Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Sara's Audio-Visual Import-Overflow Retail => Topic started by: Ghaleon on March 29, 2011, 05:17:26 PM
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I've seen it a few times this week, and I can't for the life of me respect people who are like "bawwww, if this game has a single frame censored, I'm not buying it!" or whatever.
For example, I saw some people QQing about the word filter on Elsword, ok, the word filter is silly and stupid, yes, but seriously? You're going to let such a silly minor thing decide whether or not you'll play a game entirely? I think that's stupid and childish. Another example is how I saw people talk about Ar Tonelico 3. "If they censor a single scene in this game, IM NOT BUYING IT". Seriously? Do people ever really mean this or are they just bullshitting? I mean, I'd assume they were full of shit but I see this stuff so often, and nobody ever seems to tell them their reaction looks really lame and childish but me, and nobody agrees to boot.
WTF gives? Why are some people so against a little bit of censorship? I'm not saying it's good, but "not going to try/buy/support/whatever" bad?! get a grip.
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AT3 was censored?
I dunno, censorship really bothers me if it means taking content out of a game during localization (Hi, Yakuza 3). If it's just a text censor or an edit to a movie so it doesn't look like an adult male is diddling a young girl (sup Xenosaga), I'm not really likely to care. It's a problem with society, not with the games themselves.
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Word filters are one thing. I can see why they'd put them in place to appease rating boards. Oftentimes they lead to more humorous results from either common words being censored or the efforts people go in order to say their favorite 4 letter words. The content itself and the experience of the game isn't diminished though just because you can't say fuck and fag and bitch.
But censoring actual game content is a whole different can of worms and something everyone should be up in arms for. It's fiction, you shouldn't be censored because your content is "indecent" or "obscene" to some people. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Noone's forcing you to play it. And "for the children" is retarded because 7 of the top 10 bestsellers this year were M rated titles. Almost every retail chain has policies in place to restrict M rated titles from minors and It's obvious parents don't give a crap and are just buying games regardless of the ratings.
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AT3 was censored?
I dunno, censorship really bothers me if it means taking content out of a game during localization (Hi, Yakuza 3). If it's just a text censor or an edit to a movie so it doesn't look like an adult male is diddling a young girl (sup Xenosaga), I'm not really likely to care. It's a problem with society, not with the games themselves.
AT3 was NOT censored, but I just saw older posts about people crying about how they wouldn't buy it if it was, without even knowing what, if anything, would have been.
I can respect people complaining about something important being censored, even if it's a matter of opinion, but it seems like people have no middle ground with it. It's like if the slightest most simple unimportant thing is censored, they act like the product is 100% ruined and unfit for purchase. Or they'll use it as an excuse to pirate it. "DURR I was going to buy the game but I decided to pirate it instead because Sgt. Matthews says "get lost" instead of "fuck off" in chapter 2!".
Actually, I just thought of a real example, also fairly recently, I've seen a few people claim they WERE going to buy Hyperdimension Neptunia, but decided not to because they changed the box art so Neptune's hand is positioned in front of her cleavage. Totally a facepalm reason IMO, if anything, I LIKE the change since the game as a whole really isn't the fan-service porn fest that people make it out to be. After the first 10 minutes, the game really is pretty normal in that department. But even if I didn't like it, I certainly wouldn't claim to not buy the game solely for that reason alone.
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Oftentimes they lead to more humorous results from either common words being censored
In the case of the 5th gen Pokemon games, it's a slight inconvenience, actually. An English language Cofagrigus (http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/563.shtml) can't be traded over the global trade network without a nickname, because of word filters.
Other than that, I'm inclined to agree with Edible on this one.
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It's a problem with society, not with the games themselves.
OH MY GOD THIS ANIME CONTAINS A BATH SCENE WHY IS IT ALWAYS PANDERING TO THE PEDOPHILES
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I can respect people complaining about something important being censored, even if it's a matter of opinion, but it seems like people have no middle ground with it. It's like if the slightest most simple unimportant thing is censored, they act like the product is 100% ruined and unfit for purchase. Or they'll use it as an excuse to pirate it. "DURR I was going to buy the game but I decided to pirate it instead because Sgt. Matthews says "get lost" instead of "fuck off" in chapter 2!".
Actually, I just thought of a real example, also fairly recently, I've seen a few people claim they WERE going to buy Hyperdimension Neptunia, but decided not to because they changed the box art so Neptune's hand is positioned in front of her cleavage. Totally a facepalm reason IMO, if anything, I LIKE the change since the game as a whole really isn't the fan-service porn fest that people make it out to be. After the first 10 minutes, the game really is pretty normal in that department. But even if I didn't like it, I certainly wouldn't claim to not buy the game solely for that reason alone.
This reminds me how hundreds of people were up in arms against the game Alan Wake, calling Remedy liars and sellouts and cancelling pre-orders left and right because someone took screenshots of the game, zoomed in 500%, and counted pixels to ensure that every frame was rendered at the 720p that the 360 is capable of doing, and found that some parts of some frames weren't.
It seems like the majority of people who play video games are the kind of people who overreact, have no sense of perspective, and take what they get for granted. Or if it's not a majority, then it's a very, very large and vocal minority. Cancelling a pre-order and crying foul against a game company because minor changes that have some relationship to censorship are made is infantile. I could understand it if the changes made alter an important part of the game, like if they removed or changed the scene in Silent Hill 2 where Pyramid Head performs very suggestive acts with two Mannequins on a counter, but if it's removing unnecessary fanservice or changing an inconsequential word or two, then it's just ridiculous.
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Do these people think that boycotting is going to do anything? I mean to me, it's like some fat spoiled pervy potty mouth isn't getting there way and complaining and since they aren't getting their money the company would be better off without them.
Also I kind of have the opposite problem. I get confused when there aren't any censors and my words aren't replaced, I come off sounded a lot dumber than I do in real life.
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In the case of the 5th gen Pokemon games, it's a slight inconvenience, actually. An English language Cofagrigus (http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/563.shtml) can't be traded over the global trade network without a nickname, because of word filters.
Wait. Is that for real? That's just... Silly. :3
Sharing a point with some people here. If the censorship is only a couple of words then there's no problem, and you can still enjoy the game fully. Other minor details go here, too. Taking the Pokemon example, in Pokemon Colosseum they made your sidekick's skirt longer, as well as her shirt.
But it it means removing an entire important scene, then... It's a bit of a let down. Not enough to make one avoid getting the localized version at all costs, tough. They'd have to remove enough stuff that the entire story makes no sense at all for that to happen, and I don't know of any game that had such a thing happen.
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Actually in the case of censorship, boycotting does the exact opposite of what you think. It means that companies will have less and less reason to fight pressure from rating boards and groups, and in the end it's exactly what the censors want, you to not buy those products.
If anything you should be buying those products, but at the same time putting pressure on the producers and developers and on the boards to loosen said restrictions. Even better (if you can) would be to import out of region copies to stifle sales of in-region censored products while still supporting the company.
You have to realize, the enemy isn't the company but the ratings groups. By boycotting the games you're not hurting the ratings groups at all, in fact you're helping them by removing incentives to produce such products and directly punishing companies who do. What you should be doing is supporting those games so companies grow clout to be able to push back at the boards, and then pressuring the boards yourselves with your votes.
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Wait. Is that for real? That's just... Silly. :3
Yup. The way I understand it, part of Cofagrigus' name came from "sarcophagus" and "egregious", and due to space constraints, had to be shortened somehow. At the same time, there's a filter in place to keep people from trading Pokemon with offensive words in their names over the GTS. So...yeah.
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If I recall correctly, La Pucelle: Tactics was censored when it was released in North America; they removed all the crosses/religious context or something. That was silly.
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Actually in the case of censorship, boycotting does the exact opposite of what you think. It means that companies will have less and less reason to fight pressure from rating boards and groups, and in the end it's exactly what the censors want, you to not buy those products.
If anything you should be buying those products, but at the same time putting pressure on the producers and developers and on the boards to loosen said restrictions. Even better (if you can) would be to import out of region copies to stifle sales of in-region censored products while still supporting the company.
You have to realize, the enemy isn't the company but the ratings groups. By boycotting the games you're not hurting the ratings groups at all, in fact you're helping them by removing incentives to produce such products and directly punishing companies who do. What you should be doing is supporting those games so companies grow clout to be able to push back at the boards, and then pressuring the boards yourselves with your votes.
this is too logical to ever be tried :fail:
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If I recall correctly, La Pucelle: Tactics was censored when it was released in North America; they removed all the crosses/religious context or something. That was silly.
Um... Yeah, no, they didn't remove religious context :V The main characters work for the Church of a Goddess and fight demons.
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The Australian version of Left 4 Dead 2 had a perfect amount of censorship.
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The Australian version of Left 4 Dead 2 had a perfect amount of censorship.
>Australian version
Anyone at all surprised by this? :] I'm still curious as to why Australia are implementing censorship in this manner.
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The Australian version of Left 4 Dead 2 had a perfect amount of censorship.
Lmao, it got banned IIRC.
Back on topic, I'm fine with bad words or bloody stuff being censored or not, but stuff like nudity (private parts showing) definetely needs to be censored.
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It seems like the majority of people who play video games are the kind of people who overreact, have no sense of perspective, and take what they get for granted. Or if it's not a majority, then it's a very, very large and vocal minority.
I'd say this is the root of the problem. Case in point? The lead up to the release of any new Touhou game. The inflated sense of entitlement some players have is astounding, and their reactions to not getting what they want, or getting something different, make old Sicilian widows at a funeral look composed and understated.
Crying about censorship is just a part of this, like you said. In the bigger picture, there is a prevalent attitude in the gaming world that the developer works for ME, and must cater to every single one of MY exact standards, or else the company has done something so terrible they should be dragged behind a train by their ankles.
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Lmao, it got banned IIRC.
It did, but then Valve made a censored version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH7QCtuaXgI) a month later.
TBH, I really don't mind censorship in my games, mostly because I'm too busy appreciating the actual gameplay.
Edit: I'd like to point out the L4D2 Cut version has a notable advantage over the UnCut one. No riot infected. :getdown:
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QFT.
Case in point: I mentioned the Xperia Play once in a conversation, a friend of mine got curious upon hearing about a PSP-enabled phone.
When I showed him pictures, of all the things he could have an opinion over, he said "well the buttons are small, that's disgusting."
... uh.
On censorship, there are though rare occasions when 'censorship' is done on purpose by the developers as part of the experience.
The example I know of this is Kane & Lynch 2. All scenes of nudity or possible disfiguration and gore have censor grids on the explicit areas, but in this case the effect that has is opposite of common censorship, in the sense that it increases the feeling of pure violence of the acts being commited, instead of trying to mask or reduce it.
It's something I love about that game, it's so intelligent.
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It did, but then Valve made a censored version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH7QCtuaXgI) a month later.
The uncut one actually looks more gruesome cause there aren't comical amounts of blood covering the screen to obscure your vision of the violence :V
it increases the feeling of pure violence of the acts being commited
you freak :V :V :V :V :V :V :V :V
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Actually in the case of censorship, boycotting does the exact opposite of what you think. It means that companies will have less and less reason to fight pressure from rating boards and groups, and in the end it's exactly what the censors want, you to not buy those products.
Yeah, once I tried to say pretty much the same thing to such cryers, that their "voting via wallets" aren't communicating what exactly they are voting for. The game sucks overall? They don't like the censoring? They don't think it has enough censoring? They don't like the company? They don't like regional non-censor related changes?
It's stupid to assume not doing something to a big company expecting to sell thousands of something will get a message other than "not worth making as much as we hoped".
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Back on topic, I'm fine with bad words or bloody stuff being censored or not, but stuff like nudity (private parts showing) definetely needs to be censored.
This is very weird to me. Why is nudity more offensive than than people being hurt and/or killed?
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you freak :V :V :V :V :V :V :V :V
man I totally play L4D for the romance :V
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This is very weird to me. Why is nudity more offensive than than people being hurt and/or killed?
Applying the censorship question to other media, this question still fits. I personally think it's a holdover from Puritan days, when the body was regarded as the source of sin, a prison for the soul. The body was to be hated. This grim Protestant shame of the body has carried over to present day in America, making it outrageous and offensive when the body is exposed and/or experiencing pleasure, but acceptable and even desirable when it is being punished.
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This is very weird to me. Why is nudity more offensive than than people being hurt and/or killed?
I don't know the logic myself, but I too, as a born and raised North American, get weirded out a bit by nudity, but not violence. A LOT of people are like me, and while I don't think games should be made to cater to that admitably screwy aspect of myself and others, it should be made to fit in the image's opinion of what's considered "acceptable content".
Of course, as TSO stated, games rated 'M' are more than capable of being great sellers regardless. But I can understand if the developers/localizers want to keep the game's rating down to what their target audience is at the very least. Though, game developers have started to realize that the ideal target audience (in terms of sales) is everyone, and by everyone, non-"tomboy" girls and children too, and that the ESRB rating as a whole, doesn't really alter that significantly I don't think.
Anyway, point is there's a very large number of people who find nudity creepy, and violence ok here in NA, and even if it's weird or doesn't make sense to have that mindset, it's simply true, and I reckon localizers don't want to alienate that very large, very real portion of the area with their game.
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This is very weird to me. Why is nudity more offensive than than people being hurt and/or killed?
Like what Ghaleon said, I get weirded out by nudity but not violence. I find excessive swearing to be funny, though. "OH MY MOTHER **** KNEE IT **** HURTS" and I start giggling.
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Like what Ghaleon said, I get weirded out by nudity but not violence. I find excessive swearing to be funny, though. "OH MY MOTHER **** KNEE IT **** HURTS" and I start giggling.
And why don't you question why something that is harmless bothers you while people being hurt does not, rather than advocating one be censored as though it were objectively bad and act as if the other is fine?
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So uh, you two admit that you don't know the logic behind being weirded out by nudity, but you are, and so it should be censored, period?
fakee: What Purvis said.
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I will fully admit that I am more comfortable with violence in media/entertaiment than sex. Maybe it's because I've been socially conditioned that way after being born into such a society, but as unreasonable as is it, the discrepancy exists. :ohdear:
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I think then I'm the only one who's completely fine with sex and weirded out by gory violence. I dunno, I guess it's just my Good Karma Sense acting up or sumthing :wat:
Rape is the complete exception to this though. It's more an act of violence and complete violation than love and purity and life and all of that, and that disgusts me... Specially if the raped party actually loved the rapist up until that point.
Oh my god I'm giving myself nightmares :ohdear:
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Maybe it's just because I'm from North America :V
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I will fully admit that I am more comfortable with violence in media/entertaiment than sex. Maybe it's because I've been socially conditioned that way after being born into such a society, but as unreasonable as is it, the discrepancy exists. :ohdear:
Well clearly the discrepancy exists, but should it, and should it affect the way censorship works, at any rate?
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Me, I feel as if I'm not supposed to see someone's private body parts. A person may want me to see their privates, but I don't. It's that really bad feeling (probably guilt?) I get when I break some sort of rule. That's just me, though. I'm not trying to make an argument here. Others may think nudity is offensive, disgusting, etc.
What are your thoughts?
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What are your thoughts?
That America is still in the Colonial Period when it comes to the human body. I'd far sooner take nudity over violence, for the simple reason of what's being depicted. I don't get being offended by nudity but being *shrug* about violence.
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Christ... I don't know why people think I'm a raging hipocrite or idiot on the net all the time.
I said this for a reason:
A LOT of people are like me, and while I don't think games should be made to cater to that admitably screwy aspect of myself and others
Basically, I can respect, and even encouraging censoring of silly things such as what I'm discussing not for myself, or people like me specifically, but because I don't want the game's potential sales to suffer because it's not catering to the local audience, who most likely, are not as self-aware about their own odd behavior traits like myself.
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Speaking of censorship, whats going on with youtubes "Safe comments" thing?
I wonder how it works and chooses to block ALL comments, and if the same thing is done for video names or not...
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Speaking of censorship, whats going on with youtubes "Safe comments" thing?
I wonder how it works and chooses to block ALL comments, and if the same thing is done for video names or not...
IIRC Youtube set up a safety mode function about a year ago and I guess it started to derp up recently. Turning Safety mode off does nothing for me.
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Christ... I don't know why people think I'm a raging hipocrite or idiot on the net all the time.
I said this for a reason:
Basically, I can respect, and even encouraging censoring of silly things such as what I'm discussing not for myself, or people like me specifically, but because I don't want the game's potential sales to suffer because it's not catering to the local audience, who most likely, are not as self-aware about their own odd behavior traits like myself.
... yeah, but no, I don't think censorship should be regulated by the perspective of selling a game or not. I mean, that's just wrong.
It's putting aside logic and reasoning in favour of settling with a given mentality just for the money.
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If I recall correctly, La Pucelle: Tactics was censored when it was released in North America; they removed all the crosses/religious context or something. That was silly.
Not really. They just tried to make it seem less like the main religion was Christianity.
Of course, they still left Croix's name untouched but maybe they didn't think the average Jeau would get it.
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I mostly encounter violence in video games, but that's probably because the FPS genre appeals to me the most. I played Doom in kindergarten (woooo) so I'd say that desensitized me to violence, at least in video game form. And I found it odd, but I was a bit taken aback when I was playing Call of Duty: Black Ops and was sorta mortified that I could shoot off a person's arm. For whatever reason, that didn't bother me in Left 4 Dead 2, but I think that's because I view zombies as monsters and not humans.
In terms of censorship I find it ridiculous when games are censored to a point where, despite there stil being violence, it's depicted as having almost no result other than a body falling down and going *poof*. I agree with the sentiment that censoring violence in such a way makes it seem almost harmless, and takes away from what's really happening, even if it is virtual. I realize this doesn't discuss censoring sexual themes, but frankly I don't encounter that a whole lot in video games. That may change if Duke Nukem Forever comes out. BV
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Regarding the sub-topic: I don't understand why seeing a natural part of the body is more jarring than seeing someone's head blown up. There's a big difference between nudity and sex though, so while seeing the Statue of David (http://cics.bsu.edu/cicsworld/nmcewan/files/2010/10/StatueDavid.jpg) isn't weird at all for me, if there were uncensored sex scenes in a game, it would be kind of awkward just because I wouldn't expect something like that in media (even though I think it's more "normal" than violence by far, I'd just be kind of shocked that it got through the censors). And I still don't understand why it's considered so bad and secret and unholy, but meh, that's another topic altogether, and it's not something I'd really want to discuss here.
For the main topic, it really depends on what's censored. Making Ganon's blood green, bleeping out some swear words, or cutting out a small scene or two really doesn't change anything. Even rather big changes (like the European version of No More Heroes getting the massive fountains of enemy blood replaced by gold coins instead) don't bother me much, since in that case, I think the coins fit the strangeness of the game rather well. It's really a case-by-case basis... I think I'm more concerned about when they cut actual gameplay content more than censoring scenes, but those aren't mutually exclusive.
And in a complete subversion, I find that swearing is much more funny when it's censored than when it's not. Conker's Bad Fur Day comes to mind here.
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To all of you saying you don't like nudity/etc, where do you get the right to dictate what others can enjoy? Just because YOU don't find it comfortable does not give you the right to censor it for everyone else. Noone's forcing you to purchase the game or media item and your taxes aren't supporting them.
If you don't like x or y, then just stay away from it. I don't like porn but I'm not demanding it get pulled from shelves. You do not have the right to dictate to others what they can or can't enjoy, no matter how "morally repugnant" you may find it.
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I'd like to think the reason people complain about censorship isn't about the censorship per se, but because it's a form of change and people tend to not like that.
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I would say that humans can be extreme on things, especially in this case of censorship.
The idea of it doesn't bother me, but it can get annoying. Usually, I know what's being censored to some degree, or I can infer it
But taking it to extremes from EITHER side of the spectrum can be irritating at most. Occasionally, it's easy to ignore the complaining; others it's more difficult with the amount of solidity in the stance. Both ends should be held accountable for these problems, just for the fact they blame each other for BEING the problem.
A little censorship shouldn't matter unless it ruins the quality of the product completely, but nor would I say that it would prevent you from buying it or not.
Meh...
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To all of you saying you don't like nudity/etc, where do you get the right to dictate what others can enjoy? Just because YOU don't find it comfortable does not give you the right to censor it for everyone else. Noone's forcing you to purchase the game or media item and your taxes aren't supporting them.
Oddly enough, the government does. :(
Remember this incident and the backlash from it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII_halftime_show_controversy#Aftermath_and_effects
I know its not a game, but remember how some states we're trying to straight up ban M rated video games from stores?
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Also, I see no damn point in bleeping out words if 9 year olds know how to cuss profane language.
Remember this incident and the backlash from it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII_halftime_show_controversy#Aftermath_and_effects
I know its not a game, but remember how some states we're trying to straight up ban M rated video games from stores?
The problem is, a lot of people are ninnies about this crap.
The majority are inbound in their ideas of censorship, but the other problem is, it become inherent as time goes on. 200 years and the higher-ups still act like it. We seriously have lost all values in this nation, but censorship and people's "protection" is something that people can still grasp.
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Oddly enough, the government does. :(
Remember this incident and the backlash from it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII_halftime_show_controversy#Aftermath_and_effects
I know its not a game, but remember how some states we're trying to straight up ban M rated video games from stores?
This is exactly what I mean. Saying that exposing a nipple to a child is offensive is like saying the same about exposing a banana to a monkey.
But beyond this, as a parent, I'm more comfortable with my child seeing images of the human body in its natural state, or being treated with kindness, than I am with her being shown the human body being injured, tortured or killed. I don't get parents who are the exact opposite. I mean, I'm aware there are parents who don't want their kids playing "violent video games", but they're not exactly shouting down network television when it comes to violence with the same voracity that they devote to Janet Jackson's nipple.
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I'd like to think the reason people complain about censorship isn't about the censorship per se, but because it's a form of change and people tend to not like that.
Uh, no, wtf, how is censorship any change, etc.
You do not have the right to dictate to others what they can or can't enjoy, no matter how "morally repugnant" you may find it.
QFT. There's rating boards and there's censorship. The former take media content, analyze it, and set up a rating of what *they* believe is appropriate or not for a given age within said content, and then they give the consumer the choice of acquiring that content or not according to his/her own views, agreeing or not with the rating boards. The former latter is straight out interfering with content based on a specific morality, and telling on the lives of other people who might have different views and a different set of morals, which is a completely subjective and individual thing.
Having been born just a few years after the end of a very long military dictatorship in my country, which involved a lot of censorship, and having been raised on the mentality that one is free to choose whatever morals and behaviours one wants to take, as long as it doesn't interfere with the morals and behaviours of others, I feel quite strongly about censorship.
e: fixed the stupidest mistake
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To all of you saying you don't like nudity/etc, where do you get the right to dictate what others can enjoy? Just because YOU don't find it comfortable does not give you the right to censor it for everyone else. Noone's forcing you to purchase the game or media item and your taxes aren't supporting them.
If you don't like x or y, then just stay away from it. I don't like porn but I'm not demanding it get pulled from shelves. You do not have the right to dictate to others what they can or can't enjoy, no matter how "morally repugnant" you may find it.
Hope I'm not an one of your ideal targets for this comment... To be frank, I'm not sure who is. I don't see a SINGLE person who says they don't like nudity say that others shouldn't get it in their entertainment, so what's the point of this comment?
Anyway I suspect that my opinion isn't made clear again. I do NOT think nudity or whatever should be cut from a game because I don't like it, or because I think it's "sick" (I don't think it's sick), I simply don't want the possible sales of a game to go down because its level of nudity (or other material that may be deemed "censor worthy") is considered too high for the local norm. Basically, I want localizers and game developers to be successful, provided the game as a whole doesn't get butchered so much that it truly is not the same game. If localization teams think that they will get more potential sales by censoring one or two nudity details or whatever, THAT is where I like to say I support such a decision, NOT because I think nudity is "wrong", or because I don't want others to enjoy it, I just don't like hard working game industry workers not reap as much fruits of their labor as they potentially can.
Now you may argue that censoring doesn't actually impact sales, I wont argue that, I honestly have no clue. But I'm in no position to claim that I know better than any localization staff who actually DOES this stuff, so I'll just shrug my shoulders and trust that they tried their best.
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Oddly enough, the government does. :(
Remember this incident and the backlash from it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII_halftime_show_controversy#Aftermath_and_effects
I know its not a game, but remember how some states we're trying to straight up ban M rated video games from stores?
Different situation. The Super Bowl is the most watched event in the US, and is reasonably assumed to be family friendly. The outcry is justified IMHO, a reasonable person isn't going to expect boobs shown in a football game. I personally think it was silly to get worked up over such a thing but they have a legitimate reason to be upset.
Uh, no, wtf, how is censorship any change, etc.
QFT. There's rating boards and there's censorship. The former take media content, analyze it, and set up a rating of what *they* believe is appropriate or not for a given age within said content, and then they give the consumer the choice of acquiring that content or not according to his/her own views, agreeing or not with the rating boards. The former is straight out interfering with content based on a specific morality, and telling on the lives of other people who might have different views and a different set of morals, which is a completely subjective and individual thing.
Exactly. Ratings boards are so people can make informed decisions on the content contained. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a ratings board persay. And has been shown countless times, an M/R rating is not a death sentence at all, at least in America. There should definitely be ratings boards and things should get rated if they're intended for retail release.
The issue stems from countries with mandatory ratings boards that will intentionally refuse classification of content as a means to censor content. This is why I am very glad the ESRB and the MPAA ratings boards are NOT government-controlled.
Hope I'm not an one of your ideal targets for this comment... To be frank, I'm not sure who is. I don't see a SINGLE person who says they don't like nudity say that others shouldn't get it in their entertainment, so what's the point of this comment?
Several people in this thread have said they wish for nudity to be censored in games. Sorry if you don't like it you don't have to buy it. If you don't like that stuff, just don't purchase it. Don't dictate morality for people who may not have a problem with it or may actually enjoy it.
Anyway I suspect that my opinion isn't made clear again. I do NOT think nudity or whatever should be cut from a game because I don't like it, or because I think it's "sick" (I don't think it's sick), I simply don't want the possible sales of a game to go down because its level of nudity (or other material that may be deemed "censor worthy") is considered too high for the local norm. Basically, I want localizers and game developers to be successful, provided the game as a whole doesn't get butchered so much that it truly is not the same game. If localization teams think that they will get more potential sales by censoring one or two nudity details or whatever, THAT is where I like to say I support such a decision, NOT because I think nudity is "wrong", or because I don't want others to enjoy it, I just don't like hard working game industry workers not reap as much fruits of their labor as they potentially can.
That's different, and that's wholly the developer's decision to do so, as it should be. If a developer chooses to tone their stuff down to take account the local market then that's their choice, they're not being forced to do so by a government board. That's fine, not everyone is going to like x or y so if they choose to tone it down to get more sales then they've consciously made that decision. We can compare it to the VN/dating game scene in Japan. There's a significant number of games with sex scenes ADDED not because the developers want it persay, but because that's what the target market wants.
The developer should get to decide how to tailor their product to their target audience and market. If they feel removing x or changing y will improve sales to their target market without drastically affecting their product, then that's fine. It's their creation. My objection is to outside parties such as government censors controlling what can and can't be done.
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On the example of Japan we even have the contradictory situation where producers and making more and more erotic stuff to appeal to the market, while at the same time the government enforces more and more censorship to counter it.
And 10 seconds on the internet are enough to show it ain't worth a damn
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:getdown: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/3/23/ :getdown:
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Okay thread over :getdown:
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It's degraded into a fight between who has the better opinion, I assume at this point.
Several people in this thread have said they wish for nudity to be censored in games. Sorry if you don't like it you don't have to buy it. If you don't like that stuff, just don't purchase it. Don't dictate morality for people who may not have a problem with it or may actually enjoy it.
Excuse me, excuse me!
I read through the whole thread and looked out for what those "people" said.
I think you did not draw the lines between: Opinions, Demands, and What People Actually Typed.
Just saying.
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Excuse me, excuse me!
I read through the whole thread and looked out for what those "people" said.
I think you did not draw the lines between: Opinions, Demands, and What People Actually Typed.
Just saying.
The point still stands regardless of what was being said. Anyways, censorship in games is dumb.
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that akiha h-scene is important to the plot and you know it
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Baw censorship? I remember when they was all over that. (http://earthboundcentral.com/m2eb/)
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AT3 was NOT censored, but I just saw older posts about people crying about how they wouldn't buy it if it was, without even knowing what, if anything, would have been.
I can respect people complaining about something important being censored, even if it's a matter of opinion, but it seems like people have no middle ground with it. It's like if the slightest most simple unimportant thing is censored, they act like the product is 100% ruined and unfit for purchase. Or they'll use it as an excuse to pirate it. "DURR I was going to buy the game but I decided to pirate it instead because Sgt. Matthews says "get lost" instead of "fuck off" in chapter 2!".
Actually, I just thought of a real example, also fairly recently, I've seen a few people claim they WERE going to buy Hyperdimension Neptunia, but decided not to because they changed the box art so Neptune's hand is positioned in front of her cleavage. Totally a facepalm reason IMO, if anything, I LIKE the change since the game as a whole really isn't the fan-service porn fest that people make it out to be. After the first 10 minutes, the game really is pretty normal in that department. But even if I didn't like it, I certainly wouldn't claim to not buy the game solely for that reason alone.
It's because content you paid for is not handed out to you, unless it's really just a change of the cover.
Living in Germany, I have experienced a lot of cuts that had an actualy influence on the gaming experience. Cutscenes not getting shown, levels being highly edited, possible actions taken out because they are "immoral", etc. You get the grasp.
That experience is what makes me kinda hostile towards censorship. The kind of censorship we receive here gets even so far to outright remove entire game modes just because they are immoral (Resident Evil 4: Merecenary mode was cut, Resident Evil 5: Online Multiplayer mode was cut). :/
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It's because content you paid for is not handed out to you, unless it's really just a change of the cover.
Living in Germany, I have experienced a lot of cuts that had an actualy influence on the gaming experience. Cutscenes not getting shown, levels being highly edited, possible actions taken out because they are "immoral", etc. You get the grasp.
That experience is what makes me kinda hostile towards censorship. The kind of censorship we receive here gets even so far to outright remove entire game modes just because they are immoral (Resident Evil 4: Merecenary mode was cut, Resident Evil 5: Online Multiplayer mode was cut). :/
Yeah, that is an extreme case of censorship, I don't think anybody has a problem with having a problem with that. I can even understand if the game is totally normal in every way, except everyone has green blood for some reason (I recall hearing about that for games like carmageddon for example).
As for hyperdimension neptunia, it was just the cover, that's it. You can still see the original cover in the game under the gallery section.
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I once bought the Half-Life anthology when I was in Germany, because it was hella cheap :V
I didn't think at the time that the games would have no blood and the hilarious gore from the original HL engine was replaced by static fading away rubber dolls.
Thankfully, Valve was very nice and understanding when I e-mailed them saying guys lol I'm not german, and promptly helped me get me violence back.