Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition

[Tsym]

Any tips for midboss Orin's first non-spell in SA stage 5? It's one of those things that I feel as though I should be able to do consistently, but for some reason I always seem to pick the path that forces me to go up the wall in order to stay in a lane, and I die because I'm terrible at following very narrow lanes. I also can't seem to read the bullets fast enough to make a dodge between two of the bullets. Is the way the array fired aimed or something? Because in some replays some people manage to stay almost entirely in the middle, and I don't get how they do it.

Also for MarisaA Satori's first shot type specific spell card (I think it's Spring Kyoto Dolls?). I feel like there's a pattern to it, because the bullets seem lined up in a way that suggests it's similar to the way it's fired in PCB, but the bullets in the card are much faster (or something), and I find myself dodging through what seems to be a thick wall of bullets, then literally nothing comes my way for like another 5 seconds, then another wall comes flying at me.

And while I'm at it, a few other cards that are giving me trouble:
Young Demon Lord (Remi's first card) - I'm having trouble identifying where I can dodge through. I seem to always hit a white bullet.
Suwako's second survival card (the one with the red/white suns) - When should I move to the top of the screen and stream downward?
Koishi's second survival card - How in the world do you do the second phase? (The yellow part) I can barely dodge the pattern alone, not to mention Koishi's bullet explosion shenanigans.
VoWG - Seriously, any help would be appreciated for this one. I can take it down to about half health as ReimuB before my poor reflexes catches up with me and I need to bomb/die. I especially seem to die at waves where the blue/teal walls move at a diagonal path towards the center and catch me by surprise.

[Sungho]

Second phase of Koishi's second survival card?
Koishi moves to where you are at the end of the first phase, then goes to the upper left, then makes a U shape along the border.
I usually try to end the first phase on the upper left, then move to the upper middle, then dodge the rest of the phase there.
It still needs some practice, but the explosions will be less of a problem.

How do I do the blue/cyan bullet spam after Momiji on Stage 4 of th10 Lunatic without bombing?
And what's the difficulty order of the Lunatic on the Windows games?

[I have no name]

How do I do the blue/cyan bullet spam after Momiji on Stage 4 of th10 Lunatic without bombing?
And what's the difficulty order of the Lunatic on the Windows games?

You have 2 choices there, stall Momiji until the timer hits 12 to avoid having to cutback, or move diagonally up then straight down then towards the middle and hope there's a gap.  There's probably a more consistent method, but I don't know it.

That's subjective, I'd say PCB/IN>MoF>EoSD>SA>TD>UFO but a lot of people would put TD easier and MoF harder.

[Goldom]

Possessed by Phoenix part 2. I learned this one ages ago as simply timed streaming from bottom to top, but it's super picky, and I've never managed it as anyone but Yukari, since they hit the roof too soon.
So I just went to look at videos of it, and people are doing this looping motion around the screen, but when I try it I don't get the clear path they seem to. What am I aiming to do here exactly?

Edit: Okay, a dozen more tries and now I'm getting it pretty regularly. I miss that thousand graze though, but it saves a life, so...

[Sungho]

Is misdirecting Suwako's lasers in the first spellcard considered cheating?

Is there any trick to finding gaps in Hina's first spellcard? (Broken Amulet of Protection, or something like that)
Is there any easy way to dodge Nitori's Lunatic Midboss spellcard?

[I have no name]

Is misdirecting Suwako's lasers in the first spellcard considered cheating?

Is there any trick to finding gaps in Hina's first spellcard? (Broken Amulet of Protection, or something like that)
Is there any easy way to dodge Nitori's Lunatic Midboss spellcard?

It depends on your view of cheating, it's in the game so I say it's not but some people would view it as such.
Not really, you just have to read for them.
No.  That's one of the hardest cards in the game, and there is no real trick to it.

[Tsym]

Is misdirecting Suwako's lasers in the first spellcard considered cheating?

Is there any trick to finding gaps in Hina's first spellcard? (Broken Amulet of Protection, or something like that)
Is there any easy way to dodge Nitori's Lunatic Midboss spellcard?

Honestly Suwako's first card is pretty easy even if you don't misdirect it, so I don't think anyone will care. In fact, it only really matters to you whether you think that something is considered "cheating". I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Hina's first card is static based on her position. Or if it's not, then at least the first wave is static given that you can dodge it the same way every single time. The spot I use to dodge it is about 75% of the screen from the left. After that, you want to look for positions where the "clusters" of bullets intersect at maybe 1/3-1/4 of a distance above the bottom of the screen, and move under that spot. That's the least dense spot to dodge bullets from.

There isn't an "easy way" to dodge her midboss spell card (as in make it near trivial), but it might help to know that the white bullets are static based on her position, so what you want to do is find the biggest "diamond" that you can dodge the glowing bullets in, move there, and reposition when Nitori moves. Regardless, it's still a tough card as the glowing bullets are fired randomly and you might end up in a situation where the glowing bullets will give you a very difficult dodge just because of the RNG. If you're doing a 1cc, I suggest bombing it. The risk isn't worth it, and the entire section from the midboss to the boss can be memorized and done with no bombs most of the time, meaning that you'll almost always get up to 5 power by the boss.

[Ridley 64]

So I started UFO Lunatic a few days ago and, um.... yeah  :colonveeplusalpha:

1. How big/easy-to-use is the safespot in Parasol Star Memories?
2. What is the best method for Kogasa's last card?
3. IIRC, you should move left during Stage 4 Nueball's 3rd wave and right during the 4th.  Is there any more specific strategy for the 4th wave? I haven't been able to do it yet.
4. Is there a "simplest" way to handle Murasa's first non-spell? It's hit-or-miss for me at the moment.

(Using SanaeA/B)

[Zengeku]

1. It's quite easy to use actually. I do it all the time and it's very rare that I get hit by it. However, it's not an entirely mindless procedure. You'll want to try and predict where she'll move. If she's at the top of the screen then she'll most certainly move downwards when she's done shooting bullets so you'll want to move out of the way with her as she's done firing bullets.

This can be a hard tactic to remember so instead i'll advice being ready to bomb if she moves down while you're enjoying your safespot. Most of the time it won't be necessary as she'll be a good girl and just move about from side to side allowing you to take your position within the rather large safespot. It hardly required any practice for me to get into the safespot, I recall managing it the very first time I tried it and I've even been able to pull it at 90FPS and i'm really bad at precision at that speed so... it's large. Learn it.

2. Hmm... I'm probably not the best to offer advice here since she does throw some pretty mean waves in my direction which might be avoidable if you do some better positioning but what i know so far is that it's most ideal to stay under Kogasa as much as you can to deal the most damage.

You'll want to look at the vertical lines of amulets and position yourself in between two of those, then you'll want to look up and check if there's amulets coming your way, if yes: position yourself in a way so they won't hit you or get out of their way entirely. If no, stay where you are. Then look down to check if anything's coming your way from down there and react accordingly to that as well. This you'll want to do in less than a second. You have to split attention into three directions. Stuff coming from above and below you while not forgetting things coming from the side.

3. I'd just say practice. I have no recollection of what exactly it is I do on her. I just know that it's simple muscle memory to deal with the attack so just play until you develop a sense of how to do it and you likely won't fail.

4. It's a fixed pattern aimed at your position so you can dodge it basically the same way every time. It's not a terribly hard pattern but there might just be something about it that takes you out which i'm sure a bit more practice and paying attention to the fact that it's an aimed fixed pattern will fix.

- Good luck with the game.

[Cor]

Yeah, what he said. I doubt I'm eligible to advise, and I'm probably wrong, but I think Murasa's nons aren't aimed at your position, rather they're completely static (barring yellow bullets in the last non, which are random) relative to her position. It's the same attack each time, just from a different location. Maybe study some replays for these attacks you're asking about. That's my 2?.

[chum]

Murasa's nons are static, yes, 99% sure that they have nothing to do with your position. so all you need to do is memorize a path that you follow somewhere under Murasa every time. It's important to follow her around so you can dodge the pattern the same way all the time. I know there is a very simple way to do her second non (watch a replay)

My strategy for nueball is to hang around the middle and move left for waves 1 and 3, and right for waves 2 and 4. If this is not working for you, you're probably overdoing it, try not moving as far as you do. Sometimes you won't have to move at all... keep in mind that Nueball is not static and patterns will be slightly different every time, so at times you'll have to move all the way to the side. It should be pretty easy to follow the pattern and see how far you need to move.

[BT]

Murasa's nonspells are static according to her position, yes, but the problem unique to the first nonspell (and the third, I suppose) is that the leftovers from the prior wave stick around and WILL screw you over. That's probably what's making it hit-or-miss, since you have to improvise every time.

[Cor]

Oh, I never even noticed that in the first one, you just gotta keep going up and it's no problem. It becomes a problem in the third one, which is still a mystery to me.

[chum]

I've never heard about leftover bullets during the first non. Either way, it's very easy.

[BT]

The slower bullets from the first wave do not mesh well with the faster bullets from the second wave, and such. It caused me plenty of ire, too. It's kind of shocking that you didn't notice.

Hah, I bet if I look through the rage threads of ~the past~ I can find plenty of my posts that complain about this exactly.

[Zengeku]

I always thought they were aimed at your position. I guess that's just me mixing them up with Sinkable Vortex.

Still, first non is really easy. Just repeat the same dodge over and over again until it's over. Leftover bullets from previous waves do nothing to change this.

[RNG]

How should I deal with Parasol Star Memories as Sanae B? Even with spread it is an annoying card.

[Tsym]

3. IIRC, you should move left during Stage 4 Nueball's 3rd wave and right during the 4th.  Is there any more specific strategy for the 4th wave? I haven't been able to do it yet.

I posted a couple of pictures a while back for the last wave. It might help: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12762.msg895615.html#msg895615

How should I deal with Parasol Star Memories as Sanae B? Even with spread it is an annoying card.

Preferably bomb it. Otherwise it's pretty much a 50/50 chance to either become a relatively easy card or a very, very painful card depending on which direction Kogasa moves after the first wave. The fact that all the purple bullets force you towards the right doesn't help your chances when Kogasa moves to the left. If she moves to the right (and hopefully stays to the right), it isn't that tough of a capture at 4 power once you see it a few times and get used to the way the purple bullets are fired.

[Zil]

I believe unfocusing should make it fairly trivial. Unless I'm remembering wrong, it should be her easiest card with SanaeB. Where she happens to move doesn't make much difference in my opinion. With all the extra elbow room you have you can even just pass through the walls. You won't have any umbrellas to worry about. If you aren't killing the umbrellas then you're probably staying focused to much.

Sometimes you won't have to move at all... keep in mind that Nueball is not static and patterns will be slightly different every time, so at times you'll have to move all the way to the side. It should be pretty easy to follow the pattern and see how far you need to move.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying it's not static. She does rotate it a bit, but that's the extent of it. Any other variation in the pattern is purely the result of destroying some fairies before they shoot. In fact, Ridley, I would recommend finding a path without destroying any fairies. Whatever works in that case should always be reliable, regardless of how many you end up destroying.

Still, first non is really easy. Just repeat the same dodge over and over again until it's over. Leftover bullets from previous waves do nothing to change this.

They do though. It is an easy attack, though the same dodge won't always work, especially if she moves down, since the new bullets will reach you sooner. My advice for that one is to not try to memorize it. Just react to it naturally. Exploit the similarity of each wave with general familiarity rather than hard memorization.

Bleh. Been months since I played UFO though. If I said something sketchy then just ignore it.

[chum]

Maybe you're right about that, I never learned the exact cause of pattern differences, but I do have to play it a bit differently every time. Nevertheless, the left-right-left-right strategy always works unless you're not paying attention.

[ZellBell]

So, a normal player unlocked EoSD extra recently. Chaos ensures.  :V [The figures below do not take into account the sheer number of times I ragequitted in the first few seconds from messing up the fairies].

First run, dead on Patchouli.
Second run, made it to Flandre with three extra lives (!!) and promptly failed everything up to Four of a Kind. Featured two deaths on Laevatein before I decided trying to do it the straight way really wasn't worth it.
Third run, dead at Patchouli.
Fourth run, dead at Patc-

So, I'd just like some general combative strategies for every bunch of the goddamned fairies, the entire Patchy battle, and maybe the beginning of Flandre. [You should see the funny way I tried to do Cranberry Trap.  :colonveeplusalpha:]

Especially the fairies.

[Zil]

Maybe you're right about that, I never learned the exact cause of pattern differences, but I do have to play it a bit differently every time. Nevertheless, the left-right-left-right strategy always works unless you're not paying attention.

I just remembered, Nereid once made a video with two instances of it on top of each other. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Majt6HSXEWg&feature=plcp

So yeah, it's shifted over a bit, but the overall pattern is identical. From the looks of it though, surviving without destroying at least some of the fairies looks pretty tough. I think how it's likely to play out is the first few moments of each wave will be kinda random because you can't be sure how many shots the fairies will get in. The end of each wave should be basically the same every time though, seeing as the fairies in the back can't really be destroyed (unless MarisaA maybe?). And I agree about left-right-left-right being the best approach.

So, I'd just like some general combative strategies for every bunch of the goddamned fairies, the entire Patchy battle, and maybe the beginning of Flandre. [You should see the funny way I tried to do Cranberry Trap.  :colonveeplusalpha:]

Especially the fairies.

Well, most of the fairies are just streaming, so make sure you aren't flying around for no reason when you can just tap along the bottom. Royal Flare can be memorized, but Patchy's other two spells are harder than most of Flandre's stuff IMO, so you may end up bombing them regularly. They're pretty much just random without much of a trick, though there are a few aimed shots in the "five elements" thing. Flandre's early spells can also be memorized. I'm not sure how to describe them though. I can give you a link to a video in which I captured everything, in case that would help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVriGXk3lSQ

I think Sakurei also uploaded a perfect run of his own earlier in this thread if you want something else to look at. Cranberry Trap and Lava-whatever are both very easy once you memorize them, so watching how other people do them is a good idea. (And many of her later spells are also much easier when approached correctly, even if they may not be truly static.)

[chum]

What shot type are you using? I know Marisa A and maybe Reimu B can end Royal Flare before you have to dodge anything difficult. And, really, just do not use Reimu A for that stage at all.

Stay under patchy (slightly to the left/right of her main shot) for Silent Selene. Follow her around. Her main shot is static from her position. Philosopher's Stone is once again a very short card with the right shot-type, but my advice for it is to not sit at the bottom. start slightly below the middle of the screen and move towards the bottom slowly while dodging and it should be captured quickly. Keep in mind that the blue bullet shards are aimed, but they're not a problem with this strategy.

Fairies are streaming. You'll get those eventually without a problem.

[Sakurei]

I think my replay helps more than Zil's video :V who the fuck goes no focus in a stage that has never been cleared before :v the approchaes are also a little different. because if you play unfocused AND play as ReimuA, everything takes forever. I at least focus - something everyone does when going for first clears :v and I also don't get how the hell you can play ReimuA, seriously. what makes you do that, Zil? ReimuB is superior in every way possible.

my approach to royal flare is also very consistent and I pretty much never die to it. and you can also do a whole lot of damage to silent selene before you actually have to dodge anything difficult. it makes the spellcard last much shorter. and 5 element thing is...well. good luck :v it turned into an autobomb for me when I was trying to clear the stage for the first time. but it's shortlived! so with MarisaA and ReimuB you won't have to dodge it for too long.

for cranberry trap, you may actually want to watch Zil's replay. it demonstrates how to survive against it for a long time, while I just finished it off very quickly - which you might not be able to if Flandre moves around too much. but for me, that approach works pretty much all the time. haven't died to it since forever. Laevantein is 100% static. memorizing should help you survive it forever.

[Zil]

I think my replay helps more than Zil's video :V who the fuck goes no focus in a stage that has never been cleared before :v the approchaes are also a little different. because if you play unfocused AND play as ReimuA, everything takes forever. I at least focus - something everyone does when going for first clears :v and I also don't get how the hell you can play ReimuA, seriously. what makes you do that, Zil? ReimuB is superior in every way possible.

Focusing doesn't effect ReimuA's damage output, actually. And in any event, I think she's the best choice, especially for a first clear of the stage, because there are many spells where Flandre won't stay above you. Notably Starbow Break and Kagome Kagome, which I consider to be the hardest spells.

[Sakurei]

kagome kagome? yeah, it can become pretty difficult, but it can also turn into something super easy.

I think the claustophobis spell is harder than that, though. many stray bullets and little room to freely move can kill you quickly. I admit that Q.E.D doesn't really pose any danger if you've got the resources, though.

oh yeah, ATTWN can wall you if you have no lue what to do :v

yeah, you're right. I dunno what I was talking about. focusing with reimuA doesn't do shit to your damage output. but it still generally takes longer to defeat just about every spell in the game with her. the 2 seconds I need to move under Flan again when she's moved out of my wait don't make the spell last longer than it would with ReimuA. seriously, just no.

[I have no name]

I found ReimuA to be the hardest to clear with, MarisaA was by far the easiest (and was the first I used).  I've cleared with all of them, and MarisaA gave me the best results consistently across all skill levels I had playing the stage.  I remember trying ReimuA and getting owned by Cranberry Trap then decided "nope not worth any slight advantages" and went for Marisa.

[Byronyello]

Right then, how do I beat High Sensitivity Nazrin Pendulum? I can do the Lunatic version with relative ease, but this spell just kind of slams me in the side when I try to move out of the way.

[I have no name]

Right then, how do I beat High Sensitivity Nazrin Pendulum? I can do the Lunatic version with relative ease, but this spell just kind of slams me in the side when I try to move out of the way.

You memorize a path past the crystals for fire time and memorize where the gaps will be.
Or get lucky.
My capture here is some of both.

[Byronyello]

Thanks.
I think my capture here is a bit of both as well...
From the looks of your video, the rest of UFO looks absolutely hellish. Honestly, I don't know why I'm trying UFO's Hard before any of the others'.