Author Topic: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Someone Wins  (Read 57122 times)

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 2
« Reply #420 on: March 23, 2012, 04:08:00 AM »
That's hammer.

No more talking.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 2
« Reply #421 on: March 23, 2012, 04:09:15 AM »
Final Votecount

BlackRose: (6) Meiya Mitsurugi, Yuno Gasai, Quicksword Irene, Kaori Kanzaki, Tenshi Hinanawi, Farina - LYNCH!
Kaori Kanzaki: (3) Esuna Busy, BlackRose, Eclair Martinozzi
Uesugi Kenshin: (1) Maka Albarn
Not Voting: Uesugi Kenshin
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

BlackRose, Town Bodyguard, was corrupted Day 2!

You have about 24 hours to send in night actions to all three mods. Please don't hold off till the deadline. Additionally, everyone in the game must PM me during the night as an activity check.


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Night 2
« Reply #422 on: March 24, 2012, 02:31:06 AM »
All night actions have been received. Day will start in about half an hour to an hour.


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Night 2
« Reply #423 on: March 24, 2012, 03:13:50 AM »

"Oh...I've saved up so much money... ...Florina... I'm sorry...Sister..."
Farina, Town Framer, fell in battle Night 2!

Day 3 has begun! You have 72 hours.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Countdown timer
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 04:20:48 AM by Conqueror »


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #424 on: March 24, 2012, 03:21:20 AM »

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #425 on: March 24, 2012, 04:01:57 AM »
The following is written in the mindset that Kanzaki is scum, because I still think she is.

Looking at how yesterday's wagons shook down, I am the least pleased with how Mitsurugi handled the situation. At the risk of stating the obvious, scum went into the situation knowing BlackRose would flip town. In reading Mitsurugi's #271, it's a lot (a lot) of fancy words that show disdain for both BlackRose and Kanzaki, but unless my eyes really started to atrophy in reading it all, I couldn't find a "this is why I'm voting for BlackRose instead of Kanzaki" anywhere in it. (I realize I was overly succinct on that same issue, but at least I made some sort of distinction and tried to explain it as Farina kept asking about it.) It also came right after Gasai switched to Kanzaki, which means it could be an effort to keep the trains close in the hopes the winds would ultimately blow BlackRose's way. Anyway, the Kanzaki comments without the distinction as to why BlackRose was worse could very well have been because Mitsurugi wanted to avoid both voting for her partner and looking like she didn't want to vote for her partner. If that makes any sense.

I'm also not quite sure I like Kenshin's confusion regarding BlackRose's role and the way it played out in the thread, given how gung-ho she was about it. It's not as bad as Mitsurugi's approach because maybe it was just an honest mistake under deadline pressure, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

Irene is a little of Column A, a little of Column B in that she's generally guilty of both of the above things but not quite to the same degree as either Mitsurugi or Kenshin. Her indecision on the lurkers and her confusion surrounding BlackRose's claim feel more genuine. I do note she said in #272 that she wanted to see a BlackRose post before deciding but then went ahead and decided six hours later anyway in #285, however. What changed in the meantime? (Also, just as a general gameplay thing, LAL is far more applicable after D1 than on D1. On D1 there are far too many potential outside circumstances to really accuse someone of trying to lurk through the game.)

Obviously a lot of the above loses oomph if Kanzaki turns out to be town, but that's what the opening disclaimer is for. If Kanzaki DOES turns out to be town then my suspicions would lower on Mitsurugi and Kenshin and rise a little on Irene due to what I pointed out in #378. I can easily see scum "reluctantly" getting involved in a double-town lurker dichotomy while trying to get lots of info out of it.

I give Albarn a null-tell pass for holding her position because she had repeatedly disapproved of lurker voting and her vote would have been the hammer if she had switched regardless of who she switched to. Nothing else really stood out to me in my re-read; everyone else either went where they had telegraphed they would go or made a clear decision if they hadn't shown one already.

##Vote: Kaori Kanzaki for the same reasons I've gone over in the past. I still think she's the scummiest thing on the table.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #426 on: March 24, 2012, 04:18:12 AM »
Okay. All forms of LAL are apparently going to catch town this game. As with previous times fakeclaiming has been the raeg, the key is finding the people who believed the claims without reason. At least clinging to this hope keeps me from killing you all in a blind rage.

Kaori needs to claim her target for a partial clear.

Reading words for hours have hurt my head so I'm going to stare at vote counts for a sec.

Quote
Day 1 Final Votecount
Eclair Martinozzi: (1) Kaori Kanzaki
Meiya Mitsurugi: (4) Quicksword Irene, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi, Sayaka Miki
Yuno Gasai: (1) BlackRose
Sayaka Miki: (7) Uesugi Kenshin, Shana, Farina, Yuno Gasai, Meiya Mitsurugi, Maka Albarn, Esuna Busy - LYNCH!
Indecisive as Fuck Votecount

BlackRose: (2) Yuno Gasai, Quicksword Irene
Kaori Kanzaki: (2) Tenshi Hinanawi, Uesugi Kenshin
Eclair Martinozzi: (1) Meiya Mitsurugi
Esuna Busy: (2) Eclair Martinozzi, Kaori Kanzaki
Uesugi Kenshin: (2) Maka Albarn, Esuna Busy
Tenshi Hinanawi: (2) BlackRose, Farina
Pre-Claim Day 2 End

BlackRose: (5) Farina, Meiya Mitsurugi, Yuno Gasai, Quicksword Irene, Kaori Kanzaki
Kaori Kanzaki: (5) Uesugi Kenshin, Esuna Busy, BlackRose, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi
Uesugi Kenshin: (1) Maka Albarn
(Only change for day end is Tenshi switches to Blackrose.

Current notes:
- Kaori Kanzaki, Tenshi Hinanawi and Uesugi Kenshin are probably not a scumteam.
- Uesugi is either trying to incriminate themselves really badly or isn't scum.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #427 on: March 24, 2012, 05:51:56 AM »
Our vote will probably come as a surprise to people considering our earlier stance on this.

##Vote: Tenshi Hinanawi


Here are Tenshi's reactions to the claims.

Sayaka:
I can't stay here any longer, my heavenly bed beckons. I'll admit I was ready to switch to Miki to do my best to secure a lynch, but with the claim that cut me just now and needing to go to bed, I'm gonna stay on Meiya.

Wish the claim had come earlier, but nothing to be done about it now.

BlackRose:
Blugh. Of all the times to get sick, it had to be now. I wanna go to beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed ;_;

I've never been great with the role game, but neither claim stands out to me over the other. Kanzaki's claim is at least somewhat consistent with things she said on Day 1, and Irene seems like a bizarre choice for a scum faction roleblock. BlackRose's claim is harder to prove (obviously) but the results were also telegraphed in her #308, wording I found curious at the time but understand now. I think BlackRose may be a bit premature in calling Gasai "confirmed" town, since there are a number of reasons a given scum may not act in a noticeable way (something that wouldn't leave an appreciable mark like Rolecop or Framer, or something that may not act at all like the conventional Godmother), but It's possible her word choice is being influenced by Gasai's play.

Really, the thing that stands out the worst to me over the past couple of hours is Irene getting huffy about Kanzaki's claim forcing her to commit to a style of role and then vocally still hoping for a third train, which would presumably generate a third roleclaim from someone else. Scum don't only look for role info from their preferred NK targets, you know, and I know you've been looking for Farina pressure for a while, someone I'd consider to be a prime NK choice anyway.

Nothing stands out to me as needing immediate addressing from either Albarn or Kenshin, though I think the latter doesn't make enough of a distinction between scummy lurking and not-present-at-all lurking if she's still that irritated with Irene 1.0. For as much as the concluding statement is possibly-third-party and unlikely-scum.
Kenshin: I imagine BlackRose had her revelation before deciding on her Night 1 Action, and that Gasai was the choice she changed her mind to, rather than a choice she changed her mind away from.

I don't like doing this, but between being sick and not getting enough sleep for work even when I wasn't sick, I have to go to bed. The roleclaims more or less balance out for me, which defaults me back to my original gameplay stance, which is still the Kanzaki vote.

Cut by stuff wait what argh I have to read this before I leave don't I

The first has instant belief of a cop claim and a declaration to stick where she is before Meiya or anyone else had offered a counter-claim. There was no question in her mind that this was anything but a trueclaim, but there wasn't any reason to believe it yet. It felt like she was in a rush to clear and go.

I also have issues with her declaration the Day 1 wagon was smeared with the need to lynch someone. Everyone on the wagon had taken time to justify their votes either through dislike of play or suspicion of claim. I didn't think much of it at the time but I also didn't say the wagon was unreadable, only that it had contained people I thought were town at the time. Declaring a day's efforts wasteful is a good scum tactic to keep us from seeing how bad a wagon was.

The second has the equivalent of saying she believes both roleclaims but one of them must be scum. For what reason? There is no reason to have dismissed the possiblity they were both telling the truth. Instead she phrases it as a false dichotomy where one of us must be the liar. It also seems off that you make a case on Kaori and forget to ask her who she targetted last night.

It's also my opinion that when someone is nightkilled screaming someone else's name all day that said person just might be scum.

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 2
« Reply #428 on: March 24, 2012, 06:10:03 AM »
Another day, another votecount.

Kaori Kanzaki: (1) Tenshi Hinanawi
Tenshi Hinanawi: (1) Yuno Gasai

Not Voting: All of the other reindeer.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 of you to lynch.

69 hours remaining.

Countdown timer. For all the cool people.

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #429 on: March 24, 2012, 06:47:33 AM »
In regards to the Day 1 claim, I was in a rush to go to bed. 4/5 days this week I've sacrificed sleep (and therefore work productivity) for this game, and that was one of them. (In before AtE accusations) I had already staying up later that night than I wanted to, and my options at that time were to not switch to the cop claim without thinking about it and go to bed, switch to the cop claim without thinking about it and go to bed, or sacrifice more sleep time waiting for a counter-claim, dwelling on them both, and making work the next day suck even more than it was already going to. Ultimately I think I made the right choice. (And before you ask, note the hour difference between my quoted post from the end of Day 1 and the end of Day 2 - this is why I was willing to stick around a little bit longer for the latter, physical condition aside.)

In regards to yesterday's claims, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at (especially in your use of "one of us must be the liar" - who is "us"?). My mindset with the roleclaims was that both of them looked plausible, and both may have been functionally truthful, but neither of them were anything close to the level of "if this claim is true, this person is town", so I had to fall back on scumhunting, and even with the roleclaims I didn't think anyone else looked worse at the time. Kanzaki still looked the scummiest to me at that point even with the claim, so I couldn't internally justify moving off of her at the time when I originally thought I was going to bed.

Speaking of Kanzaki, after what happened at the end of Day 2, do you really think she won't claim who she targeted if she's not asked?

In regards to the Miki wagon, the last two votes were an Albarn vote where she had made a distinction but still clearly wasn't happy and a Busy vote after spending time earlier talking about how she didn't want a Miki lynch. Even with Busy's vote being influenced by the fakeclaim, I'd still say there was a reasonable amount of "gotta lynch someone" present. I will admit that I mentally lumped Mitsurugi's "not me over me" vote in with them when describing the wagon, though, which made the assessment end up broader than it should have been.

There's nothing I can really do toward the nightkill specualtion except point out that I think Farina was a reasonable NK choice regardless of whatever the scumteam is.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #430 on: March 24, 2012, 07:07:05 AM »
* one of them. Specifically one of Blackrose or Kaori.
Speaking of Kanzaki, after what happened at the end of Day 2, do you really think she won't claim who she targeted if she's not asked?
Yes. After how difficult it was for her to understand what we wanted her to claim there is no reason to assume she would helpfully volunteer information needed for our discussions. As scum she would have no reason to either. Why do you assue your suspect will be forthright with information?

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #431 on: March 24, 2012, 08:20:07 AM »
Request to Meiya.  Drop the RP completely.  I'm sorry to be such a party pooper, but your posts are really hard to read, and I want some clarity while I'm doubting all my reads.  Say everything you have to say in simple sentences in the easiest way to read possible please.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #432 on: March 24, 2012, 09:14:31 AM »
I am still highly suspicious of miss Kanzaki's behaviours. As I mentioned within this post miss Kanzaki's actions are filled with contradictions and hypocrisies. Of particular note is the point I presented in regards to how much faith miss Kanzaki is able to place upon her own case when it has been entirely derived from the thoughts of others and how miss Kanzaki has failed to provide an answer when contrasted with an important piece of miss Kanzaki's "case" upon miss Busy being based around how miss Kanzaki thought that miss Busy did not believe in her own arguments.

Now as I mentioned yesterday here, even if I had not the time to organize my thoughts, miss Kenshin's post here highly interested me. Miss Kenshin felt it appropriate to use miss Rose's supposed confusion in regards to her own role as her reason to vote for miss Rose. Others pointed out to miss Kenshin that her analysis in regards to miss Rose's role was flawed. However miss Kenshin's response was to ignore these words of advice and to instead call for others to speak upon the subject whilst leaving her own vote upon miss Rose. Miss Kenshin clearly stated within this post that she believed miss Kanzaki's claim to do her no favors so I ask why was it that miss Kenshin failed to move her vote when the basis for miss Kenshin choosing to place her vote upon miss Rose rather than miss Kenshin was proved to be nothing but an misinterpretation on miss Kenshin's part? In addition I believe miss Uesugi to be a large offender in regards to over-dramatizing the timing of miss Busy's vote on miss Miki during the first day, though this has been covered in depth by others before me and I feel not the need to bore you all by reiterating their thoughts.
##Vote Uesugi Kenshin

I have heard your request, miss Gasai, and will attempt to be more concise with my words from this point onwards. I am sorry to say, however, that in order for myself to grant you this personal favor I shall have to forget my prior arrangement with yourself and refer to Yukiteru as "Yukkie" once more.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #433 on: March 24, 2012, 10:01:06 AM »
Quote
I am sorry to say, however, that in order for myself to grant you this personal favor I shall have to forget my prior arrangement with yourself and refer to Yukiteru as "Yukkie" once more.

When was this arrangement? I can't recall you ever talking about Yukiteru and Gasai making an arrangement with you. Did you just slip between the scum QuickTopic and this thread?

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #434 on: March 24, 2012, 10:05:45 AM »
I am afraid not, miss Martinozzi. I was referring to what miss Gasai said here and how I have since refrained from referring to Yukiteru as "Yukkie".

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #435 on: March 24, 2012, 10:17:55 AM »
My diary carries no mention of this blasphemous Yukkie. >:< For the sake of clarity you are permitted to do so without being stabbed repeatedly with knives until Yukkii stops looking.

Meiya, if you had to name a third scum whom would you suspect?

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #436 on: March 24, 2012, 10:44:09 AM »
Ah, now I see it. It was at the start. Geez, here I was getting excited for nothing!

In any case, I'm not sure I get the case on Tenshi. The dichotomy doesn't strike me as entirely hard, given everyone had cemented the Town lynch to be on either of BlackRose or Kaori. It would be a right miracle to have moved the lynch onto someone else at the time, so judging by whoever is scummier by the end of it, I don't have problems with Tenshi's conduct much. I, likewise, decided Kaori seemed more scummy to me than BlackRose when moving my vote.

In any case, the above post may indicate where my suspicions lie and they have not moved since Day 1 much. I was willing to let up on Meiya yesterday because multiple people concluded I was tunnelling and I decided to look at others besides Meiya, thinking that if she were the scum I think she is, there would have been pos that provided further evidence; posts which, I believed, would be easier to come by if I did not focus my entire Day on her and turn it into another back-and-forth.

Then Day 2 happened and Meiya provided nearly nothing. I reiterate that Meiya has done nothing but misconstrue others to provide her case. Examples such as:
Quote
Firstly, I must ask how miss Martinozzi's thoughts on both miss Gasai and miss Irene have changed. Miss Martinozzi first voted for miss Gasai within this post due to miss Gasai's miller claim. The fact that miss Gasai has claimed to be a miller has not changed. Does this mean that your attitude towards miss Gasai has also failed to change? The same can be said of miss Irene who has, from miss Martinozzi's perspective, claimed to be aligned with anti-town forces in this post. There have been no actions to change this fact so this leaves me to wonder why miss Martinozzi would not be voting for one that she believes to have outright claimed to be aligned with forces that work against the town. Miss Martinozzi claims in this post that she wishes not to leave her vote in a place that will serve no purpose however if miss Martinozzi truly believed miss Irene to be aligned with those that are not working towards town's win condition then would the vote not be serving a purpose simply by being upon miss Gasai? I ask why miss Martinozzi was so quick to give up on her vote on miss Gasai.
To which my response was:
Quote
If I didn't mention Gasai during any of my previous posts, it's because I didn't find anything in her posts that really felt scummy enough to talk about. Complaining I do not jump on every little bit and try to spin it into scum is naive and you need to pick up training again. That is not how you catch Galette spies.
And near Day 1 end she claimed:
Quote
In this post you state "If I didn't mention Gasai during any of my previous posts, it's because I didn't find anything in her posts that really felt scummy enough to talk about. Complaining I do not jump on every little bit and try to spin it into scum is naive and you need to pick up training again. That is not how you catch Galette spies." May I ask why you said this. I believe that my argument regarding the hypocrisy surrounding accusing miss Gasai of performing untelegraphed actions was directed at miss Miki, not you. Perhaps you, miss Martinozzi, are burdened with a guilty conscience?
I cannot see how she can misconstrue her cases like this continuously and still not get flak from the rest of Town. There is a distinct difference between bad play and horrible play, and I consider her wordiness and extravagant attitude more of a way to hide the true meaning of her words than anything else. Continuous inattentiveness towards what she claims is Scum is horrible.

That she lurked through the entirety of Day 2 with a few exceptions further raises my heckles, and I just don't like how she picked up her Day 1 Eclair case when most of it honestly was her attempting to discredit my case on her by continuously spinning the truth around like a baby. She voted me for reasons posted at the time of her switch to Sayaka, which is this post.

She doesn't say why her actions aren't scummy: she returns a question. This is avoiding answering to stuff and it is simply not Townie to avoid answering stuff and justifying yourself. I showed time and again that her vote on Tenshi was, at the time, due to solely one question related to a gross misinterpretation of Tenshi's case on Maka Albarn in the early-game, and it strikes me as a gruesomely inattentive attitude to hold. That she claims Farina was redeemable yet Tenshi was not, despite the entire vote being based on a question oozing with inattentiveness, and then refuses to give further clear answer on it, is the entire crux of why I believe her vote was insincere and Meiya has not been scumhunting. Things like
Quote
I also believe that statements such as "You had time to talk about Gasai's blurb on BlackRose, surely you have time to talk about why the person you're voting is a Galette spy." are highly provocative and serve no purpose other than to smear one's name.
are further deflections to answer to stuff. Highly provocative it is, because I want Meiya to finally make clear why I am Scum, and she has yet to provide so.

Quote
As we are, once again, pressed for time I shall temporarily cease diverting my energies towards miss Martinozzi

This is of course a riot because Meiya has never diverted any energies to providing a case on why I am Scum. This post has her voting me, and it contains two arguments:
1) Eclair's case on [Meiya] is contradictory.
2) How have your thoughts on Gasai and Irene changed, Eclair?

That is not a scum case to hold on to to Day 2.

Quote
Miss Martinozzi also states that: "This isn't enough reason to vote Tenshi over Farina for me and I want her to make that abundantly clear." I also find the notion that miss Martinozzi feels that she has the authority to determine what appears to be ill-motivated behaviour to others to be laughable. Especially when one considers the fact that miss Martinozzi complains within the very same post about how she cannot do anything if others do not agree with her viewpoints in regards to miss Irene's behaviours.

This is another example of deflection I find when I read back to the early game. If you read her post voting Tenshi over Farina, I believe there is sufficient reason to at the very least ask why Farina is less suspicious than Tenshi, and returning the answer "Haha, you have no authority" to that is at best unhelpful Townie behaviour but likely Scum dancing around the issue.

When I look at her only real post on Day 2 here, the case on BlackRose is needlessly wordy and can be condensed easily:
1) BlackRose provided nothing. This is disadvantageous to Town's win condition.
2) BlackRose continuing to provide nothing shows she intends to continue this tactic that benefits only herself.
3) BlackRose defends lurkers and says Tenshi is suspicious for voting lurkers, while BlackRose herself agrees to Kanzaki's lynch.
4) BlackRose says attacking lurkers is lazy and then says she'd like to see Kanzaki lynched. Question.
5) "I refuse to accept miss Rose's reasons for avoiding placing her vote upon miss Kanzaki."

To be sure, there is no explanation why these actions are scummy: lurking itself is not scummy, and if it is then Meiya is scummy for lurking through Day 2. A tactic that benefits only oneself isn't so much scummy as third party, and there's the omission of how continuing that tactic would be hazardous, considering everyone harped on her for not providing. I cannot see how Meiya pressed BlackRose continuing to post in the way everyone criticized as something scummy. It's honestly just dumb.

Number 3) is another inattentive and gross misrepresentation of the truth. I believe BlackRose adequately explained herself there. Number 4) is almost the same, except that Meiya poses a question attached to the observation, rather than a conclusion or opinion. I have never liked people who avoid posting their own opinions.

Number 5 is a blatant admission that the vote is at least partially fuelled by BlackRose not attacking a lurker as her top priority, given BlackRose's reasons were that attacking a lurker would be extremely lazy considering you can put your vote there and call it a day.

Her Day 3 post has no mention of me which is baffling considering I was her sole aim for the better part of Days 1 and 2.

All things considered, I stand by the idea that Meiya is scummy and would like to see her lynched, or else given sufficient reason to believe she isn't Scum enough to want someone else over her.

And now back to rereading Busy.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #437 on: March 24, 2012, 10:44:27 AM »
##Vote: Meiya Mitsurugi, forgot my vote.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #438 on: March 24, 2012, 11:34:34 AM »
I am uncertain so as to my third suspect, miss Gasai. I believe it is most likely to be miss Busy, but I require more time in regards to this matter.

Miss Martinozzi, I had stopped addressing you and directed my efforts elsewhere because I have acknowledged that I was at fault in our exchanges. Perhaps if I had had more time during the second day I would have realized this sooner, but alas.

I will, however, argue against miss Martinozzi's argument that my thoughts revolving around miss Rose were not genuine.
-Miss Rose was providing no content. I found this behaviour to be unacceptable. Being in possession of a grand total of four posts up until the point where one is threatened by a modkill caused me to believe that miss Rose's tactics were reminiscent of scum attempting to abuse the MotK meta of allowing lurkers to live.
-I, personally, felt miss Rose's case on miss Hinanawi to be nothing more than a placeholder whilst the only read that miss Rose remained convinced of was that on miss Kanzaki, a lurker. As I assume my thoughts to be true, it appeared to myself that miss Rose was doing what she was calling lazy within the very same post, looking solely for the lynch of a lurker.

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #439 on: March 24, 2012, 12:15:15 PM »
I'm avoiding reading the D3 posts before I'm properly woken up and functional, mostly because I'm heavily questioning my own reads in regards of textwall people I've been reading as town after seeing Farina's flip, namely Eclair, Tenshi and Yuno.

So for now I'll just ask what's obviously bugging me.

How in the hell does a town framer make any sense?

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #440 on: March 24, 2012, 02:22:24 PM »
Quote
How in the hell does a town framer make any sense?

Bastard mod setup where Townies get pro-Scum power roles. Given Cop-Who-Is-Actually-Vig, Yuno's claimed Miller, BlackRose's Bodyguard-Who-Actually-Misdirects and a claimed Godmother-Actually-Bulletproof, Irene 1.0's "my role is 50% scum 50% anti-town..." I'm afraid Conqueror seriously thinks that 'it is not bastard mod if you tell the players it is.'

In any case, why does a Farina flip shake your belief?

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 2
« Reply #441 on: March 24, 2012, 02:27:45 PM »
Needs more votecount

Kaori Kanzaki: (1) Tenshi Hinanawi
Tenshi Hinanawi: (1) Yuno Gasai
Uesugi Kenshin: (1) Meiya Mitsurugi
Meiya Mitsurugi: (1) Eclair Martinozzi

Not Voting: More than half of you.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 of you to lynch.

~60.5 hours remaining.

Countdown timers are for gun girls. None of you are gun girls, are ya?

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #442 on: March 24, 2012, 02:27:54 PM »
Quote
Miss Martinozzi, I had stopped addressing you and directed my efforts elsewhere because I have acknowledged that I was at fault in our exchanges
I kinda missed that acknowledgement in the stream of words and will look for it then. If so, consider the point withdrawn. Still stands everything else.

Your clarified reasoning towards BlackRose are at least much more acceptable, but how was BlackRose's content worse than Kaori? You specifically voted BlackRose over Kaori, so I'd like to know why Kaori was better in your eyes.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #443 on: March 24, 2012, 02:47:25 PM »
@MOD: Would you announce LYLO, Potential LYLO and MYLO?

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #444 on: March 24, 2012, 03:05:50 PM »
I als need a response from mod to a different issue before posting what I've written up.

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #445 on: March 24, 2012, 03:06:06 PM »
also* blegh.

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #446 on: March 24, 2012, 03:32:55 PM »
Gasai: Regardless of her alignment, Kanzaki would be beyond stupid to try to get away with not talking about her night actions when she was a hair's breadth away from being lynched last night and it was her claim that stayed the aggressive hands up until the BlackRose nonsense. There's putting forth no effort and then there's having the brain of a gnat, and I've only ever accused her of the former. I would assume my vote for her shows her that at least some of the wagon against her yesterday still isn't satisfied, so I have no idea why she would think she could try to waltz on by without being transparent (to use Irene's terminology) about her night action.

Thank you for the clarification on the "you" thing, though it doesn't really change my response since I was trying to respond to as general a question as possible.

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #447 on: March 24, 2012, 04:18:02 PM »
Other stuff, shortly before I have to disappear for a while.

I kinda missed that acknowledgement in the stream of words and will look for it then. If so, consider the point withdrawn. Still stands everything else.

For the record, I can't find this either. Mitsurugi's switch off of Martinozzi in #271 was spurned by being "pressed for time" and doesn't appear to say "Okay, Martinozzi, I was wrong about X, Y, and Z." #273 chalks her lack of a follow-up due to lacking time from outside circumstances rather than believing Martinozzi addressed her issues to her satisfaction. #294 is the same way.

So...where's the acquiescence, exactly? This makes the Martinozzi vote look even more like a votepark than before.

I also noticed Mitsurugi addressed the Kenshin post she found "interesting" at the end of Day 2 by blasting Kenshin. Funny thing is that I had figured at the time that Mitsurugi may have found it interesting because maybe she made the same mistake Kenshin made, since Mitsurugi was also voting BlackRose at the time and may have wanted to push her further. Note that she didn't elaborate on why it interested her at the time - not even to say "Kenshin, something's up with your post" to make it clear who the post made her think less of. Which means it could basically be used to spin a thought process in whichever fashion Mitsurugi found convenient later.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #448 on: March 24, 2012, 04:38:04 PM »
The role names are like anti-town versions of their real roles. She wouldn't actually be a Framer, but I can't guess what a Framer would relate to. I would have guessed Jailkeeper, but she didn't counterclaim Kaori so \0_o)/

Eclair, if you believe Meiya is scum again you probably shouldn't include her role in your list. :p

To respond more directly to Tenshi, specifically her posts today: Can you explain why your suspicions of Uesugi would decrease if Kaori flipped town, when Uesugi had been voting Kaori since the start of the day? Can you also explain why Uesugi being confused about a town's roleclaim and believing they were lying is scummy?

Regarding terrible sleeping habits which I can hardly condone because sleep is the most important thing to me: The nature of my problem is more that you refrained from commenting overmuch before the claim happened. It didn't seem like you were fighting hard to oppose the lynch to push your own target and when the claim went down you just said obv true and left it at that.

I also note the next day you refrained from commenting on Meiya's claim at all. You never justify why you dropped your suspicions. At all. There isn't a single mention of her Day 1 after that. This post contains your only mention of her that day, in a post that talks majorly about Uesugi and Maka and it's easy to miss the paragraph about how Meiya is voteparking. (You even comment that your current suspect brought up a good point about it.) You also never follow up on these comments and they aren't included in your accusations directed at her today. In my opinion it seems like you're taking each day seperately and bringing up the things people have done lately instead of making your reads based on fluid continuous thought processes.

Also, because you add on the Kaori vote on the end like that I can't tell why you're voting her over Meiya at this point, who it sounds like you have a much better case on. Your cut emphasizes this point to me.

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Sword Girls Anonymafia - Day 3
« Reply #449 on: March 24, 2012, 05:23:41 PM »
The following is written in the mindset that Kanzaki is scum, because I still think she is.

Looking at how yesterday's wagons shook down, I am the least pleased with how Mitsurugi handled the situation. At the risk of stating the obvious, scum went into the situation knowing BlackRose would flip town. In reading Mitsurugi's #271, it's a lot (a lot) of fancy words that show disdain for both BlackRose and Kanzaki, but unless my eyes really started to atrophy in reading it all, I couldn't find a "this is why I'm voting for BlackRose instead of Kanzaki" anywhere in it. (I realize I was overly succinct on that same issue, but at least I made some sort of distinction and tried to explain it as Farina kept asking about it.) It also came right after Gasai switched to Kanzaki, which means it could be an effort to keep the trains close in the hopes the winds would ultimately blow BlackRose's way. Anyway, the Kanzaki comments without the distinction as to why BlackRose was worse could very well have been because Mitsurugi wanted to avoid both voting for her partner and looking like she didn't want to vote for her partner. If that makes any sense.

I'm also not quite sure I like Kenshin's confusion regarding BlackRose's role and the way it played out in the thread, given how gung-ho she was about it. It's not as bad as Mitsurugi's approach because maybe it was just an honest mistake under deadline pressure, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

Irene is a little of Column A, a little of Column B in that she's generally guilty of both of the above things but not quite to the same degree as either Mitsurugi or Kenshin. Her indecision on the lurkers and her confusion surrounding BlackRose's claim feel more genuine. I do note she said in #272 that she wanted to see a BlackRose post before deciding but then went ahead and decided six hours later anyway in #285, however. What changed in the meantime? (Also, just as a general gameplay thing, LAL is far more applicable after D1 than on D1. On D1 there are far too many potential outside circumstances to really accuse someone of trying to lurk through the game.)

I voiced why I thought neither of the lurkers were scum at the time, yes, but seeing how the day was definitely not going anywhere else by that point (as proved by the nigh-zero frickin' reaction to my case on Farina and my later restating of my case to clarify why I'd rather lynch her than either of the lurkers), I placed my vote on Blackrose to get a final confirmation through claims since given the amount of content I just could not be completely sure. You guys still had almost 12 hours at that point, while I only had 6 (which later stretched into 8 and a half despite losing precious sleep).
I really can't defend my LD2 stance as anything other than "shit, I'm pretty sure neither of them are scum" -> "...but if they are letting them go would be horrible" -> "I want their claims to make sure" -> "Okay I'm pretty sure neither of them are scum but I'm already going to be running tomorrow with less than 5 hours of sleep and nobody gives a damn about my case, less even a quickwagon, so let's just hope that I screwed up when announcing my wagon intentions for the day and one them got themselves a good scum fakeclaim, meaning one of them does flip scum in the end". It didn't help that Blackrose dissapeared for 15 minutes just when I asked her to claim.
This is WIFOM but I'd find it ridiculous that I engaged in such questionable behaviour instead of just going to bed early if I were scum given, the amount of town reads I was receiving throughout the whole day and perfectly being able to get away with it due to GMT differences.

Regarding stuff other than trying to explain myself, I mirror Yuno's sentiments regarding your condemning Kaori way too early, given that her role is confirmable if her target is town interested in finally clearing her and redirecting scumhunting towards other objectives. Not only that, but your post in general comes across as... scummy. This thought starts when you completely disregard any possibility of citing earlier mentions on how Kaori is scum despite however clear they were yesterday, specially after how many people commented on how they bought her claim. This translates into no scumhunt effort and picking up what was a valid case back then without adding anything new to it (just in case the validity of the case where to be discredited) to get a vote on a plausible lynch. It reads further into your first three paragraphs on Meiya, Kenshin and I being given particular importance in comparison, but I can understand all the points in those so I will disregard that part of it for now.

I give Albarn a null-tell pass for holding her position because she had repeatedly disapproved of lurker voting and her vote would have been the hammer if she had switched regardless of who she switched to. Nothing else really stood out to me in my re-read; everyone else either went where they had telegraphed they would go or made a clear decision if they hadn't shown one already.

I don't like this. Maka's D2 behaviour throughout was highly questionable, and not hammering when I had already openly expressed my dislike of something like that happening without very, very thorough justification was a given, and cutting her slack early isn't good in my book when she certainly needs to get in here and do something.

Have I mentioned how I dislike that Tenshi is the only one openly admitting they dislike my behaviour? I can definitely understand how it would be questionable, and would've expected more people to see the same thing, and yet I'm stuck with reading her as scummier now despite that, which could be interpreted as a blatant OMGUS. I voiced my intent to read her closer after throwing her a town read, but I admit I never really did that since I was so absorbed in trying to get people to move throughout all D2. Despite all this, I dislike how Farina dying after her #378 could be a set-up to get us to duel today and disregard everything else, so I need to reread her after this.


Hell, Uesugi seems to have already found out about my identity, given how he commented on MotK not being the most active, and since scum might attempt to treat me as a regular I'll just go ahead and say stuff since having meta on me is outright impossible. It's my first time playing something other than epicmafia or a newbgame in a different language, and reading through the recent MotK games has quickly made me realize I'm weak to certain wording styles and highly dislike rereading due to paranoia over it, and that I most likely won't do the rereading despite promises unless I find myself forced to. Okay that sounds like lack of town effort, but I've openly mentioned this before, I'd rather stick with mostly first-impressions because I beleive it's when I get the most out of posts (unless under bad mental conditions, which is why I was willing to reread D1 after going through it in a single sitting) and what I mentioned about paranoia over styles, so it shouldn't be a surprise.


Back to the actual game, I considered writing up a case on Uesugi at night, but I figured her words on not giving all her cards away were particularly right in my case and that I had overdone my transparency throughout the day to the point where I'd most likely be the NK. I'm happy that being tired at the end of D2 made me look a bit worse and I wasn't killed, because I get to play more, but not writing it then means I now heavily question my read due to the NK being my prime suspect yesterday and what Yuno pointed out about regarding Uesugi incriminating herself badly. My paranoid mind thinks that this could also be a bus-if-necessary setup, so here's my most important concern regarding her that wasn't already mentioned in Esuna's #295 which I already showed agreement with at the time to the point where if I had acutally spent time rereading instead of trying to keep up with the day end I probably would've been fine with a quickwagon on her instead of Farina's, or at the very least on equal terms.

2) I dislike talking about why I think people are town or why I don't think they're good cases for a lynch; this is not a game of "i think this person is town because", it's a game of "i think this person is scum because." Doing the former is a waste of my resources.

#144
#375 and #380

I hope I'm not being retarded and somebody can see the issue I have with this. She showed cocky attitude over what she and Farina defended as optimal amount of posting dedicated to scumhunting. She expresses dislike for giving out town reads and prefers to focus on hunting scum, and yet didn't give anything throughout D2 that suggested any other suspects other than Kaori, as already pointed out to the death by Esuna, and this flip-flops the hell into her end of day posts being short reads/comments on the playerbase, which absolutely reeks to me as just trying to provide some non-compromising content to keep town happy.
On the other hand there's the convenient incrimination and that I remember my very first impression on her being "she's town" due to the rageprod in #144, so the issues I have on rereading might be applicable here, I'm ultimately not sure what I think of her.

I'm still reading Yuno as town, I want Esuna to appear and keep doing her green stuff so I don't have to question the alignment of absolutely everybody in the game, Kaori should claim her target, I want Maka to appear and I need to develop some sort of stance on Meiya tonight.

IRL commitment has come up and I really hastily edited some stuff so I can't read and reply to the last two cuts.