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I'll need to get the links to some Special disc stuff in here soon.
Thread 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4187.0)
Thread 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4614.0)
Thread 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5049.0)
Thread 4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6229.0)
English wiki (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou)
Japanese wiki (http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/)
2.04 download (http://www.mediafire.com/?mzdgl54mxmi)
2.06B download (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DA1DGQZC)
NG+ save file (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5049.0;attach=5054)
Cheat table for use with Cheat Engine. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6229.msg356800#msg356800)(Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010)
Cheat Table for Special Disc (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6229.msg377088#msg377088) (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010)
So I need to go beat Flandre sometime today. Shouldn't be to hard seeing as I beat Yukari.
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Well, Reimu lv78 is simply not high enough to take on 18F. Everything moves before any of my characters can, and then sweeps the party. Guess I'll have to do some grindan~
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I beat Flandre just now she was dissapointing compared to Mokou and Yukari.
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I beat Flandre just now she was dissapointing compared to Mokou and Yukari.
Yukari was considerably more of a letdown due to speed debuffs + horrid nature resistance. She only attacked like, twice.
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I actually thought that was a funner fight you had to stop her from tearing your team to shreds quickly and if you didn't you where screwed.
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Beast of Centaurea v2 is ADSFASDFASDFASD-ing me with it's Breakaway Form.
even Hibachi-sama v2 is a lot easier.
sigh.
Anyway, after looking at the JP Wiki, it says that the recommended level is 370.
oh well.
time to grind at 30F again. :3
I actually thought that was a funner fight you had to stop her from tearing your team to shreds quickly and if you didn't you where screwed.
Flandre's fight is a damage race imo.
she can lolpwn you with any of her signature skill.
especially Lavateinn. when she's starting to spam it.
*on a side note: boss Flan's artwork is rather cute. :3
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Finished up the exploration of the 10F-12F maze. That place was a lot less annoying than I remembered it to be... Though I still have to defeat Tenshi and the Eientei trio. Tenshi's attacks are mostly nature element, right?
Also completely forgetting about Sanae and her Foe until just recently made that battle a whole lot easier than on my first playthrough :V Though it did give me a chance to test out Nitori's upgraded LInear Gun; that thing sure got more powerful since v2.04...
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Wow. Mokou's kicking my ass.
I got her to her resurrection phase on my first try after a healthy dose of paralysis from Iron Rings and Irremovable Shackles (Who uses that anyways?) after I accidentally got Komachi's debuff to paralyze her.
Then Fujiyama Volcano did 7000~ to everybody.
Otherwise, I'm finding Aya's Peerless Wind God as effective as usual (still 49000~ before needing to switch out), Patchouli is dealing... 20000~?
Chen is also being great, and Reisen's debuffs are great.
Bah. What's the formula for Fujiyama Volcano so I don't only have Komachi alive after it? And what's everyone's opinion of Suika? I mean, she's got a better MND than Remilia for me, and she's got more functionality...
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Suika's great until you get better buffers to make her self-buff non special, her damage suddenly being only averageish. But that's in plus-disk. Unless you use Iku extensively, then Suika may never be special :P
Only Meiling/Komachi/RemiwithalotofFIRaffinity will survive Fujiyama Volcano. You want to kill her before the second; her HP is set to 80k on Resurrection, so a buffed Megawatt could do it alone, or you could use multiple nukes. And, if I remember right it's composite.
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Except that this is 2.04. And now I can't remember if Iku buffs 75% in 2.04. Does she, since nobody ever used her before...
Anyways, I'm assuming that Mokou has the same formulas as she does when she's a playable character for the time being.
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Anyways, I'm assuming that Mokou has the same formulas as she does when she's a playable character for the time being.
No. Everything Boss!Mokou has is purely atk based, except the composite Iwakasa's Curse and magical Flame Wind.
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Oh, well then.
On the other hand, I just barely scrounged more Flight of Idatens and Peerless Wind Gods after Resurrection again. Rumia got used for un-debuffing, and Suika's debuffing Mokou's speed was huuuge. And Reisen debuffing made everything better.
So I beat Mokou, and Komachi got hit for over 10000~ (still survived though) from Volcano. That's pretty important, since I wasn't using Remilia or Meiling, just Suika and Yuugi. Patchy is falling behind in use, so I'mma find someone to replace her soon.
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Except that this is 2.04. And now I can't remember if Iku buffs 75% in 2.04. Does she, since nobody ever used her before...
Anyways, I'm assuming that Mokou has the same formulas as she does when she's a playable character for the time being.
Iku buffs 72% in everything from 2.01 forward.
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Note to self: Don't attempt to buff Patchy with Thundercloud Stickleback without having her PAR resistance buffed. She just sat there paralyzed taking zero damage from the combined efforts of the Eientei trio while the rest of the party went crashing down around her :V
On a more positive note, giving Meiling some +100 NTR resistance gear reduced Tenshi's Violent Motherland from a 1HKO attack to the equivalent of a light breeze. And once again Nitori proved her worth by being responsible for around 100k of the 128k damage needed to take Tenshi down. Seriously, just how much did Linear Gun's damage output get boosted?
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Seriously, just how much did Linear Gun's damage output get boosted?
Went from
1.25 (500% Atk - 50% Def)
to
1.25 (800% Atk - 50% Def)
Considering very few attacks even go as high as 300% Atk or Mag, that's a pretty damn huge boost.
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Seriously, just how much did Linear Gun's damage output get boosted?
Enough to go from mediocre to top-tier damage dealer?
The actually formula changed from 5x ATK to 8x, I believe. That's before DEF is applied, so against high DEF targets you're looking at maybe double damage between 2.04 and later versions.
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Agh. I need to farm DTH resistance gear for Yuyuko, don't I?
:/
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Agh. I need to farm DTH resistance gear for Yuyuko, don't I?
You should have over 10 Hades rings by the time you'd want to try fighting her anyway. Unless you're incredibly unlucky.
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I'm a few levels away from the Wiki's recommendation and I've already beaten Mokou. By the nature of this game though... I only have 6.
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You'll be fine. You'll just have to be economical about it. Anyone with at least 15 DTH resist who isn't in your 4 opening people doesn't need a ring too badly. Also, Tellina Shell Necklace has dth resist.
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Bah. Suika got hit by DTH on the first turn with 34 resistance. That's right, it has over 100 power, dunnit?
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Bah. Suika got hit by DTH on the first turn with 34 resistance. That's right, it has over 100 power, dunnit?
200 :3
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And on attempt number three, team Eientei goes down! Not very much strategy involved; almost the entire battle consisted of me having Patchy in the second slot and Iku in the third, spamming Royal Flare and Thundercloud Stickleback (thank you, Parallaxal, for showing me the potential of that buff) respectively, while Meiling, Sanae and Reimu took turns in the other two slots trying to keep themselves alive. Once Patchy ran out of SP Kaguya decided to use Focus, so then I switched in Nitori and Marisa to take her and Eirin out before they nuked everyone. They went down in one hit each, and then getting rid of Reisen by herself was rather easy.
I remember how much trouble I had with this battle on my first playthrough...
1.25 (800% Atk - 50% Def)
...unless I'm reading the database wrong, that's quite a bit more than the base power of Master Spark. :o No wonder that thing is powerful.
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BAAAAAAAW
That's the second time she DTH'd Suika with 34 DTH resist. And it was with Ghastly Dream.
But she went down that time because of 30~ hits from Aya and Chen combined, and Patchouli tanking things like a feather against a brick wall.
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...unless I'm reading the database wrong, that's quite a bit more than the base power of Master Spark. :o No wonder that thing is powerful.
It's identical to the base power of Master Spark. Master Spark's variable damage thanks to SP makes it stronger, though Megawatt Linear Gun only costs 88 SP compared to Master Spark's, er, everything.
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...unless I'm reading the database wrong, that's quite a bit more than the base power of Master Spark. :o No wonder that thing is powerful.
Well, it means it's 1000% ATK in total.
Master Spark starts at 700% MAG, and goes up to 1400% MAG when at 1600+ SP.
Nitori's ATK growth also isn't exactly the most stellar thing in the world (Heck, not counting her levelling speed for a moment it's one of the worst on a character who actually uses it), and Marisa's MAG is pretty damn good, so assuming neutral-MYS resistance and equal DEF/MND on the target I think you'd generally get more damage out of Master Spark even at low SP. But with that said, Master Spark needs recharge time between each use (Nitori can fire again once her long delay is covered through some method), and gets neutered by stuff having high MYS resistance -or- stupid-crazy MND, while only a few things have the defense to neuter Megawatt Linear.
Either way, yeah. Nitori might have gotten buffed -too- much.
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Fuck yeah I'm about halfway through the Iron Maze now. Sadly for me, the second half is the more annoying half but oh well.
Also, I'm crazy. ATK-based Wriggle does damage what. :V
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ATK-based Wriggle's Butterfly Storm is a slightly weaker version of Nitori's Extending Arm. Not bad at all. And Comet on Earth is a nice low-SP move to knock off some near-dead cronie.
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ATK-based Wriggle's Butterfly Storm is a slightly weaker version of Nitori's Extending Arm. Not bad at all. And Comet on Earth is a nice low-SP move to knock off some near-dead cronie.
Whoa, you're right. Butterfly Storm's formula only has a 10% weaker damage multiplier than Extending Arm, and Wriggle has the same ATK growth but a better leveling rate.
Then again, who uses Nitori for Extending Arm? (Other than, you know, being awesome at clearing floor trash. My Nitori is OHKOing mobs on 26F with it.)
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(Other than, you know, being awesome at clearing floor trash. My Nitori is OHKOing mobs on 26F with it.)
exactly
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Somehow I managed to break the game by doing nothing but making a shortcut on my desktop for v3.01. Well this sucks.
EDIT: Fixed it with a duplicate 3.01 .exe that I had laying around on my hard drive. Still can't beat 18F for whatever reason, but merely adding 16F and Patchouli back on the team has improved progress significantly to the point where I can get him down halfway through his last elemental form.
I'll probably drop Mokou, Aya's actually hitting harder than she is in every phase of the fight except Water (and my Mokou doesn't have suitable CLD resistance yet).
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Heh, I'm on 18f too, not at the boss yet, just slogging thru the extra bs trash.
That's one thing really bad about beating 16f boss early...The next 2 floor's trash is obscene. Oh hi, I go faster than any of your dudes except for Chen/Aya, but I have 65k hp and good defenses and great affinities and par immunity, and when I go, your entire party loses all their sp.. Here's my buddy, she casts arrow rain, and will 1hko all your casters, she'll go long before any of your good nukers can move too!
i got 3 lances of Gaios or wtf they are called from 17f. but not one star of elendil.. argh.
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Team Unappreciated vs. the Flower Master of the Four Seasons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnPY4kJ1t_o
This was actually a pretty easy fight for the team, given how many of the damage dealers used Fire-based attacks. Just slap on a ton of Nature affinity gear to everyone that I expected to stay in, and we were all set to go.
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Heh, I'm on 18f too, not at the boss yet, just slogging thru the extra bs trash.
That's one thing really bad about beating 16f boss early...The next 2 floor's trash is obscene. Oh hi, I go faster than any of your dudes except for Chen/Aya, but I have 65k hp and good defenses and great affinities and par immunity, and when I go, your entire party loses all their sp.. Here's my buddy, she casts arrow rain, and will 1hko all your casters, she'll go long before any of your good nukers can move too!
i got 3 lances of Gaios or wtf they are called from 17f. but not one star of elendil.. argh.
You're going to have to help me with that fight. Stream it or something, I keep getting my ass kicked, and at Reimu lv98 that's just ridiculous.
Though like I said before, it's probably my team lineup that's screwing me over. Switch out Sanae and Chen for 16F and Patch, and suddenly I can get about three times further in the fight than before even with Reimu dying on the first turn.
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You're going to have to help me with that fight. Stream it or something, I keep getting my ass kicked, and at Reimu lv98 that's just ridiculous.
Though like I said before, it's probably my team lineup that's screwing me over. Switch out Sanae and Chen for 16F and Patch, and suddenly I can get about three times further in the fight than before even with Reimu dying on the first turn.
me? I'm pretty slow, I probably wont be at the boss until after you've already beat him up. But I guess I can fraps it or something.
I don't know if I'll be much lower level though, I'm at Reimu 90 atm still exploring that floor (though I've covered like 5/6ths of the map, the last bit takes awhile longer IIRC.
Plus I might stink anyway, the thing is this playthru I have a party setup pretty unlike what I normally have. I have a buncha glass cannons basically, and I'm speccing offense instead of defense for once just so I can compare them. I also have Remi in Patchy in there as always, also specced for offense just so that I can compare the other glass cannons with 2 characters I'm already very familiar with.
This playthru patchy seems pretty bad, I think I ;prefer her focused on mnd instead of mag. Her damage is only slightly less, and she doesn't take 0 from absolutely everything that isn't pure physical >=(. Anyway, I'm not sure if a buncha glass cannons is exactly the ideal party for 18f. But if I can make it past the first phase clean, hopefully the rest should be simple, because I really got the elements covered (except wind).
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me? I'm pretty slow, I probably wont be at the boss until after you've already beat him up. But I guess I can fraps it or something.
I don't know if I'll be much lower level though, I'm at Reimu 90 atm still exploring that floor (though I've covered like 5/6ths of the map, the last bit takes awhile longer IIRC.
Plus I might stink anyway, the thing is this playthru I have a party setup pretty unlike what I normally have. I have a buncha glass cannons basically, and I'm speccing offense instead of defense for once just so I can compare them. I also have Remi in Patchy in there as always, also specced for offense just so that I can compare the other glass cannons with 2 characters I'm already very familiar with.
This playthru patchy seems pretty bad, I think I ;prefer her focused on mnd instead of mag. Her damage is only slightly less, and she doesn't take 0 from absolutely everything that isn't pure physical >=(. Anyway, I'm not sure if a buncha glass cannons is exactly the ideal party for 18f. But if I can make it past the first phase clean, hopefully the rest should be simple, because I really got the elements covered (except wind).
Perfect, you have the same type of team as me too. :V
Glass cannon sucks, I'm definitely going for defensive builds next playthrough.
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7F Boss. Cannot do. :colonveeplusalpha:
Is the only thing I can do just grind until Remi, Yuugi, and Meiling can take more than one Hellfire? usually I just throw Wriggle in at the end for lack of a better tank and because Wriggle is useless now that Yuugi can cause poison as well, so she can die without anything bad happening, but while I'm nuking with Chen, Marisa, and Patchy I can't tell when another Hellfire is coming to wipe everyone that isn't a tank. :ohdear:
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You're going to have to help me with that fight. Stream it or something, I keep getting my ass kicked, and at Reimu lv98 that's just ridiculous.
Actually, that's about right. Reimu 98 is the point at which it is fairly possible to beat it if you're fighting him right (You really have to know what you're getting into); most people don't take him on for another ten levels or so though. If you want to take him on at that level, you need to burn through his first phase ASAP, and then use the right nukes to get through every form but Fire. Use the Fire form as your chance to rest, recover, and rebuff, because it is by far the least threatening of every form. He will eventually formshift on his own again without you destroying it, and then eventually return to Fire. Only destroy it once you're ready to go into the final one.
7F Boss. Cannot do. :colonveeplusalpha:
Is the only thing I can do just grind until Remi, Yuugi, and Meiling can take more than one Hellfire? usually I just throw Wriggle in at the end for lack of a better tank and because Wriggle is useless now that Yuugi can cause poison as well, so she can die without anything bad happening, but while I'm nuking with Chen, Marisa, and Patchy I can't tell when another Hellfire is coming to wipe everyone that isn't a tank. :ohdear:
Watch the boss' attack pattern. It goes Hellfire -> Attack -> Attack -> Attack -> Hellfire.
However, if you have an empty spot, and the RNG gets it to attack a blank spot, it'll simply skip that and move onto the next command in order, so if you don't keep your party full during its attacks it might use another Hellfire sooner.
Right after Hellfire, swap in a healer (Minoriko is preferrable here) and start recharging tanks in slot one and two, and start wailing on him with 1-3. When turn four starts approaching, swap out anyone who'll be killed (Even if it means having an empty slot for a moment). If you took that space to throw up a defensive buff or two via Reimu, it should do even less damage this time.
Also, it's got roughly a 25% chance to be PAR'd and a 40% chance to be hit with any debuff. Cirno might be good to try spamming Icicle Fall between its Hellfires, because if she lands her SPD Down even once you'll have a huge amount more time to wail on it.
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7F boss was also the first Grind wall I ran into. Have you fought Nitori on 7F for her drop yet?
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and because Wriggle is useless now that Yuugi can cause poison as well
Uh, no. Yuugi's poison is extremely weak. If you expect anything significant out of poison, Wriggle's is the way to go.
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Uh, no. Yuugi's poison is extremely weak. If you expect anything significant out of poison, Wriggle's is the way to go.
Also this.
Poison damage is based on three things: The PSN value on the attack, the target's poison resistance, and the user's level. Wriggle has both an awesomely fast levelling speed and the poison effects on even the weaker of her attacks are significantly stronger than any other character's poison (Comet on Earth is very close to double as strong as that of any other character)
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Just curious, who's the runner-up for poison potency? Rin?
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Whee!
I actually had a fairly easy time with the Eintei trio. Bosses are a lot of fun when you actually have an idea of what you're doing.
I lead out with Meiling, Iku, Minoriko, and Patchy. I had Iku use two Sticklebacks on Patchy first as Minoriko threw out buffs. Iku died from a Galaxy and I put in Reimu to spam Hakurei Barrier. Everyone tanked for awhile as Patchy threw out incredibly potent Royal Flares. My defenses started to wear down after awhile and I got a bit worried as Reisen and Kaguya both focused at the same time. I had Reimu throw out some PAR on Eirin and Reisen and nuked Kaguya dead. Eirin managed to get a Hourai Elixir on Reisen before I nuked her dead as well. Reisen never got another turn as I PAR locked her with REIMU and nuked her dead.
Fun tiems.
I have a new party now that the horrible Iron Maze is done too.
Yuugi
Komachi
Marisa
Aya
Meiling
Patchouli
Iku
Reimu
Minoriko
Reisen
Nitori
Wriggle
Woohoo for progress!
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Also this.
Poison damage is based on three things: The PSN value on the attack, the target's poison resistance, and the user's level. Wriggle has both an awesomely fast levelling speed and the poison effects on even the weaker of her attacks are significantly stronger than any other character's poison (Comet on Earth is very close to double as strong as that of any other character)
... Oh.
I thought Poison was Poison and that was that. :V
EDIT: Also should I be using Iku more? I kind of left her aside after getting her because I couldn't really choose who on my party to leave out. Does she help at all during a battle like this?
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... Oh.
I thought Poison was Poison and that was that. :V
EDIT: Also should I be using Iku more? I kind of left her aside after getting her because I couldn't really choose who on my party to leave out. Does she help at all during a battle like this?
Iku's great for boss fights because of her 72% attack buff, -50% defense debuff, and good durability (particularly MND). I used her a lot for a large portion of the game. Have her buff up Patchy or some other high-power nuke and watch them tear into the boss.
On that note, healing spells work off of MAG, so buffing Minoriko or Reimu will pretty much guarantee they'll heal everyone for their full health bar (though that's not necessary if they already do).
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With the KNOWLEDGE by my side I'm trying again.
If I lose, I might as well get to grindan.
EDIT: Grindan.
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7F Boss. Cannot do. :colonveeplusalpha:
Adding to what Garlyle said, raising your FIR affinity always helps for the Foe bosses. Give your tanks a few Bomb Rings (or, even better, LOVE Machines, though I'm not sure if you can get those by floor 7) and some skill levels in FIR affinity, and watch as the damage done by Flowing Hellfire is reduced by quite a bit.
In other news, I decided to do 13F the not-so-cheap way and didn't look it up on the wiki, unlike in my first playthrough. Needless to say, that took a while.
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Just curious, who's the runner-up for poison potency? Rin?
Poison users, with their levelling rate (Lower is better here as it means they need less EXP ler level)
Wriggle (EXP per level rate: 94) - Comet on Earth (120), Firefly Phenomenon (90)
Yuugi (EXP per level rate: 115) - Irremovable Shackles (60) (For those paying attention: The database says it's PSN-60 and PAR-30, which is the opposite of what it currently says on the wiki o.o)
Komachi (EXP per level rate: 120) - Narrow Confines of Avici (45)
Reisen (EXP per level rate: 108) - Gas-Woven Orb (60)
Orin (EXP per level rate: 106) - Vengeful Cannibal Spirit (45)
Mystia (EXP per level rate: 85) - Poisonous Moth's Dark Dance (70)
Huh, I swore there were people with lower PSN rates. Anyway though, the way Poison's damage formula works, being a "Gradual over time, reducing as it goes" type of thing, inflicting a stronger poison adds up to significantly more damage than a weaker one. Wriggle is notably the best for dealing poison damage because of her second-best levelling speed of any of them, plus having nearly twice the power for those moves - each of the other choices brings something else to the table that they can do instead though, even if they can't match Wriggle for poison damage (Yuugi, for instance, has KOi3S, which will do way more damage than her poison will)
Note that using a weaker status effect won't overwrite the stronger one, so don't worry if you are carrying other poison users that they'll reduce Wriggle's damage.
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Beat 18f at Reimu 92. I recorded it as requested.. will take some time to upload though. Had 2 sloppy deaths. One of which was one I knew was coming, and gambled that it wouldn't happen, but sure enough it did.. oh well, she did the job anyway I suppose.
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Reimu level 75. Can't beat
Mokou
, Yuyuko
, Flandre
or the Lily Sigil
. So I take on 16F Boss because she looked easier (and she was). Still just barely won though, on Suwako's last Croaking Frog. Meiling was the only one being certain to survive the very strong multi-target attack, so at the end I'd always switch out my characters for...nobody :V
Then I looked at the wiki (I look only after winning a fight) and they suggested recruiting everyone else beforehand :V
I feel like I'm missing something very obvious against Mokou...
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Reimu level 75. Can't beat Mokou
, Yuyuko
, Flandre
or the Lily Sigil
. So I take on 16F Boss because she looked easier (and she was). Still just barely won though, on Suwako's last Croaking Frog. Meiling was the only one being certain to survive the very strong multi-target attack, so at the end I'd always switch out my characters for...nobody :V
Then I looked at the wiki (I look only after winning a fight) and they suggested recruiting everyone else beforehand :V
I feel like I'm missing something very obvious against Mokou...
Mokou: Just burn through her as fast as you can; every time she attacks she recovers some HP. If you debuff her she starts using Tsuki no Iwakasa which will lower your attack, but she'll ONLY use that, and you can build up WND and Debuff resistance and make her even easier. Just be ready for her final phase.
Yuyuko: Equip DTH and SPI resist items and she becomes a wimp
Flandre: Damage race, since you can't hope to really neuter her damage to you all that much. I just remember taking her down easy once I set my mind to it.
Lily Sigil guardian: I don't even remember. Was that the Great Stamp or whatever? If so, just either beat it down without debuffing it so it won't use Great Earthquake, or debuff and rush the hell out of it, with at least one NTR-pumped supertank to handle Great Earthquake when it comes
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Also get used to how much damage it takes for Mokou to ressurect so you can get your nukers in at the right Time.
Nitori did far more than Marisa Nuking wise for me.
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Also get used to how much damage it takes for Mokou to ressurect so you can get your nukers in at the right Time.
Nitori did far more than Marisa Nuking wise for me.
You mean for Mokou? Yeah, it's because Mokou's got MYS resistance.
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Hit 15F. I forgot about Rumia, and then realized that Blackenmels are damn near untouchable.
Until Chen(!) Phoenix Spread Wings them for 11000 after Kimontoku.
Suika can use her wind nuke to clear them and Knockout in Three Steps also clears them. But that was hella unexpected until I saw the PSW formula.
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Lily Sigil guardian: I don't even remember. Was that the Great Stamp or whatever? If so, just either beat it down without debuffing it so it won't use Great Earthquake, or debuff and rush the hell out of it, with at least one NTR-pumped supertank to handle Great Earthquake when it comes
Debuffing Great Stamp's ATK with Alice or someone is a really good idea, just stay away from SPD debuffs. With Alice's ATK debuffs, WrigglePSN, Nitori nuke, Reimu with SP recovery... the battle should be a snap. Tank and stall while PSN damage and two+ nukers being switched in/out whittle down that HP. With this strategy I beat it before even going to 16F, and I only used like 7 of my party members.
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Heres that 18f boss video as requested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY2wHrgnFpw
Just ignore the mix'n'match character portraits, I'm still playing around finding what I like best. I'm aware I still have to resize Reimu and Patchy's >=P.
It juuust finished uploading so the quality is still probably borked.
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So I was running around taking care of some loose ends before 13F earlier.
I took on Tenshi and it was laughably easy. Reisen was able to keep her debuffed pretty significantly and I had her Wriggle-Poisoned most of the time as well. Iku buffed up nukes such as Yuugi and Patchy. Tenshi even managed to get a Violent Motherland out and despite losing people I still beat her pretty easily. Awesome.
Sanae's Foe also went down easily. Meiling, Komachi, Yuugi, and Wriggle all managed to be able to survive Hellfires and I kept it poisoned as I nuked it in between Hellfires. Reisen wasn't quite as useful because it seemed to have some debuff resistance.
All in all it's been a great run so far. On a side note, Thunder Stickleback is amazing. A buffed Yuugi was doing 20k Supernaturals and a buffed Nitori was doing 35k Megawatts.
<3
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Flandre: Damage race, since you can't hope to really neuter her damage to you all that much. I just remember taking her down easy once I set my mind to it.
Side note, Tenshi will most likely take 0s from her signature nukes (Forbidden Fruit/Laveatein) due to composite formulas. I used this in combination with Sanae buffing Kaguya to take her down with ease.
SPI and NTR damage is also your friend, MYS and FIR are not.
For Mokou, don't debuff her unless you feel like eating Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse every turn. Which you don't. Trust me.
Yuyuko went down easily after I got Mokou. You want durable characters with high MND, SPI, and DTH resist.
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It's so cool to see people using characters despite the wiki currently giving unflattering reviews of them (although I suppose that will change soon). Here's a summary of my thoughts on some of the characters I see people are using:
Rumia - Surprisingly powerful MYS nuker, as Moonlight Ray can put up some incredible numbers. If you have a way to buff her MAG (such as with Iku or Ran), you can expect Demarcation to become a rather powerful healing spell too; maybe not quite as good as Reimu's, but still quite servicable. Her MAG growth is actually the same as Reimu's, but Rumia levels faster, so the worse formula on Demarcation can still be worked around. I've gone all-out MAG with her, and am still not disappointed with her as of 27F of the Plus Disk. In fact, I've been using her more and more often as I get later into the game. You can see her in my later boss videos healing for 15k HP at level 240 or so, thanks to Iku.
Wriggle - She impresses me for being a damage dealer that never needs to put any points into her offensive stats. This lets you spend all your level up bonuses on HP, DEF, and MND, turning her into a durable character with excellent status resistances as well. Her poison damage isn't necessarily amazing, but still better than many give her credit for, as I've calculated in a few of my videos. Compared to other "tank" characters, at least she contributes way more damage than most.
Iku - Probably the #1 character on Team Unappreciated that surpassed my expectations (although they all did to some extent). When I first started using her on the team, I thought Thundercloud Strickleback was only 50%. But then I discovered that not only is it more than twice as strong of an offensive buff as Miracle Fruit, but it can be cast almost twice as quickly too! Now, all my boss fights start with Iku charging up my damage dealers by an absurd amount. There's nothing better for pumping Rumia's MAG for some strong healing. And don't even get me started on composite formulas! In my video against the 25F boss, you can see Orin doing 200k with Blazing Wheel unbuffed. After a single Thundercloud Strickleback? Well over 400k damage. How many 40 SP, 60% post-use guage moves can boast that huge of a damage contribution? But that's not all; I've also finally realized that Iku is an absolutely amazing MND tank as well! She's got a MND stat that rivals Tenshis, but with better HP to back it up! For those of you who are just starting to use her, I'd recommend going all-out MND to turn her into a magic wall as solid as Patchy. She doesn't need MAG if you're just using her for debuffs and Thundercloud Strickleback anyway. And believe me, that's all you'll need for her to be worth a spot in your party.
Reisen - If Iku was the #1 biggest surprise for me, Reisen is #2. When I first played LoT and read the wiki, I thought Reisen sounded like the absolute worst character in the game. A debuffer who only debuffs 15%, has poor damage formulas, and mediocre growth rates to boot? How does anyone expect to use her? Oh, sure, she's got a 40% self-buff that raises all stats, but how could that possibly save her? No one ever seemed to use her, so the info on her post-usage guages was missing. Then I was forced to use her for Team Unappreciated, and cast Grand Patriot's Elixir for the very first time. What. 83% post-usage guage? That's insane! Right now in my party, she can skyrocket all her stats from 0% to 97% in about the same amount of time it takes for Meiling to recover from switching out a single character! And with all those speed boosts she gives herself, her spells probably feel like they only have about 50% delay. Once she has enough SP to chug a Grand Patriot's Elixir whenever she falls below 60% buffs, she can stay in to do excellent damage while taking a few hits as well. And I still haven't even gotten to her debuffs, but honestly now, I'm already content with her damage output. In my most recent fight against Yuka, Reisen was able to stay in for almost the whole fight, and contributed about 80% as much damage as Nitori did. Given that Nitori is now a top-tier damage dealer, and that Reisen was taking hits while also adding some very useful MAG and SPD debuffs in addition to that damage, I'd say that's pretty amazing.
You mean for Mokou? Yeah, it's because Mokou's got MYS resistance.
Nope, I'm pretty sure Mokou's neutral to MYS. Her only resistance is to Fire.
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It was an established fact around here that Rumia's a decent character, though I think it's worth noting that Rumia's really only relevant in Plus Disk when you've significantly buffed her durability, because it's not enough to handle some of the tougher enemies past 28F. She has no issues with damage but she's still kind of squishy. You either HAVE to buff her defense in battle to make her survive slugfests or switch her out at key moments. I managed to defeat the Winner using a party of Rumia / Mystia / Cirno / Wriggle and it's really quite doable provided you twink the right stuff. But yeah I don't think anyone's denying Rumia's usefulness
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Anybody find some characters are NOT as good as they hoped after using them?
I'm slightly disappointed with kanako. Her sp is low, her spells are expensive, and even when the enemy is weak to cold, suiga hits for the same amount as a megawatt/croaking frog/koi3s.
Granted she's much Beefier, but as I said, that's when she's exploiting a weakness. She's not bad by any means, but given bow I prefer to play defensively I figure I'd love having her in my party.
Her low delay nuke is a bit of a joke too, even if the enemy is weak to spirit, it's piercing is quite poor, so it still hits for crap. I got bigger numbers with a defense build aya on my first playthru.
I also was doing some number crunching. Top tier dps isn't actually megawatt (or starbrow break) it's actually croaking frog. That doesn't factor level up rate, but the formula with atk growth made it about 15% stronger iirc. Bear in mind it has a lower delay too. I'm honestly not sure if nature is more desirable than non-element. But I'm pretty sure every element has more situations where enemies resist it than those where they are weak to it.
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It was an established fact around here that Rumia's a decent character
Took a while to get this way. In all honesty, I think everyone's been established as decent in their own right.
Anybody find some characters are NOT as good as they hoped after using them?
Yuyuko. I tried. I really tried. I just can't anymore. She's too slow and her enemy-delaying spells and DTH just don't make up for it.
Also Eirin. Eirin. Can't-help-me Eirin. She doesn't have the power I was hoping for unless you put her full-MAG, it seems, and then you lose out on her defenses, which are questionable in use because of the fact that Hourai Elixir is sloooow and comes with some unforseen drawbacks.l
Remilia. It seems like trying to hybrid her for attack and defense just... doesn't produce anything stellar enough for me to consider.
And finally Mystia. But I haven't begun climbing through 21F yet, so she might prove herself yet once I get back into regular floor trash and not minibosstrash / single-target boss fightan.
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Remilia is a typical Jeigan. If you want to make her viable later on, you need to pump everything, because her stats scale extremely badly and even with her Vlad Tepes Curse, her damage just doesn't compare to some of the other more offensive characters who don't even require buffs. For middle game usage, just focus more on her offense. Despite a high growth, her STR base was gimped a lot so you have to make up for that deficiency. At least, her durability isn't total ass. She's by no means stellar, but she's definitely not at all bad. Solid at best, above average at worst. She's sorely limited by her gimped STR base and her other stats having mediocre or above average growths. That doesn't mean she sucks though because she's very much awesome for early game usage.
Eirin's a weird case. Hourai Elixir is special, and Mercury Sea and Omoikane Device pack very... uh, slight debuffs that don't really work all that well. Not to mention all of her skills take a ridiculous amount of delay and are slow as fuck. I actually got a lot of mileage out of Eirin building her as a tank character. Her defensive growths are above average but when twinked it's possible to make use of Mercury Sea. While all of Eirin's attacks don't have very good multipliers, and Galaxy in a Jar is horrendously slow and weak for a single target nuke, she works as an off tank and at least Omoikane Device can... assist in whittling down defenses. I can see why you're disappointed though!! Eirin is decidedly average this time around.
Mystia is extremely solid, actually. If you look at her stats, she's very underwhelming at first glance... Then you look at her skillset, and her speed coupled with an above average offense (10 SPD / 10 STR, also 6 in both defenses), she can develop into a real powerhouse. Dive is quite fast to come out and isn't complete shit on the formula. Dark Dance has a weaker poison effect than Wriggle, but also has a 70 count PAR effect tacked on to it. Chorus Master has a 20 count PAR effect but is non-elemental, in case the opponent has a NTR resistance. Finally Mysterious Song can be used in a pinch, though I reckon you won't need to use it a lot unless you're being bombarded by bad status and debuffs. Haha.
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Remilia. It seems like trying to hybrid her for attack and defense just... doesn't produce anything stellar enough for me to consider.
:getdown:
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:getdown:
I'm not sure whether to interpret this as "I could've told you that", "Finally someone agrees with me", "Twink harder you dumbass" or simply " :getdown: "
EDIT: Why are Flandre v2/Orin v2 such ridiculous bullcrap?
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I'm not sure whether to interpret this as "I could've told you that", "Finally someone agrees with me", "Twink harder you dumbass" or simply " :getdown: "
lol remilia
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Yeah, yuyu was a letdown form me too. I thought her bar aging abilities would be good because of how unique it is, but it is just too slow for how little it did. Given how it nearly always hit for 0, I don't see how lowering the enemy bar by about 30% every third move makes up for having 1 less otherwise useless party member.
Her big nukes super formula made it do respectable damage, but still no better than a pure nuke's nuke. Despite it's absurd sp cost.
To make matters worse, instant dth didn't even help for trash as much as I thought it would.
Eirin looks like she may be a tank to me. But a healer or a nuke she is not. Thing is, china is just too damn good attacking to really make me consider anybody else.
I frequently get alot of use outta remi.
It's true that I pour more skillpoints into her than most. But that's only because her ATK, hp, def, spd, and mnd are all above average. I pretty much always invest skillpoints into each characters "high" stats pretty equally, unless I don't use it (like patchy's sp, or ran's mag, though I put some into fans mag for trash).
I actually have better offensive gear on suwako and nitori than I do remi on my video, but if I wasn't kaggy buffing them, I think you'd see her dps fairly comparable. She always provides a significant portion of my damage to boss fights because there is no element to her attacks.
I still never used her much with renko's or iku though, I recon that would make her less useful. Seems like everyone likes remi except on motk *shrugs*
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Kanako is very disappointing, yeah. Her MND is equal to that of people like Maribel, who are not known for good MND, and her DEF isn't really any more exciting. Her HP is fairly low, so she really can't go in the front row to use her DEF anyway. And then her damage is fairly ehh. My Remi does more damage against Yuuka then Kanako's Suiga does, and Yuuka is weak to CLD! ...I got out my 2nd playthrough save to check this, and this isn't a party I really think is good anymore :P
Remi is jeigan, yeah, she doesn't scale into Plus as well. An ATK-based Remi will do nice damage still, especially considering good spd/delay, and ATK-based will still hold the 2nd slot great, or at least be quite good for 3rd. She isn't really awesome or anything, though. A DEF-Based Remi would probably be kinda disappointing in all aspects instead of okay damage+okay tanking.
You do have to keep in mind that damage scales differently in Plus. For example, Meiling will actually deal nice damage with Mountain Breaker. Enough to want to use it when there's absolutely nothing she needs to do. 80k when your other attackers do 200~300k isn't bad for a tank if they have nothing else to do. Besides, you need to buff her ATK for her heals. In the same way, Eirin's damage will improve in usefulness for Plus (Although it'll still suck unless it's a MAG-Eirin which isn't a good idea IMO)
Yuyuko, she's good once she has SP to spam SFN. Don't use her before that. Seriously. Even then, she'll be useless for Serpent of Chaos and Shikieiki; but other then that, she should be great once she has that SP. Someone you could consider getting after beating SoC; her MND/HP is pretty nice for a nuker. But yeah, the fact that she'll be useless on SoC really hurts her even once she has the SP to spam her nuke. And she's no good at all without SFN spam.
I'm wondering if I should use Renko or Iku or Keine or simply only Ran, for my offensive buffs this game... Ran would really only be "okay I'll boost your damage slightly... after using like 400 SP and several turns..." because god that's some slow buffing. It's very good, yes, but I'd really like a faster alternative.
Or I could use only Ran, but think about getting self-buffers like maybe Maribel (because I like her but she's really kind of... well, as the wiki says, an Extra Effort character. She's just a little behind other damage characters, but not by much, and can buff her own DEF/MND/SPD too, so.)
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From the bit of messing around I did with NG+ files, I'd say Keine is actually a pretty good buffer. Her and Ran are the only people to get multi-target buffing and it can be incredibly useful if you use it right.
As for characters that I wanted to be awesome but weren't, probably Sanae. Anytime I tried to use her she just seemed to flail around and die to a breeze, her spells were expensive at the time, and I couldn't seem to do much with her. Minoriko will forever and always be my healer of choice.
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Her and Ran are the only people to get multi-target [offensive] buffing
renko
Thing about Keine is she only does one at a time. Ran does it slowly and with high SP cost. Renko does all 4 offensive/defense stats +75%, but with a fairly small amount of damage and halved active gauge at the same time. Hmm.
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By the time you get Renko, you really don't want to be reducing your active gauges in any battle. That's liable to kill you, especially in a boss fight.
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By the time you get Renko, you really don't want to be reducing your active gauges in any battle. That's liable to kill you, especially in a boss fight.
You're really overestimating how bad a halved action gauge is :P and it helps that you'll have at least +75% Def/Mnd because of the buff. I've personally used Renko and it's not really that bad in Plus Disk. It's still a downside of course, but it's not like "oh god I'm in danger of losing people if I use it"
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Yuyuko. I tried. I really tried. I just can't anymore. She's too slow and her enemy-delaying spells and DTH just don't make up for it.
Also Eirin. Eirin. Can't-help-me Eirin. She doesn't have the power I was hoping for unless you put her full-MAG, it seems, and then you lose out on her defenses, which are questionable in use because of the fact that Hourai Elixir is sloooow and comes with some unforseen drawbacks.l
Remilia. It seems like trying to hybrid her for attack and defense just... doesn't produce anything stellar enough for me to consider.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Mostly.
Marisa. I've never seen Master Spark do enough damage to make it worth having a character in the party that can only attack once. Her other spells aren't anything special, though decent for clearing trash.
Mokou. Honestly, I expected her to hit at least decently well, but she suffers from Yuyuko Syndrome when it comes to her attacks; the last one's the only one that ever impresses me. Those damage formulas are just...bad. I still use her since her durability's great for the damage output Fujiwara Volcano provides, but it'd be nice if her other attacks did something useful too.
Also, I agree on Keine being really underestimated. A 48% party-wide buff for an offensive stat is the largest you'll get without Charge, and she can back up Reimu and Yukari for defensive buffs against bosses that target DEF. Her attacks aren't half-bad either, and her durability's nice too.
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Mokou. Honestly, I expected her to hit at least decently well, but she suffers from Yuyuko Syndrome when it comes to her attacks; the last one's the only one that ever impresses me. Those damage formulas are just...bad. I still use her since her durability's great for the damage output Fujiwara Volcano provides, but it'd be nice if her other attacks did something useful too.
Her durability... really isn't even that special. Tons of people who can do better damage have much better MND (For example, Yuyuko, who has great MND and a much better nuke). Her DEF isn't really used much since she'll usually probably be in the back. Alice has a good FIR nuke and the same DEF, for that matter; and Alice has much better MND and many other uses too. Although her damage kinda falls behind, but Mokou's does too so when comparing them... yeah.
And about "Yuyuko Syndrome", well, Yuyuko is great once you have the SP to spam SFN. Yuyuko has the best MND out of the good nuking characters. Her problem of only having SPI attacks still hurts though, since bosses like Shikieiki and Serpent of Chaos will render her useless. Mokou doesn't really get much better when you can spam Fujiwara Volcano, because she's still behind in damage.
DEF-based Yukari is looking quite promising. She'll be a much better 2nd-slot tank then Remi, and maybe even still take over first slot on MAG-based bosses. Still deciding whether to use Iku, Keine, or Renko... hmm... well, I've got time to decide.
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Still deciding whether to use Iku, Keine, or Renko... hmm... well, I've got time to decide.
Iku if you're using Reimu or Yukari in conjunction with nukers that'll have high PAR resist, Keine otherwise.
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So I kind of beat 7F boss without really realizing what I was doing :v
Now to stumble around 8F until something happens.
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Careful around the event icons or else you'll get wiped by Suwako before you're ready
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Careful around the event icons or else you'll get wiped by Suwako before you're ready
She's not that hard. I didn't have to do any grinding post-Tam's Foe to beat her.
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Characters that I've been somewhat disappointed with?
Utsuho. I've actually used her extensively on one playthrough, and while she's not bad, she wasn't as good as I had hoped. Uncontained Nuclear Reaction does OK damage, and the buff is great, but it makes her so fragile that I really want to switch her out afterwards. However, the 50% post-usage guage tempts me to leave her in. It doesn't do nearly enough damage to justify switching her in and out like other heavy nukers anyway. Without her self-buff, her other spells don't do fantastic damage, and her self-buff itself takes several uses to reach the same levels that are provided by Iku or even Maribel, who only need a single turn.
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By the time you get Renko, you really don't want to be reducing your active gauges in any battle. That's liable to kill you, especially in a boss fight.
I think lots of people here are severely underestimating and needlessly hating on Renko's charge. I can definitely understand where it comes from, though. Active gauge is gimped and Renko hurts herself in the process. I mean, it's not like you're ever going to raise Renko's offensive stats anyway since the only time you want to use Galaxy Stop, which is like the only damaging attack you ever want to have her use, it's for the PAR and not for the damage. >_> Anyway, her shtick is Debilitate in any case. Yes Charge can be dangerous but sweet Jesus I trust you all have the /judgment/ to know when to properly use it. That or you can tank everything ever like I can :derp:
Re: Yuyuko Syndrome
Twink harder
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Reisen is one of my favorite characters from the series, but hear uses are limited to specific boss fights. Against absolutely anything else she either has a laughably low damage output or the enemy is immune/highly resistant to stat debuffs (and random mobs
will should die too fast to make use of them). To top it all off her self-buff, while good, doesn't help when her base stats are all some of the lowest I've seen. I'm sorta wondering if they thought she might be too overpowered and ended up overcompensating...
...Also, I'm experiencing Ghaleon's issue. My Sanae has higher DEF, MND, HP, and every single affinity than Minoriko has, and yet somehow she gets one-shot by things that Minoriko doesn't die from. Every single raw stat has been levelled to give Sanae a singificantly higher advantage, so how the crap does she die more easily?
...Oh, and on something mentioned earlier, Eirin indeed makes for a good tank. Before I dropped her for one of the spoiler characters she was a very effective 2nd slot tank to back up Tenshi/Meiling (usually Tenshi becuase I like her better). Her overhealing was especially useful to help survive the big stuff that I knew was coming (as well as for random stuff aimed at the first slot that pierced defenses).
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I'm most likely wrong, but maybe there's a hidden "base" stat for many of the formulas. Its similar to this one game I played, where your damage was based on not just your strength/magic stat to your opponents defense/magic defense stat, but also the strength of your weapon vs defense of your opponents armor(depending where you attack), or the strength of the spell you're casting. For LoT, maybe every character has a preset set of stats with some stats being higher than others and higher than another characters. It could explain why someone like Tenshi can be a defensive wall while Chen is like glass and easily shattered.
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Reisen is one of my favorite characters from the series, but hear uses are limited to specific boss fights. Against absolutely anything else she either has a laughably low damage output or the enemy is immune/highly resistant to stat debuffs (and random mobs will die too fast to make use of them). To top it all off her self-buff, while good, doesn't help when her base stats are all some of the lowest I've seen. I'm sorta wondering if they thought she might be too overpowered and ended up overcompensating...
...Also, I'm experiencing Ghaleon's issue. My Sanae has higher DEF, MND, HP, and every single affinity than Minoriko has, and yet somehow she gets one-shot by things that Minoriko doesn't die from. Every single raw stat has been levelled to give Sanae a singificantly higher advantage, so how the crap does she die more easily?
Though I don't use Reisen and am not really much of a fan of her outside of the fighting games, I found her perfectly fine for sweeping trash. I haven't used her in boss fights yet, but Grand Patriot's Elixir and Discarder both seem like they'd make her great for that (and Parallaxal's videos support that as well, though I haven't seen a fight yet where she kept up with Orin or Nitori in damage). And if you don't use Wriggle, there's Gas-Woven Orb for poison as well.
I'm going to have to admit I'm seeing the Sanae issue more often as well, and it confuses me to no end. I haven't seen much use for single target healers with both Rumia and Reimu on the team, and Iku can provide much better offensive buffs with lower delay, so I haven't been using either of them lately.
For LoT, maybe every character has a preset set of stats with some stats being higher than others and higher than another characters. It could explain why someone like Tenshi can be a defensive wall while Chen is like glass and easily shattered.
I'm hoping I'm just misinterpreting you, because it's pretty obvious every character has different stats. :derp:
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Though I don't use Reisen and am not really much of a fan of her outside of the fighting games, I found her perfectly fine for sweeping trash.
Trust me when I say I tried to use her as often as I possibly could... Her attacks have pretty poor damage formulas. Even Ran's attacks are better at enemy sweeping.
I haven't used her in boss fights yet, but Grand Patriot's Elixir and Discarder both seem like they'd make her great for that (and Parallaxal's videos support that as well, though I haven't seen a fight yet where she kept up with Orin or Nitori in damage). And if you don't use Wriggle, there's Gas-Woven Orb for poison as well.
Since buffs raise stats by a precent how good Reisen can get is heavily based on how strong she is on her own. Because she has some of the worst stats in the game on her own, Grand Patriot's Elixer only succeeds in putting her on par with everyone else. To make her worth fighting with I'd have to eat up valuable turns to reuse it repeatedly.
Gas-Woven Orb is a highly "meh" poison skill at best. If I'm poisoning someone I'd be better off using someone dedicated to it, and Reisen has better moves to use as a form of attack.
Discarder is what I said... Random foes should not be living long enough for debuffs to matter, and against bosses only like two has it work on them... Everything else is either completely immune to it or highly resistant enough that only 1 or 2 of them all will take effect (and lets face it: one of them will be -EVA).
I'm going to have to admit I'm seeing the Sanae issue more often as well, and it confuses me to no end. I haven't seen much use for single target healers with both Rumia and Reimu on the team, and Iku can provide much better offensive buffs with lower delay, so I haven't been using either of them lately.
Sanae is the only character I have that can buff speed outside Nitori's self-buff (which is also very useful). Furthermore, my primary tank is Tenshi, not Meiling, so I need the status cure (not to mention Sanae's magic is high enough that only 2 or 3 teammates can't be fully healed with one cast, so its not like she's a bad healer). As such, she's still an invaluable asset to me.
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Trust me when I say I tried to use her as often as I possibly could... Her attacks have pretty poor damage formulas. Even Ran's attacks are better at enemy sweeping.
Since buffs raise stats by a precent how good Reisen can get is heavily based on how strong she is on her own. Because she has some of the worst stats in the game on her own, Grand Patriot's Elixer only succeeds in putting her on par with everyone else.
Discarder is what I said... Random foes should not be living long enough for debuffs to matter, and against bosses only like two has it work on them... Everything else is either completely immune to it or highly resistant enough that only 1 or 2 of them all will take effect (and lets face it: one of them will be -EVA).
Sanae is the only character I have that can buff speed outside Nitori's self-buff (which is also very useful). Furthermore, my primary tank is Tenshi, not Meiling, so I need the status cure (not to mention Sanae's magic is high enough that only 2 or 3 teammates can't be fully healed with one cast, so its not like she's a bad healer). As such, she's still an invaluable asset to me.
I know her formulas are bad, but they aren't that bad. I use Mokou constantly, and her formulas for most of her attacks are pretty similar (Flying Phoenix is the same as Discarder, the multi-target attacks are all pretty similar sans Fujiwara Volcano) with rather similar MAG growths (if I remember that correctly). The difference: Mokou has no self-buffs and her debuffs are limited to what's probably her worst attack, and debuff by such a small value they aren't really worth using. Grand Patriot's Elixir buffs every stat by a good amount and has low delay; it doesn't take much to have her moving at double speed and hitting hard while debuffing like crazy, with good durability to boot.
And, uh...you don't have Sakuya or Aya on the team? Really? :x I have a hard time understanding how people can play without speed buffers, getting more turns in against bosses is an indispensable ability imo (until the later floors when everyone's speed is so high it hardly matters, but we aren't exactly talking about that right now :V)
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I'm hoping I'm just misinterpreting you, because it's pretty obvious every character has different stats. :derp:
You are. I'm referring to a hidden base stat, not the actual Level 1 stats all characters have. I'll use Tenshi and Yuyuko to explain this.
At level 1, here's Tenshi and Yuyuko's Defense and Mind stats.
Tenshi
DEF: 61
MND: 61
Yuyuko:
DEF: 26
MND: 66
While a big number would probably be more accurate for this, I'll just use a smaller one, with 0 being the lowest and 10 being the biggest.
Since Tenshi's rating for her DEF and MND are listed as *(Being the best) and A respectively on the Wiki, her DEF is a 10 and her MND is a 9. Yuyuko however has a D and a *, so I'd say her base number would be 3 for DEF(Maybe a 4, I just feel like 4 would be more accurate) and her MND is a 10. Of course I'm using smaller numbers for simplicity, but if it were larger, then it would be much more diverse.
Now let's apply the hidden stat into real play.
Let's say both Tenshi and Yuyuko had 5000 defense and mind with the same Affinity numbers, no buffs, and hit with 3 attacks while in the same spot(2 different times obviously :V). The 1st attack targets Defense, the 2nd attack targets MND, and 3rd ignores DEF/MND. If my theory is true, Tenshi would take 0 damage for the 1st attack, 2nd would barely damage her, and the 3rd would damage her noticeably, while Yuyuko would take some damage from the 1st attack, 2nd wouldn't hurt her, and 3rd would deal a noticeable amount of damage like Tenshi.
This is mainly just a theory. I could try testing if i edit the actual stats/affinities of characters. Only other thing I could think of is bullshit from the RNG. :V
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Yeah I'm pretty positive such a hidden stat doesn't exist. Especially considering they have an on-site wiki and even released a complete database for everything with Special Disk, we would have known by now.
It could explain why someone like Tenshi can be a defensive wall while Chen is like glass and easily shattered.
I also think this is a REALLY weird example for reasoning. Tenshi is a defensive wall because she has great DEF/MND growth and nice leveling rate, with a wonderful 100% DEF/MND buff. Chen, on the other hand, has shit for growths in pretty much every stat other then SPD and EVA, and of course she'll be easily shattered.
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I know her formulas are bad, but they aren't that bad. I use Mokou constantly, and her formulas for most of her attacks are pretty similar (Flying Phoenix is the same as Discarder, the multi-target attacks are all pretty similar sans Fujiwara Volcano) with rather similar MAG growths (if I remember that correctly). The difference: Mokou has no self-buffs and her debuffs are limited to what's probably her worst attack, and debuff by such a small value they aren't really worth using. Grand Patriot's Elixir buffs every stat by a good amount and has low delay; it doesn't take much to have her moving at double speed and hitting hard while debuffing like crazy, with good durability to boot.
No matter how much I buff Reisen Discarder always seemed to do 0 damage (except for one random time it did a surprising amount of damage to the 16F boss). I think Reisen is really just that weak.
And, uh...you don't have Sakuya or Aya on the team? Really? :x I have a hard time understanding how people can play without speed buffers, getting more turns in against bosses is an indispensable ability imo (until the later floors when everyone's speed is so high it hardly matters, but we aren't exactly talking about that right now :V)
When I first made my team people wouldn't shut up about how useless Sakuya was except for her speed buff, not to mention I'm not really a fan of her, so there wasn't much making me keep her on. I'm not using Aya because I'm using Chen, and it was pretty much agreed you should use one or the other.
Generally, my team maxes out buffs with Ran and tanks during enemy phase and attacks once the attack buffs are maxed. Admittedly a pretty slow way of doing it, but its my first playthrough, so I'm in no hurry.
EDIT: Of course, the fact I can no longer play since the game won't work on my new computer kinda renders it all moot... Kinda ironic I'm unable to play right after I reach the final boss.
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And, uh...you don't have Sakuya or Aya on the team? Really? :x I have a hard time understanding how people can play without speed buffers, getting more turns in against bosses is an indispensable ability imo (until the later floors when everyone's speed is so high it hardly matters, but we aren't exactly talking about that right now :V)
Neither did I...Until I tried it. Have you? I'd be pretty surprised if you actually did and were were like zomg it's unpossible!
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I'm not using Aya because I'm using Chen, and it was pretty much agreed you should use one or the other.
What.
Neither did I...Until I tried it. Have you? I'd be pretty surprised if you actually did and were were like zomg it's unpossible!
I have and it works, but I'd rather have speed buffs in most cases. Faster healers and buffers compensating for everyone having a glass cannon build is pretty useful, and I'm pretty sure speed buffs affect SP regen when switched out.
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What.
Also keep in mind this was back when the game was first introduced... Remember, at this point everyone agreed there was no legitimate reason to use Minoriko over Sanae (unlike now, where most argue the opposite), Wriggle's poison was useless and she was only effective as a semi-tank, and that Alice was too good.
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What.
I have and it works, but I'd rather have speed buffs in most cases. Faster healers and buffers compensating for everyone having a glass cannon build is pretty useful, and I'm pretty sure speed buffs affect SP regen when switched out.
It does. honestly the hp/sp regen while switched out I miss most actually. Speedier buffers not so much because it also means your buffs decay faster too (not cuz the buffers themselves are speedier, but you know what I mean). This isn't really counterproductive at ALL for atk based buffs, but the def ones it's a little setback. Speed buffing overall is a plus so I'm not saying it hurts you because of that, but I think it kind of cancels out "faster buffs" somewhat.
Also keep in mind this was back when the game was first introduced... Remember, at this point everyone agreed there was no legitimate reason to use Minoriko over Sanae (unlike now, where most argue the opposite), Wriggle's poison was useless and she was only effective as a semi-tank, and that Alice was too good.
don't forget:
"lolol you have to grind 20+ levels before you fight Alice, and 50+ levels before you fight 12f boss".
lawl...
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Marisa. I've never seen Master Spark do enough damage to make it worth having a character in the party that can only attack once. Her other spells aren't anything special, though decent for clearing trash.
Really?
The thing about Marisa is that after her initial full-SP master spark, she doesn't need to recharge back to maximum to do serious damage again (If her magic is boosted, it'll still be doing huge damage even at minimum SP). And she's got such a huge SP pool that with a tiny bit of SP recovery rate boosting, that'll be very shortly.
Because she has some of the worst stats in the game on her own, Grand Patriot's Elixer only succeeds in putting her on par with everyone else.
No matter how much I buff Reisen Discarder always seemed to do 0 damage (except for one random time it did a surprising amount of damage to the 16F boss). I think Reisen is really just that weak.
Eh... I'm not so sure of that. I haven't even put much in the way of stat points into her, and yet she'd have MAG stat getting close to Patchouli's and SPD outmatching Aya's when she's got Grand Patriot's going, and the thing is she can do that fast. Really fast. If I was to put the skill points into her, I don't doubt I'd be happy with the results.
And, uh...you don't have Sakuya or Aya on the team? Really? :x I have a hard time understanding how people can play without speed buffers, getting more turns in against bosses is an indispensable ability imo (until the later floors when everyone's speed is so high it hardly matters, but we aren't exactly talking about that right now :V)
I hate using both of them personally. In return I use Cirno whenever a boss is even moderately vulneurable to debuffs for the purpose of spiking and holding them down at -50% Speed as much as possible. Also Kaguya.
I'm not using Aya because I'm using Chen, and it was pretty much agreed you should use one or the other.
I don't think that's true, but I don't think you'd wanna use Aya's buffing on Chen. Why? Chen's rapid-fire turn nature would burn through those buffs really fast, and I don't think it'd make a huge difference due to the way speed works.
Random foes should not be living long enough for debuffs to matter, and against bosses only like two has it work on them...
The hell you talking about? Debuffs work on a lot of stuff; hell, even if the boss has 80% debuff resistance, if it's being hit by the five different kinds of debuffs all at once, chances are something is going to stick, and each one that does is an advantage in your favour.
Remember, at this point everyone agreed there was no legitimate reason to use Minoriko over Sanae (unlike now, where most argue the opposite)
I never saw this happen, ever.
Any time it actually came up to compare them, people argued in favour of Minoriko. And keep in mind, I've been following this since before it even had an english patch.
EDIT: Also, I'm totally going to start a playthrough under some... special... conditions. 8D
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I hate using both of them personally. In return I use Cirno whenever a boss is even moderately vulneurable to debuffs for the purpose of spiking and holding them down at -50% Speed as much as possible.
I'm not sure why I didn't think of this. Boss at -50% speed would comparatively be everyone else at 100% speed...
Though, I did get a lot of speed debuffs out of Komachi when I used to use her, among other useful ailments.
I never saw this happen, ever.
Any time it actually came up to compare them, people argued in favour of Minoriko.
Let me put it this way; I didn't pick Sanae just because I like her more as a character.
Anyway, just ragequit the 18F boss fight after he opened up by targetting patchy in the back row with a 5000-damage regular attack. Giving serious thought to starting another playthrough as a distraction, because the other playthrough I have sitting at 5f just has more glass cannon builds.
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I'm not sure why I didn't think of this. Boss at -50% speed would comparatively be everyone else at 100% speed...
Exactly.
Although in general they are less likely to connect, as most bosses have some level of debuff resistance, the fact is that debuffing a boss' attack stats reduces the damage ALL party members take in a way similar to buffing everyone's defense; debuffing a boss' defense increases the damage everyone does; and debuffing a boss' speed increases everyone's speed advantage.
Obviously this works best if you both buff and debuff where possible.
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Exactly.
Although in general they are less likely to connect, as most bosses have some level of debuff resistance, the fact is that debuffing a boss' attack stats reduces the damage ALL party members take in a way similar to buffing everyone's defense; debuffing a boss' defense increases the damage everyone does; and debuffing a boss' speed increases everyone's speed advantage.
Obviously this works best if you both buff and debuff where possible.
On second thought, this is what I've been doing with every boss so far.
...no wonder I'm getting raped by 18f. :V
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Characters not being as good as I had hoped? All, save for the 12 I used :getdown:
"Ok, everyone I name is very good, the rest, you suck. Remi, Reimu, Marisa, Patchy, Meiling, Yukari
, Ran, Flandre, Komachi, Rinnosuke
, Siki
, Utsuho
, Sanae and Alice
Warning - while you were typing 10 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post
Jeez you guys :V
Edit: Flandre just OK'ed Bloody Papa with a single Starbow Break. 2.5 Million damage. Yes, i decided to get back into the game despite the mega lag from every attack. I don't have 2.06 so I can't turn off animation either. :fail:
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Characters not being as good as I had hoped? All, save for the 12 I used :getdown:
"Ok, everyone I name is very good, the rest, you suck. Remi, Reimu, Marisa, Patchy, Meiling, Yukari
, Ran, Flandre, Komachi, Rinnosuke
, Siki
, Utsuho
, Sanae and Alice
Warning - while you were typing 10 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post
Jeez you guys :V
Edit: Flandre just OK'ed Bloody Papa with a single Starbow Break. 2.5 Million damage. Yes, i decided to get back into the game despite the mega lag from every attack. I don't have 2.06 so I can't turn off animation either. :fail:
Then get 2.06. :V
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Why don't you just get Special Disk instead?
Also: Fun facts: Version 1.0 did not have working sound effects.
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Eh... I'm not so sure of that. I haven't even put much in the way of stat points into her, and yet she'd have MAG stat getting close to Patchouli's and SPD outmatching Aya's when she's got Grand Patriot's going, and the thing is she can do that fast. Really fast. If I was to put the skill points into her, I don't doubt I'd be happy with the results.
Try it sometime and be ready to cry like I did. Especially if you're as big a fan of her as I am.
I don't think that's true, but I don't think you'd wanna use Aya's buffing on Chen. Why? Chen's rapid-fire turn nature would burn through those buffs really fast, and I don't think it'd make a huge difference due to the way speed works.
As I said, this was all a very long time ago. Nobody believes in "only one or the other" anymore since they now realize the two have completely different roles.
The hell you talking about? Debuffs work on a lot of stuff; hell, even if the boss has 80% debuff resistance, if it's being hit by the five different kinds of debuffs all at once, chances are something is going to stick, and each one that does is an advantage in your favour.
Debuffs are only that great if they're stacked, and if the boss has 80% stat debuff resistance you can expect to see very few stacked. Yeah, -15% does have its uses, but it's not that godly when it will pretty much go away after 1 or 2 more enemy turns, and in the time Reisen takes to try and get them to finally take effect you could just deal damage with a heavy-hitter.
Don't get me wrong, Reisen isn't useless of course, but you can't just stick her in your team willy-nilly. You need a team that compliments her, so for example, you could make use of her if you were to make a team built around debuffing and lockdown (Komachi + Reisen makes for a pretty good debuff team, and if you have Yuyuko to delay the enemy turn on top of Suwako for paralysis you could make the effects stay and stack even on the most resistant, and with Wriggle you could just laugh as you have an easy time on bosses, even if you had no nukers).
Any time it actually came up to compare them, people argued in favour of Minoriko. And keep in mind, I've been following this since before it even had an english patch.
I'm talking about here. During the early days (see: the first topic) most took each character at face-value without looking at the raw stats, which means they didn't really notice Minoriko's better fomula. Most just noticed Sanae's better magic, defense, attacks, and that her heal also cured statuses and her buff added to everything. Very few like Sanae anymore, but she was pretty popular early on since she looked like Minoriko 2.0 at first glance.
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then they realized minoriko had better MND on top of that, and still healed lots even with all levels on MND, and suddenly Mino not only doesn't get sweeped, but can friggin tank magic
and they laughed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBGb-1vojm8)
also Reisen's damage isn't terrible, it's just not really great or anything (Unless the enemy is weak to MYS+low MND, or weak to FIR). Parallaxal's videos prove it. She's still not really worth using over other choices, except against specific debuff-weak bosses before you have Renko.
I have a great urge to use Maribel in my party again whenever I get her because <3. But she's not that good... especially in a party with DEF-Yukari tanker, MND-Iku tanker, making her self-buff is only really special for SPD-buffing... well, I suppose I'll just see. And drop her if she's just that bad in my party ): which tbh is kinda likely, she really doesn't fit in well at all
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> Hibachi and Dual Hibachi's both got OK'ed by Flandre's Laevatein. Can you say 6 Million Damage? XD
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> Hibachi and Dual Hibachi's both got OK'ed by Flandre's Laevatein. Can you say 6 Million Damage? XD
You either need to record that, or give me your prefight save file so I can. :V
I have a great urge to use Maribel in my party again whenever I get her because <3. But she's not that good... especially in a party with DEF-Yukari tanker, MND-Iku tanker, making her self-buff is only really special for SPD-buffing... well, I suppose I'll just see. And drop her if she's just that bad in my party ): which tbh is kinda likely, she really doesn't fit in well at all
oh god don't tell me she's bad because I've been looking forward to getting her
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You either need to record that, or give me your prefight save file so I can. :V
I'll say it for you... FFFFFFFFFFFFFUU- I saved over the file and don't have any way of recording save for a camera, the not-video-camera type. I'll give you some of Flandre's stats though, if you'd like.
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I'll say it for you... FFFFFFFFFFFFFUU- I saved over the file and don't have any way of recording save for a camera, the not-video-camera type. I'll give you some of Flandre's stats though, if you'd like.
:C
I don't really want the stats, I just wanted a video on Youtube of Flan kicking Hibachi ass in one turn. :V
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> Hibachi and Dual Hibachi's both got OK'ed by Flandre's Laevatein. Can you say 6 Million Damage? XD
Dual Hibachi is immune to Composite attack due to #1's absurdly high DEF, and #2's absurdly high MND, IIRC.
Edit: Flandre just OK'ed Bloody Papa with a single Starbow Break. 2.5 Million damage. Yes, i decided to get back into the game despite the mega lag from every attack. I don't have 2.06 so I can't turn off animation either. :fail:
2.5M Starbow Break, eh? :o
even my lvl 319 Flan with all level up bonus to her ATK can't do 2.5M.
with 80% ATK buff, Starbow Break only hits for ~1.6M on mobs at floor 1.
And, on the topic "who's disappointing" (or such)
Okuu: Despite the defense-ignoring formula, Giga Flare is 3.5*MAG, compared to Shiki's 6.66*ATK, and Kaguya's 6.25*MAG (it's 2.5*(2.5*MAG))
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Dual Hibachi is immune to Composite attack due to their absurdly high MND/DEF, IIRC.
And, on the topic "who's disappointing" (or such)
Okuu: Despite the defense-ignoring formula, Giga Flare is 3.5*MAG, compared to Shiki's 6.66*ATK, and Kaguya's 6.25*MAG (it's 2.5*(2.5*MAG))
That reminds me...
Fire Rat's Robe: (2.5xMAG)
Swallow's Cowrie Shell: 2.5x(1.25xMAG) plus removes debuffs on Kaguya
Same SP costs and delay
Erm, outside of elemental resistances, is there any reason NOT to use Shell over Robe?
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Erm, outside of elemental resistances, is there any reason NOT to use Shell over Robe?
Nope! It's worth mentioning that the formulas were not made with MND-ignoring in mind, that only being an error in data entry ;P
I suppose you could say... they were really made with a lack of mindfulnes-*shot*
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Try it sometime and be ready to cry like I did. Especially if you're as big a fan of her as I am.
I have. Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEkKG7giHTM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLmlGKpATY
Against the infamous 18F boss, Reisen quickly buffs herself and does 70k+ per shot to the Cold and Spirit forms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZq2SQaGOZE
1.5 million damage against the Baal Avatar (roughly 25% of the boss's total health), plus several debuffs. And this is suppose to be one of the hardest of the Plus Disk Sigil Guardians. Reisen doesn't hit as hard as my other buffed characters here, but she hits a lot faster thanks to the massive speed boosts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pac3MSyrhhU
Reisen deals lots of damage plus tons of debuffs. Thanks to her self-buffs, her attacks easily outdamage Orin's unbuffed Blazing Wheel, and she attacks much faster as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnPY4kJ1t_o
About 4.5 million damage contributed by Reisen here against the Yuka boss battle (out of 18 million total damage dealt). Yuka actually has relatively decent debuff resistance, but even a little bit of SPD debuffs can be precious for delaying her final Master Spark.
The thing with Reisen is that I agree that she's not very good once you first get her. To reach her true potential, you'll need to have enough SP to chug a Grand Patriot's Elixir each time her buffs fall below 60%. By the time I reached the Plus Disk at level 200+, though, I had more than enough SP for just that. Keeping Reisen's stats at 60-80% every turn doesn't just make her stats decent, but fantastic. She currently has about 40k MAG at lvl 237. A 60-80% boost does indeed bring her MAG up to Patchy's level. She has close to 15k DEF right now; a 60-80% boost means 24-27k DEF...which is actually almost as much as Meiling currently has (that's why I usually let Reisen stay in during boss battles). And don't get me started on her speed; she's already one of my faster characters even without her buffs.
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Erm, outside of elemental resistances, is there any reason NOT to use Shell over Robe?
Different attack animation :]
seriously, yes, I've been thinking about that, too.
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The problem falls into when you're at a point where everyone is being given party DEF/MND buffs and offensive buffs as needed, so the self-buff characters aren't so special ;P Tis the big downer for Reisen, Maribel, and Suika.
Although, since you're running a fixed team without Reimu or Yukari, you don't have that. So that makes Reisen/Maribel more useful. Unless you start using Renko's Charge all the time, which isn't really advised; although as you get farther, careful use of it can be effective, and the damage it causes becomes more insignificant.
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The problem falls into when you're at a point where everyone is being given party DEF/MND buffs and offensive buffs as needed, so the self-buff characters aren't so special ;P Tis the big downer for Reisen, Maribel, and Suika.
I agree that self-buffers are more valuable if you're missing buffs of your own, but it's not like having party buffs make self-buffs worthless. Unless you're using Ran, chances are you're not going to get everyone buffed even with your party buffs, so your self-buffers can be the characters that you "miss" on purpose.
Reisen, though, I believe is in a special case all her own for a self-buffer. You see, Grand Patriot's Elixir is completely different in use from Overflowing Natural Power in that you don't just use it once and not recast it; I typically recast it after every 2 attacks or so. Why is this significant? Because buffs will run down, whether or not you're using party-wide buffs. Even after buffing everyone with Ran or Keine or whoever, after two or three attacks you'll have lost a good chunk of those buffs. So even if Reisen does get buffed by someone else, after a few turns when other characters' buffs are running down, she can pop herself back up to 100% with very little cost in time.
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Having the self-buff is still good, yeah, but the characters with them have below-average stats, so with everyone buffed they really have a harder time keeping up, even with an easier time holding high buffs. The main advantage though is that they've still got their unique SPD-boosting, since most don't use Sakuya or Aya ;3
I'm hoping that will redeem Maribel enough to keep her good enough to use in my party setup, since I really like her ;_; It's too bad her WND nuke isn't useful for the whole time you have her, since no bosses are weak to WND then, several resisting it, and then for randoms it's a row attack so... and her single-target is probably more useful for bosses then her SPI nuke unless you're switchwhoring; 50% delay with a high SPD buff is good enough to leave her out between attacks, right? Or, hmm, I wonder if Liberated Abilities outdamages it. It's a good MYS attack for Shikieiki's boss fight at least, and only 40% delay. Composite attacks are harder to predict in damage... except that Blazing Wheel is a lot better :\
Come to think of it, you still need to fight final boss ver.2! :D I had an easier time with her then Shikieiki, but that was with a different party, so. The Tetra Grammaton is really the whole difficulty of that fight, so it depends on whether you can beat it up. I know it can be debuffed and PSN'd, at least.
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I admit, I kind of forgot about the Final Boss v.2, and fought her after Shikieiki. It was...rather fast and easy. I have the video, but didn't post it.
Maribel isn't bad, but can be somewhat tricky to use. Liberated Abilities does about 350,000 damage to Shikieiki at lvl 240ish after buffing herself. Her row-based WND nuke has much better MND-piercing properties than her other spells, so it's good against higher MND targets. I use her for switchnuking, but leaving her in for Chaotic Quadruple Barrier spam isn't bad either. At lvl 240 with decent equipment, Maribel has about 10k DEF and almost 20k MND. With buffs, her MND becomes quite solid, although her DEF is still kind of shaky. I wouldn't be opposed to leaving her in when a boss attacks, though, unlike my other unbuffed attackers sans Mokou. Her MAG is over 45k right now, so after one buff her MAG does come close to Patchy levels, I guess.
I usually switch her out right after buffing herself, since it does cost her entire active guage. Afterwards, though, her speed buff plus her decent delay spells don't necessarily dictate switching her out. I just do so anyway because Reisen's usually the one occupying the stay-in position. However, I might try letting her stay in for my upcoming Utsuho battle.
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Actually, Utsuho is probably too dangerous to leave her out for, especially since Utsuho is resistant to things not either non-elemental, NTR, CLD, or SPI. That takes off most of your party's good attacks, really, so Maribel will be too valuable to risk losing; although if you boosted her FIR and MYS affinities a ton, she might take low enough damage... Giga Flare would be a big worry though. Hmm.
Also, I just realized how much speedier then everyone else Maribel gets after that self-buff, even with speed proration stuffs around Reimu lv260; just tested her out on my old save from last play. Maybe she'll still be a good member this run after all or maybe I should be getting Sakuya instead. And Liberated Abilities does indeed outdamage her single-target after buffing; although that was tested on 1F enemies, so I'm not certain it'd hold up later. And the extra 10% delay... hmm. Maybe using her big nuke so the buff doesn't run down as fast would be best after all? I guess it's more of a situational thing.
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I can't find the old post that had a download for all the old tunes. Any chance you guys can add it to the first post? I don't really care for the new ones.
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I can't find the old post that had a download for all the old tunes. Any chance you guys can add it to the first post? I don't really care for the new ones.
You can change which music the game uses in Akyu's House. About downloading the old music, I dunno where that went ^^;
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Dual Hibachi is immune to Composite attack due to #1's absurdly high DEF, and #2's absurdly high MND, IIRC.
2.5M Starbow Break, eh? :o
570K Attack or so will do that for ya. Starbow break that is. 230K MAG helps with Laevatein, as does a Full ATK and MAG Buff.
:C
I don't really want the stats, I just wanted a video on Youtube of Flan kicking Hibachi ass in one turn. :V
I'll try, but nothing I can really do for now. Would OHKOing a V.2 Bloody Seal be a decent make-up? If so, I'll try that.
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You know what's awesome? Having Wriggle kill Orin v2 through actual damage while you're busy recharging for a Master Spark, thinking that's the only thing that'll actually output the damage you need to finish her off.
Even awesomer? Breaking Yukari
v2's AI by recovering and damaging her so fast after her first Djinn Storm (Slow her, then Marisa w/stupid high SP Recovery + Rumia + Cirno to keep slowed). Her next action was to Djinn Storm me again, but she never used Barrier Release, and was thus stuck in her first phase until I killed her.
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570K Attack or so will do that for ya. Starbow break that is. 230K MAG helps with Laevatein, as does a Full ATK and MAG Buff.
I dunno, they both have 10 Billion in their respective defenses...
That is NOT enough. I had well over 3M attack for Flandre and I was not doing a lot of damage.
EDIT: Oh wait, if you were referring to V1 then I am sorely mistaken >_>
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Even awesomer? Breaking Yukari
v2's AI by recovering and damaging her so fast after her first Djinn Storm (Slow her, then Marisa w/stupid high SP Recovery + Rumia + Cirno to keep slowed). Her next action was to Djinn Storm me again, but she never used Barrier Release, and was thus stuck in her first phase until I killed her.
"Awesomer" really is the only word for that.
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"Awesomer" really is the only word for that.
I broke the 16F boss like that :V
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I broke the 16F boss like that :V
I tried to, but I wasn't awesomer enough. :c
Though considering Kaguya, Suwako, and Youmu took her out before she could attack past her first form, I'm not complaining. :V
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Team Unappreciated vs. Utsuho Reiuji:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcjAVvuwL2Q
Got lucky in this fight, and saw Uncontained Nuclear Reaction and Giga Flare only once each. Also showed my status screen info, since I'm no longer worried about time now that youtube has extended the video limit.
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I have. Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEkKG7giHTM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLmlGKpATY
Against the infamous 18F boss, Reisen quickly buffs herself and does 70k+ per shot to the Cold and Spirit forms.
I didn't watch the other videos because I'm not far enough in my current playthru to compare but..Honestly that doesn't realy impress me at all. I'm *slightly* lower level (some characters equal, some like china 1 or 2 levels below) with my playthru, and Remi does about 50k damage after fresh buffs to ANY form, is much harder to kill, can spam it much faster, and isn't exploiting any elemental weaknesses... 70k hits fully buffed against 50% elemental weakness that late in the game just isn't really great IMO. I mean I rekon Marisa can do a simple plain old magic missle for similar amounts, without as much buffs.
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Can your Remi really spam her attack much faster than Reisen when she's giving herself 60-80% speed buffs along with everything else? Reisen also buffs herself a little faster, and can rebuff herself quickly and more easily (and not poison herself like Remilia did in your video). And technically, it's closer to 80k. I just round down. Given the speed buffs, she probably could have outpaced Yuugi solo against the Cold form, although I'll give you that Buddha's Stone Bowl synergy puts Yuugi over the top.
Regardless, though, the fact that she can put up numbers that aren't that much lower than Remilia's is pretty decent. Despite Ban's trolling, Remilia is still one of the best and most consistant damage dealers in the main game, and 18F boss is one of the worst matchups for Reisen due to his immunity to debuffs.
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if entire game=early game then yeah
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Remilia doesn't really lose her position until well into the Plus Disk, and most players never even get that far. On 18F boss, her buffed damage output is actually comparable to a buffed Nitori's; she does about half as much damage per hit, but attacks twice as fast, and can still easily take any hit.
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I dunno. I stopped using Remilia when Yuugi started kicking just as much ass with 6000 ATK without equipment at level 67, with a high 3500~ defense as well.
And we have MND tanks. Just ask Iku, and to a lesser extent, Suika. Although Suika's not-nuke has a rather bad formula.
Also, I started reading through the first thread, and when someone asked for help with Alice, somebody suggested using Iku to debuff defense.
Iku? I don't think so.
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Did a bit of grinding today. Reimu lv557. Scored an Arturos Gem from 30F grinding. Pretty nice.
Also swapped out Kaggy and put 16F in her place for full party ATB gauge filling. Makes most 30F crap get 1-2 turns or so, if that, before they fold.
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Why do I keep getting so unlucky with the timing of Mokou's Resurrection? She always seems to activate it just before my characters have all had their turns, so that I can't swap any attackers in before Fujiyama Volcano... Meiling can take two Volcanos to the face and still survive, but managing to get any attackers in with enough time left until Mokou's turn for them to attack is still not the easiest of tasks. This last attempt I was just about to finish her off with Nitori, but her and Mokou's action bars filled up at the same time. Guess who got to attack first? >:(
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Why do I keep getting so unlucky with the timing of Mokou's Resurrection?
Count the health. I think she uses it after dropping below 700,000 HP (starts at 1 million)
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Count the health. I think she uses it after dropping below 700,000 HP (starts at 1 million)
But :effort: :V
Anyway, keeping Remilia in the active party for most of the battle helped a lot; with her speed, she could both switch in Nitori for a buffed Linear Gun and get off a Spear the Gungnir before the first Fujiyama Volcano, which was enough to burn through those 80,000 HP Mokou had left. Now that I have all four characters needed, I should probably start using them a bit; it's 1,000 BP total for Eirin, Reisen, Sanae (why?), and Mokou to recruit Kaguya, right?
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Now that I have all four characters needed, I should probably start using them a bit; it's 1,000 BP total for Eirin, Reisen, Sanae (why?), and Mokou to recruit Kaguya, right?
Yup.
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What a coincidence. Mokou seems to be just what I was lacking when it comes to dealing efficiently with the 15F randoms, especially those annoying resistant-to-everything-but-fire Spectres. Trying out characters that I never really used in my previous playthrough is always fun.
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Mokou is really underrated. While I dropped her for bosskilling due to team constraints I still bring her out as my floor-clearing team since her attacks are very good for clearing mobs.
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I dunno, they both have 10 Billion in their respective defenses...
That is NOT enough. I had well over 3M attack for Flandre and I was not doing a lot of damage.
EDIT: Oh wait, if you were referring to V1 then I am sorely mistaken >_>
Yes, I was refering to the V1s, but I do plan on pretty much OHKOing the V.2 Twin Habachis. I thought they had 1 Billion, not 10... Oh well :V That's just more SKP spending on Flan-chans ATK and MAG for me :V 2500-2000 ATK-MAG SKL Levels should hold her for now though :3 Oh, and my Flan-chan is like level 250-ish XD
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Mokou is really underrated. While I dropped her for bosskilling due to team constraints I still bring her out as my floor-clearing team since her attacks are very good for clearing mobs.
It's not that she's underrated, it's that she had Reisen-tier spells and MAG, but without a self-buff.
Though Fujiyama Volcano is pretty good. Not Hourai Barrage or Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana good, but it's passable.
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Tried to get a Floppy Bunny-Ear Headband in 13F (to fill up my equipment list), but those rabbits just wouldn't ever drop it. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong or if that drop is just that rare, because Reimu gained like 6 levels since I started.
13F is good for grinding at least, everything just dies so fast. No bronze golems or blackenmels to make the fights take forever.
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Yes, I was refering to the V1s, but I do plan on pretty much OHKOing the V.2 Twin Habachis. I thought they had 1 Billion, not 10... Oh well :V That's just more SKP spending on Flan-chans ATK and MAG for me :V 2500-2000 ATK-MAG SKL Levels should hold her for now though :3 Oh, and my Flan-chan is like level 250-ish XD
the skill levels.. the level..
lvl 250 Flan vs Dual Hibachi v1.
oh my... :ohdear:
I've done something wrong, I assume.
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the skill levels.. the level..
lvl 250 Flan vs Dual Hibachi v1.
oh my... :ohdear:
I've done something wrong, I assume.
? I take it you turned them into flaming piles of dead? Or did they do that to you?
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? I take it you turned them into flaming piles of dead? Or did they do that to you?
I think he's talking about you ;P
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I think he's talking about you ;P
So Nanoka~ :P But seriously, I don't see what's so :ohdear: about it. Maybe I'm just dumb, or maybe I'm overlooking something obvious, but I don't quite get what is so worthy of "I've done something wrong, I assume"
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So Nanoka~ :P But seriously, I don't see what's so :ohdear: about it. Maybe I'm just dumb, or maybe I'm overlooking something obvious, but I don't quite get what is so worthy of "I've done something wrong, I assume"
If I'm not mistaken, you were at least 100 levels overleveled.
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The skill levels say he's hacking. Not all of us are patient after all, and it's a game, so if that's what he wants to do to have fun, so be it.
That said: you're going to need to hack in a fucking ridiculous Flan if you want to OHKO, hell, even defeat, Twin Hibachis v2. I tried it myself with a Level 10000 Flan with bonuses invested in Attack (note that, due to how the stat mechanics work, levels are more important than skill levels, so a Level 250 character is still going to be limited regardless of how much Skill you invest in them), and a Skill Level 5000 in Attack, which gets me about 150,000,000 Attack+Magic. It's enough to OHKO ***WINNER***, but still deals 0 to Physical Hibachi v2 due to his 1,000,000,000 Defense (Forbidden Fruit/Laevatein will also deal 0 to Magical Hibachi v2 due to its 1,000,000,000 Mind, though you can kill that one with Starbow Break). You're better off hacking in a high-level Kaguya if you want to OHKO Twin Hibachis, since Hourai Barrage will ignore those defenses.
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Speaking of a lack of patience, I'm starting a new game tomorrow because my glass cannon builds are made of fail. Still deciding on the team, but it'll definitely contain Tenshi, Iku, Minoriko (unless I catch the dumb and try Sanae again), and
Maribel
.
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The skill levels say he's hacking. Not all of us are patient after all, and it's a game, so if that's what he wants to do to have fun, so be it.
I've beaten everything in 2.04 already, so this is more like my next shot, and not limiting myself :P Yes, I am cheating.That said: you're going to need to hack in a fucking ridiculous Flan if you want to OHKO, hell, even defeat, Twin Hibachis v2. I tried it myself with a Level 10000 Flan with bonuses invested in Attack (note that, due to how the stat mechanics work, levels are more important than skill levels, so a Level 250 character is still going to be limited regardless of how much Skill you invest in them), and a Skill Level 5000 in Attack, which gets me about 150,000,000 Attack+Magic. It's enough to OHKO ***WINNER***, but still deals 0 to Physical Hibachi v2 due to his 1,000,000,000 Defense (Forbidden Fruit/Laevatein will also deal 0 to Magical Hibachi v2 due to its 1,000,000,000 Mind, though you can kill that one with Starbow Break). You're better off hacking in a high-level Kaguya if you want to OHKO Twin Hibachis, since Hourai Barrage will ignore those defenses.
FFFFFF- Well then, this victory will be that much better, should I achieve it! Please note, my file hasn't even entered 21F yet, as I had only recently gotten the 3rd star needed.
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Team Unappreciated vs. Kedamagrammaton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRjMzkPPRbc
Since I lacked DEF/MND piercing attacks aside from Nitori (and Rumia), I focused on surviving Rankain instead. Which was just as well, given that the boss decided to start off the fight with Rankain.
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Just watched your vids for the first time. The turns management must have taken a bit of practice. Were you overlevelled for Kedagrammaton?
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Wiki recommends lvl 275+. I'd estimate my party is equivalent to about Reimu lvl 272 or so, given that Minoriko levels faster than her, and I've never left Minoriko at the mansion since starting this playthrough.
I'm pretty sure I could have done this earlier, actually, but I hadn't finished exploring 27F until just now. I've done minimal grinding aside from the standard full exploration of each floor.
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Wiki probably never took into account how powerful a perma 80% buffed Megawatt could be. Stuff like this keep the game awesome fun.
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approximately how accurate is the Reimu=120 estimation for the 20f boss? I totally don't remember what I was on my first playthru (which was probably much higher than needed now now that we know more mechanics of this game). The Reimu = 90+ one for 18f boss seems pretty easy to do. And the level estimates for those 15f bosses were BS (they were all a cakewalk 10 levels below their "minimum") But I'm Reimu 112 atm, and the TRASH on 20F still kills multiple dudes sometimes...
Cosmic was sooooo much easier with a high dps party, that boss was total bs before >=P
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Team (9) was around 130 or so, I can't remember exactly, when I beat 20F. Given that they were also using EXP at a faster leveling rate, I think Reimu at 100 is good enough to start taking on the boss.
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I'm not so sure about that. You might be able to take her down, but all it will take is one badly placed Demon-slashing dance, or for her to select an attack like Berserk right after Overflowing Unnatural Power and you're as good as dead at that level.
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Well then. Is it just me, or is Hill Gigas ridiculously easy? I accidentally ran into it with my exploring party (which resulted in Mokou getting 1HKO'd before even having the time to attack), lost Reimu and Patchy to Thousand-Handed Kannons during the first few turns, forgot to keep Komachi healed enough to survive the more damaging attacks, and still ended up steamrollering the boss with Linear Guns, Return Inanimates, and a Master Spark thrown in for good measure. (By the way, isn't that the boss that you can also keep in near-constant paralysis lockdown if you have some PAR-inflicting characters with you?)
Now let's go see if the other 15F sigil guardian is as easy.
EDIT: So the other one was Great Stamp... I think I'll have to wait a bit before taking on that thing again.
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Yeah, Hill Gigas is easy. Great Stamp is the generally bitchy one.
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Whats a good reimu level for 18F boss?
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around 100
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Just had an almost perfect Yuyuko battle; apart from me overestimating Mokou's ability to survive the opener, I didn't lose a single character. Perhaps putting off recruiting her until after exploring 15F was unnecessary, after all...
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Hill Gigas. Master Spark.
You can actually break 160K(I think) by Sparking that thing, it's crazy weak to MYS-based attacks. :D
(By the way, isn't that the boss that you can also keep in near-constant paralysis lockdown if you have some PAR-inflicting characters with you?)
I believe you are thinking of a Plus-Disk Boss. I don't know of any Main Game boss that can be Par-Locked, save for The Trio and maybe 16F Boss.
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The Foe's can suffer from par lock fairly often.
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The Foe's can suffer from par lock fairly often.
:o Your kidding... right? :( If I had known that, maybe they wouldn't have been such hell for me. Oh well. :V
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Hill Gigas can indeed be PAR locked. The FOE's can... with a bit of luck, and not as much the first one due to lack of Suwacker and SP.
For Great Stamp, debuff it's attack with Alice and keep it that way. Don't debuff it's SPD. Have Reimu with around 40% SP recovery so she can use her DEF/MND buff and heal a lot. Try to keep your nukers from being out when it attacks although it isn't that bad if they are (unless it's Patch or the attack debuff is running low), and whittle it's HP down with your nukes and WrigglePSN if you have Wriggle.
^With that strategy, you can win before doing any of 16F.
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Yuugi has decent Par for the first Foe.
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Yuugi has decent Par for the first Foe.
Again, SP. PAR only hits Foes 1/3rd of the time, and you've only got 3 people with a 30~45 PAR, not to mention the earlier in the game you are the shorter PAR is due to lower SPD. Unless you get lucky, you'll run out of SP fairly quickly trying to lockdown the first Foe, and not be all that close to killing it due to having spent your time spamming a short-lasting PAR that usually misses.
It's much more effective later in the game when you've got higher SPD for effectively longer PAR, Suwacko's PAR-90 and Komachi's PAR, and enough SP to actually be able to afford such a strategy.
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FFFFFF- Well then, this victory will be that much better, should I achieve it! Please note, my file hasn't even entered 21F yet, as I had only recently gotten the 3rd star needed.
It spent me about 1 month to get Flandre's ATK and MAG both up to 10M+ legitimately
if you seriously plan on doing this without hacking you will spend for-fucking-ever
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if you seriously plan on doing this without hacking you will spend for-fucking-ever
well he's already said he's hacking so :V
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well he's already said he's hacking so :V
Hacking to defeat a really hard boss is essentially taking the challenge out of it even more so than actually grinding to obscene levels and there is no effort involved at all... ::)
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stuff
Those few pars you get can be capitalized upon well and provide you with quite an advantage but I will agree Yuugi really shouldn't be trying to Par so much in that fight but it makes a good move to use if she ever has a free turn.
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Team ⑨ was around 130 or so, I can't remember exactly, when I beat 20F. Given that they were also using EXP at a faster leveling rate, I think Reimu at 100 is good enough to start taking on the boss.
Pretty sure you said you were higher.
Mystia at level 162, Wriggle at level 158. I think this is probably the only fight I didn't feel overleveled for. I was dealing around 120k per turn of combined damage. Poison did about 90k (~40% of overall damage). Left summon got killed first. Top and right went down at the same time. I think I'll try post game for a bit with the team.
Back to the original question, I think 120 Reimu is a decent level to attempt the final boss. I did it with Team Unappreciated a little bit higher (although since I wasn't actually using Reimu, it's not an exact estimate), and had a pretty easy time, although I was using Galaxy Stop to hax the first summon at the end while I dealt with the main boss.
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Well, I managed to surprise myself here. Reimu lv574 and *WINNER* has been taken down. Not even expecting that one. Only attempted it to see where I stood strength wise and how much more grinding I'd need. Was my 2nd try of the day. An early morning attempt went insta-quit with a 2nd round Longsword "Ringil" on my party before I could mount much defensive buffing or healing from the first attack.
2nd attempt was me getting lucky several times. It decided to burn like a 1/3rd or so of its turns during the first half of the fight using Flesh to Stone. Never saw Longsword "Ringil" once during the fight either...which I credit as the only reason I got lucky and won this fight.
Bad luck occured too.
Kinda figured the run was borked when Reimu got wiped by a Zantetsuken when she was in the 3rd slot, but I decided to press on since I still had Minoriko for backup healing and 16F for giving out extra turns via the ATB filler spell.
Remi scored the killing blow for me. Seems only natural my primary tank managed to score the kill (She did come close to getting wiped at one point though).
All in all, lost 4 characters during the fight.
Now I can think about a New Game+ and work on getting more *WINNER* kills (I'm rather crazy, yeah).
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Pretty sure you said you were higher.
Back to the original question, I think 120 Reimu is a decent level to attempt the final boss. I did it with Team Unappreciated a little bit higher (although since I wasn't actually using Reimu, it's not an exact estimate), and had a pretty easy time, although I was using Galaxy Stop to hax the first summon at the end while I dealt with the main boss.
Ah right. I've got level 127 stuck in my head about that area for some reason.
Regarding PAR locks, Mystia solo basically lives or dies based on whether her opener can get both procs off. Against Nitori, the move itself doesn't deal much because of the element but having both effects made the fights piss easy.
The only thing that people really die to is Flowing Hellfire from the Foe line. If you go before it does and get a PAR off, good for you. It's not crucial to maintain a lockdown against them.
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The Foe's seem to be similar to the Flame Tyrant. Will burn you crispy when given the chance, (but Foes being more merciful) and the easiest way to win is to Par-Lock, the foes you Par when you can and start nuking, Tyrant you lock up more then Fort Nox(sp?)
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Oh yeah, Flame Tyrant is really merciless if you don't PAR-lock him. 20k damage from Flowing Hellfire spam even with 500+ Fire affinity is really not comfortable at all. That was probably Team Unappreciated's worst Plus Disk battle up through 27F (although admittedly, I insisted on a no-PAR run (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pb0Waaxtfs)).
But for the Foe enemies, it really isn't necessary, especially since Flowing Hellfire is easy to predict. The thing is, they really don't have bad PAR resistance. All Foe enemies have 24 PAR resistance, which means they resist paralysis 72% of the time. Compare that to the Flame Tyrant, who only has a pathetic 5 PAR resistance stat.
Para-locking the Foes is doable with Suwako due to how long the effect last, but I don't think you'll be able to keep them locked down with lesser PAR effects unless you're extremely lucky.
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Has anyone else noticed that Mokou's "Wu" has the highest damage multiplier of any of her spells? :V Too bad it also has the lowest MAG influence.
Also, since I saw a Robe vs. Shell thing for Kaguya I'll point this out. Fire Rat's Robe has MAG influence of 250 and a Damage Multiplier of 100 while Swallow's Cowrie Shell has a MAG influence of 125 and a Damage Multiplier of 250. I have no idea what this compares for damage but the translated database is fun isn't it?
It should also be noted that Suika's Gathering and Dissipating isn't shown to remove stat buffs in the database, despite the in-game description clearly saying that it should (along with debuffs). Was this something that was changed with Special Disk maybe?
Also should be noted that Yukari's "Yakumo Ran+" essentially is doubled in power if both Chen and Ran are in the frontlines with her.
Giga Flare ignores MND. :V
God I love the translated database.
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So basically, if whoever made this game had remembered to include MND influence for Kaguya's spells (instead of leaving it out by mistake, as stated in the Database), then Fire Rat's Robe would have been a relatively weak spell with okay MND piercing properties, while Swallow's Cowrie Shell would have been a disappointing Nature spell with a worse formula than Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse? Good to know.
Then again, Kaguya would have still been useful for Buddha's Stone Bowl. It's just that now she's a great damage dealer as well.
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Has anyone else noticed that Mokou's "Wu" has the highest damage multiplier of any of her spells? :V Too bad it also has the lowest MAG influence.
Also, since I saw a Robe vs. Shell thing for Kaguya I'll point this out. Fire Rat's Robe has MAG influence of 250 and a Damage Multiplier of 100 while Swallow's Cowrie Shell has a MAG influence of 125 and a Damage Multiplier of 250. I have no idea what this compares for damage but the translated database is fun isn't it?
It should also be noted that Suika's Gathering and Dissipating isn't shown to remove stat buffs in the database, despite the in-game description clearly saying that it should (along with debuffs). Was this something that was changed with Special Disk maybe?
Also should be noted that Yukari's "Yakumo Ran+" essentially is doubled in power if both Chen and Ran are in the frontlines with her.
Giga Flare ignores MND. :V
God I love the translated database.
Flame vs shell.. That translates to shell being 25% stronger, nothing more because it ignores enemy def and mind completely. If it did not ignore mind, it would be a whole other ball game.
About 16f boss' move, the wiki said what you mean all along:
(Normal: 1.5, Ran in back row: 2, Ran in front row: 2.5, Chen and Ran in front row: 3) x ((MAG x same multiplier, but based on Chen instead of Ran) - (T.DEF / 2))
Note though that's more than double. Each multiplier doubles, which is actually quadruple (and in reality it will do more than that unless the target has no defenses)...That's compared to if they are not there at all, if you do have em in your party but are sitting out, it IS just about double (2.25X more powerful).
Unfortunately the spell is really pretty much craptacular for a single target damage spell with that delay and sp cost unless you have them both in the front lines
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Yeah, all that stuff you said has been on the English Wiki all year, YellowYoshi :V
Yukari's spell really isn't worth using still yeah. Chen isn't going to be in the front lines much when Yukari can move and with Ran also there, and Yukari is much better off going with DEF or MND levelups instead of MAG. Now, if you DID have a MAG-based Yukari, it'd be about as strong as Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, when both Chen and Ran are in the active party. But that's just so situational, and Yukari's survivability would be a good bit worse for wear... she's best to just tank and use supporting skills, which she's pretty good at.
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For ver 3.01
001171B0 10-12F red switch
001171B4 10-12F green switch
001171B8 10-12F blue switch
Have fun :D
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Yeah, all that stuff you said has been on the English Wiki all year, YellowYoshi :V
Not the change in Suika's "Gathering and Dissipating" description. :V
Once I find Suika again I'll have to find a way to test it to see if it changed at all with Special Disk. If it no longer removes buff then that would be fun.
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Nah, Gathering and Dissapating still removes buffs in 3.01.
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Not the change in Suika's "Gathering and Dissipating" description. :V
Once I find Suika again I'll have to find a way to test it to see if it changed at all with Special Disk. If it no longer removes buff then that would be fun.
Hell, I'll go test it right now.
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I'm kinda disappointed that it still removes her own buffs in 2.04.
What should I have expected?
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It still removes buffs in 3.01. I would've been pretty surprised if it didn't.
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Now I can think about a New Game+ and work on getting more *WINNER* kills (I'm rather crazy, yeah).
You think you're crazy, I killed *WINNER* 100 times
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Started a new game, forgot how much grinding sucked when every character could only use one multi-target skill before needing to switch out.
On the other hand, this'll remain funny until bosses start getting some resistances. (http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8512/ololk.png)
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Is that Komachi I see in the 1st slot? I know that the others are Yuyuko
Maribel
and Minoriko, but I can't quite make out the 1st slot.
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meiling
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You think you're crazy, I killed *WINNER* 100 times
If you've still got that save, you really should upload a video of doing that fight. Because damn. I suppose it's probably just a normal **Winner** fight with giant numbers and rape speed, but still, it's not like even hackers will ever put that much effort into fighting **Winner**.
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yeah there was a winner fight on nico with flandre solo doing 97m damage per hit and him having over 1 billion HP
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Started a new game, forgot how much grinding sucked when every character could only use one multi-target skill before needing to switch out.
On the other hand, this'll remain funny until bosses start getting some resistances. (http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8512/ololk.png)
Yeah, considering New Game + became 'standard', I'm really surprised the early bosses weren't given at least some Death resistance to compensate. I mean, really.
Nice to have a free pass through Youmu though.
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Speaking of New Game+...
I tried to start one up. Yeah, transferring characters worked. It also apparently gave some characters on the first few pages some exp ranging from 500 to almost half a million. Moreso, page 5 characters all had the exact same status resists and elemental affinities (Which I want to say are Reimu's or very close to it to boot?).
Question I have...does anyone happen to have a New Game+ file that will work in 3.01 without any of the wily occurences I mentioned above and has all characters unlocked and could post up a link or PM me it? Tried the link in the first post of this topic too and same problem arose. Thanks in advance.
You think you're crazy, I killed *WINNER* 100 times
True. I can't imagine how long it took to rack up 100 kills. I'm curious though if *WINNER*'s stats keep rising after 100 kills or not. Would be hilarious if his HP or some other stat overflowed or something like that.
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Question I have...does anyone happen to have a New Game+ file that will work in 3.01 without any of the wily occurences I mentioned above and has all characters unlocked and could post up a link or PM me it? Tried the link in the first post of this topic too and same problem arose. Thanks in advance.
Eh, well...I just saved over the brand-new NG+ file I had earlier today, but I could give you my current newest file. Only a few level ups, almost no skill points spent.
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Eh, well...I just saved over the brand-new NG+ file I had earlier today, but I could give you my current newest file. Only a few level ups, almost no skill points spent.
I suppose if all else fails, I'll have to take that. I'll check in tomorrow and see what else comes up, if anything.
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I suppose if all else fails, I'll have to take that. I'll check in tomorrow and see what else comes up, if anything.
Best of luck then. Really though, I haven't made any major progress. Everyone's around level 3-4, the most anyone has for skill points is five levels in one single stat, only boss beaten is China.
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Definitely need to get around to fixing a stock save file then. I'm going to try find the addresses for the switches to 13F and then upload the save with a new cheat table.
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Since I found out that recruiting Kaguya is going to require a ridiculous amount of BP among some underused people of mine, I decided to skp up Eirin and stick her in my party as a 2nd slot tank, eventually I'll go BP farming with her and Reisen. Oh joys.
My question is this, am I completely crazy in the head for making a DEF-based Eirin? Her offensive capabilities have always been... crap and I fugured she'd work out pretty well if I pumped up her better defensive stat so she could play tank+healer.
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If you've still got that save, you really should upload a video of doing that fight. Because damn. I suppose it's probably just a normal **Winner** fight with giant numbers and rape speed, but still, it's not like even hackers will ever put that much effort into fighting **Winner**.
Someone asked me if I still had the save on IRC
Sadly, I no longer have the save.
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My question is this, am I completely crazy in the head for making a DEF-based Eirin? Her offensive capabilities have always been... crap and I fugured she'd work out pretty well if I pumped up her better defensive stat so she could play tank+healer.
Defensive-based Eirin is actually recommended, as it's true that her formulas aren't too great, and her healing spell luckily doesn't rely on how good her MAG is, so you've no pressure to raise her MAG. Personally, I want to try all-out MAG Eirin next playthrough, with the goal of getting some solid numbers for her (along with ATK Komachi, ATK Sakuya, and more).
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Have you even tried an ATK Sakuya good sir?
It is very hard to make effective.
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Defensive-based Eirin is actually recommended, as it's true that her formulas aren't too great, and her healing spell luckily doesn't rely on how good her MAG is, so you've no pressure to raise her MAG. Personally, I want to try all-out MAG Eirin next playthrough, with the goal of getting some solid numbers for her (along with ATK Komachi, ATK Sakuya, and more).
MAG Eirin is both absolutely terrible. I went with both of them that way, Eirin was so useless she's pretty much unusable. Doesn't hit hard, can't take a hit either.
ATK Sakuya is alright for clearing trash with Soul Sculpture and can really put the hurt on low-DEF enemies with Killing Doll, but don't expect her to do anything special.
Let me know how ATK Komachi goes, I'm anticipating a Flandre clone with less damage and less survivability.
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ATK Sakuya is alright for clearing trash with Soul Sculpture and can really put the hurt on low-DEF enemies with Killing Doll, but don't expect her to do anything special.
Yeah, except I don't remember any trash enemies with really low-DEF that made Killing Doll do exceptional damage. At least on the floors where it mattered.
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Yeah, except I don't remember any trash enemies with really low-DEF that made Killing Doll do exceptional damage. At least on the floors where it mattered.
Me neither. :derp:
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Reimu level 95
should I keep trying Mr. Man or go grind more?
Screw it i'll grind.
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Have you even tried an ATK Sakuya good sir?
It is very hard to make effective.
Yes, yes, I have. That's the whole point of the challenge. Normal playthroughs bore me right now.
I took ATK-based Sakuya up to level 250+ on my first playthrough, but that was my first playthrough. I now know a whole lot more about the game, and I want to see if I can do better.
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Do a Suwako solo run :V
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Let me know how ATK Komachi goes, I'm anticipating a Flandre clone with less damage and less survivability.
Somehow I very much doubt survivability would remain an issue with Komachi. She'd be the same as ever - she takes a few hits before going down, but you can't do much about reducing that.
Also she'd be ridiculously powerful. I've been focusing a bit more on her ATK now (Up to beating the final boss I was raising almost entirely HP, with a bit of SP/Speed/Attack) and she's already started to show numbers good enough that I use her on SPI-weak stuff.
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Okay, her health growth is actually a lot higher than I thought it was, she probably could take a hit.
I'm still skeptical about her survivability though.
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I'm just going to throw out a list of ideas I've had here.
Things I want to try:
MND Patchy
DEF Remilia
ATK Meiling (lol)
ATK Komachi
DEF Wriggle
DEF Yuugi (pump those affinities!)
SPD Chen (yes really)
Yes, I am crazy.
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MND Patchy:I hear people actually use this. She'd probably take 0 damage from almost any magic, although physicals still wipe her and her damage would go down a bit. And her damage isn't really exciting later in the game in the first place... :\
DEF Remilia:Tried it; her survivability really doesn't go up all that much, and her offensive power takes a huge hit. I'd recommend ATK Remi over this.
ATK Meiling:Ha ha, old chap! Well, Healer would be a better heal... it's not the worst idea to use, I guess.
ATK Komachi:A good idea. Her HP takes a huge hit from this, trust me, but she'll do great damage.
DEF Wriggle:She doesn't really need her ATK anyway, mostly just makes her a useful person for randoms.
DEF Yuugi:She'll still get wiped by magic anyway, so :P
SPD Chen:olololol. IMO you'd be better off doing SPD Aya since her ATK isn't as exciting and she can SPD buff. SPD Aya would be an interesting thing to try, actually.
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Pretty much everything Serela said.
Though DEF Yuugi would be an amazing tank for physical bosses, considering she has the best DEF growth in the game.
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physical bosses
like what? :V
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like what? :V
You tell me. :V
After you said all of boss Mokou's attacks were physical aside from one, I'm not sure what's what anymore.
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like what? :V
Bosses with no magic attacks after recruiting Yuugi:
Nitori
Tenshi
Great Stamp
18F's 1st and last forms
Genocider
Hibachi (for the first 5 turns, at least; switch her out after the 2nd Needle Parade, and back in after the 3rd)
Several Version 2 bosses (Meiling, Chen, etc.)
Baal Avatar (Ha ha, old chap! Dark Blaze)
Bosses with mostly fire magic and physical attacks:
Orin
Mokou (only Flame Wind is magical, surprisingly)
Every single Foe boss
After you said all of boss Mokou's attacks were physical aside from one, I'm not sure what's what anymore.
I know, I really don't know why that's so too. But yeah, Fujiyama Volcano is purely physical, as are Fire Bird -Flying Phoenix- and Wu. Her only attacks that use MND are Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse (composite) and Flame Wind.
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Reimu level 100 Mr. Man looks doable if I can get past the first phase with minimal casulties.
It's a shame the first phase is mostly luck based though.
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Reimu level 100 Mr. Man looks doable if I can get past the first phase with minimal casulties.
It's a shame the first phase is mostly luck based though.
Could be worse. Could be like the Shikieiki fight, where the first half is trivial, and the latter part of the fight is totally luck-based.
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[21:44:39] <NeoSerela> :V
[21:44:54] <NeoSerela> GREAT WALL OF CHINA vs. **Winner**
[21:45:52] <Pesco> Do Suwako solo game
[21:46:04] <YoseiOnmyoji> I thought Real Men do Patchy Solo
[21:46:18] <Rikter> Chen Solo
[21:46:19] <Chaore> You get Suwako so la- Oh wait NG+
[21:46:21] <NeoSerela> >Patchy Solo
[21:46:23] <Pesco> Mystia can't solo Double Hibachi because she doesn't have Mag attacks :<
[21:46:24] <NeoSerela> olololol
[21:46:35] <Chaore> I love Patchy like hell
[21:46:38] <Rikter> Pesco: Grind more
[21:46:43] <Chaore> But that was honestly a joke, Yosei.
[21:46:43] <Pesco> Screw you
[21:46:52] <Chaore> Patchy needs and loves her meatshields.
[21:47:23] <YoseiOnmyoji> and I still say that I'd do Patchy, iykwim :V
[21:47:23] <NeoSerela> >Encounter Chen at lv120
[21:47:30] <NeoSerela> game over to flight of idaten
[21:48:05] <Rikter> Hmmm
[21:48:09] <Rikter> I wonder...
[21:48:22] <Rikter> Would she lose that fight at that level?
[21:48:24] <NeoSerela> no
[21:48:46] <NeoSerela> 1F bosses wouldn't be able to 0hko even patch
[21:49:01] <NeoSerela> and she could probably move first at that level
[21:49:02] <Chaore> Well ofcourse Yosei.
[21:49:09] <Chaore> That's unspoken. : V
[21:49:33] <Chaore> man
[21:49:39] <Chaore> does Labyrinth have like giant armor items?
[21:49:48] <Rikter> Patchy seems to be getting worse at 18F
[21:49:51] <Chaore> I suddenly want to pile them on patchy and make some kind of patchitank.
[21:50:03] <Chaore> This is you doing things wrong, Rikter.
[21:50:07] <Chaore> >: <
[21:50:10] <Rikter> 3 Machine God Lucifers :V
[21:50:15] <Rikter> She's to slow
[21:50:16] <YoseiOnmyoji> PATCHYTANK
[21:50:40] <Rikter> Mr. Man is almost Chen Speed
[21:50:51] <headcrabs> why is he so fast
[21:50:52] <Chaore> THIS IS YOU DOING THINGS WRONG RIKTER
[21:50:52] <Chaore> >: <
[21:50:58] <headcrabs> How can manliness make you faster :(
[21:51:15] <NeoSerela> Chaore:Stat boosts are all % based
[21:51:24] <NeoSerela> so Patchy's HP and DEF shall forever be rock bottom :P
[21:51:33] <Chaore> Still
[21:51:38] <Rikter> I'd rather have someone faster then Patchy for that fight
[21:51:44] <Chaore> The idea of Patchouli wearing twelve sets of armor
[21:51:52] <NeoSerela> And Patch really does get worse
[21:51:57] <Chaore> Come on, Don't tell me you don't find that hillarious
[21:52:00] <Rikter> And raising her speed isn't a good idea
[21:52:07] <Chaore> This is you doing things wrong. Blatantly. >: <
[21:52:10] <NeoSerela> her speed hurts her and her damage isn't that exciting anymore
[21:52:15] <Pesco> Sakuya solo run
[21:52:17] <Pesco> :V
[21:52:21] <NeoSerela> also, lol patch in tons of armor
[21:52:32] <NeoSerela> Pesco:Komachi solo
[21:52:38] <Rikter> Then again we have Nitori which makes everyones Damage look low.
[21:52:40] <NeoSerela> everything damages you
[21:52:43] <Chaore> Komachi is kind of doable.
[21:52:49] <Pesco> Komachi solo is a whole lot more possible than Sakuya though
[21:52:50] <Chaore> Just instakill everything.
[21:52:54] <NeoSerela> >POISON POWER
[21:52:54] <Rikter> Chen Solo
[21:52:58] <NeoSerela> YOU DIED
[21:53:00] <VicViper> I heard Komachi
[21:53:15] <VicViper> what about Tits?
[21:53:18] <VicViper> erm, Komachi
[21:53:26] <NeoSerela> Pesco:Except even overleveled Komachi will take high damge
[21:53:34] <NeoSerela> when Sakuya would be taking 0s
[21:53:36] <Magical_Moerin> What about Komachi's tits?
[21:53:37] <Rikter> Tenshi Solo
[21:53:37] <Pesco> Paizurri Komachi-tits Y/Y?
[21:53:40] <Magical_Moerin> >.>
[21:53:52] <Chaore> Oh neo.
[21:53:53] <NeoSerela> Rikter:Game over on first boss with Rasetsu Fist :V
[21:53:54] <Rikter> You need to raise attack
[21:53:58] <Chaore> : V
[21:54:00] <Rikter> And HP
[21:54:12] <NeoSerela> Chaore:wat
[21:54:14] <Pesco> Tenshi solo is sad
[21:54:19] <Chaore> You're so adorable.
[21:54:21] <Rikter> Every level up into HP :V
[21:54:22] * Chaore pets Neo on the head.
[21:54:29] <Pesco> Meiling at least has something to pierce high def
[21:54:31] * NeoSerela giggles
[21:54:41] <NeoSerela> Meiling solo is one of the better ones for sure
[21:54:48] <Pesco> How about Alice solo
[21:54:56] <Pesco> Because she has no friends :V
[21:54:58] <headcrabs> would alice solo be easy :V
[21:54:59] <NeoSerela> High HP/DEF, DEF piercing attack, CAN HEAL HERSELLFFFFF
[21:55:06] <Chaore> Alice Solo is provenly the most possible methinks.
[21:55:19] <NeoSerela> Alice solo can hit both DEF and MND which helps
[21:55:31] <NeoSerela> and her DEF isn't HORRIBLE
[21:55:35] <Pesco> Minoriko solo :V
[21:55:53] <NeoSerela> Minoriko can heal and DEF/MND buff and MND pierce
[21:55:59] <Chaore> POTATO SPAMMM
[21:56:00] <Rikter> Wriggle Solo
[21:56:01] <Pesco> But dies to everything
[21:56:02] <Chaore> No no wait
[21:56:05] <NeoSerela> all levelups in DEF and it might be doable
[21:56:06] <Chaore> RENKO SOLO.
[21:56:07] <Pesco> Wriggle can solo
[21:56:10] <NeoSerela> Pesco:wat
[21:56:13] <NeoSerela> Minoriko's MND is really high
[21:56:17] <NeoSerela> with MND levelups
[21:56:23] <NeoSerela> OH MY GOD RENKO SOLO
[21:56:31] <NeoSerela> LOL DEAL YOUR DAMAGE WITH ATTACK COMMAND
[21:56:58] <Rikter> Flandre Solo :V
[21:57:11] <NeoSerela> overleveled until you can kill the boss in a few hits :P
[21:57:30] <Chaore> Given Flandre's whole thing is she fucks her allys up... Prolly good chance, Rik.
[21:57:44] <Pesco> Flan solo will be oo easy
[21:57:44] <headcrabs> who needs allies when you have ~yourself~
[21:57:49] <Pesco> too
[21:57:59] <Pesco> You know what I need to do?
[21:58:04] <Rikter> Anyone could potentially solo it just takes to long to make some solo
[21:58:05] <NeoSerela> Renko solo would just be ridiculous
[21:58:10] <Pesco> Hack a patch to have 4 Flans on the team
[21:58:17] <NeoSerela> ahaha
[21:58:18] <Rikter> brb firiing up 2.04
[21:58:18] <Pesco> 4 OF A KIND XD
[21:58:32] <NeoSerela> Rikter:2.04 why
[21:58:41] <Rikter> Because I still have it
[21:59:05] <Rikter> And Cheat engine table I have is for that...
[21:59:21] <headcrabs> i should update my labyrinth
[21:59:24] <headcrabs> do saves copy over :V
[21:59:37] <Rikter> Yes they do
[22:00:52] <NeoSerela> that's not what you're playing with though, right
[22:00:52] <NeoSerela> normally, I mean
[22:00:59] <NeoSerela> mhmm
[22:01:01] <Rikter> No
[22:01:07] <Rikter> I only use it for lulz
[22:01:15] <Rikter> Like negative levels
[22:01:48] <NeoSerela> heal things so hard they die
[22:01:51] <NeoSerela> Minoriko's true power
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FOUR OF A KIND
I WANT TO SEE THIS
/cruisecontrol
though they'll be screwing each other over every time they try to do something that isn't Starbow Break.
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I'm just going to throw out a list of ideas I've had here.
Things I want to try:
MND Patchy
DEF Remilia
ATK Meiling (Ha ha, old chap!)
ATK Komachi
DEF Wriggle
DEF Yuugi (pump those affinities!)
SPD Chen (yes really)
Yes, I am crazy.
I use mnd Patchy all the time, I actually prefer it over mag patchy (which I'm doing this game). Her survivability is much much better, and her damage isn't actually not much worse. I think it's because of Silent Selene's mnd/4 part of the formula, it makes the lowered mag/tarMnd ratio less of an issue, so lowering mag wont gimp as much as you would expect. Yuugi's KO3S would be in the smae boat.
Def Remilia is kind of sort of what I also do too normally (again, but not in my current playthru). Though I actually go more like 2/3 def 1/3 mnd. Her damage does IMO doesn't take a huge hit. It makes Remi able to stick around for really long periods of time without panicking much at all, just keep that buff up. IT's almost like having a 2nd tenshi that can dps. She wont take 0s from absolutely everything, but she will take really small hits, and her higher hp allows them to be a near non-issue.
atk meiling... I rekon that wont be terribly useful, Healer will likely stay too weak to keep other people tanking alive, and she'll probably need to colorful rain too often to really act as a healer for anybody else if she's in the front still. And as a nuker, I still think she'd be "meh" at best.
People are already talking about atk Komachi, her spirit nuke will indeed be powerful, and s he wont be as squishy as someone like flan or suwako.
I thought people go def for wriggle already... wtf else would you do? >=P.
Spd chen would be so awsome early game, and post game probably pretty bad. This is purely because the game doesn't progress in time in an "analog" manner, but digitally "chunks" each tick. Late post game, your bars are going to fill at like 10% per tick. And since chen's attacks have really low delay, most of your extra speed speed is going to be totally wasted.. It'd be like increasing the attackpower for a specific enemy t hat can kill that enemy in one hit anyway.
Of course newly reaching each threshold of 3,2, and (maybe) 1 tick flights would be pretty cool, it would be kind of a shame though to spend it on anything but attack since she is perfectly capable of "doubling up" all her atk bonuses with her self buff anyway, so basically you'll see much less returns in any other stat, not only because they are less important, but because they don't get buffed.
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I thought people go def for wriggle already... wtf else would you do? >=P.
Build her atk and use her third spell for sweeping trash. :V
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Okay, her health growth is actually a lot higher than I thought it was, she probably could take a hit.
I'm still skeptical about her survivability though.
I'm very sure Komachi has the BEST HP growth in the game.
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I'm very sure Komachi has the BEST HP growth in the game.
She also has the some of the worst DEF and MND growths. She won't go down in one hit, but she can't take many without getting healed or switched out.
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She also has the some of the worst DEF and MND growths. She won't go down in one hit, but she can't take many without getting healed or switched out.
I'm just happy that Komachi's titanic HP is enough to get her physical durability away from Patchy-tier, and her magical durability away from Yuugi-tier.
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4 of a Kind = DO WANT!
Also, when did that huge convo happen Pesco? I want in on these things :]
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4 of a Kind = DO WANT!
Also, when did that huge convo happen Pesco? I want in on these things :]
a lot of Touhou Labyrinth discussion between Rikter, Pesco, NeoSerela and myself take place in IRC. We may or may not be all on at the same time, I was most likely asleep when that conversation happened for instance
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Half of the stuff from me is stupid comments and oh no I have been killed by *insert boss name or other name here* and Reimu hit level x.
Also Mr. Man is still annoying
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a lot of Touhou Labyrinth discussion between Rikter, Pesco, NeoSerela and myself take place in IRC. We may or may not be all on at the same time, I was most likely asleep when that conversation happened for instance
I likely sound like an idiot here, but what's IRC? I've heard the term before, but never knew what it was...
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I likely sound like an idiot here, but what's IRC? I've heard the term before, but never knew what it was...
It's like CPMC, only EVEN DUMBER!!! Ok I'm trolling >=P
Seriously, it's like a live chatroom thing, with text instead of voices I mean. I think most of this community originated as IRC users, but I'm not sure about that.
Here's some irc info
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16.0.html
I've been on the channel linked on that several times, and I see people, but nobody says shit there. People only seem to talk in the meido channel, which wasn't easy to find. I'm not really sure why it's not advertised or whatever.
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I likely sound like an idiot here, but what's IRC? I've heard the term before, but never knew what it was...
Internet Relay Chat. Or something like that. Basically, a chat room.
Outside of that, what Ghaleon said.
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Beat up Great Stamp (with the help of backup healing from Sanae and some nature resistance gear, Meiling and Remilia had no trouble staying alive to switch in nukers), finished up the exploration of 16F, and discovered that my party still isn't strong enough to take on either Flandre or Yukari. I guess this means that it's finally time for my first (unless you count two levels for Youmu) grinding session of this playthrough... Oh well. I still need a whole lot of BP for recruiting Kaguya, so this seems as good a time as any to rack up some.
EDIT: Having finally defeated Flandre after many times of getting wiped by Laevatein, I went straight on to Yukari , and won on my first try without a single casualty. Reimu level 80, no Tenshi or Suwako used (or Marisa, since I completely forgot about her after Concentrating :V). I don't get why the wiki strategy doesn't mention Reisen and her Discarder; using it to keep all of Yukari's stats close to -50% throughout the entire battle made it almost ridiculously trivial. And two Spear the Gungnirs plus one unbuffed Linear Gun was enough to take down the last form just after Barrier Release.
Still no Kaguya though...
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The wiki strategy doesn't suggest Reisen? That's messed up. Reisen and then either Cirno or Suika should be VIP in that fight, along with a recommendation of Wriggle or Suwako, with Kaguya more then doubling Suwako's effectiveness.
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My strategy for that fight:
Suika: Black Hole at the beginning for speed debuff
Youmu: Flashing Cherry Blossoms
Suwako: Croaking Frog
Kaguya: Cowrie Shell
Sanae: Occasional buff
Everyone else: lol
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Suika: Black Hole at the beginning for speed debuff
This is inefficient, Cirno can do it faster.
Also most people seem to lock her down with Komachi instead.
Also, chances are whenever that was written, everyone was still under the impression Reisen was a useless rabbit only good for her sex appeal.
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Cirno has a higher SPD but Suika can actually, y'know, do stuff other then SPD debuff. And she has a NTR attack, although it's not her nuke, but with her self-buff it shouldn't be too bad against Yukari.
Komachi is a worse alternative to using Reisen, but it works. She'll run out of SP a lot faster though,. and can't buff her SPD for after Djinn Storms, which really helps Reisen a lot in this fight.
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Yeah, Reisen definitely needs more respect. She absolutely destroyed 16F boss for Team Unappreciated (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NzfAsBj6bo). The great thing about Discarder is that it lowers offensive as well as defensive and speed stats, unlike Komachi's spell. A boss's nukes aren't so threatening if they're kept at -40% MAG, you know.
And contrary to what some believe, debuffs still remain reasonably viable for many battles even after 16F. Some are under this notion that debuffs are worthless after 18F (who is infamously immune to all status and debuff effects), when in fact there are plenty of bosses that are vulnerable to them, some dreadfully so.
Cosmic - Lacks all resistance to debuffs.
Aria-singing Torustory - Very easy to destroy is MAG stat and render its attacks pathetically weak, just one of the reasons why it's considered the weakest of the final boss's summons.
Beast of Centuarea - Remarkably low debuff resistance, especially for a Bloodstained Seal boss.
Bloody Papa - Even lower debuff resistance than the Beast of Centaurea. Don't expect the MND debuff to help your magic hurt him, though, but the DEF, SPD, and especially MAG debuffs could mean life or death here.
Agastobruama - For a Plus Disk boss, he's got pathetic resistance to debuffs. It seems almost every boss that gets Strengthen Jutsu is also cripplingly weak to debuffs.
Kedamagrammaton - Its debuff resistance drops to 0 while its charging up for its multi-turn Rankain attack. Spiking its MAG with Renko just before it goes off will severely weaken Rankain's power, not to mention bringing its massive 320,000 DEF/MND down to more reasonable levels.
In fact, the only bosses that are immune to debuffs after 18F are Rainbow Phoenix (who even remembers this one?), Shikieiki, Utsuho, and that floor 1 Bloodstained Seal boss with the really long name. Every other boss ranges from average boss debuff resistance (Yuka, most Plus Disk sigil guardians) to high but still doable (Hibachi, Serpent of Chaos, even the **WINNER**).
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The great thing about Discarder is that it lowers offensive as well as defensive and speed stats, unlike Komachi's spell.
Wait, I thought Komachi's had a chance for debuffs on all stats, plus PSN and PAR?
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Wait, I thought Komachi's had a chance for debuffs on all stats, plus PSN and PAR?
Nope. Narrow Confines doesn't touch ATK or MAG. And honestly, I think hitting those stats would be more useful than DEF or MND, except in rare instances (like Tenshi).
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Nope. Narrow Confines doesn't touch ATK or MAG
Seriously?
I just lost a lot of interest in using Komachi more this playthrough.
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Huh, now that I think about it, Komachi's debuff doesn't do that. I remember using Alice's Seeker Dolls to debuff Yukari's MAG on my first run, over half a year ago, actually ;P Komachi is really better much used as an attacker then a tanker+supporter, IMO.
Yeah, Alice's (for a while) unique ability to debuff ATK/MAG is really useful. Great Stamp is a wonderful example of this. (Reisen doesn't work because the SPD debuff will cause Huge Earthquake spam, although Mokou I suppose would work) And I suppose that's an upper for Maribel too, especially if you're spamming her lower delay single target move.
Just like Maribel reminds me of Reisen, Mokou does remind me of Alice. Atk/Mag debuff, nice FIR attack, good DEF on a mag user... Mokou has better HP while Alice has much better MND, though. And Mokou's nuke is multitarget while Alice's is single and has the atk-debuff. IMO having the higher MND is better because you'll usually have Mokou in the back anyway. And then Alice is more often useful for random clearing with the ability to target DEF or MND along with non-elementals. Both of them kinda fall behind in damage though... in this run, I'll probably replace Alice with Yuka when I get her. Her FIR nuke and MND will be great for the fight.
Almost finished with 19F... 19F is a breath of fresh air after all these other floors; fairly easy randoms, no gimmick, just smooth sailing and the excitement of the final floor ahead.
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I agree with the Mokou-Alice comparison. Elsewhere yesterday I made that exact same observation, as they're both mages with above-average survivability, good versatility against trash, minor debuffs, and reliance on Fire as their best nuke. Kanako's also kind fo similar, if you think about it.
Yeah, Alice's (for a while) unique ability to debuff ATK/MAG is really useful. Great Stamp is a wonderful example of this. (Reisen doesn't work because the SPD debuff will cause Huge Earthquake spam, although Mokou I suppose would work)
*cough* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20EFfMD6Gww)
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In fact, the only bosses that are immune to debuffs after 18F are Rainbow Phoenix (who even remembers this one?), Shikieiki, Utsuho, and that floor 1 Bloodstained Seal boss with the really long name. Every other boss ranges from average boss debuff resistance (Yuka, most Plus Disk sigil guardians) to high but still doable (Hibachi, Serpent of Chaos, even the **WINNER**).
Anything with a dbf resist over 15 is too high for me to think worth bothering for IMO. I personally have little to no luck with hoping for sometimes-based attacks. For example, Yuyuko's 100% death spell works MAYBE 1/4 of the time on enemies with just 8-12 resist for me. so eff it >=P
Don't even get me started on using Tenshi's sword of rapture on a boss that buffs every stat like 16f or 20F. Seems like the only thing it would ever succeed at would be 16f's speed. Admittably that made it worthwhile, but every other boss would avoid it completely every damn time.
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As long as there's a chance that it could hit, it's worth trying if the damage doesn't slow you down.
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-50% Speed is still incredible even well into the Plus Disk. Just think of how many fewer turns the boss gets because of that, especially bosses that resist paralysis much better (which would be...every single Plus Disk boss except the Flame Tyrant). Many of Team Unappreciated's boss fights start with Renko spamming Galaxy Stop until the SPD debuff lands. Makes a huge difference, I assure you; I defeated Baal Avatar 14 times for that stupid Gurthang drop, and noted how different the fight became depending on whether or not the first Galaxy Stop's effect landed.
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*cough* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20EFfMD6Gww)
With only ATK debuffs and no equipment changing (e.g. extra NTR resist), and no switching people out for empty spots, it's still not hard.
Although now I realize that the SPD debuff makes it so damn slow that switching out all but ones who'll live is very easy. So either way works.
About spamming Galaxy Stop... I remember fighting Agaustrobauma and going "well I might as well try Galaxy Stop once..." and PAR LANDED. So I brought in all my glass cannons (lol second playthrough team) and nuked it to death before Renko's insane PAR wears off ahaha
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You guys talk about how wonderful these effects are when they work...But my point is they effing dont for me >=P. And when they do, it's so damn late in the fight that the 10ish turns wasted trying to land a good debuff already outweigh the benefits, assuming the boss is even alive. Renko of course is a special case. Even then, I find I can just as easily live without her debuffs as with since their use is really limited when they don't work most of the time.
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Well then, maybe you need to sacrifice more cherished possessions to the Random Number Generator.
In Reisen's case, it's nice that the debuff effects come with her most damaging spell anyway. Doing solid DPS while letting those debuffs drop where they may, so to speak. Whereas characters who do nothing but debuff, like Renko and Cirno, I usually will only use during the beginning of the fight. In fact, that's how most of my fights go now: start with Renko to land Galaxy Stop, then switch to Reisen and keep her in full-time to reapply the debuffs a little bit at a time while still doing damage.
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then switch to Renko and keep her in full-time to reapply the debuffs a little bit at a time while still doing damage.
typo
And yeah, I think that's how I'll use Maribel if I replace Wriggle with her. When the situation is right, of course. Too bad she doesn't hit SPD, though...
Hit 20F, so I'll probably do the final boss today... it doesn't take long once you get there :D
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Thank you, corrected.
Maribel is not bad if you want both debuffs and damage, but the reason why I prefer Reisen over her isn't because Reisen hits SPD, but because Reisen rebuffs herself a lot more easily. Whenever Reisen's buffs drop below 60%, I can easily bring them back up with Grand Patriot's Elixir in almost no time at all. I mean, it's only 1% more delay than Flight of Idaten! And she's got speed buffs anyway. Maribel's buff costs her entire active bar, and since it gives +75% at a time, using it before she hits 25% buffs wastes some of the buffs, but that allows her to drop to a lower level of buffs in the meantime.
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Finally went through overhauling pages 2-5 of the Character list.
I made a few observations over on the Poolswimmer thread, but three in particular caught my eye:
Ran's Princess Tenko has a significantly higher multiplier than its SPI equivalent, although it's also got a higher MND factor but it's actually pretty significant (Just under the 600% mark I think)
Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana. It's 900% power (Megawatt, for comparison, is 1000%), but the gauge only loses 60%, as opposed to the 90%+ usually lost from other attacks. I'm fairly certain this is the SPI nuke of the game.
Also spoilering the whole rest of this for shits and giggles and concealing boss identities.
Yukari's Shikigami + spellcard formula was wrong.
It actually works like this:
(1.5 + a) x (((1.5 + b) * MAG) - (.5 * MND))
Wherein
If Ran is not in the party, a = 0
If Ran is in reserve, a = 0.5
If Ran is active, a = 1
If Chen is not in the party, b = 0
If Chen is in reserve, b = 0.5
If Chen is active, b = 1
If Chen and Ran are active, a = 1.5 and b = 1.5
Yeah, this is pretty complex and ridiculous. It's worth noting that the last condition is a huge jump from just 'one is active and the other's in reserve'. The jump is a difference between 500% MAG - 100% T.MND (when Chen is active and Ran is in reserve) and 900% MAG - 125% T.MND (when both are active).
And yes, that means it hits the God Tier damage multipliers in the right conditions. And for the record; It's non-elemental and only has 50% delay.
So yeah.
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SEE
THIS is why I said the only reason why you ever want to use Yukari for damage dealing is for Shikigami+. Did I know this? That's a secret, but nobody listened to me yet again :X
Re: Reisen
The fact of the matter is, for how solid Reisen's movepool is, her stats really... aren't that good.
The moral of the story here is TWINK HARDER
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SEE
THIS is why I said the only reason why you ever want to use Yukari for damage dealing is for Shikigami+. Did I know this? That's a secret, but nobody listened to me yet again :X
Uh, no. I knew that long ago, and changed my stance a long time ago to "Jesus christ her attack sucks unless you can align for Shikigami +'s conditions to work optimally". And I think that's what most other people did, and very few people have all three characters in their party at once it seems.
I just didn't realise how stupidly powerful it is until I actually really paid attention to it.
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All right, all right, I'll get get started on that next team with MAG and ATK-based characters that normally don't get it...
When I have time.
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Uh, no. I knew that long ago, and changed my stance a long time ago to "Jesus christ her attack sucks unless you can align for Shikigami +'s conditions to work optimally".
:/
The problem is less getting the condition to work optimally and rather why exactly would you have all three of them active at once. You see, that sort of condition makes the attack insanely powerful yeah but there's absolutely no actual incentive other than Shikigami+ dealing sick damage to have ALL three of them active. At once. At least when the damage from Shikigami+ matters most! :/
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:/
The problem is less getting the condition to work optimally and rather why exactly would you have all three of them active at once. You see, that sort of condition makes the attack insanely powerful yeah but there's absolutely no actual incentive other than Shikigami+ dealing sick damage to have ALL three of them active. At once. At least when the damage from Shikigami+ matters most! :/
Honestly, a team built around using it could do very well.
Chen herself doesn't need to stay in long or benefit from Spiriting Away, and Ran can hold her own and doesn't really need Spiriting Away either, letting Yukari focus on using that. Plus Yukari's a half-decent tank herself.
I could see it working.
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Creating a team that's built around a particular strategy or taking advantage of a certain exploit is completely different from trying to insert the use of that certain strategy in a regular team, though.
And I am talking about the latter here.
That said, if I actually bothered to start playing Touhou Labyrinth again, I could probably make it work myself, but.
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Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana etc
Yukari's Shikigami + spellcard formula was wrong.
It actually works like this:
Unfortunately, Yuyuko's MAG due to her high leveling rate, plus her low speed, means it isn't terribly exciting. It's still a good nuke of course, but it's not going to be like HOLY SHIT DAMAGE as the formula might suggest. And unfortunately, several high bosses like Shikieiki and Serpent of Chaos (;_;) have 500 SPI affinity. She's great in Plus Disk other then that, though; her HP and MND are quite nice.
And the formula we had for Yukari's Shikigami spellcard is the same as what you had, just written out differently ;P Yukari's MAG is similarly weakened by her high leveling rate, plus you've gotta have Ran and Chen out for it to be good, AND her best way to deal damage is with Spiriting Away abuse anyway... (see Parallaxal's video where he kills Bloody Papa at a fairly low level before it attacks that way)
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Unfortunately, Yuyuko's MAG due to her high leveling rate, plus her low speed, means it isn't terribly exciting. It's still a good nuke of course, but it's not going to be like HOLY SHIT DAMAGE as the formula might suggest. And unfortunately, several high bosses like Shikieiki and Serpent of Chaos (;_;) have 500 SPI affinity. She's great in Plus Disk other then that, though; her HP and MND are quite nice.
Honestly, it'd be pretty stupid if Yuyuko was a top-tier DPSer with her defensive stats. Though with the low delay, I guess she's still pretty high up there.
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And the formula we had for Yukari's Shikigami spellcard is the same as what you had, just written out differently ;P
Not quite. Previously the way the formula was understood was that the individual multiplier would jump straight up to 3 with the matching character out; in truth, it only goes up to 2.5. Which makes it a little more complex.
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Not quite. Previously the way the formula was understood was that the individual multiplier would jump straight up to 3 with the matching character out; in truth, it only goes up to 2.5. Which makes it a little more complex.
What? Really? I could have sworn it wasn't written that way, because I've known the formula worked the way you wrote for... well, the whole time I've known Yukari's formulas :V
EDIT:Haha, I was right. I looked up old histories of the wiki page, and it was right from the beginning. Direct quote of the original wording is...
(Normal: 1.5, Ran in back row: 2, Ran in front row: 2.5, Chen and Ran in front row: 3)
And then a similar thing for the multiplier based off Chen.
Also, after looking at the old versions of the page, I remember how much DRASTICALLY better the pages looked before those images were added in and squished the pages together. Formulas actually fit on one line oh my god. Could someone either move or delete the images ;_; And I think I'm starting to like the newer formula style that's on page one. I've found myself starting to multiply the numbers to see how they are and I felt dirty ):
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Just a head's up: I made two corrections to Yukari's data on the character wiki.
First is that her second spell hits DEF, not MND.
Second is that Buddha's Stone Bowl still works on her after Spiriting Away. However, Spiriting Away raises Kaguya's bar to 12,000 rather than 10,000 like every other character, so she'll always act next. If she casts Buddha's Stone Bowl on Yukari, that sets her bar to 11,000, which means she gets to go again before the other two characters have even used their extra turns. That's why the infinite turns combo doesn't work...unless you want to buff Yukari. If you've got a few thousand SP to spare, you can keep casting Spiriting Away and Buddha's Stone Bowl over and over to buff Yukari to 100% in all stats. Not sure why you'd want to do that, though. Maybe if your remaining 2 members where Ran and Chen, I guess?
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First is that her second spell hits DEF, not MND.
I checked the histories since it was on DEF as far as I could remember, looks like it was just messed up during the VERY recent (like within an hour) change to the new formula layout.
I really wish that spell didn't have a terrible formula, WND attacks are useful for a good amount of randoms... and it's a row attack to boot. With a horrible formula. On a character with non-stellar MAG. Ehh, whatever... at least the funner version on Maribel is good. Except it's a row so boo to randoms, and many plus disk bosses resist wind, even Serpent of Chaos (Which ALSO resists SPI, those are the two elements it always has 500 resist for except inbetween it's turns where you'll never get to act, so poor Maribel is stuck with her composite for attacking! Ahh...)
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Just a head's up: I made two corrections to Yukari's data on the character wiki.
First is that her second spell hits DEF, not MND.
Second is that Buddha's Stone Bowl still works on her after Spiriting Away. However, Spiriting Away raises Kaguya's bar to 12,000 rather than 10,000 like every other character, so she'll always act next. If she casts Buddha's Stone Bowl on Yukari, that sets her bar to 11,000, which means she gets to go again before the other two characters have even used their extra turns. That's why the infinite turns combo doesn't work...unless you want to buff Yukari. If you've got a few thousand SP to spare, you can keep casting Spiriting Away and Buddha's Stone Bowl over and over to buff Yukari to 100% in all stats. Not sure why you'd want to do that, though. Maybe if your remaining 2 members where Ran and Chen, I guess?
Ah, I see!
...That's acutally kind of ingenious as a way to get around it. Thanks for clearing those up. Especially the former; I must have missed the fact that it was DEF instead of MND when reformatting things.
EDIT: Also, I use row spells on trash. It's obviously not that great if there's 3 or more, but if it's only two, the 20% reduction on one generally is made up for by the fact that Row spells tend to do more than all-target spells from the same characters (Compare Shining Stars of Traumerei and Start of Heavenly Demise, for example)
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Yeah, Row spells tend to do more, but Yukari's does terrible damage even BEFORE reduction ;P
And Mari's damage is kinda ehh before she buffs herself up, so for randoms her attacks are mostly only good on stuff weak to the element; so when that stuff weak to WND is over on the side that won't take much damage, it really sucks... then her composite is low damage on many things due to either MYS or one high defensive stat, and her SPI ones have bad MND piercing... ;_;
She's a lot better for bosses then randoms, despite being a damage character :\
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Is it just me, or is 14F the wall of difficulty where Labyrinth goes from "enjoyable yet difficult pace" to "lol have fun batshit". Obsidian Sorcs can go die in a fire.
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I have greater hatred for double Bronze Golem and double Manifested Knowledge on that floor.
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Do 14F by running from everything.
Re Shikigami+: I bet there's a true/false variable I could find in Cheat Engine for that :V
Addresses for switches on 10-12F and 13F have all been found. 16F and 23F also has switches iirc. Any other floors with stuff like that?
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I already said Yuyuko's nuke has the best formula in the game.. But upon trying it, yeah..It's not as good as you hope. Her mag just wasn't enough, and the sp cost stays far too obscene well into the plus disk. Her rec isn't steller either so after using it up switching out wont let her recover anytime soon.
I rekon the atk-based Komachi would be a better spirit nuker.
I don't think ANYBODY didn't already know that Yukari's dps wasn't garbage without a perfected Shikigami/ran combo, I dunno wtf hime is talking about...Problem is though that playing musical chairs with 3 different characters just for 1 top-tier nuker isn't really worth the effort when you can just use an ordinary nuker instead, even with Chen providing her own undoubtedly decent nukeage. Chen's just too squishy to have out for multiple attacks from Yukari, making you do triple the effort just for 1 nuke. I mean I'm sure you can get it to work, but it's just not natural, and it doesn't really exploit anything really.
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It's the best thing you've got if you're doing a Yukari / Ran / Reimu / Chen only team :D
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It's the best thing you've got if you're doing a Yukari / Ran / Reimu / Chen only team :D
I dunno. If you're limiting your party to that only, and you can keep chen alive without switching her out.. I'm thinking she could do some mean dps.
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It's the best thing you've got if you're doing a Yukari / Ran / Reimu / Chen only team :D
gl keeping chen alive for long
Reimu lv123... I can VERY NEARLY beat the final boss each time I try ;_; I suppose I'll level a few more times.
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Finished with the Winner.
Don't get any of the 30F's boss drop, though.
well, I guess it's time for another game.
killing Winner over and over again can be done if I'm bored. :V
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Restarting the game with NG+ using a new party at level 1 is probably more fun though.
So I tried 20f boss at Reimu 118... I could have beat it if I wasn't unlucky and had 3 chars deathed by hyperspace slash super early in the fight (despite their 20+ resist..gah). I also got Djinn stormed every SECOND BLOODY TURN FOR FREAKIN 20ISH TURNS near the end of the fight too, how ghey is that?
Tried again, and had a different kind of bad luck, where my whole party was getting multiple -50% debuffs from one spell after another despite 20-30 stat resist on most of my party..Infact most of my party has 20-30ish everything resist (though there are plenty of full immunes). Remi, despite having 32 par resist managed to get par'd 3 times. I don't know.
I think I can do this after like 10 attempts or so of having good luck but it's just not worth it. I rekon 125-130 is easy enough that I don't need good luck, but is still challenging enough to feel fun >=)..Having a party loaded with glass cannons probably isn't a great idea for such a long fight either. Beserk tends to 2shot most of my roster, despite nobody having poor mys resist minus Ran (who is only at 110), don't even ask how much the REAL attacks rape me for >=P.
Just like last time, My first and only 20f drop so far is armands...sigh, wtf does it have to be the most useless page 9+ item in the game? whyyy.
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Plus Disk character summaries for the wiki (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Labyrinth_of_Touhou:_Characters_6#Resummarization_Attempts)
Take a look at the last set of characters to be resummarized, and feel free to suggest any changes.
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Plus Disk character summaries for the wiki (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Labyrinth_of_Touhou:_Characters_6#Resummarization_Attempts)
Take a look at the last set of characters to be resummarized, and feel free to suggest any changes.
It all looks good to me, though a couple spellcard typos on Renko and Yuka's summaries are bugging me (Debilitate, Thundercloud Stickleback).
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Spelling corrections made, thank you.
Edit: Finally made it to 30F with Team Unappreciated, levels currently in the lower 300's. Time to commence mega-ultra level grinding mode.
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Hit 30F? Congrats! I greatly look forward to your Serpent of Chaos fight.
27F and M key wheeeeeeeee
...meanwhile, I'm doing the grind of gathering stars and levels before I start Plus Disk floors. Sigh.
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Holy cow, they made it to 30F! I am starting to like all those characters a lot more. I still don't want to use some of them, but I can see that any character can be used well.
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Spelling corrections made, thank you.
Edit: Finally made it to 30F with Team Unappreciated, levels currently in the lower 300's. Time to commence mega-ultra level grinding mode.
Good luck man
I know it's doable
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Holy cow, they made it to 30F! I am starting to like all those characters a lot more. I still don't want to use some of them, but I can see that any character can be used well.
I'm feeling extremely tempted to start using Reisen. Otherwise, the characters I'm interested in that are in Team Appreciated are already on my team. :V
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Thanks for the support. 27F grinding is starting to go more smoothly now that Rumia can OHKO Nightmare Cancers with Dark Side of the Moon without my having to buff her MAG beforehand.
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Touhou labyrinth needs to be modded dammit. With a party roster that large, equipment selection, stat mechanics, and enemy variety. Changing a few numbers would go a LONG way towards changing the feel of the game while keeping it fun.
Anyway, Garlyle I'm not sure because I don't know the old formula exactly, but it LOOKS like you punched in yuugi's ko in 3 steps as having def/2 instead of def/4. And I recall wiki used to say /4 (that was the one part I was sure of)
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The database says KOi3S has "DEF Influence: 40", does that mean [Def * 0.4]? Well, whatever that means, that's what the database says, and I'm under the impression that the database is the definitive goto for the nitty gritty details.
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...is it supposed to be possible to not get the PAR effect to activate on enemies with zero PAR resistance? Because this makes twice that has happened with the 18F Peta Grains; once with Narrow Confines of Avici and once with Diamond Blizzard.
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...is it supposed to be possible to not get the PAR effect to activate on enemies with zero PAR resistance? Because this makes twice that has happened with the 18F Peta Grains; once with Narrow Confines of Avici and once with Diamond Blizzard.
Um.
I don't remember the chance of paralysis on either of those two skills, but even if it's pretty high, and against zero PAR resistance, a chance is still a chance.
Guess you were unlucky.
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Um.
I don't remember the chance of paralysis on either of those two skills, but even if it's pretty high, and against zero PAR resistance, a chance is still a chance.
Guess you were unlucky.
...I could have sworn that PAR had a set 100-(3xPAR resistance)% chance of occurring, and the numbers associated with different attacks just the power of the PAR effect.
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Touhou labyrinth needs to be modded dammit. With a party roster that large, equipment selection, stat mechanics, and enemy variety. Changing a few numbers would go a LONG way towards changing the feel of the game while keeping it fun.
Anyway, Garlyle I'm not sure because I don't know the old formula exactly, but it LOOKS like you punched in yuugi's ko in 3 steps as having def/2 instead of def/4. And I recall wiki used to say /4 (that was the one part I was sure of)
Uh, no, I didn't.
The actual DEF influence is 40 (which would be x 0.4) and the damage multiplier is 200 (so that gets doubled, which is 0.8 ).
It's not ridiculously DEF-piercing. Not sure where people got that idea. It's on the lower-end of the defense-influence scale for standard attacks though.
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Yes, I've seen effects fail on enemies with 0 resistance as well, but it's extremely rare. I usually just don't mind.
The chance might be more like 99% - (3xRES) or something.
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Uh, no, I didn't.
The actual DEF influence is 40 (which would be x 0.4) and the damage multiplier is 200 (so that gets doubled, which is 0.8 ).
It's not ridiculously DEF-piercing. Not sure where people got that idea. It's on the lower-end of the defense-influence scale for standard attacks though.
That explains it since 0.4 is closer to .5 than .25.
I'm inclined to believe .4 is accurate too since I still see a much more noticeable drop in damage versus high def targets than I do with something like silent Selene versus high mnd targets
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Touhou labyrinth needs to be modded dammit. With a party roster that large, equipment selection, stat mechanics, and enemy variety. Changing a few numbers would go a LONG way towards changing the feel of the game while keeping it fun.
I'd do it, but I need to know and get hold of the tools for doing so.
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I feel rather stupid.
I really don't like the art style of the original game, and I'd like to install the alternate character images that I downloaded, but I can't find any help on how to do it. So...how do I install the alternate character art?
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Move the CharaGraph folder you downloaded into the Touhou Labyrinth folder
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Wow. I can't believe it was that easy. :ohdear:
Thanks.
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Missed recording Round 1 for this boss, so here's Round 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIIQjXOWIlI
That's actually the first time I've ever seen Final Danmaku - Light Wings Expansion.
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Have fun with BoC V2 :V
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Have fun with BoC V2 :V
Oh yeah, not looking forward to that one at all...
Incidentally, it turns out that Bloody Papa Ver.2 actually has lower debuff resistance than his Ver.1 form. Wow...this is going to be fun.
EDIT: Yes, it was fun.
Team Unappreciated vs. Bloody Papa Ver.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNiacoKY9wc
Once again, Renko makes this fight a snap. Watch Papa's Washing Machine do 0 damage to an unbuffed Iku who's 70 levels below the Wiki's recommended level. In fact, I didn't even need to heal during this battle.
Bloody Papa is probably the easiest of the Ver.2 Bloodstained Seal bosses if you're using Renko.
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I'd do it, but I need to know and get hold of the tools for doing so.
Me too. The translation patcher has seen no ways of doing so short of hex editing the exe file, which is pretty much what cheat engine does.. So yeah, doesn't look very modifiable >=(. WHYYYYYY!!!
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I replaced Minoriko's graphics with Shizuha, and suddenly I feel much happier about having her in my party. :V
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Me too. The translation patcher has seen no ways of doing so short of hex editing the exe file, which is pretty much what cheat engine does.. So yeah, doesn't look very modifiable >=(. WHYYYYYY!!!
Nah, Cheat Engine just modifies the active memory.
You'd need to find a way to decompile the exe in order to view the code used. I bet it's actually really simple after that step, but yeah.
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So, uh, is there a verdict on HP Komachi vs ATK Komachi yet?
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So, uh, is there a verdict on HP Komachi vs ATK Komachi yet?
I'm not the verdict, but I'd say ATK is better then HP with her.
Also, ATK-Komachi isn't just a good SPI-nuke, she's a flat out good nuke, and I think she is better then a lot of other "good nukes." She was comparing to ATK-Remi for a while, then actually started beating her out a bit. She ties with, or is similar to, ATK-Remi in DPS on bosses like SoC or ***WINNER***
, which for me was rather notable. When I fought SoC 1st time, Remi and Komachi were dealing 1.4~ Million per hit.
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I'd say hybrid.
Most of the time, you're going to be using Komachi more for Narrow Confines of Avici, it seems; and in those cases, HP, SP, affinities, and Speed let her stay out longer and apply Avici more. And those things help her survive and need less healing when she's out attacking, too.
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I'd say hybrid.
Most of the time, you're going to be using Komachi more for Narrow Confines of Avici, it seems; and in those cases, HP, SP, affinities, and Speed let her stay out longer and apply Avici more. And those things help her survive and need less healing when she's out attacking, too.
Or just put the levels in ATK and give crazy Skill Levels in HP and ATK, moreso HP :V I've been able to have her in Slot 1 versus ***WINNER***
and she did fine, never taking more damage then Reimu could heal.
Edit: Oh yeah, that's at Reimu Level 330 or so. SoYeah.jpg
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Nah, Cheat Engine just modifies the active memory.
You'd need to find a way to decompile the exe in order to view the code used. I bet it's actually really simple after that step, but yeah.
Yeah, I mean the best bet of finding the addresses for what you want to mod is by the cheat engine, not decompiling it and finding a nice and tidy set of variables to fool around with.
That being said, certain things that do not change in the game are extremely difficult to find in cheat program (like spell formulas, spell selections, item statistics, etc), and hence are probably impossible to mod using that method, this is assuming that it is the best/easiest method known to mod the game, currently there are no better known methods that I'm aware of.
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You know, the Plus Disk isn't as hard as I thought it'd be. Even with a party that's only at Reimu 180 I'm doing pretty well at 22F.
Speaking of which I nearly flipped shit until I realised this floor isn't as bad as I first feared.
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You know, the Plus Disk isn't as hard as I thought it'd be. Even with a party that's only at Reimu 180 I'm doing pretty well at 22F.
Speaking of which I nearly flipped shit until I realised this floor isn't as bad as I first feared.
The special disk doesn't directly make things harder, but the selling items thing goes a long way actually...
In addition, having a wiki helps alot too. I mean being able to see the spell formulas, character growth rates, etc, etc. Makes your party soooo much better than if you simply just experiment around with everyone, pick who you feel is good (at that moment), only to find out until far too late that they weren't exactly what you thought.
Baal guardian is also a horribly designed (in a cruel evil way) boss for after 18f/20f bosses. I mean those are totally long endurance patience-wins fights, and then baal guardian shows up, and it's not very obvious that it's a NUKE NUKE EVEN IF YOU LOSE HALF YOUR PARTY NUKE FASTER fight. Again, knowledge helps more than most people can anticipate.
My current playthru is *SOO* much easier than my first, even though it's not exactly my dream-party. Simply because knowledge is oh so much power, and selling items gives an obscene amount of skillpoints sometimes.
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Team Unappreciated vs. Hibachi-sama Ver.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED8h7IkBNsA
Only tricky part was switching characters out for Needle Parade. Had an easier time with this one than Version 1. Surprised Wriggle managed to survive Dual Funeral Washing Machine at this level.
Now I need to grind several dozen levels for Beast of Centaurea Ver.2...
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My current playthru is *SOO* much easier than my first, even though it's not exactly my dream-party. Simply because knowledge is oh so much power, and selling items gives an obscene amount of skillpoints sometimes.
Yeah, when I played, the English information was very scarce and all I knew was from the Japanese wiki. It's a lot easier nowadays now that you have so much information.
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Wriggle contributed at least 1.3 million damage, by the way.
This is without considering the PSN, right...? Or is PSN really THAT terrible at this point? Considering Nitori does more then this in one hit.
I mean, now that I know firsthand her PSN is great maingame, I want to see how it scales in Plus Disk. And with speed increasing and such, I don't exactly have a lot of hope for it :V
Originally, I considered Maribel for just staying in and spamming Chaotic Quadruple Barrier quickly for 400-500k each while trying to debuff it, but ended up not doing that on this particular run for some reason
Isn't it sad, Maeriberi? ;_;
Raymoo lv160 on my end. Dual Hibachi, I'm comin to get ya...
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This is without considering the PSN, right...? Or is PSN really THAT terrible at this point? Considering Nitori does more then this in one hit.
No, I'm afraid that is with PSN. But it's still more damage than most of the party, actually. You're correct that with fights lasting fewer tics, it doesn't have as much time to work. However, comparing her to Nitori really is unfair. "Oh, Wriggle did less damage than the best damage dealer in the entire game. How disappointing for a tank-ish character than can survive Dual Funeral Washing Machine!"
The problem with Wriggle's PSN is that it can't be buffed, and my party relies heavily on buffs (Nitori only does ~1 million without buffs). The damage dealt by Wriggle with each attack is comparable to other non-buffed attackers; about 80% as strong as an unbuffed Fujiyama Volcano, I'd estimate. If I weren't using Iku, Wriggle's damage would be more impressive.
The biggest issue that Team Unappreciated has (aside from lack of group defensive buffs) is that I selected all the character simply because of their lack of use, not because they actually synergize well with each other. Wriggle works best on a team that can play defensively while passing out lots of buffs; for example, some people (like in Banana's videos) spend many of their early turns first casting group buffs with Ran. Others focus on stalling and survival with Reimu. In these parties, Wriggle is good for her survivability while still doing damage. Since I lack these characters, my only option is to hit full-force with my best attacker (Nitori) as much as possible, while letting less powerful but more durable attackers like Mokou in during boss attacks.
There are other ways that my party is non-synergistic. Reisen and Maribel are actually both very similar characters; they can both self-buff and spam mass debuff spells rapidly. Maribel does it faster (CQB has significantly lower delay, and still debuffs by the same amount), but doesn't hit the enemy's speed. But with both on my team, I gave Reisen the debuffing job while turning Maribel into a switch-in-and-out nuker. And let's face it, anyone (except maybe Shikieiki) pales in comparison to Nitori in that role.
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Oh, Wriggle did less damage than the best damage dealer in the entire game
Yeah, but my big point is, Wriggle did less damage over the entire fight then Nitori did in a single hit :P Your other damage dealers only take 2 or 3 attacks to do the same, and since this is a pretty long fight, that's really bad! Poor Wriggle just doesn't keep up past main game.
And yeah, I kinda wish they hadn't buffed Nitori so massively. She's just plain overpowered now. Now she's with Reimu on the list of "If you aren't using her you're doing it wrong", and that's kind of disappointing in a game like this, especially considering it's for pure damage and not support. She's a little more balanced when you're fighting something with weaknesses, since the super-effective attacks will outdamage her, but on fights with no weaknesses she just far outdoes every other character. Shiki/Kaguya (Yes, Kaguya's nuke is about as good as Shiki's!) don't come near her output, and I haven't tested Yuyuko, but.
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Your other damage dealers only take 2 or 3 attacks to do the same, and since this is a pretty long fight, that's really bad! Poor Wriggle just doesn't keep up past main game.
My other damage dealers only get to attack like 3 times anyway. Given how many times Wriggle attacked, I estimate each attack does a total of about 325k damage. Not amazing, sure, but compare that to other tank-ish characters. Keine only does 100-150k per attack, and she has longer delays anyway.
Also, I'd like to mention that Nitori isn't nearly as good without a dedicated buffer like Iku around. That's why I currently prefer Iku over Ran: if you're going to rely on a single in-and-out character to do most of your damage, Thundercloud Stickleback is several times better than any other offensive buff. The most important thing is being able to refresh her offensive buffs as many times as you want with little cost. Since Nitori is more fragile than many other nukers, you need something strong with low delay to buff her as she's switching in and out. I'm willing to bet that Iku's presence accounts for about an 80% increase in Nitori's damage output.
But yeah, Megawatt Linear Gun is grossly overpowered.
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Ran did just fine for me when my offense was 90% long delay heavy hitters.
Depends on how many you have I guess.
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Keine only does 100-150k per attack, and she has longer delays anyway.
Well Keine is for buffing ATK/MAG, that's like talking about Iku or Reimu's damage :P
Wriggle does have nice tanking power, but neither her damage (in Plus) nor her tanking compares to characters like, say, Remi or 18F. Yeah, they have to stay out for their damage to be done, but in their single hit they'll achieve more damage then Wriggle's single hits. Yeah, if Wriggle deals 325k~ in one hit, well that's not too bad, but thing is that damage isn't really increased a lot if you use the attack again quickly either. This also hurts if you want to use her for tanking, since her damage will be nearly the same as if she was switched out a lot, so other characters are again MUCH better suited to the task.
I do think Wriggle is a wonderful character to use up through Yukari, and maybe up to the final boss. Into Plus Disk though, she doesn't offer anything several other characters can't do better.
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Yeah, I mean the best bet of finding the addresses for what you want to mod is by the cheat engine, not decompiling it and finding a nice and tidy set of variables to fool around with.
That being said, certain things that do not change in the game are extremely difficult to find in cheat program (like spell formulas, spell selections, item statistics, etc), and hence are probably impossible to mod using that method, this is assuming that it is the best/easiest method known to mod the game, currently there are no better known methods that I'm aware of.
On top of those problems, there are regions of data that are totally unreadable (from what I can tell, anyway) if the hex editor you're using isn't attached to the active process.
Let's say you're trying to increase an enemy's EXP payout. Unless you want to manually adjust it for each battle, you'd have to go find the variable in the read-only memory that corresponds to that value. In Cheat Engine, it's fairly easy to find it, but if you go view that same memory region in a standard hex editor, there'll be nothing there but a wall of CC. I was testing this with Yuyuko's boss fight; I found the address that controls the EXP given on defeat, then opened another hex editor and checked that same address. Nothing.
I can only assume that means that those values are either a) revealed at runtime, or b) write-protected.
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The easiest point to start with imo is the base stats of a character. Things like their growth rates and upgrade ratings. Those values are hardcoded into the exe. While you play, the values can be adjusted, but once you exit and restart the game, the values are reset.
In a fight, the game loads enemy data into slots for the encounter. These will obviously change for different enemies that come to occupy the slot in battle. I found addresses for debuffing the enemy with and it confirmed that I only found the slot template addresses, not the inherent data of the specific enemy. The debuff address could be saved to reliably be applied each fight.
There's also another difficulty in there. Characters who have moves that can poison do not appear to have fixed addresses in memory. I remember Wriggle, Yuugi and Komachi always having different adresses each time I needed to adjust something of theirs. Mystia also has a poison move, but since 2.06 her address is pretty constant.
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Still grinding in preparation for the Beast of Centaurea Ver.2 battle. During a practice run (I'm still about 30 levels below where I'd like to be), I made a few observations:
1. It's possible to win this fight very easily at my level with a particular strategy if I have the patience. Beast of Centuarea's normal form only has 24 PAR resistance, and is extremely slow. It's possible to have Suwako and Renko keep it PAR-locked for the entire fight with their extremely powerful PAR effects. If you can defeat the Beast of Centaurea's normal form before it uses Hahahaha! What's wrong?, then you'll never have to face the super-powerful Breakaway form. Unfortunately, this means doing an extra 100 million damage. However, since it's possible to PAR-lock the boss with some luck, I believe it's doable, if extremely tedious.
2. The normal form is susceptible to debuffs, but the Breakaway form is immune to everything. However, the Breakaway form still technically counts as an extension of the first form. That means it keeps any debuffs! Normally, Hahahaha! What's wrong? raises all its stats by 50%, which lets it murder you quickly with its fast attacks. However, by keeping the Beast of Centaurea at max debuffs before it transforms, you can nullify most of its buffs. Even better, it doesn't buff its speed when it transforms, so it'll still be suffering from -40% SPD when the Breakaway form is released, giving you a lot more time to prepare for its first wave. Sure, its spam attacks will quickly run down the debuffs, but it'll still make surviving its initial attacks much easier.
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Just got into this game a week ago thanks to Parallaxal's Let's Play on GitP, and was wondering if I could get some constructive criticism on my current party, as the random encounters have been giving me some problems (only Patchy/Youmu consistently beating the defenses of the walls on 15f hurts)
My Party:
Reimu 72
Tenshi 67
Meiling 71
Youmu 68
Alice 68
Sanae 69
Kaguya 63
Patchy 64
Marisa 67
Aya 68
Iku 68
Ran 66
Just finished Floor 15 except for the Recruitable boss (Great Stamp took several tries, until I got an easy sequence of attacks plus proper resists + Alice debuff, no deaths there). Any and all comments wanted. Currently the main thrust of my boss strats is to get my party generally boosted some with Ran
+ Reimu, bring in Iku to help buff Youmu/Patchy/etc., and switch in and out like crazy to minimize the exposure characters like Sanae
get.
Thanks ahead of time :V
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100m? Didn't you mean 10m?
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100m? Didn't you mean 10m?
Nope, I mean 100 million HP. You normally need to do 16,666,666 damage to force Beast of Centaurea to transform, but it actually has 116,666,666 HP. It simply uses Hahahaha! What's Wrong?! when it drops below 100 million HP.
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Para, based on your post, you said "Unfortunately, this means doing an extra 100 million damage" if you PAR-lock before Hahaha! What's wrong? Does it's remaining HP drop after it goes into Breakaway? Or do it's defensive stats drop notably?
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Para, based on your post, you said "Unfortunately, this means doing an extra 100 million damage" if you PAR-lock before Hahaha! What's wrong? Does it's remaining HP drop after it goes into Breakaway? Or do it's defensive stats drop notably?
It works just like the final boss, Yuka, or 18F's elemental forms. Yuka is a very good comparison, as she also has 115 million HP, but uses Focus when below 100 million, which then sets her HP to 2.5 million. Similarly, Beast of Centaurea Ver.2 simply sheds the former form for the Breakaway form, and sets its HP to 20 million when it does.
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Just got into this game a week ago thanks to Parallaxal's Let's Play on GitP, and was wondering if I could get some constructive criticism on my current party, as the random encounters have been giving me some problems (only Patchy/Youmu consistently beating the defenses of the walls on 15f hurts)
My Party:
Reimu 72
Tenshi 67
Meiling 71
Youmu 68
Alice 68
Sanae 69
Kaguya 63
Patchy 64
Marisa 67
Aya 68
Iku 68
Ran 66
Just finished Floor 15 except for the Recruitable boss (Great Stamp took several tries, until I got an easy sequence of attacks plus proper resists + Alice debuff, no deaths there). Any and all comments wanted. Currently the main thrust of my boss strats is to get my party generally boosted some with Ran
+ Reimu, bring in Iku to help buff Youmu/Patchy/etc., and switch in and out like crazy to minimize the exposure characters like Sanae
get.
Thanks ahead of time :V
Looks like a 100% solid party to me. By which I mean "it'd be pretty hard to make it more perfect".
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FantomFang, you should be fine.
There are definitely some changeups I'd advise before the upcoming boss (She's got 0 Debuff resistance and a huge weakness to NTR attacks, so try using characters like Komachi, Reisen, or Cirno to debuff her stats significantly, and Suwako to deal some huge damage
), but in general you've got a good setup.
I think you're going to find that you don't have a huge amount of the offensive punch you might want as you progress though, only Youmu, Kaguya, Patchouli, and Marisa on that list are characters I'd really classify as heavy damage dealers, and they've each got some speed-related issues (Either actual speed or attack frequency), and Kaguya and Marisa can be neutered by elements.
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Ah, they nerf their remaining HP in exchange for the power-up. Thanks for confirming that Para :)
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FantomFang, you should be fine.
There are definitely some changeups I'd advise before the upcoming boss (She's got 0 Debuff resistance and a huge weakness to NTR attacks, so try using characters like Komachi, Reisen, or Cirno to debuff her stats significantly, and Suwako to deal some huge damage
), but in general you've got a good setup.
I think you're going to find that you don't have a huge amount of the offensive punch you might want as you progress though, only Youmu, Kaguya, Patchouli, and Marisa on that list are characters I'd really classify as heavy damage dealers, and they've each got some speed-related issues (Either actual speed or attack frequency), and Kaguya and Marisa can be neutered by elements.
Well, by the sounds of it he still has Flan to worry about as well.
Assuming he isn't planning for a specific boss fight with that lineup, his team composition is great. The only thing I find questionable about it is having both Meiling and Tenshi, but some people like running two tanks so I figured it's not worth commenting on. For the 15F fight that team should perform just fine. For 16F, the only thing I'd change would be to replace someone (Meiling in my opinion) with Suwako.
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Yeah, I've been considering dropping one of the tanks, just hadn't fully decided yet. Am leaning towards Tenshi at the moment, but we'll see. Gotta decide on who I want as a replacement first! In the meantime though, for my general team (I very rarely switch in specific characters for specific bosses, although thats changing with some of the bosses now) I've stopped using Kaguya for Suwako in order to bring out some more paralysis fun on bosses, not to mention I like to heavily switch characters in and out so Kaguya's buff's a bit less useful.
I guess from now on I'm going to start saving a nice reserve of SKP for when I decide to use a character that I haven't really been using, in order to help out with a boss battle.
EDIT: And yeah, I still have to deal with Flan. Figured I'd explore F16 first for the extra Lvl's/SKP, not to mention some nice equips I've found. It'll be interesting seeing how far I can stretch my elemental equips without grinding for more ;)
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Tenshi and Kaguya are must-haves for that fight. Tenshi will takes 0s from both Forbidden Fruit and Laveatein while it'll wipe anyone else. A buffed Kaguya will easily break 100k per Hourai Barrage on Flan (note: Flan has 600k HP).
EDIT: Currently at 3F on my new save file. Party looks like this:
Meiling
Remilia
Maribel
Minoriko Shizuha
Iku
Reimu
Mystia
Kanako
Patchouli
Komachi
Keine
Reisen
Doubt I'm going to keep this team as the current setup is mostly to cope with SP issues early on, but most of it should stay relatively similar (Mokou and Orin will probably replace Reisen and someone else). Given that, how's the lineup look?
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Doubt I'm going to keep this team as the current setup is mostly to cope with SP issues early on, but most of it should stay relatively similar. Given that, how's the lineup look?
This makes me wonder if I'm the only person who constantly rotates up his team completely based on the floor/boss I'm facing?
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This makes me wonder if I'm the only person who constantly rotates up his team completely based on the floor/boss I'm facing?
My teams are usually well-rounded enough that I can take on trash and bosses with almost the exact same lineup, usually only trading some random trash-sweeper like Chen for a buffing character like Aya.
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Starting from my 2nd playthrough, I've been getting into the habit of never changing up my team, just for the challenge. Surprisingly, I've had no problems clearing floor trash or bosses. Most notably, Team Unappreciated saw me switching characters very often against floor trash on the higher floors, but thanks to Galaxy Stop, it was rarely a problem for me.
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Starting from my 2nd playthrough, I've been getting into the habit of never changing up my team, just for the challenge. Surprisingly, I've had no problems clearing floor trash or bosses. Most notably, Team Unappreciated saw me switching characters very often against floor trash on the higher floors, but thanks to Galaxy Stop, it was rarely a problem for me.
This reminds me that I need to continue my own personal challenge game @_@
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Team Unappreciated vs. Beast of Centaurea Ver.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqTzycQ-9Y
Buffs, buffs, and more buffs. As well as lots of debuffs for the first part. A very smooth run with no deaths for the hardest of the 4 Ver.2 Bloodstained Seal bosses.
Basic strategy was to have Renko paralyze the boss, Charge up full buffs for most of my team and switch them to reserve, then defeat his first form using only Reisen and Maribel (who can self-buff themselves). When he transformed, I switched over to the characters with maxed out buffs and tanked its rapid-spam attacks while hitting it very hard.
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God do I ever hate Dual Hibachi. So Much.
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Team Unappreciated vs. Beast of Centaurea Ver.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqTzycQ-9Y
Buffs, buffs, and more buffs. As well as lots of debuffs for the first part. A very smooth run with no deaths for the hardest of the 4 Ver.2 Bloodstained Seal bosses.
Basic strategy was to have Renko paralyze the boss, Charge up full buffs for most of my team and switch them to reserve, then defeat his first form using only Reisen and Maribel (who can self-buff themselves). When he transformed, I switched over to the characters with maxed out buffs and tanked its rapid-spam attacks while hitting it very hard.
I have to say, I was particularly impressed by Rumia's damage output. Holy hell.
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Quick question: Does the game calculate resistance before or after damage reduction from def/mind? It would be awesome if it was before, but I'm guessing it's the other 'way round.
Also, by the time I fight Flan, I'm gonna be so ready. So much exp gained traversing 16F with a bit left to go, and plenty of skill exp to spend on those delicious resistances! :V
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Quick question: Does the game calculate resistance before or after damage reduction from def/mind? It would be awesome if it was before, but I'm guessing it's the other 'way round.
Also, by the time I fight Flan, I'm gonna be so ready. So much exp gained traversing 16F with a bit left to go, and plenty of skill exp to spend on those delicious resistances! :V
I'm fairly certain that it's the latter.
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You are correct in assuming affinity resistance is applied after DEF/MND. That's why it's important for Komachi, but not so much for Tenshi.
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Let's say I were to pick Sanae over Minoriko. Would a MND build still be the best way to go?
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Let's say I were to pick Sanae over Minoriko. Would a MND build still be the best way to go?
I may be relatively inexperienced, but it's what I'm doing. In fact, she's one of the few characters I've been consistently building one way :V
Her heal is powerful enough as is for most situation, and her buff is useful regardless. And considering her fragility... it's meant the difference between an OHKO several times for me. Just my 2 cents, of course.
EDIT: Yay, no more half-impossible Captchas! Darn things are easier for computers to do, I swear...
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Let's say I were to pick Sanae over Minoriko. Would a MND build still be the best way to go?
It should work fine.
Some extra effort into her Speed (and SP early) will help too, since she's got longer delays than Minoriko (Although if she buffs herself up with Miracle Fruit it really helps since that'll up her speed as well).
Personally, I use Sanae more for buffing primarily and healing if it happens to let me save someone else, which is the opposite of how I use Minoriko (Healing foremost, buffing only if there's nothing out to be healed)
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Wow. Flandre was pathetically easy after clearing 16F. Brought in Kaguya to help out (in lieu of Marisa) for the fight, and had no problems with dmg. Almost all of my guys had 200+ resists, Tenshi/Meiling close to 300. Only had one death, the initial Laeteveinn or w/e wiped out Patchy who basically never left the battlefield except for that.
Speaking of Tenshi/Meiling though, they worked awesome as a tag team here. Tenshi generally took up the 2nd slot for a bit of the fight, buffing herself and switching a few chars in and out while Meiling MTed (since she could take slash dive). Brought in Tenshi when the first Laeteveinn hit, and.... took like 100 dmg. Rebuffed, 0 dmg the next two times it went off. Ofc, looking at my guys now, I didn't realize I had gotten Tenshi's fire res all the way up to 378. No wonder. Nobody ever died to the attack, and I had a full four guys out each time. Hit and run with Suwako/Kaguya late with Iku'd Patchy early made the entire fight a breeze. I was up to Reimu 78 after clearing 16F though, although I think the extra Resist gear I got from there was important than the extra half dozen levels I gained.
Anyways, not nearly as hard as I expected. Now it's time to learn how I can prepare for 16F's boss...(I know who it is, but I know nothing about the fight at this point. Time to bring out Para's let's play...)
EDIT: Only saw one Forbidden Fruit either, and my resists were generally good enough for that too. IMHO, Slash Dive was the only dangerous move for me in the entire battle, and the 2/3x it was used all hit China, so good stuff there. Also, for those interested, everyone in the battle had at least lvl20 in Fire resist and 15 in wind/mystic from using all the SKP from F16. Totally worth it.
EDIT 2: Beat 16F on my first try without any special preparations beyond taking a look at the video Para put up and reading its description xD Accidently knocked her straight from form 1 to 3 more or less. Suwako + SPAAAARK! did most of my dmg, plus a bit from Patchy. Got sketchy at the end when she wipe 3/4ths of my party and then 1/2, but I perservered and finished her w/Spark #3 of the battle, w/Suwako ready to drop a NTR nuke. It's a good thing too, because I would've lost had the final strikes from Marisa and Suwako not done the job.
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It should work fine.
Some extra effort into her Speed (and SP early) will help too, since she's got longer delays than Minoriko (Although if she buffs herself up with Miracle Fruit it really helps since that'll up her speed as well).
Personally, I use Sanae more for buffing primarily and healing if it happens to let me save someone else, which is the opposite of how I use Minoriko (Healing foremost, buffing only if there's nothing out to be healed)
Alright, I might try her with a not-MAG build this run as well then.
Speaking of which, Eirin. How should I build her? 50/50 DEF/MND?
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Very, very, VERY important question here....
Did anyone rip the Special Disk music yet? :V
Edit: Never mind just found it. :X I should lurk moar.
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Very, very, VERY important question here....
Did anyone rip the Special Disk music yet? :V
Edit: Never mind just found it. :X I should lurk moar.
IMO the kaggy song is the best from themnew bunch, what do youmguys think?
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Only the plus disk boss music is good...the rest sucks IMO.
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IMO the kaggy song is the best from themnew bunch, what do youmguys think?
Sleepless Night and Eastern Youkai Beauty remixes are the best two, imo. Oh, and the new Bloodstained Seal music is <3.
Everything else is either meh, or worse than what it replaces.
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Honestly I don't like most of the new battle/boss themes... by comparison, anyway. Well, I think I like the Alice Boss track better, but that might be about it.
The new Bloodstained Seal boss song is a pretty good substitute though and I was swapping between them while Dual Hibachi was raping me. I also like the new final boss track, although I find I prefer it for V2 (And the normal final boss track for V1) for some reason.
I -do- like the new themes for the town though. ...Argh.
EDIT: Also I had no idea that the Plus Disk boss track got replaced with a remix of Etrian Odyssey music.
......Oh god I can't make up my mind.
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Alright, I might try her with a not-MAG build this run as well then.
Speaking of which, Eirin. How should I build her? 50/50 DEF/MND?
*cough cough*
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Well, I'm getting ready to start 17F today. Should be a "joy". :ohdear:
Anyone interested in me mapping it out like I did the 7F maze on the wiki, because I was thinking of doing it, despite the headache.
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There's a couple maps already in existance, but if you'd like to make one proper for the english wiki, go ahead.
Esoterica: Yeah, it's fine. Don't forget her SP and SPD. And I wouldn't completely neglect her MAG because Astronomical Entombing can still be decent for attacking trash, and if you plan to make her a permanent fixture in your party she might as well be useful for more than just bosses.
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*cough cough*
You "build" her in the SDM and let her stand there :V
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Well if you want her to be a 2nd slot tank go for DEF/MND. If you aren't planning on sticking her in the second slot a lot, go all for MND, since it's the more important defensive stat.
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You "build" her in the SDM and let her stand there :V
That's what I did the first time. :V
There's a couple maps already in existance, but if you'd like to make one proper for the english wiki, go ahead.
Esoterica: Yeah, it's fine. Don't forget her SP and SPD. And I wouldn't completely neglect her MAG because Astronomical Entombing can still be decent for attacking trash, and if you plan to make her a permanent fixture in your party she might as well be useful for more than just bosses.
ASStronomical Entombing is still pretty crappy for the SP that goes into it though, and her SP recovery is horrid. I'd probably just use her as a secondary tank that can throw out some decent backup heals.
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Just got into this game a week ago thanks to Parallaxal's Let's Play on GitP, and was wondering if I could get some constructive criticism on my current party, as the random encounters have been giving me some problems (only Patchy/Youmu consistently beating the defenses of the walls on 15f hurts)
My Party:
Reimu 72
Tenshi 67
Meiling 71
Youmu 68
Alice 68
Sanae 69
Kaguya 63
Patchy 64
Marisa 67
Aya 68
Iku 68
Ran 66
Just finished Floor 15 except for the Recruitable boss (Great Stamp took several tries, until I got an easy sequence of attacks plus proper resists + Alice debuff, no deaths there). Any and all comments wanted. Currently the main thrust of my boss strats is to get my party generally boosted some with Ran
+ Reimu, bring in Iku to help buff Youmu/Patchy/etc., and switch in and out like crazy to minimize the exposure characters like Sanae
get.
Thanks ahead of time :V
Just another question regarding my team, so quoting my past arrangement for convenience. Replaced Kaggy w/Suwako, and am thinking of replacing someone for Flandre (at the very least, she's joining me in sweeping trash on 18F :V). Any advice? Should I go ahead and drop my 2nd tank (Tenshi or Meiling)?
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Was thinking about doing a challenge run/let's play of a normal run of the first twenty floors, the challenge being I only use the characters necessary to beat the game, and as it is a normal run I can only use them once I recruit them. I plan on doing all the optional stuff as well as all of the post game, and maybe a bit of the plus disk.
I was thinking it'd be fun and challenging up til at least the 18th floor, but I can't really decide on some of the builds yet and was hoping to get some opinions.
My team will ultimately be
Remilia
Reimu
Marisa
Patchouli
Sakuya
Chen
Youmu
Ran
16f
18f
swapping around last two spots:
Cirno
Eirin
Alice
Reisin
though if I want additional challenge, I might ditch 16f and 18f and only use the first 12 chars.
build questions:
How much better is def Remilia over atk Remilia? I'd have to use her as a main tank up til 16f at the very least. Also, pure def Remi or Def/Mind? Her mind growth doesn't look so bad to me.
16f -> I'm tempted to try a mag based build because I can use Ran and Chen and having another nuker would be excellent. If I did this, Ran would likely be off tank, Remilia main tank. Considering the lack of nukers who need bar filling, this might work out well.
18f -> Sort of considering atk, but I think def/mnd would be much better. Last playthrough I regretted not doing so, as several fights on the plus disk would've been easier if I had done that.
I never bothered using Sakuya as an attacker, does she have any potential as one? If not, I was considering a def or mnd build to try and use her as an off tank, seeing as her hp is quite good. If not, I'd probably end up using Reimu as my offtank for awhile.
For Patchouli, does going something like 50/50 mind mag affect her damage output very much?
What to do with Cirno? I tried an attack based build on my first playthrough, and her boss damage stopped working around floor 10. I'm considering a speed build, since her defensive growths look really low, or maybe an atk build for trash sweeping. I'll probably use Reisen instead of her once I can, except for maybe 16f boss fight, and possibly 20f.
I wasn't very impressed with mag based Eirin, but none of the other girls here have a spirit nuke on par with hers. If I don't use 16 and 18f, she'll definitely be a tank. Otherwise I'm not sure what to use her for.
I was also considering just using defensive builds on everyone except for Youmu, Chen, Marisa, and Reisen and attempting to outlast most of the bosses. :V I'm surprised at Youmu's hp and defense though. I'd like trying her as a phys tank if it weren't for the fact she'll be my only physical nuker.
Any advice is welcome. I'm looking forward to this run a lot :D
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build questions:
How much better is def Remilia over atk Remilia? I'd have to use her as a main tank up til 16f at the very least. Also, pure def Remi or Def/Mind? Her mind growth doesn't look so bad to me.
16f -> I'm tempted to try a mag based build because I can use Ran and Chen and having another nuker would be excellent. If I did this, Ran would likely be off tank, Remilia main tank. Considering the lack of nukers who need bar filling, this might work out well.
18f -> Sort of considering atk, but I think def/mnd would be much better. Last playthrough I regretted not doing so, as several fights on the plus disk would've been easier if I had done that.
I never bothered using Sakuya as an attacker, does she have any potential as one? If not, I was considering a def or mnd build to try and use her as an off tank, seeing as her hp is quite good. If not, I'd probably end up using Reimu as my offtank for awhile.
For Patchouli, does going something like 50/50 mind mag affect her damage output very much?
What to do with Cirno? I tried an attack based build on my first playthrough, and her boss damage stopped working around floor 10. I'm considering a speed build, since her defensive growths look really low, or maybe an atk build for trash sweeping. I'll probably use Reisen instead of her once I can, except for maybe 16f boss fight, and possibly 20f.
I wasn't very impressed with mag based Eirin, but none of the other girls here have a spirit nuke on par with hers. If I don't use 16 and 18f, she'll definitely be a tank. Otherwise I'm not sure what to use her for.
I was also considering just using defensive builds on everyone except for Youmu, Chen, Marisa, and Reisen and attempting to outlast most of the bosses. :V I'm surprised at Youmu's hp and defense though. I'd like trying her as a phys tank if it weren't for the fact she'll be my only physical nuker.
Any advice is welcome. I'm looking forward to this run a lot :D
i'll answer to the best of my knowledge.
1. I did DEF/MND Remi on my first playthrough, and honestly I found her extremely underwhelming. Her damage didn't keep up, and I still found her tanking lackluster compared to the likes of Meiling, Tenshi, and even Komachi.
2. Again, did this on my first run. She'll only be good when your active team looks like Remi - 16f - Ran - Chen.
3. Still not sure what the preferred build is here, but he would definitely make a suitable first slot tank.
4. Sakuya's damage is pretty crappy, tbh. Killing Doll hits hard on low-DEF opponents, but those are few and far between. You'll be using her for speed buffs.
5. Apparently lots of people even go as far as pure MND (trying that this playthrough). So I'd assume that'd be fine.
6. Speed build is probably the way to go so she can get more attempts with Icicle Fall and Diamond Blizzard. You could try a DEF/MND build with White Album, but I really don't see that accomplishing anything.
7. Eirin's definitely supposed to be a tank that can function as a backup healer. You shouldn't be expecting damage from her.
Good luck.
Just another question regarding my team, so quoting my past arrangement for convenience. Replaced Kaggy w/Suwako, and am thinking of replacing someone for Flandre (at the very least, she's joining me in sweeping trash on 18F :V). Any advice? Should I go ahead and drop my 2nd tank (Tenshi or Meiling)?
I say go for it. I really don't see the purpose of having both of the pure tanks in your party at once.
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Team Unappreciated vs. Serpent of Chaos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUH9cM_-j_A
Yay, 30F boss time! This boss is more intimidating than he is truly dangerous, so long as you take advantage of his long delays and keep tanks in during his 3rd form attacks. The battle wasn't too hard, so I may try farming him for his drop if I'm sufficiently bored of 30F grinding.
What level should I be for 30F Double Hibachi Ver.2?
Just another question regarding my team, so quoting my past arrangement for convenience. Replaced Kaggy w/Suwako, and am thinking of replacing someone for Flandre (at the very least, she's joining me in sweeping trash on 18F :V). Any advice? Should I go ahead and drop my 2nd tank (Tenshi or Meiling)?
Go ahead and replace your tanks, especially if you're just using Flandre for floor trash. After all, it's not like having 2 tanks will help you beat random mobs.
What to do with Cirno? I tried an attack based build on my first playthrough, and her boss damage stopped working around floor 10. I'm considering a speed build, since her defensive growths look really low, or maybe an atk build for trash sweeping. I'll probably use Reisen instead of her once I can, except for maybe 16f boss fight, and possibly 20f.
I like going with a SPD build for Cirno, as a fast Diamond Blizzard makes floor trash a snap. Many later floors are rendered quite easy with a fast mass paralysis effect (18F comes to mind), and Cirno's the best you've got for the task until the Plus Disk. Her spells will never be strong enough to sweep most floor trash on her own, so the paralysis will be the her most important contribution against floor trash. Reisen isn't really a good replacement for Cirno's SPD debuffs, and SPD is arguably more important to debuff than any other stat.
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Many later floors are rendered quite easy with a fast mass paralysis effect (18F comes to mind), and Cirno's the best you've got for the task until the Plus Disk.
Reimu and Yukari's PAR effects are both stronger, and are capable of dealing damage.
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Reimu and Yukari's PAR effects are both stronger, and are capable of dealing damage.
Their PAR spells barely do any more damage because neither is normally built up for MAG (plus, row-attack Reimu), and Yukari's PAR effect doesn't last longer (it's only PAR-35). Cirno's far better at dealing with floor trash because she has much better SPD than the other two. Good luck out-running Rabbit Snipers, Shub-Nigguraths, and Caelaenos with Reimu and Yukari.
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Their PAR spells barely do any more damage because neither is normally built up for MAG (plus, row-attack Reimu), and Yukari's PAR effect doesn't last longer (it's only PAR-35). Cirno's far better at dealing with floor trash because she has much better SPD than the other two. Good luck out-running Rabbit Snipers, Shub-Nigguraths, and Caelaenos with Reimu and Yukari.
Wait, Yukari's PAR is seriously that weak? I could've sworn it was more potent than that...
My Reimu does outrun the rabbits though, so.
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I like going with a SPD build for Cirno, as a fast Diamond Blizzard makes floor trash a snap. Many later floors are rendered quite easy with a fast mass paralysis effect (18F comes to mind), and Cirno's the best you've got for the task until the Plus Disk. Her spells will never be strong enough to sweep most floor trash on her own, so the paralysis will be the her most important contribution against floor trash. Reisen isn't really a good replacement for Cirno's SPD debuffs, and SPD is arguably more important to debuff than any other stat.
I'm actually not too concerned about floor trash before Plus Disk, though I'll most likely use Cirno to help with that. I still haven't decided if I'll do any of Plus Disk, and if I'll let myself use Mystia (and others). I actually didn't use par very much for floor trash (though as you mention 18f, using a dedicated par like Cirno would've made the initial leveling there much, much easier :()
I suppose for boss fights I could use both Reisen and Cirno. It's not like I have many other choices anyway. I was thinking it might not be worth the time switching for bosses with debuff resists above 24 though.
It'd be nice if Cirno's stats were a bit higher than they are. I was disappointed by the lack of a strong cold spell (aside from Nitori's) til plus disk.
i'll answer to the best of my knowledge.
1. I did DEF/MND Remi on my first playthrough, and honestly I found her extremely underwhelming. Her damage didn't keep up, and I still found her tanking lackluster compared to the likes of Meiling, Tenshi, and even Komachi.
2. Again, did this on my first run. She'll only be good when your active team looks like Remi - 16f - Ran - Chen.
3. Still not sure what the preferred build is here, but he would definitely make a suitable first slot tank.
4. Sakuya's damage is pretty crappy, tbh. Killing Doll hits hard on low-DEF opponents, but those are few and far between. You'll be using her for speed buffs.
5. Apparently lots of people even go as far as pure MND (trying that this playthrough). So I'd assume that'd be fine.
6. Speed build is probably the way to go so she can get more attempts with Icicle Fall and Diamond Blizzard. You could try a DEF/MND build with White Album, but I really don't see that accomplishing anything.
7. Eirin's definitely supposed to be a tank that can function as a backup healer. You shouldn't be expecting damage from her.
1. I guess, to be more specific, can atk Remilia 1st slot tank the normal game?
2. Does pure mag 16f tank better than mind/def Ran? I was thinking Remilia/18f, Ran, 16f, Chen, and swapping 16f and Youmu between boss attacks, especially with Ran's good speed.
4. Do you think she'd do better in 2nd slot than Reimu? If not, I guess i'll use a speed build.
Thanks for the answers so far :V
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>Remilia
>1st Slot Tank
>Entire game
Uhm, no. Her stats scale too horribly for that to be even a possibility, even with massive Skill point twinking. Her role is to kill stuff, not tank. She can make a decent OFFtank, but not a primary one.
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1. I guess, to be more specific, can atk Remilia 1st slot tank the normal game?
2. Does pure mag 16f tank better than mind/def Ran? I was thinking Remilia/18f, Ran, 16f, Chen, and swapping 16f and Youmu between boss attacks, especially with Ran's good speed.
4. Do you think she'd do better in 2nd slot than Reimu? If not, I guess i'll use a speed build.
Thanks for the answers so far :V
Ehh, very possible, but not highly reccomended. I think Remi is better then a lot of people here seem to think she is. But, if anything, Remi and Meiling/16F can tank the 1st and 2nd slots along with her.
1. I'd say go with ATK-Remi
2. Not really... I think... But when I play the game, save for a few charcaters, everyone get's boosted mainly in their main offense stat, Reimu and Ran get MAG, Remi and Flan get ATK, etc...
3. Eirin? Well, DEF or DEF-MND build could possibly tank in 2nd Slot, but their are better people for that, such as Remi.
Also, it's funny watching 30F Boss use one of it's stronger spells and hit a party of Remi, 18F, Eiki and Flan-chan, in that order, for 0s.
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Also, it's funny watching 30F Boss use one of it's stronger spells and hit a party of Remi, 18F, Eiki and Flan-chan, in that order, for 0s.
The 30F bosses all hit 0's for about 20 of my characters around the 50th iteration I fought them.
It gets unsurprising after a while
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1. I guess, to be more specific, can atk Remilia 1st slot tank the normal game?
2. Does pure mag 16f tank better than mind/def Ran? I was thinking Remilia/18f, Ran, 16f, Chen, and swapping 16f and Youmu between boss attacks, especially with Ran's good speed.
4. Do you think she'd do better in 2nd slot than Reimu? If not, I guess i'll use a speed build.
Thanks for the answers so far :V
1. Remi's not going to be able to tank the normal game no matter what, even with some serious twinking like Trance said.
2. Doubtful, considering my MAG 16f and MAG Ran have pretty similar defensive stats and HP.
3. What did you do to 3!? :getdown:
4. Probably, though Reimu's pretty solid in slot 2 as well.
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I've been playing Touhou Labyrinth for a few weeks now, I've been at floor 30 for about 8 days now(I only kill 20 monsters a day, because it gets boring fast), and I'm level 540. My leveling system and party build up is something... Well, not amazing anyways.
Reimu
Marisa
Sakuya
Remi
Patchouli
Meiling
Youmu
Yuugi
Komachi
Suika
Kaguya
Mystia
As you can tell, I've pretty much foregone healing and buffing completely, except for Kaguya. I built Reimu for pure magic, and gave her some eggs. She heals Komachi up for a beefy chunk, and Sakuya keeps her speed up at a constant +50%.
But that isn't the point of this post. How bad do you think I'll do against, winner because...
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6459/huh.png)
I can apparently go and fight him now! What the crap?
(If you can't tell, I haven't even beaten Serpent of Chaos yet. Those crazy glitches)
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Remilia and Patchouli are consistently my lowest-level characters, which makes level grinding a pain. Am I doing something wrong, or are they really just that bad at gaining levels?
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Remilia and Patchouli are consistently my lowest-level characters, which makes level grinding a pain. Am I doing something wrong, or are they really just that bad at gaining levels?
Characters gain levels at different speeds. Don't worry about it. Level recommendations and such are based off Reimu, by the way.
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On that note, Eirin is by far and away my lowest level character out of everyone up to 16f. I know her leveling speed sucks, but dead last? I didn't think it'd be THAT bad.
EDIT: Eirin's level 88, Yuyuko's level 90, Yukari is level 88. Eirin is supposed to have the same leveling rate as Yuyuko, and Yukari should have a slower leveling rate than both.
...excuse me, what?
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Yeah, that's one of the reasons her stats aren't as exciting as you might think from a quick glance at her growths. People with 13X leveling rates will be significantly behind everyone else, although they usually have better stat growths. Then 16/18F chars have 14X and level lulslow :V
Also, the later you get a character, the more behind in EXP they'll be, since they'll only have 80% of Reimu's exp, and she's prolly usually in the back gaining 90%. This mostly hurts characters with fast leveling rates (Like if you leave Chen/Rumia in the SDM and pick her up at Reimu lv200, they'd be about 190 despite faster leveling rate, which hurts their stats a good bit), and ones you get in Plus Disk. The grindfests on 20F and 30F even that out, though.
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Remilia has a really slow leveling speed unfortunately. Also, members in the active party get more exp than those in reserve, and they get more exp than those in the SDM.
EDIT: :V poster above already responded to this part. This thread moves fast!
For some reason I get the feeling that my entire post wasn't read (probably because it is on the previous page). The rules I set for my challenge run were a normal run through of the normal game (first 20 floors) with only game necessary characters. Because it isn't a ng+, I won't have 16f or 18f until their respective floors, and I definitely won't have Meiling since she is an optional character.
No matter what I do, Remilia will have to first slot tank until at least I get Eirin, who is the same or worse as Remilia in hp, defense, mind, speed, and leveling requirements, but has superior affinities. If I use 16f as main tank, her leveling progression is much worse than Remilia's, not to mention her speed. The only thing that she is better than Remilia would be her mind and again affinities.
She also happens to be superior to 18f in everything except mind, (9 vs 10), and affinities but she also levels faster than him as well.
I feel like affinities aren't especially hard to raise around 14f and higher when you actually start needing them.
So after thinking about it myself, I probably will have to twink Remilia as a tank, considering I don't have any other choice. If 18f/16f can main tank, then I don't see why Remilia shouldn't be able to.
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accidentally hit quote instead of modify
:blush:
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No matter what I do, Remilia will have to first slot tank until at least I get Eirin, who is the same or worse as Remilia in hp, defense, mind, speed, and leveling requirements, but has superior affinities.
The upside to having Eirin as a tank is her ability to self-heal with Hourai Elixir. With Reimu, Yukari, and Ran tossing buffs around, Eirin could very well work as a pseudo-China.
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I've been playing Touhou Labyrinth for a few weeks now, I've been at floor 30 for about 8 days now(I only kill 20 monsters a day, because it gets boring fast), and I'm level 540.
(I only kill 20 monsters a day, because it gets boring fast), and I'm level 540.
and I'm level 540.
level 540.
***WINNER***: YOU'RE 100 LEVELS TOO EARLY TO FACE ME!
Or so I heard anyways, good luck on the mass 1week-long grinding >_>''
Also.
Any ideas on how to beat eientei? Without mass grinding?
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Winner is beatable at high 500s. 550 might be pushing it.
eientei...just buff patchy with iku and spam them with royal flare, had no problems with them myself
anything except for their super nukes was harmless
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Actually, on the note of experience rate, all 12 characters inside the labyrinth get full experience (at least, as of Special Disc) , and only the people left behind at the SDM get their experience dropped (to 80%, as said).
I'll also echo the Royal Flare damage race method of beating Eientei here. Playing the fight defensively takes forever and is a crapshoot as far as praying you don't see Astronomical Entombing or Hourai Barrage. Go all out and try to kill them before they kill you (using Reimu or Cirno in an attempt to land some Paralysis can be helpful too).
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Any ideas on how to beat eientei? Without mass grinding?
Like Banana said, have Iku buff Patchy and Royal Flare will win the fight for you.
Spamming PAR on Reisen isn't a bad idea either.
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Hmm, that sounds pretty useful, though if i use her as a 2nd slot, I could give it to Remilia :V.
If I use Sakuya as my 2nd slot tank until Ran, I might be able to use a half mag/mnd build for Reimu to help with the lack of mag buffs and Minoriko.
for Eientei, if you want to use someone besides patchouli, you can stunlock them for the entire battle using a mixture of Komachi, Cirno, Suwako and Yuugi. Suwako's stun is ridiculous, and Yuugi's stun can help increase the chance of landing one of her stuns, while Komachi and Cirno can stun and lower speed. Alice's mag debuff can also be useful if you have to take a hit. (Eirin and Kaguya both have 0 debuff resist)
Reisen is the least dangerous of the three by far and also has no par resistance, so save her for last.
Just keep in mind, when you swap someone in their delay (and the swapper's) is set to 75%, so if your tank's speed is a bit slower than that of whoever you're swapping in, you can always swap someone else in after every single attack.
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while Komachi and Cirno can stun and lower speed. (Eirin and Kaguya both have 0 debuff resist)
no no no no no
If you put more than 2 debuffs in play, Kaguya will usse Buddha's Stone Bowl, clearing all their status effects and increasing all stats by 35%. I'd say PAR and PSN on Reisen, then try to take out Eirin and Kaguya around the same time.
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But if you stunlock them they won't.
while Kaguya's par resist is fairly high, she can definitely be killed off of one good par
edit: not to misunderstand, this strategy is risky, but I find it an interesting alternative since with a bit of luck (landing a good stun on Kaguya), the battle is completely trivialized. After all, Kaguya has half the hp of Eirin. If you're going for a very consistent strategy, ignore it.
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Icicle Falling Kaguya and/or Eirin isn't a bad idea, especially considering they have 0 DBF resist. Just don't hit all three, and don't use Alice in this fight (at least until one of those two is dead)
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From my one time through I can say that paralysis does work excellent. The battle's not too bad when you have Reimu paralyzing like crazy while you pump out the dmg. Really, its not that hard of a battle normally. The only bosses I've fought that wrecked me were Youmu (darn my inexperience!) and ... Great Stamp, i think? Others were hard, certainly, but with proper prep you should be able to beat them in 1-2 tries (haven't grinded yet myself, except for BP for a certain recruitment)
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I've successfully PAR-hax'd Eitentei before (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F0OIXVkmOE), but that was on a NG+ file with Renko.
The buffed Royal Flare strategy is the quickest and safest way to win, I believe, although Marisa and Asteroid Belt is not bad too. Like with Royal Flare, Eirin is weak to MYS while Kaguya resists it. Iku is arguably the best tank for this fight; if you've been using her level-up bonuses on MND (which you should), she should have better MND than Tenshi right now. Eientei uses magic attacks almost exclusively. Plus, Thundercloud Stickleback is just an insane offensive buff that will speed things up tremendously. Just equip a PAR resistance ring or two.
(*sigh* Killed Serpent of Chaos 12 times, and still no drop.)
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I tanked Eintei most of the battle with Meiling, Reimu, and Minoriko while Patchy was in 3rd slot until her SP ran out and from then on I just used 3rd slot for nukes. If you've been building Minoriko with MND levels, she'll hardly ever take damage from anything.
Royal Flare spamming is definitely the best method for Eintei since it does great damage to all 3 at once. Once someone dies you'll want to go all out offensive with nukes though.
Wriggle PSN on Eirin could also be a good idea.
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Para, I believe Serpents drop rate is either .5% or 5%, so it'll take some time, but it is GODLY!
Winner could be beaten below Level 500 if you Skill Levels are high enough. But otherwise, 480+ is probly a good point to consider trying to win. Bonus Points if your victory was actually a Joke Attempt.
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I tanked Eintei most of the battle with Meiling, Reimu, and Minoriko while Patchy was in 3rd slot until her SP ran out and from then on I just used 3rd slot for nukes. If you've been building Minoriko with MND levels, she'll hardly ever take damage from anything.
Royal Flare spamming is definitely the best method for Eintei since it does great damage to all 3 at once. Once someone dies you'll want to go all out offensive with nukes though.
Wriggle PSN on Eirin could also be a good idea.
I prefer stacking PSN with PAR on Reisen. Encourages Eirin to spam Hourai Elixir on the character you aren't targetting, which practically functions as a free PAR on Eirin as well.
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Wriggle PSN on Eirin could also be a good idea.
Wriggle PSN on bosses is great until Plus-Disk, where speed increases turn PSN's damage into crap. I'd recommend using Wriggle on bosses until after beating 16F (And maybe on the final boss)
Para, I believe Serpents drop rate is either .5% or 5%, so it'll take some time, but it is GODLY!
Winner could be beaten below Level 500 if you Skill Levels are high enough. But otherwise, 480+ is probly a good point to consider trying to win. Bonus Points if your victory was actually a Joke Attempt.
10%, at least in Special Disk.
And I hope you meant 580+ about Winner instead of 480, especially considering his only DEF/MND buffs are Minoriko's single target and Renko's Charge. I've got no idea when beating Dual Hibachi is a good idea, though, especially considering no Kaguya; ver1 he said he had a terrible party for the boss, ver2 I imagine will be a nightmare.
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MGL has 10% rate IIRC
also 550 should be possible with a normal party, but his physicals still hurt. 580+buffs reduced his physicals to a manageable amount, while his spells weren't damaging at all...just have lots of elemental resistance.
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Iku is arguably the best tank for this fight; if you've been using her level-up bonuses on MND (which you should), she should have better MND than Tenshi right now.
MND? Like, MagicalDefense?
... So I was wrong to put everything into magic...?
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF---
Also, where do I get the para rings? I only have one on me right now, -20 para is (AFAIK) not high at all.
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How should I build Flandre, btw? Full ATK? Half ATK/MAG?
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(*sigh* Killed Serpent of Chaos 12 times, and still no drop.)
MGL's drop rate is obscenely low, even with some amazing luck after 100 times of defeating the Serpent, I still only had 30 MGLs.
How should I build Flandre, btw? Full ATK? Half ATK/MAG?
For the early stages, you want to focus more on one stat before you raise the other, not both at the same time. Pick one and stick with that for a while.
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Go full ATK on Flan IMO.
100 Serpents should give you 10 MGLs on average...30 is damn lucky :V
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0 for 21 right now on SoC's drop. I hate this, but I'm still too stubborn to give up.
MND? Like, MagicalDefense?
... So I was wrong to put everything into magic...?
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF---
Also, where do I get the para rings? I only have one on me right now, -20 para is (AFAIK) not high at all.
Iku's offense is only average, while her magic defense is way above average. I find that by the late game, Iku almost never attacks; she spends all her turns passing out attack buffs, which can double the damage output of all my other characters. Iku's damage output will never be phenominal, while her high MND makes her a decent main tank against magic-heavy bosses (I used her in 1st slot for Agastobrauma and Kedamagramaton in the Plus Disk).
PAR resistance rings are dropped by the moth enemies on 6F.
How should I build Flandre, btw? Full ATK? Half ATK/MAG?
Full ATK all the way. Starbow Break only uses ATK, while her other spells use ATK and MAG equally. Since Flandre's ATK growth is better than her MAG, each level bonus you put into ATK gives you a bit more points than if it were put into MAG. Her composite formulas simply add her ATK and MAG together, so raising ATK will give you better results.
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Starbow Break is what makes her a boss nuker. Did almost as much as Nitori vs Winner for me.
Laveatein can be replaced by Hourai Barrage...and you don't reduce your own bar.
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MND? Like, MagicalDefense?
... So I was wrong to put everything into magic...?
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF---
Also, where do I get the para rings? I only have one on me right now, -20 para is (AFAIK) not high at all.
I know Para already responded to this, but
Iku's offensive capabilities are really only good as far as sweeping floor trash goes. However, her MND growth combined with her HP makes her arguably the best tank against magic in the entire game. To add to that, she has the best single-target attack buff in the game as well, and can lower enemy defense significantly to allow for even more destruction. She's seriously the best support character in the game imo, and it makes me sad it took this long for her to be generally accepted as a useful tank/support character instead of just "oh look another subpar nuker dump her ASAP".
On that note, I already like tank-Eirin a lot more than nuker-Eirin, and I'm only on floor 4.
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Also, where do I get the para rings? I only have one on me right now, -20 para is (AFAIK) not high at all.
Actually, with how Paralysis resistance works, that's huge.
PAR, PSN, SIL, and DBF resistances - at the very least - work as the following: 100% - (3 * RES) = chance of success. therefore, that +20 to PAR resistance is actually a 60% reduced chance of it taking effect. 33 Resistance = 99%, so anything beyond that will make you totally immune.
DTH looks a little... different, but mostly the same. It's just a bit odd because there's been rare cases reported of death effects that shouldn't have taken effect, doing so, and death spells with way over a 100% success rate missing on stuff that should've been guaranteed to connect. ...soyeah.
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Adding to that, don't feel like you're gimping your character by giving them something to increase their PAR resistance instead of their attack; the 72% buff from Stickleback will be much more noticeable than the 40% or so you're getting from most equipment. Not to mention, you're better resisting PAR on top of that. :V
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the 72% buff from Stickleback will be much more noticeable than the 40% or so you're getting from most equipment.
Also, the way those buffs work, the 72% will be FAR higher. The +40% is only a boost to your base stats; it'll be smaller and smaller as your skill levels and levelup bonuses raise those stats in the first place (Still useful mind you, but yeah). The +72% will be to your total, after applying all of your equipment and stuff, so it's pretty massive. A +40% piece of equipment when you're at 3000 MAG might only get you 400-500 more; a +72% buff will be about 2000 more attack power.
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10%, at least in Special Disk.
And I hope you meant 580+ about Winner instead of 480, especially considering his only DEF/MND buffs are Minoriko's single target and Renko's Charge. I've got no idea when beating Dual Hibachi is a good idea, though, especially considering no Kaguya; ver1 he said he had a terrible party for the boss, ver2 I imagine will be a nightmare.
I meant if your not limiting your party at all for any reason. For Para's Team... 550+ without uber Skill Levels.
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Also, the way those buffs work, the 72% will be FAR higher. The +40% is only a boost to your base stats; it'll be smaller and smaller as your skill levels and levelup bonuses raise those stats in the first place (Still useful mind you, but yeah). The +72% will be to your total, after applying all of your equipment and stuff, so it's pretty massive. A +40% piece of equipment when you're at 3000 MAG might only get you 400-500 more; a +72% buff will be about 2000 more attack power.
I wasn't 100% sure if it worked differently for buffs than it does for equipment, but yeah, that's another fantastic reason.
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I'm so glad to see Iku getting so much love. Personally, after 30 floors I'd probably name her MVP of my party right now. I'm willing to bet that if she weren't in my party, the damage I'd be missing out on would be greater than Nitori's damage output, given that she more or less doubles the damage dealt by Nitori, Orin, Mokou, and Rumia. Plus, she fills the 2nd (and sometimes the 1st) slot well.
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550 without Reimu...yeah, right :V
550 was a gamble with Reimu, as way too many of his attacks 1 shot your chars and you can do nothing about it. Sword of Light/Aule's Warhammer are 100% piercing and do 160-200k.
480 would cause every single physical to completely destroy your party.
Looking at his SoC video...I dunno how he built his party, as his Meiling has 60k more HP than mine had...might be thanks to builds though(and equipment), I put everything into def for mine plus I concentrated on affinities before stats. That, and my Meiling was 10 levels lower at SoC.
I might be wrong, but Winner at 550 with Reimu seemed luck based, so 480 is impossible unless I built my party seriously wrong, which I doubt as no boss gave me much trouble.
Well, some freak of nature can always occur which would make him spam useless buffs. But it's like 1/1000000.
I'm so glad to see Iku getting so much love. Personally, after 30 floors I'd probably name her MVP of my party right now. I'm willing to bet that if she weren't in my party, the damage I'd be missing out on would be greater than Nitori's damage output, given that she more or less doubles the damage dealt by Nitori, Orin, Mokou, and Rumia. Plus, she fills the 2nd (and sometimes the 1st) slot well.
I'd still rather use Ran(if she has enough SP to spam it). Most bosses hold off until you somewhat damage them, and buffing 6-8 sweepers to switch in/out at once seems somewhat faster than buffing 1 by 1...definitely better than Ran in early/midgame though.
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I use and love both; both do a great job as OffTanks (2nd Slot) for my party behind Meiling, and Ran can either help Reimu or Iku in the battle depending on the situation. Not to mention that the buff's stack up to just about hit the max nicely. :V
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Looking at his SoC video...I dunno how he built his party, as his Meiling has 60k more HP than mine had...might be thanks to builds though(and equipment), I put everything into def for mine plus I concentrated on affinities before stats.
You're correct that I built my Meiling very differently from yours. Mine has much lower DEF than yours, because I put a lot of level bonuses into her HP. This was necessary in order for her to survive Shikieiki's Last Judgment at a reasonable level. Personally, I'd agree that raising her DEF is probably better, though, but I didn't have Komachi for this run, so I had to make some concessions.
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I'm half-tempted to try dropping Reimu this playthrough. Minoriko is pretty much always going to be in the 4th slot, and I've got other characters for applying buffs. Truth be told, I never got that much mileage out of Reimu's heal in the first place. Healed too little even with a pure MAG build and the delay was like "what."
Aside from probably relying on Renko for partywide MND buffs, I think it'd probably work rather well considering how little I used her outside of Great Hakurei Barrier in the first place.
EDIT: Plus I have Meiling as my primary tank and Eirin as one of my off-tanks, so yeah. Healing shouldn't be too much of an issue.
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Ok, I had completly forgotten what Level you should be for Winner, since having hundreds to thousands in Skill Levels makes things a lot easier :V
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Okay, so here I am losing countless times to both tenshi and eientei, I can't even kill anybody from eientei, and tenshi obliterates my party with motherland. My party has 2 tanks (Meiling and Komachi) 4 Physical DMG Dealers (Remi, Youmu, Yuugi and Nitori) 3 Buffers (Ran, Aya and Iku) and Suwako, all levels 39-45.
OK, so I put Meiling in front to tank along with Iku in eientei, third slot reimu and fourth patchy, I use Evil-Sealing Cicrcle (And pray all get PAR >_>) and buff patchy, if needed I use healer (Yes, I have the para resistance ring equipped) on her and if not switch iku out and put yuugi, patchy uses royal flare, eientei obliterates my party, normally sniping reimu, then ganging up on meiling and then yuugi, finally to leave my patchy alone, poison her and killing her (and no matter who I put in their places, they have the same fate), and that is when eirin doesn't decide to open the battle mana draining my patchy on the first turn >_>''
As against tenshi, I use the same strategy, only silent selene instead of royal flare, and reimu is replaced by yuugi (who also goes to slot 2 and iku on 3). In a nutshell, she slaughters my party before using focus and finishes the job with motherland.
Anything I'm doing wrong? >_>''
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Tenshi: Adding some Nature RES gear might help in a pinch. She's also vulnerable to paralysis: spam Suwako and Reimu's PAR effect. I would suggest playing defensively against Tenshi and building up buffs, switch-hitting in your Nukers if you need to; she doesn't really hurt that much.
Oh....I just saw your lvl. You're probably underleveled. Wiki recommends 50-55 for Tenshi (I was just short of that, IIRC). 45-55 for Eientei. I actually beat Tenshi first, and she helped make Eientei a snap.
As far as I know though, in my one clear of both, it was simply Paralysis-spam with Reimu only (didn't use Suwako then) to lock down the enemies, while Ran/Iku/Reimu(1st turn, at least)/Aya buff up my party. Eientei wasn't hard for me because buffed MND neutralizes so much of what they do; scariest thing was when Reisen got off a very succesful Discarder at a bad time; also for Tenshi, gear up Meiling with that NTR RES gear. I managed to survive Violent Motherland when I fought her, and that buy's you 3 more turns to finish her if you weren't able to do it yet.
EDIT:
Here's Parallaxal's Let's Play of both fights:
Tenshi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0CC5WvEa_g
Eientei: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A69OA9j65Lo
Especially of note is that he lacked all of the effective setups he mentioned :V
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If your PAR-Lock isn't working that often for you, or your getting wrecked in one or two rounds, try using Great Hakurei Barrier and Exocising Border instead of Evil Sealing Circle. That will help the survival part for them. Same should work for Tenshi as well, to some extent. With Yuugi, who do you target?
Those levels you gave also make me think you should level a bit more. Like FantomFang said, Reimu Level 50 should get you though.
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You could probably take Tenshi on right now, but you're way underleveled for Eientei. I was at Reimu 49 when I beat that fight, and I'd say I was still slightly underleveled then too.
I really don't remember what I did in the Tenshi fight. Reimu/Ran DEF buffs, some form of debuff, Suwako spamming PAR, then damage racing with Iku+<nuker> was my strategy for a long time though, so I'd try that. :derp:
Also, I'd like to take this time to say that Renko
is absolutely amazing, and I wish you didn't need to do a NG+ to have her in your starting party. Charge makes everything early on a cakewalk.
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Against Tenshi, USE DEBUFFS. Seriously, she has terrible debuff resistance for a boss. You probably have trouble damaging her with her insane DEF and MND, but Iku can cut her DEF in half with ease. Bring Cirno and start the battle with Icicle Fall; a -50% SPD debuff will slow her down tremendously. Just think; how much extra time do you get to kill her after she uses Focus if you keep her at half speed? At 50% speed, Tenshi is literally slower than a level 1 Patchy.
In addition, you can bring Alice and hit her with Return Inanimate. Dropping Tenshi's ATK will help if you need to survive Violent Motherland, and Return Inanimate might do OK damage if you're using Iku's buffs/debuffs. As stated earlier, Violent Motherland's damage can be greatly reduced by NTR resistance gear, such as Hirami Lemons.
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Side note, once you beat Eientei, Reisen is helpful for Tenshi. Discarder's Debuffs are rather nice at that point of the game.
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After 27 kills, it finally dropped! (http://a.imageshack.us/img442/5291/036rl.jpg)
(Yes, that's Wriggle main tanking after Meiling got OHKO'd by a 220k Thousand Handed Kannon. She can survive the full 3 attacks on SoC's 3rd form as long as she isn't hit by Scourge, Thousand Handed Kannon, or Demon-slashing Dance.)
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MGL is awesome isn't it :D Picture having 3 on everyone in your team >:D Even if Equips aren't that good later, MGL's effects are great, enough so that they are always great.
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MGL is awesome isn't it :D Picture having 3 on everyone in your team >:D Even if Equips aren't that good later, MGL's effects are great, enough so that they are always great.
The ultimate tank item is actually the Physical Reactor from the Dual Hibachis. I put 3 of them on Tenshi and then nothing can damage her. EVER
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The ultimate tank item is actually the Physical Reactor from the Dual Hibachis. I put 3 of them on Tenshi and then nothing can damage her. EVER
except for non elemental piercing :V
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except for non elemental piercing :V
DETAILS
...Okay fine
grumble thousand armed kannon grumble
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For Eientei, I think the only way to reasonably par lock them involves debuffing all of their speeds, since it gives you much more room.
Specifically what I did on my first playthrough (and first battle against them, when i had no idea how the battle worked) I was using Komachi and Yuugi as my two tanks, had Suwako in reserve, both Aya and Chen, Minoriko, Reimu, Patchouli, Cirno, Alice, and Marisa. The person in the 12th slot wasn't important enough to bother remembering :V
Also worth mentioning, I was very underleveled. (I believe my Reimu was level 43 or 45)
I stunlocked Kaguya (and spammed a lot of avici), killed her using Chen and Aya, then I missed one par on Eirin so she got off her super magic attack (but she also had very low mag at that point, so it didn't do very much). Reisen was Reisen.
Incidentally, when I did the battle, I missed my first stun with avici on Kaguya, and she used Buddha Stone Bowl on everyone in the battle. It definitely prolonged the battle, but wasn't too big a deal.
(incidentally, I used the same strategy for Grand Stamp, even though people think it's suicide. It was never able to take its second turn, and I was also under level for that fight as well)
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Didn't need to level up, and got tenshi, wasn't as hard as I expected, I just had to plan ahead, yuugi died on the second turn :V
And I discovered why meiling was surviving motherland before, she has a green dream on her :V
Now I have another tanker for mah party, I only need to level >_>''
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More technical issues...
My Config file seems not to affect the game at all. I wanted to mute the BGM volume for those times when I had to level grind and got tired of the music. However, I put the slider to 0% and unchecked the box, and the BGM still plays when I start the game. Maybe it has to do with the fact that my Config file isn't in english?
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More technical issues...
My Config file seems not to affect the game at all. I wanted to mute the BGM volume for those times when I had to level grind and got tired of the music. However, I put the slider to 0% and unchecked the box, and the BGM still plays when I start the game. Maybe it has to do with the fact that my Config file isn't in english?
You could always just open the Volume Mixer and mute the individual application. Would mute SFX in addition to the BGM (although they may be supposed to get muted with that slider, I dunno) though. This
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More technical issues...
My Config file seems not to affect the game at all. I wanted to mute the BGM volume for those times when I had to level grind and got tired of the music. However, I put the slider to 0% and unchecked the box, and the BGM still plays when I start the game. Maybe it has to do with the fact that my Config file isn't in english?
I have the same issue. Sucks if I want to turn off spell animation too. Is it normal to only have 1 config.exe file?
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If you want to turn off the music, just put all of the sound files into a different folder
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If you want to turn off the music, just put all of the sound files into a different folder
I actually just wnat to turn down the volume rather than turn it off though...So I can hear people talking to me via vent/skype while I play >=P
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I actually just wnat to turn down the volume rather than turn it off though...So I can hear people talking to me via vent/skype while I play >=P
Just do what I mentioned then. Go to the volume icon in the bottom-right, right-click, select "Volume Mixer", and then mute/reduce the volume for that individual application. It won't effect the other applications, just leave the general volume, windows sounds, etc. alone.
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isn't that just for vista?
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Works on Windows 7. Pretty sure I could do it on Vista. Not sure when it was implemented though, so I guess no promises on older OS's. I'd be surprised too if Mac didn't have an equivalent.
EDIT: Urgh, Google Image search suggests that it isn't on XP or further back. Maybe there's another way... I've been using Vista/W7 for so long now because of the software alliance for my school I barely remember XP :V
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Works on Windows 7. Pretty sure I could do it on Vista. Not sure when it was implemented though, so I guess no promises on older OS's. I'd be surprised too if Mac didn't have an equivalent.
EDIT: Urgh, Google Image search suggests that it isn't on XP or further back. Maybe there's another way... I've been using Vista/W7 for so long now because of the software alliance for my school I barely remember XP :V
Yeah, I'm using XP.
Even if I was using 7..I still have the problem of config.exe not turning off spell details.
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Works on Windows 7. Pretty sure I could do it on Vista. Not sure when it was implemented though, so I guess no promises on older OS's. I'd be surprised too if Mac didn't have an equivalent.
I seriously never knew about this. I'm going to have to try it now.
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I seriously never knew about this. I'm going to have to try it now.
I realized it by accident originally myself. Heh.
Finally finished exploring Floor 18, btw. Party ranges from LVL 79-92, w/Reimu being the highest at 92 :V
Think I'm going to give the 18F boss a run to see how it goes. Wish me luck!
EDIT: Ouch, kind of stinks when he always seems to go after my cannons the second they hit the field xD I am a bit underleveled, I think I'll just grind up a few levels until Reimu 95 or so... probably doesn't help that quite a few of my party members are low 80's...I guess even with the long repetitive nature of 18F and my tendency to jump back if characters died in battle before i could start exploring new areas I'm still underleveled, thanks to me basically skipping basically all of 17F. The enemies were just too annoying there lol.
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I think Reimu 92 should be high enough.
I seem to recall doing the fight somewhere between Reimu 85 and Reimu 90 (I also skipped the 17f because I got impatient) Reimu 94 was my winning attempt. The wiki suggests Reimu 90 for the battle I think.
I found the most difficult part was the first section, as while my tanks, Reimu, and Ran could survive 1 Heavenly Demise with buffs, most of my other party mates could not. My general strategy: Meiling and Tenshi took the first two slots, Reimu third and Ran fourth. I worked it out so that Meiling and Tenshi would be a bit slower than Reimu, Ran, and my neutral nukers, so I could bypass all of their delays by switch hax.
Basically, it was hope he didn't rape my team in the first form with an unlucky Rasetsu Fist. I found that it became very easy once the elemental forms started, since switching around my two neutral nukers and the dedicated form destroyer provided enough damage to destroy the form before his first turn (with the exception of his Mystic form, cuz I didn't prepare properly for that). The last form had so little hp, so if you're lucky enough, you can down it in a turn or two.
If you want some more specifics...
I actually was having a lot of difficulties with the fight, until I watched one of Parallaxal's videos on youtube. The idea that helped me the most was to prepare a character to deal with each of his elemental forms (which have about 280k hp each) and gear them with elemental resistances and damage. I ended up using Alice for the Water form, Aya for Nature, Suwako for Wind (and first and final), Marisa for Spirit, Ran for Mystic, and Nitori, Flandre to help out in general. I actually had Aya ko'd in the first form early on, but Nitori and Flandre did a good enough job for it not to matter when the nature form popped out.
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I think Reimu 92 should be high enough. I seem to recall doing the fight somewhere between Reimu 85 and Reimu 90 (I also skipped the 17f because I got impatient). The wiki suggests Reimu 90 for the battle I think.
I'm pretty sure it starts being doable in the late 90s but is best done in the low 100s. I'm still getting pasted at Reimu lv103.
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I HATE YOU MOKOU!
Seriously, so much hate right now. I can usually manage to keep most everyone alive until Ressurection and then she always is able to act before I can nuke her. Hax Mokou, Pure Hax.
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I'm pretty sure it starts being doable in the late 90s but is best done in the low 100s. I'm still getting pasted at Reimu lv103.
Oh turns out I remembered wrong. I pulled up one of my archived saves, Reimu was level 94 when I won.
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Yeah, the "Reimu 90" is a minimum, not a recommendation. And I don't think anyone's actually succeeded that low (92 is the lowest I know of). Most people edge closer to 100+ before succeeding.
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so just for fun, I decided to go at it again with Reimu 94, as I had the save loaded up anyway.
I believe I did 4 tries total, 2 of them being auto quits because Tenshi got hit by Rasetsu fist as the first action each time.
My first try I wasn't sure how fast my characters were, and for some reason didn't buff attack with Ran. It ended somewhere after 4 phases, because I couldn't do damage.
My fourth run was the victory one.
Overall, I lost two characters, being Aya and Kaguya, who both got caught in a Heavenly Demise when I slipped up a switch during Nature form.
My full party was Tenshi, Meiling, Reimu, Ran, Nitori, Flandre, Suwako, Marisa, Kaguya, Aya, Chen, and Alice.
The only difficulty in the fight was making sure I didn't lose anyone to Rasetsu fist in the first phase, and avoiding a double Heavenly Demise before I could get my defense up. I used a lot of swapping to get around big delays, and generally had Reimu buff up my tanking team (Tenshi, Meiling, Reimu, and Ran) while Ran buffed up my attackers. It was worth noting, with around 72% def/mnd, my tank team took 0 from Heavenly Demise (cept for Ran who took 1k or so).
I got 3 of Ran's buffs off before I triggered Rinnosuke's form change. That allowed Nitori to do 100k with Megawatt and Flandre did around 90k with Starbow. Generally I swapped Ran and Reimu in if I missed delay (this happened on two of the six elemental forms) and had them tank some hits, and rebuff while my tanks did nothing but swap (or focus if I was waiting to tank a hit).
Suwako's nuke did a very impressive 150k to the wind form, Marisa's Master spark buffed at 100% did 240k to the spirit form. Alice did 90k a shot to the water form, Kaguya did something like 100k that much to the Mystic form, and I don't really remember what else I did there.
I also spent downtime between forms (when i did enough to trigger a form change) to do a bit of buffing and to try and swap in attackers that might be useful for the next form (generally Flandre and Nitori). Fire form wasn't a big deal either, I used NItori and Flandre
On nature form, I accidentally switched Kaguya in the second slot instead of Aya, and decided to wing it anyway. The result was a Heavenly Demise which killed Aya and Kaguya. Aya actually had enough hp to tank one, but she had been hit by one earlier, so it wasn't very good.
The final form wasn't really noteworthy either. I made sure to save enough sp on nitori for one megawatt, so she got that off, I also got off a starbow break, tanked an attack and swapped to Chen, who killed him with 1 Idaten.
Overall I was a bit lucky and Tenshi never got hit by Rasetsu fist (instead Meiling was hit).
I think it's doable at 90, I don't think 4 levels would've made a very large difference as I never ran into any close calls, my only deaths were due to swapping the wrong person in, and my tank team could survive attacks with a large margin (except for Rasetsu fist on Tenshi) granted I did luck out at the first phase and didn't get double Heavenly Demise before I got buffs up. Also, every person on my non-tank team (except for Aya and possibly Alice) could die in one hit from Heavenly Demise, so I was also lucky there as I missed switching out in time twice.
EDIT: thinking about it a bit more, 4 levels probably did make the difference between sweeping a form in one turn with my equipment setup. I think it's worth noting that I geared everyone except Nitori, Marisa, and Flandre with defensive and affinity gear rather than pure damage (I had 5 blue sabers though, which I didn't even allocate that well as 3 went on Chen who only attacked once). Maybe at 90, with damage gear, maybe the form sweeping speed would be the same.
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I'm pretty sure it's doable at below 90. But thing is I seem to be about 92 with NO out of the way grinding whatsoever. Being that far in the game at a lower level would require screwed up enemy spawns, and/or ignoring blank areas on the map...which is simply not an option for the perfectionist side of me >=P
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Who says you have to spend all your exp levelling at every opportunity.
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Well, the real problem for me is not as much Reimu 92, as much as some of my characters have yet to break lvl 80 (Suwako/Flandre). Also, it seems several of my characters are right below the threshold of survivability on several of his attacks. Heavenly Demise, elemental All attacks, etc. A few levels should give me the breathing room to give some of my squishier, but not Patchy squishy, characters some breathing room. My plan is just to get to Reimu 95-97 or so by grinding for the items I'll need for the PostGame stars right now, as I still have some items I'm missing on the lower page numbers that i can go seek out. Makes for non-pointless grinding, at least. :V
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Who says you have to spend all your exp levelling at every opportunity.
I know but there is no point NOT to unless you want to go for records or bragging rights or something, which hasn't really been an interest for me and probably not for most people. Just have fun dammit =p.
As for phantoms last post... I can't quote it on my phone but:
Reimu 92 is a reference point FOR everyone. Everyone in your party of 12 gets exp equally, so people simply use reimu as a "standard" so to speak to measure party exp. I'm pretty sure everyone has their slow legalese in the 80s as well. I know in my video, pretty much everyone in my party was except for reimu, rumia, and china.
Patchy btw should actually have an easy time surviving heavenly demise, her mnd is more than enough to compensate for her bad def on composite attacks, just don't have her anywhere but the back or else tai slash will pawn her. Just don't neglect her mnd because it's "high enough anyway", testing it equally to her mag ensures that composite attacks are always tame for her.
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I know but there is no point NOT to unless you want to go for records or bragging rights or something, which hasn't really been an interest for me and probably not for most people. Just have fun dammit =p.
As for phantoms last post... I can't quote it on my phone but:
Reimu 92 is a reference point FOR everyone. Everyone in your party of 12 gets exp equally, so people simply use reimu as a "standard" so to speak to measure party exp. I'm pretty sure everyone has their slow legalese in the 80s as well. I know in my video, pretty much everyone in my party was except for reimu, rumia, and china.
Patchy btw should actually have an easy time surviving heavenly demise, her mnd is more than enough to compensate for her bad def on composite attacks, just don't have her anywhere but the back or else tai slash will pawn her. Just don't neglect her mnd because it's "high enough anyway", testing it equally to her mag ensures that composite attacks are always tame for her.
Yeah, I undestand what you mean. The problem is that the chars I mentioned specifically (Suwako, Flandre, at the very least) have been running on 80% of Reimu experience for quite a while now, and some of the others are a bit behind her exp total as well from late pickups. The people who I've had from the really early game are much better off.
Anyways, I'll be giving it a shot again after I finish the aforementioned item search.
Another question though: if I were to go about doing the PostGame content after finishing these last few floors, is there anything I should know about team configuration? How do the higher power levels affect strategy in general?
EDIT: I probably should raise Patchy's MND a bit more now that you mention it. I'd been focusing on MAG to allow her to more effectively sweep annoying enemies like Helgelmeres (sp?) and their massive defenses. Plus, I've heard she's not that great in the Postgame, so I might consider replacing her with another nuker like Nitori since I have a heavy buffing focus to my party.
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The major I noticed was that a lot of things are extremely fast. Most fights in the postgame can be done with strategy, but massive damage race (which 18f, 16f, nitori, flandre/kaguya team are excellent at) tends to work really well.
For team configuration I suggest picking up Mystia as soon as you can, because her PAR is fantastic and will help in almost everything you do. Otherwise I don't think it really changes much, though using Kaguya will help in several boss fights and for floor trash in plus disk. She's excellent at killing anything that doesn't resist her last three spells (like Helbelmeres), as they all ignore magic defense.
Strategy-wise, fights involve a lot of good switching to avoid delay (as normal I guess?), making sure you swap out nukers, count hp and count turns. It'd probably be a good idea to check the database before every boss fight to help with a strategy. Otherwise I found postgame very straightforward.
You'll end up with millions of skill points from floor 20 grinding anyway, so it won't be tough working out a party you like, and you'll probably use a few different members in your party for whatever you do anyway.
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Why is it I'm the only person who thinks Kaggy's best spell is her buff. I mean mnd-piercing is great and useful for certain situations yes, but..but.. Her buff is honestly the best spell in the game IMO (better than 16f's even since it adds a buff, has less delay, is on a faster character, and is easier to manage). Anything anybody can do Kaggy can make better!
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Why is it I'm the only person who thinks Kaggy's best spell is her buff. I mean mnd-piercing is great and useful for certain situations yes, but..but.. Her buff is honestly the best spell in the game IMO (better than 16f's even since it adds a buff, has less delay, is on a faster character, and is easier to manage). Anything anybody can do Kaggy can make better!
If her stats were more like Iku than Patchy so she could actually tank while throwing out her buff, I might prefer her more for that role. As it stands, I already have characters that can throw around buffs, and there's always tanks able to switch nukers around after every 0-ATB powernuke.
She can definitely be useful for buffing when exploiting an elemental weakness or fueling a powerhouse like Youmu or Nitori, though.
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Defeated Double Hibachi Ver.2, fight went way smoother than Ver.1 did. Highest level was Rumia lvl 480 (because I can't use Reimu level for comparison, heh). Only deaths were to the first Dual Funeral Washing Machine (I switched in those 3 empty slots for subsequent DFWMs). That's to be expected, as Dual Funeral Washing Machine is a OHKO to anyone except Meiling.
Believe it or not, pre-berserk mode, the MVP damage dealer was none other than Reisen. She had more than enough SP to drink a Grand Patriot's Elixir every other turn, keeping her stats at +80-100% for the whole battle. With that, her combined DEF and MND were comparable to Meiling's, so she stayed in for the entire fight (until DFWM). Since she was the only damage dealer who could stay in for so long, she used her time to do well over 23 million damage to Hibachi #1, which is actually way more than even Nitori did to Hibachi #2 during that same time. If anything, Reisen did too much damage, as I killed Hibachi #1 while Hibachi #2 still had quite a fair bit of HP left. And Nitori needed Keine and Iku to keep her buffed up, while Reisen was completely self-sufficient with buffs of her own! It's amazing how well Reisen's power level increases once she gets the SP to use Grand Patriot's Elixir freely. I even let her stay in to switch characters quickly during Hibachi #2's berserk mode, as Grand Patriot's Elixir was as good as Cat's Walk at delaying her turn.
Video coming soon.
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If her stats were more like Iku than Patchy so she could actually tank while throwing out her buff, I might prefer her more for that role. As it stands, I already have characters that can throw around buffs, and there's always tanks able to switch nukers around after every 0-ATB powernuke.
She can definitely be useful for buffing when exploiting an elemental weakness or fueling a powerhouse like Youmu or Nitori, though.
Yeah I'm not talking about people disliking kaggy herself, I'm talking about her spell specifically >=)
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Yeah I'm not talking about people disliking kaggy herself, I'm talking about her spell specifically >=)
I was talking about that specific spell too. She lacks the HP to be able to sit out in the active party and throw buffs around unlike characters like Iku, and people running a secondary tank aren't going to have problems switching nukers in and out instead of resorting to a costly buff to give them their turn again. It's a nice buff, but I usually get more effect out of her by switching her in and out for Hourai Barrages.
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I was talking about that specific spell too. She lacks the HP to be able to sit out in the active party and throw buffs around unlike characters like Iku, and people running a secondary tank aren't going to have problems switching nukers in and out instead of resorting to a costly buff to give them their turn again. It's a nice buff, but I usually get more effect out of her by switching her in and out for Hourai Barrages.
Oh I see, If you spend level ups on her mnd instead of her mag, you can safely stay out for magical enemies much like patchy can though. And her buff wont get gimped, and her def piercing spells still remain powerful enough to 1shot those enemies with obscene mnd and def (except those crabs on 27f until some grinding is done, but I think that's the case even if you build mag (though less grinding is needed), though I'm not sure).
Honestly I don't know how people play where everyone is apparently switched out all the friggin time. I mean everyone shits on the characters who can actually take a hit and dps (like remi), and swear by characters who tend to get 1shot. But I don't care how fast your tank is, there's just no way 1 tank can swich out 3 party members of glass cannons in and out in between boss attacks AND do whatever it is they do as a tank (like heal themselves occasionally for china's case). I see people go "hurr if you have ___ out when the boss attacks you're a stupid fuckup who should just jump off a balcony shitface!!!!"..Then I see videos of thoe characters out on boss attacks, then the same people talking about how good they are.. I just don't get it...Not that I'm saying you're one of them.
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I was talking about that specific spell too. She lacks the HP to be able to sit out in the active party and throw buffs around unlike characters like Iku, and people running a secondary tank aren't going to have problems switching nukers in and out instead of resorting to a costly buff to give them their turn again. It's a nice buff, but I usually get more effect out of her by switching her in and out for Hourai Barrages.
Surprisingly, I've had very few problems with Kaguya's survivability in practice, much like Patchouli's. They've both got the MND and affinities to negate a lot of stuff almost entirely, and the majority of physical attacks that will hit everyone are row-based. Obviously there are exceptions, and all it takes is one badly-timed Snipe or Slash Dive or whatever else attack to take them down - but with that said, most characters in the game can be waylaid in a single attack if it's the right one.
But yeah. I use Kaguya for both buffing -and- Hourai Barrage/Swallow's Cowrie Shell. I just use whichever is more appropriate at the moment, since her usefulness as a damage dealer can be really affinity-dependant (But it's awesome when it works)
But I don't care how fast your tank is, there's just no way 1 tank can swich out 3 party members of glass cannons in and out in between boss attacks AND do whatever it is they do as a tank
You really don't get how the whole switching thing works, do you? Hint: That's not how you do it.
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I would actually recommend 2 tanks for bosses. My current strategy with Mokou is to start off with Meiling, Eirin, Reisen, and Cirno and mass debuff her stats (speed from the get go). I have enough time to switch Reisen and Cirno out for Reimu and Aya before the first Tsuki then it's just a matter of mass party shuffling.
Basically in-between every Mokou turn I do this: Switch in Reimu for Reisen (Discarder), Switch in Reisen for a Nuke (Nitori, Suwako, Yuugi, or Marisa), Nuke, Switch nuke out for another nuke, Nuke, Switch back to tanking party before next Mokou turn (Meiling, Eirin, Aya, Reimu).
Yes, keeping Mokou at -50% Speed gives you that much time in-between turns.
MY problem is once she uses Ressurection. *rage*
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Personally, I prefer to switch out just one slot for high-delay damage dealers, and have 3 characters stay in almost full-time.
For example, with the Double Hibachi Ver.2, I had Meiling permanently in slot 1, Iku and Keine trading off slot 2 whenever they're low on HP and passing out buffs as usual, Reisen in slot 3 as a full-time damage dealer, and slot 4 for switching high delay characters in and out. In other fights, I might have Minoriko or Rumia in full-time for healing. Regardless, I think the best party has both characters who can stay in and long-delay characters to switch out. But since you can alternate between your best long-delay nukers, your party shouldn' t normally need more than 2 or 3 glass cannons to fill this role. Any more and you're probably not utilizing your characters and switching tactics efficiently anyway. The rest of your damage dealer slots would probably be better spent on bulkier nukers and buffers at that point.
For post-Resurrection Mokou, you're going to have to plan to survive Fujiyama Volcano, as it's very hard to kill her before she attacks thanks to her way higher SPD. That's why I don't normally bother with forcing her to use Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse, since I'm going to have to go for mass FIR affinity anyway for surviving Fujiyama Volcano. It's physical, so Yuugi should be able to survive with the proper gear, as would more dedicated tanks.
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Well, hello again, I seem to have a problem, yet again...
I finished eientei, and right now I'm at the 15th floor, I want to get all of the flandre events ready for later when I fight her. However, I'm pretty damn sure I have done the first and second talking events, and the third on floor 13 isn't where the jap wiki said it should be, also, what's the number to getting there? Seriously, one wiki says 64, the other says 120. >_>''
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I would actually recommend 2 tanks for bosses. My current strategy with Mokou is to start off with Meiling, Eirin, Reisen, and Cirno and mass debuff her stats (speed from the get go). I have enough time to switch Reisen and Cirno out for Reimu and Aya before the first Tsuki then it's just a matter of mass party shuffling.
Basically in-between every Mokou turn I do this: Switch in Reimu for Reisen (Discarder), Switch in Reisen for a Nuke (Nitori, Suwako, Yuugi, or Marisa), Nuke, Switch nuke out for another nuke, Nuke, Switch back to tanking party before next Mokou turn (Meiling, Eirin, Aya, Reimu).
Yes, keeping Mokou at -50% Speed gives you that much time in-between turns.
MY problem is once she uses Ressurection. *rage*
I think Mokou was the one fight where I didn't go insane switching people in and out. I started with Tenshi, Ran, Reimu, and Chen. Ran threw out her offensive buff, while Reimu used her defensive. Chen used Kimontonkou and spammed Flight of Itaden until her SP ran out (seriously didn't even bother switching her out before attacks, she could take a hit surprisingly), after which I replaced her with Patch. After Reimu had buffed Tenshi/Ran's defense to max, I swapped her out for Suwako. After Ran ran out of SP, Youmu and Nitori were swapped back and forth while Patch and Suwako spammed Silent Selene and Iron Ring, respectively. When Patch ran out of SP I swapped Marisa in for her, because that meant Resurrection was next turn.
Honestly I don't know how people play where everyone is apparently switched out all the friggin time. I mean everyone shits on the characters who can actually take a hit and dps (like remi), and swear by characters who tend to get 1shot. But I don't care how fast your tank is, there's just no way 1 tank can swich out 3 party members of glass cannons in and out in between boss attacks AND do whatever it is they do as a tank (like heal themselves occasionally for china's case). I see people go "hurr if you have ___ out when the boss attacks you're a stupid fuckup who should just jump off a balcony shitface!!!!"..Then I see videos of thoe characters out on boss attacks, then the same people talking about how good they are.. I just don't get it...Not that I'm saying you're one of them.
Use a lineup of tank - buffer/secondary tank - nuker - healer/second nuker. Third slot gets switched around frequently, everyone else stays in nearly full-time.
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Well, hello again, I seem to have a problem, yet again...
I finished eientei, and right now I'm at the 15th floor, I want to get all of the flandre events ready for later when I fight her. However, I'm pretty damn sure I have done the first and second talking events, and the third on floor 13 isn't where the jap wiki said it should be, also, what's the number to getting there? Seriously, one wiki says 64, the other says 120. >_>''
I think you can use either. Very few of the destinations require a specific combination.
Also I think there's some additional conditions to getting her to show up there.
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I think you can use either. Very few of the destinations require a specific combination.
Also I think there's some additional conditions to getting her to show up there.
Only one that has special conditions is 15F, which you need 3000BP between Reimu, Marisa, Remilia, Sakuya, Patchouli, and Meiling for (which you're pretty much guaranteed to have)
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Only one that has special conditions is 15F, which you need 3000BP between Reimu, Marisa, Remilia, Sakuya, Patchouli, and Meiling for (which you're pretty much guaranteed to have)
Not if you've been doing a challenge run :V
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Not if you've been doing a challenge run :V
Yeah, I'm kinda fucked on that one. :V (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ujCDVSVCnc)
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Team Unappreciated vs. Double Hibachi Ver.2
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRprcG8YSfU)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDc3j73WCMU)
Part 1 goes up to the death of Hibachi #1, and part 2 is against berserked Hibachi #2. Overall, this thing ended up easier than I expected compared to round 1 against these guys.
Reisen is awesome.
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The way I normally do switches is I have my tank and off tank in the first two slots, who are slightly slower than the people in the third and fourth slot. (for boss battles it'll often be Meiling and 18f).
That means you can swap the last two slots every 25% delay gauge on your tanks.I dropped a dedicated 4th slot healer before plus disk, and started using only Reimu, so I just swap her out after exorcising barrier like any other nuker on my party.
I did this because I had a fragile nuke heavy team ( with characters like Kaguya, Flandre, Nitori, Suwako).
For Kaguya, I actually do use her buff once in awhile, for when I mess up a delay switch for some reason, or there's someone I really want to buff (like maybe my team is low on hp, kaguya is in 4th slot, reimu just used hakurei barrier. I buddha bowl Reimu, she exorcise barriers, then my two tanks get their turn and swap them out again).
But, I think if you use 16f, you don't need Kaguya's buff as much. If I didn't use her, I'd probably rely on it much more, and would have gone a mnd build. As it is, with a mag build, Kaguya's damage is pretty excellent.
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Great. The only item I could grind for was on 3F. Thought I was missing more :V
Guess it's time to grind for real while I iron out any changes to my strategy...
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The strategies involved with using one or two dedicated switchers/switch slots is quite interesting. There's a lot of pros and cons for both. Just to consider it...
1. Using 1st slot tank and 2nd slot backup tank to switch two slots worth of characters:
> Reimu is almost essential for healing (although Rumia might do a decent job if buffed; I've done it myself).
+ Best used by parties with many glass cannons.
+ Less need to spread out resistance/affinity gear among multiple characters.
- Difficulty buffing your attackers unless you're switching in Ran, resulting in lower damage output per attack.
- Speed of the operation cannot be improved; can't take advantage of speed buffs.
2. Using 1st slot tank to switch one slot for attackers, keeping 2 other characters in long-term:
> Minoriko may be the better healer for this, due to much lower delays.
+ Easier to buff your attackers as they switch in (I have Iku or Keine stay in for my team).
+ Best use for bulky characters or some self-buffers (Remilia, Reisen, Maribel, etc.).
+ Makes better use of speed buffs.
- Harder to bring more characters up to par for survivability; can't just concentrate on offense.
- Can't efficiently utilize more than 2 or 3 glass cannon nukers in this fashion.
It really depends on your party to decide which method is better. Personally, I think the 2nd method is better if you've got single-target buffers like Iku, as it's much easier to cast buffs and keep them up this way, which results in nearly double the damage from your glass cannon attackers, plus additional damage from any other attackers that are staying in. Using Ran helps if you're going with the first method, but that's still kind of slow in comparison. The 1st method is better if you don't have single-target offensive buffs and still need a way to utilize many glass cannons.
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The strategies involved with using one or two dedicated switchers/switch slots is quite interesting. There's a lot of pros and cons for both. Just to consider it...
1. Using 1st slot tank and 2nd slot backup tank to switch two slots worth of characters:
> Reimu is almost essential for healing (although Rumia might do a decent job if buffed; I've done it myself).
+ Best used by parties with many glass cannons.
+ Less need to spread out resistance/affinity gear among multiple characters.
- Difficulty buffing your attackers unless you're switching in Ran, resulting in lower damage output per attack.
- Speed of the operation cannot be improved; can't take advantage of speed buffs.
2. Using 1st slot tank to switch one slot for attackers, keeping 2 other characters in long-term:
> Minoriko may be the better healer for this, due to much lower delays.
+ Easier to buff your attackers as they switch in (I have Iku or Keine stay in for my team).
+ Best use for bulky characters or some self-buffers (Remilia, Reisen, Maribel, etc.).
+ Makes better use of speed buffs.
- Harder to bring more characters up to par for survivability; can't just concentrate on offense.
- Can't efficiently utilize more than 2 or 3 glass cannon nukers in this fashion.
It really depends on your party to decide which method is better. Personally, I think the 2nd method is better if you've got single-target buffers like Iku, as it's much easier to cast buffs and keep them up this way, which results in nearly double the damage from your glass cannon attackers, plus additional damage from any other attackers that are staying in. Using Ran helps if you're going with the first method, but that's still kind of slow in comparison. The 1st method is better if you don't have single-target offensive buffs and still need a way to utilize many glass cannons.
Funnily enough, I think I oftentimes go for a strategy more like #1 with a party configuration more similar to #2. So many fragile nukers now. I'll probably get another sturdy character in there for somebody like Aya come postgame, and maybe switch out one of my other nukers for Nitori. I dunno though, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
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I used to use a strategy more like number 2 (and Minoriko is a pretty awesome switcher if she sits in 4th slot!), but for certain bosses, I felt a lot more comfortable using a different strategy.
I don't actually adhere that strictly to 2 tanks 2 swaps though, as depending on the boss and who can tank, I'll sometimes have Aya in the third slot and switch in the fourth for buffs, and have second slot attack, or switch in ran in 4th slot and have her buff whichever person i swap in.
I don't think it's too hard to buff your attackers using Ran (or Keine) with that setup, since you'll have to switch Ran and Reimu to tank boss attacks anyway. I wonder how much different the overall speed is though, considering you're using two nukers at a time instead of one. Also, if using 18f, you have World Shaking Military Rule to help buff two attackers in the beginning, and Ran can assist rebuffing afterwards.
I actually like approach 2 better though, it seems like a safer way to approach bosses. In fact I'd probably try something like 18f/Meiling, Iku, nuker/Reimu, and Ran.
The other single target buffers though, do they work well in slot 2 compared to Iku? If I were using Sanae or Kaguya, i feel like i'd need to leave them in slot 4.
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Sanae and Kaguya definitely belong in slot 4, and should probably be built for MND to up their survivability for this task Kaguya's "buff" is very unique, and care must be taken to ensure the guage filling effect isn't wasted. For best effect, she should be just a tiny bit faster than whoever is doing the switching. With a 50% delay on Buddha's Stone Bowl, she'll be able to fill a guage every other switch. The slightly higher speed lets her go after the faster nuker attacks, but before the switcher takes them out.
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Finally back at my house so I can get back to thLaby, 22F whee.
Now that people realize Iku is awesome, someone needs to put Iku and ATK-based Aya together and realize she's Chen 2.0 when buffed.
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Her formula's are still meh though, sadly enough. I've built my Aya as 50/50 ATK/SPD and she's really only strong on the attack if the enemy has low defenses or is weak to wind. I really wish they'd give her a Non-Elemental atk...
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Her formula's are still meh though, sadly enough. I've built my Aya as 50/50 ATK/SPD and she's really only strong on the attack if the enemy has low defenses or is weak to wind. I really wish they'd give her a Non-Elemental atk...
With bad defense piercing, not going full ATK will really hurt her damage.
Also, Iku. Were you spamming PWG with her at 100% speed buff while Iku (Or Keine) buffs her? Otherwise her damage would be meh, yes. And SP required means this doesn't work particularly well till Plus Disk.
On paper, it's perfect. Her ATK and damage formula are better then Chen's Idaten with similar delay and speed. Due to quickly hitting 100% SPD buff she'd be faster then Chen, with a supporter buffing her that'd fix the MAIN problem of her not having Kimontonkou for atk buff. And she can buff speed too or switchwhore if attacking isn't good on that boss or as needed at the moment.
The thing that holds her behind Chen is not being able to buff her own attack. But if you fix that, and can manage the SP...
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Finally back at my house so I can get back to thLaby, 22F whee.
Now that people realize Iku is awesome, someone needs to put Iku and ATK-based Aya together and realize she's Chen 2.0 when buffed.
I'm not sure why I haven't tried this yet.
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Well, I'm up to Reimu 97 now, spent SKP buffing my HP's to help get me above the "death threshold", as I call it, for some of 18F's attacks, and raring to go!
I may go ahead and try using Iku on Aya for the NTR form. Maybe Aya properly boosted can blitz through it before 18F gets more than 1 attack off.
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Well, I'm up to Reimu 97 now, spent SKP buffing my HP's to help get me above the "death threshold", as I call it, for some of 18F's attacks, and raring to go!
I may go ahead and try using Iku on Aya for the NTR form. Maybe Aya properly boosted can blitz through it before 18F gets more than 1 attack off.
She should do really well, considering even unbuffed Aya shreds NTR form for me.
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Aya's attacks will probably do somewhere between 70k-100k if you built her for attack, and she had a bit of atk boost.
Peerless Wind God did 90k a hit to the Nature form, with my level 94 Reimu party, and I think that was only with 40% atk buffs.
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oh my god this is awesome
aya is in my party now so hard
She burns through those ATK buffs damn fast though, so you've really gotta have Keine or Iku out keeping them up.
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18F boss really doesn't have that much DEF or MND, so most characters can hit hard with the elemental weakness on their side. I've had Wriggle with some attack buffs do 50k a hit to the Wind form, and I never gave her a single level up bonus to ATK.
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Well, I just beat 18F on my 2nd full try after getting to Reimu 97. Several other tries were aborted after an early snipe killed a Nuker or Aya. Seems like the hardest part of the battle is honestly his original form. In the later ones, you have a rather good idea of what he's going to do, and how to protect against it. In his original form, however, he easily and often snipes your 3rd to 4th row party member, which is a raeg-quit moment (that actually happened in my first full run again when I lost, he sniped some Nukers early on, impacting my availability in the elemental forms and prolonging the battle to the point that when I reached the final part I had no nukers left alive, sad day).
The funny thing about the run that beat him is I didn't have a single death. No snipes in first form, and after that it was simply strategy, timely switching, and counting health to make the most of my turns and to minimize the damage he did. Was also more efficient with Reimu/Ran, resulting in the defensive buffs being prolonged until the end of the battle (with more guys alive, it was easier to bench them periodically to rest to keep them from running dry. Previous runs they ran out near the middle b/c they had no effective replacements to hold the line). Oh, and a few equipment changes to more fully single out Nukers for different forms made a big difference.
All in all, a very fun and technical fight. I still imagine that there are other party makeups (or more likely, tactics) that would have made this easier, but with enough work I got mine going with flying colors. :D
EDIT: How should I spend my LVL-Ups on 18F btw?
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Yeah Aya is a underrated attacker IMO. Her formulas are indeed pretty underwhelming but her good (though not great) attack combined with her high speed and reasonable leveling rate makes her one of the best wind dpsers there is IMO. She can't really tank physical or magic attacks, but she doesn't get steamrolled by either either. I also prefer her speed buffing over Sakuya's...
Last though, she is quite possibly the most amazing trash clearer in the game...Like flan good. I mean she's one of precious few characters with multi-target def-based attacks instead of mind, hers isn't even all that expensive either. Her speed also allows her to get the jump on the fastest enemies, and her damage should be good e nough that she can 1hko stuff like eyes of twilight. I think she also is what made 17f trash not really worth mentioning on my first playthru (causing me to wonder wtf everyone was whining about later on, and experiencing my own 17f hardships on my future playthrus).
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I think she also is what made 17f trash not really worth mentioning on my first playthru
I feel weird because I've never had trouble with 17F trash on my three playthroughs, Reimu being in the low 70s on the second two :\
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Imagine how hax Aya would be if she had a neutral damage spell.
for 18f, if you intend on using him as a tank, I'd suggest getting Defense and Mind. I decided to try using him as my tank for certain boss battles (with a full attack build) and regretted it.
His attack growth is really good, and his skills do a lot of damage, so if you did want to use him as an attacker I imagine you could have him as an off tank stay in sort of character. I think you'd get the best mileage with a defensive build though, as I find his buff much more useful than his damage.
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Well, FantomFang already has 2 tanks on his team, so I'm not sure if he wants a 3rd unless he's replacing one of them.
And I'll admit, even though I always recommend just running, I personally do fight my way through 17F every time, and while it's one of the harder floors, I've still successfully done so with every party. Usually, I have a fast paralysis user with me to disable Angelic Conceptions and Gold Knights, although it doesn't work on Angelic Conception - Battle. I just need strong characters in the 1st slot to tank the Battle's attacks.
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Well, I "had" two tanks. I dropped Tenshi because as much as I like her for her defenses, her slow speed combined with her weakness to attacks like Rasetsu Fist made her non-ideal.
My current line-up is as follows:
Meiling, Ran, Reimu, Aya, Flandre, Marisa, Suwako, Youmu, Iku, Patchy, Sanae, Alice
Offtank has typically been Youmu/Ran now, but I'd like to start using 18F in that slot. So who do you figure I should bench? 18F will be Offtank+Buffer, using the offensive capabilities to clear trash.
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Well, I "had" two tanks. I dropped Tenshi because as much as I like her for her defenses, her slow speed combined with her weakness to attacks like Rasetsu Fist made her non-ideal.
Almost everyone who doesn't have a high HP value gets hit by Rasetsu Fist because it ignores defense :/
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How exactly do I get the NG+ save file to work with special disk 3.01? How do I start the NG+?
Edit: Working but why do most of the girls have enough EXP for level 40+?
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The save file needs fixing. I'm too busy at the moment to make a new one.
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Almost everyone who doesn't have a high HP value gets hit by Rasetsu Fist because it ignores defense :/
Yeah, but Tenshi is for 1st slot tanking. Almost anyone else you'd put in the first two slots has the HP to survive this attack (From most enemies/bosses that use it, at least). Anything with Rasetsu Fist or some other def-ignoring attack renders Tenshi very unreliable as a tank.
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I'm not sure what you people are doing with your Tenshis, my Tenshi (not sure what level, Reimu's at 103 or something) has about 6.5k HP. She can take a Rasetsu Fist from 18F and survive, and not even need to worry about getting killed by a followup because everything else hits zeros. All levelups go to DEF/MND, but for skillpoints I keep her HP in line with DEF and MND.
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I'm always really unlucky with Rasetsu fist. It tends to hit my second slot character a lot more than my first whenever I run into a boss that uses it. Luckily they all have the hp to take it, but it still bothers me a lot.
Or when Kaguya in 4th slot gets sniped by a rasetsu fist in the first turn. Stuff like that makes me rage.
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I found this problem was caused by overwriting the save_NaN folder in TL 3.01's saves folder with the save_NaN folder from TL 2.04. When I did a fresh install of 3.01 and then copied in only save1/save2/save3, and then used the NG+ save file link from one of the earlier threads (I _think_ it was the third thread?), it worked perfectly - no messed up EXP or affinities.
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I found this problem was caused by overwriting the save_NaN folder in TL 3.01's saves folder with the save_NaN folder from TL 2.04. When I did a fresh install of 3.01 and then copied in only save1/save2/save3, and then used the NG+ save file link from one of the earlier threads (I _think_ it was the third thread?), it worked perfectly - no messed up EXP or affinities.
I still haven't played Labyrinth since the Special Disc came out (it's been quite a while since I played...I still need to clear the floors/puzzle to fight Eintei), but when I was testing to see how the Rumia artwork I was working on looked in-game for her LFace image I noticed that my equipped items were screwed up and my stats were in the negative millions :V
I had backed up the standard save folder before copying older my old save, so I just restored it and copied save[1-3]. Everything worked peachy after that.
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Well, I "had" two tanks. I dropped Tenshi because as much as I like her for her defenses, her slow speed combined with her weakness to attacks like Rasetsu Fist made her non-ideal.
My current line-up is as follows:
Meiling, Ran, Reimu, Aya, Flandre, Marisa, Suwako, Youmu, Iku, Patchy, Sanae, Alice
Offtank has typically been Youmu/Ran now, but I'd like to start using 18F in that slot. So who do you figure I should bench? 18F will be Offtank+Buffer, using the offensive capabilities to clear trash.
Just quoting myself to re-ask the question: Who do you all think I should replace out of the above spoilered characters for 18F, considering I'm going to use 18F as an Off-Tank/Buffer alongside Meiling?
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Just quoting myself to re-ask the question: Who do you all think I should replace out of the above spoilered characters for 18F, considering I'm going to use 18F as an Off-Tank/Buffer alongside Meiling?
It's a tough call on specifics, but generally speaking you could afford to part with any one of your nukers. I'd just pick one you aren't terribly attached to.
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Or when Kaguya in 4th slot gets sniped by a rasetsu fist in the first turn. Stuff like that makes me rage.
Or in my case, Patchy is 4th slot getting sniped by moves like Snipe, Slash Dive or Galaxy in a Pot. Those 3 moves are the cause for almost all of my Patchy deaths.
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It's a tough call on specifics, but generally speaking you could afford to part with any one of your nukers. I'd just pick one you aren't terribly attached to.
I'm thinking that I'll drop Marisa. I rarely use her for anything but her Master Spark anymore, and that's just not as nice now as some of the more consistent nuking the others do. Maybe I'll bring her back later though, when Patchy's usefulness starts dropping off PostGame, or so I am told.
EDIT: Hehe, no TP problems with 18F when you have a Destiny Stone waiting, along with switching out to put a Star of Elendil on, considering 18F gets something out of all of the stats, more or less.
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Or in my case, Patchy is 4th slot getting sniped by moves like Snipe, Slash Dive or Galaxy in a Pot. Those 3 moves are the cause for almost all of my Patchy deaths.
wtf? Galaxy in a pot is mystic damage that has craptacular mnd-piercing.. it's like a basic attack only gimped by being mys element and using mag/mnd instead of atk/def.
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wtf? Galaxy in a pot is mystic damage that has craptacular mnd-piercing.. it's like a basic attack only gimped by being mys element and using mag/mnd instead of atk/def.
It hits DEF, and has a nice formula as far as non-major enemy attacks go.
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Don't forget the very common Arrow Rain performed 2x in a row. Oh so frustrating when you don't happen to have speedster's out there. :V
EDIT: Whew. 19F cleared. Now time for a Boss clearing marathon, although it shouldn't be very hard :D
EDIT 2: Wow. Beat all of those bosses in record time. Pathetic HP's combined with knowledge of their weaknesses, nukers to exploit them, and 18F's buff meant they only got a half-dozen turns...if they were lucky ;)
EDIT 3: Wow Paralaxxal, your guys look like they're quite a bit tougher than my own right now. Did you take the pictures for your Let's Play after you finished exploring the floor, b/c your HP totals (and your Patchy, wow) seem to be quite a lot better than mine.
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EDIT 3: Wow Paralaxxal, your guys look like they're quite a bit tougher than my own right now. Did you take the pictures for your Let's Play after you finished exploring the floor, b/c your HP totals (and your Patchy, wow) seem to be quite a lot better than mine.
Yeah, I usually take the image pictures way after I make the videos. The ones you're thinking of were probably taken after I beat the final boss already. The ones for the plus disk were probably taken several dozen levels after the boss fights. Just ignore that, heh.
Grinding for the very last boss with Team Unappreciated right now. I've gotten more or less every piece of equipment I wanted for my team from the 30F mobs (well, could always use some more Awakened Exoskeletons, but I'm not counting on more of those dropping), so I'm heading back down to 27F grinding for the massive skill points from the Lilith. Currently @ Rumia level 554.
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So, here's a question.
What do people think would be the worst 12-person team?
And no specifying useless builds either. Assuming every character could be used to their full potential, what do you think would be the worst overall setup for a team in the game?
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I could give you pure glassy cannons, or a team that simply horribly lacks in damage while not having the best stallers.
Pure glassy cannons would be much worse, and really stupid in play, while horrible damage team would be usable to some extent.
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There's only about 10 glass cannons, though.
Do Aya and Chen count?
No, wait, Aya needs repeated Iku buffs to deal nuke damage, though she can still take some hits.
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Do Aya and Chen count?
Chen is glass and tinfoil, Aya is better but would still definitely fit into a glass team.
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Oh, derp, forgot about Marisa.
Without any buffs, though, the damage would be really low compared to having even two nukes with Iku and Keine and Ran laying on the buffs.
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Marisa
Sakuya
Chen
Cirno
Rumia
Suwako
Flandre
Patchouli
Aya
Okuu
Yuka
Can't think of a 12th character without adding some synergy to this. Eirin maybe, since Hourai Elixir won't contribute much with the low HP totals, but then you'd actually have a tank.
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Kaguya?
But Sakuya as a glass cannon? Yeahno.
Yuka can take hits. Rumia isn't really a cannon, either, though the formula for that attack is great.
Cirno? She's just for making foes take less actions.
Hmm. :V
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Kaguya?
But Sakuya as a glass cannon? Yeahno.
Yuka can take hits. Rumia isn't really a cannon, either, though the formula for that attack is great.
Cirno? She's just for making foes take less actions.
Hmm. :V
I wasn't going for glass cannons necessarily, I just wanted to make a fragile team that lacked synergy. Which is surprisingly hard to do. The way I see it, glass cannons plus supporting characters that won't actually offer much in the way of help and deal pitiful damage is probably the way to go. No defensive or offensive buffs or debuffs. Speed is fine, considering Sakuya's damage is hardly noticeable against anything with DEF, and Cirno's flat-out restricted to debuffs due to even more pitiful damage. Cirno is also extremely fragile; this team would probably be the one time her self-buff could be useful.
Kaguya I didn't want to include, because she has a buff that could heavily benefit the team by providing higher offensive and defensive stats, as well as letting...pretty much anyone take a second turn and offer some considerable damage.
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So, here's a question.
What do people think would be the worst 12-person team?
And no specifying useless builds either. Assuming every character could be used to their full potential, what do you think would be the worst overall setup for a team in the game?
Quote from somewhere else on these boards:
Oh god don't let me take that long.
Don't you dare start a new game with "worst possible party" punk! I'm on to you! *Eiki lightning bolts you*
Marisa
Sakuya
Chen
Cirno
Rumia
Suwako
Flandre
Patchouli
Aya
Okuu
Yuka
I'm pretty sure it's easy to think of worse, but t hinking of worst is indeed hard. Personally I think Sakuya is too good at tanking physical, and Patchy is too good at tanking magic to include on that list. I think aya is also too good at everything to include. Her dps without buffs is really NOT as bad as everyone seems to think, and she can take a hit physically or magically...And her speed buff would probably benefit a team with a buncha scardy-cats who need to switch out before a nuke too much (you might think there's nobody else to switch with them, but if you build a character specific to tank a certain element using items/weird level up choices, I think it might be done).
also, I haven't looked at Mokou recently, but wasn't she surprisingly squishy too? I forget.
Anyway, I wont try to find the worst possible combination, but I'm pretty sure completing the game without cheating is pretty much impossible to do in 1 lifetime with this:
Marisa, Iku, Sanae,Ran,Reisen,Eirin,Mokou,Yuyuko,Renko,Maribel,Yuka,Reimu.
Obviously this isn't a party with just characters that I think are "bad".. Since there are some really excellent ones in there..BUT, I think it should be obvious why the team would suck hard >=P
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also, I haven't looked at Mokou recently, but wasn't she surprisingly squishy too? I forget.
She's actually pretty durable. I think her defenses are about the same as Alice's, but she has more HP. I think. I certainly haven't had problems putting her in the second slot with a MAG build though.
Anyway, I wont try to find the worst possible combination, but I'm pretty sure completing the game without cheating is pretty much impossible to do in 1 lifetime with this:
Marisa, Iku, Sanae,Ran,Reisen,Eirin,Mokou,Yuyuko,Renko,Maribel,Yuka,Reimu.
Obviously this isn't a party with just characters that I think are "bad".. Since there are some really excellent ones in there..BUT, I think it should be obvious why the team would suck hard >=P
...I'm really not seeing what's supposed to be bad about this team. Maybe it's just because it's past 2 AM, but it seems like a team I'd willingly use. You've got a solid first slot tank with Eirin, multiple characters that can take second slot easily (hell, pretty much everyone but Marisa), two healers, plenty of buffs, the best debuffer in the game as well as two other solid debuffers that can also deal damage and buff themselves, high powered nukes, multitarget attacks for sweeping trash...is there something I'm missing here?
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I actually think that's plausible when you put it that way.
But it just depends on how you prioritize your switching in and out of everyone...
Eirin might go tank and heal, but she also has to help switch people out, and with Eirin's slow speed...
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Marisa, Sakuya, Chen, Cirno, Rumia, Suwako, Flandre, Patchouli, Aya, Okuu, Yuka, someone else
Yeah, fragility would be a pretty significant problem - relying on Sakuya, possibly Aya, to be your tank would be... odd. Yuka isn't terrible for defenses, is she? Patchouli can tank MND as is anyway... but yeah. No real synergy, no magic buffing so Rumia won't be that effective as a healer... yeah, I can see this team having some issues, although to be fair Cirno and Suwako does give some good lockdown, and the team is overall really bloody fast and that'll only be helped by Sakuya and Aya being around. They would definitely have turn advantage on their side and the power to make use of it.
As for the last slot? I actually wanna say Nitori - she's about as fragile as most of the rest of that cast, and she might pack a punch, but that's not anything the rest of the team doesn't already carry.
Marisa, Iku, Sanae,Ran,Reisen,Eirin,Mokou,Yuyuko,Renko,Maribel,Yuka,Reimu.
Only flaw I see is that there's no real physical attackers (Which sort of potshots Iku a little) and elemental coverage is a little weak (Almost everyone's MYS or SPI, and your non-elemental options are very limited - Ran might actually go good on offense for that because you have so many buffers you won't really need her for her support functions). I can definitely see this team beating the game, although it'll have hell the moment it has to fight Dual Hibachi.
Don't you dare start a new game with "worst possible party" punk! I'm on to you! *Eiki lightning bolts you*
That wasn't my intention at all.
...But now I'm considering it
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Dual Hibachi.
That's what I was going for. Theoretically you could using the "attack" function. But that's where "without cheating during the course of 1 lifetime" part comes in.
I believe defeating dual Hibachi (and bloody papa btw) is a requirement in order to get to winner is it not? For a star thing? So it's not really all that optional after all.
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That's what I was going for. Theoretically you could using the "attack" function. But that's where "without cheating during the course of 1 lifetime" part comes in.
I believe defeating dual Hibachi (and bloody papa btw) is a requirement in order to get to winner is it not? For a star thing? So it's not really all that optional after all.
Well, you can avoid fighting Dual Hibachi until like halfway into the Plus Disk, so that's lots of time to get extra levels. I know you have to fight it eventually though.
Either way, that's why I said "You can beat the game with it". You just might not be able to do the Plus Disk - or at least not all of it.
I mean there's always Renko to damage both of them but the level needed for that to become feasible would be ridiculous and you'd kind of ruin Charge in the process...
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Well, you can avoid fighting Dual Hibachi until like halfway into the Plus Disk, so that's lots of time to get extra levels. I know you have to fight it eventually though.
Either way, that's why I said "You can beat the game with it". You just might not be able to do the Plus Disk - or at least not all of it.
I mean there's always Renko to damage both of them but the level needed for that to become feasible would be ridiculous and you'd kind of ruin Charge in the process...
...forgot about that.
replace her with someone who can't then. Or make a physical-only party (which would be worse off since th ere is no "attack" function via magic".. I don't know if there are 12 characters who have absolutely no magical based attacks though.
But yeah, dual-hibachiv2 is probably still stupidly impossible within the length of 1 lifetime or without cheating even with renko damage. or dual hibachi 1, or a combination, or bloody papa, you get the idea.
Personally I consider plus disk "fair game" enough now to be treated as part of the game. Special disk didn't really nerf the stats on the enemies quite so much. But selling items really makes the "grindfest" in special disk pretty much completely non existant except for 30f, which is now made much faster as well with the introduction of the 'm' key.
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Got tired of level grinding tonight, so I tried a practice run against ***WINNER*** a lot earlier than I expected. My highest level character was Rumia lvl 583.
Here's the result. (http://a.imageshack.us/img94/4139/038ju.jpg)
Was very difficult, though, and I felt like I was struggling at times without a group DEF/MND buff. Poor Orin got OHKO'd on her very first turn out. I really did get lucky a lot near the end there. Too bad I didn't record this one, eh? I think I'll try to level up some more before attempting to record this, because this one was close enough as it is.
Regarding the all-MAG party vs. Dual Hibachi: you do have Reisen's PSN spell to hurt Hibachi #2, you know. If you're patient enough for that. Same goes for Bloody Papa; both have 0 PSN resistance.
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I've been incredibly irritated at the fact that I can get to Ressurection on Mokou and not win. I know I should just move on with my exploring and come back later but my stubborness is getting to me. Curse you Mokou!
I'll explore 15F more and get my ass kicked. :V
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Mokou is pretty bs at first, but one thing you could try, if your not using it already. Damage Count, add up your damage so you roughly know when she'll Rez, then you can switch in the nukes and let them do their job. One of my attempts against her was actually kinda epic, I bring in Marisa and Remi for the big nuke, I get off Spear, but not Spark. Volcano leave only Meiling out, and cue the 1-on-1.
Meiling is friggin awesome, she has killed bosses for me multiple times, usually with her being the only one out.
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That's what I was going for. Theoretically you could using the "attack" function. But that's where "without cheating during the course of 1 lifetime" part comes in.
I believe defeating dual Hibachi (and bloody papa btw) is a requirement in order to get to winner is it not? For a star thing? So it's not really all that optional after all.
Reisen has poison, too.
But yeah, that one fight would definitely stop the team in its tracks. It'd work fine until then though.
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Any idea how I can keep my monitor refresh rate from effecting LoT's speed? Because it plays fine at 60hz, but if it's set to 85hz the game plays too fast, especially the menus (which is just great when Reimu uses Barrier instead of Border resulting in some heavily buffed corpses).
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So I walked into the 16F boss with this team order and Reimu level 80... Komachi, Eirin, Yuugi, Chen, then Reimu, Alice, Reisen, Aya, Suwako, Iku, Minoriko and Suika.
Cue Eirin being knocked out in two attacks due to not being able to heal herself. Or get a single action.
Then Suwako and Chen get knocked out because I overestimated Suika's Black Hole debuff and Chen's speed to switch both of them out.
The rest of them also fell slowly as well, leaving only Komachi, Suika, Aya, Reimu and Iku - and Iku was sitting in the back because she accidentally paralyzed herself (!).
Reimu was being a healer, Komachi was barely managing to debuff, Aya was hitting rather well once DEF debuffs were in effect, and Suika had just enough SP recovery to get 36 SP per focus... Meaning exactly one rock throw.
Once Iku recovered and buffed Suika, she was hitting for 60000 for a relatively cheap and fast attack. Iku died though, and it was just those four.
And then the boss died from a Narrow Confines of Avici. :V
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So I walked into the 16F boss with this team order and Reimu level 80... Komachi, Eirin, Yuugi, Chen, then Reimu, Alice, Reisen, Aya, Suwako, Iku, Minoriko and Suika.
Cue Eirin being knocked out in two attacks due to not being able to heal herself. Or get a single action.
Then Suwako and Chen get knocked out because I overestimated Suika's Black Hole debuff and Chen's speed to switch both of them out.
The rest of them also fell slowly as well, leaving only Komachi, Suika, Aya, Reimu and Iku - and Iku was sitting in the back because she accidentally paralyzed herself (!).
Reimu was being a healer, Komachi was barely managing to debuff, Aya was hitting rather well once DEF debuffs were in effect, and Suika had just enough SP recovery to get 36 SP per focus... Meaning exactly one rock throw.
Once Iku recovered and buffed Suika, she was hitting for 60000 for a relatively cheap and fast attack. Iku died though, and it was just those four.
And then the boss died from a Narrow Confines of Avici. :V
I love it when silly stuff like that happens. Orin killed off Kaguya's Foe with a Cat's Walk, and I had Tenshi Sword of Rapture something for a victory once as well.
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Wrenching victory from the jaws of defeat can definitely be incredibly satisfying :V
I've finished clearing everything up to the Final Boss now. Just gotta do some leveling to try and get some of the 20F item drops (none as of yet) and try to hit LVL 130 or so before I take her on. Hopefully the battle is appropriately difficult and intense.
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On a serious note, Suika would have been great for 16F if I realized that she had her first attack hit with the power of a nuke, while it was cheap and fast and she can tank the hits.
That really was all I could do since Suwako got wiped. :V
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It doesn't seem like a lot of people realize that Suika has a WND Nuke available since I mostly hear mention of Aya being used to take care of 16F's Nature form. Curiouser and curiouser.
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It doesn't seem like a lot of people realize that Suika has a WND Nuke available since I mostly hear mention of Aya being used to take care of 16F's Nature form. Curiouser and curiouser.
I think you mean 18F.
And it's mostly because when you have characters like Iku that can buff ATK massively, Suika's ability to do so herself makes her pretty underwhelming. Aya can actually finish the NTR form off faster because of her absurd speed and low delay, and her damage won't even be that much lower per hit.
Don't get me wrong, Suika's not a bad character by any means; she can remove ally debuffs, apply speed debuffs, and hits decently hard. However, with a buff as large as hers, I'd expect her to do a lot more damage than she actually does.
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Just a question: Been grinding on 20F for an hour or two now, and I'm up to Reimu 124, but I've yet to see a single item drop. Do the increased drop rates for the specific items increase to 5.0% automatically for the first drop, or does it have to be Postgame to gain the benefit of the increased drop rate? Just seems odd that I haven't gotten a single drop yet, but eh, It's probably just Murphy's Law laughing at me. :derp:
Also, does the wiki's recommendation of LVL 130+ seem about right, or do you think I could go ahead and take on the final boss now? Just wondering.
EDIT: I'm also noticing more Aya competence on the nuking side now. it's been getting better, as her ATK actually more or less matches Youmu's now in similar gear at the same exact level, with Youmu going ATK-focus w/smattering of HP/DEF and Aya going SPD/ATK (not sure on my exact %'s). Just kind of interesting in that regard.
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At the cost of a slower speed, she makes an effective MND tank with ATK based formulas. As a result, she moves slower than, say, Suwako, and they would both be sent to 0%.
For efficient switching in and out, that would mean another tank would have to be even slower, thus altering the altogether damage per round of the group.
In addition, her fastest attack has a rather bad ATK multiplier. Though it deals rather respectable damage for a tank if you spend the skill points for it and you have a group ATK buffer like Keine while she also buffs another nuker...
Keine group buffs, Suika self buffs low delay. Cue a damaging tank with somewhat low delay (though also low speed?). As a result, it seems she's better if you use a group buffer ala Keine or Renko rather than a single uberIkubuff. You also don't need to apply PAR resist gear in that fashion, I guess.
Edit: Actually, Suika has a faster base speed than Iku. :V
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Just a question: Been grinding on 20F for an hour or two now, and I'm up to Reimu 124, but I've yet to see a single item drop. Do the increased drop rates for the specific items increase to 5.0% automatically for the first drop, or does it have to be Postgame to gain the benefit of the increased drop rate? Just seems odd that I haven't gotten a single drop yet, but eh, It's probably just Murphy's Law laughing at me. :derp:
You are just unlucky. I've had similarly bad experiences with certain 30F drops. (30F is very similar to 20F in design.)
[quote[Also, does the wiki's recommendation of LVL 130+ seem about right, or do you think I could go ahead and take on the final boss now? Just wondering.[/quote]
You can probably take on the final boss now (Team Unappreciated beat her at about the same level as you are at now), but do take note that whether you can defeat her last form will depend on luck. Either she wastes her turn using nukes like normal, or keeps herself fully buffed and goes to work against your team.
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You are just unlucky. I've had similarly bad experiences with certain 30F drops. (30F is very similar to 20F in design.)
[quote[Also, does the wiki's recommendation of LVL 130+ seem about right, or do you think I could go ahead and take on the final boss now? Just wondering.
You can probably take on the final boss now (Team Unappreciated beat her at about the same level as you are at now), but do take note that whether you can defeat her last form will depend on luck. Either she wastes her turn using nukes like normal, or keeps herself fully buffed and goes to work against your team.
Heh, I see. I'll keep that in mind. At least the grinding is really easy when you can just buff with 18F and then slaughter with Suwako/Flandre/Youmu's nukes. Hehe.
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130 is a good level to take on the final boss. You still run the risk of getting obliterated by her keeping herself fully buffed and making you rage, but that happens even at a higher level. Either way 125-130 is like the perfect range to take it on. It won't be too easy but you can still be killed if you're not handling it right, so yeah.
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Well, *knuckles cracking*, time to try to beat me a final boss. It's go time! :V
EDIT: Well. At Reimu 128, I beat it on my first try. That's not to say it was easy, however. I rocked the first part of the fight pretty well, keeping significant buffs up thanks to Ran/Reimu mitigating any threats while I switched nukers in and out to keep up the damage. Suwako paralyzed the PHYS summon for the majority of the battle, and I relied on Alice's MAG debuff to keep the MAG summon under wraps. All went well, but the PHYS summon went down first. Managed to kill the MAG summon quickly afterwards, but the Support summon got of a DEF/MND buff, followed immediately by the SPD buff, right before I killed it, causing the boss to seque to Overflowing Natural Power already buffed.
Ouch.
From there, it still seemed good. I'd saved 18F's buff to Nuke her down really hard and fast. But right after I spent the buff...she Djinn Stormed. That plan ruined. At that point I was only down one person I think (Flandre got sniped the instant she hit the board, more or less, made a mistake there), and it was a grind to the finish. Couldn't really nuke her down before she'd kill me, so I was forced to cross my fingers and pray she didn't overbuff while I tried to whittle away at her, rebuilding my SP and defenses. Suwako was the MVP here, as her REC rate combined with her high dmg and fairly cheap nuke allowed her to do the vast majority of the dmg in the final form. To that end, I was incredibly cautious with her. Patchy was useless with her pathetic REC rate, Youmu got debuffed out the wazoo and was only useful for switching (-50% to everything, basically) but Reimu managed to keep recovering JUST ENOUGH sp along with Ran to keep everyone alive. In the end, Suwako finished her as my party basically was finally spent.
Ironically enough, I think that's how i beat all of the later on bosses. Came in for a run, had some bad luck, and just ground out the ending out of an incredibly bad scenario to win, while generally being underleveled for the battle.
All in all, it was an incredibly intense battle, which equals fun for me. :D
Now it's time to consider moving on to some of the Postgame while I prepare for the start of the school semester...
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Alright, I can't stand it anymore. I like Sanae too much as a character to use Minoriko over her. How should I build her to keep her similar to Minoriko in healing rates without making her squishy? I'm thinking MND/SPD with emphasis on SPD in skillpoints.
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I focused a bit on MAG early on and regret it now, as her formulas still seem strong enough to support little to no investment. I've been going pure MND since then to buff up her durability, and since she doesn't stay out on the battlefield long (she switches in and out for the most part) I don't miss the lack of SPD lvl. ups. I just make sure that she's slightly faster than my MT, Meiling, at all times.
EDIT: Btw, what order should I go around doing stuff in the Postgame + Plus Disk in? Start with Ver. 2 bosses? Boss rush? Seals? Maybe I should just trawl through the wiki and make a note of all of the level recommendations...
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Depends on how you're using Sanae. Since her SPD isn't that great, and her support spells have large delays, you can use her as a switch-in-and-out type character. If you do, raising SPD isn't important, and you can focus on both MAG and MND. If you want her to stay in for longer periods of time, SPD/MND is probably better. Even with MAG level bonuses, she won't be healing quite as much as Minoriko (who still probably spends her levels on MND).
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Alright, I can't stand it anymore. I like Sanae too much as a character to use Minoriko over her. How should I build her to keep her similar to Minoriko in healing rates without making her squishy? I'm thinking MND/SPD with emphasis on SPD in skillpoints.
I don't t hink it's possible for her to heal as well no matter how you build her. Her tradeoff is the great buff, and cleansing affect on her heal.
Anyway I'm pretty sure I did 50/50 something/mnd with Sanae on my first playthru, and she still seemed really easy to kill via spells. Of course, if you want to use her use her!
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You know, I just had the thought of using Mystia to turn Suika's self speed debuff into a good speed, attack, and defense buff.
Granted, her defense isn't great to begin with, but that ATK is still good for a MND tank.
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I don't t hink it's possible for her to heal as well no matter how you build her. Her tradeoff is the great buff, and cleansing affect on her heal.
Anyway I'm pretty sure I did 50/50 something/mnd with Sanae on my first playthru, and she still seemed really easy to kill via spells. Of course, if you want to use her use her!
See though, I'm not using Reimu this playthrough, so I need to have a solid healer. It's not a question of "if you like her use her" so much as "will she be able to keep up?"
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I suddenly get the idea of wanting to find the address to keep enemies permanently PAR locked :D
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I think she'd be more capable if she can maintain a Miracle Fruit on herself. Aside from boosting the output of her healing in both efficiency and speed...
Well, her defensive capabilities might match Minoriko's squishiness.
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For my next playthrough, I'll be going full-MAG Sanae, to be switched in and out by main tank Tenshi. It'll be part of my strange builds team, including ATK Sakuya, ATK Komachi, MAG Eirin, MAG Ran, and more. Basically, relying on characters who are normally not considered nukers to, well, nuke.
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Hmm, on a NG+ run, can anyone see any potential serious problems I might face clearing the game with this group:
Komachi, Kanako, Mystia, Rumia, Meiling, Mokou, Suwako, Nitori, Youmu, Keine, Renko, Reimu
I couldn't remember what the spoiler consideration rules were for this thread so I erred on the side of caution. :P Build-wise, Reimu/Keine/Renko
are going SP, Meiling
is going DEF, and the rest are focusing on their attack stats (with a mind to boss killing where people with two attack stats are concerned i.e. Suwako
) so far, but I've got plenty of time to change course since I've only gotten them to level 12 yet.
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For my next playthrough, I'll be going full-MAG Sanae, to be switched in and out by main tank Tenshi. It'll be part of my strange builds team, including ATK Sakuya, ATK Komachi, MAG Eirin, MAG Ran, and more. Basically, relying on characters who are normally not considered nukers to, well, nuke.
I'd wouldn't be too surprised if people don't use komachi as a nuker outside our little English community here. I mean when I first saw her, and knew any formulas and whatever I assumed she'd be a nuker with her good attack and poor defenses (minus hp). This was before I was aware of any defense ignoring attacks and whatnot. I opted not to use her though because I figured all those +dth effects probably came at a "less damage" price.
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Hmm, on a NG+ run, can anyone see any potential serious problems I might face clearing the game with this group:
Komachi, Kanako, Mystia, Rumia, Meiling, Mokou, Suwako, Nitori, Youmu, Keine, Renko, Reimu
I couldn't remember what the spoiler consideration rules were for this thread so I erred on the side of caution. :P Build-wise, Reimu/Keine/Renko
are going SP, Meiling
is going DEF, and the rest are focusing on their attack stats (with a mind to boss killing where people with two attack stats are concerned i.e. Suwako
) so far, but I've got plenty of time to change course since I've only gotten them to level 12 yet.
looks fine to me. There seems to be an heavy emphasis on atk-based attackers over mag though., it wont break the game but it might cause some frusteration at certain points.
why build for sp though? it's really needed early game yes, but early game is early game, and ng+ is a breeze with early game since you start off with 12 characters. And late game, you'll have more sp than you can possibly spend before a djinn storm/destroymagic/dead enemy, and all those level up bonuses into it just get wasted from then on.
You're aware that focus is capped as if your sp is 200 right?
Edit: Blah, sorry for double post, forgot I made the last one.
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looks fine to me. There seems to be an heavy emphasis on atk-based attackers over mag though., it wont break the game but it might cause some frusteration at certain points.
why build for sp though? it's really needed early game yes, but early game is early game, and ng+ is a breeze with early game since you start off with 12 characters. And late game, you'll have more sp than you can possibly spend before a djinn storm/destroymagic/dead enemy, and all those level up bonuses into it just get wasted from then on.
You're aware that focus is capped as if your sp is 200 right?
Edit: Blah, sorry for double post, forgot I made the last one.
Yeah, I figured out the focus cap bit last run. I'll probably switch the buffers to MND then, since you make a good point, the only character I ever had SP troubles with in my last run past around 12F was Reimu, and even then it was only at the end of a drawn-out boss fight like 18F or 20F.
I was worried a bit about the ATK/MAG slant too, but so many of the MAG-based nukers feel underwhelming to me for some reason - Patchy's too slow, Kaguya
is a little underwhelming on targets where her DEF/MND ignoring isn't actually all that meaningful, Alice
's best nuke hits against DEF which defeats the purpose of getting more MAG nukers, Master Spark doesn't fit my play style too well because it can't be fired as frequently as Suwako or Nitori
's nukes (via switching), Yuyuko
runs out of SP too easily and thus falls prey to the same problem (at least in the main game), and that's most of the high-power MAG nukes I think.
I suppose if I get really desperate on high-DEF bosses I could always build up Shikieiki
on the side, though as long as they aren't packing huge MYS resistance Rumia
should be able to do well as long as I keep her alive (heh).
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At last, this journey has come to an end.
Team Unappreciated vs. ***WINNER***
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcxRr8YnyeM)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC6OEQqyslw)
The fight went remarkably smoothly, with only one death that was mostly my own fault. The only stage 3 attacks he had time to use were Magical Tempest and that 30 million HP recovery move, which made it much easier. He did end up recovering about 60 million HP throughout the course of the fight, so it did take quite a while to finally bring him to his knees.
Once again, Reisen was my 2nd best damage dealer, after Nitori. She and Iku are the ones that have most exceeded my expectations throughout this playthrough. In fact, I personally found Reisen to be a fine MAG nuker, sort of like a magic-based Remilia, except with less durability but better speed and capable of debuff effects. However, she really needs enough SP to spam Grand Patriot's Elixir, so she probably won't be able to pull it off effectively until the higher floors. By the Plus Disk, though, her SP issues are pretty much gone.
Rumia's also a fine nuker, especially with buffs. Moonlight Ray's formula is better than Spring Like Suiga's, which is already arguably better than the formula for Silent Selene. She just has durability issues.
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IWell, her defensive capabilities might match Minoriko's squishiness.
>Minoriko
>Squishy
lolwat? Minoriko should have a wonderful MND, assuming you're putting level bonuses into MND, which is highly recommended for her.
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>Minoriko
>Squishy
lolwat? Minoriko should have a wonderful MND, assuming you're putting level bonuses into MND, which is highly recommended for her.
Seriously. My Minoriko's taken 0s from fire attacks before I'd raised her FIR affinity, because her MND is just that good.
Anyway, Sanae test run is go. At 8F I'm not really noticing too much of a difference between the two. Since I'm using Eirin for my tank though, the high delay on Sanae's heals isn't so significant. Either way, if I can manage to use her as a suitable dedicated healer/buffer without her delays killing off my team, I'll be happy.
...though I just realized, this means I'll need to use Renko for MND buffs. Dammit.
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For my next playthrough, I'll be going full-MAG Sanae, to be switched in and out by main tank Tenshi. It'll be part of my strange builds team, including ATK Sakuya, ATK Komachi, MAG Eirin, MAG Ran, and more. Basically, relying on characters who are normally not considered nukers to, well, nuke.
This is kinda how I built my party, everyone else was boosting their offensive stat, save for Meiling, Tenshi, Renko and 18F.
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This is kinda how I built my party, everyone else was boosting their offensive stat, save for Meiling, Tenshi, Renko and 18F.
Yeah, same here.
18F fight's been a bitch for me when everyone gets 1-2 shot even with buffs at Reimu lv103.
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Seriously. My Minoriko's taken 0s from fire attacks before I'd raised her FIR affinity, because her MND is just that good.
I've only just started working on my Minoriko's MND stat in the past few levels:
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_Minoriko45.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=Minoriko45.png)
I can get it a bit higher with equipment though since she isn't wearing anything that boosts it.
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I've only just started working on my Minoriko's MND stat in the past few levels:
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_Minoriko45.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=Minoriko45.png)
I can get it a bit higher with equipment though since she isn't wearing anything that boosts it.
Level 30, pure MND, no equips whatsoever.
[attach=1]
Yeah, her MND is great.
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Can her MND hit 2700~ by Eientei? If so, then it is good enough for me to consider using her :V
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Can her MND hit 2700~ by Eientei? If so, then it is good enough for me to consider using her :V
Well, you'd have 20 more levels to go before that fight, so..
...easily with equips, close without I'd say.
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Seriously. My Minoriko's taken 0s from fire attacks before I'd raised her FIR affinity, because her MND is just that good.
2x damage multiplied by 0 is still zero. Affinity multipliers are applied after damage.
Although I dunno how my Minoriko is ending up with low MND growths. :V
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2x damage multiplied by 0 is still zero. Affinity multipliers are applied after damage.
I suppose I phrased that poorly; I meant her affinities haven't even been an issue yet because her survivability's so good.
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Minoriko's MND is pretty amazing. By the time I was fighting ***WINNER***, her MND was well over 170k, and was actually higher than my Meiling's DEF.
The whole affinity issue is why Iku's affinities on my team aren't that high; she doesn't need them to be. I mean, she took a mere 10k damage from Kedamagrammaton's Rankain with just 300 SPI affinity.
Also, at level 3 I did nearly 1,000 damage with Shikigami nuke against Meiling boss fight. It seriously is almost like a magical Megawatt Linear Gun if the stars align for it.
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Well, as I finished clearing the areas of 20F that opened up after the postgame and writing down the location of each Ver. 2 Boss, I managed to get each of the random drop items (I was missing 3 when I started, ended up with 2 Divine Spirit Barriers, already had the Flower, and got Armads/Scourge in 2 straight battles, woo).
So now I'm sitting pretty at Reimu LV 135. Should I level some more, or do you think I'm fine to start the Ver. 2 touhou bosses? Or should I do Boss Rush first, and if so, what level should I be for that? I understand that it's the same exact bosses as before, but I still don't know what level I should be to confidently beat all the bosses without worrying about losing a character or two, since that would make the last bosses much harder. Should I get to 140-150 or so?
I've only beaten the 1st Bloodstained Seal boss so far though, so I may see about beating Beast of Centaurus first before I do either of those. Not sure how tough the next Seal boss is...
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Beast of Centaurea is easy, just make sure he never gets a turn in his second form (it has 200k HP). You can take him with little problems at your level.
I'd go for the Ver. 2 bosses first. Most of them aren't that hard if you can already beat the final boss. Only a few of them are more difficult than that, but I took them all down easily with Reimu in the 140-150 range before.
Boss rush I'd usually wait until lvl 150+, but it's probably doable earlier. Bloodstained seals will definitely be the hardest star for you to get.
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Beast of Centaurea is easy, just make sure he never gets a turn in his second form (it has 200k HP). You can take him with little problems at your level.
I'd go for the Ver. 2 bosses first. Most of them aren't that hard if you can already beat the final boss. Only a few of them are more difficult than that, but I took them all down easily with Reimu in the 140-150 range before.
Boss rush I'd usually wait until lvl 150+, but it's probably doable earlier. Bloodstained seals will definitely be the hardest star for you to get.
Yeah, I just beat the Beast. He got off one attack in breakaway mode (Patchy hit 100% when he did, so he got off one attack and then Patchy interrupted his series of 6 attacks for the kill.
I guess I will probably go ahead and start the Ver. 2 bosses. Mayble I'll grab a couple levels first though; even Meiling seemed to be strong (ofc, I came into the fight w/out really preparing, so eh). Reimu 136 right now, so I'll hit 140 and then start the slaughter.
EDIT: Btw Mascot, could you get me a copy of that Minoriko picture? The one I have right now is the soul-sucked one (where she looks like she's been through hell or something :V). That one is just SOO much better.
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Mascot
teehee
It's actually Shizuha, not Minoriko. I replaced her with her sister because I happen to like her a lot more as a character. But sure, here you go. (http://www.mediafire.com/?8z8dvswgkstet5x)
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Is Rumia in desparate need of more MND? [Y/n]
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_Rumia44.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=Rumia44.png)
I'm thinking yes.
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Is Rumia in desparate need of more MND? [Y/n]
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_Rumia44.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=Rumia44.png)
I'm thinking yes.
Ooh, I like that pic.
Also, :C
y
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Ooh, I like that pic.
Also, :C
y
I did a terrible job extracting it (the left ring finger was too small when I removed some of the "halo" that outlined her, jaggies on top of the left arm, etc.). Part of that is because I hardly do any of that stuff, part of it is because I used Paint.NET which is rather...restrictive when it comes to tools. In hindsight I shouldn't have been as aggressive since some of the darker parts of the outline that stood out on a white background or the transparency pattern aren't really noticeable in-game.
Images for the game and the original. (http://www.mediafire.com/?k4vu944ajfbedvr)
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EDIT: Btw Mascot, could you get me a copy of that Minoriko picture? The one I have right now is the soul-sucked one (where she looks like she's been through hell or something :V). That one is just SOO much better.
I personally use the Minoriko image from this set. (http://www.mediafire.com/?fnymy2vlde2)
And yes, that's a hot Rumia picture.
Personally, I skimped on giving Rumia MND bonuses since I ended up using her as a switch in and out character in latter battles. I went full MAG with her level bonuses. But if you're thinking of keeping her in for Eientei and other earlier bosses, then yes, try to focus more on her MND.
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I feel tempted to alter some EXP growths and start a solo/duo save file. The question is, who would be a good candidate(s)?
Sanae + Okuu sounds like a fun one, but I'm not too sure about the actual effectiveness; defensive stats in particular have me concerned, and there's a major lack of debuffs. Same reason I'm not trying Patchy solo. 18F would probably work well due to varied elements, physical/composite, good stats all-around, and an amazing buff.
Also, I can already tell going into 9f that Eirin's not going to work as a tank. Her defensive stats aren't even coming close to keeping up, and her HP is the lowest of my entire active party. So much for that, looks like I'm going back to Tenshi (or 18f, but if I do that I'm swapping his art for Lily Black).
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Youmu/Yuyuko as a dynamic duo would be interesting... but they both tend to have huge SP problems so battles would like come down to Focus spam a lot.
Kanako/Suwako would be pretty cool to see. Kanako is beefy enough to work as a tank and provides magical damage while Suwako has PAR and physical nuke. It could work perhaps?
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Youmu/Yuyuko as a dynamic duo would be interesting... but they both tend to have huge SP problems so battles would like come down to Focus spam a lot.
Kanako/Suwako would be pretty cool to see. Kanako is beefy enough to work as a tank and provides magical damage while Suwako has PAR and physical nuke. It could work perhaps?
For a team like that I'd probably have to tweak SP recovery rates as well to avoid getting massacred before having enough SP to do anything.
Kanako/Suwako could probably work. Debuffs, PAR, both physical and magical attacks spanning a huge variety of elements...quite plausible.
Also, Aya + Iku.
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Also, I can already tell going into 9f that Eirin's not going to work as a tank. Her defensive stats aren't even coming close to keeping up, and her HP is the lowest of my entire active party. So much for that, looks like I'm going back to Tenshi (or 18f, but if I do that I'm swapping his art for Lily Black).
For Eirin, is that for main tanking or off tanking?
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For Eirin, is that for main tanking or off tanking?
Main tanking. It's pretty obvious her role is off tank, but I wanted to add a bit of a challenge to this playthrough.
...unfortunately, her defenses aren't good enough for primary tanking, so I dropped her completely and brought Tenshi back.
Also: can 18F work as a primary tank? I've honestly never used him before.
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Main tanking. It's pretty obvious her role is off tank, but I wanted to add a bit of a challenge to this playthrough.
...unfortunately, her defenses aren't good enough for primary tanking, so I dropped her completely and brought Tenshi back.
Also: can 18F work as a primary tank? I've honestly never used him before.
From what I've seen in my playthrough so far, I'd say yes. 18F's kind of like a Tenshi-lite; similar but not quite as good MND/DEF, with a greater HP stat to compensate. He's also much faster than Tenshi, which makes 18F great for switch-Nuking. I oftentimes have 18F and Meiling swap out in the MT slot, depending on the situation. Also, I LOVE how well 18F uses his SKP. :D
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From what I've seen in my playthrough so far, I'd say yes. 18F's kind of like a Tenshi-lite; similar but not quite as good MND/DEF, with a greater HP stat to compensate. He's also much faster than Tenshi, which makes 18F great for switch-Nuking. I oftentimes have 18F and Meiling swap out in the MT slot, depending on the situation. Also, I LOVE how well 18F uses his SKP. :D
Maybe I'll try him as my tank instead then.
With his art swapped for Lily Black, of course.
EDIT: Dammit why did I start building him as an attacker what the hell was I thinking. LOOKS LIKE YUYUKO'S THE BETTER TANK NOW
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I built him as an attacker once and regretted it once I got past floor 20. His stats weren't too far behind my other tanks, but he just was missing that little bit that investing in defensive stats would've brought. That being said, he off tanks well even with full attack, a lot like Remilia.
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I built him as an attacker once and regretted it once I got past floor 20. His stats weren't too far behind my other tanks, but he just was missing that little bit that investing in defensive stats would've brought. That being said, he off tanks well even with full attack, a lot like Remilia.
My current party is already loaded with characters that can off-tank well, it's a primary tank I want.
...if someone has a screenshot or something of his starting stats, I could just hack in a stat reset and start from scratch.
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My current party is already loaded with characters that can off-tank well, it's a primary tank I want.
...if someone has a screenshot or something of his starting stats, I could just hack in a stat reset and start from scratch.
Wiki?
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Base Stats
Standard Stats
Stat L1 Stat (Growth) Rating
HP 124 (16) A
SP 102 (16) B
ATK 83 (16) S
DEF 51 (10) S
MAG 62 (12) B
MND 51 (10) B
SPD 100 (11) A
EVA 2 (3) C
Ailment Resistances
Ailment Resistance Rating
PSN 15 C
PAR 15 C
SIL 15 C
DTH 15 C
StatDrop 15 C
Total 75 B
TP 2 F
SP Recovery 6% F
Elemental Resistances
Element Affinity Rating
FIR 163 A
CLD 169 S
WND 165 S
NTR 166 S
MYS 167 A
SPI 69 E
Total 899 S
Weighted 854 S
Level-Up Difficulty 144 F
Hurray for copy-paste.
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Wiki?
...
...I'm not having a good day today. :derp:
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Oops, that's no fun. At least you know how to hack it :V
I've been working through the Ver.2 character bosses myself, up to Flandre right now (just stepping through the database so I fight them in order of increasing levels). Up to LVL 153 Reimu too, which is nice, so I should be well able to start Boss Rush when I'm done here (although I'll have to go beat Maribel again when I'm done with that, as the Mask is the last item I need :derp:)
All of these battles have been pretty fun though; despite seeming very hard, I don't think I've yet to not win on my 1st try, interestingly enough. Probably the biggest difference maker besides allocating elemental resistances is the fact that just about every single Ver.2 character boss falls to a dedicated PAR-lock. W/Suwako to get the PAR started (at which time Reimu stops buffing and joins in) I've been able to make several boss fights that started very hard into jokes. Like Orin, who was hurting me quite bad until I got Suwako's PAR to stick in a down moment, and she never got to act again.
Fun times.
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Thank you Barrakketh, Axel. Crisis averted. :V
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Is hacking in a respec really that easy? Specifically, I'm wondering how the affects of level bonuses are stored. I mean, you can hack his visible stats to whatever he starts with, but say you did that after investing 100 levels into his attack, would his attack accurately rebuild itself as normal or would it build itself as if it has 100 attack bonuses more than really exist?
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Darn, first Ver. 2 boss to kick my butt. Yukari is actually nasty on the offensive this time around (although it didn't help that she sniped Ran before I could get her to start the party-wide buffing). I might grind a couple levels and boost my MND a bit for this...
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Is hacking in a respec really that easy? Specifically, I'm wondering how the affects of level bonuses are stored. I mean, you can hack his visible stats to whatever he starts with, but say you did that after investing 100 levels into his attack, would his attack accurately rebuild itself as normal or would it build itself as if it has 100 attack bonuses more than really exist?
...after comparing his stats to other characters post-leveling, I'm starting to see your concern.
Goddammit.
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Is hacking in a respec really that easy? Specifically, I'm wondering how the affects of level bonuses are stored. I mean, you can hack his visible stats to whatever he starts with, but say you did that after investing 100 levels into his attack, would his attack accurately rebuild itself as normal or would it build itself as if it has 100 attack bonuses more than really exist?
I imagine it would be even harder than that.
Not only do you get a +3% (pre equipment,skill level, level up bonus etc) per level to whatever stat you chosen, you also get a +4% bonus to *ALL* stats per level up..on top of their skill growth.
Try leveling up a character who is level 1 with no skillpoints. Their first level up will make sure their stats go up according to the wiki, but by level 100, you'll notice that all their stats, even with no equipment or skill levels start to grow at a far increased pace, even if it's a stat you never touched for level up bonuses >=)
edit: as for 18f's viability as a main tank. I dunno, I don't really see how Remi can't do better when her defensive stats are pretty much the same, but has much more hp, and more importantly, can easily keep her def/mnd up high with a certain skill of hers.
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I think 18f is file C33.ngd. Copy that from Save_NaN into one of the save# folders, and you'll have a level one char on that save slot. Then it's just a matter of knowing what level your current character is and editing in enough xp to lvl up. Remember to unequip 18f's items first though.
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I think 18f is file C33.ngd. Copy that from Save_NaN into one of the save# folders, and you'll have a level one char on that save slot. Then it's just a matter of knowing what level your current character is and editing in enough xp to lvl up. Remember to unequip 18f's items first though.
Glad I made a backup, that was actually Maribel
. Figured it out though, he's c31.ngd. Thanks, this works perfectly.
...or not, his TP and affinities are off.
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is there an easy way to make it so the music is the old stuff by default? I change it and save and it always reverts to special disk music once I relaunch the application. I tried changing the names of bgm.dxa to bgm 3, and vice versa (I imagine bgm is the original game, bgm2 is plus disk, and bgm3 is special disk)
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Glad I made a backup, that was actually Maribel
. Figured it out though, he's c31.ngd. Thanks, this works perfectly.
...or not, his TP and affinities are off.
Could you just hack those down to size like you tried with the other stats? I don't think those have any weird growth rates screwing with them, so it seems to me like it'd be accurate.
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Glad I made a backup, that was actually Maribel
. Figured it out though, he's c31.ngd. Thanks, this works perfectly.
...or not, his TP and affinities are off.
oops :blush: should have double checked before posting. You'll have to use the C31.ngd file from Pesco's fixed NG+ instead of save_NaN
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Could you just hack those down to size like you tried with the other stats? I don't think those have any weird growth rates screwing with them, so it seems to me like it'd be accurate.
That's true.
Alright, now we're back in business. :V ...I'm not sure that was worth all the trouble, lol.
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15F is bullshit. I can barely do anything because enemy parties like to wipe out characters before I can do much of anything. Am I really going to have to go grind on 14F just so I can even do 15F?
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Took a break from Ver. 2 bosses to do boss rush, and found it incredibly easy (was Reimu 154).
The only hard part was bashing my head against the wall against the Final Boss when I had no TP to switch chars (0,0,2,2) and all my guys out were defensive (Meiling, 18F, Patchy, Reimu) 'cept for Patchy, but ofc I'd been Djinn Stormed. So I was constantly waiting and focusing for SP, and crying whenever she Djinn Stormed again. Finally got Meiling killed and brought in Youmu, who brought the pain (and could actually focus worth a damn, yay!)
Glad you got the character working Esoterica, 18F should do you well up there, methinks.
...Now off to beat the Final Boss normally again so the game will give me my 3rd star...
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15F is bullshit. I can barely do anything because enemy parties like to wipe out characters before I can do much of anything. Am I really going to have to go grind on 14F just so I can even do 15F?
I found 15f more manageable due to the lack of golems, personally.
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15F I don't recall as being that nasty...Just be sure to have someone around to break through the Blackenmel's defenses (Patchy, or another character w/high defense/mind piercing formula or overwhelming dmg). If Tengu's outspeeding you is a problem, you should be able to compensate for that a bit in equips. Otherwise, I think you should be able to nuke most of the other enemies...
Just take your time, and don't accidently run into the Great Stamp if you value your life :V
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Need to take down the Tengu on 15F? Just bring Cirno, raise her SPD as much as you can, and go nuts with Diamond Blizzard. You don't even need to raise her ATK; the Tengu have 0 PAR resistance, so they'll be stuck in place as the rest of your party picks them off every time. Paralysis is great on this floor; Spectres, Sorceresses, and Magic Crystals all have 0 PAR too. Only 3 enemies can resist the mass paralysis, so you can customize the rest of your active party to take these enemies down.
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oops :blush: should have double checked before posting. You'll have to use the C31.ngd file from Pesco's fixed NG+ instead of save_NaN
Say...is this how we can make 4 Flans for FOUR OF A KIND?? XD
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Say...is this how we can make 4 Flans for FOUR OF A KIND?? XD
I wondered that myself, but if you make 3 copies of Flan's file (C25.ngd) and rename them to C26.ngd say, the TP, resist/affinity, and stuff carry over but nothing else does. I only spent a little bit of time experimenting back in the "Reisen is a useless bunny" era though, so there might be a way. A00.ngd has toggles for acquired members, B00/B01 is inventory, DS01-30 are floors obviously, and E00/F00 I don't know (or remember). I doubt editing any of this stuff will increase Flan content.
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Say...is this how we can make 4 Flans for FOUR OF A KIND?? XD
That would be so painfully boring.
Basically you do nothing but starbrow break the entire time, because casting anything else will nerf your attack gauges so t hat having 4 is no different than having 1.
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I wondered that myself, but if you make 3 copies of Flan's file (C25.ngd) and rename them to C26.ngd say, the TP, resist/affinity, and stuff carry over but nothing else does. I only spent a little bit of time experimenting back in the "Reisen is a useless bunny" era though, so there might be a way. A00.ngd has toggles for acquired members, B00/B01 is inventory, DS01-30 are floors obviously, and E00/F00 I don't know (or remember). I doubt editing any of this stuff will increase Flan content.
When I have time, I will most definitely look over these files.
That would be so painfully boring.
Basically you do nothing but starbrow break the entire time, because casting anything else will nerf your attack gauges so t hat having 4 is no different than having 1.
It's the novelty of having 4 Flans. Coupled with the editting method above, you can have someone else's spells but with Flan's stats and build.
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That would be so painfully boring.
Basically you do nothing but starbrow break the entire time, because casting anything else will nerf your attack gauges so t hat having 4 is no different than having 1.
But...but... Flan-chan~
Really though I just wanted to see if it was possible to duplicate/edit character skills, not just stats
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So, should the Four of a Kind party contain any healing or buffing spells? I'm currently in the process of replacing Mokou and Okuu on a fresh NG+ file, which leaves one more Flan left. If the "Ha ha, old chap! raw damage" theme stays, I'm replacing Orin (...which I should probably do anyway, can you imagine how amazing her composite spells would be on Flan? Hell, even Cat's Walk would be stupidly good). Replacing Rumia with one would provide both healing and absurd damage (Moonight Ray with Flan's MAG? Step aside, Nitori) while keeping with her FIR/MYS theme.
I still feel like this team would be so much more fun with buffers though.
EDIT: For some reason, this isn't working.
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I'm not understanding why, if you're trying to make a set of hilariously damaging Flans, you're using magical nukes to do it. Sure, Flan's magic is good, but it's her attack that's (quite literally) bloody amazing. What about handing Flan a Linear Gun? Last Judgement? Kimontonkou + Flight of Itaden? I see these being better ideas than magical nukers.
(Rereading your post, I guess you're trying to keep with Flan being fire-based over raw damage, but blah, I'll leave this post here anyway.)
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I'm not understanding why, if you're trying to make a set of hilariously damaging Flans, you're using magical nukes to do it. Sure, Flan's magic is good, but it's her attack that's (quite literally) bloody amazing. What about handing Flan a Linear Gun? Last Judgement? Kimontonkou + Flight of Itaden? I see these being better ideas than magical nukers.
(Rereading your post, I guess you're trying to keep with Flan being fire-based over raw damage, but blah, I'll leave this post here anyway.)
Yeah, I was just trying to keep a theme. Obviously replacing characters like Shiki or Nitori would make her holyshitamazing, but the attacks wouldn't exactly make sense with Flan :V
EDIT: I removed the cooties from 18F.
[attach=1]
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Well, after packing up for college today I starting kicking some Ver. 2 butt again. Down to just 18F's Ver. 2, and I gotta say, ouch, ~4m HP.
At least I can design specifically for each form and own them. I imagine Suwako might even be able to one shot the WND form :V
EDIT: Beat it! Whoo! Up to four stars now :)
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Yeah, I was just trying to keep a theme. Obviously replacing characters like Shiki or Nitori would make her holyshitamazing, but the attacks wouldn't exactly make sense with Flan :V
EDIT: I removed the cooties from 18F.
(Image removed)
Why has nobody done this to add, say, Mima or Shinki? All things considered, the spell names sound like something a final boss would have.
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Why has nobody done this to add, say, Mima or Shinki? All things considered, the spell names sound like something a final boss would have.
Believe me, I've wondered the same things multiple times. I was considering replacing Marisa with Mima, personally.
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Why has nobody done this to add, say, Mima or Shinki? All things considered, the spell names sound like something a final boss would have.
Fudge up the names of the CharaGraph, pack it up and let people get confused ftw :V
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Ouch. While I've had some difficulties with some of the Ver. 2 and Bloodstained Seal bosses prior, none of it was really that major...that is, until I got to the Dual Hibachis. I only managed to get about 400-500k dmg done to both as I was being ripped to shreds, left with only my "tankish" types. It seemed to me that my survival simply relied on the luck of the draw with the attacks they chose to use...
I guess what I'm saying is, do you all have any advice for me to help me beat the Dual Hibachis? Here's my stat line:
Reimu LVL 162
Meiling, 18F, Ran, Reimu, Aya, Patchy, Alice, Flandre, Youmu, Iku, Suwako, Sanae
Would bringing in Kaguya for this battle a good idea to take advantage of Hourai Barrage's ability to damage both Hibachis?
Any advice is welcome!
Thanks!
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Being able to damage both is nice but it shouldn't really influence the fight heavily IMO. Just be aware that they cast needle parade every 5 turns (or was it 7? Whatever it's very predictable). So make sure you have people like Marisa or patchy hiding somewhere safe beforehand. It's also important to try and damage them fairly evenly until about 800k damage each, then buff up as much as you can and kill one, then burst the other as fast as possible. If you do more than 1million to either, dual funeral washing machine is unlocked on a similar rotation as needle parade, and it is probably a guaranteed game over. So make sure the second one you finish is the element that you have better dps against.
I honestly don't worry about counting hp so much. I just focus on the predictable needle parades, and playing more aggressively once I notice they are in berserk mode (when they always spam stronger spells like ether flare).
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ATK Komachi was here, HP Komachi is a loser.
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Ouch. While I've had some difficulties with some of the Ver. 2 and Bloodstained Seal bosses prior, none of it was really that major...that is, until I got to the Dual Hibachis. I only managed to get about 400-500k dmg done to both as I was being ripped to shreds, left with only my "tankish" types. It seemed to me that my survival simply relied on the luck of the draw with the attacks they chose to use...
I guess what I'm saying is, do you all have any advice for me to help me beat the Dual Hibachis? Here's my stat line:
Reimu LVL 162
Meiling, 18F, Ran, Reimu, Aya, Patchy, Alice, Flandre, Youmu, Iku, Suwako, Sanae
Would bringing in Kaguya for this battle a good idea to take advantage of Hourai Barrage's ability to damage both Hibachis?
Any advice is welcome!
Thanks!
It looks like you have a lot more physical nukers than mag nukers in your line up.
Kaguya speeds up the battle a great deal, and with her I was able to do it underleveled.
The most important thing to know about the battle: after dealing 1m damage to either Hibachi, on its next turn it'll drop its hp down to 1, and after 4 turns it'll proceed into Berserk mode, which will likely destroy your party. If you happen to deal over 1m to both Hibachi at the same time, the one who gets its turn first will go to 1 hp. Killing either Hibachi will send the other into Berserk mode as well.
Kaguya's ability to hit both Hibachi greatly helps manipulate dealing with both of them. Ideally you sink the one that you can do less damage to (in your case probably the physical hibachi) over 1m (with Kaguya, you can evenly damage both of them, and tip one over 1m). After that, nuke the second one out with your physical attackers, then kill the original one with just one attack (as it'll still be sitting with 1 hp). Then, all you need is to kill the other HIbachi within 4 turns. (again, if you used Kaguya, you'll only have to do about 500k damage, and you can also kill both Hibachi in one spell)
If you do something like 18f 16f (nuker) Kaguya, you can use World Shaking Military rule, nuke twice, refresh with 16f, swap 16 in and out with 18 and nuker and then use 16f's refresh one last time, provided your party can withstand an attack from both hibachis. 4 Hourai Barrages will probably be enough to send one into critical if you have a mag Kaguya, and a 5th can kill both depending on Kaguya's level.
If you don't choose to use 16f (as I see she's not on your lineup), you'll probably need some more levels as you won't be able to Hourai Barrage quite as quickly. If the attacks are dealing too much damage before they go Berserk then leveling some more is probably your best option.
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Thanks for the advice guys. I generally do understand the basic strategy behind the fights before I give them a shot though, thanks to the wiki. That being said though, I didn't realize the power attacks were on a rotation, which a look at the translated database informed me of specifically. So big thanks for that. :derp:
I figure I could probably do it with 16F in the lineup, I just like getting a fairly consistent 12 person lineup and dealing with the occasional issues that crop up, although I do occasionally switch it up. I think I'll do much better now regardless, I'm going to give it one more try with my general party before I start bringing in specific problem-solvers (Kaguya and 16F, I'm looking at you!). Since I went ahead and cleared a bunch of trash and fully explored what I could in 21F, I've gained a few levels, so we'll see how I fare now.
But yeah, the 16F strategy you mentioned is exactly what Para demonstrated in his Bloody Papa video, IIRC, where he beats it despite being underleveled by abusing that move. I might just consider bringing in 16F to my permanent party at some point, considering my love of fragile nukers and the fun she might be able to bring to them. :V
Anyways, thanks again. Time to give it another go around...
EDIT: Gah, I keep dying. I don't really want to use 16F (although I have Kaguya now...), but these guys still just keep tearing me to shreds too quickly for me to fight it. The biggest thing that hurts is that I can't get any serious buffs up before one or both of Ran/Reimu get sniped. Part of the problem is I'm forced into a cycle of healing w/Reimu or else other guys die, and if I choose to buff instead I always end up losing someone critical before they can be rejuvenated. Urgh.
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EDIT: Gah, I keep dying. I don't really want to use 16F (although I have Kaguya now...), but these guys still just keep tearing me to shreds too quickly for me to fight it. The biggest thing that hurts is that I can't get any serious buffs up before one or both of Ran/Reimu get sniped. Part of the problem is I'm forced into a cycle of healing w/Reimu or else other guys die, and if I choose to buff instead I always end up losing someone critical before they can be rejuvenated. Urgh.
That's the problem I've been having against 18F on my first file. I'd say "level moar", but going from Reimu 90 to Reimu 103 hasn't changed a thing for me.
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That's the problem I've been having against 18F on my first file. I'd say "level moar", but going from Reimu 90 to Reimu 103 hasn't changed a thing for me.
Heh, I can understand that. When I beat 18F I got a good set of attacks in the first form, which made the rest of the battle easy as I was able to properly buff up before the boss broke out more powerful moves. I might just keep exploring more of the Plus Disk (on 22F now) rather than grind or anything though.
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To be honest, because I did it pretty underleveled (I hadn't begun clearing 21f yet) I had very similar problems. Only my main tank team (18f 16f Reimu Ran) could actually handle the attacks, provided they had buffs up (you can use 18f's megabuff for your defensive team if you can't get Reimu's barrier up quick enough). The other major problem I had experienced was being outsped.
Incidentally, almost all the very dangerous attacks are Row Targeted. I don't know if that'd help you at all, but I thought it was interesting.
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Yeah, I do seem to realize they're row targeted, but surviving to get buffs up generally means I lose Offtanks :V
Anyways, it's not really a big deal to wait. I don't think I need the 5th star for a decent bit, do I?
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Don't think you need the 5th star until 27F, but I can't quite remember. No hurry to beat them.
Remember that Needle Parade and Dual Funeral Washing Machine are the two most powerful attacks they use, but the former is physical while the latter is composite, so Hibachi #2 tends to be a bit weaker than Hibachi #1. When I took on the Ver.2 of the duo, I was able to tank Hibachi #2 for over a dozen attacks because of this. Hibachi #1 tends to OHKO more often with its attacks, but it has fewer multi-target and more row and single-target attacks. If you're lucky, you might be able to kill it if it keeps sniping just one person per turn. However, once it gets to Needle Parade, you'll have a much harder time surviving, especially since its ATK increases considerably when berserked. Hibachi #2's Needle Parade never gets any stronger when berserked, thankfully.
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Hey, the sound didn't desync this time. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDBNDh9ionw)
Also 18F is an amazing tank. And those related videos suck, fuck you Youtube.
For some reason it's hiding 360 and 480 from me too :C 240 looks like crap and the HDs take forever to load, boo.
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Hey, the sound didn't desync this time. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDBNDh9ionw)
Also 18F is an amazing tank. And those related videos suck, fuck you Youtube.
For some reason it's hiding 360 and 480 from me too :C 240 looks like crap and the HDs take forever to load, boo.
240 through 1080p are available for me, and 720p is streaming just fine (I can't get faster than 3 Mbit DSL here so I usually pause 1080p videos to let them buffer a bit, but that varies from video to video).
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So I made this Youmu because I didn't like the one in Nightfall's set.
(http://imgur.com/MGZiz.png)
Mediafire link (http://www.mediafire.com/?ci2fhf5i492e24t)
EDIT: Marisa ver
(http://imgur.com/Dekuj.png)
Mediafire link (http://www.mediafire.com/?ykyn82jh8c2h4js)
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Neon Genesis? I swear, those suits look like they are from Neon Genesis.
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Touhou Meikai Kenshi Yoyomu 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASJZmdCr6I)
I guess it's a touhou parody OP of "Makai Tenshi Djibril 4", which looks like an H game or something. The vid was on walfas, and when I saw the picture on the artist's pixiv, I knew I had to make a Youmu. She just looks so goofy!, and talk about a touhou girl who needs to take it easy...
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First time i've seen youmu look that goofy ever!
but where is myon :(
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Her hair clip is a tiny little myon! So cute.
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Got to Eiki, still no grinding, just about killed her but she focused too early.
Seriously, +disk doesn't seem to be much of a grindfest at all anymore, my respect for this game has actually grown.
I just wish the new music in special disk wasn't pretty inferior in every area.
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Hey, the sound didn't desync this time. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDBNDh9ionw)
I can't quite make out who one of your party members is when you go to switch out Patchy, Kaguya?
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I can't quite make out who one of your party members is when you go to switch out Patchy, Kaguya?
Looks like Alphes style Renko
Also I finished the plugsuit Reimu but I'm not as happy about it as the other two. Black hair on black background, Youmu's ribbon, the pose, and her giant freakin bow made it difficult to keep her sized correctly while still showing off her, uh, "assets."
(http://imgur.com/H6xW3.png)
(http://imgur.com/WESES.png)
I made a horizontal flip so she looks better in battle/conversations but it's not that great for the Gensokyo hub.
Mediafire link (http://www.mediafire.com/?5p25cxsg7s6ob5z)
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I can't quite make out who one of your party members is when you go to switch out Patchy, Kaguya?
If you're talking about the one on the left that I never used, it's Aya.
In future battles I'll probably at least use her to buff Sanae's speed at the start; I only remembered to give 18F a Love Machine as far as planning out party changes for this fight went.
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Reimu's "assets" are her armpits though...
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Managed to take out
Tenshi
with Reimu at 49. I tried it a few levels before then (no NTR stacking) and things didn't go so well.
It took a few tries for Thunder Drum Shot's debuff to actually stick, but MVPs for the fight were Iku
, Nitori
, and Suwako
. She didn't get to do anything after the first Focus other than to re-Focus again, but otherwise stayed PAR locked and I never had to deal with Violent Motherland :V I guess I got off easy later in the fight, in the beginning PAR wasn't wanting to stick to her either.
Did Sanae's
Foe a little before that, and I got the impression I could have probably beat it a good bit earlier. I did start concentrating my skillpoints more instead of spreading them out among everyone which had a noticeable improvement for some characters (especially Meiling). I lost one character to stupidity (thought I healed her before switching out, brought her in to a Flowing Hellfire with insufficient health to live through it), the other was a sacrifice to the opener (Sorry, Chen).
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Well, I cleared up through Floor 23 now, getting to Reimu 181 in the process. I think I should be able to beat the hibachis now :V
What level should I shoot for to fight the Final Boss ver. 2 at?
EDIT: Beat the dual Hibachis, finally. Wasn't too bad, although I didn't keep a good idea of their health in mind so got caught by surprise by the berserk. Up to Reimu 182, which I don't think is enough for any of the next bosses (sigil guardians, final boss ver.2) yet. Guess I'll continue exploring the floors, on to 24!
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Looks like Alphes style Renko
No, Renko is rather obvious and has brown hair, not that pitch black :V
If you're talking about the one on the left that I never used, it's Aya.
Ooooh, ok. Also, who is 18Fs pic replaced with in that vid? Lily Black?
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No, Renko is rather obvious and has brown hair, not that pitch black :V
Ooooh, ok. Also, who is 18Fs pic replaced with in that vid? Lily Black?
Indeed.
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Well, I've been exploring 24F (and yikes, there was a bit of a difficulty spike in the randoms here) and I accidently bumped into the Flame Tyrant. And Ha ha, old chap!, he's as easy as I've heard when he's PAR-locked. He got off an opening attack and nothing more, as Suwako/Reimu kept him locked down the entire battle while Patchy (and her unending SP) + Youmu killed him slowly but surely. Woo for winning at Reimu 184.
EDIT: Does anyone know what areas, if any, he unlocked on Floors 21-24, since I know I had a few areas there blocked off by sigils...
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Well, I've been exploring 24F (and yikes, there was a bit of a difficulty spike in the randoms here) and I accidently bumped into the Flame Tyrant. And Ha ha, old chap!, he's as easy as I've heard when he's PAR-locked. He got off an opening attack and nothing more, as Suwako/Reimu kept him locked down the entire battle while Patchy (and her unending SP) + Youmu killed him slowly but surely. Woo for winning at Reimu 184.
EDIT: Does anyone know what areas, if any, he unlocked on Floors 21-24, since I know I had a few areas there blocked off by sigils...
one of the sigils on floor 21 by the entrance. Which leads to a bloodstained seal boss v2..Which is way beyond anything you'll ever be able to handle until way after you defeat ALL the sigil guardians..so no need to worry about it.
I THINK it also unlocks one of the ones southeast in floor 22 as well. one of them requires the sigil guardian on floor 25, the other requires one from another one I forget. one leads to a flower to unlock the floor 25 optional (who is also harder than all the sigil guardians, though not by nearly as much as the bloodstained seal is), and the other one leads to some chests including skillpoints, and an arturos gem (though the chest itself says "king arthur").
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Turned out it was the one leading to the last of the 3 items I needed to fight
Yuka
and recruit her.
Btw, is 190 looking good enough enough for the Final Boss ver. 2? Is she easier or harder than the other sigil guardians?
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Turned out it was the one leading to the last of the 3 items I needed to fight Yuka
and recruit her.
Btw, is 190 looking good enough enough for the Final Boss ver. 2? Is she easier or harder than the other sigil guardians?
I honestly don't know, she's pretty on-par with with them on my last playthru.
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Roughly 230 should be good for FInal Boss Ver.2 if I remember right.
Really, once you can manage to take out the top add in the new v2 fight, you should be golden. Yay Kaguya.
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Hrm. Guess it's time to grind a bit then, as I'm not quite ready for the sigils and have basically hit my limit in floor exploration (Floor 25 seems a bit too nasty and would block off access until I beat the guardians anyways, so i guess I'll go get a 10-20 levels from F24 until I hit 200-210.
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I don't recall the exp for floor 24, but floor 20 is actually better in terms of raw exp than floors 21-23 oddly enough. It may also be faster than 24 depending on how quickly you're clearing the trash.
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24 is better than 20 from what I've seen, the higher enemy density + better exp rewards make it nice, and the only truly annoying/difficult enemies are the lantern ghosts b/c of their minor paralysis resistance. I can outspeed the strategists with Aya, Kaguya takes down the beefcakes and the high defenses enemies, and Suwako/Patchy come in to sweep the lantern ghosts while Reimu uses her PAR every battle. No probs, I just retreat after the rare battles where their attacks get through to ravage me :V
EDIT: Grr. I'm Reimu 210 now, and ready to try the Baal Avatar on for size, but his Demon-Slashing Dance keeps killing my Off-Tanks (Ran, 18F). I suppose I may have to use Youmu there, as she might be the only one with enough HP and defense to survive it despite being one of my physical Nukers.
EDIT 2: After losing to him several more times, and reallocating equipment to improve my DEF over MND on my Off-Tanks, I think I've realized the main issue I have with this boss: I physically can't keep up in the damage race once it starts. He always seems to run over a nuker or two, which leaves me without enough juice to make it to the end of his life bar. Grrrr.
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24 is better than 20 from what I've seen, the higher enemy density + better exp rewards make it nice, and the only truly annoying/difficult enemies are the lantern ghosts b/c of their minor paralysis resistance. I can outspeed the strategists with Aya, Kaguya takes down the beefcakes and the high defenses enemies, and Suwako/Patchy come in to sweep the lantern ghosts while Reimu uses her PAR every battle. No probs, I just retreat after the rare battles where their attacks get through to ravage me :V
EDIT: Grr. I'm Reimu 210 now, and ready to try the Baal Avatar on for size, but his Demon-Slashing Dance keeps killing my Off-Tanks (Ran, 18F). I suppose I may have to use Youmu there, as she might be the only one with enough HP and defense to survive it despite being one of my physical Nukers.
EDIT 2: After losing to him several more times, and reallocating equipment to improve my DEF over MND on my Off-Tanks, I think I've realized the main issue I have with this boss: I physically can't keep up in the damage race once it starts. He always seems to run over a nuker or two, which leaves me without enough juice to make it to the end of his life bar. Grrrr.
Even after having a nuker-heavy party this playthru, I have to say that the level reccommendation for that boss still seemed pretty low. The 22 floor sigil guardian is a joke in comparison
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Para's video of that boss makes it seem like just a long grind if you gear up to resist the status effects.
But yeah, I've sort of been coming to that conclusion myself. I got a couple more levels by finishing up my exploration of 25F (all that's not blocked off right now, at least) and discovered that while it's still not easy, I can consistently takes most of the enemy groupings, so I might be able to grind faster if it becomes necessary. I'm going to go give that 22F guardian a few shots, and if I can beat him I'll surely be strong enough after exploring the newly opened up areas. I hope. :derp:
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Yeah, 22F boss is really just one long, tedious fight with little danger but lots of annoying status effects and that SP drain move. It's long but never interesting, because nothing really changes even when the boss gets low on health. It doesn't even use any self-buffs to make itself more dangerous, like 25F sigil guardian does.
In fact, it's so boring that I've been staring at my video of it for quite a while now, stuck trying to think of dialogue to fill 11 minutes of a boring boss fight. That's why I haven't updated my Let's Play with it this week, because I'm still not sure what to write.
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Yeah, 22F boss is really just one long, tedious fight with little danger but lots of annoying status effects and that SP drain move. It's long but never interesting, because nothing really changes even when the boss gets low on health. It doesn't even use any self-buffs to make itself more dangerous, like 25F sigil guardian does.
In fact, it's so boring that I've been staring at my video of it for quite a while now, stuck trying to think of dialogue to fill 11 minutes of a boring boss fight. That's why I haven't updated my Let's Play with it this week, because I'm still not sure what to write.
Hehe, I can understand that. I just fought him, with no specific preparations beyond assigning 4 people to eat the Destroy Magic (18F, Aya, Youmu, and Iku for me). Beat him my 1st try too, only deaths coming to the Stygian Ferry when it was used on my non-tanks w/only 10-20 DTH resist. Was pretty pathetic all and all, but I did have a beautiful DPSer in Kaguya and her 500-700k Hourai Barrages (only 300-400k unbuffed like it was at the end, since the sniped characters were Ran and Iku).
I guess now I can go explore everything that's opened up and then go say hi to Baal Avatar again after that.
Honestly though Para, I wouldn't even bother doing dialogue for that fight, you can probably just glance over it in your Let's Play and move on to the Fire boss that you beat w/out PAR on that dare. As you said, that fight was completely boring, so there's not much to say. ;)
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I believe a proper dialogue befitting the ease of the fight, and the nerdiness demands for a lets play would be something like
"LOL ZZZ EZ!"
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FINALLY beat that mofo, Reimu 215. Heavily customized my gear to maximize my defenses, and finally properly executed my strategy. I used Ran/Iku to buff up my Nukers, mainly keeping those that were fragile (Kaguya, Suwako) out of harm's way for the first half of the battle while my slower/tougher nukers (Youmu, Patchy) slowly damaged him until he got right before the breaking point. I abused Reimu also for the buffs to maximize my defenses going into the final portion where I knew I would not have time to buff. Another thing to note: I had Aya at like 80% SPD buff going in also, so that she could help me guys jump in and out and lightning speed, increasing their lifespan in the face of the steadily increasing speed and power of the boss.
In the end, the boss used a couple silence clouds while in berserk mode (yay!) and Suwako/Kaguya among others wreaked havoc with full buffs and SPD buffed switchers getting them in and out. I sacrificed some of the now useless characters (Iku, for example) to soak a hit in the first slot and save Meiling's HP for the later more dangerous hits. From there, I ended up beating him with a good part of my party left alive. Ironically enough, this was the one battle where I had someone sniped at the beginning (double slash to 3rd Rank Alice killing her). 18F was a champ as usual, starting off the berserk mode with Military Rule and then managing to survive the entire onslaught, assisting in switching my nukers in and out. Thank god that boss is dead :V
TL;DR;
Baal Avatar finally dies; may he rest in pieces
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Halp, I'm supposed to be playing the game but I can't stop making these things!
(http://imgur.com/XDVQ6.png) (http://imgur.com/XDVQ6.png)
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oh my god that chen
oh my god that's incredible
i can't stop laughing oh god i can't breathe
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No party is complete without this, the mightiest of all Chens
Mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/?ommlyoc5r6m2w20)
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Ooh, I like the second Alice on the bottom.
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Hmm, time to fight the last of the sigil guardians: Agastobrauma
I'm wondering right now though: If properly inoculated against status effects, do you really need to be that much stronger than what was needed for the other sigil guardians? I figure I can take him on now if I'm prepared, from the looks of it.
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Holy crap is that cowgirl Yuka? You win the internet my good friend.
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Once you've packed them all up, spookedmoose, you should upload them somewhere.
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Hmm, time to fight the last of the sigil guardians: Agastobrauma
I'm wondering right now though: If properly inoculated against status effects, do you really need to be that much stronger than what was needed for the other sigil guardians? I figure I can take him on now if I'm prepared, from the looks of it.
It's not much harder than the other Sigil guardians (maybe even easier than the Baal Avatar). You do need ailment resistance, and preferably some way of handling it when it uses Strengthen Jutsu. Debuffs are your friend here; it has horrible debuff resistance.
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It's not much harder than the other Sigil guardians (maybe even easier than the Baal Avatar). You do need ailment resistance, and preferably some way of handling it when it uses Strengthen Jutsu. Debuffs are your friend here; it has horrible debuff resistance.
Yeah, I noticed in your video that Discarder was perfect for destroying that boss, both for its element and for its debuffs. Problem is, my party's only access to debuffs is in the form of Alice. I might need to bring in another character if I want to take on the boss at a lower level, because he was ripping through me at my current lvl (216-218, somewhere in there).
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Once you've packed them all up, spookedmoose, you should upload them somewhere.
Seriously, I want the second Alice on the bottom.
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I finally cleared 12F, and I have to say that 51 felt like a low level to beat it.
Kaguya
was able to one-shot several characters depending on which attack she used and who was out, and I got wiped a couple of times by the two remaining bosses using their "ultimate" attacks simultaneously (Mind Starmine might be the preferred attack to get hit by, but when it's followed by an Astronomical Entombing it feels like the correct course of action is :colonveeplusalpha:).
Luckily I managed to have both of them paralyzed when she was finished off and was able to keep Eirin
mostly locked down for the time she had left. Also, I didn't use Tenshi
, who I haven't even leveled up since recruiting :V
What's the current spoiler policy for characters? I think most people are too anal-retentive about it and only really see 16F, 18F, and 20F as "real" spoilers, but I need a list so I can automate spoilering character names in posts because it makes posting here annoying.
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Seriously, I want the second Alice on the bottom.
Sorry! I didn't see your earlier post or I would have upped it last night. Link to just the GitS Alice Mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/?tbasbvi613arguf)
Once you've packed them all up, spookedmoose, you should upload them somewhere.
I didn't think anyone else wanted them, I've just been making them because... uh touhou addiction I guess. Except Chen of course, because who wouldn't want that Chen? Do you guys want me to include the source pictures along with the charagraphs? Because it dramatically increases the file size, and if nobody wants them anyway I'll just up the edits.
Here's what I've got done so far (note Missile Nitori to commemorate her upgrade)
EDIT: Updated Link: Mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/?m6tj28uow5o69s7)
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18F and possibly 16F are the only ones anyone really cares about. Most people here know about the two people with SMT Debilitate and Overflowing Natural Power or whatnot, so I don't think it's necessary to spoiler that.
Aside from that, you either know ahead of time what characters are in the Plus Disk portion or... Well, you haven't gone far enough to need to look up character growths to plan ahead.
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Sorry! I didn't see your earlier post or I would have upped it last night. Link to just the GitS Alice Mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/?tbasbvi613arguf)
Awesome, thanks.
Now I have to start using Alice again. :derp:
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Aside from that, you either know ahead of time what characters are in the Plus Disk portion or... Well, you haven't gone far enough to need to look up character growths to plan ahead.
To be quite honest, you don't really need to look most of those up until you actually get the characters and if you don't scroll around too much it's possible to not get spoiled too much.
That, and character growths tend to be somewhat misleading. While conventional wisdom says that you should focus your points on a character's naturally strong stats, in practice what you see most people recommending is to focus on one, maybe two stats for a lot of characters that aren't going to be in either the first or second slot. For instance, Nitori gets ATK, ATK, and some more ATK. I hope new players reading this thread are managing things to have her switched out before the enemy gets its turn :V
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Speaking of builds, Alice should be pure MAG, right? It should probably be obvious, but after hearing about pure MND Patchy my world feels flipped upside down. :derp:
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Probably depends mostly on if you have alternative nukers and how many. But I rekon Alice is pretty safe to spec either way. Just don't expect decent damage against endgame bosses using anything but return inanimateness.
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Or when using Return Inanimateness against anything not weak to fire, for that matter. Around the end of the maingame I start noticing her damage falling behind, and in Plus-Disk her output just seems awful compared to my other choices :\ S'why I'll replace her after the Yuka fight, where she should be useful due to FIR weakness.
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Even on non fire weak enemies I find her damage using return inanimateness to be pretty satisfactory for how beefy she is. Just don't expect her to be doing atk-based nitori or yuugi damage. I mean it wont impress anybody but it's very viable to beat the game with relative ease at regular levels IMO.
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I fought Agaustrobauma for like 12 minutes until I lost ;_;
Reimu lv222 sounds a bit low, doesn't it? I want Keine D:
I wonder if Final Boss v2 would be easier. EDIT:Got to Berserk mode... barely :\
Also, while I don't use Rumia's healing particularly often, it's a godsend when I do need it. I'm glad I succumbed to my desires and threw her back in my party.
EDIT:Beat Agastobrauma after a half-hour long fight. I didn't get the drop, and it's an amazing drop... ;_; I'm so conflicted.
sigh. I'll take the win. All 4 guardians beaten at Reimu lv122 or lower :3
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So uhh.. I just got wiped out by Kedamaggatron on my first turn when it casted quantom whatever form. despite having a dth effect of only 50 supposedly, it dth'd my whole party with 32 dth resist...uhh.. so I tried again.. and it happened again. wtf? seriously.
edit: pawnt.. never casted it once. Seriously though ever since I got special disk dth effects have just seemed broken.
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I fought Agaustrobauma for like 12 minutes until I lost ;_;
Reimu lv222 sounds a bit low, doesn't it? I want Keine D:
I wonder if Final Boss v2 would be easier. EDIT:Got to Berserk mode... barely :\
Also, while I don't use Rumia's healing particularly often, it's a godsend when I do need it. I'm glad I succumbed to my desires and threw her back in my party.
EDIT:Beat Agastobrauma after a half-hour long fight. I didn't get the drop, and it's an amazing drop... ;_; I'm so conflicted.
sigh. I'll take the win. All 4 guardians beaten at Reimu lv122 or lower :3
How'd you deal with the damage output in that fight? I'm only Reimu 218 myself, and when I kitted myself out with MND buffs and Status Effect Resistance gear he was still doing ridiculous dmg to me b/c I was underleveled. Was there something you did specifically to get around the limitations of your lower lvl? One thing that would probably help me at least would to bring some debuffs though...
EDIT: Btw, I've been thinking about dropping Patchy b/c her fragility is becoming a major hindrance, despite a hefty MND stat, not to mention she's too slow. It even makes it annoying to switch her in and out she's so slow... I also want another "staying in" Nuker to supplement Youmu. I'm also lacking debuffs in my party. Think it would be a good idea to bring in Reisen as a replacement for Patchy?
EDIT 2: And if I do use the bunny, how should I LVL her? She's still lvl 1 right now, for reference.
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I brought Cirno back in for this fight, it was INCREDIBLY helpful. I gave her three plus-disk HP boost items and didn't bother raising her skill levels, she had enough HP to never get 0hkoed and with her speed levelups she was pretty fast too. Didn't even bother with a MAG debuffer since Renko is the only good one, and I don't have her.
The damage was a lot, yeah, I had to get a lot of use out of Reimu/Yukari buffs and all four of my healers (Reimu/Rumia/Meiling with Ikubuffs are great, and then Minoriko is always), and I switched out Youmu for Cirno so all my attackers had good MND.
Iku died about halfway through which extended the fight a bunch.
And yes, I don't like Patchouli, her resists are too bad for Ikubuffs without several equips and she gets rolled too easily, and her damage isn't even super amazing later on, not to mention the SPD. Reisen from Parallaxal's videos is very good, I'd say she's a great choice. I'm personally going to use Maribel like Reisen, but that's more from liking her more.
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So uhh.. I just got wiped out by Kedamaggatron on my first turn when it casted quantom whatever form. despite having a dth effect of only 50 supposedly, it dth'd my whole party with 32 dth resist...uhh.. so I tried again.. and it happened again. wtf? seriously.
edit: pawnt.. never casted it once. Seriously though ever since I got special disk dth effects have just seemed broken.
Well, if you use a hypothetical equation that Parallaxal posted over on the image board:
For example, if a spell has a DTH value of 50, and my character has a DTH resistance of 30, then the chance of instant death occuring would be 50 * (100 - 3*30)/100 = 5%. Is this correct?
I ask because if the DTH resistance is just subtracted from the DTH chance, then I have no clue why Minoriko just got hit by Instant Death from Shikieiki's Magical Hellfire even with 30 DTH resistance.
That would put the DTH resist needed to completely protect yourself against it at 34, though it happening to your entire party at once is strange unless the game does some really weird shit like calculating the chance of success at a given resistance and applying it to every character with the same resistance value (you all fail, hahahaha!).
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EDIT 2: And if I do use the bunny, how should I LVL her? She's still lvl 1 right now, for reference.
When I used her on Team Unappreciated, I just gave her MAG for every single level up. Her defenses aren't too bad if you just keep her at 80%-ish buffs, which she should have no problem doing with all that extra SP at your level (she stayed in almost the whole battle for me and kept herself fully buffed at all times). For equipment, I went with things that raised both MAG and SP, or all stats at once (since they get compounded thanks to her buff). Her speed should already be better than pretty much any other character's you've got so long as she keeps herself buffed anyway. Discarder works great on Agastrobrauma because it happens to be weak to fire. You should still put some skill points into her if you plan on using her for a while, as her stats do need the assistance.
Come to think of it, Alice spamming Seeker Dolls would be pretty good against this boss as well, if only to help you survive. I had a really easy time with this boss just because I kept its MAG at negative buff levels for pretty much the whole fight.
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When I used her on Team Unappreciated, I just gave her MAG for every single level up. Her defenses aren't too bad if you just keep her at 80%-ish buffs, which she should have no problem doing with all that extra SP at your level (she stayed in almost the whole battle for me and kept herself fully buffed at all times). For equipment, I went with things that raised both MAG and SP, or all stats at once (since they get compounded thanks to her buff). Her speed should already be better than pretty much any other character's you've got so long as she keeps herself buffed anyway. Discarder works great on Agastrobrauma because it happens to be weak to fire. You should still put some skill points into her if you plan on using her for a while, as her stats do need the assistance.
Come to think of it, Alice spamming Seeker Dolls would be pretty good against this boss as well, if only to help you survive. I had a really easy time with this boss just because I kept its MAG at negative buff levels for pretty much the whole fight.
That's similar to what I was thinking. And yeah, I'm planning on her becoming a fixture in my party, to keep the spread of ATK/MAG nukers even and to give me more beefy nukers for the faster bosses (similar to how you use Reisen and can afford to use Mokou/Orin with Unappreciated, that'll give me Alice, Reisen, and Youmu). It also means I can debuff for once! So Reisen will be getting plenty of SKP, considering how well she can make use of just about all of it :D
That would put the DTH resist needed to completely protect yourself against it at 34, though it happening to your entire party at once is strange unless the game does some really weird shit like calculating the chance of success at a given resistance and applying it to every character with the same resistance value (you all fail, hahahaha!).
Hrm, I've been operating under the assumption the entire time that 50 is the resistance needing to an ailment for 100% resistance. If that's true, I can spread my resist gear around in a more liberal manner, which would be very nice...unless that formula only applies to DTH resist, that is.
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It only applies to DTH resist (if that's how it works, that is), other ones have 100% chance to hit reduced by Resistx3, so 34 is invulnerable.
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It only applies to DTH resist (if that's how it works, that is), other ones have 100% chance to hit reduced by Resistx3, so 34 is invulnerable.
On the other hand, the formula seems to break at 34 because at no point after that threshold can the chance of success be positive. But if you assumed it was straight subtraction (Effect - (3 * DTH resist)), boss Yuyuko's SFN would still have a 50% chance of success with 50 DTH resist (Yuyuko's natural value, and also the immunity cap for bosses), and a normal value of 34 DTH resist would be 98% successful. ***WINNER***'s Wand of Destruction has an effect of 1000, which is pretty much in "Up yours!" territory since you'd need 334 DTH resist to not get wiped.
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On the other hand, the formula seems to break at 34 because at no point after that threshold can the chance of success be positive. But if you assumed it was straight subtraction (Effect - (3 * DTH resist)), boss Yuyuko's SFN would still have a 50% chance of success with 50 DTH resist (Yuyuko's natural value, and also the immunity cap for bosses), and a normal value of 34 DTH resist would be 98% successful. ***WINNER***'s Wand of Destruction has an effect of 1000, which is pretty much in "Up yours!" territory since you'd need 334 DTH resist to not get wiped.
I really doubt that DTH just works by straight subtraction. I've had Minoriko die to a DTH-50 move when she had 30 DTH resistance, and I've had Meiling survive Stygian Ferry with 34 DTH resistance when Stygian Ferry has DTH-300, according to the database.
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I really doubt that DTH just works by straight subtraction. I've had Minoriko die to a DTH-50 move when she had 30 DTH resistance, and I've had Meiling survive Stygian Ferry with 34 DTH resistance when Stygian Ferry has DTH-300, according to the database.
I was just mentioning that both don't perfectly work unless 34 is really a hard cap, though that does make me wonder why the hell the developer even bothered with such high DTH effects in the first place. The people I've seen complain all have party members with < 34 DTH resistance, so they wouldn't be truly immune anyway. The only strange thing about it is that it hit everyone who only had a 5% chance of not resisting on the same spell, though luck can certainly be crappy like that.
I suppose if higher DTH effects really do something, perhaps they are still reduced by your DTH resistance by a different formula and then added after the rest of the formula, basically giving a piercing effect to DTH. I suppose the easiest way to test this would be to have someone patient get four characters with 34 DTH and have them repeatedly get hit by Yuyuko's SFN. She's near a waypoint, isn't she?
EDIT: Speaking of Stygian Ferry, there should really be a warning in the wiki about the Eye of Twilight enemies on what I think is the right side of 11F if you're going back through there to fight Tenshi. If I had better data on where exactly you can encounter them I would edit it myself, but those bastards caught me off guard :ohdear:
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I'm convinced that any and all theorizing to how dth effects work since special disk is void CUZ ITS BORKDED!!!
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I suppose if higher DTH effects really do something, perhaps they are still reduced by your DTH resistance by a different formula and then added after the rest of the formula, basically giving a piercing effect to DTH. I suppose the easiest way to test this would be to have someone patient get four characters with 34 DTH and have them repeatedly get hit by Yuyuko's SFN. She's near a waypoint, isn't she?
I tried your suggestion out for a while on 30F against Yuyuko Ver.3. After 8 or 9 hits from SFN, no one in a party with exactly 34 DTH resistance died. SFN had no trouble killing someone with 32 DTH, though. It seems hitting 34 makes a big deal, compared to falling just a few points short.
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When I used her on Team Unappreciated, I just gave her MAG for every single level up. Her defenses aren't too bad if you just keep her at 80%-ish buffs, which she should have no problem doing with all that extra SP at your level (she stayed in almost the whole battle for me and kept herself fully buffed at all times). For equipment, I went with things that raised both MAG and SP, or all stats at once (since they get compounded thanks to her buff). Her speed should already be better than pretty much any other character's you've got so long as she keeps herself buffed anyway. Discarder works great on Agastrobrauma because it happens to be weak to fire. You should still put some skill points into her if you plan on using her for a while, as her stats do need the assistance.
Come to think of it, Alice spamming Seeker Dolls would be pretty good against this boss as well, if only to help you survive. I had a really easy time with this boss just because I kept its MAG at negative buff levels for pretty much the whole fight.
I just managed to beat Agastobrauma with my 1st try at Reimu 223 (having lost previously around ~215). Just did a bit of grinding while I installed stuff on my new 360. :V
Reisen was useful, although she got killed by a Magical Hellfire I think (not DTH either, just straight dmg at 60% or so buffs). I used Iku as a tank like in your vids and it worked great, meant I could constantly pass out buffs (hell, I think this was the only time I've ever seen Iku run out of SP!). Aya did a bunch of dmg to the boss, Suwako switch-nuked for a similar amount of dmg, and Kaguya either Hourai Barraged or boosted Reimu to pump out timely heals/barriers. It was a fairly tactical fight, the only scary part being when he strengthened his magic one time post-Reisen death (the only death too). Mystia was <3 her also, she helped a bit w/poison (no clue on dmg) and a lucky early PAR that helped me get my initial defenses up.
All in all, an improved setup with an improved lineup for the fight and a handful of levels made the fight from "Oh god, the dmg is still too high" to not too bad at all.
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So, after losing to Suwako seven or eight times in a row and completely losing motivation to continue the game last time, I decided to restart a playthrough soon.
Does anyone have any advice(s) on spending skill points? It's one aspect of the game I'm having problem understanding, as I just threw them on whatever I felt like on my last runthrough (it's the main reason why I'm restarting).
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Incoming theorycraft wall of text on the spending of skill points. Not from me, I'm busy and I cheat in my playthroughs :V.
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There is no real proper way to spend them. I suggest measuring by skillpoint cost and not skill level though. While it's good to favor "main" stats somewhat like nitori's attack, you shouldn't neglect the other stats. I like to keep all the other useful stats at about 1/2 of the big ones (in terms of cost). Except for REAL bad ones like patchy's def. Which get less of an investment (leaving it at 0 is silly though, are you REALLY going to miss out on 3000 skillpoints for 20 skill levels when you make that much in 1 fight?).
In any case, skill levels are important, but it's really doubtful that's why you couldn't beat suwako... The game is just plain hard compared to most JRPG's.
About eyes of twilight, they spawn in the area accessible by the stairs south 1 "block" from the 9f entrance to 10f, east a few paces than north (so the stairs just east of that starting area) and the stairs leading to the "all switch". Even if you opt to go west from that 11f entrance past the orb lock area, they are still an issue. I do not think they are anywhere in the 10f area leading to tenshi. Tj
They are like a half of 11f area spawn only.
I'd kill to find an area in 27f where liliths spawn more often =p.
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I do not think they are anywhere in the 10f area leading to tenshi.
I meant 11F, heading to Tenshi. Unless there's another route I didn't notice, you have to go through the right side of 11F (the stairs down to 10F is fairly close to the Patchy event needed to fight Yuyuko) because the way to her from 10F would be blocked by a blue barrier when the switches are all off.
So, after losing to Suwako seven or eight times in a row and completely losing motivation to continue the game last time, I decided to restart a playthrough soon.
Suwako was a bitch the first time I fought her, which was before I had even cleared 8F. Mishaguji-sama was capable of wiping out everyone not named Meiling, and that assumed Meiling was at max health. NTR affinity gear would have helped, but I was lacking that. In the end, I think I had mapped out 9F before trying again and she was easily doable.
Does anyone have any advice(s) on spending skill points? It's one aspect of the game I'm having problem understanding, as I just threw them on whatever I felt like on my last runthrough (it's the main reason why I'm restarting).
Don't waste points on evade, don't waste points on character stats that aren't going to do anything. Most characters use either MAG or ATK for their abilities, so don't spend points on the wrong one. Some characters have composite attacks (uses ATK and MAG, is resisted by both DEF and MND) like Reimu, but since her group heal only uses MAG you shouldn't be boosting her ATK at all except through skill points when it's cheap to do so.
Some characters might have abilities that use ATK and some that use MAG, but odds are you'll probably be wanting to focus on one or the other...I see no reason to not pick ATK for Suwako considering that her MAG based nukes are pretty weak and other characters are better suited for the job. For boss use (where there is usually a single target) she has an ATK based NTR element ability that is a better pick than Mishaguji-sama. That leaves her CLD nuke, which is the point where I'd say that the trade-offs aren't worth it.
When you can afford the skill point cost, try to get affinities for the characters you're using to 100 if they are below that. Higher is better, but when their affinity is <100 they take extra damage from attacks of that element.
Some characters have attacks that won't be terribly impressive unless the enemy is weak to them, but have other uses. Iku's nukes don't deal great damage compared to some characters but two of them reduce an enemy's DEF, letting your physical attackers do considerably more damage to them. If your characters are equipped so that they are immune to PAR, she can buff their ATK and MAG by 72%. Buffs are more valuable than you might think, because they are applied after your equipment and skill points. An item that gives you +40% ATK is basically like another 13 SP into a stat, not a 40% boost to the overall value.
For instance, my Nitori currently has 1897 ATK. Two +30% ATK items bring that up to 2217, or a 320 point improvement. With Iku's Thundercloud Stickleback, her ATK becomes 3262, or a 1365 point improvement. If I gave Nitori just one 30% ATK item, with Thundercloud Stickleback her ATK is then 3538.
At lower levels I've been neglecting SPD, but that's mainly because the base values are so low that it takes quite a few points to get a visible improvement.
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Resized Wriggle_girl, and Mima_v1
Recolored & resized Youmu_swimsuit because the first one looked awful
I can't stop making these things :(
Mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/?m6tj28uow5o69s7)
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Uhh... I haven't read this on the forums yet but has anyone defeated Maribel with Team 9?
and I would've thought quite a bit of people would've done it.
here are the roles
Rumia: Heal and Debuff
Cirno: Tank
Mystia: Nuke
Wriggle: Debuff
The team would be quite effective since Rumia's Demarcation heals a decent amount while everyone else can paralyse and do damage,
Cirno would keep herself from dying with White Album
Mystia can cure status debuffs and turn them into buffs
Wriggle can poison and paralyse
so... if someone could try and do this and see if it's possible
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Uhh... I haven't read this on the forums yet but has anyone defeated Maribel with Team 9?
and I would've thought quite a bit of people would've done it.
here are the roles
Rumia: Heal and Debuff
Cirno: Tank
Mystia: Nuke
Wriggle: Debuff
The team would be quite effective since Rumia's Demarcation heals a decent amount while everyone else can paralyse and do damage,
Cirno would keep herself from dying with White Album
Mystia can cure status debuffs and turn them into buffs
Wriggle can poison and paralyse
so... if someone could try and do this and see if it's possible
Pesco already beat the main game with Team 9, if not all 30 floors.
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Rumia: Heal and Debuff
Cirno: Tank
Mystia: Nuke
Wriggle: Debuff
You got 3/4 of those wrong, for the record.
Rumia can't debuff. She's also a half-decent MYS nuke.
Cirno can't tank that much; she'd need White Album for survival to even be a factor. Her role is to speed debuff/PAR.
Mystia you got right.
Wriggle doesn't 'debuff' either. She is, however, far and away the best tank out of the four (Honestly if you built her for it she could probably be a main tank candidate as you'd be surprised what she can stand up to) and poison deals way more damage than you'd think.
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Speaking of Mystia, how would you all suggest leveling her? Right now, I've done something like 60 pts into SPD, and the next 150-160 levels split between DEF/MND. Her role is to Song in boss battles, and assist Reimu in PAR-locking at the start of random encounters.
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I built her pure ATK and used her for nuking.
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I actually give her ATK and SPD (mostly ATK), as her damage output is pretty good. She's fast enough to act and switch out before the boss's stronger attacks, so I don't put as much effort into her defenses. Using her for pure support isn't bad either, though.
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Any word on a fixed new game + file?
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You got 3/4 of those wrong, for the record.
Rumia can't debuff. She's also a half-decent MYS nuke.
Cirno can't tank that much; she'd need White Album for survival to even be a factor. Her role is to speed debuff/PAR.
Mystia you got right.
Wriggle doesn't 'debuff' either. She is, however, far and away the best tank out of the four (Honestly if you built her for it she could probably be a main tank candidate as you'd be surprised what she can stand up to) and poison deals way more damage than you'd think.
This is entirely correct. Rumia is your sole MAG attacker too.
Mystia's MCM is a far better sweeper in general because of non-element and delay compared to that other one that I hardly use (that's why I can't remember the name). In boss fights, if the boss can be hit by PAR, use her NTR sweep and hope it procs. The rest of the fight is just Dives until dead. Mystia's main stats should be Attack and Speed. She's not so glass cannon because her defences are better than Cirno's.
Any word on a fixed new game + file?
I believe the problem was people copying their ver2.04/6 SaveNaN file into ver 3. The problems with the cheat table can be fixed by adding 0001000 to the addresses.
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I believe the problem was people copying their ver2.04/6 SaveNaN file into ver 3. The problems with the cheat table can be fixed by adding 0001000 to the addresses.
Some problems are because of copying the older SaveNaN file, but I don't think that's the only problem. I've also had problems with starting a legit NG+ file (since I have beaten ***WINNER***) for some strange reason.
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I'm p sure the Save_NaN folder from a fresh v3 install has problems w/ base resists and whatnot, but I'm not at my computer to check right now.
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I'm working on getting a full clean save. Just takes time that I don't really have lately.
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This is entirely correct. Rumia is your sole MAG attacker too.
Mystia's MCM is a far better sweeper in general because of non-element and delay compared to that other one that I hardly use (that's why I can't remember the name). In boss fights, if the boss can be hit by PAR, use her NTR sweep and hope it procs. The rest of the fight is just Dives until dead. Mystia's main stats should be Attack and Speed. She's not so glass cannon because her defences are better than Cirno's.
I believe the problem was people copying their ver2.04/6 SaveNaN file into ver 3. The problems with the cheat table can be fixed by adding 0001000 to the addresses.
How would I add 1000 if that digit is a letter?
Instructions please. =/
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How would I add 1000 if that digit is a letter?
Instructions please. =/
learn 2 hexidecimal.
0123456789ABCDEF
If the value is F, it goes to 0 and the value to the left is increased.
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Uuu... I have another question, what's the easiest way to get a star after completing the game?
I've tried the Ver 2 bosses but I can't find them all and the Japanese Wiki isn't doing much help :ohdear:
could someone advise me what to do?
Ok now I need an easy way to farm Battle Points since im lazy
::)
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Uuu... I have another question, what's the easiest way to get a star after completing the game?
I've tried the Ver 2 bosses but I can't find them all and the Japanese Wiki isn't doing much help :ohdear:
could someone advise me what to do?
Look harder. (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou:_Postgame)
EDIT: Easiest way is probably recruiting all the non-Plus Disk characters.
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Look harder. (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou:_Postgame)
EDIT: Easiest way is probably recruiting all the non-Plus Disk characters.
Ver. 2 bosses is probably the way to go after that though, going into boss rush around 145-150 when it won't be very hard. IMO, at least.
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Just had a thought. Who would make the ultimate 4 member team, able to clear all 30 floors with just the 4 of them? Discuss.
Here's my input. First you would need an excellent tank. I vote China because not only can she heal herself, she can cure a few crippling status effects.
You would also need a dedicated healer. I vote Reimu as she can heal the entire party, has a party wide DEF/MIND buff, and can cause PAR for clearing trash.
You would also need a damage dealer that also has good survivability. Pure glass cannons won't cut it for this team. Not sure who. Nitori maybe?
The last member could be a second tank, a pure supporter, or another damage dealer with good survivability.
Overall the whole team needs good survivability as they can't exactly switch for someone else. Oh and an ok focus recovery rate.
Discuss.
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Just had a thought. Who would make the ultimate 4 member team, able to clear all 30 floors with just the 4 of them? Discuss.
Here's my input. First you would need an excellent tank. I vote China because not only can she heal herself, she can cure a few crippling status effects.
You would also need a dedicated healer. I vote Reimu as she can heal the entire party, has a party wide DEF/MIND buff, and can cause PAR for clearing trash.
You would also need a damage dealer that also has good survivability. Pure glass cannons won't cut it for this team. Not sure who. Nitori maybe?
The last member could be a second tank, a pure supporter, or another damage dealer with good survivability.
Overall the whole team needs good survivability as they can't exactly switch for someone else. Oh and an ok focus recovery rate.
Discuss.
I may still be working on my first playthrough, but I don't see how you could effectively do this. Some bosses would simply run over you because you would not be able to do enough damage fast enough to beat them in the damage rush, effectively forcing you to overlevel to the point that the challenge loses some of its edge, so to speak. I think you could do the main game with only 4 characters with smart play and only a couple of extra levels, due to the lack of DEF/MND ignoring attacks. This is all in my opinion, though.
Other concerns:
Have to worry about resistances for EVERY party member. Would be hard to raise resistances much beyond normal playthrough levels because sharing SKP between 4 instead of 12 people is still less efficient due to the way the costs increase.
Best damage dealers are too fragile or have a glaring weakness that would be exploited.
Tougher damage dealers are too slow in output for the damage races.
Inability to Switch-nuke makes the races even harder.
Roadblock Bosses (off the top of my head, main game):
Flandre: Can you keep up with her damage output? Could you damage her before she killed you with Laevateinn?
Orin: Endurance. Can you keep up with the knights and her without getting worn out?
Yuugi: Would be able to OHKO everyone. No replacements would be killer.
These are just a few that come to mind here.
Still, would be interesting to try to see how far you can go. I know I've seen some people finish some absolutely ridiculous challenges in ADOM, for example (beating the game at LVL1, shield-throwing, eternium man... there are some crazy good people at that game)
If I HAD to try a team though, I'd definitely bring Reimu for group healing/buffing, and her PAR move to help make it through floors. You'd need two damage sources, one PHYS, one MAG...or a defenses ignoring attack. Perhaps Shikeiki? for Last Judgement + PAR for trash. Tanking... Meiling most likely, HP increasing like in Team Unappreciated for the defense ignoring boss attacks, and the extra healing + status healing for emergencies. 4th character is more difficult to decide.
Those are my thoughts on the matter. :V
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Pesco did a Team 9 game using Wriggle, Mystia, Cirno, and Rumia. IIRC he cleared all 30 floors as well, so it's more possible than you think.
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I believe he also hacked it so he leveled up at 4x speed to help manage his patience. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this.)
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Huh, really? I had assumed that when Team 9 was mentioned that he had 8 characters + Nine ball. Well, I'd definitely be interested in hearing how he got around some of the limitations I was thinking of. I wonder how wrong I am... :derp:
EDIT: Ah, if he hacked his lvl-up speed that would be a way to get around the weaknesses of a 4-man team. I don't know about DDR, but my thoughts were more along the line of a team that was more or less around recommended levels, likely consistently a certain % or amount higher than the consensus. With serious extra leveling, most of my concerns can be mitigated....
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Pesco did a Team 9 game using Wriggle, Mystia, Cirno, and Rumia. IIRC he cleared all 30 floors as well, so it's more possible than you think.
Without using Cheat Engine? :V
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I think it was only 2x leveling rates. He also bumped up everyone's base TP to 20. Other than that I think that's the only things he edited.
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learn 2 hexidecimal.
0x012345678
0x9ABCDEF
If the value is F, it goes to 0 and the value to the left is increased.
fixt..
Sorry I had to, couldn't resist! >=P
4 man party
Personally I find Nitori to be a bit on the squishy side myself. But I don't think you really think that "the best" team to 4 man can't really be determined using conventional logic. Because by limiting yourself to 4 people only, you are REQUIRED to be over-level in order to win, and if you're over level, the rules kind of change sometimes. For example, 16f might be a better tank than China if you're over level. If you can keep the 4 non tanks alive with Reimu's Aoe heals, then chances are an over-level tank wont need a self heal like china does in order to survive either. And yukari can do much more for the team as a whole with spiriting away most likely. I'm not saying Yukari is the best bet, but I'm just giving an example of how being over level can really change stuff.
Flandre
I actually find Flan to be pretty easy as far as damage bosses go. 16F hits harder faster, and has the same amount of health pretty much. her "big nuke" has a suprisingly bad formula (when you fight her as an enemy), and doesn't actually take a whole lot to hit for 0.
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Btw I need more details on getting cheat engine to work with the special disk for when I get bored from grinding and I just want to f around for a bit.
What version do you need and does it work on the English or Japanese versions? I believe my English shows 3.01 and the Japanese shows 3.00.
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Btw I need more details on getting cheat engine to work with the special disk for when I get bored from grinding and I just want to f around for a bit.
What version do you need and does it work on the English or Japanese versions? I believe my English shows 3.01 and the Japanese shows 3.00.
Pesco keeps saying something about adding 10000 too all your addresses or something. I personally suggest you try playing around with using applocale, and not using it for Touhou labyrinth when you try the cheat editor. For me, it doesn't work if I use applocale, and it does work if I don't (Though I prefer applocale on when I'm actually playing).
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Pesco keeps saying something about adding 10000 too all your addresses or something. I personally suggest you try playing around with using applocale, and not using it for Touhou labyrinth when you try the cheat editor. For me, it doesn't work if I use applocale, and it does work if I don't (Though I prefer applocale on when I'm actually playing).
That really did not help. I don't even need applocale to play it and I don't have JP region settings on. I was asking does the table work on the English or Japanese version, and what version number is it for?
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That really did not help. I don't even need applocale to play it and I don't have JP region settings on. I was asking does the table work on the English or Japanese version, and what version number is it for?
did you try it? I KNOW you're not having problems with getting the game to work, but I'm just saying I actually am unable to get the cheat engine to work unless I intentionally do NOT run Touhou labyrinth WITHOUT applocale, maybe you have the reverse, I dunno *shrugs*. I'm nots aying it will work for sure, but it's worth a shot, and by the sounds of it you didn't bother trying.
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That really did not help. I don't even need applocale to play it and I don't have JP region settings on. I was asking does the table work on the English or Japanese version, and what version number is it for?
If you go to page 1 of this thread, you'll see two Cheat Engine table links. The "Cheat Table for Special Disc" version works for the English patched v3.01. I have no idea about the other one.
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I have now tried running the english 3.01 both with and without applocale under Japanese settings and I have tried adjusting the Skill point address by both 1000 and 10000, positive and minus. What am I doing wrong? Or is the cheat table broken?
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The way I like to do it is instead, to do a manual search for the Skill Point Pool (or something else easily searchable), then have the table recalculate all addresses based on the Skill Point address.
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I have now tried running the english 3.01 both with and without applocale under Japanese settings and I have tried adjusting the Skill point address by both 1000 and 10000, positive and minus. What am I doing wrong? Or is the cheat table broken?
I believe the problem is that you're using Vista, and both myself, Ghaleon, and Pesco are using XP. On my laptop that runs Win7, I have to adjust the cheat table by CE3A8C0. If you want, I can walk you through the process of finding out what value Vista users have to use (if it's different than Win7 of course)
EDIT: or what Krim said
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Both of you. How do I go about doing this?
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Both of you. How do I go about doing this?
Run Labyrith of Touhou, then load a save game. Double-click on the cheat table file (should be "Labyrinth of Touhou ver3 .CT"). In Cheat Engine select the Labyrith of Touhou process, and say "Yes" when it asks if you want to keep the address list. You should see a bunch of ?? or numbers that are obviously wrong for the various cheat values. Back in the game, go to the Magic Library and note your current skill point pool (I'll be using 15366 as an example, yours will be different). In CE type "15366" in the "Value" box, select "Exact Value" and "4 bytes" in the drop-down boxes, then press first scan. Ideally you should have only one result. Note the address of your result. Now, right-click on "skp pool" in the cheat list and select "Recalculate all addresses." Click the "Change to address" tab and type in the address of your result if it isn't already there. Click "Change" and now your values should be fine. Remember to save this fixed table so you don't have to do all of this again.
EDIT: If you more than one result from your scan, change the total Skill Points you have by spending some. Put your new amount of available skill points in the "Value" field of CE and press "Next Scan" (Not "New Scan", that will start everything over). Rinse and repeat until you have only one result.
EDIT2: If you could tell me the address of your single scan result that would be great. It'll save time the next Vista user has problems
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What if when we type in our SKP number we get no results whatsoever? I swear cheat table hates me. :V
EDIT: Or you adjust everything and still get wrong values. God I love how nothing ever works for me. 8D
Out of curiosity how would I use that Win7 offset? I know the order for hexidecimal is 0123456789ABCDEF but how do I add letters to numbers or vice-versa?
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What if when we type in our SKP number we get no results whatsoever? I swear cheat table hates me. :V
EDIT: Or you adjust everything and still get wrong values. God I love how nothing ever works for me. 8D
Out of curiosity how would I use that Win7 offset? I know the order for hexidecimal is 0123456789ABCDEF but how do I add letters to numbers or vice-versa?
You should have got something back from the scan, so something must be wrong (do you have admin access?). You can right-click "skp pool" in the cheat list and select "Recalculate all addresses. Then just paste CE3A8C0 into the field and click change. CE3A8C0 was the difference on my machine but it could be something else on yours, so good luck. As for working with hex values, you can use windows calculator (switch to scientific view).
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The SKP number never gives me anything either, so if I do something involving skillpoints, it's usually locking skill levels at 1 while counting how many levelups I put into it.
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Apparently older versions of CE don't work well with LoT, so make sure your CE is at least version 5.6.1!
Mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/?m6tj28uow5o69s7)
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I can only see sample v3... But that Rumia is lovely.
That aya would be good too but...I dunno, the wings make her look majestic, but her pose is goofy, kinda clashes IMO, it's still nice though.
Edit, oh that's Alice.. I thought for a second might be but the hair-do and hair thing made me decide rumia. Doh.. Anyway it's a good one. I like the Prismatic Tenshi too.
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Pesco did a Team 9 game using Wriggle, Mystia, Cirno, and Rumia. IIRC he cleared all 30 floors as well, so it's more possible than you think.
I believe he also hacked it so he leveled up at 4x speed to help manage his patience. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this.)
Team (9) of Wriggle, Mystia, Cirno and Rumia only. Levelup speed was 4x and initial TP adjusted to 18 (Mystia had 18 base anyway). It was very doable due to hurroverlevel and twinking out affinities early.
I believe the problem is that you're using Vista, and both myself, Ghaleon, and Pesco are using XP. On my laptop that runs Win7, I have to adjust the cheat table by CE3A8C0. If you want, I can walk you through the process of finding out what value Vista users have to use (if it's different than Win7 of course)
EDIT: or what Krim said
This does indeed sound like the best answer. Gonna have to put a note that my cheat tables are XP-only :<. The add 0001000 fix worked for some people but I never asked what OS they were using.
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I can only see sample v3... But that Rumia is lovely.
That aya would be good too but...I dunno, the wings make her look majestic, but her pose is goofy, kinda clashes IMO, it's still nice though.
Should work now. I'm not happy about that Aya myself and I'm contemplating removing the wings entirely. I think Commandant Reisen turned out better than I expected, Cowgirl Tenshi too. The most work actually went into Mokou, although I hope it's not noticeable.
Edit, oh that's Alice.. I thought for a second might be but the hair-do and hair thing made me decide rumia. Doh...
It's funny you should say that, because when I saved the image I thought "Oh that's a nice Rumia!" and only when I was editing it did I realize it was PC98 Alice
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Err on the safe side and tag your second sample pic as NSFW please.
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That flan shot is pretty questionable for me too >=P.
In mini-mode the Yukari pic looked good, but upon closer inspection it's not my style.
It seems really hard to find a good Yukari picture with a pretty face without being over the top with boobs or cleavage or something.
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Anyone have any level recommendations for the Ver. 2 Boss Rush? I'm probably grossly overleveled now after grinding a bit for Shikeiki (Meiling wasn't quite to the needed HP totals, since I leveled HP/DEF equally) and the massive amount of exp gained from 27F (I'm Reimu 273 now, btw).
Aside from that, it's just Utsuho, Seals Ver.2, and everything after the 27F boss (who I've yet to fight either). The end is more and more in sight though. :D
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Err on the safe side and tag your second sample pic as NSFW please.
:blush: Forgot my censor boxes when I remade the samples
In mini-mode the Yukari pic looked good, but upon closer inspection it's not my style.
It seems really hard to find a good Yukari picture with a pretty face without being over the top with boobs or cleavage or something.
Anything is better than what came with the game. I mean good lord that was the most awful Yukari ever.
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I'm not sure what a good level is for it myself. I pretty much did the same thing... 270 for Eiki though? dammnnn, that's high itself.
Boss rushv2 is really pretty easy after like a simple 20ish levels after you unlock I think it as long as you're careful with yuugiv2 (She still smoked 2 of my guys when I did it), Yuyuko..and maybe Yukari 2.0 if you don't have suwako (with Suwako she's pretty simple).
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I can't begin to tell you how hard I laughed when I saw gapflip.png in there.
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I'm not sure what a good level is for it myself. I pretty much did the same thing... 270 for Eiki though? dammnnn, that's high itself.
Boss rushv2 is really pretty easy after like a simple 20ish levels after you unlock I think it as long as you're careful with yuugiv2 (She still smoked 2 of my guys when I did it), Yuyuko..and maybe Yukari 2.0 if you don't have suwako (with Suwako she's pretty simple).
Lol, I wasn't 270 for Eiki, that would be ridiculous. I was 250 or a little bit less from the grinding for the SKP to make Meiling survive Last Judgement.
And Suwako is my party's strongest switch-Nuker :V
EDIT: Went ahead and did the Ver. 2 Rush. Was pathetically easy. I thought I was going to have to fight the Final Boss ver. 2 again, which is why I waited so long to do it. As it was, it was a joke. Only lost characters to Yuyuko's opener because I couldn't remember who had much DTH resistance. Otw, it was way easy. And now I'm level 279...which should be plenty high for Utsuho and Kedamagrammaton
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Anything is better than what came with the game. I mean good lord that was the most awful Yukari ever.
I don't know. Boobkari has kind of grown on me.
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I don't know. Boobkari has kind of grown on me.
Eeewww that sounds so wrong :V
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What enemy drops Divine Spirit Barrier? It's the only item left to get. -__-
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What enemy drops Divine Spirit Barrier? It's the only item left to get. -__-
Hellfire Demonsky.
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What if when we type in our SKP number we get no results whatsoever? I swear cheat table hates me. :V
EDIT: Or you adjust everything and still get wrong values. God I love how nothing ever works for me. 8D
Out of curiosity how would I use that Win7 offset? I know the order for hexidecimal is 0123456789ABCDEF but how do I add letters to numbers or vice-versa?
I've got a similar problem back then.
are you sure that the "Memory Scan Option" is "All", not "16-bit" or "32-bit"? (the default is 32-bit, IIRC)
that will surely cause a problem if it is wrong.
on a side note, I'm currently uploading an Audiosurf video to Youtube, playing "Dark a Liar" on Pusher Elite :V
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Thanks to some help from spooked, I found out that my cheat engine was outdated and I was doing it just a tad bit wrong.
Old cheat engine versions seem to screw up the cheat tables (even if you attempt to fix them via the skill points address method) so make sure you get version 5.6.1 if you seem to be having problems.
I think what scares me most is that I went from Reimu 50 -> Reimu 91 and Flandre can still rape me hardcore. I know it's shameful to cheat the game but I wouldn't have lasted on a normal file so this is my way of enjoying everything I never made it to legitly. I KNOW I'M HORRIBLE.
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I think what scares me most is that I went from Reimu 50 -> Reimu 91 and Flandre can still rape me hardcore. I know it's shameful to cheat the game but I wouldn't have lasted on a normal file so this is my way of enjoying everything I never made it to legitly. I KNOW I'M HORRIBLE.
I remember having to come back to Flan after she wiped my party in record time. When I did beat her, Tenshi, Fire resist, Wriggle's PSN, and a lucky PAR from Suwako saw me through. I'm sure with a more clever strategy and a little luck I could have beat her earlier than I did.
I don't think there's anything wrong with cheating in a single-player game and there shouldn't be any stigma attached. Just have fun but remember that you aren't playing the game as intended and so you should avoid criticizing encounters for being too easy or whatever. Multi-player games are a different story though.
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Agreed. Enjoy the game as you will, just don't expect people to be happy if you try to brag about your accomplishments. :V
That being said, I love cheating in my old PC games (Baldur's Gate and such) after finishing my first playthrough. You can do some funny things. Makes me wish I had Oblivion on my PC instead of my XBOX for hilarious spell creation and NPC antics.
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I think what scares me most is that I went from Reimu 50 -> Reimu 91 and Flandre can still rape me hardcore. I know it's shameful to cheat the game but I wouldn't have lasted on a normal file so this is my way of enjoying everything I never made it to legitly. I KNOW I'M HORRIBLE.
Have Tenshi tank, eat her alive with NTR, SPI, and CLD nukes. I beat her around 60 with Tenshi, Sanae, and Kaguya. Sanae buffed Kaguya, Kaguya spammed Hourai Barrage, Tenshi tanked and switched them both out before Laveateins.
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Well I downloaded this game and shall play it tonight. Any tips or words of advice?
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Not much to say when you first begin. You should pick up most of the strategies you need to succeed as you play. Just take a look at the bosses on the wiki before you fight them and try to exploit their weaknesses.
For when you can start choosing who to bring with you into the labyrinth, I would suggest you have
1-2 Tanks + 1-2 Healers
At least one DEF nuker and one MND nuker, and someone who can effectively pierce defenses (Patchy, for most of the game)
Some buffers, chosen depending on the rest of your party makeup.
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Well I downloaded this game and shall play it tonight. Any tips or words of advice?
Yes, read the warnings (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6874.msg420707.html#msg420707) that moderators give you so you don't make the same mistake of admitting to piracy a second time.
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Yes, read the warnings (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6874.msg420707.html#msg420707) that moderators give you so you don't make the same mistake of admitting to piracy a second time.
Whoops. My bad (I wish I could use "Za warudo" and change what I just said).
I didn't realize it was like that though ^^;; I suppose I'm a bit more lax about declaring it because the other forums I've gone to don't really have a rule against mentioning downloads (on that note, some DO forbid posting download links, but no one gets in trouble for mentioning that they downloaded it).
[ruro]Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. I'm gonna have to slap you with a 24-hour probation, starting now.[/ruro]
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Okay, so I finished the game like 5 days ago(IT TOOK FOREVER mind you) and I wanted to know if my New Game+ party is ok:
Meiling(Tank)
Komachi(Tank)
Utsuho(Nuke)
Patchy(Go muk-- Err... Nuke.)
Renko(Dehabilitate/Galaxy Stop)
Eiki(Last Judgement)
Mystia(Should I use her for nuking or mysterious song'ing?)
Flan (Glass Cannon :derp:)
Alice (Debuffer)
Youmu (Physical Attacker)
Reimu (Heal/ MND/DEF buff)
Eirin (Hourai Elexir Komachi when needed)
What do you guys think?
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Well I downloaded this game and shall play it tonight. Any tips or words of advice?
1. learn about the targetting system. Single-Target, Multi-Target, Row-Target.
2. learn about affinities.
3. read here and there about how to build who.
4. don't forget to explore the whole floor before you go up.
*and get Meiling before you fight Chen
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Well I downloaded this game and shall play it tonight. Any tips or words of advice?
Don't build everyone for damage. Unlike your typical RPG, well-planned buff/debuff and status effect usage will get you a lot further than damage racing everything with glass cannons in most cases.
Also, always have Meiling, Remilia, Tenshi, or (in some cases) Komachi in the first slot. You want tanks so you don't get partywiped by multitarget attacks or continually lose people to first-slot physical strikes.
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Also, learn how to switch characters effectively. Tactfully switching characters is the backbone of many successful strategies. Watch some videos of late-game battles on Youtube to get a feel of what I mean, if you want.
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Run Labyrith of Touhou, then load a save game. Double-click on the cheat table file (should be "Labyrinth of Touhou ver3 .CT"). In Cheat Engine select the Labyrith of Touhou process, and say "Yes" when it asks if you want to keep the address list. You should see a bunch of ?? or numbers that are obviously wrong for the various cheat values. Back in the game, go to the Magic Library and note your current skill point pool (I'll be using 15366 as an example, yours will be different). In CE type "15366" in the "Value" box, select "Exact Value" and "4 bytes" in the drop-down boxes, then press first scan. Ideally you should have only one result. Note the address of your result. Now, right-click on "skp pool" in the cheat list and select "Recalculate all addresses." Click the "Change to address" tab and type in the address of your result if it isn't already there. Click "Change" and now your values should be fine. Remember to save this fixed table so you don't have to do all of this again.
EDIT: If you more than one result from your scan, change the total Skill Points you have by spending some. Put your new amount of available skill points in the "Value" field of CE and press "Next Scan" (Not "New Scan", that will start everything over). Rinse and repeat until you have only one result.
EDIT2: If you could tell me the address of your single scan result that would be great. It'll save time the next Vista user has problems
The address was 0031190C. Thank you so much for your help!
Just for reference, I was running Labyrinth english version 3.01 without applocale.
EDIT: This solves my problem of missing one goddamn equip for the item star! Seriously the drop rate is way too low. Compound that with the fact that Demonskys are HARD to find.
EDIT2: Wtf I ran the game again, checking the address, and it changed to 00121808! What happened? Does the address change which each new instance of the game?
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Woo! Beat the last of the Touhou character bosses today with Okuu, and beat Kedama Jesus thanks to Kaguya/Suwako attack spam, w/minor help from 18F's SGS. Even took 3 Rankain's to the face, surviving all of them thanks to prodigious buffs. Reisen kind of got slagged though :V
When do you think it's safe to move on to 28F btw? the wiki makes it seem really hard.
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It's fun cheating this game. I ran around with no encounters so exploring the bitchy floors was... still bitchy but a lot less so as I imagine.
I have to say, 18F is probably one of the best floor designs I've seen yet. Sure it's annoying, but it's so well-designed to be so. I love how theres a trillion paths and yet, only 1 leads to the next floor. Everything just flows. The music on 17-18F is freaking amazing too.
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Woo! Beat the last of the Touhou character bosses today with Okuu, and beat Kedama Jesus thanks to Kaguya/Suwako attack spam, w/minor help from 18F's SGS. Even took 3 Rankain's to the face, surviving all of them thanks to prodigious buffs. Reisen kind of got slagged though :V
When do you think it's safe to move on to 28F btw? the wiki makes it seem really hard.
Goto 28f (and 29f) right away if you like, there are no bosses there so if the trash seems hard simply run away or whatever.
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Will Reisen be of much use on the Seals ver. 2 and the final bosses? I was thinking of replacing either her or Alice in my main party with Shikeiki. Both Reisen and Alice are really only used in boss battles now.
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I removed the wings from Aya_v1 and I think she looks better now, although I don't know about those stupid pom-poms. I wanted to fit her fan in the frame but it just won't work.
Wing-less
[attachimg=1]
Wings
[attachimg=2]
MediaFire (Aya_v1_wing-less) (http://www.mediafire.com/?bba23xsvtko89lx)
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Will Reisen be of much use on the Seals ver. 2 and the final bosses? I was thinking of replacing either her or Alice in my main party with Shikeiki. Both Reisen and Alice are really only used in boss battles now.
Bloody Papa Ver. 2 can't be damaged by Reisen, but he is very vulnerable to debuffs, so Discarder still has a use (I used Reisen for this fight myself). Reisen is also good on Beast of Centaurea Ver. 2 (the hardest of the 4 Ver. 2 bloodstained seals), because debuffs carry over to its second form. For everything else (including all 30F bosses), I used Reisen as a pure damage dealer. I don't know how you've been building her, but with full buffs on my Reisen could take hits better than all my other damage dealers, so she could stay in full-time to attack turn after turn with relatively low delay (thanks to the speed boosts). For 30F bosses, I switched to using Mind Starmine, since it does the most damage, and debuffs aren't reliable enough against them.
So yeah, I personally did use Reisen extensively for the last bosses in the game, where she was consistantly my 2nd best damage dealer after Nitori (and actually outdid Nitori during the first part of the Dual Hibachi Ver.2 fight).
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Bloody Papa Ver. 2 can't be damaged by Reisen, but he is very vulnerable to debuffs, so Discarder still has a use (I used Reisen for this fight myself). Reisen is also good on Beast of Centaurea Ver. 2 (the hardest of the 4 Ver. 2 bloodstained seals), because debuffs carry over to its second form. For everything else (including all 30F bosses), I used Reisen as a pure damage dealer. I don't know how you've been building her, but with full buffs on my Reisen could take hits better than all my other damage dealers, so she could stay in full-time to attack turn after turn with relatively low delay (thanks to the speed boosts). For 30F bosses, I switched to using Mind Starmine, since it does the most damage, and debuffs aren't reliable enough against them.
So yeah, I personally did use Reisen extensively for the last bosses in the game, where she was consistantly my 2nd best damage dealer after Nitori (and actually outdid Nitori during the first part of the Dual Hibachi Ver.2 fight).
I've been building pure MAG with LVL ups. But that's good to know though. I'll take that all into mind.
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Aya_v1 now without wings or pom-pom things
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
MediaFire (Aya v1, no wings, no poms) (http://www.mediafire.com/?9fkmj2a4xcbmk2d)
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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention previously: for some reason the wiki seems to always point to the 3F page when you go to select the map on most of the other floors. It's very odd, I think Google Translate might be screwy up there or something, because I remember trying to fix one page and still kept linking back to 3F. Very odd indeed.
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I haven't had that problem at all. ???
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I haven't had that problem at all. ???
Thats odd. Looking at it again, it seems to me that the "page number" in the wiki (the number at the end of the non-translated link) always stays as 46 when you shift to other pages in google translate. Upon checking, I can again confirm it at least does that for me. I actually just fixed F29 to go to the right JP page in the translator through guesswork as to the number it's supposed to be at the end (ended up being 130). I think whoever set up the links simply changed the JP page w/out changing the web address that appears in the address bar, or at least it seems there is that disconnect for me.
It's just kind of odd that navigating through the wiki doesn't change the main address bar or Google Translate's specific address bar, despite changing the content displayed. Maybe it's an issue with my machine, cookies or something, if it works just fine for you.
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Thats odd. Looking at it again, it seems to me that the "page number" in the wiki (the number at the end of the non-translated link) always stays as 46 when you shift to other pages in google translate. Upon checking, I can again confirm it at least does that for me. I actually just fixed F29 to go to the right JP page in the translator through guesswork as to the number it's supposed to be at the end (ended up being 130). I think whoever set up the links simply changed the JP page w/out changing the web address that appears in the address bar, or at least it seems there is that disconnect for me.
It's just kind of odd that navigating through the wiki doesn't change the main address bar or Google Translate's specific address bar, despite changing the content displayed. Maybe it's an issue with my machine, cookies or something, if it works just fine for you.
Could be the way Firefox works too, since I use Opera.
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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention previously: for some reason the wiki seems to always point to the 3F page when you go to select the map on most of the other floors. It's very odd, I think Google Translate might be screwy up there or something, because I remember trying to fix one page and still kept linking back to 3F. Very odd indeed.
Seems to happen with IE8 as well
EDIT: Actually I think the wiki link is just wrong, I just edited the one for 15F and it should work now.
EDIT2: fixed 16F, 18F-28F, 30F
If someone could check to see that the links work, that would be great.
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Seems to happen with IE8 as well
EDIT: Actually I think the wiki link is just wrong, I just edited the one for 15F and it should work now.
EDIT2: fixed 16F, 18F-28F, 30F
If someone could check to see that the links work, that would be great.
I checked a couple of random ones and confirm that those work on Firefox.
On Floor 30 now, Leveling from exploring got me to Reimu 303. I am NOT looking forward to the grindfest to come. Guess I'll just have to play intermittently while I work on HW. Maybe I'll play it some while I play Etrian Odyssey 2 (totally got the game because of this game, too). I just really don't want to grind for ~250 levels to be able to finish the game and say I beat it :V
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I shit you not I just took out Hibachi ver.2 with only Meiling and Reimu left alive. This is just a rough estimate but I think I just Meiling'd 15m HP.
....wtf
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I shit you not I just took out Hibachi ver.2 with only Meiling and Reimu left alive. This is just a rough estimate but I think I just Meiling'd 15m HP.
....wtf
That's why we love it
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Posting more thingies. Experimenting with some post formatting, please bear with me
EDIT: Okay, hopefully that's not too annoying
How come the best Ran picture I could find was actually Horo cosplaying as Ran???
MediaFire (http://www.mediafire.com/?m6tj28uow5o69s7)
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Err... there's a certain event icon on F21 that keeps crashing the game for me. Has anyone else had this issue or is aware of how to fix it?
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Never had that issue when I explored the floor. Still have the four bosses left there, but aside from those possibilities, everything worked.
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Well, so far so good. I met Alice and she challenged me to find her dolls. Haven't found any yet though. xD
There is one thing that's frustrating me though. Patchouli. She's an excellent mage and I have ways to increase her power but her defense is still crippling. I just hope there'll be a way to revert this problem. I'd like to use her more but I'm forced to stick with Marisa and Cirno most of the time (Reimu too but I consider her a staple member).
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There is one thing that's frustrating me though. Patchouli. She's an excellent mage and I have ways to increase her power but her defense is still crippling. I just hope there'll be a way to revert this problem. I'd like to use her more but I'm forced to stick with Marisa and Cirno most of the time (Reimu too but I consider her a staple member).
Cirno is pretty bad for damage. Patchy just doesn't get hit (she stays in the last slot when she's in) and should be nigh immune to magic. You just have to worry about all/row target physical attacks, or getting unlucky and have an enemy randomly pick the fourth slot (rare, but it happens).
Well, so far so good. I met Alice and she challenged me to find her dolls. Haven't found any yet though. xD
Dolls start on the 4th floor, there's one on the 3rd that you can't access at first (you have to beat a boss on the 4th floor).
I found Wriggle to be a huge help when you finally do fight Alice. She only has to be in long enough to use Firefly Phenomenon, then switch her out. Reapply when the PSN wears off.
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Fixing Patchy's DEF so it doesn't suck? Well... not going to happen. Unless you hit the upper thousands in level and have similarly high skill level in DEF, pretty much everything will leave her ruined if they hit her, unless it's Magic.
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Well, so far so good. I met Alice and she challenged me to find her dolls. Haven't found any yet though. xD
There is one thing that's frustrating me though. Patchouli. She's an excellent mage and I have ways to increase her power but her defense is still crippling. I just hope there'll be a way to revert this problem. I'd like to use her more but I'm forced to stick with Marisa and Cirno most of the time (Reimu too but I consider her a staple member).
The Patchster is never going to have enough DEF to block anything, she is one of the better (best?) MND walls however. She also has abysmal SPD so she shouldn't be sitting around in the fourth slot anyway. Unless you need to be immune to magic damage she should nuke, switch, nuke, switch.
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The Patchster is never going to have enough DEF to block anything, she is one of the better (best?) MND walls however. She also has abysmal SPD so she shouldn't be sitting around in the fourth slot anyway. Unless you need to be immune to magic damage she should nuke, switch, nuke, switch.
Even if her speed's bad, Silent Selene only brings her ATB to 40%, and anything that's targeting her is most likely magic-based. On top of that, her huge MP pool and low MP costs make her best suited to sitting out on the field and spamming her MP away in one sitting. It's usually fine to let her sit out from my experiences.
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I generally have her sit out for lengths of time too because the only thing that's really a threat to her is arrow rain, needle parade, ultimate light cannon, etc. Generally, row-based physical attacks aren't actually scary enough to kill her if she's in the back. Exceptions being extremely powerful ones like a late-fight Demon slashing dance from Baal avatar or something. Well, that and unlucky single target atk nukes like steel slasher, triple sword, slash dive, etc, that just so happen to target the back row. Those generally 1shot anybody that's not a tank though, so patchy isn't really exceptional in that regard. Otherwise, having a slot taking 0's most of the time while doing respectable damage is a good thing IMO
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I do the same thing, have Patchy constantly in the 4th slot just using Royal Flare or Silent Selene on w/e I'm fighting. I sometimes use Princess Undine instead, and when I do, it proves useful... or at least most of the time :V
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I leave Patchy out to nuke turn after turn because she's too slow to switch out efficiently. Usually, it's best to switch a character in and out when the character doing the switching (often your tank) is just a bit slower than the character being switched in and out. No one's slower than Patchy, though, so that's not likely happening unless you do some weird things with skill points and equipment.
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Well I guess I know what I'll be doing from now on :V
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All right, guys. You ever notice how the stat growth rates listed for each character don't actually match the value your stats go up by, even without taking level bonuses and skill points into account? For example, Reimu gains 15 HP on her first level up, 16 on her 2nd, 18 on her 4th, and so on. That's because of the little-known value that I like to call the Level Multiplier. Unfortunately, I can't find any information about it. Here's the only thing the wiki has to say:
Furthermore, the multiplier goes up passively on level up even without any bonus investment on most stats (especially HP) but not SP.
With this in mind, I have tried to determine just what the Level Multiplier is, and to tie it in to the total stat formula. Here's what I've got to propose:
Your total stat is equal to:
(Starting Stat) + (Stat Growth * Levels Gained * Level Multiplier) * (1 + Level Bonus + Skill Points + Equipment)
Level Bonus = 0.02 per bonus given
Skill Points = 0.03 per skill level
The Level Multiplier is a latent additional multiplier to your growth rate gained for each level that's separate from your level bonus, so characters with faster leveling rates will benefit more than slower leveling characters. Its existance is not well-documented aside from a single line mentioning it on the wiki, as far as I know, but it's quite easy to see if you test it out yourself, even if it can be difficult to measure. However, the thing that's really interesting about it is that its value is different depending on which stat you're looking at. It's also why the actual amount of a stat you gain per level up doesn't match the growth rates (for example, Reimu has a listed SP growth rate of 20, but it only really increases by 2-3 points per level if you have no level bonuses or skill points). If you level a character from 1 to a much higher value in one go, you'll notice that you gain more stats per level the higher you go, even without skill points or any other bonuses. That's the effect of the Level Multiplier.
I can't say I've measured it down exactly, but after running some tests with my higher level files, here are my estimates for the Level Multipliers for each stat:
HP: 1.20 + 0.03 per level
SP: 0.125 (this value never goes up regardless of level)
ATK: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
DEF: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
MAG: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
MND: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
SPD: 0.0225 + 0.000645 per level
I'm not going to bother calculating it for EVA. SPD was a pain to figure out, but luckily I had a file with characters at level 500+, so I got to use some very high levels to compensate for the low amounts by which SPD tends to grow.
Now, I think this is extremely significant beyond helping you more accurately calculate your total stat. Why? Because this affects the gap between characters with high stat growths and low level rates versus those with the opposite situation. Consider this experiment with two characters that lack equipment, skill points, and level bonuses: Suika and Mystia have ATK growths of 16 and 10 respectively. Going from level 1 to level 2, Suika gains 17 ATK while Mystia gains 11 ATK, so Mystia only gains about 63% as much ATK per level as Suika does. However, this ratio doesn't remain the same throughout the game! Using the exact same amount of EXP for each character, Suika can reach level 475 while Mystia reaches level 547. That natural level difference produces a significant Level Multiplier discrepency between the two. At those levels, Suika gains 321 ATK on her next level up and Mystia gains 230 ATK. Now Mystia gains ~72% as much ATK per level as Suika does! The proportional difference between growth rates shrinks due to Mystia's faster level rate, even before adding in the extra level bonuses she gets. That's another reason why just looking at growth rates can be extremely misleading, as fast leveling rates can do much more than just give you additional level bonuses. They also give a small but significant latent boost to all stat growths (except SP).
I made my calculations using my 30F completed file (Team Unappreciated), which had a lot of characters that I never leveled up. For each stat, I chose a character with an even and easy number for their stat growth (usually 10), and documented their total stat at every 10 or 100 levels, then calculated the multiplier to their stat growth. If anyone would be willing to check my work and confirm my estimations, that'd be helpful.
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Question though, using Suika and Mystia again, what would they gain if they both hit, say, level 500?
Faster leveling does have a nice benefit, as you said, but when all is said and done, a character with a higher level rate but lesser gains per and a character with a lower level rate and higher gains per reach the same level, the one with the slower level rate would have the higher stats. Suika and Mystia at Level 500 would have very different stats, Suika having much higher attack then Mystia at that point, correct?
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All right, guys. You ever notice how the stat growth rates listed for each character don't actually match the value your stats go up by, even without taking level bonuses and skill points into account? For example, Reimu gains 15 HP on her first level up, 16 on her 2nd, 18 on her 4th, and so on. That's because of the little-known value that I like to call the Level Multiplier. blah blah blah
Actually, a thread or two or 3 ago this was discussed. Someone (I forget who) had the formula down. I can't find it atm but I'll look for it. I'll edit my post once I find it.
I can't find the good notes, just my partially-done theorycrafting, which only includes atk,def,mnd,and mag.
Anyway the formula for determining how much of each stat you get I can derive from these notes (which don't include the actual formula unfortunately) is:
(Level+4 * Growth Rate + constant{just take their starting value - level statuprate*5 to get it, I think it's normally 3 though}) * (1+0.02(level-1) + 0.02(times selected stat for level up bonus) + 0.04(skill level - 1) + ItemStats)
So assuming We take Reimu at level 29, and want to figure out her Magic stat.
Her starting magic is 49, and her growth rate is 9. So we find the constant
47-5(9) = 2
We'll pretend that we spent 0 level up points into her magic stat (get mind hrrr), and her skill level is 19:
(33 * 9 +2) * (1 + (28 * 0.02) + 0.02(0LevelupBonus) + 0.04(19SkillLevelBonus) + 0(She's wearing 3 Physical Reactors!) -
(299) * ( 1 + (0.56) + (0) + (0.76) + 0) = 693.68 (I dunno how it handles rounding)
If you gave her 2 ball lightnings (that's 40 mag right? I forget. let's say it's 40 mind for now), and spent all 28 of her level ups on magic:
(299) * (1 + (0.56) + (0.56) + (0.76) + (0.40) = 980.72
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Question though, using Suika and Mystia again, what would they gain if they both hit, say, level 500?
Faster leveling does have a nice benefit, as you said, but when all is said and done, a character with a higher level rate but lesser gains per and a character with a lower level rate and higher gains per reach the same level, the one with the slower level rate would have the higher stats. Suika and Mystia at Level 500 would have very different stats, Suika having much higher attack then Mystia at that point, correct?
This is correct. If they were at the same level, then there is no difference between their Level Multiplier, so the difference in the stats they gain is proportional to the difference between their starting growth rates. Level Multiplier merely alters their growth rates.
Now, the Mystia vs. Suika comparison is still kind of skewed, since Suika's ATK growth is just so high that Mystia will never have any hope of catching up. However, the significance of the Level Multiplier is most important when comparing characters with nearly equal stat growths, but a different leveling rate. Let me present another example:
Reimu has a MND growth of 9, while Suika has a MND growth of 10. Thus, you'd naturally expect Suika to gain more MND per level than Reimu, which is true for most of the game. However, as Reimu gains more levels than Suika does due to her leveling rate, her MND growth rate eventually surpasses Suika's after a certain point thanks to the effects of the Level Multiplier (even if you never give Reimu any level bonuses to MND). On my Team Unappreciated file, where I never leveled or given bonuses to either, Reimu hits level 537 with the same amount of EXP as Suika needs to hit 475. For her next level, Reimu now gains 203 MND while Suika gains 201 MND. Not only has Reimu's MND growth surpassed Suika's, but her base MND stat is still way higher due to having more levels, plus she gets more level bonuses to spend. So while Suika actually has noticably higher MND than Reimu in the early game, by the late game Reimu has far surpassed Suika in this stat.
For all comparisons, I try to be fair by judging both characters with about the same amount of EXP given to each. It should be noted that if you never use Reimu, but have Suika in your party full-time, then Reimu would have only received 80% as much EXP as Suika. But even with this disadvantage, Reimu still has almost as much MND as Suika thanks to her higher leveling rate, which just goes to illustrate just how powerful the Level Multiplier can be even if you neglect a fast-leveling character.
I try to always avoid judging characters by comparing their stats at the same level if they have notably different leveling rates. Comparing Mystia to Suika both at level 500 is meaningless, because such a situation would be literally impossible in this game unless you cheated. If you never use Mystia but always used Suika full-time, Suika would gain 100% EXP to Mystia's 80%, yet that would only let her reach level 467 by the time Mystia reaches level 500. Even with the biggest skew in Suika's favor possible, you can't get the two of them to the same level.
Now, my own personal interpretation of this data is that low leveling rate but high growth rate characters are a tiny bit stronger in the earlier game than the late game, and the opposite is true of fast leveling but low growth rate characters. Not enough to significantly alter the game, but still something to keep in mind.
Actually, a thread or two or 3 ago this was discussed. Someone (I forget who) had the formula down. I can't find it atm but I'll look for it. I'll edit my post once I find it.
Thanks, I found the discussion from thread #2. It was helpful, as you guys confirmed the 2% bonus to ATK/DEF/MAG/MND and the 3% bonus to HP. However, I don't think you guys had anything on the SPD growth multiplier, which is a lot harder to calculate because SPD changes so little unless you're deep into the Plus Disk. Also, I think I have clearer formulas for the base multiplier value, before you start gaining levels. My starting base multiplier of 1.10 is the same as your formula assuming an extra 5 levels of multiplier at level 1, which adds 0.10 to the Level Multiplier.
However, I think overall this whole concept that growth rates change even without putting skill points or level bonuses into them isn't well-known among most players, as I never see it brought up whenever someone asks a question about stat calculations. I hope this will be more widespread and understood from now on.
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Yeah it's cool to know. Basically, every stat gets the level up bonus, and the stat you choose to level up bonus, gets a 2nd. That's why I often say the stat you choose to boost with level up bonuses don't matter as much as people pipe about it. I mean it can make some numbers much larger or whatever yes, but it wont really make your team unplayable or whatever if you choose to 50/50 2 stats instead of massing them all in one "best" stat.
It's also one of the most ingenious level up growth rate formulas I've ever seen in a game IMO. Every single level is slightly, but noticeably more significant than the last (maybe not the last single level, but it doesn't take long to notice the numbers growing faster on their own). The experience required to level up grows at a very steady but not quick pace. Most RPGS have these systems where one level costs double or 50% more than the last one. But not so for this game. So even though the grindfest for 30f is HUGE...You see your characters grow in power at a very very quick rate, so even if you're not even close to reaching the required level for a 30f boss, you really see your battle performance grow at an interesting rate. (Though it's not as significant as Ys. Holy s hit the slime 1-shot me at full health! *comes back, kills 10 slimes* Holy shit the slimes hit me for 0 and I 1 shot them!)
The level up multiplier (I mean Reimu's 0.9, Remi's 1.34, or 1.32, or whatever it is) is indeed more important than you might think because of this feature. However it's important to note that the ratio of level difference is't even close to 0.9/1.34, and the characters with highstats/low level up rate are often compensated by having cheaper skill-level skillpoint costs. It's not as significant as the level difference, but skill levels are twice as significant themselves (or equal if you are comparing it to the main stat that you chose your bonus level on).
I could go on and on about how I love the system.
There WAS a speed formula somewhere in that area though Para. I think it was a page or two before the big formula-o-rama post.
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I took another look at the thread, and all I could find was this:
Spd = ((Lvl/32)*Growth Rate) * Spd multiplier + 100
I don't think you guys ever calculated the SPD multiplier, at least I couldn't find a value for it.
But yeah, I too think the game has a very elegant and well-made system for the levels and stats. For a fan-made game, I'm amazed that I can get so interested in figuring out these formulas.
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On phone, mathing is hard pardon me.
I am pretty sure the speed multiplier is the:
0.02(level bonus) + 0.04(skill level) + (equipment) + 0.02(lvl -1)
Also keep in mind
100spd->200spd->400spd->700spd->1100spd
Also keep an eye out for the enemystats excel spreadsheet. It has accurate speed values on all the enemies, same formula as the player. Not like that database.
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More portraits, especially lots of Froggy
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Pesco when I try to use your ver 3 cheat table it shows random numbers and doesn't work how do I fix it?
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The cheat table I put up is compatible for XP only. If you are using XP, try adding 0001000 to an address and see if it works. If it still doesn't work, then we'll need to see a screenshot.
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On phone, mathing is hard pardon me.
I am pretty sure the speed multiplier is the:
0.02(level bonus) + 0.04(skill level) + (equipment) + 0.02(lvl -1)
If that's correct (and I believe it is, except for skill level; isn't skill level usually 0.03?), then there's something wrong with the growth rate multiplier. It can't be level/32, because that won't give correct values at higher levels. I'm going to have to calculate this one again later with characters at 500+.
Also keep in mind
100spd->200spd->400spd->700spd->1100spd
Also keep an eye out for the enemystats excel spreadsheet. It has accurate speed values on all the enemies, same formula as the player. Not like that database.
Yeah, I use the excel spreadsheet for enemy SPD already. Very, very helpful.
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if i get your e-mail adress I can post it to you, coz i don't know how to submit images here :3
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if i get your e-mail adress I can post it to you, coz i don't know how to submit images here :3
Upload your screenshot to an image hosting site (ImageShack (http://imageshack.us/) or Imgur (http://imgur.com/)) and then copy the image link into a post here.
EDIT: Also you should double check that you're using at least Cheat Engine v5.6.1 because it seems that older versions have problems with the game.
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http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/43/piceq.png
Here it is and yes I have the latest version
Please do not use image tags on images over 640x480.
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You prob know/ tried it... But try running touhou labyrinth WITHOUT applocale just for cheating purposes (or so it with it on if you normally don't) .
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[img]
Here it is and yes I have the latest version
I see CE v5.5 in that screenshot. Try downloading v5.6.1 (http://www.cheatengine.org/) and see if that helps before we start adding to memory address and all that.
EDIT: Also make sure you're using the correct table, the one for Special Disk 3.01 [Not the one for Plus Disk 2.04]
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I'm using 5.5, it's not CE causing the messup.
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I'm using 5.5, it's not CE causing the messup.
Well that's good to know at least. I forgot to ask YellowYoshi what version he was using that didn't work.
Pesco when I try to use your ver 3 cheat table it shows random numbers and doesn't work how do I fix it?
Here's some step-by-step pictures to get your current SKP pool value and address (we'll use this memory address to recalculate the table)
Run the game and load a save, then go to Library
[attach=1 width=110]
Double-click on the cheat table file to open CE
[attach=2 width=110]
[attach=3 width=110]
[attach=4 width=110]
[attach=5 width=110]
[attach=6 width=110]
[attach=7 width=110]
[attach=8 width=110]
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I had CE 5.5 when the cheat tables (I tried all the different ones that have been made) refused to work. If it helps, I'm running Windows 7 as well. My problems were fixed when I updated to CE 5.6.1 and used the latest table for Special Disk.
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ok first i'll see if Ghaleon's right then I'll try everything else, ok cya! :3
EDIT: Ghaleon was right! I always run japanese stuff with applocale, but I didn't run it with applocale and all the numbers were at 0!
(except time which was at 41)
so anyway thx for suggestions and great thanks to Ghaleon.
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I didn't know you could change the images like that. :o
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I just tested to be sure of it myself, and yes, you get 100% experience w/party members in reserve and in active party. Which is so nice (Old news I'm sure, but I just had to see the evidence myself :V). Nothing like letting my Tankish characters get full exp for random battles that they are less useful in.
In related news, I had a question to direct at Paralaxxal, and I guess anyone else who is familiar with the Etrian Odyssey series: I ended up picking up the 2nd game (the only one I could find at my local game stores) and have been looking into some basic information about it. Specifically though, I was wondering how you would compare the difficulty present in that game to this one, or perhaps such games as FFT or SMT P3 FES, which were some of the more difficult RPGs I've played, or so I reckon. What do you think?
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Uh...I honestly don't have that much experience with the Etrian Odyssey series, and can't really answer your question.
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If you're comfortable with the Answer/Hard mode in P3FES, you'll find a good challenge but nothing off the wall.
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@Para
Oh, oops then. I had assumed based on the title of the thread that introduced your Let's Play that you were knowledgeable about the series. Sorry 'bout that.
@Fox
That's good to know. I never got to the Answer though (I have yet to finish the game, stopped not because of difficulty but because the story was not interesting me enough at the time, I got about 50% of the way through I think though. I should go back eventually though, I almost always do). But on that note, would you agree in saying that alot of the difficulty comes in the preparation (or lack there-of) stage, as I remember that bosses that would be incredibly difficult otherwise in P3 were simplified by training a special persona for the occasion.
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I found EO2 notably harder than Labyrinth starting out, but it became fairly manageable after getting a few floors in. The difficulty's definitely higher, but it's nothing impossible.
EO1 I've heard ranges from "absurdly difficult" to "why am I even trying to play this" difficulties though, particularly on the last stratum where pretty much everything can inflict Instant Death.
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EO1 I've heard ranges from "absurdly difficult" to "why am I even trying to play this" difficulties though, particularly on the last stratum where pretty much everything can inflict Instant Death.
Primevil, anyone?
Learn2Immunize, that is my advice for that. Seriously Immunize trivializes most seemingly hard aspects of EO1, it almost seemed intentional.
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Primevil, anyone?
Learn2Immunize, that is my advice for that. Seriously Immunize trivializes most seemingly hard aspects of EO1, it almost seemed intentional.
I've only played EO2, and got cut short on that from my DS going kaput, so :V
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More portraits, especially lots of Froggy
*Plenty of pics*
Ok, out of all those pics, one of them looks like KOS-MOS. Who is that pic meant for, Kanako?
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Ok, out of all those pics, one of them looks like KOS-MOS. Who is that pic meant for, Kanako?
I don't always have a character in mind when I edit an image, but I was actually thinking of Komachi. KOS-MOS is a STR based PHYS attacker who has a scythe weapon (F-SCYTHE), an instant death skill (Gate), and a multitude of debuff skills, including a multi-target debuff for gnosis (Hilbert Effect). Gnosis are also virtually invincible without being affected by the Hilbert Effect, and who can be relied upon to kill virtually anything? Komachi, The Laziest Shinigami. Tack on the fact that (Xenosaga III spoiler) Gnosis are the souls of all who died since creation and who crave release from existence (or rebirth)
and KOS-MOS fits surprisingly well.
She could also be used for Okuu due to her vast array of powerful fire (CANNON, A-BURST, NEMESIS) and beam (R-CANNON, X-BUSTER, Satellite) weaponry and skills. Her most powerful skill (D-TENERITAS) is a phase transfer cannon mounted in her chest between and slightly above her breasts. KOS-MOS also has a history of going completely insane.
EDIT1: Don't ask about the Banana Seal
EDIT2: Actually I think F-SCYTHE was Ether-type damage but whatever~
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I find the difficulty in Touhou labyrinth to be just plain better. Is better harder? is it easier? It's complicated...
As Trance already stated, immunize (and fortify IIRC...Immunice moreso though, both..lol) makes the game go from zomg I'm being 1-shot by this boss' weakest attacks! to Zomg I can kill the boss before needing to heal a single time because I'm taking so little damage! Even excluding those two moves, each class generally has some skills that are just so much more superior than their alternatives. So basically both EO 1 and 2 are massively harder than Touhou Labyrinth until you reach that threshold of "getting the good skills" for each of your character (generally you just need 1 for 2+ of your characters in your party before the difficulty goes from omgwtfhard to normal, and shortly after that it's a total snorefest).
EO2 doesn't suffer from "power skills" nearly as much as EO1, but it's definately the same situation, extremely difficult at the start, moderate afterwards, then pretty quickly it becomes really damn easy.
EO also has post-game content that is scaled for the level caps pretty much, but I can't really comment much on that. Seems that after I beat the game, I dip my feet into the post game content and it still remains too easy IMO. The super mega final bosses are notoriously hard, but from w hat I hear it's not real difficulty so much as you MUST follow this EXACT strategy to win, which really doesn't sound like much fun to me.
They are definately worth trying though, I think they are pretty fun until you get near the level caps to be honest.
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I find the difficulty in Touhou labyrinth to be just plain better. Is better harder? is it easier? It's complicated...
As Trance already stated, immunize (and fortify IIRC...Immunice moreso though, both..lol) makes the game go from zomg I'm being 1-shot by this boss' weakest attacks! to Zomg I can kill the boss before needing to heal a single time because I'm taking so little damage! Even excluding those two moves, each class generally has some skills that are just so much more superior than their alternatives. So basically both EO 1 and 2 are massively harder than Touhou Labyrinth until you reach that threshold of "getting the good skills" for each of your character (generally you just need 1 for 2+ of your characters in your party before the difficulty goes from omgwtfhard to normal, and shortly after that it's a total snorefest).
EO2 doesn't suffer from "power skills" nearly as much as EO1, but it's definately the same situation, extremely difficult at the start, moderate afterwards, then pretty quickly it becomes really damn easy.
EO also has post-game content that is scaled for the level caps pretty much, but I can't really comment much on that. Seems that after I beat the game, I dip my feet into the post game content and it still remains too easy IMO. The super mega final bosses are notoriously hard, but from w hat I hear it's not real difficulty so much as you MUST follow this EXACT strategy to win, which really doesn't sound like much fun to me.
They are definately worth trying though, I think they are pretty fun until you get near the level caps to be honest.
That sums up a lot of what I've read about the games. EO1 it was Defender + Immunize (due to the way defense was calculated in the formulas there, Immunize was ridiculous. I think it's still in EO2 in some form, but because they changed the way that formula worked it's not nearly as broken). EO2, from what I've read on the GameSpot boards, can be a total snorefest if you abuse certain combinations (I've read things about Revenger Hexers being ridiculous, although me still not understanding the system yet makes it hard to qualify. Darn sister getting FF4 when I got EO2 so I couldn't borrow her DS... :V). That being said, it seems that while EO2 is a bit easier, it's a lot less rigid in party makeup, which is fun.
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Good Girl Update
MediaFire (http://www.mediafire.com/?m6tj28uow5o69s7)
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Uh, hi. I'm new to the forums (and relatively new to the series, and this game) :blush:
Anyways, 18f is beating me to a pulp. ALL THE TIME. And I was wondering if I could get some help with the strategy.
Currently: Reimu 95?ish
Team:
Reimu - heal + barrier
Marisa - Spark Spirit form OR last form
Froggy - Croaking Frog for Wind form, Iron Rings for Spirit form
NEET - Hourai Barrage for last form and Mystic form
Yuugi - 1 or 2hko the cold form with KOi3S
Suika - Throwing Atlas lolol for Nature Form
Boobmonster - barrier spam. Seriously. I guess for taking 0s from Start of Heavenly Demise helps too :3
Remi - durable damage dealer
Tenshi - not dying
China - not dying/status healing
Iku - Stickleback and possible damage against Nature form, if Suika doesn't 1 or 2 shot it
Patchy - Royal Flare for Cold form, Selene for everything else
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I'm seeing a serious lack of Nitori in that lineup.
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I don't see a dedicated healer either
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I'm seeing a serious lack of Nitori in that lineup.
Oops. Forgot to mention version 2.04 :derp:
Although I'd love to Linear Gun the crap out of him
I don't see a dedicated healer either
Reimu for the most part. Boobmonster is covering the defense buffing, but should I drop someone for Sanae or Minoriko, and possibly grind?
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Yuugi or Patchy might be droppable due to both of them being really slow.
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Dedicated healers are unnecessary if you have China as a tank. She can heal herself fine, and Switch+Reimu is enough to keep everyone else up from random aoe spam that doesn't 1shot. They're nice, but..Well, everyone is nice in their own way.
Getting rid of slow characters when you have "boobmonster" is also probaly unneccesary IMO, since they synergize with her the most..
People really should stop asking "does this party work?"
As long as you have 1 tank, a way to heal that tank (even if it's the tank itself), at least 1 major physical and magic nuker, you should be golden. Buffs, debuffs, healing, etc are all helpful but wont make it impossible to beat the game without, and by impossible I odn't mean level up 1000 times impossible, I mean at WORST you need 20 more levels..Winner being the exception, even then I really doubt a "bad" party will really need even only 50 more levels, unless it fails the tank/at least one of each nuke/etc requirements.
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On the subject of Etrian Odyssey - Ghaleon more or less nailed it for the first one, where a couple abilities were horrifically overpowered (Immunize & Defender or Shelter would make a party nearly immortal, maxed Relaxing could have you walking out of FOE battles with more TP than you started with), but if you didn't use them, the game was really difficult. And still, at the very end, there was still some exceptionally tough challenges - even with those skills helping out, the postgame really required you to know exactly what the hell you were doing.
EO2 took away the overpowered abilities completely (Defender stayed, but it wasn't quite as awesome), and a lot of bosses had tricks outside of just pure damage to drive you nuts (Bosses confusing your whole party on the first turn anyone, and god forbid you had a Troubadour in the party facing the Colossus), not to mention FOEs being way scarier. There was still a way to break the game (This time it was Hexers), but for the most part the game stayed challenging throughout because no other class was an easy-mode button; in return though the aftergame was apprently not quite as bullshit as it was previously, excluding the very last rageboss of course.
EO2's probably a better comparison to LoT. Overall the game is tough in both instances, but a little bit of understanding and carefully building your party (In EO2 meaning proper skill selection, in LoT meaning party selection), you could get through pretty much anything.
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I'm failing at patching this. For some reason Kourin doesn't want to change and I can't see the HP and SP values (so the game plays like I have 0 SP). I think I did something wrong...
(Also, are there newer pics of Akyu and the Level-Up Goddess?)
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I'm failing at patching this. For some reason Kourin doesn't want to change and I can't see the HP and SP values (so the game plays like I have 0 SP). I think I did something wrong...
(Also, are there newer pics of Akyu and the Level-Up Goddess?)
Sounds like it blew up on you somewhere. Start again?
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18F is weird. I found there are some instances where the picture stays as the default one without switching to the new one in the charagraph file, but once 18F is is your party I stopped seeing the odd occasions where his old pictures for some reason overwrote the old one (I.E. when you first see 18F become powerful, he switches from the original artwork to the new stuff).
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Thanks. I'll try my luck and maybe grind to Reimu 100ish, so that Tenshi doesn't die to every Raetsu Fist.
*angry fist shake*
He's sniped Patchy several times with that too.
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I'm failing at patching this. For some reason Kourin doesn't want to change and I can't see the HP and SP values (so the game plays like I have 0 SP). I think I did something wrong...
When you copied your saves, you made sure to only copy over Save1, Save2, and Save3, right?
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When you copied your saves, you made sure to only copy over Save1, Save2, and Save3, right?
Oh I copied the whole folder.
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Oh I copied the whole folder.
That's a recipe for fail, as I discovered when I did that for the Special Disk upgrade :3
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That's a recipe for fail, as I discovered when I did that for the Special Disk upgrade :3
Should be pretty easy to fix though. Just delete Save_NaN from the game folder then copy Save_NaN from the disc. I'm 100% sure that the Jap 3.01 patch doesn't affect Save_NaN (it's just an .exe replacement) and like 95% sure than the english 3.01 translation patch doesn't touch those files, so it doesn't matter if you've already patched the game.
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Should be pretty easy to fix though. Just delete Save_NaN from the game folder then copy Save_NaN from the disc. I'm 100% sure that the Jap 3.01 patch doesn't affect Save_NaN (it's just an .exe replacement) and like 95% sure than the english 3.01 translation patch doesn't touch those files, so it doesn't matter if you've already patched the game.
When I fixed it I just restored the default save files (I made a backup first, just renamed the original one and copied over my old save folder :V) and overwrote the Save[1-3] folders. Everything worked fine, and I was already using the latest 3.01 English patch (one of the patches that was in the OP at Pooshlmer was out of date even though a newer version was available in the previous thread).
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Finally upgraded to Special Disk.
Sold tons of items.
Decked out Nitori with tons of SP.
Beat 18f! Got really close at the end when boobmonster ran out of SP and TP and died to a Start of Heavenly Demise, but our favorite kappa ended it soon after.
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Geeeeeeeeeeez, Alice is murder. =_=
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Geeeeeeeeeeez, Alice is murder. =_=
Poison + nuking Healing Light (or whatever it's called) = easy win
Only times I get slaughtered is due to either Little Legion or Weakening Prayer, though for the latter Rumia's a lifesaver.
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Poison + nuking Healing Light (or whatever it's called) = easy win
Only times I get slaughtered is due to either Little Legion or Weakening Prayer, though for the latter Rumia's a lifesaver.
I actually did that. I was basically trying to nuke everyone to get rid of the dolls while using Wriggle and Cirno to Poison and Paralyze them respectively. I defeated Healing Light at one point thanks to Marisa's Master Spark, but Alice KOed me with Little Legion. Guess I should grind.
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HAHAHA! I beat her finally! The only casualty was Cirno getting KOed.
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(Mild note... Edit button?)
Moreover, I've started a new game plus, still 2.04 because I got frustrated of 18F random encounters.
And it's a silly team, probably without the most beneficial synergy.
ATK Komachi
DEF/MND Eirin
MAG Sanae
ATK Mystia
SPD/ATK Aya
SPD Renko
SPD/ATK Keine
MND/DEF Suika
ATK Flandre
MAG Kaguya
MND/SPD Iku
MAG/MND Alice
I'm thinking of probably dedicating Eirin to solely DEF and boost her SPD since Iku and Suika can both tank MND effectively. Komachi isn't an HP tank, but she's still gonna end up with a ton of HP anyway to back up her attacks.
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If you're intending to have Eirin tank...it stopped working for me after 7F.
Just warning you.
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Eirin is mainly there to overheal Komachi, since she won't be having the usual 10 million HP.
Aside from that, no matter how you look at it, I don't have a real DEF tank.
But in exchange for that, I've got a good SPI nuker in for most battles, and Iku can tank the MND and help Komachi's output, if not Suika or... anybody, really.
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Somehow, I managed to beat Tenshi with one of my two dedicated Violent Motherland tank dead three turns in because I fatfingered and healed the wrong person with Minoriko, Minoriko herself dying soon after the first violent motherland because I was too stupid to switch someone in the second/third slot before her, and Reimu dying immediately after in the same fashion, leaving me with no def buffers and no external healers (Meiling's Healer and Rumia's Demacration don't count).
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Updated my portrait pack w/ lots of Mokou
*snip*
Mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/?m6tj28uow5o69s7)
[matsuri]Yes, it's subtle and censored, but the thumbnail had NSFW stuff in it. If you wish to link the image, please post the url in [nsfw][/nsfw] tags.[/matsuri]
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So I decided to start doing some portraits. All of these are from Touhouvania.
I was going to do larger ones for Reimu and Remilia, but Flandre turned out to be a pain in the ass, so I didn't get around to it yet. Next time.
[attach=1]
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ro3435r2tfz343t
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So I decided to start doing some portraits. All of these are from Touhouvania.
I was going to do larger ones for Reimu and Remilia, but Flandre turned out to be a pain in the ass, so I didn't get around to it yet. Next time.
[attach=1]
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ro3435r2tfz343t
I love you.
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omg yes. Touhouvania has the most amazing character portraits I've seen
Edit: Just pawnt Beat of Centaurusv2 at Reimu 380 By Paralize-locking it as para suggested...took damn forever, got no exp our skp outta the deal. I didn't have renko, but Raymoo+Suwako+Kaggy all pitched in to keep that badboy stunned (kaggy by buddha-bowling Suwako). last spot wwas for nukers/Ran to rebuff nukers. Very boring fight. Never doing that again lol.
I hope that it doesn't make the game crap out into thinking I never beat the boss for double hibachiv2....
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omg yes. Touhouvania has the most amazing character portraits I've seen
Edit: Just pawnt Beat of Centaurusv2 at Reimu 380 By Paralize-locking it as para suggested...took damn forever, got no exp our skp outta the deal. I didn't have renko, but Raymoo+Suwako+Kaggy all pitched in to keep that badboy stunned (kaggy by buddha-bowling Suwako). last spot wwas for nukers/Ran to rebuff nukers. Very boring fight. Never doing that again lol.
I hope that it doesn't make the game crap out into thinking I never beat the boss for double hibachiv2....
Wow, I can't believe you actually did that. I mean, I know I suggested the strategy, but still...I tried it with Team Unappreciated, and got so painfully bored that I just gave up and did it the normal way.
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Someone should post new pics of Akyu and maybe one of the Level-Up Goddess.
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Someone should post new pics of Akyu and maybe one of the Level-Up Goddess.
As far as I'm aware you can't change their art.
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If you think PAR spamming Beast of Centureus v2 is boring, try tanking Hibachi v2 with Meiling and Reimu while whittling it down through Mountain Breaker spam. Yeah.
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Where's Iku? O_o
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Where's Iku? O_o
Do you mean in the game? She's on 6F. The Wiki (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou) has answers to questions like "where/how do I get X in my party" and "what monster drops X item," you should check it out.
EDIT: "It's not all porn" update
[attach=1 width=110]
MediaFire (http://www.mediafire.com/?m6tj28uow5o69s7)
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Expanded Reimu's and Remilia's Touhouvania portraits, flipped Rumia's portrait, and I added three more.
http://www.mediafire.com/?r9cco8jjywsobm5
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Do you mean in the game? She's on 6F. The Wiki (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou) has answers to questions like "where/how do I get X in my party" and "what monster drops X item," you should check it out.
I did and it kinda misled me. It started talking about her right after warning me about an optional boss so I thought Iku was in the same exact area. i ended up finding Iku on my own though.
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Pawnted soc, looking forward to yet ANOTHER new game.
Want to try mag-focus yuyu despite my own opinion that she was disappointing, mystia, Aya (wanna make her ATk-based this time), the usual (remi,reimu,patchy,Marisa,china) minoruke, renko, Eiki and kaggy.
No nitori with kaggy will stink, but it's the price to try some new faces.
I kinda want flan too but last game I was really disappointed with starbrow break... Seemed like nitori damage at a huge cost, not to mention flan's non offensive stats are total garbage.
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Seemed like nitori damage at a huge cost, not to mention flan's non offensive stats are total garbage.
Yeah, but on the other hand? Starbow Break has half the delay of other nukes with its power, and Flandre's speed is awesome. If you can set her up in a situation where a boss is PAR'd, has reduced speed, or even swap her in right after a long-delay attack, being able to pull off a couple of nukes without needing the rest of the party to switch her around is nice.
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Yeah, but on the other hand? Starbow Break has half the delay of other nukes with its power, and Flandre's speed is awesome. If you can set her up in a situation where a boss is PAR'd, has reduced speed, or even swap her in right after a long-delay attack, being able to pull off a couple of nukes without needing the rest of the party to switch her around is nice.
I know, but I still had more trouble than it was worth in that playthru.
Though if I keep mystia, aya, remi, kaggy, and renko... I should have a huge speed advantage for most fights to babysit her... gah.
I wanna dump IKU since I have renko to charge, but the fact is after swapping 1 person, using charge again just to buff that one person is a huge waste. blah.
Maybe I'll dump marisa since her concentrate+spark is a waste with charge AND thundercloud stickleback.
Edit: Trying to beat Double Hibachi v2 at Reimu 450..But I keep ragequitting at the start cuz for 4 games in a row now stupid atk-hibachi steel-smasher'd my BACK at least twice before the first needle parade per attempt.. sigh. so bs.
new edit: Yay pawnt. Man they're easy when they aren't being cheap at the start. Anybody know if the level 550 level reccommendation for winner is over-generous? Double Hibachi v2's 445 seems to be, Though I suppose it's pretty minimal if you don't have defense buffing on China for washing machine...
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Finally beat Miss Sake Not Even Drop last night. Youmu gave the finishing blow., And now I have to deal with
Tam's Foe
.
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Is it just me or does 13F give quite a spike in random encounter difficulty?
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Yeah; after 12f trash difficulty is cranked up on pretty much every floor.
13f itself wouldn't be SO bad without them spiral divers.
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Also, in what order and at what level should I challenge the bosses of 14F? I checked a bit of Mokou's stats and I'm not quite convinced that I'm ready for her yet (my team ranges mostly in the low 50s), and judging from experience/skill point reward (and level, not that it has any in-game significance), Yuyuko is even tougher than Mokou...
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Also, in what order and at what level should I challenge the bosses of 14F? I checked a bit of Mokou's stats and I'm not quite convinced that I'm ready for her yet (my team ranges mostly in the low 50s), and judging from experience/skill point reward (and level, not that it has any in-game significance), Yuyuko is even tougher than Mokou...
I went Yuyuko - Mokou - Orin. Fighting Mokou first might be useful though so you have someone with high DTH resist and good survivability vs Yuyuko.
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I think Bloody Papa just broke on me. Instead of using Papa's Washing Machine 40% of the time when at one-third of his health (like the database says he should), he used it literally every single freaking chance he got, only pausing for the mandatory Strengthen Jutsu every fourth turn. Needless to say, that attempt didn't go very well. :V
And then I pulled Cirno out of retirement for the next attempt, debuffed his speed, and killed him with Nitori before he used the attack once, since he was nice enough to keep to his normal pattern that time.
[attach=1 width=110]
That's a very nice Yukari picture in the bottom row, but I can't seem to find it in the provided download. Did you forget to include it?
Also, am I the only one who keeps getting "there's no server with the requested data" errors when trying to download the updated Touhouvania set?
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That's a very nice Yukari picture in the bottom row, but I can't seem to find it in the provided download. Did you forget to include it?
Also, am I the only one who keeps getting "there's no server with the requested data" errors when trying to download the updated Touhouvania set?
I'm getting the same error. It looks like I did forget, and I was proud of finding that too. It's hard to find a Yukari that doesn't look like she spreads her gaps for everyone. Get it here (Yukari_v2) (http://www.mediafire.com/?5icjad13sriac)
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What's a suggested level for going against Reisen? I keep getting beat down after she uses her elixir.
In the meantime, have some more portraits.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?rskqya11rc2e1rh
[attach=2]
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I think Bloody Papa just broke on me. Instead of using Papa's Washing Machine 40% of the time when at one-third of his health (like the database says he should), he used it literally every single freaking chance he got, only pausing for the mandatory Strengthen Jutsu every fourth turn.
I don't think he broke, I think you have bad luck and failed statistics :3
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Thank you very much, both of you. You have no idea how long I have been looking for good LoT portraits of Yukari, Shikieiki, and Utsuho...
I don't think he broke, I think you have bad luck and failed statistics :3
Well, given how he started using it while still at almost full health, and then proceeded to use it ten times straight before finally killing off my last tank...
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Well, given how he started using it while still at almost full health, and then proceeded to use it ten times straight before finally killing off my last tank...
You don't have bad luck. You have my luck.
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Thank you very much, both of you. You have no idea how long I have been looking for good LoT portraits of Yukari, Shikieiki, and Utsuho...
Well, given how he started using it while still at almost full health, and then proceeded to use it ten times straight before finally killing off my last tank...
There's always using Parallaxal's strategy of Spiriting Away HAXing him to death :3
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I'm still waiting for a good Mokou.
No moose, porn =/= good (in this case)
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I'm still waiting for a good Mokou.
No moose, porn =/= good (in this case)
Your words wound me. What kind of Mokou are you looking for (Standard, Contemporary, Sheep)? A lot of the images out there have flame effects, and it's hard to extract her from the conflagration.
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Your words wound me. What kind of Mokou are you looking for (Standard, Contemporary, Sheep)? A lot of the images out there have flame effects, and it's hard to extract her from the conflagration.
Badass Mokou, simply put.
You do raise a good point, though. Hadn't thought about the rendering issues.
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Eh, I can probably figure it out. It shouldn't be any harder than, say, the second Flandre portrait I did.
I'll try it out a bit later.
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Badass Mokou, simply put.
You do raise a good point, though. Hadn't thought about the rendering issues.
I don't know if this is what you're looking for but...
This one is just a crop/resize
[attach=1 width=110]
This one has a little fix for the fire on her finger
[attach=2 width=110]
This one has some recoloring because Mokou has white hair
[attach=3 width=110]
Mediafire in a bit
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Well, given how he started using it while still at almost full health, and then proceeded to use it ten times straight before finally killing off my last tank...
Personally, I think the Database is wrong on this one (wouldn't be the first time; see Agastobrauma). I've had Bloody Papa (Ver.2, which should follow the same attack pattern) use Papa's Washing Machine on turn 2 in my video, when the only damage I dealt to him was by a single Comet on Earth. This makes me suspect he's allowed to use the Washing Machine whenever he wants, not just at low health.
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Personally, I think the Database is wrong on this one (wouldn't be the first time; see Agastobrauma). I've had Bloody Papa (Ver.2, which should follow the same attack pattern) use Papa's Washing Machine on turn 2 in my video, when the only damage I dealt to him was by a single Comet on Earth. This makes me suspect he's allowed to use the Washing Machine whenever he wants, not just at low health.
Me too. Magic jitsu, washing machine.
honestly though I find papa's washing machine to be pretty tame compared to a magic jitsu ether flare...
edit: err I'm talking about version 2, I honestly odn't recall how version 1 did stuff. In any case though papa's washing machine is a pretty feeble move, especially since magic jitsu does nothing to his atk, while all his other spells get full benefit from magic jitsu's buff.
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I don't know if this is what you're looking for but...
This one is just a crop/resize
[attach=1 width=110]
This one has a little fix for the fire on her finger
[attach=2 width=110]
This one has some recoloring because Mokou has white hair
[attach=3 width=110]
Mediafire in a bit
Now that's more like it.
I'm thinking #3.
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Damn, I was beaten.
Anyway, for your consideration:
[attach=1]
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?uws8opjfs4q93l2
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Now that's more like it.
I'm thinking #3.
Tweaked 3rd image a little. Two wings, less hair.
[attach=1 width=110]
All three are here:
MediaFire (File "Mokou_Eso") (http://www.mediafire.com/?5icjad13sriac)
EDIT:
Damn, I was beaten.
Anyway, for your consideration:
[attach=1]
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?uws8opjfs4q93l2
Well technically you win since you posted a link first
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Awesome, thanks to both of you.
Semi-related, Squid's Mokou is missing part of her arm. :V
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She was missing it in the original drawing. Seems to be that parts of her body/clothing are turning into fire.
And no problem. You can repay me by telling me a good level to face Reisen.
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She was missing it in the original drawing. Seems to be that parts of her body/clothing are turning into fire.
And no problem. You can repay me by telling me a good level to face Reisen.
Uh, whatever you fought Nitori at I guess. Reisen seemed extremely easy to me and I hadn't done any additional grindgrindgrind outside of heading for the stairs (didn't even make the effort to explore the floor), so.
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And no problem. You can repay me by telling me a good level to face Reisen.
If you can reach her, you're probably strong enough to beat her. Either spam multi-target attacks, or just have Cirno/Reimu use their mass paralysis spell to keep the underlings frozen while you nuke Reisen with your best single-target moves like Megawatt Linear Gun or Silent Selene. Personally, I prefer the latter, since it can earn you her Getitup V drop. The former is probably easier, though, since she'll waste her turns resummoning her underlings.
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If you can reach her, you're probably strong enough to beat her. Either spam multi-target attacks, or just have Cirno/Reimu use their mass paralysis spell to keep the underlings frozen while you nuke Reisen with your best single-target moves like Megawatt Linear Gun or Silent Selene. Personally, I prefer the latter, since it can earn you her Getitup V drop. The former is probably easier, though, since she'll waste her turns resummoning her underlings.
I beat Reisen before Nitori. I did it the hard way for her drop and failed the first time by getting screwed over by her underlings (all mages, stealin' my SP), but managed to pull it off on my second attempt (had all warrior underlings at the start). This was also 2.04, so Nitori wasn't ZOMG amazing. No PAR spam was involved, though in hindsight it would've been easier that way :V
I don't remember my level, but I was still within the recommendation range on the wiki. I always made sure I mapped out every floor except 8, so if you've been exploring you should be okay with some strategy.
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The only thing to keep in mind against Reisen is that, whenever she summons underlings after the first time around, she'll use Mind Starmine the turn after unless she decides to spend that turn summoning more underlings as well. If you can read that attack to perserve your members in time, there's virtually no danger to the battle.
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All v2 bosses defeated. Mokou was a bit of a pain due to Slash Dive being able to OHKO anyone except for Meiling, and quite a few of the other more powerful ones degenerated into "ohgod I'm going to die let's just switch in everyone and hope someone survives long enough to kill the boss" mode, but all in all things went pretty well. All that's left to do of the pre-Plus Disk content now is the boss rush (which should probably be pretty easy at Reimu level 180, as long as I'm careful not to get people DTHed) and the final bloodstained seal.
Speaking of the latter; why does Dual Colourful Light have to be so freaking powerful? D: Poor Meiling is having trouble surviving those even with full MND buffs in place, and it doesn't even have an element so that I can resist it... And it doesn't help that the boss in question likes using it far more often than the database's 10% chance would suggest.
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Reisen and Nitori both bring me sadness.
So I did some more portraits.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?nuwmlwzimuqozsd
[attach=1]
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Reisen and Nitori both bring me sadness.
So I did some more portraits.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?nuwmlwzimuqozsd
[attach=1]
I was going to do that Yukari but I guess I won't now. But I did the Mokou by the same artist. Make sure you bring this Mokou to the fight with Bloody Papa
so they can compare threads.
[attach=1 width=110]
MediaFire (http://www.mediafire.com/?l00m0l0axlc2g3t)
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I was going to do that Yukari but I guess I won't now.
Sorry... :ohdear:
You can put it up anyway. I had some trouble with mine, but yours could easily be better.
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Sorry... :ohdear:
You can put it up anyway. I had some trouble with mine, but yours could easily be better.
I was just joking. Actually the masking layer I started looks almost exactly like your image so there wouldn't be much point. I guess great minds think alike :V
EDIT: Hey if it's okay with you, can I post a different version of the Okuu on the right? I'm going to try to remove the cape background and some of the upper/larger wing while retaining her hair. Maybe try to save the lower wing-thing (or is that hair?) as well.
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Aye, sorry about that. I'm paranoid, as you can tell.
Sure, go ahead. As far as I can tell, her wings in that one are being formed by her hair. But yeah, it'll probably be good to have a couple of different versions in case someone doesn't want a big cape obscuring stuff.
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Okay I did my best, but I think the wing might have to go. I want to keep it but I'm not sure if it's covering too much of the screen.
[attach=1 width=110] [attach=2 width=110] [attach=3 width=110]
Gah! I'm going to keep fiddling with it.
EDIT: Okay, here's what I ended up with:
[attach=4 width=110] [attach=5 width=110]
MediaFire "LoT_Utsuho" (http://www.mediafire.com/?mk0c5w314c588)
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Bah, I can't beat Suwako.
Thanks to Komachi I can Poison and Paraylze her while decreasing her Mind and Speed, but she still manages to own me.
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Bah, I can't beat Suwako.
Thanks to Komachi I can Poison and Paraylze her while decreasing her Mind and Speed, but she still manages to own me.
Suwako I found easy (I ran into her without expecting it at all and tore her apart my first try), so I'm still not sure why people have trouble, but here.
She follows a pretty strict pattern.
She starts out in "Physical" mode. Her Physical defense is twice as high as her magical defense during this phase, and she uses single-target attacks during this phase. The fifth attack in this phase is Croaking Frog Eaten By Snake, used on the frontmost character.
After, her next turn will put her in "Magical" mode, where her defenses flip. She now uses multi-target magic spells for four turns, then finishes off with a final casting of Mishaguji-Sama on the fifth. Rinse and repeat.
Knowing this should help.
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Just for fun, who's the save file portrait for you guys? For me it's Remilia.
EDIT: Also, a genuine question - which floor is the best hunting ground for Ring of Hades for Yuyuko?
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Enemy Drop: 6F 7F, 8F, 10F, 11F, 15F
Not sure which enemies though. I say whichever ones you can clear easily in one attack.
Edit: Currently lies, I know who drops it
6F: Wraith
7F: Mirage
8F: Reappear-ition
10F and 11F: Hammer Shark
11F: Dark Element
15F: Spectre
So far, your best bet is to fight the Spectre(4% drop rate) or the Wraith or Mirage(3.91% for both).
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Just for fun, who's the save file portrait for you guys? For me it's Remilia.
On my first save file it was Ran for a good portion of the game, then changed to Tenshi on 16F.
On my newer one it was Maribel
at first, then switched to "Shizuha" (actually Minoriko). I'm expecting Sanae to take over soon.
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I found that in 7F, in the area where the stair going up is located in is the best spot. About every other battle has at least one Mirage in it, and there're also a decent number of Mesmerized Knowledges which drop Forbidden Tablets with 16 DTH res (albeit at 7/1024 rate...). Well theoritically anyways, I've done a hundred battles or so and have yet to see either...
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Finally found out why Nitori kept owning my party. I had several peoples' fire affinity in the 15-22 range, while their cold affinity was usually 2-5. Managed to beat her with four members left after upping my cold affinity to match my fire affinity.
So, to celebrate, I made portraits of all the Pocket Wars portraits.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?7u3k0ccabdaezna
And I did three more normal portraits.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?qy29ync8udlddaj
[attach=1]
Now on to Reisen again...
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Anyone have a recommended level for last boss v2? Berserk does 10k+ to Tenshi w/ 20k+ in both defenses, 175 Mystic res and full buffs :\
Although damage is not a problem.
Also - is floor 24 basically 14f of the plus disk?
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Suwako I found easy (I ran into her without expecting it at all and tore her apart my first try), so I'm still not sure why people have trouble, but here.
She follows a pretty strict pattern.
She starts out in "Physical" mode. Her Physical defense is twice as high as her magical defense during this phase, and she uses single-target attacks during this phase. The fifth attack in this phase is Croaking Frog Eaten By Snake, used on the frontmost character.
After, her next turn will put her in "Magical" mode, where her defenses flip. She now uses multi-target magic spells for four turns, then finishes off with a final casting of Mishaguji-Sama on the fifth. Rinse and repeat.
Knowing this should help.
How much HP does she have? I managed to chip of 130k but I ended up losing.
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How much HP does she have? I managed to chip of 130k but I ended up losing.
188k. Not kidding. It is significantly more than any other boss you could've fought up to that point.
She's FIR-weak (Knockout in Three Steps during her magical phase will wreck her badly), but resistant (30-50%) against MYS, CLD, and NTR.
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How much HP does she have? I managed to chip of 130k but I ended up losing.
According to the wiki, 188k.
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188k. Not kidding. It is significantly more than any other boss you could've fought up to that point.
She's FIR-weak (Knockout in Three Steps during her magical phase will wreck her badly), but resistant (30-50%) against MYS, CLD, and NTR.
Ah geez, I wasn't even close. >_O
I actually used that move, but the problem is that Suwako constantly knocks out Yuugi, so I have to use Alice, Patchy, Marisa and Komachi. Komachi is really valuable because I can cripple Suwako's stats as well as poison or paralyze her.
Either that or I have to grind again...
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Ah geez, I wasn't even close. >_O
I actually used that move, but the problem is that Suwako constantly knocks out Yuugi, so I have to use Alice, Patchy, Marisa and Komachi. Komachi is really valuable because I can cripple Suwako's stats as well as poison or paralyze her.
Either that or I have to grind again...
Yuuugi shouldn't have any problems with attacks like Moriya's Iron Ring, but you're definitely going to want to hide her during the magic phase. Froggy Braves the Elements and Mishaguji-sama will both one-shot her, and she can't hide in the back row from those.
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Ah geez, I wasn't even close. >_O
I actually used that move, but the problem is that Suwako constantly knocks out Yuugi, so I have to use Alice, Patchy, Marisa and Komachi. Komachi is really valuable because I can cripple Suwako's stats as well as poison or paralyze her.
Either that or I have to grind again...
Try replacing Marisa, due to Suwako's MYS resistance. Of course, I can't think of anyone to replace her with at the moment.
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Yuuugi shouldn't have any problems with attacks like Moriya's Iron Ring, but you're definitely going to want to hide her during the magic phase. Froggy Braves the Elements and Mishaguji-sama will both one-shot her, and she can't hide in the back row from those.
Yea, those attacks did me in. My starters are Remilia, Meiling, Iku and Patchy. I use Iku to charge up Patchy to 100%, Remilia to attack for damage and Mei to heal Patchy if she ends up getting paralyzed. Then I switch out Meiling to Reimu and use Hakurei Border to increase everyone's defenses. I'd sometimes take out Komachi to weaken, paralyze and poison Suwako, then switch her out to recover her SP. Then to add extra damage, I bring out Yuugi, Marisa (for a single Master Spark, then I switch her out) and Sakuya.
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While Remi definitely contributes much better damage than Meiling, I think you might do better if you sacrifice some of your damage output and leave Meiling in full time in the first slot as a tank.
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Yea, those attacks did me in. My starters are Remilia, Meiling, Iku and Patchy. I use Iku to charge up Patchy to 100%, Remilia to attack for damage and Mei to heal Patchy if she ends up getting paralyzed. Then I switch out Meiling to Reimu and use Hakurei Border to increase everyone's defenses. I'd sometimes take out Komachi to weaken, paralyze and poison Suwako, then switch her out to recover her SP. Then to add extra damage, I bring out Yuugi, Marisa (for a single Master Spark, then I switch her out) and Sakuya.
Start with Meiling, Yuugi, Reimu, and Patchy. Have Reimu buff, everyone else does damage. After Croaking Frog, switch Yuugi for Iku and have her buff Patch. When Reimu runs out of SP, switch her for another nuker and have Iku buff them too. At some point you can swap Iku for Komachi for some good ol' debuffing.
Figure it out from there, I have to go.
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It turned out worse than before. I was only able to do about 92k before she danmaku'ed me to [Makai] hell.
Argh, I like Suwako but for the love of Kanako I cannot beat her. >_O Even buffing her down doesn't work. The problem is that her party-wide attacks severely injures my gals and I cannot repair them fast enough to prepare for the next attack Suwako throws. I only get lucky if she uses a single target attack.
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If that's the case, then just move on for the moment, and explore for a bit. A couple levels and some skill points never hurt. I struggled with Suwako when I first got to her as well. Mishaguji maimed basically everyone but Meiling and Komachi
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If that's the case, then just move on for the moment, and explore for a bit. A couple levels and some skill points never hurt. I struggled with Suwako when I first got to her as well. Mishaguji maimed basically everyone but Meiling and Komachi
Yeah might as well...
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> Suwako can be cake or a brick wall, pending on how your doing so far. I think it's safe to say that is Suwako is giving you some issues, you will have similar difficulties for a bit.
> I forget, can you have 12 chars before Suwako? If not, how many?
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Yeah. Even if you fight Suwako at the earliest, you can have: Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Remilia, Patchouli, Chen, Meiling, Cirno, Youmu, Minoriko, Wriggle, Aya (That's 12 right there), Rumia, Alice, Yuugi, Komachi, and Iku. I might have missed someone, but I don't think so.
If you skip her for a little bit you can come back and fight her with Reisen and Nitori from the next floor, who will do some horrifying things to Suwako (One's got a fire-damage multi-debuff spell, and the other is, well, Nitori...)
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Getting Reisen of course needs you to pwn a stupid hard boss, your thinking of someone else :V
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Getting Reisen of course needs you to pwn a stupid hard boss, your thinking of someone else :V
...oh right.
Well, Ran will probably help too, what with being able to pump up everyone's defenses that extra little bit.
Really, I never found Suwako's offensive power to be that high. If you can maintain defensive debuffs and healing (Try Minoriko out by the way), the only thing I ever found particularly dangerous was Croaking Frog and Mishaguji.
She's also got a 40% chance of getting hit by any PAR effects, and a 25% for debuffs, so if you can paralyze and slow her with characters like Cirno and Komachi, you've got a fair chance to get a pretty significant advantage going.
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Narrow Confines of Avici rocks. Use it.
I do get what you mean, though. Suwako is the main reason why I quitted playing Labyrinth for like half a year before restarting from a fresh file, and after that I kind of just trashed her in one try, although I completely mapped all 1-8F before fighting her that time.
In general you'll want to bring some MND tanks, like Patchy and Iku, in addition to your normal tanks so you don't get blown apart in her magic phase. Minoriko probably doesn't have the MND to tank well that way, so stack up her NTR and CLD affinity, and it'll pay off because her physical phase is completely laughable if Minoriko doesn't get nailed by a lucky Iron Ring. Otherwise, keep your physical damage dealers (especially Yuugi) out only in her physical phase.
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Minoriko probably doesn't have the MND to tank well that way
Au contraire, Minoriko has a great MND growth, and you should be building her pure MND as well. Add to that her fast leveling rate, and she should be one of the best MND tanks you have at that point, with a high innate NTR resistance to boot.
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On the other hand, Mishaguji is physical? If so, she'd probably get oneshotted by it, even if she heavily resists nature due to frail defense. If it isn't, she might end up taking less damage than Patchy, if Patchy's taking any damage.
I found Chen pretty useful in the fight (Switch in, Kimontonku, Flight of Idaten until it's nearly Suwako's turn, Phoenix Spread Wings, have someone switch her out). She could DPS like nobody's business, although if she got caught by anything, she died.
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Unless Boss Suwako pulled a Mokou, Mishaguji-sama's magic-based.
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Definitely misread Garlyle's paragraph then. Minoriko will take Mishaguji like a tank :V
Just beware of Froggy Braves the Elements.
Also - have you considered Tank/Tank/Nuker/Nuker or Healer setup? This is currently the setup I'm using. Less damage per second, but more damage overall, because it's easier to switch two glass cannons in and out, and also lets me quickly field two durable characters in when the boss's turn comes up, making it easier to survive as well.
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and you should be building her pure MND as well.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Goddammit. Is there a list of what you should be building each character with? I seem to keep finding out that I'm building my characters wrong.
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FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Goddammit. Is there a list of what you should be building each character with? I seem to keep finding out that I'm building my characters wrong.
There's nothing a few thousand skillpoints can't fix.
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FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Goddammit. Is there a list of what you should be building each character with? I seem to keep finding out that I'm building my characters wrong.
Iku should be pure mind or heavy mind hybrid, as well.
Wriggle should be HP/Def/Mnd.
Can't think of anyone else with an optimum build, as most characters function equally well with any decent build setup unless you do something like ATK Patch or MAG Yuugi
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You're nowhere near far enough into the game for your "incorrect" builds to matter much in the long run, anyway. I guess it depends on how far you plan on taking your characters, but having ~30-40 levels of incorrect level up bonus distribution is pretty minor when you're level 300+. Don't worry about the mistakes you're making now, you'll still be OK. As some advice, though, it's almost never necessary to boost SP with your level bonus, and it's usually not necessary to boost SPD either. In the late game, these stats rise to the point where diminishing returns will hit pretty hard, whereas HP/ATK/DEF/MAG/MND will all retain the same level of usefulness no matter what your level is. Just raising SP and SPD with skill points is typically sufficient for nearly all characters.
For the record, despite some people advocating a more defensive build, I've never used anything but a pure ATK or MAG build for my party's attackers, and I still turned out all right in all of my playthroughs. I suppose having the experience to know how to switch characters efficiently helps, but I'm just saying that even if you gimp your party's defenses like I do, it's still possible to survive the entire game, Plus Disk included. (Team Unappreciated didn't even have group DEF/MND buffs, since I almost never used Charge.)
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To be honest you can use pretty much any build you want.
You can avoid levelling up SP or SPD much, like Parallaxal said, but that's only if you're thinking already about how you're going to handle the endgame. It might come back to be a bit of a disadvantage to put a few levels into those now, but understand that level 300+ is 1/30 floors in the game. It might be the hardest part of the game, yes, but it's not the only obstacle you're going to face, either.
Meanwhile, I have hardly ever specialized into a single stat for a character as far as levelup bonuses go. Yeah, none of my characters are as ridiculous as they could be, but all the same they make up for that by having more usefulness in general.
The only way I think you can level a character bonus up completely wrong is to spend levelup bonuses on a stat that a character will never use (ATK for a mage, for instance), EVA, or affinities (The affinity bonus you get is so goddamn tiny).
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(9) squad spent their first 50 or so levelups on affinities and they turned out fine ::)
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⑨ squad spent their first 50 or so levelups on affinities and they turned out fine ::)
Really?
...Well, I guess technically it is cheaper than trying to level those affinities up via skill points in that time.
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Finally took down Reisen. She was surprisingly easy after Nitori.
To celebrate, I did some more portraits.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?miimske2l089330
[attach=1]
EDIT: I just realized I already did that first Sakuya in the last update...ah, well.
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I'll probably go around on the next floor building experience. Then'll go back to Suwako.
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Is there a way to track a character's BP? I need to know how long Chen needs to hang around in my party so I can eventually recruit Yuyuko.
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Is there a way to track a character's BP? I need to know how long Chen needs to hang around in my party so I can eventually recruit Yuyuko.
Sadly, there's no way to easily see how often you've used a character. If you've never used a character before, you can track it based on the total battles listed in your save file. Alternatively, I personally set their TP to a specific number (using equipment), and just use that number to determine how many BP I earned per grinding session.
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Is there a way to track a character's BP? I need to know how long Chen needs to hang around in my party so I can eventually recruit Yuyuko.
Offset 0x0000004A in a character file is accumulated BP (C05.ngd is Chen's). If you're comfortable with a hex editor you can just set that to whatever you need. More beneficial to grind though.
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Offset 0x0000004A in a character file is accumulated BP (C05.ngd is Chen's). If you're comfortable with a hex editor you can just set that to whatever you need. More beneficial to grind though.
You can edit the character files that way?
Hmm...would it be possible to edit a character's attack list (i.e. give Cirno Fujiyama Volcano or something)?
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You can edit the character files that way?
Hmm...would it be possible to edit a character's attack list (i.e. give Cirno Fujiyama Volcano or something)?
I'm almost certain that you can't. C##'s are Stat values, skp bonus placement, currently equiped items, BP, XP, etc. A00.ngd has toggles for acquired members, current party, total game time, max floor reached, battles fought, and some other things. B00/B01 is item inventory (B00 is normal, B01 is Plus, if I remember right). DS01-30 are the floors obviously (switch triggers and encounters probably). E00 is cutscene triggers, and F00 is all 0's so who knows (possibly for expansions).
Also Pesco wanted more Flan-Flan. If you alter "who's in the party" in A00.ngd you can put Flan in the party four (or more) times, however if one of her selves loses HP/MP, or changes equipment, they all do. This is because the game just see's "-100 hp from Character: Flandre" and all four are Flandre. The only thing that's tracked separately for each is turn gauge (which probably means that turn gauge is tracked based on slot). I guess this makes the most sense story wise. I mean Four-of-a-Kind splits one pudding into four cups, but it's still the same total amount.
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One day I'll get around to modding a save file. One day...
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Remilia has been showcased in my save file for quite while (at first it was Sakuya). What about you guys?
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Used to be Remilia, now it's Meiling. Pity, right when I made a portrait of her that I quite liked...
Also, where the hell are you supposed to meet Suwako? I'm sure I've collected all the frogs, but I still haven't run into her.
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Also, where the hell are you supposed to meet Suwako? I'm sure I've collected all the frogs, but I still haven't run into her.
She should challenge you as soon as you pick up the 8th frog. You sure you have all of them?
Remilia has been showcased in my save file for quite while (at first it was Sakuya). What about you guys?
Team Unappreciated had Keine as the save file portrait for the longest time, but once I started grinding 27F, Orin took over (she can 1-shot everything, including Nightmare Cancers, so she was all I needed for grinding there).
For my other teams, I had Mystia for one of them, and for my current team, it was Youmu for a while before changing to Ran.
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She should challenge you as soon as you pick up the 8th frog. You sure you have all of them?
I've checked the maps, and each point is blank.
Do the frogs show up in your inventory when you pick them up? ...is it possible to sell them by accident?
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Remilia has been showcased in my save file for quite while (at first it was Sakuya). What about you guys?
Like I said a page or two ago:
First file was Ran but changed to Tenshi
Second file went from Maribel
to "Shizuha" (Minoriko), but I expect it to change to Sanae soon.
You can edit the character files that way?
Hmm...would it be possible to edit a character's attack list (i.e. give Cirno Fujiyama Volcano or something)?
We've discussed this before, survey says no.
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...wow, I'm stupid. Turned out I stopped just before I got to one, so it didn't show up on the map.
Found Suwako, needless to say.
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...suddenly the english version doesn't work for me anymore. Playing in Japanese works fine.
What the hell.
EDIT: Pretend this doesn't exist, I was being a dumbass and trying to use my v3.01 exe file in my 2.06 folder :derp:
Seriously though, I can't help but wonder why we can't duplicate or replace characters. Replacing Mokou's files with Flandre's still gives me my level 19 Mokou with unchanged stat growths, levels, exp, etc. but flat-out removing her files results in the save being unplayable.
EDIT2: Oh man, I have no idea how I managed to do this when all I did was replace Mokou's files with Flan's, but
[attach=1]
Those stats don't look right to me. :derp:
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It looks like that NG+ glitch where most of the later characters are all given the same affinities and status resistances (Tenshi's, if I remember correctly). Do your other characters have altered affinities/resistances as well?
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It looks like that NG+ glitch where most of the later characters are all given the same affinities and status resistances (Tenshi's, if I remember correctly). Do your other characters have altered affinities/resistances as well?
Just Flan, because her file was the only one I messed with apparently (not sure how this didn't happen to Mokou instead).
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So I finally activated the last failsafe lock. Then I went to Gensokyo and saved. Then, when I went to meet Tenshi, I found out that I forgot to switch off the green doors.
Cue ragequit.
Anyway, would you guys suggest that I take on Tenshi before going after Sanae's Foe? I tried the latter, but got my ass swiftly handed to me in two turns.
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So I finally activated the last failsafe lock. Then I went to Gensokyo and saved. Then, when I went to meet Tenshi, I found out that I forgot to switch off the green doors.
Cue ragequit.
Anyway, would you guys suggest that I take on Tenshi before going after Sanae's Foe? I tried the latter, but got my ass swiftly handed to me in two turns.
I always fight Sanae's Foe before Tenshi (actually, before exploring 10-12F). If you know his attack pattern and how to exploit it with proper strategy and gear, you can beat him at level 40-ish. Hope this helps. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvgHgxfYIjk)
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Like Para said, I personally went for Sanae's Foe immediately after recruiting Ran. With the proper strategy it's a rather manageable fight.
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Foes are pretty easy when you know the gimmick.
If you don't feel like doing the whole 10-12F walkabout, I posted the cheat addresses to manipulate the barriers some time back in this thread.
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Flandre defeated. I got REALLY lucky that Iron Ring decided to land its PAR proc three times in a row near the end, and I managed to dismantle her with Eirin and Nitori before she even got a chance to use Laevatein at all :V
EDIT (Some time later):
OK, so I challenged Yukari and took her down (Discarder made the fight sooooo easy), and I managed to bug out her forms by dealing enough damage for force her to use two Djinn Storms in a row, but despite keeping her 1st form sprite, she still used 3rd form specific spells after that (IN Quadratic Barrier, Objective Barrier, and then Hyperactive Flying Object). What's up with that? Also, does that still mean that I was screwed out of a chance to get the Gran Grimoire? (Not like I could've gotten it if I wasn't anyways, since I have crappy luck with those 25% drops, but I want to know for boss rush)
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So started playing this again today. Had taken a break for awhile (been playing the original Starcraft campaigns) because the grinding was boring me. :V
Up to Reimu 343 now though, still not looking forward to more grinding. At least I should be strong enough to take on most of the Bloodstained Seals Ver.2 soon, after which I should be ready to grind on the "more interesting" 30F. Thank god for that :D
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So started playing this again today. Had taken a break for awhile (been playing the original Starcraft campaigns) because the grinding was boring me. :V
Up to Reimu 343 now though, still not looking forward to more grinding. At least I should be strong enough to take on most of the Bloodstained Seals Ver.2 soon, after which I should be ready to grind on the "more interesting" 30F. Thank god for that :D
grinding for 30f is by far the least impressive portion of Labyrinth of touhou. Assuming you enjoyed the game otherwise (and you're clearly a mentally handicapped fool if you don't! (don't take that seriously)), I really suggest starting a NG+ and re-enjoying it using a mostly-different party again if you are having a hart time being motivated to start playing it again.
If you can't take on the seal-bosses v2 still...uhh. yeah you still got quite a ways for the 30f bosses unfortunately >=( It's pretty stupid how friggin' much of a grind you require for 30f. it's like what should be on 40f IF it existed.
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grinding for 30f is by far the least impressive portion of Labyrinth of touhou. Assuming you enjoyed the game otherwise (and you're clearly a mentally handicapped fool if you don't! (don't take that seriously)), I really suggest starting a NG+ and re-enjoying it using a mostly-different party again if you are having a hart time being motivated to start playing it again.
If you can't take on the seal-bosses v2 still...uhh. yeah you still got quite a ways for the 30f bosses unfortunately >=( It's pretty stupid how friggin' much of a grind you require for 30f. it's like what should be on 40f IF it existed.
Lol, I know what you mean there. I'll be there before long though, and it'll get at least a bit better for awhile on 30F. And yeah, they definitely overdid it on the final bosses of the Plus Disk. I did enjoy the main game and the Plus Disk quite a bit up until this point. I just figure I'll fit in some grinding here and there while I do other things, like watch Sunday Night Football for instance (quite an odd match-up there :V).
Anyways, I will get there eventually. Because I will feel defeated by the game if I don't. And that, I cannot allow. Game must be defeated!
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So, does anyone know about the oddity of Yukari's forms? To recap, I managed to deal enough damage to her after the first Djinn Storm that she Djinn Stormed again immediately, and then she never used Barrier Release to change form - however, she then started using 3rd form specific skills nevertheless. I thought that if you bug out her forms she'll be stuck in her first form, moves and all? Also, does that screw me out of a chance at getting the Gran Grimoire?
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What version are you playing, and do you have spell animations on or off?
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3.01, and I have animation on (I don't know hot to turn it off, and regardless I don't want to turn it off).
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The Ver.3 bosses will still drop their items even if you kill them before they change into their final form, so I'd assume you can still get the Gran Grimoire no matter which form you defeat her in.
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So, does anyone know about the oddity of Yukari's forms? To recap, I managed to deal enough damage to her after the first Djinn Storm that she Djinn Stormed again immediately, and then she never used Barrier Release to change form - however, she then started using 3rd form specific skills nevertheless. I thought that if you bug out her forms she'll be stuck in her first form, moves and all? Also, does that screw me out of a chance at getting the Gran Grimoire?
I've seen this before. It's because of the logic behind her triggers. If you kill her too fast (By having her Speed reduced and having fast SP recovering characters nuking her again), she will trigger Djinn Storm again. However, as that overrides her attempt to use Barrier Release, it leaves her in 'phase 1' visually; and there's gotta be a check before the second barrier release. However, the actual change of phase occurs during Djinn Storm.
Either way, it seems an effective way to defeat her to do this, as it means you don't have to worry about her defenses being significantly boosted
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One of the thing I noticed is that forcing her to use both Djinn Storm in a row was NOT effective at stopping her from using phase 3 moves, because after the 2nd Djinn Storm she used IN Quadratic Border, Objective Border, and (after Reisen gets off a Discarder forcing her SPD to go in negative again) Hyperactive Flying Object in that sequence, and none of those moves are used in phase 1.
As long as it doesn't screw me a chance at getting that Gran Grimoire, though... I sure don't want that happen when I boss rush. Oh and a question about boss rush - does it reset to Ver2 automatically after I clear it once, or is there some way to leave it at Ver1? I have terrible luck with those 25% item drops this run and sure wouldn't mind extra chances at getting some of them...
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There probably is a stage trigger to keep the boss rush at ver1, but because the drop you get from completing it is supposed to be a limited item, you're probably better off getting the drops you want from floor trash.
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I'm pretty sure you've only got 1 shot at the boss rush before it changes to Ver.2. Besides the Gran Grimoire, there aren't other good drops I can think of that are unique to the boss rush. And the Gran Grimoire itself gets outclassed pretty easily by trash mob drops in the Plus Disk (Anima Crystals and Dewprisms come to mind), so I wouldn't stress out over it. Most of your stuff will be overshadowed by Plus Disk gear anyway.
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Your total stat is equal to:
(Starting Stat) + (Stat Growth * Levels Gained * Level Multiplier) * (1 + Level Bonus + Skill Points + Equipment)
Level Bonus = 0.02 per bonus given
Skill Points = 0.03 per skill level
The Level Multiplier is a latent additional multiplier to your growth rate gained for each level that's separate from your level bonus, so characters with faster leveling rates will benefit more than slower leveling characters. Its existance is not well-documented aside from a single line mentioning it on the wiki, as far as I know, but it's quite easy to see if you test it out yourself, even if it can be difficult to measure. However, the thing that's really interesting about it is that its value is different depending on which stat you're looking at. It's also why the actual amount of a stat you gain per level up doesn't match the growth rates (for example, Reimu has a listed SP growth rate of 20, but it only really increases by 2-3 points per level if you have no level bonuses or skill points). If you level a character from 1 to a much higher value in one go, you'll notice that you gain more stats per level the higher you go, even without skill points or any other bonuses. That's the effect of the Level Multiplier.
I can't say I've measured it down exactly, but after running some tests with my higher level files, here are my estimates for the Level Multipliers for each stat:
HP: 1.20 + 0.03 per level
SP: 0.125 (this value never goes up regardless of level)
ATK: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
DEF: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
MAG: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
MND: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
SPD: 0.0225 + 0.000645 per level
It's close, but there's a discrepancy in how the base stat is handled, I think. Using the above formula, assuming I put it into Excel correctly, I calculated out what ought to be Reimu's base level 380 stats (why 380? because this is what she hit with 200 million EXP). The formula gave me values of 57264 HP, 1050 SP, 26361 ATK, 19769 DEF, 29654 MAG, 29653 MND, and 909 SPD.
I then launched TL (3.01) and proceeded to level Reimu on a new game to level 380, assigning no skill points or levelup bonuses. Her stats actually came out at 57446 HP, 1050 SP, 26383 ATK, 19776 DEF, 29669 MAG, 29661 MND, and 915 SPD, for an error of 182 points in HP, 22 in ATK, 7 in DEF, 15 in MAG, 8 in MND and 6 in SPD.
Out of curiosity, I tried the same thing with Marisa (using the same level, though such a parallel wouldn't happen in normal gameplay, to try and pinpoint what was producing this discrepancy). For Marisa, I got predicted stats of 42951 HP/1335 SP/9887 ATK/16475 DEF/42833 MAG/39538 MND/1213 SPD versus actual stats of 43121/1335/9909/16482/42848/39545/1220, for an error of 170 points in HP, 22 in ATK, 7 in DEF, 15 in MAG, 7 in MND and 7 in SPD. Curiously, in spite of the giant difference between Reimu and Marisa's ATK bases and growths, they ended up with exactly the same 22 point discrepancy in ATK.
Finding this odd, I tried running the numbers with Remilia, again level 380. For her, I got predicted stats of 90662/480/52705/32948/13181/29653/1314, and actual stats of 90870/480/51757/32955/13196/29661/1322, for an error of 208 points in HP, -948 in ATK, 7 in DEF, 15 in MAG, 8 in MND and 8 in SPD. All almost the same errors... except for that *huge* ATK discrepancy. Which I'm willing to bet is explained by the fact that Remilia's base ATK is abnormally low relative to her ATK growth.
So, that formula is failing to perform some modification on base stats over the course of adding additional levels which doesn't become remarkably apparent except in the one odd case where the growth rate and base stats don't sync (Remilia). I'm no math expert and can't really claim to know what's missing, though...
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In all honesty, with the exception of Remilia's attack, that is an extremely miniscule difference - especially at level 380. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
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Oh, definitely - it's close enough to have a good enough idea of where stats are going to fall long term.
Given the high numbers stats have at that level, those discrepancies are so small as to be virtually meaningless, yeah.
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Every attempt I made using that formula has been accurate to the number for me I'm pretty sure, I'll try again when I'm at my CPU.
Those deviations are fairly small though.
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i have a pretty odd question but is there any way to make 1-20th floor available by modifying your save files?
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It's quite possible, but atm :effort: to find out how.
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It's quite possible, but atm :effort: to find out how.
ah ok :D
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Oh, I see what's wrong with your stat math already. you're not using the right formula, the right one is the one I posted. It has no "starting value" as a thing in the formula, but is compensated instead by stuff like levelX5(statgrowth) + constant + etc.
Use that one.
Using "starting growth" as a stat isn't accurate because the starting value gets cheated of the 0.02% bonus gained per level..or something, I'm too lazy, but I'm sure it's something like that, just try it >=P.
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i have a pretty odd question but is there any way to make 1-20th floor available by modifying your save files?
Floor checkpoints are in stored E00.ngd. The file is actually filled with toggles for viewed cutscenes, and it looks like when you trip the cutscene for discovering/activating a checkpoint (0x000000D2 is 2F for example) it toggles another value (0x000000D3) for the Teleport Menu. I'd find out the other floors but it would mean a lot of trial and error... :effort:
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Floor checkpoints are in stored E00.ngd. The file is actually filled with toggles for viewed cutscenes, and it looks like when you trip the cutscene for discovering/activating a checkpoint (0x000000D2 is 2F for example) it toggles another value (0x000000D3) for the Teleport Menu. I'd find out the other floors but it would mean a lot of trial and error... :effort:
or you could take an E00.ngd from a completed save file
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or you could take an E00.ngd from a completed save file
Yeah I don't know what that would do, but I'm guessing bad things.
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Yeah I don't know what that would do, but I'm guessing bad things.
Doubt it'd hurt, that's how I reset character stats.
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Doubt it'd hurt, that's how I reset character stats.
Well all the cutscenes would be triggered so no dialog, and I don't know how it would handle (!) encounters (especially Ver.1 -> Ver.2 boss rush)
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Well all the cutscenes would be triggered so no dialog, and I don't know how it would handle (!) encounters (especially Ver.1 -> Ver.2 boss rush)
One way to find out. BV
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One way to find out. BV
I just tested it w/ a complete game file, and the cutscene when you first enter 1F does not trigger. I'm not in a position to test v1 -> v2 battles, assuming that info is tracked in E00.ngd and not the relevent floor file (D##.ngd)
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Finally beat Sanae's Foe, and I only lost four party members. Hellz yeah.
Now to level grind for Eientei...
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?1421496h4s1kb78
[attach=1]
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Oh, I see what's wrong with your stat math already. you're not using the right formula, the right one is the one I posted. It has no "starting value" as a thing in the formula, but is compensated instead by stuff like levelX5(statgrowth) + constant + etc.
Use that one.
Using "starting growth" as a stat isn't accurate because the starting value gets cheated of the 0.02% bonus gained per level..or something, I'm too lazy, but I'm sure it's something like that, just try it >=P.
I figured it would be something like that, yeah. I'll give it a try later when I've got free time and check it out.
Edit: Okay, messed with it now, and yeah, your formula comes out right on the dot for atk/mag/def/mnd... except for Remilia's ATK, again (but that's closer, this time). To make sure I'm not plugging in numbers wrong...
(Level+4 * Growth Rate + constant{just take their starting value - level statuprate*5 to get it, I think it's normally 3 though}) * (1+0.02(level-1) + 0.02(times selected stat for level up bonus) + 0.04(skill level - 1) + ItemStats)
So, with that hypothetical level 380 Remilia I mentioned above at base stats...
(380+4 * 16 + (69 - (16 * 5))) * (1 + 0.02(380-1) + 0.02(0) + 0.04(1-1) + 0)
Simplify...
(384 * 16 + -11) * (8.58)
6133 * 8.58 = 52621.14
But, for Remilia, I'm getting an in-game total of 51757.
It works 100% perfectly on all the other characters (and all of Remi's other stats), though, as far as I can tell. Also, as for decimals, it seems to truncate them generally, although SP doesn't seem to always follow that behavior.
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The first Youmu looks amazing.
And the first Orin is adorable :3
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Which set of BGM do you guys perfer, the old ones or the special disk ones?
I mostly perfer the new ones, but Dark A Liar (final boss) to me sounds infinitely better than whatever its replacement is called.
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Some of the old ones like Darkaliar are really good and overshadow the new tracks. Only new tracks I like are the Bloody Seal ones and the 30F boss ones(After that little scary intro they have).
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Some of the old ones like Darkaliar are really good and overshadow the new tracks. Only new tracks I like are the Bloody Seal ones and the 30F boss ones(After that little scary intro they have).
The only new ones I really like are Retribution for the Eternal Night, Bloody Seal (don't really care for the organ intro, but the piano and flute are <3), and 20F bosses...Eastern Youkai Beauty isn't bad, but something about the flute bothers me (is it supposed to be a pan flute or something? I don't remember any of the flutes the band members owned in middle school or high school having the same tone even with mouthpiece angle adjustments) and it could use more "pop". The Gensokyo tracks are fine (don't really care for Akyu's though because I like the original that much better). Sleepless Night is okay, but I don't care for the synthy portion otherwise I could bump it up to "like".
Whatever the hell track 00 on the BGM rip is qualifies as terribad IMO, the new track used for the Serpent of Chaos is boring (if the fight wasn't so long I might not have as low of an opinion on it), and the mastering on basically the rest of the tracks is as flat as Remilia (some of the instruments on the Lunatic Princess arrange also remind me of the old QuickTime instruments from the late 90s).
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I like the old tracks better in almost every situation except for the kaggy fight. I love the new kaggy remix. I'm quite surprised that nobody else mentions it. Do people really hate her themesong? I think it's one of Zun's best! *shrugs*. Oh, and the "mook" boss themes are good, you know, like ifrit, great stamp, etc.
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I like the old tracks better in almost every situation except for the kaggy fight. I love the new kaggy remix. I'm quite surprised that nobody else mentions it. Do people really hate her themesong? I think it's one of Zun's best! *shrugs*. Oh, and the "mook" boss themes are good, you know, like ifrit, great stamp, etc.
The original Eientei theme is just too awesome to skip on.
Anyway, Sleepless Night is decent, Bloodstained Seal theme is good too, 18F boss theme's also nice. Aside from that, originals all the way.
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The original Eientei theme is just too awesome to skip on.
Anyway, Sleepless Night is decent, Bloodstained Seal theme is good too, 18F boss theme's also nice. Aside from that, originals all the way.
I thought the original Eientei theme was pretty bland, boring, and...lame. I think you're just a kaggy hater. Cuz of her skin colour, and her hair colour....Knave.
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I thought the original Eientei theme was pretty bland, boring, and...lame.
Which also more or less describes the Special Disc's Lunatic Princess arrangement :3 Any good qualities about it come from the original.
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Which also more or less describes the Special Disc's Lunatic Princess arrangement :3 Any good qualities about it come from the original.
That may be so...But the original has a lot of good qualities imo >=P. I find it's one of the more "faithful" remixes of the original, and the original is, as I said, one of Zun's best IMO.
I just get the impression that most people don't like the original very much even. It's all musical tastes so nothing really bugs me, I just find it surprising that Kaggy's theme is so...soo...unmentioned. Not just in Touhou labyrinth, but in all of Touhou. Poor kaggy. she's like in my top 5 character too. The fanboy inside me hurts! hold me ='(
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Personally, the only songs from the Special Disk that I would easily take over the originals are the town songs, Yukari's fight, Eientei's fight, and whatever song plays when you're fighting the Foes.
18F's theme got all the epicness sucked out of it, the Bloodstained Seal theme is wildly unfitting, the final boss theme is dull, the Plus bosses' theme is much duller than the original, and many of the other battle themes are interchangeable.
I never was a fan of Lunatic Princess, but the LoT arrange has a lot going for it.
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I just get the impression that most people don't like the original very much even. It's all musical tastes so nothing really bugs me, I just find it surprising that Kaggy's theme is so...soo...unmentioned. Not just in Touhou labyrinth, but in all of Touhou. Poor kaggy. she's like in my top 5 character too. The fanboy inside me hurts! hold me ='(
Lunatic Princess is good, I don't love it, but I prefer it over about half the songs from IN. Also, you pic indicates you like the Patch-meiset more then Hourai NEET :P
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Lunatic Princess is good, I don't love it, but I prefer it over about half the songs from IN. Also, you pic indicates you like the Patch-meiset more then Hourai NEET :P
Patchy is top 3... Kaggy is top 5 =)
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Level grinding, why do you hate me so...
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?48l25sfgxb4axi4
[attach=1]
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All the samples look like ass on my phone, but from what I can tell, that last patchy image is going to Own.
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there really needs to be an easy method for F10-12
I'm in NO position to go through it without an easy method -.-'''
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there really needs to be an easy method for F10-12
I'm in NO position to go through it without an easy method -.-'''
Cheat engine :getdown:
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Cheat engine :getdown:
I endorse this product/service :V
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I find the whole ordeal pretty easy now that I know how to do it. I personally feel that 13f is more tedious and time consuming if you want to explore every part.
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Another BP question.
I need 3k BP between (many chars) to take on Flandre
, but what exactly does "between" mean? Do I need 3k BP each, or can I have say 2999 for Marisa and 1 for Reimu and it'll be sufficient?
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Yep, 2k on one char and 1k on another is fine. The amount they all have needs to add up to 3k.
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Thank you muchly. :V
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18F is down yay~ Although I did grind to Reimu105 for it (my level up bonus and sklil point plan was kind of botched, and I spent a lot of SP on chars I now never use due to the fact that I was still experimenting with many of them). Tried a few times at Reimu96 and while I probably could've beat him back then, it requires a lot of luck not having key members taking out early in the fight, while at Reimu105 I lost half my nukes before even getting past starting form (I have crappy sense of timing and do not like speed buffers), Minoriko about halfway through due to forgetting to heal her, most of my other nukes as the fight dragged on (i ended up making Ran attack instead, and having Marisa spark each form once - needless to say, had to play with MYS form twice), and Yukari ended up getting stuck in slot 4 due to TP<2 with her crappy 16% rec. Remilia, who was getting neglected for a while, was awesome towards the end (since I was really, really running out of attackers, and she ended up spearing down the boss by herself).
One last boss to go~ Well, except the bloodstained seals. Should I take out the two I can fight before facing 20F boss?
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I'd leave a save before the Bloody Seal bosses, cause I think they are awesome ^-^ but yes, fight them if you can, the extra Exp helps for Final Boss.
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Took down Baal Avatar last-second style. Most of my team held out, but couldn't heal Tenshi in time, so she died to an Iai Slash. Then, later, after the third Demon Sealing Dance, another Iai Slash took out Reimu, Rinnosuke, Meiling, all fully healed and buffed all at once and left Nitori at death's door. Had Patchy and I think Kaguya? sitting in back, but decided to take a risk, fire off a linear gun, and won :D
Later died to 25F sigil guardian after exploring the part he was in D:
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Is there a reason why that, when I'm playing 3.01, people still lose all their skill points when they're recruited in an NG+ file?
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You might be using some save file components from previous versions.
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How should I recopy my save file so that doesn't happen, then? I can put it on another slot or something.
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I think if you recopy a 3.01 Save_NaN or something like that to your save folder, it should fix that problem.
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I think if you recopy a 3.01 Save_NaN or something like that to your save folder, it should fix that problem.
Yeah, this.
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16F boss disappointed me.. [they] got locked in 1st form, cause Suwako would nuke for >130k apiece... and whenever I wasn't able to do that [they] just would flat-out kill me over time in another form. Too awesome, or not awesome enough.. it wasn't an easy choice
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Once you know how to fight 16F, it's not that hard.
Also:
> Prepare shanking stuff.
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> Prepare shanking stuff.
More like: Prepare new thread :V
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Anyone have a save file at the fight against Eientei?
inb4 this goes unnoticed with the new thread being made. :V
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I do.
...which brings me to a confession. I cheated my way to level 70-something for Eientei. The level grinding finally got to me. On the plus side, the next several floors should be easier, since I forgot to turn off the cheat and now I'm around level 110.
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I do.
...which brings me to a confession. I cheated my way to level 70-something for Eientei.
Holy hell, why so high? :V
I mean without the fight cleared, by the way. If so, can you upload the file somewhere?
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It was somewhat accidental, and I didn't want to take any more risks than I had to.
Plus, I got to laugh at them while all their attacks did 0 damage. :V
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?2mpv8919s6b8bv8