You Don't Know the Setup Mafia - Game Over!

[Conqueror]

Because that part is completely useless if he just wants to randvote Serela. "Oh man I didn't want to lynch someone during RVS because it's RVS and it's the same as randvoting [i'm asuming this is what he meant with bringing up "mislynch"] everyone must know." The impulse to give the town as much input as possible without considering if that input is needed is a scum impulse as it'd be a shame to throw away a very very valuable RVS thought process (not really).

>implying not wanting to lynch someone during RVS is white knightingduring RVS

>implying there was an objective behind this "twisting of the situation" outside of, oh, not lynching someone

1) i have never seen "mislynch" used outside of the context of lynching town, so validon isn't saying "GUYS LET'S NOT RVS LYNCH" he's saying "GUYS THIS IS SUCH A MISLYNCH"
it's the fact that he said it "screams mislynch"; that's what makes it whiteknighting, not that he doesn't want to lynch someone in rvs. this leads in to what i said about validon's statement "twisting the situation": given that shadoweh was a self-voter on the L-1 wagon it's hardly as scum-motivated as validon is making it out to be.

2) also, the impulse to give town as much input as possible without considering if that input is needed is definitely a town impulse, not a scum impulse. townies dont care how they look and they're trying to get all the information out there as possible. scum on the other hand are more interested in controlling the flow of information they lead, so i dont know on what basis you're making this statement

ALSO Conq it's interesting that you go from "but validon is prone to overstatement from past experience" to voting him anyway. If you thought he was worth poking at this stage regardless I don't see the point of that statement.

when i made that statement i wanted to vote serela and the situation was completely different from when i made my validon vote later? serela had posted some stuff and i decided that overstatement would translate to both alignments; i wanted him to explain further what he meant by his statement.


also, i cant tell if you're defending or attacking validon in your replies to me; what gives? don't like the way you're twisting my statements on validon. what are you trying to ask me again?

[Conqueror]

also, bt, im interested in seeing where your vote actually stands given that you're still voting your jokevote (in case you forgot)

[BT]

I think my interpretation of 1) stems from the belief that people would stray from the idea of lynching someone during RVS to the point of using wonky terminology. ("mislynch")

As for 2), no, maybe for "information" but not "details". Val's input there wasn't needed at all. And the basis for this statement is that this is something I do as scum myself - incorporating some thought process in posts so that they seem genuine in spite of some other bullshit I might pull.

when i made that statement i wanted to vote serela and the situation was completely different from when i made my validon vote later? serela had posted some stuff and i decided that overstatement would translate to both alignments; i wanted him to explain further what he meant by his statement.

I argue that the situation couldn't have changed much, though I can't refute any of this so whatever. At least it wasn't in no way "completely different". <_<

also, i cant tell if you're defending or attacking validon in your replies to me; what gives? don't like the way you're twisting my statements on validon. what are you trying to ask me again?

What am I twisting and how? As for what I was asking, I guess I just wanted an elaboration on why you thought to vote Validon off of that.

I'm pressing Validon over what I said but I'm at liberty to poke at others' reasonings as well if I see the need to.

(i haven't forgotten about my vote)

[BT]

Actually I was holding off because I wanted Val's reply yet (didn't want to be TOO direct) but derp we're already at a voting stage.

##Vote Valtzotsuki

I think this avenue interests me the most actually. Even if I only gave a full proper explanation recently, the wide clear of any early Val presses + vote for said press leaves a pretty bad taste.

[Conqueror]

`_`
Eh, we probably could have saved a lot of time here if we had just waited for Validon to explain what he actually meant by his statement, but posters gotta post.
I'll just say that your interpretation kinda feels like a stretch but it's not like I can refute it.

re: 2) I don't think the distinction between information and details is that important for the average mafia player? This probably boils down to playstyle honestly, because I'm more likely to omit details of thought process when I'm scum, and I can think of several other players who are similar.

The part of the situation that changed was Serela posting more. I guess I kinda overstated it, but I got good enough feels off his posting that I didn't want to be voting him anymore. I also rethought my reasons for avoiding a Validon vote earlier and decided they weren't valid.

The twisting refers to the ">implying" statements because I was in no way implying anything like you said what I was implying!

[BT]

Eh, we probably could have saved a lot of time here if we had just waited for Validon to explain what he actually meant by his statement, but posters gotta post.

I prefer talk. Plus I gave up on waiting for him just now.

My "interpretation" is basically "I don't think that part of the post is bad". I don't think any of our interpretations are a stretch at this point.

RE implying: Bad wording then? Twas basically a "this is reality, this is what you're saying, compare" thing.

~Incoming 8 hours of phoneposting.

[CF7]

Um... Morning. Reading thread. All your hydra shenanigans give me a headache.
Anyway. Judging from behaviour i'm slowly inching towards voting Conq/PX. Serela seems like a townie, but not sure yet. Posting pretty  random things and all that. Shadormio votiong NNR is a bit weird to me. Practically baseless.
Ugh... I'll probably post something more coherent after a cup of coffee or 2.

[CF7]

Hummmm. To my previous post.
After reading Conq/BT i'm actually thinking that Conq is a townie. Not Sure about BT. And i still think that Shadoweh/Dormio is scum.
##Unvote for now.
Also would like to see that SB and Validon has to say.

[Shadoweh]

You think we're scum? O_o since when? I don't think voting nnr is baseless. Would really like Validon to post though so he can be super obvious town. Then we can lynch nnr and not conq at all.

[Mitsuki]

##FoS on Mitsuki for giving Validon a meta clear as well.

Actually I was holding off because I wanted Val's reply yet (didn't want to be TOO direct) but derp we're already at a voting stage.

##Vote Valtzotsuki

I think this avenue interests me the most actually. Even if I only gave a full proper explanation recently, the wide clear of any early Val presses + vote for said press leaves a pretty bad taste.

Ok, I'll quote my original post. Tell me where the "clear" is:

##Vote: BT

Validon usually does that kind of thing, so I think it's weird you're qualifying that as suspicious.

"Validon usually does that kind of thing". I didn't say "as town". I never implied it either. You're just misunderstanding me (?_u)
What I meant is that if Validon usually does x thing we can't say whether it's coming from one alignment or the other. I said "Validon should still be neutral", not "lol he's town". I didn't even try to say something about Validon's alignment.

Did he open last game this way? "That kind of thing" is conveniently vague.

Well, you said that what you thought suspicious was "clarifying unnecessary things" before my post and my post made it obvious that's what I was talking about, so I never intended to be vague. I just didn't explain it all again on my post.
In any case, Validon usually clarifies unnecessary things. I think he does that because those are not obvious for him. I think that's null.

[Vhaltz]

The whole BT/Conq slapfight is weird because there seems to be intent on both sides to keep the slapfight to a minimum, which means the slapfight quickly died down into a compromise to stop hitting each other. This makes it easy to miss that Conqueror never properly addressed at least one of BT's point in #85 regarding this post.

##unvote
##vote validon
for now; would like a response from him to my earlier question, especially now that i remember that one of the people bringing shadoweh up to l-1 was shadoweh herself so validon's comment seems like a twisting of the situation

His justification for the Validon vote as of -after slapfight- boils down to Validon's choice in words regarding the "screams mislynch" part of his post. He says this is scummy because it white knights Shadoweh's wagon (scum want to look town by telling people not to lynch a townie, in case clairification is necessary). This reasoning is clearly not the same as what we see above, and in general this overall view of Validon from his PoV doesn't tie in well with the way his posts on Validon have progressed in the course of the game so far.

In #36 he asks why Shadoweh must be a mislynch since scum can get to L-1 in ED1 too, waves off his suspicion with meta, then proceeds to vote for him in #57 like it's the most logical thing to do with no justification or reasoning whatsoever despite his earlier use of meta (this doesn't read like town!Conq). After an issue with NNR he proceeds to revote Validon again in #79 calling for an answer to a question that can't possibly give a satisfying answer while mentioning that Validon intended to twist the situation because the Shadoweh lynch wasn't happening due to herself being a voter in the wagon. This reads like Conq is trying to revote Validon again but he can't do it without saying something after voting him on empty reasoning once before, so he makes up whatever making him sound scummy. The way he worded Validon "twisting the situation" blowing things out of proportion is what reads scummiest and what set off my alarms.

Conq's logic generally flows very well and you can see what's going on in his head at the time, but the way he's proceeded around the Validon case this time is just in many ways. He says he rethinked his use of Validon meta which lead him to vote Validon for the white knighting but we never see that mentioned anywhere in the thread until BT points out his inconsistencies, which makes it an a posteriori fix to appease BT that I'm not buying (his whole reasoning on Validon seems to have changed along the way of the slapfight)

So ##FoS: Conq. Vote will come from Mitsuki if she still agrees after she's done rereading.

I have no comments on anyone else other than I kinda gut-like Dormio and Shadoweh. Probably because it seems like Dormio is putting in some effort this time due to rabu rabu incentive.

PD: I probably won't be popping in too often so that Mitsuki gets more mafia experience, just a heads up.

[Vhaltz]

:words:
I tried to keep things short this time I swear

[BT]

I tried mafiaphoning but it's really hard - I keep forgetting how I built the arguments in my head by the time I'm done with a few words. :& I'll be home in 4 hours.

[CF7]

You think we're scum? O_o since when? I don't think voting nnr is baseless. Would really like Validon to post though so he can be super obvious town. Then we can lynch nnr and not conq at all.

Mainly your NNR vote.

Also can someone enlighten me what FoS stands for?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Finger of Suspicion, or something to that effect.
Basically I'm watching you.

[Mitsuki]

On NNR:

First of all, were you the one to talk to HW about your role? wwwwwwwwwww

Second, I think people are voting him because he's not playing well and misunderstanding rather than doing scummy things. At least Shadormio's vote and Conqueror's were based on that.
There are also Serela's vote which has no reasoning to it at all and SB's which is just an RVS vote (hi SB, we haven't forgotten about your existence!). Is there any good vote on NNR yet?
I'm reading the fact he's being confused by hydras as genuine. I think he's trying to rationalize his confusion about Shadoweh and Dormio saying that hydras are at fault. In my opinion, there are more chances of that coming from town than from scum; scum would probably try to know better and I expect a different kind of reaction.

I'm not clearing him, but he leans to town in my opinion and on the other hand I don't think any of the votes on him are valid.


On Conqueror/PX/HW:

I kind of agree with HW's (even if he was part of the hydra) and Dormio's reasoning. (#43 and #47). I also agree with Vhaltz's last post now that he's written it, but I think Conqueror is being more lazy than last game here too so that might also explain part of it.
Despite that, there's the fact that Conqueror keeps jumping from vote to vote and that seems unnatural to me, even if he could be doing that to move the game he just doesn't seem to be interested in that. He's just messing up too much.
Additionally, how he dropped his NNR vote is very scummy from my point of view. There was this argument going on about a misunderstanding between NNR and people suspecting him. After a few posts Conqueror understood how NNR interpreted Validon's post, but he didn't drop his reasoning:

actually hmmm
nvm i see how you could read it that way; depends on how you arrange the clauses although i still kinda want you to explain how you got to your conclusion

--cut yeah that's what i figured but he doesn't actually say that does he? i read people as "the group of people voting for shadoweh"

##unvote
##vote validon
for now; would like a response from him to my earlier question, especially now that i remember that one of the people bringing shadoweh up to l-1 was shadoweh herself so validon's comment seems like a twisting of the situation

Here Conqueror says he understands NNR's logic, but gives the fact that NNR wasn't the one to explicitly state it as a valid point to keep suspecting him. Why? You're supposed to understand the reasoning, and you don't say you find it suspicious. Even if you cover it with words your suspicions are just based on the fact that he was misunderstood. However, how is being misunderstood scummy? It doesn't seem like you're saying that explanation was made up later, which clearly looks like something very unlikely.
I think that's quite an unnatural train of thought and something very convenient for scum to do. It lets you give up the vote for a better wagon but you can always go back to voting NNR if people vote him again (and I think he's an easy target).

##Unvote
##Vote: Conqueror/PX

[ActionDan]

V-V-V-V-Vountcount 1.3

BT (0) -
CF7 (0) -
Validon (2) - NNR, Conq/PX
Serela (1) - Validon
SB (0) -
Conq/PX (1) -  Vhaltz/Mitsuki
NNR (3) - SB, Serela, Shadoweh/Dormio
Vhaltz/Mitsuki (1) - BT
Shadoweh/Dormio (0) - 

NNR is at L-2!
Not Voting (1) - CF7

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch or no-lynch

Day 1 Deadline Countdown

[Conqueror]

This reasoning is clearly not the same as what we see above, and in general this overall view of Validon from his PoV doesn't tie in well with the way his posts on Validon have progressed in the course of the game so far.

...

Conq's logic generally flows very well and you can see what's going on in his head at the time, but the way he's proceeded around the Validon case this time is just in many ways. He says he rethinked his use of Validon meta which lead him to vote Validon for the white knighting but we never see that mentioned anywhere in the thread until BT points out his inconsistencies, which makes it an a posteriori fix to appease BT that I'm not buying (his whole reasoning on Validon seems to have changed along the way of the slapfight)

Explain how my reasoning clearly isn't the same, because I have no idea what you're talking about. All I did while talking to BT was clarify my reasoning, but it was always there and you can see it if you were reading my posts?

In #36 he asks why Shadoweh must be a mislynch since scum can get to L-1 in ED1 too, waves off his suspicion with meta, then proceeds to vote for him in #57 like it's the most logical thing to do with no justification or reasoning whatsoever despite his earlier use of meta (this doesn't read like town!Conq). After an issue with NNR he proceeds to revote Validon again in #79 calling for an answer to a question that can't possibly give a satisfying answer while mentioning that Validon intended to twist the situation because the Shadoweh lynch wasn't happening due to herself being a voter in the wagon.

How is this not town!Conq? I thought Serela and Validon were suspicious. I gave Validon a slight clear off meta and voted for Serela instead. Serela posted better, so I switched to Validon and decided that ~*meta*~ was a pretty bad reason not to vote for him anyway. Dude, just look at what I did with Serela in the last game; I pulled up a lot of meta on his claim being town before ignoring it and voting him for his content instead. You just saw this in the previous game; so I want to know from you why ignoring meta is scummy.

Why can't Validon give a satisfying answer to my question? That just sounds like completely bull and an effort to discredit what I'm asking him. Validon twisting the situation is an accurate statement given he used the word mislynch to describe a frigging RVS wagon with a self-voter on it. So yes, I want to hear from Validon himself why he decided to talk about it in that way.

This reads like Conq is trying to revote Validon again but he can't do it without saying something after voting him on empty reasoning once before, so he makes up whatever making him sound scummy. The way he worded Validon "twisting the situation" blowing things out of proportion is what reads scummiest and what set off my alarms.

Cool, how am I making stuff up? Looks like you're ignoring everything I said just to brush it off as "making something up."
Responding to Mitsuki in a bit.

[CF7]

Well, NNR doesn't seem to be a scum to me, so i don't want to jump on NNR wagon. As for the rest, i'm kind of undecided. Will wait with my vote for a bit more.

[Conqueror]

Before I respond to the rest of Mitsuki's post, I want to point out the time stamps between my posts which Vhaltz is conveniently ignoring. The initial vote on Serela, switch to Vhaltz, brief segue on NNR and switch back to Validon ALL HAPPENED WITHIN AN HOUR. I didn't jump from vote to vote last game because I was only here for a few hours out of the day, but when I was here I was pretty liberal in switching my vote as well (see the BBM/Serela/Shadoweh votemess). Vhaltz and Mitsuki were there when this was happening so they have no excuse for not knowing this and actually pushing my voteswitching as a reason I'm scummy.

Yes, I switch my votes often because I'm constantly rethinking my stances on people with or without new information in the thread. I could do this all in the comfort of a private QT but the way I scumhunt is by interacting and conversing with people and getting their reactions on stuff that is said in the thread. That's how I move the game along; by posting my opinion, engaging others in conversation, and asking for their opinions.

So Mitsuki, how am I not interested in moving the game along? How is "messing up too much" scummy in any way?

Additionally, how he dropped his NNR vote is very scummy from my point of view. There was this argument going on about a misunderstanding between NNR and people suspecting him. After a few posts Conqueror understood how NNR interpreted Validon's post, but he didn't drop his reasoning:

I don't see how you can say that I "understood how NNR interpreted Validon's post" and yet I didn't drop my reasoning. I mean, the latter pretty much follows from the former. But I'll play along.

Here Conqueror says he understands NNR's logic, but gives the fact that NNR wasn't the one to explicitly state it as a valid point to keep suspecting him. Why? You're supposed to understand the reasoning, and you don't say you find it suspicious. Even if you cover it with words your suspicions are just based on the fact that he was misunderstood. However, how is being misunderstood scummy? It doesn't seem like you're saying that explanation was made up later, which clearly looks like something very unlikely.
I think that's quite an unnatural train of thought and something very convenient for scum to do. It lets you give up the vote for a better wagon but you can always go back to voting NNR if people vote him again (and I think he's an easy target).

Did I ever say or indicated that I suspected NNR because he didn't explicitly state the reasoning that I thought he might have been following? No. Why are you putting words in my mouth? I dropped NNR from that unvote and think he's leaning town. This entire vote on me is based on something that didn't happen.

Additionally, the person who is suspecting someone because they didn't explicitly state reasoning on a vote is...you.

Vhaltz/Mitsuki's reasoning is kinda funky, want to see more from them.

[Conqueror]

Now that I think about it I think Vhaltz/Mitsuki is just trying to cherry pick my posts apart so that they can find some way to attack me. Okay, let's dance.

##Unvote
##Vote Vhaltz/Mitsuki
Explain your vote on me in a way that actually makes sense, please.

Also, Validon has made one friggin post. How much reasoning are you even expecting for a Validon vote? The fact that you're ignoring this and calling people out for flimsy reasoning for a one-line-one-post poster is pretty suspicious in itself. Essentially it boils down to a gut vote, but I tried to explain my gut in a way that makes sense to other people. And this is scummy?

[Vhaltz]

Gotta go in 5 min, quick reply to the important point.

well I got cut by two more posts so w/e we'll read and reply when we get back.

[Conqueror]

Well, NNR doesn't seem to be a scum to me, so i don't want to jump on NNR wagon. As for the rest, i'm kind of undecided. Will wait with my vote for a bit more.

That's fine. There's no need to be timid with your vote and opinions though. The biggest weapon of a townie is the control of the lynch, and if a townie's vote isn't in play that's more power to the scum.

[SB]

This post has been made 80% on an iPod. fml

BT finding Validon suspicious but not voting for him is not good. I also agree with BT wrt to Conq changing his Validon opinion but the aforementioned RVS vote staying on Validon for so long until prodded is kind of sketchy, especially when he implies he isn't gonna change it at first but then switches a few minutes later.

Can see where VM is coming from wrt Validon does this kind of thing normally but we saw how townreading people off of meta worked last game, right? >.> This goes for Conq too, but VM defending Validon from it by attacking BT makes it even worse.

Prims voting Conq in a post that actually at a skim doesn't seem bad is kind of scummy since it just lets them keep their vote off of anyone of actual value and then adapt their scumreads later.

Dormio, why would would Prims as scum try and draw attention away from the rest of the game and to himself? Agree with the rest of that post though.

Serela is bad for making a sizable post that boils down to "BT is interesting" but not saying anything because he hasn't responded, which is lame, and outing a townread on Shadoweh for some reason that he hasn't even explained. Also dislike Serela's vote on NNR because it essentially comes down to "I don't like the Validon wagon so I'm going to attack someone on it" without specifically mentioning NNR or why he's worse than the others.

Don't like CF's posts much. They pretty much say that Serela is town for posting random stuff (erm, how?)  and attacks Dormio/Shadoweh for voting NNR and saying that their vote is baseless without describing how, and that's the only thing out of the whole game they seem to have picked out as scummy by this point. Then they end it with a signiture "hey inactive people you should weigh in on things".

##Vote: CF

please don't let there be any more walls

[Conqueror]

SB, CF is an obvious newbie playing their first game. Why are you attacking him for having undeveloped reasoning given this?

Also the Prims self-vote went away as soon as I made another post (very quickly in other words), so I'd like to know how that kept me from putting my vote on anyone of actual value.

I also agree with BT wrt to Conq changing his Validon opinion but the aforementioned RVS vote staying on Validon for so long until prodded is kind of sketchy, especially when he implies he isn't gonna change it at first but then switches a few minutes later.

Who RVS parked their vote on Validon? I can't find what you're talking about so I kinda wonder if you're actually reading the thread.

[CF7]

Don't like CF's posts much. They pretty much say that Serela is town for posting random stuff (erm, how?)  and attacks Dormio/Shadoweh for voting NNR and saying that their vote is baseless without describing how, and that's the only thing out of the whole game they seem to have picked out as scummy by this point. Then they end it with a signiture "hey inactive people you should weigh in on things".

I said that Serela seems to be a townie.
Considering Shadoweh/Dormio. First there's some sort of RVS/Joke Serela wagon. Then NNR wagon started by Serela, joined by Conq, and then there's this Shadoweh post.

##Unvote
##Vote: Nekonekorex
For probably being the guy who messaged huh what you dolt
FoS is so weak. Also you're deriding my own reasoning and that's not cool.

For me it's not a townie vote at all. It's pretty random and looks like scum jumping on an easy wagon.
And this is my first game on this forum. I don't know people's meta. I'm just judging things as i see them.

[CF7]

and that's the only thing out of the whole game they seem to have picked out as scummy by this point.

Also aside from Conq-BT and Conq-Vhaltz/Mitsuki squabble people don't post much. For example you just came. Serela posted bunch of random crap, can't pick much from that. Validon was absent from the thread for quite some time too. I picked the only scummy thing that looked like a scummy thing.

[Vhaltz]

I'll attempt to be brief.

Content over meta is not the issue. My issue with the Validon votes is that there was no mention of discarding the earlier meta (which is essential to understanding the votes), vote n?1 on Validon was empty and revote n?2 mentioned other unrelated things and still didn't clarify why the readswitch. Reasoning only came afterwards when BT pointed out the contradiction. What's scummy isn't switching reads from meta to content, what's scummy is that there was no explanation of this happening, and since the explanation came later after somebody had pointed it out, it's likely that it was made up.

I personally didn't notice timestamps because we were asleep during the ordeal and read it all upon waking up.

Why can't Validon give a satisfying answer to my question? That just sounds like completely bull and an effort to discredit what I'm asking him. Validon twisting the situation is an accurate statement given he used the word mislynch to describe a frigging RVS wagon with a self-voter on it. So yes, I want to hear from Validon himself why he decided to talk about it in that way.

Because the question is literally "can't scum also get driven to L-1 in ED1?" and I can't fathom how a response to that question would give anything that's telling of his alignment. This was the only thing that accompanied your revote aside from the whole "twisting the situation" business in which I can't see scum benefit and it overall seems to be worded in a way to make it look deliberately scummier.


So my main issues with you are 1) how your thought process on Validon is unclear in-thread until the ~potentially made up a posteriori explanation~. It's convenient for scum to switch onto weak townie that's a potential D1 lynch early on. And 2) weird restatement of the earlier white knighting that's blown out of proportion in revote along with a poke on an irrelevant question, which makes me feel like it's all just filler for a scum-motivated vote to make it look nice.


I have no say on the voteswitch, NNR drop etc, I didn't go over Mitsuki's posts beyond helping her with some wording when she gets stuck (she has language difficulties every now and then) so I don't tell her what content to post and what not to post. I also haven't made her read enough games yet so she's still not very familiar with using mafia terminology herself. She takes a while to write out posts but she's working on it on a different computer so she'll reply eventually.

[Vhaltz]

and revote n?2 mentioned other unrelated things and still didn't clarify why the readswitch.

Before I get nitpicked I mean things unrelated to the reason behind the read switch (discarding meta and all). I focus on the read switch issue there and address the other things in the revote post a little later in the post.

[Mitsuki]

Before I respond to the rest of Mitsuki's post, I want to point out the time stamps between my posts which Vhaltz is conveniently ignoring. The initial vote on Serela, switch to Vhaltz, brief segue on NNR and switch back to Validon ALL HAPPENED WITHIN AN HOUR. I didn't jump from vote to vote last game because I was only here for a few hours out of the day, but when I was here I was pretty liberal in switching my vote as well (see the BBM/Serela/Shadoweh votemess). Vhaltz and Mitsuki were there when this was happening so they have no excuse for not knowing this and actually pushing my voteswitching as a reason I'm scummy.

Conqueror dear, your vote swaps were done at 5 am from our perspective (GMT +1:00 I think? We're Spanish AND SPAIN IS TOTALLY NOT IN SOUTH AMERICA*). Vhaltz and I were sleeping back then. Maybe Vhaltz left his computer on or something with an account still connected, but I can guarantee you that our sleeping habits are not that bad (=w=u
I never look at time stamps, by the way. I should start doing that, but for now I prefer improving other things (@A@)
You should have taken into account those factors when you placed your reasoning. Anyways, we can get a conclusion from all of this: You're being a little overreactive. (Don't overreact to this, it wouldn't be fun)

So Mitsuki, how am I not interested in moving the game along? How is "messing up too much" scummy in any way?

I'm quite sure messing things up too much (I said "messing up" but I meant "messing things up", my vocabulary failed and Vhaltz missed it) misleads town. Scum want to mislead town, so there's that.

I don't see how you can say that I "understood how NNR interpreted Validon's post" and yet I didn't drop my reasoning. I mean, the latter pretty much follows from the former. But I'll play along.Did I ever say or indicated that I suspected NNR because he didn't explicitly state the reasoning that I thought he might have been following? No. Why are you putting words in my mouth? I dropped NNR from that unvote and think he's leaning town. This entire vote on me is based on something that didn't happen.

I already stated the feeling I got from your post. Now that I've read it again I see that you clearly dropped it. I misunderstood you.
I should re-read Vhaltz's points against you and try to understand better. For now our vote stays on you, but I'm not that convinced anymore.

------------------
* Apparently some people believe that.