Author Topic: You Don't Know the Setup Mafia - Game Over! (Read 32702 times)

Conqueror · « **Reply #150 on:** August 20, 2013, 12:53:04 AM »

serela i was making another post anyway dont worry :>

shadoweh i must have blooodd >:<

I want to see where Vhaltz goes with this backing off of his first. I might go for a SB lynch but I'm kinda wary of mislynching him again because I'm pretty sure I can't read him. :V Already stated what I didn't like about his CF7 angle earlier though.

bt is giving me weird vibes but i dont know how to state them. it's probably because he's busy but im not sure where he's coming from in his latest post. need to see more from him.

validon would be a last resort lurker lynch to prevent the mod from getting a replacement but despite that it might have a decent chance of hitting scum. will probably wait until tomorrow though to see if it gets replaced or modkilled though. lamersssss.

dont want to lynch serela or nnr. or shadoweh for that matter but i dont think anyone is voting for that slot.

Conqueror · « **Reply #151 on:** August 20, 2013, 12:56:56 AM »

ebwop: i guess what im trying to say that it feels like bt is trying to ride the coattails of vhaltz/mitsuki's case on me to slide onto a vote on me. there's also the weird 1v1 thing; i cant tell if bt is talking about a 1v1 between me and vhaltz/mitsuki or a 1v1 between me and bt...which doesnt make sense.

either way it boils down to i dont know what bt is doing.

Conqueror · « **Reply #152 on:** August 20, 2013, 01:01:19 AM »

ebwodp: although i guess i'd ask nnr if vhaltz/mitsuki's latest posts have changed any of this views on that slot

Conqueror · « **Reply #153 on:** August 20, 2013, 01:04:11 AM »

*of his views

Conqueror · « **Reply #154 on:** August 20, 2013, 01:15:05 AM »

just to be clear one of the reasons im not stepping back from the vhaltz/mitsuki vote right now is because ive just about had it with scum trying to bullshit cases on me, and then me having to step away from the vote because other people brush off any slapfight as town/town. vhaltz admitting his case on me is faulty is a good step, but that's easy for him to do if he's scum especially as he's just walking away now and leaving his conclusion up in the air for tomorrow. doesnt help that he's only talked extensively about me up to the point where i cant tell what his reads on other people are, although im guilty of the same thing so im stepping back a little to look at other people.

so i want to see where vhaltz/mitsuki goes from here. i dont want people writing him off as town because he writes big paragraphs if he doesnt have the solid content to back it up,

Conqueror · « **Reply #155 on:** August 20, 2013, 01:18:31 AM »

And...now that I posted that it just looks dumb and petty.

Whatever.

##Unvote
##Vote: SB

Why is CF7 scummy for only picking one thing out of the game as scummy and saying Serela feels town?

ActionDan · « **Reply #156 on:** August 20, 2013, 01:27:17 AM »

Page Grab Fail Vountcount 1.5

BT (0) -
CF7 (1) - SB
Validon (0) -
Serela (1) - Validon
SB (1) - Conq/PX
Conq/PX (2) - Vhaltz/Mitsuki, BT
NNR (1) - Shadoweh/Dormio
Vhaltz/Mitsuki (1) - NNR
Shadoweh/Dormio (0) -

Not Voting (2) - CF7, Serela

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch or no-lynch

36 hours left!
Day 1 Deadline Countdown

Validon's slot will be modkilled if I don't find a replacement by deadline!11!11!

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #157 on:** August 20, 2013, 01:38:28 AM »

Fuck you and your Shadowrun Shadoweh. You're lucky I happen to be on break right now.
Anyway, psychoanalysis of current events: Dormio Edition.

First things first, there's the big flashy Vhaltz/Conq walls.
To be honest, I'm quite disinterested in them as a whole.
If I had to say anything about them, it would be that Vhaltz's case seems quite forced to me.
My other half disagrees and thinks that it's not indicative of anything but...

Serela is still being useless. Please contribute. Very tempted to vote.

As for NekoNekoRex, I'm not convinced like Conq is.
Let's say that he did genuinely make the interpretation mistake in regards to Validon's words.
I still think that the way he went about it was scummy.
But Shadoweh says otherwise. So whatever I guess.
Also everyone in this particular game, barring Shadoweh and Mitsuki, is male. Please get your gender pronouns right. It bugs me to no end.

I don't really know how much of this is repetition of other people's words, nor whether or not my words make any sense whatsoever, but I have assignments to work on so screw you.

Warning - while you were typing 6 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Shadoweh why.
I'll just make another post to try to explain my thoughts surrounding Vhaltz and Mitsuki.

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #158 on:** August 20, 2013, 02:07:29 AM »

So, Vhaltz and Mitsuki. Where to begin?
"The beginning!"
Well I might as well.

I find the entire first exchange between BT and Mitsuki to be very suspicious.

Quote from: BT on August 18, 2013, 08:14:39 PM

Hey, Val, was the explanation behind not lynching someone during RVS necessary? I don't think it was.

Quote from: Mitsuki on August 18, 2013, 09:24:12 PM

BT, do you find what Validon did suspicious? If so, why?

Quote from: BT on August 18, 2013, 09:42:48 PM

The need to clarify things even when they're obvious.

Quote from: Mitsuki on August 18, 2013, 10:03:22 PM

##Vote: BT

Validon usually does that kind of thing, so I think it's weird you're qualifying that as suspicious.

To me, this entire exchange looks choreographed.
Of course, this could be a result of my paranoia, but what else am I supposed to work off?
BT's first post seems something more akin to an offhand comment, yet Mitsuki singles out this particular post instead of anything else.
And then BT's response to Mitsuki that just throws me in for a loop.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't help but get the feeling that this was a planned conversation aimed at creating the appearance that Mitsuki was attempting to end RVS with a "serious" vote.
It just really strikes me that the responses seem a bit unnatural and the two of them disappear for a while after this series of events.
~D1 scumpair conspiracy theories~ aww yeah.

Of course, since my theories are usually wrong, and I don't really think that BT is scum, I want to focus on the Vhaltz/Mitsuki pair.
Mitsuki finally returns with a post here and there are a few things I don't like about it.
Mainly that she attempts to defend her position and states that she never gave a clear, nor implied one, towards Validon.
However, doesn't stating that a particular type of behaviour is typical of a player while voting for another player that attacks the aforementioned player for that behaviour contradict that statement? Mitsuki tries to dismiss this as holding a neutral stance, but in that case, why did she feel the need to defend Validon so?
If we look at Vhaltz's post that directly follows Mitsuki's, you'll notice that he votes for Conq.
What for? For attacking Validon, of course.
Something about this heavy defending of Validon from both Vhaltz and Mitsuki simply doesn't sit right with me.
I disagree with several of the points that Vhaltz brings up in his case, but Conq has already addressed that himself so I don't really care but something really stands out to me that I'll get to in just a moment.

Quote from: Vhaltzotsuki on August 19, 2013, 11:58:48 PM

What should I do then? Not pursue any cases in D1? I'm rarely convinced that my cases hit scum but if I think there's chances I'll go for it and it's what I have now. I want to think this is frustration speaking and I'll point out that you shouldn't take this personally beyond the game.

This response from Vhaltz causes a lot of alarms to ring in my head.
Instead of simply stating that it's a case that he believes in or something to that effect, Vhaltz launches into an overly emotionally charged response.
By asking something like "What should I do then? Not pursue any cases in D1?", he's implying that Conq is discouraging scumhunting while avoiding the main question that he was asked in the first place.
Something this manipulative should be burned in a fire.

At least, that's my sleep deprived opinion.
When is Shadoweh going to be done with her bloody Shadowrun?

Shadoweh · « **Reply #159 on:** August 20, 2013, 03:54:27 AM »

Shadowrun is important okay >:< Also Serela is a girl, there is no mistake there.
I agree that BT's stuff looks weird though, hence my question to him. I think I asked him a question?

Serela is whatever you want Serela to be

NekoNekoRex · « **Reply #160 on:** August 20, 2013, 06:38:21 AM »

I'm too tired from lifting 60lb hay bales all day, I won't be able to post until tomorrow morning.

NekoNekoRex · « **Reply #161 on:** August 20, 2013, 06:39:01 AM »

"Tomorrow" being figurative since it's already 2 AM.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #162 on:** August 20, 2013, 07:09:14 AM »

CONQ
YOU CAN PUT ALL THE WORDS IN ONE POST
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS
Also what do you think of a BT lynch, I think at least three of us have said he's vaguely weird, and I haven't mislynched him enough lately.

Conqueror · « **Reply #163 on:** August 20, 2013, 07:31:19 AM »

Depends on his response to me, really. I'm looking at the pool of Vhaltz/SB/BT right now. The Validon slot is going to be cleared up by the end of the day via modkill/replacement so it's useless to worry about that now.

Serela disappearing after asking for my opinion and not actually giving an opinion about who he wants to lynch is really frustrating. One day I will roll a vig and justice will be sweet.

Eh, I'm looking through SB again and I could see town!him potentially making that post given it's his first real content post of the game. I still don't like the vote and want his response to me but yeah after thinking it through BT's post is more likely to come from scum than SB's.

##Unvote
##Vote BT

Again, feels like he's riding the coattails of Vhaltz's argument since all of his points against me are basically borrowed from Vhaltz but without the benefit of having to respond to my rebuttal; at least Vhaltz is acknowledging my points while BT just kinda ignored they existed and said "yeah I agree with Vhaltz here etc"

Shadoweh · « **Reply #164 on:** August 20, 2013, 07:52:29 AM »

Dormio told me sheeping Conq is a perfectly valid reason to vote someone.
##Vote: BT

SB · « **Reply #165 on:** August 20, 2013, 09:44:47 AM »

@Conq(114) I guess you revoted pretty quickly, but eh. I still have a bad feeling on it, and the person I was talking about was BT.

Also I wasn't aware CF was new. I guess I'm okay with him for now, considering. What I was getting at with the Serela townread is that outing your townreads at random is not good play, it just tells the mafia who makes better kill targets. You should also vote.

##Unvote

@BT(134): Both this post and the last have been mostly made on an ipod, making it kind of hard to go into great detail. Kinda sucky excuse but eh (and my puppy chewing my wrist this morning hasn't exactly improved matters.) If you want to clarify what you don't understand, feel free to ask though.

Also Prims does stupid shit as town too, for the record, so I consider it null as far as meta goes, scummy in general though (half the time we can't take cop guilties seriously any more, thanks to him.)

Don't like Serela's #145. He basically builds a case on NNR at the start but then says nah, and unvotes. His post is full of a lot of worthless stuff, such as the "I don't like slapfights or things that aren't exactly well explained (ie WHY my vote was wrong/the stuff on Prims) and never actually gives out any scumreads other than NNR who he refutes later on in that post and leaves with an empty unvote.

So Conq beat me to it, and I just saw the reply. So your basis of your suspicion on me is not having much of a read on a specific player who has a lot of posts? That's pretty weak imo, especially when you didn't back it up with your vote. You haven't exactly said much on Conq either, and most of the game are at a loss of what to think of the wall war between him and VM too. There's something I don't like about Conq, but I can't pin it down and I'm not gonna vote him when I myself don't even know why I feel that way about him.

@Conq's vote on me, I think I explained this elsewhere in this post but meh. Randomly outing townreads isn't a good idea (generally agreed on SF) because unless they're likely lynch candidates, the scumteam are more likely to kill someone who they know most of the game won't vote for them. And only picking out one thing out of around four pages doesn't seem weak to you, especially considering I wasn't aware that CF was a new player?

##Vote: Serela

Why do I keep trying to make content posts on this thing?

Conqueror · « **Reply #166 on:** August 20, 2013, 10:18:51 AM »

Mmm, makes sense if you didn't know he was new, (although I disagree about the outing townreads part, theory-wise I think it's fine to out townreads but that can be a discussion for another day). Only one suspicious thing out of four pages isn't that bad given I was struggling earlier as well; the important thing to me at least is that it looks like he's trying to get a hold of the game even if he's not very clear about how he's doing it.

Although what do you think about the wall war between me and VM now that you've mentioned it?

Yeah, I don't think I want to vote SB anymore, since that reply clears up my earlier gripes with him and I'm interested in seeing how Serela responds to his case.

Mitsuki · « **Reply #167 on:** August 20, 2013, 11:28:22 AM »

##Unvote

I'm quite lost right now so I need to reread the thread, but I have no time. I don't suspect Conqueror anymore, the only thing left that I suspected last time I posted were his reactions but I think he was being genuine. I think that the fact that he didn't reply to me should be a meaningful point; if he did feel the need to reply to me I'd think he'd just be faking his reaction, but since he didn't and focused on Vhaltz I think he's just defending himself. I have no reason to doubt that, so he's null to me now.

If I had to vote someone that'd be CF7. He's doing nothing and detaching himself from the game and while I don't think that's scum motivated it'd be nice to give him an incentive to post. And since I don't have suspicions on other players, well, why not? I just ask everybody not to hammer before I'm back (since both Vhaltz and I will be on a trip and back before the end of D1) and I can decide what to do with my vote. If I don't suspect anyone and he's still doing the same he's done until now I'll be fine with the lynch.

##Vote: CF7

I know he's a newbie, but since when are newbies allowed not to post and that's fine with everybody? Do you think that's going to do any good for him to learn, let alone for the game to progress?

Vhaltz · « **Reply #168 on:** August 20, 2013, 12:11:20 PM »

Quote from: Conqueror on August 20, 2013, 12:20:32 AM

The way you keep trying to paint this as scum trying to bullshit his way out of a screw-up is why I don't like the way you're approaching the case. You've come to the conclusion that I'm scum and are presenting all my posts through that lens.

Well ditto. You're being overly focused on your OMGUS and are painting everything in my case as coming from scum trying to paint you as scum when town can make mistakes and/or be wrong. Looking at BT now everybody who puts down a vote on you seems to become a priority candidate to being scum and I'm baffled that an experienced player that does so well as scum can be as overly biased as this. Not implying that it makes you scum but having to deal with an OMGUS this aggressive is draining.

That said, whatever. I can only meta off the games I've read or played in, which are few, and everybody other than BT seems to be seeing town!Conq. We have a long trip later today and I don't have the time, conviction nor will to continue with the case right now. My earlier points don't stand anymore and I have difficulties parsing the tone, but there's nothing that indicates that Conq is town for me either as of yet, so null.

Dormio's case is D1 scumpairs and manipulation which makes me raise an eyebrow. I have nothing to say about the manipulation issue other than I was being pressed for time while writing it (Mitsuki wanted to go to sleep and I spent almost an hour writing it close to 2AM) and that it was a reaction to what I still think was an overblown OMGUS push against us. Still a better point than anything Conq and NNR have come up with though so it's probably genuine scumhunting. That aside, Dormio also seems to take special note on our comments on Validon being a defense when we've repeatedly clarified that we think of him as null.

Dividing up post for no more wall complaints.

Vhaltz · « **Reply #169 on:** August 20, 2013, 12:11:41 PM »

Priorities. Slight townreads so far are SB and Shadormio
I have trouble like everyone else in parsing how his priorities work since he pokes at multiple people in every post, but SB reads very similar to last game so I'm leaning town on him.

Shadormio is also fine so far, Dormio's latest case on us seems a little excessive in wording conviction for relatively weak points, possibly opportunistic at worst because this happens to be the point in the day that's core to wagon candidates consolidating, but his earlier posts are fine and Shadoweh reads town (don't think she'd :effort: on the NNR vote as scum, although I can't really remember last time I saw Shadoweh!scum. BT, Conq, how are you reading Shadoweh?).

About BT, I thought it was slightly town-telling that he said he was shifting priorities for the remainder of D1 but then poppid in to switch off our wagon onto a less-likely-to-be-lynched target (Conq). Mitsuki and I could've been a main wagon for the day at that point if he had decided to park his vote on us since NNR can be stubborn and Conq was pushing hard for our lynch. I know scum sometimes decide to stay off main wagons to avoid raising suspicion but I'm not sure how well that would work in a 9p game with maximum 2 mafia. I don't have much experience in the way of optimal mafia strategy since I've never rolled scum before so I could see myself being wrong about this, do tell if you think so.

Conq case was the best I had so secondary scumspects are pretty subpar if I say so myself. I'm not having the time to reread as often as last game and living together with somebody else means I can't schedule things and tell you guys when I'm gone ahead of time like I usually do.

Serela's "slapfights and walls are bad guys :C" antics read flufftastic and he seems to be using them as an excuse to not play beyond complaining about them. The only thing I've seen him do close to scumhunting is his NNR vote over "Validon wagon is silly and he jumped on it". Upon dropping the vote at the end of the post, he says he has to re-weigh opinions like he had a meaningful and weightful case to reconsider which he clearly stated himself was not the case. He's basically just standing there and flapping his arms over the walls shenanigans while not voting anybody or doing much of anything.
Mitsuki voted CF7 instead but let me ##FoS: Serela
You ask us to be clear about our opinions but you've given none yourself. I don't know where your priorities stand nor whom you've ever thought was scum since the NNR vote was pretty much a votepark instead of a vote with intent to lynch scum.

Dunno about CF7, want to see more posts from him.

CF7 · « **Reply #170 on:** August 20, 2013, 12:21:20 PM »

Ugh. I'm having a really really busy day at work. Also i wanted to type a wall of text myself, but really don't have the time for it atm.
In as few words as possible.
I think that Shadoweh/Dormio is most likely town because there's nothing in their posts that looks scummy to me.
Conqueror is also likely a townie.
Kind of suspecting Vhaltz/Mitsuki for overreacting with to somewhat trivial matter. And i think it's kind of a scummy behaviour.
After reading through Serela's post actually make me suspect him. There's almost nothing constructive, at least for this stage of day 1.
NNR is likely town, but i read something, that i can't quite put into words, but well. There's something that irks me off.
SB. Not sure. But judging from his posts i think he's probably a town.
BT not quite sure. Will looks through his posts some more.
And lastly Validon is not here.

So. I'm willing to vote Serela or Vhaltz/Mitsuki.
If this post looks kind of rushed, it was written during a 15 minute coffee break.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #171 on:** August 20, 2013, 12:33:06 PM »

Quote from: Vhaltzotsuki on August 20, 2013, 12:11:20 PM

That aside, Dormio also seems to take special note on our comments on Validon being a defense when we've repeatedly clarified that we think of him as null.

Quote from: Yoshino on August 20, 2013, 02:07:29 AM

Mainly that she attempts to defend her position and states that she never gave a clear, nor implied one, towards Validon.
However, doesn't stating that a particular type of behaviour is typical of a player while voting for another player that attacks the aforementioned player for that behaviour contradict that statement? Mitsuki tries to dismiss this as holding a neutral stance, but in that case, why did she feel the need to defend Validon so?

I get that you've stated your opinion of Validon as being neutral, but as I asked in my previous post, why bother defending Validon in that case?
To what extent and purpose did you do this? Why do you want to actively try to prevent the lynch of someone that you have no read on?

Quote from: Mitsuki on August 20, 2013, 11:28:22 AM

If I had to vote someone that'd be CF7. He's doing nothing and detaching himself from the game and while I don't think that's scum motivated it'd be nice to give him an incentive to post. And since I don't have suspicions on other players, well, why not? I just ask everybody not to hammer before I'm back (since both Vhaltz and I will be on a trip and back before the end of D1) and I can decide what to do with my vote. If I don't suspect anyone and he's still doing the same he's done until now I'll be fine with the lynch.

:wat:

Vhaltz · « **Reply #172 on:** August 20, 2013, 12:42:04 PM »

Gotta leave very shortly.

I can't fully answer to that question myself since it was Mitsuki's post but I figure she just wanted to contribute to RVS somehow.
Also Mitsuki clarified your second quote at the end of her last post. Keep in mind that she is also a pretty new player.

Vhaltz · « **Reply #173 on:** August 20, 2013, 12:42:45 PM »

To ending RVS I mean.

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #174 on:** August 20, 2013, 12:49:01 PM »

That doesn't explain why CF7 is scummier than anyone else that's providing very little content. Like Serela. Or NNR. Or SB. ~~Or Validon.~~

Vhaltz · « **Reply #175 on:** August 20, 2013, 01:19:01 PM »

Did you read her post?

It's essentially a prodvote to get more content from CF7 because there's no time for rereading. I know it kind of defeats the purpose when you actually say it's a prodvote but this is a common thing in the spanish forums I sometimes host mafia games in. Well, the difference being that this time around she said she will have lynch intent later on if there's no content provided.
She has nothing else to go on right now. We just came back from lunch and the last two days have been very pressed for time so no time for rereads. If my laptop battery doesn't die too soon in our trip we might do some rereading now while traveling (the reason why I missed your question is also because I was skimreading at points this morning to get posts done before lunch).

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #176 on:** August 20, 2013, 01:27:35 PM »

And I'm asking what differentiates CF7 from the other non-contributors.
Why is CF7 more worthy of the vote than the others?
Why is there a willingness to lynch CF7 without so much as a mention of the other non-contributors?

Mitsuki · « **Reply #177 on:** August 20, 2013, 01:30:43 PM »

Because there's no pressure at all on him? (o_o;

BT · « **Reply #178 on:** August 20, 2013, 01:30:55 PM »

If by chance there's some lurker following the thread they should probably replace me. I'll be proddodging through the rest of the day otherwise.

SB · « **Reply #179 on:** August 20, 2013, 02:10:47 PM »

Quote from: CF7 on August 19, 2013, 04:21:32 PM

I said that Serela seems to be a townie.
Considering Shadoweh/Dormio. First there's some sort of RVS/Joke Serela wagon. Then NNR wagon started by Serela, joined by Conq, and then there's this Shadoweh post.For me it's not a townie vote at all. It's pretty random and looks like scum jumping on an easy wagon.
And this is my first game on this forum. I don't know people's meta. I'm just judging things as i see them.

Quote from: CF7 on August 20, 2013, 12:21:20 PM

Ugh. I'm having a really really busy day at work. Also i wanted to type a wall of text myself, but really don't have the time for it atm.
In as few words as possible.
I think that Shadoweh/Dormio is most likely town because there's nothing in their posts that looks scummy to me.
Conqueror is also likely a townie.
Kind of suspecting Vhaltz/Mitsuki for overreacting with to somewhat trivial matter. And i think it's kind of a scummy behaviour.
After reading through Serela's post actually make me suspect him. There's almost nothing constructive, at least for this stage of day 1.
NNR is likely town, but i read something, that i can't quite put into words, but well. There's something that irks me off.
SB. Not sure. But judging from his posts i think he's probably a town.
BT not quite sure. Will looks through his posts some more.
And lastly Validon is not here.

So. I'm willing to vote Serela or Vhaltz/Mitsuki.
If this post looks kind of rushed, it was written during a 15 minute coffee break.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Hi there contradictions. I can sort of understand the Serela thing since his read is based off of a new post, but the Dormio thing is a blatant contradiction.

As for the Conq/VM interactions, I'm not sure what to make of them, honestly. I have a gut feeling that Conq is scum but he's refuting the arguments pretty well so I can't really pin anything down honestly. Not sure on VM either. And I'd say that the townreads thing (seeing outing them as scummy or not) is more of a culture difference than anything else.