Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F

[ZXNova]

I wouldn't say warrior favors people who stay out given its 10% damage bonus when hp is full feature.
monk is more stayey imo since they self buff and heal over time.

So you're saying because of that one skill that comes with warrior it's not a stay in subclass? I really don't think that's the case at all. After all, there's another skill that buffs your attack every turn if you attacked an enemy the last turn. So wouldn't that imply staying in? Not to mention Warrior increases HP, TP, ATK, and DEF. So wouldn't you think it's a subclass for an stay in attacker?

Monk is more of a stay in subclass yeah, but Warrior also seems to be for those who stay in too.

[Kirin no Sora]

I'm not so sure about that. Warrior seems like a subclass meant for people who would be staying in most of the time. And well, Flandre is kind of a hit and run character. Although she has a butt load of HP, I really don't believe she'll be able to utilize Warrior to her full potential. She benefits a lot more from Gambler.

Unfortunately, that would mean that the "Vampiric Wrath" skill would be rendered useless. And I have to ask at this point: why does Flandre, of all people, have a skill like that? I could think of a much better skill for her, truth be told. I forget what the name of it is, but Yuugi had a skill that increased her attack power the less health she had, so why can't Flandre have something like that? That would have some synergy with her "Starbow Break" spell, since she can lower her own health and thus increase her strength with each strike. It would be risky, but it would make more sense than "Vampiric Wrath" does now(Hell, you could call the "Less HP = More Damage to Enemy" skill the name "Vampiric Wrath" when it's on Flandre, and it would make perfect sense).

Monk is more of a stay in subclass yeah, but Warrior also seems to be for those who stay in too.

Personally, I would think that Monk is for those who want have more flexibility in whether said character is to stay in or will swap out, given its emphasis on speed and accuracy. You can go either way with it.

Quick question: how many bosses are resistant to Cold element spells, as compared to the other elements that said bosses could possibly resist? Because since Cold element spells are the hardest to get in the game(other than the few characters who have it naturally, you can only get such a thing from the Toxicologist subclass(one of the reasons why I sing more than a few praises about it)), so...

[Serela]

And I have to ask at this point: why does Flandre, of all people, have a skill like that? I could think of a much better skill for her, truth be told. I forget what the name of it is, but

I don't know, because it's extremely unlikely she'd ever survive such an attack.

Anyway, the entire reason someone equated Warrior to Stay In Flandre is because it gives her a good attack that doesn't kill your ATB bar or your HP count or anything like that, like Flandre's normal skillset. Warrior does not benefit staying in to any significant degree; 8% attack buff after attacking is just as good on someone you're switching out after each attack. It's possibly better since it's harder to buff someone who's rarely out.

But, anyway, Flandre really is best suited to Gambler. She's unlikely to survive most attacks unless she evades them in the first place, and doubled damage from the subclass is more than worth the doubled mp cost. Many bosses can be slaughtered with her in this kind of build.

[Dodging_Rain]

The reason why I was thinking of utlizing warrior as a possible stay-in feature is because of her large HP pool and total affinity, but  turns out those affinities are highly specialized with her two weakest causing her to take triple damage unless she has a 2 Title of Grand Master Breakers and a Crystal Charm (which I prefer to give to Nitori).  Also vampiric wrath requires Flan to get hit by something that she is weak against, the same ones that she has !!!32!!! elemental affinity in two areas (64 is the 3rd and 4th lowest).

While Warrior gives more survivability, one also has to consider the benefit both of them gives.  Monk is notably to simply shorten attacks cooldown in both speed and percentage reduction and accuracy can't exactly be ignored if you have a spellcard that has crap accuracy such as KO in 3 steps or Throwing Ame-no-Tajikarao, and while warrior gives tankier stats, it also benefits some that gets switch out regardless due to delay post time being 0 (Last Judgement).

On another topic again, does anyone know a way how to empty a party slot when changing your party in Gensoyko?  I want to do some test with one character and the time required to have other characters use concentrate so not to mess it up increases testing time required.

[Serela]

On another topic again, does anyone know a way how to empty a party slot when changing your party in Gensoyko?  I want to do some test with one character and the time required to have other characters use concentrate so not to mess it up increases testing time required.

Use the A key when at the part where you pick who to switch with, and it will remove the character and give you an empty slot

I wonder how much accuracy Monk actually gives?

Anyway, Flandre's mnd is tissue-tier even if her fix her affinities, so trying to make her live is a lost cause. She still wouldn't be anywhere near durable if you made her reliably able to take a hit, so there's not much of a point- the damage reward from going full glass cannon instead is humongous.

[Ghaleon]

So you're saying because of that one skill that comes with warrior it's not a stay in subclass?

No, I said I wouldn't say that it IS a stay in subclass...I mean I don't really think whether a character is "stay in" or not is the major determining factor in which it should be made a warrior or not.

Anyway beat boss using the all defense but my 3 people who can hit for more than 0 strategy...I dunno.. given how long the boss took to kill, it felt kinda underwhelming. I just don't like that playstyle, kinda felt like a puzzle/gimmick boss when it's done via centering your entire strategy around so few characters.

Boss took extra extra long too cuz patchy was one of my characters who I'd swap in to take a hit (cuz she takes 0s from virtually everything that boss has other than ratsetsu fist and that eat your mp for hp thing...and it's basic attack but I didn't use her for phase 1)...and well, boss ate all her mp and healed itself for effing 280k.. sigh, there goes 20 minutes. Did that to alice too. Fortunately because she's my hexer her mp wasn't full, but boss still healed for like 120k.

Is there a handy-dandy english guide for how to get past each rock? the one in the mid east of 20f for example, jpn wiki translates it to something like "discover 88 species"..which I took to mean find 88 different monsters in your enemy database thing, but I had like 94 or something (not counting foes and bosses too) and it still barred my path.. Then there's the ones that say something about a Tough spirit must be defeated first...I'd assume that's the final boss itself but I thought those 2 rocks at the bottom of 9f (or was it 12f?) required that.

[Axel Ryman]

I wonder how much accuracy Monk actually gives?

12 Accuracy.


Cheat engine showed me everyone starts with 100 Accuracy. Putting Monk on increased to 112 so yeah.

Edit: On that note, Strategist is also 12.

[Ghaleon]

oh it's 88 achievements on the 20th floor thing.. do the ones at 94+ count? not sure cuz it's shaded differently.

[Zengar Zombolt]

I'm ashamed to admit that it took me 15 retries to defeat Hina, and only on the last one it ocurred to me that MAAAAYBE, Parsee would be pretty much perfect for the fight. Why did I take so long?

On the other hand, quick question. Are all of Patchy's stones weak to DRK (and TRR by the way)? Because Kasen+Parsee really did short work out of the Water one.

Oh! I also got my first Awakening stone, and rushed to give it to Marisa. By now she kinda needs it, since Nitori's constantly outdamaging her and that shit ain't fly.

[Dodging_Rain]

I'm ashamed to admit that it took me 15 retries to defeat Hina, and only on the last one it ocurred to me that MAAAAYBE, Parsee would be pretty much perfect for the fight. Why did I take so long?

On the other hand, quick question. Are all of Patchy's stones weak to DRK (and TRR by the way)? Because Kasen+Parsee really did short work out of the Water one.

Oh! I also got my first Awakening stone, and rushed to give it to Marisa. By now she kinda needs it, since Nitori's constantly outdamaging her and that shit ain't fly.

Something to note is vs Hina is that you should avoid putting her at negative stat with debuff or she will buff herself severely next turn.  The other thing is that terror, silence, and heavy also causes her to buff herself and rmove said ailments, You will find these factors true with Hina as a player character too as she thrives will them especially debuffs. 

Not sure if they the phiolsopher stones ware weak to darkness, but they were not hard and I just use the element opposite to them to win.

Parsee is pretty much relegated to tank duty as Hina is resistant to dark but her immunity to debuff and high mind allows her to sit in front and switch.  As for weakness, She is weak to spirit and neutral to everything else not mention and only Klomachi and Reimu could use those attacks (with the latter not really best for damage role).

Severeal people here mention that Marisa's Master Spark seems to fall off too quickly; in cintrast, Nitori seems to be a staple source of damage especially late game.

[Ghaleon]

Yeah i used marisa from start to finish in my playthru and master spark was extremely underwhelming. And weould often hi for 0 on tanky bosses. 3d cannon would always outdo it by heaps, uses less mp too, and without iverheat.

[Gesh86]

Something strange happened in the NG+ run that I started today. When I first loaded the save I made with it, I gained achievements number 97 and 98, the ones you get for defeating the bosses for

Spoiler:

recruiting Maribel and Renko

.
To anyone who's beaten postgame and started NG+: Has that happened to you as well? It makes me wonder if those bosses will actually be there once I'm that far into the game  :wat:.

[Ghaleon]

I started ng+ and did not get that achievement, note I never even did those bosses in my original game yet. I imagine you have?
I've noticed that recruitment events are still around in general despite having the characters in my party (like needing 3 manga meat for rumia). Was there some kind of penalty or goody I'm going to miss out if I don't bother with some of them (ones involving BP basically).

[Yookie]

I got those achievements when I started a NG+ and already beat the respective bosses.

You need to recruit some characters such as Youmu to proceed. Even if you already have her in her party you cannot get past the ice rock on F1 for example. (At least I couldn't). Characters that are needed to pass certain challenge rocks (e.g. Minoriko) do not need to be recruited again.


One thing I've noticed about Flan (whom I've never used in both 1 & 2  but randomly rolled into my last slot since I couldn't decide whom to choose from the ones I've not used yet :V) is that she absolutely wrecks everything on the early floors.
She two shot Youmu on lvl4 without targeting a weakness,
was capable of taking out most of the Hp of that FOE on floor 2 right after that
and where some characters dealt 2 digit damage she dished out more than a thousand against trash mobs.
Feels quite silly.

[ZXNova]

Yeah i used marisa from start to finish in my playthru and master spark was extremely underwhelming. And weould often hi for 0 on tanky bosses. 3d cannon would always outdo it by heaps, uses less mp too, and without iverheat.

Well imo, Marisa needs sorcerer class. Also, once you give her Arm Twisting, her damage should be a lot better. One thing I don't like is the way Sudden Impulse sounds, I mean, I haven't leveled it up, but the whole idea of "more damage, but less consistent" just bothers me. How good is this skill anyway?

[Ghaleon]

Well imo, Marisa needs sorcerer class. Also, once you give her Arm Twisting, her damage should be a lot better. One thing I don't like is the way Sudden Impulse sounds, I mean, I haven't leveled it up, but the whole idea of "more damage, but less consistent" just bothers me. How good is this skill anyway?

Arm twisting was the first thing i got her. Sudden impulse sounded unimpressive for me too so didnt get. And she was a sorcerer.

I found that her magic missle was pretty decent but master spark just didnt have damage that justified its cost and delay over other power numes like 3d cannon, koi3, etc... Though slash of eternity was even more underwhelming. I dumped youmu wuite early to know how it fAred late game though.

Also patchy for whatever reason seemed to go from suck to not bad at the end. She never even got her subclass for me. Not sure what caused it. Maybe he spells got alot more oomph from lvl4 to lvl5 than they did lvl1 to lvl4?

[ZXNova]

Arm twisting was the first thing i got her. Sudden impulse sounded unimpressive for me too so didnt get. And she was a sorcerer.

I found that her magic missle was pretty decent but master spark just didnt have damage that justified its cost and delay over other power numes like 3d cannon, koi3, etc... Though slash of eternity was even more underwhelming. I dumped youmu wuite early to know how it fAred late game though.

Also patchy for whatever reason seemed to go from suck to not bad at the end. She never even got her subclass for me. Not sure what caused it. Maybe he spells got alot more oomph from lvl4 to lvl5 than they did lvl1 to lvl4?

I'm guessing that's the case. Her spells must start off with a weak formula, but leveling them makes the formula a whole lot stronger.

[Jq1790]

*shudders*

LoT 1's 17F is evil.  I beat 16F finally, but almost everything on 17 can and will wreck me frighteningly quickly.

Should I just try to dash to 18F, or grind on 16 for a bit til I can more reliably kill stuff on 17?

[Serela]

A lot of people think 17f is really hard, I don't really understand. There's no treasure on that floor though, so it's fine to run past if you want to. I'd give you battle advice instead but it's been years since I played lot1, even though I played it like 3 times. I think one of the enemies was immune to magic so you used physical instead?

Just keep in mind 18f's randoms aren't exactly easy either. They're a different kind of hard though (no one ever really complained about them but so many people complained about 17f)

[Ghaleon]

17f is brutal hard if your team lacks some decent multi target physical attacks like nitori, aya, kanako. If this is the source of your woes, then 18f IS easier, and 17f isnt worth the trouble.

Do nkte though that one of the angel girls can drop something amazing. I forget, angel healer could drop a star of ellindel? Something like that.

[Dodging_Rain]

Angel girls?  You mean the Sky Fairy in floor 19?  She drops Forbiddin Tablets.  It's the Truth-Seeing Eyes that drop Star of Elendils.  Also I think Sakuya is pretty good on floor 17 iirc.

[Serela]

They were talking about Touhou Labyrinth 1 actually.

Alice/Wriggle (if it's an atk wriggle at least) are also good multitarget physicals, really anyone in an offense build with one is fine

[Jq1790]

Ah, ok, so basically leave the mages at home for that floor and go physical for most things?  Sounds cool to me.  I seem to recall Narrow Confines being good against those magic immune things, too, though I only ever faced those once.  It's the Conceptions and Gold Knights/Sorceresses and Dimensions that get me mosy.  So...basically most of the floor.  I think I didread about something dropping Stars of Elendil though, so it'll be worth revisiting if I do item grinding later.

[Zengar Zombolt]

Aaaah, that Yuugi fight. So hard. So tight. So... RNG-like. Every once in a while Yuugi would target the last two slots and screw the whole fight over.

[ZXNova]

Aaaah, that Yuugi fight. So hard. So tight. So... RNG-like. Every once in a while Yuugi would target the last two slots and screw the whole fight over.

She does? I'm thinking you're not refering to Knock out in Three Steps. Otherwise yeah. If it's Knock out in Three Steps, I'd be very surprised.

[Dodging_Rain]

Knockout in 3 steps. doen't but her regular attack before that stage does and can KO anything easily.  You can kind of call it Knockout in one step since regular attacks are 3 times faster.

[The Krve]

Ok, how can I beat that strengthened Memorized Knowledge on the 14th floor anyway ?
After the buffing turn, he just one-shots everything I have, including 40k Komachi. Guess my MYS res isn't high enough ?

[Ghaleon]

are you sticking to a specific party or? If not you can use characters with guts to hopefully survive and witch others out after.. you can also try to have a full mnd-build (use the level up bonuses) parsee or patchy to maybe take 0 from the nuke (stack mnd, not mys resist in that case). Parsee prob better cuz her mnd is higher, and her attacks are mitigated by enemy def instead of mnd, which I think the boss has much less of.

[Dodging_Rain]

Not sure about this since I didn't utilize this technique but I think it is possible to have Reisen + Aya (extra turn) debuff it while Orin spam Cat's Walk to shock it (Reisen's Vertigo helps).  You'll probably need a magician as well since Orin and Reisen is going to run out of mana fast from all the spamming.

[Trickster-kun]

Haaah, my first hurdle has appeared...

I'm seriously trying to defeat

Spoiler:

Tenshi

in 6F to get the drops... I can manage to get her to 1/4 HP using

Spoiler:

Wriggle poison spam + Heavy item, maxed-out atk Yuugi, maxed-out mag Marisa, Hina debuffs, and Mokou's revival tanking.

I feel like I just need more numbers...

EDIT: challenge surpassed! It took quite a bit of RNG, but nuking the boss with all my might provided results.  :3 Now onward, to 7F and beyond~