Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer

[Tengukami]

Though, considering what happened in the course of Danmaku Amanojaku, or looking at how Yorihime used an unavoidable spell card against Sakuya in SSiB, one may question the legitimacy of this inference.

Well, some exceptions are bound to happen. Doesn't mean the general rules of "fairness" and even a razor-thin chance to dodge don't apply.

[Clarste]

Every card in Impossible Spellcard is dodgeable without tools, so those aren't an exception. Yorihime didn't know how to play, and you can't blame her since Marisa's explanation was woefully inadequate.

[Tengukami]

The "exception" here being related to the narrative of ISC; not the gameplay. The spellcards are not of course literally impossible.

But yeah, the Moon Sisters by themselves are one big anomaly in a lot of ways. There's a reason people have been critical of them, as characters.

[Leon゠Helsing]

What I'm looking for here is, can that anomaly be resolved in some way?
Oh, and thanks for pulling my mind back to what I was looking for in the first place, by the way.

[BB]

I always interpreted the spellcard rules as being "baked into" the Hakurei Barrier- that it's not really something you opt into, just any high-level danmaku automatically gets pushed into spellcard format. This at least would explain why someone like Kanako, whose motivation is conquest, would play fair when she otherwise wouldn't be disposed to do so- she didn't have a choice.

The spells in Impossible Spellcard then are still technically possible because they can't not be- but they're the absolute limit of how dangerous spells CAN be, similar to Last Words which are presented as the theoretical "ultimate attack" each character has. (Ref: Fantasy Heaven, which is explicitly stated unbeatable and impossible to counter without the spellcard timer). The lifting of the rules is more a case of Reimu would usually intervene if any youkai tried to use a spell like that in day-to-day life, but for the purpose of catching Seija she's willing to overlook such excessive use of force.

I haven't read the manga in question so please take this explanation with that in mind: I guess if they were fighting on the moon then that doesn't really count as part of Gensokyo any more, so presenting danmaku as spellcards is more of an aesthetic thing- they're no longer restricted by the rules, so the danmaku of pre-Barrier times is possible. (Makai and The Netherworld are arguably not part of Gensokyo either, but the entrances to them are entirely contained within the Barrier so the rule affects them anyway.)

Please note most of this is conjecture, but hopefully it still makes sense  :V Unless the fight in question wasn't on the moon, in which case  :ohdear:

[Espadas]

I've still not read SSiB so i don't know exactly how much "unavoidable" Yorihime's attack was but a possible solution to the problem is if it was like Flandre's "Leavatein" Spellcard: if you don't know BEFOREHAND where to move it's practically impossible to avoid.

Ref: Fantasy Heaven, which is explicitly stated unbeatable and impossible to counter without the spellcard timer.

Someday..... someday i'll finish this thrice-damned fanfic and show everyone that Fantasy Heaven CAN BE CANONICALLY BEATEN by at least one character....  :matsuriscowl:




I've a few questions related to some of the girl's powers:

1) Does Seija's power affect only things that can be literally "turned upside-down" or is more of a "turn anything into its opposite"?
Reading the touhouwiki article it seems is the latter.... and if it's so, i think many don't understand just how horrifically powerful that ability truly is....

2) Does Minoriko's power allow her to grow plants/vegetable/etc that istantly sprout fruits (like Yuuka does with flowers) or simply make sure that already growing plants will give a good harvest?

3) What the heck does Yuugi's power do? Even just in broad meaning or lousy examples!
Up until now i believed that she was capable, either willingly or unconsciously, of causing "unexplainable phenomenas" (and i clearly remember someone in this very forum saying something like "stopping a typhoon by screaming at it") but reading an old post of the cowriter of the touhouwiki page about her it appears i'm wrong.

4) Is Kogasa's power the same as Chen's? What does it imply?
Touhouwiki is a bit vague on this. Does they have an actual ability or is merely how they behave? Chen's seems to be simply "when she is a normal bakaneko (aka she is too far from Ran for her shikigami powers) she might attack humans near her like a cat would", hence a mere quirk of her nature.
But Kogasa is explicity stated to have it as her only ability (even if she is bad at it). And then there is the fact that she show up as UFO Extra Stage's Mid-boss with even a "surprise" sound.....
This last part kind of bug me: does it means that (if she become very skilled in it) she could possibly do ANYTHING as long as it is "surprising"? Seems a stretch, but it would be another overlooked but terribly powerful ability....

[ToyoRai]

The best way I can describe Yorihime's  attacks is that imagine if you were given infinite bombs. Yorihime hardly ever attacked straight out. She just counterattacked everything. The only time where she really did a direct attack was by summoning Amaterasu to attack Remilia. Of course, this opens up the can of was Yorihime even technically using spellcards in spellcard duel, but that would open a can of all new mess.

@Chen's and Kogasa's "powers": Keep in mind that some of the powers are more or less stated (like Yuugi would mind as well stated her powers being that to make her look impressive even though even she has no idea what she is talking about). Kogasa doesn't really have an actual power to surprise people. That simply is her job. Same thing with Chen. Her power being that would be that the only way Chen can really attack as bakaneko is to scare her opponent.

[Drake]

This at least would explain why someone like Kanako, whose motivation is conquest, would play fair when she otherwise wouldn't be disposed to do so- she didn't have a choice.

Why does everyone seem to jump to the assumption that just because someone has a goal, they instantly become totally unreasonable and even when explained how disputes are settled, they would ignore this because of their goal. This is literally the purpose of the spell card rules in the first place.

I've a few questions related to some of the girl's powers:

1) It's rather ambiguous. But even if it was just "flip anything", a character's stated abilities don't mean they just get to manipulate everything in the universe. You don't get to assume that just because the character proclaims they can do something, they can do it to the highest degree imaginable. It's like "Cirno is capable of manipulating the cold" -> "Cirno can cause the heat death of the universe" oh boy! The only thing that tends towards these sorts of conclusions is rampant abusive interpretation of short lines of text.

2) I would say it's likely that she mostly blesses/curses the harvest since this is what she's said to do, but I don't doubt she would be able to spontaneously grow food.

3) Really, her ability and much of her other details is mostly a Confucius reference. It doesn't have any significance on its own. All it can describe is that she has ~mysterious oni powers~ which have already been established from GoM and DS.

4) It's how they behave. And again, the stated abilities they have is just a top-level description and doesn't necessarily mean much of anything. See #1.

[Tengukami]

Also, you should totally read SSiB. Even the bad parts are good, and you can finish it in an afternoon.

Afterwards, if you haven't already seen them, a few videos by kamS re-enact events from SSiB, in his own twisted way.

[Prime32]

Also, you should totally read SSiB. Even the bad parts are good, and you can finish it in an afternoon.

And then read Cage in Lunatic Runagate, because SSiB on its own doesn't cover the full story.

[Espadas]

1) It's rather ambiguous. But even if it was just "flip anything", a character's stated abilities don't mean they just get to manipulate everything in the universe. You don't get to assume that just because the character proclaims they can do something, they can do it to the highest degree imaginable. It's like "Cirno is capable of manipulating the cold" -> "Cirno can cause the heat death of the universe" oh boy! The only thing that tends towards these sorts of conclusions is rampant abusive interpretation of short lines of text.

Lol i have already seen that Cirno example It is technically possible for her, but for being plausible..... yeaaah, make her overpowered, over a millennia old, really smart and THEN i might believe it  :V

Although Seija's power doesn't require that level of mastery to be really nasty.... i'll make a normal example, a "Cirno destroy the universe" example, and a for the lulz example:

1) Normal application: she flips PERCEPTION/SENSES at the last second (and this is what she actually DOES in her fight)

Hello Hirako Shinji! Got tired of Ichigo and the others? In danmaku fights she would be practically unbeatable since even a normal attack would connect (you are about to dodge to the left, wooops switched your perception, you moved to the right and got hit). And it would be totally legit, since the attack per-se isn't unavoidable (just like Sakuya stopping time). In an "real" fight, your only hope is to have a power that works "remotely" like Flandre's, because any kind of ranged or melee attack would still be affected by your perception.....


2) Extreme application: she flips YOUR ENTIRE BEING

What is the most basic and defining trait all living beings have in common? Being ALIVE..... what is the opposite of alive? Congrats Seija, you just gained an overpowered version of Yuyuko's power, capable of OHKO anyone not named Kaguya or Mokou


3) Funny application: she flips your ABILITY/PERSONAL TRAITS

Eirin is an hax-level genius ---> Intelligent/Stupid ---> she becomes a moron worse that Cirno XD
Oni have mountain-destroying strenght  ---> Strong/Weak --->  Suika and Yuugi can't hurt a kitten

[Prime32]

It's not a matter of mastery. The description doesn't determine how their powers work, it's just what they call their favorite/signature use of them.

It's like, if everyone in Gensokyo had one eye, you could go there and say you have the power to tell how far away things are. That doesn't mean you can "master" your power in order to see into the future, or judge peoples' relationships. It just means you have two eyes.

If Seija can flip physical objects then it's probably from general telekinesis that she chooses to use in only one way (because youkai are like that), and gaining increased mastery would just let her affect larger/heavier things.

[Hatateru]

I'd say Seija's power is more on skill than raw power.

She needs to be smart enough to exploit it creatively, like say flipping the direction of your air intake, digestion or bloodflow. It won't require massive effort, but it's still dangerous enough to be labelled as harmful.

Flipping the universe, orientation of the earth, direction of the sunrise, etc would be total bullcrap of course.

[Colticide]

A few odd questions I've been building up since I was last here.

Since the game all have different difficulties and some spell cards are different for each one are there different levels to each card? Ahh well I guess a better example would be like Fantasy Seal to Fantasy Orb. Are they technically the same spell card but different levels of power or what? Also what would be considered each characters ultimate spell card? The last words for some and the last Lunatic Spell Card used by others?

Is there anything in the books that talk about how one would learn danmaku or create spell cards to protect themselves in Gensokyo?

How does ZUN or other Circles feel about the use of their music in non profit projects? Like say in a video or in a free game?

How popular is Touhou in Japan? Compared to other games that is? I bring this up because there is a channel on youtube I watch for Japanese culture in games (some might know who I'm talking about) but never once is Touhou mentioned. And another recent video about Japanese Shmups had no mention to the series despite some music used, the creator even mentioned about never hearing about the series. Is touhou really that much of a niche series?

EDIT: Sorry for adding this in later but what was the deal with Ten Desires? I remember when DDC came out people were talking about how they forgive ZUN for TD.

[iPetalchaser]

How popular is Touhou in Japan? Compared to other games that is? I bring this up because there is a channel on youtube I watch for Japanese culture in games (some might know who I'm talking about) but never once is Touhou mentioned. And another recent video about Japanese Shmups had no mention to the series despite some music used, the creator even mentioned about never hearing about the series. Is touhou really that much of a niche series?

Quoting a past quote from a thread i read back when i was a stalker of the maidens here....

Guess which is more famous in Japan at this moment, a geeky fandom where the fans build everything they enjoy themselves, or a chart-topping Korean boyband?

Is there anything in the books that talk about how one would learn danmaku or create spell cards to protect themselves in Gensokyo?

The Grimoire of Marisa is the go-to book for anything that Touhou canon has to offer about the spell card mechanism, its text and translation is available on the Touhouwiki. Of particular interest is the entry about Reimu's Musou Tensei
Well that and the Spell Card description in PMiSS.

How does ZUN or other Circles feel about the use of their music in non profit projects? Like say in a video or in a free game?

This topic contains ZUN's latest statement in this regard.



I hope that my tone in the posts i've made on this thread don't make me sound like a stuck-up snob or something of that sort... (;<.<)

[Drake]

Since the game all have different difficulties and some spell cards are different for each one are there different levels to each card? Ahh well I guess a better example would be like Fantasy Seal to Fantasy Orb. Are they technically the same spell card but different levels of power or what? Also what would be considered each characters ultimate spell card? The last words for some and the last Lunatic Spell Card used by others?

You could say they're different spell cards -- at least when the names differ between them. I would say there isn't any difference between Nazrin Pendulum and Nazrin Pendulum (Easy and Normal), but there is a difference between Nazrin Pendulum, HS Nazrin Pendulum and Pendulum Guard. As for the second, I don't think "ultimate spell card" is really a thing. It doesn't make much sense to label one spell card as like their "best" card or anything like that. Perhaps their "favorite", "identifying", or "characteristic" spell card? But not "ultimate".

Is there anything in the books that talk about how one would learn danmaku or create spell cards to protect themselves in Gensokyo?

To add to what was said, refer to SSiB where the lunar rabbit guard figure out how to fire danmaku near-instantly. Also an important thing to mention from GoM is that pretty much anything can be used as danmaku.

How popular is Touhou in Japan? Compared to other games that is? I bring this up because there is a channel on youtube I watch for Japanese culture in games (some might know who I'm talking about) but never once is Touhou mentioned. And another recent video about Japanese Shmups had no mention to the series despite some music used, the creator even mentioned about never hearing about the series. Is touhou really that much of a niche series?

It isn't as much Touhou specifically as it is doujin culture altogether. You can be pretty certain that anyone interested in doujin culture will at least know what Touhou is, but in general Japan is just as clueless about it as anywhere else. It is a bit surprising that somebody into STGs wouldn't know what it is though, since STGs, arcade culture and doujin culture go fairly hand-in-hand.
EDIT: Oh you mean JonTron. I thought you meant somebody actually interested in STGs. That isn't surprising at all then; he's probably missed tons of other gems.

Sorry for adding this in later but what was the deal with Ten Desires? I remember when DDC came out people were talking about how they forgive ZUN for TD.

At least in the west, many people found it not to their fancy for varying reasons. Disliking the trance system, being too easy, and other parts of gameplay, disliking the musical direction, disliking the characters, etc. You shouldn't take comments like this too seriously, though.

[michikaze]

About The Most First Touhou M-1 Grand Prix. Is the translation of judge decisions available anywhere? Or at least (no, better if) transcription of it?

[Abraham Lincoln]

Is ZUN left-handed?

[Drake]

His left hand is his beer hand. He does everything else with his right hand, but this clearly means he is indeed left-handed!

[Tengukami]

I don't read Japanese, so help me out here: did this just come out on August 12?

[monhan]

I don't read Japanese, so help me out here: did this just come out on August 12?

No, they only announced it and you can start ordering them from Amiami or Yahoo Shopping. They also made one for Youmu and Eirin.
The Kasen figure will be sold on October, Youmu will be on November. Dates unknown.
Eirin hasn't been revealed yet, but you can see the design in Touhou Memory's blog.

I can't find the source, but I believe there will be one for Yukari as well, based on that picture.

[Espadas]

Can ZUN enter the Guinness World Records?

I did a quick search in the official site and i didn't find a world record for "Most remixed composer ever".....

I mean, in the net there is a file containing over 3000 more-or-less famous remixes (not ALL of them and the latest games aren't included) and it's freaking 1.2 TERABYTES!
I find it very hard to believe that there is a composer whose musics have been remixed more.....

The only problem i can see is quantify the number of remixes (i think it would be almost impossible....)

[Drake]

Touhou Project is already in Guinness, as the most prolific fan-made shooter series. It isn't on the site anymore, though.

ZUN's twitter profile is even a product of this, as they referred to him as "an enigmatic developer known only as ZUN".

[Shiina Tamai]

This is something that has been on my mind for a couple of days. Let's just say that somebody wanted to try to go to Gensokyo by landing an aircraft there. Would that be possible? Is it stated how high the Hakurei barrier is? Would commercial aircraft overflying the region where Gensokyo is be affected as well?

[iPetalchaser]

This is something that has been on my mind for a couple of days. Let's just say that somebody wanted to try to go to Gensokyo by landing an aircraft there. Would that be possible? Is it stated how high the Hakurei barrier is? Would commercial aircraft overflying the region where Gensokyo is be affected as well?

The Hakurei Barrier is apparently not a physical barrier which may be crossed merely by travelling. It is a barrier of 'uncommon sense' (where was this stated again?), and therefore, someone that exists on one side is pretty much sent to oblivion on the other side.

If someone wishes to go the Gensokyo from the outside, they would need to become forgotten on the opposite side. As such, even if Gensokyo were to occupy a certain region of the world, there would simultaneously be cities and people occupying the corresponding area in the outside world, but the two would not normally interact because of the non-physical nature of the barrier.

For example, in Cage in Lunatic Runagate, it is stated that the 'Youkai Mountain' in Gensokyo preserves the original appearance of Mt. Yatsugatake before it was flattened by the patron goddess of Mt. Fuji in jealousy. This means that the mountain not only exists, but also looks different inside and outside the barrier.

[Colticide]

Where would one find sound Fx from touhou games?

[Failure McFailFace]

Where would one find sound Fx from touhou games?

Drake ripped them from every Windows game up to DDC's trial. A few people ripped DDC full and Seija's player sprite. It's on the last page.

Find them here.

[Tengukami]

Got a wiki related question, regarding updates and protocol. I noticed here that DDC and ISC are coded red, in accordance with this bug. However, testing very old advice upthread regarding a dll fix I could confirm it a second time. Individually, the games are rated Silver and Gold respectively.

What sort of protocol does the wiki have for new accounts and edits? Or is this rather something that's pointed out for review?

[Drake]

For a while they disabled new account creation on the basis of getting a bunch of spam accounts or something, and at that time you'd have to contact someone on #touhouwiki on irc.esper.net to get an account. But they don't have that notice anymore and I seem to be able to create an account, so you can just try and make one.

Edits have no real review process. You just make them. If there are significant changes to be made I personally tend to make a post on the article's talk page first, but people don't really get notified of this stuff so communication between editors about a subject on the wiki itself can get difficult. In this case you could go right ahead though.

[Alexstrazsa]

Hi there! I apologize in advance if this is on the wrong sub-forum, but I'm fairly new here and unfamiliar with Touhou in general.

Now, let me just get to the point here: I'm looking for a specific fan-made song, but for the life of me I cannot find it.

To give a bit of backstory, in 2008 I was introduced to Touhou by a friend. I played some of the games and was shown many fan-created works, like games and animations. It was all very fun. Above all, though, I loved the music. It's really great stuff! I liked it to the point where I went and download a ~30 GB torrent just full of fan songs and added it to my music library. While listening one day, I found a particular song that I really loved. It was this great, upbeat electronic song that I can only describe as "crazy." In fact, that's how I referred to it whenever I talked to someone about it. "Crazy Touhou Song."

Unfortunately, my hard drive at the time became corrupted and I lost everything. The torrent, the song, all of my high school work, done. After that, I never got the torrent back, and I never heard that song again. To this day, I can still remember the first 30 seconds or so perfectly, and can recite it in my head without fail. I've searched YouTube at various points throughout the years, but I've never even come close to finding it. Nothing sounds even remotely like it, and I'm not sure if it was a remix or an original piece. I'm relatively sure the title was Japanese, otherwise I think I would've had a title written down somewhere.

So, this is why I come to you today. I've spent six years intermittently looking for this song, and although I could do just download the fan music torrent again, I was shocked to find it ranges from 250 GB to 1.2 TB! My internet connection is fairly shoddy, so even the smaller one would take me days on end to download, and even then I would need to search tirelessly through the thousands of tracks to try and find the one song I loved back in the day. I'm hoping, even praying, that someone here will know what it's called or where I can find it. And if it is a remix, just tell me what the original song is will probably be enough for me to find it. I'm just looking for any lead I can get at this point.

Here's a soundcloud link where I've replicated parts of the song that I remember. The first part is definitely the first few seconds, whereas the second part (separated by some silence) is later into the song. It was a very fast paced, upbeat song with heavy drums some mixed vocals. Not lyrics, but just words cut up to make a sort of sound. I'm not quite sure how else to describe it. I wish I could provide more, but my memory of the song has worn over the years and this is all I really remember.

If the hyperlink didn't work: https://soundcloud.com/alexstrazsa/touhousong

Thank you for any and all help finding this mystery tune.