Author Topic: MIDNIGHT CREW MAFIA - OVER - SCUM WIN (Read 43679 times)

ICE · « **Reply #720 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:03:33 AM »

Okay at this point shady K and huh what have both posted with affinity at L-1

Some days you know you made a good choice ^_^

Shady_Ghost · « **Reply #721 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:04:34 AM »

If anything the scum would leave me alive since I'm so useless in the discussions anyway :V

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #722 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:07:03 AM »

<_<

It feels like you said that to trap me. I can't tell if you're just setting things up so when ICE dies tonight, you can try to invoke something along the lines of "oh whoops i was wrong about the nk, guess i can't be scum Vote Huh What", or if you're just a herp who gave away the scum gameplan. Maybe I'm just paranoid.

ICE: Any last thoughts, or would you rather leave it at this and just hammer now? I don't think there's anybody else for us to hear from (aside from Affinity, lol).

ICE · « **Reply #723 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:14:03 AM »

The expected value of discussing optimal scum night kill choices approaches negative infinity.

As for last thoughts, here are mine:
Neighbors barely count as a power role, as vanilla. Sure, me and shadoweh made nigh-on optimal use of them, but it's still no more than two townies with bulletproof reads on each other could manage.

Bomb/bomb confirmer/ tailor (doc? Weak doc? Flavor cop?) is just too little.

Bulletproof is a scum claim, except during mass claim, which is now.

Hmmm....

Actually...

##unvote

Can you give me a day to reread?

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #724 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:18:51 AM »

Shrug. If you think you can make good use of more time today, then go for it.

If Dormio was a Weak Doc, we'd have been in LYLO earlier.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #725 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:19:14 AM »

(LYLO meaning a form of it, not actual LYLO)

I have no name · « **Reply #726 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:21:33 AM »

Weak is one of the modifier pages I remember reading before the wiki went down :derp:
What does it do again?

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #727 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:22:19 AM »

If you target scum, you die.

Affinity · « **Reply #728 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:44:00 AM »

.___________________.

ICE · « **Reply #729 on:** March 08, 2012, 08:22:55 AM »

What, your approach to day 1.

What was it?

Because lemme follow the logic. I'm town bulletproof. Not even limited shot. Just... Bulletproof.

Man, I'm gonna be the towniest town that ever did town. I'm gonna slip breadcrumb, I'm gonna get in people's faces, I'm gonna shake my big town wang and give everyone mushroom tattoos.

So, you just said you like to gambit. What was your gambit day 1 to get scum to shoot you? Day 2? Because based on yur day 1/2 play, I'd have said that you were like, maybe on a town vigilante's kill list, but certainly not scums'.

ICE · « **Reply #730 on:** March 08, 2012, 08:23:58 AM »

Quote from: Affinity on March 08, 2012, 07:44:00 AM

.___________________.

Sorry, but one serela was quite enough~

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #731 on:** March 08, 2012, 08:45:31 AM »

I'm generally not a hyper-aggressive player but I did what I could to push my opinions, though I was probably lacking during D1 since I was busy then (particularly early on) and naturally environmental factors are going to limit my play. I tried to come off stronger on D2, though whether I was succesful or not was probably subjective (I think I did a decent job pushing for Serela's death, though it ended up being pointless due to his stallclaim). I definitely wouldn't consider myself to have been a good vig target this game unless the vig was retarded.

I didn't think about breadcrumbing an important PR, but I'll have to keep that in mind. This is my first time rolling BP (one time I rolled self-revive-on-NK but I didn't play specially there at all and still got shot, also it was ages ago and I was bad :shrug:) and I've never actually seen that done before.

I never said I liked to gambit, I'm typically indifferent about them (with some exceptions, I guess). I fakeclaimed VT because claiming BP tends to make BP worthless, even if there's only one more chance for me to get shot. Yes, I classified it as a gambit, but that's not the same as saying "I LIKE TO GAMBIT".

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #732 on:** March 08, 2012, 09:22:47 AM »

I'm going to bed in 40 minutes because I'm cold and fucking exhausted, and I would rather not wake up to being quickhammered. If there's anything you want to ask me ASAP, now's the time to ask it.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #733 on:** March 08, 2012, 10:07:56 AM »

I'm going to bed. I have nothing more to say tonight since no more questions have been asked and there's little more for me to add. ICE's post strikes me more as "you suck at town" than "you're scum fakeclaiming BP", which is irritating since I don't believe my town play has been horrible this game, but ugh, whatever.

I'm going to ##Vote I have no name before I leave.

Even without any sort of individual scumminess from Nameless, ICE is town for a number of reasons, and ShadyK I don't buy as scum for both ICE's role speculation and Serela's L-1 vote on him from D2 (plus, there's the whole "nobody else ever implied they were roleblocked" thing, for whatever that's worth in this set-up). Affinity might as well be claimed scum at this point. I can't imagine the game is going to come down to anything but this no matter what happens, and I think it'd be better to solve this issue while we have two townies around instead of one, since that way scum can't just NK whoever is more on the mark. I've been thinking, and given the claims we have on the table, I don't really see a downside to this... unless knowledge of Affinity's role ends up being critical, in which case it's not too late to lynch him.

I'll re-read with scum!Affinity fully in mind and post what I've got in the morning. However, I'm probably going to busy with school during most of tomorrow and the first half of Friday, resulting in less opportunities to post (will be home but occupied tomorrow, will be gone early Friday).

ICE · « **Reply #734 on:** March 08, 2012, 02:09:13 PM »

Tricksie ponies.

Were I to base this solely on play, it'd be 110% nameless.

Of course mafia is a team game. And certain things make me iffy.

Serela (3) - huhwhat, Dormio, Shadoweh
I have no name (2) - Affinity, Serela
Affinity (1) - I have no name

Nameless scum means this day is weird to the point of being nigh on inexplicable.

ICE · « **Reply #735 on:** March 08, 2012, 02:14:53 PM »

I mean literally

When a wagon is building on scum.

The entire scumteam decided to self vote.

Yet, hmmm... once Serela committed delayed suicide with her vig claim, the Nameless wagon evaporated like smoke over water. Affinity jumped ship, and so did Serela, once again for the same wagon. Why jump ship? Nameless was a fine place for scum to vote park... unless a nameless lynch and a Serela lynch left Affinity flying solo with veewwwy few people thinking he's town.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #736 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:10:45 PM »

Serela was a roleblocker, and you generally want those guys around in a bastard game. I don't think it's unreasonable that scum's plan was to bus Nameless, get Serela enough cred to survive, then coast to win. Nameless was the most likely to end up a liability due to inexperience. Due to ShadyK's result, we already know that scum!Nameless has a passive role (...or is a Ninja, I guess, but with the tracker so nerfed, I wouldn't regard that as likely), so presumably he wouldn't be anything too big of a loss for scum. Bomb in particular is a notable possibility for his role, since Dan implied there are multiple bombs.

I think the proposed "bus Nameless" plan makes more sense given Nameless' late day actions. He pretty much would have been voting all his buddies, which makes sense if he expected to die and wanted to attempt last minute distancing. Note that he was actually pretty reserved about voting Serela and Affinity earlier in the day, and how his switch to Serela had very awkward/forced reasoning. If the plan was to bus Nameless, then that's another reason that he wouldn't actually be willing to put Serela to L-1 as scum.

This post is notable as well. He wanted either Affinity or Anthy lynched, but he did absolutely nothing to push for Affinity's lynch despite voting Affinity, instead just going along with the Anthy wagon. Since Serela was dead at the time, lynching Affinity would have resulted in Nameless having to solo the rest of the game following Serela's death, giving him a fair reason to not attempt to get the lynch he apparently desired.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #737 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:15:00 PM »

Also, Serela and Affinity both have histories of lynching their buddies very often, for whatever that's worth. <_< Serela in particular has trouble voting anybody other than his buddies as scum, which makes a "bus Nameless" plan seem more reasonable to me. Pretty much all of his attacks on other players but his Nameless vote this game were terrible (and even the Nameless vote didn't look that great).

:metaarguments:

ICE · « **Reply #738 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:27:34 PM »

Okay, here's my review.

First, and short: ShadyK is town. That's out of the way. As Holy What noted, Serela/Affinity diving onto ShadyK when Dormio (town) had the hammer choice would have been nigh on suicidal had Dormio hammered scum that day. Serela would have died the next day, and Affinity would have two days alone with virtually no one thinking he's town. Fate, yeah, sure, but Affinity doesn't play scum like that. Second, claim is hella town. Third, Shadoweh was convinced he was town, I was convinced he was scum. If you have to shoot a mason, and one of them thinks your scumbuddy is town, one of them doesn't, you shoot the one tunneling scum. The shots have all been following a reasonably predictable pattern.

Action Dan - basically confirmed town, may have had more to power role not disclosed (hi bastard mod).
Shadoweh - Confirmed (As far as they knew) town, suspicious of Affinity, almost impossible to lynch (don't take Masons into LyLo)
Dormio - wild card, strong town read that had little input, and so was tough to read in LyLo.

Safe, safe, safe shots. This is a scumteam that likes to play it safe. Lurk, distance, shoot confirmed/obvious town, and try and get by. No imagination.

-----

Holy What versus nameless

The more I look at it, the more I lean nameless. I can feel LLD screaming at me "bulletproof is a scum claim ICE, you say it EVERY TIME SOMEONE CLAIMS BULLETPROOF YOU DUMBASS" and she's right, but... *sigh*

She's right, and I want to ignore it anyway. Holy What, if he's scum, has played quite a good scum game. This isn't consistent with claim alteration during MC with a derptastic breadcrumb. Holy What, if he's town, has played a middle-of-the-road town game with some stellar moments and poor moments, the best you can ask for out of town, and quite consistent with someone uncomfortable with gambiting pulling a gambit.

This line is utterly damning, IMHO:

Quote from: holy what on March 06, 2012, 11:36:16 PM

Serela is scum and dies today. I can explain why his revised claim is bullshit if necessary.

That's... pretty much exactly the reaction I'd expect from town if their role had just been claimed. That sort of definitive, no nonsense, "thank you for claiming scum, die now."

The best part is that Holy What didn't even bother to announce it.

So for Holy What to be scum, he had to:

- Bus his own scumbuddy in a way that SCREAMS (in retrospect) "I just had my role claimed"
- Decide to, during mass claim, fakeclaim VT with a lousy breadcrumb, rather than scream "SERELA CLAIMED MY ROLE AND I KILLED HER, LOOK HOW AWESOME I AM!"
- Forget that he had more or less screamed "Oh my god, I so got counterclaimed" and offer me a derpy explanation.

Verdict: Affinity+Nameless scumteam

Do I have the balls to put my money where my mouth is and vote nameless, with Affinity confirmed scum?

Perhaps.

I want to hear what more people not affinity have to say.

I have no name · « **Reply #739 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:34:59 PM »

So much discussion of how things went under the assumption I'm scum >.>

Well, since that's out of the way, why not go through the game again under the assumption that other survivors were scum?

Quote from: holy what on March 08, 2012, 07:10:45 PM

Bomb in particular is a notable possibility for his role, since Dan implied there are multiple bombs.

If I'm a scum bomb then town loses if I go first. Of course worrying about that is null due to me being Vanilla town.

Quote from: holy what on March 08, 2012, 07:10:45 PM

This post is notable as well. He wanted either Affinity or Anthy lynched, but he did absolutely nothing to push for Affinity's lynch despite voting Affinity, instead just going along with the Anthy wagon. Since Serela was dead at the time, lynching Affinity would have resulted in Nameless having to solo the rest of the game following Serela's death, giving him a fair reason to not attempt to get the lynch he apparently desired.

That was D2. I didn't think Affinity had any chance of being lynched at the time, so I went with my other scum-pick. Also I was confused then.

Quote from: holy what on March 08, 2012, 07:15:00 PM

Also, Serela and Affinity both have histories of lynching their buddies very often, for whatever that's worth. <_< Serela in particular has trouble voting anybody other than his buddies as scum, which makes a "bus Nameless" plan seem more reasonable to me. Pretty much all of his attacks on other players but his Nameless vote this game were terrible (and even the Nameless vote didn't look that great).

:metaarguments:

Hypocritical. You got mad at me for supposedly using meta to incriminate Serela, and now you're using player history to 'prove' that I'm scum.

Quote from: ICE on March 08, 2012, 02:09:13 PM

Were I to base this solely on play, it'd be 110% nameless.

>.>

Quote from: ICE on March 08, 2012, 02:09:13 PM

Of course mafia is a team game. And certain things make me iffy.

Yes listen to this wise man.

Quote from: ICE on March 08, 2012, 02:09:13 PM

Serela (3) - huhwhat, Dormio, Shadoweh
I have no name (2) - Affinity, Serela
Affinity (1) - I have no name

FTFY. I see this more as scum going "ok, everyone thinks there's 2 scum, so which town do we vote on...let's go with the one most likely to be mis-lynched!"

Quote from: ICE on March 08, 2012, 02:09:13 PM

Nameless scum means this day is weird to the point of being nigh on inexplicable.

ding ding ding ding ding we have a winner. If I were scum, this would have gone down soooo much differently.

I have no name · « **Reply #740 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:35:26 PM »

Also ICE thank you for spelling out exactly why huh what is scum ^_^

ICE · « **Reply #741 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:38:44 PM »

Oh fuck it.

If we lose, I claim full and 100% responsibility. No one else did this. Sure, some people could have played better, but if the town loses at this juncture, it is my fault.

Vote: Nameless

Holy What, if you're scum, I compliment you on an amazing game. Simply amazing. That bit with Serela was so just 'I have been counterclaimed,' not even trumpeting it, the way you have played slightly off-key town instead of obvious scum, the ActionDan shot when Dan went out wanting nameless dead, I honestly can't find reasons to call you scum. Even with a bulletproof claim, and I HATE THOSE from the bottom of my heart.

*holds breath and waits*

I have no name · « **Reply #742 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:42:00 PM »

You have 2 choices.
Unvote or lose as Affinity quickhammers.

I have no name · « **Reply #743 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:43:12 PM »

I say get rid of Affinity now then target the last scum D5.

Shady_Ghost · « **Reply #744 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:43:58 PM »

Wait are you guys saying even though I tracked noname last night and he didnt visit the nk that he's still scum? I guess that could be a scum power being able to not be tracked but Im having a hard time believing that if this is the case.

ICE · « **Reply #745 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:46:09 PM »

Quote from: I have no name on March 08, 2012, 07:42:00 PM

You have 2 choices.
Unvote or lose as Affinity quickhammers.

If we don't lynch scum two days in a row, I lose anyway.

ShadyK: Either member of the scumteam could have submitted the kill.

BTW, congrats on confirmed town status.

ICE · « **Reply #746 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:46:53 PM »

Hmmm...

GRRRRRRRRR

Unvote

I have no name · « **Reply #747 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:47:29 PM »

Quote from: ICE on March 08, 2012, 07:46:09 PM

If we don't lynch scum two days in a row, I lose anyway.

I know that. But Affinity's role could help get the last one, as you yourself said.

Quote from: ICE on March 08, 2012, 07:46:53 PM

Unvote

DON'T FORGET THE '#'s

ICE · « **Reply #748 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:48:53 PM »

##Unvote

Affinity's role isn't going to help with anything.

All it's going to show is that Affinity is affinity.

Nameless, who are eggs and biscuit?

Shady_Ghost · « **Reply #749 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:51:18 PM »

Oh I just now realized that there are 2 scum left and not one...