Author Topic: Adorable Game of Mafia (Everyone wins!)  (Read 100533 times)

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #510 on: August 08, 2012, 01:32:59 AM »
And would you still assume myself/PX given how yesterday played out?
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Shadoweh

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #511 on: August 08, 2012, 01:33:56 AM »
Particularly curious what huh what thinks of this chart, if it makes him think anything meaningful. (Not a trick question or anything, I promise)
But you don't want to know what the person who stares at votecounts thinks? Jerk.  (I was in the middle of making one of these too)
I do have a question relating to them. By studying the votecounts, and sheerly the votecounts, what's your opinion on Raitaki?

The idea that I would have found Pesco scary enough to kill Day 1 is  insulting. >_>


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Raitaki

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #512 on: August 08, 2012, 01:34:18 AM »
I also definitely want to give Rai another lookover given that he basically claimed he didn't have a VT PM and used this as an excuse to not vote Serela.
You mean the vs. Neko's claim thing?
That lasted like 30 minutes.
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #513 on: August 08, 2012, 01:40:23 AM »
@Kilga: Not too certain, since I haven't re-read yet and I'm pre-occupied at the moment. I don't think it's particularly unlikely, though, since after BT switched it would've been pretty hard to make the PX lynch actually happen. I wouldn't be surprised if there was scum on the PX wagon just to distance themself from Affinity's flip, regardless of PX's alignment.

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #514 on: August 08, 2012, 01:41:25 AM »
Shadowert: That's a hard question to answer because in what little re-reading I had been able to do before the day began (and what I've done since), part of it was looking through Raitaki's posts, so my judgment is already colored by that (not to mention we both know there's more to this sort of decision-making than that). To answer your question as best I can, being on Serela Day 1 and PX Day 2 suggests a townie.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Shadoweh

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #515 on: August 08, 2012, 01:55:47 AM »
Not your end-day only votecounts. The actual stream of consciousness movement votecounts. We don't know if PX is town or not so being on him could be just as guilty as being on Affinity. There are currently no flipped scum on Serela besides himself.

This might seem like a semantic question but I'm curious. Why did you color NNR as green but yourself as blue?


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #516 on: August 08, 2012, 01:59:48 AM »
I made myself blue because the chart was half for me and half for everyone else, so while I wanted to mark myself to myself I thought coloring myself green in a chart I intended to post would be uncouth.

Also blue is the best color.

NNR is green because he's town.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Shadoweh

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #517 on: August 08, 2012, 02:22:31 AM »
The answer to the other question is more pertinent to my interests, not just from the standpoint of questioning you. I simply find it curious that you would consider someone else unflipped more town then you. I consider it a curiousity for now.

Gutjerk reaction is to either assume Kilga/PX or bussing. I've been curious about Shadoweh bussing for a while but didn't have anything too concrete so never brought it up. It'd explain the Pesco kill if the kills aren't just RNG'd. I also definitely want to give Rai another lookover given that he basically claimed he didn't have a VT PM and used this as an excuse to not vote Serela.
So which are you assuming? A quick look over the votecount says that Kilga/PX from your standpoint is the only option besides bussing. Why did you make the distinction without saying which option you prefer?

Why does Kilgamayan bussing PX on Day 2 but not Serela on Day 1 make sense?


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #518 on: August 08, 2012, 02:26:50 AM »
The answer to your other question involves going back and checking all the votecounts throughout both days, which I don't have time for as I am presently preoccupied with rereading and writing something else. I am curious why you think I think NNR is townier than me, though. I know I'm town better than everyone else in the game, but the rest of the game has more reason to think NNR town than they do to think me town.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Shadoweh

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #519 on: August 08, 2012, 02:30:43 AM »
If you had doubts about him you would have put him in blue like yourself.
Here, this is the particular votecount area that I'm thinking about.
Vote Count: Karkat edition

NekoNekoRex (6): PX, Pesco, huh what, Omba, Serela, Raitaki
Serela (4): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, BT
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity

NekoNekoRex is at L-1!

You have ~2.5 hours remaining.  With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #520 on: August 08, 2012, 02:35:50 AM »
I think Kilga put his name in blue to identify he was, in fact, Kilga
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #521 on: August 08, 2012, 02:39:05 AM »
What? No I wouldn't. I explained why blue was reserved for me. I gave it to myself for reasons that are not applicable to NNR (or anyone else) because I and not NNR (or anyone else) have access to my role PM.

Looking back at when that vote count came and recall which vote of his put NNR there, I had brushed that vote aside as overeager newbie who thought he had caught something damning. I still believe that was the case for that vote. The sentiment behind the vote at least somewhat matches the style of play he's accustomed to, if those other games he's linked are any indication. Are you trying to suggest it was a failed attempt at some sort of bizarre scum-rushed lynch, given Serela was the vote right before his? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that can be gleaned from the L-1 vote for a townie in a vacuum.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #522 on: August 08, 2012, 02:42:36 AM »
Why did you make the distinction without saying which option you prefer?
Because I haven't re-read to figure this out yet? <_< When I say something is a GUTJERK REACTION it is a GUTJERK REACTION, not my final stance.

Why does Kilgamayan bussing PX on Day 2 but not Serela on Day 1 make sense?
PX lynch wasn't actually too likely to go through at that point.

Raitaki

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #523 on: August 08, 2012, 03:53:38 AM »
I'm pretty stumped right now. Don't really read anyone as scum ;_; Well except Omba, but since nobody counter-claimed I'd have to assume he's really town for now.

NNR is pretty much confirmed town by this point, as he was the first to claim VT and provide flavor that appears to be different from every other role's, then had his flavor approved by Pesco, the only flipped VT/CIC to this point. It's highly unlikely that NNR made up the flavor descriptor, and near impossible that he was able to obtain information about VT's flavor descriptors.

Also we only have 1 power role left. Things have stopped looking good for town.
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #524 on: August 08, 2012, 03:56:23 AM »
All right, so here's the deal.

Position: At least one of Shadoweh and huh what is scum.
Evidence: The combination of the nature of the setup, D1 being a scum lynch, the two NKs so far, and the black names in that vote tally


Disclaimer 1: I am fully aware that people may believe the following is applicable to myself as well.
Disclaimer 2: This whole post might ramble a bit, things are mostly not organized any really special way and it's been hard to stay this focused for this long.
Disclaimer 3: None of this is intended to insult anyone.

The combination of the nature of the setup and the D1 scum lynch tells me RNG kills are out. Even forgetting that they almost never happen anyway, Day 1 ended with scum a man down and one all-but-confirmed townie in NNR, and due to the open nature of the setup we already have a second such person in Omba. That's two unlynchable living players in two days; scum simply can't afford to NK willy-nilly because it greatly increases the risk of getting caught via PoE. (Also, I don't think a remaining scum team comprised of two non-Shadoweh non-HW black names would think to try RNGing anyway.)

Of particular note is the IHNN kill; with the unlynchables in play in addition to a few generically quality players still alive, there's no way in hell IHNN gets offed because he's a threat as a player. He wasn't at the top of many (if any) scum lists, but he wasn't as unlynchable as others and he was not the greatest case-maker. The conclusion is thus that scum figured out he was the rogue cop without the benefit of the roleclop. And, again, looking at that list, I don't see two non-Shadoweh non-HW black names reaching that conclusion with such confidence that they'd kill him.

Main case next post; it is super long and even I get bored reading it but it's one of those "multitude of lesser things" cases and I wanted to cover everything I can think of.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #525 on: August 08, 2012, 04:02:23 AM »
##Vote: Shadoweh :o

(Time to play to Shadoweh's scum meta of me!!!)

~The Pesco Kill~

Contrary to her statement in #511, I would be fully unsurprised by Shadoweh NKing Pesco N1. Shadoweh can play the logic game but she plays it less than, say, huh what or myself. She plays more of a feeling game, which can actually prey on the logic game if done well enough (as the logic game is abusable by opponents to a degree). Pesco, however, is the hardest player on MotK to bullshit. If there was anyone in this game that would catch onto Scum Shadoweh antics it would be him. Taking him out and playing the remaining players like violins was/is a very viable Scum Shadoweh strategy, given her playstyle and the playstyles of the remaining players allowed for it.

~"Curiosities"/Affinity case~

This part of Shadoweh's Serela-based assessment of why Omba was likely town is worth highlighting:

Omba is doing something really -silly-. Not scummy, silly. This is not how he talks about someone he knows is scum. This is how you talk about some townie who is doing a really funny thing you're watching.

Shadoweh has now not once but twice highlighted something and called it a "curiosity". In both cases it appears to be highlighted in an attempt to cast a negative light on the player in question and in both cases I don't see the argument. Seems very much like how Scum Shadoweh might talk about a townie who is doing a really funny thing.

The first "curiosity" was Affinity voting PX because PX said Affinity didn't try pushing the Omba lynch. I had no problem with Affinity's countervote here because I thought Affinity did more pushing of Omba than anything else on Day 1, and being attacked with a garbage cases is a legitimate reason for a countervote. Painting the vote as OMGUS was downright wrong. The next part criticized Affinity for not explaining why he wasn't voting Omba to begin with, with is an unfair criticism because Omba was at L-2 at the time so it should have been obvious why Affinity wasn't voting him. Then the switch off of PX to BT is brought up and said to "make no sense", which I agreed with at the time but ultimately didn't decide was scummy because I couldn't find the scum motivation behind it either. There's basically mention of why it's scummy, though, only that it makes no sense. There's a couple of questions tacked on that don't imply Affinity's actions are scummy by themselves. The addition to the Affinity case is effectively that he's being weird and therefore he's scummy.

The second curiosity just happened about ten posts ago and I think anyone that read my explanation of the blue (or even stopped to consider why the colorings would even matter that much) can see how well it fits the criteria of "some townie who is doing a really funny thing you're watching".

But speaking of the Affinity case, it's worth pointing out that it didn't appear to be very strong to begin with and she needed to be reminded Affinity existed before she even cast the vote (one would think a townie that had brutalized Serela would have spent some part of the night rereading how the wagons shook down and finding a reasonable suspect to open Day 2 with). She also doesn't push him at all the entire day until #443, which barely counts anyway. The entire Affinity "case" was Shadoweh coasting on D1 cred instead of trying to scumhunt.

~Serela The Ponymobile Except Not Serelly?~

This turned out to be less of a point than I originally imagined since my reread of the stuff surrounding it didn't match what I remembered, but it is worth noting that Shadoweh calls Serela the scum pony more than once (once D1, once D2) but still spends all of Day 2 looking at people that he avoided and/or people that avoided him. Not earth-shattering, but still an incongruity I wouldn't expect from a townie thought process. I'd have figured Town Shadoweh with a Serelapony mentality would have gone into Day 2 at least with a mind to also inspect the Serela wagon for weaker votes that could have been busses, if not investigating such things overnight. Especially given the first reference to Serelapony, in #207, unironically includes "scum are the best at catching other scum". (How true a sentiment, should Shadoweh flip scum.)

~Other Things~

I've noticed Shadoweh say a couple things that, like the whole "curiosities" bit, seem more oriented to convey a sense of negativity toward their target than actually argue the ideas. Examples:

You must have missed me and Kilga saying that a counterclaim, if it existed, was not worth revealing.

I'm not arguing that they should. If I didn't think he was faking I wouldn't still be pushing for his lynch. It doesn't make sense from the point of view of someone who could claim and be ~*~Confirmed Town~*~ that they'd be so worried about people not believing them. I also have no reason to trust that you and Kilga are acting in town's best interests.

Bolding mine. What is the purpose of this? If Pesco and I had simply said "A counterclaim is not worth revealing" and left it at that, then yes, the bolded is applicable. When we (or at least I) explained why it was not worth revealing, though? Town doesn't handwave "why"s on the grounds that the source(s) is/are not 100% reliable, it addresses what's wrong with the reasoning, which Shadoweh did not do here.

In reference to the Omba cases:

It seems like he's being used as a scapegoat for everyone's rage at opposing the scumwagon.

I've already brought this up in regards to my case, but it equally did not apply to huh what's case, at the very least. (Go back and reread #341 and find the part of his case that's based on "rage at opposing the scumwagon".) It's a needless blanket dismissal of all the Omba cases based on the construction of some of them (the argument could easily be made that it did apply to IHNN's vote and NNR's vote).

And just from today:

The idea that I would have found Pesco scary enough to kill Day 1 is insulting. >_>

I've already gone over why Scum Shadoweh killing Pesco N1 is a very possible course of action. This response to the idea when it was first proposed is designed to dissuade the idea on emotion more than on logic.

There is also the end of Day 2 stuff, where I honestly don't think Shadoweh seriously believes someone would receive town credit for hammering scum after the scum posted their fake claiming strategy and was probably arguing the point just to rile me up and disrupt the logic game further after the Omba case I felt really strongly about blew up so spectacularly (see earlier references to how the feelings came can abuse the logic game - this is one of those instances).

tl;dr there is no tl;dr to this case because it's a fuckton of little things, sorry. It is now past my bedtime so I will have to address the things that were addressed at me on Day 2 tomorrow (sorry!). Want to give town maximum time to digest all this.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #526 on: August 08, 2012, 04:11:22 AM »
The conclusion is thus that scum figured out he was the rogue cop without the benefit of the roleclop.

Propose we use this typo to refer to Serelapony for the rest of the game.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #527 on: August 08, 2012, 04:43:20 AM »
Actually before I go to bed there is one thing that was brought up against me that I should address, since it is relevant to my case.

Nitpick 2: #182 bugs me because it's a misrep and the Invasion callback is an appeal to... something, when the comparision didn't really apply. I feel like Omba's D1 wasn't actually awful enough to deserve the amount of tunneling Kilga had on him, and that the antagonisms points were exaggerated (see what I said about Invasion reference).

This was bad and a mistake on my part, one to which I will readily admit. At the time I only really half-read Omba's post because I was frustrated that I had to explain those concepts at all and then further frustrated that someone argued them because I think they should be one of the foundations of Mafia (somewhat in terms of gameplay, but mostly out of common courtesy that people should simply not actively be dicks to each other). It is true that Omba was not saying those things were good for town as my post implied they did, but good for him as an individual player.* So yes, this was a fuckup on my part, and I have no excuse for not reading it and responding to it with a clear mind.

*(Even ignoring the general common courtesy of not being dicks to each other, I would argue that any personal benefit he nets is outweighed by the damage done to his faction, because if town loses no individual townies lose more or less than other townies based on being more right or wrong. But such a discussion is better served for postgame.)
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Raitaki

  • 雷滝
Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #528 on: August 08, 2012, 04:55:08 AM »
Oh yeah, before we forgot Omba post the results of your last night's action. You've already claimed the last townie power role alive, it's unlikely you'll survive another night anyways.

Also HW why did you assume I claimed to have a power role?
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

Shadoweh

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #529 on: August 08, 2012, 04:59:56 AM »
 ::) Will address text wall later. Did you at least answer my question?


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Omba

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #530 on: August 08, 2012, 05:11:22 AM »
I'm pretty sure I don't want Kilga lynched anymore, got an explanation for a lot of things that bugged me about him.

Also Shadoweh #529 is telling me to vote her. I know that pattern, although not from you. :V
Shadoweh, better get to addressing it.

Raitaki: No result again. Doesn't matter anyway because the cop is dead. (There are no more roles with active abilities in the game, so I'm now in essence a VT).
Also, scum are generally given safeclaims (a claim that is guarenteed not to be in the game); in an open setup, that would be a VT one with corresponding original flavor.
NNR's likely town anyway because counter-wagon to flipped scum.

Mod: Can we use the same emoticons in multiple posts? (Mainly asking because otherwise we can only vote/unvote a limited number of times).

Shadoweh

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  • The STRONGEST Day Effect
Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #531 on: August 08, 2012, 05:23:56 AM »
My name is not Conqueror. I do actually try to get to things. (I'm still cooking though)
Kilga you dope, I kill the person I think is townest Day 1. Considering what I said about you, who do you think I would have killed?
And I see you did answer the question. I'm asking because I thought it looked strange and wanted a second opinion on it. Rereading the 'omg cats' logic you're probably right and he's probably town. I'm just getting flashbacks to this one time I dismissed a newbie's 'stupidity' and we lost because of it.


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Shadoweh

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  • The STRONGEST Day Effect
Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #532 on: August 08, 2012, 10:50:51 AM »
I'm suffering from some serious sleep deprivation so I apologize if this doesn't sound well thought out. I don't think there's enough time to wait to respond and go ahead with my own day plan. I shall accept your invitation to duel and determine your alignment through riposte.

I already addressed ~The Pesco Kill~ in my previous post. Your argument implies that you think you would be weaker to my feelings then Pesco would, is this correct? In you assertation that only I or huh what (or yourself) would think to use an RNG, why do you forget that PX exists? PX has been on every scumteam bar the last one that used RNG kills since I've been playing. There isn't much I can do to refute this since it's based around the theory that I'm a psychic vampire.

I will offer a counter-theory. IHNN could have been killed because he was pursuing scum. The fact that he was a cop could have been as lucky a shot as the Innocent Child.
~"Curiosities"/Affinity case~
Shadoweh has now not once but twice highlighted something and called it a "curiosity". In both cases it appears to be highlighted in an attempt to cast a negative light on the player in question and in both cases I don't see the argument. Seems very much like how Scum Shadoweh might talk about a townie who is doing a really funny thing.
For the record, it's highlighted because it's something I find suspicious but can't quite reason out why. Weird is a good word for it. I don't think I point out 'funny things townies do' in thread as scum.
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The first "curiosity" was Affinity voting PX because PX said Affinity didn't try pushing the Omba lynch. I had no problem with Affinity's countervote here because I thought Affinity did more pushing of Omba than anything else on Day 1, and being attacked with a garbage cases is a legitimate reason for a countervote. Painting the vote as OMGUS was downright wrong. The next part criticized Affinity for not explaining why he wasn't voting Omba to begin with, with is an unfair criticism because Omba was at L-2 at the time so it should have been obvious why Affinity wasn't voting him. Then the switch off of PX to BT is brought up and said to "make no sense", which I agreed with at the time but ultimately didn't decide was scummy because I couldn't find the scum motivation behind it either. There's basically mention of why it's scummy, though, only that it makes no sense. There's a couple of questions tacked on that don't imply Affinity's actions are scummy by themselves. The addition to the Affinity case is effectively that he's being weird and therefore he's scummy.
Though we know he was being legitimate now, I still think Affinity's vote was OMGUS based. It's easy for town to be over-defensive, especially when you're a power role. His entire case against PX was that Affinity was hunting legitimately so PX shouldn't have been voting him. He didn't go into what PX had done that was scummy other then this one act. If that's not OMGUS then what is exactly? My observation about how Affinity should have been voting Omba ..admittedly didn't take that into account. I didn't realize he would have been putting Omba at L-1 at the time. As for the third, you're repeating my own observation. I wasn't sure if it was scummy or not. But it was something strange enough for me to pursue. Ultimately I should have realized him not being here to claim at all would have made running PX up a better lynch regardless.

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The second curiosity just happened about ten posts ago and I think anyone that read my explanation of the blue (or even stopped to consider why the colorings would even matter that much) can see how well it fits the criteria of "some townie who is doing a really funny thing you're watching".
It's not a matter of amusement. I find it strange that you would go out of your way not to mark yourself as confirmed town but mark your near-100% town read as confirmed town. It's like you're downplaying yourself. Let me put it another way. Why aren't you obvtown? Your play is alot like when you were the tracker last game, but you're just some vanilla, so why does it feel like you've been holding back?

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But speaking of the Affinity case, it's worth pointing out that it didn't appear to be very strong to begin with and she needed to be reminded Affinity existed before she even cast the vote (one would think a townie that had brutalized Serela would have spent some part of the night rereading how the wagons shook down and finding a reasonable suspect to open Day 2 with). She also doesn't push him at all the entire day until #443, which barely counts anyway. The entire Affinity "case" was Shadoweh coasting on D1 cred instead of trying to scumhunt.
Is it really so hard to think I was hoping that maybe, just maybe, ramming a scum lynch and being obviously town for it might earn me a Night 1 kill? Do you know how absolutely maddening it is that they killed fucking Pesco instead? There is literally nothing I can do that comes off threatening. I've been refraining from commenting about my feelings this game. But I'm already getting tangental thinking about it. I did reread the wagons overnight though, and I'll explain my thoughts on that in the next paragraph. Affinity was someone I suspected in part because of his pursual of Omba to the exclusion of all else and because despite how you agree with it, his PX vote was really, really strange.

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~Serela The Ponymobile Except Not Serelly?~

This turned out to be less of a point than I originally imagined since my reread of the stuff surrounding it didn't match what I remembered, but it is worth noting that Shadoweh calls Serela the scum pony more than once (once D1, once D2) but still spends all of Day 2 looking at people that he avoided and/or people that avoided him. Not earth-shattering, but still an incongruity I wouldn't expect from a townie thought process. I'd have figured Town Shadoweh with a Serelapony mentality would have gone into Day 2 at least with a mind to also inspect the Serela wagon for weaker votes that could have been busses, if not investigating such things overnight. Especially given the first reference to Serelapony, in #207, unironically includes "scum are the best at catching other scum". (How true a sentiment, should Shadoweh flip scum.)
I spent the night looking over the Serela wagon to figure out who was at the rodeo, but.. well look at it from my perspective.
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Serela (7): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, BT, Pesco, Raitaki, Serela
The three original people who jumped Serela after my case came out various degrees of obvtown. Neko for the push, IHNN for Serela trying to push him like a donkey, and Raitaki for CATS. Pesco died. And I'm the town that sent that wagon off the cliff for you naysayers so suck it. Literally the only person on here to make sense as scum is the guy who made sure it happened in the end, so I thought perhaps it would be better to pursue off-wagon. On top of that, going into today, the scum aren't afraid to kill on-wagon. Either BT didn't think about it or the only scum on the wagon is Serela  and they froze the wagon to get us hunting for bussing scum that doesn't exist.

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~Other Things~ AKA sniping at Pesco
I am not sure how much clearer I can make this. I thought Pesco was scummy. I thought him borrowing you as credit in an argument with me was scummy. My statement at the time stands, I had no reason to assume either of you were thinking of the town instead of hoping we would lynch the cop for being Serela. Because even if I believed in my case I couldn't be sure I was -right- until the flip.

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In reference to the Omba cases:
Huh what's case on Omba in #341 is bad. Serela didn't have any irrational, unjustified hate of Omba. I'm surprised you didn't call this out considering your comment that Serela barely said two lines about Omba. Serela's best bet of survival was ignoring the Omba wagon and concentrating on getting the people on it to switch over to the guy he was immediately competing with, not to split voters who weren't taking the Serela option. Saying the dismissal was 'needless' when it was both true and correct is just denying what happened. It was the truth and I only regret that I didn't dismiss it hard enough.

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There is also the end of Day 2 stuff, where I honestly don't think Shadoweh seriously believes someone would receive town credit for hammering scum after the scum posted their fake claiming strategy and was probably arguing the point just to rile me up and disrupt the logic game further after the Omba case I felt really strongly about blew up so spectacularly (see earlier references to how the feelings came can abuse the logic game - this is one of those instances).
Riling up someone who is likely to write a giant wall post detailing why they hate you and want you to die is bad scum strategy. If you can explain how I benefit from making you want to vote for me I'll buy this as evidence.

This game is slowly running out of suspects. It's hard for me to suspect you after all this because of how eereily similar our thinking is. (Especially the part about who would kill IHNN. If it was for being a cop, I'd guess it was for the line about how Serela's claim turned him "from null-town to scum to me".) Just from the wagons you posted I surmise
PX / Kilga or huh what / BT or Kilga / BT or Kilga / huh what <--- This would be the worst one.
It's probably not BT / PX due to infighting or PX / huh what due to wagon location. I have doubts that it's BT at all, which makes your position as the only relatively unconfirmed person on PX as well as the only outlier vote on Day 1 suspect. I look forward to hearing your reply. Sincerely, I can write just as many words as you can.


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #533 on: August 08, 2012, 12:09:50 PM »
"sniping" sounds like a scum buzzword

Why is it wrong to challenge the towniness of players while sitting on a vote you're confident is on a scum player?
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #534 on: August 08, 2012, 12:56:55 PM »
you know if we're going to have a Shadoweh vs Huhwhat let me be the first to get on Huhwhat's case

##Vote: Huhwhat :smokedcheese:

Let's start with D1!

Huhwhat starts the say off by setting himself up to jump on me in an ironic fashion (#125)
He completely avoids talking about Serela. (This is important later)

Huhwhat gets on the ball Mid D1 by making a case on me in #201, awful by Huhwhat standards. He accuses me of voteparking on Serela and calls it oppurtunistic because I hadn't commented on it in a few pages (despite Serela being inactive the entire time)
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Also, when Raitaki improved himself to you, why did you immediately go for the rising wagon instead of attempting to re-read Omba and PX before voting, when they both previously irked you?
Why DID I go for the "rising wagon" I was the FIRST ONE TO VOTE ON, Huhwhat?

Later HW gives some reasons he's not voting Raitaki in #222 (which are all the reasons I unvoted him that the major case on me is about)
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I only have so many words. I didn't express disapproval with the Serela lynch, so I'm still fine wth it but think Rex is more likely to flip scum. Would switch to Serela for deadline though.
This is baffling considering he's not mentioned Serela up to this point, and leaves hin in a comfortable position of "I can be on any wagon I want"

...while defending Serela "for being Serela" a few posts later. (#226)

Once the claims are out HW bashes mine because it's easy to forge. He ontinues this line of thought for the rest of the day, despite VT claims being generally null and not worth the setup speculation. Of note he tries to convert Pesco using this reasoning but leaves it cold when Pesco gives a reasonable explanation refuting it.
He makes a quick hop on Serela when her claim is obviously fake but backs off a few posts later because "Serela doesn't breadcrumb" then goes back onto his "my PM is forged" stance.

His final D1 post of note is his #323
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Uh, not really. Serela's voteswitch tied the wagons and a few players on the Rex wagon (me, Omba) had expressed interest in lynching Serela earlier on, while there was not quite as much interest in NNR
Just a reminder, his first post on Serela was after my wagon was at 4 votes.


This is only D1, too. I don't think Serela's wagon had any bussers. Just scum trying REALLY HARD to get me lynched.
I'll make another post later when I get into D2 again.
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #535 on: August 08, 2012, 01:06:04 PM »
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I'll make another post later when I get into D2 again.
**which will probably not be for a good deal of time since I need sleep and I'l probably be busy when I wake up
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #536 on: August 08, 2012, 01:07:16 PM »
**which will probably not be for a good deal of time since I need sleep and I'll probably be busy when I wake up
:dealwithit:

b4 anyone complains
CHOO CHOO
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #537 on: August 08, 2012, 02:09:10 PM »
Not to defend huh what, but since a fair amount of NNR's case seems based around the alleged scant amount of time huh what spent talking about Serela, I will point out he did spend a paragraph of #163 talking about Serela.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kilgamayan

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #538 on: August 08, 2012, 02:10:23 PM »
Also I will address Shadowert's response to my case when I get home, I knew when I wrote alll that shit that the response was going tto be too large to address over the phone. :V
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

BT

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Re: Adorable Game of Mafia (Day 3 start!)
« Reply #539 on: August 08, 2012, 05:17:31 PM »
HW is referring to this:
Also, while in my role PM my role reads exactly how it was posted in the OP (for example if my role was Voyeur, I received a role PM stating I was "Voyeur" instead of "Watcher" or something). However, YOUR claim gave a role description that a) didn't match any of the posted roles and b) had nothing to do with actually describing the role aside from stating that you're a townie, the descriptor "Praline" seems to have been put there just to attempt to follow the cat/pet theme of the game >_>;
I moved Raitaki to the Town Corner for similar reasons to others, but this is a thing.
(1) He's not a PR. They're all either dead or Omba.
(2) He's not dead.
Assuming Town!Raitaki, a scumteam hunting for PRs would take this as a blatant PR claim. Hell, it's barely even bizarre because he's used to a different sort of games. Despite this, he wasn't NK'd. IHNN was NK'd instead. The Pesco NK is easier to fathom because it's Pesco, but... yeah.

It could be a set-up, but even when considering a deliberately faulty NK, (1) doesn't make sense.

Leaving this here for now for people to respond to and consider at their own pace. I've yet to parse the Gigantic Walls of Text, let alone take a good look at people for myself, so action shall wait.