Rewrite Mafia (Game Over - Town and Third Party Win)

[Validon98]

I'm not agreeing with everything coming my way, I JUST DON'T KNOW WHO TO TRUST BECAUSE YOU ALL HAVE DONE SOMETHING AT SOME POINT THAT HAS MADE YOU LOOK SCUMMY!!!

##Unvote

You people are driving me nuts at this point. I can't trust ANYONE, I DON'T know who to vote for, and I might as well not until SOMETHING comes up. I'm half ready to suicide and just get out of this game, because I'm done with you all trying to manipulate my opinion and my vote.

[I have no name]

Trust yourself.

Vote who you think is the scum.  Look at the actions people have made, decide for yourself.  Explain your reasoning.  Everyone does something at some point, it's a matter of who's done the most bad things and how bad they are.

We aren't trying manipulate your opinion/vote, but get our own opinions out there with a vote to back it up.  So, maybe you could look back and do the same?

Also suiciding/being modkilled is never never never never never NEVER a good idea.

[Validon98]

Screw it, I've reread Affinity's case on IHNN and Bard's post, and I can't believe I overlooked that. Bard, what's with the lack of info on IHNN, especially when you did end up reading the people you were going to? Bard and IHNN are right now seeming more fishy than usual, and though I'm still going to withhold my vote for now, I wouldn't mind placing it on either one.
Cut: Yeah, you're really helping yourself there. You still seem fishy to me and I don't want to hear that I'm blindly following other people's opinions when THEY MAKE SENSE.

[I have no name]

Yeah, you're really helping yourself there.

Well, the point was to try to help you out, not to help me out.

[Shadoweh]

IHNN: Fair enough that it could happen, even if it's a wagon I don't want. As scum I still don't think I would have outted myself to an ITP's tender mercies or tried to turn people against lynching him instead though. It just wouldn't make sense to do to me.

I can't read words longer so sleep

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

guess im not quickhammering

##Vote: IHNN

shadoweh's vote was on scum, otherwise they wouldn't have blocked her again.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

So, I'm scum for voting someone I thought was scum before they claimed ITP because they claimed ITP later thus making my logic invalid despite it having been valid with the information available at the time, assuming I'm reading your post correctly.  If you're fine with my content outside of the thing on HW which was perfectly fine for the knowledge of the time, why did you vote me?Seriously rethinking this, i didn't realize Validon was agreeing with everything that came his way.  It looks more like this now:The difference is that I liked Serela's D1 but not BBM's.  1 bad vote doesn't make someone scum.

Bleh, this is such an off game for me.

HW saying BBM is town for pushing bad logic is...I don't know.  I mean, bad logic isn't scummy in itself but at the same time it's not a towntell.
Because we both know for balance reasons  that a suiciding-on-someone ITP wouldn't kill the target if it was scum but if it was just another townie then that reason would no longer exist.  So the way I see it you're either scum who won't die, town who will or town who won't.  So...I could argue that the fact that you're going along with it is scummy because as scum you would have nothing to fear.
I want to but my vote back on BBM but huh what's defense has made him an unpopular target...but screw it ##Vote: BBM for the same reason as before and that bad logic as a towntell is nothing but WIFOM.Waste of time to bring up=bad play=townie!
Paranoid speculation=townie!
Bad logic (flavor defense)=townie!  Also defending a townie liable to flip for towncred is a thing.  I don't trust this defense.  At all.
Just going to point this out, since it is a good point regardless: HW did not start voting me until after I expressed suspicion of him.  HW is more than skilled enough to make anyone look like scum.  He needs to survive to win and me making a case on him, at all, goes against that.  I'm not saying his entire vote on me is a huge disguised OMGUS, but it could very well have been part of his initial reasoning for voting me.
Oh and that defense I mentioned 2 paragraphs up?  Could be made up similarly for anyone in the game right now.  It was used to make me look bad, i.e. furthering his survival.

this is a bad post. if you werent mafia you would know why this is a bad post.

[I have no name]

this is a bad post. if you werent mafia you would know why this is a bad post.

This is bad logic.  If you knew why I kept getting lynched (hint: the answer is I don't have any idea why) you would know why it's bad logic.

shadoweh's vote was on scum, otherwise they wouldn't have blocked her again.

Well gee framing exists >_>
+by that logic you'd be saying Serela is scum and we already know that's not true.

[BigBangMeteor]

Shadoweh- I don't really know what to say other than that my play is normally 5x better in anonymous games regardless of my alignment. Also, as scum, I can make cases based off the stuff that people do that's scummy, while disregarding the smaller stuff that makes them town despite it. As town, I recognize those smaller things, state them, and then don't really bother analyzing the scummy stuff they do.

IHNN- as far as I can remember, you haven't stated anything bad about my D1. Your case on me boils down to me coasting on D2 and not offering enough opinions. So why didn't you like my D1? And that little blurb before you vote for me is bad because since this is a forum, you don't really have to take stuff back in the same sentence that way. Additionally, why do you care whether or not I'm a popular target if you think I'm scum? Isn't it your job then to convince other people of it? Your paragraph about Prims is also bad because you list a bunch of things he's done that, but then dismiss it as speculation. Why are you speculating if you're going to just dismiss it? It looks like trying to egg people's suspicions while not committing yourself. It's worse because you call me out in the same post for paranoid speculation.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

This is bad logic.  If you knew why I kept getting lynched (hint: the answer is I don't have any idea why) you would know why it's bad logic.

you don't get it

Well gee framing exists >_>

yeah which is why you can get away with voteblocking her, you don't want her vote counting toward lynching you but if anybody points it out you can dismiss it at WIFOM.

the fact that the voteblock came at this critical juncture shows scum doesn't want you lynched

Shadoweh- I don't really know what to say other than that my play is normally 5x better in anonymous games regardless of my alignment. Also, as scum, I can make cases based off the stuff that people do that's scummy, while disregarding the smaller stuff that makes them town despite it. As town, I recognize those smaller things, state them, and then don't really bother analyzing the scummy stuff they do.

yeah this is pretty much why i'm townreading bbm and i've played with him multiple times before so i can vouch for him

[I have no name]

Mentioning HW's defense was setting up for pointing out how weak it is.
I don't recall dismissing my speculation that HW tried lynching me because I suspected him, and looking at it I said that it was likely part of his initial reason.  I'm not inside HW's head so I don't know if that's true, but it's what I heavily suspect.

Also BBM, I mentioned how I didn't like your D1 was focusing on Affinity, and though mine focused on HW it's different since I replaced in and as such didn't have the entire day to take part in.

Isn't it your job then to convince other people of it?

Tried.  Doesn't seem to have worked.

yeah which is why you can get away with voteblocking her, you don't want her vote counting toward lynching you but if anybody points it out you can dismiss it at WIFOM.
the fact that the voteblock came at this critical juncture shows scum doesn't want you lynched

Or someone who thinks I'm town is voteblocking someone who was voting me to keep their townread alive, did you think of that?

yeah this is pretty much why i'm townreading bbm and i've played with him multiple times before so i can vouch for him

Meta.  Meta that you know I don't have, and that you know I'm not going to trust you on.

you don't get it

Then explain it, to help make me a better player.  Or do you like being untouchable?

[Raikaria]

guess im not quickhammering

##Vote: IHNN

shadoweh's vote was on scum, otherwise they wouldn't have blocked her again.

Except the 'blocking' happened between This Votecount and This votecount

Note IHNN has not posted during that time, or anywhere near either side of that time period [4 hours the latter end, and about 16 hours from the front end]. Now, while this is certainly not conclusive, it could easily be indicative of... you know... IHNN not even being around to do this voteblock?

===
WARNING: INCOMING THEORY: NONE OF THIS IS TO BE TAKEN AS FACT
===
People who posted between the two votecounts so certainly count be responsible for the voteblock:

Shadoweh
Bardiche
Affinity
Myself [I'd know if it was me!]
Validon98

People who posted close to one side only:
BBM [1st votecount]
Huh What [1st Votecount]

Note: Close is defined as about 2 hours

Now, activity isn't everything, but it could be an indicator. Timezones be timezones, after all.


Now, let's use what else we have avaliable, the D1 voteblocking. The two posts are This one and This one

Active between the votecounts:
Huh What
Validon98
Shadoweh
BBM
Serela
Schezo IHNN

Close to the end of the 2nd votecount [Again, using ~2 hours]
SilentShaman
BT

Affinity and me come online ~3 hours after. Worth mentioning, but I do not feel this is close enough, especially since it would fall before either of our first posts.

So, let's look at the two lists, and see who appears on both:

Shadoweh
Validon98
Huh What* [Not during the gap for the D2 block, but very close to it]

Waaait a second here. Didn't Validon do this earlier?

So you ARE limited in some way?

I highlighted this shortly afterwards because I wanted it sort of bookmarked in my posts to look up later, as I thought it may be important. Didn't Serela... kinda... die because of it?

Yeah. So active during both voteblocking periods, and drawing attention to Serela's slip.

I think we've found our voteblocker.

##Unvote
## Vote Validon98

I HAVE THREE CUTS ACROSS ME BUT I'M POSTING THIS NOW ANYWAY.

[Bardiche]

Screw it, I've reread Affinity's case on IHNN and Bard's post, and I can't believe I overlooked that. Bard, what's with the lack of info on IHNN, especially when you did end up reading the people you were going to? Bard and IHNN are right now seeming more fishy than usual, and though I'm still going to withhold my vote for now,

Except I've also had little info on Raikaria. Honestly, I don't need to waste a lot of words on IHNN if I'm not interested in lynching him.

But Bard, IHNN's reasoning is flimsy!
I consider most people's reasoning to be flimsy. In fact, this is why I also want Shadoweh to hang, since she's been coasting all day without really saying why I am scummy or why I'm suddenly no longer top scummy. Can anyone tell me why Shadoweh's voting IHNN, again?

In any case, I consider most people's reasoning to be flimsy. IHNN's updated himself on Huh What and has argued why the ED1 move of claiming PGO would benefit Huh What's agenda and why he thinks Huh What needs to die. He hasn't argued why Huh What is scummy, this much is true; On the other hand, Huh What claimed THird Party, do we really need to argue he's scum?

I similarly had one line on Raikaria and BT ends up a one-liner as well, for all that I responded to his attack on me. I don't understand why you're singling out my opinion on IHNN and pretend he's the only one I haven't written a full detailed write-up on. In fact, I only did write-ups on Affinity and BBM.

So your point, Bard?
Affinity is singling out something and pretending it is isolated. It is not isolated. If Affinity thinks I should be blamed for not disliking IHNN's content, then I think it's more of a case where I'm being voted for not sharing Affinity's opinion. That breaks my heart, but not everyone needs to agree with you there. Why should I think IHNN's "flimsy reasoning" is a crime worse than the flimsy reasoning Affinity is using to vote me? And why should I think it worse than the flimsy reasoning Shadoweh has been using all game?

The answer is that, in my opinion, it is not worse. I do not have any interest in an IHNN wagon. You can vote me for that all you like. If disagreeing with your assessment of someone's posts is a reason to mark me as scum, you can say I'm scum all game every game. Because I will never agree with everyone on all participating players.




Cut. Did Shadoweh get her vote stolen again.

[Raikaria]

Cut. Did Shadoweh get her vote stolen again.

Yes.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Note IHNN has not posted during that time, or anywhere near either side of that time period [4 hours the latter end, and about 16 hours from the front end]. Now, while this is certainly not conclusive, it could easily be indicative of... you know... IHNN not even being around to do this voteblock?

or he could've just been lurking without posting, or dormio could let scum schedule specific times for their day actions (that's what i'd do as a mod)

fun fact: the original voteblock vca popped up soon after schezo posted

either way, scum doesn't want ihnn lynched. think of it this way: ihnn has four voters, obvtown (bbm), me, shadoweh and validon. the rest of the game consists of derps (raikaria and validon), scum (ihnn and one of affinity/bard) and somebody not convinced ihnn is scum (the other one of affinity/bard)

voteblocking shadoweh makes it incredibly difficult to get momentum on the ihnn wagon going - validon is liable to change his opinion a lot (look at his recent unvote), raikaria is sticking his hands in his ears and being a conspiracy theorist instead of scumhunting, scum aren't voting ihnn, and the remaining player is looking elsewhere. so ihnn has 2-3 votes at most with 5 needed to lynch. suddenly it's more likely for town to just gather their votes on bbm or be crazy and lynch shadoweh instead of keeping the ihnn wagon moving, because all the interest has already been expended

of course if anybody tries to push this scum are just going to try to handwave it as "WIFOM!!!!", but that doesn't make it any less valid. sheep me on the ihnn wagon so we can lynch this maflord

ihnn is flailing at this point if he's seriously pushing that i'm only trying to get him lynched to be petty because he suspected me. that's not in my wincon as ITP. it's obvious i'm scumhunting to placate town so they have reason not to just lynch me today, and i think ihnn is scum. note that i thought this at the end of d1 when i was still trying to sound town, since i said i had a "secret scumread"

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

oh wait i completely forgot bt was a person who exists. he wasn't interested in lynching ihnn either though.

[Bardiche]

IHNN, when did you notice Shadoweh is voteblocked?

[Bardiche]

Huh What in what way has IHNN been furthering a scum agenda this game.

[I have no name]

IHNN, when did you notice Shadoweh is voteblocked?

On D1, before I was playing, I noticed it as soon as the votecount was posted.  I sent a message to Dormio about it assuming it was in error.
On D2, I noticed it when the votecount was posted again as I saw my wagon had decreased in volume without an unvote, and then looked closer and saw "8 people".

ihnn is flailing at this point if he's seriously pushing that i'm only trying to get him lynched to be petty because he suspected me. that's not in my wincon as ITP. it's obvious i'm scumhunting to placate town so they have reason not to just lynch me today, and i think ihnn is scum. note that i thought this at the end of d1 when i was still trying to sound town, since i said i had a "secret scumread"

I'm not privy to your role PM so idk what your wincon is.  Also your using the word "petty" is a blatant misrep as presumably you'd need to, you know, survive to be able to win and someone who suspected you would be considered a threat to your wincon.  Scumhunting to avoid being lynched and as such towards your wincon.  (don't say I'm being hypocritical since your play has been incredibly survival oriented and so it's not a stretch to say you need to survive+not BM game)

[Bardiche]

voteblocking shadoweh makes it incredibly difficult to get momentum on the ihnn wagon going - validon is liable to change his opinion a lot (look at his recent unvote), raikaria is sticking his hands in his ears and being a conspiracy theorist instead of scumhunting, scum aren't voting ihnn, and the remaining player is looking elsewhere. so ihnn has 2-3 votes at most with 5 needed to lynch. suddenly it's more likely for town to just gather their votes on bbm or be crazy and lynch shadoweh instead of keeping the ihnn wagon moving, because all the interest has already been expended

FWIW this is really getting to me in a "Maybe I have been blindsided" way and I am re-considering my stance on the IHNN wagon.

That is why it is important IHNN tells us when he noticed Shadoweh had been voteblocked. This is important.

Huh What I only need an explanation for Day 1 as I am now considering pushing a lynch on Huh What at this juncture furthers a scum agenda in that every day we are lynching Not Scum, Scum is benefiting. It's an easy stance to take even though even I have been saying HW will resolve itself overnight.


Cut by IHNN.

I noticed it when the votecount was posted again as I saw my wagon had decreased in volume without an unvote

Right after the votecount was posted?

[I have no name]

Cut by IHNN. Right after the votecount was posted?

When I saw the votecount so a bit before I made my post.  I'd say around 12:30 (i.e. 4 hours ago).
I was sleeping until around noon >_>

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

@bard: he's been playing to his wincon

seriously though, read this post, which has been the crux of my ihnn case the entire day (it wasn't the first time i brought that point up)

his play is scummy because he wasn't seriously interested in pushing his scum reads. he was making up shit that he was impartial to and otherwise just sliding by on the cases everybody else had already brought up (kay and affinity). he furthers the scum agenda passively rather than actively

(also ihnn's buddy could be the voteblocker instead of him, just throwing that out there)

[Bardiche]

... Why did you choose not to mention this until after HW called it to attention?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

"wasn't partial" rather than "was impartial" whatever

[I have no name]

seriously though, read this post, which has been the crux of my ihnn case the entire day (it wasn't the first time i brought that point up)

lol@crux of your case being based on me having college related things to do during that time period&using things I found scummy from your play throughout the game

... Why did you choose not to mention this until after HW called it to attention?

>_>
I'm not going to stop talking you know.

I thought Shadoweh herself had made it fairly clear, over 2 hours prior.  Perhaps not as much in hindsight, but the ">_>" stands out.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

if you had time to write a bunch of words about sheeping people on kay/affinity you could have easily redistributed that time to actually push your main scumread. at the very least you could have brought out bigger points than rvs nitpicks

[Bardiche]

I thought Shadoweh herself had made it fairly clear, over 2 hours prior.  Perhaps not as much in hindsight, but the ">_>" stands out.

##unvote
##Vote: IHNN

I can't believe you both
A) Recognise that you could be getting framed
B) Do not think it mention-worthy since Shadoweh raised it in an obscure way

I think a Townie would immediately panic because the implications of a vote on you disappearing are pretty obvious and clear. You disregarded its significance instead. Isn't the first thing any Townie would do in a similar situation... to explain why it isn't scummy? I don't think Scum!IHNN would've blocked due to how horribly obvious it is, but I can imagine Scum!IHNN hoping it'll be swept under the rug when his scumbuddy done goofed.

[Bardiche]

Also I'm p. much sold by Huh What explaining how the voteblock is tactical and removes momentum on the IHNN wagon unless BT, Affinity and/or I took sudden interest in it.

[BT]

Sorry folks, I was completely out of it today. New tohos is only half the reason. I'll try reading through the recent pages with emphasis on noname, or Affinity if he's still going strong (stop me now otherwise).

I wanted to say some things RE: people saying Bard is town and wrong but that'll probably happen by itself with the reread anyway.

[Bardiche]

Also Bard changing opinion scum of the year