DEFCON Mafia (Night 2, DEFCON 2)

[Serela]

also if I was the sk I'd be pretty motivated to make a big fancy plan that favors me winning and watch everyone else flail awkwardly when it inevitably goes weird

failsafe is a pretty good role pick for SK because mafia don't really want to nk it if they're not positive they won't get targetted, and you won't get nuked, and if you DO die in a not-lynch manner you take another person down with you which is good for Everyone Dies win condition

[BT]

Define following, I hadn't intended to be in it when I was reading so I didn't have anything noted or much memory of earlier stuff. So yeah, I'd been reading it, still had to go back through everything though, which is harder than I expected.

I was basically wondering if you had established any opinions before joining.

Not sure I follow.

What I was confused about here is clear to me now since you think blocking the eav. is possible. It doesn't really make sense to me but that's another topic I guess.

Saying that I lean scum because someone else might have said some stuff about me is weak. So far the cases on me have boiled down to 'Shadoweh is confusing I will continue to stare accusingly at her' and then blossomed into rage votes when I call people out on their shit. Dormio is the only one with a legit case on me, but if you were really reading his case I would expect you to use actual words he said.

No duh it is, I said so myself. Just because I didn't add anything / repeat things doesn't mean you get to accuse me of not reading, though.

His post was really awesome? The fact that people keep trying to make it sound bad is half of why I think people are being scummy around him. We have a good solid townread. Stop being so BUT WHAT IF HE WROTE MULTIPLE PARAGRAPHS AS SCUM?!?!

But I didn't make it sound bad. I only said that I'm not getting anything too special about his first post (addressed to people who ARE getting something from it) but I'm feeling okay about him anyway. In fact I do think he's town now after reading the Zak case. Reads like classic "guys I found a scum conspiracy" newbtown. (About that: The nature of Zak's "Serela towntell" is what made me paranoid about him overnight -- I don't think he responded to me yet about that. I think starting to talk about faking messages in the scum QT is a bit too far off, though.)

What do you actually think about me, Shadoweh? I can't tell if you're trying to paint me as scum in these posts or you're just being you.

[Serela quotes]

No, definitely not scum together. Serela is clearly using what Zak's overheard as happy reasons to clear himself, which he wouldn't be able to stomach as scum. Seriously he's not capable of it. If anything this makes Serela sound way too chipper which is a scumtell for him. Would still not lynch Zak, would definitely lynch Serela first.

If anything the thing that sticks out in those quotes is Serela going "oh yeah that airlines thing explains everything, Zakky can't be scum" after eyeing him for read dissonance. Especially considering I'm not even the only one that feels/felt funny about Zak's clear (Massaca).

No idea how you're deriving that but okay.

You basically said "I want to vote Raikaria/NNR but nah" and I don't see another reason for that.

Also a NekoRex never forgets the treacheries of Huhwhat. But maybe I'll ignore it for now if Massaca switches to Shadoweh, The Right Choice

How are you reading Masacca? Just Masacca?

Failsafe BAD

##Vote Massaca

Rank your lynch preferences. This tells nothing.

[WHMZakeri]

Conqueror's browser needs to crash more often.

I agree with BT about Massa's case on me. It's kind of dumb, but it's also really town-sourced.
I personally don't believe the role picking conspiracy because 1. It depends on Massa/HW being scum (which I don't believe), and 2. It requires scum to take initiative in the very early parts of the game, which isn't likely to happen in my experience. (Or maybe that's just me).

Also, Serela, that's really bad logic. There's no reason to lynch the failsafe unless we're certain it's scum. Even if it was the result of scum crossfire, I think it'd be more likely to see scum flipping in the result.
...of course, I probably shouldn't be saying this with the case hanging over my head, though.

Also Majority reasoning in the same post is flawed, for much worse reasons. People aren't going to attempt to nuke the person that everyone agrees is scum. They're going to nuke the person THEY KNOW IS SCUM BUT NOBODY IS LISTENING TO ME, WAHH. The fact that half the players are going to get the chance to ignore majority rule doesn't mean the town should give up on trying to convince each other of their scumspects.

[Conqueror]

ActionDan has gone afk. Will replace/modkill him if he doesn't post before his 48 hours are up.

Day 2, DEFCON 2

Votecount of Votecounts
Serela (1): BT
NekoNekoRex (1): Shadoweh
Raikaria (1): rawr
Shadoweh (2): Dormio, NekoNekoRex
Massaca (2): PX, Serela
Zakeri (1): Massaca
PX (2): Zakeri, Raikaria

Not Voting (1): ActionDan

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
Deadline is in 1 day and 9.5 hours.

[ActionDan]

yawn

[ActionDan]

##Vote Serela

I don't remember HW/Masssssssasssca being in her voting options.  Vote on that wagon is sus.

[Dr Rawr]

It depends on Massa/HW being scum (which I don't believe)

It also could have been very lucky of you if you were scum :V. But yea you selecting eavesdrop I cant really see as being scummy since huhwhat selected it for you. Though massaca is right it really is an easy roll for scum to sit on like failsafe.

@serela or you know we could lynch scum today and lynch massaca if we decide hes scum tomorrow also? im dont think theres enough nukes for the game to end tomorrow

[Raikaria]

OK, if me and ActionDan are alive and there are nukes, I'm nuking him instanty.

Serela, can you give opinions other than 'We should lynch the failsafe' to lynch the failsafe? The failsafe is giving pretty much the whole town a town feeling, so suggesting to lynch what amounts to a townie immune to mafia attempts to nuke them seems foolish.

Because right now that suggestion is making me regret lynching IHNN over you. [Still want PX lynched more, and ActionDan but I'm going to make him die a painful radioactive death.]

[Shadoweh]

Massaca's opinion of me doesn't have much to do with his own towniness. I think Dormio is town too and he hasn't stopped lazily voting me all day.
BT: I think you're null. You're the only PR left and I'd prefer to leave you so no one blocks my nuclear fusion tomorrow because I'm sure NNR and Raikaria want to stop me from murdering them.

##Vote: Serela That is the most terrible reason to vote Massaca since ever? Serela, who are your scumreads and why? These waffles are starting to taste suspiciously like bullshit.

Rai: Nukes are 48 hours :V If you try to nuke Dan it will only give more reason to destroy you since Dan is the one immune to nightkills.

[Shadoweh]

But I didn't make it sound bad. I only said that I'm not getting anything too special about his first post (addressed to people who ARE getting something from it) but I'm feeling okay about him anyway. In fact I do think he's town now after reading the Zak case. Reads like classic "guys I found a scum conspiracy" newbtown.

I'd say that dead on towntell is special though, wouldn't you? It's the kind of thing you can't fake. I wasn't -as- upset with you as the people I'm threatening with nuclear death.

If anything the thing that sticks out in those quotes is Serela going "oh yeah that airlines thing explains everything, Zakky can't be scum" after eyeing him for read dissonance. Especially considering I'm not even the only one that feels/felt funny about Zak's clear (Massaca).

That's what I meant. Zak's reaction is more trying to break the game. Serela's reaction was I'M SO GLAD I CAN TRUST YOU ZAKKY-CHAAAAAN!

[Shadoweh]

Oh, and if anyone who isn't NekoNekoRex is interested in something Neko asked me they can go ahead and point it out, I don't feel like arguing with scum directly any longer.

[Raikaria]

Rai: Nukes are 48 hours :V If you try to nuke Dan it will only give more reason to destroy you since Dan is the one immune to nightkills.

Seriously?

How would you even know this? He could be fakeclaiming, I mean, if you were immune to nightkills, you don't say it out loud, you keep it to yourself so you get fail nightkilled. If you wave your hands around saying 'Hey guys I'm immune to nightkills!' the scum just ignore you.

That and he could still be mafia who stole that role.

Also: What in particular makes you so convinced I am still scum?

And I'm far from the only one thinking nukes are tomorrow :L

[Shadoweh]

No, I mean you can't instantly nuke someone because it takes 48 hours for it to reach someone.

Either he's immune to nightkills or one of the scum stole it? I know that's his role because that's what the plan said to grab. You know, the one you didn't follow because it was stupid until you claimed that of course you followed the plan? <-- related to your question at the end.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

You basically said "I want to vote Raikaria/NNR but nah" and I don't see another reason for that.

I dunno. I'd consider the fact that I actually voted Shadoweh over them to be pretty indicative of me preferring her lynch.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Also Serela are you going to break my heart and turn out to be scum?

Because that reason for wanting to lynch Massaca sounds pretty hilarious, as other people have mentioned.

[Conqueror]

Massaca has been prodded.

[Massaca]

Dammit Conq., lolz. Wanted to get right through with no prods  :V

Yeah, yeah, I know long posts, yadda yadda blah.

Because we're going to get to nuke a bunch of the people we don't like tomorrow without having to decide with a majority. As far as I can see, anyone who a majority can agree needs to get lynched would probably get nuked tomorrow anyway.

Still think that this is a bad idea in general and don't like everyone going "NUKES AHOY". Helps the SK more than anyone else. Assuming silo's aren't SK'd there are potentially (from my count) 6 nukes going off tomorrow. That's bad. Especially since there'll be 8 or 9 players.

Instead, how about we lynch the failsafe that can't be nuked?

I can be nuked. Just that a nuke auto launches back. I'll still die if the person doesn't abort their nuke.

Actually getting to d4 would be nice for town, and we do NOT have the ability to take it for granted that we'll make it that far. That slot is the most likely to get passed over in favor of other lynches in the future since it could be our last town-powered lynch (and especially so with the main killing force soon, nukes, due to failsafe),

So don't nuke people then. This is going to all of you BTW. You'll get a few more days and "town controlled lynches" if you all DON'T NUKE DAMMIT.

It's actually in the SK's favor to nightkill the failsafe because an extra person will die.

Except for the fact that I'm not obligated to use my nuke.

I think with the lynch+nukes we can clean up the really scummy people d3 regardless, and then hopefully have gotten enough scum (or even the SK) that we can make D4 without being completely screwed. It's actually in the SK's favor to nightkill the failsafe because an extra person will die.

It's actually in the SK's favour for nukes to be going off everywhere.
You can make day 4 if you don't nuke everyone.
Also, you want a heap of nukes flying out and are hoping you get some scum?

Let me point this out again. 6 nuke capable players. If I survive lynch I'm almost certainly dead in the night (SK would want me dead sooner rather than later so that my nuke has less chance of hitting said SK) which is potentially 7 nukes should I decide to launch (dependent on who is lynched and what they flip). 8 or 9 players alive tomorrow.
That's great for town. So Serela, Shadoweh, Raikaria, DON"T DAMN WELL NUKE. Also Raikaria, you've outed yourself as not doc too. Well done.

failsafe is a pretty good role pick for SK because mafia don't really want to nk it if they're not positive they won't get targetted, and you won't get nuked, and if you DO die in a not-lynch manner you take another person down with you which is good for Everyone Dies win condition

Again, no. Best for SK if failsafe is on Town so once SK knows who failsafe is he can nightkill it and get his free nuke going off without having to die in the night which is less likely. SK wants Sub. Just like mafia. Then he can stealth nuke. If he's called out by the rolecop he can just nuke normally. And with the way things have been going it feels like people would relate that to being town.

But maybe I'll ignore it for now if Massaca switches to Shadoweh, The Right Choice

I'm switching to neither you nor Shadoweh yet.
And now you're both doing almost the same thing v_v

No, definitely not scum together. Serela is clearly using what Zak's overheard as happy reasons to clear himself, which he wouldn't be able to stomach as scum. Seriously he's not capable of it. If anything this makes Serela sound way too chipper which is a scumtell for him. Would still not lynch Zak, would definitely lynch Serela first.

So you'd believe town Zakeri, scum Serela then? You don't think someone who you play Mafia with all the time might change up his game once in a while to throw people off?
Doesn't that imply Serela was smart enough to fake that in advance where people thought "nah, he probably couldn't"? (IIRC)
(meta stuff, so buggered if I know)

Either he's immune to nightkills or one of the scum stole it? I know that's his role because that's what the plan said to grab. You know, the one you didn't follow because it was stupid until you claimed that of course you followed the plan? <-- related to your question at the end.

I know if I were him I wouldn't have taken Bulletproof since he's done a good job of not being an NK target anyway along with the fact that he's painted as the BulletProof which scum shouldn't care for too much.

Anyway, yes this. Still interested so I'll requote it.

On the matter of IHNN; I don't really understand what is going on for the reasons, because I don't understand the whole HW plan that seems core to the reasoning for the votes and arguments.  So I fail to understand what is *so* bad about what he is saying. We're assuming people even followed any plan. I sure didn't.

Raikaria, unless it doesn't conflict with #70, you need to claim your picks / role. I don't think we're going to be able to assume anything about the setup without it.

[...]

I am a Doc/Silo.

So you claim you didn't follow the plan but... you did?

And add:

Why would I claim if I am the Doc or not? Do you seriously think it's a good idea to out the Doc D1? I didn't even claim if I'm Offensive Silo or Defensive [I explicitly avoided saying Vig]

OK, if me and ActionDan are alive and there are nukes, I'm nuking him instanty.

Purely for curiosity, why do you suddenly feel it's an ok idea to further reduce the potential doc pool right before what might be the only night that the doc may be useful?



MOTHERF*****, I KEEP TYPING TWON EVERY F***ING TIME!
Just needed to bitch about that, it's getting annoying >_>

[Massaca]

Conqueror's browser needs to crash more often.

[Shadoweh]

So Serela, Shadoweh, Raikaria, DON"T DAMN WELL NUKE. Also Raikaria, you've outed yourself as not doc too. Well done.

This relates to the question of whether vigs are pro-town or not. Here's the scoop though: I am a town-controlled lynch. Mainly, I am town, and my nuke is controlled by me, so I know 100% that Town wants whoever I aim at dead. The thing you're missing out on is that every lynch is going to be followed by two non-town controlled nightkills, so not shooting someone means that I am literally letting the scum shoot more instead. Nukes are better then letting people who do not want the town to win fire.

Also I don't think the SK will kill you and instead will hope that one of the nukes suicides on you.

So you'd believe town Zakeri, scum Serela then? You don't think someone who you play Mafia with all the time might change up his game once in a while to throw people off?

Yes, that is what I said in my post. And no, I believe 100% that Serela will never change and this is why we love him.

Doesn't that imply Serela was smart enough to fake that in advance where people thought "nah, he probably couldn't"? (IIRC) (meta stuff, so buggered if I know)

Serela, maybe, but he does also have two partners that could have thought of it for him. There is the off-chance he's the SK and wanted a happy clear.

Also as Massaca pointed out to you Raikaria, you're still ignoring his very important question. It relates to why you need a nuke in the face.

[Massaca]

This relates to the question of whether vigs are pro-town or not. Here's the scoop though: I am a town-controlled lynch. Mainly, I am town, and my nuke is controlled by me, so I know 100% that Town wants whoever I aim at dead. The thing you're missing out on is that every lynch is going to be followed by two non-town controlled nightkills, so not shooting someone means that I am literally letting the scum shoot more instead. Nukes are better then letting people who do not want the town to win fire.

Hmm, you're right and I hadn't considered that. Can totally see that being used against me now, heh.
That many nukes still bothers me though :ohdear:


Oh, and ##Unvote
Satisfied for now.

[PX]

##Vote Serela

I don't remember HW/Masssssssasssca being in her voting options.  Vote on that wagon is sus.

10/10 sheep

##Unvote
##Vote Serela

[Serela]

maybe I should have just gotten prodded instead of trying to make a post this morning. I'unno, even townreading the slot doesn't mean it can't be SK, and HW is scary :C I liked parts of PX's case on HW.

Re:Me/Zak stuff, didn't I point out why Zak's clear was silly -myself-? Anyway, I had a town read on Zak -before- the weird read stuff. The only thing I thought was off was him jumping around with thinking I'm town and then voting me right away, which got explained later by that, so I went back to having the town read I already had.

Trying to think of things to say while being really sleepy and I'm cut by more votes on me, maybe I should elaborate on my thought process with voting Massaca. Like, I said before I almost voted HW after PX's case on him. It was good! (Wow, I'm sheeping PX, I didn't think that would happen. Do you remember So You Want To Be The Townest when I didn't sheep PX? :C) And I'm really, extremely bad at reading HW, because it's HW. It's almost like someone I should policy vig just because ~*~he might be scum no matter what I read~*~. It doesn't help that there's an sk. Wouldn't an sk read just like a townie?! Oh god how do you even hunt that stuff.

I want to lynch Massaca because Oh God HW and because if we don't now I think it's going to be too "we have to lynch this person I really really think is scum, not the weird-but-kind-of-town-guy!" except the former is going to be someone I don't really think is scum and then I'll cry because I don't want to nuke the failsafe and die a horrible nuclear death.

Also, Massaca, we're nuking the shit out of stuff tomorrow without doubt `-` If we really have 6 town nukes that's fabulous, because not having d4 is okay if it's just because we nuked ALMOST EVERYONE.

Also, sub is confirmed to be on scum or SK since I don't have it and it was my first choice, according to my understanding of the rules and assumption that town followed the plan, which so far seems pretty true. Just to put that out there, so there is indeed a third non-town controlled kill and there's no reason it's not going to get used.

As far as numbers go, if there are no doc protects or crosskills and the sk isn't dead by n3, EVEN IF NO TOWNIES NUKE, there will only be 4 people alive d4 (At least 2 will probably not be town, too). Better to nuke the hell out of the game d3 unless the amount of non-town killing roles goes down first.

Oh right, people I want to lynch who aren't Hw's slot. Dan doesn't even exist anymore... again, so not really interested and he'll probably just get nuked tomorrow if he isn't modkilled. I guess I wouldn't be -that- disappointed if PX was lynched. Rawr is a pile of useless (Like seriously, holy shit, on D2 he just kind of justified an eh raikaria vote and made tiny blips later to not get prodded, not to mention existing even -less- d1) and now that I think about it he's totally cool to get lynched the heck out of. And uh, everyone else looks like not-scum. Maybe Shadoweh? Maybe. If there -still- was another scum after all that I'd say Raikaria, but he's done a lot of stuff that looks town too.

Hell if I know who the sk is if it isn't any of those people.

Anyway, while I'd rather lynch Massaca then anyone else today, I have a feeling `-` that he isn't `-` going to be lynched `------`
So
##unvote
##vote rawr
like, if you actually pay any attention to rawr (who is incredibly forgettable this game) it should be obvious why he looks horribly lurk-scum

Rawr does superlurker!scum a LOT when he rolls scum, for that matter, as far as I can remember >_>

[Serela]

I forgot to put nnr in my list of people except I've still been to lazy to actually read him

[Serela]

I guess at this point I may as well just wait for nnr to get nuked so I don't have to worry about it :getdown:

[Massaca]

If we really have 6 town nukes that's fabulous, because not having d4 is okay if it's just because we nuked ALMOST EVERYONE.

Why do you think they're all town?

[Serela]

A couple townies reported stolen roles, including my own, and BT got roleblocked. RB/Sub accounts for 2 of the 4 non-town members and then shadoweh didn't get cop supposedly and I vaguely remember the tracker not getting their role or something.

Non-town likely only have sub in terms of killing roles. Even if they had one more, it doesn't matter much. It is completely justified to nuke the shit out of stuff d3, so. Not much point in rolespec.

[PX]

Eh, Serela's fine. Can we just like, lynch Rawr?

##Unvote
##Vote: Rawr

[Serela]

See, this is a reasonable course of action. I can see no reason not to lynch rawr.

[Massaca]

So now we want to lynch one of the two remaining "assumed" docs?
PX, why would you want that to happen?

[Serela]

Because Rawr is scummy as hell?

That's more important then "oh god he might be a doc!"