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If this looks familiar, it's because it's ripped off from Poosh. :V
In this thread, ask for the sources of doujinshi pages, artist sites and pixiv pages, original versions of edited images, meanings of internet memes, and anything else you can think of. Questions like "HOW DO I BEAT THIS SPELLCARD (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=389.0)?” or "WHAT IS THIS VIDEO PARODYING (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=179.0)?" and such are all more than welcome here (better yet, in their respective specialized threads). We do artist sourcing, music identifying, you name it. Even if it doesn't have to do directly with Touhou, please ASK HERE rather than creating an entirely new thread for it.
Useful Links: PLEASE CHECK THESE BEFORE ASKING
http://www.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Category:Characters - For questions about a Touhou character such as “Why is Reimu always flashing her armpits?”
http://iqdb.org/ or http://iqdb.hanyuu.net/ - Image search sites. Use these to find cleaner or higher resolution versions of certain images, or the artist of a certain picture.
Bug Report Thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=46.0) - Ask here if the forums are acting strange for you.
Danmakufu Guide (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=18.0) - Links to the wonderful folks over at Rika's Garage, who will be more than glad to help you out. (And chances are that if you've come here for Danmakufu help, you've already found your way there anyway.)
If those sites fail to give what you are looking for, then please post your query here. If you as a question at one point and it doesn't get answered in a significant span of time, please don't hesitate to ask again. We may not have been able to answer the question at that time, but our knowledge has likely changed since then. If you feel that your question is being ignored, rest assured that it is not; we simply do not have an answer for you.
Also, no question is too stupid to ask. Here, we will answer you truthfully and without trolling. These boards have active moderators, and people who lie in their answers will be dealt with.
The same rules apply here as they do to the board at large, of course: No links to game downloads (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1647.0), no warez, etc etc. You know the drill (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=17.0).
Much thanks and love to everyone who helps out with answering questions. Feel free to suggest stuff that I can do to improve this header.
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What is the etymology of "Remilia"? A quick census search (http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?cj=1&sid=ancestry.cs-20090510&pcc=2&gsfn=remilia&prox=1&rank=1&gl=usfedcen&gss=affiliate&o_xid=0000295820&o_lid=0000295820) won't even help me place the proper nationality/ethnicity, though it sounds Italian to me.
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French. Remi is a french boy's name and is just derived from that, it doesn't mean anything in particular. Flandre as well, is French.
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Who was the one who led the mission to help Byakuren? I thought it might be Shou since she's the stage 5 boss, but none of the others seem to mention her , let alone credit her as the one leading the rescue, and her own dialogue doesn't seem to take credit for planning the rescue. In fact, all they ever talk about is Byakuren, but Byakuren's dialogue indicates she had no idea they were planning to save her from her seal, so she can't be the one who masterminded the plan. As such, I'm at a bit of a loss regarding which was the one who led the charge...
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They just got together. I don't think there was one particular driving force.
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It was CAPTAIN MURASA. Or at any rate, it keeps referring to "Captain Murasa and her crew" in the manuals and stuff.
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French. Remi is a french boy's name and is just derived from that, it doesn't mean anything in particular. Flandre as well, is French.
I think the name Remilia has also historically been used in England.
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Why is our new Global Mod so smexy? Just checking in to offer my services. :V
Who was the one who led the mission to help Byakuren?
Well, according to the translation of Shou's bio:
"A few hundred years after Byakuren disappeared, the temple was in great disarray. And so, Byakuren's friends who'd been sealed deep beneath the earth returned.
She didn't want to have any more regrets. She wouldn't run away.
She told Murasa and the others how to lift the seal. She was, after all, a youkai.
She wanted to put all her power into bringing Byakuren back.
"In order to break the seal, we'll need the power of Myouren, Byakuren's brother.
And the only things left are a flying treasury and the floating treasures...
Murasa, let's take the ship and go look for it!""
And from Murasa's:
"A few hundred years passed.
Byakuren, the youkai saviour, had been captured and sealed by humans.
At the same time, anything related to Byakuren was buried deep beneath the earth.
Murasa, too, had been buried deep beneath the earth with the Tobikura.
She never imagined she would be sent flying back above ground by a geyser.
And so, she made a pledge:
"This time, I'll be the one to save Byakuren. Yes, riding the ship that Byakuren created."
So Shou's the one who suggested the idea initially, but Murasa's bio seems to indicate she wanted to do it anyway. So you could consider it being Shou who led, but it was pretty much a combined effort.
(And unrelated note, perusing Shou's bio reveals that Nazrin is originally Bishamonten's helper who was assigned to Shou to keep tabs on her. Interesting.)
Hey Drake, What kind of gear does ZUN use to create music?
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Edirol SD-90 and various sound management programs for editing.
The SD-90 would be where are the sounds come from. SD-20 is also similar.
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Let's see...
America = Americans
Asia = Asian
Japan = Japanese
Gensokyo = ?
Or do we just call them 'Touhous'?
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I've seen 'Gensokyoan' and 'denizen of Gensokyo', but predominantly people just refer to the characters collectively as 'Touhous'.
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Flandre as well, is French.
Which is in itself derived from the Dutch word 'Vlaanderen'. (Flandres/Vlaanderen is a part of Belgium in which mainly Dutch is spoken).
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Wait, how do the characters fight canon-wise?
Eosd, PCB, IN, MoF, SA and UFO?
Pofv?
IaMP?
SWR, UNL?
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What do you mean by "How do the characters fight"? Do you mean, 'How does the danmaku battle represent what is "really" happening'?
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Wait, how do the characters fight canon-wise?
Eosd, PCB, IN, MoF, SA and UFO?
Pofv?
IaMP?
SWR, UNL?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xckUtOBOOO4
I think this is the most accurate description of real life danmaku battling.
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What do you mean by "How do the characters fight"? Do you mean, 'How does the danmaku battle represent what is "really" happening'?
How the spellcard system actually works in canon. It's confusing considering there are 3-5 different depictions on how spellcard battles are fought.
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I think the best way to describe it is "it doesn't work" and that apart from SSiB, which somewhat contradicts the "actually DEFEAT them!" mechanic, ZUN hasn't really specified anything in particular. I've come up with my own thing (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=danmaku), but it's far from canon (and it was made specifically for my comic and fanfics).
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The wiki entry on Spellcard (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_Card)s has pretty much everything we could ever tell you that wouldn't start divulging into theory and fanon.
Of particular interest to you, the PMiSS segment:
It was specified in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense that the Spell Card system was developed by Reimu and first used in the Scarlet Mist incident. They were designed to give even weak youkai and humans a chance to win, as well as to provide youkai a way to defeat the Hakurei Shrine in a fair duel. They are described as pieces of paper bearing the descriptions of their respective spells, along with the possible approval of the shrine maiden.
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How exactly does blocking work in UNL?
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Would this be of help?
http://swr.mizuumi.net/index.php/Blocking
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Press the opposite direction that your character are facing, or "4".
Any other details are on the wiki.
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*Calms own self down*
This question has already been posted on that site before, but I want to ask it here to see your views.
Here goes (paraphrased) :
Why do the bosses take so many shots to go down when Reimu, Marisa, etc. only take one shot to go down?
Or why does your character go down in 1 hit? I thought this is a fair danmaku fight.
By the way, the answer posted there was on the lines of:
This is Gensokyo.
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*Calms own self down*
This question has already been posted on that site before, but I want to ask it here to see your views.
Here goes (paraphrased) :
Why do the bosses take so many shots to go down when Reimu, Marisa, etc. only take one shot to go down?
Or why does your character go down in 1 hit? I thought this is a fair danmaku fight.
By the way, the answer posted there was on the lines of:
Because it's a bullet hell shmup, and that's how bullet hell shmups work. The lolis and pretty music are just window dressing.
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Honestly the above answer is about as closest to the truth as you'll get. There are various theories by various people about what it's like from the characters' perspective, but it'll never be a perfect fit to the game mechanics as is.
The way I view it is, the protagonist is the challenger so she doesn't need to use her own spellcards, she just has to get through the challenged's spellcards to make her yield. Bombing is essentially cheating so there's a limit to how much you can acceptably do it before breaking the pact that binds all Gensokyoans to the conflict-resolution spellcard system.
Note that the above is just one way to look at it, and any further discussion could easily be turned into its own thread if anyone wants to discuss it further. :3
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Now I've got another question to ask.
Yukari's ability is to manipulate borders, right?
What exactly is a border?
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From the PMiSS portion of the Wiki for Yukari (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo)
Yukari's power to manipulate boundaries gives her power over all sorts of things and is comparable to the powers of the gods.
Her manipulation of boundaries even affect illusion and reality, or the fictional and the actual.
She can travel anywhere through gaps in space and cannot be followed through them, and can freely travel through the Hakurei Border.
She could also simply reach a hand through a gap in space and steal people's food from a distance.
Because Gensokyo itself exists due to the boundary around it, Yukari could supposedly destroy Gensokyo if she wished.
So, 'all sorts of things' is the answer. Taken literally, it's hard to find something that doesn't have a border of some kind, because the world is divided into discreet portions. (In all actually, it's more continuous than it seems, but humans can't help but think of things discreetly. I.E. temperature, time, weight, etc.)
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So it wouldn't be exaggerating if I said she has the boundary over life and death or maybe something like boundary of victory and defeat?
From the PMiSS portion of the Wiki for Yukari (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo)
So, 'all sorts of things' is the answer. Taken literally, it's hard to find something that doesn't have a border of some kind, because the world is divided into discreet portions. (In all actually, it's more continuous than it seems, but humans can't help but think of things discreetly. I.E. temperature, time, weight, etc.)
Fast reply is fast.
EDIT: Added another question. So in theory, can I also say that she has access to every ability that all the other characters have and more?
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EDIT: Added another question. So in theory, can I also say that she has access to every ability that all the other characters have and more?
As long as it is worded correctly, I presume, yes. Boundary between This Moment and the Next = Time Stop; Boundary of Fiction and Reality = Magic and Anti-Magic; Boundary of Life and Death = Immortality; extrapolate to everything else you can imagine.
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Part of what makes Touhou so receptive to fanworks and 'fanon' is that there's so much left up to interpretation. There's a lot to theorize about because everything is so open ended. Yukari's manipulation of boundaries is one such ability that has been used to much creative effect in fandom.
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As long as it is worded correctly, I presume, yes. Boundary between This Moment and the Next = Time Stop; Boundary of Fiction and Reality = Magic and Anti-Magic; Boundary of Life and Death = Immortality; extrapolate to everything else you can imagine.
Personally, I think she'd only ever need to use "Boundary of Fair Play and Cheating". Which would kinda suit her, now that I think about it...
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Personally, I think she'd only ever need to use "Boundary of Fair Play and Cheating". Which would kinda suit her, now that I think about it...
Boundary of fanon and canon :V
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What's a clip?
Then clipdeath and so on and so forth?
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What's a clip?
Then clipdeath and so on and so forth?
Clipping is when you just barely hit the edge of a bullet's hitbox, usually as a result of grazing too closely. Thus, a clipdeath is dying in such a manner.
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Clip and clipdeath are the same. There's not really a solid definition you could come up with, it's just deaths that really shouldn't have happened judging from the distance between you and the bullet. Stuff that if you were even a few pixels off, could have avoided.
Go play MoF stage 6 and try Kanako's second card. It looks like you'll survive getting through a gap, but you might just die anyways.
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Sounds more like kanako's third to me.
The knives are negligible, but the waves of blue spheres gets me everytime unless I bomb or bug shot.
Yes i still use marisa bugged, I just don't abuse the glitch, it's still my best shot type.
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ZUN released a patch for that long ago.
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Actually... he didn't lol
The Vsync patch does have an option to disable it, though.
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What ? I could swear a patch was released for MoF like after eternity. Or am I becoming already demented?
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There was, but it didn't fix Marisa-B.
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How exactly do I add a photo to the thread? Theres the button in the menu while I'm posting, but I'm not sure how to add it. Do I type in the file name? orrrrrrrrrr.
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Just put the URL to the image in between the [ img ] and [/ img ] tags. Also, make sure you aren't hotlinking either.
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Just put the URL to the image in between the [ img ] and [/ img ] tags. Also, make sure you aren't hotlinking either.
Ahhhhhhh, I see, thank you very much!
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This is something that seems to vary from source to source, so I'm hoping you guys would have a definite answer:
Does Mokou's hatred extend to the entire Eintei crew, or does she only hate Kaguya? That is, does she hate Eirin/Reisen/Tewi/etc. as well, or does she only hold her grudge against Kaguya specifically?
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She seems to get along okay with the other Eientei dwellers, from what I've seen... It's just Kaguya she's got a problem with.
...And even then, she mostly seems to be fighting her out of habit nowadays. The way I see it, she doesn't really hate her anymore, she's just trying to kill her over and over again because that's all she really knows anymore.
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Yeah, she gets along fine with Reisen at least in Inaba of the Mearth ... I mean, I can understand her not getting along with Tewi. It's not clear if she's actually met Tewi or Eirin ...
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Not sure if this kinda question goes in this thread, but whatever.
Anyway, a few months back I remember browsing youtube videos on some Touhou game or another, I don't really remember. ANYWAY at the time I saw gameplay videos of some Touhou fangame, and something just reminded me of it, and I'm kind of interested in maybe trying it later. But I can't because I don't remember its name, nor do I remember the string of videolinks I took to find it.
It was NOT the touhou bomberman game, but it looked somewhat like it. The players were bigger, there were less obstacles on the map than on bomberman, but you get the same multiplayer boxed in together type deal where they try to kill each other. Kinda like a bomberman meets 2D super smash bros or something. Almost like mystical chain, except you could move up and down, and it was clearly multiplayer oriented.
If anybody could give me the name I'd appreciate it.
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Touhou Rekkaden.
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Touhou Rekkaden.
*searches youtube for this and watches videos*
Yup, that's it! Thank you very much.
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Just out of curiosity, who is the god of the Hakurei shrine?
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Nobody knows.
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Nobody knows.
This is true, not even Reimu. Though I read somewhere that Mima might know. Of course this might be one of many Mima-obsessive fans who is just saying that.
Another lore question for myself. I've seen some screenshots and videos of SDM girls up to some of their antics. I know the SDM cast, Remi, Flandre, Sakuya, Patchy, Hong, Patchy's imp, oodles of fairy maids. (all 3 of my top 3 touhou characters are SDM characters btw, I'm a SDM whore). ANYWAY sometimes I see a strange blonde-character who I don't know. I can't post links or whatever (sorry), but I'll try to refer one example I remember clearest of all.
A certain Aya-obsessive fan on these forums (not sure what his name is atm) once posted on Cirno's some video link about Remi and her gang constructing a spaceship, and Remi launching herself there or whatever. In the video, it showed Patchy walking past a mirror occasionally, and her reflection would show this said strange blonde character I don't know. WTF is that? Touhou wiki does NOT mention Patchy having an alter ego. I've seen this character later in some screen shot later on, and it became a broken link shortly after I found it. Anybody know? Anybody even know wtf I'm talking about? I asked some people already and they think I'm pulling this out of my ass.
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Since you're talking about EoSD, my guess would be on Rin Satsuki. Blond-haired would fit the image given to her by the fans.
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...Post a link to that video, Ghaleon...
Does the girl look anything like this?
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2vj7v5y.png)
Because if so, she is mai waifu Rin Satsuki. Looks like I've not been doing my job right if people still don't recognise her, grumble-grumble...
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I think he's talking about that creepy ZUNart video that was a sort of retelling of the first part of the SDM's involvement in SSiB. Hmm ... I don't have a link handy ...
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No it's not Rin, and I don't have a link to that video handy. I'll keep an eye out for it though. She had longer hair than Rin.
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Knowing the song played during the video actually made the search very easy. It is "Cry for the Moon" by "Epica". :V
This is the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sjAeBtdQRc).
The mirror scene in question is at about 2:25 into the video.
The figure in the mirror is Koakuma, as is evidenced by the head-wings. The confusion results from her hair having a shade of orange rather than the dark red it is usually depicted with.
Q.E.D.
*killed by ripples of 495 years*
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Eh.. that's it all right, thought she was blonde. Thanks though, could have sworn I saw a blonde girl I didn't recognize related to patchy somehow from a pic too. But chances are that was a mistake too.
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Why, in the extra stage of eosd, is patchy's hair blue?
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ZUN applied random hues to pretty much every sprite in Extra Stage for reasons nobody knows. Even Koakuma was changed, and she was never used.
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Is there a particular trick to triggering the Merlin glitch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU2Z6VobIvc) in PCB? I've tried several times to purposely set it off, but she always transitions into Concerto Grosso correctly.
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As far as I know, it's purely random.
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Is there a particular trick to triggering the Merlin glitch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU2Z6VobIvc) in PCB? I've tried several times to purposely set it off, but she always transitions into Concerto Grosso correctly.
Not sure if this'll help or not, but Ran and Yukari have a similar glitch with Perfect Buddhist/Butterfly in the Zen Temple. It appears to be triggered when the spellcard is cleared at the moment the active manji switches.
I say "appears" because I've only triggered it twice, once against each of them, and both times it happened I cleared the card as it was switching - compare to the literally dozens of times I've finished the cards without a hitch. If my theory is correct, it must be a one or two frame window.
Reasoning by analogy, it's possible that a similar hiccup occurs with Merlin as well. It *might* even be possible to get one of the other sisters to go nuts as well. I'd say to aim for moments where the behaviour of her laser is going to be changing and see what happens?
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Isn't MoF backgrounds based of the real Yatsugatake Mountains near Suwa Lake ? And SA based of something nearby ? (http://www.kandou10.jp/en/spot/spot590_c7_0.html)
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Not exactly the backgrounds, but the scenarios and general plot are based off of Suwa Lake and it's surroundings, yes.
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Not exactly the backgrounds, but the scenarios and general plot are based off of Suwa Lake and it's surroundings, yes.
Well I mean, are the background (semi-)exact recontruction of landscapes near Suwa Lake ?
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There is a video series that shows where various things in Mountain of Faith came from in the form of a travel diary. The first video is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-OaNEeeBhI), and the others can all be found on the uploader's YouTube page.
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I just had the most awesomest idea in the history of anything, ever, but it involves synchronizing events in two separate runs, which would be next to impossible to do by hand. Does there exist any utility or documentation that would allow me to hack a .rpy file?
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If Hakugyokurou is the place where only dead can be, why is there plants? Not only the Ayakashi, but Youmu tends a garden, Is she gardening dead plants?
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Is there a place where I can find Japanese spellcard names in Romanji? I can't read moonspeak and I'm curious to know if they sound awesome.
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I just had the most awesomest idea in the history of anything, ever, but it involves synchronizing events in two separate runs, which would be next to impossible to do by hand. Does there exist any utility or documentation that would allow me to hack a .rpy file?
Drake would know this. Remind me to bother him about replying to you later.
If Hakugyokurou is the place where only dead can be, why is there plants? Not only the Ayakashi, but Youmu tends a garden, Is she gardening dead plants?
Flowers (<3) seem to have some underlying symbolism with death in the 'soak. Remember PoFV, where the spirits of the dead turn into lycoris radiata, aka Higanbana (those red flowers that always show up with Shikieiki in pictures like these (http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/678/shikihiganbana.png)). It's up to interpretation, but I prefer to think that the flowers she gardens are in fact dead souls, and the "tending" she does is simply guiding them to enlightenment.
Is there a place where I can find Japanese spellcard names in Romanji? I can't read moonspeak and I'm curious to know if they sound awesome.
If these exist, I do not know at all. Sorry.
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I'm back here again...
I suddenly got curious about Koishi and looked up on her ability.
Touhou Wikia says:
Manipulation of the subconscious
What exactly is this ability supposed to do? Or is this free for interpretation?
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Well, canon explicitly states that she uses it to "go unnoticed" in her official profile (that's how she got to the Moriya shrine without any of the Tengu knowing about it), and then there's all her "lolpsychology"-themed spell cards. That's it for canon, but you can extrapolate based on that; presumably, she's going unnoticed by moving your awareness of her into your subconscious, so that you "forget" you're looking at her. I'm guessing she can also go the reverse -- if there's something you're only subconsciously aware of, she could see it the way Satori could see your conscious thoughts, and use her power to make you consciously aware of it. In one of my fanfics, Satori realizes that something's amiss, but can't quite put her finger on it; Koishi sees what Satori "noticed" and moves it into her conscious mind. In another story -- this is on shakier ground, more of a "hey, that's doing stuff to the subconscious, right?" -- she uses her power to suppress Flandre's destructive urges, sort-of-hypnotizing her and making her docile. And, much like real hypnosis, it ceased to work when she hit something Flandre really didn't want ...
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she uses her power to suppress Flandre's destructive urges, sort-of-hypnotizing her and making her docile. And, much like real hypnosis, it ceased to work when she hit something Flandre really didn't want ...
i wonder where that came from!!!!!
Anyways, sorry to say but I have no clue how you would hack a replay. Even if you could, it would be extraordinarily likely that it would desync immediately or just plain crash the game. Like I've said before it's not a video file, it's a data file. You would have to edit every frame of data, which would take a stupidly enormous amount of time anyways.
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i wonder where that came from!!!!!
... whut? It came from my understanding of how hypnosis works.
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Oh ok. (http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/706/0105f2ra.jpg) Guess it's just me, then.
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Oh, yeah, when that doujin was released, I remarked on the similarity to my story which I'd written months before (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=flankoi). :V
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Where did the Ex-[insert Touhou] concept come from?
Like, when people draw a character differently and assume she now has broken powers or something.
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Probably EX-Keine. Then the fact that Rumia's profile states that she can't take her hair-ribbon off, followed by Wild Mass Guessing about EX-Rumia. And just took off from there like it usually does, I guess.
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I guess you could trace this as far back as PC-98 Alice too, who appeared both as a normal stage boss and then as a powered-up EX-stage boss. In fact, I think it'd be quite reasonable to think she was the first Touhou character to have an EX-form, despite no apparent physical changes.
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That brings me to a related question: where did the term Ex- most likely originate from, to refer to powered up versions? It's common terminology now, but I'm trying to think of the first source to use that type of terminology but am drawing up a blank. I know Guilty Gear XX used it for alternate skillset chars, but doubt that's the first place. Also, Pop'n uses it for hardest difficulty.
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In fact, I think it'd be quite reasonable to think she was the first Touhou character to have an EX-form, despite no apparent physical changes.
Actually, I'd say Rika was the first, but meh.
And I suppose the terminology is just a shortened form of "EXtra". At least, that's what I always figured.
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I think that the term "EX Keine" was used just because it was shorter than "Keine in extra stage"
IMO EX forms don't exist. It's just a way to easily tell apart which stage boss you mean.
Keine just had different appearance because it was full moon.
If there would be EX Cirno, there wouldn't be any difference in her looks.
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Alright, so I've read a bit of Advent Cirno, and wanted to start working on a little Zelda-like game with Cirno as the main character. I already have the sprites drawn for her (I'm not using the Advent Cirno look, just normal Cirno.) but I wanted to know: what are all of Cirno's swords in that manga and do they have specific names? I want it to be fairly accurate, so I don't look like a idiot if I finish it. XD
(For anyone whose curious, I'm using the program called Zelda Classic to hopefully make this.)
I have an odd feeling this is the wrong place to ask this... >_>
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I have an odd feeling this is the wrong place to ask this... >_>
Don't worry, we can move it to Projects in a jiffy. They can help you out there.
Merged to the general question thread, since the topic was a general Touhou related question and its more likely to be answered there. Though if you want to make a topic pertaining to the game itself, still feel free to do so in Projects.
@ Nobu: Sure thing. My bad, then. o/
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i only remmember one whice looks like a slice of a watermalon.
sorry never read advent Cirno.
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I wanted to know: what are all of Cirno's swords in that manga and do they have specific names? I want it to be fairly accurate, so I don't look like a idiot if I finish it. XD
According to the Nico Nico Encyclopedia, the sword is called バスターチルノソード ("Buste Cirno Sword")
It's formed by 当たり剣 ("Atari sword" or for direct translation, "Winner sword")
which looks like a stick from a popsicle with "あたり" written on it.*
スイカソード ("Watermelon Sword") looks like a watermelon popsicle, also called スイカバー("Suicaba-")
チョコエッジ ("Choco-Edge") looks like a blade shaped cocolate stick, comes in set of two.
ウエハースブレイド ("Wafer Blade") Small blade shaped wafer, also comes in set of two.
The blade order from outside in probably goes Wafer, Chocolate, Watermelon than Winner.
*A little fun fact, since あたり which is "winner" can also mean "hit" (In terms of accuracy) Sometimes people say that this sword has 100% accuracy XD
I think you'd be better off also doing a quick search on pixiv or something to checkout how they look since there's just so much I can explain in words.
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I have a question...Is Utusho supposedly stupid for a reason other than being a "bird", was she dropped on the head as a baby? Ravens are actually pretty smart, and I don't just mean compared to other birds, they're like dolphins where people debate if they are more intelligent than humans and whatnot. Even simple crows are pretty darn smart compared to most animals (and not just birds).
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How in this estranging world, do you make avatars transparent? Gimp or Photoshop? I'm inexperienced in their use, so yeah.
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I have a question...Is Utusho supposedly stupid for a reason other than being a "bird", was she dropped on the head as a baby? Ravens are actually pretty smart, and I don't just mean compared to other birds, they're like dolphins where people debate if they are more intelligent than humans and whatnot. Even simple crows are pretty darn smart compared to most animals (and not just birds).
I don't think there's really that much of an explanation. Though you could make the case that it's not INT that's her dump stat, it's WIS -- she's just inexperienced with how the Real World works since she's lived with Satori her whole (sapient) life.
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I don't think there's really that much of an explanation. Though you could make the case that it's not INT that's her dump stat, it's WIS -- she's just inexperienced with how the Real World works since she's lived with Satori her whole (sapient) life.
And since Satori is a crazy cat lady who lives entirely alone with her pets without any human(oid) contact whatsoever, you can expect Utsuho to be slightly socially awkward and lacking in knowledge. Just let her stay at Patchy for a while and she'll catch up.
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I have a question...Is Utusho supposedly stupid for a reason other than being a "bird", was she dropped on the head as a baby? Ravens are actually pretty smart, and I don't just mean compared to other birds, they're like dolphins where people debate if they are more intelligent than humans and whatnot. Even simple crows are pretty darn smart compared to most animals (and not just birds).
I see many questions relating to Utsuho and stupidity, but other than the fact that she's officially stupid (By ZUN) people suggest some of the following...
*WARNING!!: all of the following are POSSIBILITIES and if somebody says "ZUN may have "unintentionally" made Utsuho stupid." there is no counter.*
1)Maybe she's smart but doesn't like using her head.
This is something that was suggested by people who said that "Although she's supposed to be stupid she uses lots of complex words and understands stuff like nuclear fusion." Also from her conversations on the .txt she sounds as if she doesn't think too deeply on what she's goig to do. So maybe she is not stupid but maybe a bit too lazy to think properly...
2)Maybe she is mentally challenged?
She can only vaguely remember the god that gave her the power of nuclear fusion... (Not to mention one of them having A large shimenawa and multiple onbashiras on her back)
Also, in 12.3 she said "Oh it's a Miko, I can't tell the difference between them" to Reimu or Sanae when she wins against either... Not being able to tell the difference (Unless she was intentionally mocking Reimu or Sanae which I doubt from her personality.) Yet she also thinks up of stuff like metal fixing using her powers (When she wins against Youmu). Maybe she has mental problems? Something like Dementia?
3)Political references?
Think back to the time when SA was made, -although it was always a problem- the problem of some countries stating their right of possession of Nuclear weapons and some countries actually arming them selves with them (Not to mention missile tests going on at the same time.) In the music room ZUN comments " I understand very well that even a fool that possesses great power can't cause too much harm. Ah, even if it's the power of dreams. " (Extract from Touhou wiki) So some people imagine Utsuho's stupidity being a small joke towards the politics concerning nuclear weapons. (Although there's nothing about ZUN saying yes or no to Nuclear weapons)
There are other suggestions like; since ZUN makes his music first, since the music sounded a bit light headed Utsuho became a stupid character, or there being a Japanese equivalent of the word "Bird brain" (quite literally) but those are some of the "stronger" arguments for her stupidity. ... I can't cite where all of these were from since I did half by my memory on what was happening on 2ch, NicoNico thread ...etc. But that's all that I can say for the hell crow that I like so much.
Apologies to make it such a long reply, and to Utsuho for not being able to find too many counter arguments...
P.S. Quite recently, I saw someone say,
"It's like Utsuho has a really awesome video card, but she lacks CPU ans RAM."-Random NicoNico person
I thought this was a cleaver way of explaining it, so, I squeezed it in here.
P.S. As for the question by Thundr_Pwnage
I'm sorry but I don't know much except for the facts that:
-It does not work well (or at all) with .jpg
-It has to do with the first colour (top left) on your colour palette you can edit this using specific software. (Photoshop probably works)
-formats like .bmp saves colour pallete information.
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I think it may also be based on the fact that half her nonspells are easier to dodge than even Kisume's. Someone who's smart wouldn't just fire out perfectly straight streams of bullets. A lot of her spells just rely on being freaking huge rather than having complex patterns, as well.
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In the music room ZUN comments " I understand very well that even a fool that possesses great power can't cause too much harm. Ah, even if it's the power of dreams. " (Extract from Touhou wiki) So some people imagine Utsuho's stupidity being a small joke towards the politics concerning nuclear weapons. (Although there's nothing about ZUN saying yes or no to Nuclear weapons)
I have a feeling people just went "ZOMG ZUN CALLED A CHARACTER A FOOL IN CANON" and everyone jumped all over it. With the vague amount of details about a character's personality, you have to jump on every little tidbit you get. Kinda like the whole "Cirno ----> Baka" thing.
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One can't deny that her "stupid" personality is official by 12.3 -- in the fight with Sanae, she remembers nothing about Kanako and Suwako, she forgets that she'd been fighting Sanae right after the battle ends, and believes Sanae when the latter tells her, "You were listening to my orders and helping me with my investigation of this reactor."
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One can't deny that her "stupid" personality is official by 12.3 -- in the fight with Sanae, she remembers nothing about Kanako and Suwako, she forgets that she'd been fighting Sanae right after the battle ends, and believes Sanae when the latter tells her, "You were listening to my orders and helping me with my investigation of this reactor."
Wow. Just, wow. Even Cirno isn't THAT gullible and idiotic. What does Utsuho have? ADD combined with short term memory loss? Maybe with some autism thrown in for good measure... No wonder Rin keeps such a watchful eye on her 24/7.
Now I feel really sad for Okuu :(
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Yeah ... in Cirno's scenario, after the fight, she fires off an attack as Cirno flees in a cutscene, then assumes she must have vaporized Cirno.
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Guys, don't mean to intrude, but this is not the "Is Utsuho Autistic?" thread. This is a miscellaneous questions thread. So please keep said discussion in a separate thread. The button is right outside. Thank you.
EDIT: What I'm saying is the question is answered, we don't need to post examples. Also, I understand I'm no mod.
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Guys, don't mean to intrude, but this is not the "Is Utsuho Autistic?"
That's not what they were debating anyway. Autistic =/= stupid. Ahem.
But yeah, she's dumb. As pointed out above, her dialogue in 12.3 confirms this beyond any doubt.
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Question: What do we know about the Watatsuki sisters danmaku-wise? Like spell cards, favored bullets, and how their abilities are used to create danmaku?
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We know they don't actually like using danmaku or Spell Cards.
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oh i wonder what onthenet's up to
Just from gut feelings, I would say Yorihime uses arrowheads and stars. Probably some knives, and maybe ringed bullets. Toyohime probably uses bubbles and stars. Lasers as well, and for some reason I'm thinking the double-line bullets from PC98.
I'm good at this game
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We know they don't actually like using danmaku or Spell Cards.
More like they didn't know how to use them at the time. Whether that's changed since then, however...
Ahem. But I would think that Yori's spellcards would likely be based upon the gods she channels in SSiB, or Shinto gods in general. As for Toyo... Um... Well, at the very least there'd be one based on her fan, I guess.
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More like they didn't know how to use them at the time. Whether that's changed since then, however...
Definite no. Despite their brief trip to Earth, there is really no reason for them to come to Gensokyo long enough to get in a fight.
Even then, chances are they'd rather just break the rules for the hell of it and cause Reimu trouble. Danmaku is really a Gensokyo thing, so there isn't a good reason for them to EVER learn how to use it.
In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if its considered a -joke- up there. 'What? They fight with flashy lights! Bahahahaha! Man, Truly, We only haven't conquered them because EARTH SUCKS LOL'.
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Definite no. Despite their brief trip to Earth, there is really no reason for them to come to Gensokyo long enough to get in a fight.
Even then, chances are they'd rather just break the rules for the hell of it and cause Reimu trouble. Danmaku is really a Gensokyo thing, so there isn't a good reason for them to EVER learn how to use it.
In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if its considered a -joke- up there. 'What? They fight with flashy lights! Bahahahaha! Man, Truly, We only haven't conquered them because EARTH SUCKS LOL'.
A slight correction:
Danmaku is "Little girl's play" thus it is questionable whether men in gensokyo fight with danmaku or not.
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What's the HTML code for keeping to the forum's standards? IIRC, there was a new rule about sending images, correct?
Am I posting in the right area? I'm not sure myself.
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There's a auto-thumbnail option in the works, but it isn't implemented. For now either use the attach function in the 'additional options...' right below the text entry box(not sure if that's available to standard members though), or use something like Imageshack, Photobucket, or Tinypic. All three of those have a 'post thumbnail' option.
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Thanks. Also I wanted to ask what does the different colors in the avatar name mean.
Example: The recently "snowballed" user, Kitean Silva, color is black. What does the color symbolize?
Another example would "Nobusan" is green color.
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This thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=3582.0) gives a rundown on the different colors and tags.
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If Remilia is a vampire, and vampires cannot have reflections, why does Remilia have a reflection in the SDM in Hisoutensokou?
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If Remilia is a vampire, and vampires cannot have reflections, why does Remilia have a reflection in the SDM in Hisoutensokou?
Apparently, in the Touhouverse, yes they do.
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I was wondering, just how much does Kanako effect Gensokyo directly and/or indirectly?
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There is something of which I can't find the answer of anywhere, even after scoring both Touhou Wiki, Perfect Memento and Danbooru Wiki. I still don't understand it:
What's with Chen and oni's? I frequently see Chen commanding a pair of huge red and blue oni's that appear from nowhere. Chen's powers are only called 'black magic', and her profile doesn't state anything about it involving oni minions. It looks like a pretty powerful skill, yet Chen isn't the really 'strongest' so to say. Where did this Chen + Oni idea originate from, and does it have some link to the main series? I first thought it was just artist improvisation, but after seeing so many artists drawing Chen with the oni's (even the author of Touhou Tag Dream!) I just can't help but ask where in the world those oni's came from.
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Oni Sign "Blue Oni Red Oni" (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Cherry_Blossom:_Extra_Spell_Cards#Spell_Card_117) is Chen's first spell card in Perfect Cherry Blossom's Extra stage.
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I was wondering, just how much does Kanako effect Gensokyo directly and/or indirectly?
Well, she was directly and indirectly the instigator of the past three games' plots.
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I was wondering, just how much does Kanako effect Gensokyo directly and/or indirectly?
In terms of faith, Kanako's Moriya shrine and Byakuren's Myorenji have most of gensokyo's faith.
... Reimu... ;_;
Chen and oni's
Also, on touhou motoneta Wiki it says that chen is a shikigami fitted (possessed) with a onigami/kishin(鬼神). (Thus she can use that spell card?)
The origins to the spell card is thought to come from Zenki(前鬼) and Goki(後鬼) that guarded En no Ozuno. -the originator of Shugendou-
These two Onis appear in Ran's version of that spell card.
(Was it Oni Sign "Zenki and Goki's gurad" or something like that?)
...Well... at least that's one theory.
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Alright, another question:
Alice keeps boasting about how she is the 'seven-colored puppeteer', and because she has so many colors on her she's (according to her own power theory) extremely powerful.
But how can she say she has all the seven colors of the rainbow if she only dresses in red, blue and white? That's only three colors. Four if you count her blond hair as yellow. Her black doesn't count, since that isn't an actual color. Infact, she doesn't even use that much rainbow attacks. Most of her attacks are blue or red, and involve her dolls. She has only three or something multi colored attacks, and they aren't even that spectacular.
Tenshi and Flandre are the only ones with all seven colors. Shouldn't one of them get the 'seven-colored' title? And Meiling's entire move set revolves around rainbows, even moreso than Marisa. Hell, Marisa's motto is 'if it isn't flashy, it isn't magic'.
Alice can't get away with saying that she's the seven-colored puppeteer because she wears white (all colors combined), because if that were the case why isn't she completely draped in white? Reimu and Marisa actually wear more white than Alice! And yet Alice says their colors are inferior. She doesn't have dolls of every color either, opting to use only black, red and blue instead.
Is Alice color-blind or something?
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I think it's more metaphorical than literal. Either that, or it's because her eyes change colour with every game she's in~
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I don't think there's a 'Title Review Board' that hands out titles, more likely titles that they've picked up or chosen by themselves. She has certain colors she uses more than others like Blue and Red, but she uses... 9-10 or more colors in PCB alone? Blue, aqua, red, purple, orange, yellow, white, green, lime green.. That's still pretty impressive. :p The colors of the rainbow + an extra green.
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Also, on touhou motoneta Wiki it says that chen is a shikigami fitted (possessed) with a onigami/kishin(鬼神). (Thus she can use that spell card?)
The origins to the spell card is thought to come from Zenki(前鬼) and Goki(後鬼) that guarded En no Ozuno. -the originator of Shugendou-
These two Onis appear in Ran's version of that spell card.
(Was it Oni Sign "Zenki and Goki's gurad" or something like that?)
...Well... at least that's one theory.
Another possible reference is to personality types (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedOniBlueOni) (WARNING: time sink black hole).
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Alright, another question:
Her attacks are mainly concerning dolls, but that's only because she likes to use dolls to do practically anything. It has been stated in media other than the games (books, interviews, etc.) that Alice can preform many other forms of magic, so the "7 colored" is a metaphor on all the different types of magic Alice can preform.
(She can probably do some stuff -if not most- like Marisa, but while Marisa's motto "Danmaku is Power!" clashes with Alice's motto "Danmaku is brains." Alice will probably never use flashy and powerful danmaku like Marisa.)
They also use a similar metaphor in comparing the Alice users in Hisouten and Hisoutensoku, since they call people who can fight with one type of strategy as a "single colored Alice" but a player that uses many different strategies for Alice "the seven colored Alice" :)
Also when speaking bout Alice, you must remember that she also has her Grimoire, and who knows what she can do if she decides to release the full power of that!
Another possible reference is to personality types (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedOniBlueOni) (WARNING: time sink black hole).
I'm really curious where the person who wrote that got his references, and wondering if he ever read the Japanease folklore The Red Oni that cried. ... well, shure in that story, the Red one was the one who cried... but I still think there's more to be said than than that...
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It's TVTropes, there is no research done except watching more TV.
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How would one go about emulating ZUN's PC-98 style?
I've been wondering about this since I decided to make a game in Shooter Maker 95.
Is there a certain program he uses for everything? Is it, like, MS Paint or something?
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How would one go about emulating ZUN's PC-98 style?
I've been wondering about this since I decided to make a game in Shooter Maker 95.
Is there a certain program he uses for everything? Is it, like, MS Paint or something?
Apparently, there is certain game engine that ZUN uses to make his touhou style games, but it's probably something made from scratch by ZUN.
The game Tasogare Sakaba ~Uwabami Breakers~ apparently was made using that "Touhou project game engine"
... But that was because ZUN was involved in the making, so I would guess, it's nothing you'd be able to get normally.
As for his music, we know that he uses SD-90 (Studio Canvas - 90) to make his music, so I guess it is possible to emulate his sound quality...
As for his picture styles... hmm, we do know that his picture styles (shading, colour contrast etc.) can be emulated using quite basic functions,
(Like this person (http://dic.nicovideo.jp/oekaki/57026.png) does using picture-bbs -but its only because this person has the experience and knowledge! I'm not saying that anyone can do it!)
but I think you'd need to find better than MS Paint, at least something that has layers and masks, and preferably opacity control.
...Unless you really want to spend a lot un-needed of time.
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It says in Parsee's Profile that she was an EX-Bridge Overseer, but in SA, didnt she introduce herself as the Bridge Master or something like that?
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It says in Parsee's Profile that she was an EX-Bridge Overseer, but in SA, didnt she introduce herself as the Bridge Master or something like that?
Different translation, I'm guessing.
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So I got the thinking...
Is it actually possible for Orin to 'create' a zombie ala Frankenstein method? If you don't know what I mean, think like how Aramis does it in Disgaea; by putting together different parts of varying corpses to make a zombified 'pet'. I don't know where this is coming from, but the question has been bugging me for as long as I've known her to summon zombies.
Also, do Touhous really explode when they lose a Danmaku battle? Part of me wants to say yes, being they look like they ran into an explosion when their 'defeated' portrait is displayed after a boss fight...but yeah.
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It says in Parsee's Profile that she was an EX-Bridge Overseer, but in SA, didnt she introduce herself as the Bridge Master or something like that?
In the Japanese text, it says Hashihime in both ZUN's .txt profile and in SA.
Guess you got them from two different sources :V
So I got the thinking...
Is it actually possible for Orin to 'create' a zombie ala Frankenstein method? If you don't know what I mean, think like how Aramis does it in Disgaea; by putting together different parts of varying corpses to make a zombified 'pet'. I don't know where this is coming from, but the question has been bugging me for as long as I've known her to summon zombies.
Also, do Touhous really explode when they lose a Danmaku battle? Part of me wants to say yes, being they look like they ran into an explosion when their 'defeated' portrait is displayed after a boss fight...but yeah.
Nah, it's actually that Orin's "Zombie fairy" spell, isn't really using dead anything. It says on the spell description that the fairies are only "pretending to die" and come towards you after a while.
... Well in the first place fairies can't really "die" in the Touhou world anyways...
Orin may possibly be able to cut and paste parts from dead bodies like Aramis (Ooh that map... steal! steal! steal! steal!... :D) but it doesn't say anywhere that she can animate them.
... Yeah, shucks... I sorta wanted that to happen too. :(
About the exploding question... who knows? As far as we can see it, we shove them in to bullets, fists, lasers, anchors, nuclear explosions, but they still go *pichuun* on the screen and spit out power ups.
Since danmaku is really only "play" as ZUN describes it, it probably won't be fatal. ... We think.
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Apparently, there is certain game engine that ZUN uses to make his touhou style games, but it's probably something made from scratch by ZUN.
The game Tasogare Sakaba ~Uwabami Breakers~ apparently was made using that "Touhou project game engine"
... But that was because ZUN was involved in the making, so I would guess, it's nothing you'd be able to get normally.
As for his music, we know that he uses SD-90 (Studio Canvas - 90) to make his music, so I guess it is possible to emulate his sound quality...
As for his picture styles... hmm, we do know that his picture styles (shading, colour contrast etc.) can be emulated using quite basic functions,
(Like this person (http://dic.nicovideo.jp/oekaki/57026.png) does using picture-bbs -but its only because this person has the experience and knowledge! I'm not saying that anyone can do it!)
but I think you'd need to find better than MS Paint, at least something that has layers and masks, and preferably opacity control.
...Unless you really want to spend a lot un-needed of time.
Oh, I mean his PC-98 art style. I was dying to know how he draws the characters like that. >:
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Oh, I mean his PC-98 art style. I was dying to know how he draws the characters like that. >:
You're not old enough to drink yet, sistuh. :<
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You're not old enough to drink yet, sistuh. :<
;__________;
That's not what I meeeeant.
You guys know what I'm talking about, right? The PC-98 coloring style!
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Question: Is Eirin immortal? (Did she drink Hourai Elixir?)
There is many suggestion... some says she isn't really immortal since she once got sick, but in CiLR Mokou also had a cold.
Some said Eirin is a pharmacist so the poison from Yuyuko didn't effect her in IN, but... being a pharmacist can't help you immune to poison >_> Or else everyone in the world will be a pharmacist.
Some said Kaguya using her ability to keep Eirin alive... that's not very reassuring since Eirin is believed to live a long time before Kaguya was born. ("much older" than 1400+-year-old Kaguya, was instrumental in the establishment of the lunar capital. - Touhou wikia)
Btw, how I can use the "search" fuction in this forum?
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Question: Is Eirin immortal? (Did she drink Hourai Elixir?)
There is many suggestion... some says she isn't really immortal since she once got sick, but in CiLR Mokou also had a cold.
Some said Eirin is a pharmacist so the poison from Yuyuko didn't effect her in IN, but... being a pharmacist can't help you immune to poison >_> Or else everyone in the world will be a pharmacist.
Some said Kaguya using her ability to keep Eirin alive... that's not very reassuring since Eirin is believed to live a long time before Kaguya was born. ("much older" than 1400+-year-old Kaguya, was instrumental in the establishment of the lunar capital. - Touhou wikia)
Eirin is immortal for she drank the hourai elixer. (Eirin's last spell in IN suggests she drank the elixer)
and since the elixer's property is more of "unchanging" rather than "immortality"...
(Since the elixer was made using Kaguya's ability... which basically is control over epsilon and infinity, and something that is infinite cannot be changed by a something finite. ... Maybe that's what that somebody meant by Eirin's prologued life resulting from Kaguya's ability.)
...Although there are counter arguments like Mokou's hair colour changing from black when she was young to what it it now. White as snow.
You notice out of the three who used the Hourai elixer, two are white haired... Coincidence...? ???
...BTW when ZUN was drunk in one of his interviews, he said that Eirin's age has at least more than 8 zeros.
Other than having the immortality, she probably ages very slowly if not at all.
... Definately older than some Sukima or gods that we know...
(Also, there is a theory that states Eirin is, or is modeled after the goddess Omoikane. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omoikane_%28Shinto%29) Which would explain alot.... But there's no proof to that other than her name and her spell card. -Which is a relatively weak argument to what we have with other gods in Touhou.)
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Actually, I'm pretty sure she didn't. Lunarians are ageless and immortal to begin with (The Watatsukis, for instance, make it clear that they've been around since before Eirin and Kaguya got exiled, and Toyohime's racism-against-humans talks about them growing old and dying, and they didn't drink it), and in the Ghost Team's good-ending,
Yuyuko tries to poison Eirin, and she survives because of her skill with medicine, not from Hourai-immortality.
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Actually, I'm pretty sure she didn't. Lunarians are ageless and immortal to begin with (The Watatsukis, for instance, make it clear that they've been around since before Eirin and Kaguya got exiled, and Toyohime's racism-against-humans talks about them growing old and dying, and they didn't drink it), and in the Ghost Team's good-ending, Yuyuko tries to poison Eirin, and she survives because of her skill with medicine, not from Hourai-immortality.
OBJECTION!
Isn't it in that same ghost team's ending that:
1.Eirin said "I drank the medicine that was made with Kaguya's ability" *Hourai Elixer
2.Yuyuko said she doesn't like "People who do not die".
towards Eirin.
(Mind you, the wordings may be a bit different depending on the english patch, but they definitely said something like this.)
On a different note...:
1.The Watatsukis as well as all other lunarians are long lived, but that does not mean they will not die, since Eirin killed all the other lunarians that came to escort Kaguya.
2.Also, the Watatsukis say that the reason why the lunarians are long lived is because they are "pure" and lunarians who have
left the moon are not pure anymore.
So unless Eirin and Kaguya returns to the moon they could've died, the only explanation for them being alive is the Elixer.
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I was referring to not-dying-of-old-age immortality, I didn't mean the Lunarians wouldn't die if they were killed.
And I'm gonna have to play IN again ...
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I was referring to not-dying-of-old-age immortality, I didn't mean the Lunarians wouldn't die if they were killed.
And I'm gonna have to play IN again ...
Oh, ok sorry for getting over exited about the counterargument. :(
But yeah, the good end to ghost team's conversations tell a lot about Eirin.
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So "Eirin made Hourai Elixir and drank it with Kaguya" highly seems to be the case. I myself believe in this, yes.
But ZUN said Eirin's age is 8 zeros? What the- only remember something like 200,000 o___O
/joke
I think we should expel Eirin from the Old Hag Alliance and change the name to Middle Aged Alliance.
/end joke
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I'm not shure of all the text variations, but I think Eirin drank the elixer after Kaguya, since the reason for making such a thing was for Kaguya... although she got expelled for it...
Welllll, ZUN was drunk at the time, and 億 is eight zeros... right?
Or do I need to go over my Japanese practice books again ... OTL
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Yes it is
100 000 000 one hundred m-illion 108 一億
But hell, what kind of age is that. Thanks fanarts she's still as beautiful as ever...
By the way, is there anything else related to the Moon War 1? We all knew Yukari was defeated by Lunarian's weaponry. But the more I read about Yukari, the more I doubt it.
At that time, either Yukari was still inexperienced, or there was someone stronger than her. Talking about the Watatsuki sister, maybe they can defeat Yukari now (SSiB), but at that time... well the age thing is still vague isn't it.
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Speaking of yukari, how do her borders work, anyways? Do they have to be "solid lines" (dead-alive, real-not real, victory-defeat) or extremely vague lines drawn between any two things she would like (like border of colorado and wisconsin, border of reimu being a jerk of a miko and eternal loving slave).
Note: Before you use border of wave and particle as an example, keep in mind certain forms of energy, usually the electromagnetic force, behaves like both a wave and a particle, thus she's simply invoking this trait in her danmaku (notice how the danmaku pattern shifts between high frequency 'waves' and particle spray). On a similar note, the border of mind and foot (SWR skillcard) is the portion of the nervous system that exists somewhere in the legs/ankles (which shows that borders aren't always abstract concepts), so these aren't very good examples of the any-two-things deal.
Also, what borders could be involved in gaps?
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Nothing's ever specified about Yukari's borders. She's haxed "day and night" in both IN and IaMP (stopping time and making the Shrine half-day and half-night, respectively), and "between mountain and sky" is explicitly referred to in her profile. People generally act like it's the "vague" possibility.
And I've always assumed that gaps are the manipulation of "here" and "there" (presumably "manipulation of borders" includes "creating an opening, if it's a physical border).
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Yukari's border is one of the most mysterious thing in Touhou... PMiSS recorded it as "Border of anything and everything" so I assume the "lines" we usually see in doujin and games are "physical borders", which allow her to move freely and shoot bullets (or a train).
About other borders...I'm not sure, maybe she still cast them like the physical ones, but "behind" it is another dimension. I think we all know about the theory of 4-D and n-D worlds, where can't be clearly explained but basically... one from those worlds can have absolute control to our world (3D), as they have another dimension and cannot be limited by our standards. I think Yukari's borders work like that.
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Yes it is
But hell, what kind of age is that. Thanks fanarts she's still as beautiful as ever...
By the way, is there anything else related to the Moon War 1? We all knew Yukari was defeated by Lunarian's weaponry. But the more I read about Yukari, the more I doubt it.
At that time, either Yukari was still inexperienced, or there was someone stronger than her. Talking about the Watatsuki sister, maybe they can defeat Yukari now (SSiB), but at that time... well the age thing is still vague isn't it.
Some people say Yukari started the Moon war to teach the Yokais that were swelling up in false confidence a lesson.
Somehow I think that fits very well with Yukari's character...
Oh yeah, and Yukari also stated that she can't win in "brute force" to the Watatsukis.
Well, I'm happy that Eirin's the most beautiful women of her age that I know. XD
Speaking of yukari, how do her borders work, anyways? Do they have to be "solid lines" (dead-alive, real-not real, victory-defeat) or extremely vague lines drawn between any two things she would like (like border of colorado and wisconsin, border of reimu being a jerk of a miko and eternal loving slave).
Note: Before you use border of wave and particle as an example, keep in mind certain forms of energy, usually the electromagnetic force, behaves like both a wave and a particle, thus she's simply invoking this trait in her danmaku (notice how the danmaku pattern shifts between high frequency 'waves' and particle spray). On a similar note, the border of mind and foot (SWR skillcard) is the portion of the nervous system that exists somewhere in the legs/ankles (which shows that borders aren't always abstract concepts), so these aren't very good examples of the any-two-things deal.
Also, what borders could be involved in gaps?
A boarder is, theoretically a separation line that exists in between two things, wether it be two individuals, the land and the sea, or the 2-d shooting world that we look at. If it's in between two things, it means that there's something between them, which is a gap. A gap between the two individuals for they are never one, a gap between land and sea for they'd never melt in to one,...etc.
Such gaps are where Yukari's powers work.
The thing for Yukari's ability is that, her gaps that she manipulate doesn't need to be physical, they can be theoretical, metaphorical,... you name it.
Thus what do you get when you "remove the boundary" between some things, like individuality?
Maybe you'll end up like the entire humanity did at the end of Evangalion? (i.e. LCL puddles)
So the take home message is: as long as Yukari can specify a border in/or between something with her I.Q. ????? brain, she can manipulate it.
Also, on a similar note, in 12.3, it said that being able to draw boarders in anything is the same as being able to split(as-in:cut apart) anything.
...By the way, there is a infamous Yokai in modern Japanese stories that's named the "Purple old hag" (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B4%AB%E3%83%90%E3%83%90%E3%82%A2)...
Hm? I thought I heard a knock on the door. Who could it be at this time... (Gets sucked in to a Sukima)
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Thus what do you get when you "remove the boundary" between some things, like individuality?
Maybe you'll end up like the entire humanity did at the end of Evangalion? (i.e. LCL puddles)
Nah brah, that's going to be Sariel's gig.
/joke
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Maybe you'll end up like the entire humanity did at the end of Evangalion? (i.e. LCL puddles)
Or perhaps ... FLCL puddles! *brick'd*
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ahahaha I didn't expect people to catch on so quickly :D
BTW the that reminds me...
Question:Were people(?) like Sariel's gender ever stated?
Since there are people who say, "It's ZUN's creation, thus Sariel is a girl" but I find that not so convincing, especially when the character is in the old history...
I'm weaker in the knowledge of the PC-98 stuff since I never got too far on too many of them...
(Is it just me who finds the PC-98 series harder than the Win Touhou series? DX )
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Question:Were people(?) like Sariel's gender ever stated?
Since there are people who say, "It's ZUN's creation, thus Sariel is a girl" but I find that not so convincing, especially when the character is in the old history...
Well, Sariel looks effeminate, but that doesn't account for much in japanese characters, does it? I don't know if ZUN ever referred to her with a gender specific pronoun. At least the endings don't reveal anything at all.
But no matter what gender Sariel has, SHe is awesome. 8)
(Is it just me who finds the PC-98 series harder than the Win Touhou series? DX )
Well...
TH1 tHRtP is hard because it is a completely different genre.
TH2 SoEW is hard because of bullshit mechanics.
TH3 PoDD is hard because of the ludicrous AI.
TH4 LLS and TH5 MS are just like the windows games in terms of difficulty and quality, just with the limitation of the PC-98.
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ahahaha I didn't expect people to catch on so quickly :D
BTW the that reminds me...
Question:Were people(?) like Sariel's gender ever stated?
Since there are people who say, "It's ZUN's creation, thus Sariel is a girl" but I find that not so convincing, especially when the character is in the old history...
I'm weaker in the knowledge of the PC-98 stuff since I never got too far on too many of them...
(Is it just me who finds the PC-98 series harder than the Win Touhou series? DX )
Sariel's gender is based more on your own personal opinion than anything else. Some like to see her as a female, while others do the opposite, there's really no right or wrong way to interpret her gender. I guess...
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Something else I'm wondering: how powerful are Celestials, particulary Tenshi?
In Buddism, reaching spiritual enlightment, and thus leave the re?ncarnation cycle, is the ultimate goal for every living being. In certain depictions it can be compared to attaining divinity. Perfect Memento even tells it grants one perfect immortality, along with a body that repels youkai and leaves beasts in total awe. This confirms they are pretty much invincible, but do they possess power and battle prowess similiar to youkai?
Tenshi indeed seems strong, able to shake the foundations of the Earth and to control the power of the weather to her whim. She proves to be more than a match for the Touhous. However, both her powers stem from artifacts she uses: the keystones and the Sword of Hisou. Does she have any power herself?
Komachi does claim one thing about the power of Celestials: according to her, Celestials are immortal because they constantly beat up the shinigami that are supposed to pick them up. Shinigami are death gods, and they (generally) take their jobs seriously. They have to be able to kick ass to make the dead face judgement. So if you're capable of defeating not one, not two, but several shinigami you need to have nigh godlike strength.
However, this brings up another curious point: if Celestials keep extending their life by chasing away shinigami, wouldn't that mean they're bodies would still detoriate? Wouldn't they keep aging until they start to look like shriveled walking corpses? That would certainly remove they're awe inspiring magnificance, and make them vulnerable to the shinigami. This apparently only applies to humans who became Celestials through immortality, who keep their physical bodies. Humans who turned into Celestials through spiritual enlightment don't have corporeal bodies, according to Perfect Memento, and are thus incapable of venturing on Earth without a host. They shouldn't be able to decay or age. And does Tenshi count as a corporeal or ethereal Celestial?
So did Komachi get her facts messed up, or do Celestials have special mechanisms and processes to stay youthful?
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Well, than Sariel is free for my imaginations to spoi- ... Er, I mean, beautify!
...Come to think about it, there are stuff that says angels have both in one sex...
Anyhow, on to explaining Tenshi!
Something else I'm wondering: how powerful are Celestials, particulary Tenshi?
...Amazingnes
WOW! Somebody was doing their homework seriously!
Yup you're right about most parts, and Tenshi as a celestial is supposed to be very powerful.
Tenshi's power, inducted from what happened in SWR (Scarlet Weather Rhapsody):
In SWR after everybody took turns in beating her up, she was forced to rebuild Reimu's shrine.
But rebuilding Reimu's shrine was for her own good because during that she tried to stick her Kea stone in there, and in future plans the shrine was supposed to become her cottage.
Well, reason why this didn't become reality was because Yukari found out. Apparently the surrounding environments to Hakurei shrine is a very important aspect to
the Hakurei dai Kekkai / Hakurei Seal (博霊大結界), and Tenshi sticking her Kea-stone in the area made a great disturbance in the Seal.
By all means Gensoukyou could've been destroyed due to Tenshi's actions, so Yukari punished her by beating her up quite brutally...
..but yet, many others who tried to do the same got beat up by Tenshi.
From this, we can see that, when Tenshi's a bit serious she's stronger than most others but weaker than Yukari.
(∴ Theoretically ... Other members from SWR≦Tenshi<Yukari)
About the Celestial's body:
What do all the celestials up there eat? Well, apparently they don't have much of a variation when it comes to food, and their main diet comes from the heavenly peaches.
(Maybe the peaches Tenshi has on her hat?)
Those peaches -like everything else in mythology that's from heaven- are very special and makes the eater's body very strong. In SWR,
it was stated that Sakuya's knives can't penetrate Tenshi's skin and this is due to Tenshi eating so many of those peaches.
Although there is nothing stated about the relevance between the peaches and the aging, it is a well known fact that in both China and Japan
peaches are supposed to be fruits that depict Long life with no aging. -In fact many of the Xians' (仙) who are almost immortal are said to have favored eating peaches-
The peach is also a symbol of purity and is said to ward off evil, and in Japan there is also a legend that states that Izanagi(伊弉諾神) was able to
ward of the woman from Yomi(黄泉醜女) by throwing a peach at her. -The peach got a godly name after that.-
In taoism, the things like spiritual pureness, and the substances that you consume are supposed to affect your spiritual and physical health greatly, up to the point that one would almost achieve immortality.
... You can guess where I'm getting to with this, no?
Other things about Tenshi:
Tenshi is from the family of Hinanai, but she is not seen as a proper celestial from other "proper" celestials. This is because celestials get to their positions through;
either intensive training or they are raised up to the position by the gods because they have done a significant deed.(like Taoist gods)
Tenshi's family is the latter type, and as a result Tenshi became a celestial.
(Sort of like how a child may change when their parent's social position increases significantly.)
Also, it is thought that the very reason Tenshi's family got raised up to the celestials is since they can use the Kea-stone, which normal humans, or celestials cannot even touch.
...So basically, Tenshi's "special" power is more of her family's special power, but it enables her to use the Kea-stone.
Well I think I covered that topic O-k, tell me if I left any questions unanswered. ;)
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Celestial is beings that stronger than Shinigami, I'm not sure if they're stronger than most, but let's say they have the power to defeat Shinigami. (It's like water > fire > leaf type of power) Therefore they won't die. About their youth, it's quite obvious that they eat Hourai peaches (not "Hourai" from Kaguya's name nor it relates to the elixir, but from the kanji... how to say it... "Hourai" in Chinese means somewhere paradise-like, the place where most of celestial live after finished their training. Usually goes with "island" or "mountain" (Yeah, "Hourai-san" Kaguya LOL))
The peaches there are believed to keep the eaters young and healthy, in some folktale it can even let you choose the age you'll be. It's the same as the food on Olympus in Greek Myth or the peaches in Journey to the West.
Tenshi's power... I say she inherited her family's power as a celestial, then trained herself to be at the finest (I dunno her age ~) mostly should be around the Kea-Stone's and Hisou Sword's powers.
Anyway long story short: Celestial is one of the races closer to Gods, I'd like to say Tenshi is around top 5 strongest in Touhou (stronger than Suika)
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Tenshi's power... I say she inherited her family's power as a celestial, then trained herself to be at the finest (I dunno her age ~) mostly should be around the Kea-Stone's and Hisou Sword's powers.
Anyway long story short: Celestial is one of the races closer to Gods, I'd like to say Tenshi is around top 5 strongest in Touhou (stronger than Suika)
I don't think Tenshi did any training to make her strong, its mainly her race that makes her strong.
Its like Remilia or Flandre not needing to do any training since they already possess the strength of an Oni and the speed of a Tengu.
Stronger than Suika we do not know, since Onis that are Onis by nature are really something closer to gods, or guardians....
P.S. It's really hard to make any power balance charts in Japanese folklore since there are humans that beat Yokais like Onis, and there are gods that have lost against Yokai,and there are also humans that have become Yokai, or gods.So, its really hard to generalize any kind of A weaker than B but wins against C, type of relationship...
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I don't think Celestial is that kind of race. Celestial are people who trained themselves into another level and acquired powers.
There is 2 kinds of god here, one is the nature gods whose existence based on people's faith (like Suwako, Kanako). These 'gods' are not really god, they may just a powerful youkai who help people and gained their trust, for instance, Byakuren can be that kind of god too (ex: Sun WuKong or Guan Yu). The other one is like Shinki and Dragon God, whose beings are extremely powerful and already recognized as gods who have absolute power. (ex: Zeus or Odin)
Oni is closer to the nature gods, while Tenshi is closer to the 'gods'.
Wtf did I just type.
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I don't think Celestial is that kind of race. Celestial are people who trained themselves into another level and acquired powers.
There is 2 kinds of god here, one is the nature gods whose existence based on people's faith (like Suwako, Kanako). These 'gods' are not really god, they may just a powerful youkai who help people and gained their trust, for instance, Byakuren can be that kind of god too (ex: Sun WuKong or Guan Yu). The other one is like Shinki and Dragon God, whose beings are extremely powerful and already recognized as gods who have absolute power. (ex: Zeus or Odin)
Oni is closer to the nature gods, while Tenshi is closer to the 'gods'.
Wtf did I just type.
I know what you're getting at, but read my first post about Tenshi. I stated there that Tenshi's family was made a Celestial by the gods, or who ever it was that have control over those things.
Tenshi her self never did any work to become like that (If she did, she wouldn't be a brat like she is now.)
but someone in her family or bloodline (probably her father) was given the post of a Celestial and the rest of her family became a Celestial, like a branch attached to a tree.
Edit:Sorry, the deed came from even farther, Tenshi's family Hinanai originally comes from a greater family called the Nai, since the Nai family were made Celestials due to their deeds, the Hinanais also were raised up to the class... but still, same argument.
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I agree that Tenshi's not a refined lady. But it doesn't mean she spent her life playing with candles and whips all the time. She can still trained fighting and magic then run off to Iron Maiden when it came to art and literature right?
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Yes, since she's originally like a noble, she has the art, knowledge, and skills.
But, Tenshi states that "She got tired of an eternal life drinking and singing and having fun" and since she wanted some excitement in her life she decided to make trouble.
So, no she didn't play around with candles and whips, but yes she was playing around like a noble... which she soon lost interest in.
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Wow, this is quite an info dump! All this new information made me respect Tenshi alot more.
I didn't know peaches were so special in religion and mythology. Judging from your explanations, they can indeed be compared to the nectar of the Greek Gods. Would they weaken if they stopped consuming the peaches, though? Or are a few peaches enough to stay young permanently? I'm also still not sure if Tenshi counts as a corporeal Celestial or not. You did explain however that Tenshi and her family ascended directly as a gift from the Gods, so I guess they count as corporeal Celestials. Tenshi also faces the Touhous in Gensokyo itself, and looks exactly the same as she does as in Heaven. From this we can conclude she can travel between Earth and Heaven at will, and is thus a corporeal Celestial. Unless hosts are automatically transformed to look like her...
I also didn't know Tenshi was that powerful and sturdy. I usually saw the Gensokyo top as Yukari > Yuuka > Shinki > Suika > Flandre > Eirin/Moonbitches > Remilia > Yuyuko > Shikieiki, but apparently Tenshi needs to be somewhere between Shinki and Suika or even Yuuka and Shinki.
And regarding Tenshi, Remilia and Flandre's lack of training (since their species and heritage grants them their power), the popular Danbooru doujin Touhou Tag Dream manages to explain this in a clever manner: in the match between Meiling and Suwako, Suwako compliments Meiling on her technique. Meiling is quick to point out to Suwako that "technique is a weapon for the weak. I don't belong to the group of strong youkai. So it's no wonder I've learned it." In other words, if you are powerful by nature you have no need to learn martial arts and fighting techniques. You can just knock someone down with one hit. If you are weak you need to learn fighting techniques to defend yoursef. Afterall, most martial artists don't have much muscle strength, but make up for it with their technique, allowing them to take down far larger foes.
However, this could also work negatively to powerful youkai. In one other popular webcomic, 'El Goonish Shive', the main villain had extreme physical strength, regenerative powers and could make people and objects combust into flames. He was unbeatable at first, but once the female lead awakened her true powers she wiped the floor with him, despite having equal strength. How can this be? The girl had learned martial arts before hand, and had thus a far greater advantage over the villain. The villain could only sluggishly punch around him, and was thus unable to hit the far more agile girl. If Flandre had to face a foe with equal powers to her but a more refined technique (like a super powered Meiling) Flandre would inevitably lose. Thus, technique stays important, in case you need to face a foe of equal or greater strength.
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Wow, this is quite an info dump! All this new information made me respect Tenshi alot more.
...
A few things:
1) Shikieiki>Yuakri Yukari hates Shikieiki for this, and her long lectures.
2) Using Flandre and Meiling as an exmaple may not be most appropriate since Flandre's ability's extent is not stated, and we do not even know what type of Yokai Meiling is.
(Since there are speculations of her being a Dragon. If so a dragon is in the top class of any Yokai.)
3) Try not to put too much stuff like A>B since that brings lots of trouble.
... Also, if Suika was at the top ranks Yugi would also be there, and we still don't know the two other Onis of the Shitennou (四天王).
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1) Shikieiki doesn't appear to be that powerful to me. Sure, she's the judge of the dead, but she's restricted by rules and tasks, nor can she warp reality like Yukari. While Shikieiki can only see people's sins and judge them, shoot lighting bolts and lasers, Yukari can do almost anything.
Another reason why this can't be right: if the yama's really were stronger than Yukari, why don't they just barge up to Heaven and drag down the Celestials themselves? Yukari has proven to be the only one to be a match for Tenshi, and Tenshi is probably more experienced in battle than most other Celestials. If the shinigami failed bringing the Celestials in, wouldn't the yama try themselves? They want to pass judgement on all and they take their job's way to seriously. The fact that Celestials are still around proves that yama's are weaker than Celestials and thus weaker than Yukari.
2) I just picked the most chaotic and most refined of Gensokyo's combattants. Flandre 'plays' while fighting, and since she's been locked up for hundreds of years she has been unable to learn technique, relying on brute strength. Meiling on the other hand has been training her entire life, and has lots of battle discipline. Also, vampires are a kind of youkai, so it isn't that much of a stretch. And Meiling can't be a dragon since there is only one dragon according to Perfect Memento.
3) I just tried to find some good examples of fighting discipline. I should've considered the other oni diva's though. But I think they share Suika's spot, like how the Watatsukis Moonbitches share Eirin's spot.
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1) Shikieiki doesn't appear to be that powerful to me. Sure, she's the judge of the dead, but she's restricted by rules and tasks, nor can she warp reality like Yukari. While Shikieiki can only see people's sins and judge them, shoot lighting bolts and lasers, Yukari can do almost anything.
Read this official story written by ZUN from the perspective of Yukari, and be enlightened. (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/A_Flower_Blooming_Fragrant_Violet_Every_Sixty_Years)
Aside from that, don't let this become a power hierarchy discussion. These don't really go anywhere, and in the end a mod will punch us all in the face. Rightfully.
(Since there are speculations of her being a Dragon. If so a dragon is in the top class of any Yokai.)
Judging from PMiSS, Touhou dragons are more like actual Japanese dragons. The godlike kind that is several hundred feet long and can shatter the world with its cry alone. They have a separate section in Akyu's Memento where it is stated that they haven't been seen in Gensokyo since the creation of the barrier. Yet there is a section about Meiling. Okay, you could argue about Akyu's unreliability, but I think this distinction is clear enough to be trustworthy.
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There is just one thing wrong with your story on the peaches, Izanagi threw 2 peaches at the demons, but when he did they turned to stone. And he also threw one at Izanami, his "wife" and it just knocked her back
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There is just one thing wrong with your story on the peaches, Izanagi threw 2 peaches at the demons, but when he did they turned to stone. And he also threw one at Izanami, his "wife" and it just knocked her back
Was this before or after Izanami turned into a rotten skeletal monstrosity?
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After, Izanami told Izanagi to stay outside the palace until she arranged to return back to "Earth", an unpatient love came over Izanagi and he stormed the palace, thats when she turned into the monster and started chasing him as well as sending the demons his way
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I thought she turned into a monster because she ate a forbidden fruit in the Underworld. She got there in the first place because she was burned to death by a fire god she birthed. Said fire god was promptly slain by Izanagi. Izanagi tried to find her in the Underworld and bring her back, but once he saw Izanami turned into a decaying montrosity he bolted it out of there. She didn't take it well to say the least, and now she hunts Izanagi down with monsters. She also changed her title from 'Goddess of Creation' to 'Goddess of Decay'.
At least, that was in the story I read.
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1. The "Hourai" peaches are believed to be twice as big as the normal Chinese peach, super delicious, juicy and can only be found on the Hourai peach tree on top of the Hourai mountain. The tree has 3 kinds of peach: 100 years peach: grant youth, 1000 years peach: grant power as strong as a Celestial, 10000 years peach: be a Celestial. 1 bite and you get the effect instantly and permanent, anymore is just useless.
2. Dragon god is the god that has both natural power and people faith. That's why it's the strongest holy beast in the East (considered to be as strong as god). Off-topic info: the other 3 are Tiger (agility, raw strength) Phoenix (destruction, life) and Turtle (wisdom, defense).
3. Remilia isn't that strong, since fate is vague and unstable. She can only "guess" the most predictable fate and "lead" other's fate to another path. Let's say it like this, if Remilia want you to die, she cannot just do "this is your fate, die now.", she HAS to do something like "now you go to here, meet this guy at this time, have an argument with him in this topic, then get stabbed and die." and you can still change your fate due to your own actions. And Remilia will not use that power frequently since everything's fate connect to each others, if she mess around her head may explode like Tohno Shiki.
4. Martial Arts aren't for the weak, nor it's the technique to defeat raw strength. It teaches you how to use your body the most effective way (to live, to fight, to kill, whatever). And if you're already at 100% of your limit, you won't need any training, it's useless. Tenshi may in that case, I still stick to my point that "She trained before", but then she realized she doesn't need it anymore.
5. Gods > youkai, maybe some youkai is stronger than god in some way but in the end Gods win. Example Haruhi > Yuki.
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Please do not use information from an entirely different series to explain Touhou. In particular do not use Haruhi.
That said, this is turning into a "power levels discussion," which is against the rules.
...Come to think about it, there are stuff that says angels have both in one sex...
Everything I've heard points to Western angels being "sexless, unless they really want to make an effort." So it's not "both" so much as "neither."
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Please do not understand other's post the wrong way. That's just an example and it has nothing to do with power ranking.
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Aside from that, don't let this become a power hierarchy discussion. These don't really go anywhere, and in the end a mod will punch us all in the face. Rightfully.
Hi~
This thread is... not QUITE there, but veering dangerously close to powerlevels, and so I shall step in to remind you guys that such things are forbidden around here, due to being kind of stupid. That said: OkashiiNaito (er, OkashiiKisei), have you had your question answered to your satisfaction yet? If so, we can end discussion here before it gets to outright powerlevels (speaking of, why do people bother to argue? We all know Shikieiki is the best.)
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Hi~
This thread is... not QUITE there, but veering dangerously close to powerlevels, and so I shall step in to remind you guys that such things are forbidden around here, due to being kind of stupid. That said: OkashiiNaito (er, OkashiiKisei), have you had your question answered to your satisfaction yet? If so, we can end discussion here before it gets to outright powerlevels (speaking of, why do people bother to argue? We all know Shikieiki is the best.)
Well, yes, my original questions are answered, and Fortevn added some more answers to the last edgy questions I had. I think we can end it here.
And yes, I remember now that according to Japanese mythology that "youkai are all the beings with power between humans and Gods". Thus, though I hate to admit it, Shikieiki, being a divinity, would in the end win against a youkai, even if said youkai is Yukari. *cringe*
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Yeah, I've got a few more questions here.
Can youkai die of age? I heard they did. If so, what is their average life span? And do only certain types die of age? And do they actually get to look older? I can imagine vampires like Flandre and Remilia to be unable to die of age and stay young, and Yukari probably gap haxes her youth constantly, since she's apparently way older than a youkai should be and still looks like a bombshell. Also, do Shrine Maidens and Demi-Gods get older than average humans?
Do youkai have a predetermined amount of power and potential, or can they increase both with training or artifacts? For example, was Yuuka (genetically) destined to become so strong, or did she achieve it through sheer work and effort? Can Wriggle for example ever hope to be as strong as Yuuka?
Does Gensokyo grow, or is it stuck at it's current size? I can imagine the ever growing population of youkai and humans are going to need more room eventually.
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Does Gensokyo grow, or is it stuck at it's current size? I can imagine the ever growing population of youkai and humans are going to need more room eventually.
No, I'd say it doesn't. Mostly because the population isn't growing. Other than the Myouren faith and the three people from the Moriya shrine, that amounts to 8 youkai over 1-3 years. Also, Many of the youkai in all the other games were there the entire time as well. other than the temporary three from PoDD, the three from IN, and the previously mentioned above.
Gensokyo is actually quite large, and could easily support the youkai. The human's have lived there for a long time as well. Yet their population is developing very slowly. So Gensokyo could live on for another however long it's been there.
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Yeah, I've got a few more questions here.
Can youkai die of age? I heard they did. If so, what is their average life span? And do only certain types die of age? And do they actually get to look older? I can imagine vampires like Flandre and Remilia to be unable to die of age and stay young, and Yukari probably gap haxes her youth constantly, since she's apparently way older than a youkai should be and still looks like a bombshell. Also, do Shrine Maidens and Demi-Gods get older than average humans?
Do youkai have a predetermined amount of power and potential, or can they increase both with training or artifacts? For example, was Yuuka (genetically) destined to become so strong, or did she achieve it through sheer work and effort? Can Wriggle for example ever hope to be as strong as Yuuka?
Does Gensokyo grow, or is it stuck at it's current size? I can imagine the ever growing population of youkai and humans are going to need more room eventually.
You have many many questions in a single post my friend. :)
I'll go one at a time.
Ans. to First Question.
Almost everyone can die of old age, the only ones that can't are people like Kaguya and Mokou as well as the gods who keep on living until they're forgotten.
The average lifespan is hard to say, but if you look at the original stories of some youkai, like Ran the nine tailed fox, its said that it takes 1000 years to reach nine tails.
Kogasa's origins thought to be the Tsukumogami take 99 years to become a tsukumogami.
...So for most youkai, you're looking at a broad range so it would be meaningless to get an "average" of anything.
Although Keine is half youkai, she's abit special. According to her she only lives "a bit longer" than most humans. So her lifespan thought to be quite similar to humans.
Many youkai can look older if they want since most of them change in to human looks since its only "more convenient", as Orin says. In cases like Ran and Chen who are youkais originally known for using techniques on deception especially.
So there's nothing against a youkai who is not originally in human form to not look the way they want to look.
... Well looks is really a difficult topic to talk about when the official reference to looks that we have is so little...
Oh, and shrine maidens still get older, they are human after all. Also, I guess you're referring to Sanae when you say demigod, but in her case, she's a human in the first place, so unless she's worshiped after death or something and turns in to a real god, her life expectancy is no different than an average human.
The second:
It is said that youkais mature in strength and knowledge as they get older. So it's just that some youkais in Gensoukyou have lived so long that they've reached an almost godly level. (It's like trying to compare different characters with different levels.) So youkai who are considered to be of lower power just haven't lived the years. (Notice that many of the "strong" beings in Gensoukyou have lived countless years. Ex.Yukari, Ran, Yuuka,...etc.)
Since the only actual blood relation that we see in Touhou is with Suwako and Sanae (and possibly Alice and Shinki), we can't make any assumptions on genetic stuff.
So if youkai like Wriggle was to become stronger than Yuuka, it would be after Yuuka died and Wriggle lives on for a longer time than Yuuka was alive. (That is, not factoring in their abilities, if its abilites alone, Wriggle is already beating Yuuka...although Wriggle is still not smart enough to notice the extent of her abilities.)
As for the third.
Gensoukyou probably does not grow, think of it sort of like a spacious city/town, its population can grow, but its far from reaching the limit.
... Of course Yukari can always fiddle around with the borders...
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So youkai can die of age afterall....despite getting stronger with the years and being able to maintain their good looks throughout their entire life? But that would mean that the likes of Chen and Tewi will keep looking like children even if they are on their death bed. Would they spontaneously turn to dust upon a natural death? And will the youkai notice themselves their lives are about to end? You can't see it on their bodies afterall, and they only get stronger with age. Maybe they experience a sudden drop in power just before they die, feeling very weak and thus knowing their end is nigh. Do youkai also go on the Sanzu River and get re?ncarnated/sent to a an afterlife? Unlike humans, youkai don't get ghosts according to Perfect Memento. Does that mean they don't have spirits at all and will vanish forever upon death? :(
Celestials and Lunarians also officially don't die of age. However, Lunarians can still be killed with conventional weaponry and other such ways, and Celestials constantly need to fight Shinigami to avoid being taken to face judgement.
Wriggle does seem to have a greater ability than Yuuka. If Wriggle managed to gather some locusts she can get anyone to do as she says, or else she'll make said locusts devour all the food and destroy nature. Not to mention the many poisonous insects she could control, or the swarms of termites and ants to ravage homes. ...I wonder if Wriggle will end up becoming Yuuka the Second upon Yuuka's death....
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So youkai can die of age afterall....despite getting stronger with the years and being able to maintain their good looks throughout their entire life? But that would mean that the likes of Chen and Tewi will keep looking like children even if they are on their death bed. Would they spontaneously turn to dust upon a natural death? And will the youkai notice themselves their lives are about to end? You can't see it on their bodies afterall, and they only get stronger with age. Maybe they experience a sudden drop in power just before they die, feeling very weak and thus knowing their end is nigh. Do youkai also go on the Sanzu River and get re?ncarnated/sent to a an afterlife? Unlike humans, youkai don't get ghosts according to Perfect Memento. Does that mean they don't have spirits at all and will vanish forever upon death? :(
As I state, it's only an assumption, but judging from the nature of those youkais in Japanese folklore s youkais like Chen Twei Ran...etc., they can probably disguise themselves to appear differently if they wanted to.
Who knows about what will happen when they exit stage, but no matter how magnificently they live and make an exit, all that's destined to die in Gensoukyou will get carried past Sanzu River by Komachi and judged by Shikieiki.
The reincarnation, known a s Rinne (輪廻) states that weather the being is a bug, a bird or maybe even a youkai, it will get reincarnated as long as its still in the cycle of reincarnation. (That's why Yuyuko is bounded there, to stop her from reincarnation.)
What they state in perfect memento is written by Akyuu (Or her viewpoint) and is heavily biased. In that sense so you can't really call it a trust able source.
Maybe what that tries to tackle is how some youkai are seen as already being ghosts. (Like the youkai Yuki-onna (雪女) that Letty's thought to be modeled after is said to be ghosts of females that have died in the snowy mountains.)
Anyhow, have I been able to answer your question to the full degree?;)
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Though the natural death of youkai still seems vague, you have indeed answered all the other questions. It's annoying Perfect Memento has a unreliable narrator. Why can't ZUN make a clear and 100% trustable guide to Gensokyo's residents? Would clear up alot of the Fanon problems....
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Would clear up alot of the Fanon problems....
Like the total lesbians things? lol jk
Yukari would work as a narrator.
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I think Yukari would be even more unreliable a narrator than Akyu.
As for the tails, foxes get one tail every century, so it'd have to be 800 years.
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I think Reimu and Patchouli would be the only ones reliable enough to write everything down. Problem is, Reimu is too lazy to write a book and Patchy never gets out to study Gensokyo's residents...
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What about Keine? She could take a fairly accurate account of everything.
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What about Keine? She could take a fairly accurate account of everything.
Ah, yes. How could I forget about her? She actually get's around and can be very devoted to something. Not to mention she's strong enough to fend for herself.
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I think Yukari would be even more unreliable a narrator than Akyu.
As for the tails, foxes get one tail every century, so it'd have to be 800 years.
Ah, it's actually interesting since there are multiple theories, indeed one of them is get a tail every n years, and there's even a version that goes lose a tail every n years until there are none.
There are also many Chinese stories that talk about how they get their tails, but all of them say that you need a very long time (centuries to millenniums) for a fox to become a fully fledged Tenko.(天狐)
Ah, yes. How could I forget about her? She actually get's around and can be very devoted to something. Not to mention she's strong enough to fend for herself.
Well, Perfect Memento was written with the help of Keine.
Keine helped out with the history Akyuu wrote the book... with lots of biases, but I guess it can't be helped.
If only Byakuren wasn't sealed up for that time, she could've been a very reliable source...
Also, I'd personally be thrilled if there ever was a book published by Satori. I'd love to know what some people are thinking.
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They really should rename it Imperfect Memento in that case...
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Hm... Not sure if it would be alright to make a separate thread for this, so I'll just ask here.
You know those character-specific seals/insignias in the Touhou fighting games?
Does anyone know where I could find, like, a gallery with all of them?
I know there's a few you can get from spritesheets, but not all of them are present. At least, not on the ones I found.
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In the events of UFO, Nazrin, Ichirin, Murasa, and Shou are all trying to rescue Byakuren(?)
Shou is found in Makai, the place where Murasa was steering the ship to, does that mean that Shou was already in Makai, or was Shou in another part of the ship? The same could go for Nazrin...
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Well, Nazrin pretty surely used the ship. Since she ship seems to be the only way into Makai and Nazrin was outside in stage one, she must have been on the ship to get into Makai on stage five.
Which would then imply that Shou was in Makai all the time, because if she had been on the ship as well, Nazrin could have handed the Pagoda over to her there. Since she kept it till her midboss fight in stage 5 she most likely didn't meet Shou on the ship.
On the other hand, this is Touhou we're talking about, so my logic might fail :V
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Yeah, here's how I'm assuming it went:
- The amount of "UFOs" needed to unseal Byakuren was about the same as the amount needed to send the Palanquin Ship to Makai.
- Before they got the "UFOs" from the heroines in stage 4, they could only send something small or an individual to Makai.
- So, for whatever reason, they sent Shou into Makai ahead of time.
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Looking at the dialogues again, it seems that Nazrin may have not taken the ship to Makai:
The captain was looking for you, you know?
Saying, "where's she wandering off to now?" ...
Of course, Nazrin could have been just hiding in the ship to keep the pagoda hidden from Murasa until she could get it to Shou.
Shou definitely arrived in Makai before the heroine(s):
I've been waiting for you!
Most likely, the group collected a bit of the treasure and went to Makai using the ship, but they realized that they didn't have enough to break the seal. So they had Shou stay and guard it while Nazrin went back to collect more treasure and find Shou's pagoda. Nazrin then boarded the ship after finding the pagoda and hid from Murasa so she wouldn't find out about it being lost.
This is all me guessing about it of course so it may not be true.
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Ah, it's actually interesting since there are multiple theories, indeed one of them is get a tail every n years, and there's even a version that goes lose a tail every n years until there are none.
There are also many Chinese stories that talk about how they get their tails, but all of them say that you need a very long time (centuries to millenniums) for a fox to become a fully fledged Tenko.(天狐)
A fox youkai gains 3 tails after 100 years worth of training, 6 tails after 1000 years. When it reaches 9 tails, it's blessed a great power and become a strongest fox youkai. (No one knows how long it takes)
A 9-tails fox is considered one of the strongest youkai in Japan, most cunning youkai in China and most evil in Vietnam.
So as ZUN stated Ran has 9-tails, I believe she has >1500 years of training. Maybe older than Yukari, even.
And how it dies... it's quite vague, since most 9-tails fox in myth had to be killed by a hero before it destroy everything. The fox has 10 lives contains in its 9 tails and main body. If you kill by destroying the body, it will turn to a flame and resurrect. Rumor has it, when a Kyuubi dies by age, it'll turn back to a normal fox.
The age of a youkai. I believe aside of Gods, everything can die from aging. Many youkai spent their life searching how to be young/immortal. Yukari may used her gapping ability to restrict the time inside her body, while Yuka/Byakuren has so much magic power that automatically maintains their appearance for a long time. Aya is a tengu so yeah. Tewi... she is the luckiest xD
Not sure if this helps. ^^
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'Nam has ninetails ?
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Yes, in "Đại Việt sử k? to?n thư" (Great Viet's history record) Lac Long Quan slayed the three evil youkai: Fish youkai, Tree youkai, Fox youkai (which happened to be a 9 tails).
And it's the only 9 tails in Vietnam's myth, the worst was only 3 tails that randomly go stealing husbands.
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Interesting... since for nine tailed foxes I look towards the Chinese and Japanese models more, I didn't know about the Viet story... Thank you, I'll look in to that one too!
Personally I look towards 千年弧狸精 i.e. 妲己(D?jǐ) that appears in Chinese folklore when I think about nine tailed foxes since those were the baddest of the bad that I know.
Or one of the Japanese native faiths, the Oinarisan the fox god.
So it was nice finding about some other stuff to reference nine tailed foxes.
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Noooo Daji
She is believed to be one, but it's never confirmed. And yeah she was one of the worst women Chinese ever known. 9 tails foxes in Japanese sometimes can be native god, or some on the "good side", however Chinese myth didn't like it. Haha I personally like foxes so screw it, they're strong and beautiful <3
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A fox youkai gains 3 tails after 100 years worth of training, 6 tails after 1000 years. When it reaches 9 tails, it's blessed a great power and become a strongest fox youkai. (No one knows how long it takes)
A 9-tails fox is considered one of the strongest youkai in Japan, most cunning youkai in China and most evil in Vietnam.
So as ZUN stated Ran has 9-tails, I believe she has >1500 years of training. Maybe older than Yukari, even.
And how it dies... it's quite vague, since most 9-tails fox in myth had to be killed by a hero before it destroy everything. The fox has 10 lives contains in its 9 tails and main body. If you kill by destroying the body, it will turn to a flame and resurrect. Rumor has it, when a Kyuubi dies by age, it'll turn back to a normal fox.
The age of a youkai. I believe aside of Gods, everything can die from aging. Many youkai spent their life searching how to be young/immortal. Yukari may used her gapping ability to restrict the time inside her body, while Yuka/Byakuren has so much magic power that automatically maintains their appearance for a long time. Aya is a tengu so yeah. Tewi... she is the luckiest xD
I thought fox youkai where at their most powerful state when they first gain 9 tails after 800/1000 years, and then lose them again over the course of hundreds of years 'till they have four again, turning them into Tenko: nigh Godlike and immortal beings. Maybe only a select few of Kyubi can turn into a Tenko after several reincarnations.
But alot of characters are explicitly stated to be immortal. While most youkai are indeed just long-lived, Byakuren/Greater Magicians and Eirin/Lunarians are unable to die of old age. Celestials and Immortals are described as perfectly immortal (though Celestials have to fight shinigami and Immortals aren't as durable as most other Touhou races, getting blown up with a few shots).
But as far as I see, that the characters that are unable to die by natural means (as in, they can't die of age or sickness like mortals, and have to be forcefully killed/are unable to die at all) are:
Mokou & Kaguya (Immortal)
Eirin, Kotohime and Yorihime (Never ending life)
Byakuren (Ageless)
Remilia & Flandre (Undead)
Yuyuko, Mima, Murasa & the Prismrivers (Dead. Youmu doesn't count since she's still half human and could be killed.)
Kanako, Suwako, Hina, Minoriko and Shizuha (Faith Gods, and are thus immortal. Will vanish when they lose all their faith though)
Shinki, Shikieiki and Dragon God (True Gods/Infinite Beings, and are thus perfectly immortal. Might be able to be destroyed by a being greater than them, but there's probably hardly anything stronger than them)
Komachi (Death itself)
Tenshi (Perfectly immortal thanks to Heavenly Peaches. Shinigami still chase them down however)
Yukari might be immortal, thanks to her ability, but it isn't explicitly stated. Yuuka might have once been a human, so that would mean she's a Greater Magician now, and be thus ageless.
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Eirin, Kotohime and Yorihime (Never ending life)
No, they're living forever due to the pure environment of the Moon, so if they set foot on Earth they will die (death by perversion from MoTK and danbooru before reaching Japan.)
About the peach I think I already said that. Hax fruit lol.
[I thought fox youkai where at their most powerful state when they first gain 9 tails after 800/1000 years, and then loses them again over the course of hundreds of years 'till they have four again
I didn't know about that, never hear of a fox youkai losing its tail (apart of getting hunt and cut off). The mother of the lover of Evil Ox King in Journey to the West was the only fox youkai that died from aging, and never reached 9 tails.
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Yuyuko, Mima, Murasa & the Prismrivers (Dead. Youmu doesn't count since she's still half human and could be killed.)
Ghosts can be "killed" too.
Apparently ghosts like Yuyuko die (Almost disintegrate) when the power of the sword of hisou is used on them (Tensi's Sword).
So, nobody can say the same won't work on Mima on other ghosts.
(Another way to "get rid of" Yuyuko is to get the Saigyouyou to bloom, weakening her seal to that place and Yuyuko will reenter the Reincarnation cycle)
As for foxes ant their tails... there's tons of sayings about those things so you're free to believe which ever...
but if you're looking at Ran I'd say that her background is either Chinese or Japanese folklore from her spell cards, so maybe be specific to those foklores when speaking about Ran.
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Ghosts can be "killed" too.
Apparently ghosts like Yuyuko die (Almost disintegrate) when the power of the sword of hisou is used on them (Tensi's Sword).
So, nobody can say the same won't work on Mima on other ghosts.
(Another way to "get rid of" Yuyuko is to get the Saigyouyou to bloom, weakening her seal to that place and Yuyuko will reenter the Reincarnation cycle)
I said natural ways, like death by age or sickness. Common, simple ways of passing on. Getting cut in half by a divine blade or awakening a sealed demon tree don't sound like natural deaths to me.
Everything can be killed, if you have the right weapon atleast. I'm however talking about dying on your own, by natural forces. No trauma involved.
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I said natural ways, like death by age or sickness. Common, simple ways of passing on. Getting cut in half by a divine blade or awakening a sealed demon tree don't sound like natural deaths to me.
Everything can be killed, if you have the right weapon atleast. I'm however talking about dying on your own, by natural forces. No trauma involved.
Better count Tewi in there. She's the best optimization of natural health that you can get.
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Short version: Eirin won't die of old age, but she will die if she is killed; Kaguya will not.
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OK true, but for Yuyuko, its more like she's binded there in a unnatural way, and if it wasn't for the seal she wouldn't be there now.
Short version: Eirin won't die of old age, but she will die if she is killed; Kaguya will not.
You're forgetting about the Hourai Elixer Eirin drank my friend.
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Or ... the Watatsukis, whatever. :V
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You're forgetting about the Hourai Elixer Eirin drank my friend.
Let's get the facts straight people: Eirin has never officialy been mentioned to have drunk the elixer. It's higly possible AND understandable, but there is NO official material stating she has consumed the Hourai Elixer herself. Because of that, we cannot possibly claim that Eirin is a Hourai immortal herself. She does state she extended her life with special drugs, but there is no indication she used the Hourai Elixer. It's a crime to drink it afterall, and though she has committed many felonies, perhaps she considers drinking the elixer crossing the line.
I don't understand where people are getting this 'Eirin's a Hourai Immortal' idea from....
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I don't understand where people are getting this 'Eirin's a Hourai Immortal' idea from....
Yeah, if I am not mistaken the Ghost Team's ending pretty much disproves that theory.
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Yea, so I was looking for this Emotional Skyscrapper Remix...
I think I found it at NND, the song had a vocal, and it was very calm. The vocalist had a sweet voice too..
The lyrics were in japanese, but there was a part of it where she just sang the song with "la la la"s, so I think it can be quite easy to identify.. D:
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Yeah, if I am not mistaken the Ghost Team's ending pretty much disproves that theory.
*Sigh* Back to the topic of Eirin and immortality... in case you missed the first conference about this which happened a few pages ago... (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=3947.msg264722#msg264722)
Although it has not been bluntly put in illuminating ink that "Eirin drank the elixir", we have nothing that disproves the theory, rather we have lots of facts that allow us to think that she has used the elixir.
Yea, so I was looking for this Emotional Skyscrapper Remix...
I think I found it at NND, the song had a vocal, and it was very calm. The vocalist had a sweet voice too..
The lyrics were in japanese, but there was a part of it where she just sang the song with "la la la"s, so I think it can be quite easy to identify.. D:
Hmm I think I might know which arrange that is..., let me go on a search frenzy! XD
I'll edit when I find it.
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*Sigh* Back to the topic of Eirin and immortality... in case you missed the first conference about this which happened a few pages ago... (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=3947.msg264722#msg264722)
Although it has not been bluntly put in illuminating ink that "Eirin drank the elixir", we have nothing that disproves the theory, rather we have lots of facts that allow us to think that she has used the elixir.
That is no official material, and in the Ghost Team ending Eirin almost died because Yuyuko poisoned her. She had to quickly make a cure for crying out loud. Hourai Elixer protects one from all diseases and poisons.
Thus, Eirin's not immortal.
And I can't find anywhere either that Lunarians become short lived once they leave the Earth. From what I've read, they're ageless anywhere. And even then, Eirin lived billions of years on the moon. The greatest sum of her life had been spent on the moon, where she's 'susposedly' ageless. She wouldn't have needed the Hourai Elixer to live so long when she was on the damn moon all that time in it's so-called barrier of purity and eternity. Your statement is extremely flawed, Sabino.
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People, you really made me play through IN with Ghost Team again just to see the ending. (Turned out I hadn't even 1cc'd it with them on normal).
Unless I have an outdated translation patch, which might actually be the case, then this is my statement:
Yuyuko implied that Kaguya is a definite enemy of her's because the Hourai Elixir prevents her (and by extension everyone she gives it to) from dying and entering the Netherworld, thereby making Yuyuko's position obsolete and lonely. Yuyuko didn't use the same reasoning to imply that Eirin was an enemy; she said she would've been quite useful to have around.
Yuyuko tried to poison Eirin. Either she had made herself immune against this kind of poison beforehand or she used medicine directly after that to prevent herself from dying.
Eirin said that she wanted to make medicine using Kaguya's ability, not that she drank it herself. From the context I gathered that Eirin needs Kaguya's ability to make a cure for either her own poisoning or for the lunacy Youmu got from the full moon, or possibly for something entirely different. One possible explanation would be that Eirin needs Kaguya to manipulate time in such a way that the herbs and plants from which she draws the ingredients are in the required state to harvest them, just like Sakuya used her time manipulation to make bamboo flowers bloom instantly (I think that was said in some PoFV dialogue).
So yeah, unless my translation patch is outdated, I still don't have a reason to believe Eirin drank the Hourai Elixir. Do you have any other sources to prove your point..?
Also, Okashii, you should put that information of yours in spoiler tags. Really.
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Eirin, Kotohime and Yorihime (Never ending life)
Don't you mean Toyohime :V
I would point out Ellen being eternally young (or so she claims) but she's not really a Touhou character. She's a cameo.
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Hourai Elixer protects one from all diseases and poisons. Thus, Eirin's not immortal.
And I can't find anywhere either that Lunarians become short lived once they leave the Earth.
Protection form diseases and poisons>
Than how would one explain Mokou (Who bluntly says she drank the elixer) getting sick?
From that I cease to evaluate this statement about disease and poisons too heavily.
Lunarians and lifespan>
Impurity makes a limit to life and lunarians live in a place without impurity, thus they are virtually immortal. Earth is stated to be full of purity.
Materials non official and flawed?>
Shure the blunt statement of Eirin drinking the elixir is nothing official but almost everything else in my original post and my posts after that about the elixir are derived from official material. If you're unshure of material that doesn't seem to be official, please tell me. I'd probably be able to tell you where it's derived from. (Unless you're pointing to the talk about what ZUN said when he was drunk or the stuff about who Eirin may be modeled after.)
People, you really made me play through IN with Ghost Team again just to see the ending. (Turned out I hadn't even 1cc'd it with them on normal).
So yeah, unless my translation patch is outdated, I still don't have a reason to believe Eirin drank the Hourai Elixir. Do you have any other sources to prove your point..?
Hmm that's a bit different in idea of what I got from that scene... you'd need to give me time to re-look that part.
But if its other suggested scenes upon this topic I can provide you with several more, one off the bat is the Earth and impurities argument I brought up earlier.
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Wow I can't believe we dig this up again. C'mon now, it's unclear. Eirin never stated she drank the elixir, which doesn't mean anything, she might drink it and she might not. It doesn't change the fact that she is the oldest one around in Gensokyo.
The Hourai Elixir is believed to grand :
- Eternal youth: this is still debatable, as we know so far there is only 2 people surely drank it: Kaguya who controls eternity and Mokou who had the power of Phoenix. Anyway, if even Yukari and Kanako are still "forever 17 years old" I think it's normal for Eirin too.
- Perfect health: Mokou said it, and we actually need to believe that. Take a look at this (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate:_Chapter_4), Mokou only feel cold, not having a cold. And for short
My immortal body was in quite good condition, despite how I neglected it.
However, since Eirin is a sage + a pharmacist she can take care of her health just fine.
- True immortality: by the way, if you cut Mokou's head, will she generate a new body, or a new head? I think the head and body will still lives and got healed when they place them together.
So the only valid point is "True immortality", therefore unless someone kills Eirin (which is quite hard) we can't confirm it. Just drop this topic anyway ~_~
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Wow I can't believe we dig this up again. C'mon now, it's unclear. Eirin never stated she drank the elixir, which doesn't mean anything, she might drink it and she might not. It doesn't change the fact that she is the oldest one around in Gensokyo.
The Hourai Elixir is believed to grand :
- Eternal youth: this is still debatable, as we know so far there is only 2 people surely drank it: Kaguya who controls eternity and Mokou who had the power of Phoenix. Anyway, if even Yukari and Kanako are still "forever 17 years old" I think it's normal for Eirin too.
- Perfect health: Mokou said it, and we actually need to believe that. Take a look at this (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate:_Chapter_4), Mokou only feel cold, not having a cold. And for shortHowever, since Eirin is a sage + a pharmacist she can take care of her health just fine.
- True immortality: by the way, if you cut Mokou's head, will she generate a new body, or a new head? I think the head and body will still lives and got healed when they place them together.
So the only valid point is "True immortality", therefore unless someone kills Eirin (which is quite hard) we can't confirm it. Just drop this topic anyway ~_~
I think stuff like blowing up the body to smithereens or cutting it apart in several ways will result in Mokou reviving with a new body at sunrise. Afterall, Immortals are said to revive completely with a fixed up body the next day if the damage can't be healed right away. So, a gunshot or severed arm will heal or grow back, but decapitating her would result in her reviving the next day. The remaining body parts will probably burn up or something like that. If she were cut across her middle, her lower body would burn up and her upper body would grow a new lower body. Head seems the most important afterall.
If both severed parts grew back a body, we would have an ever growing army of Mokous and Kaguyas fighting each other every day, ravaging Gensokyo completely.
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So the only valid point is "True immortality", therefore unless someone kills Eirin (which is quite hard) we can't confirm it. Just drop this topic anyway ~_~
Agreed, unclear is probably the best.
BTW I was searching for stuff on this topic a while ago (during the conference few pages ago)
and many of my the sources I found in Japanese supported the view of Eirin taking the elixir.
...But I'll keep it down since I don't want to stir up trouble.
If you're interested:
Japanese Wikipedia (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9Project%E3%81%AE%E7%99%BB%E5%A0%B4%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%83%A9%E3%82%AF%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC#.E5.85.AB.E6.84.8F_.E6.B0.B8.E7.90.B3)
Nico Nico encyclopedia (http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E5%85%AB%E6%84%8F%E6%B0%B8%E7%90%B3)
Japanese Touhou wiki (http://thwiki.info/?%C5%EC%CA%FD%A5%B9%A5%EC%C5%AA%A5%AD%A5%E3%A5%E9%BE%D2%B2%F0%2F2#a9c9cb9b)
Pixiv encyclopedia (http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E5%85%AB%E6%84%8F%E6%B0%B8%E7%90%B3)
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I do have two things I ant to add on this matter. If I don't my heart will pop out of my chest, sprout limbs and start beating the shit out of me. I just can't end this without getting this off my chest.
I have two theories on why the whole 'Eirin is (not) immortal' business.
1) Eirin is indeed immortal, and has consumed the Hourai Elixer. However, she has consumed a flawed Hourai Elixer.
Think about it. Mokou used to have black hair, and didn't have any magic power whatsoever. However, once she drank the Hourai Elixer, her hair turned white over the years, and she obtained the power of the Phoenix. Kaguya still has black hair, and she doesn't have phoenix powers She fights with her own magical knowledge. Kaguya got an elixer from Eirin, genius of the Moon. Mokou stole hers from some bloke on Mount Fuji. No one can make the Hourai Elixer as perfect as Eirin, who had Kaguya's eternity powers to help her out, and the Hourai Elixer is nigh impossible to create for mosts. This dude had made/obtained an imperfect Hourai Elixer, which, while giving immortality, doesn't protect one from diseases, and makes your hair age none the less. This gave Mokou white/grey hair: her hair didn't stay youthful.
The Hourai Elixer needs an 'eternal ingredient'. Kaguya could make a perfect one with Eirin because she used her power of Eternity. The Fuji man didn't have an eternal princess around, so he used an alternative: the soul/feathers of a phoenix, an eternal being. This however also gives the drinker of this Elixer phoenix powers. Thus Kaguya stayed the same as she is, while Mokou got uber buffed to pyro extraordinair.
My point here? Eirin also has white hair, like Mokou, while she claims she doesn't age. I think Eirin tested a proto type of the Hourai Elixer on herself, one which wasn't prepared well or lacked the Eternity power provided by Kaguya. Thus, once Eirin reached Earth, her hair started to turn grey/white thanks to the impurity of Earth. Her hair aged too. It would also explain why she's not immune to poison. She's still vulnerable to it. She would revive ofcourse, but it might be a lot more risky for her than Mokou and Kaguya. Or maybe dying and reviving is a bitch and she'd rather cure herself.
On the other hand, maybe Eirin only got hightened regeneration and eternal youth, but can still be killed. That's why Yuyuko didn't mention anything about Eirin being unable to die: she still has a few of those 'death points' Yuyuko uses.
Or alternatively:
2) ZUN ignored the 'immune to diseases' point to increase drama, or was drunk/forgetful while writing it. Everyone in Gensokyo is an unreliable narrator, even ZUN. It should just be ignored entirely, like how Perfect Memento musn't be taken for truth either. ZUN tends to fill in bullshit for trolling/due to his own lacking memory/'cuz he's drunk. And drinking that much beer all day will have negative effects on your memory capabilities...or your brain cells in general.
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2) ZUN ignored the 'immune to diseases' point to increase drama, or was drunk/forgetful while writing it. Everyone in Gensokyo is an unreliable narrator, even ZUN. It should just be ignored entirely, like how Perfect Memento musn't be taken for truth either. ZUN tends to fill in bullshit for trolling/due to his own lacking memory/'cuz he's drunk. And drinking that much beer all day will have negative effects on your memory capabilities...or your brain cells in general.
So, wait, your argument is "my pet fan-theory must be correct, because the creator of the series is wrong"?
And we already covered point 1 earlier. Lunarians are already immortal in the sense of "don't grow old or die of old age or illness," but they can still be killed by injury or poisons. The Hourai elixir prevents any kind of death.
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So, wait, your argument is "my pet fan-theory must be correct, because the creator of the series is wrong"?
And we already covered point 1 earlier. Lunarians are already immortal in the sense of "don't grow old or die of old age or illness," but they can still be killed by injury or poisons. The Hourai elixir prevents any kind of death.
How else can it be explained that the Hourai Elixer is explicitly described as to prevent all illnesses, yet one of the stories says the contrary? It's an incredible inconsistency. I think the 'prevent illnesses' is far more believable than 'your absolutely immortal but you can still die from malaria'. Why would something that is immortal, and thus have perfect regenerative and resistance abilities, get sick?! Or do I have to believe that the common cold doesn't have a cure, and that not even Hourai Elixer works?! That's the biggest pile of rubbish I've ever heard!
And regarding the 'Eirin drank a flawed elixer' statement, I know Lunarians live forever, but Sabino keeps spouting this nonsense that they have limited life spans on Earth! RIDICULOUS! NOTHING states that! But since Sabino is to stubborn to admit that Eirin is ageless anywhere, I just try and make a compromise to fit all the loose ends together without having Sabino start complaining again! But now I get all the others on my hide, who all now go against THIS theory! So what do I have to say people? Tell Sabino to shut it and stay with 'Eirin's ageless', or try and make an agreement by stating that 'Eirin's an imperfect immortal'? Your choice! I don't know what to believe anymore in all this inconsistent chaos...
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Yes but I'm still with the "Eirin didn't actually drink the elixir" crowd.
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ITT we RAEG trying to make logic out of flying lolis :V
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We're nerds. Arguing is what we do. :yukkuri:
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(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
Seriously, though, there is no definite answer. There a sources that seem to contradict each other, and the possibility of one or the other (or both) having made a mistake is actually not that small, so we just don't know. You can think anything you want as long as you don't try to impose your own beliefs unto others against their will. Dark Tewi, and all that.
It is sort of like religious freedom, and like with religious freedom, I am going to decide for myself to be sceptical. I will only start to believe in a concept with absent evidence if it both increases the enjoyability of my life and still has no noticable negative effect on the rest of my perception of reality, i.e. I'm going to take up an agnostic position.
Yes, whether or not Eirin drank the Hourai Elixir is a matter of religion. Now bring in the acolytes! >:D
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*deadpan* Burn the heretics.
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*deadpan* Burn the heretics.
YEAH! I'll get my torch! >:D
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Oof. I don't get IOSYS anymore.
Need to ask.
Are they still an actual individual music group or do they organize albums for other artists now?
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YEAH! I'll get my torch! >:D
I'll get my rusty carving knife!
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I suddenly have an urge to spread my info about "Hourai Elixir"... but no, you guys will cry :V
Just wanna say one thing: This is ZUN's work, and ask he stated, Touhou isn't something "serious" in his manner. Therefore, the plot/canon can be flawed (actually it has as many hole as a net). As long as it's acceptable in his manner, it's fine.
And I never consider Touhou as "flying lolis", it's like an insult, the same as "Pad maid". So if you please, try not say it too much :V
And the official fanbooks, it depends. If you're one who thinks "Ah, this is the world of ZUN." then trust it. However, if you think "Touhou is serious business." then it's just points of view of random character (Aya, Marisa, Akyu). Neither is correct and neither is incorrect. Have fun :V
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And I never consider Touhou as "flying lolis", it's like an insult, the same as "Pad maid". So if you please, try not say it too much :V
But...the whole "pad maid" thing is a particularly stupid bit of fanon, and "flying lolis" is quite simply the series as a whole.
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Just means some people won't enjoy some jokes, now people know and now people can be a bit more subtle about the joke. No? :V
Sorta understand since I get a strange sting in my heart every time people call Kanako an old hag.
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Well, I think it's understandable for EoDS, but from PCB they're pretty much more mature. I mean, just look at MoF, only Suwako can be considered "loli". Even Mystia and Wriggle look like teenager to me.
And, my definition of "loli" is less than 12 years old.
Sorta understand since I get a strange sting in my heart every time people call Kanako an old hag.
Well she indeed is the most mature lady in the whole game up to now. The next in line is Byakuren xD.
But yes, I call them "ladies" :">
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Say, I recently thought up a story concept that might prove to be interesting, but fiirst I want to know if this is real or not:
Is there more than one Gensokyo?
Are there multiple magical sanctuaries for youkai? Gensokyo seems waaaaaay to small to house the multitude of the world's magical beings. Also, Japan is an awfully inconvenient place to travel to for magical creatures from Greece, Great Britain or Normandy. And there have to be more magical beings powerful enough to create a border. There are enough beings who can match Yukari's might (Shikieiki comes to mind), so there should be more magical beings who created a sanctuary to protect their kin.
Also, Alice's dolls are named after mythical lands, so she claims (atleast, I heard that somewhere). A hint that there are Gensokyo's hidden in Holland, France, China, and Great Britain?
I think there might be hidden lands in Egypt, Normandy and Mexico too, since those countries also provided loads of mythology. I doubt Japan is the only country with a magic sanctuary. It would be fun if Reimu actually visited these other magical lands and met up with their 'Reimu's' and 'Yukari's'.
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Gensokyo is not a guild from an MMO where people go "oh hey this is our territory, welcome to the elitism."
It once was a land in Japan, when there was a youkai hunt (similar to witch hunt in EU) and the Hakurei family created the border to protect the youkai. Let's say it like this:
Once upon a time, every race lived happily together. One day, human realized how weak they are, compared to youkai and oni. However, instead of training themselves to be a Celestial, human chose the fastest way to keep their pride: eliminating the stronger. Thus, with technique, knowledge and lies, human kept killing, chasing the "evil" to their end. But not all human were like that, the Hakurei, for instance, felt ashamed and pitiful for the youkai, thus they decided to help them, and go back to the peaceful life they once had.
Thanks to the power of Dragon God and Yakumo Yukari, the Border was created successfully and separated a small land to the rest of the world. Then, the land was named "Gensokyo" (Land of Illusions) to remember the past where human, youkai, oni lived happily, now is just folktales and legends.
So, basically, there may be other places where demons/devil hide themselves around the world, but none can have the peace Gensokyo obtains. You must see the difference.
And none said Japan is the only one has sanctuaries. However, they're not somewhere people can just go visit as they please.
And Shanghai is one of the most popular cities in China, where also has the myth of Hourai Island/Mountain. I already said about Hourai so you can just read it again somewhere in this topic.
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I think Fortevn summed it up quite nicely, as for Alice and her dolls...
Alice blows up her dolls so names probably won't even matter. In the first place there is nothing official about the names of the dolls except for the fact that it appears in a spell card.
Even in fandom we only know Shanghai and Hourai and nothing else, so I really want to question where the person who told you that got the idea from... (Probably the IOSYS PV... Blame them for everything :P)
Well, you could probably keep on going with your idea of storyline if you make it a "parallel universe" sort of setting, or maybe Yukari fiddled with the gap and opened our Bizzao Gensoukyou thread?
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I've always wondered the significance of Kanako's onbashiras...
When is Reitaisai and Comiket usually held?
Also, what's 'Elitism' or however it's spelled?
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I've always wondered the significance of Kanako's onbashiras...
When is Reitaisai and Comiket usually held?
Also, what's 'Elitism' or however it's spelled?
Don't know about Kanako's onbashiras.
Comiket and Reitaisai (2009 + 2010) are usually held at the cool Tokyo Big Sight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Big_Sight).
Elitism is like patriotism except it's the higher ups versus the "unintelligent". Or something like that. Either case, it's the practice of saying "I'm better than you". I don't know, go ask someone experienced in that.
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And I never consider Touhou as "flying lolis", it's like an insult, the same as "Pad maid".
You Kogasa'd me.
Well she indeed is the most mature lady in the whole game up to now. The next in line is Byakuren xD.
But yes, I call them "ladies" :">
I remember you calling Yukari a bitch just a few days ago. Elaborate ? :V
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Well she indeed is the most mature lady in the whole game up to now. The next in line is Byakuren xD.
But yes, I call them "ladies" :">
Actually... Eirin is probably the oldest, really. And Byakuren spent most of her "life" sealed away, so I doubt she "aged" at all. Technically speaking, I doubt she's even out of her 20s yet. She does seem to be filled with the exuberance and optimism of youth, after all~
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Actually... Eirin is probably the oldest, really. And Byakuren spent most of her "life" sealed away, so I doubt she "aged" at all. Technically speaking, I doubt she's even out of her 20s yet. She does seem to be filled with the exuberance and optimism of youth, after all~
Byakuren's permanently stuck in her late teens/early twenties. While most youkai tend to change slightly over the years, and Lunarians (I think) also change a bit during the course of their life times, Byakuren is frozen in her current age. She doesn't get older, age-wise nor body-wise. Even if you call her over 4000 years old, she technically still is seventeen eighteen. All part of being a greater youkai magician. Also, the requirement for becoming a greater magician is learning to overcome your temper. In other words: Byakuren is always happy and peppy because she has become physically unable to get angry.
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You Kogasa'd me.
I remember you calling Yukari a bitch just a few days ago. Elaborate ? :V
You should know the difference between friendly chats and serious business, and I'm not a Touhou Encyclopaedia.
Actually... Eirin is probably the oldest, really. And Byakuren spent most of her "life" sealed away, so I doubt she "aged" at all. Technically speaking, I doubt she's even out of her 20s yet. She does seem to be filled with the exuberance and optimism of youth, after all~
Well I was talking about the "appearance". Eirin looks definitely younger than Kanako and Byakuren in my viewpoint.
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Question - what's wrong with the "perspective" of the game? You see your own character in a top-down view (from the sky), but the player can see all of the boss's body, face, etc. It looks like the boss is floating mid-air looking at the sky. :V
Also, some boss enemies are very very big compared to the player. Is this because of ZUN's poor art, or is there another reason?
Is the game just an "abstract" representation of Danmaku? It makes no sense that the player dodges slow bullets and the boss stands still and gets hit by very fast bullets.
It's like Civilization, or Hearts of Iron, right? Where a tank is as big as a nation. It's just a visual strategic representation of a Danmaku fight.
Or ZUN's art just makes no sense.
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Question - what's wrong with the "perspective" of the game? You see your own character in a top-down view (from the sky), but the player can see all of the boss's body, face, etc. It looks like the boss is floating mid-air looking at the sky. :V
You can't be held back by common sense in Gensokyo!
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Also, some boss enemies are very very big compared to the player. Is this because of ZUN's poor art, or is there another reason?
I actually discussed this with several other members of MotK in this old thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4338.0). It'll give you a lot of info and theories regarding Touhou characters' size and the workings of Gensokyo magic. It was really fun to talk about, and we plan to expand it one day again. I hope you enjoy.
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Actually it's just because Touhou is a doujin game which focus on music and bullet-pattern. ZUN probably didn't care and there is no meaning behind it.
Please don't complex things. I mean, it's fine for us to give theories to have a good laugh, but for topic like this should just give the obvious explanation.
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I actually discussed this with several other members of MotK in this old thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4338.0). It'll give you a lot of info and theories regarding Touhou characters' size and the workings of Gensokyo magic. It was really fun to talk about, and we plan to expand it one day again. I hope you enjoy.
I'd SO ress that topic because of Iku's sprite's ginormous size
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Byakuren's permanently stuck in her late teens/early twenties. While most youkai tend to change slightly over the years, and Lunarians (I think) also change a bit during the course of their life times, Byakuren is frozen in her current age. She doesn't get older, age-wise nor body-wise. Even if you call her over 4000 years old, she technically still is seventeen eighteen.angry.[/i]
Bykuren>
Watch how you word stuff, since Byakuren officially aged. (Read the .txt for more details)
She constantly needs to use "un-aging" magic to return her to her good looking self.
Oh, and if you're interested she appears in some of the really old Japanese documents. Even in picture.
She's quite the...er... old ha*NAMUSAN-ed*
Question - what's wrong with the "perspective" of the game?
It's like Civilization, or Hearts of Iron, right? Where a tank is as big as a nation. It's just a visual strategic representation of a Danmaku fight.
Yeah you should think it like many of the other shooters which size does not make any sense at all.
We've seen tons of humongous tanks and "the world's strongest back fighting air craft" which were all of crazy size. Let's just think shooters that consist of player vs. stages are supposed to be like that.
Since we never complain to stuff like this (http://www.geocities.jp/moetarou_2000/battleg.jpg).
Why should we start complaining now? XD
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Bykuren>
Watch how you word stuff, since Byakuren officially aged. (Read the .txt for more details)
She constantly needs to use "un-aging" magic to return her to her good looking self.
Oh, and if you're interested she appears in some of the really old Japanese documents. Even in picture.
She's quite the...er... old ha*NAMUSAN-ed*
As far as I know, it's literally an anti-aging power, and it's on full automatic. She doesn't need to constantly cast it on herself, in fear of growing old again, but the spell is permanent. She doesn't need to recast it. Even if you drain all her power she'll still have eternal youth. It isn't really a spell.It's more a characeristic of her race. True, fully developed youkai mages (or, as I refer to them, Greater Magicians) are automatically immortal (age wise. You can still kill them by blasting their head off, ofcourse). It's like how Lunarians are also eternally youthful age wise. It isn't a spell, it's their very being.
You can read this in the Perfect Memento article on Mages. I know Perfect Memento is unreliable, but this seems like the real deal. And I don't know where you go the 'Byakuren needs to constantly recast her immortality spell' thing from....
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Ok, points taken, but we don't know if the anti-aging power is the same thing as that of Patuli or Alice (More of, looking at the description differences, I'd say they are completely different things.) so we can't state anything about the characteristics of the spell.
So, I'm just saying you shouldn't glomp her together with everything else and make it sound like she's never seen age before.
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Byakuren's profile clearly stated she obtained the power to be young. So there are 2 possibilities:
1. It's magic: there are 2 kind of magic, a casting and a passive one. In Byakuren's case, I actually think it's the latter. However, since it's magic it requires the mana/magic power of the caster, even if it's the passive kind. Additionally, Byakuren is using magic to buff herself, so it's very obvious she has a great pool of mana to back it up. But it doesn't change the fact that when she's out of it, she's gone.
2. It's a bliss/curse: Byakuren may got this kind of 'power' when she's seeking eternal youth. This is very possible for it to be a natural bliss/curse, which Byakuren cast it on herself via a ritual. By using this, the youth will not fade away as long as she's alive.
The "age" is simply a term we human use to describe "how many year one has been living", so it's rather the experience, not the appearance. Byakuren's body/anatomy/whatever can be that of a 18/20/22 years old but it doesn't change the truth that she has the number of 4 digits for her birthday cake's candles.
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Ok, points taken, but we don't know if the anti-aging power is the same thing as that of Patuli or Alice (More of, looking at the description differences, I'd say they are completely different things.) so we can't state anything about the characteristics of the spell.
So, I'm just saying you shouldn't glomp her together with everything else and make it sound like she's never seen age before.
Patchouli and Alice are completely different things to begin with, according to PM. Patchouli was born a youkai-magician; Alice was born a human. They each required a completely different type of magic to become "full fledged youkai-magicians."
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I still don't know if Alice became a youkai by the dark grimmoire or something else haha.
But she is still one of the beauties in Gensokyo :V
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Patchouli and Alice are completely different things to begin with, according to PM. Patchouli was born a youkai-magician; Alice was born a human. They each required a completely different type of magic to become "full fledged youkai-magicians."
Perfect Memento also notes that they aren't completey full-fledged yet. They're youkai magicians, yes, and they'll licve for thousand of yearsm, but they'll eventually die a natural death (this type I refer to as Intermediate Mages). They have learned to transcend the need for food. However, to become full-fledged, you need to transcend your temper (like I described last time). Only then will you become a full-fledged youkai mage (which I refer to as Greater Magicians), who are unable to grow old and to die natural deaths (ofcourse you can still kill them with human weaponry, but they won't die of age). As far as I understand, Byakuren is this. Patchouli and Alice are still aiming for this (especially Patchy).
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Correction:
There are two types of magicians: those who were born as magicians and humans who became magicians.
At the point when they become complete magicians, their growth (aging) stops (*1).
Magicians by birth can use magic from the beginning; like humans, they grow, age, and have a limited lifespan.
Then, when they learn Shachuu [literally, "abandoning temper"] magic (*2), they become long-lived, complete magicians.
In the case of those who were originally human, when in the course of their study of magic they learn Shashoku [literally, "abandoning food"] magic (*3), they become magicians.
After that, it's the same as for normal magicians.
1: There are those who are attempting to create magic to restore their youth, but......
2: Magic to stop one's growth. It can only be used on oneself.
3: Magic that allows you to compensate for not eating food via magic power. It can only be used on oneself.
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So if a human learns Sashoku, is said human immediatly as long lived as youkai magicians who learned Shachuu? Or do the human-turned-youkai magicians also need to learn Shachuu to completely stop aging? (with Sashoku only giving slowed aging?)
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... Now that you mention it, good question. I'd been assuming it's the former (and this is therefore the way I'd been doing it in my fanon -- c.f. Marisa's comments in Perfect Square).
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... Now that you mention it, good question. I'd been assuming it's the former (and this is therefore the way I'd been doing it in my fanon -- c.f. Marisa's comments in Perfect Square).
Yeah, because of that I made that Lesser > Intermediate > Greater hierachy. Lesser Magician is anyone who knows a decent bit of magic, Intermediate can be a human who learned Shashoku or a naturally born youkai magician and Greater Magician is a youkai magician who learned Shachuu or a Shashoku human who learned Shachuu. Lesser: human life span. Intermediate: youkai life span. Greater: Infinite lifespan.
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How do I unlock DS extra? I have 52 cards captued but it also says 1 *moon runes*, what is that?
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How do I unlock DS extra? I have 52 cards captued but it also says 1 *moon runes*, what is that?
Clear 1 scene in each level (1-12) and you must have 55 scenes total cleared.
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Clear 1 scene in each level (1-12) and you must have 55 scenes total cleared.
you're telling me I have to clear something in 12 >:(
Guess I'll go for >:D
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you're telling me I have to clear something in 12 >:(
Guess I'll go for >:D
I'm wrong, it's actually 53 total scenes cleared (1 scene cleared from each level for 1 to 12 still applies though)
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Thought it was 52, ah well I'm on the last spoiler now.
does some1 know what this means:
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6576/moonrunes.th.png) (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/moonrunes.png/)
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Thought it was 52, ah well I'm on the last spoiler now.
does some1 know what this means:
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6576/moonrunes.th.png) (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/moonrunes.png/)
I translated the same thing in DS omake text thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5337.msg283329#msg283329) if you're interested.
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I translated the same thing in DS omake text thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5337.msg283329#msg283329) if you're interested.
exactly what I wanted
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What's being remixed in the Kinema Kan 2 ending/credits?
Also, I'll bring up a question I had before, since it didn't appear to be answered.
Does anyone know of where I can find all of the seals/insignias in the Touhou fighters? Or are there none? The spritesheets I find only seem to contain a few of the entire set.
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What's being remixed in the Kinema Kan 2 ending/credits?
Also, I'll bring up a question I had before, since it didn't appear to be answered.
Does anyone know of where I can find all of the seals/insignias in the Touhou fighters? Or are there none? The spritesheets I find only seem to contain a few of the entire set.
Here's a few of them. I can't find the rest on Spriters Resource. I'll try other sources later.
Cirno (At the top. Poor crayon drawing of Cirno) (http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhou123/sheet/27016)
Aya (All the way at the bottom. Green leaf seal) (http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhou123/sheet/27028)
Meiling (Rainbow swirl at the top right) (http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhou123/sheet/26939)
Komachi (At the bottom. Golden coin seal) (http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhou123/sheet/27029)
Patchouli (At the bottom right. Purple star seal) (http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhou123/sheet/27027)
Sakuya (Middle right. Red Devil star) (http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhou123/sheet/27030)
Sanae (At the top. Snake and frog emblem) (http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhou123/sheet/27017)
Suwako (At the top. KUNG-FU FROG EMBLEM) (http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhou123/sheet/27018)
And that's all I have. I hope I helped you out. I don't know on which song the ED of 2nd Curtain is based though.
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Say, Mugenkan and the Garden of the Sun seem to be popular locations in fan works. But I'm having a hard time how Mugenkan and it's surrounding area is organized. There's the Garden of the Sun, the mountain, the lake of blood, Mugenkan Mansion and Dream World. I kmow Dream World is linked to Mugenkan mansion, but what about the first three places? I mean, which comes first: The Garden of the Sun, the mountain or the lake?
Mugenkan is surrounded by the lake of blood, which is located at the top of the mountain. But is the Garden of the Sun at the foot of the mountain, on the mountain or on the island in middle of the lake of blood? The garden appears to be ginormous, and overall flat surfaced in most depictions, but wouldn't be extremely inconvenient for Yuuka to constantly fly miles from her house to the garden all the way down? And what if she forgets to bring her garden tools? Then she'd have to fly all the way up again to get those tools, which would be especially annoying for her since she's extremely slow...
And do flowers also grow on the mountain itself, linked to the Garden of the Sun?
From what I figure from this, you'd first have a humongous field of flowers, that goes on into infinity. In the middle you'd have the mountain, which is also covered in flowers. Then comes the Lake of Blood, and in the island in it's middle you have Mugenkan Mansion, which itself leads to the Dream World. But the first few parts are obviously fully in bloom with millions of flowers, yet I always imagine the area around the Lake of Blood as a dry landscape, with rocks and dead trees everywhere, and a reddish mist hanging around. Quite a drastic mood shift, if you ask me. Unless the Lake of Blood is what keeps the Garden alive and is it's main 'water source', which would mean the Lake of Blood would also be surrounded by flowers.
Actually, shouldn't all that blood, you know, start to clot? It's just there, lying in a still lake in the open air, without any form of nutrition or movement. Shouldn't it all quickly hard into a crusty mass on which you could basically walk? (though the thought is pretty disgusting) Unless Yuuka constantly refreshes it with victims/magic, or puts in loads of anti-clogging formulae (I don't know what the official term is. Various blood suckers have the stuff in their saliva), that lake should've hardend loooong ago.
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Mugenkan has not appeared in the Windows Touhou series. So fans are free to think what they want about what could have happened to it, but since ZUN retested everything when he moved it on to Win, chances are that it doesn't even exist in Gensoukyou.
The best description about the Garden of Sun is the fact that it exists near Hakurei shrine, across a river from the bamboo forests that Eientei is located in.
...Or at least on the map that fans agree on (http://f.hatena.ne.jp/usuiou/20090321090950) for now.
*The small yellow splotch of sunflowers on that map is the assumed place of the garden of sun.
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Unless Yuuka constantly refreshes it with victims/magic, or puts in loads of anti-clogging formulae (I don't know what the official term is. Various blood suckers have the stuff in their saliva)
The term you're looking for is anticoagulant.
Alternatively, the lake could be composed primarily of water, with just enough blood to give it an ominous red colour; or, it could just be red and forboding, and not have anything to do with actual blood. Y'never know. :V
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Don't forget, the lake is actually purple in colour! :V
I now raise the theory of imitation blood.
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Was there danmaku before Murasa was sealed away, and is it clear how she died?
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Don't forget, the lake is actually purple in colour! :V
I now raise the theory of imitation blood.
I think that's due to the limited colour pallete.
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I think the "Lake of Blood" is just some kind of "magic construct." It doesn't have to make physical sense.
My theory is that Mugenkan is its own separate realm -- it may or may not be an actual subset of Gensokyo (it probably is), but it doesn't necessarily take up physical "space" in Gensokyo, much the same way Gensokyo doesn't take up space in the Outside World. This is corroborated by the fact that Mugenkan and the Extra Stage are referred to as dream worlds -- which also means that the physics there isn't necessarily as sensical as it is in Gensokyo.
I also can't remember if it was clear exactly when you crossed over to this dream world (could someone with a better memory see if this idea is entirely spurious?), so if the Lake of Blood is in the dream world, there's even less grounds for it to make physical sense.
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Was there danmaku before Murasa was sealed away, and is it clear how she died?
It says Murasa died because her ship sunk... So probably hypothermia, drowning, fish bate... etc. or any combination of them.
Timeline wise we don't exactly know when this was, but some say it should be between; when Kaguya got prosecuted from the moon and when Yuyuko died.
...and there were no spellcard rules back then.
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what do the numbers point by the arrow represent?
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8039/whatarethese.th.png) (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/whatarethese.png/)
First I thought it was just # of attempts but they start to differ a lot if you capture a second time. Also I swear I captured this card on my first try, but when I looked it said 11, so what is it?
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Numbers of pictures shot.
Pictures taken until first successful shot... or it can alternatively mean Number of shots taken on first successful attempt.
Not quite sure since I have yet to play it. :P
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I guess it's # of pictures taken, and # of pictures taken till first capture.
Kinda weird that it counts pictures and not attempts (or both)
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Hmm I think I might know which arrange that is..., let me go on a search frenzy! XD
I'll edit when I find it.
Sorray for souding rude but.. did you find it? >_<
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About that... I only know for now that it was nothing in my archives...
although I lost my archives when my computer blew.
I'm sorry I've delayed you so much and ending up with a sorry, but I will continue searching if you're OK with it.
Also I might be a bit slow in responding for the next week or so since my computer died out on me recently and I need to get a new desktop.
I'm sorry for any inconveniences this might have cause you.
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About that... I only know for now that it was nothing in my archives...
although I lost my archives when my computer blew.
I'm sorry I've delayed you so much and ending up with a sorry, but I will continue searching if you're OK with it.
Also I might be a bit slow in responding for the next week or so since my computer died out on me recently and I need to get a new desktop.
I'm sorry for any inconveniences this might have cause you.
No Prob, I'm happy you've tried ^^
Thank you! =D
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Gentlemen! After extensive biological research and paying extra attention during biology class I have been able to create proof that ZUN made a grave error in Cage in Lunatic Runagate and that it is impossible for Mokou to get sick.
BGM: Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Pursuit ~ Cornered (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RiBCgFwxXI)
Viruses and bacteria enter human bodies to reproduce themselves (and for nourishment in the case of bacteria. Viruses are basically lifeless and don't eat). Bacteria gain nourishment by feeding off of human cells and reproducing inside them, destroying the cells. They eat their way through vital cells, and often emit substances that have negative effects on cells, destroying or damaging them too. Viruses can only reproduce by placing their own DNA in cells, which then combine with the DNA in that cell to form new viruses. The number of viruses in the cell keeps growing and growing until the cell bursts apart. They keep doing that with more and more cells until the human's internal defense system makes the viruses unable to do any more harm (viruses can't be destroyed by natural means, but you can prevent them from infecting more cells by changing the cell's properties, making it unable for viruses to keep producing and forcing them to slowly die out). Because these invaders destroy so many vital cells in such large numbers the infected gains problems to their health. Diseases are caused by cells being destroyed, which lead to negative effects! Heart, liver, skin and other organ diseases and infections are all caused by invaders destroying it slowly bit by bit!
And that is where the immortals come in: Hourai elixir makes one regenerate from any injury, you can't deny that. Cuts, blasts, burns, flesh wounds, no matter what it heals again. If an immortal is completely destroyed to the molecular level they revive with a new body the next day. So all these wounds obviously get healed by cells rapidly regenerating and fixing the wound. The character remains young because they maintain a perfect cellular regeneration, making their bodies unable to deteriorate and grow old. It all revolves around perfect cellular regeneration!
So if a bacteria or virus destroys an immortal's cell, the cell should instantly regenerate/be replaced with a newly made cell. No matter how hard the virus or bacteria tries, they will be unable to destroy enough cells to cause any negative effects on the immortal whatsoever. The regeneration of an immortal is faster than any virus or bacteria. And by the time the viruses and bacteria have finally copied themselves enough to keep up with the regeneration the immortal would have already created an immunity against the invaders, making the invaders die out.
Viruses and bacteria can impossibly make an immortal sick because they could never be able to keep up with their cellular regeneration! And the immortal would have built up an natural immunity to the disease long before the time the viruses and bacteria have enough forces to keep up with the cellular regeneration!
And cancers are also caused by cells being 'broken' and 'damaged', making them run rampant and causing negative effects. Because it's damaged, it gets fixed up due to the workings of hourai elixir and rapid cellular regeneration. Or the immortal could rip out the tumors herself and then let the cellular regeneration fill up the spots again with healthy cells.
And if the immortal suffers from a disease that cancels out defense systems (AIDS, obviously), the immortal could just let their body be blasted to dust, making the viruses 'fall out' of the destroyed body and scattering (and dying. HIV can't survive in open air). The immortal would revive the other day with a new, magically fabricated body, devoid of any HIV viruses and allowing their body to build up a defense system again.
Conclusion: Mokou couldn't possibly have become sick because she has perfect cellular regeneration! If she would show symptoms of disease it would mean the disease in question would make a normal human be visibly devoured alive from the inside by zillions of viruses and bacteria. And that is fucking impossible since the human would have long before that either have made an immunity or have died in a non-violent and non-gory way. It is IMPOSSIBLE for ANY kind of bacteria or virus to be able to produce THAT many brethren in one being in such a short amount of time!
And poison also revolves around destroying cells of vital organs in large numbers! The poison would also be unable to keep up with the sped up cellular regeneration, and the body would eventually make an antidote for itself before any real harm happens! So Eirin can't be immortal if she rushed inside her lab for an antidote and stop the poison! If she was immortal, it wouldn't matter for her! She wouldn't notice a thing of the poison inside her!!!!
So in the end, ZUN either made an error or CiLR never happened.
CASE CLOSED
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... what are you talking about? Mokou doesn't get sick in CiLR.
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... what are you talking about? Mokou doesn't get sick in CiLR.
.......but I thought you all said she got sick there......
In which story did she get sick then? Inaba of the Moon & Inaba of the Earth? Silent Sinner in Blue? You all mentioned a story where Mokou got sick! I tried to prove earlier that ZUN made an error about that, and that Mokou couldn't possibly get sick, but then you all dismissed it. Now I have a stronger argument to prove that ZUN made an error, but which story did Mokou get sick then?
Ugh, never mind then. No matter what story that 'Mokou got sick' part came from, I proved it is absolutely impossible for Mokou to get sick.
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She got sick somewhere...
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OBJECTION!
Your argument may be logically sound and make sense scientifically. However, you have let yourself become trapped by common sense in Gensokyo!
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Does anybody know of, like, Touhou coloring pages?
I really hope they exist. It sounds so fun.
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Coloring pages... like the ones that are sold in bookstores and are meant for you to color in using coloring pencils, markers, pastels...etc.?
If so, there's a tag especially for that on pixiv.
... Or if you're willing to wait, I can create a zip for you after I get a PC that will work properly.
Right now, -as I stated earlier and on other posts- my PC is as good as Cirno's IQ, so I can't do anything at the moment. Give me a couple more days to a week. :P
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Coloring pages... like the ones that are sold in bookstores and are meant for you to color in using coloring pencils, markers, pastels...etc.?
If so, there's a tag especially for that on pixiv.
... Or if you're willing to wait, I can create a zip for you after I get a PC that will work properly.
Right now, -as I stated earlier and on other posts- my PC is as good as Cirno's IQ, so I can't do anything at the moment. Give me a couple more days to a week. :P
There's a tag for it? Ah, that's awesome! But yeah, the whole coloring book kind of thing.
The tag would be just good enough for me.
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"塗ってもいいのよ"
Nothing beats a quick 3-minute search on Pixiv! I see I still haven't lost my touch. There are a few variations that I found but this would be the main one I believe.
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"塗ってもいいのよ"
Nothing beats a quick 3-minute search on Pixiv! I see I still haven't lost my touch. There are a few variations that I found but this would be the main one I believe.
Yaaaaay! Thank you!
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What's the design on Reimu's amulets? Could someone show a picture or something?
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What's the design on Reimu's amulets? Could someone show a picture or something?
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/touhou/images/2/2d/Th09reimu_charge.jpg
http://media.photobucket.com/image/reimu%20amulet/Xenomic/RPG%20Maker%20Stuff/Battle%20Animations/SpreadAmulet.png
A bit small, but I think it'll suit your needs.
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http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/touhou/images/2/2d/Th09reimu_charge.jpg
http://media.photobucket.com/image/reimu%20amulet/Xenomic/RPG%20Maker%20Stuff/Battle%20Animations/SpreadAmulet.png
A bit small, but I think it'll suit your needs.
Alright, thanks.
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Haven't been able to find any info related to this, so I'm asking here:
Is it known if Zun has ever played any of the Touhou fangames? Does he like any in particular? Has he ever hinted at making any new games of genres differen than danmaku and fighting?
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stuffs
Sorry, I actually read CiLR and Mokou said she is cold. As she's having a human body, when the temp goes down she is cold and her joints hurt, but "after a sleep it's fine". So she didn't get sick or anything.
And this too:
OBJECTION!
Your argument may be logically sound and make sense scientifically. However, you have let yourself become trapped by common sense in Gensokyo!
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Sorry, I actually read CiLR and Mokou said she is cold. As she's having a human body, when the temp goes down she is cold and her joints hurt, but "after a sleep it's fine". So she didn't get sick or anything.
And this too:
Thank you for clearing that up. So ZUN didn't make a mistake. That's good to hear. It was all a big misunderstanding on our part.
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Well, it can't be helped. This is a one-man doujin game so don't dig too deep on it. I mean, it's just ZUN's imagination, even if it differs with other documents all we should do is laugh a bit and let it go.
Or else we may have a debate about why Ran didn't eat Chen :o
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Recent events got me to thinking: do we pick our favorite Touhou characters based on our own personalities and skills, and do those favorites make those traits stronger (ex. someone who likes Mystia may develop a greater passion for singing)?
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Because someone like me would end up picking the entire cast, and that's no good!
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Recent events got me to thinking: do we pick our favorite Touhou characters based on our own personalities and skills, and do those favorites make those traits stronger (ex. someone who likes Mystia may develop a greater passion for singing)?
Well, Thundr picked Yuuka because he loves gardening, and his passion for gardening only got stronger from it. I think I might have picked Shinki because I have aspirations for Godhood and I love power, and Shinki is the Goddess of the Demon World, and is thus omnipotent. My thirst for power has been growing stronger lately...
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First time I've heard about that :|
I pick them solely by their appearance and attitude.
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I pick em based on personality, their music, their appearance, and their Danmaku. Their occupation not so much as how it interacts with their personality.
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This is a good place to put it as any.
Tengukami is now TARC's Moderator, so please take any problems/complaints/worries to him. He'll do his part to make TARC a clean, fun place for you all, so please be nice to him or get broomwhacked \o/
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I'm not sure if this had been asked before, but I want to ask something regarding Youmu's swords.
Touhou wiki says that Hakurouken cannot be wielded by normal humans. Is it ever mentioned anywhere about what will happen to humans who try to wield it? Does this apply to Roukanken as well?
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It seems like those swords were made up by ZUN, so no clue. However judging from the wiki, normal human cannot wield Roukanken due to its origin (made by youkai) so it has youkai power and normal human can't touch it. Maybe it will burn you, or make you sick, but it's not a curse. If you're trained enough you can use it properly without any trouble, hopefully.
Hakurouken is a heirloom of the Konpaku, so it can be wielded by none except the Konpaku.
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So they both cannot be wielded by normal humans? BTW, what does it mean to be a "normal" human in Gensokyo? Are the likes of Reimu and Marisa considered to normal humans? If a person is very skilled in using swords but is a normal human, can he or she still wield Roukanken?
You see, I'm working on a fan fiction and I will have to somehow alter the plot if neither of those swords can be wielded by a normal but skilled swordsman.
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I guess it's hard to call somebody like Reimu "normal", but yes both Reimu and Marisa would counted under the "normal" human category considering your question. Sakuya would also probably fit in this category too, but people like Sanae and Youmu would probably differ. (Half-ghost, living god...)
Since we only know some of the properties of the swords, nobody will penalize you for making some other swordsmen hold the sword for a paragraph, or whatnot. (Or so I would hope.)
Plus, I'm quite certain you can find your self a way to get away with it given that so many people know so little about the swords.
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It's all right. I've done some alterations to the plot already since I want to stay as close as possible to known information, but thanks for the reply anyway!
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Normal human is people who doesn't know how to fight, use magic, shoot bullets and exterminate youkai.
Ex: you and me.
Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Sanae are NOT normal human.
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I think "full-blooded human." Includes Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, probably Mokou, possibly Eirin and Kaguya ...
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Eirin and Kaguya are Lunarians, not Earthlings.
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Yes, but I'm pretty sure they're still "human." The question of where they fall in the "humans vs youkai" situation is brought up in IN's Border Team ending, and in SSiB and CiLR, the Watatsukis pretty much don't shut up about how much more awesome they are than Earth humans. They just consider themselves to be more "pure".
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I think "full-blooded human." Includes Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, probably Mokou, possibly Eirin and Kaguya ...
I think being immortal makes you quite super-human, actually. And if Lunarians aren't classified as humans then Immortals shouldn't be classified as humans either. Mokou could easily wield the blades. Also, Reimu has holy powers backing her up, and she could use the divine power of Susano-O to force the blades to work for her or something like that. I can only imagine Marisa and Sakuya being unable to wield the blades.
Yes, but I'm pretty sure they're still "human." The question of where they fall in the "humans vs youkai" situation is brought up in IN's Border Team ending, and in SSiB and CiLR, the Watatsukis pretty much don't shut up about how much more awesome they are than Earth humans. They just consider themselves to be more "pure".
I think comparing humans and Lunarians is like comparing crocodiles and alligators. Sure, they look like each other, but they're still different. I'm with Sabino on this one: normal, mortal, weak, non-special humans could never wield the blades. However anything greater than human can wield the blades. Youmu is half human and she can wield the blades. This shows you don't nee to be that much superior to humanity to use the swords. Immortals, Lunarians and Demi-Gods look superior enough to be accepted by the swords. I mean, they are superior to Youmu.
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Well, not like they will ever care to try to wield that sword anyway.
And I can't unsee your Shinki Okashii >_< I wonder if she goes to Gensokyo sometimes to check on her beloved Alice?
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Normal human is people who doesn't know how to fight, use magic, shoot bullets and exterminate youkai.
Ex: you and me.
Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Sanae are NOT normal human.
Meh, I was only evaluating "normal" considering the standards of the question (Even if Marisa, Sakuya, Reimu,...etc. were above natural that makes little difference considering this question).... But whatever, the sword is supernatural and most of the people we know in Gensoukyou is supernatural.
Oh, and one more possibility we forgot to think about.
Since they say that swords crafted by master sword-smiths have a soul of their own, maybe Youmu's sword may have a will of its own?
...just a possibility.
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I think comparing humans and Lunarians is like comparing crocodiles and alligators. Sure, they look like each other, but they're still different.
I'm not saying they're not different. I'm talking about the fact that they are ultimately labelled as "half-human, half-youkai" in IN's ending because they don't know what else to call them, and CiLR (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate:_Chapter_3) says they're originally from Earth.
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Not to mention that Mokou. Kaguya and (possibly) Eirin became immortal after drinking the Hourai Elixir.
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I'm not saying they're not different. I'm talking about the fact that they are ultimately labelled as "half-human, half-youkai" in IN's ending because they don't know what else to call them, and CiLR (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate:_Chapter_3) says they're originally from Earth.
Well, if they are 'half human, half youkai' like Youmu shouldn't they be able to use the swords? Phantoms/ghosts are also considered a type of youkai. If a 'half human/half youkai' like Youmu can wield the swords, then 'half human/half youkai' like the Lunarians and Immortals should be able to use it too.
Not to mention that Mokou. Kaguya and (possibly) Eirin became immortal after drinking the Hourai Elixir.
I see becoming Immortal (even through Hourai Elixir) is like a next step in evolution. Same goes for Lunarians. They are more evolved than humans. You know that animals can eventually be unable to mate with each other once they start to grow too different from each other. Once that happens they aren't the same species anymore. A mouse species that consist of one colony can be split in two by a river that suddenly forms in between the colony. Each side keeps living on, doing their thing in slightly different environments. After 50 years or so the river will have dried up and the two mouse colonies can get together again. However, both mouse colonies, due to different environments, have grown to be greatly different from each other (like one side has obtained long snouts while the other side have way bigger bodies). They have grown so vastly different that they cannot mate anymore, turning them into two separate species of mouse. Humans and Lunarians can be compared to this.
The Lunarians have become so different from humans that you cannot possibly classify them as humans anymore. They are more youkai than anything. Thus, they could use weaponry that cannot be wielded by humans, since they aren't the same species anymore anyway. Hourai Elixir can be described as a quick short cut to semi-Godhood. They are more youkai/god than human. In fact, Mokou attained many youkai qualities when she consumed the elixir: her phoenix traits. The Hourai Elixir turned her part phoenix youkai, giving her the power over blazing fires. She is also FAR more physically powerful than normal humans. That sounds like 'youkai' to me in my book. Mokou is different enough to be able to use the swords.
Mokou is actually more youkai than Youmu! Youmu relies on her phantom half and swords: she doesn't have any innate powers like Mokou! Youmu's ability: swordsmanship and concentration. ANY human can learn that with enough discipline, even outsiders. Mokou's ability: CONTROL THE FREAKING PYRES OF HELL! No normal human can ever hope to learn that without the help of magic, and even then they may never be able to use it as efficiently as Mokou! So, who is more youkai? Youmu or Mokou? I think the answer is obvious.
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We know that Eirin is Immortal from the Scarlet Devil's team dialog with her tho
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Um, I was just arguing that they were human on some level, not that they couldn't use the swords. :o
Hooray, bickering at cross-purposes like the nerds we are. ;)
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Power level thread... NOT!
I was wondering if the miko know martial arts, such as Ji-jutsu? Not sure about Sanae but Reimu should have known some to protect herself in cases she can't use danmaku. Meiling on the other hand, can use Chinese martial arts but her style is still vague to me. Looks like North Shaolin from her moves in UNL, but girls using Shaolin isn't right.
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Power level thread... NOT!
I was wondering if the miko know martial arts, such as Ji-jutsu? Not sure about Sanae but Reimu should have known some to protect herself in cases she can't use danmaku. Meiling on the other hand, can use Chinese martial arts but her style is still vague to me. Looks like North Shaolin from her moves in UNL, but girls using Shaolin isn't right.
Who said anything about power levels? Just pointing out that Mokou could easily use the swords and isn't human.
And Meiling is a tomboy anyway, so what does it matter?
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1. It was a joke
2. Tomboy is some kind of attitude/behaviour, it has nothing to do with gender.
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What's your point? If she has the attitude and motivation she can just go and learn Shaolin, even if she's a girl. Who would care in Gensokyo?
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Uhm, girls don't practise Shaolin, not only because it's the martial art or monks, but also because the Chi that Shaolin uses can't be had by girls.
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Uhm, girls don't practise Shaolin, not only because it's the martial art or monks, but also because the Chi that Shaolin uses can't be had by girls.
I thought all the chi was the same. ??? Just energy hidden within a person, that can be applied in several kinds of fighting styles, not a specific one. At least you still have that 'white chi' and black chi' stuff, but I didn't know martial arts required specific kinds of chi.
And even then, there exists no real world martial arts which allows you to shoot rainbow fireballs. I don't really see what chi has to do with real-life martial arts. What you just described just sounds like ancient sexism to me. Meiling could have just disguised herself as a boy or take lessons from someone who isn't biased about gender to learn it. In Gensokyo, where females call the shots, I think everything would be devoid of such sexism rules. And whose to say Meiling didn't just invent her own technique? Like I said, thee is no real life martial arts that involves shooting rainbow lasers out of your finger tips.
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:wikipedia:
In Gensokyo, chi exists. And thus, we can assume that some amount of folklore, mythology, and beliefs can be applied literally to things in Gensokyo. So in a sense it really is 'weird' to have a female knowing Shaolin martial arts and wielding chi, just like it'd be weird if there was suddenly a Touhou character that was a Roman Catholic bishop.
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It's not "black and white chi", but "yin and yang". Yin chi is the internal force that possessed much by girls and vice-versa. You can say Yin is a "cold" chi while Yang is a "hot" chi. It very different and if one try to train both will result in insanity or death.
It's an ancient martial art concept from China. There were more than 2000 styles/clans of kungfu and Shaolin was only one of them (the most popular, yes). Meiling can't even dress as a boy to learn Shaolin kungfu, that's just disrespectful and the style is not for her.
Of course, I won't say anything about real life martial arts here, but fictional martial arts that were accepted. There are many novels you can read about them, the origin of Shaolin, Wudang, Eimi, Group of Beggars... they can shoot chi and do even more incredible things than danmaku.
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Of course, I won't say anything about real life martial arts here, but fictional martial arts that were accepted. There are many novels you can read about them, the origin of Shaolin, Wudang, Eimi, Group of Beggars... they can shoot chi and do even more incredible things than danmaku.
Women were just as competent at it, if not moreso than men. If we apply that sort of freeform to what sort of fighting the people of Gensokyo can do, all of them have some sort of basic martial arts training.
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Is there some sort of meme about Satori and cookies? This video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9872811) and a similar, sort-of-NSFW one about Satori uploaded by the same person seem to suggest so, although I'm definitely missing out on context because I don't understand Japanese. I checked the wiki and found nothing about it.
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I see becoming Immortal (even through Hourai Elixir) is like a next step in evolution. Same goes for Lunarians. They are more evolved than humans.
I realize I'm late to respond to this, but this theory here, while neat, doesn't really have much basis in anything canonically. Nowhere is it written that the Hourai Elixir transforms someone into a whole other species. It has a permanent physiological and spiritual effect, but this isn't the same as evolution. A tattoo is also a permanent physiological change to my body, but I'm still human. The elixir is a medicine with tremendous powers, but you are not transformed into some separate species, as evidenced by the fact that those who have drank it are still classified as human or Lunarian (and Lunarians are humans).
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So, I've been wondering if there is some force above the Tengu. I was reading the Touhou wikia and I read something about a Head Tengu on Momoiji's page, but there was no link to a page for this Head Tengu.
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So, I've been wondering if there is some force above the Tengu. I was reading the Touhou wikia and I read something about a Head Tengu on Momoiji's page, but there was no link to a page for this Head Tengu.
The Head Tengu's name is Lord Tenma. As of yet he is still an pretty enigmatic figure, whose goals, tasks and personality are still a mystery. What we can say is that he is large and in charge at Tengu Village.
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So, I've been wondering if there is some force above the Tengu. I was reading the Touhou wikia and I read something about a Head Tengu on Momoiji's page, but there was no link to a page for this Head Tengu.
I think you mean Lord Tenma. Below is an artist's rendering of said Lord Tenma:
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/313/tenma.png)
.... ah, joking aside, Lord Tenma is indeed the boss of the tengu on Youkai Mountain. There's more on the hierarchy of the mountain tengu here (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Tengu), and Aya's MoF profile (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Aya_Shameimaru) says some stuff about him, but we don't know much apart from "Lord Tenma is the boss of the tengu".
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What joking?
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Yeah that picture is canon guys. Make no mistake.
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I was almost certain that he looked like this:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/257k8ia.jpg)
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I was almost certain that he looked like this:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/257k8ia.jpg)
That's a kappa, dude.
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Lord Tenma is still a tengu, so you can't say he is the force that "above the tengu". It's stated that tengu once was the subordinate of the oni, and Aya is afraid of Suika/Yuugi so you can say Oni is above the tengu. However, since there is only 2 oni in Gensokyo atm, and both of them don't give a damn about the surrounding so I'm quite sure the Tengu village is having a peaceful, independent life.
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That's a kappa, dude.
For the record, pfftsnerk
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Is there some sort of meme about Satori and cookies? This video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9872811) and a similar, sort-of-NSFW one about Satori uploaded by the same person seem to suggest so, although I'm definitely missing out on context because I don't understand Japanese. I checked the wiki and found nothing about it.
Nah, its just that person, and by the way, it's melon bread (yes the same one that fire-eyed-loli-tsundere likes) in that video. ...This person seems like he likes to use melon breads...
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Nah, its just that person, and by the way, it's melon bread (yes the same one that fire-eyed-loli-tsundere likes) in that video. ...This person seems like he likes to use melon breads...
Ah, I see. I thought Satori said "cookie" at about 1:29 in the Koishi video, but as I said, no comprendo japon?s. It does look more like bread than a cookie, now that I think about it.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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Here's another question:
Kaguya and Mokou are both absolutely immortal. All wounds heal, no disease ails them, they will never die of age, and if they are completely destroyed they revive in a completely new body. They could survive far past the end of the universe. Nothing can apparently kill them. Not even fiddling with time can erase them, for they are eternal.
However, what would happen if they got absorbed by another being? Completely devoured and made part of the assailant. Imagine what would happen if a Cell-loli appeared in Gensokyo and decided to gobble them up, greatly increasing her powers and making her immortal? How can Kaguya and Mokou revive if they are made a piece of something else? Their souls are basically trapped inside the creature. Sure, they 'live on' inside it, but unless they are released from the creature I don't think they can revive in a new body. They'll be stuck inside the creature until the beast is slain, which is going to be hard if that creature copied their immortality. What do you think? Do you think they can escape from this situation? Or may this be the only way to actually 'kill' an immortal?
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I think it wouldn't be able to successfully absorb them -- they'd keep "regenerating" back to their original forms, possibly catastrophically for the absorber.
See, my interpretation of the Hourai Elixir is that it prevents change -- i.e. ordinary processes like the circulatory system and digestive system work fine, but something like old age, pregnancy, death -- that's too big a change. So if something tried to absorb them and take over their bodies, it wouldn't work, and the Elixir would treat it like an injury.
Hmm. The mad scientist in me is now wondering what would happen if someone took the elixir while they were in the process of getting absorbed, but I'm mentally backing away because this is turning into nightmare fuel ... um, over to you, Erebus!
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How would someone use the Power to Manipulate eternity? I've been thinking about this all day and I can't come up with a single way >_<;
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How would someone use the Power to Manipulate eternity? I've been thinking about this all day and I can't come up with a single way >_<;
To make your milk never be able to transpire! :V
And I guess to make curses/changes work forever and make Hourai Elixir I guess....
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How would someone use the Power to Manipulate eternity? I've been thinking about this all day and I can't come up with a single way >_<;
Here's the quote directly from Perfect Memento in Strict Sense.
She possesses the ability to manipulate the eternal and the instantaneous.
As eternity refers to a world with no history, it is also a world where change is eternally unknown.
No matter how much you may try to bring about change in such a world, it is futile in a world where time has essentially stopped.
One can think of it thus: even the fact that Eientei suddenly appeared in human history and began to experience the passage of time was because she reversed the effects of her eternity magic.
Under the effects of that magic, Eientei would probably have never appeared in the human world, but would have always remained hidden in the Bamboo Forest of the Lost.
However, a perpetual world denies any sort of change.
She may have lived for a very long time without having changed at all.
So basically, it's like Muffin's interpretation of the Hourai Elixir: it prevents change.
Also here's the info on Kaguya's other ability, manipulation of the instantaneous.
Her other ability regarding the ephemeral is complementary to her manipulation of eternity, and allows control over extremely short time durations.
It allows her to act in periods of time so short as to be imperceptible to human beings.
Since these periods are just aggregates of moments in time, they pass normally, but they are far too small to be perceived by normal people.
It's said she can manipulate parallel timelines by using these moments.
As both of these abilities allow the manipulation of time, they far surpass what normal humans are capable of.
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No Prob, I'm happy you've tried ^^
Thank you! =D
Hey, dunno if you're still around searching for it but I think I found the song you were searching for.
Moonlight Windia by the circle Riverside. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10265853)
Sorry this had to come about a month after from the last time you mentioned it.
If its not the one that you were searching for... I'm sorry. DX
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A little question.
Are Yukari and Kanako considered selfish and chaotic ?
<Nobu> : Split off from misc. questions thread.
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Yukari
It depends up to a degree on what selfish is, but in Yukari's case she's chaotic and selfish to an extent.
Chaos:
...Well, what less of an chaos will you get when you think about an youkai who pulls out traffic signs and trains from her gaps, but also the fact that
what she does catches others completely off guard.
Although in a sense you can argue this chaos as being a part of a genius which she is.
Selfishness:
Yukari keeps open the border to the netherworld ever since Perfect Cherry Blossom and you can argue that to be a selfish action, or maybe we don't know her true intentions of those actions.
Even though we get a selfish image of her from actions like these Yukari will always put her self after an incident concerning Gensoukyou, like what happened when the Watatsuki sisters decided to come along.
Kanako
For Kanako, we don't know enough of her to say things for certain but from her actions so far...
Chaotic?:
She may have suddenly appeared in Gensoukyou, taken over a mountain, given a certain stupid crow the power to fuse, and sent her shrine maiden to beat up and free a ancient monk, but all of those actions had purposes. Well, maybe giving the ultimate form of energy to an idiot may have been a bit unexpected, but than again same thing as Yukari. Maybe we don't understand to the full extent of what they have planned for the future.
Thus youcan argue Kanako as a bit chaotic, but not as much as Yukari.
Selfish?:
Bringing her shrine over to Gensoukyou is said to have been for the her as well as for the good of Sanae, and the bringing of nuclear fusion was for the prosperity of the mountain by the technologies that the Kapaa would make from that (Although there are text that we sort of see a technology freak part of her). So in terms of being selfish, she isn't all that selfish if you look at it.
In doujin and second-hand art and all that...:
Yukari would often be portrayed as selfish grann-*SUKIMA*
Er... I mean, a selfish beautiful lady giving Ran and Reimu lots of troubles. Also chaotic as of the ideas that she thinks up.
Kanako is often portrayed as eccentric sort of ideas and actions and follow her own sold codes of rules honers and whatnot.
But this is non official stuff so you can catch this statement wrong once in a while.
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A little question.
Are Yukari and Kanako considered selfish and chaotic ?
Basically what Sabimno said, but I do have to mention that Kanako IS pretty selfish. She wants to have all the faith of Gensokyo for herself, going so far as trying to overthrow the Shrine that is keeping up the border. Without the Hakurei Shrine Gensokyo may collapse. If Kanako wants the faith of the entirety of Gensokyo EVEN if it may cause the end of Gensokyo she's pretty much the epitome of selfishness. You can also see the actions and 'good deeds' she's done up till now as shameless self-promotion and attempts to gather even more faith. So she might actually be the one of the most selfish beings in Gensokyo.
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To be fair, she might not have been fully aware of what the Hakurei Shrine was doing for Gensokyo's continued existence. I'm given to understand that it's really hard for people to find out that Gensokyo exists (Maribel excepted, of course), much less any details about it beyond "there's a shrine there." Good point, though.
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Plus the added point that Kanako's profile states she wants her worshippers to celebrate and have a good time. Which isn't entirely selfish.
"Most ____ in Gensokyo" is always going to be a contentious claim, and with good reason.
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Plus the added point that Kanako's profile states she wants her worshippers to celebrate and have a good time. Which isn't entirely selfish.
"Most ____ in Gensokyo" is always going to be a contentious claim, and with good reason.
But if they have have a good time thanks to Kanako they'll praise her EVEN MORE and she'll get EVEN MORE fate. It's all part her plan.
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Can't see how that's a bad thing. If someone opened up a giant house party and was like, "Yo, you can party your ass off here so long as you give me mad props", I don't think that "selfish" is the first word that would spring to mind about that person.
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Shall I bring up the fact that everything you do, no matter how selfless it seems, is ultimately motivated by the desire to make oneself feel good and that the only difference is to what degree you get enjoyment from the well-being of others?
No?
Well, too late.
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Shall I bring up the fact that everything you do, no matter how selfless it seems, is ultimately motivated by the desire to make oneself feel good and that the only difference is to what degree you get enjoyment from the well-being of others?
No?
Well, too late.
Only difference is that most of us don't get vastly more powerful from 'feeling good'. Who knows what Kanako will do when she obtains enough faith. You guys can believe what you want of Kanako. To me she'll always be a diabolical mastermind.
Kanako doesn't spring me as a 'nice' person. Atleast, she won't be nice as long as she doesn't get anything back from it. Her entire behavior gives off that 'I don't care about you, but about your power' vibe, IMHO. She doesn't seem the person who let's people have fun without ulterior motives, seeming more like a surly, boring lady who doesn't give a crap about that. The only reason why she would do things that aren't her style is if she gets faith from it. Remember, she conquered an entire kingdom just for more faith. I don't think she gave a shit about anyone who lived there. The nuclear energy scheme looked more like self-promotion than an act of kindness, and she probably wanted Suwako and Sanae to shut up about there being no electricity for their computer and gaming consoles. She doesn't strike me nice, just surly and perpetually annoyed. Whenever she isn't annoyed she's smug. All in all, she doesn't look like a selfless Samaritan at all.
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In other words, you feel Kanako is a bitch, but don't really have anything you can point to in that regard other than "she strikes me as such".
I refer again to her profile, which states that as people were relying more on science than religion, she was losing faith, and was in danger of losing her existence, so she went to Gensokyo to gather faith. So there's the matter of her existence being on the line.
Yes, she caused incidents. So what dude? What major boss in Gensokyo hasn't and doesn't? Nothing sets her above the bar as being "the most selfish" in Gensokyo when compared to other powerful beings.
In fact, nowhere in her profile does it say what you suggested; that she doesn't give a shit about anyone. In fact, it says this:
Actually, to play together was what gods wished for. Festivals were venues for humans and gods to play together. By forgetting about everyday life and coming together to play, gods and humans gained the feeling of solidarity within a community. Even if the humans were exchanged for youkai, it was the same.
This was exactly the kind of faith Kanako was wishing for.
Again, this doesn't sound like the diabolical megabitch you're trying to make her out to be.
You're welcome to go on believing what you like about her, of course. Don't let facts get in your way.
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I rather refer to her as 'mastermind' than 'bitch'. That she's selfish and a schemer doesn't mean I don't like her. In fact, I tend to like the villainous, plotting and power hungry types. Reminds me of myself.
Fine, just throwing out there that if I got infinitely more powerful due to good rep I'd go throw parties every day. I think it is idiotic if someone didn't exploit that. Suwako is too laid back to care about more power (she was fine with disappearing actually), but Kanako's acts lean more towards this motive. And in most depictions I've seen Kanako looks pretty anti-social. Maybe she wants to have fun, but just doesn't know how to hang out with others, or her possible disappearance stands in her way. Anyway, I don't know why she acts so smug and 'better-than-you' in her Marisa scenario pre-battle texts if she's such a people's person. But fine, I'll bother you no longer.
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/question
Moving on, what's the generally accepted reason why ZUN's art quality and style varies so much from game to game? The art is actually done by multiple people, various states of drunkness/experimentation, or what?
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That's a neat question. I noticed this myself, and always chalked it up to the fact that he's not an artist first and foremost, so his style changes with time.
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All I know about several artists is that Alphes did the endings on PoFV.
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Wow too many questions after easter o_O I'll give my opinion then...
1. Kaguya & Mokou being absorbed: the immortality they have is all about soul, as long as their souls exist the bodies will regenerate. Which means, after they got consumed, they can either keep regenerating inside the consumer's body, until that guy/girl explodes. Or they can go out by their soul (if there is no restriction from the consumer) and regenerate there.
2. Yukari & Kanako selfishness: well I dunno, one is the highest class youkai in Gensokyo, and one is the goddess who almost died. Kanako had to gather faith as much as possible, not only for her but for Suwako and Sanae as well. And about "they won't do anything unless it benefits", heh, who would, not to mention the faith is Kanako's source of existence? And I'll repeat myself... Kanako is a god damn goddess, she has her right to act mighty.
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Wow too many questions after easter o_O I'll give my opinion then...
1. Kaguya & Mokou being absorbed: the immortality they have is all about soul, as long as their souls exist the bodies will regenerate. Which means, after they got consumed, they can either keep regenerating inside the consumer's body, until that guy/girl explodes. Or they can go out by their soul (if there is no restriction from the consumer) and regenerate there.
2. Yukari & Kanako selfishness: well I dunno, one is the highest class youkai in Gensokyo, and one is the goddess who almost died. Kanako had to gather faith as much as possible, not only for her but for Suwako and Sanae as well. And about "they won't do anything unless it benefits", heh, who would, not to mention the faith is Kanako's source of existence? And I'll repeat myself... Kanako is a god damn goddess, she has her right to act mighty.
1. So the only real way to kill an immortal is by destroying/stealing their soul. Guess we need the Soul Edge if Mokou or Kaguya finally go batshit. But what if the absorber is Godzilla sized? Like some world devouring monster? It wouldn't be able to explode then. Though Kaguya and Mokou could either regenerate outside their body (assuming they aren't locked inside it) or regenerate inside it and start messing up the beast's internal systems. Using a giant heart as boxing bag, anyone?
Although, Cell from DBZ could absorb android 17 and 18 by devouring their entire bodies, and they apparently 'shrunk' to fit in his body. When Cell got punched in the gut he barfed Android 18 up without her even having a scratch on her. If the absorber possessed this same technique, he/she could keep Kaguya and Mokou in stasis inside his/her body without him/her splattering apart. At least, they'll stay inside until the absorber gets punched in the gut with the force of a super sonic jet.
2. Well, Kanako isn't even that mighty of a Goddess compared to other Gensokyo residents. All the other Goddesses are a lot more humble.
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The Head Tengu's name is Lord Tenma. As of yet he is still an pretty enigmatic figure, whose goals, tasks and personality are still a mystery. What we can say is that he is large and in charge at Tengu Village.
I forgot where, but I'm pretty sure there was one fangame he appeared in... But eh. >.>
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All the other Goddesses are a lot more humble.
:getdown:
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Only difference is that most of us don't get vastly more powerful from 'feeling good'.
1. Kanako doesn't grow stronger when she feels good, at least not any more than anyone else; she feels good when she grows in power, which is perfectly natural I might add.
2. Apparently you didn't understand what I said. Everybody will always tend to do what makes them feel better, no matter whether that is giving food to homeless people or punching puppies. A "selfish" person is merely one who doesn't get enjoyment out of making other people feel good. A "bad" person is one who is willing to make other people feel bad as long as they feel better. An "evil" person is one who gets enjoyment directly from making other people feel bad.
Just because Kanako does stuff from which she benefits that doesn't make her a bad person. Her desire to not fade out of existence is more than understandable, don't you think? Growing more powerful, ditto. Pretty much every politician and country, businessman and company acts the same way. That her competition is the force that holds Gensokyo together is not something she is likely to know, at least not during the events of MoF when she was still new.
You could say that Kanako is the goddess of capitalism. :V
You guys can believe what you want of Kanako. To me she'll always be a diabolical mastermind.
Well, you can believe what you want, too. It's not like it matters. :derp:
...and she probably wanted Suwako and Sanae to shut up about there being no electricity for their computer and gaming consoles.
Now you're just being silly.
2. Well, Kanako isn't even that mighty of a Goddess compared to other Gensokyo residents. All the other Goddesses are a lot more humble.
Uh, what? Suwako I'll give you, but Shinki definitely isn't acting humble, Hina, Shizuha and Minoriko are much weaker than Kanako, and even then they are not what I'd call humble.
Also, not wanting to start a power level discussion, I will merely say that there is no reason to believe that Kanako is considerably weaker than other Stage 6/Ex bosses, many of which were also pretty smug.
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Alright, the Goddess of Capitalism part made me chuckle quite a bit. But isn't the want of gaining power considered a bad thing and being glad with who you are good?
The console thing was indeed a joke :V (Though, the Moriyas DID come from the outside world. You'd never know~)
And I make a clear distinction between Shinki and the other Gods. The Gods depicted in Mountain of Faith are what I call 'Faith Gods', who need to rely on faith to exist and grow. From what I've seen they are pretty weak for the title of God, the 'miracles' they produce not being that spectacular at all. When I think 'God' I think reality warping being, which the MoF Gods are defiantly not. I think 'nature spirit' would be a more correct term. Shinki is what I call an 'Infinite Being', a 'True' God. One that can create intelligent life and entire worlds, is absolutely immortal, doesn't need faith and for whom the fabric of reality is but a plaything. Dragon God is also an Infinite Being, for he may or may not be THE God, and is depicted as the mightiest force in the setting as of yet. Shinki is truly omnipotent. The MoF Gods are not. Shinki has all right to be proud of herself. The MoF Gods hardly qualify for the title of God, and should know their place more. Hina is a good example of how Faith Gods SHOULD act in the presence of the Gensokyo Top and the 'True' Gods: humble, nice and defiantly not gloating.
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Hm. I think someone's bias is showing. I thought I noticed some frogs leaping away from your post.
EDIT: Nobu, I see you in this thread. Resist the urge, man. Resist it.
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All I know about several artists is that Alphes did the endings on PoFV.
I think that's the only exception.
My opinion is that ZUN does not have a definit "style" yet, his drawing skill is still evolving (for the better?), that should be why his style change from game to game.
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Hm. I think someone's bias is showing. I thought I noticed some frogs leaping away from your post.
EDIT: Nobu, I see you in this thread. Resist the urge, man. Resist it.
The truth is hurting the frogs so much that they flee from my statement.
(According to Japanese mythology, Gods are supposed to be superior to youkai. However, Yuuka and Yukari, both youkai, are commonly accepted to be stronger than the bulk of the cast, including Kanako and Suwako. If a youkai can best these 'Gods', I think they hardly deserve the title of 'God'. Kanako and Suwako should come back when they can create their own world. THEN we'll talk.)
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Creating a spereate thread while I am typing? You got me confused. Anyways...
Alright, the Goddess of Capitalism part made me chuckle quite a bit. But isn't the want of gaining power considered a bad thing and being glad with who you are good?
This is a question of your philosophical point of view. Many religions tell you that. Most larger human societies function differently, however...
And I make a clear distinction between Shinki and the other Gods. The Gods depicted in Mountain of Faith are what I call 'Faith Gods', who need to rely on faith to exist and grow. From what I've seen they are pretty weak for the title of God, the 'miracles' they produce not being that spectacular at all. When I think 'God' I think reality warping being, which the MoF Gods are defiantly not. I think 'nature spirit' would be a more correct term. Shinki is what I call an 'Infinite Being', a 'True' God. One that can create intelligent life and entire worlds, is absolutely immortal, doesn't need faith and for whom the fabric of reality is but a plaything. Dragon God is also an Infinite Being, for he may or may not be THE God, and is depicted as the mightiest force in the setting as of yet. Shinki is truly omnipotent. The MoF Gods are not. Shinki has all right to be proud of herself. The MoF Gods hardly qualify for the title of God, and should know their place more. Hina is a good example of how Faith Gods SHOULD act in the presence of the Gensokyo Top and the 'True' Gods: humble, nice and defiantly not gloating.
While Shinki's godhood seems to be different from that of the windows godesses, I disagree on most other parts.
I'll admit I don't know much about Shinto, but I know that there is a literal myriad of gods, highly varying in their levels of power. Most are some small local deities ore deities with very specific powers, like the Aki sisters. "Nature Spirits" is actually a pretty good western equivalent for these lower gods. Suwako and Kanako, by contrast, where patron godesses of whole contries and have powers that have very broad applications, so they are obviously quite powerful.
Also, as long as I can't read a translated ending that would convince me otherwise, I'll veto any claim of Shinki's omnipotence by stating that she got beat up by little, human girl. And no, I highly doubt that she got beat up on purpose to further some large, divine scheme.
Also also, there is more than one dragon according to Akyu.
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Who the hell moved the thread back while I was typing?! Now I have to start over again!
<Tengukami> I did. Sorry 'bout that, but it had to be done. Don't mind the sawdust.
Creating a spereate thread while I am typing? You got me confused. Anyways...
This is a question of your philosophical point of view. Many religions tell you that. Most larger human societies function differently, however...
While Shinki's godhood seems to be different from that of the windows godesses, I disagree on most other parts.
I'll admit I don't know much about Shinto, but I know that there is a literal myriad of gods, highly varying in their levels of power. Most are some small local deities ore deities with very specific powers, like the Aki sisters. "Nature Spirits" is actually a pretty good western equivalent for these lower gods. Suwako and Kanako, by contrast, where patron godesses of whole contries and have powers that have very broad applications, so they are obviously quite powerful.
Also, as long as I can't read a translated ending that would convince me otherwise, I'll veto any claim of Shinki's omnipotence by stating that she got beat up by little, human girl. And no, I highly doubt that she got beat up on purpose to further some large, divine scheme.
Also also, there is more than one dragon according to Akyu.
Regarding the dragon: No. Read the article again.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Dragon
Does Akyu mention 'dragons', or 'dragon'? 'They' or 'he'? Plural, or singular?
Singular.
There might be lizard youkai that look like dragons, but Akyu mentions in the SPECIES page of dragons only ONE dragon. And this isn't a character specific page. It is the species page, and even then she only talks about one dragon. Thus, there is only one real Dragon.
Regarding Shinki: How the do you know so for sure?
Yuuka didn't fight for real either, since Yuuka could just walk up to Reimu and kick the ever loving crap out of her. Or make her head explode by collapsing the dimension around it (Yuuka has her own dimension in her mansion and she is clearly capable of controlling it, judging from the psychedelic changes in the background during the fight). If Yuuka didn't fought for real, why should Shinki? Mima and Yumemi fought for real, but they are just piss weak. Shinki can create entire worlds and dimensions, create intelligent life, manipulate reality (her background went even more psychedelic than Yuuka's) and she can destroy an entire world. UNINTENTIONALLY. Who else can do that in the cast, huh? No one except Dragon God. Even Yukari can't create a living world. She has a hard time replicating the Hakurei Border! (see the Touhou Wiki entry regarding the Hakurei Border) And Shinki just busted through the dimension with ease to let the demons in. And who says safe, fair competition magic battles didn't exist back then? Sure, the SPELLCARD rules didn't exist then, which uses, well, CARDS. Who says a former maiden/ruling youkai didn't establish a certain degree of safe fighting earlier (except it wasn't that accessible for normal humans), just without cards? And NO ONE has ever died in the PC-98 games, despite all the murderous creatures there. And Reimu has already beaten the Queen of Hell and the Angel of Death back then. WITH A BALL. Clearly there were restricting rules back then too. AS if God would make the Angel of Death piss weak. Yeah right. And time outs were also possible in the early games. WHY would these all-powerful beings quit themselves, even if they have enough health left?! Even BYAKUREN, who was sealed in Makai for THOUSANDS OF YEARS knew of the spellcard system. Clearly rules were established then. I doubt they have a newspaper in Hokai. Clearly the basics were already made and a few rules were established.
After all, if Shinki can make her world warp and turn like that during the battle she could have easily made Reimu's head explode/let the dimension compress and crush Reimu. She was clearly holding back. She may not want to kill a child. Maybe she was doing it for the lulz like Yuuka. Maybe she DOES have a scheme. Or, like I just described, rules DO apply. She clearly wasn't fighting for real. Maybe a part of the rules were just established? The rules were made AROUND MS and EoSD by Yukari and a mysterious vampire (probably Remilia. See the Maribel=Yukari thread), and Reimu wasn't there to make the rules (also explained in the Maribel=Yukari thread). A few rules might have already been established, yet discussions still raged over the rest (the card part), explaining why cards weren't in MS.
In short: Shinki is (nigh-)omnipotent, could have bested Reimu easily, something held her back and she's way stronger than the bulk of the cast. 'Nuff said.
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ZUN's graphical style changes because he's just trying new things. There's nothing really strange about that, especially considering that he hasn't been an artist for too long.
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CALM DOWN, NOBU!
*cough* Anyway, my own personal fanwank about Shinki is that 1. an Infinite Being is technically not a god, since the gods require Faith of some sort and Shinki does not (this last bit I admit is my own invention, but "not mentioned by canon" is not the same thing as "contradicted by canon"), and 2. what Reimu/Marisa/Yuka/Mima fought was just an avatar Shinki created for the purpose of dealing with mortals; I guess she reasoned that if someone was angry enough to fight her, it was usually for a reason, so if nothing else they'd get the catharsis of having fought her. She wasn't stupid, so her avatar was pretty damn powerful, but this was basically a the same principle as the Spell Card system which Reimu created, except for pretty much exactly the opposite reason ...
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ahahahaha, take it easy people, its only something that happens in a world where vampires with depleted charisma and stupid birds sending up nuclear flares. Yes, we all like that world but no reason to go punching each others in the groins for it. :derp:
/question
Moving on, what's the generally accepted reason why ZUN's art quality and style varies so much from game to game? The art is actually done by multiple people, various states of drunkness/experimentation, or what?
ZUN is a type of Yokai that's actually formed from a colony of alcohol craving Yokai. Each has its own roles such as programming, buying alcohol, working, buying alcohol, drawing and buying alcohol. Its just that the drawing Yokais have a very short lifespan.
/joke
Well, we know ZUN was able to draw quite well from the PC98 days, but he tended not to put emphasis on drawing. (Although a lot of people start to notice now with the pictures from 12, if you check out some of his non-game art from those days, some of them are quite something.)
We aren't exactly sure why, but as
ZUN's graphical style changes because he's just trying new things. There's nothing really strange about that, especially considering that he hasn't been an artist for too long.
mentioned, he is always trying out new stuff in terms of games, art and music.
Since making Touhou is sort of like ZUN's pastime, I guess he wants to have fun by mixing in lots of new elements that he never had a go at.
Oh, and regarding gods and Yokai?
gods=/=yokai
no matter how powerful, although they may become a being very similar to it.
and there has been gods in myths who have been defeated by demons and yokai, although its the other way around in most cases.
Think about it this way, the Touhou world has (As a world) millions of gods
-Well obviously, if Japanese mythology includes minor deities spawning from every little action that major deities and minor deities before them take.-
and we don't know for sure what any of them's capable of doing.
When that's the case, why go on arguing who Shinki and other powerful gods and yokai actually are?
Exactly, its no use because we have nothing to prove any facts about them and nothing to disprove facts about them save the few lines that Kanako Suwako and some other gods (Shizuha, Minoriko, Hina) have said.
... Hell if we're gonna have an argumentabout Shinki and Yuka's possibilities, let's start talking about Mima too! :getdown:
... boy do I love this smily :D
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1. So the only real way to kill an immortal is by destroying/stealing their soul. Guess we need the Soul Edge if Mokou or Kaguya finally go batshit. But what if the absorber is Godzilla sized? Like some world devouring monster? It wouldn't be able to explode then. Though Kaguya and Mokou could either regenerate outside their body (assuming they aren't locked inside it) or regenerate inside it and start messing up the beast's internal systems. Using a giant heart as boxing bag, anyone?
Although, Cell from DBZ could absorb android 17 and 18 by devouring their entire bodies, and they apparently 'shrunk' to fit in his body. When Cell got punched in the gut he barfed Android 18 up without her even having a scratch on her. If the absorber possessed this same technique, he/she could keep Kaguya and Mokou in stasis inside his/her body without him/her splattering apart. At least, they'll stay inside until the absorber gets punched in the gut with the force of a super sonic jet.
That is definitely possible. It happened all the time if you as me. Wonder if Godzilla survive a danmaku inside out? I think not ;)
All the other Goddesses are a lot more humble.
lolwut
And I think I said that before, but you guys ignored me so I'll say that again :V
There are 2 kinds of god:
One is born as a god with absolute powers.
One is born as a normal being, even weak or whatever but they somehow manage to do something incredible, and has faith from people around. Gradually they are worshiped and became gods.
Their powers are varied, but they are still damn gods, that is their title, God.
There is nothing such as "gods are stronger than youkai", Sun Wukong, who can be considered as a monkey youkai, wiped out entirely Heaven and can only be captured by Grand Buddha and Grand Buddha alone.
Shinki is immortal, however her power is "unknown", so you can't say she is stronger than Yukari, Yuuka or Mima or Kanako at the moment. I dare say Kanako is in the league. :V
P/S: Danmaku is a game where Reimu the kid pwns all, ALL.
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Regarding the dragon: No. Read the article again.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Dragon
Does Akyu mention 'dragons', or 'dragon'? 'They' or 'he'? Plural, or singular?
Singular.
There might be lizard youkai that look like dragons, but Akyu mentions in the SPECIES page of dragons only ONE dragon. And this isn't a character specific page. It is the species page, and even then she only talks about one dragon. Thus, there is only one real Dragon.
The hell?! I swear to the dragon God that the last time I checked, every instance of dragon was plural in there...
*checks article history*
Yep, it was (http://touhou.wikia.com/index.php?title=Perfect_Memento:_Dragon&oldid=28055). Okay, apparently I was mislead by an old, faulty translation, sorry. :blush:
Regarding Shinki: How the do you know so for sure?
Yuuka didn't fight for real either, since Yuuka could just walk up to Reimu and kick the ever loving crap out of her. Or make her head explode by collapsing the dimension around it (Yuuka has her own dimension in her mansion and she is clearly capable of controlling it, judging from the psychedelic changes in the background during the fight). If Yuuka didn't fought for real, why should Shinki? Mima and Yumemi fought for real, but they are just piss weak. Shinki can create entire worlds and dimensions, create intelligent life, manipulate reality (her background went even more psychedelic than Yuuka's) and she can destroy an entire world. UNINTENTIONALLY. Who else can do that in the cast, huh? No one except Dragon God. Even Yukari can't create a living world. She has a hard time replicating the Hakurei Border! (see the Touhou Wiki entry regarding the Hakurei Border) And Shinki just busted through the dimension with ease to let the demons in. And who says safe, fair competition magic battles didn't exist back then? Sure, the SPELLCARD rules didn't exist then, which uses, well, CARDS. Who says a former maiden/ruling youkai didn't establish a certain degree of safe fighting earlier (except it wasn't that accessible for normal humans), just without cards? And NO ONE has ever died in the PC-98 games, despite all the murderous creatures there. And Reimu has already beaten the Queen of Hell and the Angel of Death back then. WITH A BALL. Clearly there were restricting rules back then too. AS if God would make the Angel of Death piss weak. Yeah right. And time outs were also possible in the early games. WHY would these all-powerful beings quit themselves, even if they have enough health left?! Even BYAKUREN, who was sealed in Makai for THOUSANDS OF YEARS knew of the spellcard system. Clearly rules were established then. I doubt they have a newspaper in Hokai. Clearly the basics were already made and a few rules were established.
After all, if Shinki can make her world warp and turn like that during the battle she could have easily made Reimu's head explode/let the dimension compress and crush Reimu. She was clearly holding back. She may not want to kill a child. Maybe she was doing it for the lulz like Yuuka. Maybe she DOES have a scheme. Or, like I just described, rules DO apply. She clearly wasn't fighting for real. Maybe a part of the rules were just established? The rules were made AROUND MS and EoSD by Yukari and a mysterious vampire (probably Remilia. See the Maribel=Yukari thread), and Reimu wasn't there to make the rules (also explained in the Maribel=Yukari thread). A few rules might have already been established, yet discussions still raged over the rest (the card part), explaining why cards weren't in MS.
If Shinki was omnipotent, she would by neccessity be able to do the following things:
a) If there were "fair fighting rules" back then, which may very well be true, then she could've simply decided to be better at it than anyone else, and it would've been so.
b) If she didn't want to harm the player, she could've incapacitated them without doing them harm.
The argument of Shinki being more powerful than Yukari because she was able to tear a good hole through the Hakurei border is flawed on many levels, but I don't want to type this stuff all out so I'll just tell you to read the Wiki article (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Hakurei_Border) again.
Taking the abstract weirdness of a battle background as indicator for the character's power is just :derp:.
That Shinki wrecked a good part of Makai during the battle doesn't prove her omnipotence; it proves that she is very powerful, but we already knew that. Many characters are powerful enoguh to devastate landscapes. If anything, Shinki should've been able to defeat the player without causing any unwanted collateral damage. This also makes it quite unlikely that she lost on purpose.
You assume that Shinki is omnipotent because she created the entirety of Makai. However, as far as I can see, nowhere is it stated how much time, effort and energy it took her to do so. For all we know, it could've taken her millenia. Just as Yukari cannot simply gap-hax reality to pieces as many fans would like you to believe, Shinki is more than likely to have limits to her (undefined!) abilities.
Inflating Yuka's power through simlimar assumptions and then concluding Shinki's power from that is just transferring the issue from one place to another.
What you do is take every uncertain hint towards Shinki being the most powerful character available and take it for hard evidence while assuming the opposite for every other super powerful character. If we go munchkin on the other characters' abilites like you do with Shinki, if we assume everybody to be as powerful as the most generous interpretation of their abilities allows, we can discuss all day. For example:
"Cirno is one of the most powerful characters because she can put the entire world to absolute zero, killing everybody and stop time itself, she merely doesn't do it because she is stupid. "
You see, it is not that difficult.
In short: Shinki is (nigh-)omnipotent, could have bested Reimu easily, something held her back and she's way stronger than the bulk of the cast. 'Nuff said.
Shinki was just bluffing the entire time, she didn't create makai but simply made people believe that she did. Not that I would believe that, it is just to show that because it is possible, it can still be unreasonable to believe it.
The vast room of speculation renders the majority of power level speculation moot, anyways. Believe what you want, but don't assume that anyone is going to buy it if you try to convince them . I just keep going because I enjoy a good argument. :3
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First a few things I didn't mention before.
1. Kanako doesn't grow stronger when she feels good, at least not any more than anyone else; she feels good when she grows in power, which is perfectly natural I might add.
2. Apparently you didn't understand what I said. Everybody will always tend to do what makes them feel better, no matter whether that is giving food to homeless people or punching puppies. A "selfish" person is merely one who doesn't get enjoyment out of making other people feel good. A "bad" person is one who is willing to make other people feel bad as long as they feel better. An "evil" person is one who gets enjoyment directly from making other people feel bad.
It was a metaphor. When I said 'feeling good' I meant faith obviously. Read between the lines! ITS CALLED SARCASM!
Another note: I'm not saying all of this because I love Shinki very dearly, but because it is perfectly understandable and obvious! All the signs point out she is the mightiest character (besides Dragon) up till this point! I'd go in this same discussion even if I didn't like Shinki!
Back to topic:
*cough* Anyway, my own personal fanwank about Shinki is that 1. an Infinite Being is technically not a god, since the gods require Faith of some sort and Shinki does not (this last bit I admit is my own invention, but "not mentioned by canon" is not the same thing as "contradicted by canon"), and 2. what Reimu/Marisa/Yuka/Mima fought was just an avatar Shinki created for the purpose of dealing with mortals; I guess she reasoned that if someone was angry enough to fight her, it was usually for a reason, so if nothing else they'd get the catharsis of having fought her. She wasn't stupid, so her avatar was pretty damn powerful, but this was basically a the same principle as the Spell Card system which Reimu created, except for pretty much exactly the opposite reason ...
Once again Muffin deserves a Noble Prize for 'best idea ever'. This perfectly explains why Shinki lost and why she didn't insta-kill her competitors. She wanted to have a fair fight, so she made a significantly weaker avatar to fight in her stead. She got a bit too carried away with it and wrecked Makai. No matter, since she can fix it in a jiffy thanks to her omnipotence. If she fought in her true form you'd get a scene similar to the Giygas battle from Eartbound: a foe who's form and attacks are completely inconceivable. Only difference is that the players can't reach for the 'pray' option. Thus, they would be completely pulverized. There have been DOZENS of characters that could have followed through with their scheme even if they lost a danmaku battle to Reimu. ALL of them could flip her the birdy and keep going with their plan. Yet they don't, since losing a danmaku battle is like a discussion: if you lose it you have to give in to the other. Shinki did something similar, giving up once her avatar got defeated. She could have continued if she wanted, but decided the heroines won fair and square. Otherwise you'd get a scene similar to Persona 3, where the Big Bad destroys everything after all even when her avatar was defeated. The tourism thing probably didn't mean that much to Shinki anyway.
But now I think of Nyx Avatar whenever I think of Shinki....
I do however think Shinki IS a God. At least, she's MORE God than every other character besides the enigmatic Dragon. So if people keep hanging on to that 'faith elementals' are real Gods, then Shinki is BEYOND godlike. She's the Azathoth to Kanako's Cthulhu.
And I think I said that before, but you guys ignored me so I'll say that again :V
There are 2 kinds of god:
One is born as a god with absolute powers.
One is born as a normal being, even weak or whatever but they somehow manage to do something incredible, and has faith from people around. Gradually they are worshiped and became gods.
Their powers are varied, but they are still damn gods, that is their title, God.
There is nothing such as "gods are stronger than youkai", Sun Wukong, who can be considered as a monkey youkai, wiped out entirely Heaven and can only be captured by Grand Buddha and Grand Buddha alone.
Shinki is immortal, however her power is "unknown", so you can't say she is stronger than Yukari, Yuuka or Mima or Kanako at the moment. I dare say Kanako is in the league. :V
P/S: Danmaku is a game where Reimu the kid pwns all, ALL.
That is a perfect description: Shinki is a born, absolute God, while Kanako and Suwako ascended from mortals into Faith Gods due to faith. Shinki has probably lived for millions or even billions of years, and is the source of all demon kind. In fact, you NEED to be powerful if you are the creator of all demons.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere on Wikipedia (can't remember which article) that youkai are all beings with power between that of man and that of kami. Of course, there can be exceptions to this rule.
I'd rather league Kanako with Byakuren, Eirin and Yuyuko, the runner-ups for 'mightiest in Gensokyo'. Yukari and Yuuka fit more with Flandre and Suika. Those latter four are downright more hax or just significantly more powerful than the former four. I dare say Shinki is in a league of her own, with the only being (that isn't Dragon) able to match her being Shikieiki. Since powerlevels of characters are frowned on, I'll just show a powerlevel chart of SPECIES. No way you can argue with that.
God Tier - Dragon
Top Tier - Infinite Beings, Yama
Very High Tier - Supreme youkai, Oni, Celestials, Shinigami, Lunarians
High Tier - Complete youkai magicians, Greater faith gods, greater youkai, vampires, ghosts
And yes, Reimu transcends it all because she is the poster girl for God-Hax Sues (only thing that differs her from the other Sues is that she's actually likable).
Neener neener neener.
First, read Muffin's last post regarding avatars. Muffin already perfectly described that Shinki wanted to have a FAIR fight. Almost all Touhou characters play fair. You could discuss about every character why they don't fight better or use their powers. The point is null and void. Shinki wanted to fight fair, and thus didn't use impossible patterns. She didn't want to incapacitate them either. She wanted to do what every other villain the series did: fight it out in a fair fight to determine what should be next course of action. Danmaku = Politics, and you don't cheat in politics. The one who loses the match has to give in to the victor's ideas and plans. Every bullet is basically a vote against that person. They were having a vote on whether the tourism to Gensokyo should end or not. And like all political discussions it can get very fiery or even get out of hand.That is exactly what happened.
Using the backgrounds is a perfectly accurate assumption. Only a handful of characters in the PC-98 games changed the background, and even then it was only one still picture. Most of the time these still backgrounds are just illusions. But Yuuka and Shinki completely fucked around with reality, basically turning it inside out! We already saw that their hangouts we're interdimensional clusterfucks made by themselves! Sure, Gengetsu and Mugetsu made Mugenkan, but Yuuka connected it to her mansion and could control it just as well! Having your own dimension shows you are one powerful badass mofo in Gensokyo, and Yuuka always tries to make herself look like the biggest, baddest mofo in Gensokyo. And this is BEFORE spellcards and all that illusionary background crap! If you can control your own dimension, you could obviously use it to kill anyone who is INSIDE the dimension. Yukari uses her pocket dimension for a multitude of things, INCLUDING asskicking. So who says Yuuka and Shinki can't do the same with their full-fledged dimensions? And again, only the mightiest Touhous have (pocket-)dimensions, and Shinki has the biggest of them all (housing INTELLIGENT LIFE). This perfectly shows she is far more powerful than the rest. Also, she may not be omnipotent everywhere, but she certainly IS omnipotent in Makai, since she can control it and everything inside entirely. THAT sounds like omnipotence to me.
Judging from the skill she has shown, I think it is UNlikely she has limits. Maybe there are other Infinite Beings who have a further extent of power, but Shinki can still do infinitely more things than all the other characters. Once again, only the Dragon is confirmed to best her (and everyone else) in reality warping. BECAUSE her power is unspecified she wouldn't have limits. ALL the powers in the series have vast amounts of uses and applications, but all of them have certain limits (even boundary manipulation). We know that Shinki can create, yet her power isn't specified. Thus, there is nothing to hinder her creation and reality warping powers! They are (nigh-)limitless! There are no established rules to limit her power!
I'm not downgrading the other characters, but just showing a rough showcase of their power in comparison to others. Sure, Kanako is waaaaaaay more powerful than any human, and if she would indeed look a God if she was the only final boss. However, with the presence of Yukari, Yuuka and Shinki she looks horribly insignificant. A cat looks large when compared to a mouse, but the cat looks small when compared to an elephant. Here, Kanako looks strong when compared to humans, but Kanako looks weak when compared to Yukari, Yuuka and Shinki. That is what I'm trying to tell you.
To make my point of Shinki > Gensokyo Top > MoF Gods even more clear, let's use the 'Physical God criteria' from TV Tropes.
Here are the criteria for Physical Gods:
* Nigh Invulnerability - They can get physically hit occasionally, but no real physical damage will occur without a Deus Ex Machina or a MacGuffin. (See Implacable Man.)
* Super Strength
* Telekinesis
* Shoot fireballs/lightning
* Teleportation and/or Flight
* Power to alter reality at will, generally in limited areas or in ways relating to their attunement? see below.
* Limited Omniscience: They can be aware of what's going on in a general area, but they have to pay attention to it. So it's possible to surprise them.
* Attunement to concept: ie, Aphrodite the Goddess of Love is attuned to love, naturally. If fewer people love, then she's weakened. If she's hurt or weakened due to some plot reason, fewer people love. Not all gods have attunements, and the level of attunement depends on the writer at the time. Which may overlap with...
* Gods Need Prayer Badly: Their power may be directly proportional to the number of worshipers they have, or to the strength of their followers' belief.
* Immortality: They usually don't age, but can be killed - although it's incredibly difficult to do so and usually takes a great deal of effort or some special item to do so. If enough people still believe in them, they may be brought back to life - although they may have lost their memories or be forced to take a new form.
Kanako, Suwako and the other Faith Gods possess these traits:
* Nigh Invulnerability
* Super Strength (Though possibly applicable to Kanako for being a War Goddess, but otherwise super strength isn't mentioned)
* Telekinesis (limited to their own weaponry and elements though)
* Shoot fireballs/lightning (Danmaku of course)
* Teleportation and/or Flight
* Power to alter reality at will (there are shit loads of youkai that can use the elements, so I don't count element bending as reality warping)
* Limited Omniscience
* Attunement to concept
* Gods Needs Prayers Badly
* Immortality (Can still die from lack of faith)
Shinki possesses these:
* Nigh Invulnerability
* Super Strength (Again, not directly mentioned, but if we assume she really is omnipotent she could punch as hard Captain Falcon. Lets cross it out anyway to be fair)
* Telekinesis (You can see the pillars at the pre-battle scene and the walls of the screen start spinning hysterically in the air once Shinki starts fighting)
* Shoot fireballs/lightning (Danmaku of course, and can probably actually use these elements. Makai has fire and lightning, and Shinki made Makai. Thus, she created fire and lightning in Makai and can thus control it. Everything in Makai is in her command.)
* Teleportation and/or Flight
* Power to alter reality at will
* Limited Omniscience (She knows everything that happens in Makai, but can still be surprised by outsiders.)
* Attunement to concept (if she is destroyed (which is nigh-impossible) Makai probably disappears)
* Gods Needs Prayers Badly
* Immortality (Is absolutely immortal)
Now tell me, who fits better with the criteria to Physical God? Shinki or the MoF Gods?
Shinki.
Lets compare Yukari to the MoF Gods.
* Nigh Invulnerability (Youkai are HARD to kill)
* Super Strength (Yukari is a youkai, and super strength is a stock super power for youkai. She might prefer not to get her hands dirty, but she can probably tear off your head with one hand)
* Telekinesis (All the stuff she fires out of her gaps tends to fly about)
* Shoot fireballs/lightning (Danmaku, and can control these with her borders)
* Teleportation and/or Flight
* Power to alter reality at will
* Limited Omniscience (She knows a lot about Gensokyo at all times, almost frighteningly so. She sometimes even acts as if she knows what you are thinking.)
* Attunement to concept (Yukari helped strengthen the Border. If she dies the Border might significantly weaken. Access to Hakugyokurou becomes impossible, and it is way harder to access the outside world. Her own pocket dimension will probably collapse upon her death.)
* Gods Needs Prayers Badly
* Immortality (Youkai live for thousands of years. Yukari could use her gap powers to become completely immortal)
Yukari boasts far more impressive skills than the MoF Gods, yet she is still classified a regular youkai.
Now, for even more comparison, let's bring Superman in here:
* Nigh Invulnerability
* Super Strength
* Telekinesis
* Shoot fireballs/lightning
* Teleportation and/or Flight
* Power to alter reality at will (Not only is Superman one big, walking middlefinger to the laws of physics, he can also erase memories with kisses, turn the emblem on his chest into a net and turn back time by spinning the planet the other way)
* Limited Omniscience
* Attunement to concept
* Gods Needs Prayers Badly
* Immortality (Kryptonite can kill him, but there is a far lower chance that he comes across the stuff than that the MoF Gods run out of faith.)
Superman clearly has the upper-hand over the MoF Gods in a fight. If Superman can kick the ever loving crap out of your God you should really consider searching for a new God.
As you can see, the MoF Gods are severely inferior to Yukari and Shinki (and Superman). Kanako isn't in the same league as the Gensokyo Top, and Shinki is a far more superior being and omnipotent. Anything to say against that?
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Not really. Apart from that not really having anything to do with the question and it basically being a 'Kanako sucks' screed. And something about Superman. Anyway, sure, you win. Why not?
Here's one: is there any proof that Yukari, Chen and Ran use mobile phones, apart from that one comment by Marisa?
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Given that I'm not even sure what you mean by "that one comment by Marisa," probably no.
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Ah, sorry. The comment was that Yukari communicates with Ran and Chen 'by talking into a little box.'
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Occam's Razor: it's just a little box, which she gave the same enchantment that she put on Reimu and Marisa's options in SA. When was this comment?
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Hang on ...
*consults Touhou wiki*
... ah, here it is:
Marisa once stated that Yukari uses a small box to talk to her shikigami when they are far away from her, which led Rinnosuke to believe that she owns a cell phone (at least two, really).
Doesn't say where Marisa made this comment though.
If they do own mobile phones, this raises a few questions. First, how do they charge them? I could believe Yukari gaps into the outside specifically to charge their mobile phones, but then, what sort of coverage do they get in Gensokyo? Can mobile phone signals travel through the Hakurei Border? What about television and radio?
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I think OkashiiKisei's admiration to Shinki is beyond help, but it's good to have such a solid faith in your character, especially in Touhou community. You deserved a cookies.
And I think the only time they mention about outside world's thingies was Yukari and a DS. The little box can be the same as...you know, using 2 bottles connected by a wire, but in this case magic.
If they do use mobile phones, well I think they are living outside. The place of Yukari's house is "UNKNOWN" you see, with her hax ability going in and out Gensokyo is a piece of cake.
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Ooooh, this is going to be fun. :D
First a few things I didn't mention before.
It was a metaphor. When I said 'feeling good' I meant faith obviously. Read between the lines! ITS CALLED SARCASM!
I know that. However, even then your sentence is not really a good retort to what I said.
Another note: I'm not saying all of this because I love Shinki very dearly, but because it is perfectly understandable and obvious! All the signs point out she is the mightiest character (besides Dragon) up till this point! I'd go in this same discussion even if I didn't like Shinki!
The majority of my argumentation consists of pointing out that it is not obvious at all and relies heavily on speculation. Muffin's idea is a perfect example: If you didn't already assume that Shinki was nigh-omnipotent beforehand, you wouldn't have to resort to a theory that is entirely fan-created.
I am reminded of the convoluted planetary movements that astronomers during the late middle ages had to assume in order to hold up their faulty premise of the sun circling around the earth.
There have been DOZENS of characters that could have followed through with their scheme even if they lost a danmaku battle to Reimu. ALL of them could flip her the birdy and keep going with their plan. Yet they don't, since losing a danmaku battle is like a discussion: if you lose it you have to give in to the other.
Only that a supposedly nigh-omnipotent being would by neccessity be better at everything than anyone else by default.
For the following quote, I will mark the text with "citation needed", "faulty argument" and "wrong".
That is a perfect description: Shinki is a born, absolute God, while Kanako and Suwako ascended from mortals into Faith Gods due to faith. Shinki has probably lived for millions or even billions of years, and is the source of all demon kind. In fact, you NEED to be powerful if you are the creator of all demons.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere on Wikipedia (can't remember which article) that youkai are all beings with power between that of man and that of kami. Of course, there can be exceptions to this rule.
I'd rather league Kanako with Byakuren, Eirin and Yuyuko, the runner-ups for 'mightiest in Gensokyo'. Yukari and Yuuka fit more with Flandre and Suika. Those latter four are downright more hax or just significantly more powerful than the former four. I dare say Shinki is in a league of her own, with the only being (that isn't Dragon) able to match her being Shikieiki. Since powerlevels of characters are frowned on, I'll just show a powerlevel chart of SPECIES. No way you can argue with that.
God Tier - Dragon
Top Tier - Infinite Beings, Yama
Very High Tier - Supreme youkai, Oni, Celestials, Shinigami, Lunarians
High Tier - Complete youkai magicians, Greater faith gods, greater youkai, vampires, ghosts
And yes, Reimu transcends it all because she is the poster girl for God-Hax Sues (only thing that differs her from the other Sues is that she's actually likable).
First, read Muffin's last post regarding avatars. Muffin already perfectly described that Shinki wanted to have a FAIR fight. Almost all Touhou characters play fair. You could discuss about every character why they don't fight better or use their powers. The point is null and void. Shinki wanted to fight fair, and thus didn't use impossible patterns. She didn't want to incapacitate them either. She wanted to do what every other villain the series did: fight it out in a fair fight to determine what should be next course of action. Danmaku = Politics, and you don't cheat in politics. The one who loses the match has to give in to the victor's ideas and plans. Every bullet is basically a vote against that person. They were having a vote on whether the tourism to Gensokyo should end or not. And like all political discussions it can get very fiery or even get out of hand.That is exactly what happened.
Using the backgrounds is a perfectly accurate assumption. Only a handful of characters in the PC-98 games changed the background, and even then it was only one still picture. Most of the time these still backgrounds are just illusions. But Yuuka and Shinki completely fucked around with reality, basically turning it inside out! We already saw that their hangouts we're interdimensional clusterfucks made by themselves! Sure, Gengetsu and Mugetsu made Mugenkan, but Yuuka connected it to her mansion and could control it just as well! Having your own dimension shows you are one powerful badass mofo in Gensokyo, and Yuuka always tries to make herself look like the biggest, baddest mofo in Gensokyo. And this is BEFORE spellcards and all that illusionary background crap! If you can control your own dimension, you could obviously use it to kill anyone who is INSIDE the dimension. Yukari uses her pocket dimension for a multitude of things, INCLUDING asskicking. So who says Yuuka and Shinki can't do the same with their full-fledged dimensions? And again, only the mightiest Touhous have (pocket-)dimensions, and Shinki has the biggest of them all (housing INTELLIGENT LIFE). This perfectly shows she is far more powerful than the rest. Also, she may not be omnipotent everywhere, but she certainly IS omnipotent in Makai, since she can control it and everything inside entirely. THAT sounds like omnipotence to me.
Judging from the skill she has shown, I think it is UNlikely she has limits. Maybe there are other Infinite Beings who have a further extent of power, but Shinki can still do infinitely more things than all the other characters. Once again, only the Dragon is confirmed to best her (and everyone else) in reality warping. BECAUSE her power is unspecified she wouldn't have limits. ALL the powers in the series have vast amounts of uses and applications, but all of them have certain limits (even boundary manipulation). We know that Shinki can create, yet her power isn't specified. Thus, there is nothing to hinder her creation and reality warping powers! They are (nigh-)limitless! There are no established rules to limit her power!
I'm not downgrading the other characters, but just showing a rough showcase of their power in comparison to others. Sure, Kanako is waaaaaaay more powerful than any human, and if she would indeed look a God if she was the only final boss. However, with the presence of Yukari, Yuuka and Shinki she looks horribly insignificant. A cat looks large when compared to a mouse, but the cat looks small when compared to an elephant. Here, Kanako looks strong when compared to humans, but Kanako looks weak when compared to Yukari, Yuuka and Shinki. That is what I'm trying to tell you.
All your claims about how Shinki was merely holding back and could do much more if she actually wanted to I can make for most other powerful characters, and if a character truly is holding back, one can never be shure how powerful they really are. Both Aya and Alice are canonically holding back pretty much all the time, yet I don't go on inflating their power to ludicrous levels. Well, there are fanboys who do, but their argumentations don't really have a good basis in canon, either.
You know, pretty much all the characters have an ability that reads like "manipulation of something", except for those with even more specified abilities, like mind-reading. You know what abilities Kanako and Suwako have? The abilitiy to create sky and earth. Afaik, there are no mentionings of them having specific limitations one these powers. Hell, Kanako and Suwako were able to move their shrine to Gensokyo, which is not really a mere act of creation, so we obviously need to look at them in a very broad way. We know that the two were immensely weakened due to running low on followers, yet they were able to do that. Now that they have established a good amount of followers on the mountain, their power has obviously increased since then. Thus we can conclude that by now, when working together, Kanako and Suwako are nigh-omnipotent.
Now you may say: "Hey, they needed the help of a sun-god-empowered hell crow to support the mountain with fusion energy!"
Well, Shinki couldn't create a holiday zone in Makai, either, she apparently depended on the existence of another world for her minions to visit. Come up with a reason for that, and I'll use the same reasoning to explain why Kanako and Suwako didn't provide fusion energy by themselves.
To make my point of Shinki > Gensokyo Top > MoF Gods even more clear, let's use the 'Physical God criteria' from TV Tropes.
These criteria are pretty much bull when held up to shinto gods in general. Even some of the greek gods' manifestations fall pretty short there.
Now, as a (supposedly) final argument of mine:
We know that Shinki is a goddess and created Makai. To do that, she doesn't have to be omnipotent, at least not indefinitely omnipotent. She merely has to have any creation powers at all and alot of time.
In rational thinking, you usually try to adhere to the model that requires the least amount of unproven premises to fully explain the situation. If you assume that Shinki is (nigh-)omnipotent, you need tons of additional premises or theories to explain the situation. If you don't assume that she is (nigh-)omnipotent, the model is self-contained.
There is no reason for me(or anyone else to believe your explanations unless they really liked your idea (and Shinki) very, very much. If you ask me, Shinki is already quite awesome without such theories.
On an unrelated note, TVTropes + Touhou = ::)
Mainly because of the centerpiece of this very discussion: Everybody overestimates the characters vastly.
Reimu equals the Greek Gods in Power and Yukari is the personificated will of ZUN? Yeah, right.
...why are there so many answers while I type? <.<
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Iryan, dude, Okashi won, OK? Let it go. We're talking about mobile phones in Gensokyo now.
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Iryan, dude, Okashi won, OK?
1. Why are you trying to take away my fun? :V
2. You declared that while I was typing.
3. You cannot "win" an argument.
4. He obviously hasn't. :V
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You can win an argument, just randomly start dancing at the middle of it. Trust me (and RayWilliamJohnson) you'll win that argument.
Anyhow tl;dr, but
God Tier - Gods
Top Tier - Infinite Beings, Yama
Very High Tier - Dragons, Supreme Youkai, Celestials, Shinigami
High Tier - Oni, Faith Gods, Vampires, Lunarians, Supreme Ghosts
Medium Tier - Complete Youkai, Were Beasts
Low Tier - the rest + human
Fix'd
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1. Why are you trying to take away my fun? :V
2. You declared that while I was typing.
3. You cannot "win" an argument.
4. He obviously hasn't. :V
1. Why do you hate mobile phones?
2. The question is long since answered and is now straying into a fanboy shitfest.
3. Sure you can.
4. See 2.
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:toot:
Edit: Emoticons to show I'm friendly!
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3. Sure you can.
An argument should never be about "winning" but about finding the truth. It is not about making people believe you are right, it is about making shure that you are not wrong. That is the principle of scientific discourse.
It is just that pretty much nobody adhears to this. :fail:
...maybe I should really try the dancing thingy... :/
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Welp, that's the internet fer ya.
So then - mobile phones!
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Stop discussing power levels. <3
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Stop discussing power levels. <3
Last warning.
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Alright, regarding the cellphones I don't think it is that weird if Yukari has a bit of technology with her. She did nab a gameboy and knew exactly what it was (in chapter 11.5). She even mentioned a DS and knew how an I-Pod worked that was in Kourindou (chapter 11). The story even mentions that Yukari has a close connection to the outside world. And she could gap out of the border without much effort. Who knows what kind of electronics she has in her mansion. I wouldn't be surprised if she had a computer there too.
Regarding radio waves and electricity: perhaps Yukari has left a few gaps around the border that are too small to let anything alive through, but are jyst big enough to let radio waves though, allowing the cellphones to work. And maybe Yukari did the same for electricity: she made a gap that lead to a house in the outside world with electric plugs for her electronics to work. She lets the cables of her electronics pass through the gap and then connects them to the plugs, activating the electronics. Maybe she links it directly an electricity factory without anyone knowing, but I think she'd rather opt for that second home in the outer world. Now that nuclear power is available in Gensokyo she's using that instead of the plugs in her second house. Or Yukari gap hacked all the electronic's batteries to be unable to run out of electricity.
There are many possibilities, really.
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Alright, regarding the cellphones I don't think it is that weird if Yukari has a bit of technology with her. She did nab a gameboy and knew exactly what it was (in chapter 11.5). She even mentioned a DS and knew how an I-Pod worked that was in Kourindou (chapter 11). The story even mentions that Yukari has a close connection to the outside world. And she could gap out of the border without much effort. Who knows what kind of electronics she has in her mansion. I wouldn't be surprised if she had a computer there too.
Regarding radio waves and electricity: perhaps Yukari has left a few gaps around the border that are too small to let anything alive through, but are jyst big enough to let radio waves though, allowing the cellphones to work. And maybe Yukari did the same for electricity: she made a gap that lead to a house in the outside world with electric plugs for her electronics to work. She lets the cables of her electronics pass through the gap and then connects them to the plugs, activating the electronics. Maybe she links it directly an electricity factory without anyone knowing, but I think she'd rather opt for that second home in the outer world. Now that nuclear power is available in Gensokyo she's using that instead of the plugs in her second house. Or Yukari gap hacked all the electronics batteries to be unable to run out of electricity.
There are many possibilities, really.
Now we're getting somewhere. Contact with electricity and mobile phone frequencies, alright. All this is plausible. But nothing is free. Whose calling plan is Yukari using? How is she billed? If she isn't, how does she get around billing?
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Yukari uses a very elaborate tin-can-and-string setup
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Now we're getting somewhere. Contact with electricity and mobile phone frequencies, alright. All this is plausible. But nothing is free. Whose calling plan is Yukari using? How is she billed? If she isn't, how does she get around billing?
Well, I think the 'Boundary of Poverty and Fortune' isn't that hard to use. With that boundary (or a similar one) she could make money appear out of thin air. Or she gaps money bags out of banks and pays them with that. Those bills are probably sent to that second house, where Yukari retrieves them and pays the bills with either self-created or stolen money. Or she just sends a bit of money she already has, and then gaps it back every time there is a bill, so she can pay for it again with the exact same money. Basically: Yukari is paying thousands of taxes and bills with the exact same yen/money bills every time, which she immediately gaps back whenever a new bill comes in so she can pay for it again. This is less likely to cause an economic crisis than the other two options, and it has that trickster vibe to it that Yukari loves so much.
But now that Moriya Shrine provides electricity (seemingly) for free I think Yukari doesn't need to keep up that routine anymore. Unless she doesn't want to use energy from the Moriyas. I'm still not sure if Yukari and Kanako are friends or enemies...
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Regarding the original question, the comment from Marisa in question is from Curiosities of Lotus Asia, Chapter 11 (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Curiosities_of_Lotus_Asia:_Chapter_11). The title translates to something like Ultra-Purple Light but that sounds stupid and Ultraviolet Light could have been a much better translation.
But anyway, here's the excerpt with the comment in question:
<in regards to Rinnosuke needing fuel for his heater>
?Want some good advice, Kourin? There?s someone besides you who has a large stock of outside goods, who happens to be an acquaintance of mine. Just the other day, she was saying ?With this tool, one can speak with someone far away.? while using it to talk to her own shikigami?though I was kinda suspicious about it being for real. But I think someone like her would at least have some fuel.?
This provides almost nothing at all, and it's clear that whoever wrote up the fact on Yukari's article made a couple of assumptions, although it being a cellphone is pretty justified (but there are things like walkie-talkies that do a similar function with less hassle).
Of course since all she needs the cellphone for is to talk with her shikigami, Ran, she probably doesn't bother with all the electricity and radio waves and stuff. Most likely, she set up a system herself that enables her phone to connect directly with the phone that Ran has, and then everything's ready, with no hassle. But of course if you want to theorize wildly about how Yukari uses her cellphone then that's up to you.
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Wow so much has gone on since my last visit... now we're on to Yukari's cell phone plans!? Are we stalkers now!? :3
Anyhow, if its someone like Yukari, I won't be surprised if she had a cellphone, but knowing that there aren't transistor cites let alone satellites to process the calls in Gensoukyou -unless Yukari had secretly created those places in Gensoukyou without anybody knowing- I think she just uses her gap to connect her phone and Ran's phones together. Hey, with tricks like hers up one's stream, who needs to contract and pay money if you can connect a microphone to a speaker and vice-versa? Also, thanks to Hatate, we know that if its just the cellphones, you can probably find it in Gensoukyou too.
(Although her's seems a bit different considering her ability...)
Anyhow I have a bit of a question about...
There is nothing such as "gods are stronger than youkai", Sun Wukong, who can be considered as a monkey youkai, wiped out entirely Heaven and can only be captured by Grand Buddha and Grand Buddha alone.
Interesting character to raise, but Sun Wukong was still a youkai so to speak and never awarded or given any kind of title relating to god... did he?
Maybe its because I haven't read the full version of the story...
Sorry I'm a bit off topic on this one.
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Yukari owns cellphones... or at least "cellphone-type thingies". It's confirmed in Subteranean Animism. However, I think she uses her boundary powers to operate the cellphones. I mean, how else would she be able to hook them up to Reimu's yin yang orbs?
From her Impershable Night prologue, she also owns a television set, but she uses it as a spirit container box, whatever the hell that means (Perfect Memento indicates this is a popular use for television sets in Gensokyo)
Apparently, she can hook up her television set to allow you to see what's going on through Reimu's yin yang orbs, too.
...sorry, I digress. It's Reimu's stage 1 conversation with Suika in SA
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Subterranean_Animism:_Reimu_and_Suika%27s_Scenario
Suika: (Oh, hey, you can hear me.
We can talk using your yin-yang orbs.)
(Yukari set them up!)
(and later)
Suika: (...I've got this TV and this
cell phone-type thing Yukari came by with)
(... so, uh, what's a cell phone?)
(Yukari also set up Alice's dolls in SA, so apparently Yukari can hook cell phones and televisions up to dolls, too)
Under normal non-modified-boundary conditions, cell phones don't work in Gensokyo
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Outsider
"They immediately put the tool called "mobile phone" to their ears, and after that they are at a loss of what to do next.
"
"Is this since the tool emitted sinister sounds?"
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ZUN apparently goes into detail about gods in CoLA chapter 24.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Curiosities_of_Lotus_Asia:_Chapter_24
...sadly, that chapter is untranslated by the wiki. If you use babelfish or google translate or whatever, though, it's clearly a chapter going into detail about how faith gods work.
(by the way, the cover to that chapter is one of the most awesome official Touhou artworks ever, IMHO)
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ZUN apparently goes into detail about gods in CoLA chapter 24.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Curiosities_of_Lotus_Asia:_Chapter_24
...sadly, that chapter is untranslated by the wiki. If you use babelfish or google translate or whatever, though, it's clearly a chapter going into detail about how faith gods work.
(by the way, the cover to that chapter is one of the most awesome official Touhou artworks ever, IMHO)
Ah... those books were completely out of my consideration...
you think they'd mind if I took a while to translate them ?
Although I'd guess that I'd need to do lots of reasearch along the way seeing that loadful of text...
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Ah... those books were completely out of my consideration...
you think they'd mind if I took a while to translate them ?
Although I'd guess that I'd need to do lots of reasearch along the way seeing that loadful of text...
Far as I know, it's an open public wiki. If anything, I imagine they'd be thankful for the help in translating something. I know I as a wiki reader certainly would be.
EDIT: On a side note to an earlier post of mine, I just noticed that Suika knows what a TV is, but not a cellphone. It's nice to see ZUN pays attention to continuity like that (since like I said, TVs are actually used a lot in Gensokyo as spirit boxes, but at least as of Perfect Memento, no one knew what those strange tools outsiders put to their ears were)
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Far as I know, it's an open public wiki. If anything, I imagine they'd be thankful for the help in translating something. I know I as a wiki reader certainly would be.
Cool, I'm on the job. ...But since I'm not experienced in wiki editing nor am I an expert in the English language like the guys down at the scarlet library...
you know what I'm trying to say... right?
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I'm sure you'll do a better job than Babelfish or Google Translate.
Scarlet Library? What's that?
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Scarlet Library? What's that?
I was talking about the one on this board where people go all authors and editors with their literary talent.
...Ah, if only I had better grammer, punctuation, ideas,...etc.
Anyways, I edited the page, see if it makes any sense since I'm not too confident with translating novels like these...
Especially when its after doing tons of research too.
Edit:I just notice that I might want to change all the parts where I used "assets" to "blessings" ... Maybe another day... :(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcYESYVs1FY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcYESYVs1FY)
could anyone tell me please, what does she says at 0:21 ?
cant tell... :( (romanji and english please?, trying to make a fansub) ^^
Gao~!
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Wow, that was fast. I must say I'm impressed. It's certainly a lot more understandable and coherent than using an online translator.
Just an aside, Silent Sinner in Blue states that Suwako and Kanako retained their earthly bodies (or something like that), which is how those two are able to operate so autonomously, or... something. Don't have SSiB available at the moment but it's the part where Reimu is explaining how shinto gods work.
"By the way, who was the god of the Hakurei Shrine? An evil spirit, wasn't it right?"
""We don't have much records about that. Although we did get taken over by an evil spirit in the past..."
Hunh. A Mima reference. Interesting.
What I'd love to get my hands on is the remaining Cage in Lunatic Runagate Chapters. Sadly, Touhouwikia doesn't even have the untranslated Japanese pages of those (synopsis in the Japanese wiki state that one is Yukari's POV when she opens the way to the moon, one is Reissen II's POV from watching the Danmaku battle and going back to Earth, one is Reimu's PoV while she's on the moon, and the final chapter has Yukari inviting Eirin over to drink some moon sake, possibly to rub her victory in.
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If they said Gensokyo got taken over by Mima then it's kind of bad news...
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"By the way, who was the god of the Hakurei Shrine? An evil spirit, wasn't it right?"
""We don't have much records about that. Although we did get taken over by an evil spirit in the past..."
Hunh. A Mima reference. Interesting.
If they said Gensokyo got taken over by Mima then it's kind of bad news...
So, if Mima really has become the Hakurei God, then she would be connected to the Hakurei Border, and thus Gensokyo.
So that means Mima is everywhere! :o
That gives a whole new meaning to the term 'God is watching you' :V
(Damnit, now I can't stop imagining Mima doing the Weegee stare to everyone in Gensokyo...)
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Well that may answer to the question "Where is our warm-hearted, kind, gentle, lovely and humourous Mima?" from 9.41% of the fanbase every day.
Anyhow, I'd like to confirm about Alice's TRUE nature, from 99% fanart, she is a uke tsun/yandere pretty cute and all that, but from her dialogues in IN and PCB she sounded like a bitch who would just kill everyone stands in her way with no exception. And to be honest I really like that Alice.
And kinda off topic but why is my sister's doll staring at me through the mirror?
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I always figured she was what Suika and her profiles made her out to be. Cold on the outside but a coward at heart. The problem is, apparently this means "soft and cuddly sometimes (Oriental Sacred Place being the most drastic example I can think of), cold bitch at most other times", which leads to her uke tsun/yandere portrayal in fandom.
Mima kinda sorta did become the Hakurei god for a while, which is why I'm sure that ZUN is making a shout out to her here at the very least (and possibly more. ...possibly).
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Mima
From Mima's offiicial profile in Mystic Square:
"She is like the deity (evil deity) of the Shrine by now, but her personality is more human-ish than human. "
(Just a small warning not to chalk this up to being a big deal. It's possible ZUN is just making a tongue-in-cheek reference, like he does when he says "Genji's probably living in a pond back in the shrine." ZUN's actually stated in an e-mail that overall "I can't comment on the older stories. Feel free to ignore them in derivative works". http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/ZUN That doesn't mean he's completely ignoring them, but it also means that as of the moment you shouldn't take them too seriously because he isn't, either (he's stated in another interview that he didn't really start plotting out Touhou's overall plotline until EoSD). This is why we never get any concrete evidence that the older games happened besides cryptic "Remember me?" statements from Alice and Yuka
Of course, it's also possible that he's serious and someday we might see an epic "The True God of Gensokyo" Mima as a surprise end boss or something)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcYESYVs1FY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcYESYVs1FY)
could anyone tell me please, what does she says at 0:21 ?
cant tell... :( (romanji and english please?, trying to make a fansub) ^^
Gao~!
Ooh, fansub~ sounds fun~ :)
At its when she sort of stops spinning right?
She says something like "Cho Karamawari tte iuna~!"
Which is something like "Hey, don't call it spinning meaninglessly!"
or something along those lines in english.
... Hmm, I should really start a topic for these once the remainder of my tough exams are over...
So, if Mima really has become the Hakurei God, then she would be connected to the Hakurei Border, and thus Gensokyo.
So that means Mima is everywhere! :o
Hmm interesting take on it, but unfortunately, I don't think what it means; since when I was translating it, I got the feel that Rinnosuke was saying that "the shrine its self" is important to the hakurei daikekkai and it could be just any god inside the shrine.
...Sorry if my English was misleading... :ohdear:
Well that may answer to the question "Where is our warm-hearted, kind, gentle, lovely and humourous Mima?" from 9.41% of the fanbase every day.
Anyhow, I'd like to confirm about Alice's TRUE nature,
And kinda off topic but why is my sister's doll staring at me through the mirror?
Alice's true nature is cool, collected, and all the way pownage as we see in many of her dialogues of 7.5 10.5 12.3 (At least when she wins)
But to say the truth, I like any Alice so I have nothing to say about all those Alices out there who are whatever they are.
... OH NO! Alice is on to u- *Shanghai Laser fired from 1/72 scale Alicia Unsung*
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I agree that she's pretty cowardly, never showed her true power because she feared that if she unleash it and lose, she won't have anything left.
Of course, it's also possible that he's serious and someday we might see an epic "The True God of Gensokyo" Mima as a surprise end boss or something)
That'd be the final game, I don't think us would want this unless it's made right before ZUN dies by age.
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Hmm interesting take on it, but unfortunately, I don't think what it means; since when I was translating it, I got the feel that Rinnosuke was saying that "the shrine its self" is important to the hakurei daikekkai and it could be just any god inside the shrine.
...Sorry if my English was misleading... :ohdear:
I got this impression, too. Just got done proofreading everything and it's more or less clear now, so no worries. If you want to make some references (What's Tenjun, for some example?) I can put them on the page for you, otherwise I'm not sure for some of it.
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I got this impression, too. Just got done proofreading everything and it's more or less clear now, so no worries. If you want to make some references (What's Tenjun, for some example?) I can put them on the page for you, otherwise I'm not sure for some of it.
Fury the awsomest touhou editor... many thanks, and yes I shall elaborate about tenjins and whatnot.
so, terminology used in that chapter:
Tenjin - Written as 天神, he is what people used to believe as the god of the sky/heavens. This is in a similar sense to other popular gods like the Raijin or the Fujin. What makes Tenjin a special figure in this capter is the fact that He was actually a noble called Sugawara no Michizane, but due to a plot caused by the Fujiwara family (Have we seen this name somewhere? Hmmm...) He was sent in to exile and died. After his death, reports of people getting struck with thunder as well as prolonging droughts and a deadly epidemic spreading through the empire all happened at onece. Due to this epidemic many of the children of the emperor were killed too. In order to settle this chaos the court decided that this was caused by the raging spirit of Michizane and to calm him a temple shall be built. This was the beginning to the Tenjin belief.
More can be found at:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenjin_%28kami%29
Konohana no Sakuyabime The goddess Konohana no Sakuyabime (木花咲耶姫) is a popular god that is worshiped in 1300 shrines of Asama belief, (In general the Asama shrine is a branch of shrines that worships the family of Konohana no Sakuyabime, including her father Ooyamatsumi, and sister Iwanagahime.) Konohana no Sakuyabime is believed as the goddess of fire and was given the greatest volcano, Mt.Fuji from her father, but some shrines believe her to be the goddess of water that calms the eruption of Mt.Fuji. She is said to have given birth to her children in a house on fire and thus also is the goddess of child birth and child nurturing. At the birth of her children, her father, Ooyamatsumi made sweet sake and thus these two gods also became the god and goddess of Sake. Her symbol is the famous Sakura.
Anything else...? I think Nigi,Saki, Kushi, and Ara was explained by Rinnosuke... Although these parts are more often refereed to as Nigimitama, Sakimitama, Kushimitama, and Aramitama.
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Another question regarding the dark side of Gensokyo.
On TV-Tropes I was reading about the game La Pucelle Tactics, and how the main character gets turned into a Demon Overlord if she goes to deep into the Underworld and kills a 100 demons. Apparently this is based on an ancient Japanese Legend:
"One who bathes in the blood of a thousand youkai, becomes a youkai."
When I tried to find the original source I only got references to some old anime, but after researching that series (Cho Hakkai) this 1000 youkai thing is apparently from an Japanese tale after all. And 'bathe in the blood of' means about the same as just 'slay'. So, while at first not thinking much about it I suddenly realized what was amiss with this, and started to ask myself a question:
"Fairies are youkai. Fairies die easily, even with Danmaku rules. They regenerate again every time, but they still die basically. And Reimu and Marisa have killed thousands of the buggers throughout the entire series."
"Does that mean Reimu and Marisa are turning into....?"
While it could be dismissed with the fact that the spellcard system prevents everyone from harm, fairies still seem to go kerblooey from getting hit. And the main characters also blasted through undead fairies, which still count as youkai and of which I'm not sure if they can regenerate. And don't forget the PC-98 games, where the rules weren't completely established yet. The fairies and monsters Reimu fought as stage enemies defiantly went kerblooey. And those first five games already had about a thousand I think.
So will Reimu and Marisa slowly start turning into youkai now?
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No, "slaying 1000 youkai to become youkai" has something with the dark power. Like when you purposely (or not) kill a youkai, its soul/power will get consumed by your body, and day after day the power build up and turn into your power, thus making you a youkai. However, if those powers didn't get into you, or it's too weak and got dispelled by you immune system then even if you slay 10000000000000 youkai you're still fine.
The tale based on the ancient times when people yearned for power, youth and immortality, mistook that they can achieve it by "consume" greater power, they went hunting youkai. The tale "eating youkai's heart will grant you its power" or "drinking vampire's blood turns you into a vampire" are the same.
So to your question, it's a no, Reimu and Marisa won't turn into youkai unless they really want it.
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Yukkuri, a small, head that has a robotic voice. Started when someone tried to make Marisa and Reimu in ASCII...
When did it stated that they were edible? And where/when did it start?
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Yukkuri, a small, head that has a robotic voice. Started when someone tried to make Marisa and Reimu in ASCII...
When did it stated that they were edible? And where/when did it start?
You need look no further than the Church of Latter Day Yukkuris (http://shii.org/yukkuri/) for answers to any yukkuri-related question. The earliest reference that I can find there to the edibility of yukkuris is a comic from May 2008 (http://shii.org/yukkuri/makako.2).
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"One who bathes in the blood of a thousand youkai, becomes a youkai."
So will Reimu and Marisa slowly start turning into youkai now?
I don't think that is regarding one's race.
Since I've heard of that one before, but its closer in nuance to... The person who touches pitch shall be defiled. ... is that what its called?
Anyways, in the Touhou world this has already happened to Mokoh, and I think it was stated in some book too.
After all, Mokoh's ability to use fire came from her days of fighting youkai to make a living.
Its these abilities, or certain somethings that you don't see in an average human is something more that they're getting at.
I think in one of the books -was it grimoire of Marisa?- it stated that Reimu was youkai-ish too.
If its "physically" becoming an youkai the people had tons of different ways... like Parsee did...
Edit: At the moment, there are two Japanese sayings that I can think of that relates to this question. One is 朱に交われば赤くなる (Shu ni majiware ba akaku naru) This is saying that once one mixes with red dye, they too will turn red... meaning people will change, get desensitized,...etc. depending on the people they are around. The other is a more morbid version of that going 血にまじれば赤くなる (Chi ni majire ba akaku naru) which is saying the similar thing... but using blood instead of dye. (Although this one has other morbid meanings connected to it too.)
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I don't think that is regarding one's race.
Since I've heard of that one before, but its closer in nuance to... The person who touches pitch shall be defiled. ... is that what its called?
Anyways, in the Touhou world this has already happened to Mokoh, and I think it was stated in some book too.
After all, Mokoh's ability to use fire came from her days of fighting youkai to make a living.
Its these abilities, or certain somethings that you don't see in an average human is something more that they're getting at.
I think in one of the books -was it grimoire of Marisa?- it stated that Reimu was youkai-ish too.
If its "physically" becoming an youkai the people had tons of different ways... like Parsee did...
Edit: At the moment, there are two Japanese sayings that I can think of that relates to this question. One is 朱に交われば赤くなる (Shu ni majiware ba akaku naru) This is saying that once one mixes with red dye, they too will turn red... meaning people will change, get desensitized,...etc. depending on the people they are around. The other is a more morbid version of that going 血にまじれば赤くなる (Chi ni majire ba akaku naru) which is saying the similar thing... but using blood instead of dye. (Although this one has other morbid meanings connected to it too.)
Could you explain a bit more, please? I don't completely understand it yet.
So, do you mean its a psychological thing? Like if you kill 1000 youkai you don't physically turn into a youkai, but for doing such a horrid deed you are practically nothing better than the youkai themselves (moralistically speaking)? A complete monster?
Or do you get powers from slaying 1000 youkai, but don't turn into one? (That example you gave does explain why Mokou has phoenix powers and Kaguya hasn't).
No, "slaying 1000 youkai to become youkai" has something with the dark power. Like when you purposely (or not) kill a youkai, its soul/power will get consumed by your body, and day after day the power build up and turn into your power, thus making you a youkai. However, if those powers didn't get into you, or it's too weak and got dispelled by you immune system then even if you slay 10000000000000 youkai you're still fine.
The tale based on the ancient times when people yearned for power, youth and immortality, mistook that they can achieve it by "consume" greater power, they went hunting youkai. The tale "eating youkai's heart will grant you its power" or "drinking vampire's blood turns you into a vampire" are the same.
So to your question, it's a no, Reimu and Marisa won't turn into youkai unless they really want it.
So it only works if you want to become a youkai... And that 'absorbing youkai souls' thing, is that automatic? Does your body/soul suck in youkai souls? But does that mean youkai will be trapped in your body until you die yourself? That's a pretty cruel fate for the youkai. Or do youkai souls willingly go into your body, hoping you gain enough souls until you are as mighty as a youkai/are a youkai, after which they start controlling you as a new body?
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Could you explain a bit more, please? I don't completely understand it yet.
So, do you mean its a psychological thing? Like if you kill 1000 youkai you don't physically turn into a youkai, but for doing such a horrid deed you are practically nothing better than the youkai themselves (moralistically speaking)? A complete monster?
Gladly, tho I'm not sure if I can write stuff properly considering this...
It doesn't even have to be the number 1000, some big number.
People like Mokoh have gained the ability to control fire which is closer to 妖術 (Yo-jyutsu) as it was stated. Yo-jyutsu is a technique that runs specifically to the Yokai and normal humans will not be able to use it.
It could be guessed that Mokoh learned this skill from the Yokais that she defeated but this is a better example of the word.
By defeating Youkais she has become more Youkai than human.
Reimu's fighting tactics are said to be Youkai-ish, but that's only as a result from fighting Youkai.
These sort of absorbing of tactics and developing certain fighting styles to stay in par with Youkai don't come from defeating one or two, but defeating many, and continuously.
I guess this is the sort of psychological / reflex sort of thing that I was trying to state.
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No, the power of the youkai gets absorbed, not the souls. It's like a curse if you ask me, you kill them, a part of them remain on your body/mind. And to someone at Reimu and Marisa's level they won't be affected that easily.
How about an example.... you often hear people calling a serial killer "mad man", "beast" or "monster" right? This is the same, basically my opinion was the same as Sabino's.
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i got a reimu plush off ebay and then later i found the site that sells all the plushies and noticed there where resales and under resales they say , resales are made with different materials and such , so i was looking up image and google search try find whats the difference between first sale and resale plush but i could not figure out whats the difference , so how do i tell if the one i got is normal or resale ?, like whats different , can u tell by tag? i cant read tag > > ,, thanks for any help given , sorry if this question is in the wrong area
also another thing wondering , if i buy from gift online shop plush for 2940yen(+tax) and its goin to california in total how much $$ might it cost about ? the thing with the tax and it being jp got me tad confused > >
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You need look no further than the Church of Latter Day Yukkuris (http://shii.org/yukkuri/) for answers to any yukkuri-related question.
:o
I am undone.
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Plush resales and how much and all that.
Hmm, I don't know if the tag will say, but if you can post an image of the tag (scan it or photo shoot) I may be able to help (if its in Japanese).
Also, concidering the gift thing 2940 Yen with current exchange rate and taxes will be roughly $32.86 U.S.D.
From there on it matters on how you plan to get it sent and how heavy the items will be.
Can you tell the specifics of the shipment/online shop?
In some cases it might be cheaper to get it sent over by another company. (Say for example Tenso which allows you to get the item sent to a warehouse in Japan and ships that to outer seas, I found this to be better than some services that amazon.jp provide depending on how much I buy)
...Although all my past experiences with such companies have been with heavy books and not with something as light as a plushy...
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this is the tag http://i41.tinypic.com/v3d1qr.jpg
i wanted to get remilia plush , i was looking at http://giftshop.jz.shopserve.jp/
one the thing i was just wondering about the price was that it has tax and i havent bought stuff from japan before so i wasent sure if the tax would be like 8% or something else :/ ,,
the one thing i was woundering with the original vs resale was the site says resales have different material so i was looking at images of plushies but most looked same besides some plush looked like different material but all pics of that plush had the same difference , is strange :/ , only thing i can think is that my plush has real soft fabric for the hair and some pics the plush looks like it has a rougher less quality fabric ,, its like this pic of a reimu the pic shows the soft thick fabric http://bit.ly/akNARA and on this remilia it looks different to me http://bit.ly/bAwpUA , so it is different or im just a crazy person what is highly possible ,, just sorta trying figure out differences so i know if i should just go to a site and buy a resale remilia and pay like 35$ or if i should go try and find a original version and pay like 65$ i prefer higher quality model but if the difference is vary minor i could deal
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tax rate in japan=5% less you're getting alcohol.
Since on the tag it didn't say anything...
guess the rest is up to you...
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hmm , okay ,
well thanks
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yeah... i was wondering if there is any place or any mail or any way (besides kidnaping him at reitaisai) when you can talk him directly :)
anyone knows?
oh... the same about iosys... any way to contact them?
Gao~!
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yeah... i was wondering if there is any place or any mail or any way (besides kidnaping him at reitaisai) when you can talk him directly :)
anyone knows?
oh... the same about iosys... any way to contact them?
Gao~!
In English? Or Japanese?
He gets lots of fan-mail, so you can mail him. I think Letty sent him a letter once, I don't remember if it was in English, or if he had it translated. But he got no response as far as I know.
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I'm going to question why you would be attempting to email both ZUN, and IoSYS of all things. Is this for something important or is it just "OMG ILU GUYS AHVE MAH BEBIES <3333333".
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yeah... i was wondering if there is any place or any mail or any way (besides kidnaping him at reitaisai) when you can talk him directly :)
anyone knows?
Mail and email they get lots of so the chances of yours getting through is close to nil.
(Especially if its about how one loves him or if its hate mail)
If you know as much that he's going to show up on Reitaisai or Comicket, why not go there in person and give him the letter in person with a can of beer or something?
... BTW am I the only one thinking that there should be something done about these kinds of questions?
(Like how can I contact ZUN, will he understand English... yada, yada)
Since I'm feeling every once in a while we're getting this type of question, redundant stuff happens...
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... BTW am I the only one thinking that there should be something done about these kinds of questions?
(Like how can I contact ZUN, will he understand English... yada, yada)
Since I'm feeling every once in a while we're getting this type of question, redundant stuff happens...
Aside from encouraging people to look back some pages to see if their question has already been answered, and check a couple pages back in the forum? Nothing really. You're always going to get people that missed a discussion or weren't here at the time, or something.
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It's the kind of question that's been asked before, and will likely get asked again. The only solution would be some kind of Touhou FAQ thread, but I'm really not willing to expend the effort. People here are always polite enough to answer questions that have been asked before. Even Drake, who is apparently ZUN's press agent.
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Haha, not really. I've only sent ZUN one email before, and that was in regards to music (which received no reply anyways). I'm only wondering because in all honesty sending him fanmail is reeeeally just a hassle because somebody has to translate. If it ends up being something he gets every day then I don't really see why the effort is needed to go to a new forum, ask them how to contact him, then either send him broken japanese or make him translate/throw away an english e-mail. Not trying to be mean, I'm just curious why they would bother asking.
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What's the name of the Reimu/Yukari doujin where Yukari asks Reimu how she feels about her. Reimu says she hates Yukari and Yukari was fine with that. She says something about 'even if it's feelings of hatred, keep me in your heart'.
Edit: nevermind, found it
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what would u say is best place to buy touhou plush ? most on ebay are like 70-80$ seem expensive
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I know that Elly use to be a gaurd for Yuka but after touhou 4, Elly is never seen again. So... What happened to her?(Any answer funny or tragic would be awesome)
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Have you ever seen Yuuka in her mansion after LLS?(I can edit my posts too)
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Watching the anime To Aru Majutsu no Index.' This episode is called 'Accelerator One-Way Road,' which is awfully like fan-made Mitori's theme, 'The Kappa Way as Said ～ One'-way Accelerator.'
Was this intentional, or just a cool coincidence?
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Rather than a reference to the episode, it's a reference to Accelerator. Accelerator and Mitori's abilities are somewhat similar, so yeah most likely.
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About Mokou and Kaguya's immortality... I've read that they also have regeneration abilities. So if you, for example, cut off their arms, will they regrow a new arm or what? How does their immortality work when it comes to getting blown/torn/shredded/chopped into pieces?
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How does their immortality work when it comes to getting blown/torn/shredded/chopped into pieces?
Judging purely by the look in the game, either the pieces attract each other until the body is pulled together again or they simply 'splode into existence anew.
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About Mokou and Kaguya's immortality... I've read that they also have regeneration abilities. So if you, for example, cut off their arms, will they regrow a new arm or what? How does their immortality work when it comes to getting blown/torn/shredded/chopped into pieces?
Apparently even if you disintegrate them to the last piece of hair, they'd regenerate from the hair. Even if you destroy everything material there is to destroy about them, they'd regenerate from where their souls are.
So... even if you sever a few limbs, a neck, a head or any kind of what ever, they'd regrow it like a salamander's tail.
...Or so I'm guessing.
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I think the question is, if you merely cut off an arm, what happens to the arm? (My guess is it either floats over to rejoin their body or disintegrates somehow. It'd be less gruesome than having a bunch of severed arms lounging around ...)
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K my fault for not keeping it simple.
they'd regrow it like a salamander's tail.
Therefore I'm guessing you have severed limbs and stuff lying around the place.
It'll provide useful for Youkai that crave human. :)
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I feel pretty pathetic for asking this, but this has been dwelling in my mind for some time now - Just what is clip-death?
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I believe it is when a bullet passes you, but the bullet was just a few pixels closer than you expected, and you die from "clipping" the edge of the bullet's hitbox
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I feel pretty pathetic for asking this, but ...
Don't. People learn stuff by asking questions, and everyone here started their fandom knowing very little about Touhou. This goes for everybody: never feel your question is stupid, or that people will mock you for not knowing something. Just ask away! That's what this thread is for.
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Does anybody know how to contact White Canvas? they have some stuff I want that's not in stock anywhere else, but the email address they give for international orders returns an error. It seems they gave .com instead of .jp but sending it to that address; I still have no reply.
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Tengukami is right. As the title said: "LOOK HERE OR DIE". So by posting your question you just saved dozens of lives as well as your own.
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Does anybody know how to contact White Canvas? they have some stuff I want that's not in stock anywhere else, but the email address they give for international orders returns an error. It seems they gave .com instead of .jp but sending it to that address; I still have no reply.
hi (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=566.0)
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Someone from Wikianswers claims that some of the girls have boyfriends and that ZUN had officially stated this before. Is this true?
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Nope. At most, the narration in Cage in Lunatic Runagate (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate) states that the Watatsuki sisters are married to relatives of Eirin. But we never see them; I've sort of assumed that marriage on the Moon is arranged by others and primarily for political reasons and maybe perfunctory reproduction. (This also explains a lot about the whole deal with Kaguya ... but I'm going off on a tangent now.)
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Someone from Wikianswers claims that some of the girls have boyfriends and that ZUN had officially stated this before. Is this true?
He only states that there are actually guys and it isn't just a world filled with beautiful girls.
Otherwise if you check out some of the gods that the characters are based off, the origins of some of them are married.-but it doesn't mean that the character is.
(Sanae is a descendant of Suwako, but gods don't really need guys to make children and minor deities...)
So, no. nobody officially has a boyfriend or a lover or whatnot.
Rinnosuke? Forget it, he's a flag breaker.
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Rinnosuke? Forget it, he's a flag breaker.
OK, let me add a question of my own.
What's a flag breaker?
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Does anybody know how to contact White Canvas? they have some stuff I want that's not in stock anywhere else, but the email address they give for international orders returns an error. It seems they gave .com instead of .jp but sending it to that address; I still have no reply.
No answer/ ;9
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No answer/ ;9
Look at the monitor. Now look at your keyboard. Now back to the monitor (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=3947.msg344044#msg344044).
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I've asked this question before on Wikianswers, but I'm not sure if I've got a satisfying enough answer, so I'll ask again over here.
Which site has the more accurate names for the spell cards in Touhou 10.5 and 12.3 Touhou Wiki or Touhou Hisoutensoku Wiki?
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OK, let me add a question of my own.
What's a flag breaker?
Afaik (correct me if wrong) Often used in anime/manga/doujin with boys/girls. The person has "raised a flag". >> Has shown an behaviour / stance that can be used to flirt , approach, engage with. I think.
Rinnosuke flag breaker > probably Rinnosuke not interested making bolt comments which breaks the girls flirt? (Reminds me of that 4koma on danbooru)
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Okay, in regard to the my question about boyfriends... This is one of the things that he said:
"It has been said that ZUN has stated several touhous do in fact have boyfriends, they just aren't important enough to have been mentioned. Also a comment by Reimu in silent sinner in blue has an implication of her interests. "
Okay, I've read Silent Sinner in Blue before, but I don't remember Reimu saying anything like that. Can someone please fill me in?
However, it would be better if someone answer my question regarding spell card names first ...
Thanks in advance!
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hi (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=566.0)
Are you just generally saying hi or do you know how to contact White Canvas?
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Are you just generally saying hi or do you know how to contact White Canvas?
He means "click on the link in that post which leads you to an easier way of getting that stuff"
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Ah yeah. Links don't show up well in this forum. White Canvas is meant to ship internationally themselves if you contact them, but their email address bounces back. I tried chaning it to .co.jp and it went through but no response.
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OK, let me add a question of my own.
What's a flag breaker?
Afaik (correct me if wrong) Often used in anime/manga/doujin with boys/girls. The person has "raised a flag". >> Has shown an behaviour / stance that can be used to flirt , approach, engage with. I think.
Rinnosuke flag breaker > probably Rinnosuke not interested making bolt comments which breaks the girls flirt? (Reminds me of that 4koma on danbooru)
I think 80% there. Since it comes from game terminology, when someone raises a "flag" they've fulfilled a certain requirement to go to a certain route in the game, whether it be flirting with girls, or death. (This flag is called the "death flag" and has the same meaning as "marked for death".)
...Although Rinnosuke experiences countless flags in Curiosity of Lotus Asia, he goes on and breaks all of those flags put up in various ways. Thus he receives the title of "flag breaker" by many fans (Or possibly many Japanese fans in general).
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"It has been said that ZUN has stated several touhous do in fact have boyfriends, they just aren't important enough to have been mentioned. Also a comment by Reimu in silent sinner in blue has an implication of her interests. "
Okay, I've read Silent Sinner in Blue before, but I don't remember Reimu saying anything like that. Can someone please fill me in?
I know this one! Lessee, went and found it again. It's in chapter 1; Reimu is wondering what gods she should try to summon, and considers Daikoku/Ooguninushi no Mikoto, commenting, "I hear he's pretty handsome."
For whatever it's worth, though, that's also referencing earlier in the chapter, where Tewi is explaining to Reisen why the rabbits sing about that god -- "He's very handsome, and all the rabbits look up to him." (Considering that this thing also says he had seven wives and 180 children, well, I'd hope he is handsome.)
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Thanks! I'll now wait for the spell card one to be answered.
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Hmm ... I'll have to field the spellcard question to someone who actually knows Japanese.
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Thanks! I'll now wait for the spell card one to be answered.
Neither of them are perfect. I've only done a little bit of comparison between the two (just the Reimu spellcard page tbh), and neither one has translations I like strictly over the other. Though it seems to me at first glance that the ones on the Touhou Wiki are more direct/machine translations.. Most of them seem to be more or less identical, but that's where I saw the differences come up. And little differences like Orb vs Jewel.
For example, Reimu's 珠符「明珠暗投」- TouhouWiki has it as Jewel Sign "Bright Orb Cast into Shade" vs HisoutensokuWiki's Jewel Sign "Enigmatically Casted Pearl". Not sure where the 'enigmatically' comes from here and TouhouWiki's seems like the more literal translation, but there could be a connotation to '明珠暗投' that I don't know, so I can't weigh in a definite verdict on accuracy.
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I think 80% there. Since it comes from game terminology, when someone raises a "flag" they've fulfilled a certain requirement to go to a certain route in the game, whether it be flirting with girls, or death. (This flag is called the "death flag" and has the same meaning as "marked for death".)
...Although Rinnosuke experiences countless flags in Curiosity of Lotus Asia, he goes on and breaks all of those flags put up in various ways. Thus he receives the title of "flag breaker" by many fans (Or possibly many Japanese fans in general).
Couldn't word it better my self.
Rinnosuke flag raising and breaking comic example: http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/494614/4koma-blush-braid-comic-kakusei_shitauruchi-kirisa (read entire pool)
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Neither of them are perfect. I've only done a little bit of comparison between the two (just the Reimu spellcard page tbh), and neither one has translations I like strictly over the other. Though it seems to me at first glance that the ones on the Touhou Wiki are more direct/machine translations.. Most of them seem to be more or less identical, but that's where I saw the differences come up. And little differences like Orb vs Jewel.
For example, Reimu's 珠符「明珠暗投」- TouhouWiki has it as Jewel Sign "Bright Orb Cast into Shade" vs HisoutensokuWiki's Jewel Sign "Enigmatically Casted Pearl". Not sure where the 'enigmatically' comes from here and TouhouWiki's seems like the more literal translation, but there could be a connotation to '明珠暗投' that I don't know, so I can't weigh in a definite verdict on accuracy.
Yeah, Touhou Wiki uses direct translations, so it's probably the more accurate one. One example is that in Touhou Hisoutensoku Wiki, one of Meiling's move is called Searing Red Fist, but Touhou Wiki calls it Radiant Rainbow Fist (I went and made some corrections to her page in Hisoutensoku Wiki after finding out about this). As Kanji contains Chinese characters (I'm Taiwanese), I can tell that it is supposed to be Radiant Rainbow Fist. I can understand why Hisoutensoku Wiki called is Searing Red Fist, since the the Chinese pronounciation for 'Rainbow' sounds the exactly the same as 'Red', but uses a different character. 'Searing' means burning and 'Radiant' means bright... Well, things that are burning are always bright, right?
About the 'Orb' and 'Jewel' thing... The Kanji character for 'Orb' can also mean 'Jade', which is a kind of jewelry.
I asked about this because I want my current Touhou fan fiction to use as accurate attack names as possible, though I sometimes leave out the '<insert something here> Sign' on purpose if I do not find that attack amazing, powerful, or destructive enough to deserve it. I'll probably be referring to Touhou Wiki for more accurate names.
Thanks for the answering my question anyway!
EDIT: Nah, on the second thought... I'll only put in the '<insert something here> Sign' if I feel like it for certain attacks since it makes the attack names sound too long.
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Stuff about spell cards
If you guys want to put up a official request for it, put it up in the Random translations and requests thread when ever you guys are ready.
Since some of the spell card names can have some older references like novels and songs, one might also want to check out the Wiki for that.
It's a specialized Japanese Wiki about possible references called the "東方 元ネタWiki (http://www.toho-motoneta.net/)" if you want to check it out.
Its very educational :D
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It's a specialized Japanese Wiki about possible references called the "東方 元ネタWiki (http://www.toho-motoneta.net/)" if you want to check it out.
Its very educational :D
Oh, awesome. Thanks a lot! :D
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If you guys want to put up a official request for it, put it up in the Random translations and requests thread when ever you guys are ready.
Since some of the spell card names can have some older references like novels and songs, one might also want to check out the Wiki for that.
It's a specialized Japanese Wiki about possible references called the "東方 元ネタWiki (http://www.toho-motoneta.net/)" if you want to check it out.
Its very educational :D
Too bad I cannot read Japanese, and the limited Kanji/Chinese characters aren't much help either...
But thanks anyway!
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Well from my understanding of things it said there, it said that the meaning behind the 珠符「明珠暗投」 is similar to "Casting pearls before a swine".
But in this case it refers to precious jewels thrown in the dark. If nobody can see the jewels it wouldn't be much different from being thrown gravel. (It's a proper four character word)
So I guess the better translation for this one may be "Precious orbs thrown in darkness".
...Although I think people can tweak with the words a bit to make it sound a bit cooler.
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Why not just go with the figurative meaning, "Pearls Before Swine," and put an "X is the literal meaning" note on the wiki?
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Well from my understanding of things it said there, it said that the meaning behind the 珠符「明珠暗投」 is similar to "Casting pearls before a swine".
But in this case it refers to precious jewels thrown in the dark. If nobody can see the jewels it wouldn't be much different from being thrown gravel. (It's a proper four character word)
So I guess the better translation for this one may be "Precious orbs thrown in darkness".
...Although I think people can tweak with the words a bit to make it sound a bit cooler.
^This
LuckyCharat is proficient in Chinese and went through a bunch of the Hisoutensoku cards, catching the references.
Also, I'd be inclined to say the Hisoutensoku Combat Wiki (hisouten.koumakan.jp) has the most literal, useful translations. The patch localizers really flipped around a lot of cards: Nine Character Pierce vs. Nine Syllable Stabs, Secret of Kings vs. Four Devas' Arcanum. Supernova vs. Guest Stars. I think Koumakan largely ignored that (and is more accurate to the Japanese, so far as my dictionary is concerned).
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So basically, Touhou Wiki is more of direct translation while Touhou Hisoutensoku Wiki is more of localization.
Anyway, I have another question. Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Moon shows Suwako catching a fly. Does that mean she eats flies and other kinds of insects? It would be quite a sight (and hilarious) to see her eating one!
Thanks in advance!
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That didn't actually happen. Reisen just wondered if it would.
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Suwako did catch a fly with her hands. The part where the hat sticks out a tongue to catch the fly is Kaguya's imagination, and then after that, Suwako sees and catches a fly with her bare hands, much to Kaguya's disappointment.
Here's that page:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2hcdlwk.jpg
<Nobu>: Please don't hotlink images (also be mindful of the 640x480 / 480x640 image resolution limit)
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Okay, some time ago someone had this signature with Youmu rolling in pain and shouting "It hurts, it hurts - My ghost half hurts!"
I really wanted to know where this was from.
More recently, I found the doujin with that panel. I was satisfied.
Now, I can't find the doujin anymore - Perhaps I deleted it - And I can't remember for the life of me which doujin it's from.
;_;
Any help?
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Okay, some time ago someone had this signature with Youmu rolling in pain and shouting "It hurts, it hurts - My ghost half hurts!"
I really wanted to know where this was from.
Ennui Akadako - Gods are Customers
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Ah, thanks.
... Wait, I do have that one! >:0
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We all know youkai eat flesh, with human flesh as absolute delicacy.
But do youkai eat other youkai as well?
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Is Utsuho's third eye part of her body or is it simply a decoration? There seems to be no official word on this and fan arts are never consistent...
Thanks in advance!
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It's one of those many questions in Touhou that are convieniently left up in the air, and as far as I know there isn't anything official about it.
It's kind of like Quantum Continuity. It's both and neither at the same time :3
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We all know youkai eat flesh, with human flesh as absolute delicacy.
But do youkai eat other youkai as well?
I don't think it's been said they do. I assume they found eating other Youkai to basically be cannibalism, and therefore probably don't encourage it.
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However Youkai will eat sentient people without remorse and nothing says that most Youkai have any sort of fraternity with each other beyond small knit groups like the Komeji's and their pets so it's hard to say if would have problems with cannibalism. The only exception would probably be the Myouren temple group but they are influenced by Byakuren's teachings and probably don't eat people to begin with.
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However Youkai will eat sentient people without remorse and nothing says that most Youkai have any sort of fraternity with each other beyond small knit groups like the Komeji's and their pets so it's hard to say if would have problems with cannibalism. The only exception would probably be the Myouren temple group but they are influenced by Byakuren's teachings and probably don't eat people to begin with.
Well, I'm pretty sure intelligent Youkai, like Alice and Yuuka, probably don't encourage cannibalism. The savage ones, I have no idea.
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I'd think they wouldn't; just looking at basically all Terran species and you'll find very few cannibalistic species. The main reason would be because they wouldn't /need/ to eat other youkai in the first place, unless their stock of humans get depleted..
...Then they'd become cannibals, just like we would if we had nothing to eat :/
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I'd think they wouldn't; just looking at basically all Terran species and you'll find very few cannibalistic species. The main reason would be because they wouldn't /need/ to eat other youkai in the first place, unless their stock of humans get depleted..
...Then they'd become cannibals, just like we would if we had nothing to eat :/
Thing about that is, "youkai" seems to mean "anything not-human." It's not cannibalism if a human eats, say, a gorilla.
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The lack of alliances, if that's even true, also proves nothing. Even utterly solitary species of animals don't engage in cannibalism.
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I'm not even sure most youkai flesh would be edible for other youkai to eat. Eating Kogasa would be either the equivalent of either eating a ghost or of eating an umbrella. Neither of which is very digestible to most species (well, there are some ghost-eaters out there in modern stories, but...)
Beast Youkai are probably similar to beasts, so anyone can eat them, I imagine. It's probably discouraged, though (and then it begs the question, if they DO get eaten, do they get better afterwards? A la the mysterious Yuyuko Mystia scenario). Like-wise, magician youkai are probably similar to magician humans, physically, and thus fully digestible (at least, human-turned magicians. Dunno about borned ones, but they're stated to be physically similar too).
It should be noted that different youkai have different digestive systems. Remilia feeds purely on blood (and probably is unable to eat youkai. I'm not sure if she's even capable of digesting beast blood) while Kogasa eats human spirit (Her conversation with Sanae) and since her power is specifically to surprise "humans", it's unknown if it works on youkai and thus if she can eat youkai spirit. She does want to surprise Byakuren though, which means maybe her power (and Bayakuren's edibility) applies to Byakuren, but Byakuren's a magician, and again, magician youkai are probably just as edible as humans in most regards (thus probably including their spirit for spirit-eaters, as well)
Byakuren's Temple group probably doesn't engage in eating humans for the most part (Murasa seems downright confused when Sanae accuses her of bad things, and she'd probably know what Sanae was talking about if she did things like try to eat humans recently). I say "for the most part" because Nazrin possibly still does. At the very least, her mice do (several of her conversations). Shou, given her job as an avatar of Bishamon, would prrobably want to stay away from eating humans in order to avoid causing a scandal.
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while Kogasa eats human spirit (Her conversation with Sanae) and since her power is specifically to surprise "humans", it's unknown if it works on youkai and thus if she can eat youkai spirit. She does want to surprise Byakuren though, which means maybe her power (and Bayakuren's edibility) applies to Byakuren, but Byakuren's a magician, and again, magician youkai are probably just as edible as humans in most regards (thus probably including their spirit for spirit-eaters, as well)
I dunno, from the idea that I got reading that dialogue, I thought Youkai like Kogasa fed on others "fears" rather than spirits. And the fact that she's malnourished in lots of fanfics and the fact that she's bad at scaring people, I thought others thought so too. -Although yes, its only fanfic and 100% changeable.
It maybe because in that novel I was translating the other month, I read that to fear a Youkai is the rule of Gensoukyou so that both the human and Youkai are satisfied. The attacking of humans is only to get them to fear the Youkai and not solely for food purposes.
Well, that was the idea that I got at least.
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Also, personally, I think "youkai" is along the same lines as "animal" or "plant". IE, there are many different species of youkai, just as there are many different species of plant and animal. As it is not cannibalism for a tiger to eat a rabbit, it is probably not cannibalism for a ghost youkai to eat a night sparrow youkai. Of course, the fact that all of them are sentient and can speak the same language does bring around the whole "talking to your food" moral dilemma, but most youkai don't seem to care about that.
I dunno, from the idea that I got reading that dialogue, I thought Youkai like Kogasa fed on others "fears" rather than spirits. And the fact that she's malnourished in lots of fanfics and the fact that she's bad at scaring people, I thought others thought so too. -Although yes, its only fanfic and 100% changeable.
It maybe because in that novel I was translating the other month, I read that to fear a Youkai is the rule of Gensoukyou so that both the human and Youkai are satisfied. The attacking of humans is only to get them to fear the Youkai and not solely for food purposes.
Well, that was the idea that I got at least.
I was mainly going by this translation.... er... hunh. I thought it was Sanae's dialogue where Kogasa mentioned that humans can pass out if she successfully surprises them, but apparently it's just stated there that she feeds on "spirit" (which of course could be a mistranslation) in general.
*searches around a bit*
Ah, it was in Marisa's B dialogue. Now I see where I got what may have been a wrong impression:
"If anyone were even a little surprised by me,
they wouldn't be able to walk straight. "
Originally my memory thought Kogasa said this line to Sanae while talking about what she ate, which made me think she eats human spirit because that was what makes humans unable to walk straight. Turns out that she says it to Marisa instead under a different context (the days when Youkai were rulers of the night)
So yea, I'm not sure, but you're probably right.
That novel's statements makes me wonder if even the vast majority of youkai don't need to physically eat at all but can just sustain themselves off of fear (fairies and magicians don't need to physically eat and do so only for show. Fairies could very well sustain themselves from the fear caused by their pranks, but magicians probably don't need to worry about such things since IIRC they simply use magic instead)
If that's the case, it also makes me wonder if eating physically can SUBSTITUTE for eating fear, and vice-versa. Mei Ling doesn't really scare any humans these days (coments in Perfect Memento have random humans stating she even brings a friendly air to the mansion) but gets provided with human meat from her empployment as an SDM worker. Unfortunately, I can't use that to figure out if she can substitute human meat for fear because she might very well simply be a youkai that only physically eats, as there's no evidence to state if she's capable of feeding off of fear in the first place (Unless you think she's Orange, in which case, Orange did tell Marisa she was obligated to attack her because she was a youkai and it was night time)
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Nitori wears a golden key around her neck. What is the key for? What does it lock and unlock?
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Nitori wears a golden key around her neck. What is the key for? What does it lock and unlock?
It's the key to her heart.
Maybe it is the key to her secret laboratory underneath Kappa village where she is building a Super Kappa Robo to protect Gensokyo from potential giant monsters (or an utterly smashed Suika). There could be all kinds of top secret inventions and projects down there.
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My long-standing theory
that I just came up with is that Kappas have a lot of valuable and complicated equipment that is best to keep under lock and key so random people don't start tinkering with it. Or its the key to her gundam workstation or something.
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*deadpan* It is the key to the Locked Girl! Nitori x Pachouli eff tee doubleyou.
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This one's a long-shot, but everyone knows Nitori was based on the novel "Kappa" by Akutagawa Ryunosuke, right?
In another one of Akutagawa's works, there's a novel under the title "Hina", now look back at Hina's full name for it is "Kagiyama Hina".(Kagi=Key)
Now, how ironic is it that two of Akutagawa's works appear in one game, one after another? ...
...Sorry, this really was a long shot. I think my head had a big argument on whether it was Marisa X Nitori or Hina X Nitori...
Oh, and I must mention that both "Kappa" and "Hina" are beautiful pieces of literature.
...and for some reason Hina made me tear ... maybe because it sorta expressed us Touhou fans in a way...
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... I think you just blew my mind.
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If I had to put money on it, i'd go with Sabino's theory. It's not like ZUN isn't known for making literature references in the past. Medicine Melancholy? Flandre? Pfft.
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Why do youkai actually obey the Hakurei System? When you're an even match for a human in a fair fight (On their terms, no less!), why not just blow their heads off in an unfair one?
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Because you would invite a world of pain upon yourself.
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Why do youkai actually obey the Hakurei System? When you're an even match for a human in a fair fight (On their terms, no less!), why not just blow their heads off in an unfair one?
Rules to keep the balance and each other alive, and if one chooses to oppose... the shrine maiden with no hit box will be after their guts.
The recent chapters of Silent Sinner in Blue mentions it.
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Do you mean Cage in Lunatic Runagate?
Sadly, we don't get to see many youkais' own personal views regarding the matter. If I recall correctly, even in the games, a lot of the youkai barely acknowledge Reimu as a shrine maiden at all, except when being snarky.
Still, they're firmly aware of the "rules" and the necescity of having a Hakurei Shrine Maiden around, I'm sure (Aya mentions in SSiB that if Reimu doesn't return from the moon, they're going to have to get a new shrine maiden).
Honestly, Reimu could probably beat the vast majority of the lesser ones in a no-holds barred fight, anyways. As for the more powerful ones... well, just read Yuka's section in Perfect Memento for how they tend to treat battles (in a nutshell, they establish rules and formal duels because they know that two high powered beings can fight on with each other possibly endlessly, accomplishing nothing. Considering that Reimu can float beyond reality when she isn't holding back, I imagine a no-holds barred battle of a powerful youkai vs Reimu could potentially go on for a stupidly long pointless amount of time)
Mei Ling claims in EoSD that she should have permission to eat shrine maidens, but this has to be mostly snark, since Reimu snaps at her to not even joke about such things, if I recall correctly. It does imply though that there is a rule AGAINST eating Shrine Maidens for Mei Ling to bring up permission in the first place. From this conversation, it's possible to assume Mei Ling dislikes the rule, but that's not too surprising since she either is new to Gensokyo (if she came in with the Scarlet Mansion) or rebelled against the rules (if she was in Gensokyo before Remilia came along, and then joined Remilia in the vampire incident to go against the other youkai in Gensoky. I lean towards the later)
In Present Day Gensokyo, the (implicitly devil's) contract keeps youkai from eating any resident Gensokyan humans.and that includes Reimu (outsiders might be fair game, though, which does bring to question if Sanae counts. I don't know what you have to do to make yourself get "citizenship" in Gensokyo). The Spell Card rules section of Perfect Memento has the clause where youkai can't kill humans, and Yukari mentions it specifically in one of the latest CiLR chapters, too (although it's possible Yukari's talking about the first devil contract, which forbidded Remilia from eating humans in Gensokyo and probably was extended to all youkai with that clause, since they went to QQ to Reimu aboout it later. Either way, the end result is the same)
Even before the contract, I'm sure there was a long-standing rule from the youkai sages (or at least, an understood unspoken rule) rule that youkai couldn't kill the shrine maidens, since it was pretty clear early on that shrine maidens were needed to maintain the barrier (Perfect Memento in fact implies that youkai were weak from all the restrictions on eating humans, etc, even before Remilia ever came to Gensokyo, and is likely one of the reasons Remilia was able to rampage around so easily). However, without a devil contract, it was more voluntary, so I wouldn't be surprised if a few shrine maidens throughout history met their ends at a youkai that lost control (I also wouldn't be too surprised if that youkai met a mysterious end soon after, either, probabaly hvaing to do with borders and boundaries).
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Because you would invite a world of pain upon yourself.
What world of pain? I've heard no where that breaking the SC rules instantly got everybody on you.
Sigh....I'm just pissed that I cant do the Deathwatch Arc in my fic--and it was one of the best arcs--thanks to this fucking piece of canon.
Oh, well, I guess I'll chant me motto, "Fuck Canon!" again.
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Pfft, canon. A better question is "How does someone that's been sealed since Pre-Gensokyo days not only know the spellcard rules, but has a set of spellcards prepped and ready to go the moment she becomes unsealed?" Yeah, i'm looking at you, Byakuren.
I don't hold it against her or anything, but I think the point to be taken from this is 'These things were not meant to be looked into too deeply. If you are planning on doing otherwise, be prepared to explain/rationalize/change things."
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Pfft, canon. A better question is "How does someone that's been sealed since Pre-Gensokyo days not only know the spellcard rules, but has a set of spellcards prepped and ready to go the moment she becomes unsealed?" Yeah, i'm looking at you, Byakuren.
I don't hold it against her or anything, but I think the point to be taken from this is 'These things were not meant to be looked into too deeply. If you are planning on doing otherwise, be prepared to explain/rationalize/change things."
I wondered this myself when I was kicking her ass the other day...
Then again, it wouldn't make sense to have her shooting off PC98 "waves" of attacks...so bleh.
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What world of pain? I've heard no where that breaking the SC rules instantly got everybody on you.
It's sort of implied in the fact that there are rules, and everyone follows them, and what normally happens to youkai who so much as get in the way of a shrine maiden, let alone break one of the fundamental laws of Gensokyo.
Sigh....I'm just pissed that I cant do the Deathwatch Arc in my fic--and it was one of the best arcs--thanks to this fucking piece of canon.
Oh, well, I guess I'll chant me motto, "Fuck Canon!" again.
Whoah. You write fiction? I don't believe you've ever mentioned that before.
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Weird question: why does every fan artist draw Yuugi with giant breasts? I mean, I know they draw everyone like that occasionally, but Yuugi seems to always have them oversized...
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I think it's because women that are muscular/tall/large in stature tend to get large breasts to compensate for the otherwise masculinating features. If Yuugi was flatchested or smallchested, she'd practically be a Brohou. :x
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If I'm not wrong, there's one semi-official promo artwork of yuugi in a kimono (or whatever, can't really rmb, not done by ZUN), and I think that's where it came from.
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If I'm not wrong, there's one semi-official promo artwork of yuugi in a kimono (or whatever, can't really rmb, not done by ZUN), and I think that's where it came from.
uh
[nsfw]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3388/7b2be92d17e4391ec128e20.jpg[/nsfw]?
alphes
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I KNEW it was alphes, his art style was so familiar to the one used in UFO. Just needed someone to confirm. Anyway Azure, there you go.
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Whoah. You write fiction? I don't believe you've ever mentioned that before.
Sigh....okay, so I barely ever put my stuff out on the internet, but I do write. I'm in the process of writing my own orginal fiction series right now.
....I mean, you do know I write, don't you? Becasue you did talk to me in the writer's palour....
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Sigh....okay, so I barely ever put my stuff out on the internet, but I do write. I'm in the process of writing my own orginal fiction series right now.
....I mean, you do know I write, don't you? Becasue you did talk to me in the writer's palour....
I believe it was a sarcastic remark meant to imply that you should stop flaunting your fiction around so much, as it can get a little annoying.
In which case I'd agree. No hard feelings, it's just a little, well, annoying. :derp:
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*facepalm*
Derp.
And I'm known as a king of sarcasm in real life. I should've picked up the clues.
Well, sarcasm doesn't particulary carry well over the internet.
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What world of pain? I've heard no where that breaking the SC rules instantly got everybody on you.
Sigh....I'm just pissed that I cant do the Deathwatch Arc in my fic--and it was one of the best arcs--thanks to this fucking piece of canon.
Oh, well, I guess I'll chant me motto, "Fuck Canon!" again.
Well, it's your fic. If you really want to apply canon to it instead of ignore canon, just write an excuse that allows the death match to happen. Like... I dunno, a holy exorcism that destroys the contract and a special reinforcing of the barrier (or perhaps the complete destruction of the barrier instead) which makes the Hakurei Shrine maiden fair and open game. You suddenly have one side that wants to do everything they can to keep the status quo and re-make the barrrier, while the other side is sick of Reimu and sick of the rules and thus do everything they can to retain the new situation that doesn't need a shrine maiden. And Ta-Da! The stage is set for your death match!
Disclaimer: I take no responsibility or give any assurances for whether or not my above example is actually plausible.
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Well, it's your fic. If you really want to apply canon to it instead of ignore canon, just write an excuse that allows the death match to happen. Like... I dunno, a holy exorcism that destroys the contract and a special reinforcing of the barrier (or perhaps the complete destruction of the barrier instead) which makes the Hakurei Shrine maiden fair and open game. You suddenly have one side that wants to do everything they can to keep the status quo and re-make the barrrier, while the other side is sick of Reimu and sick of the rules and thus do everything they can to retain the new situation that doesn't need a shrine maiden. And Ta-Da! The stage is set for your death match!
Disclaimer: I take no responsibility or give any assurances for whether or not my above example is actually plausible.
Yeah, the whole point of arc was that the various characters of Touhou competed in a sadistic game show called Deathwatch, from the game Mad World (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadWorld) (tv tropes link), though it wasn't actually a crossover with the game, and it simply took place on another gensokyo that hosted basically the same game show. Since the whole point of any Deathwatch fight is violently murder your opponent while still staying alive yourself, it pretty much allowed everyone to go crazy with the violence.
(If you're wondering why the hell the touhou girls would ever compete in something like that, it was because if my OC's--specifically one named Jack, who is based off Jack from the game. There are a huge amount of Mad World references in my fic, actually)
....Whew. On topic, do multiple Gensokyo's actually exist? In my fic, Deathwatch takes place in different Gensokyo from the canon one, and that one (the deathwatch one) was taken over by another Genso full of rich bastards/terrorists who took over the place and installed DWbecause they were bored.....
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On topic, do multiple Gensokyo's actually exist? In my fic, Deathwatch takes place in a different Gensokyo from the canon one, and that one (the deathwatch one) was taken over by another Genso full of rich bastards/terrorists who took over the place and installed DWbecause they were bored.....
Multiple Gensokyo's as in...like reverse/bizarro worlds born of Time Paradoxes and other temporal anamolies?
There really isn't anything hinting different 'Gensokyos' in any form of ZUN works or the like, so I doubt there are such a thing. Although I do have a (crackpot) theory stating that if there are multiple universes that contain 'other' Earths, then a 'reverse' Genoksyo could exist. I wouldn't hold this in high regard though...this is really just me thinking way too much on the matter...
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Multiple Gensokyo's as in...like reverse/bizarro worlds born of Time Paradoxes and other temporal anamolies?
There really isn't anything hinting different 'Gensokyos' in any form of ZUN works or the like, so I doubt there are such a thing. Although I do have a (crackpot) theory stating that if there are multiple universes that contain another Earth, then a 'reverse' Genoksyo could exist. I wouldn't hold this in high regard though...this is really just me thinking way too much on the matter...
Actually I had the revers gensokyo idea as well. I call it N-Gensokyo, for "Nega Gensokyo". Unlike the canon one, N-Genso is basically supposed to be like America, more specifically, Los Angeles and New York somehow mixed with Tokyo. Its level of technology is around ours, enough to the point where they have cars, computers, cell phones, etc..... It's supposed to be a boring place, compared to the canon genso, with all the inhabitants just being normal people/youkai.
Some say you can hear illegal street racing at night....they don't know much, but some have heard that a girl runs a street racing club....a club of all girls, run by someone who calls herself Reimu Hakurei.....
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....Whew. On topic, do multiple Gensokyo's actually exist? In my fic, Deathwatch takes place in different Gensokyo from the canon one, and that one (the deathwatch one) was taken over by another Genso full of rich bastards/terrorists who took over the place and installed DWbecause they were bored.....
I personally believe there is more than one Gensokyo. Not alternate universe versions, but lands that are like Gensokyo: hidden, magical sanctuaries inhabited by mythical creatures from that region. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that the Japanese youkai sages were the only ones to come up with the idea of a sanctuary. There have to be similar lands across the world that house the last bits of magic and faith. And what about European, Middle-Eastern and American mythical beings? I doubt they can travel all the way to Japan by themselves, with the exception of the ludicrously powerful ones like Remilia. Greek Gods would probably prefer to stay in their own region anyway. To survive they'll need to build their own Gensokyos. So my guess is that there is a Gensokyo in Greece or Denmark (many fairy tales originate from Denmark), housing western dragons and fairies, ogres, giants, Greek monsters and gods, elves, dwarfs etc., a Gensokyo in Egypt holding the Egyptian Gods, djinns, rocs etc. and a Gensokyo in Mexico inhabited by chupacabras, Aztec gods, undead and the like.
Of course, this is just a theory, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was revealed there was more than one Gensokyo. The Lunarians built their own world too, so I think it is possible there are more magical worlds and lands. Some could live in their own dimensions a la Makai (maybe YHWH and Satan do that?).
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I remember reading in a doujin, that Gensokyo was only one of the few "Utopias" in the world, along side Shangri-La, Atlantis, etc etc. In essence, they were spread around the world, each utopia a haven for phantasms.
If anyone is interested, it's the Yukari Vs Ran series from Tohonifun.
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Yeah ... I figure Yukari can't be the only one who decided to create some sort of sealed-away reality. I figure there's probably, say, a sealed-away Transylvania as well, maybe some Native-American Spirit-World ...
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I have a few questions:
-If Kaguya can manipulate eternity and instantaneous then can't she just blow up something 'immortal' and use her powers on that particular object so it stays like that forever?
-Can Aya manipulate wind without her fan?
-I know this has been asked before, but heck. Why is exactly Shikieiki so powerful? Apart from that story ZUN wrote, I can't seem to find anymore reason to why she's so strong. Can anyone please specify her REAL powers? :)
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1. I'm assuming it's because the Hourai elixir supersedes stuff like that.
2. I'm pretty sure there's nothing canonically stated one way or the other.
3. Her powers are "seeing morality in black and white," "sending someone to the afterlife she judges to be the correct one" (unless you want to go the Discworld route and do something like, she shows them the morality of their entire lives and they end up going to whatever afterlife they believe they should go to), and "danmaku." Anything else is a power-level discussion, which are verboten around here.
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Shiki's rod gets heavier depending on the sins of the person she's smacking with it. So presumably, she'd have to be pretty powerful since I'm sure over the course of her long life span, she's run into quite a few nasty sinners.
Of course, that's more HOW she's powerful than WHY, I suppose.
The question of WHY she's so powerful? Um... a wizard did it. (well, really, some beings are just born powerful. Like Onis. I guess Yama are the same).
It should be noted that Akyu specifically states that Perfect Memento's contents are arranged in order of "threat" level, and "Yama" is at the very bottom.
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Here's something I've been wondering for a good long while...
"Just how big is Kikuri?"
I say this because her title is Hell MOON and makes me believe that she's just as big as one, or at least larger than the average sized human by far. Then again, why am I even saying this here. Anything involving PC98 is in the air anyway :V
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Another question: Can Youkai be born? That is, have two parents who have sex and then the female gives birth. I take the stance that they do, and that a youkai who was born rather than just come into existence is much more pwerful than normal. But I still wonder whether canon, or even Japanese Mythology says so.
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Another question: Can Youkai be born? That is, have two parents who have sex and then the female gives birth. I take the stance that they do, and that a youkai who was born rather than just come into existence is much more pwerful than normal. But I still wonder whether canon, or even Japanese Mythology says so.
I haven't read it, but I recall one chapter of one of the official printed works revolving around a youkai egg, so yeah...
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Another question: Can Youkai be born? That is, have two parents who have sex and then the female gives birth. I take the stance that they do, and that a youkai who was born rather than just come into existence is much more pwerful than normal. But I still wonder whether canon, or even Japanese Mythology says so.
Depends what kind of Youkai you're talking about.
1. Youkais that originates from objects.
Take Kogasa for an example, her origin is said to be a tsukumogami of an umbrella. A tsukumogami is a type of Youkai that results to an object that has lasted for 99 years and becomes a Youkai on the hundredth year. These type of Youkai will probably not need any kind of asexual reproduction since they emerge almost naturally.
2. Youkais by birth and race
Taking the example of Youkais like Suika and Yuugi are Youkais that are so by race. The origins to these inhuman populations are many but the two most prominent theories on Onis are; spirits that originated from godly guardians but were later mixed with other beliefs and came to be known as devil like beings, and the theory that they were actually people of Caucasian decent that have landed ashore on Japan. (There are many records about people of European and Russian origin living in japan. They seemed either red or blue from their more translucent skin color) Interestingly, this not only works for Onis but is also an legitament reason on hashi - himes (bridge princesses) like Parsee. By knowing these origins, its quite possible that these Youkai will have some sort of asexual reproduction quite similar to how humans do. (In fact there is a Japanese folklore of a man that had an Oni for a wife and had Oni childrens.)
This explanation may also go for other races of Youkai that are based off other living things... such as rabbits, birds, cats, mouses, or foxes.
3. Gods
Japanese gods have many children... this is partly because they can make minor deities/children by mating like humans, or just popping them out from very random things. In myths minor deities had emerged from the tears, blood, and even the water that the gods used to wash themselves with.
...Meaning anything can happen with gods, this may go for Youkai that have become closer to gods than they are Youkai, but that may only depend on perspective.
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Tengu are almost confirmed to lay eggs (or at least, a character wondered if an egg was a tengu egg, and thus odds are pretty good it's possible. This was in Oriental Sacred Place)
Likewise, beast youkai probably are able to reproduce... maybe sorta... hmm.
I doubt that tsukumogami or ghosts have any sort of sexual reproduction, though.
Vampires are nearly confirmed to reproduce by turning others (Remilia's EoSD profile), although whether or not they can also reproduce sexually is unknown (Remilia probably can't since her body stopped maturing at 10. Well, POSSIBLY, but... let's not go there)
Magicians are physically similar to humans, but there's no indication either way...
Rinnosuke is a half-youkai, but I'm unaware of if it's ever stated if he was born that way or if he became that way later (it's possible to be converted to a half youkai in your life. Remilia's PM article mentions it in the footnotes when talking about Remilia's fate changing ability)
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Stuff I agree with.
I'm going to go with Sabino on this subject.
Although on the subject of vampires reproducing, I highly doubt it they can reproduce sexually, especially in Remilia (and Flandre's) case. I only say this because Vamps are essentially undead, which (in my opinion) means you can't really have kids anymore. Plus 10 year olds aren't supposed to have kids...so yeah. If anything, you can do the act, but you won't get a vamp baby later.
The same can be applied for Ghosts and other Phantom like beings too.
I would bring up magic, but then I'd be getting into a whole 'nother can of worms.
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A while back, someone asked in this thread what Alice's true personality was. The most a lot of people (me included) could answer with was sometimes she seemed bad ass but other times she seemed really meek, and apparently this was due to her profile stating she never fought at full power and she was a coward at heart.
The main "bad ass" argument stemmed from the way she goes around beating everyone to achieve her goal and her assertiveness in IaMP and SWR. After looking through them again, however, I realized where the whole "coward at heart" part actually comes from.
It's because even though Alice goes around acting all strong and assertive with the characters she interacts with in those games, none of them are the "powerful youkai". I hope this doesn't count as a power tier discussion, because even Suika at the end of Alice's scenario officially acknowledges that Alice basically avoided all of the strongest youkai. And you can see it in the games, too. She fights Sakuya, but actually says to herself, "I don't want to run into the mistress." She takes on Youmu, but never continues on to fight Yuyuko. By the time she reaches Suika in IaMP, Suika flat out says to her face something along the lines of "Why are you trying to investigate me if you keep avoiding all the strongest guys who probably know what's going on, the most?"
In Suika's scenario, Suika tells Alice that at the party, Alice only hangs around the humans (who, according to Yukari, are the ones who are supposed to be scared) instead of the youkai (who are the ones that are supposed to be doing the scaring). This is despite the fact that Alice herself is aknowledged to be a youkai by everyone (including herself) whenever the issue comes up (which is pretty often in the games)
So basically, Alice can be entirely assertive and quite confident when dealing with other humans and with weaker youkai, but actively goes out of her way to avoid the big names. Given the role of youkai and humans in Gensokyo, it's actually kinda interesting in that she's a youkai but takes on more human traits (fear of youkai, takes it upon herself to try to solve incidents that are a human's job, works for a living according to Perfect Memento, etc. Course, the latter is something most magician youkai do to get funds for research anyways but it's still a very human trait). Of course, Perfect Memento explains that easily by saying she only recently became a youkai and was originally human (assuming PM is telling the truth, of course), but I digress.
Anyways, that's probably one of the aspects of the whole "coward at heart" thing in her profiles is talking about, I imagine.
Off topic tangent: There is one exception in IaMP. Alice goes against Yukari. However, there are several possible reasons (and unlimited speculations) why Alice doesn't particularly fear Yukari. We already know that the two are acquainted enough that Yukari is willing to cell-phonicize Alice's dolls in SA. Also, Alice's dialogue with IaMP indicates she and Yukari have known each other since before that game (hence the infinite possible speculations as to why she wouldn't particularly fear Yukari).
(My own personal speculation: Despite only becoming a youkai recently, Alice is very versed in the roles a youkai should play, even if she's not doing a very good job at playing a youkai role, herself. She makes it very clear which jobs a human is supposed to do, and she's knowledgeable about other youkai matters too. Alice is apparently aware of the centuries (if not millenia) old agreement the youkai made with the oni for SA, despite the fact that Alice herself only recently became a youkai (by contrast, another newcomer to Gensokyo youkai matters, Patchouli, was not aware of this agreement and Yukari had to point it out to her. Before then, Patchouli only knew that it was hard for youkai to go down there, and she got that from researching her books). In fact, looking at her diallogue in that game, Alice even already knows about the ancient city in there. My own suspicious is that, at the very least, Yukari was an important source of information on youkai matters for Alice. IE, Alice went to consult the youkai sage about how to be a youkai, which is how Alice got all that information. Of course, that's "at the very least". It could possibly extend further (IE, as far as Yukari even being Alice's youkai mentor), but there's no way to know for sure. The extent could be nearly limitless, though, depending on how much Alice commenting that Yukari was a troubled soul was snark, and how much of it was because Alice could know enough of Yukari's past to know Yukari possibly really IS a troubled soul. At any rate, it's still enough that Alice would be able to psychologically talk with Yukari on a more casual level, as opposed to doing whatever she can to avoid Yukari like she does other strong youkai.
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Pfft, canon. A better question is "How does someone that's been sealed since Pre-Gensokyo days not only know the spellcard rules, but has a set of spellcards prepped and ready to go the moment she becomes unsealed?" Yeah, i'm looking at you, Byakuren.
She developed it independently. Which, I'd argue, is pretty IC given she's an magician with shit all to do and a heavily vested interest in humans and youkai getting along.
Alternately Shinki told her.
Now the real question: Who is Princess Inada and what's her beef with me, anyways?
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My own take on "how does a hijiri know what spell cards is" is that Spell Cards (in the sense of "really awesome danmaku-patterns") and possibly the Rules have always existed in some form; Reimu's just the one who popularized them and made them mandatory. So, Byakuren knew about Spell Cards, but didn't necessarily know the Rules; if [player character] hadn't beaten her, things might have gone Badly ...
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Reimu made the spell cards mandatory? Think I missed something. I thought spell cards were made an official rule in order to "defeat" the Hakurei mikos. Not just Reimu, there is nothing that keeps Youkai from destroying others under them selves, when no Hakurei Mikos are involved.
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Reimu made the spell cards mandatory? Think I missed something. I thought spell cards were made an official rule in order to "defeat" the Hakurei mikos. Not just Reimu, there is nothing that keeps Youkai from destroying others under them selves, when no Hakurei Mikos are involved.
Whoa, I think lots of us missed something...
First off the The spell card rules were created by the ancestors of Reimu, the ones who made the Hakurei Border with Yukari.
It was a way which would involve less people dieing.
...First of all, the Hakureis shouldn't get defeated because if in case the Hakureis should die, Gensoukyou falls apart since the Hakureis are the one along with Yukari and Ran that sustain the boarder.
Edit:I must learn to separate this from the boarder thing... Sorry for the misleading stuff :(
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Reimu made the spell cards mandatory? Think I missed something. I thought spell cards were made an official rule in order to "defeat" the Hakurei mikos. Not just Reimu, there is nothing that keeps Youkai from destroying others under them selves, when no Hakurei Mikos are involved.
Well, it's implied that another youkai (probably Yukari) was involved, but Perfect Memento makes it clear that Reimu is the 'official' author of the spellcard rules. Unless there's supposedly some 'other' shine maiden immediately before EoSD
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I'm sorry, but some things have really been bugging me.
1) The Oni and all the other "hated" Youkai fled to the underground, but when? Was it before or after the Lunar War? Did they all leave at once, or gradually?
2) Out of pure curiosity, it ever stated in canon anywhere that Keine allowed Youkai into her school?
3) Were Kaguya and Eirin on the Moon or the Earth during the Lunar War? Were they even alive?
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I'm sorry, but some things have really been bugging me.
1) The Oni and all the other "hated" Youkai fled to the underground, but when? Was it before or after the Lunar War? Did they all leave at once, or gradually?
I don't think the Oni were banished with the other Youkai underground. I get the impression that the Oni left of their own accord and various OTHER youkai were eventually banished (either before or after this, I'm not sure). Perfect Memento states that the Oni slowly vanished over a few hundred years, and were basically gone by the time the border went up (1884) As for the general banishment underground, and the agreement with the surface youkai not to interfere, I don't think canon is specific with any dates on this, but I would assume it was considerably more recent than the original lunar invasion.
2) Out of pure curiosity, it ever stated in canon anywhere that Keine allowed Youkai into her school?
Well, in Aya's interview with Keine, she actually says that she doesn't want to open her school to Youkai.
3) Were Kaguya and Eirin on the Moon or the Earth during the Lunar War? Were they even alive?[/size]
Kaguya is something around at least 1300 years old, and Eirin is even older. I'm pretty sure both of them were on Earth at the time of the original lunar invasion.
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The spell card rules were "officialized" after the "vampire incident" by the "the shrine maiden", and "it's said" the very first time they were put into use was during EoSD.
This means that likely, "the shrine maiden" was Reimu. After all, if it was one of Reimu's ancestors, then why on earth was it not used until EoSD?
This is, of course, assuming that Perfect Memento's translation is correct. This also assumes that "it's said" is correct. There are hints and pieces here and there that a lot of the "it's said" moments in Perfect Memento are things that Yukari told Akyu, and Yukari could very well be lying. And if it's not Yukari who is the "it's" in "it's said" in this case, then whoever the "it's" is could be wrong as well.
...assuming that the Japanese language actually differentiates "it's said", etc., and that's not just flower translation text.
I'm pretty sure the "shrine maiden" is Reimu, tho. Perfect Memento is the first edition of the Gensokyo Chronicles for Gensokyo's golden age, and it's implied that its the spell card rules that brought about that golden age according to PCB's prologue (unreliable narrator-ish as it officially is stated to be by ZUN) because "anyone can duel each other whenever they want" (or whatever it was). And it's hard to imagine WHY Akyu would include "The Vampire Incident" in Reimu's section if Reimu wasn't involved, somehow (ignoring the mistranslation that Reimu was the one who beat the vampire(s). It was "powerful youkai" who did in the Japanese text)
That said, danmaku play and the idea of dueling using rules was around long before the spell card rules. From Yuka's Perfect Memento section:
"However, when ones with power clash, both sides are aware that it can't possibly be settled.
To counter this, before the battle, rules are decided and a formal battle often takes place.
By fighting with these rules, even if one could continue after losing, they must admit their loss.
Once that is done, the other side will not pursue it further.
That is the wisdom of youkai who have lived long."
and
"If you come across this youkai battling with someone else, do not get yourself involved.
However, these fights are based on certain rules, so as long as you do not disturb the fight, she'll be polite.
If you can keep enough distance from the fight, it's also a good idea to watch the show.
Battles of non-humans are full of breathtaking beauty."
As you can see, the above descriptions match the spirit of the spell card rules. They are rules decided on before the fight, and you have to admit defeat at the end even if you can keep going. The latter is stated in the draft of the spell card rules in Perfect Memento.
Those quotes from Yuka's PM section do not state that the battles were done with danmaku. However, the latter one does state that the battles are beautiful, and beauty is one of the first things mentioned in the original draft of the spell card rules. And given that there likely is not much beauty in Yuka's other choice of battle (pounding you to oblivion with her fists, I imagine), these youkai battles with pre-set rules were thus likely done with danmaku.
So it is wholly possible for Byakuren to be able to participate in some form of danmaku duel, although it's a bit harder to swallow or explain how she knew of spell cards SPECIFICALLY.
The spell card rules themselves are stated to be written on a "youkai" contract. Given that they were written in response to the vampire incident, it is a reasonable assumption that that is a devil's contract, and thus unbreakable and quite mandatory. It's not 100% certain that this is the case, but again, it's a reasonable assumption, I think.
And yes, "the shrine maiden" was the one that officialize them, but Akyu believes the original rules were actually written by a youkai (Yukari being the most likely candidate since she wrote a book on vampire contracts, espouses the "beauty and thought" described in the original spell card draft, is known to make allowances for weaker opponents, and is always doing string pulling like that for Gensokyo, although given Perfect Memento's details of duels in Yuka's section, Yuka is also a possibility. The "ultimate magic" that Yuka received from the PC98 games is unknown but ZUN says it's "danmaku related")
I don't think the Oni were banished with the other Youkai underground.
Yea, one of the conversations in SA (I think it was Nitori to Marisa) has Nitori tell Marisa that the underground consists both of youkai who were banished there, and those who came of their own accord. Oni are definately the latter (as stated in Perfect Memento. Yuugi herself describes it as a deal they made with the youkai sages)
3) Were Kaguya and Eirin on the Moon or the Earth during the Lunar War? Were they even alive?
Kaguya and Eirin were exiled to the moon around 1,300 years ago (it was definately before 1,000 years ago, as Toyohime mentions in CiLR that she was gone by the time that fisherman was sent back to earth, which was before them)
The lunar war was 1,000 years ago. So yea, Kaguya and Eirin were gone by then.
After the Lunar War, now knowing about Yukari's ability, Eirin set up a trap for Yukari, but she had to do this from Earth. It is implied that Eirin had to send the Watatsuki sisters a letter from earth in order to set up the trap that would later trap Yukari later in SSiB (Toyohime says it's been more than 1,000 years since they last received a letter from Eirin, and reveals later that the trap was set by Eirin, so you can put two and two together and...).
...First of all, the Hakureis shouldn't get defeated because if in case the Hakureis should die, Gensoukyou falls apart since the Hakureis are the one along with Yukari and Ran that sustain the boarder.
I actually suspect this is a pseudo lie perpetrated by Yukari. Aya makes it clear in Silent Sinner in Blue that if the Hakurei Shrine maiden were to suddenly dissappear, they can just get a new one. I doubt Aya knows HOW they'll get a new one, but she overall shows no worry whatsoever about the fact that Reimu has gone to the moon and hasn't returned after an entire month+, and might be gone forever. (The exact quote is along the lines of "If she doesn't come back, we're going to have to find a new Shrine Maiden soon.")
I point the finger at Yukari because it's hard to see who else could be spreading the lie that the outside world Hakurei Shrine is deserted. Yukari's ability to travel to the outside really makes her the only authortiy on that (both Aya in BAiJR and Akyu in PM state that the shrine is SUPPOSEDLY deserted in the outside world. Or in Akyu's case, "It is said"). However, CoLA (the chapter where Rinnosuke first meets Yukari) implies that THIS IS A LIE. Rinnosuke visits a shrine on the outside world (which is probably the Hakurei Shrine... it's doubtful he was able to dream himself that far from Gensokyo) and it is actually bustling enough that he hears a lot of noise. Yukari quickly boots him out of there and back into Gensokyo fast, almost as if she's trying to hide something. (this is in the chapter where Rinnosuke first meets Yukari). She then gives Rinnosuke an EXTREMELY suspicious and strange explanation about how it was really just a musical device that made him dream wierd things (probably a lie attempting to get Rinnosuke to just forget about the whole thing, which he ends up doing)
So I think Yukari is actually lying to everyone, claiming the shrine is deserted and thus everyone must not kill the Hakurei Shrine maiden. The truth, however, is that whenever the current shrine maiden expires (via whatever means), Yukari probably just... spirits in a new one from the not-deserted Hakurei Shrine on the outside world. It's hard to imagine why else Aya (who's over 1,000 years old, IIRC) would be so casual about simply getting a new shrine maiden (though Aya herself doesn't know the details, probably, considering that even she's led to believe that the outside shrine is deserted)
As for why she'd lie about it, I'm not sure, but if I had to guess, I'd say she's lying for the shrine maiden's own protection. Imagine how much danger the shrine maiden's life would be in if youkai realized she was quite expendable.
This also conveniently explains why we never hear about Reimu's parents (of course, you could argue that ZUN simply ignores parents, but he didn't ignore Marisa's parents, at least).
ZUN himself refers to himself as Knnosuke Hakurei (Kinnosuke means "Head Priest"), and I think it was even stated in the music section of Bohemian Archive (or somewhere) that he's Kinnosuke Hakurei of the outside world's Hakurei Shrine. ....obviously, we can't take that TOO seriously, but still....
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(Kinnosuke means "Head Priest")
Actually, I think the word you're looking for is Kannushi ^^;
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I remember reading somewhere that Kaguya was 100 when she was exiled to Earth.
And I half-remember characters like Cirno and Rumia going to Keine's school at one point in Inaba of the Mearth.
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The spell card rules were "officialized" after the "vampire incident" by the "the shrine maiden", and "it's said" the very first time they were put into use was during EoSD.
This means that likely, "the shrine maiden" was Reimu. After all, if it was one of Reimu's ancestors, then why on earth was it not used until EoSD?
This is, of course, assuming that Perfect Memento's translation is correct. This also assumes that "it's said" is correct. There are hints and pieces here and there that a lot of the "it's said" moments in Perfect Memento are things that Yukari told Akyu, and Yukari could very well be lying. And if it's not Yukari who is the "it's" in "it's said" in this case, then whoever the "it's" is could be wrong as well.
...
Well, since I don't know the original article about that stuff, here's what the Japanese Wikipedia has to say about Spell cards and how they were brought to.
スペルカードルール
Spell card rule
基本的に、あらかじめ技の名前と命名しておいた名前の意味を体現した技をいくつか考えておき、それぞれの技名を契約書形式で記した契約書を任意の枚数所持しておくことになる。この契約書を「スペルカード」と呼び、カードが使われることが多いが、必ずしもカードである必要はない。技の名前が重要であり[3]、読みより名前の字が重要とされる[4]。
Basically, one thinks of the name of the technique and the thinks of an attack that express the name of the technique. They can then carry any arbitrary amount of cards that act as pacts on the technique. This pact is called the "Spell card" and although cards are most often used, there is no need for it to be cards. The name of the technique is very important and the characters used for it is more important than how its read.
対決の際には、決闘開始前に決闘内での使用回数を提示して、技を使う際には「カード宣言」をする。宣言が必要とされるため、不意打ちによる攻撃は出来ないとされる[5]。宣言の際に技の名前を言う必要はない[6]。体力が尽きるかすべての技が相手に攻略された場合は負けとなる。たとえ余力が残っていても提示した全枚数を攻略されたら、負けを認めなくてはならない。技の美しさにもウェイトがおかれていて、精神的な勝負という面がある。ガッツが尽きても負けであり、ゲームシステムで残機とされるものはガッツである。
When doing battles, one must show the amount of cards that they are going to use in the battle and when using a technique they must do a "Card declaration" Since there needs to be a declaration, it is said that one can not use it as a surprise attack. When declaring the card one does not need to say the name of the technique. One will loose when they run out of health or have all of their attacks beaten by the enemy. Even if one still has the power to fight, one must admit defeat when all the cards shown at the beginning is beaten. The attacks are weighed heavily on their beauty and is considered more of a mental battle. When one looses the will to fight (Guts) that is also seen as defeat and the lives in the game system are actually the guts left.
作中では「弾幕ごっこ」と呼ばれることもあるが、攻撃が弾に限定されることもなく、スペルカードの技が弾幕である必要もない[7]。霧雨魔理沙は伊吹萃香や比那名居天子などのスペルカードは基本弾幕じゃないと語っている[8]。精神的な生き物で、肉体的なダメージでは致命傷にならない妖怪のために作られた決闘ルールであるため、危険だから禁止という概念は少なく[9]、人間の場合は当たり所が悪ければ死ぬこともある[10]が、相手を負かした後に追い討ちをかけて殺すことは禁止されている。また霊夢や魔理沙、咲夜を始めとした自機キャラクターは、たとえBADENDになっても敵に殺害されたり捕食される事はなく、一度帰って再チャレンジを決める展開になる。妖精や精霊は異変中は強力な攻撃を仕掛けることもあるが基本的に弱小な存在で、命の概念も異なり死んでもすぐに湧いて出るので普通に倒される[11]。
In the game it's often called "Danmaku-gokko" (Bullet rain play), but the attacks are not restricted to bullet rains and they don't need to be of the sort. Kirisame Marisa tells that Ibuki Suika and Hinanai Tenshi's spell cards are generally not danmaku. This rule was originally a rule that was made for Youkai who are a very mental beings and don't get severely injured by physical damage. Thus nothing is prohibited for its dangerousness and people can die if they're hit badly, but once one is defeated the opposing side is prohibited to get additional attacks in to kill the loser. Also player characters as Reimu, Marisa and Sakuya don't get killed or eaten by the enemy even on the BADENDs and they end up returning to the beginning to challenge again. Fairies and spirits can do powerful attacks during the incident but they are generally small and weak beings and since they have different bases of death they spawn back alive even if they are killed.
またこれはスペルカードルールに限った話ではないが、妖怪は体力が桁違いであるため、決闘の際には時間制限を定めることが推奨されている[12]。
Also, since Youkai have tremendous amount of health time restrictions are often put on battles. This applies to other rules to.
導入の経緯 [編集]
How it was Brought to use
スペルカードルールが導入されるきっかけとなったのが「吸血鬼異変」と呼ばれる事件である。「吸血鬼異変」は幻想郷に現れた吸血鬼と幻想郷の妖怪達との間に起こった紛争で、吸血鬼が多くの妖怪を従えたが、最終的には最も強大な力を持った妖怪によって鎮圧された。多くの妖怪達が吸血鬼に屈服した原因のひとつに、巫女や人間を襲ってはいけなくなって食糧も供給されるようになったため妖怪たちがすっかり気力を失っていたという事情があった。
The reason on why spell cards were brought to was because of an incident called the "Vampire incident". The "Vampire incident" was a civil war that happened between the Vampires and the Youkai of the Gensoukyou. Although the vampire subdued many Youkai of Gensoukyou they were suppressed by an Youkai with an even greater power. The reason why many of the Youkai submitted to the Vampires was since they were no longer allowed to attack the humans or shrine maidens and food became distributed to them thus making them loose their willpower.
その後、気力が残っていた妖怪達が懸念して「博麗の巫女」（博麗霊夢）に相談、博麗霊夢も退屈だったので妖怪と決闘しやすくなる考えに賛同して、妖怪が書いたと思しき原案を元に「スペルカードルール」と呼ばれる一連のルールを持つ決闘法を制定、導入することを決定した[1]。これにより、「プロレスの様な」あるいは「スポーツ感覚に近い決闘」と表現されるような闘いを気軽に行うことが可能となった[1][13]。大規模な異変を引き起こしても、一度敗れたら素直に引き下がって禍根を残さないので、妖怪は異変を起こしやすくなり、人間も異変を解決しやすくなった。
After that, Youkais who still had some will power left went to have a compromise with the "Hakurei Shrine Maiden" (Hakurei Reimu), Hakurei Reimu was also very board at this time and she agreed to the idea of getting to fight Youkai more and created the set of rules known as the "Spell card Rule" from the original ideas that were given to her by the Youkai, and brought it in to use. By having these fights that were similar in sense to "Wrestling" or "Sports like" one was able to do battle more freely. Even if one was to cause a major incident, if they were to lose one must obediently back off and not leave remorse about that. Because of this it became easier for Youkai to cause incidents and easier for humans to solve them.
この「スペルカードルール」を用いて初めて起こされた異変が、『紅魔郷』のメインストーリーとなっている「紅霧異変」である[14][注 1]。この『紅魔郷』に登場するスペルカード「夜符「ナイトバード」」に対し、ZUNは「スペルカード第一号」というコメントを寄越している[15]。
The first incident that took place with the "Spell Card rule" in to effect is the "Red mist incident" which was the main story in "Embodiment of Scarlet Devil". The spell card called "Night Sign 'Night Bird'" was the first spell card that appeared in Embodiment of Scarlet Devil and ZUN called it "Spell Card number one." in his comment.
他にもいろいろな決闘法が作られたが、スペルカードルールによる弾幕の美しさと多様さが大ウケしたため、他の決闘法はあまり使われていない[14]。
Many other forms of battle were created but since the beauty and diversity of the Danmaku was very popular, other methods are rarely used.
『The Grimoire of Marisa』の記述 [編集]
Written in "The Grimoire of Marisa"
霧雨魔理沙は『The Grimoire of Marisa』において『紅魔郷(紅霧異変)』から『地霊殿』までの間に魔理沙自身が見たスペルカードの一部を纏めている。魔理沙は同書の中で「ルールの無い世界では弾幕はナンセンスである」と語り、八雲紫の『弾幕結界』や藤原妹紅の『インペリシャブルシューティング』のような「攻撃するよりも人に見せる事」に重きを置いた『演劇タイプ』のようなタイプのスペルカードは純粋な殺し合いをする場合ではナンセンスであると語っており[16]、改めてスペルカードが『殺し合い』を『遊び』に変えるルールであるという事実を強調している。また魔理沙は『儚月抄』でも綿月依姫に対してスペルカードの説明をする場合、「この世でもっとも無駄なゲーム」であると教えている。
Kirisame Marisa has a collection of all the spell cards that she had seen starting from the "Embodiment of Scarlet Devil (Red mist Incident)" all the way to "Subterranean Animism" in "The Grimoire of Marisa". In the same book Marisa states that "In a world without rules danmaku is nonsense." and tells that attacks like Yakumo Yukari's "Danmaku Kekkai" and Fujiwara Mokou's "Imperishable Shooting" that are mainly "For show rather than for attack." are "Theatrical types" and These spell cards don't mean a thing when it comes to killings. With this it's restated that the Spell Card rule is a rule to turn "Killings" in to "Play". Also in "Bougetsushou" (Silent Sinner in Blue) Marisa explains to Wtatsuki Yorihime that the Spell Card rule is the "Most meaningless game in the world".
...Hmm seems my earlier post was incorrect, I'll go back and rub that out.
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Actually, I think the word you're looking for is Kannushi ^^;
Sorry, you're right. I do a lot of research but I'm absolutely terrible at remembering a lot of things about the Japanese language. I went back and checked and it's Kanushi Hakurei that ZUN tends to sign off as. ...maybe I'm just too used to thinking of ZUN writting from Rinnosuke's point of view that I extrapolate to Knnosuke, accidentally.
On the outset, it does seem like ZUN's only joking when he signs off as Kannushi Hakurei, but sometimes it's hard to tell if he really is, especially when he writes stuff like this (from Bohemian Archive):
"These articles about how we adapt to composing various styles of music
were written by the head priest of the Hakurei Shrine, who wrote these columns about music as fast as if he were composing them.
To describe it accurately,
if you cut out everything that's a lie, it's almost too trustworthy.
Surely, he must be the REAL Hakurei Shrine's head priest, as he says.
But whether or not you enjoy the articles that he wrote,
his true identity should be of no matter.
...Yes, you should enjoy these articles purely for what they are, and take them into your mind like that. "
If anything, the "his true identity should be of no matter" could be interpreted as ZUN saying "Maybe I really am Kannushi Hakurei. Or maybe I'm not." Then again, the text as a whole could also be him saying "Yea, I really am, but it's unsure, so don't sweat ittoo much." Or... whatever. I try not to sweat it too much, myself, but it's true that Rinnosuke probably visited the outside Hakurei Shrine and it didn't seem very deserted at all (actually, I'm starting to wonder if those noises he heard was ZUNnushi experimenting with music composition... badly.)
snip Japanese Wiki stuff
Ah, thanks. It seems like the Japanese Wiki agrees it was Reimu, too. Again, Perfect Memento (at least the translation at Touhou Wikia) only refers to it as "the shrine maiden", but it's in Reimu's section and EoSD "is said" to be the first time the spell card rules were used, so...
Possibly the "it's said" is there not to indicate a red herring, but instead is there because the only actual witnesses to EoSD was Reimu, maybe Marisa, and the SDM residents, so Akyu couldn't confirm it directly. Akyu is skeptical enough of Reimu's accomplishments that she isn't sure whether or not Reimu beat Yuka, even though you and I know this is the case. ....probably (PC98 game, after all)
The relevant official sources are here, if you wanted to see them (most of the Japanese Wiki appears to be a repeat of them)
The Vampire Incident and the Devil's Contract:
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Vampire
"A devil's contract is absolute"
The aftermath of the Vampire Incident, the QQ to the Shrine Maiden, and the origin of the Spell Card Rules (and their first usage in EoSD):
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Reimu_Hakurei
"The result of this were the spell card rules, which allowed duelists to (seemingly) stake their lives in individual combat."
Draft of the spell card rules:
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Draft_of_Spell_Card_Rules
(reading this again, I realize that it's at least 99% positive it is a devil's contract. It says that by being written on the same paper as this contract, the "regulations become absolute", which is what a devil's contract does. So yea, this means that residents of Gensokyo MUST use the spell card system. It also almost confirms it was written by Yukari, besides the other possible hints like "beauty and thought", "reason becomes its own power", and "use of one's full abilities will be denied", which are generally brought up in Yukari stories or articles here and there).
It's possible Byakuren "knew" of the spell card rules simply because the regulations are so absolute that you end up using spell cards even if you never heard about them before.
Side off-topic note: The base spirit of the spell card rules might be absolute, but apparently the actual attack rules can be bent. ZUN's actually stated that several of Marisa's spell cards are technically cheating, but no one cares "because it's Marisa". IIRC, Marisa herself in Grimoire of Marisa (I think) says that about someone else's spell card ("This spell card should be against the rules! I mean, sure, I do stuff like that, too, but I'm me!" or something like that)
Flandre also has a spell card (Forbidden Fruit) that's so powerful and impossible that it's forbidden and illegal to use, apparently. (at least, Aya says as such when she encounters it in Shoot the Bullet. In that game, though, I suppose it's okay for Flandre to use it against Aya because they were just playing around.) IIRC, that spell card would be impossible to combat without something like Aya's camera, but I haven't played that game in a long time so I could be remembering wrong
Apparently Suika growing huge and crushing you isn't a particularly legit spell card, either, but people (or at least, Marisa?) probably let it slide because Suka's new to spell cards.
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Danmaku is not supposed to be literally how touhou characters fight, but kind of like an alternative way to duel (at least that's the leading theory, right?)
So how do the girls do battle when it isn't danmaku?
Realistically, alot of them would just gap your head off your shoulders or something, but what do you guys think?
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Danmaku is not supposed to be literally how touhou characters fight, but kind of like an alternative way to duel (at least that's the leading theory, right?)
So how do the girls do battle when it isn't danmaku?
Realistically, alot of them would just gap your head off your shoulders or something, but what do you guys think?
Shigo...
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They would beat the snot out of each other with everything that isn't danmaku, just like in the fighting games.
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Body-slams and flying kicks. Wriggle would be god-tier.
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They'd do this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZnIiNhUpWo)
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If they fought for real they'd use just about everything in their arsenal of powers except danmaku. They'd use their raw physical strength, destructive magic and godhax abilities to their full extent.
Yuuka would kick the shit out of you, strangle you/stab you/make you explode with plants and use a deadly version of the Master Spark. She might even bust out the mysterious ultimate magic she got after Mystic Square.
Alice would open her grimoire and use all kinds of elemental shitstorms along with humongous mecha dolls.
Yukari would gap your internal organs out, or just utterly erase you from existence.
Shinki would make Makai compress into you, effectively crushing you in dimensions. And she'd sic all kinds of newly created demon spawn at you.
Suika has so many ways to kill you it isn't funny anymore. Air (de)compression, crush you under her foot, disintegrate you, raid you with an army of mini Suika's, turn to mist and materialize in your body, thus making you explode, throw you into a black hole, incinerate you, crush you with rocks or she can just tear you limb from limb with her physical strength.
Yuugi would also kick the shit out of you with fisticuffs, and her very vague power could do all kinds of punishment on you.
And don't let me get started on Utsuho.
In short, they'd perform all kinds of cruel punishment on each other. But as Tiamat has once stated: these full-power fights would be utterly pointless for the Gensokyo Top. A one-on-one battle between the mightiest of youkai would last almost forever and not accomplish anything. The danmaku fighting system is a lot more practical in this regard.
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Everyone's already stated good points so I'll leave with this; "I love a good catfight."
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I'm tempted to quote "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" at this point, but I think I'd better not. Question seems pretty much answered to me.
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Then Lily Black and Lily White
and Mystia messin' with everybody's sight
and Sikieiki and Minoriko Aki
and Chiyuri and Yumemi Okazaki
Rika, Nitori, Koishi and Satori,
Eirin, Ichirin, every single fairy
Maribel Hearn and Renko Usami ... um ...
I can't think of any other names that fit together @.@
... all came outta nowhere lightning fast
and kicked Yukari in her gappy ass
it was the bloodiest battle that the world ever saw etc.
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We were at AnimeNext here in Jersey over the weekend, and my one foray into the Artist Alley had only one table selling anything Touhou related, and it was an amazing freaking haul. I'm talking artbooks that were real offset print jobs, bound professionally, and sealed in polybags. They were selling an artbook, a B&W comment book, a pencil board or a poster (depending on the package) and a BEAUTIFUL bag to carry it in. You know how some women use Victoria's Secret bags to carry small and light stuff around? Basically that, but Touhou artwork.
Everything is in Japanese and/or Chinese. I was talking with the girl at the table and they didn't have a website, although I do have her Paypal email from buying up everything they had right then and there. I'd love to link to it to show off the art, because while I'm not exactly the King of Pixiv, I haven't seen anything like this on Danbooru yet.
If I can, I'll scan the bags and anything that I won't break the spine of by doing. This is serious Japan-quality doujinshi and I don't want to jack it up.
Anyone ever heard of them/know of them?
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Anyone ever heard of them/know of them?
Nope...
But I am slighty interested.
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"Sanae," when broken down, probably sounds something like sa-nah-eh... But if one were to say it more fluidly, should her name be pronounced like sah-nai, or sah-nei?
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I use suh-nay
Satori has a third eye. Koishi does not. Why are all of her cards about the subconscious?
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Koishi does have a third eye. Seeing how hated her sister was for having an open third eye, Koishi kept her's closed. As a backfire, Koishi gained the ability to read and manipulate the subconscious.
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"Sanae," when broken down, probably sounds something like sa-nah-eh... But if one were to say it more fluidly, should her name be pronounced like sah-nai, or sah-nei?
Sanae. Sa-na-eh. Say that fast and you have it.
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By accident I kept pronoucing her name like the word Sane for some time (after reading her name very carefully).
Same goes to Utusho.
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makin me cry
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makin me cry
sirno
I'm sorry I love you
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Is the stick that Sanae is holding a gohei, but with a different design from Reimu's?
Thanks in advance!
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"Sanae," when broken down, probably sounds something like sa-nah-eh... But if one were to say it more fluidly, should her name be pronounced like sah-nai, or sah-nei?
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4290.0
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Is the stick that Sanae is holding a gohei, but with a different design from Reimu's?
Thanks in advance!
Yeah, it's a gohei, although slightly different in design. Reimu's is the more traditional kind, the kind you see everywhere in popular culture.
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Yeah, it's a gohei, although slightly different in design. Reimu's is the more traditional kind, the kind you see everywhere in popular culture.
Touhou Hisoutensoku Wiki calls it a onusa (or Shide Onusa) however, but it's still a gohei, right?
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Onusa, huh.
Well...I'd still call it a gohei though, seeing as to how the both of them are used for the same thing and have pretty much the same purpose in Shinto rituals. Then again, you might wanna look to someone who's more fluant in japanese stuff than me.
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Touhou Hisoutensoku Wiki calls it a onusa (or Shide Onusa) however, but it's still a gohei, right?
Those sticks with ritual like purposes have the names of: Gohei, Nusa (Onusa), or Heisoku
While those sticks looks different they're same things as far as I understand.
...Rather what's different is not the sticks but something a bit more gineral.
Most people consider both Raimu and Sanae as "shrine maidens" but this is a misunderstanding.
While Reimu is a "Shrine Maiden" which is very general, Sanae is a "Kaze Hafuri" or "Kaze Houri"(風祝).
A "Kaze hafuri" is something that's special for the Moriya shrine.
While their jobs are similar to the regular shrine maiden's they also act as earthly/descended gods so in a sense they're also like an idol. (Sorry I couldn't find a better word to use.)
...On a side note, it's said that Sanae is modeled after an existing person.
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How do you perform the 412/632 moves in SWR/UNL? I can do the 214/236/22 ones just fine.
If you don't get it, look at your numpad.
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4290.0
We should do this again one of these days :3
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Pronunciation stuff
Oh, hi. (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=romaji)
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How do you perform the 412/632 moves in SWR/UNL? I can do the 214/236/22 ones just fine.
If you don't get it, look at your numpad.
Considering you understand the numpad notation, you should already know how to do it in theory. Hit 6, let go - Hit 2, then keep holding 2 and hit 6.
The problem lies in how fluidly you can hit the directional buttons... But you likely already knew that. It's probably best to practice doing the movement slowly, first, and making sure your fingers understand the pattern.
Sometimes people let go of 6 after they hit 2, rather than let go before.
Or you may possibly be hitting 2 and 6 at the same time rather than hitting 2, then 6.
Also, don't forget to keep holding those buttons when you press the attack button.
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How do you perform the 412/632 moves in SWR/UNL? I can do the 214/236/22 ones just fine.
If you don't get it, look at your numpad.
Protip: It's 421/623.
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Hmm, is there anyway to do this with the directional pad instead? Also, for example, when I do 214, I go into crouch, then move backwards before immediately hitting the B/C button,
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421/623 is actually pretty easy on a stick/d-pad, although certain pads are not exactly made for precise inputs. I highly recommend you get either a gamepad with analog sticks or simply just an arcade stick. The d-pad I currently use, which is made by Logitech, is quite unresponsive most of the time and often ruins games because of this. When it does work, I can actually manage to pull off some pretty neat stuff. However, due to the unreliable nature of this d-pad, I rarely use those inputs in a game now. Sometimes after I dash, I hit 236 and it somehow reads it as 623 because I was holding 6 earlier. With a stick, the diagonal 1/3 inputs become much easier to do.
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It usually works for me if I press right-down-right or left-down-left really fast.
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So, no one knows who Princess Inada (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFugieKYIH4) is, or why she and I have a problem?
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So, no one knows who Princess Inada (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFugieKYIH4) is, or why she and I have a problem?
The closest thing I can find is Kushi-inada-hime (http://eos.kokugakuin.ac.jp/modules/xwords/entry.php?entryID=102) from the legend of Yamata no Orochi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamata_no_Orochi). No clue as to why she has a problem with you (though technically it would be Minoriko who's being scolded).
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So, no one knows who Princess Inada (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFugieKYIH4) is, or why she and I have a problem?
The closest thing I can find is Kushi-inada-hime (http://eos.kokugakuin.ac.jp/modules/xwords/entry.php?entryID=102) from the legend of Yamata no Orochi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamata_no_Orochi). No clue as to why she has a problem with you (though technically it would be Minoriko who's being scolded).
As far as I know, that's the right Princess Inada, also known as princess Kushinada or Kushi-inada.
(I think it's Minoriko that's doing the scolding. Since it's 稲田姫様 に 叱られるから and Mioriko is that Princess Inada.)
In Touhou we know her as Princess Inada or as Aki Minoriko, she's concerned with the harvest of crops, mainly rice.
(This can be seen because when Princess Inada was saved from the Yamata no Orochi, she was actually used as a sacrifice for a successful harvest.)
Although in Touhou lots of fans see her as a minor god, but since she's in charge of what humans harvest she's actually one of the main gods that common farmers and families would care about. (Possibly having even more faith than Kanako or Suwako)
Why such a giving god would have a problem with you?
Beats me, did you say something insulting to the Aki sisters? Or maybe you didn't respect your food when you ate it?
Did you possible leave left overs and didn't feel sorry for doing so? (They say there's a god in every single grain of rice!)
Since if Minoriko has a problem with you, that means that you won't get to eat good rice, that includes fried rice, whit rice, rice cakes, and even sushi!
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If Minoriko is the one scolding, then it makes sense in context with the dialogue in MoF Stage 1. I don't really remember that well, but I know both Reimu and Marisa argued with Minoriko.
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Reimu mentioned something about how does a god taste and Minoriko interpreted it as Reimu wanting to eat her, so yeah. :V
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Actually, Reimu was just wondering what smelled so good and Minoriko kind of assumed. And Marisa was just wondering if there was anything worth practicing on thereabouts to get back into form.
But yeah, never really would have thought of Kushinada, as I tend to see the name like that, and parse it as Kushi-nada. Gracias!
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I always thought Minoriko was ZUN's version of Uke-Mochi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uke_Mochi).
But that's just me.
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Is it accurate to call Komachi a grim reaper? Shinigami means 'death god', and Chinese for grim reaper directly translates into death god.
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Is it accurate to call Komachi a grim reaper?
I'd rather call her "eased reaper", but yeah, otherwise, pretty much. :derp:
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Is it accurate to call Komachi a grim reaper? Shinigami means 'death god', and Chinese for grim reaper directly translates into death god.
(http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/2719/th09eexebydoyora.th.jpg) (http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/2719/th09eexebydoyora.jpg)
But still, yeah.
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If anything, just stick with "reaper," I'd say. Or, heck, just leave it as "shinigami" with a footnote as to what it is if you need one, like "yuki-onna."
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pronunciation talk
I always wondered why the touhou wiki doesn't list the pronunciation of a character on their page, unless they already do that. (though it is a subjective matter)
(guilty of saying sir-no :3)
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I always wondered why the touhou wiki doesn't list the pronunciation of a character on their page, unless they already do that. (though it is a subjective matter)
(guilty of saying sir-no :3)
Actually, some character articles have music notes next to their names, which leads to a sound file of how that name is read.
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How exactly did the "Eirin! Eirin Tasukette Eirin!" Meme form?
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How exactly did the "Eirin! Eirin Tasukette Eirin!" Meme form?
Beatmario(Cool&Create)'s Tasukete EIRINNNNNN!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSHmo04RlM4&feature=related)
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It might be more accurate to call Komachi a psychopomp, but no one uses this word so you'd just look like as asshole =[
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You mean Sikieiki?
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Shikieiki judges 'em. Komachi gets 'em there to be judged.
Really you could apply it to both, though, but I would apply it more to Komachi, since she's (so far as we know) the first thing the departed encounter, and the psychopomp's central role is to help the confused dead soul get its bearings and move on to where it needs to go.
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You know I been reading about the U.S invading the moon and I wonder is this Fannon?
Whether it's Fannon or not, how strong do you think Neil, Buzz(?) and the other guy where to be considered an invasion force by the Lunarians? or was it a misunderstanding?
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This should probably go in the Miscellaneous Questions Thread (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=3947.0).
But it's stated explicitly in Cage in Lunatic Runagate (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate). Or at least, that Armstrong and Aldrin came to the moon and planted their flag, which the Lunarians deemed an invasion.
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So, it was a misunderstanding I see.
Thanks for that, I do that right now.
Edit: Actually I can't do that right now, as it seems my browser doesn't trust that link and I don't want to risk it. Sorry.
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How can either of those sites be dangerous for you? The first one simply links to another thread in this forum and the other one links to Toukou Wiki.
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So, it was a misunderstanding I see.
Thanks for that, I do that right now.
Edit: Actually I can't do that right now, as it seems my browser doesn't trust that link and I don't want to risk it. Sorry.
If you don't trust the all so trustable muffin's links, you can also google the sites your self, starting from the touhou wiki and searching in it.
... If you really want to take all that extra time that is.
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I've seen a few fan arts that have Meiling shout the phrase, "Jaooooo!"
For example (NSFW due to Danbooru's ads):
http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/689987/alice_margatroid-comic-hakurei_reimu-hijiri_byakur (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/689987/alice_margatroid-comic-hakurei_reimu-hijiri_byakur)
Is it something similar to Patchouli's "Mukyu" and Utsuho's "Unyu"? And how did it came to be in the first place?
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I've seen a few fan arts that have Meiling shout the phrase, "Jaooooo!"
For example (NSFW due to Danbooru's ads):
http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/689987/alice_margatroid-comic-hakurei_reimu-hijiri_byakur (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/689987/alice_margatroid-comic-hakurei_reimu-hijiri_byakur)
Is it something similar to Patchouli's "Mukyu" and Utsuho's "Unyu"? And how did it came to be in the first place?
As far as I know, it came from this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvo-0DuVg7Q&feature=related), (around 5:54) one of the Touhou M-1 Manzai skits.
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While watching a PCB Phantasm replay, I realized that Yukari's second card was Border "Balance of Motion and Silence"
Isn't the opposite of Motion Stillness? Why is it Silence?
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While watching a PCB Phantasm replay, I realized that Yukari's second card was Border "Balance of Motion and Silence"
Isn't the opposite of Motion Stillness? Why is it Silence?
It was translators' choice. They apparently thought Silence was a better translation instead of Stillness, although I think most people regard Stillness as the better translation.
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So, border of motion and silliness? (http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w88/KimikoMuffin/pipe3.gif)
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As far as I know, it came from this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvo-0DuVg7Q&feature=related), (around 5:54) one of the Touhou M-1 Manzai skits.
Thanks!
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I've seen a few fan arts that have Meiling shout the phrase, "Jaooooo!"
For example (NSFW due to Danbooru's ads):
http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/689987/alice_margatroid-comic-hakurei_reimu-hijiri_byakur (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/689987/alice_margatroid-comic-hakurei_reimu-hijiri_byakur)
Is it something similar to Patchouli's "Mukyu" and Utsuho's "Unyu"? And how did it came to be in the first place?
To expand a bit from Hideki, I think 'Jaoooo' is a stereotypical Chinese kiai shout for Japanese, kinda like 'Hiyah!' or 'Waaaaaaaataaaaaaah' when people do caricatures or parodies of martial artists shouts in English.
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To expand a bit from Hideki, I think 'Jaoooo' is a stereotypical Chinese kiai shout for Japanese, kinda like 'Hiyah!' or 'Waaaaaaaataaaaaaah' when people do caricatures or parodies of martial artists shouts in English.
I'm Taiwanese, which has the same culture as China, and I can't say that I've heard such a cry before. Thanks for the information though.
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I think Nobu meant that it is a Japanese stereotype that "JAOOOOOO" is a typical Chinese cry.
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Yeah, that's what I meant. Like how bigots in America might go "Ching chong ching" to make fun of the sound of Chinese, and the Swedish Chef will... uh... be the Swedish Chef. :p
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Mystias go bork.
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It seems that Meiling is commonly seen as an avatar for the Dragon God, Dragon God itself or some other kind of reptile youkai that resembles the Dragon God. Sometimes she's 'just a youkai'.
But has anyone ever considered that Meiling might just be a panda youkai who dyes her hair red and likes dragons? She's from China, isn't that particularly powerful despite the dragon imagery, is veeery lazy, relies on physical strength and we've never seen her ears before. She might have a pair of panda ears under her hat.
I should draw this some time...
This is mostly just a lulzy theory. No need to take it entirely seriously. Based on Meiling's symbolism, ability, danmaku color and spellcards she may actually be some kind of avatar or follower of the Dragon God.
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This is mostly just a lulzy theory. No need to take it entirely seriously. Based on Meiling's symbolism, ability, danmaku color and spellcards she may actually be some kind of avatar or follower of the Dragon God.
Or she may just be Chinese.
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Or she may just be Chinese.
Are you telling me that the Chinese aren't panda youkai? :/
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The panda youkai theory is really intriguing, and frankly, I'd like to believe it. But then why isn't she in Eientei, where she'd have a whole forest of bamboo?
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The panda youkai theory is really intriguing, and frankly, I'd like to believe it. But then why isn't she in Eientei, where she'd have a whole forest of bamboo?
Maybe that is where Remi & co. found her in the first place, munching on bamboo. Remi was interested in Meiling's martial arts technique and decided she'd want her as a gate keeper. To convince Meiling to join the SDM Remilia faced her in a physical battle. Remilia, being a vampire and thus possessing amazing strength, defeated Meiling. Because of Meiling's martial arts honor or something of the like Meiling was obliged to now serve Remilia, just like how Sakuya may have been a vampire hunter that came to serve Remi through defeat. Alternatively, Remilia used her powers of fate to manipulate Meiling into becoming a gate keeper.
And perhaps Meiling gets payed with bamboo? :V
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Perfect Memento has Akyu under the assumption that she's paid with human. Mei Ling also states to Reimu that she should have permission to eat humans and shrine maidens. So she really does seem to be quite carnivorous.
Me personally, I think Mei Ling MIGHT be an actual dragon god but doesn't realize it (and was probably sealed away, along with her memories. Possibly she may even be the original dragon that threatened to destroy Gensokyo, and Yukari sealed her away but lied to the historians by stating that she got the dragon pacified by pledging peace). The dragon symbolisms are already well documented (Hong meaning Dragon and on her hat, her rainbow spell cards, etc), but sometimes I wonder if her dreams about an epic youkai might actually be dreams about herself (Mei Ling's Hisoutenkan ending, she dreams of a really really powerful youkai that will someday attack Gensokyo, even stronger than the cat fish. I wonder if that powerful youkai was actually herself
), especially considering how serious business dreams tend to be in Touhou. Again, I say "might", since this is obviously mostly speculative.
....of course, it would also be a pretty hilarious joke by ZUN, that a youkai so disrespected and picked on might actually be the most powerful youkai of all.
Sadly, Iku doesn't really have any clues in her few VS quotes with Mei Ling, but maybe ZUN thought that'd be too obvious.
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Are Remelia and Flandre natural born vampires? I would say yes because they are sisters, but is there anything that was said about their parents?
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Which is my point.
PMiSS isn't reliable. Especially in regards to Youkai generalities.
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Power-level derail removed. Come on, guys. I love fan theory as much as the next person but this is the MISCELLANEOUS QUESTIONS thread, not the "Are youkai bad enough dudes to live forever?" thread, heh. Carry on.
By the way - this makes now the third time I'm saying this within the span of a few minutes. Don't feel you need to get the last word. Drop it. Now.
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Hey, I'm just trying to help Okashii figure out why his reasoning ain't so good through absurd examples. =[
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Then take it to PM. This is not the right place for it. Sorry, but it's derailing.
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Ah, so that was what happened, I'm sorry if I added oil to the power level argument.
Thought it was mainly a reincarnation+life span argument :(
On a lighter note, a question:
We have quite a few shrines and temples in Gensoukyou, but just how many major religions do you guys think there are in Gensoukyou?
On a side note, what would be the faction you would fit under?
The last part's just for fun, not power level or waifu thing. Hey, fun's important :P
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There are bound to be atleast Shinto and Buddisim, but there are also people worshipping other gods and good jazz.
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This is kindda not Touhou related, but still is
There are some videos of touhou songs remixed with songs of some weird video with random people doing weird stuff
I don't know the name, but I've seen it sometimes in NND, and it's totally funny. Some of the most famous sounds are of a women in red clothes and short hair covering her face with her hands, and taking her hands out of her face while she screams "HA", and another famous one is of a man saying something like "Hombawaa" or something like that..
There are other famous ones, if you don't know yet what I'm talking about, I can tell more of 'em..
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There are some videos of touhou songs remixed with songs of some weird video with random people doing weird stuff
Dunno if yours is an actual question or not but, if you wanna know about them;
a women in red clothes and short hair covering her face with her hands, and taking her hands out of her face while
she screams "HA",
A series tagged as "頭がパーン" Which litteraly translates to "Head goes pop".
The woman is called Hisamoto Kumiko, and the video used is when she showed up in a certain video that promotes a certain religion called "Soukagakkai"
*Warning, this religion called "Soukagakkai" is known for being a cult
It's fine for you to enjoy these videos, but just don't forget that warning that I gave.
a man saying something like "Hombawaa" or something like that..
I can't exactly make out which one you may be talking about, but as far as I know, -in terms of those types of MAD videos- Matsuoka Shuuzo is the most famous male used in those kinds of videos, so it might be him?
This one is much safer than the one stated above so you can enjoy it without caring too much if it is him.
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I can't exactly make out which one you may be talking about, but as far as I know, -in terms of those types of MAD videos- Matsuoka Shuuzo is the most famous male used in those kinds of videos, so it might be him?
This one is much safer than the one stated above so you can enjoy it without caring too much if it is him.
Well, If I remember correctly, he's wearing a suit and he has short hair..
Is this Matsuoka Shuuzo a guy on a deodorant commercial?
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So is there an actual question you're asking or what...?
If you want to know who some people are, it would be much easier if you would just link videos and ask who/what's going on.
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I guess I was so focused on explaining about it I didn't even ask the question itself, nor thinked about sending the video xD
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7961774
It's a video like this, here it shows almost every one of these people.. there are many other, tagged as 東方日蓮船
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This question's been bugging me: what exactly is ZUN's role in the fighting games? Just writing, or does he do the music too but with different tools, because the fighting game music doesn't really have the style that ZUN's normal music has.
or does he do nothing and is credited with "Setting and characters" or something?
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This question's been bugging me: what exactly is ZUN's role in the fighting games? Just writing, or does he do the music too but with different tools, because the fighting game music doesn't really have the style that ZUN's normal music has.
or does he do nothing and is credited with "Setting and characters" or something?
Plot, (All the writing job) some of the music (In IaMP it was Onigashima and a few more, in SWR all the songs associated with Tenshi and Iku, In 12.3 it was unknown X, and a few others.) and character design for IaMP and SWR.
If you compare music like Onigashima and Wonderful heaven with the other songs in the game, the difference should be noticeable enough.
If you want to see all the songs ZUN composed, I think the Wiki would have that. (I think)
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I'm pretty sure he does the writing and some of the music (he composed Suika's fight-theme in IaMP for instance, but others handled the remixes of the existing Touhou themes, etc) and the designs of new characters.
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Wasn't there some controversy because Tenshi didn't come out exactly as he thought she would, or something like that?
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She looks pretty much the same thing on the sketches ZUN drew... although there are no peaches, smaller hat, and the sword looks like it's more like fire comming out of a stick..
Maybe it was with her colors?
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So I found this arrange: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chESw26LnC0&feature=related
And it sounds very nice, but I can't figure out how in the world it's related to Doll Judgement. Is it remixing a different song that I don't know? Was it labeled incorrectly? Or is there something I'm missing?
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It's Doll Judgment. Chords are the same more or less, and you can pick out bits and pieces of the song. Try the second-long segments 0:48 and 1:22. In any case, it's very distant. Of course not every arrange has to have the melodies directly in it, but this one in particular is just further out there.
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I've been reading some of the translation for the PC-98 game and was reading the dialogue between Mima and Yumemi and when Yumemi asked if Mima is dead she said she isn't yet before she told them that she is a soul. Could it be possible that Mima's body is still alive but she's just having a out of body experience?
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I always figured it was Insistent Terminology. "I'm not a ghost, I'm an evil spirit!"
Also, there's a thread for that (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=3947.0).
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Thanks
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So, I've been reading some of the translation for the PC-98 game and was reading the dialogue between Mima and Yumemi and when Yumemi asked if Mima is dead she said she isn't yet before she told them that she is a soul. Could it be possible that Mima's body is still alive but she's just having a out of body experience?
I know she said she's an Evil Spirit but maybe she's just Evil and a Spirit and then lost the evil part
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So, I've been reading some of the translation for the PC-98 game and was reading the dialogue between Mima and Yumemi and when Yumemi asked if Mima is dead she said she isn't yet before she told them that she is a soul. Could it be possible that Mima's body is still alive but she's just having a out of body experience?
I know she said she's an Evil Spirit but maybe she's just Evil and a Spirit and then lost the evil part
Take Youmu's example, she isn't half dead or half alive or anything, in the touhou world spirits are just as natural as any other living thing... in fact some are born as spirits and that's their "life". If Mima said that she isn't dead, then she must have been born that way.
About Mima's evil part... well at first she was vengeful against all of mankind but that sort of went away after a while...
Could it be because she met Reimu? Who knows.
Edit: ... or did it get answered already, I'm confused.
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I don't know, I was just thinking of the possibility of Mima having a body somewhere
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If I had to guess, I'd say it has something to do with animism, i.e. everything has a spirit, but spirits don't necessarily have to have "things," so to speak.
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Er, Things?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism
Short version: All objects, people, and living things have spirits. My point was that spirits can also exist independently, i.e. in the form of ghosts. But ghosts aren't the only way they could exist.
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Ah, I get it, I think
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I have a question.
why is it that when people remix touhou songs, they end up tossing the melody into the background, destroying the feeling of the song, or making it difficult to tell what theme it is? (that one can be good or bad depending on the song)
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Because they want it to be a remix, not the same thing with a few new instruments. That applies to any remixed songs, not just Touhou ones.
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I have a question.
why is it that when people remix touhou songs, they end up tossing the melody into the background, destroying the feeling of the song, or making it difficult to tell what theme it is? (that one can be good or bad depending on the song)
This sounds like you're asking why Touhou remixes suck, which is a bit like asking why mustard tastes terrible or why green is an awful color. You can't expect an objective answer to a subjective question.
For example, this arrangement of Wind God Girl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keJRaQfFz5s) is, to my mind, an improvement on the original that fleshes out the feelings in that song a lot better than the original did. You can tell right away which Touhou song it is as well, and the main melodies are right in the foreground. This is just one example of many I could point to. So I can't even agree with the premise of your question.
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Agreed with Tengukami. It's a matter of taste.
But the real reason I'm posting is to thank you for posting that song; I really like it. Better than almost all the other Wind God Girl vocal remixes I've heard.
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Not sure if this sort of question is allowed to be asked, but with Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds making many people go wild around these days and starting debates on which franchise has more powerful characters, I've suddenly started wondering if Touhou characters are as overpowered as Marvel characters (and also DC characters).
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Not sure if this sort of question is allowed to be asked, but with Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds making many people go wild around these days and starting debates on which franchise has more powerful characters, I've suddenly started wondering if Touhou characters are as overpowered as Marvel characters (and also DC characters).
Dunno how to answer that question other than to say; give MUGEN a try and put them against each other your self.
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Dunno how to answer that question other than to say; give MUGEN a try and put them against each other your self.
Thanks, but I prefer an answer that talks about canonical power levels rather than a game where everyone has a chance of defeating each other.
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Then you're not going to get an answer. It's all subjective.
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Then you're not going to get an answer. It's all subjective.
Whatever... Sorry for asking a pointless question... :blush:
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The rules sticky for this board outlines why power level discussions are verboten around here. As I think about that particular rule, I think that since it comes up often enough, it might - MIGHT - be a good idea to have a separate "let's all GRAR about power levels" thread, where those who want to engage in the futile and ultimately unresolvable discussion of power levels can do so, strictly within the confines of that thread, and everyone else who's sick of such discussions can stay away from it. Sort of like quarantining people who have some disgusting contagious illness, while everyone else goes about their daily lives. A power levels leper colony, if you will.
Anyway, that's for a mod to decide.
In answer to your question though - since it is answerable - canonically speaking, ZUN has never sat down and drawn up a power levels chart of Touhou characters. If you asked him who the strongest really was, he'd likely laugh at you. As it is, there isn't even any quantifiable data on how powerful a particular Gensokyan is; only what their power is.
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Actually, the reasons given in the sticky are kinda vague ... at least, they don't up and say "they are forbidden because they always end up going around in pointless circles because they rely on empirical information which does not exist given how vague canon is about that kind of thing."
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Some staff are generally wary of any discussions that essentially boil down to "argue about inane unverifiable stuff here". This is why we don't allow power level discussion in existing threads, and why some of us are skiddish about giving it its own topic, because that would really be asking for the proverbial "it".
Speaking for myself for a moment, obviously, any one individual can come up to me and go "you can trust me, I won't turn it into a flame war", and maybe for some individuals that might even be true, but I personally don't know who's going to march into that topic and get their panties in a bunch because their favorite character is getting the shaft a lot or someone presented an opinion that opposes theirs. It's nigh impossible to account for the crazies and the immature when setting up such a thread, beyond simply not setting up such a thread.
There are other staff that think it might be okay to give it a try, though, so don't take this as HARDLINE OFFICIAL STAFF STANCE, as it is being discussed.
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I appreciate the input, Kilga. I've been doing a lot of thinking about this and, well, how many of our Touhou/Gensokyo speculation threads ended with a resolution? How many even possibly could be resolved? Very few, I'd say.
Power level discussions keep coming up. Clearly, people want to talk about them. Rather than deleting them or shutting them down over and over, maaaaaybe we ought to have a little ol' quarantine thread just for powerlevels head-against-wall bashing.
And I can definitely appreciate the fact that there's a high potential for flamage when it comes to the topic. Here's what I'd suggest:
- Open the thread with a warning to be respectful and courteous in the discussion, and that flaming might result in action against the offending party.
- Should flamage occur, remove it.
- Should flamage get out of hand, lock the thread with the notice that this thread is living proof that MotK cannot do powerlevel discussions, and archive said thread for future reference whenever it comes up again.
Anyway, this is just my amateur opinion.
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I don't think we should even go into that at all. We have monitored several threads like that in the past and they failed to meet up to the expectations. To be honest I don't see the reason why anybody would want to know if Character X is strong than Character Y or Power C is better than Power D. Sure subjective remains subjective and interest areas might be different but power level discussions are the most clich? things with any kind of anime, manga, doujin, game.
Even though Tengukami makes a brave suggestion for it, I foresee little hope in it (FATE!). Mainly because we tried it before.
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Hele has great foresight.
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I see often that Remilia drops her tea cups, is it a symbolic meaning? Or is just cool and elegant(classy?) of Remilia?
Why in End of Daylight (all PV version, Black&white, Handdrawn, colored, animated) It's highly hinted that there are people trying to save Koishi? :\ I kinda wondering if anybody got an idea of why.... This could be because I haven't finished the Extra stage but I'm still curiose.
Who is Haru and why is s/he so damn awesome at remixing?!
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I'm really really sorry!!! I always get mix up with where to put what DX God damnit! I'm sorry for being an inconvience!
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Relax, it's all good. It's how you learn. And the staff here are a pretty chill bunch.
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And the staff here are a pretty chill bunch.
Ohnoes, my aura of intimidation :ohdear:
Just for future reference, I fused your topic to this thread since your questions gave off the "misc questions" vibe as opposed to a "discussion starter" vibe. Just to keep things less cluttered in the mainboard with 3 post answers to offhanded questions.
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Just for future reference, I fused your topic to this thread since your questions gave off the "misc questions" vibe as opposed to a "discussion starter" vibe. Just to keep things less cluttered in the mainboard with 3 post answers to offhanded questions
Yeah, okay... Though I do hope some-one answers it... >:> Unless it's already been answered...
Btw Is it me, or for some reason sticky(s) are really easy to overlook? It may be me, but Since I only come to this thread for like maybe 3 topics, I think I never notice the MQ... I'm usually on the "Make Game Thread" (the name is blank to me at the moment)
Again, I sorry for the inconvience.
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I think it should belong here.
Why does MoF have all bombs as a huge ring? Is that somehow symbolic(iirc both Suwako and Kanako have some sort of rope/iron/spellcard rings) or was ZUN just lazy to design or atleast repeat the previous bombs?
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Is this even a question, or yet another excuse to "hurrr ZUN = lazy"?
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An actual question.
If bombs=player spellcards...what are these rings? Spellcards are supposed to have names, and these are just...force rings which are the same for all 6 shottypes.
If it isn't a spellcard, did Reimu and Marisa acquire Jedi powers?
Either way...they beat several gods in a spellcard battle...without actual spellcards.
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There is nothing on the MoF Touhou wiki page that says anything about the MoF bombs' shapes. Maybe ZUN brought it up in an interview, but I doubt it. In short, I don't think there's an answer beyond speculation.
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Maybe he felt that bombs were too powerful in the previous games, so he weakened the range of them. Though given their power if you actually hit, that's not very likely...
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Or maybe a shaman hypnotized him and he was abducted by aliens.
Point is, the question has no answer.
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Alright, I have successfully finished reading this thread! And after reading some of the pages in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense a lot of my questions have been answered, but I still have a couple.
First, we all know that shinigami hunt down and fight celestials. If (or when, really) the celestials win then they are allowed to continue living despite having lived much longer than they were originally intended to. So, does this apply to all of Gensokyo's inhabitants? Can a sufficiently powerful youkai theoretically defeat a shinigami and avoid death or is dying of old age a completely different force? I'm guessing the answer to this question is probably no but I figured I'd ask just to clear it up in my mind. Also, when a shinigami fights a celestial, are the two of them bound by the spellcard rules or is the fact that the shinigami aren't from gensokyo enough to let them out of the contract? Sorry if this is cleared up in PoFV. I've never played it.
On a similar note, What is Rin's role in this? The information I've read seems to suggest that she takes people's bodies to be burned in the Former Hell of Blazing Fires, but all the fan work I've seen of her seems to have her collecting souls. Is this a purely fanon thing or am I missing some important key here? And while I'm on the topic of the Former Hell of Blazing Fires, what exactly is it's role? Is it still the place where the yama send souls with bad karma, or is it just like the Palace of Earth Spirit's garden or some other fitting analogy? And if it isn't where souls are sent to be punished anymore, where is the new hell? Is it located nearby in the underground or moved someplace completely different.
Sorry for all the questions. Simply trying to learn.
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The shinigami question is never answered anywhere ... except insofar as everyone else has to avoid death the usual ways (Hourai Elixir notwithstanding).
Orin just takes corpses. She has control over "evil spirits" which were already there (as far as I know), and one of the Double Spoiler spell-card comments suggests that the "zombie fairies" which surround her were just normal fairies dressing up, but having her actually steal souls per se is non-canon.
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I'm sorry if I overlooked this, and I must state that I didn't search, but anyway
Why does people make Marisa say "Ze" in the end of her sentences? It's like a speech habbit, like Naruto does?
And she says this in the games as well, or only in fanworks?
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Yes, it's as you say, a speech habit. Marisa's manner of speaking tends to be more masculine than how a girl should talk, and this is most known through her liberal use of "ze".
She does say it in the games, so it's not just a fandom thing. Just look in the translation pages on the wiki and look for the character "ぜ" in Marisa's texts.
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Yeah, as I understand it, "da ze" is a masculine way to end sentences in the Japanese language. (And many fans leave out the "da" part because they are lazy)
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Thanks, KimikoMuffin! Now that I think about it I probably was seeing the evil spirits and assumed they were souls. >_<
Any knowledge of the Former Hell of Blazing Fires from anyone, though?
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Real quick, possible answered earlier but LOL 29 PAGES
Where did Yukari get her 'Sukima' nickname? Or is it Suikima... or... well, you know what I mean. It's got me puzzled.
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Real quick, possible answered earlier but LOL 29 PAGES
Where did Yukari get her 'Sukima' nickname? Or is it Suikima... or... well, you know what I mean. It's got me puzzled.
"Sukima" is Japanese for "gap". :P
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Real quick, possible answered earlier but LOL 29 PAGES
Where did Yukari get her 'Sukima' nickname? Or is it Suikima... or... well, you know what I mean. It's got me puzzled.
It means "gap". Who exactly called her this the first time, I don't know.
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I don't know if this goes here, but where can I learn about Japanese/Chinese/etc. legends? I can try google, but I don't know what to search for.
Sorry if this has been answered, I want to know where stuff in Touhou come from.
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I don't know if this goes here, but where can I learn about Japanese/Chinese/etc. legends? I can try google, but I don't know what to search for.
Sorry if this has been answered, I want to know where stuff in Touhou come from.
A good place to start is with the Touhou Wiki entry on Gensokyo (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Gensokyo). From there, most of the characters who are referencing mythology in some way - and many, many of them are - include links to Wikipedia articles on these aspects of mythology. From there, you can go branch off into learning more about Tale of the Bamboo Cutter's Daughter, oni, tengu and so on.
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how do I obtain completed saves for StB and DS? the game is too hard for me, but I wanna see some of the spells of some of the later characters.
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how do I obtain completed saves for StB and DS? the game is too hard for me, but I wanna see some of the spells of some of the later characters.
I'd recommend Gensokyo.org for their archive of replays.
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This may've been asked already or be totally obvious:
How is Hisotensoku pronounced? Also, somewhat unreleated, but... What's the 'rule' on 'silent' U's (Yusuke, etc.) in Japanese?
Thanks much, all.
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He so ten so coo
Hee soh teh un soh koo
Also, the u vowel sound is kind of weak. If you slow down the way you say Yusuke, you should notice a "su" kind of sound before the "kay". It's there, you just don't really notice it. If that makes any sense.
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He so ten so coo
Hee soh teh un soh koo
Also, the u vowel sound is kind of weak. If you slow down the way you say Yusuke, you should notice a "su" kind of sound before the "kay". It's there, you just don't really notice it. If that makes any sense.
Thought so. And it makes perfect sense, thanks much!
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Edit: resolved.
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This may've been asked already or be totally obvious:
How is Hisotensoku pronounced? Also, somewhat unreleated, but... What's the 'rule' on 'silent' U's (Yusuke, etc.) in Japanese?
Thanks much, all.
This (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=romaji) should help.
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This (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=romaji) should help.
Thanks much for the link. I checked it once before and couldn't remember which site had it!
Also, this may have been answered elsewhere or just be sitting around in a thread of its own, but...
What's a good, reliable, non-Japanese-fluent place to order stuff? Like swag and the games and whatnot? I've tried Palet Mail (http://www.paletweb.com/), but they seem to be lacking in some stuff (mainly doujin CDs, from what I've seen. Then again, with the older stuff, it may be hard to find it at all, but.). So, yeah. Any recommendations are welcome (Oh, and I did read the topic about the kind sort'a fellow who happens to be able to pick that stuff up for us, so I'll keep him in mind).
I'll shut up, honest! And I'll stop being so long-winded. Maybe.
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Try NForza's "Buy Stuff from Japan" thread in Renko's.
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CAUTION: Great Fairy Wars extra stage spoilers coming up!
So...how long has Marisa been capable of flying without her broom? (link) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kcaRwmLrqw) (Skip to 5:00)
Sure, Marisa could dash through the air in the fighters, but she always seemed to rely on her broom to actually fly. However, Marisa floated around on her own during her 'Magic Sign [Magical R360]' spellcard in Hisoutensoku. Has Marisa recently learned to fly without her broom? Or was she always capable of flying without a broom? Does the broom grant an extra speed boost or something like that? Did Marisa just use it for the witch theme and/or lulz? Marisa used (an attack similar to) 'Magic Sign [Stardust Reverie]'/'Comet [Blazing Star]' without a broom in Great Fairy Wars, so that might disclose 'the broom gives extra speed' theory...
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One of Akyu's footnotes in Flandre's section in regards to Flandre's unworking-wings mentions that ANYONE can fly (Specifically, "Don't worry. We all can fly.". It seems to be a pretty common ability in Gensokyo to pretty much any of its residents, normal humans included (the way Akyu words it, I'm not sure you even need to be a human magician to be able to fly)
Presumably Marisa's broomstick just... does... something extra. Or maybe it's an aesthetic choice. Dunno.
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Marisa doesn't need her broomstick to fly.
She just does it cuz she is a witch and witches fly with them (i.e. no real reason at all).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read that explanation somewhere in one of the comics. My memory is bad tho
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I don't remember a specific source either, but yeah, that's basically my belief about it.
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apparently marisas broom is used to steal things. it has a mind of its own.
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Considering her speed in the games, I guess she uses her broom to fly faster than without using anything at all.
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Did the latest game help boost the Three Mischievous Fairy's popularity (more fan arts)? Or are they already very popular to begin with? I'm under the assumption that characters who appear in the Window games are more popular than those who appear in the books and PC-98 games combined.
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It's been like three days, it's way too early to tell.
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Can some-one explain to me the "spell Sign" of Remilia, Yuyuko and Flandre means and what's it's name.....
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Can some-one explain to me the "spell Sign" of Remilia, Yuyuko and Flandre means and what's it's name.....
Do you mean the _____sign thing that comes before the spell name?
If so, for Flandre it's "Taboo", "Forbidden bullet", ?Secret bullet", and "QED" (Quod Erat Demonstrandum) ...or something along the lines of these.
Can you specify which game you're referring to for Remilia and Yuyuko?
Also, the wiki would probably have these info too.
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No... I mean the red circle with a star or something similar... Does it have a name? if it does what's it's meaning.
Anyway if it doesn't... just say it. >.> I would look it up but I'm not sure if "Spell Sign" would mean anything and Umineko V-V Says it would probably be herbur(sp?)... but of course... it could just be a made up "Spell Sign (circle)"
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Also... When I speak of Yuyuko... I'm not talking about the fan... I am talking a "spell sign" you see before and after when you fight her
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You mean the spell circle?
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more or less
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Those are pretty much the magic circles they use when casting magic. They don't have names, but like an ID of their owner, see a magic circle and you know who's casting what.
The spell signs varies from spells, and the size depends on how much magic the caster pours in. A grand, ancient spell may have the circle of their own, but usually it will change due to the caster's attribute.
(http://a.imageshack.us/img695/667/b42f3480826d19dc986ecbb.jpg)
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OM G where did you find those??? D8... they're beautiful
Anyway thank you for your answer!
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Does anyone know anything about the hashihime youkai?
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Hashihime was once a woman whose husband was unfaithful, she died and turned into a youkai which kills couples out of jealousy.
She usually is seen near the bridge because the Japanese love making out having a date there. (kind of romantic, I suppose they think)
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Maybe you must use energy to fly without broom or flying stuff, so Marisa just doesn't want to waste her energy.
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Does anyone know anything about the hashihime youkai?
Hashihime was once a woman whose husband was unfaithful, she died and turned into a youkai which kills couples out of jealousy.
She usually is seen near the bridge because the Japanese love making out having a date there. (kind of romantic, I suppose they think)
There's also is a theory that state that "it's a bridge because the word bridge sounds similar to love" (橋 Hashi and 愛し Aishi)
From that, it's said that if you speak good about other bridges or sing (a song/poem) about a women when you're crossing a bridge, you'd get cursed by the Hashihime.
After she killed her unfaithful husband, she killed all his family and relatives, then went off killing anyone that came by the bridge.
Because of that, she's also depicted as both a God and an Oni (A guardian god of the bridge and a human that became an Oni in her deep envy.)
They said that when she killed a man she took the form of a beautiful women, and when she killed a women, a handsome man.
Although she's told of frighteningly in the fables, she's depicted as a lovely women in the old songs that sing about her... So, Parsee...
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Another question: As far as I know, to make spellcards you need to write incantations and signs on the card to imbue them with power and to 'program' what the danmaku pattern will be like. I assume these incantations are all written in kanji, katakana and other forms of Japanese language, with maybe some individuals possibly using Chinese or Latin (Meiling and Patchouli respectively). Some may even use ancient languages not known by man, like demon language in Koakuma's case and angel language in Tenshi's case. In short, you need to write something down on the spellcard to make it usable.
But how in the world can Mystia have spellcards then? According to Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red she can't read, let alone write. How did she make hers then? Or was Aya just being a bitch and Mystia can read after all?
In fact, where do youkai learn to talk and read anyway?
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Spell Signs need no characters. You can use signs, like your signature, or a circle, a square, a leaf, a chuck norris, a whatever-shape-you-like.
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Another question: As far as I know, to make spellcards you need to write incantations and signs on the card to imbue them with power and to 'program' what the danmaku pattern will be like. I assume these incantations are all written in kanji, katakana and other forms of Japanese language, with maybe some individuals possibly using Chinese or Latin (Meiling and Patchouli respectively). Some may even use ancient languages not known by man, like demon language in Koakuma's case and angel language in Tenshi's case. In short, you need to write something down on the spellcard to make it usable.
Exert from Wikipedia from earlier on in the thread
スペルカードルール
Spell card rule
基本的に、あらかじめ技の名前と命名しておいた名前の意味を体現した技をいくつか考えておき、それぞれの技名を契約書形式で記した契約書を任意の枚数所持しておくことになる。この契約書を「スペルカード」と呼び、カードが使われることが多いが、必ずしもカードである必要はない。技の名前が重要であり[3]、読みより名前の字が重要とされる [4]。
Basically, one thinks of the name of the technique and the thinks of an attack that express the name of the technique. They can then carry any arbitrary amount of cards that act as pacts on the technique. This pact is called the "Spell card" and although cards are most often used, there is no need for it to be cards. The name of the technique is very important and the characters used for it is more important than how its read.
Also, exert from Nicopedia that I just translated now
スペルカード自体の能力
The actual power of spell cards
カード名を宣言して発動するのがスペルカードのルールであるが、このカード自体には何の力もない。つまり他人のスペルカードを所持し、宣言したところでなにも起こらない。そもそもカードを宣言して放たれる弾幕は全て個人の能力によるものであるため、カードが無くてもその弾幕を再現することは可能。
むしろもっと難易度の高い（というより絶対に避けられない）弾幕を放つことも出来る。しかしルールではっきりと禁止されている訳ではないが、避けられない攻撃を放つことは普通は皆しない。
Declaring its name and activating it is the spell card rule, but the actual card has no power at all. Thus, even if one was to posses another's spell card nothing would happen when that card is declared. In the first place the danmaku released by declaring it is all by the power of the card's maker, thus one can reproduce the same danamku without the card.
More ever, without the spell card, one can shoot more difficult (or unavoidable) danmaku. But most do not use attacks that are unavoidable, even if it's only vaguely stated in the rules.
よくスペルカードは必殺技や切り札のように思われているが、結局のところただの宣言用の紙である。
なお、カード宣言したと相手が分かればいいため、実は技名を叫ぶ必要もない。
In conclusion, spell cards are often thought like deathblows or trump cards, but in reality they are only paper used for declaration.
Furthermore, there is no need to shout the name or anything, as long as the opponent knows of the declaration.
What can be derived from the above two statements:
1. Spell cards don't need to be "cards"
2. As long as they can create/reproduce danmaku, anyone -even you!- can create a spell card.
Next up will be the "make it yourself! Spell Card" corner, get your pencils, artistic talents, and danmaku ready!
Sources:
Wikipedia - Spell Cards (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9A%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89)
Nicopedia, definition of Spell Cards & Thread about Spell Cards (http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9A%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89)
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Okay...so the cards are nothing more than post-its to remind you what the attack's name is, and the card themselves hold no power, only the name?
The explanation brings up two more questions:
- The power of the spellcard is based on the power of the user and the name of the card. But how come you don't need to shout out the name then? The power lies in the name, right? And how can the enemy know you declared if you haven't shouted out the name? Is there a flash or a symbol or something to warn the opponent that you declared?
- Is it required that you think of the name first and then the attack? If, for example, I designed an attack, but I don't have a name for it yet, I can't make a spellcard out of it? And will it be weaker if the name doesn't fit or properly express the attack? And will it be more powerful if it is written with characters with multiple meanings?
It looks hard to start with a name and then design the attack. Mostly people design the attack first and then give it an appropriate name.
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I think things like that are just left up to your imagination. "The power lies in the name" is most likely false, though. Nonspells don't have names, but they can be quite powerful too. I think the names are just for memory/convenience purposes. Also, shouting out the name is definitely an option, but if you can find some other way to tell the opponent a spellcard is coming (by creating a flash, or visibly charging up energy), that's fine too.
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D,8... I was just wondering do you know a doujinshi with Mima, Komachi, the Yama featuring Reimu, Marisa and Suika? I downloaded it a long time ago and now Idk where to find it.
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- The power of the spellcard is based on the power of the user and the name of the card. But how come you don't need to shout out the name then? The power lies in the name, right? And how can the enemy know you declared if you haven't shouted out the name? Is there a flash or a symbol or something to warn the opponent that you declared?
Only in Harry Potter
- Is it required that you think of the name first and then the attack? If, for example, I designed an attack, but I don't have a name for it yet, I can't make a spellcard out of it? And will it be weaker if the name doesn't fit or properly express the attack? And will it be more powerful if it is written with characters with multiple meanings?
Like a pet, you should have a name for one, just in case you have too many and don't remember what is what (Wood Magic 1, Wood Magic 2,... ?) and one magic will be cooler with one cool name. Master Spark would not as badass if you call it "My Laser" but it doesn't mean it's less powerful.
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Sariel's an Angel of Death, but what does an Angel of Death do, exactly?
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Angels are messenger of God, or so the Bible said. However, in some countries angels are just the spirits of people who made good deed and went to Heaven. In some culture, angel is the whole another race that lives on Heaven, you can say they are the same as the Celestia (Tenshi's name means Angel, too)
I assume the Angel of Death is more of a title than a job.
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It's HRtP, ZUN barely figured anything out.
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Is Marisa Tasofro's favorite character or what? Their non-canonical Touhou games (Super Marisa Land, Mega Mari, and New Super Marisa Land) all have Marisa as the main character.
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Sariel's an Angel of Death, but what does an Angel of Death do, exactly?
Is an exterminator or an intermediary who help you to die. Remember the Ten Plagues of Egypt? the last one was the death of all firstborns in Egipt, but passing over houses which have the sign of lambs' blood on the doorpost. That was maybe the work of an angel sended for God. Sariel no is the only angel "of death" exist Malachi and Azrael...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sariel
Sariel is very contradictory: is an archangel in charge with the "souls who has commit sin", but after appears like a fallen angel (a Grigori, an angel who fall in lust with daughters of men) but his-her name appear in the shields of angels. (yes, that is why he-she have a shield in the game) even be a warrior (angels ARE warriors of God in the middle ages christian tradition) no like conflicts; is related with the moon (he-she teach the courses of the moon to humanity when was fallen, with agriculture things,magic etc...and higiene, too XD) and even is changed to Azrael, directly, or a "ripper" popular image. Or with a trumpet! (oh Sariel is very versatile)
The legend say who the fallen angels teach us the magic and sciense knowledge. That is why his-her song is Civilization of Magic.
(my fan despiction of Touhou vercion of Sariel: very tall and androgine beautiful (two meters when go with humans,gigantic in combat (in comparision with japanese, that is mush) but slow in earth; hermaprodite and shoot to "all sides"(caused for his-her lust sin, have a demon-like body but angelic look) perverted (for fall in sin, now no have free will, and needed eat souls. After the Hakurei Barrier formation, he was able to change his-her menu to something more innofencive: lust of creatures with a soul..."eat" in other form...call him-her now the "Angel of the "Little" Death XD) pacifist, with infinite knowledge about antique magic but nothing about modern things, love animals,youkai and specially humans (except when is awaken, Reimu know about that XD) smell always good, like take baths (specially with good company XD) and his-her faborite thing is the moon... and his-her Kourin plushie. Sings like and angel and is a decent trompetist.)
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Speaking of HRtP, Konngara's red and black threads/hair/whatever seem to link up at her left chest, like a false satori's third eye, similar to how the horn is more of spike that was impaled through her head than the real horn. And considering that the underground city is located at former hell...
Then again, I'm probably over imagining things.
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Then again, I'm probably over imagining things.
I'm inclined to agree.
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This could be totally obvious, but it's been bugging me for a few days.
Remilia's power is the manipulation of fate, right?
Then... how could she have lost to Reimu/Marisa in EoSD? (Or, well, any storyline match in the fighting games) Was it just her being a good sport about it and NOT using fate manipulation or is there something else?
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She doesn't really have conscious control over it.
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Fate is a vague definition. Remilia's ability itself is vague too, what can she do to fate exactly? Can she just change fate at an exact point, like, "She will get hit after 3,2366845 seconds." or she has to make up everything to go to that fate? Like "in the next 0,812387 she will step right for 82 degrees, 5.01829 centimetres,..."
Because fate is not an exact thing, people can change their fate, or so they think. Knowing the fate will surely change it, though. Therefore, Remilia cannot change the fate as the latter example to get a perfect result, one fate involves other's fate, a slightest change in your fate may greatly affect another fate that collided with it.
Ex: I randomly discovered Touhou and got too obsessed. My otaku level went straight up which wouldn't happen if I never cared about what one of my friends said about Touhou. My friends wouldn't have to hear my rant about Touhou everyday. My HDD wouldn't have 2TB of Touhou so I may can store something else more useful. My parents wouldn't love The Gensokyo the Gods Loved and have History of The Moon, Broken Moon as their ringtones. MY BROTHER WOULDN'T BREAK UP WITH HIS GIRLFRIEND BECAUSE OF SAIGYOUJI YUYUKO.
Remilia may have absolute control over fate, but that consumes too much effort, time and her own magic power, so she wouldn't do that randomly just for victory of some stupid danmaku game.
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My parents wouldn't love The Gensokyo the Gods Loved and have History of The Moon, Broken Moon as their ringtones. MY BROTHER WOULDN'T BREAK UP WITH HIS GIRLFRIEND BECAUSE OF SAIGYOUJI YUYUKO.
...My level of respect for you has gone up by a few thousand magnitudes... :3
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I like to think of it as being kinda like a Death Note: she can go into some level of detail, but she can't specify anything that would be too out-of-character ("Flandre behaves like a proper lady"), too improbable/difficult to arrange ("Marisa's broom spontaneously explodes"), or too soon ("Reimu dies of thirst five minutes from now" while Reimu's drinking tea).
"Must know their name and face" and "cannot affect anything less than six minutes and forty seconds in the future" optional. ;)
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Most Touhou games have 7 stages with the exception of Perfect Cherry Blossom which has 8 stages instead, with Yukari being the Phantasm stage boss. But Phantasmagoria of Flower View has 9 stages, with Shikieiki supposedly being the Final stage boss. So is that why Yukari fears her?
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No. The stage-number in the game has nothing to do with "how powerful they are," especially in a game like PoFV where the characters are theoretically supposed to be balanced.
Which is exactly like power-level discussions are forbidden.
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Just a little dictionary nazi-ism here (it's like being a grammer nazi except more concerned about the specific meanings of words!):
Yukari doesn't necessarily fear Shikieki. She leaves because "they're no match for her." according to Yukari (actual official quote). That doesn't necessarily mean fear. It could simply be a statement of fact (on topic: Either way, that statement probably doesn't have anything to do with the number of stages in PoFV. ...probably).
If Yukari really does emotionally fear Shikieki, it's likely for the same reason most youkai do. Getting lectured by Shikieki is incredibly annoying, especially for youkai (who generally are more carefree and reckless than humans are, even if Shikieiki is considerate enough to judge them by a youkai moral code instead of a human one)
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Fear has least to do with powerlevel, though. Given Zeus'power, I will still fear my dad. Yukari is a youkai, no matter how strong she is, while Shikieiki is the Judge of Hell. If you watched Bao Zheng, you'd understand what I mean. Shikieiki has an aura that shuts most youkai up, and an intelligent one like Yukari or Eirin would know best not to be impolite towards her.
Yuuka is an airhead and Cirno is too stupid.
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I also heard that it's partly because even their abilities aren't a good match in the first place; like oil and water.
While Yukari can make the boundaries vague and fiddle with them, Shikieiki can set them straight... Thus Yukari's power of borders can't be used against Shikieiki.
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So in other words, this (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/409839/)? (bluh bluh, danbooru)
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Yuuka is an airhead and Cirno is too stupid.
Whimsical and childish.
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Is Marisa Tasofro's favorite character or what? Their non-canonical Touhou games (Super Marisa Land, Mega Mari, and New Super Marisa Land) all have Marisa as the main character.
Can anyone please answer this?
Thanks in advance!
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Kind of a weird way to ask that considering Tasofro is a group and not a person.
Marisa is easy to place into any given situation and have it still work. Reimu just the same. Marisa just seems to appeal to the fanbase more, and more than probably the guys form Tasofro do like Marisa. But it isn't like anyone can give any supreme evidence of such; it isn't like they just revealed one day that HEY GUYS WE LIKE MARISAWWWW
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I'd add that Tasofro isn't alone in this. Many Touhou doujin games employ Marisa is at least one of the playable characters, even sometimes the only playable character. I don't think there's any collusion involved. She, along with Reimu, pretty much are the Touhou trademarks.
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Still, it's weird that Reimu sometimes either gets reduced to being a minor character or gets left out entirely when she is the actual main character...
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Yeah, well, see above. :V
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Hey, when Marisa is Master Sparking you in IN St. 4, how much can you touch it before exploding?
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Just past the solid white. Why did you not try this yourself.
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Just past the solid white. Why did you not try this yourself.
Pffft, I wasn't going to go anywhere near it.
I still suck at Touhou.
......
Waaaaaait
Maaan! I forgot about practice mode
i feel so stupid right now
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Qs on Koishi:
-Did she have the ability to manipulate the subconscious before she closed off her eye? Or was that an effect of that?
-Are all of Koishi's actions from her subconscious? Like she's basically sleep-everything'ing, or reality is dreamlike to her.
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1. I'm reasonably certain that it was a side-effect of closing her Third Eye (given that people feared her more afterwards).
2. Not sure; it's certainly a reasonably-popular fan-theory, as far as I can tell.
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Okay, I tried to look a little closer at the Wiki, and there's some sort of inconsistency here. Now I can't figure a thing out. :ohdear:
Here's what the character profile translation says:
However, knowing that people don't like having their minds read, Koishi closed the third eye that gave her the ability to manipulate the subconscious.
Koishi used to be able to read minds, and could already manipulate the subconscious.
As a result, she lost her ability to read others' hearts, but in return she gained the ability to take action unconsciously.
She gained the ability to act unconsciously after closing off her heart.
But if it was her heart that could manipulate the subconscious, and she sealed it off, doesn't that mean she can't do that any more? She should only have the ability to act unconsciously now.
It seems the generally accepted idea is as written in the character summary for her page:
She wanted to avoid the hate and dislike which Satori experienced due to her mindreading abilities, so she sealed away her own Third Eye. This backfired, since she gained the ability to read and manipulate people's subconscious, an even greater ability.
But this still conflicts with the fact that the translation says her Third Eye was the source of her subconscious manipulation.
(given that people feared her more afterwards).
Could I get a source of that info? The translation says:
The denizens of the underground no longer hated her, but at the same time, they never feared her and animals no longer loved her.
I am utterly confused right now. ;_;
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Well, in other words, Koishi became a non-existence, she is there, but no one knows, no one cares. Even if she burns them with fire, they'd still think that the fire started from nowhere.
I think she's like the wind, and everyone loves the wind.
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There is a mistake in the translation.
However, knowing that people don't like having their minds read, Koishi closed the third eye that gave her the ability to manipulate the subconscious.
should be
However, knowing that people don't like having their minds read, Koishi closed the third eye that gave her the ability to read minds.
The Japanese:
しかし心を読む事で嫌われる事を知り、こいしは心を読む第三の眼を閉ざしてしまった。
心を読む should be "read minds" not "manipulate the subconscious"
Then everything makes sense.
She used to be able to read minds, then she closed off her third eye,
and after that, she gained the ability to manipulate subconscious as a result.
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Lemme get this straight, because I just read it and it's bugging me, now, too.
Open Third Eye: Read minds.
Closed Third Eye: Manipulate subconscious.
Right? Maybe?
And while I'm at it, a few SDM questions that've likely been asked before.
From what I've read in the PMiSS article, the SDM moved from the outside world. I'm guessing it came shortly before the events of EoSD. Is there any given reason why (or, honestly, how) it came to Gensokyo? And did the entire island (it's said to be on an isle) come, or just the mansion?
Also, after reading some about it on the wiki, I decided to quote Hermes Conrad: "That just raises further questions!"
* Is Patchouli one of the staff, or just a guest of Remilia's? And - because I know crap-all about the Extra Stage - is she the EX-Midboss because of the library being in (or near or something) the basement?
* Finally, are Flandre's wings organic (through some sort of weird mutation, perhaps) or artificial? And did she make them herself?
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Open Third Eye: Read minds.
Closed Third Eye: Manipulate subconscious.
Think of it as Open: Consciousness, Closed: Unconsciousness
From what I've read in the PMiSS article, the SDM moved from the outside world. I'm guessing it came shortly before the events of EoSD. Is there any given reason why (or, honestly, how) it came to Gensokyo? And did the entire island (it's said to be on an isle) come, or just the mansion?
The SDM appeared in Gensokyo sometime around the Vampire Incident, but it hasn't been revealed if Remilia was always the owner of the mansion, or if the mansion has been there for a while. Akyu thinks Remi came to Gensokyo after the Incident, but that isn't confirmed either.
* Is Patchouli one of the staff, or just a guest of Remilia's? And - because I know crap-all about the Extra Stage - is she the EX-Midboss because of the library being in (or near or something) the basement?
Patchouli is Remilia's friend. She's about 100 years old, so I might guess that their families were connected somehow. When Flandre got out of the basement to find someone to play with, Patchouli made it rain so Flan couldn't get out. Sakuya was with Remilia and Patchouli was feeling not-sick that day, so I imagine she was pretty high up in defending the mansion. Patchouli gets pretty powerful when she isn't sick.
* Finally, are Flandre's wings organic (through some sort of weird mutation, perhaps) or artificial? And did she make them herself?
Nobody knows.
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Patchouli is Remilia's friend. She's about 100 years old, so I might guess that their families were connected somehow. When Flandre got out of the basement to find someone to play with, Patchouli made it rain so Flan couldn't get out. Sakuya was with Remilia and Patchouli was feeling not-sick that day, so I imagine she was pretty high up in defending the mansion. Patchouli gets pretty powerful when she isn't sick.
Huh. That's what I get for watching a Let's (kinda) Play Touhou 6 one time. I never noticed the dialogue bit about her making it rain.
Thanks much!
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I know the fanon-consensus is that Remilia's always had the mansion. For one thing, Flandre's "in the basement for 495 years" wouldn't make a whole lot of sense otherwise. As for why they moved to Gensokyo, we're talking about Remilia here. She doesn't need any reason other than "cuz I wanna." For Pachouli's part, she doesn't need any reason besides "Dude, Gensokyo? Awesome!" (Akyu mentions (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Sorcerer) that it's a lot easier to learn magic more quickly in Gensokyo.)
And I don't remember seeing anything about Patchouli making it rain. Could you be more specific on that? ???
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====================================================================
2. Extra Story
====================================================================
The backstory of Extra Stage.
Touhou Koumakyou (Scarlet Devil Insanity) ~ Sister of Scarlet.
Good weather graces Gensokyo today.
Peace was supposed to grace Gensokyo today.
The young girl clad in black felt uneasy today for some reason,
and therefore headed to the shrine.
Marisa: It's so hot, I'm gonna die here.
Reimu: If you die, I'll feed your corpse to the birds.
Remilia: My, it'd be fine if you'd let me take care of that.
Marisa: That's a definite no.
For some reason the scarlet devil was there,
yet it was the usual.
Marisa: Is it alright to leave your house so much?
Remilia: I leave it to Sakuya, so it's fine.
Reimu: Chances are it's not fine, so go home now.
At that moment, a frightening clap of thunder shocked the three.
Reimu: A shower, huh.
Marisa: Unusual at this time.
Remilia: But I can't walk in the rain.
After a few moments have passed, rain did not visit;
it was clear enough that the sky was unnatural just by
looking outside.
Fierce rain and snow hailed only a single deep area of Gensokyo.
Remilia: Oh?
It seems the rain is only falling around me.
Reimu: Looks that way, maybe you've been cursed?
Marisa: She was cursed to begin with.
Remilia: This is troublesome,
in this state I can't possibly return.
Reimu: Or maybe they made it so you can't head home?
Marisa: You've finally been kicked out.
Remilia: Rather than making a situation where I can't head home,
it's more like...
Marisa: ...Making a situation where something can't get out?
Reimu: You've been kicked out after all.
Remilia: Either way, I can't go back.
What should I do about my meals? (Meals = Humans)
Reimu: I might as well go check it out.
Marisa: Sounds like fun.
And so, the two left the scarlet devil to take care of the
shrine while they headed towards Remilia's mansion.
Remilia: Ah, that's it, I forgot about that.
Patchouli is definitely trying to stop her
from escaping (with rain).
The devil tilted her head and leaned her cheek against
her right hand.
Remilia: This is troubling, neither I nor her can move in rain...
Rain will not allow even a single part of devils to walk.
Eh, seems like Sakuya was in fact at the mansion. Wonder what she was doing.
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I know the fanon-consensus is that Remilia's always had the mansion. For one thing, Flandre's "in the basement for 495 years" wouldn't make a whole lot of sense otherwise. As for why they moved to Gensokyo, we're talking about Remilia here. She doesn't need any reason other than "cuz I wanna." For Pachouli's part, she doesn't need any reason besides "Dude, Gensokyo? Awesome!" (Akyu mentions (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Sorcerer) that it's a lot easier to learn magic more quickly in Gensokyo.)
... y'know, now that I think about it, that makes a lot of sense.
Drake: Maybe trying to fix up anything Flan may've broken?
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Alright, this may have been answered already, but I've been reading Kaguya's wiki page several times and still don't understand one thing: what, exactly, did Eirin do with the moon?
From Kaguya's official profile:
Kaguya had a discussion with Eirin, then decided to defend Reisen from the moon's emissaries. But if they kill the emissaries, they'll have to go into hiding for a long time again. If only there was a way to make it impossible for the emissaries to reach them, then they would never have to hide again.
Just as Kaguya was about to finish speaking, Eirin presented her solution.
"If we remove the full moon from Earth, then the path between Earth and the Moon will be closed. A full moon from Earth is what makes it possible for them to come here. That's why the Lunarians only visit on nights with a full moon. If we corrupt that full moon... Earth will become a large, sealed chamber."
Thus, they hid the true moon from Earth, replacing it with a fake moon that will never be full.
So, did Eirin shut away the entire moon itself, in a corridor, with Kaguya? Wouldn't that put Kaguya in even greater danger of being found by the Lunarians? This profile seems to make a distinction between the full moon and other phases, as if the full moon were a separate moon. How did Eirin seal away just the true full moon?
Any explanation that breaks this entire thing down would be appreciated.
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Ok here is my attempt at explaining it.
1. the moon seen on Earth is the desolate moon, not the true moon; there is a border or something separating them
2. when the Earth moon reaches full moon, the border between Earth moon and true moon opens up
3. this allows the lunarians to reach Earth
4. so, Eirin sealed away the Earth moon in a chamber, so that there is an additional barrier blocking access
5. but then removing the moon entirely would arouse suspicion, so Eirin put up a fake moon that isn't full
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wait I don't get one thing... Why are vampires weak in the rain?? what does water have to do with Vampires (Unless it's holy water :derp: )?
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Ok here is my attempt at explaining it.
1. the moon seen on Earth is the desolate moon, not the true moon; there is a border or something separating them
2. when the Earth moon reaches full moon, the border between Earth moon and true moon opens up
3. this allows the lunarians to reach Earth
4. so, Eirin sealed away the Earth moon in a chamber, so that there is an additional barrier blocking access
5. but then removing the moon entirely would arouse suspicion, so Eirin put up a fake moon that isn't full
However, what sparks the interest of the Lunarians is that human beings are landing on the moon, planting a flag on it and such. If there really were a false moon that we see, and a true moon, invisible to human eyes where the Lunarians live, humans would have landed on the false moon, and not the true one.
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wait I don't get one thing... Why are vampires weak in the rain?? what does water have to do with Vampires (Unless it's holy water :derp: )?
Vampires have a whole slew of weaknesses; one of them happens to be that they can't cross running water. If you consider that all that rain has to be draining out to somewhere, it basically counts as running water everywhere. So yeah.
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However, what sparks the interest of the Lunarians is that human beings are landing on the moon, planting a flag on it and such. If there really were a false moon that we see, and a true moon, invisible to human eyes where the Lunarians live, humans would have landed on the false moon, and not the true one.
They DID land on the false moon, actually. It's just that their planting of the flag on the moon was the equivalent of saying "This moon belongs to us (humans), now.", which sparked the war.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate:_Third_Chapter
"It was a rumor that was popular lately among the rabbits. It seems to have started from the news that the flag that had been planted on the light side of the moon - which we called the Apollo flag - had disappeared"
("the light side" is the false side)
Actually, from that chapter and from Kaguya's profile, I think in the end the lunarians may not have gone to war with earth on the moon after all. The CiLR chapter seems to indicate war was GOING to happen and that's what put the Watsatsuki sisters under suspicion, and Kaguya's profile indicates that they haven't declared war on the humans YET but were just about to.
And then the flag dissappeared, which possibly meant that the war ended up being cancelled before it ever started.
(interestingly enough, Eientei has the flag now, as revealed in BAiJR. I think it was mentioned somewhere that it was just knocked off the moon and fell to Eientei, but my memory could be wrong)
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They DID land on the false moon, actually. It's just that their planting of the flag on the moon was the equivalent of saying "This moon belongs to us (humans), now.", which sparked the war.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate:_Third_Chapter
"It was a rumor that was popular lately among the rabbits. It seems to have started from the news that the flag that had been planted on the light side of the moon - which we called the Apollo flag - had disappeared"
("the light side" is the false side)
Actually, from that chapter and from Kaguya's profile, I think in the end the lunarians may not have gone to war with earth on the moon after all. The CiLR chapter seems to indicate war was GOING to happen and that's what put the Watsatsuki sisters under suspicion, and Kaguya's profile indicates that they haven't declared war on the humans YET but were just about to.
Oh, right. Forgot about that bit.
But that still leaves the question of what exactly Eirin did with the moon. Because right now, I can't figure out if there are two moons - a real and a false one, or a full moon which is different from the others, or if the light side and dark side are two separate moons.
Maybe I'm missing something totally obvious, but it seems like there's some confusion here.
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Well from either SSiB or CiLR, as I remembered (please confirm this), if it's not a full moon, even if you get to the dark side, it would just look as desolate as the light side. So, I think there are actually two moons superimposed in the exact same place, but a border of some sort, like the Hakurei border, separates the false moon from the true moon. That border opens up (or dissolves) in the full moon, and when that happens the 2 moons fuse together into 1 moon that is connected to the earth.
Concluding from that, Eirin could just "seal the moon in a chamber" by putting a border around the false moon and making a door in Eientei as the only way to get to it (similar to Yukari's gaps). This way, not even the lunarians can get to it because of Eirin's border.
There is a hole in the argument though: why not just seal the Eientei in a border if Eirin can seal a moon?
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Eientei used to be sealed in a border of sorts (Kaguya's eternity powers made it eternally unchanging). I forget what triggered it to be unsealed by Kaguya's power, though.
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Well from either SSiB or CiLR, as I remembered (please confirm this), if it's not a full moon, even if you get to the dark side, it would just look as desolate as the light side. So, I think there are actually two moons superimposed in the exact same place, but a border of some sort, like the Hakurei border, separates the false moon from the true moon. That border opens up (or dissolves) in the full moon, and when that happens the 2 moons fuse together into 1 moon that is connected to the earth.
Concluding from that, Eirin could just "seal the moon in a chamber" by putting a border around the false moon and making a door in Eientei as the only way to get to it (similar to Yukari's gaps). This way, not even the lunarians can get to it because of Eirin's border.
There is a hole in the argument though: why not just seal the Eientei in a border if Eirin can seal a moon?
OK, this ... actually makes sense. Or at least, sense for Gensokyo.
Also, I think I can answer your question wrt the hole in the arugment: the new residents of Eientei were not aware that they were effectively shielded from sight.
And then the flag dissappeared, which possibly meant that the war ended up being cancelled before it ever started.
(interestingly enough, Eientei has the flag now, as revealed in BAiJR. I think it was mentioned somewhere that it was just knocked off the moon and fell to Eientei, but my memory could be wrong)
Actually, not only does Eientei have the flag, they even put it on display (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Article_and_Interview:_Kaguya).
Exhibitions that are planned include: moon rocks, the flag the humans left on the moon, display items and other relics that emphasize the glory of the moon, and a show that demonstrates how moon rabbits normally pound mochi.
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Is there an unofficial list of Touhou bullet hell games from easiest to hardest? Just curious.
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Of what i've seen , the order is something like this (i really don't remenber)
Normal Mode:
LLS<IN<MS<PCB<MoF<EoSD<UFO<SA
Lunatic Mode:
LLS<<PCB<MS<MoF<..I don't remenber.. maybe EoSD <IN<SA<UFO
anyway, this very ambigous and in reality is very hard to place them in order, since it depend on you,(some people say UFO normal is
harder than SA, some says MoF lunatic is not in the easiest.
Oh, and Have someone in the world captured the Gengetsu Rape Time?
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For the most part, ranking games by difficulty varies widely depending on the player. Normal and Lunatic difficulties will have different rankings, and that's not even saying that the player is a Normal or Lunatic player. A Lunatic player playing Normal will have a different ranking than a Normal playing Normal, or Normal playing Lunatic, etc. Depends on personal preferences, how the games play on different computers (input lag, etc). Far too many factors to have anything resembling a conclusive list.
Do you mean "captured" as in activated the timeout phase, then timed it out perfectly, or activated the timeout phase at full health, then captured it?
Either way, I don't think it's been done.
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For the most part, ranking games by difficulty varies widely depending on the player.
Seconded. Lunatic EoSD seems so much easier (to the point where it's "I might just 1cc" vs "unimaginably hard") compared to the others for me, but my bias stems from having played EoSD lunatic for 8 months while only playing lunatic mode in other games for lulz (well, I've put a bit more effort into IN, but it's still a long way off).
There are just way too many factors affecting the perceived difficulty that it's hard to judge exactly which one is harder than which.
Do you mean "captured" as in activated the timeout phase, then timed it out perfectly, or activated the timeout phase at full health, then captured it?
Either way, I don't think it's been done.
Which one is shorter? :V but honestly it looks pretty impossible.
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A few questions.
What is the Stage 4 theme in Lion Heart's Mystical Chain based on?
I can't name any paticular music in the Windows Series. Maybe it is from PC-98?
What are the freqently used Spell Card abbreviations?
Words like VoWG, and a few others really makes me confused.
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What is the Stage 4 theme in Lion Heart's Mystical Chain based on?
EoSD Stage 6 (Final) Theme: The Young Descendant of Tepes
What are the freqently used Spell Card abbreviations?
Words like VoWG, and a few others really makes me confused.
"VoWG" is probably one of the most frequently used (if not the only frequently used) abbreviation and it is an abbreviation of (Divine)* Virtue of Wind God.
*This may have been an error and was not "fixed" (according to the wiki) until after the english patch released
In the general sense, abbreviations are used for Spell Card names which come out into multiple words or are a really big handful to type out, the previous being an example, as well as others such as "VoPB" (Vajra of Perfect Buddhism) and "KO(i)3S" (Knock Out in 3 Steps). Other... abbreviations take one key word such as Spell Cards #35-38 (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Subterranean_Animism:_Stage_3_Spell_Cards8) being abbreviated to the much smaller (Mt.) Ooe.
Then there are other things that would be essentially nicknames, one particular case would be Spell Cards #131-134 (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Subterranean_Animism:_Stage_5_Spell_Cards) (more specifically, the last two seeing as it's such a handful to write out) being dubbed "Ghost Wheels" (or variations thereof e.g. GOAST WHEELZ and others) for reasons that should be obvious.
Which one is shorter? :V but honestly it looks pretty impossible.
The latter. It's interesting to also note that I have "captured" the attack by weakening the final phase down to a sliver of health, waited for the mentioned phase to come, shoot and then dodge for a whole second or two.
Though, seeing as you're probably looking at either a "Full Health" capture / timeout, I'm going to have to say that there are no legitimate attempts at the attack that would be considered "successful" (with regard to the conditions defined) at this point.
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For the most part, ranking games by difficulty varies widely depending on the player.
True.
anyway, this very ambigous and in reality is very hard to place them in order, since it depend on you.
Also note that I have "captured" the attack by weakening the final phase down to a sliver of health, waited for the mentioned phase to come, shoot and then dodge for a whole second or two.
I'm Happy knowing that someone "captured" the GRT, and it's true that capturing it by timing out should(or must) be imposible.
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EoSD Stage 6 (Final) Theme: The Young Descendant of Tepes
What the....
No wonder I didn't get it. The original is as vague as the remix, and it's also one of my least heard songs.
Thanks a lot.
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Where can I find a good doujinshi touhou site??? The new Gensokyo.org sucks... I don't know what I want to download by an artist name!!! and it seems shrinemaiden.pestermon.com doesn't exist anymore D8!!! or for the time being but you never know...
DX Please help!
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Try the Touhou wiki maybe?
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To tell you the truth, I dislike Chinese subtitles even I am a Chinese. I was searching for Touhou M-1 Grand Prix videos (The third and the fourth), but ended up found nothing. Hey, can you guys show me where I can find the full version of the third and the fourth Touhou M-1 Grand Prix videos? I want English subbed version. Thanks.
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What happened to the Touhou Livestream thread? Either I overlooked it about six or so times, haven't been looking in the right place, or it disappeared...
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To tell you the truth, I dislike Chinese subtitles even I am a Chinese. I was searching for Touhou M-1 Grand Prix videos (The third and the fourth), but ended up found nothing. Hey, can you guys show me where I can find the full version of the third and the fourth Touhou M-1 Grand Prix videos? I want English subbed version. Thanks.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Touhou_M-1_Grand_Prix
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http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Touhou_M-1_Grand_Prix
Were there judging scenes for all 4 M-1s or just the most recent one?
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YO.
I got a question. I heard from a friend of mine at college saying that ZUN helps with other people doujin games. I though He worked with his doujin games (Touhou Project 1 thru 12.8 Plus help compose music for the Fighting game) but I wouldn't think we would help other make their own Touhou doujin game. I'm Wondering if this is true?
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Well, he's worked with Tasofro for the fighting games, did music for the Seihou games, and I think also did music for Uwabami Breakers. But I don't know how you would go about contracting him for help.
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The whole engine of Uwabami Breakers is pretty much MoF's. The only track ZUN did for that game was A Drunkard's Lemuria.
He's also composed a couple tracks for Touhou Unreal Mahjong (AN ORDEAL FROM GOD), but I'm not sure if he did anything else.
He hasn't helped too many people, afaik. Maybe just stuff he likes/occasionally with his drinking buds as a joke?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHEs0UiYfrA&feature=sub
IF this is a PV, then fine, but you could prolly make speculation of a new incoming fan-made single episode?
i would kindly appretice any research about it.
thank you.
[matsuri]Merged with misc. questions thread[/matsuri]
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Ever tried Google translate?
Or tried asking the topic http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5980.0.html (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5980.0.html)
Is is getting released today?
I guessing it's a hoax.
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This is supposedly a Reitaisai SP release. This seems to be the authors site (http://manpukujinja.blog135.fc2.com/), but I'm not seeing any other info on it.
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A question about LION HEART's newest game starring Sanae and Utsuho, "Sanae Challenge! FUSION"
What is the highest rank the player can get? There seems to be something missing.
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I have a question regarding locations. I know Chireiden (Earth Spirit Palace) is underground, but where is the entrance to the underground itself, or is there more than one entrance? Also, where is the Netherworld? I know there is a way in because the player gets in there in PCB, but where is the entrance? Asking around in IRC told me there's a door in the clouds, but how does one get there? Are these clouds in Gensoukyou (in its sky) or somewhere else?
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I have a question regarding locations. I know Chireiden (Earth Spirit Palace) is underground, but where is the entrance to the underground itself, or is there more than one entrance? Also, where is the Netherworld? I know there is a way in because the player gets in there in PCB, but where is the entrance? Asking around in IRC told me there's a door in the clouds, but how does one get there? Are these clouds in Gensoukyou (in its sky) or somewhere else?
Entrance to Chireiden - Who knows? All we know for sure is that The entrance is a cave existing somewhere in Gensoukyou.
Nether World - PCB Stage 4, the background of the place you fight the Prism Rivers, from there on exist countless steps to the Hakugyokurou
...Or so these things are told...
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And where is the place you fight the Prismrivers? I haven't played PCB yet. Do you actually fight them in the mansion where they were created and where is it, or...?
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And where is the place you fight the Prismrivers? I haven't played PCB yet. Do you actually fight them in the mansion where they were created and where is it, or...?
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Prismriver
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I have a question regarding locations. I know Chireiden (Earth Spirit Palace) is underground, but where is the entrance to the underground itself, or is there more than one entrance? Also, where is the Netherworld? I know there is a way in because the player gets in there in PCB, but where is the entrance? Asking around in IRC told me there's a door in the clouds, but how does one get there? Are these clouds in Gensoukyou (in its sky) or somewhere else?
I was always under the impression that they would climb down the hole that the earth spirits were leaking out of. And then again, there was a hot spring there, so so much for that theory :(
As for the Netherworld, I'm assuming it's past some snowy field place near the Forest of Magic. You've got Mayhioga in St. 2 and some barren place in St. 3, but then it just sort of fades into this black swirly hell in St. 4. Good question, actually.
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Netherworld may be a different world, hence the name. That door is just the entrance, Netherworld doesn't necessarily exist on the sky.
I think the Underground is pretty big with many entrances. Maybe you can find one in Europe and go to meet Satori and climb up to Gensokyo too.
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Well, I'm basically writing a fanfic, and I wanted to know if/how a messenger butterfly could get from Chireiden to the Netherworld, and if doing so requires it to pass through Gensoukyou itself. Also, I wanted to know how hard it is for a living mortal to pass through the barrier around it that SHOULD prevent living people from entering (And completely prevents those without death like Mokou from entering). Reimu, Marisa and Sakuya had no problem entering in PCB, but...
Der. *Headdesk* Yukari weakened the barrier. Okay, so I'll assume that any youkai with sufficient power can enter the Netherworld?
At the moment, I'm thinking Gensoukyou exists in 'layers'. So the Underground is under Gensoukyou but just above Hell, while the Netherworld is located above Gensoukyou but under Heaven (Or wherever it is Celestials come from). Makai would be somewhere between Hell and the Underground, and there're barriers/borders/whatnot preventing accidental discovery or entrance (The Sanzu river for Hell, the vents for the Underground, the barrier for the Netherworld etc.). How accurate would this model be?
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Finding a gate to the Netherworld doesn't require going to Gensokyo. Maribel and Renko find one and they weren't in Gensokyo at the time (as far as we know, anyways. It wasn't until afterwards that Renko proposed going to the Hakurei shrine)
ZUN confirms that Maribel and Renko actually DID find the Netherworld in his comments to one of Kaguya's spell cards in Imperishable Night. Sadly, he purposefully and explicitly states it's a mystery what they actually saw there, so whether or not you can actually ENTER the Netherworld without going to Gensokyo is unknown. Just that you can see into it, at the very least. ...probably. If you have a person along who comes from a clan where seeing borders is in the bloodline. ......well, he did say it was a mystery as to what they actually saw.
(of course, as you've pointed out, one of the main reasons it's possible to travel to the Netherworld in Gensokyo is because Yukari weakened the barrier. Unless she did so for any potential barriers between the Netherworld and the real world as well, it is less likely you'd be able to enter the Netherworld from there)
Of note is that Akyu specifically states the Sanzu river (where souls get ferried to the Netherworld) is not actually part of Gensokyo. ...if I recall correctly. The Netherworld is the land of the dead for EVERYONE, not just Gensokyans, after all (which is pointed out in Shiki's section, where it's stated that Shiki is the yama most known in Gensokyo simply because she's the yama in charge of juding those particular residents, implying other yamas manage other parts of the world/universe/continuity/whatever)
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Hmm... I know that ALL dead go through Shiki, and she then judges them based on their deeds. Her judgement determines where they get sent; Heaven, the Netherworld or Hell. (Source: Perfect Memento In Strict Sense (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Netherworld)) In my fic, I was going by the assumption that 'technically', the Netherworld (And its 'official' entrance) lies across the Sanzu River. However, I'm not sure how accurate this is. Especially since the player can enter the Netherworld without crossing the Sanzu in PCB.
The link Tsukiko gave me on the Prismriver sisters say that they tried to stop the PCs from entering the Netherworld, and if I recall correctly you fight Youmu on the stairs that lead up to Hakugyoukurou itself. The transcript from the game (Reimu's route (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Cherry_Blossom:_Reimu's_Scenario) at any rate) show that she was 'flying high in the sky towards where cherry blossoms were falling'.
Ah stuff it. It's a fanfic anyways. I'll just make up a plausible theory from what I know and ask anyone who criticizes that if they can find better. xD
Current theory: The Netherworld lies on a separate plan from Gensoukyou. Yukari's barrier is what prevents mortals from accidentally stumbling into it. The dead that still live in Gensoukyou can enter by way of the Endless Stair high in the clouds above Gensoukyou which mortals cannot see or enter. The dead who are judged are sent there through another entrance located across the Sanzu River. However, ever since Yukari weakened the barrier, living mortals can enter the Netherworld. Since crossing the Sanzu is forbidden for the living, the only way for living mortals to enter the Netherworld is via the Endless Stair above the clouds. And that's assuming that one knows where to find it.
Would that theory work?
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I think they go around the Sanzu, in that case :D
What do you think? Stage 3 doesn't seem to serve too much of a purpose.
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"Apparently", it's common knowledge that Cirno is pronounced "Cheer-no". I know that her name in Japanese is Chiruno and is a play on words of 'chill' since she's an ice fairy, but why is her name translated as Cirno? If people really want this "true" pronunciation to be more widespread, why not have her name be spelled Chirno?
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Because ZUN spells it "Cirno" in every game?
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I didn't know it was pronouned "cheer-no."
I've always pronounced it "seer-no."
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...And this question isn't about pronunciation.
You can spell her name 'Chillno' if you want to, but people may throw rocks at you.
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From the Japanese PCB.
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3043/japanesepcbcirno.png)
lol ZUN and anything involving the roman alphabet.
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Cirno = Chiruno
Shameimaru = Syameimaru
???
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While Cirno's name is written in katakana, it's one name that I find should probably be pronounced as if it were in "japanese", not english. I don't think it's even been confirmed that her name is indeed a pun (although it probably is). ZUN surely knows enough english that if he were making a pun, he could show it. Having her name being Cirno isn't really a mistake, I think.
Her name is Cirno and チルノ. You can't change her name to suit how english-speakers "should" be pronouncing it. Just keep pronouncing it the proper way and leave it be. These music notes are here for a reason, people. (http://images.wikia.com/touhou/images/a/ab/Pronunciation_Cirno.ogg)
Cirno = Chiruno
Shameimaru = Syameimaru
Not too sure what you're getting at, but sha and sya are just different ways to romanize the same syllable, whereas ci isn't present in any method.
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I've seen instances in which Ci was used instead of Chi. I think. I could have been dreaming.
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I, for some strange reason, have always pronounced it 'Shi-ru-no'. I have NO idea why.
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About a year or two back, there was a .xls file with a bunch of translated info for a doujin Tactics-style RPG called Quadruple Fantasy Sword ~ Tenshi's Counterattack. I've been searching high and low for the spreadsheet, but all I've managed to find is the old 404'd link to the Pooshlmer thread that used to exist back then. Would anyone happen to have the spreadsheet on hand or know where I can find it?
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I've seen instances in which Ci was used instead of Chi. I think. I could have been dreaming.
Mainly in behind-the-scenes stuff, I think, like sprite names. Hah, get it. Like, you know, a sprite. Like a fairyokay nevermind.
But in-game, it's never used.
So, I once saw this cute, repetitive little video of Mokou and Keine pounding mochi or something, but I can't find it anymore. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, could I have a link?
EDIT: Wait... Why does the subject of this message... ?
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Does Alice use strings to control her dolls or does she use something like telekinesis? From what I've seen in the fighting games, she seems to use both. Can anyone please clarify?
Thanks in advance!
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To quote PMiSS
It isn't magic that gives life to the dolls, but magic that allows the user to control them with a thread of magic, so long distance manipulation is very difficult.
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So she relies on strings, right? Or does the magic thread refers to thread made of magical energy and not actual threads?
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I believe it's the latter.
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Seeing how her dolls follow her around in air as if they are not controlled by anything, I was somewhat under the assumption that it was something similar to telekinesis, but she has to move her arms and fingers in order to make them do something.
Anyway, thanks!
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I remember reading (somewhere) that Meiling is better at martial arts than danmaku, but is it ever said specifically which style(s) she practices? Alternatively, what discipline does her moveset from the fighting games most resemble?
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PMiSS claims that it's likely Tai Chi Chuan.
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Here goes a quickie
Why is there a hidden name with real low opacity in SWR's credits?
And what is that name, anyway?
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screenshot plz
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screenshot plz
I think I found it. Is this it, Linnah?
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/33/swrcredits.th.png) (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/33/swrcredits.png)
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Oh, it's actually like that in the image file.
From Tasofro's blog：
■マンボーイって誰
マンボーイは架空の生物であり、あのようなキャラは黄昏内に存在しません。
スタッフロールに書かれているのは幻想です。
とのこと。わざとあのように薄くしたのだと思います。マンボーイについてはよく分かりませんね。
関係ないマンボーイかもしれませんが、Googleで検索すると仮面をかぶった変な男の人が出ている動画がありました。
それにしても、よくあんなに薄いの気がつきましたね・・・
I can't really understand what it says, though.
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half minute translations:
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/33/swrcredits.th.png) (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/33/swrcredits.png)
The really thin name says マンボーイ (Manboy or something like that in English I suppose...)
Oh, it's actually like that in the image file.
From Tasofro's blog：
■マンボーイって誰
マンボーイは架空の生物であり、あのようなキャラは黄昏内に存在しません。
スタッフロールに書かれているのは幻想です。
とのこと。わざとあのように薄くしたのだと思います。マンボーイについてはよく分かりませんね。
関係ないマンボーイかもしれませんが、Googleで検索すると仮面をかぶった変な男の人が出ている動画がありました。
それにしても、よくあんなに薄いの気がつきましたね・・・
I can't really understand what it says, though.
-Who is Manboy?
Manboy is a make belief living thing and there is no such character like that within Tasogare.
What's written on the staff role is only an illusion.
Or so they say. So I guess that's why they made it that thin. I don't have the slightest of ideas what Manboy is.
It might be totally unrelated, but when I searched on Google, I found a video of a strange man with a mask on.
But still, I'm amazed that people found something that thin...
...So... nothing solved? =X
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Well, I suppose that's why I couldn't make any sense of what they said rofl
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Is there any difference between th10 and th125 versions of "Youkai Mountain ~ Mysterious Mountain"?
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Well, it has been some time since I've asked something here, but here goes:
(I doubt there will be a proper answer for this buuuut...)
:CAUTION: QUESTION DUMP :CAUTION:
Where does magic come from in Gensokyo? The border was made to make sure magic, youkai and everything else mystical keeps existing. Is the amount of magic available in the world based on how much people believe in magic? And is there 'magic in the air'? As, in, do magical beings use magic by tapping into magic in their suroundings? Or are magical beings each their own source of magic, producing it themselves withing their bodies? I think I heard somewhere youkai get their magic power from the moon and Marisa gets her power from mushrooms. Mikos of course get their power from the gods while gods themselves get power from faith. We know gods disappear if they run out of faith, but would youkai disappear too if their is no more believe in magic and/or if they are separated from the light of the moon too long? Gensokyo seems to be a place where the world's magic is collected, yet on the moon there is more than enough magic too.
Could it possibly that there has always been magic everywhere, but humans just forgot how to use it? But then why are youkai threatened to disappear if the border collapses? Or will youkai be perfectly fine even when the border goes down?
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Is there any difference between th10 and th125 versions of "Youkai Mountain ~ Mysterious Mountain"?
Listen for yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTMKpUaJgwo&fmt=22)
Left Channel: MoF
Right Channel: DS
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Where does magic come from in Gensokyo? The border was made to make sure magic, youkai and everything else mystical keeps existing. Is the amount of magic available in the world based on how much people believe in magic? And is there 'magic in the air'? As, in, do magical beings use magic by tapping into magic in their suroundings? Or are magical beings each their own source of magic, producing it themselves withing their bodies? I think I heard somewhere youkai get their magic power from the moon and Marisa gets her power from mushrooms. Mikos of course get their power from the gods while gods themselves get power from faith. We know gods disappear if they run out of faith, but would youkai disappear too if their is no more believe in magic and/or if they are separated from the light of the moon too long? Gensokyo seems to be a place where the world's magic is collected, yet on the moon there is more than enough magic too.
Could it possibly that there has always been magic everywhere, but humans just forgot how to use it? But then why are youkai threatened to disappear if the border collapses? Or will youkai be perfectly fine even when the border goes down?
Touhou.
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Touhou.
Okay, after all these questions that turn out to be unanswerable I realize that fans are allowed to wing it in certain aspects of Touhou 'lore'. Most of the questions I've asked here were all for the purpose of collecting information for possible Touhou fics I might make in the future. That way I'd avoid potential errors. But, considering how loose Touhou is in its rules, I think it wouldn't be that bad if I just used my own theories for certain parts. That's how most Touhou doujins work after all. I'll try and be less of a Canondorf too.
This doesn't mean I won't throw ALL the rules out of the window. I'll still try and stay loyal to the small amount of things that have been officially established, but I won't criticize others with it.
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Now you're getting it.
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Listen for yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTMKpUaJgwo&fmt=22)
Left Channel: MoF
Right Channel: DS
Wow, thanks!!
But, I failed to spot any differences.
Can anybody else help me notice the differences??
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Actually, I was wrong. It was just hard to hear the difference when flatted and stuff in that video; I didn't notice all the differences when just switching between games either.
-Guitar used is different; he switched from VG1 to VG2.
-Harpsichord is different; more twangy in DS
-Entirely different drum line
-Added bass line, much louder
-Clearer and more pronounced piano
. . .
-On second though, all of the instruments have all been changed, they're much sharper as well
-Drum line and bass line are entirely different
-Faster by maybe 2BPM or so
It's essentially a cover of his own song. Until now I had only recognized the added bass line, especially noticeable at the climax of the song, but I never figured the entire song would be changed like this.
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I need to clarify something. The ending art in PoFV was drawn by alphes and not ZUN right?
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I need to clarify something. The ending art in PoFV was drawn by alphes and not ZUN right?
If I remember correctly, for PoFV ZUN was in charge of all the art Except for the coloring.
Thus people from the taso fro team (probably alphes) did the coloring for it.
So the picture it's self should have been drawn by ZUN.
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I've been pondering over this for the past few days. Would fairies be directly considered youkai as well? I usually regarded them as "magical beings" and not youkai per se. One theory I've heard says that they are embodiments of nature itself. Another says they are regular youkai and will try to taste human flesh if they are curious.
So...at the moment, I have no idea WHAT to think of fairies. On the other hand, as Cirno, Star Sapphire, Luna Child and Sunny Milk haven't REALLY shown hints of being interested in devouring humans like hamburgers and hot dogs, maybe they could be considered magical embodiments of nature.
Well, what do you think?
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According to PMiSS, they are a kind of youkai, but they're also considered embodiments of nature. However, they don't eat humans (actually, they don't need to eat at all), but they will try to copy humans and eat their food.
So, both theories are right, but they have no interest in eating people.
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"Youkai" tends to be a catch-all term for any mystical being in Touhou, so yes, I suppose they would.
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Who are "ant" and "Fang", exactly?
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If the air surrounding Cirno is cold, and touching her runs the risk of frostbite, then why can't you run into enemies to kill them?
<I hope to god that doesn't ever become a TH mechanic>
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If the air surrounding Cirno is cold, and touching her runs the risk of frostbite, then why can't you run into enemies to kill them?
<I hope to god that doesn't ever become a TH mechanic>
The Doylist answer is "because game mechanics."
The Watsonian answer is that a midair collision is going to hurt both parties, and bullets hurt more than "getting too close to Cirno."
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Who are "ant" and "Fang", exactly?
I remember reading somewhere that they were game testers for ZUN, but I have no idea just how true that is.
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Sooooo... If Marisa likes flashy magic only, ismthere any reason why she doesn't like thunder/lightning based spells? Isn't that pretty much flashy by definition!?
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Shoot the Moon?
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I remember reading somewhere that they were game testers for ZUN, but I have no idea just how true that is.
I've heard this, and that Ant and Fang were artists. What I'm asking isn't what people heard but what actually is the case.
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Sooooo... If Marisa likes flashy magic only, ismthere any reason why she doesn't like thunder/lightning based spells? Isn't that pretty much flashy by definition!?
She never said that she automatically likes it if it's flashy, just that she doesn't like non-flashy. Marisa's personal style is stars and frickin' huge laser beams; lightning doesn't really fit there.
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I've heard this, and that Ant and Fang were artists. What I'm asking isn't what people heard but what actually is the case.
I made an attempt to find this out for you, but all I turned up were dead ends. 9/10 trails I landed upon led right back to this very forum. Unless someone who knows Japanese can search this out, I'm afraid i can't help you.
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Well, in any other game's credits, if you try searching for anyone under "special thanks" you don't get many relevant results. I guess that's not much different even if they're two-thirds of the entire credits. They're probably just ZUN's friends.
Also, as for the Cirno-running-into-enemies question (and it also applies to all other player characters in the games). Melee attacks are forbidden in danmaku battles. If you run very close to an enemy, it is assumed you are going to use a melee attack, and therefore you are punished for breaking the rules, which is equivalent to one hit.
...or it's just game mechanics. Pick whichever one you want.
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Who are "ant" and "Fang", exactly?
In the little look around I did, all were rumors and nothing gave an answer...
So, I'll just leave the rumors here...
1) Debuggers / game testers
2) ZUN's friends (possibly from work?)
3) ZUN's joke, put them together and...
But personally, I like the Touhou BBS answer to this question, which was:
"If it's touhou, there should be a few unanswered questions"
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But personally, I like the Touhou BBS answer to this question, which was:
"If it's touhou, there should be a few unanswered questions"
I can abide that. Thanks for looking around!
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Black, Brown, or Purple? :3
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depends on her mood i think :P
Theify: Black
Lazy: Brown
ACTUALLY NORMAL: Purple :V
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She never said that she automatically likes it if it's flashy, just that she doesn't like non-flashy. Marisa's personal style is stars and frickin' huge laser beams; lightning doesn't really fit there.
How ironic she's Electric type in Touhoumon then. :V
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Question:
I was wondering if anyone who has Gensou shoujyou taisen (Super Robot Wars, Touhou parody) (http://www.sanbondo.net/gsw01/index.html) might know how to get to the text files inside it and if it's temper-able.
I wanted to see if I can translate this using some of my time that I use for translations anyways...
Or should I make a new post of this in Rika and Nitori's Garage?
Thanks in advance~ =)
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I remember reading an official manga (found it at Touhou Wiki) that is about Tokiko forgetting what her real name is due to Keine's meddling, I think... Anyway, Patchouli gave her a new one, but she doesn't like it and so knocked out the librarian. What was the name that Patchouli gave her again? I can't remember the title of that manga either...
Thanks in advance!
EDIT: She strangled her, not knock her with physical blows.
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Just because it is on the wiki doesn't mean it's canon; the wiki is the repository for many, many doujins.
The doujin is [Altenotiz] What's Your Name? from Crimson Fantasy 2 (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Crimson_Fantasy_2#What.27s_Your_Name.3F).
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I'm aware that not everything on the wiki is canon, though I remember that manga is canon... Must've remembered it wrong.
Anyway, thanks!
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The canon manga are all clearly labeled in the Print Works section on the front page :|
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I think I know what he means.
When you see the (cannon thingy which I cannot remember, I think it was a book), there is a section that says "comics" but I highly doubt those are cannon.
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I think I know what he means.
When you see the (cannon thingy which I cannot remember, I think it was a book), there is a section that says "comics" but I highly doubt those are cannon.
I also doubt this, because comics are comics and cannons blow holes in ships
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canon (n.)
2. A secular law, rule, or code of law.
3a. An established principle: the canons of polite society.
3b. A basis for judgment; a standard or criterion.
5a. A group of literary works that are generally accepted as representing a field: ("the durable canon of American short fiction" (William Styron).)
5b. The works of a writer that have been accepted as authentic: (the entire Shakespeare canon).
cannon (n.)
1. A large mounted weapon that fires heavy projectiles. Cannon include guns, howitzers, and mortars.
2. The loop at the top of a bell by which it is hung.
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So, I wanted to get one of my friends a Touhou product for the upcoming holiday season, preferably one of the official games.
But himeyashop is out of stock on all of the games (haha), so I looked at paletweb, since that stated in that stickied topic, it would be the best place to buy the games.
But I'm kind of turned away by that english, but that's not the issue. How exactly do you order with them? I recall trying to place an order with them before, but I couldn't figure something out. I heard, though, that they email you precise instructions, though, so, am I just missing something?
(Moreover, which game would be best for someone who can get to Nitori in MoF, using no bombs on Normal before game overing?)
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I'm pretty sure most of the people here prefer getting their Touhou games from N-Forza.
Check out the Korindou sticky post under Renko and Maribel's excellent adventure boards. I generally get games from him about 2-4 weeks after I order them (I normally order a few at once, some hard to get a hold of, a zun-made game should be quicker) using snail mail, you can use express postage if you like. Just have paypal, all the details are there.
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Is that so? Alright, thanks for that information. If everyone here would prefer to get games from him, I'll have to go take a look in that thread later.
(also, posting from a phone is tedious)
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I just ordered a couple of games from Palet today, and I didn't find anything odd about it, except that I didn't get a total price from them yet (which will apparantly be emailed in a day or two). Hopefully, the shipping won't be too much...
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Awhile back Fairuzons was one of my favorite posters on youtube, he had an hour long touhou battle with beautiful gimmicks, alot of game footage and one of my favorites was the letalis battle, composed of extremely difficult yet simple red and blue patterns, it had an amazing soundtrack.
At any rate he was banned long ago when his stuff was supposevly stolen (though I know nothing) and it makes me wonder where all the footage was from.
Also ive been looking for the letalis song its been forever, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmLbtY3_dgM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmLbtY3_dgM) basically searching for the full version of the song used in this video.
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The footage wasn't stolen, the scripts were. Half of them were taken from mkm (the creator of DNH) himself, from his website. Others were sporadically stolen from NicoNico where scripts were available. He just took them all and threw them into a giant plural. 90% of his videos were stolen (his music was not, I think), which wouldn't have been much of a problem if he actually explicitly mentioned where his videos came from. He never did, and never corrected anyone who praised "his" videos, which essentially means he was indirectly claiming them as his own. He never admitted to them being stolen, when being confronted about it.
This, coupled with the fact that he has legions of retardedly gullible fans, is why he's so hated. He was banned after repeatedly being reported, and made a new account that steals slightly less yet should still be reported.
Personally if I met him on the street I would punch him square in the face.
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Personally if I met him on the street I would punch him square in the face.
:>
He stole from one of my favorite old creators, TalonPain (http://www.youtube.com/user/TalonPain), who synced his danmaku videos to music from other Nico artists. Of course, Fairuzons changed the music, making these awesome scripts a lot less so. Fairuzons did a lot of this kind of thing in his heyday.
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The footage wasn't stolen, the scripts were. Half of them were taken from mkm (the creator of DNH) himself, from his website. Others were sporadically stolen from NicoNico where scripts were available. He just took them all and threw them into a giant plural. 90% of his videos were stolen (his music was not, I think), which wouldn't have been much of a problem if he actually explicitly mentioned where his videos came from. He never did, and never corrected anyone who praised "his" videos, which essentially means he was indirectly claiming them as his own. He never admitted to them being stolen, when being confronted about it.
This, coupled with the fact that he has legions of retardedly gullible fans, is why he's so hated. He was banned after repeatedly being reported, and made a new account that steals slightly less yet should still be reported.
Personally if I met him on the street I would punch him square in the face.
Well that answers that, but even knowing that his stuff is stolen its hard to find some of these tracks because if they were stolen he probably never wouldve given a lead, and the song im looking for doesnt sound like a touhou arrangement of any kind, nor does it sound familiar from any other game ive played, it makes me wonder if the song along with a few others are permanently lost, which if stolen shouldnt be the case...
I also wonder where you could get most of the content of the 1-hour danmaku queen battle
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What's the significance of the name "Bhava-Agra?"
Apparently Bhava means emotion, and doubles as a Buddhist term. But Agra... I wouldn't be surprised if the two words put together meant something, but I can't figure out what.
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Summit of Being Heaven: [有頂天] (ushouten)
(1) (Skt Akanishtha) Another name for the Akanishtha Heaven, or the highest heaven in the world of form. The living beings in this heaven are said to possess pure bodies that are free from all suffering and illness.
(2) (Skt Bhava-agra or Bhavagra) Another name for the Heaven of Neither Thought Nor No Thought, or the highest heaven in the world of formlessness. The Sanskrit word bhava means being, existence, or realm of existence, and agra means summit or the uppermost. See also Realm of Neither Thought Nor No Thought.
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1. Is there a way to get the permabanned avatar in color?
2.
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7271/touhoumokorabu019.jpg)
Where does this image come from?
Edit:
3. When it comes to touhou fanworks, especially translations, the works seem to be dispersed, difficult to navigate and browse, unorganized, and uncentralized.
Is there a location to browse the works that
1. Allows for browsing rather than downloading,
2. Is easy to search through, and
3. compiles all the translations from all over the web (in other words, has a mostly complete record of all the works that have been translated)?
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the problem with #3 is that it requires a collaborative effort between a lot of different groups and someone willing to host all of this data and front the bill for the bandwidth usage
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Has ichigo done vocals for Phantom Ensemble?
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Doesn't look like it. (http://vgmdb.net/artist/2416)
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Darn. Well thanks anyway.
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Hey guys, anyone here know the name of this program (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_vU-TwyBE)? Asking here because Utena told me to. :V
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the problem with #3 is that it requires a collaborative effort between a lot of different groups and someone willing to host all of this data and front the bill for the bandwidth usage
Aw, that's too bad.
EDIT: I was going to ask about an image, but then I realized that I could google the text of the .jpg filename.
I am curious about the perma-banned avatar though. I'd like to know if there is a color version.
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I'm new to the Godmother powers thing. How do I change thread titles?
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I'm new to the Godmother powers thing. How do I change thread titles?
This thread is for asking miscellaneous questions about Touhou rather than site mechanics, so you might have better luck PMing a mod.
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Ok then. I'll do that.
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Oh, well. If nobody knows the name of that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_vU-TwyBE) program, how about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut4-fs9eLkM) one?
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Captain H., feel free to accept me as your new god.
Through mine own efforts, I have remastered the banned pic into color.
Yes it stinks, but this is what you get for free labor, so enjoy it.
[attach=1]
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Captain H., feel free to accept me as your new god.
Through mine own efforts, I have remastered the banned pic into color.
Yes it stinks, but this is what you get for free labor, so enjoy it.
[attach=1]
Thank you!
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Oriental Memory of Forgathering Dream and Broken are the same theme, but remixed and play during different places, right? The former is the credit theme for Touhou 7.5 while the latter plays before you fight Suika and then later serves as her theme song in Touhou 10.5. Fan-made remixes and vocals make me get those two confused on which is which...
Also, are extra stage bosses considered the true final bosses? Take most Sonic games for example: The true final boss cannot be fought until you obtain all the Chaos Emeralds or something like that, but even when you defeat the "fake" final boss, you can still see the ending, though it's not the real one. In Touhou, are the final bosses fought during the main playthrough considered "fake" final bosses while the extra stage ones are the real ones?
Thanks in advance!
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Final bosses are generally the ones responsible for the incident that the game is based around. Extra bosses are usually unrelated to the incident, but have connections to other characters or events in the game. So in a story sense, no, extra bosses are not "true finals," though it is quite possible to argue this for Yukari and Nue. And in a gameplay sense, they're more like the optional superbosses you unlock in a New Game Plus. You have to get the true ending before you're able to access extra bosses, and in a couple cases you have to do it multiple times.
As for Suika, I'm no music expert, but I'd say that they're different pieces arranged around the same theme. Also of note is that this theme also is reprised for part of the SWR ending as well.
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Not sure if this will get an answer, but did ZUN compose Suwa Foughten Field or Player's Score first? Nereid says it might be the former, but I'm not sure.
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I don't think anyone actually knows for sure, but if there is some obscure source for it somewhere, I dunno what it is.
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Since he still uses the "Player's Score" theme for games after that (including a remix for Fairy Wars), and he almost never re-uses/remixes music unless it's in the menu, that means one of two things: he made Player's Score first and Suwa Foughten Field was a reference to it, or he's lazy and didn't want to compose a new score screen theme. Either one is possible.
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Since he still uses the "Player's Score" theme for games after that (including a remix for Fairy Wars), and he almost never re-uses/remixes music unless it's in the menu, that means one of two things: he made Player's Score first and Suwa Foughten Field was a reference to it, or he's lazy and didn't want to compose a new score screen theme. Either one is possible.
Yeah, I was thinking more of the former. Anyways, no point in wasting time thinking it over.
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I thought it was openly free since it's a danfumaku script, and the place I downloaded it from wasn't a place I was aware of that had piracy (shmup forum, whatever it's called). But after looking for Concealed the conclusion, I discovered that it is supposed to be purchased (CtC that is), and I'm getting a nagging suspicion that Phantasm Romance isn't supposed to be free either (I didn't know! *sobs*). The reason why I need to know for certain is because I publicized where you can download it somewhere to encourage people to try what I thought is free, but I'll have to take that down if I screwed up.
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No, Phantasm Romance is free for legit, you're good.
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yay! thanks.
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Does she use the 12 month calendar, or the cycles of the moon? This has been bugging me for a while, actually.
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Eirin has probably invented a superior callender that auto corrects for the changes in earth's orbit.
However Gensoukyo in general uses the Lunisolar callendar with it's leap months and whatnot.
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Eirin has probably invented a superior callender that auto corrects for the changes in earth's orbit.
However Gensoukyo in general uses the Lunisolar callendar with it's leap months and whatnot.
Perhaps. It's also possible that she turned some rabbits into satellites and used magic(hax) to send them into orbit, and send the information back.
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So I was reading karaagetarou's latest comic on danbooru, and a comment by one of the translators there jumped out at me:
It bothers me that nobody's actually translating the descriptions of powers in Touhou right. In this case [danbooru link (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/804795)], it's not "power to manipulate age", but rather something more along the lines of "enough power to manipulate age" or perhaps "about as much power as one would need to manipulate age".
All of ZUN's descriptions of powers are phrased like that. "About as much power as one would need to manipulate destiny", "about as much power as one would need to eat history". It's hard to find a good English phrasing for that that isn't awkward or too long, I suppose, but the way the Touhou wiki translations just leave it out entirely feels like you lose a very basic part of the charm.
Is this accurate? That is, is there a systematic mistranslation/misrepresentation of the Touhou girls' abilities on the english wiki in the manner so described?
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I'd have to agree on that one, since almost all that ability phrasings in Japanese are in
○○ 程度の 能力
with as much power to ability
So ZUN writes those abilities as if they aren't anything of as much power or significance (when the power is actually really significant)
Well, but then again, this word's charm might be lost if you phrase it in to english so, I'm not really complaining -Since I can't do any better
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Already asked 2 times and nobody answered, so I'll try asking again. Does anyone here know the names of these programs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut4-fs9eLkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuOtwo8rIRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_vU-TwyBE
If nobody knows, then do you guys know a program that lets me record Mario Paint? Thanks.
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Already asked 2 times and nobody answered, so I'll try asking again. Does anyone here know the names of these programs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut4-fs9eLkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuOtwo8rIRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_vU-TwyBE
What you see in those videos is the "piano roll" feature that can be found in midi editing software. (for example, SynthFont)
I can't identify what program they are using, but why do you ask ?
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What you see in those videos is the "piano roll" feature that can be found in midi editing software. (for example, SynthFont)
I can't identify what program they are using, but why do you ask ?
Piano roll? Thanks for telling me. Now I have to find programs that have that feature. I want to compose my own music and upload it to places like YouTube, and I've been looking for a program like the ones I linked to for ages now. The kind of program that I'm looking for is one that has that "piano roll" feature and is simple to use and easy on the eyes.
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Somehow I can't believe you were searching very hard if you couldn't find any one program with a simple piano roll.
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Somehow I can't believe you were searching very hard if you couldn't find any one program with a simple piano roll.
Hahaha, that's because I didn't know it was called piano roll. :3
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Although called humans of the outside world, and while their clothing, hairstyles and pattern of speech is different, there is no clearly defined difference from the people of Gensokyo.
Having been separated from the rest of humanity, Gensokyo humans have ignored scientific advances and developed formidable innate spiritual power to survive. Today, the normal Gensokyo human is probably a little more powerful than the average youkai, but the population of youkai greatly outnumbers humans.
So, was Perfect Memento translated wrong, or is the wiki's article on humans incorrect?
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The article on humans is what's incorrect, especially the part about humans being stronger than youkai. The only way humans are stronger than youkai is that youkai are more affected by spiritual damage than physical (which incidentally is why the spell card system works in the first place). However, I'm kind of curious as to why it survived multiple edits.
The humans that were sent into Gensokyo were essentially sent there of their own volition. They were said to possess high spiritual power and were adept at fighting youkai. But obviously, after generations of humans are born and killed and naturally die, along with the bordercrossed humans placed in the human villages, that number dwindled down. Humans are eaten by youkai if they are found outside the villages sure, and humans generally accept that fact, but the villages are protected by powerful youkai to begin with; humans have very little need to attempt to survive as the village supports them all. If all the humans died there would be massive problem for youkai anyways. Even still, youkai are free to come and go through the village and generally it's all a super-polite relationship; to the point that there are various nighttime shops catered specifically for youkai. However, in no way is there some kind of equal standing between youkai and humans. There are likely less humans than there are youkai though simply because youkai don't die for a loooooong time, and the human villages probably don't populate as quickly as one would in the outside world.
Gensokyo's humans have not ignored scientific advantages, the world just simply isn't advancing technologically at the same rate as the outside world, and for pretty obvious reasons. The kappa are just the most knowledgeable in technology. I'm sure there are various simplistic human mechanics and tradesmen, but the fact remains that Gensokyo is run mostly on the fact that there exist living creatures and there is a balance held, not that humans have invented ways to further themselves. There have undoubtedly been scientific advances, just maybe not to the point of the outside world. Also considering that Gensokyo is governed by extraordinarily powerful youkai, certain scientific advances such as weaponry are probably kept in check to keep the balance.
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Gensokyo's humans have not ignored scientific advantages, the world just simply isn't advancing technologically at the same rate as the outside world, and for pretty obvious reasons. The kappa are just the most knowledgeable in technology. I'm sure there are various simplistic human mechanics and tradesmen, but the fact remains that Gensokyo is run mostly on the fact that there exist living creatures and there is a balance held, not that humans have invented ways to further themselves.
Example: Rika and Rikako, though PC-98 might not be considered canon in that regard anymore...
By the way, here's a question: Iku refers to Tenshi as 'the First Daughter' quite frequently. Does this imply that Tenshi has younger sisters? Considering how immature and chaotic Tenshi tends to be, one must wonder how childish her siblings must be...
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By the way, here's a question: Iku refers to Tenshi as 'the First Daughter' quite frequently. Does this imply that Tenshi has younger sisters? Considering how immature and chaotic Tenshi tends to be, one must wonder how childish her siblings must be...
First daughter, doesn't always need to have a sibling to be called that, as with the Japanese titles of 長男 or 長女.
Also, Tenshi's father is the 総領... also written as 惣領 can mean something like Local governor.
-This is an old tern not used anymore, but I still think will apply since the setting of Touhou is more similar to ancient Japan.-
Since she's the daughter of that, it can be something like "Daughter of Governor".
So in conclusion, Tenshi could possibly have siblings, but doesn't need to for Iku to call her 総領娘様.
I don't know how it's translated on the english patch of the game, but since she sounds as if she's constantly alone within her race, I personally guess the latter possibility that she's an only child.
Does this answer the question thoroughly enough?
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Kedama are the white furballs, right?
What's the name for the enemies that replace kedama in SA and UFO?
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As a general term they are both zako (雑魚, lit. miscellaneous fish) which means small-fry. Or you could call them popcorn, or ying-yang orbs, or "the enemies that shoot that one bullet wave", or whatever.
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On 8:00, what's the original song? I feel like I've heard it before, but I can't quite remember what it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m2cYlD0aKw&feature=related#t=8m
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Okay, seriously...
Does anyone have any idea where these (1 (http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2523/35ho5ye.gif) 2 (http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8869/1290221478909.gif) 3 (http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/654/isthatsonanoka.gif)) gifs are from? I've been dying to know if, by any chance, there is a fanmade touhou anime/opening using ZUN-style art. I have a feeling these gifs have different artists, but it really doesn't matter.
Any information given would be greatly appreciated... :D
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Alice Maestra.
Author unknown. And no.
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Is this product genuine?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Large-Touhou-Project-Kirisame-Marisa-Plush-Doll-25-High-/320626164176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa6cf01d0
You'll have to look at the whole page to see the details.
Thanks!
If it is I might buy it :D
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Is Kikuri a disc or a sphere?
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A disk, probably.
This being HRtP, of course, the correct answer is "who knows."
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Yeah, I was just curious because "Hellish Moon" suggested sphere to me.
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what do the numbers point by the arrow represent?
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8039/whatarethese.th.png) (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/whatarethese.png/)
First I thought it was just # of attempts but they start to differ a lot if you capture a second time. Also I swear I captured this card on my first try, but when I looked it said 11, so what is it?
its the number of successful pictures taken of the boss.
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How exactly does Koishi's ability work?
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How exactly does Koishi's ability work?
Super stealth.
Others cannot "notice" her, even if they're staring right at her.
This is because Seeing and noticing that an object/person is there is two different things.
(Ex. Like those "a-ha experience" pictures (http://azflash.net/az/fla/aha02.htm) that you don't "notice" the change although you constantly "see" the change occurring inside the picture.)
Recalling memories of the subconscious.
From her Danmaku from Double spoiler "Embryo's Dream", it's presumed that she can recall memories that we don't consciously remember.
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Does anyone have a translation of this? (http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Oakland/9951/products/th_dnh_help_v2_data/SecWriting.html)
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5980.0.html
You'll get better results there.
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What came first, The spellcards from th075 or the bombs from th08?
EDIT : Oh, forgot to mention that IaMP's trial version has Alice and Youmu, which has the bombs, too.
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Imperishable Night was released first, so the latter.
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5980.0.html
You'll get better results there.
ＦＦＦＦＦＦＦＦＦＦＦＦＦＦＦＦ When did I not notice that thread
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I've heard something about a ZUN art tutorial. Is there anyone who knows where I can find this?
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Is this it? (http://i43.tinypic.com/ztxiu1.jpg)
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A more serious tutorial. (See attachment)
Nihongo on(ry
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Please, can anybody tell me WHY there are furbies on pics with Aya and Hatate?
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How can I post my avatar for this forum? (might be a stupid question)
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How can I post my avatar for this forum? (might be a stupid question)
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,3652.0.html
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17.0.html
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When are Comiket and Retaissai (sp) this year?
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,3652.0.html
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17.0.html
thanks!
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Now I've got another question to ask.
Yukari's ability is to manipulate borders, right?
What exactly is a border?
A border is a boundary,no one can go through it except yukari so thats why she can go wherever she wants or send people to somewhere she want.
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This was going to go in the translation request thread, but then I realized that it wasn't quite a translation request. :V
Hieda no Akyu's line (Aya, Anana, Amu, etc) all follows a naming scheme based on puns for numbers. I asked this question in a limited scope once before, and heard that the next incarnation of the Child of Miare would be Hieda no Ama. What would go after that? (I would appreciate hearing up tp to the twelfth incarnation, if that's not asking for too much.)
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Are, Aichi, Ani, Ami, Ayo, Ago, Amu, Anana, Aya, Akyu... I would expect the tenth reincarnation to be Ato or Aju. How it would follow after that, though, I'm not exactly sure.
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Are, Aichi, Ani, Ami, Ayo, Ago, Amu, Anana, Aya, Akyu... I would expect the tenth reincarnation to be Ato or Aju. How it would follow after that, though, I'm not exactly sure.
Bare, Baichi, Bani, Bami, Bayo, Bago, Bamu, Banana, Baya, Bakyu, Baju, Care, Caichi.... :V
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So, uh, does anyone know who created this amusing remix?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFFkW3v6R-g&feature=related#t=4m45s
Set to 4:45 because that's near where it starts.
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貴方の横顔はストロベリー by 神斬ゼロ式 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UYHYZQHc2E)
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Uh... I'm not sure if this goes here but is there any place on this whole forum for me to introduce myself? It feels strange just suddenly coming in here and posting when nobody really knows anything about me. =/
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Uh... I'm not sure if this goes here but is there any place on this whole forum for me to introduce myself? It feels strange just suddenly coming in here and posting when nobody really knows anything about me. =/
Well, first off, hello there! And second, we have an introductions thread right here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7780.0.html). So go ahead and introduce yourself!
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Well, first off, hello there! And second, we have an introductions thread right here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7780.0.html). So go ahead and introduce yourself!
Hello! And thanks.
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If Satori encountered someone who only spoke foreign languages, would she still be able to read their mind?
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If Satori encountered someone who only spoke foreign languages, would she still be able to read their mind?
All her best friends are animals/pets because she can understand them, even though they can't speak.
I'm assuming animals don't speak the same language she does, so that would be a yes.
It's more like she can read what's in your heart than what you're thinking, so I guess it has nothing to do with the language of the thought, but the subject matter of the thought.
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I'm sure she could detect emotions and urges (i.e. hunger) either way.
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remember reading somewhere that our base thoughts aren't in languages or something like that
so yes she could
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Toyohime, the lunarian from silent sinners in blue with the purifying fan, apparently has the ability to manipulate the boundary between the earth and the moon, and the scientific and fantastic versions of the moon.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Toyohime
I'm a little unclear on the canon though. Does she require a full moon to manipulate the boundaries, or can she just travel back and forth between earth and moon at will? Same question for the boundary between the scientific and the fantasy moon; does it have to be a full moon, or does that rule only apply to everyone else?
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I think it's just travelling between Earth and Moon at will, and between the sealed-away Lunar Capital and the airless moon, and it doesn't matter what time of month it is. (At one point in Inabas they visit Eientei on a whim, but I forget what the moon phase was at the time.)
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I think it's just travelling between Earth and Moon at will, and between the sealed-away Lunar Capital and the airless moon, and it doesn't matter what time of month it is. (At one point in Inabas they visit Eientei on a whim, but I forget what the moon phase was at the time.)
That sounds good enough for my story. Thanks!
Suika Ibuki is a difficult character to work around, but because of how the story is set up, she has to be used. I know that she is assumed to be able to grow gigantic, but I'm not sure where that ability comes from since it doesn't seem canon. And if it canon, does that mean she can grow bigger than the earth (if that's even her limit)?
Then there's her Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red article, in which it states that she blew up the moon. There are dozens of things wrong with this, including the fact that it would be a huge incident in the outside world (our world) if the moon blew up even temporarily. However, it can't be the fantastic moon because the lunarians would all be dead. Basically, I need to know what she did to the moon for one of my stories, and how someone could blow up Gensokyo's moon without anyone outside of Gensokyo caring.
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Suika grows large in DS (or StB, I forgot), taking up about half of the entire screen.
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She manipulates density. However that works, she can grow huge (as seen in IaMP and DS) and can split into several miniature Suikas (seen in the same games). It also gives her the ability to make things gather, which is so general that it ranges from physical objects (her shot in SA, various IaMP attacks) to getting everyone together to have a massive party in IaMP's scenario.
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Suika didn't blow up the moon. She blew up a reflection of the moon, as a display of her power (in retalation to the Scarlet Devil Mansion's anti-oni celebration, which was done in retaliation to IaMP, as per Patchouli's storyline). She explains the process to Aya in that BAiJR interview.
The whole "You can influence the appearance of the moon using reflective surfaces" thing was a secret (something that Suika told Aya in that interview), so Suika either figured out how to do it herself or she learned how to from her friend Yukari (given Yukari's propensity for playing with the moon via reflections)
And yea, she grows huge in several games (pretty much every game she's been in, really, not including SA). If you're trying to research characters for a story or something, I recommend you not only read their profiles, but also take a look at all of their spell cards as listed in the Wiki in the game sections. Spell card names, ZUN's/Aya's/Hatate's comments on them, and the danmaku functions themselves all tell many things about a character's abilities that simply reading the literature won't.
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Suika didn't blow up the moon. She blew up a reflection of the moon, as a display of her power (in retalation to the Scarlet Devil Mansion's anti-oni celebration, which was done in retaliation to IaMP, as per Patchouli's storyline). She explains the process to Aya in that BAiJR interview.
The whole "You can influence the appearance of the moon using reflective surfaces" thing was a secret (something that Suika told Aya in that interview), so Suika either figured out how to do it herself or she learned how to from her friend Yukari (given Yukari's propensity for playing with the moon via reflections)
And yea, she grows huge in several games (pretty much every game she's been in, really, not including SA). If you're trying to research characters for a story or something, I recommend you not only read their profiles, but also take a look at all of their spell cards as listed in the Wiki in the game sections. Spell card names, ZUN's/Aya's/Hatate's comments on them, and the danmaku functions themselves all tell many things about a character's abilities that simply reading the literature won't.
You're probably right, although reading everything runs into practicallity issues. At a minimum, the lunarians, the denizens of hell, the military of the scientific world and most the residents of Gensokyo kind of have to get involved, and I blame Okuu.
I'm pulling the square-cube law on anything bigger than 50 feet. Heck, 50 feet might already break it, but density manipulation allows for hand-waving it. (This is the square cube law: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SquareCubeLaw (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SquareCubeLaw)). Thanks for the Suika info.
That seems to leave a bunch of questions unanswered about the nature of the moon. Somehow Remilia got to the real moon by following the reflection of the moon in the heavens until the full moon, and then didn't immediately go insane (or was already insane, which seems to be the excuse all the imperishable night characters use) when she got there. And somehow you can go back and forth between the moon and earth during the full moon, even though the full moon being chased across the sky is only the reflection of the moon in the heavens. Since this isn't the true full moon, it raise a question about how a path can exist to the real thing when the thing being chased is merely a reflection.
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Oh, that would be because Yukari manipulates the border between truth and lies. The reflection of the moon is a lie. So Yukari simply makes it true (Yea, Yukari's ability is pretty darn extensive...). That's the short version of it, at least. You can get the extended version of how it works in PMiSS + CiLR + SSiB. I forget if Toyohime's ability worked that way when she travelled back and forth in SSIB. This method only works on the moment of a full moon, because that's the only time the true moon is reflected or... something like that.
Reissen 2 instead used a lunar curtain, which is a device that lets you ride back and forth quite easily but comes with risks and costs to use (I forget what, exactly. It's detailed in Cage in Lunatic Runagate how it works).
It's not stated which method they used to get to earth in Inaba of the Moon and Earth. But they could have used either the Lunar Curtain or whatever method Toyohimi used in SSiB (unless Toyohime used Yukari's border method. In which case... they probably just used the Lunar Curtain)
Remilia herself actually got to the moon via combination of a magically empowered rocket (by a god summoned by Reimu, no less) and Eirin's own magical charm that she secretly placed on it to guide it there.
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Is there any way to find out more about Hatarakimono (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/manga.php?id=3735) (the manga Ellen (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ellen)'s from)?
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Is there any way to find out more about Hatarakimono (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/manga.php?id=3735) (the manga Ellen (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ellen)'s from)?
Yes, but only if someone buys the manga and gets it scanlated.
Matsuri, I'm looking at you. >_>
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Yes, but only if someone buys the manga and gets it scanlated.
Matsuri, I'm looking at you. >_>
I'll get around to scanning it, seriously!
...eventually :ohdear:
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If it helps any, at least one publication of it seems to have been in an anthology (http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=21066).
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Can anyone explain what exactly Advent Cirno is to me?
I thought it was a manga, but I'm aware that there seems to be an advent cirno soundtrack, so I'm a bit confused about it.
EDIT: Also, there's this lunarian, Yorihime, who has a sword that I can't quite figure out. Does the sword physically paralyze her opponents, or does it tear them to shreds if they try to move?
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i think who begin like a OST parody of Final Fantasy, mixing with Touhou songs,and was called Advent Cirno because that year appared the movie Advent Children. Was sucessful, and fanart begin to appear, with Cirno like Cloud, Reisen like Vincent, Meiling like Tifa...like the images in the disk...and do another characters too. After appeared the manga from the people who do the images from the disk...another OST,more doujins and turn into the thing who you know now.
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EDIT: Also, there's this lunarian, Yorihime, who has a sword that I can't quite figure out. Does the sword physically paralyze her opponents, or does it tear them to shreds if they try to move?
The sword actually paralyzes opponents when Yorihime is in the process of summoning. I don't know if it's magically enchanted or not because her sword was able to black Marisa's Master Spark in Silent Sinner.
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Advent Cirno started as an arrange soundtrack but its incredible amount of backing began after One Night Stand developed a doujin manga for it. ONS drew the inlay art for the first album (C69), and then founded the character designs and little quirks, which were used for the second album released a year later (Reitaisai 3). Ultimately, the manga began a few months after the second album was released, in August 2006.
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The sword actually paralyzes opponents when Yorihime is in the process of summoning. I don't know if it's magically enchanted or not because her sword was able to black Marisa's Master Spark in Silent Sinner.
Well that's a pity, since that particular ability will be hard to write around in a story. I know that's what it says on the touhou wiki, but do we know anything about how it paralyzes them, or does it simply paralyze people without explanation?
Advent Cirno started as an arrange soundtrack but its incredible amount of backing began after One Night Stand developed a doujin manga for it. ONS drew the inlay art for the first album (C69), and then founded the character designs and little quirks, which were used for the second album released a year later (Reitaisai 3). Ultimately, the manga began a few months after the second album was released, in August 2006.
So it's an album first. Thanks, didn't know that, my first experience with it was the manga series by one night stand.
Does anyone else use advent cirno, or is it mostly a one night stand thing?
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Well that's a pity, since that particular ability will be hard to write around in a story. I know that's what it says on the touhou wiki, but do we know anything about how it paralyzes them, or does it simply paralyze people without explanation?
So it's an album first. Thanks, didn't know that, my first experience with it was the manga series by one night stand.
Does anyone else use advent cirno, or is it mostly a one night stand thing?
I don't think it was explained. It's like an auto-effect.
Wait, lemme read that part again.
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I have a question, but I'm not too sure if it belongs here. :ohdear:
....How do you unlock Aya in RoHL? :blush:
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What exactly is Mayohiga from perfect cherry blossom? It appears to be a village Chen guards in game, but is it a village for youkai?
I ask because I want to use the location in story, like as the location where team 9 lives (I have absolutely no idea how to write a 9 ball).
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What exactly is Mayohiga from perfect cherry blossom? It appears to be a village Chen guards in game, but is it a village for youkai?
I ask because I want to use the location in story, like as the location where team 9 lives (I have absolutely no idea how to write a 9 ball).
As far as I know, Mayohiga is the place where the Yakumos live, I haven't noted any other youkai living there as well. I think it's just one giant mansion, but I could be wrong.
It's pretty possible in fanon to have other people living there, such as team (9). You'd just have to find a way to make it really work. I don't think Yukari would approve of the constant noise and shenanigans.
9 ball is 'written' as ( 9 ) :'>
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As far as I know, Mayohiga is the place where the Yakumos live, I haven't noted any other youkai living there as well. I think it's just one giant mansion, but I could be wrong.
It's pretty possible in fanon to have other people living there, such as team ⑨. You'd just have to find a way to make it really work. I don't think Yukari would approve of the constant noise and shenanigans.
9 ball is 'written' as ( 9 ) :'>
I'm having trouble getting the ⑨ symbol, how did you do that (only got it by copy-paste)? ⑨
Pity about Mayohiga. It's almost never referenced properly in the fics (everyone keeps saying that no one knows where Yukari lives, which contradicts that). I thought it was a youkai village.
Truthfully, I thought it was a youkai village, and the yakumos live elsewhere (never got to phantasm on PCB, so I'm not totally sure what I'm missing information wise.) Might use it as such anyway, but I don't like spitting in the face of canon.
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The Yakumos likely do not live in Mayohiga. They live on the northeastern edge of Gensokyo, actually reasonably close to the Hakurei Shrine. Even just considering Mayohiga may be on the way to Hakugyokurou, it's likely not their home. It might be close enough to Yukari's place, though.
Mayohiga is a village that Chen often goes to play at and/or protect, and is probably the same village overrun by cats that is the basis of Chen's BAiJR article. It says the village was once inhabited by humans, but it was abandoned. However, Stage 2 introduces it with that it refuses humans, but whatever. Chen brought a bunch of cats there so she could have a bunch of servants (servants of a servant of a servant, note) except she isn't good at being their leader; anarchy, etc. When confronted by Reimu, she says it's "our home" (私達の里). The word used is not "house", but "village" or something like that. Since Chen goes to Mayohiga and the cat village, it's reasonable to assume they're one in the same.
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The Yakumos likely do not live in Mayohiga. They live on the northeastern edge of Gensokyo, actually reasonably close to the Hakurei Shrine. Even just considering Mayohiga may be on the way to Hakugyokurou, it's likely not their home. It might be close enough to Yukari's place, though.
Mayohiga is a village that Chen often goes to play at and/or protect, and is probably the same village overrun by cats that is the basis of Chen's BAiJR article. It says the village was once inhabited by humans, but it was abandoned. However, Stage 2 introduces it with that it refuses humans, but whatever. Chen brought a bunch of cats there so she could have a bunch of servants (servants of a servant of a servant, note) except she isn't good at being their leader; anarchy, etc. When confronted by Reimu, she says it's "our home" (私達の里). The word used is not "house", but "village" or something like that. Since Chen goes to Mayohiga and the cat village, it's reasonable to assume they're one in the same.
Thanks, but I'm curious about something you said. You mentioned that the Yakumos live on the north eastern edge of Gensokyo. A map of Gensokyo would be very advantageous for what I'm working on, so I'm curious where you got your information concerning geography. I didn't even know there was a canon geography until you mentioned it, and having that would be useful.
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Yukari mentions it in Reimu's Phantasm. There is no "canonical" map of Gensokyo, but so far the most detailed and accurate one I know of is here.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2192/gensokyotraditionalmapb.jpg
Note you do not need to follow the map precisely as it's only a bunch of guesses based on relations of one place to another, and the compass is essentially there for show. But it's a nice guide if you don't want to read various articles.
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Yukari mentions it in Reimu's Phantasm. There is no "canonical" map of Gensokyo, but so far the most detailed and accurate one I know of is here.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2192/gensokyotraditionalmapb.jpg
Note you do not need to follow the map precisely as it's only a bunch of guesses based on relations of one place to another, and the compass is essentially there for show. But it's a nice guide if you don't want to read various articles.
Thank you for this. Coincidentally, in spite of being completely different from how I imagined Gensokyo, none of the geography on the map conficts with the story yet, so it works out perfectly!
I find it hilarious that nameless hill has it's own location on the map.
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If it helps any, at least one publication of it seems to have been in an anthology (http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=21066).
I do own a copy to scan; I'm just very forgetful and am often doing other things that do not involve me scanning it. :fail:
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I do own a copy to scan; I'm just very forgetful and am often doing other things that do not involve me scanning it. :fail:
if you really want, I could start guilt tripping you to make you do it
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Waaait a minute
So you keep forgetting...to scan the manga about Ellen.
OH THE IRONY :getdown:
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So why do Tengus and Kappas dislike Onis again?
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I don't think that they dislike them, just that they are afraid what would happen if they decided to come back above ground. In the Marisa\Nitori path of SA, Nitori mentions that Oni are the boss of the Tengu and Kappa, and having the Oni return would mean that they would no longer control Youkai Mountain. (incidentally, she also mentions that one Oni would be able to win against the Kappa and the Tengu) On the other hand, after they defeat Yuugi, Nitori invites her up to go drinking.
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So...what does Mystia do with her lamprey stand profits? Is she just accumulating a nest egg?
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Once again mentioning that even if Oni and Tengu/Kappa were on bad standing a good 4000 years ago, they are not necessarily now, especially with the spell card rules in set. It's actually likely high-ranking Oni, Tengu and Kappa signed the agreement in the first place.
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So...what does Mystia do with her lamprey stand profits? Is she just accumulating a nest egg?
Some youkai have homes, so I guess she's working to maintain hers. She probably needs other things, though most of it probably just be luxury, since youkai don't require much (if any) food, water and other such crucial life products. She may be saving for something in Kourindou though.
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So...what does Mystia do with her lamprey stand profits? Is she just accumulating a nest egg?
obvs gonna start a franchise
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Random train of thought, but:
Can Rumia canonically put her arms down? Or does she just like being "crucified?"
The wiki says she can't touch her amulet, but I'm still curious.
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It looks like her sprite does so in EoSD, so I guess she can.
I always imagined that when they said she can't touch her amulet, it meant she'd get burned or repelled from it, like two magnets that don't attract.
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Yeah, nothing in canon answers the question of how does it work.
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I've been searching the site and I haven't seen this question, so...:
What are the Touhou comics that have been released, and do they have any relevance to the actual Gensokyo time-line?
One more thing too, is there a site I can at least read them?
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I've been searching the site and I haven't seen this question, so...:
What are the Touhou comics that have been released, and do they have any relevance to the actual Gensokyo time-line?
One more thing too, is there a site I can at least read them?
Everything:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_Print_Works
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Timeline:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline
Also, on the subject of the timeline, I was wondering:
How do we know that TH12.8 occurs chronologically between TH10 and TH10.5?
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From this (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Fairy_Wars) we have:
It is a continuation of a story in Strange and Bright Nature Deity
So we have a year to work with here. Although this in itself is vague, it was after a certain point in SaBND (see here (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_and_Bright_Nature_Deity#SaBND_Volume_2_Extra_.28Great_Fairy_War_Special.29)), hence why it was placed in that year and not the next, and since Lily White and Black you cosplay fetishist makes an appearance, it's possible to conclude that it happened at some point in Spring.
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In her confrontation with Mokou, Alice points out that the soul is made invincible. This, along with Yuyuko's and Yukari's scenario in Imperishable Night, makes it seem that the Hourai Elixir itself isn't a power that keeps one immortal, but makes one an existence completely independent of even the concept of reality, thus making one not subject to the bounds of life, death, or even manipulation, although the pain of injuries can still be felt. This medicine indeed makes one truly invincible, and forced to live out their existence forever. It's no wonder why this medicine is forbidden even to the mysterious lunarians.
I've read somewhere else that Hourai Elixir causes you to be unable to 'change', but I can't find where this is stated at the moment. Kimiko talked about it a few times too, theorizing it would cause a female to become infertile too, since pregnancy is change.
By extension this would mean an Hourai Immortal is immune to curses and magical manipulation too. This is a big plus, but would that mean the immortal is incapable to willingly shapeshift or adjust their body? That positive magical enhancements have little to no effect on them? If an immortal wanted to change their appearance via magic, would that be impossible? And if a youkai drank the Elixir, would that cause the youkai to be stuck in the form it had at the moment forever? Or revert to their true forms and be locked in that form forever? If a youkai had their wings or extra limbs hidden at the time it took the Elixir, would they be unable to make them appear again?
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I've read somewhere else that Hourai Elixir causes you to be unable to 'change', but I can't find where this is stated at the moment. Kimiko talked about it a few times too, theorizing it would cause a female to become infertile too, since pregnancy is change.
By extension this would mean an Hourai Immortal is immune to curses and magical manipulation too. This is a big plus, but would that mean the immortal is incapable to willingly shapeshift or adjust their body? That positive magical enhancements have little to no effect on them? If an immortal wanted to change their appearance via magic, would that be impossible? And if a youkai drank the Elixir, would that cause the youkai to be stuck in the form it had at the moment forever? Or revert to their true forms and be locked in that form forever? If a youkai had their wings or extra limbs hidden at the time it took the Elixir, would they be unable to make them appear again?
by the reasoning you stated, they could be affected by curses/manipulation that affect the space around them and not them directly. the same works for positive things. like if sakuya and mokou were in the same party, sakuya could slow time for her team as it is effecting time/space and not mokou's body.
as for shapeshifting, that would most likely be dependent on the youkai in question and the method of shapeshifting. for example, if reisen became immortal she could still probably make you hallucinate her into whatever she wants.
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I'm actually not sure it works on youkai; for one thing, 1. youkai are already effectively immortal, and 2. none of the youkai-characters in IN even consider the possibility of using it themselves, just their partners using it. With the possible exception of Yuyuko ("Eeek, Youmu, I'm scared of what might happen if I eat her!" "... then don't eat her!")
I admit that my "stops any and all change" wasn't really based on any official material, IIRC; I just took "okay, the Hourai elixir does all these different things; what category do they all fall under?" and the pregnancy thing was a logical extension of that.
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1. youkai are already effectively immortal
Extended life-span does not equal immortality.
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by the reasoning you stated, they could be affected by curses/manipulation that affect the space around them and not them directly. the same works for positive things. like if sakuya and mokou were in the same party, sakuya could slow time for her team as it is effecting time/space and not mokou's body.
as for shapeshifting, that would most likely be dependent on the youkai in question and the method of shapeshifting. for example, if reisen became immortal she could still probably make you hallucinate her into whatever she wants.
Ah yes. Illusions could still work. Nue's ability to hide something's true form would also still be effective, since it is an illusion, not her actually changing. And apparently it was just an observation of Kimiko regarding the change part. Though, it is said it makes one immune to direct manipulation, but now I start to wonder if youkai shapeshifting really counts as manipulation. Shapeshifting is a natural ability for almost all youkai, so maybe they intend the word 'manipulation' as using curses and manipulating magic on someone (like Yuyuko's ability for example). And, to a certain extent, the little girl disguises of the youkai already are illusions to a certain extent. I'll just assume youkai shapeshifting and illusions are still possible, but other forms of shapeshifting might be harder.
Extended life-span does not equal immortality.
What he said. The majority of youkai have a long but still limited life-span. Only the powerful ones can be rendered incapable of dying through age (Byakuren, likely Yuuka, Yukari and Utsuho too, maybe the devas) though it depends on race too (Remilia, Flandre). That still doesn't mean they're truly incapable of dying. Youkai can regenerate from most fatal injuries so conventional weaponry is ineffective against them, but powerful magic/spiritual energy and enchanted weaponry can perma-kill them. If a youkai is tough enough they can take a few blows and fix themselves up with rest eventually thanks to their regeneration, but if the blow is powerful enough it's game over. Yukari and other reality manipulating youkai could perhaps achieve some form of true immortality though.
Though, I think I read somewhere that the goal of the majority of youkai is to achieve immortality, which indeed makes it odd why none of the youkai party members attempted eating Mokou's liver. They might have excuses for it though. Remilia is already quite hard to kill, and might think Hourai immortality would be redundant, Yukari might already be immortal, Yuyuko is, well, DEAD, and Alice might just not be interested in immortality.
Maybe true youkai immortality is possible in a way that doesn't require Hourai Elixir, but oh well.
This all does create a paradox though. Youkai are stated to be capable of dying of age eventually, but powerful ones can overcome that age limit. Youkai also grow more powerful and wiser as they grow older. So, doesn't that mean a youkai automatically becomes semi-immortal eventually? Or is a spell/skill required? Why would they talk about an age limit if an old enough youkai becomes immortal eventually anyway? So confusing....
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http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Translation/Magic_Team%27s_Extra
Alice: Not really. I'm just interested in souls.
I thought they might allow me to make independent dolls.
Besides, I don't think the elixir would work on youkai, would it?
I guess that kinda answers the question. The youkai in IN don't try to take the elixir because they aren't even sure it'll work on them (or at least, Alice isn't. Yukari and Yuyuko probably never needed it in the first place, which really just leaves Remilia, who seems to think of herself as immortal anyways since she was primarily interested in getting Sakuya to take it so Sakuya could serve her forever. Remilia's probably too self-absorbed to really consider her own death in that regards)
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Where does the "forbidden template" thing originate from?
Magic
Yukari is fooling around again
Eirin's shady new drug
It's a Moriya Shrine conspiracy
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Komainu Set by Ennui Akadako.
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http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Translation/Magic_Team%27s_Extra
Alice: Not really. I'm just interested in souls.
I thought they might allow me to make independent dolls.
Besides, I don't think the elixir would work on youkai, would it?
I guess that kinda answers the question. The youkai in IN don't try to take the elixir because they aren't even sure it'll work on them (or at least, Alice isn't. Yukari and Yuyuko probably never needed it in the first place, which really just leaves Remilia, who seems to think of herself as immortal anyways since she was primarily interested in getting Sakuya to take it so Sakuya could serve her forever. Remilia's probably too self-absorbed to really consider her own death in that regards)
That explains why they don't want it, but I don't think Hourai Elixir won't work on youkai. Kaguya is a Lunarian, who are described as part human, part youkai, yet the Hourai Elixir is working just peachy for her.
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My understanding was that Eirin and Kaguya were just called "half-human, half-youkai" because the Gensokyo natives didn't know how else to classify them, and that Lunarians are "genetically" human. I could be wrong, though.
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K, so I have a few small questions.
1. Mima's title in Touhou 3: "Spirit Who Leaves Fate to the Dream of Eternity"
What does that mean really? Just wondering what you guys think.
2. Byakuren has a spell card called 「Yuugyou Hijiri」 in Double Spoiler that is supposed to somehow tell her backstory, including how she lived as a human. Does this spell actually say anything about her backstory? I'm just wondering, but I'm thinking the answer is no. I'm thinking that the point of the spell is to have the player follow Byakuren around the screen and dye her hair purple. Anyway, just wondering if I missed something.
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What's the term for people from Gensokyo?
"Gensokyonians" maybe?
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Touhous. Gensokyoan and Gensokyoian have been equally used in the western Touhou fandom, but you just don't do that shit mixing english with japanese. What do you call people from Tokyo? You call them japanese, not tokyoan or tokyoian or whatever the hell.
1. Mima's title in Touhou 3: "Spirit Who Leaves Fate to the Dream of Eternity"
What does that mean really? Just wondering what you guys think.
Mima: She just doesn't given a fuck.
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What's the term for people from Gensokyo?
"Gensokyonians" maybe?
I tend to call them 'Gensokyans', but the majority of the time they're just called Touhous in the West.
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I call them Touhous.
also 999
:getdown:
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What do you call people from Tokyo? You call them japanese, not tokyoan or tokyoian or whatever the hell.
Tokyojin. :getdown:
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I tend to call them 'Gensokyans', but the majority of the time they're just called Touhous in the West.
Touhous in the West sounds like an awesome movie.
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inb4 lock tbh
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Over 1000 posts worth of helping people out. Good show, you guys.