Omerta - Town of Mafia (Game over Scum wins)

[ActionDan]

I also revoke my town read of Bard.  But will keep my town read on Serela

[Serela]

ActionDan you keep saying you're town but you really haven't commented on anything other than roleshens for a pretty darn long time

and scum can easily talk about roleshens

[Serela]

I skimmed End Of D1 and remembered why I felt good about Dan before, but when you come back please do scumhunting ;_;

Speaking of that, I need to do more of that too. E.g.:I'm not voting right now. I'll get on reading shortly~ Kinda hungry though.

[Dorian White]

A smile will get you pretty far... but a smile and a gun will get you further

Zakeri (1): Raikaria
ActionDan (2): O4rfish, Zakeri


Not voting: Serela, Sky_Paladin, ActionDan, Darkninjaabc, Schezo


With 8 mooks kicking, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 Timer

[Serela]

RL immediately pulled me away but I at least got the preliminary PoE out of the way. It actually cuts out more than expected.

Sky_Paladin
Zakeri
ActionDan
Raikaria

I -guess- there's Bard's slot, but. Dan I've addressed (Good feeling from end-of-d1, but lack of scumhunting else is :/ and even end-of-d1 culminated in "You should lynch Cheez, even though he has 0 votes and deadline is in a few hours. ") Zak I'd rather not vote ATM but I haven't reread yet so maybe I'll change my mind, and... I need to reread for either of the other two >_>; It turns out I might have to leave to work on my day off (noooo) but otherwise I'll be rereading pretty soon.

[Serela]

Might sound reportery but I'm only pointing out the parts that should be directly relevant/interesting in terms of potential alignments. Everyone knows about the ED1 SkyPal shenanigans so not restating.

-NNR's #50. Tentative vote/case on SkyPal, plus Dan immediately declares the post town.
-not relevant but O@rfish's (oh wait it's O4rfish... >_>; #59 about having a dream where he daycopped NNR and got a scum result is hilarious in hindsight

Oh yeah, here's that SkyPal section where he puts a good bit of effort into casing NNR, and then several minutes later jumps in with "Nevermind!" and votes Raikaria with an IMO pretty weak, nit-picky case and a sheep of Bard's one that I didn't exactly agree with as stated at the time.

Right now I'm gonna stick with Sky for 'Not me Over me' purposes, but I'll happily vote Bardiche or PX over him right now.

mixed with the "raikaria d1 playstyle weirdness shenanigans as happens every game" is this, which in itself just feels really weird >_> This was only page 4. Then again maybe this is just more "PLAYSTYLE WEIRDNESS SHENANIGANS", because the rest of the post it's in is full of content and stuff. Followed by that OMGUS on Bard soon after, but I probably would have been kinda miffed if Bard had used that case on me, so...
...so I just realized I'm going into everyone's expected Serela Waffles time ;_; Moving on with my reread

why -does- schezo have vore in his autocorrect

At #163 Raikaria's priorities drop to "I agree with NNR, and let's lynch a lurker", which isn't explicitly bad but it's not impressive :/

hoooooly wall against mitsuki from SkyPal. This is a lot of effort. People who remember SkyPal's meta better, do you think he'd do Post #188 as scum? This is a legit question I am asking and I am actually interested in getting a response. Anyway SkyPal's been absent between this and my last mention of him, mostly- not a point against him but just a note. Shortly after is where Dan's slew of catchup shows up, by the way

NNR thinks SkyPal is "pretty awful" and that "Mostly his cases are shit. Like, utterly."

Raikaria votes PX near deadline because Raikaria cannot comprehend PX's awkward near-day-end post. I have to admit I have some trouble interpreting it too, but... >> I dunno. Most of Raikaria's posts make me go "Well, I suppose I can understand them doing this, but", and having that reaction -so often- makes me concerned.

And no I don't want to lynch Zakeri, still. I guess I mostly ignored analyzing Bard much but nothing really jumped out at me from him, so.

Day 2 was mostly pretty cut and dry so I guess my reread is done here at the end of D1. Time to sort out my priorities from this.

[Serela]

Okay.

SkyPaladin:I want other's opinions on him. I might want to lynch him today but it depends on how people feel about that Mitsuki wall, because it's pretty effortful. I guess I shouldn't be using that to pass him as being more town-y, though?
Raikaria:As said near the end of that reread post, my repeated "Well, it's not -that- bad, but..." reaction to his posts concerns me >>;

Not lynching Zak, I kind of didn't pay as much attention to Bard!slot as I should but I highly doubt we should be lynching it, all the non-mentioned living players are myself or townclears (Schezo, O4rfish) and I guess I'm taking a "wait-and-see" approach on Dan. That's okay though, I think I'm down with lynching SkyPal or Raikaria today.

[Raikaria]

the question: why did Cheez die?
The answer of course, is that Cheez was the only one who suspected NNR and ActionDan of working together.
In no other respect was Cheez more killable n1 than say Zak or Bard or Schezo.

Let's look at NNR and ActionDan interactions d1.
RVS ActionDan votes himself. CF7 asks why, for which crime NNR votes him.
Bard writes a post, Dan reads him as town, NNR says he needs more info for a read.
NNR writes a post, Dan reads him as town.
NNR asks Dan who he views as scummy, Dan says nobody.
Cheez writes his case on NNR based on him favoring Dan.
After no responses from NNR or Dan, Cheez switches to Raikaria.
Much later, NNR and Dan both make dodge posts. Dan never does post until more than 24 hours later.

Dan returns to the thread and calls Zak and Cheez scummy based on page 1 and 2, even though he had claimed to not be suspicious of anybody, at the bottom of page 2. He then votes Cheez because of Cheez's case on NNR.

I think NNR and ActionDan are 2/3 of the scumteam.
##Vote: ActionDan

Hmm, interesting case. I find it strange that Cheez was killed as well. For that matter I found Mitsuki a little strange too, but I think that one was probobly PX's Vig shot, since several people stated a dislike towards Mitsuki.

I'm going to sleep on this, I'm pretty busy atm. I warned you guys about this pre-game :/

[Serela]

I don't get how that makes Dan scum. O4rfish are you arguing Dan is scum because the person he was trying to lynch got nightkilled? That's backwards >> Raikaria why are you agreeing? Well, no, you said it's "interesting", I guess that's different nevermind >>;

[WHMZakeri]

It's nothing to do with the fact that He suspected Cheez8, but rather because Cheez8 was uncovering relations between NNR and Dan, which would become more incriminating once NNR flipped.

[Serela]

Huh.

I see where you're coming from now, albiet I had to try really hard to accomplish this. XD

I don't think I quite agree, but I do -understand- why you people are voting Dan now, and it at least makes sense.

[DNAbc]

lolwhat

zak you managed to contradict yourself in one sentence in your defense against quickhammer

>you like quickhammers
>you do it alot as scum
>but somehow 'it' never occurs :S

since given the context of your sentences , i would assume the it means quickhammering. if that really is the case i have no idea whats going on in your head because the first and third logic chains clearly dont connect.

and guys i want dan to die in a fire enough, but hes an oddball who should not really be lynched here because of the guaranteed weird things he does with roles. it may be satisfying to punch the people whom meta you dont agree with but theres certainly a juicer target(zak) here who quickhammered and buddied nnr very hard during D2. just look at the posts made by zak, he escalated from 'no guys nnr is town' to 'blaa4gh scumZ quickhammer' without any explanation. i honestly cannot ignore this gents.

[O4rfish]

It's nothing to do with the fact that He suspected Cheez8, but rather because Cheez8 was uncovering relations between NNR and Dan, which would become more incriminating once NNR flipped.

Or, you know, after the vig killed ActionDan.

[O4rfish]

In fact, if ActionDan had died n1 instead of Mitsuki, and Schezo had not claimed guilty on NNR, Cheez's death would have been easy enough to brush away.

[O4rfish]

and yet in that hypothetical situation, Cheez being dead would still be valuable to scum.

Hmm, interesting case. I find it strange that Cheez was killed as well. For that matter I found Mitsuki a little strange too, but I think that one was probobly PX's Vig shot, since several people stated a dislike towards Mitsuki.

I'm going to sleep on this, I'm pretty busy atm. I warned you guys about this pre-game :/

Actually, PX killed Mitsuki because Skypal noticed she was defending me pretty hard. The three possibilities were: she was scum bursting town me; she and I were scum; and she and I were Masons. Nobody realized the truth, and we just had to hope for the best if we didn't want to claim right away.

[O4rfish]

(I'm not Raikaria I swear)
(phone autocorrected buddying to bursting)

[WHMZakeri]

>you like quickhammers

Correct

>you do it alot as scum
>but somehow 'it' never occurs :S

Incorrect.
I said I don't do it as scum because I paralyze myself worrying that people will think I'm scum for quickhammering. There are even times in the past I remember I could have quickhammered as scum and thinking back, a lot of those times I didn't do well anyways so I might have benefited from Quick hammering town then. That's something to think about for future games though.

I strongly disagree with the notion that the case on Dan is based on meta. I personally have been trying to ignore the fact that he doesn't bother to comment on alignments other than to give face value reads with no supporting evidence, but even with that hampering the situation I feel like the links between him and NNR, especially with Chees8's death involved look strong enough to be used as legitimate evidence against him.

The point about me going from zero to quicklynch in less than six seconds - it's important to think carefully about it. specifically about what possible motivations a scum aligned player and a town aligned player would go about the situation of having a townie claim guilty on a scumpartner.

Cut: I don't think Mitsuki being vigged is strange, since I was convinced by Sky's case at the end of day one. I think I even mentioned at the beginning of day 2 that I wanted to start the day voting her.

[Serela]

ITT darkie misses what the case on dan is actually about

[Sky_Paladin]

My case on Mitsuki was legitimate, there was just one problem:  The reason for her performance was because she was a mason and was presumably doing most of the things that I said were absent in her quicktopic.  Which is really disappointing because we basically killed one of the strongest players because of my mistake. 

My case took the same general form as my case on Rche, which is to say, I picked out the points that I thought were scummy, said why they were scummy, then summarised it and voted.  In AUS mafia when I was scum I tried to make some (poor) cases against Raikaria which went badly and nearly got me lynched for it.  I'll probably continue to make cases in this manner but I need to improve the accuracy.  So far:
Rche = scum, yes!
Shadoweh = serial killer, no! (Because I was the serial killer trying to frame Shadoweh who I thought was scum). 
Mitsuki = scum, no!  (Because she was actually a mason). 

So 1/3 isn't great, hopefully I can make it 2/4 or even 3/5 before the game is over. 

Anyway I largely agree with Oarfish's case.  It reads pretty much what I would accuse Dan of myself; largely he towncleared NNR and randomly pushed for a lynch of Cheez and then Cheez died.  I think it fits the case of mafia that were panicking that somebody was too close.  We could also argue that well maybe mafia hit Cheez to implicate Dan, but I think they would have been better off hitting Mitsuki to implicate Sky.  Which is actually what I first thought happened when Mitsuki died.  I thought Cheez was a vighit from Dan until PX claimed it. 

Worst case scenario we lynch somebody who isn't actually helpful and we break the meta of only mislynching active and contributing townies. 

##vote ActionDan

About role shenanigans:

We have a scum roleblocker and no serial killer. 

TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, and we have MMCV + 1 role unaccounted for. 

0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, and we have MMCV + 3 roles unaccounted for. 

There's at least one towny out there who is sitting on a power role.  If we consider the flavor it's probably a one-shot doc. 

Considering the setup, that leaves my estimation of events very similar to what Serela posted earlier, except that she neglected to include her own name. 

Serela
Sky_Paladin
Zakeri
ActionDan
Raikaria
Bardiche

Bard's slot is a bit scummy because he has thus far jumped on pretty easy no-hunting votes.  Jumped on Serela OMGUS.  Jumped on Sky for 'retcon'.  Jumped on Zak for quickhammer.  Has made one case on Raikaria that was good enough for me to vote along with when I had ironically already voted NNR. 

[Serela]

Considering the setup, that leaves my estimation of events very similar to what Serela posted earlier, except that she neglected to include her own name. 

obv. I'm not going to vote myself you know

[Serela]

[Bard's slot] Jumped on Zak for quickhammer.

???????????

[Sky_Paladin]

DNA voted for Zak because of Zak's quickhammer. 

[O4rfish]

I think Sky is saying that when Ninja attacked Zak for quickhammering, it didn't require much scumhunting of him. I dunno if that's a fair criticism, but I do think this game will be easy town win if scumteam is NNR ActionDan Zak.
It's all about the d1 interactions. Poor Mitsuki wasn't careful enough to hide her knowledge of me. Assuming ActionDan is scum, his interactions are obvious.
Bard/DNA doesn't have too many incriminating interactions unless both he and Skypal are scum. I think they are both town.

At this point, I would go so far as to say, if Dan is scum, Zak is too. If Dan is not scum, Schezo probably is, along with someone else, but this is less likely.

[DNAbc]

>I won't quickhammer as scum because I am paranoid
>I disagree Dan wagon is based on meta
Status Quo: Dan is being usual Dan. Its ridiculous but it's true.
>I like to think CAREFULLY before quickhammers, so I quicklynched

>Hey guys it just somehow popped up but I would like to lead you all on a wild goose chase of vig and SK killshens.

Wow man, I don't understand any of that.
Let's just assume you are talking about truths here. Every single statement above made by you are true.

It's most likely a compliment.

##Unvote: Schezo
##Vote: NekoNekoRex

Then what's this. You are supposed to not quickhammer as scum, therefore you must be town for quickhammering. But wait! As you have just told us that you only quickhammers after you got a coherent train of thought. How could this quickhammering post happen when your opinion of NNR is something like this;

Because Town!NNR is calling out Schezo!Scum super hard and he figured he could get one more mislynch in before NNR manages to convince us that his poor play is the result of him not being town.

Honestly, Schezo's cop claim does look a little fake, specifically that he OMGUS shot and claims to have gotten a scum result doing that, as oppose to just trying to pick out someone that people are going to be super suspicious about like PX, Sky, or whoever Sky thought was scum. That plus the fact that he has no response to the call for a crumb other than "ugh" really feels like he's responding to being caught in a lie.

I was probably going to vote Mitsuki for information and then switch to PX but I'd rather see more of this develop. [Insert vote for Schezo]

(Yes I know Mitsuki flipped, but that was my plan before reading.)

Sure, you say. You did remark that there's the possibility of NNR lying, but the biggest problem here is obviously your vote. Both cases are lengthed similarly, but somehow in the end you decided to vote Schezo, then in the very next post you just quickhammered NNR. I seriously cannot see any justifications for your behavior in cutting off the day.

##Vote: Zakeri

[DNAbc]

I have no idea why is me detailing a case on Zakeri, based on his interactions with everybody else and his posts made by D1, takes ''little'' effort.

Quoting is not an easy task, I am deciphering intent behind his incredibly vague statements which conflict themselves, and by pointing out said contradictions I am at the same time convincing you all while not doing what is  a relatively much more simple option; just rant about empty analysises and conspiracy theory. Its not easy to provide examples for every argument but I am doing exactly that. How is that a lack of effort on my part. In fact I would argue that your one sentence empty accusation on me is more incriminating. But hey.


The point is that Dan!meta involves him being unresponsive to everything thus being scummy, I don't like it but I am playing to win, so I would want to actually avoid a likely mislynch. And guys, stop playing dumb. We all know quickhammering is scummy for it interrupts discussion. And with the direction D2 was going it's likely any further discussion would've lead to a massclaim. That's why scum would at least like to cut off discussion so a potential Godfather can be faked. Zakeri just doesn't have any justifications for quickhammering as town. Through pure logic I just believe Zakeri is more lynchworthy than Dan, whose ....[adjective] behavioral trend is inherently scummy. I just want to wait until I see more material from Dan before I vote for him, simple.

[O4rfish]

DNA presenting coherent argument. 
I think this deserves some appreciation, and since my guess is NNR AD Z ...
##Unvote, Vote Zak
Unfortunately this will require one more vote as AD will probably not vote for Zak unlike how Zak voted for AD.

[Serela]

Darkie that's... not the case on dan

their case is all the interactions he made with NNR d1... apparently. I mean I don't really agree but I can see where they're coming from and it makes sense at least

Whilst I'd really rather not lynch Zakeri either I don't have anything I can do to point out "hey guys this is why Zakeri isn't scum", so >_>; It's not like anyone is interested in lynching Zak or Raikaria for that matter. I'll sit over here in my corner. ;_;

Also O4rfish, Zak is only l-2, not l-1.

Unfortunately this will require one more vote as AD will probably not vote for Zak unlike how Zak voted for AD.

and AD would surely vote Zakeri over himself getting lynched if it came down to it

Darkie should really give up the argument he's having with Zakeri because that's the kind of wordlogic game that's not going to help reveal anyone's alignment ever. Even if they're logically saying something incorrect, with minor stuff like that it really isn't going to give you much >_>; That being said if you think Zak's quickhammer is super scummy I can't really argue that it wasn't. I mean it wasn't -super- scummy but it was somewhat scummy, regardless of how much I may be happy he did it <_<; It'd be cool if we lynched caught scum quickly more often.

[Serela]

It's not like anyone is interested in lynching Zak or Raikaria for that matter. I'll sit over here in my corner. ;_;

skypal or raikaria*

I didn't even get a response for my questions ;_;

[Serela]

Darkie should really give up the argument he's having with Zakeri

Restated for EMPHASIS >:C I'm starting to consider that maybe overlooking Bard's slot was a bad idea after all. Someone mentioned Bard taking "easy" votes and DNA's just voting Zak off quickhammer and having this ridiculous argument over how he worded his post and about meta, which makes it look like he's actually grilling his scumspect except it's completely pointless.

[DNAbc]

Serela.

You call the case on Dan as ''based off his interactions'' D1.

I am concluding that there's not enough interaction to draw a conclusion.
--------------------------------------
Also, I believe the proper word that you are looking for to (wrongly) describe my case is ''semantics''.

I am not using semantics to condemn Zakeri here, I am saying his ideas contradict eachother. Zakeri told us his meta involves quickhammering only when there's enough evidence, when clearly there has not been any evidence at all.
---------------------
I do not find Raikaria being particularly incriminating, in the same way I do not find you, Serela, being incriminating because that's how everyone are. I am merely viewing the situation objectively here. I would lynch the person whose statements blatantly contradict themselves over the one whose known to act consistently in an undesirable manner any day of the week, because I am playing to win.