Author Topic: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer  (Read 195654 times)

Drake

  • *
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #870 on: June 17, 2015, 04:28:16 AM »
To those who have read ZUN's writing in Japanese, what's his writing style like? Specifically in DiPP C62/3, IN stage titles and descriptions, IN music comments, CiLR and greetings/introductions. (I'll be fine with just a (not-too-)general statement though.)

I like the translations on the wiki, but I don't know how much reflects his actual tone versus the translators' own wording.

It would be a while before I can read them myself, so satisfying my curiosity will be much appreciated.

I have two more to ask:
- Did ZUN say anything about DiPP C62's story being solvable, like Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None? Or is it simply a hoax?
- We learnt from a recent interview that ZUN composes music before he creates the stages/bosses. Does he compose based on a title he has in mind, or does he name a piece after finishing it?
The DiPP writing style doesn't actually seem very similar to works after PCB-ish. ZUN kind of went into this pseudo-poet phase where he thought it would be cool for everything to sound super mysterious and deep, and he sort of grew out of it as he started to seriously worldbuild. He seems to have read a lot of books around this time and as you know he became a bit infatuated with Agatha Christie. This really affected his writing style and is kind of what characterizes the uber-quirky interactions in EoSD and PCB. And CoLA to a lesser extent. I think some of this style got infused into Rinnosuke's character a bit. The difference between DiPP/EoSD and CiLR is pretty gigantic -- by the time of CiLR he refined a lot of ideas and wrote way more formally, phrasing choices and references being much more deliberate. And then music comments are usually more casual than his regular blog writing.

Whenever I write on the wiki I try to find tone and match it, but it's hard. Some works get it better than others, and that might be purely because of how easily things translate. Like just in PCB's music comments, there's "和風に和風に" which is translated as "in a Japanese style", losing the repetition and the double-meaning of 和風. The next line is "この曲、「これから弾幕の嵐!」って雰囲気を完全に削ぎます", which conveys an excited phrase that the player is usually supposed to think to themselves before a danmaku, but this song erases all traces of that feeling and calms you down. This is then translated as "This song completely removes any hint of the upcoming storm of danmaku". Like, there are quite a lot of these translations, especially in earlier works, that don't communicate the same kind of feeling as the original and can end up just plain wrong on examination. But it's really case-by-case.


As far as DiPP goes, nobody knows. If he had said anything about it the story might be unveiled as a sham or just be solved, but my gut says that if you were to ask him today, he would say not to try to interpret it too deeply, subtly implying that it never had any meaning. But that could just be my biases showing, since I'm becoming increasingly convinced it was never meant to be an actual mystery, but rather just a nonsense story told as though it were one.

I'm not sure if he's said anything about music titles, but I could easily see it being both. He starts more with a vague feeling and concept first, then writes music, then fleshes out the game around it. Even if he used to start purely with music and just wrote stuff around it, he isn't as whimsical about it anymore. I would say he almost certainly does a ton of research into figuring out what characters he wants to build and the scenario he wants to write, then writes music around those concepts, with a title coming before or after depending on inspiration. The actual game content for sure comes last, though.

For example, Cinderella Cage ~ Kagome-Kagome was almost definitely a title first, then music. He fit that title around the story of Kaguya and used Eientei to represent the Cinderella cage. Meanwhile, he probably also knew that he would incorporate Kagome Kagome into the theme itself. It's similar with a lot of themes; you can see in the music comments when he says "I wanted to write a song like X", and in these cases the titles probably came first (although maybe not entirely formed). But some titles are clearly afterthoughts, like "The Sealed-Away Youkai ~ Lost Place". A lot of the X ~ Y titles feel that way.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 05:11:22 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Drake

  • *
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #871 on: June 17, 2015, 11:26:18 AM »
Although this forum isn't affiliated with touhouwiki, I'm looking for some suggestions/consensus on a potential change.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Touhou_Wiki#Proposal:_Change_the_format_of_title_translations

Basically, the wiki currently formats the game titles in their main articles like this:
Touhou Fuujinroku ~ Mountain of Faith (東方風神録 ~ Mountain of Faith, lit. "Eastern Wind God Chronicles")
Prime32 made the point that people don't really know about the games' actual titles, either not being aware of them or thinking that they actually translate to the subtitles. Besides just not knowing the full title, there's the slight problem of people not recognizing SSiB, CiLR and Inaba are a collection. The Three Fairies manga don't seem to have this problem though.

Anyways, my suggestion was to use rubytext over the main title to display its meaning, rather than awkwardly have it off to the side as it currently is, like this:
            Wind God Chronicles
Touhou Fuujinroku ~ Mountain of Faith (東方風神録 ~ Mountain of Faith)

The questions are 1) should we even bother with this change; and 2) does this method make sense? People have been receptive on the wiki so far but this is in the context already assuming it'll get changed, so I'm looking for just a few more opinions. It isn't even that big of a deal but yeah.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 11:17:13 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #872 on: June 17, 2015, 12:01:19 PM »
I'm actually fine with how it's written now, but if there is going to be a change i'd say to put the translated part right above the japanese, adding "eastern" since even now "Touhou" is considered part of the title, so you'd have something like
Eastern Wind God Chronicles
Touhou Fuujinroku ~ Mountain of Faith


Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #873 on: June 17, 2015, 05:37:48 PM »
Adding the "eastern" just confuses the issue more, since it clearly isn't meant to have any particular meaning other than identifying it as part of the series. Touhou means Touhou Project, not Eastern.

PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #874 on: June 17, 2015, 06:32:31 PM »
Yeah, thinking about it, it would probably confuse more.
Still, i always assumed "touhou" (eastern) had the double meaning of both indicating that it's part of the series, and to specify that is something in/from the east, even if it's obvious. So the "Palace of Earth Spirits" is specifically in the east, and so on.
I know, i'm overthinking it :V


Kaizaki

  • Pillager
  • I'm feeling lucky
    • GitHub
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #875 on: June 17, 2015, 06:37:42 PM »
Thank you for the awesome response, Drake!

Mеа

  • catnapping
  • three dots connect to rectangles
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #876 on: June 17, 2015, 10:37:08 PM »
Does anyone know what Koishi's Last Remote theme is named for?
Naked expression; purple raspberry flavour

Drake

  • *
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #877 on: June 18, 2015, 12:28:44 AM »
Quote
ZUN: It feels like it's rushing you along for some reason, but there's no real reason to hurry, and everyone's acting carefree.
Even Reimu can't compete with the Moriya Shrine crowd in terms of not having a care in the world. The song title has no relation to a certain shooting game.
"Not Last Resort", apparently.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Mеа

  • catnapping
  • three dots connect to rectangles
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #878 on: June 18, 2015, 05:10:00 AM »
"Not Last Resort", apparently.
Thanks... but mwaah that's disappointing
Naked expression; purple raspberry flavour

Abraham Lincoln

  • Mendelssohn for President 2016
  • Make Bach Great Again!
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #879 on: June 18, 2015, 01:06:28 PM »
Is it possible for someone from the outside world to slip past the border into Gensokyo via locations like Hell, etc?

Also, is it true that any youkai outsider that enters Gensokyo will have knowledge of Spell Cards and the Spell Card Rules automatically imprinted on them? I've seen this mentioned before in Riverbed Soul Saver.

Sagus

  • Spin, Hina, spin
  • Spin like there's no tomorrow
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #880 on: June 18, 2015, 01:19:08 PM »
Is it possible for someone from the outside world to slip past the border into Gensokyo via locations like Hell, etc?
Probably. Tenshi entered Gensokyo from Heaven, after all.
Although I imagine it'd be harder this way.

Also, is it true that any youkai outsider that enters Gensokyo will have knowledge of Spell Cards and the Spell Card Rules automatically imprinted on them? I've seen this mentioned before in Riverbed Soul Saver.
That's just a theory, nothing of the sort is explicitly said or implied in canon, afaik.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 01:20:52 PM by Sagus »
Peketo's Drawing Stuffs
Despite the name, it's mostly 3D models.

My fanfics.

PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #881 on: June 18, 2015, 01:40:34 PM »


Also, is it true that any youkai outsider that enters Gensokyo will have knowledge of Spell Cards and the Spell Card Rules automatically imprinted on them? I've seen this mentioned before in Riverbed Soul Saver.
I don't think so, in FS the snake youkai was taught about Gensokyo's rules by Mamizou.
As for the others, the Moriya's could have learned the rules from the Tengu when they went on the mountain, or from Yukari/Ran if the Yakumo are the ones deciding who enters Gensokyo. Mamizou had Nue. Miko and Futo probably had Seiga.
Another explanation could be that the heroines explain the rules just like they did with Yorihime, and that part of the dialogue is omitted because it'd look weird.

Should also be noted that not every battle is a SC battle. LoLK has spell-card-like named attacks, but it seems they aren't actually spell cards, since the whole point of LoLK and Eirin's drug is not being hit even once because it would mean death.

Probably. Tenshi entered Gensokyo from Heaven, after all.
Although I imagine it'd be harder this way.

But isn't Heaven still inside the barrier like the Lunar Capital? When the humans and youkai went to heaven to fight Tenshi, it didn't seem they were outisde Gensokyo, and ULiL shows that is pretty much impossible to exit/enter Gensokyo without proper methods.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #882 on: June 18, 2015, 02:05:21 PM »
I don't think so, in FS the snake youkai was taught about Gensokyo's rules by Mamizou.
As for the others, the Moriya's could have learned the rules from the Tengu when they went on the mountain, or from Yukari/Ran if the Yakumo are the ones deciding who enters Gensokyo. Mamizou had Nue. Miko and Futo probably had Seiga.
Another explanation could be that the heroines explain they rules just like they did with Yorihime, and that part of the dialogue is omitted because it'd look weird.
Should also be noted that not every battle is a SC battle. LoLK has spell-card-like named attacks, but it seems they aren't actually spell cards, since the whole point of LoLK and Eirin's drug is not being hit even once because it would mean death.

I didn't know that... so it's entirely possible that a lot of the "spellcard" battles we've seen are really just ordinary battles with named attacks. IN, SA, and UFO make a lot more sense that way.

But isn't Heaven still inside the barrier like the Lunar Capital? When the humans and youkai went to heaven to fight Tenshi, it didn't seem they were outisde Gensokyo, and ULiL shows that is pretty much impossible to exit/enter Gensokyo without proper methods.

Gensokyo isn't one of a kind. The Lunar Capital has it's own Barrier that's similar to but seperate from the Hakurei Barrier. IIRC Gensokyo, being a fantasy land, can connect to any other land that's fallen into fantasy (such as Heaven, Hell, Makai, and the Lunar Capital), and those lands can connect to Gensokyo. I'd assume that means they can connect to each other as well. Sumireko was having trouble because she was trying to go from reality into fantasy, which is very difficult.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 02:20:34 PM by TresserT »
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

Drake

  • *
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #883 on: June 18, 2015, 02:13:56 PM »
Should also be noted that not every battle is a SC battle. LoLK has spell-card-like named attacks, but it seems they aren't actually spell cards, since the whole point of LoLK and Eirin's drug is not being hit even once because it would mean death.
Well, in Ringo's dialogue it's noted that the way they're fighting is also coincidentally similar to spell card duels. They might? still be in danger, but it seems the Ultramarine Orb medicine is to assure they don't lose, not that they don't die. Reisen uses it too, after all.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #884 on: June 18, 2015, 02:36:25 PM »
Well, in Ringo's dialogue it's noted that the way they're fighting is also coincidentally similar to spell card duels. They might? still be in danger, but it seems the Ultramarine Orb medicine is to assure they don't lose, not that they don't die. Reisen uses it too, after all.
Hm, to Reimu she says
Quote
Stand in awe of the moon's style of fighting,
where not even taking a single hit is allowed!
while in Marisa's scenario
Quote
Earthlings, who are allowed to get hit,
cannot possibly understand our hard work!
So it's basically the Moon's "not taking a single hit" VS Gensokyo's "you can get hit because you won't die". Doesn't it mean they are actually different things? 
Also, Reimu's profile says that "this time there's no room for error". And it makes sense, because taking into account the whole context of lunarians purifying earth, there's no reason for them to use non-lethal attacks against earthlings. Maybe the full game will reveal something that clears out things.

Suspicious person

  • Just a humble wanderer
  • How suspicious~
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #885 on: June 18, 2015, 02:54:26 PM »
Is it possible for someone from the outside world to slip past the border into Gensokyo via locations like Hell, etc?
But isn't Heaven still inside the barrier like the Lunar Capital?
The barrier isolates Gensokyo from the outside world, and it's still possible to go in various locations from Gensokyo. Getting in Gensokyo from places like heaven or hell works the same way Gensokyan folks going there, so entering from other locations is pretty much entering through the back door.

Getting into the other locations is another matter, but their relationship with the outside world do not work the same as Gensokyo : for the netherworld, Renko once showed Merry a pictuare of the netherworld where they could see the outside world, and there was another time where Yuyuko kinda watched them in the outside world. There was a peculiar time in the night where it was supposedly possible to get into the netherworld but I don't remember it : maybe getting in these places follow some conditions. Then again, even if some random human manages to end in these locations in one way or another, nothing says he / she'll manage to reach Gensokyo by just walking there, so that's that.

There still should be locations where it won't be possible to get into Gensokyo, like satellite TORIFUNE, though...


PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #886 on: June 18, 2015, 03:13:00 PM »
...
It seems I really need to read Maribel and Renko stuff again :V

Sagus

  • Spin, Hina, spin
  • Spin like there's no tomorrow
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #887 on: June 18, 2015, 03:50:43 PM »
The barrier isolates Gensokyo from the outside world, and it's still possible to go in various locations from Gensokyo. Getting in Gensokyo from places like heaven or hell works the same way Gensokyan folks going there, so entering from other locations is pretty much entering through the back door.
Also sometimes it's like blowing up a wall to make your own backdoor. Like with how Yuyuko had to rip a hole between Gensokyo and the Netherworld herself to be able to steal spring from there.
Peketo's Drawing Stuffs
Despite the name, it's mostly 3D models.

My fanfics.

CyberAngel

  • Retired
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #888 on: June 18, 2015, 04:48:31 PM »
there's no reason for them to use non-lethal attacks against earthlings.

The jump of logic from "not allowed to be hit" to this is a bit too much. Maybe they DO have rules similar to danmaku on the Moon, except that you don't have any extra lives, and since heroines go to the moon, they'd have to play by those rules. Honestly, suddenly having actually lethal battles feels like going against the spirit of Touhou.

If you're not convinced, there's still no reason for attacks to be lethal. Maybe they're using paralyzing bullets :)

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #889 on: June 18, 2015, 05:08:52 PM »
The jump of logic from "not allowed to be hit" to this is a bit too much. Maybe they DO have rules similar to danmaku on the Moon, except that you don't have any extra lives, and since heroines go to the moon, they'd have to play by those rules. Honestly, suddenly having actually lethal battles feels like going against the spirit of Touhou.

If you're not convinced, there's still no reason for attacks to be lethal. Maybe they're using paralyzing bullets :)

I think it's pretty strongly implied that the Lunarians came here to kill us... or purify us in their words. From the prologue:
Quote
---The metallic spider's march of purification cannot be stopped.
The trees wither before one's eyes. Not one blade of grass was left in the spider's tracks.
When Gensokyo is completely purified, it will be transformed into a perfect world.

Into a beautiful planet with no life on it...
I guess it's possible that the danmaku is non-lethal, but they're already trying to purify us with the spider and they say you can't get hit even once, so it's not much of a jump to say the danmaku will kill the player as well.

EDIT: On the other hand, it is a bit hard to believe the Lunarians would dirty their hands with such casual killing, what with the whole impurity thing. On the other other hand, we haven't actually fought any Lunarians yet.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 05:15:54 PM by TresserT »
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #890 on: June 19, 2015, 05:06:17 AM »
Being careful of impurity is really on the moon. Lunarians have no issues killing people outside of the moon. Yorihime killed that crow in Silent Sinner in Blue and Toyohime threatened to level the forest. There is also that instance where they tried to execute Kaguya, but couldn't.

Quote
Also, is it true that any youkai outsider that enters Gensokyo will have knowledge of Spell Cards and the Spell Card Rules automatically imprinted on them? I've seen this mentioned before in Riverbed Soul Saver.

No mention of this, but this seems very unlikely. Silent Sinner in Blue heavily implies you need to tell your opponent what spell card rules are. And they don't necessarily have to follow it either.

Luna Scarlet

  • Eternal Scarlet Moon
  • Red Crimson Vermilion Scarlet, Same but Different.
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #891 on: June 25, 2015, 09:50:36 AM »
Im currently looking for a manga...

Its about Sakuya was just a orphan girl in the outside world stealing stuff by stopping time...
Later on she was found by Yukari and was sent to SDM...
There she was trained to be a maid by Remilia...

Tnx for the answer...

Also, im still looking for mangas of this kind...
Where the characters back story has been explained... like Rumia's Re:Birthday...

EDIT: Reason I posted it apart from the Q&A thread is that im looking for that just one answer and still going to continue to look for one...
If I violated any rules in this thread... pls spare me...  :ohdear:

<Tengukami> Yeah, "looking for just that one answer", or looking for multiple answers, is what this thread is for. Merged.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 10:28:40 AM by Tengukami »

The Scarlet Moon shines beautifully at the darkness of the sky.
Worry not what you have lost, Cherish what you have gained.

PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #892 on: June 25, 2015, 11:13:37 AM »
Would it be this one, Luna?
[nsfw]http://g.e-hentai.org/g/334251/f6d7452807/[/nsfw]

« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 11:25:21 AM by Tengukami »

Luna Scarlet

  • Eternal Scarlet Moon
  • Red Crimson Vermilion Scarlet, Same but Different.
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #893 on: June 26, 2015, 03:19:51 AM »
tnx... thats exactly what im looking for...

Still, requesting for more of the same type...
where there backstories has been explained...
like how did they became a youkai or how did they end up in gensokyo or there dark past explained...  :3

The Scarlet Moon shines beautifully at the darkness of the sky.
Worry not what you have lost, Cherish what you have gained.

Abraham Lincoln

  • Mendelssohn for President 2016
  • Make Bach Great Again!
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #894 on: June 28, 2015, 04:20:22 AM »
When does ZUN usually release the jewel case of a Touhou game before its official full release?

Drake

  • *
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #895 on: June 28, 2015, 05:22:35 PM »
Ranges from two weeks to like a few days before. It's really just about the same time as any other circle announces their event work.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Luna Scarlet

  • Eternal Scarlet Moon
  • Red Crimson Vermilion Scarlet, Same but Different.
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #896 on: July 03, 2015, 11:25:27 AM »
Im looking for another manga again...
This time is about Marisa...

Marisa has awaken into a distant future where Alice and Patchy has mistaken her in turning into a Youkai...
At that time, there was already another generation Hakurei Shrine Maiden where she cant fly...
Also, Marisa have known the somewhere in the past, Reimu has gone absolute destruction to Youkai including the good ones...
So then Marisa trained in order to defeat Reimu, after the battle, Marisa accepted her fate and turned to Mima and also have repeat process...
Which is sending the current Marisa into the future...

Anyone know what title does this manga is...
Any answer would be nice... :)

The Scarlet Moon shines beautifully at the darkness of the sky.
Worry not what you have lost, Cherish what you have gained.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #897 on: July 03, 2015, 01:36:06 PM »
That would be the Jasper Star series from the circle, Hashiya.

Luna Scarlet

  • Eternal Scarlet Moon
  • Red Crimson Vermilion Scarlet, Same but Different.
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #898 on: July 04, 2015, 11:12:27 AM »
Tnx for answering... :3

Im currently reading the that manga now... tnx... :D

Now, im looking for a manga again...
Im not looking for a specific kind of manga this time...
Im now looking for suggestions...

The manga is about the outside world and gensokyo...
It can be either the Touhou cast is or are in the outside world...
Or Maribel and Renko are in gensokyo...

Any related answers are welcome... :)

The Scarlet Moon shines beautifully at the darkness of the sky.
Worry not what you have lost, Cherish what you have gained.

Quwanti

  • Pixel stuff
Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #899 on: July 05, 2015, 01:19:01 AM »
Not sure how to finds stuff like this, so I'm wondering:
Recently, the Minecraft con got the Guiness World record for largest ever for a single video game, which made me wonder; how big is Reitaisai? How many people attendee this convention?

(Since Touhou isn't a "single video game" I doubt it fits that specific record, but I think it's still interesting to see those numbers)