Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Dorian White on February 22, 2014, 08:42:43 PM
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You received a invitation from DonGrigio to a ?Business meeting?, which can only mean two things. A few free drinks tonight and a lot of trouble.
It was quite clear that it was mostly the later, cause he called not only you but pretty much the whole ?society? of the town, your society. And things got even worse as the rat informed you that some newcomers from the cosa nostra intent to push you all out of business. Apparently they arrived a good while ago but that could mean as good as anything.
?I think we know all how to deal with this situation.? he said. ?The big boss is currently too busy to help you out here but I'm at least in a position to assist you a bit, so here's the deal. You take care of our little problem and I'll keep the cops out of our business.
You see, to shoot someone in plain daylight isn't not only bad business practices, it is also bad for business. I expect you to handle this discreetly. Did I made myself clear?
Anyway, drinks are on the house tonight.?
So, you are supposed to kill each other and he will just sit there and watch? Lurido napoletano bastardo!
Rules:*
-I am the Secondo Capo. Shadoweh is my Co-mod. Decisions by either one should be trusted and to question those decisions is the best way to end up floating face down in the river.
-Don't break the Omerta. You aren't supposed to discuss the game outside the thread to anyone but the game mod, or in a mod-sanctioned quicktopic. Personal quicktopics are an exception, I'm not that strict about none-player/dead-player discussions as long as I can still insure that it wouldn't get out of hand.
-The twilight is often the best time for business.
So you are allowed to make one post between hammer and flip, everything beyond that and posts at night will be deleted, no exception.
-If you are dead, then you can't post. There is a reason why they call it ?silenced?.
-Don't edit posts. We are all guilty of something, so there's no reason to hide the evidence.
-Votes should be structured as "##Vote: Player". If I didn't saw it, then it didn't happened.
-Try to post actual, useful content at least once, preferably twice, every 24 hours. If you can't for some reason, tell me in advance. Otherwise I'll be forced to remind you of your duties.
-Quoting Mod PMs is a gross violation of the Omerta. Don't quote the mod from outside discussion without permission.
-We all know that we want to see each other dead for the lowest motives one could thing of but at least try to keep it polite.
-Play to your wincon but also for the fun.
-Night actions can get submitted via PM or taken from a QT, provided that you have one I know of.
Setup notes:
This is a C9++ setup, so I assume that you know what you can expect. (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B)
-72 hour days, 24 hour nights.
-LYLO and variants (such as MYLO) will be announced.
-Town has to lynch. If there is no majority at the end of the day then to one with the most votes will get lynched, a tie will result in a random lynch of one of them.
-Scum has to kill. If I don't get a kill target then I'll randomly pick one.
Sill in Buisness:
Serela
Sky_Paladin
O4rfish
ActionDan
Raikaria
Schezo
Floating face down in the river:
CF7 ?the Curious? Frattini the local Moonshiner (vanilla town) was lynched day one
Mitsuki ?Green Eyes? Montinari the Owner of the local Box- Arena (town mason) was killed night one
Cheez8 ?Derp Eminence? Formaggio the local Brewer (vanilla town) was killed night one
Neko ?Prince of Cats? Capulet the local Racketeer (scum roleblocker) was lynched day two
PX ?Madman? Pierini the Leader of the local Raiding Party (town vigilante) was killed night two
Zakeri ?Unlucky? Luciano the local Pawnbroker (vanilla town) was lynched day three
Darkninja ?the Wall? Mazzini the local Loan Shark (vanilla town) was killed night three
*(Still subject to alterations)
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The invitations will be send now. Shadoweh, be a dear and entertain my guests while they wait. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_xOSaaVUi8)
You are Shadoweh ?Pretty Butterfly? Ziani the singer and main attraction of the local nightclub.
Sometimes you have to wonder how someone as classy as you could end up working for that rat of a guy but well, he owns the only place around ~ where the gin is cold but the piano is hot ~ and as long as he takes care of the business are you free to drink, flirt with the guests and ~ all that jazz ~
So it's not all that bad, at least he never fails to introduce you to the interesting people at the VIP tables and the number of wishes that he refused to grant you are next to non, mostly cause you know what you want and you know how to get it. But you are a ?bird in a golden cage?, which makes you a small-timer (vanilla town).
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
But since your ?boss? prohibited you any interference in the current events are bound to watch things from a distance.
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Beep Boop I Am A Robot
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He didn't say to confirm yet Serela GOD
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##Vote: Serela
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No, I didn't said that but now I do. Please confirm that you are present and informed.
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I'm here and the serial killer. GG folks.
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<(o.o<) (>o.o)> <( o.o )> (>o.o<) ^( o.o )^ v( o.o )v <( o.o )>
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I am SO informed. You have no idea. I probably even know what "Omerta" means because I totally remembered to check.
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Two-shot Bulletproofvested Bodyguard Treestump reporting in.
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I confirm I exist.
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Nyan Nyan.
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Mafia sux
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And for buying up this special bargain sale, I thank you for your precious service,
Beat you fair and square, Yeah!
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Ok, this will be fun! /confirm
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/confirm wuwu~
Ah I missed this game drug. What, its only been a week? It feels like forever. Ahhhhhh~ That's the stuff.
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Confirm, although I have a lan party tonight and won't be able to play until tomorrow.
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Very well, 12 out of 13 strikes me as good enough to start.
It is now Day one and you got 84* hour to lynch.
*(day extension for the purpos of deadline adjustment)
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Don't look at me, I'm just a simple pawn this game.
##Vote: Bardiche
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Ok, this will be fun! /confirm
lies
##Vote: Mitsuki
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Don't be anti-fun :C
##Vote Schezo
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##Vote: O4rfish
Unacceptable.
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##Vote: Bardiche
He claimed my role, he must be lying
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He claimed my role, he must be lying
This reminds me to point out that the nature of the setup means you should -not- counterclaim someone who claims your role
I don't want our cops or docs counterclaiming eachother or something and then one is lynched and the other is nightkilled >:T
anyway bedtime
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Nyan Nyan.
I expected more from you. You're clearly scum.
##Vote NNR
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7 C's were roled
##Vote: ActionDan
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#Unvote:
##Vote: Action Dan
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Well, let's have some delicious discussion.
Dan, why are you voting Dan? You shouldn't vote Dan, because Dan is totally town.
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What's the proof Dan is town, CF7? Traditionally, self-voting is an extremely anti-town move.
##Unvote
##Vote: CF7
(this is only a tiny bit serious btw)
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Wait, based on that post I should be voting Dan, shouldn't I?
Oh well whatever lol, it's not a serious vote anyway.
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Wait, based on that post I should be voting Dan, shouldn't I?
Oh well whatever lol, it's not a serious vote anyway.
Oh, wait. You should.
Anyway, i have no proof that Dan is town. Obviously.
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There's not really any merit in voting Dan over you, since his vote is a jokevote, after thinking a bit more (it's 4:30 AM)
The act is anti-town but the intent is just silly.
You made a contradictory claim by saying an anti-town act was town, which is... just weird.
you're getting the interesting discussion you wanted at least, I guess.
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Wow I feeel like I sound like I'm actually good at playing Mafia
I should go to bed though
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The First Votecount Is Free
Bardiche (2): Zakeri, Cheez
Schezo (1): Serela
CF7 (1): NekoNekoRex
NekoNekoRex (1): CF7
Action Dan (2) : Action Dan, Schezo
Not voting: Sky Paladin, Raikaria, PX, Mitsuki, Bardiche, Oarfish
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are Lots hours remaining.
Capo gotta make a timer here
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Hey Sky I think it's my turn to get you lynched D1 this time right?
#Vote: Sky_Paladin
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##Vote: PX
best lynch for town so far
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The act is anti-town but the intent is just silly.
You made a contradictory claim by saying an anti-town act was town, which is... just weird.
you're getting the interesting discussion you wanted at least, I guess.
Hm... I made a claim... I really did... A contradictory claim even. How could i? Oh, wait. That was a joke. The part about Dan being totally town. The not joke part was me asking him why he voted himself.
That's true. It IS intersting.
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##Unvote
##Vote: NNR
NNR is showing blatant favoritism towards Dan! Clearly, they must be scumbuddies.
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initial votepark
switch to cf7 is weird, but null-weird
don't like dismissal over action dan.
##Unvote
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
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The last two games, Serela has been dangerously competent and I don't like it.
##vote Serela
Also (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072913.html#msg1072913) this post kind of looks weird.
Raikaria: Yep, it's my turn. We'll both be at L-1 some point this phase, look forward to it <3
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##vote Serela
Also (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072913.html#msg1072913) this post kind of looks weird.
Because reminding Town PRs that this is a rare situation where they should definitely NOT counterclaim, is scummy? >_>;
##Unvote ##Vote SkyPal
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##Vote: Serela
OMGUS? Scum. Not even joking.
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I'm fully aware that it's mostly non-indicative of alignment but it's still almost rvs so I don't care `__________________________________________`
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Also (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072913.html#msg1072913) this post kind of looks weird.
No, that post is sensible and good advice. There's a very real possibility that a player who claims your role is telling the truth. Multiples of the same role can easily exist in this setup, so counterclaiming something like a doctor only helps the scum know who to kill.
That said, you're not scummy just for finding it weird so :V to Serela
And it also is basically still RVS so :V to Bard (and probably right back to me)
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##Vote: Serela
OMGUS? Scum. Not even joking.
youdbestbejoking.jpg
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Honestly, Sky_Paladin should clarify why he thinks Serela's post looks "weird" and whether "weird" equates to "scummy".
Cheez advocating maintaining the status quo and not voting seriously because "lel RVS" is Pro-Scum because only scum benefit from extending the RVS. Affirmative movement to exit the RVS is always good.
Serela's just OMGUS'd Sky_Paladin, then goes "yeah mostly non-indicative but rvs don't care". This is scummy behaviour because Serela's excusing his OMGUS post by the token of "RVS" where it can be construed as an actual serious vote, since it has reasons actually vested in the current gamestate and people who've posted. Backpedaling into "it's an RVS vote" because your reasoning is shit? No way man.
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Cheez advocating maintaining the status quo and not voting seriously because "lel RVS" is Pro-Scum because only scum benefit from extending the RVS. Affirmative movement to exit the RVS is always good.
Nah, voting seriously is good. I'm already doing that with NNR. With this though, the things Paladin and Serela said are non-indicative enough that I really don't think they mean anything (and I'm certainly not going to pretend to have an opinion if I don't have one.) I guess you do though, so that's good too- I just think otherwise.
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I think I'll go with Bard = town
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Nah, voting seriously is good. I'm already doing that with NNR.
So what's your case on NNR exactly?
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Dan I hope you don't plan to keep that opinion on Bard for the next 80 hours because of a couple ED1 posts.
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I did kind of want to vote bard out of reaction for making a serious vote, but I'm glad I didn't though since his reasoning seems pretty solid though, after Serela's "it's RVS so w/e".
Right now I'm just a bit suspicious of Skypal and Cheez, the former for discounting some pretty good advice (and voting Serela for 'being competent') and the latter for having some wishywashy opinions with a ?serious? vote on me for ??? (probably bad!) reasons.
Dan REALLY needs to stop making a habit of announcing townreads in RVS. It's annoying enough I'd almost vote him for it.
"lol RVS" does seem to be kind of the standard though, but it seems we're trying to get out of it which is good.
Tentative vote on Skypal for now I guess, I don't want to OMGUS and I have nothing better.
##Unvote
##Vote: Skypal
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The Second Votecount Costs a Little Extra
NekoNekoRex (3): CF7, Cheez, Zakeri
Action Dan (2) : Action Dan, Schezo
Sky Paladin (3): Raikaria, Serela, Nekonekorex
PX (1): Mitsuki
Serela (2): Sky_Paladin, Bardiche
Not voting: PX, Oarfish
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 70 hours remaining.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
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NNR is town
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50 is a town post, but he was town before that tbh
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Dan, what are your reasons to consider Bardiche and NNR are town?
I don't think what Paladin and Serela did is particulary townish or scummy.
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That reminded me why I find Dan Townreads so annoying.
It's a little early to ask, but, Dan, who are you most suspicious of so far?
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(not that I mind having a townread on me but you can't have townreads without having scumreads first)
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Hm... Bard has some good ideas. Still his vote on Serela is kind of bad, considering Serela raised a valid point, Sky voted him for it and that's pretty much it. Serela voted back. I think it's just a little misunderstanding, considering Sky haven't posted since that. Plus it is still too early for me to make a decision.
##Unvote for now. Hope you won't turbo lynch someone, while i sleep.
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That reminded me why I find Dan Townreads so annoying.
It's a little early to ask, but, Dan, who are you most suspicious of so far?
no one yet.
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Hey guys. I just woke up from a dream in which I was a daycop and I found NNR to be scum. Worth voting?
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Bard's vote on Serela
gr8 case. I cry erry time.
##Unvote:
##Vote: Serela
NNR's 28 honestly would have been fine if he didn't add (this is only a tiny bit serious btw) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072952.html#msg1072952) I forgot we were in RVS
Dan I hope you don't plan to keep that opinion on Bard for the next 80 hours because of a couple ED1 posts.
That's his choice. To later say that he can't have townreads before scumreads is honestly insane. You're just annoyed at the playstyle of "random" townreads but you need to stop going full potato because he can have townreads and not scumreads.
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People should stop hating Serela for being Serela.
CF7, why would we turbo someone?
Dan, there's something I'd like you to answer:
Dan, what are your reasons to consider Bardiche and NNR are town?
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I need to read the C9+ thingy since I forgot to do so after I said I wouldn't join this game @_@
So don't expect me to talk about rolespecs or anything.
And yeah, if anyone's gonna bash Serela it's gonna be me. The day before LYLO.
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Selling rope, just two dollar the feet
NekoNekoRex (2): Cheez8, Zakeri
ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Sky_Paladin (3): Raikaria, Serela, NekoNekoRex
PX (1): Mitsuki
Serela (3): Sky_Paladin, Bardiche, Schezo
Not voting: O4rfish, PX, CF7
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
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CF7 shouldn't unvote, then lean back and "watch the chaos unfold", as it were. Would vote if I wasn't happy with the present location of my vote. Serela placing an OMGUS vote and then backpedaling with "well it's RVS :VVV" is scummy.
I am Bardiche, and I shall have none of these RVS shenanigans. No fun allowed.
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Why would you play a game that wasn't fun?
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Question of the thread
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So no one seems a mafia, even if I keep reading. Yay.
Hopefully I'll have a clue about something when I wake up tomorrow.
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I'm not gonna be the one who kicks us out of RVS for once guys. Someone else do it.
Also I'll buy the rope.
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Sorry, my vote on Serela was RVS.
"The last two games, Serela has been dangerously competent and I don't like it." <-- this was me patting Serela on the head saying 'good job' and that kind of thing. It's totally a joke.
I had just skimmed through my first check in of game start and only her comment stood out;
"This reminds me to point out that the nature of the setup means you should -not- counterclaim someone who claims your role
I don't want our cops or docs counterclaiming eachother or something and then one is lynched and the other is nightkilled >:T"
I thought "Isn't it a little early to be worrying about claims/counterclaims?" I thought 'why so sensitive'. Anyway, I didn't think it was super scummy but I had already written it and so I thought well why not. I also don't think I have the ability to magically go 'xyz is scum' 1/3 of the way through day 1, although apparently Dan can magically town clear and Oarfish gets dreamsleep messages. Sweet.
So now I'm going to be the jerk that says 'OK RVS is over' and put out some semi-serious things.
1 - Well, Serela totally did OMGUS me. That is actually scummy except it's so early in the game I don't really think it's useful.
2 - Bard jumping on Serela for it seems opportunistic. Then when Cheez called Bard on it, she distanced herself with some reporting here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073048.html#msg1073048). I'd vote for Bard at this stage as a serious vote because she only added in her reasoning for voting (and questioned her own vote) when challenged. What.
3 - ActionDan, "I think I'll go with Bard = town", dude, why do you always do this. Every game I've seen you do this they are scum. You actually outed the entire scum team day 1 'as town' in AUS mafia.
4 - I think NNR looks scummy because "but I'm glad I didn't though since his reasoning seems pretty solid though" I disagree that Bard made good reasoning. Also his vote on me so he doesn't OMGUS Serela (who wasn't actually voting him) is kind of lol.
5 - CF7 empty unvote. Uh?
6 - Oarfish "Hey guys. I just woke up from a dream in which I was a daycop and I found NNR to be scum. Worth voting?" I kind of want this to be true because it means Oarfish gets messages from God/is some kind of mafia dream savant. It will be true or not regardless of we lynch him, however, technically you shouldn't be getting messages from outside of the game Oarfish~ Divine inspiration is cheating. You heard it here first.
Ah I ran out of time.
I wanted to go through and see if there was anybody who wasn't posting yet and light a fire under them. But I'm out so
##unvote
##vote Bardiche
I think the backpedaling and two report-type posts are the scummiest things so far. Gotta go~
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So what's your case on NNR exactly?
In #31 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072962.html#msg1072962) NNR said that he thought Dan's post checks out since it was a joke vote, but acted as if CF7 was also suspicious for his own barely-serious post. And he actually sounded serious when he asked it. The double standards bother me and I'm pretty sure scum are more likely to apply double standards than other players when they're the ones who know the players' alignments already.
Holy cut. This early, huh?
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...It's probably worth noting that I made my initial reaction to NNR overblown on purpose for the sake of RVS. I don't actually think Dan is a confirmed scumbuddy or anything but I still stand by thinking NNR's action is the most suspicious so far. Also I'll probably kind of ignore Dan's D1 townreads. AUS mafia didn't leave the best first impression of those.
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RVS was over for a while now.
1 - Well, Serela totally did OMGUS me. That is actually scummy except it's so early in the game I don't really think it's useful.
2 - Bard jumping on Serela for it seems opportunistic. Then when Cheez called Bard on it, she distanced herself with some reporting here. I'd vote for Bard at this stage as a serious vote because she only added in her reasoning for voting (and questioned her own vote) when challenged. What.
So you're saying two things here. 1: Serela's OMGUS is actually scummy. 2: Bard is scummy for voting Serela for being scummy. What now?
Then two things on the rest:
1) I am a man. Please do not refer to me as "she".
2) I don't think reporting works the way you think it does. First line is an obvious request for you to explain; You did explain, so you picked up on it. Second part is me identifying behaviour as pro-scum. This means I think it's scummy. I even add why I think that. Third part describes the behaviour, gives my opinion, then expounds on why scum benefit from it.
Seriously man, the fuck?
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Also his vote on me so he doesn't OMGUS Serela (who wasn't actually voting him) is kind of lol.
wrong player, Skypal. You want the rat-friend.
This big post is kind of a crazy overreaction on his part imo, since he tends to step it up under 'pressure', especially as scum, given I've had firsthand experience in my last two games with him. Tempted to keep my vote on him based on the meta alone, actually.
Anyway as far as the post content, it's half and half I guess. There's a decent bit of open-ended comments and fluff (Oarfish, CF7, Serela), and I don't really think the bard vote makes enough sense (he voted seriously [with OMGUS as a reason] and then backed it up with another [decent] reason when Serela responded and Cheez challenged him. I don't see any distancing.
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Cheezy post
The vote isn't a big deal to me, but I do want to point out my posts' intent were partially to provoke discussion and partially to start lodging the game out of RVS. If it helps see my train of thought.
...which I think it kinda did!
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RVS was over for a while now.
Was it? I didn't think it was.
It seems like it's over now anyway, but it's late my local time so I'mma actually do content tomorrow.
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Okay, looking back at it I still don't agree entirely with Bard's reasoning since the game was, at its furthest, just barely out of RVS and into ED1 (that doesn't really mean Serela should have voted Paladin for that, though.) But um... reporting is just saying what's going on without drawing conclusions or having opinions of them, right? Because if that's the case... Paladin, Bard isn't really reporting. At all. In fact, the post you linked to is actually pretty useful.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that "reporting" post actually gave me a slight townread on Bard because it brought us solidly out of RVS, made me realize that getting out of RVS is really something town should try to do sooner rather than later, and clearly explained the logic behind his vote (which I think would have flown if the game was much further in.)
...And what I'm trying to say by that is that no, that post is not useless fluff.
NNR: Well, I guess it did help get the game out of RVS, but giving Dan a free pass and not CF7 still didn't seem right and it still doesn't.
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holy shit kill Raikaria day 1 unironically strikes again.
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##Vote Raikaria
Come on
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^What they said
##Unvote ##Vote Raikaria
Fluff posts all over and giving the game a complete handwave without any mention of anything in any degree, we got Satori from Subterranean Mafia making a comeback here. (I don't actually remember what happened apart from me ed1 voting her for overfluff, but whatever)
Bard is fine, my omgus was bad play if you view it as anything other than "lol rvs shenanigans :V", SkyPal calling it kinda scummy and then saying Bard is scummy for voting it is hilariously contradictory and I'd be semi-seriously leaving my vote on him if I wasn't voting Raikaria.
Everyone going "I don't think anyone is mafia yet!" should lower their ed1 expectations and just vote someone. Of course, at this point it should be easier to do so anyway :V
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Also SkyPal, it's never too early to tell people "this is not a setup to ever counterclaim in", there's no reason to actually wait until it's time for people to start claiming. Especially because they need to know BEFORE that time comes :V Also because when nothing else is going on yet, people are more likely to actually notice me saying it.
This isn't actually important, but I felt like saying it
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The last two games, Serela has been dangerously competent and I don't like it.
I can't condone this reasoning because it encourages bad play, which obfuscates scum's position
Not feeling the case on Serela at all, but Bard isn't scum for it.
##Unvote: NekoNekoRex
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
Bardiche's case on Serela may be bad but nothing in any of Bard's posts suggest that he thinks it's bad. Even in the post you accuse of "reporting" he's giving full reasoning as to why he thinks Serela's actions benefit himself as scum.
I should go back and take the first line of this post out but editing is hard even if I'm still writing the post.
Also throwing support if people want to quickwagon anyone that's currently on the "Not voting" list.
I for one support Serela's notion to try and keep the conversation level above a competency threshold.
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It's too early to be witty
NekoNekoRex (1): Cheez8
ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Sky_Paladin (3): Raikaria, NekoNekoRex, Zakeri
PX (1): Mitsuki
Serela (2): Bardiche, Schezo
Bardiche (1): Sky_Paladin
Raikaria (2): PX, Serela
Not voting: O4rfish, CF7
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
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Disclaimer: I hate day 1.
Skypaladin makes a case on Bardiche that isn't solid, and backs it up with Actiondan being wrong d1?
##Vote: Skypaladin
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1 - Well, Serela totally did OMGUS me. That is actually scummy except it's so early in the game I don't really think it's useful.
2 - Bard jumping on Serela for it seems opportunistic. Then when Cheez called Bard on it, she distanced herself with some reporting here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073048.html#msg1073048). I'd vote for Bard at this stage as a serious vote because she only added in her reasoning for voting (and questioned her own vote) when challenged. What.
....
I think the backpedaling and two report-type posts are the scummiest things so far. Gotta go~
I'm gonna echo what everyone else said here and say 'what'?
So Serela's RVS 'OMGUS' vote was scummy. Bardiche calling that out is also scummy for being 'opportunistic' [Which by extension is saying that you calling Serela out on the vote is scummy], despite it being very, very ED1, and there not exactly being much else to go onto.
Then he votes Bard, only to say this at the end:
'
'I think the backpedaling and two report-type posts are the scummiest things so far. Gotta go~'
So why aren't you voting for the people who did those? I don't think Bardiche's actions fall under either of these.
^What they said
##Unvote ##Vote Raikaria
Fluff posts all over and giving the game a complete handwave without any mention of anything in any degree, we got Satori from Subterranean Mafia making a comeback here. (I don't actually remember what happened apart from me ed1 voting her for overfluff, but whatever)
Bard is fine, my omgus was bad play if you view it as anything other than "lol rvs shenanigans :V", SkyPal calling it kinda scummy and then saying Bard is scummy for voting it is hilariously contradictory and I'd be semi-seriously leaving my vote on him if I wasn't voting Raikaria.
Everyone going "I don't think anyone is mafia yet!" should lower their ed1 expectations and just vote someone. Of course, at this point it should be easier to do so anyway :V
Appealing to meta is fine except I don't think I was even in Subterrainian Mafia. :/
And yeah I've been fluffy but most of my posts were RVS shens or me saying 'I'mma sleep now'. Now I'm slightly less fluffy.
I do agree on your final statement, however, we're not going to get anything done by doing nothing people.
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So, PX suddenly appears and votes Raikaria, without commenting on anything else, for what I have to assume (because it wasn't explained) saying that he needs to do stuff tomorrow, when I said EXACTLY THE SAME and nobody suspected me??? Wow. It's super opportunistic.
Schezo also commented on it among the same lines even if he didn't switch his vote, which is scummy but not as scummy as what PX did since he's commented on other things. Still, he voted Serela at random without giving reasoning for it at a time when he was supposed to do so, and he didn't vote whoever made that "great case" he mentioned, which would be the logical thing to do. He's scummy, but not as much as PX.
I don't think Serela's scummy for voting Raikaria though, because he's Serela. Note than I'm not giving him a free pass, I'm just using different criteria for everyone.
I'm keeping my vote where it is, I just happened to make a RVS vote on the same guy I want to vote seriously right now.
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Also I like how people ignore the questions I've asked to them. They're serious questions which I want a reply for.
(I asked stuff to CF7 and Dan)
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Tbh, i don't like Schezo's posts. Pretty much zero actual content. RVS vote, another RVS vote, and jump-vote on Serela.
##Vote Schezo
Also I like how people ignore the questions I've asked to them. They're serious questions which I want a reply for.
(I asked stuff to CF7 and Dan)
I'm not sure what is there to answer. I'm going to sleep and say that i hope you don't lynch someone while i sleep. Because pretty much anything can happen in mafia game.
P.S. Today is my grandmother's birthday, so i'll be quite busy during the day and will be back in ~6-7 hours.
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Dan, I think it's time to vote someone other than yourself.
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I call Raikaria out for doing literally nothing and you want to shit talk me when you at least asked questions today. Then you think I should vote the person I agree with. Jesus fucking Christ Mitsuki.
CF7 what makes my RVS votes different from hmm everyone else's in the game?
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I didn't think that was you agreeing with someone, but rather the opposite. Maybe you should try to clarify things better next time because what's obvious for you might not be obvious for other people.
Why did you say nothing about PX, then? He hadn't even posted.
Also, why did you vote Serela back then?
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I call Raikaria out for doing literally nothing.
Hey man timezones and I wanted to not be the guy who kick-started everything with some crazy theory for once.
Although Mitsuki's 2nd latest post leaves me a little 0_o.
Don't much like CF7's reason against Schezo either. Right now there's two real options; actually quicklynch Sky_Paladin, which is an awful idea, or keep fooling around with semi-RVS while attempting to make something happen. I don't think Schezo has done anything wrong worth biting his head off over. Not yet at least.
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Hey man timezones and I wanted to not be the guy who kick-started everything with some crazy theory for once.
"Hey man I don't want to be the guy who gets us out of RVS."
Right now there's two real options; actually quicklynch Sky_Paladin, which is an awful idea, or keep fooling around with semi-RVS while attempting to make something happen.
"We either do something that's a bad idea or stick around in RVS. :D"
Ladies and gentlemen:
1) Blatant admission that he doesn't want RVS to end. He says literally he does not want to kickstart things (crazy theories or no, kickstarting the game is good), and that the alternative to "fooling around with semi-RVS" is a terrible idea. Therefore, he considers fooling around in semi-RVS to be at least a better idea than lynching Sky_Paladin right now.
2) Presentation of a false dichotomy. There's a third, very real possibility: Don't fool around and hunt for the scums. People have been doing this. Votes have been going out and posts analyzed. RVS has been over and the time for tomfoolery is past.
3) His only content post before that is dissecting Sky_Paladin's post. Yawn. People've done that and you add nothing original to the flavour. If you want to "produce content", please comment on less covered areas.
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
Other noteworthy things imo:
- Sky_Paladin's case on me is, indeed, bullshit. However, for all that, I don't think he's the scummiest around because it took Genuine Effort to make that case.
- Serela is still scummy for OMGUS vote and then backpedaling on it. However, I consider it less worse than Raikaria's cavalier attitude. Serela being this helpful is scary however, mostly he's the one that needs the helpful advice.
- People need to vote more. :V
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Dude, you voteparked me in the last game for my crazy theory.
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Dude, you voteparked me in the last game for my crazy theory.
There's a difference between "crazy theory start off game and get out of RVS" and "crazy theory for the entiriety of D1".
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Ladies and gentlemen:
1) Blatant admission that he doesn't want RVS to end. He says literally he does not want to kickstart things (crazy theories or no, kickstarting the game is good), and that the alternative to "fooling around with semi-RVS" is a terrible idea. Therefore, he considers fooling around in semi-RVS to be at least a better idea than lynching Sky_Paladin right now.
2) Presentation of a false dichotomy. There's a third, very real possibility: Don't fool around and hunt for the scums. People have been doing this. Votes have been going out and posts analyzed. RVS has been over and the time for tomfoolery is past.
3) His only content post before that is dissecting Sky_Paladin's post. Yawn. People've done that and you add nothing original to the flavour. If you want to "produce content", please comment on less covered areas.
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
1: Semi-RVS. By that I mean we throw things around to get somewhere. We're beat the Sky_Paladin Horse as much as we can until he returns to counter-argue. No, we should not immediately quicklynch someone D1. In fact doing so is a terrible idea, even more terrible than sticking in 'semi-RVS' where we may get some more leads and such. I don not want to push us out of RVS because there is a very nasty habit of the person who does this being the lynch victim. I'd like to survive past Day 1 to improve my latergame play thank you. Which as last game showed is pretty weak.
2: There isn't much 'scumhunting' that in my opinion could have been done on the matter of where we were. It felt pretty much like a dead end until Sky returned to address points. And perhaps something would happen which could spur a new line of scumhunting. Hell, my suggestion itself seems to have succeeded in this. Well done me and Bardiche.
3: Excuse me for discussing the only piece of relevant content at the time, even if other people have discussed it. Would you rather me ignore it? By the way, I commented on the Schezo v Mitsuki happenings just before your own post. I don't know if it cut yours or whatever, but that had not happened at the time of my first *content* post.
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Schezo also commented on it among the same lines even if he didn't switch his vote, which is scummy but not as scummy as what PX did since he's commented on other things. Still, he voted Serela at random without giving reasoning for it at a time when he was supposed to do so, and he didn't vote whoever made that "great case" he mentioned, which would be the logical thing to do. He's scummy, but not as much as PX.
massive reading comprehension fail compounding on itself to become even worse
I'm not physically capable of understanding why you couldn't see that he was sheeping Bard's case on Serela. :C Since the comment of "great case" was followed by VOTING THE PERSON THE CASE WAS ON, it clearly wasn't sarcastic ;_; Becoming confused and going "The comment was sarcastic and he should vote the other person, but wait, he's voting serela for no reason, I don't get it?" makes no sense because the reason is right there. And then you call him scummy when you don't understand the post is ????
Although, anyway, this wouldn't make any more sense from scum, but I'm too much ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) to ignore and not comment on it
Tbh, i don't like Schezo's posts. Pretty much zero actual content. RVS vote, another RVS vote, and jump-vote on Serela.
Okay this is worse because this person didn't actually have a logic breakdown. "Oh no, Schezo did an RVS vote in RVS and then sheeped a case on Serela that's practically the only thing that actually happened yet". This is also ignoring the fact that Schezo's posts were not actually no-content? He also ignored the Actual Situations that have been starting to occur, which are important to comment on IMO even if you don't actually think the people involved are scum.
Debating whether to voteswap to SkyPal or CF7. I suppose I'll take the road less travelled by.
##Unvote ##Vote CF7
Since Bard actually cased Raikaria (who I'm swapping off) I guess I should respond to it. When Raikaria made a content!post the current reason of voting for handwaving the game became weaker :V Ignoring barely-out-of-RVS wasn't good but it wasn't the worst offense either. It wasn't exactly a strong content!post so they're still a "meh" read but :biggerfishtofry:. The rest of your reasons fall into "overpsychoanalysis that isn't actually indicative of alignment", which if I tried to explain in a different way, I guess would fall somewhere under the line of "Mafia would be easier if we were playing Spot The Asshole... err, Unhelpful, er I don't know what word to use at the end for this situation
cut by post I'm not reading yet
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Serela, CF7 said that Bard's vote was bad, so I don't think what Schezo meant was obvious just from that comment he did. Now I understand, thanks for the clarification.
Bardiche's Raikaria case doesn't seem like a case scum would make, even if I don't think Raikaria is particulary scummy for the reasons pointed out. Bardiche doesn't seem to be faking conviction. He's probably town.
Raikaria, do you have more thoughts on this game other than what you already said?
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I'm really tired but this is the first chance I've had to get to the thread since this morning. As you can clearly see my post was a work-in-progress; I posted my conclusion and voted before I'd finished going through everything. I didn't finish and I won't have time to now. I figured I should post even an incomplete rough draft because it was better than nothing.
Anyway, NNR.
Checks (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073041.html#msg1073041) Bardiche's vote on Serela with 'youdbestbejoking.gif'. Why? Despite my earlier misgivings, Bardiche's vote was quite reasonable.
Vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073088.html#msg1073088) for me for RVS voting Serela. I feel like it's buddying, but everyone should feel free to jump in and tell me why I'm wrong.
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073157.html#msg1073157) needs a response, so I'll omnislash it up.
"wrong player, Skypal. You want the rat-friend." I have no idea what you are talking about.
"since he tends to step it up under 'pressure'" <-- Incorrect. I go afk as this board's meta is to lynch active, contributing players. You watched me do it successfully once as your scumbuddy and once as a serial killer :V
"Anyway as far as the post content, it's half and half I guess." I guess my question is why you would vote for somebody who put in 'half an effort' over somebody who had put in 'no effort'. To be fair, it was half an effort as I wasn't done :D Anyway, you voted for me because ??? and you want to keep the vote there because of meta. If I'm wrong please correct me.
Lastly he technically OMGUS voted CF7 here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072952.html#msg1072952)
Oh one more thing.
Zak, no. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073218.html#msg1073218) Bad, bad kitty. I already said it was an RVS joke vote.
At work I thought about what I had read and changed my mind and wanted to vote for NNR. I'm really tired and can't capacitate the Raikaria situation right now, so ##vote NekoNekoRex. Now I'll admit it's more gut than logic at this stage so when I've had some sleep I'll reread Raikaria.
The main thing I have against Raikaria was I think I read something like, he just wanted to sit on his hands and not do anything until I came back and posted something. Why do you need to wait for me to do anything?
Next thing;
It seems like every game one of Raikaria, Serela, or myself are put up for lynch on day 1. We should form some kind of, I don't know, team 9 meta team and start kicking those lazy snipe bastards that post a one liner with ##vote player that somehow always get wagons going.
Dammit it's 2 am and I'm up at 6.
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Actually I changed my mind.
Raikaria says; (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073218.html#msg1073218)
"I don not want to push us out of RVS because there is a very nasty habit of the person who does this being the lynch victim."
Hey isn't the very first post after you made the 'lets not get out of RVS' post, the one I made saying 'lets get out of RVS?' And then didn't you vote for me? Isn't that...a little bit hypocritical! Extra irony points because you already accused me of being hypocritical this game.
"It felt pretty much like a dead end until Sky returned to address points" No, that's ridiculous. You can't just park your vote on a player and then refuse to consider any other case until that player comes back to defend themselves.
This in addition to Bardiche's quality argument I am happy to vote.
##unvote
##vote Raikaria
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Don't much like CF7's reason against Schezo either. Right now there's two real options; actually quicklynch Sky_Paladin, which is an awful idea, or keep fooling around with semi-RVS while attempting to make something happen. I don't think Schezo has done anything wrong worth biting his head off over. Not yet at least.
Before I continue reading the rest of what happened overnight: No. Our options are "discuss things and notice other players that look like scum or town" and nothing else reasonable. What is the thought of a Paladin quicklynch even doing in your head?
Also, before I get distracted and forget, Schezo has been pretty unhelpful so far. He's written, like, two sentences detailing his opinions so far (not including being disappointed in Raikaria.) The cases against him that go beyond "he hasn't said much" are bad though, because that's really as much of a case as there is to make against him.
Reading further, thank you Bard for being sensible about that Raikaria post before me. Seriously. Raikaria's response isn't instilling confidence either though. Let's see:
1: Semi-RVS. By that I mean we throw things around to get somewhere. We're beat the Sky_Paladin Horse as much as we can until he returns to counter-argue. No, we should not immediately quicklynch someone D1. In fact doing so is a terrible idea, even more terrible than sticking in 'semi-RVS' where we may get some more leads and such. I don not want to push us out of RVS because there is a very nasty habit of the person who does this being the lynch victim. I'd like to survive past Day 1 to improve my latergame play thank you. Which as last game showed is pretty weak.
That's all well and good, but even then, 1) we were already out of RVS for a while, 2) you pushed us out of RVS last game very safely and even basically established yourself as town in the process (at least to me), and 3) why do you keep returning to quicklynching? Nobody has even come remotely close to suggesting a Paladin quicklynch would be good, or even possible. The closest I can find is a single mention by Zakeri that he would support a quickwagon on a Not Voting player (speaking of which, scum points for Zak~)
2: There isn't much 'scumhunting' that in my opinion could have been done on the matter of where we were. It felt pretty much like a dead end until Sky returned to address points. And perhaps something would happen which could spur a new line of scumhunting. Hell, my suggestion itself seems to have succeeded in this. Well done me and Bardiche.
3: Excuse me for discussing the only piece of relevant content at the time, even if other people have discussed it. Would you rather me ignore it? By the way, I commented on the Schezo v Mitsuki happenings just before your own post. I don't know if it cut yours or whatever, but that had not happened at the time of my first *content* post.
Stop pretending Paladin's big post was the only post worth reading at that point. Many people have formed opinions of people based on smaller, earlier posts, and it was not impossible for you to do the same.
Sky cut me but I'll read that later today. For now, Raikaria not even trying to read most people leaves a worse impression on me than NNR.
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
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Hey isn't the very first post after you made the 'lets not get out of RVS' post, the one I made saying 'lets get out of RVS?' And then didn't you vote for me? Isn't that...a little bit hypocritical! Extra irony points because you already accused me of being hypocritical this game.
r u srs
"It felt pretty much like a dead end until Sky returned to address points" No, that's ridiculous. You can't just park your vote on a player and then refuse to consider any other case until that player comes back to defend themselves.
more valid, albiet there really was little else going on at the time iirc
...okay there are actually some better reasons for voting raikaria around than I realized
Might need to reorganize my priorities a bit, but I have to do some IRL stuff for a bit and then have work later, so it'll be delayed some
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Sky_Paladin are you going to explain what inspired your vote on me? There have been comments on it and just brushing them aside won't cut it! It was a major misrepresentation of events.
I don not want to push us out of RVS because there is a very nasty habit of the person who does this being the lynch victim.
I expect Townies to play based on "I want to lynch the scums", and Scum/ITPs to play based on "I don't want to be the lynch victim". Happy with my vote's present location. I disagree that only Sky_Paladin's content was worth posting about at the time, there's plenty of stuff going; Even if you find SP's post the only worthwhile thing to comment on, commenting it while basically regurgitating other people's arguments looks suspect in the face of "I am actively trying to avoid being the lynch victim".
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For anyone who doesn't have a degree in Bardology, commenting on one particular post regurgitating basically everyone's arguments is suspect because it's an act that a right proper Townie would do: You'd comment on something big that's happening. It's suspicious when combined with blatant admission of just doing shit to avoid being the lynch, since it makes me think it wasn't genuinely wanting to get to the bottom of something but just "participating" in the discussion.
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Votecount by the river
ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Sky_Paladin (4): Raikaria, NekoNekoRex, Zakeri, Oarfish
PX (1): Mitsuki
Serela (1): Schezo
Raikaria (4): PX, Bardiche, Sky Paladin, Cheez
Schezo (1) CF7
CF7 (1): Serela
Not voting: No one \o/
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 47 hours remaining.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
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wait that was skypaladin just then and not cf7
It's like I'm drunk ;_; I'm going to go back to what I'm doing and reread this later
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Lastly he technically OMGUS voted CF7 here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072952.html#msg1072952)
How is that an OMGUS when the vote CF7 made was RVS? I think it's scummy that this is part of a case, and not just logic I disagree with.
Paladin's reasons to switch to Raikaria are weak and read as oportunistic as well, since Raikaria's the other main wagon and NNR doesn't have votes. It feels like he's switching so as to avoid his lynch.
Paladin >/= PX, probably, it's hard to compare since the reasons why they're scummy are quite different. I'm not switching since there's already enough pressure on Paladin and no pressure at all on PX when he totally has to get here and post something.
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##Vote: PX
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You know Raikaria, you're still not voting or looking for scum, so how about you get started now?
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Skypaladin that post just made you the most town guy in the game. ya know? I gotta give it to you here, I was pretty iffy because I was voting you but that changed my mind. You're super town not enjoy no more suspension.
*throws dart*
##Vote: PX
Seriously what is this?
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goddam remove not suspension is suspicion
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Also, your points on Sky Palladium are terrible since you basically disregard the fact that he can view a post differently and try to throw his words in a different light to make it look like you have an actual reason.
IS THIS GOOD ENOUGH SHADOWEH?! Day 1 sux like Dux
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I have never played with PX before. Is he usually this lazy?
Schzetczzo: yeah, pretty much. Voting Sky Paladin pressured him into making some decent posts. I can only hope my vote on PX contributes to something as good.
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@Mitsuki
First off, your post looks like you read the game and couldn't come up with anything. Raikaria's post basically looked like "The game started? K cya later"
As for opportunistic, of course it is. You have to lower your standards and vote anything that moves in Early Day 1, otherwise the game wouldn't go anywhere unless someone really scum slips
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PX, would you say that my vote on you was scummy?
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Not particularly at the moment
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I expect Townies to play based on "I want to lynch the scums", and Scum/ITPs to play based on "I don't want to be the lynch victim".
You know, there are plenty of town roles that do not want to be lynched. That is horrible and flawed logic. Especially during Day 1, where town power roles which have the potential to find scum certainly would not want to be lynched.
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You know Raikaria, you're still not voting or looking for scum, so how about you get started now?
I am voting Sky_Paladin, actually. And give me a chance, I'm not at my PC 24/7. I warned you guys before the game even started that my activity would be lower this game.
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PX, what do you think of people other than Raikaria?
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Raikaria, do you have more thoughts on this game other than what you already said?
Other than previously stated? Well, I'm not particularly liking Bard for his logic that 'only scum would want to live', as that is also a stance which a town PR such as a Cop/Doc/Watcher/ect/ect would take. Bard's convenient omitting of that is not good. This is thoughts prior to me actually having time to actually think about things. Which is happening below.
For anyone who doesn't have a degree in Bardology, commenting on one particular post regurgitating basically everyone's arguments is suspect because it's an act that a right proper Townie would do: You'd comment on something big that's happening. It's suspicious when combined with blatant admission of just doing shit to avoid being the lynch, since it makes me think it wasn't genuinely wanting to get to the bottom of something but just "participating" in the discussion.
So... you're voting me for doing something that a townie would do? And then suggesting we actually talk about other things as well and not tunnel because it's D1 and who knows where that would lead us? I like to respond to ED1 wagons with 'hey guys we're not quicklynching right now'. I do this every game.
OK. So you've conveniently forgetting a Town PR would want to live, and voting me for doing something you even admit is town?
Forget my prior vote. Bard's case is awful and dosen't hold up. Especially c ombined with him accusing me of only talking about Sky_Paladin when literally the post before his I commented on Schezo and Mitsuki.
"It felt pretty much like a dead end until Sky returned to address points" No, that's ridiculous. You can't just park your vote on a player and then refuse to consider any other case until that player comes back to defend themselves.
I direct you to me commenting on Schezo v Mitsuki at the top of this page. I hardly refused to consider any other case. That post proves this statement false. There WAS no other case for me to consider besides yours, which there was no point argueing about more until you returned, Mistuki/Schezo's goings-on which I'd just commented on, and my own case, which I was in the process of refuting.
Cheez, I quickly 'established' myself as town through a counter-claim, which cannot be trusted in this setup. In most games I start discussion, become heavily involved, and someone heavily involved gets lynched. Together with my lack of free time this game compared to usual, and me wanting to actually get later in the game so I can improve my later play, I want to take a bit of a backsteat D1 for once, especially as this seems like the prime tactic for getting out of Day 1.
And I'm always curious of quicklynches ED1. Look at pretty much every game. It's paranoia.
Well, since you all seem to be begging for my reads and such:
PX: Uh... he's not actually doing anything. People want to call me out for not contributing? What about PX?
Bardiche: Part 1 of his case on me is cornerstoned with me focusing on Sky_Paladin's case, and parroting others, thus providing 'fake content'. This is fine and all... except the post before his I spoke about something else. Then he has a go at me being cautious about being lynched Day 1, writing it off as something that is a scum playstyle, when, especially Day 1, he forgets that many town power roles would primarily want to avoid the noose to survive to N1 so they can get a report. These two things together make me very suspicious of Bardiche.
Sky_Paladin: Aside from his awful first post-RVS post which I have already dissected, there's his 'refuse to consider any other case until that player comes back to defend themselves.' line despite my post about the events around Mitsuki and Schezo [And CF7]. Also he calls Bardiche's argument 'quality' when it's not. Reinforcement?
Cheez: 'For now, Raikaria not even trying to read most people leaves a worse impression on me than NNR.' - Sigh. Do I have to go through this again? I stated a dislike for CF7's case on Schezo, I commented on the events around Schezo and Mitsuki.
Mitsuki - I had a bit of a bad taste in my mouth around the time there whole thing happened with Schezo, but it's gone now.
CF7: Not too happy with him because of his 'case' on Schezo, as I mentioned before, but this is not major.
Seriously you three form a conga line of badly reasoned votes.
I'm not sure if I should vote Bard for being the main ringleader with this flawed logic outright ignoring some of my content and the fact that town PR's would want to survive as well, or if I should continue to vote Sky for sheeping and abandoning his own case, in tandem with his prior awful post. PX in my books is also a good vote.
Right now I'm gonna stick with Sky for 'Not me Over me' purposes, but I'll happily vote Bardiche or PX over him right now.
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And I'm always cautious of quicklynches ED1. Look at pretty much every game. It's paranoia.
I am making more typos than usual. Specifically typing the wrong word. I blame time issues.
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Right now I'm gonna stick with Sky for 'Not me Over me' purposes,
LOL.
Bard's convenient omitting of that is not good.
Of course a Town Cop wants to live. But they're not going to be all, "Guys, I'm doing what I can to survive."
So... you're voting me for doing something that a townie would do?
For expressly behaving with a mindset of, "This is what a proper Townie would do." Townies don't worry about acting like Townies, they do.
I like to respond to ED1 wagons with 'hey guys we're not quicklynching right now'. I do this every game.
Right now I'm gonna stick with Sky for 'Not me Over me' purposes,
Hysterical much?
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haven't sleeped yet, but I never make posts when I'm not sleep deprived so nobody should be able to tell anyways.
I didn't like Schezo's cheerlead of Raikaria but I figured it'd be a joke. Nevermind, I guess I misinterpreted that along with everyone else. Still, I also ignored Serela because it's too early for him to be scum yet. PX's vote I missed last time, and sandwiched between the two it seems weird to me (double so now that Schezo didn't actually call him scum). I haven't decided if the town part outweighs the scum part since he should be in the spot that gathers the most heat for the wagon. I'm suspicious and will consider it further.
Ladies and gentlemen:
1) Blatant admission that he doesn't want RVS to end. He says literally he does not want to kickstart things (crazy theories or no, kickstarting the game is good), and that the alternative to "fooling around with semi-RVS" is a terrible idea. Therefore, he considers fooling around in semi-RVS to be at least a better idea than lynching Sky_Paladin right now.
2) Presentation of a false dichotomy. There's a third, very real possibility: Don't fool around and hunt for the scums. People have been doing this. Votes have been going out and posts analyzed. RVS has been over and the time for tomfoolery is past.
3) His only content post before that is dissecting Sky_Paladin's post. Yawn. People've done that and you add nothing original to the flavour. If you want to "produce content", please comment on less covered areas.
This whole case, especially with the paraphrasing before where I quoted sounds like opportunism to me. Consider me the opposite of sold.
Serela's 96 is good and also helps me from having to analyze things thanks to being correct.
Zak, no. Bad, bad kitty. I already said it was an RVS joke vote.
Someone finally acknowledges me, and it's for the line that I said in the same post that I should probably delete.
a fair point for the people voting Raikaria - Rai really does need to stop focusing on the concept of quicklynching. I've played a ton of mafia games on here and I've never seen someone willingly shorten the day by more than a few hours. Even if we have a cop claim, we're addicted to our talking time, and will talk ourselves out of going with the confirmed cop claim just so we can say we spent the entire time considering other possibilities. That said, I'm not sold on Scum Raikaria.
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Oh I'm sorry I'm going to vote for myself out of the two wagons right now. I'm going to make a move which is more likely to get me lynched.
For expressly behaving with a mindset of, "This is what a proper Townie would do."
Well ain't that an assumption and a half about my behavior. That could be applied to anyone. Generally it isn't a good case when you could replace 'Raikaria' with anyone who spoke about Sky-Paladin's initial post.
But you know what. I'll amuse you. You don't think 'Not me over me' out of you and Sky-Paladin, who is also pretty bad right now, is suitable? Fine. You're literally asking for my vote out of the two I consider highest priority then. It would be rude to refuse, and at this point I think both you and Sky are likely to be scum because on your horribly flawed cases [And not just against me, but Sky's initial case as well].
##Unvote
##Vote: Bardiche
And yes Zakeri, I do need to get over my paranoia about quickhammers. But they tend to happen somewhat often where I come from. That's just what I've been around.
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to clearify:
Sky and CF7 are the most suspicious to me. I'm keeping my vote on Sky for now.
As much fun as I'm having pick on Bardiche's cases, I don't have enough evidence to call him scum. He's not a day one lynch to begin with either, especially considering the number of one shot cops I've wasted on him in the past.
Every day one case of Raikaria ends up being about calling him out on the fact that he believes Quicklynches are a thing that ever happens, and the one unique thing about this game's case is that it involves a lot of controlling and manipulation of the meaning behind his words which makes me feel like there's absolutely no positive intention behind the wagon against him.
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It's important to note the difference between chatroom mafia and forum mafia when considering the word's "quick".
Specifically the fact that forums discussion is never "quick".
also I just remembered that I never actually spoke about CF7, mostly because it was just me agreeing with the case Serela made on him and not bothering to mention it out loud. He was also the main reason why I brought up my willingness to quote unquote quicklynch a non-voter.
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Every day one case of Raikaria ends up being about calling him out on the fact that he believes Quicklynches are a thing that ever happens, and the one unique thing about this game's case is that it involves a lot of controlling and manipulation of the meaning behind his words which makes me feel like there's absolutely no positive intention behind the wagon against him.
This is true, and the more I try to write a nuanced post sort of agreeing with it, the more I feel I just have to flatly agree with it.
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Raikaria's latest posts make me think that this is town!Raikaria, gut.
Zakeri also seems to be town, as scum I would expect him to post less and focus more on scumhunting and voting than on clarifying. Also, the easy thing to do would be either suspecting Raikaria or defending him a little bit so as to look townier when he flips. His comments on Raikaria make me think he's town genuinely trying to lead the game to a favorable path according to his point of view. Basically I don't see scum elaborating like that.
From most to least town: Zakeri > Bardiche > Raikaria
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I'll make them a Votecount that they can't refuse
ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Sky_Paladin (2): NekoNekoRex, Zakeri
PX (1): Mitsuki
Serela (1): Schezo
Raikaria (4): PX, Bardiche, Sky_Paladin, Cheez8
Schezo (1): CF7
CF7 (1): Serela
PX (1): O4rfish
Bardiche (1): Raikaria
Not voting: No one
Raikaria is at L-3
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
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Holy what. There are two players named PX?
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holy shit. like damn.
Raikaria I think you've got a fundamentally flawed way of thinking about how to play the game and people don't like that so they lynch you all the time.
You unironically think that town's goal all of the time isn't to get the scum. That's wrong because that's what it always should be. Yes living so they can lynch the scum is a plus but they have to be trying to kill scum first and foremost. To say that it's an omission of fact that town PRs don't also want to live is bonkers when they're going for scum too. Like damn. You're just paranoid and babbling. Umm 47 hours left in the day no one is getting quicklynched.
That isn't the slamdunk case on Bardiche you think it is. It's just omgus but I think you're misdirected town at this point.
Mitsuki so we're clear you think the three people you just listed are town but in order of how strong the reads are?
##Unvote:
Serela shaped up and is doing cool things for cool people. I really like his CF7 vote and would like more content from CF7
##Vote: CF7
I'm just going to say right now I hate SkyPaladin's playstyle.
Like he narrates everything that happens just to make a wall then makes half assed posts while admitting it as such and it's just ugh.
Like man can you just get it all together in a relatively short concise manner?
His vote for Bard and whatever wasn't that great and I can see why people would vote him for that but I'd like another from him before I make up my mind on a read for him.
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Well, since you all seem to be begging for my reads and such:
...
Cheez: 'For now, Raikaria not even trying to read most people leaves a worse impression on me than NNR.' - Sigh. Do I have to go through this again? I stated a dislike for CF7's case on Schezo, I commented on the events around Schezo and Mitsuki.
That's a pretty good read on me you have there. :V
(the previous statement is irrelevant to any cases I may be making)
Anyway, you say your motivation at the moment is to stay alive, but the problem here is that every scum player's motivation is to stay alive. Regardless of anything else, you cannot deny that when you operate under the same guiding principle as a scum player, your actions will look like those of a scum player, especially when there aren't any flips to work with. Even if I try to believe you, it makes it very difficult to keep doubts from bubbling up.
I don't know if my reasoning for my case was clear or not based on what Zak is saying about "Raikaria cases" in general, but my reasons were because Raikaria's actions fit the main thing that I think of when I think of scum play: picking and choosing the cases they want to make, and either ignoring or dismissing posts they don't wish to address. Mostly the second part since avoiding forming unnecessary opinions also plays a role. Larger posts tend to be easier to find flaws in, and harder to avoid discussing, which fit Raikaria's behavior a little too well. Raikaria's more recent behavior is different though, so I'm at least going to rethink this soon. May or may not change things.
Bardiche's case that Raikaria is scum for looking like a textbook townie seems kind of similar but just makes me scratch my head instead. Zak, please tell me you're not considering this or the quicklynch thing the "main" case against Raikaria.
I should try to make a paragraph in my next post that doesn't include the word "Raikaria". I didn't manage in this post and it really seems bad. Hopefully having real time to spare later today will help with that.
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CF7 what makes my RVS votes different from hmm everyone else's in the game?
Was your Serela vote a RVS vote as well?
Hm... Actually looking at Zak i find him to be quite scummy.
Not feeling the case on Serela at all, but Bard isn't scum for it.
By the way, by Serela's case, do you mean Rai's case?
This whole case, especially with the paraphrasing before where I quoted sounds like opportunism to me. Consider me the opposite of sold.
Sky and CF7 are the most suspicious to me. I'm keeping my vote on Sky for now.
Bard case is bad, me and Sky_P are the most suspicious (btw i'm the most suspicious for my vote on Schezo), but he's not willing to vote for Bard, because:
As much fun as I'm having pick on Bardiche's cases. I don't have enough evidence to call him scum. He's not a day one lynch to begin with either, especially considering the number of one shot cops I've wasted on him in the past.
Which is just plain awesome reasoning. I'm not sure if this is supposed to be serious or not. And yet, the only reason he's voting for Sky_P is this.
I can't condone this reasoning because it encourages bad play, which obfuscates scum's position
Which is Sky_P's RVS vote.
So.
##Unvote
##Vote Zak
Cut by stuff.
Can someone point me to Serela's case on me, because i don't see any? Unless you mean this?
Okay this is worse because this person didn't actually have a logic breakdown. "Oh no, Schezo did an RVS vote in RVS and then sheeped a case on Serela that's practically the only thing that actually happened yet". This is also ignoring the fact that Schezo's posts were not actually no-content? He also ignored the Actual Situations that have been starting to occur, which are important to comment on IMO even if you don't actually think the people involved are scum.
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CF7, I think we misunderstood the exact same thing about Schezo's Serela vote. You can read what he and Serela replied to me, you'll see that Schezo was sheeping Bardiche's Serela case.
Mitsuki so we're clear you think the three people you just listed are town but in order of how strong the reads are?
The townreads I listed are in order, from towniest to least town (but still townie).
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Raikaria I think you've got a fundamentally flawed way of thinking about how to play the game and people don't like that so they lynch you all the time.
You unironically think that town's goal all of the time isn't to get the scum. That's wrong because that's what it always should be. Yes living so they can lynch the scum is a plus but they have to be trying to kill scum first and foremost. To say that it's an omission of fact that town PRs don't also want to live is bonkers when they're going for scum too. Like damn. You're just paranoid and babbling. Umm 47 hours left in the day no one is getting quicklynched.
That isn't the slamdunk case on Bardiche you think it is. It's just omgus but I think you're misdirected town at this point.
Actually I only have the 'PR's should focus on survival' thing for D1. A PR who dies D1 is no good to anyone. A PR who is mislynched D2 onwards can at least give out a report with their claim which is then proven upon their flip, or a Doc may have saved someone, or such. Bard made a blanket statement that if you are worried about survival you are scum, but I do not think this true, at least for Day 1.
I think Bard's case is flawed and he openly ignored one of my posts when he initially made it. Also some of his logic is outright awful IMO. I don't think it's OMGUS, it's a bad argument whoever it is directed at, as I stated a few posts ago when I said 'When your argument still makes sense when you substitute 'Raikaria' with anyone else who commented on Sky's first post, it's not a good case'.
I've already stated that my quicklynch thing I always come out with is paranoia, but that dosen't stop me coming out with it until it's too late Q_Q
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But still, I shall take it on board that my general opinion about D1 PR's and such is generally seen as a scum opinion, and use this for my future games.
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Why did you say nothing about PX, then? He hadn't even posted.
Quoting this question to remind Schezo that I'm still waiting for an answer.
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I am behind. full day of school.
After dinner + tutoring I'll be free
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Everyone is terrible. Not only simpletons, airheads, mooks, and Mafia initiates play this game, but sometimes it seems like it.
I really don't have the time right now to dig through the layers of CFScummy's attack on Zak to see if it's legit, but I will do that sometime soon.
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Spent all day either having Zombie Brain Syndrome or being asleep, so I need to catch up.
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Okay back from work, time to review.
My opinion is that Schezo's #130 hits all the nails on the head, although I mean this more on playstyles and not on actual slot alignment reads (e.g. I don't actually have a townread on raikaria like him, just my previous opinion of :biggerfish:)
Mitsuki is townhunting but I can't recall any scumhunting apart from poking PX for being low-presence. It's easy for scum to call townies town, can you explain all/any scum suspicious you have on people?
O@rfish feels like they're coasting by on small pokes here and there whilst basically not doing anything :C I know they're new, but O@rfish!Snidely talked a decent amount, even if everything I remember him saying on D1 was insane. That last post is "everyone sucks, eventually I'll look at CF7's post on Zak I guess". So, you think CF7 is scummy? This is the first time you've mentioned him I think! I wish I could ask why but people who don't like CF7 are sheeping my case as to why (this is really unusual, I'm not sure how to react)
Whilst I'm on the subject, Zak is adorable!town and no we're not lynching him (at least not today, it's not a -solid- townread but I mean it's only partway through d1 so yeah)
re:CF7's case on him
Which is just plain awesome reasoning.
This is about his opinion on Bard, and it's fine- Zak's saying that even if he doesn't like Bard's case at all, he doesn't have any real reasons to think he's scum either, plus he says that he's bad at reading Bard in general. I'm really bad at reading Huhwhat so I can sympathize >> Prims2good.
But yeah that's not bad. I'd have to reread Zak again to think about whether the SkyPal vote reason is valid or not but even if it is I don't think it's enough to constitute much.
Also yes that is indeed my case on you, CF7. It's about basically the only post you'd made :V Now there's this one too, but, it's basically just about not being able to interpret Zak's posts (apart from the SkyPal part that I haven't reread enough to address) so I don't really see any reason to think you're town yet
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Everyone is terrible. Not only simpletons, airheads, mooks, and Mafia initiates play this game, but sometimes it seems like it.
I really don't have the time right now to dig through the layers of CFScummy's attack on Zak to see if it's legit, but I will do that sometime soon.
Ha-ha. And your level of play was just plain undeniably awesome? I just can't see it for some reason. Maybe you're ninja too...
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Tight Lips Votecount
ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Sky_Paladin (2): NekoNekoRex, Zakeri
PX (2): Mitsuki, Oarfish
Raikaria (4): PX, Bardiche, Sky_Paladin, Cheez8
CF7 (2): Serela, Schezo
Bardiche (1): Raikaria
Zakeri (1): CF7
Not voting: No one \o/
Raikaria is at L-3
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 31 hours remaining.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
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Nothing else happened? I'm disappointed.
Mitsuki is townhunting but I can't recall any scumhunting apart from poking PX for being low-presence. It's easy for scum to call townies town, can you explain all/any scum suspicious you have on people?
You don't recall correctly. While it's true that it's unlikely for me to find much stuff scummy D1, I did way more than that. When you read it I can explain better if there's some point you don't agree with/don't understand.
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Agreeing with Mitsuki, there's not exactly been anything that's happened since my last post which I can comment or or looks that scummy. I kinda got everything I had to say out in my previous posts.
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Let's pretend I never made that last post and say I spent pretty much 24 hours sleeping. Or doing important shit.
...Touhoumon counts as important shit to me screw you.
I'm actually for reals reading the game this time. I think bard is town without having even seen Page 4 though, he's just super townie.
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I'm actually still really busy so I don't have time to go into detail, but at this point the only people I haven't found too scummy so far are Bard, Cheez, and Serela, and Dan I guess but Dan hasn't posted much either.
Really I could find something to complain about everyone else at this point.
But I really don't have time to clarify much atm so I'll get to it later.
this is a pretty shitty broad post I know but I at least want to have something to say instead of more "I'm reading but I'm not going to actually post anything because I got busy again (and it's not touhoumon this time I swear)"
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I'm still inclined to keep my vote on skypal because I still haven't liked a single post he's made so far.
Raikaria's not much better either but I know fuckall what to think about him until I have more time, he's a weird case.
Oarfish, Mitsuki, and PX all looked like they were trying to lurk as hard as they could imo, for different reasons I don't have time to divulge into, but their low-content posts and low posting rates have been getting on my nerves.
PS: "Cheez" was the "rat-friend" I was referring to. It's a pun.
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Actually wait I went back to skim because Oarfish was bugging me and it turns out he hasn't made a single post that isn't a 2-line shitpost so far this game
##Unvote
##Vote: O4rfish
Get rekt
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PX is a close second but he has one non-shitpost so he's at least a degree better.
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Mitsuki isn't nearly as bad as the other two but that ridiculous "no mafs here" attitude at the start is just right out.
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Before you ask me about Dan, I'm not voting him because he hasn't actually made any shitposts, mostly because he hasn't posted at all.
Which is bad, obviously, but not as bad as pretending you actually post but not actually posting anything good
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That's an awesome string of scum posts you got there would you like to add any more before I vore you?
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Hmmm that's a great autocorrect. No I won't be eating you but voting you.
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NNR, isn't it a little late for a vote on a player nobody has yet commented on? Note that I'm talking about the vote, and not the reasoning. New reasoning is always fine.
I think you should be considering current wagons. There's just a day and three hours left.
Considering the votecount right now (PX has two votes and Paladin only one) it's time to switch my vote, ##Unvote
##Vote: Sky Paladin
Also that's one of the best autocorrects I've ever seen.
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NNR, isn't it a little late for a vote on a player nobody has yet commented on?
I was going to say "no", but then again MotK often has consolidation issues d1 >> Still, "over 24 hours left" is still plenty of time left IMO for a new wagon to be brought up to consider. Whether or not NNR's poststring is worthy of delicious devourings is something I'll have to look at later since I have an early workshift and gotta go in a minute
Anyway Mitsuki is it that hard to just give a brief go-over of who you think might be scum :C I don't expect a dissertation or anything but just like, at the very least just a list of who they are if you'd rather I reread your previous posts for the "why"
I mean even if I reread all your posts there's also the part where I'm sure a decent amount of stuff has happened since the last significant ones that could have realistically impacted opinions!
But yeah gotta go, poof
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Schezo not liking my posts isn't anything new.
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Then again neither is "Schezo having good posts"
Let's analyze his one good post this game so far... (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073459.html#msg1073459) no wait, it's just ranting and a sheepvote for CF7. Never mind.
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I keep rereading the thread to find where Schezo actually hunts scum and I just can't find it
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I think NNR's comment on Oarfish is legit. Lynching lurkers would be a refreshing breath of change that I wouldn't mind indulging in. Raikaria trying to retcon the reason I'm voting him and going OMGUS isn't too alluring to move off of yet though.
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We're going to have trouble consolidating at this rate and I won't have enough time to make sense of the situation properly before deadline. Sigh.
Serela, is it that hard to go back and read my posts? Anyways I'm not asking you to do so, I'm telling you that if you want to say that I haven't scumhunted you should actually know what I've done in the first place.
But here you are. Paladin > PX (not as bad as before) = Schezo (waiting for him to answer the question I asked him).
I'd rather lynch Paladin than a lurker.
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Bardiche, imagine that we're lynching a lurker and you decide on who that is. Who would be your choice?
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I called CF7 scummy as a joke because his meta is pretty scummy, but also because his post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073463.html#msg1073463) looked scummy at first glance.
His case on Zak involves some egregious multiquoting and recharacterization without an actual statement. The fact that he does this, combined with the fact that his case hinges on some shaky details, makes him extra scummy.
Digging into the details, he says Zak is suspicious of him only because he voted for Schezo, but he neglects to mention how the reasoning for his Schezo vote here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073318.html#msg1073318) was hypocritical at best.
Then he characterizes Zak as having reason to vote Bard but not actually voting Bard. I think you can disagree with someone's case without having cause to vote them. The reason I am making a different choice is that investigating CF7's case on Zak involves spending more time than the case took to make, by design, which seems extremely scummy.
Then CF7 implies Zak is scummy for casing Sky based on an RVS vote for Serela. The thing about RVS is that it is random. If you provide an actual reason for voting, as Sky did, it cannot be brushed off as RVS, and casing someone based on a vote like that is totally reasonable, especially since we're still in day one.
If we're voting lurkers, I'll vote PX or Dan. Otherwise,
##Unvote. Vote: CF7
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OK, back from classes. AND STUFF HAPPENED.
By and large I agree with NNR. Except the 'Bard is townie' part. I think Bard's case on me is really flawed. And as I keep stateing, when you can take the cornerstone of one's case upon someone, and replace the name of the person they are voting for with 3~4 different people, and it is still valid, it is not a good case. Also slightly worried that Bard is soft-defending Sky and Sky then 5 mins after he makes a case on NNR flips over and assures everyone Bard's case is good. That said it's far too soon to throw around any serious accusation of scumbuddying.
I am somewhat concerned by the people not posting much, but PX still stands out as by far and away the worst of them, since his posts have almost no content at all and are just 'I'mma vote this guy k bi'.
If we're going for a lurker lynch I'd rather lynch PX for his lack of content despite posting.
Little confused about the final point in O4rfish's post.
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IS omgus automatically bad?
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=1073027;topic=16369.30;last_msg=1073695) stalk of celery provides a good reason for voting Sky Paladin, but people have been calling it OMGUS and saying that Serela is scummy for it.
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Let me resummarize my final point in that other post.
The last two games, Serela has been dangerously competent and I don't like it.
##vote Serela
Also (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.ph...sg1072913) this post kind of looks weird.
Zachary: That was scummy. *chk chk* *points vote at Sky*
CF7: No, YOU'RE scummy. *chk chk* *points vote at Zak*
Me: No, YOU'RE scummy. *chk chk* *points vote at CF7*
CF7 implied Zak's case on Sky was scummy because Sky was in RVS. I said that Zak was justified in voting Sky on it, and when CF7 called Zak scummy, that was scummy of CF7.
Of course, there are other things going on in this thread which are also voteworthy, and it will take some time to unravel everything.
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By the way, by Serela's case, do you mean Rai's case?
No, I meant Bard's case on Serela, hence why I followed up with "Bard's not scum for (making the case on Serela)".
but he's not willing to vote for Bard, because:
Quote from: Randomly a Catkeri on February 24, 2014, 16:13:48
As much fun as I'm having pick on Bardiche's cases. I don't have enough evidence to call him scum. He's not a day one lynch to begin with either, especially considering the number of one shot cops I've wasted on him in the past.
Which is just plain awesome reasoning. I'm not sure if this is supposed to be serious or not.
This is in fact completely serious, and I realize it is kind of shit logic but you should also try to consider that it's the truth.
And yet, the only reason he's voting for Sky_P is this.
Quote from: Randomly a Catkeri on February 23, 2014, 23:08:45
I can't condone this reasoning because it encourages bad play, which obfuscates scum's position
Which is Sky_P's RVS vote.
Damn. I did catch that I didn't put down reasoning for why I didn't like CF7 but I forgot to do the same for Sky_Pal.
The main point was that the case on Bardiche was grasping. Sky's playstyle is beneficial for scum since, especially during day one when people have no choice but to phone it in, people just want to assume that the content in a post as big as #69 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073152.html#msg1073152) is alright since it's not worth it to look in depth this early, but the case he made against Bardiche was glaringly wrong and seemed to be trying to keep the heat off of himself.
He also fails to follow up Bard's response to the case, and sweeps it under the rug with a case on NNR which quickly switches back to Kill Rai Day One (Specifically for the same reason why I don't buy into the Raikaria Case).
Please let me know if I need to go back and justify anything else because one of my major weaknesses is not realizing that I've forgotten to say things I've though out loud.
My reasons were because Raikaria's actions fit the main thing that I think of when I think of scum play: picking and choosing the cases they want to make, and either ignoring or dismissing posts they don't wish to address.
This is actually a good point and one I missed in your posts. In fact, this is the same point I'm slamming Sky for right now.
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Honestly, O4rfish, what a pile of bullshit (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073679.html#msg1073679) you posted here. I don't even to repsond to this.
But i guess i'll do it.
I called CF7 scummy as a joke because his meta is pretty scummy, but also because his post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073463.html#msg1073463) looked scummy at first glance.
My meta is scummy? What are you talking about? IIRC the one and only time i was playing as mafia here, was in last anonymous mafia. So how my meta can be scummy?
His case on Zak involves some egregious multiquoting and recharacterization without an actual statement. The fact that he does this, combined with the fact that his case hinges on some shaky details, makes him extra scummy.
I decided to make a somewhat quote heavy post, because it was kind of hard to do it overwise.
Digging into the details, he says Zak is suspicious of him only because he voted for Schezo, but he neglects to mention how the reasoning for his Schezo vote here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073318.html#msg1073318) was hypocritical at best.
If you haven't noticed i tried to start a discussion and it wasn't pointless.
All Schezo's posts up to that point. Role confirmation (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072773.html#msg1072773), first RVS vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072893.html#msg1072893), second RVS vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072922.html#msg1072922), his Serela vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073112.html#msg1073112) where he incidentally called Bard's case on Serela great.
So called great case.
##Vote: Serela
OMGUS? Scum. Not even joking.
When i asked Schezo if his Serela's vote was a RVS vote too, he didn't answer it. Now continuing with Schezo's posts. Zero content post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073129.html#msg1073129) and more zero content (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073181.html#msg1073181)
So yeah. Hypocritical. At best.
Then he characterizes Zak as having reason to vote Bard but not actually voting Bard. I think you can disagree with someone's case without having cause to vote them. The reason I am making a different choice is that investigating CF7's case on Zak involves spending more time than the case took to make, by design, which seems extremely scummy.
If you're saying that someone's case is bad, and Zak said that Bard's case on Rai is bad or to quote Zak: "This whole case, especially with the paraphrasing before where I quoted sounds like opportunism to me. Consider me the opposite of sold." Either i'm reading things differently, or that's like calling Bard not scummy for his case and then saying, that Bard is actually scummy.
Then CF7 implies Zak is scummy for casing Sky based on an RVS vote for Serela. The thing about RVS is that it is random. If you provide an actual reason for voting, as Sky did, it cannot be brushed off as RVS, and casing someone based on a vote like that is totally reasonable, especially since we're still in day one.
And your final point. Where's an actual reason? It's a RVS vote. It's a joke a vote. And it's random. I'm not sure about you, but making your vote as a serious vote, based on other's player RVS vote is total bullshit. Also it might be somewhat okay, but at that time Sky_P was the wagon. That sounds like opportunism to me.
So... So, i guess thanks for making yourself look scummier than you were before. Even scummier than Zak.
##Unvote
##Vote O4rfish
Cut by Zak's post which i'll read in a bit.
-
IS omgus automatically bad?
Nope. In fact with how Day One has to work, I'd say it inevitable.
Rather, OMGUS is bad, but it's only really OMGUS if the person doesn't provide any reasoning besides "But I'm town." and any other use of the term is misappropriated.
As for lynching lurkers, PX is clearly the worst. The only thing he posted worth reading is a defense for Sky talking about how people are always going to look opportunist one day one.
I think NNR's comment on Oarfish is legit.
I went through Oarfish's posts to find one or two examples where NNR's comment of 2-line shitposts didn't apply and only found two (They were still two-lines but yeah)
Cut by oh, wow you're already flooding my Appeal to Emotion sensors, I want to switch my vote for that alone, I mean cool down it's only Day one.
Still there were plenty of other people that could apply too (PX, Dan), one of which he made a better case on a handful of posts later (Schezo).
I didn't think of it when responding to CF7 but yeah Oarfish's point that a Reason is a Reason regardless of what stage the game is at is true. It doesn't matter since I'm beyond holding him to that point, though.
-
That third to last line is suppose to be the last line I don't know how it interupted there, bad cursor.
-
My meta is scummy? What are you talking about? IIRC the one and only time i was playing as mafia here, was in last anonymous mafia. So how my meta can be scummy?
Obviously he meant that you're play in general looks scummy, even as town, which is why he talks about saying it as a joke. He's also leading the post into explaining his case on you.
Either i'm reading things differently, or that's like calling Bard not scummy for his case and then saying, that Bard is actually scummy.
The word you're looking for is "Misguided". People can be both Town and Wrong at the same time.
I did say that Bard's case on Raikaria was enough to make me suspicious, but that suspicion isn't big enough that I would consider it over Sky or You right now. It's not even big enough to consider over people who aren't providing content to begin with, like PX and Dan.
Already gave my two cents on that last point in my last post.
-
Wherever there's opportunity, the votecount will be there.
ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Sky_Paladin (2): Zakeri, Mitsuki
Raikaria (4): PX, Bardiche, Sky_Paladin, Cheez8
CF7 (3): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish
Bardiche (1): Raikaria
O4rfish (2): NekoNekoRex, CF7
Not voting:
Raikaria is at L-3
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
You got around 21 and a half houers left.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
-
Hm... Bard has some good ideas. Still his vote on Serela is kind of bad, considering Serela raised a valid point, Sky voted him for it and that's pretty much it. Serela voted back. I think it's just a little misunderstanding, considering Sky haven't posted since that. Plus it is still too early for me to make a decision.
##Unvote for now. Hope you won't turbo lynch someone, while i sleep.
In a later post of yours, you say that Sky was in RVS at the time. In fact, you call Zak scummy for condemning Sky's vote.
But if this is true, then Bard's vote on Serela wouldn't be bad at all!
-
Oarfish is town putting genuine effort right now. CF7's reaction was terrible but I could also see town act like that.
-
In a later post of yours, you say that Sky was in RVS at the time. In fact, you call Zak scummy for condemning Sky's vote.
But if this is true, then Bard's vote on Serela wouldn't be bad at all!
This is actually a super good catch. It's got that "I don't really care about the reasons why I vote for people" feeling down and exposed.
I agree with Mitsuki, but I think it's safe to say the "can also see town acting this way" is just the voice of self-doubt acting up.
It's been a hour now since he said he would respond to my post, which reminds me of how I feel and react to huge posts made by the person I'm voting for when I'm scum, which is to lose all motivation and run away for about 23.5 hours.
With this CF7 just jumped up into biggest fish territory.
##Unvote: Sky_Paladin
##Vote: CF7
-
Then CF7 implies Zak is scummy for casing Sky based on an RVS vote for Serela. The thing about RVS is that it is random. If you provide an actual reason for voting, as Sky did, it cannot be brushed off as RVS, and casing someone based on a vote like that is totally reasonable, especially since we're still in day one.
Seeing as Zakeri highlighted this part I'll re-request that someone explain this because I just get confused attempting to figure out what O4rfish is attempting to say here.
I mean CF7 implies Zak is scummy for Zak thinking Sky is scummy for an RVS vote.
But Sky's vote wasn't RVS so this makes CF7 scum?
I'm not certain if I'm understanding this right.
-
It has to do with the part of the quote in Oarfish's post that oarfish put into italics (I know it's hard to see, I missed it the first time and was just as confused as you)
CF7 was defending Serela from Bardiche for by saying Serela's vote on Sky was justified
CF7 was voting me by saying that my vote on Sky was not justified, even though it was the same reason as Serela's
-
Oarfish is town putting genuine effort right now. CF7's reaction was terrible but I could also see town act like that.
I'm picking apart O4rfish's case, pointing out what's wrong with it, and yet you say he's putting genuine effort. Genuine effort in mislynching me?
In a later post of yours, you say that Sky was in RVS at the time. In fact, you call Zak scummy for condemning Sky's vote.
But if this is true, then Bard's vote on Serela wouldn't be bad at all!
You're twisting my words. Again.
I was not saying that Sky_P was in RVS at that time, i actually said it was misunderstanding.
[/quote]This is actually a super good catch. It's got that "I don't really care about the reasons why I vote for people" feeling down and exposed.
What it has to do with the reasons how i vote for people?
CF7 was voting me by saying that my vote on Sky was not justified, even though it was the same reason as Serela's
Ahem... You voted Sky_P for his joke RVS vote, which he actually confirmed as such here.
"The last two games, Serela has been dangerously competent and I don't like it." <-- this was me patting Serela on the head saying 'good job' and that kind of thing. It's totally a joke.
-
Anyway 1:30 am here and going to sleep.
-
I'm picking apart O4rfish's case, pointing out what's wrong with it, and yet you say he's putting genuine effort. Genuine effort in mislynching me?
uhh
The word you're looking for is "Misguided". People can be both Town and Wrong at the same time.
The rest of the post isn't really worth responding to. Hopefully you'll give the past dozen posts another good lookover after you're more refreshed from the night's rest.
-
Hi guys, I'm sorry I was absent for the last twenty hours or so. My wife has been ill and it was also coincidentally the sixth month memorial of my younger brother's death. I could only scrape a few thirty minute chunks of time together to post and even then I was burning my sleep time. I have a couple hours of non-distracted/fatigued time now, so I'll be going through the thread and putting in a quality post or two.
-
I've reread the thread and have stuff to comment on. I should actually be sleeping but my best friend has told me to meet up tomorrow and if I go I won't be here for the deadline.
I agree on CF7 being scum now that I understand the contradiction Oarfish's pointed out, but I realised that Paladin's contradicted in a similar manner. Let me point it out:
1 - Well, Serela totally did OMGUS me. That is actually scummy except it's so early in the game I don't really think it's useful.
Lastly he technically OMGUS voted CF7 here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072952.html#msg1072952)
Said votes are here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073027.html#msg1073027) and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072952.html#msg1072952), respectively. Before I already pointed out that the way he made NNR's RVS vote part of a case by saying it was OMGUS was scummy, but now it's not just that. In the first quote he says that Serela's RVS vote was an OMGUS, but too early in the game for it to be relevant, while in the second quote he makes an "OMGUS" that ocurred even before in the game (post 28 vs post 40) part of a case. Paladin is clearly making stuff up.
That said,
##Unvote
##Vote: CF7
I'm still kind of debating if the right thing to do morally speaking is pushing Paladin a lot so that he's lynched today or wait to D2. I hate suspecting someone who is going through hardship, because it's giving them something else to worry about.
Since I'm having doubts, I'll go with what I'd usually do if no problem had arisen.
-
Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.
ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Raikaria (4): PX, Bardiche, Sky_Paladin, Cheez8
CF7 (5): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish, Zakeri, Mitsuki
Bardiche (1): Raikaria
O4rfish (2): NekoNekoRex, CF7
Not voting:
CF7 is at L-2
Raikaria is at L-3
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
You got around 17 and a half houers left.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
-
Addressing questions that popped up -
My vote on Serela was RVS. I commented that I thought her post about claiming was weird, but the actual reason for the vote was entirely luls. I thought it was a weird comment because the game just started and already role shenanigans? But I paid it no thought and I don't think Serela was scummy for it.
OK, why a vote on Bardiche? It's kind of long so stick with me.
OMGUS - the first time I heard it was when I voted SB back in AUS mafia. I had to look it up and perhaps my understanding is different to what you know. Here's what I read:
http://mafiawiki.notesmash.org/wiki/OMGUS
OMGUS, or "Oh my god, you suck!" is the common term for a person voting another purely in retaliation for the latter voting the former. That is to say, it's when you vote for someone because they voted for you: "Oh my god, how dare you! You suck!"
OMGUS votes are annoying. They are not necessarily scummy, but they are worthless, since they are voting for a player for reasons other than their scumminess.
If a vote is made in retaliation, but it carries with it an actual case, then it's not necessarily an OMGUS vote. But it is often viewed with greater suspicion than if the vote and case were made before the other player's vote.
If you're town, the best way to avoid OMGUS voting is making sure all your votes have cases backing them. If people accuse you of OMGUS voting, take a step back, look at your case again, and ask yourself, "if the other player stops voting me, will I want to unvote as well?" If so, then you might be OMGUS voting.
I thought Serela had OMGUS'd me. However I ignored it at the time because the last couple of games I've pursued Serela for all manner of things; fake claiming, poor votes, misrepresentation, and every time she's turned up as an innocent dead townie. So I finally thought 'ugh, bad play does not equate scummy play' and let it pass.
When Bardiche voted for Serela, I was surprised. Bardiche didn't make a case except for OMGUS implies scummy, therefore vote. Shortly after, NNR challenged fairly poorly with 'youdbestbejoking.gif' and then Bardiche said:
Honestly, Sky_Paladin should clarify why he thinks Serela's post looks "weird" and whether "weird" equates to "scummy".
I felt this appearing was suspicious, and that's why I voted for Bardiche. NNR's behavior after then stuck with my mind while I was at work, and finally when I came home I resolved to vote for him. Then I read Bardiche's case on Raikaria and I decided that it had a lot more merit than my vote on Bardiche. I can't sit on a bad vote when there's a better case out there.
Mitsuki; please don't be concerned with my situation. If it was unbearable, I should sub out. You can consider that scum would say anything to avoid a lynch so there's no hard feelings either way.
More to come~
-
The final point was that I don't place much merit on OMGUS for the same reason I don't actually put much weight in empty unvotes or poor logic. Bad play does not equate scummy play. I consider lies, misrepresentation, power lurking or stalling to be scummy tactics. I know that players here seem to put more value on it, so I included it in my NNR claim as a final after thought in case it meant something to other townies who were also cautious about NNR.
-
Oooh boy I'm not mentally prepared to parse this multi-way slapfight. Or maybe it's not a slapfight, but rather, a gigantic tangle that's half made of people trying to understand what other people were even saying in the first place, which is even worse. Anyway I'm tired >>
But I'll poke this for now (and talk more when my brain is more functionally, hopefully in the next few hours as opposed to tomorrow morning)
Serela, is it that hard to go back and read my posts? Anyways I'm not asking you to do so, I'm telling you that if you want to say that I haven't scumhunted you should actually know what I've done in the first place.
A.Didn't have time at the moment and it's easier to ask :lazy:
B.I said I just "didn't remember" if you had I simply didn't recall you doing it, but despite saying otherwise you refused to even do something as easy as say who your scum suspects were? :C This is just being needlessly unhelpful
3.As I said this morning before I left, even if you -had- stated it in previous posts, a lot of important things had happened since then and therefore an up-to-date refresh of your opinions would have been very relevant regardless of whether or not I looked at your previous history- on top of that I was preeeetty sure that you hadn't said such things within the past couple pages which basically meant any opinions to be found would be pretty old due to how D1 works
but you still deigned it unnecessary to respond, dude ;_; I even told you why YOU SHOULD RESPOND REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS WERE READ but you're just "no go away"
anyway dinner, poof
-
oh wait I peeked at the post again and you -did- respond to the question that time
this is proof I can't parse mafia right now, right, gonna go eat >_>;
-
##Unvote
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
Fuck everything else, retconning your case is the worst thing ever.
-
I think at least one of Mitsuki, Zakeri or Oarfish are scum.
Generally: Mitsuki vote parked on PX from RVS and kept her vote there for a very long time. It's relevant, so I'll get to that in a moment.
She has also been making many what I consider to be empty content posts. Here are some examples.
"No one seems a mafia" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073141.html#msg1073141)
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073314.html#msg1073314) is largely a glorified justification for her vote park on PX. It is not an actual case.
Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073382.html#msg1073382) Mitsuki town clears some players (Bardiche, Raikaria).
Mitsuki (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073453.html#msg1073453) town clears Raikaria again, and now also Zak. Now there's a list of three town clears.
Now (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073465.html#msg1073465), she responds to someone else's question, but she's evasive - instead of supplying the direct answer (which would be faster and easier), she writes a longer sentence describing how her list works. It's stalling.
Stalling is when in response to a question or challenge, you say something like "I already answered the question" or "reread my post". It's scummy because players who have lied in their posts don't want to repeat the lie. They unconsciously avoid it, in the same way that when people tell a lie, they often touch their nose or ears afterwards. Try it yourself and you'll see~ Another way of stalling is rephrasing the answer.
Basically in this scenario, I posit that Mitsuki actually thinks one of her town clears is actually scum, which implies she is scum herself.
Here's (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073470.html#msg1073470) another empty content post. Mitsuki spent a lot of time asking people to answer her questions - to be fair, she did promptly respond to any questions people asked her. My feeling, though, is that of a person who went to great effort to appear busy but hasn't actually done anything.
It's reflected well in this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073613.html#msg1073613) post. Serela actually asked Mitsuki about her scumhunting. Here's the quoted response:
You don't recall correctly. While it's true that it's unlikely for me to find much stuff scummy D1, I did way more than that. When you read it I can explain better if there's some point you don't agree with/don't understand.
It's scummy because Mitsuki is stalling; she didn't indicate any of the posts she considers to have been her active work and puts the burden of proof back on Serela. I have read all of Mitsuki's posts and I'm concerned.
Mitsuki hasn't made any claims so far this game. She voted for PX in RVS and kept it there until near the end of the second third of day 1.
At this time, she finally votes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073643.html#msg1073643) for me. Her case is 'I think you should be considering current wagons. There's just a day and three hours left.'
With that she votes for me, despite the fact that my 'wagon' at this stage was just one vote. If she was wagon hopping, she should have hopped on to Raikaria's 4 vote wagon - even if she was town clearing Raikaria, her argument implies that 'any lynch is better than no lynch', so if you want to get a guaranteed lynch, why vote for the person who probably won't be lynched? It's a mystery.
But more interesting than that is what prompted Mitsuki to decide that 27 hours was not enough time to pick a new target.
It was when NNR voted Oarfish. She not only discouraged NNR to vote for an 'existing wagon', but avoided voting for an existing wagon herself. That's a big surprise.
Well, maybe not such a big surprise.
Reminder: Mitsuki town clears (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073453.html#msg1073453) Raikaria and Zakeri.
When she voted for me (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073643.html#msg1073643), she was soft-defending Oarfish by telling NNR his vote was wasted.
When CF7 challenges Oarfish, she then re-town clears (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073722.html#msg1073722) Oarfish, and also includes CF7 as 'probably town (but terrible)'.
Zak then appears and chainsaw defends (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073725.html#msg1073725) Oarfish; with the excuse of CF7 has taken longer than an hour to respond. The specific line of 'good catch' just makes me ugh. It feels fake. He then handwaves (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073752.html#msg1073752) CF7's argument out of existence because CF7 has gone to bed.
Finally, (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073770.html#msg1073770) Mitsuki then appears to make a weak case on me, but votes CF7 anyway. But only a few posts ago, Mitsuki said that she thought "CF7's reaction was terrible but I could also see town act like that."
Finally, Mitsuki was asking players lots of questions all game. She never asked me any questions before voting for me. In Justice Juice Mafia (the only one I played with her before) she was very actively scumhunting and tackling players like Dormio and Kilgamayan fearlessly. The Mitsuki here is comparatively quiet and complacent. I feel like her meta is off, so that's what makes me feel confident about this situation.
***
TL;DR; I think Mitsuki is scum because of chronic empty posting, stalling, lackluster and questionable voting, and suppression/quelling votes players voting for Oarfish.
(NB it's not the same as against Raikaria - Mitsuki just townlcleared Raikaria. She never pressured people to not vote Raikaria, but she did pressure people to not vote Oarfish.)
So in summary, I think there's a rat in amongst Mitsuki/Oarfish/Zakeri. From my previous experiences, picking the person who is doing the defending is usually more viable than picking the defendee.
##unvote
##vote Mitsuki
Cut by Bardiche. Take a chill pill. This isn't Judge Judy.
-
Actually, I will merit that with a response.
In what way did I 'retcon' my actions? To my knowledge I made a true and accurate account of what was done.
If you disagree, please specify.
-
See here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073152.html#msg1073152) and this:
2 - Bard jumping on Serela for it seems opportunistic. Then when Cheez called Bard on it, she distanced herself with some reporting here. I'd vote for Bard at this stage as a serious vote because she only added in her reasoning for voting (and questioned her own vote) when challenged. What.
##unvote
##vote Bardiche
I think the backpedaling and two report-type posts are the scummiest things so far. Gotta go~
You voted me for reporting and backpedaling, alongside opportunistic voting. In your explanation post you pretend you voted me for this:
When Bardiche voted for Serela, I was surprised. Bardiche didn't make a case except for OMGUS implies scummy, therefore vote. Shortly after, NNR challenged fairly poorly with 'youdbestbejoking.gif' and then Bardiche said:
Quote
Honestly, Sky_Paladin should clarify why he thinks Serela's post looks "weird" and whether "weird" equates to "scummy".
I felt this appearing was suspicious, and that's why I voted for Bardiche.
Your case is retconned because suddenly it's about something else. Me asking you to clarify your post meriting a vote is a pants-on-head silly reason either way, but there's suddenly no more reporting and backpedaling involved? What?
-
Oh right.
'I felt this appearing was suspicious, and that's why I voted for Bardiche'
It was suspicious because I thought you were backpedaling from your vote. I dropped the reporting thing because a few other players told me I was imagining things.
Anyway you dropped your reasonably good case on Raikaira and ignored the CF7/Mitsuki/et al hilarity for what is basically splitting hairs. Is this really the best you can do?
-
Gyargh I'm alive I swear
Sorry
Catching-up time~
Everyone is terrible. Not only simpletons, airheads, mooks, and Mafia initiates play this game, but sometimes it seems like it.
I really don't have the time right now to dig through the layers of CFScummy's attack on Zak to see if it's legit, but I will do that sometime soon.
Dude what
Like, did you really decide to say this? Because this is totally out of left field coming from you. Even though I've only seen you play two other games it's just so unexpected that it makes me wonder if you're taking advice or something. (not that I'd consider it good advice, though) That said, I think meta is super-lame especially when I don't even know it's accurate so I'm going to pursue something else.
PS: "Cheez" was the "rat-friend" I was referring to. It's a pun.
...Even I didn't catch that one
Oh yeah reading a couple of posts reminds me I want to say I don't know what I think about Bard. He's been helpful and active about contributing, but his cases keep having reasoning that would be good and accurate reasoning if it were applied in a slightly different situation, but just doesn't quite apply in the situations at hand. Makes me unsettled that maybe he's just scum who's really being good at looking townie, and he'll just happen to be on the wrong path every time or something (because he's scum and stuff)
People keep talking about CF7 and whoever else and RVS but I keep end up not understanding the cases on either side very well (maybe because "RVS" seems to be included in the cases on either side.) I'll try to look into that if there's time after I wake up. Right now though I'm going to focus on things that don't leave me thinking "what are they talking about?"
Oh wow the end of Page 6 cleared at least some parts of it up fairly well. CF7 doesn't look that great now.
Paladin's shaping himself up as "probably not scum" in my eyes. I don't know why. I think it's because... uh, well, gut, until I figure out what it really is. It was something during these last four five posts of his though.
And now I'm caught up.
I thought more and I figure there's enough of a chance that Raikaria is telling the truth that it probably wouldn't hurt for her to stick around until Day 2. I'm having trouble deciding whether or not to actually trust her to the extent allowed in a mafia game rather than just giving her the benefit of the doubt, but one way or another she's at least getting that much from me today. Zak has also gotten rid of those scum points he earned and even leans a little bit town right now. And I've noticed Mitsuki's posts have definitely been kind of weird- once I've slept I need to look at her posts and decide whether I think "weird" means "scummy".
Also, this time I actually checked the votecount before putting someone at L-1. I'm learning!
##Unvote
Consider my vote on CF7 for now.
-
Oh yeah reading a couple of posts reminds me I want to say I don't know what I think about Bard. He's been helpful and active about contributing...
Along with the rest, there's the way this started out true but seems like it's gradually become less and less true as time went on. I don't really think I'm just imagining this either.
-
Wherever there's opportunity, the votecount will be there.
ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Sky_Paladin (2): Zakeri, Mitsuki
Raikaria (4): PX, Bardiche, Sky_Paladin, Cheez8
CF7 (3): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish
Bardiche (1): Raikaria
O4rfish (2): NekoNekoRex, CF7
Not voting:
Well. I just completed a problem set in a day and a half. so. I'll give this 20 min give me a second
Raikaria is at L-3
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
You got around 21 and a half houers left.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
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So by page 2 I have Zak/Cheez as scummy. Bard/Neko as towny the rest null town and skypal null scum and serela null.
-
post #69 is pretty bad. but again that may just be the opinions in sum. It's backwards to say that Serela is scummy but then bard jumping on serela is opportunistic and also scummy. ??? .
-
Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.
ActionDan (1): ActionDan,
Raikaria (4): PX, Bardiche, Sky_Paladin, Cheez8
CF7 (5): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish, Zakeri, Mitsuki
Bardiche (1): Raikaria
O4rfish (2): NekoNekoRex, CF7
Not voting:
CF7 is at L-2
Raikaria is at L-3
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
You got around 17 and a half houers left.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
##unvote
##Vote Cheez
by the end of page 3 I think this is the best bet. The expanded case on NNR looks more like an attempt to solidify a shoddy case more than actual scumhunting.
Serela is hilariously town lol. And I have mild townreads on Schezo and Oarfish along with the 3 I colored green.
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skimmed the rest. god knows I can't read the walls.
We all really should power lynch cheez. I can sorta understand where skypal is calling Mitsuki's posts chronic emptiness only because I am wary of her too, but a good example would be cheez who apart from the early NNR case has little else to show.
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oh and zak seems town actually.
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as does px
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I'm not yet sure who I'd vote between Raikaria and CF7. don't have a good read on either.
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Dan, I hope it isn't asking too much but you should really read the long-form arguments and get a handle on the core cases. Voting Cheez based on pages 2 and 3 doesn't help when Cheez has no wagon and town is on page 7.
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i'm aware. But his further posts after page 3 don't change my mind. unlike, for example, Zak's, which did.
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Are you not understanding what I'm saying?
You either have to make an amazing case on Cheez such that six other players will get on board,
or say "Cheez is scummy but I'm going to vote a scummy wagon that will actually reach seven votes"
or declare all of the extant wagons to be not voteworthy.
I don't see how you can do anything else and claim to be town.
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and you know
So by page 2 I have Zak/Cheez as scummy. Bard/Neko as towny the rest null town and skypal null scum and serela null.
##unvote
##Vote Cheez
by the end of page 3 I think this is the best bet. The expanded case on NNR looks more like an attempt to solidify a shoddy case more than actual scumhunting.
Serela is hilariously town lol. And I have mild townreads on Schezo and Oarfish along with the 3 I colored green.
is not an amazing case that will get six more votes, especially in the time we have left.
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Anything is possible
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Egh, I want to sleep but the day will end during the night so I have to actually post things.
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Kind of annoyed
I need to actually have opinions on the big people but it's just so boring reading text walls that I haven't wanted to do more then quick skims while frowning at absurd posts by CF7/Skypal/Raikaria/Zak for nonspecific reasons.
They're in my top 4 of "people I would probably lynch aside from Schezo"
Has Schezo scumhunted yet let me go back and look
Also I am writing up posts about the big four above but it'll take me a bit to slog through the posts of each one.
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Also preliminary ##unvote because Oarfish finally proved he is not completely worthless on D1.
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(unlike Schezo)
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##Vote: Schezo while i read
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K so Skypal is pretty awful. Mostly his cases are shit. Like, utterly. I made a post already on his first text wall (response here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073157.html#msg1073157)) so I won't reiterate that.
Post #98 is a pretty awful case on me, following that
Checks Bardiche's vote on Serela with 'youdbestbejoking.gif'. Why? Despite my earlier misgivings, Bardiche's vote was quite reasonable.
Reads like backpedaling to attack me which is really bad.
"since he tends to step it up under 'pressure'" <-- Incorrect. I go afk as this board's meta is to lynch active, contributing players. You watched me do it successfully once as your scumbuddy and once as a serial killer
imo if we're talking meta, you first try to defend with a text wall then go quiet afterwards if it doesn't go well, but I'm not voting you for meta, I'm voting you for having bad posts.
"Anyway as far as the post content, it's half and half I guess."
I'll clarify I meant "half of it is pointless fluff".
Lastly he technically OMGUS voted CF7 here.
OMGUS accusations are always icing on the cake especially when the vote on me is a pure jokevote.
This is followed by him completely abandoning his intricately made case in favor of sheeping bard. good job.
#183: [massive retcon about previous posts]
The final point was that I don't place much merit on OMGUS for the same reason I don't actually put much weight in empty unvotes or poor logic.
The reason using OMGUS as an argument doesn't work is that 90% of OMGUS cases are bullshit and based on the fact "X player voted Y who is voting him" despite the fact that X player actually has a good countercase.
Finally #188 catches me off guard for not being a completely awful case. (which I'm not going to quotewall on account of it being fuckhuge long) Actually that redeems him a decent bit.
He's scummy but his current case is gr8. I don't want to lynch him, but at the same time his ratio of badposts to good post is very alarming. Would keep for Day 2.
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Reading CF7 now. I ignore the first two pages of Mafia games after ED1 because they're always pants on head retarded.
Tbh, i don't like Schezo's posts. Pretty much zero actual content. RVS vote, another RVS vote, and jump-vote on Serela.
##Vote Schezo
CF7 is off to a good start here though.
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Okay I promise I am done ragging on Schezo, even if I don't like any of his content so far and don't see any actual casemaking from him.
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Sleeping with the fishies actually im really sleepy... count
Raikaria (1): PX
CF7 (5): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish, Zakeri, Mitsuki
Bardiche (1): Raikaria
O4rfish (1): CF7
Sky Paladin (1): Bardiche
Mitsuki (1): Sky Paladin
Cheez (1): InAction Dan
Schezo (1): Nekonekorex
Not voting: Cheez >:C
CF7 is at L-2
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
You got around 9 hours left.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
I only fell asleep once in the middle of this votecount. I'm sure it's fine.
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Not gonna lie, CF7 got terrible starting at like page 6. His Oarfish vote diverts hard from his Zak opinion to do an actual, real OMGUS case, and he basically falls apart at that point. His case doesn't even read in trying to explain how Oarfish is scummy, he just picks the case apart and votes him for bad scumhunting.
I'd lynch him in a heartbeat.
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The main problem with Raikaria is that his vote is still on Bardiche and Bardiche is town.
That's all I really have to do to sum up my opinion on him, really.
Raikaria also seems to disregard everything else going on in the game, so he should get on having an opinion on people other than Bard.
Would also lynch.
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I'm tapped out at the moment but i don't think Mitsuki or Zak are due to get lynched anyway so whatever
Oarfish is pretty town since I made the complaint about his lack of posts. Keep up the good work.
mite be here for deadline but that depends on how sleepy I am in the morning.
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CF7>Schezo>Raikaria>PX
The comment about PX I made earlier still stands, since he has yet to post anything good.
I wish Dan would get with the times but he seems like he's actually trying so not completely terrible.
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Okay, okay. You've caught the scum. Pat yourself on the back.
But seriously. O4rfish case is so badly written, maybe it looks good from his side, but it's wrong for the reasons i've described. I'm trying to defend against it. Also vote him for it, because prior to that point he was doing literally nothing. Then he comes, writes that post. How come that's not scummy?
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Wtf is going on.
Like I seriously don't understand anything on CF7 right now. Wat.
Okay, after spending too much time, I finally got it. The case on CF7 is BULLSHIT.
In a later post of yours, you say that Sky was in RVS at the time. In fact, you call Zak scummy for condemning Sky's vote.
But if this is true, then Bard's vote on Serela wouldn't be bad at all!
This post is all wrong.
See Serela's vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073027.html#msg1073027) and Zakeri's vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073218.html#msg1073218)
They're quoting different parts of the same damn post. How can they be the exact same reason, if they're not even talking about the same part of the post? Clearly this wagon on CF7 is crap. And the one who has the most to gain from jumping this and spearheading it?
##Unvote
##Vote: Zakeri
Not to mention it gives a reason to jump onto a CF7 vote and try to cement his pose that CF7 was scummy despite giving absolutely no reasons at all before his vote.
However, O4rfish's case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073679.html#msg1073679) on CF7 is also pretty damn bad. Just by looking at the first part of CF7's post you can obviously tell he's confused, but you're spinning it around as if he's intentionally making his case obfuscated and confusing. Zakeri also never posted a reason on why CF7 is scummy, so CF7 obviously tried to find a reason for why he could be found scummy. Now why would you find your OWN OPINION to be hypocritical?! This is seriously nonsensical bullcrap.
Then he characterizes Zak as having reason to vote Bard but not actually voting Bard. I think you can disagree with someone's case without having cause to vote them. The reason I am making a different choice is that investigating CF7's case on Zak involves spending more time than the case took to make, by design, which seems extremely scummy.
Yes, you can think one way, but what stops others from thinking otherwise? Is anybody who doesn't think the same way you do scum? And that second part that you claim to make it seem scummy is just a giant wat
And the last part of the case, it's because that's the ONLY reason why Zakeri thought Sky Palladium was scum, basing it off an RVS post.
Also, these (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073919.html#msg1073919) posts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073920.html#msg1073920) are terribly scummy, why are you trying to force a false ultimatum and disregarding someone trying to find an alternative route from the current one you threw in?
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Oh right, Raikaria is misguided town for now
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Mostly because of the more I tried to push it, the more I felt like I was forcing shit.
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Also, in substitute of trying to make more words, Sky Palladium's post on Mitsuki (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073825.html#msg1073825) has a few hit and misses, but is overall about the same that I would post on Mitsuki, mostly the empty presence and general lackluster aura, on top of pitiful jump on Sky Palladium, and reallllllllly bad jump on CF7. So there's your potential scumteam, all spearheading the CF7 wagon.
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Also fuck deadline in 8 hours, I SAID GOOD NIGHT
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CF7
Okay, okay. You've caught the scum. Pat yourself on the back.
I don't know how to interpret this to mean anything other than 'CF7 is a caught scum'.
CF7, you want to explain that is somehow a misunderstanding?
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CF7
I don't know how to interpret this to mean anything other than 'CF7 is a caught scum'.
CF7, you want to explain that is somehow a misunderstanding?
Oh, right. I should have probably added /sarcasm after that. As if that's not obvious.
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Uh wait a second.
PX votes Zakeri but the entire post is about the CF7 wagon right?
Then why is his linked post from Zakeri about Sky_Paladin?
And why is he mainly ranting at O4rfish in the rest of his post?
Zakeri and Serela don't even have the same reasons for voting Sky. Serela dislikes him saying that telling the town this is not a situation to counter-claim people in is a bad thing, while Zakeri doesn't seem to like Sky voting Serela for being 'dangerously competent'.
I think there is only part of the post where you randomly mention that Zakeri's Sky vote, which you linked.
Everything else is about O4rfish. Surely this means you should be voting for him/her, not the guy you briefly mentioned and seemed to have connected to the wrong case somehow?
I'm not sure if you ended up typing your wall on O4rfish between your reasoning for voting Zakeri or something, [Happens to me sometimes] but even then you rant so much about O4rfish and O4rfish's posts that it truely baffles me as to why you are voting Zakeri and not O4rfish.
##Unvote
##: Vote: PX
Could be that he just screwed up his previous post big time, but as it stands that incoherent unconnected case together with his complete lack of anything earlier is voteworthy in my books.
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Also I still don't like CF7 [I mentioned this breifly at some point before], but as people have stated, and voted, he seems to be getting worse. Also don't likeSky_Paladin right now for pretty much the same reasons as before.
PX > CF7 > Sky_Paladin right now IMO,
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Bard is after Sky but enough people have slapped me in the face and said 'No Bard is town' that I do not think he's getting lynched.
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Time is short, for those of you not on the CF7 wagon. Remember, at phase end there'll be a lynch of the person with the most votes, there's no need to hammer.
We have one vote on Zak, one on Oarfish, and one on Mitsuki.
I can swap my vote for a couple hours yet, but I'll be gone at phase end because it's always at 3 am my time. I will support a consolidation on to any of those three or if another brilliant case comes up that I can't ignore.
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I have a brilliant case. It's on cheez. It's brilliance lays in its simplicity.
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Well, for what it's worth, i'm willing to vote for either O4rfish or Zak.
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19 minutes before I have to leave so I'll skip complaining about Paladin's case. I'll reply D2.
Still, if you need me to reply to some point today I'll do it, just quote it.
But I'll be back for the deadline! I'll steal a friend's computer to check the situation switch my vote if necessary. (Initially I was only going to meet my best friend but now we're going to someone else's house)
People should really stop focusing on lynches that are not going to happen and focus on the potential ones. Paladin, is CF7 so townie that you wouldn't lynch him? What about PX/Raikaria? Also disappointed at Dan, if you wanted to do stuff you should have done it before and now it's not the time to turbolynch anyone when there are way better candidates for a lynch. Now you should ISO lynch candidates. I'm not even sure who is a lynch candidate apart from CF7, is it PX, Paladin and Raikaria? It's hard to tell because CF7's like, the only player with more than one vote right now.
Still, I'd lynch CF7 or Paladin right now, I'd rather think more about PX and consider him D2 now that he's made a case, and Raikaria is a townread.
I haven't read properly what happened so I probably don't cover everything I should with this post but I'm not going to support any lynch on people who I think are town, and I have no actual thoughts on Cheez so I'd rather lynch even PX.
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ZZZZZmgjfguthsgledjscount
CF7 (5): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish, Zakeri, Mitsuki
O4rfish (1): CF7
Sky Paladin (1): Bardiche
Mitsuki (1): Sky Paladin
Cheez (1): Action Dan
Schezo (1): Nekonekorex
Zakeri (1): PX
PX (1): Raikaria
Not voting: Cheez >:C
CF7 is at L-2
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
You got 4 hours and 15 minutes left.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
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I see 5 votes on cf7. And 1 on everyone else. I don't care what people have on whomever. Hardly anyone has taken a look at cheez so if people don't want to lynch scum that's on them. Atm vote wise anyone is a viable. Take a chance do your dance and vote cheez.
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I'd rather think more about PX and consider him D2 now that he's made a case
What do you think of this case where PX rants about O4rfish and then votes Zakeri for ???
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People should really stop focusing on lynches that are not going to happen and focus on the potential ones.
My bullshit radar just went "DING!" at this part.
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I'm not going to support a cf7 lynch
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In going to be busy for the next 3 hours so my position is final
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I think CF7 is town. I think there is no case on him and he just attracted momentum and scum opportunity votes.
I am not sold on Raikaria. I think Bardiche made a good enough case that I voted and Raikaria has not really redeemed himself in my eyes. I just think the case on you (Mitsuki) is better.
If I am wrong about Mitsuki, I would consider PX instead.
I think CF7 and PX should vote for Mitsuki; and any player who queried Mitsuki's non-content posts (Dan and Serela iirc) should consider swapping over too.
On an unrelated note: Bardiche, sorry for misidentifying you as a woman.
This is probably my last check in for this phase. I've said all I wanted to. Anybody who is sitting on the fence, please review my case on Mitsuki, and then review the (nonexistent) case on CF7, and make your call.
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Got three hours and no reason to change my vote.
I should still read the rest of the game, though.
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I have a brilliant case. It's on cheez. It's brilliance lays in its simplicity.
Please try harder. It's a little insulting that you think my play is so scummy all you have to do is say "cheez was scummy on page 3" for six people to be convinced. Also, I still believe that shoddy case on NNR holds a little bit of water, but it's such an ED1 case I'm not considering it right now.
CF7 (5): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish, Zakeri, Mitsuki
O4rfish (1): CF7
Sky Paladin (1): Bardiche
Mitsuki (1): Sky Paladin
Cheez (1): Action Dan
Schezo (1): Nekonekorex
Zakeri (1): PX
PX (1): Raikaria
...did I really just wake up to this votecount being real?
Well, I thought more. Zak is town, I'm wavering a bit on CF7, PX's post doesn't really instill confidence and it's the one post he's actually made (although at first I thought it was ActionDan posting that so I could have been making that mistake for a while), and Mitsuki's posts are enough that I would maybe vote for her. Paladin... I have no idea about him.
Basically at this point my vote priorities have shifted to something similar to PX>CF7>O4rfish>Mitsuki>NNR>Paladin and CF7 is close enough to the top that, sure, I'm fine with lynching him.
##Vote: CF7
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Please try harder. It's a little insulting that you think my play is so scummy all you have to do is say "cheez was scummy on page 3" for six people to be convinced.
Also I like being able to try to defend myself and it's hard when the case is as unclear as "was scummy earlier"
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What do you think of this case where PX rants about O4rfish and then votes Zakeri for ???
It seemed bad, but I haven't read it properly.
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Actually
##Unvote
##Vote: PX
because I'm so convinced about him that I'd rather try to get a PX lynch built up than ensure CF7 is lynched even though I don't trust him very much either
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-Town has to lynch. If there is no majority at the end of the day then to one with the most votes will get lynched, a tie will result in a random lynch of one of them.
Well, considering this part, i'll be lynched anyway.
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so as far as I can see it, the two major wagons of the day are "CF7" and "Oh god, please, anyone but CF7".
See Serela's vote and Zakeri's vote
They're quoting different parts of the same damn post.
The last two games, Serela has been dangerously competent and I don't like it.
Also [The post where Serela is acting competent this game] kind of looks weird.
Yes, we're quoting different parts of the same point he was making, and so?
"And the one who has the most to gain?" What exactly do I gain from spearheading the case on CF7? Since you're assuming it's not a dead scum role.
I've already brought attention to the fact that I forgot to bring up why I thought CF7 was scum, which is why I went out of my way to describe why I thought CF7 was scum. I've even been discussing the case on CF7 and seeing other people's reasons that I've actively agreed to even change my mind for (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073725.html#msg1073725).
It seems that a lot of your complaints about my playstyle come from ignoring everything I said and did from post 166 and onwards. It's fair when defending CF7 from Oarfish's case made in 162 because it hadn't happened yet but most of that beef seems to be against Oarfish. So why not push him? What exactly do you gain from spearheading the case against me?
I don't have an argument for Dan's case on Cheez8 but it would help if he provided a link to Cheez's case on NNR so we could at least go back to recheck how the case buildup actually reads rather than just taking his word for it.
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saying the post is on "Page 3" doesn't help me because Oarfish was on page 7 shortly after discussing that, and I'm only on page 5 right now.
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I can dream. Also, there's two hours left and a couple others have said they'd maybe lynch PX too, so who knows?
Also I just realized I didn't actually make a case against PX but 1) it's been made and 2) I'll see if I can do it anyway
PX has basically done nothing aside from have about three minor opinions all day until that one post of his where he talks at length about the confusing CF7 mess which is probably, at this point, the easiest thing to misinterpret and also the thing people are least likely to try to fact-check for themselves (based on my own experience of not wanting to fact-check things regarding CF7 that don't have quotes in them already, at least.) In summary I think he says something like "CF7 isn't scummy and the whole scumteam is pretending he is" but CF7 actually DOES look bad and Zak, who he votes for, is one of the only townreads I have so far. It was supported with something like "Zak didn't actually say why CF7 is scummy" except I'm pretty sure, at the very least, he clarified and found support for the reason O4rfish gave that I didn't understand at first.
Other people have probably made better PX cases but this is my understanding of the situation.
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Zak: Here you go. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073154.html#msg1073154)
It's not really a case so much as a thing that I noticed early on that looked scummy, along with the reasons why I thought it looked scummy. I don't really think much more can be expected from ED1 though and I also don't think that simply being something from ED1 prevents something scummy from being taken seriously.
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Cheez, can you clarify why i DO look bad? Because you didn't give your reasoning when you voted for me. Then you just decided to start pushing for PX.
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I'm here
making sense of things in the morning is hard.
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CF7 I wish you would actually defend yourself. Or at least claim, geez.
Here's my last throw of the dice for today.
Here's the case on CF7, as posted by Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073374.html#msg1073374). As near as I can make it out, the vote is because of a perceived bad play rather than a scummy play by CF7. I think this vote is reasonable at this stage of the game but it is becoming harder to defend as time goes on.
Schezo votes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073459.html#msg1073459) for CF7 in agreement with Serela and to get more content from CF7. Strategically it's probably a good call. I think this vote is reasonable and with the lack of CF7 defending himself is becoming more credible.
Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073463.html#msg1073463) is where CF7 gets himself in trouble, by voting for Zak. His reason for the vote is because Zak's vote on me was because of my RVS vote and generally poor reasoning. Shortly after, NNR pings Oarfish for doing nothing all game, and then he posts his first content post of the game and votes for CF7. His case ultimately hinges on that 'providing a reason for RVS vote means it is not RVS', but it was actually my vote he is referring to, and the vote and the reason were both jokes. Under examination there's no concrete reason for this vote. Oarfish's vote is scummy.
Anyway, this starts the chain off. Zak inevitably votes for CF7 (who has since switched to Oarfish). Mitsuki inexplicably defends all three of them and finally votes CF7 because she consolidated onto a Sky_Wagon that did not eventuate; and then had to find a better place to park her vote.
Basically I think Mituski/Zak/Oarfish are never gonna vote for anybody but CF7. To be fair, maybe it's because CF7 is scum and they are on to the right target. Three minds are better than one after all. But I can't help but feel the way it happened and how the three seem to be working together belies an ulterior motive.
Anyway, the only two people on that wagon that have an opinion that I'm interested in right now are Schezo and Serela. Those two have the only votes I consider plausible.
I'm not going to vote for PX at this stage. The main case so far has been that he was afk, but ActionDan was also afk and so was Schezo. The main case on PX is from Mitsuki, who never made a case and abandoned her vote to consolidate at 27 hour mark on to me, then abandoned her vote to opportunity vote CF7. Since I'm considering scum!Mitsuki, I can't in good conscience vote for her target.
I'm not going to vote for Cheez because the case is made by a rambling ActionDan who arbitrarily cleared miscellaneous players and doesn't outline any case that I can follow. Also in my opinion Dan has a truly awful record in town clears so I'm just gonna ignore him.
TL;DR
I don't see a case being made against CF7. Serela voted early and Schezo sheeped it. Oarfish/Zak voted CF7 because he voted them/vice versa. Mitsuki voted CF7 after defending him, so...
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Yeah that's not so much a "Shoddy attempt to justify a case" and it is "Clarifying an opinion for somebody who asked for it."
There is better stuff to lynch on.
I want to encourage people to switch their votes to PX if they don't think CF7 deserves the lynch. I would much rather see competing wagons than one wagon and a bunch of refusals to wagon.
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CF7 I wish you would actually defend yourself. Or at least claim, geez.
This is c9++, so I don't see how a claim would do anything.
Also that votecount is pretty silly.
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I want to encourage people to switch their votes to PX if they don't think CF7 deserves the lynch
How about, let's not lynch a player who is semi-afk when we have a much more pressing issue of the alignment of CF7 versus Mitsuki, Oarfish and yourself?
What do you think about my Mitsuki case? You and Oarfish have, to my knowledge, pretty much ignored it.
Do you think she has no case to answer?
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Cheez, can you clarify why i DO look bad? Because you didn't give your reasoning when you voted for me. Then you just decided to start pushing for PX.
I think it was mostly because I read this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073719.html#msg1073719) from O4rfish and the following posts from Zak that explained it, and went "Oh wow is that true? If it is, CF7 really isn't looking too good right about now."
I still have yet to determine how true it is since I'm both lazy and easily confusable, but because of the way Zak's posts were written as if they were realizing something, I thought it was probably true and it was a good enough reason to want to vote for you. I'm pushing for PX now because on top of never looking like he was town, he defended you with a post that I'm pretty sure misrepresents several parts of the fiasco and tries to make the one person I'm most convinced is town look like scum (again, through misrepresentation (or misunderstanding but one can easily be passed off as the other and I'm pretty sure PX knew what was really going on for whatever reason))
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Hour and 37 minutes left (although I guess we don't have to hammer anyway), just finished skimming the thread after waking up. Ooof, considering I never even got to properly parse what happened most of yesterday this is a little daunting >> At least I have a little actual free time before work today, and a coherent thought process unlike being superexhausted last night.
If there's anything specific you want me to comment on you better ask, since I'm probably only going to give light addressing to one or two important things otherwise due to time. Gonna figure out what the votes are at and then skim CF7 to make sure I'm still okay with the lynch.
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Sky_Pal's recent pleas only make sense if He's town or if he, PX, and CF7 are scum together. There are other possibilities but they're not worth looking into until the night/day after
I wouldn't say PX is semi-afk as he is just hiding out and trying to overinflate weak cases and then going back into hiding. Still I can understand the reasoning that you would rather bag information than shooting in the dark.
I'm looking over your Mitsuki case right now.
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Some of these posts I'm trying to read, and posts they're linking to as evidence, are so confusing to read I don't even. If I switched onto PX it'd be 4 vs. 3 in favor of CF7 being lynched, but I don't even have the time to start properly understanding what's going on in PX's posts/the posts it's using.
And then I reread CF7 instead and arguments over what is and isn't RVS and what that would mean in terms of alignments aggahghaghh ;_;
Most of CF7's play I already addressed and still stands, the other part is a case against newbie!o@rfish which is probably null even if I don't have time to mull that over or not right now. I'm fine enough with continuing on with his lynch that I wouldn't rather try to force things over onto lynching PX at the last minute.
-
Let's assume there are three possibilities.
1 We're scum working together, and Skypal is town and realized this.
2 We're not scum, but Skypal honestly thinks we are.
3 We're not scum, but Skypal is scum.
(4 Skypal is scum along with one or more of us, lol)
Which do you think is more likely? I'd like to point out that the three people he accuses are all on one wagon.
-
CF7 I wish you would actually defend yourself. Or at least claim, geez.
I've said everything i could to defend myself. That somehow made more people to vote for me. As for my claim... Do you like ice cream? Vanilla flavored?
-
I'll be honest I'm not fully in support of the CF7 wagon either. I have minor misgivings about this post:
Tbh, i don't like Schezo's posts. Pretty much zero actual content. RVS vote, another RVS vote, and jump-vote on Serela.
##Vote Schezo
But other than that and his empty unvote in #57 [More on that in a second] nothing strikes me as awfully scummy. That said, nothing he's done seems awfully town. I would much rather see a PX lynch.
In other news, while reading CF7 I can answer an earlier question! I found where the suggestion of a quicklynch cropped up before which set me off on Paranoia street!
It was CF7's #57 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073105.html#msg1073105)
I knew someone mentioned it.
-
And how many people is that now that have expressed misgivings about PX's 'case'? I know Mitsuki and Serela have now. I'm sure we can swap to a PX majority at this point. Both are not good, but PX IMO is worse.
-
whether or not skypaladin is actually calling those 3 the scumteam and whether or not O@rfish is or isn't scum, assuming people are scum based on loose interactions when you don't actually know if any of them are really scum would be Bad
anyway gtg get ready for work
cut by rofl raikaria
cut again, I mostly just said I didn't have the time to dig through the points because they were a little confusing and because the posts it linked to were significantly more confusing >> Then again maybe that in itself is bad, but me switching to PX would be a pretty impulsive decision with little justification given
-
@Oarfish, personally 2 and 4 are my top picks, and in that order.
The case on Mitsuki is actually super well-thought out. the accusations of empty content posting and stalling are supported by evidence, and are good supplemental points. It also bulletpoints the main parts of the case he's making, and I feel like Mitsuki does own explanations for vote suppressing and the nature of his clears, since the way Sky demonstrates how Mitsuki clears people suggests that Mitsuki is doing that scum thing where you semi-clear a lot of townies simply because you know they're town to begin with.
If Mitsuki does turn out to be scum, I think that clears Me, Oarfish, Raikaria, and suggests that CF7 and Sky may both be town as well.
-
I'm still trying to make sense of this last page, but imo nothing has changed on my opinions thus far. PX is still trash and his vote sux.
I'm kind of passively voting CF7 right now and I still think he's worse, but I wouldn't oppose a PX lynch either.
-
My main problem is that CF7's vote on Oarfish comes off as a giant overreaction and comes off as OMGUS. IMO it was CF7's reaction that brought the votes on him, not Oarfish's post.
Since then he hasn't really gotten over the attitude, either, which isn't doing him favors. It reads like scum trying to deflect suspicion and getting mad because 'they were caught' (ironically CF7 posted as much that he was 'caught scum').
-
Why should i write the same thing again, if people don't want to listen? It wasn't an overreaction.
-
If Mitsuki does turn out to be scum, I think that clears Me, Oarfish, Raikaria, and suggests that CF7 and Sky may both be town as well.
This is gonna sound really strange, but if Mitsuki is scum I wouldn't clear me based on it. As several others have suggested, Mitsuki has been taking my side a lot and claiming I am town most of the day.
I'd rather wait until Mitsuki provides the rest of what he wants to say D2 before I make any clear judgement on him/her however, because honestly it's hard for me to not be biased towards Mitsuki for taking my side and for being so confident that I am town, when that is a large amount of his/her content.
-
Also I'm gonna keep my chips on the wager that PX is scum. My odds table shows it better than CF7.
-
A man of honour always pays his debts? and keeps his word.
CF7 (5): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish, Zakeri, Mitsuki
O4rfish (1): CF7
Sky_Paladin (1): Bardiche
Mitsuki (1): Sky_Paladin
Cheez8 (1): ActionDan
Schezo (1): NekoNekoRex
Zakeri (1): PX
PX (2): Raikaria, Cheez8
Not voting:
CF7 is at L-2
With 13 mooks kicking, it takes 7 to lynch.
You got around 18 minutes left.
Day 1 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140226T18&p0=79&msg=The+end+of+day+one)
-
>18 minutes
welp
-
The amount of deadline posts here is pretty pitiful, even if there isn't No Majority No Lynch
##Unvote
##Vote: CF7
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The amount of deadline posts here is pretty pitiful, even if there isn't No Majority No Lynch
##Unvote
##Vote: CF7
Well, enjoy your mislynch.
-
Mad because bad
-
Stfu NNR
-
I'd post more except I'm still okay with a CF7 lynch, so I don't really have much of anything to say
-
Actually, screw you all.
##Unvote
##Vote CF7.
-
You see, this is why I said CF7 has a scummy meta. He's not even trying to lynch scum. At this point I am not even sure if he has a scum wincon.
I am starting to agree that PX is more likely to be actual scum, but CF7 is worth lynching and has more votes.
-
Seriously if you're just gonna have given up hours ago you might as well have voted yourself
PX you're no better lol
EDIT: HE ACTUALLY DID IT LOL
-
You see, this is why I said CF7 has a scummy meta. He's not even trying to lynch scum. At this point I am not even sure if he has a scum wincon.
I tried to do it. Your scumbuddies just did it better.
-
...Why is self-hammering a trend with you people?
-
Unexpected developments unfortunately make me have to request a replacement. :(
-
The end of day one
CF7 (7): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish, Zakeri, Mitsuki, NekoNekoRex, CF7
Sky_Paladin (1): Bardiche
Mitsuki (1): Sky_Paladin
Cheez8 (1): ActionDan
Zakeri (1): PX
PX (2): Raikaria, Cheez8
Not voting: None
And so ended the first day after the ?Business meeting?, with CF7 finding himself cornered by his own famiglia.
CF7 tried to defend himself: ?You can't do this, I'm just a harmless gelataio selling my ice cream!?
But it was all in vain. ? Liar, we all know that you brew that poison at night and when I think how awful it tastes then I wouldn't be surprised if it's really poisoned!? Was the answer he got. Another one added: ?That's the prove! He want to kill us all!?
Proven or not the mob lost its temper, so it only took a moment till CF7 ended his live, hanging from a tree in the park.
You are CF7 ?the Curious? Frattini the local Moonshiner.
Well, the moon only shines at night, but people who pays you can have moonshine all day, every day. Good, the fact that the stuff isn't actually legal makes things a bit tricky but honestly, no one would even think about drinking your swill much less pay through the nose for it if the prohibition wouldn't make the supply so difficult. To sell one of the most wanted illegal goods has also its downsides, you have to spend lots of your money for ?protection? or ?guards? who take your money and sometimes your stuff too. So it seems that you are a small-timer (vanilla town) after all.
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
It is now night one and you got 24 hours to sleep ? or what ever you do at night.
-
I guess it's about time, so here we go.
The dawn came as every morning but today it came with a whole army of paperboys screaming, ?Special news edition! Special news edition! Read everything about the recent murders! Gang war shocks the town! Police still clueless!?
So you got yourself one, mostly to get one of those noisy boys quiet for a moment. But what you read in there got you speechless instead.
Mitsuki got shot on street, as she were on her way home, from a passing car.
You are Mitsuki ?Green Eyes? Montinari the Owner of the local Box- Arena.
You started your way with backyard fight, first as combatant but as soon as you realized that the one one who made money there were the organizer have you began organize your own fights. It took you a while till you could afford a place for your own arena but it was worth the time. All you needed to do was to leave out all the rules that make things needlessly complicated and you got the kind of event that the folks want to see, but your real successful came with the suggestion to manipulate some fights.
Soon this arrangement proved itself so successful that the two of you turned it in to a partnership, in fact it made you that rich that only your boss got an higher income which you used to further your way up. Now you work directly for the boss himself but your cooperation spawned something even more valuable, ?trust?. You are a lieutenant of the gang (town mason) and your partner in crime your is O4rfish..
You are free to talk with your partner in crime here at all times: [ QT ]
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
And Cheez8 was found dead, shoot down from behind, still sitting in the seat of his favorite barbershop.
You are Cheez8 ?Derp Eminence? Formaggio the local Brewer.
Beer, beer, beer! Everyone wants it and you just happen to have an unlimited amount of your very own premium brand at hand, which you are willing to share for the right price of course. You could think that everything would run smoothly for you but to sell your illegal goods isn't actual that easy. From the three people you call regular customers is one permanently shy of money, the next never buys much and the bloody rat from the nightclub seems to think that he gets you stuff for free if he just shows up with enough goons to the price negotiations and so you are still just a small-timer (vanilla town).
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
It is now day two.
Also, Darkninjaabc will replace Bardiche right away.
-
##Vote: PX
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:/
Is it allowed that I saw the Mason pair before it was editted?
-
Uh. Well there goes my main suspect
-
I think I'll take it as a ?Judgment of God?.^^;
Sue me Sky but I'm too Catholic to ban god from my games. <_<
:/
Is it allowed that I saw the Mason pair before it was editted?
Would you be able to forget it if I tell you to do? I don't think so. >_>
-
*Folds arms*
Well, it is a shame that Mitsuki never got to answer about all of those opinions he promised at the End of D1, includeing his opinion on PX's final case of the day, which I saw, and still see, as awful.
In addition, we now know O4rfish is confirmed town.
We also know there is a 2nd form of kill. I know a few people thought Mitsuki scummy, so it may have been a Vig shot, or it could be an SK shot.
Anyway, I still think PX's final vote of Day 1 was poor, so want discussion on that topic, and clarrification from PX why he can justify voting Zakeri by writing a wall about O4rfish.
Who, by the way, is confirmed town now.
-
Forgot to vote
##Vote: PX
-
##Vote: Schezo
-
##Vote: Schezo
Still has zero notable scumhunting content and a bunch of sheep votes. Split between PX and Schezo in the category of "worthless lurker" but I like Schezo less.
-
PS I'm not surprised Oarfish is town, after that gr8 effort he made after I called him out on active lurking shenanigans.
-
how is oarfish town. was that the mason partner that was hidden.
-
ok then.
-
##Vote: Schezo
Still has zero notable scumhunting content and a bunch of sheep votes. Split between PX and Schezo in the category of "worthless lurker" but I like Schezo less.
Svhezo is a worthless lurker but at least his posts, sparse as they are, are coherent.
-
But he did the same thing as PX but earlier, making a rant two players (you, Raikaria and Skypal) which was inconcequential to his actual reads, and then he proceeded to vote for someone completely different for no reason other then "I liked another guy's case on him."
His other posts are equivalent to "What the hell, player?", snarky comments, or more sheeple voting.
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[1] (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073459.html#msg1073459)
Referring to the post above
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right. I didn't get a chance to do anything before day end but it doesn't matter. NNR is scum
His 145 string of posts was bad and I called him out on it but sadly that's all I got to do yesterday. It was just him setting up a bunch of easy people to jump on in a variety of circumstances. As soon as I suspect him he then makes it a point to call me out in whatever way he can about how bad of a lurker I am when prior to that I didn't exist. CF7 became his number one scumpick for security lynch reasons. Whooptifuckingdoo.
That's a good scum play to discredit the guy who suspects you but I'm just gonna save us all the tears and agony and state:
Guity NNR
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
Dan can play the game 2 days behind with me because I have no idea what that was at then end of the day.
I'm gonna share Cheez's 250 and say I don't really get the PX case because it's all over the fucking place. Though honestly I can see NNR bussing PX with how he called him out all of yesterday.
-
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCccccc
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccCCCCCCCCC
##Vote: NNR
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Bullshit, I'm a roleblocker and I blocked your sorry ass. You're just mad I've been rubbing it in your face how worthless your posts are.
##Vote Harder: Schezo.
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Where's your crumbs? Fakeclaiming is easy when the game has randomized setups, and any good cop is going to crumb their role beforehand.
You just don't want me pushing you for another game day, right?
-
frustrated
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You can't even call my posts "discrediting" you because there's nothing to discredit. You don't provide reasoning for anything. You threatened to vote me "for a chain of scummy posts" and then you leave it at that as if it explains everything. I called you out on your bullshit and you left the game. Nothing more scummy then a lurker who ducks out when he has the least amount of heat on him.
Do you even scumhunt?
-
You're right. I left the game by not being able to post.
-
oh dear
-
#unvote
So it's highly likely there's both a serial killer and one more power role. Assuming only one of the claimants above is town
-
Where's your excuse? Nothing adds up here. Why are you playing if you can't even come back with a reason why you left if you're going to be away so long?
This screams lurkharder and you're scum for trying to pull this kind of thing. You're not even fighting back, you're just letting your fake frustrated cop result do all the talking, right?
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Schezo is scum faking a cop claim and using his 'results' just to spite me for my earlier vapid 'trolling' of him.
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Anyway Mr serial killer can you shoot the scum in the 1v1 if we mislynch? Tia
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Dan:It could also be a town vig, several people suspected Mitsuki enough that it wouldn't be surprising.
Erm. I haven't thought about this very hard but on the basis of Schezo going first and him not exactly being the highest of suspects end-d1 I think it's pretty unlikely he's lying. After NNR flipped town, scum!Schezo would be insta-lynched, so it's a suicide fakeclaim and I don't see why scum would bother doing it.
##Vote:NNR
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Serela how can you buy into the claim so easily? I don't have reasons to announce my results until I need to claim, and Schezo is obviously forcing me to claim.
Maybe he hoped I had a better role when he outed me, but apparently not.
Schezo is throwing the game and needs to be lynched immediately.
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Dan:It could also be a town vig, several people suspected Mitsuki enough that it wouldn't be surprising.
add a vig and then if no more town power = serial killer based on TTT vs MMV(C/B).
(no wifom here)
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I am a cop who makes the mod publicly reveal my target's alignment. The fact that it also revealed someone else was unexpected. Also, I'm out of bullets.
##Vote NNR
Your reaction looks like caught scum
-
Unlike CF7, I am not going to sit on my sorry ass and simply let myself get mislynched here. Schezo is a liar and apparently can't take a little harassment. Cry some more.
##VOTE SCHEZO
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Erm. I haven't thought about this very hard but on the basis of Schezo going first and him not exactly being the highest of suspects end-d1 I think it's pretty unlikely he's lying. After NNR flipped town, scum!Schezo would be insta-lynched, so it's a suicide fakeclaim and I don't see why scum would bother doing it.
Because Town!NNR is calling out Schezo!Scum super hard and he figured he could get one more mislynch in before NNR manages to convince us that his poor play is the result of him not being town.
Honestly, Schezo's cop claim does look a little fake, specifically that he OMGUS shot and claims to have gotten a scum result doing that, as oppose to just trying to pick out someone that people are going to be super suspicious about like PX, Sky, or whoever Sky thought was scum. That plus the fact that he has no response to the call for a crumb other than "ugh" really feels like he's responding to being caught in a lie.
I was probably going to vote Mitsuki for information and then switch to PX but I'd rather see more of this develop. ##Vote: Schezo
(Yes I know Mitsuki flipped, but that was my plan before reading.)
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PX if I were scum I'd simply vote myself and get it over with faster. I have no reason to fight back if I don't think I'm mad about potentially getting mislynched.
-
##Vote NNR
Your reaction looks like caught scum
Could you clarify what caught scum looks like in this scenerio?
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This would be the best time to know whether there is 2 or 3 group scum.
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O wait p claimed Vig lol. Okay there is 3.
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Dan: I don't get it. Are you missing that each VT isn't a T in the lottery? That'd result in the setup only having 9~11 players :V
-
Oh wait you need at least 5 Ts for there to be two scum, and we have 2 Ms, a V (probably, I guess he could be SK), and either a C or a B (probably a C, but if you really think scum would think Schezo is in enough danger to warrant this than it'd be a B, yeah) so there must be three. Alright.
-
It's so nice that we managed to bring role speculation into a game designed against role speculation. Dan you are a credit to your craft.
-
The fact of the matter is that I wasn't here? I have to explain my absence and appeal to whatever? No. I just wasn't here so now I am.
but I agree. I'm throwing the game by getting a scum lynch. Damn. How in any way if you were town would that make me throw the game? It doesn't.
Saying my shot was omgusy when it was on someone no one was suspecting is what? You're right I sent it after who I suspected. Why would I send after a public suspect when I trust my own reads more? Had I not copped NNR no one would even be considering him and would be chasing shit like PX.
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Zakeri:To be fair all he managed to divine was there are three scum and not two :V But yeah after a significant amount of PR claims occur, it'll be obvious if someone is fakeclaiming, albiet not who it is.
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Schezo you have no credibility and you're the only player with any reasonable suspicion against me. Cops don't waste shots on players who are widely received as town, they target scummy players to save them from being the mislynch.
Your claim is out of spite and you just want me out of the game because you're butthurt and can't handle Mafia.
Where's your credibility? Why can't you at least say why you were gone? You vanished for a full game day, Schezo, you can't just blow it off without some kind of reason.
Where were you for deadline? Obviously it was ignoring the thread so you wouldn't plod with more terrible posts so I had nothing further to criticize.
I mean, look at PX. He posted at D1 end with fucking terrible opinions AFTER getting called out and he looked to be gaining a wagon today if you hadn't butted in with your claim.
I even said I'd stop with the harassment but apparently that isn't good enough for you if you want to get me myslynched out of spite. You do this every game where we butt heads. Take a little verbal punishment, come on.
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Bullshit, I'm a roleblocker and I blocked your sorry ass.
That is a lie.
##vote NekoNekoRex
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alright I'm done responding to you if you just want to personally attack me
-
That is a lie.
##vote NekoNekoRex
Prove it.
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Schezo is running away because he had no rebuttal to my claims. He just wants to let me get lynched so his spite can be complete and I'll be out of the game.
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I don't understand who all is claiming.
If you are on this list, and you are not claiming what I think you are claiming, then please say so.
Spfltrquezzo: cop
NNR: roleblocker
PX: 1-shot vig
Me/Mitsuki: Mason.
The question here is, where are the crumbs?
btw crumbs from Mitsuki and me are here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073141.html#msg1073141) and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073487.html#msg1073487)
So No One Seems A Mafia = Masons
Not Only Simpletons Airheads Mooks And Mafia Initiates = I'm a mason
Crumby posts look crummy for a reason. I'll try to disguise them better in the future.
I suppose a one-shot vig would have no crumbs; I left one well-hidden crumb as Snidely Whiplash, and it didn't even point to my role. I suppose it was worthless since it would only have come into play if I died, and I hid it too well for that.
Cut by:
Your claim is out of spite and you just want me out of the game because you're butthurt and can't handle Mafia.
We're Mafia, not thugs. Be polite.
-
he's rolefishing.
The only thing that isn't an attack on my character that post is that I "used the cop wrong" to get scum. sonuvabitch
-
Saying my shot was omgusy when it was on someone no one was suspecting is what? You're right I sent it after who I suspected. Why would I send after a public suspect when I trust my own reads more? Had I not copped NNR no one would even be considering him and would be chasing shit like PX.
If you actually told people what your read was, we wouldn't have to assume that the only reason you would cop/fake a cop claim on NNR is because he kept making a case against you.
You know what would do a better job of not having town chasing "shit like PX"? Getting a town result on him.
-
Oh yes. PX's claim is easy to prove. Serial killers kill compulsively, so tomorrow night there will be only one death.
##Unvote.
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The string of posts he made set off something inside me. It was enough voice stuff and then to just flat out cop him for it since it wasn't that substantial so no I didn't have a grand slamdunk case on him. I didn't get to post the rest of the day anyways so I'll call that an opportunity missed on being able to flesh out what exactly was wrong with it day 1.
-
Well that's a shame because it's there's not enough here to justify a follow the cop situation.
-
Ahem.
WHERE ARE THE CRUMBS
-
Schezo continues to have zero credibility for his claim. Even I don't rely entirely on gut for my scumreads, and I tend to have a pretty good gut for finding scum.
You had two days since your last post to get some proper scumreads and you can't even come up with a credible reason to pretend I'm 'suspicious enough to warrant a cop'?
-
Cheez8 and I both made claims against NNR.
If I was a cop, I would have checked one of Mitsuki/NNR/Serela.
NNR also made a one and a half page wall of individual posts all slamming Schezo who didn't reappear before phase end.
I think it's pretty credible and likely that Schezo copped NNR. Regardless, if Schezo was scum, then it was entirely unnecessary for him to claim cop. It is, however, necessary for NNR to go all out guns blazing because he is basically dead and nothing ventured nothing gained.
If NNR somehow flips town, then we lynch Schezo. That is the Way of the Cop.
-
No, if there are no crumbs we lynch both of them regardless.
-
Why would we lynch Schezo if NNR flips scum?
-
Because a cop who doesn't crumb looks exactly the same as a scum who busses.
-
Not everyone crumbs and not everyone thinks crumbing is necessary.
It could be bussing but if you're going to argue it's bussing you should have a good case on Schezo's behavior being scummy, not just "he claimed a guilty on NNR".
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I think crumbing is necessary for exactly this situation! NNR pushed strongly for Schezo's lynch and then Schezo claimed cop with guilty on NNR? That is when you need crumbs to back it up.
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You can't just ignore my claim like that. I blocked Schezo at night because he's my top suspect, and I have actual backing behind my reasons to suspect him, rather then 'I got real mad he called me on my bullshit posting and don't have a case'.
@Oarfish I actually had my crumb in last night's twilight, but I forgot that all the posts but one get deleted.
Me and Rocky and his friend Cinder went to a rock concert with to see The Rolling Stones yesterday.
I didn't really like it but Rocky seemed to enjoy it a lot so I guess it wasn't terribly bad.
Cinder as in Cinder Block, the friend's full name.
-
I had like 15 twilight posts before the flip if anyone was paying attention. Still have them on hand.
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I had like 15 twilight posts before the flip if anyone was paying attention. Still have them on hand.
Enough to fakecrumb every possible role at least twice, right? B)
-
What were you thinking?
Gee, nobody said HAMMER SHUT UP and the topic is locked so I guess I can just post endlessly
or Hey, I can post a bunch of crumbs and then bring up the one I need cause people will only remember the one I mention
Schezo, I'll probably die soon but my will and testament is that you need to convincingly show that you are town.
##Vote: NNR
Cut by Serela, who is crunchier than usual.
-
Wh... what does that mean? D:
-
That's a bit of an unfair assumption.
-
It's most likely a compliment.
##Unvote: Schezo
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
-
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.ph...9953.html#msg959953
------------
(Nothing has changed since I posted those criticisms btw lol)
------------
I'm channeling my inner Dormio as hard as I can right now I think.
Unfortunately I'm not actually Korean so I'll never be good at Starcraft regardless of how hard I try
-----------
once-a-game reminder that it's not possible to be good at mafia, only not inherently awful at it.
------------
dorian sure is taking his sweet time
honk honk
------------
I wish Conq would run DEFCON 2 because that was seriously one of my favourite games of Mafia ever
even if the game itself was a complete fucking train wreck
------------
I might be having too much fun with this
------------
Me and Rocky and his friend Cinder went to a rock concert to see The Rolling Stones yesterday.
I didn't really like it but Rocky seemed to enjoy it a lot so I guess it wasn't terribly bad.
------------
JUST UNLEASHED AN AVALANCHE OF PUNS THERE BAM
There has to have been at least one other person paying attention, so it's not like I can just make these up. If I wanted to pull a bullshit crumb out of nowhere, I'd have done so with an earlier post.
-
I might as well say this now before I get killed for it:
I was not crumbing when I said 'That was a lie'.
NNR making it a 1 v 1 versus Schezo by claiming that he roleblocked Schezo was highly unlikely.
There were two kills overnight. Schezo had the perfect alibi if he had actually been roleblocked.
All he had to do was be silent.
-
Holy shit can I at least finish the votecount
PX (1): Raikaria
Schezo (1): Nekonekorex
NekoNekoRex (6): Schezo, Serela, PX, Sky Paladin, Oarfish, Zakeri
Not voting: LOTS
NEKO IS BLASTING OFF!
With 10 mooks kicking, it takes 6 to lynch.
There's a billion hours left and stuff OH WELL YOU GOTTA WAIT FOR DORIAN SUCKERS
ALSO YOU ONLY GET ONE TWILIGHT POST SO CUT THAT SHIT OUT
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I'm just going to put this out there, in order of descending Flemishness*
PX is probably town, but I think he needs to step up his game.
Zak is townish and good at writing. He's likely to live slightly longer than me. If he lives to LYLO, lynch him.
Skypal - not the towniest, but decent. The case on Mitsuki was actually valid in some respects.
Serela - celery. Fresh celery right now. Let's see if we get to endgame before it wilts.
Cheez, Raikaria - null read.
ActionDan: ffffffffffffffffffffffffff
NNR, Schezo - scumheads
*Townish autocorrects to Flemish on my phone, but it's good because it refers to someone from Flanders, and we all know Flanders is the towniest.
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Holy fucking shit guys, Mod already said SHUT UP STOP POSTING
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The end of day two
PX (1): Raikaria
Schezo (1): Nekonekorex
NekoNekoRex (6): Schezo, Serela, PX, Sky Paladin, Oarfish, Zakeri
Not voting: LOTS
The flavor missed the bus and will be late today.^^;;
You are Neko ?Prince of Cats? Capulet the local Racketeer.
Live can be so simple, let the others work to get money, all you need to do is to send your boys out to claim your share and if they refuse to pay ? well, accident happen. A few lambasted employees, some broken shop windows here, some gutted homes there and the payment morale is restored. The only thing that annoys you is the fact that most of your money goes to your boss but that can't be helped if you are just a henchman and a small-timer (vanilla town).
Or maybe not, cause you actually a member of the invading gang. You may not be as perfectly disguises as your boss but you are here for your ruthless resourcefulness. You forgot already more dirty tricks than most of the other had ever learned and you intent to keep them busy enough that they couldn?t even think about interfering in your plans. That makes you the manipulator (scum roleblocker) of your team.
You may prevent a player from acting at night by sending me a PM with: ?##Roleblock: player name?.
You may execute the factional kill of your team by sending me a PM with: ?##Kill: player name?.
You are also free to talk with your partner in crime here at all times: [QT]
You win when your gang (scum) equals or outnumbers the other (town), good luck.
It is now night two and you got 24 hours to sober up ? or something.
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Well, that's what happen when you end the day on a time where I wouldn't be around for sure. >_> However ?
A new morning, and it starts again with a commotion. It seems like some poor wretch got badly thrashed last night and then dropped in to the river from a bridge.
You are PX ?Madman? Pierini the Leader of the local Raiding Party.
They say, ?the boss rules with a iron fist? and you know that it's true, cause you are said ?iron fist?. You have proven yourself as the most brutal and loyal of his henchman and so isn't it a surprise that he piked you for the real bloody work. There is no jeweler, no bank or hideout that was guarded enough that you couldn't shoot your way in nor were there ever enough cops that you couldn't shoot your way out again. Not only that it promoted you to the leader of the raiding party, it also lead you to the believe that there is no problem that you couldn't solve, with a gun. That makes you a lieutenant of the gang (town vigilante).
You may kill a player at night by sending me a PM with: ?##Kill: player name? but only once in the game.
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
It is now day three.
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Wait, so I go to watch the LCS, and then go to sleep, and you guys have lynched mafia and had a cop claim without me, and PX claimed a One-Shot Vig and got well, shot.
So we know there's no SK unless we also have the most pro Doc ever.
Seriously that Day 2 was my least productive day ever. Good job town.
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yeah fuck this town for lynching scum. you're all a bunch of ASSHOLES!!1!1
word raikaria.
This deadline is 4am for me so this is gonna own.
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wait you said my not the. my bad
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If town are gonna lynch scum I wanna be involved Schezo.
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Schezo, did you get to make another cop check last night?
Raikaria and Zakeri, you both heavily defended NNR (although so did confirmed towny Oarfish). What do you think of the other?
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Eh? I never defended NNR. I said I'd lynch PX over him because PX had content that was what in Late Day 1 when he actually made content, while NNR had hardly any content at all. Minimal content with what there is being bad is worse than no content in my books.
That's not defending NNR, as far as I see. I said he was pretty bad, I just saw PX as worse. Saying I heavily defended NNR is a massive misrep. Show me where I 'heavily' defended him. Especially since I did not even post after the cop claim.
Zakeri I need time to re-read. Busy this afternoon, give read in evening. Mostly null atm.
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By and large I agree with NNR. Except the 'Bard is townie' part. I think Bard's case on me is really flawed. And as I keep stateing, when you can take the cornerstone of one's case upon someone, and replace the name of the person they are voting for with 3~4 different people, and it is still valid, it is not a good case. Also slightly worried that Bard is soft-defending Sky and Sky then 5 mins after he makes a case on NNR flips over and assures everyone Bard's case is good. That said it's far too soon to throw around any serious accusation of scumbuddying.
This is the one time I mentioned NNR in the thread, mid Day 1, when I agreed with what he was saying at the time, except his opinion on Bardiche.
I say I find it weird that you made a case on NNR only to flip to me 5 mins later.
Neither of these actions can possibly be seen as defending NNR.
Misrepping is bad. I did not defend NNR in any way, shape or form, let alone 'heavily' defend him. I need to check if Zakeri did now too, or if you're misrepping him too.
And throwing a castaway vote Mid Day 1 onto NNR and then flipping 5 mins later is explained if you are his scumbuddy who wanted to make himself look not. It was very weird behavior, as I pointed out D1.
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
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This probobly falls into the *crazy conspiracy theory* zone so feel free to kick this case's teeth in people.
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I will agree Zakeri however seemed to be supporting NNR, now I've done a quick Cntr-F for NNR in D2.
##Unvote
##Vote: Zakeri
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Okay guys, Zakeri hammered yesterday before I can even post. So I cannot possibly miss that ridiculously scummy move.
Justifications or lynch~ ty
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I haven't reread D1 with NNR in mind yet (although I don't remember him getting much attention apart from one or two people)
But yeah, Zak defending NNR and then even quickhammering him to fast-forward the day afterwords... uhm. Maybe I need to rethink that soft townread I had >_>
Raikaria's case on SkyPal isn't too bad although I don't think scum would misrep something -that- badly, as it falls to pieces the moment anyone actually looks at Raikaria's actions.
(also even if I'm calling Zak out for it I'm kind of glad he just went ahead and quicklynched since NNR was caught!scum and hooray saving us 60 hours, I would have been gone literally the entire time n2 ended up occuring due to work anyway, still feel exhausted from it)
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By the way schezo I noticed you posted do you have any more awesome cop results for us
Or are you one-shot?
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Well, it seems glaringly obvious that there is no sk.
And scherzo is one shot clearly
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So Dan I know d2 was only like 7 hours long which makes it forgivable, but you haven't talked about not-roles in a long time :C
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While we are on the subject, I would also like to remark that I personally would prefer if Dan can speak more.
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Oh my god, I am still alive. Hopefully I can make use of this.
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Just Gonna comment on my mis rep: absolutely. I had pegged Zak and Raikaria as scum and then staring at the thread all night I had massive confirmation bias and attributed posts to Raikaria that didn't even exist. Wow.
Actually there was something else I want to throw out there but I'm not sure how to say/ask without looking super scummy. Well I'll just do it.
Raikaria, it looked to me that you were crummbing that you had a role on day 1. Did I misread you twice in one night?
Im gonna sleep on it and see wha the world looks like tomorrow. I built up a big case on Raikaria but now it looks all confirmation biasy so I need to rethink.
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Basically
Because role blocker flipped only certain combinations of town roles and vt are available.
We already know MMVC. What's missing is one player may have one or two letters and another player may have one letter.
I have to sleep but my idea is...we can maybe verify Raik and one other roled TOWNY, or get another 1 v 1 with scum today. I dont wanna say how but if anyone spends a bit of time thinking about it they can probably work it out too.
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I don't want to know your role. I just want to know: I thought I saw you crumbing a power role. Is it true?
I will explain this and many more next episode.
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the question: why did Cheez die?
The answer of course, is that Cheez was the only one who suspected NNR and ActionDan of working together.
In no other respect was Cheez more killable n1 than say Zak or Bard or Schezo.
Let's look at NNR and ActionDan interactions d1.
RVS ActionDan votes himself. CF7 asks why, for which crime NNR votes him.
Bard writes a post, Dan reads him as town, NNR says he needs more info for a read.
NNR writes a post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073088.html#msg1073088), Dan reads him as town.
NNR asks Dan who he views as scummy, Dan says nobody.
Cheez writes his case on NNR based on him favoring Dan.
After no responses from NNR or Dan, Cheez switches to Raikaria.
Much later, NNR and Dan both make dodge posts. Dan never does post until more than 24 hours later.
Dan returns to the thread and calls Zak and Cheez scummy based on page 1 and 2, even though he had claimed to not be suspicious of anybody, at the bottom of page 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073107.html#msg1073107). He then votes Cheez because of Cheez's case on NNR.
I think NNR and ActionDan are 2/3 of the scumteam.
##Vote: ActionDan
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With no SK and making the safe assumption Schezo is not filthy bussing scum, there is a Godfather+Goon left and out of the MMVC??? we have one more PR letter guaranteed, and either two Ts or two more PR letters.
But would you really want an unclaimed Doc, Cop, or roleblocker to claim?
Scum even have room to safely fakeclaim if there's two Ts in the lottery instead of zero.
I guess, though, that either full-cop Schezo or a doc/roleblocker/one-shot-cop-not-schezo could be considered confirmed town if they claimed now without a counterclaiming role appearing. (Not that Schezo needs to do such a thing) But they probably shouldn't unless they think they're probably getting lynched today, because the only result is eliminating them from our lynchlist. Plus I might be calculating this wrong and they might not be confirmtown from the claim >>
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/one-shot-cop-not-schezo
well no that's not possible at least not in confirmed-town-land
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Half of the reason I was "Defending" NNR was because I just wanted to give Schezo a hard time The other half was of course I was town reading him and none of the other people that were going against him at the time.
Yes, I purposefully quickhammered, putting someone at L-1 like that is really tasty and It's rare for me to be town and think that might be a good idea at the same time (It happens a lot when I'm scum, but I never do it because I'm worried people will know I'm scum when it happens.)
Anything else I could say on the matter would just be blatant justification. "Better to let the results speak than try to argue against the wave" or "I would gladly sacrifice a roleblocker to catch lying scum" or some such bs.
Scum should really have trusted PX was telling the truth, because I think he might still have been a myslynch today while Schezo and Oarfish are still hanging around. I figured Schezo would have been the kill, since I don't think he claimed to be one-shot before the day ended. (Unsure about this)
People I have a strong town read on are (Not including Oar and Schezo) Serela, Raikaria, Bardiche's slot, and uhh, that's it really. Which makes the lynch pool myself, Action Dan, and someone I don't feel would make for a good or accurate case
##Vote: ActionDan
As far as second scum go, I feel like Oarfish's case on Dan has strong points to it.
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Oarfish, when I read over something again, I may perhaps change my mind on things.
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why does it feel like I'm the designated mislynch of the day.
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probably because you're not really making cases against other people.
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the real answer is that I'm town and scum need to lynch town to win.
Anyway I have to leave but I have concluded that Schezo is really a cop and this wasn't a goonx2 + roleblocker massive gambit. Because that would be suicidal before PX claimed vig
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which means combo of B's and D's remaining, anywhere from 1-3
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I also revoke my town read of Bard. But will keep my town read on Serela
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ActionDan you keep saying you're town but you really haven't commented on anything other than roleshens for a pretty darn long time
and scum can easily talk about roleshens
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I skimmed End Of D1 and remembered why I felt good about Dan before, but when you come back please do scumhunting ;_;
Speaking of that, I need to do more of that too. E.g.:I'm not voting right now. I'll get on reading shortly~ Kinda hungry though.
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A smile will get you pretty far... but a smile and a gun will get you further
Zakeri (1): Raikaria
ActionDan (2): O4rfish, Zakeri
Not voting: Serela, Sky_Paladin, ActionDan, Darkninjaabc, Schezo
With 8 mooks kicking, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140304T18&p0=223&msg=The+end+of+day+three)
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RL immediately pulled me away but I at least got the preliminary PoE out of the way. It actually cuts out more than expected.
Sky_Paladin
Zakeri
ActionDan
Raikaria
I -guess- there's Bard's slot, but. Dan I've addressed (Good feeling from end-of-d1, but lack of scumhunting else is :/ and even end-of-d1 culminated in "You should lynch Cheez, even though he has 0 votes and deadline is in a few hours. ") Zak I'd rather not vote ATM but I haven't reread yet so maybe I'll change my mind, and... I need to reread for either of the other two >_>; It turns out I might have to leave to work on my day off (noooo) but otherwise I'll be rereading pretty soon.
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Might sound reportery but I'm only pointing out the parts that should be directly relevant/interesting in terms of potential alignments. Everyone knows about the ED1 SkyPal shenanigans so not restating.
-NNR's #50 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073088.html#msg1073088). Tentative vote/case on SkyPal, plus Dan immediately declares the post town.
-not relevant but O@rfish's (oh wait it's O4rfish... >_>;;) #59 about having a dream where he daycopped NNR and got a scum result is hilarious in hindsight
Oh yeah, here's that SkyPal section where he puts a good bit of effort into casing NNR, and then several minutes later jumps in with "Nevermind!" and votes Raikaria with an IMO pretty weak, nit-picky case and a sheep of Bard's one that I didn't exactly agree with as stated at the time.
Right now I'm gonna stick with Sky for 'Not me Over me' purposes, but I'll happily vote Bardiche or PX over him right now.
mixed with the "raikaria d1 playstyle weirdness shenanigans as happens every game" is this, which in itself just feels really weird >_> This was only page 4. Then again maybe this is just more "PLAYSTYLE WEIRDNESS SHENANIGANS", because the rest of the post it's in is full of content and stuff. Followed by that OMGUS on Bard soon after, but I probably would have been kinda miffed if Bard had used that case on me, so...
...so I just realized I'm going into everyone's expected Serela Waffles time ;_; Moving on with my reread
why -does- schezo have vore in his autocorrect
At #163 Raikaria's priorities drop to "I agree with NNR, and let's lynch a lurker", which isn't explicitly bad but it's not impressive :/
hoooooly wall against mitsuki from SkyPal. This is a lot of effort. People who remember SkyPal's meta better, do you think he'd do Post #188 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073825.html#msg1073825) as scum? This is a legit question I am asking and I am actually interested in getting a response. Anyway SkyPal's been absent between this and my last mention of him, mostly- not a point against him but just a note. Shortly after is where Dan's slew of catchup shows up, by the way
NNR thinks SkyPal is "pretty awful" and that "Mostly his cases are shit. Like, utterly."
Raikaria votes PX near deadline because Raikaria cannot comprehend PX's awkward near-day-end post. I have to admit I have some trouble interpreting it too, but... >> I dunno. Most of Raikaria's posts make me go "Well, I suppose I can understand them doing this, but", and having that reaction -so often- makes me concerned.
And no I don't want to lynch Zakeri, still. I guess I mostly ignored analyzing Bard much but nothing really jumped out at me from him, so.
Day 2 was mostly pretty cut and dry so I guess my reread is done here at the end of D1. Time to sort out my priorities from this.
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Okay.
SkyPaladin:I want other's opinions on him. I might want to lynch him today but it depends on how people feel about that Mitsuki wall, because it's pretty effortful. I guess I shouldn't be using that to pass him as being more town-y, though?
Raikaria:As said near the end of that reread post, my repeated "Well, it's not -that- bad, but..." reaction to his posts concerns me >>;
Not lynching Zak, I kind of didn't pay as much attention to Bard!slot as I should but I highly doubt we should be lynching it, all the non-mentioned living players are myself or townclears (Schezo, O4rfish) and I guess I'm taking a "wait-and-see" approach on Dan. That's okay though, I think I'm down with lynching SkyPal or Raikaria today.
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the question: why did Cheez die?
The answer of course, is that Cheez was the only one who suspected NNR and ActionDan of working together.
In no other respect was Cheez more killable n1 than say Zak or Bard or Schezo.
Let's look at NNR and ActionDan interactions d1.
RVS ActionDan votes himself. CF7 asks why, for which crime NNR votes him.
Bard writes a post, Dan reads him as town, NNR says he needs more info for a read.
NNR writes a post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073088.html#msg1073088), Dan reads him as town.
NNR asks Dan who he views as scummy, Dan says nobody.
Cheez writes his case on NNR based on him favoring Dan.
After no responses from NNR or Dan, Cheez switches to Raikaria.
Much later, NNR and Dan both make dodge posts. Dan never does post until more than 24 hours later.
Dan returns to the thread and calls Zak and Cheez scummy based on page 1 and 2, even though he had claimed to not be suspicious of anybody, at the bottom of page 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073107.html#msg1073107). He then votes Cheez because of Cheez's case on NNR.
I think NNR and ActionDan are 2/3 of the scumteam.
##Vote: ActionDan
Hmm, interesting case. I find it strange that Cheez was killed as well. For that matter I found Mitsuki a little strange too, but I think that one was probobly PX's Vig shot, since several people stated a dislike towards Mitsuki.
I'm going to sleep on this, I'm pretty busy atm. I warned you guys about this pre-game :/
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I don't get how that makes Dan scum. O4rfish are you arguing Dan is scum because the person he was trying to lynch got nightkilled? That's backwards >> Raikaria why are you agreeing? Well, no, you said it's "interesting", I guess that's different nevermind >>;
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It's nothing to do with the fact that He suspected Cheez8, but rather because Cheez8 was uncovering relations between NNR and Dan, which would become more incriminating once NNR flipped.
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Huh.
I see where you're coming from now, albiet I had to try really hard to accomplish this. XD
I don't think I quite agree, but I do -understand- why you people are voting Dan now, and it at least makes sense.
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lolwhat
zak you managed to contradict yourself in one sentence in your defense against quickhammer
>you like quickhammers
>you do it alot as scum
>but somehow 'it' never occurs :S
since given the context of your sentences , i would assume the it means quickhammering. if that really is the case i have no idea whats going on in your head because the first and third logic chains clearly dont connect.
and guys i want dan to die in a fire enough, but hes an oddball who should not really be lynched here because of the guaranteed weird things he does with roles. it may be satisfying to punch the people whom meta you dont agree with but theres certainly a juicer target(zak) here who quickhammered and buddied nnr very hard during D2. just look at the posts made by zak, he escalated from 'no guys nnr is town' to 'blaa4gh scumZ quickhammer' without any explanation. i honestly cannot ignore this gents.
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It's nothing to do with the fact that He suspected Cheez8, but rather because Cheez8 was uncovering relations between NNR and Dan, which would become more incriminating once NNR flipped.
Or, you know, after the vig killed ActionDan.
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In fact, if ActionDan had died n1 instead of Mitsuki, and Schezo had not claimed guilty on NNR, Cheez's death would have been easy enough to brush away.
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and yet in that hypothetical situation, Cheez being dead would still be valuable to scum.
Hmm, interesting case. I find it strange that Cheez was killed as well. For that matter I found Mitsuki a little strange too, but I think that one was probobly PX's Vig shot, since several people stated a dislike towards Mitsuki.
I'm going to sleep on this, I'm pretty busy atm. I warned you guys about this pre-game :/
Actually, PX killed Mitsuki because Skypal noticed she was defending me pretty hard. The three possibilities were: she was scum bursting town me; she and I were scum; and she and I were Masons. Nobody realized the truth, and we just had to hope for the best if we didn't want to claim right away.
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(I'm not Raikaria I swear)
(phone autocorrected buddying to bursting)
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>you like quickhammers
Correct
>you do it alot as scum
>but somehow 'it' never occurs :S
Incorrect.
I said I don't do it as scum because I paralyze myself worrying that people will think I'm scum for quickhammering. There are even times in the past I remember I could have quickhammered as scum and thinking back, a lot of those times I didn't do well anyways so I might have benefited from Quick hammering town then. That's something to think about for future games though.
I strongly disagree with the notion that the case on Dan is based on meta. I personally have been trying to ignore the fact that he doesn't bother to comment on alignments other than to give face value reads with no supporting evidence, but even with that hampering the situation I feel like the links between him and NNR, especially with Chees8's death involved look strong enough to be used as legitimate evidence against him.
The point about me going from zero to quicklynch in less than six seconds - it's important to think carefully about it. specifically about what possible motivations a scum aligned player and a town aligned player would go about the situation of having a townie claim guilty on a scumpartner.
Cut: I don't think Mitsuki being vigged is strange, since I was convinced by Sky's case at the end of day one. I think I even mentioned at the beginning of day 2 that I wanted to start the day voting her.
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ITT darkie misses what the case on dan is actually about
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My case on Mitsuki was legitimate, there was just one problem: The reason for her performance was because she was a mason and was presumably doing most of the things that I said were absent in her quicktopic. Which is really disappointing because we basically killed one of the strongest players because of my mistake.
My case took the same general form as my case on Rche, which is to say, I picked out the points that I thought were scummy, said why they were scummy, then summarised it and voted. In AUS mafia when I was scum I tried to make some (poor) cases against Raikaria which went badly and nearly got me lynched for it. I'll probably continue to make cases in this manner but I need to improve the accuracy. So far:
Rche = scum, yes!
Shadoweh = serial killer, no! (Because I was the serial killer trying to frame Shadoweh who I thought was scum).
Mitsuki = scum, no! (Because she was actually a mason).
So 1/3 isn't great, hopefully I can make it 2/4 or even 3/5 before the game is over.
Anyway I largely agree with Oarfish's case. It reads pretty much what I would accuse Dan of myself; largely he towncleared NNR and randomly pushed for a lynch of Cheez and then Cheez died. I think it fits the case of mafia that were panicking that somebody was too close. We could also argue that well maybe mafia hit Cheez to implicate Dan, but I think they would have been better off hitting Mitsuki to implicate Sky. Which is actually what I first thought happened when Mitsuki died. I thought Cheez was a vighit from Dan until PX claimed it.
Worst case scenario we lynch somebody who isn't actually helpful and we break the meta of only mislynching active and contributing townies.
##vote ActionDan
About role shenanigans:
We have a scum roleblocker and no serial killer.
TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, and we have MMCV + 1 role unaccounted for.
0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, and we have MMCV + 3 roles unaccounted for.
There's at least one towny out there who is sitting on a power role. If we consider the flavor it's probably a one-shot doc.
Considering the setup, that leaves my estimation of events very similar to what Serela posted earlier, except that she neglected to include her own name.
Serela
Sky_Paladin
Zakeri
ActionDan
Raikaria
Bardiche
Bard's slot is a bit scummy because he has thus far jumped on pretty easy no-hunting votes. Jumped on Serela OMGUS. Jumped on Sky for 'retcon'. Jumped on Zak for quickhammer. Has made one case on Raikaria that was good enough for me to vote along with when I had ironically already voted NNR.
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Considering the setup, that leaves my estimation of events very similar to what Serela posted earlier, except that she neglected to include her own name.
obv. I'm not going to vote myself you know
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[Bard's slot] Jumped on Zak for quickhammer.
???????????
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DNA voted for Zak because of Zak's quickhammer.
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I think Sky is saying that when Ninja attacked Zak for quickhammering, it didn't require much scumhunting of him. I dunno if that's a fair criticism, but I do think this game will be easy town win if scumteam is NNR ActionDan Zak.
It's all about the d1 interactions. Poor Mitsuki wasn't careful enough to hide her knowledge of me. Assuming ActionDan is scum, his interactions are obvious.
Bard/DNA doesn't have too many incriminating interactions unless both he and Skypal are scum. I think they are both town.
At this point, I would go so far as to say, if Dan is scum, Zak is too. If Dan is not scum, Schezo probably is, along with someone else, but this is less likely.
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>I won't quickhammer as scum because I am paranoid
>I disagree Dan wagon is based on meta
Status Quo: Dan is being usual Dan. Its ridiculous but it's true.
>I like to think CAREFULLY before quickhammers, so I quicklynched
>Hey guys it just somehow popped up but I would like to lead you all on a wild goose chase of vig and SK killshens.
Wow man, I don't understand any of that.
Let's just assume you are talking about truths here. Every single statement above made by you are true.
It's most likely a compliment.
##Unvote: Schezo
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
Then what's this. You are supposed to not quickhammer as scum, therefore you must be town for quickhammering. But wait! As you have just told us that you only quickhammers after you got a coherent train of thought. How could this quickhammering post happen when your opinion of NNR is something like this;
Because Town!NNR is calling out Schezo!Scum super hard and he figured he could get one more mislynch in before NNR manages to convince us that his poor play is the result of him not being town.
Honestly, Schezo's cop claim does look a little fake, specifically that he OMGUS shot and claims to have gotten a scum result doing that, as oppose to just trying to pick out someone that people are going to be super suspicious about like PX, Sky, or whoever Sky thought was scum. That plus the fact that he has no response to the call for a crumb other than "ugh" really feels like he's responding to being caught in a lie.
I was probably going to vote Mitsuki for information and then switch to PX but I'd rather see more of this develop. [Insert vote for Schezo]
(Yes I know Mitsuki flipped, but that was my plan before reading.)
Sure, you say. You did remark that there's the possibility of NNR lying, but the biggest problem here is obviously your vote. Both cases are lengthed similarly, but somehow in the end you decided to vote Schezo, then in the very next post you just quickhammered NNR. I seriously cannot see any justifications for your behavior in cutting off the day.
##Vote: Zakeri
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I have no idea why is me detailing a case on Zakeri, based on his interactions with everybody else and his posts made by D1, takes ''little'' effort.
Quoting is not an easy task, I am deciphering intent behind his incredibly vague statements which conflict themselves, and by pointing out said contradictions I am at the same time convincing you all while not doing what is a relatively much more simple option; just rant about empty analysises and conspiracy theory. Its not easy to provide examples for every argument but I am doing exactly that. How is that a lack of effort on my part. In fact I would argue that your one sentence empty accusation on me is more incriminating. But hey.
The point is that Dan!meta involves him being unresponsive to everything thus being scummy, I don't like it but I am playing to win, so I would want to actually avoid a likely mislynch. And guys, stop playing dumb. We all know quickhammering is scummy for it interrupts discussion. And with the direction D2 was going it's likely any further discussion would've lead to a massclaim. That's why scum would at least like to cut off discussion so a potential Godfather can be faked. Zakeri just doesn't have any justifications for quickhammering as town. Through pure logic I just believe Zakeri is more lynchworthy than Dan, whose ....[adjective] behavioral trend is inherently scummy. I just want to wait until I see more material from Dan before I vote for him, simple.
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DNA presenting coherent argument. :o
I think this deserves some appreciation, and since my guess is NNR AD Z ...
##Unvote, Vote Zak
Unfortunately this will require one more vote as AD will probably not vote for Zak unlike how Zak voted for AD.
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Darkie that's... not the case on dan
their case is all the interactions he made with NNR d1... apparently. I mean I don't really agree but I can see where they're coming from and it makes sense at least
Whilst I'd really rather not lynch Zakeri either I don't have anything I can do to point out "hey guys this is why Zakeri isn't scum", so >_>; It's not like anyone is interested in lynching Zak or Raikaria for that matter. I'll sit over here in my corner. ;_;
Also O4rfish, Zak is only l-2, not l-1.
Unfortunately this will require one more vote as AD will probably not vote for Zak unlike how Zak voted for AD.
and AD would surely vote Zakeri over himself getting lynched if it came down to it
Darkie should really give up the argument he's having with Zakeri because that's the kind of wordlogic game that's not going to help reveal anyone's alignment ever. Even if they're logically saying something incorrect, with minor stuff like that it really isn't going to give you much >_>; That being said if you think Zak's quickhammer is super scummy I can't really argue that it wasn't. I mean it wasn't -super- scummy but it was somewhat scummy, regardless of how much I may be happy he did it <_<; It'd be cool if we lynched caught scum quickly more often.
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It's not like anyone is interested in lynching Zak or Raikaria for that matter. I'll sit over here in my corner. ;_;
skypal or raikaria*
I didn't even get a response for my questions ;_;
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Darkie should really give up the argument he's having with Zakeri
Restated for EMPHASIS >:C I'm starting to consider that maybe overlooking Bard's slot was a bad idea after all. Someone mentioned Bard taking "easy" votes and DNA's just voting Zak off quickhammer and having this ridiculous argument over how he worded his post and about meta, which makes it look like he's actually grilling his scumspect except it's completely pointless.
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Serela.
You call the case on Dan as ''based off his interactions'' D1.
I am concluding that there's not enough interaction to draw a conclusion.
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Also, I believe the proper word that you are looking for to (wrongly) describe my case is ''semantics''.
I am not using semantics to condemn Zakeri here, I am saying his ideas contradict eachother. Zakeri told us his meta involves quickhammering only when there's enough evidence, when clearly there has not been any evidence at all.
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I do not find Raikaria being particularly incriminating, in the same way I do not find you, Serela, being incriminating because that's how everyone are. I am merely viewing the situation objectively here. I would lynch the person whose statements blatantly contradict themselves over the one whose known to act consistently in an undesirable manner any day of the week, because I am playing to win.
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DNA, who do you suspect for scum 3rd player?
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Five dollar discount on cement shoes, buy now!
Zakeri (3): Raikaria, Darkninjaabc, Oarfish
ActionDan (2): Zakeri, Sky Paladin
Not voting: Serela, ActionDan, Schezo
With 8 mooks kicking, it takes 5 to lynch.
You have 62 hours remaining.
Day 3 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140304T18&p0=223&msg=The+end+of+day+three)
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no clue. atm i do read raikaria and serela and dan scummy but as aforementioned its not convicting enough for them.
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Also O4rfish, Zak is only l-2, not l-1. and AD would surely vote Zakeri over himself getting lynched if it came down to it
While this is true I'll have some time tomorrow to look a bit more carefully at
Raikaria
Zak
Bard/DN (buuuuut recent posts look town no lies)
Skypal
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I skimmed End Of D1 and remembered why I felt good about Dan before,
Are you serious? He made an empty case on cheese and then said he wasn't voting for CF7 but wouldn't say why. That looks extremely scummy to me.
Not to mention d2, when he followed Schezo's result with a vote, then when Schezo was questioned he unvoted and started bringing up SK rolespec. Again, extremely scummy.
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Gosh it sucks that Bardiche's slot is the most null thing in the game.
People (Oarfish, Raikaria) trying to spec into why the n1 kill of Cheez died are goofy as shit. Even with a scumflip, pursuing that to make the Dan case and whatever else you're doing with it literally means almost nothing.
The Zakeri cases feel so by the book I'm not really sold on it. "Wow such a scum move day 2 let's get him" It's just meh.
Raikaria's case on Sky Paladin acknowledges that it lacks any conviction with the post after and then he immediatly switches. If he had just kept this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074848.html#msg1074848) it would have been an "ok I guess" kind of case but he makes that unneeded after it and immediately bails. The Zakeri hop again feels like it was just a "Zakeri did scum move #32" when it's possible for town to have committed the action too.
##Vote: Raikaria
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Raikaria's case on Sky Paladin acknowledges that it lacks any conviction with the post after and then he immediatly switches. If he had just kept this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074848.html#msg1074848) it would have been an "ok I guess" kind of case but he makes that unneeded after it and immediately bails. The Zakeri hop again feels like it was just a "Zakeri did scum move #32" when it's possible for town to have committed the action too.
##Vote: Raikaria
Except I swapped because then I checked about Zakeri's stance on NNR. I made a case on Sky_Paladin based on his claims about myself, then I read Zakeri and conceded he had a point there. I did state when I voted Sky that I hadn't read Zakeri yet, and it didn't take very long to go back one page and Ctrl-F NNR. For what it's worth, Sky is still pretty high on my potentially scum list for his severe misrep of me.
Anyway, after sleeping on it, I don't think that the connections O4rfish drew up between Actiondan and NNR are solid. At least, no more solid than my theory about Sky_Paladin's Day 1 flip-flop meaning something. I mean when I flipped I stated beforehand 'I still gotta read Zakeri'.
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Gosh it sucks that Bardiche's slot is the most null thing in the game.
People (Oarfish, Raikaria) trying to spec into why the n1 kill of Cheez died are goofy as shit. Even with a scumflip, pursuing that to make the Dan case and whatever else you're doing with it literally means almost nothing.
The Zakeri cases feel so by the book I'm not really sold on it. "Wow such a scum move day 2 let's get him" It's just meh.
Raikaria's case on Sky Paladin acknowledges that it lacks any conviction with the post after and then he immediatly switches. If he had just kept this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074848.html#msg1074848) it would have been an "ok I guess" kind of case but he makes that unneeded after it and immediately bails. The Zakeri hop again feels like it was just a "Zakeri did scum move #32" when it's possible for town to have committed the action too.
##Vote: Raikaria
I echo your sentiments regarding the kill speculation. Yet however your opinion on my case being too 'by the book' is perhaps subject to some alterations. For firstly not only I did question Zakeri about his intent behind the hammering for which he gave us a contradictory response, which means that theres more to just a 'by the book' accusation. But secondly I have also pointed out how Zakeri went from 'Vote Schezo' to 'kill NNR' in the span of one single post. Theres no valid justification for his behavior as town, so he can only be scum who intended to cut off discussion.
I would also remind Schezo that even if an argument is commonly used doesnt necessarily hinder its credibility. In the same way we all are currently using interactions to nail the scums and we accept theories which are based on that, the same applies to quickhammers too obviously.
Simply stating my argument is commonplace doesnt make it wrong.
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Actually at this point I'm going to go with:
Zak voted for ActionDan = they cannot both be scum.
DNA votes for Zak = they cannot both be scum.
Raikaria votes for Zak = they cannot both be scum.
That is three cases of 'cannot be scum' for Zak so the only way Zak can be scum is if he is scumbuddies with Serela.
Buuuuuuut who is not voting:
ActionDan, Serela.
This looks like a sever case of 'hedging your bets'. My pick for scum team are those two.
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In case it's not clear, there's only one chance for Zak to be scum, but there's four chances for Dan to be scum. There's five chances for Serela to be scum.
The only one not really in my POE is Raikaria because there is a chance of Raikaria/Serela or Raikaria/Danscum.
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But I have my own reasons for suspecting Raikaria is actually town but that depends on wether or not he was crumbing a town role on day 1.
Well, were you?
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Sky P I find your conclusions to be most nonplussing and your explanation indecipherable. Would you care to clarify?
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Skypal, are you really making a case on Serela based on a lack of interactions?
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I am trying simultaneous equations based on interactions.
On the surface: Most obvious picks are Zak, Dan.
Secondary factors: I think Raikaria is either roled town or scum, and I want a claim so that if he claims a role then the real roled towny can counterclaim. I don't need to know what his role is. I just want 'yes I am roled town' or 'no I am vanilla'. So I removed Raikaria from my equation until I get a result.
Complementary secondary factors: Zak hasn't commented on Raikaria for my initial overnight pick of Zak + Raikaria.
Final thoughts: Dan appears to be scum and hasn't voted. The only other player who hasn't voted is Serela. It looks like scum in LYLO pattern where they putt around three quarters of the phase and wait for one towny to vote and then jump on it. I am voting for Dan, and I am considering Serela as a potential scumbuddy but we don't have a flip of Dan so I'm not lining up lynches. But I do consider the alignment of Dan to indicate an alignment of Serela.
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I am afraid I still do not understand any of that , I am sorry.
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Ah okay.
I have to go to bed and I will resummarise it when I get up and have a fresh mind. I'm sorry my explanation isn't clear.
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SkyPal:X hasn't voted for Y so they can be scum together... this is an explanation that fills apart the moment you realize it's not uncommon for scum to bus eachother. You're really calling me scum because NO ONE VOTED ME FOR BEING SCUM? >_>; Isn't that support that I'm town or something because no one thinks I'm scummy?
Anyway, it is probably kinda meh that I'm not voting, I admit- but, I've declared that I definitely do not agree with the people voting Zak, that I kinda don't agree with the people voting Dan, that I'd maybe be coolbeans with voting SkyPal (I wanted some discussion about this but everyone ignored me ;_;) and I'd lynch Raikaria. So while it's meh that I haven't voted my priorities are clear as day and I can't just wait for someone to vote and then jump on it.
[quoteSkyPal]But I have my own reasons for suspecting Raikaria is actually town but that depends on wether or not he was crumbing a town role on day 1.
Well, were you?[/quote]
Please stop rolefishing. Like fucking seriously. I already went over this. Sure, if we have a roleblocker/doc they're pretty much confirmed town. But if they're not about to be lynching you don't fucking want them to claim. Those are important PRs and they're just going to get shot in the goddamn face tonight if they claim >_>; Slightly pissy because A.Just woke up and B.Already went over this once today for you and it's a Really Shouldn't Be Doing This thing!
We probably only have -one more town PR-. If you look at the way the setup is generated, that means they must be a doc or RB (or schezo is fullcop, but) and those are both capable of preventing the scum NK, and RB'er even generates guilties on scum (and later potentially clears on town), esp. with a lack of vig/sk generating extra kills.
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(Dan on the other hand hasn't had opinions since the end of d1 so he could actually realistically be guilty of what you're accusing him of)
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Acually looking at day 1 interactions while on the John.
Sky voted Serela in RVS.
Serela OMGUS.
NNR votes Sky for like all day.
Dan "NNR and Bardiche are town"
Then a little later
Dan "NNR and Bardiche and Serela are town"
Interactions are pretty bad
Need a flip of Dan to implicate/clear Serela or Bardiche probably.
Serela I don't want his role. I just want to know if roled (therefore incontestable TOWNY) or vanilla TOWNY (therefore fake crumbing. Day 1 and is scum). I don't know why phone auto corrects t o w n to TOWNY.
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Although your over reaction to my mathclaim is kinda suspicious tbh
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Serela I don't want his role. I just want to know if roled (therefore incontestable TOWNY) or vanilla TOWNY (therefore fake crumbing. Day 1 and is scum). I don't know why phone auto corrects t o w n to TOWNY.
You're really not listening! IF WE HAVE ANOTHER PR THEY ARE A DOCTOR OR ROLEBLOCKER. I think it's really unlikely we have 3 more PR letters for a variety of reasons. If Raikaria claims "I have any PR at all" then he's most likely a super useful one that's going to die immediately. That or he's scum, but, they're probably just claim VT for safety.
Then again maybe I'm overestimating how unlikely three more PR letters would be and being stupid, come to think of it, but, still, Raikaria isn't even in danger of being lynched today (regardless of being my top scumspect, there's not 4 people who suspect Raikaria significantly, and that's with YOU being the third) so why do we want him to claim and get shot tonight if he's a PR, again?
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Although your over reaction to my mathclaim is kinda suspicious tbh
...what
I'm telling you to stop because THAT'S NOT HOW MAFIA WORKS AND YOU'RE BARKING UP THE WRONG TREES. ;_; Everyone can you back me up here? Darkie and O4rfish already kinda went "uh... uh. What?" at you, but yeah, if you're really going to say "Oh you don't agree MAYBE YOU'RE MAFIA" then I apparently need a unanimous agreement that this kind of scumhunt tactic is totally unfunctional. :C
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I mean if you want mathmatical proof you can go apply this tactic to past games and watch as most of the time it falls on it's face
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now the interaction post you just made about AD isn't bad
Although I'd say it's a bit overreacting because TBH Dan seems to give out townreads like candy D1 for the past while, and postgame we tend to look back and go "welp town!dan you declared the entire scumteam town on ed1" :V But apart from this criticizm that's actually more of a valid mafia tactic so yeah. It's definitely better than the X voted Y So They're Not Scumbuddies thing.
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I really am in bed now and my wife is "turn that thing off I can't sleep" so last post yo
Point 1
It's great you want to defend Raikaria but they are quite capable of deciding for themselves what to say including "refuse to answer".
Point 2
You said "unlikely to be 3 more letters for a variety of reasons"
Let's talk about those reasons because Imsuddenly reAlly interested for no particular reason
What do you know that we don't? That kind of thing
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It's not even about Raikaria SkyPal. It's just about, it's not cool to go around asking PRs to claim for no reason so that mafia has free will to go shoot them in the face tonight >_> It's just not good mafia play.
Maybe I'll get into the letters thing in a minute but I'll go eat breakfast first I guess. It's really nothing interesting anyway, just some logic-crunching. I don't know anything you wouldn't if you stared at the setup generation page and thought about it long enough.
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(and as for the voteanalysis thing, that's about It's Bad To Let ANYONE In The Game Use Borked Scumhunting, as that means misguided town effort or scum breezing by happily which are both significantly unhelpful things, also it's putting me high on your priorities which doesn't help since it's using "Serela is a general townread that has no votes because no one suspects" to "Serela isn't being voted, and therefore has a high chance of being scum" which is ?????)
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wait why -aren't- I voting
I really do not know
Maybe it didn't occur to me because all the voting people's priorities were like, the exact opposite of mine, but now Schezo is even voting my top scumspect
##Vote Raikaria
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The business of the mafia is business.
Zakeri (3): Raikaria, Darkninjaabc, O4rfish
ActionDan (2): Zakeri, Sky_Paladin
Raikaria (2): Schezo, Serela
Not voting: ActionDan
Zakeri is at L-2
With 8 mooks kicking, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140304T18&p0=223&msg=The+end+of+day+three)
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Schezo, stop being a hipster. You can agree with the cases on Dan and Zak if they are logical, which they are.
Serela, what is your case on Raikaria even made of?
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Serela is being too Serela.
Yes I have a very strong gut feeling of him being scum in the regard he seems to be deliberately makimg his sentemces too long to be understood.
I will make a big case tomorrow when I have the energy to digest the celery, consider Serela as my third scum member read atm
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On a side note I would very much prefer if Serela can refrain from associating myself with himself in the matter concerning Sky P's case for I feel mocked in the regard that its Serela whose...nevermind
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Yes I have a very strong gut feeling of him being scum in the regard he seems to be deliberately makimg his sentemces too long to be understood.
...what?
Almost all the recent posts are purely complaining at SkyPaladin anyway >_>; They aren't even very relevant for anyone else.
O4rfish, Schezo isn't disliking the other cases because he's a hipster, he gave reasons he doesn't agree and just because "they're logical" doesn't mean people have to sheep them. I mean -I- don't agree with them either. Albiet as the day goes on and Dan continues to cruise I feel more meh about him :T
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My time scale for this game is not your timescales. Generally speaking. I will however get a good look at rain aria sky and zak today. As in sunday
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I have to admit I have some trouble interpreting it too, but... >> I dunno. Most of Raikaria's posts make me go "Well, I suppose I can understand them doing this, but", and having that reaction -so often- makes me concerned.
Serela. Is this your case on Raikaria? Because lemme ask you this question.
Has ActionDan ever done anything in this game that made you think "gee that post is more likely to come from town than scum" at all?
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Secondary factors: I think Raikaria is either roled town or scum, and I want a claim so that if he claims a role then the real roled towny can counterclaim. I don't need to know what his role is. I just want 'yes I am roled town' or 'no I am vanilla'. So I removed Raikaria from my equation until I get a result.
Oh you actually wanted me to claim if I was crumbing a role or not? I thought you were theorying that I crumbed a role, which I was not willing toi answer either way, to keep the mafia guessing.
Personally, I'd rather keep the mafia guessing. Maybe I am crumbing a role to inform you that I am important. Maybe I am crumbing a role as a decoy to the mafia as a VT so I get shot over someone more important. I do not feel like confirming if I was or was not being truthful about role-crumbing before, but I will confirm that I was [attempting to] crumb.
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On another note I just returned to my Uni home and it's a torrential storm which is so bad my mobile's signal has entered 'Airplane Mode'.
Yeah. May or may not be online for a while.
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On a side note I would very much prefer if Serela can refrain from associating myself with himself in the matter concerning Sky P's case for I feel mocked in the regard that its Serela whose...nevermind
(http://i.imgur.com/thmfjCK.png)
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Serela, what is your case on Raikaria even made of?
Most of Raikaria's posts make me go "Well... I guess that's not -that- bad because of _____, but...", and having that reaction over and over and over is a pretty bad sign IMO. For specific examples you can go review my reread of d1 post, #395
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Oh wow I totally missed O4rfish's last post. This is what I get for seeing the "you were cut by 2 posts" warning when I hit Reply and just using the Topic Summary below the Build-A-Post box to read the thread.
About ActionDan, I thought a decent amount of the analysis he was getting done in his catch-up at the end of D1 was pretty good. But as I admitted before, his attitude at the end of that was kinda meh, I guess >>; I kind of tiptoe around ActionDan because he has a unique playstyle/attitude or however you'd call it. For example, I really don't think I can blame his d3 play as scumplay so far just because... well... that's how Dan works.
Also I had thought we'd been in D3 for like 2 days already but it's actually only been like one and a third. Oh. I guess that makes it a bit less bad since it's more realistic he was just busy, I guess.
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About ActionDan, I thought a decent amount of the analysis he was getting done in his catch-up at the end of D1 was pretty good.
Please point that out because I just ISOd him and did not see any of this.
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by the end of page 3 I think this is the best bet. The expanded case on NNR looks more like an attempt to solidify a shoddy case more than actual scumhunting.
I can sorta understand where skypal is calling Mitsuki's posts chronic emptiness only because I am wary of her too, but a good example would be cheez who apart from the early NNR case has little else to show.
Well... there's these, but when I reread it again, it feels like I remembered there being more than this and looking again I don't see it... >> <<
plus several townreads etc, (It's easy for scum to give townreads but as long as there's actual scumhunting it's good to have those, you can't turn on them without a good reason or it just makes you look bad)
...I thought there had been more than that. ;_;
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quick check: Everyone thinks Serela is town right?
tbh we are 2 mislynches to spare but perhaps getting a few ducks in order is good at this stage. Like the above question. speak now or forever hold your piece
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oh wait one mislynch to spare.
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Oh right, SkyPal wanted to know why I think we only have one more PR letter instead of three. Well, we know we (most certainly) have MMVC??? right now.
There was no innocent child, so don't have 3 Ms. Technically another mason pair is possible I guess, in addition to having a B or D, but...
Schezo is a cop. We could have 2 Cs and he could be fullcop hiding so he's less likely to be nightkilled, but if there's more Cs that means either we have a one-shot cop who hasn't claimed their result (I guess if it was a useless result like their target died...) or we have a fullcop apart from Schezo who...
...well I guess it's not that weird that the fullcop apart from a one-shot schezo wouldn't have claimed yet...
...you know what nevermind ;_; I guess my reasons don't hold up as strongly as they did in my head. I still think it's very unlikely that much power is still out there due to there being no evidence of it (unless it was another masonpair which leaves none until death) but I guess I don't actually have strong reasoning for that being the case like I thought I did. Oops. >_>;
cut:Well apparently SkyPaladin thinks that because I haven't been voted by people, I'm very likely to be scum. >_>;
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And we have two more mislynches before lylo, assuming no kills are stopped. If one was, we'd have 3 mislynches.
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Also Darkie -just- started saying he thinks I'm scum because of... me being wordy? Idk
(I wouldn't be restating this if Dan hadn't just asked)
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So Serela. The only thing that makes ActionDan seem townish to you is when he attempted to discredit Cheez's case on NNR.
This is part of my case AGAINST him.
Like, I'm not trying to attack you personally (cough Schezo cough), but can you see why this is frustrating to me?
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Sorry that cough was supposed to include DNA instead of Schezo.
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So Serela. The only thing that makes ActionDan seem townish to you is when he attempted to discredit Cheez's case on NNR.
This is part of my case AGAINST him.
Oh I can imagine why that looks suspicious post-flip
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Requesting a sub be prepared in the event of the worst. At this point I am 50/50 on if I can honestly continue with this game and put in enough time.
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I am removing Schezo/Oarfish/myself/Raikaria from the suspect list because of uncounterclaimed town, confirmed town, I know I'm town, uncounterclaimed town.
Raikaria's claim is as good as Schezo's until somebody decides to counter claim him. That leaves five possible scum players and a finite set of possible scumteams.
NNR + Serela + Zakeri
NNR + Serela + ActionDan
NNR + Serela + DNA
NNR + Zakeri + ActionDan
NNR + Zakeri + DNA
NNR + ActionDan + DNA
The goal at the moment is to find scum teams that make sense, find the common denominator, and lynch that person. Interactions with another player are not conclusive unless they also include interactions with NNR. Note that failing to mention or comment on NNR is also an interaction. Selectively ignoring players is a technique where the scum avoids mentioning/commenting on their buddy, thus making it impossible to prove a direct interaction event. It's much harder to prove that something doesn't exist than it is to prove that something does exist (You just have to find it).
Unfortunately because Schezo made his guilty claim so early, day 2 interactions were soured. Scums knew that the claim was legit and strongly arguing against it was folly, and going along with it probably best.
The goal of interaction analysis is to see if we can rule out some scum teams.
Examples: There's lots of interaction between Dan and Serela, in particular, they both love to town clear each other for no particular reason. There's some interaction between NNR, ActionDan and Serela, specifically, Dan town cleared all of them, and NNR countervoted me when I voted for Serela, and Serela and NNR both made 'r u serious' responses to me and both voted for CF7 mislynch with the same general 'its too hard to read' case. Finally, Serela was the first person to vote NNR after Schezo's claim, after posting 'oh dear' all on it's own.
So the scum team of NNR, Serela and ActionDan is not only plausible, it's also likely. There's plenty of interactions and the first half of day 1 is especially incriminating.
When I consider a scum team with Zak, your options are +Serela and ActionDan, or +Serela and DNA. I always lumped in Zak with Oarfish and Mitsuki for associations so it's kind of odd that they would turn up masons and Zak is *a mystery*.
So let's go through and examine Zak's interactions. We already know that NNR/Serela/Dan had a lot of chats, so I'm mostly interested in what Zak had to say about them, and what NNR/Serela/Dan/DNA have to say about Zak.
Vote for NNR (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1072996.html#msg1072996) because of dropped vote on ActionDan.
Countervotes Sky (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073218.html#msg1073218) because of a vote on DNA.
Quote: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073444.html#msg1073444) "I also ignored Serela because it's too early for him to be scum yet." Main point is dismissal of DNA's case on Raikaria.
Mentions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073712.html#msg1073712) of Dan, NNR, DNA. This post is probably worth exploring in greater depth but I'm just scanning for now.
Quote: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074015.html#msg1074015) "I don't have an argument for Dan's case on Cheez8 but it would help if he provided a link to Cheez's case on NNR so we could at least go back to recheck how the case buildup actually reads rather than just taking his word for it." This, honestly, is the post that seems true to me the most. I can't really consider a case of Zak/NNR/Dan.
Quote: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074056.html#msg1074056) "If Mitsuki does turn out to be scum, I think that clears Me, Oarfish, Raikaria, and suggests that CF7 and Sky may both be town as well. " Not the kind of thing scum would say, since they know that Mitsuki is town.
Well, that was day 1. Day 1 looks okay for Zak. Day 2 looks pretty bad though.
Response to Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074409.html#msg1074409) and votes Schezo after cop claim.
Congralates Dan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074418.html#msg1074418) for role speculation.
Openly (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074440.html#msg1074440) states that we can't trust the cop result.
Quickahmmer (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074500.html#msg1074500).
Day 3.
Votes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074917.html#msg1074917) for ActionDan. Townclears for Serela, DNA.
Final (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075047.html#msg1075047) comments as argument with DNA.
Looking at this in assessment; on his own Zak looks pretty scummy. Early day 1 interactions look scummy. But who is his team? Not DNA, who he debates with and doesn't vote. And not ActionDan, because he defended NNR but is abandoning ActionDan. That leaves only Serela, which there are considerable interactions for.
Therefore, I'm going to exclude the cases with Zak except for this specific one.
NNR + Serela + Zakeri
NNR + Serela + ActionDan
NNR + Serela + DNA
NNR + ActionDan + DNA
Now we are down to four viable cases! And three of them have Serela in it.
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uh you do realize raikaria claimed "Maybe I am a PR and maybe I am not a PR" right
I'unno why you're calling him confirmed town
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inb4 he claimed for Raikaria
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OK, let's look at Bardiche/DNA.
Votes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073030.html#msg1073030) Serela for OMGUS.
That's, uh, actually everything of note from Bardiche in the topic. He mostly focused on Raikaria and myself.
Day 2 absent.
Day 3
Let's lynch a Zak. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074855.html#msg1074855)
Dan please post more. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074871.html#msg1074871)
Argues with Zak (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075034.html#msg1075034) and then...
Votes for Zak. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075072.html#msg1075072)
More on Zak. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075074.html#msg1075074)
Response to Serela. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075085.html#msg1075085)
Serela is scummy. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075266.html#msg1075266)
That's all folks. Unfortunately that doesn't clear DNA on any cases except for Zak; so simply reinforces that there's no chance of NNR/DNA/Zakeri scum team.
With the way that DNA is shaping up against Serela, I'm also thinking there's no chance of NNR/DNA/Serela.
I'm not going to ISO Serela. Every time I've lynched Serela she's always town. It's so frustrating and cruel.
cut by;
I'm saying that he crumbed a power role and he confirmed it. Therefore unless another towny wants to counterclaim him, it's as good as saying he's town.
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So at this point my remaining scumteam picks are:
NNR + Serela + Zakeri
NNR + Serela + ActionDan
NNR + ActionDan + DNA
There's two chances of Serela scum. There's two chances of ActionDan scum. There's one chance of Zakeri scum. And there's one chance of DNA scum.
I think that the team of NNR/ActionDan/DNA seems unlikely because interactions exist but they are very weak.
Therefore, I want to vote Serela as scum in both of my two remaining team picks, without even considering the several posts of nonsense and garbage in day 3.
##unvote
##vote Serela
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SkyPaladin.
Raikaria claimed that he may or may not be a VT or a PR.
He is by no means clear. And a real PR has no reason to counterclaim it. >_>; He didn't really claim anything. I'm not sure if admitting he crumbed a PR is important if he's not actually a PR. Maybe I should find it suspicious if he isn't one? I dunno. We've been over him having an objectionable playstyle already this game and he said "maybe if I'm a VT I wanted scum to NK me over actual PRs!" so whatever :V
But yeah, if you're hunting scum explicitly off of trying to find a whole team that makes sense, passing a not-confirm-town off as confirmed town might mess up your findings >_>
...huh? Bard did more than that D1. You only poked his RVS vote... I'll respond more in a sec I need to go pay attention to boiling pierogies I GOT CUT BUT I MUST PIEROGIE
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I'm not going to ISO Serela. Every time I've lynched Serela she's always town. It's so frustrating and cruel.
*Giggles*
without even considering the several posts of nonsense and garbage in day 3.
And what are these garbage posts I made? The posts telling you that goading PRs to claim right now is Bad and that scum bus eachother so you can't just use who voted who to clear people? >_>;
Anyway, I think your Serela vote is garbage. You literally haven't used a single thing about my play to justify me being scum. Not only that, but your team!hunt is flawed because you assume Raikaria is confirmed town for being a PR... which he never said he was. What is the crumb, anyway? I want to see this crumb you think you see from Raikaria.
Take a step back and think about what a theoretical scum!Raikaria would do when a townie starts talking about how they think Raikaria was crumbing a PR day 1. Should they say "Yes, I'm a PR"? No, because why would they? They could get counterclaimed, they could get outed for not being NK'd later as a cool PR, they're not under pressure so they don't need to claim anyway. But if they say "No, I'm a VT" they can't claim a PR either. Raikaria gave you a yes no maybe answer that doesn't say anything about his role or alignment >_> The fact that you're using pure PoE to vote me whilst giving people town passes who don't deserve it is blasphemy.
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(but at the same time skypal has put so much effort in and done a few such incredibly strange things, that it would be very hard for me to see him as scum, so I can't even OMGUS him ;_;)
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you say "Raikaria isn't counterclaimed so he's town" but I mean dear god what is supposed to be counterclaimed when he explicitly didn't claim anything and only admitted that he wanted to look like he was crumbing something
If I was a PR and counterclaimed that and Raikaria said "oh sorry I'm VT" I'd feel pretty dumb. And then if Raikaria was scum he'd both have a free pass (he made it clear he wasn't claiming a PR) and a PR would be outed for him to nk. Not that anyone would ever counterclaim that, because there's really nothing to counterclaim there, just as this example shows.
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I said it earlier; but if there is a counterclaim then Raikaria was fake crumbing, and we lynch the confirmed scum. I would consider this a good trade. If I was roled right now, I would be saying "Raikaria is scum ++vote".
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As I said about the suggestion that I would be clear of Mitsuki flipped scum earlier, I would not clear me based off my claim. All I did was confirm that I was crumbing a PR during Day 1. I gave two possibilities for my intent of this, but purposefully remained vague because I do not want to give scum information.
I like to be clear Sky, but I also don't want to be clear when I'm NOT clear. That sort of thing leads to more false clears which may let the actual scum slip through the net.
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i'unno if I'd call a fakecrumb confirmed scum but as I said I'm not entirely sure how to treat a fakecrumb
I see where you would get that reaction from it though
cut by oh hi raikaria
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Also I have a bad habit of getting complacent when I'm 'clear'. So yeah, don't clear me when I'm not clear.
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I -totally- do that B)
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NOW THEN BACK TO COURSEWORK SO I CAN STAY IN THIS GAME IF I GET A BUTTLOAD OF WORK TOMORROW.
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SkyPal does this affect your stance `-`
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If all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail
Zakeri (3): Raikaria, Darkninjaabc, O4rfish
ActionDan (1): Zakeri
Raikaria (2): Schezo, Serela
Serela (1): Sky_Paladin
Not voting: ActionDan
Zakeri is at L-2
With 8 mooks kicking, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140304T18&p0=223&msg=The+end+of+day+three)
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Bad news, Voting analysis reveals nothing.
I'm not surprised since day two was my fault, but I reserve the right to be angry at the fact that everyone on day one decided to leave their vote on a lone person. Those who did might as well not have had a vote to begin with.
I would like to take the time to encourage Dan's lynch.
as for the case on Serela, I'm not sold on Sky's line of reasoning. It's much too late in the game to be defending town reads unless they're ironclad, so I'll wait until after the obligatory reread. I will be trying to get that done with sometime tomorrow at the latest since I'm up on the chopping block today.
Ironically, Raikaria's insistence to not let people clear him has caused me to want to clear him harder. I think it'd be too easy as scum to fall into the trap of smiling down on people who don't consider you actually scum. That's not to say he's approaching confirmed status but outside that I don't want to lynch him today.
The best way to deal with a Fakecrumb is to ignore it. It's not suppose to be town bait to begin with, and it means nothing for alignment.
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The only thing I will add to it is that this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073950.html#msg1073950) might be what got PX killed.
Since Oarfish can get valid dream detective results, I want to believe in a world where innocent ActionDan can townclear the entire scumteam on day 1.
##unvote
##vote Zakeri
That's L-1, by the way.
I think Zak is scummy as all hell, I just thought a flip of Serela would be more telling. His last post of "I can't find anything noteworthy but hey let's lynch Dan, defend Serela, and superclear Raikaria, but you should ignore fakecrumbs" doesn't reassure me at all.
That said Dan still hasn't voted so I'm expecting him to hammer. Why we didn't lynch him when we had the chance I don't understand.
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Actually.
##unvote
I don't have it in me to just leave it like that.
Consider my vote on Zak until closer to phase end.
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Ah, so that's what failing to close your bolded bracket looks like. [/b]
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PX got killed for being a confirmed town PR
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PX got killed for being a confirmed town PR
This, I highly doubt that scum would want THREE confirmed town alive. [Schezo, O4rfish and PX]
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I'm going to go with "i don't have a clue who scum is".
We should no lynch tomorrow regardless of what happens today
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-Town has to lynch. If there is no majority at the end of the day then to one with the most votes will get lynched, a tie will result in a random lynch of one of them.
Aside from the fact that there is no no-lynch option, why do you suggest we no lynch 'regardless'?
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It doesn't really seem like zak is scum. Skypal really only makes sense with raikaria. (Or maybe dna). Serena is still town (i gotta have one right) and raikaria "might" be a pr or actually not lol. Skypal raikaria is actually where I'm leaning. Pedit missed that. No lynch with one confirmed town so scum wifom's the kill
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wrong thread `__________________`
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Hey guys.
I apologize for biting my tongue but I am genuinely too exhausted today to crack at Serela's posts. Though I am convinced wholly Serela is scum simply because I cannot begin to make head or tails of his behavior as town. Also, the abundant usage of creative yet indecipherable terms such as Not A Nice Thing To Do, and various other stunts simply strike me as scum trying to turn down the appetite of town players. I have no qualms over lynching him.
So meanwhile I am going to make some responses to obviously much more telligible and manageable posts. Sky pal, I disagree with your chances analysis because arguments do vary between solid or simply fluff, and there's bussing to be factored in. You can't simply attempt to solve it like a equation by ignoring all other unknowns so that it makes sense to you. Thanks.
ActionDan reasoning behind everything else consolidate lynch on you. I was making it clear enough I am displeased with your behavior but I am willing to give you extra time to prove yourself worthy or summat in lieu of that's how you play most games. However if you are insistent on being unhelpful then I do not see why can't you be the lynch candidate for today.
Raikaria...pretty null for now, moving on.
Zakeri I would prefer if you can actually stop pretending the quickhammer and cases on you aren't there and defend yourself.
Elsewise people might get the impression you are trying to fake amnesia.
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ActionDan reasoning behind everything else consolidate lynch on you. I was making it clear enough I am displeased with your behavior but I am willing to give you extra time to prove yourself worthy or summat in lieu of that's how you play most games. However if you are insistent on being unhelpful then I do not see why can't you be the lynch candidate for today.
*ActionDan should provide more reasoning behind everything else I would advocate for a consolidation lynch on you
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Also, the abundant usage of creative yet indecipherable terms such as Not A Nice Thing To Do
HOW IS THIS INDECIPHERABLE? ;_;
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I just recalled a term you came up with, its not representative of your posts. Go read your own posts objectively.
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We don't need a consolidation lynch. Kill action Dan tomorrow.
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Its pointless to be fixated on your opinion because you will be ignoring flips and kills and etcetera.
Besides I can probably confirm the setup after today.
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I mean we can probably guess the setup.
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Well I already guessed the setup IMO, it's just a matter of who the Doc/RB is.
As evidenced by my vote I don't think it's Raikaria >_>; But I guess it could be, who knows.
Anyway obv. O4rfish would change their mind if necessary based on flips or whatever, taking words too literally is a waste of time.
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I did kind of want to vote bard out of reaction for making a serious vote, but I'm glad I didn't though since his reasoning seems pretty solid though, after Serela's "it's RVS so w/e".
Right now I'm just a bit suspicious of Skypal and Cheez, the former for discounting some pretty good advice (and voting Serela for 'being competent') and the latter for having some wishywashy opinions with a ?serious? vote on me for ??? (probably bad!) reasons.
Dan REALLY needs to stop making a habit of announcing townreads in RVS. It's annoying enough I'd almost vote him for it.
"lol RVS" does seem to be kind of the standard though, but it seems we're trying to get out of it which is good.
Tentative vote on Skypal for now I guess, I don't want to OMGUS and I have nothing better.
##Unvote
##Vote: Skypal
So this post along with zak being third on the bandwagon seems like zak town. Scum isn't going to be afraid to omgus a scum bud.. which suggests none are at that point in time. Which includes zak.
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Raikaria just isn't scum. Unless someone else is the power role, then yes he is. I don't particularly care to out this sensitive info because it's super obvious.
Leaves
Skypal
Bard
Serela.
At this point...
##vote Skypal
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Mazzini Autorizza Furti Incendi Avvelenamenti
Zakeri (3): Raikaria, Darkninjaabc, O4rfish
ActionDan (1): Zakeri
Raikaria (2): Schezo, Serela
Sky_Paladin (1): ActionDan
Not voting: Sky_Paladin
Zakeri is at L-2
With 8 mooks kicking, it takes 5 to lynch.
You have less than 24 hours left in the day
Day 3 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140304T18&p0=223&msg=The+end+of+day+three)
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It's been a couple of hours and there's absolutely nothing from Zak with, now, less than 24 hours to go. I don't feel bad about this now, especially as Dan has seen fit to not vote for any of the likely scum suspects. We have plenty of time to vote switch if Zak suddenly comes out with an undeniable case elsewhere.
##vote Zakeri
Now it's L-1. Zak, what do you have for us?
***
Serela, the main reason I have issues with your posts (and I guess others too) is that there's only a couple of reasons to post.
1 - You are making a claim.
2 - You are voting or changing your vote.
3 - You are defending against another player's claim, or defending your own claim.
4 - To answer another player's questions, or to question another player.
If you're not doing any of those things (or any other thing that I forgot to include) then your post is basically an empty content post. Empty content posts are scummy because they give the impression of doing something when you're actually not doing anything; this is the kind of thing scum want to do and let slide because scum in theory want to appear to be busy little bees that are active and contributing. Empty content posts from townies waste the town players time trying to find the actual important info in the posts and can confuse them. I basically read your posts once, find half a dozen scummy things, then purge it from memory because it's a waste of time trying to make a case on Serela by what she says. What she does (where she votes) and what supposed scumbuddies do is probably the only viable way of finding scum!Serela.
I said 'in theory' because we have players like Dan who actively powerlurk and don't scumhunt while throwing out townclears and scumpicks apparently randomly even while playing as town.
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Dan,
The quote you made was of NNR saying that Cheez and I were scummy. As it happens, you also claimed out of thin air that Cheez was scum. NNR was scum. Cheez then died for picking the relationship between you and Dan, and was town.
In that same post that you quoted, NNR discredits votes against you by saying you are annoying rather than scummy.
In that same post, the confirmed scum votes for me and you made the argument 'Scum dont mind to omgus a buddy' and therefore Bardiche must be town, but then you ignore that scum DO vote for Sky, so if I'm a scumbuddy, he wouldn't have voted for me. But he did. And, by coincidence right, you are voting me now too.
Then you follow it up with a post that rehashes why I cleared Raikaria as town earlier in the day, "Raikaria just isn't scum. Unless someone else is the power role, then yes he is," and finish it off with this beautifully contradictory line:
"I don't particularly care to out this sensitive info because it's super obvious."
......
Like, are you even trying anymore?
Dan is buddying to Bard and Raikaria, trying to get them to buy into Dan is an okay guy. It's scummy because he only presented reasons that are either a) already presented by somebody else or b) is dependent on what scum have said or done.
I MEAN SERIOUSLY.
It just looks like an excuse to wagon anybody but Zak. I can only assume he is the Godfather and you are desperately trying to get a mislynch on to yourself, hoping that Schezo has another cop check somehow and that he will misclear Zak. Because it's the only way I can understand what you are doing. And the only reason you would risk your neck like this to try and buy a mislynch is if we are, in fact, currently holding your scumbuddy at L-1.
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If raikaria isn't the power role he's scum. He spent all D1 crumbing it. Otherwise I'd have voted him because I don't like his posts.
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Also tbh if I were scum right now I'd have voted zak and either played to get some bus cred or sac myself for the mislynch depending.
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If raikaria isn't the power role he's scum. He spent all D1 crumbing it. Otherwise I'd have voted him because I don't like his posts.
Also tbh if I were scum right now I'd have voted zak and either played to get some bus cred or sac myself for the mislynch depending.
Would it be too impolite of me to say
"lol whatever"
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I mean, those posts seem exactly like scum WIFOM when they're on the gallows, and the only exception is that ActionDan isn't today's lynch.
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Also tbh if I were scum right now I'd have voted zak and either played to get some bus cred or sac myself for the mislynch depending.
and i didn't even realize this since I have been so focused on Zak and Dan actually being the scum team, but ...
isn't this post basically admitting Zak is scum?
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mislynch = the case where he's town
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work sucks etc
I realized that the day ends before my shift tomorrow does and I go in early so I won't have the time or brain to do anything but voteswitch.
I guess I'll have to finish any qualms I have with the current situation tonight. :T
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(work sucks was supposed to imply that "just got home from work and tiredness" but I realized it really doesn't)
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Serela, the main reason I have issues with your posts[snip]
If you're not doing any of those things (or any other thing that I forgot to include) then your post is basically an empty content post.
So basically Paladin is saying all my posts to try to tell him "No, dude, you're doing it wrong" are scummy
RIP my everything. I'm not going to stand by and watch you help town lose the game. >:T If you can't deal with criticism get out, and considering that's what basically all my posts that you're complaining about are about, yes, this is exactly what you are roundaboutedly saying.
Anyway
I wish Dan would make it easier to believe he's town because I really want to, but giving good townreads (IMO at least) and then PoEing the rest without reason is ;_; Despite how much I would LOVE to do that, ALL THE TIME, Dan stop living my dreams you aren't even getting lynched for doing it aaaaa
Unless Dan is either wifoming or not caring because he's not at the chop block then I still don't really see him as scum. I am using his questionable meta to come to this decision, yeah.
But he's the closest thing to a counterwagon for Zak, in terms of people being willing to lynch him even if they're not necessarily voting him, which brings me to... I've been ignoring analyzing Zak's posts for most of the day considering he was my best town read not counting confirmtowns >> Now I don't even know if I'd want to throw Dan out over Zak. I guess Zak would probably get lynched -tomorrow- otherwise anyway.
...that's a really wimpy reason to go along with this happening. But lo and behold, my top scumread is either going to be turbolynched or hailed as town depending on whether or not there's another PR so there's nothing further to address there, my secondary scumread SkyPal is... well, maybe my reasons for deciding today he's probably town are bad reasons to clear someone? I'm having PoE issues here with "but they can't all be town, Serela!" Schezo hardly even existed today as far as I can remember (did he make, like, 1 post worth anything?) and ActionDan can't convince anyone other than me of anything so even if they're my logical town friends to get cool things done they won't help me out in the end. Zakeri is kind of useless so far even if he's adorable, SkyPal and Darkie make me go AUGH WHY constantly.
I'm surrounded by either useless or illogical people and my top scumread's lynch is completely out of my hands ;_; I stopped posting much for the past little while because it's like, what am I even doing anymore.
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RIP My Votecount
Zakeri (4): Raikaria, Darkninjaabc, O4rfish, Sky Paladin
ActionDan (1): Zakeri
Raikaria (2): Schezo, Serela
Sky_Paladin (1): ActionDan
Not voting: No one \o/
Zakeri is at L-1!
With 8 mooks kicking, it takes 5 to lynch.
You have 13 hours left in the day
Day 3 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140304T18&p0=223&msg=The+end+of+day+three)
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I will retire from mafia and take up acting. My first play shall be titled RIP My Votecount. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=737YjL1doGY) I will turn my mafia tragedies into hollywood gold.
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You know that game recently where the same votecount got colored and reposted like 20 different times, that will be a good starring votecount I think.
(SkyPaladin are you CRYING IN DESPAIR at all my useless posts yet)
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I'm surrounded by either useless or illogical people
:C
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I'm sorry o4rfish I forgot about you :C You're literally modconfirmed town and you don't make big posts nor do they make me want to cry
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oh serela you're just so adorable.
I am indeed town. It wouldn't be much of a stretch for me to be scum this game but I just am not.
I plan to let the 13 hours tick by.
Mind you guys, I think I've only reread up to page 8 for my opinions thus far.
I think if Raikaria is town, the scum team is skypal / bard(DNA). If only because of that early case that got strung out a while from skypal unto bard. It was indeed bad. Like everyone noticed that the first two points were contradictory. it was so blatant I think one could almost say it was null because it drew attention... but maybe just bad scumplay and it got called out. Bard's vote on skypal ---> Raikaria soon anyway and it's not heard of again.
Uh. I kinda forgot what happened after. Possibly a product of not reading.
but I am more or less POEing to Skypal. so people calling me out on that are correct? But I mean what were you expecting? 'SERELA IS THE SCUMS - LOOK AT HER POSTS - WATCH ME WITCHHUNT HER'? (that kinda of applies to everyone but I sorta did that and went the other way on Zak etc.)
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I'm sorry o4rfish I forgot about you :C You're literally modconfirmed town and you don't make big posts nor do they make me want to cry
Mind you guys, I think I've only reread up to page 8 for my opinions thus far.
make me want to cry
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I think this is somewhat excusable given how ActionDan is scum and needs to lie about things. Scum wants to obfuscate the town's scumhunting, and claiming to be a town bad player is apparently a valid strategy as scum.
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I see things like this and I really think to myself "why are we not lynching actiondan".
Going to bed. Will be back in the morning a few hours before deadline to voteswitch if, well, whatever happens.
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Lynch Serela tmr.
Regardless of circumdtances
I am done with this
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You literally want to lynch Serela over playstyle DNA. Every post it's just because of how Serela talks and now why that makes him scum. And I will disagree. The logic may be "sound" for a Zakeri lynch be really I'm not feeling it. It just feels like an opportune mislynch and I can't find myself supporting it.
It has nothing to do with me "being a hipster" Oarfish. You can lynch Dan since he hasn't read half the game though.
Um. Sky Paladin needs to stop dismissing Raikaria as a lynch suspect at all for pulling a null action. What the hell?
And his case on Serela is that he can't make a case because Serela babbles and I don't even know if he suspects Serela hmmm
As for like that interaction of reading into a night 1 nightkill to make a case on Dan. Uh no. Yes he's suspect the lurk but seriously Cheez's death could have been for any reason and it's worse to assume it had a connection than to just leave it at null.Lynch Serela tmr.
Regardless of circumdtances
I am done with this
why?
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Every single time Serela speaks, a batch of my brain cells fizzles.
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Just passing through in between shifts.
Serela
"why are we not lynching actiondan"
I know.
Schezo
Sky Paladin needs to stop dismissing Raikaria as a lynch suspect at all for pulling a null action.
Until somebody counterclaims, POE says he is town. The end. I can't understand your reason for voting him.
I also don't understand Serela's reason for voting Raikaria, especially as she was so adamantly defending Raikaria and then when I picked Serela as scummy for not voting, she suddenly voted for Raikaria.
There's just a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense going on, partly because the phase has dragged on for so damn long with nothing really happening.
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yeah except for that part where Raikaria hasn't claimed anything.
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Also I guess it's worth pointing out that the only one defending Zak is Dan, and Zak hasn't actually defended himself or made a counter attack and has voted for Dan.
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So, uh, everyone's spending D3 theorying who else is scum after Zakeri's flip? It's almost like we've all decided to lynch him but no-one is gonna hammer.
I don't think Sky's scum if I'm town, seeing as he keeps insisting I'm clear.
Schezo I claimed I was crumbing D1, but it may not have been truthful crumbing. Also I claimed town. I ain't claimed a role because I wanna confuzzle the scums.
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Sky's case on me is worrysome because it's practically the exact same case he made on me in An Untitled Mafia, the only real different being that it lacks the parts that I told him raised enough red flags for me to be certain that he was scum in that game. I don't know if this is legit gut acting up, or if I'm just being paranoid, but it's enough to make me want to switch votes to him.
I'm clearly at the point where I'm overthinking things to the point of regressing, since pretty much everyone worth holding an opinion on is starting to read full null to me right now, and since I decided to spend the day with friends instead of reading, my brain is turned to mush and I'm up way past the deadline for sleeping. The strongest feeling I have right now is paranoia regarding his case against me, and remembering why I hated the way he was talking early day one - specifcally the part where he makes a bad case on Bardiche and instead of acknowledging others telling him it's bad, he sweeps it under the rug with a case on NekoNekoRex (Who flipped scum) and then immediately switched to voting with the case on Raikaria one post later. Relevent post for this are 69, 98, and 99.
I still don't like Dan, it would be easy for him to compare my previous day's posting style to my town style from other games and claim he thinks I'm town while letting me fade away into the twilight. It would also help him avoid suspicion compared to just quickhammering me to get it over with.
There's nothing to say about Sky's vote on NNR but then there's really nothing to say about the wagon in general that changes my opinion on anyone. Serela was the first one to dissect the logic behind Schezo's claim and made the right choice, but even though I want to throw up the Serela is always town stop picking on him hands into the air, Logic is a very easy thing for a scum to use to his own advantage, especially when bussing other scum, so I'll just have to throw up my null hands instead augh.
(Although speaking of using logic, now that I think about it, Skypal trying to come up with scum pair interactions looks more and more suspicious. It's actually clever, but it seems he's trying to set up lynches in a row while disguising it as scumhunting via typical methods of logic synthing)
I think the Crux of the Case against Raikaria is the fact that he switched from a bad case on Sky to a worse case on me. It's technically sound logic but I don't feel like that in itself is derived from scum logic. Schezo makes a Strong argument for the case he made against me being anti-town, but it feels too sincere to be a pro-scum move. I guess what I mean is it really feels like He was omgusing Sky as town, went back to read my posts, and agreed that I was surface level suspicious enough for a vote.
Finding the post where Serela votes Raikaria is hard because I assume it's after all of the posts he defends Raikaria in, but the vote count says no it isn't.
Ahh I found it. wait, now I have to find the reasoning in a different post augh.
The way he ends up describing it is mostly gut? I guess ... I don't really have a choice but to accept it, even though it's kind of icky.
I would like Serela to go back and extrapolate more from the posts that made him go "I guess town does this, but..." Or at least define the things that come after the but.
Order of most to least suspicious to me in Sky in first, then Dan, Serela, Darkie, with Raikaria bringing up the rear. I would like to clean up all of the points I made against SkyPal but I'm way too tired to continue this post any longer than I absolutely have to.
##Unvote: ActionDan
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
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also since it's not implicit, Darkie is the nullest point in that line, since I can't seem to derive anything from his posts other than just flat out disagreeing with everything he says. Yes, that also means Serela is on the scum side.
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I had a dream about mafia breaking into my room why can't I sleep ;-;
Zakeri (4): Raikaria, Darkninjaabc, O4rfish, Sky Paladin
Raikaria (2): Schezo, Serela
Sky_Paladin (2): ActionDan, Zakeri
Not voting: No one \o/
Zakeri is at L-1!
With 8 mooks kicking, it takes 5 to lynch.
You have 8 hours left in the day (or 7? I can't get the timer to load <.<)
Day 3 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140304T18&p0=223&msg=The+end+of+day+three)
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Don't worry Shadoweh, O4rfish the mason will protect you.
Come, let's go drink this cask of Amontillado Sherry.
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Zakeri, I find many fallacies in your post but I guess I can let the people whom you have addressed to answer your inquiries themselves. Because I do not explain things for everybody else so that they make sense to me.
But since you do have a comment directed to me, I would like to ask; For how do you flat out disagree with everything I said? A reminder that it's you who has told us that as town, you quickhammers only when you have thought it over, look here.
Half of the reason I was "Defending" NNR was because I just wanted to give Schezo a hard time The other half was of course I was town reading him and none of the other people that were going against him at the time.
Yes, I purposefully quickhammered, putting someone at L-1 like that is really tasty and It's rare for me to be town and think that might be a good idea at the same time (It happens a lot when I'm scum, but I never do it because I'm worried people will know I'm scum when it happens.)
Anything else I could say on the matter would just be blatant justification. "Better to let the results speak than try to argue against the wave" or "I would gladly sacrifice a roleblocker to catch lying scum" or some such bs.
Scum should really have trusted PX was telling the truth, because I think he might still have been a myslynch today while Schezo and Oarfish are still hanging around. I figured Schezo would have been the kill, since I don't think he claimed to be one-shot before the day ended. (Unsure about this)
People I have a strong town read on are (Not including Oar and Schezo) Serela, Raikaria, Bardiche's slot, and uhh, that's it really. Which makes the lynch pool myself, Action Dan, and someone I don't feel would make for a good or accurate case
##Vote: ActionDan
As far as second scum go, I feel like Oarfish's case on Dan has strong points to it.
Yet as I have pointed out earlier, you went directly from ''hey guys lets vote Schezo'' to ''NNR quickhammer bah''. Without any explanation nor elaboration. Not only is the quichammer itself suspicious already, but the response you made is directly contradictory to your behavior as well.
And you still aren't addressing any of the problems which I have brought up even when the day is coming to an end. I am perfectly comfortable with lynching you for blatantly playing against town and refusing to explain your behavior and I believe that it is also the case for everybody else on your wagon.
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CorrectIncorrect.
I said I don't do it as scum because I paralyze myself worrying that people will think I'm scum for quickhammering. There are even times in the past I remember I could have quickhammered as scum and thinking back, a lot of those times I didn't do well anyways so I might have benefited from Quick hammering town then. That's something to think about for future games though.
I strongly disagree with the notion that the case on Dan is based on meta. I personally have been trying to ignore the fact that he doesn't bother to comment on alignments other than to give face value reads with no supporting evidence, but even with that hampering the situation I feel like the links between him and NNR, especially with Chees8's death involved look strong enough to be used as legitimate evidence against him.
The point about me going from zero to quicklynch in less than six seconds - it's important to think carefully about it. specifically about what possible motivations a scum aligned player and a town aligned player would go about the situation of having a townie claim guilty on a scumpartner.
Cut: I don't think Mitsuki being vigged is strange, since I was convinced by Sky's case at the end of day one. I think I even mentioned at the beginning of day 2 that I wanted to start the day voting her.
I have missed the second part of the quote that has Zakeri telling us that he believes he needs to think it over before he quickhammers, so here it is.
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I will address Zak's point next, firstly though:
Raikaria crumbed a town power role on day 1. If he was scum faking a role, or even a towny faking a role, then there'd be somebody in the game, right now, who would know for sure that Raikaria was lying.
That person would then either publically out Raikaria, or more likely, they'd make a claim unrelated to the crumbing and vote.
At this stage nobody has 'counterclaimed' Raikaria, and the only people voting for Rai are Schezo, and Serela. Serela didn't actually make a claim, they apparently randomly voted because I was threatening Serela by relating her to Dan. Therefore, the only REASONABLE conclusions are:
1 - Raikaria is a town power role.
2 - ??? Please fill in the blanks because I honestly can't see any other result that doesn't involve a scum Schezo.
More to come~
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ votecount is unchanged, BUT I got the timer working!
You have 3 hours and 18 minutes remaining.
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I also don't understand Serela's reason for voting Raikaria, especially as she was so adamantly defending Raikaria
I was defending that IF Raikaria was a PR (or anyone else for that matter) that they shouldn't be claiming yet because they were in absolutely no lynch danger.
Even if they're my top scumspect, if I'm wrong I want the PR to have more nights of use whilst they're not getting lynched!
ALSO BECAUSE IF I SEE YOU PLAYING WRONG I WANT TO HELP MAKE YOU BETTER AT MAFIA :C But no one listens to me
Anyway as said before I have basically no time before work, but this doesn't conflict -too- much with my earlier posts anyway I guess.
##Vote SkyPaladin
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##unvote ##Vote skypaladin
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You have no case and you voted along side the guy that you said was scum because...? Well, never mind. It's my fault for saying I don't read your posts.
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I guess the main thing I have to respond to Zak about is that he somehow finds me more scummy than Dan, who has posted more in the last 24 hours than he has in the whole game prior, purely defending Zakeri. Dan's case for voting me is based entirely on what NNR said. That's great except NNR is scum so anything you decide is at best WIFOM so you can't make conclusions out of it.
As I said earlier, Dan was buddying Serela and Raikaria, obviously trying to buy their votes on to me. And hey look, there's Serela's vote. Serela, if you get a second look in, please reconsider carefully.
Finally, Zak's been at L-1 for over a day and hasn't bothered to claim. A real townie would at least say 'Hey I'm vanillla'. At least that's what I want to say, but CF7 had to be prompted before self-hammering.
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Scum, suspected scum, confirmed town
FYI I am going to color Rai orange for Schezo; but I really would put him in green. I'm putting Serela in orange because DNA mentioned he wanted a lynch of Serela next up, and my numbers on the previous page say Serela is a good flip.
End of day 1
CF7 (7): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish, Zakeri, Mitsuki, NekoNekoRex, CF7
Sky_Paladin (1): Bardiche
Mitsuki (1): Sky_Paladin
Cheez8 (1): ActionDan
Zakeri (1): PX
PX (2): Raikaria, Cheez8
End of day 2
PX (1): Raikaria
Schezo (1): Nekonekorex
NekoNekoRex (6): Schezo, Serela, PX, Sky Paladin, Oarfish, Zakeri
Current vote count
Zakeri (4): Raikaria, Darkninjaabc, O4rfish, Sky Paladin
Raikaria (2): Schezo
Sky_Paladin (3): ActionDan, Zakeri, Serela
Well, it looks like it'll be up to Schezo to decide. Unless you've got something new to bring to the table, I don't see a lynch of Raikaria happening. I also don't think any of the four on Zakeri are likely to budge, and scums don't want their buddy to be lynched, so none of them will shift off of me. Blargh.
There is also a chance for Dan Renegate Interrupt.
I guess this is an empty content post because my rage at having 3 votes can't be contained.
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Just for lols, here's my version of events.
End of day 1
CF7 (7): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish, Zakeri, Mitsuki, NekoNekoRex, CF7
Sky_Paladin (1): Bardiche
Mitsuki (1): Sky_Paladin
Cheez8 (1): ActionDan
Zakeri (1): PX
PX (2): Raikaria, Cheez8
End of day 2
PX (1): Raikaria
Schezo (1): Nekonekorex
NekoNekoRex (6): Schezo, Serela, PX, Sky Paladin, Oarfish, Zakeri
Current vote count
Zakeri (4): Raikaria, Darkninjaabc, O4rfish, Sky Paladin
Raikaria (2): Schezo
Sky_Paladin (3): ActionDan, Zakeri, Serela
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Whelp, gotta go.
Final thoughts:
Please consider. On day 1, I fought hard to get people to not lynch CF7. I said that there was no case on him, and that there was only momentum and opportunity votes.
These people still voted:
CF7 (7): Serela, Schezo, O4rfish, Zakeri, Mitsuki, NekoNekoRex, CF7
In particular, Serela said it was too hard for her to consider any other case, and Zakeri was considering voting elsewhere.
I said that Schezo's vote was reasonable, and Serela's was rapidly becoming unreasonable.
There was no reason for me to argue so hard if I was scum. I would simply have made my case on Mitsuki, and if it didn't catch fire, settle on my haunches, knowing that I was at least safe from the day 1 lynch.
On day 2, I called out NNR for his bullshit immediately and voted for him. I never entertained the possibility that Schezo was lying because NNR told us with his weird 'I roleblocked you' argument that he was scum. Zakeri bickered and argued and refused to vote until it was L-1, and then he suddenly changed his mind and quickhammered.
Zak's now voting for me based largely on Dan's reasoning, and Dan's reasoning is based entirely on what NNR said. There's no case on me to answer.
Finally: I do not have a magic cop clear on Raikaria.
I just felt that if he was scum crumbing a power role, and we know there is a 1 letter power role missing from the setup, that this person would speak up or vote or do something - anything - to indicate that all is not well with Raikaria's claim (of crumbing a power role on day 1). But we haven't seen anything and everybody has checked the thread a couple of times by now. I just can't see any way for Raikaria to be scum following the C9++ set up rules, but if you can see a mousehole, please do share it and I will gladly re-evaluate my opinion.
Hopefully, I'll see you tomorrow.
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Damn this is a little difficult. The reasons for me thinking zak is town are not as strong as I thought.
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Gggggghh gr rhjr et hhfd.
Literally options are Serela zak or dna skypal. Does everyone agree. Because I might hammer zak. I might. But if he flips town everyone has to agree to lynch within Skypal dna
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Alomost over ...
Zakeri (4): Raikaria, Darkninjaabc, O4rfish, Sky_Paladin
Raikaria (1): Schezo,
Sky_Paladin (3): ActionDan, Zakeri, Serela
Not voting:
Zakeri is at L-1
With 8 mooks kicking, it takes 5 to lynch.
You have 15 minutes left in the day
Day 3 Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140304T18&p0=223&msg=The+end+of+day+three)
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##Unvote
##vote zakeri
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Can't wait doctor is gonna see me any sec
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Oh hey I'm actually here for Twilight.
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I understand things are most interesting when they are almost over. But apparently you can have double the fun with Alomost Over. Alomost Over, with 200 percent the O's, perfect for fufilling your daily vowels!
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Aloemost sounds soothing, I'd like some to rub over my back to relax away the pains.
Good luck with the game everyone.
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End of day Three
Zakeri (4): Raikaria, Darkninjaabc, O4rfish, Sky_Paladin, ActionDan
Raikaria (1): Schezo,
Sky_Paladin (3): Zakeri, Serela
Not voting: No one
Once more the mob trapped a victim at the end of the day. This time was it Zakeri who got dragged out of his shop. ?How often have I told you that it's clear who 'they' are and how often do I have to tell you that it isn't me?? he protests, ?We look for someone new and I'm already longer here than most of you guys!?
?That may be true but can you tell us why 'they' didn't start killing off the established first, like you?? Answered the first one. ?That's true!? Add a second ?I saw him lurking around at night, arranging his shady weapon deals.? ?Maybe he gave them even the guns 'they' to kill us?? Added a third.
?But ? but why should I hand out guns to the guys who want to kill me???? Was Zakeris final defense also his last words, mostly because angry lynch mobs care way more about blood than they care about logic.
You are Zakeri ?Unlucky? Luciano the local Pawnbroker.
People who need money and have nothing go to the Loan Shark but people who need money and have something of valuable come to you. The deal is simple, you buy their stuff and they buy it back from you later, with a small plus for you expenses, or you just sell it if they can't get the money. There is a lot of most diverse things going over your table, from radios till wedding rings, and since you don't ask questions where the things come from is there also a lot of stuff that went under your table, like stolen goods or weapons. All in all things run smoothly for you, the main part of your business is legal and your profit is clean and you even got a selling deal with the Racketeer, in case that his clients pay him in good instead of money. But even you got your problems, the rent, the taxes and all the other stuff a shopkeeper has to deal with, so you wouldn't get rich with it and you stay still a small-timer (vanilla town).
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
It is now night three where you are free to do almost anything for 24 hours ? or maybe not.
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Well, the last three days started bad enough already but it seems that it can always get worse, cause today starts with a visit from the cops.
?Where were you last night in the time from 10pm to 4am? And is there anyone who can confirm this??
Just great, not only that there was another murder that night but you also are a suspect now. You wonder for a moment if Grigio run out of money to bribe but the question soon reveal that the cops were a clueless as ever. You even smiled a bit about some of their silly questions, at least till you saw the picture of the victim.
?Do you know this guy? His head was smashed in last night. Seems like someone got really mad with him.?
They got nothing in hand against you, so you are still free but the situation looks dark nonetheless.
You are Darkninja ?the Wall? Mazzini the local Loan Shark.
Everyone needs money, but there are some who need it desperately. No matter if they are out of luck or just foolish, sooner or later will they come to you to ask for money and you give them money, not actually for free but who cares about the peanuts of fifty percent interest if you got a ?ones in a lifetime opportunity? or just nothing left to lose. Needles to say that most of your clients got problems to pay you back and you have a long list of people who ?owe you something?, which you often use to get ?favors? from them. But your power has limits, your debt collector are often in a competition with goons of the local gang and you had to learn painfully there is always a even bigger fish, small-timer (vanilla town).
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
It is now day four and also LyLo, good luck.
Sill in Buisness:
Serela
Sky_Paladin
O4rfish
ActionDan
Raikaria
Schezo
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I am town. Schezo is one-shot cop and town. There is either a doctor or roleblocker, probably Raikaria. That leaves Serela, Skypaladin, and ActionDan, two of which are scum.
Consider me provisionally voting for ActionDan until I reread stuff.
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Time to full claim I guess.
In my first post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073011.html#msg1073011) of the game, I said this:
The last two games, Serela has been dangerously competent and I don't like it.
The last two games, Serela has been dangerously competent and I don't like it.
two competent
I am the CC.
On night 1, I got a confirm guilty on NNR. I planned to sit on it for half the day so that there was more time for scum to incriminate themselves. However, Schezo also had a result on NNR and blew the case wide open. You may recall this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074426.html#msg1074426).
I felt this was giving away my position a bit much, so at twilight I posted this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074508.html#msg1074508).
I was not crumbing when I said 'That was a lie'.
Actually, I was totally crumbing.
Night 2 I checked Zakeri because I thought he was scum. I got a town result. I thought 'OK, Zak is either town or Godfather'. I had also noted Raikaria crumbing a power role on day 1 and at that stage I believed Schezo was a multi-shot cop too, and that Rai was fake crumbing. I therefore misrepped Rai by assuming he had hard defended NNR when I actually completely hallucinated it. When I realised this, and that Schezo was not multi-shot, I realised that Raikaria's role crumb was viable. As I am filling up the last letters, Raikaria must be town unless there's somebody who can counterclaim. And it's LYLO, so you really should.
After that, my private suspect list was ActionDan or Serela. I voted for ActionDan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075058.html#msg1075058), and then outed the scumteam as Serela and ActionDan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075178.html#msg1075178), here. This then prompted Serela to instantly vote for Raikaria, the leading wagon at the time.
For most of the day, Serela had been hard defending ActionDan, and then Raikaria, so there's no reason for Serela to have voted Raikaria. At all. Especially when she made statements like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075219.html#msg1075219) indicating she thought Raikaria was the town power role, why would you vote for them?
In the end I mathed out this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075366.html#msg1075366) and as we now know Zak is town, it leaves only Serela and ActionDan. I voted Serela because I felt the team of Serela/Zak and Serela/ActionDan was plausible, but Serela was the common denominator.
Zak then posted his minimum effort/did not appear in thread til prompted defence, and also DNA attacked my math, so I voted with town in case I was wrong and we lynched Zak.
I was going to bed before phase end and there was a chance I was going to be lynched, and I didn't want people to see me die as town cop and go "Oh, Sky has a cop clear on Raikaria" because I could have been wrong. So in my last post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075986.html#msg1075986) before phase end, I made it clear I had not cop checked Raikaria.
As it happens I also made a number of "If I was a cop, I would have done xyz" and as it happens, I was a cop and had done/would do xyz. In particular, earlier I crumbed that I would have checked Mitsuki/NNR/Zakeri, and I did check 2/3 of those players.
Finally in night 3 I thought "I will check the only player I am not sure of," reasoning that if I checked Serela or ActionDan it would be a 50% chance of Godfather, and we had a good chance of lynching one of these two regardless, so I decided to check DNA to at least get a town clear. And then he died. For crying out loud.
I'm going to speculate he was hit because:
1 - Because he was going to lynch Serela (my money is on this one)
2 - Because they want to confuse us by hitting a weird target (e.g. DNA wants to lynch town!Serela, lets hit DNA so people suspect scum!Serela)
3 - They thought Raikaria might be a doc and they are trying to dodge it.
4 - One of the confirmed town is not really confirmed town.
***
TL;DR I am an unlimited shot cop but everybody I ever checked has died.
Raikaria is town unless somebody counterclaims.
Scums are ActionDan and Serela unless Schezo bussed NNR on day 2.
But my money is on ActionDan and Serela.
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Actually I just realised there is nobody left to counterclaim Raikaria except Serela and ActionDan.
Serela <-- scum
Sky_Paladin <-- CC
O4rfish <-- M
ActionDan <-- scum
Raikaria <-- I'm guessing D or there'd be a bunch of "I roleblocked xyz and there was still a hit therefore they are town" claims by now
Schezo <-- C
Serela and ActionDan had all day to counterclaim Raikaria and they didn't, so.
Consider my vote on whichever of Serela or ActionDan you guys feel like going with.
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I'd like Raikaria to claim then popcorn it to whoever
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no voting until the claiming is over please thank you in advance
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For most of the day, Serela had been hard defending ActionDan, and then Raikaria, so there's no reason for Serela to have voted Raikaria. At all.
You really can't fucking read can you.
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I'm maybe a -little- P.O.d that SkyPal ignored my response to this the first time and, once more, thinks I was pushing Raikaria as town when I had declared them my highest scum suspect multiple times. :T
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here skypal I'll link it to you EVEN THOUGH IT'S ON THIS VERY PAGE http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075964.html#msg1075964
plz less inability to read the game
I voted for ActionDan, and then outed the scumteam as Serela and ActionDan, here. This then prompted Serela to instantly vote for Raikaria, the leading wagon at the time.
I'd like to say this is a misrep since I had clearly stated my priorities on everyone but I guess technically I still wasn't voting? Regardless, it's not weird that I vote for Raikaria when Raikaria was declared my top suspect for a long time
Also you still CANNOT READ THE GAME AT ALL APPARENTLY because Raikaria had ALL OF ONE FRIGGIN VOTE ON HIM.
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anyway given my reads I'm going to wait raikaria to hopefully get counterclaimed (or claim vt I guess but) and then get lynched in ensuing 1v1 (I mean maybe if it was AD counterclaiming then otherwise would happen but). I'll worry about scum #2 tomorrow. Or after he doesn't get cc'd I guess >_>; I have to admit that I don't know who else would be a PR given how the conversations have gone. God dammit Raikaria is actually town isn't he? ;_;
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actually I guess if raikaria is actually a pr then I know it's skypal+dan for sure, barring something weird happens during massclaim pointing to schezo but rofl
Having to decide between Dan and SkyPaladin tomorrow might be annoying if that happens.
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Having to decide between Dan and SkyPaladin tomorrow might be annoying if that happens.
"if that happens" meaning "if raikairia is lynched today so I have to pick dan or skypal tomorrow"
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I'd like Raikaria to claim then popcorn it to whoever
You guys are lucky I checked the thread one last time before going to my bed for the night.
I'm a Doctor, as I was suggesting before with my statements about certain roles wanting to live. Also I'd rather I get hit than investigative roles. Ultimately the Doctor save is a crapshoot after all, and while I may perform a clutch save, I'd rather taker the nightkill than a Cop.
Night 1 I targeted Serela because as many others pointed out, Serela looked particularly town.
From then on I targeted Schezo as a confirmed townie.
Anyway, looking at what people are saying about who's scum, there is one common factor from all sides: ActionDan must be scum. Both Serela and Sky_Paladin say this, despite them being at each other's necks, and while personally I think it's ActionDan + Serela, we are at LYLO so I'd rather go for the one who is scum either way.
Therefor, I suggest we do this:
##Vote: Actiondan
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I'm VT.
Dan?
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I guess Schezo should also confirm he's one-shot and not a fullcop, too. That's a possibility for the last town PR letter if Raikaria is scum.
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And who knows, maybe the reactions of the other two to this logic may be able to give us hints towards Day 5.
Although I must say, Sky has some towncred for not coming out with a Cop claim on Lylo and magically having a guilty. If that was the case I'd be suspicious. Of course his claim of 'everyone I copped diiiied!' might also be an attempt to blend into the town, but it's less suspicious than 'magical cop with a guilty out of nowhere on LYLO!'.
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Serela I am fairly confident that if Schezo was a full cop since he had already outed he would have been giving reports.
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to be fair darkie is a really off-the-wall kill and by lylo things are generally narrow enough that it's not weird for a cop to find scum that way
(this is being fair to both sides of the equation, fairness is important in mafia)
Also that may be true but still!
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Serela, your posts are full of self contradictory and nonsensical statements. Even that post you linked just now that was supposed to show that Raikaria was your top scum pick is actually a post where you link to when you voted me, despite being sure that Dan was scum and still voting alongside him. You never made a case on Raikaria.
##vote ActionDan
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I think it is also worth pointing out:
This is Serela.
At LYLO.
We should probobly disregard anything he says if you are a townie. Town!LYLO Serela tends to lose games, and Scum!Lylo Serela would... be trying to make town lose the game.
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...did you not even read anything in the post other than the vote
Are you also ignoring the part where YOU WERE THE ONLY OTHER CHOICE THAN ZAKERI? You >> Zakeri and at two hours left lol no I'm not trying to start a new wagon especially when I'm leaving. You weren't exactly a great read anyway, and voting along with scum suspects isn't as horrible as some people think it is, because A.Sometimes your suspicion is wrong and B.Bussing happens. It's something to take note of, yeah, but when it comes down to it you just lynch the scum and use the info to help lynch better next time.
and hey ;_;
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wait skypal is voting dan too
Are you not even going to wait for massclaim to finish -just in case- Raikaria might get counterclaimed?
...then again I guess apart from a doublecheck from Schezo, Dan is the only other claim left
-
I'm vt.
If Skypal claimed cop and raikaria is doctor... why the fuck aren't they voting each other?
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That's mmvccd? That's 6 making a serial killer
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And WTF darkeninja is dead.
-
That's mmvccd? That's 6 making a serial killer
Why am I still awake?
It's MMVCCCD. Schezo is a 1-shot Cop. That's 7. Goon+Blocker+Godfather. No SK.
-
Dan: Schezo one-shot cop plus Skypal cop means 3 Cs. MMCCCDV
also fuck then raikakia is town. ;_;
Schezo have you been holding out on us
cut by raikaria beating me to it
-
Wait a second, we've had 4 VT's flip.
And two more VT claims. [Serela and Dan]
It can't be x6 T, because otherwise it couldn't be LYLO.
Which means one of Serela and Dan are lying.
But it also cannot be 5 T's, because that has an SK in it.
Oh wait I'm confused.
MMVCCCD is Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather.
And we know there's no SK, and we know scum had a Roleblocker.
So that's:
2 Masons
1 Vig
1 1 Shot-Cop
1 Doctor
1 Full Cop
4 VT's
3 scum
THERE CANNOT BE ANY VT'S LEFT.
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uh it's kind of obvious that some of the vts are lying scum raikaria `-` Sorry to burst your bubble
-
oh wait your point is -all- the vts remaining are scum
I'm tired but let me try to parse this farther
-
Serela and Dan are clearly lying about their roles this means. They cannot possibly be Vanilla Townies. Unless someone is lying about their role.
This cannot be me, since that would replace a D with a T, and would result in an SK.
This cannot be O4rfish, obviously.
It cannot be Schezo
PX is dead
Sky_Paladin could be lying, and this would make it MMCTTVD, which would be Goon Blocker Godfather as well.
Except this wouldn't add up, since it would mean BOTH Serela and Dan are telling the truth.
-
my first thought is that skypal is lying his ass off.
I almost want to use appeal to probability here because 7/7 letters is 7C7*(1/2)^7 which is 1/128
-
Except this wouldn't add up, since it would mean BOTH Serela and Dan are telling the truth.
* Which would make Sky_Paladin the sole scum remaining, which would be impossible since it would not be LYLO. If me Schezo were lying, that would introduce a SK into the mix.
Serela/Dan scumteam is confirmed.
my first thought is that skypal is lying his ass off.
If Sky was lying there would beno senario where this could be LYLO, due to a lack of a serial killer.
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Skypal would have to be lying -with- Raikaria, and with Schezo being a fullcop. Due to no SK.
Schezo has to be a fullcop though because otherwise me+dan are the scumteam and um no.
Schezo plz come enlighten us
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ololololol and to think an open setup was supposed to cut down on rolegaming
-
Note it is 1:30am here so forgive me if I've made an error in attempting to figure out this C9++ stuff.
Schezo has to be a fullcop though because otherwise me+dan are the scumteam and um no.
Except if he was why wasn't he clearing people and giving his reports after claiming? At the very least he could have said 'Yeah the guy I checked died'. Not to mention this information would have helped narrow down the setup.
-
Serela and Dan are clearly lying about their roles this means. They cannot possibly be Vanilla Townies. Unless someone is lying about their role.
This cannot be me, since that would replace a D with a T, and would result in an SK.
This cannot be O4rfish, obviously.
It cannot be Schezo
PX is dead
Sky_Paladin could be lying, and this would make it MMCTTVD, which would be Goon Blocker Godfather as well.
Except this wouldn't add up, since it would mean BOTH Serela and Dan are telling the truth.
Sloooooow down. 5 letters = 5 VTs. 4 flipped so far = 1 VT allowed. change one VT claim to a mafia and presto. That however from my perspective would mean serela would be scum in the absence of one of you and Schezo lying. which we should consider.
-
Oh yeah I was short 1 VT.
1 AM MATHS IS FUN GUYS.
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Day 3 starts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074832.html#msg1074832) at March 1, 09:43.
Defends Dan. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074958.html#msg1074958)
Scumslip. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1074993.html#msg1074993) "You people", indicating she is not part of the group. Defends Dan.
Defends Dan. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075051.html#msg1075051)
Defends Dan. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075079.html#msg1075079) Also defends Zakeri by suppressing DNA.
Implicates DNA. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075082.html#msg1075082) It's scummy because it's not actually a case, and merely calls into question DNA's vote.
March 2, 12:41. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075178.html#msg1075178) I call out Serela and ActionDan for being the only ones not voting.
Defends Zak. Defends Dan. Defends self. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075213.html#msg1075213) Also defends Raikaria for being allowed to not claim.
First indication (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075219.html#msg1075219) that Raikaria is her top suspect. No case made.
Says Raikaria is probably a doc/RB (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075219.html#msg1075219) for 'a variety of reasons'.
I challenge (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075225.html#msg1075225) Serela on her ' variety of reasons'.
Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075226.html#msg1075226) abandons her 'variety of reasons' as "it's nothing really interesting" and never readdresses. It's scummy because she dodged a direct challenge.
Votes Raikaria (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075234.html#msg1075234) at March 2, 16:18. It's three hours since I first scumread her because of failing to vote. No accompanying case.
Oarfish (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075265.html#msg1075265) challenges Serela's vote.
Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075270.html#msg1075270) ignores the challenge and responds to a random point from DNA instead.
Oarfish (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075276.html#msg1075276) re-issues the challenge.
Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075286.html#msg1075286) stalls by saying 'please go re-read this post' but does not actually state her case. Stalling is scummy.
Defends Dan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075291.html#msg1075291) and his playstyle.
Oarfish (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075295.html#msg1075295) challenges Serela on her defense of Dan.
Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075296.html#msg1075296) admits that Dan is useless.
Scummy post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075303.html#msg1075303) Suddenly decides to answer Sky's question instead of logically voting Dan. This is a distraction technique. It appears Serela responded to Oarfish but really she just handwaved it and moved on. Admits "I guess I don't actually have strong reasoning for that being the case like I thought I did." but still won't vote Dan.
Oarfish (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075309.html#msg1075309) politely owns Serela. This is where we should have lynched Serela on Day 3.
Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075315.html#msg1075315) actually admits it looks bad but still refuses to vote Dan.
I vote for Serela. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075366.html#msg1075366)
Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075367.html#msg1075367) defends Raikaria.
Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075372.html#msg1075372) attacks Sky. This is her first offensive action of day 3, and it only came because she attracted a vote.
Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075615.html#msg1075615) trying to lynch Raikaria after they've unofficially claimed town PR.
Serela rant. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075828.html#msg1075828) I have just switched my vote to Zak so this is weird. Also,
"I'm surrounded by either useless or illogical people"
You do not get to say this.
Taunts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075838.html#msg1075838) Sky for all her empty content votes and in the process admits that they are all empty content posts.
Votes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1075964.html#msg1075964) for Sky because there is no Raikaria wagon. Does not make a case. Has defended Dan all game despite admitting he looks scummy, and finally places her vote alongside him.
***
Cut by Raikaria making it simple. There's no VT's left in the game, Serela claimed VT, there's your scum.
-
So that gives us:
2 Masons
1 Vig
1 1 Shot-Cop
1 Doctor
1 Full Cop
5 VT's
3 scum
I'm no good at this C9++ stuff.
Of course this is all assuming Schezo was not facadeing as a full cop or something to make mafia not target him after his first report.
-
And Dan also claimed VT which does not exist = second scum.
GG folks. You should have hit Raikaria or Oarfish; and then counter claimed DNA's vanilla town claim.
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Last chance before the slammer
Action Dan (2): Raikaria, Sky_Paladin
Not voting: them other doods
Action Dan is at L-2
With 6 mooks kicking, it takes 4 to lynch.
You have like 3 days still
~*~It's LYLO LYLO Gotta get down on LYLO~*~
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Cut by Sky: My math was off. I calculated for 12p instead of 13p. There is probobly 1 VT left in the game unless there is something that we do not know.
I still think Dan makes more sense as scum than Serela however.
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##Vote: SkyPal
Serela vote him.
Unless you think Raikaria/Schezo are both scum and the D2 guilty play was a massive gambit.
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Not quite, Raikaria~
13 players
We have MMCCCVD = 7 letters. So that's three scum, one goon, one godfather, one roleblocker.
7 + 3 = 10; so add three more vanilla townies to the mix.
There's one double C so add one more vanilla towny, equals 4 vanilla townies all up.
Serela <-scum
Sky_Paladin <-- CC
O4rfish <-- M
ActionDan <--scum
Raikaria <--D
Schezo <--C
CF7 <--T
Mitsuki <--M
Cheez8 <--T
NNR <-- scum
PX <-- V
Zakeri <-- T
DNA <-- T
The vanilla townies are (were) Zakeri, CF7, DarkNinjaABC, and Cheez8. That's four used up vanilla towny slots. So anybody claiming vanilla towny (That's ActionDan and Serela) is scum.
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I say Dan makes more sense because Serela seems to have slightly more town going for him. Day 1 in particular is quite townish, as several pointed out. Dan has done the tried and tested scum tactic of largely lurking in the background.
I also feel like pointing out this:
The end of day two
PX (1): Raikaria
Schezo (1): Nekonekorex
NekoNekoRex (6): Schezo, Serela, PX, Sky Paladin, Oarfish, Zakeri
Dan did not lynch NNR. Serela did. Admittedly I did not either, but this lynch and Scezo's cop report happened while I was sleeping @_@
Also wait my math was right? So Dan's attempting to cover him or Serela's hide by saying otherwise?
Well that just makes it even more damning for Dan. Also he's appealing to Serela to vote Paladin.
-
But again, where we stand, it appears Dan is scum no matter which way we slice the cake.
-
SO MUCH FUN BEING HAD
I can see now that dan+skypal scumteam with one-shot schezo and doc raikaria works out too. So it's that if Schezo isn't a fullcop. From the viewpoint of me knowing I'm town, at least.
Also Raikaria that's 14 players, you forgot to take out a PR for that possibility where SkyPal is lying.
Dan:No, not until Schezo confirms he's not a fullcop. If he is it'd SkyPal+Raikaria lying. ...oh. Uh. Wait. No wait I meant is- oh wait that's also skypaladin.
...oh.
well I see you have a point here `_____________________________________________`
##Vote SkyPaladin
SkyPal:That's only true if none of the PRs are lying.
Raikaria:Actually, in this logic puzzle, if you assume I'm town then SkyPaladin is actually confirmed scum. Unless I'm mixing everything up here which I totally might be :S (Dan is only not-scum if you're scum yourself raikaria so alright)
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I feel bad for Schezo when he comes back to this.
-
(also o4rfish)
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If I were scum I would have killed off Raikaria for being an obvious Power role and not gambled on Raikaria saving either Oarfish/Schezo.
Nor would I have expected another Cop = CC.
The weird part is that I think this makes Serela scum with you.
And also it makes Serela have to think I'm scum with you.
LOL.
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Hey, does anybody remember this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16369.msg1073908.html#msg1073908)?
Dan already told us who his scumbuddies are.
-
I'm more impressed that Serela is most likely probably scum believe me than anything else
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So skypal.
Any reason you're focusing your attacks against me in particular?
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I can see now that dan+skypal scumteam with one-shot schezo and doc raikaria works out too. So it's that if Schezo isn't a fullcop. From the viewpoint of me knowing I'm town, at least.
It does not work out. Because then:
MMVCD and five vanilla townies. Both Serela and Dan have claimed vanilla townies. There can only be one vanilla towny, even if I was lying about being cop.
Therefore it is a 1 v 1 of ActionDan versus Serela, if either of them were actually a towny.
Instead, what we have is the two counterclaimers voting together, for the same person.
So, there's no other conclusion. They are the scums.
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Therefore it is a 1 v 1 of ActionDan versus Serela, if either of them were actually a towny.
So, there's no other conclusion. They are the scums.
Not if Schezo is fullcop!
Can you tell I still really, really want to believe Raikaria is scum? ;_;
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^ nice casework. there's still Schezo to confirm he's actually a 1-shot cop which makes the vote on you strictly better.
And it's a 1town v 2scum anyway so there really isn't any prejudice in voting either you or Serela.
-
goddamn. do you see how much I want Serela to be town?
those are such gorgeous posts.
-
Schezo will not claim full cop, even if he was somehow scum, because that would actually confirm him as scum.
You are both caught out counterclaiming a role that does not exist.
It is effectively game over. Will you concede?
-
Schezo will not claim full cop, even if he was somehow scum, because that would actually confirm him as scum.
um no it would just mean either him or raikaria are scum
You really, -really- want to go to all lengths to fanatically assume Raikaria is confirmed town don't you? (Almost as much as I want to fanatically assume he's scum I know don't bring it up go away ;_;)
those are such gorgeous posts.
GORGEOUS MY POST
This will be my play. It will be better than Springtime for Hitler.
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If I was scum with Serela I would have strongly recommended killing Raikaria and tried to mislynch one of you/DNA.
I don't particularly understand why you'd kill DNA? I mean I strongly suggested I was a VT yesterday so the only thing I can imagine is you setting up your claim to add a CC knowing that Serela wouldn't cc because she's on your scum team + remove DNA just in case.
I admit your idea is clever but... pretty terrible play? (unless it works which it might with Raikaria voting me and all)
-
Also you're kinda obvious scum for ever voting Zak with a clear on him. so what if there is a godfather, it means he wasn't the goon.
And the coincidence in DNA dying with you copping him is pretty lets say, great.
Let alone the setup if you are telling the truth is 1/128 chance of happening compared to 21/128 chance if you were lying
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Let alone the setup if you are telling the truth is 1/128 chance of happening compared to 21/128 chance if you were lying
you know, that is by far the strongest evidence in favor of your lynch in this entire game.
I find that fascinating
-
Forgive me, but when the strongest 'evidence' is statistical probability which proves nothing really, it's not a very good case. Just because something is less likly does not mean it is not the case.
Of course, it looks like both you and Serela are scum. I'm legitimately baffled why you two are slapfighting.
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That's great, except that if I was scum claiming CC, I would have come out by saying "confirm guilty on player x" after listing the numerous times where I crumbed cop :3
Anyway, everything you are posting about who would do this and what is unfortunately all WIFOM.
-
it's a great case when disregarding what other evidence there may be in this thread for any other conclusions, it's 20 times more likely that Skypal is scum than not off probability.
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<VERY GOOD>
I'd like to thank the scumteam for voting when I said not to. Jesus Fucking Christ.
I'm Vanilla town
##Vote: Sky Paladin
-
it's a great case when disregarding what other evidence there may be in this thread for any other conclusions, it's 20 times more likely that Skypal is scum than not off probability.
Which doesn't mean anything really. You have not proven he is scum.
-
SCHEZO FUCKING READ THE THREAD BEFORE ITS GAME OVER
-
fine you want to get rid of WIFOM:
you being a cop is incredibly unlikely as is you not having a single useful result after 3 nights apparently unobstructed
-
##Unvote
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
-
##uvote
-
Sigh. Well played.
-
LMAO
-
well played gg
-
I literally told you guys I was not town multiple times you know. By saying I'M NOT CLEAR.
-
Taking bets on who the 3rd scum is btw.
-
Omfg, did Schezo and Raikaria just win?
-
Yes. It was Schezo and Raikaria.
Well done. You totally fooled me.
-
HAMMER! No more Twilight posts until Don Grigio is done writing!
-
The mob came together to decide the final lynch and it was clear that this would be a ?all or nothing? kind of deal. Determined to end this once and for all was the dispute among them short but intensive and the mob decided to lynch Sky Paladin.
?You don't dare that, I'm the Capo after all. Your Boss!? Sky couldn't believe what happened. Not after all he had done for his family. He tried to convince his once loyal man that it's the wrong decision but the time for talk was over.
Later that night in a certain night club, another ?Business meeting? was hold.
?Seems like you were quite successful. I guess we have a drink to celebrate that and then can we talk about your promotion. I'm looking forward to our new founded cooperation.?
You are Sky ?Daredevil? Paladino the owner of the local Casino.
Gambling is a tricky thing, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. There may be the few lucky guys who hit the jackpot but there is also one player who wins every night, the house. It was a long way since the first time you send out your man to collect protection money till you launder enough money to build your own casino but now is it done. You are capo (town cop), the boss of this part of town, no one should ever forget this and you will do everything necessary to keep it that way. May God have mercy upon those who try to betray you, because you won't.
You may investigate a player at night to find out his alignment by sending me a PM with: ? ## Investigate: player name? to get a result.
Town:
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
You are O4r ?the Fish? Fresco the local Bookmaker.
Bets on sport events can be quite lucrative, cause there are always enough fools willing to take the risk to bet against the odds, which brings you a good income. But sometimes even those fools got luck, needles to say that such times were black days for you. But what if you would know how things end even before the start? So you went to the Box- Arena and made the owner an ?offer that he couldn't refuse? and he didn't refuse.
Soon this arrangement proved itself so successful that the two of you turned it in to a partnership, in fact it made you that rich that only your boss got an higher income which you used to further your way up. Now you work directly for the boss himself but your cooperation spawned something even more valuable, ?trust?. You are a lieutenant of the gang (town mason) and your partner in crime is Mitsuki.
You are free to talk with your partner in crime here at all times: [ http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/yi7ctMFpYJf ]
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
You are Dan ?Action? Contarini the local Druggist.
As long as people live will they get ill and you will sell them the medicine they need and you quickly noticed that the prohibition brought up new ?illnesses? which you found new ?medicine? against, the new antiseptic is actually gin, the improved cough mixture was formally known as whiskey and finally your special antidepressants which is nothing else than decanted brandy. Your business is completely legal and clean, at least as long as you pay you ?special insurance? and the few cops in your area get free medicine for their ?back strain?. You are a honest men in the eyes of the law but also just a small-timer (vanilla town).
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
You are Schezo ?Governor? Zanchetti the Owner of the local ?Speakeasy?.
People have needs and one of them is to ease their troubled minds now and then with a drink or two or ten, so you made it your job to satisfy this need, legally or not, at least as long as they pay for it. But live isn't that easy, the prohibition doesn't make the stuff actually any cheaper, the nightclub is more then enough competition and most of your profit is spend on protection money and that's way you are only a small-timer (vanilla town).
You win when you took care (eliminated) of the troublemaker (scum), good luck.
Scum:
You are Serela ?Wafflebaker? Valpecca the local Bookkeeper.
To make money is always a good thing but what if you can't spend it as you like? Cause if you want to put your money into clean and legal businesses then you will be sooner or later asked where it comes from, and income from robbery, blackmailing or smuggling aren't that popular in the legal world of business. And that's where you come into play, a phantom company here, a few deals that only exist on the paper and tada! The dirty blood and booze money comes out clean as newly fallen snow and that's the reason why your work is so valuable for your boss, which is good, because your live in town feels like that of a carp in the shark tank. You may carry a gun, but let's face it, even the smallest petty crook with a switchblade could outmatch you in a fight. After all, you are just a pencil pusher and a small-timer (vanilla town).
Wait, you are actually the boss of the invading gang. You were the one who came up with the plan to infiltrate this part of town to take it over. And since you spend a lot of time to settle in, slowly preparing your plan, would no one see through your perfect disguise. You are the boss (scum godfather) of your team.
You will appear as town to any investigation.
You may execute the factional kill of your team by sending me a PM with: ?##Kill: player name?.
You are also free to talk with your partner in crime here at all times: [ http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/DdMpRknwEkyE ]
You win when your gang (scum) equals or outnumbers the other (town), good luck.
You are Raikaria ?Englishman? Britanno the local Smuggler.
You are a importer of dubious goods but there is always someone who wants something this days and you know where you can get it and even more important, how to get it unnoticed into town. To work discreetly has its advantages, you don't pay much protection money, mostly cause no one knows how much you really make, and it helps you a lot to stay out of trouble cause no one sees you as competition. But it has also its downsides, you can't trust anyone enough to work with you nor for you and being on your own makes you a small-timer (vanilla town).
That's how it appears on the first glance but you are actually a member of the invading gang. You may not be as good disguised or skilled as they other but you are here for the dirty work anyway. And what does it matter to you, when you got a job to do? You gotta do it well and give this town hell. This predestinates to be the Muscles (scum goon) of your team.
You may execute the factional kill of your team by sending me a PM with: ?##Kill: player name?.
You are also free to talk with your partner in crime here at all times: [ http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/DdMpRknwEkyE ]
You win when your gang (scum) equals or outnumbers the other (town), good luck.
Scum wins
I guess that was it.
-
it was too hard for me to think that scum gambitted into knowingly at least 5 letters + what looked like maybe a serial killer
-
Best game of mafia oh my god. I had too much fun. So much fun. All of it.
(http://www.m-i-u.de/images-i78843bo79mn.png)
Credit to Dorian for making this image in reaction to :C-face Rumia, re:post 219 of the scum QT http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/DdMpRknwEkyE
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http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/DdMpRknwEkyE < Scum QT
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/yi7ctMFpYJf < Masons QT
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/nmgfJY5Q9pb < Dead QT
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/ujrLGpRFGup < Raikaria
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/MXjKxgttxw4 < Sky Paladin's Vig QT
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/JVwDPjhFKgeP9 < Mod QT
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[21:33:36] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> This is what I get for always rooting for Schezo to win no matter his alignment or mine
[21:33:40] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> The heart, it aches
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Schezo saying he was actually a VT, whilst simultaneously giving us the last vote we needed for quickhammer, was such a mix of reactions that I couldn't even.
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:matsuriscowl:
I could post a long skype rant for when I got spoiled but I think I'm past that point.
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...
Ooohhhhhkay. Well I feel half redeemed now. I thought I'd just lost us the game. Well, I was lynching Dan anyway, so it would have been GG regardless who Schezo voted for, but never mind.
Damn it.
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lolwell, grats Raikaria and Serela for the win :D Whaddya know, we really SHOULD have lynched you in LYLO after all :D
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What the hell Schezo.
Four scums, plus some scummy townsfolk? I don't see how we could have won that.
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Vhaltz' 121 against me in the Graveyard:Pretty much completely unwarranted. It was all either
A.Stuff that was -actually against me- and therefore justified that I yelled at him for it
B.Stuff that was so bad it didn't matter who it was against, it was just terrible (I don't think any of this was actually against not-me anyway apart from stuff in C, but still)
C.Stuff that purely relied on roles and it didn't really matter (because there wouldn't have been claims from sensible people anyway) but I still wanted to complain >:V
D.I was barely scumhunting because I was scum hooray <3
You said I should spend less time criticizing people's cases and more time scumhunting, but if I was town there's no reason for me to not just do both. (Admittedly you probably said this because I was scum and not scumhunting much!)
But yeah, I want townies to play better so I'm going to criticize faulty play. It's detrimental to town if their players are doing badly. Of course, some kinds of criticism can also lead to helping scum look scummy too, but that's neither here nor there.
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To be fair, he thought you were town. :V Obviously now that you flipped scum your play is shown in a different light.
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yeah at the end I went "but then again a lot of the reason you said this is probably because I was Actually Scum and Actually Not Really Scumhunting"
However, criticizing faulty cases is something I always do, so I figured I should still respond.
Bard gets mad at me for it whenever he's playing. :3
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O_O
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"If there is a god, Bardiche will roll the vig and justice will be sweet for him. "
*roles rolled*
"PS: it seems that god is still dead after all. "
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He should have gone Schezo's route and decided to be his dream role anyway.
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Oh Mitsuki. We were SO SURE the other was scum, ne? Ah well.
So let's recap day 1:
I RVS vote scum!Serela
Serela OMGUS
NNR votes
Then I vote scum!NNR
And immediately switch to scum!Raikaria.
Okay. So the moral of the story is, I should vote by blind luck :V
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Don't forget chasing me off "you haven't been voted" and "I PoE'd it down to four scumteams and you're in three of them Serela!" even if the PoE was false because of Raikaria scum
And of course there's Darkie complaining that I'm too confusing to read so I'm scum. ;_________; I was so happy when Schezo pointed out how ridiculous of an accusation it was.
Zakeri was the first to actually give an existant reason I could be scum. He died immediately. I would have endorsed nightkilling him if we had lynched SkyPal. That flip would have been very surprising.
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The mod topic is HILARIOUS :D :D :D
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"If there is a god, Bardiche will roll the vig and justice will be sweet for him. "
*roles rolled*
"PS: it seems that god is still dead after all. "
There is no god.
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i stopped reading after page 1 and still figured out nnr was scum :>
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Also I genuinely do think claiming masons immediately can be pro-town, but it depends on context.
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Maybe "stop doubleposting when the game is over" should be added to the rule list
But anyway, that time you claimed masons and let me live the entire game as confirmed town, I tried to lose that game for town really, really hard.
But the scum just wouldn't let me. Dormio flubbed his fake PR and Conq cried about how it's just not fair when town asks him why he isn't dead yet. <3 Cute.
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Wow, yeah. I was feeling really bad at the end of this game but looking back I was pretty accurate at first and then doubted it and moved away.
Ahhh. Well, I still screwed up but I feel like I learned a lot from this game.
Don Grigio, thank you for running the game. The flavor text was really fun, and the nicknames characterful and clever :D
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generally I feel like outing masons early minimizes the potential time spent by town misreading or trying to read them which increases productivity from the get-go. in a role madness game like Shadoweh's it also draws the kill away from power roles that can actually actively do anything and adds a layer of Doc (or driver lol sf) WIFOM. it's basically double innocent children
E: Obviously this isn't a global thing, in a game where there's likely a SK or second scumteam it's a bad bad idea to claim masons unless you absolutely have to to (learned from experience). But I definitely don't think it's a bad strategy like Shadoweh/Serela are implying.
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I like how Sky voted me and convinced everyone to lynch me based on an 8% chance of "fuck you" :v
Not angry, I actually laughed at that.
It does explain why I was starting to seriously read him as scum near the end of Day 3. Of course I can't claim to be useful because if you ignore the fact that I didn't even bother reading Darkie, My scum list was completely reversed from the truth.
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I am sorry about that, Zak.
I thought you were scummy enough to check. Then after I'd already voted ActionDan...and then Serela...there were already a whole bunch of people on you.
I did consider outing myself to save you. In the end I decided it wasn't worth the risk, because if you were scummy enough for town to want to lynch...you just might be the godfather.
In the end I didn't get to make a single useful check in the game, despite wanting to check both Raikaria and Serela most nights. I might as well have been vanilla town.
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I can understand it's frustrating when all of your results either get lynched or flipped with the cop result in tow. Especially since there theoretically shouldn't be much crossover between "Scummy enough to investigate" and "Town enough to get Nightkilled." And while I'm complaining about getting lynched as semi-confirmed town, I feel like the only difference would have just been me half-assing my reads again instead of Whatever it was Dan did. Then again, if you had outted yourself as cop and defended me, I probably would have been more on your side day 4.
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i guess i sucked this game
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So ... Schezo was VT, and fakeclaimed cop just to mess with NNR, and then voted Skypal instead of Raikaria because he didn't know how to add to seven. Meanwhile Dan did nothing that Town benefited from, but at least wasn't actively trying to lose the game.
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I don't get why Schezo voted Paladin, as his role represented two letters and Raikaria's was supposedly one letter, which would point to the existence of a SK if true, and it was clear there wasn't any. Raikaria was confirmed scum at that point.
My reads reached an all-time minimum this game.
I kind of promised Vhaltz that from now on I'd scumhunt more even if I think there are alternate explanations to what I point out. I'm too afraid of being wrong. But I'm going to be wrong anyways so it'll be fine!
Regarding the mason claim, personally I didn't want to claim because I thought that neither Oarfish nor I would be killed N1 nor lynched D1 if we put some effort and if we were suspected we could always claim. It kind of worked until Paladin made a case on me too late for me to answer and PX decided to vig me for it, or for some random reason I don't understand, before I could answer. It's not Paladin's fault, of course. It wasn't a good idea not to claim in a setup that could have both vigs and SKs, anyways.
I basically wanted to wait until D2 to claim so that our mason clear would be more powerful to town.
Also guys, if you don't plan on posting and scumhunting why do you join games.
This post doesn't convey my overall impression on the game well because I'm complaining about everything when I actually had lots of fun, both while I was alive and on the graveyard. I wish I had more time to enjoy being masons with Oarfish though.
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So ... Schezo was VT, and fakeclaimed cop just to mess with NNR, and then voted Skypal instead of Raikaria because he didn't know how to add to seven. Meanwhile Dan did nothing that Town benefited from, but at least wasn't actively trying to lose the game.
Pretty much.
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schezo caught scum and nnr is just salty because of past games. honestly
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Well, PX's listed reason for his vig is "Possible Serial Killer" so...
I think Mitsuki just somehow got caught in everyone's head. Even the scum wanted to target her!
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whoops. It was Raikaria Selerla not Raikaria Sky.
Hmmm. no. Me claiming cop wasn't to "mess with NNR" I used my read and got a scum lynched.
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I feell like we could have made better use of Mason strategy if Mitzi had lived a little longer. As it was, I tried to take advantage of it and will use QT in future.
Dorian, your flavor was fine. Your moderation was also fine, unlike a recent game which also had good flavor.
Schezo: do you know the difference between odd numbers and even numbers? We were all clearing Raikaria based on you being a one-shot cop.
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As far as the setup speculation and confusion over letters, which a few people complained about. Compare this to an actual role madness game and I think you'll agree this was alot more controlled. I also think the confusion would just be solved by playing the setup more then once. For a first game, it went pretty well! I thought the actual setup would play out a little too vanilla and boring >.> Boy was I mistaken..
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What do you want me to say?
"I didn't fuck up because the setup does afhsdfo"
"I can count it's just I voted Sky because fdjsiaop"
Like the game is over
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Well, its over, I guess I have to apologize for pushing for Zakeri to get lynched, generally giving Dan a hard time and didn't really capitalize on my opportunity to make a giant case on Serela before I died.
That's replacements for you. Bleh. It was pretty suckish honestly considering the (fake) roles had me so locked on the idea that AD and Serela are the scums as soon as Zakeri flipped that I didn't even remember Raikaria existed and is powerlurking. :V
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whoops. It was Raikaria Selerla not Raikaria Sky.
Hmmm. no. Me claiming cop wasn't to "mess with NNR" I used my read and got a scum lynched.
You fakeclaimed Cop with a Guilty.
At best your 1 in 3 gambit worked. You lucked out and it did.
At worst you got a townie lynched and then got turboed yourself D3 for a fake cop claim.
What you did was not town and was not playing to the town wincon IMO. If you were wrong, which odds were that you were, you'd have probobly lost the town the game right there and then.
Honestly I wouldn't be shocked to see you carded, because that was an incredibly stupid and anti-town thing to do that you just happened to luck out on.
Now, to read the QT's.
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lol.
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'First thoughts: Raikaria changed his avatar. Isn't that forbidden? Maybe he was lynched after all.'
No, changing your username is what is forbidden. Also I didn't change my avatar, Birthday threads did.
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funny how the people complaining about the cop gambit the most are the people who lost a teammate over it
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Lol. Props to Serela for playing really well to their town meta, after D1 I barely questioned his alignment, and when I did I always ended up finding better-looking targets.
Most of my #121 is useless in the light of being scum, but I disagree with his response to my last bit.
If you want to tell somebody that they're doing something wrong, wait until postgame, scum are bound to take advantage of it and townies are most likely not going to listen to you while the game is running so it's very rarely going to fix any issues and bring anything good to the game. Specially in the first half of D1, interfering with reaching cases is very likely to return any baits that players came up with to get a read on other players to null status, which only halts/slows down progression out of RVS and through D1 in general.
It is essentially a large amount of non-content that doesn't achieve anything, and just like we've seen this game tolerating that kind of thing when Serela is town is bound to allow him to abuse it to avoid scrutiny when scum.
That aside, DNA and Oarfish did really well this game. And I don't think Schezo's gambit was as bad as people are making it out to be, people who know they can get away with it will fake cop guilties frequently to get people they think are scum lynched, people are more likely going to listen to a cop result than a case. You can't really know if he'd play it off well enough to avoid being turbolynched the next day, too, so you can't assume that he was throwing the game by doing it.
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funny how the people complaining about the cop gambit the most are the people who lost a teammate over it
I'd be fine is he as a legitimate cop, but the fact remains it was a stab in the dark against a player that there are personal issues with [NNR said he dosen't like Schezo] which had a 2/3 chance of losing the game right there.
Valtz also said this in the graveyard:
'but I feel like some of his posts this game consist of just deliberately throwing dirt on people. '
Also:
There are only three reasons they would hit DNA.
1 - Because he was going to lynch Serela (my money is on this one)
2 - Because they want to confuse us by hitting a weird target.
3 - They thought Raikaria might be a doc and they are trying to dodge it.
3 is specifically what we were going for.
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I think the gambit thing was pretty risky but it paid off. If he was wrong we would have lynched him the next day so that would have hurt because we would be two townies down unnecessarily. A couple of times I thought about lying and saying I had a scum guilty on Serela but I dismissed it because if I was wrong I would be dead.
The problem was we assumed that Schezo was a genuine cop, and everything on the last two days revolved around assuming we had MMCVx.
The loss was partly my fault because I voted early in LYLO. It's a bad move. I shouldn't have done it. It doesn't matter how confident I was. Serela even said "Are you sure you want to vote before Schezo claims" and I saw it and thought "Yep" so screw me for my arrogance.
Schezo was bad for not counterclaiming Raikaria on day 3 and simply voted without saying why. I assumed Raikaria was town because the setup said that, if Schezo was telling the truth, Raikaria was town. Oarfish, ActionDan, DarkNinjaABC and I all believed it. It was a doubly unnecessary lynch of Zak.
Schezo actually voting to lynch me when he was the only person who knew for sure that the scum pool was actually Raikaria 100% + a 50% guess of Serela or ActionDan doesn't make any sense. Therefore I am assuming he just voted me because he saw me vote in LYLO, but Raikaria voted first so he really should have voted for Raikaria.
I don't think Schezo was bad overall. The goal of mafia is to get the scums killed in any way you can; and he did get a scum. While he did exhibit anti-social behavior, I view NNR's meltdown that resulted in him getting probated as more serious. We can if-this-then-that back and forth. If I hadn't voted, Schezo would have claimed without pressure and we probably would have lynched Raikaria, and maybe still lost it on the balance of Dan vs Serela the next day. Then again, Schezo may never have elected to change his claim until the last moment regardless. We'll never know.
I'm pretty annoyed at myself because it was an unforced error on my part. There was no reason to vote except I was impatient and thought the game was about to end.
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I just noticed the nicknames/flavor names are all relevant.
Serela is 'Wafflebaker' :V
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Btw. That probability argument held. The 21/128 held over the 1/128 chance :)
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Yes but I was attempting to discredit your argument and get you mislynched.
Also seeing as this is my 2nd scum game [Not counting Kamen Rider mafia which canceled]; how did I do?
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I didn't remember you existed before I died, you are one fine scumbag.
Thank you Vhaltzo.
I never really read deeply in the roles tbh so actually having people recounting stuff helps. I was almost clueless on Schezo's gambit.
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Well, PX's listed reason for his vig is "Possible Serial Killer" so...
I think Mitsuki just somehow got caught in everyone's head. Even the scum wanted to target her!
Possible SK???
I wanted to be ignored </3
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I like how it seems the only one who thought I was the scums was a guy not even playing.
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I've just read Paladin's QT. Why are you so cute (TwT)
Raikaria, you did way better than the other game where you were scum. It was the first game on MotK I read and I caught you D1~
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funny how the people complaining about the cop gambit the most are the people who lost a teammate over it
I guess it isn't a big surprise but I'm actually concerned about it too.
It was a risky game he played, cause it would have lead into a 4 vs 3 LyLo day four, if he were wrong. And no Vhaltz, I don't think that he could have talked his way out of this. Seriously, someone who's rhetorical skilled enough to talk himself out of such a situation doesn't need such tricks, just to get someone lynched to begin with.
I addressed the copycat issue already in the mod QT. If fake guiltys become the new cakevig then good night town. <_<
Guess I better stop here before it turns into another ?Why I hate gambits? pamphlet.^^;
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Schezo and Dan both felt like they were coasting the entire game and I would have pushed them regardless of alignment.
Dan later then Schezo because Dan has a history of Not Playing The Fucking Game, although this time it was getting to pretty unacceptable amounts of Not Playing The Fucking Game by late D2.
IMO if I was that scummy, I could have just as easily been lynched via a solid case on why I was scummy, not just dicerolled via a stupid gambit that has the potential to throw the whole game based on results.
Of course, I'm a good case on me would just be :effort:. I'm sure it was pretty bloody easy to just throw the cop claim then shrug at whatever happens next, though.
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Fake cop guilties are normally even worse because they could make a real cop counterclaim you and out themselves. But yeah, risk v. reward is generally too obscene. As said, if Schezo had been wrong, town would have gone into lylo, and not only that, but with little more to work with than they had on d1.
It was pretty glorious since it worked out (dear god that reveal at the end), as well as hilarious due to how it influenced the game, but even though it -did- work out it messed with the role shenanigans enough that it still may have helped screw town over. I'm not mad at Schezo since this was pretty amazing, but I do hope townies fakeclaiming cop guilties almost never happens, ever.
But continuing- on Motk you tend to have plenty of townies playing pretty scummy. This is why I work so hard to try to be able to use both meta (only in more general situations like Dan Is Always Like This, overuse is bad) and more unusual reading-into-their-actions tells to try to figure if it's town or not. The results I get from this are mostly good (when I even get a result, that is, I'm not saying I'm some superreader >:V), slipups tend to be from me just being lazy and giving into a read on someone's alignment being X purely because it's -easy- >_>; And sometimes I take those give-in-for-ease reads too far, like Dormio in Mirai Nikki Mafia. Although by the end I really did think it was Bard based on Actually Reading The Game stuff. (That or I just don't have any decent reads so I struggle to make do with what I can see)
erm "plenty of townies playing scummy" was supposed to lead into "so even if you really think they're scum they might just be derps" as evidence of cop guilties being highly risky even if you're positive you're right, but I got sidetracked. There was also the part about cop guilties being potentially bad even if you -are- right, at least.
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you guys act like you can't take back a fake guilty before the guy is lynched
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you guys act like you can't take back a fake guilty before the guy is lynched
You just blew my mind.
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you guys act like you can't take back a fake guilty before the guy is lynched
Geez, I think that would be even worse than the original gambit. >_>
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I am just going to remark that what made me scumread Serela during the game was exactly because he was not being himself. I believe most took it as Serela ascending in towniness while in my case I am going ''hey this vague stuff can swing either way and doesn't make sense and is deliberately difficult to read blablablah''. :V
Truth to be told once again I didn't really feel the impact of the cop gambit, but from my point of view (player who only read the bare minimum on the game) scum deserved the win either way. Not only do we have a cop lasting to lylo, but town also had the advantage of having an accidentally confirmed mason to make things worse for scum. Objectively speaking scum simply outplayed town PR-wise and Lynch-wise. I guess the only thing I can nitpick about how the game went wrong is the generic ''lynch the goddamn lurkers already daaaaamn'' thing, but that's biased and from a townie pov.
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you guys act like you can't take back a fake guilty before the guy is lynched
I did that like three times in iDOLM@STER mafia.
good times.
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I've just read Paladin's QT. Why are you so cute (TwT)
Raikaria, you did way better than the other game where you were scum. It was the first game on MotK I read and I caught you D1~
That's strange the only scum game I remember was Anonmafia.
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Oh, right.
Congratulations to the winners. Was really fun to watch. And town practically ate itself. =)
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And town practically ate itself. =)
I blame Schezo's autocorrect :3c
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I did that like three times in iDOLM@STER mafia.
good times.
Nobody took you seriously in iDOLM@STER either, you know.
I will note that you sound a lot more competent then when you first started. Before it just seemed like a whirlwind of buzzwords and gibberish.
you guys act like you can't take back a fake guilty before the guy is lynched
hey guys remember when Lambadelta did this
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hey guys remember when Lambadelta did this
No I blocked it out of my memory
...I mean, uh, what? I have never heard of this occurrence, no *cough*
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No I blocked it out of my memory
...I mean, uh, what? I have never heard of this occurrence, no *cough*
That was the game I realized Shadoweh was a girl, fun fact.
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That reminds me. Serela, which do you prefer: him, her, or laughing at us when we don't know?
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Everyone deciding for themselves and doing that last one is the best. :D
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Serela is whatever gender I happen to remember exists at the moment.
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That reminds me. Serela, which do you prefer: him, her, or laughing at us when we don't know?
Serela is a him who'd like to be a her, just so he can laugh at everyone who's confused and doesn't know left from right anymore.
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hey guys remember when Lambadelta did this
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
If you look at Neko's immediate reaction to the fake guilty I would not have taken it back either, he didn't just react to it, he immediately tried to put Schezo in a 1 vs 1 with him via improbable role actions without considering Schezo might be lying. ..Well I say that but I probably would have chickened out at the end. >_> I don't think it affected Zak's lynch, if a confirmed innocent didn't save him nothing would!
I commented in the graveyard that DNA sounded really formal this game, it's a nice change.
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You fakeclaimed Cop with a Guilty.
At best your 1 in 3 gambit worked. You lucked out and it did.
At worst you got a townie lynched and then got turboed yourself D3 for a fake cop claim.
What you did was not town and was not playing to the town wincon IMO. If you were wrong, which odds were that you were, you'd have probobly lost the town the game right there and then.
Honestly I wouldn't be shocked to see you carded, because that was an incredibly stupid and anti-town thing to do that you just happened to luck out on.
Now, to read the QT's.
gyeheheheheh
You're right. Gambiting and acknowledging the risks associated that I would have single handedly lost the game for town is really anti town. You couple that with the fact that I made scum instantly flail and 1v1 me and I'm the worst player ever that just throws darts and random lynches.
This game isn't statistics otherwise there'd be no reason to play it other than to just spin an RNG 7 times and make people winners.
I blame Schezo's autocorrect :3c
plz...
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wow my reads were actually good
i actually thought serela was scum but then shadoweh told me he was considered to be obvtown so >.>
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I will note that you sound a lot more competent then when you first started. Before it just seemed like a whirlwind of buzzwords and gibberish.
Everyone knows that mafia is just an excuse to hone your English rhetorical skills. That's totally why I play.
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the fact that I made scum instantly flail and 1v1 me
You act like I'm not supposed to react in any other manner. I'd say you forced a 1v1 with that gambit.
The most town move there would be to call you on your bluff, since I'm the only one who knows if it's a lie.
This is completely irregardless of alignment. If I were town, I absolutely would not have stood for it and would have done the same thing.
But again, you shouldn't need to gambit in the first place if you're convinced I'm scum. It takes a lazy player to gambit up a lynch, and risk ruining everything, but it takes a good player to convince town of your scum read.
Of course, if you had actually scumhunted this game and not coasted completely on your gambit, it might be just a bit more excusable.
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2 lazy to lynch scum
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you guys act like you can't take back a fake guilty before the guy is lynched
its like you dont remember my first game
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Yes, there's also the argument: If you were that confident NNR was scum you should have just made a case and not BS'ed in a way that could have lost the game if you were wrong.
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I find it weird that people keep bringing up "But you didn't have to" and "Town could have lost if..." when the reason town lost was something else entirely.
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Reasons not to have done it in the first place, though.
Reasons not to try it again.
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Zak, do you know what exactly went wrong?
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Town mostly lost because of apathy IMO. SkyPal was completely misguided rather than apathetic (he put a lot of effort in) but Dan didn't even read the thread, Schezo almost never posted and they certainly weren't bofh-tier posts that make up for it, O4rfish is both new and was also present so little I repeatedly forgot he was playing... and Darkie thought I was scum but never took it past "reading your posts is too annoying", whilst basically sitting on Zak for how d2 went and the wordplay.
Zak himself kind of meh'd through most of d3 until making a great post near the end that I actually was going to nightkill him for if he wasn't lynched, because suddenly he was a player actually acting sensible and putting in effort and calling me out for ACTUAL questionable things I did, unlike SkyPal or Darkie's ridiculous reasons for wanting me lynched. But he immediately got lynched, so.
Town drowned in role shenanigans near the end due to one of the "confirmed town"s actually not being a role. It probably would have gotten sorted out and gotten Raikaria lynched if it wasn't immediately followed by a quickhammer because ??????. Then it would have been up to town to lynch me over Dan or SkyPaladin, which I dunno how that would've gone, but it seems like Dan would have taken it despite all the things that happened that imo made him seem town, because I pay attention to things other people don't I guess?
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Zak, do you know what exactly went wrong?
Well,
Town mostly lost because of apathy IMO.
Uhh, yeah, that.
Basically I couldn't pull out enough content fast enough, Sky couldn't pull out enough evidence to believe in his clear of me, Schezo couldn't pull enough care needed to not quickhammer on the final day instead of convincing everyone to go for the 100% scum claim. The Fake Cop Claim I would say was town's only good move speaking solely in terms of the end result.
Edit: I didn't think my post was that incriminating for you since my reads were reversed in that post, yet looking back at it I was actually almost on the verge of discovering legit Serela/Raikaria scumlinks in how you were voting him for reasons that couldn't be explained despite hard-defending him.
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funny how the people complaining about the cop gambit the most are the people who lost a teammate over it
God damn scum is salty about that D2 lmao.
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god dammit I only just realized NNR isn't HW
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i dunno why id be against a cop gambit
i mean yeah it's risky but if you fake a guilty on somebody then you realize this and are taking responsibility by doing it. "You could lose and people could be mad at you :(" is a bullshit reason to not do something as town. i think nnr's reaction to the cop gambit as mafia this game is an excellent example of why it can work, ironically
but if it happens a lot it becomes useless.
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Lynch all liars is kind of a bad thing to enforce when town gambits can be relatively harmless and achieve nice things, such as claiming ascetic as a cop or something to avoid having the scum roleblocker target you. Claiming cop guilties is on the riskier side of the spectrum but as long as you can handle it by only doing it when you're dead certain that somebody is scum, do it just to gouge reactions or other reasons I think it's not something to get so worked up over.
Also I think the better not-Prims tell is the catgirl avatar
Unless he decides to give himself a catgirl avatar to prove me wrong
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nah my taste in anime women isnt that bad
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Or maybe, just maybe, that "Nickname" field.
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God damn scum is salty about that D2 lmao.
But I complain about risky gambits whoever does them, whatever alignment I am. :/
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I dunno how you could actually confuse me for Prims, unless you turned off avatars and sigs.
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And nicknames.