Author Topic: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer  (Read 195662 times)

Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #810 on: May 28, 2015, 04:11:14 AM »
Pretty good chance the human is going to be dead. Hell is a dangerous place for powerless people after all.
What if the human is a magician, say, somebody like Marisa or Sumireko? Is it possible for them to somehow talk the sinners' souls into doing their bidding?

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #811 on: May 28, 2015, 04:15:25 AM »
What if the human is a magician, say, somebody like Marisa or Sumireko? Is it possible for them to somehow talk the sinners' souls into doing their bidding?

Not sure, it might be possible. I don't think Marisa's been able to do it. It seems like only a few people can actually communicate with the dead souls.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #812 on: May 28, 2015, 08:24:41 AM »
I doubt a magician could do it. A Touhou magician is more like a scientist, if magic was a science. Since talking to souls is something only super-special people can do, apparently, it doesn't make any sense for a magician to be able to, since they're mostly just "normal" people who use magic like a tool. Even an expert in souls like Alice probably couldn't talk to them, for the same reason that a particle physicist can't talk to atoms.

However, Sumireko isn't a magician, she's an ESPer. We haven't really seen her use much in the way of telepathy or the like (unless you count her dream projections), but speaking with ghosts is one of the more common jobs for psychics. So that seems plausible to me. ...Seriously though, Sumireko's not a magician like Marisa or Patchouli. She's closer to Sakuya, actually, in that she just has an illusionist theme and her own innate powers. Please spread the word since I've seen this misconception pop up before.

Other characters who actually can talk to souls include Orin and maybe shrine maidens, based on various stuff in FS.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #813 on: May 28, 2015, 10:11:58 AM »
There's also Komachi, Shiki, probably even Yuyuko and Youmu. But this is expected since they mostly deal with deceased souls.
I'm not sure about Yukari, but seeing how she could talk to Luna Child directly in her mind, there's a big chance of her being able to use telepathy.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #814 on: May 28, 2015, 04:45:52 PM »
There's also Komachi, Shiki, probably even Yuyuko and Youmu.
Yuyuko's  job is managing the Netherworld, and since she herself is a ghost, it'd be very unlikely for her not to be able to talk to spirits.

I doubt a magician could do it. A Touhou magician is more like a scientist, if magic was a science.
There could be some specialization of magic that allows a magician to talk to spirits, I guess. Not that it has been hinted at, but there does seem to be a pretty large variety of specializations under the magic category (like there is to science, after all)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 08:02:00 PM by Sagus »
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Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #815 on: May 31, 2015, 04:00:23 AM »
Can Seija befriend another amanojaku?

Sagus

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #816 on: May 31, 2015, 05:13:34 AM »
Since she's the only amanojaku we have seen so far, we dont really have a way to answer this question with canon info.

Personally, though, I dont think amanojakus in general can befriend anyone. Making enemies would probably be much more preferable for creatures like them, anyway. Seija, for one, seems to find it just fine to have all of Gensokyo pissed off at her.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 05:16:11 AM by Sagus »
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #817 on: May 31, 2015, 05:16:10 AM »
Yeah, we can't say anything for sure either way, but allying themselves with like-minded people seems antithetical to what it means to be contrarian.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #818 on: May 31, 2015, 06:28:43 PM »
At the end of chapter 4 of Cage in Lunatic Runagate, Moukou plans to climb Youkai Mountain some day and speak with Iwanagahime, the goddess of immortality. Do we know if she ever does? Does Kanako know that there's another goddess on the mountain?

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #819 on: May 31, 2015, 06:55:05 PM »
At the end of chapter 4 of Cage in Lunatic Runagate, Moukou plans to climb Youkai Mountain some day and speak with Iwanagahime, the goddess of immortality. Do we know if she ever does?
We don't know if she ever went there or not.

Does Kanako know that there's another goddess on the mountain?
Probably, but it's not like Iwanagahime ever really does anything so...
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #820 on: June 01, 2015, 01:19:19 AM »
There are billions of gods, all over the place. No one really keeps track of them all. Heck, Hina and the Akis already seem to be hanging out on the mountain in MoF, and Kanako doesn't express any interest in this one way or another. Gods just aren't really all that big a deal unless you need something in particular.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #821 on: June 04, 2015, 10:45:01 PM »
To those who have read ZUN's writing in Japanese, what's his writing style like? Specifically in DiPP C62/3, IN stage titles and descriptions, IN music comments, CiLR and greetings/introductions. (I'll be fine with a (not-too-)general statement though.)

I like the translations on the wiki, but I don't know how much reflects his actual tone versus the translators' own wording.

It would be a while before I can read them myself, so satisfying my curiosity will be much appreciated.

Cheers!

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #822 on: June 05, 2015, 04:11:26 AM »
Why did Eirin kill the emissaries? I understand that she wanted to save Kaguya, but it still doesn't justify killing them, when they were coming in peace, it just seems unnecessarily cruel to me.
So yeah, why did she kill those rabbits when she didn't need to?
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #823 on: June 05, 2015, 04:19:35 AM »
Back then, Eirin was pretty ruthless. Those emissaries could be Lunarians or they could be rabbits, it doesn't really matter, Eirin is paranoid like that. As the saying goes, dead people tell no tales.
She mellowed out only fairly recently after Kaguya lifted her Eternity spell over Eientei.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #824 on: June 05, 2015, 05:05:40 AM »
Why did Eirin kill the emissaries? I understand that she wanted to save Kaguya, but it still doesn't justify killing them, when they were coming in peace, it just seems unnecessarily cruel to me.
So yeah, why did she kill those rabbits when she didn't need to?
As Starxsword said, Eirin was fairly ruthless before the centuries of hiding. She doesn't really "justify" anything. Moreover the Lunarians already think of the rabbits as disposable anyways, so dispatching the other emissaries isn't a stretch. She even still suggests that as a possibility in CiLR 1 when Rei'sen comes down.

To note though, CiLR never says the emissaries with Eirin were murdered. It only seems to be mentioned in IN that they were killed -- in fact, in CiLR, it says they were "deceived" or "tricked" in Eirin's narrative, suggesting this might have been changed (unless the "deception" is Eirin turning on them, I guess). Though, the couple that took care of Kaguya still are said to have refused the Hourai Elixir and later """passed away""", leading to the Emperor ending up with the Elixir and throwing it away (and Mokou eventually consuming it).

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #825 on: June 06, 2015, 09:15:46 AM »
Hieda no Akyuu have the ability to "not forget anything she sees". What would happen if she met Koishi Komeiji? Could she remember her afterwards? Also, is her ability limited to the things she "can see", meaning that she would need to be able to perceive Koishi first, as otherwise they would have no use at all?  ;)

I wonder if they ever officially met and if not, what does fandom say about this matter =)

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #826 on: June 06, 2015, 01:15:41 PM »
The comments on the spell cards descriptions, except those on IN/DS/StB and the fighters, are all unofficial, right?

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #827 on: June 06, 2015, 01:46:34 PM »
Hieda no Akyuu have the ability to "not forget anything she sees". What would happen if she met Koishi Komeiji? Could she remember her afterwards? Also, is her ability limited to the things she "can see", meaning that she would need to be able to perceive Koishi first, as otherwise they would have no use at all?  ;)

I wonder if they ever officially met and if not, what does fandom say about this matter =)

She did write an article about her, you know. Judging by her second note, she didn't meet her, but would remember if she did.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #828 on: June 06, 2015, 02:00:23 PM »
The comments on the spell cards descriptions, except those on IN/DS/StB and the fighters, are all unofficial, right?
The scene titles in 14.3 are also official, if you want to count those. But yes.

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PK

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #829 on: June 06, 2015, 02:23:17 PM »
Ok, thanks.
I see someone put those comments as actual source references on the wiki anyway :V

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #830 on: June 06, 2015, 02:42:03 PM »
According to Marisa's profile she is just an ordinary magician yet she is capable of aconplishing amazing feets such as doing mid-air magic enhanced cartweels,riding her broom in the speed almost similar to Aya and firing the Master.Spark without suffering eye damage or vurbt to cinder. Is there an explanation of this an how strong is Marisa and what is her weakness.

UTW

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #831 on: June 06, 2015, 04:27:31 PM »
Ok, thanks.
I see someone put those comments as actual source references on the wiki anyway :V

Yeah to be honest those comments are relics of bygone days which have confused me and others more than once, like in this case. If it isn't an official comment or doing something like pointing out the reference in a name or strategy, I think they should be deleted. I fail to see a need for the imitation flavor text.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #832 on: June 06, 2015, 05:10:46 PM »
According to Marisa's profile she is just an ordinary magician yet she is capable of aconplishing amazing feets such as doing mid-air magic enhanced cartweels,riding her broom in the speed almost similar to Aya and firing the Master.Spark without suffering eye damage or vurbt to cinder. Is there an explanation of this an how strong is Marisa and what is her weakness.
According to Marisa's profile she is just an ordinary magician yet she is capable of aconplishing amazing feets (...)
Marisa uses magic but she is still a human. She is a self proclaimed "ordinary magician", which is not indicative of anything, as there's nothing like "ordinary magic" out there. "Ordinary magician" shouldn't mean that she can't do anything extraordinary, not that she is limited to ordinary stuff. At any rate, she is more like a laser magician...

(...)doing mid-air magic enhanced cartweels,riding her broom in the speed almost similar to Aya and firing the Master.Spark without suffering eye damage or vurbt to cinder. Is there an explanation of this an how strong is Marisa(...)
Canon doesn't give a direct explanation of the way magic generally works, so we can only speculate for this, maybe by starting from various points and speculate in a more or less far fetched way :

-In general, otherworldly source of powers, magic included, can affect people and things in some way in Touhou
-Marisa's magic stick(?) from UFO is said to be unecessary because you can use whatever magic you can already use but not get to use a new kind of magic by relying on tools
-According to Rinnosuke, the mini-hakkero holds more than enough power to reduce a mountain to cinders
-There are other occurences that are not reasonably possible in Touhou, the worst offender being the fight against Okuu in SA
-Other reasons listed among banned templates

Speculation time ! Alright, so why doesn't Marisa suffers from some kind of drawback when she uses magic ? Let's say Marisa fires Master spark : it is described as an intense magic of light and heat AND usually requires the use of the mini-hakkero. But the people you don't like you fire master spark on don't turn to cinders nor roasted meat, even though the hakkero is supposedly able to reduce whole MOUNTAINS to cinders. It can be blamed on the spellcard battles, but the super lethal attacks'll still need to be made to fit that way... anyway, it's possible (oy, this is speculation) that magical phenomon doesn't affect people the same way physical phenomon does : if you view it this way, then Marisa's magic generated light not affecting her eyesight nor her heat magic not burning herself nor roasting people like fire make some sense. Even Patchouli's elemental magic is associated with symbolism rather than shounen-ish battle convenience use, for example, her fire element is associated with change and movement instead of a blatant "TO BURN STUFF" (obviously, it's fire so it burns, but that's not the biggest focus there...), while Mokou who is NOT a magician but somehow manages to generate fire (not magical fire) can get burned by her own flames. This doesn?t mean that magic have no physical effect whatsoever since Marisa can cook with her mini-hakkero. If anything, the tools might hold some power of their own, but they?re just used as some sort of medium for magic. We?re also talking about magic related things as something completely different from supernatural stuff (since magic is the other kind of science?), which can affect physical stuff to a certain extent, like the hermit?s space powers or Futo?s flaming fire that burns everything for example.

Also, exposure to magic can affect people or things too : Marisa?s broom supposedly grows some leaves. Exposure to supernatural (ie : youkai or youma books) source of power and/or magical source of power do affect people and things in one way or another in the Touhou-verse, and it shouldn?t be too far fetched to say that being able to make use of such sources?ll give you an edge over the other people who can?t. A bit gratuitous here, but if Marisa uses magic and magic tools daily, it?d be suspicious if she somehow gets magic drawbacks from contact with anything magical (excluding accidents if these happens), not to mention all the training she supposedly does and all of her magic research or even the magic she pirated from other people and refined.

At any rate, her ability to use magic is what makes Marisa stronger (stronger than your average Joe at any rate), and her hard work play a role in this too. Anything regarding the ?why she doesn?t suffer some kind of drawback? are speculation, since we don?t have very explicit stuff from canon?

(...)what is her weakness.

Marisa is a human (stronger than your average Joe but still human), so she is obviously vulnerable to anything bad that can happen to humans like death, sickness, the lack of super regenerative ability, and since this is Touhou, maybe we can add things like misfortune too. For the more character specific weakness, it?s got to be her bold, borderline reckless personality : there are various remarks about how the way she do things could kill her someday, so yeah? also, when Marisa fires master spark and misses, you'll get a big opening.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #833 on: June 06, 2015, 05:54:19 PM »
Hieda no Akyuu have the ability to "not forget anything she sees". What would happen if she met Koishi Komeiji? Could she remember her afterwards? Also, is her ability limited to the things she "can see", meaning that she would need to be able to perceive Koishi first, as otherwise they would have no use at all?  ;)

I wonder if they ever officially met and if not, what does fandom say about this matter =)

Quoting Koishi's profile in SoPm written by Akyuu: "A youkai invisible to adults, and only visible to certain children. However, even those who played with them in their childhood will completely forget that they existed once they grow up. Has anything like that ever happened to you?(*2). (2*) Not to me"

Akyuu did stated that she didn't forgot the youkai, implying she can still remember youkais like Koishi afterwards.

PK

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #834 on: June 06, 2015, 06:39:01 PM »
-Marisa's magic stick(?) from UFO is said to be unecessary because you can use whatever magic you can already use but not get to use a new kind of magic by relying on tools
What does this even mean? I'm confused.



Speculation time ! Alright, so why doesn't Marisa suffers from some kind of drawback when she uses magic ? Let's say Marisa fires Master spark : it is described as an intense magic of light and heat AND usually requires the use of the mini-hakkero. But the people you don't like you fire master spark on don't turn to cinders nor roasted meat, even though the hakkero is supposedly able to reduce whole MOUNTAINS to cinders. It can be blamed on the spellcard battles, but the super lethal attacks'll still need to be made to fit that way... anyway, it's possible (oy, this is speculation) that magical phenomon doesn't affect people the same way physical phenomon does : if you view it this way, then Marisa's magic generated light not affecting her eyesight nor her heat magic not burning herself nor roasting people like fire make some sense.
But heat is still heat, even if it is magical, and Mokou's flames hurt her because she wraps herself in them, while the enemies don't get burned to a crisp (how can it even be non-magical fire anyway?).
We should also apply this to other supposedly lethal attacks that for some reason don't kill humans (especially physical, non-magical ones) like knives, swords, youkai wrecking humans bare-handed (like Suika, as described in GoM), trains ramming on people, and so on. Maybe simply declaring a spell card, it activates some weird spell that reverses body damage while still keeping pain and fatigue?

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #835 on: June 06, 2015, 08:15:31 PM »
Hieda no Akyuu have the ability to "not forget anything she sees". What would happen if she met Koishi Komeiji? Could she remember her afterwards? Also, is her ability limited to the things she "can see", meaning that she would need to be able to perceive Koishi first, as otherwise they would have no use at all?  ;)

I wonder if they ever officially met and if not, what does fandom say about this matter =)

Koishi isn't invisible to everyone. It is just that it is hard to notice her, because of her lack of presence. Koishi is also not memorable, so people tend to forget about her. She's supposed to be like any common object where you tend to just skip by her. There are people who see her fine, like Reimu.

According to Marisa's profile she is just an ordinary magician yet she is capable of aconplishing amazing feets such as doing mid-air magic enhanced cartweels,riding her broom in the speed almost similar to Aya and firing the Master.Spark without suffering eye damage or vurbt to cinder. Is there an explanation of this an how strong is Marisa and what is her weakness.

Yes, magic is the reason. Also, Marisa is no where near as fast as Aya. Those two aren't even close in terms of speed. There is probably some protective barrier protecting Marisa when moving at such speeds.

I think Marisa's mini-hakkero is similar to the original Hakkero. That means it uses divine fire that can burn pretty much anything. Kind of like Yorihime's divine flame sword.

Quote
-There are other occurences that are not reasonably possible in Touhou, the worst offender being the fight against Okuu in SA

Why's that, we are talking about a magical world here? In Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, most of the final fight is in low earth orbit, thanks to Tenshi lifting you all the way there.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #836 on: June 06, 2015, 08:47:48 PM »
Quote
-Marisa's magic stick(?) from UFO is said to be unecessary because you can use whatever magic you can already use but not get to use a new kind of magic by relying on tools
What does this even mean? I'm confused.
I don't quite remember the source (but it have something to do with UFO), but the use of tools don't allow you to use a new kind of magic you've never been able to use, so magic tools are just there to boost the magic you could already use

But heat is still heat, even if it is magical, and Mokou's flames hurt her because she wraps herself in them, while the enemies don't get burned to a crisp (how can it even be non-magical fire anyway?).
Hence the "speculation" part  :V
Mokou is somehow able to generate and manipulate fire but that has nothing to do with magic, and of course Mokou's fire won't burn the other person to a crisp since it's in a non-lethal battle. It might appear due to some supernatural thing, but Mokou is still not a magician. At any rate I don't remember Marisa or Patchouli getting hurt from the heat from their own magic, then again things might've been different if they directly casted their spells on themselves, although hurting the other person is the point of the "offensive" magic.

Some stuff that have nothing to do with magicians gets to be associated with some magical source, the miracle mallet and the youma books for example, but items turning into tsukumogami and Kosuzu getting her ability are usually associated with youkai and people with ability rather than magician. Magician do count as a race or another kind of youkai in Touhou, so it might not be incorrect to say that magic and supernatural stuff are more or less the same, but youkai in general mainly do what people think they can do : if they could use magic, then they definitely won't be restrained to behave the way they are supposed to in legends : kappa's ability to manipulate water is mediocre according to canon and they certainly can't use magic, which doesn't compare to Patchouli's elemental magic at all. Magicians are more versatile in what they do : they are not bound to use what they are expected to use. Tengu uses wind because that they are supposed to do so, but it does not count as wind magic or something like that. Magicians do supernatural stuff too, but theirs can be put in some category.

Whatever magic does, it still count as supernatural (a more categorised one), but what I meant to say in my answer to SerB18 is that magic doesn't have a very bad impact on the people who uses it. The problem with Patchouli and Alice have something to do with the material they use.

Then again, thinking back, in one SaBND chapter, when Marisa suggest about firing master spark at the tree and the fairies freaked out because it could destroy their home, maybe master spark not burning people to the bone might have something to do with it being possible to regulate, so some parts of my reasoning is kinda void, back there... but mentioning that the mini hakkero's got the firepower but not master spark can lead to some weird conclusion orz...

Anyway, the speculation I made there is more centered around the "why nothing bad happens to Marisa when she does her thing" only, so a different suggestion or correction regarding magic stuff is most welcome...

We should also apply this to other supposedly lethal attacks that for some reason don't kill humans (especially physical, non-magical ones) like knives, swords, youkai wrecking humans bare-handed (like Suika, as described in GoM), trains ramming on people, and so on. Maybe simply declaring a spell card, it activates some weird spell that reverses body damage while still keeping pain and fatigue?
Spellcards are very diverse : physical, magical, spiritual, non-lethal projectiles, lethal projectiles, spiritual, fire, thunder and so on. Just because these reflect a certain person's ability doesn't mean it's magic. These are made for fight so of course these are supposed to hurt, be it magic or the rest, but then again, it's not like spellcards were made for the purpose of using it against yourself. How damaging these are, that is not sure, but these are supposed to reflect their user's own abilities : even if Mokou blows herself up with her LW kai, no matter how lethal it looks like, if it doesn't kill it's not lethal. Of course a few things might change depending on what spellcards are supposed to be or how the hell are these even made in the first place. A portion of it's owner's power made into a card, materialisable danmakufu script or something ? This too is left to speculation. At any rate, the bosses are alway tougher and enduring when they activate their spellcard so that's that  :V
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 10:42:13 PM by Suspicious person »

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #837 on: June 06, 2015, 09:44:43 PM »
Marisa and what is her weakness.

Marisa is vulnerable to tigers. She got badly wounded by one in WaHH, enough to make amputating her arm seem reasonable.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #838 on: June 06, 2015, 11:25:24 PM »
How old it the Tohou fanbase in general. Has it gotten a cult following as soon as HRTP was released or only after EOSD? Is the western fanbase younger than the Japanese one?


Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #839 on: June 07, 2015, 12:03:30 AM »
Quote
Marisa

If we are to take Kasen's statement in ULiL, Marisa risks dying because of how she uses her magic. There's also several other hints that she's weaken because of magic experiment and being fairly frail as well. There's a reason that so many ways to attain longevity in Touhou has Marisa commenting or being mentioned. But yeah, we won't know for sure.