Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Tech Support => Topic started by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 02, 2016, 03:19:25 AM

Title: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 02, 2016, 03:19:25 AM
Hello,
I just bought a new pc, installed Windows 7 Ultimate, and am trying to run the pc98 Touhous on it, and they are very laggy. Its very noticeable, the bullets are very jittery. They weren't like this on my older laptop, and this pc is far more powerful, so what gives? I tried all 3 emulators, but no luck :( I used to use Anex86 before on my older laptop and never had any trouble, but even Anex isn't helping here. Any help please?
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 02, 2016, 06:47:00 AM
What are the models & specs of your current PC and your older laptop? (CPU and GPU)
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 02, 2016, 07:19:06 AM
Hello Shockdude, thank you for your assistance. :D

My new pc has i7-4790, GTX-980Ti, 32GB RAM, 1 SSD, 2 HDDs.

The old laptop is an Acer Extensa 5630EZ. It has a dual core processor 2GHz, Onboard GPU Mobile Intel GL40 Express, 2GB RAM, 1 HDD.

I don't get how my new pc is making the games choppy, when my old laptop which is much lower spec had no problems. :/

I tried out Touhou 7 and Seihou 1 also. Touhou 7 has a slight lag, but bearable although wouldn't enjoy playing the game that way. Seihou is almost unplayable.

Is it something from my graphic card? I tried re-installing it again, and tampered around with V-sync in the Nvidia Control Panel, but not much improvement.

Thank you for any help. I really appreciate it :)
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 02, 2016, 07:37:02 AM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 02, 2016, 07:19:06 AM
Hello Shockdude, thank you for your assistance. :D

My new pc has i7-4790, GTX-980Ti, 32GB RAM, 1 SSD, 2 HDDs.

The old laptop is an Acer Extensa 5630EZ. It has a dual core processor 2GHz, Onboard GPU Mobile Intel GL40 Express, 2GB RAM, 1 HDD.

I don't get how my new pc is making the games choppy, when my old laptop which is much lower spec had no problems. :/

I tried out Touhou 7 and Seihou 1 also. Touhou 7 has a slight lag, but bearable although wouldn't enjoy playing the game that way. Seihou is almost unplayable.

Is it something from my graphic card? I tried re-installing it again, and tampered around with V-sync in the Nvidia Control Panel, but not much improvement.

Thank you for any help. I really appreciate it :)
Not a problem. That's quite a PC you got, very nice.
Out of curiosity, why Windows 7 instead of Windows 10?

Leave the Nvidia VSync settings to default.

For PCB, what is the "slight lag" that you describe? Input delay, or stutter? What does the FPS counter in the lower-right say? Also, have you tried both fullscreen and windowed?

You don't have a GSync monitor, do you? What's the current refresh rate of your monitor? 60Hz is recommended for Touhou.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 02, 2016, 09:21:07 AM
Thank you :) I Bought it that powerful to be able to record my gameplay as well. Hopefully my specs are enough. (I never recorded before so I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject). So far its been nothing but stressful though! No point in having a beast if you can't play your favorite games on it! :(

I had read that Windows 10 doesn't support all the Touhous, and to get all the Seihous to work correctly might be an issue on it. Didn't want to take any chances so I went with 7 since they say all Touhous work on it. Correct me if I'm wrong about any of these statements.

For PCB the lag I feel is input delay. Hopefully the V-sync patch could fix that? For the PC-98 Touhous and Seihou the problem is stutter.  PCB FPS stays above 59 all the time, most of the time at a constant 59.95. Yes I tried both, Windowed seems to be better, although still not 100% responsive as I remember it. Would prefer full screen though, windowed is very small to play on, and I play no bombs so can't afford any clip deaths because of a small screen/window! Windowed would ruin the experience :(

No, no g-sync, just a standard LCD 46" tv (not monitor). Refresh rate is 100 Hz. I have the tv set to PC mode to reduce input lag, and am connected with a VGA to DVI adapter. (I tried HDMI but the colors were really out of place on the PC98 Touhous and Seihou). With my old laptop I used to be connected by VGA to VGA in case it's important to point out.

Thank you once again for any help and for looking into this :) I know it's taking up your time as well.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 02, 2016, 11:39:48 PM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 02, 2016, 09:21:07 AM
Thank you :) I Bought it that powerful to be able to record my gameplay as well. Hopefully my specs are enough. (I never recorded before so I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject). So far its been nothing but stressful though! No point in having a beast if you can't play your favorite games on it! :(
You'll definitely be able to record gameplay and much more once everything gets settled.
Quote
I had read that Windows 10 doesn't support all the Touhous, and to get all the Seihous to work correctly might be an issue on it. Didn't want to take any chances so I went with 7 since they say all Touhous work on it. Correct me if I'm wrong about any of these statements.
Fair enough, Windows 10 does have compatibility issues with some Touhou games out of the box.
There is a fix available for Touhou games on Windows 10 (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Game_Tools_and_Modifications#DX8_to_DX9_converter), but I have no idea if it works with Seihou, and I don't know anything about PC-98 emulation.
Quote
For PCB the lag I feel is input delay. Hopefully the V-sync patch could fix that? For the PC-98 Touhous and Seihou the problem is stutter.  PCB FPS stays above 59 all the time, most of the time at a constant 59.95. Yes I tried both, Windowed seems to be better, although still not 100% responsive as I remember it. Would prefer full screen though, windowed is very small to play on, and I play no bombs so can't afford any clip deaths because of a small screen/window! Windowed would ruin the experience :(

No, no g-sync, just a standard LCD 46" tv (not monitor). Refresh rate is 100 Hz. I have the tv set to PC mode to reduce input lag, and am connected with a VGA to DVI adapter. (I tried HDMI but the colors were really out of place on the PC98 Touhous and Seihou). With my old laptop I used to be connected by VGA to VGA in case it's important to point out.
PCB is infamous for its huge input delay. Set up the VSync patch asap.
59.95FPS is ok, but it should be a perfect 60.00FPS. This tells me your computer is outputting 59.94Hz (TV standard) instead of 60Hz (computer monitor standard). While 59.94Hz isn't bad, there should be a way to force it to 60Hz.
See: http://www.vsynctester.com/. On my monitor, it's 60.000Hz.

What is the Seihou/PC-98 stutter like? Full speed with occasional skips? How frequent are the stutters?

What resolution is your HDTV, 1080p?
Edit: While you're at it, what model TV do you have? If possible, can you post an image of your picture settings?

You should be using an HDMI cable. The colors should not be out of place, there's something off in your config.
Connect the HDMI cable to the TV and set the TV to PC mode. Can you post screenshots of the Nvidia Control Panel's screen resolution and color settings? Feel free to post other relevant screenshots.

Quote
Thank you once again for any help and for looking into this :) I know it's taking up your time as well.
Not a problem.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 03, 2016, 12:47:39 AM
Hello Shockdude,
got some good news! After LOADS of research, I found that my Realtek audio driver was messing with the audio drivers, so I formatted my OS and did a clean install and didn't install the Realtek audio drivers this time (using the ones which Windows Update installed automatically instead), and it is much better! Seihou is perfect, no lag/stutter whatsoever! The PC98 games still have some stutter though, but much better than they were :) Still not 100% happy with them though.

Glad to hear the pc is powerful enough to be able to record once this headache is over :)Can't wait!! :D

Yes I have the Windows tool you linked me to, but it says it only has support up to Touhou 9.5. Worried to go onto Windows 10 in case it doesn't support Touhou 10,11,12 etc.

I ran the Vsync tester you told me, its showing 60 Hz. I attached a screenshot.

Well after the new install, Seihou's lag left now, but it was similar to the PC98 one I'm experiencing now but worse. No, its not full speed with stutters, its like the bullets are coming down in steps rather than a fluid motion like usual. Happens like every second.

My TV is 1920x1080p, but I'm set at 1360, text is too small to read when set at full 1920. Model is a Samsung LE46A656A1FXXC. Picture settings are mostly greyed out (so I can't change them) since I'm on PC Mode. But these are what there is:
Mode: Dynamic
Backlight: 7
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 50 (greyed out)
Colour Tone: Normal
Size: 16:9
Screen Mode: 16:9 (greyed out)
Digital NR: Auto (greyed out)
DNIe: Off (greyed out)
HDMI Black Level: Normal (greyed out)
100Hz Motion Plus: Off (greyed out)

I attached my Nvidia Control Panel settings.

When I tried with HDMI, the colours really blended into each other to the point where it was looking messy, example in Seihou's title screen, Vivit's hair looked like a clump of bright red and the slight black lines in her hair don't show because the red is all over them. Also, for some reason when in HDMI I was losing parts of the top, bottom, and sides from Seihou. Other Touhou games weren't affected though, but the colours still looked really ugly. I don't mind keeping it in VGA/DVI. Can't play Seihou with half of Vivit missing! I lost about an inch and a half from all sides of the screen!

Thanks once again. Sorry for the long post! :/
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 03, 2016, 01:10:28 AM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 03, 2016, 12:47:39 AM
Hello Shockdude,
got some good news! After LOADS of research, I found that my Realtek audio driver was messing with the audio drivers, so I formatted my OS and did a clean install and didn't install the Realtek audio drivers this time (using the ones which Windows Update installed automatically instead), and it is much better! Seihou is perfect, no lag/stutter whatsoever! The PC98 games still have some stutter though, but much better than they were :) Still not 100% happy with them though.

Glad to hear the pc is powerful enough to be able to record once this headache is over :)Can't wait!! :D
Awesome. Enjoy your games!
Quote
Yes I have the Windows tool you linked me to, but it says it only has support up to Touhou 9.5. Worried to go onto Windows 10 in case it doesn't support Touhou 10,11,12 etc.
Everything Touhou 10 and later works fine on Windows 10. But nbd.
Quote
I ran the Vsync tester you told me, its showing 60 Hz. I attached a screenshot.
Yep that's 60Hz, but that's at 768p. At 480p, the games are likely running at 59.94Hz. It's honestly not a big deal, and it won't be the cause of the stutter.
Quote
Well after the new install, Seihou's lag left now, but it was similar to the PC98 one I'm experiencing now but worse. No, its not full speed with stutters, its like the bullets are coming down in steps rather than a fluid motion like usual. Happens like every second.
By "full speed" I mean if the game itself isn't running slowly; the time to beat stage 1 is unchanged despite the stutter.
Still, that's really odd. This is in both fullscreen and windowed? What PC-98 emulator are you using?
Quote
My TV is 1920x1080p, but I'm set at 1360, text is too small to read when set at full 1920. Model is a Samsung LE46A656A1FXXC. Picture settings are mostly greyed out (so I can't change them) since I'm on PC Mode. But these are what there is:
Mode: Dynamic
Backlight: 7
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 50 (greyed out)
Colour Tone: Normal
Size: 16:9
Screen Mode: 16:9 (greyed out)
Digital NR: Auto (greyed out)
DNIe: Off (greyed out)
HDMI Black Level: Normal (greyed out)
100Hz Motion Plus: Off (greyed out)
This is a personal opinion, but please change that to Standard. I bet you aren't able to see every distinct color in this test image if you don't. (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php) All other TV settings look good, but you can adjust the backlight to taste.
Quote
I attached my Nvidia Control Panel settings.

When I tried with HDMI, the colours really blended into each other to the point where it was looking messy, example in Seihou's title screen, Vivit's hair looked like a clump of bright red and the slight black lines in her hair don't show because the red is all over them. Also, for some reason when in HDMI I was losing parts of the top, bottom, and sides from Seihou. Other Touhou games weren't affected though, but the colours still looked really ugly. I don't mind keeping it in VGA/DVI. Can't play Seihou with half of Vivit missing! I lost about an inch and a half from all sides of the screen!
The reason I suggest HDMI is for input lag and image quality reasons. The color issues and cropped screen is a misconfig which can be easily fixed in your TV settings and in the Nvidia Control Panel, if you wish.
While I highly recommend doing this, it's also probably not related to the PC-98 stutter.

Edit: I just realized: by using HDMI you bypass Realtek audio completely. This may actually fix your issue.
There's likely a special HDMI port on your TV labeled "PC." Connect the HDMI cable to that specific port, then change the port to PC mode. In your TV settings, change Screen Mode until the image is no longer cropped, and change HDMI Black Level to Normal. Done.
Quote
Thanks once again. Sorry for the long post! :/
Again, not a problem.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 03, 2016, 01:47:18 AM
Hello again Shockdude,
once again I have good news. My problem is fixed!!! After that format and clean install its like a miracle came over the pc! I updated all my other drivers except for the graphic card (left it with the driver from Windows Update), and did not install the Realtek driver. All the PC98 games are working fine now, except on Anex86. They were perfect on T98 and Neko though! :D

Yes thankfully I can start enjoying this new pc now :) Now just to experiment with recording programs and see which one suits my liking. I need something 1080p 60fps. Was thinking about OBS. . . I hear good things about that one. Any opinions?

That's awesome, didn't know that about Windows 10! Thanks for the insight! :D

The time to beat the stage would have been the same, but a I said the bullets were coming down in steps, so it didn't feel fluid at all and deters from the overall experience/enjoyment of the game! Yes it was doing it in both Full and Windowed, although more noticeable in Full. (but that could be cuz the screen is bigger, so its easier to notice)

You are right, the difference in colours does show more when in Standard as opposed to Dynamic! Whats the point to Dynamic then?

HDMI has less input lag than VGA or the other way round, since VGA is a native source? I'll have to experiment with the HDMI more, especially now that the games are working, but before switching over to VGA, I tried all the different screen options/sizes, and none of them fit Seihou into the screen correctly. Windows and all the other games were fine, but Seihou had the sides cropped for some reason :/ So its a problem specific to Seihou over HDMI, not my whole display that needs cropping.

I know I thanked you in every post, but just would like to thank you once again. Lots of your time went into this, over these past 2 days, and I really appreciate the help and support. Keeping the Touhou community strong!! :D
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 03, 2016, 02:49:19 AM
Glad to hear everything worked out!

IIRC OBS works pretty well, but if you want to record fullscreen on older Windows Touhou games then you might need to set up the DX8 to DX9 converter (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Game_Tools_and_Modifications#DX8_to_DX9_converter), even on Windows 10.

If you plan to play PC games other than Touhou, then you should update the graphics driver to the latest version (http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx). Otherwise, the Windows Update driver should be ok.

The Dynamic Mode of HDTVs make TVs look "brighter", at the cost of color accuracy and usually entire colors. It helps TV manufacturers sell TVs in brightly-lit showrooms, and is awful in nearly all other cases.

HDMI should have less input lag than VGA. Everything is digital these days; the DVI to VGA adapter converts digital video to analog video, and the TV reconverts it back to digital. With HDMI, everything is digital with no conversion.

It's odd that only Seihou gets cropped over HDMI. Have you checked all the screen size options with Seihou running? One of your TV remote buttons should be an "INFO" button that tells you what resolution is currently being used; what resolution is Seihou using?

Happy to help, thanks.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 03, 2016, 09:46:50 AM
Thank you for your good wishes :)

I'll experiment around with some recording programs, thanks for informing me about needing to set up DX8 to DX9 for recording some of the older Windows Touhous.

Haha no, all I play is Touhou seriously, I live for that game, completely obsessed by it, such a beautiful world. Since I discovered it, it's all I do. Been 2 years and a half now just dedicating my life to it lol. Trying to no bomb Lunatic with every character for every game, then clear the ultras, and a plethora of fan games, got enough to keep me busy for a lifetime haha :D

Oh ok, didn't know that about Dynamic mode, thought it had something to do with the dynamic contrast so stuff blurs less. So, apart from this pc, I have a laptop connected by HDMI just to watch anime off of, should I switch my mode from Dynamic to Standard for this one also?

I'll definitely experiment with the HDMI again tonight after work. Yes I tried out all the different options for sizes that the tv offers, none gives a perfect fit (with VGA its fitting perfectly). Yes very weird about the Seihou crop, especially since I don't think its from the TV's side, but from the pc when seeing it connected with HDMI. You know how the gameplay screen in Seihou is in the centre of the screen, then has 2 huge black borders on the sides, the text for where Left (Lives) and Bombs is also cut quite a bit, not letting you see the number of lives and bombs properly. This is weird because its like the pc is adjusting to crop even the gameplay screen, and not just fit the whole picture with the black borders. To try explaining better and be clearer: When on the title screen, the picture is full screen, but part of the picture is cropped from the sides, like out of the tv borders/screen. When in game then, its like the picture is getting cropped from the game's black borders, not the tv. Like, if its meant to say bombs or lives are at 2, the 2 has most of it cut out! This is weird when then there's like 10" of black borders on both sides!

I'll have to check the resolution with the INFO button when I get home. I'll update later tonight! :D

Thanks once again, you've been beyond helpful. Take care :)
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 03, 2016, 07:17:02 PM
I played around with the HDMI and it really makes my games look washed out. I think I'll stick to DVI. My tv doesn't have DVI though, can I use a HDMI to DVI cable? Will that give me the same washed out look the HDMI does, or the clear picture the DVI port is providing?

Update for Seihou: I tried it out again on HDMI, it's still cropped, the colours look really washed out and white-ish. I tried all the tv size settings, it just won't fit. I pressed the INFO button, its saying 640 x 480 @ 60 Hz.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 04, 2016, 02:00:04 AM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 03, 2016, 07:17:02 PM
I played around with the HDMI and it really makes my games look washed out. I think I'll stick to DVI. My tv doesn't have DVI though, can I use a HDMI to DVI cable? Will that give me the same washed out look the HDMI does, or the clear picture the DVI port is providing?

Update for Seihou: I tried it out again on HDMI, it's still cropped, the colours look really washed out and white-ish. I tried all the tv size settings, it just won't fit. I pressed the INFO button, its saying 640 x 480 @ 60 Hz.
DVI and HDMI are identical, except HDMI also carries audio (digital audio = high quality) and has a differently shaped port. I'd stick with HDMI if possible.
Washed out colors = misconfig on your computer's end. I'm assuming you set the TV's Black Level to Normal. There should be a Nvidia Control Panel setting somewhere to change the color to "Full Range". Copy the settings in the picture below.
(https://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Nvidia-dynamic-range-option.png)
Once again use the Lagom.nl contrast page (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php) to make sure the colors are correct.

No idea why Seihou is cropped. It's running at the correct 640x480, which is weird.
Are you sure none of the other Touhou games are cropped? What does the INFO button say with them?
In the TV settings, you've tried both the "16:9" and "Screen Fit" settings? Is the TV still in PC mode when running Seihou?
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on October 04, 2016, 04:00:30 AM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 03, 2016, 07:17:02 PM
I tried all the tv size settings, it just won't fit. I pressed the INFO button, its saying 640 x 480 @ 60 Hz.
Make sure to set the TV to disable panel fitting or similar. A 640x480 signal has a 4:3 ratio and your TV has a 16:9 ratio. Stretching it to fit the entire screen is generally never a good thing to do, so see if there's an option to maintain the original aspect ratio. With the TV turned on and set to the proper input, look in the nvidia driver settings panel, see if there's any scaling options, and set it to do scaling on the graphics card while maintaining the original aspect ratio. The reason for this is that the graphics card does scaling much faster than the TV, and unless you're running a game at 1920x1080 scaling will have to happen.

As for HDMI vs DVI, what shockdude said is pretty much it. As for VGA, you shouldn't be using it unless you're using a CRT monitor for your display or have no other options, as it's an analog standard that results in noticrable display latency when used with digital flat panel monitors and TVs.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 04, 2016, 07:20:37 PM
Hello again,
@Shockdude: so I experimented around with HDMI A LOT today, and sad to say, it isn't working right. The colours look really washed up in Seihou and the PC98 games, even after setting the colours to Full from Limited. They don't look as bad on Touhou 7 and 8, but not as good as with the VGA/DVI adapter. Also for some reason there was a horrible input lag. It got much better when I turned V-Sync off, but then was getting screen tearing. . . I don't know why it's having an issue with the games. My desktop and everything else looks fine :/

I managed to make Seihou fit, although not as full screen. I went in the Nvidia Control Panel -> Adjust desktop size and position, and set it to no scaling. This made my whole output much smaller than what it usually is, but when I went into Seihou it was all fitting in the screen at least. Too small to actually play on though.

Currently I'm hooked up with the VGA to DVI adapter, with V-Sync set to Adaptive, Maximum pre-rendered frames set to 1. It's the best balance I found between having low input lag and the games working properly, and having beautiful colour. Should I try a HDMI to DVI adapter?

Yes you are right, after trying out Touhou 7 and 8, on HDMI they are also cropped. Pressing INFO on the remote showed 640 x 480 @ 60 Hz.
Tried all screen settings, they're all cropped for some reason. There isn't an option for Screen Fit, only 16:9, 4:3, Zoom, and Wide Zoom.

@aUsernameIsFineToo: Don't have the option to disable panel fitting from my TV. I googled it also and couldn't find anything for my model. I tried Seihou in 4:3 also, it doesnt change much from 16:9, just doesn't look as stretched, but the top and bottom are still cut off very bad. Half of Vivit is missing from the bottom when playing on HDMI. I tried scaling on the GPU instead of the display from the Nvidia Control Panel while I was on HDMI, it made CRAZY input lag!! Weirdly enough, I'm getting more input lag from HDMI rather than with the VGA to DVI adapter...

Thank you both for all your help. I really appreciate the effort. I really don't know how all these problems came up :(
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on October 04, 2016, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 04, 2016, 07:20:37 PM
There isn't an option for Screen Fit, only 16:9, 4:3, Zoom, and Wide Zoom.
You'll want to set that to 4:3 when playing Touhou or any other game that runs at a 4:3 aspect ratio.

Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 04, 2016, 07:20:37 PM
Half of Vivit is missing from the bottom when playing on HDMI.
When you're in the Windows desktop is the taskbar (assuming you have it at the top or bottom) also cut off? If so there might be a setting on your TV that needs to be changed.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 05, 2016, 02:37:07 AM
I found the manual for your TV (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200804/20080408193824046_BN68-01412C-00L09-0310.pdf). I now have a much better idea of what we're dealing with, and I know how to fix HDMI once and for all (I hope).

HDMI on computers is a mess, and always has been.
With VGA, the HDTV acts like a computer monitor, and the computer thinks the HDTV is a computer monitor. This makes everything work ok, but at the cost of image quality.
With HDMI, the HDTV thinks the computer is a cable box, and the computer thinks the HDTV...is an HDTV. This makes everything wrong by default.
When both are set up correctly, you will get the best possible quality from that TV.

If you ever feel like giving up and sticking with DVI-to-VGA, that's fine. Whatever works for your setup will honestly be good enough.

If you want to pull through and set up HDMI properly, these are the objectives:

1. Fix the screen resolutions. HDTVs work best when handling their native resolution, which is 1080p in this case. Therefore, force your GPU to always output 1080p to the TV, even when playing lower-resolution games.
2. Fix the TV. The TV is acting like a TV and not a computer monitor. We need to change that. This should also fix the input lag.

You will need to install the latest Nvidia drivers (http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx); it's the only way to make sure the settings are correct.

Connect your computer to HDMI 2. This is the special "PC" port for HDMI on your TV.

Pull up a chair and set your desktop to full 1080p. You can change the resolution to 1366x768 later.

You might not be able to see the entire Windows desktop (start button, etc) due to cropping. This is a good thing, we'll fix that later.

Open the Nvidia Control Panel. Go to "Adjust desktop size and position"
(http://www.geforce.com/Active/en_US/shared/images/articles/27527BetaDesktopControlPanel.png)
Select a scaling mode: Aspect Ratio
Perform scaling on: GPU
Check "Override the scaling mode set by games and programs."
Resolution: 1920x1080
Refresh rate: 60Hz
(http://www.geforce.com/Active/en_US/shared/images/articles/27527BetaHDTVControlPanel.png)
Uncheck "Enable Desktop Resizing".

Apply settings. Use the INFO button, ensure the TV is displaying 1080p @ 60Hz.

Also make sure the PC is outputting Full Range colors.

Open your TV menu. Go down to the "Input" menu --> Edit Name --> HDMI2. Set the input name to "PC". This step is crucial; it should remove cropped screen edges, reduce input lag, and reconfigure the colors.

Back out of the TV menu and visit the Picture settings. Change as many of the following as possible:
Mode: Standard
Backlight: Whatever you want.
Contrast: 100, or as high as you can go while still being able to see Color 254 on this page (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/white.php).
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: 50

Open the "Detailed Settings" if you can. Change as many of the following as possible:
Black Adjust: Dunno. "High" I guess, just make sure you can still see all the black squares on this page and that the background is as black as possible (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php). You might have to readjust the brightness/contrast after this.
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Gamma: 0
Color Space: Native
White Balance: Reset
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off
xvYCC: Off

Please let me know which settings were disabled, if any.

At this point, you can change your desktop resolution back to 1366x768. Yet, when you press the INFO button on your remote; it should say 1920x1080.
Play a Touhou game, it should still say 1920x1080, and it will be in uncropped 4:3.
Everything should now work visually.

Btw unplug any 3.5mm audio cables from the computer and make sure the sound works over HDMI. If it doesn't, that's another silly quirk and an easy tix (in theory).

Edit: Some clarifications.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 05, 2016, 06:34:37 AM
Thank you both again for your replies.

@aUsernameIsFineToo: Even the later Windows games are at 4:3 aspect ratio? Are there any advantages to this over 16:9 like less input lag for example? I actually prefer having the full screen to play on, but then if its affecting my game negatively then it's definitely time for a change to 4:3!
No, when I'm in Windows everything looks normal, the taskbar isn't cut off at all, and the whole screen fits nicely on the desktop! Its only with the games that there's a problem.

@Shockdude: once again thank you so much for all the effort you have put into this. I know you've invested your personal time into this also. I'll definitely try connecting with HDMI again tonight when I get home from work! Who would have guessed that HDMI 2 would be the PC port?? I automatically assumed it was HDMI 1 of course.

I'll post back with my results tonight! :)
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on October 05, 2016, 02:13:07 PM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 05, 2016, 06:34:37 AM
Even the later Windows games are at 4:3 aspect ratio?
Every integer Touhou game runs at a 4:3 aspect ratio. Earlier ones only ran at 640x480, while more recent ones have options of 640x480, 960x720, and 1280x960, all of which are 4:3 resolutions. I'd strongly recommend playing Touhou (and basically viewing any 4:3 content) at a 4:3 aspect ratio since that keeps the image in the correct proportion, but in the end it's up to your own preference and decision.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 05, 2016, 03:35:39 PM
Quote from: aUsernameIsFineToo on October 05, 2016, 02:13:07 PM
Every integer Touhou game runs at a 4:3 aspect ratio. Earlier ones only ran at 640x480, while more recent ones have options of 640x480, 960x720, and 1280x960, all of which are 4:3 resolutions. I'd strongly recommend playing Touhou (and basically viewing any 4:3 content) at a 4:3 aspect ratio since that keeps the image in the correct proportion, but in the end it's up to your own preference and decision.
My personal argument for playing Touhou in the correct 4:3 is that, when stretching the game to 16:9, objects move horizontally faster than they move vertically. Patterns that are supposed to be circles or circular spirals turn into ovals, which makes them harder to read and dodge.
My HDMI settings are set to play Touhou in 4:3 by default. If you think the game is too small when playing in 4:3, move your chair/couch closer to the TV lol.

I made some minor edits to my big previous post btw.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 05, 2016, 06:46:45 PM
Hi again,
well I followed all the steps above, and success! The HDMI worked, sound worked, everything fit into the screen perfectly! All steps covered, even when playing Touhou and pressing INFO on the remote it still stated 1920 x 1080 @ 60 Hz. You are a genius Shockdude! However, there still is a horrible input lag. . . Switched back to the DVI/VGA adapter, and I could feel that the lag is dramatically reduced! I don't get why? Maybe my tv lags more through HDMI than VGA/DVI? Which is weird cause the VGA signal has to be converted so in theory it should cause more of an input lag.

I tried out the 4:3 aspect ratio, it will take some getting used to, but yeah you have a point about circles being ovals. Makes sense. Still think I prefer the screen being full though. . .

Shockdude:
These are the settings that were disabled when in HDMI:
Sharpness
Black Adjust
Dynamic Contrast
Gamma
Flesh Tone
Edge Enhancement
xvYCC

One more thing that's bugging me, Touhou 6 has a 'ghosting effect' and slowdown went up to 1.5% in just the first stage (on Lunatic)! It shouldn't slow down so much right? Touhou 8 then stayed at 0.00% slowdown till the end of stage 1.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 06, 2016, 01:39:36 AM
Good info, thanks. The disabled picture settings and lack of cropping means that your TV is correctly handling HDMI2 as a PC input.

The input lag from analog/digital conversion is something that should be true. In practice, there are many other causes of input lag that can dwarf the analog/digital conversion lag.

I did some quick research, and learned that Nvidia's GPU scaling actually adds input lag. Whoops.

Go back to the Nvidia Control Panel, "Adjust desktop size and position"
Scaling mode: No scaling
Perform scaling on: Display

The INFO should now say your actual resolution - but your HDTV is confirmed to be in PC mode, so things should be ok. Your desktop should be 1366x768, Touhou should be 640x480. You can set 16:9 and 4:3 in your TV's Picture Options.

If "No Scaling" is funky, do "Aspect Ratio" instead.

Speaking of Picture Options:
Color Tone: Warm 2. It's gonna look really red/brown at first, but believe it or not this is the "correct" setting, and your eyes will adjust to it after a while. If you can't get used to it (or if the TV won't let you change it), "Normal" is fine.
Digital NR: Off
DNIe: Off
HDMI Black Level: Flip between "Normal" and "Low" while checking lagom.nl's black level test (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php). Pick the one where the background is black (not gray) and all the squares are visible. Hopefully you picked "Normal." If you picked "Low", or if the background is gray, or if you can't see any of the squares in the first two rows, let me know.
* Color is probably the hardest thing to get right when using a TV as a monitor with HDMI. TVs have different color standards than computers, plus they like to fudge things around.
100Hz Motion Plus: Off
Blue Only: Off

I'm assuming your other Nvidia tweaks (maximum pre-rendered frames = 1, etc) are still applied.

If there's still unacceptable input lag...that means your TV is bad at handling HDMI and there's nothing you can do about it. Switch back to VGA and call it a day.
Note that the Picture settings and options I've recommended also apply to VGA.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 06, 2016, 08:14:11 PM
Well Shockdude, finally some good news!! I applied the new settings you said, and *BAM*, input lag completely vanished! It feels great, characters are super responsive. Now it feels better than with the DVI/VGA adapter! Everything worked well, including Seihou!

In case it helps other users, in Nvidia Control Panel I have V-sync set to 'Adaptive'
Triple Buffering to On
Pre-rendered Frames set to 1
Power Management set to 'Prefer Maximum Performance'
I also had to disable the Nvidia High Definition Audio driver in Device Manager. This was causing part of the input lag. (it was conflicting with my motherboard sound drivers). Felt a huge difference once I disabled and restarted the pc. Of course doing this prevented audio from outputting from the HDMI, so I hooked up some speakers in the 3.5mm audio jack.

Only issues I am facing is some slowdown on certain games, especially Touhou 6. While I really can't feel it, its there on certain Touhous in the results screen. Let's start with the good news:
I stage practiced Touhou 8, Lunatic Stage 4A, slowdown was 0.00%, so that's perfect.
I played Touhou 5 Lunatic until the beginning of stage 4, slowdown was 0.02%, so i think that's good?
I did a Lunatic VS fight in Touhou 3 against Chiyuri and Yumemi, feels awesome, mega responsive!
Seihou feels awesome also, very responsive, no slowdown or stutter at all.

Here's where the trouble starts:
Touhou 5 Extra until Alice using the purple lasers (around half the fight) had a 0.04% slowdown. On my previous laptop, a full Extra 1cc would have 0.00%, (I have screenshots of my previous clears) What gives?
Played Touhou 6 Lunatic Stage 1 till around the middle of stage 2, slowdown was 0.60%! This is worrying because stages 3 - 6 are denser, so it should slowdown more till the end of the game.
Touhou 6 has a terrible ghosting effect which the other games don't have. It's quite distracting.
Any ideas?

Once again thank you so much for all your assistance these past couple of days :) Greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 07, 2016, 03:25:46 AM
Oh sweet, congrats! Low input lag is always awesome, glad to hear it worked!

Just to confirm, are you able to see four rectangles in this image? If so, your color setup is done.
(http://i.imgur.com/sr0pcxh.jpg)

These are my Nvidia Control Panel recommendations. Some are input-lag-related, some are graphical.

Disabling the Nvidia audio driver is a weird one; it shouldn't be conflicting with the Realtek driver, and I've never heard of it causing input lag. That being said your setup sounds fine, especially if you have a dedicated set of speakers.
The Nvidia audio driver may come back; if it continues to be an issue, use a DVI-to-HDMI adapter.

The slowdown is weird, but honestly not something you should really worry about. Anything less than 1% slowdown is good; perfect 0% slowdown is rare.
You're using the VSync patches (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Game_Tools_and_Modifications#Vsync_Patches), right?
Disabling Adaptive VSync may help; try some of the other options. 3D application setting is the safe one. Always on/off is obvious. Fast Sync is an interesting one; it guarantees no input lag and no tearing whatsoever, but it may cause stuttering.

Can you post a screenshot of the Touhou 6 ghosting?

It's been fun writing these posts these past few days. I've actually learned quite a bit about the behavior of Nvidia desktops through this (I have a laptop with an Nvidia card, which is a little different).
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 08, 2016, 10:31:54 PM
Hello again Shockdude,
sorry for the delay in my reply. I tried out the settings you gave me, and I'm sorry to say, they're making the games stutter, especially the PC98 ones :( Touhou 6 was also acting funny with the frame rate skipping from 60.00 to 59.88 every second. I decided to re-formatting my whole pc in case it was a problem with a driver or something, so at least I would have given everything a fresh install. Now after the fresh install, the PC98 games and Seihou are still working fine. Tested Touhou 5 again, on Lunatic till the beginning of stage 5 only had 0.01% slowdown, so that's good. Its from Touhou 6 onwards that there are problems. Do I need to run the Windows games in compatibility mode or something similar?

My current settings in Nvidia Control Panel are everything set to default except:

Maximum pre-rendered frames: 1
Triple Buffering: On

I experimented with Triple Buffering On/Off, it seems that the games work better with Triple Buffering set to On.

I'm not the only one that experienced less input lag from disabling the Nvidia audio drivers: http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/forum/topic/16283668657
As weird as it is, it worked wonders for me! :D

Yes I'm using the Vsync patches except for Touhou 6, its giving me an error when I try launching with it for some reason... am I doing something wrong? I tried both the normal and unicode versions of the Vsync patch. I attached a screenshot.

I attached a screenshot of the ghosting effect in Touhou 6 also.

A new problem came up in Touhou 7 and 8. Occasionally (around every 30 seconds) from the bottom of the screen scrolling vertically till around half the screen a line appears kinda ripping the page, but not the same way that a v-sync tear happens where the image feels cut in two and isn't joined properly. The image is still connected but this kinda 'transparent' line is scrolling through. I tried taking a screenshot of it but it doesn't show up in the screenshot! :/

I'm still plagued by horrible slowdown for thew Windows games (except Touhou 8 ). Touhou 6 till the end of stage 1 is around 0.60%, Touhou 7 Extra till the beginning of the fight with Ran varies from 0.13% (the lowest I've seen it do), going all the way up to 1.30%!! It shouldn't be going up that high in such a short time. Not even my old laptop had slowdown that high, and this new machine is infinitely more powerful. Any ideas? :(
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 08, 2016, 11:07:06 PM
No worries. Everyone's setup is different, do whatever works best with you.
IIRC Triple Buffering doesn't do anything unless you turn on VSync though.

The Nvidia audio driver lag is fascinating, thanks.

That's some nasty ghosting for Touhou 6. What does your config.exe look like?

VSync patch: Your particular setup should be using vpatch_th06_unicode.dll. However, if vpatch_th06_unicode.dll is the only vpatch dll in the folder, it should be working. Not sure what's happening.

Is there any slowdown when you set VSync to "3D application setting?" Ignore tearing, just look at slowdown.
Also, you've put your GPU in high-performance mode, but what about your CPU? Search for "Power Options" and try the "High Performance" mode.
You could also try the DX8 to DX9 converter (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Game_Tools_and_Modifications#DX8_to_DX9_converter), just to see what happens.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 09, 2016, 02:45:33 PM
I have Vsync set to 'Use the 3D application', so I assume it uses Vsync when it thinks is necessary?

No problem! :) I too found it interesting, reason it does this is because it causes a conflict with the motherboard sound.

Some 'good' news, I checked 'Display Minimum Graphics Needed' in the config file, the ghosting effect vanished! But all the information around the screen left also! I attached a screenshot.
I also tried 'Force 60 fps', it did not fix the slowdown issue. 0.70% till the beginning of stage 2 in Touhou 6.
Out of curiosity, what is Pad X Axis and Pad Y Axis in the config file? I use a controller to play (with Xpadder, and key tap time set to 0.01) so wondering if these values affect input lag with a controller.

Yes there is slowdown in both Touhou 6 and 7, with 'Use the 3D Application' :( I tried High Performance Mode, didn't change a thing, I tried the DX8 to DX9 converter, it made Touhou 7 more stuttery for some odd reason. . .
Speaking of stutter, the PC98 games started stuttering again too. . . they were working fine yesterday, I set the settings back to how the were yesterday, and still stuttering. . . I really am confused. . .

I have DIrect X 11, could that be the issue?

I'm also considering the worst case scenario that I have a faulty component. . . any idea what programs to run to make sure everything is working fine? I was reading about stress tests, but I don't think that's what I need, I just need to see that everything is functioning ok. I thought that with those specs this pc would blaze through the Touhou games and allow me to record with no issues like stutter / slowdown etc. :(

Sorry for all the trouble all this has caused. This has been going on for days now, and I really appreciate your efforts.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 10, 2016, 01:13:32 AM
Don't reinstall Windows anymore, it doesn't really help anymore at this point.
Do Windows Update, update everything to the latest version. Also reinstall the latest Nvidia driver. Don't try anything else until everything is up to date.

"Use the 3D Application" means "GPU drivers won't touch or override VSync. Only Touhou decides if VSync is enabled."
If you're using the VSync patch, then VSync should be disabled, and there should be visible tearing as a result. If tearing isn't visible, then you have a misconfig somewhere.

You most likely do not have faulty components. Touhou games are old and honestly pretty janky.

"Display Minimum Graphics" shouldn't be necessary. None of the other config.exe checkboxes should be checked except for the DirectInput one.
Did you not get the VSync patch working with Touhou 6 yet? Imo all bad Touhou 6 behavior should be ignored until vpatch works.

DirectX 11 will not be the issue. If anything, you should be installing DirectX 9 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8109); both DX9 and DX11 can and should coexist.

As an experiment, go into Nvidia Control Panel's and set VSync to "Off". "Off" is a last-resort option that disables VSync in all scenarios. If there is stuttering and slowdown with VSync forced off, then you have a big problem; otherwise it's a fixable misconfiguration.

Last Resort option number 2 is to ignore your GPU completely. Remove your GPU, and connect your motherboard's on-board graphics to your TV and see what happens. Ignore color issues, if any, for now; just see if the games run without slowdown or stuttering.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 10, 2016, 02:38:40 PM
Everything is fully up to date in Windows Update.

Yes, there is screen tearing when I select 'Use the 3D Application'.

I know they are old, but they weren't this janky. I've done side by side comparisons with my laptop hooked up to the tv, it's much smoother outputting from the laptop.

No sorry, haven't managed, I don't know what else to try to get the Vsync patch working on Touhou 6 :(

I installed DirectX 9, didn't make a difference :(

I tried the Vsync Off option again, the slowdown didn't really change, I'm getting a more constant screen tear though (which is worse).

I just tried this: http://www.tweakguides.com/NVFORCE_1.html
Its a tweak guide for the settings for my graphic card. After doing all those settings, and also installing Nvidia Inspector as stated at the end of the guide, and using the settings provided in the guide on Nvidia Inspector, the screen tearing in Touhou 7 vanished! Slowdown is still the same though, and it looks really blurry. Especially the beginning barrage of bullets in the Extra stage.
Touhou 6 using the same settings but Frame Rate Limiter set to Off (in Nvidia Inspector) shot up to 2000 fps in case it's important.

I just tried going back to my DVI/VGA setup in case these problems are occurring only over HDMI, and the games are much much more stuttery now over DVI/VGA connection.

Do I have to physically remove the GPU? Do I uninstall the graphic drivers? What do I unplug? (sorry I'm not very tech savvy). Just release the lock from the graphic card and unplug it from the motherboard? Or also any power cables/wires?
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 10, 2016, 04:57:28 PM
Update: I tried unplugging the graphic card and plugging in the VGA cable to the motherboard, and Windows just won't boot :/ It takes me to BIOS, and even if I select my primary drive (the SSD) to boot from the BIOS Boot Menu, it just restarts and goes back to BIOS. I connected my graphic card again, and it booted fine. . . Tried this more than once, and kept doing the same thing.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 10, 2016, 11:42:00 PM
Update: Setting Vsync to Off in Nvidia Control Panel, and setting a frame cap of 60 fps on Nvidia Inspector's Frame Rate Limiter, and set Preferred Refresh Rate to 'Highest Available' removed the stutter in lots of the games. Screen Tearing left also! :D Didn't change any other settings apart from these, when I altered some other settings the image was getting blurry. Slowdown is still there though. Getting closer! :)

In Touhou 7 I keep getting fluctuating rates from 59.95 to 60.00, which over time is causing a big %of slowdown. Touhou 6 does it also but with 59.88. Touhou 8 seems more stable, but overall slowdown till the end of stage 2 Lunatic was 0.24%.

Touhou 5 seems to be working fine but I'll have to test this more in depth, and try out some of the other PC98 games.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 11, 2016, 02:06:06 AM
Huh, I guess the "framerate limiting" method works. Feels a bit overkill for Touhou, but if it works then w/e.
Unfortunately you've now opened a rabbit hole lol.

What you're experiencing is a specific form of stuttering called "framepacing issues". This is different from traditional "dropped frames" stuttering.
Explanation 1: Your TV outputs 60 frames per second, or one frame per 16.667ms. Your GPU outputs 60 frames per second on average. Frames may not be delivered at the exact 16.667ms intervals that your TV expects - hence, framepacing issues.
Explanation 2: Your TV outputs 59.94 frames per second. Touhou wants to output 60 frames per second, but the GPU needs to output 59.94 frames per second. The timing is off ever so slightly, and Touhou doesn't like it - hence, framepacing issues.

Nvidia's built-in framerate limiter is decent but isn't that good at framepacing. Reset that back to off or whatever the default is.

The best framerate limiter in town is RivaTuner Statistics Server, which comes with MSI Afterburner (http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/msi-afterburner-beta-download.html). Scroll down and download version 4.2.0 Stable/Final (not 4.3.0 Beta). It's designed for AAA PC games but does work with Touhou.
Open RivaTuner. Set the "Global" framerate limit to "60". Leave RivaTuner open and try a Touhou game. Close RivaTuner when you're done.
Note that Touhou 6-9.5 may require setting up that DX8 to DX9 converter in order for RivaTuner to work, and I have no idea if it'll work with PC-98 or Seihou. Easy way to check if RivaTuner's working is to set the framerate limit to something weird, like 28.
If you want, open vpatch.ini and set GameFPS to 70; this guarantees that RivaTuner's frame limiter takes priority.

From my tests, no stuttering was visible, though Touhou's FPS counter did fluctuate a bit between 59.95 and 60.05.

RivaTuner also tends to work well with VSync On. Minimal input lag and zero tearing. This is more useful for AAA PC games than Touhou, though.

If RivaTuner can't fix the stuttering...I dunno.
Is there a proper computer monitor or a different TV that you could test?

Edit: For what it's worth, I went and looked at my Touhou 6 and Touhou 7 replays, all of them had anywhere from 0.1-0.4% slowdown, and I play on a pretty powerful laptop. All the Touhou 8 replays had 0% slowdown though.
If you don't notice any stuttering, I really don't think you should be worrying about it. IIRC one of the Touhou highscore websites accepts replays with up to 5% slowdown.
And remember: when recording and streaming, the slowdown % will be less on your current desktop than on your older laptop :p
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 11, 2016, 01:28:13 PM
Thank you for your explanation about the frame-pacing issues, although I'm not sure how it helps me lol. I still don't know how to solve it :( Btw did you see my previous two posts, specifically the one where I said I took out my graphic card and the pc wouldn't boot into Windows? And that when I tried reverting back to the VGA/DVI adapter it was more stuttery than before? Just pointing these out in case it makes a difference,

I've been testing out Rivatuner for the past 2 hours, I'm getting screen tearing and a higher slowdown than with Nvidia Inspector. Sometimes Rivatuner also 'skips' a frame kinda to catch up. It did this with Vsync On, Off, and Use the 3D application settings. As for Slowdown: Touhou 7 Extra midway through the Chen fight, 0.13 - 0.19% with Nvidia Inspector, 0.32- 0.40% with Rivatuner. I was so pre-occupied with noticing stutter that I wasn't taking notice of input lag. With Nvida Inspector I'm getting quite a noticeable input lag that is making Touhou 7 feel like it doesn't even have a vpatch! :/

The PC98 games are stuttering again. . . I don't understand how I reverted back to my previous settings that they were working fine on and are still stuttering now. . .

Could the stuttering I have be an in general problem with the whole PC rather than with Touhou? Anywhere I could check?

Unfortunately I don't have a proper computer monitor, always had laptops. I'm gonna try connecting the PC to a 4K tv with game mode and pc mode, see if that makes a difference. . .

I never used to record on my laptop, it was too weak, I tried and it made the game crawl. Understandable though, it's only a dual core and has 2 GB RAM. What I meant in my previous post was that if I'm experiencing slowdown now (with no recording programs), let alone when recording how much that will increase! :(

I still would like to thank you again. It's been a long journey, and you've been at my side with daily support. Really, thanks. That's a lot of effort for someone you don't know. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 11, 2016, 05:43:59 PM
Well, I hooked up the pc to a 4k tv in the house, and results are just the same as my hd tv. Nothing at all changed, no difference in slowdown, or stutter.

So, I decided to call a friend over, and he brought his pc monitor, we tried it out, all the stutter left! Replaced by blurring instead, but looks much better than stutter! No difference in slowdown though.

Seeing the stutter vanish from the monitor, i decided to try hooking up my pc with the DVI/VGA adapter again. I did so, and it was very stuttery, worse than with the HDMI cable, but I changed the screen resolution to 1280 x 768, and BAM, the stutter is almost non existent! Not as smooth as the pc monitor, but very close!

I decided to try out Touhou 11, and slowdown stayed at 0.00% on that one :/
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 11, 2016, 05:59:38 PM
Not a problem. I enjoy this sort of tech support, especially when it comes to people playing video games lol.

I'm on mobile so can't answer too much.

Yeah abandon rivatuner, seems like it's not gonna help in your case. Keep it installed though, it's still good for PC gaming in general.

How did you connect your computer to the monitor?

What scaling mode are you using right now, aspect ratio or no scaling? What refresh rate options are available? For both your TV and the monitor, if possible.
Also what resolutions are reported by your TV/the monitor when running Touhou?

In Nvidia Inspector, there should be buttons in the rightmost column to set a setting to default.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 11, 2016, 08:56:03 PM
Thanks haha, greatly appreciated. Would be completely lost otherwise, feel like I'm running out of options.

Thanks for taking the time to reply even though you're out :) Hope you're having a blast ;)

Ok will do :) I dunno if it makes a difference, Rivatuner keeps saying 'failed to connect to update server' every time I open it.

PC to monitor with the same VGA cable that was connected with the TV.

Aspect ratio, refresh rate was 60 Hz, for both the tv and monitor.
Resolutions are 640 x 480 @ 60 Hz

Btw I figured out why it was stuttering when I connected the DVI/VGA cable with the tv first before I dropped it to 1280 x 768. I pressed the INFO button on the remote and and it was saying 640 x 480 @ 75 Hz!! (this was when resolution was set to 1600 x 900). On resolution 1280 x 768, and 1366 x 768 in Touhou it says 640 x 480 @ 60 Hz. Weird that the Hz would change on their own just cause of the resolution huh?

Yeah called 'Apply Changes' right? I press that every time I set the frame rate limiter to 60 fps (or back to Off), but it's not seeming like such a viable option. Its making the games seem like they don't have vpatch, and its VERY noticeable on Touhou 7 :(

I was thinking of installing Windows 10 (with the disc that came with the pc) on a partition on the drive I was planning to use for recording. Thought maybe I'd have better luck trying out the games on Windows 10? I dunno if that sounds stupid, getting desperate here lol.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 11, 2016, 11:07:46 PM
Thanks for the info.

Try connecting your computer to the monitor with DVI/HDMI next time. It's pretty clear that your computer does VGA fine.

Nvidia Inspector: not the apply changes button. Hover your mouse over an option and a gray button to the right will appear, that button will restore that option to default. You still have to apply changes after resetting to default.

Windows 10 is a whole other can of worms that I don't think you should get into just yet.

Edit: At my laptop now.

Does your motherboard's onboard graphics have an HDMI or DVI connector? Try testing that, instead of VGA.
There should be a BIOS option to enable the onboard graphics so that Windows will actually boot.

Attached is a screenshot of the "Restore Defaults" button in Nvidia Inspector.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 12, 2016, 04:27:56 PM
The monitor doesn't have a DVI port, only VGA...

So, I tried connecting the pc to the tv with the VGA cable on the motherboard, it doesn't display an image. I tried the HDMI on the motherboard, it doesn't work either. The DVI port on the motherboard is DVI-D when my adapter is DVI-I so it doesn't fit (it has 4 extra pins). I tried going into the BIOS and scrolled through all the advanced options, doesn't look like there is anything that is disabled that would affect it.

I used Driver Easy to update all my drivers to the latest, and I clicked on Hardware Info. It seems like the Integrated Graphics aren't being detected in the Mainboard section? I took a screenshot of each of the tabs (like CPU, Memory, etc) maybe there is something you spot that isn't how it should be. The Nvidia Gtx 980 under Graphics is showing 2D Desktop for some reason.

Also, on vids I was seeing on youtube, when people go into Manage 3D Settings in Nvidia Control Panel, on the top it gives them a choice between Inetgarted Graphics, or the Graphic Card. I don't have this choice available...

I deleted Nvidia Inspector for now, that reset all settings to default.

Ok we'll dismiss the Windows 10 option for now then.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 12, 2016, 06:40:22 PM
A VGA-only monitor? Dang, that's petty old haha.

The Graphics tab of DriverEasy has a dropdown menu for the GTX 980 and 2D Graphics; do those dropdowns have anything else?

If Windows can only see the GTX 980Ti and not the Intel Graphics, that means the BIOS is hiding it from Windows. Look up your motherboard documentation and check again.

The switching between Integrated/Nvidia graphics is a laptop-only feature iirc. Maybe it's available on desktops, I dunno, but since Windows can't see the integrated graphics then obviously that option won't show up lol.

If you do get integrated graphics working, use the HDMI port.

Deleting Nvidia Inspector won't reset the settings to default...?
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 12, 2016, 07:15:31 PM
Haha yeah quite, but it got the job done for an alternate test :)

Yes there are 4 options: 2D Dekstop, Default, and 3D Applications twice. I attached screen shots of each as they change the values.

Ok I don't mind it, I'm sure my graphic card will be better than the integrated. Was just pointing it out in case it helped find the fault :/

Why would I need to use the integrated when the graphic card is better?

Sorry my mistake. I re-installed it and set it to default again. Should I set Max pre-rendered frames to 1 again?
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 13, 2016, 01:56:21 AM
On your GPU's HDMI, have you tried both Nvidia scaling options, Aspect Ratio & No Scaling? What effects did they have, if any?

Regarding integrated graphics, I want to narrow the cause of the microstutter to either your GPU's HDMI out or to your TV's HDMI in.
Getting your computer to output HDMI through integrated graphics is one way to do that. The other way is to connect your GPU's HDMI to a different TV/monitor.

If all else fails, just use VGA on your TV and call it a day.
Alternatively, install Windows 10 for more tech support fun :p
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 13, 2016, 03:08:58 PM
Yes I tried both. I even tried scaling on the GPU. All this did was add input lag, although there was less screen tearing in general, but still noticeable. Slowdown stayed the same at 0.19% till Chen in Touhou 7 Extra.

I tried connecting my pc to the 4K tv in the house, and also renamed it to PC (I used the correct pc port also, digged it up in the manual, learnt from my previous mistakes haha), it was still stuttery and slowdown didn't change! Still the same percentages! I think it's something in my pc rather than the tvs. When I connected to the monitor with VGA slowdown percentages stayed the same also.

I was connected with the VGA/DVI adapter yesterday all day! So it's definitely not the HDMI :(

I was thinking of installing Windows 7 onto one of the hdds instead of the ssd, maybe the ssd is faulty? I dunno I really feel stuck.
If that fails I could try Windows 10?
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 14, 2016, 12:05:45 AM
So I tried this program called Borderless Gaming. That made the screen tearing disappear but the game looks very pixilated! Also when Pressing the INFO button when Touhou 7 was running, resolution was 1366 x 768 @ 60 Hz as opposed to the usual 640 x 480 @ 60 Hz. Just mentioning it in case it makes a difference. Slowdown was unchanged.

I also tried windowed mode (without Borderless Gaming), and still get screen tearing :/
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 14, 2016, 01:51:25 AM
I seriously wouldn't worry about slowdown percentages if they are less than 1%. The fact that you could get 0% slowdown on your older laptop is cool and all, but extremely few people get 0% slowdown ever.
I'm honestly surprised 0% was possible, given how much Touhou's framerate fluctuates in-game.

Are you able to identify slowdown without looking at a percentage at the end of the game? If you can't, then imo everything is normal.

I'm only concerned if the game has visible microstutters, since that actually has a negative impact on gameplay. It sounds like it doesn't microstutter over VGA, but it does over HDMI with your Samsung TV, which is weird.

Borderless Windowed = Windowed, except stretched to fit your screen. They are otherwise are functionally identical, and shouldn't perform any better than fullscreen. Screen Tearing in Windowed mode is because Touhou disabled the Windows Aero theme; with Windows Aero enabled there is no screen tearing.

In PC games in general, there are three recommended ways to get low input lag without screen tearing.
Option 1: Fullscreen, High framerate (>100FPS), Nvidia FastSync=On. This doesn't apply to Touhou since Touhou is strictly 60FPS.
Option 2: Fullscreen, Nvidia VSync=On, maximum pre-rendered frames=1, (optional but sometimes necessary) RivaTuner framelimit=60.
Option 3: Windowed (or Borderless Windowed Fullscreen), Windows Aero enabled. Framelimit optional.
There are no other ways to get lower input lag with no screen tearing without getting a fancy GSync monitor.

For Touhou, I personally put up with screen tearing to remove that extra frame or two of input lag. For all other PC games, I use Option 2 above.

I just remembered that decreasing maximum pre-rendered frames sometimes causes stutter. Try resetting that to default; see what happens on both VGA and HDMI on your 1080p TV.

Honestly if you have several hours of time to kill, you should install Windows 10. It is the future after all, and aside from needing the DX8 to DX9 converter there shouldn't be any (additional) negative effects on Touhou games at least.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on October 14, 2016, 02:33:45 AM
Quote from: shockdude on October 14, 2016, 01:51:25 AM
aside from needing the DX8 to DX9 converter there shouldn't be any (additional) negative effects on Touhou games at least.
I'm running Windows 10 on my laptop and I didn't need any converter to play PCB, IN, DDC, or even Danmakufu. In fact, all my games worked without a hitch.

Now, that being said, if you can, try to install Windows 10 Enterprise. If you're a student you might be able to get Windows 10 Education, which is the same as Enterprise but with a different name and restrictions on commercial usage (which you're most likely not doing anyway). Trust me, it'll save you a lot of headaches and keep you from throwing your computer out the window. Home and Pro editions are a nightmare to manage with automatic mandatory driver updates that can and will degrade your user experience. Unless your hardware completely supports Windows 10's drivers, meaning your computer came with Windows 10 pre-installed, it's best to install the only version of Windows 10 that lets you pick and choose updates like you can in previous versions of Windows.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 14, 2016, 07:21:49 PM
Believe me it's possible. I attached a screenshot of one of my Touhou 5 Extra clears :)

For Touhou 6 onwards no I cannot identify it myself without the results screen, but for the PC98 games it is very noticeable even while playing. Its like sometimes the stutter really kicks in when there's a mass of bullets at once that are fast (in Touhou 5 for example: Alice's first attack when fighting her at stage 3, also if you keep shooting at Alice's barrier and it reflects those white bullets (those stutter a lot), and most of the blue kunai in stage 5, so the Yumeko fight is very stuttery).

It does microstutter over VGA also. I've been connected with the VGA/DVI adapter 2 days ago and tested like that for a whole day, no difference to stutter. Back to HDMI now.

Ah ok, didn't know about the Windows Aero thing. Thanks.

So, I tried this: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/33641-screen-refresh-rate-custom-nvidia-brand.html
It basically made me set my refresh rate for my tv to 60.001 Hz, and it actually made a difference! Most of the screen tearing is gone! There still is a bit, but MUCH less noticeable! Slowdown in Touhou 6 and 7 decreased by around 0.02% - 0.05%. Minimal, but thought I'd point it out. Stutter is slightly better in the PC98 games but still there as I said above in this post. I also set the pre-rendered frames to default as you said, stutter got a bit better but it didn't make such a big difference unfortunately :( I attached screenshots of my current Nvidia settings. Triple buffering helps in my case, I tested with and without it.

For some reason Rivatuner's framelimiter doesn't do anything for me. No differences whatsoever! :/ When using Nvidia Inspector's frame limiter it removes ALL screen tearing completely, but the input lag it adds is outrageous. Touhou 7 is unplayable it becomes so laggy, and my performance when testing out Touhou 11 really declined also. So the frame limiters aren't really an option.

I wouldn't mind using Windows 10 instead of 7, another laptop I have came with that installed so I'm quite used to it. It just worries me about compatibility for the PC98 games, Seihou, and loads of the Touhou fan games! I wanted this machine to be my main Touhou hub and I could pull off everything from it. Don't want it giving me issues when trying to run some of the fan games. Is there even a functioing Applocale for windows 10? This link worries me: https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/3fnmyf/psa_windows_10_locale/

@aUsernameIsFineToo: Unfortunately the pc came with Windows 10 Home installed on it, and it came with the disc also. Did you ever try out the PC98 games and Seihou?

Thank you both once again for all your help. Made a big step today with that refresh rate 60.001 Hz. Everything feels much better except for the PC98 games (which sucks cause I was playing Touhou 3 when I switched over to this pc and wish to continue it!!!!)
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 15, 2016, 01:38:51 AM
Huh, using custom resolutions to set a custom refresh rate. Forgot that was an option.
I'm assuming you did it right and set it to 640x480 @ 60.001Hz, and not just 1366x768 @ 60.001Hz.
Yeah Touhou will behave much better at 60.001Hz than 59.94Hz. Ideally, you should be able to create a custom resolution that is exactly 60.000Hz.

What are your PC-98 emulator settings? Resolution/refresh rate? Is there an option to enable/disable VSync within the emulator itself (instead of in Nvidia Control Panel)?

Regarding RivaTuner, do you mean you didn't notice a difference, or did you try a 43FPS cap and it didn't cap the game to 43FPS?
I just tested RivaTuner and it works on my end. You don't even need the DX8-to-DX9 converter. Keep it open and it takes effect immediately.
[attach=1]

I'm not sure why the Nvidia frame limiter affects screen tearing or input lag, but w/e. Maybe it silently enables VSync or something.

Windows 10 Home is fine.
AppLocale no longer works on Windows 10, but there are many newer locale programs available such as Locale Emulator.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on October 15, 2016, 01:56:17 AM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 14, 2016, 07:21:49 PM
the pc came with Windows 10 Home installed on it
Then you should be good to go. All the horror stories I've heard involving Home edition have to do with incompatible drivers and older hardware, which doesn't seem to apply to that laptop.

Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 14, 2016, 07:21:49 PM
Did you ever try out the PC98 games and Seihou?
I don't have any of those games, but the PC98 emulator I use to listen to PMD/FMP music works fine in Windows 10. After all, it's just an emulator, the host OS shouldn't have an effect on what runs within it.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 15, 2016, 06:32:35 PM
Well did some more testing today. Touhou 7 Lunatic from the beginning till around the middle of stage 4 gave a 0.06% slowdown which I'm very happy with!!! Why does it give me a 0.17% - 0.19% until Chen in Extra though (which is only around 3 minutes in)? Weird that for a longer period of time the  slowdown was less :/ Touhou 11 stays at a perfect 0.00% slowdown which I love xD The PC98 games are sucking hard, with lots of microstutter.

I created 2 resolutions, and they're both ticked, so I assume it switches between them when on desktop and into a Touhou game? I attached a screenshot.

I'm trying with all 3 emulators. Anex86 and Neko run very bad and stutter much worse than T98. I used to use Anex86 on my old laptop. The other 2 emulators really used to make the game lag and not work well (due to my laptop having low specs I assume). Being able to use T98 now feels like a dream compared to Anex, the music is so much better! I use the settings for the emulators that came with the English Patch Pack. I attached them also for quick reference.

Well no differences except for adding input lag and some slight reductions in screen tearing! Frame limiting isn't helping in my case, while it reduces screen tearing (Nvidia Inspector is working much better for me than Rivatuner at doing this), the input lag is a horrendous trade off, even with the vpatch. It almost feels like the vpatch isn't working when any of these two frame limiters are on :/ I tried Rivatuner on 28 fps and yeah it's definitely capping the game to that, it showed it in the in game counter, and everything was ridiculously laggy.

Best balance between input lag and minimal screen tearing I've found so far was to leave Vsync from the Nvidia Control Panel set to 'Use the 3D Application settings', after doing the custom refresh rate, it's seeming to work much better. In Touhou 11 though there is still a very high amount of screen tearing. I experimented and set Vsync to Fast Sync, and the screen tearing completely left, and the increase in input lag was so minimal (unlike on Touhou 7), that its worth the trade off. Does it make sense to change the settings according to game? I also noticed Seihou becomes very input laggy with Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames set to 'Use the 3D Application setting', but very responsive and no screen tearing at all with Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames set to 1.

Will I have trouble running most of the fan games on Windows 10 though? Remember I don't only want to get the official games working. . . Compatibility for the fan games is important also. Is it even worth switching over now that almost all the games are working well apart from the PC98 ones, and Touhou 6 which still has that horrible ghosting effect? Feels like we got much closer.

@aUsernameIsFineToo: That's awesome, glad to hear I won't be plagued by those driver problems in Windows 10 then if it comes down to installing that. Thanks. Did you ever play any of the fan games on Windows 10 (except for Danmakufu)? Do they work well if so?

Thank you both once again for all your assistance in this. Wouldn't have gotten this far without you. Getting closer to the end! :)
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 16, 2016, 01:53:25 AM
A friend of mine told a buddy of his about my problem with the PC98 games stuttering, and he said that the problem is the PC98 games are too old for my pc, and the CPU can't clock down to the PC98 speeds, that's why stuttering is happening on the PC98 games but the Windows games seem to work fine. Any truth to this?

He also said that to avoid this problem, I could hook up my new pc to my old laptop, play the PC98 games through the old laptop, and record using my new pc. Is this really possible? If so, will the recording be as clear and HD quality as if I was doing everything (playing and recording) from my new pc?
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on October 16, 2016, 05:01:39 AM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 15, 2016, 06:32:35 PM
Did you ever play any of the fan games on Windows 10 (except for Danmakufu)? Do they work well if so?
After what seems like a hardware incompatibility (BSOD when changing speaker volume while DirectSound is active) I've reinstalled Windows 7. So I can't test things further.

Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 16, 2016, 01:53:25 AM
the PC98 games are too old for my pc, and the CPU can't clock down to the PC98 speeds, that's why stuttering is happening on the PC98 games but the Windows games seem to work fine. Any truth to this?
That's actually a common misconception about any kind of emulation. The problem isn't your computer running too fast. The problem you seem to be having is that you've set the emulated PC98 CPU faster than what your computer's physical CPU can handle. The slowdowns and stuttering happen because of that. Try to set the emulated CPU to around 66MHz, which is equivalent to the 80486 used in a real PC98. Use that as a starting point, and slowly increase or decrease the emulation speed until you find one that's fast enough for the emulator and not too fast for your computer.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 16, 2016, 06:21:16 AM
Yeah what your friend said about clock speeds makes no sense at all.
I don't have any hands-on experience with PC-98 games, sorry.
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 16, 2016, 01:53:25 AM
He also said that to avoid this problem, I could hook up my new pc to my old laptop, play the PC98 games through the old laptop, and record using my new pc. Is this really possible? If so, will the recording be as clear and HD quality as if I was doing everything (playing and recording) from my new pc?
This requires buying a capture card to put into your desktop.
The recording quality will be the same.
The gameplay quality may be the same, or otherwise equal to the recording quality (i.e. lower quality)
The input lag will definitely be higher than recording natively on the desktop.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 17, 2016, 06:53:22 PM
@aUsernameIsFineToo: Sorry to hear about your BSOD issue :( I tried messing around with the CPU settings for both the T98 and Neko emulators, and if anything it's coming worse! When I set Clock in T98 from Auto to 66Mhz it got much more stuttery. I tried several different options in Neko, even setting the CPU to 1.99 and changing the multiplier but no different, if anything, worse, whether I increase or decrease the value :( My CPU is an i7-4790, I highly doubt that the PC98 is maxing it out, especially when I'm using the exact same settings I use on my much weaker laptop, and everything works fine on the laptop!

@Shockdude: If it adds input lag then it's not worth it. I'll have to find some other way. Btw, I managed to find the setting in BIOS to use the Integrated Graphics, so I tried them out. Everything was MUCH more stuttery and laggy too. I'm sure the game wasn't running anywhere near 60 fps when I was on integrated. How could it be so laggy for such a non-graphically intense game?

I did some research on stutter around the net, and some suggested to disable Hyperthreading. I tried it but it didn't make a difference. They also said to try disabling core parking which I have yet to try. Just pointing these out maybe it gives you an idea for something else to try?
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 17, 2016, 08:39:05 PM
Was wondering if it would help installing Windows 10 and trying out the PC98 games on that instead? Is it safe to install it as a dual-boot side by side with my Windows 7, so I don't lose all the progress made on that, since all the games are working well apart from the PC-98 ones (and ghosting in Touhou 6)? Or will this result in conflicts with the drivers I have installed on 7 etc, or some other issues?

Do I need to know anything in advance for getting the Touhou games to work on Windows 10?  Maybe some third party programs I need?
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 19, 2016, 04:22:21 AM
I run Touhou on integrated graphics, even Touhou 15. There shouldn't be any dramatic stutter or lag; either you forgot to install the Intel Graphics drivers (https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25978/Intel-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-7-8-1-15-36-), or your TV did something silly like play Touhou at 24Hz.

I don't think hyperthreading and core parking will apply here; you should probably leave them alone.

Dual-booting Windows 10 should be fine, so long as you don't install it on the same hard drive/partition as Windows 7. Hopefully the Windows 10 installer gives you the option to make a new partition, if necessary.
These days it's not strictly necessary to use the DX8-to-DX9 converter in the latest Windows 10 updates. You do get the least input lag with converter + vpatch though.
If you don't want to lose your progress, just back up your save files somewhere.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 19, 2016, 05:35:06 PM
Hmmm, weirdly enough, I tried installing the driver you linked me to, and I get an error message saying 'this computer does not meet the minimum requirements for installing the software'. I tried running it as administrator also but it also gave the same error :/ I know what you mean, my old laptop ran on integrated and never stuttered in the games. Remember I plan on recording with this pc though, I highly doubt a recording program recording at 1080p 60fps won't cause lag if running on integrated. That's what I got the GTX 980 with 6GB of VRAM for :P I read that VRAM is important when recording.

Ok we'll leave them alone for now then.

I was planning on installing it as a separate partition on the same ssd that has Windows 7 on it. Would this be a problem? Since it's an ssd and much faster than a hdd. The other hdd I could install it on is the one I'm planning to record to, but then they say that it's better recording to a separate dedicated drive, so it doesn't make much sense installing it to that one. I read this about dual booting from the same drive, think I'd have any issues?: http://www.howtogeek.com/197647/how-to-dual-boot-windows-10-with-windows-7-or-8/

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above statements. I'm not really experienced at this stuff and just go on from what I research and read from others. Thanks once again for all the time you put into this.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 20, 2016, 01:01:30 AM
oh yeah, the Intel graphics might not install when the Nvidia drivers are still installed. Uninstall the Nvidia drivers first, and remove the GPU from the motherboard just in case.
Also make sure that the Intel graphics are detected by your computer (e.g. using DriverEasy).

The HowToGeek instructions look good. Putting both Windows 7 and Windows 10 on the SSD is a good call.
Just be sure to back up your documents and save files, in case something goes wrong. Copying them to the HDD should be enough. Optionally, remove the HDD when you install Windows 10, again to minimize the chance of something going wrong.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 20, 2016, 07:47:19 PM
The Intel Graphics Driver just won't install. I tried uninstalling the Nvidia drivers, also booted onto Integrated graphics (by changing it in bios), and I get an error saying it's not compatible with this operating system. I am sure I got the 64 bit version. I tried both the exe and the zip from the site you gave me. :/ Yes, the Integrated is now showing in DriverEasy as an unplugged device. . . how is this possible if I booted onto it?? Computers are crazy sometimes.

That's awesome thanks, I'll install Windows 10 this weekend, I'll try tomorrow after work if I get the time. Ok thank you. I will remove the hdd also to avoid chances of losing my stuff in case something goes wrong.

Could it be something to do with the way new Windows handle the emulators instead? I tried out the PC98 games on my other laptop that has Windows 10 (not my old XP one), and I got a slowdown of 0.25% in Touhou 5 till stage 3 Alice, and that mini stutter was still there. That's worse than the results I'm getting on my new pc, and worse than the results from my old XP laptop which is weaker than the new Windows 10 one!
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 21, 2016, 04:20:44 AM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 20, 2016, 07:47:19 PM
The Intel Graphics Driver just won't install. I tried uninstalling the Nvidia drivers, also booted onto Integrated graphics (by changing it in bios), and I get an error saying it's not compatible with this operating system. I am sure I got the 64 bit version. I tried both the exe and the zip from the site you gave me. :/ Yes, the Integrated is now showing in DriverEasy as an unplugged device. . . how is this possible if I booted onto it?? Computers are crazy sometimes.

That's awesome thanks, I'll install Windows 10 this weekend, I'll try tomorrow after work if I get the time. Ok thank you. I will remove the hdd also to avoid chances of losing my stuff in case something goes wrong.

Could it be something to do with the way new Windows handle the emulators instead? I tried out the PC98 games on my other laptop that has Windows 10 (not my old XP one), and I got a slowdown of 0.25% in Touhou 5 till stage 3 Alice, and that mini stutter was still there. That's worse than the results I'm getting on my new pc, and worse than the results from my old XP laptop which is weaker than the new Windows 10 one!
Ok that's weird. You have an i7-4790, which comes with Intel Graphics 4600
Open the start menu, type in "System", and open it. Make sure the System Type actually says "64-bit Operating System."
Also here's a listing of all the available graphics drivers (https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/81496/). Be sure to filter the Operating System to "Windows 7 64-bit" (or 32-bit, if that's the case).

Good luck with the Windows 10 install.

Newer Windows versions handling things differently is certainly plausible. Your laptop, again, was super lucky to consistently get 0% slowdown.
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 22, 2016, 01:55:08 AM
It looks like the problem is solved. Yesterday after I uninstalled the Nvidia drivers to try and install the VGA drivers (although they wouldn't install), I installed the Nvidia drivers again and everything seems to be working fine now :/ Did a whole day testing out loads of the PC98 games that seemed to have stutter and it's fine now :D I don't understand how re-installing the drivers fixed it but everything is working and I can finally continue Touhou 3 :D Now my only worry is that it hopefully won't give me all this hassle again when I come to re-format once the whole pc starts slowing down! I'll try putting that off as long as possible lol.

Thank you both so much for all your assistance in this topic! I'm beyond grateful for all the time you put into this, especially you Shockdude. It's been a long struggle that spanned days, but now thanks to your help it's finally over :D Seriously, thanks, I can't stress how grateful I am!
Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: shockdude on October 22, 2016, 04:09:13 AM
Quote from: Lunatic_Reimu on October 22, 2016, 01:55:08 AM
It looks like the problem is solved. Yesterday after I uninstalled the Nvidia drivers to try and install the VGA drivers (although they wouldn't install), I installed the Nvidia drivers again and everything seems to be working fine now :/ Did a whole day testing out loads of the PC98 games that seemed to have stutter and it's fine now :D I don't understand how re-installing the drivers fixed it but everything is working and I can finally continue Touhou 3 :D Now my only worry is that it hopefully won't give me all this hassle again when I come to re-format once the whole pc starts slowing down! I'll try putting that off as long as possible lol.

Thank you both so much for all your assistance in this topic! I'm beyond grateful for all the time you put into this, especially you Shockdude. It's been a long struggle that spanned days, but now thanks to your help it's finally over :D Seriously, thanks, I can't stress how grateful I am!
of course the driver reinstall fixed everything.

Glad to be of help, and glad to hear it all worked out! Have fun!

Title: Re: Touhou lagging on new pc
Post by: Lunatic_Reimu on October 22, 2016, 03:35:43 PM
It's weird though, cause this is the same driver I already had installed 3 times on this same Windows. Well glad it's working fine now. I'll start experimenting with recording programs soon. OBS is going to be the first one I try cause I hear lots of good things about it.

Thanks again for so much for your time and support ;)