Labyrinth of Touhou 8F

[Starxsword]

I think you misunderstood what I said. Defense is a useless stat in the main game. Mind is the only stat you really use. However, post game, there are more enemies that use physical attacks, so defense is much more useful.

[Serela]

Honestly; I thought it was sort of the other way around; in the post game, there's a lot more boss fights with little to no physical attacks at all. (Although the ones that are there tend to be scary things like Demon Slashing Dance, Arrow Rain, and Needle Rain.)

[Starxsword]

I am unsure then. During the main game I don't really notice the pain of having no Defense. Most of my party members were built with Mind and there does not seem to be many enemies that can do real damage. Once I got to post end game, that was a different story. My team was unprepared for Bhaal, or whatever his name was. I lack the defenses to handle him.

[qno2]

How about this then: post game, a lot of critters have threatening physical attacks (if you let them live long enough) and bosses that use them have the potential to be really frightening.
Still,  I can't remember a lot of physical bossfights in the main game and most that come to mind are in the beginning and/or the smaller* problem in the fight (Meiling, Chen, Youmu*, two of Alice' dolls*, Flandre*,

Spoiler:

Rinnosuke* [not sure about this one though]

, very few moves of

Spoiler:

Maribel*

... err, who else?). Not like I know what I'm talking about though.   :V  The first time I actually paid attention to the difference in my own party was due to Hibachi #1 and #2. And strangely enough Hourai Barrage hits both, which confused me even more about their gimmick.

i find she did NOT have the hp pool to survive ANY defense ignore attacks other than that lolweak one from hill gigas.

I'd say it's up to you to decide whether you spend some points into Tenshi's health or invest (probably a lot more) into Def/Mnd. Then again, whenever you hit 19/20/27F, you get more points than you could want so it's just up to preference. I've been gearing Yukari into the role of the tank since I got her, just like Tenshi, and she still hasn't caught up - in fact, the difference between the two is growing (they have about the same amount of skill points in both, though Yukari has a few more), we're talking about thousands - tendency towards tenthousand - at around level 210 in both Defense and Mind.

My team was unprepared for Bhaal, or whatever his name was. I lack the defenses to handle him.

Argh. All I've got to say about him.  :V

The boss that Baal unlocks (25F) actually makes me use Tenshi in a new way - let's gamble and try to cut away his buff of 100% Magic (chance is at 40%)! Will it work or will we gain a new problem?! DokiDoki heartburn.

... I believe she once cut away a debuff. Great work Tenshi. Thanks, really.  :V So dorky.

[Serela]

The boss that Baal unlocks (25F) actually makes me use Tenshi in a new way - let's gamble and try to cut away his buff of 100% Magic (chance is at 40%)! Will it work or will we gain a new problem?! DokiDoki heartburn.

On the other side, I'm pretty sure that boss has a low debuff resistance :V At the least low enough that it'd be easier to use Renko (plus she can debuff and not just buff-remove) then rely on the 40% chance to remove it.

Okay, I checked; it has a 70% chance to get hit by debuffs, which is absolutely stunning for a Plus Disk boss :3

...as long as we're talking about Agastobrauma and not Bloody Papa V2, wait, it might be the latter. I think he has -zero- debuff resistance, though. Renko is like MVP in that fight and lets you beat it, like, 150 levels early.

[qno2]

Didn't have Renko yet (went to beat

Spoiler:

Maribel

Ver. 2 after Agastobrauma; pity that she was a pushover this time around) but I used Komachi & Reisen instead.

So about this judge, that Eiki. Yeah, 70-80k damage and ignores defensive stats? I think that's as far as Tenshi will go, for now. At least she got to be useful as more than just a switcher and wall via derp-cutting (de)buffs!  :V   Guess it's grindtime.

[Serela]

If you've been using Komachi, you might be surprised how much throwing high HP bonus items from Plus Disk will go towards getting her to that HP number, along with some SKP gouging in her HP stat. It'll help a lot if you can manage that.

Decking out a few important people with resistances specific to her attack elements will help a lot too, and I know some Plus Disk items also carry like +256 affinity to several of them. It's the only boss I did that for, and it -really- helped out.

[Zil]

I hadn't used Komachi at all and I was still able to bring her out for that fight with enough health to survive.

Hourai Barrage hit's both Hibachi's bacause it ignores defense, if you hadn't already learned that.

[qno2]

There goes the judge (thankfully she never focused in this run).

I went through the whole thing with only Reimu for healing and everything went fine for me.

Did you manage to keep Komachi alive with just Reimu or did you use another strategy? I was forced to make it a shared effort together with Sanae.

Decking out a few important people with resistances specific to her attack elements will help a lot too

Had some 4 million SKP to spare. It's like being a millionaire!

P.S.: Shikeiki's natural mute resistance is pretty high... gasp, who would've thought?!  :V

[Zil]

I swapped her out the moment she was hit, then brought her back in and healed her with Reimu just before Eiki used Last Judgment again. I don't remember if she does it at set intervals, but if not then I think I just left Komachi in the back until she healed enough then brought her out as soon as I could. Items to boost recovery rate were probably involved.

[Ghaleon]

Yeah I find defense is still a very important stat for main game. Chen and Youmu are obvious... I think cirno's par one was phys too wasnt it? doesn't matter though. Yuugi's wind thing, orin, great stamp,executioner or whatever it's called (hugely important there), flan, Cootiesuke, all the bloody seal bosses cept for bloody papa (even then washing machine is composite isnt it?)...That's off the top of my head after not playing for nearly a year (windows 7 grr. I have to reinstall I think, if that doesn't work imma cry). Frankly, the only bosses where mind is clearly more important are yukari, maribel, yuyu,..uhh...cosmic, prismatic wind, or whatever it is, and bloody papa.

Problem with boosting Tenshi's hp. Is that having higher hp on tenshi isn't actually needed except for a rather extreme select few bosses. And her base hp is so low that you have to SEVERLY gimp her mnd/def potential to raise her hp to defense-ignore attacking survivability levels IMO. But yeah early game they aren't much of a threat coming from hill gigas and rinnosuke. I seem to recall great stamp's fist thing wasn't a big deal either (it could do it right? I forget if I'm thinking hill gigas again), but good luck with thousand fist khanon from that boss (though to be fair I don't think china even has a snowball's chance. that move is so way over the top op for that level...kinda like yuugi's ko3..maybe not THAT bad, but pretty bad).

[Ghaleon]

Double posting cuz phone editing is being a dork.

But i was looking at the wiki (net) and it says Yuugi's ko3 is fire. I havent played in awhe so im not 100% sure, but wasnt it physical and only fire in like 1.0-1.3?

[Sophilia]

It's physical and fire.  You're thinking of Nitori's murderbeam, which used to be fire and is now non-elemental.

[qno2]

Problem with boosting Tenshi's hp. Is that having higher hp on tenshi isn't actually needed except for a rather extreme select few bosses. And her base hp is so low that you have to SEVERLY gimp her mnd/def potential to raise her hp to defense-ignore attacking survivability levels IMO. But yeah early game they aren't much of a threat coming from hill gigas and rinnosuke. I seem to recall great stamp's fist thing wasn't a big deal either (it could do it right? I forget if I'm thinking hill gigas again), but good luck with thousand fist khanon from that boss (though to be fair I don't think china even has a snowball's chance. that move is so way over the top op for that level...kinda like yuugi's ko3..maybe not THAT bad, but pretty bad).

This might be a difference in perspectives but I don't have a problem using another character when faced with something like Last Judgement. As you said, Tenshi is good enough for most bosses, but nothing is stopping me from using someone else when needed. If anything it's great that not every character can deal with every single situation, forcing you to mix it up a bit. But yes, I know, most players that have beaten the game prefer having their select 12  but I'm not there yet.  :V   Probably wouldn't take her myself for this kind of challenge.

You're thinking of Nitori's murderbeam, which used to be fire and is now non-elemental.

Well that explains why it was so effective on that fire-based Sigil Guardian on 24F, good to know.

[Starxsword]

Labyrinth of Touhou should work fine with Windows 7. I am now using Windows 7 and I can run it fine.

[Ghaleon]

I know it can. I mean reinstall labyrinth, not windows.
Just that some reason a direct transfer of my game folder from my backup before I formatted to my newly installed windows 7 machine doesn't work at all...yes I got all the files.

Anyway I just got it to work again now (fresh install that is), translating as we speak. provided that works, I'll try stuffing in my save files.

edit: nope. as soon as I apply the translation patch the game is broken. Imma try re-dling it. maybe mine got corrupted somehow.
Update: yeah, that was it. my translation patch rar was corrupted or something. works now yay.
Another update: Seems that windowed mode is the only way to play..which sucks cuz I hate playing in windowed mode. If I play fullscreen mode, the game runs at 1300 FPS...making movement difficult, and menu selection maddening. Anybody know how to fix this? I tried running with old-windows compatibility but no dice.
Yet Another Update: Nm, force vsync on in graphics card settings. yay...Who knew there'd be a day where I'd WANT vsync in a touhou game.

[SuccinctAndPunchy]

Heh, I've got that fullscreen ridiculously high FPS bug aswell.

I actually keep it that way though, because it speeds things up immensely. Grinding is quicker, floor exploration doesn't take so long.
Honestly, I've been playing it for so long like this that the general motions for menu selection at such high speeds become muscle memory.

Frankly, I think it is kind of amusing how much more enjoyable certain RPG's become if you just crank the game speed up, perhaps I'm just an instant gratification junkie who likes my games quick, but I'm the kind of guy who when starting an RPG immediately hits the options menu, turns the text and battle speed up to high and later on the battle animations off.

[Ghaleon]

I'm guessing your fps wasn't quite as high as mine then. I had 1500 according to fraps. I mean even if I hit a key as quick as I could, menu selections would move like 4 slots...the whole confusion of menu selecting wasted more time than time was saved, same goes for exploration.

As for grinding faster..ehh.. you know you can push 'm' and your next step is a guaranteed battle? that'll save grinding time more. Also, you can disable spell animations in the config thing....That kinda broke the game in some areas though, I forget what because I've never done it myself. I forget if 3.01 fixed those issues or not.

[Zil]

It would remove "extra" effects from spells, such as Flandre's self damage and Rinnosuke's TP loss with his mega-buff. I think.

I don't know if it's been fixed either.

[I have no name]

Ok...so I beat Nitori then accidentally saved over the file where I beat her with the one right after beating Reisen (to show a friend my equipment for her).  Thankfully I had a backup of my pre-Nitori save, and hadn't done anything after, so the only thing I'd need to do is beat Nitori...again. (and redo equipment, and re-level/re-skill Nitori, but it's not that hard)

I'd really rather not do this, so I'd like to get the Cheat Table working so I can get the game back as it was before.
I tried but was unable to, what I plan to do is:
1: Hack in 12 Machine God Lucifers
2: Put them on the 4 party members who were active at the end of the fight
3: Start with the same party, switch to the uber party, kill Nitori
4: Hack out the Machine God Lucifers

Is this a viable method?

Also, I'm planning on fighting Suwako next, followed by picking up Sanae.  Is this a terrible idea?

[Ghaleon]

I haven't been able to get the cheat table to work this run even with the add/subtract 10000 trick so good luck with that.
Getting suwako shouldn't be a problem...Getting sanae will probably not be an option just yet. It most definately wont be an option if you're using a non ng+ party, cuz it'll require a very balanced party with buffs, debuffs, and very high initial fire resist. I don't think it's possible to meet all those requirements at your level with default party...assuming your level is normal for your floor, maybe you're way overlevel, dunno. But anyway, under normal circumstances. The sanae boss will 1hko your entire party before you get to move at the same level which nitori would be piss easy, it's that much more powerful.

[Pesco]

It's much easier to find the HP/SP values of the 4 party members and hold them constant. Let them cheese their way through the fight. Close CE when you're done.

[Ghaleon]

It's much easier to find the HP/SP values of the 4 party members and hold them constant. Let them cheese their way through the fight. Close CE when you're done.

Yeah I know, but without NG+, I don't think you have access to 4 relatively beefy people with decent natural fire resist that early in the game unless you're overlevel.

[Pesco]

You don't need high HP if you're holding them constant. Only DTH procs can kill you.

[I have no name]

Yeah I know, but without NG+, I don't think you have access to 4 relatively beefy people with decent natural fire resist that early in the game unless you're overlevel.

I buffed people's FIR affinity for Tam's Foe.  That and I have a bunch of Bomb Rings anyway, or is 200 affinity and 2000 HP not enough to survive it?

EDIT: Solved the Nitori problem by editing her HP to 1 and attacking.  Back on track with the main game.

[SuccinctAndPunchy]

I'm guessing your fps wasn't quite as high as mine then. I had 1500 according to fraps. I mean even if I hit a key as quick as I could, menu selections would move like 4 slots...the whole confusion of menu selecting wasted more time than time was saved, same goes for exploration.

As for grinding faster..ehh.. you know you can push 'm' and your next step is a guaranteed battle? that'll save grinding time more. Also, you can disable spell animations in the config thing....That kinda broke the game in some areas though, I forget what because I've never done it myself. I forget if 3.01 fixed those issues or not.

Yeah, according to Fraps my FPS is like 160-something, quick but still manageable. And I like it that way.

And I know that you can press M to make the next step a guaranteed fight, it just makes battles in general go quicker along with fully exploring the floors.

I can't find the button which actually does disable spell animations since the config is just in garbled text to me, probably due to lack of AppLocale and my total inability to use it due to not having the damn language files and having lost access to the windows disc long ago, not that the config in general does me much good, since the button that is clearly intended to change the volume of the game doesn't do jack shit.

[XephyrEnigma]

Yeah, according to Fraps my FPS is like 160-something, quick but still manageable. And I like it that way.

And I know that you can press M to make the next step a guaranteed fight, it just makes battles in general go quicker along with fully exploring the floors.

I can't find the button which actually does disable spell animations since the config is just in garbled text to me, probably due to lack of AppLocale and my total inability to use it due to not having the damn language files and having lost access to the windows disc long ago, not that the config in general does me much good, since the button that is clearly intended to change the volume of the game doesn't do jack shit.

Its the second option I think. below the volume slider.

[Ghaleon]

I buffed people's FIR affinity for Tam's Foe.  That and I have a bunch of Bomb Rings anyway, or is 200 affinity and 2000 HP not enough to survive it?

EDIT: Solved the Nitori problem by editing her HP to 1 and attacking.  Back on track with the main game.

Sanae's foe is significantly nastier than tams... but really you can just try and see for yourself.

[I have no name]

Sanae's foe is significantly nastier than tams... but really you can just try and see for yourself.

Sanae's Foe went down easier than Tam's Foe actually.  Granted, I lost 1 party member to each Flowing Hellfire (Youmu, Yuugi and Komachi in that order), but no one else got KOed, unlike Tam's Foe which left me with 7 alive (2 Hellfire KOs, 3 other moves)
Tenshi took more tries to get to than to beat (I swear, if one more Eye of Twilight uses Stygian Ferry on Meiling...)
so now I have nothing to do but face the Eientei crew...and I'm dreading the fight.

[Jq1790]

Sanae's Foe went down easier than Tam's Foe actually.  Granted, I lost 1 party member to each Flowing Hellfire (Youmu, Yuugi and Komachi in that order), but no one else got KOed, unlike Tam's Foe which left me with 7 alive (2 Hellfire KOs, 3 other moves)
Tenshi took more tries to get to than to beat (I swear, if one more Eye of Twilight uses Stygian Ferry on Meiling...)
so now I have nothing to do but face the Eientei crew...and I'm dreading the fight.

What level are you?  Pretty sure something like 53-55 was a good level to go in at or something.