Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all

[Sen]

...You mean nonspells, right?

EDIT: I'm a jerk.

As for Shou's nons, the first non isn't too bad, but the second non is just...bullshit. The best thing to do is watch the lasers and hope you don't get screwed over.

So it really just comes down to reading and luck? Bleh. At least I can rack up a shit ton of bombs in Stage 6.

[Sakurei]

Last I checked, I asked for help with dodging, not with semantic nitpicking :V

No need to be so condescending about him not being sure what you mean when you use a term to you just made up when everyone else says/types something else when they mean the same thing. Not to mention he tried to answer you question too, even if he wasn't sure.

[Sen]

him not being sure what you mean

Oh. Oh.
From the way his message was worded, I thought he was mocking me for saying something different. I've seen a lot of different terms used for "non-spellcard patterns," including "midspell," "noncard," and "nonspells." It never occurred to me that he was just asking for clarification.

I'm sorry TableCloth

(enough shitposting from me, moving back on topic)

[Karisa]

"Midspell" sounds to me like midboss spell. Except that Shou isn't a midboss at all, much less one of the rare midbosses with multiple midboss spells, hence the conclusion that maybe you meant nonspells/noncards.

(And Sakurei, no need to be condescending about someone else being condescending.)

Anyway, let's get back on topic.

[Monarda]

Ok, i have locale emulator, now how do i use SpoilerAL ? I can`t understand anything of the interface. Requesting assistance. :ohdear:

[TableCloth]

I'm sorry TableCloth

Apology accepted.

Getting consistent at this spell takes some time, but it isn't bad at all once you get the hang of it.

Being consistent in touhou is what I'm really bad at, tho XD. Other than Normal mode Lilies of Murderous Intent, at least.
Which is why I never capable of beating Lunatic eventhough it's been a year since I first played Touhou lol.

[dosboot]

Ok, i have locale emulator, now how do i use SpoilerAL ? I can`t understand anything of the interface. Requesting assistance. :ohdear:

Check the images in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/3ejp3h/guide_using_spoileral_for_efficient_practice/

spoilerAL only works if the .exe has the Japanese name, but you can rename the english .exe and it seems to work just fine.

[Monarda]

Yay it worked, i almost captured Royal Flare, it`s a progress, never had much chance to actually train the spellcard.
This will be veru useful training Maze of Love, Starbow Break and the Clock one.

Edit: I have started capturing Starbow Break.

[Monarda]

Sorry for double post.
I finally got an Extra on my list of accomplishments, so i guess this makes me an actual Touhou Player rather than a wannabe ?
I started doing PCB now, and i`m getting beat up quite a bit on Stage 5 and 6 losing 2-3 lives on each, i guess this is normal since i came from another game ?

And to the doubts:
Is there anything i should know about this game that EoSD didn`t have ? (Besides this Cherry Border thingy.)
How does the Cherry Mechanic work ? When do the Borders appear ?
What exactly is Sakuya focused around ? Is she the go-to-choice for Scoring (Since she starts with 4 bombs and a larger graze area) ?
Will it be harder or easier than EoSD ?
Are the hitboxes as infuriating as EoSD or did ZUN fix it ? (Knifes........)

[Nolegs the Cat]

Sorry for double post.
I finally got an Extra on my list of accomplishments, so i guess this makes me an actual Touhou Player rather than a wannabe ?
I started doing PCB now, and i`m getting beat up quite a bit on Stage 5 and 6 losing 2-3 lives on each, i guess this is normal since i came from another game ?

Congratulations on the extra clear!

You may want to just edit in the future instead of double posting. Just a tip.

Is there anything i should know about this game that EoSD didn`t have ?

Well you get lives at amounts of point items rather than pure score amounts I guess.
Oh, and stage practice starts you with max lives, rather than 2 lives/3 bombs, and it's been that way ever since. Thank god. (and you can save replays of stage practice without patching it)

How does the Cherry Mechanic work ? When do the Borders appear ?

Borders appear when you have 50000 Cherry+, which is the top number of the 3 numbers on the bottom. The one that isn't in the hundreds of thousands.
You get Cherry+ by:
Shooting (10x unfocused than focused - don't be suicidal about it, focus when you actually need to dodge)
Cancelling bullets (small Cherry items)
And big/small Cherry items.

You increase your cherrymax by grazing during a border and if you get hit during a border you won't die but the border will end immediately. If you survive until the end of a border you get 10k Cherrymax and also a score bonus of 10 x your Cherrymax or your Cherry/point item value - not 100% sure what one this is.
You can use borders to dodge for as long as you can then cancel it at the end to sort of cheese attacks. Think of it like a flash bomb.

What exactly is Sakuya focused around ? Is she the go-to-choice for Scoring (Since she starts with 4 bombs and a larger graze area) ?

Sakuya is based around screen coverage with moderate damage in various ways - homing, aimed shots, and weaker bombs you can spam.
SakuyaA is arguably the best survival shot, SakuyaB is by far the best scoring shot, though not for the 4 bombs so much though it contributes.
But I'd say don't worry about scoring for now. It's a lot harder than survival.

Will it be harder or easier than EoSD ?

Easier.

Are the hitboxes as infuriating as EoSD or did ZUN fix it ? (Knifes........)

No, he toned down the hitboxes of the most annoying bullets - Knives, Bubbles and the weird medium bullets. The only one I've really had it bad with are Bubbles though. Knives still have weird hitboxes in later games though.

I wish you luck on your quest to 1cc PCB!

Nolegs basically covered that, but grazing during borders does not increase your Cherry+; it increases your Cherry and CherryMax. There is no way to increase Cherry+ when a border is already active-- it'll last 9 seconds regardless.

You saw nothing Karisa :V
Yeah I meant CheryMax. Le Derp.
Didn't know it increased your Cherry, too, though.

[Karisa]

How does the Cherry Mechanic work ? When do the Borders appear ?

The three numbers in the lower-left are:

Cherry+
Cherry / CherryMax

Cherry+ is the only relevant one for survival, activating a Supernatural Border when it reaches 50,000. It increases by shooting unfocused, collecting cherry items (1000 + 100 per spell captured), and canceled bullets (a small amount in stages 1-5, a much larger amount in stage 6/Extra/Phantasm).

Nolegs basically covered that, but grazing during borders does not increase your Cherry+; it increases your Cherry and CherryMax. There is no way to increase Cherry+ when a border is already active-- it'll last 9 seconds regardless.

Borders auto-collect items (which can help gain more lives if timed well-- there are extends at 1000 and 1200 point items that not everyone reaches), or you can break them for a screen clear, by getting hit or pressing the bomb button. Since Cherry+ increases mainly by shooting unfocused, it can be useful to shoot bosses unfocused at the start of their attacks, when it's safe.

Cherry is the game's point item value (and also determines how many points grazing adds to spell bonuses). It increases whenever you gain Cherry+ or CherryMax, but only up to your CherryMax. Cherry decreases significantly when you die or bomb.

CherryMax increases by timing out borders (+10,000) or by grazing during borders (+80 unfocused, +30 focused).

See also the PCB gameplay wiki page.

What exactly is Sakuya focused around ? Is she the go-to-choice for Scoring (Since she starts with 4 bombs and a larger graze area) ?

Well, there are 2 Sakuya shots, so there's not just "Sakuya". They don't have much in common besides the 4 bombs per life.

SakuyaA is popular among newer players for her focused homing and 4 bombs per life, but has a weak unfocused shot with an extremely low cherry+ gain (you'll time out some patterns if you try to shoot unfocused for cherry+) so you'd rarely get borders. Meanwhile, SakuyaB is an aimable shot, which can be tricky to use at first but has high power and coverage if you can aim it properly.

[Monarda]

Thanks guys ! For now i will stick to filling people with Reimu`s needles, but i`ll try knifes too later.

And i just found out that you can autocollect at the top without full power by Focusing. :V

[Boomer]

EoSD: Does anyone have a good strategy for capturing mid-Sakuya's spellcard in stage 5?  It's especially as ReimuB that I find it quite troublesome.

[Karisa]

And i just found out that you can autocollect at the top without full power by Focusing. :V

That's IN, not PCB.

EoSD: Does anyone have a good strategy for capturing mid-Sakuya's spellcard in stage 5?  It's especially as ReimuB that I find it quite troublesome.

Try staying under where Sakuya stops on the left or right. The bullets are aimed, so it's easier if you don't try to follow her.

[Sonne]

Is there any tips for Hina's first spellcard (the midboss spell)? It's the only of her spells that I have problems to capture x:

[Krompy]

Is there any tips for Hina's first spellcard (the midboss spell)? It's the only of her spells that I have problems to capture x:

Don't try to pass more than  2 waves of bullets at the same time 'cause the holes in them get weird past 2 waves at once.
usually 2 waves will mean one from the top and one from the side, see it as a grid and place yourself in the holes of the grid, you'll be fine with that. 

[Sonne]

Don't try to pass more than  2 waves of bullets at the same time 'cause the holes in them get weird past 2 waves at once.
usually 2 waves will mean one from the top and one from the side, see it as a grid and place yourself in the holes of the grid, you'll be fine with that. 

Thanks c:
On hard I have problem because each wave counts like 2 Dx
When the later grid comes it's like 3 or 4 waves D:

[Sen]

Any tips on beating Kagerou in DDC Stage 3 Lunatic? Specifically her midboss spellcard and her last boss spellcard...but frankly, I'm hopeless with all of them. Playing as MarisaB. My strategy for her midboss spellcard is sitting in front of her, bombing, and hoping I can drain her HP before her the invincibility runs out.

[ふねん1]

While I play as ReimuB, who has a bit of homing to help her out, my approaches to those attacks should work with MarisaB as well. Kagerou's midboss spell is arguably the hardest attack in the stage even when you know how to do it, so don't feel too bad about it. This replay shows my approach. What I like to do is misdirect her first wave to the left, then her second wave down and to the right, roughly where the fewest bullets from the first wave are. After that, I try to have Kagerou aim two waves at roughly the same spot each time, and from there go back and forth between the center and one of the corners. Again, it's still very hard, but this has given me the best results. If you still want to use a bomb, you can misdirect a few waves this way at the start first so the bomb's invincibility will last you longer. Her last spell requires moving around the screen a lot no matter who you're playing as, but a lack of homing probably does hurt here a bit more than usual. Dodging before she goes to the bottom corners primarily involves making sure you don't box yourself in. Once she does go to the bottom, I'm generally the most comfortable dodging the remaining red bullets up towards the middle along one of the sides, though you should be prepared to go a bit higher or lower depending on the pattern. I also recommend circling above Kagerou to get through the purple rings - you can slip through them below her, but it's very risky because of how close the bullets will still be down there. Also keep in mind that Kagerou takes longer to start the odd-numbered waves than the even-numbered ones, so once she finishes her second/fourth/etc. wave, you want to move back under Kagerou to damage her as much as possible before she moves again (especially important with Marisa). Hope that all helps.

[Monarda]

I know i vowed to learn PCB Extra by myself (Got a Route for the Stage Part kinda planned), but i just need to know.

I can`t seem to get Ran`s First Spellcard right, it`s just such a mess i can`t see how to avoid a cluster of bullets spawning so close of me.
Yukari`s Version is much more doable for me from what i could see in Fpurin`s video, someone please enlighten me as to how the hell to do that pattern ?

[Karisa]

Start at one side, and stream it very slowly (tap once per wave of bullets).

Ran's first spell is one of those intimidating-looking Extra spells that's trivial when you know the trick.

[Monarda]

Wait, it`s that simple ? Wow, it might be hard at the start to get the spawn rhythm right, but i guess i can do it.

[SusiKette]

I recently started playing SWR again and I can't get past Reimu's 2nd spell on Marisa's story. There are so many orbs bouncing around that it's nearly impossible to successfully attack in middle of them (Marisa's attacks seem really slow...), and even if I do manage to do that, it most likely either hits the orbs or misses Reimu. How can I get past this attack?

[Monarda]

So does anyone have a video or replay or tips for Yukari's "Boundary of Humans and Youkai" (The first survival card). I'm sure it's just memorization, so this will be helpful.

[ZoomyTsugumi]

Generally the idea is to move through the bullet criss-crosses one stream at a time, because doing two streams at once can be weird to time unless you're experienced. IIRC there are two paths the laser circle will move starting from the middle, I'm not sure what decides which path (placement maybe?), but with enough replaying you can get a feel for it. But if you really wanna learn the movement pattern preemptively, just take a look at a video and try and copy the movements a bit. Once you know roughly where the circle will go you can use tricks like not fully dodging through all streams so that you can cut back through the opposite way faster.

The last phase however is really really weird, and even I struggle a bit with it sometimes. It's really just tight dodging that gets tighter and tighter, if you aren't good at it you aren't good at it, only practice can help with that one.

I recently started playing SWR again and I can't get past Reimu's 2nd spell on Marisa's story. There are so many orbs bouncing around that it's nearly impossible to successfully attack in middle of them (Marisa's attacks seem really slow...), and even if I do manage to do that, it most likely either hits the orbs or misses Reimu. How can I get past this attack?

I'm not sure what difficulty you are playing on (or how much that affects anything) but I've just tested on Lunatic and spamming lasers from the opposite side of the screen from Reimu seems to be the answer. There appears to be a short period of time right after the new wave of orbs is released where the old ones disappear and the new ones are yet to bounce and that should be taken advantage of. Generally my strategy for SWR story mode is to spam the best C move you can (in Marisa's case, Her 5[C] and her laser) and pray that you don't die. Luckily SWR is more forgiving than IaMP, but then again, I'm no fighting game expert :P

[ふねん1]

So does anyone have a video or replay or tips for Yukari's "Boundary of Humans and Youkai" (The first survival card). I'm sure it's just memorization, so this will be helpful.

If you don't mind a shameless plug lol.

Zoomy already got most of the general points down. And yes, where the laser wheel goes at the start is based on your position. As for the last phase, it looks tighter than it really is. As shown in my video, you can move slightly into the glowing spots at the ends of the lasers and still not get hit. You don't want to rely on that per se, but it can help.

[MrDoomBringer]

How long does it usually take to get a first Lunatic 1cc? I started playing Touhou about 6 months ago and I still can't 1cc EoSD Lunatic. :ohdear:

[Mikuru]

6 months would be unnaturally quick. I've been playing for 15 (admittedly, I kind of stopped for a while and then came back) and haven't 1cced Hard yet (though I am close).

[Monarda]

How long does it usually take to get a first Lunatic 1cc? I started playing Touhou about 6 months ago and I still can't 1cc EoSD Lunatic. :ohdear:

That is a ?-Factor, since it changes among players, ex: some players get their first 1CC normal in just a week or two, others take a month (me), others take two.

There's is also the amount of time your input on it, the problems you're having (streaming issues, can't figure out a pattern, can't create a proper stage route, etc.) and the character you're using along with the shot type.

I'd say don't worry about it and just do your best, watch some videos, think of new strats, you're bound to hit gold if you do that.

[Sakurei]

6 months would be unnaturally quick. I've been playing for 15 (admittedly, I kind of stopped for a while and then came back) and haven't 1cced Hard yet (though I am close).

It's not unnaturally quick at all. With the right mindset, methods and input, getting your first lunatic clears within half a year is perfectly possible. I know a player who started in November 2013 and has a handful of world records now. Similarly, there's some players I know who have got an LNB and barely played for a year or so. A lot of it is the overall approach to the games, since on the flip side you can have "played" for six or seven years and still have trouble with easy mode clears.