Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: skutieos on August 30, 2009, 02:01:01 AM
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So I really don't need help on anything in particular, but I seem to suck at the game even though I've been playing for quite a while now. I don't know... The only game I can do good in is Imperishable Night, because its a hell of a lot easier than the other games and I can death bomb. I have 1ccd normal and beaten extra stage. On just about every other game, I cannot 1cc normal. Hell, I couldn't even 1cc EASY (yes, that's right, EASY) on UFO. (even after I maxed out on lives at stage 4) I just need some help on improving myself in all ways. I know if I play long enough I will eventually get better, but I need to know what to practice and improve on to better myself faster.
And actually, even though I said nothing in particular, death bombing in other games besides IN? I really really REALLY need help. I waste SOO many bombs. :( And also, dodging well in EosD. (cause of no hitbox) I rely on the hitbox, and without I die a lot more often...
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A good game to start with on Normal would be PCB, I think. The borders you get really help in case you mess up. I'd advise you to try with someone other than Sakuya A, though; although it's easier to a degree since you can spam bombs, it doesn't help you improve your skills as much as the other types since you don't need to aim and can skip everything you have trouble with by way of bombing.
Also, if you're having trouble in EoSD, there's a hitbox patch you can find at the Touhou Wiki. :V
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Basically to deathbomb on anywhere other than IN, you'll have to see yourself going to crash into a bullet or getting trapped, and begin pressing the bomb button as soon as you realise this.
So you can't simply hear that death sound effect, then press bomb by reflex, because the time between the death sound effect and actually dying is really short in any games other than IN.
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The number one tip for Touhou, newb-tested and expert-approved (cut: as evidenced by this topic), is Bomb Moar. Which you already seem to know. If you're coming up against a barrage that you know you'll fail, bomb it. When you get more confidence, restrict your bombing to when you see bullets coming your way and you know you won't be able to get out of it.
I actually don't find the borders in PCB to be that helpful because they always seem to come when I don't need them :( Personally I think EoSD would be better to help you with not wasting bombs, because deathbombing is so difficult to do and the patterns for the most part aren't "tricky" at all (you should know more or less when you're about to get hit).
Memorization is also helpful for each game. It's part of why SA is so difficult - you can't bomb through it very easily. That's just practice there, though.
Last, you can always gripe to us about individual attacks and spells and someone here should be able to help you. ^.^
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The thing with IN is that it's almost all memorization. Compared to other games (on lower difficulties anyway), you don't need to be good at dodging to do well, and the massive deathbomb times develop bad habits.
By the sounds of it, your main problems are improvised dodging and bombing reflex. Because of this, I think you'd probably benefit greatly from logging a good amount of time into PoFV; being almost the polar opposite of IN, dodging is completely reliant on skill(/luck), and you can't deathbomb.
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don't try UFO or SA until you feel confident about dodging and such. SA will screw you over because it's utter clusterfuck, and UFO is clusterfuck+making you want to get the UFOs.
and, well, everyone else has pretty much summed up what i was going to say, so..
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@Sapz: Thank you. As soon as I read "try PCB" I was like "OH BOY SAKUYA A" and then, well yeah.... lol. about hitbox patch: I have tried the hitbox patch before, but I deleted it... am I the only one that considers it cheating?
@Thaws: That's what I noticed, but people still seem to be able to do it... lol.
@u?: Yup, I try to bomb whenever I know I cant do the attack, but I still die quite a bit. After I use 1 bomb on a card, I'm reluctant to use any more, and sometimes I die because of that. I should probably just suck it up and bomb...
speaking of "gripe to us about individual attacks" I always bomb at Icicle Fall on Normal. I have done it, but I am just not consistent enough to go take it on and risk dying.
@Esoterica: I don't understand the gameplay mechanics of pofv, if you (or somebody else) could explain then, that would also be helpful.
@Slaves: so I've noticed. Lol.
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You'll probably want to get someone else to explain the intricacies of PoFV to you; I'm on a PSP right now, and between the awkward typing method and tiny character limit, I'm kind of limited in my ability to help in that regard. :<
In the meantime though, EoSD, PCB, and if you're interested in PC-98, Mystic Square, would probably be the best games for you to practice on for the aforementioned reasons.
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I don't understand the gameplay mechanics of pofv, if you (or somebody else) could explain then, that would also be helpful.
use the Touhou Wiki (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Touhou_Wiki) for any questions you have regarding game mechanics, etc. they've got a crapton of information there.
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I don't understand the gameplay mechanics of pofv, if you (or somebody else) could explain then, that would also be helpful.
use the Touhou Wiki (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Touhou_Wiki) for any questions you have regarding game mechanics, etc. they've got a crapton of information there.
The "Gamplay" section for Pofv on the wiki only explains the obvious basics. I don't know how bombs charge, or how any of that is determined. I know if it says 1, your bomb will do almost nothing, if it says 2, it will make an attack on the other screen, and if its more than 2 it will make an attack on the other screen that is stronger. I'd like to know what to do to get that number to increase. I also want to know why is it that it seams like I lose more than 1 live when I die? am I just crazy? And anything else I should know besides the obvious basics.
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Practice more, memorize stages and watch replays.
That is all.
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The "Gamplay" section for Pofv on the wiki only explains the obvious basics. I don't know how bombs charge, or how any of that is determined. I know if it says 1, your bomb will do almost nothing, if it says 2, it will make an attack on the other screen, and if its more than 2 it will make an attack on the other screen that is stronger. I'd like to know what to do to get that number to increase.
Actually, those concepts are better grasped by playing the game yourself than by getting them explained. I know, that happened to me with PoDD and PoFV as well.
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Bombing in PoFV works on a gauge that goes up to 4. Bombs are charged by holding the shot button, and as you charge a counter will tick, telling you how much power your bomb's going to use.
1 power takes nothing, and is actually a stronger shot, not a bomb.
2 power is a small bomb that sends a pattern to the enemy screen with destructible bullets.
3 power is a variation of 2 power, but with bullets that are only destroyable by bombs.
4 power places a boss version of you on the enemy screen.
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In the meantime though, EoSD, PCB, and if you're interested in PC-98, Mystic Square Lotus Land Story, would probably be the best games for you to practice on for the aforementioned reasons.
Mystic Square is not a good game for newbs tbqh.
I always bomb at Icicle Fall on Normal. I have done it, but I am just not consistent enough to go take it on and risk dying.
You can't let the icicles converge on you in the center. Pick a side and try to dodge through it, and then go back around it to center. Be careful of the odd angles the icicles fall in. The closer you get to Cirno, the faster she fires yellow shots, so etc.
I don't know how bombs charge, or how any of that is determined.
Your spell meter goes up as you destroy enemies, bullets, etc.
At a 10,000 point combo, 30,000 pt.s, and 50,000 pt.s you will automatically launch a boss attack. Or maybe I missed a 0 somewhere in there; you get the idea.
The amount of health you lose when you get hit depends on how much of a "direct hit" you take. I think it's a crackpot system, personally, but take what you can get.
X button (bomb) uses all of your spell gauge to launch an attack. Since it literally takes away all of your power, you want to use this as a last resort.
In the Options menu there should be a way to change your shot type from "slow" to "charge". With Charge you can hold Z for rapid-fire in exchange for always being focused. It won't get you wins against human players, but it's good to learn on.
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Play only StB. It does wonders for your dodging.
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In the meantime though, EoSD, PCB, and if you're interested in PC-98, Mystic Square Lotus Land Story, would probably be the best games for you to practice on for the aforementioned reasons.
Mystic Square is not a good game for newbs tbqh.
Aside from shock factor the first time you fight Yuki or Shinki, I didn't think it was really that bad.
I'd say LLS is by far the easiest 1cc you'll get, though.
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Bullets blending in with the background and almost all of the fights requiring some foreknowledge of what to avoid if you don't want to get a bullet/laser/knife/wall of bullets to the face repeatedly make Mystic Square an unfriendly game for pretty much anyone who doesn't already have coping strategies.
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Bullets blending in with the background and almost all of the fights requiring some foreknowledge of what to avoid if you don't want to get a bullet/laser/knife/wall of bullets to the face repeatedly make Mystic Square an unfriendly game for pretty much anyone who doesn't already have coping strategies.
Another thing I forgot about: bendy lasers.
Yeah, maybe MS is a bad idea after all.
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I always bomb at Icicle Fall on Normal. I have done it, but I am just not consistent enough to go take it on and risk dying.
You can't let the icicles converge on you in the center. Pick a side and try to dodge through it, and then go back around it to center. Be careful of the odd angles the icicles fall in. The closer you get to Cirno, the faster she fires yellow shots, so etc.
You could also stay in the safe zone of Icicle Fall that would normally be there on easy and just tiny dodge the yellow shots.
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I always bomb at Icicle Fall on Normal. I have done it, but I am just not consistent enough to go take it on and risk dying.
You can't let the icicles converge on you in the center. Pick a side and try to dodge through it, and then go back around it to center. Be careful of the odd angles the icicles fall in. The closer you get to Cirno, the faster she fires yellow shots, so etc.
You could also stay in the safe zone of Icicle Fall that would normally be there on easy and just tiny dodge the yellow shots.
That doesn't work. they shoot at a fast rate that pushes you down if you dodge them, and then you will eventually run into the blues.
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That doesn't work. they shoot at a fast rate that pushes you down if you dodge them, and then you will eventually run into the blues.
That holds true, but you don't need to be that high to avoid the converging blue bullets. The correct distance just above that point is perfectly doable against the yellow shots with taps to the left/right. Believe in the gap!
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also Yuka's master spark is like the most unfairest thing ever when I'm playing Marisa
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also Yuka's master spark is like the most unfairest thing ever when I'm playing Marisa
Not really. Yuka's two Master Spark waves are telegraphed pretty clearly, and the attack ends on its own a few seconds after it begins - you don't have to damage Yuka to get out of it.
The unfair part is seeing the blue bullets on top of the WHITER THAN WHITE SCREEN FILLING WALL OF DEATH with much Caps Lock.
^^Yes, I also forgot MS's cheeto lasers. I'm sure there's a way to dodge those and I just don't know what it is, but...
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i find it incredibly hard to move out of the huge range when directly under yuka
maybe i should stop playing marisa then
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Are people colorblind or something? Master Spark in LLS is easy to dodge even on lunatic. Once you get in between the first wave of bullets (which is made easier by LOOKING AT THE BULLETS), it's simple streaming.
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Are people colorblind or something? Master Spark in LLS is easy to dodge even on lunatic. Once you get in between the first wave of bullets (which is made easier by LOOKING AT THE BULLETS), it's simple streaming.
I have no clue. I didn't even die on it the first time I saw it, though it was close since I wasn't expecting it to be as large as it was, and probably would have if I wasn't using Marisa.
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the first wave of bullets (which is made easier by LOOKING AT THE BULLETS)
ITT donut finally reveals his strategy for clearing Lunatic.
Seriously, I remember trying to stream them on your advice before, and failing spectacularly at it.
Edited for more funny and less condescension.
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the first wave of bullets (which is made easier by LOOKING AT THE BULLETS)
ITT donut finally reveals his strategy for clearing Lunatic.
Last time I tried to stream them, I got hit by something that is not a Spark. I just read the bullets as they come.
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Practice will always make you better. Though practicing too hard in too short a time is bad, I found. Give it a rest for a while and you'll go back with better skill. If you've nearly 1cc'd a certain run, try to pinpoint your problem areas. For me it was being too proud knowing "I've done this before!" and not throwing a pre-emptive bomb when things get rough.
But the problem with practicing 1ccs is you can get burnt out extremely easily since a full playthrough takes ~30 minutes, and messing up and having to restart hurts your morale.
I'd recommend StB (2nd game I played). Short and sweet levels, challenging, and it's very addictive. If you can unlock EX then you've def got the skill to 1cc every windows game on normal I'd say.
SA is by far the hardest though so be wary. Use Reimu A and don't take no crap from no youkai.
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If you can unlock StB's EX stages you can probably 1cc Hard on most games.
If you can get past Stage 4 you can probably 1cc Normal.
For me it was being too proud knowing "I've done this before!" and not throwing a pre-emptive bomb when things get rough.
This is why I can 1cc a game the first time and fail the next six times. I feel like I do best with blind runs :(
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If you can unlock StB's EX stages you can probably 1cc Hard on most games.
I've unlocked EX on StB and can only 1cc hard on IN (all teams) and PCB (1 char) :(. I'm a hair away from EoSD and MoF though, i.e dying on final spells. Though taking my own advice and pinpointing problems in the runs would probably do it heh. Guess the skill is there tucked away.
And yes blind runs are awesome. First hard attempt on PCB I 1cc'd it. My first blind lunatic on MoF I got to Aya. I can't get there again lol.
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Can anybody help me 1cc Mountain of Faith on normal? (and no "try MarisaB")
I never know when to bomb, once again without being able to deathbomb I am screwed over a lot. I want to be able to get up to stage 4 without losing any lives, but I always always always make a dumb mistake. Nothing before stage 4 is really that hard, but I always have dumb mistakes... also, which Is the best type to play as? (for reimu) I always liked sealing type because it looks so cool, but I want to use the one that will help me the most.
I guess in the mean time I will do MarisaB just so I can play the extra stage... I want to eventually unlock it with all types anyway.
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Mountain of Faith is full to the brim of places to get clipped by bullets... these 'stupid deaths' actually make up most of the times almost anyone dies in MoF, I think. :V
The best advice I can give for a MoF 1cc attempt is to go through some of the stages in practice, find out which parts you can consistently clear and which parts you can't (this includes silly clipdeaths), and then in the actual run bomb everything you're unconfident about. The "I've beaten this once or twice before... it'd be cool if I beat this card on my 1cc run" thought pattern can and will kill you, so try to stay away from it no matter how tempting it looks. It's always better to be safe and actually survive than to pull a few nice dodges and then die. MoF as a whole is very generous with power so you can afford to bomb quite a lot, which is why it's usually considered one of the easier games in the series.
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Reimu A is the easiest to use though B is a good choice if you're comfortable with stages/bosses. Mari B too if you use the honour system and don't use the bug.
Try to powerbomb i.e bomb when lots of red enemies are on screen to reap back red items and negate the bombing penality, and also clear the screen of bullets. Remember 5 power = free bomb.
In stage 4 there's not much opportunity for that though.. so just bomb to live during the 2 "waterfall" segments which I think are the hardest. You'll likely get to 4 power again by Aya because those bats/crows/whatever at the end drop a fair few power items.
If you get down to 2 power I'd suggest dying instead of bombing. Getting locked at 1 power is a good way to game over :(
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If you get down to 2 power I'd suggest dying instead of bombing. Getting locked at 1 power is a good way to game over :(
Regardless of what power you're at, you lose 3.20 power and drop 3.20 worth of power items that you can pick up again. In other words, whether you're at 2.0 or 1.0 power (or 0.0 or 3.0, for that matter), you might as well keep bombing when you find it necessary, because in any case, you'll still end up back at the same amount of power after dying: going down to 0.0, and back up to 3.20 after you've grabbed all of the items. The only difference is that letting yourself die at 2.0 power means that you die sooner. The only reason you should ever suicide for power is if you're specifically trying to capture spell cards, but survival is your first priority.
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Reimu A is the easiest to use though B is a good choice if you're comfortable with stages/bosses. Mari B too if you use the honour system and don't use the bug.
ReimuA is easiest to use because it trivializes stages, but it also turns Aya, Sanae, and (most importantly) Kanako into drawn-out hatefests. Six more seconds on Kanako's last card is not pleasant.
Because there's no use for piercing in MoF, the only thing that makes MarisaB superior to ReimuB is the bug. I personally think the bug was intentionally left in there to make the shot type remotely useful...
ReimuB is your best choice. If you can learn to use MarisaC, you can clean out the bosses pretty nicely.
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The "I've beaten this once or twice before... it'd be cool if I beat this card on my 1cc run" thought pattern can and will kill you
This is actually just good advice for any Touhou game.
My best advice for MoF is base your entire run around getting up to and through stage 4 with a lot of resources. Stage 5 is fairly simple (unless you're on Lunatic, obviously). Stage 6 can be bomb-spammed because of the amount of power you get. Bomb Kanako's third spellcard because it is complete bs on normal.
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Seems like you've moved on to MoF for the moment, but if you get back to EoSD, perhaps my play through (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ5uVq3GKwY) can give you an idea of how to scrape your way to a 1cc. In the video linked you can go to 4:13 for Icicle Fall. If it seems hard at first, just keep practicing! I felt exactly the same way and thought I'd never be able to do that dodge reliably. Over time it got easier and now it's a routine cap. If you don't finish her off after the first wave of yellow shots, just repeat the dodge a second time.
My youtube profile also has a 1cc with marisaB (my first touhou 1cc ever) which is super sloppy and bomb intensive (and I finish the game with 0 lives, 0 bombs left ^^;;; )... again, something to boost your confidence/give you a "strategy" for an ultra conservative 1cc. Since I take the easy way out when possible and bomb so much, it should be executable without too much hardship ^^;
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Seems like you've moved on to MoF for the moment, but if you get back to EoSD, perhaps my play through (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ5uVq3GKwY) can give you an idea of how to scrape your way to a 1cc. In the video linked you can go to 4:13 for Icicle Fall. If it seems hard at first, just keep practicing! I felt exactly the same way and thought I'd never be able to do that dodge reliably. Over time it got easier and now it's a routine cap. If you don't finish her off after the first wave of yellow shots, just repeat the dodge a second time.
My youtube profile also has a 1cc with marisaB (my first touhou 1cc ever) which is super sloppy and bomb intensive (and I finish the game with 0 lives, 0 bombs left ^^;;; )... again, something to boost your confidence/give you a "strategy" for an ultra conservative 1cc. Since I take the easy way out when possible and bomb so much, it should be executable without too much hardship ^^;
sorry, but your a little late... ;D It was just a few days ago. I used MarisaB and also used many bombs... I still bombed Icicle Fall but it worked out anyway. I think I ended with one life to spair.
I really have no chance at Mountain of Faith, I haven't even got to stage 6. (Except with MarisaB, but yeah...) I never know when to bomb, and I get killed by so many dumb things. I'll do it eventually...
Thanks anyway though.