"Placeholder Sign [I can't think of a name]" (Spell Card Help Topic IV)

[Marisa Kirisame]

I don't mean this in a condenscending way, but are you talking about the lunatic version of this attack? The lunatic version changes it up so much from the normal or even hard version that it may as well be an entirely different attack. If you do mean lunatic though, what do you mean "follow them?" :O I move left and right, yeah, but the way that they are targeted makes them very hard to read, especially when you have to pay attention to the lasers as well.

I sincerely apologize. I didn't know the RNG began to hate the player on it's lunatic version. I wish I could help.

[Zil]

Wait I think I got it! (unless this is what you're already doing)
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=17419
It's poorly excecuted in that replay, but I recommend watching it. The idea is to misdirect the entire attack, and a nice lane opens up to change direction. I bungle it horribly, but I think this a semi-decent way of doing it. I'll try to get a better example up.

EDIT: This may actually force you to time out the nonspell, unless you're Reimu B or something.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Thanks for the Genetics help. I wasn't able to cap it but I still burnt through less lives than normal to do so. I also unfortnately had to time-out Subterranean Rose..

[nintendonut888]

I sincerely apologize. I didn't know the RNG began to hate the player on it's lunatic version. I wish I could help.

No prob'. I just wanted to make sure we were both on the same page. In case you're wondering, the difference is that instead of one set of triple lasers, Byakuren fires five waves of triple lasers in quick succession.

Anyway, I think I've got both attacks decently now. It's hard to explain, but after studying a replay it feels like something clicked in my head for Cloudy Way. I'm still not as consistent as I want to be, but I can finally fail at the rest of Byakuren on occasion.

Amazingly, I don't think I need help for the rest of Byakuren. All that's left is...to beat her. It may not happen today (well, definitely not today), maybe not tomorrow, maybe not by the end of the year, but mark my words: I will win this.

[Zil]

So does anyone have a way to do stage 3 in UFO (Lunatic mode)? The end seems impossible to me, but I'm sure there's a trick to it. A way to do it without relying on Sanae B would be ideal.

[Lepetit89]

There you go, went through one run just now.

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=17427.

I put a LOT of thought into this stage (Midboss Spellcard is currently at 350+ attempts), especially the part at the end. The last wave is the real problem since the entire ordeal is one giant conflict between summoning a UFO and getting yourself killed. I could not figure out a viable way to summon a UFO amidst all the fairies and shooting it down. If I tried to, I would get killed. If I took my time, the UFO would run off by itself, which is why the last wave is your only shot at shooting it down, or rather, not shooting it down, you have to time it so Ichirin's appearance destroys it.

For that reason, you can only collect the UFO the last big fairy drops to finish the UFO if you want to get the most out of it. However, that's where the problem becomes even more complicated. If you were to, say, go to the right-hand side, dodging the first wave of fairies at that point by being above them, you would auto-collect the items the big fairy dropped, resulting in you being unable to collect enough items for a full Bomb most of the time. Granted, you would survive, but you'd miss out on a bomb. You cannot safely get to the right-hand side without auto-collecting the items, at least I couldn't figure out a way.

In this run, I went for the left-hand side. This option is the best I could figure out to accomplish survival while summoning a UFO AND collecting everything it can offer to me without using a single bomb at any point. The advantage of this route is that you can avoid auto-collecting the items, allowing you to fill the UFO in time. Timing is crucial here, you have to absorb the first waves of bullets coming from the right-hand side by summoning the UFO at the right time so the bullets disappear.

This brings several problems with it.
1) the green UFO dropped by the fairiy does not go to the left all the time. If it goes to the right, this option goes down the drain since you might as well be jumping right into the mouth of whatever those giants mouths in the desert of Tatooine are.
2) the timing is difficult and if you move too quickly, you'll be caught just a few milliseconds before the end, as displayed in the replay.

Eventually, I came to accept that I can either

a) Screw the UFO and just survive everything by going to the right-hand side at the end, slowly making my way towards the left, which is more viable than vice-versa because the first wave comes from the right-hand side, thus ensuring my survival without bombs,
b) summon the UFO, go for the left-hand side, slowly making my way to the right-hand side while praying to whoever is listening to me that the fairies won't be too bullet-happy or
c) summon the UFO regardless of where it goes, use a bomb, slowly make my way to whatever side I'm not on,

then have Ichirin destroy the UFO and collect whatever I want to collect.

For 1CC-attempts, I use option c), it's the safest and most efficient option since the last Bomb-part allows me to finish a bomb. In the replay, you can see b), it also displays why b) is NOT 100% safe.

On that note, 1CC-attempts are nearly identical to this replay. I only start into the stage with one red UFO, which is why I opt for a multicoloured one instead. I also pick up the red UFO last to accurately simulate the colour-transition of the UFO succeeding the destruction of the big one. Accurate simulations are also why I don't fill it entirely.

[Zil]

Thank you, this is extremely helpfull! Hopefully I can get it to work with SanaeA. It takes her a while to destroy the big fairies, but the circling technique should work.

And now I've just remembered another thing I meant to ask about before. What controls whether or not the UFO from the fairy right before midboss Nazrin in stage 1 leaves the screen during her spell or bounces back down. It seems like taking down the nonspell as quickly as possible makes it more likely to stay onscreen, but I don't see why that should even make a difference.

[Lepetit89]

Thank you, this is extremely helpfull! Hopefully I can get it to work with SanaeA. It takes her a while to destroy the big fairies, but the circling technique should work.

And now I've just remembered another thing I meant to ask about before. What controls whether or not the UFO from the fairy right before midboss Nazrin in stage 1 leaves the screen during her spell or bounces back down. It seems like taking down the nonspell as quickly as possible makes it more likely to stay onscreen, but I don't see why that should even make a difference.

Not sure, but I think that would actually make the difference since UFOs stay on-screen only for a certain amount of time. If you take down the NS-pattern quickly, then the UFO will also be on-screen during the Spellcard as long as it's within its timelimit. If you exceed that timelimit by taking too long for the NS-Pattern, then it should be gone.

[Zengeku]

So does anyone have a way to do stage 3 in UFO (Lunatic mode)? The end seems impossible to me, but I'm sure there's a trick to it. A way to do it without relying on Sanae B would be ideal.

Heh. I guess anyone will find this part impossible at one point. But really, get that circling under your skin and it will be really easy to pull off. Regardless of character. (Not entirely sure about the Marisa's or ReimuB but I don't see why they should be problematic.

[Zil]

Not sure, but I think that would actually make the difference since UFOs stay on-screen only for a certain amount of time. If you take down the NS-pattern quickly, then the UFO will also be on-screen during the Spellcard as long as it's within its timelimit. If you exceed that timelimit by taking too long for the NS-Pattern, then it should be gone.

It actually appears that the time it stays on-screen is variable. It follows the same path, ending up in the upper right part of the screen. From there it may continue up and leave, or it may bounce back down. What I meant about the nonspell is that it looks like ending the nonspell quickly makes the UFO turn back down and thus stay on the screen longer than it otherwise would.

[Lepetit89]

That's strange actually, never knew the time varied, only inconsistencies I have noticed seem to be results of a lot of random factors which I cannot quite put my finger on but reproduce. For instance, the UFOs Nazrin drops. If I finish her off with 1 green UFO in stock, the blue one winds up on the right-hand side, with 2 green UFOs in stock, they switch positions.

[Elysia]

So I just attempted (unsuccessfully) to no-focus clear MoF extra. Could someone who knows what they're doing take a look at my run, and see if they can spot anything I'm doing wrong, or a way to improve? I came fairly close, but I'm not quite confident about my ability to take Mishaguji-sama no-focus and I'd like to have more resources than I would have had I not stupidly died at Suwa War.

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=17462

EDIT: Apart from bombing the hell out of Long Leg. That card feels like it exists to screw over no-focus runs.

[I have no name]

So I just attempted (unsuccessfully) to no-focus clear MoF extra. Could someone who knows what they're doing take a look at my run, and see if they can spot anything I'm doing wrong, or a way to improve? I came fairly close, but I'm not quite confident about my ability to take Mishaguji-sama no-focus and I'd like to have more resources than I would have had I not stupidly died at Suwa War.

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=17462

EDIT: Apart from bombing the hell out of Long Leg. That card feels like it exists to screw over no-focus runs.

Alright, I've cleared this without focus once, I'll look at your replay now.
You're clearly a lot better at the stage than I am.
Long Arm and Long Leg, be a little lower, and with the right bomb timing the bomb will cancel out 2 of the full blue rings.  3 bombs used instead of 4+death.  I'd probably just bomb the following nonspell if I were to do it again.
Jade of the Horrid River seemed to go pretty badly, I'd suggest moving downwards with smaller taps, not moving at the bottom until half the bullets redirected, then dashing upwards through the closing gap.
Be more aggressive with the PoC after spells.  That Snake Eats the Coraking Frog death was avoidable.  Obviously don't rush going into the streaming ones.
DON'T LET THE POWER FALL because Froggy braves the Elements drops .8 power, and a death leaves you with 3.2.
Fun fact: My Suwa War history is better than my Red Frog history.  Stay up high in general, the replay I linked to uses only 1 bomb on that spell.
Hope this helps.

Also, here's my replay for reference: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=16074

[Zil]

Apart from bombing the hell out of Long Leg. That card feels like it exists to screw over no-focus runs.

I've tried this a few times before and I think it is generally possible to capture this card. If you are slightly to the side of Suwako (very slightly), you can dodge by moving vertically. Basically back up until nothings coming straight toward you. Also the odds of a bullet being aimed at you is fairly low anyway.

For the fun of it I went and did a no focus run - http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=17463
I think long leg killed me. Yeah, I'd bomb that if you're not sure if you can survive. One death to croaking frog, and every other extra life (3 or something) to seven trees and stones.
I used ReimuA, but not I'm sure if that's better. Sure makes the stage part easier though.

If I finish her off with 1 green UFO in stock, the blue one winds up on the right-hand side, with 2 green UFOs in stock, they switch positions.

After playing a few more times it seems to me like she releases the red UFO on the side you are on, though there could be several factors which effect it.

[I have no name]

I used ReimuA, but not I'm sure if that's better. Sure makes the stage part easier though.

I did some testing a while ago between ReimuA and ReimuB unfocused and found ReimuB to have slightly higher damage-but ReimuA has a much more consistent damage output.  doing a no focus normal run with each of them, I did better with ReimuA despite doing hers first.

[Zil]

J.O.B asked about Murasa's third nonspell a while ago, and I don't think he got an answer, so here's a replay with a timeout of the attack. - http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=17524

The way I do it is to spot that pair of pink bullets that kind of stand out, and go just to the left of them. From there everything else seems to just go past you, though some slight movements may be needed depending on your position. Sometimes I go between the pink bullets because I'm spacing out or something, but going to the left is easier I think.

[Zengeku]

The best way to do that attack is hope that Murasa doesn't act like a jackass. Or mix it up with bullets from the last spell.

[Lepetit89]

J.O.B asked about Murasa's third nonspell a while ago, and I don't think he got an answer, so here's a replay with a timeout of the attack. - http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=17524

Seems like he got banned for whatever reason, but that looks pretty cool, I never even considered touching that pattern because I deemed it waaay too risky. Certainly hate it when the patterns gets mixed up with bullets from the previous Spellcard, though.

[Skyler]

I don't think I've ever survived the first wave of Lunatic "Young Demon Lord". Can someone help?
I still don't understand "Balance of Motion and Silence" either.

[Puffy]

Young demon lord depends on where your positioned, because you could weave right through the waves.

Balance of motion and silence, you could go bottom left/right corner and just move horizontally to the end, then go up to circle it. this is what i do, its not really in a circling manner but it goes in circles.

[nintendonut888]

I don't think I've ever survived the first wave of Lunatic "Young Demon Lord". Can someone help?

There are two basic formations of lasers: One that creates a diamond shape, and one that creates a shape that can be best described as a coffin. This is apt, because dodging the bullets is much harder in between the thin, curved coffin-shaped lasers than in the much wider diamond-shaped formation. What you want to do is to duck into the diamond-shaped formations whenever possible (even if it means not being under Remilia), and dodge as best you can. Try and hug the bottom of the screen. This gives the bullets more time to spread out.

Another thing that is good to know are the peculiar properties of EoSD lasers. Basically, as soon as a laser begin to disappear, their hitbox leaves entirely. This means that if you are absolutely stuck, no bombs or nothing, try waiting out the bullets and dodge through the lasers. If you time it correctly, you will seemingly go right them and survive, because their hitbox no longer exists.

Hope that helps. ^.^

[MTSranger]

I'll chip in as well
First, take a look at this:


You can see that Reimu is standing in a "coffin" shaped space that is much smaller than the "diamond" space to the left.
Now, this is not necessarily a bad decision, as the position of the metal fatigue bullets make the coffin space very safe.
The important thing is:
1. Do NOT stand in the coffin space right under Remillia if she has moved down the screen (i.e. to her vertical position in her first wave); you probably would have to squeeze through very small gaps between the laser and the bullets. It's okay if it were a diamond space though.
2. Standing in a diamond space may be a bad idea if you will be too far up the screen
3. Don't stand in the triangular space near the bottom unless you have to (i.e. ran out of time to move and got stuck).

The next step is reading ahead to see where in the laser space you should stand in <-- you have very little time for this.
Sometimes, this is hard, as both sides have very narrow gaps (in which case you probably picked the wrong laser space to stand in, but too late), in which case only experience can help you.

As seen in the next picture, you should NOT stand on the right side of the coffin space or else you are walled.
Similarly, if you were standing in the diamond space, you should slightly right and brace yourself to go between metal fatigue bullets.
(Alternatively, stand near the middle of the space and go to the gap between the metal fatigue and the bubble).



Since we have read correctly, we are now ready to go through the bullets.



Here, the bullets have spread out and the obvious paths are visible.
When you are dodging, try to take notice of the spaces. There are generally 3 types of spaces:
1. bubble-bubble
2. bubble-metal fatigue bullet
3. between two metal fatigue bullets

#1 is generally the safest, and #2 can be either safe or really dangerous (say, if the 2 bullets overlap).
#3 requires some precision and make sure you LOOK AT your hitbox, cuz the trajectory of the bullet can confuse you and make you misread.

The deaths in this spell card usually are:
1. ***** misread the gap / movement mistake as you are going through and get clipped by bubble or metal fatigue bullets *****
2. did not read the gap in time and get walled as you back up to the bottom of the screen OR misread where you should've stood in the space, causing you to hit the laser as you try to move around the bullets
3. get stuck in the small triangular spaces near the bottom <-- this is usually not lethal since Remillia will be far up the screen for this to happen, so the bullets are more spread out, allowing you to have some wiggle room to get through at least the first wave most of the time (the only situation where there is a high risk of clip death is if a bubble and a very nearby - as in overlapping - metal fatigue bullet both go through the space).

The clip deaths usually happen when you are trying to dodge a dense wave (as in, all gaps are pretty risky) inside a "coffin" space. This happens especially when Remillia moves down, causing the laser spaces to be smaller (cuz they get cut of by the bottom of screen) and the bullets to be closer together. Be ULTRA careful when you have to get through a small space and FOCUS (look at) your hitbox.

Lastly, don't be afraid to change lanes when you dodge the bubbles (i.e. say, you were dodging on the very very left side of the "space" in the laser, and then the gap is too small, you can back up and move around to the right side of the "space" instead)

[Zil]

I think you can actually do Yukari's spell with only horizontal movement if you quickly zip to the other side of the screen once you pass the middle. It's like streaming and turning. I know Gil pulled it off in his no vertical run. Granted, he's Gil, but I've managed it myself and I think it's easier than circling back over.
For Remilia's definately watch out for when she moves down, because the bullets can reach you before the lasers dissappear unless you move out from under her. I believe the diamonds are usually better than the coffins, as Donut said, because the the bullets are randomly oriented with respect to the lasers, and diamonds give you more room.

[Elysia]

Phantom of the Grand Guignol. How do?

Only Last Word I've unlocked but not capped, thanks to recent caps of Fantasy Heaven and Tree Ocean of Hourai.

[Zil]

It's completely static. You can do all vertical movement to dodge it, until the streaming. After that move back to the center. The second wave is not identical to the first, and may require horizontal movement.
I've got an old replay - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OO7ZB279Bw
It starts about 3 minutes into the video.

[I have no name]

Phantom of the Grand Guignol. How do?

Only Last Word I've unlocked but not capped, thanks to recent caps of Fantasy Heaven and Tree Ocean of Hourai.

Memorization.
It took me a half hour of grinding the spell to capture, then one of my friends captured it randomly in one try by moving randomly >.>

[BT]

Yeah, that's enough. Way too many great runs, including one No Deaths, tarnished single-handedly by this card alone in the time span of... too little time.

Genetics. Evil. Help???

[MTSranger]

Genetics
Koishi moves towards you on every 4th movement (she moves toward you after the "charge" sound). Use this to your advantage.
First, keep shooting her as much as possible,

The first time she aims to you, she will be at the top right corner of the screen (I think...). Misdirect her to the very left of the screen, half way (or 1/3 of way) above the bottom of the screen. This way you have time to shoot before she goes to the very bottom.

The second time she aims toward you, you (and she) will be at the bottom right of the screen, so, before you get hit by her, you move left and circle clockwise around the screen (go to the very top of the screen to give yourself space!). By the time you are done, she will be at top left corner, and you will have some free time to shoot her before she moves again.

Now, rince and repeat.

[Lord Scalgon]

Currently trying to perfect SA Stage 1 Lunatic...but the problem is Yamame's 1st non-card.  I tried to follow Drayen's way of dodging, but I end up dying every single time.  What's the best way to get past it?

(I can do everything else, however, even her cards.)

[MTSranger]

Yamame's opener only tries to BS you when she moves down, so if you simply want a perfect, you could just play a couple of times and get lucky enough that she moves up on the first wave (around 30% of the time from my experience).

If you wish to dodge her opener when she moves down, then as soon as the bullets are aimed, get the heck out of there to the far left or far right side. Timing is critical here, as you need to make sure the 2 aimed waves are aimed near the center while your character is out of the way to the side of the screen (i.e. you can't simply unfocus dash really far right on the moment - you have to stay in the region for a split second more). I'm sure other people can give more pointers on this.