Vanilla Mafia II (Game over, town wins!)

[Serela]

I'm awake!

Ooops I was supposed to go to school three hours ago.

Oh well.

I've never been good at gauging spats. This is why I took the Schezo-Dan spat from yesterday and threw it under a rock, Now there's a Pesco-Shadoweh spat and gdi one of them is most likely being the lynch.

No one even seems to remember how horrible Hero has been being :c

Fine, I can wait on a Hero lynch until tomorrow if I have to. We've got plenty of mislynches. But I really want him dead.

GUT screams that Shadoweh is not scum. If I try to apply logic to this line of thinking I get "scum!Shadoweh would not play like this". If I try to appeal to meta people like Bard did I get "Shadoweh isn't acting like her usual self? Well guess what she's been for the past bajillion games.", which is basically what Bard said.

But reading actual posts says she's scum.

I think I'm going to err on the side of her being town.

Pesco, I keep waffling between whether he's town or scum. I'm just not sure. I'm okay with lynching him I suppose because everyone is going to remain hung-up over it if we don't (You know it's true.), and because information is coolbeans. But I do think it's quite possible that both Pesco and Shadoweh are town.

Not interested in lynching BT, like, at all. Pesco has a good point about Omba, however, and I've been noticing this. Not someone I want to lynch today or probably even tomorrow, but in the future, should be looked into.

Hero still needs to die but everyone else forgot so I'm despairing in the possibility of this.

I just remembered OH HEY PX EXISTS. But he's being useless again. Pro-town+++! I'm okay with lynching him too because his content this game is almost nonexistent.

tl;dr
People I'd like to lynch: PX, Hero (Prefer Hero)
People I wouldn't sigh in disappointment if they were lynched: Pesco
People who are town: Huhwhat, BT, Bard, JOB
Erring on the side of town: Shadoweh
idk: Dormio, Omba

[Kitten4u]

Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX

Not Voting: Shadoweh, JOB

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.  D2 ends in ~10 hours (watch countdown).

[Pesco]

Do I really need to explain the "bandwagon" again?He thought the sudden reversal will make him look bad, so I felt the need to say it.

You felt the need to defend someone that could very well defend themselves and wasn't under any danger of being lynched. How does doing this benefit a town player? What motive is there for you to go this far for Omba?

[BT]

The post you're talking about is the first post I made today. Which means, I responded to a couple of things that happened while I was asleep. One of them was the reversal, and this was merely "my stance" towards it. Yes, I thought it was needed. When I look at it now, not so much. I'm willing to admit that much, but you're making it into something completely different. My thought process was "letting the town know who you think is town is always good, so I may as well". I failed to focus on how much it was actually needed, and what possible conclusions it can create. I can't -prove- that it wasn't out of an intent to 'aid a scum partner' or whatever you're going for here, so I'll let the town make their own decision on the matter.

[Pesco]

Town hunts for scum. We don't care if you can find townies.

[Omba]

Pesco: Case on me. Right now.

[Pesco]

After BT flips.

[BT]

Yeah, it's not like letting people know who you think is town has any value or anything. They can't reinforce/weaken their town read on you at all based on the people you ended up trusting, or anything like that.

Oh, wait, it is important! Because now you know for absolute certain that Omba is scum when I flip scum!


Honestly. Not only is my sarcastic remark very iffy (and this is AFTER assuming I turn out scum), but this is actually one of your reasons for wanting this flip so badly, which is ridiculous. You're the only one pushing for my lynch this far, even when I actually counter most of your reasons. So far, no one has supported this lynch but you, and there are 10 hours until deadline. You've been trying to make a case on me all day, and have had pretty much no progress. In other words, what you're doing now is only confusing people before deadline.

[Omba]

Pesco: Yeah right. That's exactly why I want it right now. Because most likely, we won't lynch BT today.
Actually, if you really want BT dead today, then that's even more reason to make that case now. If your case on me combined with assumed BT scum is really convincing, you might get people to switch to BT over that. You said yourself that part of why you want BT to die today is to look into me. It stands to reason you could get other people to share your view. TODAY.

[Pesco]

I don't need to convince either of you of what I think at this point. I can only hope that the game's other players aren't so retarded as to not pay attention to what flipped townies point out before they die. You worry far too much for just a single vote, that as you say yourself, no one supports.

[BT]

Had I not been worried, you wouldn't be the only one supporting this vote.

[Bardiche]

Phoneposting to balk at Serela's post. Good god, I desire to lynch all of you.

[Omba]

Pesco: Err... Obviously I'm not asking you to convince me to vote BT by making a case on me. I'm asking you to take the risk of actually getting BT instead of Shadoweh lynched today.
The flipped townie thing is funny considering Dan really wanted you dead before he died.

[Pesco]

Your wanting of a case is still irrelevant because you're not voting for BT or Shadoweh. If you aren't asking me to convince you to vote one of them, then what's the point of making a case on you? I don't get what this is supposed to prove.

[Kitten4u]

Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX

Not Voting: Shadoweh, JOB

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.  D2 ends in ~8 hours (watch countdown).

[Omba]

Pesco: If you're scum, killing off Shadoweh today then going for BT tomorrow seems to me like a much better option than the reverse. And setting up a lynch on BT that will not get through today, then continuing tomorrow where you left off today seems like a good way to go about this. Making a case on me right now could only hurt you if you're scum, so I'm asking you to do it.
For that matter, I know there's enough to make a case on me regardless of BT's flip, so that's even more reason to make it right now if you're town, suspect me and think you're going to die today. I'm so not buying the "you don't deserve my reads" thing. No, really.

[Omba]

Oh, also.

There's no need for me to post my suspects because you guys deserve to lose if I did post such a list and you end up following it.

I don't need to convince either of you of what I think at this point. I can only hope that the game's other players aren't so retarded as to not pay attention to what flipped townies point out before they die.

Seriously?

[Pesco]

Explain more clearly how it hurts ScumPesco to make a case on you right now? BT's scumminess drew my attention to you. On your own, I'm undecided on you after all that's been said and done today. Flip BT first and I can make a better evaluation on the voting pattern that I've seen.

Schezo (5): Pesco, huh what, PX, Omba, BT

There's three things you can do in RVS: post nothing, go lolrvs, or try to end RVS by starting serious discussion.
Guess which of these three looks scummy when other people already chose the third option. Not seeing any actual drive to find scum from you there.
More importantly, not seeing any in your posts after this, either.

##Unvote
##Vote Schezo

Guess I thought you were implying that "if one of them is town--> the other is town", which is usually a set-up. That's why I voted, not because I think they both might be scum or something. If that's the case...

##Unvote
##Vote Schezo

Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT

##Unvote
##Vote Pesco

Complete reversal of my read, will probably get me lynched regardless of which of you two gets lynched today and what his flip is, or possibly even before either of you two.
But one of you two is scum and one scum is worth ~6 townies in this game so fuck if I die for it.

Omba is town. NO scum would EVER first get such secure town reads, then knowingly throw it all away with a move like that. Unless, of course, Omba and Shadoweh are scum, which I really don't think is the case, especially after Omba finally decided to change his vote from HW to her.Please please don't make this assumption. There's plenty of chance that PX was town as well, making it easy for scum to be on either wagon as long as one of them succeeds (and that did happen).

About Pesco vs Shadoweh? If you hadn't noticed, my 'big wall of text' basically convicted Pesco without actually convicting him, mostly because I was sure a lynch on him would be nigh impossible and that I'd get even more shit for it, and that I possibly had worse reads. Oh, and was also afraid of getting accused of OMGUS. HW's case just proves me wrong, though.

##Unvote
##Vote Pesco

Yes, this beats the Hero case. Defend yourself please?

What is all this? Let Omba lead and BT follows. Both times, without much backing of the vote from BT. With this interaction I'm pointing out, BT has to flip first because Omba could still be town that scumBT is sheeping after. Omba's Schezo vote is faultless in its context. But Omba's votes today are lacking. Never said much on his HW vote when he made it, fliflop between Shadoweh and myself. There might be something wrong there Omba but BT needs to be lynched first. I think interesting interactions can be uncovered.

Cut: Smart players evaluate the analysis from dead players. Bad players follow it blindly.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

The rest of the links HW provides are all mudslinging themselves, calling Pesco scum for legitimate points, I feel. If Shadoweh votes based on GUT! and someone claims she's Town for it, why is asking for elaboration trying to make her look bad? I just don't see the case, and I'm not too happy with Huh What's claim that "Pesco is less likely to just be terrible Town", which feels like a setup to later abandon the Hero case if the mood strikes him.

I probably should have elaborated on that a bit more.
It didn't feel like the point needed to be brought up. It was fairly obvious Omba wasn't looking for town intent so much as "stuff he didn't think scum would do" (which is silly but that's aside the point), so Pesco's post looked more like he was trying to take advantage of the situation to make Shadoweh look bad rather than a genuine question that needed to be asked. Or at least that's how I felt when reading the interaction.

Not sure what to say to the second thing other than "I have no plans to drop my suspicion of Hero" but I can't really prove that. I want them both dead, really. I just thought I saw more concrete scum intent in Pesco actions, which isn't intended to imply that I didn't feel there wasn't any scum intent in Hero's.

Speaking of which, I really should be writing up my Hero case at this point but I'm honestly really tired of this game and don't even like the POST HUGE PSUEDO-POSTBYPOST WoT CASES EVERYDAY playstyle. :/ I'll see what I can do.

[Kitten4u]

Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX

Not Voting: Shadoweh, JOB

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.  D2 ends in ~7 hours (watch countdown).

[BT]

You're acting like my flip will have some kind of game-changing revelation. If I'm scum, Omba could still very well be town (you've said this yourself). If I'm town, Omba could still be scum. There's no guarantee of anything here anywhere. OK, it could lead to a "better" evaluation. Lynching ANY player (unless they happen to be idle or lacking in content, in which case you wouldn't be lynching them for better reads anyway) could give you better evaluations on an unlimited number of players. It is NOT an excuse to lynch someone, and you're not going to convince people that didn't agree with the rest of your arguments to lynch me over this. In fact, if you're scum, this is a very nice way of wasting a lynch. I flip town, you do whatever you want with a 'better evaluation' and no one can do anything about it.

[Shadoweh]

Hi, uhm, I hate to interupt this wonderful conversation but PX is scum and I feel really stupid about yesterday now.

No seriously. Why the hell is the only person that 'knows' I redirected a town lynch to a town lynch voting for me? The rest of you can WIFOM and argue about omg Shadoweh's scum partner and crap, but PX should be the only one who knows what happened. That might not mean alot to you guys yet but.. No, it really should. It doesn't make any sense.

Wow why are neither of us above 3 votes? This is going to end with a bunch of compromising on both of us, isn't it?

Pesco, do you still think I'm scum?

[Bardiche]

And I, for one, am tired of people complaining they don't want to play after signing up. Clearly though, my complaints won't help, but I believe a post-game discussion regarding this is in order. We need lynch only two scum: we outnumber them a paltry five to one. Now get in there and tell us why Hero is one of those two.

[Bardiche]

Shadomeh, phoneposting at the moment but I like the idea of lynching PX, held back onlyby knowing this bullshit will continue tomorrow... Whatever, PX's flip would lend more information if notjing else, and I like my idea that he's scum. Phoneposting so being succinct, will say more later.

[BT]

Also... (completely unrelated to Shadoweh's PX post, I was cut)

Hi5 Bard.

##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan

I think I'm done with my vote on Schezo. The reactions are good enough and people don't seem interested anymore.
Dan's PX and Dormio votes look OMGUS when read in ISO.

I look forward to what Dan's next post can come up with.

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan

Dear god, that OMGUS is so bad that I'm gonna take another post to explain why it is :|

Gonna have to drop BT seeing as there's no interest. Shadoweh has been making less sense than drunk-posting Dormio on meds. Active lurking and zero scumhunting on Day 1, making a weak vote and trying to weasel out of being caught for the poor voting reason today, and IMO from above, pushing a policy lynch.

##Unvote BT
##Vote Shadoweh

Anyways, none of this stuff is making sense so I'll just stick to what I had earlier, since the Serela lynch isn't happening.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh

Perhaps I can make sense of this stuff after some sleep.

Cut by bards what?

cut afgasin by doemio sleeeeeeeeep no

Do we flip PX now?

[Shadoweh]

BT: Pesco is scum likely to be lynched, why do you care what he says?

*hugs for huh what* Bard is right, it's too early to be fed up, this is going to be a long haul game anyways. Keep townie motivation up! Also if you stay strong you're more likely to be nightkilled. \^.^/

[Omba]

Explain more clearly how it hurts ScumPesco to make a case on you right now?

Assuming it would lead to more people voting BT because of more people interested in information about me gained by lynching BT. It's BT dying today that would hurt a scumPesco; he'd then either have Shadoweh attacking him for another day or would have to waste a NK on someone he could have lynched otherwise.

Smart players evaluate the analysis from dead players. Bad players follow it blindly.

This is true. That wasn't what I was pointing out, though. It's the disconnect between "not going to post my suspects" and "I hope people will follow my analysis". If you had more suspects than you had told us at the point you refused to list your suspects, it doesn't fit. No one can evaluate an analysis that was never posted.

Shadoweh: Do you still think Pesco is scum?

--cut by Shadoweh

[Pesco]

Sure go ahead and flip PX if you want. What Pesco/PX has that's not in Omba/BT is that we've spoken about each other and made it clear that we don't find each other scum. I believe it's a stance that myself and PX will keep until a cop can prove otherwise.

@Shadoweh: You're scummy independent of BT. Your latest call for scumPX makes as much sense as DotS-balance. When we were both tied at 3 votes apiece, I offered myself to die. You want to fight me over who who gets to suicide first?

@Bard: I like to believe that Hero is a good kid and isn't scum. He does his own scumhunting and his tunneling isn't scummy, it's his show of intent.

Cut: If I post a case on YOU, I expect people to vote YOU.

[Kitten4u]

Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX

Not Voting: Shadoweh, JOB

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.  D2 ends in ~6 hours (watch countdown).

[Serela]

Hero lynch isn't happening, my next favorite lynch as I've said is PX, and I see lots of support for a PX lynch!

In other words,

##unvote ##vote PX