Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition

[BT]

Huh.

Apparently Murasa can move down during her third spell, making it pretty much impossible.

How to avoid?

[Chuckolator]

How Earth in a Pot? I'm luring her to the left while destroying the top familiar and the two left of that one both times. Is there a better way of doing it?

[I have no name]

How Earth in a Pot? I'm luring her to the left while destroying the top familiar and the two left of that one both times. Is there a better way of doing it?

Use Youmu/Ghost Team.  So many familiars die the dodging is much easier.  For Border Team I just go straight Yukari and dodge in circles, no reall strategy.

Huh.

Apparently Murasa can move down during her third spell, making it pretty much impossible.

How to avoid?

Get lucky?

[Seppo Hovi]

You can mess around with the bottom familiars by sitting on them, Seiga.

[Star King]

Use Youmu/Ghost Team.  So many familiars die the dodging is much easier.

Marisa is better at destroying familiars than Youmu. Also helps a lot for Astronomical Entombing. In stage 6A Magic Team is actually not terrible for once.

[I have no name]

Marisa is better at destroying familiars than Youmu. Also helps a lot for Astronomical Entombing. In stage 6A Magic Team is actually not terrible for once.

Yes but I know Seiga is trying for a perfect 6A lunatic, Yuyuko moves slower than Alice and finishes off Eirin's 3rd spell much quicker than Magic Team.  Apollo 13 both teams are 2 waves, and Marisa and Youmu are both effective at Astronomical Entombing (though Malice-ing it is best).

[Chuckolator]

eh, I'd rather stick with border team. My capture rate on Earth in a Pot is a lot better now that it occurred to me there's no point shooting focused as the first familiar wave make the circle, 1 in 4 isn't bad. <_<

Thanks for the ideas anyways, I might have resorted to switching teams if it wasn't the first real challenge in the stage. <_<

What about the nonspell before Earth in a Pot? Sometimes I do it flawlessly, sometimes the last part of the purples hits me every time. It's clearly something that should be easily explained, anyone willing to say how exactly?

[crystalgreatsword]

Kanako's first spell on Normal. How to do?

[Elysia]

Kanako's first spell on Normal. How to do?

The easiest way is to dash to one side as the pillars are coming down to misdirect the amulets, stream back to the center, dash to the other side on the next wave, and repeat until it's captured.

It's hard to really explain it in a way that's easy to understand, so here is a video of me doing it.

[xForeverFanaticx]

I personally prefer streaming with very small taps, while staying close to the middle still. Stay at the very bottom of the screen, and I just go a certain small distance from the center each way. Basically what malkyrian is saying, but sized down very much? More efficient for ending the spell faster imo, but the distances from the center need to a certain judgement coming from some memorization of the reach of the lasers.

[Tsym]

Ok so after reviewing some replays and stuff, I have a few quite a few questions about SA:

1) In Yamame's opener, how do the red and blue bullets separate? I seem to collide with the second wave of blue bullets that come down rather easily because I can't seem to see them through the red ones. Also, in the rage thread, Fuunen mentioned that you can go over the red bullets if Yamame moves down as she fires. I think I know what Fuunen means, but can I see a replay/video to confirm?
2) For Yuugi's non-spells involving the lasers, I've seen a technique used in scoring replays where someone sits under Yuugi and manages to graze a ton of lasers, which seems rather safe from what I can tell in the replays. I can't seem to figure out how to do that for the blue waves though. Any advice? Or is it actually easier to dodge/bomb it normally?
3) So I've always known that the first bit with Orin in stage 4 is aimed, but it was easy enough to read and dodge in easier difficulties that I didn't really bother learning how it worked. It's gotten much harder on Lunatic, but I've seen some people do this thing where they move slightly to the right and basically dodge left and right. I'm not really sure why this works though. I think I can figure out how to properly do the move if I practice a bit more (it's pretty early in the stage anyway), but why it works still eludes me. How are those red bullets aimed?
4) Fuunen also mentioned that Terrifying Hypnotism is static, but I don't know if it's worth it to memorize it. (Also is it really static?)
5) Are the butterflies in Flying Insect's Nest (the spell after DBDB) completely aimed at your position? I get the feeling that some are aimed slightly the left/right as well, but I'm not completely sure.
6) In the opening part of stage 5, how do you stream the yin yang orbs at the beginning? This might seem like a silly question, but by the time I get to the right edge of the screen, I tend to take a while to get through the red bullets, and I can't get to the left side of the screen before I get completely overwhelmed and need to bomb.
7) Cat's Walk (or whatever it's Lunatic incarnation is): Do the waves of bullets point in roughly the same direction at each spawn point? The spell certainly seems rather random as to exactly where/which direction the bullets spawn, but I wonder if the same areas in the first wave are always "less dense" than where bullets tend to cross. I find myself bombing twice on this thing, and if I can get through more of the first wave before bombing, I think I can possibly reduce it to a one bomb spell (which would be helpful for me to unlock the stage for practice :V)
I'm not sure what the best strategy is for circling around Orin's last spell. I just don't think I understand the spell at all. I think part of the problem is that I have no idea how the bubble bullets spawn. Do they spawn after a certain timer or what?

[Karisa]

2) For Yuugi's non-spells involving the lasers, I've seen a technique used in scoring replays where someone sits under Yuugi and manages to graze a ton of lasers, which seems rather safe from what I can tell in the replays. I can't seem to figure out how to do that for the blue waves though. Any advice? Or is it actually easier to dodge/bomb it normally?

The lasers are static based on Yuugi's position (except for the red lasers in her midboss nonspell, which are aimed). And during the boss nonspell, Yuugi won't move between the red lasers and the next wave of blue lasers, so you can memorize a safespot that works for both waves and position yourself in it based on the red lasers.

[ARF]

3) So I've always known that the first bit with Orin in stage 4 is aimed, but it was easy enough to read and dodge in easier difficulties that I didn't really bother learning how it worked. It's gotten much harder on Lunatic, but I've seen some people do this thing where they move slightly to the right and basically dodge left and right. I'm not really sure why this works though. I think I can figure out how to properly do the move if I practice a bit more (it's pretty early in the stage anyway), but why it works still eludes me. How are those red bullets aimed?

You can also stream slowly from the bottom of the screen, it's pretty easy, but bombing after a few waves so that you get to kill all the spirits for some regained power is not a terrible thing.

[Zil]

3) So I've always known that the first bit with Orin in stage 4 is aimed

Thank you. I want to give you a hug, just for that.

In answer to your question, it seems to me like they fire three clusters toward you. One right at you, followed by one to your right, then the third to your left. They're also kind of inaccurate or something, so if you stream too quickly you can collide with one of the side waves. In my opinion, moving back and forth is the easiest way. Plain streaming takes more precise tapping so you don't move too fast or too slow, and depending on how far away she gets, the inaccuracy of the clusters can become more of a problem.

Terrifying Hypnotism, as I said earlier in the thread, can be done by casually gliding along through the lanes without dodging anything. Reimu's diagonal focused speed turns out to be perfect for it.

[ふねん1]

My responses in bold, again.

1) In Yamame's opener, how do the red and blue bullets separate? I seem to collide with the second wave of blue bullets that come down rather easily because I can't seem to see them through the red ones. Also, in the rage thread, Fuunen mentioned that you can go over the red bullets if Yamame moves down as she fires. I think I know what Fuunen means, but can I see a replay/video to confirm?
The entire thing is supposed to be aimed, including the blue bullets. From this, you can judge how far away any blue bullets should be from you at any given time. And here's that replay.
2) For Yuugi's non-spells involving the lasers, I've seen a technique used in scoring replays where someone sits under Yuugi and manages to graze a ton of lasers, which seems rather safe from what I can tell in the replays. I can't seem to figure out how to do that for the blue waves though. Any advice? Or is it actually easier to dodge/bomb it normally?
They're able to supergraze that because both waves are static. Even if you're going for a survival run, you can learn the lasers' positions and take it from there.
3) So I've always known that the first bit with Orin in stage 4 is aimed, but it was easy enough to read and dodge in easier difficulties that I didn't really bother learning how it worked. It's gotten much harder on Lunatic, but I've seen some people do this thing where they move slightly to the right and basically dodge left and right. I'm not really sure why this works though. I think I can figure out how to properly do the move if I practice a bit more (it's pretty early in the stage anyway), but why it works still eludes me. How are those red bullets aimed?
They're aimed only roughly at you. The most efficient way to dodge them is to make counterclockwise circles, like this.
4) Fuunen also mentioned that Terrifying Hypnotism is static, but I don't know if it's worth it to memorize it. (Also is it really static?)
Yes and yes (at least in the sense that you can manipulate the lasers the same way every time). The only time something wouldn't be worth memorizing is if it's well beneath your current level of dodging skill.
5) Are the butterflies in Flying Insect's Nest (the spell after DBDB) completely aimed at your position? I get the feeling that some are aimed slightly the left/right as well, but I'm not completely sure.
They are indeed aimed only roughly at you. You have to stream them on a larger scale, sort of like in a Cave game.
6) In the opening part of stage 5, how do you stream the yin yang orbs at the beginning? This might seem like a silly question, but by the time I get to the right edge of the screen, I tend to take a while to get through the red bullets, and I can't get to the left side of the screen before I get completely overwhelmed and need to bomb.
You're supposed to kill the orbs as fast as possible so that they don't overwhelm you. Start with the one on the left, then wait for the middle one to appear, then take out the rest in order. The whole sequence should look something like this.
7) Cat's Walk (or whatever it's Lunatic incarnation is): Do the waves of bullets point in roughly the same direction at each spawn point? The spell certainly seems rather random as to exactly where/which direction the bullets spawn, but I wonder if the same areas in the first wave are always "less dense" than where bullets tend to cross. I find myself bombing twice on this thing, and if I can get through more of the first wave before bombing, I think I can possibly reduce it to a one bomb spell (which would be helpful for me to unlock the stage for practice :V)
The bullets are random enough that there really isn't any area that's consistently less dense than the others. If you're going to bomb it, do so just before the waves reach you, that'll ensure you don't have to dodge anything. And just to make sure, you are following Orin as she's stepping around, correct?
I'm not sure what the best strategy is for circling around Orin's last spell. I just don't think I understand the spell at all. I think part of the problem is that I have no idea how the bubble bullets spawn. Do they spawn after a certain timer or what?
Start at the bottom, stream up once the fairies reach you, then go up to Orin's left. Wait a moment for the fairies to approach you again, then head right and use Orin's blue pellets to time when you circle back down. Odds are you'll have to do this twice, but the key for any time you're circling around is to make sure the fairies are above Orin before going down.

Oh, and my name only has one "u" in it. :V

[Esper]

I thought Cat's Walk had aimed bullet patterns. I.E. if you aren't going for a capture, you can just stream left and right and time it out.

[chirpy13]

Happy birthday Esu!

They're aimed only roughly at you. The most efficient way to dodge them is to make counterclockwise circles, like this.

Not so.  There's bullets aimed at you, with some aimed slightly away from you.  You can easily stream it by making one small tap every two waves, like so.

[Esper]

Happy birthday Esu!

Not so.  There's bullets aimed at you, with some aimed slightly away from you.  You can easily stream it by making one small tap every two waves, like so.

1. Thanks!
2. Really? There are bullets that aim away from you? Wow, ZUN really decided to make Orin impossible to cheese, didn't he? (I mean besides her second nonspell but still) Thought you were talking about Cat's Walk. But still, really? I did not know you could do that.

[Nindella]

Not so.  There's bullets aimed at you, with some aimed slightly away from you.  You can easily stream it by making one small tap every two waves, like so.

O_O

I'm going to do this forever from now on.

[Tsym]

Wow thanks for the replies everyone! Stage 4 at least feels more doable now that the opening part can be easily done and I know how to move for Satori's spells.

I do have one more question though that I remembered while going through stage 3: How are the big white bullets that Yuugi shoots after her midboss appearance aimed? I tend to freak out when having to deal with both the lasers and the bullets at the same time, and more often than not I collide into one or the other.

A few more targeted comments:
@Ace: Happy birthday! :toot:
@Chirpy13: Honestly, seeing that you can do it with minimal movement makes me embarrassed remembering how I was more or less flailing about during that part. Kind of like when I learned that Yukari's/Ran's non-spells are essentially all aimed at you.
@Zil: *Hugs*
@Funen: Noted for future reference 

[ふねん1]

They're aimed around you. The key to the laser grid is making sure you don't move horizontally that much at all, or if you do, make sure Yuugi's not firing any more when you move.

[crystalgreatsword]

So. EoSD Normal with MarisaA.

1. Extreme Color Typhoon. It's not a particularly hard spell card, but it always sneaks up on me. If anyone's got a good strategy for capturing it, I'd be grateful.
2. Wood Sign "Sylphae Horn" (I think that's what its called) Never been able to figure it out.
3. Wood and Fire Sign "Forest Blaze". Fire bullets are easy to dodge, but its the little shard bullets that get me.
4. Dark Sign "Scarlet Netherworld". The little trail effect that the bullets have mess me up. It helps if I squint but I don't think I've ever captured it.
5. Red Magic. AFGFFAFAHGHS. Hate this card.

Thanks in advance.

[Star King]

So. EoSD Normal with MarisaA.

1. Extreme Color Typhoon. It's not a particularly hard spell card, but it always sneaks up on me. If anyone's got a good strategy for capturing it, I'd be grateful.
2. Wood Sign "Sylphae Horn" (I think that's what its called) Never been able to figure it out.
3. Wood and Fire Sign "Forest Blaze". Fire bullets are easy to dodge, but its the little shard bullets that get me.
4. Dark Sign "Scarlet Netherworld". The little trail effect that the bullets have mess me up. It helps if I squint but I don't think I've ever captured it.
5. Red Magic. AFGFFAFAHGHS. Hate this card.

Thanks in advance.

Scarlet Netherworld - the bullets of the same wave follow each other's paths, so if you dodge the first few bullets of a wave, stand still and you'll dodge them all. What I do is look up and move in one of the large areas where the vertical moving bullets won't be, then find a safespot in the criss-crossing bullets.

I don't really know what to say for the others, most of those are pure dodging. That's the thing about EoSD spellcards, compared to the later Touhou games it's less about knowing tricks and more about pure dodging (makes it more fun if you ask me ). I guess I'll say for Extreme Color Typhoon, Sylphae Horn, and Forest Blaze, try to dodge mostly vertically and try not to get pushed in the corners if you can. For Red Magic, after you die or bomb remember to stand right in front of Remilia while you're still invincible. You'll eat bubble bullets that way, and they won't leave behind their trail of red bullets.

[Elysia]

Anyone know how to do Water Pressure "Breaking Critical Point", aka Mikoto's third card on Lunatic? I have absolutely no idea where to even begin approaching this thing, it is completely incomprehensible to me.

[Oh]

So. EoSD Normal with MarisaA.

1. Extreme Color Typhoon. It's not a particularly hard spell card, but it always sneaks up on me. If anyone's got a good strategy for capturing it, I'd be grateful.
2. Wood Sign "Sylphae Horn" (I think that's what its called) Never been able to figure it out.
3. Wood and Fire Sign "Forest Blaze". Fire bullets are easy to dodge, but its the little shard bullets that get me.
4. Dark Sign "Scarlet Netherworld". The little trail effect that the bullets have mess me up. It helps if I squint but I don't think I've ever captured it.
5. Red Magic. AFGFFAFAHGHS. Hate this card.

Thanks in advance.

The first 4 are mostly vertical dodging and not getting pushed to one side.
Red magic you have to sort of read ahead.

By the way, have you patched vsync yet? EoSD and PCB's input delay makes them unplayable.

[Kaze_Senshi]

So. EoSD Normal with MarisaA.
3. Wood and Fire Sign "Forest Blaze". Fire bullets are easy to dodge, but its the little shard bullets that get me.

How about to start going to the right  side of screen, since the shard bullets went from this side, you can walk to the left when you feel that they are trapping you.

[xForeverFanaticx]

fadsfhajfhlfahjdf dammit. *THIS* close to 1CCing TD Hard with Sanae :C

Could anybody give me a few tips on stages 4/5/6? Spellcard-wise, only stage 6, cuz the other 2 I know already, but really I'd like a bit of help planning out trances :\

[Tsym]

fadsfhajfhlfahjdf dammit. *THIS* close to 1CCing TD Hard with Sanae :C

Could anybody give me a few tips on stages 4/5/6? Spellcard-wise, only stage 6, cuz the other 2 I know already, but really I'd like a bit of help planning out trances :\

I'm in a bit of a rush, but I actually made a list of trance locations when I was planning out a TD run. It's kind of rough, but it might help. Just note that the format is Life spirits/Bomb spirits.

Stage 4:
Trance refill at beginning
From small fairies: 0/3
From big fairies after a few waves: 2/2 <- Trance here or after Seiga. Either is fine.
Midboss Seiga spell card: 2/2
Trance refill
From fairies at end: 2/2 <- Trance here

Seiga:
After first spell card: 1/1
After second spell card: 1/1

Total, no trance: 8/11
Normal playthrough, with trance: 12/15 (possibly more bombs from small fairies?)

Stage 5:
Trance refill
Fairies after opener: 2/4 <- Trance
Most likely can?t trance refill, could be barely possible
Fairies after: 2/4
Midboss Tojiko spell card: 2/2
Trance refill possible?
6 fairies: 1/5 <- Trance after killing all/most of them, should carry over into the next batch
7 fairies: 0/6??? (don?t know what the middle has)
 
Futo:
After first spell card: 1/1
After second spell card: 1/1
After third spell card: 1/1

Total: 10?/24
Normal playthrough: 13/39

Stage 6:
Trance refill
Bomb fairies: 0/14? (estimate) [average spirits gathered: 6] <- Trance here unless you just need a few more until your next life
Life fairies: 4/0? (estimate)

Miko:
After first: 1/1
After second: 1/1
After third: 1/1
After fourth: 1/1
After fifth: 1/1
After sixth: 1/1

Total: 10/20 (Maximum, most likely won?t get all bomb/life ones)
Average get: 10/12
Normal playthrough: 10/18

[nicholashin]

I want to perfect MoF Easy, but Kanako's last three cards are great hurdle.
Sth Hunting Ritual is not ramming a ball/sphere while moving carefully, right?
Mountain of Faith is read and dodge that can be helped through practice.
But I simply don't understand Miracle of Otensui. The bullet aiming at me is crazily dense and the fact that arrowheads come from both sides doesn't help.
No matter which side I try to misdirect those aiming bullets, the arrowhead always manage to kill me.  :ohdear:
-------------
And I have started MoF Hard as well. How to Minoriko's first card?

[Tsym]

I want to perfect MoF Easy, but Kanako's last three cards are great hurdle.
Sth Hunting Ritual is not ramming a ball/sphere while moving carefully, right?
Mountain of Faith is read and dodge that can be helped through practice.
But I simply don't understand Miracle of Otensui. The bullet aiming at me is crazily dense and the fact that arrowheads come from both sides doesn't help.
No matter which side I try to misdirect those aiming bullets, the arrowhead always manage to kill me.  :ohdear:
-------------
And I have started MoF Hard as well. How to Minoriko's first card?

Hunting Ritual is essentially read and dodge. Stay in the middle and stream towards the corners, then dash up to evade the last bit. Repeat.
Mirace of Otensui is a tricky card on easy. Basically it's a matter of timing. You want to dash up and redirect the dense streams when the arrowhead streams have just finished rotating past the middle. That will make it so you don't have to dodge through the arrowheads and the diamond bullets when you come back around. I think the easiest way to keep this rhythm is to start from the corner and slowly move towards the middle. IIRC, that makes it so you pass through the middle right as the arrowhead streams converge on the middle. After you go through the arrowheads, then dash up diagonally and repeat.

Edit: Oh and Minoriko's first card is basically the same as on Normal, but with aimed bullets at you. I do it by starting in the middle, slowly streaming towards the ends, then moving through this safespot that always occurs near the right side of the screen. The first wave fired is always the same. Then restream it back to the left, and find a hole to your left. Run through that, then repeat. It shouldn't take more than 2 or 3 restreams before the card is cleared.