Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all

[Mr Jovial]

Looked through the first 3 replays and the lunatic one, from the times on the replays, these look like regular attempts and they're really well done. Honestly, at this point you're good enough at VoWG and you just need to practice the rest of the game until you can get to VoWG with a spare life and that's not difficult at all, especially when a lot of 1ccers need to make it to VoWG with 2 or more spare lives to even stand a chance. To be honest, that lunatic attempt is on par/better than what most lunatic 1ccers would get. If you're really insistent on a no death VoWG in a 1cc, I'd suggest practicing going through the parallel amulets. Whenever you see that you can go through them in a practice run, go through them even if you could go round. It'll give you a bit of practice for when you don't have an option but to go through. Though I'd still strongly recommend learning the rest of the game. Can't help you much with VoWG anymore, but there might be other attacks worth learning in other stages; where do you frequently die in a 1cc attempt outside of VoWG?

[KirisameMar_113]

From my last 1cc attempt, I died on:
- Right after Momiji
- Aya's 3rd Nonspell
- Stage 5 Opening
- Sanae's second last spellcard
- Stage 6 Opening
- Unremembered Crop (Kanako's Second Spellcard)
- Kanako's Last Nonspell
- Source of Rains
- VoWG

But mostly I always died on Aya's second spellcard, Right after Momiji, Sanae's Second Last Spellcard, Unremembered Crop, Bubble thing phase on Kanako's Last Nonspell, Source of Rains, and VoWG. I think I should do another attempt on this.

EDIT: dunno why I always died on Minoriko's First Spellcard and Hina's Midboss Spellcard, almost break a mug because of my mad.

[Mr Jovial]

Those deaths sound like fairly normal places except for Kanako's last spell. You shouldn't really be dying to consecutive attacks like that. Source of Rains is difficult, fair enough. But dying to it and the nonspell before it isn't good. Bubble phase is aimed so if you were to learn the movements that someone else does (copy them from a replay, a lunatic replay will probably work too), you should have no problem with it. Also keep in mind bubbles are a lot smaller than they look, pretty much the only part that will kill you is the coloured centre part. Also, if you die in the first 2 stages, restart. If you die on stage 3, strongly consider restarting. You only get 9 lives in MoF so it's best not to waste them.

Personally, I'd bomb Hina's midboss card. You can do it but the rest of the stage until Hina is easy and you'll probably be back at full power by the time you reach her at the end of the stage. The medium sized circle bullets are aimed in Minoriko's first, remember that when you're dodging through the lines. Other than that, good luck. You should have this clear soon since you're far better at VoWG than you need to be and with minimal stupid deaths, you'll clear easily.

[KirisameMar_113]

I think I'm not really n a good health today, like danmaku makes me dizzy (I think I should do this again when I'm better). But actually I could clear this if I just don't die stupidly. This morning I spent 20 minutes on first two stages, mostly died on Minoriko's first spell and Hina's bad luck spell. And the best attempt I did was until source of rains (Aya's last spellcard killed me stupidly when I changed rows from blue arrow thing bullets). If I can reach Kanako with 3 or 4 lives and 5 power, I should be able to complete clear this game. Also, is it a good idea to practice stages in lunatic and play the game in hard? Oh and unremembered crop is very hard for me, like if the bullet touches a bit of the hitbox, I died.

Btw, I also have a problem with Seija Stage 6 second nonspell.

Edit: wait, 9 lives? isn't it 6? (4 from score, 2 from nitori and sanae)

[Mr Jovial]

Unremembered Crop is very clipdeathy. It's a risk to attempt it in a 1cc since it's a pain to tell if you're going to get hit or not and that leads to wasted bombs. It might help to know that if you stay at the bottom of the screen and hold down then you move left and right more slowly which might help give you the precision you need.

Seija's non can be done with very little movement. Find a spot where you can stay still and move when necessary. Here's an example, look at 1:34 onwards.

It's 9 lives if you count the starting 3.

[Failure McFailFace]

I only have 1 more level in DS's EX and 4 more levels in total to unlock Hatate.

Which scenes do you recommend? I have everything up to the Ichirin/Murasa level, then it gets more and more scattered.

[Sakurei]

It would be helpful for us if you named the scenes you are missing. I can say some random scenes but that won't help you if you already have that scene cleared. Very imprecise question there.

[Failure McFailFace]

It would be helpful for us if you named the scenes you are missing. I can say some random scenes but that won't help you if you already have that scene cleared. Very imprecise question there.

6-3, 6-8, 7-1, 7-3, 7-7, 8-2 to 8-8, 9-1, 9-2, 9-4, 9-6 to 9-8, 10-1, 10-2, 10-4 to 10-8, 11-2, 11-3, 11-5 to 11-8, 12-1 to 12-4, 12-6 to 12-8, and EX-2 to 8.

[I have no name]

(9-7) You dodge and take pictures.  That's the only trick.  Once your reading ability gets good enough you can recover from missed shots, but for now, you're probably going to need to grind attempts until you get lucky.

EX-2: Try to cancel as many familiars as possible with each shot, and charge close to Marisa.
EX-3: Dodge the bullets in charge, take pictures.
EX-4: I find it easiest to stay about 3 "circles" down, and stay in focused speed and just move with the flow, stopping only to dash back across under.  Take pictures outside the "circles" though.
EX-5: Cancel 4 familiars with the first shot of each wave.  Spiral around Marisa and try to dodge.  Probably the hardest EX stage.
EX-6: Take a photo as soon as the explosion is about to hit you from Sanae's side, and then just charge and shoot 3 more.  It's a bit tricky, but this is the most consistent way I've found.
EX-7: Dodge Reimu, cancel the rings.  She always orbits clockwise.
EX-8: Kind of hard to explain in words, so here's a replay. Note that I tap shift before taking a shot-this auto-aligns the camera towards Marisa.

9-2 is just charge and then focused circle, cancel the green hearts.  Then unfocused circle, repeat.
10-1 is very easy, just dash off to the side when the red bullets spawn and take a picture, then charge up and repeat.
12-1 is as simple as move right, move left, move right, move left in charge speed, taking pictures.

[Failure McFailFace]

12-1 is as simple as move right, move left, move right, move left in charge speed, taking pictures.

I can't complete this, I only end up with 2 shots left.

Do you have any other suggestions?

[I have no name]

This is the best way to do it..

I actually could not clear the scene until I saw a replay while working on DSDQ, now I never fail it in speedrun attempts.
The video linked could potentially be used for other scenes as well, though in many cases the strategy used is harder than another approach, though sometimes it's the only one worth using (6-3 and 6-8 come to mind).

[Failure McFailFace]

Alright, I got the Spoiler stage and completed all of Aya's scenes and Hatate's first scene. (Hatate is hard to use!)

Any advice for Spoiler-6 to Spoiler-9?

[Yookie]

Those scenes are interesting to beat with Aya once you've cleared them with Hata. You really feel how slow she charges in comparison.

S-6:  Stay away until she made her photo, dash in, take photo, dash out, repeat.
        There is not much strategy involved in this one since you absolutely cannot evade her frame if you are too close to her.

S-7: Move into a corner, wait until she starts moving to you and take a photo once you meet her in the middle of the screen, repeat.

S-8: Like that drunken Orin; kinda. Take a photo, dash past her. Until she changes direction you should have your charge ready.
       Watch out for the flip.

S-9: Dodge. Stay close to her.


Imho Hatate is somewhat cheezy. :V She trivializes most scenes. (Only a few are harder with her)

[KirisameMar_113]

Sorry if this changes the topic, but I need some help on SA Hard now, I always never can dodge these (I'm using Reimu A):
- Kisume's Spellcard, and Yamame's Last Spellcard
- Parsee's Last Spellcard and Midboss Nonspell
- Yugi's Second Nonspell, Wind Blowing Down (bubbles), and the nonspell after that
- Orin's Stage 4 first nonspell, Satori First and Second Nonspells
- Whole Stage 5 (because I'm really bad at stage 5)
- Youkai Blazing Wheel, Okuu's First Spellcard (Always getting trapped), and Okuu's Second and Fourth Nonspells

I am really bad at stage 5, I must say stage 5 is harder than stage 6. Thanks
(Oh and for MoF, I give up and used Marisa B, I will go back to it with Reimu A sometime)

And just wondering, how do I do this? Always died because colliding with orin.

[Oh]

- How do I do this? Always died because colliding with orin.

I don't think you're supposed to do that...

[Drake]

Arf's secret technique videos aren't for general play lol

[KirisameMar_113]

Arf's secret technique videos aren't for general play lol

Oh I just wondering about that, that's actually not my real question. I thought that method is not that hard until I realized orin collides with me and I died. Well ignore that question then (but I still hope somebody answers that )

[Inadequate]

And just wondering, how do I do this? Always died because colliding with orin.

It's explained in the video description. The trick is stupidly tight to be done on a full run, and the nonspell is fairly easy to dodge at the bottom so I would advice against it.

[KirisameMar_113]

Okay forget that question (I didn't see that there's an explanation in the desc, well for me dodging at the bottom is hard, and I thought that doing that trick is easier), now please help me, here are my questions (again):

Sorry if this changes the topic, but I need some help on SA Hard now, I always never can dodge these (I'm using Reimu A):
- Kisume's Spellcard, and Yamame's Last Spellcard
- Parsee's Last Spellcard and Midboss Nonspell
- Yugi's Second Nonspell, Wind Blowing Down (bubbles), and the nonspell after that
- Orin's Stage 4 first nonspell, Satori First and Second Nonspells
- Whole Stage 5 (because I'm really bad at stage 5)
- Youkai Blazing Wheel, Okuu's First Spellcard (Always getting trapped), and Okuu's Second and Fourth Nonspells

I am really bad at stage 5, I must say stage 5 is harder than stage 6.

Thanks

[Mr Jovial]

Kisume's spellcard: Dodge the balls, remember you can warp across the screen. Avoid the fat lasers.
Yamame's last: Fast dodging.
Parsee's mid: Misdirect the aimed bullets then dodge through some lines. Misdirection is not very big, you're going too far if Reimu's focused shots stop hitting Parsee.
Parsee's last: Misdirect the aimed things. Predict when they'll fire and move accordingly.
Yugi's 2nd: If this is midboss non, stream the aimed stuff and dodge the rest. If it's the end boss non, destroy some yin yang orbs unfocused and dodge.
Wind: Dodge, bubbles are smaller than they look.
Yugi's post wind non: Stream like in the video.
Orin's non: Make small circles.
Satori's 1st/2nd: Tight dodges that can be memorised. Might help to know that holding down while at the bottom of the screen then moving horizontally means you move slower.
Stage 5: Idk lol. You need to be more specific anyway...
Blazing Wheel: Left right repeat.
Okuu's 1st: Force 2 suns to aim at the same position, dodge the small bullets while moving around the suns.
Okuu's nons: Aimed bubbles, you can go around the lines on the 2nd and 3rd set of lines of each wave. The 1st set has to be dodged but has wider gaps on one side of the screen, starting on the left then alternating.

If anything doesn't make sense (Okuu's nons probably don't) then look at Nindel's LNN. For the most part, hard has the same patterns as lunatic just toned down a bit. Sorry about being vague but it's a pretty big list of tuff and I'm lazy + not too knowledgeable about SA outside of Stage 4 and 6.

[Mero]

For the most part, what Jovial already said is true, but to add some details:
-Kisume follows you, so you can lure her to one side and finish her without restreaming/gapping
-Yamame's last is static, so find a reliable way of doing it, and do it everytime
-for Parsee's last, pay attention to the "charge" sounds to misdirect her attacks
-for Yugi's post-Wind non, don't PoC, ever. you can go to the bottom right corner to misdirect the bullets and collect the items
-Satori's nons are also static, I suggest you use the "Enemy" marker at the bottom to help your positioning

here's some replays of stages 5 & 6
A little note on Stage 5, depending on how comfortable you feel with them, you can time down Orin's midboss nons to reduce the popcorn section.
On stage 6, you can actually do midboss Orin without unfocusing, but the timing can be a little bit strict. Also, if you have a bomb handy, use it halfway through the card (around the 10th wave) and you'll finish it when the bomb goes off.

[Karisa]

For Parsee's midboss nonspell, there's also a way to sort-of-safespot the first few seconds by staying close to Parsee-- all you need to dodge is a few aimed bullets from below. It's used in Nindel's video. (It won't work at low power, but since this is only stage 2 it shouldn't take that much practice to reach it with higher power.)

Also both of Yuugi's laser nonspells are memorizable, so you can learn a safe spot for each color-- the blue lasers in her 2nd midboss pattern are static based on her position (and the red lasers are aimed), and both types of laser in her last boss nonspell are position-static.

And Orin's stage 6 midboss spell is all about moving precisely. I found it easier to unfocus to move then briefly focus before reversing. If you need practice, anyway, it helps that it's near the start of the stage on your way to Utsuho (continue-spam there if you haven't unlocked stage 6 for stage practice).

[KirisameMar_113]

- I have no really much problem anymore in stage 1 since I can retry if I died in that stage :p
- Parsee's last spell is not that hard after 3 misdirects, I can't handle those bullets anymore (practice maybe?)
- I need help on Yugi boss first nonspell too, its actually too tight to dodge.
- Sorry for stage 4 I mean orin's second nonspell (not the beginning one)
- For Stage 5 I need help on first orin nonspell, cat walk (have problems for dodging), orin second and third spellcard
- Actually I'm just afraid if I hit the bullets when I do unfocused moves, kinda surprising if it happens.

And I have another two questions:
- Is bomb spamming good for SA?
- Which type of bullets that are safe to pass in between them (when they are tight)?

Thank you very much for your tips and help, especially that okuu second and last nonspell :p wish me luck on this hard 1cc.
I actually have done 2cc on hard (continued in stage 6).
(sorry if I am too noobish, because I feel that I keep become noob by asking stupid questions and replied things stupidly)

[CyberAngel]

There is no way (as far as I know). But if you are having difficulty reacting to them, try starting higher up on the screen, and moving down with them for a bit until you feel comfortable going into the gap. This method will keep the green bullets in your (literal in-game) field of vision earlier, giving you more time to react (compared to hugging the bottom).

I know I'm horribly late, but I took note of this and got to try it just now, and it sure beats staying down and praying nothing flies your way, even though you need some training to learn how to do it properly.

[Mr Jovial]

- Stage 1 stuff: Ok.
- Parsee's last: When you're not misdirecting the aimed things, focus all of Reimu's needles onto Parsee. If  you do and you're at 4.00 power then you shouldn't need to dodge for very long at the end.
- Yugi's 1st: Not sure on this one.
- S4 Orin's 2nd: At full power, do what is done in the video. Start about centre of the screen then stream downwards. If you do this, you should end the nonspell before the blues reach you (though you need to keep dealing damage to Orin throughout). If not at full power, destroy the fireballs since they spawn the blue balls. Also keep in mind that Orin will instantly start the next wave if all the fireballs are destroyed before they explode. A badly timed bomb will cause problems since the AoE will normally destroy all of the fireballs.
-Stage 5 stuff: Again, not sure.
-Blazing Wheel: Guess its worth practicing your unfocused movement then.

-Bomb spam in SA is less powerful than in MoF because you only go up to 4 power rather than 5 and they deal less damage. It's still advised to spam bombs though, especially outside of bosses because you'll often break even on power/profit power, especially since Reimu A's bomb is fairly powerful.
-I'd probably say that bubbles and amulets are easy to pass between. If you've got tight gaps with anything else (excluding Satori's nonspells which are always tight) then you might want to bomb. I might be forgetting some though. General rule of thumb is that its easier for bigger bullets, though the big exception to this are Okuu's suns; you can just about get your entire hitbox covered by the opaque part of the graphic (ie, ignore the glow) but any deeper and you're probably dead.

EDIT: A question of my own, any tips for LFS? I know about the LFS patch and how you stop shooting for the first wave of light purple amulets before the reds show up, but I'm struggling with the last few waves. Can't seem to handle the purples + reds onwards.

[Inadequate]

Is bomb spamming good for SA?

Yes.

[Failure McFailFace]

Yes.

H-How??

Wh-why???

What is this sorcery???  :V

[Oh]

It's called a route.

[MrL1193]

Any tips on capturing Utsuho's Blazing Star on Hard/Lunatic without the safe line method? The way the rotating suns pass each other makes dodging a lot more awkward than on Normal and it's really throwing me off.

[CyberAngel]

What approaches are there for Hollow Giant "Woo"? I find circling around Mokou works best for me, but it means less time actually shooting her, so I'm afraid characters that aren't as big monsters up close as Yuyuko might have a harder time. I have quite some trouble surviving enough laps even with her, despite the fact that there are less bullets flying around if you do it right.

Speaking of which, same about Fujiyama Volcano. I prefer going around Mokou, but actually shooting her might prove troublesome with other characters. I just hope I'm not missing something easy or obvious for these two attacks.