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Thread 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.0.html)
Thread 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4614.0.html)
Thread 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5049.0.html)
Thread 4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.0.html)
Thread 5 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6744.0.html)
Thread 6 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.0.html)
Thread 7 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9136.0.html)
Thread 8 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,11564.0.html)
Thread 9 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13990.0.html)
Thread 10 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15170.0.html)
Thread 11 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.0.html)
Thread 12 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16042.0.html)
Thread 13 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16978.0.html)
Translation Thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html)
English Wiki
LoT 1 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou)
LoT 2 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2)
MoonJapanese Wiki
LoT 1 (http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/)
LoT 2 (http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2)
LoT 1 Patches and other downloads
Ver 2.04 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/mzdgl54mxmi/thLabyrinth_ver2.04.zip)
Ver 2.06B patch (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DA1DGQZC) Dead link. HALP.
Ver 3.01 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ahccqhixp7d1n9p/thLabyrinth_ver3.01.zip)
English Patch for Ver 3.01 (http://www.mediafire.com/download/71x2aghm3dco808/Labyrinth+of+Touhou+Special+Disk+English+Patch.zip)
Cheat Engine chart (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.msg356800.html#msg356800)
Cheat table for Special Disc on Win XP (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.msg377088.html#msg377088)
Suggested builds (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg589521.html#msg589521)
Offline database (http://www.mediafire.com/download/w5jig4q58hlmy3z/Labyrinth+DataBase.rar)
LoT 2, its Patches, and other downloads
The place to go to buy a legitimate copy of the game. (http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852) The instructions for how to navigate the site in order to buy it is here. (http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc)
Start game with all characters (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.msg1017162.html#msg1017162)
Ver 1.202 (http://firestorage.jp/download/0584ab67e6fae363810686ef8648a4c7e09e4c0a)
Ver 1.203 (http://firestorage.jp/download/7814f97d45779c2c977b514c0db479fae8e926d8)
Image packs
Squidtentacle's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j)
chripy's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/download/pc8dovp81cj8u8z/CharaGraph.rar)
Pandaology's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?pdk5l7dc8vy9z)
Developer's site: http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/ (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/)
Main page : http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm)
I hope that no one minds that I do this now...
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Don't see why this is being made now, the last one hadn't hit the page limit.
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Don't see why this is being made now, the last one hadn't hit the page limit.
I made this because the last thread was less than 50 posts away from 1000, so I figured "It's close enough to the limit, let's make a new one before we hit that...". Besides, I don't see the problem of doing this now, because I don't see why hitting the absolute page limit is necessary, really.
If the mods or anyone can tell me why the thread has to hit the absolute thread limit before starting a new one, then I'll apologize and follow the rule next time the thread is running close to the limit.
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I hate you for doing this because it means I need to set another thread for notifications -shakes fist-
Joking aside, I'm okay with a new thread. I think once my Asura kick on Elsword ends I'll probably pick this game back up and do even more theorycrafting before practicing.
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Thanks, for the vote of confidence, Axel. I really do need one, to be honest. (And no, I'm not taking the "I hate you for blah blah blah" seriously. I'm taking the "I'm okay with a new thread" as your sincere words.)
Back to being on topic for the thread itself, any news on the LoT2 expansion thing, or is that still a mystery?
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Nothing on his blog, at least. Don't know if anyone is checking this twitter.
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As far as I can tell from the twitter (using machine translation so it's entirely possible I missed something), it doesn't seem like he talks much at all about the game outside of when the site's updated. I haven't seen anything in quite a while, at least from what I've gotten.
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I hate you for doing this because it means I need to set another thread for notifications -shakes fist-
Joking aside, I'm okay with a new thread. I think once my Asura kick on Elsword ends I'll probably pick this game back up and do even more theorycrafting before practicing.
That game is just a friend chat for me until wind sneaker gets revamped :V
Anyhow, back on topic, I cant honestly play LoT1 again after playing 2, it feels so slow and something feels off, i dont know how to describe it
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Checking the twitter once in a while, and he talks about everything but the game, so I'm wondering if it's dropped or not, since we haven't had any news in months now. I guess we'll see once Comiket 87 comes around.
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Checking the twitter once in a while, and he talks about everything but the game, so I'm wondering if it's dropped or not, since we haven't had any news in months now. I guess we'll see once Comiket 87 comes around.
No, I think that's par for the course. I don't think he's dropped it.
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So... any recommendations on who to take for the 9F required boss?
I picked Kaguya instead of Mokou at 5F, by the way.
My current party:
Komachi
Satori
Toxicologist Wriggle
Eirin
Kaguya
Iku
Rumia
Okuu
Monk Aya
Minoriko
Meiling
Someone who I forgot
I still have a stone ready, I think, btw.
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So... any recommendations on who to take for the 9F required boss?
I picked Kaguya instead of Mokou at 5F, by the way.
My current party:
Komachi
Satori
Toxicologist Wriggle
Eirin
Kaguya
Iku
Rumia
Okuu
Monk Aya
Minoriko
Meiling
Someone who I forgot
I still have a stone ready, I think, btw.
Oh boy, you're about to fight annoying Tenshi. Ok so...
Kaguya is a good idea to have. She is one of the few people who can do consistent damage to Tenshi despite her not having Silence or Heavy with Swallow's Cowrie Shell. Eirin can help too albeit it isn't as good as Kaguya's mind ignoring ability.
You need people who can inflict heavy or silence on Tenshi. Otherwise, you won't be able to hurt her. Get nature resisted up, and ofc put some money into stats of your main tank and main attacker.
Another thing to note is that Tenshi hates buffs. If you buff yourself, she will use Sword of Hisou on you which is practically an OHKO. However, there is a way around this. You can quickly buff the person of interest, then quickly have them retreat to the back. After Tenshi takes a turn, take them back out. She shouldn't use Sword of Hisou on them. You might wanna test this out first.
And yeah, Tenshi is really annoying.
Your Toxicologist Wriggle is a very good idea. Tenshi doesn't have too much poison resist, but she doesn't have high HP because of her extremely high defenses. So use your poison. But if you're gonna do that, you're gonna need to run a pretty tanky team. Tenshi hits really hard, ya know.
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Another thing to note is that Tenshi hates buffs. If you buff yourself, she will use Sword of Hisou on you which is practically an OHKO. However, there is a way around this. You can quickly buff the person of interest, then quickly have them retreat to the back. After Tenshi takes a turn, take them back out. She shouldn't use Sword of Hisou on them. You might wanna test this out first.
Just to let you know SHE DOES still sometimes attack the buffed person's slot even when you switch out to another person it's rare, but it happens sometimes.
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Another thing to note is that Tenshi hates buffs. If you buff yourself, she will use Sword of Hisou on you which is practically an OHKO. However, there is a way around this. You can quickly buff the person of interest, then quickly have them retreat to the back. After Tenshi takes a turn, take them back out. She shouldn't use Sword of Hisou on them. You might wanna test this out first.
You can kinda cheese 9F. I don't know about other characters, but buff up Youmu, give her Spirit Resistance items or defense items, Regeneration, Meikyo Shisui and just have her do normal attacks to self buff. This way she will self buff and cause Tenshi to always target her with Sword of Hisou. HP Youmu can easily survive 9F Tenshi's Sword of Hisou. If you are worried, also give her Desperation and Monk Class with Body Revitalization.
Don't make the mistake like I did and also buff other characters, because Tenshi will target other characters and they won't survive the Sword of Hisou. That was how my Kaguya died and the fight took a lot longer than it should.
Kaguya can be Sorcerer Class and have the enhanced normal attack and just have her do normal attacks. She hits pretty hard with them.
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Go Yuugi! Use Anomaly!
But seriously, Kaguya is good.
BTW does anyone know if you get anything if you somehow manage to beat 9F golden aura Tenshi and 12F Sword of Hisou? (Basically after Tenshi dies and comes back after some dialogue)
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Go Yuugi! Use Anomaly!
But seriously, Kaguya is good.
BTW does anyone know if you get anything if you somehow manage to beat 9F golden aura Tenshi and 12F Sword of Hisou? (Basically after Tenshi dies and comes back after some dialogue)
I think both fights drops something. One has Cinderforge Sword as a drop, not sure on the other.
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Fight took me only two tries, yay.
Wriggle's poison was strong but utterly unreliable. I think she only landed it twice in each try :/
I also made Yuugi a Monk for this fight which I totally don't regret because without Iron Leaning Mountain I could absolutely not have done this fight.
Edit: Would you suggest to recruit Kanako or Suwako first? Just who would be more practical for the boss fights before you get the other
Edit #2: Scratch that. Practically no boss battles happen on 11F so I guess it isn't worth choosing by who's more useful.
Edit #3: Ended up picking Suwako :V
And her damage is just amazing. I do not regret this at all.
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Suwako can act like Flan if you give her Gambler and deals really great damage that way. Of course not as much but without the drawbacks.
If you have others who can use her +Nature damage passive then you may want to not use the increased damage taken so that you can use that.
Full Moriya-Clan + Yuuka for example can easily melt faces.
Kanako is more of a bulky stay-in mage and does a really good job at that. I like picking her for my party.
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As a new player to LoT2, it's a bit overwhelming with how many ways I have to advance my characters. Is there a guide for how I should prioritize my skill points? (Stats? Skill levels? Passives?) It's pretty overwhelming, even though the game's pretty fun so far!
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One disadvantage to picking Suwako is that you'll have a harder time fighting the mirror on 12th floor... It's ok though. It isn't undoable.
Also nyttyn there is no guide. But if ask what to prioritize for each and whatever character, you can ask.
One thing you must always remember is that level bonus points can always be moved around.
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You can use The Wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2) for any information you may need[/url], or ask us for any assistance you may need.
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As a new player to LoT2, it's a bit overwhelming with how many ways I have to advance my characters. Is there a guide for how I should prioritize my skill points? (Stats? Skill levels? Passives?) It's pretty overwhelming, even though the game's pretty fun so far!
The wiki's character pages can help you decide how to distribute points but honestly, the only thing that's semi permanent are the levels you spend in the Library. Everything else can freely and easily switched around so honestly, I'd just experiment and figure out how I want to play the game.
Like the others, I certainly wouldn't mind giving you advice and what not for each of the characters, if experimentation is not your cup of tea.
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Go Yuugi! Use Anomaly!
But seriously, Kaguya is good.
BTW does anyone know if you get anything if you somehow manage to beat 9F golden aura Tenshi and 12F Sword of Hisou? (Basically after Tenshi dies and comes back after some dialogue)
Tenshi 9F:
(http://i.imgur.com/5CcuKEd.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/lPmdzjS.png)
Ame-no-Murakumo 12F:
(http://i.imgur.com/hphQN8H.png)
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What the heck. Instead of Tenshi being a brick wall it's Remilia and Sakuya.
I always lose key members for killing Remi before Sakuya dies and then I can't keep up with her buffing at all and she just kills my party one by one.
I also put all my level up bonuses that were in MND to DEF. Aaaaargh.
Edit: Turns out my strategy was completely wrong and I have no one but myself to blame :V
Changing party members does some serious wonders.
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What the heck. Instead of Tenshi being a brick wall it's Remilia and Sakuya.
I always lose key members for killing Remi before Sakuya dies and then I can't keep up with her buffing at all and she just kills my party one by one.
I also put all my level up bonuses that were in MND to DEF. Aaaaargh.
Edit: Turns out my strategy was completely wrong and I have no one but myself to blame :V
Changing party members does some serious wonders.
Yeah you really should not be trying to kill Remi first. It's too much of a hassle in the long run. Sakuya can kill the squishy powerful allies with her constant AoE attacks when Remi can only kill one tanky person who could probably survive the hit anywho. Remi's is a lot easier to handle then Sakuya. Not to mention Sakuya has Star level debuff resist while Remi is very weak to it.
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Yeah you really should not be trying to kill Remi first. It's too much of a hassle in the long run. Sakuya can kill the squishy powerful allies with her constant AoE attacks when Remi can only kill one tanky person who could probably survive the hit anywho. Remi's is a lot easier to handle then Sakuya. Not to mention Sakuya has Star level debuff resist while Remi is very weak to it.
I was killing Sakuya first, not Remilia. Might have worded that poorly, whoops.
Also, it kind of sucks that after having to grind for Tenshi you have to level somewhat for RemiSakuya and now for two more bosses...
Edit: HOW THE HELL DO YOU KILL THIS THING. The mirror is so damn unkillable. If Kaguya takes a single hit (which she can because this thing loves to kill Aya so I can't switch Kaguya out fast enough) the fight is almost over because most of my damage is just... gone. I'm really unable to properly switch my allies in and out, what the heck.
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Change how your characters are set up. If Aya is dying too quickly, set her up so that she can take a hit. Aya - Healer or Monk with HP build. But Aya - Healer is pretty cheesy, since Aya is so fast and can actually take hits. Then, put her in slot 3. The mirror should not be able to hurt your slot 1 character at all.
Swap in Kaguya when its safe, attack once or twice, then swap out Kaguya.
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Oh the mirror... I hated that thing. A lot. I died I think 11 times to that thing.
Anyway what I can recommend to you is one thing: Debuffs. Use the Hina. Setup up your main stay ins with at least 50-60 debuff resistance, and just debuff away. Iirc mirror uses magic attacks, so Hina should be fine. Use concentrate if your characters are getting too debuffed. Give her HP/Mnd equipment and physical resistance because magic physical aoe is mean.
This is also that moment when you regret not taking Reisen and Kanako, because mirror is harder if you don't have them. It's still very doable though.
Another character I would recommend using is Suika. Hopefully you'll have Suika at this point. She's pretty expensive, which is annoying.
So yeah, debuffs. Good luck to you.
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Thanks for the help, however, now the Magatama is being an issue too, gah. Somehow I'm not having a trouble of my damage dealers dying but rather my damage being unimpressive :/
Also, sorry for asking for so much help every time I post, haha.
Edit: Great Catastrophe always gets me. Whenever it uses it Reimu never has enough MP to heal my party back up again because the Magatama loves to go crazy on me before it uses that move.
Edit #2: So after giving Kasen and Reimu MP Main Equipment I win the fight.
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Really? :( It just took two freaking equipment items for me to win. That's pitiful.
Oh well, let's see what 12F Tenshi brings to the table.
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12F Tenshi isn't as bad as 10F Tenshi because she's weak to dark this time. However, she LOVES spamming violent motherland. So the same strategy you had before will work now, except cater it more to dark attackers.
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12F Tenshi was one of the easiest bosses so far. Somehow she still used Sword of Hisou on Meiling though, otherwise I would've had a perfect victory. I'll just call it bad luck I suppose, pfft.
In other words, the fire stratum is REALLY cool. What isn't as cool is Yuuka. How the hell do you Yuuka. She either kills me or almost kills me and will kill me in her next turn. Whaaaaat.
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IIRC 12F Tenshi spams violent motherland if she has any debuffs. Could be misremembering, though.
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What isn't as cool is Yuuka. How the hell do you Yuuka. She either kills me or almost kills me and will kill me in her next turn. Whaaaaat.
With Yuuka you need a little luck. Her Reflowering heals for 10%, she can potentially spam that scent-spell that buffs all stats but if she's nice she won't do that too often. She's also more weak to Cold than she is to Fire.
She also still has her Desperation-Phase like in LoT1 where she alternates between Focus and Multitarget Masterspark when she reaches low health.
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IIRC 12F Tenshi spams violent motherland if she has any debuffs. Could be misremembering, though.
Maybe she used to do that, but the last (http://youtu.be/V3rLHbkpYMY) time I fought her, she didn't. Should be able to test that out whenever I decide I want to grind up to beat the Magatama in my third playthrough.
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Maybe she used to do that, but the last time I fought her, she didn't. Should be able to test that out whenever I decide I want to grind up to beat the Magatama in my third playthrough.
Well in that video Tenshi didn't get a single non-scripted turn to do anything, so that explains the lack of violent motherland. Nice strategy though. :)
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Honestly I just steered clear of debuff spells. Rumia murdered her easily enough with careful switching, really.
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Picked Lot 2 recently. I i remember playing demo and it was quite fun. Doing pseudo-hard mode first playthrough.
Progress. Cleared 1F. Squirrel was annoying, but quite easy, Youmu only got 2 attacks and didn't kill anyone before focusing and being owned by Kogasa+Rumia combo with Marisa doing some decent damage as well. Got my first death by 2F FOE. Somehow managed to beat said FOE on my second try at average party level of 6.
Not sure who's going to be in my final party.
And some questions.
Cirno. I guess she's still composite and mainly used for her slow/par procs and is still better as pure attack than mix of attack/magic?
Rumia. Quite like her so far. Is she a good party member? I am not sure, but i remember her to being deal some quite good numbers from the demo.
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I didn't use Rumia much during the maingame, but I picked her up for the postgame stuff and was actually amazed. Her attacks are good, she can pierce defenses with a skill (or ignore them completely with dark side), and her heal is pretty good too. She levels quickly, so she's probably a good choice for any magic up gems you find as well.
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Cirno is pure magic, so use her as such. With her move white album and with the full team ⑨, she can be quite tanky. Use her as a 2nd slot tank with Wriggle being main tank.
Rumia is pretty good. She's not particularly squishy or bulky, but she does good damage. She also has a heal. Rumia's full potential can be brought out in Team ⑨, but she isn't as reliant as Cirno. In terms of Team ⑨ reliant-ness, I would say Cirno needs it the most, with Wriggle needing it the least. Mystia doesn't even really need it either, especially if you make her subclass gambler.
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Cirno is pure magic, so use her as such. With her move white album and with the full team ⑨, she can be quite tanky. Use her as a 2nd slot tank with Wriggle being main tank.
What? No. She's Composite in two of her spells and ATK on Diamond Blizzard Actually, she's ATK on all her spells, just Composite in formulas for two of them. No idea where you got the idea that she's pure MAG...
She probably is better as pure ATK if you're not using her for utility since Diamond Blizzard only scales with ATK.
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Not sure who's going to be in my final party.
I would definitely not worry about that right now. Your main party will most likely change after every third floor considering you'll probably want to adapt to the weaknesses of the enemies in that area. And you'll also notice that you probably personally prefer character x over y. Just play the game and go with the flow, you'll adapt soon enough.
Edit: Yuka's fight is so silly oh my gosh. After a billion tries of dying either to Gensokyo's Reflowering spam or not being able to kill her before Master Spark toasts my party, I have a good start with Suika dealing lots of damage and taking almost none in return.
Then it goes REALLY downhill as she debuffs TWICE in a row and kills Suika. Later on she also buffs, debuffs then uses Gensokyo's Reflowering.
So I was atleast desperate to get to Master Spark, which I ended up doing. I had a few party members left, this time Aya who always died before Yuuka attempted Master Spark, no idea why.
So of course with most of my damage dealers dead (one of the last I had was Nitori), lots of people die. I actually end up with Aya dodging and only Aya and Nitori left.
So then there's an endless cycle of Nitori and Aya concentrating, Aya switching out Nitori before Yuuka sparks.
I end up winning the fight after firing two Super Scope 3Ds. Just because Aya dodged 3 Master Sparks.
Whyyyyyyy. This is so damn silly after all my tries. I mean I totally don't mind because I finally got it over with but come on, LOL.
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What? No. She's Composite in two of her spells and ATK on Diamond Blizzard Actually, she's ATK on all her spells, just Composite in formulas for two of them. No idea where you got the idea that she's pure MAG...
She probably is better as pure ATK if you're not using her for utility since Diamond Blizzard only scales with ATK.
Wait really? I thought she was magic/composite. That doesn't make sense to me at all. Cirno doesn't sound right scaling from attack to me.
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Wait really? I thought she was magic/composite. That doesn't make sense to me at all. Cirno doesn't sound right scaling from attack to me.
If I recall correctly, she was attack+composite in the first game too.
Also I am unbelievably angry. This is the HP of the 15F final boss when my last girl died: http://prntscr.com/562qk9
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Wait really? I thought she was magic/composite. That doesn't make sense to me at all. Cirno doesn't sound right scaling from attack to me.
She is most assuredly attack/composite in the first game. I doubt this changed.
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So....While the plus disk comes out Should i try touhou pocket wars? If so, the first or the second game? (Also, how the heck i english patch the second game, i only got a weird file >.>)
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She is most assuredly attack/composite in the first game. I doubt this changed.
And the fact that Cirno uses such formulas for her spells and can make good use of defensive and speed boosts to her stats means that Transcendent is a excellent subclass for her(sadly, said subclass is the last one that you get in the game, but still...).
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So I was atleast desperate to get to Master Spark, which I ended up doing. I had a few party members left, this time Aya who always died before Yuuka attempted Master Spark, no idea why.
I stopped using Aya, because I feel she is a bit too cheesy, over any of the other characters I have tried.
But by now, you should have 2 or 3 First Aid Kits. Aya is pretty tanky even without a First Aid Kit, since her evasion is nuts. Aya - Healer in Slot 1 or 2 and another tank in Slot 1 or 2 and you should be good to go.
But I haven't faced Yuuka yet, trying to get the BP to face Flandre.
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But I haven't faced Yuuka yet, trying to get the BP to face Flandre.
I actually did Flandre just now. Really, if you aren't overleveled and come prepared, it's a pretty easy fight. Make sure to have people survive Forbidden Fruit (having Reisen on the front line with Wavelength of Insanity soaks up enough damage for your front line to not die) and enough of your nukers survive until she uses Great Catastrophe, then just murder her. Pretty simple really.
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I stopped using Aya, because I feel she is a bit too cheesy, over any of the other characters I have tried.
But by now, you should have 2 or 3 First Aid Kits. Aya is pretty tanky even without a First Aid Kit, since her evasion is nuts. Aya - Healer in Slot 1 or 2 and another tank in Slot 1 or 2 and you should be good to go.
But I haven't faced Yuuka yet, trying to get the BP to face Flandre.
Using Aya in that kind of way is pretty cheesy honestly. Aya isn't that tanky, she has terrible mind albeit she has good HP. You're better off putting her in slot 3 imo.
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Since the english patch is fully out I decided to hurry and finish up LoT1 but I had a question on what most people do with equipment. I'm not very far in the game, I need to fight Cirno but doing some grinding first till I feel ready to wipe the whole floor. But I've been getting a lot of equipment but not sure how to go about equiping my party, should I focus on one stat (EX: Remilia- Power belt x3) or go for a nice balance of Str, Def, and something else like SP recovery?
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I stopped using Aya, because I feel she is a bit too cheesy, over any of the other characters I have tried.
But by now, you should have 2 or 3 First Aid Kits. Aya is pretty tanky even without a First Aid Kit, since her evasion is nuts. Aya - Healer in Slot 1 or 2 and another tank in Slot 1 or 2 and you should be good to go.
But I haven't faced Yuuka yet, trying to get the BP to face Flandre.
Using Aya in that kind of way is pretty cheesy honestly. Aya isn't that tanky, she has terrible mind albeit she has good HP. You're better off putting her in slot 3 imo.
Aya's cheesy due to her evasion, huh? I wonder if Alice would be considered more so due to her Doll Guard skill, which pumps up her evasion to be better than Aya's and that's before you get a Tome to give her the EVA Boost skill.
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Aya's cheesy due to her evasion, huh? I wonder if Alice would be considered more so due to her Doll Guard skill, which pumps up her evasion to be better than Aya's and that's before you get a Tome to give her the EVA Boost skill.
You misinterpreted it Kirin. I was pointing out that putting Aya in the Slot 1/2 as a main/secondary tank is cheesy. Not Aya herself being cheesy, nor evasion being cheesy. It's useful when it's high, and especially useful with characters like Aya or Chen. Chen even gets bonus evasion from Ran's focus, and a lot of it too. But there are moves the bosses use that can never miss, and being hit when you rely solely on evasion will result in insta death and strats ruined. I was just trying to say to Starxsword that using Aya in that sort of way is cheesy, not Aya herself.
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Really, if you aren't overleveled and come prepared, it's a pretty easy fight. Make sure to have people survive Forbidden Fruit (having Reisen on the front line with Wavelength of Insanity soaks up enough damage for your front line to not die) and enough of your nukers survive until she uses Great Catastrophe, then just murder her. Pretty simple really.
I level down to below challenge level when I face these bosses to get more prizes. So far Youmu can survive everything. Except that level 128 boss I accidentally ran into with crazy regen.
Using Aya in that kind of way is pretty cheesy honestly. Aya isn't that tanky, she has terrible mind albeit she has good HP. You're better off putting her in slot 3 imo.
Not too sure if having terrible mind is that much of an issue. Youmu, for example, has no trouble being a slot 1 tank and never really dies. But then, I did give her 20 training manuals and other power ups and at level 65, she has 70 levels to stats, 20 levels to affinity from library.
I also specifically not give Youmu MP, because that is counter productive to using Meikyo Shisui.
Just build Aya in the HP department and you should be fine putting her in slot 1 or 2. The evasion tanking is a nice bonus, but she can survive a big hits from bosses.
Aya's cheesy due to her evasion, huh? I wonder if Alice would be considered more so due to her Doll Guard skill, which pumps up her evasion to be better than Aya's and that's before you get a Tome to give her the EVA Boost skill.
She is cheesy, because of her skill set and speed. She can stay in any battle permanently and speed buff your team automatically. With Healer, she heals and speed buffs your team's speed really fast.
Have her in slot 1 or 2 with pure HP build. Give her 1 Meteor Drive, Arch, Lambda Drive or Star of Elendi, depending on the situation.
You use Guidance on herself. Then, just do normal attacks or put a second Guidance on herself. She should have taken 3 to 4 actions before any character gets their first action. This gives them a nice 24% speed bonus and only goes up from there.
She doesn't work too well with Hina though. Since she will passively buff Hina's speed and you want it in the negatives instead.
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I level down to below challenge level when I face these bosses to get more prizes. So far Youmu can survive everything. Except that level 128 boss I accidentally ran into with crazy regen.
Oops, meant to say underleveled there.
Not too sure if having terrible mind is that much of an issue. Youmu, for example, has no trouble being a slot 1 tank and never really dies. But then, I did give her 20 training manuals and other power ups and at level 65, she has 70 levels to stats, 20 levels to affinity from library.
I also specifically not give Youmu MP, because that is counter productive to using Meikyo Shisui.
Hm, good to know Youmu actually does have a use. In this run I totally neglected her aside from the Komachi boss battle :/
How is the chance to dodge something calculated anyway? At first I thought it was a percentage (lol) but that'd be super silly considering how easy it is to boost Alice or Aya to 100 EVA.
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Just in case anyone is still wondering, the "Out of reach" Items on 9F Extra are
-Midnight Oil Set
-War Mask of the butcher
so you arent really losing out too much from that tiny space, so dont worry people :V
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How is the chance to dodge something calculated anyway? At first I thought it was a percentage (lol) but that'd be super silly considering how easy it is to boost Alice or Aya to 100 EVA.
I suppose it goes like this: Anything has a base accuracy of 100. To that go accuracy boosts from the used attack, equipment etc. and accuracy mali get subtracted.
Also subtracted is the amount of Evasion the target has.
The final number is the hit-percentage.
To me that seems sort of plausible but I have no confirmation.
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Just in case anyone is still wondering, the "Out of reach" Items on 9F Extra are
-Midnight Oil Set
-War Mask of the butcher
so you arent really losing out too much from that tiny space, so dont worry people :V
How did you get it?
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I tested what someone said before,In the data folder find the file called "TD09" thats the floor 9 tile info, I just edited 3 squares in, walked into the zone and picked the items, The # Means a walkable square
Preferably to edit this place,easy to reach by going 8F extra and going upstairs and you just edit 3 squares in to walk (Make a backup copy of the TD09 File before doing this, just in case)
(http://i.imgur.com/IHGAbDa.png)
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Hm, good to know Youmu actually does have a use. In this run I totally neglected her aside from the Komachi boss battle :/
If you just do actions that consume no MP, she makes a good tank. Meikyo Shisui is kind of like a cheap version of all of Byakuren's buff into one. That + Regeneration + Desperation, and it is very tough to kill her.
For example, when I accidentally ran into that level 128 boss, it wasn't that Youmu cannot survive. It was simply that I cannot do enough damage. If I change my setup a little bit, Youmu can tank that boss forever.
I suppose it goes like this: Anything has a base accuracy of 100. To that go accuracy boosts from the used attack, equipment etc. and accuracy mali get subtracted.
Also subtracted is the amount of Evasion the target has.
The final number is the hit-percentage.
I can't imagine them doing a linear equation for Accuracy, since Accuracy, as a percentage, is not linear.
I'm guessing it is similar to how speed is scaled. Scaling less as you reach higher evasion.
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So after extremely cheesing the Three Sacred Orbs (3 levels under the challenge level) with Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana's DTH effect and killing the attack orb first turn... I'm punished with the 19F random encounters being a higher level than me. I'm not sure if I regret my decision or if I don't.
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(http://i.imgur.com/lRVpSr8.png)
This is beautiful
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I need those for my many tanks, you can still get wiped with those low defenses :V
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She's level 175
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Speaking of Renko, I need to ask a few questions about her...
1. How powerful is her Galaxy Stop spell in terms of inflicting ailments on enemies?
2. When it says that Charge causes all allies to lose 33% of their health, does it mean taking 33% of their current HP, or taking the equivalent of 33% of their max HP from their current HP(I do not mean reducing the max HP by 33%)?
3. For that matter, does this HP draining effect affect only Renko's allies, or is Renko herself affected?
4. How viable is the use of Toxicologist for A. the sake of strengthening Galaxy Stop's effect, and B. for Renko in general, since the spells there should have a better damage formula than the one for Galaxy Stop itself and she herself possesses the Maintenance skill, which speaks for itself in terms of effect.
Reason for asking is that I'm writing something on the Touhou wiki as a sort of "advice" on how to best use Renko's abilities...
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Wiki is missing a lot of information on what happens when you level up the skills.
I tested a skill, Prayer of Good Health, so far I think the additional effects are this:
Level 1 - Poison, Terror, post use gauge 3600
Level 2 - Paralysis
Level 3 - ???
Level 4 - Heavy
Level 5 - post use gauge 4800
I'm guessing level 3 heals Silence.
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Speaking of Renko, I need to ask a few questions about her...
1. How powerful is her Galaxy Stop spell in terms of inflicting ailments on enemies?
2. When it says that Charge causes all allies to lose 33% of their health, does it mean taking 33% of their current HP, or taking the equivalent of 33% of their max HP from their current HP(I do not mean reducing the max HP by 33%)?
3. For that matter, does this HP draining effect affect only Renko's allies, or is Renko herself affected?
4. How viable is the use of Toxicologist for A. the sake of strengthening Galaxy Stop's effect, and B. for Renko in general, since the spells there should have a better damage formula than the one for Galaxy Stop itself and she herself possesses the Maintenance skill, which speaks for itself in terms of effect.
Reason for asking is that I'm writing something on the Touhou wiki as a sort of "advice" on how to best use Renko's abilities...
1. It's very powerful, if you give her toxicologist and a Reisen on the front line, she could do a good job of inflicting it on resisted foes.
2. It's 33% of your current HP, I think.
3. It affects everyone on the front line.
4. It's viable on her, though imo I prefer Healer or Enchanter Renko, especially since one of the passives of Enchanter heals allies who get buffed. There's also Strategist as well.
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So after extremely cheesing the Three Sacred Orbs (3 levels under the challenge level) with Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana's DTH effect and killing the attack orb first turn... I'm punished with the 19F random encounters being a higher level than me. I'm not sure if I regret my decision or if I don't.
F19+ has very fast enemies, Post games is even faster. This is the starting point of getting your stats to the same as your level or higher, optimizing your secondary classes, and using a good clearing/search party. I barely used secondary classes until I got to the Orbs.
When I first got to F19, I just skipped most of the fights unless I needed the levels for some bosses, those buggers were annoying fast to deal with.
You can level up very fast when you are closer to the final boss, so no need to waste time with the trash fights unless you really need to.
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Renko's magic is very low even considering Maintenance (as well as that she has no good reason not to be in a tank build) so there's not much point in giving her toxicologist for the sake of damage; and from there, is the small boost from Toxiciologist enough to really make a difference on Galaxy Stop's paralysis? I don't believe the class increases their accuracy. She's best off in a subclass to increase her support power than her ailments. Enchanter as mentioned is great for significantly lowering the HP cost of Charge, along with increasing it's power, but other options are still worthy.
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Sorry if I'm back tracking on games here but I remember someone talking about a save or something about having all the characters on LoT1. I was wondering where I can find this, I'm making a custom charagraph and I need the other cast to test the images. I'd very much appreciate this, I'm just getting to Cirno on my game so I have a long way to go.
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Renko's magic is very low even considering Maintenance (as well as that she has no good reason not to be in a tank build) so there's not much point in giving her toxicologist for the sake of damage; and from there, is the small boost from Toxiciologist enough to really make a difference on Galaxy Stop's paralysis? I don't believe the class increases their accuracy. She's best off in a subclass to increase her support power than her ailments. Enchanter as mentioned is great for significantly lowering the HP cost of Charge, along with increasing it's power, but other options are still worthy.
So, Toxicologist is not a viable subclass due to low MAG in spite of both Maintenance and her fast leveling rate? How odd. By that logic, she shouldn't bother with Healer either, since her ATT stat grows at the same rate as her MAG stat, unless the two together work out well enough with the healing spell on that subclass to make it worthwhile. In fact, any subclass that would make good use of either ATT or MAG stats for their spells would be pointless on Renko for that very reason.
And although Enchanter is an obvious choice for her due to the skills it has, I do wonder about a few of the other options that she has for subclasses(Magician, Pharmacologist, Diva)...
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Sorry if I'm back tracking on games here but I remember someone talking about a save or something about having all the characters on LoT1. I was wondering where I can find this, I'm making a custom charagraph and I need the other cast to test the images. I'd very much appreciate this, I'm just getting to Cirno on my game so I have a long way to go.
I figured the easiest way would be to just upload my own save with all the characters. Here it is. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69830990/Stuffs/save1.rar)
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I figured the easiest way would be to just upload my own save with all the characters. Here it is. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69830990/Stuffs/save1.rar)
Thank you! You have no idea how much this helps!
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So, Toxicologist is not a viable subclass due to low MAG in spite of both Maintenance and her fast leveling rate? How odd. By that logic, she shouldn't bother with Healer either, since her ATT stat grows at the same rate as her MAG stat, unless the two together work out well enough with the healing spell on that subclass to make it worthwhile. In fact, any subclass that would make good use of either ATT or MAG stats for their spells would be pointless on Renko for that very reason.
And although Enchanter is an obvious choice for her due to the skills it has, I do wonder about a few of the other options that she has for subclasses(Magician, Pharmacologist, Diva)...
You honestly don't need to be an offensive character to make good use of Toxicologist. Just look at Wriggle. And you don't need that much ATK/MAG to be able to make good use of the heals on Renko. It still heals for a good amount despite her low magic (If you saw my picture I get 10k MAG with 3x Grand Master Titles) I did some heals and it's good enough to heal for a good amount. There's also the fact that Renko is very fast with maintenance, so healer being bad on her wouldn't make sense. Healer is good on Aya because she's so fast, and Renko goes super fast too. That speed also helps with Toxicologist, you can move fast and do your thing.
Imo, Enchanter is still the best class for her though.
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Wriggle only really uses toxicologist because her poison infliction is her actual damage and there's not really anything else going for her but Team 9. Her spell that gets stronger with inflicted Poison would only be worth a use with a big team 9 boost, so for the most part, inflicting poison is the only job she has, and outside of Team 9 uses again there's not much reason to set her up for doing much else than being decently bulky. If you aren't having Team 9 active a lot than she isn't bulky enough to really be more than an offtank either, so setting her up for support is meh, even if she's got Poison Touch to synergize.
Wriggle's probably the only person I'd consider putting toxicologist on outside of just expanding Marisa's elemental options with a side of Sheer Force synergy. I never tested how strong the spells are but it'd probably be half-okay at least. It seems like a pretty meh subclass to me. Maybe someone who self-inflicts ailments would like Toxic Conversion? It's counterpart hexer has more relevance since it's much more worth using in tandem with Sheer Force (even if your choices of 'tanky' are Kogasa, Utsuho, and MND-Marisa; Kogasa has some tank synergy and pretty nice def though) and for Hina. Maybe it'd be worthwhile for Reisen to get a lil' boost but she's already got a lot of nice things to expand upon in other areas.
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I did some testing on Yuyuko's enemy delay skills and it seems like it delays differently for different enemies. At least Ghastly Dream seems to delay differently. Ghostly Dream's Butterfly seems to delay fairly consistently.
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I did some testing on Yuyuko's enemy delay skills and it seems like it delays differently for different enemies. At least Ghastly Dream seems to delay differently. Ghostly Dream's Butterfly seems to delay fairly consistently.
Beyond the nerf for bosses?
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Is there a way to edit Akyuu's portrait in the charagraph for LoT1 or do you have to do it another way since she's a NPC of sorts?
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Beyond the nerf for bosses?
Don't know, haven't played previous versions.
I was using Ghastly Dream and I noticed the enemy counter was being set to different numbers for different enemies. So, I decided to test it.
I was using Yuyuko - Monk, and noticed this when she has Fast Dash.
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Don't know, haven't played previous versions.
No, I mean, her spells reduce the ATP by a smaller amount for bosses. Always have. Were you just noticing the difference on bosses vs regular enemies? Because that's expected and known.
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Is there a way to remove someone's subclass? I can't think of any. I don't exactly need it but it'd be good to know.
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Perform a standard character reset at the library.
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When you preform the skill reset, you DO NOT have to use a tomb of reincarnation. Remember this.
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No, I mean, her spells reduce the ATP by a smaller amount for bosses. Always have. Were you just noticing the difference on bosses vs regular enemies? Because that's expected and known.
No, regular enemy compared with other regular enemies. It is only Ghastly Dream that varies in delay power depending on what regular enemies you face. Ghostly Dream Butterfly does not seem to vary, at least I have not noticed it.
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Hey everyone, my game seems to have had a glitch just after I finished off the final boss. According to the wiki I should have gotten a nice item from it (the last sub-equip on page five), but it's not there. It also didn't drop any stat gems, and I'm not sure whether that's supposed to happen the first time you beat it or not. The enhanced bosses also don't seem to have appeared, they aren't showing up on the minimap like other bosses do in revealed areas. I'm guessing the game didn't correctly register that I've beaten him, although I am able to pass through the rocks that require
"the Power of the Divine Sword"
to remove and achievement 94 is unlocked. Does anyone have any idea how to fix this?
Thanks in advance!
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The one that drops that awesome item is the postgame final boss.
The enhanced bosses appear after you beat the boss rush somewhere around postgame 20F. If I remember correctly.
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Ah. I guess I'll need to grind for battle points and finish recruiting then. Well, thanks for the help!
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Ah. I guess I'll need to grind for battle points and finish recruiting then. Well, thanks for the help!
You can already fight the normal Boss rush and that will unlock the enhanced bosses when you finish it.
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Hey everyone, my game seems to have had a glitch just after I finished off the final boss. According to the wiki I should have gotten a nice item from it (the last sub-equip on page five), but it's not there. It also didn't drop any stat gems, and I'm not sure whether that's supposed to happen the first time you beat it or not. The enhanced bosses also don't seem to have appeared, they aren't showing up on the minimap like other bosses do in revealed areas. I'm guessing the game didn't correctly register that I've beaten him, although I am able to pass through the rocks that require "the Power of the Divine Sword"
to remove and achievement 94 is unlocked. Does anyone have any idea how to fix this?
Thanks in advance!
The last item on Page 5 is from the Enhanced Last Boss, and to fight Enhanced bosses you have to beat the boss rush which is to the upper right side of the last boss in the depths. There was a stone blocking the path that you could not pass before, you should now be able too pass it now. You might need to recruit more characters if you still can't pass.
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Does anyone know how many achievements you need to get the item behind the rock on 20F east? I can see the 8 but the number is cut off.
Also after having fully explored 19F and 20F so far I have do grind billions of levels... gonna be very exciting.
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Also after having fully explored 19F and 20F so far I have do grind billions of levels... gonna be very exciting.
Yay my favorite part about RPGs, I like grinding but if there is a way to speed it up with skill or something I'd prefer to do that.
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Does anyone know how many achievements you need to get the item behind the rock on 20F east? I can see the 8 but the number is cut off.
Also after having fully explored 19F and 20F so far I have do grind billions of levels... gonna be very exciting.
If you are in the depths of floor 20, it goes very fast, and you can level there faster than most of the post game too.
Enemies there are easier than on the rest of 20 and 19, at least that is what I think.
Not sure why they made it like that, it is the opposite of LoT1, post game was easier than that last main floor for a while.
Does anyone know what changes in the Tree after you beat the Enhanced Boss rush?
I saw a dialog open afters saying something happened, but I haven't found it yet...
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Sadly I don't have access to the depths and have to settle for the annoying areas instead.
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Sadly I don't have access to the depths and have to settle for the annoying areas instead.
What level are you currently? If you are around mid 80s, you should be good for now until you get to the depths.
I started having an exploration team, pretty much Aya with lots of TP in order to run and fight reduction skills from other characters, and a leveling team to make things easier.
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My average level is 82. I kind of wanted to go beyond that because the challenge levels for the upcoming bosses are 87 and 88.
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You honestly don't need to be an offensive character to make good use of Toxicologist. Just look at Wriggle. And you don't need that much ATK/MAG to be able to make good use of the heals on Renko. It still heals for a good amount despite her low magic (If you saw my picture I get 10k MAG with 3x Grand Master Titles) I did some heals and it's good enough to heal for a good amount. There's also the fact that Renko is very fast with maintenance, so healer being bad on her wouldn't make sense. Healer is good on Aya because she's so fast, and Renko goes super fast too. That speed also helps with Toxicologist, you can move fast and do your thing.
Imo, Enchanter is still the best class for her though.
That's why I said "by that logic", ZXNova. If being fast helps in terms of being a Healer, then you may have a solid point there. Also, I'll presume that either your main equip boosted your magic to the way that it is or that you spent some levels in her MAG stat to do so, because her ATK and MAG growth are equal last time I checked.
Wriggle only really uses toxicologist because her poison infliction is her actual damage and there's not really anything else going for her but Team 9. Her spell that gets stronger with inflicted Poison would only be worth a use with a big team 9 boost, so for the most part, inflicting poison is the only job she has, and outside of Team 9 uses again there's not much reason to set her up for doing much else than being decently bulky. If you aren't having Team 9 active a lot than she isn't bulky enough to really be more than an offtank either, so setting her up for support is meh, even if she's got Poison Touch to synergize.
Wriggle's probably the only person I'd consider putting toxicologist on outside of just expanding Marisa's elemental options with a side of Sheer Force synergy. I never tested how strong the spells are but it'd probably be half-okay at least. It seems like a pretty meh subclass to me. Maybe someone who self-inflicts ailments would like Toxic Conversion? It's counterpart hexer has more relevance since it's much more worth using in tandem with Sheer Force (even if your choices of 'tanky' are Kogasa, Utsuho, and MND-Marisa; Kogasa has some tank synergy and pretty nice def though) and for Hina. Maybe it'd be worthwhile for Reisen to get a lil' boost but she's already got a lot of nice things to expand upon in other areas.
Well, I can easily see who can make good use of it, if it's okay for me to say it...
1. Yuuka. A sturdy mage with Extra Attack means that the potential to cause a heavy, if somewhat unreliable, dose of ailment inflicting is present, while Encounter with a Formidable Foe allows her to power up well while doing so, depending on the damage formula on said spells. On top of that, she has her "Beauty of Nature" spell card to make said ailments last longer on foes once they do stick, so being able to inflict them herself makes it all the more useful.
Speaking of people with Extra Attack...
2. Orin. As a fast composite attacker who can make good use of Extra Attack herself, Orin can use said spells for the same reason: possible heavy dose of status affliction. However, she can also use the boost for her Cat's Walk, as inflicting Shock can be useful in the right situation. I think that I remember that she has another spell that inflicts status ailments, but I can't seem to remember which one it was. However, being fast will also allow her to not mind the 50% post time gauge much, while being a composite user means that she can at least have a better chance of dealing damage with said spells than other speedsters sans Marisa and Renko(although I would note that the main purpose with these spells for Orin is to deal status ailments, not deal damage) while having better defenses than the former and having her far sooner than the latter.
3. Yuyuko. A mage with the highest Death inflicting spells in the entire game, boosting said power can only be useful to her. The first three spells of the subclass can also increase her elemental coverage past SPI and DRK as well, and unless I'm mistaken, the subclass's learnable skill for resisting all status ailments does stack with Hakugyokurou's Mistress for resisting Instant Death, which helps in the right situation.
4. Alice. The reason for her to take this class is mainly for boosting the strength of her Tripwire spell, which is already strong on it's own(unless someone can tell me otherwise, I'll presume that the boost to inflicting status ailments from the Toxicologist is like the boost to increasing buffs from Enchanter: the stronger the effect is to begin with, the more potent the percentage based boost becomes), leading to more chances to use Final Blow to help in her dealing damage. Also, unless I'm mistaken, Alice has Fire, Mystic, and Physical elemental attacks on her own, so adding the subclass's spells gives her access to seven out of eight elements in the game(Seven Colored Puppeteer, indeed), so there's that.
5. Reisen, as you yourself had said. Her Intense Vertigo already makes it easier to deal status ailment for the spells that she has, and she has People of the Moon to remove half of the defenses that would prevent you from dealing damage in the first place. Like Alice, she has Final Blow(unless I'm mistaken) to increase how much damage she can do, and the subclass's spells being added to her own gives her the ability to inflict every status ailment in the game, which works out very well for her due to her skills and the subclass's skills having a whole lot of synergy together. Granted, she can also use Hexer to power up the effect of her debuffing attack spells(Discarder comes to mind) and I would not be surprised if many people simply went with that, but Toxicologist powers up the effect of some of her spells too, so it's far from a bad choice.
6. Satori. As she can use any spell that anyone else on the frontline can use, Satori can use the boost from this subclass for the various spells that she can gain access to. The spells from the subclass act also act as a back up set of spells that she can have regardless of the lineup, all of which cost the same as her silence inflicting MYS spell(which can also benefit from said boost). On a side note, it already has been said that MAG based Satori can use cards from Suika and Komachi to melt faces, and the spell gained from the latter(Narrow Confines of Avici) benefits from the ailment inflicting boost, since the original user would use the same spell for exactly that or debuffs(which Hexer helps in).
I will state that I may be overestimating the boost from Toxicologist and the value of the elemental coverage that it gives(it's the only subclass that gives a CLD element spell) by a lot, but then, that's why I bring up stuff like this with you guys in the first place. Discussion and all that.
I hope that I wasn't being rude in anything that I was saying...
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Yuyuko. A mage with the highest Death inflicting spells in the entire game, boosting said power can only be useful to her.
The question would be would boosting the power of the effect be any use for Instant Death? Death is simply death, boosting the power of that effect should do nothing, unless I am mistaken.
As far as the description for one of Toxicologist's skills, it says it boosts the effect's power, not the infliction chance. So, I don't think the infliction rate is any higher.
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The question would be would boosting the power of the effect be any use for Instant Death? Death is simply death, boosting the power of that effect should do nothing, unless I am mistaken.
As far as the description for one of Toxicologist's skills, it says it boosts the effect's power, not the infliction chance. So, I don't think the infliction rate is any higher.
I have a Level 5 Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana Toxicologist Yuyuko, and she seems to be yielding better results in inflicting instant death than without Toxicologist, so well that she can absolutely reliably clear random encounters. Which is amazing. I really like Yuyuko in this game!
Also. Level 90 average level. And then... there's a level 101 Chen.
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Dood, Chen levels up really ridonkulously fast. She's like a Prinny. Although she's stronger than one, and won't explode when you throw her. But she does go "Honk!".
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Hello! I was playing thru LOT 2 and, will looking thru the wiki, noticed tha I missed the chain of events that unlocked several characters. Most notably, it was the event that would give me the option to unlock either Kaguya or Mokou. I back tracked to the events and everything went smoothly. That is, until I got wriggle and went to fight Mokou. I already almost completed 4F entirely, so I think that may be the reason I can't unlock her. An I just locked out of her event now?
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Yeah, it's that one quality I love about chen. Levels like a maniac. It's amusing to watch.
Also, fighting the first boss on 20F with lower challenge level: Two party members left
Fighting the other one with higher challenge level: No one dies
Well then.
Depths area looks really interesting too... I'm so close to the end I can feel it.
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I have a Level 5 Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana Toxicologist Yuyuko, and she seems to be yielding better results in inflicting instant death than without Toxicologist, so well that she can absolutely reliably clear random encounters. Which is amazing. I really like Yuyuko in this game!
I haven't tested, so I wouldn't know and it is very difficult to test something like this.
She triggers instant death very often for me. My Yuyuko is Monk, since I like the Fast Dash and +4 to all stats buff. Often times, she would clear regular enemies before they take their action. She is using some of the best items I found though, Star of Elendi, Astral Dominae, and Lilium's Panties. For reference, I am currently on floor 18.
EDIT:
Also, for some odd reason my Komachi got instant death by Eiki. I had no idea what happened. When Eiki use concentrate, I guessed that she was going to use Last Judgement, like in LoT1, so I put Komachi on slot one to tank it. Somehow Komachi got hit by instant death and died. I didn't even know that was possible.
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I haven't tested, so I wouldn't know and it is very difficult to test something like this.
She triggers instant death very often for me. My Yuyuko is Monk, since I like the Fast Dash and +4 to all stats buff. Often times, she would clear regular enemies before they take their action. She is using some of the best items I found though, Star of Elendi, Astral Dominae, and Lilium's Panties. For reference, I am currently on floor 18.
EDIT:
Also, for some odd reason my Komachi got instant death by Eiki. I had no idea what happened. When Eiki use concentrate, I guessed that she was going to use Last Judgement, like in LoT1, so I put Komachi on slot one to tank it. Somehow Komachi got hit by instant death and died. I didn't even know that was possible.
Komachi has the highest death resistance in the game I thought. If her Last Judgement didn't killed her, it might be a bug.
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How to use Image pack for Game ?
http://www.mediafire.com/?pdk5l7dc8vy9z
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Komachi has the highest death resistance in the game I thought. If her Last Judgement didn't killed her, it might be a bug.
I've had that happen to me, too. The spell Eiki used was called Spirit Decomposition and it outright DTH'd Komachi. Know what I think? It might not be a bug, but more of a joke from the developer. Being Komachi's master, Eiki could have somewhat of a "killswitch" for her. Guess the game motivates you not to use her here.
There are likely a lot more encounters where you have servants of the master while fighting her, e.g. Yukari. It would be cheap if she could just knock out Ran or Chen on a whim (though Chen might just die from whatever she uses anyway). But here, I find it ok.
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Komachi has the highest death resistance in the game I thought. If her Last Judgement didn't killed her, it might be a bug.
Yuyuko has the highest I think. But yeah, like the poster above me mentioned. I don't think it was Last Judgement, since I saw DTH effect and I don't believe Last Judgement does that.
The spell Eiki used was called Spirit Decomposition and it outright DTH'd Komachi.
I see, I didn't catch the spell when it was casted. I just noticed Komachi died from DTH effect, which I thought was impossible.
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I just started this game after seeing it a few times on the internet and it getting a translation. I'm enjoying it so far but I have no idea what to do about level up bonuses and leveling up stats. I saw on the wiki the growth ratings but I'm unsure on where to put points when it comes to HP, Mind, Defense, and with composite characters. Is there a general formula for stats I should follow like for every 3 points into offensive stat, I should place 1 into HP and 1 into a defensive stat? Should I bother with speed?
For example, I see Marisa has A in Magic so that an obvious place to put stats but should I bother put points into her HP and Defense if the growth is low or just focus on Mind? She also has S in Speed so should I toss a couple points in there as well?
I'm still pretty new and I'm only on the 3rd floor but I like a good dungeon crawler. I quickly skimmed the a couple threads but I didn't want to get spoiled on stuff so hopefully this wasn't already said before.
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Last Judgement does not DTH (and is made totally arbitrary by Mokou's resurrection). I'm pretty sure Spirit Composition always inflicts instant DTH, no matter what. There's an enemy on 19(?)/20F that uses it and it doesn't deal damage, just DTH people. I'm not sure if it ever DTH'd Yuyuko.
Also, if you feel like completely breaking the Eiki fight, all you need is Buffs, Defense-bypassing attackers (for when she starts to concentrate), Mokou with Resurrection and some TP, and some good attackers for her first Phase. The only real danger really is that first phase because she can use actually dangerous attacks.
Anyway, Depths are awesome. 10 minutes in a single dungeon dive and I already got like, 2-3 levels for everyone. Amazing.
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Anyway, Depths are awesome. 10 minutes in a single dungeon dive and I already got like, 2-3 levels for everyone. Amazing.
20F will get you more with less of a hassle :V
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I'm no mod or anything but I think for future reference, you could just post in the current LoT thread (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17586.0.html) for assistance and such.
No you haven't locked yourself out of getting her. You only just missed an event is all. I'm guessing you didn't see the Reisen event on Floor 3, so I advise checking there. Making sure Eirin's marker on Floor 2 is gone is also a good idea as well.
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I just started this game after seeing it a few times on the internet and it getting a translation. I'm enjoying it so far but I have no idea what to do about level up bonuses and leveling up stats. I saw on the wiki the growth ratings but I'm unsure on where to put points when it comes to HP, Mind, Defense, and with composite characters. Is there a general formula for stats I should follow like for every 3 points into offensive stat, I should place 1 into HP and 1 into a defensive stat? Should I bother with speed?
For example, I see Marisa has A in Magic so that an obvious place to put stats but should I bother put points into her HP and Defense if the growth is low or just focus on Mind? She also has S in Speed so should I toss a couple points in there as well?
I'm still pretty new and I'm only on the 3rd floor but I like a good dungeon crawler. I quickly skimmed the a couple threads but I didn't want to get spoiled on stuff so hopefully this wasn't already said before.
For the leveling points, I put them into the characters main stat. For attackers that would be ATK or MAG, Tanks Health, DEF, or MND, then special use I would put it in Speed.
This part is much more straight forward than the money part since you can reallocate these for free and experiment.
For the main game, try to keep a character's main offensive stats and speed at least half of their level with money. For Tanks and bulkier characters you should do the same for their health and main defensive stats as well. Speed is great for most characters, so I leveled that as well. Anything else is really up to you, though by the time you get to floor 12 I would start investing in some elemental resistances as well.
When you get to floor 17 and higher you will probably have a good idea what characters you will want to be using most of the time, and you could start leveling your stats to higher amounts.
For the post game you will want your stats to be at least the same as the characters level, if not more, but that is a while away.
I'm no mod or anything but I think for future reference, you could just post in the current LoT thread (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17586.0.html) for assistance and such.
No you haven't locked yourself out of getting her. You only just missed an event is all. I'm guessing you didn't see the Reisen event on Floor 3, so I advise checking there. Making sure Eirin's marker on Floor 2 is gone is also a good idea as well.
This is the current thread....
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Yuyuko has the highest death resistance in the game. 200 base death resist iirc. Komachi is 160 (?). I know for certain Yuyuko is higher.
And if Eiki inflicted death on you as Komachi, I think you just got really unlucky.
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For example, I see Marisa has A in Magic so that an obvious place to put stats but should I bother put points into her HP and Defense if the growth is low or just focus on Mind? She also has S in Speed so should I toss a couple points in there as well?
You are better off looking at the actual number, you can see that on the character sheet in Labyrinth of Touhou 2. As for what point to put in, it depends on what type of character you want. If you want to be able to survive a hit, HP is generally a good investment, if the character has somewhat decent HP growth. If not, then probably Defense or Mind, depending on which one grows faster.
Some people don't care about survival, so they just put it all on offense, which would be Magic and Speed. Speed so that you have just enough to get your attack in and be switched out.
If Speed is anything like in Labyrinth of Touhou 1, you don't really want to put points in it, because of how it scales. But it is still good to have, mainly to be faster than your opponent.
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Some people don't care about survival, so they just put it all on offense, which would be Magic and Speed. Speed so that you have just enough to get your attack in and be switched out.
I'm of the opinion that characters should stick to what they're good at. Sure, I could make glass cannon Marisa take a hit or two but I'd rather have each character specialize in a role and just get better at managing formation changes.
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If Speed is anything like in Labyrinth of Touhou 1, you don't really want to put points in it, because of how it scales. But it is still good to have, mainly to be faster than your opponent.
It is. Exact same formula.
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I found speed to be a great stat for most characters, unless they were at the very bottom of speed growth.
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I've started poking around a disassembly of LoT2 and figured I'd drop by to share one of the more interesting things I've discovered. If this is already known, well, my bad. I haven't seen anything on the wiki about it and google turns up el-zilcho, so...
At offset 0x277780, the game sets up the class system. All class and sub-class names are loaded into memory, as well as some graphics and other unimportant things. Tucked away at the end of the subclass list, the game loads the names of two enigmatic subclasses: "Appraiser" and "Elementalist".
...
002781E9 [this+0x0000a984] = "Gambler"
002781F6 [this+0x0000a988] = "Diva"
00278203 [this+0x0000a98c] = "Transcendent"
00278210 [this+0x0000a990] = "Appraiser" ; Hello... what's this?
0027821D [this+0x0000a994] = "Elementalist" ; And another one! :o
0027822A return this
You can assign these classes to your characters via cheat engine or some other debugging aid by giving a character the subclass IDs 114 or 115 (subclasses normally go from 100 (guardian) to 113 (transcendant)). However, there are no skills associated with them so it's really just for show. Were they planned but scrapped? Or are they perhaps place-holders for the plus/extra/whatever disk?
(http://oi58.tinypic.com/34y5gnn.jpg)
Whelp, just thought I'd post about this somewhere. Ciao!
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Hm, that's really cool.
Elementalist is a very obvious role, but what would appraiser do? I wonder.
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Possibly boost item drops or something, similar to Rinnosuke.
It's possible these were dummied out and will be re-added in the expansion. Who knows.
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The wiki didn't tell me that there was a Reisen event. I activated it and returned to the Mokou fight and saw that her event is there. Thanks.
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The final boss' multi target Spirit attack really hurts even though I'm already gearing spirit resistance...
Does anyone know if you should put a priority on MND or DEF? Or can I just completely ignore one of the two? I'm not sure what to do because I losing to the boss but I can never tell why.
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The final boss' multi target Spirit attack really hurts even though I'm already gearing spirit resistance...
Does anyone know if you should put a priority on MND or DEF? Or can I just completely ignore one of the two? I'm not sure what to do because I losing to the boss but I can never tell why.
You can increase your resistance to spirit with money, level 20-25 for most resistances will last through most of the post game.
Make sure you have some good secondary classes for your characters too, as these can make a big difference.
Don't forget to debuff the boss and buff your own characters as well.
Do you keep dieing to the same thing? Or you do you just slowly get beaten?
Are you using characters with dark attacks? The last boss is weak to dark.
What are the average levels of your stats? You should start aiming for them to be the same as your character levels now.
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The final boss' multi target Spirit attack really hurts even though I'm already gearing spirit resistance...
Does anyone know if you should put a priority on MND or DEF? Or can I just completely ignore one of the two? I'm not sure what to do because I losing to the boss but I can never tell why.
This is just my assumption but I mainly focused on DEF since it seems like a composite attack and the bosses first phase is mostly basic attacks.
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You can increase your resistance to spirit with money, level 20-25 for most resistances will last through most of the post game.
Make sure you have some good secondary classes for your characters too, as these can make a big difference.
Don't forget to debuff the boss and buff your own characters as well.
Do you keep dieing to the same thing? Or you do you just slowly get beaten?
Are you using characters with dark attacks? The last boss is weak to dark.
What are the average levels of your stats? You should start aiming for them to be the same as your character levels now.
I have spirit resistance on my characters thoughhh. And I buff a ton too. (And try to debuff the boss)
Yeah I have like... Flan. I've been trying out Kaguya/Rumia and next time probably Kasen but I haven't found someone good yet :/
Also, sheesh, leveling up all my stats to 100? That's... a lot.
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I have spirit resistance on my characters thoughhh. And I buff a ton too. (And try to debuff the boss)
Yeah I have like... Flan. I've been trying out Kaguya/Rumia and next time probably Kasen but I haven't found someone good yet :/
Also, sheesh, leveling up all my stats to 100? That's... a lot.
You will need even more stats if you want to do the post game =\ , it is grindy but not as bad as other games.
Here is a list of Dark attackers that I can think of;
Kasen, Flan, Rumia, Kogasa, Orin, Sakuya, Eirin, Yuyuko, Hina & Reisen for debuffs too, and Satori if you got others dark users on the front line.
Wriggle can do some decent damage with Poison. Eiki can fully pierce defenses but it is spirit damage, her dark attack doesn't do much damage too.
What characters are you using to buff?
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You missed Parsee. She's almost pure dark, and her nuke does insane damage.
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Hi again. Figured I'd drop this off to complement the whole "dummied-out subclasses" thing...
Dummied skills list (http://textuploader.com/oyd4)
As far as I can tell, none of these are available short of hacking (though I could have slipped up on one or two...). I haven't tested any of them so it's also unclear if they still work or not. A few interesting notes...
- Skills 58, 59, 69, and 70 were probably meant for the dummied-out Elementalist subclass. It's unclear if any of the other skills were meant for the Appraiser subclass but my guess is no. Well, now we know (maybe?)...
- Skill 713 implies Yuuka was meant to have a Master Spark as well. It's unclear how it would have differed from Marisa's or why it was removed though...
- Skill 233 sounds pretty OP. :) Note the "+" in the name; not to be confused with the regular version...
- Skill 262 is different from Minoriko and (some other character, forgot who and too lazy to look for them)'s version: it only gains 1 Lv.
So, seems like a possible explanation of the Elementalist subclass exists now. There are also two dummied-out items with untranslated names/info that look to be in the right place to be "Elementalist's proof" and "Appraiser's proof". It seems feasible to hack at least the former class back into the game, given that skills apparently exist for it. Neat, I guess.
Ciao!
(For the record, in regards to the last boss, I found that stacking buffs on Byakuren and using Duplicating Chant to max out Nitori/Flandre's ATK or the party's defensive stats in general gave great results. I had two speedy tanks doing the switching and kept swapping attackers and Byakuren in and out whenever I got the chance - the fight was surprisingly easy with that approach. Might want to give that a try...)
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You missed Parsee. She's almost pure dark, and her nuke does insane damage.
Ah snap :derp: I bet she is Jealous she got left out.
Ya she does do nice damage, but you need to give the boss terror first and then it eats the affect up too :ohdear:
For the record, in regards to the last boss, I found that stacking buffs on Byakuren and using Duplicating Chant to max out Nitori/Flandre's ATK or the party's defensive stats in general gave great results. I had two speedy tanks doing the switching and kept swapping attackers and Byakuren in and out whenever I got the chance - the fight was surprisingly easy with that approach. Might want to give that a try...
I use Byakuren + Strategist to keep 100% buffs up on her and duplicate them out, and Sanae to buff Byakuren up fast and then go Magician to give out MP.
I also found out that Strategist keeps the Magic Circuit buff up longer as well, so it can probably affect other spells that work the same way.
As for the Master Spark, in LoT1 Marisa's Master Spark was Single target while Yuuka's was Multitarget and did less damage. Now since Marisa's in LoT2 is already Multitarget, Yuuka didn't really need it. They did give her the multi attack skill instead to make up for that, but I wish they gave her 1 more base spell card.
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Some of those dummy skills seem like it belongs to some characters but were maybe taken out because of balance consideration. Youmu may suppose to get Mental Concentration +, since she has some similar gimmick in Touhou of Labyrinth 1. No other character can recovery as much mana as Youmu because of the innate doubling effect.
Master Spark is probably Yuuka's skill, but with Extra Attack, the designers were thinking it may be on the OP side. If you get lucky, 3+ Consecutive Master Sparks to a boss is pretty devastating.
Coiling Shimenawa is probably Kanako's move. Wonder why they took that out?
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You will need even more stats if you want to do the post game =\ , it is grindy but not as bad as other games.
Here is a list of Dark attackers that I can think of;
Kasen, Flan, Rumia, Kogasa, Orin, Sakuya, Eirin, Yuyuko, Hina & Reisen for debuffs too, and Satori if you got others dark users on the front line.
Wriggle can do some decent damage with Poison. Eiki can fully pierce defenses but it is spirit damage, her dark attack doesn't do much damage too.
What characters are you using to buff?
I use Wriggle already, will obviously keep Flan, tried out Rumia, dealt like 20000 damage with lots of buffs. Haven't tried Kogasa and Kasen yet but I'm not sure if they have enough might do deal considerably good damage. The rest don't have attack builds (except Yuyuko but I'm not sure about her either)
I have Byakuren pretty much almost always on the field. I use Yukari and Keine for buffs and also Reimu for healing.
You missed Parsee. She's almost pure dark, and her nuke does insane damage.
Parsee isn't really to build to attack for me and switching her in to inflict terror and nuke sounds fairly risky... and since I have never used said nuke before, I'm not sure if it'll be effective :ohdear
(For the record, in regards to the last boss, I found that stacking buffs on Byakuren and using Duplicating Chant to max out Nitori/Flandre's ATK or the party's defensive stats in general gave great results. I had two speedy tanks doing the switching and kept swapping attackers and Byakuren in and out whenever I got the chance - the fight was surprisingly easy with that approach. Might want to give that a try...)
That's exactly the approach I'm using, though... (though I'm not sure if you could really call Komachi speedy. Though I do often give them Byakuren's 5 Stat Buffs just for her (well, not really her) and my other durable characters to have defenses/speed.)
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Parsee is actually very effective vs Ama no Murakumo. She was in my 3rd/4th slot most of the time during the 1st and near the end of 2nd phase. Her defense and HP aren't that bad, and if you put a Yukari on the field, her defense becomes especially good. (If you invested a lot into her Mind.)
It's true that Parsee doesn't have much attack, however, she doesn't need that much. She can deal a buttload of damage without much attack. Usually I would give a buff to Parsee before hand, inflict terror on le Sword (Terror is easy to inflict on Ama no Murakumo) then go to town. It's also a good idea to have a Hina on the field when you do this, to further increase Parsee's attacks (with her self-inflicted debuffs and debuffing Ama no Murakumo). While you're at it, add a Kogasa to to complete the 'Calamity Four' which is what I call it; Yukari, Parsee, Kogasa, Hina. (You don't really need Yukari, but I'd recommend it. I didn't use her, but I know that if I did it would have been easier since I was using Parsee)
But yeah, if you're gonna use Parsee, you should AT LEAST have a Hina imo.
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I used Kasen since I got her, and she was in party for 95% of the game.
So I had her all built up and knew how to use her.
She is good against the last boss because of her dark attack, and she can trade TP to survive getting killed sometime,
Her nature AoE is good for trash and bosses with adds or multiple parts.
I didn't use Yukari much, but I could see her being OP with Aya. Combined with Flan you could deal some serious damage, but I never tried that out.
Could even throw Satori in there too, but Flan would be seriously low on MP and might not get all the attacks in at that point.
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Parsee isn't really to build to attack for me and switching her in to inflict terror and nuke sounds fairly risky... and since I have never used said nuke before, I'm not sure if it'll be effective :ohdear
It's very effective. I don't know if the attack power is tied to the strength of the terror or not, but the damage it can do is amazing. It's perfectly comparable to a full-atk Nitori's 3d super scope. I think her insane damage comes from a really high final multiplier, though. I tried using it on a postgame boss that was weak to dark, and it barely scratched him.
You don't want to have Parsee inflict terror herself, though. It's much better to partner her up with Kasen (or Kogasa), and have them do the terror, letting Parsee nuke every turn she gets (ideally). Plus, Parsee has the +dark damage skill, so she'll help those two deal damage regardless.
Hi again. Figured I'd drop this off to complement the whole "dummied-out subclasses" thing...
Dummied skills list (http://textuploader.com/oyd4)
As far as I can tell, none of these are available short of hacking (though I could have slipped up on one or two...). I haven't tested any of them so it's also unclear if they still work or not. A few interesting notes...
- Skills 58, 59, 69, and 70 were probably meant for the dummied-out Elementalist subclass. It's unclear if any of the other skills were meant for the Appraiser subclass but my guess is no. Well, now we know (maybe?)...
- Skill 713 implies Yuuka was meant to have a Master Spark as well. It's unclear how it would have differed from Marisa's or why it was removed though...
- Skill 233 sounds pretty OP. :) Note the "+" in the name; not to be confused with the regular version...
- Skill 262 is different from Minoriko and (some other character, forgot who and too lazy to look for them)'s version: it only gains 1 Lv.
So, seems like a possible explanation of the Elementalist subclass exists now. There are also two dummied-out items with untranslated names/info that look to be in the right place to be "Elementalist's proof" and "Appraiser's proof". It seems feasible to hack at least the former class back into the game, given that skills apparently exist for it. Neat, I guess.
+wnd damage sounds like Iku, -Ntr is Suika. I wonder why those skills were cut, since there's currently no way to deal extra wind or reduce nature. Or deal bonus damage to dragons or Oni.
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+ Wind does sound like an Iku ability, but -Nature for Suika? No. It sounds more like Yuuka. And I'd imagine the extra damage to Oni ability being on Yuugi, as Suika's ability allows to more easily land paralysis on Oni.
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+ Wind does sound like an Iku ability, but -Nature for Suika? No. It sounds more like Yuuka. And I'd imagine the extra damage to Oni ability being on Yuugi, as Suika's ability allows to more easily land paralysis on Oni.
63. Heavy Drinker of Mt. Ibuki (2 Lv, 5 SP)
When the user is in front, NTR damage taken is reduced.
This effect is applied to all in front.
No, I'd say that's definitely Suika. She does have NTR attacks too, so it's not really that out of place.
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Well, I played around a bit with the dummied out commands and skills and they seem to work just fine. I've compiled a character/subclass hacking document for those who want to try out some of the dummied-out stuff or who just want to mess around with character data/create their own subclasses.
LoT2 Character and Subclass hacking document (http://textuploader.com/oyj5)
Ex 1: 061BA4 Base TP 10
This is Reimu's base TP. Its default value is 0x10 (16 in decimal) and it can be found at offset 0x061BA4. You can change it to, say, 0x63 to give her 99 base TP.
Ex 2: 061EBE Command 1 F4 01
This is Reimu's first "command"-type skill, located at offset 0x61EBE. If you look down in the skills section, under "F4 01", you'll find it listed as "Yin-Yang Orb". You can change it to, say, 0x08 0x02 to give her Rabies Bite ( :o ).
Because of how the game sets up its data, there's no easy way to add or remove skills; skills can only be changed to something else. Anything more cannot be done with just a hex editor and requires assembly. Have fun!
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So how would you use this in Cheat Engine?
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So how would you use this in Cheat Engine?
You wouldn't. Cheat Engine is a debugger, not a hex editor (http://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/). You can use it to edit something already loaded in memory but making modifications to files on the disk isn't what it was made for.
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You wouldn't. Cheat Engine is a debugger, not a hex editor (http://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/). You can use it to edit something already loaded in memory but making modifications to files on the disk isn't what it was made for.
Dang... I wanted to give Remi some more attacks. 2 spellcards, with the buff becoming completely useless later on, is really terrible design.
EDIT
Wait... how does Satori's Commands work then?
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So you can give anybody Mokou resurrection/Mainteniance Or any spell card just for shit and giggles? :V
Also, So monsters/boss moves have values too? Imagine giving to anybody moves like
C: filling the world
Ame no murakumo: Advent of the children of god
Magical Heart: Space-Time Warp
Crystal guardian: Summon Elemental Crystals
Ran: Shikigami summon
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Dang... I wanted to give Remi some more attacks. 2 spellcards, with the buff becoming completely useless later on, is really terrible design.
Replace your exe with this (http://180upload.com/xf9qj41gnoxh). (Edit: Actually, just drop it in the same folder as your exe. Don't replace it. Just in case. ;) ) I wrote a quick little hack to give her an extra command (seemed to work okay when I tested it...). Currently it's using Rabies Bite (08 02) as a place-holder. You can change it by changing the value at 0x06A34C with a hex editor to any of the values in the hacking guide I posted earlier. Feel free to give her something fun. :)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2a84ufd.png) (http://i62.tinypic.com/k9ayat.png)
Wait... how does Satori's Commands work then?
I'm not sure what's causing you trouble... She just reads out the values stored in every front-line character's command listings. If you change a character's commands, the commands she has access to also change accordingly.
Also, So monsters/boss moves have values too?
Enemy commands differ from character commands. They're contained in a different list. From my experimenting, giving a character a skill ID that doesn't refer to a character skill just crashes the game because they're nowhere to be found in the handler function (http://pastebin.com/pvLKqZDj). Junk data ends up being used when trying to load up their name/info/data and the border between execution and crashes collapses pretty hard. So enemies must use enemy skills and characters must use character skills; there's no way to mix and match them. Too bad... :P
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I'm not sure what's causing you trouble... She just reads out the values stored in every front-line character's command listings. If you change a character's commands, the commands she has access to also change accordingly.
I was just thinking you could use something similar to the function that loads her commands, but have it read from a different location in memory to easily change any characters commands.
Probably more work than its worth though.
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Replace your exe with this (http://180upload.com/xf9qj41gnoxh). (Edit: Actually, just drop it in the same folder as your exe. Don't replace it. Just in case. ;) ) I wrote a quick little hack to give her an extra command (seemed to work okay when I tested it...). Currently it's using Rabies Bite (08 02) as a place-holder. You can change it by changing the value at 0x06A34C with a hex editor to any of the values in the hacking guide I posted earlier. Feel free to give her something fun. :)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2a84ufd.png) (http://i62.tinypic.com/k9ayat.png)
I'm not sure what's causing you trouble... She just reads out the values stored in every front-line character's command listings. If you change a character's commands, the commands she has access to also change accordingly.
Enemy commands differ from character commands. They're contained in a different list. From my experimenting, giving a character a skill ID that doesn't refer to a character skill just crashes the game because they're nowhere to be found in the handler function (http://pastebin.com/pvLKqZDj). Junk data ends up being used when trying to load up their name/info/data and the border between execution and crashes collapses pretty hard. So enemies must use enemy skills and characters must use character skills; there's no way to mix and match them. Too bad... :P
Hmm? Are you using a decompiler to get that function? Or part of IDA? There's a couple of things I'd like to find out about the game, but trying to trace through the asm in OllyDbg is suffering.
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Hmm? Are you using a decompiler to get that function? Or part of IDA? There's a couple of things I'd like to find out about the game, but trying to trace through the asm in OllyDbg is suffering.
I'm a youkai hacker. I use ndisasm to dump a listing (ndisasm -u thlabyrinth2.exe > disassembly.txt) and then go through it by hand. I also code quick-and-dirty little tools to facilitate some things (in this case, a string-extractor that just takes the highlighted offset in my text editor and copies the string it points to to the clipboard - same tool I used when working on LoT-Rebirth (though with different offsets)). And, of course, I have no idea where I'd be without a text editor that supports regular expressions.
I'll be glad to point you off in the right direction if you're looking for anything in particular. I haven't found everything yet but depending on what you're trying to figure out about the game, maybe I can help...
On topic, is it just me or are the post-game boss level requirements completely insane? Even 30+ levels over them I get annihilated before I get a chance to do much. I'm starting to wonder if there's much of a point to it other than bragging rights (by the time you get the last 2 characters, anyhow, the post-game's nearly done so they practically seem to be there for novelty purposes only...) Granted, diva-Aya can make short work of the post-game bosses but that's just cheating. :D
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+ Wind does sound like an Iku ability, but -Nature for Suika? No. It sounds more like Yuuka. And I'd imagine the extra damage to Oni ability being on Yuugi, as Suika's ability allows to more easily land paralysis on Oni.
Iku is more Lightning than Wind. It makes more sense for it to be either Aya, Sanae or Kanako.
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>is doing really well against the final boss
>Super Scope 3D
>Final Boss summons minions
>Nitori not ready to use Extending Arm because I can't switch her around fast enough
>Loses fight
why this
Edit: And then I beat it the next try because I actually save Nitori's MP for Extending Arm and THEN Super Scope.
Gotta love how that one move from the boss can trip up the entire fight and pretty much end it despite doing so well.
The best part? I got a perfect victory!
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Well, I played around a bit with the dummied out commands and skills and they seem to work just fine. I've compiled a character/subclass hacking document for those who want to try out some of the dummied-out stuff or who just want to mess around with character data/create their own subclasses.
LoT2 Character and Subclass hacking document (http://textuploader.com/oyj5)
Ex 1: 061BA4 Base TP 10
This is Reimu's base TP. Its default value is 0x10 (16 in decimal) and it can be found at offset 0x061BA4. You can change it to, say, 0x63 to give her 99 base TP.
Ex 2: 061EBE Command 1 F4 01
This is Reimu's first "command"-type skill, located at offset 0x61EBE. If you look down in the skills section, under "F4 01", you'll find it listed as "Yin-Yang Orb". You can change it to, say, 0x08 0x02 to give her Rabies Bite ( :o ).
Because of how the game sets up its data, there's no easy way to add or remove skills; skills can only be changed to something else. Anything more cannot be done with just a hex editor and requires assembly. Have fun!
Question for you, EthanSilver. How does the game handle the various Tomes that add the various boost skills to the characters? Does it just unlock something that's already there, or are the boosts listed on a separate list in the program itself? My reasoning is that I would want to know if it's possible to give everyone else the High Boost Skills that Rinnosuke normally gets, and see the results of that.
Also, if one could, is it possible to alter how a skill operates, and if so, what are the limitations? Sorry if the last part sounds vague, but I really am curious about this stuff is all.
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Tried giving meiling aya peerless wind god spellcard, the game promply crashed, I am using xvi32 hex editor, Still learning how to edit this because i have no idea of wat i am doing
I have this false hope that someday, in the distant future, someone will release a easy to use character editor :V
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I'm a youkai hacker. I use ndisasm to dump a listing (ndisasm -u thlabyrinth2.exe > disassembly.txt) and then go through it by hand. I also code quick-and-dirty little tools to facilitate some things (in this case, a string-extractor that just takes the highlighted offset in my text editor and copies the string it points to to the clipboard - same tool I used when working on LoT-Rebirth (though with different offsets)). And, of course, I have no idea where I'd be without a text editor that supports regular expressions.
I'll be glad to point you off in the right direction if you're looking for anything in particular. I haven't found everything yet but depending on what you're trying to figure out about the game, maybe I can help...
Ah, so manual decompilation. Okay. I can do that myself, it's just that going through (decompiled) C++ would be a lot easier for me, Oh well.
The main things I'm curious about are the evasion/accuracy formula and the damage formulas. I don't think you'd really be able to 'point me in the right direction' beyond just doing it all yourself, so don't worry about it.
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How does the game handle the various Tomes that add the various boost skills to the characters? Does it just unlock something that's already there, or are the boosts listed on a separate list in the program itself? My reasoning is that I would want to know if it's possible to give everyone else the High Boost Skills that Rinnosuke normally gets, and see the results of that.
The function which sets up a character's passive stat boost skills looks like this (http://textuploader.com/oycx). To sum it up, a character's default skills are switched "on". The game then checks all tomes that were used and switches those skills "on" as well. Then, it assigns the ID of the corresponding passive stat boost skill, checking to see if it's handling Rinnosuke and assigning the "high boost" skill IDs instead if that's the case. Then some stuff that I-don't-know-wtf-yet-but-it's-probably-not-too-important.
There's no easy way to control for individual characters, but you can change the ID of who gets the "high boost" skills by changing the 0x03 at 00061791 (Rinnosuke's character ID) to something else.
You can also make everyone get the "high boost" skills by changing the 0x01 at 00061799 to 0x19 (making it so the default skills for boost skills uses the "high boost" list).
Also, if one could, is it possible to alter how a skill operates, and if so, what are the limitations? Sorry if the last part sounds vague, but I really am curious about this stuff is all.
I haven't looked into this yet but the original LoT gave each skill a set of parameters (MP / %ATK / %MAG / %DEF / %MND / Post-use delay / targetting info, etc..) and handled additional effects (like the influence of Marisa's remaining MP on Master Spark's damage calculations, or other oddball things) through code. I'd assume most passive skills are code-based (can't really see how they could be handled with just a bunch of parameters... there's too little overlap between their effects) but a very quick look through my listing makes me think spellcards are handled like they were in the original LoT. In other words, most damage calculations and the likes can be tweaked with a hex editor but the more complex stuff is handled through code on a per-spellcard basis.
Tried giving meiling aya peerless wind god spellcard, the game promply crashed, I am using xvi32 hex editor, Still learning how to edit this because i have no idea of wat i am doing
It worked fine on my end.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/e7i89z.png)
Meiling's first command is at 068E6D. The value there should read "76 02". If not, make sure you're at the right address and make sure you're using the right version of the game (1.203). Change it to Peerless Wind God's value (4A 02). Make sure you're not inserting extra bytes - IIRC, xvi32 can switch between "insert" and "replace" with the "Insert" key.
If you don't have the right version, you can try looking for...
20 01 00 00 8B 45 F8 C7 80 EC 05 00 00 76 02 00
If only one match turns up, the "76 02" near the end is what you want to modify.
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I'm a youkai hacker. I use ndisasm to dump a listing (ndisasm -u thlabyrinth2.exe > disassembly.txt) and then go through it by hand. I also code quick-and-dirty little tools to facilitate some things (in this case, a string-extractor that just takes the highlighted offset in my text editor and copies the string it points to to the clipboard - same tool I used when working on LoT-Rebirth (though with different offsets)). And, of course, I have no idea where I'd be without a text editor that supports regular expressions.
I'll be glad to point you off in the right direction if you're looking for anything in particular. I haven't found everything yet but depending on what you're trying to figure out about the game, maybe I can help...
On topic, is it just me or are the post-game boss level requirements completely insane? Even 30+ levels over them I get annihilated before I get a chance to do much. I'm starting to wonder if there's much of a point to it other than bragging rights (by the time you get the last 2 characters, anyhow, the post-game's nearly done so they practically seem to be there for novelty purposes only...) Granted, diva-Aya can make short work of the post-game bosses but that's just cheating. :D
You have to have good sub classes, good items, high stat levels, and good skill allocation until you get to around level 160.
The Post Game Shadow boss' Speed and Defenses Sky Rocket compared to the main game, while the the other extra bosses actually have "real" difficulty instead of just stats padded on them.
I said this previously in the thread, but for the main game my money stats were only around HALF of my level, and got curb stomped in post game.
After I got most of my stats to the same or MORE than my level, changing up sub classes, and redoing level stats for my characters, I did much better.
Shadow bosses 4 and 5 are the first hurdle really, and then 11 and 12, if I counted correctly.
The Deformed and Secret Bosses are not that big of a problem if you can clear all the shadow bosses, since their defenses are REASONABLE.
If you ever saw the Enhanced boss rush on youtube, the guy in there is at least level 250, and it still takes him 25 mins to beat it.
It took me about that long as well, but I was level 170. He just brute forced it when there were better things he could have done.
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Iku is more Lightning than Wind. It makes more sense for it to be either Aya, Sanae or Kanako.
Iku in SWR/Soku attacks with both Wind and Electricity. Besides, Wind and Electric are the same in this game, so her having a passive that reduces wind damage would not be far fetched at all.
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Or, Take flandre for a walk (Equip with genji glove or any boost attacking items) Buff attack/speed with enhancer sakuya And boost speed with aya
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Out of curiosity Ethan, would you be able to find any damage formulas using that?
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Out of curiosity Ethan, would you be able to find any damage formulas using that?
Damage is apparently calculated as follows for most commands...
((ATK * CommandATK% + MAG * CommandMAG%) - (DEF * CommandDEF% + MND * CommandMND%)) / (Affinity/100)
For instance, Rabies Bite (http://textuploader.com/oyxk) has 150 CommandATK% and 50 CommandDEF%, so the formula for it would be...
((ATK * 1.5) - (DEF * 0.5)) / (PHYAffinity / 100)
It should be noted that there appears to be a hidden affinity. The game has values for 9 of them. It looks as though the "hidden" affinity is for magic attacks (ie, melee attacks by characters whose MAG exceeds their ATK). Why the game hides it is unclear...
But, there's also a multiplier applied somewhere in there (not sure where yet; either to the damage portion or (most likely) to the (damage - defense) portion... or to the whole formula; Rabies Bite's is 150% for instance) which generally goes up by 5% / additional spellcard level. In addition, there's some degree of randomization I'm unclear on. Sudden Impulse multiplies the min variance by 10 * Lv and the max variance by 5 * Lv (or maaaaybe the other way around), for instance. And of course, passive skills can have an impact on a lot of this (ex, Enhanced Normal Attack adds 30 to the CommandATK or CommandMAG, depending on which type of attack is being carried out).
I'll probably have the specifics later on. I'm busying myself with the skills at the moment so it's likely to turn up soon enough...
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The function which sets up a character's passive stat boost skills looks like this (http://textuploader.com/oycx). To sum it up, a character's default skills are switched "on". The game then checks all tomes that were used and switches those skills "on" as well. Then, it assigns the ID of the corresponding passive stat boost skill, checking to see if it's handling Rinnosuke and assigning the "high boost" skill IDs instead if that's the case. Then some stuff that I-don't-know-wtf-yet-but-it's-probably-not-too-important.
There's no easy way to control for individual characters, but you can change the ID of who gets the "high boost" skills by changing the 0x03 at 00061791 (Rinnosuke's character ID) to something else.
You can also make everyone get the "high boost" skills by changing the 0x01 at 00061799 to 0x19 (making it so the default skills for boost skills uses the "high boost" list).
So it's possible to give everyone the High Boost skills, then... Thanks for the info.
I haven't looked into this yet but the original LoT gave each skill a set of parameters (MP / %ATK / %MAG / %DEF / %MND / Post-use delay / targetting info, etc..) and handled additional effects (like the influence of Marisa's remaining MP on Master Spark's damage calculations, or other oddball things) through code. I'd assume most passive skills are code-based (can't really see how they could be handled with just a bunch of parameters... there's too little overlap between their effects) but a very quick look through my listing makes me think spellcards are handled like they were in the original LoT. In other words, most damage calculations and the likes can be tweaked with a hex editor but the more complex stuff is handled through code on a per-spellcard basis.
Can I presume that healing HP is parameter based and curing status ailments is code based, yes? Also, I can safely presume that anything that restores MP is code based(Magic Transfer mainly), yes?
Damage is apparently calculated as follows for most commands...
((ATK * CommandATK% + MAG * CommandMAG%) - (DEF * CommandDEF% + MND * CommandMND%)) / (Affinity/100)
For instance, Rabies Bite (http://textuploader.com/oyxk) has 150 CommandATK% and 50 CommandDEF%, so the formula for it would be...
((ATK * 1.5) - (DEF * 0.5)) / (PHYAffinity / 100)
It should be noted that there appears to be a hidden affinity. The game has values for 9 of them. It looks as though the "hidden" affinity is for magic attacks (ie, melee attacks by characters whose MAG exceeds their ATK). Why the game hides it is unclear...
But, there's also a multiplier applied somewhere in there (not sure where yet; either to the damage portion or (most likely) to the (damage - defense) portion... or to the whole formula; Rabies Bite's is 150% for instance) which generally goes up by 5% / additional spellcard level. In addition, there's some degree of randomization I'm unclear on. Sudden Impulse multiplies the min variance by 10 * Lv and the max variance by 5 * Lv (or maaaaybe the other way around), for instance. And of course, passive skills can have an impact on a lot of this (ex, Enhanced Normal Attack adds 30 to the CommandATK or CommandMAG, depending on which type of attack is being carried out).
I'll probably have the specifics later on. I'm busying myself with the skills at the moment so it's likely to turn up soon enough...
A few things...
1. A hidden affinity, hm? What is the affinity written as in code?
2. Aren't melee attacks that use the MAG stat MYS affinity?
3. I think that the game probably uses a constantly changing variable (read: time) as the means to randomize the damage. By how much, I don't know.
I do believe that we all appreciate what you're doing, Ethan. Thanks.
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Can I presume that healing HP is parameter based and curing status ailments is code based, yes? Also, I can safely presume that anything that restores MP is code based(Magic Transfer mainly), yes?
Healing is handled in the same way as regular damage, only the CommandATK% and CommandMAG% values are negative. Healing spellcards rarely (never?) set a value for DEF/MND and skip the affinity calculation (I haven't confirmed this, but it sounds reasonable to assume so...) For instance, Exorcising Border (http://textuploader.com/oyxg) has a MAG of -66 (and a base multiplier of 100), so its formula before applying passives/randomization is...
MAG * 0.66 (+5% per level above 1)
Ailments are removed when they have a negative value (usually -1).
Magic Transfer, I'm having a look at right now. I'll edit this post once I see how it handles itself. I'm guess it's code-based though, nothing in the basic spellcard structure seems like it would account for an effect like that...
(Edit: Yeeeep, code-based.)
1. A hidden affinity, hm? What is the affinity written as in code?
It comes up in a number of places. Enemies and characters, for instance, have an extra parameter right after their affinity list with a value that looks affinity-like (100 in many cases). Spellcards set their element through a series of flags (isElementFIR, isElementSPI, isElementPHY...) stored as an array of 9 values, not 8. I haven't found one that uses the 9th one yet but then again, I've only looked at a few spellcards so far.
Here's the Kedama (http://textuploader.com/oyxu)'s affinities and resistances. Note that resistances also seem to have a few extra parameters...
2. Aren't melee attacks that use the MAG stat MYS affinity?
Hmm. Then, I'm not sure. "MAG affinity" is just my guess - it could also be some supar secreat hiddan nazi elemunt!!!, or something that was simply dummied out. All's I know for sure is that it exists in memory, is defined for characters/enemies/spellcards, and can be used (but isn't necessarily used) by all affinity-related code.
I do believe that we all appreciate what you're doing, Ethan. Thanks.
Thanks. :) I figured I may as well share my discoveries - so far, the wiki is kind of sparse as to the specifics of each spellcard/skills/formulas so I'd be glad to help work out the game's mysteries.
I've been considering moving these mechanics-related findings to RaNGE to avoid cluttering the thread too much and distracting from actual gameplay discussion. Or is this the right place? Any thoughts? I kinda feel like I'm posting plenty of walls of text...
Oh, craaaap, forgot supper on the stove while I was typing this up x_x
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I'd say I love you but I'm not that kind of guy. Excuse me while I backtrack through the thread so that I can do some formula/enemy stat finding.
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I am not sure if this will affect the player characters, but I know some enemies are more resistance to some singular stats debuffs than others, maybe that might have something to do with it?
There might be something on how resistant to the strength of a status or debuff is, and not just the affliction rate.
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I'll just leave this here and turn in for the night.
Spellcard formulas, part 1 (http://textuploader.com/oyg3)
A few things are missing and I can't guarantee I haven't made any mistakes (it's like, 5 am; cut me some slack :( ). I hope to have every character done in a day or two, and maybe I'll tackle the enemy spellcards after that. A few quick notes...
- (ailment/debuff) chance may or may not be a percentage value. I really don't know how the game uses this; I just got out the info that was in the spellcards. But the higher, the more likely the effect/debuff will be caused.
- Some effects are handled through code. I have a good idea where, but I don't have enough information to reverse-engineer those parts yet. I've left a TODO where appropriate.
- Some spellcards have a second version used by the boss version of their owner. The stats are often different. I left a note to that effect in the relevant cases (mainly, Youmu, Komachi, Kaguya).
- All damaging spellcards have a resistance of 50% DEF or MND so far. Dunno if that's always the case. Also, increasing their level will always increase the multiplier by 5% in addition to other possible effects.
More tomorrow. G'nite!
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Wow, good information.
I was trying out spell card testing on the first stage and yeah, I noticed that the increase when levelling up damage cards were lackluster.
Spellcards set their element through a series of flags (isElementFIR, isElementSPI, isElementPHY...) stored as an array of 9 values, not 8. I haven't found one that uses the 9th one yet but then again, I've only looked at a few spellcards so far.
Of the 9, have you counted Maribel's Void element?
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I'll just leave this here and turn in for the night.
Spellcard formulas, part 1 (http://textuploader.com/oyg3)
A few things are missing and I can't guarantee I haven't made any mistakes (it's like, 5 am; cut me some slack :( ). I hope to have every character done in a day or two, and maybe I'll tackle the enemy spellcards after that. A few quick notes...
- (ailment/debuff) chance may or may not be a percentage value. I really don't know how the game uses this; I just got out the info that was in the spellcards. But the higher, the more likely the effect/debuff will be caused.
- Some effects are handled through code. I have a good idea where, but I don't have enough information to reverse-engineer those parts yet. I've left a TODO where appropriate.
- Some spellcards have a second version used by the boss version of their owner. The stats are often different. I left a note to that effect in the relevant cases (mainly, Youmu, Komachi, Kaguya).
- All damaging spellcards have a resistance of 50% DEF or MND so far. Dunno if that's always the case. Also, increasing their level will always increase the multiplier by 5% in addition to other possible effects.
More tomorrow. G'nite!
...I thought it was Thanksgiving today, not Christmas.
I take back what I said, I love you. In a "You're freaking amazing" way.
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Wow I love getting some accurate info on the spellcards, those vague descriptions in-game are so annoying.
There's two things in that list that I'd like to point out:
1) The damage formula of "Narrow Confines of Avici" really does rival all the other big nukes out there, as was tested before with Satori.
2) Super Scope 3D and Parsee's big nuke "Jealousy of Kind and Lovely" have identical damage formulas. Certainly something to consider when planning strong nukers for end-game.
Now I'm curious to see what the damage formula for Killing Doll is, since it's one of those skills that focus more on damage multiplier over the "ATK * xxx %" skills.
Thanks for the info Ethan! :)
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Healing is handled in the same way as regular damage, only the CommandATK% and CommandMAG% values are negative. Healing spellcards rarely (never?) set a value for DEF/MND and skip the affinity calculation (I haven't confirmed this, but it sounds reasonable to assume so...) For instance, Exorcising Border (http://textuploader.com/oyxg) has a MAG of -66 (and a base multiplier of 100), so its formula before applying passives/randomization is...
MAG * 0.66 (+5% per level above 1)
Ailments are removed when they have a negative value (usually -1).
Magic Transfer, I'm having a look at right now. I'll edit this post once I see how it handles itself. I'm guess it's code-based though, nothing in the basic spellcard structure seems like it would account for an effect like that...
(Edit: Yeeeep, code-based.)
Thank you for confirming my thoughts on the whole HP, MP, and ailment curing stuff, Ethan. Although I do consider it odd that Exorcising Border isn't a composite stat heal.
It comes up in a number of places. Enemies and characters, for instance, have an extra parameter right after their affinity list with a value that looks affinity-like (100 in many cases). Spellcards set their element through a series of flags (isElementFIR, isElementSPI, isElementPHY...) stored as an array of 9 values, not 8. I haven't found one that uses the 9th one yet but then again, I've only looked at a few spellcards so far.
Here's the Kedama (http://textuploader.com/oyxu)'s affinities and resistances. Note that resistances also seem to have a few extra parameters...
Hmm. Then, I'm not sure. "MAG affinity" is just my guess - it could also be some supar secreat hiddan nazi elemunt!!!, or something that was simply dummied out. All's I know for sure is that it exists in memory, is defined for characters/enemies/spellcards, and can be used (but isn't necessarily used) by all affinity-related code.
Thanks. :) I figured I may as well share my discoveries - so far, the wiki is kind of sparse as to the specifics of each spellcard/skills/formulas so I'd be glad to help work out the game's mysteries.
Well, I would say something about said element, but...
Of the 9, have you counted Maribel's Void element?
I do believe that Starxsword brings up a good point about the "Void element".
I'll just leave this here and turn in for the night.
Spellcard formulas, part 1 (http://textuploader.com/oyg3)
A few things are missing and I can't guarantee I haven't made any mistakes (it's like, 5 am; cut me some slack :( ). I hope to have every character done in a day or two, and maybe I'll tackle the enemy spellcards after that. A few quick notes...
- (ailment/debuff) chance may or may not be a percentage value. I really don't know how the game uses this; I just got out the info that was in the spellcards. But the higher, the more likely the effect/debuff will be caused.
- Some effects are handled through code. I have a good idea where, but I don't have enough information to reverse-engineer those parts yet. I've left a TODO where appropriate.
- Some spellcards have a second version used by the boss version of their owner. The stats are often different. I left a note to that effect in the relevant cases (mainly, Youmu, Komachi, Kaguya).
- All damaging spellcards have a resistance of 50% DEF or MND so far. Dunno if that's always the case. Also, increasing their level will always increase the multiplier by 5% in addition to other possible effects.
More tomorrow. G'nite!
A few things to that...
1. Either 50% DEF or 50% MND, hm? If this is indeed true, then... Ah! I see. The programmers must of did that as a shortcut for the sake of skills that allow you to ignore a part of the enemy defenses, as well as to simplify the calculations for the system in general. And on the one bright side to this, it means that there are no spells that account for the both DEF and MND, which would make certain attacks seemingly more viable for the sake of attacking enemies(read: every spell that uses both ATT and MAG stats for attack damage). On the other hand, it actually confuses me that some people don't use composite stats for their spells when they clearly have skills and possibly stats to back up such a thing. Oh well...
2. It seems like some of the info from the wiki is wrong, should this stuff be accurate. White Album, in particular, is a card that was said to increase in power via level up, when the info here says that it does not. And most of the buff spells seem to appear much lower than the wiki would indicate. That seems strange to me...
3. I had noted from the Kedama file that there is a resistance to debuffs to Accuracy and Evade, meaning that it's possible to debuff them in the first place. However, the only way that player characters can do that(or buff up said stats, for that matter) is via skills, not spells, so I don't understand as to why they're there in the first place. The bright side to this is that depending on how the code for buffs and debuffs work, it may be possible to make it so that you can buff and debuff ACC and EVA via parameter editing, which would be rather interesting to see in terms of results...
Again, as everyone else is saying thank you for the info, Ethan.
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On the subject of Stat Debuffs and such, this is just my theory on it. Also when you say Kedama, I'm guessing you mean the regular Kedama you encounter on the first couple floors and not Small Kedama. [Just noticed there were 2 on that floor and I was thinking Small Kedama, then I noticed the stronger one]
Kedama has the following resistances to debuffs.
00097380 [this+0x0198] = 10 ; - Attack
0009738D [this+0x019c] = 0
00097397 [this+0x01a0] = 10 ; - Defense
000973A4 [this+0x01a4] = 0 ;
000973AE [this+0x01a8] = 10 - Magic
000973BB [this+0x01ac] = 0
000973C5 [this+0x01b0] = 10 - Mind
000973D2 [this+0x01b4] = 0
000973DC [this+0x01b8] = 10 - Speed
000973E9 [this+0x01bc] = 0
000973F3 [this+0x01c0] = 10 - Accuracy
00097400 [this+0x01c4] = 0
0009740A [this+0x01c8] = 10 - Evasion
00097417 [this+0x01cc] = 0
As a note, I almost got confused since I followed it from the text mentioning the stats having individual defenses, however, one thing that's been noticed by others and myself is that certain stats tend to get debuffed a lot more compared to others, so each stat having its own debuff resistance isn't a surprise. On realization, I realized the line with DBF was probably for Attack, with the last one being Evasion. As such this could mean the the Rating for it in the Beastiary is just based off the Total of all stat debuff resistances combined. On another note, this is for enemies only, not party members, who I'm guessing have the same Individual Stat Debuff Resistance as the Debuff Resistance Stat (I.E 50 Debuff Resistance = 50 to all stats)
Now for the numbers part. The 10 is pretty much similar to having a 10 on the Resistance stat itself. Since there's 8 stats, that's a total of 80, which is...well low, but it's not the lowest since it's a Red X, not Dark Red. While I want to compare that number with the Elemental Affinities, I don't think that would be accurate since I'd need a bit more numbers, mainly from enemies with Dark Red X, Triangle, Circle, Double Circle, and Star Affinities, and even Resistances as well. I'm not sure if the 0 after means anything, but I'm tempted to say it's how much that stat and such is altered, though this makes little sense due to Elemental Affinities also having it without any method of lowering, so I'm guessing I'm just overthinking it and it means nothing.
With that said, I remember someone mentioning how an enemy had a Resistance to something, not sure what, that capped out at 1000. If we use this with Stat Debuffs, then it would probably be something like 125 for each stat (125 * 8 = 1000), meaning the 10 is a 10% Chance to resist that Stat reduction. So why 125? Reisen's Intense Vertigo skill. While that number totaling at -25 for the skill is probably insane, it would make sense as a means to prevent certain stats from being debuffed. This could also apply to skills that increase chances of inflicting other ailments as well. Just another theory until actual numbers are found. I could also be wrong in that it's not subtracted from but lowers it by a %, due to what I mentioned at the start about a Resistance capping at 1000. On the other hand, the 1000 could just easily be a method for the Devs to say "No, you're not inflicting this on boss, at all".
Ok so now let's look at the Party Members. I'll only look at Kasen since it's the easiest one for me to find. Using the formula for Kasen's Higekiri's Cursed Arm, we have these numbers
Higekiri's Cursed Arm
- ((ATK 165%) - (DEF 50%)) * (1.60 + 0.05 * Lv)
- TRR power = 16000
- TRR chance = 100
- ATK Debuff = -18
- ATK chance = 100
- SPD Debuff = -18
- SPD chance = 100
Ok, so Chance = 100 would probably mean it's, by default, a 100% chance of inflicting it with 0 Resistance. Now let's look at the Kendama's resistances for Terror, Attack Debuffs, and Speed Debuffs.
Kedama
0009733B [this+0x0180] = 10 ; - Terror
00097348 [this+0x0184] = 0
00097380 [this+0x0198] = 10 ; - Attack
0009738D [this+0x019c] = 0
000973DC [this+0x01b8] = 10 - Speed
000973E9 [this+0x01bc] = 0
Using those 10s, we subtract that from the chance, so now it's a 90% Chance for each effect to activate. But there's another thing we need to look at, and for HCA, that's TRR power. Now I'm not entirely sure about this one, especially since....well..
Ok so I hacked Kasen's stats so they're at 1 Attack so she can't kill the Kedama. With HCA, I was able to inflict Terror. With Kasen at 10,000 Speed and a party member having 9999 so they'd go directly after, I was able to get 2 different results from the Terror Power upon inflicting.
Kedama 1: 15392 Terror
Kedama 2: 14592 Terror
So similar to dealing damage, there's some RNG being thrown in to alter the final output. To note, I tested a few more times and never hit 16000. At the same time however, I hit a Great Tree's Enormous Wasp with Terror, and the number was 17600. When comparing it's Terror resistance, it was a Dark Red X, compared to the Kedama, which was just a normal Red X. This makes sense though.
But now this kinda questions my earlier theory about the Resistance levels. It could just be Stat Debuffs use a different method to determine it
I also feel that Elemental Affinities use a different method to determine it's ranking.
Looking through the Elemental Affinities, Fire and Dark are 66 and everything else is at 100. On the Beastiary page, the enemy is Neutral to those 6 elements but Fire and Dark are a Red X. Using my current Beastiary and checking all the Elemental Affinities, I've found only 2 enemies with a Dark Red X, and they're both from Post Game (Emerald Nut and Green Ooze, both with a Fire Weakness). Considering 100 is Neutral, and the Kendama's 66 for Fire and Dark is just a Red X, I'd probably say that Dark Red X, Red X, Red Triangle, and Neutral are around the following values.
0-49 = Dark Red X
50-74 = Red X
75-99 = Triangle
100 = Neutral
Obviously without any numbers just yet for Circle, Double Circle, and Star, I can't compare those properly.
Again, this is all just theorizing. Once more numbers show up and such, maybe we can figure it out more.
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The 9th affinity is almost assuredly Void, yes.
I hadn't considered the possibility of those extra ailment resistances being DBF. That does explain why they're mostly all the same, except for bosses.
Regarding the representation for dbf in Keine's school...
For lv42 Tenshi, her dbf is listed as "○", which is between 50 and 74 (from an earlier code dive I did)
Her specific dbf values are:
60
0
60
0
100
0
0
I can't average these out to be within that range, even if I ignore acc/eva. However, I also don't recall seeing any kind of special handling for dbf at all to give it a different range. It's possible that the listed dbf resistance is just for the first value, which should be atk.
Similarly, Remilia's debuff stats:
0
32
0
32
32
32
32
Most of hers are pretty good... except atk and mag. And she has a red X according to Keine, so yeah I'm pretty sure it's just using the first value and ignoring the rest.
Damage is apparently calculated as follows for most commands...
((ATK * CommandATK% + MAG * CommandMAG%) - (DEF * CommandDEF% + MND * CommandMND%)) / (Affinity/100)
For instance, Rabies Bite (http://textuploader.com/oyxk) has 150 CommandATK% and 50 CommandDEF%, so the formula for it would be...
((ATK * 1.5) - (DEF * 0.5)) / (PHYAffinity / 100)
It should be noted that there appears to be a hidden affinity. The game has values for 9 of them. It looks as though the "hidden" affinity is for magic attacks (ie, melee attacks by characters whose MAG exceeds their ATK). Why the game hides it is unclear...
But, there's also a multiplier applied somewhere in there (not sure where yet; either to the damage portion or (most likely) to the (damage - defense) portion... or to the whole formula; Rabies Bite's is 150% for instance) which generally goes up by 5% / additional spellcard level. In addition, there's some degree of randomization I'm unclear on. Sudden Impulse multiplies the min variance by 10 * Lv and the max variance by 5 * Lv (or maaaaybe the other way around), for instance. And of course, passive skills can have an impact on a lot of this (ex, Enhanced Normal Attack adds 30 to the CommandATK or CommandMAG, depending on which type of attack is being carried out).
I'll probably have the specifics later on. I'm busying myself with the skills at the moment so it's likely to turn up soon enough...
Awesome! All of that info is great. Does the code for Parsee's nuke just remove trr, or also increase damage based on the strength of the trr effect?
Seems kinda odd that everything is 50% def or mnd. LoT1's damage formulas had a decent variance, as I recall.
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Seems kinda odd that everything is 50% def or mnd. LoT1's damage formulas had a decent variance, as I recall.
As I had said before, I believe that the programmers did so as a means to simplify the damage calculations. And on the bright side, that means that composite attacks are far more useful in this game than in LoT1, since none of the spells target both defensive stats.
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Then my alternate thought is the more likely one. 0 = Dark Red X, 1+ = Red X.
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Then my alternate thought is the more likely one. 0 = Dark Red X, 1+ = Red X.
No, I already got the exact values for that. It's probably in the last thread somewhere, but also on the wiki.
Ailments:
| x - 0-9 | x - 10-19 | △ - 20-29 | -- - 30-49 | ○ - 50-74 | ◎ - 75-99 | ★ - 100+ |
Affinities:
| x - 0-33 | x - 34-65 | △ - 66-99 | -- - 100-139 | ○ - 140-199 | ◎ - 200-299 | ★ - 300+ |
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Thank you for confirming my thoughts on the whole HP, MP, and ailment curing stuff, Ethan. Although I do consider it odd that Exorcising Border isn't a composite stat heal.
I believe it was MAG in Labyrinth 1, so there is no reason to change it. Reimu isn't completely composite, she favors MAG over attack by a bit. Of course, because of how Composite works, it sucks to be a composite attacker. Her formula's gotten better, since it doesn't allow both Mind and Defense to work against it.
Seems kinda odd that everything is 50% def or mnd. LoT1's damage formulas had a decent variance, as I recall.
I am pretty sure the formulas for Labyrinth 1 is the same way. The wiki just consolidates it for easier reading.
Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana formula is something like 魔力反映率(Magic) = 300, 精神反映率(Mind) = 50, 攻撃力倍率(???) = 100, ダメージ倍率(damage multiplier) = 300, 行動カウント値(Gauge) = 4,000. So, something like (3.00 MAG - 0.50 MIND) * 3 Damage Multiplier. Wiki just makes it 900 MAG - 150 MIND.
edit: correction on my multiplication
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Misdirection is 50% def, 25% mnd.
Silent Selene is 25% mnd
Phoenix Spread Wings is 25% def
Icicle fall 50/50
Perfect freeze same
Falling Leaves of Madness is 10% mnd
Owotoshi Harvester 30% mnd
Flashing Cherry Blossoms 25% def
Okay, there's a lot more 0's and 50's than I remember, but there are definitely other values in there.
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I'm pretty sure it's just using the first value and ignoring the rest.
This would certainly explain why in the fight against the Guardian and his crystals you can easily land multiple debuffs on all of the enemies, even though two of the crystals have a star resist to debuffs according to Keine's bestiary.
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I've added the spell card formulas to the wiki.
Speaking of the wiki, anyone know how to standardize the column lengths in tables? They look horrendous at the moment and its really bothering me.
So, something like (3.00 MAG - 0.50 MIND) * 3 Damage Multiplier. Wiki just makes it 900 MAG - 100 MIND.
That can't be the way the formula is written, otherwise the wiki is just plain wrong.
Assuming 100 MAG and 100 MND, the first formula yields 750 as the damage whereas the wiki's description would yield 800.
This is assuming you pulled those numbers from a real example and didn't make a typo when transcribing them.
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That can't be the way the formula is written, otherwise the wiki is just plain wrong.
Assuming 100 MAG and 100 MND, the first formula yields 750 as the damage whereas the wiki's description would yield 800.
This is assuming you pulled those numbers from a real example and didn't make a typo when transcribing them.
Wiki lists 900 - 150, which is correct. He made a mistake in multiplying and wrote -100 instead of -150.
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Yes, I multiplied it wrong. Wow, I can't believe that I can't do 0.5 x 3.
Okay, there's a lot more 0's and 50's than I remember, but there are definitely other values in there.
I didn't realize there were other numbers. But you are right, there are other numbers, even if it is rare. Though, I should have remembered Minoriko's skill, since it has defense penetration.
This is assuming you pulled those numbers from a real example and didn't make a typo when transcribing them.
These numbers are gotten from the DataBase directory of the Touhou Labyrinth Special Disk. Just open the index.html with any web browser and go to the third square column. That lists the spellcards and their damage formulas. If you are interested, second column is a list of enemies.
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Annnnd.... done. Pardon possible human errors,
mad science can only do so much for me until I figure out how to make my brain bionic some of it was written in the wee hours of morning with little coffee to assist me...
LoT2 Character Spellcard Formulas (http://textuploader.com/oy2r)
Next up, gonna take a quick little day-long break or so to get some work done on another project and I'll be back with the subclass spellcard formulas. :V
Of the 9, have you counted Maribel's Void element?
Aha! That sounds likely. Thanks for that, I'm pretty sure that's what the 9th affinity is for. It makes sense, given that everyone seems to have 100 as a value for it and Mari's spellcard isn't supposed to be defendable.
1. Either 50% DEF or 50% MND, hm?
It turns out a FEW spellcards have different values (often, 25%, though the late-game characters have different values too). But MANY spellcards use 50%, so as a rule of thumb we could say that every 2 point of DEF or MND reduces damage by 1 before the multiplier is applied.
2. It seems like some of the info from the wiki is wrong, should this stuff be accurate. White Album, in particular, is a card that was said to increase in power via level up, when the info here says that it does not. And most of the buff spells seem to appear much lower than the wiki would indicate. That seems strange to me...
I'm guessing the wiki didn't always take into account the spellcard level when testing. Or, it could be taken from an earlier patch. Nitori's PVM, for instance, is nowhere near like what the wiki describes.
The bright side to this is that depending on how the code for buffs and debuffs work, it may be possible to make it so that you can buff and debuff ACC and EVA via parameter editing, which would be rather interesting to see in terms of results...
Hmm. Let's try this...
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2ewz39k.png)
Yup. Skills can have ACC/EVA buffs and debuffs. Cool.
Awesome! All of that info is great. Does the code for Parsee's nuke just remove trr, or also increase damage based on the strength of the trr effect?
I haven't played around with the "code" portion of spellcards but the data suggests that damage is increased in the code when the target has TRR. By default, it doesn't do any exceptional damage, so something else has to tweak the numbers at some point.
I've added the spell card formulas to the wiki.
Thank you for your work. :) The wiki can certainly stand to have more specific info in it.
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Annnnd.... done. Pardon possible human errors, mad science can only do so much for me until I figure out how to make my brain bionic some of it was written in the wee hours of morning with little coffee to assist me...
LoT2 Character Spellcard Formulas (http://textuploader.com/oy2r)
Thank you for your work. :) The wiki can certainly stand to have more specific info in it.
Taking my own little break and then finishing the rest of the spellcard formulas on the wiki.
I've figured out a temporary solution to the ugliness of the varying table sizes but a more proper solution would still be nice.
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Annnnd.... done. Pardon possible human errors, mad science can only do so much for me until I figure out how to make my brain bionic some of it was written in the wee hours of morning with little coffee to assist me...
LoT2 Character Spellcard Formulas (http://textuploader.com/oy2r)
.......I thought it was Christmas but it turns out it's my birthday too? Either time is flying faster than I thought or something else.
Kinda got confused when I started seeing RES but then I realized you meant MND. Definitely surprised at some of these formulas though.
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I haven't played around with the "code" portion of spellcards but the data suggests that damage is increased in the code when the target has TRR. By default, it doesn't do any exceptional damage, so something else has to tweak the numbers at some point.
No, her nuke does 0 damage if the target isn't afflicted with terror. What I'm asking is 'does a strong trr do more damage than a weak trr'. And her nuke does incredibly exceptional damage. I get the feeling we're talking about different spells.
Also, hina's Misfortune spell debuffs EVERYONE, including party members. Party members should get a weaker effect, however. Should mark that as todo, at least.
...Giga flare does not completely ignore mnd. It uses 5%. Huh. That explains things - I recall trying to use it against a boss with skyhigh mind and was amazed at the 0 damage.
Thanks for all of this. Since you're doing helpful stuff, I'll work on making a complete dump of all enemy info, with exact stats and the multiple copies. This is probably going to be too much information for a simple table, so if someone wants to volunteer to make simple HTML pages for it or something, that'd be greatly appreciated. Otherwise I might just leave it as JSON or something.
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.......I thought it was Christmas but it turns out it's my birthday too? Either time is flying faster than I thought or something else.
It's mad science, man. Time is but a funny looking roadcone as far as it's concerned(and no, that's not supposed to make sense, that's the entire point).
Annnnd.... done. Pardon possible human errors, mad science can only do so much for me until I figure out how to make my brain bionic some of it was written in the wee hours of morning with little coffee to assist me...
LoT2 Character Spellcard Formulas (http://textuploader.com/oy2r)
Ah, yes. The info that we all have been seeking. I do believe that you sir deserve an internet.
It turns out a FEW spellcards have different values (often, 25%, though the late-game characters have different values too). But MANY spellcards use 50%, so as a rule of thumb we could say that every 2 point of DEF or MND reduces damage by 1 before the multiplier is applied.
Interesting. I'll check the listings to see which is which, then.
I'm guessing the wiki didn't always take into account the spellcard level when testing. Or, it could be taken from an earlier patch. Nitori's PVM, for instance, is nowhere near like what the wiki describes.
Ah, so the wiki's out of date. Sigh.
Hmm. Let's try this...
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2ewz39k.png)
Yup. Skills can have ACC/EVA buffs and debuffs. Cool.
I presume that you mean spells, yes? If so, then I'm glad that it's possible to put that in there.
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.......I thought it was Christmas but it turns out it's my birthday too? Either time is flying faster than I thought or something else.
The passage of time is relative. The closer you approach the speed of light, the more time slows down for you. It's sorta like one-way time travel into the future. Thus, I would suggest reducing your monitor's brightness slightly. Failing that, I wouldn't mind a couple of winning lottery numbers now that you're there then... :)
Kinda got confused when I started seeing RES but then I realized you meant MND. Definitely surprised at some of these formulas though.
Oops, my bad. Yeah, any "RES" in there should be "MND" (Nazrin's spellcards, and a few others). I seem to have gotten confused with another game at some point.
No, her nuke does 0 damage if the target isn't afflicted with terror. What I'm asking is 'does a strong trr do more damage than a weak trr'. And her nuke does incredibly exceptional damage. I get the feeling we're talking about different spells.
I don't have the code-related effects yet so I can't answer your question at the moment. Given that the spellcard stores values to calculate damage, I'm guessing the code will only do something like checking for TRR and setting the final damage value to 0 if it's not present. (And yeah, I think I was looking at/thinking of the wrong spellcard when I posted my first reply; sorry about that). I'll keep this one in mind for when I'll start reverse-engineering spellcard code.
Thanks for all of this. Since you're doing helpful stuff, I'll work on making a complete dump of all enemy info, with exact stats and the multiple copies.
If it's any help, the "Kedama" example I provided isn't the first enemy in the list. The enemy data starts one entry before it, at 00096760 ("Small Kedama").
I presume that you mean spells, yes? If so, then I'm glad that it's possible to put that in there.
Basically, I modified Nitori's PVM so that one of the buffs would be the buff "after" SPD, and ACC came up. The way Mari's DIY Border skill works is similar, so there may be several additional different types of bonuses hiding away in there (probably used by some passive skills or something; those can alter the spellcard info and add effects or change values around).
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Do you have a list of what each skill for each character class does specifically like what you just did with the spell cards?
I was mainly wondering how Sakuya's skill to ignore "some" defense worked.
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Do you have a list of what each skill for each character class does specifically like what you just did with the spell cards?
I was mainly wondering how Sakuya's skill to ignore "some" defense worked.
That's most likely for another day. I'd say we at least give him a bit of a break for that.
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That's most likely for another day. I'd say we at least give him a bit of a break for that.
I didn't know if you guys had it already or not, but if not that is cool, we get it when we get.
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Guys, I've noticed that Meiling's formula for Mountain Breaker is actually fairly impressive...
0277 Mountain Breaker
Lv 1 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.60
Lv 2 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.65
Lv 3 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.70
Lv 4 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.75
Lv 5 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.80
I do believe that she can actually hit stuff with this.
On the other hand...
0278 Colorful Rain
Lv 1 (-0.40 ATK + MAG) * 1.00
Lv 2 (-0.40 ATK + MAG) * 1.05
Lv 3 (-0.40 ATK + MAG) * 1.10
Lv 4 (-0.40 ATK + MAG) * 1.15
Lv 5 (-0.40 ATK + MAG) * 1.20
0279 Healer
Lv 1 (-0.16 ATK + MAG) * 1.00, Cures PSN, PAR, SIL
Lv 2 (-0.16 ATK + MAG) * 1.05, Cures PSN, PAR, SIL
Lv 3 (-0.16 ATK + MAG) * 1.10, Cures PSN, PAR, SIL
Lv 4 (-0.16 ATK + MAG) * 1.15, Cures PSN, PAR, SIL
Lv 5 (-0.16 ATK + MAG) * 1.20, Cures PSN, PAR, SIL
It appears that she still uses a composite formula for her healing. How good are these without her Natural skill, I wonder?
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Guys, I've noticed that Meiling's formula for Mountain Breaker is actually fairly impressive...
0277 Mountain Breaker
Lv 1 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.60
Lv 2 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.65
Lv 3 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.70
Lv 4 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.75
Lv 5 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.80
I do believe that she can actually hit stuff with this.
On the other hand...
0278 Colorful Rain
Lv 1 (-0.40 ATK + MAG) * 1.00
Lv 2 (-0.40 ATK + MAG) * 1.05
Lv 3 (-0.40 ATK + MAG) * 1.10
Lv 4 (-0.40 ATK + MAG) * 1.15
Lv 5 (-0.40 ATK + MAG) * 1.20
0279 Healer
Lv 1 (-0.16 ATK + MAG) * 1.00, Cures PSN, PAR, SIL
Lv 2 (-0.16 ATK + MAG) * 1.05, Cures PSN, PAR, SIL
Lv 3 (-0.16 ATK + MAG) * 1.10, Cures PSN, PAR, SIL
Lv 4 (-0.16 ATK + MAG) * 1.15, Cures PSN, PAR, SIL
Lv 5 (-0.16 ATK + MAG) * 1.20, Cures PSN, PAR, SIL
It appears that she still uses a composite formula for her healing. How good are these without her Natural skill, I wonder?
When in doubt, try it out with Satorin~
Or just hex edit the game ???
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When in doubt, try it out with Satorin~
Or just hex edit the game ???
Just remember that Satori copies spell cards at their level 0 stuff so the spells will do less damage than normal.
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A few questions about Iku and the Hexer subclass...
0297 Whiskers of the Dragon God
Lv 1 + 56% SPD, -60% DEF/MND 140%
Lv 2 + 60% SPD, -68% DEF/MND 130%
Lv 3 + 64% SPD, -76% DEF/MND 120%
Lv 4 + 68% SPD, -84% DEF/MND 110%
Lv 5 + 72% SPD, -92% DEF/MND 100%
Apparently, the debuff for this spell increases as it levels up, so this spell is clearly meant to be used with Flexibility. My questions are this...
1. Does the Hexer's skill to strengthen debuffs affect the debuffs on this spell?
2. When Flexibility activates, is the debuff removed from Iku? Because if not, then that would mean that Hexer's Conversion could be used here to great effect, helping her as it does for Chen, and unlike Chen, Iku can actually use the HP recovery to help her stay alive, which would help her immensely for the sake of being a support type(not to mention that gaining the power to debuff Mind synergies with Heavenly Maiden's Blow(doubles the effect of Mind debuffs when Iku attacks with anything)).
When in doubt, try it out with Satorin~
Or just hex edit the game ???
The reason why I ask is mainly because I can't do so, due to severe hardware issues(all the computers that I own are utter dinosaurs that don't meet the requirements to run the game itself). I am attempting to remedy that via getting a new computer set up, but until then, well...
And the reason why I haven't said this til now is due to flat out embarrassment. :blush:
I hate not having a compy that can run most games and won't overheats like a freaking hotplate(I own laptops, which is why overheating is an issue), making me have to use two external fans and a cooling pad just to keep it under control. Sigh(and the reason for the Windows 8.1 symbol showing up is because I'm using a loaner, meaning that I don't own this compy, so I can't put the game on it). Sorry for me complaining like that, I hope I didn't annoy anyone...
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A few questions about Iku and the Hexer subclass...
0297 Whiskers of the Dragon God
Lv 1 + 56% SPD, -60% DEF/MND 140%
Lv 2 + 60% SPD, -68% DEF/MND 130%
Lv 3 + 64% SPD, -76% DEF/MND 120%
Lv 4 + 68% SPD, -84% DEF/MND 110%
Lv 5 + 72% SPD, -92% DEF/MND 100%
Apparently, the debuff for this spell increases as it levels up, so this spell is clearly meant to be used with Flexibility. My questions are this...
1. Does the Hexer's skill to strengthen debuffs affect the debuffs on this spell?
2. When Flexibility activates, is the debuff removed from Iku? Because if not, then that would mean that Hexer's Conversion could be used here to great effect, helping her as it does for Chen, and unlike Chen, Iku can actually use the HP recovery to help her stay alive, which would help her immensely for the sake of being a support type(not to mention that gaining the power to debuff Mind synergies with Heavenly Maiden's Blow(doubles the effect of Mind debuffs when Iku attacks with anything)).
No the debuff is still there for Hina and other characters that work off debuffs.
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No the debuff is still there for Hina and other characters that work off debuffs.
Then Iku can use Hexer Conversion from the debuff? That would really be good if she could.
I'm editing the wiki as we speak, so knowing whether or not the Hexer's skills would benefit her would help out a lot. I hope that I'm not being pushy by asking here...
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The debuffs are still on her as debuffs and interact with the Hexer skills.
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If it's any help, the "Kedama" example I provided isn't the first enemy in the list. The enemy data starts one entry before it, at 00096760 ("Small Kedama").
Oh, I already have notes on all the skills. It's just a matter of actually reading them all and formatting them properly.
Just remember that Satori copies spell cards at their level 0 stuff so the spells will do less damage than normal.
Actually, according to one of the first examples, the level for damaging spells is only taken into account if it's greater than 1. So I think Lv0 and Lv1 will do the same amount of damage.
Can't actually find that example, though. I believe it was Rabies Bite, but explained in more detail (almost) directly from the assembly.
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Every single spellcard. battle command, enemy skill, etc. in the game (http://pastebin.com/anfihg0A)
So, I spent the last couple of hours flat-out writing a custom assembly decompiler for the spellcard data. A few things are still missing and the formatting needs to be adjusted, but for the time being this is taken straight from the game itself and is guaranteed to be accurate. This doesn't cover the individual handler functions for each spellcard (which is what gives them their more unique effects) and one or two function got cut-off by the function-end-detection algorithm (mainly, Yukari's Shikigami Ran spellcard, which doesn't have its Chen/Ran bonus handling code).
I'll post a better listing tomorrow. My main goal tonight this morning (oh shit, it's this late already...?) today was to have something that can reverse-engineer the spellcard setup functions for me, making it pretty and figuring out what everything means comes after. :D
Do you have a list of what each skill for each character class does specifically like what you just did with the spell cards?
I was mainly wondering how Sakuya's skill to ignore "some" defense worked.
It may take a while before I can get all of them. Unlike spellcards, passive skills are handled on a need-to-handle basis all throughout the code. I've got a few of them but it isn't much.
Sudden Impulse changes the minimum randomization from 90 to (90 - 5 * level) and the maximum randomization from 110 to (110 + 10 * level).
Enhanced Normal Attack adds 0.30 to the ATK or MAG calculation (eg, 1.00 ATK -> 1.30 ATK).
Area Normal Attack changes the targetting flag to "entire enemy party".
...Yeah. 'sabout all I have right now... >_> Passives are next on my list though.
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Checks for big box small box formula*
It looks like the others, what causes it to power scale at random?
Well dem, its still a mystery for me :V
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Hm, what does mul mean?
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Hm, what does mul mean?
Multiplier.
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Alright, I'm pretty much done. As I said, all I have is a huge JSON dump, which is hard for humans to read, but very easy to parse through (most) programming languages.
I can reformat it into HTML or something, but only if someone writes up a template to account for everything, including the multiple sets of stats. I am absolutely terrible with HTML.
Here's a sample, after formatting it with www.jsonlint.com : http://pastebin.com/w3ZWkAi5
(on a related note, shouldn't that be "Balloon Bird"?)
The full dump: http://puu.sh/d97t4/077b16c613.txt
This will obviously not include any special abilities / stat changes monsters have. Balloon birds, for example, get skyhigh eva while they're in the air, but this just reports 10 EVA. Plenty of bosses have similar changes.
There's a lot of unknown fields. No idea what they do, and I haven't bothered trying to examine them at all. One might be a boss flag, e.g. to reduce Yuyuko's ATB affects. I should have all of the really important ones, however.
There are multiple sets of stats per monster. This is for the multiple possible configurations, e.g. Balloon Birds when you first encounter them and again when you see them in the postgame. I should have all the possible sets, but haven't exactly strictly verified this.
There's an ID field, but I'm not positive it's any kind of ID. They do appear to be mostly unique... except Golden Orb of Forward Time and Dark Orb of Forward Time share the same "ID". This isn't the case for the other shadow bosses or even the other orbs. It could be a link to AI script, but I imagine there'd be a lot more overlap.
Finally, not every monster has 100 void resistance: The Second Sun has 200.
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Here we go. A cleaned up version of my earlier post.
Setup info for all spellcards and battle commands (http://180upload.com/hren86ylo7dj)
As I said, all I have is a huge JSON dump, which is hard for humans to read, but very easy to parse through (most) programming languages.
I can reformat it into HTML or something, but only if someone writes up a template to account for everything, including the multiple sets of stats. I am absolutely terrible with HTML.
Nice work! I've taken the liberty of writing up a little browsing tool for that data.
enemy_info.zip - 25 KB (http://180upload.com/tmg9ty7yylzj)
(Edit: Stand-alone version (http://180upload.com/0t70jmoghpj6))
It's a little rushed but it gets the job done. Works on Firefox/Chrome. Doubtful about IE though (then again, I haven't updated mine in ages so who knows.)
You only seem to be missing the item info. Calls to 000078b3 set this up; the first parameter on the stack is the item ID and the second, the drop rate * 100.
It looks like the others, what causes it to power scale at random?
That's handled through the effect code specific to that spellcard, not its setup code. I doubt my decompiler can work with that yet (it's been written specifically for the spellcard setup code) but we'll get there. :)
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So I'm code illiterate. What do I do?
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You only seem to be missing the item info. Calls to 000078b3 set this up; the first parameter on the stack is the item ID and the second, the drop rate * 100.
Aha. I knew I was missing that, but I didn't know where it was. Working on updating it now to include that.
Also I figured out what a lot of the unknown fields are; they're for the monster types. I'll add those in too.
So I'm code illiterate. What do I do?
Well, you can use EthanSilver's static HTML page, or try his info browser (haven't tried that yet myself). Or you can just open up the JSON text file, select a line, and paste it into jsonlint.com
You need to put a { in front of everything, delete the , at the end (if it's there), and add a } to the end. Probably should've mentioned that; oops. It'll be a bit hard to read, but all the information is there.
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I also downloaded the hex editor, so should I do anything with that?
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Odd the dump didn't include 6F and 9F Tenshis. Maybe their data is somewhere else?
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I realized that I forgot to do the spell card formulas for the last few characters on the wiki.
I also just realized that the preliminary spell card formulas are all slightly off due to how the multiplier is calculated instead of the static 0.05 bonus that was listed the last time the info was dumped. Going to finish up the rest of the formulas and fix up the ones that are already done after I finish eating.
Edit: For Kaguya's DEF and MND debuff on Buddha's Stone Bowl I'm having trouble making sense of the code.
buffDEF.power: (buffDEF.power - (level + (((level - 1) - this) * 2) + 17))
buffDEF.chance: (((level - 1) * 5) + buffDEF.chance + 80)
buffMND.power: (buffMND.power - (level + (((level - 1) - buffDEF.chance) * 2) + 17))
buffMND.chance: (((level - 1) * 5) + buffMND.chance + 80)
I have no idea what the variable "this" refers to nor do I understand why the chance of applying a DEF debuff affects the strength of the MND debuff.
My best guess would be that "this" refers to the chance for applying a DEF debuff but that still doesn't explain why the calculations for DEF and MND are different (why use two variables if the value its being used for is the same?) or why that is even a part of the calculations.
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I hope I'm not interrupting here or something but... after finishing LoT2's main game I wanted to pick up LoT1 again and finish that but I'm finding myself unable to do so properly because the random encounters murder me and I don't progress a lot that way. (And really I'm just not really having a lot of fun.) Anything I can do about that? (I'm pretty sure I'm at the right level but I'm kind of flopping around right now)
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Depends on what floor you're on. I know certain floors are just better for grinding due to how easy it is to kill the enemies compared to a floor or 2 higher.
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Whoops for some reason I forgot to write what floor I'm on. I thought I did.
I'm on 16F, though I still have the Great Stamp to deal with at some point. I remember getting somewhat frustrated with the game starting 14F because of the random encounters :/
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More code I'm not 100% certain about:
if random(2) == 0
buffATK.power: (buffATK.power - 25)
buffATK.chance: (((level - 1) * 5) + buffATK.chance + 80)
if random(2) == 0
buffDEF.power: (buffDEF.power - 25)
buffDEF.chance: (((level - 1) * 5) + buffDEF.chance + 80)
if random(2) == 0
buffMAG.power: (buffMAG.power - 25)
buffMAG.chance: (((level - 1) * 5) + buffMAG.chance + 80)
if random(2) == 0
buffMND.power: (buffMND.power - 25)
buffMND.chance: (((level - 1) * 5) + buffMND.chance + 80)
if random(2) == 0
buffSPD.power: (buffSPD.power - 25)
buffSPD.chance: (((level - 1) * 5) + buffSPD.chance + 80)
If the random function is what I think it is (generate a random int from 0 to the parameter, inclusive), then doesn't that effectively reduce the chance for landing a debuff to a third of the chance that is being calculated in the if statement?
Sounds rather straightforward but I'd rather another opinion before making the assumption. Don't want to have to go back and fix it.
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Whoops for some reason I forgot to write what floor I'm on. I thought I did.
I'm on 16F, though I still have the Great Stamp to deal with at some point. I remember getting somewhat frustrated with the game starting 14F because of the random encounters :/
Hmm the enemies don't seem to be that strong on 16F compared to 15F. Still, if you're having issues with 16F enemies, maybe go to 15F and see how you do. The EXP different between the 2 is about 100-200 depending on the enemy(Lowest on 15F is 540, while lowest on 16F is 700).
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random(2) should be "generate a random number that is either 0 or 1"
But yes. It looks like "There is a 50% chance to have a (80-100)% chance of an Atk buff" and then the same for all the other stats
Odd the dump didn't include 6F and 9F Tenshis. Maybe their data is somewhere else?
...Oops. No, it's just because of how I was storing the data. The multiple Tenshis all have the same name, so each new one overwrote the old. Well, that's another thing to fix.
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random(2) should be "generate a random number that is either 0 or 1"
But yes. It looks like "There is a 50% chance to have a (80-100)% chance of an Atk buff" and then the same for all the other stats
...Oops. No, it's just because of how I was storing the data. The multiple Tenshis all have the same name, so each new one overwrote the old. Well, that's another thing to fix.
In that case should also check Ame-No-Murakumo as well, since his Post-Game stats show but not Main Game
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random(2) should be "generate a random number that is either 0 or 1"
But yes. It looks like "There is a 50% chance to have a (80-100)% chance of an Atk buff" and then the same for all the other stats
If that's how the random function works in this case then I feel like the parameter here should have been 100 and not 99:
(Code to determine whether or not Mystia's Mysterious song cures Paralysis and / or Heavy)
if (level * 4 + 60) > random(99)
ailmPAR.power: (ailmPAR.power - 1)
ailmPAR.chance: (ailmPAR.chance + 10000)
if (level * 4 + 60) > random(99)
ailmHVY.power: (ailmHVY.power - 1)
ailmHVY.chance: (ailmHVY.chance + 10000)I'll just assume you're correct and finish editing that bit accordingly.
Edit: Finished adding the Spellcard formulas for the girls' spellcards. Going to take a break and come back later to handle subclass spells and whatever else Ethan included in this code dump.
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If that's how the random function works in this case then I feel like the parameter here should been 100 and not 99:
(Code to determine whether or not Mystia's Mysterious song cures Paralysis and / or Heavy)
if (level * 4 + 60) > random(99)
ailmPAR.power: (ailmPAR.power - 1)
ailmPAR.chance: (ailmPAR.chance + 10000)
if (level * 4 + 60) > random(99)
ailmHVY.power: (ailmHVY.power - 1)
ailmHVY.chance: (ailmHVY.chance + 10000)I'll just assume you're correct and finish editing that bit accordingly.
Edit: Finished adding the Spellcard formulas for the girls' spellcards. Going to take a break and come back later to handle subclass spells and whatever else Ethan included in this code dump.
Hmm, nope. Looks like it is 0-2. Which means 1/3 chance of each debuff. Tested it with a bit of debugging on what I assume is the random function, and it was returning 0, 1, and 2. Then I did actual testing with Hina's maxed skill against an enemy with 0 debuff resistance. 11 trials, landed 23 debuffs. Average of 2.1 debuffs per use, which is reasonably close to 1/3 (1.7). It'd probably be closer if I had done more trials.
Edit:
And I've finished my changes.
Updated file: http://puu.sh/danpH/cd48f20f08.txt
As before, this is a JSON dump, and not very useful to human readers. I've changed it to be an array instead of a dictionary, since enemy names aren't unique.
I've also added monster types (which removed several Unknown fields) and item drops (Thanks to EthanSilver)
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I've started a thread (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17698.0.html) in the Touhou Projects subforum for all the reverse-engineering stuff. It seems like it's starting to take over this thread and discouraging/impeding others who want to discuss the gameplay. This will also be a good opportunity to keep everything we work on in the first post where it will be easily accessible rather than having to dig through several pages worth of text-walls.
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I realized that I forgot to do the spell card formulas for the last few characters on the wiki.
I also just realized that the preliminary spell card formulas are all slightly off due to how the multiplier is calculated instead of the static 0.05 bonus that was listed the last time the info was dumped. Going to finish up the rest of the formulas and fix up the ones that are already done after I finish eating.
Edit: For Kaguya's DEF and MND debuff on Buddha's Stone Bowl I'm having trouble making sense of the code.
buffDEF.power: (buffDEF.power - (level + (((level - 1) - this) * 2) + 17))
buffDEF.chance: (((level - 1) * 5) + buffDEF.chance + 80)
buffMND.power: (buffMND.power - (level + (((level - 1) - buffDEF.chance) * 2) + 17))
buffMND.chance: (((level - 1) * 5) + buffMND.chance + 80)
I have no idea what the variable "this" refers to nor do I understand why the chance of applying a DEF debuff affects the strength of the MND debuff.
My best guess would be that "this" refers to the chance for applying a DEF debuff but that still doesn't explain why the calculations for DEF and MND are different (why use two variables if the value its being used for is the same?) or why that is even a part of the calculations.
Short definition, "this" refers to the current object that is in scope of the code, but in this case it is a bit confusing.
Considering how the code is laid out, without looking at anything else, it looks like it should either be the current buffDEF.power, or maybe buffDEF.chance since that is what the MND one uses.
If you look at where the code is currently placed, and what else is around it, you can get more context to what it is.
The Code could be "wrong" too.
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What editor are you guys using to open these files?
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Short definition, "this" refers to the current object that is in scope of the code, but in this case it is a bit confusing.
Considering how the code is laid out, without looking at anything else, it looks like it should either be the current buffDEF.power, or maybe buffDEF.chance since that is what the MND one uses.
If you look at where the code is currently placed, and what else is around it, you can get more context to what it is.
The Code could be "wrong" too.
Just want to explain this last thing before I stop talking about the code.
I'm well aware of what "this" usually means in code (hi there Java) but there's not enough context to infer what it actually means in this case. That is the first and only instance of "this" in the spellcard dump which probably means there's other code somewhere else that's giving the spellcard its effects like Ethan has mentioned. I figured as much, but I thought I'd pose the question to the two other programmers in the thread first.
Working on adding subclass spellcards now.
What editor are you guys using to open these files?
Quoting the start of all this:
Replace your exe with this (http://180upload.com/xf9qj41gnoxh). (Edit: Actually, just drop it in the same folder as your exe. Don't replace it. Just in case. ;) ) I wrote a quick little hack to give her an extra command (seemed to work okay when I tested it...). Currently it's using Rabies Bite (08 02) as a place-holder. You can change it by changing the value at 0x06A34C with a hex editor to any of the values in the hacking guide I posted earlier. Feel free to give her something fun. :)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2a84ufd.png) (http://i62.tinypic.com/k9ayat.png)
I'm not sure what's causing you trouble... She just reads out the values stored in every front-line character's command listings. If you change a character's commands, the commands she has access to also change accordingly.
Enemy commands differ from character commands. They're contained in a different list. From my experimenting, giving a character a skill ID that doesn't refer to a character skill just crashes the game because they're nowhere to be found in the handler function (http://pastebin.com/pvLKqZDj). Junk data ends up being used when trying to load up their name/info/data and the border between execution and crashes collapses pretty hard. So enemies must use enemy skills and characters must use character skills; there's no way to mix and match them. Too bad... :P
Hmm? Are you using a decompiler to get that function? Or part of IDA? There's a couple of things I'd like to find out about the game, but trying to trace through the asm in OllyDbg is suffering.
I'm a youkai hacker. I use ndisasm to dump a listing (ndisasm -u thlabyrinth2.exe > disassembly.txt) and then go through it by hand. I also code quick-and-dirty little tools to facilitate some things (in this case, a string-extractor that just takes the highlighted offset in my text editor and copies the string it points to to the clipboard - same tool I used when working on LoT-Rebirth (though with different offsets)). And, of course, I have no idea where I'd be without a text editor that supports regular expressions.
I'll be glad to point you off in the right direction if you're looking for anything in particular. I haven't found everything yet but depending on what you're trying to figure out about the game, maybe I can help...
On topic, is it just me or are the post-game boss level requirements completely insane? Even 30+ levels over them I get annihilated before I get a chance to do much. I'm starting to wonder if there's much of a point to it other than bragging rights (by the time you get the last 2 characters, anyhow, the post-game's nearly done so they practically seem to be there for novelty purposes only...) Granted, diva-Aya can make short work of the post-game bosses but that's just cheating. :D
I'm just using Ethan's code dump to add formulas to the wiki as well as try to make sense of how the game works.
Edit: And finished adding subclass spellcard formulas. Looking into LoT Rebirth at the moment but that will be saved for after I finish my third playthrough of LoT2, trying to enjoy the story this time. Also, Ethan, your links in your signature are broken.
Edit2: Anyone remember how many Shikigami events there were on 9F to reduce Ran's Shikigami's strength? The wiki apparently can't decide between three and four and I don't remember the number of events there were.
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Edit2: Anyone remember how many Shikigami events there were on 9F to reduce Ran's Shikigami's strength? The wiki apparently can't decide between three and four and I don't remember the number of events there were.
You can reduce their strength? Interesting, I never bothered with that, since I didn't know, and breezed right through the fight.
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There are 4 barriers you must deactivate to reduce her strength.
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What the hell is wrong with the Wasp's Shadows? They're so fast I can't get my damn attackers in jesus christ.
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At this point you're gonna need to grind lots to put money in your resistances. Are you doing this on challenge level btw?
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What the hell is wrong with the Wasp's Shadows? They're so fast I can't get my damn attackers in jesus christ.
You need to get your money stats to the same as your levels or higher.
You might want to go through your subclasses and redo your items too.
Also, the first 3 shadows are weak to death.
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What the hell is wrong with the Wasp's Shadows? They're so fast I can't get my damn attackers in jesus christ.
They're both somewhat vulnerable to Shock, poison wasp moreso. Try magician Orin + Reisen out on the field to reduce ailment resistances. Even with his speed, Orin might be able to keep him locked down.
What are good spells for Satori to use, now that we have all of the formulas? Narrow confines of Avici and Gathering and Dissipating are known. What about Galaxy Stop? The formula on that actually seems fairly decent, in addition to the devastating status effects.
Or perhaps composite attacks, to take advantage of her nearly identical atk and mag stats? Reimu's Fantasy Seal has good multipliers, so it should be good in Satori's hands.
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What are good spells for Satori to use, now that we have all of the formulas? Narrow confines of Avici and Gathering and Dissipating are known. What about Galaxy Stop? The formula on that actually seems fairly decent, in addition to the devastating status effects.
Or perhaps composite attacks, to take advantage of her nearly identical atk and mag stats? Reimu's Fantasy Seal has good multipliers, so it should be good in Satori's hands.
Mountain Breaker
Lv 1 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.60
Since this skill only counts 25% of the target's defense, it might be a bit stronger than NCoA and GaD. It doesn't carry any extra effects though and it's single target, but still worth mentioning I think.
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Mountain Breaker
Lv 1 (2.00 ATK - 0.25 DEF) * 1.60
Since this skill only counts 25% of the target's defense, it might be a bit stronger than NCoA and GaD. It doesn't carry any extra effects though and it's single target, but still worth mentioning I think.
I think that's actually 50% of defense. Considering every other spell formula seems to have .5 DEF, that's what I'm thinking.
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Giga Flare
Lv 1 (1.24 MAG - 0.05 MND) * 1.24
Deadly Swallowtail Lance
Lv 1 (1.48 MAG - 0.25 MND) * 1.60, DTH 24000 33%
Hyperactive Flying Object
Lv 1 (1.20 MAG - 0.25 MND) * 2.00
Galaxy Stop
Lv 1 (1.44 MAG - 0.20 MND) * 1.44, PAR 8000 80%, SHK 100 88%, SIL 12000 80%
Most have 0,5 modifier yes, but there seems to be a few with less out there.
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Yeah I know that. And the description of Giga Flare said that it ignores mind. About 90% I think it said. And Right there in formula it shows 124% MAG - 5% MND... hm.
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Yeah I know that. And the description of Giga Flare said that it ignores mind. About 90% I think it said. And Right there in formula it shows 124% MAG - 5% MND... hm.
Well even if it were 10%, it is pretty good against most enemies.
I never used Okuu post game, where the big def/mnd increase is, so I don't know how good it is there but I found Okuu in LoT2 to be a bit lackluster in general.
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She honestly isn't. During main game, she isn't so good, but post game she comes fairly decentish good. You see the thing about Utsuho is that she needs to stay out for a long time. So she needs tankiness to be able to get stacks of overheat. Giga Flare is a good damaging spell, does good consistent damage to enemies without high MYS resistance. I would say Utsuho is kinda expensive, then again everyone is post game. As I said before, she needs turns. So you try to optimize her for HP, SPD, and MAG. You're gonna have to put some extra monies into her HP and resistances so that she can have better survivability. A healer is good too. Lastly, she needs to have the subclass Transcendent to make the most of her stats and tankiness.
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She honestly isn't. During main game, she isn't so good, but post game she comes fairly decentish good. You see the thing about Utsuho is that she needs to stay out for a long time. So she needs tankiness to be able to get stacks of overheat. Giga Flare is a good damaging spell, does good consistent damage to enemies without high MYS resistance. I would say Utsuho is kinda expensive, then again everyone is post game. As I said before, she needs turns. So you try to optimize her for HP, SPD, and MAG. You're gonna have to put some extra monies into her HP and resistances so that she can have better survivability. A healer is good too. Lastly, she needs to have the subclass Transcendent to make the most of her stats and tankiness.
I increased her stats like I did everyone else, which is at least 200 on main stats and 20 for resistances now, and I still didn't like her.
I just think she needs better spell combinations.
With Hijiri Intense Nuclear Reaction is pointless, and Hell's Tokamak damage is pretty meh in general.
Giga Flare is nice, but gets costly.
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I wouldn't call Intense Nuclear Reaction pointless. It's still a damaging spell, although it can lower your resistances which is dumb.
If Intense Nuclear Reaction didn't come with the negative of lowering your armor, or at least upped to damage to justify the armor shredding, then yeah it'd be fine.
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It's pointless in that you can just have another buffer boost Okuu's mag, and not need to deal with the reduced defenses.
I think it'd be more useful as a special effect rather than a plain buff, much like her overheating and fighting spirit. Use Intense and get a stack of the effect that raises final damage by 10% and increase incoming damage by 10% as well, or something to that effect. That way it wouldn't be completely superceded by a competent buffer.
On the other hand, I think Futo is getting something vaguely like that. Probably without the extra incoming damage.
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It's pointless in that you can just have another buffer boost Okuu's mag, and not need to deal with the reduced defenses.
I think it'd be more useful as a special effect rather than a plain buff, much like her overheating and fighting spirit. Use Intense and get a stack of the effect that raises final damage by 10% and increase incoming damage by 10% as well, or something to that effect. That way it wouldn't be completely superceded by a competent buffer.
On the other hand, I think Futo is getting something vaguely like that. Probably without the extra incoming damage.
Wait what Futo what. What is this about Futo I hear.
(Also since everyone ever has been finding the formulas for stuff, did anyone get the formula for the hit chance of a spell?)
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Futo and Shou are the two absolutely confirmed characters for the upcoming expansion pack.
I think the blog post explains Futo's gimmick. There's probably a translation in the previous LoT2 thread... although I have no idea where.
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How the hell do you get past the rocks on 9F Extra and 14F Extra? I always get game-crashing bugs on it (and I just lost like 2 hours/2 Floors worth of exploration... and 14F is stupid to navigate too) and I... kind of don't want that to happen.
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Make sure you have the latest English version. I believe there were game-breaking bugs there that got fixed.
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Make sure you have the latest English version. I believe there were game-breaking bugs there that got fixed.
See, that's the problem... I already HAVE the latest english version. It just gives me an error when I activate the said events :/
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There was an update that fixed that.
You can get around it by selecting Ignore, then holding down the I key to continuously Ignore it after it keeps popping up.
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Not even Diva!Aya hax can get past the Azure Giant's Shadow... guess I'll have to settle for grinding next.
The worst part is that after the Azure Giant it's not gonna get any better because then only the Magatama and Mirror are left... and then Shredding Amnesieri. Oh boy, that thing sounds like the stuff of nightmares.
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If you're okay with using Diva Aya you might want to give Gambler Flandre a go. Just set her up for maximum damage and plan your party to get her buffed up and ready before the bosses get their first turn and you can trivialize 75% of the post game bosses.
Horribly cheesy but gets the job done. :P
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That's another thing I'm using... but isn't doing very well against this boss either ;_;
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What exactly is your problem with the boss?
I never had any particular difficulty with this guy, though Knowledge was a different story,
He is weak to Fire & Spirit attacks, classified as human & demon, and can be debuffed decently.
Use those attributes to your advantage.
Try to Stack as much MP on Flan as possible, buff her up, have her attack, and give her instant turns with Aya and Yukari if you must.
If you beat everything else up till this point, you should be able to do it. The last 2 bosses are a huge step up though.
What level are your stats at on average?
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Knowledge I just tried to stand my ground with Reisen and Komachi, switching in attackers that hopefully make quick work of it after 2 Ether Flares...
This one's a different story. It's melting faces, fast. I feel like Cochlea Dance barely makes any difference because of its speed. I've tried debuffing it too but there's no really noticable difference.
My issue is that Komachi gets melted and then I have no one left who doesnt get oneshot by Rasetsu Fist or his normal attacks, even.
When I got Eiki in (unbuffed) she dealt 99k damage which was pretty decent so I'm keeping her. Wanted to try Rumia but haven't gotten to that.
But yeah the issue is I can't really safely buff my attackers without getting pinned down by Rasetsu Fist.
My library levels are 100+ usually on the stats that the character makes use of and on most people 20(+) on affinities.
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Is there still no way to play LoT2 in fullscreen? Playing it in this tiny window surrounded by my desktop kind of kills the immersion, and its too much work to change the resolution of my desktop every time I want to play.
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Scratch that. It loves to start spamming Great Roar and Earth Shake all of a sudden. This is sooo stupid.
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Is there still no way to play LoT2 in fullscreen? Playing it in this tiny window surrounded by my desktop kind of kills the immersion, and its too much work to change the resolution of my desktop every time I want to play.
Not that I know of, but stretching the window to the maximum is anything but tiny in my opinion.
Try to Stack as much MP on Flan as possible, buff her up, have her attack, and give her instant turns with Aya and Yukari if you must.
This is the way of the cheap kill. :)
I've posted my setup for (ab)using Flandre before, here's the short version again: Sanae (Herbalist), Aya (Enchanter), Yukari (Monk) and Flandre (Gambler). You can get Flandre the Herbalist boost effect and ~40% ATK buff before the boss's ATB bar moves from 5000. And since Aya (hopefully) is a lot faster than the boss, you can give Flandre another turn before the boss even has its first. Doesn't really matter how hard the boss hits with a setup like that...
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Oh, I completely forgot about stretching the borders of the window, I haven't played in a while. Still doesn't do much for the giant empty spaces on each side of my monitor.
Also, should my text be running off the screen like http://puu.sh/djPus/ad71240682.jpg ?
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I didn't even have to use Flandre for the boss. You see, from my exp this is how the boss AI works.
He won't actually rebuff if his buffs get too low. I did this with Hina, he had 50% buffs and he didn't try to rebuff. At one point he go to the debuff range and he still didn't rebuff.
I think it's because his buffing is dependent on his HP, and since I defeated him fairly quickly, I never got to see him rebuff. (I blew him up with Kaguya)
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You see, from my exp this is how the boss AI works.
He won't actually rebuff if his buffs get too low. I did this with Hina, he had 50% buffs and he didn't try to rebuff. At one point he go to the debuff range and he still didn't rebuff.
I think it's because his buffing is dependent on his HP, and since I defeated him fairly quickly, I never got to see him rebuff. (I blew him up with Kaguya)
The AI for all enemies and bosses (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17698.0.html) has been dumped. It's been there for a while now, for that matter. :/
Azure Giant's Shadow
-------------------------
On turn 1:
Target Self with L.10 Azure Shining Body
Once, If HP <= 50%:
Target Self with L.10 Azure Shining Body
Once, After HP <= 50% Azure Shining Body:
Target A with L.1 Azure Shining Light
Otherwise:
30%: Target A with L.1 Attack
30%: Target D with L.1 Rasetsu Fist
20%: Target A with L.1 Great Roar
20%: Target A with L.1 Earth ShakerThe boss will open with Azure Shining Body Lv 10 (giving it a +100% to its stats). Once it hits 50% HP, it'll use it again and follow it up immediately with Azure Shining Light Lv 10.
On any other turn, it will either attack physically, use Great Roar, or Earth Shaker with roughly equal chance (attacks being sliiightly more likely than the other two). It will also use Rasetsu Fist against the first available target about 1/3rd of the time (making a high-HP tank invaluable). If you can save up your really powerful attacks/buffed characters for the 50% HP mark, you can try to blow away all of its health and avoid getting ASL'ed by it but that's a lot of HP to remove...
Also, should my text be running off the screen like http://puu.sh/djPus/ad71240682.jpg ?
Make sure you're running the game with AppLocale. For me, at least, dialog runs off the end of the screen without it, so that may be what you're experiencing.
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Oh, I completely forgot about stretching the borders of the window, I haven't played in a while. Still doesn't do much for the giant empty spaces on each side of my monitor.
Also, should my text be running off the screen like http://puu.sh/djPus/ad71240682.jpg ?
Mine does too, AppLocale didn't help either
Knowledge I just tried to stand my ground with Reisen and Komachi, switching in attackers that hopefully make quick work of it after 2 Ether Flares...
This one's a different story. It's melting faces, fast. I feel like Cochlea Dance barely makes any difference because of its speed. I've tried debuffing it too but there's no really noticable difference.
My issue is that Komachi gets melted and then I have no one left who doesnt get oneshot by Rasetsu Fist or his normal attacks, even.
When I got Eiki in (unbuffed) she dealt 99k damage which was pretty decent so I'm keeping her. Wanted to try Rumia but haven't gotten to that.
But yeah the issue is I can't really safely buff my attackers without getting pinned down by Rasetsu Fist.
My library levels are 100+ usually on the stats that the character makes use of and on most people 20(+) on affinities.
Try to make your levels 1.2 times the challenge level, and affinities 25+.
I used 2-3 debuffers to keep him debuffed all the time and that worked well.
How are you buffing yourself?
If Komachi is dieing that fast, sounds like you don't have her set up correctly.
You might have to redo her subclass and items, I just pumped in as much HP as I could and that worked for most fights.
Using Eirin can give her 150% of her max health as well.
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Wait, I checked Avatar-Ame no murakumo AI
Ame-no-Murakumo's Right Arm
-------------------------
If Ame-no-Murakumo is dead:
Target Self with L.1 Second Coming Of The Divine Sword
Ame-no-Murakumo's Left Arm
-------------------------
If Ame-no-Murakumo is dead:
Target Self with L.1 Second Coming Of The Divine Sword
If i am reading this correctly, the arms can resurrect the sword if it somehow dies first? What the heck?
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Wait, I checked Avatar-Ame no murakumo AI
Ame-no-Murakumo's Right Arm
-------------------------
If Ame-no-Murakumo is dead:
Target Self with L.1 Second Coming Of The Divine Sword
Ame-no-Murakumo's Left Arm
-------------------------
If Ame-no-Murakumo is dead:
Target Self with L.1 Second Coming Of The Divine Sword
If i am reading this correctly, the arms can resurrect the sword if it somehow dies first? What the heck?
I don't see how you could beat the Sword first, since the arms are so easy to kill and make the fight way easier when dead.
But I guess it could happen.
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I don't see how you could beat the Sword first, since the arms are so easy to kill and make the fight way easier when dead.
But I guess it could happen.
Anti-blowup Sword immediately shenanigans.
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Try to make your levels 1.2 times the challenge level, and affinities 25+.
I suppose I could do that... I need to grind a little anyway considering what's up ahead.
I used 2-3 debuffers to keep him debuffed all the time and that worked well.
He's too fast to get Reisen in to debuff him, and I have to remove his other buffs with Tenshi first who gets destroyed even by his non-Rasetsu Fist attacks :/
How are you buffing yourself?
Iku -> Byakuren, then Byakuren everyone else... if she survives. Probably really inefficient but I haven't been bothered to change it.
If Komachi is dieing that fast, sounds like you don't have her set up correctly.
She has 56k HP and 305 PHY Affinity. I don't think that can be THAT wrong.
You might have to redo her subclass and items, I just pumped in as much HP as I could and that worked for most fights.
Using Eirin can give her 150% of her max health as well.
I might try that if I can get her in the fray... who knows.
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You should give everyone more HP with your level-up bonuses. Really.
Just giving them 60 points to HP will almost triple their HP.
Eirin's overhealing also works with Subclass skills, so if anyone can take a single hit, Eirin can heal them for about 5 times their max HP.
You can try Enchancer Iku, Gambler Flandre, Strategist Aya, and Monk Yukari(with fast dash) to have a 50% chance to land 3 almost-fully buffed nukes before the boss even acts.
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Ended beating him by... overlevelling. Well, I had to do it sooner or later anyway.
So then I go try the Mirror and... with a small def debuff, and with 80% Buffs on Flandre, Starbow Break dealt 0 damage.
... What?
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... What?
The Mirror of Darkness has 200 DRK resistance and obscene amounts of DEF (300k - twice that of the Giant). Surprisingly, 200 resistance still makes DRK one of the more useful elements to use against it: MYS/DRK/SPI have 200, PHY has 150, everything else (except VOI) has 300...
I haven't actually fought it, but it seems like defense-ignoring attacks are the way to go. It doesn't have too much health but its crazy-high defensive stats are something you'll have to consider. Poison might work, but its resistances are sky-high and the only spell that could work is Comet on Earth (and even then, the chance is very low so it's a very unreliable approach...)
(Edit: Or maybe Nitori's Super Scope 3D. Its formula is better and it's a PHY attack so maybe that'll help? Haven't tried it...)
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(300k - twice that of the Giant)
The developer has gone absolutely nuts, I see.
Super Scope barely scratches it... I forgot if that was with or without buffs, though. Sheer Force Marisa deals 21k with some minor MAG Buffs on Master Spark.
I... really don't know how to murder this thing. I scratch it but it destroys me in return.
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I had a lot of trouble with Mirror too. I wouldn't recommend Flandre; go with Eiki. Rumia is good too; she can't hit as hard as Eiki's def piercing nuke, but she has piercing attack so even moonlight ray will do half decend damage.
Mirror is critically weak to SIL, which will drop his MND (and also mag? Although I can't recall if he uses mag or not anyway). In my experience, Yuuka could do decent damage to him if he had SIL and a decent MND debuff, since she's very easy to keep at 100% buffs.
It looks like I beat him at around level 160, and I recall it being tough there. Good luck.
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I had a lot of trouble with Mirror too. I wouldn't recommend Flandre; go with Eiki. Rumia is good too; she can't hit as hard as Eiki's def piercing nuke, but she has piercing attack so even moonlight ray will do half decend damage.
Mirror is critically weak to SIL, which will drop his MND (and also mag? Although I can't recall if he uses mag or not anyway). In my experience, Yuuka could do decent damage to him if he had SIL and a decent MND debuff, since she's very easy to keep at 100% buffs.
It looks like I beat him at around level 160, and I recall it being tough there. Good luck.
I have both Eiki and Rumia but I haven't tried them yet. Who else is good? I'd assume Kaguya because of her defense-piercing, and I'll try to stick Discarder to him with Reisen.
Also, level 160 is... about 15 levels above my party. Ah, the overlevel is real.
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Well, 160 is where I ended up. I completely forgot about a few sections of the postgame content I had access to, so I got a few extra levels above what I intended from exploring them. From looking at my forum posts, I only lost a single person at that level, so it should be very doable at yours. Just a little bit rougher.
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I have both Eiki and Rumia but I haven't tried them yet. Who else is good? I'd assume Kaguya because of her defense-piercing, and I'll try to stick Discarder to him with Reisen.
Also, level 160 is... about 15 levels above my party. Ah, the overlevel is real.
If you get your library stats for HP, main attack stat, and main defense stat to the same as your level or more, 1.2 of level is good, you should be good for a while.
I used Eiki, Rumia, Kasen, Flan, Nitori, and Yugi for damage to beat the mirrior, but they really need to go through a rebalancing of the post game.
It varies too much from boss to boss, and even for the trash. After you get past the Shadow Bosses, it is actually much easier, which is counter intuitive.
If you are having trouble with the Mirrior, you can try the other one that is left on the other side of the map. I beat that one first out of the 2.
You just have to prepare for when it hits around 1/4 health, as its speed becomes insane and will murder you quickly.
As for Reisen and Hina not being fast enough, redo their stats you get from levels and put some or all of them into speed, since that is free to reallocate.
I did this for Aya, Yukari, Hijiri, and Sanae also. They became super broken that way for utility, and that is what you need going forward for all bosses.
You won't really need them for damage any more anyways.
You can probably do the first 2 deformed bosses now, or at least one of them. I forgot what the requirement for the 2nd one was...
I know the 3rd you need to clear all the Shadow Bosses first.
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If you are having trouble with the Mirrior, you can try the other one that is left on the other side of the map. I beat that one first out of the 2.
You just have to prepare for when it hits around 1/4 health, as its speed becomes insane and will murder you quickly.
The answer is to use flan. I honestly don't see how that boss fight is even possible without her. Certainly not in the shadow boss rush.
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Can anyone tell me where on earth Flandre's first event is on 12F? I'm thinking my game might be bugged and it won't unlock.
I thought maybe I'd done it without realizing, but I've beaten 30 FOEs and have 300+ BP with China/Remi/Sakuya/Patch, and there's nothing past the 60 achievements rock, so that can't be it. I did find an event referring to Flandre on 11F, but she doesn't show up herself. I have Kaguya, Mokou, and pretty much every character besides Flandre now. Just can't figure out what's wrong.
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The answer is to use flan. I honestly don't see how that boss fight is even possible without her. Certainly not in the shadow boss rush.
Well, Flan becomes so broken in Post Game with her scaling.
That's why I think a general rebalance is in order, which might happen with the expansion.
Make the obviously OP characters not so much, make other characters that aren't good better, and then make the post game not so ridiculous.
I hope the difficulty at the start of the expansion is around that of the LoT1 expansion, manageable.
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The answer is to use flan. I honestly don't see how that boss fight is even possible without her. Certainly not in the shadow boss rush.
Well there's kind of an issue when a highly-buffed Flan deals 0 damage on a def-debuffed enemy.
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The thing I did vs. Mirror was kind of desprerate, yet very satisfying. I had a Yukari and Ran on the front line, would switch out Chen and had Ran concentrate so that Chen would get her glorious stats, then switch her out. I would then have a Reisen and Yuugi on the front line with Yukari and Ran so that heavy could be inflicted (Reisen is toxicologist so heavy affliction could be easier) Once I inflicted heavy I would switch back out Chen and if Silence was also inflicted I'd switch to Kaguya or something and proceed to kill it as quickly as possible.
And yeah, you DON'T need Flan for the fight, I had her as a backup incase things went doo doo, but I did not need her at all.
When I fought Mirror during the boss rush I think I just used Kasen + Reisen + Flandre to quickly wipe it out because I had previously got three people killed earlier by Orb explosion. Managed to destroy it before it got to use Great Catastrophe or Calamity w/ever. If they didn't get wiped out I wouldn't have had any need for Flan. Though tbh I used her because I wanted to get the boss rush done as quickly as possible.
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Well there's kind of an issue when a highly-buffed Flan deals 0 damage on a def-debuffed enemy.
I was talking about magatama, not mirror.
Magatama has less defense (256k vs 300k), and is weak to dark (150% damage) compared to mirror's 50% damage.
Far more relevantly is that the magatama continually boosts its speed in addition to healing itself every turn. (I thought it got a huge speed boost in the final phase rather than continual improvements, but that's not what EthanSilver's dump says). As a result, you absolutely want to defeat him quickly. And Flan is absolutely perfect for that role.
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I was talking about magatama, not mirror.
Magatama has less defense (256k vs 300k), and is weak to dark (150% damage) compared to mirror's 50% damage.
Far more relevantly is that the magatama continually boosts its speed in addition to healing itself every turn. (I thought it got a huge speed boost in the final phase rather than continual improvements, but that's not what EthanSilver's dump says). As a result, you absolutely want to defeat him quickly. And Flan is absolutely perfect for that role.
Well yeah but we all were talking about the Mirror so that seemed kinda out of place. Of course Flan is good against the Magatama but against the Mirror... yeah.
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Anti-blowup Sword immediately shenanigans.
Just tested it, The arms will infinitely Resurrect the sword has long has one arm is alive (Nuked it twice and it came back a third time)
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Well yeah but we all were talking about the Mirror so that seemed kinda out of place. Of course Flan is good against the Magatama but against the Mirror... yeah.
And Spiffspoo had suggested fighting Magatama first. Which is what I was responding to.
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Honestly, the Mirror I only beat through Diva Aya plus Shikieiki spam, it's that tough. The Magatama you could also beat by supercharging Rumia (a lot of skill points in magic, ikubuffs, etc) and have her spamming Dark Side of the Moon - that's what I did, and if you spam it fast enough it won't have the chance to counter (because of the super high delays at 75%, 50%, and 25%), as well as using Flan of course.
Really, it's just a suggestion though.
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I didn't think either Mirror or Magatama were that difficult, but here are some strategies that work on both if people are having trouble.
Start by having Aya boost Hina, who should use Biorhythm. Hina needs maxed Biorhythm and Hexer class to increase its efficacy (and reduce its effect on allies). Aya doesn't need anything, but Monk is helpful.
Rinnosuke with the appropriate High MND / DEF Boost maxed in the leftmost slot as a Strategist. Use Eirin as a Healer with all skill points boosting the efficacy of the subclass spell to overheal him (and others). She'll need some work in her magic stat.
The Magatama, by the way, is actually pretty easy if you just bring back out the same single-target dark attackers you used against Tenshi (Kasen, Kogari, etc) with the appropriate skill maxed. The Mirror is a little more difficult, and you'll need to be able to adapt if you lose Rumia or Kaguya in the opening rounds. That means debuffing the enemy (Hina) while buffing yourself enough to deal damage. Having Rinnosuke move Suika in and out after Missing Power so she can spam the nature mountain-throwing attack makes a big difference. Nitori is a big player here as well; I kept her in practically the whole fight. Be sure to overheal your key attackers with Eirin in this fight--since it's harder to deal damage to the Mirror, you can't afford to let go of your offensive options easily.
...now someone please tell me how to unlock Flandre's first event on F12 :/
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(http://i.imgur.com/oLumDVx.png)
Literally took me an entire hour. I'm not even joking.
Would've been a perfect victory too if Eiki didn't get hit. The mirror only got 3 turns in, two of them being Great Calamity.
Never. Again. Neeeever. That was the worst boss I have ever fought in the history of Labyrinth of Touhou asdhgldhjdskldfsh
(atleast the magatama isnt going to be THAT much of a sore)
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Never. Again. Neeeever.
You still got Enhanced Boss Rush left with that fun boss fight waiting. :P
A party of Byakuren, Reimu, Reisen and Eiki with full defensive setup against the Mirror's attacks will negate most of the damage so that Reimu can easily keep up with the damage. Then it's just a matter of spamming Eiki's attack until the boss dies (I was doing ~100k damage per hit at challenge level).
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Just a warning, when you do the boss rush, do not let the last of the three orbs to explode. Seriously.
@Blues who is Kogari
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Kogari is the second boss of undefined phamous opera-singer.
She's the Phantom of said opera and an expert at frightening people through her "beautiful" singing. She is actually a Tsukumogami of the mask she is wearing.
(Sorry, I had to. I know it's just a silly typo. :V)
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Just a warning, when you do the boss rush, do not let the last of the three orbs to explode. Seriously.
Time to rely on Aya's lucky dodges then :P
Also I cannot outdamage the magatama for some reason. Slightly-def debuffed Magatama took 0 damage from buffed/herbed flandre with rank 5 Starbow Break and 30k Atk. What the heck is going on.
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and 30k Atk. What the heck is going on.
I don't quite remember what the challenge level for Magatama is, but I checked with my Flandre leveled down to 150 and removing the bonus ATK points and all "ultimate" equips and still ended up with 41k ATK. This is with 140 ATK levels in Voile, so I'm not sure how you're setting your main nuker. That 10k difference is enormous in the final damage with the multiplier Flandre's skills have.
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I don't quite remember what the challenge level for Magatama is, but I checked with my Flandre leveled down to 150 and removing the bonus ATK points and all "ultimate" equips and still ended up with 41k ATK. This is with 140 ATK levels in Voile, so I'm not sure how you're setting your main nuker. That 10k difference is enormous in the final damage with the multiplier Flandre's skills have.
My Flan probably isnt level 150... but thats weird. She has ATK in Voile as high as that and I gave her some of my best equipment so... hm.
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Just a warning, when you do the boss rush, do not let the last of the three orbs to explode. Seriously.
@Blues who is Kogari
Well uh
Kogari is the second boss of undefined phamous opera-singer.
She's the Phantom of said opera and an expert at frightening people through her "beautiful" singing. She is actually a Tsukumogami of the mask she is wearing.
Yes. This. Of course. My uncle is ZUN and she is the planned second boss of Touhou 15: Undefined Phamous Opera-Singer. You can recruit her by getting Akyuu's BP to 1000.
...for serious though, how do I recruit Flandre. Please help.
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Well uh
Yes. This. Of course. My uncle is ZUN and she is the planned second boss of Touhou 15: Undefined Phamous Opera-Singer. You can recruit her by getting Akyuu's BP to 1000.
...for serious though, how do I recruit Flandre. Please help.
You need to have all SDM characters with 300 BP and something like 50 achievements?
This link has more info
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Characters/Characters_5
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I didn't think either Mirror or Magatama were that difficult, but here are some strategies that work on both if people are having trouble.
Start by having Aya boost Hina, who should use Biorhythm. Hina needs maxed Biorhythm and Hexer class to increase its efficacy (and reduce its effect on allies). Aya doesn't need anything, but Monk is helpful.
Rinnosuke with the appropriate High MND / DEF Boost maxed in the leftmost slot as a Strategist. Use Eirin as a Healer with all skill points boosting the efficacy of the subclass spell to overheal him (and others). She'll need some work in her magic stat.
The Magatama, by the way, is actually pretty easy if you just bring back out the same single-target dark attackers you used against Tenshi (Kasen, Kogari, etc) with the appropriate skill maxed. The Mirror is a little more difficult, and you'll need to be able to adapt if you lose Rumia or Kaguya in the opening rounds. That means debuffing the enemy (Hina) while buffing yourself enough to deal damage. Having Rinnosuke move Suika in and out after Missing Power so she can spam the nature mountain-throwing attack makes a big difference. Nitori is a big player here as well; I kept her in practically the whole fight. Be sure to overheal your key attackers with Eirin in this fight--since it's harder to deal damage to the Mirror, you can't afford to let go of your offensive options easily.
...now someone please tell me how to unlock Flandre's first event on F12 :/
From memory, I think there were events on 10F and 11F with her before you were able to meet her on 12F. Make sure you've completed the events in those areas first. I don't believe this is on the wiki, and I could be wrong, but it's worth a shot.
Otherwise, she should be a bit to the east and a long way south, behind the green thing that needs you to operate the switch.
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You need to have all SDM characters with 300 BP and something like 50 achievements?
This link has more info
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Characters/Characters_5
I have those things, but I never found the first event with her. She isn't behind the rock.
From memory, I think there were events on 10F and 11F with her before you were able to meet her on 12F. Make sure you've completed the events in those areas first. I don't believe this is on the wiki, and I could be wrong, but it's worth a shot.
Otherwise, she should be a bit to the east and a long way south, behind the green thing that needs you to operate the switch.
Ok, excellent. I did find an event on 11F while I was trying to find the sake I'd bought. There's probably one on 10F still that I missed; I'll go hunt for it.
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Still no idea who Kogari is supposed to be. What hair accessory does she have? I know every Touhou minus PC-98 midbosses...
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Pretttty sure I'm ruining some cruel people's fun here, but I'm pretty sure kogari is just a typo for kogasa, and they're having fun driving you nuts.
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What hair accessory does she have?
I'm pretty sure kogari is just a typo for kogasa
Kogasa doesn't have a hair accessory. Who is this mystery character?
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It's Yumemi everyone. Yumemi confirmed for LoT2 next expansion.
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(http://i.imgur.com/lmWFKqb.png)
I FINALLY DID IT
(but i have like no proper equipment for them help)
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(http://i.imgur.com/lmWFKqb.png)
I FINALLY DID IT
(but i have like no proper equipment for them help)
I set Mari for pure Damage, but in the end I used her for healing and boost.
I don't like Renko as much as I did in LoT1.
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Mari's damage just plain isn't good. Maybe if you used her reverse-buff thing to full silliness on the bosses where it's relevant, though, and the void-elemental spell is pretty nice in randoms. Her support isn't half bad, though, so she's got uses; Chaotic Border actually has pretty strong status effects and her heal-buff is nice at max level.
Renko is pretty great because the several buff-wiping bosses mean Charge continues to be a highly relevant skill, and she's an amazing tank.
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Mari's damage just plain isn't good. Maybe if you used her reverse-buff thing to full silliness on the bosses where it's relevant, though, and the void-elemental spell is pretty nice in randoms. Her support isn't half bad, though, so she's got uses; Chaotic Border actually has pretty strong status effects and her heal-buff is nice at max level.
Renko is pretty great because the several buff-wiping bosses mean Charge continues to be a highly relevant skill, and she's an amazing tank.
Question about Maribel: Is her output bad even after utilizing Grand Incantation to power it up? If she hits hard with the boost from said skill, then she's a two turn type attacker: one turn to charge and one turn to fire. She's like Patchy in this sense, but having far less squishiness to herself.
A thought: Would Maintenance be broken on Maribel, given her bad output? I would imagine that it would, since she can excel in dealing with floor trash, unless I'm mistaken.
A second thought: How powerful are Maribel's spells in Satori's hands? A MAG focused Satori, in particular?
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Question about Maribel: Is her output bad even after utilizing Grand Incantation to power it up? If she hits hard with the boost from said skill, then she's a two turn type attacker: one turn to charge and one turn to fire. She's like Patchy in this sense, but having far less squishiness to herself.
A thought: Would Maintenance be broken on Maribel, given her bad output? I would imagine that it would, since she can excel in dealing with floor trash, unless I'm mistaken.
A second thought: How powerful are Maribel's spells in Satori's hands? A MAG focused Satori, in particular?
Her damage output actually becomes good enough when she uses Grand Incantation.
Maribel isn't made to have maintenance, so yes it would be broken on her.
Her spells wouldn't be that powerful in Satori's hands because they would all be level 1 spells. It's different if she had like a move that used a very high attack formula similar to Komachi or Suika, but all of her spells are magic, so it would be pointless. Even if Maribel did have a super high magic formula, Satori is getting less benefit because it's always gonna be level 1 while Maribel's can reach level 5.
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>goes into Second Sun thinking I can easily manage it if I keep a good front line
>3 attackers are switched in and they all die
Well then. (I think I shouldn't have brought a billion attackers...)
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A thought: Would Maintenance be broken on Maribel, given her bad output? I would imagine that it would, since she can excel in dealing with floor trash, unless I'm mistaken.
Maintenance is broken on everyone, so yes.
A second thought: How powerful are Maribel's spells in Satori's hands? A MAG focused Satori, in particular?
Satori's mag growth is only a little better than Mari's, but mari has much better level up difficulty. As a result, mari is probably going to be significantly better at using her own spells.
I honestly never used Satori in my game, but as an armchair general, I'd say that the best characters to pair her with are those with poor stats. That's why narrow confines is so amazing; it's based on mag, which Komachi doesn't have, so it has a really good formula to compensate.
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Excuse me, I'd like to know a little bit about the stats and subclasses in Labyrinth 2? In particular, I want to know if it's better to spend my skill points in spell cards or in stat boosts. I also want to know if it's a good idea to stick a subclass that boosts what a character is good at (a la Warrior Yuugi) or a subclass that would tend to give new abilities to an existing character (a la Magician Eirin.) I'd like to know if it's worth investing heavily in sub-class skills, also. Given how many unique spell cards and passive abilities each character has, I find it somewhat hard to justify spending points there.
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It varies a lot by character. However, the "___ Boost" skills and most spellcards don't get a big increase from skill points (unless you're Rinnosuke's High Boosts, or a card whose heal/buff/debuff/status-proc powers up on level, or someone with Maintennance), so passive abilities and subclasses tend to be where you want most of your points. The power increase isn't outright insignificant on attacks, but unless you really need it to deal 10% more damage, they're best used on passives/subclasses first.
Of course, subclasses also vary by a lot. You pretty much just have to figure that out yourself, though. Generally tanks want more support skills to use and attackers want either a flat damage increase or if necessary a nice attack like Monk's Leaning Iron Mountain to pierce def or Warrior's Explosive Flame Sword to hit a FIR weakness. But the people who already have useful skills might just want passive abilities like strategist or monk buffs/healing, etc
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Huh. I just noticed there's no wiki entry on the Desire-Eating Demon. (I was searching for one and didn't find it)
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Huh. I just noticed there's no wiki entry on the Desire-Eating Demon. (I was searching for one and didn't find it)
I was planning on making one after I did the Guardian of the crystals, but didn't actually feel like doing it after all. In a nutshell the strategy for that fight is "spam shock and nuke it".
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I was planning on making one after I did the Guardian of the crystals, but didn't actually feel like doing it after all. In a nutshell the strategy for that fight is "spam shock and nuke it".
I'm pretty sure I was the only one who beat it how you would "traditionally" beat a boss by buffing my attackers and switching them in and out while healing my tanks.
Also pretty sure the accepted strategy for that boss is to give Rin Magician subclass and the main equipment that inflicts Shock and just spam Cat's Walk.
Edit: I just happened to read the wiki entry for Guardian of the Crystals. This is probably going to come out sounding harsh, and while I appreciate the contribution, I couldn't just silently edit this one.
"It also regenerates health each turn based on the number of crystals still alive, roughly 77k per crystal."
"Your best of bet of winning this fight is taking out the Guardian first, since it is by far the most deadly of them all and once it falls you can keep your party easily buffed up."
Like seriously? Kaitani, pray tell why should we focus on taking out the Guardian first when it regenerates health based on how many Crystals are alive? You even went as far as to say the Wind Crystal is relatively weak to Death but still insist that the Guardian should be taken out first.
The boss fight strategies shouldn't be written with Flandre cheese in mind because that's what it sounds like.
I'd rewrite this myself but sadly its been far too long since I fought this boss... From what you've written, it seems like the best way to go about the fight is to take out 3 of the 4 crystals leaving one alive before hammering away at the Guardian. That said, I have no idea which crystal should be left alive and my personal experience doesn't help either since I took out all the crystals and dealt with the boss by himself.
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I'm pretty sure I was the only one who beat it how you would "traditionally" beat a boss by buffing my attackers and switching them in and out while healing my tanks.
Also pretty sure the accepted strategy for that boss is to give Rin Magician subclass and the main equipment that inflicts Shock and just spam Cat's Walk.
Edit: I just happened to read the wiki entry for Guardian of the Crystals. This is probably going to come out sounding harsh, and while I appreciate the contribution, I couldn't just silently edit this one.
"It also regenerates health each turn based on the number of crystals still alive, roughly 77k per crystal."
"Your best of bet of winning this fight is taking out the Guardian first, since it is by far the most deadly of them all and once it falls you can keep your party easily buffed up."
Like seriously? Kaitani, pray tell why should we focus on taking out the Guardian first when it regenerates health based on how many Crystals are alive? You even went as far as to say the Wind Crystal is relatively weak to Death but still insist that the Guardian should be taken out first.
The boss fight strategies shouldn't be written with Flandre cheese in mind because that's what it sounds like.
I'd rewrite this myself but sadly its been far too long since I fought this boss... From what you've written, it seems like the best way to go about the fight is to take out 3 of the 4 crystals leaving one alive before hammering away at the Guardian. That said, I have no idea which crystal should be left alive and my personal experience doesn't help either since I took out all the crystals and dealt with the boss by himself.
Your criticism is valid, since in the end I really struggled to beat it "fair and square". The reason for suggesting to kill the Guardian first regardless of its healing is the reason it may on any of its turns just full wipe your whole party with its crazy strong attacks. At challenge level I simply couldn't see any way to survive its attacks long enough to take out 3 of the crystals. Though I think I should edit it atleast to say "after killing one crystal" instead of "first". However I stand behind that entry in the sense of trying to provide enough information about the fight for the reader to make their own plans on how to approach it. In the end, you can't argue that it's better than no entry at all right?
It's a wiki after all, so anyone with an epiphany on how to manage the fight without strong nukers taking out the Guardian early on can easily add their strategy to that entry, now that most of the base information about the fight is there.
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Well for Culex I debuffed him like crazy, insta killed the wind crystal with Yuyuko, Flanned the Water Crystal, used Suika for the Earth Crystal, kept the Fire Crystal up, killed Culex with everyone else, then killed the Fire Crystal last. The First Crystal does do huge tank damage, I think I kept buffed Tenshi 100% all the time and gave her fire res to tank it.
After I thought of that strat after 3 wipes I killed him. Might have been able to keep the wind crystal up instead of fire, I just don't know what it does since I accidentally instant killed it the first time I fought him with Yuyu and just kept doing it :V
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I just Death'd the Magatama on 12F... I didn't even know it was possible without Reisen's Intense Vertigo...
I was on my last leg so I figured I'd just use Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana just cause and it happened to Death it.
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Was Yuyuko on the Toxicologist subclass at the time?
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Might have been able to keep the wind crystal up instead of fire, I just don't know what it does since I accidentally instant killed it the first time I fought him with Yuyu and just kept doing it :V
It has Calming Scent.
I think that should speak for itself :P
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Was Yuyuko on the Toxicologist subclass at the time?
She didn't have a subclass. I double checked my set up right after and there really was nothing that aided in inflicting Death. I wish I had the reaction speed to screenshot it as it was happening...
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Well, I guess that explains why Yuyuko doesn't have Sheer Force as a skill: she doesn't need it to Death stuff.
Of course, given that she herself isn't normally available until the fire stratum, I'll presume that you're using a New Game + to pull this off, yes?
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Well, I guess that hat explains why Yuyuko doesn't have Sheer Force as a skill: she doesn't need it to Death stuff.
Of course, given that she herself isn't normally available until the fire stratum, I'll presume that you're using a New Game + to pull this off, yes?
Yeah, its my third play through of the game using characters that I didn't use in my other play throughs. Still quality checking the rest of the translation before the latest translation patch and enjoying the story for once while I'm at it.
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I just Death'd the Magatama on 12F... I didn't even know it was possible without Reisen's Intense Vertigo...
I was on my last leg so I figured I'd just use Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana just cause and it happened to Death it.
A friend of mine actually suggested I should death the magatama/mirror shadow. It it indeed possible without intense vertigo/toxicologist, but the chances are incredibly slim.
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Has nobody stopped for a moment and wondered how a big tree got things like
First floors: A forest, okay normal so far
Next: Water, you assume its the water the tree is absorbing to sustain itself
Next: Jungle, Normal still
Next: A burning forest, Maybe tenshi set the thing on fire trying to take out some characters from interfering
Next: Desert, Maybe the forest fire already ruined these floors
Next: Dark and dusky Pitfalls, Seems something you would find inside yukari gaps
Final: Heavenly Top of tree, Looks like you have reached heaven and looks celestial
Not to mention all the monsters,FOE and bosses inside it
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The desert came before the burning forest and no I never stopped to think about it because its a Touhou game and a LoT one at that.
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Not to mention all the monsters,FOE and bosses inside it
Personally I've always felt that the characters are the oddest part of the dungeon, namely the ones that got really far in. They managed to do alone what you needed a group of 12 to do. Especially when you have ones like Keine in LoT1, who got very deep into the postgame area without even having very good attacks.
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Personally I've always felt that the characters are the oddest part of the dungeon, namely the ones that got really far in. They managed to do alone what you needed a group of 12 to do. Especially when you have ones like Keine in LoT1, who got very deep into the postgame area without even having very good attacks.
They were "bosses" before they joined the group, even if you didn't fight them. :V
When they joined you they just magically got weaker or you beat them up previously.
A lot of games are like that actually, sometimes it has no real story relevance and is mainly for gameplay, as in LoTs case.
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Rather than just magically get weaker, I'd like to think they're just holding back now that they're in a group.
Or in a more logical sense, they actually didn't get weaker. The monsters/bosses just got stronger. Along with some other mumbo jumbo.
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[ ] Magic
[ ] Eirin's shady new drug
[ ] Yukari fooling around again
[ ] A Moriya shrine conspiracy
Pick one
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[ ] Magic
[ ] Eirin's shady new drug
[ ] Yukari fooling around again
[ ] A Moriya shrine conspiracy
Pick one
I like to add "It's because they became protagonists" to the list of forbidden templates, if I may.
Also, has anyone tested how effective Hexer's Conversion is with Iku? I only have hypothetical knowledge here, not actual experience, and I would like to know how useful it is in practice for those who use her. I hope that no one minds that I ask about this...
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I like to add "It's because they became protagonists" to the list of forbidden templates, if I may.
Also, has anyone tested how effective Hexer's Conversion is with Iku? I only have hypothetical knowledge here, not actual experience, and I would like to know how useful it is in practice for those who use her. I hope that no one minds that I ask about this...
I stopped using Iku after a while since she was pretty slow and there were better de/buffers.
If she was faster, I might have used her more to find out what would have worked well with her.
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RE Hexer's Conversion on Iku:The def/mnd debuff is brutal, she'd just fall over dead. (I don't -think- flexibility works in the way where that'd work out, but if it leaves it as a debuff for other intents and purposes I guess it'd be good? ...huh, I never used those passives.) Assuming Flexibility just calculates debuff skills into buffs it's still a good tactic to use the move on herself though. Also helps with that speed thing you were mentioning, since her spd buff turns into a spd/def/mnd buff! Interestingly, you want to leave it at lv1 to use it like that... although, if you max it then it only debuffs by like 12% and becomes usable on everyone. So, it's a tradeoff.
Although jeez I probably should test how that works now. But I'm lazy.
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RE Hexer's Conversion on Iku:The def/mnd debuff is brutal, she'd just fall over dead. (I don't -think- flexibility works in the way where that'd work out, but if it leaves it as a debuff for other intents and purposes I guess it'd be good? ...huh, I never used those passives.) Assuming Flexibility just calculates debuff skills into buffs it's still a good tactic to use the move on herself though. Also helps with that speed thing you were mentioning, since her spd buff turns into a spd/def/mnd buff! Interestingly, you want to leave it at lv1 to use it like that... although, if you max it then it only debuffs by like 12% and becomes usable on everyone. So, it's a tradeoff.
Although jeez I probably should test how that works now. But I'm lazy.
Actually, if I read the nature of the debuffing on that spell right, it gets stronger but gains a lower chance of affliction. And I did actually ask about this earlier...
A few questions about Iku and the Hexer subclass...
0297 Whiskers of the Dragon God
Lv 1 + 56% SPD, -60% DEF/MND 140%
Lv 2 + 60% SPD, -68% DEF/MND 130%
Lv 3 + 64% SPD, -76% DEF/MND 120%
Lv 4 + 68% SPD, -84% DEF/MND 110%
Lv 5 + 72% SPD, -92% DEF/MND 100%
Apparently, the debuff for this spell increases as it levels up, so this spell is clearly meant to be used with Flexibility. My questions are this...
1. Does the Hexer's skill to strengthen debuffs affect the debuffs on this spell?
2. When Flexibility activates, is the debuff removed from Iku? Because if not, then that would mean that Hexer's Conversion could be used here to great effect, helping her as it does for Chen, and unlike Chen, Iku can actually use the HP recovery to help her stay alive, which would help her immensely for the sake of being a support type(not to mention that gaining the power to debuff Mind synergies with Heavenly Maiden's Blow(doubles the effect of Mind debuffs when Iku attacks with anything)).
No the debuff is still there for Hina and other characters that work off debuffs.
Then Iku can use Hexer Conversion from the debuff? That would really be good if she could.
I'm editing the wiki as we speak, so knowing whether or not the Hexer's skills would benefit her would help out a lot. I hope that I'm not being pushy by asking here...
The debuffs are still on her as debuffs and interact with the Hexer skills.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, Whiskers is a self buff, meaning that Iku can only use it on herself. This kind of makes sense as she's the only one who can use that spell so effectively once Flexibility is turned on.
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Also, unless I'm mistaken, Whiskers is a self buff, meaning that Iku can only use it on herself. This kind of makes sense as she's the only one who can use that spell so effectively once Flexibility is turned on.
Whiskers is most certainly not a self buff. With enough resistances, Iku is an absolutely great offensive buffer imo (until you get buffing god Byakuren of course). Iku isn't the only character with Flexibility and with debuff resistance, the draw backs of Whiskers is hardly anything.
I've been using Iku as part of my party of 12 characters I never really gave a chance to. While I can't say for certain since I haven't gotten to that point myself, I'm pretty sure shes similar to how she is in LoT1: a risky offensive buffer until your team can be made PAR immune. When I HAVE gotten Stickleback to not paralyze Parsee and Kasen, they wreck faces. And since I have Hina in the party, I'm already trying to get most of my characters to be highly resistant to debuffs anyway.
Also, for your question about whether Hexer's Conversion works on Iku: without actually trying it out myself and based on what I've experienced, I'm inclined to believe Hexer's Conversion doesn't really work on Iku. Unlike Hina, Iku has to frequently use Whiskers to keep herself debuffed and you're basically using the cost of Whiskers for a small HP and MP regeneration. There's probably a balance where you don't keep yourself fully debuffed but still enjoy enough HP and MP regeneration to make the frequent casts worth it but I would think its difficult to find that balance.
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Well, to be fair, it was said on the wiki that Chen could benefit from the use of Hexer's Conversion to keep her MP powered up without the need for Beat Down thanks to her buff, so I figured that since Iku could do the same thing, but better, since she becomes bulkier from the debuff thanks to Flexibility, and Iku can benefit from the HP regen, even if it isn't that much to begin with. And Whiskers is her least expensive spell at 3 MP, so it's not like she couldn't just use this on herself to increase her survivability and then quickly help out others with her other spells. Basically, my thought on the subject is this: if this skill can power a Chensaw, then it can power a electric oarfish.
Also, if you've only tried Hexer's Conversion with Hina, then that would skewer the results a bit, since Hina only gets 1/3 of the effect that it would deliver otherwise. And I'm not saying that the HP regen would be uber-tier, just that it would help her out a bit. It certainly couldn't hurt, right?
Edit: On a completely different note, I need to ask if posting this link that I found on the previous LoT2 thread up on the first page of this topic would be against the rules...
http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852
I also found this as well, as a set of instructions on how to download from said site...
http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc
If anyone can tell me, please let me know. Thank you.
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Edit: On a completely different note, I need to ask if posting this link that I found on the previous LoT2 thread up on the first page of this topic would be against the rules...
http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852
I also found this as well, as a set of instructions on how to download from said site...
http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc
If anyone can tell me, please let me know. Thank you.
I don't think it would be against the rules, if anything, it would be a good idea, to give people who don't have the game a way to get it for themselves in a legitimate way.
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Thanks, Kuilfrayt. I'll go do that right now...
Edit: and it's done. I really do hope that this is okay...
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Posting to say Ethan has provided values for Passive Skills (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17698.msg1151141.html#msg1151141)
Here's the link to the text itself.
http://textuploader.com/6s2t
That is all.
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Posting to say Ethan has provided values for Passive Skills (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17698.msg1151141.html#msg1151141)
Here's the link to the text itself.
http://textuploader.com/6s2t
That is all.
Holy crap, so level 2 of Blazing/Froggy Power/those skills blah blah blah increases/reduces damage dealt/taken by a whopping 30%? That's huger than I thought.
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Yeah, the bonus seemed pretty big when I was trying it out. Sanae in party with a spirit magic user boosts the spell fairly significantly.
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I just noticed that The Shinigami's Work wasn't listed, so I don't know how much it increases the chance now. :(
Ah that's fine. He's done so much I won't bug him for one little skill.
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A note on Hexer's Conversion:
Hexer's Conversion
The user will recover 0.25% HP per point of debuff and 1 + 2% MP per point of
debuff. Of course, the recovery is reduced by a third for Hina.
If this is correct and a point of debuff is the same as "1% debuff", well...
Edit: The reason behind my post is simple. If this is true, then a single -50% debuff would restore 100% MP... I somehow think that a "point of debuff" means something else MP-wise. HP-wise, it's a bit less broken, since the same debuff would restore 12.5% HP(which is a bit more than the 10% HP regen from the Regeneration skill), which doesn't sound broken until you realize that one can have two of these debuffs easily from some of the buff spells that exists in the game(Kimontoukou and Whiskers are two notable examples, with the latter being able to target any ally, rather than just the user), which means a 25% HP regen. Of course, said regen would degrade due to the debuffs degrading, so it's more like a 15% to 20% HP regen at first. Still, a near complete restore of MP after a single cast of Whiskers with Hexer's Conversion is rather OP, isn't it?
I would want to think that a "point of debuff" means "for each separate debuff", but then there would be no need to weaken its effect for Hina, as the max for five debuffs would be 1.25% HP and 1+ 10% MP regen. What I think is needed is a clarification as to what a "point of debuff" actually means in game terms. I would ask Ethan myself, but I don't know his e-mail address and as he himself have stated, PMing him is not the best of ideas for a prompt reply.
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I am not quite sure what that means, but it has to be quite potent, otherwise there would be no need to nerf it to 1/3 of its value for Hina.
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It might be 1 + 0.02 mp (I don't know which way the rounding would work) for hexer's conversion? A full debuff for one stat would be 1 point of mp, so Hina would get 6 per turn (but then pushed down to 4 by her nerf on it?)
The easiest way to check would be for someone to actually see what happens ingame with a little Hina and Iku testing. (whilst I continue to be too lazy to actually spend 5 minutes doing this myself)
As a side note, the self-debuffs all hit def/mnd, so I don't really see it being a viable option for Not-Hina unless you have flexibility, and it'd still be awkward to keep up when the rest of your party wants buffs if Flexibility works that way. (I am also too lazy to test how it works, rip me)
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Uh the effect on Hina is 1/3. It means if it gives 6 mana normally, it will give 2 mana to Hina.
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Just tested it.Hina with all 50% debuffs restores 20% HP and 2 MP. Iku with Lv1 Whiskers gets the same amount (it debuffs DEF and MND for 50% ,but once Iku gets a turn,debuffs decrease to 40%)
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Uh the effect on Hina is 1/3. It means if it gives 6 mana normally, it will give 2 mana to Hina.
Oh, I read it as being decreased BY 1/3, not decreased TO 1/3.
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Just tested it.Hina with all 50% debuffs restores 20% HP and 2 MP. Iku with Lv1 Whiskers gets the same amount (it debuffs DEF and MND for 50% ,but once Iku gets a turn,debuffs decrease to 40%)
...blast. I thought that it would be more than that for Iku, as 2 MP isn't even enough to cover the cost of Whiskers. Still, 20% HP regen was within the estimates of what I was guessing that it would restore for her, so I suppose that that's fair in some ways. Um... How many turns does Iku have before the MP regen degrades to 1MP? Because that would answer whether it was worth it or not to use Hexer's Conversion with Iku(2 MP regen is useful in reducing the cost of her spells, allowing her to keep casting spells for longer).
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How many turns does Iku have before the MP regen degrades to 1MP?
On the 4th turn, when both debuffs drop to 20%. Also, I'd say the chance of receiving both debuffs at once is not high enough to make it reliable.
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Can someone explain Iku's formulas? I feel like right now her auto-attack is insanely broken. Fighting Tenshi on floor 9, she could do 500 damage even with Tenshi's defenses buffed to 100% above -- the only character besides those with armor-piercing spell cards that could do this, and the *only* one whose auto-attack got through. She also routinely takes out magic-resistant enemies with thousands of damage just on her main attack. Except it's supposed to be a magic attack! It has to be defense-piercing or something, because it also works on enemies that resist Direct Attacks, so it's not that she's just directing magic at the enemies' DEF stat.
Is this a bug, or does Iku just have an insanely broken main attack?
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She has a passive that let's her auto-attack penetrate defenses and empowers it.
Works even better when combined with the Warrior/Sorcerer passive.
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From one of her skills, Hagoromo Like Sky:
"Normal attacks will bypass (SLv * 40) % of the enemy's Defense/Mind, and deal (SLv * 20) % more damage." which is up to 2 levels. So yeah, not a bug, just great. It gets more fun with enhanced normal attack from Sorcerer subclass.
EDIT: Ninja'd, oh well.
On a side note, beat the High God's Matagama because Yuuka stood there in slot 2 at ~100% stats and racked up damage with resisted spells. Stayed alive because of her regen passive and extra attack + gensokyo's reflowering. Good fun.
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Hell. I forgot I even picked that up. Good lord her autoattack.
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I might have to go full MAG Iku at some point... or at least build her like Kanako because I'm interested in seeing how far her Normal Attack will take me in terms of damage.
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On the 4th turn, when both debuffs drop to 20%. Also, I'd say the chance of receiving both debuffs at once is not high enough to make it reliable.
Did you level up Whiskers when you tested it? Because that would interfere with the debuff's reliability, since leveling reduces the affliction rate. Also, if you're using anything that raises debuff resistance, then that would interfere with it as well...
@Hagaromo like Sky: If it's that good in crushing foes like that, then the Monk's skill towards normal attacks would flat out turn said attack into a tool for sweeping, wouldn't it? A 1 MP MND piercing attack that hits all enemies. Now that would be fun...
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Did you level up Whiskers when you tested it? Because that would interfere with the debuff's reliability, since leveling reduces the affliction rate. Also, if you're using anything that raises debuff resistance, then that would interfere with it as well...
Okay, I double-checked it. Apparently, Whiskers was lvl'd up (I thought it wasn't, since I did a character reset). I left only 4 chars in my party, and Iku was the only one in front, so she wasn't affected by debuff resistances. The chance to get both is quite high, but getting only one debuff is still not a rare occurrence.
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I am stuck as all get out on the Magatama of Amber Fangs. It just has too fucking much HP and a combo that no matter how high level you are, you still get killed. So fucking cheap with the "move to 1 HP. Now attack before anyone gets a chance." I'm playing on hard mode, so I can't go above level 48, or I would just level-grind the fuck out of this. (And I still think it wouldn't work.)
People recommended bringing Kasen but her dark attack is doing 0 damage, and Hina's Pain Flow is surprisingly lame. My current team is Iku (normal attacks), Rumia (Dark Side of the Moon), Reisen (omg debuffs), Eirin, Keine (omg buffs), Reimu (the only aoe heal, fucking hell), Utsuho (defense piercing), Minoriko (heeeeal), Aya (I specced her to Monk because that was the only fucking way I beat Tenshi on the 9th floor), Sakuya (because I'm scrambling for Dark here), Komachi (tank 1) and Meiling (tank 2).
It all goes well until that damn thing picks up speed, or until I realize that I've swapped out characters too quickly and everyone is sitting at like 10 HP in the back row. The damn creature moves so fast no one gets to recover off the field. Once someone in my fourth slot receives an unlucky swat, or gets "HP to 1 now Normal Attack"-ed, then it just all starts going to hell because that's where I put my less tanky damage dealers. I'm sitting around level 45, because my fast levelers are already 48 but people like Komachi are taking time to level. Do I just have to grind more? I feel like that won't help.
Halp.
Edit: I tried switching up my party to include people like Kogasa and Nitori. I got to about...2/3 health left and its speed was just too insane for me. Also, I'm seeing people with like Kasen doing 18,000 damage and this makes no sense to me because she does 0 or 1 damage when I try to use her Dark move. I also tried "fuck defense, go damage and elemental resistance" and it didn't do jack. What's happening?
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Got Stuck with a messy boss fight? Bring flandle to play
In all seriousness, The most bitchy fights were
Azure Giant (Hello Rasetsu Fist and self buffs)
Great Knowledge (Turn one buff, Turn Two Game Over)
Magatama (Speed Buff,HP regen, Annoying)
Mirror (BLOODY HELL NERF THIS THING, ITS WORSE THAN LoT1 RINNOSUKE)
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I don't have Flandre, and I'm not sure I care enough about having enough battles with the SDM folk/other requirements to get her. Assume no Flandre for now. Also, this isn't endgame Magatama, this is the first one, on the 12th floor.
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I don't have Flandre, and I'm not sure I care enough about having enough battles with the SDM folk/other requirements to get her. Assume no Flandre for now. Also, this isn't endgame Magatama, this is the first one, on the 12th floor.
Have you tried using Suika? I don't really remember if I used her or not, but I most likely did, since in my first playthrough I wasn't using Kasen(thought Kasen is really awesome.On my second walkthrough she was one of my mains).Suika might require some investment, but she can be really helpful at times. Sanae works great, since she has a nice buff and heal that removes PAR. Marisa's Master Spark(for the final phase), Also, Remilia/Momiji, but only if you used them before.They won't do much (maybe ~5-6k dmg), but that still helps.
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5-6k damage is a miracle here. I don't know where people are pulling like 10k from. I've switched my stats and put on the best equipment I have and I'm still doing maybe 4-5k at best with good attackers.
I...er...don't have Suika either. I forgot about her. Maybe I'll go get her now. Nor do I have Yuugi but that's because I tend to forget FOEs exist due to not being strong enough to beat them when I get to the floor.
See, you say you use Kasen, but Kasen isn't doing damage! I can't figure out why not. Am I just underleveled? Do a couple of levels on the slowpokes really matter?
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Well, I'd say for the hard bosses like Magatama, a few levels can make a difference. You get more levels in library, and boosts from items will become more significant. As for Kasen, how much ATK do you have on her?
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Got Stuck with a messy boss fight? Bring flandle to play
In all seriousness, The most bitchy fights were
Azure Giant (Hello Rasetsu Fist and self buffs)
Great Knowledge (Turn one buff, Turn Two Game Over)
Magatama (Speed Buff,HP regen, Annoying)
Mirror (BLOODY HELL NERF THIS THING, ITS WORSE THAN LoT1 RINNOSUKE)
Should be able to do hard if the library levels for the main game are 1.2 current level, since I think that is the cap.
I got through normal with library at half of my level, that had a few problems for Yuuka and the Orbs but that was really about it.
Of course the start of the end game was brutal...
PS
If Rinnosuke doesn't spam his best attack, like 3-4 times in a row like he did with me, he isn't that bad.
It is the NORMAL enemies after him that are a pain, the god press ones and pretty much anything from floor 20 I just ran from.
The bosses after him aren't even that hard until the twins.
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Uh, this is the LoT2 thread and not the LoT1 thread...
And 12F Magatama was a pain for my chosen party until I somehow Death'd it.
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As far as I can tell, this thread is for discussion of both LoT games. It does carry on from the old LoT threads after all.
Also, I decided to make a charagraph for LoT2 using the Touhou Puppet Play portraits.
Screenshot 1 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85661259/Screenshot%202015-01-01%2020.06.41.png)
Screenshot 2 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85661259/Screenshot%202015-01-01%2020.16.40.png)
Download (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85661259/Touhoumon%20Portrait%20Charagraph.rar)
It works the exact same as LoT1 charagraphs. Everything should be fine.
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As far as I can tell, this thread is for discussion of both LoT games. It does carry on from the old LoT threads after all.
Also, I decided to make a charagraph for LoT2 using the Touhou Puppet Play portraits.
Screenshot 1 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85661259/Screenshot%202015-01-01%2020.06.41.png)
Screenshot 2 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85661259/Screenshot%202015-01-01%2020.16.40.png)
Download (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85661259/Touhoumon%20Portrait%20Charagraph.rar)
It works the exact same as LoT1 charagraphs. Everything should be fine.
Neat~
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As far as I can tell, this thread is for discussion of both LoT games. It does carry on from the old LoT threads after all.
Huh. I thought for sure there was still a LoT1 thread floating around but seems like there wasn't any in the last 9 months...
I guess it makes sense to just put all LoT discussion in one thread.
Also, that cutoff on Iku's portrait...
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Yeah I fixed Iku after I took that screenshot. I was just too lazy to make another.
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Question about 6F Tenshi: Does she still have the Divine Barrier as a drop if defeated? I'm asking here because I don't know if the wiki is accurate about it. Also, you DO have to deplete her HP completely for the drops, right?
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She might give you a lil' something extra for depleting a good chunk of her HP, if I remember correctly... but if you want the big prizes like Divine Barrier you have to defeat her. And yes, she should still drop it, that ??? is just because they're not sure if it's 100% I guess. Which it should be, so long as you beat her.
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Oh, good. Then my last attempt was not in vain, since I almost did deplete her HP on said attempt. In fact, there's a few things that I would like to say about what I've learned...
1. The wiki is wrong about Marisa being good for the "brute force" method. Magic Missile doesn't do enough damage due to resistance, Sheer Force be damned. She can't even reach 2k in damage because of it, and MAG boosting equips are much harder to get than ATT boosting equips, which doesn't help.
2. Nitori is actually a viable choice as an attacker due to her Maintenance and "CLD damage increase" skill. The one caveat to it is that you need a few choice equips for this(more on this below), but Kappa's Illusion Waterfall(can't remember the name exactly) deals comparable damage to Yuugi and her NTR spell, and it can debuff DEF which helps her and Yuugi to hit harder.
3. Getting the "Battle Demon", "Coward Demon", and "get 36 item drops in one trip" achievements, and the items you get for them(Wash Basin Set, Meteor Drive, and Master Emblem) are beyond useful in order to do this with any sort of sanity, as the first one can go on Nitori(Maintenance skill, need I say more?), the second one can go on Yuugi(to counter her low speed), and the third can go to anyone who needs the MP(can be either Nitori(16 MP due to her skill) or Yuugi(almost doubles her MP)). Granted, getting the third achievement is essentially luck based, but if you can consistently get over 60 wins per trip and have Rinnosuke and Nazrin in the party(with the latter curbstomping entire enemy groups thanks to Extra Steps), then this shouldn't take too long to get... (As a aside, I actually earned this achievement by accident after letting Nitori's TP hit 0 while she was the only person in front killing stuff and I had a number people in the back to conserve their TP and extend the win streak, so this actually surprised me...)
4. I learned the 10000 yen can grant Komachi 25 MYS resist via Voile, presuming that you start from Lv 0. Given that the next level up would cost over 1k yen though... Still, since there's both a rock and a achievement that requires that you get that much money at once, it's good to know that you can raise Komachi's resistance at least that much.
5. As a sort of challenge(and to not let Tenshi become a deciding factor in this), I had elected to not trigger the event in which you pick which immortal to join your party until after I defeat Tenshi. This is because I don't want to have my strategy based on either of them(I know that Mokou can tank Tenshi regardless of her hits(which would let me skip using Minoriko and just start attacking from the start) and Kaguya can pierce her defense and not hit a resistance in the process(which is why I didn't even bother to touch Okuu)), so that I can make my choice in peace. Perhaps I should keep a copy of said save for another time and try out each one on her and see how far I can go...
6. Thanks to having the good fortune of getting 7 MP gems from beating bosses at challenge level, I was able to use that, a MP Boost tome, Master Emblem, and three Blade Cuisanarts or Hero Medals(both of them can be crafted if you don't have enough of either) on a Nitori with Maintenance to get the "get 50 MP on one character" achievement and get the Star of Elendil, and all it takes is 1 Tome of Reincarnation to remove both. So, if you got at least 7 MP gems and the Master Emblem(the rest can be gotten thru finding or crafting), then I would say that it's worth it to get this achievement now.
7. I find that, outside of losing Nitori and Yuugi, my main problem is that I run out of MP near the end of the fight, so I can't finish her off before she runs away. Maybe if I can keep them alive, the MP issue wouldn't matter, but...
And that's all that I can say about this for now. I can see now why grinding to actually defeat her is such a pain for you guys. But I still want her her damn item drop, so back I go to try, try again...
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You could also just use Wriggle and poison her. :P
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I do. In fact, I try to poison her right after slowing her down with Cirno. I don't consider Wriggle to be an important part of my strategy , but I use her poison all the same. Besides, my issue is finishing her off and making sure that my heavy hitters aren't killed off by Tenshi's attacks...
Epic edit: And 6F Tenshi is down! And the only reason that I can actually say that is because I got the "play for 30 hours" achievement(30000 yen) and used it to buff everyone up enough to finally pull it off. (Still have the save from before the fight)
The highlights:
My frontline at start: Komachi, Cirno, Aya, Nitori.
Komachi: I needed 4k HP as a safety line to tank with, and with 60 Voile Levels, the Guardian subclass, and my set up, I managed just that.
Cirno: Needed to slow Tenshi to a crawl and fast, so I put her Level up bonuses in SPD and gave her a speed set up. The results were effective, but Cirno was largely unneeded afterwards, so Tenshi taking her out a few turns in didn't bother me much.
Aya: Cranked up to the maxed in SPD, and with her passive SPD buffing, it helped out a lot. I ended up giving her the Master Emblem, so she could buff up people more before needing to concentrate.
Nitori: Lands over 3.5K in damage with her CLD attack, and that's before Tenshi gets debuffed. Largely is able to hit 4k damage, and I even decided to throw a Super Scope 3D at her in the middle of the fight, which hit for 8k. Definitely worth it to deal heavy, consistent damage.
And now for the others...
Mystia: It took 70 levels of Voile to get her to just over the 2k mark in Attack, but it was worth it to spam Midnight Chorus Master via some switching(Instant Attack is worth it), landing between 3 and 4.5k damage per shot, and she was able to fire off four shots off before needing to recharge. She also recharge fast enough to eke out one more to smack that rockhead and hard. Also, it always silences her. (more on that below...)
Kogasa: I had decided to try to spec her for Attack, but I end up not using her at all in the end. It's a shame, since you can get her to reach the same 2k mark in Attack in 50 Voile levels, with 60 levels having her match Nitori in raw attack power. Note that Nitori both use Maintenance and had 70 Voile levels at the time. If you don't have Yuugi due to whatever reason, give Kogasa a try. Also, remember that when setting her up for Attack, you don't need her Sheer force skill, as she has moves that aren't resisted by Tenshi.
Orin: I knew that Orin could pull off some serious damage if Extra Attack did its thing, and I was right. 2K in Attack and 1k in Magic means that Blazing Wheel hits for over 5k easily. In fact, Orin was the one who landed the final blow by hitting her with 3 Blazing Wheels, which did a grand total of 16k damage. Definitely worth the investment in Attack and Magic, and I didn't even specced her completely in that department, as I had points in Final Blow to try and combo her with Mystia's Midnight Chorus Master and its power to always Silence her for a great amount. It was awesome.
Yuugi: I only used her NTR attack once and it dealt the same damage as Nitori's CLD attack, and that's with said NTR spell being at level 5 while Nitori had her CLD damage boost and her spell at level 3. And Nitori is fast than Yuugi easily to boot. I think that the people who suggested Yuugi obviously did not experiment with the other characters. Yuugi works if you use her, but she's not irreplaceable.
Wriggle: Landed Poison once before Tenshi wiped her from the field, so she did something for the sake of damage. Still, as poison is not my strategy, losing her didn't bother me.
Minoriko: Ah, my wonderful healer... 50 Levels in MAG and SPD each, she heals Komachi well enough to almost always get her back to full and is actually faster than Nitori, who had 135 SPD at the time. And although I did have Nitori upfront at the start for the winning run, it was Minoriko that I had on all the other runs, and when she does have a free turn to hit Tenshi, she hits for over 2k easily, which isn't bad for a healer. I even had her running her passive MAG buff running in the winning run to increase her healing power somewhat. I do suspect that said buff also boosted Orin's Blazing Wheel's damage as well, since its a composite spell.
Satori: The other surprise of my winning rug, as I brought her in due to not knowing who else to bring. She was technically meant to take a hit if Tenshi swatted the second slot, cannon fodder in other words. When Tenshi didn't do so, I ended up using her to do a SPD buff(copying Aya) the first two times. Then, at the third time, I realized that I could use her to use Narrow Confines of Avici for the debuffs, since Komachi was low on MP. Despite being specced for Attack, Satori did over 1k damage while doing so. I think that I should of specced her for MAG instead, if only to copy NCoA for the debuffs and to do some damage. I've decided to not underestimate her again, and try to invest in buffing both Attack and Magic next time, if to give her the power to crush enemies flat.
And the last one was Nazrin who was obviously there for no reason at all other than Nazrin. Also, I can confirm that you do get the Divine Barrier when you defeat her, and it is as glorious as I thought it would be and more. 88% DEF and MND would be great on its own, but it also boasts a +40 resistance to FIR, CLD, NTR, and WND. When I threw this on a Hina that was specced in DEF and MND, she turned from "half decent tank with flaws" to "serious tank with almost zero issues", having over 1k DEF and MND, and nullifying three of her weaknesses. All I need was a Itama and a Lucky Horseshoe, and she effectively ends up resisting all elements. And she hasn't even been buffed much by Voile at all, so...
Part of me wants to think that if I ever want to use Okuu, she's going to need that or Meteor Drive or both to be effective with a "stay in" strategy...
Regardless, I'm now exploring the next stratum, and oh dear gods, this place makes me want to reach for Mokou so damn bad. I'll probably use a Stone of Awakening just to give someone Explosive Flame Sword and have them smack every thing with fire. I'm just glad that CLD moves still are effective on stuff, although it doesn't guarantee a clean sweep by itself. And I find that I'm at least 10 levels over the challenge level for the bosses as well... Sigh. Oh well, at least I won and I'm going to go and smack the jungle stratum silly. Until then...
Oh, and one thing before I forget...
Never. Doing. That. Again.
Hm... The innitals spell NDTA, maybe it could be used as an acronym?
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I don't agree with using Yuugi for damage because if anything, I would have used her for Heavy. That said, I haven't tested most of the strategies people tacked on to what I initially wrote so I can't exactly moderate it.
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Does anybody have them ripped, or at least know of someone/somewhere where I can get them?
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If you mean the pictures of the characters themselves, then I do believe that they have done so.
If you mean the attack animations, then I have no clue.
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If you mean the attack animations, then I have no clue.
Ultimately, these are the ones I really want... :(
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Is there new info on the development of the expansion of this game or is it nigh?
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Is there new info on the development of the expansion of this game or is it nigh?
Nada still. They didn't participate in this Comiket, there's nothing new on their homepage, and the last relevant news on Touhou Labyrinth 2 was that it's now being sold online from DLSite. So yea, still waiting.
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Sadness. That's all I can say about that.
On to better news, 9F Tenshi down, and I have a few comments about that fight...
1. I went for a brute force method like last time, and I found that Momiji and Meiling were good for this method. The former due to having "Eyes That Perceive Reality"(I speced her for Attack and gave her Monk with a Maxed out Iron Mountain Charge to do consistent damage), and the latter due to Mountain Breaker, which can pierce her defenses when you spec her for Attack. I also gave Kogasa(who was specced in Attack from last time) and Orin(also specced for Attack and having Extra Attack) Iron Mountain Charge as well, which helped out.
2. I was surprised by Sanae surviving Tenshi's focus attack. What element is that attack, anyway? Because if it's Wind, then that would explain a lot(she had 236 WND resist when I checked afterwards, and she was Lv 30, so...)
3. I had chosen Kaguya as my immortal of choice, but I didn't use her for the fight(she ended up doing some damage to Tenshi during the "you're supposed to lose" fight), which is a true shame. It also means that I'll have to accept getting Eirin instead of Reisen later on, but I think that I am willing to live with that(Eirin is going to need the Healer subclass if I'm going to use her though)...
So, I'm on 10F now, and I got a quick question for you guys... It's about the FOE you didn't fight disappearing due to the Kanako/Suwako thing. Will the FOE that you didn't fight reappear later like the other FOE's, or do I have to do a NG+ for that?
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It's about the FOE you didn't fight disappearing due to the Kanako/Suwako thing.
No matter which god you end up helping, the other FOE will still be there for you to kill. They're no different from any other FOE in the game, apart from that little story element.
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Is this thread just about the second game? Is anyone still playing the first one? I bought it recently and I'm LOVING it. Amazing dungeon crawler (though I can't see getting my non-Touhou friends into it, all the characters are meaningless to someone who doesn't know the series). If there's another thread still specifically for the first game and not the sequel, please direct me to it!
First gameover was to Yuugi. Then I saw the folder with the game maker commentary on the character artwork... lol, I've been trolled. Nasty stuff having bosses under non-boss event markers. I managed to damage rush her down with a more prepared team the next time. I'm really liking the 12 character switch in system, it's really strategic, and grinding is a lot of fun because of how much freedom you have in terms of stat development, who you focus on, etc.
For my first run, I decided I'd stick with just the first 12 characters I get (Reimu, Marisa, Remilia, Sakuya, Patchouli, Meiling, Chen, Cirno, Minoriko, Youmu, Rumia, Wriggle.) I'll save using other characters for more replays through the game, so using them will be totally brand new!
I'm surprised at how good some of the lesser characters are. Wriggle has amazing resists and stat growth, I stick her or Meiling in the front for bosses so Remilia can hide in 2nd place and chuck spears. Rumia's Moonlight Ray is ridiculously strong for a stage 1 boss...
Also, Nitori's gun really, really hurts... I'm glad it didn't attack anyone other than my frontline character. I think I neglected affinities too much because it one-shotted Wriggle at 100% def buff with 3000 HP 1000 DEF/MND. Barely made it through that fight when Extending Arm ripped all my healers to shreds and had to resort to trying to quickly spam attacks on her while Meiling barely kept enough health via Colorful Rain or Healer to survive being gunned down. Chen did a ridulous amount of damage thanks to Cirno desperately inflicting PAR and SPD Down...
Is Youmu supposed to be a frontliner or does she hide in the back like Patchouli? Her gigantic DEF stat and moderate HP are really misleading, and I find she's as frail as Patchy is if anything magical hits her...
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Thanks for the info, even though I ended up finding that out myself, but still...
Oh, and for the sake of giving a picture proof of what you get for beating 6F Tenshi...
(http://i.imgur.com/QSRVe71.png)
I do hope that imgur works for this forum...
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Is this thread just about the second game? Is anyone still playing the first one? I bought it recently and I'm LOVING it. Amazing dungeon crawler (though I can't see getting my non-Touhou friends into it, all the characters are meaningless to someone who doesn't know the series). If there's another thread still specifically for the first game and not the sequel, please direct me to it!
First gameover was to Yuugi. Then I saw the folder with the game maker commentary on the character artwork... lol, I've been trolled. Nasty stuff having bosses under non-boss event markers. I managed to damage rush her down with a more prepared team the next time. I'm really liking the 12 character switch in system, it's really strategic, and grinding is a lot of fun because of how much freedom you have in terms of stat development, who you focus on, etc.
For my first run, I decided I'd stick with just the first 12 characters I get (Reimu, Marisa, Remilia, Sakuya, Patchouli, Meiling, Chen, Cirno, Minoriko, Youmu, Rumia, Wriggle.) I'll save using other characters for more replays through the game, so using them will be totally brand new!
I'm surprised at how good some of the lesser characters are. Wriggle has amazing resists and stat growth, I stick her or Meiling in the front for bosses so Remilia can hide in 2nd place and chuck spears. Rumia's Moonlight Ray is ridiculously strong for a stage 1 boss...
Also, Nitori's gun really, really hurts... I'm glad it didn't attack anyone other than my frontline character. I think I neglected affinities too much because it one-shotted Wriggle at 100% def buff with 3000 HP 1000 DEF/MND. Barely made it through that fight when Extending Arm ripped all my healers to shreds and had to resort to trying to quickly spam attacks on her while Meiling barely kept enough health via Colorful Rain or Healer to survive being gunned down. Chen did a ridulous amount of damage thanks to Cirno desperately inflicting PAR and SPD Down...
Is Youmu supposed to be a frontliner or does she hide in the back like Patchouli? Her gigantic DEF stat and moderate HP are really misleading, and I find she's as frail as Patchy is if anything magical hits her...
Topic is for either game, don't worry.
Yuugi is SUPPOSED to be a damage race, especially once she starts KOi3S spam which is NOT survivable if you're at even a REMOTELY correct level. Period.
Many of the characters are quite viable for different reasons, so good on you for having fun with the selections!
Affinities come into play heavily with Nitori. Most of her skills are Fire or Nature element, so packing resistance to those helps. Also a couple notes on the Megawatt Linear Gun:
-it ONLY targets slot 1.
-It's fire element in the boss battle far as I know, so it's gonna tear Wriggle APART. Check her fire affinity. If you have LOVE Machines and you're using her as a primary tank(Meiling's MUCH more suited though) then she'd better have at least one if she even wants to CONSIDER tanking it. Even then, it's crazy strong.
Also a note: Don't forget Reimu's DEF/MND boost spell towards the start of hard fights! It's expensive, but it WILL save you countless times more than likely. It can be the difference between scratch damage and "my organs fell out" damage.
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The plan for boss fights now is basically to put Wriggle and Remilia in front to poison/buff up, while Reimu and Sakuya or Minoriko start in the back for an immediate team buff. I used this to mow down Alice (Firefly Phenomenon to poison everyone and then Comets on everyone individually, she went down fast) as well as Suwako without much trouble (she did do some crazy damage with Mishagujisama, but otherwise didn't hurt too much). Even with that I guess I need to focus on affinities to make myself durable.
I've rather ignored elemental affinities on my equipment, focusing more on resistance to everything, but I guess a tank just needs PSN/DTH resistance. Does their defense go down if they're hit with PAR or can they still take hits just as well when paralysed?
Poison rips through my team's HP when it hits unless I have resist gear on; I assume Wriggle's does the same to enemies?
I thought maybe I'd have a shot at that very obviously dangerous "do not touch" seal on the first floor. Shinu ga yoi. ;_; I guess I shouldn't even bother until my HP is at least 5 digits.
I just noticed a typo in my username. I was wondering why it kept saying username not found this morning. :blush:
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Poison rips through my team's HP when it hits unless I have resist gear on; I assume Wriggle's does the same to enemies?
Wriggle's poison is great for pre-post game. It is lackluster post game, because it just can't keep up with the speed/damage your characters do. Also, most enemies and bosses can be hit by poison.
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I've rather ignored elemental affinities on my equipment, focusing more on resistance to everything, but I guess a tank just needs PSN/DTH resistance. Does their defense go down if they're hit with PAR or can they still take hits just as well when paralysed?
Nope, PAR doesn't have any impact on their survivability.
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Yes, Wriggle has top-tier damage comparing to your powerful nukers until postgame; in the jump from level ~100 to level ~200 and onward between starting 20F and starting 21F+, a lot of balance changes a bit, and that includes Poison suddenly doing next to no damage. RIP
*in touhou laby 1
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A note of something from the wiki: for all three of the Tenshi fights, I don't think that it's listed that you can safely use SPD buffs without getting a Sword of Hisou to the face. That would be something that is rather important for people to know, since higher speeds from buffing can actually make a big difference.
In fact, the more I look at the wiki, the more that I agree with the notion that was said earlier: it hasn't been updated in a while. Sigh...
Sorry for my complaining, guys... I just feel like this needs to be said is all.
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Nada still. They didn't participate in this Comiket, there's nothing new on their homepage, and the last relevant news on Touhou Labyrinth 2 was that it's now being sold online from DLSite. So yea, still waiting.
Google translating some stuff on their twitter (and getting a friend who actually knows to doublecheck) says that a while back they said something like "we're still working on it but we've been too lazy to update the site". Unfortunately I haven't seen anything relevant since then.
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And now, a question for you guys. Is it possible for you to recruit Flandre before fighting the Mirror and Magatama on 12F? Because I have Kaguya and Mokou, and all SDM members have 300+ BP. Is there an event on 12F that requires that you beat the Mirror and Magatama first? I'm kinda in the dark here, and I want the girl to send the Mirror and Magatama into oblivion, and give Tenshi a terror she won't soon forget...
Edit: I also remember that there was an event on 12F that I did that involved Remilia and Sakuya, I presume that that's the event that you need to trigger to make Flandre appear, but she's not there...
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It's already possible to fight and recruit Flan without going any further.
You need to defeat a total of 30 FOEs (not different ones) for Flandre to show up.
Forgot where exactly it lies but I guess you already have the 60 achievements needed to pass through the challenge rock.
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Hey, Ghaleon, out of curiosity: I remember that you were a big proponent of heavily favoring defensive builds for characters in LoT1. Did you have any particular criteria to decide whether a defensive build was "worth" doing on a given character, though, like a particular stat cutoff? Some are fairly obvious (all the non-attackers in general, and then things like MND Patchy and DEF Remilia), but, like, some characters are less obvious in this regard.
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It's already possible to fight and recruit Flan without going any further.
You need to defeat a total of 30 FOEs (not different ones) for Flandre to show up.
Forgot where exactly it lies but I guess you already have the 60 achievements needed to pass through the challenge rock.
I already got 60+ achievements and activated the tunnel that connects that area to the relay point. I also did kill over 30 FOEs a while ago, as I have the achievement for it and the Tokyo Metronome, the +9 TP item you get for doing so.
The funny thing is that I thought that I had seen the boss symbol already when I did all that and I decided to grind some more to prepare for it. By all accounts, it should be there. I'll check again, just to be certain...
Edit: Nope, still not there. Here's some pics to show my situation better...
(http://i.imgur.com/8uyLCums.png) (http://imgur.com/8uyLCum)(http://i.imgur.com/O4fnubcs.png) (http://imgur.com/O4fnubc)(http://i.imgur.com/rfGXcGWs.png) (http://imgur.com/rfGXcGW)(http://i.imgur.com/DAWpv7Fs.png) (http://imgur.com/DAWpv7F)
The 300+ BP for all members.
(http://i.imgur.com/iHNYv7Zs.png) (http://imgur.com/iHNYv7Z)
The achievement for 30 FOEs...
(http://i.imgur.com/pO3JJiPs.png) (http://imgur.com/pO3JJiP)
The fact that I can be at the exact location where she's supposed to appear...
Given all of this, is there something else that I'm missing here?
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Did you recruit both Kanako and Suwako? I think they're necessary. It's either that or some event on 10F-12F that is has something related to Flan.
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There are 2 events related to Flandre.The first one is located on 11F (top-right corner, I think). After that, another event will spawn on 12F (don't remember the exact location, but it shouldn't be hard to find).
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There are 2 events related to Flandre.The first one is located on 11F (top-right corner, I think). After that, another event will spawn on 12F (don't remember the exact location, but it shouldn't be hard to find).
And I actually found it and activated it. Unfortunately, I had already defeated the Mirror and Magatama before hand, and I found the event after crossing the rocks and noticing a red ! that was floating in darkness...
I forgot that unless you get close enough, the event won't show up on your map. Dang...
Still, that does mean that I can still use her against Tenshi, provided I can win the fight, of course...
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I haven't actually tried using Flandre against her, so can't say for sure. But overall, if you get the right party, Tenshi shouldn't be too difficult.
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Playing Labyrinth of Touhou 1, once had a corrupted save file after reaching 25F and grinding at 24F, and now back again.
Beaten Celestial Bright Demon. The strategy is using a baiting team, then Ran, and several nukers. The baits takes the Destroy Magic, then switches to buffers, have Ran buff the offenses of the back lines and having others like Reimu and Yukari buff defenses, and then switching to the baiters again. Rinse and repeat until offenses are maxed out. Then unleash with all you have until it is dead. The problem is Ether Flare, Cry of Anguish, and Shooting Star. The first would wipe the frontline, the others has annoying status.
Now grinding for Baal Avatar, what's the lowest level to beat him by the way? The wiki said the recommended level is 210+.
24F is a good place for grinding. Using Kaguya you can almost wipe every encounters except the dual lanterns. There's also dual jewels that usually would screw me over with double Dual Colorful Light.
For Labyrinth of Touhou 2, where's the best place to grind before tackling the postgame content? Also, any news about the new patch that has Shou and Futo?
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Google translating some stuff on their twitter (and getting a friend who actually knows to doublecheck) says that a while back they said something like "we're still working on it but we've been too lazy to update the site". Unfortunately I haven't seen anything relevant since then.
As for grinding, 20F depths worked well enough for me.
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Also, any news about the new patch that has Shou and Futo?
It is almost certainly going to be an expansion disk, not a free patch.
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Oh well, since it isn't released on Winter Comiket, might as well wait until Reitaisai or even Summer Comiket. Or never be released...
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The whole expansion thing is supposed to be an Append Disk, according to their site, so it'll be like the Plus Disk from the first game from what I understand.
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Okay, just to clear confusion, will we be able to use the old save file on the new version?
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Okay, just to clear confusion, will we be able to use the old save file on the new version?
Almost certainly.
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And Flandre down. Oh dear gods, I can't believe that I managed it, but I did. Bad luck was that she killed Nitori and Wriggle on her first turn with Flamethrower when I was hoping to land one hit before that happened(in hindsight I should of kept them in reserve and switched them in but still...). Good luck was that Kanako, Sanae, and Reimu can all survive almost anything that Flan throws at them, although I have to heal afterward.
But the real surprise was when I sent Mokou to tank Flan's battle ender, and it turned out that both she and Komachi survived it, the latter of which I wasn't expecting, In fact, Komachi dealt the final blow on Flan soon afterwards.
But still, I have Flan, and I think that since Nazrin and Rinnosuke were both alive in reserve when Flan fell, I seem to of got all of the drops from that fight, not that I want to ever do that again. Jeez.
In all honesty, I was kinda expecting her to just full wipe me from the start, as I was five levels below the challenge level, but to have my plans go FUBAR from the get go and still pull it off? Aw man...
There are no words that can describe this...
Edit: For the curious as to who I was using to somehow pull it off...
(http://i.imgur.com/enLnYv2.png)
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Well, congratulations!
I see Aya on your team, what do you use her for? No mentions of her.
Aya is an excellent evasion tank and switcher.
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Well, yes. I did use her to buff my characters for speed and stuff. A pity that I did not realize that Flan would one shot Nitori and Wriggle in her first move(they both had over 100 resist, so it's not a matter of weakness, although maybe front liners need about 160 - 200+ resist to reliably survive it)...
She also can act at the start of any fight, giving me some control over it. And her evasion is very useful, only Flan's battle ending attack could down her.
But, in hindsight, I should of put Mokou up in the initial frontline to take hits and spam her WND move, as it debuffs her ATK and MAG with a high infliction rate, which would of made her attacks easier to survive in the first place. I also should of removed the Healer subclass from Komachi and set her up to use her SPI counterattack, as Flan is weak to SPI in the first place.
I have decided to learn from this and give Reimu the Healer class instead of Magician, as she simply can't get the time to actually use it very well. In fact, in that fight, she couldn't use it at all. I need a character that has Rapid Charge and a lot of spare skillpoints to make proper use of Magician, as Magic Transfer is not truly that effective until you max it out. This actually means that I'll need to get some good TP boosting equips for them...
I need to think a bit, but for now, I have Flan, and she is truly a slayer of everything that she sees. Her equips don't even boost her ATK at all, and she's hitting 4.5K with only 30 Voile level in ATK on a pure ATK build. To put in perspective, everyone else can barely hit 4k, and that's with both the same build, 70 Voile levels, and good Attack boosting equips. If I boost Flan the same way that I boost my other main attackers(ATK, MAG, and SPD at 60 levels each), then she's going to be a real slayer of all enemies in sight. And the funny part is that it doesn't matter which stat I power up, because she'll kill them all either way. I may just switch her level up bonuses to MAG and use any MAG powered subclass spells to crush foes, as her stats are enough to turn even mediocre formulas into enemy slayers(Toxicologist comes to mind, due to the elemental diversity those spells give, and the ailments are mere bonuses to the damage that they'll be dealing). And the best part is that she'll be able to use her L?vatein to full strength regardless of her build.
And now that I have said as such, I need to go and get her all buffed up for the battle against the celestial brat herself. Although...
She might not need much in the way of powering up to send Tenshi crashing into the ground with Starbow Break... Hee hee. :D :D :D :D :D
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Not quite Kirin; Flandre's attack growth is more than 50% higher than her MAG, 20 and 13.5. Flan actually only has a "standard" high-tier MAG like Satori, Marisa, Kanako/Suwako, Alice, etc. Her passive party buff also impacts the ATK stat. Monk or Warrior would still make her a lot more random-battle-friendly though, yeah. (But yes I imagine she'll easily crush Tenshi WELP BYE MISS CELESTIAL. I don't think most people manage to get Flan before that fight...)
I'd recommend Enchanter Reimu over Healer, as it makes her heal buff def/mnd whilst her buff heals a bit; however, if you want the sub's status heal and not just the 24% increased healing then that's pretty good I suppose!
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Well, a high end MAG stat is still good, so she can actually do some damage with the mediocre formulas from the other subclasses. It bothers me that the ATK boosting stuff is much stronger than the MAG boosting stuff. This game is not kind to mages.
Also, the status heal isn't the only reason. I want the single target HP heal as well due to it being cheaper and also being a composite formula, and since I did boost Reimu's ATK via Voile(I actually do use Reimu's Fantasy Seal to clear out floor trash), the single heal will make use of that and the MAG stat, too.
Come to think of it, as crazy as it sounds, Flandre would actually be able to heal insanely well with the Healer subclass spell. The only problem is her surviving long enough to do so, but she is fast, so that might work somehow?
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Flandre wouldn't even survive. The only one she would heal is herself, and then she couldn't keep up with the damage. She's better off dealing damage.
And yes, I think the game is not kind to MAG users. Even in the first game I found the MAG items lacking.
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Lots of people can heal great with the healer subclass, the glass cannons need to be nuking :V The support role is better suited to people who are durable, or at least have a lot of other supportive effects to bring to the table.
And yeah, the ATK gear tends to be more plentiful/better. But, it's not a big deal. It does mean you don't want too many MAG-based attackers in your party though, as you won't be able to dole out good equipment... a well-built party shouldn't end up so one sided though.
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And 12F Tenshi down. And I found that Flan can't even hurt Tenshi unless she's debuffed. WTF?
I did find that I had plenty of characters that can do well in surviving Violent Motherland, and I had never ran into the HP to 1 move that the wiki says that she has. Maybe I killed her too fast?
In hindsight, I think that the advice on having people who pierce defenses without the Monk subclass(Kaguya, Eirin, Reisen, Okuu, Meiling) is indeed sound. She's a real pain otherwise.
Speaking of Kaguya, I gave her the Toxicologist subclass for the CLD element spell, since I knew that her passive would make it so that it could do decent damage for dealing with the 13F floor trash, and it truly does the trick. Of course, Nitori does better as she can crush even CLD resistant foes with her CLD spell, but that's due to her passive and the spell itself being maxed out. Still, I was right about the elemental spread of Toxicologist being of great use in certain cases, and Kaguya proves it.
Also, I'm seeing the hell that is the temperature maze, and it is not pretty. I think that the game expects you to leave the dungeon after setting the temperature, and then come back to enter certain areas. This is going to irritating. Oh well, at least the random battles have new music now, and I actually unlocked the final event to get to Yuuka. I wonder if I should just use Flan on her...
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Eh, 13-15F. Think of it as 10-12F from the first game, except there's also falling into holes. I think Suwako is great for clearing floor trash there, provided you invested magic a little.
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Eh, 13-15F. Think of it as 10-12F from the first game, except there's also falling into holes. I think Suwako is great for clearing floor trash there, provided you invested magic a little.
The Cirno is beyond broken for trash here. Any other character with AoE Water spell cards are good as well.
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LoT1, beaten Baal Avatar, now stuck beating Agastobrauma. Where's the best place to grind in postgame anyway? 24F isn't enough for me...
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LoT1, beaten Baal Avatar, now stuck beating Agastobrauma. Where's the best place to grind in postgame anyway? 24F isn't enough for me...
I get the impression you don't have access to 27F, but to address the question of best postgame grinding spot, that'd be my answer. That is, unless you're powerful enough to faceroll 30F. You face enemies on 27F called "Lilith", I believe, that give a ridiculous amount of skill points, and are pretty common. Plus, some decent drops occur (like fusion titanium alloy) and can pile up pretty fast. I grinded out at least 100 levels and a few million skill points (mainly from letting materials pile up and selling in big quantities) on that level. Music is recommended!
Veto
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LoT1, beaten Baal Avatar, now stuck beating Agastobrauma. Where's the best place to grind in postgame anyway? 24F isn't enough for me...
What level are you? I don't remember having to grind a whole lot until after I got Eiki for the expansion.
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Lowest level is Rinnosuke at lv198, and then I have Remi at lv204 and Patchy at lv205.
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Lowest level is Rinnosuke at lv198, and then I have Remi at lv204 and Patchy at lv205.
How many stars do you have? I think I had 4-5 when I first started the expansion.
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How many stars do you have? I think I had 4-5 when I first started the expansion.
5 Stars, how else am I stuck at Agastobrauma? To get there it requires 4 stars to enter.
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That is a bit low level when you get to the mid 20 floors, but 210 should be doable on floor 25.
Make sure you have good elemental resistances, I think he deals a lot of wind damage, and then some death and other aliment resistance gear.
Mystia is good for getting rid of bad statuses.
Don't forget to debuff him, and Tenshi is good for getting rid of his buffs as well. Getting yourself buffed up is a high priority.
If you are dieing to raw damage, keep out a Def/Mnd Buffer a lot of the time like Reimu or Yukari to keep it up.
The fight will probably take more than 15 mins before level 220, so be prepared.
You might actually have to grind out for items more than levels for a bit to make sure you have everything you need.
I did that for the initial Yuyuko fight since I would always lose to her instant death more than anything until I got several death resistance items.
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You're a bit low levelled (your reference level is generally Reimu's though) so you're going to have to grind sooner or later. 20F is still honestly the best spot to do that, iirc the randoms don't really start giving more experience yet? Although they -do- have nicer gear drops on the next floor. Although even if you beat Agastrobrauma, the next floor is a step up in random battle difficulty, and the boss there is much harder as well.
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Aaaaaand Agastobrauma defeated, and got the loot! The level is Reimu lv. 226 by the way.
The fight is really luck based though, once it starts using Strengthen Jutsu it's the matter of it using weak Plasma Touch or unleashing deadly multi-target magic attacks.
Mystia proves to be really useful in the battle, healing any status ailments the party might had. I gave her some speed items for healing needs.
And so, off to the next challenges!
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And Yuuka down. And I won using the power of kappa, surprisingly enough, since Nitori can hit with a weakness and actually hit as hard with her CLD spell as Flandre does with Levatein. Does the CLD Damage Boost and maxing the spell out really make that much of a difference? Much as I would like to say yes, I can't shake the feeling that Yuuka is actually weaker to CLD than FIR. Nitori also had around 4k ATK power which is the same as Flandre at the time, and well...
Here are the formulas, straight from the wiki...
Nitori's formula:
((110% ATK) - (50% T.DEF)) * (1.805 + (0.095 * SLv))
Flandre's formula:
((180% ATK + 180 MAG) - (50% T.DEF)) * (2.28 + (0.12 * Slv))
...and I just read the entry for the Yuuka fight and she is indeed weaker to CLD than FIR. Fancy that.
Still, it's odd to me that Nitori is matching Flandre in terms of damage here. Makes me curious as to how powerful Levatein would be if I leveled it up to maximum, given the damage multiplier...
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Aaaaaand Agastobrauma defeated, and got the loot! The level is Reimu lv. 226 by the way.
The fight is really luck based though, once it starts using Strengthen Jutsu it's the matter of it using weak Plasma Touch or unleashing deadly multi-target magic attacks.
Mystia proves to be really useful in the battle, healing any status ailments the party might had. I gave her some speed items for healing needs.
And so, off to the next challenges!
I'm surprised you didn't have any debuffers/ Tenshi to deal with Strengthen Jutsu. I always hated that move so I was really happy I kept Alice throughout the game when I realized she can help negate its effectiveness.
Also what? Status Ailments? Shouldn't you have been geared to be nearly immune to them by now? At the very least, the people meant to be taking hits should already be immune to them by now. I remember my main problem with the fight was me simply lacking the stats to handle it.
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Still, it's odd to me that Nitori is matching Flandre in terms of damage here.
Surprising, but if Yuuka takes 50% more damage or more from CLD than FIR, plus Nitori's passive boosting CLD damage by I think 30% at max... (and I guess maxing it is also like 20% more damage)
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I'm surprised you didn't have any debuffers/ Tenshi to deal with Strengthen Jutsu. I always hated that move so I was really happy I kept Alice throughout the game when I realized she can help negate its effectiveness.
Also what? Status Ailments? Shouldn't you have been geared to be nearly immune to them by now? At the very least, the people meant to be taking hits should already be immune to them by now. I remember my main problem with the fight was me simply lacking the stats to handle it.
I did use Tenshi and Reisen, but they died later in the battle. And for the status ailment, it's hard to gear up everyone to protect all status ailments without losing important stats, so yeah, I need status healers for mainly healing the nukers. By the way, I'm using Iku as a tank.
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I did use Tenshi and Reisen, but they died later in the battle. And for the status ailment, it's hard to gear up everyone to protect all status ailments without losing important stats, so yeah, I need status healers for mainly healing the nukers. By the way, I'm using Iku as a tank.
I don't know, I never had problems getting everyone meant to take hits to be immune to status ailments while still having the necessary defensive stats. Maybe its just confirmation bias doing its thing to me, but I want to say I remember not worrying about status ailments when I got that far into the Plus Disk.
And Iku as a tank is exactly how I'd be using her. Buffers = tanks as far as I'm concerned unless they're self buffs, but even then, there are self buff tanks (Hey there Remilia, I'm glad you're enjoying your stay on my endgame party).
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Has there been new information on the expansion of LoT2?
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Nothing on his site.
A quick search of his twitter shows a long multipart tweet that mentions LoT2, made about 14 hours ago. I think he's talking about game balance, possibly to avoiding the massive level inflation from LoT1's plus disk? I can't say for sure with just google.
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The developer says that the game was balanced so that
Beginning : Doable with spell attacks.
Mid-game : Doable by properly allocating level-up bonuses to attackers.
End-game : Doable with above + hitting weaknesses.
But in the Plus Disk, the developer will balance the game so that it will be hard without proper preparations,
and for rare enemies, there might be casualties even with proper preparations.
To balance this out, the developer will reduce encounter rates and give more experience points so that it changes from
'10 to 30 battles per 1 exploration' to 'party is almost wiped out after 10 battles due to TP reduction, but uses less time battling because of above changes.'
This is about non-boss enemies, by the way.
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But in the Plus Disk, the developer will balance the game so that it will be hard without proper preparations,
and for rare enemies, there might be casualties even with proper preparations.
To balance this out, the developer will reduce encounter rates and give more experience points so that it changes from
'10 to 30 battles per 1 exploration' to 'party is almost wiped out after 10 battles due to TP reduction, but uses less time battling because of above changes.'
Okay, now that's gonna be frustrating. If this was LoT1 people would rage away from all the lost experiences.
Well, at least we can level up fast.
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That sounds great, really. Random battles are more of a chore than anything else and grinding is meh. This way, even if the time vs. experience ratio is meh at the start, once you can overwhelm them the grinding speed is much higher. (Of course, this game uses level limits, but even hard mode is lifted for post game.)
And also, more interesting random fights! Although, if it was just from TP reduction... well, less grind in your exploration either way.
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I Still have false hopes for rebalance
Glares at nitori*
Stares at underused/Weak characters*
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Just curious, which characters would you say are not worth using? (Anyone can answer though of course)
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Honestly? Chen, Remilia, Marisa, and Utsuho. Well, Marisa has some good use early on but falls down for better Magic damage dealers. Chen just doesn't have the damage output to be useful, Utsuho's damage dealing leaves a lot more to be desired, and Remilia is...well Remilia.
I'd add more, but I think that's more I never really used them often enough. I guess I could add Tenshi to the list too. She's good for both DEF and MND tanking, but usually you only need one or the other in fights, and in that case, there are better choices.
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The developer says that the game was balanced so that
Beginning : Doable with spell attacks.
Mid-game : Doable by properly allocating level-up bonuses to attackers.
End-game : Doable with above + hitting weaknesses.
But in the Plus Disk, the developer will balance the game so that it will be hard without proper preparations,
and for rare enemies, there might be casualties even with proper preparations.
To balance this out, the developer will reduce encounter rates and give more experience points so that it changes from
'10 to 30 battles per 1 exploration' to 'party is almost wiped out after 10 battles due to TP reduction, but uses less time battling because of above changes.'
This is about non-boss enemies, by the way.
The End Game difficulty spike for LoT2 was BS and uneven though. The random encounters had the enemies just become super fast and have insane defense all of a sudden at the beginning , and the same goes to the enhanced bosses. Fist 5 enhanced bosses were a jump in difficulty, but after you could beat them the next set of bosses were not that much harder but the trash would still wreck you for being so damn fast.
From my experience and from what I have read in previous threads, the enhanced bosses on floor 20 were actually harder than the deformed and secret bosses. Hell it only took me 2 tries to beat the enhanced last boss, and like 20 for the god damn enhanced mirror. I was expecting something like Meribel ver 2, and all I got was a Yukari ver 2.
You had to level way past the challenge level just to get the necessary level up points and money to level up your stats. In the main game the only time I was really over the challenge level for fighting a boss was Yuuka, and even then I only had my library stats at about half of my levels. I needed to go over 1.2 my level for End Game, and that took more time to get the money for it than the actual leveling
The difficulty curve for the main game was pretty good I think, though I think that it could have been smoothed out a bit once you get to floor 16. That and floor 20 depths should have been harder I think for the experience you get and when compared to the difficulty spike for the last boss and end game.
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sad thing is, i use marisa, remilia and utsuho, IMO it goes like this for me Remilia>Utsuho>marisa, marisa almost never used or dumped, remilia is for bosses and utsuho for thrash clear or to pierce the mirror/magatama
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Hello, I am new to this forum. I really like Touhou series and I look forward to new official games and fangames every now and then.
Well, back to the topic, I really enjoy Labyrinth of Touhou 2. It is really a huge improvement over the previous game, particularly the character artwork and dungeon, though there is some issues with the game.
About the character not worth using, Chen - Limited MP means useless in boss fight. (Unlike the previous game where you can spam it numerous times). Nazrin - Honestly, I don't really see much different from the bonus reward.
Rinnosuke - Even with High Boost skill, his stats are still so-so.
Remilia is actually great for tanking boss attack and. What makes her different from Kasen that she has Last Fortress which makes her even more bulkier aside from buffing herself while Kasen have to make her bulky with her spell.
I tried using Remilia with ATK, DEF and MND spread equally and fight against some post-game bossses. I buffed Remilia stats up and switch her in the back row and let all of my party die, leaving only Remilia. The result? she takes 0 Damage from all enemy attacks, tanking like Tenshi while she casually spear the enemies until it dies. (Well, except for the boss that has Regeneration). Kasen doesn't have that skill so she still takes a lot of damage.
That is to say, I think that Remilia is for tanking and inflicting consistent damage, while Kasen is for elemental varieties and dealing one-hit huge damage.
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What i really want (Besides some balancing) Its to fix the SDM residents passive not giving Speed, and i believe meiling got one bugged passive too, thats all i ask :V
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The End Game difficulty spike for LoT2 was BS and uneven though.
Mm, the end game puts a big focus on the difficulty being based around not a good team, but an -ideal- team. You have to be doing stuff like debuffing even the resistant bosses to hell (because with certain characters you -totally- can, and it makes a wooooorld of difference) and using mind ignoring characters on the ones with insurmountable defenses, etc.
So, for most teams, it just becomes stupid hard, even if it's a well-made team that took you through the maingame just great. You can totally do it at the challenge level without toooo much trouble, but you HAVE to use an ideal team rather than just characters you like that make a pretty good team.
As for enemy speed, maybe you weren't paying enough attention to library levels in speed or your team was mostly really slow? o.o I had trouble with enemy speed in the last non-postgame stratum but that's because I was sitting on like 90%+ of the money I'd made all game because I stubbornly wished to get the massive yen achievement. The moment I spent it randoms became really easy again. Postgame randoms, you just need to be able to deal with the high def/mnd ones, because the game just doesn't let you progress without someone who can ignore a heavy chunk of that- and even monk's mountain breaker will not cut it anymore.
I'd say Utsuho isn't -useless-, partially because Giga Flare is one of those precious piercing moves, but I do admit that I honestly don't think she's very good otherwise. Chen probably has to be built very specifically in order to pump numbers out, but I wouldn't write her off until I tried her in such a build. (aka, pump her ATK base value, as it's super duper low and therefore gets a heavy increase when tweaked) Overall though, she struggles to output damage and it makes her not very good. :T (The MP really, really is not the issue.) I hear Yukari's team nuke kicks butt, though.
Rinnosuke, I used all game (he was just for the yen/item boost for awhile obviously, but) and he's pretty solid once you get the high boosts going. You have to give him manuals to unlock his other ones; speed boost and resistance boost are pretty neat. And of course, he hungers for a subclass with moves he doesn't have to dump 25 points into to become not-useless.
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Welcome to MotK, Kageshirou. We hope that you enjoy the forum and your stay here in general, as there is no exit from the Touhou fandom...
Back on topic, Chen is often not considered useful due to either MP problems or due to not being able to deal enough damage. The former can be solved by using MP boosting equipment or giving her Hexer's Conversion from the Hexer sub-class. As for the latter, though...
I will say it once, and I will say it a thousand times. Why does Chen not have the skill Piercing Attack? If she had that, then it would remove the only flaw in her playstyle of rapid attack spamming, and let her grind everything that she claws on to nothing. Essentially, a Chensaw.
As for Remilia, she is a very good attacker that can endure well, and if issues with her current skillset is a problem, then giving her the Warrior or Monk subclass and their spells should solve that issue.
Marisa also benefits from a subclass for the sake of making her more useful, essentially since she can actually be useful as a Mind Tank with some boosting in HP and her affinities in Voile(boosting a 90 affinity to 100 takes 12 levels, so boosting from 88 shouldn't be much of a issue) and a First Aid Kit, along with the appropriate sub-equips. As for her Ailment Resistances, a Resist Tome may be needed to help in that problem, as 10 + 15(from the tome) = 25, which raises them from 'abysmal' to 'workable if you have some ailment resistance equipment', and her Lively and Healthy skill can also help against everything outside of instant death. Sub-classes that can help her include Sorcerer(for helping further in her damaging potential), Toxicologist (giving her utility against enemies thanks to the ailment piercing Sheer Force), and Hexer (same as Toxicologist, but with debuffs).
And Utsuho... Sigh. She's kind of a character that needs to be developed a lot to get what you really need out of her(Resist and Affinity Tomes are needed to help fix her weak points, along with a heavy investment via Voile). And in all honesty, I don't use her much at all. Personally, though, I wish that they did three things to her spells:
1. Make it so that Giga Flare ignore ALL of the enemies Mind again, because nerfing said spell to not do so simply does not make sense at all.
2. Alter the Intense Nuclear Reaction spell so that it would buff, rather than debuff, speed, as well as increasing the buffing that it would give per use by leveling up the spell itself, as it currently doesn't do that.
3. Either raise the attack multipler on Hell's Tokamak to 124% MAG instead of 90% MAG, or have it debuff all stats by (11 + SLV)%, rather than debuffing (18 +(SLv * 2))% Mind.
I could say more, but I'm going to need time to think on it...
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Since Giga Flare only factors 10% of enemy mind compared to the usual (This is the same as Kaguya with her ignore passive on!) it only really matters if the enemy is supposed to be invincible. But yeah, Utsuho is usable, she just needs some work. Unfortunately, the only reason you'd put in that work is if you REALLY liked her... or already used Orin and Satori. Utsuho isn't too bad, she's just not particularly great at her job either.
Marisa can MND tank for Hexer+Sheer Force synergy, but I'd sooner use Kogasa for that kind of purpose. Still, whilst the mnd vs def balance is a lot different in this game, there's still plenty of bosses where a MND type can manage fine.
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Can someone tell me how to get rid of the
Debug Assertion Failed! when I try to run the 1203 English version.
I've been looking through the posts and cannot find a step by step solution to this.
(Changing off Read-Only does NOT work as it will just refresh back)
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Mm, the end game puts a big focus on the difficulty being based around not a good team, but an -ideal- team. You have to be doing stuff like debuffing even the resistant bosses to hell (because with certain characters you -totally- can, and it makes a wooooorld of difference) and using mind ignoring characters on the ones with insurmountable defenses, etc.
So, for most teams, it just becomes stupid hard, even if it's a well-made team that took you through the maingame just great. You can totally do it at the challenge level without toooo much trouble, but you HAVE to use an ideal team rather than just characters you like that make a pretty good team.
As for enemy speed, maybe you weren't paying enough attention to library levels in speed or your team was mostly really slow? o.o I had trouble with enemy speed in the last non-postgame stratum but that's because I was sitting on like 90%+ of the money I'd made all game because I stubbornly wished to get the massive yen achievement. The moment I spent it randoms became really easy again. Postgame randoms, you just need to be able to deal with the high def/mnd ones, because the game just doesn't let you progress without someone who can ignore a heavy chunk of that- and even monk's mountain breaker will not cut it anymore.
Even with an ideal team it is retardedly uneven difficulty, and speed was one of the first things I leveled on any character, post game enemies were still stupid fast until I got my library levels in check for it. My library levels for the main game were extremely low compared to most people, my highest stat was probably around 60. I also had the right characters for ignoring specific defenses or targeting certain weaknesses. I had to debuff and buff like crazy because my levels were already so low.
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Since Giga Flare only factors 10% of enemy mind compared to the usual (This is the same as Kaguya with her ignore passive on!) it only really matters if the enemy is supposed to be invincible. But yeah, Utsuho is usable, she just needs some work. Unfortunately, the only reason you'd put in that work is if you REALLY liked her... or already used Orin and Satori. Utsuho isn't too bad, she's just not particularly great at her job either.
Marisa can MND tank for Hexer+Sheer Force synergy, but I'd sooner use Kogasa for that kind of purpose. Still, whilst the mnd vs def balance is a lot different in this game, there's still plenty of bosses where a MND type can manage fine.
Yeah, I can see why you would want to use Kogasa over Marisa for a Hexer + Sheer Force, due to her leveling and the fact that she uses ATK for her attacking stat, even if it means that the Hexer's spells end up doing virtually no damage(Ironically, if effect matters more damage, then Toxicologist would work on Kogasa for the same reason).
Still, between Marisa's speed and the fact that she can be built easily via Voile to have no weaknesses does give her a usefulness over some of the other Mind tanks you would have on hand for a good deal of the game(looks at Patchouli).
Finally, I actually am curious to where I can put the general knowledge of "As a rule of thumb, if a character has a elemental resist of 88 or up but under 100, it can and should be fixed via Voile leveling as soon as possible. Any lower, and the cost will end up burning a hole in your wallet very quickly." in the wiki. I mean, it's a bit of knowledge that's helpful to know out of the the view that many characters have stats of that nature and can thus be patched up to have far fewer weaknesses then they would have otherwise. Characters like Hina and Parsee can end up with only one weakness under said method, and characters like Marisa and Kanako can end up with no weaknesses at all.
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Is there a benefit to beating the final boss of LoT2 at the "par" level? I've beaten all the other bosses at that level for the stat-up items, but since the final boss drops one in either case, is there any benefit for taking on the challenge?
Thanks for any info,
Veto
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It drops another one if beaten at that level, and continues to serve as the guideline of when you should fight it at for the intended challenge... as well as being a hard-stop wall in Hard Mode. But of course, if you're not in Hard Mode, there's nothing stopping you from overlevelling to blow it out of the park. You can even refight it, so you don't really need to beat it at challenge level for a gem. (It's not a very time-efficient task to farm it for them though, since you have to replay the credits each time.)
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It drops another one if beaten at that level, and continues to serve as the guideline of when you should fight it at for the intended challenge... as well as being a hard-stop wall in Hard Mode. But of course, if you're not in Hard Mode, there's nothing stopping you from overlevelling to blow it out of the park. You can even refight it, so you don't really need to beat it at challenge level for a gem. (It's not a very time-efficient task to farm it for them though, since you have to replay the credits each time.)
Or have 4-5 members at max level and Nuke it in a single move (Everyone else at 1 for challenge level)
Loving Awakening Herb(Meiling)+Attack Buff (even better if its casted several times due to sakuya passives)+Leavetin/Starbow Break (Flanfre), With remilia (Strategist Attack buff) And SDM Bonus
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Understood, thanks for the information.
Wait, did I hear "max level"? Don't tell me they threw in a cap. The OCD grinder in me would weep.
Veto
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He probably just means as high as their EXP allows. Although you'll have trouble getting much past 200 in any case.
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Is LoT 2 worth it? I've never played a single LoT and I hear it's fun but...if I want to get into it should I play 1 first or...what?
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Nah. You can play LoT2 and not miss out on anything.
In other news, beat the Giant and the Judge(Eiki) and I have a few things to say about it.
1. Since beating the Giant was easy due to Tenshi, I'll just say something about her. Tenshi is far from bad in the HP department, although she's one of the few people that benefits from a HP build for this reason. Also, if you have a spare tome for HP Boost, giving one to her is a good idea, as she can and does tank everything that doesn't pierce her defenses easily otherwise.
2. The Judge, on the other hand, was only simple due to the fact that I used a strategy from Gesh86's walkthrough, and it worked beautifully. And I should note that a ATK build Monk Suwako is good for this fight, due to her "NTR Damage Boost" passive powering up all NTR attacks, including Iron Mountain Charge. I also used Kaguya and found that her NTR atttack spell went from 30k to 40k thanks to said passive, so it's worth it to use said passive for boosting damage.
3. That said, I completely forgot that the Judge had a fire weakness, but considering the strategy that I was using, it wouldn't of done much good.
Now then, as for me, onwards to Yukari!
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Is LoT 2 worth it? I've never played a single LoT and I hear it's fun but...if I want to get into it should I play 1 first or...what?
You don't need to play the 1st one. It's a bit harder than the 2nd, only because the sequel has Anti-Frustration Features. The 1st one is simpler though.
Now, I'm playing LoT1 focusing on completing Plus Disk. Now I'm grinding like hell in 27F just to get on Utsuho.
The level jump is very high. Could you possibly beat them at a lower level?
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Now, I'm playing LoT1 focusing on completing Plus Disk. Now I'm grinding like hell in 27F just to get on Utsuho.
The level jump is very high. Could you possibly beat them at a lower level?
Honestly, it doesn't really matter at that point; beating them at a lower level (depending on what yours is?) is doable but just an exercise in frustration due to how her fight works, Utsuho is a contender for most useless character in the game when recruited, and you have nothing ahead of you but hours of grinding regardless. Although, if you haven't done 28~29f, there's always going through those for a change of pace. 29f is actually a breath of fresh air; it's neat but not difficult or very long to explore.
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Question to the folks who fought Ame no Murakumo: does it just drop gems, or is there a chance for it to drop a training manual?
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Question to the folks who fought Ame no Murakumo: does it just drop gems, or is there a chance for it to drop a training manual?
It drops both.....Unless i am wrong, but i am pretty sure it dropped both
When at challenge level-> 2 items i believe (Must check again)
Above Challenge level->1 item
I Always got 1 manual and 1 gem
EDIT: RESULTS
(http://i.imgur.com/iJTii0J.png)
This is My Ame Enhanced Farming Frontline (Both Arms Die to Flandre Leavetin, 2M Damage or something around that, and leaves sword with about 30% Hp
(http://i.imgur.com/xmQobLl.png)
Might start considering using rinnosuke on the future, havent touched the game in ages :V
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And now I've reached the end of the road for LoT1. Blazing through everything with Chen and Aya. What lies ahead is insane amounts of grinding that will make me bored and possibly fell asleep for, yeah I did fell asleep sometimes, damn insane grinding. Grinding in 29F is very possible with only a lv270-ish team.
Of note: My skill points is f***ed up. I filled everyone's stats on a certain limit, starting from Reimu to the last character, then restarts with a higher limit. That spread bites me later on, I don't have good stats to survive, but with much grinding from those Liliths, I'm now at a good shape now, maybe.
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Unless my memory fails me, i only grinded 27F for the liliths, them Went to 30F and tackled the V3 bosses, They have the best end-game drops, IMO the most worthy to farm are: (Enemy Name,Item Name,Item Effect)
Rinnosuke: Awakened ExoSkeleton,All Stats+150%,All Status Res+15,All Aff+60
Yukari: Inmortal School Badge,HP,ATK,SPD+240%,TP+30,All Status Res+16
Yuuka: Rhododendron Dress,ATK,MAG,MND+200%,SP,SPD+100%,WND,NTR Aff+128,REC+16%,PSN,PAR,SIL Res+18
Alice: Necronomicon,MAG+150%,MND+300%,MYS Aff+300,DTH Res+50
Utsuho: Psycho Gun,ATK+100%,DEF+140%,MAG+180%,MND+220%,PSN,PAR,DTH Res+30
Kaguya (Eientei Team): Egg,HP+80%,SP+100,MAG+350, REC+24%,FIR,CLD,WND,NTR Aff+128,Death,DBF Res+50
And outfitted my whole team with those kind of drops (Too bad i cheesed out the last boss with renko PAR, i am such a coward :ohdear:)
Now Talking About LoT2,has Anybody tried a warrior MANnosuke? Or he just good as a tank?
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Now Talking About LoT2,has Anybody tried a warrior MANnosuke? Or he just good as a tank?
I gave him all of the high boost skills and Warrior just to see his stats.
http://i.imgur.com/349qIpl.png
http://i.imgur.com/ISzBHEZ.png Sakuya, for comparison, also a warrior; using MP, ATK, and SPD boost at lv 5. No gems used.
My takeaway was that if you invest a ton in him... his attack stats will still be worse than most other dedicated attackers, and he'll lack the skills to help him offensively. Sakuya's stats are marginally better, but she also has piercing attack and the amazing extra attack on top of that.
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well time to put kaguya or BrokenJesus back, i wished nitori sold those boost manuals,there arent even 12 of each available (for a good price of course, like 200-300k each?)
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well time to put kaguya or BrokenJesus back, i wished nitori sold those boost manuals,there arent even 12 of each available (for a good price of course, like 200-300k each?)
Yeah, I can relate to that.
Quick questions about NG+: First, is it accessible after beating the regular Ame no Murakumo? Second, if one does do a NG+, do you keep the tomes, gems and equipment that you obtained beforehand? And third, on said NG+, do the treasures that you have collected reappear to be collected again?
I gave him all of the high boost skills and Warrior just to see his stats.
http://i.imgur.com/349qIpl.png
http://i.imgur.com/ISzBHEZ.png Sakuya, for comparison, also a warrior; using MP, ATK, and SPD boost at lv 5. No gems used.
My takeaway was that if you invest a ton in him... his attack stats will still be worse than most other dedicated attackers, and he'll lack the skills to help him offensively. Sakuya's stats are marginally better, but she also has piercing attack and the amazing extra attack on top of that.
Personally, I wished that they gave Rinnosuke the power to use two subclasses to make up for his lack of offensive skills. He does have skills that help him out as a support, but for anything else, subclasses are needed. And some subclasses could work very well together when combined(Warrior + Monk, Healer + Enhancer, Sorcerer + Toxicologist or Hexer, etc.), which would help him out a lot.
I also would wish that they would unlock all of Rinnosuke's High Boosts from the start, so you don't need to give him any books to unlock them. And I wished that he could make all gems, training manuals, and passive boosts from the subclasses count for twice the amount that they would normally give otherwise when used on him. If he had all of that, he could become able to power up all of his boosts and beat anyone with raw stats. provided you get the right stuff for him.
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Yeah, I can relate to that.
Quick questions about NG+: First, is it accessible after beating the regular Ame no Murakumo? Second, if one does do a NG+, do you keep the tomes, gems and equipment that you obtained beforehand? And third, on said NG+, do the treasures that you have collected reappear to be collected again?
IIRC, it's only characters, and that's only if you choose yes when the game asks.
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IIRC, it's only characters, and that's only if you choose yes when the game asks.
Didnt someone said NG+ was bugged,making the enhanced bosses not appear due to challenges of "Having all characters" Completing? I think you need to get the NG+ provided here that doesnt come with maribel and renko in order to avoid that
Time for some more questions~!
-Who do you guys think is more tanky? Mokou Or byakuren? (When i am using byakuren i feel like i am cheating sometimes)
-How Is yukari Compared to her LoT1 Self? (Talking about her MND tankyness and Spiriting Away spam)
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Time for some more questions~!
-Who do you guys think is more tanky? Mokou Or byakuren? (When i am using byakuren i feel like i am cheating sometimes)
-How Is yukari Compared to her LoT1 Self? (Talking about her MND tankyness and Spiriting Away spam)
1. I think Byakuren's more tanky, especially with her passives. Even better, she can pass on her buffs to others with her spell.
2. Her tankiness is still roughly the same, but the Spiriting Away spam isn't good anymore. It depletes all her MP just for a shorter delay, which is not that worth it. If you're using Spiriting Away, then you have to swap Yukari for someone else, since she's useless without MP.
Update on me: The long way of grinding is so long, I don't even reach the level to grind 30F yet. Still I made an achievement. I was able to beat Suwako ver.3 by only using a 290-ish team.
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Didnt someone said NG+ was bugged,making the enhanced bosses not appear due to challenges of "Having all characters" Completing? I think you need to get the NG+ provided here that doesnt come with maribel and renko in order to avoid that
IIRC it was the Deformed Bosses that bugged out thanks to the Sealing Club, and you can do NG+ without Maribel and Renko just by doing an NG+ after beating Ame-no-Murakamo but before beating the enhanced version of it.
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If you really want to make Rinnosuke an attacker, his selling point is how high his durability still is in an offensive build... after you get enough points. That's a -lot- of points, though. It's much more realistic to make him a support, where he can reach top-grade tankiness whilst there's still time to use it. Unfortunately his innate skills take too many skillpoints to become decent, too... but subclass 3 point cost skills can get the job done.
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Before my hdd borked I had super super grinded on my LoT2 and spent loads of monies on my characters at the Volie. Almost everyone's elemental affinities were around 54-84 on average. (Characters like Komachi was about 80-90 for every affinity). And I also leveled up normal stats to around 100-200. Yeah, I went ham on farming.
Even after that, some bosses were still hard and I had to not be stupid.
Anyway, I really like Rinnosuke as a monk. Gave him a bunch of training manuals (I still haven't given him enough) and watch him do some fairy decent damage while also being durable as heck and having some pretty strong heals. I love Monk Rinnosuke.
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Well, don't I feel silly. For the longest time, I've always thought that the game moves too quickly for me to see the damage text, both on enemies and on me. Today I learned that the game speed can be manipulated by the refresh rate of my monitor. I'm pretty sensitive to frame rates in most modern 3D games, so I have a monitor whose refresh rate is at 144Hz, for the extra smoothness. What this means is, I'm running super turbo mode LoT2. Great for grinding levels though, no doubt.
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So a while back, someone (I forget who) posted a charagraph pack for LoT2 using the images from Puppet Dance Performance. I went and adapted those images in turn to LoT1:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ddpogo2ubf1m7q8/PDP_CharaGraph.rar
I'm not 100% happy with how I sized the large faces, and may redo them later, but I was throwing this together quickly to use on a draft run I'm slowly picking away at with a friend.
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I still find funny How:
-At LoT1 Rinnosuke (A Human/Half Human?) Uses The Ame No Murakumo, Becoming a 18F Boss, with a buttload of unfair advantages Like 8 forms And World Shaking Military rule, and can easily wipe out the party
At LoT2 Tenshi (Celestial Youkai) Finds it And Ends at most on F12, Despite Having 2 LEGENDARY SWORDS, she ends up being much easier than Mannosuke and running most of the time from yukari/Eiki/Byakuren/Yuyuko chasing party
Will see the charagraph posted above, thankies :3
I checked it and i find the faces fine IMO, nothing wrong with them for me
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A friend of mine actually suggested I should death the magatama/mirror shadow. It it indeed possible without intense vertigo/toxicologist, but the chances are incredibly slim.
Sorry if I am bringing up an old topic, but these bosses are completely brick walling me. You are referring to the enhanced mirror and magatama from the post-game, right? If so, are you sure that instant death works on them? I must have tried lv5 Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana on them at least 70 times to no effect. I even have Yuyuko as a toxicologist and Reisen's intense vertigo to help out.
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The chances are probably so incredibly bad you have to be crazy lucky for it to happen.
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Well, I just beat the mirror without abusing death. All I'll say is that silence and debuffs are your lifelines in that fight. I'm not sure about my chances with the magatama though. Does anyone have any advice?
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What I usually do is having Ran buff everyone up with her spell + the skill that makes whole party buffed. Make sure to improve her MP and MP recovery. I also have Reimu for defensive buffs and healing. Pretty much Reimu and Ran were integral part of the team until Byakuren gains the neccesary passives.
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Got two bugged rocks in LT2 postgame content.
Does anybody know what can be done to fix this?
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp54/The_Fallen_BMXer/Untitled-1.jpg)
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Got two bugged rocks in LT2 postgame content.
Does anybody know what can be done to fix this?
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp54/The_Fallen_BMXer/Untitled-1.jpg)
Are you sure you updated to the latest translation patch? The last one was supposed to have fixed the post game bugs such as these.
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Thanks, that worked.
Did I have to install the previous patch first, though?
Asking since after installing translation v1.2.03 I got some untranslated text in Reimu's Shrine...
EDIT:
Yay, got all achievements and explored everything!... Or so I think... After defeating the Enhanced Boss Rush I got the "After defeating the bosses the Great Tree changed [...]" message.
I looked around and didn't notice anything different. Does anyone know what changes after defeating the EBR?
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I believe that unlocks 4 more postgame bosses. They're in the postgame floors.
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If you are talking about the ones leading to Enhanced Ame-no-Murakumo then I beat them before the EBR, so that's not it...
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Beating the EBR, other than giving you another Great Question Mask and the achievement for beating it. Nothing really changes.
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Then why does that message pop up?
That is bugging the crap out of me!
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Hello! I picked this game up again recently, and as I'm going through I have a couple of questions.
I know Minoriko does really well as a tanky healer (I loved her in LoT1), but assuming I want to build her like a nuke mage, is her 10 mp move strong enough to put out nice numbers? I was just wondering since I rather like the look of it.
My other question is similar, in that assuming I have Wriggle and Satori out on the frontline, would Satori be able to take advantage of Nightbug Tornado, seeing as she probably has better attack and more incentive to build offensively? Just wondering. I'm only at 3f right now, anyway. Thanks!
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Minoriko does a fairly good number (700-800 with lv 12 and voile lv 12) and also she is a decent sweeper for the next dungeon.
For the other question, I have tested it on the 4th floor with an enemy weak to Nature. I don't know if this is good or not. Satori did a little more damage (600-700) compared to Wriggle (550-650). Both are ATK-build and equally leveled.
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So a while back, someone (I forget who) posted a charagraph pack for LoT2 using the images from Puppet Dance Performance. I went and adapted those images in turn to LoT1:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ddpogo2ubf1m7q8/PDP_CharaGraph.rar
I'm not 100% happy with how I sized the large faces, and may redo them later, but I was throwing this together quickly to use on a draft run I'm slowly picking away at with a friend.
As a followup: the Marisa and Tenshi small portraits in here has a transparency bug I didn't catch because I was testing it on my draft run where I didn't use Marisa and didn't notice on Tenshi, whoops. I'll fix it and reupload when I can, probably won't be for a couple days that I can find the time though! Sorry.
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Hey there, been long time.
Very hefty grinding in LoT1 here, and there's no sign of it getting easier. 30F still have challenges, although I can defeat some of them, but not fast enough.
Meanwhile I have already defeated 3 of the 4 Ver. 2 Bloodstained Seal Bosses. More grinding in order here... What a drag.
As of this post Reimu is at Lv 385.
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Hey there, been long time.
Very hefty grinding in LoT1 here, and there's no sign of it getting easier. 30F still have challenges, although I can defeat some of them, but not fast enough.
Meanwhile I have already defeated 3 of the 4 Ver. 2 Bloodstained Seal Bosses. More grinding in order here... What a drag.
As of this post Reimu is at Lv 385.
Keep it up! 27F is your best friend, due to Liliths. In order for farming to become more efficient on 30F (ie not really having to think about the fights), it's still quite a long ways. I think I'm about level 650 on Reimu, and it's still a bit of a toss-up between the two spots. Insta-kill in 1 turn on 27F for ~100k exp / SP, or spend 5-15 turns on 30F for about a million. The former certainly requires less thought, but the latter has good gear drops.
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At lv650 if the battles are taking 5~15 turns on anything other than the absolute worst fights then your front 4 grind people aren't very good XD
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Yeah, at level 650, all fights should take 2 turns or less in floor 30. Some fights might take a bit more, but no more than 5 turns.
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Is there a cheat table for this game yet as I never liked grinding out battle points more some so in single character play throughs.
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Is there a cheat table for this game yet as I never liked grinding out battle points more some so in single character play throughs.
Please check the very first post of this thread. It has everything there, including what you seek. There's no cheat table for Labyrinth of Touhou 2 though...
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At lv650 if the battles are taking 5~15 turns on anything other than the absolute worst fights then your front 4 grind people aren't very good XD
Could be less, haven't played in a while. I do keep a perfectly even (in terms of cost) distribution of all skill levels, except evasion and useless stats (like ATK for Marisa), where most people will pump 90% of their SP into offense. Just personal preference, but yeah, not the most efficient. It certainly pays off in final boss replays though - he has trouble downing me.
Beh just talking about it makes me want to play it again. I have so many machine god lucifers to acquire! Pointless grinds FTW.
Veto
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I still find funny How:
-At LoT1 Rinnosuke (A Human/Half Human?) Uses The Ame No Murakumo, Becoming a 18F Boss, with a buttload of unfair advantages Like 8 forms And World Shaking Military rule, and can easily wipe out the party
At LoT2 Tenshi (Celestial Youkai) Finds it And Ends at most on F12, Despite Having 2 LEGENDARY SWORDS, she ends up being much easier than Mannosuke and running most of the time from yukari/Eiki/Byakuren/Yuyuko chasing party
Will see the charagraph posted above, thankies :3
I checked it and i find the faces fine IMO, nothing wrong with them for me
Actually I never once had a hard time with cootiesuke in lot1.. not even in my very first playthru (though I was prob over level in that one because yukari caused me so much grief in my first playthru, and had to gain some levels for her).
Tenshi on the other hand is a far more intimidating boss to me in lot2... particularly the 2nd time you fight her.. the 3rd less so, but dat 2nd battle.. ugh.. But even the 3rd isn't a cakewalk. In lot1 I find rinnosuke is pretty much a guaranteed cakewalk if you can pass the first phase without much grief. And world shaking military rule is not really a large factor at all because you just save up your big nukes like master spark for the final phase and it ends like that...and saving them up is easy cuz cootiesuke is a complete pussycat after phase 1.
Tenshi on the other hand can 1shot people for me, and if you try and DARE buff their defenses...she has a NEW way to 1 shot them... She's more like Lot1's eiki IMO, only where her random 1shots are random instead of predictable.
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And after very long time of grinding in LoT1, finally defeated
Serpent of Chaos
Little rant here:
I hate it when this beast decides to use Magic Drain on my key buffing and healing characters, depriving me of defenses. And I hate it when he manages to oneshot Yukari with Steel Slasher or use Rasetsu Fist against Reimu, in 2nd and 3rd slot, respectively. I have Meiling up front all the time, and I'm baffled with the boss' targeting. It also happened on some bosses too. It pissed me off so bad. After losing buffers and healers, I just got loose with everything I have, so it's full damage rush. Since the boss is rather slow, I can switch like no tomorrow with Chen, shuffling through nukers with ease. I managed to defeat him, despite the odds.
tl;dr The game's RNG can be shit sometimes.
Party:
Reimu lv 452
Remilia lv 414
Patchouli lv 415
Chen lv 491
Meiling lv 445
Minoriko lv 452
Youmu lv 426
Nitori lv 447
Ran lv 416
Yukari lv 413
Rinnosuke lv 408
Eiki lv 419
Now for some more grinding to prepare for the next boss...
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Actually I never once had a hard time with cootiesuke in lot1.. not even in my very first playthru (though I was prob over level in that one because yukari caused me so much grief in my first playthru, and had to gain some levels for her).
Tenshi on the other hand is a far more intimidating boss to me in lot2... particularly the 2nd time you fight her.. the 3rd less so, but dat 2nd battle.. ugh.. But even the 3rd isn't a cakewalk. In lot1 I find rinnosuke is pretty much a guaranteed cakewalk if you can pass the first phase without much grief. And world shaking military rule is not really a large factor at all because you just save up your big nukes like master spark for the final phase and it ends like that...and saving them up is easy cuz cootiesuke is a complete pussycat after phase 1.
Tenshi on the other hand can 1shot people for me, and if you try and DARE buff their defenses...she has a NEW way to 1 shot them... She's more like Lot1's eiki IMO, only where her random 1shots are random instead of predictable.
Question: Do you buff SPD in those Tenshi fights? Because I found out long ago that it's possible to do so without her using her Sword of Hisou. As long as you focus on just SPD buffs and don't max it out at 100%, she won't use it. This is what makes Aya almost essential to not having a rough time with her, as she can act first no matter what, is insanely fast, can pass free turns to others as needed, and both actively and passively buff SPD. Regardless of which strategy that you use against her, more speed, and thus more turns to use against her, is always a good thing.
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I've been playing LoT1 for a long while and now I have a question. Do I need to beat the Bloody Seals ver 2 to get the ''Defeat all Version 2 character bosses''?
Scratch the question. I forgot to beat Flan ver 2...
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So, is Utsuho any good, really? I really like her! Like, a lot. But I find when I'm using her it's difficult to get her to put out high numbers that match my other members. I'm only at floor 7, though, so will her damage get better when I get more points for her skills to really get going? I like the idea of her being a stay-in attacker, even if she drops her own stats.
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I haven't used her, but Blazing/Fighting Spirit are critically important for her, and her other passives are all a big help too. Leveling the spellcards themselves is only about 5% end damage increase per level, so that's a lower priority.
You -need- someone with mnd ignoring capability, so at the very least she can shine in that department. The MND debuff on Tokamak is also very accurate, plus she's got Sheer Force to back it up, so she can shine for that as well. DEF/MND debuffs were almost useless in lot1 but in lot2 they're actually pretty important.
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I should clarify that Utsuho doesn't actually ignore MND, just pierces most of it. Specifically, her spellcard uses 5% of the enemy's MND, compared to the standard usage of 50%.
There's no difference against most enemies, but if you find someone with sky-high defenses, Utsuho might not be able to do any damage at all, while true defense ignorers like Rumia and Shikieiki will.
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Just beat LoT1 when Mystia landed a PAR at WINNER. It lasted forever.
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Just beat LoT1 when Mystia landed a PAR at WINNER. It lasted forever.
Wow, just wow. Congratulations.
Meanwhile, still struggling with grinding preparing for WINNER. But what irks me now is that I can't seem to get the good drops. Kept hunting and hunting, but still no drop. Those badges and dresses and exoskeletons...
Oh well, RNG is really shit to me...
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Wow, just wow. Congratulations.
Meanwhile, still struggling with grinding preparing for WINNER. But what irks me now is that I can't seem to get the good drops. Kept hunting and hunting, but still no drop. Those badges and dresses and exoskeletons...
Oh well, RNG is really shit to me...
Yep. I was really lucky that time. That PAR didn't seem to end. Because when I tried again it only lasted like 3 turns. This PAR lasted like 25 turns...
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And now, for an update on where I am in Labyrinth of Touhou 2...
Taur Magician is hard when you run into him, and I didn't even know about him until he trapped me with him blocking the only way one. He tore through half of my team.
Also, for people who may not know this yet, Taur Magician knows the following...
1. Black Universe, which really annoys me.
2. Destroy Magic, which I was not expecting.
3. A new move, Terror Killer(I think that's the name of it), that kills anyone who is afflicted with Terror. It did nothing to me, but I feel as though that that's the move that Gesh mentioned in his videos that kills anyone afflicted with Terror.
And I actually managed to win despite not knowing about him and trying to figure him out.
I also found out that none of this was written into the wiki yet, so I wrote it in.
But, yeah. Hard guy. And I still don't know how to get to the 16F boss. Do I have to navigate the 17F to find the stairway down or something?
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Yeah, Taur Magician was really hard for multiple reasons. He takes next to no damage from magical damage, ridiculously powerful dark storm attack.
and that move was called Terror Eater, but sometimes he just spam it without inflicting Terror.
And if you are talking about the Black Goddess boss, you have to go down the hole from 17F. I think the path to the hole is where Taur Magician is around.
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I started playing this 2-3 weeks ago on hard mode, going kinda nonstop and just beat enhanced version of Ame no Murakumo with lvl100 team
very exciting fight, feel really accomplished :blush: how was everyone doing on this fight?
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/e0r7ef.jpg)
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I started playing this 2-3 weeks ago on hard mode, going kinda nonstop and just beat enhanced version of Ame no Murakumo with lvl100 team
very exciting fight, feel really accomplished :blush: how was everyone doing on this fight?
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/e0r7ef.jpg)
Wow. Just wow. Teach me, master!
I've been playing this game year ago and I dropped it on 10th floor. I was heavily underleveled for Remilia and Sakuya.
After that, I decided to come back to it like two weeks ago. Somehow, I defeated them on 41 level. Hina did the job perfectly~
I also heavily grinded and now I'm on level 48 or something like that. I'm stuck on floor 12. Guardians are killing me.
Haven't played since then. I don't feel like it. Tenshi is coming...
And here are the people who defeat bosses 70 levels higher than their team. HOW.
It seems I'm not too good at RPG's...
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And here are the people who defeat bosses 70 levels higher than their team. HOW.
It seems I'm not too good at RPG's...
It's a quiet lot of grind to be done for that. my casts' actual level is really sky-high and a shitload of resources was put into it.
but once your tank can really take some hits, your nuke can really do some damages it's not super hard like you might think, though.
those bosses on 12th are a brick walls for many players. grind up some more to make everyone meet the recommended levels
Hina from now on will be your best friend. Give her subclass hexer & have Hexer Conversion and she will also great at tanking.
If that's not enough, have all your front line go tanky&speedy then switch in-out your ultra glass-canon to deal damages. kaguya&suwako is good for the Mirror. someone high physical damage with subclass monk skill is also good.
for magatama one, it's faster than the mirror so if you can't catch up with it, switching in-out might not as good as stationary mode. Kasen is really great to this.
you also can try Hina repeat cursing & painflow while other 3 go full tank&support her. healing, fill her MP with Magician sub-class(Mokou is the greatest MP factory you can get). this formation take a lot of time, though.
keep it up!
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It's a quiet lot of grind to be done for that. my casts' actual level is really sky-high and a shitload of resources was put into it.
but once your tank can really take some hits, your nuke can really do some damages it's not super hard like you might think, though.
those bosses on 12th are a brick walls for many players. grind up some more to make everyone meet the recommended levels
Hina from now on will be your best friend. Give her subclass hexer & have Hexer Conversion and she will also great at tanking.
If that's not enough, have all your front line go tanky&speedy then switch in-out your ultra glass-canon to deal damages. kaguya&suwako is good for the Mirror. someone high physical damage with subclass monk skill is also good.
for magatama one, it's faster than the mirror so if you can't catch up with it, switching in-out might not as good as stationary mode. Kasen is really great to this.
you also can try Hina repeat cursing & painflow while other 3 go full tank&support her. healing, fill her MP with Magician sub-class(Mokou is the greatest MP factory you can get). this formation take a lot of time, though.
keep it up!
Thanks for your advices! I made Hina hexer a while ago though I didn't had time to try her yet.
Yuugi seems to be very good at fightning mirror, at least when it's debuffed (and wiki says debuffs don't do anything) and she's buffed herself. Supernatural Phenomen just rocks. (She's my favourite attacker now~) Sadly, she has very little survivality and every mirror's attack is like a dice roll for her. She can tank some attacks, but some just wreck her (especially that dark bullshit I forgot the name of).
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Haven't played since then. I don't feel like it. Tenshi is coming...
Tenshi is piss easy though so no need to be afraid.
Also, no new updates on the append disk? I'm still waiting for it. :(
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Nothing on his site, no. Almost 10 months since the last update where Futo was announced.
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Actually decided to just play LoT2 without finishing the first one, thought there would a continuation of the story, so far doesn't seem like you need to play the first one to get the second, which Im very happy with. I'm also very happy about lvl bonuses being able to be moved around, that would have been nice to use in the first game. Im only one floor 2 but so far I love it, and the challenge levels for bosses is great.
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About to take on the Enhanced Final Boss. Any help on how I should approach it? Here's my team, for reference:
Enchanter Renko
Strategist Byakuren
Monk Aya (not gonna cheese the final fight of the game with Diva, pfft)
Healer Reimu
Hexer Reisen
Healer Sanae
Warrior Eiki
Gambler Flandre
Transcendent Nitori
Sorcerer Kaguya
Herbalist Komachi
Gambler Suwako
Anyone I should replace? The most likely candidate is probably Suwako, but that's why I'm asking.
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It actually looks fine to me, though I'd personally forgo the Herbalist benefits and stick with Healer Komachi instead.
I took in Minoriko, Wriggle, Alice and Yuuka instead of Suwako, Reisen, Flandre and Suwako. I personally like focusing more on utility with having only three main damage dealers instead of the six you have.
At this point though, I'm surprised you haven't already chosen your end game team for the eventual Append Disk. If the twelve characters you listed were the twelve characters you've been putting library levels into, it doesn't make much sense to sub anyone out.
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Well, with tomes of reincarnation, even endgame you can switch someone out.
Herbalist tanks are really nice endgame for both the Boost buff and because placebo goes a long way for keeping everyone's buffs maxed out whilst Byakuren isn't on the front.
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(http://i.imgur.com/rtDSJgH.png)
I... managed to win in 5 turns. The Boss literally spawned his arms, I murdered them instantly, Flandre happened to even survive the attack after I killed the arms (I have no idea how, seriously), then he spammed Kusanagi Slash a few times... and that was it.
Well, uh. Hooray, done with LoT2.
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Completely rekt'd
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I seriously hope characters who are TOO stronk get abit toned down (Nitori,Byakuren,?Flandre?)
And those who are weak get abit toned up (Cirno,Eirin,Reisen.....No idea who else is THAT horrible,havent played in long)
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Hey, Cirno's not that bad if you actually build her. And have her with the rest of Team 9. In fact my Team 9 run was the only run I've done which I've beaten all of the postgame stuff with.
...Speaking of which, I should try playing this again with one of the other run ideas I had. I had stuff like Palace of Earth Spirits, Sealing Club, Yakumo Family, etc. for run ideas (AKA going with mostly three person or four person teams, exception being Sealing Club since it's only two people, which can be tricky), but I've just been busy with... a lot of other games. :V
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I wonder if someone actually did the solo byakuren run
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I wonder if someone actually did the solo byakuren run
Hmm, sounds interesting. Gonna try and see if it works.
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I wonder if someone actually did the solo byakuren run
I wonder if that's possible, Byakuren doesn't really have the power to steamroll all the game. I found her spell cards mediocre at best, considering she needs high Attack and Magic to deal good damage on any opponent.
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Don't forget that "solo" implies "pouring all of your money and gems and everything into that one character". I think it'd be extremely difficult, but there are gems and everything that would help, not to mention as soon as you get your first Stone of Awakening, you'll have subclasses too to help. It'd probably involve a LOT of grinding to get her the skillpoints she needs, though, because she definitely needs those skillpoints for all of her skills.
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It'd definitely require refighting bosses just to get specific Challenge Level drops to make it easier. If anything, I'd say focus on Training Manuals most of all to get all the important abilities, like the buffs/healing.
6F Tenshi is gonna suck though without super grinding to survive.
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Oh dear god 6F Tenshi. She's basically the major stumbling block for any synergy run. Hell, even with a group that's a bit tankier, like Yakumo Clan (since Yukari is a half decent tank, compared to Team 9 where Wriggle is passable at best), it's... hard. Very hard. With one character, you need to be able to both reduce her damage to manageable levels and be able to heal yourself at a decent enough speed without running out of MP. I can only imagine how brutal of a fight it'd be.
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Looking at the situation, here are the numbers I'm looking it.
Tenshi only uses Ame-No-Murakumo Slash Level 1, and it's damage formula is 70% ATK - 50% DEF, and is a Spirit elemental attack. For 6F, Tenshi has 3980 Attack, so 70% is 2786. Since it factors in 50% DEF, this means we'd need 5572 DEF to negate it completely, more or less(Not factoring in Spirit Resistance and RNG). Obviously we don't need to negate the damage completely, just enough to not get murdered. Unfortunately, a Momiji at level 44 with all level bonuses into Defense, Guardian Subclass, 128 Library Levels in DEF, and 2 48% and 1 50% DEF equips is only 4322. To be fair though, this is with post 6F items, so the values will clearly be much lower, especially since the average level around 6F would be about 25-30.
So to get around Tenshi, you'd pretty much need to grind heavily just to have a Defense stat that doesn't suck. Uniform of Exorcism would be a good equip since it gives a decent amount of DEF(20%) and also gives Spirit resistance(+24) along with some EVA. The other 2 sub-equips will need to be the best DEF items available, preferable ones that also give good HP. Main equip should be the Elixir of Mages from Hina. Guardian is a decent Subclass for the boost to HP and DEF, plus it's skill set, but unless you're high leveled or got a lot of Training Manuals from reloading boss fights, you might not be able to get the most important skills. I'll go to that in a bit. Personally, I see Healer being the better subclass just to have the survivability.
So skills, the DEF buff is a must, as is the Healing. I also think the SPD buff should be obtained as well so you can get your turns faster, but right there we already have 54 skill points needed. If we get Guardian, we'd want Initiative and Absolute Defensive Line, the former for a starting 32% DEF buff, and the latter for a 30% damage reduction since Byakuren would be the only party member on the field, or so I assume. Those 2 alone are 20 more Skill Points.. If we get Healer, we'd need Prayer of Recovery for the healing. Not sure on Level, or if Efficient Treatment should be obtained to boost it, but if we maxed both, then we'd need 15 and 12 Skill Points respectively.
TL:DR: Probably better to just throw the other characters in just to get past 6F Tenshi. The grind isn't probably not worth all the time spent.
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There's always the 12x XP approach.
On a related note, did anyone ever find a way to do that in cheat engine? Might have just been for the first game but I think I recall someone mentioning they did it for such a run. Might've been 4x for no-backrow or something.
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Been working so I haven't had time to play this since forever. Otherwise I would try and figure out the 12x XP.
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There's always the 12x XP approach.
On a related note, did anyone ever find a way to do that in cheat engine? Might have just been for the first game but I think I recall someone mentioning they did it for such a run. Might've been 4x for no-backrow or something.
I just gave my characters massive amounts of XP and SP with cheat engine at the end of the game to see how broken I could get it.
Didn't need to fight at all.
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TL:DR: Probably better to just throw the other characters in just to get past 6F Tenshi. The grind isn't probably not worth all the time spent.
HP spec Youmu can tank Tenshi without grinding.
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Finally managed to get past 6F Tenshi. Library levels: 65lv. HP and DEF, 50lv. SPD. After experimenting with different strats I just decided to screw DEF and went for full HP build.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/r2mhhj.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/hreveg.jpg)
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I just hope it doesnt end like those FF4 solo cecil runs where the advancing wall is just unbeatable solo :V
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There's always the 12x XP approach.
On a related note, did anyone ever find a way to do that in cheat engine? Might have just been for the first game but I think I recall someone mentioning they did it for such a run. Might've been 4x for no-backrow or something.
A bit late, but I did post a cheat table in the reverse-engineering thread which also contains a divide by 4 and 8 script for the base exp received from enemies.
I'm not too sure about how to change those to multiply, from what I remember simply changing the "shr" to "shl" works. Too lazy to test. Also it has scripts to skip spell animation and (maybe, not sure if I uploaded that as well) the battle-start animation.
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Ok I tried to beat Mirror again and was very close one time. Boosted Yuugi and Suika do incredible damage, sometimes higher than 10 000! Still, I haven't managed to get past Dijin Storm phase yet.
I also have a question: who to take to battle as my 12th party member? My party is as follows:
Parsee - tank, switcher
Hina - tank, debuffer (a little bit of attacker, too. She does around 2000 damage with Lady Ohgane's Fire with debuffs)
Yuugi - attacker
Suika - attacker
Kaguya - glass canon
Patchouli - glass canon
Keine - buffer
Minoriko - healer
Sanae - buffer, healer
Alice - switcher, can do as tank due to her evasiveness
Aya - speed buffer, switcher, evade tank
So that's my team. In case of subclassess, Yuugi is monk (leftover from some other boss fight), Hina is hexer, Parsee is strategist and Alice is magician (she occasionally gives mp to other characters). If anyone has subclasses tips too, I'd be thankful.
Scratch that I did it! I did it! Yay!
Now, If anyone has tips for Magatama...
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Does anybody still have that Lot2 Pack for Lot1 Portraits?
Or the LoT2 charagraph, i lost mines
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Does anybody still have that Lot2 Pack for Lot1 Portraits?
Or the LoT2 charagraph, i lost mines
Here. (http://www.mediafire.com/download/iaaldc61scc4ulz/CharaGraph.rar)
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Does anybody still have that Lot2 Pack for Lot1 Portraits?
Or the LoT2 charagraph, i lost mines
Hera (https://mega.co.nz/#!WlAWwT6T!jDX21K2e2DOLucu8_SYhFWhGHRqCdRZJOl37ScDidi0) you go. I don't like how they were cropped in your version Luna.
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I am horribly lost on the Extra Areas of the Post game, are there any maps or tips that someone could send me? Or should I just keep exploring until I eventually find what I need? My primary issue is that I'm trying to get to the 9, 13, and 16's Extra Bosses bosses, since I already killed The Second Sun. Anybody have a suggestion?
Also, does anybody know about a glitch with Floor 9's Extra boss, in which the the rock before it shows a different message than what it should and the game crashes?
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I am horribly lost on the Extra Areas of the Post game, are there any maps or tips that someone could send me? Or should I just keep exploring until I eventually find what I need? My primary issue is that I'm trying to get to the 9, 13, and 16's Extra Bosses bosses, since I already killed The Second Sun. Anybody have a suggestion?
Also, does anybody know about a glitch with Floor 9's Extra boss, in which the the rock before it shows a different message than what it should and the game crashes?
You probably have one of the older English patches. Update it and you should be find, otherwise just spam Ignore and you can get by.
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You probably have one of the older English patches. Update it and you should be find, otherwise just spam Ignore and you can get by.
Many thanks for that, it was rather worrying to see the error message like that. My sincerest gratitude.
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Regarding the crash of 9F extra (an also 14 extra) rocks, there is also another way. Open the game with the japanese version (if you still have it) and pass the rocks. It works.
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News concerning the Plus Disk:
https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/591123144661803008
The circle will be present at Reitaisai 12. If I'm reading this correctly, they will try ("try" is the keyword here, it may not happen) to release the Plus Disk at the event, with plans to do patch afterwards to complete it fully (a bit the same way they did with the original Labyrinth 2)
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To be honest, just the announcement that it might be released is better than no announcement at all. Even if it's not released at Reitaisai 12, there's a good chance it'll be ready for the next Comiket, so at least we know most likely it'll be out some time this year.
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That's great news. It's been nearly a year without a single update on the blog, I was honestly thinking we weren't going to see it.
3peso seems like an interesting guy from his other tweets too.
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Currently running a draft for this game at another touhou forum.
It's amusing how low you can push things... Anyone here kicked Youmu's ass at level 1? XD
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So maybe I've messed up somewhere but putting images in the chargraph folder in the correct format/copy pasting what I wanted from an imagepack isn't actually making the game use them. It keeps sticking to the default images.
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So maybe I've messed up somewhere but putting images in the chargraph folder in the correct format/copy pasting what I wanted from an imagepack isn't actually making the game use them. It keeps sticking to the default images.
Which one are you playing? Touhou Labyrinth 1 or 2? Is the picture PNG file? Is the picture's size too large? If not, then maybe the picture is not the correct format.
Unrelated to the above; Does anybody here has a Touhou Wiki account? I am making a summary of a strategy to defeat The Desire Demon (14F Extra Boss). I see that the article hasn't been made yet and leaving it empty annoys me a little bit so that's why I am making one. The problem is I don't have an account and I cannot register now because it is disabled. So, I cannot edit the page. So, anybody who can help posting the summary is very much appreciated.
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Which one are you playing? Touhou Labyrinth 1 or 2? Is the picture PNG file? Is the picture's size too large? If not, then maybe the picture is not the correct format.
They're in PNG format, copy pasted from one of the downloadable chargraph packs in the links. I'm playing 2. It should work shouldn't it? If I take the three images and just paste them into the local chargraph folder the game has.
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They're in PNG format, copy pasted from one of the downloadable chargraph packs in the links. I'm playing 2. It should work shouldn't it? If I take the three images and just paste them into the local chargraph folder the game has.
For it to work with 2, they need to be named "01_S.png", "01_SS.png" and "01_L.png", following the order ingame.
also you might need to mess with dimensions a little
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For it to work with 2, they need to be named "01_S.png", "01_SS.png" and "01_L.png", following the order ingame.
also you might need to mess with dimensions a little
Huh, I wondered why when I previously tried messing around with the CharaGraph, it wasn't working. It's not like the first game where the portraits have the names of the characters in the file names. Huh. Good to know. I might mess around with it a bit in the future, although to be honest, the art is pretty good on its own compared to the first game, so I see little need to change it, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to play around with it a bit. :V
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Which one are you playing? Touhou Labyrinth 1 or 2? Is the picture PNG file? Is the picture's size too large? If not, then maybe the picture is not the correct format.
Unrelated to the above; Does anybody here has a Touhou Wiki account? I am making a summary of a strategy to defeat The Desire Demon (14F Extra Boss). I see that the article hasn't been made yet and leaving it empty annoys me a little bit so that's why I am making one. The problem is I don't have an account and I cannot register now because it is disabled. So, I cannot edit the page. So, anybody who can help posting the summary is very much appreciated.
If you don't mind just putting the info here, I can put it into the wiki. That said, I might make some liberal edits to your work if I feel compelled to do so.
Also, it would be nice if people come up with stuff to put in the overviews of the different floors. I didn't think of anything interesting to put in there when I was making a sweep through the wiki during my first playthrough. Its been so long since I've played through the game normally (ie with all characters and not just a select 12) so I can't write any suggestions for like characters to bring and what to look out for in each floor.
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Finally I've been waiting for this announcement!!
I don't care if it isn't released this Reitaisai, some news are great!!
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Here you go, jaxter0987. You can make a change in anything as you see fit. This is the first time I have written a strategy after all. Thanks in advance!
Desire-Eating Demon
Time for a flat-out damge race battle. The Desire-Eating Demon's attacks focus mainly on status effects and debuff. Your party should be protected against PSN PAR SIL HVY TRR and DBF, particularly PAR SIL HVY DBF. Those attacks do little damage.
The main problem of this fight, however, is that during its 4th turn. The Desire-Eating Demon will use its most fearsome attack Empty Mouth That Swallow Sinners. It is a single-target Dark attack that deals around 1 MILLION damage and inflict DTH, regardless of resistances. What's worse is that it doesn't always target the leftmost slot so you should consider switching your important character back in when the DTH attack is coming up. After it is used the first time, The Desire Demon will alternate between its normal attacks and DTH attack. Needless to say, you have to defeat it quickly before your entire party is decimated one by one. The boss has very high HP and is rather fast so this will be a long and difficult battle.
The Desire-Eating Demon is weak against CLD and NTR but highly resistant to MYS, SPI, DRK and PHY and neutral to FIR and WND. So Nitori, Nazrin, Yuugi, Suika, Kanako, Suwako, Yuuka (or anyone with a Monk Subclass) is your great damage dealer here.
It is weak against SIL and SHK and resist Debuff so prepare your characters as you see fit. Inflicting SIL can help lowering its MND. Inflicting SPD debuff can also slow the boss down a bit. Its weakness to SHK should be exploited so bringing in Kasen, Reisen, Remilia, Flandre. Renko and Maribel. Orin and Kogasa are highly recommended in this battle. Kogasa can help SHK and deal Nature damage with her Karakasa Surprising Flash while Orin can SHK the boss reliably and continuously with her low-delay Cat's Walk. Renko can both inflict SIL and SHK on the boss.
Do note that most of the boss's attacks have a very low delay so its next turn will come faster. The DTH attack has the delay of 1000 so this is your greatest chance to switch in your attackers.
Also, I see on the wiki that The Demon weakness to CLD and NTR is black instead of red so please change that. Those have different meaning in this game. (Red = Weak, Black = Very weak)
And which floor do you need overview? I have played the game several times so I might help with that if I have some free time.
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And which floor do you need overview? I have played the game several times so I might help with that if I have some free time.
You can just see which floors are lacking an overview when you browse through the dungeon pages. I'd say I'm more of an editor than a creator, when it comes to the wiki. I can edit content to great effect, but I always have trouble coming up with a basic structure to the boss strategies. So regardless if its your first time writing anything like this, all I really need is a basic structure to go off of. For these overviews, I basically want ideas on what should be noted on each floor.
Also, I've put the strategy on the wiki. I want to talk more about how Orin could potentially perma Shock the boss but I never used that strategy when I fought the boss. I went with a damage race.
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I see that starting from 14F onwards, the wiki lacks an overview so I will post everything here.
Really great work on the wiki there. I agree with adding that information. The more the better.
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Wow, 12F Tenshi was easiest boss in the game. Rumia and Satori wrecked her! Only other fight that was so easy was probably Hina.
Ame-no-Marukamo is Tasouken!
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Ame-no-Marukamo is Tasouken!
And both in turn are reference to the Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi. Which was also referenced in Riverbed Soul Saver. Funny how that works out. :V
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I recruited Byakuren! Woho!
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I want to talk more about how Orin could potentially perma Shock the boss but I never used that strategy when I fought the boss. I went with a damage race.
I've used Orin for that fight and it worked perfectly fine. I had her equipped with the SHK Main equip and had her on Magician for MP regen so she could just infinitely spam Cat's Walk. There might be a better approach to it but this one worked out just fine.
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I recruited Byakuren! Woho!
Time for Buffs!
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Reitaisai opens in 10 hours. I think he's talking about the plus disk on his twitter, but I can't tell if he's planning on releasing it or not.
I think google translate mentioned "crash bug" and "save data issue", so I'm guessing not, though.
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I checked, and it seems like the poor guy is really debating some things. From what I could understand on a later tweet, some bugs are "not important" and "there will be time for the rest of them". Although he seems really stressed.
EDIT:
From his twitter:
"東方の迷宮2体験版、完売致しました！"
"Labyrinth of Touhou 2 trial versions, sold out!"
He then apologizes for not producing more copies, I believe?
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Going by his tweets it looks like he released a trial for the expansion. He mentions planned save data compatibility as well.
Kinda disappointed it's not the real deal but better than releasing a broken game. If I'm remembering correctly I think Labyrinth 2 was originally kinda messy when it first came out, with a bunch of animations missing and several abilities not working (and I think some of the postgame stuff not implemented too), though it's thankfully all patched now.
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Even if it's broken, it'd be fine by my book. The patches are free, unlike most games of the current generation. Either way, I'm happy we got something.
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Has there been any more news about the expansion's trial?
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It exists, in some form. That's all I know. Still nothing on the site. If he posts a patch, I can look at the exe and probably find out what characters were added. but I don't even know if this is really just a trial or if it's just incomplete and in need of patches, so he's calling it like a trial.
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I've been wondering what's up with the expansion trial myself, but I've seen little to any news on it other than what's been said on here. In any case, hopefully there's some more news, or at least like some sort of gameplay footage showing off what's new.
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I was searching around to find some news myself, and I found a Japanese thread (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read.cgi/internet/22214/1424595811/) with someone (ID:xQpla2uA0) who apparently got their hands on the trial (which does appear to be a trial). They've made some comments about what's added, but since all I have is Google Translate I'll let someone actually able to read it figure out what's been added.
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ケースにマミゾウと神子確認。フロアイベントでこころのお面とこいし確認。
蓮子達まで仲間にしてないと途中で進めなくなる。
新層雑魚の強さは大体16階追加フロア+α程。
追加スペルは咲夜、勇儀、聖、文しか確認してないが無し。
装備ページはメインは3ページ、サブと特殊アイテムは全9ページに増加。
メイン装備作成はまだ不可能。あのさぁ?
基礎値上昇アイテム追加。その値のドーピング終了したキャラが使用可能。
推奨レベル356と434の敵確認。条件的に体験版だと多分会えない。
サブクラス追加。上位職っぽいけど習得不可。
製品版へのデータ引き継ぎは多分可能、出来なかったらゴメンとの事。
確認出来たバグ
こーりんのスキル習得欄開くと落ちる。
追加フロア2Fのスイッチが機能していない。
On the case Mamizou and Miko are confirmed. From floor events Kokoro and Koishi are confirmed.
(Not sure) There are no new content until Renko/Maribel joining.
(Not sure) Confirmed there are no extra spells for Sakuya, Yuugi, Hijiri and Aya (or maybe it means there are no extra spells outside for those characters?)
Equipments now have 3 pages for Main and 9 pages for both Sub and Special items added together.
Main equipment creation is still impossible.
There are additional base value boosting items. (No idea what second part of the sentence means)
Confirmed enemy icons with recommended level of 356 and 434. Since this is a trial, they probably can't be fought yet.
There are additional subclassses. They seem to be more advanced but can't be learned yet.
It's likely that full version will allow data carryover, but that can't be done yet.
Confirmed bugs:
Rinnosuke's skill window is bugged somehow.
The switch on 2F Extra is not functional.
追加情報
Wikiと比較したが48人全員追加スキル無し、こーりんも多分無い
素材は全5ページ、1ページ増えた
実績は104まで
敵図鑑には追加敵はちゃんと登録される
Comparing with the wiki, there are no additional skills for any of the 48, Rinnosuke probably included.
Materials now have 5 pages, 1 more than before.
Achievements go up to 104
Bestiary is registering new enemies normally.
(A few leaked new skill info from Rinnosuke skill window bug)
全ての攻撃に全能力微低下と全ての回復に全能力微上昇
自身のHPに反比例してダメージボーナス
ターンが回ってくるだけでHP回復
他の前衛キャラに防御無視効果25%付与
50%の確率で敵の防御と精神低いほうでダメージ計算
All attacking spells cause slight debuff to all stats, and all healing spells cause slight buff to all stats
Damage bonus inverse proportional to self's HP
HP recovery when getting a turn
Grants 25% defense piercing to other frontliners
50% chance to calculate damage as if targets' DEF and MND ar elowered
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i have been wondering, on LoT1 the guardian theme music, from what touhou song is that a remix of? or its a completely original theme
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It depends. I know one of them is a remix of Scatter About from the Etrian Odyssey games, but you're probably talking about the second boss theme from the Special Disk collection, which AFAIK was composed for the game.
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I'm glad that the Plus Disc is really going to be coming out. But I have a few questions.
How would data transfer work? Would it be like copying NGD files? Or something else entirely?
Also, would anybody happen to know where the locations of all the Jewels of Awakening are? I'm missing one, but I have no idea as to where it is. I think that it might be one of the higher floors, but I'm not certain. Is there any way to ascertain each location?
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I'm glad that the Plus Disc is really going to be coming out. But I have a few questions.
How would data transfer work? Would it be like copying NGD files? Or something else entirely?
Also, would anybody happen to know where the locations of all the Jewels of Awakening are? I'm missing one, but I have no idea as to where it is. I think that it might be one of the higher floors, but I'm not certain. Is there any way to ascertain each location?
Just go through each floor and look at the map for treasures.
You should be getting all of them anyways :3
This might help also, but it is all in moon runes.
http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/pages/154.html#id_09fb5676
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It depends. I know one of them is a remix of Scatter About from the Etrian Odyssey games, but you're probably talking about the second boss theme from the Special Disk collection, which AFAIK was composed for the game.
Talking about this one theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvgHgxfYIjk
I found a similar one on koumajou densetsu called scarlet tears, but thats about it (Has some pieces of that song)
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That theme is original as far as I know. It does sound like it was composed by one of the composers for Defiant of Shrine Maiden, and the person who did some of the remixes of OUT in GoS and other games.
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Today, I defeated Azure Giant, Yuyuko, Yuuka (PAIN OF MY EXISTANCE. Reminds me of that ungodly awful Mokou fight. I HATE bossess that can heal themselves, and half of postgame bossess have regeneration on...) and Yukari! Thus, I can move on to the dark floors. I'm glad this temperature puzzle is over. I still haven't collected some equipment on floor 13 because of that.
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All the talk about the plus disk made me remember that I never actually beat the postgame of the second game, so since I lost my save file a while back I decided to replay the game from the start. Gotten up to floor 5, and things have been going relatively smoothly so far, with the exception of the Komachi fight that I kind of completely forgot about. Ended up beating her on my third attempt with only Rumia and Cirno left, after getting Minoriko DTH'd by Narrow Confines of Avaci halfway through the fight and switching to full on damage race mode. Fighting someone with a multi-target DTH attack is kind of painful when you only have a single piece of equipment that protects against it. (and Youmu needed that to consistently tank the single-target moves, so Minoriko was kind of stuck with her natural zero DTH resist)
Next up is what I'm fairly certain is the Mokou battle, which I vaguely remember being somewhat of a thing. Let's see how this goes.
And I'm still not entirely certain which of the two games I actually prefer. The second one definitely improves the gameplay and character balance, but I think that the first one has some of the more interesting floor designs and boss battles.
e: Mokou and Hina both down on the first attempt. Mokou would have gone a lot worse if Wriggle hadn't dodge Fujiyama Volcano; I kind of completely forgot that there isn't a pause before it after she resurrects. Alice was being kind of a pain since I didn't have any reliable way of quickly killing the physical dolls, but she still went down after five or so tries.
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I am the only one that thinks maribel was harder and more epic than ame-no-Murakumo? Especially when she goes V2 with those wings and summons YHVH,Desire eater feels more like the final boss, looks like a being of pure evil and menacing
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This news on LoT2 is really something. HYPE FOR LOT2 PLUS DISK
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This news on LoT2 is really something. HYPE FOR LOT2 PLUS DISK
All aboard the hype train! I'm ready with a platoon of level 250s! Are you guys ready for the Plus Disc? :3
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All aboard the hype train! I'm ready with a platoon of level 250s! Are you guys ready for the Plus Disc? :3
If that info about 10 sub-equip and 3 Main Equips per character its true, isnt that abit......overkill? :V, If thats TRUE then i needed to start farming all the 20F gear PRONTO
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I am the only one that thinks maribel was harder and more epic than ame-no-Murakumo? Especially when she goes V2 with those wings and summons YHVH,Desire eater feels more like the final boss, looks like a being of pure evil and menacing
V1 Ame no Murakumo was harder than V1 Maribel, but V2 Maribel was WAY harder than V2 of the sword.
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If that info about 10 sub-equip and 3 Main Equips per character its true, isnt that abit......overkill? :V, If thats TRUE then i needed to start farming all the 20F gear PRONTO
Wait, it says that? Whelp, I got every single achievement already so I've got plenty of page 6 equipment, but I'll need to find some more. Back to farming extra areas it is then. Actually, now that I think about it, I have enough page 6 equipment for my entire active party of 12 to use that equipment solely... but I'll need more then. And since 12 X 10 is 120, that means that I'm going to need 120 pieces of page 6 equipment. This is going to be a long few hours, even with my item finding team... but if worst comes to worst, I've still got a few dozen pieces of equipment from 20F. Even so, I gotta be ready right when the Plus Disc is released to fill up my entire active party with Page 6 equipment~ :3
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Equipments now have 3 pages for Main and 9 pages for Sub.
Main equipment creation is still impossible.
There are additional base value boosting items. (No idea what second part of the sentence means)
Confirmed enemy icons with recommended level of 356 and 434. Since this is a trial, they probably can't be fought yet.
There are additional subclassses. They seem to be more advanced but can't be learned yet.
Here, but what could be to stupid strong that would require such gear and high levels?
EDIT
My BIG bad, i misinterpreted the sentence,It means more items will be added to the game :derp:
We got 2 pages of Main equip and 6 pages of sub-equips that means with plus disk we will have 1/3 more items than before
Big derp on my part
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Very happy to see people hyped for the game.
I may or may not have some news from his Twitter. He seems to have found the source of some bug and is working to resolve it.
Original tweet:
" バグの尻尾をつかんだと思ったけどそうでもなかった "
Or this could be something completely unrelated. Sorry if that's the case, I cannot read Japanese very well. If anyone would care to prove me right...
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Aw, I was hoping that I misinterpreted the article wrong so that we could have more sub and main equipment on. Oh well. I suppose that means that I'll just farm a bit less to ensure that I have the best equipment possible.
Is it strange that I have Momiji, Suika, Reimu, and Marisa as my alpha team for both exploration and boss fights? For some reason this team has carried me from the time I got Suika to the end of post game, and even before I recruited Suika I still had those three as part of team alpha.
Other then that, I still maintain a full Team Nine and a third squad that is situational. Squad three always has Rinnosuke, but the others change quite often.
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Aw, I was hoping that I misinterpreted the article wrong so that we could have more sub and main equipment on. Oh well. I suppose that means that I'll just farm a bit less to ensure that I have the best equipment possible.
Is it strange that I have Momiji, Suika, Reimu, and Marisa as my alpha team for both exploration and boss fights? For some reason this team has carried me from the time I got Suika to the end of post game, and even before I recruited Suika I still had those three as part of team alpha.
Other then that, I still maintain a full Team Nine and a third squad that is situational. Squad three always has Rinnosuke, but the others change quite often.
Not really to be honest, that team can wipe randoms pretty well as long as the random isn't resistant to Wind/Spirit/Mystic all at the same time. I found that as long as your team can wipe randoms in one hit, any team works for exploration.
For bosses, well, Momiji is one of the better pure tanks in the game stat-wise, while Marisa and Suika ranks up there among the best magical and physical nukes respectively. Reimu is always good for buffing, though you don't have any way to buff offense or speed barring Suika and Marisa's self-buffs.
My own fav team is Strategist!Byakuren, Transcendant!Kasen, Healer!Keine, and Sorcerer!Yuyuko incidentally, with Enchanter!Aya starting in Keine's place to speed-buff everyone else to hell first.
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With regards to soundtrack, isn't pretty much everything (barring the alternate OST for special disk) in both Labyrinth 1 and 2 either original or royalty-free as opposed to being Touhou remixes?
(Not sure) There are no new content until Renko/Maribel joining.
Specifically, it says you'll get stopped midway through if you don't have Renko/Maribel, so best to get that out of the way now if you haven't already. I actually still need to finish the game myself, I ended up stopping and waiting for the game to be fully patched because I was getting annoyed with missing animations/bugs/etc and never got back around to it. Just knocked off the 20f seal guardians, time to get ready for the big boss himself.
also Koishi and Miko were the two characters I was most hoping for, so I'm happy to see they're confirmed. All I want now is Nue (and I guess Sukuna if DDC characters are eligible)
" バグの尻尾をつかんだと思ったけどそうでもなかった "
Or this could be something completely unrelated. Sorry if that's the case, I cannot read Japanese very well. If anyone would care to prove me right...
It says "I thought I'd caught the tail of a bug, but that wasn't the case"
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I misinterpreted one of the messages; the 9 pages are for both sub and special items added together, not just sub equipments.
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I misinterpreted one of the messages; the 9 pages are for both sub and special items added together, not just sub equipments.
But isn't the current count already at 9? We have 6 sub and 3 special item pages, which makes 9, so are we getting no new sub equipment and materials?
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Whew, beat the final boss (party: http://i.imgur.com/xN8pE45.jpg). The fight actually started off pretty sloppy, I managed to lose both Reisen and Tenshi in the second phase, but the boss couldn't break through the wall of Rinnosuke/Komachi in the first two slots thanks to Komachi's healing and occasional Exorcising Borders from Reimu. Between that and Flandre taking huge chunks out of its health whenever it used a high-delay move (with Rinnosuke's Efficient Switch keeping her relatively safe), things actually went pretty smoothly. The power disparity between Flandre and other offensive characters was pretty crazy, Flan was doing ~180k per hit (more with Herb of Awakening) whereas Nitori could only manage something like 60k and everyone else was 30k or less, most characters aside from Rinnosuke/Komachi/Ran/Flandre/Reimu/Aya actually ended up being relatively dead weight.
Now just need to do some of the postgame stuff, and I'll finally be ready for the expansion!
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Would anybody happen to have suggestions for money grinding and stat gems? It seems that the final boss drops 2 gems/training manuals each time you kill it under the challenge level, but is there a way to increase that number/ find a better place for that? I've already explored the entire game with every floor with the exception of floor 16 because I am NOT dealing with those puzzles again. Money wise, I'm finding that 16 Extra is good for money, but are there any better places?
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I think 20F Depths is good for Money. I know its the best for EXP even with the extra post-game floors.
Edit: Did a quick look at the Enemy Info and all the 20F enemies give around 2000 money each, which is around the same as the Post-Game areas but without the hassle.
Your best bet for dealing with the final boss for Stat Gems/Manuals is to just steroid Flandre to the point where she can one shot him, even if it means being at like level 300 with a party of Level 1s.
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Thanks a bunch. I'd been farming that area but wasn't sure if it was also good for money. I can basically two shot the final boss either way with Suika and Marisa. Atlases and Sparks rip apart everything. Also, I've developed a funny little grinding method that's also better for your eyes, or at least will allow you to watch something else like TV or another video.
If you go to 20F Depths, and hold down Z and M, you just have to move either left, right, up or down every so often, using the music to judge where you are and if you're in battle or not. This allows you to close your eyes, even if only for a few minutes. It only works with a powerful team that can be fast and strong enough to kill them and not get hit, or tanky enough to not die, or both. With everyone at around level 250, I can achieve this easily. :3
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Sorry, this is a bit of a double post (have the same question in the translation project thread), but I've been struggling with this for a while and wanted to submit this to a more active thread.
I'm running the most recent translation patch, and I can't seem to enter 21F. I have no problem getting past the rocks just before the stairway on 20F, but each time I take the stairs to 21F, I get an error which says:
Debug Assertion Failed!
Program: C:\Games\Labyrinth of Touhou 2\THLabyrinth2.exe
File:f:\dd\vctools\crt_bld\self_x86\crt\src\fgetc.c
Line:41
Expression: (stream != NULL)
I've played through the entire game without having run into this before. Any help is greatly appreciated!
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I'm not really the person to go to for this, but I would suggest playing the stairs part in the Japanese version. Otherwise, if you have the option to ignore, spam ignore, as that bypasses any English translation errors. Besides that, no idea.
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I just noticed something in the first game. The Lance of Geios has a typo on its stats - it only buffs WND and CLD by +50, not by the +59 that the description (and en.touhouwiki.net) state. Hmm.
I really like the art in the sequel, especially for use as a Charapack in the first game. You have to crop some of the art to fit the lower portrait resolution, but they still look quite nice. I've got Wriggle's bug on her hand as her levelup icon. <3
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I feel like I might want to try playing the first, but it was so painful when I first fought Youmu. She just tore me apart as the wake up call boss. After that, I moved onto the second game, and here I am, with a close 100% except for a few map tiles, not counting stats, levels, and skills.
Anybody have a suggestion for where my characters should be for the expansion?
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I feel like I might want to try playing the first, but it was so painful when I first fought Youmu. She just tore me apart as the wake up call boss.
But that's exactly what makes it fun. She's the first 'serious' boss fight in the game where switching strategy really counts. Especially since it's her ghost half with its HP-shredding poison effect that's the real danger. Youmu's slashes are dangerous too, but at least they're manageable with buffs. If you're having trouble with a boss, I'd suggest always taking the time to fully explore the level before touching any boss tiles. That usually helps make sure you're levelled enough. Also investing points wisely helps. Affinities are fantastic for mid-late game as so many attacks are elemental, and having a flat damage reduction really helps even on characters with poor DEF/MND. If you're taking only half or a third of the damage from an elemental attack, even someone flimsy like Chen could potentially take a hit and survive to switch out.
Spending levels in stats like HP and DEF generally helps make you more powerful in the earlygame because of how scaling works, whereas massively boosted affinities really shine later on where damage scaling gets huge, and gigantic damage reductions can be had from massive affinity boosting. I'm currently running a game where ALL levelup points are dumped into affinities for all characters just to see what it'll be like.
My Youmu fight ended up with Remilia at 10 HP as the only character alive in my party alive finishing Youmu off with one final Spear of Gungnir she barely had the SP for. I think I tried hard to get speed debuffs to stick, but it ended up being better just to have Cirno and Reimu desperately try to PAR her in between getting picked off...
The boss of Floor 4 is also really fun, especially if you don't have someone in your party who can inflict Poison.
I'd say definitely go back and play the first game. It's well worth it, and the pacing is very different from the sequel. There isn't too much that's patently unfair or bullshit and the stuff that does catch you off guard the developer specifically put in to mess with you (Floor 5 boss, hello). The first really, REALLY nasty boss I'd say is Floor 7. The fight is actually pretty predictable but even when you know exactly what's coming, the sheer damage output and speed can wipe your frontline in a few turns. You need to spend a fair chunk of time on the floor grinding levels (which is recommended anyways as there's great drops on 7).
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I think that I could go with grinding now that I've played the second, and actually try to play through the first game. I'll see about trying it out again. Just need to make my LOT2 team is completely ready, then I'll come back to the first game.
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Got it figured out.. I had some corrupted data in my "data" folder. Thanks for the response!
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My Youmu fight ended up with Remilia at 10 HP as the only character alive in my party alive finishing Youmu off with one final Spear of Gungnir she barely had the SP for. I think I tried hard to get speed debuffs to stick, but it ended up being better just to have Cirno and Reimu desperately try to PAR her in between getting picked off...
The first game had an uncanny ability to do this sort of thing, and it would make me jump out of my seat. I had at least 2 victories after 20 minutes of fighting where my single surviving (and nearly dead character) landed the killing blow with a last ditch effort. Nothing beats that feeling. Of course, the opposite likely happens as well.. probably a good thing that enemies don't have a health gauge in the first one, I might've thrown my computer a few times on those close losses.
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Anyone in here still has troubles with the Guardian of the Crystals?
I have found the way to beat it without being severely overleveled. (but I was still a bit overlevel and beat it level 180 with 180 voile level, which would normally still be hard. ) I have updated it on the wiki. It took me 3 hours to find out how the boss work. Also, Thanks to EthanSilver's AI listing, I gain several hidden information about some bosses.
Moreover, I have finished adding overviews, updating some information of the dungeons and bosses on each floor on the Touhou Wiki. If anyone is interested, you can go look at them. If you find something needed to be added, feel free to tell me.
P.S. I can hardly wait for the expansion disk.
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Would anybody happen to know how to record gameplay footage of LOT2? I have Fraps but I'm not sure if it works. Also, if anybody might happen to know how to refight bosses like I've seen people say, I'd appreciate that. Also, what does Voile level mean? Just the number of library points invested in a character?
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Would anybody happen to know how to record gameplay footage of LOT2? I have Fraps but I'm not sure if it works. Also, if anybody might happen to know how to refight bosses like I've seen people say, I'd appreciate that. Also, what does Voile level mean? Just the number of library points invested in a character?
1: FRAPs works, though I prefer Bandicam. FRAPs records uncompressed video but can take up more resources as well as Hard Drive Space, while Bandicam can have you set the compression for it and have good output quality for a decent file size.
2: Refighting bosses? Best bet would be to save before them and reload the save file when you want to refight them.
3: Yes, Voile Level means the Library Points you invested.
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My Voile level is over 1000 for team alpha.
I must be grinding too much. Wait, that's nonsense, you can never grind enough! :V
Oh yeah, I'm going to try and recreate an utterly absurd video relating to the final boss later. It's horrifying yet amazing at the same time. XD
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Anyone in here still has troubles with the Guardian of the Crystals?
I have found the way to beat it without being severely overleveled. (but I was still a bit overlevel and beat it level 180 with 180 voile level, which would normally still be hard. ) I have updated it on the wiki. It took me 3 hours to find out how the boss work. Also, Thanks to EthanSilver's AI listing, I gain several hidden information about some bosses.
Nice job sorting out all the info related to the fight. Now I know what caused the insta-wipe 5+ turns in every single time, stupid Dark Star...
Level 180 and a massive 180 points in voile by my books is still hugely overleveled for the fight. I think most nukers can one-shot their designated crystal at that point.
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I've created a monstrosity. But it's so damn funny. Also note that someone else did this first with Suwako.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9tAchYXVWI
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i hope there are some crazy drops on the expansion, like the machine god lucifer,imagine someone like nitori with that sort of item (its literally ame no murakumo 3 times better and with elemental/status resist)
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My Voile level is over 1000 for team alpha. I must be grinding too much. Wait, that's nonsense, you can never grind enough! :V
Oh yeah, I'm going to try and recreate an utterly absurd video relating to the final boss later. It's horrifying yet amazing at the same time. XD
Wait you grinded so much that you had 1000 levels for each of the character's relevant stats? (except for affinities of course because that would be crazy)
When Kageshirou said he was at 180 voile level, he most likely meant each of the relevant stats for a character are at that level.
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I've created a monstrosity. But it's so damn funny. Also note that someone else did this first with Suwako.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9tAchYXVWI
I have to ask, why is Flan a sorcerer?
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I got REALLY bored after a while and decided to farm for quite a bit. And by relevant levels, those characters would be around 300 Voile levels for their relevant stats besides Affinities, yes. I thought you meant a total of Voile points which was shocking.
As to why Flan is a Sorcerer, I prefer the additional magic damage and wider range of magic attacks as opposed to for example, Warrior's physical attacks or Gambler's insane damage taken boost. I'd prefer that she not get hit and go down instantly, and even though you could switch out for that, I'd still rather have her at least be able to take one hit.
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Enhanced Ame-no Murakumo defeated at level 180 (no extra bonuses) and 200 voile level. Here is my party defeating it.
Reimu Enchanter
Keine Enchanter
Aya Monk (All level up bonuses in SPD.)
Kaguya Gambler
Renko (All level up bonuses in HP.) Used for paralyzing the left arm.
Byakuren Used as a lure for the right arm to use Shredder which remove buffs and eats up its turn.
Hina
Flandre Gambler
Strategist Mokou (All level up bonuses in HP.)
Eirin Healer
Remilia Transcendant
Eiki Gambler
On the first turn, I have Aya go first and start boosting Reimu's and Keine's Speed so both can buff Kaguya's MAG before the sword summon the arms. When it does so, I use Kaguya to nuke them twice with Hourai Barrage thanks to Aya's instant turn skill. It does around 400000 damage each time. Then I keep stalling the boss until Kaguya regain her MP and nuke them, hoping the sword does not use Severing Flash. (30000+ damage FTW).
The battle is almost impossible to fight without Aya or Kaguya with the bosses keep destroying my buffs and healing themselves, though I'm glad that it can be defeated at around the sword's level. Yay for done with LOT2.
P.S. What were the developers thinking when they designed the postgame anyways?
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Considering that enhanced Ame no Murakumo is the penultimate boss of the game so far, it would make sense to give it some powerful tricks and to include the pain of regenerating bosses AND buff removal. Of course, it is a bit unreasonable with how powerful they are.
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To be honest, I actually beat the full postgame on a Team 9 synergy run. In fact my first run at the postgame was with Team 9, although I think they were all like... in the 200s for level or so. It was kind of awesome yet scary at the same time.
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Team Nine is always fun to use. Wriggle's poison rips apart most enemies that aren't resistant, Cirno will slow down enemies to a crawl, Mystia can rip apart opponents with Wind and Nature, and Rumia can deliver a wallop of a mystic attack and a mind ignoring Dark attack.
Cirno lives up to her title as the Strongest. XD
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9F Tenshi down. It took me embarrassingly long to remember how her fight worked, but once I stopped using buffs she went down no problem at two levels below the challenge level. Things kind of slowed down when Iku got sworded halfway through the battle (I guess she got too much buildup of buffs from passive skills I didn't bother removing) and I had to rely on solely Reisen for getting Tenshi's defenses down, but otherwise there were no problems whatsoever. Other than her anti-buff sword Tenshi really isn't very powerful in that battle.
e: Breezing through the desert floors (I swear Sakuya and Remilia was much more of a road block my first time through), and just reached the mirror and magatama. I remember these things being massive pains, so let's see how this goes.
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Just a few corrections:
On the case Mamizou and Miko are confirmed. From floor events Kokoro and Koishi are confirmed.
(Not sure) There are no new content until Renko/Maribel joining. "You can't proceed with the new content until Renko and Maribel are recruited."
"Encounters are roughly the same difficulty as 16F Extra with a cherry on top."
(Not sure) Confirmed there are no extra spells for Sakuya, Yuugi, Hijiri and Aya (or maybe it means there are no extra spells outside for those characters?) "Only checked Sakuya, Yuugi, Hijiri and Aya, but those have no added spells at least."
Equipments now have 3 pages for Main and 9 pages for both Sub and Special items added together.
Main equipment creation is still impossible.
There are additional base value boosting items. (No idea what second part of the sentence means) "They can be used after maxing out on the original stat-boosting items."
Confirmed enemy icons with recommended level of 356 and 434. Since this is a trial, they probably can't be fought yet.
There are additional subclassses. They seem to be more advanced but can't be learned yet.
It's likely that full version will allow data carryover, but that can't be done yet.
Confirmed bugs:
Rinnosuke's skill window is bugged somehow.
The switch on 2F Extra is not functional.
Comparing with the wiki, there are no additional skills for any of the 48, Rinnosuke probably included.
Materials now have 5 pages, 1 more than before.
Achievements go up to 104
Bestiary is registering new enemies normally.
All attacking spells cause slight debuff to all stats, and all healing spells cause slight buff to all stats
Damage bonus inverse proportional to self's HP
HP recovery when getting a turn
Grants 25% defense piercing to other frontliners
50% chance to calculate damage as if targets' DEF and MND ar elowered "50% chance of using the lower of the enemy's DEF and MND to calculate damage"
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What if we had another addition to the skill trees of Eiki, Byakuren, Yuyuko, and Yukari which was called the Old Maid's Alliance?
Because they're all over 1000 years old XD I mean, they were all together at some point and each one was as considered to be overpowered when you first met them, so why not make them a team Besides the obvious fact that they would become too powerful.? Besides, Old Maid's Alliance just sounds hilarious (No offense to them, I love all four characters. They're seriously powerful).
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I thought the Old Maids Alliance was Yukari, Yuyuko, Yuuka, Eirin, and Byakuren.
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That's probably true. But Yuuka and Eirin weren't involved with the other 3, and technically, you could call Eiki old since she's a Yama.
Speaking of, has anybody tried an Old Maid's Alliance only run? It's a little different with how there's no team skill, but you do also get another two characters if you were to use the entire Alliance.
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Lv. 105 Byakuren.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2vuaias.png)
And so I'm finally done with solo Byakuren run.
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Congratulations! What were her stats at the end?
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That's pretty damn impressive. A solo run with just Byakuren sounds horrifyingly difficult.
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(http://i59.tinypic.com/waom7b.png)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/vniik6.png)
As for the difficulty, it was actually easier than I expected it would be. Earlier floors were probably the hardest - you don't have your skills, you can't reliably farm (Later for random encounters I used Monk's Area Normal Attack, but that's only after you unlock the Subclass system).When I got enough points for 14% recovery skill, the game went much better. Alice and Ran fights were quite annoying without a way to wipe out their summons,so I had to just ignore Alice's dolls, and while fighting Ran I had to use Explosive Flame Sword to left only 1 shikigami alive, and only after that start attacking Ran. The worst boss was definetely 12F Magatama. I had to spend a lot of time to get a level high enough to be able to battle it, trying lots of different strats,and, in the end replay it many times because random was a very important factor.
I chose Hexer because of bonus debuff resistance,getting a SPD debuff from Black Universe was basically a game over,considering how ridiculously fast the boss becomes. The main problem was that it could use Half Moon Slash right after Black Universe,so if you're get unlucky and evasion won't proc,you're dead ,and you can't do anything about it. Against some bosses ( Yuuka and Eiki come to mind) I just had to overlevel a bit and come back with better equipment. Yukari was a bit similar to Magatama, but went much better.Ame-no-Murakamo was a piece of cake,I just spammed it with Monk DEF ignoring skill.
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I dont wanna know how you handled stuff like tenshi and azure blue giant :ohdear:
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Some people suggest that you be allowed to throw in your other characters JUST for that one fight with the first Tenshi and when you fight Ame no Murakumo for the first time, just so that you don't have to grind to insane levels.
But kudos to you for a solo Byakuren run.
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Azure Giant wasn't so bad,actually.With high physical resistance,all level up points into HP and Guardian's damage reduction Rasetsu Fist becomes manageable (unless the boss decides to spam too often, of course). So basically all that is needed is a bit of luck, or just overleveling (I'm pretty sure I was actually few levels lower the recommended level). 9F Tenshi wasn't much of a problem, I mostly invested in DEF, Iron Mountain Charge for damage.As for the skills, I had ATK buff and HP recovery, so she didn't use Sword of Hisou, since I didn't have a total 100% of buffs. I've defeated 12F Tenshi on my first try. After finally beating the Magatama I decided to see how fast she will rip me to shreds, without even changing skills and equips.At first I wasn't able to damage her, but when she got a DEF debuff, she started using Violent Motherland dealing zero damage to me.And since she stopped using Sword of Rapture, I was able to buff my ATK, plus silence from Star Sword Apologetics helped really well, so I dealt like ~3k damage with it. Not much,but she wasn't able to hurt me, so it wasn't a problem.
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I misinterpreted one of the messages; the 9 pages are for both sub and special items added together, not just sub equipments.
Does anybody know what's happening with the Sub Equipment? This would mean that there ARE no new items in those categories, but are there? Besides the new Main equipment that is.
Also, does anybody know if there's a way to spawn more Dragon larvae? I can't seem to find them anywhere on 16F Extra, except for once. Are they just really rare?
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Does anybody know what's happening with the Sub Equipment? This would mean that there ARE no new items in those categories, but are there? Besides the new Main equipment that is.
Also, does anybody know if there's a way to spawn more Dragon larvae? I can't seem to find them anywhere on 16F Extra, except for once. Are they just really rare?
An alternative would be that it was not increased *to*, but increased *by*. My Japanese isn't that good so I'm not really sure what that "ni" particle at the end means.
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Ah, thanks for the help. I was confused by that. Speaking of, does anybody know if affinities affect elemental damage for your characters,offensively? Say, higher Cold Affinities would translate to a more powerful Cold Spell being used by say, Cirno? I know that they affect your defenses by reducing damage of the elemental attack.
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Affinity only ever affects elemental damage received, not elemental damage dealt.
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Hello everyone. I want to ask something.
I want to download character image pack for my LoT 2, but I'm confused with Squid's and Panda's pack.
Squid's pack were a bit "overwhelming", because there are several version of image for each character (like Alice, there is Dark, Doll, Player2 etc). While Panda's pack, to be honest, I don't know which one I should download, or all of it?
Chirpy's pack are quite simple from a brief look. But I want to make sure where I place these pack (especially Squid or Panda) and which one is the best? Thanks
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Those packs are tailored for LoT1, and won't work for LoT2. You just need to have a folder named CharaGraph in the main folder and put all the images in there. The other images you might see are just alternate images, so you can change them around!
On a related note I should stop delaying the final boss fight in LoT2 with team (9). Could someone who managed to beat it give me some tips at challenge level? It'd be much obliged.
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I haven't actually done the final boss only with Team Nine, but based on what I can assume, most ailments don't work well. Thus, you can't really poison it with Wriggle. Cirno can slow it down I believe, while Rumia and Mystia will be able to deal decent damage against it. I think you'll want to have high offensive stats for Rumia and Mystia, in order to actually do enough damage against the final boss, since that team doesn't really have good healing besides Rumia. That said, be sure to be able to defeat both summons later quickly.
Speaking of, does anybody play with Visual Effects on? It makes everything look trippy. :V
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Wriggle's poison actually works, even without Toxicologist and with 1 lvl poison.
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Really? I'm pretty sure that it takes a lot of tries if you try to poison it. At least, it did for me when I first tried it.
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Well, it's kinda hard to tell how effective it is. I'd say the chance is like 10% - 15% or something close to that, and levelling doesn't make much of a difference. So yeah, getting unlucky 5 or more times in a row isn't such a rare occurrence. But still, I think it's not a bad idea to test your luck. It's quite powerful, but of course it shouldn't be the main source of damage.
And speaking of Team 9, is there a way to debuff Ame-no-Murakamo's attack? Hexer's spell is as (un)reliable as poison is.
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Gambler Rumia is actually one of the best attackers against the final boss given the combination of Dark weakness and crazy high defenses. As far as I can remember, he's resistant to debuffs but not immune, Reisen was landing 2-4 debuffs per hit for me with max level Discarder and no subclass.
Also, LoT2's charagraph functionality is weird, I tried it and it kept shifting images to the side. I'm not sure if you need transparent PNGs that are specific dimensions or something, it didn't say what size images are supposed to be in the readme.
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LOT2 doesn't have a charagraph functionality though, only the first one does. And Gambler Rumia wouldn't work very well if you're doing a Team Nine only run, but if playing normally, she could indeed be very powerful.
Debuff wise, I've found that easy ways to debuff it are Iku's Debuff skills, and Hina with Hexer Subclass. The former works 90% of the time, whereas Hina's works 100% of the time, when using the Hexer Subclass spells. I've always been able to land a debuff when using Hina in this case. Speaking of, I think Hina could also be quite useful in the Enhanced Ame no Murakumo battle, due to the fact that one of the arms has an all buff removal attack, and it wouldn't affect Hina, who uses Debuffs to empower herself.
I must have been quite unlucky with Wriggle's poison skills then, since I had instances where it took me a dozen shots before one worked.
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Wriggle's poison takes a long time to stick in the fight but it's honestly always been the safest strategy for me in phase 1 because you can also start stacking up buffs in the meantime etc.
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Mirror and magatama down. The mirror didn't give me all that much trouble, but the magatama game over'd me quite a few times before I finally managed to pull off full power Pain Flow -> 3D Scope -> Master Spark right at its 33% transition point to kill it off before it had a chance to take advantage of the full party to 1 HP move. These bosses that just keep on increasing their speed as time goes on don't really mesh well with my usual defensive strategy. :V Still didn't have nearly as much trouble as my first time, though.
Also although the wiki doesn't say anything about it, I swear the mirror must be gradually boosting its magic after it uses World Devouring Calamity; that multi-target move that inflicts a whole bunch of status effects ramped up bit by bit from 0 damage to full-party kill several times when I only had my tanks left for the last phase.
Also, LoT2's charagraph functionality is weird, I tried it and it kept shifting images to the side. I'm not sure if you need transparent PNGs that are specific dimensions or something, it didn't say what size images are supposed to be in the readme.
Judging by the sizes of the default character portraits, the L images should be 800x600 pixels big. The dimensions for the other ones seem to vary, though, other than the height of the SS images always being 29 pixels.
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Also although the wiki doesn't say anything about it, I swear the mirror must be gradually boosting its magic after it uses World Devouring Calamity; that multi-target move that inflicts a whole bunch of status effects ramped up bit by bit from 0 damage to full-party kill several times when I only had my tanks left for the last phase.
That could very well be the case. People have to keep in mind that the wiki has been for the most part, out of date since the past couple of balance patches. A lot of the bosses were reworked to be harder / easier (I don't remember the specific wording) and thus gained / lost some mechanics and moves. I WAS going to try to update the wiki as I go through my current play through but life decided that I had other priorities.
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http://pastebin.com/YfS9PgCw
From EthanSilver's AI Listing, it seems that the mirror boosts its MAG by 80 every turn it gets, not just only after it use its draining spell. The magatama gains 20 SPD instead every turn. What a cheater.
About the wiki, been there done that.
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I defeated Shiki and Flan! Which means, that now I have everyone except for Renko and Maribel.
Ehh, so Yuuka casts Beauty of Nature if she's heavied? That would be so helpful if I knew that before I fought her!
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http://pastebin.com/YfS9PgCw
Oh hey, this is really useful. Seems like the thing that should be in the first post so you can find it easily.
If someone has managed to extract all the enemy behaviours, is there a list of attack formulas somewhere as well? I know the wiki has the ones for the player characters, but it doesn't have the enemy attacks.
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It was all posted in EthanSilver's Reverse-Engineering thread, but unfortunately a number of the links are dead. I'll reupload and post them here, so someone can add them to the first post if they'd like.
Enemy Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnlnx9stxxybinb/enemy_info%20v2.zip?dl=0)
Contains their Stats, Affinities, Ailment Resistances, EXP, Money, Drops, and Types
Spellcard Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujydvnmgj466eaq/spellcard_info.zip?dl=0)
4 text files for Characters, Commands, Enemies, and Subclass data in a zip file
Individual files for those who only don't want to download a zip file
Character (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lg29mv3r2b9ahrj/Spellcards_Character.txt?dl=0)
Commands (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5abxf9st849cnw8/Spellcards_Commands.txt?dl=0)
Enemies (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv8pi1hepbkh3v9/Spellcards_Enemy.txt?dl=0)
Subclasses (https://www.dropbox.com/s/z5g5llnwa34jb53/Spellcards_Subclasses.txt?dl=0)
Passive Skill Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jovqyauwx24odf/Labyrinth%20of%20Touhou%202%20Passive%20Skills.txt?dl=0)
Data on all the character's passive skills that affect damage formulas, stats, etc
Enemy AI Dump (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfpfenffpit76yr/lot2_enemy_ai_dump.txt?dl=0)
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I honestly just use the Ai dump, just to know the whole bestiary in case a missed a monster somewhere (Looking at you rare monsters and larva dragon)
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So I've finally reached the point in Labyrinth of Touhou 1 (I'm restarting my run) where the random encounters get incredibly obnoxious and horribly designed. 13F, I mean. Any tips to ease my mind?
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You really need who is very fast and can deal a lot of damage. From the wiki, Aya seems to be the most recommended. Otherwise, your frontliners should be characters who can take hits. The monsters on that floor are very fast and have a lot of HP.
Beware that the rabbits often use Snipe to mostly target your back row so fragile attackers should be brought in those fights.
Unrelated to the above, I have finally found Delicious Autumn Taste, another rare monster in LOT2. Now I only have 3 left to find.
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I finally made it past Youmu in LOT1... after several months. Turns out that I just needed a few more levels.
I think that the only ones I'm looking for are Delicious Autumn Taste, Pearl Oyster, and possibly some higher floor enemies. Speaking of, I managed to forge one Zeus Armor and two Genji Gloves. :] Speaking of, does Genji Glove allow double proc? As in, 4X damage?
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You really need who is very fast and can deal a lot of damage. From the wiki, Aya seems to be the most recommended. Otherwise, your frontliners should be characters who can take hits. The monsters on that floor are very fast and have a lot of HP.
Beware that the rabbits often use Snipe to mostly target your back row so fragile attackers should be brought in those fights.
I do use Aya but even she is unable to outspeed enemies, or if she can do it, she won't be able to kill them immediately.
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Beat up Tenshi for the final time and explored all of the fire floors. Accidentally ran into the dragon FOE on 15F with my exploration party because I didn't even notice it, but thanks to Cirno slowing it down I managed to bliltz it in three turns before it was able to do a whole lot.
It was all posted in EthanSilver's Reverse-Engineering thread, but unfortunately a number of the links are dead. I'll reupload and post them here, so someone can add them to the first post if they'd like.
Enemy Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnlnx9stxxybinb/enemy_info%20v2.zip?dl=0)
Contains their Stats, Affinities, Ailment Resistances, EXP, Money, Drops, and Types
Spellcard Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujydvnmgj466eaq/spellcard_info.zip?dl=0)
4 text files for Characters, Commands, Enemies, and Subclass data in a zip file
Individual files for those who only don't want to download a zip file
Character (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lg29mv3r2b9ahrj/Spellcards_Character.txt?dl=0)
Commands (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5abxf9st849cnw8/Spellcards_Commands.txt?dl=0)
Enemies (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv8pi1hepbkh3v9/Spellcards_Enemy.txt?dl=0)
Subclasses (https://www.dropbox.com/s/z5g5llnwa34jb53/Spellcards_Subclasses.txt?dl=0)
Passive Skill Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jovqyauwx24odf/Labyrinth%20of%20Touhou%202%20Passive%20Skills.txt?dl=0)
Data on all the character's passive skills that affect damage formulas, stats, etc
Enemy AI Dump (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfpfenffpit76yr/lot2_enemy_ai_dump.txt?dl=0)
Oh man, just look at all those numbers. Thanks a ton!
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I do use Aya but even she is unable to outspeed enemies, or if she can do it, she won't be able to kill them immediately.
You might want to up her speed with points, then give her turn to a strong AOE character.
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They are talking about Labyrinth of Touhou 1. In Labyrinth of Touhou 2, no one can take a turn before Aya.
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LoT1, eh?
Aya becomes obsolete on the higher floors, her attack is mediocre to sweep most enemies. If you want to use Aya, you have to pumo a lot of skill points to ATK, and make sure that you fill all the level up bonuses on ATK and not the others.
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LoT1, eh?
Aya becomes obsolete on the higher floors, her attack is mediocre to sweep most enemies. If you want to use Aya, you have to pumo a lot of skill points to ATK, and make sure that you fill all the level up bonuses on ATK and not the others.
That's what I have been doing, again. It just doesn't seem to be working out and it's pretty annoying...
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Labyrinth of Touhou 1, Aya is a boss killer post end game, when SP spam no longer really matters. Just level her in all attack. Her damage per boss action is insane, once you reach level 400+.
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After almost a year-long hiatus (in now way related to me getting distracted by various games like Disgaea 4, BOI Rebirth, Persona Q, YS Memories of Celceta and some others) i finally decided to continue where i left off. Namely floor 2. So far made it to floor 5. I don't remember half the stuff from the demo, but surprisingly it has been quite easy playing it below or at challenge level so far . The only boss that gave me any signficant trouble was Alice's Upgraded Doll. That thing is fast as shit and kept spamming that row attack. Aside from that bosses are challening, but not to the level of bullshit the Doll was.
P.S. Mokou decided to cough up all her drops on my second try. Which is awesome.
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About the Kanenoki Koban, Mr. Midnight Oil Set, and Items Discovery Weekly special items, is it possible to find all 25, 25, and 40 of them? it says that it caps at those percentages, but I don't have all of them yet, and I think I've explored the entire game. Any advice?
Also, does anybody know what an optimal grinding team would be? Something along the lines of Rinnosuke, Komachi, Keine, and Nazarin? Each for the four grant bonuses to certain post battle things, like how Keine increases EXP, Komachi increases money drop, Zazarin increases item drop, and Rinnosuke increases items and money. But is it worth it to use this team when grinding, or would it be better to stick with my favorites and using the Hands On Experience skills and such?
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I have played through the entire game and I can only find 11, 14 and 15 of them (1 Item Discovery Weekly can be lost forever if you didn't get from Mokou.) More might be found on the expansion disk.
About grinding, it depends on what you are grinding, if for everything, Nazrin and Rinnosuke seems to be the most optimal to have in your party. Komachi and Keine doesn't really make much of a change.
If you want a quick EXP, obviously, just go to the 20F and have all (or most of) your party member bonuses in ATK to make sure you One-Shot all FOE to save time. Fighting around 100 battles give you a whopping amount of EXP in no time. With Nazrin you might get some cool drops for selling. (The selling price is less than that of post game's equipment only by 2000.)
If you are grinding for money, 15 Extra is the best. 16 Extra is just full of very fast and annoying enemies. Most fights give you around 6000 money. (Except when you are against only Blazing Oarfish which gives you around 100 money.) However, you will need a multi-target attackers if you want a quick grind.
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So question about the solo byakuren run, I MIGHT attempt it someday
Its better to get HP Or speed mantra first? you needed both to survive on early stages
Byakuren is the only member on the party all the time, correct?
What Class? Monk for the penetration attack? Or you change depending on the floor/boss?
I dont believe its possible to do the bonus floors solo,stuff is too fast, its too hard, and desire eater will Kill you in a single move
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I learned the healing sutra first.Didn't try going for a speed first, but it might just not work. Both her damage and DEF/MND aren't especially great,so I doubt you can survive long enough to kill the boss without healing.
Yes, Byakeren mostly was the only party member. During the first 3 or 4 floors I also had Reimu for random encounters. Not like she was necessary, I just wanted to speed up my farming a bit.
Subclasses, skills, equipment, level up bonuses - you have to adjust them for every boss fight. Monk is an optimal choice most of the times. Guardian can help against DEF ignoring spells, or if you need to survive a powerful nuke. Warrior might be necessary for some fights where fire damage is needed, and your other skills won't work. Once I used Hexer and Healer. Strategist and Transcendant are good choices if you simply need a stat boost.
I didn't even bother to try postgame,honestly. Even the Malignut Eater's Shadow would be a big obstacle I imagine, and other bosses are probably physically impossible to beat with just Byakuren.
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Ugh... Whoever designed 9F Tenshi should be stabbed repeatedly with an old rusty knife.
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Ah, Tenshi. I pray for your poor soul CF7.
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Ugh... Whoever designed 9F Tenshi should be stabbed repeatedly with an old rusty knife.
Whoever Designed MANnosuke with 8 different forms and the most broken buffing skill ever made (World Shaking Military Rule) deserves to be hit by a rock
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Whoever Designed MANnosuke with 8 different forms and the most broken buffing skill ever made (World Shaking Military Rule) deserves to be hit by a rock
The only time I ever had trouble with him was if he just SPAMMED his massive AoE attack.
I once had him do it 4 times in a row, there is no way to survive that unless you are over leveled and geared.
If he just did it twice, I would kill him pretty easily.
I had a harder time with the god press mobs overall.
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Whoever Designed MANnosuke with 8 different forms and the most broken buffing skill ever made (World Shaking Military Rule) deserves to be hit by a rock
He was hard, but doable. WSML only used in his non-elemental form if i remember the fight, so his first form is kind of the hardest. It was a matter of recasting your defensive/offensive buffs, keeping your first slot tank alive and switching in elemental nukes when appropriate. Plus you have Yukari when you fight him. His last form can be pretty much burned down by fully buffed Master Spark too.
Now 9F Tenshi.
Absurd def/mind at that point of the game, so absurd, that your attackers do awesome 0 damage to her. Then Tenshi buffs her def/mind even more. Resists pretty much everything that can actually hurt her. The only mind ignoring attack (Rumia) you have is resisted too (well there's Kaguya, but i picked Mokou/Reisen). And if you want to buff your girls, Tenshi just smacks them with one-hit killing sword to the face. Speed lowering attack, Shadow Step and a powerful after-focus-party-hitting attack is just an icing on the cake.
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I once thought Tenshi was bad, but now it doesn't seem to be the case anymore. There are ways to exploit her attacks.
First, you have to make sure that your tank can survive Tenshi's attacks and nuke, buff that character up to 100% and Tenshi will always use the sword to target that and she won't use other moves as long as your other characters' buff doesn't exceed 100% or at least that of your tank. Her high defensive stats can be debuffed with strong debuffer like Reisen or Hina. If you debuff Tenshi's ATK, she won't do a ridiculous amount of damage anymore. You can subclass your physical attacker into a Monk to learn Iron Mountain Charge which ignores most of Tenshi's defense and it is Nature which Tenshi doesn't resist. You can also poison her but this takes a lot of time.
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Ugh... Whoever designed 9F Tenshi should be stabbed repeatedly with an old rusty knife.
?
I didn't have all that much trouble with Tenshi in this last playthrough, though? With not using buffs and putting a bunch of affinity items on my tanks, she really didn't seem to do that much damage, and unlike the 12F battle you can debuff her stats to all hell without repercussions. As for actually damaging her, poison works wonders (although it's a bit slow); I'm fairly certain Wriggle was my top damage dealer in that fight. I think my lineup for the battle was Momiji - Meiling - Wriggle/Reisen - Minoriko for most of the time, stalling Tenshi while the poison did its work.
e: oh yeah, Iku's first spell is also great for quickly bringing down Tenshi's defenses to a more reasonable level so that other people can do damage. I abused that for the first part of the fight as well, until she got unlucky with a sword to the face.
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Now 9F Tenshi.
Absurd def/mind at that point of the game, so absurd, that your attackers do awesome 0 damage to her. Then Tenshi buffs her def/mind even more. Resists pretty much everything that can actually hurt her. The only mind ignoring attack (Rumia) you have is resisted too (well there's Kaguya, but i picked Mokou/Reisen). And if you want to buff your girls, Tenshi just smacks them with one-hit killing sword to the face. Speed lowering attack, Shadow Step and a powerful after-focus-party-hitting attack is just an icing on the cake.
I honestly think Mokou was much, much more bullshit than Tenshi. I don't remember her causing me too much problems, while Mokou... Regeneration sucks. Regeneration sucks. I hate it.
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I remember wiping out on Mokou like, 12 times. I think that was the boss that actually gave me Kasen for wiping out so much.
Has anybody tried the Healing Squad? When leveled right, you basically can't die. Whether it be Komachi reinforced by Healing Touch, Minoriko's powerful single heal and single defense buff, Reimu's team defense and healing skills, and such. It's hilarious.
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Haven't tried something like that yet. I've had a million and one ideas for different themed runs of the game (by the way, themed/synergy runs are much more fun to play than just doing it the normal way imho), but I haven't tried many of them. I've actually decided to attempt solo Byakuren myself, and keeping it a purely Byakuren only run, so no bringing in someone to help with grinding, no bringing people in for 6F Tenshi (seriously, while I lost the saves of my Yakumo run and my Palace of Earth Spirits run, I actually did 6F Tenshi with those two teams and Team 9 without bringing in meatshields), nothing of that sort, it's just all Byakuren, all the time.
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Hm... I don't remember Mokou as being hard. But me thinks it was mainly because of me sorta cheesing the fight with Nitori, Cirno, Kogasa ice spells and Kasen as a tank who kept debuffing her attack and speed. +50% Mag boosted Spark to the face after Resurrection.
And Tenshi is down. At party level 31. The fight took like 20 minutes, but it was kinda worth it.
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So question about the solo byakuren run, I MIGHT attempt it someday
Its better to get HP Or speed mantra first? you needed both to survive on early stages
Byakuren is the only member on the party all the time, correct?
What Class? Monk for the penetration attack? Or you change depending on the floor/boss?
I dont believe its possible to do the bonus floors solo,stuff is too fast, its too hard, and desire eater will Kill you in a single move
HP, without question. Pretty much the only thing you can do as a strategy in a solo byakuren run is overlevel. The regeneration allows Byakuren to actually tank and not need to worry about chip damage, either from a drawn out boss fight, or just mooks ruining her TP. On a related note, I really can't recommend trying it. I did it up to floor 4 (beat Mokou by cheating, since neither of us could outdamage the other) before quitting. There's really no strategy involved at all. It's just "Grind until mooks/the boss can't outdamage your regeneration, then you win"
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Honestly LoT2 is so filled with high DEF/MND things blocking staircases/ending credits that 9F tenshi doesn't stand out among them at all.
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I just defeated 12F Tenshi in the most anticlimactic and stupid way possible. Active team Aya, Kasen, Reisen and Rumia.
Rumia has 3 Forbidden Tablets (one is Alice's drop, one from a chest and one crafted) to boost her magic and MP. Also she has Master's Emblem equipped that gives 8 MP and that brings her total MP to 30.
Aya speeds everyone up. Reisen and Kasen debuff Tenshi's speed to -50%, Rumia spams Dark Side of the Moon. Then Aya gives free turns to Rumia. Repeat. Win. And as it turns out, 10 casts of DSotM is enough to finish Tenshi off.
Due to the way the fight is scripted, Tenshi didn't even have the chance to damage anyone. First she wastes time casting her defensive buff which slows her down and does absolutely nothing since DSotM ignores mind, then due to DSotM spam she focuses and sets her timebar to minimum and then she is dead.
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Satori and Parsee can also add to quickdefeat strats, if Tenshi has any speed debuff resist or something; Satori's passive will significantly increase the damage dealt to weakness AND she'll be a second DSotM caster, and Parsee is another big dark damage increase.
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Update on my journey. Already beat the three orbs, gotta love Sakuya's Killing Doll for being a very good spell to throw at Reverse Time. Also, Parsee is the best tank for dealing with any attack from the orbs in the first place, and Orin helps in mauling Reverse and Forward Time, so there's that.
I seem to of noticed that I don't really use debuffers like Reisen or Hina much at all. I seem to not use people with gimmicks very well(I actually feel kind of weird when I use Byakuren) to the point where the only one who's gimmick I can use well is Tenshi, and that's for dealing with buffs. I also remember that I used to use Momiji for her Eyes that Perceive Reality skill, as she was the sturdiest of the three people who had it, and she also had the "increase accuracy for frontline" gimmick which I'm kind of missing at times...
I'm at 19F and I learned that the best thing for dealing with most everything that breathes on that floor is either Nature attacks from a strong enough mage or fighter, or trying out Magic Satori with Narrow Confines of Avici and discovering that even when resisted, enemies still die due to either damage or or the death effect of the spell. Only evasion allows for anyone to survive it, and solving that would actually be as simple as giving Satori a Accuracy Boost Tome and getting the points for it. This is harder than it sounds, since leveling up Satori is much harder than with most characters, and I also need Satori to be quick enough to fire off a spell in the first place, so I also gave her a Speed Boost Tome, so I have a bit of a resource issue there.
Still, I'm keeping on keeping on, and I do want to find everything and get to the real treasure zone of the game, the 20F Depths, so I can really have some fun there...
Surprisingly, I actually do have a goal in mind before beating the game, and that it to flat out try out everyone and make them usable for the sake of fighting against the 20F Depths, so that's going to be a serious time sink. See you when I get there.
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Finally got out of 13F and got thrown right into 14F of the first game. I missed this floor even less than 13F. Why is everything suddenly level 60 or higher? How are you even supposed to get on that level from 12F to 13F? And who thought Ether Flare was a good idea?? The first Labyrinth of Touhou is so painful at times. Atleast the bosses could be worse... the only real problem is that you have no levelling options because every encounter murders you.
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Finally got out of 13F and got thrown right into 14F of the first game. I missed this floor even less than 13F. Why is everything suddenly level 60 or higher? How are you even supposed to get on that level from 12F to 13F? And who thought Ether Flare was a good idea?? The first Labyrinth of Touhou is so painful at times. Atleast the bosses could be worse... the only real problem is that you have no levelling options because every encounter murders you.
It's because the real fun starts there, there's no option but to explore the floor little by little, making sure you're not wiped out, as it restarts your progress. Explore, beat enemies, retreat, explore again. Good way to level and loot.
And you haven't seen the Plus Disk floors yet. Good luck.
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As horrible as it sounds, I think I'm going to try and get the affinities on my assault team up to 100 each. This is going to take a while...
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Guys, do you hate the random encounters while you're exploring and fear about being wiped out? That's easy, escape every battle. How? Well, here's how we gonna do it.
We need two party members, that is Chen and Aya. Why? They are the fastest of all the party members naturally.
After that, gear up with every TP items that you have to them, this will make less backtracking and allows you to explore longer.
And in LoT2, make sure you have the Aya's first turn skill and Chen's Screw This, I'm Outta Here! skill.
With that, you're ready to explore while avoiding enemies! Just make sure you didn't hit any boss tiles, especially in LoT1.
I think this is general knowledge, but I still want to share this for people who don't know that yet.
Edit: What am I saying? It's TP not SP.
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That's a sound piece of advice to give, but it does also add the concern of how you wont get the money and experience needed to defeat bosses and such. For simple exploration and item gathering though, I can see how it might be applicable.
A tip of my own to give in LOT2 is using debuffs often, since most bosses can be debuffed to some extent. And for exploration, wave clearing attacks are practically a must in order to not lose TP at a quick rate.
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I honestly have more of a problem getting the EXP needed to keep up with enemies etc. rather than exploring the floor itself.
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To Mono:
I haven't played much of LOT1, so I can't really help you with that.
Although, if you're really having trouble with keeping up with levels, you could try grinding on the floor below, or using an Aya Marisa nuke combo (or some other nuke method) and advancing very slowly, only doing singular battles then retreating back to Gensokyo and saving.
Sounds slow, but you might be able to gain higher levels this way?
Speaking of, how did people deal with Desire Eating Demon? I was overleveled and he still wiped out my entire team on several occasions. I beat him eventually, but I was curious as to how others dealt with him.
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I suppose taking it slowly for now is my only choice, eh?
Speaking of, how did people deal with Desire Eating Demon? I was overleveled and he still wiped out my entire team on several occasions. I beat him eventually, but I was curious as to how others dealt with him.
Cheesed with Magician Rin spamming Cat's Walk. :V Honestly, the LoT2 Postgame is so brutal I don't think I would've gotten anywhere without cheesing on several occasions.
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Cheesed with Magician Rin spamming Cat's Walk. :V Honestly, the LoT2 Postgame is so brutal I don't think I would've gotten anywhere without cheesing on several occasions.
That actually works? I'm surprised. I just full out damage raced it with a squad of level 230s, even though that failed like 5 times. The most hilarious part was that the time that I actually killed him, it was Reimu's Fantasy Seal.
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That actually works? I'm surprised. I just full out damage raced it with a squad of level 230s, even though that failed like 5 times. The most hilarious part was that the time that I actually killed him, it was Reimu's Fantasy Seal.
Yeah, I used it, she just kept spamming Cat's Walk with the SHK Equipment on and she basically SHK'd him pretty much every time so he couldn't really get a turn in at all. Just gotta be fast. And don't forget to attack in the meantime. Aya is pretty much a must to keep speed buffs up so the SHK spam doesn't fall short.
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I'd heard of that theory with Magician Rin's Cat Walk and a Great Hammer, but I never thought it actually worked. Huh.
Anybody got any funny stories about the post game? I've got one with The Second Sun.
So, my standard set up is Momiji, Suika, Reimu, and Marisa, along with Team Nine and Rinnosuke with Yukari, Byakuren, and Eiki.
It switched my team set up in every single battle that I had with it when using Time Space Warp and got my lowest defense characters each time. Follow that up with a Severing Flash (I think it was that) and I got wiped out several times over. I only managed to kill it when I managed to keep Momiji in one of my active slots when it switched my team around. And the fact that Rinnosuke was the one to kill it, despite not having any offensive levels.
Also, Toxicologist Wriggle tears apart everything in existence that isn't immune to poison. Seriously, it was at times the only way that I could deal enough damage to outpace some regeneration and other annoying bosses. (Freaking wasps...)
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Yeah, I started the postgame recently to get ready for Plus Disc and it's been pretty crazy so far, even by Labyrinth of Touhou's already spiky difficulty.
Anybody got any funny stories about the post game?
I looked on the JP wiki and realized that two of the shadows of early game bosses still weren't immune to instant death :V
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Anybody got any funny stories about the post game?
Not sure about funny, but I decided to beat all 12 Shadow bosses without using a character in more than one fight. That led to some pretty interesting parties to take out certain bosses. Not to mention two parties could only have 3 members in them, so for example my Kraken fighting team was Minoriko, Iku and Nazrin.
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Healing, Defense debuff, and quick magic. That must have been a fun battle.
I did have a bit of strange strategy for Guardian of the Crystals. The wiki says that you should eliminate the crystals first, but I killed the Guardian itself first. Afterwards I just nuked them all into oblivion. Good times.
Also, if anyone is having trouble with crafting Zeus's Armor and/or the Genji Glove (Or really farming for any materials, I know I had a lot of trouble), try a team with Rinnosuke and Nazrin. Both enhance your item finding abilities to great extents, especially when on the front line. The three materials that I assume most will have trouble with are the Light Needle, Dragon's Mane, and Mysterious Structure.
Light Needles can be found from Eiki (Boss), Scorched Fairies (Floor 15 Extra), and Guardians of Heaven (Floor 20, East and West).
The Dragon's Mane can be found on 16F Extra as an item find, and from Dragon Larvae. Note that Dragon larvae can only be found on the right (East) side of Floor 16 Extra, and they only have a less than 1% chance to drop it.
Mysterious structure can be found fairly easily from Gelatin Cubes (Floor 16 and 16 Extra), especially with the item drop bonuses from the two party members, Rinnosuke and Nazrin.
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Thanks to the JP wiki, I have finally found Alluvial Kedama. Finished updating it on the wiki.
http://i.imgur.com/sSrgnoy.png
The Dragon's Mane can be found on 16F Extra as an item find, and from Dragon Larvae. Note that Dragon larvae can only be found on the right (East) side of Floor 16 Extra, and they only have a less than 1% chance to drop it.
Thanks for the information on that. So that's why I can't seem to find them more than once.
Also I should note that Dragon's Whiskers is one of the required material for crafting Genji Glove. It is only dropped by 12F Tenshi and the 16F dragon FOE. The latter has 50% chance of drop.
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Is there a missing sector of Floor 9 Extra? Because I'm looking at the Japanese Wiki Map, and there isn't a path in a certain section. But as I'm walking past that section, I can clearly see an item in there. Has anybody else seen this? The pictures contain what I'm talking about. The first is of my map, then the Wiki's map, and finally my exploration screen where I see the unreachable item.
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Tried to use Cheat Engine to get into that area, but unfortunately I'm bad at finding the X and Y position, and ended up crashing my computer instead, so I gave up. Am curious about that area myself. Could be something for the expansion.
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No. It's impossible to get over there.
Someone did use cheat engine to see what that item is. I don't remember exactly, but it was something entirely unremarkable.
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Aw. I was hoping that it was like, another Godly Sword Ame no Murakumo. :3
Also, Aya's speed is terrifying. I tried leveling her speed up to like, 300, and she was outpacing Skull Eaters with ease.
Also, I found a way to do a new game +, but with all of your stuff and the maps unlocked. Begin a new game, and take out the EVF01.ngd file from that new game. Don't do anything yet in game. Close your game, then copy paste the entirety of your completed save file into the new save file. But delete the completed game's EVF file, and replace it with the one from the new game. And there you have it, a true new game + where you can tear through every single enemy in the game with ease and revisit all of those nasty little critters and bosses that you raged over, and watch how you annihilate them.
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Oh, hey, that New Game+ hax is really useful. It can really help obtaining items that can only obtained once or by limited amount per playthrough, or just a hassle to get it. (Also, maxing out those 3 "increasing rates" items.)
Now I shall grind for infinite Godly Sword Ame-no-Murakumo. :D
(Nah, that will make the expansion too easy.)
EDIT: I have tested putting 3 Genji Glove on Eiki through Cheat Engine. It doesn't stack to 6x damage, but it makes 2x damage happen easier. (maybe)
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Yeah, I started the postgame recently to get ready for Plus Disc and it's been pretty crazy so far, even by Labyrinth of Touhou's already spiky difficulty.
I looked on the JP wiki and realized that two of the shadows of early game bosses still weren't immune to instant death :V
The funny thing is, it turns out that applies to the Poisoning Wasp as well as the other two. Despite having star death resist I was still able to one-shot it with Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana several times in the boss rush :V
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Aw, Genji Gloves can't double or triple proc? Oh well. The stats are still really good.
The only issue with that is that it does take a decent amount of time to do each time, but if you want multiple one playthrough only items, you could do it. Also, you should note that I don't think anything in the special items section registers anymore, or at least none of the things needed for opening rocks and character recruitment items. But the game won't crash when you get Hakurouken again.
Also, if you have equipment that gives you an ailment effect, and you use attacks that carry that ailment, is the damage/duration/hit rate increased? So like, Midgard's Tooth on Wriggle.
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Basically, it just increase the chance of inflicting that ailment. That's why when fighting Desire Demon, most people use Orin equipped with Great Hammer. If Orin's Cat's Walk Shock effect fails, Great Hammer might successfully inflict it.
at least none of the things needed for opening rocks and character recruitment items. But the game won't crash when you get Hakurouken again.
This is also seen in the real NG+. You still have to get the Hakuroken and fight Youmu to pass the ice on 1F.
Another issue with New Game+ Hax is Treasure Chest Key is harder to come by. Since some of them come from achievement and it is registered as current one on that save, you might not be able to open all of the chests.
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Ah, the treasure chest keys. That's right... but don't you have excess just from the standard game alone? I still have three, and I think I've explored the entire game.
But doesn't the real New Game + reset everything, and therefore you don't have any of your items? I know that it is required to fight and recruit Youmu even if you have her in order to pass the ice, but I meant that since you have all of your special items left over, the game doesn't crash from trying to reregister Harukouken again.
Also, one of the other ngd files oversees acheivments, so you could also reset the completed save file set with the fresh one.
PAC01 contains the flags for achievements that you have obtained but not checked yet. You'll recognize them on the achievement screen from the exclamation marks on them.
PAM01 has achievement flags. 0x2 = achievement gotten, 0x1 = achievement revealed, and 0x0 = achievement hidden.
In this case, I think you would replace just the second? ??? But you might need to replace both.
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Whoops, totally forgot about that excess one but I'm not sure if the key gained from exploration only will be enough for the total locked chest. Too lazy to check now.
EDIT: 10 Keys can be gained from achievements and 3 excess keys. So with achievements already completed, I am short of 7 keys to open all possible locked chest.
Anyhow, thanks for the trick. I won't be using it but I will keep it as general knowledge.
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Is there a missing sector of Floor 9 Extra? Because I'm looking at the Japanese Wiki Map, and there isn't a path in a certain section. But as I'm walking past that section, I can clearly see an item in there. Has anybody else seen this? The pictures contain what I'm talking about. The first is of my map, then the Wiki's map, and finally my exploration screen where I see the unreachable item.
Someone mentioned a method by editing the floor TXT files, i think i posted it some pages back, the items were if my memory isnt bad:Mr midnight oil set,war mask of the butcher and Items discovery weekly, Nothing special
I just used the NG+ File (Without maribel and renko to not break the game) and i noticed the achievent #1 is missing, is that normal? plus the save file says achievements 104, Just like my cleared main one
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I'm at 19F and I learned that the best thing for dealing with most everything that breathes on that floor is either Nature attacks from a strong enough mage or fighter, or trying out Magic Satori with Narrow Confines of Avici and discovering that even when resisted, enemies still die due to either damage or or the death effect of the spell. Only evasion allows for anyone to survive it, and solving that would actually be as simple as giving Satori a Accuracy Boost Tome and getting the points for it. This is harder than it sounds, since leveling up Satori is much harder than with most characters, and I also need Satori to be quick enough to fire off a spell in the first place, so I also gave her a Speed Boost Tome, so I have a bit of a resource issue there.
Why not just bring Aya? All you really need from her is MP and her Gensokyo's Fastest Lessons skill to ensure Satori nukes every enemy before their turn. Not saying that using a Speed Boost Tome on her is a bad idea but Aya is unbelievably broken for trash encounters. Unless of course, this is a themed run through or a run through with a specific team.
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So, from what I can tell, the Plus disc is slated for release in August at Comiket?
If it is, the hype train shall live on for another 2 months! :derp:
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I stated to farm dragon manes so i can deck flanre with 3 genji gloves (Do the 2x damage chance stacks?)
Is the Dragon Foe at 15F the only thing that drops the whiskers? :V
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I've heard that the chance becomes higher, but the damage won't proc twice, or three times. Speaking of, good luck on 16F Extra with those Dragon Manes. I had a nightmare trying to farm them with Rinnosuke and Nazrin. My team is around level 270 though, so farming has become signifigantly easier. That and the fact that Fantasy Seal rips everything apart on that floor, but meh. :V
And I believe that the Blazing Lava Dragon FOE is the only enemy that can drop Dragon Whiskers. Besides Tenshi that is.
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So, from what I can tell, the Plus disc is slated for release in August at Comiket?
If it is, the hype train shall live on for another 2 months! :derp:
That would be the most logical guess since 3peso was apparently considering releasing at Reitaisai, but I don't know that it's been confirmed or anything, haven't been reading his twitter (I probably would if it was just Labyrinth of Touhou stuff, but he does a lot of blogging about games he's playing or other random things).
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I've heard that the chance becomes higher, but the damage won't proc twice, or three times. Speaking of, good luck on 16F Extra with those Dragon Manes. I had a nightmare trying to farm them with Rinnosuke and Nazrin. My team is around level 270 though, so farming has become signifigantly easier. That and the fact that Fantasy Seal rips everything apart on that floor, but meh. :V
And I believe that the Blazing Lava Dragon FOE is the only enemy that can drop Dragon Whiskers. Besides Tenshi that is.
Those manes were easy to get with Remilia+Flandre being Monk hitting everything, other members being rinnosuke and meiling for SDM bonus,Only 2 more dragon whiskers for the third genji glove
Now i spent 1 hour trying to get light needles on 20F to craft (Maybe 3 or more) Zeus armor for patchouli and kaguya,NOT ONE even dropped, the RNG hates me plenty here,
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Oh, Light Needle RNG hates everyone apparently. Also, I meant my actual farming team had a horrible time, meaning Keine, Rinnosuke, Nazrin, and Komachi. This team does not work on extra floors. DX
Now, on the other hand my assault team rips through everything on all floors with ease. :3
On a side note, the farming team works wonderfully for 20F Depths, due to Keine's 6% EXP boost, Komachi's 20% Money increase, Nazrin's 20% item Drop rate and her money, EXP and item Drop attacks, and Rinnosuke's Item and Money increases, which are 40% and 20%, respectively. Wait, does Keine's EXP skill go to all party members, even when she's not on the front line and just in your party?
Also, funny tidbit, Komachi is finally over 100,000 base health, and with good equipment that increases to 150,000. If only she didn't take so much damage... but she worked wonders for defense and mind ignoring attacks.
3 Zeus Armors? I pray for the incoming grind fest that will soon occur. My Light Needle reserves are horrible. DX
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Oh, Light Needle RNG hates everyone apparently. Also, I meant my actual farming team had a horrible time, meaning Keine, Rinnosuke, Nazrin, and Komachi. This team does not work on extra floors. DX
Now, on the other hand my assault team rips through everything on all floors with ease. :3
On a side note, the farming team works wonderfully for 20F Depths, due to Keine's 6% EXP boost, Komachi's 20% Money increase, Nazrin's 20% item Drop rate and her money, EXP and item Drop attacks, and Rinnosuke's Item and Money increases, which are 40% and 20%, respectively. Wait, does Keine's EXP skill go to all party members, even when she's not on the front line and just in your party?
Also, funny tidbit, Komachi is finally over 100,000 base health, and with good equipment that increases to 150,000. If only she didn't take so much damage... but she worked wonders for defense and mind ignoring attacks.
3 Zeus Armors? I pray for the incoming grind fest that will soon occur. My Light Needle reserves are horrible. DX
Eventually i shall get 3 for her and maybe 1-2 for kaggy....She will lose some MND but in exchange her HP and DEF should be sufficient to not die in a single hit plus the 0 damage procs
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Just looking through the LOT2 enemy's data and I found that Debuff has a separate resistances.
For example, 9F Tenshi has ATK-debuff and MAG-debuff resistances of 60 and Speed-debuff by 100 and 0 in DEF and MND. As a result, you will be more likely to reduce her defensive stats more than her speed.
That explains why when I fought Super Tenshi, I can't seem to debuff her Speed. Urgh, this game has too many hidden evil mechanics.
Unrelated: How come you guys farm Dragon's Mane so easily? 1 hour straight and still no drop for me.
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Try a team that can easily wave clear, but add Rinosuke and Nazrin. Both of them add immense bonuses to your item drop rate. Also, the only time that I can get Dragon Manes is when my item drop bonus is at least over 100%, so you need to fight a lot consecutively while in a single dungeon dive. For me that's Momiji, Reimu, and Marisa, but I still keep Suika on hand for both the EXP and if I need to nuke any enemies.
And debuffs have separate resistances? That's horrifying. :ohdear:
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That explains why when I fought Super Tenshi, I can't seem to debuff her Speed. Urgh, this game has too many hidden evil mechanics.
The most annoying part is that the bestiary's debuff resistance seems to be ATK only, since that's the first entry. Which means that an enemy that supposed has no debuff resistance whatsoever might be vulnerable to ATK debuffs and nothing else.
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Why not just bring Aya? All you really need from her is MP and her Gensokyo's Fastest Lessons skill to ensure Satori nukes every enemy before their turn. Not saying that using a Speed Boost Tome on her is a bad idea but Aya is unbelievably broken for trash encounters. Unless of course, this is a themed run through or a run through with a specific team.
I actually do bring Aya, and she's needed at all times to keep me from getting hit by anything on 19-20F. The thing is that passive Speed buffs from Aya aren't enough to Speed up Satori enough to OHKO with Narrow Confines of Avici, she has to be actively buffed after Aya buffs herself, leading me to having Aya wear a Elixir of Mages for the MP Regen boost instead of a Tokyo Metronome for more TP. I want to Speed up Satori to the point where active buffing is not required to strike first, and since there are enemies that dodge stuff like mad up there, I also need Accuracy to make sure that the hits land without fail.
Also, as a surprise to me, Mystia is also a good answer to one-shotting foes if I've run out of time for anything else, due to Instant Attack. Mystia is indeed the bird who solves everything up there, to the point where I practically say "Mystia, Save us all!" when I end up switching her in...
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I actually do bring Aya, and she's needed at all times to keep me from getting hit by anything on 19-20F. The thing is that passive Speed buffs from Aya aren't enough to Speed up Satori enough to OHKO with Narrow Confines of Avici, she has to be actively buffed after Aya buffs herself, leading me to having Aya wear a Elixir of Mages for the MP Regen boost instead of a Tokyo Metronome for more TP. I want to Speed up Satori to the point where active buffing is not required to strike first, and since there are enemies that dodge stuff like mad up there, I also need Accuracy to make sure that the hits land without fail.
The way to abuse Aya that jaxter was probably referring to was to start Satori in the backlines, and have Aya switch her in at the start of the battle. She'll then start with 7500 gauge which should allow her to easily get her turn before any enemies (except maybe the puppet tops). As a bonus, if Aya wasn't the one switched out, she'll also restart at 7500 gauge, easily giving her another turn to give her turn to someone else or switch someone else in.
This does mean you have to remember to switch Satori to the backlines again every battle though.
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...
Switching her in for the sake of a 7500 time gauge...
I'll think on that while plotting a way to pummel 20F Mirror(I got to the check point right next to it, so...).
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The way to abuse Aya that jaxter was probably referring to was to start Satori in the backlines, and have Aya switch her in at the start of the battle. She'll then start with 7500 gauge which should allow her to easily get her turn before any enemies (except maybe the puppet tops). As a bonus, if Aya wasn't the one switched out, she'll also restart at 7500 gauge, easily giving her another turn to give her turn to someone else or switch someone else in.
This does mean you have to remember to switch Satori to the backlines again every battle though.
Uh, no.
The trick is Aya's spell Divine Grandson's Advent, that gives instant turn to anyone. So with Gensokyo's Fastest Lesson, Aya will instanly take a turn at the start of the battle, cast the spell on Satori, and Satori wrecks havoc onto the enemies. Rinse and repeat till Aya's or Satori's MP is drained, rest, and do it again till TP drops.
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Uh, no.
The trick is Aya's spell Divine Grandson's Advent, that gives instant turn to anyone. So with Gensokyo's Fastest Lesson, Aya will instanly take a turn at the start of the battle, cast the spell on Satori, and Satori wrecks havoc onto the enemies. Rinse and repeat till Aya's or Satori's MP is drained, rest, and do it again till TP drops.
That's the more obvious way yes - but the way I posted saves on MP (Aya doesn't need to spend MP on Advent) and thus TP (less/no need to use Rest) at the cost of having to re-configure your formation after every battle. If you're confident in your main attacker(s) attacks killing all the enemies, you can even have Aya switch herself out for the main attacker(s) and prevent her TP loss from the battle as well as giving an MP boost to herself (since she'll usually get her turn at the backline faster than whoever she switched in). That was really important for me, since near endgame, the longevity of my party in the dungeon was pretty much directly equivalent to Aya's longevity, and the longer you last, the higher you can drag those EXP/Item drop chains.
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Speaking of Rest, I really missed the Rest command in LOT1 where you recover MP by a certain amount in exchange of 2 TP every time. In LOT2, you have to spend TPs until you recover all of your MP.
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Today i learned what Frustration looks like.
(http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/h/o/holy_flayer/Shubi.jpg)
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Today i learned what Frustration looks like.
(http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/h/o/holy_flayer/Shubi.jpg)
Oh my god, I almost spit my drink when I saw that post. And I'm so, so sorry. :ohdear:
On a side note, Light Needles and Dragon Manes decided to love me all of a sudden. I've got 4 of both items. :3
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I have got 12 Dragon's Mane now. :3
RNG seems to be generous to me lately. I got 2 Grand Master Breaker Title, HEV Suit and Cinderforge Sword during one of my explorations. Now I have about 8 for each of them. :]
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How much have you been farming/how lucky are you to get 12 Dragon Manes?
Also, my Assault team is finally at all 50s for Affinities.
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Actually, I got only 10 through farming. The other 2 were from the treasure chest.
I used Nazrin and Rinnosuke and other fast sweepers for grinding. Nazrin was built with high MAG, SPD and TP (around 25) and Rinnosuke was built to be pure DEF tank and had very high TP (around 36). I used Reisen, Alice, Chen, Orin and Sakuya for sweeping everything in one or two turn. I also gave Reisen and Alice 300 voile level in MAG and SPD respectively. (Reisen was not powerful enough and Alice was not fast enough to one-hit those Dark Carapace Fishs)
Whenever I found Dragon Larva, I always killed it with Nazrin's Rare Metal Detector as to double the drop rate. (1.6% to 3.2%) I failed most of the time though even if 3 Dragon Larva were presented and destroyed.
At the time when I began farming more, the total gameplay time was around 47 hours. Currently, I'm about 61 hours now. So, that took a total of 14 hours of grinding and frustration.
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Today i learned what Frustration looks like.
(http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/h/o/holy_flayer/Shubi.jpg)
What exactly am I supposed to be seeing here... All I see is the beginning of the boss fight....
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What exactly am I supposed to be seeing here... All I see is the beginning of the boss fight....
I think he means the boss Hp regen ability, i believe 1-2 more got that thing...
The disugusting hellworm FOE thing, that boss, and mokou
man everyone is already swimming on dragon manes, i should stop lazying around and start farming
Okay, i need 11 more zeus armor (2 for reimu, 3 for utsuho, 3 for kaguya, 3 for patchy) and 1 more genji glove (Flandre wil have 3 gloves just 1 more dragon whisker to complete the third one)
rinnosuke has 72 TP, that means i can usually get a 72 battle chain on floor 20 East/west sides and get about 1-2 light needles per dive
Here is my assault team, SDM bonus+Monk Remilia/Flandre to kill everything in 1 command on floors 20, For the dragon mane farming only the dark carapaces are a problem, for those i use the monk defense piercing skills or leavetin
Current party and farming front party
(http://i.imgur.com/7MSJvQF.png)
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Why not include sanae instead of reimu for the farming? Her TP restoring skill is really useful in getting large chains of battles.
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Maybe for the mp gain after battles? Reimu's mp restoring skill has a decent proc rate, and mp is almost always a must to keep yourself from losing TP. Unless you've got ridiculously high levels and/or speed and power and defense. And how did you get 72 TP on Rinnosuke? TP increase items?
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Kinda unrelated to the topics on hand here but,
After I have played Persona 4 Golden's "Midnight Trivia Miracle Quiz", I thought "What if Labyrinth of Touhou has a quiz like this?" I thought it would be fun to create a quiz of this game so I made one. If anyone is interested, you can try. It's a quiz for LOT2 only but the questions are not as nerve-wrecking as the ones in P4.
http://pastebin.com/VhXuqa3S
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Maybe for the mp gain after battles? Reimu's mp restoring skill has a decent proc rate, and mp is almost always a must to keep yourself from losing TP. Unless you've got ridiculously high levels and/or speed and power and defense. And how did you get 72 TP on Rinnosuke? TP increase items?
Then the question becomes why not both Sanae and Reimu?
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Currently playing a 3rd playthrough that I will likely only play for the story until 6F (That's the point I was at my 2nd playthrough when the fully translated English patch came out. I know the story already from that point onward). One piece of conversation really amused me :D:
(http://i.imgur.com/eLxp4Mg.png)
I guess 3peso ships KeineXWriggle? What a random combination...
I was also thinking of gathering maybe one or two Dragon Manes, as I wonder if we might need a few for new crafting recipes when the expansion comes out. So far, I saw only very few Dragon Puppies or whatever the enemies on 16F Extra were called. Is there perhaps a spot on the map where they are especially likely to appear?
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...Well, that would make the other Team 9 members secret shippers if they find out about this. :3
Dragon Larva can only be found on the eastern side of 16F extra where you have to past the rock first. It also appears randomly though I often find it while wandering around the center area.
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Dragon Larva can only be found on the eastern side of 16F extra where you have to past the rock first. It also appears randomly though I often find it while wandering around the center area.
Alright, thanks! I think I'll keep searching there then.
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Kinda unrelated to the topics on hand here but,
After I have played Persona 4 Golden's "Midnight Trivia Miracle Quiz", I thought "What if Labyrinth of Touhou has a quiz like this?" I thought it would be fun to create a quiz of this game so I made one. If anyone is interested, you can try. It's a quiz for LOT2 only but the questions are not as nerve-wrecking as the ones in P4.
http://pastebin.com/VhXuqa3S
Oh perfect, Quizzes are fun. I'm probably wrong, but I'll guess.
1. A. The left spear.
2. B. Physical.
3. B. Paralysis.
4. D. Yukari.
5. D. Forest Fairy.
6. C. Holy Sword Gran Centurio.
7. C. Space Compression.
8. C. 200.
9. C. Decapitating Skeleton
10. C. Royal Flare
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Thanks for giving this quiz an attention. Here's the answer. If you answer wrong because of the question's ambiguity then my apologies, some questions are hard to transcribe.
1. C (Actually, the question is asking from your perspective and by "the right spear", I mean the spear is thrown in the right direction first.)
2. B
3. A (It inflicts Poison, Paralysis, Heavy and Silence.)
4. C (When Wriggle is on the frontline, she is facing right but when you take a look at her status, she is now facing left. Other characters will always face in the same direction in both frontline and status.)
5. D
6. B (Holy Sword Gran Centurio can be dropped from the Mirror of the High God (I didn't say anything about "random encounter only."))
7. C
8. C
9. C
10. A (0% 15% 32% and 10% delay respectively.)
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Then the question becomes why not both Sanae and Reimu?
That's kind of why you would want them around in the first place. They both give a good degree of support, both in and outside of battle, and they can deal some damage if built for that as well.
On that note, since composite spells are genuinely much better in LoT2 than in LoT1 due to the fact that all attack spells only target DEF or MND, never both, wouldn't that mean that it's high time to do a revision on the descriptions for many of the characters in LoT2? I figure that I should start with Reimu, since all of her attack spells are composite. Would Reimu make good use of an offensive build? I actually need to think on stuff as I edit the character descriptions to be up to date...
Also, how many enemies tend to throw Spirit attacks at you that you'll want to reduce the damage from? I can only think of the final boss for that sort of situation, but there's got to be others that throw stuff like that...
Edit: I just remembered that Last Judgement is a Spirit attack, so Reimu's SPI damage reduced skill would help out there. And Tenshi's Ame-no-Murakumo Wild Dance(the attack she does after focusing for a turn) and her dreaded Sword of Hisou. Hm... Who else has an attack that Reimu's defensive skill would work on and be useful to weaken(Yukari's Mesh of Light and Darkness does not count, as it's effect is what makes it such a pain, not it's damage)?
Edit, the 2nd: Oh, is it okay to write in that Spirit damage reduction is useful against the final boss? Figured that I should ask that before posting... Or maybe I should post what I'm typing up over here to show you guys before writing it into the wiki... I'm pulling a copypasta here, and this is an edit of what is already written in for Reimu(I'll highlight the edited parts in bold), so please tell me what you think...
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Reimu is a well-rounded character who will end up being one of your most effective supports as you progress through the Great Tree. Early on she can help plow through random encounters(especially with composite spells being better here than in LoT1 due to them being mitigated by either Defense or Mind, but never both), but her mediocre offenses mean she will eventually fall back into supporting, where she really shines. Exorcising Border is one of only a few healing abilities that hits your entire front line, and Great Hakurei Barrier can help blunt a lot of damage when cast early in a tough battle. Both of these spells are fairly expensive and slow; Reimu probably won't spend a lot of time out on the front. Her innate bulk isn't bad, and with little reason to seriously pump her offense you should invest in defensive stats to make sure she stays healthy. While the general quality of characters has risen from LoT1 and thus Reimu isn't as stellar as in the first game, she's still a solid character that makes a great backbone for any party.
For her skills, Hakurei's Divine Protection is very useful for prolonging your trips within the Great Tree, although priority should be given to to boosting Reimu's stats, first. Youkai Buster can also be useful against bosses that are classified as such; they are very rarely found on early floors but become increasingly common as you move up the dungeon. Armored Yin-Yang Orb is good against those few bosses that have powerful Spirit attacks(Tenshi, Eiki, the final boss), while Main Character - Reimu is good for when the battle drags on and you end up losing more party members(it's also unique for creating an "L" shape right next to her portrait and for being one of the few ways to buff EVA). Finally, Grand Incantation is good all around to power up your spells, including healing, during boss battles.
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Armored Yin-Yang Orb is good against those few bosses that have powerful Spirit attacks(Tenshi, Eiki, the final boss), while Main Character - Reimu is good for when the battle drags on and you end up losing more party members(it's also unique for creating an "L" shape right next to her portrait and for being one of the few ways to buff EVA). Finally, Grand Incantation is good all around to power up your spells, including healing, during boss battles.
Just my two cents, but I don't think we should tell who uses Spirit attacks because it might be a spoiler to some new players who happen to look at the page. (again, just my two cents) Also, There are a few more bosses who have Spirit attacks (including what you have mentioned: Tenshi x3, Eiki, Final Boss, Yukari.) You can dismiss it if you don't find it threatening.
Kaguya (Buddha's Stone Bowl/ Bullet Branch of Hourai)
Komachi (Narrow Confines of Avici/Scythe that chooses the Dead)
Yuyuko (Ghostly Dream's Butterfly/Ghastly Dream)
Ran/Yuugi (Well, they do have ONE but you will rarely see it.) (Fox-Tanuki Youkai Laser/Irremovable Shackles)
That makes 11 bosses. So, should we should say that Armored Yin-Yang Orb is good against bosses that have powerful Spirit attacks (and there are quite a number of them?)
Also, I should mention that "Main Character - Reimu" skill still counts as buffs so Tenshi's Sword of Hisou or monsters with "Shredder" skill can dispel them. Unlike, Last Fortress skill which counts as "innate buff" instead but it doesn't buff EVA.
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Thanks for said cents, Kageshirou. I kind of needed some change... :D
But in all seriousness, thanks. And thanks for telling me about who actually has such attacks. I actually did not know that Fox-Tanuki Youkai Laser was a Spirit attack when Ran uses it in her boss fight. It's a Mystic attack when you recruit her, to my joy(she's excellent for farming in the "non-depths" part of 20F.), so I didn't know that part.
Also, about those attacks...
Kaguya: Buddha's Stone Bowl is not exactly threatening, given that she's the first magic caster type boss you'll likely meet in the game. Bullet Branch of Hourai, on the other hand, is a flat out battle-ender damage wise, akin to stuff like Flandre's Levatain, so you should be trying to end the fight before she uses it, not tanking it.
Komachi: Narrow Confines of Avici's danger is in it's death effect, like the rest of her boss fight. For the most part, once Komachi is using Scythe that Chooses the Dead, you should be trying to end the fight as quickly as possible, not tanking hits.
Yuyuko: Both attacks are strong, but again, it's their death effect that's the real danger here.
Ran: Given that her one Spirit attack is rare, it's not exactly worth worrying about.
Yuugi: While it is strong, Yuugi's fight is more or less a flat out damage race, so defense is effectively pointless.
So, in short... Spirit damage reduction isn't very useful outside a few key instances (Eiki's Last Judgement, several of the sword's attacks...), but when you do need it for a fight, it's actually important...
And I need to turn in for the night where I am, so I'll just stop my reply here for now, since I really do need the sleep...
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*laughing out loud due to cheesy pun*
Back on topic: Whoops, I have just checked and found out that Ran's Fox-Tanuki Youkai Laser (as a recruited character and her boss fight) is Mystic in this game. It was Spirit in LoT1 so I must kinda have mixed up those two. :V
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Yuugi: While it is strong, Yuugi's fight is more or less a flat out damage race, so defense is effectively pointless.
That may be true in Labyrinth of Touhou 1, but not true in Labyrinth of Touhou 2. If you want to spec to tanking Yuugi, you can. I'm talking about not overlevelling to do this either.
You can tank her Knock out in 3 Steps if you set up before hand.
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Completed LoT2 main game. Final Boss at challenge level was surprisingly easy, especially compared to my first time with Mari fight in LoT1.
On a sort of related note, Tenshi with 3 drums and some extra phys affinity is broken, because Tenshi can tank Ragetsu Fists. Which is awesome.
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Completed LoT2 main game. Final Boss at challenge level was surprisingly easy, especially compared to my first time with Mari fight in LoT1.
On a sort of related note, Tenshi with 3 drums and some extra phys affinity is broken, because Tenshi can tank Ragetsu Fists. Which is awesome.
Oh my god, I forgot about physical affinity.
I could have not gotten ripped apart by Ragetsu Fists if I just remembered... :ohdear:
I think I might try getting a little further in the first game when I have time.
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Completed LoT2 main game. Final Boss at challenge level was surprisingly easy, especially compared to my first time with Mari fight in LoT1.
On a sort of related note, Tenshi with 3 drums and some extra phys affinity is broken, because Tenshi can tank Ragetsu Fists. Which is awesome.
Mine was the opposite, Mari was pretty easy while the Sword gave me some issues. That being said my Library levels were terribly low over all, the max level I had for anyone was 60.
Now the 2nd versions of both flipped. Mari V2 is insane, while V2 Sword was not bad at all. Overall though the post game for LoT2 is much harder than LoT1, other than the last boss.
You almost needed the append disk for Mari V2, while it isn't really needed as much for LoT2.
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I just thought of something for a superboss fight, or rather, a super Wolfpack boss fight.
Shredding, Aria-Singing, and Staring. The three things that appeared when you fought the final boss of the first game all at once.
My idea for a super wolfpack boss is to do just that, to fight all three of those things at the same time.
Now, from 1 to "Oh dear gods, why?", how hard would it be to fight such a set of bosses?
Also, I believe that they should of simply of replaced the last part of the Ame-no-Murakumo fight (Summoning the Guardians of Heaven) with the whole "summoning the two arms" thing. That way, since the HP of the sword would be much less than the arms themselves, the "blowup the sword before the arms and it comes back at full health" thing would be far more relevant, as simply blasting everything would lead to you dealing with a fully healed sword, which is never good, thus making you actually be careful when aiming in that last phase.
What do you guys think?
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Yeah, I think buffing Ame-no-Murakamo a little won't hurt. He summons his minions only at 25% HP (>300k HP), and some characters are able to deal more than 300k in one hit, so skipping last phase is not hard. Also this strategy needs to be fixed:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/amxxz8.png)
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Also this strategy needs to be fixed
Yes. If you have someone who can consistently-land Terror, Parsee's a goddamn murdermachine because you can just bounce between Terror skill+JoKaL.
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I'm glad that you agree with me. Parsee wrecks that blade like it's nothing, what with her Dark element nuke(which is easy to set up thanks to the fact that the sword can be hit with Terror easily, which weakens it further), her "powerup for everyone who's with debuffs" passive on, as well as her Dark damage boost. And the sword's debuffed too, so it's weakened even more. I also want to believe that she's on Gambler, because if she isn't, then that's seriously broken worse than with Flandre, and you get her much sooner and with no tough fight or requirements beyond "get 12 people into your party". Parsee's niche, to be sure, but when said niche is up, she wrecks, period.
Yes. If you have someone who can consistently-land Terror, Parsee's a goddamn murdermachine because you can just bounce between Terror skill+JoKaL.
And this is why Kogasa and Parsee are a duet to consider when wanting to wreck the sword, because Kogasa can land the ailment even more easily thanks to Sheer Force, so Parsee can keep on wrecking. Also, I do believe that the wrecking strategy requires the power of Hina, as Parsee becomes stronger when people are debuffed, and a debuffed Hina is a happy Hina, so...
In other news, I grinded on the 20F Mirror to get the rare drop, and... I have no idea who to put it on. I mean, my mindset isn't focused on the ATK/MAG boost on it, but it's SPD boost, as it's the best SPD boosting item that I actually have. All in all, I feel that this should be something that replaces a Meteor Drive for most characters or maybe a Wash Basin Set for a glass cannon(at this point, Flandre could use it to amp her everything in terms of spell cards).
As for how I could do so, I ended up using Nitori with the Monk's Iron Mountain Charge and her Overheating and Cooling Down skills to give her increased power and the ability to restore her MP to full with a Earthin Orb equipped(note that Maintenance turn it into a +4 MP regen rate boost, meaning that you get 12 MP per concentrate, and that's before adding one level of Cooling Down, which doubles that to 24 MP, 4 more than her max MP at the time), thus turning her into a serious powerhouse against the Mirror. Ran, by comparison could barely dent the damn thing, and that's when I buffed her up a bit. Bottom line is that Ran is better for floor trash than boss battles with her attack spells, and I still needed to bring in Reimu for group heals, because something that throws several party wide attacks is kind of nuts. I also brought in Parsee as a Strategist Mind tank and I did not regret it, she was immune to everything the boss could throw at her, and the main reason that I had her over Komachi as a tank was the need for the ability to Silence the Mirror, which was very helpful when the ailment was inflicted on it, as it let me not die from it's magic. I also stand by my Enchanter Aya and her ability to throw every kind of buff that she could, starting with SPD, as it lets me make my allies faster, and thus able to do more quite easily(I also was able to use the ATK buff for the sake of powering up Nitori, speeding up the fight a great deal).
Oddly enough, I find myself having no need for the "superhuman buffer monk" as Sanae, Aya and Reimu are all enough to manage my needs in terms of buffs. I may want to sacrifice a level in Expansion of Consciousness to get Ran's specialty up and running, as an Enchanter Ran would be most helpful if I can set her up in time for the final boss(or at least the Magatama, as someone who can heal everyone including the reserve would be helpful in getting everyone healed up and up to snuff against it, especially if I want it's rare drop, which IS useful for ATK and DEF based fighters).
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Yeah, in that case Parsee was a gambler with both skills at level 2(she also had a Herb of Awakening and 6-7 stacks of Jealousy Manipulation). In the first phase of the fight he rarely bothers to target the rightmost slot, so you can safely buff Parsee.
Also, I recently discovered that Nitori's Overheating skill triggers when you use the Attack command (the description states that you should use an offensive spell card ), so I suppose it's a bug.It also works for Okuu, though her spells aren't nearly as damaging as Super Scope 3D.
On an unrelated note, after beating the game 3 times I decided to check which characters I either didn't used at all, or tried using but didn't like:
Rinnosuke (no idea why, I just too used to Komachi) , Youmu, Kogasa, Cirno, probably Minoriko ( used her only in my first playthrough until I got Sanae), Chen(totally ignored her), Mystia(also totally ignored), Meiling(didn't try, though I really liked her in LoT1), Alice, Eirin, Iku, Ran,Remilia, Sakuya, Suwako, Yuuyko and Yukari.
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On an unrelated note, after beating the game 3 times I decided to check which characters I either didn't used at all, or tried using but didn't like:
Rinnosuke (no idea why, I just too used to Komachi) , Youmu, Kogasa, Cirno, probably Minoriko ( used her only in my first playthrough until I got Sanae), Chen(totally ignored her), Mystia(also totally ignored), Meiling(didn't try, though I really liked her in LoT1), Alice, Eirin, Iku, Ran,Remilia, Sakuya, Suwako, Yuuyko and Yukari.
I have played through the game multiple times and I am currently trying to use all the characters before the plus disk comes out. For this playthrough my new characters are youmu (her spells just never seem to do enough damage), mystia (Liking her a lot more than I thought I would), alice (I can't find room for marissa so malice cannon dreams are dead) and sanae (I actually prefer minoriko as a healer, but sanae as a buffer currently using both this playthrough)
After this I just need to use marissa, cirno, suwako, maribel, rinnosuke, chen, nazrin, keine, and mouku.
Its kind of weird to hear you say that you haven't used a good portion of the SDM since they usually end up being the backbone for my teams.
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Well, Meiling is probably good, I'm not denying it. It's just a matter of preference. In my first playthrough Komachi worked pretty well , so in my next runs I used her mostly for the first half of the game,then she got replaced by Tenshi and Renko.
Remilia is kinda overshadowed by Kasen (in my opinion,at least).
Haven't used Mokou as main tank, I only brought her in like 2 times, when her Reincarnation was helpful (like against Yuugi and 3 Dark Orbs).
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Finally came back to the game and finished LoT 2 after taking breaks from it several times. For some reason it didn't manage to hook me as much as the first game which I completed several times.
I'm a bit disappointed in the final floors. Trash was easy and Remilia as a monk could almost solo both of the seal bosses at 20F well below the challenge level.
I didn't like that the final boss had ridiculous defenses. From a game-design standpoint it's okay to have some characters be bad at a boss, but I think it should be the developers goal to make every single playable character at least useful in the final bossfight. Characters without defense-piercing attacks are practically useless against the sword. I would've liked it more if the sword had reasonable defenses but instead twice as much HP. That way the fight would still take just as long, but it wouldn't fuck characters without defense-piercing attacks over and wouldn't make characters with defense-ignoring attacks flat out broken in that fight.
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One more thing:
A while back a user called EthanSilver released a mod-toolkit for the first Labyrinth of Touhou in the Labyrinth of Touhou Rebirth thread, but the links there are expired now.
Does someone still have that toolkit and can reupload it?
I figured I'd ask here so I don't have to bump a thread from 2014.
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So i've been thinking about starting a run with the characters i barely/haven't used too.
Here's the list.
Keine, Youmu, Kaguya, Hina, Utsuho, Satori, Yuugi, Meiling, Eirin, Sanae, Iku, Remilia, Sakuya, Kanako, Suwako, Yuuka, Yukari.
Thoughts?
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So i've been thinking about starting a run with the characters i barely/haven't used too.
Here's the list.
Keine, Youmu, Kaguya, Hina, Utsuho, Satori, Yuugi, Meiling, Eirin, Sanae, Iku, Remilia, Sakuya, Kanako, Suwako, Yuuka, Yukari.
Thoughts?
I just finished a run using a few of those characters, so maybe I can give some input.
Yukari is surprisingly effective as a tank if you pump all of her level up bonuses into DEF. For most of the game I used her as a secondary tank for slot 1 in case Komachi died, but for the final boss she actually seemed to do better than Komachi. She tanked the entire fight with just minimal healing from other characters. Her Border of Wounds and Cures skill is absolutely broken if you use her as a tank, anything that doesn't oneshot her might as well just not hit her at all because she'll be back to almost full health when she gets her next turn. Her Border of Power and Magic protects your other characters while she's out too and she can buff their defenses. I rarely used her Spiriting Away because it was just too expensive, but there's probably some cheesy stuff possible with it.
Kaguya seemed much worse than she was in LoT1 but is probably still a decent character. She's still basically the same character. Slow, squishy, but can deal a lot of defense-piercing damage. Her random SP drain when she gets a turn annoyed me a bit. She can't fill another characters active gauge anymore which was a bummer. I liked that spell a lot in LoT1. I used a full MAG-build with her level-up bonuses, of course.
Keine was my main source of offensive buffs for most of the game and she did a good job at it. She's tanky enough to stay in slot 2 for a while and throw buffs without fear of dying. She's a lot better than in LoT1 because her buffs are no longer separate for ATK and MAG. Her defensive buff also raises MND in addition to DEF now. I used most of her level-up bonuses for DEF and MND since she didn't need to deal damage in my game, she needed to survive and cast buffs.
Sakuya is weird. I think she's in mostly the same position as in the first game which means that she works best as a speed buffer. Her Extra Attack skill also works on auxiliary actions like Lunar Clock so sometimes you'll see her use Lunar Clock 2 or even 3 times after casting it, immediately giving everyone in your active party +100% SPD, which is obviously huge. I spent all of her level-up bonuses on her ATK and that might have been a mistake, she was great at clearing floor trash, but I rarely used her as a damage dealer in bossfights.
Remilia became the MVP of my party. Her base stats are high and if you make her a monk she can have both Majesty and Body Revitalization. If you have both of those skills on her and a strategist in your party (why wouldn't you have one?) to make buffs detoriate slower she can cast one Curse of Vlad Tepes at the start of a fight and then automatically stay at +71% on all stats for the rest of the fight. I thought this was absolutely broken. The monk subclass also gives her a defense-piercing spell and she really needs that in my opinion. Spear is a good spell that deals decent damage on a low delay (and she's fast), but very high DEF enemies (like the final boss) barely take damage from spear. She's also a bit more useful on trash than she was in LoT1 because she never reaches the point when her spear doesn't oneshot enemies anymore in LoT2, at least she didn't do it in my playthrough. Since she's so fast she can often outspeed even the faster random enemies and snipe them before they get their turn. I spent all of her level-up bonuses on ATK.
Utsuho was kinda there but didn't stand out much for me. Giga Flare doesn't cost a fuckton of SP anymore like it did in the first game, so she can be a reliable source of defense-ignoring MYS damage and I guess her FIR spells aren't too bad, but I didn't use her too much in the later parts of the game. Of course the level-up bonuses all went into her MAG.
Satori was my main weapon against Floor Trash for most of the game and she was almost too good at it. I focused her level ups entirely on MAG and had her in a party with Komachi. Copying Narrow Confined of Avici is ridiculous. The spell is apparently MAG based and seems to have a great formula, Komachi just doesn't deal damage with it because her MAG is low. Satori copying that spell would oneshot basically everything that doesn't resist SPI and if something survived it would get a ton of debuffs from the spell. Her strong point is definitely her versatility. If I wasn't sure whether to buff defense or heal with Reimu I would just buff defense and let Satori use Exorcising Border, she'd heal more with it than Reimu would anyway due to her higher MAG. She is a bit clunky to use in bossfights because she won't be able to deal damage at all if there isn't another character with strong spells she can copy in the active party. As I said, Komachi works well as a tank with her, because she will always have a reliable damage source availably in Narrow Confines if she's on MAG and if she's on ATK then Scythe that Chooses the Dead will probably do good damage instead.
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Hina is simply the best debuffer you can have as long as you can deal with debuffs on your own team. Her Misfortune Reversal shenanigans was kind of handy against 9F!Tenshi, although I never really used it much otherwise; just straight up Biorhythm debuffing was good enough.
Eirin's elements are kind of handy on some parts of the game, and if you reset her levelups to MAG she can do a decent job clearing things. Combining her overheal with the Healer Subclass's heal is a great way to give a buffer to characters with lower HP; you can often overheal them to twice or thrice of their maximum HP.
Sanae's buff isn't really rendered useless by Byakuren, but rather they work well together, since Sanae can help get Byakuren's buffs to max. If you're not going to be using Byakuren then she's probably even more helpful to buff attackers, since the skill system in this game seem to favor bulky attackers more so the defense/speed buffs can be more helpful.
Iku... I think I used her for 9F Tenshi and basically that was it. Sickleback is still there but she pretty much gained nothing from the transit between 1 to 2.
Sakuya I actually used her as an attacker a lot. With Byakuren and Tactician getting buffs and having it stick is much easier, Dark is an awesome element for boss killing, and Extra Attack helps a lot too. Also she both has an 100% accurate attack and Piercing Attack, which might count for something I guess.
Suwako is a good floor clearer with good elements on her multi-target spells. I don't really remember using her a lot for bosses since I don't think there were a lot of NTR weak bosses late game.
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Youmu...is not as quite as great in LoT1. For some reason, her damage output doesn't seem to make anything productive at all in boss fights. I only use Youmu for tanking and gaining buffs every turn.
Yuugi, on the other hand, is great. She can boost her already-awesome attack power even more through lots of her skills. Her good HP and DEF also helps her survive stray shots. (Unlike Youmu whose DEF is only slightly above average thus relying on gaining buffs every turn.)
Meiling: Her defensive stats and healing barely do anything during the early game but once you get around the fire-stratum, she will become as tanky as in LoT1 and even better tanking and healing at around postgame.
Iku: I made her into a powerful Mind-ignoring "Attack" mage through subclassing her to be a Sorcerer and gives her Enhanced Normal Attack, Haguromo Like Sky, Heavenly Maiden's Blow skill and Mind Debuff on enemies.The result? She can hit as hard almost as Yuugi if built correctly. Her Whiskers of The Dragon spell can be used on herself for a potent self-buff if you invest in her Flexibility skill. Her Thundercloud Stickleback is quite underwhelming in this game. It buffs only around 57% so I rarely use that.
Yuuka: She is generally good for staying in and attacking because of her low-delay Flower Shot combined with her Majesty, Encounter with a Strong Foe and Extra Attack skill and that's pretty much it. I don't really use her other two multi-target attacks.
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Okay, thanks. I'll probably roll with Yukari as main tank. Lack of multi target heals might be a thing, tho.
Hm... Considering damage types. Have pretty much all elements covered. Plus Satori, which is a plus. Kinda concerned about 9F Tenshi (again) and Shub Niggurath (again), but i'll see how it goes.
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Okay, thanks. I'll probably roll with Yukari as main tank. Lack of multi target heals might be a thing, tho.
Hm... Considering damage types. Have pretty much all elements covered. Plus Satori, which is a plus. Kinda concerned about 9F Tenshi (again) and Shub Niggurath (again), but i'll see how it goes.
Keep in mind that I didn't try tanking with her in the early parts of the game and a lot of her tankability comes from her border skills. Those cost 12 and 24 skillpoints if I remember correctly, so she might not perform as well when tanking at a low level.
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Found myself today with the urge to return to this game, only to discover that for some reason it's not loading correctly. Specifically none of the image files are loading in correctly >:
I have swapped computers since the days I used to play, but even a fresh install has this issue, so >:
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Okay, thanks. I'll probably roll with Yukari as main tank. Lack of multi target heals might be a thing, tho.
Hm... Considering damage types. Have pretty much all elements covered. Plus Satori, which is a plus. Kinda concerned about 9F Tenshi (again) and Shub Niggurath (again), but i'll see how it goes.
During one of my Synergy runs, I too noticed the drawback of lacking multi target heals but thanks to subclasses, thats not too much of a problem. All you really need is a multitarget buff for your team and that can be turned into a heal with the Enchanter subclass.
Found myself today with the urge to return to this game, only to discover that for some reason it's not loading correctly. Specifically none of the image files are loading in correctly >:
I have swapped computers since the days I used to play, but even a fresh install has this issue, so >:
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What exactly do you mean by the image files not loading in correctly? I get the feeling that a not fresh install would do the trick, but I have no real basis for this hypothesis.
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Neither trying to load it off my old external drive nor a fresh install of the game is working properly. Well, it's working, but images are clearly not loading in correctly.
Point is, literally none of the image files load. The game works, but everything that should be an image file is simply nonexistant in the game itself so everything's black (or white) except for text strings which load in fine. Weirdly there are one or two images that work, but the game's basically unplayable in its state despite technically working, so I have a feeling it might be one of the image dxa not loading right or something but idk.
(See exhibit A (https://41.media.tumblr.com/b1d64f8a3c1a80351dbab66f63b495d4/tumblr_nrkuo0a98O1r8hguio1_540.png) and exhibit B (https://40.media.tumblr.com/7ae30be2100b03897b8b57b843723743/tumblr_nrkuo0a98O1r8hguio2_1280.png))
Currently now running Windows 8.1. I don't generally have issues with other JP games; I'm not having an issue with LoT1 either. Just this one ;-;
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Greetings to all. I just thought of something that I said before. Mainly about how Rinnosuke should have some better skills and whatnot...
Ability to Know the Nature of Items
Skill point cost: 20
Max level: 5
For each special item applied to Rinnosuke, apply its effect for an additional (SLv) number of times. This skill does not affect tomes.
Reason for this skill: With 20 training manuals, this skill is essentially free, and he'll need it to help power up his High Boost skills(at max level, 1 Training manual = 1 SLv in a High boost skill, which is huge), as well as gain the raw stats needed to out perform everyone else via gems. Since his gimmick(raw stat advantage) requires a massive amount of skill points in the first place, this skill would not be OP on him, really. The dream of an ultimate Rinnosuke would be much easier to achieve with this skill.
Any thoughts?
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Since his gimmick(raw stat advantage) requires a massive amount of skill points in the first place, this skill would not be OP on him, really.
I think this is where you're wrong. It sounds insanely OP to me.
Rinnosuke might need something, but definitely not that.
Also the skill you described would actually give him 6 skillpoints per manual at max level. It should go up to level 4 if you want it to be 5.
Rinnosuke being able to max out his stat boost skills should come with the plus disk, since it will probably go up to level 300+.
He's just not meant to be an attacker in this game. He's there to tank hits and support the team with buffs, heals and subclass spells. Making him just a bit more durable than he already is should go a long way in making him better.
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Um, the fact that it gives him 6 points per training manual is kind of the point of this skill, as his High Boost skills are expensive and you can only get training manuals at random from bosses, making this skill not as powerful as you may think. After all, the challenge here for him would be to gain the training manuals to help him out in the first place. I'm more or less at the end of the game, and I have close to 40 of those training manuals, and I haven't used any of them.
And the simple fact is that even with those skills maxed out, he's still not that good due to the fact that he has no attack spells of his own outside of subclasses, so the fact that gems are more potent on him than on anyone else helps him with that. And while I'm aware that he's primarily meant to tank and support, bear in mind that none of the offensive subclass spells are that strong to begin with, so there's no real harm in having him gain better stats than everyone else if he doesn't have any truly powerful spells to use them on. Raw stat power alone do not break the game, after all.
Plus, I stated before that at max level, 1 training manual equals 1 SLv in one of his High Boost skills, so you would need 5 of them to max out HP, TP, ATK, DEF, MAG, MND, SPD, EVA, ACC, Elemental Affinity, and Status Resistance, which leads to 55 Training manuals on top of the twenty that you would need to power the skill itself(the reason that I don't count MP is due to it's lower cost, so it should be covered by normal skill points), which is far more than you would expect to see in a single playthrough of the game. That means that you can't cover every High Boost with this skill, because there just aren't enough training manuals to go around to do so.
The only thing that this skill would really make him is a mid to late game bloomer, and that's only if you can get enough items to power him up in the first place. Random chance and all that rot.
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I already think Rinnosuke becomes worth using around the purple stratum, so, giving him a few hundred more skillpoints... >.>; He doesn't need to easily become one of the best tanks AND a great attacker at the same time, along with making it very easy to get every tanky-bonus High Boost even before expansion starts.
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You can't really say "raw stat power alone does not break the game" when the game is mostly a game of numbers. If you have insanely powerful stats, it doesn't matter if all you can use are the subclass skills, it's going to be going overboard. Rinnosuke is enough of a late bloomer as it is, he really doesn't need to get any sort of major boost that allows him to get better stats much earlier than intended. I mean, the developers gave him the High Boosts and made them expensive for a reason, why would they add a skill that completely breaks the intended balance of those skills?
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I already think Rinnosuke becomes worth using around the purple stratum, so, giving him a few hundred more skillpoints... >.>; He doesn't need to easily become one of the best tanks AND a great attacker at the same time, along with making it very easy to get every tanky-bonus High Boost even before expansion starts.
Allow me to say this again: this skill is dependent on special items that you get from bosses. The most that you'll likely get from this skill without grinding on the final boss for days on end is somewhere between 60 (for 10 training manuals) to 120(for 20 training manuals), meaning that he would need to be over level 200 to have the points needed to max out everything, and that's presuming that you're lucky enough to already have that in addition to the 20 training manuals needed to make this skill free.
Also, while he's normally not meant to be anything more than a tank for the most part, bear in mind that most of the Boost skills aim for stats that are defensive in some way. Only ATK and MAG help on offense directly, and Rinnosuke could just as easily use that for healing. Besides, if you're using level 200 characters, you're effectively overleveled for the current post-game content anyway, so a level 200 Rinnosuke is a "ready for plus disk" character in the first place. I know that you guys say that he shouldn't be able to do so until he's well into the plus disk content, but still...
You can't really say "raw stat power alone does not break the game" when the game is mostly a game of numbers. If you have insanely powerful stats, it doesn't matter if all you can use are the subclass skills, it's going to be going overboard. Rinnosuke is enough of a late bloomer as it is, he really doesn't need to get any sort of major boost that allows him to get better stats much earlier than intended. I mean, the developers gave him the High Boosts and made them expensive for a reason, why would they add a skill that completely breaks the intended balance of those skills?
Given that most of those stats do not aid in offensive power, it's not as bad as you're implying. At best, Rinnosuke will likely become one of the best tanks that you'll have, but given that enemies and bosses are stupid hard in post-game, and the plus disk is stated to become even more challenging than that...
Honestly, having Rinnosuke at full power at the start of the expansion would likely not be a game breaker at all. And as I said, if you're using characters that have hit level 200 already, then you're overleveled for the post-game content, so a level 200 Rinnosuke is effectively a "plus disk" character already.
Besides, the thing that would likely break the game from this skill are the gems, not the training manuals, if what you say is true, since applying two gems on Rinnosuke would equal twelve gems on anyone else, which is two more than they're allowed to have. So, if anything, the only part of the skill that I would remove for the sake of avoiding any issues of being OP is the part where it affects the gems.
The real question is whether Rinnosuke with all his High Boosts fully active would make any of the cast obsolete, and I would imagine that the answer is no, because of their spells and skills making them better than he'll ever be offensively.
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Rinnosuke should be able to change back to a MANnosuke sub-class once you get the ame no murakumo drop
Just equip it to him and voila he suddenly got a second subclass and More Or different spellcards from LoT 1
Like those games that rewards you a very powerfull item from defeating the final bonus boss, dude you already beated the final boss so why give me something so broken?
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The deal breaker is that things like those attack or defense-increasing gems from locked chests would also have their effect aplied 6 times. If the limit for those items would still be 10 for him that means he could get 60 boosts which is absolutely ridiculous.
His stats would be way higher than those of the other characters and since buffs in this game are percent-based it would get even more ridiculous after buffs. With the skill you described it would reach the point where subclass spells are major nukes with low delay on Rinnosuke and he'd also be the best tank in the game at the same time.
If the point of your idea was to make the high boost skills more achievable then the obvious idea would be to simply make the high boost skills cheaper to learn.
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to have the points needed to max out everything
see this is kind of where the problem is
You're looking at this from the viewpoint that Rinnosuke needs to be able to max out most of his stuff to be worth using. You also assume someone will have 10~20 training manuals. I just opened my save and Rinno has 40 on, and I didn't do -any- extraneous grinding in the game. Maybe they'd have 20 late in the main game? A point where it's still going to be an obscenely large explosion of skill points that makes Rinnosuke ridiculously good, when he already would have been good enough to be worth using without them.
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Any news on the Disk?? I've been waiting for a looong while... I would like some news...
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I've heard that it'll be be released in August, during Comiket.
Edit: Oh cool, someone changed my Avi.
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For reference, Rinnosuke needs to be level 283 to max out all of his default skills without training manuals.
The most that you'll likely get from this skill without grinding on the final boss for days on end is somewhere between 60 (for 10 training manuals) to 120(for 20 training manuals), meaning that he would need to be over level 200 to have the points needed to max out everything, and that's presuming that you're lucky enough to already have that in addition to the 20 training manuals needed to make this skill free.
Why do you keep making that point? Why does the skill have to be "free"? Why would you waste training manuals like that when you have normal level up skill points (and when training manuals get more benefits when you use them later)? The first thing I would do if I was planning on using Rinnosuke from the beginning is use the skill points I get from level ups up until level 18 (because you start out with 3 skill points at level 1) to max your supposed skill and then just throw every training manual at him.
I don't really think Rinnosuke needs a buff at all as he is plenty usable already. If anything, a simple reduction in cost to his 6 point high boost skills is all he would need. Reducing them to 5 points per level up would reduce his level requirement to max every default skill out by 25 levels. Reducing it to 4 points for the 6 point high boost skills makes his level requirement go down to 233, which is much more reasonable than your skill.
Also, I have 51 training manuals and I haven't used a single one. Excluding final boss grinding, I'd estimate I'd have 35-40 training manuals. I won't ever be using them, but I think that's more than enough manuals for people who have already decided their end game team.
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I've heard that it'll be be released in August, during Comiket.
Okay! I'll be expecting a lot from it (and Nue plz)!
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I've heard that it'll be be released in August, during Comiket.
That'd be the logical time to release it, but c88 is less than a month away and afaik it still hasn't been announced, I don't see anything about it on his twitter at least.
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Are there any characters confirmed besides Futo and Shou? Really hoping for Koishi <3
Her hat is her friend, it helps her relax <3<3<3<3<3 I wonder, if Koishi's in the game, will Satori be able to use her spellcards?
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I heard Koishi was confirmed from a screenshot or something like that. That was quite awhile ago though, not 100% sure if I remember correctly.
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I think mamizao was also confirmed. Along with miko.
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On the case Mamizou and Miko are confirmed. From floor events Kokoro and Koishi are confirmed.
and futo and shou from the website
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So... that leaves what? Four new characters? Anyone have any hopes for who they may be?
I am personally hoping Minamitsu Murasa, Seiga Kaku, Tewi Inaba, and Kyouko Kasodani.
But... if they go into Double dealing character then definitely Wakasagihime, and Raiko Horikawa.
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ShameimaruShinmyoumaru might be included, since she was recently included in the fighting game... maybe she might have a Missing Power kind of move that can be used on allies? Lowers evade, too... :V Hated that spellcard...
2 new characters btw. Shou, Futo, Miko, Mamizou, Koishi, and Kokoro are confirmed, I guess?
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Honestly, I'm hoping for 12 total new characters myself. It'd all add up since we'd get a total of 60 like how LoT1 ended up with a total of 40 (and 56 is a weird number, imo). But yeah, that's the 6 we know of so far.
Unfortunately I dunno if it'll actually be at C88, we might get yet another delay.
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I'm having trouble deciding who to spend Library points on, since their the only things that need Tomes of Reincarnation (are there any way to get more of them). This ties into my troubles with the my endgame party.
Reimu (Healer), Sanae (Herbalist), Byakuren (Strategist), Wriggle (Toxicologist), Flandre (Monk) and Kasen (Warrior) are characters I'm really happy with.
Yukari (Magician), Aya (Diva) and Komachi (Guardian) are working out, but I don't know if I could do better.
Nitori (Transecendent) is great, but I'm wondering if there's a better subclass.
The other two are Marisa (Gambler) and Alice (Sorceror), because Malice Cannon doesn't require them to next to each other... but I wonder if they're better Magic attackers than them. I want to try Kaguya/Patchouli, but I have only 4 tomes of reincarnation left and don't want to mess it up.
Advice would be appreciated.
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You can always keep a backup save since there's many slots, test it out, and if the numbers aren't what you hoped for, switch to someone else again.
Transcendent is the definitive class for Nitori due to her low base stats and having high damage+high defense to make use of it's other passive. Her base stats are very meh but work anyway due to extreme maintenance tweaking, so the "___ Boost" passives and the Transcendant bonuses are VERY powerful to her. The sheer stat increase is rarely contested by other class bonuses, basically only when you could -really- use a different attack element for some boss or the Monk's def piercing one.
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Maybe I'm missing something obvious but how do you even get started on beating the Knowledge's Shadow.
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I'm having trouble deciding who to spend Library points on, since their the only things that need Tomes of Reincarnation (are there any way to get more of them). This ties into my troubles with the my endgame party.
Reimu (Healer), Sanae (Herbalist), Byakuren (Strategist), Wriggle (Toxicologist), Flandre (Monk) and Kasen (Warrior) are characters I'm really happy with.
Yukari (Magician), Aya (Diva) and Komachi (Guardian) are working out, but I don't know if I could do better.
Nitori (Transecendent) is great, but I'm wondering if there's a better subclass.
The other two are Marisa (Gambler) and Alice (Sorceror), because Malice Cannon doesn't require them to next to each other... but I wonder if they're better Magic attackers than them. I want to try Kaguya/Patchouli, but I have only 4 tomes of reincarnation left and don't want to mess it up.
Advice would be appreciated.
I feel like you're grossly misunderstanding how the skill reset function works in the library. You can ALWAYS reset your skill points and sub classes for free. The only thing Tomes of Reincarnation do is refund any gems, Tomes (the ones that unlock additional boost skills) and Training Manuals you may have used on a character.
I somehow misread library points. Yeah the Money spent on those are gone unless you use Tomes of Reincarnation, but farming more money is so easy that it should be a non factor in considering when to use them. That said, my struck through text is still true with the addition of refunding Money spent on library points. If you're worried about overleveling, don't be. The level down feature exists for a reason.
Just hit the skill reset button and select no on the use Tome of Reincarnation confirmation.
Maybe I'm missing something obvious but how do you even get started on beating the Knowledge's Shadow.
You're not missing anything obvious. Knowledge's Shadow gains additional weaknesses in (filler text) Silence and Shock (filler text)
that weren't present in the first version. All I can say without outright giving the answer is try to look for ways to mitigate damage. Having better defensive stats isn't the only way to mitigate damage.
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For reference, Rinnosuke needs to be level 283 to max out all of his default skills without training manuals.Why do you keep making that point? Why does the skill have to be "free"? Why would you waste training manuals like that when you have normal level up skill points (and when training manuals get more benefits when you use them later)? The first thing I would do if I was planning on using Rinnosuke from the beginning is use the skill points I get from level ups up until level 18 (because you start out with 3 skill points at level 1) to max your supposed skill and then just throw every training manual at him.
I don't really think Rinnosuke needs a buff at all as he is plenty usable already. If anything, a simple reduction in cost to his 6 point high boost skills is all he would need. Reducing them to 5 points per level up would reduce his level requirement to max every default skill out by 25 levels. Reducing it to 4 points for the 6 point high boost skills makes his level requirement go down to 233, which is much more reasonable than your skill.
Also, I have 51 training manuals and I haven't used a single one. Excluding final boss grinding, I'd estimate I'd have 35-40 training manuals. I won't ever be using them, but I think that's more than enough manuals for people who have already decided their end game team.
You do realize that that skill effectively requires 20 x 5, or rather, 100 skill points to max out by itself, right? And the fact that one would have around 30 to 40 training manuals by endgame is the point I'm making here, along with the fact that I'm pointing out that if you're using a guy like him, then there wouldn't be a reason to not give him the tomes that give him the other High Boost skills, and that's the real reason for this skill: to allow him to max out his High Boost abilities, including the ones that you get from tomes(meaning that you'll need 330 skill points to turn them all on), by end game / post game, since while he'll be a good tank for most of the time, the sheer power from all the High Boosts being active should be plenty for him to work with by the start of plus disk, unless you're saying that he really shouldn't have all of that by then.
But since everyone is objecting to Rinnosuke having all of his High Boosts, including the ones from the Tomes, all active to him, I'll just drop it, okay? I really don't like having issues from something like this.
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You do realize that that skill effectively requires 20 x 5, or rather, 100 skill points to max out by itself, right?
I completely misread the skill so my level 18 comment was incorrect. But that's all I'll say about the topic anymore
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Wait, is there coming a special disc for LoT 2? Cause that's pretty awesome (some of you wrote that Miko was coming, which just makes me really hype)
Gamewise, i'm stuck on floor 7/8 in LoT 2, mostly because i can't beat the bosses... (i'm also new here, so i don't know how this site works all that well)
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Plus-disk, yes. We don't know when. Given that there still haven't been any announcements on his blog since June of last year, I highly doubt it'll be released this coming comiket.
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Well, he doesn't really seem to care much for his blog, at present. Remember that trial thing on May? Apparently it existed, but he posted news about it on Twitter, not his blog. I mean, Twitter might have probably been a better place in this case, but still.
I can't really say I think he'll release it this Comiket though.
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I've checked on the Comiket website, and it looks like the circle wasn't registered for the 88. So I guess we'll have to keep waiting and hoping
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So, has anybody found the "hidden" boss of LoT2 (Not the one in LoT1)? Because from what I remember from the thread the Soundtracks had been posted, an extra theme for a hidden boss was there. Or was that not put in the game yet?
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If you mean the Extra boss theme? Pretty sure that's just not been used anywhere yet. Who knows, maybe it'll be a boss theme in Plus Disk.
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Someone on the Japanese discussion thread took a few screencaps from the Plus Disc trial. (http://i.imgur.com/YtEenTx.jpg)
Notably, we have an actual picture of Koishi in the game! As well as an enemy, a picture of Mamizou, and what I'm betting is a Mamizou event.
Also, it's hard to make out, but it seems to me like the floor all these are on is "B1F". Perhaps that's how they're handling Plus Disc floors - rather than climb even higher (due to reaching the heavens in maingame), Reimu and co are going down into the earth?
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So, has anybody found the "hidden" boss of LoT2 (Not the one in LoT1)? Because from what I remember from the thread the Soundtracks had been posted, an extra theme for a hidden boss was there. Or was that not put in the game yet?
If you mean the Extra boss theme? Pretty sure that's just not been used anywhere yet. Who knows, maybe it'll be a boss theme in Plus Disk.
Not to mention that there's a boss theme that's in the game that's not in the Soundtracks, unless I'm mistaken... (The boss music that plays when you fight the Cookie monster, Culex, and those other extra bosses, I mean...)
Someone on the Japanese discussion thread took a few screencaps from the Plus Disc trial. (http://i.imgur.com/YtEenTx.jpg)
Notably, we have an actual picture of Koishi in the game! As well as an enemy, a picture of Mamizou, and what I'm betting is a Mamizou event.
Also, it's hard to make out, but it seems to me like the floor all these are on is "B1F". Perhaps that's how they're handling Plus Disc floors - rather than climb even higher (due to reaching the heavens in maingame), Reimu and co are going down into the earth?
I'm looking at the pics and I'll presume that the pic with the two Kasens is said event. Also, nice Koishi and the pic that says B1F seems to be an event having to do with Alice. Curious.
As for the bestiary pic... Oh dear gods, tell me that's an FOE and not a regular random enemy entry. 1.7 million HP... *shivers*
Between the bestiary pic and the Alice event pic, maybe it's a path downwards into Makai?
Shinki confirmed as boss for Plus Disk! :P
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The pic with Alice in it depicts the party picking up the key item "Kokoro's mask - sadness"
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On a totally unrelated note... has the lot1 charagraph featuring lot2 chars been completed ? Didn't find it in any of the image packs.
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The pic with Alice in it depicts the party picking up the key item "Kokoro's mask - sadness"
Huh. Well, people did say that Kokoro would be playable, and this would signify proof of that statement.
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But muh Sumireko
Anyway, what pics? You said there were pics!?
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welp i was hoping that the extra floors would be above the heavens, you know, gensokyo dragon being the final extra boss and stuff? but i guess going underground, to the root of the problem (No pun intended) will work too
Only 1.7M? my flandre is ready
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On a totally unrelated note... has the lot1 charagraph featuring lot2 chars been completed ? Didn't find it in any of the image packs.
This has been linked several times already but here (https://mega.co.nz/#!WlAWwT6T!jDX21K2e2DOLucu8_SYhFWhGHRqCdRZJOl37ScDidi0) it is again.But muh Sumireko
Anyway, what pics? You said there were pics!?
Komeiguy hyperlinked it... Just click on the sentence.
Someone on the Japanese discussion thread took a few screencaps from the Plus Disc trial. (http://i.imgur.com/YtEenTx.jpg)
Notably, we have an actual picture of Koishi in the game! As well as an enemy, a picture of Mamizou, and what I'm betting is a Mamizou event.
Also, it's hard to make out, but it seems to me like the floor all these are on is "B1F". Perhaps that's how they're handling Plus Disc floors - rather than climb even higher (due to reaching the heavens in maingame), Reimu and co are going down into the earth?
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GOD. DAMN. FINALLY.
I have cleared all LoT1!
I almost lost by a very close margin.
Cheers! Now what I should do... Start a New Game+, or continue LoT2, or play other games... hmmmm...
End Game Party:
Meiling Lv 597
Yukari Lv 547
Ran Lv 556
Reimu Lv 605
Eiki Lv 559
Remilia Lv 551
Nitori Lv 609
Minoriko Lv 608
Youmu Lv 572
Wriggle Lv 594
Chen Lv 658
Rinnosuke Lv 545
How it goes down:
For the most part, it's just trying to get free turns against WINNER by waiting for his longest delay spells. Then everything starts going smoothly until he decides to use the more dangerous moves and take down one or two people. The dreaded attack from him are the defense ignoring ones, especially Sword of Light. This attack is BS just because I didn't know who will it hit, as the attack animation targets elsewhere. In the beginning he decided to use up all his healing spells, making the last part a bit easier. But no, the last part was manageable until my party is dwindled one on one. I struggled to keep my attackers alive and well, but RNGod strikes again and decides to kill my attackers, until Youmu is left. But for frickin finally, Youmu is the last one standing and landed the killing blow. Yay me!
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I have cleared all LoT1!
Congrats! That's no small feat. When I finished, I felt a bit lost. Like, wow, this game can actually END?? So, in my confusion, I decided to farm some Machine God Lucifers for a while, until I finally gave up and called it good. For now.
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While browsing through the net i found this picture, it has a UNCANNY resemblance to the serpent of chaos from LoT 1, unless its the same thing....
(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/narutofanon/images/3/3a/Asu_true_form.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130911041958)
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I almost finished the main playthrough just 4 floors more.
Now, can someone explain me a bit about the subclasses?
I know that the Monk class gives you skill that ignores DEF and MND.
But how the other subclasses works, that's my only problem.
Because i haven't use any stone of awakening i have found.
And lastly im only missing Eiki.
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While browsing through the net i found this picture, it has a UNCANNY resemblance to the serpent of chaos from LoT 1, unless its the same thing....
(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/narutofanon/images/3/3a/Asu_true_form.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130911041958)
Well, the serpent of chaos is from Angband, so he looks something like this: J.
It's possible 3peso's art for the serpent is based off that, though. I've never played angband for more than 10 minutes, but even if there's a graphics pack it wouldn't be in-depth enough to serve as a basis for something like lot.
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Someone on the Japanese discussion thread took a few screencaps from the Plus Disc trial. (http://i.imgur.com/YtEenTx.jpg)
Notably, we have an actual picture of Koishi in the game! As well as an enemy, a picture of Mamizou, and what I'm betting is a Mamizou event.
Koishi looks adorable (as always) and Mamizou looks a bit weird, oh well, i guess it's just the way she is stading :3
And if Miko is coming (Mamizou is, so i guess the taoists are too), I'm pretty sure her event is going to involve Byakuren, but that's just a guess
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Hatate ploz, ploooozzzz
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Only 1.7M? my flandre is ready
Said enemy resists Dark, friend, so you can't expect Flan to break it with Starbow Break.
Hatate ploz, ploooozzzz
If she somehow does appear, it'll likely be an Aya triggered event, and maybe even a boss fight against Hatate? That would be interesting.
Koishi looks adorable (as always) and Mamizou looks a bit weird, oh well, i guess it's just the way she is stading :3
And if Miko is coming (Mamizou is, so i guess the taoists are too), I'm pretty sure her event is going to involve Byakuren, but that's just a guess
Futo and Shou are already confirmed, so Miko is all but a given here.
And am I the only one who wants a playable Akyuu in this game? Akyuu is the only NPC in the entire game, so making her playable would be interesting.
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Shou, Futo, Miko, Mamizou, Koishi, and Kokoro have been confirmed.
I want Hatate too ;-;
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Shou, Futo, Miko, Mamizou, Koishi, and Kokoro have been confirmed.
I want Hatate too ;-;
Yay! :3
And yeah, Hatate would be awesome to have too
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A playable Akyu... That sounds kinda interesting. I wonder what her stats and growth would be. Spellcards i could see being time related, or at least history related. Probably gimmicky. But at the same time, it's seems like a constant, Akyu always being your progress recorder.
Hatate battle? I shudder at the thought of her speed. She'd probably loose 2 spells before anyone gets a shot in. And she would speed up as time passes.
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No Nue lovers?
No?
Oh okay...
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Yes, no Nue lovers.
Most of my favorite characters are already in this game or will be in this game (Kaguya, Meiling, Eiki, Eirin, Hina, Shou, Koishi) among other characters... It would be nice a PC-98 dropped in. Like I dunno Yumemi. Yes, Yumemi, just Yumemi. Science.
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No Nue lovers?
No?
Oh okay...
I-I love Nue. ;~;
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Said enemy resists Dark, friend, so you can't expect Flan to break it with Starbow Break.
If she somehow does appear, it'll likely be an Aya triggered event, and maybe even a boss fight against Hatate? That would be interesting.
Futo and Shou are already confirmed, so Miko is all but a given here.
And am I the only one who wants a playable Akyuu in this game? Akyuu is the only NPC in the entire game, so making her playable would be interesting.
I was having leavetin in mind if its a random encounter....Otherwise i think Remilia+Flandre can kill it in two moves or less, we will see
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Yes, no Nue lovers.
Most of my favorite characters are already in this game or will be in this game (Kaguya, Meiling, Eiki, Eirin, Hina, Shou, Koishi) among other characters... It would be nice a PC-98 dropped in. Like I dunno Yumemi. Yes, Yumemi, just Yumemi. Science.
I think the PC-98 character that has the biggest chance of coming is Mima, but other characters would also be really nice to see (Elly and Shinki maybe)
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Said enemy resists Dark, friend, so you can't expect Flan to break it with Starbow Break.
It's extremely weak against Fire... Laevateinn go!!
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I think the PC-98 character that has the biggest chance of coming is Mima, but other characters would also be really nice to see (Elly and Shinki maybe)
I find that despite mima having the most vocal fanbase amonst the pc98 girls, shinki always seems to be the one that the game devs favor.
My personal fave is one completely forgotten by everyone. pajama-mode yuuka ='(.. everyone puts her in that plaid outfit, whyyy. qq.
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I find that despite mima having the most vocal fanbase amonst the pc98 girls, shinki always seems to be the one that the game devs favor.
My personal fave is one completely forgotten by everyone. pajama-mode yuuka ='(.. everyone puts her in that plaid outfit, whyyy. qq.
Well, the more the merrier! :toot:
Pajama-mode Yuuka would also be really awesome, i understand why she is your fave :3
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My personal fave is one completely forgotten by everyone. pajama-mode yuuka ='(.. everyone puts her in that plaid outfit, whyyy. qq.
If that's the case, why not make an item that gives Yuuka that look as an alternate costume? Of course, given the nature of the game and its cut scenes, it would be kind of hard to imagine how a cutscene with obtaining said clothes would go...
I find that despite mima having the most vocal fanbase amonst the pc98 girls, shinki always seems to be the one that the game devs favor.
Shinki makes for very good boss material, whether it's a final boss, a bonus boss, or whatever. I think that it's easier in terms of imagination for them to think of attacks for a creation goddess is all.
I think the PC-98 character that has the biggest chance of coming is Mima, but other characters would also be really nice to see (Elly and Shinki maybe)
Mima is kind of more in line as boss/player character material and only if they bother to put her in. Some games have done so, like Devil of Decline, but still...
Elly, on the other hand, would fit in due to Yuuka, so that'll work out. Working out a moveset for her would be the only issue, but if they can invent one for Kasen(Lot2 predates ULiL), then they can certainly make one for Elly.
You know who I would be surprised to see, but would not question the appearance of?
Ruukoto
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So anyone on windows 10 having this issue where the font completely disappears but before you say go to japanese locale this is what i get on japanese locale. I really don't know what is causing this and my only assumption is somehow windows 10 decides to screw up my fonts for this game when i am in japanese locale and cause this little problem so all in all I just wonder if anyone knows a fix.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45476381/Screenshot%202015-08-14%2014.08.29.png)
Also when I play in English locale this is what happens so I am very curious of what is going on here.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45476381/Screenshot%202015-08-14%2012.28.40.png)
Edit: I fixed the problem its good i just had to do alittle hunting for fonts to solve my problem...
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Mima being the most likely is simply an illusion created by the very vocal minority that is Mima fans. (And it's very annoying and I dislike Mima fans as a result) I agree that Shinki is definitely more likely, she's the goddess and creator of Makai, an easy to insert AND remotely interesting plot point and easy to work with. But there's another character that can be worked with just as easily, if not better than Shinki, and that's Yumemi. Probability Hyperspace Vessel? Science? Researching magic and doing some kind of weird experiement that's probably really dangerous? That's as flexible as Shinki honestly.
At least where I've been, it always feels like Yumemi is underlyingly more popular than Mima and Shinki, it's just the Mima fans are loud and annoying, and Shinki fans talk a bit more. Yumemi fans seem to be more quiet, or at least the people that actually like Yumemi have her in like Top 10/20 or simply don't know her at all. Meanwhile, Mima and Shinki fans have a much wider margin of error, with Mima fans having the largest margin of "either you like her or you don't". No Mima in Top 50/60, it's Mima in Top 10, or Mima in neverland. I wish there was some kind of way to have a statistic of that...
Also in the past Touhou Popular Polls Yumemi has been more popular than Mima and Shinki. Yeah, it's the most accurate poll in the Touhou community. Yes, it doesn't survey every Touhou fan in existence, but what poll does honestly? People seem to always wanna argue the polls credibility just because 'hurr hurr not every 2hu fan did it hurr hurr'.
Sorry, kinda went a tangent huh?
@Kirin no Sora
If you say Ruukoto, you might as well add in Yumemi as well. (and Mimi-chan)
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I Personally don't really like or dislike mima, but I do like how her super ultimate mega max power attack is a master...BODYCHECK. I mean how cool is that.
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What have i started...
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You started the PC-98 debate, and I think they won't have a chance in this game. I do want Mima and Shinki tho.
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You started the PC-98 debate, and I think they won't have a chance in this game. I do want Mima and Shinki tho.
And i kinda regret it... *sigh* Well, done is done, so it can't be changed :ohdear:
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Any news on plus disc on C88?
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Any news on plus disc on C88?
I thought it was confirmed that they weren't even registered.
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I missed that then. Oh well.
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And i kinda regret it... *sigh* Well, done is done, so it can't be changed :ohdear:
Regret nothing. We're obviously gonna get Orange in this game anyway.
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Regret nothing. We're obviously gonna get Orange in this game anyway.
And Genji, he's a very important character!
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(http://i.imgur.com/BVGSf27.png)
Can someone please tell me how to beat this thing? o-O?
I have tried using Kaguya with her ability that ignores DEF and MND. But it's no use, i have try using Flandre with her Laevaeteinn and still no work.
Also is there a level limit for your characters to keep leveling up?
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Oh...that's freaking nuts. (pun not intended) :derp:
It has only 20,000 HP but has 1 million base DEF and MND so it is practically immune to non-piercing attacks. Eiki or Rumia can destroy it with ease. If you are using Kaguya or Utsuho, note that both characters don't ignore Mind completely in this game. Debuff its Mind to -50%, buff Kaguya/Utsuho's MAG to 100% then blast it. That might do some damage.
For your other question, I don't think there is any limit. You can level up as much as want. My characters is around 260 and they can still keep levelling up.
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From my experience with an SDM run, Sakuya could also deal with them too with Piercing Attack and her Dark/Wind spells (she wasn't focused in attack either)
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Thanks! i forgot that i managed to get Eiki :V and so then i used her along with Satori and both deal 30k damage to the Emerald Nuts.
So i think i saved myself from losing to some nuts.
And now that i can level to the infinite i will keep leveling up~!
Thanks for the help!~
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Indeed, the only limit I'm aware of would be the one that existed in LoT1, where any value exceeding the signed 32-bit limit (2^31 - 1) would overflow. I did a bit of math on it a long time ago, and I can't remember exactly, but I think you'd have to be level ~12000 to cause "xp to next level" to overflow, depending on the character. So, no limit anybody is likely to hit.
Now that I think of it, I recall there was an overflow error in LoT2 when trying to set a character's level. If they were above level ~900 and you tried to delevel them back to 1, the cumulative experience it shows would overflow similarly. They fixed it though - I wonder how? Maybe LoT2 no longer suffers from the 32-bit limit.
Anyway, huge nerd rambling, sorry. Back to work.
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I need help :ohdear: now i only need to beat 2 of the 4 bosses. The Second Sun and The Great "C" are already done for.
But i need at least to find 3 items. I have 113 items of 120 items. The boss on 14F extra requires 116 items.
So can you tell me where to obtain the missing items?
(http://i.imgur.com/fAPm4vn.png)
And the other thing how can i access to the rest of the 16F(not extra) where the foe is?
(http://i.imgur.com/bnMCWTI.png)
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The 16F floor area is reached by heading to 15F's northwest corner, dropping down a hole, and climbing up a couple levels.
I don't remember where two of the items you're missing are (I belieeeeve they're on 16F Extra/the part of 8F Extra that you need Renko and Merry for), but I can confirm the Zeus Armor is gotten by crafting the Dragon Mane. That's a drop from the Dragon Larva on 16F Extra, so again you need to get through the Deformed Bosses and get the last two characters.
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Hi guys I'm new here and I'm in need of a little help.
Not so long ago i decided to pick up this game, have not played anything like this before but so far it's really, really fun.I know I'm a little late on this, but I tried to look up some guide on the game with no succes, the closest thing to a guide I found was the wiki page.
And I admit I'm horrible at this game,so bad, I managed to get stuck so early.Sometimes I just make dumb decisions and don't even realize it.
And while the wiki page is really useful for things like boss affinities, gameplay elements and such, it still leaves me with some questions.
Like it tells you the general idea behind a character, but doesn't go into details.
The boss I'm stuck on is Iku Nagae on 8F, though I had a feeling before that my performance was not so good on 7F , because I absolutely could not defeat Alice who according to the wiki is not a big deal.Though I managed to get lucky after 10 retries or so , because she was missing left and right, and didn't even summon magic dolls that much.
So my question would be that how do you build up a character properly? I know that are a lot of choices.Do you focus on 1 stat or spread them out?
I actually just focused on 1 stat on each girl and that seemed to be working, up until this point.
I don't really understand the math behind the magic library but i guess the level up bonuses have bigger impact on your character?
What about those points?
Also what is considered a "good" equipment? With this, i just go with numbers, basically i equipped my girl with high ATK bonuses and she was killing stuff pretty quickly.
Though bosses, and especially FOEs' in general, seem to just full wipe my party with 1 attack/spell, and if i put on some resist gear then I don't do enough damage, the fight drags out and I eventually lose my party.How much do you guys value resistance gear?
Right now my frontline tank is Momiji, I spent all the bonuses on DEF, and used money to buff up some other stats, mainly DEF, with the exception of MAG.
She can take a bunch of hits, though other than that.. I just use her to swap in/out my other characters.
Also I seem to have messed up some stats because, for example,I invested a fair amount of money into Utsuho, raised her MAG stat really high, yet I can't seem to do enough damage with her and she dies really quickly.Obviously I'm not attacking things resistant to fire haha.
I also came to the conclusion, that the way i have played so far, made it so that some characters are just better than others.
For example Minoriko, a character who I did not invest that much money into, works really well.Despite the fact that she supposed to be a supportive character, she somehow does really good damage, is really resistant to spells because MND was the only thing I put points into. Obviously her damage isn't as high as Kaguya's(another girl i invested a lot ofmoney into, she ate most of my gems too), but i could sweep decently. I was thinking that I should stop being dumb about stats, when I was fighting the magic stone of Knowledge or something (the purple one, Patchouli quest), the thing wiped my enitre party (11 people) except for Minoriko. And then because of how resistant Minoriko is, I couldn't end the battle, because it did no damage to me, and i did no damage to the stone I literally had to quit the game.
Komachi though works fine, gave her ATK when lvl-ing up, and put money into ATK and HP and she pretty much reks everyone.Though still thinking about what equipment i should give her.
Also there are a bunch of other characters who just don't work well, my guess would be that they require some kind of gimmick I'm not aware of, thus I'm bad. I left those girls in village.Hina, Aya, Satori, Chen, just to name some. And Rinnosuke, he's probably the last character i would take with me for some fights, because tbh, I don't see how he is any useful.
So what do you guys think? Do you focus on getting 1 or 2 characters strong or give everyone some love?
Also what kind of strategy do you use against bosses? Encounters not much of a problem of course ,(though they are getting stronger I can tell) , but I can't seem to understand the idea behind proper form change , and speed.I kind of get what speed is for, but I did not need to rely on it until now.
And ailments. I pretty much focused getting the actual damage higher, not really caring about ailments, should I?
I was under the impression that i shouldn't really grind because Iku lvl requirement is lv29 and my characters are pretty much overleveled at this point , the highest one being lvl 35(Cirno) lowest one being lvl29(Kaguya), avarage lvl is 29(11 members in party), so i should just get better at the game instead.
And lastly a newbie question: What is going on with items? The wiki page has a list of all the items, but that isn't that much of a help.I now know you can have duplicates of the same equipment.
It really doesn't tell you where specific materials drop though, and how many special items there are. Are specials farmable? And are materials random or do they have a clearly defined floor they drop on?
So thats it, sorry for the long post, but I'll greatly appreciate any help, I'm kinda confused.
And if you could recommend some newbie characters that are not too hard to play I'll be happy.I guess this game was not meant to be so hard, but I'm really new to this kind of stuff. :)
Thanks.
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Sounds like you haven't played the first touhou labyrinth at all either based on some of those questions, the stories aren't related or anything so you can play in whichever order you like, but I just want to encourage you to try 1 as well because it's a fantastic game. Even better in some regards IMO.
But about how to build a party... I haven't played 2 1/10th as much as 1 so I don't feel comfortable yet saying what a good # of tanks to magic dps to melee dps, etc ratio would be or anything like that. But I do know that how you build characters is mostly the same...though 2 favors offensive oriented parties more than 1 does (people think 1 does but it really doesn't.. 2 kinda does because of all the late game bosses that take 0s from everything that isn't a glass cannon).
Before I possibly scare you away with my rambling nature, I just want to make sure you are aware that you get a talent point thingie every level up... not the ones you invest in stats... the kind that does stuff like increase reimu's paralize chance, or make marisa reduce mystic damage to the whole party, or make patchy nuke harder after concentrating a turn... I failed to notice this part of the game until like floor 8 on my first playthru and that's really important. It's one of the menu items that you select when you push the menu button, it's not a town-menu thing unlike all the OTHER level progression choices. Hopefully the answer is no you weren't aware, in which case boom, instant power ups! =)
now for the rest:
Basically, how you build a character with skillpoint exp and how you build one with level up bonuses are different. With your skillpoints, you want to spread out what stats you level to some extent... obviously you don't need to pour it into patchy's attack or remilia's mag, but otherwise, even the 'bad' stats should get SOME attention. Sure raising patchy's paltry defense by 2% isn't going to make numbers go up nearly as much as raising her mnd by 2%, but when it costs you 100 skillpoints to raise her def skill by one and costs you 400 to do her mnd, I'd say go for it somewhat. I can't remember the skillpoint leveling curve in laby2, but in 1 each character's 'bad' stats would increase in skillpoint cost at a much higher rate than their good stats. So rather than focus on how many times I leveled up each stat, I just ignored that number and focused on how much it would cost to level up that stat. I personally preferred making it so each character's main stats (like remi's atk,def, and mnd... def and mnd being main to ME because I frequently use her as my 2nd slot tank.. I'd treat hp as a main stat too before particularly hard on tank bosses like baal avatar) would cost about double that of their 'off' stats. That's just a rule of thumb I had though. I wasn't super anal about it and made sure every character had those ratios at all times.
Level up bonuses work differently than skillpoint bonuses however. They do not cost more or somehow give you diminishing returns by pouring all into 1 stat like skillpoint bonuses do. So people generally favor doing so. Most of the time it's in a character's primary attack unless they are a dedicated tank. You CAN pour them in defenses in laby 1 but most people prefer not to (it's still viable though...not hp, def/mnd. Except for characters like chen, flan, or something). As I mentioned 2 already has a demand for really effective nukes with its late game bosses, so you probably want to spend all your level up bonuses on a character's primary attack stat for like. 8-10 out of 12 of your characters. I say out of 12 in case you change them around sometimes, which is kinda required for a first playthru to some extent, don't think I'm saying you need to stick with 12 for life or anything, though it often is in your best interests to try and rotate without frequency simply for the purposes of not 'wasting' too many skillpoint levels on a characters you no longer use. Don't panic if you've done this already a few times though, it's pretty normal to rotate a character out for good every odd time you get a new character in a first playthru.
Anyway, spending all your level up bonuses into 1 stat isn't exactly the ultimate clear cut best strategy per say. It's just that there are no other options to heavily invest in one skill without increasing investment costs... so if you decide you want to balance your character more later on for some reason, you kind of can without being punished too much using skillpoint levels. But you can't do the reverse without being charged a massive amount of skillpoints to really counter the benefit.
That said laby 2 lets you invest and reinvest level up bonuses in the hakkurei shrine, which is cool, feel free to experiment.
TLDR: Make sure you know about those other talent point thingies you get each level.
Don't spend all your skillpoints into one stat, the increase in cost will make their effectiveness less than if you share some love in all the stats (though I wouldn't suggest equally).
Spend all your level up bonuses into each character's primary attack stat if they ARE an attacker.
one last thing If orgot to mention.. many people like following the last rule even to characters I make exceptions to... those being primary attackers who you use for defense-ignore attacks. I personally like investing int heir defenses with level up bonuses more because they ignore defenses, so any investment into their attack stat doesn't really grow more than you would expect... I can't explain well.
Basically pretend an enemy has 100 defense...
both characters hit said enemy for 100, character #2 ignores defenses. That means character 1 hits for 200 before defense, and character 2 hits for 100 (actually for character 1 it depends on the formula but let's just say it's atk-def for now)
Now lets say you invest so many skillpoints into their atk stat that it doubles.
that means character 1 hits for 400 - 100 = 300 damage
character 2 hits for 200 - 0 = 200 damage... So even though they originally hit as hard, even though you invested the same amount of skillpoints, and even though both their attack stats doubled.. character 1 got more benefit from it because their attack did NOT ignore defense.
That's why I actually favor not going all attack in defense ignore characters...*BUT* I'm a weirdo that actually enjoys building more defensive than most people in general. I ENJOY a good 40 minute boss fight
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Welcome to Labyrinth of Touhou 2, shadyangel. I hope you enjoy your stay at the Great Tree where every random encounter is trying to annihilate your entire party. Silly introduction aside, I have played this game several times so I'm able to give you tips about this game.
About character building for Level up Bonuses, I usually focus on the characters? ?main usage? but I sometimes redistribute her stats depending to the situation. For example, Momiji, who is your main tank, should naturally be raised purely in her DEF since her DEF growth rate is very high. However, if you are against enemies who use both Direct attack and Magic attack, you can redistribute her stats? to be equal in DEF and MND so she doesn?t get killed by Magic attacks.
About Magic Library, it is a place where you increase your characters? stats even more. Each character?s has their own stat growth and cost of Money to raise their stat per point. The LV0 on the right panel is how many point you have ?bought?. If you raise Momiji?s DEF 50 times with it, it will be LV50. Don?t spend Money on ?useless? stats like Momiji?s MAG since she doesn?t use Magic attack. I don?t really care much about the exact growth rate but just think it as more LV, the better. I usually raise all the relevant stats (like Momiji?s HP, ATK, DEF and SPD) up to the character?s Level and that makes the dungeon not too easy nor too hard. Don't think of this feature as complementary, you will NEED it, especially in the late game.
If by ?Good equipment?, you mean ?covers all stats, resistances and ailments?. I think there should be a few of them in your inventory by now . Equipment depends largely on your party setup and situation. Generally, Your tanks should equip +DEF/MND gear so they can take hits. If you are against a specifc-element boss, you can put Elemental Resistance gear to further reduce the damage. You attackers should naturally be equipped with +ATK/MAG to deal the most damage or +DEF/MND if you want them to survive a few stray hits. Elemental Resistance is really important as it reduces enemies? damage by a percentage. For example, if Momiji has 200 Resistance in Physical, she will take 50% less damage from that. If she has 50, she takes x2 damage from it. Characters with Elemental Resistance lower than 100 are weak against that specific element. Since you have Komachi, raise her Resistances is vital since her defenses are terrible for a tank. TL;DR If you are against a specific-element enemies or you just want your character with elemental weaknesses to survive, then it is advisable to raise them.
About Utsuho not doing enough damage, it might be because 1) Her MAG is too low 2)The enemies has really high defensive stats; in this case, MND. Also, if a non-glass cannon got wipe out in 1 attack, that simply means they are too low in stats. (Except a few attack that are meant to be One-hit kill.)
Honestly, there are no characters that are better than others. It?s just that they might not suit your play style. You might think otherwise once you choose them on your second play through. I can give you tips and usages about those mentioned characters if you want. As of now, focus whatever 12 characters you feel that they are useful. There are plenty of times to experiment with those gimmicky ones.
Speed and Form Change are crucial and I said CRUCIAL in LoT games. Speed determines how fast your characters fill their ATB to 10000 and gain a turn. Every characters start with 5000 ATB once they are in a battle (but there are a few exception.) and their action has different delay (cooldown time). You should raise them on all characters even if they are glacially slow (like Patchy) so they can at least not taking forever to get a turn. Form change is the core features of this game. You must take advantage of this command if you want an easier time. Form Change switches your characters; Back row to frontline and vice versa or 1st frontline slot to 2nd, etc. After you have done so, it puts the switcher and the switched characters? ATB at 7500 so they get a turn quicker. Now this is important. You want to use this feature in two way, 1) switching your fragile/injured character back in before the boss attacks 2) Every characters? spell has their own delay. For instance, after Utsuho uses Giga Flare, her ATB is set at 2400 (24%) so it would take a while for her to gain a turn and she is at risk of dying since her defenses are bad but other frontline characters who get a turn can switch her back in the back row for a healthy/tanky one. The delay of each spell is written in the wiki so you can check that and note that Attack command put you at 7000 so this should be used if the characters have nothing better to do.
About failing at Iku, what do have your problems with? And about the equipment page, since in the game, Keine?s School has already listed which items/material are dropped by which enemies/bosses so that?s why it?s left blank. Their clearly-defined chances of drops depend on the enemies. Some are 100%, some are only available if you fulfill a certain condition. (like Tenshi?s 1st fight.) Also, don't worry about missing any. In this game, you will get at least 1 copy through treasure chests.
Special Items are Stats Gems and Training Manual, Skill Tomes and Tome of Reincarnation. I will explain more in detail if you want. The latter two are limited in numbers and can only be found in chests. Stats Gems and Skill Tomes can only be refunded by the use of Tome of Reincarnation so use them wisely. Stats Gems (9 different types) and Training Manual are dropped through boss fights. Each boss fight has 100% drop chance but what you will get is completely random. (so that makes a probability of 1/10) If you fight the boss while oberlevelled, you can still get 1 of them but if at the Challenge Level, you get 2 different ones instead.
I will leave this here for now. If you still have any questions, feel free to ask here. Someone here might be more knowledgeable than me though.
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Thank you guys for the answers , things are much clearer now.
It looks like we had a similar idea then because I spread my library points out, though the highest was the main stat of the character.
Ghaelon: Well I unfortunately knew about those talent point thingies haha :) , but thank you for the reply.
Kageshirou: I kinda had a feeling that i should put some resist gear on, but didn't really know who to put it on, since if i put on characters i do damage with(Patchy, Kaguya, Mystia[She works really well against Iku acutally i just realized yesterday]) I will probably not do as much damage, so she'll kill us eventually.If i put them on my tanks though they will be real tough though i don't see how that will protect Mystia. But I could probably switch in more characters to die haha. Man this boss sure doesn't like me, but I really want to get the dialogue to know what happened to her.
I get what you are saying that i should put my level up bonuses into the characters main stat, (like Momiji, her DEF growth rate is high you said), but I can't really tell what the main stat is for each girl? I'm sure it is indicated somewhere and I'm just blind, and I absolutely didn't know about growth rate until now. What I did was I checked the talent page that tells you whether skills are magic or direkt attack and that was kind of my starting point.
The problem i have with Iku is that everytime I start fighting her, she somehow manages to oneshot my rightmost character (usually Mystia, Patchy) with her first attack, whatever that is.She doesn't really care about Momiji, such a shame haha.Obviously people who aren't dumb like me, will try to engage her with 4 tougher characters and then switch in the glass cannons.Will probably try that though too.
Though with some luck I can halve her hp, but then she turns into mega Iku, who I cannot beat.Her attacks are too strong and you know if all 4 frontliners die I can't even swap in anyone.So after she buffs herself up she usually does an attack which halves all of my frontliners HP (that is after Keine mirror and Minoriko buffs, pretty sure would die instantly otherwise) and then she somehow gets to attack immediately after,doing an attack that is full wipe. I can't seem to survive this wombo-combo double attack, but I could probably beat her because she only has like 1/2 of her HP left.
Thanks for clarification on SPD, now that I think about it ,could it be because my SPD is low? I remember raising it quite high on some characters, but I don't think that's supposed to happen with Iku.
Anyway I'll try to put some resist gear on... someone(?) haha.
I also have a hard time telling whether enemies attack with magic or ... not magic( :] ), and which affinity i should raise to defend.Though Keine will tell me in her school, AFTER i defeated an enemy.I wish she could write notes on the fly haha.How do you guys know?
Just a little on equipments : I actually just put the highest ATK/MAG bonus items on my damage dealers, not caring about defense, since it looks like they'll die anyway.
Thanks for the answers again, now I understand things a bit better. I didn't play the prequel (or Lot1 since they are not related as it turns out) because i was recommended this game first, but I'll be sure to check out the first one after this, which how things are going, It won't be so soon :D.
Edit: Actually i was using Komachi as a full damage dealer character , maybe I should think things through again.
Also as it turns out Utsuho wasn't doing much damage simply because I didn't have enough good MAG% boosting equipment left her, haha thats my bad.
Edit 2: Uh, well i just beat Iku, not sure what happened but all i did was give Momiji some MND and 100 WND res, and on Keine i put points from def to HP, though i didn't touch Minoriko and Reimu yet they somehow survived the instakill WND attack so i won somehow.Probably got lucky.
Though still appreciate help because I'm sure I'll run into an even harder one soon :)
Edit 3: Well it looks like resist gear working so far because somehow i managed to kill the 8F FOE flower just barely (had to finish with reimu default attacks, got kinda lucky) though i was grinding a bit on 6F to get Chen battle points up.
E 4: Hmm.. the wiki doesn't mention growth rate, am i missing something? I also could use an explanation on subclasses though the game tells you briefly, I'll need a special stone of awakening, so far I've found 3 of those.Thank you, I'll stop being annoying now.
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Subclasses can be learned at the Magic Library. Basically, they just add a few skills to your character. For every subclass, 1 skill is free (different stat bonuses), on the other ones you'll have to spent skill points. Learning the subclass will consume 1 Stone of Awakening, but you can use Skill Reset menu in Library to remove the subclass from a character, so feel free to experiment.(Oh yeah, also, when resetting a character,you will be asked if you want to consume a Tome of Reincarnation.Using it will remove all library points and stat gems from a character,so if you don't need that, just click No. Dunno, this stuff seems obvious,but I learned of it pretty late in the game,so I decided to point that out). At your point of the game, subclasses probably won't make a huge difference (plus you probably don't have a lot of spare skillpts),but a small boost still won't hurt.
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Mystia is a hit-and-run glass cannon type so I don't know if raising her Elemental Resistance would help her but that's up to your preference.
What do mean by Main stat anyway? Do you mean the stat that you can put points into without going completely waste? (like Patchy's ATK or DEF)
About which enemies use Direct or Magic, on page 22, the first post has a full database of something like enemies' AI, spell and formula, etc. Beware of spoilers though.
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Yeah pretty much. I mean it's pretty obvious to boost MAG on Patchy because that'll have the biggest impact on her thanks to scaling and stuff, but like Keine? What is she supposed to be?
I thought that, you know, every character has some sort of scaling with every stat, and the one she has the best scaling with , is her main stat.
I don't really know what stat would make her happy , maybe because i still don't understand her role in the party.(pretty much just spamming buffs/switching atm)
In the game i know there's a page for base stats, but i belive the scaling is hidden, so just have to experiment probably.
Maybe all characters can be turned into anything who knows.
Thanks for the answers by the way, appreciate it.
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One thing that really is crucial in lot you might be missing... Make sure you use buffs during bosses.. Reimu's def/mnd buff for example is one of the most importsnt spells in the game (and as such I find making her an enhancer to be a solid subclass choice, in addition to a good first subclasd imo).
Def/mnd buffs make such a huge impact, even at only 20% moves will do much less damage on your tankier characters.
Also about raieing main state. Im not sure about lot2 but I suspect this is the case... But do not count speed as a main stat, not even for aya or chen. I mean trest it as such at the library, but not levelup bonuses. The reason why is 200 spd is 2x faster than 100. But 400 is NOT 4x faster. 700 is.. Then 1100 is 5x faster.
As for figuring out what each characters main attack stat is. That is easy enough to tell for tanks. Its whatecer defensive stat is nsturally their highest. Though def tends to get priority over mnd since there are many high mnd characgers who srent really tanks like patchy, parsee, iku, etc.
For attackers, IIRC its whatever stat is used in the formulas for their spellcards. Iirc the wiki is the only place to tell. But many spellcards mention if they use attsck or magic in their description.
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Yeah pretty much. I mean it's pretty obvious to boost MAG on Patchy because that'll have the biggest impact on her thanks to scaling and stuff, but like Keine? What is she supposed to be?
I thought that, you know, every character has some sort of scaling with every stat, and the one she has the best scaling with , is her main stat.
I don't really know what stat would make her happy , maybe because i still don't understand her role in the party.(pretty much just spamming buffs/switching atm)
In the game i know there's a page for base stats, but i belive the scaling is hidden, so just have to experiment probably.
Maybe all characters can be turned into anything who knows.
To be certain, you need to check the spellcard formulas. But you can kinda guess it in most cases, or it'll say directly in the spellcard description.
Keine, for example, uses mag for all her attacks. Her two damage-dealing spellcards have the formulas:
((128% MAG) - (50% T.DEF)) * (1.216 + (0.064 * SLv))
((128% MAG) - (50% T.MND)) * (1.216 + (0.064 * SLv))
In other words, every 2 points of magic will add 3 damage at skill level 1 (128% mag * (1.216 + 0.064) = 1.5232) to an enemy with a 0 defensive stat.
This also means that her Atk stat is completely useless. Even her basic attack with use her Mag stat. With the exception of subclass spellcards, leveling up her Atk will be a complete waste, so don't do it. This is the case for most characters; you want to level one of Atk or Mag, but not both. Only a handful use composite attacks (Reimu is an example; the spellcard descriptions should say this).
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I'm gunna be streaming LoT2 here in about 20 minutes, if that interests any of you. (http://www.twitch.tv/golden_battler)
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To be fair, which stat is the main stat depends on what do you intend to do with that character. There are many characters who can fit into multiple roles. For example, Keine can fit into a role of either a mage or a supporter. If you want her Keine for pure damage, then her main stat would be Magic. If you want her for buffing/switching, like in your case, DEF and MND. Most supporters' Main Stat are usually built for DEF and MND in order that they can, well, survive and support others.
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(http://i.imgur.com/xchkcOJ.png)
Spells that use the Attack stat will say "Direct Attack" and will target Defense unless stated otherwise.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZjZDWkY.png)
Spells that use the Magic stat will say "Magic Attack" and will target Mind unless stated otherwise.
(http://i.imgur.com/f2N98KI.png)
Spells that use both Attack and Magic and target Defense will say "Composite Direct Attack".
(http://i.imgur.com/NXsSb2i.png)
Spells that use both Attack and Magic and target Mind will say "Composite Magic Attack".
There are no spells that target both Mind and Defense. I made this post to show where it states the damage formula for a Spell in-game, since there seemed to be some confusion about that!
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Hey guys, I've created a bestiary page for LoT2 wiki using someone's table formula from 1F Dungeon page. This bestiary will list all enemies' (that currently exists in the game) information found in the database and put something like HP, stats, resistances into exact numbers.
In addition to the enemies' general information, the database also lists Debuff-ATK, DEF, MAG, MND and SPD. Those are enemies' separate resistances against Debuff which is not told anywhere in the game. I want to list those as I find it useful so players won't spend time trying to debuff the resistant stat. However, there is simply not enough space in the wiki to do so. I'm not an expert in wiki editing so I don't know how to expand more space. Therefore, I want to ask for opinions if we should include those in or leave those out.
P.S. There is also Debuff-ACC and EVA listed in there but since none of the attacks do such thing so I will cut that out.
EDIT: Look like the same user has made more bestiary on later floors. Should I stop what I'm doing and change his one into numbers? (since two bestiaries, just different in how it's written, would be redundant)
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Look like the same user has made more bestiary on later floors. Should I stop what I'm doing and change his one into numbers? (since two bestiaries, just different in how it's written, would be redundant)
I think you should keep going by doing the bestiary section as you started, since the Floor pages already explain the floor overviews about enemies encounter but not their weaknesses. and there is only info on enemy weaknesses for Floor 1 but the for the other Floors none.
Also its nice to see someone adding info about the enemies~!
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Actually, he has done on Floor 2 and 3. That means he might do later floors too.
Anyhow, thanks for the reply. I will keep going for it then.
EDIT: I have decided to keep the separate Debuff resistance but I will leave out the enemies' drop.
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*LoT2 Mechanics and questions*
Other people have already mentioned a lot of key things for you to think about regarding game mechanics and character building but one thing you should keep in mind is that you can always redistribute your characters' Level Up Bonuses and Skill Points to cater to your needs. So while you were trying to fight Iku, you could have redistributed your tanks' stats to focus on HP, MND, and SPD and redistributed equipment to help deal with Paralysis and debuffs. You can consult the wiki figure out what kinds of attacks the boss uses, though for the people who've played LoT1, they already had exposure to most of the characters and thus knew what kind of attacks to expect.
In LoT1, Iku was a MAG character that had spells for enemy DEF debuffs and allied ATK/MAG buffs, as well as Paralysis so people who played LoT1 before probably had an easier first time fighting her than otherwise. You don't really need to have played the first game to play the second one but it kind of helps in a meta way.
On a different note, we really should refer to the stat bonuses we get from using the Library as "Library Levels" or something as the term "Skill Points" means something else in LoT2 than it did in LoT1.
This isn't the best video to show it, since I got pretty lucky with Hina's last attack missing but this is how you should be using Form Changes: Video (https://youtu.be/jX7HeotgBPM)
At 1:32 I was debating on whether or not to attack using Marisa's Magic Missle as my annotations indicate or to manipulate the ATB bar to time Marisa's turn to be right after Hina attacks to I could switch in Kaguya safely. Thats why I ended up using Concentrate a second time to further manipulate the ATB bar when it didn't work out exactly as planned since Concentrate has a delay of 1200, which is shorter than a normal Attack which has a delay of 3000 and a Form Change which has a delay of 2500. In hindsight, I should have just Form Changed Marisa to another slot in the front line to set her ATB bar to 7500, which would have made switching in Kaguya safer.
If you're wondering why I'm only using those two characters, this was part of my second play through of the game and I had decided to go with a synergy run, using only certain groups of characters that had synergy with each other. This particular one was MAlice Cannon, Residents of Eientei and two others which I won't name because of spoilers. If you'll notice, my Library Levels of the characters were ridiculously high at that point in the game but that's because I only had those two characters to work with and I knew that they would be part of my end game team.
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Does anyone have some tips for both the Iku and Yugi fight?
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Does anyone have some tips for both the Iku and Yugi fight?
From what i can remember from the Iku's fight. Anyone who has high mind and/or resists wind is good. Also bring your earth nukers.
Kasen probably works best as a tank, since she has decent mind and resists wind element naturally, plus her earth spell can hurt Iku too. One of Aya's passive skills reduces wind damage taken when she's in the front. Minoriko is also good, since she can heal, her mind is really good, has some wind resistance and she also can attack Iku with her earth spells. I can't remember if you can find some glow crystals, I can't remember if you can find some Glow Crystals at this point, but if you have them give them to your mages as well.
And as always, keep defensive buffs up, heal when needed, switch your attackers when you think it's safe, when Iku uses her atk/mag buff on herself and surviving the coming attack, try to burn her remaining hp as fast as possible.
Yuugi. Hits really hard, but only has single target attacks, so try to raise your dedicated tank's defence as high as possible. She is weak to spirit, mystic and wind. Basically burn her hp down to 50% as fast as possible, switch avoidance specced Aya to the first slot and pray.
If Aya gets knocked out, and if you have Mokou, having her Ressurection skill maxed out with as much TP as you can find works too, but that kinda puts you on rather strict time limit. Basically it's more or less a rush race to defeat her before she oneshot everyone in your party with KOi3S.
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I'm just curious...but how do people like lot2 compared to 1? I love 2, it's a great game, and I enjoy it every time I play it...but...I thought 1 was better.. 2 has better art, more atmospheric music, better character customization. I think they really did a good job taking 1, expanding it in nearly every way...but somehow 1 was more fun for me... it's like the fine-tuned balance of the enemies and the bosses and the characters was absolutely perfect.. and in 2, it's good, but not absolutely perfect.
In 1, I had to play the game like a damn addict from start to finish, and when I finished it, I couldn't wait to start it all over again with a new cast... in 2. Despite enjoying it, I didn't have that drive, and I feel like too many bosses pigeonhole player strategies into def-ignore or glass-cannon tactics with their uncompromisingly high defense without necessarily having high overall difficulty.
But like I said, I still think it's a fine game, and I'm really biting my nails here waiting for that damn +disc! grrr...
Just curious what the other people experienced with both games feel.
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From what i can remember from the Iku's fight. Anyone who has high mind and/or resists wind is good. Also bring your earth nukers.
Kasen probably works best as a tank, since she has decent mind and resists wind element naturally, plus her earth spell can hurt Iku too. One of Aya's passive skills reduces wind damage taken when she's in the front. Minoriko is also good, since she can heal, her mind is really good, has some wind resistance and she also can attack Iku with her earth spells. I can't remember if you can find some glow crystals, I can't remember if you can find some Glow Crystals at this point, but if you have them give them to your mages as well.
And as always, keep defensive buffs up, heal when needed, switch your attackers when you think it's safe, when Iku uses her atk/mag buff on herself and surviving the coming attack, try to burn her remaining hp as fast as possible.
Yuugi. Hits really hard, but only has single target attacks, so try to raise your dedicated tank's defence as high as possible. She is weak to spirit, mystic and wind. Basically burn her hp down to 50% as fast as possible, switch avoidance specced Aya to the first slot and pray.
If Aya gets knocked out, and if you have Mokou, having her Ressurection skill maxed out with as much TP as you can find works too, but that kinda puts you on rather strict time limit. Basically it's more or less a rush race to defeat her before she oneshot everyone in your party with KOi3S.
Thanks for the help :3
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LoT2 feels too casual for my taste, choose the right skills and you can just breeze through it, grind 10 minutes for extra content maybe, really disappointing. Thanks to Ethan I learned that there's software out there to change the amount of exp you receive though, that fact combined with more customization, better graphics make it way better then LoT1 for me.
This contains some spoilers about obtainable characters, I don't know how to mark them as such, can someone point out how to do that?
About character balancing, I feel like LoT1 has some bad characters, while in LoT2, you have only good ones, and then those who are even better, it's a bit weird. I'd say that LoT2 has more balanced characters compared to 1 though, since everyone can be useful in some way, without overleveling. I feel like playing defensive is more viable, in LoT2, which is nice. I remember trying a Patchouli-only run in LoT1, giving her a lot of defense. Needless to say, I failed at some point. It should be possible in LoT2 though, just waiting for Plus Disc to try out some odd builds. Also those synergy skills are just totally OP, at least the one I used for Rin, Satori and Utsuho... or maybe it was just Rin being OP, Satori and Utsuhi basically just had to be around to activate Rins synergy skill, Rin basically did everything alone with Extra Attack. LoT1 was also more fun because you had to be careful with what you do with your Money, no resetting everything to overspecialize your team for specific bosses, you had to go with what you have chosen. I ended up killing some fun for myself more then once after respeccing. This game needs a lot of self-imposed challenges to get the most fun out of it. LoT1 was unforgiving, (remember how we had to grind and grind, only to randomly die and reload the safe from 100 fights before?) that was what made it fun for me. Then again having to reload your game was a bit much, LoT2 still should have some kind of penalty for it. LoT2's Hard Mode was disappointing too, I don't like the game restricting me with what I buy.
I had more motivation with restarting and trying out different characters in LoT2, because characters are more unique as they were in LoT1.
Also 20F Boss in LoT2 was really anticlimactic, I expected something epic like in LoT1, but nope, lame music, lame portrait and nothing special about the fight at all aside from relatively high defenses.
No more floors that absolutely require you to visit the wiki, I didn't like that in LoT1 at all.
Overall, LoT1 was more fun for me too actually, but I that was just because it was the first time playing a game like that, experiencing something for the very first time usually leaves a bigger impact. LoT1 was my favorite game back then, LoT2 is my favorite game now, despite all of it's flaws.
The rest of this message contains spoilers about a the boss, I don't know how to hide it, as I said. So all I can do is saying to not read any further if you don't want to get spoilered.
By the way, for those who played trough the extra content, on 21F after activating all the pillars, an unknown voice says something along the lines of "so the it was defeated by the likes of you...".
Do you think that was hinting at another entity that isn't the (maybe the dragon that was mentioned throughout the game), watching, or was that just the "Energy" that somehow came alive and then merged with the sword for the V2 version?
<Shimatora> Added spoiler tags so I can approve this.
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Hey guys just wanted to give a quick update, and some questions.
(Also big thanks guys, Iku got rekt, and I will have my revenge on her next time.)
So right now I'm on 19F and the strategy to redistribute stats from DEF to MND and vica-versa has been working so far against bosses.On 18F, after a quick check on the wiki I could beat the boss (3 golden orbs team) without much difficulty(well with Yuyuko's cheap DTH attack), though i always try to figure out the gimmick for the first few tries.However this late in the game, i have a hard time against random encounters as well.
It wasn't that bad on 16F and 17F but on 18F my girls were pretty much dead all the time because of those dark guys.I was really happy to reach the waypoint before the orb team combo, since escaping the battle was somehow a better option after I lost 1 or 2 members, but it looks like I'll have to face similar things on this floor too.
The minor problem is that these random encounters have enemies that do different kinds of damage and resistant to different things.So only focusing on MND didn't really help my tanks , neither only focusing on DEF did.I tried a different build, putting 1/3 of the stats to HP, then to DEF and MND, kinda hyprid, but I died just as fast (if not even faster).
The major problem is that, you know, I think that these guys should be handled by your rightmost person, the damage girl, because if they die before they get to take an action then it's all good right, but by the time she could attack , she's already dead because those monsters are too quick, ATB fills up instantly.
Also, these battles usually have similar monsters , usually 3-4 in a pack, though sometimes only 2 , and then the occasional rare monsters.They are usually weak against the same thing, though sometimes there is a guy who is resistant to that element, so you'll have to use another girl to kill those guys with a single target spell card , which isn't really problem cause those are strong anyway.
That's just a theory, but in reality the girls either die, have their mana stolen , or get debuffed to a point where they can't deal enough damage to win the damage race.
So damn quick.
On 19F, i found that Yuuka , and Kasen work well with their AOE NTR spell cards, though I admit that they are not the fastest, bulky rather.
Previously on 18F (tbh that was even worse, so far the 19F monster table didn't really scare me, and ofc now that i said that they will be angry) I was doing something else.
I was using Yuyuko for her AOE SPI spell card that inflicts DTH as well , with quite a high rate, which really did work well , but she was painfully slow.
So i swapped out Sanae for Aya, and basically, cheated my way through the dungeon with her.Since she was fast, she got an action immediately, so i filled Yuyuko's ATB bar with her card, and killed everyone without trouble, except for that 1 guy who was resistant, but a flying boulder from Suika got the job done.Gj girl.
But Aya ran out of gas too quickly. I could do that for like 3 encounters, then without Aya i was kinda hopeless, and considering the the warps and switches floors have, there are a lot of encounters.Edit: I also belive that the encounter % builds up faster, I could be imagining thinks, but it seems so, especially on areas you have been on before.
to face.
What do you guys think about that?How ofter do you leave the dungeon?Because man, i was teleporting back and forth, and had to go through those warpers over and over, I guess that is where difficulty comes from, but at least I memorized the whole maze haha.
I was thinking that i should use a naturally quick character, someone like Keine , Sanae and especially Byakuren, that you usually use to buff people, and build them for damage , though I haven't found a quick ,high damage AOE caster with the right elemental damage yet.So many criteria :) .
I didn't try putting some points into SPD, not having enough damage is just as bad i think, and they just barely die, no overkill from me.
So yeah would like to hear your thoughts as well, I can't be the only one right? ...right?! :ohdear:
jaxter0987 : thanks for the reply, i kinda figured it out by now, (kinda) but the video did help.If only i could have seen it back then, oh man :D, but thanks.
Sorry for the longs post (again) i just can't hold back.
Edit: Also what is plus disc? fill me in with the details pls :)
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PLUS-DISK is the upcoming expansion for LoT2. It's been in the works for a long time, and there haven't been many updates for it. There's no planned release date.
I don't think the title is confirmed, but that's what the expansion to the original LoT was, so it's probably the same.
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I'd say I prefer 2. The character balance is a lot more viable (I've felt I've been able to shake up my team a lot, rather than pretty much always having to use the same 12 people in postgame that I did for LoT1), the game feels a lot more open to exploring and experimentation, and overall it feels a lot more polished. LoT1 is still very good imo, I just think the sequel is an overall improvement.
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I am not really sure. LoT2 improved a lot of things, but dungeons are kinda bland and bosses are not that hard or interesting mechanics or otherwise. And LoT1 had great boss battles. Eientei Trio, Yukari, Kourin and especially Mari. Mari was awesome, The Sword... Was not. But on the other hand more or less all the characters are good and there is a lot of opportunities for experimentation. So i guess, i kinda like them both for different reasons.
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LoT2 feels too casual for my taste, choose the right skills and you can just breeze through it, grind 10 minutes for extra content maybe, really disappointing. Thanks to Ethan I learned that there's software out there to change the amount of exp you receive though, that fact combined with more customization, better graphics make it way better then LoT1 for me.
This contains some spoilers about obtainable characters, I don't know how to mark them as such, can someone point out how to do that?
About character balancing, I feel like LoT1 has some bad characters, while in LoT2, you have only good ones, and then those who are even better, it's a bit weird. I'd say that LoT2 has more balanced characters compared to 1 though, since everyone can be useful in some way, without overleveling. I feel like playing defensive is more viable, in LoT2, which is nice. I remember trying a Patchouli-only run in LoT1, giving her a lot of defense. Needless to say, I failed at some point. It should be possible in LoT2 though, just waiting for Plus Disc to try out some odd builds. Also those synergy skills are just totally OP, at least the one I used for Rin, Satori and Utsuho... or maybe it was just Rin being OP, Satori and Utsuhi basically just had to be around to activate Rins synergy skill, Rin basically did everything alone with Extra Attack. LoT1 was also more fun because you had to be careful with what you do with your Money, no resetting everything to overspecialize your team for specific bosses, you had to go with what you have chosen. I ended up killing some fun for myself more then once after respeccing. This game needs a lot of self-imposed challenges to get the most fun out of it. LoT1 was unforgiving, (remember how we had to grind and grind, only to randomly die and reload the safe from 100 fights before?) that was what made it fun for me. Then again having to reload your game was a bit much, LoT2 still should have some kind of penalty for it. LoT2's Hard Mode was disappointing too, I don't like the game restricting me with what I buy.
I had more motivation with restarting and trying out different characters in LoT2, because characters are more unique as they were in LoT1.
Also 20F Boss in LoT2 was really anticlimactic, I expected something epic like in LoT1, but nope, lame music, lame portrait and nothing special about the fight at all aside from relatively high defenses.
No more floors that absolutely require you to visit the wiki, I didn't like that in LoT1 at all.
Overall, LoT1 was more fun for me too actually, but I that was just because it was the first time playing a game like that, experiencing something for the very first time usually leaves a bigger impact. LoT1 was my favorite game back then, LoT2 is my favorite game now, despite all of it's flaws.
The rest of this message contains spoilers about a the boss, I don't know how to hide it, as I said. So all I can do is saying to not read any further if you don't want to get spoilered.
By the way, for those who played trough the extra content, on 21F after activating all the pillars, an unknown voice says something along the lines of "so the it was defeated by the likes of you...".
Do you think that was hinting at another entity that isn't the (maybe the dragon that was mentioned throughout the game), watching, or was that just the "Energy" that somehow came alive and then merged with the sword for the V2 version?
<Shimatora> Added spoiler tags so I can approve this.
The item distribution in LoT1 was terrible, you would get very good items early on, where as LoT2 you won't get the good items until the later floors. The LoT2 V1 final boss was much hard than the V1 Final Boss of LoT1, but is the exact opposite for v2. I two shot the ver 2 Sword, and I had to clear a good chunk of the append disk levels to even have a change against Maribel 2.
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Well i just killed the final boss, got the clear game achivement. It was kinda tough i think, but having read through the previous pages here people seem to think that it's a pushover, so i may have been overleveled(well i don't really know because it said lvl 100 was the requirement, but avarage lvl was like 95 even though i grinded a bunch to get money, )
Any ideas on where i should be headed to next if I would like to continue this save file? I know there's something like "postgame" somewhere hidden , though i have a feeling I'm far from ready yet :D.
Btw i had to retry a lot, changed my party a bunch, like i got rid of keine because I didn't have any time to use any of her skills.
Party:
Tank-Herbalist Tenshi, that boost was really nice, and the ability to get rid of buffs too.(was using first aid kit, ate some life gems too), though ran out of MP pretty quickly.
Strategist- Byakuren, Hexer Hina & Gambler Flandre...( don't judge , haha :D)
Enchanter Reimu
Healer Minoriko.
Reisen-I gave her HP and made her tanky because pretty much the only things I wanted from her was Intense Vertigo passive and Discarder.
Kogasa -I may have underestimated her in the beginning, she dealt reasonable damage. and thanks to Reisen i was able to proc TRR most of the time.
Kasen- I was actually pretty disappointed with her performance, damage was poor compared to Kogasa, and the TRR infliction rate wasn't as high, but still nice to have her around.
Rumia - Her Dark side of the Moon card did more damage than i thought it would, previously I used Flandre- Laveaetin to clear the golems he summons because didn't know their HP amount, and didn't want to risk it, but a herbalist boost and this card killed them just fine.
Nitori- Super scope, she seems quite strong so far, carrying her around everywhere pretty much.
I didn't really know who the last person should be, I just put Aya in , because why not, though I ended up using 11 girls in the actual battle.Now that I think about it, it would have been wiser to give the Magician sublass to someone to help Tenshi.(I was thinking about Alice , I use her defensively for Trip Wire anyway, and I think her passive would have worked on him.)
The whole fight took like 25 minutes or something, (probably shorter), but I could have made it faster If was attacking more with Flan, but I was scared of losing her :D
Library levels were kinda high tbh, Nitori Flandre Kogasa Kasen had ATK at 100, the rest around 30-60, same with MAG for Rumia.
The others had defensive stats at around 60-80 as well as SPD. I kinda feel bad about it, but whatever he's dead :).
Spoiler:
The ending mentions that Marisa previously owned the god sword or something, does this have to do anything with the first game?
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Spoiler:
The ending mentions thatMarisa previously owned the god sword or something, does this have to do anything with the first game?
That part is actually canon within Touhou itself. She sold it to Rinnosuke without knowing what it really was, mostly because he intentionally didn't tell her what it was so he could get it on the cheap. Rinnosuke's all tricky like that.
As for which of the two games is better... I dunno. I think personally while I find LoT2 easier, it's a lot more enjoyable in a few different aspects, one thing in particular the idea of having forewarning on boss fights. One thing that I really didn't like with the first game is that if you just explore and are running along without thinking, you could run into a boss, be completely unprepared for it, die, and have to reload your last save. And if you haven't saved in awhile... that kind of really sucks. There's a few other minor things, like aesthetics, and such, but overall I do like LoT2 better. I do see why other people might like the first game better, but I don't necessarily agree. ^^;
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<random encounters>
Let Aya pass out free turns to people or make everyone Monks and give them Fast Dash. I never had any problems with random encounters that way.
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*stuff about random encounters*
Just have Aya on the front line and instead of giving people turns using Aya's spell, just swap them in from the back line.
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For me, I find LoT2 more enjoyable. the characters are more polished and made to be better. (Like, Reisen has better Mind than that in LoT1) The mechanics like characters' skill system, Level Up redistribution and Subclasses provide an interesting and replay values. I can try several different possibilities of what each characters can do.
Also, one thing I like is LoT2 fixes one annoying thing in the previous game. when you select the Row-Target or multi-target skill, the game automatically transitions to spell animation. This would be a problem when I inadvertently pick a wrong skill and it happens countless times. (Like WHY does Ran's DEF, MND buff is placed before her ATK,MAG buff?) In LoT2, you are given a confirmation to reselect your spell in case you select it wrong.
I don't disagree with opinions like "The boss is too easy" or "Many bosses are pretty much walls with high DEF and MND" I see why many would think that. I could be wrong though.
To be fair, it has to do with the fact that this game gives you much more information like enemies' HP bar. since players can see/guess how much damage they must deal for a single character, they would focus on bull-rushing, nuking bosses in 2 turns or less and there you have the LoT2's boss fights in a nutshell.
For those who say that many bosses have high DEF and MND, the only bosses I can qualify as such are Tenshi, Magatama (Its HP and overall stats are surprisingly high at the point in the game) and postgame bosses (Yeah, I agree that they are unfair) I can't really say about the final boss though since I mostly use Flandre or Parsee who completely wreck it.
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Thx for the replies.
Any tips for postgame areas?Boss rush done , though seems like my options are fairly limited, I could go recruit the last 2, but Shredding Amnesieri just kills the party. Started exploring extras too, though can't really progress further on 8F and 13F extras, random encounters also kill me (though using Aya so probably could run away a couple of times). Killed the first enhanced(well, managed to inflict DTH on him the first try...) boss but Shadow Poison Wasp is ridiculous , and to be fair, it's really only 8lvl-s above the final boss, but the difference is huge, I don't see any chance.
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In case anyone's interested, I'm streaming more LoT2 here in ~30m. (http://www.twitch.tv/golden_battler)
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Don't tackle those postgame bosses just yet. I suggest that you
1. Grind at 20F Depth, which gives a hefty amount of EXP, until your Level are at 150-200.
2. Your Library Points should be around your level. (This is somewhat mandatory since even a few level behind can make a difference, I could be wrong though)
I know the above process is tedious but I think at Level 108, you would gain like 20 Levels if you can continuously kill them in one turn until all of your attackers are out.
3. Farm more equipment at the extra areas. There are a few (currently) good items there. Look at Keine's Bestiary if you don't know what to get.
4. If you want to fight the postgame bosses at challenge Level (which only gives you more Gems/Manual), you can delevel at the shrine. Note that you don't have to delevel your Level Up Bonuses, you can stiull keep the excess with no penalty. (I think this is what the game/developer expects you to do.)
I recommend that you beat those 3 minions first since it opens more floor (And 16F extra gives you a lot of really great items) Shredding is the hardest one out of the three. The other two minions are laughably easy.
Shredding likes to spam the attack that cuts your front liner's Max HP but that can be prevented by having enough DEF and Dark resistances. Once it falls below 50% HP, it gains a single-target version that is very powerful. Shredding also has less chance to do the multi-target version. It has one cold nuke which only serves to give you a free turn since its Magic is terrible. Note that Shredding gains 24 SPD each turn. You have kill it quickly before it becomes too fast and regenerates all of its HP. Also, if it regenerates above 50% HP, it reverts back to its first phase.
P.S. If you run out of patience and want to cheese the postgame bosses, just use Diva Aya.
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I found Lot1 more difficult and Lot2 more friendly
At least in Lot2 you can see boss icons from away, instead of accidently bumping into them and losing progress to a wide party kill (Hello yuugi), and redistribute your level up bonuses, you could not do that in LoT1 unless cheat engine
Meanwhile,Lot1 bosses were WAY better than 2, i dont know if its their bullcrap mechanics, but i found it more exciting, talking about youmu,Eientei Trio,Mokou,Yukari,MANnosuke,Maribel
And lets not even talk about the post game ones:Utsuho damage race,Yuuka final spark,Eiki auto kill first slot,Beast of centaureas BOMBBEER
And finally the last three, serpent of chaos was the one who most impacted me, i sadly galaxy stopped WINNER to death, plus having only touhou enemy random encounters on the last floor was neat
Another gripe in LoT1 was that some unique drops werent 100% (Machine god lucifer,reactor,Regalia) i mean, if they are supposed to be the last bonus bosses, at least make their drops 100% man.....
And to end,Nobody is useless at LoT2,Lot1 had PLENTY of useless characters who couldnt do anything to contribute in the party
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I found Lot1 more difficult and Lot2 more friendly
At least in Lot2 you can see boss icons from away, instead of accidently bumping into them and losing progress to a wide party kill (Hello yuugi), and redistribute your level up bonuses, you could not do that in LoT1 unless cheat engine
Meanwhile,Lot1 bosses were WAY better than 2, i dont know if its their bullcrap mechanics, but i found it more exciting, talking about youmu,Eientei Trio,Mokou,Yukari,MANnosuke,Maribel
And lets not even talk about the post game ones:Utsuho damage race,Yuuka final spark,Eiki auto kill first slot,Beast of centaureas BOMBBEER
And finally the last three, serpent of chaos was the one who most impacted me, i sadly galaxy stopped WINNER to death, plus having only touhou enemy random encounters on the last floor was neat
Another gripe in LoT1 was that some unique drops werent 100% (Machine god lucifer,reactor,Regalia) i mean, if they are supposed to be the last bonus bosses, at least make their drops 100% man.....
And to end,Nobody is useless at LoT2,Lot1 had PLENTY of useless characters who couldnt do anything to contribute in the party
I agree, Although LoT1 is harder, the bosses were really entertaining. LoT2 doesn't have any entertaining ones, except maybe 9F and 12F Tenshi or RemiSaku.
About the drop, it was made that way because the bosses can respawn, but make it the drop more often at least, not 10%, that's too low even from respawning bosses. Even so I had been grinding for WINNER and I never get one Exoskeleton while I can get TWO Badges. WHY!?
Nobody is useless at LoT2, just because of subclasses. Nobody is useless at LoT1 too, if you have preset party for New Game+. Some characters have their niches.
For example:
Cirno is a fast PAR attacker, while having crap stats in everything else.
Wriggle is a poor man's Komachi with better defenses and excellent resistances on top of reliable PSN.
Reisen and Maribel has crap stats to compensate for their self-buff, if you build them well they will do massive damage.
Keine is Ran without the offensive capability and maybe lesser defenses with better buff, her buffs are better but frontline only and without MND boost, which is weird...
Patchouli is the best MND tank in the game that can also nuke everything unlike any other tanks and covers 4 elements and a piercing non-elemental spell. Her downside is her crap HP, DEF, and SPD. Especially her SPD. She needs support to do well.
Marisa has better stats than Patchouli aside from MAG and MND and way faster but sadly she only have MYS spells.
And any other things I can't think of...
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I know many people disagree but I find sakuya to be useless tier in lot1.
Her speed buff doesnt sell her for me because it isnt really a potent and controllable as ayas. And it just kinda screws with your character order if you have that tuned like I like to do with kaggy bowls and yukari spirits. And her nukes cant dent anything with the slightest of defenses, and while she isnt swuishy, she certainly doesnt have defenses that justify non existant dps (unless target has like NO defense).
Mokou is another really poor character imo.
Marisa imo is actually good because master spark basically makes her like a 5th slot character for dps... Its actually good late game if you dont try and wait for 1600mp. Just wait for a couple hundred (which doesnt take long cuz she is fast) and it still is extremely powerful unlrss target resists mystic well.
I use rans def buff all the time btw. It is nice being able to def buff squishier characters without having them out and vulnerable. Even a little bit like 20% is a large help for slot 4s vs row attacks.
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This may be a little off-topic compared to what's going on in the thread right now, but am i the only one who wants to see the Prismriver sisters appear in the game?
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Edit: Something to help grinding, don't use it when playing normally, as you won't be able to open locked chests.
Basically it disables some fade-in/fade-outs and disables some animations to improve fps.
I didn't make an extra file for just the spell animations since I already uploaded a cheat table for that.
Battle screen looks like this:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=295uyqv&s=8
Yeah, there's still flashy and spinning things that probably drop fps, but I just made this for myself and doing this much was enough without making the game look much worse.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=70500865214928631717
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I know many people disagree but I find sakuya to be useless tier in lot1.
Her speed buff doesnt sell her for me because it isnt really a potent and controllable as ayas. And it just kinda screws with your character order if you have that tuned like I like to do with kaggy bowls and yukari spirits. And her nukes cant dent anything with the slightest of defenses, and while she isnt swuishy, she certainly doesnt have defenses that justify non existant dps (unless target has like NO defense).
Sakuya is fine until post game where SPD buffs become useless. Her speed buff also shouldn't be affecting turn order. At worst, it affects the time between turns but even then, SPD has diminishing returns so its not even too big a difference. She starts off as a mediocre trash clearer and ends up being a beefy SPD buffer until post game where I dropped her.
She's not useless but she's not one of those characters you'd keep from start to finish.
I don't understand how you all can say LoT1 Bosses were more exciting. The only thing LoT1 bosses do better than LoT2 bosses are the form change bosses.
Eientei Trio -------- Yuuka -------- Utsuho ---------------------------- Eiki --------------- Maribel
-------||-------------------||----------------|| ---------------------------------|| --------------------||
Golden Orbs -------Yuuka------Desire Eating Demon ------------Eiki ----------------Guardian of the Crystals / Ame no Murakamo V2 / The Great C
Yukari, MANosuke, Beast of Centaurea
all fall under form change bosses.
Plus we haven't even see Plus Disk bosses yet for LoT2 so we can't even compare Serpent and WINNER
, and we shouldn't really compare Utsuho, Eiki, and Yuuka
anyway.
My guess is the lack of excitement is purely due to the HP bar being present. rather than being in suspense the entire time. Having to wonder how long the fight will last / whether you can survive X number of more turns is thrilling in its own way, but I much prefer being able to see the boss HP bar. Having to count your damage to be wary of thresholds was another interesting thing to have to keep track off in LoT1.
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Great C can go die in a pit, thats the only enemy in the entire game that forced me to change my party setup to poison all 5 and have a chance to win
I consider Desire eater to be a equivalent to Serpent of chaos look wise, both look intimidating and menacing
I forgot to mention alice in Lot1 :V, i hated so much the 18f one way paths
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I'm not sure if my post was part of what was in min for jaxter's reply. I honestly don't know if I feel lot1's bosses are more exciting than 2 or not.. I just think they were balanced better. Like I said, I only played lot2 once so this is just my impression, not my judgement. But lot2's bosses later on felt more like you could't defeat them at appropriate levels without either a specific counter to them, or by having glass cannons, and then if you did have said counters or cannons, they'd drop like a hot potato...
The only example I can really think of like this in lot1 is yukari. If you have an ordinary party and you don't know what to expect, she's actually very difficult. If you have a nuke-oriented party, she's pretty normal... if you have atk suwako and some way to speed up her attacks, yukari is almost helpless. But asides from yukari, I felt like you could stand a chance against most bosses with any kind of party except for some weird parties that have no magic nukes or physical nukes for bosses like hibachi twins or bloody papa (was that his name? lol I forget).
Most people liked teh glass cannon characters in 1, and many of them really were high tier like nitori, kaggy, etc. But while it was pointed out lot2 only had a handful of super mega high defense bosses...they were kind of important milestone/climax bosses.. Like the equivilent of yukari, entei, mannosuke, maribel. I feel like I was cheated that the game's ultimate bosses were ALL of the "you must have a glass cannon focused party or else you'll deal 0s" variety.
Don't get me wrong though, I said flat out I think lot2 was in fact a better game, I just think lot1's balance wasn't just better...but it was specifically tuned for my own personal tastes, making it less about being objectively 'better', but a special thing just for me =P
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Hello again, I've made the suggestion on the wiki's Character page. You know, LoT2's mechanics are much more complex due to the inclusion of subclasses so questions like "How to build X?" or "What subclass should I give to X?" are frequently asked (this is not a complaint). I think the suggestion page would answer those questions. Anyone who has suggestions can go edit there.
On the topic, IMO, the Desire-Eating Demon can go die in the Black Universe. It has the second highest HP in the game, pretty much immune to Magic attack, super lightning speed, can inflict ailments and debuffs which hinder your gears even more and that freaking 1 million damage Death attack which even targets randomly. What's worse, after it is used the first time on 4th turn, it is used again on every 2nd turn after that. That means 26 turns before Death to all party members provided all of them are nukers. Combined with its lightning speed, that is completely unfair. I know that it is supposed to be weak to Shock but...sometimes it's just pure luck if it doesn't proc.
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Desire-Eating Demon can go die in the Black Universe
Tank it with resurrection Mokou; even if you don't use Mokou and hence have no library points on her, it takes extremely minimal investment to get her durability up enough for this role. It's been a looong time but I think you can debuff it to hell pretty easily too, at least it's spd. I didn't have too much trouble dealing heavy damage once I figured out how to not quickly die, but after this much time I don't quite remember how... might've been a mix of mainly Nitori and someone using the monk ntr def-pierce skill?
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I dunno if anyone minds me posting these here or not (if so, feel free to tell me and I'll stop) but I'm streaming more LoT2 here. (http://www.twitch.tv/golden_battler)
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I dunno if anyone minds me posting these here or not (if so, feel free to tell me and I'll stop) but I'm streaming more LoT2 here. (http://www.twitch.tv/golden_battler)
Can't say I mind the notices, since I really enjoy watching how others play LoT. Too bad for me, I check the thread too infrequently to actually watch live.
Also, wasn't Desire Eating Demon where Rin's Cat's Walk Shock
cheese strat comes in? Not that I employed that strategy, I just went in traditionally. Buffed my attackers asap and threw stuff at the left most slot, similar to how I handled Yuugi in LoT1.
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Yep, I know that locking it down with Shock/Monk piercing attack are a viable strategy. In fact, I don't have trouble with the boss itself. Just saying that the boss is absolutely unfair because of one thing aside from its too-many advantages.
The Death attack is completely random. That is the BIG problem since that would mess you up if your important attackers or Shockers suddenly get killed. In Yuugi's fight, you can force her to drop her random attacks by pushing her below 50% HP. However, the demon doesn't do that at all. Also, due to its ludicrous SPD, it pretty much recovers instantly from Shock/High-delay attacks anyway for another random death.
In short, a random damage-race boss with far too many advantages is infuriatingly unfair if you don't use a certain character.
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I was thinking, who is the best self-suficient tank in this game? Mokou Or Byakuren?
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I'd say Hexer Hina is also a very solid candidate.At least for a higher floors and postgame, where your main party members should have a plenty of debuff resist or a way to negate it.
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I was thinking, who is the best self-suficient tank in this game? Mokou Or Byakuren?
Varies by situations, but most of the time, Byakuren. Mokou's Regeneration proc doesn't seem to be very reliable, and seems more like a gimmick. Byakuren on the other hand is strong with her Sutras and you know that she'll tank some shots well.
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For whoever thought of putting up that page for general character build section, I thank you, for I finally have a place to write in that it is a very good idea to fix any elemental resistances that are 84 or higher via Library Levels as soon as possible. It helps so very much with a lot of the characters, since it reduces the number of elemental weaknesses to 1 for many of them, and a few of them can even end up with no weaknesses as a result of this.
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I always felt that just reading the character pages for each of the individual characters was enough for people to get an idea of how to build that character. Obviously, I'm wrong but having a separate page dedicated to just suggesting character builds when the "Character Overview and Comments" sections already do that is a bit... unnecessary. If the overview isn't enough for you to figure out how to build them, then the overview needs to be fixed.
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I always felt that just reading the character pages for each of the individual characters was enough for people to get an idea of how to build that character. Obviously, I'm wrong but having a separate page dedicated to just suggesting character builds when the "Character Overview and Comments" sections already do that is a bit... unnecessary. If the overview isn't enough for you to figure out how to build them, then the overview needs to be fixed.
You're right, but there are some things that should apply to character building as a whole, and it would make some sense to list those things to people who do not already know this. That said, I do wonder if there's a better place to put such general information...
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I'm missing the last stone of awakening and i know its on 18 floor.
(http://i.imgur.com/Dex4VbL.png?1)
The area that is circled in red its where the stone is, but i have searched the entire floor and i can't found which teleporter can take me to that area...
Or its impossible to access that area?
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I'm missing the last stone of awakening and i know its on 18 floor.
(http://i.imgur.com/Dex4VbL.png?1)
The area that is circled in red its where the stone is, but i have searched the entire floor and i can't found which teleporter can take me to that area...
Or its impossible to access that area?
You can definitely get there, you just haven't looked hard enough. I quickly went through the floor again to take this shot...
[attach=1]
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I think the wiki on 18F page also lists where each teleporter take you to.
EDIT: As I add the enemies bestiary, I notice that 12F Magatama and Poisonous Wasp's Shadow, who is said to be immune to Death but still get, have 100 Death resistance, not 120+. I also find out that enemies with 100 Death resistance can still get Death'ed but it occurs very rarely. I'm not surprised by it, why? When I first fight Komachi, I give Youmu 100 Death resistance instead and she stills get Death'ed from Short Life Expectancy...so yeah.
Furthermore, for those who said that enemies in this game mostly have high defensive stats, I notice that enemies usually have lopsided defenses, either have high Defense/Mind and lower on the other stat so you might use wrong attackers against them and got the wrong impression about them (Just my opinion). It does not help that enemies on 1F mostly have high Mind while your only starting character that target Defense is Keine.
Another important thing that I notice is that if the elemental resistance is around 88-128, the damage numbers will not be shown as red or blue-colored whether it is on your party or enemies. I have tested this on Remilia who begins with 128 Physical resistance.
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I think the wiki on 18F page also lists where each teleporter take you to.
EDIT: As I add the enemies bestiary, I notice that 12F Magatama and Poisonous Wasp's Shadow, who is said to be immune to Death but still get, have 100 Death resistance, not 120+. I also find out that enemies with 100 Death resistance can still get Death'ed but it occurs very rarely. I'm not surprised by it, why? When I first fight Komachi, I give Youmu 100 Death resistance instead and she stills get Death'ed from Short Life Expectancy...so yeah.
Furthermore, for those who said that enemies in this game mostly have high defensive stats, I notice that enemies usually have lopsided defenses, either have high Defense/Mind and lower on the other stat so you might use wrong attackers against them and got the wrong impression about them (Just my opinion). It does not help that enemies on 1F mostly have high Mind while your only starting character that target Defense is Keine.
Another important thing that I notice is that if the elemental resistance is around 88-128, the damage numbers will not be shown as red or blue-colored whether it is on your party or enemies. I have tested this on Remilia who begins with 128 Physical resistance.
I am not sure what is considered "Standard" aliment resistance since it works a bit differently but it isn't an absolute scale, just like elemental. I am pretty sure you could still get DTHed if you had 300 death resistance . Red usually means you are weak to the attack and blue means you are strong against it, so the white range normal range for elemental is 88-128.
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I am not sure what is considered "Standard" aliment resistance since it works a bit differently but it isn't an absolute scale, just like elemental. I am pretty sure you could still get DTHed if you had 300 death resistance .
I'unno, I mean, if that was the case you'd be able to instant kill a lot more bosses >_>
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Bosses tend to have 1000 DTH resistance, though. I don't know the formula, but with a value that high, the chances of it happening are probably exactly 0.
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I was thinking, who is the best self-suficient tank in this game? Mokou Or Byakuren?
Varies by situations, but most of the time, Byakuren. Mokou's Regeneration proc doesn't seem to be very reliable, and seems more like a gimmick. Byakuren on the other hand is strong with her Sutras and you know that she'll tank some shots well.
Depends on what you mean by "self-sufficient". If you mean "supporter that tanks very well", then the great sealed magician is indeed the better of the two. However, if all you need is a tank that can simply survive attacks that normally would be impossible otherwise due to damage or instant death, then Mokou can fulfill that role better than Komachi in that regard, thanks to her Resurrection skill(I presume that you meant Resurrection, not Regeneration, since Regeneration is Mokou's "heal 20% HP every turn" skill). Also, if she's built for it, it's entirely possible to turn her into a HP tank to take advantage of her 20% HP recovery skill, only with actual Defense and Mind to go along with it.
If you say that it's not reliable, is it perhaps due to it failing? It has a 10% failure rate, so maybe you're running into that problem?
In all honesty, I'm surprised that it has a failure rate at all, though. It's not as though it would be a game-breaker to make it 100% successful as long as you have the TP for it. I'm also confused as to a lot of things for the characters in the game, as I have stated many, many times.
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My RNG REALLY sucks sometimes, so I actually gave up on trying to use Mokou because she kept on dying in important boss fights. And yes, I did mean her Resurrection skill.
"Mokou! Please, don't die on me again- GODDAMNIT WHY WON'T RESURRECTION PROC?!?"
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My RNG REALLY sucks sometimes, so I actually gave up on trying to use Mokou because she kept on dying in important boss fights. And yes, I did mean her Resurrection skill.
"Mokou! Please, don't die on me again- GODDAMNIT WHY WON'T RESURRECTION PROC?!?"
Yeah, this is why I think that Resurrection shouldn't have that 10% failure rate. Resurrection is her thing, so why does it need to have a chance to fail?
Also, I personally think that Mokou should also have the Sheer Force skill, since there are enemies that would resist her Fire moves otherwise. I actually had thought of something interesting for Mokou as well...
Parting Blaze
Max Level: 1
Skill point cost: 12
Whenever Mokou is dealt enough damage that it would normally reduce her HP to 0, Fire damage is dealt to all enemies. Damage equation is as follows: ((x% ATK) - (50% T.DEF)) where x would equal the percentage of how much damage the attack dealt in comparison to Mokou's Max HP. Basically, an attack that deals damage equal to her Max HP would make x equal 100% and an attack that deals 10 times that will equal 1000%.
I imagine that that would be more or less a broken skill against bosses that have high attack power but not high defenses. However, there aren't many bosses like that, so...
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The thing about giving Sheer Force to Mokou isn't the potential damage impact (if you want an offensive mokou sub her as Monk when you need non-fire damage or something) but the fact that it'd make her even more beastly of a support unit; especially considering she has an Atk/Mag combo debuff. Sheer Force lets you punch things in the fact with debuffs and statuses a lot easier and that's a lot more notable than the elemental piercing.
Tank Mokou with a support subclass is probably vastly more common than offensive Mokou, in any case. Although, well, Fujiyama Volcano combined with Blazing actually isn't half bad, and it's so annoying when your attacks die so Resurrection is a good way out... hmm. Her silly-high mp regen that makes her such a great support-tank supports that, too...
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The thing about giving Sheer Force to Mokou isn't the potential damage impact (if you want an offensive mokou sub her as Monk when you need non-fire damage or something) but the fact that it'd make her even more beastly of a support unit; especially considering she has an Atk/Mag combo debuff. Sheer Force lets you punch things in the fact with debuffs and statuses a lot easier and that's a lot more notable than the elemental piercing.
Tank Mokou with a support subclass is probably vastly more common than offensive Mokou, in any case. Although, well, Fujiyama Volcano combined with Blazing actually isn't half bad, and it's so annoying when your attacks die so Resurrection is a good way out... hmm. Her silly-high mp regen that makes her such a great support-tank supports that, too...
Well, her Wind spell was a factor towards the idea of giving Mokou Sheer Force, as she can actually make use of it without help from a subclass. Being able to reliably weaken the attacks of your enemies is a very good trick to have, and Mokou being someone who could do that would indeed make her a beast of a support unit.
Also, the fact that you mentioned Monk as a subclass made me realize something. If Mokou combined her Regeneration skill with the Monk's Body Revitalization skill, then she would have a 24% HP regen per turn and a 4% buff to five stats. That's kind of scary, when you really think about it, and that's before you factor in the other skills of the Monk.
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Yeah the game isn't really balanced in terms of character/subclass combinations..not that this is a bad thing. I LIKE the imbalance between COs in the Advance wars series for example. Sometimes imbalance is good/fun =)
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Yeah the game isn't really balanced in terms of character/subclass combinations..not that this is a bad thing. I LIKE the imbalance between COs in the Advance wars series for example. Sometimes imbalance is good/fun =)
I think that's less "imbalance" and more "some people are flat out better with certain things than others", which kind of leads to characters being more diverse in what they can do.
As for the idea of Sheer Force, I could see it replacing Fighting Spirit, seeing as Mokou is well and truly a good support unit(which Sheer Force helps with), and it helps with her offense as well.
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If everyone in your party dies and you geared Yuyuko towards tanking, she tanks pretty well.
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This is why Nitori is even more broken in LoT2. plz nerf.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeRv6TQcvkA
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Nitori only gets more broken as you find better equipment. You can avoid having to have a good party/strategy for bosses through postgame by just powering her up and letting her smash through defenses, gimmicks, and tank it all at the same time. Pretty silly.
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I believe I have already seen a page somewhere in which they have the rankings of stats per characters (like Komachi in first place for HP followed by the others etc) for the first game. I can't seem to be able to find this, though. Does anyone know where I can find this data at?
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Nitori does seem quite powerful , especially paired with Hijiri later in the game.
I'm expecting changes from the + Disk to her, not really nerfs or buffs, but a new skill instead.
Possible though that Maintance gets hit by a nerf, but a think that a new mechanic is likely going to replace it. How would you nerf it anyway? And by how much?
I would much rather see other characters getting quality changes and minor buffs.
Liko give Utsuho something to work with, a single target WND spell would do it probably, but i don't see how they could make her more convenient.
Replace Sheer Force on Marisa with Piercing , and give Sheer Force to Alice. I think she's below avarage in every possible way, except specific ailment stacking.
Would also be happy with some defensive stat boost on Satori, that would open up some new paths.
I'd really like more synergies like Mizuhashi + a TRR inflicting person.
If the expansion ever comes out that is :( ???
Any news on that?
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Does anyone know how to make Main Equipment in Nitoris Shop?
The button for it is there, but when i press it, nothing happens...
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Does anyone know how to make Main Equipment in Nitoris Shop?
The button for it is there, but when i press it, nothing happens...
You can't. Maybe it'll be added in the expansion, but it's not possible in the trial that was released.
Presumably it's just another feature he intended to add but ran out of time.
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Oh... Well, good to know, thanks :3
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This is why Nitori is even more broken in LoT2. plz nerf.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeRv6TQcvkA
Nothing can be more broken than Diva Aya. Overheating + Maintenance is insane in the late game, but nothing can top the ability to never let a boss have a turn.
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Ok, Chrome doesn't automatically update webpages any more when I first open it. Strange stuff.
I assume many characters will get rebalanced, more so the weaker characters get stronger.
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Ok, Chrome doesn't automatically update webpages any more when I first open it. Strange stuff.
I assume many characters will get rebalanced, more so the weaker characters get stronger.
I hope that by that you mean the ridiculous characters become weaker so the fair ones can shine.
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I hope that by that you mean the ridiculous characters become weaker so the fair ones can shine.
Or that, but a lot of post game enemies would need to get rebalanced as well.
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So a while back, someone (I forget who) posted a charagraph pack for LoT2 using the images from Puppet Dance Performance. I went and adapted those images in turn to LoT1:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ddpogo2ubf1m7q8/PDP_CharaGraph.rar
I'm not 100% happy with how I sized the large faces, and may redo them later, but I was throwing this together quickly to use on a draft run I'm slowly picking away at with a friend.
Where'd you find the PDP charagraph pack for LoT2?
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The last post on aaa_3peso's twitter is 2 months ago saying he wants to play Fallout 4. RIP expansion until further notice, I guess.
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The last post on aaa_3peso's twitter is 2 months ago saying he wants to play Fallout 4. RIP expansion until further notice, I guess.
Awww, that's sad...
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I finally beat the Enhanced Boss Rush, and after beating it, a message saying that the great tree suffered changes again.
So has someone have been able to found what are the changes?
P.d: And btw do someone has the enemies art? Or more likely how to open the dxa file of image1?
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I finally beat the Enhanced Boss Rush, and after beating it, a message saying that the great tree suffered changes again.
So has someone have been able to found what are the changes?
P.d: And btw has someone has the enemies art? Or more likely how to open the dxa file of image1?
Did you make your profile pic, cause if you have, where did you get that Sagume Kishin model?
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I finally beat the Enhanced Boss Rush, and after beating it, a message saying that the great tree suffered changes again.
So has someone have been able to found what are the changes?
P.d: And btw has someone has the enemies art? Or more likely how to open the dxa file of image1?
I asked this question about a year ago and got no answer.
I assume it is either just a repeated message bug or meant to be for the expansion.
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Playing LoT1 again. While the 12F enemies were very doable and not too much of a hassle 13F just repeatedly kills me. Three of the enemy types just outspeed me and are able to take too many hits and they just wipe the floor with my party members. There's hardly a fight I go out of without a casualty unless it's against a group of Amethyst Sorceresses and Knights.
Should I just grind on 12F and attempt 13F again afterwards or what? Because this floor is really dumb. (I could also go to 14F, but the encounters are probably even worse there, haven't tried yet)
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Should I just grind on 12F and attempt 13F again afterwards or what? Because this floor is really dumb. (I could also go to 14F, but the encounters are probably even worse there, haven't tried yet)
Make a speedster capable of killing stuff and/or just deal with it. It's a single floor and one casualty a battle still allows you a pretty decent exploration length. Grinding will take longer than just playing.
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Make a speedster capable of killing stuff and/or just deal with it. It's a single floor and one casualty a battle still allows you a pretty decent exploration length. Grinding will take longer than just playing.
Neither Chen nor Aya can instakill anything on this floor, and the whole casualty deal is really annoying. I can't even finish one segment of teleportation without having almost my whole party dying on me.
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Neither Chen nor Aya can instakill anything on this floor, and the whole casualty deal is really annoying. I can't even finish one segment of teleportation without having almost my whole party dying on me.
Cirno is pretty fast too if I remember correctly. Put some points into speed for all 3 and use them together, that should help.
You might have to redo your items too.
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Cirno, unless really built, can't do much against floor trash. Chen and Aya are your best bet, add in Marisa, she's quite fast, but not fast enough to take out the swordfish things, which Chen and Aya can do. You can use Ran too, although she needs to be offensively built to take out the threats.
I have been playing LoT1 on and off, playing New Game+ and sometimes the original file for the loot, with no luck.
Been doing New Game+ using my favorite characters. I think they would go through well in the game.
Reimu - The main healer and defenses buffer. Pure MND. She could do well in taking out trash, but her lack of speed means she can't do it effectively.
Marisa - The MYS element MAG nuker. Her speed means she could take out trash before they even act, but there are exceptions.
Sakuya - Support. Pure ATK build so she can still deal damage but still doesn't take out trash that well. She makes up for it by buffing SPD, which the team appreciates, especially Patchy.
Patchouli - All elemental MAG nuker except MYS and SPI. The only MAG non-elemental nuker. Her downside is her SPD, which is helped by Sakuya, Aya, and Sanae. Most of boss battles involve buffing her and nuking the boss.
Meiling - The tank. Pure HP. Tried pure HP to test if she could survive much better than my original save, which was hybrid-turned-pure DEF.
Youmu - The only non-elemental ATK nuker. Doesn't had much use because of her SP. She just switch in, throw one or two Slash of Eternity, and then retreat.
Alice - Bulky MAG Nuker. The only reliable FIR elemental DEF targetting nuker. The other trash clearer as her Seeker Dolls and Little Legion are very strong. Being non-elemental also helps.
Aya - Fastest and only WND elemental ATK nuker. Her mediocre ATK and formula is what keeps her from shining against enemies. Could take out trash but not efficiently.
Sanae - Buffer and occasional healer. Pure MND build. Her main job is passing on Miracle Fruit. Will this gonna work...?
Mokou - Best FIR elemental MAG nuker. She's also fast, and still have WND and non-elemental spells to still take out trash, although not that good.
Yuyuko - SPI elemental MAG nuker. She's like Patchouli, but defensively better.
Yukari - Defense buffer like Reimu, add in PAR inducer and gap hax. Pure DEF. Her gap hax could help in some situations.
What do you guys think?
P.S.: I have no love for LoT2, I don't know why. After finishing off the final boss, I have no drive to continue the post-game content...
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P.S.: I have no love for LoT2, I don't know why. After finishing off the final boss, I have no drive to continue the post-game content...
Interesting, i feel the same way, though i did finish the post-game content.
Meanwhile ,I'm enjoying my time in LoT1. Not saying it's a bad game, but people seem to like the first one better. I wonder what the results would be if someone made a poll.
Maybe it's still too early to judge if the expansion pack is coming.
Does anyone know something about this?- "Labyrinth 2 Phillips disk of the East" (google transalation from twitter).
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Cirno, unless really built, can't do much against floor trash. Chen and Aya are your best bet, add in Marisa, she's quite fast, but not fast enough to take out the swordfish things, which Chen and Aya can do. You can use Ran too, although she needs to be offensively built to take out the threats.
I have been playing LoT1 on and off, playing New Game+ and sometimes the original file for the loot, with no luck.
Been doing New Game+ using my favorite characters. I think they would go through well in the game.
Reimu - The main healer and defenses buffer. Pure MND. She could do well in taking out trash, but her lack of speed means she can't do it effectively.
Marisa - The MYS element MAG nuker. Her speed means she could take out trash before they even act, but there are exceptions.
Sakuya - Support. Pure ATK build so she can still deal damage but still doesn't take out trash that well. She makes up for it by buffing SPD, which the team appreciates, especially Patchy.
Patchouli - All elemental MAG nuker except MYS and SPI. The only MAG non-elemental nuker. Her downside is her SPD, which is helped by Sakuya, Aya, and Sanae. Most of boss battles involve buffing her and nuking the boss.
Meiling - The tank. Pure HP. Tried pure HP to test if she could survive much better than my original save, which was hybrid-turned-pure DEF.
Youmu - The only non-elemental ATK nuker. Doesn't had much use because of her SP. She just switch in, throw one or two Slash of Eternity, and then retreat.
Alice - Bulky MAG Nuker. The only reliable FIR elemental DEF targetting nuker. The other trash clearer as her Seeker Dolls and Little Legion are very strong. Being non-elemental also helps.
Aya - Fastest and only WND elemental ATK nuker. Her mediocre ATK and formula is what keeps her from shining against enemies. Could take out trash but not efficiently.
Sanae - Buffer and occasional healer. Pure MND build. Her main job is passing on Miracle Fruit. Will this gonna work...?
Mokou - Best FIR elemental MAG nuker. She's also fast, and still have WND and non-elemental spells to still take out trash, although not that good.
Yuyuko - SPI elemental MAG nuker. She's like Patchouli, but defensively better.
Yukari - Defense buffer like Reimu, add in PAR inducer and gap hax. Pure DEF. Her gap hax could help in some situations.
What do you guys think?
P.S.: I have no love for LoT2, I don't know why. After finishing off the final boss, I have no drive to continue the post-game content...
You're extremely lacking in the physical damage department. Alice and Youmu are your only reliable means of targetting DEF, with Aya eventually falling off due to the bias towards non elemental attackers as the game progresses. Mokou should be swapped out for Yuugi as they serve the same purpose except Yuugi is ATK based.
Sakuya should not be built ATK at all if you're intending to still use her in the post game. She should be built like any support should be - defensive stats and SPD. I also don't like the idea of Sanae being built pure MND. Why would you let your only offensive buffer be vulnerable in anyway?
I never used speedsters in the first game, so I never really felt the power of Aya / Chen but I'd imagine Aya falls off while Chen shines since Aya is limited to WND while Chen has non elemental.
I've never had a WND or SPI nuker in my party, so I'd imagine those elements aren't worth planning around. It's nice to have a variety, but Patchouli covers pretty much all the bases while Yuyuko and Marisa shore up the two elements she doesn't target.
Play the game anyway you want, but these are just my thoughts on that team. Clearly, you knew what you were doing since you managed to beat WINNER
but there's some issues I feel, with this team composition of yours.
My main game team was pretty close to your team, taking out Youmu, Mokou, Yuyuko, and Aya for Remilia, Yuugi, Wriggle, and Minoriko.
Wriggle, Minoriko, Sakuya, Alice and Patchouli eventually got dropped for Kaguya, Suwako, Renko, Eiki and Kanako
which is now my end game team. I still need to grind 30F a bunch before taking on the Hibachi Twins V2 and Serpent of Chaos
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You're extremely lacking in the physical damage department. Alice and Youmu are your only reliable means of targetting DEF, with Aya eventually falling off due to the bias towards non elemental attackers as the game progresses. Mokou should be swapped out for Yuugi as they serve the same purpose except Yuugi is ATK based.
They don't exactly serve to the same purpose because Mokou can take hits from both sides kinda well while Yuugi excels against physical but heavily struggles against magical. But yeah, used as a nuker, Yuugi is a lot better for that team simply because it lacks physical attackers. Nitori or something would also work very well.
Sakuya should not be built ATK at all if you're intending to still use her in the post game. She should be built like any support should be - defensive stats and SPD. I also don't like the idea of Sanae being built pure MND. Why would you let your only offensive buffer be vulnerable in anyway?
Nooo... Sakuya's defenses are subpar for a main tank and more than enough for a support with no level up investiment. Meanwhile her attack will be absolute trash if not heavily invested into. An offensive Sakuya can get in, Luna Dial, take a stray hit and deal damage when necessary. A defensive Sakuya doesn't have quite that much staying power and nor does have a purpose to stay out for that long. SPD buffs get worse at post game endgame, too. A defensive Sakuya is dead weight in the very last floors. An offensive Sakuya can deal very good damage if provided with adequate support (her ok durability makes her a good target for Miracle Fruit)
And Sanae absolutely does benefit from a full MND build. She doesn't have DEF to stay in the first two slots even if you invest on it. But with only library levels on DEF she's still capable of staying in the back ranks and providing support. Especially so considering his team has access to both Hakurei and IN barriers.
I never used speedsters in the first game, so I never really felt the power of Aya / Chen but I'd imagine Aya falls off while Chen shines since Aya is limited to WND while Chen has non elemental.
Speedsters are cool, except for Chen, they're mostly trash cleaners but they're cool. Chen is ridiculously strong because of her low delay decent spell. Aya is kinda underwhelming for boss battles but definitely not dead weight.
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Play the game anyway you want, but these are just my thoughts on that team. Clearly, you knew what you were doing since you managed to beat WINNER
but there's some issues I feel, with this team composition of yours.
I didn't say I was using that team for beating up WINNER
, it's a New Game+ run using those characters as a challenge.
Yes, the team is really lacking in the physical department. Now that I think about it, physical nukers are always overpowered in LoT, I wonder why.
Oh well, gotta get everything I can with what I have. Meanwhile, good luck to you too.
EDIT: You know what, I maybe should try beating WINNER
with that team, but before that I need more grinding and looting items, especially from Serpent of Chaos and Hibachi Twins v2
.
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Now that I think about it, physical nukers are always overpowered in LoT, I wonder why.
It's not that they are overpowered. They happen to almost have a monopoly on single target nukes with good formulas, while mages tend to have better support options or AoE attacks.
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Nooo... Sakuya's defenses are subpar for a main tank and more than enough for a support with no level up investiment. Meanwhile her attack will be absolute trash if not heavily invested into. An offensive Sakuya can get in, Luna Dial, take a stray hit and deal damage when necessary. A defensive Sakuya doesn't have quite that much staying power and nor does have a purpose to stay out for that long. SPD buffs get worse at post game endgame, too. A defensive Sakuya is dead weight in the very last floors. An offensive Sakuya can deal very good damage if provided with adequate support (her ok durability makes her a good target for Miracle Fruit)
Sakuya just falls off hard period, so I'd rather have an off tank that can stay in the front buffing SPD for people that switch in and out rather than an attacker that does no damage. I literally built Sakuya full offense for the entire main game and even kept her for a bit into the post game. I regret building her offensively.
I didn't say I was using that team for beating up WINNER
, it's a New Game+ run using those characters as a challenge.
I didn't mean that you intended to take on WINNER
with that team. I meant that since you actually beat WINNER, you clearly have a decent sense of strategy and team building. Or just extreme patience to grind indefinitely but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
My Sanae is bulky enough for an off tank so I don't see a problem with investing in her DEF.
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Sakuya just falls off hard period, so I'd rather have an off tank that can stay in the front buffing SPD for people that switch in and out rather than an attacker that does no damage. I literally built Sakuya full offense for the entire main game and even kept her for a bit into the post game. I regret building her offensively.
My Sanae is bulky enough for an off tank so I don't see a problem with investing in her DEF.
Did you have Iku buffing her or something? She absolutely requires damage buffs to be able to deal good damage, otherwise her knives will just bounce off of the enemy.
The thing about her durability is: before post game, she doesn't have SP for far too many Luna Dials, so while you might want her to stay in for like 3 or 4 turns, she doesn't really benefit from the DEF investment because she can stay in without level up bonuses in DEF, only Library levels and maybe equips sometimes. In the endgame/beginning of the post game is when she finally has enough SP to cast many Luna Dials is also the peak of SPD buff usefulness. But at that point she's still durable enough for stuff without level up bonuses. But then you start getting severely diminishing returns in SPD buffing efficiency (which wasn't really that good in the first place) and there are people who do the whole being a tank and switching people in and out a lot better than her. If you have an attack buffer, the ridiculously good 550 multiplier on her Killing Doll might give you good results. But you need every single ATK point as you can get for that.
She's not a full on nuker but she's a pretty good somewhat bulky offensive utility member if invested in pure attack.
And your definition of off tank is kind of very lenient. Flandre is literally more physically bulky than Sanae (16 HP 5 DEF growth vs 10 HP 5 DEF growth), so I dunno. Sure you can make her better at taking an occasional physical hit, but I'd rather have her bouncing off MAG attacks than to hide behind Flandre tank.
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Cirno, unless really built, can't do much against floor trash. Chen and Aya are your best bet, add in Marisa, she's quite fast, but not fast enough to take out the swordfish things, which Chen and Aya can do. You can use Ran too, although she needs to be offensively built to take out the threats.
I have been playing LoT1 on and off, playing New Game+ and sometimes the original file for the loot, with no luck.
Been doing New Game+ using my favorite characters. I think they would go through well in the game.
Reimu - The main healer and defenses buffer. Pure MND. She could do well in taking out trash, but her lack of speed means she can't do it effectively.
Marisa - The MYS element MAG nuker. Her speed means she could take out trash before they even act, but there are exceptions.
Sakuya - Support. Pure ATK build so she can still deal damage but still doesn't take out trash that well. She makes up for it by buffing SPD, which the team appreciates, especially Patchy.
Patchouli - All elemental MAG nuker except MYS and SPI. The only MAG non-elemental nuker. Her downside is her SPD, which is helped by Sakuya, Aya, and Sanae. Most of boss battles involve buffing her and nuking the boss.
Meiling - The tank. Pure HP. Tried pure HP to test if she could survive much better than my original save, which was hybrid-turned-pure DEF.
Youmu - The only non-elemental ATK nuker. Doesn't had much use because of her SP. She just switch in, throw one or two Slash of Eternity, and then retreat.
Alice - Bulky MAG Nuker. The only reliable FIR elemental DEF targetting nuker. The other trash clearer as her Seeker Dolls and Little Legion are very strong. Being non-elemental also helps.
Aya - Fastest and only WND elemental ATK nuker. Her mediocre ATK and formula is what keeps her from shining against enemies. Could take out trash but not efficiently.
Sanae - Buffer and occasional healer. Pure MND build. Her main job is passing on Miracle Fruit. Will this gonna work...?
Mokou - Best FIR elemental MAG nuker. She's also fast, and still have WND and non-elemental spells to still take out trash, although not that good.
Yuyuko - SPI elemental MAG nuker. She's like Patchouli, but defensively better.
Yukari - Defense buffer like Reimu, add in PAR inducer and gap hax. Pure DEF. Her gap hax could help in some situations.
What do you guys think?
P.S.: I have no love for LoT2, I don't know why. After finishing off the final boss, I have no drive to continue the post-game content...
My Cirno wasn't very built, though I did give a bit more speed than normal, and she cleared trash just fine with chen or aya.
Only Floors I really had trouble with before post game/expansion were the last 3 or so.
You aren't missing that much from LoT2 Post game for now. You have to start stacking library levels like crazy for no real reason, unlike LoT1.
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I agree about physical nukes being seemingly better in lot1... for single target... however I didn't really consider if the formulas were the source, but one thing I did notice is that an awful lot of them are non-elemental, and late/endgame, enemies have more resistances than neutrals! and rarely any weaknesses. Making those non-elemental physical nukers useful all the time, whereas nukes with elements will likely be neutered for many fights, especially ones like serpent of chaos who resists most elements by 300 IIRC.
Also I used sanae in my very first playthru, and I built her for defense in that one, and in my first playthru, I was like 10-20% higher in level than other playthrus, maybe even more, and she STILL was prone to being 1-shot by anything that could hit harder than a wet noodle. I'm not talking about big nukes like steel slasher, but even a simple double slash would waste her instantly... granted her skill level was probably lower then because it was my first playthru so I didn't spend all my points on 12 characters but more like 20-30 as I was deciding who I liked, but she was still very clearly hopelessly squishy for me. Even minoruke could take physical hits better, and I spent her level up points on mnd I think, probably because she levels up faster or something.
And yeah, I'm one of the people who favor 1 over 2. I love 2's looks, not just the portraits, but the glow and the dungeon graphics and menus and everything. I love 2's character customization, and subclasses, and class points, I love 2's music (well I do 1s as well, so that's more like a tie... default 1's.. notsomuch expansion disc 1's). 2 does nearly everything better than 1, it's objectively IMO a better game...but.... I still prefer 1 because I just felt that the enemy balance, boss balance, everything was better balanced to be more difficult but fair.. endgame bosses didn't require abuse of op characters, or defense-ignore formulas, but if you did or not, they didn't get easier, and if you had a bad party, they were still doable without gimping you THAT much (unless you have no tank or something), but in 2... like... if you don't have super nukes like nitori, hina, parsee, I forget them all atm... you really are going to be pulling your hair out for some of hte bosses, which kinda sucks.
1 actually has better maze-potential too.. The way 2 draws the tile/grid thing.. it's not possible for the map to be drawn in a way where 2 tiles are 'next-door' to each other but have a wall in between.. because walls in 1 do not take an entire tile.. but in 2 they take an entire tile, making the mazes much less dense and maze-like. This may be a good or bad thing depending on your tastes.. I for one enjoyed figuring out stuff like 10-12's maze, and 18fs pachinko-maze gimmick thing.. But some people hate it, soo ehh.. but yeah. 2's maze system just can't do that.
As for that party setup, let's just say I feel it's much less ideal than I ever thought 'team-unappreciated' was or whatever. Mokou and Sakuya are both two of the first characters that come to my mind as never excelling at anything, and not having a particular strength to compensate, though I hear mokou makes a good trash cleaner, there are lots of those though.
I like Yuyu too, but again, she doesn't really excell at much other than owning trash on occasion, and it's very occasional given the price of her nuke and her slow speed...I thought she'd make a good end game spirit nuke for bosses for the few that don't resist spirit (there are more than a few) given nirvana's best potential in game non-gimmick formula...But by the time she gets the sp pool to actually be able to use it enough times during a boss to pull its weight around... they start using stuff like destroy magic and djinn storm.. argh.
there are a few more characters I feel aren't that hot but whatever... Also, who says cirno can't do trash.. she's one of the best trash owners in the game! I mean marisa's good too but asteroid belt will NOT solo trash for very long unless you're over level, and cirno's comes with par, which is one of the staples for problematic trash enemies even until the very end!
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And your definition of off tank is kind of very lenient. Flandre is literally more physically bulky than Sanae (16 HP 5 DEF growth vs 10 HP 5 DEF growth), so I dunno. Sure you can make her better at taking an occasional physical hit, but I'd rather have her bouncing off MAG attacks than to hide behind Flandre tank.
My definition of off tanks comes from my experience in using her. She is almost as defensively strong as Remilia... only a little weaker in the DEF department and definitely weaker in the HP department since I opted for more elemental and ailment resistances instead.
One last opinion about Sakuya before I drop the topic: I already spend time buffing my attackers. Except the difference is, my chosen attackers do respectable damage WITHOUT buffs while Sakuya seemingly requires buffs to do respectable damage. I'm sad my favorite Touhou doesn't mesh with my play style in LoT1 but it is what it is.
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@jaxter0987
May i ask how you managed to get the CharaGraphs from LoT2? I've been looking for them with no succes.
The only thing I found had different filenames, and after renaming them characters wouldn't show up. (kinda funny when bubbles appear out of thin air)
EDIT: Don't answer, found it looking at your posts :)
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I agree about physical nukes being seemingly better in lot1... for single target... however I didn't really consider if the formulas were the source, but one thing I did notice is that an awful lot of them are non-elemental, and late/endgame, enemies have more resistances than neutrals! and rarely any weaknesses. Making those non-elemental physical nukers useful all the time, whereas nukes with elements will likely be neutered for many fights, especially ones like serpent of chaos who resists most elements by 300 IIRC.
I mean, take a look at some formulas:
Spear the Gungnir (2*ATK - 0.5DEF)*1.6
Knockout in Three Steps (2.5*ATK - 0.4*DEF)*2
Scythe that Chooses the Dead (2.5*ATK - 0.5*DEF)*2
Croaking Frog Eaten by Snake (3*ATK - 0.5*DEF)*2.65
PDLC99MW Megawatt Linear Gun (8*ATK - 0.5*DEF)*1.25
Silent Selene (2.5*MAG - 0.25*MND)*2.5
Moonlight Ray (2.5*MAG - 0.5*MND)*2.65
Fujiyama Volcano (2*MAG - 0.5*MND)*2.75
Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana (3*MAG - 0.5*MND)*3
Beautiful Spring Like Suiga (2.5*MAG - 0.5*MND)*2.5
The way I see it is that physical attacks tend to have better defense piercing, leading to more steady strong hits, while magical nukes depend more on multipliers. Elements are also a big issue, yeah. Or else we'd all be all over Yuyuko and how good her nuke is. But SPI sucks hard as an element. The elemental resists aren't very different in the post game, though. Serpent of Chaos is a barrier shifting boss and you can hit its 100 "weaknesses" instead of its 500 resists if you pay attention to what it uses. The rest of the bosses mostly have the usual 100 for most of their resists.
Also I used sanae in my very first playthru, and I built her for defense in that one, and in my first playthru, I was like 10-20% higher in level than other playthrus, maybe even more, and she STILL was prone to being 1-shot by anything that could hit harder than a wet noodle. [...] Even minoruke could take physical hits better, and I spent her level up points on mnd I think, probably because she levels up faster or something.
My definition of off tanks comes from my experience in using her. She is almost as defensively strong as Remilia... only a little weaker in the DEF department and definitely weaker in the HP department since I opted for more elemental and ailment resistances instead.
Minoriko has 10HP/3DEF and Sanae 10HP/5DEF. The reason your Minoriko tanked hits better is probably a combination of her initial HP multiplier, faster level up rate and WAY WAY cheaper library levels on both DEF and HP than Sanae. It could also just be confirmation bias, though.
Looking at those screenshots that seems to be a DEF Sanae compared to an ATK Remilia, right? She's also 50 very expensive DEF levels above Remilia to reach that DEF. If you have what it takes to make such heavy investments, then sure, Sanae can be an off tank. But that's a really skillpoint heavy endgame thing.
And yeah, I'm one of the people who favor 1 over 2. I love 2's looks, not just the portraits, but the glow and the dungeon graphics and menus and everything. I love 2's character customization, and subclasses, and class points, I love 2's music (well I do 1s as well, so that's more like a tie... default 1's.. notsomuch expansion disc 1's). 2 does nearly everything better than 1, it's objectively IMO a better game...but.... I still prefer 1 because I just felt that the enemy balance, boss balance, everything was better balanced to be more difficult but fair.. endgame bosses didn't require abuse of op characters, or defense-ignore formulas, but if you did or not, they didn't get easier, and if you had a bad party, they were still doable without gimping you THAT much (unless you have no tank or something), but in 2... like... if you don't have super nukes like nitori, hina, parsee, I forget them all atm... you really are going to be pulling your hair out for some of hte bosses, which kinda sucks.
1 actually has better maze-potential too.. The way 2 draws the tile/grid thing.. it's not possible for the map to be drawn in a way where 2 tiles are 'next-door' to each other but have a wall in between.. because walls in 1 do not take an entire tile.. but in 2 they take an entire tile, making the mazes much less dense and maze-like. This may be a good or bad thing depending on your tastes.. I for one enjoyed figuring out stuff like 10-12's maze, and 18fs pachinko-maze gimmick thing.. But some people hate it, soo ehh.. but yeah. 2's maze system just can't do that.
"2 does nearly everything better than 1, it's objectively IMO a better game"
This is the only part I heavily disagree with you on. 2 has better and more interesting -concepts-. But it utterly fails in proper implementation and balance. In the first game every single character has a bit of a niche and, while some are objectively better than others, they're all more or less in the same power level. It's like in the first game tiers go from C+ to A+. Some are meh but everyone is comparable in some way. In the second game tiers go from B to S+. Everyone is stronger than in the first game but the top tiers are MUCH MUCH stronger than the bottom tiers.
Not only that, the overspecialization that the game allows you made it so the bosses had to be extremely difficult to non specialized parties and still trivial to minmaxed ones. Like you said, in the first game, using the best characters makes your life a bit easier, but it doesn't trivialize the game. And using the worst characters makes you struggle a bit more, but you still don't have to grind to absurdly high levels unless your team is purposely VERY bad.
And yes, LoT1 has much better maze potential. Walls do make a great difference in what you can do.
Fun fact about the original OST of LoT1: it's all public domain stuff. This page has a list of where the songs came from and their titles http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/pages/108.html
I also like the originals a lot better than Plus Disk.
As for that party setup, let's just say I feel it's much less ideal than I ever thought 'team-unappreciated' was or whatever. Mokou and Sakuya are both two of the first characters that come to my mind as never excelling at anything, and not having a particular strength to compensate, though I hear mokou makes a good trash cleaner, there are lots of those though.
I like Yuyu too, but again, she doesn't really excell at much other than owning trash on occasion, and it's very occasional given the price of her nuke and her slow speed...I thought she'd make a good end game spirit nuke for bosses for the few that don't resist spirit (there are more than a few) given nirvana's best potential in game non-gimmick formula...But by the time she gets the sp pool to actually be able to use it enough times during a boss to pull its weight around... they start using stuff like destroy magic and djinn storm.. argh.
Team Unnapreciated was never a bad team, though. It was actually a team with some ridiculously good characters I have no idea why people didn't like.
Mokou does have an area she excells into: SP recovery. If you switch them in and out efficiently, she spams Fujiyama as easily as Suwako spams Croaking Frog, despite the former having a much higher SP cost. She is also capable of taking a few hits, so if the boss is about to act you don't need to remove all of your nukers from the front. Mokou can stay there and give you a more steady strong damage output.
Sakuya doesn't really excel in anything but, built offensively, she's a fast bulky offensive utility character who depends on buffs to deal decent damage. That's quite a few roles for a single character.
there are a few more characters I feel aren't that hot but whatever... Also, who says cirno can't do trash.. she's one of the best trash owners in the game! I mean marisa's good too but asteroid belt will NOT solo trash for very long unless you're over level, and cirno's comes with par, which is one of the staples for problematic trash enemies even until the very end!
Offensive Cirno is indeed a fantastic trash cleaner and general offensive support character, yeah.
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Minoriko has 10HP/3DEF and Sanae 10HP/5DEF. The reason your Minoriko tanked hits better is probably a combination of her initial HP multiplier, faster level up rate and WAY WAY cheaper library levels on both DEF and HP than Sanae. It could also just be confirmation bias, though.
Looking at those screenshots that seems to be a DEF Sanae compared to an ATK Remilia, right? She's also 50 very expensive DEF levels above Remilia to reach that DEF. If you have what it takes to make such heavy investments, then sure, Sanae can be an off tank. But that's a really skillpoint heavy endgame thing.
Yes, I spent more DEF skill points to get Sanae to that level, but its similar to the MND points I spent on Remilia to get to that level. They're both lopsided in defenses, though I put more emphasis on equalizing Remilia's than I did Sanae's. I could equalize Sanae's MND and DEF with equipment but I opted for way more SP instead on one item and way better ailment resistances on another item. Gotta spam that Miracle Fruit yo.
I don't know, I think its just my play style that favors balanced defenses so characters can take hits from both types. While going MND heavy on someone like Sanae and DEF heavy on another similar character would be ideal as far as min/maxing is concerned, the fact that the bosses' attacks are random pushes me away from specializing in their stronger defensive stat.
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I don't know, I think its just my play style that favors balanced defenses so characters can take hits from both types. While going MND heavy on someone like Sanae and DEF heavy on another similar character would be ideal as far as min/maxing is concerned, the fact that the bosses' attacks are random pushes me away from specializing in their stronger defensive stat.
I was sure that that kind of thing would work well on the post game. But now I'm curious about how your Sanae fared in the main game. Do you remember how early those DEF investments start giving return?
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I have Kanako but Suwako isn't appearing at 12f depths, help me? I have a feeling my game's bugged as wiki says only requirement for suwako to appear in 12f is having Kanako recruited, and I watched a youtuber get that event no problem.
EDIT: The wiki is wrong, there's an event you need to get at the upper part of the floor before the one that lets you recruit the moriya god you missed appear. On the plus side..... my characters are avg level 65 now so gg
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What? Sanae's def isn't remotely close to remi's in that 'proof' screenshot. Not that I'd even try to compare the two since I was arguing sane's is bad and I think remi's is good.. I'd compare sanae's to mino's in conjunction with hp or something. Point is, Mino and remi can survive the odd double strike (actually remi can survide the odd steel slasher, needle parade, etc, while mino is more like survives a double slash... needle parade and steel slasher is unlikely at balanced levels)... sanae kinda croaks to anything physical at all IMO though.
Also, I don't get the whole "lot1 is full of bad to average characters.. while lot2 is full of good to very good charaters!"... I've seen this more than once... I want to argue what my issue is with this argument but honestly, I think it'd be like trying to argue how cows are less like games than flies are like peanuts.
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Also, I don't get the whole "lot1 is full of bad to average characters.. while lot2 is full of good to very good charaters!"... I've seen this more than once... I want to argue what my issue is with this argument but honestly, I think it'd be like trying to argue how cows are less like games than flies are like peanuts.
I don't think LoT1 is filled to bad to average and LoT2 with good to very good. I think LoT1 is filled from good to very good characters and 2 with very good to broken characters. The ability to reallocate skillpoints to overspecialize to boss battles, main equips and gems to change base stats and sub equips having a bigger effect on your stats in general combined with the subclass system gives you far too many options.
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Also, I don't get the whole "lot1 is full of bad to average characters.. while lot2 is full of good to very good charaters!"... I've seen this more than once... I want to argue what my issue is with this argument but honestly, I think it'd be like trying to argue how cows are less like games than flies are like peanuts.
Just going to point out that I never intended it as "proof" because if I did, I'd show the equipment used as well. I'll also drop the Sanae thing, as nothing is getting accomplished. I kept saying that she can be an off tank in my experience, everyone else keeps saying otherwise. No point in continuing the discussion.
I can't really comment on LoT1 characters since I've only played through the game once (in fact, I'm still on my first one) but as for LoT2, I feel that the only two outliers are Nitori and Flandre. Tone down Maintenance and give people who possess it better base stats and slightly better scaling to compensate. I really don't know how to tackle Flandre... she shouldn't be able to do that kind of damage without as much investment as Nitori.
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I can't really comment on LoT1 characters since I've only played through the game once (in fact, I'm still on my first one) but as for LoT2, I feel that the only two outliers are Nitori and Flandre. Tone down Maintenance and give people who possess it better base stats and slightly better scaling to compensate. I really don't know how to tackle Flandre... she shouldn't be able to do that kind of damage without as much investment as Nitori.
I remember beating the LoT2 Enhanced Final Boss in just 5 turns because of Flandre and Nitori. Was fun.
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To be fair, you can make everyone a gambler.Most of the time you'll be switching out characters anyway, so it's just a huge damage boost to everyone. Or maybe It's just my playstyle.
It's true, LoT2 has some skills and spell cards which are dumb, you can't name a character from LoT1 that is capable of such things.
e.g. : Flan, Nitori, Byakuren,Hina, even Shikieiki , Aya of course , and Parsee to some extent. Intense vertigo + Yuyuko is another thing. Pretty sure there's more.
What I don't like is that some characters are sooo not worth bothering with, because a MUCH better option is available.
e.g: Utsuho, Remilia, Sakuya,Mokou, and I find Meiling to be pretty bad, but thats probably just me.
Unless you absolutely want to, there's no reason to play with these people.
That's what i would like to see in the expansion pack, spell cards can stay, but skills need to be changed i think.
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It's true, LoT2 has some skills and spell cards which are dumb, you can't name a character from LoT1 that is capable of such things.
e.g. : Flan, Nitori, Byakuren,Hina, even Shikieiki , Aya of course , and Parsee to some extent. Intense vertigo + Yuyuko is another thing. Pretty sure there's more.
Define "dumb". If you mean "dumb" as "broken" then yes, most of them has broken spellcards, as well as skills. Another example is Satori+Komachi and spam Narrow Confines of Avici, or some other great MAG spellcards that the physicals have.
Yakumo Clan still rules now that there's synergy, which means even stronger Yakumo Ran+. Even then Yukari still can't nuke without Ran and Chen.
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Define "dumb". If you mean "dumb" as "broken" then yes, most of them has broken spellcards, as well as skills. Another example is Satori+Komachi and spam Narrow Confines of Avici, or some other great MAG spellcards that the physicals have.
I believe that's exactly what he means, yeah.
In Labyrinth of Touhou 1 you have some characters who clearly stand apart from the rest and some who are redundant/worse in the presence of others. But if you take an alternative route on building your party, those characters will have their chance to shine and, even if your party isn't as strong as it would be with the best characters, you will still be somewhere in a similar power level.
In Labyrinth of Touhou 2 you have an enormous freedom and every single character has at least one pretty good build. But the best characters are -so much stronger- than the rest that you're gimping yourself a lot for not taking them.
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What I don't like is that some characters are sooo not worth bothering with, because a MUCH better option is available.
e.g: Utsuho, Remilia, Sakuya,Mokou, and I find Meiling to be pretty bad, but thats probably just me.
Unless you absolutely want to, there's no reason to play with these people.
The SDM has to be used all together for a big stat boost from their family skill, or they aren't particularly great outside of really niche roles. Exception being Flan, of course.
Mokou is pretty sweet though IMO. Resurrection and Regeneration are both nice, she innately has an atk+mag debuff, and she has a really high mp regen for using a support subclass's skills with (which will make up a lot of her turns; I went with Pharmacologist). I used her all run as a tank and was very satisfied with her performance after proper equipment was placed on her to take advantage of her unusual methods. Blazing isn't half bad either because that's a big boost to damage and lets her contribute despite filling a tanking role.
Or you could make her a bulky damage dealer because resurrection, which would be nice in a gambling build since she'd -still- live and has high mp regen to deal with double costs, but she'd mostly just be limited to FIR so it'd be awkward sometimes. Tanking is more her speed.
...I can't really talk against Utsuho though, maybe after Koishi is introduced so their family skill is better? >_>
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I know you said you'll drop the Sanae thing but I could have sworn you mentioned using her as an offtank in LoT1, not 2.. so err. yeah. I have no clue how she performs in 2 in that regard and retract my statement if we were discussing 2 for it.
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I know you said you'll drop the Sanae thing but I could have sworn you mentioned using her as an offtank in LoT1, not 2.. so err. yeah. I have no clue how she performs in 2 in that regard and retract my statement if we were discussing 2 for it.
No I was definitely talking about LoT1, when I mentioned using Sanae as an offtank. Maybe my definition of an offtank is broader than most people, I don't know.
The second part of my earlier post was responding to your comment about "lot1 is full of bad to average characters.. while lot2 is full of good to very good charaters!"
I can't comment on LoT1 characters because I haven't played the others enough, but I'm on my third playthrough of LoT2 (not including post game) and I've felt the only outliers to be Flandre and Nitori.
I was sure that that kind of thing would work well on the post game. But now I'm curious about how your Sanae fared in the main game. Do you remember how early those DEF investments start giving return?
I just realized I never responded to this. I don't remember when Sanae was able to take some of the bigger hits that bosses dished out. It's been so long since I played the main game of LoT1.
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Guys, a question. The Bugs section states that Meiling's "Gatekeeper that likes to Nap" skill does work, but doesn't provide a Speed boost. Is that true?
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No I was definitely talking about LoT1, when I mentioned using Sanae as an offtank. Maybe my definition of an offtank is broader than most people, I don't know.
I am kinda see what you are trying to say, if I understand correctly about your definition of "off-tank". You are saying that Sanae can be built to be a tank in both DEF (and MND) similar to Remilia but to a lesser extent if you deliberately give Sanae better gear, give her more Library point and focus on her DEF only.
I think Sakuya is good in both ways. Full offense Sakuya needs powerful buffs for her Killing Doll to actually do some good damage (might be a bit weaker than Spear the Gungnir) and she can also buffs her Speed to the max to spam it. Building her this way sacrifice a bit of her bulk.
While Speed buffer Sakuya needs to be switched in quite often to actually makes a huge difference with 80% speed buff on the entire party. Honestly, who doesn't want to get more turns than enemies? And building her that way lets her safely sit at 2nd slot most of the time in my playthrough.
Moving on to the LoT2 balancing. Well, there are quite a number of reasons for it to be less balanced.
Skill, Subclass and improved damage formula all make LoT2 easier but I think some of you might not also consider the following that make LoT2 easier than LoT1 or make LoT1 more fair than 2:
1. You can see enemies' HP bar. That negates your feeling of tense of a hard boss and just go bullrushing it with Gambler Nitori, Eiki, Flan...you name it.
2. Most Main-game bosses in LoT1 don't have either absolutely high DEF or absolutely high MND which limits your ways of attacking. When I attack Reisen with either Physical or Magical, I don't feel any differences even though Boss!Reisen is supposed to have high Mind. From LoT2 wiki's bestiary, most bosses are lopsided in defenses and I think the only boss with extremely high Defense and Mind are Tenshi and the final boss. (Well, in the main game at least. The postgame needs to be fixed, really.)
3. End game bosses in LoT1 have multiple phases so that they can't be defeated until their last form. (Rinnosuke, Maribel) while the sword in LoT2 can be killed even at its first phase.
Also, I think the only broken characters in LoT2 are Nitori and Flandre which was also true in LoT1 and they are absolutely broken if you purposefully give them WAY more Library point than they should have.
Speaking of which, someday I might try a team of the "worst" characters in LoT2. I want to see if they are really bad/overshadowed by others. The following are my thought (in terms of usefulness.) and not gonna cheesing some bosses with Iron Mountain Charge from Monk subclass.
Marisa
Youmu (Attacker)
Cirno (No synergy)
Nitori (NO Maintenance skill, period.)
Mystia (No synergy)
Utsuho (No synergy)
Eirin (No Healer subclass, might also no People of Moon skill)
Sanae (No synergy)
Remilia (No synergy)
That's it for the worst and the rest are just for the sake of having some buffer and debuffer. (every team needs them, you know.)
Keine, Aya and Reisen (No People of the Moon skill)
What do you guys think?
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While Speed buffer Sakuya needs to be switched in quite often to actually makes a huge difference with 80% speed buff on the entire party. Honestly, who doesn't want to get more turns than enemies? And building her that way lets her safely sit at 2nd slot most of the time in my playthrough.
She does that very well with a full attack build and doesn't just flop when speed starts giving you diminishing returns. Buffing everyone's speed is also detrimental to a lot of turn manipulation strategies so it's not something I really want most of the time. The best uses for AoE speed buffing are, in my opinion, for the damage race portion of a fight (like not letting Flandre Laevatein, Yukari's last phase and things like this). There is nothing a defensive Sakuya can do that an offensive Sakuya can't with a tiny bit of extra investment in her cheap library levels. But defensive Sakuya is absolutely incapable of dealing damage.
1. You can see enemies' HP bar. That negates your feeling of tense of a hard boss and just go bullrushing it with Gambler Nitori, Eiki, Flan...you name it.
2. Most Main-game bosses in LoT1 don't have either absolutely high DEF or absolutely high MND which limits your ways of attacking. When I attack Reisen with either Physical or Magical, I don't feel any differences even though Boss!Reisen is supposed to have high Mind. From LoT2 wiki's bestiary, most bosses are lopsided in defenses and I think the only boss with extremely high Defense and Mind are Tenshi and the final boss. (Well, in the main game at least. The postgame needs to be fixed, really.)
3. End game bosses in LoT1 have multiple phases so that they can't be defeated until their last form. (Rinnosuke, Maribel) while the sword in LoT2 can be killed even at its first phase.
Seeing the HP bars doesn't really make the game much easier. We know HP values, keep them in mind for some battles and, even if we don't, there are pattern changes to warn us in the first game. So while it does remove some of the tension, the fact bosses generally have lower HP and higher defenses in LoT2 is what is mostly responsible for the short bullrush battles, rather than knowledge of enemy HP.
The worst part of HP bars is the 3rd thing you pointed out. The visible HP bars ruin the possibility of doing HP tricks like they did in the first game to prevent you from ignoring a boss' dangerous phase. You can't simply give LoT2's last boss 10 million extra HP and keep him regenerated until he reaches the last phase. That, combined with the game's general design makes it so you can just destroy him far too quickly.
And your team seems interesting. It's hard to think about a precise set of rules to use with a party like that with all the options LoT2 offers.
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There is nothing a defensive Sakuya can do that an offensive Sakuya can't with a tiny bit of extra investment in her cheap library levels. But defensive Sakuya is absolutely incapable of dealing damage.
Hmm... if by that logic, supporters/healer/buffers like Reimu, Ran or Iku etc. should also be built offensively since they can't do any damage if built to be pure defensive. Especially Reimu, whose defenses are sub-par/average just like Sakuya to begin with. and can't get much of a defensive built. (still get killed by Steel Slasher in one hit)
Again, it's a matter of personal preference/party composition whether Speed buff really mess up your turns so I'll drop this debate here and now.
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In Labyrinth of Touhou 1 you have some characters who clearly stand apart from the rest and some who are redundant/worse in the presence of others. But if you take an alternative route on building your party, those characters will have their chance to shine and, even if your party isn't as strong as it would be with the best characters, you will still be somewhere in a similar power level.
Ironically the biggest offenders of this tend to be from the Plus Disc. [Utusho is basically useless her damage formula are far too low and her damage types are heavily resisted; Kanako is pretty awful as well.]
And while some characters are considered stronger than others it's not to the degree it makes others useless. Nitori has a powerful; reliable nuke but others can outshine her with elemental edges. Meiling is generally a pretty good tank but so's Tenshi, Remi, ect.
I remember doing LoT draft runs [We'd ban out I think 4 characters; each of the 3 players choosing 1 and agreeing on a 4th ban; usually Nitori, Iku or Meiling]. Then we'd go ABCCBA drafting of characters until the pool was empty and run on NG+. I can say from being forced to use some characters I would not normally use that a lot of them are nowhere near as bad as given credit for. [Utusho and Kanako are still awful however, especially since their skill costs are so high they are literally unusable earlygame]. For example I remember having Tenshi as my main tank and Sanae as my main healer, who was easily able to heal Tenshi up due to Tenshi's low HP; while she could also buff Tenshi's massive defenses. Most people overlook Sanae. [I was A draft]
There's also 'Team Underappreciated' which you can look up on Youtube, and I believe it was this which made people realize 'oh god Nitori is actually strong'.
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Hmm... if by that logic, supporters/healer/buffers like Reimu, Ran or Iku etc. should also be built offensively since they can't do any damage if built to be pure defensive. Especially Reimu, whose defenses are sub-par/average just like Sakuya to begin with. and can't get much of a defensive built. (still get killed by Steel Slasher in one hit)
Nah, Sakuya is a very special case. She has 15/8/7 defenses and incredibly cheap library levels. She can get into the second slot without level up defense investments and be fairly safe, her buff has a very bad delay so a support Sakuya actually has to go in and out and thus not do a very good job as a defensive unit, and, unlike other kinds of buffs, SPD buff gets worse and worse somewhere in the plus disk.
Reimu has meh composite formulas with a meh element, defense buffs never cease to be useful, and when she's not busy with increasing DEF she'll be busy healing. Iku is a single target offensive buffer, so she wants to have staying power so Stickleback anybody who gets in and if she somehow gets a free turn from that she can debuff enemy defenses. Ran has very weak buffs that need to be cast over and over again to be useful (and then they are fantastic) so again she needs staying power and all of her turns will be spent buffing (Ran does have the potential for an offensive build, though).
The character that's most similar to Sakuya is Eirin. She can go even into the first slot sometimes with only library levels and some appropriate equipment and no level up bonuses in DEF (not against extremely strong physical nukers, of course) and her only support spell is not one you want to use all the time. She does the bulk part well with an offensive build but fails in the attack part with a defensive one.
Defensive Sakuya is a good build from somewhere around the middle of of the game until early plus disk if you want to use her as a speed buffer. The reason I defend offensive so much is that: speed buffer Sakuya buffs and runs away, making her bulk not as important as other buffers', SPD gives you diminishing returns and becomes really bad when you reach the 700s (+100% speed makes you only about 30% faster. The turns she spends buffing end up becoming wasted turns for the most part) and then you'll probably want to use her offensively but she'll be useless in that regard.
If you do intend on dropping Sakuya somewhere in the plus disk content then by all means build her defensively and you won't regret it.
And yes, disruptive speed buffs come completely from playstyle. I was just replying to this part of what you said: "Honestly, who doesn't want to get more turns than enemies?". There are some good reasons to not want that. But other than those that's correct.
There's also 'Team Underappreciated' which you can look up on Youtube, and I believe it was this which made people realize 'oh god Nitori is actually strong'.
I wish I understood the reasoning for team Unappreciated. Some characters I can understand being there (like Wriggle, Keine, Minoriko...) but others are so obviously strong (how can someone seriously think Meiling is bad? or Nitori after her damage formula changed from meh to insane? Renko, Reisen, Orin, Iku. all of these were pretty obviously valuable to me when I played for the first time blind)
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I wish I understood the reasoning for team Unappreciated. Some characters I can understand being there (like Wriggle, Keine, Minoriko...) but others are so obviously strong (how can someone seriously think Meiling is bad? or Nitori after her damage formula changed from meh to insane? Renko, Reisen, Orin, Iku. all of these were pretty obviously valuable to me when I played for the first time blind)
From Parallaxal's (the LoT1 player who built and used those Unappreciated Team in the first place) reasoning:
Meiling: I also have no idea. He said that she was underappreciated in other ways. Maybe because her role is just take hit and heal and nothing else?
Nitori: The Unappreciated team was made before the Special Disk came out. Nitori's gun's formula was far weaker than that which doesn't help with her only average stat.
Renko: Because most bosses at the Plus Disk onward are highly resist toward Debuff and Paralysis, which limits her usefulness.
Reisen: Poor spell formula and low stat growth in everywhere else.
Orin: Most players misunderstand how Composite formula works in that game. they think that high DEF or MND will neuter most damage. As a result, they think she is good at sweeping only and not as good in boss fights. However, if you can buff both ATK and MAG, the damage considerably ramps up, most notably on Orin, who already has good ATK and MAG.
Iku: She was a hidden gem that most people ignore because her spell's description is wrong (it says that she buffs by 50% instead of 72%, not helped by the fact that it also paralyze) so people thought it was not worth it since at that time they wouldn't have many Paralysis-resistant gear. By the time player got more buffers like Sanae, Ran etc., most people had already forgotten about Iku's existence.
EDIT: I just easily beat 9F Tenshi with (some) LoT2 "unappreciated" characters. (I used my old file to reach and test the battle immediately) I also didn't use any defense-ignoring skill/spell) so the argument that "Tenshi is unbeatable/frustrating without nuke/defense-ignoring" doesn't hold water now.
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Renko: Because most bosses at the Plus Disk onward are highly resist toward Debuff and Paralysis, which limits her usefulness.
This comment made me realize I knew this was true from experience but I never actually checked it the numbers. Checking the database, most bosses in the plus disk have about 33% vulnerability to stat debuff, which isn't really too terrible, but yeah, low enough to make it not your main strategy. They also have a 4% paralysis vulnerability which is pretty bad. But then I realized just how strong that paralysis is if it lands. Say you're fighting Winner and manage to land a Renko paralysis. At ~2200 speed, a 43~81 power paralysis is enough to get 3~5.7 turns from 0 ATB. That's kinda strong and maybe worth it, considering you have an 18% chance of at least landing the SPD debuff.
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Holy shit 18F monsters are crazy. I didn't think the bunnies could get even worse, and Shub-Nigguraths are always crushing me. Any tips?
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Holy shit 18F monsters are crazy. I didn't think the bunnies could get even worse, and Shub-Nigguraths are always crushing me. Any tips?
Other than the staple, "grind the previous floor until the current floor isn't hell" I can't give any tips. I really need to replay through the main game with my current knowledge that evasion is ass, spending points on the lesser offensive stat is dumb, and spending library levels on characters you won't use is dumb.
18F is a big turning point in LoT1 imo so thematically, it kind of makes sense that everything just cranked up a notch.
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Holy shit 18F monsters are crazy. I didn't think the bunnies could get even worse, and Shub-Nigguraths are always crushing me. Any tips?
Get someone fast enough to run away from every Shrub. Tough it out. If you decide to grind you'll probably regret it when the enemies and bosses in 19F are extreme pushovers and 20F is so much better to grind at.
Since you have both Reimu and Yukari I think it's physically impossible for you to have to grind to be able to beat 18F boss so there is no reason to waste time grinding now. Especially since more time spent grinding on 20F means more chance of not suffering too much trying to get those rare drops.
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Holy shit 18F monsters are crazy. I didn't think the bunnies could get even worse, and Shub-Nigguraths are always crushing me. Any tips?
Use Flandre. Her Laveatein is guaranteed to wipe out the entire floor with some exception or you underleveled Flandre. But you can only use Laveatein around twice at that point.
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I thought nitori was in team unappreciated after the buff... regardless nobody was convinced she was good via that set of videos, it was most certainly the buff. I personally thought she wasn't as god-awful as people made her sound even before the buff because even though her atk is meh and the formula was only 5*atk.. IIRC it was 5* before defense reduction, so it still was really good at piercing... I find her nature aoe nuke to be pretty good too, and that never got buffed, so it's as good now as it was then. AOE physical nukes are pretty rare, as is decent nature nukes, soo.. err, yeah. I have more doubts about mokou than old nitori personally, and sakuya.
One character I thought would be pretty decent for me that really wasn't was kanako, I was thinking she'd be like a magical remi.. remi's got good stats all around, and though her attack formula isn't really great, it's non elemental, and her ability to keep herself buffed easily with it's normal delay and her fast speed makes it pretty darn good dPS, and given her durability, you don't need to switch her out for nuking, you can just keep her there as she pummels enemies down for a long time... Kanako...didn't function like that at all... Being elemental, her nukes would be heavily resisted many times endgame...and prior to endgame, they were so expensive she couldn't use em often... she doesn't make enough sp to use them often either, and her fast nuke isn't remotely like mystia's which isn't really strong compared to other nukes, but more than makes up for it with its speed... hers was...really weak, speed be damned, still weak...so it was really just suiga for bosses unless they were horribly weak to spirit or something.... AND she wasn't nearly as durable as remi due to the lack of self buffing.
As for Meiling in team unappreciated.. are we sure she was considered unappreciated? Personally Iw ould have added her to the team myself as a 'control'... I mean she's really a staple IMO...there isn't any other tank in the game that is as universally good as she is... The other ones can be good some, or even alot of the time, but they all kinda have a weakness that will absolutely annihilate them during some bosses. Meiling can stand up to all and stand well with the sole exception of Eiki, which isn't really an issue since she's designed to be a boss you don't tank pretty much. I mean I know you can with hp-komachi but you can also par-lock that bloodstained seal boss to death before it transforms, not really what was intended =P.
But Anyways, I'd have Meiling in there as a control because she's very stable for every situation, and it would be better and more accurate to 'judge' the team with that footing that is equal for all teams that is China's tanking. The purpose was to judge each character individually, not the overall team makeup I think.
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Pretty sure Meiling was in Team Unappreciated because the creator of it stated that "he was confident that he could beat the game [with Meiling] no matter who the other 11 characters are".
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Pretty sure Meiling was in Team Unappreciated because the creator of it stated that "he was confident that he could beat the game [with Meiling] no matter who the other 11 characters are".
He kind of shafted on Keine's and Wriggle's utility and Renko's Charge importance with that decision. Hard to know if it affected Minoriko positively or negatively, but it definitely hurt Rumia's relevance as a healer, too.
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I think that's somewhat of an overreaction; you still need second slot tanks that can take a real hit, and you still need those buffs and heals Meiling or not.
Also tbh Rumia can't heal worth a damn until postgame and at that point you desperately need the alltarget; he didn't have Reimu.
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The thing is: those two can go in the first slot. Wriggle strugles a little bit against the strongest physical nukes early on but she's capable of handling them with a buff. Keine's DEF is only about 13% weaker than Meiling's but she comes with a DEF buff and has higher MND. Her HP is a bit lower but that only actually makes a big difference against defense ignoring stuff.
And also, with that team composition, Keine wastes a buff on herself and one on Meiling if Meiling is always there, making it incredibly bad when compared to Iku's. Similar thing for Charge, not worth it if you're wasting one buff on yourself and one on Meiling. Those two benefit more from a bruiser tank in the first slot of being in the first slot themselves in Keine's case.
And Rumia's heals are actually decent at around Eientei. That's pretty early! But when you have Meiling to patch people up and Minoriko for the higher heals, AoE is pretty bad more often than not.
Edit: that's indeed a bit of an overreaction. I'm just a bit sad that those videos, which were somewhat supposed to showcase how good those characters actually were, ended up underselling Wriggle, Keine and Charge so bad. Mokou, too. But that's because she's kinda redundant when half of your team has access to fire damage, making her rapidly regenerating SP moot.
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Hello there, I just beat 9F Tenshi again with a full team of LoT2 "unappreciated" characters without the use of defense-ignoring skill.
The annoying things about 9F Tenshi is her attacks. She can randomly cast normal attack to make her turn comes faster, Grass Knot for -50% Speed Debuff, World Creation Press for surprisingly powerful attack and Shadowstep for killing squishy characters. So, I have to stop her from doing that by keeping her cast Sword of Hisou on Youmu every turn. (Meikyo Shisui + Regeneration combo). That way, you don't to worry about her other attacks, aside from making sure Youmu's has 100% buff or more.
When the battle started, I used Reisen to debuff Tenshi's stats until her 100% buff is gone while I buffed Marisa, Utsuho and Eirin with Keine's Enchanter skill "Art of Battlemage". Youmu just kept using her normal attack to gain buffs quickly and Aya kept buffing my party's Speed. When the time is right, I switched Mystia in, who immediately got a turn due to Instant Attack. Then, I silenced Tenshi with Midnight Chorus Master. Tenshi can be easily inflicted with Silence, by the way.
Here is the important part. The key of this battle is to inflict Silence on Tenshi, which reduces her MND considerably. Otherwise, the damage from most magical attackers will be disappointingly low. For example, Marisa with 2458 Magic with 50% buff deals only 2k per hit with Magic Missile. When I attack Tenshi again with Silenced inflicted on her, Marisa with the same buffs deal 4k even though Tenshi resist it. That's a good hit! Utsuho and Eirin can also do around 3k (with around 2200 Magic and 50% buff.) Then the rest of the battle is pretty much Marisa, Eirin and Utsuho chipping way 3k-4k of Tenshi's HP every turn until she dies.
In short, you have to inflict Silence on Tenshi to be able to punch through her defenses. You could argue that "What if I didn't have any attackers who can inflict Silence!?" but on Floor 4, there is an item "Sword of Singing Delusion" which gives all attacks to inflict Silence. I gave it to Youmu, who can Silence Tenshi with her normal attack in around 2-3 hit and the Silence is strong enough for a few turns. Who knows that a random item on that floor can actually be useful! And yes, this battle is not kind to Physical attackers.
Now, the summary for each character's contribution in 9F Tenshi fight.
Marisa: The MVP of this fight. She deals the highest amount of the damage per hit, around 4k with Magic Missile with thanks to; Magic Missile, which has great damage formula, Magic Training and Sheer Force skill which boosts her Mystic damage further.
Utsuho: To be honest, her damage is very random for some reason. Uncontainable Nuclear Reaction can deal around 2k-3k while Giga flare deal almost 4k (might be with the help from Marisa's skill) but Hell's Tokamak deal a consistent damage of 3k. That's great coming from a character who is considered meh by most players.
Eirin: Despite having average formula, Mercury Sea can deal a consistent 3k damage. It also debuff Tenshi's ATK, which is nice.
Sanae: Also 3k damage with Moses' Miracles even though Sanae was only at around 2000 Magic.
Nitori: Not much to say about her but unbuffed Super Scope 3D can deal around 2k even with Tenshi's max buff.
Mystia: She can always silence Tenshi immediately from the reserve slot. Also, unbuffed Midnight Chorus Master can deal around 2k with -50% Debuff on Tenshi.
Remilia: Unbuffed Spear the Gungnir deals 2k-3k with -50% Debuff on Tenshi.
Youmu: Definitely the second MVP. Thanks to her, I can safely ignore Tenshi's other attacks and concentrate on my strategy.
Cirno: Useless-tier. Tenshi has 100 SPD-debuff resistance so Cirno can hardly land any Speed-debuff at all (only once in 5 fights) but Reisen can easily land it with Discarder due to having 100% chance.
So, my point is that 9F Tenshi is beatable without any nuke/defense-ignoring skill. You just need to debuff and silence her. That's all. The battle also takes around only 5 minutes, by the way. I have updated the wiki about this new strategy.
Next, I will see if this strategy also works Tenshi 12F and the final boss on 20F (both of which can be inflicted with Silence.)
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Holy shit 18F monsters are crazy. I didn't think the bunnies could get even worse, and Shub-Nigguraths are always crushing me. Any tips?
I had a similar experience, and due to my party, I actually found 19F to be far easier. I spent much time grinding on 19F.
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So a while back, someone (I forget who) posted a charagraph pack for LoT2 using the images from Puppet Dance Performance. I went and adapted those images in turn to LoT1:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ddpogo2ubf1m7q8/PDP_CharaGraph.rar
I'm not 100% happy with how I sized the large faces, and may redo them later, but I was throwing this together quickly to use on a draft run I'm slowly picking away at with a friend.
http://imgur.com/dewmAu5
I think there something wrong with your face, Marisa.
I will report more bugs as I come across them.
Edit: Sorry, I forgot to add that it's only the small and large face that does that.
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Cirno: Useless-tier. Tenshi has 100 SPD-debuff resistance so Cirno can hardly land any Speed-debuff at all (only once in 5 fights) but Reisen can easily land it with Discarder due to having 100% chance.
Reisen has her Intense Vertigo to help her inflict her debuffs, friend. And Cirno's Icicle Fall needs to be leveled up to at least level 3 to have a 100% chance, meaning that at max level, it's chance of landing is actually at 112%. Besides that, if you want to slow Tenshi down, inflicting Heavy would be much easier to do, as she's weak to that ailment as well. If you're willing to dabble in Toxicologist, anyone can inflict heavy on her, and from your team composition, it seems that either Mystia(Instant Attack, subclass can boost Silence from MCM) or Reisen(Intense Vertigo) would be best for that cause.
I have a question. I noticed that there are only 9 people listed in your fight against Tenshi. May I ask who else you would consider "unappreciated"?
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Reisen has her Intense Vertigo to help her inflict her debuffs, friend. And Cirno's Icicle Fall needs to be leveled up to at least level 3 to have a 100% chance, meaning that at max level, it's chance of landing is actually at 112%. Besides that, if you want to slow Tenshi down, inflicting Heavy would be much easier to do, as she's weak to that ailment as well. If you're willing to dabble in Toxicologist, anyone can inflict heavy on her, and from your team composition, it seems that either Mystia(Instant Attack, subclass can boost Silence from MCM) or Reisen(Intense Vertigo) would be best for that cause.
I have a question. I noticed that there are only 9 people listed in your fight against Tenshi. May I ask who else you would consider "unappreciated"?
Oh my, I didn't thought of that one before. :3
Just tested it, yeah, Icicle Fall (max level) can now actually proc on Tenshi. Reisen without Intense Vertigo also now have a hard time debuffing Tenshi's Speed. (doesn't proc at all) So, the debuff must be stronger than 100% chance to actually pierce through the 100 Debuff-resistance...hmm. So yeah, inflicting Heavy on Tenshi would be easier.
On to the next topic, the reason I have only 9 people in that team because there's no more people that I think they are "unappreciated" so I put some (de)buffer instead (Keine,Aya, Reisen.) If you think someone is bad/not really worth put into the team, you can suggest them but I won't play as them the whole game now due to the university.
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I noticed myself that marisa's magic missle in lot2 is pretty badass... and her master spark is really quite awful..sometimes magic missle would do more damage even because it would pierce better =/. And the times magic missle would do less, master spark would only do like double... not worth it at all.
But uh, in regards to landing debuffs, I only played lot2 like 1.3 times or so, and am still pretty unfamiliar with formulas and stuff (actually they weren't out at all last I played but I knew some kind soul found them since then), I found debuffs to be generally unuseable for most characters in lot2 when I needed them to work. Kogasa on the other hand, I could make hers work all the effing time. I know hina is the debuff queen but I don't think even she can land her debuffs as reliably as kogasa's -mnd debuff... But just curious, are there any other characters who can virtually always land debuffs on even highly resistant enemies? I once thought any character with arm twisting probably qualified, but iirc there was another character I played with using arm twisting and she for some reason didn't succeed at landing debuffs as often as kogasa.
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First, I need to explain that in LoT2, the enemies' have separate debuff resistances. For example, 9F Tenshi has 0 Debuff-resistance to DEF and MND. This means she can be debuffed in Defense and Mind quite easily even with someone with weak Debuff. Tenshi also has a Debuff-resistance of 60 in ATK and MAG so you need stronger debuff for it to proc. I don't know how strong it is needed, though.
Lastly, Tenshi has Debuff-resistance of 100 in Speed so it is nearly impossible to debuff her Speed without someone with 100% or more Debuff chance. Note that even with 100%, it is still hard to proc so you need more than that for it to land reliably. You can use Reisen's Intense Vertigo or Sheer Force/Arm-Twisting skill to lower the resistances.
Kogasa has a fixed 100% Debuff chance in her Dark attack so she can almost always land a debuff even on the most resistant enemies. Other characters with a fixed 100% Debuff chance are Kasen, Utsuho, Alice, Eirin, Reisen, Iku, Kanako and Eiki. Hexer's subclass spell also has a fixed 100% chance. However, Hina and Suwako (her CLD spell only) are the only ones with 100% chance who can increase the Debuff chance further through leveling up their spell.
Also, the debuff resistance listed in Keine's bestiary is for Attack-Debuff only.
And also, Marisa's underwhelming Master Spark is the reason why I put her in "Team Unappreciated."
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Kageshirou, are you using the enemy stat viewer to check those? I had it downloaded but I forgot to back it up after a reformat and the links are now dead. Do you mind uploading it somewhere?
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Someone reuploaded it to the page 22 of this thread and it's still functional so go check here.
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=17586.630
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Thanks a lot!
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I noticed myself that marisa's magic missle in lot2 is pretty badass... and her master spark is really quite awful..sometimes magic missle would do more damage even because it would pierce better =/. And the times magic missle would do less, master spark would only do like double... not worth it at all.
But uh, in regards to landing debuffs, I only played lot2 like 1.3 times or so, and am still pretty unfamiliar with formulas and stuff (actually they weren't out at all last I played but I knew some kind soul found them since then), I found debuffs to be generally unuseable for most characters in lot2 when I needed them to work. Kogasa on the other hand, I could make hers work all the effing time. I know hina is the debuff queen but I don't think even she can land her debuffs as reliably as kogasa's -mnd debuff... But just curious, are there any other characters who can virtually always land debuffs on even highly resistant enemies? I once thought any character with arm twisting probably qualified, but iirc there was another character I played with using arm twisting and she for some reason didn't succeed at landing debuffs as often as kogasa.
I don't remember Master Spark even being good until end game but it still weaker in 2 from what I have seen and Yuka doesn't have it anymore. They should have given her an other spell card.
With Hina around now, a lot of the other characters are not as useful. If there is a debuff/buff that happens along with an attack that is pretty good though.
Byakuren just flat out makes some other characters practically useless. I hope the expansion balances the characters out so the OP ones are not so OP, and the weaker ones are better.
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And also, Marisa's underwhelming Master Spark is the reason why I put her in "Team Unappreciated."
This is why I'm glad for the fact that Marisa can serve as a Mind tank. Her elemental resistances can be fixed via the library to easily remove all weaknesses, she's fast and has Healthy and Lively to help mitigate most status ailments somewhat, and thanks to Sheer Force, she can inflict ailments and debuffs via the Toxicologist and Hexer subclasses. Also, as I have said a number of times before, I think that Marisa would do well with Toxicologist due to the spells effectively becoming four different flavors of Earthlight Ray from the first game thanks to their cost and post use gauge compared to her normal spells, except that they don't actually suck due the both their elements and the status ailments that they inflict. Also, both the stat boosts from the subclass and the Toxic Defense skill compliment Healthy and Lively and go a long way towards dealing with Marisa's low ailment resists. It was like she's made to use it.
Personally, I would honestly want to see what would happen if someone were to replace "Main Character - Marisa" with "Piercing Attack", just to see if granting a 20% piercing effect to all attacks would help in terms of damage for Master Spark. After all, Master Spark is supposed to do a tremendous amount of damage due to how it works, so a guaranteed 20% of that should make it effective enough for it to be usable, right?
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I wouldn't consider Marisa to be underappreciated in LoT2. She definitely loses usefulness as the game progresses due to more and more big enemies resisting Mystic but for the slew of fights in the early to mid game, Marisa's Master Spark has been extremely helpful. For both Iku and 9F Tenshi, Marisa took out a huge chunk of their health with a buffed Master Spark. I just realized I deleted my video of the Iku fight when clearing out space on my computer but I still have the Tenshi fight uploaded to remind me why I keep Marisa around, at least until late game.
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Just beat 9F Tenshi with Calamity Four (Yukari, Hina, Parsee, Kogasa). It was surprisingly easy, I got her on the first try and no one died, though Parsee almost got killed because I put her in the third spot instead of the fourth one which in hindsight was pretty dumb of me instead of putting Kogasa there. Oh well, very smooth fight either way.
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how to beat 9f tenshi without any losses. Every time I try to beat her she occasionally sword of raptures people even if I never cast a buff, very frustrating. I never find her hard to kill anyway if I grind up to 40 or whatever her bonus cap thing is but still.
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how to beat 9f tenshi without any losses. Every time I try to beat her she occasionally sword of raptures people even if I never cast a buff, very frustrating. I never find her hard to kill anyway if I grind up to 40 or whatever her bonus cap thing is but still.
It's extremely easy to beat 9F Tenshi without losses if you abuse HP-focused Momiji tank with some SPI/NTR resistance and her stupid switch synergy with Chen. Once you've got a tank who'll eat Sword of Raptures all day, you just need 3 more people who can survive Violent Motherland and you're golden.
(This is also pretty much the only way to reasonably beat 9F LV80 Tenshi)
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how to beat 9f tenshi without any losses. Every time I try to beat her she occasionally sword of raptures people even if I never cast a buff, very frustrating. I never find her hard to kill anyway if I grind up to 40 or whatever her bonus cap thing is but still.
Did someone in your party have a "gain buffs every turn" passive skill? Even if you never cast a single buff but if the passive buff reaches 100%, Tenshi will still use her Sword of Hisou. If not, you might have mistaken her other attacks as Sword of Hisou instead.
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Hi there. I have just beaten the final boss of the game (yay) and have some question:
-Where can I find the regeneration heart? It seems that I missed it. Also, how can I obtain the Ame no murakumo item? I suppose I will obtain every item of page 6 in the post-game content (and maybe the Murakumo), but I don't know were to find the regeneration heart.
-About FOEs, I have data of 11 of them. The only 1 I have seen and cannot beat is the one in 16F that heals itself for more than 170.000 each turn. Do I need to beat that one to unlock the achivement of register all 12 FOEs or is there another FOE which I cannot saw? Also, are those 12 FOEs the ones I need to eliminate to obtain the achivement of "There isn't a single FOE alive"? Well, not that 12 cause Yuugi doesnt appear again, so only 11.
-Lastly, I only have 10 stone of awakening. Did I miss 2 of them or are they in the post-game content?
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And with this post, we're 25 posts away from 1000. Does anyone want to make a new thread to continue this, because I'm more than willing to do it again if no one else minds.
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And with this post, we're 25 posts away from 1000. Does anyone want to make a new thread to continue this, because I'm more than willing to do it again if no one else minds.
Please add a link to a NG+ save file of the first game: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7188.0;attach=15055 (copied from an old thread)
And LoT2 database stuff: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=17586.630 to the OP
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Please add a link to a NG+ save file of the first game: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7188.0;attach=15055 (copied from an old thread)
And LoT2 database stuff: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=17586.630 to the OP
The NG+ file is for which version of LoT1? And what is included in said file? Sorry if it sounds obvious, but I need to ask now so that I can post it and people won't have to ask about it later...
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The NG+ file is for which version of LoT1? And what is included in said file? Sorry if it sounds obvious, but I need to ask now so that I can post it and people won't have to ask about it later...
It's for 3.01. It's a save file with all characters at lv 1 with their base stats.
And the link points to the post with the database stuff. It contains Enemy Info, Spellcard Info, Passive Skill Info and AI Dump.
Should I make a zip with all of these and upload as a single thing or a link to the post is enough?
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It's for 3.01.
Thank you.
And the link points to the post with the database stuff. It contains Enemy Info, Spellcard Info, Passive Skill Info and AI Dump.
Should I make a zip with all of these and upload as a single thing or a link to the post is enough?
I wasn't asking about the links, actually. I can input said links via copypasta. I just need to know what the NG+ file has in it(characters, etc.).
Edit: Know what? I'll just start the new thread now, and you can tell me later, Ryin. I apologize for my impatience, and for sounding rude.
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nvm, posted in new thread
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nvm, posted in new thread
There's a new thread?
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There's a new thread?
You've probably already seen it, but:
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19029.0.html
Edit: Know what? I'll just start the new thread now, and you can tell me later, Ryin. I apologize for my impatience, and for sounding rude.
I tried PM'ing you but I don't know if I forgot to tick to save a copy of the message in my outbox or if I closed the tab without sending it. So I'm posting here just ot be sure.
It's new game with all characters with base stats.