Author Topic: Magical Lotus - Mahou Shoujou Byakuren - Episode 2, part 3 (Read 37385 times)

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #360 on:** July 19, 2012, 03:44:23 AM »

That's better than just sending it to another world, but if you ask me, that's crueler than killing it.

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #361 on:** July 19, 2012, 03:45:50 AM »

Well, Purvis seems so adamant about not killing it, that I figured I'd give him at least one option that isn't killing it.
Essentially, it's either that, or letting Kiku do what she wishes.

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #362 on:** July 19, 2012, 03:49:01 AM »

Okay, so then it's between killing it and trapping it alone in a dimentionally seperate prison for eternity.

My vote: killing it.

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #363 on:** July 19, 2012, 03:50:41 AM »

Well, if he's so inclined, he could develop a trick to reform it later, once the demons have all been bubbled.
Basically, the trick to reform them is developed after everything's remedied, we pop the bubbles one by one, and reform them the Nanoha way.

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #364 on:** July 19, 2012, 03:51:58 AM »

Doubt that'll work, but I'll go along with it if that's what the vote says. SHould I assume your vote's in favor of the prison, then?

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #365 on:** July 19, 2012, 03:54:22 AM »

Well, it's a temporary measure for the time being, since he's so adamant about not killing it, and I mostly just want it out of the picture so it can't cause anymore trouble.
This way we can make sure Marigold's okay. (You guys forget about her? I didn't.)
Plus, think about this, what's the punishment for criminals? Imprisonment, often for more than one's allotted lifespan. And often for one's entire lifespan.
This demon's little better than one.

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #366 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:05:21 AM »

I would say, if we're going to banish it, that we should go with the the idea I proposed for power sealing: Tie it to Kiku forgiving it. Eternal banishment wouldn't serve much purpose in rehabilitating it; it'd just be cruel and torturous. But if it has a way to get out, one that it can affect, but has no real control over, then the confinement serves a purpose.

Alternately, we could save it for when we're all rested up, and maybe have a better handle on what we can do and then release it and deal with it in a more positive fashion, if so desired.

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #367 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:07:17 AM »

I was thinking more along the lines of setting a specific lock on the prison.
It gets sealed in a dimensional bubble until it realizes it's error.
That may take days, weeks, years, perhaps even centuries, but the lock will have a way to open.
Essentially, it gets made to cool it's metaphorical heels until that time comes. When it does come is entirely dependent on batty itself.

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #368 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:20:13 AM »

Might work, but it's hard to do that in isolation.

Well, it depends on what we do to make the prison, I suppose. It might well be set up to provide something that can serve as teacher.

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #369 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:21:59 AM »

That could work.
Also, I've done most of my best thinking and introspection when I've sealed myself away from others.
So if a guy like me can do that, then batty here sure as hell can too.

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #370 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:52:11 AM »

Hanzo's version is better, I think. I still favor killing it, but as I said, if the vote says otherwise, I'll go along with it. But if we face it again, I reserve the right to say 'I told you so'.

Of course, this all assumes we can even do that in the first place. So:

>Would it be possible for us to encase the demon in a dimentionally seperate prison, one that only we and those we choose can enter and exit? And if so, would it be possible for us to tie the imprisonment to the demon's mind in such a way that the demon would be released if it genuinely changed? And if so, could this be done beyond any ability for the demon to trick it into falsely determining that such a change has occurred?

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #371 on:** July 19, 2012, 06:04:45 AM »

The thing about isolating yourself is that you can stop when you're done. Solitary confinement, on the other hand, is pretty maddening after away. Check out that video of the guy who spent a weekend stuck in an elevator, if you want an example.

But, I think we may be able to arrange for both, depending on what Sour tells us about difficulty.

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #372 on:** July 19, 2012, 06:17:17 AM »

That's why I specified the bit about allowing ourselve and those we choose to enter and leave.

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #373 on:** July 19, 2012, 06:19:53 AM »

That could work. It'd have to be just us for now though, since Lily's still young and impressionable, and Kiku's likely to slaughter it.
(Which I'm still not averse to.)

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #374 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:37:38 AM »

Well, if this doesn't work, we'll be back to that.

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #375 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:01:27 AM »

Well, this should work as a stopgap to put an end to this, and future matters.
Each demon we seal this way would have to be in their own separate bubble though, we don't want an Exdeath cropping up.
Think of it as putting him in an extended Time Out.

Oldmansour · « **Reply #376 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:14:35 AM »

Quote from: GuyYouMetOnline on July 19, 2012, 05:52:11 AM

>Would it be possible for us to encase the demon in a dimentionally seperate prison, one that only we and those we choose can enter and exit? And if so, would it be possible for us to tie the imprisonment to the demon's mind in such a way that the demon would be released if it genuinely changed? And if so, could this be done beyond any ability for the demon to trick it into falsely determining that such a change has occurred?

>In short: Yes.

>In order to imprison the demon in a dimension separate from this one, you would need to conceptualize and visualize somewhere to put it. A jail, an old race track, a love hotel, a closet, some form of enclosed space. If you do not, it could end up anywhere, including NOWHERE, so you need to put it SOMEWHERE. The thought of imprisoning a being, even an evil one, in some kind of endless black void is one you don't care to embrace, even if it's only temporary.
>Keying this seal to the demons own mindset is also possible, and you believe it would be impossible for it to deceive the seal you create. Sincerity and honesty are part of the core of your being, as much as your kindness, and your power reflects this. Any seal you create should only respond to sincerity and honesty, in kind. In setting this condition, this would also ensure the safety of your access, as well. If the demon's only method of 'escape' is through genuine reflection and atonement, it shouldn't be able to take advantage of the 'door' you'd be leaving yourself.

>If you wished to enter this prison yourself, you would need a 'key'. An object to connect to the demon's jail, a touchstone between this world and its dimensional prison. Ideally, this would be something connected to your prisoner's nature; in this case, the demon obviously has an affinity for water, and is a scaled reptile of sorts, so a vial or jar of water from the pool behind you would do nicely. All you would need is a container to put it in. It would also be possible create this key later.

>While the ability to do this you do possess, it is an order of magnitude beyond anything you've attempted so far. The energy required to create this seal would be large and, fatigued as you are, you don't think you alone would have enough energy to guarantee a successful seal. You will need to cooperate with at least one, possibly both, of your fellow Magical Girls, pool your energies, in order to ensure success.

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #377 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:18:49 AM »

Okay, so just get Lily and Kiku to help seal it up then. We can make the key later, after we've made sure Marigold's alright.
I'm thinking something at least somewhat comfortable to it, Like a terrarium. (Since Purvis clearly won't accept anything remotely painful to it. :V)
Even though my whole idea behind this is the concept of Naraka, the Buddhist Hells where one is reborn in to work off their Karma.

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #378 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:24:40 AM »

>Could the key be intangible? Such as Kiku's forgiveness or Lily correctly memorizing and reciting the Rubiyat of Omarr Khayyam?
>In regards, to us, where would it be? Where would we have to go to access it?

Oldmansour · « **Reply #379 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:34:05 AM »

Quote from: The Man From P.U.R.V.I.S. on July 20, 2012, 02:24:40 AM

>Could the key be intangible? Such as Kiku's forgiveness or Lily correctly memorizing and reciting the Rubiyat of Omarr Khayyam?
>In regards, to us, where would it be? Where would we have to go to access it?

>The key to the demon's release? It would have to be something possible. "The sun descending to earth and having a karaoke party with the skyscrapers of Mayoiga" would invalidate the seal. So long as the key has a chance of actually coming to pass, then yes.
>If you wished to enter the demon's prison, you could do so from anywhere. All you would need is your touchstone key.

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #380 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:39:00 AM »

(Admittedly, if said sun was a yatagarasu, it could theoretically do so by having said party with the occupants of said skyscrapers. But that's neither here nor there.)

Either way, let's see about setting the terms of it's release to it reforming. it's gotta have a reason to want freedom beyond merely having it.
We have to give it a reason for turning over a new leaf, and freedom is just the thing. We have to make it WANT to be free.

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #381 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:45:47 AM »

>Could something else use the touchstone?

Oldmansour · « **Reply #382 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:48:17 AM »

Quote from: The Man From P.U.R.V.I.S. on July 20, 2012, 02:45:47 AM

>Could something else use the touchstone?

>You could create the touchstone so that only you could use it. If you wished to give Lily or Chrysanthemum access to the demon's prison, they could make their own.

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #383 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:12:04 AM »

So I am thinking: Put in it a replica of the city. Seal it with Kiku's forgiveness, keys for only the three of ours use. See if we can make that city educational.

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #384 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:13:47 AM »

That could work, but...However, even if she forgives it, what's to say that it won't still be the same?
Better to seal it until it turns over a new leaf. It's not enough that only Kiku forgives it, it too must wish to be forgiven.

You yourself wanted to reform it, no? I'm simply offering a means to do so.

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #385 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:21:56 AM »

I would imagine that Kiku wouldn't forgive it prematurely, and she'd be the most suspicious of it. Moreso than we would be.

When it's reformed seems harder to "code", so to speak. It's more vague, and involves its own perceptions more.

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #386 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:24:24 AM »

Sour's already confirmed that we can tie the seal to its mind in that manner, though. It may be harder to 'code', as you say, Purvis, but we've already been told we can do it. So I'm with Hanzo on this one.

>"Lily, Kiku, I think I have a solution."
>"I am able to create a dimensionally-seperate prison for this creature. With fairly little effort, we could form keys that allow us free access to this prison, but for the demon it would be inescapable. What's more, I can tie the continued existence of this prison to the demon's own mind. If the demon remains as it is now, it would be trapped there for eternity, but if it changes, if it leaves behind its evil past and becomes something better, the prison would release it."
>"Kiku, allow me to stress that there is no way the demon could leave this prison without a genuine change. It would be released only if it truly deserved to be released, and I can form the prison such that it would be beyond all possibility of deceiving. If it does not change, as you predect, it will remain trapped there, imprisoned for eternity."
>"I can make this prison, but as I am weary from battle, we will need to pool our energies in order for me to do so."

Hanzo K. · « **Reply #387 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:25:03 AM »

Still, better safe than sorry. Once it's reformed by our standards, and is willing to seek forgiveness, it'll be free.
In other words, a two-layer lock. Both parties must be willing to do something.
Kiku will forgive it, and it will seek forgiveness. Those two things will release it. Hopefully as a Reformed Demon.

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #388 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:26:01 AM »

Works for me.

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #389 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:35:42 AM »

What are the standards we would set down?