Author Topic: Nue Quest Vth Vanguard: A Z-Machine Adventure (Read 41947 times)

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #450 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:06:03 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 12:53:52 AM

> "Well, uh, he said the beauty of the exchanged 'violates the idea of equivalency'. He cited an illiterate man giving him a rare book in exchange for a bag of beans as an example. By capitalist standards, there's no question who came out ahead, but the illiterate man has no use for the book and could grow plenty of food with the beans while he himself may find the book worthless. And that this exchange could happen a dozen times, and it would be different each time because of the circumstances of the people involved. Then he said that 'a kind of friction' is created with each such exchange, which created what he described as 'a spark'. Which he claims he can harvest somehow."

>Patchouli nods, and says, "So he is insane. Now it all makes sense."

>_

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #451 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:08:10 AM »

>"Um, could you clarify?"

Also, I know how we can deal with Rinnosuke: Flandre. She doesn't have to get to her target or even shoot at it. She just squeezes and things go 'boom'.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #452 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:09:10 AM »

> "And it wouldn't surprise me. I think he's just power hungry, though. But I'm not exactly an expert on this particular topic."

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #453 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:19:59 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 01:09:10 AM

> "And it wouldn't surprise me. I think he's just power hungry, though. But I'm not exactly an expert on this particular topic."

>"Oh he is, but not in any sense you understand," says Patchouli.

Quote from: GuyYouMetOnline on August 10, 2011, 01:08:10 AM

>"Um, could you clarify?"

>"To summarize it easily," says Paychouli, "what you are witnessing is the faith of a madman. Well, more mad than most faithful sorts."
>You think you note Byakuren sigh, just a little.
>"Everything he said to you is, as far as he is concerned, the most solid of facts. He truly does believe in that power he talked about, he believes in it so strongly that he likely could not even imagine a world where it does not exist. His faith in this concept became strong enough that, simply put, it became real for him. It's no different than Sanae or Reimu tossing those silly talismans around, really. And when that faith grew strong enough that it truly began to affect the world, I shouldn't have to describe the spiral it created."
>She chuckles.
>"Devilish bastard. I never suspected for a minute, and all the signs were there to be seen."

>_

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #454 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:28:37 AM »

> What do we know of the power of faith?

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #455 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:40:35 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 01:28:37 AM

> What do we know of the power of faith?

>Shrine maidens and priestly sorts have been a pain in your butt all throughout the old days. As a youkai, faith; or at least human faith; can be directed against you and hold you at bay or drive you back. It might even be able to exorcise you entirely; you've never had the misfortune to find out. One of the major reasons you were only a periodic menace to the Mikado was due to his priests, you couldn't just barge in whenever you pleased and even sneaking in was difficult.

>_

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #456 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:44:18 AM »

>"Wait, so that stuff he said is true, and it's true because he thinks it's true?"

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #457 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:46:08 AM »

> "How annoyingly tautological. Is there a way to break this death spiral?"

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #458 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:49:55 AM »

Quote from: GuyYouMetOnline on August 10, 2011, 01:44:18 AM

>"Wait, so that stuff he said is true, and it's true because he thinks it's true?"

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 01:46:08 AM

> "How annoyingly tautological. Is there a way to break this death spiral?"

>"Quite," says Patchouli. "His faith is so strong and so steadfast that, simply put, the world around him has reacted to it. This is the kind of thing that, in less broken people, would likely result in the birth of a new god. Now, when you say break it, in what sense do you mean?"

>_

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #459 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:53:17 AM »

> "Well, I'm not good with magical details, so I'll settle for anything that can stop this from happening now and make it extremely unlikely it will ever occur again."
> Glance at Byakuren, then back to Patchouli.
> "Uh, with as little physical damage as possible."

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #460 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:05:24 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 01:53:17 AM

> "Well, I'm not good with magical details, so I'll settle for anything that can stop this from happening now and make it extremely unlikely it will ever occur again."
> Glance at Byakuren, then back to Patchouli.
> "Uh, with as little physical damage as possible."

>Patchouli nods. "Well, the best way to stop it would be to treat his madness. I doubt that is viable at the moment. Another way would be to beat him at his own game, which I imagine would be difficult. I suppose it may be possible to find a way to trick him into acting in a way contrary to his view of the universe, much like tricking a shrine maiden into committing cannibalism or defiling a shrine or some such. I suspect it may be possible to trump his faith with a different kind that can naturally overwhelm his. This would also be difficult, I imagine, you would need to find something as strongly aligned as he, and outmaneuver him with it. I doubt any of our resident shrine maidens would be up to that task."

>_

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #461 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:11:47 AM »

> "I think I tried one of those already, when I tried to point out that the sparks he mentioned would effectively serve as the new currency in his system since they didn't serve any other functional purpose, but he claimed they actually did before I got to that point, so that idea went out the window. Of course, it was accompanied by some BS about how it would take him too long to explain what purpose they served, so maybe he was lying to save face, but from what you've said it sounds like he wasn't."

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #462 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:13:20 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 02:11:47 AM

> "I think I tried one of those already, when I tried to point out that the sparks he mentioned would effectively serve as the new currency in his system since they didn't serve any other functional purpose, but he claimed they did before I got to that point, so that idea went out the window. Of course, it was accompanied by some BS about how it would take him too long to explain, so maybe he was lying to save face, but from what you've said it sounds like he wasn't."

>Patchouli nods. "Tell me more about these sparks?"

>_

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #463 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:21:44 AM »

> "I asked him if anyone could harvest the sparks. He said that one needs to fully appreciate the beauty of the exchange to be able to harvest them. They must 'know it and feel it'. He compared it to looking a piece of artwork in passing versus 'stopping and appreciating each detail that went into its crafting'. Understanding its history and its maker."

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #464 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:29:08 AM »

>"What if we went after his mind directly? I know for a fact that mind-reading is possible; it may also be possible to go the other way, to plant something in his mind. Although I wouldn't know how to; I'd probably need to speak to Satori about that. But if it's possible, then we could plant something in his mind. Something that would get him to 'act in a way contrary to his view of the universe'. Or what if we planted a thought, something that would make him question his course of action?"

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #465 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:35:12 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 02:21:44 AM

> "I asked him if anyone could harvest the sparks. He said that one needs to fully appreciate the beauty of the exchange to be able to harvest them. They must 'know it and feel it'. He compared it to looking a piece of artwork in passing versus 'stopping and appreciating each detail that went into its crafting'. Understanding its history and its maker."

>"In short," says Patchouli, "They would need to be as mad as he."

Quote from: GuyYouMetOnline on August 10, 2011, 02:29:08 AM

>"What if we went after his mind directly? I know for a fact that mind-reading is possible; it may also be possible to go the other way, to plant something in his mind. Although I wouldn't know how to; I'd probably need to speak to Satori about that. But if it's possible, then we could plant something in his mind. Something that would get him to 'act in a way contrary to his view of the universe'. Or what if we planted a thought, something that would make him question his course of action?"

"It's plausible," says Patchouli. "I don't know if he would have mental defenses of that kind of caliber. Certainly, if tricking a shrine maiden would work, so would compelling him. The difficult part would be finding a way to do it. Asking Satori, even broadly, would be a good way to get her to sic her pets on you."

>_

Rin Kagamine · « **Reply #466 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:47:35 AM »

Guy we're not going to use Satori for this. Get over it.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #467 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:51:09 AM »

> "What about the thing you mentioned where he's tricked into doing something contradictory to his world view? That seems like it would be a good place to start. What could we trick him into doing that would run counter to this faith? I imagine it'd be hard to get him to use currency to buy something without him noticing."

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #468 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:57:41 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 02:51:09 AM

> "What about the thing you mentioned where he's tricked into doing something contradictory to his world view? That seems like it would be a good place to start. What could we trick him into doing that would run counter to this faith? I imagine it'd be hard to get him to use currency to buy something without him noticing."

>"That's the hard part," says Patchouli. "If this were just a shrine maiden, it would be easy. We know what they can and cannot do. In Rinnosuke's case, we can only make educated guesses. I have a feeling the sparks are a key, no doubt they are the source of his miracles."
>"Must you inisist on calling them that?" says Byakuren.
>"They certainly aren't proper spells," says Patchouli, "And they are powered by faith. Just because we do not like them does not mean they are any less miraculous. As I was saying, We know his idea centers around exchanges and exploiting the ideological inequalities around it..."

>_

>_

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #469 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:02:17 AM »

GIRLS ARE THINKING

please wait warmly

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #470 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:05:53 AM »

MAUS WHERE ARE YOU ;_;

> "...maybe tricking him into throwing something away? Or trading something for nothing?"

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #471 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:14:56 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 03:05:53 AM

MAUS WHERE ARE YOU ;_;

> "...maybe tricking him into throwing something away? Or trading something for nothing?"

>"Hmm," says Patchouli.
>"The latter sounds like it might have promise," says Byakuren. "But it would be pretty difficult. Even a worthless thing is still a thing..."

>_

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #472 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:15:52 AM »

> "What about making an objectively even trade? One thing for that same thing. No paradox to be had there, no spark to be generated."

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #473 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:25:44 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 03:15:52 AM

> "What about making an objectively even trade? One thing for that same thing. No paradox to be had there, no spark to be generated."

>"It might work," says Patchouli.
>"What would be objectively even, though?" says Byakuren.

>_

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #474 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:27:45 AM »

> "Two of the same thing, I'd imagine."

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #475 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:50:11 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 03:27:45 AM

> "Two of the same thing, I'd imagine."

>Byakuren nods.

>_

GuyYouMetOnline · « **Reply #476 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:52:18 AM »

>"He'd probably be unlikely to make such a trade, though. Not much point in trading something for itself, you know."
>Take out a Seed of Non-Identification.
>"Of course, I might be able to help with that little issue."

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #477 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:57:05 AM »

Quote from: GuyYouMetOnline on August 10, 2011, 03:52:18 AM

>"He'd probably be unlikely to make such a trade, though. Not much point in trading something for itself, you know."
>Take out a Seed of Non-Identification.
>"Of course, I might be able to help with that little issue."

>Byakuren nods. "Indeed you could..."
>"I would be careful about that," says Patchouli. "I imagine he's probably able to discern minor differences, like different craftsmen, times of creation, and so on."

>_

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #478 on:** August 10, 2011, 04:02:13 AM »

> Frown.
> "Would that be a problem? I was wondering about asking Marisa if she still has one of those tacky aprons of hers, since I know he has one, but if even those sorts of things are enough to generate a meaningful difference for him..."

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #479 on:** August 10, 2011, 04:08:24 AM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 10, 2011, 04:02:13 AM

> Frown.
> "Would that be a problem? I was wondering about asking Marisa if she still has one of those tacky aprons of hers, since I know he has one, but if even those sorts of things are enough to generate a meaningful difference for him..."

>"How would I know if it's a problem?" says Patchouli, "I'm not the insane merchant. I am just saying, be careful about what you offer, I expect he could sniff out minuscule differences."
>"Oh yes, speaking of Marisa," says Byakuren, "she's out trying to find Reimu. She and Patchouli had a bad feeling about her situation."
>"Frankly," says Patchouli, "We suspect that she's followed up on one of the theories we considered last night, and went to Makai to have a 'word' with Shinki."

>_