Shadows Over Fuyuki - Fate/Zero season 2!

[♛ Apher-Forte]

Some people are born with a talent they can do without, but Kiritsugu lived his life up to the moment he wiped off his last trace of humanity with it... this episode...
made me cry like a bitch when he resolved to do the impossible.
when he had to count down the moments when he had to do the utterly undeniable
when he had to deny his crimes and yet admit he did it only because he had to
his pain resonates like no other anime this season.
wow...
seriously.

[Hello Purvis]

The flashback episodes kind of annoyed me, and I'm glad I've been watching this on a binge rather than a week at a time.  While Kiristugu's past is interesting, it seems like a poor idea to just drop it all at once over two episodes. I feel it ought to have been interspersed here and there, in little few minute scenes, as we proceeded onward.

Also, Lancer's

Spoiler:

death should be hammy; he's a classic Irish hero, and that's how they go down, with curses and shit.

I absolutely loved it.

As for Chaore's comments on Berserker's master being able to control berserker, I suspect part of it is that Kiraya's kind of a berserker type himself. He completely gave up anything resembling safety or longevity to get this one goal. My suspicion is that this gives him kind of a kinship with Berserker, and he's able to exploit it to a degree. Master and Servant synergy is kind of a big theme of the series, so I am seeing it as a manifestation of that. Hell, at this point, does Berserker even care about the grail? Did he ever care? Did OG Berserker?

In regards to the new episode, I am amused about Maiya

Spoiler:

calling her own death. The only way it could have been more hilarious would be if she were black, or ethnically African. Also, how did Rider find out about the mansion? And how did Sabre and Kiritsugu find the Archibald hideout? Was this revealed beforehand and I forgot it?

Finally, Gilgamesh status: Still The Best. Watching him relax around Kirei and act casually rather than regally haughty is always amusing.

[♛ Apher-Forte]

Spoiler:

It is Kiritsugu, he is a mage killer, I doubt there are things he doesn't know about the targets he is gonna kill. He also seems adept at appearing at places you least expected.
Maiya's death almost pained me. Also this episode Kariya... I guess this is the same feeling as being forced to BEEP your little sister and subsequently consume her BEEP... goddamn it Zouken you monster, how did you even kept this away? what did you do to that girl at such a tender young age?! Only monsters do this and I wish Zouken to really really soon please die a long torturous death in the hands of Berserker.

... my only question might be... why not kill him with Berserker right now? Surely he can now that Zouken given him that.... that thing.
Berserker should take tender loving pleasure with his every orifice...

[Hello Purvis]

Probably because Berserker has no shits to give about Zouken, and Zouken's probably careful enough to stay out of its way.

[Palewolf]

... my only question might be... why not kill him with Berserker right now? Surely he can now that Zouken given him that.... that thing.
Berserker should take tender loving pleasure with his every orifice...

Well he is full of Zouken's crest worms so he could at best hope for a double knockout i think, which would be all good and stuff but,
(Kinda FS/N Heaven's Feel spoiler)

Spoiler:

since Kariya probably knows a bit about Zouken's magic he might know how hard he is to kill, transferring his soul betwen worms and all that.

[Hello Purvis]

Spoiler:

Kariya: *snaps, kills the one person he loved. Flips his shit.*
Gil: Laaaaaaame.

Oh Gilgamesh, you will never stop being the best.

Also, is it me, or has Waver largely given up trying to plan or lead by this point. He's pretty much telling Rider to do whatever he feels like.

[♛ Apher-Forte]

Because Rider knows better about battles than this good for nothing boy does. Until Waver hardens up (his soul and grit, not his you know what) he will be a boy, Rider can only accommodate his whims so far before a real man needs to take charge for the heavy shit.
I don't think Waver plans this far out to drag on, and he certainly doesn't have the best goal at heart to strive for. Kiritsugu for example, is struggling an impossible dream, what does he had? Other than not being bullied because he looks and acts like a girl. (not that it is a bad thing if the trap doujins have something to say)

STILL NO BERSERKER VS SABER in a full out battle/ whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Moerin]

Okays, now that everyone who hadn't already read the novel knows

Spoiler:

who Berserker really is...

...Hands up who hadn't guessed it already?

[♛ Apher-Forte]

I was under the impression it was The Black Knight himself.
as in that french bastard, not who I now found it was.

[Hello Purvis]

Yeah, that was one of my guesses, along with

Spoiler:

Mordred and the comedy option of Ivar the Boneless

Kinda disappointed; I was hoping for the first of those other guesses.

Also: Gil continues to be the best. It's interesting how he had largely had good things to say about Rider. I am also very amused by Rider's proposal to him.

[Chaore]

Finally caught up again.

Spoiler:

I am so glad the Rider fight went exactly how I expected it to. Oh my god yes. Even better, even. He just. YES. DESTROY RIDER'S HOPES AND DREAMS GILGAMESH. I LIKE YOU IN FATE/ZERO NOW. YES. I'm sad waver got to live though. ;w;

Also fuck you rider now you're causing Saber to have an existential crisis in the middle of a fight god damnit.

ALSO TWIST THAT KNIFE. I SHOULD NOT ENJOY WATCHING A MAN I COULD END UP SIMILAR TO BE IN PAIN SO MUCH BUT DO IT SAKURA TWIST THE KNIFE MORE.

[Hello Purvis]

Chaore your joys makes me smile. =]

[♛ Apher-Forte]

somewhat relevant news:

TMA releases footage of of their cosplay porn edition of Fate Zero, with Goro as Kiritsugu no less.
I literally laughed to hell with it...
seriously killing the fanbase since 2008.

[Chaore]

Spoiler:

....

WELL THAT EXPLAINS A LOT ABOUT WHY KIRITSUGU DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO GET ILYA BACK

JESUS CHRIST.

[Hello Purvis]

The uselessness of automatic weapons in this series is more irksome that it should be. =|

I am rather pleased with

Spoiler:

the Grail's limitation, though. Especially given how Kiristugi has problems with thinking on dichotomies.

[PX]

Spoiler:

The sad part is that this episode was pretty much shit compared to the LN. Hopefully the blue ray version with ~20 minutes of cut footage should redeem it, because so much was left out.

Also, Berserker's machine guns were strong enough to fatally wound Saber of they connected. And Kirei's jacket was reinforced to repel bullets with his sleeves. None of this explained.

[♛ Apher-Forte]

Spoiler:

shall I reinterate those were not normal bullets?
but rather IMPROVED MAGIC BASED BULLETS?

[Barrakketh]

I am rather pleased with

Spoiler:

the Grail's limitation, though. Especially given how Kiristugi has problems with thinking on dichotomies.

Well...

Spoiler:

It's not exactly a "limitation", it's a side-effect of the grail being corrupted after the third Grail War.  That isn't how it was made to function.

[Hello Purvis]

Hmm, could you elaborate it on that?

[Barrakketh]

Hmm, could you elaborate it on that?

Well, there's gonna be spoilers covering Fate/hollow ataraxia.  Possibly the end of Fate/Zero, so beware if you're not familiar with the plot since I don't think the last episode aired yet.

Spoiler:

During the 3rd Grail War, the Einzbern family somehow summoned the only Avenger-class servant.  That class was a container only for Avenger, who is also known as Angra Mainyu.

Avenger is not the "real" Angra Mainyu (see the Wikipedia entry for more about that), but an ordinary human that was selected by his other villagers to be the source of all evil in the world.  "They captured him, beat him, carved every word that cursed mankind onto his body, forced every sin imaginable upon him, took out bits and pieces of him slowly, defiled his mind with absolute evil, and held him responsible for all of it in the world. They would not allow him to die until he succumbed to old age. He had a curse put on him as a result, one made of the great evil that he was to represent."

Since Avenger's sacrificed eased the minds of those people, that actually qualified him to be summoned as Hero under the Grail system...normally only "good" Heroic Spirits could be summoned (then again, nothing he did in life could be considered evil).

Since the Grail contains the Heroic Spirits after they are defeated in the war, the Grail ended up containing and being corrupted by Avenger (who represents all the evils in the world).  That sludge corrupted the Greater Grail after it was spilled when Saber destroyed the Holy (Lesser) Grail, which is why servants like Medusa (Rider in the 5th war that takes place in Fate/Stay Night).

An amusing tidbit is that Gilgamesh is basically so damned full of his self that his ego kept him from being corrupted by the sludge, and he instead gets a physical body.

[Hello Purvis]

I think I expressed myself poorly.

Spoiler:

I meant that I liked that the grail could only grant wishes in a way that the bearer could understand it working. And poor Kiritsugu, he's always had a problem of considering everything a matter of who needs to be killed, rather than looking for third ways.

[Barrakketh]

I think I expressed myself poorly.

Spoiler:

I meant that I liked that the grail could only grant wishes in a way that the bearer could understand it working. And poor Kiritsugu, he's always had a problem of considering everything a matter of who needs to be killed, rather than looking for third ways.

I understood that when I made my original reply, which is why I mentioned that what you liked about it wasn't how the system was designed to work.  Your second post I interpreted as you

Spoiler:

asking me for more information about how the grail was corrupted.

Which is kinda relevant, because:

Spoiler:

The Grail is trying to influence Kiritsugu.  You know the two boat dilemma that it showed him?  It asserted that he would kill all 200 people, presumably because of how it perceives him.

But Kiritsugu is a logical thinker and would pick the solution with the best outcome.  If he killed 200 people like the grail said, that means only 100 would survive.  That's not the best outcome.

One more thing:

Spoiler:

The "ultimate goal" of magi is to reach Akasha, the Root.  That's where the Akashic Records is.  It exists beyond time, and is the source of everything that exists and happens in the universe.  It also is the record of everything that happens (and everything that could possibly happen) in the past, present, and future.

The Grail System was created to help find a path to Akasha, and what I previously described isn't something that any person can truly understand beyond a definition.  The whole concept of the Grail Wars is extremely flawed if the Grail had a restriction like that...how could you possibly understand reaching a location that exists outside of time?  Or understand something that is the origin everything that ever is, ever has been, or could possibly have ever been?  What would it look like, and how could you interact with it?

[Chaore]

Spoiler:

The thing is, that's perfectly possible.

There were 2 wars before hand that didn't involve angra manyu shenanigans. They didn't end in 'X FAMILY HAS ATTAINED THE GOAL OF THE MAGI'.

And we've seen how perfectly to plan the holy grail war has gone for the three families lately.

[Hello Purvis]

Yeah, Chaore's got it.

Just because they thought it would work doesn't mean it would actually work. That'd actually be rather fitting, given one of the major themes of the working with the grail is that it just doesn't do what you expected of it and it falls short.

[Moerin]

Huh, little surprised there.  I was sure the final words of the series would be

Spoiler:

"Good morning, sempai!"

, but I suppose it still worked out pretty well anyways.

Now where's my Heaven's Feel adaptation.

EDIT: Oh right, before I forget... The reason the Grail was never activated in the previous wars wasn't because of any fault in the Grail itself, but because... All of the Masters and Servants killed each other before anyone could actually claim the completed Grail, due to there being no rules to the wars.  This is why they brought in the church to supervise, so that there was someone to enforce rules and make sure the same thing didn't happen yet again.

[Chaore]

Spoiler:

i was doing fine until the funeral and i just

ALL THE SADS ;w;

Again given how heavily it seems I may end up kariya one day oh man did I love the worms eating him and sakura dissing his corpse

I kind of liked the final words. It's basically ending up Kiritsugu as a character, and well, it WAS his story.

Spoiler:

I'm a sucker for that scene though, it's why i love the song normally accompanying it so god fucking damn much.

[Widermelonz]

Damn I love Nakata Jouji's voice.

[♛ Apher-Forte]

/CONTEXT
/salivate
/Gilgamesh'd


not exactly sure if NSFW.

[Moerin]

Out of all the outfits Gil has worn over the entire franchise, I have to admit this is my favourite. :3

[Edible]

not exactly sure if NSFW.

Don't care.  I'll allow it.

MONGRELS MONGRELS MONGRELS