Author Topic: Genius of Sappherios Zansyo/Weekend (Read 158048 times)

Eilaris · « **Reply #300 on:** October 05, 2012, 03:03:48 AM »

Quote from: Magic The Shastri on October 05, 2012, 01:00:31 AM

lol what? Did you hit your head? She still sucks, and I can prove it. I added discharge to her skill list which is at least a passable elec magical attack

Discharge is terrible for damage. Absolutely terrible. Plasma Ball would hit harder - based on your numbers, it should do at LEAST 8k, in fact.

RegalStar · « **Reply #301 on:** October 05, 2012, 03:06:06 AM »

Um, Discharge is one of her WEAKER skills. It does only 0.25x damage as plasma ball. Plasma Ball under the same condition would do 4x as much damage; it should do about 8-9k.

Also, it's not really fair to compare a skill Marisa gets at level 30 with a skill Satori can learn right off the bat, so replacing Stardust Surge with Stardust Missile would end up making it do 0.66x damage, or around 9.5-10k. The difference is pretty small.

That only matters early game though. Chances are, Satori will be able to pick up Mad Thunder shortly after Marisa learns Stardust Surge, so let's compare those. Each individual hit from Mad Thunder does 7/8x the damage as a plasma ball, and it also has inherent elemental strength+25% (which Plasma Ball lacks). On the earth elemental in question (which is 4x weak to electric), the damage per hit is about ~8.5k per hit, and mad thunder hits twice 1/3 of the time and thrice 2/3 of the time. The average damage here comes out to be about 22k damage or so.

Hinacle · « **Reply #302 on:** October 05, 2012, 03:39:59 AM »

Ok so, I'm about to fight the Existence Hater. Any tips?

Starxsword · « **Reply #303 on:** October 05, 2012, 04:40:59 AM »

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And maybe sometimes as a debuffer (but Byakuren is still better for this task).

Satori's debuff is definitely stronger than Byakuren's. Enervation is stronger than Byakuren's attack debuff. Mad Thunder is Satori's strongest electric damage spell, why aren't you using that to compare?

However, if you do use Satori for pure damage, as everyone else mentions, it does fall behind. Her pure damage potential is mediocre, unless you get her super strong spells.

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #304 on:** October 05, 2012, 05:20:15 AM »

Quote from: Hinacle on October 05, 2012, 03:39:59 AM

Ok so, I'm about to fight the Existence Hater. Any tips?

\

Been a while since I last did that fight (shortly before I lost interest and abandoned that playthrough at the final stage. Yeah, I know. I don't intend to give up this time around), so I don't remember what my exact strategy was, but I do remember that my primary damage dealer ended up being Reisen (slayer abuse FTW). I think the others were Reimu/Satori for healing, I don't remember which (Satori's is stronger, but Reimu's heals statuses. I don't remember if the boss uses any but if it does, Reimu's probably the better choice), Sanae for buffing/resurrecting/backup healing, Byakuren for debuffing (and ATK buffing, since her single-targets are stronger than Sanae's multi-targets and this setup only has one attacker), and Alice for defence. I think that's who I used, though I don't really remember. I do remember clearly remember Reisen being the main damage dealer, though.

Sungho · « **Reply #305 on:** October 05, 2012, 06:13:03 AM »

The main body is immune to the 6 elements and weak to physical. So you'll need a physical-oriented team.
It has a front mouth that does support. It starts to use Elixir after 5 turns it was alive, so kill that first. It's weak to FIR and ETH and SLA
It also has another mouth that does some support attack, but if both mouths are dead, the main body will use Abyss Wind and revive both, so leave it alone.
The main body has 1500 PDEF, but has no natural resistance to variety and is also weak to DEF down.

Once you reach it to less than 33% HP, it will use a VOI fixed 999 damage on the whole party.
Ignores divine barriers, magic barriers(set chance to completely dodge magic), magic reflect, magic damage reduction, magic damage nullify, and reraise. How amazing.

You can still use Nitori's 3-bomb, or Super Duplex Barrier, or Starlight Barrier and the such.
Most simple way is to use Little Legion + Yata no Kagami.
Or you can kill the boss before it uses it.

As GuyYouMetOnline mentioned, using Reisen's special slayer is the best way.
I recommend Mokou too because you can kill the mouth with Fujiyama and Final Finger is less affected by PDEF.

I used Alice, Mokou, Reisen, Sanae, and Byakuren with Poison Shield for this fight.

And Mad Thunder actually does 3 hits 75% of the time. An exception when max-min=1.

LeviLamprey · « **Reply #306 on:** October 05, 2012, 07:08:47 AM »

@Shastri: Satori is not only insanely adaptable and useful, particularly in boss fights, but she can deal extremely good damage. Mine picked up Medoroa in Stage 21 by chance, and with an Eye and only 3 points in Third Eye, she dealt more in one hit than anybody else on the team could manage, except when they were hitting weaknesses, even with dualcasting. Her utility and ability to deal decent damage with tiny/very reasonable MP costs on bosses and stronger enemies that require strategies means she can hit weaknesses often and repeatedly, and can also be brought into a defensive role when needed.
I haven't taken her off the team since she joined the party, and I can safely say her usefulness is very high, though it seems to dip a little in Stage 16-18 (the enemies are just generally annoying in those stages, though). Marisa may deal more damage than her, but she is a one-trick pony and has access to a limited movepool consisting of three elements and rather uninteresting effects.
Satori can be fitted to deal with mooks, to help bring down powerful minibosses or stronger mook formations, to support or to be an annoyance. Her statuses aren't half bad either.

EDIT: Thanks, GuyYouMetOnline, neople have been suggesting that, so I'll try it out

RegalStar · « **Reply #307 on:** October 05, 2012, 07:27:08 AM »

Wouldn't 99 MP cost (75 after adustment?) makes it kind of not very helpful when exploring without permanent healing point access though?

Serela · « **Reply #308 on:** October 05, 2012, 07:59:17 AM »

Quote from: LeviLamprey on October 05, 2012, 07:08:47 AM

and I can safely say her usefulness is very high, though it seems to dip a little in Stage 16-18

Plenty of weaknesses in stage 16 to hit, along with the practically Satori-exclusive dark element. In Stage 17 it's highly effective to use a chaser strat with Satori/Patch and Satori can hurt the difficult Otohime with her dark weakness, and in 18 she's lovely in the third party with her high RES and to hit light/elec/fire weaknesses; especially so because MAD THUNDER is so awesome.

Starxsword · « **Reply #309 on:** October 05, 2012, 08:29:38 AM »

Medoroa, Meteor, etc. those spells aren't very good. They are costly and don't do the damage that their mana costs.

EDIT: wow terrible typo, I meant AREN'T very good.

achicken · « **Reply #310 on:** October 05, 2012, 01:33:48 PM »

Quote

Bardiche (a staff that increases elec power by 20%)

There's your problem. I actually tested this when going up against Taiwan - when she first wiped me, I tried to push as much Lightning as possible into my setup.

Turned out that wasn't a good idea. By the time you got to Taiwan, the Baridiche is sorely outdated. I had a Rod of Mannan at the time too, which wasn't Lightning elemental (it was Water).

Yes I had that lightning booster formation. No land mods because PATCHY DIED... =.=
With the Rod of Mannan, per hit with Mad Thunder does ~ 600+ on Taiwan.
With the Baridiche, per hit with Mad Thunder does ~ 400+ on Taiwan.
No, I'm not joking. 10 bloody difference in MATK (22 vs 12) caused this drastic reduction in damage. The Bardiche's +20% to ELE was *not even remotely enough to cover for the loss in MATK*.

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #311 on:** October 05, 2012, 03:59:04 PM »

Does the Bardiche increase all lightning damage? Because if it says something like 'add damage: ele 20%' or whatever the actual phrasing is, that just means regular attacks do 20% extra lightning damage (and maybe physical skills, too; I'm not actually sure on that). It doesn't apply to magic.

LeviLamprey · « **Reply #312 on:** October 05, 2012, 04:20:04 PM »

I didn't have Mad Thunder :C
But by dipped slightly I meant she didn't walk all over everything QUITE as much (she's been my MVP for most parts of the game), though Stage 16 was generally just a bit annoying and mean.
17 was fine aside from the Otohime and the crabs, and she was useful there, and I had Satori in party three but had to juggle a little for a learn skill, IIRC.

RegalStar · « **Reply #313 on:** October 05, 2012, 06:34:14 PM »

Bardiche's description says 雷属性強化：20% in Japanese version, which means that it enhances electric attribute. Weapons that add additional damage in an element looks more something like 雷の追加ダメージ：20%.

Anyways, I took Patchy to stage 8 and tried to fight some sunflowers using only Call Thunder. With Bardiche, the damage numbers were 362 308 333 405 309. I then equipped her with an Eraser Engine (the most powerful staff I have at the moment) and the damage numbers become 318 306 288 309 333 292. The electric enhance definitely is working and working well.

On a side note, Mad Thunder is seriously powerful stuff. On Anatasis Satori with nothing but a Bracelet of Insight II and a Philosopher's Cane (I was planning on having her to heal until Byakuren's done buffing and can take over) was easily outdamaging Patchy with a Bardiche, except when the latter rolls two hits, in addition to her ability to heal and Starlight Barrier for Muscle Revolution. Kind of wish she had such powerful and cost efficient attacks in other elements except dark... oh well.

Maiden Synnae ミ☆ · « **Reply #314 on:** October 06, 2012, 01:41:55 AM »

Well guys... sorry about that, I don't have Mad Thunder's and didn't know the damage output was so much more powerful than that lame discharge. (To be honest, I thought the former would simply be the equivalent of 3 consecutive attacks of the latter).

Hence why I didn't use Mad Thunder to compare. Didn't bother learning it from Iku since I thought it'd be just another electric skill... and well, things are going to be hard for me now because I've only seen a stupid zera beetle once or maybe twice during my very first battles on stage 21. After that, they never ever appeared for me again... and I have used that place to grind and farm for power points several, several times. Which also gives me the impression their probability encounter rate decreases each time you see em.

-EDIT-

By the way, is there not an enemy that has 100% chance of dropping adamantite and orichalcum shards? I mean, there are enemies with 100% elemental shards drop chance (Princess Undine, Princess Sylph, Royal Earth and Elder Salamander) So... I was just wondering.

I know it's kind of easy to beat Princess Hydra and God Eater for orichalcum and adamantite respectively, but the problem is that those quests won't appear that often... is there not a trick to make them show more frequently?

-EDIT 2.0-

Uhhh... how to dispel hina's physical reflecting barrier? (the one that reimu and marisa can't penetrate)

Touhou wiki says Sanae can do it, but I just don't know how.

Starxsword · « **Reply #315 on:** October 06, 2012, 05:35:13 AM »

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Uhhh... how to dispel hina's physical reflecting barrier? (the one that reimu and marisa can't penetrate)

Touhou wiki says Sanae can do it, but I just don't know how.

Both Reimu and Marisa have reflect ignoring spells and they have a tree that allows them to ignore reflect, so I don't understand why you are failing to penetrate her reflect.
In either case, she's the one you should be putting Cirno in your group.

Quote

No, I'm not joking. 10 bloody difference in MATK (22 vs 12) caused this drastic reduction in damage. The Bardiche's +20% to ELE was *not even remotely enough to cover for the loss in MATK*.

10 MATK difference is HUGE on a weapon. MATK is affected by int, the higher the number the larger overall MATK change you will see as your INT goes up. This means that the "10 MATK" you see is actually something like 40 MATK on your numbers or something.

Maiden Synnae ミ☆ · « **Reply #316 on:** October 06, 2012, 06:25:17 AM »

Quote from: Starxsword on October 06, 2012, 05:35:13 AM

Both Reimu and Marisa have reflect ignoring spells and they have a tree that allows them to ignore reflect, so I don't understand why you are failing to penetrate her reflect.
In either case, she's the one you should be putting Cirno in your group.

Nevermind... I just defeated her. The spell I was looking for was Miracle of Dispel. (Didn't know that Hina's barriers were classified as variety effects). Well, that along with the anti-reflect spells made the battle really easy, in fact... even easier than Abyss Demon.

Now just 2 more stages to go.

Conker8u · « **Reply #317 on:** October 06, 2012, 06:52:22 AM »

I seem to have found a glitch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T5Ulgyg580&feature=plcp

It lets you receive quest items without having to fight the quest enemy.

Serela · « **Reply #318 on:** October 06, 2012, 07:27:29 AM »

Quote from: Starxsword on October 06, 2012, 05:35:13 AM

In either case, she's the one you should be putting Cirno in your group

whaaaaa?

Is she weak to the Freeze status or something...? o_O

I suppose Cirno could reflect stuff, but considering only on herself, is that really of much use? If you wanted reflect, Satori seems like a better choice... reflect wall isn't very hard to learn.

Anyway, if you feel like, Reisen and Satori (if you have Sweeping) can do physical dispels as well, for the other barrier. But it's generally not important. If you wanted, I've heard Vortex can dispel her final one... but I'm not sure about this at all. If it can, you could probably dispel it with a reflected dispel as well. But... also not really important, as there's easier things to do.

Starxsword · « **Reply #319 on:** October 06, 2012, 08:16:47 AM »

Cirno's reflect is not like Satori's. It doesn't have that insane cool down. I believe you can set it up so that Cirno can have perpetual reflect status, which means Hina's counter will get her killed.

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #320 on:** October 06, 2012, 08:19:17 AM »

Quote from: Starxsword on October 06, 2012, 05:35:13 AM

Both Reimu and Marisa have reflect ignoring spells and they have a tree that allows them to ignore reflect, so I don't understand why you are failing to penetrate her reflect.

Those are magic attacks. Shastri was asking about dispelling the barrier that reflects physical attacks and makes her immune to magic. And reflect penetration only penetrates reflect, not immunity. So if you're using Reimu and Marisa for offense, you'll want to get rid of that barrier. And yes, Miracle of Dispel is the ability I was referring to (I'm the one who initially wrote the page for stage 25, though someone else added the chest locations). Maybe I should add that for clarity.

Also, Reimu can take Hina's final phase out in one hit with a strong enough spellcard, a MAG buff, and a high light land level.

Starxsword · « **Reply #321 on:** October 06, 2012, 08:58:13 AM »

Oh, that barrier? I just wait it out. Or if you think your Satori is badass enough, use Breath attacks on her.

Serela · « **Reply #322 on:** October 06, 2012, 04:11:13 PM »

Quote from: Starxsword on October 06, 2012, 08:16:47 AM

Cirno's reflect is not like Satori's. It doesn't have that insane cool down. I believe you can set it up so that Cirno can have perpetual reflect status, which means Hina's counter will get her killed.

uh

you mean Satori's unlearnable move Reflection? :V

Because Reflect Wall, that targets everyone, has a cooldown of one with the appropriate POW trees that you can definitely afford by then.

Also, Cirno still has to have one or two turns without reflect up. (With Satori though, you could get closer to infinite, I suppose)

Hinacle · « **Reply #323 on:** October 06, 2012, 04:55:34 PM »

I was able to beat Existence Hater. My god Mokou was hitting 11,780 every Fujiwara Volcano and Sakuya was doing 20,000 damage when she had Sakuya's World buff on. At the end I used Private Square but, I didn't see how much MP Sakuya had so, she could only hit with her regular attack. I got Mokou's last word two times throughout the fight which really helped.

Starxsword · « **Reply #324 on:** October 06, 2012, 06:55:28 PM »

Quote

uh

you mean Satori's unlearnable move Reflection?

Because Reflect Wall, that targets everyone, has a cooldown of one with the appropriate POW trees that you can definitely afford by then.

Also, Cirno still has to have one or two turns without reflect up. (With Satori though, you could get closer to infinite, I suppose)

Satori's Reflect Wall doesn't hit 0 cool down. I believe her cool down minimum is 1.

Hmmm, I just tested it, Cirno's reflect lasts 3 turns and has a 4 turn cool down. So, there is a 2 turn delay in between casts. This is weird, I remember it lasting longer, like 4 to 5 turns, with enough IND.

Hinacle · « **Reply #325 on:** October 06, 2012, 07:15:21 PM »

Where do I get Punish the Judgement? I'm at the last dungeon of the Expansion.

Maiden Synnae ミ☆ · « **Reply #326 on:** October 06, 2012, 09:32:30 PM »

Argh... I'm nearly giving up on trying to beat this damn Existence Hater. Even with meltdown, weapon bless and wind of miracles my Mokou is only dealing a pathetic 7~8K damage to him. and she has kusanagi equipped! While sakuya is only dealing 3~4K on each hit of her Full Moon Revenge. Not to mention that they're on level 75/73 respectively.

My strategy was first using Sanae to buff everyone's HP with Star Ritual Godly Winds then using Miracle of Otensui to full everyone. After that, I used Sakuya's Colosseo World to negate the boss' healing. The rest was just basic stuff such as spamming Fujiyama Volcano, using Bykauren for buffs and debuffs, alice for little legion + parrar... etc.

My equippment was:

Mokou:
Kusanagi / Composite Shield / A.Muscle Suit / Awakened Soul / Strength Ring IV / Hades Amulet

Sakuya:
Durandal / Eirik Shield / Guardian Deity Armor / Rage Choker V / Rage Choker IV / Echo Amulet

Byakuren:
Archar's Scroll / Golden Turtle Shell / Bodhisattva Robe / Squall Hairpin IV / Launch Earrings IV / Moonlight Ring

Alice:
Rainbow Greaves / Perseus' Shield / Armor of Creation / Yasakani no Magatama / Yata No Kagami / Bracelet of Reflection IV

Sanae:
Lunatic Morian / Large Dakimura / Philosopher's Robe / High Ribbon / Launch Earrings V / Cute Soul

(Youmu as commander to halve resistance for meltdown)

Despite all of that, during one of my attempts against him I got really pissed off because colosseo world's effect wore off in the middle of the heat without me noticing, and right on the same turn the bitch used elixir and restored himself completely.

As if it wasn't enough, on another of my attempts I managed to take enough of the boss' HP in order to cast Tsunami of Hades, but it got me suddenly while I was completely unprepared, so my whole party died in one hit without Alice having the chance to protect.

Seriously... this isn't fun, and the strategy/equippment I'm using apparently isn't good enough. Any good recommendations?

Starxsword · « **Reply #327 on:** October 06, 2012, 10:26:05 PM »

Why are you using Mokou as a primary damager dealer? She is not a good choice. If you can land lots of debuffs on Existence Hater, use Reisen. If not, use Youmu or Yuugi for damage.
In either case, I did not use anti healing against Existence hater, I just kill him normally.
Also, whoever is carry the Yata no Kagami WILL survive the ultimate. The Yata no Kagami has a hidden Star resistance vs Void. I did not have any trouble against it, because I was doing some farming on other stuff. My party was 90 to 99 at the time I think.

Serela · « **Reply #328 on:** October 06, 2012, 11:01:25 PM »

Kill the mouth that uses Elixir, and let the other live. Or Berserk them, which Reisen can take care of. If you're debuffing it, Reisen is definitely a great strat for awesome special slayer damage (It stacks with multiple debuffs). Definitely bring the Yata no Kagami on Alice, and once it reaches low health, start making sure to alternate London Doll on Sanae, and Little Legion. If Sanae makes it she can still use Source of Rains to full hp revive the party.

Also, Miracle of Otensui to full heal? That's kind of overkill :V Sanae's normal healing spellcards are plenty powerful with the healing tree maxed, and she just got a new one at lv65. If you were abusing Wind of Miracles stacking with the hp buff for insane hp increase I suppose, though...

Maiden Synnae ミ☆ · « **Reply #329 on:** October 07, 2012, 12:12:19 AM »

Well guys... in this case I'll have to grind my yuugi all the way until level 85 (she is still on 74) because she sucks without knockout in three steps.

I shall replace mokou with yuugi and sanae with reisen. I think Byakuren alone can take care of the healing, and sakuya will be kept because even though she gives crappy damage, if I take at least 3K with each hit of Full Moon Revenge then the total damage will be around 27K on 3 turns private square.