Spell Card Help Topic VI: How do I used Bomb?

[Mr Jovial]

Any general tips for a regular lunatic 1cc of PoDD with Marisa? Can't figure out how I should be using the gauge effectively. Also can't figure out how boss attacks sometimes start but when I look at the opponent's  gauge its significantly above the quarter mark as if that boss attack didn't cost anything.

Should mention that by general tips I mean stuff like "cancel boss attacks with bombs/your own boss attack".

EDIT: Realised I should probably learn how to do the boss attacks and omg, they're all very impossible. Also none of Reimu's attacks make any sense. Help D;

[Rei Scarlette]

If you asked me a couple days ago, I would say there's no strategy beyond sitting there, getting lucky, dodging and taking the photos as quickly as possible.  However, I recently discovered that waiting until the first wave of bullets hits the bottom left corner (the light blues) to take the first shot, then taking the second ASAP results in a much more favorable spawn of the red wave, with regards to what it overlaps.  You could stall the 2nd shot, but stalling the first shot slightly is easier.

I took about 200 shots with Aya and cleared it 5 times, found the strat, took another 200 shots and cleared it 10 more times.  The outliers on shot count between clears?  84 without the strat, 51 with it.  The low end for each is 11 without, 4 with (though right after the 4 I got it 7 shots later).

I see, so it is mostly just dodging after all, but I had no idea you could manipulate the waves this way. I had always figured they would start at a relative position to the other waves to keep the general pattern going, but apparently that isn't the case. I definitely see the difference it makes already, thanks alot for sharing this discovery. Still pretty difficult, but I should be able to manage a clear now that could be called more than just plain luck.

[Zil]

Any general tips for a regular lunatic 1cc of PoDD with Marisa? Can't figure out how I should be using the gauge effectively. Also can't figure out how boss attacks sometimes start but when I look at the opponent's  gauge its significantly above the quarter mark as if that boss attack didn't cost anything.

Should mention that by general tips I mean stuff like "cancel boss attacks with bombs/your own boss attack".

EDIT: Realised I should probably learn how to do the boss attacks and omg, they're all very impossible. Also none of Reimu's attacks make any sense. Help D;

Ah, PoDD Lunatic is no easy task, but I encourage you to go for it!

Let's see. Boss attacks can be triggered by the "spell points" (that number in the upper left). Spell points come from reflecting things (i.e. catching them in combos by blowing up enemies), particularly fireballs, and they tend to reset very quickly if you stop increasing them. That basically just means a free boss attack is triggered any time you reflect a ton of crap all at once. For the most part, you need about 50k spell points for a boss attack, 100k to repel an enemy boss attack, and 300k for a boss panic (boss with level 3 spell thrown in). There are some oddities in how it works but I won't go into that now.

The only thing you should really be doing with your gauge is casting level 4 spells to repel enemy bosses. And use charge attacks a lot. But don't cast level 2 or 3 spells and don't use level 4 when the enemy's boss isn't already there. Also, once you've run out of bombs, stop using level 4's as well, since then if your gauge is full and you press X, you become invincible for a while and shoot a powerful laser. That depletes the whole gauge when it finishes, but with Marisa it's more than strong enough to kill even two consecutive boss attacks.

About Reimu, her spell is part static, part aimed at you. Try to stand still while it's firing and then shift into a safespot. You might find it a bit easier to dodge it near the corners. All of her boss patterns are static except the one with the big yin-yang orbs, so try to learn them. Macrododge the giant walls. Notice that the lighter spread attack always shoot one bullet straight down, so follow the boss's movement. For the pellet spiral thing, you should probably go to the far corner and tap through the waves one by one. Also, when bosses appear, they always follow the same movement pattern. A kind of counterclockwise diamond, then a clockwise one. (I think. Maybe the second can change but the first is always counterclockwise.) Try to predict where they'll go to hit them with charge attacks more easily. This also makes some attacks exactly the same every time as long as it's the first thing they used. Very useful for Reimu in particular, but also others as well, like Ellen's pellet attack.

Edit: General tips... If you want to be bored to tears, maybe look at this crap:
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14197.msg948307.html#msg948307
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14197.msg946510.html#msg946510
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14197.msg947230.html#msg947230

[Mr Jovial]

All hail Overlord Zil, who gave me a wall 4 walls of text to answer a question!

Only real question I have now is: where is the hitbox on Marisa's sprite? I heard in MS it's at the bottom of her hair but I have no way of telling whether PoDD and MS use the same sprites :<
Also please tell me if there's a way to restart without suiciding or reopening the emulator. It's so tedious  :qq:

EDIT: Decided to count how many words those 4 messages were. 4001 words, Zil. 4001.

[Seppo Hovi]

Zil you should write PoDD fanfiction.

-

To answer the question, I think at least one of the PC-98 emulators was able to set savestates, so you could set a load at the start of the first stage and reload it whenever you restart. I don't know if doing that takes more time than manually resetting the emulator, though.

[Zil]

Esc+q returns you to the title screen. Putting a savestate there would also work. I'd replace the savestate whenever you get a new score on your scoreboard.

About the hitbox, I'd guess that it's around this spot:



It's not like I really know for sure or anything. Just play and you get a feel for it.

Fanfiction will happen. Someday. When I learn to write maybe.

[Kimidori]

didn't saw this thread... anyway.

please tell me how to survive kanako last spell card on normal, that the only thing stop me from 1cc MoF now. ;_;

[CyberAngel]

It's pure reading and dodging, no tricks behind it. The only thing that can help is that amulet hitboxes aren't too big, and you can dodge through them if you have to (don't rely on it, though). Overall, it just needs raw skill.

...But if you don't have enough resources to just tank through it by the time you get there, it seems you have enough problems in the rest of the game you need to address and get better at.

[Kimidori]

I can normally get to that spell card with 4 lives left... and watch they go 1 by 1.

[Zil]

It's pure reading and dodging, no tricks behind it.

So you may think!

It's actually static, in a sense. Every wave is the same, but they are rotated randomly. Familiarize yourself with the overall pattern and it becomes a cakewalk. This is true on the higher difficulties as well, but since the waves overlap with each other, you get effectively "random" situations.

[Szayelaporro Granz]

please tell me how to survive kanako last spell card on normal, that the only thing stop me from 1cc MoF now. ;_;

Off-topic, but I've ever been in the same situation as yours. I remember when I 1cc'd MoF on normal for the first time, my heart beat so fast during the last spell that I need to pause the game before I got a heart attack XD Funny thing is that the easy version is harder than the normal one, go figure :derp:

But anyway, as C.Angel stated, this spellcard is just pure reading and dodging. Although like Zil said, I actually noticed some static pattern in it. Good luck :/

[MTSranger]

I need help with patchouli's spellcards (EX) in EoSD and Flandre's Cranberry Trap because I'm using ReimuA and her stupid homing amulets target the familiars instead of targeting Flandre, so it takes much more time to end the spellcard. Any tips?

Royal Flare can be safespotted by Marisa A and semi-safespotted by every other character.
You sit in the spot and tap down at the right time and sit until the end.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6504.msg392132.html#msg392132

[Shio Yamote]

I need help in PCB phantasm stage, specially Ran's nonspell, Sinister Spirits "Double Black Death Butterfly'' and "Boundary of Humans and Youkai" (I can dodge Ran's version very easily but I always get raped in yukari's version). Oh, and also in Bounded Field "Curse of Dreams and Reality", I do what everyone says I should do, start from the right and tap left when the blue bullets gets near me, but I always get hit by the green ones. Am I doing something wrong or I'm just unlucky?

[Rei Scarlette]

Edit: Disregard, I didn't notice it in the stickied topic before because I apparently spelled it wrong when I used Ctrl-F. I'll see if I can do it any better after seeing that.

[Mr Jovial]

I need help in PCB phantasm stage, specially Ran's nonspell, Sinister Spirits "Double Black Death Butterfly'' and "Boundary of Humans and Youkai" (I can dodge Ran's version very easily but I always get raped in yukari's version). Oh, and also in Bounded Field "Curse of Dreams and Reality", I do what everyone says I should do, start from the right and tap left when the blue bullets gets near me, but I always get hit by the green ones. Am I doing something wrong or I'm just unlucky?

• Ran's nonspell is very slow sidestepping. Both of the attacks in that nonspell are aimed which can make it very easy depending on how little you can move in a single tap for the red petal bullet things.
• Double Black Death Butterfly (DBDB) is quite mean when it wants to be and it almost always wants to be mean. If you're just trying to clear the stage, try timing your bombs so you take out the bullets that just spawned and you'll have a window to do some damage to Yukari. If you're trying to capture it, you need to stay away from the bottom of the screen for hopefully obvious reasons and dodge the best that you can. You may want to practice dodging bullets from behind on something easier to get to. The first part of Hourai Elixir can be great practice for dodging bullets from cardinal directions.
• Boundary of Humans and Youkai is easy until the cage starts to close in around you at the end. Apparently the path it takes depends on where you are when it starts to move so you should try to stay in the same general area (eg top right of the cage) as it spawns. You need good knowledge of the hitbox of the cage walls too, they're quite generous and you can sometimes get between the blue bullets and the cage walls to make the next set of dodges easier (refer to 11:00 of the replay I linked for an example). For the end, you also need to know the butterfly hitboxes well since you need to not panic if you're going for a capture but I'd suggest bombing it for safety if you're not.
• Curse of Dreams and Reality. Sounds like you're just moving too much. Try moving less would be my suggestion but that assumes the problem is you're moving too fast. Ignore this if you think that isn't the problem.

Here's a video, not a perfect of the stage but it explains why DBDB is awful. Be warned, I thought the music volume was a little loud.

NOTE: Based on what you're struggling with I can't figure out what kind of level of skill you're at. Sounds like you were struggling to 1cc IN (on either hard or lunatic, no idea which) but could almost time out SFN. I'm assuming you're trying to clear so some advice might not apply if you're going for the perfect

[Shio Yamote]

• Ran's nonspell is very slow sidestepping. Both of the attacks in that nonspell are aimed which can make it very easy depending on how little you can move in a single tap for the red petal bullet things.
• Double Black Death Butterfly (DBDB) is quite mean when it wants to be and it almost always wants to be mean. If you're just trying to clear the stage, try timing your bombs so you take out the bullets that just spawned and you'll have a window to do some damage to Yukari. If you're trying to capture it, you need to stay away from the bottom of the screen for hopefully obvious reasons and dodge the best that you can. You may want to practice dodging bullets from behind on something easier to get to. The first part of Hourai Elixir can be great practice for dodging bullets from cardinal directions.
• Boundary of Humans and Youkai is easy until the cage starts to close in around you at the end. Apparently the path it takes depends on where you are when it starts to move so you should try to stay in the same general area (eg top right of the cage) as it spawns. You need good knowledge of the hitbox of the cage walls too, they're quite generous and you can sometimes get between the blue bullets and the cage walls to make the next set of dodges easier (refer to 11:00 of the replay I linked for an example). For the end, you also need to know the butterfly hitboxes well since you need to not panic if you're going for a capture but I'd suggest bombing it for safety if you're not.
• Curse of Dreams and Reality. Sounds like you're just moving too much. Try moving less would be my suggestion but that assumes the problem is you're moving too fast. Ignore this if you think that isn't the problem.

Here's a video, not a perfect of the stage but it explains why DBDB is awful. Be warned, I thought the music volume was a little loud.

NOTE: Based on what you're struggling with I can't figure out what kind of level of skill you're at. Sounds like you were struggling to 1cc IN (on either hard or lunatic, no idea which) but could almost time out SFN. I'm assuming you're trying to clear so some advice might not apply if you're going for the perfect

Thanks for the help. I'm a 2 month player so I don't care about perfection.  My level of skill I just dunno. The only extras I cleared until now was IN and PCB. Now I'm struggling to beat Yukari and Koishi.

[Rei]

Hi everyone, first time poster here,
I need help with Kagerou's midboss spell on lunatic. Do I suppose to misdirect it or something?
Also, Yatsuhashi's 2nd card on hard/lunatic.
Thanks.

[Karisa]

• Boundary of Humans and Youkai is easy until the cage starts to close in around you at the end. Apparently the path it takes depends on where you are when it starts to move so you should try to stay in the same general area (eg top right of the cage) as it spawns. You need good knowledge of the hitbox of the cage walls too, they're quite generous and you can sometimes get between the blue bullets and the cage walls to make the next set of dodges easier (refer to 11:00 of the replay I linked for an example). For the end, you also need to know the butterfly hitboxes well since you need to not panic if you're going for a capture but I'd suggest bombing it for safety if you're not.

I thought the "cage" (as you call it) movement in that spell was static?

[Zil]

Ran's version at least seems to go either left or right depending on which side you're on.

[Mr Jovial]

Looked at a few replays on youtube (about 6 or 7) and they all stay on the right and all get the ring cage thing to go to the right. Jaimers' video stated it initially either goes left or right depending on which side you start on. I'd go and check for myself by seeing where it goes if you stay on the left but I'm too tired and Necrofantasia is awful if you have a headache :< I only said that was how it worked because other people said so, please don't hurt me ;-;

[Ghost]

You can definitely make their timeouts go left or right, but since everyone does it to the right it's probably easier to conform and copy their routes xD.

For double death butterfly, if you're just going for the clear, bombing the wave of knives should work

[Zil]

Hmm, I've always gone left. ;_;

Isn't there some silly trick for DBDB where if you get a border from the previous cancel, you can just sit right in front of her and pass through a wave right as the border ends?

[Ghost]

I'd never seen that before, but after trying it, yea if you get border as the spell card starts, then you can sit at Yukari's feet as the border ends/she shoots out knives and the invincibility will tank that.

[Mesarthim]

You know I've done Ran and Yukari's timeouts like a hundred times and I had no idea you could choose the direction it goes. Doesn't really matter to me as I can adapt no matter which way it goes. The end is really the only part that can get me if I'm not careful.

Definitely have to work a little faster on Yukari's timeout but I have the perfect method! And I can't say it because I suck at descriptions.

[Rei]

Hi everyone, first time poster here,
I need help with Kagerou's midboss spell on lunatic. Do I suppose to misdirect it or something?
Also, Yatsuhashi's 2nd card on hard/lunatic.
Thanks.

So, can anyone help me with this?

[Mr Jovial]

Are there any gimmicks to Kotohime's boss attacks? Namely the ones which involve omnidirectional red shots which start out with the bombs spinning around her. These attacks feel so common and I'm so bad at them :<

Also Rei, those are very difficult attacks and I think most would just bomb them. I looked at a few replays (Jaimers' replays ) and found that he misdirects Kagerou's attack to the left and right sides of the screen, which is useless if you play as a B shot type (I'm assuming you are) because you spend such little time below the boss. Yatsuhashi's second is also a giant pain. It's a fixed pattern that changes based on how Yatsuhashi moves so there's no real tactic other than dodge as best as you can. But seriously. Bomb these if you can.

[Sakurei]

the spinning orb attacks for kotohime are hurr, they get me every time as well. you can differentiate between them though (before they're shot). if the orbs are far away from kotohime, she'll use that fast static attack (yes, it's static). if they're close to her, she'll use the slower and denser attack. that one isn't attack to my knowledge. but remember that the orbs orbiting around her don't hurt you, so you can still shotgun her if you wish to. I find the slow and dense attack pretty hard to dodge, but once you figured out where the fast are in the static one, you shouldn't get hit by it.

[Shio Yamote]

I'm getting raped by Flandre's ''Maze of Love''. Any tips?

[KuroArashi100]

For Reimu, it is possible to stay at the bottom and dodge through the waves. There is a slightly wider gap in every wave if I remember correctly, and I usually dodge through those.
The other and probably "legit" way of beating it involves moving around Flandre and letting the gaps pass you by. Try to keep the same distance from her.

I'm sorry for not helping much, but I hope this helps a little at least.


And now for a question of my own:
During Yuugi's second nonspell on hard, I can usually dodge the blue lasers, unless I get trapped in the wrong "box" of red lasers.
I cannot seem to figure out where I should move, so if anyone could help out that would be much appreciated.

And does anybody have some tips on her last nonspell?

[Shio Yamote]

Thanks! I will have to dodge it the ''legit'' way because I dunno why but the controls feel unresponsive in EoSD and I can't dodge through small gaps correctly. Clipdeaths also occur way more often.  Well, guess I will have to deal with it.