IMP MAFIA - TOWN VICTORY

[Affinity]

In general, I agree with Bard that Dan was not acting in a pro-town capacity.  He had four IRL days to elaborate on his scumreads in some passable manner to allay town's doubts, but yet he was really stubborn about not providing any detailed reasoning for them.  At the end where he narrows down his field into three or four suspects, he doesn't even deign to choose between any of them + vote.  It is anti-town behaviour at the very least.

##Vote: headcrabs

I'm going back to my vote on headcrabs which I elaborated on here.  His convenient avoidance of the Dan fiasco also somewhat acts against him.

===

For PX, I know that I did not exactly give an opinion on him so far, but he hasn't really done much and is scummy for all the conventional reasons; he votes for rawr here, only to forget about it and move to Dormio?  One thing he accused Dormio of doing in the above post...

You haven't been looking for scum, you've been strolling around threatening people with a vig to get information out of them. This strategy makes a lot of sense if you look at it from a scum perspective, as he gets to threaten claims out of people and then move on to the next person. I don't see a town!vig acting like this.

... is awkward and untrue, since Dormio did no such thing.  In fact, headcrabs did this yesterday, but I didn't see PX caring much about that D1.  It's really just inconsistent reasoning that does not hold up.  Couple that with a plan B in his unelaborated read on Shadoweh and here we have possible scum.  Also, if he voted Dormio and rawr while suspecting Dan and Shadoweh for not having a strong case, then why has he ignored headcrabs and Serela? Am fine with the PX lynch today for the above, though I prefer headcrabs' due to his active lurking being worse.

[Dr Rawr]

Wait.... was huh what really posting a bah post? or is that some kind of joke?

[Chaore]

...Chaore, you do realize that John's last name only has one g, right?

that was my bahpost i guess i had better go back to being dead since i died a while ago and am gone forever and definitely dead and not ever going to post in this thread ever again bye

I'LL COUNT THIS FOR WHEN YOU REALLY DIE AND BE NICE

ALSO I THOUGHT SO BUT DID NUMBER COUNTING AND I GUESS COUNTED WRONG

ALSO NO HAPPENINGS, FEEL FREE TO POST CONTINUE ETC.

[Shadoweh]

... This is one of those things where you'll use my words as a reason to lynch me, isn't it. Yes, I acknowledge there is merit in examining the common link between those two activities.

You're proposing that scum would A) want to lynch Dan and B) direct Dormio's shot to Town. And because I A) wanted to lynch Dan and B) willing or not likely had a hand in directing Dormio to shoot Dan (now a confirmed Town), I satisfy both conditions for being Scum to you, yes?

That, or someone else did it and it would be more beneficial to figure that 'it' out then to tear at each other. My case on you is that you were wrong and it's scummy to get townies wrong. Your case on me is that I was right and it's scummy to get townies right. It is possible for both of these cases to exist and be wrong.

Rawr why are you voting for headcrabs >_>

[Dr Rawr]

im getting to that =/ let me make my post

[Dr Rawr]

I honestly cant get nothing but town reads from you people, no joke. The only people i think are scummy are Maav dorian, headcrabs, px.

Going by reasoning serela isnt scum so BT cant be either
huh what was just confirmed town
dormio town vig, dun fucked up
bard even though he did push for towndan to be vig/lynched the reasoning behind it made sense
affinity is town going by gut here because he hasnt done anything scummy

headcrabs is scum well, honestly affinities post more or less sums it up, also do note because action dan ended up vanilla townie could headcrabs have lied about his role making people vanilla?
dorian seemed to jump on actiondan wagon after bards vote making it seem easy lynch/vig
PX is scum based on everyone else seeming town and the fact that he fails to mention anyone else and his OMGUS votes on dormio that pop up

also i cut myself  :toot:

[Bardiche]

Frustratingly that is still not my case on you Shadoweh.

All right, let's play this your way. Let us assume that the Shadoweh, Bardiche and Dormio trifecta are all Town, and an outside party sought to influence Dormio to shoot Town. I'll note in my favour that I proposed the Dan case prior to Dormio claiming dayvig, so there's a thing there.

If we look at the people who wanted Dan shot, we look at Affinity, Dorian, BT. I ignore any PX sentiments to shoot Dan because understandably, PX doesn't want to get shot. Of the three, Dorian votes Dan, where Affinity says he "would lynch/vig for the standard reasons" and BT blatantly calls for the vig shot to be on Dan.

The above is all reporting. I now need to read them and form an opinion. Frustratingly that brings me back to BT, with whom I do not want to get into a slap-fight, and frustratingly that makes me look at Affinity and Dorian, who both seemed reasonable on my first read in their ideas about a Dan lynch.

I need more sleep before I can decide on this, but I note that I fully expect BT to vote me now and present why I am scum despite agreeing with my Dan case, since he said either Dan or I was Scum. In fact, make that a request to explain how you can both be drawn to my case enough to ask for the vig to shoot Dan, while holding that I am scum in the same breath.

[capt. h]

Too lazy to write flavor for the votecount again

Affinity: NeoSerela
BT:
Dr. Rawr:
Huh What:
Shadoweh: Headcrabs, Bardiche
Bardiche: Shadoweh
NeoSerela:
Action Dan:
Headcrabs: Affinity, Dr. Rawr
PX: Dormio
Dormio: PX

Not Voting: BT, Dorian

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 42 hours.
[/quote]

[Dr Rawr]

wasnt the votecount reset, or am i confusing what that means?

[Bardiche]

I am both not voting and voting Shadoweh in that count, too, and we've lost 24 hours. Add those on, if you'd please, cappie!

I'm going to sleep and re-read tomorrow, and consider whether Shadoweh's idea that Scum definitely influenced Dormio to shoot Dan is plausible enough to take it as gospel.

Also ##Unvote instead of votepark. Kneejerk ##Vote: BT for simultaneously maintaining my case on Dan is good and he should be shot and that I am scum and should die if Dan isn't.

[Bardiche]

Yes I am saying BT was lining up the lynch in case of a Dan shot okay. No I am not fully considering everything but empty unvotes are baaad etc. GOODNIGHT.

[Dr Rawr]

er if you think BT is scum, then what would make that serela?

[Dr Rawr]

in fact if what serela is saying is true your vote on BT makes no sense to me  :fail:

[Chaore]

god damnit stop calling me a bastard i'm only huggable votecount

Affinity:
BT: Bardiche
Dr. Rawr:
Huh What:
Shadoweh:
Bardiche: Shadoweh
NeoSerela:
Action Dan:
Headcrabs: Affinity, Dr. Rawr
PX: Dormio
Dormio: PX

Not Voting: Everyone else

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 46 hours.

[Shadoweh]

Honestly I'm starting to ship a headcrabs/maav/PX scumteam just to explain why this game feels so directionless.

For people clearing BT based on Serela's role, I have one little question. "Why?" Explain it to me in your own terms. The mass of people agreeing with Serela is suspicious on it's own, for the sake of it being Serela. Rawr can answer this one first!

I don't think Bard is scum now that I've calmed down. >:T WHY CAN'T ANY OF YOU SCREAM SCUM TO ME. I wish I'd read faster and posted this before he unvoted me because now I'm just copying him. RRRR.

I'm going to..
##Unvote
##Vote: Rawr

The only thing that keeps me from running this way is how easy it seems, but he seems really textbook scummy, with opinions that change every few posts. Rawr, can you explain why:

Right now im finding it incredibly hard to believe serelas claim and is just setting up a night kill for BT right now. also his #330 and #348 were pretty much the same thing except the vote. Both those posts  were "everyone is null so i dont have much opinions about them, but going by gut affinity looks weird." Which i guess ill wait and see his reasoning for voting affinity sometime before the day ends. Also you pretty much screwed over BT using your role to confirm him as town. Pretty much i find serelas role claim fishy, all his reads are null, and not scum hunting.

Leads to you arguing that BT must be confirmed town afterwards, when you keep saying that Serela is lying? You think Serela is lying about his claim, therefore there should be an easy answer to why BT could be scum that you're avoiding.

id put dormio for being town day vig, but i would be suspicious if he vigged the wrong person...

You thought Dan was town so what happened to this?

I'd be willing to lynch PX as well, For both waiting until after Dormio shot to decide he was scummy, and for being really something with my role involving him.

[Dr Rawr]

Shadoweh, this just made too much sense to me. When i said wrong person i meant if he vigged someone who wasnt on his list of people like affinity.

[Dr Rawr]

unless theres some kind of logic im missing from what BT said...

[Shadoweh]

What would be wrong with vigging Affinity? >3>

[Dr Rawr]

I think hes town :V

[Shadoweh]

No please, don't everyone talk at once. I'm being overwhelmed here.

When was the last time headcrabs posted? Considering he's looking like the leading wagon he might want to get on that. The two people voting him are the two people I think there's a confirmed scum between, soooo...

Rawr: Whyfore is Affinity town pour favor? Something besides that he looks townie.

Affinity: *This space saved for intense IM contest research. Will fill tomorrow*

Dorian: So I didn't have time to read your post when I was busy trying to stop the person you were voting for from dying. I don't have to look back to know your only contribution was to say Dan is scum. Please return with a new perspective.

Everyone: Get your votes down in your first post. We don't have alot of time, people need to remake their stands so we know what the voting situation looks like. I can't remember there being a wagon on anything un-Dan so this should be interesting.

@mod I'm just guessing but I bet headcrabs is due a prod here.

[Dorian White]

I don't even know where I should look anymore, my scum reads so far were:

Schezo, throw everything and the kitchen sink to push for a lynch with unreasonable force and swearing.
Hero, I can't be bothered to read the game so I just park my joke vote here. Don't like it? Have some deflections.
Dan, setup speculations are so cool! Making cases? Too mainstream.
Why is Town so much better in getting my suspicion than scum?

My Town reads are:

Affinity, BT and Bardiche, mostly cause I understand their reasons and argumentations. As you can see does it not mean that I agree with them, I just don't see scum intent here.
Dormio is also a Town read, I was concerned about the flexibility of his scum reads, I think he flipt his picks three times over, but a closer reread has shown me that it was reasonable given to the circumstances and quite consistent.

Everyone else is null.
So much to my reads, catch up now.

[Vhaltz]

herdcrabs has been prodded. And the pants were dead.

[capt. h]

Beware the votecounts of March

Affinity:
BT: Bardiche
Dr. Rawr:  Shadoweh
Huh What:
Shadoweh:
Bardiche:
NeoSerela:
Action Dan:
Headcrabs: Affinity, Dr. Rawr
PX: Dormio
Dormio: PX

Not Voting: Everyone else

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 36 hours.

"But it's February."

"Then beware the February of March."

"But..."

"BEWARE!"

[Dr Rawr]

er my #485, if i think 3 different people are scum that must make affinity town i guess. I also havent seen him do anything scummy in the game thus far

[Bardiche]

I'd say something about Shadoweh voting the easy newbie now, but you know what? Fuck. It. All. I've been rereading this game, and I realise that most people take reasonable standpoints, and those people who do not are dead and have flipped Town.

Shadoweh, this just made too much sense to me. When i said wrong person i meant if he vigged someone who wasnt on his list of people like affinity.

The logic's based on "Scum wouldn't think of this", while you must remember that yes, scum could in fact think of that. It also contradicts what he said earlier in complaint about "setting up an NK", unless there's sarcasm and people need to stop using sarcasm in a Mafia game.

Saying Dormio'd be scum if he vigged someone out of his list is threatening Dormio to stick to his list or you'll vote him. Not cool. Vigs should be permitted to change their mind at the very last minute, provided they give adequate reason for their change of heart.

SO SHADOWEH, you told me to look at people who satisfied conditions X and Y and you don't do so yourself. Sadface.

in fact if what serela is saying is true your vote on BT makes no sense to me  :fail:

If Serela is speaking the truth, then:

A) There are now two people who are linked and die together.
B) BT will be told who they are if Serela suicides.

BT is only likely Town if Serela is definitely Town. Why is Serela definite Town, and why do you judge that everything he says is true? And even when Serela is definite Town, this does not mean BT is definitely Town. Or maybe I'm too hung up on gaming the system by virtue of roles is boring and I don't think the mod would make things that easy for us.

Would like the following:
BT, why did you keep to your case that I am Scum while simultaneously finding my Dan case so good that you say, "And with all this, it's hard for me to maintain that Scum!Bard read. It's almost nonexistent now."? I mean, at that point you decide that either Dan is scum... or Bard is scum. By proxy, either Dan is Town or Bard is Town. Why is it impossible that Bard is Town if Dan is not Scum?

So it would actually help me immensely if a certain dayvig happened to flip Dan. His claim, if true, is stupidly useless anyway. Yeah, I know, saying this is pretty damn scummy of me, but I'm honestly torn and would bank on one of them (Dan or Bard) being scum.

The reasons you suddenly stop clearing Dan are also a bit, uh, weird?

I liked him before because of the way Schezo persued him.

You... thought Dan was Townie because of the way Schezo pursued him? Uh. You judged his Townieness based on others' actions? Yeah, I really don't get how you can simultaneously agree with the Dan case, feel enlightened and add more ammo to the case AND say that if Dan somehow ISN'T SCUM, I must be.

[BT]

BT I believe has confirmed Serela's power?  Shadoweh and Px have used their claims.

Don't know where I implied this, but no; I have no way to 'confirm' Serela's power, and I never did. I only believe that his claim is town due to strong ~logic~.

Also,
Flip.
Fuck.

I think the detail regarding the cop was a tad important. What do you think, ActionDead?

Dormio is being cleared for his vig, and by several people, which I do not like at all. Scum dayvigs exist, you know? Clearing him over his role and not over his behavior is scummy.

I need more sleep before I can decide on this, but I note that I fully expect BT to vote me now and present why I am scum despite agreeing with my Dan case, since he said either Dan or I was Scum. In fact, make that a request to explain how you can both be drawn to my case enough to ask for the vig to shoot Dan, while holding that I am scum in the same breath.

Yeah, that happened. I was still not settled down at the time (hence why I unvoted, left unclear opinions, etc.) so I am happily going to explain my thought process then and now.

I thought your case was good. I reread Dan and thought he was really bad. I then went back to wavering on my read because of his ED1, and was unsure of my read on you due to "man, look at me, deciding he's suddenly town due to one good case. scum can kind of make good cases too, you know" so I felt fine with believing that there was a very good likelihood that one of you is scum. Which is pretty much what I said in that post.

You two were my strongest ~scum convictions~ over the course of the game so far (at separate occasions), so this made sense.

In your latest post, you act like I was definitively saying that "either you or Dan are scum" when I clearly stated that I would "bank on it". Ergo, at the time, I found it the most likely that one of you two were scum.

But now I'm reading the thread and your behavior from the Dan case onwards, including your vote on me (which is completely understandable), simply doesn't ring scum to me. Compared to, say, I don't know, D1. Your recent D2 simply comes off as town to me right now.

Oh, more stuff regarding your recent post. I liked Dan, for Schezo's push on ED1, during... ED1. Schezo was a very early scum read, and he had some dead serious intent behind his Dan case, so I automatically saw Dan in a good light.

So with my reads still out of wack, time for my vote.

##Vote PX##

I don't know, I guess it's mostly gut, especially since there's simply not much to work with regarding the guy; he's barely done anything, especially recently. But I have a few things pointing me to this direction regradless:

#288. I already said why I think this is bad; he comes out of nowhere to voice his opinion on Hero's claim (namely - that it is 'probably bullshit'), but does not voice his opinion on the guy behind the claim, nor does he actually make a solid stance besides "ok, yeah, go for the lynch, his claim isn't that great". So, in actuality, he never mentions his opinion on Hero, but shows up to voice support for his lynch when it counts, and even then it's not because "Hero is scummy" but because "his claim is probably bullshit".

#468. This post simply irks me because of what it contains. Or, rather, what it doesn't; PX graces us with his presence after some highly relevant dayvig-related drama, but does not care to even show his opinion on the matter, instead ignoring it completely and posting what seems to be a prod-like vote on Dormio, which is just, like, what. Instead of actually being productive and voicing your opinion on what just happened and what you think about it, you give us a case on how the recently-activated vig is doing nothing of worth. This hypocrisy goes an even longer way seeing as PX's accusation on Dormio holds for what he himself has been doing with Shadoweh; throwing a bunch of stuff at her and following it up with nothing at all. It's like he honestly thinks these tidbits are enough to replace actual contribution to town.

And, who knows, maybe this vote will actually produce something meaningful from the guy. I would honestly argue that what he's been doing up to now is more anti-town than what people are claiming Dan has done.

[BT]

##Unvote
##Vote PX

In case those extra #'s screwed with the system and such. I don't really know where those came from.

[Dorian White]

Dorian: So I didn't have time to read your post when I was busy trying to stop the person you were voting for from dying. I don't have to look back to know your only contribution was to say Dan is scum. Please return with a new perspective.

Of course, I make sure to let you know when I found one.

Until then lets catch at a straw. Method of elimination:

Shadoweh, is the most townie of my null reads so far.
Serela, is confused useless and unfortunately likely town as well.
Headcrabs, haven't posted in the last 48 hours if I'm not mistaken. ( maybe even about to get mod killed?)
Dr Rawr, still has some newbie credit but not that much anymore.

##Vote: PX

I'm not sure if you first vote on Dormio counts as OMGUS but this one does, a bit more explanation or maybe a case would be really nice.

So I'm going to reread PX and Dr Rawr.

[Vhaltz]

Votecounts, are there ever enough of them?

Affinity:
BT: Bardiche
Dr. Rawr:  Shadoweh
Huh What:
Shadoweh:
Bardiche:
NeoSerela:
Action Dan:
Headcrabs: Affinity, Dr. Rawr
PX: Dormio, BT, Dorian
Dormio: PX

Not Voting: NeoSerela, Headcrabs.

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 30.5~ hours.

[Serela]

Arrrrrgh plane got delayed for an hour and made us miss our next flight and it messed stuff up. I'm -finally- back and at my house though, so I'm finally in a place that is comfortable and has stable internet and a computer and stuff. I should at -least- manage to be as useful as I was D1 now! I can't think quite right when I'm out of my element, I probably wouldn't have gone all out with the BT stuff if I'd been home instead of travelling.

,..but first I have to overcome the issue of reanalyzing basically all of D2, plus reading the last few pages for basically the first time, ffffff. Tears that Dan didn't claim the cop part of his role, oh well, etc.

Rawr is becoming more readable and such, but I still can't hope to reach an even somewhat stable conclusion until after a flip from... well, currently I'd be most interested in Bard or Affinity's flip in relation to Rawr, but whatever. (I do still show interest in the possibility of scum!Affinity, for that matter D:). Dorian receives pretty much the same opinion as Rawr, mostly because his playerslot may as well have not existed until now.

It does look like Dorian doesn't really have opinions on who is scum yet, but he recently replaced in and is rereading and stuff so, sure I guess I'll have to wait on that!

Right, so who -hasn't- died yet? Mmn... headcrabs doesn't exist and BT is most likely town, so there's a Dormio and Bard and PX and Affinity... oh yeah and Shadoweh. I recall having a town read on Shadoweh. But for rereading! It's a thing that I should now do. It might take a little while so I'll go ahead and hit post while that's going on. Nevermind, then it'd be sort of likely I'll do something else instead *cough*

Oh riiiight Dormio is a vig. I'ma just ignore him for now. Shadoweh is still a town read for me. Bard, PX, and Affinity? Okay PX is still almost nonexistent which is Not A Good Thing.

Affinity making a case on headcrabs seems weird to me. Similarly, Bard woah wait Bard is still voting BT I just realized that, well that's also weird to me for a similar reason.

While they're both correct in that they shouldn't be completely and entirely cleared for role shenanigans alone (Especially as people other then me cannot be entirely sure I am town and headcrabs' thing could realistically be a gambit), it still seems that... well, I'll start with Bard, who IMO would be better off flipping me instead of BT if he's doubting my logic in clearing BT.

I'm too hung up on gaming the system by virtue of roles is boring

Yeah, it is if done in large amounts, but at the same time, using roles to aid scumhunting is something that shouldn't be ignored. I'm trusting what I think about BT because it's not something that would make sense to be circumvented in any manner by the setup, like how, say, even investigation and cop results can be by scum resistance to their powers or redirections or etc. The only logical solution is that Rose Lalonde is not a scum role, to me. I honestly feel that my flip is practically as good as flipping BT at the moment, plus I'm probably -way- more lynchable then BT now, so you'd probably have better results going after me in BT hunting efforts then him. I mean, if BT is scum, I'm probably lying my ass off right now.

That being said I'm not sure whether I actually think Bard is scum or not. I don't know where I stand on him. Ffff.

Okay so I'm fine with lynching PX for being a bundle of weird and super lurky and etc. Wait wasn't I talking about Affinity at some point? Aw I'll get back to that at a later date.

##Vote PX