Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer

[Leon゠Helsing]

It just come to my attention that at least a couple of Touhou tracks are almost completely symmetrical (namely Hartmann's Youkai Girl and Reverse Ideology). Did ZUN ever comment on their symmetry?

[Colticide]

Speaking of songs could zun get in trouble for satori Maiden 3rd eye since it has a part that's just like a song in Evangelion?

[Tengukami]

Similarities between ZUNsongs and songs from Castlevania and others have been brought up over and over for years now. Some of these comparisons hold more weight than others. If he hasn't "gotten in trouble" by now, chances are he won't be. Not least of all due to a game that came out over six years ago.

[Romantique Tp]

Nobody will ever get in trouble for a 2 bar sound-alike because they happen by accident all the time. In this case, ZUN most likely hummed this to himself and mistook it for an original idea, which is a common thing. It's pretty much impossible to tell if the melody you have in mind is something new or if you're just remembering some random song you heard 10 years ago.

On top of that, music played with standard tunings doesn't have endless possibilities. If you composed 300+ tracks, there's a good chance some of them would have parts that sound similar to songs you've never heard before.

[Kappa Steel Inc]

Question:
In PoFV, it is said that the flowers come into bloom every 60 years. According to the wiki, http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Phantasmagoria_of_Flower_View/Story#End-Story , the same incident happened 60 years ago, and it was attributed to WWII.

Recently, I happen to read upon a Japanese myth about the curse of the Fire Horse. http://www.tofugu.com/2012/04/11/the-curse-of-the-fire-horse-japans-ultimate-form-of-contraception/
Every 60 years, the 12 animals and 5 elements will coincide for the year of the Fire Horse, and the people will go out of their way to not have children or to abort the babies due to its connotation of bad luck.
By the way, 1966 was the year of the fire horse, and the birthrate in Japan took a significant dip.
http://i.imgur.com/JPTyooy.jpg

Does this mean that all the flowers in PoFV are actually spirits of aborted babies?

pls respond

[Drake]

1966 + 60 = 2026
so no

It was likely referring to the 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake, given that was the deadliest disaster in recent times when the game was being developed (and one of the deadliest recorded natural disasters ever, really).

[Kappa Steel Inc]

1966 + 60 = 2026
so no

It was likely referring to the 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake, given that was the deadliest disaster in recent times when the game was being developed (and one of the deadliest recorded natural disasters ever, really).

But then, the natural disasters and such don't always happen at 60 year cycles. The dialogue in game seems to imply that such events happen every 60 years, and they also mention the 60 year cycle involving the five elements and the 12 zodiac. Also, even though the game came out in 2005, the in-game time period does not necessarily have to match up with the game release. Maybe at cursory glance, the flowers seem to indicate the disaster victims or the casualties of war. However, the year of fire horse is also another explanation that can be presented.

[cuc]

First, thanks for bringing up the article. It is probably part of the inspiration for PoFV's story, just as Touhou's sixty-year cycle of three lights, four seasons and five elements is inspired by the real life cycle of 60, but they are otherwise entirely invented by ZUN.

Most Touhou stories do in fact happen around the time of their release. For games, this means happening in the same year, with exception of some spinoffs.

(The real purpose of introducing the cycle in PoFV is to talk about WW2. Like some things in Touhou, it's actually better to not take it at face value.)

Also, the description provided by your article is very shallow. The real cycle of 60 is a synthesis of two ancient Chinese systems, the Ten Heavenly Stems and the Twelve Earthly Branches, both dating back to Shang dynasty, older than the ideas of five elements and twelve animals.

Of course, when Japan adopted the cycle, the Stems and Branches have already been prominently associated with the five elements and twelve animals. So in Japanese on-yomi reading, they are pronounced using these names. The Heavenly Stems are all named in the format of "Elder Brother of Metal", "Little Brother of Metal". If you are seriously going to translate in this way what that article refers to as "Fire Horse", 丙午 Hinoeuma, it should be "Big-Fire Horse", because there is also a "Little-Fire Horse"!

[Polaris]

Here's a story written by ZUN about PoFV. It sort of goes into an explanation of the sixty year cycle.

To paraphrase, the sixty year cycle according to the story occurs as a result of a synthesis of the three lights (sun, moon, stars), the four seasons (spring, summer, autumn, winter), and the five phases (fire, water, wood, metal, earth). The phenomenon occurs when the year has the attributes of sun, spring, and earth, symbolizing the rebirth of all living things.

[Drake]

(I realize others have posted much of what I'm saying before I could but w/e)

But then, the natural disasters and such don't always happen at 60 year cycles.

Hey, I never said the 60-year cycle has any basis in reality. It's a mythos, and is just written here by ZUN in order to fit stuff.

The dialogue in game seems to imply that such events happen every 60 years, and they also mention the 60 year cycle involving the five elements and the 12 zodiac.

It's the three lights/spirits, four seasons and five elements/phases, not the chinese zodiac signs; although the chinese calendar uses the zodiac and the five elements (well ten, since they're per yin and yang) in a sexagenary cycle as well, also called the stem-branch cycle. But yes, the point of the system is precisely that "nature" is supposed to repeat every 60 years. Any big event happening at one time would then have a similar occurrence 60 years later, not just this event of many deaths. You can read some more about this in SJD's one-shot.

Also, even though the game came out in 2005, the in-game time period does not necessarily have to match up with the game release.

It always has. The Touhou series follows real time and current events as much as possible. Much of the time even the game's season is in line with release date. The only big outlier is Fairy Wars, because that was about an event that happened in the manga several years before. PCB's release date is off, but BaiJR specifies its canonical date, as well as confirming dates for EoSD, IaMP and IN (as well as PoFV's year and season). The calendar system is well-established and is used throughout the series.

However, the year of fire horse is also another explanation that can be presented.

I don't see why you would come to that conclusion. Is there any particular reason you want to look at this? Because to me it seems like you've plucked this out of nowhere. And if the year of the Fire Horse has known dates, why assume this is the case when it totally contradicts the other dates?

[Kappa Steel Inc]

Is there any particular reason you want to look at this? Because to me it seems like you've plucked this out of nowhere. And if the year of the Fire Horse has known dates, why assume this is the case when it totally contradicts the other dates?

It gives another look at the background material for one of the games. I didn't pluck this out of nowhere. This is Japanese superstition and fits right in considering a lot of Touhou material also gives a glimpse at Japanese myths and folklore. Also, I don't know much about the games at all, so I'm not sure of the exact dates the events occur. If someone with enough knowledge of Japanese myth took a cursory glance at the PoFV game, it would be easier and more natural for him to associate the 60 year cycle of death and rebirth with the year of fire horse rather than contemporary events.
I think it's fun to look at things like this. Don't you?

[Clarste]

It gives another look at the background material for one of the games. I didn't pluck this out of nowhere. This is Japanese superstition and fits right in considering a lot of Touhou material also gives a glimpse at Japanese myths and folklore. Also, I don't know much about the games at all, so I'm not sure of the exact dates the events occur. If someone with enough knowledge of Japanese myth took a cursory glance at the PoFV game, it would be easier and more natural for him to associate the 60 year cycle of death and rebirth with the year of fire horse rather than contemporary events.
I think it's fun to look at things like this. Don't you?

Honestly, it sounds to me like you just recently learned some one weird little piece of trivia and are overeager to associate it with anything. Even if we were talking about the same cycle, why exactly would a year associated with unlucky children make anyone think of death? You'd think of people not having kids, at best. Surely there's another year that would be more associated with death itself. Declining birth rates are absolutely not the same thing as increased death rates, and I can't imagine anyone intuitively making that leap.

I'm not really that well informed about the details of the cycle, but following this conversation it sounds to me like this is a logical leap only you could possibly make, due to the coincidental timing of you learning this factoid and reading about PoFV's story.

[Kappa Steel Inc]

Even if we were talking about the same cycle, why exactly would a year associated with unlucky children make anyone think of death?

Because abortion.
I like looking at grim and dark background information, like Totoro being the death god or the bathhouse in Spirited Away being a whorehouse. Imagine all the flowers in PoFV actually being spirits of dead unborn babies.

[Clarste]

Because abortion.
I like looking at grim and dark background information, like Totoro being the death god or the bathhouse in Spirited Away being a whorehouse. Imagine all the flowers in PoFV actually being spirits of dead unborn babies.

Abortion is almost certainly not the primary source of the low birth rate, and I doubt it even made a dent in the death rate. It's interestingly morbid, but it's not an association that most people would readily make without your particular circumstances.

[Drake]

I think it's fun to look at things like this. Don't you?

If I didn't, I wouldn't be trying to help clarify what's really going on, nor in general be posting about the series' lore in these threads for years. I'm just actually interested in the factual information and understanding the meaning behind it, rather than fabricating tenuous pet theories and acting as though they're correct. Not that pet theories are necessarily bad, just that they don't substitute or represent the original content. The content we're given is interesting enough to discuss as it is, really.

[Biakmon]

It is a bit more difficult for me to play touhou fighting games (touhou 10.5/12.3) on laptop cause I have to press 2 keys at the same time to enable a diagonal action. So I went to put an external keyboard which have the traditional keys but I still don't have access to the diagonal direction. I think the game doesn't register the numerical pad of the external keyboard and that may be why I still don't have access to numbers like 7, 9, 1, 3.

So, what can I do to have access to those diagonal moves?
Do I have to end the process of the internal keyboard in the laptop first or what?
Can autokeys solve this problem?

[Romantique Tp]

I have no idea what you're trying to do. To press diagonals you should be pressing two directions together (down + right, up + left, etc), you can't bind the diagonals to their own keys normally because playing like that would be really awkward.

In any case you should really save yourself the headache and just buy a playstation style controller with a saturn d-pad. They're like 10 bucks and they make pretty much every action game that's not a FPS/TPS more enjoyable.

[Clarste]

I've had the exact same problem, and I solved it with AutoHotKey. Essentially the problem is that laptop manufacturers cut corners on the wiring, so the keyboard physically can't tell the difference when certain keys are pressed at the same time. In my case, Z was on the same wire as the up and left keys, so I couldn't move up-left while firing. To solve this I remapped Shift, Z, X, and C to X, C, V, and B (two spots over, basically). This solved the problem for my keyboard, but it really depends on the specific model so you might have to experiment.

That said, there is no "diagonal" button in Touhou, you just press two arrow keys at once to move diagonally.

[Romantique Tp]

Is that a recent thing? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone having this issue before, only some people being unable to press 3 keys at the same time on some super cheap keyboards. What laptop are you using?

[Clarste]

Is that a recent thing? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone having this issue before, only some people being unable to press 3 keys at the same time on some super cheap keyboards. What laptop are you using?

I'm using an Acer Aspire, but I had the same issue (well, not quite as bad) on my previous laptop too. So about... 7 years or so? It really depends on the manufacturer and the specific model.

[Taprus]

Ive been always wondering something , as we all know it has been confirmed that Aya is a ( the ?) wind god wich actually states in MoF that she and the Tengu are getting like annoyed of Kanako because she keeps thinking that the mountain is hers BUT this only gives me confusion because of Kanakos last spell "Virtue of Wind God", wich the name of would actualy mean that the spell is the virtue of the wind god, and who is the wind god? Aya. Can anyone tell me how this makes any sense ? Or what have I been missing? Or how I completely butchered the english language ?

[Clarste]

Ive been always wondering something , as we all know it has been confirmed that Aya is a ( the ?) wind god wich actually states in MoF that she and the Tengu are getting like annoyed of Kanako because she keeps thinking that the mountain is hers BUT this only gives me confusion because of Kanakos last spell "Virtue of Wind God", wich the name of would actualy mean that the spell is the virtue of the wind god, and who is the wind god? Aya. Can anyone tell me how this makes any sense ? Or what have I been missing? Or how I completely butchered the english language ?

Aya is not a real god. "Wind God" is just a nickname she earned for being really fast. Kanako is a real wind god, and her spellcard is referring to herself. Aya and the other tengu are just annoyed at Kanako because the mountain is their land, in the mundane sense that they think she's a trespasser on their property.

However, your question indicates that you're making the incorrect assumption that there is only one god of any particular thing. That's not how it works in Shinto, or most other pantheistic religions for that matter. There can be more than one god of wind at the same time.

[cuc]

There is not always a clear line between gods and monster. The tengu are monsters who are also sometimes worshipped, so they can indeed be called gods. IIRC Aya straight said "we tengu are gods" in PoFV. Either that or her profile said so. (Also, on the pages of PMiSS, the English text translated "tengu" as "wind deity").

[Clarste]

There is not always a clear line between gods and monster. The tengu are monsters who are also sometimes worshipped, so they can indeed be called gods. IIRC Aya straight said "we tengu are gods" in PoFV. Either that or her profile said so. (Also, on the pages of PMiSS, the English text translated "tengu" as "wind deity").

Well, yes, but technically Kanako isn't a wind god either because she's changing her myth. I just didn't want to confuse anyone.  For most purposes in the story, tengu are distinct from gods because they don't need to gather faith.

[iPetalchaser]

Ive been always wondering something , as we all know it has been confirmed that Aya is a ( the ?) wind god wich actually states in MoF that she and the Tengu are getting like annoyed of Kanako because she keeps thinking that the mountain is hers BUT this only gives me confusion because of Kanakos last spell "Virtue of Wind God", wich the name of would actualy mean that the spell is the virtue of the wind god, and who is the wind god? Aya. Can anyone tell me how this makes any sense ? Or what have I been missing? Or how I completely butchered the english language ?

Let's start with talking about Ayaya first. Aya is not a 'Wind God', regardless of what her music themes may be named. Instead, she is a Karasu-Tengu (hence, a youkai), and her loyalty, therefore, would belong to the leader of the Tengu, the Tenma.

The reason why the Tengu and the Moriya were in conflict at the commencement of MoF was because the Tengu believed that all the territory in the Youkai Mountain and its vicinity were their domain, but the Moriya, having recently arrived and taken the peak of the mountain as their shrine-grounds, were not willing to be subjected to Tengu jurisdiction, and instead wished that the Tengu be their subjects and worship them to provide faith.

Now Kananko is technically one of the Yamato Kami, though since she has a human form, she may correspond to the class of "Divine Spirits" (akin to the Ten Desires Stage 1 mid-boss?).
She is called a "Goddess of the Wind" as the Bagua element she is most closely associated to is the "Sky" (as supposed to Suwako's affinity with "Earth", the opposite element).
Her exact abilities are rather vague as per current canon. Apparently she should be able to control the weather and winds, but she also has some ability at construction (the Myourenji temple was reportedly built by her). Currently she seems to be going as a "Goddess of Mountains and Lakes", though she is working to change that to "Goddess of Technological Progress"

So, Kanako is the wind god, and Aya is a messenger is the service of the Tenma, and a reporter in her free time.

These are good further reading in this regard:
Aya as described in Perfect Momento in a Strict Sense.
Kanako's article in Symposium of Post-Mysticism

EDITTO : Post was ninja'ed.

[CyberAngel]

"Wind God" is just a nickname she earned for being really fast.

It isn't even her nickname. Music theme names actually have nothing to do with anything they're used for, even if some might look like they do. SDM's library isn't named Voile, Remilia isn't a princess (and her theme even isn't a septette) etc. As for "Wind God Girl", IIRC this theme was named like that as a reference to something.

[cuc]

I don't know any reference in "Wind God Girl". In any case, as PoFV and PMiSS showed, the tengu are literarily minor wind kami, and as has been repeatedly brought up in the QA thread, being a kami is no big deal in an animist faith where everything by definition has kami inside.

Parsee is also called a guardian goddess in her SA profile (which the old translation missed). The word "tsukumogami" itself includes "kami" - they are the kami living in tools who turned against the humans who neglected them. Danzaburou-danuki, the tanuki Mamizou is based on, is worshipped in Sado  - its shrine is a tourist attraction, and Japanese Touhou fans often assume Mamizou is also worshipped in Touhou universe.

The line between kami and youkai is thin and often nonexistent. It's probably better to treat this as an advanced-level Touhou lesson - since it's the subject of that WaHH chapter about trees, rather than an expert-level lesson, if you catch my drift.

[Clarste]

The word "tsukumogami" itself includes "kami" - they are the kami living in tools who turned against the humans who neglected them.

Shikigami also contains the word kami.

It isn't even her nickname. Music theme names actually have nothing to do with anything they're used for, even if some might look like they do. SDM's library isn't named Voile, Remilia isn't a princess (and her theme even isn't a septette) etc. As for "Wind God Girl", IIRC this theme was named like that as a reference to something.

I wasn't even thinking about her theme, she just has the word "wind god" in her spellcards and such. Peerless Wind God, Wind God's Fan, etc.

[Biakmon]

- Is there a way to create macro for touhou fighting game using 'autohotkeys' or such? Like a single button for executing a series of different moves in sequence for a special attack.
If so, how to do it?

[iPetalchaser]

- Is there a way to create macro for touhou fighting game using 'autohotkeys' or such? Like a single button for executing a series of different moves in sequence for a special attack.
If so, how to do it?

Might this be what you seek?