Author Topic: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!  (Read 194719 times)

SeasideCharizard

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #120 on: August 16, 2013, 08:21:42 AM »
Next time on Gensokyo Mythbusters: Can Fantasy Nature truly last for as long as Reimu wants? Can Flandre truly destroy everything? Can Cirno's manipulation of cold allow her to alter it to the extent of negating it? Can Yorihime summon her own superior, Lord Tsukuyomi to do her bidding? Can a Hourai Immortal regenerate after having her body cut up into several parts and each of the body parts are put into small solid containers? Can ZUN chug down a bottle of non-alcoholic beer? Is Reimu's life truly vital to the existence of the Great Boundary? ...and more.
Watch to find out.
Okay, time to try my maybe-and-probably-filled hand at all of these.

1. I'm not even sure Reimu has any idea what in the world she's doing after it activates so probably not, though otherwise nobody knows

2. Depending on what everything is, probably

3. Probably not

4. Probably

5. Supposedly as long as the soul exists, yes

6. IMPOSSIBRU
Even if we tell him it's alcoholic he'll taste it immediately and make a Touhou character who tricks people by telling them decaf coffee is caffeinated

7. Maybe


Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #121 on: August 16, 2013, 11:18:40 AM »
Since Sagus beautifully evaded the threat my previous question may bring, here's another question:

How does magical power translate into danmaku skill? I used to think that more magic = more danmaku, but then seeing Yuugi, who supposedly has very little magic, do "Knock Out in Three Steps"...Or Satori's Suika Recollections...(although in Satori's case she might just have more power than Suika so she creates more danamku even though the pattern is the same).

ToyoRai

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #122 on: August 16, 2013, 11:41:27 AM »
I also want to ask about danmaku, and on the sense of WHAT it is made of. With the talk about SSiB, I wanted to check it out (Side note: I do find it ridiculous how Yorihime won without firing any danmaku herself). Before that, I had the idea that danmaku bullets were generally just energy and the text in Spellcards were just there for flavor. But then we have stuff like Stardust Reverie, which is pretty much rain of star-shaped cookies due the fact that starts don't twinkle in the Moon and Queen of Midnight which Yorihime block by making her glow because the bullets are made of darkness (or something, I forgot). So if stuff like that can affect danmaku, WHAT are they made out of?

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #123 on: August 16, 2013, 12:03:31 PM »
Did Yorihime even play by Spellcard rules...? The stuff she does are pretty blatantly against spellcard rules...

I always assumed that once an object is used in a Spellcard Battle, it merely becomes 'danmaku' and lose all its original property except size. Doesn't matter whether they're magical projectiles, talismans, cellphones (from one article in PMiSS, where Akyuu suggested using them as danmaku), or minisuns. Hence why normal humans like Marisa can get damaged by talismans, or why the heroines don't get radioactive cancer after fighting Utsuho. Eirin's pre-battle dialogue in IN FinalA also somewhat implies that those oval bullets she uses are medicinal pills (the stuff about "Medicine can heal, but can also be used as weapon").

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2013, 12:26:18 PM »
Yorihime plays by spellcard rules, just as the player character. She's going through a boss rush and bombing past every card. She plays exactly like I do.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #125 on: August 16, 2013, 02:08:52 PM »
D'oh, why do none of us realise that??  :o
Of course she just bombs every card...

But she's one hax character since she use different bombs and each bomb one-shot the entire card...

Tengukami

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #126 on: August 16, 2013, 04:33:30 PM »
Oh hey, I have a few questions actually. One of them isn't entirely serious (see if you can guess which one!)

1. In Aya's profile from Subterranean Animism it says, "As a tengu, she wanted to avoid actually going underground." Why "as a tengu"? What dangers would await a tengu in particular underground?

2. Did we ever get a ruling on whether or not radio or television broadcast waves can traverse the Hakurei Border?

3. Are youkai lactose intolerant?

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Sagus

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #127 on: August 16, 2013, 04:40:40 PM »
Who is saying Utsuho ate a corpse anyway? Also you can try searching my old Utsuho thread (linked to relevant post), to see if it ever came up.
I see it mentioned from time to time; TV Tropes Fridge page, for one, or a drawing with Okuu on a "time-out" box with the sign" being punished by eating the corpse of a god".

Yeah, I remember that thread; it's in fact the one that made me do some research and discover that nowhere in canon it's said that she ate the Yatagarasu's corpse. I'm just curious as to where the idea came from in the first place.

Oh hey, I have a few questions actually. One of them isn't entirely serious (see if you can guess which one!)

1. In Aya's profile from Subterranean Animism it says, "As a tengu, she wanted to avoid actually going underground." Why "as a tengu"? What dangers would await a tengu in particular underground?

2. Did we ever get a ruling on whether or not radio or television broadcast waves can traverse the Hakurei Border?

3. Are youkai lactose intolerant?
1. Maybe she was afraid of running into oni? They bossed over the tengu, once; I don't think they were the nicest rulers. Or maybe it's just that, since they (well, at least the crow caste) are creatures of the skies, going beneath the earth doesn't sit well with them.

2. It's never stated if they can or can't, as far as I know.

3. Only cat youkai :V
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CyberAngel

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #128 on: August 16, 2013, 04:48:06 PM »
1. In Aya's profile from Subterranean Animism it says, "As a tengu, she wanted to avoid actually going underground." Why "as a tengu"? What dangers would await a tengu in particular underground?

Some oni stayed in Ancient City, and they were tengu's (and kappa's, by the way) superiors. She (and Nitori too) was afraid that showing up before them might make them want to go back and retake Youkai Mountain. That, and surface youkai in general can't go underground due to agreement.

2. Did we ever get a ruling on whether or not radio or television broadcast waves can traverse the Hakurei Border?

Such thing was never addressed. Considering cell phones don't work in Gensokyo, probably not.

3. Are youkai lactose intolerant?

...What the heck even made you ask that, I wonder?

Tengukami

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #129 on: August 16, 2013, 04:56:17 PM »
1. OK, I thought it might have something to do with oni. Much appreciated.

2. Hm, cellphones are a different deal than radio and TV, but was it said that the cellphone wasn't working because of the Border?

3. Haven't you ever wondered if youkai can handle dairy? I dunno about you, but I wonder about it all the time. Was just seeing, as a thought exercise, if there was even the flimsiest, thinnest evidence one way or the other.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Sagus

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #130 on: August 16, 2013, 05:01:32 PM »
2. Hm, cellphones are a different deal than radio and TV, but was it said that the cellphone wasn't working because of the Border?
I think it's stated somewhere in PMiSS that outsiders keep staring at cellphones as if expecting something to happen and break down crying when it doesn't (I may be paraphrasing a bit), but it's never stated if it doesn't work because of the barrier or not. I'd expect that even without the barrier, Gensokyo would have terrible reception, if it even had any; the place is a mountain range, after all.
Peketo's Drawing Stuffs
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My fanfics.

Tengukami

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #131 on: August 16, 2013, 05:14:43 PM »
I think it's stated somewhere in PMiSS that outsiders keep staring at cellphones as if expecting something to happen and break down crying when it doesn't (I may be paraphrasing a bit), but it's never stated if it doesn't work because of the barrier or not. I'd expect that even without the barrier, Gensokyo would have terrible reception, if it even had any; the place is a mountain range, after all.
For whatever reason I decided to look up mobile coverage in Japan. If Gensokyo is physically located where it might be, coverage there is actually pretty good. So maybe that is the Barrier at work.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

CyberAngel

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #132 on: August 16, 2013, 05:17:05 PM »
3. Haven't you ever wondered if youkai can handle dairy? I dunno about you, but I wonder about it all the time. Was just seeing, as a thought exercise, if there was even the flimsiest, thinnest evidence one way or the other.

Youkai chemistry is vastly different from human, their sicknessess and disorders are too different from human ones, considering they need different medicines.

Fonzi

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #133 on: August 16, 2013, 05:18:04 PM »
Gensokyo: "We don't have phone signal, but we have cellpones. We don't have radio signal, but we have radio towers. We have no electricity consumption, but we have an energy crisis."

Tengukami

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #134 on: August 16, 2013, 05:24:48 PM »
Gensokyo: "We don't have phone signal, but we have cellpones. We don't have radio signal, but we have radio towers. We have no electricity consumption, but we have an energy crisis."

It is a good thing they have magic because it really is an inefficiently run society.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Sagus

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #135 on: August 16, 2013, 05:34:57 PM »
For whatever reason I decided to look up mobile coverage in Japan. If Gensokyo is physically located where it might be, coverage there is actually pretty good. So maybe that is the Barrier at work.
...should've expected that their coverage would be superior to what I'm used to =P
Peketo's Drawing Stuffs
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My fanfics.

CyberAngel

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #136 on: August 16, 2013, 05:39:55 PM »
We have no electricity consumption, but we have an energy crisis.

Human Village has electrical lighting in FS, but that has most likely appeared AFTER Kanako's cold fusion experiment triggered by an energy crisis. But there are also tengu and kappa societies, and we haven't seen them yet, so they might have had an energy problem.

Fonzi

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #137 on: August 16, 2013, 06:18:56 PM »
Before there was electricity, street lights in cities and villages used oil and looked almost identcally to some of the modern electric street lamps.

Sagus

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #138 on: August 16, 2013, 06:32:48 PM »
Suzunaan has an eletric lamp hanging on the celling. Although it could be a gas one, as you said.
Peketo's Drawing Stuffs
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My fanfics.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #139 on: August 16, 2013, 07:42:10 PM »
Patchouli has a desk lamp, although the fact that it could be a plant and that it's Patchouli means it might be magically powered.

ToyoRai

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #140 on: August 16, 2013, 08:28:18 PM »
We don't have radio signal, but we have radio towers.
Then again, probability of the radio tower having just appearing into Gensokyo due of being left into some forest for a long time is possibility.

Drake

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #141 on: August 16, 2013, 08:46:18 PM »
How does magical power translate into danmaku skill? I used to think that more magic = more danmaku, but then seeing Yuugi, who supposedly has very little magic, do "Knock Out in Three Steps"...Or Satori's Suika Recollections...(although in Satori's case she might just have more power than Suika so she creates more danamku even though the pattern is the same).
They aren't related. Danmaku is meant to be incredibly easy to generate, so that even fairies and certain humans can use it (basically, danmaku can be anything you want). How elegantly and smartly they can use it is the key point. The oni danmaku is different, as they use ~mysterious oni powers~ to do whatever they do.

I also want to ask about danmaku, and on the sense of WHAT it is made of.
Anything you consider to be used as danmaku.

Patchouli has a desk lamp, although the fact that it could be a plant and that it's Patchouli means it might be magically powered.
Noteworthy: Marisa has a similar flower lamp in UFO, which either means she learned the magic used to do so... or she borrowed it.

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cuc

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #142 on: August 17, 2013, 03:21:44 AM »
>SA Yukari script

Unrelated to the discussion, there's a mistranslation in last line of Stage 5:
Quote
Reimu: 神様って消化に良いのかなぁ
Wiki translation: I wonder if it's okay to eat gods like that...
Correct translation: I wonder if gods are easy to digest...


An update on Hijiri's wings:

It has been pointed out that the pattern of the heart in the center of her wings comes from a 8th century treasure kept in Shosoin (treasure house of Todaiji), likely imported from Tang dynasty China, known as 黄金瑠璃鈿背十二稜镜. It's a silver mirror decorated with gold, silver and ceramic (click to enlarge).

(A larger picture)

The same person who pointed out this also believes this "four turrets with beating heart in the center" image is a reference to the final boss of Contra, which is a shakier conclusion.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 04:48:37 PM by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #143 on: August 17, 2013, 07:12:31 AM »
Looks like 6 turrets to me.

cuc

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #144 on: August 17, 2013, 07:32:18 AM »
By "4 turrets", I mean the 4 laser turrets on her wings. The mirror's back pattern itself is only used as the beating heart in the center (and also in the game's main UI on the right side).

EDIT: For people not familiar with ancient Chinese mirrors: those mirrors are always lavishly decorated on the back, because being mirrors, they are flat on the front.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 08:12:26 AM by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #145 on: August 17, 2013, 10:56:55 AM »
Quote
As dubious or doubtful it sounds, have you seen the full potential of the character's spells without Spell Card Rule resstrictions? ZUN states a fact, which is or isn't hard to swallow. You say he's just exaggerating? Prove it. Oh, wait, you can't. Because like it was already said here, we will not see instances where the rules of Spell Cards will be ignored. In order to understand this, we must first understand what Spell Cards are - they are weakened, non-lethal versions of magical attacks, which are designed to be beautiful and avoidable, hence their descriptions sounding like an exaggeration of what we actually see in the games.

There are definite inconsistencies that are in Imperishable Night Spell Card descriptions that would make such argument not make sense.
If I were to take Imperishable Night literally, there are a lot of things I can claim. For example, the assertion that Melee > Danmaku, this is fact, because it is mentioned in Remilia's Last Word. That would mean any Danmaku attack is inferior, but Musou Tensei is Danmaku... Now, we have 2 separate spell cards making contradictory claims.

Kaguya's Impossible Request "Jewel from the Dragon's Neck -Five-Colored Shots-", did you know that it grants wishes? You can wish for anything with it.

Quote
The consumption of energy we see in the games when using big attacks is nothing more than the application of Spell Card rules in action. Powerful attacks should not be declared right off the bat.

There is nothing in the Spell Card rules that say powerful attacks cannot be used right off the bat. Yorihime's first special attack against Remilia was an extremely powerful one, in addition to hitting weakness.
The consumption of energy is meant to show how strong the card is and the amount of energy that user needs to use to do such a move.

Quote
where exactly does it say that Reimu becoms "unconscious" during Fantasy Nature?

This is an assumption, taken from Marisa's grimoire.
but it looks like she just closes her eyes; then, the danmaku aims itself and fires towards the enemy automatically.
That sounds like unconsciously attacking to me.

Quote
Wiki translation: I wonder if it's okay to eat gods like that...
Correct translation: I wonder if gods are easy to digest...

I see, that's an interesting comment... So what? Reimu is planning on eating some gods or something?

Fonzi

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #146 on: August 17, 2013, 11:49:03 AM »
We're still on about that? Alright. Let's talk about some details one by one.

Quote
For example, the assertion that Melee > Danmaku, this is fact, because it is mentioned in Remilia's Last Word. That would mean any Danmaku attack is inferior, but Musou Tensei is Danmaku... Now, we have 2 separate spell cards making contradictory claims.

The full description of Scarlet Destiny is: High speed scarlet. Showing her power straightly without any cheap tricks. In fact she's more of the physical type than magic type, dominating everyone with her superior physical strength. Melee > Danmaku.
It's not talking about what Remilia does during this particular Spell Card. In this context, it simply explains her mindset. It's not stating that melee is better than danmaku as a fact, it states that Remilia thinks way. This is even shown in SSiB. Unless someone points out there's a mistake in translation of those lines. Do you see her ever use a melee attack in that card? I surely didn't.

Quote
Kaguya's Impossible Request "Jewel from the Dragon's Neck -Five-Colored Shots-", did you know that it grants wishes? You can wish for anything with it.

Full description:  One of the impossible demands Kaguya presented. Each jewel contains stars, and it's said that if you collect 7 of them, it'll grant anything you wish.
Note the expression "it's said that". This means it's not presented here as a fact, but as a rumor, unlike the effect of Fantasy Nature.

Quote
Yorihime's first special attack against Remilia was an extremely powerful one, in addition to hitting weakness.
Then again using Yorihime, a character who even ZUN refuses to put into any game due to how broken she is, as a comparison to Gensokyo's girls, is not going to have much weight in this argument. To her, summoning Gods may not be considered as breaking the rules or something that's too strong.  It's as if she was having a duel against 4 stage 1 bosses, or even weaker. 1 bomb enough to break the enemy spell.

Quote
The consumption of energy is meant to show how strong the card is and the amount of energy that user needs to use to do such a move.

If this is true, then it contradicts the notion of powerful spells being allowed to be used right from the beginning. Every new battle in the games starts with both characters with no power. This power required to use Spell Cards is gained through hitting the enemy, grazing or getting hit. In other words, the battle needs to last for a while before anyone can activate a Spell Card.

Quote
That sounds like unconsciously attacking to me.

If floating away from "anything and everything" includes consciousness too, then yes. But closed eyes don't necessarily mean she has to be unconscious. It's not the only card where she uses homing danmaku, so having her eyes open may not even be necessary. Several of Reimu's Spell Card activations in Hisoutensoku show her sprite with closed eyes during the spell's effect, not just during FN.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #147 on: August 17, 2013, 02:16:16 PM »
Can anyone put the link(s) where ZUN is talking about the Lunarian princess being too broken or something, please?
 
I also recall once reading somewhere that ZUN was talking about those 2 princess being too strong... or something like that in either one of ZUN manga extra or somewhere else. If anyone know what I'm talking about could you also put the link for that one also.

ToyoRai

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #149 on: August 17, 2013, 04:09:50 PM »
Someone said that in official materials not drawn by ZUN, he "doesn't police the creative control" and that one can outright ignore anything not drawn by him.

I disagree with him/her, as I doubt ZUN would let other people mess with official materials without his consent, but what do you think?