Defence of the Ancients 2: volvo pls

[Zerviscos]

Your farm shouldn't be contested much though though unless you're losing your lane/missing last hits for no reason.
Like, what's an off laner going to do to you in the safe lane?
And if you're being camped by the opposing mid, that should mean that your mid wins since they should have a huge exp/gold advantage over the enemy mid.

Pub games. Not everything can happen ideally for you and your team. 15 mins is still considered the average by most people even in the competitive scene, even if you consider it poorly farmed. Even Mercale managed to snag a Fury at the 15 min mark. Even KotlGuy and Maut commented that a 12 min Fury is the practical ideal average in the Pro Scene.

[Amraphenson]

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/959125147 / http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/962935810 I did mediocre these games and I had a battlefury/poorman's/boots at 12.

the point isn't 'oh fifteen is the average dw about it', it's that for the item to be really worth it you need to nab it at like 12. Otherwise you should grab some other item and stop building the battlefury.

[Zerviscos]

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/959125147 / http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/962935810 I did mediocre these games and I had a battlefury/poorman's/boots at 12.

the point isn't 'oh fifteen is the average dw about it', it's that for the item to be really worth it you need to nab it at like 12. Otherwise you should grab some other item and stop building the battlefury.

I also do mediocore on my PA. And I still get 12-13 mins Fury on PA with Phase and Poor Man's.

Battlefury's effectiveness isn't as diminishing until it enters the middle game. That's why 15 mins average is still considered good. Even above 12 mins, if you can still build Fury before 20 mins, it's fine.

It's like saying people who build Recovery Midas after 12-15 mins are bad, when it actually isn't, considering the type of match they're playing.
You can still catch up. You're playing a carry for the late game.

I have a friend whose 5.3k MMR, and one of the Top 100 Naga Siren Players in the world(61st), even he considers a 15 min fury good.
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/101777286
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/naga-siren/players

[Amraphenson]

dormio was like 32nd legion commander a few weeks ago.
let me say this differently then: if I knew absolutely for sure that I wasn't finishing a battle fury by 15, I wouldn't start it.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I also entered top 100 Oracles apparently.
:derp:

[Helepolis]

This is one of the reasons I don't play carry role because I know all the pro or average farming times will be missed and thus being a burden on team. That aside, I don't find carry role interesting + I've also stopped playing "serious" support long long ago because no matter which counter/useful support I picked, people didn't sync proper or kept on whining about every single thing.

Hence I went Brogre Magi for the last 193 games in All Dicks. He is also fun because he only has skill shots.


I respect the people trying hard to be w/e MMR / ranking but I'll take it easy. I think. I hope. I guess.

[Pesco]

Hele just stop having fun.

Get your battlefury at 30 minutes and not give a firetruck

[Helepolis]

Battlefury E maxed Ogre? Does that even work?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Does that even work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZobqKSSGPw

[Helepolis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZobqKSSGPw

lol the refresher Sunder.

[Zerviscos]

let me say this differently then: if I knew absolutely for sure that I wasn't finishing a battle fury by 15, I wouldn't start it.

Well that was the point. If someone doesn't have atleast some parts of a fury by 10 mins. Then clearly he's gapped, and should just skip it.

Since we were on the topic of battle fury. I think this is appropriate.
Other than increased GPM, cleave is nice too in clashes, don't you think? [Around 1:50]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKV6wwAXh-U

This was practically a base race. I dunno if the latter team was doing the same.
I nearly lost all hope in that game, especially defending without PL. Then two of the PRNDG Gods, namely PA and Ogre comes through.

Edit: Why I bought Yasha, was because I know I can't get an Abyssal or Satanic in time. I had 4k Gold before I bought back. Buyback was 1.7k, so I had one chance to defend, which made me buy a Yasha so I could atleast use my reserve gold for one last defend. If I won that, I would transition it to either Manta, or SnY. Manta is the better option for the game...but hey, just end the game ASAP.

[Bardiche]

Early:
1. Quelling Blade
2. Some tangos
3. A Stout shield
Decent early farm:
Core:
1. Phase Boots
2. Battlefury[You need it at around 13 mins at the least, if you didn't prioritize Phase Boots, or got a good early farm. 15 mins average(This is AM's max), and 20 mins max. Beyond that you're pretty much underfarmed].
3. Dominator
4. BKB

Situational/Extension
5. Skull Basher
6a. MKB
6b. Butterfly(Diminishing Evasion stack, but the new B.Fly can give you movespeed)
6c. Vladimir over Dominator
6c1. Desolator if you got Vladimir over Dominator

Luxury
5l. Abyssal Blade
3l. Satanic
1l. Boots of Travel
Contested farm/Gapped
Core:
1. Phase Boots
2. Dominator
3. BKB
4. Skull Basher

Situational/Extension
5a. Butterfly
5b. Assault Cuirass
6. MKB

Luxury
4l. Abyssal Blade
2l. Satanic
1l. Boots of Travel
Basically when I'm gapped, I take out fury, and get straight to what I can actually use to clash.

Why Phase over Threads? Simply put, mobility and damage. You last hit better with the dmg, and higher crit dmg. While threads give you bonus stats, and atk speed, the PRD on PA's ult, you rely more on Phantom Strike than the actually dps that threads give. You need mobility, to chase, to flee, and to walk(run) faster from point A to point B. Also Phasing isn't a bad thing.

That's my build. I dunno what the others do with theirs.

Followed this advice. Definitely helped me out by not being a noob with a 30-min Battlefury. Thanks, now I can feel competent. I also followed Amra's advice of not starting Battlefury if I know I won't finish it by 15 minutes, and despite feeding early to Bristleback/Sand King tagteam, I managed to carry the team late after Axe and Earth Spirit carried early. \o/

[Zerviscos]

Followed this advice. Definitely helped me out by not being a noob with a 30-min Battlefury. Thanks, now I can feel competent. I also followed Amra's advice of not starting Battlefury if I know I won't finish it by 15 minutes, and despite feeding early to Bristleback/Sand King tagteam, I managed to carry the team late after Axe and Earth Spirit carried early. \o/

Recovery Battlefury isn't bad, and can still be substantial. Pretty much the same reason for Recovery Midas.
There's only 2 things to consider if you're going for it:
1. Parts you have.
If you got a good farm from lane, and already have some parts of the fury(not just one), but was somehow ganked multiple times, or the lane just got hard for you to continue. You have a choice to sway away from the build entirely, sell the parts, or continue the fury in either another time(build core first, even if you have the Battlefury parts. Try to clash with team, and build the Fury even after 20 mins if you have the money, just before 25 mins.) if you can, or go straight for a recovery(before 20 mins).

2. Current Situation of the game.
If you think you can still shoot for a recovery Battlefury before 20 mins, and know you can and need the farm, then go for it. This is only viable if your enemy doesn't push out nor gank much, or if you know the situation of your team vs them can handle making space for you for the late game.

Recovery Battlefury is good since it still is before the mid-game, where you'll be needing so much farm. Since you're shooting for late game, fury gives you the increased GPM, since you're practically clearing your jungle with ease. Just don't try to build it if you really can't...From my experience, PA is one of the slowest farming hard carries in the game.

I had loads of matches where I built 18-19 min Fury. Still managed to catch up to a fully early free-farmed enemy carry.
This is one of those.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1068639927

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Amra showing off his professional mana management skills. Not that it mattered.

[Bardiche]

No Diretide, no Frostivus, and no New Bloom gamemode.

DOTA is dead.

[Amraphenson]

new bloom's fucking chinese new year dude calm your ogre titties

[Bardiche]

new bloom's fucking chinese new year dude calm your ogre titties

I know what New Bloom is, but they announced on the website they won't develop a game mode for it like they did last year. 8(

[Dr Rawr]

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1075219012

Does anyone else find really close games to be fun?

[Bardiche]

I prefer dominating.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I prefer dominating.

You call that puny 25k exp lead "dominating"?

[Bardiche]

You call that puny 25k exp lead "dominating"?

We took 14 minutes less to seal the deal, so regardless of XP difference, we still dominated harder. :V

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

We took 14 minutes less to seal the deal, so regardless of XP difference, we still dominated harder. :V

If you want fast ancient destruction...
Or even faster.

[Zerviscos]

If you want fast ancient destruction...
Or even faster.

How about a game where you managed to mega creeps an Enemy team, and still managed to lose 'cause Cleave is so OP. Not just 1 cleave, but double cleave.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1075261014

We had the whole map to ourselves, but the exp wasn't enough. Nor was the gold. It was at that point of the game where megas are the enemies' gold and xp, while we stick to the jungle, and can't even get their creeps. That's why they exceeded both xpm and gpm.

[Bardiche]

>three Rapiers
wow

[PX]

>Meepo has 3 eblades
>0 Hexes on team

I wonder why you lost :/

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

How about a game where you managed to mega creeps an Enemy team, and still managed to lose 'cause Cleave is so OP. Not just 1 cleave, but double cleave.

I had the reverse happen. The enemy team got mega creeps by the 40 minute mark. 50 minutes of mega creeps later, we won.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/630344128

[Zerviscos]

>Meepo has 3 eblades
>0 Hexes on team

I wonder why you lost :/

We used to had Hex(3 of us, Mirana, Meepo, and me), sold it to transition to DPS carries, get BKBs and stuff. Since we can't even last 4 secs against Sven and PA's cleave. They BKB, we instantly get killed. We can't initiate first too or get a Ghost Scepter, since it's far too late in the game where an Invoker just massively counters everyone.

About Meepo's eblades. You wouldn't believe how much Agi he has on all Meepos. It gives 200+ Dmg per .50 secs on every Meepo, which effectively gives him 2000+ DPS and around ?65% Physical Resistance. We were already losing around 30 - 40 mins when their carries had enough farm. Meepo was just ratting. He can actually rat the base with backdoor protection. The problem is, Sven wouldn't leave the base at all, which practically counters Meepo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kDsRcUqtgM

Now if only MKB Meepo affects all Meepos.

TBH though, the Meepo is fast and good. Can Poof before Blink Dagger instead of usual Blink Dagger then Poof.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qLIG75FPDU

I had the reverse happen. The enemy team got mega creeps by the 40 minute mark. 50 minutes of mega creeps later, we won.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/630344128

Cleave too stronk.

[PX]

How about. How about this. You stay far away from each other. So that he can't cleave anyone? Then Hex him the instant bkb ends. Also get force/Blink so you can kite them around

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

TBH though, the Meepo is fast and good. Can Poof before Blink Dagger instead of usual Blink Dagger then Poof.

Uh, isn't this normal? Who the fuck blinks, then poofs?

[Zerviscos]

How about. How about this. You stay far away from each other. So that he can't cleave anyone? Then Hex him the instant bkb ends. Also get force/Blink so you can kite them around

If it was that easy, we wouldn't have lost. I told you, Invoker is at that point where he just completely counters everyone. Even if we perma hex Sven, we have to deal with PA. In this game PA > AM. We were going for BKB so we could atleast not get stunned nor disabled, so we can just disengage a fight. We just can't do it since neuts xp and g is not giving that out much anymore since all of us needs it. It's at that point where mega creeps always coming in your base gives you gold advantage.

If we had a Centaur ult we could disengage and kite easy.

Uh, isn't this normal? Who the fuck blinks, then poofs?

Mostly everyone in the average scene as far as I'm seeing most Meepo plays in matches. You know, blink, earthbind, then poof, then earthbind, geostrike, etc.

What I like about his Meepo is the rat. Everything else is normal. Except the fact he just buys Eths whenever he likes.