Revolutionary Girl Utena Mafia - Night 3 (Student Council Thread)

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

Not really a huge fan of the number of people clearing ActionDan based almost entirely on meta. Between trying to look too hard to appear town, giving awful reasoning for votes, being really reactionary when voted to not even that close to a lynch, and the fact that he... seems to have somewhat disappeared since, I'm strongly inclined to think that he's a pretty solid target for today.

However town reads are easy to find, so now I will attempt the magic of finding something 'scummy'.

Something about this quote really bothers me, but I'm not entirely sure what.

Wait, SkyPaladin, you think Roukan is scummy for being "too zealous"? (Nevermind the fact that he's always a bit overzealous, even discounting meta that's a really dumb reason to consider someone is scum unless their justifications for voting that person are horrible, and, uh, they're really not).

##Vote: SkyPaladin

Going to re-read a few posts, but the latest set of SkyPaladin/Roukan exchanges aren't doing much to change my opinion here.

[Raikaria]

My opinion on the NNR wagon can be summed up as 'Eh?'.

Actiondan's vote is more or less null; because NNR is voting Actiondan.

I don't agree too much with what BT said, but I also get the feeling I don't follow his logic too well and get what he actually means. Reading it I don't get what's so bad about NNR's post, especially compared to Sky. That said; I said I don't agree 'too much' and that means I do get where BT is coming from somewhat, and can see NNR!Scum slightly more than an outright null read.

Serela is basically sheeping BT's post though. I'm unsure if AD and Serela's sheeping is because of BT's reputation or if they legitimately think the case is solid [I'm more 'Eh I don't really see what's so bad here?']

I guess NNR right now would be my 3rd priority lynch; a LOOOOOOONG way after Sky, and then PX.

[Raikaria]

Secondarily:

If Rou and Raikaria are so confident that I am scum because I am (allegedly) defending Dan, why didn't they vote for Dan? 

If Dan was town, why would scum defend him?  (Never mind that is exactly what I did in the previous game   But that was because I knew for sure he was the miller.) 
And if Dan was scum, and you thought he was scum, why didn't you vote for him?  Instead you voted for me because I was 'defending' Dan.  You should still vote for Dan, and then pursue me if he flipped red.  You don't go for the defender, because a well-meaning town can still defend scum. 

Because I am more confident that you are scum; and I can build a stronger case on you; than I am confident that ActionDan is scum.

I'll go after the one I can formulate a stronger case on; since I believe that is how I can get the other townies to agree with me the best. Again; basic mafia playing 101.

Using 'We're voting you over Dan' as logic that I am scum is so flawed it's hilarious. That said; your entire case is a joke. I'll wait for some of the fallout to clear. If for some reason we've not lynched Sky nearer the deadline I'll happily break down why each individual part of his case on me is as awful as everything he was saying about Rou.

[Kilgamayan]

FEI I have asked Pesco and Edible to do vote counts while I am at work (since I will be here until deadline). Don't be surprised if either of them post such.

[ActionDan]

Not really a huge fan of the number of people clearing ActionDan based almost entirely on meta. Between trying to look too hard to appear town, giving awful reasoning for votes, being really reactionary when voted to not even that close to a lynch, and the fact that he... seems to have somewhat disappeared since, I'm strongly inclined to think that he's a pretty solid target for today.

Wait, SkyPaladin, you think Roukan is scummy for being "too zealous"? (Nevermind the fact that he's always a bit overzealous, even discounting meta that's a really dumb reason to consider someone is scum unless their justifications for voting that person are horrible, and, uh, they're really not).

##Vote: SkyPaladin

Going to re-read a few posts, but the latest set of SkyPaladin/Roukan exchanges aren't doing much to change my opinion here.

right.  I've made 2 votes.  One was on Prims for RVS, the other was on Neko and I borrowed BT's reasoning.  'not even close to a lynch' - sounds slimey.

trying too hard to appear town is most definitely a fallacious reason to attack someone for being scum.  Because it suggests you see behaviors that town would do.  town behavior ==> scum doesn't make sense unless you go into why the apparent town behaviors are scummy which isn't done in this post. 

[FinnKaenbyou]

I am willing to agree that if Sky flips scum then Dan is going to start looking extremely terrible. But if he's scum then he is really really bad at it, screaming and flailing in Dan's defense under the tiniest bit of pressure. That said stuff like his utterly nonsensical jump on Rai [RAI IS DEFENDING ROU in spite of Rai actually pushing my case for a decent length yesterday] is definitely worth suspicion, but there's a fear deep down in my heart that he's actually just a really stupid townie and will send my blood pressure through the goddamn roof.

Either way Rai has redeemed himself somewhat. Definitely better than someone else who's gone missing.

##Unvote
##Vote: NekoNekoRex

Will probably be willing to shift to a Sky vote if necessary and/or Rex does a good job of explaining himself. I'm just really frightened of a derptown flip. : (

-----

Ninja'd by Dan being kind of derp and reactionary again, this time towards Alice. I don't really see what's wrong with what he's saying and I feel like you'd be OMGUSing him if it wasn't so late in the day.

[Edible]

Making A Fancy Dress Out Of A Tablecloth Like A Motherfucking Boss Count
(Kilga's votecounts are really convoluted jesus christ ;_;)

Shadoweh (0): Serela
Serela (0): Shadoweh, Prims, PX, Zakeri
Prims (0): Serela, PX
ActionDan (1): PX, Roukins, Prims, NekoNekoRex
BT (0): PX
Raikaria (3): PX, Prims, PX, Sky Paladin
PX (1): Prims, BigBangMeteor, Serela, BT, Zakeri
Zakeri (1): CF7, NekoNekoRex
Roukins (0): Sky Paladin, Raikaria
NekoNekoRex (4): BT, ActionDan, Serela, Roukins, Prims, Roukins
Sky Paladin (4): BigBangMeteor, Shadoweh, Raikaria, bofh

Not voting (0): Nobody!

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

[NekoNekoRex]

Back just to say I don't actually have time for this today, possibly this next week because finals and stuff. I'll probably be replacing out, although I''ll try to play again if there's no replacement waiting.

[ActionDan]

You're right I would be voting Alice if I wasn't voting Neko since he's a carbon copy

[ActionDan]

@MOD: Serela is voting 2 people at once.

[edible]Fixed, blame Kilga <_<[/edible]

[Raikaria]

Requesting countdown to deadline.

[edible]It's time... for you to check the timestamps on Kilga's last votecount and make your own assumptions from there 8)[/edible]

[Serela]

The aim of MY game is to identify the scum and get them killed through any means possible.

Sorry but saying that someone is scum and not giving any good reasons why is NOT EVER GOING TO GET THEM KILLED. You're saying he's scum for making an overzealous push. WHY THE HELL IS IT OVERZEALOUS THEN THIS IS THE THINGS YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE USING TO SHOW US THAT HE'S SCUMMY

You're getting voted because you keep refusing to do anything remotely townie until your switch to Raikaria recently, which doesn't look the best purely because literally everyone was yelling at you before you changed what you were doing.

Also, FYI, the reason scum are winning a lot of games recently is twofold.

One is that we're having some awkward setup shenanigans. Whichever that one was where town was getting "endgamed" on d3 by the false scum/ITP teamup? Welp. Miller shenanigans last game? Welp. Reason 2 is (super biased-tier opinion) that we're having growing pains with a significant influx of new members who aren't exactly the best yet. Yes, everyone's going to be new at some point, and that's perfectly fine, but having a bunch of people like that at once is going to result in things like mislynches that normally could have gone better or the game hitting lylo with a bunch of people who might not make the best decisions. (SHUSH) SkyPaladin is being an example of that right now, Darkie is an example of that, CF7 I'm not as sure about but he's been repeatedly disappearing forever after signing up >>

that plus maybe a little bad luck means... yeah. Only really recently IIRC has town started to have a really bad winrate, I'm under the impression it was pretty balanced for most of the years I've been playing here.

OH RIGHT PLAYING MAFIA LET ME LOOK THROUGH THIS STUFF AGAIN

[Raikaria]

Yes, everyone's going to be new at some point, and that's perfectly fine, but having a bunch of people like that at once is going to result in things like mislynches that normally could have gone better or the game hitting lylo with a bunch of people who might not make the best decisions.

But...

(SHUSH)

D:. Fine then.

[Serela]

Serela is basically sheeping BT's post though. I'm unsure if AD and Serela's sheeping is because of BT's reputation or if they legitimately think the case is solid [I'm more 'Eh I don't really see what's so bad here?']

Erph >> I guess technically I can't defend myself against this. I made my opinion on NNR before I seriously read through BT's post about him, agreeing with it AFTERWORDS, but no one has anything to trust but my word and the order I made the relevant post in- I could theoretically be scum lying about deciding it before they say BT say it.

In terms of consolidation, I'd still rather lynch NNR then SkyPaladin. This is godawful, no doubt, but I'm leaning towards derptown!sky. That's not a confident read in the least, but I think NNR is more likely to flip scum, more or less.

...erph, looking over Raikaria and the things I'm seeing from SkyPaladin make me further doubt wanting to lynch NNR over him. The logic used around/after moving on Raikaria, it's all I can do to stare dumbly at the screen at it while I try to figure out what's going on in his mind with this stuff. Like, SkyPaladin's 171. None of that makes sense. You alledgedly defending Dan doesn't make Dan scum, that makes no sense. If you ARE scum, scum can still (and often do) defend town, and regardless of that, you don't assume someone is scum and lynch SOMEONE ELSE FIRST based off of THEM BEING SCUM, because that's retarded.

Rou's response is bring me back to my senses. It's hard to imagine scum pulling this mind-boggling stuff. I'm not dismissing SkyPal possibly being scum (just like I'm not dismissing ActionDan as bofh is suggesting many people are) but I can't vote him with confidence. Vote stays on NNR. More rereading time, I'm not done yet.

cut by I knew that was going to happen ;_;

[Serela]

Rereading this day is painful because of the incredibly high-horse passive aggressive smug attitude SkyPaladin is using for most of page 6. :/ He's like, assuming the people voting him are scum who are afraid of his unknown tactics. (#163~164)

Anyway, what I got from it is I don't want to lynch Raikaria. Another reason town!SkyPaladin should care about looking better is because he's giving scum easy and legitimate cases to sit on him with, rather then them having to try harder to make a good case on someone else, because for all I know Raikaria could just be scum being given a wonderful christmas present. (This is all hypothetical these are not indicative of my reads of either of those slots)

[FinnKaenbyou]

Oh good, Neko posted. Let's see what's going on-

Back just to say I don't actually have time for this today, possibly this next week because finals and stuff. I'll probably be replacing out, although I''ll try to play again if there's no replacement waiting.

uggggggggggggggggh

So now I have to make a decision. On principle I don't want to vote for a player who's replacing out, and I probably prefer the Sky case to the Rai case (Those rhyme! That is funny.) after Rai made more of an effort to contribute today. Hopefully by D2 Neko is either replaced with somebody or has enough time to actually defend himself.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sky_Paladin

Roukins

quiet you >:<

[Serela]

Just reread to look for more NNR posts after the one he made ED1 and found the one Rou just saw. WEEEEELP

[Serela]

Hmm. I don't see this as a good reason to unvote NNR. Scum can be busy too and it's an easy ticket out of having to defend oneself, so it's null.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Hmm. I don't see this as a good reason to unvote NNR. Scum can be busy too and it's an easy ticket out of having to defend oneself, so it's null.

Personally I figure that playing the 'I'm busy plz replace me' card as a means of avoiding defense would be the epitome of lame play. Saying 'I'm busy I can't talk' is one thing, saying 'I'm busy enough that I'll probably have to drop out' is another. If it is NNR using a /replace as an excuse not to comment I will be quite frankly disgusted.

[ActionDan]

Hmm. I don't see this as a good reason to unvote NNR.

I agree.

replacing out is null, but it's not like the slot that replaced out has a right to not be voted. 

[Serela]

The thing is, Rou, scum!NNR can still be busy enough to have to replace out :V

From there, not commenting as scum isn't bad play because it gives town nothing to work with and they're likely to lynch a different slot instead.

Anyway, this isn't a reason nnr is scum, it's just that I don't see it as a reason to think he's any more town then beforehand.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Yeah, but it means the case on him is 'one iffy vote on Dan' when Sky's done a lot more questionable stuff in the time after that. I'm not saying that NNR is suddenly obvtown, I'm saying that at the very least we should wait for him to give us more to work with if it's clear his lack of content is 'inability to post' rather than plain lurking. Basically part of the case to me was 'he made a bad post and then disappeared', and his request for a replacement negates the second half of that argument, so I can't pick him ahead of Sky now.

[ActionDan]

we could always lynch bofh because he is NekoNekoRex 2.0 and isn't replacing out.

What's the difference between the two again roukan?

[BT]

My folks drove to uni to abduct me to this fancy shmancy restaurant. I won't be home for another two hours at best.

[Serela]

Lynching bofh is literally garbage because we have no idea if he's town or scum and after we lynch him we learn nothing about anything.

Superlurking is his meta anyway >_> Not that he's going to get excused for doing nothing forever, but lynching the eternal lurker for lurking d1 would be a waste of time.

The reason for lynching NNR isn't even lurking anyway. Him and bofh are not the same.

[Serela]

Lynching for lurking in a 48 hour d1 would be stupid in general. I think the one content post NNR made is scummy, and that's why -I- want to lynch him.

[ActionDan]

Lynching bofh is literally garbage because we have no idea if he's town or scum and after we lynch him we learn nothing about anything.

Superlurking is his meta anyway >_> Not that he's going to get excused for doing nothing forever, but lynching the eternal lurker for lurking d1 would be a waste of time.

The reason for lynching NNR isn't even lurking anyway. Him and bofh are not the same.

The reason for lynching NNR is because his reasons for voting were bs.

Bofh has similar reasons and further crappy added reasons for naming me a prime target. 

I fail to see the difference.

[ActionDan]

and if the difference is bofh voting for Sky, then I don't buy that.

[Serela]

Well, yes, that'd be a difference >> I care less about his opinion on you because he's not actually trying to get you lynched rather then SkyPaladin.

I admit that I forgot you were even in bofh's post though <<

[FinnKaenbyou]

And now the thing finally comes full circle. Previously, Sky attacked me for going for Dan. Now Dan is attacking bofh for going for Sky. The scumpair theory is looking more and more reasonable by the minute.

Very comfortable with my vote where it is now.

Dan: You seem to be grasping at straws to vote for anybody who isn't Sky. Why exactly are you so convinced he's town? You said earlier it was because he was trying to scumhunt, but since then he's been tunneling on me all day and has offered nothing of any value.