Kisume Quest VII - A Z-Machine Adventure

[Kilgamayan]

Wait, you want to destroy the Okazaki Drive? Why?

EDIT: Actually, that's the wrong question. What makes you think Kasen would let us do it?

[Hello Purvis]

> Sigh.
> "Let me ask you a personal question, then. Let's say you lot find Sariel guilty of being the big fat liar she is and you do whatever you're gonna do with her. Do you personally think Gensokyo is then any less of a trophy just waiting for the Kosa Empire to collect it?"

>"That is not my concern," says Sombraluz. "It is the Emperor's concern. If he decides to stay his hand, it is because he finds the potential for loss is not worth the risk."

>_

[O4rfish]

Destroying the drive would be one way to prevent the invasion. If you think we can persuade Somraluz to persuade Canus to not invade, destroying it would be redundant. That's why I no longer want to escape right now.

[O4rfish]

>"Listen Sombraluz, I want to explain my line of thinking so that maybe you see my actions in a better light.
The most important thing for me is preventing this invasion. I'm willing to destroy that ship to do it; I am even willing to kill myself to provide advance notice to Gensokyo to fend off your troops. Of course, I would prefer a nonviolent solution, and one which lets me return to Gensokyo alive, which is why I have been spending so much time and energy trying to convince you not to invade."

[Kilgamayan]

What makes you think Kasen would let us do it?

[O4rfish]

I would assume she has very similar goals to Kisume's. What makes you think differently?

[Kilgamayan]

I think she wants to go home. I think we are also game-wise intended to not destroy the machine and the internal mechanism for this is that Kasen will actively try to stop us.

[O4rfish]

How sure are you of this?

[Kilgamayan]

Very, given this game is the 8th in this timeline and there will invariably be more of them after it. If you (or others watching) have read Utsuho Quest, there was even a backup plan in the event of Utsuho failure - the characters were fully intended to get life back to normal. I don't see this situation as any different.

I don't think Kosan access to Gensokyo necessarily matters too much one way or the other, but I would put several figures of money down on Purvis intending for this game to end with Kisume and Kasen back in Gensokyo.

[O4rfish]

Intent is one thing, but I think Purvis could deal with anything we throw at him. You seem to be saying he didn't intend for us to go find Kosan NPCs who want to prevent the invasion, so we can't do it. He didn't intend for us to destroy the ship, trapping Kasen in Kosa until Yumemi builds another one, so we can't do it. He didn't intend for us to build a GSDF, so we can't do it.
Well, I can guarantee he didn't intend for us to commit suicide, but that option is still on the table.

[Kilgamayan]

I would be willing to bet there's an in-game mechanism set to prevent it if we tried it again. Note that we've triggered one already.

Keep in mind that I'm telling you these things about the game mechanics as someone that has been working with them - both in-thread and in private - for almost three years now, and knows that Purvis has several more game ideas in store (because he talks about that sort of thing with Draco and not me >:| ). So far, I haven't seen much of any real reason as to why this situation is suddenly different.

[O4rfish]

I don't see why any of these things would prevent another quest.

[Kilgamayan]

They would remove Kisume and Kasen from the universe from a very long time.

[O4rfish]

I don't see that as being a big problem. Koa was missing for all of Patchy quest. One solution to Brocken involved removing her from Gensokyo. Satori is out of play for most quests. Yumemi herself was introduced in Utsuho Quest, and removed also. Nue quest involved introducing NPCs and then exiling them. Kasen is new enough that exiling her for as long as it takes to build a new ship wouldn't mess with the fabric of Gensokyo. Heck, Rinnosuke being mindblasted had more of an impact than this would. But it's not like I want to destroy the drive, I simply see it as one way to prevent the invasion.
You think we won't be able to find any NPCs who want to prevent the invasion and who are able to help us, because you imagine Purvis didn't plan for us to do that? I think we should at least try, and if we can't it will be apparent. Let's ask Chiyuri or Ruukoto to introduce us to someone who fits that description.
It would at least be more logical than the Jeff K Anon fiasco.

[Yaersulf]

>Glance at Kasen to see if she has the gun.
>If she doesn't, conjure some demon fire.
>"Let's take this discussion to the emperor, because he's the one who gets to make the big decision."
>Start marching him toward the elevator.

[O4rfish]

>don't do this.
We have tons of guards approaching our location, between us and the emperor. We have Sombraluz at a disadvantage right now, but taking him hostage is not going to make our job of convincing the empire to not invade any easier.

[Yaersulf]

Having Sombraluz hostage will make it easier to get to the emperor, though I'm completely fine with doing something else. Another thing to consider is that using a hostage to get to Canus is probably not something he will frown heavily upon, being who he is and all.

[O4rfish]

I'm pretty sure they would be happier letting a hostaged agent die than having a hostage-taker get close to the emperor.

Edit: Well, actually I'm not that sure, but that's the response we would see in our world.

[Kilgamayan]

We're not taking Sombraluz hostage because we've proven remarkably ineffective at doing anything to the guy. In before "but we have a gun now", obvious response is that we don't know how to use it and Sombraluz knows this because Kasen already gave that information away at the very beginning of this encounter.

In order:

- Koakuma was at a known location for all of one game and came back as expected
- Ann Poulter was not a major enough player at the time to be needed to remain in Gensokyo
- Satori is still in Gensokyo every day, even if she's not easy to reach (and she's easier to reach than you might think; certainly easier than the SDM interior or Eientei or Bhava-Agra)
- Most of the PC-98s are not major enough players to be needed to remain with a constant presence in Gensokyo (we've seen Mima all of once, Ellen just appeared for the first time, only half of the Makai residents have appeared despite us going there twice)
- Avalon and its residents are not major enough players to be needed to remain in contact with Gensokyo

Kisume and Kasen are major players who have no reason to just vanish and also have people that will wonder why they're gone and get really worried about it as years go by and they don't return (I think it is safe to assume that Okazaki Drives do not grow on trees).

I do not have a major problem with asking about possible additional ally NPCs, as much as I would still prefer to not piss the Empire off more than we have to. (And the Jeff K. Anon thing was (a) back when the story and players were less serious, and (b) not at all my doing, so I don't see why you'd bother bringing that up, aside from trying to take more shots at me.)

[O4rfish]

I brought up the Jeff K Anon thing as it's a great example of Purvis being able to run with the commands the players give.
As far as people worrying about them, Kasen and Kisume are on the fringes of Gensokyo society. At most, the next PC would get a request from Yamame to look for them.
As far as building another Okazaki drive, we don't have any information as to how long it takes or what materials it uses.

[Kilgamayan]

Jeff K. Anon was a thing that wasn't about to lock multiple major names out of Gensokyo for many yars. If you really don't see the difference between that situation and this one, though, you can wait until UK gets back from NekoCon and tells you why JKA is irrelevant to the current situation.

However much you may want to treat Kisume and Kasen as trivial in the grand scheme of Gensokyo things, I can guarantee they were intended to go home by the end of this.

It stands to reason that, if an Okazaki Drive were easily replacable, they would have done so already, just in case they need a backup for whatever reason.

[O4rfish]

The point I am trying to make is that, even if you know Purvis has intended the story to end a certain way, I am confident in his ability to alter his plans to accomodate the actions we take, especially when those actions are fulfilling goals he wrote into the story.

[Kilgamayan]

And I'm confident in his ability to shut off things he doesn't want to happen when he has the in-story resources to do so. Silly things like JKA and actively removing two large names from Gensokyo for a long period of time are two very different things and will not be treated the same way.

[O4rfish]

Even assuming that Purvis considers Kisume and Kasen to be "large names" out of the hundreds of touhous, and assuming he needs them to return to Gensokyo very soon, and assuming he wouldn't allow himself to use any other plot device that the one already used, I still don't see how he would punish us for entering a command consistent with the goal he has written into his story.

Here are the facts* you have recently revealed:
No helpful Kosan NPCs exist other than those already encountered.
Kisume and Kasen need to use the ship to travel back to Gensokyo, and any attempt to destroy the ship will turn out to be worse than a waste of time.
If we get captured by the soldiers, we will still get to persuade Sombraluz and Canus to not invade Gensokyo.
None of these make sense in terms of a game, a story, or a simulation. I have to ask how you know them, and why they were not made public knowledge, because they massively impact our options.

[Kilgamayan]

Even assuming that Purvis considers Kisume and Kasen to be "large names" out of the hundreds of touhous, and assuming he needs them to return to Gensokyo very soon, and assuming he wouldn't allow himself to use any other plot device that the one already used, I still don't see how he would punish us for entering a command consistent with the goal he has written into his story.

Then why don't you try something like "> Kill Sombraluz >Kill Canus >Escape to Gensokyo", then? Surely he wouldn't punish you for entering commands consistent with your goals, right?

No helpful Kosan NPCs exist other than those already encountered.

I do not have a major problem with asking about possible additional ally NPCs

Kisume and Kasen need to use the ship to travel back to Gensokyo, and any attempt to destroy the ship will turn out to be worse than a waste of time.

Given the question later on in your post, I would like to ask how you know that a second Okazaki Drive could be so easily created.

If we get captured by the soldiers, we will still get to persuade Sombraluz and Canus to not invade Gensokyo.

I don't actually particularly believe this, which is why I'm not interested in vamoosing.

None of these make sense in terms of a game, a story, or a simulation. I have to ask how you know them, and why they were not made public knowledge, because they massively impact our options.

From playing Purvis games for years and talking with him in and out of games about both general text adventure gameplay theory and specific instances of what might have been. Do you think you know Purvis better than I do?

[Kilgamayan]

Oh yeah, I never wrote the follow-up.

> "Then you should probably know that as gung-ho as he was about making my home a trophy, he stopped our discussion as soon as I gave him info that contradicted what Sariel told him. And when I asked him why her being a liar mattered in terms of whether or not my home was worth invading, he implied it mattered a good deal. So maybe he'd like to hear his additional information sooner rather than later."

[Hello Purvis]

>"Listen Sombraluz, I want to explain my line of thinking so that maybe you see my actions in a better light. The most important thing for me is preventing this invasion. I'm willing to destroy that ship to do it; I am even willing to kill myself to provide advance notice to Gensokyo to fend off your troops. Of course, I would prefer a nonviolent solution, and one which lets me return to Gensokyo alive, which is why I have been spending so much time and energy trying to convince you not to invade."

>"You seem to have no difficulty with escorting us others' violent solutions, then assisting them with it," says the Agent.

> "Then you should probably know that as gung-ho as he was about making my home a trophy, he stopped our discussion as soon as I gave him info that contradicted what Sariel told him. And when I asked him why her being a liar mattered in terms of whether or not my home was worth invading, he implied it mattered a good deal. So maybe he'd like to hear his additional information sooner rather than later."

>"And what role would you have in this?" Sombraluz says.

>_

[Kilgamayan]

> "I can stay away while you report it, if you want. I can even spend some time trying to slap some sense into Yumemi. I wouldn't be surprise if he wants to talk to me again afterward, though, so don't keep me too far away."

[Hello Purvis]

> "I can stay away while you report it, if you want. I can even spend some time trying to slap some sense into Yumemi. I wouldn't be surprise if he wants to talk to me again afterward, though, so don't keep me too far away."

>"Those are both things you can do in confinement," says Sombraluz, "But it seems that will be delayed a little."

>_

[Kilgamayan]

> "I don't think I could talk to Yumemi in confinement. I suspect she'd kill me before out-and-out surrendering."
> Tilt our head back toward Kasen again so as to talk more toward her.
> "Can you pick that weapon up?"