Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F  (Read 219435 times)

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #900 on: June 04, 2014, 11:20:23 PM »
Imagine if Hina had arm twisting and/or intense vertigo...

Not sure if this is the case, but did LoT 1 added some things after their release? (not counting + disc)

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #901 on: June 05, 2014, 12:39:38 AM »
Not sure if this is the case, but did LoT 1 added some things after their release? (not counting + disc)
Quite honestly, I'm not sure anyone played LoT1 early enough to answer you. I think Plus Disk was already out when the english patch was finished, and even then, the versions where EVA worked were basically mythical, unattainable things to anyone. And it wasn't so popular to us before then.

e:Yeah, the first thread about the game on MotK was after the jap wiki already had all the info about Plus Disk up, and that was before the english patch was a thing. You'd need to find someone who lives in japan and bought the game before Plus Disk came out.
e:I'm stupid, the english patch was out already at the time
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 12:50:58 AM by Serela »
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #902 on: June 05, 2014, 01:05:01 AM »
From my memory, evasion worked partially in my first playthrough, which was 2.03 I think. It's been a long time, but I know basic attacks could miss, and that might've been it. No idea about 1.xx.

uhh, patch 2.06 gave Nitori's linear megawatt cannon a HUGE boost, catapulting her to her top-tier position. It might've also been FIR originally, but became non-elemental. The same patch also added NG+.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #903 on: June 05, 2014, 03:02:58 AM »
I'm pretty sure Megawatt was only boosted in Special Disk; I know I tried to use her seriously some in Plus but Megawatt just wasn't all that good back then.

Unless 2.06 came out really, really late? We had to use a hacked file for NG+ anyway to avoid borked resistances, so I don't remember much about the official one.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #904 on: June 05, 2014, 03:08:37 AM »
I thought megawatt was buffed separately from the plus disc myself. Also, it may have been a plus disc addition but what about the floor 20 enemies dropping their stuff at 5% for the first drop instead of 1%?
Back to music, yeah I meant I liked vanilla lot1 music. I actually disliked special disc music. Even if you count FOEs, I think lot1 still had more bosses, and yeah, the whole foe mechanic in lot2 was a bust imo. When they first said it would have FOEs I was really excited, but they really don't behave any differently than bosses in EO... they just camp one square until you get in range then they go towards you, then go back to their original position if you leave that "range". Except maybe the taur demon...not sure about that one. It kinda seemed like a normal foe but I swear its spawn poisiton was random or something, I dunno.

Arm twisting on hina might actually be bad because it might make it so she debuffs the rest of your party despite their own resistances too=P
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 03:13:21 AM by Ghaleon »

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #905 on: June 05, 2014, 03:29:03 AM »
Back to music, yeah I meant I liked vanilla lot1 music. I actually disliked special disc music.
Vanilla LoT1 music was incredibly hype, and really went a lot towards making the game shine.

Special Disc music was highly meh with one or two exceptions that were alright. It's annoying that it didn't save your music choice option and always set to special disk music on startup.

That's part of the reason LoT2 isn't as hype, along with overall not-quite-as-interesting floor exploration and more subdued attack animations. Also a ton of the battle animations are flashy enough to make my eyes hurt, but that might be due to my monitor, which is bright even at lowest settings... (in LoT1 it was only a problem with like, Kaguya's Hourai Jewel)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 03:31:55 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #906 on: June 05, 2014, 03:45:33 AM »
trash battles aren't as balanced in lot2 either imo. like in lot1 trash battles  were more or less more and more difficult after every floor, and after you reach floor 13 each battle is exciting based on its challenge unless you were currently using a top tier trash cleaner in your group at that moment like flan, mystia, etc. Exceptions were those effing shadowcats on floor 2 which are balanced to be on floor 31 or something (yes I know it doesn't exist), slash diving zord fishes on 13f (the floor as a whole is actually easier than previous ones imo minus the chance of those fish), and 17f if you do not have a good fast aoe physical nuke when those gems appear.... Even the minibosses on 20f in lot1 were more exciting, both for potential loot drops, and challenge, and reward. Given the fact that you only lose 10tp when a character loses all their hp instead of being sent back to town in lot2, I think they should have been made alot more challenging a lot sooner than... I forget what floor it was where they finally started being a threat. 16f or 17f I believe.

However I do notice that most floors seem to have rarespawn trash enemies that are far more powerful but don't quite qualify as minibosses either. like on 4f there are 2 knights, one is level 12 and another 24 iirc, obviously I'm talking about the level 24 one, and 6f has sharks, and as a rare spawn there's some metal coloured shark. I don't really remember lot1 having this except for perhaps the solar demons on 19f.

It's really strange. lot2 is both more and less polished. I think the developer made some great advancements in terms of character customization, subclasses, acheivements that actually matter, etc. But in doing so he lost the ability to spend as much time/effort balancing the game from start to finish as effing masterfully (imo) as he did the first time. I wonder if it was that, or if 1 was just a crazy fluke on his part in that regard.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #907 on: June 05, 2014, 05:05:39 AM »
All the characters are also a lot stronger in LoT2 and being able to freely switch levelup bonuses makes them MUCH more versatile; that might make doing randoms to be challenging, but not overwhelming, harder.

Although yes, you can pretty much just wipe almost all the randoms until you run into stuff like "jeez they resist like, everything" which is just plain annoying. The enemies on the last few floors being hard also seems a lot to be attributed to a resistance to actually spending your money on skills... because dang, those achievements for stockpiling it.



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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #908 on: June 05, 2014, 06:12:32 AM »
I was always amazed at how static the setup for grinding in 20F was back in Labyrinth 1 because of just how efficient it was:

-Rinnosuke / Nitori / Flandre / Yukari
-Turn manipulation in that same order
-World Shaking Military Rule / Cannon / Starbow / Spiriting Away / Sword / Cannon / Laevateinn
-Get hueg exp/skills/everything
-Repeat

I hope the 20F fights in Labyrinth 2 aren't as static, because of the smaller MP pool... but we shall see. I'm at the 16-17F section with the full roster.  :3
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #909 on: June 05, 2014, 06:44:01 AM »
If/when we do get an expansion-type update for LoT2,  are there any characters from TD or DDC you'd like to be added?

I was thinking Miko would be an appropriate character for carrying World-Shaking Military Rule now that Rinnosuke doesn't have it, and that could be pretty fun. (Potentially overpowered since you can switch out characters with low TP in 2)

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #910 on: June 05, 2014, 06:59:49 AM »
I want hatate, despite her not being in either of those 2 games you have listed. I don't know why she's pretty much ignored by the fanbase compared to tenshi/suika/other Touhou #.x games. I understand newer characters are often less common in games than older ones but she's not THAT new anymore, and she's still rare as fuu.

Exxelent_

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #911 on: June 05, 2014, 07:13:55 AM »
Didn't have to be TD or DDC, anyone who got left out could potentially be added. Hatate seems hard since she doesn't have any "real" [non-photo] spell cards, though, so her case is somewhat understandable.
You're right about her being ignored in doujinsoft for the most part though, what's up with that?

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #912 on: June 05, 2014, 07:18:41 AM »
Yeah, though Hina was probably even more maddeningly rare for her age until the TPW evo + vote thing. Her popularity seems to be much higher now though thankfully. Not sure what caused it, I always thought she was pretty cool myself.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #913 on: June 05, 2014, 12:59:44 PM »
I'm pretty sure Megawatt was only boosted in Special Disk; I know I tried to use her seriously some in Plus but Megawatt just wasn't all that good back then.

Unless 2.06 came out really, really late? We had to use a hacked file for NG+ anyway to avoid borked resistances, so I don't remember much about the official one.
Pretty sure it was 2.06, not special disk.

For clarification, the English patch was for 2.04. 2.06 was never supported since it was kinda buggy (or something).

I thought megawatt was buffed separately from the plus disc myself. Also, it may have been a plus disc addition but what about the floor 20 enemies dropping their stuff at 5% for the first drop instead of 1%?
Back to music, yeah I meant I liked vanilla lot1 music. I actually disliked special disc music. Even if you count FOEs, I think lot1 still had more bosses, and yeah, the whole foe mechanic in lot2 was a bust imo. When they first said it would have FOEs I was really excited, but they really don't behave any differently than bosses in EO... they just camp one square until you get in range then they go towards you, then go back to their original position if you leave that "range". Except maybe the taur demon...not sure about that one. It kinda seemed like a normal foe but I swear its spawn poisiton was random or something, I dunno.

Arm twisting on hina might actually be bad because it might make it so she debuffs the rest of your party despite their own resistances too=P

The 1% -> 5% mechanic was special disk.

Regarding the music, I just want to remind everyone that LoT1's original music was freely available. That's why Rinnosuke's boss music was also used in Cosmic Break. It's also why it had absolutely nothing to do with touhou. Presumably LoT1 earned him enough money/success to get touhou-specific music in the special disk.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #914 on: June 05, 2014, 01:06:40 PM »
Regarding the music, I just want to remind everyone that LoT1's original music was freely available. That's why Rinnosuke's boss music was also used in Cosmic Break. It's also why it had absolutely nothing to do with touhou. Presumably LoT1 earned him enough money/success to get touhou-specific music in the special disk.

I remember hearing the generic boss battle theme and post-battle themes in a few episodes of Kamen Rider Decade.

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #915 on: June 05, 2014, 03:58:18 PM »
Yeah and some boss fights like youmu's was also used in hollow world of god.

I cant believe dark a liar was free though

Hawk

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #916 on: June 05, 2014, 05:05:38 PM »
Wow, 18F has both a real teleporter maze and a multipart boss.  This is why I shouldn't be allowed to use words.

Hit 20F last night.  I'm pretty sure 18F still has better grinding for now.  I'm kinda feeling like I should swap out Kogasa at some point--she used to be important for sweeping trash, but I've been using Sakuya, Lord Queen Goddess of Garbage.  It's amazing how much better she is than in LoT 1.

Edit: Character list for expansion?  Well, assuming they're adding 12, I think every shmup playable character, final boss, and extra boss should have representation.  This forces:

1. Miko
2. Koishi
3. Nue
4. Hatate
5. Sukuna
6. Raiko
7. Seija
8. Mamizou

And then based on my own preferences:

9. Akyuu
10. Futo
11. Kokoro
12. Shou (okay not really but this one's confirmed)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 05:22:34 PM by Hawk »

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #917 on: June 05, 2014, 06:22:28 PM »
I'm kinda feeling like I should swap out Kogasa at some point--she used to be important for sweeping trash, but I've been using Sakuya, Lord Queen Goddess of Garbage
She can work pretty well on the final boss I... THINK...? Assuming you can actually make her deal any damage through the guy's defense. If not, well, you can build her as a tank, because arm-twisting on MND is still really important for any magic attacks, because goddamn his def/mnd count is stupid. And then terror on the side is okay I guess, at least if you have anyone on the team enabled by statuses.

She's good on one of the bosses you're about to have to fight, too. DRK is a pretty nice element in this game.
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #918 on: June 05, 2014, 07:21:09 PM »
Except maybe the taur demon...not sure about that one. It kinda seemed like a normal foe but I swear its spawn poisiton was random or something, I dunno.
As far as I can tell, the taur magician on 17F does have a set spawn point. It's just got a ridiculous range, something like "the entire south half of the floor", which is why it keeps chasing you in completely unrelated areas.

Also, personally, I'm not really betting on DDC characters being in - the full version of it only came out at the same time LoT2 itself did. Seems like it'd be a bit early to add them in, is all.

Really hoping for TD characters, though, especially Miko. Honestly, I'd say Miko (for TD rep and final boss rep), Koishi (extra boss + HM playable + Palace of the Earth Spirits), and Akyuu (hints at her being playable + that'd mean no NPCs) would be the three I'm really hoping for, with a variety of other characters lower on my priority list.

Exxelent_

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #919 on: June 05, 2014, 10:32:42 PM »

9. Akyuu


How would you go about unlocking her?
Save over 100 times?

Hawk

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #920 on: June 05, 2014, 10:49:12 PM »
I'd imagine it'd be a BP condition, since she *used* to show your highest BP  character in LoT 1.

Something like "hit 1500 BP with any character".

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #921 on: June 05, 2014, 11:32:18 PM »
I really don't believe DDC characters should be in the game. It's a bit too early, imo. TD on the hand, I'm good with.

As I've said before, the characters I'd want are Koishi, Hatate, Miko, Futo, and Tojiko. Maybe Seiga/Yoshika/Mamizou could be added. (Poor Kyouko)

If Kyouko were to be added, I'd imagine her to be a support mystia type of thing.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #922 on: June 06, 2014, 02:26:10 AM »
I also agree that it's a bit too early to see DDC chars, though it would be nice to see something like Seija reversing ATB gauges or Sukuna overstacking MP the same way Eirin overheals. :V

Hypothetically, let's say more chars are added to the next expansion/game or whatev. What would their roles be, you think? If Miko was introduced I think she would be a single-target dmg dealer, or Shou Futo being trash-clearers, or Koishi and Nue being some kind of support chars (like Nue changing element resists or such).
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #923 on: June 06, 2014, 11:27:16 AM »
If he is in fact adding 12, it's extremely likely characters from both TD and DDC will make the cut, since he'd have to start dredging the relative bottom of the barrel in fan popularity from older games to fill slots from unrepresented older characters in some cases, and even with the more popular ones, it might be a bit hard to find them a role either mechanically or story-wise.

The missing older characters:

EoSD - None
PCB - Letty, Lyrica/Merlin/Lunasa, Lily White
IN - None, I think
PoFV - Medicine
MoF - Shizuha
SA - Yamame, Kisume, Koishi
UFO - Ichirin, Minamitsu, Shou (already confirmed), Nue
DS - Hatate
GFW - Three Fairies of Light

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #924 on: June 06, 2014, 12:15:08 PM »
If he is in fact adding 12, it's extremely likely characters from both TD and DDC will make the cut, since he'd have to start dredging the relative bottom of the barrel in fan popularity from older games to fill slots from unrepresented older characters in some cases, and even with the more popular ones, it might be a bit hard to find them a role either mechanically or story-wise.

The missing older characters:

EoSD - None
PCB - Letty, Lyrica/Merlin/Lunasa, Lily White
IN - None, I think
PoFV - Medicine
MoF - Shizuha
SA - Yamame, Kisume, Koishi
UFO - Ichirin, Minamitsu, Shou (already confirmed), Nue
DS - Hatate
GFW - Three Fairies of Light

Daiyousei, Koakuma and Tewi would like to have a word with you. :V

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #925 on: June 06, 2014, 01:29:51 PM »
I have always been good at forgetting midbosses :(

(Yeah, you're correct.  Although all three pretty much fall into a very ??? space as far as a mechanical role goes.)

Trickster-kun

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #926 on: June 06, 2014, 02:14:23 PM »
I can see Tewi being implemented if critical hits become a thing in the next Labyrinth.  :3

The bad about it is that, like evasion, it works both ways...  :ohdear:
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #927 on: June 06, 2014, 02:45:58 PM »
You also forgot mima as the periodic midboss in UFO. I KID I KID DONT SHOOT.

I dont expect midbosses to be included but i think the guy is so close to having a full cast otherwise that he should do it... Dont forget hatate though or else ill cry!

Medicine would be an easy addition too imo since she clearly would fit in the greatly lacking poison application role with wriggle.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #928 on: June 06, 2014, 03:39:45 PM »
How would she differentiate herself from Wriggle, though? I imagine that she'd be more like the Toxicologist role, using different poisons to inflict different statuses...
But then, what would make her different from Toxicologists :V
By the way, how does one get to 9F of the extra areas? I want to battle the extra boss there, but I don't know how to get there. Does it have something to do with the rocks on 11F?
Also, these rocks:   http://i.imgur.com/MGVt2Pf.png  How to get past them?
What if Koishi has a skill that makes them invincible until their turn, but inflicts some debuff or something and has a low post-use gauge? ( Manipulating subconscious to make it seem as if they weren't there or something ) It would fail if the user is the only one left on the team.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 03:41:52 PM by CrazyManiacz »

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #929 on: June 06, 2014, 03:45:25 PM »
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