Spell Card Help Topic VI: How do I used Bomb?

[Mesarthim]

So it has recently come to my attention I am downright horrible at Satori's Recollections for Nitori. Second one really is self explanatory... it's the first and third ones that get me.

Hard and above specifically. First spellcard got me so bad since MarisaC is one of my least played shot types. As for extending arm I just plain can't tell when another volley is coming down half of the time.

Edit: Well after a long staredown I think I am getting better at extending arm, but I still need a strategy on the first nitori recollection. I have issues with micromanaging the snake-like waves and the bullets satori shoots.

Edit: Nevermind. Now suddenly I am a master at the first Nitori recollection but am back to messing up extending arm on hard.

I'll get this stuff down eventually.

[Reiko]

Any advice for Flower Imaginary Dream Vine in EoSD Hard ?
I know it's random dodging, but this spell always catches me off guard. Is there any way to make it easier ? I've tried to follow Meiling or to stay in the middle, moving as little as possible, but without success so far.

Also, Remilia's Mountain of a Thousand Needles ?
It's supposed to be her easiest (I guess), but my record for this one is absurdly low.

[MTSranger]

Flower Dream Vine
There isn't really much to say here... I mean, yes there are sort of "lanes" of bullets so if you can see them and avoid them it'd be a little bit easier, but mostly it's just random dodging and avoiding big clumps of bullet (that are coming at you, which you need to learn how to spot) as much as possible imo.

Thousand Needles
Read the knifes in advance by peripheral vision but otherwise just precise reading and movement through little needles.

[I have no name]

I really really really don't understand Flying Insect's Nest (SA) at all.

[Kaguya]

Yesterday I tried playing through PCB on Normal, and surprisingly enough, the Prismrivers didn't deplete my spare lives. I got to Youmu, and I do not remember her being that hard. My run ended on Karmic Punishment, where I died like 5 times, and because bombing with ReimuB doesnt do jack shit.
I thought I was just having a bad day, so I just tried a run through of stage 5 on practice mode.
Nope.
Karmic Punishment still tore me a new asshole.

Spoiler:

I know about the safespot, but I've only ever done that for one wave of bullets out of countless tries

[Reiko]

Karmic Punishment :
I used to stay under Youmu, then rush to the middle during slow motion, dodge the bullets here and go to the other side. It's probably not the fastest way to do it, but quite reliable once you get it. Only tough point is that you need to read the incoming bullets in advance to pick the right spot. If you got it wrong, just bomb.

Here's a replay of it.

Also, thanks Kanon for the advice about Flower Dream Vine. I tried to dodge higher on the screen and to read the lines, it seems to work (4/5 captures so far).

[Karisa]

I think Karmic Punishment is static (depending on which side Youmu is on). So you can memorize any places that don't work, and avoid them the next time. (I agree about the middle of the wave being easier to dodge.)

[I have no name]

I really really really don't understand Flying Insect's Nest (SA) at all.

I still need help with Flying Insects Nest on lunatic and also Orin's 3rd spell...

[Oh]

I can't do it at all but I've heard that you need to restream aggressively after 1 or 2 waves, during the time when nothing bounces off the walls.
For Orin's third spell (is it ghost wheels?) I read the wheels and dodge. I don't understand how they're supposed to be aimed and you're better off asking someone sufficient at the game.
Alternatively, just watch a survival replay. There are a ton on gensokyo.org

[BT]

The wheels are 'aimed' as pairs so you dodge the first one, the third one, the fifth one and so on. Problem is that they're "kind of" aimed (at least I find) so if you're like me you take a look above you anyway, causing the needles to be bitches.

Insect's Nest is trivial if you remember the timing, and if not, you should definitely be good enough to use vertical movement (carefully). The biggest killers are the lasers themselves because they take a while to leave the screen.

[Sakurei]

every wheel is aimed at you slightly right of your hitbox, not every pair, but the speed at which the wheel are shot allows you to stand more of less still until the 2nd wheel as been fired. that way you get maximum damage. so basically, stay under orin, shoot her, wait for the 2nd row of wheels to be shot, go left, wait for a row to be shot, go right, shoot orin, repeat until capture

insect's nest is hourai jewel, just easier. the timing is far more generous. just be aware that the botterflies can aim left/right of your within a few pixels, so don't stream too tightly.

[Darkness1]

First of all, Drake just released the SA boss rush patch so you can use that for some practice.

Probably should try that. I managed to clear SA extra recently, but I still failed alot on Super-ego. I tried to do what you did, but I got too intimidated and pushed myself upwards. Feels like playing a Patchouli spellcard on crack :s

[BT]

Stage 3 midboss spell

How how how

[Esper]

Insert list of every spell in DDC Stage 3 here.

[K.B.]

PoDD info pastebin.  Stuff that isn't on the wiki and that I haven't seen on MotK or IRC.  Please correct and critique as applicable; I'm always looking to learn.

Also realized that the spell gauge is only filled by chaining.  That's on the wiki, but I somehow missed it until now.  I knew that larger chains gave a quicker refill, but I didn't know that enemies you killed with your shot or charge shot didn't give you anything.  Learned it by dicking around, using only charge shots, and wondering why my spell gauge was so low.

[nintendonut888]

Stage 3 midboss spell

How how how

I have yet to capture it myself, but I can see how it works. The "howl trails" are marks to show the direction that bullets are going to travel in. In this case, they are aimed at your position, and the area where the trails sweep will become flooded with bullets. Naturally, this means you must misdirect the waves so you can keep under Kagerou and deal damage. As for dodging the admittedly thick barrage from the sides, that I'm still working on.

[Zil]

Wow, I'd never noticed the spell and boss levels skipping. If that can be manipulated it would very useful, since spells start at such low levels.

I'll post this here, in case there's something in it I haven't mentioned on MotK. I need to put some more work into these now that I have time. I also don't know if you saw the thing about the boss health being set for each character. I think it was in a TARC thread where I used to post crap about PoDD.

The way spell points work in this game confuses me. It seems you can keep calling boss attacks even after getting a boss panic at 300k. I think I posted something about that in the TARC thread as well. I should find it. There may be some things I never wrote down.

Also possibly worth noting, that thing when you don't get a boss at 51k when the enemy boss is on your screen - If you kill the enemy boss, your own appears instantly. I can't tell if you knew that from the pastebin.

And check this out if you haven't seen it.

Here's that other thing. Arcorann found the exact health and bomb damage values.

Edit: Seems like triggering a boss panic boosts the spell level by 3, or is at least very likely to. I've never seen anything else do it though. I've seen the boss level go up by 1 when a spell was cast, and also go up by 2 (so 1 more than it should've) when a boss attack was triggered.

More editing: Distance from the spawn points probably effects whether or not Rikako's spells hit you.

[BT]

I have yet to capture it myself, but I can see how it works. The "howl trails" are marks to show the direction that bullets are going to travel in. In this case, they are aimed at your position, and the area where the trails sweep will become flooded with bullets. Naturally, this means you must misdirect the waves so you can keep under Kagerou and deal damage. As for dodging the admittedly thick barrage from the sides, that I'm still working on.

Yep, dodging the barrage is the problem. Zengeku's vid had a few waves with "pretty good RNG" so I'm wondering if maybe there's a spot where the waves are less dense (a set distance away from the middle of where it was aimed, or something else).

[K.B.]

Zil: thanks for the response.  Your blog, especially the glitches page, is a gold mine for PoDD info.  I saw it linked a month ago on #kusoplay, and I think most of it was new to me then, since I added the entire glitches page to my notes instead of pulling just bits and pieces like I usually do.  It's certainly worthwhile for anyone getting deep into the game.

Interesting info in that other thread, particularly your post before that one.  Seems like spell and boss triggers might be too bizarre to figure out at high spell points.

You hiding any other PoDD info in the nether reaches of MotK?  Gameplay in TARC :\
[Also, I think Patchy's theme has enough of its own stuff to be more than simply lifted.  Good call on the likeness, though.]

Didn't know about the 51k kill-then-summon thing.  At least you don't get a boss attack if your spell points drop to zero and are below 51k when you kill the boss.  That's what I learned from testing, since at first I thought you meant you'd get the boss attack if you passed 51k, no matter what your spell points were at the time of killing the boss.

Good call on the 300k boss panic as the cause of spell-rank skipping.  I should have thought about that; just checked it and yep, that's it.  Still happens if a boss is already on the opponent's screen.  So it only skips by two ranks, not three like I thought, since there is a lvl3 sent to the opponent's screen (I should have watched a youtube instead of trying to figure it out while playing).  And what you said is about boss-rank skipping is what I meant, although I guess I didn't say that.  I redid that entire section just in case someone reads that without reading this following discussion.

Spawn distance isn't the only factor in Rikako's spell shenanigans.  I'm certain that most of my tests yesterday were done at or near the bottom-center of the screen.  I did a few more tests just now, and once I was hit at the bottom-center, several times I was missed in the center-center, and once I was hit at the 1/2-left-and-center part of the screen by spells at those ranks.  I think your chance of getting hit increases the closer you are the one of the spawn points, but you can still get hit anywhere on the screen.

Yumemi stealing the end-round bonus.  Now I've seen everything.

[nintendonut888]

Okay, I think I've figured out Kagerou's midboss spell card. Basically, the bullets are there to make you really panic and think you have less time to get out of the way than you do. If you take your time, it's far more doable than rushing and going DX and dying. Still haven't managed a capture, but I dodged two waves of it.

[BT]

I'm pretty sure the needles spawn and move in one of TWO directions. Can take advantage of that.

Unrelated, but I think her second spellcard has a lower chance to assault you if you go to the corner of the side the bullets move AWAY from. Not 100% sure but, uh.

[RNG]

Yep, dodging the barrage is the problem. Zengeku's vid had a few waves with "pretty good RNG" so I'm wondering if maybe there's a spot where the waves are less dense (a set distance away from the middle of where it was aimed, or something else).

That attack reminds me of Charged Yahoo from 10D but with a bit stricter timing. I've only capped it with homing shot types, unfortunately, but it's definitely not too bad if you misdirect it pretty far to each side.

[Sahgren]

Newbie normal mode question:
I've been having some trouble with Miko's second to last spell card (I forget the name). Is there any trick to that or is it just "dodge better"?

[BT]

Thanks to the replays from the accomplishments thread I know that:

-SakuyaA is a maniac. That power output, man. ReimuA too.
-My suspicions wrt That Midboss Spell were correct - if you dodge a set distance away from where a wave was aimed, it will always be easier.
-You can use the bullets that spawn the glowy bullets in Kagerou's second spell to judge where things will be more/less dense. Sort of.
-The final spell is much less of a problem when you know Kagerou's hitbox's exact course.

[BT]

Status update: I think the last two of Kagerou's nons are in fact static, in base. The same movements go through the same parts every time.
And yes, it's easier to avoid buttfucking "RNG" during the second spell by correctly avoiding the spawning "balls" that are closer to you (so when they spawn you have red glowy bullets assaulting you a pixel above you pretty much).

[Naut]

Hmn, misdirecting the DDC stage 3 midboss spell from corner to corner works fine but I end up timing it out as Reimu B. Those waves come so fast that you don't really get any time to sit underneath her for long. The timing is tight, but it's probably doable (with Reimu B anyway, no thoughts on other shot types). Being quick and aggressive getting through the spam to sit under her for just a few fractions of a second longer... Probably will work. I'll continue research tomorrow.

Couple thoughts on Kagerou's other attacks that [some] people are having trouble with: the last two nons do seem to be static but rotated (confirming what BT said pretty much), so find a path and it should pretty much be the same every time (the first of the last two nons is pretty tight but the last one shouldn't be much trouble). Her second last card "Howling of the Full Moon" can be done by alternating which corner you dodge in, so if the bullets rotate counter clockwise I go to the left corner to slip through them and vice versa. There's lots of time to sit beneath her and shoot her down between waves so there's no worries of timing it out. Her first card "Star Fang" I just sit in the middle and dodge. Be aggressive: don't let the bullets pass by you, you should be moving past them. Sitting still is a good way to make yourself feel trapped.

[RNG]

Newbie normal mode question:
I've been having some trouble with Miko's second to last spell card (I forget the name). Is there any trick to that or is it just "dodge better"?

I'm not sure if it works the same way on Normal as it does on Lunatic, where you can get trapped on one side. However, it can be very hard to avoid getting stuck in a small slice of the screen, since you have little time to react. I suggest observing the lasers and figuring out how they work.

Or just trance, that's what 10D is about.

[hind]

Dear lord, I just can't capture Yoshika's last spell (the one where she enjoys a platter of fresh spirits) due to time out. On EASY mode no less. Whenever I attempt to take them away from her, she sparks. Even if I avoid it, she seems to know I'm there. And she kills me. I'm using Reimu. Any tips?

[LeviLamprey]

Koishi's second heart spell and Genetics of the Subconscious; aaaa ;A;

[CyberAngel]

Dear lord, I just can't capture Yoshika's last spell (the one where she enjoys a platter of fresh spirits) due to time out. On EASY mode no less. Whenever I attempt to take them away from her, she sparks. Even if I avoid it, she seems to know I'm there. And she kills me. I'm using Reimu. Any tips?

Try staying at the bottom, always stay right under her and hammer her with your focused shot non-stop. If you need to dodge, move as little as possible. It would take pretty long, but if you can deal damage consistently, you can deplete all her health even with all the spirits she absorbs.