That Moon thread that someone had to start

[Ikari]

Every single time I hear someone say something Lunar-Related, I feel a headache coming because it's in my opinion the most nonsensical confusing crazy plot ZUN ever wrote.

This thread cleared up so many things, I can finally understand this and that from Kaguya/Eirin/The two moonbi- I mean sisters.

The only thing that's left to explain is why the hell Eirin recognized Sakuya. It kinda ticks me off because I really get the feeling ZUN put that single line in there for the sake of trolling us all without having any kind of idea as why the hell she'd say that. It spouted countless ''Sakuya is a lunarian'' theories and yet, every other thing ZUN ever made point around EVERYWHERE to explain Sakuya's backstory EXCEPT the whole Lunarian thing. I don't get it.

[ShiroiMahotsukai]

I just re-read the last few chapters of CoLR and I couldn't stop laughing the entire time. Especially the last chapter. The scene with Reimu on the moon to me amounts to "If you're making me dance in the streets why can't I keep the money they throw at me?" "Never mind that, let's go eat. Don't speak with your mouth full it's rude." "You guys are a small country, why are you so arrogant?" "Size doesn't matter, we're just better. We do get drunk every night like everyone else though, we just have better booze."

I just couldn't stop laughing.

[Starxsword]

The part about the moon rabbits is another multi-layered reference. Read the Wikipedia article on "moon rabbit": it's short but informative.

I am Chinese, so I do know about moon rabbits and such, even if I do not have thorough knowledge of this stuff, since I only hear stories about it.

I believe I remember them having moon rabbits make the elixir for Chang'e in the moon in the Touhou setting. Or are you saying that this is just used as a reference? I thought that was the reason why Reisen II ran away, because she did not like such a monotonous job.

Except ONE small thing that you all disregarded.
In Cage in Lunatic Runagate (last chapter), when Reimu's absurdly brutal and horrible punishment is being described,  one of the Watatsuki sisters (either the nice ponytailed one or the crazy tech-maniac one) says the following:
"It's the best way to show that you are able to summon the gods. We don't like killing here so it's the most serious punishment you will receive. Once you've finished, you may return to Earth."

I did not disregard that. Just because they say they do not like killing, it does not mean they do not do it. My comment is more on the lines of Lunarians having better technology than humans by far. So, as far as executing someone is concerned, they likely have more ways to do it.
However, the only thing given to us is that Kaguya was executed repeatedly, but we just don't know what the various ways are or how it was done or whether it was "brutal" or "clean". In this regard, we cannot say whether Kaguya's execution is any less or more horrible than other executions.

Also, do note that it isn't like Reimu does not have friends. Yuyuko and Youmu are there watching the Watatsuki sister's actions. What the sisters really want to do, I don't know, but there are consequences on their actions if they are reckless.

[Hart]

"America does not torture" - George W. Bush.

Nothing further, Your Honor.

Nothing further, indeed. By comparing the moon to that "Ulcered Sphincter of Arse-erica", you proved yourself being a smelly and unfortunate irish. And by comparing Yorihime to that godless bretzel-eating simpleton, you got your name written down in my "to torture slowly and kill" list. Strength through unity, unity through faith! England prevails!

I did not disregard that. Just because they say they do not like killing, it does not mean they do not do it. My comment is more on the lines of Lunarians having better technology than humans by far. So, as far as executing someone is concerned, they likely have more ways to do it.
However, the only thing given to us is that Kaguya was executed repeatedly, but we just don't know what the various ways are or how it was done or whether it was "brutal" or "clean". In this regard, we cannot say whether Kaguya's execution is any less or more horrible than other executions.

I personally consider that this statement (the "we don't like killing") is incompatible with that topic's depiction of a blood-thirsty moon killing Kaguya on a daily basis for the helluva. It doesn't mean they don't kill (what happened to the differents expeditions proves it), of course, but it means they don't kill for the lulz. After all, you can't pretend to be superior and all if your favourite game is trying to kill an immortal girl.
And the Moon is NEITHER Commoragh, NOR Malacath's kingdom, so don't even try to compare them. Tsukuyomi is far more popular at party than Malacath anyway. And let's not talk about Jyggalag.

[Ikari]

I am amazed by how much discord and chaos the lunarians can cause among Touhou fans.

[Alfred F. Jones]

I am amazed by how much discord and chaos the lunarians can cause among Touhou fans.

It is caused at least in part by major confusion, because it really is a very tangled story. Which is why I always look forward to Lunarian discussion threads, because they help me understand so much.

[Hart]

I am amazed by how much discord and chaos the lunarians can cause among Touhou fans.

Personally, I think it's a good thing. It means that we're open-minded. If we weren't, each moon thread would be flooded with either "Yorihime is awesome" or "the moon sucks, thread locked". But that doesn't mean you can post if you're just going to bitch and rage about SSiB or how Eirin kicked your communism butt back to your motherland.

[Ikari]

Personally, I think it's a good thing. It means that we're open-minded. If we weren't, each moon thread would be flooded with either "Yorihime is awesome" or "the moon sucks, thread locked". But that doesn't mean you can post if you're just going to bitch and rage about SSiB or how Eirin kicked your communism butt back to your motherland.

It is caused at least in part by major confusion, because it really is a very tangled story. Which is why I always look forward to Lunarian discussion threads, because they help me understand so much.

Both of you raises good points; I agree that it's nice to see different views to understand better, and it's always more interesting to see actual opinions and such than just ''Lol dis suk'' or ''Watatsukis are awsum the end'', but I'm still amazed by how much different views and such this topic raises. I mean, it's perfectly normal to debate or present one's opinions, but this one surpasses any other topic of debate ever.

[Error]

So...why did Kaguya want the elixir in the first place?

[Ikari]

So...why did Kaguya want the elixir in the first place?

...*realizes he never thought of that before*

Uuh... Excellent question...Isn't her power control over the instantaneous and eternity? Can't she make herself immortal already anyway?

[Starxsword]

I personally consider that this statement (the "we don't like killing") is incompatible with that topic's depiction of a blood-thirsty moon killing Kaguya on a daily basis for the helluva. It doesn't mean they don't kill (what happened to the differents expeditions proves it), of course, but it means they don't kill for the lulz. After all, you can't pretend to be superior and all if your favourite game is trying to kill an immortal girl.

It has nothing to do with bloodthirsty killing, but it has everything to do with killing. If you cannot execute Kaguya one way, you try another method, hence the repeated attempts. This is not about them trying to torture her before she dies, this is them trying to simply kill her. How much pain she receives is not their concern, there are no indications mentioning them trying to be humane about this.
What I have argued and am still arguing is that there is no reason to believe their methods are any less brutal than your examples, because we do not know how they attempted to kill her. What I see is that their goal is to kill her and they have made numerous attempts at executing her. It should be safe to assume that they repeatedly tried different ways to kill her. Now, I did not mention they want to kill her painfully or torture her. It may simply be the side effect of the method of execution at hand.


As for the reason why Kaguya wants to take the Hourai Elixir, it could just simply be a case of curiousity.

[Tengukami]

It has nothing to do with bloodthirsty killing, but it has everything to do with killing. If you cannot execute Kaguya one way, you try another method, hence the repeated attempts. This is not about them trying to torture her before she dies, this is them trying to simply kill her. How much pain she receives is not their concern, there are no indications mentioning them trying to be humane about this.

The simple fact that they did execute her many times is torture enough. Even if the method was "painless", it would still be torturous, not to mention inhumane to just keep trying.

Also, you might want to try and pick up on the light and humorous tone being used by folks in this thread in order to keep this from becoming yet another Canon Pedant Bickerfest. We're talking about Lunarians here, after all - moon rabbits, floppy hats, fabulous costumes.

[cuc]

SSiB Ch 3:
Eirin said the elixir Chang'E took was also made by her.

CiLR Ch 6:
The moon rabbits' labour is called "pounding rice cakes", but the "rice cakes" are actually the Hourai elixir. They don't know why they are doing this.

We're talking about Lunarians here, after all - moon rabbits, floppy hats, fabulous costumes.

And belts. Tokiame (illustrator of CiLR) loves belts so much, ZUN had to specially design two characters with huge belts, so Tokiame can enjoy drawing them! Nonetheless, Tokiame still added belts to everyone, even if belts don't suit their personalities.

The whole Lunarian society is several serious themes wrapped in a very dryly told running joke about Amatsukami (gods of heaven) being ancient astronauts who have exactly the same technologies as the modern world.

[Hart]

The simple fact that they did execute her many times is torture enough. Even if the method was "painless", it would still be torturous, not to mention inhumane to just keep trying.

Also, you might want to try and pick up on the light and humorous tone being used by folks in this thread in order to keep this from becoming yet another Canon Pedant Bickerfest. We're talking about Lunarians here, after all - moon rabbits, floppy hats, fabulous costumes.

I like how you're talking about keeping that thread safe 'n' happy while arguing about how lunarians are still torturing immortal girls for the lulz and are evil and inhumane.
And by "like", I mean "hate with a rage spewing one hundreds suns, each one with its own planets, each planets being populated with raging snakes happy to devoure your body and shit over your grave".

SSiB Ch 3:
Eirin said the elixir Chang'E took was also made by her.

CiLR Ch 6:
The moon rabbits' labour is called "pounding rice cakes", but the "rice cakes" are actually the Hourai elixir. They don't know why they are doing this.

Now THAT'S what I was looking for. I'm looking for canon debate between gentlemen using sounds arguments and real sources, not "im emo and i ate lunarien becoz they killd kaguya (((" posts.
And now, that raises another question: since Kaguya's power is apparently needed to create the Hourai soda, that means that Kaguya didn't drink it immediately when it came out. She waited a bit (some thousands years, apparently), before trying it.

[Tengukami]

Hart, I'm going to take that as just your brand of whacky, edgy jokin' around, because I'm not seeing a contradiction betwix "the Lunarians were demonstrably cruel" and "hey, let's have fun talking about it." That reaction's gotta be hyper-irono-hyperbole. Unless, of course ... you're one of them!

[AnonymousPondScum]

because I'm not seeing a contradiction betwix "the Lunarians were demonstrably cruel" and "hey, let's have fun talking about it.

Now I'm imagining the Spanish Inquisition sketch from Monty Python with Eirin and the moon sisters as the Inquisitors. :gtdown:

EDIT: Note to self. Reisen's madness eyes = weaponized PTSD? Investigate.

[Hart]

Hart, I'm going to take that as just your brand of whacky, edgy jokin' around, because I'm not seeing a contradiction betwix "the Lunarians were demonstrably cruel" and "hey, let's have fun talking about it." That reaction's gotta be hyper-irono-hyperbole. Unless, of course ... you're one of them!

That's a celwydd. I'm totally not rooting for lunarians, I'm totally not laughing when I hear about lunarians trying to kill many times the same thing, and I'm not considering myself as the Moon's white knight. Totally not.
Now excuse me, I have to go find a mini-armour and scream "IN THE NAME OF MOON, I'LL KILL YOU" to my cat.

Now I'm imagining the Spanish Inquisition sketch from Monty Python with Eirin and the moon sisters as the Inquisitors. :getdown:

Of course. Everybody expect the spanish inquisition, so nobody expect the lunar one.

[Ikari]

Now I'm imagining the Spanish Inquisition sketch from Monty Python with Eirin and the moon sisters as the Inquisitors. :gtdown:

NOBODY EXPECTS THE LUNAR INQUISITION!

Nevermind, Yukari totally does :V

[Starxsword]

SSiB Ch 3:
Eirin said the elixir Chang'E took was also made by her.

CiLR Ch 6:
The moon rabbits' labour is called "pounding rice cakes", but the "rice cakes" are actually the Hourai elixir. They don't know why they are doing this.

In Cage in Lunatic Runagate, you learn that they are still making the elixir, and I believe it was for Chang'e. I believe Chang'e did not take 3 sips from the elixir or something.

In either case, it does not really matter if the elixir Chang'e took was made by Eirin, as there is no real conflict with Kaguya, since as already mentioned, we don't really know when Kaguya wanted to drink the elixir.

[cuc]

In Cage in Lunatic Runagate, you learn that they are still making the elixir, and I believe it was for Chang'e. I believe Chang'e did not take 3 sips from the elixir or something.

The rabbits are told it is a replacement for Chang'e's punishment. According to REISEN, it's entirely meaningless, as at least to their eyes, no progress has been made on the elixir they are pounding for thousands of years.

This actually sounds a little like foreshadowing. Perhaps there really is a hidden purpose to the rabbits' labour.

...Unless the Lunarians assigned the rabbits this task just so they have something to do, and Chang'e only gave them a good excuse. If REISEN is the only one who ever tried deserting, then this has proven to be a pretty successful form of social control.

[haoreos2]

...hm. Caps-locking the name of a character with trippy eyes in a series with a giant red moon, with an (employer?) from there, tangentially related to a couple of conflicting characters who don't die if they are killed.

Crossover senses tingling.

[Starxsword]

The rabbits are told it is a replacement for Chang'e's punishment. According to REISEN, it's entirely meaningless, as at least to their eyes, no progress has been made on the elixir they are pounding for thousands of years.

Well, Eirin isn't with them, so it is harder or improbable to make.

...Unless the Lunarians assigned the rabbits this task just so they have something to do, and Chang'e only gave them a good excuse. If REISEN is the only one who ever tried deserting, then this has proven to be a pretty successful form of social control.

I find this unlikely, but it is a possibility.

[Hart]

The rabbits are told it is a replacement for Chang'e's punishment. According to REISEN, it's entirely meaningless, as at least to their eyes, no progress has been made on the elixir they are pounding for thousands of years.

I guess someone on the Moon was bored and decided to retry the "one million monkey typing on one million typewriter could write a Shakespeare book." Or something like that, not quite sure what the original sentence is. Point is, it's impossible to be immortal just by pounding something, so someone on the moon is probably a douchebag telling lies to everyone and laughing at the rabbits hopelessly pounding and pounding.
We have a concurrent for Tewi, here.

[cuc]

A slight derail. I've recently decided that Kaguya is in fact a good person, and she's actually taking care of Mokou (possibly using a very wrong method). After all, before the IN trial of guts, she only had two "assasssins" to send: herself and Udonge. What do you think?

[Hart]

A slight derail. I've recently decided that Kaguya is in fact a good person, and she's actually taking care of Mokou (possibly using a very wrong method). After all, before the IN trial of guts, she only had two "assasssins" to send: herself and Udonge. What do you think?

She's not serious about it.
Either that, or she's trying to get Mokou bored to death by using canon fodder as assassin. I tried that once, on Starcraft. Instead of going for the battlecuisers, I tried a marine rush. It worked. What a shame that Inaba doesn't have a gauss rifle instead of those tiny, silky and delicate hands.

[Ikari]

I always thought Kaguya was just killing Mokou for the laughs and considered their battles as pure entertainment while Mokou is dead serious about it, truly wanting to exact revenge on Kaguya for the death of her father and being pretty damn annoyed by Kaguya's ''assassins''.

At the same time, they'd almost need each other because they're the only one who can keep company to the other without having to see her wither away.

[Hazdoc]

Somebody started an argument about it somewhere else, but I'm curious anyways.

Do the moon rabbits work for the lunarians, or what?  Reisen (Udongein) and the moon rabbits seem to work for them, but other people say that the moon rabbits act of their own free will, and only some of them are like Reisen.

[Tengukami]

She's not serious about it.

Yeah, neither one of them are, really. Kaguya keeps instigating (or "bucking", as we would call it in Baltimore); trying to pick a fight more or less for fun and laughs. Mokou's attitude, going by her dialogue in IN, is pretty shruggo - a sort of "Oh, so she's sent you two over to mess with me? Eh, that's Kaguya for you. Ah well, let's get this over with." Contrast that with the not-so-canon IotM, IotE where Mokou will get pissed off over a fishing contest.

[Ikari]

Hmmm... Wouldn't that mean Mokou is pretty casual when it comes to the people Kaguya sent but when it comes to an actual competition against Kaguya, would get a lot more fired up?

[Starxsword]

A slight derail. I've recently decided that Kaguya is in fact a good person, and she's actually taking care of Mokou (possibly using a very wrong method). After all, before the IN trial of guts, she only had two "assasssins" to send: herself and Udonge. What do you think?

Well, you find out who those assassins are. They are really multiple copies of Reisen, that or the earth rabbits, since that's really all the minions Kaguya has. Kaguya sent 5 assassins against Mokou in Inaba of Earth and Moon, all of which are Reisens. So, Reisen was just getting beat up more and more...

I always thought Kaguya was just killing Mokou for the laughs and considered their battles as pure entertainment while Mokou is dead serious about it, truly wanting to exact revenge on Kaguya for the death of her father and being pretty damn annoyed by Kaguya's ''assassins''.

Nah, Mokou is not hell bent to go after Kaguya anymore. You can see this in Cage in Lunatic Runagate, where she is worried that Kaguya may have left for the moon.