Author Topic: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition  (Read 236508 times)

Sakurei

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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #720 on: October 31, 2012, 09:17:58 AM »
heh, I came to ask for the reimu last word, too. it's a pain and in the 20 attempts I've given it, I haven't managed yet.

another thing I just don't fucking get is kogasa's 2nd non. I know what to do, but I always end up getting hit because I was tapping too fast or too slow. is there some sort of help with the beats? what rhythm do I use? it keeps killing me (not that it's the only thing doing so, because last spell and first spell, but eh)

talking about the first spell: what can I do not to die with ReimuA? safespotting is for pussies, and I never got it anyway, because I usually ram kogasa :v tips, please.

okay, I know every hates it and it's a horrible spell, but if I want to NMNB stage 5, I need to know how to do varjia. What I currently do is "stream" it along the frame, but I keep getting laser'd.

Next one is Keine's last spell (the actual one). I don't get it. plainly as that. anything, please?

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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #721 on: October 31, 2012, 10:49:19 AM »
Keine's last spell? The lasers are static; the other bullets are aimed. Find a starting point that works, and stream very slowly. Like this.

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #722 on: October 31, 2012, 11:02:39 AM »
another thing I just don't fucking get is kogasa's 2nd non. I know what to do, but I always end up getting hit because I was tapping too fast or too slow. is there some sort of help with the beats?

There's probably not much anyone can tell you to not fuck this one up. It's really just a non-spell where you gotta practice until you get the rythm down.

Quote
safespotting is for pussies

Well you'll be spending time in close proximity to one if you do the safespot. And given that it's Kogasa that should be plenty of reason to use the safespot in the first place. Another good reason would be that even super players does it so if you feel like you're being a pansy for safespotting, just incorporate some milking to justify yourself. A third option would be to not worry about being a pussy and just use that safespot because it's the smart thing to do.

Capturing the card with ReimuA is definitely possible without the safespot but it's a very unreliable affair and you'll probably have to rely heavily on RNG to pull through with it at all. So safespot that bitch. In case you're stubborn and don't want to do that my strategy is to not touch the bullets, note that sometimes you can pass through the purple (i think) bullet walls to get closer to the center. Stay clear of the umbrellas. For safespotting, i usually end the preceding non-spell just after dodging a wave of bullets at the middle of the screen so i have good time to move into the safespot. It's pretty large and I got it down consistently very quickly but it might take some practice.

Once you've gotten the safespot down, you might wanna move onto a more advanced technique. The one where you make sure to move in and out of the safespot whenever she moves. This can be tricky so you might just wanna keep a finger on the bomb key to be ready to deathbomb if she moves in your direction but that doesn't happen that often.

Quote
okay, I know every hates it and it's a horrible spell, but if I want to NMNB stage 5, I need to know how to do varjia. What I currently do is "stream" it along the frame, but I keep getting laser'd.

Move faster and avoid getting hit by the bullets. That's really all i can say.

Quote
Next one is Keine's last spell (the actual one). I don't get it. plainly as that. anything, please?

I think shots are aimed at your position for every third shot, but i'm not sure on this one. I found it possible to capture consistently by moving a bit to the side, then waiting three shots, then moving a bit more etc. You'll likely need to memorize where the lasers are gonna appear.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 03:08:18 PM by Zengeku »

Sakurei

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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #723 on: October 31, 2012, 02:27:24 PM »
well, I figured it'd be something like that for Kogasa's 2nd non.

for Keine's last spell: I always noticed the lasers being static and the bullets being aimed, but I always messed up the streaming, thus me thinking I am missing something :V apparently, I was just being bad. that's entirely alright.

> move faster. I cannot move faster than unfocused speed. maybe I should be more compact, instead.

for Kogasa's first spell: I laughed. you're right, I'd be spending a lot of time near a pussy, but it feels a lot like cheating if I go for a perfect stage; that's the thing. of course I don't want to rely on RNG if I want to clear/perfect it, but man, that might just be me. I'll see what I can/will do. I'll call it now, though: the perfect kogasa iis probably with the safespot :'D

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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #724 on: October 31, 2012, 10:13:25 PM »
Reimu charges at you. Try your best to make her path as vertical or horizontal as possible, so it's easy to stream. Dealing with a diagonal path is ugly.

Thanks to her gapping I didn't even realize this. Thank you. 20 more tries and...

[attach=1]

Dunno if it was just luck, but the time I succeeded, I did it backwards, directing wave 1 up and wave 2 down in each round after the first.

TA-DA!

[attach=2]

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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #725 on: November 02, 2012, 08:45:48 PM »
Stupid Miko - I can time it out without any trouble, but my record with capturing it isn't so great. Here's a replay of how I've gotten it a couple times - is this the best way to do it, or is there an easier method?

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #726 on: November 03, 2012, 01:06:59 AM »
I made it to Radiant Treasure Gun  :o

...so yeah, biggest issue at the moment is resource collection in Stage 2. Specifically, is there an efficient route which starts the stage with just one red or green UFO (or one of each)?  I haven't managed to get that extra red UFO yet and am wondering how essential it is.

I've had trouble with the very last fairy wave before Ichirin, but now it seems like it can be streamed in one motion from the bottom.  And would the way I started Dipper Creeping Close lead to four-corners?

Cor

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #727 on: November 03, 2012, 04:05:17 AM »
There are a couple of things I would do differently. Ending stage 1 with two reds isn't all that difficult. If you don't, you can reach the same results with a red and green, but it's gonna be more difficult.

The last fairy wave before Ichirin can indeed be streamed in one motion.  The way you started the survival card was a bit odd to me. I doubt it's gonna help any, but I think my run had halfway decent stages 1-4. Don't mind the death on Kogasa's first nonspell, it never really happens. The safespot should always be used. It's really easy.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 04:07:24 AM by Coreven »

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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #728 on: November 03, 2012, 05:07:19 AM »
Stupid Miko - I can time it out without any trouble, but my record with capturing it isn't so great. Here's a replay of how I've gotten it a couple times - is this the best way to do it, or is there an easier method?
I can't watch your replay (or my own, for that matter) but I think I put together a pretty decent way of doing that spell a while ago. http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=18027

I think I just went in a big counterclockwise circle. Make sure to wait for Mamizou to bounce off the wall before approaching it yourself. Or something.
another thing I just don't fucking get is kogasa's 2nd non. I know what to do, but I always end up getting hit because I was tapping too fast or too slow. is there some sort of help with the beats? what rhythm do I use? it keeps killing me
Tap diagonally.

Goldom

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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #729 on: November 03, 2012, 05:25:20 AM »
Hm, pretty similar to what I was doing, though it looks like you don't have to cross over back through the homing cards as much, which is what I was doing to stay under her for longer. Thanks.

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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #730 on: November 04, 2012, 06:37:54 PM »
Recollection: Princess Undine on Lunatic - Satori's MarisaB 2nd spell (Touhou 11, Stage 4).


How're you meant to capture/time out that card?

The lasers are aimed, so they need to be streamed I guess, and streaming as little as possible is probably best,  but how on earth do you predicted which direction you're meant to stream the stuff before you get squashed against a wall with 1pixel's width space?    :wat:

I'd really like to know how you're meant to overcome it consistently. [NB: it's destroying my NB attempts, yay.  :ohdear:]
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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #731 on: November 04, 2012, 11:19:48 PM »
Going to do an SA lunatic clear with ReimuB. Are there any good survival-focused replays available for that shot-type and is there anything else I need to know?

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #732 on: November 05, 2012, 12:18:01 AM »
Any tips for Satori's version of Mercury Poison? I feel as though if I see it enough times, I'll figure out how to dodge it, but I'm too lazy to play through stage 4 practice seeing as how the rest of it is pretty much trivial, so tips on where to look on the screen/what to look for would be much appreciated.

I made it to Radiant Treasure Gun  :o

...so yeah, biggest issue at the moment is resource collection in Stage 2. Specifically, is there an efficient route which starts the stage with just one red or green UFO (or one of each)?  I haven't managed to get that extra red UFO yet and am wondering how essential it is.

I've had trouble with the very last fairy wave before Ichirin, but now it seems like it can be streamed in one motion from the bottom.  And would the way I started Dipper Creeping Close lead to four-corners?
To be completely honest, your UFO route is overall pretty bad. You should pretty much only be getting reds, and should be wasting as few UFOs as possible. Right now, you're mostly getting them haphazardly, which WILL make your life hell if you aren't very, very comfortable with Shou/Byakuren. As someone who has pretty bad dodging skills, let me tell you that I basically bombed every pattern Shou/Byakuren had in my 1cc, which is basically where most of my bombs went during the run. You're dying at RTG because you pretty much ran out of resources. You can go much farther with a better UFO route. Basically try to pick up reds whenever, and utilize rainbows sparingly. Greens only in stage 6 of course.

As for stage 2, there are two essentially "perfect" (meaning you either don't waste any UFOs or waste 1, I don't remember which) routes you can take through it, one with two reds from stage 1, and one with one red and one green from stage 1. I'm not too comfortable with the first, seeing as how I believe the timing for that is far too strict for my tastes, but the second one is what I used for my 1cc. I double checked just now, and the path does indeed work for SanaeA, and I'm thus guessing for basically any shot type, so it should be fine. It goes like this:
-For the opening bit, do it as normal, but don't pick up a UFO token. Instead, stick with the rainbow token so it stays onscreen longer, and when the yin yang orbs start spawning, pick up the blue one to summon a rainbow UFO and stream the bullets from the bottom of the screen while killing the UFO.
-From there, pick up your 3 red tokens and summon a red UFO for the next wave of yin yang orbs. Pick up your two red tokens from the UFO and the one that spawns from the fairies.
-Summon a red UFO from the fairy after the next wave of yin yang orbs, and pick up the red token from that and the fairy that comes after. This part is a bit tricky since your timing for picking up the token immediately before Kogasa midboss is very tight. You may need to bomb to get it, but it'll be fine regardless of whether you do bomb or don't. From my experience, you won't be really hindered in stage 3 because you were down a bomb or something. One tip is that the UFO stays on screen long enough that if you time it properly, you can finish off Kogasa's non-spell and use the screen clear to run up and grab the token while it's red. If you aren't fast enough or something, you can totally use a bomb to skip the card. That way you won't get mad because of clip deaths/Kogasa being mean and moving away from you. Make sure you bomb after the card starts though. Otherwise you won't do any damage.
-If you do bomb the non-spell, try not to bomb the spell. You only need to bomb 1 in order to finish off Kogasa midboss fast enough to get enough enemies to spawn for the next bit to fill up a UFO. Using both would be a waste.
-Pick up the red token that Kogasa drops to summon a UFO. If you can pick it up immediately, then that's great, but I often find that it's too dangerous to do so, so it's fine if you wait a wave if you bombed Kogasa midboss, or finished her off quickly. If you didn't, then your red UFO won't get enough items to fill up. If you don't get enough point items to fill it up, you can try to salvage it by using a yin yang orb from the next part, but don't let the red UFO escape.
-You might need to bomb the next bit with the yin yang orbs and the fairies. You need to keep shooting, but the screen can fill up with bullets fairly quickly.
-Pick up all red tokens during the next bit. A bomb will help, and might even be necessary. If you can, try to only use one bomb during the entire stage portion. It's totally doable, and you get an extra bomb to use against Kogasa. I used it on her first card, but if you're safe spotting it, then you can get a free pass through one of Kogasa's final cards.

The UFO routes for the next 3 stages are much more of an open affair. You'll probably have to make adjustments on the fly. There are two reasons why you probably want this particular route through stage 2. 1) You waste exactly 0 UFOs, and you'll end up with almost maxed out lives when you get to Kogasa. 2) You'll start with exactly one red UFO token for stage 3, which, as it turns out, is the best starting set up for using UFOs to skip some of the harder bits of the stage. Less headache.

Recollection: Princess Undine on Lunatic - Satori's MarisaB 2nd spell (Touhou 11, Stage 4).
IMO that card is RNG BS, but maybe there is a way to get through it consistently. It's constantly wrecking me too, so I decided to study it a bit. I played a practice stage and timed it out to study it, and here's what I think:
-The card's difficulty is in large part determined by Satori's movements, similar to Yamame's opener. If she decides to move down, you're screwed. If she moves up, then the card is trivial. Basically you want to look for the cases where she moves down.
-For the most part, your most difficult situation is caused by the combination of Satori moving in a disfavorable way before she starts firing the lasers. She moves either two or three times between every laser fire, and your worst case scenario is something where she moves to the left, then right, then down, and begins firing lasers. You'll have the slower bullets trapping you and the lasers closing in very quickly with little space to maneuver.
-For the most part, the best/easiest things to read to determine where to move are the big and white bullets. Relative to the center laser she fires, you will want to be on the side opposite of them if Satori is near the middle of the screen, and I believe it's easier to dodge them while on the same side as them if she is higher up on the screen.
-I did notice that the above method isn't really foolproof, in that you will still end up with tough situations to dodge regardless of which side of the lasers you are on, but you will never hit either a wall or an absolutely impossible situation to dodge, which I think is probably most important.
-When Satori is near the middle of the screen, you absolutely don't want to dodge the small bullets by staying close to the center laser of the array that she fires. In my case, I found that I often got clipped by those lasers because I had to contend with both the slower, small bullets, the faster bullets, and the lasers constantly tracking my location. Try to squeeze through the small bullets to the other side if you see the opportunity.

Honestly though, I just plain have a difficult time with the card. It's a crap shoot for me.

Going to do an SA lunatic clear with ReimuB. Are there any good survival-focused replays available for that shot-type and is there anything else I need to know?
I used Nindella's because it was the first one I saw :V.

ReimuB's shots are weak, the homing/piercing does pretty much nothing, and the bomb sucks. Don't DO make a plan around them (since the weaker bomb makes it harder to gain power and skip stuff). You WILL NOT be able to skip any cards with her bombs, and you'll likely have to use 2 to skip a card. If you do use it, you'll want to plan your uses, because like MarisaB, the bomb doesn't move with you and only covers a certain portion of the screen, and since bullet density is smallest near the bottom, you won't get much damage out of it. Your best card skip candidates are the ones where lots of bullets spawn more or less on top of the boss, like Okuu's first card. If you don't plan your bombs, think of it more as a life as opposed to a screen clearer. Small damage, small bullet clearing capabilities.

You'll want to get very accustomed to certain areas of the game. The last bit of stage 3 is, for me at least, especially harrowing because the lasers disappear while in the bomb's area of effect, and I use those to help judge where the ones that are coming at me are going to hit, which killed me many, many times. Other than that, nothing really comes to mind. It's just a hard shot type to 1cc with if you're coming off of shot types where bombs can really trivialize stages/bosses with little thought/planning (ReimuA and ReimuC).
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 01:47:42 AM by Tsym »

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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #733 on: November 05, 2012, 01:17:09 AM »
Hey!  You can 'skip' some things with ReimuB's bomb!  :derp:

Stage 4, 2nd midboss Orin, stream the Ying-yang orbs bullets from the bottom-middle to right underneath Orin, and just as Orin spawns her red shards press X and tada! 

Orin's 1st stage 5 Boss spell, lure fairies above Orin, then go right beneath her, bomb, and kill fairies as they walk into your bomb so that their suicide bullets are converted into your damaging bullets, can take out a massive massive chunk on her health!

ReimuB's bomb works wonders on Parsee's nons, if you're confident with regaining power back from stage 3 (the start ying-yangs, fairies and the purple ying-yangs afterward) then you may as well bomb them!  Just remember to plant them square on her right as they start for maximum duration and damage.

Planting a bomb on Satori during any of her attacks (except for her 3rd Suika attack) can do alot of damage:  Will pretty much skip nons if timed and place right, does alot of damage to terrifying hypnotism, a decent amount to Suika's 1st and quite a bit more to Suika's 2nd.  Just remember that placement is important as you want as many spawned bullets in it as possible to do tons of damage.

There're a few other places where Suika bombs can do significant damage if planned and placed correctly, but really it takes some preparation and good handling, as a panic-bomb it's not good, but when planned it can be one of the strongest bombs!
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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #734 on: November 05, 2012, 01:33:29 AM »
mm

Mmm, thanks for the help, nice to get advice from someone else trying to get past her, hehe.

For myself, Mercury Poison appears to be a pure dodging thing, but it's pretty damn hard to read, and seems to squash you if she goes down... I reckon it's sorta static though relative to her position, in the way that it's spawned, so practice will definitely help with it.   Something to note though is that the WR replay from UKT bombs it, and I don't think the bomb was for score, so.... yeah, it's a tricky thing I think.
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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #735 on: November 05, 2012, 01:59:29 AM »
Given that there are not a whole lot of areas in SA with enemies right on top of each other for extended periods, ReimuB's piercing obviously doesn't stand out like, say, MarisaA's does in UFO. It's simply not needed as much. A few areas where enemies are on top of each other, however, it actually is useful. She has an easier time surviving Stage 4 midboss-Orin without bombs than ReimuC does, in my experience. The green amulet streaming right after is also a bit less dense on average. If you like streaming the wisps right before Stage 5 midboss-Orin, she can kill the center orb at about the same time as ReimuA. Believe it or not, she can also plow straight through boss-Orin's first card at the bottom, something ReimuA can do but ReimuC can't (as far as I know, anyway). That's about it, though. :V

I've mentioned before that ReimuB works more like a weaker but slightly wider ReimuA - treat her like a forward-focus type and you'll do better. As for bombs, yeah, hers is pretty terrible, and the only skipping it'll allow you to do is when you time and position it right. Stage portions are more regulated, for instance you can time one during the laser grid before boss-Yuugi and attack a few orbs during the invincibility period to regain Power. Bosses are a different story, but cards like the Catwalk can still be skipped with one bomb (make sure you place it in the center!). Though at that point it sort of devolves into "learn the attacks so you don't have to bomb them", something that helps with every shot type but is more pronounced for ReimuB.

Fake edit: You shouldn't be needing to use bombs on Parsee and Satori's nonspells like Nindella said. Though his post reminded me that a well-placed bomb works wonders on Satori's second and third cards too.
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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #736 on: November 06, 2012, 01:01:51 AM »
There are a couple of things I would do differently. Ending stage 1 with two reds isn't all that difficult. If you don't, you can reach the same results with a red and green, but it's gonna be more difficult.
The issue for me is the third red UFO during Nazrin.  It always flies away before I can get it....

To be completely honest, your UFO route is overall pretty bad. You should pretty much only be getting reds, and should be wasting as few UFOs as possible. Right now, you're mostly getting them haphazardly, which WILL make your life hell if you aren't very, very comfortable with Shou/Byakuren. As someone who has pretty bad dodging skills, let me tell you that I basically bombed every pattern Shou/Byakuren had in my 1cc, which is basically where most of my bombs went during the run. You're dying at RTG because you pretty much ran out of resources. You can go much farther with a better UFO route. Basically try to pick up reds whenever, and utilize rainbows sparingly. Greens only in stage 6 of course.

As for stage 2, there are two essentially "perfect" (meaning you either don't waste any UFOs or waste 1, I don't remember which) routes you can take through it, one with two reds from stage 1, and one with one red and one green from stage 1. I'm not too comfortable with the first, seeing as how I believe the timing for that is far too strict for my tastes, but the second one is what I used for my 1cc. I double checked just now, and the path does indeed work for SanaeA, and I'm thus guessing for basically any shot type, so it should be fine.

...yeah.  Things keep going wrong, so I often end up just trying to get anything I can (especially for Stage 3's orb spam, Stage 4's flowers fairies, and other parts where you're "supposed" to summon).  Would you happen to have a replay/video of that run?

Cor

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #737 on: November 06, 2012, 01:40:11 AM »
There's a trick for that UFO token. You have to delay its color change during the second non or midboss spell for about half a second to a full second so it'll change path and not fly up during the midboss spell.

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #738 on: November 06, 2012, 06:14:21 AM »
The issue for me is the third red UFO during Nazrin.  It always flies away before I can get it....

...yeah.  Things keep going wrong, so I often end up just trying to get anything I can (especially for Stage 3's orb spam, Stage 4's flowers fairies, and other parts where you're "supposed" to summon).  Would you happen to have a replay/video of that run?
Let me just say right now that I believe that I may have overloaded my frustration inhibitors while testing this out.

Alright so first thing's first. The UFO route where you end stage 1 with 1 red and 1 green? Not good for any purely forward shooters. It's designed primarily around SanaeB's lower forward shot power and much wider spread, so it works much better with SanaeB and ReimuB. Perhaps MarisaB as well, but I haven't tried it with her, so I'm not sure.

For the other shot types though, grabbing 2 reds during stage one leads to a much, much more stress-free stage 2. You won't have to deal with a gigantic mess of tokens on the screen, and I found that I sometimes had to use a bomb to grab all the tokens in time. Managing them is also painful with a forward shot type. So don't do it. Just don't do it. Honestly, you'll become far more frustrated using this method than if you use the double red token method as you are liable to make more mistakes using the red/green method using a forward shot type. Anyway, that was half of my pain. Figuring this out took, far, far too many attempts than I care to say.

The second half was trying to figure out how to pick up the stupid red token during Nazrin. I didn't manage it until I realized that I was babysitting the token for too long, meaning that it changes color/leaves the screen at the wrong time, plus I don't think I captured Busy Rod once while trying to figure this out. I still can't always get it, but it's actually doable for me now, which is nice. The trick is basically as Coreven said, and you can roughly check to see if you did it correctly or not by looking at the location/color of the token at the beginning of Busy Rod. If it's moving downwards through the middle and is red, then you need to spend a little bit more time with the token to get it to work right. Basically you want to collect the token at the bottom left area of the screen when it's red. You can check really any good survival replay for this. Jaimers's, Cor's, whatever. Just search them up on gensokyo. Honestly I don't think the run I talked about should see the life of day after doing the red token method.

Cor

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #739 on: November 06, 2012, 06:22:27 AM »
Alright so first thing's first. The UFO route where you end stage 1 with 1 red and 1 green? Not good for any purely forward shooters. It's designed primarily around SanaeB's lower forward shot power and much wider spread, so it works much better with SanaeB and ReimuB. Perhaps MarisaB as well, but I haven't tried it with her, so I'm not sure.
I see. Double red from stage 1 is all well and good for ReimuB and MarisaB. Any shot except SanaeB. Stage 2 was giving me a lot of shit with SB, I could try that red + green method. Maybe I'll get somewhere. Don't even bother with double reds for her, you'll just pop a vein.

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #740 on: November 06, 2012, 06:36:31 AM »
I see. Double red from stage 1 is all well and good for ReimuB and MarisaB. Any shot except SanaeB. Stage 2 was giving me a lot of shit with SB, I could try that red + green method. Maybe I'll get somewhere. Don't even bother with double reds for her, you'll just pop a vein.
Really? I've seen double reds work just fine with SanaeB in stage 2. In fact, I believe that the red+green strategy is in the minority, and if red+red works with basically all shot types, then I see no reason to use red+green at all. The only reason I used it is because I planned out a UFO path by myself, and though I'd heard of the red+red path, I'd never bothered to learn the timing.

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Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #741 on: November 06, 2012, 09:26:30 AM »
I agree. I've only seriously used SanaeB for survival, but stage 2's stage portion became noticeably easier once I learned how to finish stage 1 with two reds (meanwhile, midboss Nazrin became harder, but that's a much earlier point in the game to restart on). I think I had a pretty good early-game SanaeB red UFO route in my first Lunatic 1cc if you feel like watching it.

By the way I keep track of the midboss Nazrin token's color by what it is during the bullet clear between her nonspells. If it's blue as it's moving diagonally up-left from the bottom center, good, so focus on defeating Nazrin as fast as possible. If it's going to turn green, stay near it a little longer then focus on Nazrin. If it's already beyond moving diagonally up-left, then you took too long on her first nonspell.

Cor

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #742 on: November 06, 2012, 10:45:54 AM »
Really? I've seen double reds work just fine with SanaeB in stage 2. In fact, I believe that the red+green strategy is in the minority, and if red+red works with basically all shot types, then I see no reason to use red+green at all. The only reason I used it is because I planned out a UFO path by myself, and though I'd heard of the red+red path, I'd never bothered to learn the timing.
Of course it's just my UFO route that fails, since I'm bad and all. The way I do it basically requires moderately precise and strong forward fire, which is possible with anybody but SanaeB. Spread splash damage ruins it all. I've tried to modify it in a few ways but I always end up messing something up, accidentally killing the UFO instead of filling it (which is sort of a problem in other places of the game as well, only with SanaeB), killing enemies too early, stuff like that. Midboss Nazrin is a chore as well, but it's a minor annoyance compared to the shit I have to go through in stage 2.
I think I had a pretty good early-game SanaeB red UFO route in my first Lunatic 1cc if you feel like watching it.
I guess I could learn something then, I'll take a look at it.

Ran-Rii

  • Regular at Patchouli's Library
  • In Patchouli's Library, reading books
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #743 on: November 06, 2012, 11:10:25 AM »
Just three questions:

1. Marisa. Marisa's Magic Sign: Milky Way in IN. It just seems that the bullets from the sides home in on you and do not home in at will, with me dodging bullets from up, left, right, [thankfully not the bottom also] but getting hit after dodging by a bullet with seemingly no homing

2. Reisen (?) [Boss of stage 5]. Her Invisible Full Moon. I have no idea how to dodge it besides memory. Is there some sort of tell-tale sign/signal/method of finding out where the disappeared bullets are? Because I have to keep hiding at the corner or hug bottom line just to give myself some sort of reaction time to the disappearing/re-appearing bullets.
Also, how to dodge that bullet criss-crossing illusion thingy. I tried countless times in practise mode, but only succeed when I deathbomb/bomb it in the real stage. Not that I do not like bombing, but I want to save it for accidents during Invisible Full Moon as I do not have a response to it yet other than "Hug bottom, pray."

3. Final boss of Stage 6. Esoterica: Astronomical Entombing. It downright sucks that I can do next to no damage to the boss, and the shots just get faster and faster and denser, and I am bad with peripheral vision, unable to dodge things coming from top, left and right at the same time. Tried getting out of the Entombing with ReimuA, but still getting owned.
And yeah, I don't wanna get rid of the familiars... but if it is the only way, just tell me upfront [yes I read the previous posts]

Note that I am so bad, all these are done on Normal. Only Normal.

Also, if anyone can help me with Cirno's Icicle Fall card, would be appriciated. [LOL I know, played for laughs]
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 11:50:37 AM by Ran »

I have no name

  • Dodge ALL the bullets
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #744 on: November 06, 2012, 04:09:59 PM »
Magic Milky Way is just dodging, there's no homing to it at all.  It's a tricky card though and when I was going for normal I bombed it.
Invisible Full Moon has a "cheat sheet".  You know the blue bullets?  I use those a sight to see where I should be.  There are 2 strategies, a dodge through one wave (stay next to the 5th blue bullet down) and a dodge through 0 wave (stay up close to Reisen at the 2nd bullet, though you do have to dodge the blues with this method).
Astronomical Entombing is another dodging card, and Reimu is very bad at destroying familiars so I would suggest staying focused and just dodging as best you can.

Reisen's 3rd spell you want to stay near the bottom and try to tackle it 1 set of bullets at a time.  When the next set is fired you want to be in the middle though.

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #745 on: November 06, 2012, 05:18:46 PM »
Ok so in my morning run of SA, I attempted a MarisaC SA 1cc, but I got completely stone walled when I saw this card for the first time (and another time in stage practice): Extending Arm. I'm not joking. This thing is wrecking me. The lasers move extremely fast to the point that I can't read them, especially since the second bunch of lasers come so quickly after the first. Is this thing static based on Satori so I can dodge it the same every time? Please tell me it is, because I can't even skip it with a bomb due to how MarisaC's bomb works. I pretty much just run out of power and die, which makes things so much worse for Kappa's Pororoca.

1. Marisa. Marisa's Magic Sign: Milky Way in IN.

2. Reisen (?) [Boss of stage 5]. Her Invisible Full Moon.
Also, how to dodge that bullet criss-crossing illusion thingy.

3. Final boss of Stage 6. Esoterica: Astronomical Entombing.

Also, if anyone can help me with Cirno's Icicle Fall card, would be appriciated. [LOL I know, played for laughs]
1. It's pretty much like IHNN said. Preeetty much just dodging. Honestly dodging it is something that you'll just have to get used to as you practice more. One piece of advice is to try to get a feel for the bullets that are fired vertically downward at you. That pattern feels like it's static (or something), in that you don't really need much concentration to dodge it. Focus instead on the bullets coming from the sides instead, because those are your main issue. It may feel like you're dying more on the big stars, but it's far more likely that you're just panicking in reaction to the small ones. Bomb it if you need to.

2. For Invisible Full Moon, the bullets fade in on the exact same location on the screen every time. If you look to the right of the screen, see the crescent moon? You want to be aligned around the middle/lower middle of it, vertically speaking. So basically when the bullets fade out, run to that location, and when they fade in, follow them down towards the bottom of the screen. You should only need to dodge like one or two waves of bullets before they fade out again. Rinse and repeat.
For Reisen's cris-crossing card (I'm assuming that's her first card), it's the same trick as for Invisible Full Moon, but harder. When the bullets fade out, they will appear in the exact same location every single wave. You should run to the middle every wave, and find this sort of rounded diamond area while the bullets are faded out, and dash into it. Then you'll have to dodge a wave of cris-crossing bullets before you the bullets fade out again. I did find another way to do it, which is much safer, but much slower. Basically you want to follow the waves of bullets diagonally towards the bottom from the middle of the screen. That way you'll only have to dodge one circle of bullets instead of two. I can show you pictures/you can look at a replay if you don't really get it. Right now I can't though.

3. It's pretty much dodging. If you aren't too good at dodging bullets coming at you from 180 degrees though, I would suggest moving to the sides and taking out one or two familiars on each side to reduce the bullets coming at you from the extreme ends. It should be too hard to do in the beginning portion of the card.

Icicle Fall: Basically Icicle Fall Easy's pattern with Cirno shooting out yellow bullets. You can either dodge the entire array around the middle of the screen on either the right or left side, or you can get up much closer to Cirno and avoid the need to dodge the icicles at all. If you do the latter method though, be advised that the yellow bullets are aimed and the speed that they are fired at is based on your distance from Cirno. It should pretty much be basic streaming anyway. Just be sure to tap quickly enough.

Oh

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #746 on: November 06, 2012, 06:06:27 PM »
How do I do IN Stage 4B Marisa's second non-spell? I get trapped and clipped too much.
Also, for SA, are Yuugi's lasers somewhat static?

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #747 on: November 06, 2012, 06:18:20 PM »
How do I do IN Stage 4B Marisa's second non-spell? I get trapped and clipped too much.

I'm pretty sure it's static so you can just memorize a path and follow it to capture it successfully.

Goldom

  • Whee
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #748 on: November 06, 2012, 07:27:18 PM »
Invisible Full Moon is totally possible to get just sitting along the bottom and micrododging. I know because I used to do this like an idiot, and don't recommend it. You may not have it open yet, but if you do (or can watch a YouTube of it), have a look at Last Word "Lunatic Red Eyes." That version is so fast and messy that it really shows off how you want to move up and down.

With Astronomical Entombing, I'll repeat what I learned on here recently: have a try of it with Marisa, and you can wipe out all the familiars really quickly. With Border or Scarlet teams though, your humans are too weak for this, and you'll take forever to try to kill them. Your best bet is to clear out one corner to give yourself a little room, then focus and kill Eirin as fast as possible. It's a really hard spell though - I can play most of the game on Lunatic, and I'll still fail Entombing on Easy pretty regularly with Border team,

Ran-Rii

  • Regular at Patchouli's Library
  • In Patchouli's Library, reading books
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #749 on: November 07, 2012, 01:02:36 AM »
Thanks for all the help, but yeah, Icicle Fall was played for laughs... whatever.

And yeah, Marisa 4b's second non-spell has a very little gap between each (seemingly) wall of stars after the scattered ones fly out, so practice that stage until you can manage it perfectly.

For Astronomical Entombing I opted for the easy way: GTFO the damned entombing, then go right into Eirin's face and shoot her with bullets until she dies. Anyways, the only thing to fear is the damned bubbles, and her Life Bar falls pretty quick if you can dodge the bubbles and maintain fire, which is possible for the border team. Of course, Marisa...
Fun Fact: Good luck timing it out, it is 99 seconds, and if I am not wrong, doesn't reduce.