Omerta - Town of Mafia (Game over Scum wins)

[Raikaria]

And I'm always cautious of quicklynches ED1. Look at pretty much every game. It's paranoia.

I am making more typos than usual. Specifically typing the wrong word. I blame time issues.

[Bardiche]

Right now I'm gonna stick with Sky for 'Not me Over me' purposes,

LOL.

Bard's convenient omitting of that is not good.

Of course a Town Cop wants to live. But they're not going to be all, "Guys, I'm doing what I can to survive."

So... you're voting me for doing something that a townie would do?

For expressly behaving with a mindset of, "This is what a proper Townie would do." Townies don't worry about acting like Townies, they do.

I like to respond to ED1 wagons with 'hey guys we're not quicklynching right now'. I do this every game.

Right now I'm gonna stick with Sky for 'Not me Over me' purposes,

Hysterical much?

[WHMZakeri]

haven't sleeped yet, but I never make posts when I'm not sleep deprived so nobody should be able to tell anyways.

I didn't like Schezo's cheerlead of Raikaria but I figured it'd be a joke. Nevermind, I guess I misinterpreted that along with everyone else. Still, I also ignored Serela because it's too early for him to be scum yet. PX's vote I missed last time, and sandwiched between the two it seems weird to me (double so now that Schezo didn't actually call him scum). I haven't decided if the town part outweighs the scum part since he should be in the spot that gathers the most heat for the wagon. I'm suspicious and will consider it further.

Ladies and gentlemen:
1) Blatant admission that he doesn't want RVS to end. He says literally he does not want to kickstart things (crazy theories or no, kickstarting the game is good), and that the alternative to "fooling around with semi-RVS" is a terrible idea. Therefore, he considers fooling around in semi-RVS to be at least a better idea than lynching Sky_Paladin right now.
2) Presentation of a false dichotomy. There's a third, very real possibility: Don't fool around and hunt for the scums. People have been doing this. Votes have been going out and posts analyzed. RVS has been over and the time for tomfoolery is past.
3) His only content post before that is dissecting Sky_Paladin's post. Yawn. People've done that and you add nothing original to the flavour. If you want to "produce content", please comment on less covered areas.

This whole case, especially with the paraphrasing before where I quoted sounds like opportunism to me. Consider me the opposite of sold.

Serela's 96 is good and also helps me from having to analyze things thanks to being correct.

Zak, no.  Bad, bad kitty.  I already said it was an RVS joke vote. 

Someone finally acknowledges me, and it's for the line that I said in the same post that I should probably delete.

a fair point for the people voting Raikaria - Rai really does need to stop focusing on the concept of quicklynching. I've played a ton of mafia games on here and I've never seen someone willingly shorten the day by more than a few hours. Even if we have a cop claim, we're addicted to our talking time, and will talk ourselves out of going with the confirmed cop claim just so we can say we spent the entire time considering other possibilities. That said, I'm not sold on Scum Raikaria.

[Raikaria]

Oh I'm sorry I'm going to vote for myself out of the two wagons right now. I'm going to make a move which is more likely to get me lynched.

For expressly behaving with a mindset of, "This is what a proper Townie would do."

Well ain't that an assumption and a half about my behavior. That could be applied to anyone. Generally it isn't a good case when you could replace 'Raikaria' with anyone who spoke about Sky-Paladin's initial post.

But you know what. I'll amuse you. You don't think 'Not me over me' out of you and Sky-Paladin, who is also pretty bad right now, is suitable? Fine. You're literally asking for my vote out of the two I consider highest priority then. It would be rude to refuse, and at this point I think both you and Sky are likely to be scum because on your horribly flawed cases [And not just against me, but Sky's initial case as well].

##Unvote
##Vote: Bardiche

And yes Zakeri, I do need to get over my paranoia about quickhammers. But they tend to happen somewhat often where I come from. That's just what I've been around.

[WHMZakeri]

to clearify:

Sky and CF7 are the most suspicious to me. I'm keeping my vote on Sky for now.
As much fun as I'm having pick on Bardiche's cases, I don't have enough evidence to call him scum. He's not a day one lynch to begin with either, especially considering the number of one shot cops I've wasted on him in the past.
Every day one case of Raikaria ends up being about calling him out on the fact that he believes Quicklynches are a thing that ever happens, and the one unique thing about this game's case is that it involves a lot of controlling and manipulation of the meaning behind his words which makes me feel like there's absolutely no positive intention behind the wagon against him.

[WHMZakeri]

It's important to note the difference between chatroom mafia and forum mafia when considering the word's "quick".
Specifically the fact that forums discussion is never "quick".

also I just remembered that I never actually spoke about CF7, mostly because it was just me agreeing with the case Serela made on him and not bothering to mention it out loud. He was also the main reason why I brought up my willingness to quote unquote quicklynch a non-voter.

[O4rfish]

Every day one case of Raikaria ends up being about calling him out on the fact that he believes Quicklynches are a thing that ever happens, and the one unique thing about this game's case is that it involves a lot of controlling and manipulation of the meaning behind his words which makes me feel like there's absolutely no positive intention behind the wagon against him.

This is true, and the more I try to write a nuanced post sort of agreeing with it, the more I feel I just have to flatly agree with it.

[Mitsuki]

Raikaria's latest posts make me think that this is town!Raikaria, gut.

Zakeri also seems to be town, as scum I would expect him to post less and focus more on scumhunting and voting than on clarifying. Also, the easy thing to do would be either suspecting Raikaria or defending him a little bit so as to look townier when he flips. His comments on Raikaria make me think he's town genuinely trying to lead the game to a favorable path according to his point of view. Basically I don't see scum elaborating like that.

From most to least town: Zakeri > Bardiche > Raikaria

[Dorian White]

I'll make them a Votecount that they can't refuse

ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Sky_Paladin (2): NekoNekoRex, Zakeri
PX (1): Mitsuki
Serela (1): Schezo
Raikaria (4): PX, Bardiche, Sky_Paladin, Cheez8
Schezo (1): CF7
CF7 (1): Serela
PX (1): O4rfish
Bardiche (1): Raikaria

Not voting:  No one

Raikaria is at L-3

With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 Timer

[O4rfish]

Holy what. There are two players named PX?

[Schezo]

holy shit.  like damn.

Raikaria I think you've got a fundamentally flawed way of thinking about how to play the game and people don't like that so they lynch you all the time. 
You unironically think that town's goal all of the time isn't to get the scum.  That's wrong because that's what it always should be.  Yes living so they can lynch the scum is a plus but they have to be trying to kill scum first and foremost.  To say that it's an omission of fact that town PRs don't also want to live is bonkers when they're going for scum too.  Like damn.  You're just paranoid and babbling.  Umm 47 hours left in the day no one is getting quicklynched.
That isn't the slamdunk case on Bardiche you think it is.  It's just omgus but I think you're misdirected town at this point. 

Mitsuki so we're clear you think the three people you just listed are town but in order of how strong the reads are?

##Unvote:
Serela shaped up and is doing cool things for cool people.  I really like his CF7 vote and would like more content from CF7
##Vote: CF7

I'm just going to say right now I hate SkyPaladin's playstyle. 
Like he narrates everything that happens just to make a wall then makes half assed posts while admitting it as such and it's just ugh.
Like man can you just get it all together in a relatively short concise manner?
His vote for Bard and whatever wasn't that great and I can see why people would vote him for that but I'd like another from him before I make up my mind on a read for him.

[Cheez8]

Well, since you all seem to be begging for my reads and such:
...
Cheez: 'For now, Raikaria not even trying to read most people leaves a worse impression on me than NNR.' - Sigh. Do I have to go through this again? I stated a dislike for CF7's case on Schezo, I commented on the events around Schezo and Mitsuki.

That's a pretty good read on me you have there. :V
(the previous statement is irrelevant to any cases I may be making)
Anyway, you say your motivation at the moment is to stay alive, but the problem here is that every scum player's motivation is to stay alive. Regardless of anything else, you cannot deny that when you operate under the same guiding principle as a scum player, your actions will look like those of a scum player, especially when there aren't any flips to work with. Even if I try to believe you, it makes it very difficult to keep doubts from bubbling up.

I don't know if my reasoning for my case was clear or not based on what Zak is saying about "Raikaria cases" in general, but my reasons were because Raikaria's actions fit the main thing that I think of when I think of scum play: picking and choosing the cases they want to make, and either ignoring or dismissing posts they don't wish to address. Mostly the second part since avoiding forming unnecessary opinions also plays a role. Larger posts tend to be easier to find flaws in, and harder to avoid discussing, which fit Raikaria's behavior a little too well. Raikaria's more recent behavior is different though, so I'm at least going to rethink this soon. May or may not change things.

Bardiche's case that Raikaria is scum for looking like a textbook townie seems kind of similar but just makes me scratch my head instead. Zak, please tell me you're not considering this or the quicklynch thing the "main" case against Raikaria.

I should try to make a paragraph in my next post that doesn't include the word "Raikaria". I didn't manage in this post and it really seems bad. Hopefully having real time to spare later today will help with that.

[CF7]

CF7 what makes my RVS votes different from hmm everyone else's in the game?

Was your Serela vote a RVS vote as well?

Hm... Actually looking at Zak i find him to be quite scummy.

Not feeling the case on Serela at all, but Bard isn't scum for it.

By the way, by Serela's case, do you mean Rai's case?

This whole case, especially with the paraphrasing before where I quoted sounds like opportunism to me. Consider me the opposite of sold.

Sky and CF7 are the most suspicious to me. I'm keeping my vote on Sky for now.

Bard case is bad, me and Sky_P are the most suspicious (btw i'm the most suspicious for my vote on Schezo), but he's not willing to vote for Bard, because:

As much fun as I'm having pick on Bardiche's cases. I don't have enough evidence to call him scum. He's not a day one lynch to begin  with either, especially considering the number of one shot cops I've wasted on him in the past.

Which is just plain awesome reasoning. I'm not sure if this is supposed to be serious or not. And yet, the only reason he's voting for Sky_P is this.

I can't condone this reasoning because it encourages bad play, which obfuscates scum's position

Which is Sky_P's RVS vote.

So.
##Unvote
##Vote Zak

Cut by stuff.
Can someone point me to Serela's case on me, because i don't see any? Unless you mean this?

Okay this is worse because this person didn't actually have a logic breakdown. "Oh no, Schezo did an RVS vote in RVS and then sheeped a case on Serela that's practically the only thing that actually happened yet". This is also ignoring the fact that Schezo's posts were not actually no-content? He also ignored the Actual Situations that have been starting to occur, which are important to comment on IMO even if you don't actually think the people involved are scum.

[Mitsuki]

CF7, I think we misunderstood the exact same thing about Schezo's Serela vote. You can read what he and Serela replied to me, you'll see that Schezo was sheeping Bardiche's Serela case.

Mitsuki so we're clear you think the three people you just listed are town but in order of how strong the reads are?

The townreads I listed are in order, from towniest to least town (but still townie).

[Raikaria]

Raikaria I think you've got a fundamentally flawed way of thinking about how to play the game and people don't like that so they lynch you all the time. 
You unironically think that town's goal all of the time isn't to get the scum.  That's wrong because that's what it always should be.  Yes living so they can lynch the scum is a plus but they have to be trying to kill scum first and foremost.  To say that it's an omission of fact that town PRs don't also want to live is bonkers when they're going for scum too.  Like damn.  You're just paranoid and babbling.  Umm 47 hours left in the day no one is getting quicklynched.
That isn't the slamdunk case on Bardiche you think it is.  It's just omgus but I think you're misdirected town at this point. 

Actually I only have the 'PR's should focus on survival' thing for D1. A PR who dies D1 is no good to anyone. A PR who is mislynched D2 onwards can at least give out a report with their claim which is then proven upon their flip, or a Doc may have saved someone, or such. Bard made a blanket statement that if you are worried about survival you are scum, but I do not think this true, at least for Day 1.

I think Bard's case is flawed and he openly ignored one of my posts when he initially made it. Also some of his logic is outright awful IMO. I don't think it's OMGUS, it's a bad argument whoever it is directed at, as I stated a few posts ago when I said 'When your argument still makes sense when you substitute 'Raikaria' with anyone else who commented on Sky's first post, it's not a good case'.

I've already stated that my quicklynch thing I always come out with is paranoia, but that dosen't stop me coming out with it until it's too late Q_Q

[Raikaria]

But still, I shall take it on board that my general opinion about D1 PR's and such is generally seen as a scum opinion, and use this for my future games.

[Mitsuki]

Why did you say nothing about PX, then? He hadn't even posted.

Quoting this question to remind Schezo that I'm still waiting for an answer.

[ActionDan]

I am behind.  full day of school.

After dinner + tutoring I'll be free

[O4rfish]

Everyone is terrible. Not only simpletons, airheads, mooks, and Mafia initiates play this game, but sometimes it seems like it.
I really don't have the time right now to dig through the layers of CFScummy's attack on Zak to see if it's legit, but I will do that sometime soon.

[NekoNekoRex]

Spent all day either having Zombie Brain Syndrome or being asleep, so I need to catch up.

[Serela]

Okay back from work, time to review.

My opinion is that Schezo's #130 hits all the nails on the head, although I mean this more on playstyles and not on actual slot alignment reads (e.g. I don't actually have a townread on raikaria like him, just my previous opinion of :biggerfish:)

Mitsuki is townhunting but I can't recall any scumhunting apart from poking PX for being low-presence. It's easy for scum to call townies town, can you explain all/any scum suspicious you have on people?

O@rfish feels like they're coasting by on small pokes here and there whilst basically not doing anything :C I know they're new, but O@rfish!Snidely talked a decent amount, even if everything I remember him saying on D1 was insane. That last post is "everyone sucks, eventually I'll look at CF7's post on Zak I guess". So, you think CF7 is scummy? This is the first time you've mentioned him I think! I wish I could ask why but people who don't like CF7 are sheeping my case as to why (this is really unusual, I'm not sure how to react)

Whilst I'm on the subject, Zak is adorable!town and no we're not lynching him (at least not today, it's not a -solid- townread but I mean it's only partway through d1 so yeah)
re:CF7's case on him

Which is just plain awesome reasoning.

This is about his opinion on Bard, and it's fine- Zak's saying that even if he doesn't like Bard's case at all, he doesn't have any real reasons to think he's scum either, plus he says that he's bad at reading Bard in general. I'm really bad at reading Huhwhat so I can sympathize >> Prims2good.

But yeah that's not bad. I'd have to reread Zak again to think about whether the SkyPal vote reason is valid or not but even if it is I don't think it's enough to constitute much.

Also yes that is indeed my case on you, CF7. It's about basically the only post you'd made :V Now there's this one too, but, it's basically just about not being able to interpret Zak's posts (apart from the SkyPal part that I haven't reread enough to address) so I don't really see any reason to think you're town yet

[CF7]

Everyone is terrible. Not only simpletons, airheads, mooks, and Mafia initiates play this game, but sometimes it seems like it.
I really don't have the time right now to dig through the layers of CFScummy's attack on Zak to see if it's legit, but I will do that sometime soon.

Ha-ha. And your level of play was just plain undeniably awesome? I just can't see it for some reason. Maybe you're ninja too...

[Shadoweh]

Tight Lips Votecount

ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Sky_Paladin (2): NekoNekoRex, Zakeri
PX (2): Mitsuki, Oarfish
Raikaria (4): PX, Bardiche, Sky_Paladin, Cheez8
CF7 (2): Serela, Schezo
Bardiche (1): Raikaria
Zakeri (1): CF7

Not voting:  No one \o/

Raikaria is at L-3

With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 31 hours remaining.
Day 1 Timer

[Mitsuki]

Nothing else happened? I'm disappointed.

Mitsuki is townhunting but I can't recall any scumhunting apart from poking PX for being low-presence. It's easy for scum to call townies town, can you explain all/any scum suspicious you have on people?

You don't recall correctly. While it's true that it's unlikely for me to find much stuff scummy D1, I did way more than that. When you read it I can explain better if there's some point you don't agree with/don't understand.

[Raikaria]

Agreeing with Mitsuki, there's not exactly been anything that's happened since my last post which I can comment or or looks that scummy. I kinda got everything I had to say out in my previous posts.

[NekoNekoRex]

Let's pretend I never made that last post and say I spent pretty much 24 hours sleeping. Or doing important shit.
...Touhoumon counts as important shit to me screw you.

I'm actually for reals reading the game this time. I think bard is town without having even seen Page 4 though, he's just super townie.

[NekoNekoRex]

I'm actually still really busy so I don't have time to go into detail, but at this point the only people I haven't found too scummy so far are Bard, Cheez, and Serela, and Dan I guess but Dan hasn't posted much either.

Really I could find something to complain about everyone else at this point.

But I really don't have time to clarify much atm so I'll get to it later.

this is a pretty shitty broad post I know but I at least want to have something to say instead of more "I'm reading but I'm not going to actually post anything because I got busy again (and it's not touhoumon this time I swear)"

[NekoNekoRex]

I'm still inclined to keep my vote on skypal because I still haven't liked a single post he's made so far.
Raikaria's not much better either but I know fuckall what to think about him until I have more time, he's a weird case.

Oarfish, Mitsuki, and PX all looked like they were trying to lurk as hard as they could imo, for different reasons I don't have time to divulge into, but their low-content posts and low posting rates have been getting on my nerves.

PS: "Cheez" was the "rat-friend" I was referring to. It's a pun.

[NekoNekoRex]

Actually wait I went back to skim because Oarfish was bugging me and it turns out he hasn't made a single post that isn't a 2-line shitpost so far this game

##Unvote
##Vote: O4rfish

Get rekt

[NekoNekoRex]

PX is a close second but he has one non-shitpost so he's at least a degree better.