Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Bias Bus on August 12, 2009, 04:51:26 PM
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This is really concearning the powers that are tough to grasp and are rarely talked about in games/fanworks/whatever. Mostly Kaguya's 'Manipulation of eternity' and Yuugi's 'power to control supernatural phenomena'.
I suppose, Yuugi's deals with allowing Supernatrual phenomonea to occur or not. However, Kaguya's is just plain ol' 'wut' material. How do you manipulate 'Eternity', anybody got a clear verdict on what this really means and how it works?
I don't really want this to turn into a 'lol powerlevels' thread, but something tells me it's inevitable...
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inb4sakenotevendrop
Actually:
(http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs32/f/2008/190/f/c/Not_Even_Drop_by_Doyora.jpg)
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I suppose, Yuugi's deals with allowing Supernatrual phenomonea to occur or not. However, Kaguya's is just plain ol' 'wut' material. How do you manipulate 'Eternity', anybody got a clear verdict on what this really means and how it works?
Kaguya possesses the ability to manipulate the eternal and the instantaneous.
As eternity refers to a world with no history, it is also a world where change is eternally unknown.
No matter how much you may try to bring about change in such a world, it is futile in a world where time has essentially stopped.
One can think of it thus: even the fact that Eientei suddenly appeared in human history and began to experience the passage of time was because she reversed the effects of her eternity magic.
Under the effects of that magic, Eientei would probably have never appeared in the human world, but would have always remained hidden in the Bamboo Forest.
A perpetual world denies any sort of change.
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Is like the power to change constant into variable and vise versa...in world wide level.
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I'm pretty sure "lol ZUN".
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Wait so, is Kaguya's ability basicly time stop with an area of affect, or something?
And I suppose Yuugi's power is like, making ghost orbs apear, and causing people to wake up with sleep paralisis and stuff. it's actualy pretty easy to imagine one you seperat "Supernatural phenomena" and "Supernatural Entity"
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Yuugi makes haunted houses? /gasp call TAPS!
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So... Kaguya is Beatrice?
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Yuugi makes haunted houses? /gasp call TAPS!
No a haunted house would require a ghost, wich is a being, however she could make a house LOOK haunted
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From Cage in Lunatic Runagate:
The spell of eternity is a spell that stops the advance of history, that denies change and knows no impurity.
Living things stop growing, food never spoils, fragile things don't break even if dropped, and water never passes beneath the bridge. In my self-awareness as a Lunarian, I was afraid of the impurity of the Earth, and cast this spell over everything in the manor, but when faced with the charms of the Earth, I undid it myself.
Actually, adding to this, thinking about the various things said about eternity and Kaguya's power, it's worth noting that I think it's really not supposed to be straightforward or even make much logical sense. Remember that Gensokyo's great boundary isn't just a physical barrier, it's a conceptual one, dividing attitudes and beliefs perhaps even more than people. Similarly, I get the impression that Kaguya's power isn't really meant to boil down to something like "stops the flow of time locally"; it's rooted deep in a philosophical concept of eternity which doesn't exist on Earth. Gensokyo doesn't run on real-world logic.
...But even then, still, seriously who the hell knows with Yuugi.
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supernatural phenomena could apply to magic or divine power
that is to say Yuugi could either A. suck all the magic out of Gensokyo, or B. blow a bunch of magic into the outside world
I guess
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Yuugi is basically a minor level useless miracle worker.
think of Manipulation of Supernatural Phenomena as "The power to make spooky stuff happen"
Ghost balls, cold snaps, sleep paralysis, ECT.
IT'S REALLY SIMPLE ONCE YOU THINK ABOUT IT FOR A MOMENT.
Anything else, or are Kaguya and Yuugi the only ones that are really vague?
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Meiling's power to control Chi.
She can only manipulate hers, or she could screw with a person's chi from distance Flandre style?
I always thought Kaguya could make anything remain in a given state eternally. Like make something "unbreakable"
with Yuugi, I agree, she can manipulate paranormal phenomena that already exists. I don't think she can make them happen, only how they behave
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Yeah, I always wondered about Meiling. I thought, how does kung fu work in in a danmaku system?
Then I remembered all the crazy shit people can do in kung fu movies. Manipulation of chi can create beautiful ranged attacks.
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Is just like those dynamic power in tabletop rpg BESM were she can manipulate one or more concept and really just base on wordplay application, but one thing vague about it was "how powerful" was it.
Kaguya did stopped the moon's temporarity(Moon shift) and eternality(Moon always there) in imperishable nights.
Meling power should work the same in danmaku except power by Chi.
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I've always found Siki's "Power to judge things to be black and white" rather vague.
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I've always found Siki's "Power to judge things to be black and white" rather vague.
If I have it right, it means that she has the ability to see one's sins as they are, with no grey area.
Personally, I've always been wondering if Yukari's boundary manipulation has any limits. The only limit I know is that she can't gap as far as the Moon.
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Personally I don't try to figure the canonical extent of the characters' abilities..
- Yukari, for example, mentions that she can't transport many people to the Lunar Capital
- Cirno, who has a not-so-vague ability, can be exploited to have ability over atomic movement (the "entropy" thing)
- Suika could become many times larger than the universe (and since she can manipulate not only her volume, but her mass as well, she could still be more dense than a.. neutron star, for example), her powers have no known canonical limitations so far
- message of the day: the vagueness of canonical descriptions and limitations give ground for speculations like these above, and gives us the element of doubt, since none of these can be so far disproved, or confirmed. Also, providing a canonical answer cuts out such questions, serving as a limiter for people's imagination (though there are some answers that lead to more questions or give more material for people to explore and question), so, canonizing an answer is something that must be done carefully.
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Is best to leaving it vague so people can decide how powerful they want.
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- Suika could become many times larger than the universe (and since she can manipulate not only her volume, but her mass as well, she could still be more dense than a.. neutron star, for example), her powers have no known canonical limitations so far
one day, I want to see Suika vs Galactus. or a picture of Suika standing next to Canis Majoris. (or holding for that matter) or Suika vs Guuren Lagann
That said, in my interpretation following the above posts on Kaguya, doesn't that mean she can also be directly responsible for all the people to stay forever young? I mean, Youkai don't age yes, but if you consider Reimu and others... I am sure they aren't eternally 16 or 17 already, does her power affect them? (eternity without change means times stop, hence aging stops, area of effect within Gensokyo)
Also, I noted how Parsee makes people jealous.
That's it? just jealousy? Like... manipulation of jealousy, as in she can make you want something so bad you did cry or shit bricks over it? rob and steal?
Another one is probably...
Suwako's ability.
Did she =
1. create the earth?
2. can create earth (i.e. mud and rocks)?
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Suwako's ability.
Did she =
1. create the earth?
2. can create earth (i.e. mud and rocks)?
I'd say it's more on the extent that she can create mud, rocks, and other such earthly matter. To create the planet earth you need something far more than just mud and rocks to pull off.
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I pondered this for Remilia of course. Manipulation of Fate....
I think she can do it consciously or at least semi-consciously. The way i think she does it is based off of spirit or even willpower to change (Will to Power anyone?) for example If she makes it so your fate is to lose a game of chess to her I'd think that her ability to manipulate that fate and cause its fruition would be against your willpower to beat her vs. her ability. Think Higurashi for a moment and....
SPOILERS ALERT for Higurashi (just in case)
How Rika went through so many scenerios of the same time frame but they all ended in the same way cause of Takano's desire and intentions to destroy the whole town which involved killing Rika. I'd imagine that there are millions of dimensions of the same world but each are and could be totally different. But Takano's desire and will to make what she wanted happen was so strong that in each world....it happens.
SPOILERS ALERT for Higurashi end
I think Remi's way of manipulating fate would be like...her desire her will power for that future to happen vs. the other outside factors that could stand in the way others apparent strong wills that don't desire it.
Like EoSD. Remi could will and fate Reimu to lose to her. Maybe she was using it and tried her best, but Reimu's will to win and power was too much that it broke through her fate manipulation.
That's how i see Remi's ability. a battle of spirit/wills. unless its something insignificant like...."Fated to buy watermeleon and steaks for BBQ" she'll win everytime, she'll win everytime.
Either that theory of mine or her ability is Tewi's ability on steroids. Manipulation of Luck (or ability to grant good luck? i forget) I don't wanna talk about infinite regression for something like Luck or Fate. then I'd get too deep in my own thoughts about it hahah. Sadly PMiSS didn't explain it too well so who knows if she does it consciously, semi-consciously (like wishful-thinking) or unconsciously.
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The problem of this kind of discussion is that by the time I get to them, people already said the world about the characters, so it gets a lot harder to backtrack.
In my opinion, you guys are taking every word by each pixel of each letter.