Power of the ladies: How do they work?

[TrueShadow]

If danmaku is indeed affected by physics, then one interpretation of Wakasagihime's ability might be that she can control her danmaku better while in water. She must have been used to how to do things underwater, danmaku included.

[TrueShadow]

Okay, reviving thread.

So, we know that 'abilities' can evolve right? Yuyuko was originally only able to manipulate spirits before evolving to invoking death. Miko said she only gained ability to listen to the ten desires after her resurrection, before she can only listen to ten conversations. And if we believe Maribel = past Yukari theory, then Yukari initially was only able to see boundaries, not manipulating them.

Now if, say, one other character evolve their abilities, what would the evolved abilities be?

Like for example, Yuuka's 'flower manipulation' might evolve to 'manipulation of life' or 'manipulation of body parts' (making her has similar ability to Nico Robin from One Piece)

[ToyoRai]

Like for example, Yuuka's 'flower manipulation' might evolve to 'manipulation of life' or 'manipulation of body parts' (making her has similar ability to Nico Robin from One Piece)

How do you get from growing plants to being able to manipulate life or grow body parts? I think next step of her power evolution would be able to fully control plants and make them dangerous (i.e. Poison Ivy).

[Kirnis]

What's the full extent of Seija and Sukuna's power though?  Can Seija like, reflect attacks directed at her or reverse intangible concepts like time, flow of liquid, etc.

This is what intrigued me recently.
I think she might have reversed the perception of the protagonist during the fight in stage 5.
But she is probably unable to apply her power on a large scale, since she needed the power of the mallet for her purpose.

[TresserT]

You people think Wakasagihime's power should taken like it is said? As in, can we really say she actually becomes stronger while underwater? How can we be sure that it is said like that because most people see her outside the water and once she gets back in water she just seems stronger? Or maybe it is because she is just harder to beat underwater because most people then try to go after her, allowing her to kick their asses in her natural habitat?

I like to think of it as quantitative rather than either/or. Like, the deeper she goes the stronger she gets. Don't have any proof for it, but it would explain why she's a stage one boss even with the water bonus :p

[Imosa]

This is what intrigued me recently.
I think she might have reversed the perception of the protagonist during the fight in stage 5.
But she is probably unable to apply her power on a large scale, since she needed the power of the mallet for her purpose.

Yeah I think she doesn't have the raw strength to pull off more impressive feats like her attempt to flip social structure.

[TrueShadow]

How do you get from growing plants to being able to manipulate life or grow body parts? I think next step of her power evolution would be able to fully control plants and make them dangerous (i.e. Poison Ivy).

I'm just trying to think in a non-obvious manner. Like, listening to 10 people at once -> hearing ten desires of a person isn't really an obvious step of evolution.

My line of thinking is that she's able to grow plants, but plants are a form of life, too. That means she's actually able to create life, although limited in form of plants. If her abilities grow stronger, she might not be limited to plants alone.

And does Koishi count as 'power evolution'? She might more be 'power replacement' though...

[Starxsword]

Like for example, Yuuka's 'flower manipulation' might evolve to 'manipulation of life' or 'manipulation of body parts' (making her has similar ability to Nico Robin from One Piece)

Considering Yuuka's age, I'm pretty sure her abilities of flower manipulation won't evolve any further.

Yuyuko's ability evolved, because she was young at the time and the power got stronger. Yuuka's already way over 1000+ by now.

I think she might have reversed the perception of the protagonist during the fight in stage 5.
But she is probably unable to apply her power on a large scale, since she needed the power of the mallet for her purpose.

Seija's ability is kind of contradictory, which is unfortunate for her. Her ability won't allow her to rebel against stronger youkai, because she is weak. And if she is strong enough to do so, then, she would no longer be weak.

And does Koishi count as 'power evolution'? She might more be 'power replacement' though...

Evolution? I wouldn't say so. She pretty much self destructed and gained a new power from it.

[Hatateru]

This is what intrigued me recently.
I think she might have reversed the perception of the protagonist during the fight in stage 5.
But she is probably unable to apply her power on a large scale, since she needed the power of the mallet for her purpose.

Seija's power itself is intriguing :V For one, the extent of her power makes me curious. I mean, could it have the same potential as Accelerator's (from Railgun) reversing power?

[Starxsword]

My opinion of her power is that it just doesn't work, or works against her you can say. If it is strong, it will make her weak. And if she is weak, well, it isn't strong enough to help her.

[Phoenix-P]

about seija, she is a amanojaku right? these are like small oni and are thought to provoke a person's bad thoughts that lead them into doing bad stuff- maybe her turning ability can also change a person's will? like making a nice person's mind go opposed as his original one? she could also make personalities oppposite, taking the reverse ability a little further

[Drake]

no

They aren't actually small Oni either; Oni means a very particular thing in the Touhou universe.

[Phoenix-P]

seija is really a misterious one then  , i hope her powers get explained on a next print work like the symposium of post-mysticism 

[Sagus]

There's nothing really mysterious about her. She can invert things. Invert them in the sense that she can invert the color scheme of her danmaku. Or invert the game screen (probably a representation of her flipping the protagonist's perception). I doubt she's capable of anything really major. If she were, she wouldn't need the Miracle Mallet to achieve her goals.

[Imosa]

There's nothing really mysterious about her. She can invert things. Invert them in the sense that she can invert the color scheme of her danmaku. Or invert the game screen (probably a representation of her flipping the protagonist's perception). I doubt she's capable of anything really major. If she were, she wouldn't need the Miracle Mallet to achieve her goals.

Implying that either of your examples aren't considered major. 

Phoenix-P, I don't see any reason why she wouldn't be able to flip a person's personality or will. I don't even see how that's related to being an Oni.

[Sagus]

Exactly how is changing something's color scheme and the way a person sees around them "major"? One is literally cosmetic, the other affects only a single person.

She herself said that she's weak; it's the whole reason DDC even happened in the first place. If she was capable of anything really dangerous, she wouldn't be complaining about being bullied by stronger youkai.

[Phoenix-P]

well, the oni thing was for her species in japanese folklore, since we dont have more data about that based on the games or other works, and her species should be able so say something too
yeah, maybe she is not a big problem after all, even though the perception change can be tricky

[ToyoRai]

"Annoying" is really how I would put Seija's powers being. She is too weak to have her powers to be that major, but I think her ability to invert things does allow them to be annoying.

[Drake]

well, the oni thing was for her species in japanese folklore, since we dont have more data about that based on the games or other works

The second line of her character profile outright says they are not a type of oni. This is literally the only statement about Amanojaku in the official works, so it's incredibly odd that the first thing you had picked to assume about them contradicts that one statement lol.

[Cybeast710]

Nue's ability is with Seeds of Non-Definition, I believe.

So, how I believe it works is that the seeds make the target undefined. An undefined target can be anything, as it is, well, undefined. Without definition, it is anything and nothing. In fanworks (which I acknowledge are almost useless for evidence, but canonical evidence is sketchy and its not that far fetched), they've been used to create widescale illusions and cause transformations in Nue.

However. When called out on it, the illusions IMMEDIATELY vanished. Why? Because they became DEFINED, and the Seeds were destroyed.

I was thinking about this, and you know who ELSE was similar to this?



Doopliss! He made Mario undefined. Remember, he couldn't be seen or heard by anyone except Vivian.

Then, after that, when his name was applied, he FLIPPED OUT. He lost his power over Mario, and after being trounced, he couldn't try that ability again. Again, he was DEFINED.

Funny, isn't it?

[Kosachi]

Nice find, Slick!

[Biakmon]

I was wandering shouldn't the thread about Nue and Rumia power belong to how the power of the ladies work?

[Tengukami]

I was wandering shouldn't the thread about Nue and Rumia power belong to how the power of the ladies work?

Agreed, merging now.

e: Gonna leave the Rumia thread where it is, seeing as how it's at 2 pages anyway.

[monhan]

Regarding Nue's power,there are some questions that I've been wondering.
Any explanation on why Nue's power of the unknown didn't work on Byakuren? She saw those UFOs only as pieces of wood, it's real form. It can't be that it's because it was the fragments of the Tobikura and Byakuren knew it, unlike the 3 heroines. That will make Nue's power totally useless for something that someone used to know.
Not only that, Byakuren also remembered Koishi in SoPM and in HM(Miko forgot her, for comparison. This is before the Mask of Hope did it's magic to help Koishi getting remembered). Though Koishi's ability is still kind of confusing. (Scratch that, Marisa also remembered her so maybe it's nothing big)
And later in HM, she almost immediately saw through Mamizou's disguise. Everyone realized there's something wrong, but only Byakuren knew right away what exactly happened there.
Is this mentioned anywhere or did she have anti-youkai charms/mindfuck or something?

Also on Seija, let's say that she just can flip physical things and senses, not feelings and abstract things.

[Cybeast710]

Regarding Nue's power,there are some questions that I've been wondering.
Any explanation on why Nue's power of the unknown didn't work on Byakuren? She saw those UFOs only as pieces of wood, it's real form. It can't be that it's because it was the fragments of the Tobikura and Byakuren knew it, unlike the 3 heroines. That will make Nue's power totally useless for something that someone used to know.

Hmm... well, I think she knows Nue's antics, and I think that yes, IF THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE SEEING, she CAN'T DISGUISE IT.

[Kwak]

Not to derail the thread too much, but I've been having some power-related observations regarding Reimu and the Watatsuki sisters.
So Yorihime can summon gods, that's pretty straightforward. And according to ZUN Toyohime has " 'the ability to connect mountains and seas', which is an ability to move anywhere she likes. "
Looking at Reimu, it seems like she actually has two abilities: "The ability to float", which includes floating in and out of existence, and summoning gods. (I don't think it's just a shrine maiden thing, otherwise Sanae would be able to do it too, right?) These are really similar to the Watatsuki sisters' powers, the main exception being that they use their power much more effectively than Reimu, while she could potentially be as powerful as both of them put together. They're also some of the most hax'd characters in the series.
I'm not sure what to make of this. Coincidence? Does it just represent their similar plot armor? Or could the Watatsuki clan be related to the Hakurei bloodline somehow? And what about Reimu's border manipulation?

[Drake]

Reimu's ability to float isn't really similar to mountains-seas. Toyohime's power is mostly just to let her move to the Earth conveniently and tie in with other background stuff. The abilities of Reimu and Yorihime are also very likely unrelated (in a family sense).

In particular though, Reimu has the ability to summon Gensokyo's native gods. Sanae and other priests just channel the gods they're connected to, the ones that actually lend them powers. Reimu and Yorihime are like the honey badger.

[Sagus]

Sanae can summon her own gods, at least, but she's not really a normal shrine maiden, what with also being a god and all.

I certainly wouldn't say that Toyohime's ability is in any way similar to Reimu's "ability to float". Toyo's ability seems more similar to Yukari's gaps. Reimu's just allow her to become intangible.

As far as I remember, Reimu can't manipulate borders; the only times she seems to do so she was either having Yukari's help (like in SA) or just teleporting in a way very distinct from Yukari's (like she does in the fighting games, where she just vanishes and appears somewhere else).

Her ability to summon gods is ideed the same as Yorihime's, though, which's why she was used to clear Yorihime's name at the end of SSiB/CiLR. As for why this is, I'd say it's just a coincidence. Although, since we know next to nothing about the Hakurei bloodline, maybe they're descendants of a branch of Yorihime's family that was exiled to Earth for some reason or another. Needles to say, though, this is purely speculative and has no solid basis in canon.

[Kwak]

As far as I remember, Reimu can't manipulate borders; the only times she seems to do so she was either having Yukari's help (like in SA) or just teleporting in a way very distinct from Yukari's (like she does in the fighting games, where she just vanishes and appears somewhere else).

She used Dream Sign "Duplex Barrier" in PCB before having even met Yukari, and Boundary "Duplex Danmaku Barrier" in Imperishable Night when acting alone as a boss. That's what made me think she had border manipulation.

[Prime32]

Reimu throws around barriers all over the place, and she's incredible at dispelling/breaking them (Marisa calls it her "cheat technique").

As for god-summoning, isn't Sanae's official title "ritualist" or something? That is, she and Reimu don't have exactly the same training.