Puzzle and Dragons Mafia- PAD IS OVER (GAME OVER)

[Raitaki]

Just putting down because let's face it, the not-scum-flipper between me and CF7, Bard and Shadoweh are probably scum's top lynching priorities barring trying to juke the watch/doc right now, I don't think saying this hurts the neighborizer's chances of surviving the night any

[WHMZakeri]

This is easily defeated by the fact that technically nobody ever has to lie about what their alignment is. If scum thought to do that, and if CF7 was scum, then why didn't CF7 do it (bonus points: The rest of the scum would have the same reason if you do come up with one).

[PX]

I'm confused, are you implying I'm scum for voting CF7 to L-1 when you think he's also scum, and I'm trying to quickhammer him except nobody else is on to quickhammer?

[Shadoweh]

I somehow doubt that in a game with a cop and a backup that the two neighbours are also a cop. <_<

[Serela]

There really isn't a point to no-lynching. Rules don't even say scum has to make a kill at night, which on the offchance cf7 was a town watcher (not that I think there's a good chance Raitaki would get lynched) would be the only helpful point. Also lol PX saying lynching Dan is an option when we have a clear 1v1 :V

Anyway, Zakeri; um, no, the case against cf7 is NOT based on his role? Very recently there's some "but he has no light/dark" reasoning but I think that's a BS thing to say he's scummy for; CF7 is scummy because of things he actually did and not because of whatever he claimed was in his rolepm.

Re:The most recent Raitaki post. I don't think people would really bother lying about their element... the discussion of "oh man people who aren't part light or dark are scummy" is both silly and only just occurred right now, after just about everyone already element-claimed. Most people already element claimed before the neighbor shenanigans were even out, I... think? Anyway, regardless of how you look at it, if you follow it to the conclusion then it comes down to "this doesn't seem solid". It's best to just have the neighborizors try to target legit targets to prove they did something that wasn't block or kill people. Even then, I doubt either are scum, so.

Anyway the neighborizors aren't dying tonight... if we lynch cf7 and the game doesn't end we kind of have a ~*~nigh-confirmed-town-doc~*~ on our hands.

[Serela]

also lol shadoweh freaking out when she votes cf7 and then someone else who said they'd more or less decided on him also decides to get on the wagon

[Raitaki]

I guess it's also possible one of them is somehow scum neighborizer, but in that case they'd have to spill their results. If they claim rb'd, then me/CF7 must not flip roleblocker and scum must either not rb one night or shoot CF7/rb AND shoot me, and that's kind of a free safe night for the town neighborizer. If they claim they tried neighborizing a person who claimed to not have their element, or one of me/CF7/Bard/Shadoweh, we can just go "wtf you on why do that" and lynch.

@Zak: CF7's flavor claim happened before the revelation about everyone being neighborizable and before the mod revealed the elements of the dead people. It's entirely possible that right now they realize that not having Light or Dark is probably taboo and shutting up about it to not get singled out. Basically, a whole new vital incentive for lying about elements popped up after CF7 claimed.

@Shadoweh: This is based on interaction with flavor, maybe Chaore didn't expect flavor to turn out to be game-deciding? :V

[Serela]

Nearly everyone's elements (at least to the point of being part dark or light) were claimed before this happened, Raitaki.

[Serela]

anyway tl;dr I really don't think think there's anything useful to be gained from elementspec past Shadoweh/Bard being able to use neighboring to help confirm they didn't murder people at night.

[Raitaki]

ugh shit nvm. I just realized scum can just roleblock the town neighborizer and have the scum neighborizer lie about someone claiming the wrong element to get a mislynch if we do this. for this to work we need both neighborizers to be town ;_;

[Serela]

I really doubt all the scum are neighbor-immune.

The most realistic scenario is no one lied about their element.

And that means the scum wouldn't even care about roleblocking after the doc is dead.

[Raitaki]

I guess we can totally tell them to do it anyway if we're really that desperate for something to break the nullfest, but that seems so freaking risky. Especially since now that I've thought of these shens I think one of the neighborizers is likely a scum.

@Serela: We're at MyLo, nearly all is very different from all. I don't recall PX and Dan claiming if they're Light/Dark or neither (though PX pretty claimed to be one of those through his silence). It's possible that scum is both of them, or one of them + one of the neighborizers. Sure, there might be seem to be no reason to lie about elements, but a) that was before CF7 turned out to be the only known person to be neither Light/Dark, and b) scum would have seen this coming earlier, possibly WAY earlier if Bard is scum (not pointing fingers, hypothesis).

serela after the doc is dead = either LyLo or game has ended :V

[Serela]

Dan is the only one who hasn't element claimed IIRC, PX claimed dark/dark when he said he was batman at the beginning of the day. Besides, it'd be a really weird thing to make all the scum neighbor-immune.

And what does that matter, we're already there >:V You're the one talking about situations where the scum goes around trying to roleblock the supposed cop-neighbourizer and then lie about someone's element to try to mislynch.

[Serela]

So anyway, 5 people want CF7 lynched and then Dan is... Dan, and Zakeri doesn't seem to understand what's going on.

We can either get a move on and lynch CF7, or you guys can keep hoping for Dan to make a cool post, which he could always do tomorrow anyway.

[Raitaki]

I'm not saying scum is all neighbor-immune (see also: "one of the neighborizer can be scum"), but I'm saying it IS possible that there is a neighbor-immune person, and since no one claimed it they're a liar, ergo probably scum. Also, I gave it another thought, and I realized this might still work if roleblocker is lynched today. @Mod: If a neighborizer successfully neighborizes multiple people, do they all share the same neighbor QT, or does the neighborizer get one QT for each neighbor?
Oh I see. Still, don't see any reason more flavor claims would hurt town, so it'd be great if Dan completed the circle :V
Also, besides, if you guys don't believe my "neighborizers might be able to find scum" theory, there's no harm in AT LEAST having the neighborizers decide on someone for them both to target. I don't see how being able to get QTs with more people really helps at this point.

[Raitaki]

It'd be nice if both neighborizers can also PM the mod asking the same if he doesn't feel like answering to me

[Serela]

Even if we did try to use the neighbors as cops it'd be kind of pointless to target them both on the same person, we don't have any dark/lights other than dead-as-a-doorknob Dormio :V

[Serela]

aka they may as well just go as normally planned anyway

[Shadoweh]

##Vote: CF7

[Shadoweh]

I ddidn't have a plan actually, other then to find someone and see if they could tell me what's going on

[Chaore]

Genbu is tired. Genbu wants to sleep. But Genbu must votecount.

CF7 (4): Serela, Raitaki, PX, Shadoweh
PX (1): Bardiche
Raitaki (1): CF7

Not Voting: Action Dan, Zakeri

It takes 5 to lynch. CF7 IS AT L-1.

26 hours remain.

[Raitaki]

oh goddamnit, I just realized we don't have enough people to be able to afford one mislynch in case the scum neighborizer decides to fake a failure on someone who claimed to be an eligible target for them >_>

And Serela I was thinking along the lines of, the other people in the neighbors' QTs can confirm if the target get added to the QT or not. If the answer is no for both, we lynch that person, and if they flip town we lynch the neighborizer who should have been able to neighborize them. But then we don't have the ability to mislynch right now so tears

[Serela]

Are you implying the scum would pretend to be neighbors with eachother or something? Because otherwise obviously both the neighborizor and the claimed neighbor wouldn't both lie that they're together.

Really, I don't understand how this kind of shenanigan would be helpful :V This is even when assuming that scum lied about being light or dark, BEFORE cf7 claimed being neither, far before anyone would have thought it weird in the first place. And if the game lasted long enough to be relevant that'd mean more than one of the scum is neighbor-immune (but no townies are) because ?????. Really, it just doesn't add up in any direction.

But yeah I suppose we're waiting on Bard to hammer, or anyone who feels like giving up on the Raitaki lynch who wanted that one instead.

[Raitaki]

Well, town having no mislynches left pretty much finalized the fact that this thing can't work anymore, so I'll stop talking about it for now ; v; I'm totally up for discussing this postgame though, at least in the context of this game. I'm still pretty convinced that this would totally work if the following 3 conditions are all true: a) town can afford mislynch, b) there is no scum roleblocker (left) and c) members of a neighbor QT other than the neighborizer can confirm if a new person was neighborized into that QT or not.

[Serela]

it'd still only "work" if scum actually lied about their element to pretend to be neighbourizable when they aren't :V It'd more more sense for 2/3 scum to just be neighbor-compatible.

Although I'm mildly amused you didn't realize until now that we have no mislynches left... when it's been mylo all day

[Raitaki]

In my head I was like "hey if I prevented a NK tonight town can totally afford mislynch and this could totally work!" but then oh wait in that case it's possible the last scum is a neighborizer and telling scum to cop themselves is :V

[Raitaki]

Wait, or we can just try having them neighborize same person tonight anyway and see if I can buy town one mislynch
RAITAKI STOP CONFUSING ME

[Serela]

scum is probably just going to roleblock+nightkill you if cf7 isn't a scum rb.

And again, they really don't need to target the same person to check if someone lied...

[Raitaki]

Hey so now that's a possibility, let's continue!
I'm not saying being neighborizable clears someone as town, but just that it IS possible that one person might be immune and they would be lying (it really doesn't matter why, they lied in a way that affects the performances of our confirmed PRs). Also scum pretending to be neighbors is also totally a possible thing if saying otherwise can mean they're exposed. Oh yeah speaking of I've been hypothesizing under the assumption that unless we have a surefire way of confirming the truth they can totally lie and get away with it, but we might still decide to lynch one of the scum involved in the lie for one reason or another and have the evidence to go "hey, this proves person Y was lying about the whole thing all along" and lynch the last scum. Easy LyLo easy life \o/

And sheesh can we just try it anyway and see what happens? Again, I don't see how neighborizing any specific person would harm town in anyway, so why not just try it and see if that combined with the new flips enlighten us on anything?

cut: Recently I did say "wait this only works if CF7 is roleblocker"
And also derp I suppose. Somehow I was thinking a Light claiming Dark or vice versa was a thing >_>
That actually makes it easier. That means both PX and Dan can get checked tonight if Dan turns out to be Light!

[Raitaki]

**claims to be