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Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Double_Dealing_Character)
(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss00a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss00.png)
Introduction
Double Dealing Character is the name for the 14th danmaku game our one-man-wonder ZUN has been working on. A pleasant surprise for Reitaisai10 visitors as they will be blessed with two Touhou games. As usual, the demo provides only 3 stages and revealing 3 bosses. The game is being sold (or was sold at this point of time) at Reitaisai for 300 Yen. Either way, let us quickly take a look at what ZUN has been working on in secret.
(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss01a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss01.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss02a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss02.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss03a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss03.png)
Our three selectable heroines. No extraordinary fashionable clothes here, unlike Marisa in UFO for example.
Gameplay
The game impacts us with a surprise return from Sakuya. While I am sure many of you have already noted this from the CD photo, I will say it here again: Sakuya is playable. A long with Marisa and Reimu, our three girls seem to have head to fly through the stages, fire danmaku, hold spell card battles and then. . . who knows. It is a Demo! Bloody hell!
The girls have two shot types. You've all already heard of the "Dark Spark" or "corrupted weapons". The rebellion of the weapons themselves seem to be very visible when you're using your shottype or spell card. So you can decide: Fight with possessed and 'dark' weapons or stick to your faithful clean and divine weapons. The girls themselves don't change appearance themselves for the shottypes, so people who thought Marisa might be wearing some alternative clothing, sorry to disappoint you.
| Character | Non Focus | Focus | Spell Card |
| Reimu (corrupted) | Homing amulets | Target lock Gohei | Giant gohei, sweeping in front of Reimu |
| Reimu (clean) | Homing amulets | Straight needles | Fantasy Seal |
| Marisa (corrupted) | Laser and magic shots | Flame thrower | Dark Spark |
| Marisa (clean) | Laser and magic shots | Magic shots and exploding missile | Magic Bomb |
| Sakuya (corrupted) | Knives | Knives + delayed homing knives | ? ? ? ? ? |
| Sakuya (clean) | Knives | Knives + straight green knives | Invincibility and removal of bullets |
Above a quick overview of the girl's shot types. Reimu is pretty straight forward and always feels like the more easy to use characters in every game. Her corrupted gohei strongly resembles Imperishable Night, Border team where you summon Ran in Yukari mode who locks on the first target before moving to the next. Useful when the boss is forcing you away from her. Marisa's straight forward shot type makes it difficult to handle bosses if they force you to move. Though her corrupted hakkero's focus mode leaves a burning trail, which does some damage. So you're not always in a loss! And finally Sakuya has an interesting ability where just like Reimu, you summon several knives who lock on target then rush forward to deliver them pain.
Be aware that Reimu's corrupted spell card makes her immense slow. You need to be in front of the boss to deal damage. Reminds me of Youmu's slashing charge shot in 10D. Marisa's flame thrower hakkero has a pretty long range. Sitting at the bottom of the screen, you can keep hitting the boss easily.
(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss04a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss04.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss05a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss05.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss09a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss09.png)
Reimu's Gohei being out of control. Look at that beast! / Marisa's corrupted Hakkero, spitting deadly flames. / Dark Spark, the true corrupted form of her fierce magic. Oh my.
The bosses are a fish/mermaid girl by the name 'Wakasagihime', A pretty creepy girl 'Sekibanki' and the howling girl 'Kagerou Imaizumi'. Again the electric guitar is the leading theme for these girls. Interestingly the stages you visit are quite familiar. Just play and see for yourself.
(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss11a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss11.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss06a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss06.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss07a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss07.png)
The three bosses from the demo. ------ Wait, did Sekibanki just DETACH her head? ----- We've already been in this place, don't you agree?
Demo impression and conclusion
As a demo, it is hard to gauge the overall impression of a game. So I will be holding my judgement until the full game appears. However, many things can be noted here. ZUN has adapted his graphics again. Small detail such as the spawning animation of bullets or the scattering/vanishing effect seem to be done using different textures. Bosses use a dark, evil looking "charge up" animation giving the game an interesting look. Even when a certain mid-boss appeared using that animation I was surprised. Electric guitars (if I am not mistaking) seem to be the leading instrument during theme songs. Especially fighting the third boss, the lead instrument is clearly an electric guitar. Feels quite energetic and yet another brave move from ZUN to sway from his traditional romantic trumpets. Though those always remain around so fear not.
The demo looks promising so far. ZUN seems to indeed have eliminated any complicated system such as the trance mode in 10D. Basically you're using power, bombs, graze and some other scoring mechanics to play through the game. I am sure the experts among us could explain this part better.
Again, for final judgement, please watch warmly as girls do their best to prepare for the full game.
--Helepolis
Helepolis, feel free to hijack this as necessary.
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This... is still about the demo? I don't get it. And you locked the other thread just as I was responding. bo-boo
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I'm getting a "not a valid win32 application". Was a solution for this ever found besides the trial patch?
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I'm getting a "not a valid win32 application". Was a solution for this ever found besides the trial patch?
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15326.0/topicseen.html
Also, my SakuyaA Lunatic run crashed the game at the Fake Prismriver's fight (I believe it was the third spell). Did that happen to anyone else? :l
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Raiko is really the most mysterious extra stage boss, look at this picture closer.
look at her tie.
(http://i.imgur.com/MagmaIc.png)
also someone on pixiv draw a fan-art of her
(http://i.imgur.com/OYP6bSE.png)
if you look at her tie closer, you can see inverted cross on her tie, and that means......
Raiko is actually a christian youkai and she is the preview of TH15 that represents christianity!!
I knew it ZUN!
wait a minute.....there`s one more thing.
DDC is like PCB, and that means TH15 will be like EOSD, OMG! i think Angels and western Demons will appear on TH15!
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Also, my SakuyaA Lunatic run crashed the game at the Fake Prismriver's fight (I believe it was the third spell). Did that happen to anyone else? :l
Not sure about everyone but I saw some amount of posts that the game crashes at 2nd (or 3rd?) stage 4 spellcard on Lunatic for A characters.
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1) That thing on the tie (at least in the fanart) looks more like a sword.
2) Is there a patch for the Lunatic S4A post-second spell crash bug yet?
(i'm back home squeee)
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http://i44.tinypic.com/rm0gsz.jpg
I'm just gonna leave that there...
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If anything, Touhou 15 will be more like Immaterial and Missing Power.
I don't have the game yet, and has anyone noticed that each new game brought at least one new shot type.
EoSD: Everything but knives seem like it
PCB: Music notes and butterflies
IN: Amulets and maybe stars
Not counting PoFV because it's different
MoF: New Dots. Lol
SA: Hearts and roses
UFO: Sinuate Lasers, I think these are their first appearances.
GFW: Other stars
TD: Arrow Bullets
DDC: More music notes and some things in the extra stage.
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So apparently there are 21 music tracks in the game instead of the usual 17. Does anyone know how to unlock the others?
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Any suggestion on where I might be able to buy this later? =D
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Well, overall this game satisfies me. It's colorful, if not a bit of an odder feel. However, all the characters have flair, and hits the right notes.
I thought much the same. It has this aura of oddness that feels like a new direction for Touhou, basically ZUN going full trickster mode. I like it more than TD any way I look at it.
DDC feels... chaotic in a good way. The bullet patterns are disjointed, there's these surreal gimmicks scattered around, and the music is off the usual rails.
Really fun how the point-of-collection bonuses become a sort of mini-game inside the gameplay, much like UFO (which happens to be one of my favorites). It adds a layer of strategy and helps you get lost in the game during the more intense parts. I always feel like I could've collected more bonuses with better planning and skills, which makes it quite addictive and arcade-y.
Now to actually beat Sukuna and see the Extra stage...
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Just felt like saying how much I love Shinmyoumaru's theme again, this time in the correct topic.
By the way, ThbgmExtractor (http://smdn.jp/works/tools/ThbgmExtractor/) got an update recently and there's already a titles file for DDC (http://mayoiga-shiro.blogspot.jp/).
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Just completed the Ex Stage with ReimuB and Marisa B. Raiko it's a joke with MarisaB, use her bomb on ANY nonspell and grab resources like crazy :V
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So I take that there is no phantasm stage after all?
Thanks in advance!
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So, who's Marisa's midboss/boss on Stage 4? Reimu has Yatsuhashi as midboss and Benben as boss, Sakuya is the other way around. I'm still raging at losing the last life of my last continue to Shinmyoumaru AFTER I defeated her and don't want to go play the game again to check it =P
EDIT: Nevermind, found out it's based on choosing between using the cursed weapons or not.
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For those who are interested but don't understand Japanese, I'll put all the info I got from the screenshots and videos. Haven't played the game so I might be wrong about some,
Stage 4 - Takes place in the middle of a storm
The bosses are Tsukumo Benben and Tsukumo Yatsuhashi, a newly awakened instrument Tsukumogami sisters. You get to fight a different one for the boss depending on which weapon you choose, A fights Benben and B fights Yatsuhashi, the other sister will be the mid-boss.
Stage 5 - Takes place in the floating castle corridor
The boss is Kijin Seija an Amanojaku youkai, that assists Sukuna for the rebellion. Her fight has a unique gimmick where she'll reverse the screen and your control.
Stage 6 - Takes place in a room in the floating castle
The final boss is Sukuna Shinmyoumaru, a decendant of Isshun-boshi, a dwarf princess from the small tribe youkai. She wields the Shining Needle Sword(that giant needle) and the Miracle Mallet, capable of making things bigger and gives magic power to inanimate objects. She is the one behind the rebellion. There's a Shingeki parody in her 5th spellcard, aptly named 進撃の小人(meaning "Attack on Dwarf").
Extra Stage - Takes place in the middle of a storm
The extra boss is Horikawa Raiko, a newly awakened drum Tsukumogami. She received her powers and conscience from Sukuna's Miracle Mallet and she received more than the two sisters to the extent that she shows similar quality with the Thunder God, Raijin, with the fact that you're fighting her in the middle of the storm that she made and she generates thunder balls. She herself is not the god Raijin, though she might as well become one now. For her ability, since there's others who can utilize lightning, maybe hers is "manipulation of storms"? Wants to lead the rebellion for the freedom of tools from humans control.
For the story:
Sukuna is the one who starts the rebel for the small people/youkai tribe since they're angry because the others sees them as weak and Reimu didn't even realize they exist. What lead her to do this is the secret treasure, the Miracle Mallet, which apparently has the power to make things bigger(as you can see in her 2nd spellcard and make our hitbox bigger in her 4th spellcard), so she's probably weak without it and it's implied that she probably enlarged herself and the castle with it. Seija is probably an acquaintance of Sukuna and joins the rebellion for the same reason. These two are the main instigator of the rebellion. Wakasagihime, Sekibanki, and Kagerou probably joined the rebels to prove themselves since they think they're ignored.
As for the Tsukumogami, the sisters know about the rebellion but Seija didn't recognize them, so the weapons going haywire and the Tsukumogami weren't part of their plan, though Seija said she doesn't mind as long as they're helping. So it probably goes like this, Sukuna and Seija wanted to start a rebellion for the small and weak youkai and started all this when Sukuna got the mallet. Other than making things bigger, the mallet also seems to be able to give magic powers and conscience to tools, which were given to Benben, Yatsuhashi, and Raiko who were just tools(their instruments). Raiko took advantage of her, probably by saying that she'll help with the rebellion(she's the one that keeps the castle afloat), and takes all the magic power she needs until she no longer needs the mallet. From here, the three newly awakened Tsukumogamis went to start a rebellion for the freedom of tools from humans control. So there are two rebellions taking place here.
I don't know about the ending but for extra stage with ReimuB, after beating Raiko, Reimu were considering about returning them back to tools but she decided to let them go(but not before saying that tools should just shut up and be used. That's our Reimu, what a bitch) and Raiko happily obeys. After that she says that she, and maybe the sisters, are going to held a concert(Prismrivers vs Tsukumogamis incoming!) and finish the conversation by quoting a certain drummer from the outside world.
In the end of the day, we sip our tea and there was much rejoicing. Just another day in our favorite paradise.
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Again, fast fandom is FAST (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nac32eUoQAY). :o
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Wow...Touhou fans are always on top of everything.
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Thanks, monhan. That's some really good info.
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It is said that the game crashes in a certain part at Stage Four Lunatic because of too much bullets.
Anyway, isn't Shinmyoumaru the cutest Touhou character you've seen? It is for me.
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Sneaky ZUN! He took elements from Sukuna's cover art! I guess maybe the mallet and the needle would have made it way too obvious. And yet, people guessed what she was supposed to be before release. Still have no idea what the colorful thing around her is, though... thread? :3 Also I kinda find her creepy, is that weird? Maybe it's her sprite, with that weird grin on her.
The music has a different feel from other games from what I can tell... it's amazing. But that was already obvious in the demo.
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For those who are interested but don't understand Japanese, I'll put all the info I got from the screenshots and videos. Haven't played the game so I might be wrong about some,
Any info on what is actually causing the Youkai's rampage? (aka the first three bosses)
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So apparently there are 21 music tracks in the game instead of the usual 17. Does anyone know how to unlock the others?
Not true, i see 17 tracks... we got trolled
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I know this probably isn't the right place, but anyone else having issues with the translation autopatch?
Back when the demo came out it worked just fine, but now none of the other games, much less TH14 work.
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Any info on what is actually causing the Youkai's rampage? (aka the first three bosses)
I was curious about that too since the last 3 stage feels like a totally different game and I don't really see the connection, but here's what I think:
Sukuna leads the rebellion for the small, weak, and often ignored youkai. The first three bosses are probably interested in that and decided to join the rebels.
That's all, I guess.
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For anyone who feels like spoiling themselves, here are stages 4 through 6 on normal: http://nicoviewer.net/sm21573607
Dear god stage 5 is awesome and horrifying at the same time.
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Now to actually beat Sukuna and see the Extra stage...
Yatta~! (http://i.imgur.com/PO1hG6P.jpg)
I think I shed a single tear when the staff roll theme played. You'll see why. Friggin' love this game already.
also whoa is ZUN actually shorter than me
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Don't forget the extra stage! Reuploaded by Critz, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdkOmQxvfcw
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I'll wait for actual replays of Lunatic/Extra. It's nicer to watch them using the game.
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Did anyone notice how the Stage 4 themes sound suspiciously
PC-98ish
?
e: OH GOD YATSUHASHI'S SECOND SPELL
IS MIMA'S BOUNCING ATTACK, ONLY EASIER
SHE HAS RETURNED
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Don't forget the extra stage! Reuploaded by Critz, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdkOmQxvfcw
holy shit her survival card
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@monhan [on the story] Actually, the recent translation of character bios make things interesting:
It is true that Sukuna leads the rebellion. However, Seija is the true mastermind beind the incident. She enjoys doing stuff people hate and hates when her actions make people happy. She also wishes to turn Gensokyo upside down by making the weak rule the strong. Then she came across the mallet. Due the fact that only dwarves can use the mallet, she decided to manipulate Sukuna to start the rebellion by feeding her fake information about their past (in the past, the dwarves decided to use the Lucky Mallet who Isshu-Boshi forbitted to be used to live a luxury live and then built the "Shining Needle Castle" to rule others, but the castle went to the world of onis with the dwarves, due the fact that Lucky Mallet was created by the onis. They decided to seal the Lucky Mallet once again). The dwarves who knew their past had dissapeared and Sukuna had no idea about Lucky Mallet's existence so Seija had easy time to make it seem like the other youkais were the ones behind the downfall of dwarves.
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I really love the final boss' theme, I can't stop listening to it. 8DDD
BTW Does anyone know if they could unlock Extra mode in Easy mode? Honestly I'm not very good with Danmaku games. XD;
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@monhan [on the story] Actually, the recent translation of character bios make things interesting:
It is true that Sukuna leads the rebellion. However, Seija is the true mastermind beind the incident. She enjoys doing stuff people hate and hates when her actions make people happy. She also wishes to turn Gensokyo upside down by making the weak rule the strong. Then she came across the mallet. Due the fact that only dwarves can use the mallet, she decided to manipulate Sukuna to start the rebellion by feeding her fake information about their past (in the past, the dwarves decided to use the Lucky Mallet who Isshu-Boshi forbitted to be used to live a luxury live and then built the "Shining Needle Castle" to rule others, but the castle went to the world of onis with the dwarves, due the fact that Lucky Mallet was created by the onis. They decided to seal the Lucky Mallet once again). The dwarves who knew their past had dissapeared and Sukuna had no idea about Lucky Mallet's existence so Seija had easy time to make it seem like the other youkais were the ones behind the downfall of dwarves.
Interesting, no wonder she feels so shady in her dialog. I guess having the character profiles really helps make things clear. Another evil character enters the fray!
And I was wrong about how Raiko got her power. How can I figure that out without reading her profile!
Wonder if I should fix my post with this? But this will make it too specific since that were just from videos and all.
I really love the final boss' theme, I can't stop listening to it. 8DDD
BTW Does anyone know if they could unlock Extra mode in Easy mode? Honestly I'm not very good with Danmaku games. XD;
Seems like you could, as someone already did that here. It might be a bug or a mercy from ZUN.
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I'll wait for actual replays of Lunatic/Extra. It's nicer to watch them using the game.
Runatiku 1CC? Time to go to NicoNico then.
And ZUN stills lazy to fix glitches. The Hatate one in DS was lulz.
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Interesting, no wonder she feels so shady in her dialog. I guess having the character profiles really helps make things clear.
Seems like you could, as someone already did that here. It might be a bug or a mercy from ZUN.
Ahh alright, thanks ;; I'm still pretty bad in Danmaku even on easy mode. I'll try to have a go soon! o/
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Best Stage 5 theme ever!
Anyone agree?
Also my favorite theme in the game!
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Runatiku 1CC? Time to go to NicoNico then.
It took me some time to understand what Runatiku means :)
Ahh alright, thanks ;; I'm still pretty bad in Danmaku even on easy mode. I'll try to have a go soon! o/
I'm terrible in danmakufu too but I managed to do at least blind (well, semi-blind, I played demo) 1cc run on Easy. You're likely to be fine.
Best Stage 5 theme ever!
Anyone agree?
Also my favorite theme in the game!
The same. I like it a lot.
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Not true, i see 17 tracks... we got trolled
Ah, well that kinda sucks. I was looking forward to hearing more music. I feel like ZUN really outdid himself this time! I could listen to that Stage 5 theme for hours lol.
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So when are the
"Nice Bowl"
jokes coming?
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Best Stage 5 theme ever!
Anyone agree?
Also my favorite theme in the game!
Agree. Stage 5 theme is awesome, like Seija.
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Well, my first impression is disappointment. Patterns are too chaotic, control-reversing and hitbox-enlarging gimmicks sound like very bad ideas for a danmaku game. I'm not really willing to pick this up anymore. But hey, I might just need to take some time to warm up to this game. Who knows.
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The music in this game is awesome, as always! Been saying that since the demo but the tracks in the later stages just get even better!
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Best Stage 5 theme ever!
Anyone agree?
Also my favorite theme in the game!
One of the best on this soundtrack for sure. The extra boss theme rules too, and I love how the motif from the final boss theme is also in stage 6's theme.
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Best Stage 5 theme ever!
Anyone agree?
Also my favorite theme in the game!
Not the best stage 5 theme in my opinion, but it's my favorite theme from this game as well.
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Speculation time!
It is said that the Lucky Mallet is the treasure of the oni that Issun-Boushi exterminated. Since the other Deva have their own treasure, each with a special power, and the Lucky Mallet is a magical treasure itself, could it be that the oni that owned the mallet was a possible Deva? Though I have my doubts since they said only dwarfs can use the mallet.
Anyway, he/she is dead now.
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Well, my first impression is disappointment. Patterns are too chaotic, control-reversing and hitbox-enlarging gimmicks sound like very bad ideas for a danmaku game. I'm not really willing to pick this up anymore. But hey, I might just need to take some time to warm up to this game. Who knows.
ZUN is experimenting. Seija angered me with the flippin screen, but IN's Reisen angered me more with her red eyes.
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Well, my first impression is disappointment. Patterns are too chaotic, control-reversing and hitbox-enlarging gimmicks sound like very bad ideas for a danmaku game. I'm not really willing to pick this up anymore. But hey, I might just need to take some time to warm up to this game. Who knows.
I think that were done on purpose, the overall theme of the game seems to be chaos after all.
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I find it unfair that enlarging spellcard makes hitbox bigger but doesn't actually increase graze field like it is shown.
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BTW Does anyone know if they could unlock Extra mode in Easy mode? Honestly I'm not very good with Danmaku games. XD;
I finished it on Easy, and Extra didn't unlock for me. I used continues, though. Dunno if that matters or not towards unlocking Extra.
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Best Stage 5 theme ever!
Anyone agree?
Also my favorite theme in the game!
I'm partial to the stage 4 theme, myself.
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I finished it on Easy, and Extra didn't unlock for me. I used continues, though. Dunno if that matters or not towards unlocking Extra.
Yes. You have to 1cc (no continues) the games to unlock Extra and get the "good" endings.
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I finished it on Easy, and Extra didn't unlock for me. I used continues, though. Dunno if that matters or not towards unlocking Extra.
Actually, it does matter. You have to clear the game without continuing.
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I think the final boss, Sukuna Shinmyoumaru, is based on Japanese deity, Sukuna-Hikona no Mikoto since both characters are midget. I don't know much about both characters, can someone point out another similiarities? I can't find the deity's entry in the English wikipedia.
Some info about Sukuna-Hikona from SMT wiki (lol).
Sukuna-Hikona, or in full, Sukuna-Hikona No Kami, is the Japanese dwarf deity of healing and sake brewing and is associated with hot springs. He assisted Okuninushi in building the world and formulating protections against disease and wild animals in myths from the Izumo region.
He first arrived in Izumo in a small boat of bark and clad in goose skins. Later, he was picked up by Okuninushi, Sukuna-Hikona promptly bit him on the cheek. The two, nevertheless, became fast friends.
His shrine is located in Dosho-machi, Osaka.
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Stage 4:
SO MANY FREE PICKUPS SO EZ I am never fighting the corrupted version boss again
Stage 5: I WILL NEVER STOP SCREAMING
Stage 6: Oh that's not too bad THE SURVIVAL CARD IS FUCKING BULLSHIT THOUGH
Extra: THAT FUCKING DRUM SOLO OH MY GOOOOD
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I didn't 1cc normal, tried twice, one with ReimuA and second time with MarisaB , but my thoughts about the game are... ... It seems like ZUN watched some 'こんな東方はいやだ' and the fanmade Touhou Mountain of Faith AfterExtra. The hitbox enlargement and flipping screen totally remind me of those two, respectively. Not that it's a bad thing, but those gimmicks surprised, and annoyed the hell out of me.
New bullets are nice to have, but to learn their hitbox, that requires either trial and error, or looking at some places which would ruin some of the fun in the game... so mixed feelings on that one.
Really strange, the first three stages I reach 7 lives, and on the last 3 stages I proceed to lose them all to stupid stuff... Didn't try easy yet, but some people say that easy 1cc can unlock extra, so I think I'll try.
NICE BOWL
by the way. It's like Kaguya's spell with buddha's stone bowl suddenly became a real bowl.
I think it'd be more pretty if he just did it with lasers or something... ... but then it'd become hard if the other bullets stayed as they are, so whatever. Did I mention the survival card of the final boss kills me left and right...?
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I think the final boss, Sukuna Shinmyoumaru, is based on Japanese deity, Sukuna-Hikona no Mikoto since both characters are midget.
Nah, Shinmyoumaru is explicitly stated to be a descendant of Issun-Boushi in her profile, and there is no similarities between the deity and her outside of them being small.
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I find it unfair that enlarging spellcard makes hitbox bigger but doesn't actually increase graze field like it is shown.
I know right!?
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Is it just me, or do
Raiko remid me of Mitori?
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Aaaaand Lunatic 1cc. (http://www.mediafire.com/?hhonejnnwuq8ut9)
I'll just say holy fucking crap. The Lunatic in this game is absolutely bonkers insane. This is way, way harder than UFO Lunatic ever hoped to be.
This is not Lunatic. This is Ultra.
And it's glorious.
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Nice! I believed that you'll be one of the first players who manage to do it.
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Already? A Lunatic 1CC already? Wow... that was fast. when will it be up on Youtube?
I knew it would be within 24 hours... but this was a tad bit faster than I was expecting. I am loving the new characters we got, especially our new Extra Stage Boss... DRUMS OF THUNDER!
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Aaaaand Lunatic 1cc. (http://www.mediafire.com/?hhonejnnwuq8ut9)
I'll just say holy fucking crap. The Lunatic in this game is absolutely bonkers insane. This is way, way harder than UFO Lunatic ever hoped to be.
This is not Lunatic. This is Ultra.
And it's glorious.
>way harder than UFO Lunatic
oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy
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Damn the bullet density in Baben's non spells are insane. Seija and her stupid screen flipping. I love this game.
10/10 I died on Sekuna's second or third spell (lost track). The huge bullets the hearts, THE HEARTS.
EDIT: There seems to be a translation patch already.
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You know, I think as far as I know,
Seija
might be the only boss who breaks the western comparisions. WIth Benben, she is a biwa tsukumogami, biwa being similar to lute. Yatshuhashi is koto tsukumogami which has some western counterpart instruments like the finnish kantele. Susuna is a dwarf, so nothing to say here. Raiko is a (Taiko) drum tsukumogami, no nothing to say here either.
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Apparently, there's an Attack on Titan reference?
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Aaaaand Lunatic 1cc. (http://www.mediafire.com/?hhonejnnwuq8ut9)
I'll just say holy fucking crap. The Lunatic in this game is absolutely bonkers insane. This is way, way harder than UFO Lunatic ever hoped to be.
This is not Lunatic. This is Ultra.
And it's glorious.
I knew the glorious Jaimers would complete DDC on Lunatic. Will you upload it to YT?
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Well, my first impression is disappointment. Patterns are too chaotic, control-reversing and hitbox-enlarging gimmicks sound like very bad ideas for a danmaku game. I'm not really willing to pick this up anymore. But hey, I might just need to take some time to warm up to this game. Who knows.
I thought the same after playing a little. Coudn't help but think "just die already" on the whole 5th boss.
Maybe I played the demo too much and based my expectations from it.
The stage 4 was perfect imo, maybe I'll like the extra too.
-
Apparently, there's an Attack on Titan reference?
Final boss card 5 translates roughly to Attack on Dwarf. Since, y'know, she's a Dwarf.
-
Who doesn't hate Stage 5 bosses.
Now we have to wait for NDNB runs in NicoNico, pacifist runs and the Ultra Modo.
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Seija's left/right inversion is easy to adjust to, but up/down is just insane. Specially when the transition happens while she's shooting. I just can't get past her on Normal. I don't even wanna think about Hard.
Gods, its like playing Dark Souls again. It's glorious.
-
Aaaaand Lunatic 1cc. (http://www.mediafire.com/?hhonejnnwuq8ut9)
I'll just say holy fucking crap. The Lunatic in this game is absolutely bonkers insane. This is way, way harder than UFO Lunatic ever hoped to be.
This is not Lunatic. This is Ultra.
And it's glorious.
Oh my god what the hell. I've never been more intimidated by Lunatic before.
-
Seija's left/right inversion is easy to adjust to, but up/down is just insane. Specially when the transition happens while she's shooting. I just can't get past her on Normal. I don't even wanna think about Hard.
Gods, its like playing Dark Souls again. It's glorious.
It isn't sooo hard, the hardest one is the upside down that she flips the screen while shooting, in this one you can just keep yourself very close from the stream when the screen is normal and walk away from it while grazing it, when the screen starts to flip, hold the focus button and just keep pressing the button to walk away from the red shoots.
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Oh yeah, all those who were hoping the mirror youkai thing to happen?
Seija's second set of spellcards refer to mirrors.The Easy-Normal is called Reverse Sign "Danmaku of the Mirror Land" and the Hard-Lunatic is called Reverse Sign "Evil in the Mirror"
-
Oh yeah, all those who were hoping the mirror youkai thing to happen?
Seija's second set of spellcards refer to mirrors.The Easy-Normal is called Reverse Sign "Danmaku of the Mirror Land" and the Hard-Lunatic is called Reverse Sign "Evil in the Mirror"
The first spellcard name reminds me the Alice in the Wonderland story :P
-
EDIT: There seems to be a translation patch already.
Is it the same auto-updating patch or a new one?
-
Man, everything I want has to come out the same time! Farewell sleep, I hardly knew thee.
Hmmm, how's the difficulty on normal/hard? Would you say it's in the upper tier as the lunatic appears to be?
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Man, everything I want has to come out the same time! Farewell sleep, I hardly knew thee.
Hmmm, how's the difficulty on normal/hard? Would you say it's in the upper tier as the lunatic appears to be?
For me the normal is easier than UFO or SA since you can get a lot of lifes using the POC.
-
Normal - SA lunatic/UFO hard
Hard - SA ultra/UFO lunatic
Runatiku - UFO ultra lunatic/impossibru (except for Jaimers)
But POC abuse lowers it a lot.
-
So, DDC is the first windows game where stage 6 midboss doesn't say a single word before attacking (well, except of UFO for obvious reason).
And yeah, good Lunatic run :) Looking forward for Extra one.
Normal - SA lunatic/UFO hard
Hard - SA ultra/UFO lunatic
Runatiku - UFO ultra lunatic/impossibru (except for Jaimers)
Isn't it too much overestimated? I still have a hope to 1cc on Normal. It didn't look that much difficult.
-
Y'know, on closer look things seem way too interesting to pass up. But I'm still worried about those gimmick cards. How bad are they, the control-switching and hitbox-enlarging ones, especially on higher difficulties?
-
Normal 1cc and extra mode clear, both on my first try (though I did see the release streams last night so it's not really a blind run). Ooh man this game looks like it's going to be hell. HELL. And I will love it.
...Just as soon as the vsync patch is made and this input lag goes away. ;;
-
Is it the same auto-updating patch or a new one?
Yeah it's that updating one that's a pain to setup. But I don't think it's complete. Maybe I patched the trial version by accident. I'll try it again.
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Y'know, on closer look things seem way too interesting to pass up. But I'm still worried about those gimmick cards. How bad are they, the control-switching and hitbox-enlarging ones, especially on higher difficulties?
Impossible.
I can't do Stage 5.
I'm spamming stage/spell practice with stages 4 and 6 though.
-
...Just as soon as the vsync patch is made and this input lag goes away. ;;
You should be able to disable vsync yourself without a patch.
A somewhat underhanded workaround for the stage 5 boss would be to remap the controls when she uses a spell, but you didn't hear that from me.
I haven't played the game, but I'll guess that people are overstating the difficulty. I don't think anyone here has played the game enough to have a good understanding of it.
-
A somewhat underhanded workaround for the stage 5 boss would be to remap the controls when she uses a spell, but you didn't hear that from me.
I think GPU drivers usually contain tweaking applications which support this kind of screen manipulations.
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Y'know, on closer look things seem way too interesting to pass up. But I'm still worried about those gimmick cards. How bad are they, the control-switching and hitbox-enlarging ones, especially on higher difficulties?
The enlarging one isn't particularly difficult, nor is the first control switching one. The second one is trickier, but the last card is hell, because the screen turns as she's shooting. It's very easy to lose yourself during the transition. I just bomb everytime the screen begins to shift.
-
The enlarging one isn't particularly difficult, nor is the first control switching one. The second one is trickier, but the last card is hell, because the screen turns as she's shooting. It's very easy to lose yourself during the transition. I just bomb everytime the screen begins to shift.
The first two that do the control switch are doable with a bit of concentration. The last one, not so much. It's on my "Just Bomb It" list. :V
-
Alternatively, just play Super Hexagon and you will be prepared.
-
I see Stage 5 as "me spending hours in Spell Practice" because I need to teach myself how to work on reversed controls. First one especially since switching the left and right isn't as dramatic an eye change for my brain to process (it took me seeing the second card in the stream to realize what she was doing on the first). The last one is gonna take a good long time for me, though, since I'd need to get the rhythm down (or bomb spam)
-
The last one, not so much. It's on my "Just Bomb It" list. :V
Protip: keep holding the same direction you're currently moving in as the screen inverts. If you anticipate the bullets and "start" the pattern far enough whenever she shoots, it's actually pretty easy and you can almost do the transitions blindly (in fact that almost makes it easier). No such luck for her other spellcards though. :/
-
So wait, ZUN said there will be 21 tracks right? But the Music Room only shows 17.
-
So wait, ZUN said there will be 21 tracks right? But the Music Room only shows 17.
That was a rumor.
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Okay, finally got around to playing this a bit. Have cleared Normal/Extra so far. Both in one credit. (well, normal took 2 because i restarted it when my friend arrived but the first would probably have succeeded as i had full lives on Stage 5 boss)
Quite fond of most of it so far except the Stage 5 boss gimmick. Looking forward to messing with this game more soon!!
EDIT: Also, very happy to finally enjoy a new Touhou game. Haven't had that experience for a long LOOOOOOONG time.
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Hmm, the game seems to crash on full screen and forces me to sign out.
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well I can say that Reimu B, Marisa A and Sakuya B are just not worth using, there damage output when focused is so low they cant even capture some of Sukuna's Spell card and either get walled or the spell card times out, the only reason I'd see anyone actually using them is to see the endings related to each option but that's about it, they're just not worth the hassle otherwise.
Also, for anyone having trouble with Sukuna's survival card (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaMjP-v2yMw&feature=youtu.be)
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well I can say that Reimu B[...] not worth using, there damage output when focused is so low
Totally cannot second this statement. Did my 1cc of Normal on my second try using her with a few lifes remaining. She absolutely annihilates everything for me, though it felt like I was mostly unfocused throughout the stages and whenever I was below full power during bosses. Maybe it's just her unfocused shot that rocks so hard. But I honestly can't say focused shot was bad at all.
-
I keep on forgetting where the replay and score files are with ZUN's new format. Where are they?
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I keep on forgetting where the replay and score files are with ZUN's new format. Where are they?
They should be stored in "(Windows Partition):Users(Your Name)AppDataRoamingShanghaiAlice h14".
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well I can say that Reimu B, Marisa A and Sakuya B are just not worth using, there damage output when focused is so low they cant even capture some of Sukuna's Spell card and either get walled or the spell card times out, the only reason I'd see anyone actually using them is to see the endings related to each option but that's about it, they're just not worth the hassle otherwise.
Also, for anyone having trouble with Sukuna's survival card (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaMjP-v2yMw&feature=youtu.be)
Huh? I do fine with Reimu B, I like it more than A but I still play A only because you fight the other girl in stage 4 instead of Benben, and her second spell is just ugh...
Oh wow, my dumbass was trying to weave through the Kunais for Sukuna's timeout.
-
so apparently Seija's spellcards isnt the only thing evil about her...
-
...That Extra Boss theme. I love it. Especially that drum solo.
-
When are
minecraft jokes
are gonna happen?
-
So according to the current translation of Raiko's profile, she
threw away her old drumset and drummer for new ones. I can understand getting a new drumset, but how did she get a new drummer?
Apparently, this has to do with the "outside world's power." Anyone have thoughts on how this works?
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So according to the current translation of Raiko's profile, she threw away her old drumset and drummer for new ones. I can understand getting a new drumset, but how did she get a new drummer?
Apparently, this has to do with the "outside world's power." Anyone have thoughts on how this works?
I figured they meant her drun sticks.
-
Raiko is the best reason to recycle TD's spirit spawn sounds, and to have a drum solo using his new kit.
Officially the best TH game yet.
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>Raiko's new drummer
I'd say there's a decent chance she learnt how to draw power from Namco's game Taiko Master. I'm not kidding.
>Sukuna
The god Sukuna-bikona is generally believed to be one of the sources of One Inch Boy.
>Mirror Land
It literally is a reference to the second Alice book "Through the Looking-Glass", titled "Alice of Mirror Land" in Japan.
>Dwarfs. Written on the wiki.
For the sake of Antti Aarne and all the folklorists...
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The one that is taking revenge on the people who keep beating weak characters (I assume the stage 1 bosses). She's nice. Though really is the Touhou counterpart to a soccermom :V.
I would hate that screen flipping or hitbox enlarging (Making a "Expansion" pic based on that idea BTW) boss. Unless it's possible to remap controls during gameplay...........
And Inb4 Prismriver crossovers.
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every time someone says Sukuna i mistake it for myself
feels weird :<
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I had to purposely bomb Raiko's 4th spell. I couldn't take anymore screen shakes.
Raiko is my second Waifu now, next to Reisen.
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Well, you could use her actual first name, but, uh, I don't think anyone here has called her Shinmyoumaru in casual discussion except me. ^^;
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I know I'll try, but my spelling is horrid and I expect to have to look her name up on the wiki every time I need to do so for at least a good while.
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MarisaA tears apart that stage 5 midboss spell, though... and the first spell that she has. And the third spell with the arrow bullets.
By the way, in Sukuna's third card, it has a hat-hitbox in stage practice but it's just Sukuna by herself in Spell Practice so that's why MariA/ReimuB/SakuB can't capture it.
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I was just playing MarisaB and had one of her full-power unfocused lasers veer off at a crazy angle, breaking the formation and shooting off the left side of the screen. I believe it changed color as well. It may have been the one on the right closest to her. I went to screencap it and died. Has anyone else seen this? Is it a known thing? Or some kind of weird feature I was just unaware of? Only one of the four lasers moved, the other three were still in formation. It lasted for several seconds before I died, and was fixed when I came back and worked back up to full power. Not sure if it was doing damage or not. This was during the stage part of stage four.
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I was just playing MarisaB and had one of her full-power unfocused lasers veer off at a crazy angle, breaking the formation and shooting off the left side of the screen. I believe it changed color as well. It may have been the one on the right closest to her. I went to screencap it and died. Has anyone else seen this? Is it a known thing? Or some kind of weird feature I was just unaware of? Only one of the four lasers moved, the other three were still in formation. It lasted for several seconds before I died, and was fixed when I came back and worked back up to full power. Not sure if it was doing damage or not. This was during the stage part of stage four.
Yep, it's a bug from back in the demo v0.01a. Hopefully that gets fixed because it probably desynced your replay.
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Yep, it's a bug from back in the demo v0.01a. Hopefully that gets fixed because it probably desynced your replay.
Cool, thanks. Do we know what causes it, or is it random?
-
when will it be up on Youtube?
Will you upload it to YT?
Sure. :V
Lunatic 1cc ReimuB. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Iy6ucY2mlI)
Also perfected the stage 6 boss just now.
I'll try to get it with the stage as well tomorrow.
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Cool, thanks. Do we know what causes it, or is it random?
I never got it to trigger enough to find out anything more than it happens sometimes when powering up. At least for me it's quite rare so I never obtained enough data to be able to understand what causes it.
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So does anyone know why the weapons and Youkai have gone wild? I can't find any solid info yet that's out there but from the Final bosses ability it doesn't seem like she would behind that, from what stage 5's boss is it would make sense since she is a
amanojaku.
EDIT: Ok well just found something (hate it when that happens) it seems that is kinda true but they are working together but seems Sukuna isn't aware of the consequences of using the power of the lucky mallet, which I didn't know could do more then just change the size of who ever it's used on. GOD! I love this lore!
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So... people are going to call Shinmyonmaru by her last name and not the first, like with Minamitsu?
-
Whenever a Touhou character has a long name people generally call them by their last name. Miko, Mokou, Shieki ect... most people call Murasa by her first name.
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Except Miko and Mokou are first names. Eiki is Shikieiki's first name. Murasa is her last name, her first name is Minamitsu (I made that same mistake too, you know).
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So... people are going to call Shinmyonmaru by her last name and not the first, like with Minamitsu?
Shinmyoumaru is a boy's name. Also, it's huge.
-
I assume there's no english patch yet?
-
I assume there's no english patch yet?
There is, but it's only for the trial. It crashes on the full version.
Except Miko and Mokou are first names. Eiki is Shikieiki's first name. Murasa is her last name, her first name is Minamitsu (I made that same mistake too, you know).
Everything I once knew is now a lie.
-
Is it just me or half of the midget's attacks are the same on both Normal and Lunatic?
-
Shinmyoumaru is a boy's name. Also, it's huge.
I'm aware that it's a boy's name.
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I don't see the appeal of the songs in this game, there aren't many catchy songs to sing along with like in past times. They're not BAD, but seem only to prepare the mood for the stages and bosses. Lots of TD songs were like this as well, I hope it's not a pattern. I only really liked Wakasagihime's theme, Shimnyymoyyahyamaskdmsa's theme and certain parts of a few others.
Anyway, does anyone know if Reimu A's gohei does more damage if it's closer to the targets? It likes to stay at a distance, almost not touching, and it's slow to follow if the target moves. I like to "reset" it pressing focus again so it goes straight for the center for a moment, but it's probably a bit of damage loss if it's not an increase.
Also, someone should totally make a small danmakufu script to train inverted horizontal, inverted vertical and both :V
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Good morning!
I've spent 2 hours practising Stage 5 on Normal to try and 1CC on Normal. And I did it. Finished with 2 bombs. Now it's time to confront Raiko.
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Well I really can't believe that I passed Extra in my second try. O_O Raiko's moves are boss! (I don't know why, but her drums remind me of Donkey Kong :p )
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Is it just me or half of the midget's attacks are the same on both Normal and Lunatic?
They look a lot the same visually, but subtle differences go a long way; I don't think you could say any of them play like "normal but harder" except for her final.
-
Anyone else thinking
Raiko
looks like Yumemi
?
-
Sooooo, did the cursed weapons subplot turn out to have any relevance?
-
You know with all the item brought to life youkai in this game, I'm actually surprised Kogasa didn't make an appearance.
...
I'm actually surprised
...
DAMNIT KOGASA.
-
You know with all the item brought to life youkai in this game, I'm actually surprised Kogasa didn't make an appearance.
...
...
DAMNIT KOGASA.
Her meta game is getting deeper.
(And I'm glad she'll have some other tsukumogami friends now.)
-
You know with all the item brought to life youkai in this game, I'm actually surprised Kogasa didn't make an appearance.
...
...
DAMNIT KOGASA.
People seem to forget that Medicine and Kokoro are considered tsukumogamis as well...
-
Something is bugging me on the final boss' 4th spellcard timeout. Reimu seems to have a small hitbox even when it shows big and can glide through the blue kunai with ease but Marisa and Sakuya cannot (consequently making me learn what the "real" way is).
Something tells me that should be consistent and not like this.
-
Yeah it's pretty baloney. I'm not entirely sure how much smaller Reimu's hitbox is normally, maybe a pixel at most, but even if the grown hitbox was scaled with that, it shouldn't have nearly that much of an effect. Marisa and Sakuya's hitboxes clearly extend beyond the sprite: http://i.imgur.com/kZMrcmt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/w5uIvJQ.jpg (both deaths)
On a completely different track, if my play gets just a bit better than it was today, I should have a sloppyish Lunatic 1cc by the end of the week.
My last run had an abysmal stage 5 because I didn't want to spam too many bombs and yet got myself into dumb predicaments, and ended up eating a continue despite doing very well previously. Stage 6 went smoothly enough after that.
-
Well I'm not going to have a sloppy lunatic 1cc at all if the game keeps crashing during stage 4 boss :V
-
Announcement:
Clipdeaths are out. Flipdeaths are in.
-
People seem to forget that Medicine and Kokoro are considered tsukumogamis as well...
Those two are not fourth-wall tampering surprise-power characters.
-
I just played and I really lack practice, lost most of my life at Kagerou and game overed at the 4th one. Will just have to keep playing normal to get the feel, and maybe go for easy mode to reach EX.
Also, the music are nice, but may take a while for me to love them. I'll most likely listen more via the music select so I get the feel of the stages/boss.
-
Damn that EXboss feels really brutal. The stage isn't that bad but god, that exboss. She's the only exboss which basically forces me to bomb on every nonspell and I don't even want to talk about her spellcards (like her third one with the cannonbarrels, seriously. Took away two of my lives rather quickly :/ ). I could get to her survival spell, but that's it.
I haven't really played GFW though, so I don't really know how Marisa is as an exboss.
Really loving the game so far, the gameplay style and soundtrack is alot better than TD imo (I'm not saying TD was bad, I liked TD too). Especially the final boss theme, which I loved instantly.
-
How long will it take for Jaimers to perfect Stage 6 this time?
Judging from his perfect run of Ten Desire's Stage 6... if the games around the same level of easiness as TD, then within 24 hours of getting it. But if it's as hard as Stage 3 leads up to believe... It may take him a little while.
I think I'm about right on schedule. :D
Perfect Stage 6 Lunatic. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrnzRI-WM7I)
-
ReimuB now. >:(
SakuyaA did something weird to the second non's dense purple part.
-
Playing as SakuyaA feels almost like playing as Saya in SDOJ :V
-
Jaimers. Because it doesn't matter how hard a Touhou game is, he will always perfect the 6th stage.
Btw, EXBoss is win. Her survival is win.
-
MarisaA tears apart that stage 5 midboss spell, though... and the first spell that she has. And the third spell with the arrow bullets.
But why use MarisaA when MarisaB destroys every single spell card or situation in the game? It is ridiculously overpowered.
-
Bomb when you think you're going to get hit...
That's more reliable than death bombings! :)
-
In Marisa A's Extra dialogue, Raiko explicitly said the magic she found is called Taiko Drum Master (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiko_no_Tatsujin). My guess was completely correct: Raiko's new outside world drummers are people who play the Taiko Drum Master games.
Raiko: There are many people good at playing taiko in the outside world.
Raiko: They use this tool called something like "Taiko Drum Master".
I also find her battlecry (common to each route) interesting in this light:Raiko: O drummer of the outside world! Now is the time to sound the beats of battle!
Raiko's story reads to me like a response to the commonly seen "our traditional culture is dying" rhetoric: Japanese culture will live on, even in video games.
-
I still don't have the game. :(
Is the game limited or are there still copies?
But judging from the videos, I am looking forward to the music. All the music.
-
The official games are never out of print. No worry about that.
-
Raiko's story reads to me like a response to the commonly seen "our traditional culture is dying" rhetoric: Japanese culture will live on, even in video games.
Japanese culture will live on even more through video games if you consider that many Touhou fans live outside of Japan, and thanks to ZUN's games we are able to learn about myths and fairy tales that we probably would never have heard about otherwise.
Props ZUN, as always. :)
-
If Raiko got her power from a video game in the Outside World...I can well see some fanart/doujin of her learning about games from Sanae or playing with Sanae...
-
The question now is how do the Tsukumo Sisters keep their existence.
-
The question now is how do the Tsukumo Sisters keep their existence.
Raiko's profile says that she thaught other tsukumogami awakened by the mallet's influence how to exist even after the mallet's power entered it's re-absorption period.
-
The question is what is this method. We know how Raiko keeps her existence, but we don't know what the other tsukumogamis will do to survive.
Benben uses Guitar Hero*shot
-
The question is what is this method. We know how Raiko keeps her existence, but we don't know what the other tsukumogamis will do to survive.
Benben uses Guitar Hero*shot
Presumably, it's the same thing. Her profile just says that "[Raiko] taught this method" to the others, and the only method discussed is the one involving "magic from the outside world".
maybe there's a koto hero in touhouverse's outside world for Yatsuhashi to use :V
-
So, does Sakuya have a smaller hitbox than Marisa? I'm starting on another 1CC.
-
I think that Sakuya's hitbox is bigger.
-
I think that Sakuya's hitbox is bigger.
You sure? Don't go by who can graze the furthest since Sakuya normally has the highest graze box.
-
I just had a thought.
ZUN said some of TH14 was inspired by recent events in his life at some interview.
The Stage 6 boss is a Dwarf a small, human-like being.
With a mallet that can bring objects to life.
Life.
Small, Human-like
ZUN got married.
ZUN.Jr soon?
-
ZUN has watched LOTR.
-
shingeki no small person
-
In Marisa A's Extra dialogue, Raiko explicitly said the magic she found is called Taiko Drum Master (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiko_no_Tatsujin). My guess was completely correct: Raiko's new outside world drummers are people who play the Taiko Drum Master games.
I also find her battlecry (common to each route) interesting in this light:
Raiko's story reads to me like a response to the commonly seen "our traditional culture is dying" rhetoric: Japanese culture will live on, even in video games.
Raiko confirmed as rhythm gamer
-
So, Mima jokes, Nice Bowl jokes, and Fix-it Felix jokes where?
Raiko confirmed as rhythm gamer
new favorite character
-
Btw I'm totally making a Raiko character for Rock Band and give her the electronic drum set that looks similar to hers.
-
@Gpop You're telling me her survival card didn't already gave that away?
And wow, I knew Sukuna was small, but I didn't imagine her being as small as the game shows her
-
Btw I'm totally making a Raiko character for Rock Band and give her the electronic drum set that looks similar to hers.
That ought to be awesome.
-
I'm just really, really happy to see what he's done with stages, music, and physics.
-
My only problem is that ZUN used an odd resolution selection. You'd think he would use 640x480, 1280x720, and 1920x1080. My monitor doesn't normally support 1280x960 in fullscreen mode. Which means I have to use 960x720, which looks off in window mode but in full screen it doesn't stretch out like 640x480.
Regardless, this game far exceeded my expectations, DDC is my no.1 Touhou now.
-
My only problem is that ZUN used an odd resolution selection.
Which also leads to some graphics inconsistencies, like high-res character portraits among pixel-stretched sprites.
I think it's also part of why the game lags sometimes - ZUN hasn't quite optimized some of the computer-generated effects being rendered to large bitmaps, so there's some parts where DDC hogs resources. I get a 30 FPS drop when pausing after pichuun.
But these are pretty inconsequential issues.
Regardless, this game far exceeded my expectations, DDC is my no.1 Touhou now.
It's risen to my top 3 main series Touhous, among IN and UFO. I hope more people will warm up to DDC once it gets more of a foothold in the fandom and the official print works/spinoffs. The main mechanic ties well to the gameplay and the atmosphere makes it feel like ZUN's own "Alice in Wonderland". Shanghai Alice, that is.
gg ZUN I forgive you for TD
-
The bosses seem to be pretty easy in this game. It only took a two tries to clear extra, and on my first hard 1cc I was able to capture everything from Shinmyoumaru except for the timeout card (lousy grumble hitbox grumble deceiving)
That aside though, the music, atmosphere, and visuals are better than anything I could've expected. Might end up being one of my favorites, if not my absolute favorite
-
Daw, this game has the cutest final boss. :3
-
I agree. From a secondary's point of view, this game is awesome! Very cute girls and nice music. :)
-
I'm certainly having fun with my sprite art of them. They're so much fun to try and work out.
-
I was hearing Reverse Ideology, so i made the reverse audio version of Reverse Ideology, ZUN is a Genius...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEa3JiYselk
-
ZUN should release a 1.00b patch that stops Reimu's rod from moving away from the boss. It's really annoying when it's soo far away that it barely scratches them, making spell cards last longer.
-
ZUN should release a 1.00b patch that stops Reimu's rod from moving away from the boss. It's really annoying when it's soo far away that it barely scratches them, making spell cards last longer.
And that's why you unfocus and refocus to get it back on target. That's what I did and it does a lot of damage.
-
I try to wait until I have time to unfocus and that can be risky on dense patterns. But still...
-
BTW, shouldn't this thread be over at Eirin's by now?
-
Does anyone know how to handle Yatsuhashi's second spell card on Normal? I have absolutely no idea how to approach it and all the Normal runs I've seen just Bomb it.
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You should see it on higher difficulties. ^^;; It's pretty brutal. It's a lot like Kouryuu's final attack in Daioujou, but it seems a lot harder for some reason. It seems like the speed of the bullets make the streams overlap in inconvenient ways.
The trick to these kinds of spells is to move through the streams really aggressively. It's the same in Blue Lady Show.
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Does anyone know how to handle Yatsuhashi's second spell card on Normal? I have absolutely no idea how to approach it and all the Normal runs I've seen just Bomb it.
It's second nature to handle a pattern like this if you've played a lot of shmups like I have but I can at least give you some hints on how to approach it and save you the work of having to develop that instinct yourself :) You kinda wanna keep your focus on one row of bullets at a time and then time your movements so that it matches the location and speed of the bullets you are trying to fit through properly. It's really just a question of timing and understanding just how fast your character moves etc.
I'd suggest you entering the spell practice menu and practing it for a bit. If you still can't get the hang of it in, shall we say 50 attempts or something, post here again and I'll see if I can help you more thoroughly (unless someone else beats me to it)
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On a side note, does anyone know how Benben's second card works? It seems like some of the spirits are aimed towards you and others are aimed towards her, but it's just really bizarre.
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Benben shoots a few notes at you that lure the spirits towards them, on higher difficulties she shoots more notes and spread out so they lure even more spirits
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It's second nature to handle a pattern like this if you've played a lot of shmups like I have but I can at least give you some hints on how to approach it and save you the work of having to develop that instinct yourself :) You kinda wanna keep your focus on one row of bullets at a time and then time your movements so that it matches the location and speed of the bullets you are trying to fit through properly. It's really just a question of timing and understanding just how fast your character moves etc.
I'd suggest you entering the spell practice menu and practing it for a bit. If you still can't get the hang of it in, shall we say 50 attempts or something, post here again and I'll see if I can help you more thoroughly (unless someone else beats me to it)
Thank you! I will! It's definitely not going to be easy, as another issue I've always had is that I have trouble dodging through streams diagonally or backwards and no amount of practice seems to fix it. I just panic or move too much straight into the bullet.
*sigh* that certainly doesn't help.
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HOLY SHEET IT'S OUT
I am so thankful for this! Now I can postpone all plans of that UFO Lunatic 1cc indefinitely. I'll do this first, can't get any worse...
On the other hand, I still didn't manage to reach stage 6 after my second go on Normal. That may or may not indicate I have no idea what I'm talking about.
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Yeah, ZUN trolled us with the difficulty rising. TD was so easy he decided to troll us and make DDC nearly impossible. Now fans will demand an easier game, and then a harder one.
Of course, Jaimers (ands lots of Japanese players) have perfected Stage 6. Now I'm looking for a Perfect Stage 5 Lunatic.
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And wow, I knew Sukuna was small, but I didn't imagine her being as small as the game shows her
Well she's based on that same little bug guy that's in Okami, so of course she's tiny.
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Benben shoots a few notes at you that lure the spirits towards them, on higher difficulties she shoots more notes and spread out so they lure even more spirits
The notes are what make the spirits move (only spirits in the general vicinity of the notes get activated) but they don't actually move towards the notes. If you pay attention, a lot of the spirits will move directly towards you, but not all of them.
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> Screaming at Seija for screen-inverting :v
Anyway, the game is great. Benben and Yatsuhashi hardest Stage 4, while Seija hardest Stage 5.
Oh, and there's an English Patch already, btw.
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> Screaming at Seija for screen-inverting :v
Anyway, the game is great. Benben and Yatsuhashi hardest Stage 4, while Seija hardest Stage 5.
Oh, and there's an English Patch already, btw.
I have trouble believing that Seija is as hard as Shou. Actually, after 1MNBing her (Seija) on Normal yesterday, I did runs of some of the previous stage 5 bosses (Sakuya through Sanae) and Seija didn't seem notably more difficult than Sakuya and Youmu, at least.
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I urge you to try on Lunatic.
Granted, she might be easier than Shou assuming you've got the gimmicks down, but that happens to be really hard to do.
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Why does everyone seem to be taking a dump on ReimuB? She's stronk.
I think I'm about right on schedule. :D
Perfect Stage 6 Lunatic. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrnzRI-WM7I)
Congrats man! Now no-bomb Lunatic!
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Hell no, ReimuB takes really really long to kill patterns because her homing is insignificant and her shot is bad as a forward focus. Stronger shots have it infinitely easier because plenty of patterns just get harder overtime. Results in a jump in difficulty.
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Ehhh, the forward focus is a straight stable beam that simply requires you to align yourself with the boss. ReimuB takes out everything in 2~2.5 waves, which is the standard fare in most other games, AND there are shot types that kill stuff really fast in the other games too, so I assumed it's nothing out of the ordinary.
And the only pattern that really requires homing to kill is the Stage 3 midboss spell ...
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Yeah, ZUN trolled us with the difficulty rising. TD was so easy he decided to troll us and make DDC nearly impossible. Now fans will demand an easier game, and then a harder one.
Ah, "ZUN trolled/is trolling/will troll us". I never get tired of hearing that sad refrain from entitled fans.
EDIT: You have spellcard practice and stage practice. I highly recommend taking advantage of them. This game has ZUN playing around with perspective on all three axes. Practice will get you very far if you're willing to put the time into it. Pretty much echoing what Zengeku correctly pointed out, in other words: use the TWO practice modes ZUN gave you. You'll get better faster that way.
Oh, and there's an English Patch already, btw.
It's OK to link to patches. Which one are you referring to?
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It's OK to link to patches. Which one are you referring to?
It's probably the one from the Touhou Patch Center, not sure though.
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This game has ZUN playing around with perspective on all three axes. Practice will get you very far if you're willing to put the time into it.
Right now I'm kinda sceptical about things since certain parts on the game on Lunatic seems to be almost impossible if you play with the wrong shot. It's not a problem if it's just us who haven't found the right strats yet but it's a major issue if certain characters just can't do certain parts consistently. For as hard as UFO was, it is possible for every single character to bypass every single part of the game without bombs, dying or summoning/exploding UFO's consistently. In this game there are a few things were I'm really curious as to what people find out over time.
And whether certain spellcards I have in mind that even Jaimers have no idea about how to approach as it seems to be just luckshit (as of yesterday when i talked to him anyway) become more manageable as we figure things out. This is an exciting time for Touhou indeed. Definitely more exciting than something like TD where everyone can just conclude that everything is a joke and feel like there's no Lunatic mode at all.
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Formless: ReimuB just doesn't have enough range, and unlike Marisa, doesn't have enough power as well. Examples off the top are the stage five midboss and attack on midget.
And yep the problem with this game is that it seems outright unreasonable to play without bombing. As in, the game was designed with Bomb Every as the one and only playstyle. Even if you forget about the gimmicks.
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And yep the problem with this game is that it seems outright unreasonable to play without bombing. As in, the game was designed with Bomb Every as the one and only playstyle. Even if you forget about the gimmicks.
This seems like premature hyperbole for comic effect.
And whether certain spellcards I have in mind that even Jaimers have no idea about how to approach as it seems to be just luckshit (as of yesterday when i talked to him anyway) become more manageable as we figure things out. This is an exciting time for Touhou indeed. Definitely more exciting than something like TD where everyone can just conclude that everything is a joke and feel like there's no Lunatic mode at all.
Couldn't agree more.
Also, if anyone has tried that sketchy auto-updated English patch, feel free to share your experience. I'm personally a bit wary about installing a patch that can be updated with the input of random users.
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Key word is 'seems' but yeah. It's not like people are saying this wihout good reason. We'll see?
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Oh yeah, don't get me wrong. I've been in Spell Practice all morning. I feel your pain. I'm also really curious to see how better players than I think their way through some of these.
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LNB is certainly still an option. The question is whether or not it is possible to NMNB the game with the weakest characters.
One thing that that will definitely be a requirement is get some sort of hold of all the bullshit in the game.
Say for example you'll want to LNB this game with SakuyaB. That means you have to get used enough to the Stage 5 bosses weird controls to be able to survive them for long enough with the weakest character in the game. For now, it will involve a handful of forced deaths because certain things are just luckbased crap meant to be bombed and then you have to practice enough so that the final boss' survival spell won't bullshittily kill you with it's horrendous hitboxes.
I think maybe that's what BT meant.
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I've used the auto-updating patch, and even though I haven't done a full run of the game with it on, I've seen enough to say that it looks pretty good so far. It's not complete (they're saying they're going to be working on doing spell card stuff today), but they have dialogue, most menu options, and the endings done for it.
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Does anyone feel a rebellious arc coming up in the next few games?
Also, I still don't have the game, why am I spoiling myself so much.
An English patch already? And what is the Touhou Patch Center exactly? Link would be nice for when I do get the game.
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This (http://thpatch.net/wiki/Touhou_Patch_Center:Download) is the autoupdating English patch link page. I haven't been able to get it to install properly yet, but to be honest, seeing all that .js makes me nervous as hell. Not because of any vulnerabilities, but because it seems like needless bloat.
Maybe I'll just wait for the tried-and-true, use once and you're done English patch.
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That english patch isn't the full one. It's the one from the demo and it crashes on any boss but the stages 1-3 bosses.
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That english patch isn't the full one. It's the one from the demo and it crashes on any boss but the stages 1-3 bosses.
So, in other words, it's useless.
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That english patch isn't the full one. It's the one from the demo and it crashes on any boss but the stages 1-3 bosses.
They've fixed that, I've been using it and it supports at least up to stage 5 with no crashes and dialogue translated.
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Oh ok, the spell cards aren't done but atleast I have most of the story.
That crash might've been DDC's fault because it didn't happen a second time. It seems to have updated the difficulty menu, and it supports all stages including extra. Spell cards only go up to stage 3 and doesn't show translated in spell practice, that's odd since spell practice in IN updated to whatever it is in game. So if you take a score.dat from an english save, spell practice would show up in english but it reverts if you play it.
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I guess the main question on my mind about this patch is this:
If stuff isn't completely translated and/or patched, why release a patch prematurely? I mean, great that they've patched the parts they have and all, but why would I install a patch that only patches part of the game, with "updates pending" via a series of .js and .dll files?
How about - oh I dunno - releasing a patch when the whole game is, in fact, actually patched? Just throwin' that out there.
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I dunno about the quality of the patch itself, but from what I hear the man behind it is very sketchy. Like, Icycalm sketchy. I'm honestly not sure I'd trust a patch in the hands of someone like that. I think I'll just wait on a normal, orthodox patch.
Plus, I'm not sure you should be using a patch when its usefulness is stated in terms of "it goes up to ____ without crashing."
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How about - oh I dunno - releasing a patch when the whole game is, in fact, actually patched? Just throwin' that out there.
Because this kind of translation allows anyone who is good in Japanese to take part in it. For example, if you know Japanese and at some point "I think it's better to translate this way" and write your version. Next guy who will see it during playing can improve it too e.t.c. Something like this.
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Likewise, 'Nut. Having the patch connected to who knows who in order to get said updates is sketchy as hell.
Vectorfish: that sounds like a clusterfuck. That stuff should be sorted pre-release, like it always has been. A good patch takes time.
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I didn't check it myself but I heard that some of translations of previous touhou games which are done using this mechanics are significantly better than old hardmode-patching ones which no one will ever update again. So actually this kind of translation has its advantages.
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Because this kind of translation allows anyone who is good in Japanese to take part in it. For example, if you know Japanese and at some point "I think it's better to translate this way" and write your version. Next guy who will see it during playing can improve it too e.t.c. Something like this.
So the fanbase owns the means of production for the patch, with no qualified expert set to lead the project? Sounds vaguely familiar...
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Is it just me or is stage 5 really harder to pass than stage 6...? I thought I will never have to face inverted spell cards again... and then it appears in TH14... * has to find out the technique passing them *
The extra stage... I actually laughed during the time-out card when I heard the melody being played out by those bullets... -.- ...
Overall... Average level of difficulty * except inverted spell cards * ... and also that stage 6 boss time-out card which enlarge your character hitbox... I can say I'm so not used to having such a huge hitbox lolz... To me that's quite an original idea...
Love Stage 6 themes very much... addictive...
Good music + new style of spell cards = Love...
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I guess the main question on my mind about this patch is this:
If stuff isn't completely translated and/or patched, why release a patch prematurely? I mean, great that they've patched the parts they have and all, but why would I install a patch that only patches part of the game, with "updates pending" via a series of .js and .dll files?
How about - oh I dunno - releasing a patch when the whole game is, in fact, actually patched? Just throwin' that out there.
I don't like the style either tbh. But atleast we can understand what the game is about. I've learned to settle for whatever translation patch I can get being a man who plays JRPGs. Those games are time consuming and not to many people make patches or even finish them due to being a tedious task.
If this was FF-Type 0 you'd be holding on to any patch or even a text walkthrough. You can even play that game if you don't speak jap unless you like video walkthroughs.
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I dislike the idea of the stage 5 boss. Mainly that's because when you look past the gimmick, her spells are absurdly easy for a stage 5 boss. Obviously, they're toned down to make up for the fact that you can't control yourself as well during them, and I don't like that. From the player's standpoint, your ideal course of action is to simply get used to the different controls until you reach the point where you're at no disadvantage from it, but then the spells aren't going to be any different. They'll still be absurdly easy. She's a boss who gets all of her difficulty from hindering your ability to actually control the character, and once you've learned to cope with that, she has nothing. I think I might find her fun until the novelty wore off, and then she'd be either annoying or boring, depending on how well I've adapted to the controls. It's a sacrifice of gameplay in exchange for short term shock value. And that's extremely disappointing. I would go so far as to say it's one of the worst decisions ZUN has ever made in one of these games.
At least the boss herself is really hot.
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That patch has sounded dubious to me from the get go. Can't you just check the wiki for translations?
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At least the boss herself is really hot.
So in the end, all is well and fair in wonderland.
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I dislike the idea of the stage 5 boss. Mainly that's because when you look past the gimmick, her spells are absurdly easy for a stage 5 boss. Obviously, they're toned down to make up for the fact that you can't control yourself as well during them, and I don't like that. From the players standpoint, your ideal course of action is to simply get used to the different controls until you reach the point where you're at no disadvantage from it, but then the spells aren't going to be any different. They'll still be absurdly easy.
I don't know how well other players can adapt to reversing but I have a lot of problems with it. Actually, I have more problems after that when I find it to be difficult to control my character using proper non-reversed controls. Part of my brain uses controls properly but at the same time the other part of it still tries to "fix" it for reverse orientation which results in chaotic movement and I can't avoid properly even obvious threats. I feel that I'd have to take breaks after this boss before starting next stage when I'll be doing my 1cc Normal.
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So in the end, all is well and fair in wonderland.
For anyone who doesn't care about gaining some kind of consistency against her, sure. Fortunately that group includes me, but my heart goes out to all the players who lose their high scores because they accidentally fell back on the reflexes which they've been honing for years and years.
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I dislike the idea of the stage 5 boss. Mainly that's because when you look past the gimmick, her spells are absurdly easy for a stage 5 boss. Obviously, they're toned down to make up for the fact that you can't control yourself as well during them, and I don't like that. From the player's standpoint, your ideal course of action is to simply get used to the different controls until you reach the point where you're at no disadvantage from it, but then the spells aren't going to be any different. They'll still be absurdly easy. She's a boss who gets all of her difficulty from hindering your ability to actually control the character, and once you've learned to cope with that, she has nothing. I think I might find her fun until the novelty wore off, and then she'd be either annoying or boring, depending on how well I've adapted to the controls. It's a sacrifice of gameplay in exchange for short term shock value. And that's extremely disappointing. I would go so far as to say it's one of the worst decisions ZUN has ever made in one of these games.
You pretty much described that, the whole point of the spells being easy is for the gimmick. I like ZUN switching things up, we need something fresh in Touhou. Reverse controls isn't something everyone can get used to. So the spells are simplified in order to be fair to the player rather than add more unnecessary difficulty.
Personally I'd like to see more bosses use gimmicks and more unique attacks. We don't have that very often in the series. Sakuya, Reisen, Orin, Alice, and Medicine is all we got.
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You use the same parts of your brain for the controls; you have to flip your visualization. I like it. It plays with the player's sense of perspective. It brings the 'reverse castle' to life. I think it's great he's taken this creative approach. YMMV.
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I didn't check it myself but I heard that some of translations of previous touhou games which are done using this mechanics are significantly better than old hardmode-patching ones which no one will ever update again. So actually this kind of translation has its advantages.
Better? More accurate maybe, but it's still a topic of hot debate whether it's better to stick to literal translation or to take some liberties like they did. It's still static patch for me, better or worse.
I've learned to settle for whatever translation patch I can get being a man who plays JRPGs. Those games are time consuming and not to many people make patches or even finish them due to being a tedious task.
Touhou fandom can do much better than that, don't you agree? Even HM patch will be done eventually.
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I can't wait for the Minish Cap parodies with Sasuga's Hammer...This is turning out to be my favorite game in the series since SA.
Dat flipping mechanic though...just wow. I wonder how long ZUN was hiding that gimmick up his sleeve...just waiting for that one boss to use it with :V
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Touhou fandom can do much better than that, don't you agree? Even HM patch will be done eventually.
I agree, this patch isn't much, but it's close enough until a better comes, so it's a take it or leave it situation. You also have to remember that Touhou isn't a long game in terms of dialog. If the people who work on JRPGs did a Touhou translation, it would be done within a day and accuracy checked the next day. I doubt Touhou translators have the dedication for something 100x longer.
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So the spells are simplified in order to be fair to the player rather than add more unnecessary difficulty.
That doesn't make it fair. If changing the controls where unfair to begin with, making the attack easier in compensation wouldn't make that any different. It would still be unfair, just a bit easier. Difficulty and fairness are separate things. It's like making an extremely easy game and then requiring that anyone who plays learn to juggle first. There is absolutely no connection between her gimmick and the nature of her spell cards. e: the structure of the patterns I mean.
It may be cool and fitting with the story, but from a gameplay perspective I think it's terrible.
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You think switching Left and Right or Up and Down for a few seconds is like learning to juggle? Clearly you never tried to juggle!
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Contents of reverse.ahk autohotkey script :V
b::Left
c::Right
f::Up
v::Down
r::Left
y::Right
t::Up
5::Down
This tactic was mentioned by someone in one of the th14 threads. This cheat is undetectable :3
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You think switching Left and Right or Up and Down for a few seconds is like learning to juggle? Clearly you never tried to juggle.
It's similar in that it's something you can't work your way through strategically, or even by relying on past experience. You have to sew it into your muscle memory from scratch. If you want to play as well against Seija's spells as you would against something normal, there's nothing you can do but work the controls into your brain. And not merely that, but you have to be able to shift into the different effects right in the middle of a run, without warming up or anything, and without accidentally reverting back to the habits you've developed for everything else in the past. It's a bizarre ability that you're not going to be good at naturally, so you have to spend a significant amount of time practicing it specifically.
But in any case that's beside the point. I'm not saying it's unfair, or too hard to learn. It's perfectly doable with enough practice. My problem with it is that it's totally detached from the gameplay itself. Your ideal reaction to it is to reach a point where it's existence is completely irrelevant, and you have nothing left but an overly simple boss battle. The "technique" you've learned is merely to manipulate the controls, and I don't see the fun in that. Learning a game's controls is an aspect of practically every game in existence, and there's probably some fun in it, but that's just a precursor to actually playing the game. If the game itself is the process of learning controls, then it has no value once you've achieved that.
That's my opinion on it anyway. I'll acknowledge that the perspective I'm looking at it from is probably not the most common. Some, if not most, people can probably just enjoy being bamboozled by it every time, but for anyone who wants to reach a point where they can say "I can almost definitely capture those spells in a full run" I think it would be tormenting.
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Regarding Seijia's easy spellcards once you get over the gimmicks - she did say she(they?) was weak :V
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From the player's standpoint, your ideal course of action is to simply get used to it, but then the spells aren't going to be any different.
So it's the same as any other spell card?
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So it's the same as any other spell card?
The average Stage 5 spell card is still threatening even after you get used to it, though.
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This cheat is undetectable :3
I somehow doubt that.
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Zil, I agree with your posts entirely. The earlier was of course just a joke since I'm very much in the camp of people who's concerned with how this will affect my consistency. For Ammy I'll say that I see your point and it's a decent point from a non-gameplay perspective but you probably just don't understand because you don't play on Lunatic mode and yes, I don't like to pull that card on you but in this case it's relevant. On lower difficulty modes the patterns are much less complicated so swapping the controls doesn't hurt so much but on Lunatic where the RNG can sometimes generate waves that require more complicated movement maneuvers, it get's considerably more troublesome, annoying and capable of messing up high scores because of the player for just a split second accidentally relying on their - in some players case - over a decade old muscle memory.
I somehow doubt that.
I have been considering that option too but I decided against it. However, how would you go about proving that it isn't just a player who has gotten very good at handling the swapped controls? Silly as it may sound?
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For Ammy I'll say that I see your point and it's a decent point from a non-gameplay perspective but you probably just don't understand because you don't play on Lunatic mode and -
Ha, cute. But let's consider the facts:
The patterns that players are up against in this bossfight are already matched to their level. This is the case for Easy, Normal, Hard and Lunatic. Is the mirroring effect necessarily harder for Lunatic players than anyone else? Well, the spellcards already match your skill level, and you already have the proper reflexes and pattern reading. So the only new variable in the mix is your ability to do the mental mirroring in your head for like, 3 or 4 seconds. But guess what else? There is Spell and Stage practice. They are there, and they can be used. Aren't you usually fond of telling others to practice more?
I think most of the griping about Stage 5 is because players are being required to play differently, in the middle of a boss fight, for a few seconds. I have no beef with people who have a personal distaste for the strategy. Different strokes and all that.
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So basically what I'm getting out of this is that ZUN reacted to TD being too easy and tried to make Lunatic DDC harder, but didn't balance it properly?
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I dunno Ammy, I'm with Zengeku on this one. Having played normal, hard, and lunatic, the small jump in what's required goes a long way towards increasing the difficulty level. Once you reach the point where dodges that would be a bit tricky even normally need to be performed with flipped controls, it's almost impossible to do without your normal reflexes kicking in. But the difference between normal and even hard is that on lunatic it is all but impossible to avoid the situations where these dodges are required, which, in my opinion, is the actual challenge behind the reversed control spell cards. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about it like everyone else, but they do have a point about the jump in lunatic being far higher than it is normally due to the way the spell cards are balanced.
Also, first hard 1cc, first try. Whoo! Didn't think I'd make it after dying 4 times on Benben and 3 on Seija. I continued the trend with only 2 deaths on Shinmyoumaru, and made it out 0/1.
So basically what I'm getting out of this is that ZUN reacted to TD being too easy and tried to make Lunatic DDC harder, but didn't balance it properly?
I wouldn't go that far. This lunatic is certainly harder than previous ones, but I wouldn't call it unbalanced. It's merely balanced for a higher level of skill than is usually required for Touhou. The only solution, obviously, is for us to get better along with it! >:D
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Quick question. Do you guys consider Raiko the easiest Extra boss or Mokou?
Personally I see Raiko being miles harder than Mokou but the people I spoke with seems to think otherwise.
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I can totally see Kogasa and the three newbies making a band. Singer Kogasa :D
Also, Raiko instantly ranks high in my favourite character list, for obvious reasons, as well as her style. Seriously, that's the sort of style I'd like. Except with shorts. Doesn't *quite* top 'give me Elly's hat', but it's close.
Wait a second.
Raiko has no headwear/accessory
WAAAAIT A SECOND [Warning, Raikaria Art inbound]
(http://i.imgur.com/l0DDhmI.png)
PERFECT. [That is supposed to be Elly's hat shuddup]
Also I was always under the impression Suwako was the easiest EXBoss. Mamizou is pretty easy too, even I can almost clear her, and her final spell is literally a complete joke. I can't get anywhere against Mokou.
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it's almost impossible to do without your normal reflexes kicking in.
Yeah, we all have those reflexes, regardless of difficulty. The whole purpose of the flip is to force you to forget your reflexes.
I think that's where people are tripping up here. The only new variable, for any skill level, is whether or not you can teach yourself to mirror-image L and R or U and D for a few seconds. That's really it. Of course it takes time to learn, but hey, there's two types of practice to do that with. But I realize I'm spitting into the ocean here by pointing this out.
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I can totally see Kogasa and the three newbies making a band. Singer Kogasa :D
Also, Raiko instantly ranks high in my favourite character list, for obvious reasons, as well as her style. Seriously, that's the sort of style I'd like. Except with shorts. Doesn't *quite* top 'give me Elly's hat', but it's close.
Wait a second.
Raiko has no headwear/accessory
WAAAAIT A SECOND [Warning, Raikaria Art inbound]
(http://i.imgur.com/l0DDhmI.png)
PERFECT. [That is supposed to be Elly's hat shuddup]
Also I was always under the impression Suwako was the easiest EXBoss. Mamizou is pretty easy too, even I can almost clear her, and her final spell is literally a complete joke. I can't get anywhere against Mokou.
Stop ruining my Waifu! >:( I can't believe you think wako is easy.
On a side note, the patch now translates Spell cards. I wish it would give some kind of notification when it updates. Still no music room.
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Ha, cute. But let's consider the facts:
The patterns that players are up against in this bossfight are already matched to their level. This is the case for Easy, Normal, Hard and Lunatic. Is the mirroring effect necessarily harder for Lunatic players than anyone else? Well, the spellcards already match your skill level, and you already have the proper reflexes and pattern reading. So the only new variable in the mix is your ability to do the mental mirroring in your head for like, 3 or 4 seconds. But guess what else? There is Spell and Stage practice. They are there, and they can be used. Aren't you usually fond of telling others to practice more?
I think most of the griping about Stage 5 is because players are being required to play differently, in the middle of a boss fight, for a few seconds. I have no beef with people who have a personal distaste for the strategy. Different strokes and all that.
While I agree with you in theory, does that completely apply in practice in this case? I'm asking genuinely, because I've been doing the vertical flip spell all-horizontal on lower difficulties and haven't been having much trouble with it, but I don't know if on Hard and Lunatic it changes such that you have to do at least some vertical movement. The mechanics of the way the spell works on each difficulty might invalidate workarounds to a certain extent.
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Stop ruining my Waifu! >:( I can't believe you think wako is easy.
On a side note, the patch now translates Spell cards. I wish it would give some kind of notification when it updates. Still no music room.
Ruining? Elly's Hat suits everything. It's like Guile's theme.
My art, on the other hand, does not.
And I can get further in Suwako than Mokou.
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I hadn't seen a picture of Raiko until now, but now that I have it's occurring to me that most, if not all, Touhous would look better with a tie. Do this for me, internet.
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Personally I think Suwako is the easiest Ex Boss like Mokou. I don't see any problems with their spells as they are pretty simple and basic even to dodge.
On the other side I think Raiko is not easy but she has her easy spells, I can say she is kind in the middle of al Ex Bosses, specially with her last two spells.
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There is only ONE attack where you actually have to deal with reversed controls.
If the game itself is the process of learning controls, then it has no value once you've achieved that.
That's kind of a slap in the face to rhythm and racing games.
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While I agree with you in theory, does that completely apply in practice in this case? I'm asking genuinely, because I've been doing the vertical flip spell all-horizontal on lower difficulties and haven't been having much trouble with it, but I don't know if on Hard and Lunatic it changes such that you have to do at least some vertical movement. The mechanics of the way the spell works on each difficulty might invalidate workarounds to a certain extent.
Point well taken. I think here we see a difference between a game aspect in theory, and in practice, based largely on expectations. The horizontal and vertical flips are more reminiscent of a puzzle game, to me anyway; performing a geometric mental trick for your controls. But your mindset of gameplay is on a shmup, with its emphasis on reflex and muscle-memory movement. So those few seconds are pretty jarring, having to suddenly shift gears into a puzzle game mindset, and then back again. It's learnable, at least. But I get why tastes on the use of it are going to vary widely, too; I respect where people are coming from here.
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Point well taken. I think here we see a difference between a game aspect in theory, and in practice, based largely on expectations. The horizontal and vertical flips are more reminiscent of a puzzle game, to me anyway; performing a geometric mental trick for your controls. But your mindset of gameplay is on a shmup, with its emphasis on reflex and muscle-memory movement. So those few seconds are pretty jarring, having to suddenly shift gears into a puzzle game mindset, and then back again. It's learnable, at least. But I get why tastes on the use of it are going to vary widely, too; I respect where people are coming from here.
One thing that I like in shmup games like Touhou is that it has a "puzzle feeling" in some patterns or spellcards like Yukari's last spellcard from PCB or Mokou's timeout spellcard on IN. It isn't just reflex, you have to think to solve problems or try it doing a trial-and-error. Now I remembered one old puzzle game that I loved in my childhood.
http://youtu.be/gAv6v4UdaBs?t=32m7s
It is a time-limit puzzle, you have to move yourself to the correct place before being crushed by the silver blocks. With this game as reference I always considered Touhou like games as a mix of puzzles and shrumps. This way I think that people are saying that "Seija is too hard" just because of the new game's hype, the Touhou-series always had this kind of challenges.
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But your mindset of gameplay is on a shmup, with its emphasis on reflex and muscle-memory movement.
The vertical flip uses reflex (no-vert) and the horizontal uses muscle memory (left-right mirroring). To me a puzzle is something you figure out once then kick its ass every time. The Stage 5 boss isn't like that.
On an unrelated note, this thing looks like it'd be fun to timeout
(http://sphotos-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q71/1186718_4575233039218_768724839_n.jpg)
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well it's official, Touhou has FINALLY managed to drive me to self harm in frustration! after the 50th time of game overing to the extra stage from BULLSHIT I banged my head on my keyboard so hard I now have a big bleeding cut right in the middle of my forehead!
So yeah, I can safely say that DDC's Extra is now my least favourite in the series Hands Down! The stage is a clusterfuck that no matter how many times I retry I cant figure out half of it for the life of me, the midboss is plain bullshit and no matter how many times I practice the spell cards in teh spell card practice, I can NEVER capture them in the stage unless I am SUPER LUCKY! And I haven't even seen ALL of the spell card's either!
And while I haven't beaten SA's extra, mainly cos Koishi's spellcards still give me trouble, at least the Stage portion of SA's Extra is nice and simple, DDC's is just a clusterfuck.
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The vertical flip uses reflex (no-vert) and the horizontal uses muscle memory (left-right mirroring). To me a puzzle is something you figure out once then kick its ass every time. The Stage 5 boss isn't like that.
On an unrelated note, this thing looks like it'd be fun to timeout
(http://sphotos-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q71/1186718_4575233039218_768724839_n.jpg)
That DOES look like fun. How fast are the daggers moving, same speed? Is it even possible to weave through it at that point?
well it's official, Touhou has FINALLY managed to drive me to self harm in frustration! after the 50th time of game overing to the extra stage from BULLSHIT I banged my head on my keyboard so hard I now have a big bleeding cut right in the middle of my forehead!
So yeah, I can safely say that DDC's Extra is now my least favourite in the series Hands Down! The stage is a clusterfuck that no matter how many times I retry I cant figure out half of it for the life of me, the midboss is plain bullshit and no matter how many times I practice the spell cards in teh spell card practice, I can NEVER capture them in the stage unless I am SUPER LUCKY! And I haven't even seen ALL of the spell card's either!
And while I haven't beaten SA's extra, mainly cos Koishi's spellcards still give me trouble, at least the Stage portion of SA's Extra is nice and simple, DDC's is just a clusterfuck.
Post Mid-Boss, after the initial wave. Stand still for the laser shots, you should be okay. When the blue fairies come, run around the screen clockwise. When the last wave of green fairies arrive, run counter-clockwise.
I do not like the midboss either, the bullets moving out and off screen coming back is really a big pain.
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well it's official, Touhou has FINALLY managed to drive me to self harm in frustration! after the 50th time of game overing to the extra stage from BULLSHIT I banged my head on my keyboard so hard I now have a big bleeding cut right in the middle of my forehead!
So yeah, I can safely say that DDC's Extra is now my least favourite in the series Hands Down! The stage is a clusterfuck that no matter how many times I retry I cant figure out half of it for the life of me, the midboss is plain bullshit and no matter how many times I practice the spell cards in teh spell card practice, I can NEVER capture them in the stage unless I am SUPER LUCKY! And I haven't even seen ALL of the spell card's either!
And while I haven't beaten SA's extra, mainly cos Koishi's spellcards still give me trouble, at least the Stage portion of SA's Extra is nice and simple, DDC's is just a clusterfuck.
The only thing I find difficult about the stage portion is getting life pieces and the mid-boss. Raiko herself isn't exactly hard. I've been hearing about how easy she is ever since the game released. The stage portion is probably the most simple of all of them, with 10D and MOF and SA following.
EDIT: I won't lie, the mid-boss are over-powered, even in the main game. They're more annoying than anyone before them.
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Daggers move at the same speed. There are still plenty enough space to weave through, but you probably have to stay in the walls longer than usual.
The music notes bouncing off the screen border are nearly static. Just remember where you dodged the first wave.
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Raiko isn't easy, but if you get enough resources in the stage you can bomb everything and finish with enough to spare. The mid bosses are hard, specially the last card, but you don't have to capture their spellcards to beat the extra.
People have different concepts of "easy" and "hard". To me, if you can't capture anything but you can bomb everything and beat the extra everytime, then it's very easy. That's Mokou's and Raiko's cases for me, because you have more resources than you need to beat them, even if you still get destroyed by her attacks. Now try capturing all spellcards, and Mokou will probaly be one of the hardest.
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So, any word on a vsync patch? I did some fiddling with my video card, but I'm still getting some lag that makes it so Lame-u doesn't stop on a dime.
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Prolly shoulda mentioned that I'm using Marisa B and as long as her disk is on screen, Raiko will remain invincible even though your invincibility ends long before the disk goes away so it always ends up doing more harm than good usually, and here's a link to a replay of one of my extra attempts so you guys can see for yourself what I'm doing wrong, and the part where you have lazers coming from both sides of the screen I bomb there intentionally for the resource and because I can sit in the disk completely safe from the lazers. http://www.mediafire.com/?9e6f7mgu3fxd9wv
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I doubt Touhou translators have the dedication for something 100x longer.
Trust me, if I didn't have a job, this would be done in a day or two.
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Point well taken. I think here we see a difference between a game aspect in theory, and in practice, based largely on expectations. The horizontal and vertical flips are more reminiscent of a puzzle game, to me anyway; performing a geometric mental trick for your controls. But your mindset of gameplay is on a shmup, with its emphasis on reflex and muscle-memory movement. So those few seconds are pretty jarring, having to suddenly shift gears into a puzzle game mindset, and then back again. It's learnable, at least. But I get why tastes on the use of it are going to vary widely, too; I respect where people are coming from here.
Touhou is basically always a puzzle game, as far as I know. Maybe that's way I'm super terrible at it. :derp:
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Touhou is basically always a puzzle game, as far as I know. Maybe that's way I'm super terrible at it. :derp:
I'm guilty as well for being terrible at it. :ohdear:
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This hasn't been posted in this thread, right? YUKE, author of the "I don't want my Touhou to be like this!" videos (Touhou All Stars Medley, Unreasonable Mechanism, etc) plays DDC for the first time, and tastes his own poison.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21581793
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21581908
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Regarding the auto-patcher thing, I think a lot of people are missing the point. It's not supposed to be a hard patch. It's supposed to be a way to check the wiki in-game. That's literally what it is. If there weren't technical formatting reasons along with some drama I'm sure it would be linked to the touhouwiki directly. It uses the exact same philosophy. Quite frankly, a lot of the patches have bad translations and because they're not subject to constant review they'll never get fixed, ever. That's not an insult to the translators, it's just a fact of life. When people want an actual translation they'll just check the wiki or compare it to the Japanese or something. This is the value of the touhouwiki, and it's also the value of the auto-patcher thing. No more and no less.
Speed is the proof of concept, but the real value is the fact that it's editable. If you don't appreciate that value, then don't use it, but personally I don't trust any one of us enough to create a perfect translation in one go.
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Get on my level.
(http://s21.postimg.org/rnfbu7s9z/Untitled.png)
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and here's a link to a replay of one of my extra attempts so you guys can see for yourself what I'm doing wrong
Alright, I took a look at it. First off, I'll have to direct you to someone who actually knows how to play MarisaB and ask that you follow similar strats maybe? Try this:
http://puu.sh/425Tx
Other things that I could really notice is that sometimes you just stop moving and allow things to hit you. This is not a very solid strategy. Try to move out of the way next time. Honestly, this entire situation reeks of someone who needs a bit of L2P. Your dodging is not very good, your resource management is worse and you definitely don't show any signs of actually having practiced this stuff.
Furthermore, I'm almost offended that you consider anything within this stage bullshit because you obviously have no idea what bullshit is. You need to stop complaining about not being able to handle totally legitimate bullet patterns and instead take your time improving your skills so that you may dodge these things more consistently. I'll say it again, there's no bullshit to be found in this stage. Most players I know and talk to on a regular basis think most of it is easy.
tl;dr? Play more.
Also, why are you playing with MarisaB if you really think she's such a burden? Get ReimuA or SakuyaA on the case if you're really having so much trouble with a bomb that's more harm than it's good, as ridiculous as that sounds.
EDIT: added link
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Regarding the auto-patcher thing, I think a lot of people are missing the point. It's not supposed to be a hard patch. It's supposed to be a way to check the wiki in-game. That's literally what it is. If there weren't technical formatting reasons along with some drama I'm sure it would be linked to the touhouwiki directly. It uses the exact same philosophy. Quite frankly, a lot of the patches have bad translations and because they're not subject to constant review they'll never get fixed, ever. That's not an insult to the translators, it's just a fact of life. When people want an actual translation they'll just check the wiki or compare it to the Japanese or something. This is the value of the touhouwiki, and it's also the value of the auto-patcher thing. No more and no less.
Speed is the proof of concept, but the real value is the fact that it's editable. If you don't appreciate that value, then don't use it, but personally I don't trust any one of us enough to create a perfect translation in one go.
I think a big issue people seem to have with it is one or more certain, ah, unsavory characters behind it. It's not an issue for me, since a useful tool is a useful tool, but I'm not gonna try to convince others to feel the same way, since I don't blame them
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Quite frankly, a lot of the patches have bad translations and because they're not subject to constant review they'll never get fixed, ever. That's not an insult to the translators, it's just a fact of life. When people want an actual translation they'll just check the wiki or compare it to the Japanese or something.
There are "actual translations" in the English patches. I can't think of any examples of translations in game patches that were significantly off enough to warrant a "fix". Of course, if people want rolling updates right off the Wiki, that's fine in and of itself, but:
Speed is the proof of concept, but the real value is the fact that it's editable. If you don't appreciate that value, then don't use it, but personally I don't trust any one of us enough to create a perfect translation in one go.
Oh, don't worry, I have no intention of using this patch, but I'm also going to say why I think it might be a bad idea for others to install an unfinished patch from a supposedly shady source that's got a bunch of .js files in it. And I'm not sure if you were around for the creation of previous hard patches, but they aren't banged out in one go. They take time to make.
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I'm still not seeing what's wrong with what we got now. Accuracy? If so then I'm pretty sure someone can compare the auto translations to the normal ones. Some, simply want to understand what the game is about with referring to wiki. If the problem is about accuracy then I doubt the understanding of the game people have after using this one would change very much from one that may be more accurate.
It's all we have atm.
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Worst English patches are MoF's and PoFV's cause they can cause desyncs
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I've used the auto-updating patch, and even though I haven't done a full run of the game with it on, I've seen enough to say that it looks pretty good so far. It's not complete (they're saying they're going to be working on doing spell card stuff today), but they have dialogue, most menu options, and the endings done for it.
I happen to disagree. Compared to the translation at the Touhou Wiki, the one at the Touhou Patch Center seems so...stiff and literal. The translation should be coming from the Touhou Wiki instead.
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There are "actual translations" in the English patches. I can't think of any examples of translations in game patches that were significantly off enough to warrant a "fix".
Off the top of my head, we somehow managed to screw up "Laplace's Demon" in Hisoutensoku. Which is weird, because the only way to do that would be to both miss the reference and translate it less literally (and with unnecessary wordiness, in case you think space might have been a concern). Maybe it's cruel to nitpick, but it's a simple fact that no one's perfect, and we all miss stuff. Whether or not something is missed within the arbitrary amount of time allocated to create a patch "in one go" is more random than anything else.
I happen to disagree. Compared to the translation at the Touhou Wiki, the one at the Touhou Patch Center seems so...stiff and literal. The translation should be coming from the Touhou Wiki instead.
Honestly I feel like we should just copy-paste stuff from the wiki to the patch site. I can't really think of a reason not to except drama.
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So I've been watching the wiki closely to see the translations of all the text, and...
Raiko's profile keeps saying she got a new "drummer". I recall reading a while ago that people were theorizing it refers to her drumsticks, but...I'm wondering, DOES IT ACTUALLY MEAN SHE TOOK OVER SOMEONE ELSE'S BODY? Considering the game seems to imply on one of the A routes that using a tsukumogami will lead to you becoming them...
EDIT: Also, regarding a subject a few pages back about Seija's spells not being that hard if you ignore the interface screw, TVTropes has an answer for you: They posit that this is intentional because she constantly implies she is one of the weaklings. It would make sense, then, for her danmaku to be weak as well, only bolstered by her gimmick. Take out the gimmick and you get a weak, pathetic youkai...
(And apparently, ZUN tries to justify that gimmick with her contrarian attitude. XD)
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Worst English patches are MoF's and PoFV's cause they can cause desyncs
But PoFV's is insanely useful for reading the numbers! Best patch ever!
That is kind of a thing though. I wonder if you could end up with an auto-updating patch where you get a replay that only syncs on some long lost incarnation of the patch.
edit: TVtropes has nothing to do with anything.
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Just throwing this out there: I tried the auto-updating English patch, and didn't encounter any difficulties throughout the whole game.... until I went into Spell Practice and the game started crashing like crazy. At first I thought it was a game glitch, but I compared the vanilla and "patched" versions of the game, and it's clear that the patch makes the game go bonkers and crash about 80% of the time when using Spell Practice. I immediately deleted the patch after that.
I don't recommend getting it. I'd much rather wait for whoever makes the English patches for the other games to come out with one for this game--non-sketchy and stable.
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I don't recommend getting it. I'd much rather wait for whoever makes the English patches for the other games to come out with one for this game--non-sketchy and stable.
I've been using the patch all day and most of the time it was in spell practice and haven't encountered a glitch or crash at all.
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Yes, the crashing has been fixed recently. Using software that is still being developed for a game that came out two days ago, bugs are to be expected
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Huh. As long as it's not crashing, considering that I've seen in a stream that the patch is pretty much finished (save accuracy fixes and other minor translation improvements, which are to be expected) apart from Music Room comments, I don't see much of a reason not to use it. It's not like I can't switch to a "hard patch" after one is released.
A lower quality translation is a lot better then zero translation, and the normal patches take a little while. I'd like to be able to read my endings at the very least, so...!
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I don't follow these things, any news on an english patch yet?
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I don't follow these things, any news on an english patch yet?
scroll up
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scroll up
Ah, thanks. I forgot that MoTK sends you to your first unread rather than the latest, so I must have been reading page 5. <_<
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I'm fine with being unable to read a thing until the usual kind of patch comes around. In times like these for me it's the music and gameplay that matter more.
On a random note: Lul beat Lunatic finally, even if it was due to Marisa B item farming like crazy with that bomb (I wanted Reimu A or Sakuya A but with that Benben lunatic crash...)
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A bit (or maybe really) late on the topic of Seija's difficulty, but I found her screen-flipping cards easy as well, at least once I got used to the controls (vertflip being the harder one because of diagonal bullets making it harder to avoid using up/down). Her last spell is really easy once you understand how it works and stop panicking at the rotated screen. Well, on Normal at least. Her midboss spell isn't a problem either, but the arrow spell and all of her non-spells are kind of a pain -- including her ones from stage 6. She might not be as deadly as Orin, but I don't think I'll ever forget that she's still a stage 5 boss.
As for the translation patch, I'll wait until the patch from the usual people is released, unless they gave up because of this new patch. I don't know, the idea of a self-updating patch is too revolutionary for me. patch patch patch.
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Welp, I always thought "Change Air Brave" sounded retarded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moveGxHiREw)
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Get on my level.
(http://s21.postimg.org/rnfbu7s9z/Untitled.png)
Oh god it keeps track of this now?!
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I noticed, Sukuna seems to lack the immunity to bombs on her final spellcard :v
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I'm pretty sure the final phase is somewhat immune. Takes like three bombs to finish it I think.
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Oh god it keeps track of this now?!
And has done so for a loooong time.
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Can I ask for some tips to capture Sukuna's 3rd spell card while using MarisaB? I tried for roughly 40 times and still can't figure out how to able to stay in the middle long enough to capture it before getting hit.
Gosh, as much as I love that flamethrower, it's just...suck compare to MarisaB.
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I've never actually followed but how long does it take after a game is released for there to be a vpatch available
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Can I ask for some tips to capture Sukuna's 3rd spell card while using MarisaB? I tried for roughly 40 times and still can't figure out how to able to stay in the middle long enough to capture it before getting hit.
Gosh, as much as I love that flamethrower, it's just...suck compare to MarisaB.
Have one with ReimuB. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmcBm_ciftE&feature=c4-overview&list=UUZ9PQxQXQ3-jobt5LgPE3dg)
SakuyaB is impossible, don't even try.
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Oh god it keeps track of this now?!
That's been in since PCB. It looked different in PCB and IN, MOF is what it looks like on all Touhous now.
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Have one with ReimuB. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmcBm_ciftE&feature=c4-overview&list=UUZ9PQxQXQ3-jobt5LgPE3dg)
SakuyaB is impossible, don't even try.
Thank. I guess my best bet would be trying to time out that spell instead of thinking about beating her health to zero.
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Any tips for capturing the one where Sukuna makes you giant when you're not Reimu? Even after 70+ tries I still can't get the hang of misdirecting those knives without taking a micro bullet in the face (or literally in the knee, those giant hitboxes still weird me out).
A replay would help, too.
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https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636011/th14_16.rpy
You need to stream in a way so that you are VERY clear of the knives. Your hitboxes are fucked up because ZUN is an idiot so you need to keep a good distance between you and the knives and then stream like this. After the knife stream ends, move back again as close as you can get to the kunai but be wary that they are butts too. Then stream with the knives again.
It's a very stupid attack and I don't blame you for failing it so much. Hope this helps.
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Thank. I guess my best bet would be trying to time out that spell instead of thinking about beating her health to zero.
Oh, I thought you were aware - there's no bowl-hitbox in spell practice, so it's much much easier to finish her off before the timer ends in an actual run.
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https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636011/th14_16.rpy
You need to stream in a way so that you are VERY clear of the knives. Your hitboxes are fucked up because ZUN is an idiot so you need to keep a good distance between you and the knives and then stream like this. After the knife stream ends, move back again as close as you can get to the kunai but be wary that they are butts too. Then stream with the knives again.
It's a very stupid attack and I don't blame you for failing it so much. Hope this helps.
Thanks! I'll study it and see if I can manage myself.
But I have to admit concept of this attack is pretty neat, screwed up hitboxes notwithstanding.
That's why I enjoyed this game so much, not only the system for extends rewards you quickly, the bosses managed to be gimmicky in a good way for the most part.
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Funny enough, I find Seija's first spellcard much harder to deal with than when she flips things. It reminds me of Reimu's "Danmaku Barrier" spellcard from Imperishable Night - another clearly easy spellcard that I always have trouble with. The arrows that rise from below, though, not much of a problem. No idea why.
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Because the arrows make you think they're small and then make you think they're big and really they're not that big at all. You could make some crazy squeezes in Nue's arrow rain spell in TD Extra.
Just a comparison, I got a timeout of the backwards arrow spell in like three tries while a timeout of the jellybeans spell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_FahuRpEBs) took me ~250 tries.
e: link
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Funny enough, I find Seija's first spellcard much harder to deal with than when she flips things. It reminds me of Reimu's "Danmaku Barrier" spellcard from Imperishable Night - another clearly easy spellcard that I always have trouble with. The arrows that rise from below, though, not much of a problem. No idea why.
I actually find the opposite to be true for me. I don't have that much trouble with the midboss card unless I accidentally smash into Seija but the arrow card is quite a challenge for me (though it is a fun one). I'm playing on normal mode though so it might be different
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Funny enough, I find Seija's first spellcard much harder to deal with than when she flips things. It reminds me of Reimu's "Danmaku Barrier" spellcard from Imperishable Night - another clearly easy spellcard that I always have trouble with. The arrows that rise from below, though, not much of a problem. No idea why.
The worst part of this one is that you can't dodge everything by just going left or right on higher difficulties, from what I've seen on replays. The one where she completely flips the screen you can pretty much always employ the same strategy and succeed, as there's not much reaction involved, at least on normal.
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Marisa go home you're drunk (http://puu.sh/42Met.jpg)
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Marisa go home you're drunk (http://puu.sh/42Met.jpg)
Now imagine if the center laser adjusted itself on enemies and locked on then if you focused. That'd make a pretty cool shot type. And it'd pierce stuff, obviously.
I miss Marisa piercing stuff. :(
Anyway, what's up with Marisa always bugging something with her shots? I had misdirect lasers on TH13 sometimes, too.
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We Non-Directonal Laser now
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Anyway, what's up with Marisa always bugging something with her shots? I had misdirect lasers on TH13 sometimes, too.
I got a laser to bug out in UFO while I was playing with Cheat Engine :V
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I noticed, Sukuna seems to lack the immunity to bombs on her final spellcard :v
She gets armor during bombs, much like Utsuho during her final card
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Ok, so I'm really rusty at STGs and I can't even beat stage 5 normal right now, but I have this to say about the game:
Best touhou since Mountain of Faith.
Best music since Subterranean Animism.
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I'm not sure if it's just me, but I think I found a bug on Seija's first two flipping spells. If you pause, Alt+enter to windowed mode, and resume, the controls go back to normal.
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I'm not sure if it's just me, but I think I found a bug on Seija's first two flipping spells. If you pause, Alt+enter to windowed mode, and resume, the controls go back to normal.
Oh dear lord this sounds horrible.
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I just did some testing, and lo and behold he/she is right. However, it will still be an obvious cheat in replays, since doing this would extend the "actual time" by about 13 seconds longer than the "in-game time" clock. Still, this will be interesting for practice purposes.
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I'm not sure if it's just me, but I think I found a bug on Seija's first two flipping spells. If you pause, Alt+enter to windowed mode, and resume, the controls go back to normal.
I think her last spellcard has a small issue as well. It doesn't always flip the screen again once you clear it. I've been doing it non-stop (loving this spellcard) and eventually she exploded, ran off, and didn't bother to clean up after herself >:
...Inverted DDC. Hmm. >_>
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Oh my, this changes everything.
EDIT: It works on all of her spells.
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Well, nothing like that is technically cheating. You are just taking advantage of a flaw in the system. I'm not sure what to think of it but then again, the gimmick itself is pretty bad so I wouldn't hold it against anyone to take whatever measures available to circumvent the issue.
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Actually it is cheating. Taking advantage of flaws is the basis of cheating(that's how TASs are done).
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No, TAS's uses external tools to cheat at the game. Exploiting flaws in the game itself has been fair game since forever.
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I've been fooling around with stage 4 lunatic and I found that even for a relatively unskilled player, the stage portion is quite easy.
Here's a video of the path I take (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjiYS7BoZdI) (No bomb, 1 derp miss). It's not specific to any shot type. Actually, most of it can be done without shooting at all.
Of course perfecting Yatsuhashi is a completely different story, and I don't have the skills for that, but if usual lunatic players can deal with her last spell, I think it can be reasonably pacifist-perfect'd.
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I kind of think this is different, although I can't really articulate why. Seems like something that involves alt-tabbing goes beyond flaws in the game and into manipulating things outside of the game itself. Not that I have a stake in this or really care, but intuitively it doesn't seem as fair game as something like Malice Cannon.
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I kind of think this is different, although I can't really articulate why. Seems like something that involves alt-tabbing goes beyond flaws in the game and into manipulating things outside of the game itself. Not that I have a stake in this or really care, but intuitively it doesn't seem as fair game as something like Malice Cannon.
I agree. I have nothing against using bugs or oversights in-game which break an attack, even if I don't like using them myself. But this isn't something that is based on skill or cleverness, or even exploiting a flaw in the attack; you are doing something that can not possibly be done on accident or when playing as you do the rest of the series, using a programming oversight to override an attack. You could call it legitimate all you like, but this seems to be on a different level altogether.
Well, thankfully the replays will show who uses what, so we can use our own judgement.
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If there was a "flaw" that you could exploit to beat the game without doing nothing, that would not be cheating? I disagree completely, the game was clearly not made to be that way. In a way exploits are still cheating.
In my opinion ANYTHING that makes you easier to control during Seija's attacks are cheating, like changing your monitor settings, rotating your monitor, rotating your head, changing your controls, Alt-tabbing to fix the screen, even pausing for no reason is unfair (and ZUN seems to agree, "please do not pause the game for any other reason than to stop playing"). Abusing MarisaB's power 3 in MoF is cheating as well.
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No, TAS's uses external tools to cheat at the game. Exploiting flaws in the game itself has been fair game since forever.
Exploiting flaws instead of doing it the way it was intended is considered cheating. I guess the Konami code is fair game in your eyes?
Regardless, no one would be able to tell.
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Well, I've never seen those completion stats before, never found em.
Anyway, I've been seeing a lot of hate towards the Stage5 boss for 'relying on a gimmick'. But that used to be the norm for Stage 5 bosses, if I recall. Sakuya's time-stop. Youmu's slow-mo, Reisen's whole thing. Although it kind of stopped in MoF->TD, the 'Religion Arc' is over with anyway, so maybe the Gimmick-Stage 5 Bosses are back?
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That gimmick is not too bad anymore. Stage 6 boss is a hundred times more idiotic.
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Well, I've never seen those completion stats before, never found em.
Anyway, I've been seeing a lot of hate towards the Stage5 boss for 'relying on a gimmick'. But that used to be the norm for Stage 5 bosses, if I recall. Sakuya's time-stop. Youmu's slow-mo, Reisen's whole thing. Although it kind of stopped in MoF->TD, the 'Religion Arc' is over with anyway, so maybe the Gimmick-Stage 5 Bosses are back?
Zombie Fairies on SA? Curvy Lasers on UFO? Those count as gimmick, more or less.
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Yeah sure and next game, the gimmick will be bosses firing bullets at you.
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you don't need to cheat to do any of Seija's stuff holy shit pls git gud
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I would support a hack that shrinks Marisa and Sakuya's hitboxes on that one spell though lol
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No, TAS's uses external tools to cheat at the game. Exploiting flaws in the game itself has been fair game since forever.
Actually, TAS doesn't produce any changes in game mechanics and it doesn't violate game memory (though it can be read), it uses only those game flaws which already exist in the game. Almost everything you see in TAS videos is technically possible to be reproduced by a mere human without any external tools.
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Actually, TAS doesn't produce any changes in game mechanics and it doesn't violate game memory (though it can be read), it uses only those game flaws which already exist in the game. Almost everything you see in TAS videos is technically possible to be reproduced by a mere human without any external tools.
Slowing the game to a crawl and possibly even rewinding it to get better results is very definitely "cheating".
Legit slowdown is also totally cheating if it's a really significant amount, same thing.
Yes, TAS isn't hacking the game and can be a totally cool category by itself, but it's definitely a form of cheating. If someone TAS'd in a competition would you allow it to count?
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Slowing the game to a crawl and possibly even rewinding it to get better results is very definitely "cheating".
Legit slowdown is also totally cheating if it's a really significant amount, same thing.
Yes, TAS isn't hacking the game and can be a totally cool category by itself, but it's definitely a form of cheating. If someone TAS'd in a competition would you allow it to count?
Well, that's not what I tried to say. I meant that "exploiting flaws in the game itself" and "doing TAS" are pretty much the same thing. For some reason, Zil considers one of them to be acceptable form of playing while the other to be cheating.
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Exploiting flaws instead of doing it the way it was intended is considered cheating.
No, it isn't. There are a million examples of unintended effects/safespots which are universally accepted and utilized by people who play these games competitively.
Actually, TAS doesn't produce any changes in game mechanics and it doesn't violate game memory (though it can be read), it uses only those game flaws which already exist in the game. Almost everything you see in TAS videos is technically possible to be reproduced by a mere human without any external tools.
I never said otherwise.
Well, that's not what I tried to say. I meant that "exploiting flaws in the game itself" and "doing TAS" is the same thing.
No it isn't.
e: TAS means "tool assisted speedrun/scorerun/etc." If something was not done with tool assistance, it isn't a TAS.
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Let's consider that it was my misunderstanding of what you told. I don't think it' s a good idea to continue this discussion in this topic.
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Zil you need to stop cheating
on PoDD
with BEVENTLAED
.
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if science gets to understand how it's possible to stuff this much manure into tiny spaces such as a head, we could solve all energy problems worldwide. some of you guys need to explain how you managed to do that.
Almost everything you see in TAS videos is technically possible to be reproduced by a mere human without any external tools.
dude, seriously? a 3b score in PCB lunatic is considered to be on world level, but that TASMAFU replay with MarisaA is over 7b. it half of the shit the guy's pulling was humanly possible, then I sure as hell would like to see a run with those tricks. you should probably do some research before you post claims like that. TAS-runs are there to show the limit of the game, not to be reproduced. I'm surprised zil didn't mention that.
In my opinion ANYTHING that makes you easier to control during Seija's attacks are cheating, like changing your monitor settings, rotating your monitor, rotating your head, changing your controls, Alt-tabbing to fix the screen, even pausing for no reason is unfair (and ZUN seems to agree, "please do not pause the game for any other reason than to stop playing"). Abusing MarisaB's power 3 in MoF is cheating as well.
some yes, some no. Alt-tabbing would probably be ccheating, tilting your head is not. rotating your monitor also sounds like a dumb idea consdiering a lot of people have flat screens. unless I misunderstand something here. and nobody pauses for no reasion. it doesn#t help ou in touhou anyway is the screen blurs and you can't see shit to help you.
also, every WR with MarisaB uses the 3-power glitch. does that mean every marisaB world record is invalidated? are you serious? then I better go grab my world tracked record. you too should do some research before you start saying dumb things.
there are other things that were addressed, but Zil already answered those in a much friendlier manner than I ever could.
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I didn't really care for this soundtrack at first, but I think it just clicked with me somehow, and now I love it. Weird.
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I never said it invalidates the score, it just means he DID abuse the bug to achieve it, and competes with other people who cheat as well. And I don't see any reason why the Seija exploits or even stuff like visible hitbox in EoSD or "true bullet hitbox" patches wouldn't be allowed if the bug is. Just because it's an in game feature? Big deal. And if the game had an internal cheat it would be fine?
I could care less about score, but it's still a laughable abuse in normal play, you kill everything in a matter of seconds and barely have to dodge anything. There's no merit in finishing the game abusing this bug, at least in my opinion, but no one is going to prevent you from using exploits or invalidate your score because of them, plus most other exploits and patches are undetectable anyway.
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I can't decide if I like the midget boss or not. On one hand she is the second post-MoF final boss without shitty nonspells (the other one is Byakuren), on the other hand she has way too many IN garbage that promotes SP abuse (the 3rd spell requires a path; while hitbox, knives, Shingeki and the final attack can be dealt with normally, if you use the same movements the attacks will look the same every time, meaning SP can trivialize them as well.) Add that to the RNG fest in Stage 3 and 4, I think ZUN should just axe SP for good.
Her music is absolutely divine, though.
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isn't just pausing the game a form of abuse?
Well, I've never seen those completion stats before, never found em.
Anyway, I've been seeing a lot of hate towards the Stage5 boss for 'relying on a gimmick'. But that used to be the norm for Stage 5 bosses, if I recall. Sakuya's time-stop. Youmu's slow-mo, Reisen's whole thing. Although it kind of stopped in MoF->TD, the 'Religion Arc' is over with anyway, so maybe the Gimmick-Stage 5 Bosses are back?
I think that the old silly things done to illustrate the character's special power are way more innocent. What I really disliked about it is having to practice more on her than on the last boss, not because of the danmaku, but just because the controls are reversed.
Question: Am I completely missing the point, or do Sakuya B, when you shoot exactly where the knives meet, does about the same damage as Sakuya A?
On Sukuna...
Is she the first barefoot character in the series?
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On Sukuna...
Is she the first barefoot character in the series?
Nope. Minoriko came before her. Benben and Yatsuhashi are also barefoot.
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Cirno is also barefoot in DDC, and so is Tewi allllll the way back in IN.
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Question: Am I completely missing the point, or do Sakuya B, when you shoot exactly where the knives meet, does about the same damage as Sakuya A?
She does no extra damage by being close to the boss. Instead, SakuyaB's special shot ability is to steal PIV from enemies; and if you're closer, she steals more.
SakuyaB is pretty much purely a scoring shot. Her bomb's trait is to convert bullets into a much larger amount of PIV then other bombs, and it does no damage.
MarisaA, however, really does do extra damage by shooting up close. (MariB's special power is making enemies drop power with her focus shot, and Reimu's specials are just "this shot is really good, right?", rofl. She has a slightly smaller hitbox though and ReimuA is a super good shot so she's already set)
Oh yeah. Marisa has a slightly lower auto-collect line (which actually matters for once, and makes me mess up trying to just barely PoC with other characters sometimes) and Sakuya makes items fall a little slower (also more relevant then usual)
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Zombie Fairies on SA? Curvy Lasers on UFO? Those count as gimmick, more or less.
No, those are not really gimmicks. Especially the Curvy Lasers. LETTY uses them.
Speaking of other characters using stuff:
Sakuya A's delayed shots are not knives. They're SWORDS. I just noticed that, having not played the demo. [I got B and A mixed up a second ago :V]
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Speaking of other characters using stuff:
Sakuya A's delayed shots are not knives. They're SWORDS. I just noticed that, having not played the demo. [I got B and A mixed up a second ago :V]
I was wondering about that, but the sword she is carrying still looks like a knife. :p
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No, those are not really gimmicks. Especially the Curvy Lasers. LETTY uses them.
Oh on the contrary, they are. Who else uses Zombie Fairies besides Rin? No one. Who fully abuses curvy as an attack rather than conjunction to the bullets besides Shou? No one. (Well maybe Nazrin, but regardless)
Sakuya A's delayed shots are not knives. They're SWORDS. I just noticed that, having not played the demo. [I got B and A mixed up a second ago :V]
Uh, no. They're knives.
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Who else uses Zombie Fairies besides Rin? No one.
Ever played Imperishable Night?
Zombie fairies are nothing but familiars.
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dude, seriously? a 3b score in PCB lunatic is considered to be on world level, but that TASMAFU replay with MarisaA is over 7b. it half of the shit the guy's pulling was humanly possible, then I sure as hell would like to see a run with those tricks. you should probably do some research before you post claims like that. TAS-runs are there to show the limit of the game, not to be reproduced. I'm surprised zil didn't mention that.
It seems I can't leave this discussion without explaining my point of view properly.
"Almost everything you see in TAS videos is technically possible to be reproduced by a mere human without any external tools." The main word is technically. When I say technically, I mean that there is a theoretical possibility to be reproduced. For example, make a pacifist Lunatic run is technically possible, the game doesn't make it impossible. On the other hand, flying through lasers, one-hit killing shots, infinite numbers of lives of bombs etc - all of them are technically impossible without modifying the game memory or engine (if such flaws don't exist in the game). When Zil told "TAS's uses external tools to cheat at the game", I don't know if he meant it in a way I understood it but I read it as such external tools which modify the game and voilate game mechanics (but game rules), and such things can't be reproduced by a human without those tools. If you think about it, slowing down, loading, memory reading (not writing) - all of them make the game easier but they don't change the game. The fact that TAS replays can be played at any computer means that such replays are still technically valid because replays are free of hacks; the replay of the run where the player tried to change game mechanics would just desynchronize the game if you try to play it elsewhere.
Anyway, I doubt that that much people are interested in this discussion to talk about it here. If there is anyone who wants to discuss it, feel free to PM me. Yeah, I may be wrong about my point of view but still, let's discuss it somewhere else to not disturb other people.
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the definition and context of "valid" being used is what's important here
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dude, seriously? a 3b score in PCB lunatic is considered to be on world level, but that TASMAFU replay with MarisaA is over 7b. it half of the shit the guy's pulling was humanly possible, then I sure as hell would like to see a run with those tricks. you should probably do some research before you post claims like that. TAS-runs are there to show the limit of the game, not to be reproduced. I'm surprised zil didn't mention that.
Well, theoretically. Like if you're superspeed-reflex-godlike-dexterity Akyuu remembering every last method you've learned to replicate the TAS you've watched because if you don't you'll never-ever-ever beat Kaguya in speedrunning her own boss fight, it'd be "humanly possible". Theoretically.
...I don't even know why I explained it that way. Okay then.
Ever played Imperishable Night?
Zombie fairies are nothing but familiars.
nothing but annoying familiars with a ton of uses that tend to end up everywhere over the screen like big stationary bullets and revive every time you kill them sometimes leaving resurrection bullets for you to deal with that are hardly orthodox whatsoever, yes
and im pretty sure we made it clear never to compare letty to shou
one of them is pure evil and the other one gets hay fever a lot
PURE EVIL
On other note, I was beaten to the chase by a ninja Vectorfish.
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v1.00b patch released, fixing the Lunatic stage 4 crash bug, among other things. http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/html/th14dl.html
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big stationary bullets
resurrection bullets
speak english
v1.00b patch released, fixing the Lunatic stage 4 crash bug, among other things. http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/html/th14dl.html
JAIMERRRRRRRRRRRRS
EDIT: The knifestream attack gets the bowl in Practice. Alt+Tab no longer works for Seija. Hitbox spell still retarded. I'm surprised he actually gave Sukuner the bowl though. I think he'll fix the hitbox in the next patch if we bug him enough.
YEAH GOOD LUCK WITH THOSE NON-SPELLS
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speak english
Things with big hitboxes
Pretending to be the Hourai forest phoenix person
I think part of that was shmup and Japanese though
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The knifestream attack gets the bowl in Practice.
ALL MY HARD WORK WHY
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I guess I'll just sum up what I think about the game.
What I like:
-Going to the POC for resource harvesting is fun. It reminds me of the UFO system a bit in that you have to work actively to accumulate resources.
-Nice characters.
-Mostly fun stage sections and bosses.
-Overall great music (Not a big fan of the stage 4 songs, but everything else seems quite good).
Meh:
-5th boss's gimmick is interesting but annoying to play.
-So-so final boss. Doesn't hold a candle compared to other bosses such as Byakuren or Kanako, or actually any last boss besides Miko, whose fight I'm not much of a fan of either.
-Also, the 6th's boss's attack where your character's hitbox grows huge is just kind of...silly and annoying, I guess?
-Bullet patterns somewhat not as nice looking compared to that of earlier games.
DDC seems like a pretty solid entry in the series overall. I like it significantly more than Ten Desires, at least.
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Oh on the contrary, they are. Who else uses Zombie Fairies besides Rin? No one. Who fully abuses curvy as an attack rather than conjunction to the bullets besides Shou? No one. (Well maybe Nazrin, but regardless)
Zombie fairies are on the borderline and I'd call them a gimmick (the gimmick being that they come back to life on their own unlike familiars), but Shou's lasers are just a bullet type. Heck, Byakuren uses them in the same game. Are you going to say knives are Sakuya's gimmick in EoSD?
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If I'm not mistaken, a "gimmick" is a gameplay aspect one dislikes. Otherwise, it's a "feature".
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- Fixed Lunatic Stage 4 crash
- Fixed invisible bullets from Stage 3 boss
- Stage 5 boss special effect can no longer be negated by alt-tabbing
- Fixed inconsistency from main game in some Spell Practice cards
- Other fixes
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TH14 Epilogue
(http://i.imgur.com/mouoS9R.png)
^
for the lulz and not canon.
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TH14 Epilogue
(http://i.imgur.com/mouoS9R.png)
I feel stupid for asking, but is this an actual shot of an ending? If so, you need to remove this image (or at least just link to it).
Again, if this is a fake, my apologies.
Unless ZUN is using stock vector art of spotlights and in-game portraits for endings now, yes, I am an idiot.
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It's a fake. You can reserve search the image to find the same background.
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It's a fake. You can reserve search the image to find the same background.
Yep, just did that, heh.
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Oh on the contrary, they are. Who else uses Zombie Fairies besides Rin? No one. Who fully abuses curvy as an attack rather than conjunction to the bullets besides Shou? No one. (Well maybe Nazrin, but regardless)
Uh, no. They're knives.
At first point: Fine. Merlin Primsriver. There's a reason no-one uses Sakuya in PCB. Her Curvy lasers are not even clear due to the background! SA is kinda an oddball in the whole religion arc anyway, since it has nothing to do with religion directly. [Also I've never got past Satori :V]
At second point: Compare them to her unfocused or main shot knives, or even the knives in her B-type shot. They are clearly not knives, the blade is 2~3 times longer than the knives, and the overall shape resembles Yumeko's swords. Not sure what the translation of the shot type itself is. Also, like in EoSD, and the fighting games, her 'knives' in her other shottypes are green, red and blue. These are not.
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@Vectorfish
Your point of view about doing TA things without TA is correct.
Opinions about DDC:
*Amazing music. Personal favourites so far: Stage4, Stage6, Stage2, StageEX, Stage3, Stage5.
*Well tweaked patterns(mostly - stage 2 standing bulletlines are boring for example) and stages. Visually some of the patterns are not as appealing as they could be with some extra tweaking. Favourite pattern: Extra nospell with triangles made out of petal shaped bullets and random bulletchunks.
*I like the scoring and life/bomb system for its simplicity.
*The difference for character shot and bomb system can really be felt for most of them. Also i think MarisaB bomb behaviour is deliberate.
The screen flipping and rotation is evil and i wouldn't dare to put something like that in a game. Whats even more evil is that during one of the screenflips bullets come from behind. I'm sure the players will get used to it and if not, then cheat like i do :V
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Almost everything you see in TAS videos is technically possible to be reproduced by a mere human without any external tools. ... If you think about it, slowing down, loading, memory reading (not writing) - all of them make the game easier but they don't change the game.
I'm sorry, but using software or other external tools does, factually, change the game. The reason why people are taking exception with "TAS isn't cheating" is because of this. If you're using something that slows the framerate, you have in fact changed the game. Just because a better player could "technically" dodge what a TAS player is dodging doesn't make it less so.
If an athlete runs a four-minute mile because he has been using anabolic steroids and swallowed half a bottle of Ripped Fuel before the run, they have cheated. The fact that other athletes can run a four-minute mile without "assistance" doesn't make this less so.
EDIT: Not saying this to call you out, specifically, by the way. I'm more interested in being sure that other folks don't go ahead and do TAS runs, believing it's not really cheating, and then experience the inevitable disappointment of trying to offer their replays in a competition here.
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Well, the main point of what I tried to say from the very beginning is that using game flaws falls into the same cheating category as doing TAS, TAS just uses those flaws more optimally. Anything what wasn't intended to be used is cheating (though sometimes it's difficult to say if some trick was intentionally implemented or not). Still, it really depends on the person what should be considered as cheating and what is not.
Speaking of the patch, I'm a little bit disappointed that ZUN fixed alt-tab trick so soon and not some time later. I wanted to see how much people would be tempted to use it in their speedruns so the replays would surely desynchronize at her spellcards after this fix. Now such a chance is lost :)
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visible hitbox in EoSD or "true bullet hitbox" patches
an in game feature?
Modifying the game to ease playing is forbidden.
There's no merit in finishing the game abusing this bug, at least in my opinion.
Why would someone else care of your opinion? People play these games mainly for themselves. How is bombing the attacks more of a merit, though?
Well, the main point of what I tried to say from the very beginning is that using game flaws falls into the same cheating category as doing TAS
But it does not. One of them uses outside software or modified game data to ease playing, other plays the game unmodified. TAS just uses those flaws more optimally.
The main thing about TAS in Touhou have always been slowdown and savestates, neither of which are "flaws" within the games. Anything what wasn't intended to be used is cheating
Call Royalflare, we're taking every WR that uses a safespot off. (UFO, PCB, IN, SA, EoSD, TD)
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But it does not. One of them uses outside software or modified game data to ease playing, other plays the game unmodified.
I feel that the initial question changes a little the more it is discussed (maybe not intentionally but still). It depends on what kind of flaws we're talking. Safespots are fine, reversing monitor or keys, using alt-tab, modifying the game - is not. I'll state it more specifically a little bit below.
The main thing about TAS in Touhou have always been slowdown and savestates, neither of which are "flaws" within the games.
I was talking TAS in general, not specifically about touhou. Usually, TAS is all about using game flaws in speedruns. Or maybe not, I didn't dig much in this field to state anything boldly. Sorry if I'm wrong about some details in TASing.
Call Royalflare, we're taking every WR that uses a safespot off. (UFO, PCB, IN, SA, EoSD, TD)
Ok, let me rephrase my opinion about cheating in touhou. Anything that ZUN would definitely patch if he finds it, it isn't too late to fix and is possible to prevent is cheating (such as alt-tabing, mАlice laser, pausing and other stuff). I'm pretty much sure that a lot of safespots can be considered as intended to some extent. I don't know much safespots for spellcards but I think those which I know were mostly left intentionally. Maybe some of those which I don't know are really "impudent". If you don't mind, name some safespots. Not because I'm trying to pick a fight, I'm just interested to take a look :)
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Sorry if I'm wrong about some details in TASing.
That seems to be where this whole misunderstanding is coming from. "TAS" is not exploiting a game flaw; it's using external tools to alter the game in some way that gives the player an advantage. I mean the TA part of TAS means "tool assisted".
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It's just that most of TASes I saw were using game flaws very intensively and TA were used just because most of those flaws are difficult to reproduce using common human skills in a long run. So I started to assume that true TAS is just interesting speedrun using game bugs. Though if I follow just its raw definition - Tool Assisted Speedrun - it's really just a speedrun using helpful tools (which still don't break game mechanis), no matter if they use game flaws or not.
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Thanks for the patch, ZUN, Shinyoumaru's knife SC is a completely different thing when you can damage her. A few amusing things I found out about it are how ReimuA can actually capture the card in a good enough time, as long as you get her gohei to hit Shinmyou's head (just go to the top of the screen, focus there, then move back down while focused before she starts shooting); and how SakuyaA's focus attack completely changes the pattern of the blue knives, making it a lot slower and full of gaps (which kind of sucks if you're used to the normal pattern).
Or maybe I'm just being too late to notice this, as usual
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Modifying the game to ease playing is forbidden.
Why would someone else care of your opinion? People play these games mainly for themselves. How is bombing the attacks more of a merit, though?
Who even is the one who decides what is forbidden and what isn't? lol, if I play "for myself" I can do anything I want, and if people played only for themselves they wouldn't care about others using cheats. I certainly get mixed feelings when people brag about an achievement having abused such a bug. It is just as game breaking as using an outside alteration, period, the only difference is that one seems to be accepted by the majority because it already exists in game, which doesn't make much sense but whatever. I know that it won't change the fact that bugs will still be accepted in competitions and other things won't, I'm just stating my opinion on why I think bugs and patches and outside exploits are no different in essence. But there's no point in talking about anything ever if everyone is just going to say "I don't care about your opinion". Opinions almost never convince other people, so saying that you don't care is unnecessary and even rude sometimes.
About the merit thing, I mean merely 1ccing a game legitly, which is most people's main objective. The games were designed with lots of bombing in mind, not perfecting everything, or else they wouldn't give you tons of lives and bombs. If things were so simple to everyone as to "bomb everything" there wouldn't be tons of people struggling to 1cc. Sometimes even bombing is not an easy thing to do, as you become afraid to spend resources unnecessarily and end up dying with bombs, or you panic bomb too much and don't have bombs when you really need them.
A super-power bug obviously makes the game so much easier that you don't need to dodge and bomb as much, and everybody knows it's unintended and broken. So yes, I believe there's more merit in bombing everything legitly than abusing an overpowered bug, as bombs are limited (even in MoF). Unfortunately it's accepted by the community as something legit, and even if it was forbidden it would be impossible to avoid it completely unless Marisa B was banned as a whole.
Meh, I cut about 2/3 of my original post as it was too extensive and I don't feel like this discussion is healthy to get into too many useless details.
Regarding safespots specifically, they are legit to me, because that's just the way the patterns were made and how the bullets move; some safespots may even have been intended, and lots of them aren't that useful or easy to use anyway. It would only be an exploit if you could somehow stay in a specific spot and touch bullets without dying . It's different from like skipping bosses in SA, that's definitely a bug and totally cheating.
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It is just as game breaking as using an outside alteration, period, the only difference is that one seems to be accepted by the majority because it already exists in game, which doesn't make much sense but whatever. I know that it won't change the fact that bugs will still be accepted in competitions and other things won't, I'm just stating my opinion on why I think bugs and patches and outside exploits are no different in essence. But there's no point in talking about anything ever if everyone is just going to say "I don't care about your opinion". Opinions almost never convince other people, so saying that you don't care is unnecessary and even rude sometimes.
OK, I see this come up a lot, so let's clear the air here.
An "opinion" is an expression of how you feel about a quality. Like, "In my opinion strawberries are delicious" is an opinion; "In my opinion strawberries are blue" is not. You can't say, "In my opinion the world is flat" when it demonstrably isn't, but, "in my opinion, the world shouldn't be round" is fine.
So when you say "in my opinion, using external tools is no different than exploiting game bugs", people are quite right to point out the difference between the two (e.g. the former is taking advantage of things the game creator left in and hasn't or won't fix, while the latter is the player deliberately altering the mechanics of the game) and it's not really a matter of opinion.
Apart from that, if you're playing for yourself, sure, by all means use external tools and cheat engines to your heart's content. Just don't be surprised if you try to submit that replay to a contest here and are told it doesn't count.
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I know what an opinion is, what I don't know is why people think it's okay to cheat via a bug and not external exploits. Yes they are different, but the result is the same, a decrease in difficulty. It's like saying that using the konami code cheats is fine, but gameshark ones is not. "The external exploits alter the game and the bugs do not" doesn't really answer this question. Thinking that bugs aren't cheats because they don't alter the game doesn't make any sense either.
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Sakuya A's delayed shots are not knives. They're SWORDS. I just noticed that, having not played the demo. [I got B and A mixed up a second ago :V]
Uh, no. They're knives.
The shot type screen and all the dialogue for SakuyaA say her "bewitched" weapon is a sword. (although that may depend on who translated it, I don't know how close the japanese for knife and sword is)
also yeah they're way longer then the rest of what she's shooting
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I know what an opinion is, what I don't know is why people think it's okay to cheat via a bug and not external exploits. Yes they are different, but the result is the same, a decrease in difficulty. It's like saying that using the konami code cheats is fine, but gameshark ones is not. "The external exploits alter the game and the bugs do not" doesn't really answer this question. Thinking that bugs aren't cheats because they don't alter the game doesn't make any sense either.
I also go with the "they don't alter the game", and usually take them as legit, depending on their level. Granted, I've been part of glitch exploring communities for a few years before getting into Touhou, so I'm quite fond to them. But since everything has a limit, if I think they break the game too much (like extended immortality, skipping a huge part of the game, etc, or in our case, MarisaB in serious runs), I don't use them. But silly things like safespots (that aren't actually a glitch), skipping a midboss, unflipping a spellcards, getting extra damage, etc is okay.
Though outside of tournaments of similar things that sometimes restrict them, it's subjective whether they're considered cheating or not, so whoever consider them as cheating don't use them on their own, while other people do at their will. So there's not really a point to argue about this since it won't get anywhere.
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Well, regardless of people's opinions on the matter, I think ZUN removing the alt+enter bug settled his opinion on the matter nicely. :D
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Well, regardless of people's opinions on the matter, I think ZUN removing the alt+enter bug settled his opinion on the matter nicely. :D
I'm okay with that since he also fixed the Benben crash thing. :V
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Drunk Marisa remains firmly in the game though, as far as we know. Presumably cementing ZUN's opinion on her drinking habit. :D
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Drunk Marisa remains firmly in the game though, as far as we know. Presumably cementing ZUN's opinion on her drinking habit. :D
I hope it at least doesn't desynch replays occasionally anymore... anyways, this patch is great and I'm so happy he took the time to fix so many issues! Best patch ever :DDDD
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Well, regardless of people's opinions on the matter, I think ZUN removing the alt+enter bug settled his opinion on the matter nicely. :D
I was imagining someone tweeting him about that bug, or him seeing it mentioned on 2ch - he turns to the other monitor, alters a couple lines of code, and smiles as he hits Ctrl + S.
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I was imagining someone tweeting him about that bug, or him seeing it mentioned on 2ch - he turns to the other monitor, alters a couple lines of code, and smiles as he hits Ctrl + S.
It's probably never as easy as that, but it would be fun to imagine :V
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I wonder if his fix was just to re-flip the control upon alt-tab shenanigans. If that's the case then there might be other exploits and there'd have to be a fix for each separate case.
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I was imagining someone tweeting him about that bug, or him seeing it mentioned on 2ch - he turns to the other monitor, alters a couple lines of code, and smiles as he hits Ctrl + S.
According to twitter, he disappeared into alcohol for two days after Comiket. Then he came back online and saw the bug reports tweeted at him.
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According to twitter, he disappeared into alcohol for two days after Comiket. Then he came back online and saw the bug reports tweeted at him.
That's our ZUN XD
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According to twitter, he disappeared into alcohol for two days after Comiket. Then he came back online and saw the bug reports tweeted at him.
Yup, he got drunk because he was home. Good old ZUN. :D
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You know how Seija's song sounds the same backwards?
ZUN: I'm feeling extra lazy, lets just take this, and repeat it, but going backwards. Now to tweak some parts to make it sound less lazy. Done.
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You know how Seija's song sounds the same backwards?
ZUN: I'm feeling extra lazy, lets just take this, and repeat it, but going backwards. Now to tweak some parts to make it sound less lazy. Done.
I wouldn't say it's exactly the same. It is very similar sounding. Reminds me of Koishi's song, but Koishi's does it better.
Here it is in case anyone was wondering. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEa3JiYselk)
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ZUN: I'm feeling extra lazy, lets just take this, and repeat it, but going backwards. Now to tweak some parts to make it sound less lazy. Done.
I... have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say with this.
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Well, he did say he made it in the image of a lazy youkai...
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The shot type screen and all the dialogue for SakuyaA say her "bewitched" weapon is a sword. (although that may depend on who translated it, I don't know how close the japanese for knife and sword is)
also yeah they're way longer then the rest of what she's shooting
Her weapons are described as 剣 (tsurugi) which pretty clearly means "sword". Specifically 妖剣 (youken), where it's the same "you" as in "youkai". What she normally throws is described as ナイフ (knife). So yeah, they're swords.
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Seems like Yumeko now has nothing over Sakuya anymore :V
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I wouldn't say it's exactly the same. It is very similar sounding. Reminds me of Koishi's song, but Koishi's does it better.
Here it is in case anyone was wondering. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEa3JiYselk)
I fully expect reversing her theme to become a fad in musical arranges, much like the *pop* in UFO Stage 4.
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According to twitter, he disappeared into alcohol for two days after Comiket. Then he came back online and saw the bug reports tweeted at him.
See? Fans helping the creator. The heavily-drinking creator.
The system works!
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See? Fans helping the creator. The heavily-drinking creator.
The system works!
The liver, not so much.
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I'm sure the fandom will pool their monies together
if when the time comes for a transplant.
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I just realised something.
If Seija is happy when you're sad, sad when you are happy and generally feels the opposite of you, that means it's fair to say she's in pleasure when you're in pain, and is therefor canonically a sadist.
Move over Yuuka.
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Does she canonically feel the opposite of you? That's neat.
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Well her profile says she 'thinks the opposite of what others think, likes what others hate, and hates herself when she makes others happy'.
The opposite should hold true, she is happy when she makes others sad, and, well, most people hate... wait.
If she likes what others hate, couldn't make make her a Masochist too 0_o
OK thinking about what Seija likes and dislikes just makes your head hurt.
Ultimately, of course, Seija is a completely screwed up character that is probobly literally impossible to get along with. Especially since she likes being shunned [Because most others hate it]
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I'm just really satisfied by the endless fanfic possibilities this provides.
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Well her profile says she 'thinks the opposite of what others think, likes what others hate, and hates herself when she makes others happy'.
Uh oh, edgy Redditor alert!
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Oh god now I have a mental image of Kaguya and Seija having a Reddit flame war.
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Seija is the most dsfunctional character ever. Parsee doesn't hold a candle to her. I'm really curious on how people will handle her in fics.
If she likes what others hate, couldn't make make her a Masochist too 0_o
Would explain why she has an ahegao after you beat her >.>
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Stage4 normal mode pattern safespot (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=29904) and hard/lunatic survival strategy demonstrated in lunatic mode (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=29905). Also patterns with notes and lazers in stage4 (and extra?) can be misdirected. I don't think on higher difficulties those are even meant to be dodged.
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Seija is the most dsfunctional character ever. Parsee doesn't hold a candle to her. I'm really curious on how people will handle her in fics.
Koishi is probably still more dysfunctional and would likely drive Seija completely nuts because she's pretty much impossible to oppose.
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Koishi is probably still more dysfunctional and would likely drive Seija completely nuts because she's pretty much impossible to oppose.
Koishi isn't that dysfunctional. She's just pure Id, going around doing whatever whims she has at the moment because she has no conscious mind to judge if she should do it or not.
...well ok that is dysfunctinal, but at least it's dependent only on herself; Seija has to oppose other people all the time to function. Like you said, just imagine how she'd react to Koishi.
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Well her profile says she 'thinks the opposite of what others think, likes what others hate, and hates herself when she makes others happy'.
Wait minute so, that means if someone wants to put her in a RPG game then... shit is going to get real. :V
@Limian: That is so true...
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Probably only her signature attacks / abilities will be wonky.
Unless you want to pull a reversed Imposter Ditto (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Imposter_(Ability)).
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Zun should have reversed Saija's theme when she flips the screen. Like the Trance music in TD. Would've made an interesting live boss theme.
Also,
The fourth stage boss is different depending on what you choose in player selection, like 6-8.
The fifth boss has a gimmick that makes a what should be a second stage boss a fifth stage boss.
Anyone feel like the pattern is coming back?
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So, Seija is basically:
The new closest thing we have to an 'evil' character. In fact, she probobly is evil.
Completely impossible to get along with.
Completely plausible that she's a Sadomasochist. [Loves causing pain and receiving it]
Loves to make people sad, and is sad when they are happy, combined with her talkative nature, probobly making her a Yukari/Yuyuko level troll too.
She wins 'Touhou I would not like to be around' award.
She also probobly wins 'Hardest Touhou to do right' award. Inb4 Seija Quest
Also, on the topic of Seija, I'm gonna nominate Sukuna for Team ⑨ levels of stupid considering she trusted someone who admitted she is of a species that are basically as compulsive liars as Marisa. Not to mention without her mallet she *is* pretty weak, and she's certainly childish.
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Seija isn't evil per se. She's just a contrarian. That can mean some evil doings, maybe, but not for the sake of doing evil; if evil is done, it's just a consequence of her need to contradict everyone. She enjoys taking the opposite position, being edgy and having unpopular opinions.
Please no one give her an account here. I hate to think what she'd do to TARC.
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Zun should have reversed Saija's theme when she flips the screen. Like the Trance music in TD. Would've made an interesting live boss theme.
The trance music isn't reversed. It's a low quality(purposely) remix, but yeah that would've been cool.
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I know the Trance music isn't reversed. I meant that the music changes depending on events. (Dying, flipping, etc.)
I can't stop listening to the music. Especially the stage 6 theme which I actually prefer over the boss theme.
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I can't stop listening to the music. Especially the stage 6 theme which I actually prefer over the boss theme.
Agree. 'Specially the very first bit. Should have kept it like that all the way.
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Aside from Willows, I'm not too keen on the Stage 1~3 music.
Stage 4~6 and EX, on the other hand... I seriously think that is the best Stage 4 theme music ever, I think Magical Storm gives Gensokyo the Gods Loved a run for best stage theme full stop. It fits the atmosphere of the stage so well it's insane. Also love the Stage 4 boss theme.
Also already seen some lovely fanart of the Sisters. Not much of good quality of the others yet.
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I love all the music in this game.
Ah, who am I kidding? I pretty much love everything about this game. I have to confess, I haven't enjoyed a Touhou shooter since GFW, and before that, MoF. I was beginning to wonder if I was destined to keep making daily sacrificial offerings for a new photog game when the DDC demo came out. And in playing the full game, yeah. I'm pretty sold. It might even have a place in my Top 3.
Anyway, sorry, what were we talking about? Oh right, the music. I've found myself whistling Seija's theme a lot. It's pretty rockin'.
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I like Sukuna's theme the best, especially because of the rock theme. <3
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I always think about Raiko's theme. O_o (I just can't stop thinking about it!) That also goes for Seija's theme.
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On the topic of 'Evil Seija', did some more thinking.
She thinks the opposite of what others think, therefor, what is usually seen as good, is evil to her, and vice versa.
Her ethics and morals would be backwards. Which kind of screams 'evil'.
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I'm wondering, is Seija opposite just for the sake of being opposite or does she actually have inverted beliefs? What I mean is, if she were talking to Marisa she'd say stealing is bad but if she were talking to Byakuren stealing is good. Is that the case, or is stealinggood to her in general because it's considered bad in general?
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Or she does this as a personal quirk and she's perfectly sane?
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Or she does this as a personal quirk and she's perfectly sane?
I think personal quirk would be better.
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Yeah, would be my preferred interpretation as well. Mischievous Seija sounds lovely.
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Her ethics and morals would be backwards. Which kind of screams 'evil'.
Ah, but that's only true if you assume everyone around her is good. Are most people totally good? No, I think most people are a blend of good and evil, in varying proportions. So if she were the "opposite" of the people around her, ethically, we don't really have a strong indication where that puts her, morally speaking.
Ironically, the closer she gets to good and righteous people, the meaner she probably gets. Likewise, get her near some straight-up evil characters, and she'll veer towards good.
She's a contrarian; not a villain. But she raises a lot of interesting questions about morality in Gensokyo.
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Damn it ZUN thanks for making a complicated character for us to try and play as. :V
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Or she does this as a personal quirk and she's perfectly sane?
She is sane. For a amanojaku.
Remember, she's not human. She didn't choose to be contrarian, she simply is contrarian, like everyone else that belong to her species. It's their nature, like yamabikos echoing people.
How far this contrarian thing goes, though, it's up to debate. I'd say that she doesn't really have any personal values. That way she can just claim to support the opposite of whatever morals other people are embracing at the time.
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How does all this mesh with DDC's plot?
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How does all this mesh with DDC's plot?
What do you mean, the discussions on her personality, or how her personality meshes into the plot? In case it's the later...
Youkai values dictate that power is good, and that those with power control the weak. Seija, being an amanojaku, disagrees, and planned to inverse this.
Going by her dialogue, though, it seems that she wanted the weak to rule for reasons above simply being a contrarian. The way she talks, it seems she was pretty badly bullied by stronger youkai, and has a personal beef with those with power.
Yukari was probably laughing her ass off during the whole incident :V
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Going by her dialogue, though, it seems that she wanted the weak to rule for reasons above simply being a contrarian. The way she talks, it seems she was pretty badly bullied by stronger youkai, and has a personal beef with those with power.
Yeah, this is what I like about her. The whole revolutionary aspect of it, showing strong leanings towards anarcho-socialism. Being contrary to the status quo is the Easy Mode of revolutions. Most rebellious youth start out this way - just doing the opposite of what's expected, or liking what others don't, for the sake of being a rebel.
What can I say? I like her. Even if I can totally see her yelling, "No! Screw you, Mom, I hate The Olive Garden! I hate this house! And I hate YOU!" before stomping off to her room, slamming the door, and playing "Master of Puppets" at full volume.
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Except her profile would indicate she likes being bullied... she likes what others hate.
... You know what, the best question about Seija is: How drunk was ZUN when he made Seija?
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I understand that SakuyaB is the go-to option for score because of her focused shot creating green items and her having nothing else going for her? :V
Also, damn, does Sukuna's backstory seems to be mistranslated everywhere. The patch center translates kobito as dwarf, ignoring the connotations the word brings up for the western audience (beards and all), instead of translating it as a midget, which seems more neutral. On the other hand, touhou wiki leaves it untranslated, which is even worse and would only be justified if kobito were a separate eastern race (in the same vein you can't substitute oni for ogre), and not what seems to be a japanese word for little people (which is why dwarf seems viable to begin with). Made even worse by there being a reference to an actual native japanese legend in her backstory, the Issun-boushi.
And the Uchide no kozuchi, which, according to the wikipedia translated as "Small Magic Hammer" or "Miracle Mallet", which is handled correctly on the wiki as the latter, but the patch center literally mistranslates it as Uchide's Mallet, implying that Uchide is a person :derp:. So much for the western-friendly backstory.
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You know what, the best question about Seija is: How drunk was ZUN when he made Seija?
I think it's important not to take the Opposite Day Forever thing too literally. It's relevant as it pertains to her contrarianism, and her desire to rebel and overthrow. That's what she's there for (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanojaku). But try applying that contrarianism to everything and you fall into a logic trap. On the other hand, logic traps cover Gensokyo like potholes on a New Jersey highway.
Also, damn, does Sukuna's backstory seems to be mistranslated everywhere. The patch center translates kobito as dwarf, ignoring the connotations the word brings up for the western audience (beards and all), instead of translating it as a midget, which seems more neutral. On the other hand, touhou wiki leaves it untranslated, which is even worse and would only be justified if kobito were a separate eastern race (in the same vein you can't substitute oni for ogre), and not what seems to be a japanese word for little people (which is why dwarf seems viable to begin with). Made even worse by there being a reference to an actual native japanese legend in her backstory, the Issun-boushi.
And the Uchide no kozuchi, which, according to the wikipedia translated as "Small Magic Hammer" or "Miracle Mallet", which is handled correctly on the wiki as the latter, but the patch center literally mistranslates it as Uchide's Mallet, implying that Uchide is a person :derp:. So much for the western-friendly backstory.
Wow, what a clusterfuck. Can't say I'm entirely surprised. But what's wrong with just using kobito? Are these patch guys from Disney or something?
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Leaving kobito as is implies that they are somehow a specific japanese brand of midgets, which I tried to look for with no avail. The kanji seem to be spelling out "little person" and google translate outright translates it as dwarf. If that *is* the case, then that's unprofessional of them to leave the term untranslated, as that will only add to confusion and define a new english term that's not correct or used anywhere else at all, plus will imply that our knowledge of midgets is meaningless here because they're somehow different. Unless I'm mistaken of course, as I don't really know japanese :derp:.
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But as was pointed out, we don't go calling the oni "ogres". Some things can be left in the original Japanese to actually avoid confusion.
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God damn this game's songs've been stuck in my head for so long. On a sidenote, does anyone think that Yatsuhashi's going to be very overshadowed by Benben? I think that even her design is a bit bland when compared to her older sister's.
And regarding Seija being evil, it is clearly because of the name. Stay tuned for touhou 15 where the ex boss, Seiya, will try stealing every hat in gensokyo. And then in th16 Seika, the final boss, will drain the heat of every hotspring to power her new robot.
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She's a contrarian; not a villain. But she raises a lot of interesting questions about morality in Gensokyo.
Her name means "Right and Wrong" so yes, she's supposed to raise questions about morality.Leaving kobito as is implies that they are somehow a specific japanese brand of midgets, which I tried to look for with no avail. The kanji seem to be spelling out "little person" and google translate outright translates it as dwarf. If that *is* the case, then that's unprofessional of them to leave the term untranslated, as that will only add to confusion and define a new term that's not correct or used anywhere else at all, plus will imply that our knowledge of midgets is meaningless here because they're somehow different. Unless I'm mistaken of course, as I don't really know japanese :derp:.
It's left untranslated not because anyone actually likes "kobito" but because no one can agree on a proper translation. This is the rough draft version before we decide on something better. To prevent edit wars, basically.
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Since I reverted from the XP patch and applied the new one, stage 4 Lunatic started working but I've been getting seemingly-random (not reproducible at specific junctures) crashes while running main-game Lunatic, often during the stage transitions. The same error message occurs that used to hit during stage 4's second boss spellcard. Is there a new XP patch that can be applied after the new ZUN patch to fix this, or am I out of luck?
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This is the rough draft version before we decide on something better. To prevent edit wars, basically.
We? If you're working on this, too, can I ask - have you tested this in WINE? Because after following the instructions here (http://thpatch.net/wiki/Touhou_Community_Reliant_Automatic_Patcher), and noting that neither the console dialogue nor the log indicated any problems, it seems that the only changes made are to character dialogue ... which appear to be little rectangular boxes.
If all that's been patched so far is dialogue, alright, I guess stuff like song titles and the little box of text that appears on character select can wait, but why might I be seeing boxes instead of letters?
It doesn't seem as though anyone at Gensokyo.org is working on a simple, traditional hard patch, so I thought I'd give this a try. I really hope you guys can somehow streamline this thing a bit. My experience with patching has been a) download .exe b) click .exe and c) play translated game. I realize that with this auto-updating thing you want to do there might be some more moving parts involved, but a lot about this seems like it could stand to be trimmed. A noble aim all the same, I guess.
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@Critz
The Patch Center was made to operate as it is to address the "Translation Issues" that you are pointing out.
It's a Wiki, feel free to contribute -- "Change stuff, so it doesn't irk you anymore or something".
Personally, I don't mind the current translation.
BTW : I'll just leave this here...
小人 【こびと】 (n) (1) child, small person, (n) (2) dwarf <-----
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We? If you're working on this, too, can I ask - have you tested this in WINE? Because after following the instructions here (http://thpatch.net/wiki/Touhou_Community_Reliant_Automatic_Patcher), and noting that neither the console dialogue nor the log indicated any problems, it seems that the only changes made are to character dialogue ... which appear to be little rectangular boxes.
I was talking about the touhouwiki, not the patch. I was speaking as someone who just edits the wiki sometimes, not as anyone with authority. The patch uses dwarf, which I hate. I'm not connected to it at all, sorry.
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Accidentally, what's wrong with "midget"?
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Accidentally, what's wrong with "midget"?
What's good about it?
Here's the discussion if you care to add to it. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Shinmyoumaru_Sukuna#Her_Species)
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God damn this game's songs've been stuck in my head for so long. On a sidenote, does anyone think that Yatsuhashi's going to be very overshadowed by Benben? I think that even her design is a bit bland when compared to her older sister's.
And regarding Seija being evil, it is clearly because of the name. Stay tuned for touhou 15 where the ex boss, Seiya, will try stealing every hat in gensokyo. And then in th16 Seika, the final boss, will drain the heat of every hotspring to power her new robot.
At Benben/Yatsuhasi: They're twins unless I'm mistaken, they came to life at the same time. However, I'm actually not too impressed at the design of either. Overall Benben looks more interesting, with Yatsu literally looking like a perfectly ordinary girl, if not for the strings on her skirt. [On the other Hand Benben at least looks intresting, but holds her instrument, instead of BEING in instrument like Yatu... who's design is bland bland bland.]
Great themes, fun damaku... boring designs.
And clearly the next Touhou fighting game will be all the Seiga-Seija characters plotting something together. Forget Moriya Shrine Conspiracies, it's the 'Sei' conspiracy!
@ Tengu: Well, all we have to go by on Seija's character is her profile and in-game. Anything else has to be extrapolated from that, or made up, so to be able to characterize her right, you have to think about it. And it's full of HNNGK. Still, it's clear she is NOT someone you can get along with.
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They aren't twins; they're different musical instruments, afte all. They just consider themselves sisters because they turned into tsukumogami at the same time. They have no relation other than that.
I do think that, of all DDC's characters, these two have the least interesting desings, but I still liked them, specially the way their instruments are depicted.
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I was talking about the touhouwiki, not the patch. I was speaking as someone who just edits the wiki sometimes, not as anyone with authority. The patch uses dwarf, which I hate. I'm not connected to it at all, sorry.
Dang. I knew you were on the wiki, which made me think you'd be a good fit for this patch.
Welp, back to playing it in Japanese. Which, I might add, is no big deal so long as we have good translators on the wiki!
Also, yeah "dwarf" sucks, "midget" is worse. Good luck.
They aren't twins; they're different musical instruments, afte all. They just consider themselves sisters because they turned into tsukumogami at the same time. They have no relation other than that.
I do think that, of all DDC's characters, these two have the least interesting desings, but I still liked them, specially the way their instruments are depicted.
My daughter really loves Kagerou most of all it seems, though the twins come in a close second. I think they're alright. They look like hippies.
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I'd better not be seeing people trash talking Reclining-san in this thread.
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About the last boss, I like inchling. Lilipution is ok, and so is dwarf. I am against midget. The spell name can stay the same though.
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We? If you're working on this, too, can I ask - have you tested this in WINE? Because after following the instructions here (http://thpatch.net/wiki/Touhou_Community_Reliant_Automatic_Patcher), and noting that neither the console dialogue nor the log indicated any problems, it seems that the only changes made are to character dialogue ... which appear to be little rectangular boxes.
After your post I decided to check how it works under Wine and... it works fine. Dialogs, spellcards, GUI, menu, music titles - all of them work fine. I wonder what was wrong in your case.
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After your post I decided to check how it works under Wine and... it works fine. Dialogs, spellcards, GUI, menu, music titles - all of them work fine. I wonder what was wrong in your case.
The only thing that occurs to me is that I haven't installed my Touhous to the virtual C:\ drive. All my game directories are in their own directory, separate from the /.wine directory. Kind of sucks for those of us who partition our drives, if that's the case.
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The only thing that occurs to me is that I haven't installed my Touhous to the virtual C:\ drive. All my game directories are in their own directory, separate from the /.wine directory. Kind of sucks for those of us who partition our drives, if that's the case.
The same. DDC isn't stored at C:\ but in one of my "home" directories (so it's Z:\).
The only issue I found is music room which is full of rectangles (so I guess it wasn't translated yet).
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Aside from Willows, I'm not too keen on the Stage 1~3 music.
Stage 4~6 and EX, on the other hand... I seriously think that is the best Stage 4 theme music ever, I think Magical Storm gives Gensokyo the Gods Loved a run for best stage theme full stop. It fits the atmosphere of the stage so well it's insane. Also love the Stage 4 boss theme.
Also already seen some lovely fanart of the Sisters. Not much of good quality of the others yet.
I feel the opposite (ooooooh, topical). Absolutely loving stage 1-3 music, especially the stage 2 stage theme. Everything after that hasn't come around for me yet.
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Stage 4 theme has really grown on me. Right now, it's my favorite theme of DDC, with Shinmyoumaru's theme as close second place. Extra stage theme is awesome, too.
It's like with any other touhou game: The more you listen to the themes, the more you like them. At least, that's the case for me. ;)
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It's like with any other touhou game: The more you listen to the themes, the more you like them. At least, that's the case for me. ;)
I can say for certain that my tastes in different songs do change over time. But my favorite songs from the series are the ones that weave a patchwork landscape together across stages. 5 and 6 of PCB, and 4 through Ex of IN come to mind. In DDC, for me it's 4 through 6. They are seamless, and build on a compositional theme to a perfect conclusion.
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Of the first 3 stages, I found Willow and Bamboo Forest the most catchy. Fish's theme has a pretty good chorus in exchange for the horrendous intro. Stage 1 and 2 are just so-so. Not really digging the wolf's theme also; sounds too incomplete and "video game". Everything from 4 to the credits theme is fantastic. Mildly disappointed at the S6 theme though; it isn't bad, but it could've been different.
Extra stage sounds nice (especially the midboss part), but it's still a serious step (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX5kXNo-O8U) down (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUDqOIBY9FA). Pristine Beat could've been a great song if it didn't have the extremely wonky melody around the middle.
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I was talking about the touhouwiki, not the patch. I was speaking as someone who just edits the wiki sometimes, not as anyone with authority. The patch uses dwarf, which I hate. I'm not connected to it at all, sorry.
Huh?
I've been playing using this patch and it uses Kobito everywhere.
Also, Tengukami; have you been using the shortcut generated by the patching software, or the direct .exe? It only runs the changes with the shortcut it gives you, which in my experience is generated in wherever your thcrap.exe stuff is.
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I've been playing using this patch and it uses Kobito everywhere.
Well, it is a wiki-based patch. Change is to be expected. I last played it several days ago.
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Also, Tengukami; have you been using the shortcut generated by the patching software, or the direct .exe? It only runs the changes with the shortcut it gives you, which in my experience is generated in wherever your thcrap.exe stuff is.
Yep, it's using the shortcut that gives me boxes instead of Japanese, and nothing else. It's all good, I'll wait for a hard patch. Or just use the wiki.
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I love every theme of this game except the Extra stage and boss's theme.
Stage 1: It makes me feel like you are back in a familiar lake or body of water.
Boss 1: The stage and boss theme makes me feel confused with the flat notes.
Stage 2: Sounds like good old music back from 6-8. Sounds nice.
Boss 2: Not very fond of the intro, but the chorus can get stuck in your head.
Stage 3: It complements the stage in that it is hectic and chaotic, a feel of rushing comes to me.
Boss 3: This is a chaotic song like the boss. It also has a mysterious feel to it. Not a calm one either.
Stage 4: This sounds like a storm is creating music. The fast notes throughout the song sound like the thunder, and the drums are the rain. Very atmospheric.
Boss 4: Very menacing and serious sounding. And the density of this boss fight fits the music. The happy solo piano part also shows that it's also to have fun.
Stage 5: I love the beginning with its eeriness. And than the xylophones come and I get reminded of Higan Tour. The echo also describes the atmosphere really well. The chorus is very cheerful yet menacing.
Boss 5: This song is so creepy. Reminds me of Heian Alien so much.
Stage 6: The anticipation of the final boss is strong. This piece rushes you and increases your anticipation. My favorite piece of this whole game and is high in my list of favorite songs.
Boss 6: I thought this piece was worse because the stage 6 theme set high expectations. I didn't really like the parts outside of the chorus because they rely on a guitar that doesn't really have a meledy. It's still a great song, just not as good as the stage theme.
Stage Ex: The storm is back to create a menacing piece. Everything is chaotic and fast. But it doesn't get stuck in your head easily.
Boss Ex: Very Taiko-like and is kind of eerie. The slight menacing and chaotic feel also adds to the song. The drums are the highlight of this song which fits perfectly. I prefer melody instead of beats though.
I really love the stage 6 theme. Might be my second favorite stage 6 theme, making The Young Descendantof Tepes third. Fires of Hokkai is still the best though.
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I love every theme of this game except the Extra stage and boss's theme.
lolwut? It's the best song in the game.
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A few spell cards reminds me of some video's by yuke. Especially one of Raiko's spell card (http://youtu.be/8uv-YELNC3s).
Anyway, at first the music sounded somewhat lame, but a few cathes my attention. Namely, stage 4, Benben/Yatsuhashi's, stage 5 and Raiko's themes. Final boss and extra stage theme still sound extremely boring though. Especially the extra stage theme, it sounds so Marine Benefit-ish. And I hate the music from that game.
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The only songs I don't like is the ending theme and the stage 4 boss. Personal favs are stage 4, Raiko's theme and Sukuna's theme.
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Raiko's theme is amazing. It's obviously the best song in the game, although it still needs more drums instead of pointing this out in music comments :ohdear:
Stage 3 theme is still awesome as ever, but stage 4 theme and stage 6 boss theme is cool too.
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Raiko's theme is amazing. It's obviously the best song in the game, although it still needs more drums instead of pointing this out in music comments :ohdear:
Stage 3 theme is still awesome as ever, but stage 4 theme and stage 6 boss theme is cool too.
I am waiting warmly for a Raiko's theme cover by a real Taiko band :)
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Extra stage sounds nice (especially the midboss part), but it's still a serious step (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX5kXNo-O8U) down (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUDqOIBY9FA).
This so much.
This game's music is amazing, especially stage 5 theme and its boss theme, Seija's theme is sooo catchy, but ever since the awesomeness that was Last Remote and UFO Romance, I've been looking forward to the extra stage theme the most in every game but extra stages themes post-GFW just wasn't nearly as good, not that I'm saying they're bad though.
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So who's more evil now? Seija or Seiga? :V
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Seiga has a spellcard that uses fetuses as danmaku
do you even have to ask
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I think Last Remote is the worst Extra tune and love TD's to death, and I'm not being hipster at all. This extra theme is really good and, if anything, Raiko's and 4 Boss's theme needs some serious work. Especially 4 Boss's. I had false hope that maybe Benben's theme would be different until v1.00b came out.
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This so much.
This game's music is amazing, especially stage 5 theme and its boss theme, Seija's theme is sooo catchy, but ever since the awesomeness that was Last Remote and UFO Romance, I've been looking forward to the extra stage theme the most in every game but extra stages themes post-GFW just wasn't nearly as good, not that I'm saying they're bad though.
I dunno. I love the TD Extra stage theme.
That said, out of those three, TD's Extra theme is the only one I've heard in-game too.
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Yep, it's using the shortcut that gives me boxes instead of Japanese, and nothing else. It's all good, I'll wait for a hard patch. Or just use the wiki.
I guess you don't really care if this soft patch will work or not but I'm still interested to help you and make it work.
After you configured the patch, was there anything translated? For example, difficulty choices or info panel on the right which are done in hard images and should work.
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Well, I didn't think that the extra stage theme was bad in this game, I actually liked it, even if I wouldn't compare it to my favorites, UFO Romance and Extend Ash.
Raiko's theme had a really good atmosphere and the drum/piano bit was really good, but I feel like the zunpet (?) part was average and compared to some other ex-boss themes, it could have been more outstanding. My taste really.
My favorite boss themes are probably Seijas, Sukunas and Kagerous. Wasakagihimes and the Tsukumos theme sounded a bit dull/repetitive to me. Sekibankis theme is the same case for me as Raikos theme, it sounds really good actually, but not that amazing after I listened to it alot.
Of the stage themes, I probably liked the extra stage, stage 6 and stage 2 themes the most. I dunno about the others, since I can't remember them that well.
Overall really good soundtrack imo, with Sukunas theme as my absolute favorite.
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Thanks Edible for spawning the thread, just returned from holidays.
Boy, a quick run through easy mode made me get a good luck at this game. I'll try to write an expanded article soon when I recover from the trip and read upon all the information provided by the folks. Please watch warmly.
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Hey, wait a sec, people. Kobito... Doesn't that sound a bit like... Hobbit? Yeah, I know, these are different words even in Japanese. But, given how much Tolkien "borrowed" from other mythologies, could he have used this word as a base for his "hobbits"? Interesting.
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Hey, wait a sec, people. Kobito... Doesn't that sound a bit like... Hobbit? Yeah, I know, these are different words even in Japanese. But, given how much Tolkien "borrowed" from other mythologies, could he have used this word as a base for his "hobbits"? Interesting.
The story goes that Tolkien was bored out of his mind one day grading papers when he wrote "Once in a hole there lived a hobbit" on one such paper. Tolkien was keen about ancient English and Norse mythology, but east Asian traditions, not so much. Also, Japan was a closed society engaged in a war of aggression at the time he started drafting The Hobbit.
So, unlikely. But fun to consider.
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We can now add "Sukuna using the hammer again" and "Seija reversing things" to the Touhou Explanation TemplateTM.
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Boy, a quick run through easy mode made me get a good luck at this game.
Yep, just 1cc'd with Reimu A in Easy Mode. I like the new closing credits!
Extra, I haven't been able to crack so easily, naturally, because it's not like there's an Easy Mode for Extra. But what I've seen of Extra so far, I really enjoy.
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One thing I forgot: Kagerou's last spell card on E/N. The chance of it being intended to be "Stirling Pounce" is low (for the basis of this translation, see the wiki). The reason is: to the Japanese, the place Stirling is too obscure, and its legend of being saved by a wolf significantly more so. Through google, I can find zero Japanese reference to this story, not even on Stirling's Japanese wikipedia entry. For ZUN to know it, it would have to be through reading a book, and I don't think it's something notable enough to be included in anything he would read. Then there's the trebuchet "Warwolf" which is less relevant, and again, not something ZUN is likely to read about. When he makes Western cultural references, they have always been things that are well-known in Japan, rather than anything extremely in-depth. Famous musical instrument makers? Totally the kind of thing a well-educated Japanese is supposed to know.
(For the same reason, the theory that "Bucuresti's Doll Maker" references the picture book of similar name is unlikely, as that book doesn't appear to be well-known in Japan.)
The remaining possibilities are "Starling", "Sterling" and "Star Ring". Given that she has another card with "Star" in name and the H/L version is named "Sirius", it's probably meant to be "Star Ring Pounce".
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Yep, just 1cc'd with Reimu A in Easy Mode. I like the new closing credits!
ZUN (173cm).
:V
BTW that Kii-san that appears on the staff roll is ZUN's wife?
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ZUN (173cm).
:V
that is a bald-faced lie
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I don't know if he's 173 cm high, but I'd like to know what exactly is this joke referencing. I only understand it has to with Attack on Titan, and he wrote "body length: 173 cm", a term for animals, instead of human's "height".
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A few spell cards reminds me of some video's by yuke. Especially one of Raiko's spell card (http://youtu.be/8uv-YELNC3s).
Anyway, at first the music sounded somewhat lame, but a few cathes my attention. Namely, stage 4, Benben/Yatsuhashi's, stage 5 and Raiko's themes. Final boss and extra stage theme still sound extremely boring though. Especially the extra stage theme, it sounds so Marine Benefit-ish. And I hate the music from that game.
Which spellcard and where in the video? i can't seem to see the spellcard :P
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Which spellcard and where in the video? i can't seem to see the spellcard :P
Probably death drum (having the screen and bullets shaking repeatedly while dodging)
Also, best credits theme? Best credits theme. Even better than EoSD's in my opinion, and I loved that one so much. But Mysterious Exorcism/Purification Rod was such an amazing theme, so hearing a remix of it sure brought a smile to my lips! ...Especially after 1ccing the game with all that BS Sukuna puts you through.
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lolwut? It's the best song in the game.
Meh the Extra and ExBoss themes in my opinion seem overrated... They aren't that great to me... Nothing to really make them noteworthy...
Though I do like Benben & Yatsuhashi's theme mainly the haunting feeling of it.
Seija I love because it reminds me of Rigid Paradise, my favorite song from TD.
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One thing I found a lot of fun:
So, you fight Benben if you're A, and Reclining-tan if you're B. But once you unlock them both, in Spell Practice, you can fight them with A or B. Kind of neat to see how the Koto Girl does against A (spoiler: not very well
).
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One thing I found a lot of fun:
So, you fight Benben if you're A, and Reclining-tan if you're B. But once you unlock them both, in Spell Practice, you can fight them with A or B. Kind of neat to see how the Koto Girl does against A (spoiler: not very well
).
He should've did it for the whole stage like in IN.
Meh the Extra and ExBoss themes in my opinion seem overrated... They aren't that great to me... Nothing to really make them noteworthy...
Though I do like Benben & Yatsuhashi's theme mainly the haunting feeling of it.
Seija I love because it reminds me of Rigid Paradise, my favorite song from TD.
Oh I see. Though I kinda disagree with the overrated part. Benben and Yatsuhashi's theme just doesn't click with me. It's not bad but nothing noteworthy over the other songs.
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credits theme
Gives you a "fuck yeah i bombspammed beated 2hu14" feeling, but I won't take it over Sky Dream
yet
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I encountered a humorous glitch with Seija's spell, "Reverse Sign "This Side Down". This is the spell where she shoots purple orbs and flips the screen upside-down.
Right after I started this spell, my dad came into the room and told me to clean my room. I was cleaning least an hour, and, as it does, the computer went into sleep mode.
When I come back and turn on the computer again, A.) TH14 was still running and B.) The screen had been flipped the right way again, despite the fact that I hadn't completed the spell.
Unfortunately, I am a very bad Touhou player and wasn't able to save a replay, but I was hoping someone could recreate the glitch again.
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I encountered a humorous glitch with Seija's spell, "Reverse Sign "This Side Down". This is the spell where she shoots purple orbs and flips the screen upside-down.
Right after I started this spell, my dad came into the room and told me to clean my room. I was cleaning least an hour, and, as it does, the computer went into sleep mode.
When I come back and turn on the computer again, A.) TH14 was still running and B.) The screen had been flipped the right way again, despite the fact that I hadn't completed the spell.
Unfortunately, I am a very bad Touhou player and wasn't able to save a replay, but I was hoping someone could recreate the glitch again.
Did you apply the new patch in the game. I think that there was one glitch about "canceling Seija's spellcard effect by using Alt+Tab" or something like.
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So, all the talk about Kobito being translated as dwarf made me have ideas for "Snow Whiterock and the (9) Kobitos"
Featuring:
Snow Whiterock - Letty
Mirror - Seija
Evil Queen - Yukari
Hunter - Reimu
Prince - Marisa
Kobito #1 - Sukuna
Kobito #2 - Cirno
Kobito #3 - Rumia
Kobito #4 - Wriggle
Kobito #5 - Daiyousei
Kobito #6 - Aki
Kobito #7 - Mystia
Kobito #8 - Kyouko
Kobito #9 - Yuuka
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Interesting to see people mentioning how they like Stage 5 a lot, but nobody pointing out it has a very clear and obvious melody inspired Komachi's theme for quite the length. Stage 4 boss theme has a small part which resembles/inspires from our classic Menu songs and IN stg 4.
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Oh it resembles Komachi's theme, Ultimate Truth too. And some others, but it meshes them well. Futo may as well watch and learn.
Figured out what I find disappointing about Shinmyoumaru's theme - there's no memorable meldey whatsoever. In fact, it's pretty much a dumbed down version of the stage portion's. It's like the relationship between Yuyuko's theme and RB's background rave party.
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Figured out what I find disappointing about Shinmyoumaru's theme - there's no memorable meldey whatsoever. In fact, it's pretty much a dumbed down version of the stage portion's.
THANK YOU! Someone who else feels like that! Though not "dumbed down". I'd say it's more serious, but it's just the stage theme essentially.
(Hence why I think it's overrated along with Extra stage/boss, and that's for the first reason)
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Final boss's theme is all atmosphere with no melody. Much like Miko's. It's almost like it's just repeating the first two seconds of the PoDD menu theme.
And I still hear Power of Darkness in Seija's theme.
And Enter Sandman at the start of stage 1.
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Final boss's theme is all atmosphere with no melody. Much like Miko's. It's almost like it's just repeating the first two seconds of the PoDD menu theme.
And I still hear Power of Darkness in Seija's theme.
And Enter Sandman at the start of stage 1.
...i'm dying
It really is PoDD holy god.
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Komachi's theme for quite the length.
It's only 7 notes.
In fact, it's pretty much a dumbed down version of the stage portion's
Uh, the stage theme is literally just the first minute of the boss version, and the latter has way better impact and flow.
Heck, even the ending theme shits on the stage theme.
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It's only 7 notes.
Not just 7 notes. 7 notes exactly forming the melody for a part and repeated quite often to flow closely to the bgm. Though logically the melody spins around in its own sense because that is whay ZUN is good at.
But hey we've been through songs sounding similar before. Except there is a difference between farfetch'd resemblance and "this is noticeable for the common ears" thing. Mind you.
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That bit was repeated only once before the song moves on to the trumpet phase (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aluFZ-cCH7g#t=1m01). This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aluFZ-cCH7g#t=1m09) is already a different melody altogether. You might as well say any 7-note melody with the same tempo is a derivation of Higan Retour.
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Disappointing is the lack of boss silhouette on extra stages backgrounds. I miss backgrounds like Mokou's round face.
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Final boss's theme is all atmosphere with no melody. Much like Miko's.
True, but I feel like the melody is alot more powerful than Miko's theme, while still being beautiful. (I don't really hate Miko's theme, but it's not really my favorite theme, even in TD.)
Atleast to me.
Figured out what I find disappointing about Shinmyoumaru's theme - there's no memorable meldey whatsoever.
Agreed. I really liked the piano/drum part, but after that, it sounds too messy. I wish zun would have built up the dark and interesting parts, instead of what sounds to me as random trumpets.
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Are you sure they're random? The part after the piano+drum doesn't have just trumpets; you need headphones to make out the layer underneath it.
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Final boss's theme is all atmosphere with no melody.
Wow, I could not disagree more. "No melody"? How catchy it is probably varies from person to person, but I've been whistling that song all day yesterday. Trust me, it has several melodies.
The musical duo's theme, however ...
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Are you sure they're random? The part after the piano+drum doesn't have just trumpets; you need headphones to make out the layer underneath it.
Well ofcourse they're not entirely random and while I can sense some piano/drum similair beat in the background of the intense trumpets, I still feel like it loses it's harmony after the 2 minute mark when I listen to it.
Sukuna's theme is simply beautiful. Just the melody itself is grand, which shows already in the stage 6 theme, which probably makes it my favorite stage theme in DDC as well, next to the stage 2 theme. It has a melody, even if not too complex.
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Come on guys, stating your opinions is one thing, but making statements like this:
Final boss's theme is all atmosphere with no melody.
Which are blatantly passing an opinion as a fact, when it's quite obvious that it's a subjective thing (as Tengu showed), will lead us nowhere.
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That bit was repeated only once before the song moves on to the trumpet phase (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aluFZ-cCH7g#t=1m01). This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aluFZ-cCH7g#t=1m09) is already a different melody altogether. You might as well say any 7-note melody with the same tempo is a derivation of Higan Retour.
Correct me if I am wrong. Isn't that the point of hearing resembles in pieces of songs? When a piece of melody sounds similar to another song, that is obviously going to be picked up as a resembles or inspired derivation of a theme. Or are you going to say all the classic menu songs are different melody?
Edit: Never mind actually . . .
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He just means that only a small part of the song resembles Komachi's theme so it's in no way a "derivation".
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Which are blatantly passing an opinion as a fact, when it's quite obvious that it's a subjective thing (as Tengu showed), will lead us nowhere.
I think it can be assumed that when someone's talking about music, he's stating his opinion. Naturally I don't mean the song literally has no melody in it (which is inconceivable to begin with). I'm saying it's far less melodic, or at least has less melodic variety, than your average Touhou boss theme. The melody near the beginning is nice but midway through (at the PoDD part, if you will) it becomes extremely repetitive.
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It's what you think, yes. I, on the other hand, think it's as varied as normal for a boss theme. Look at Mokou's theme, or Utsuho's, or Miko's, or Suwako's; they all have a lot of repetition.
See, my problem is not that you think the song is not as good as others. My problem is when people just come and say "I don't understand why people say song x is so good it's so overrated". I mean for heaven's sake, what do you want? For most people to not like the music because you don't? Because that's the impression this kind of comment gives me. "I don't enjoy it, so people that do don't know as much about music/don't have a taste as refined as me". It just comes across as very pretentious, even if it wasn't your intention.
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You got all that from that one comment? Bwahahaha, this is too good
btw the song is garbage
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No need to deliberately stir shit, chum.
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You got all that from that one comment? Bwahahaha, this is too good
btw the song is garbage
troll in the dungeons :V
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No need to deliberately stir shit, chum.
It's much easier to just face the other direction, sure, but how could "Final boss's theme is all atmosphere with no melody." possibly translate to all that stuff the other guy ranted about
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It wasn't that I was refering too. I was refering to the kind of comment that says" x song is overrated" as a fact, which was made previously on the thread.
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So you know what song I like? The title theme! Isn't the title theme great? It's possibly supplanted MoF's title theme as my favorite of the non-fighter title themes! Aren't ZUN's songs wonderful?
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It wasn't that I was refering too. I was refering to the kind of comment that says" x song is overrated" as a fact, which was made previously on the thread.
in that case i share your sentiments since anyone that actually uses the term overrated unironically deserves some scolding
except the "fact" part because you can't just pretend that someone who is expressing an opinion is passing it off as a fact, that's really not very nice or fair behaviour and you should be ashamed
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Re-reading the thread, you're right, actually. I misremembered what was really said and overreacted. Sorry for that.
So you know what song I like? The title theme! Isn't the title theme great? It's possibly supplanted MoF's title theme as my favorite of the non-fighter title themes! Aren't ZUN's songs wonderful?
I agree. It's one of the first times I delayed playing the game itself just so I could hear the full title theme.
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The title theme is indeed a thing of beauty.
Also, I think the Stage 5 theme would make a great hook for a rap song. Put a fatter beat behind it, give a competent MC the mic, and bam - instant hit.
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At last I gave a proper attempt to 1cc on Normal. I knew that the game is quite easy at this difficulty but not that much. I managed to do it on my 3rd time with SakuyaA (2nd try ended with single dot line of healthbar on last spellcard). So DCC is the second in terms of difficulty on Normal for me (1st - EoSD). Game music is quite nice but not that much like it is praised here :) On the other hand, I find it to be interesting that there are so many opinions on best tracks, so ZUN did a great job to provide such a good variety in this soundtrack. In my case, I like Stage 5 track most of all. Gameplay is simple and clear, still is interesting way to make players to risk their lives. Overall, this game is quite good and is worth playing.
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The title theme is pretty much my favorite title theme of all time barring This Dull World's Unchanging Pessimism (but then again that's from HM so...).
As for the other songs, here be my brief opinions (grain of salt is totally in effect here):
Stage 4: Moody, fits well, I like it.
Stage 4 Boss: Not bad, very different from a lot of things I've heard before, random Theme of Eastern Story that doesn't need to be there but whatever.
Stage 5: Also moody, certainly a lot darker than some songs I've heard in Touhou. I never noticed the similarity to Higan Retour until someone pointed it out, so that's something.
Stage 5 Boss: Reminds me in terms of the mood of the song to Rigid Paradise, and it sort of ties in with the ridiculousness of the gimmick (which I don't think is that bad once you get used to it but until then it's a pretty good surprise).
Stage 6: Very simple and repetitive, it sets the mood but out of the three songs that share that melody, I don't like it as much.
Stage 6 Boss: This took some warming up to, but afterwards I really enjoyed listening to it. That melody shared between the songs is much more powerful here. Also, it's similar to PoDD's title theme? Uh... I'll take your word for it.
Extra Stage: Again, moody and damn well fits, I think this is a good song.
Extra Boss: ...Pristine Beat does not do it for me. It's an okay song, but it doesn't feel like an Extra Stage boss song at all.
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One thing I liked about TD was how quickly I warmed up to the songs. Doesn't seem to be as much of the case with DDC.
As of right now, I'm only into the Stage 4, Stage 5, Boss 6, and EX Boss themes. I'm really hoping I get to liking the rest.
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I like the stage 6 song more because it feels a little bit more organized to me. It's very repetitive, sure; but it fits in with the rushing aspect of the song. The drums are very adrenaline rushing too. Just on simple beat can cause the feeling that there is no time to waste before Gensokyo is ruled by the less powerful. The intro part creates the environment, the hall of a floating castle in a rainstorm. Then the piano part comes and it shows that you are in the hall and everything seems so close, yet so far at the same time. Everything goes well together.
The stage 6 boss is a replicate of my favorite song but makes it less enjoyable to me. The guitar intro is a little to rough and strong and makes the song feel exaggerated in power, because the boss is supposedly weak without her malet. Then when the little melodic beats come in, they just don't fit in with the guitar. The piano and drum come in after, and that might be my favorite part of the song. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it. The trumpets come in soon, and it feels like she's taking other character's songs. First I hear a bit of A Dream Transcending Space-Time intro in the trumpets, than another piano comes in and reminds me of Kaguya and Eiren. Another instrument comes in after, and creates the PoDD intro melody again. This part repeats itself and creates the rushing feeling. It is catchy though. The trumpets and piano come in and work together to make the chorus now. And it feels like the battle is at the intense part. Another part I don't really mind.
In summary, I just feel that the boss theme is a little dramatic with the guitar during the intro, and the middle part is a little too nostalgic. I'm not trying to create any hate or anything, it's just I like the stage theme more. Every theme has it's downsides and upsides, but to me, the stage has less downsides and creates a nice atmosphere more.
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I'm still not hearing any PoDD in the final boss theme. In case you're referring to this part (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqFU9aDuITw#t=1m29), it has a completely different mood from A Dream Transcending Space-Time.
That's my favorite part of the song, though. It's not the trumpet, it's the layer of very soft instrument right under it.
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Come on guys, stating your opinions is one thing, but making statements like this:Which are blatantly passing an opinion as a fact, when it's quite obvious that it's a subjective thing (as Tengu showed), will lead us nowhere.
I hate when people say stuff like this. It's implied that it's an opinion. It would be pretty unnecessary and tedious to have to say "IMO" or whatever every time you state an opinion. The reader should be able to infer that it's an opinion, when that is obviously the case. Like in Zil's post, or the sentences in this post.
BTW, since nobody else seems to think so - stage 4 boss's theme is the best song in the game. I said it. Give it some love.
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BTW, since nobody else seems to think so - stage 4 boss's theme is the best song in the game. I said it. Give it some love.
I hope this is ironic. Because argleblargle is all I can say about that thing.
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You're not reclining hard enough, obviously.
Formless: It's mainly the part at 3:34 http://youtu.be/FqFU9aDuITw?t=3m34s The earlier parts are less similar, yes.
And while we're on the subject, Sekibanki's theme is the best song in the game by far.
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BTW, since nobody else seems to think so - stage 4 boss's theme is the best song in the game. I said it. Give it some love.
No, out of every song in the game it's the worst.
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Pfft. The worst song is the Stage 1. How anyone can play that stage without either knocking the sound levels all the way down to sub-zero levels or without suffering from migraines are seriously weird. I'm right, you guys are wrong. If you don't believe me, it's because you don't play on Lunatic probably. ;)
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The best song in the game is the secret TLB theme. If you don't believe me, you need to git gud and be a cool LNMNB player such as myself ;)
Sekibanki's theme is the best song in the game by far.
this. more disco and less gitahs next game pls
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I hate when people say stuff like this. It's implied that it's an opinion. It would be pretty unnecessary and tedious to have to say "IMO" or whatever every time you state an opinion. The reader should be able to infer that it's an opinion, when that is obviously the case. Like in Zil's post, or the sentences in this post.
BTW, since nobody else seems to think so - stage 4 boss's theme is the best song in the game. I said it. Give it some love.
Alright. Let's enjoy the next 10 pages of "Stage X is best song in game" "No stage Y is clearly best" "You're all wrong all themes suck" "No only boss Z's theme suck"
It's such a fascinating discussion, after all.
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Here, how about this:
I think Boss/Stage X's theme is good/bad/fantastic because of Y.
Key word: think
People have opinions, and all opinions can be considered equal.
So far, I'm really loving all the songs, especially the Tsukumo's theme. Raiko's theme isn't really getting my love yet, but a few more listens should do the trick.
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To me, no matter what word is added or absent, I treat music choices as a personal opinion by default. Which can apply for a lot of things such as food, colours etc.
"Blue is a shit colour", "Apples are gross", "Trance music sucks".
Approach them default as opinions and the world will be a better place. Or would it? Who knows.
Edit:
Hence I never or rarely bother with the music whether it sounds good or bad in my articles. Speaking of the article, I have to get working on that orz.
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BTW, since nobody else seems to think so - stage 4 boss's theme is the best song in the game. I said it. Give it some love.
Seconding this, though for some reason it doesn't seem to be a popular opinion? Definitely caught my attention quickly after the Stage 5 theme and Stage 6 Boss.
My favourite songs from this game are probably the Stage 2, 4 and 6 Boss themes and the Stage 2, 3, and 5 themes. Generally the music is pretty good and works very nicely to create an intense atmosphere that suits the game. I do personally prefer the older style (Pre-TD) of ZUN's music though, the melodies were more memorable and seemed to be focused more on the character than creating an intense atmosphere. And yeah, the Extra stage and boss music for DDC, while good, feel kind of like a step down from most of the pre-TD extra BGM.
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I hate when people say stuff like this. It's implied that it's an opinion. It would be pretty unnecessary and tedious to have to say "IMO" or whatever every time you state an opinion. The reader should be able to infer that it's an opinion, when that is obviously the case. Like in Zil's post, or the sentences in this post.
I hate when people say stuff like this, so it's good to see so many people just on this page get the point. The reader should not and cannot infer anything. It doesn't even help that much to use "imo", because whoever's putting the opinion out generally believes it's a fact (self security measure); that's how humans work. At the very least, adding "imo" will act as a sort of buffer (it gives the impression that you're being thoughtful), so please try to slip it in when you can.
As for the game, I can't even play it. All I know is that Raiko is cool.
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MY OPINION IS THE BEST OPINION.
STAGE 2 THEME RULES THEM ALL.
lol jk I'm sorry don't hurt me.
just because this seems like a trend at the moment.
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The reader should not and cannot infer anything. It doesn't even help that much to use "imo", because whoever's putting the opinion out generally believes it's a fact (self security measure); that's how humans work.
Human do not necessarily think their opinions are fact, especially when it comes to something as obviously a matter of taste as Favorite Songs In This Game. Sure, it doesn't hurt to add an IMO caveat, but it isn't really necessary for discussing taste, I don't think.
And yeah, it's definitely cool when people discuss what they like or dislike about a song, because that's a discussion and whatnot.
But anyway, the point is moot because the Stage 6 theme is objectively the best song in the game, and if you don't think so, you probably don't get it because you're not a Lunatic player.
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So i was watching some high score replays from Royalflare. The amount of resource milking by MarisaB especially in stage 4 blows my mind.
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Stage 4 midboss
EDIT: Is it just me or Reimu moves much slower in this game than in UFO? The orbs seem to take longer to reach their focused position too. It's really uncomfortable.
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This is the first time I found Reimu actually too slow for my tastes (especially in attacks like Seija's midboss spell, where she struggles even getting out of the bullets' way), and even Sakuya doesn't seem that fast compared to PCB or IN.
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This is the first time I found Reimu actually too slow for my tastes (especially in attacks like Seija's midboss spell, where she struggles even getting out of the bullets' way), and even Sakuya doesn't seem that fast compared to PCB or IN.
ZUN stopped changing speeds between shottypes after PoFV. I think Marisa is like .5 of a pixel faster then Reimu unfocused in the next few games, which is an amount difficult to even notice; I'm not sure if even that's still true in UFO and on since there's more characters now.
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I wonder why Gensokyo still didn't enable support for DDC replays. I know that the game was released only one week ago, just wonder.
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50 dollars says the replays.gensokyo.org admin is dead.
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Not to rush anyone or anything, but I hope that they update it soon.
I want to wait for the replay archive to be up before I start my round 3 DDC tournament, that way it's more convenient to submit replays.
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Does anyone know exactly what is this grassroots youkai network that Kagerou talks about?
It sounds like some kind of penpal stuff. Or maybe a Gensokyo version of Google+ because no one remembers it.
You see, I was wondering how one would translate it to other languages. Without a context you either try to localize it in a roundabout way or get a clunky and almost literal translation.
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On the topic of Stage 4 boss' theme, I belive I have already stated I think it is very good.
However, I likewise think Stage 5/6/EX outdo it.
Stage 4 does have a GREAT stage theme, however, IMO.
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I like how ZUN is dabbling into other music in DDC rather than just 'Jazz/Rock fusion with a hint of loli' like he usually does. I like diversity a lot, and this game has a lot of it, which really suits the diversity of the characters.
Strangely, the themes remind of things they shouldn't remind me of. Like, Wakasagihime's theme makes me think of Dolphin Rider Koishi, the Tsukumo's theme makes me think of London, and Sukuna's makes me think of 'Mirror, Mirror' from RWBY. There's a verse in the song that sounds like a verse from Mirror Mirror.
Also, ZUN made a total call back to Retribution for the Eternal Night in Bamboo Forest of the Full Moon.
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Well, I'm not extremely picky with the songs (I like them all), but I find Sekibanki & Seiji's boss battles to be extremely catchy, and always keep humming it after I finish the game. The frantic aspect of both their songs makes the battle much more enjoyable.
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The stage 1 theme and Wakasagihime's theme are both very catchy to me. It has that flowery and misty feel to it. I constantly catch myself humming these a lot.
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<@zengeku> haha, motherfucking hell :D
<@zengeku> ReimuA bowl loli final spell: captures with 65 seconds left
<@zengeku> Sakuya A? captures with 90 seconds left
<@zengeku> :V
<@zengeku> Character balancing!
Seriously boys and girls, this is absurd! I didn't know SakuyaA was THAT much more powerful against this attack!
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I have a feeling that SakuyaA has the most powerful shottype among other ones for idle boss attacks.
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Sakuya A murders bosses.
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I haven't tried out Marisa since the release, but is Marisa B still Marisa Broken?
At the time of the demo, her bomb seemed ridiculous and I assume ZUN changed it in some way.
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Yeah, the Marisa tweaking was in the 1.00b patch, I believe.
Also yes, SakuyaA makes up for her difficulty of control in stages by being a total badass against bosses.
Character balance!
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What difficulty of control?
Makes everything slower. If anything it's because she's tripped you up and you're used to things being faster.
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What difficulty of control?
Makes everything slower. If anything it's because she's tripped you up and you're used to things being faster.
Ah, to clarify: I'm referring to the Shift toggling necessary to make sure the homing knives go where you want them to go, instead of hanging on some random popcorn fairy.
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Yeah, the Marisa tweaking was in the 1.00b patch, I believe.
Nope it was changed when it released the patch doesn't do anything to the characters.
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What exactly happened to her, then? Damage nerf, autocollect cap, bomb time?
She was my favorite non-cursed option for obvious reason :ohdear:.
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Her bomb doesn't turn bullets into power during spell cards anymore. So you're encouraged to capture spells, but you can still use it to its fullest on nonspells and stages.
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In any case, I think it's very unlikely he would change shot types after the full release. It would just end up invalidating everyone's replays
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Marisa B's main nerf is that bosses no longer drop power items during spell cards. I can't really say about anything else since I avoid broken shot types like the plague. I only play as Reimu A.
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Y'all got some interesting definitions of 'broken'!
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Yeah, the Marisa tweaking was in the 1.00b patch, I believe.
Also yes, SakuyaA makes up for her difficulty of control in stages by being a total badass against bosses.
Character balance!
Difficulty of control? Every 1 bomb she uses is either 5/8ths of a bomb, or two. She can just bombspam stages. Not to mention the handouts from all the point/power items with autocollect she can get just from unfocused fireing while bombspamming. You don't need to focus that much in stages, on Normal at least, and most of the points where you do are good places to bomb for the autocollect anyway...
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Scroll up ...
Wait, allow me:
I'm referring to the Shift toggling necessary to make sure the homing knives go where you want them to go, instead of hanging on some random popcorn fairy.
I think some of you might be reading a bit too much into what I said, which was only half-serious anyway. Toggling focus right isn't super effin' hard or anything; it just adds another thing you have to do to play SakuyaA right, which I think tips the scales a little bit away from how powerful she is against bosses. That's all.
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Only a couple of phases in the whole game have summons at all, and they're all on Stage 2. I don't think Seki's midboss nonspell or 2nd boss spellcard really matter too much. The nonspell can be done non-focus to eliminate the wisps, and the 2nd spellcard becomes easier after the two base heads die anyway.
Stages, as I mentioned in my previous post, can easily be handled unfocused or by bombs in the parts that require focus and elimination of targets, and even then, most focused shottypes are pretty awful at stages in this game with the exception of Reimu A and *maybe* Marisa A, which are average at best.
ZUN did a good job at making people just not perma-focus this game.
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ZUN did a good job at making people just not perma-focus this game.
I agree. I think the risk rewarding in this game is a lot of fun. Personally, I don't use SakuyaA, because I find her unwieldy for some reason.
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So MarisaB(roken) just got fixed for spellcards?
I'm sorry for MarisaB's bomb lovers who wanted to increase PIV and get items with Sekibanki's spells.
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So MarisaB(roken) just got fixed for spellcards?
I'm sorry for MarisaB's bomb lovers who wanted to increase PIV and get items with Sekibanki's spells.
Sakuya B's bomb is just like Reimu A in SA.
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Anyone else can't step away from SakuyaA?
Let me start with saying SakuyaB is pretty pointless, as A does better straightforward damage and also has a similar unfocused spread.
Reimu.... hmmm.... I just can't get into her in DDC. She is usually the character of choice, but in DDC she just seems so useless.
MarisaA, I hate how you are as slow as a snail during masterspark and that her flamethrower has bad range. MarisaB is probably the 2nd character I will try everything with, her missiles do good damage and have some AoE (I think/hope). Her bomb is nice too, as it lingers for a while.
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For me I prefer not to play as Sakuya A, Reimu A is good enough and doesn't turn a boss into complete jelly.
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So this game has
- EoSD's scoring
- PCB's enemy health
- IN's memotrash
- PoFV's RNG
He surely got that neo-retro thing down. When's the next photography game?
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So this game has
- EoSD's scoring
- PCB's enemy health
- IN's memotrash
- PoFV's RNG
He surely got that neo-retro thing down. When's the next photography game?
1: Nope
2: Far from it
3:wut?
4:meh
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1: Nope
2: Far from it
3:wut?
4:meh
- http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Point_of_collection, http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Graze
- Try playing ReimuB some time.
- A ton of attacks behave the same way every time as long as you move in the same pattern. The final boss is literally another Kaguya.
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Imo, SakuyaA is nerfed enough as she is. The nerf being having to fight Benben. Seriously, her fight smells like urine.
Player's gonna wanna fight Recliner and as such, to get the superior fight one must learn to play the B-types. Simple as that. :V
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- http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Point_of_collection, http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Graze
- Try playing ReimuB some time.
- A ton of attacks behave the same way every time as long as you move in the same pattern. The final boss is literally another Kaguya.
Yeah we totally can't use POC and Graze for score in other games.
I have, still doesn't compare to the terrible shot types of PCB.
What? Whatever you're trying to get at isn't clicking in my head.
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Yeah we totally can't use POC and Graze for score in other games.
We don't just PoC and graze for score in the other games.
What? Whatever you're trying to get at isn't clicking in my head.
Play more, no offense. Namely IN Lunatic and Extra.
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EosD
- Graze to raise the value of bullet cancels.
- Bomb for bullet cancels.
- Bomb for point items.
- PoC without bombing when possible.
DDC
- Graze to raise the value of point items.
- Bomb for bullet cancels to raise the value of point items.
- Bomb for point items.
- PoC without bombing when possible.
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And people truly believed Benben would overshadow the great Recliner.
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The reason I'm not sure I would compare DDC with EoSD is because in EoSD grazing is the bulk of your score while in DDC it is really minor.
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And people truly believed Benben would overshadow the great Recliner.
From the moment I first laid eyes upon her, first her legs then her face, I knew that she would be the superior sister. Everyone who didn't know that are *insert random bigotty sexual-orientation remark here that neither makes sense or has an relevance here*
Also, Infinite Ultima Wave, please recline from talking about things you clearly don't know anything about alright? ;) ;) ;) ;)
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We don't just PoC and graze for score in the other games.
Play more, no offense. Namely IN Lunatic and Extra.
I never said that was all you do in the other games. My point being is that DDC doesn't have EoSD scoring. There's more to it than simply getting to the POC, the multiplier is what separates the two. And like I said, grazing can play a part in the score in other games as well.
Anyway, I won't make a big deal out of it, as it's not like it is a bad thing.
If I have over 10hours of gameplay as well as another 15hours from when I had the game on another computer I think played IN enough. Especially Extra.
Also, Infinite Ultima Wave, please recline from talking about things you clearly don't know anything about alright? ;) ;) ;) ;)
Or, how about I talk about whatever I want. Is that alright?
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Soooo technically, MarisaB's nerf... isn't really a nerf. After all, why would you powerbomb during a spellcard?
(But maybe that's just me trying to bridge the gap between scoring and survival. I suppose that explains why, to this day, I've only 1cc'd normal with SakuyaA :( )
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Shining Needle Sword is just...I can't do it. I've never been good with dagger bullets. That's probably the only card that seems unassailable to me right now. Are there any strategies for it or its complementary non-card prior?
Sukuna has made me afraid of final bosses again. She's ruthless.
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Shining Needle Sword is just...I can't do it. I've never been good with dagger bullets. That's probably the only card that seems unassailable to me right now. Are there any strategies for it or its complementary non-card prior?
You can memorize both of them.
Just play them a bunch.
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You can memorize both of them.
Are the blue knives static? I have a feeling they are but I can't really confirm it.
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I've felt that they're slightly different sometimes (a few pixels different horizontally from where you'd expected) but when that happens the following waves are always different by the same margin and, besides, the blue knives always "act" the same. The white knife streams become longer and longer and the extent of which is static. So yes you can pretty much learn how to do the spell and capture it most of the time.
I think the third nonspell is completely static by the way.
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I think the third nonspell is completely static by the way.
Welp, that makes for 6 static attacks. Good job on that final boss ZUN
There's more to it than simply getting to the POC, the multiplier is what separates the two.
And you get this multiplier once every 1,000 graze at the bottom of the screen, right?
I never said that was all you do in the other games.
Uh ... so we're in agreement? DDC is similar to EoSD and not any of the other games in the sense that point item collecting and grazing are all there is to scoring and there isn't an extra layer of silliness on top of it such as cherry, time, faith, magnetism, UFOs or spirits.
played IN enough.
The stuff I was talking about are all on Lunatic.
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Sakuya's bomb makes use of the cherry mechanic, even awarding its own version of the "border bonus". How that's related to scoring, though, I honestly haven't paid attention. Might have no connection at all.
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It's similar to a cherry border in survival respects but I wouldn't say it makes use of the cherry mechanic. It's just another temporary shield like MarisaC in SA. It's scoring uses are that you can gather items by activating it as well as gather items by breaking it again which means you can get two collections per bomb. It's quite different from the cherry system which generally wants you to not break the border as well as grazing unfocused for mad PiV gain.
From a survival perspective though, it is pretty much the same thing except you can pop it on command. ;)
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Ah, thanks, Zengeku. Maybe I oughta use the maid more!
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For Shining Needle Sword, if you shotgun Sukuna (you'll want to be at about 1/4 of her health bar circle) and not the bowl, you'll do significantly more damage and end the card faster. Of course, you can only do it in the beginning of the card until the silver knives start pushing you back toward the bottom, but that will be enough to make it somewhat manageable.
That was one spell I never attempted to capture until like 100 practice runs of it.
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And you get this multiplier once every 1,000 graze at the bottom of the screen, right?Uh ... so we're in agreement? DDC is similar to EoSD and not any of the other games in the sense that point item collecting and grazing are all there is to scoring and there isn't an extra layer of silliness on top of it such as cherry, time, faith, magnetism, UFOs or spirits.The stuff I was talking about are all on Lunatic.
Yes, but my point was while they're similar POC multiplier is DDC's gimmick, it's not as glaring as trance, or cherry, ect... Your post made me think you were saying that it was the same.
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For Shining Needle Sword, if you shotgun Sukuna (you'll want to be at about 1/4 of her health bar circle) and not the bowl, you'll do significantly more damage and end the card faster.
Wait, the bowl does not have a hitbox like Sukuna where you will die if you touch it? :o
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It isn't a solid hitbox no. For shots like SakuyaB it's EXTREMELY advantageous to shotgun her (unfocused, so that all of the knives hit the bowl) for as long as possible, especially for ending the first stage of the second nonspell before it gets dense.
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Wait, the bowl does not have a hitbox like Sukuna where you will die if you touch it? :o
The bowl has no hitbox. Go crazy inside it. However, Sukuna still has her hitbox, so don't get too wild. The fact that you can share..."bowlspace" with her makes SakuyaA murderous against her, because the focused knives will instantly tack themselves on it instead of the delay it usually has. ReimuA can also shove the gohei in her face for good damage as well, and MarisaA...well, you couldn't ask for a better shotgun opportunity. Even if the shottype doesn't rely on shotgunning, you'll do noticeably greater damage by getting up close and personal.
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Even if the shottype doesn't rely on shotgunning, you'll do noticeably greater damage by getting up close and personal.
I did some testing.
Final spell bonus with SakuyaB:
*Unfocused inside bowl most of the time 14,511,300 (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=29991)
*Focused shot 12,908,760 (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=29990)
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I did some testing.
The best part about that is that she can do it even faster. Though you won't get many times to pull off getting right in her face, the times you do certainly count for something.
*Shotgunning Sukuna. 14,942,820 (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=30002)
As further proof of better damage, I have run a test with MarisaA.
*Shotgunning Sukuna (15,697,980) (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=30004)
*Shotgunning Bowl (14,721,840) (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=30005)
All of the bowl-based spellcards and noncards can be made slightly easier by getting close.
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I'm not sure the 3rd spell would be easier by approaching the bowl. Even on Easy, where there aren't many small knives, I find that streaming the large knives at close range forces you to the side, so you're not always under the bowl. (If you have a replay that shows otherwise, could you upload it?)
It's definitely useful for the final spell and 2nd nonspell though.
Interesting how you can actually go that far into the bowl. Assuming it can be done reliably for the final spell, it'd gain about a million (every million counts) over my current SakuyaB score, and 2 million for my MarisaA score...
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(If you have a replay that shows otherwise, could you upload it?)
Challenge accepted. I offer two sets of data.
MarisaB
* MarisaB without initial shotgun. 17,023,180 (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=30006)
* MarisaB with initial shotgun. 18,870,770 (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=30007)
You can't completely hog her bowl on the third card, but you can get in precious seconds worth of shotgunning. THEN you get pushed back and forced to rely on however you normally capture the card. You shave off like 4-6 seconds from your regular capture...4-6 seconds that could've caused someone to get walled by the knives or clip the side of one. Notice how after MarisaB has to dodge the first wave of knives, that Sukuna's health is ~ half of her max. Instant profit as opposed to not getting close, where she has ~ 3/4 of her health.
SakuyaA
* SakuyaA without initial shotgun. 19,277,640 (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=30008)
* SakuyaA with initial shotgun. 21,271,970 (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=30009)
Not only does the card take almost 12 seconds, but it also makes the attack pitiful compared to the usual Lunatic version. I even broke my normal pattern of dodging the spell because of the knives slowing down the pattern. SakuyaA is just too good.
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Oh, so that's what you meant. I guess the initial damage is much more significant if you go inside the bowl rather than on the edge.
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Yep. The bowl is similar to hitting Yuyuko's fan. It's probably next to impossible to actually stay in front of Sukuna for that card, so that's a task best left to TAS runs. My guess is it'd take less than ten seconds to finish it like that.
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So, am I right by saying that Sukuna's Bowl-Shield is her own "Hat", increased in size by the power of the Lucky Mallet? I never quite understood. ???
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From what I gathered from her background story, the bowl was used as a boat. So in the fight, she pulls a Futo, and we fight those with nice boats. Since she also happens to wear a bowl as a hat (ZUN being drunk like normal), the bowl/boat she protects herself with must be a second bowl...unless ZUN was too lazy to give her animations without her bowl hat.
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I thought it was something she enlarged with the hammer. Huh.
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It seems SakuyaA's knives has quite an impact on Raiko's survival card, looking at this comparison footage (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21662200).
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It seems SakuyaA's knives has quite an impact on Raiko's survival card, looking at this comparison footage (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21662200).
That's interesting. It also seems that her knives slow down the timer as well. Only catch is you have to stay focused the entire time, otherwise you lose the advantage. SakuyaA breaks yet another challenge. What will she break next?
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I've heard that only works in spell practice.
SomeGuy712x and I have both tested it for a while, and it seems like it won't occur in full runs. Here's a replay (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=29954) of a run where it really seems like it should have occurred, but didn't (then I somehow captured it anyway). It's really easy to reproduce in spell practice though, once you know it exists.
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I've heard that only works in spell practice.
It doesn't necessarily work outside Spell Practice, but I can confirm that it can work in-stage (albeit to a lesser degree). When I did my first EX clear the eighth notes only came out at 10 seconds left.
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The themes are really good! I love Sakuya-A, but most runs on YT are all Reimu-B :c
Anyway, rankings on the DDC themes amongst the other themes from the other games (just my opinion, don't judge :3)
Descending Order:
Stage 1 Theme:
The Dark Blowhole
At the End of Spring
Night Sakura of Dead Spirits
Mist Lake
Paradise ~ Deep Mountain
A God that Loves People ~ Romantic Fall
A Soul as Red as a Ground Cherry
Illusionary Night ~ Ghostly Eyes
Pretty good theme overall, I liked that it was very upbeat and happy (but then again, aren't all Stage 1 themes?) and then it reminded me of Bad Apple at first. I liked it pretty much, but still not as good as themes like The Dark Blowhole or At the End of Spring.
Stage 1 Boss Theme:
Ghost Lead
Crystallized Silver
Because Princess Inada is Scolding Me
A Tiny, Tiny, Clever Commander
Mermaid from the Uncharted Land
Stirring an Autumn Moon ~ Mooned Insect
The Sealed Away Youkai ~ Lost Place
Apparitions Stalk the Night
Messy introduction, but then it really gets into it when the nice melody kicks in. It got stuck in my head after listening to it for a while, so good theme, not the best, but still nice. Also, the guitars. Needs more metal arranges.
Will edit the rest in later, that's all for now!
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Sukuna's theme is best enjoyed while dancing along in a giant bowl
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I really doubt Raiko Horikawa is the most evil character in TH14 because i saw 3 spinning things that looks like 666 symbol.
Also her Tie has Upsidedown Cross, Raiko might be Satan worshiper and she is the preview of TH15.
i am expecting that TH15 might be the darkest era of touhou universe(Rise of the demons against Reimu and Marisa perhaps?).
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Also her Tie has Upsidedown Cross, Raiko might be Satan worshiper and she is the preview of TH15.
I notice you bring up Christianity and Satanism in Touhou a lot. I mean a lot, a lot. Let me put your mind at ease.
There will be neither Christians nor Satanists in Touhou. Ever. Ever ever ever. It will not happen. Zero chance. "But symbols!" you say? No. The hexagram also features prominently in Touhou. Are there any Jewish Touhous? No there are not.
Give it a rest already.
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I really doubt Raiko Horikawa is the most evil character in TH14 because i saw 3 spinning things that looks like 666 symbol.
Also her Tie has Upsidedown Cross, Raiko might be Satan worshiper and she is the preview of TH15.
i am expecting that TH15 might be the darkest era of touhou universe(Rise of the demons against Reimu and Marisa perhaps?).
What is this? I don't even...
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I notice you bring up Christianity and Satanism in Touhou a lot. I mean a lot, a lot.
Autism ;)
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Christianity in my Touhou...?
Without even touching that one, it's safe to say that all extra bosses have had NO relevance to the plot of following games. (Vertical shooters, that is. And Yukari was essentially just a shottype in SA.)
...except for one ordinary magician. But her inclusion did not mean that Ten Desires was about rampant casual stealing.
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The only thing I remember of Christianity was when Ellen said to Yumemi, if she was Christian from the crosses she used as danmaku(that doesn't really count). Though either way, it has only been Shinto,Buddhism, and Taoism that actually is spiritually significant to Gensokyo. (I guess there's also Atheism)
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ReimuB from PCB is my Jesus.
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I think Raiko is a drummer in a Gensokyoan Black Metal band.
You heard it here first, guys.
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are you saying benben and recliner-san are wearing ironic outfits and that they're in fact part of said band
seija kindaa looks like she's the vocalist with corpse paint and all
kagerou specializing in th "howls" but i wonder what instrument she's proficient with
the entire cast minus little dwarf and wackysacky would make a good BM band
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Bowl-tan would make for a decent amplifier. Thankfully no one cares about Ariel so I don't have to make stuff up here.
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I just realized that apart from Fishface and the Tsukumos the entire cast's got quite a significant amount of red on them. Funny, eh?
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I didn't think anyone could dethrone Patchouli Knowledge as my favorite Touhou character.
Raiko Horikawa comes close. VERY close. Plus, the fact that she's friendly to whoever beats her
hints that we might see even more of her in the future.
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Maybe I'm oblivious but I still haven't heard any news about an official English patch.
The translations are all on touhouwiki but the endings are kept in the dark for good reason.
But anyhow, I screencapped the endings, edited with Paint and added my own translations (with the help of the language bar and online dictionaries) and thought I'd post them here in case anyone's curious.
I beat the game in normal for the endings, except for SakuyaB, which I had to clear in Easy.
...
SakuyaB.
Why.
With my level of playing, I was able to clear Extra with SakuyaA, but not clear Normal with SakuyaB. Must have to do with the uselessless of her bomb.
Before you actually read the endings, let me just throw out there that I'm nowhere near proficient in Japanese, and I've noticed a few grammatical errors in my translations just now - nothing serious btw - (only to realize how half-hearted I must have been.)
Needless to say, SPOILERS ALERT:
[edible]Thank you for the contribution, but I must apologize - ZUN does not like touhou endings published outside the constraints of the game itself, so I needed to truncate your post.[/edible]
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SakuyaB.
Why.
SakuyaB is the shottype you pick when you want to show off how great you are. Easily the most handicapped shot in the game, with the compensation of gratuitous amounts of scoring. The unfocused shot is honestly fine. The only real benefit the focused shot carries aside from more point values is the fact that the weird arc can shoot behind Sekibanki's head, which is minimal at best. SakuyaB is a poor person's ReimuB, but ReimuB is an even poorer version of MarisaB. SakuyaB is...hilarious to attempt lunatic 1ccs with.
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There will be neither Christians nor Satanists in Touhou.
Christianity in my Touhou...?
The only thing I remember of Christianity was when Ellen said to Yumemi, if she was Christian from the crosses she used as danmaku
Isn't it sad, Sacchin?
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3623/7d37.png)
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Needless to say, SPOILERS ALERT:
[edible]Thank you for the contribution, but I must apologize - ZUN does not like touhou endings published outside the constraints of the game itself, so I needed to truncate your post.[/edible]
derpp
As expected from a noob to this forum.
In any case, I see the Fandom Community is well-run...
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SakuyaB is the shottype you pick when you want to show off how great you are. Easily the most handicapped shot in the game, with the compensation of gratuitous amounts of scoring. The unfocused shot is honestly fine. The only real benefit the focused shot carries aside from more point values is the fact that the weird arc can shoot behind Sekibanki's head, which is minimal at best. SakuyaB is a poor person's ReimuB, but ReimuB is an even poorer version of MarisaB. SakuyaB is...hilarious to attempt lunatic 1ccs with.
The only shot type I've never been able to clear on Hard. I believe my closest attempt was death by Sukuna's third spell. My latest attempt however is not a single death until High Speed Pounce (and even caught everything without bombing until the third nonspell). Unfortunately High Speed Pounce kind of went...
Death 1: Expected, I haven't exactly mastered dodging the second wave (dodging red bullets while dodging the leftover purples).
Death 2: I go wtf but still tolerable for the run.
Death 3: K screw it. Run over.
Now I can say with absolute certainty if I were playing any other shot type that wouldn't have gone so bad. I'm pretty good (albeit a bit clumsy, hence title) but I'm no Jaimers. I'm Hard Mode skill level and some games Lunatic (even if sloppy). I can at least beat DDC Lunatic!
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I have to beat Lunatic with both SakuyaB and MarisaA, and that's all six Lunatic 1ccs. For some reason, MarisaA seems like more effort has to be put into getting her through Lunatic. (Considerably more than ReimuA and SakuyaA, of course.) Probably because taking out the stage fairies before they all just spew death at you is not done as efficiently as Reimu and Sakuya. Even with ReimuB, clearing Lunatic is pretty simple.
Hitting the POC consistently past stage 3 with MarisaA seems harder, too, even with it being lower. That's the main difficulty in it, but you do get a easier time with Seija. I only tried SakuyaB like twice, but both runs were plagued with horrible mistakes. Maybe I should try it again...
High Speed Pounce...oh, the times I've had with that. The purple bullets are almost not even worth paying attention to below Lunatic, so I prioritize dodging the red bullets first. At most, I find a quick gap in the purple and dodge the red between those. For me, it seems the second set of red bullets are harder to dodge.
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Isn't it sad, Sacchin?
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3623/7d37.png)
Thank you
Though, I'm not sure how sad Sacchin is about this one.
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Okay, so
Raiko is Layla Prismriver.
kthxbai
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Thank you
Though, I'm not sure how sad Sacchin is about this one.
Sacchin in this case stands for Sariel of course, rather than Satsuki.
And I can't find any pictures of Sariel looking sad. That's how little people care.
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Isn't it sad, Sacchin?
Such is the curse of being a PC-98 character - long forgotten with next to no hope of revival. It seems a reference to PC-98 characters in this game either doesn't exist, or someone hasn't dug that much into it yet. I played HRtP only once, and I didn't look into the characters. All I remember was going through like ten levels and then boom! Boss fight.
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Just let them rip in pieces already.
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i saw 3 spinning things that looks like 666 symbol.
Err, those 666 things are actually Japanese symbols called "tomoe"
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Isn't it sad, Sacchin?
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3623/7d37.png)
(http://th04.deviantart.net/fs51/200H/f/2009/338/2/3/Rin_Satsuki_by_Ibereina.png)
It is sad...
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I have to beat Lunatic with both SakuyaB and MarisaA, and that's all six Lunatic 1ccs. For some reason, MarisaA seems like more effort has to be put into getting her through Lunatic. (Considerably more than ReimuA and SakuyaA, of course.) Probably because taking out the stage fairies before they all just spew death at you is not done as efficiently as Reimu and Sakuya. Even with ReimuB, clearing Lunatic is pretty simple.
I just 1cc'ed all shot types on hard and extra. Presently I only 1cc'ed Lunatic on Reimu A and Marisa B. I BARELY beat hard with Sakuya B. Sakuya B for me is like the Marisa B of UFO, it really is for the expert experts and on hard mode it might be as many as 30~100 runs before a 1cc. I dun goofed extra with Sakuya B but after (many) restarts I actually beat Raiko on the first try once I got to her without having screwed up too badly. Third midboss spell was hell (I cannot capture it for crap, even less so with a bomb that does no damage) and I got clipped twice on the fourth nonspell. ANYWAY I am so done with Sakuya B. I barely beat hard, lunatic Sakuya B for me is a pipe dream.
I have a major preference for Reimu A, Sakuya A is my secondary. Love them homings.
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Sakuya B for me is like the Marisa B of UFO, it really is for the expert experts and on hard mode it might be as many as 30~100 runs before a 1cc.
Exactly. Both of them almost seem to be a testament to how underpowered ZUN could make a shottype, and I'm surprised they weren't in SA. It's a gutsy choice, that's for sure. Heavy risk, but the prize...
The second spellcard with the Tsukumos on Extra is maybe 50/50 for me. I always choose to take out Benben, because...she's better than Yatsuhashi. That's why...but nah, I prefer to dodge in-between those wall-bouncing notes in close proximity, until Yatsuhashi's notes that do 360s and other nonsense end up magically hitting me. It feels like one of those spells where you'd just feel better bombing it and not risking a life on it.
I 1cc'ed Lunatic with MarisaA, and now I just have SakuyaB. Cue fun times trying to do that. At least I can make it to Sukuna, until I get clipped somehow. And homing shots all the way. Cheating stages since forever. SakuyaA makes Lunatic into Hard mode, and is probably the easiest shottype to clear it with. I've used ReimuB a bit more than the rest, due to fond memories of using Reimu with needles. However, her sealing needles in this game make me want to cry in a corner. But if I can do half-decent with her, I'll breeze through the game with competent shottypes.
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I personally love Sakuya-A and am currently using her to kill Raiko.
But curvy lasers. ;~; And the midboss makes me want to cry in the corner too. The non-spell is fine, the first spell is a bit difficult (I'm not the expert player) and the second spell :< I always kill Yatsuhashi first because idk I think she's easier but whatever~
This might be a bit off topic, but I hope Touhou 15 is a Phantasmagoria game with more characters to choose from (wishful thinking, whatever...) and the return of the ever-forgotten Medicine and Mima. 3>9>15 makes sense, too. Can't wait for some news.
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SakuyaA was my first to clear extra with. Curving electric bullets brought back memories of Iku...but Raiko doesn't overdo curving lasers, thankfully. For the first spell with these lasers, if you dodge the first wave of lasers, you tend to dodge the second set without moving much, given you are towards the bottom of the screen. Just be wary of the eye-bleeding Miko bullets. The second card with the lasers requires some foresight, since the lasers increase in number per wave. It is really easy to overlook a laser or two in the later stages of the attack, and the blinding bullets don't help. Just be extra careful dealing with those, since you can practice them all day, but in a real run, you are many times more likely to make a mistake.
Can't say I'd be too thrilled on another Phantasmagoria. I barely played the other two. But wouldn't the pattern be 3>9>18? It took the third game for the first one to come out, then 6 more for the next, so 9 for the next one. Like how Marisa was a stage 4 boss for 2>4>8>(theoretically) 16. Mathematical patterns aside, I think it is probably best to wait and see what ZUN has planned, (or is going to plan) otherwise these sequences are going to have us waiting forever for another "x" game.
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Hm, btw, talking about English versions. Maybe it's doesn't really matter at this moment and my suggestion is stupid but anyway.
There is a thpatch English version of the translation which quite a lot of people here don't really like (mostly due to "translation is bad" and "I can't trust some shady auto-updating program") and we have a touhouwiki translation which is considered to be the best one, right? So, my suggestion:
- Get thpatch, install it, take a look at really easy to read files and swap the translation with the one from touhouwiki
- Delete thcrap_update.dll file which is responsible for updating from the thpatch wiki
- Enjoy the game with touhouwiki translation and be safe from auto-updates!
The only "really difficult" part of it is image translation but actually it's not so much to do, I think. No one really knows when (and if ever) there will be the "official" translation of DDC.
What do you think about it?
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Given this iniciattive, I hardly doubt guys at Gensokyo.org will involve in further patches, assuming they are not involved in this one already.
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The only "really difficult" part of it is image translation but actually it's not so much to do, I think. No one really knows when (and if ever) there will be the "official" translation of DDC.
What do you think about it?
This is kind of a non-starter for me. I can't see myself installing an incomplete patch. I disagree that "no one really knows"; all the information is out there, it just needs to be put into the patch. Previous games show this can be done. And when it is, then I'll try this thing, and if it looks good, I'll then delete all the online-access files for it.
Other people can leave the autoupdate stuff in there, if they want a patch that changes with whatever wiki pages for DDC get edited at points in the future. If you want that feature, I think that's totally fine. But for me, installing an English patch requires, at the very least, that the whole game has been English patched.
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This is kind of a non-starter for me. I can't see myself installing an incomplete patch. I disagree that "no one really knows"; all the information is out there, it just needs to be put into the patch. Previous games show this can be done. And when it is, then I'll try this thing, and if it looks good, I'll then delete all the online-access files for it.
Other people can leave the autoupdate stuff in there, if they want a patch that changes with whatever wiki pages for DDC get edited at points in the future. If you want that feature, I think that's totally fine. But for me, installing an English patch requires, at the very least, that the whole game has been English patched.
Not sure that I got the point of what you meant. My thought, in short, is "if you what something - give it a try to do it yourself". There are tools to make it possible (thpatch) and they're easy to use (all text data is open for manual modification), and there are the data which is needed to be put into. Simple and... clear.
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Well, you asked what we thought. So that's my thought: I don't install incomplete patches - they can and have been completed before, and whenever this one's complete, I may try it out, and stay offline. I also said people are free to leave the autoupdate on. Just giving you the input you asked for.
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Given this iniciattive, I hardly doubt guys at Gensokyo.org will involve in further patches, assuming they are not involved in this one already.
They've still yet to update their archive. I'm still waiting warmly. :)
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Well, you asked what we thought. So that's my thought: I don't install incomplete patches - they can and have been completed before, and whenever this one's complete, I may try it out, and stay offline. I also said people are free to leave the autoupdate on. Just giving you the input you asked for.
Ah, this. Well, ok. Actually I didn't really expect that anyone would support this idea.
I just have a feeling that a lot of people feels that Gensokyo has an obligation to make translation, while (I just guess) they didn't promise that they would do it for all future touhou games. There may be valid reasons to stop doing that at some point and it's their right to do so. In the end, everyone waits for something that may never happen and don't try to do it themselves. The reason why I feel that it's a possible scenario is that the replay archive still wasn't updated to support DDC, like I and Minogame earlier mentioned. I don't know for sure but it looks like it can be fixed within an hour but still it wasn't done.
...Whatever. I guess my talking was quite annoying and unreasonable. I just had a terrible day so I could say something harsh though I didn't plan to be mean.
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No, you didn't sound mean. And I'm not waiting exclusively for gensokyo.org, either. I don't care if the president of Syria makes a patch for DDC: I will try any -complete- patch. There just isn't one yet, unfortunately.
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It's been a while since the auto-updating patch got a complete DDC translation, endings, spellcards and music room included, y'know? :derp:
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It's been a while since the auto-updating patch got a complete DDC translation, endings, spellcards and music room included, y'know? :derp:
If the auto-updating patch already supports translation of endings, spellcards and music room (I didn't check it thoroughly but I have a feeling that it does), and TW has translation for the whole game then it's just a matter of time and efforts of several guys to inject the TW text into thpatch. If it doesn't support something then that's another story and my suggestion is invalid and I'm sorry :)
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I think the auto-patch's already complete, at least for DDC. They even got the custom.exe file covered.
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Then I'll have to try it and, if it is complete and competent, delete the autoupdate stuff. Don't need a patch that goes online.
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It's been a while since the auto-updating patch got a complete DDC translation, endings, spellcards and music room included, y'know? :derp:
I've just reread what you posted and noticed that I understood it in a wrong way :)
And it seems that pretty much the whole translation is based on the one from touhouwiki now.
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Well, there are still some differences. The one that I notice the most would be when talking with Sukuna, on Reimu Scenario, Sukuna's mallet is reffered as the "Uchide's Mallet", in Marisa Scenario, is the "Lucky Mallet" and in Sakuya's, "Miracle Mallet"* Nothing that bad, but still...
*DISCLAIMER: The way the mallet is called might be different since I can't recall correctly which one refer to it as that.
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Yep, that's why I added "pretty much". Something like 95% of the text I saw was completely the same with some little differences.
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The auto-updating patch didn't work for me. Installed it and everything, then went to play the game, and nothing was translated. Not to mention several crashes trying to get it to even work.
So I'm just going to wait (and pray) that the usual english patch will come out.
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It sounds like if you didn't choose to add English support. If you did, you suppose to have base_tsa and lang_en folders in thpatch directory of the patch.
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This game still lags on stage 3 like it did in the demo & lags at the start of stage 4, if it wasn't for this I would have unlocked extra by now most likely. I enjoyed what I was able to play which sadly didn't even include the Stage 6 Boss. I can play every other game just fine but this one just has to find a way to lag at the mentioned points in the game. Stage 5 Boss I will get used to with time, the reversing up & down or left & right thing wasn't as fatal as I feared it would be when I discovered it was happening. Stage 4 Boss will need the most practice for me as one of the spells that require you to in a speak of words play jump rope, going through the rows of notes coming from each direction was the harder of the spells I have seen throughout the game. Stages 1-3 all together was easy(especially with Sakuya's Red Text Shot Type) & if it wasn't for lag here & there throughout entire stage 3 would have went pretty much perfectly. Music seems to feel a bit like rehashed themes with a twist here & there atm so I hope another update is made to this game cause I pretty much can't beat the game due to having to guess when & when it isn't lag spiking for whatever reason(mainly on Stage 3). Marisa Yellow Text Shot Type is utterly inferior to her Red Text one in every way & is slightly either worst or better in Sakuya's case but for Reimu I much prefer her Yellow Text Shot Type over the Red Text one. Sakuya's Red Text Shot Type is clearly imo the top Shot Type of the 6 without question though...
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Mind posting (or, failing that, PMing me) your basic system specs? The game still lags for me a bit, but only on Lunatic. The thing is, the same happens in TD. Does it lag for you? I'd like to compare performance.
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I had the same problem, but I set the fps to 1/2 and it fixed it. Not sure if that's the best solution, but it becomes playable at least.
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Tried it, but the drop in smoothness was not worth it, and decided that a bearable frame drop during select few attacks isn't something all that serious.
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Not sure if this is a bug or not, but the arrow bullets on Seija's penultimate spell card: Reverse Bow "Dream Bow of Heaven & Earth" pierce through Marisa B's bomb, making it potentially fatal if you reach it with multiple bombs in stock, as you cannot extend your invulnerability by bombing again until the bomb leaves the screen and sitting inside will not protect you. Plus the bomb makes it harder to see and dodge arrows.
Since the card is rather difficult and completely random, you might want to empty your stock on previous patterns and just attempt to capture it with no bombs.
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Not sure if this is a bug or not, but the arrow bullets on Seija's penultimate spell card: Reverse Bow "Dream Bow of Heaven & Earth" pierce through Marisa B's bomb, making it potentially fatal if you reach it with multiple bombs in stock, as you cannot extend your invulnerability by bombing again until the bomb leaves the screen and sitting inside will not protect you. Plus the bomb makes it harder to see and dodge arrows.
Since the card is rather difficult and completely random, you might want to empty your stock on previous patterns and just attempt to capture it with no bombs.
In the card, the arrows fly through the screen multiple times, warping from the top to the bottom, with increasing speed. If the arrows are destroyed, it will ruin the card for a long time. So, the arrows are made to be indestructible, which make it difficult to bomb through by MarisaB.
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Also worth mentioning is that Sukuna's 5th spellcard, Wall of Issun, (Not too comfortable with the English names until I get the official translation...but that's just me) also has non-erasable bullets. The walls cannot be canceled by a bomb, but the blue/red orbs can be. While this works as a normal bomb would for MarisaB and clears those orbs, the effect is interesting for SakuyaB. Her bomb will not stop Sukuna from shooting more waves, but they will stay in place for the bomb's duration. This creates real walls in the spellcard that are impossible to dodge depending on how fast she's shooting them, unless you pass through the waves before the bomb's invulnerability wears off.
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This has been bugging me for a bit now: Is it just me, or is Flying Head "Dullahan Night" actually easier on Lunatic than on Hard? I seem to randomly get walled in on Hard, but on Lunatic, it rarely causes a problem because the bullets clear out faster.
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Is it just me, or is Flying Head "Dullahan Night" actually easier on Lunatic than on Hard?
Sekibanki's spells become even easier? There must be a law against that.
From my experience, Hard still feels below Lunatic, but not by much. However, I think the Normal version tops Hard and Lunatic, because the lasers don't cross on your position, which takes up more space in between the lanes. And then the temptation to stand still to graze the lasers kicks in...so I risk much more in Normal than the higher difficulties.
...But it's all still relatively simple.