Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Tech Support => Topic started by: nintendonut888 on May 08, 2009, 11:08:00 PM
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Hi. I've recently noticed that in EoSD and PCB, there appears to be control lag for my right arrow key. When unfocused, it takes about 0.4 seconds for the game to have Marisa change directions when I release the arrow key. If anyone wouldn't mind, could they experiment and see if it's a problem with the game or just me? I'm not even sure if this has always been like this or not, but it's rather distressing.
The confusing part is that IN and on, and I'm pretty sure the PC-98 games have no such problems, and my loli stops on a dime when traveling in any direction.
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This is not a very active board.
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One last try before this sinks into the depths...never to be seen...again...
:'(
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I get this for EoSD and PCB:
Holding down right moves Marisa to the right.
While holding down right, I also now hold left. Marisa moves to the left.
Holding down left moves Marisa to the left.
While holding down left, I also now hold right. Marisa still moves to the left.
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I get this for IN+:
Holding down right moves Marisa to the right.
While holding down right, I also now hold left. Marisa still moves to the right.
Holding down left moves Marisa to the left.
While holding down left, I also now hold right. Marisa moves to the right.
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Then, for MS:
Holding down right moves Marisa to the right.
While holding down right, I also now hold left. Marisa still moves to the left.
Holding down left moves Marisa to the left.
While holding down left, I also now hold right. Marisa moves to the right.
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No delay in any case for me. All cases were unfocused; and could not produce your results.
Conclusion? The keyboard / CPU is messed. Going to investigate this further.
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This is not a very active board.
Yes, this isn't a very active board because it isn't a very big board, nor do many go to it. Be more patient when waiting for a response.
Anyway, yes, some games have lag: primarily EoSD, PCB, and IN. I've been able to cut down on some of the lag by disabling dsync (this makes PCB control a bit better, and it completely fixed IN's lag for me). However, I have no idea how to fully negate the lag experienced in EoSD and PCB.
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So it's not just me? That makes me feel much better, thanks.
...Wait, no it doesn't. Why do they have lag? D:
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Anyway, yes, some games have lag: primarily EoSD, PCB, and IN. I've been able to cut down on some of the lag by disabling dsync (this makes PCB control a bit better, and it completely fixed IN's lag for me). However, I have no idea how to fully negate the lag experienced in EoSD and PCB.
Yeah it's the same for me. The input lag in IN is in an okay level but PCB and EOSD have notable lag. I don't think there's a way to fix it unless someone somehow patches it, even though I hope there's a simple solution I don't know of.
I didn't have problem with playing on input lag in the past but now that I'm used to mostly to 0-1 frames of input lag it's kinda pain in the ass when I'm flying all over the place as the character can't keep up with me. I believe there's a program that lets you check the exact input lag but the person who I heard about it from couldn't find the link for it anymore. Maybe someone here knows?
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i expierienxe lag on PCB when i bomb and when i try to go diagnally right-down.
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I'm not sure about the lag, as I have never experienced myself, but the thing with double commands (pressing left and right at the same time) is easy and is just a hard-coded issue. I'll make a guess here as to how Zun's coded it and you can sorta understand why is that.
You character has some numeric variables such as FocusedSpeed and UnfocusedSpeed. If it's behaving like this is because Zun is probably using also some logic variables (true/false), in this case particularly probably something like: IsMovingLeft, IsMovingRight, IsMovingUp, IsMovingDown, IsFocused.
The game update loop (which updates all numeric variables for that frame before it gets to be drawn onto the screen) is likely to work in two steps. First he captures the user input, to know which keys are pressed, altering variables as necessary (If UP is pressed, set IsMovingUp to TRUE....). After that it goes into the main update loop.
This part of the main update loop is probably what causes that. Seeing what is happening he's likely to be doing something like this:
If player is Focused: Speed is FocusedSpeed
If not: Speed is Unfocused Speed.
If Player is moving horizontal, then:
If player is MovingRight: Position is CurrentPosition + SpeedHorizontal
If not (he is moving left): Position is CurrentPosition - SpeedHorizontal
and blah.
About the lag itself I don't really know what might be happening but I don't remember experiencing it either.
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I've never experienced lag like that. Maybe your frame rate dropped?
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My computer may suck, but give it some credit.
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Anyway, yes, some games have lag: primarily EoSD, PCB, and IN. I've been able to cut down on some of the lag by disabling dsync (this makes PCB control a bit better, and it completely fixed IN's lag for me). However, I have no idea how to fully negate the lag experienced in EoSD and PCB.
How do I disable dsync (whatever that is)?
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Yes, this isn't a very active board because it isn't a very big board, nor do many go to it. Be more patient when waiting for a response.
Anyway, yes, some games have lag: primarily EoSD, PCB, and IN. I've been able to cut down on some of the lag by disabling dsync (this makes PCB control a bit better, and it completely fixed IN's lag for me). However, I have no idea how to fully negate the lag experienced in EoSD and PCB.
So what's this about disabling dsynch? Where is it? Ever since I realized there was so much control lag I haven't been able to enjoy this game. It's seriously something I wish I could unlearn.
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A patient bump.
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dunno what dsync is but disabling v-sync and Triple buffering usually affect input lag. How to disable them depends on your graphics card, but usually you should be able to do that on your graphics driver's settings.
I think most of the time it should be off by default anyways (or application specified) and in some cases it might not affect the input lag at all.
And you're most likely not going to be able to get rid of akk the input lag in EOSD and PCB.
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None of those options are available on my graphics driver. >_>
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Well I noticed that in SWR I receive some input lag on my laptop. On the other games I have no lag whatsoever.
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Yea PCB and EoSD has some huge input delay, it's really annoying. That's probably why when MoF/SA came out people thought the controls were hypersensitive but actually there was just no more delay.
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None of those options are available on my graphics driver. >_>
Depending on what you have you might be able to download some tools that let you configure those settings. You'll propably find something after one or two searches on google.
Although if you never felt like there was significant input delay in IN I'd say you already have them set as off. You're not going to get rid of the input lag from EOSD and PCB. Everyone has the input lag for those games.
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Okay then. If nothing else, I finally know why I always sucked at unfocused movements in those games...
What causes the lag anyway? I know nothing of programming, but lag doesn't sound like the kind of thing that should be there or could be gotten rid of easily.
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I don't know if this is common knowledge, but VsyncPatch (http://coolier.sytes.net:8080/th_up3/file/th3_8419.zip) fixed the massive input lag in EoSD and PCB for me. Some very subtle lag is left, but that's probably inherent to the games.
From the 東方シリーズ VsyncPatch folder in the archive, put vpatch.exe, vpatch.ini and the respective vpatch_thxx.dll in the game's directory and run it with vpatch.exe. A nice side-feature is that you can Ctrl-skip replays in the older games now as well.
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Awesome, Phar.
It really helpful, i felt like playing different game. I thought EoSD control was already good enough, but this patch really eliminates the lag.
Thank you very much.
EDIT : Am i playing Touhou right now? The feeling is very different.
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Holy CRAP, that VSync patch does absolute wonders. After playing PCB for almost a year and getting used to its crappy input, switching to this feels like a completely different experience. A thousand thanks for that patch Phar.
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._. Looking forward to this when I get home.
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I wonder after that Vsync patch was out for MoTK community there will be sudden increase of skill.
Mods, please sticky that patch, it is a staple for playing Touhou.
score.royalflare is going to be invaded...
EDIT : it felt like cheating. Sudden increase to 3,69B in IN because of said patch lolwut.
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I wonder after that Vsync patch was out for MoTK community there will be sudden increase of skill.
Mods, please sticky that patch, it is a staple for playing Touhou.
score.royalflare is going to be invaded...
EDIT : it felt like cheating. Sudden increase to 3,69B in IN because of said patch lolwut.
I think it was stickied in the old forums; it's where I found it in the first place. I'm surprised so few people seem to know of its existence.
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I think it was stickied in the old forums; it's where I found it in the first place. I'm surprised so few people seem to know of its existence.
So, after lurking in MoTK for more than one year, i failed to find the patch?
...
I'm ashamed. Please, don't hit me for this, people ._.
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I don't know if this is common knowledge, but VsyncPatch (http://coolier.sytes.net:8080/th_up3/file/th3_8419.zip) fixed the massive input lag in EoSD and PCB for me. Some very subtle lag is left, but that's probably inherent to the games.
From the 東方シリーズ VsyncPatch folder in the archive, put vpatch.exe, vpatch.ini and the respective vpatch_thxx.dll in the game's directory and run it with vpatch.exe. A nice side-feature is that you can Ctrl-skip replays in the older games now as well.
Well damn, PCB just became playable again. The patch isn't working for EoSD though (it refuses to start), and I have no idea why. Might need to reacquire a fresh copy of the game from somewhere.
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Well damn, PCB just became playable again. The patch isn't working for EoSD though (it refuses to start), and I have no idea why. Might need to reacquire a fresh copy of the game from somewhere.
It requires the game .exe to have the original name. So for EoSD, this is 東方紅魔郷.exe (you can rename the English .exe to this to keep the game in English)
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It requires the game .exe to have the original name. So for EoSD, this is 東方紅魔郷.exe (you can rename the English .exe to this to keep the game in English)
You're a star. I did try renaming the .exe to th06 (assumed that was the default), but wasn't sure what to do when that didn't work. Anyways, it's working fine now.
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Renaming it to that STILL doesn't work for me. =
You have to use applocale (Japanese) as well.
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I haven't downloaded this yet, but I just realized...if the control lag is fixed, won't that make every single replay made before getting this patch not work?
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I haven't downloaded this yet, but I just realized...if the control lag is fixed, won't that make every single replay made before getting this patch not work?
Nope. Well, it shouldn't.
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Just tried it, and the replays work fine. I tried playing an older replay with the vsync.exe as well as a new replay with the normal .exe, and neither of them desynced or did anything.
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I've known about this patch for a while now, but I thought for the longest time that all it did was allow you to skip through replays like in the newer games. I can't believe I didn't know of the lag removal.
PCB plays amazingly. I kind of want to play Touhou now :O
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Well then, I've just gotta try this. Once I finish up with StB.
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*comes out of his extended Touhou break to see what everyone's raving about.
Holy shit. That feels sooooooo much more smooth.
Too bad I suck so badly now that I'm dying on Alice's non-cards and Chalk White Russian Dolls. (Edit: and Lingering Cold. Twice.)
Maybe I can stop bitching about the EoSD deathbomb window and finally 1cc it too.
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Ah, the Vsynch patch. Been too lazy to get it for awhile now, but now that I've got it...awesome! Movement is actually smooth.
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Ignore this post, I can't count.
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Okay, the vpatch doesn't work for EoSD. I renamed eosde to 東方紅魔郷.exe, run it in applocale, and the lag isn't fixed. When I try to run vpatch.exe, the thing crashes. ???
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=357.msg17124#msg17124
Remember applocale after you rename it
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Yeah...? That's what I did. And it won't run.
It works for PCB though. But I can't run it in English! D: How do you run the vpatch.exe AND have it in English at the same time?
But also, for PCB, I noticed something disturbing...there are these lines that appear constantly. Like refresh lines. It doesn't slow the game down or anything, but it's really distracting and breaks the game flow.
EDIT: Wait, I got it to work.
However, these lines really bug me. They break the flow and such. I realize it's a small price to pay for perfect movement (which is really <3 BTW), but isn't there a way to get rid of these?
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It works for PCB though. But I can't run it in English! D: How do you run the vpatch.exe AND have it in English at the same time?
Protip: rename th07.exe to th07j.exe and th07e.exe to th07.exe to get it in English.
But also, for PCB, I noticed something disturbing...there are these lines that appear constantly. Like refresh lines. It doesn't slow the game down or anything, but it's really distracting and breaks the game flow.
Because the way this patch works in part is forcing vertical sync off, you will occasionally get "tearing" across frames when they don't align properly due to the lack of vertical sync. This is a mild annoyance at worst and the massive improvement in responsiveness of the games is very much worth it for occasional tearing. Just make sure that you're not using the vsync patch when recording a run for youtube/etc if tearing tends to appear, if you find this to be an issue at all.
Also, curiously enough, the tearing does not occur in IN with vsync off, at least not as far as I can tell. Need to poke around some more in the codebase to see why.
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*sigh* That really sucks. Control lag or imperfect graphics? Can't have it all...V_V
But I agree the amazing control increase is worth it. I just wish there was a way to fix this tearing...
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*sigh* That really sucks. Control lag or imperfect graphics? Can't have it all...V_V
But I agree the amazing control increase is worth it. I just wish there was a way to fix this tearing...
Go into the .ini, change vsync from 0 to 1.
The lag is still fixed for me, plus no tearing.
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What's the .ini? The config file?
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What's the .ini? The config file?
Yeah, vpatch.ini.
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Alas, that only makes it worse. It causes one break to constantly appear in the middle of the screen. Ah well. :(
In other news, thank you so much for showing this to me. I just beat Alice only getting hit on Benevolent Orleans Dolls and Hanged Hourai Dolls. :O
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Holy shit this patch is amazing. I just easily captured Phliosopher's stone on my first try :V
EDIT: This is amazing ಥ_ಥ
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zomg. wish I got this sooner. I don't need it so much for esod (I think, maybe Is hould try it anyway just to see), but for pcb...*drools*.
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sigh my comp isn't able to type japanese so I can''t rename it properly. Anybody know a site or something that lets me install the japanese input stuff? I don't mean just the font. I mean when you go under regional and languages, advanced, and check japanese, it asks for my windows xp cd which I'm currently too lazy to look for atm.
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Since this has kind of turned in to a vpatch help thread, I've been able to get it to work with EoSD, PCB, and MoF (the games I've been experiencing some problems with unpatched). It apparently also has a fix for Danmakufu, but I get an error in Japanese with the letters "UPX". That error seems to be listed in the readme file, but that's about as far as I can figure out.
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Since this has kind of turned in to a vpatch help thread, I've been able to get it to work with EoSD, PCB, and MoF (the games I've been experiencing some problems with unpatched). It apparently also has a fix for Danmakufu, but I get an error in Japanese with the letters "UPX". That error seems to be listed in the readme file, but that's about as far as I can figure out.
It says the .exe is compressed with UPX and needs to be decompressed first. Google gives me http://upx.sourceforge.net/ (http://upx.sourceforge.net/). You could try that (I've never heard of the program).
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Huh, I haven't heard of that before either. But, decompressing the .exe though that program seems to have done it. Thank you. It's good to finally get a constant 60 FPS in windowed mode.
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Most of what vpatch does is pretty self-explanatory, but does anyone know what the following entries in vpatch.ini are for?
SleepType = 1
BltPrepareTime = 4
AutoBltPrepareTime = 1
AlwaysBlt = 0
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On Vista, I still can't get the patch to work with EoSD; I've tried renaming the .exe and all that jazz (as well as the whole "because Vista sucks, always remember to run everything under admin mode"). Anyone have any ideas?
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On Vista, I still can't get the patch to work with EoSD; I've tried renaming the .exe and all that jazz (as well as the whole "because Vista sucks, always remember to run everything under admin mode"). Anyone have any ideas?
Same problem :(
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I don't have vista, and I rarely use it. so I don't know if you can even do what I suggest but. Assuming you haven't already, did you try turning your vsync and TH06 exes property settings for earlier windows compatibility? (doing that never works for me with anything but other people claim it does for them, bleh.
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Nice idea, but no dice. For me at least.
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It's worked for me for PCB, IN, SA, MoF. But It doesn't like TH09. anybody been able to get it to work for that one? Kinda a shame since the input lag on that one is about as bad as pcb too for me.
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I just noticed - the error message that shows when I try to run th06 under the vsync patch is gibberish, does this mean that I don't have all the language packs that I need? (I can type in and see japanese text usually)
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I just noticed - the error message that shows when I try to run th06 under the vsync patch is gibberish, does this mean that I don't have all the language packs that I need? (I can type in and see japanese text usually)
Dunno. works for me, here's what I did.
1:regional and language options in control panal->advanced, checkbox Japanese (10001)
2: -> languages (next to advanced), check "install files for east asian languages
Apply and restart computer
3: Download both files at:
http://alcahest.club.fr/perso/apploc/applocale.html
4: install the msi, then install the reg (just double click on it).. MAKE SURE you install the one that says install not uninstall >=P.
5: rightclick the vsync patch in esod folder, and select "locale Japanese".
I realize this is an awful lot like the sticky post but meh, who knows.
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I just noticed - the error message that shows when I try to run th06 under the vsync patch is gibberish, does this mean that I don't have all the language packs that I need? (I can type in and see japanese text usually)
System messages should be gibberish if you're running a non-Japanese locale - even if you have Japanese fonts installed. Anyway, Works For Me on Vista, but then, I'm running on a Japanese locale in the first place. Maybe you could try switching. If it still gives you the error, make a screenshot of it.
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System messages should be gibberish if you're running a non-Japanese locale - even if you have Japanese fonts installed. Anyway, Works For Me on Vista, but then, I'm running on a Japanese locale in the first place. Maybe you could try switching. If it still gives you the error, make a screenshot of it.
IT
WORKS
HAHAHA
THANK YOU! <3
/caps
For bjw (if you still have the problem):
Ok so I changed two things - my display language and my non-unicode language. I still got the error after merely changing my display language, so I know that it was the non-unicode swap that made the difference, but it might still require the display language to be changed.
For the non-unicode language change, simply go to control panel --> regional and language options --> admin tab --> change system locale --> etc (it just occurred to me that this is probably what Phar meant... guess I took the long route, computer noob that I am)
For the display language change, I found a freeware program called 'Vistalizator' that allows you to, uh, change the display language by downloading microsoft... oh, just go here (http://www.teknobites.com/2008/11/03/install-additional-language-packs-in-windows-vista-home-or-home-premium/).
I am now going to switch my display language back to english to see if only the non-unicode language change was necessary or not.
edit:
Oh lol, I cannot but help laugh at myself. I went on a wild goose chase through google and forums, and rebooted my laptop several times to finally change my display language, and it turns out that all I had to do was change an option in the control panel.
Still.
Thanks again Phar :D
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(it just occurred to me that this is probably what Phar meant... guess I took the long route, computer noob that I am)
Haha, sorry about that, I should have been more clear. Good to hear it works, though. The display language changing thing is a standard feature in Vista Ultimate, by the way, but it's not necessary at all to change it.
So Applocale apparently works on XP, but not on Vista?
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Haha, sorry about that, I should have been more clear. Good to hear it works, though. The display language changing thing is a standard feature in Vista Ultimate, by the way, but it's not necessary at all to change it.
So Applocale apparently works on XP, but not on Vista?
Yeah XP and '03 only.
And I have Home Premium (old laptop I guess), so I needed to download that program to change the display language.
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I was already in Japanese Locale. Also, I tried Vistalizator; no dice. :(
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That is not enticing me to get Vista even more. But I have no choice. D: I don't think I can go back to playing laggy EoSD and PCB, I just don't.
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Hi, I've been trying to get the vsync patch to work on EoSD - it works perfectly on PCB and others. I've tried everything mentioned in the thread so far (I'm on Vista) and am now running a Japanese locale and have renamed the game to 東方紅魔郷. What I now get is an error message in Japanese characters instead of gibberish. Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? It'd be greatly appreciated - after playing the patched PCB, EoSD now feels like the characters are flying through cheese instead of air. <_<
Edit: Okay actually nevermind, I just fixed it somehow by moving my EoSD folder over to my other hard drive. I think having Windows 7 installed on the same drive as what was going on with the whole japanese and locale stuff screwed up somewhere? I can't think of any other reason for something weird like that to have happened.
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I heard Applocale works on Vista, it's just that you need to do the following steps(gotten from a quick search on google)
The installation problem is likely caused by User Account Control security measure. If you turn off User Account Control, the error likely to go away and Applocale can be installed properly. However, here is another workaround that do not need you to take security risk by disabling UAC.
1. Run an elevated command prompt by right clicking on Command Prompt on Start Menu and then select ?Run as Administrator?.
2. Click on Continue when User Account Control dialog prompt comes out.
3. Change directory to the folder where you put the apploc.msi Windows Installer Package.
4. Type apploc.msi to start the setup.
5. The Applocale installation will complete successfully.
If you really want to run Applocale; you need to run it as an elevated command. I needed to install it for some Japanese programs I use, and have found that the following solution helps.
1. Right Click on the Command Prompt option on the Start Menu and choose Run as administrator.
2. Click Continue when the User Account Control dialog comes up (assuming you have UAC activated).
3. From the Command Prompt, just run X:\Directory\apploc.msi (where X is the drive and "Directory" is your directory path) and it should install without any trouble at all. Hope this helps.
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Didn't see this. I'm allowing this patch. I shouldn't, but I am.
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I actually cannot see a difference in the controls with PCB and IN. I did do A LOT better with the patch than before; I 1cc'ed lunatic with 4 lives in stock remaining, a lot better than normal. I 1cc'ed IN on hard with 4 lives back in stock and beat my high score. Is it really the patch or did my skill just skyrocket overnight?
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Holy shi~! To think that IN and earlier games could be easier to play by simply adding this thing. My skills are still crap but the fact that I can finally move my character the way I want her to is awesome enough for me.
BTW. How come there are also patches for 10 and 11? Is there still lag in those games?
P.S. Sticky this patch FOR GREAT JUSTICE! (honestly...even the touhou wiki doesn't in any way mention it)
@BoLaD
have you tried constantly switching over to patched and unpatched when playing either games? I tried just once during an EoSD run and quickly noticed how sluggish the original was. Same thing for PCB.
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I was getting exited when I found out about this patch but it turns out I can't use it for any of the games. AppLocal won't work and setting vista to japanese won't work either. I get the same error message as one of the post before me but moving the folder didn't work(I placed it on another HDD in the root folder(C:eosd)). It's weird since applocal always works for me.
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Didn't see this. I'm allowing this patch. I shouldn't, but I am.
Nothing wrong with allowing something that allows better control. Your skill still determines the results.
And IIRC the lag is completely fixed from MoF on. If there's any it sure as hell is small, because I can make those elegant dodges VoWG lunatic requires no problem. Even in IN the lag, while noticeable, doesn't impact my playing in any way.
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And IIRC the lag is completely fixed from MoF on. If there's any it sure as hell is small, because I can make those elegant dodges VoWG lunatic requires no problem. Even in IN the lag, while noticeable, doesn't impact my playing in any way.
Are you talking about with or without the patch?
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Without. I only use the patch for EoSD and PCB, the two games that spurred me to make this thread in the first place.
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Since this has kind of turned in to a vpatch help thread, I've been able to get it to work with EoSD, PCB, and MoF (the games I've been experiencing some problems with unpatched). It apparently also has a fix for Danmakufu, but I get an error in Japanese with the letters "UPX". That error seems to be listed in the readme file, but that's about as far as I can figure out.
It says the .exe is compressed with UPX and needs to be decompressed first. Google gives me http://upx.sourceforge.net/ (http://upx.sourceforge.net/). You could try that (I've never heard of the program).
I tried using this, but the UPX.exe closes as soon as it opens. What am I doing wrong? :x
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You don't run it standaone as there's no GUI. It's for a command line.
Put th_dnh.exe in the same directory as upx. Create a new Notepad document and write udx -d th_dnh.exe, then save it as a .bat file in the same directory as upx. Run the bat file.
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Still not working. I'm so confused. xD
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If you did it as I said, it should have worked. Nothing pops up or whatever after you start the bat file. Try starting up vpatch now.
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Okay, finally got it running. It runs at a perfect 60 fps...
when I'm not doing anything. Once I play through something, after a minute, everything slows down to 30 fps.
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The vsync patch is awesome. It makes input lag disappear, so the PCB characters respond to controls immediately (instead of moving/bombing too late, and stopping too late). It's like playing while permanently focused, yet still fast movement.
Now I can finally abuse Reimu's hitbox the way it was meant to be abused :V
(maybe this is how the no-focus people achieve their neat replays?)
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OH MY GOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EoSD is playable on my computer now!
On my old computer that I've been using for this game, Windows 98se, there was the lag that this thread was talking about and frame rate changes that actually depended on how long the computer has been on, (starts at 60.00, hour or two later, 58.82, then hour or two after that, 62.50 and stay that way forever, until I reboot) and then I got a new computer with Windows 7 and the frame rate is near perfect (60.00 and every few seconds, drop for a second by 2 frames). It was also very blipy. Every two seconds, everything would get choppy.
Vsync really helped! No blips, frame rate still does what it does but not noticeable, and movement is AWESOME!!! I just have to remember to open up vsync every time I want to play EoSD.
P.S. For some reason, the volume is cranked WAY up on it now, and it's not me messing with my computer either, it wasn't like that before. I'm not sure what that's about.