You know what? I think all the Taoism members has probally the weirest set of powers (if one of lamer ones). I already explained Futo and Tojiko, Miko's pwoer is to hear ten people at once, which isn't a bad ability to a ruler, especially if it means she can tell their desires, but on combat standpoint, yeah, and then there's Seiga. Even though her ability is ability to pass through walls, this doesn't eman she becomes intangible. Hell,she herself doesn't have the ability by her own, she has to use her hairpin to cut holes in surfaces to walk through them. So unless she controls her powers through her hairpin, her power isn't evne her own.
I've been assuming that Miko's power does actually have combat applications, at least against some opponents. It seems to work sort of like mind reading, so if she's good enough at interpreting the desires of her opponents she can probably use that information to extrapolate things like their weaknesses and fighting style. Still kind of lame compared to Byakuren's "be Superman" power, but it's got a lot of potential.Miko's ability might also be of good use in a fith with, say, a large number of spectators (i.e. Hopeless Masquerade). Because if she can pick up several people talking at once with her super-sensitive hearing, she may be able to hear something useful, like "Whoa, check it out! The witch is sneaking up behind the Taoist!" With this, she may have full awareness of her surroundings during a battle.
This thread is actually a great idea.You know, I'd love to see a story where removing her ribbon would turn her into an incredibly powerful youkai, both in terms of magical and physical strength... but wouldn't change her natural ability at all
Rumia actually interested me for quite a bit. Her ability to manipulate darkness is something anyone would think "woah, badass" when hearing it, yet she's ridiculous in every way when using that power. (Oh hey I can myself blind!) I think it's the reverse case of most powers in Touhou; While others sound simple and yet, can tap into the philosophical or more complicated interpretation of their powers, Rumia is just a counter to us, creative players. That's right, controlling darkness is actually crappy because darkness isn't even a thing; It's just a lack of light. Rumia can basically remove light, and isn't immune to her own powers in any way. It makes so much sense that it becomes unlogical.
The one ability I've never been able to wrap my head around in Yuugi's: Controlling unexplainable phenomena. Seriously, what the hell is that? ???I'm sure it's a metaphor for something.
Why does Miko's power need to have combat applications? It's like being able to multitask talking to 10 people isn't ridiculous already, without the ability to hurt someone. lol, kinda JK, I know this is just and easy avenue of creativity.I always thought that Komachi had the ability to manipulate coins :V
I love Komachi's power so I wrote way too many thoughts on them. You can read that here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13912.msg924547.html#msg924547).
Komachi can appear to duplicate herself to some extent. Lets say you were on earth and watching Komachi stand on the surface of the sun (deal with it). Suddenly, Komachi appears next to you. You and Komachi could then watch Komachi on the sun for 8 minutes before she uses her power to appear on earth. That's because the light from the sun, which bounces off of Komachi and travels to earth, takes 8 minutes before you on earth can see it.
Because light is the fastest thing in the universe, the speed of light can also be called the speed limit of information. This is important because while you and Komachi watch Komachi on the sun, any experiment you could think to preform (without magic) would tell you that Komachi is both on the sun, and standing next to. Incidnetly, watching Komachi on the sun might be the only experiment you could preform. Ultimately, as far as you're non-magical self is concerned, Komachi would be making an discontinuous trip through time, 8 minutes into the past.
That thread is pretty much this one, but with some cool conversations already contained.
EDIT: Oh, I guess Faster the Light Travel is kinda a thing though, so maybe that could prove Komachi isn't on the sun in a relativistic sense.
Most likely. If you died by bungee jumping, then a fish jumps in your face, causing you to skyrocket into the blades of a helicopter that had gotten thousands of miles off-course due to a storm, that'd be pretty damn miraculous. Miracles aren't inherently good or bad, just miraculous.Sanae can be a bad girl =o
@Imosa My mind is full of what after reading both of your posts.I don't understand. You wanted to know what Komachi's powers were like and I give an explanation of what I think her powers are like. Here people talk about how Miko's power would be used in a fight, and I talk about how Komachi's power can be used for time travel. It just so happens that in order to understand how Komachi's power is used for time travel, you need to know about the speed of light, and a bit about what it means to travel through time.
Really, where both of these threads focus on character's abilities, we ain't in this thread to question physics of the powers. Like, I am not going to question Suika's powers over density on physics level, but how she can manipulate density period (wich include population density). We also give our own thoughts and the way we see them, and even give characters powers if any one is interest (especially with PC-98 people)
The one ability I've never been able to wrap my head around in Yuugi's: Controlling unexplainable phenomena. Seriously, what the hell is that? ???
I interpreted it super literally as unexplainable phenomena of the "Oh shit, it's raining boulders!" variety.
Keine's ability is explained uh somewhere. I can't remember where. It is for the most part an ability of illusion.
History, in essence, is the collection of events from the point of view of whoever is writing down these events. The recollection of history is the understanding of these events learned from the history previously written down.
Keine's ability as a hakutaku is that she is the history-writer. She writes down the history of people, places, events, and the affected parties "learn" of this history, and as such believe this is what really happened. However, this doesn't affect their previous knowledge, merely what they will learn. Keine's human form devours history, in that she can remove history that has been written down. Because she transforms every full moon, Keine can reliably delete history and then rewrite it within the span of a month, or write down history and then delete it as she wishes. In IN, she hides the human village's existence by deleting its history in order to defend it from potential threats. By the Extra stage, she rewrites this history, and the human village appears again.
It's a metaphor for people writing down history and other people later learning that history by reading it. While people don't literally read it, I would think the effects are permanent in the sense that the affected party learns of the history and behaves as if it's true, until conflicting information might reveal contradictions and reveal the "truth". You know, like how history works.
We aren't aware of any other Hakutaku in Gensokyo as far as I know, but somebody had to provide that half of Keine's genes at some point. It's possible her power isn't actually that exclusive after all. That's scary.
well miracles and fate actually affect reality and don't really have the capacity to be contested so
Unrelated to powers discussion, but Keine's therianthropy is implied by Perfect Memento in Strict Sense to be acquired (i.e. cursed, enchanted, having a magic spell cast on them), not hereditary. Hereditary therianthropes assume a full animal form while acquired therianthropes still have a human shape. Article from PMiSS. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Lycaony)
/me flips buses
It's a metaphor for people writing down history and other people later learning that history by reading it. While people don't literally read it, I would think the effects are permanent in the sense that the affected party learns of the history and behaves as if it's true, until conflicting information might reveal contradictions and reveal the "truth". You know, like how history works.
Keine: Most powerful ability in Touhou?Eh, not really. Again, Yukari could see the village and the villagers normally, so it clearly doesn't affect some people (dunno if Yukari would be affected by Keine's hakutaku powers, though), and it can't really affect the real world in the "reality warping" sense.
If I'm not mistaken, it was said somewhere that she had to wait until she was in her hakutaku form to "restore" the village, so that'd be another indication of her abilities being permanent; her human form "erased" that part of history, and her hakutaku form had to "re-write" it.Did you miss the part where I said that her human form devours history and her hakutaku form creates history and this is exactly what happened with IN
Did you miss the part where I said that her human form devours history and her hakutaku form creates history and this is exactly what happened with IN
I don't understand. You wanted to know what Komachi's powers were like and I give an explanation of what I think her powers are like.Well, you gave them in a way my brains cannot procress all the stuff you wrote down. Its hard to talka bout science that way, not because they cannot fit explaining sutff, but because most people don't have the proper knowledge to understand all the stuff.
I also remember it being stated that Keine's abilities do not effect the Hieda Family's Gensokyo Chronicles. It says so in the wiki but I'm not sure what the source is.Hmm, interesting. I am guessing Keine's powers are absolute UNLESS there is something overruling it. Yukari would manipulate border of truth and lies to see pass Keine's ability and it would be possible that Gensokyo Chronicles has Akyuu's ability to remember everything she hears in written form.
Sounds about right. And that power in the hands of one person, with unlimited revision credits, seems to beat the pants off of silly ol' miracles or fate any day of the week.
We aren't aware of any other Hakutaku in Gensokyo as far as I know, but somebody had to provide that half of Keine's genes at some point. It's possible her power isn't actually that exclusive after all. That's scary.
Certainly arguable a bunch of ways, but in my book global (or at least, Gensokyo-wide) area of effect and seemingly very few drawbacks make up for the techically much more directly powerful effects a lot of other abilities have.
Of course, how many people in Gensokyo can really prove her wrong? I doubt many people outside of Human Village really keep track of any sort of history. As such, if she changes something about history, there are few people who can really object her.
Of course, how many people in Gensokyo can really prove her wrong? I doubt many people outside of Human Village really keep track of any sort of history. As such, if she changes something about history, there are few people who can really object her. Maybe I shouldn't had used "absolute" word, but I didn't think of any other word to use.
Yukari would manipulate border of truth and lies to see pass Keine's abilityYukari wasn't actively doing anything; she didn't seem to realise it had changed at all. Seeing through barriers is part of her powers.
Well, you gave them in a way my brains cannot procress all the stuff you wrote down. Its hard to talka bout science that way, not because they cannot fit explaining sutff, but because most people don't have the proper knowledge to understand all the stuff.Well, if you have any questions I'd be happy to try and explain some more. Its an interesting subject and I'd love to share it.
Question, does she return with the memories of her previous incarnation or does she start her life by reading the Gensokyou chronicles or does she never read them and just continue writing history? Further more, is there any kind of stated reason why Shiki lets her reincarnate?Well, I doubt most ghosts really forget their past lives once they die to the point where they just conintue their daily lives until they realise or accpet they are dead. So really, Akyuu's powers would make sure that she remembers everything once she reincarnates. And I don't think there is any reason why Shiki just lets it pass. Maybe her writing Gensokyo Chronicles is important job so she lets her to reincarnate when she needs to update it?
Question, does she return with the memories of her previous incarnation or does she start her life by reading the Gensokyou chronicles or does she never read them and just continue writing history? Further more, is there any kind of stated reason why Shiki lets her reincarnate?I think she's born with them, since it says on the wiki that memories from her earlier incarnations are unclear (though she can still remember some events from those incarnations clearly). As to why Shiki lets her reincarnate, I'm not sure, but maybe she finds Akyuu's power helpful to humans, so she reincarnates her.
Of course, how many people in Gensokyo can really prove her wrong? I doubt many people outside of Human Village really keep track of any sort of history. As such, if she changes something about history, there are few people who can really object her. Maybe I shouldn't had used "absolute" word, but I didn't think of any other word to use.Going off of that, I suppose that the ability to see through her illusions is based solely on how knowledgeable you are, rather than how powerful you are. So Yukari just saw the village because of her age-old wisdom and knowledge. But as you said, not many other people could prove her wrong otherwise. Perhaps the more dim-witted youkai would easily be fooled by the altered history, and just wander elsewhere to find their food.
But I thought at one point Kasen's main ability is stated to be "controlling animals"?. It was in the official WaHH webpage if I remember correctly.
But I thought at one point Kasen's main ability is stated to be "controlling animals"?. It was in the official WaHH webpage if I remember correctly.The wording isn't the same as it usually would be. It does say 動物を導く能力を持って, but not say 動物を導く程度の能力, which is how abilities are always formally stated. Other characters who don't have such a thing would be the Wakatsukis, Maribel and Renko. Maybe a few others.
Probably a lot of people, unless she does a really thorough job of covering her tracks. Gensokyo seems to be full of super-ancient entities who are aware of all sorts of little details that could contradict her constructed histories. She's aware of those details too in her Hakutaku form, but accounting for all of them would be quite a chore.
On the subject of Keine, I'm curious about Akyuu, I imagine her resurrection must have something to do with her immunity.
She can erase history when human, and when she becomes a hakutaku, she can create history.
Gensokyo's history is one created by her (*2).
Regarding history, things do not become history merely by happening.
Things do not become history unless someone records it as history.
She can fabricate history that didn't happen, or conversely, erase from history incidents which actually did happen.
2: The Hieda family's Gensokyo Chronicles is beyond her powers. Thus, it is not her history but ours.
I'm not sure if this fits here, but how does the eastern-westerns-style magician-thing work? Does the western ones use an artifact while the eastern ones use the elements?There is eastern-western magician split in Touhou? I though the split was either you are born as Magician or you train yourself to become one and become an youkai once you have trained enough.
There is eastern-western magician split in Touhou? I though the split was either you are born as Magician or you train yourself to become one and become an youkai once you have trained enough.Sorry about that, I read that in the wiki and I thought I could use some elaboration. It's just a split in terms of aesthetics, I think, or maybe in methods?
As for Yuugi, until ZUN explains her ability better I'll keep believing that Yuugi can interfere with supernatural power itself, including the one the other touhous need to do their magic."Until you can prove me wrong on something that will likely never be elaborated on I'll believe what I want to believe based on absolutely no evidence but a total misconception that was totally just pointed out on the first page"
manipulating emotions may make you feel happy, sad, scared, angry, but it will not affect your decisionsDoesn't make much sense. Manipulating somebody's emotions is bound to affect their decision-making in a huge way.
As for Yuugi, until ZUN explains her ability better I'll keep believing that Yuugi can interfere with supernatural power itself, including the one the other touhous need to do their magic.
Sekibanki, for example, is actually really good in danmaku battle as her ability to detach her head allows her to fire danmaku from her head and the body.
That is not what her ability says, so why would you believe this? Why infer something that does not exist? This is akin to saying Cirno can manipulate fire.Yeah, we can only create powers if characters lack any.
I was thinking a little bit how each character boss battles go and I came to thinking that what if the strenght of charactyer's powers determent how much they can use in danmaku battle.I don't think there's a real limit on how influential a character's power can be on their spell cards. The point of Spell Card duels is that they're supposed to be beautiful, not merely that you wipe the opponent out. Usually it just so happens that the more powerful youkai have less easily-representable abilities, but since it's all danmaku anyways, it doesn't matter.
Yeah, we can only create powers if characters lack any.Well, the thread's "point" as far as I'm aware is to discuss how the characters' powers work, as you've laid out. We don't have to be talking about things in "this is true"/"this isn't", but when we already have canonical information about their abilities, it seems a bit ridiculous to make stuff up that doesn't fit. I mean sure you can decide to continue saying Yuugi's ability really is to "manipulate the supernatural" whatever that means, you'll just be wrong for the same reason saying Sanae's ability is to breathe fire. As long as it's clear when we're talking about idle speculation and when we're talking about actual information on the subject, there's nothing wrong with talking about ambiguous abilities.
...What, did you think this thread point was to say 100% canon?
"Until you can prove me wrong on something that will likely never be elaborated on I'll believe what I want to believe based on absolutely no evidence but a total misconception that was totally just pointed out on the first page"Because doing/being everything Confucius never talked about is terribly clear, yes.
yeah ok bud have fun
Given the way ZUN thinks, my current bet is that he wanted Yuugi's power to be really awesome, to go with his basic idea for Yuugi (awesome onee-san), but couldn't be arsed to think on something specific. So he wrote her ability in an even more enigmatic way, and left it at that."Really awesome"? Couldn't be arsed to think of something? Having a complicated reference to Confucius is somehow not specific? This is utterly not ZUN; it sounds more like how fans will look at the series' surface level and go "oh that ZUN what a silly drunkard".
On spellcards, maybe I am overanalyzing stuff. I dunno. Though I wasn't really thinking about gameplay and how their powers would actually seen in it. And does Yukari use her powers in her spellcards? Note, I am not counting fighting games as I think the Spellcard Rule is slightly lifted from them to allow character to use their powers more freely. For example, the rule of "Attacks relying on physical strength are not to be repeated" seems to be ignored in fighting games.
It is not sure whether or not she is using her ability to manipulate fate consciously, but it is said misfortune will befall those who are merely in her vicinity, and she can cause great change in the state of the daily lives of others with but a word.And the part about how the reporter's fate was supposedly changed from "die like an animal" to something else.
For example, becoming more likely to encounter rare things (*2).
Speaking of Kogasa though, what does her power do? I mean could she pass through walls if it would be suprising? Or is she limited to just shouting boo?It is pretty much implied that Kogasa's "ability" isn't even an ability, just a thing she is assorted with so much. Considering that she's karakasa obake, I think giving her "ability" would be seen as act of trying to give her some sort of purpose.
Shoutoku is simply female in the touhouverse. Her profile always refers to her as female, even in her backstory, nobody comments on her having been male once (one would think that Futo or Seiga would refer to her as "him" before her awakening if she was male, for instance), and the only place that says that Shoutoku was male in-universe is Sanae's school book, which's... a school book. I remember cuc once making a good explanation for this (that I terribly misinterpreted at the time); if I recall it right, the whole deal with Miko is basically ZUN's way of commenting on how unreliable history can be (there are scholars that doubt Shoutoku's very existence; if even that is uncertain, how can we even know his true gender for sure?)It's the same way Type Moon justifies Saber and other heroes. Their history is so vague so why not make them a woman?
Who will ever thought that it can make her "fly" out of reality? How does that work?
If abilities really are self-stated, then the characters being capable of doing more with them than their wording imply can be simply explained as the character giving an improper or very vague description of their power (see: Futo calling her mish-mash of shinto and taoist magic "Feng Shui").
I don't believe it works that way. She is able to remove herself from reality when she uses Musou Tensei (Fantasy Heaven), yeah. However, it may not be related to her ability to fly at all. Just like how she can summon gods, which is unrelated to her ability to fly."With Reimu's ability to float, she floats from everything in reality and becomes invincible."
"With Reimu's ability to float, she floats from everything in reality and becomes invincible."
-Imperishable Night's description of Fantasy Nature
Her ability to warp around would also be result of this ability. Her "Barrier" spells in IN would be Yukari givng Reimu a hand. So unless her ability to fly is JUST that, she might have the worst listed ability of them all, as EVERY ONE can fly anyway.
Onto a question, do you people think Meiling uses her chi manipulation in danmaku battles?
For example, Yorihime ignored Spellcard rule back in SSiB and we all know how that turned out to our heroines.
First of all, Reimu acts as an youkai exterminator. As such, spells like Fantasy Seal -Blink- and Evil Sealing Circle sound like exterminator techniques before they were adapted into spellcards. Heck, Marisa points out that Fantasy Heaven was originally something what Reimu would just do before it was made into a Spellcard.
On Yorihime and her using her powers, the question is not "who is holding back" but "who isn't holding back". For example, where Reimu isn't that skillful on summoning gods, she still can do that (I think she did summon atleast one tu curse one of her ofudas in SSiB). Heck, Suwako can control multiple cursed gods, though she mainly only channels their powers. Yorihime just summons any god she likes (like the freaking Amaterasu) sounds something which would be toned down, if not banned from Spellcard battles
Considering that Kanako needed Reimu's help in summoning gods, I would say that Reimu is pretty good at it, compared to Kanako, Suwako or Sanae.Even though I think you're basically right, Reimu can channel and communicate with basically any god she learns to. They needed her help because none of them could summon a very specific god, not because she's "better" at summoning or something. Suwako controlling the Mishaguji isn't really comparable either way, Kanako doesn't "summon" other gods and Sanae only channels the powers of her own two, she doesn't summon them. So you're right, but trivially so.
You aren't supposed to go all out on spell card duels and you aren't supposed to use overwhelming force or something like that.Marisa complained that Suika's danmaku often becomes less danmaku than it does a blob of bullets smashing the opponent to bits. Basically it's a complaint about her superdense attacks.
Suika received a complaint from Marisa concerning the latter.
Suwako controlling the Mishaguji isn't really comparable either way,Is Mishaguji term for cursed gods or is it just a particular god? Just asking, as if Kanaki needed Reimu's help to summon gods, it would just mean she wants a god what isn't one of the cursed ones.
Is Mishaguji term for cursed gods or is it just a particular god? Just asking, as if Kanaki needed Reimu's help to summon gods, it would just mean she wants a god what isn't one of the cursed ones.Curse gods, not cursed gods.
I think it's already been discussed, but I think Keine's abilities regarding history are based on substituting timelines with illusionary realities. If you think about it
Can she control animals? I got the impression she could just talk to them and was good at convincing them to do things, but I don't remember anything suggesting that she has the supernatural ability to control them.Kasen's power (which isn't necessarily her "power", but the closest we've got) isn't to control animals, but to guide animals. She actually says as much in the chapter of WaHH about the gun-badgers or whatever. "It's my power and my duty to guide the animals of the mountain onto the correct path." So basically her power is to tell animals what they should do, and they listen because she's a very reasonable person who they respect.
Nukekubi detatch their heads don't they? Maybe it's poking fun at people who get the distinction between them wrong. Lafcadio Haern did it and it is apparenty a very common mistake.ZUN was only consufed during the time he made Sekibanki. Why he didn't change her species, I don't know. Also TrueShadow, why would she have a power what would pretty much counteract her entire species' power? Really weird if you ask me.
She also does the neck stretching thing. At the same time.She does the elactic neck thing as a spellcard. A neck made out of danmaku. The neck not being even attached to her body. I think the spellcard is just relfecting back to her species instead of her actually having that thing.
Mmm... I'd like to post something on this thread...I don't think anyone ever doubted the usefulness of Koishi's ability.
Koishi's ability is actually extremely useful. Having it could open multiple possibilities... I know that if I had it, I'd probably rob a bank and then escape from there unnoticed. Nobody would remember me anymore anyway :V
Koishi's ability is actually extremely useful. Having it could open multiple possibilities...
On Yorihime and her using her powers, the question is not "who is holding back" but "who isn't holding back". For example, where Reimu isn't that skillful on summoning gods, she still can do that (I think she did summon atleast one tu curse one of her ofudas in SSiB). Heck, Suwako can control multiple cursed gods, though she mainly only channels their powers. Yorihime just summons any god she likes (like the freaking Amaterasu) sounds something which would be toned down, if not banned from Spellcard battles
Good luck learning how to manually beat your heart before you die. <3
I thought her ability only made her forgettable in the same manner as a particularly boring background event is forgettable. If she robbed a bank that wouldn't be background at all, the same way getting in a fight with the protagonist of MoF wasn't background so they remember her.
I'm not the right person to say this since I know very little about cardiology, but I don't think subconsciously would be the correct way to express how someone's heartbeat is performed. I'd replace the expression with automatically/involuntarily instead. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't think that's the way it works. I imagine that any event, whether they are boring or not, would be forgotten if it was centered around Koishi. As for the bank, perhaps people would remember that the bank was robbed, but not who robbed it. If she is only forgotten given the circumstance that she was part of a boring background event, then anyone else has Koishi's ability as well since as long as you don't cause a significant impact in the world, you will always be forgotten by the others.
if you were the cashier being robbed because of the terror and because your're directly interacting with her.
ZUN was only consufed during the time he made Sekibanki. Why he didn't change her species, I don't know. Also TrueShadow, why would she have a power what would pretty much counteract her entire species' power? Really weird if you ask me.
I just can't put Terror and Koishi in the same sentence in my mind.
Koishi: Give me all your money! c:
Cashier: Awwwww <3
Koishi: Rawr, I'm a Koishisaur!
Cashier: D'awwwwwwrrrr <3
I don't think that's the way it works. I imagine that any event, whether they are boring or not, would be forgotten if it was centered around Koishi.
Why ban it? Just make it a spellcard (something like "God Sign: Amaterasu")
We'll have Yorihime slashing around the screen while Amaterasu spams lasers from the top.
I don't think Koishi's ability would be very convenient at all, since it comes with losing the ability to control yourself. She isn't separately creating an aura of unnoticeability, it's a direct effect of her having closed off her mind, even from herself. So while plausibly you could rob a bank with it (Futo didn't even notice her while they were fighting, in Koishi's route), you'd also lose the ability to decide to rob a bank. It's kind of nightmarish, actually.Mind you, I think they are talking about Koishi's power on its own rather than Koishi herself. If she had the ability to manipulate subconsious without needing to close her own, she would do anyting she wants.
Mind you, I think they are talking about Koishi's power on its own rather than Koishi herself. If she had the ability to manipulate subconsious without needing to close her own, she would do anyting she wants.Well, at that point, you're no longer talking about her power. Although to be fair, that's how most of the characters' powers are usually interpreted. Fans read "power over X" and take it literally, when usually it's quite specific.
Well, at that point, you're no longer talking about her power. Although to be fair, that's how most of the characters' powers are usually interpreted. Fans read "power over X" and take it literally, when usually it's quite specific.I am saying how I see it. The discussion about Koishi's powers seemed to be more about her pwoers itself rather than Koishi and her relation with her powers. I had no part on it, so don't blame me.
Also, "abilities are self-reported". That one footnote explained so much.
Now thinking some character abilities. I theorize that Remilia's power is kind of like red texting. If anyone has seen or play Umineko before, they should know what this means.I tend to compare Remilia's powers with Ta'veren from the Wheel of Time, the world twists around her, and coincidence reaches out to absurdity. Whether good or bad it just happens. I now imagine a sitcom involving the SDM family trying not to get swept up in Remilia's whirlpool of coincidence. Like Chance in a Millionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_in_a_million (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_in_a_million)
From time to time, she will red text something, and it is going to be the truth.
And if that one part was aimed at me, I know that. I know that not all of Akyuu's writing is 100% true and shouldn't taken as the final answer to everything.That last line had nothing to do with Akyuu or her reliability (frankly I think she's quite reliable because it's obvious when she's not). It's just a fact that abilities are self-reported. The "title" of the ability, in the form of "enough power to X", is chosen by the person in question, and submitted to Akyuu (and happens to be exactly the same as what we see in their profiles). It says more about the character's personality and how they see themselves than it does about how the power works. It's like a self-introduction.
I disagree. Hopeless Masquerade seems to imply otherwise. Characters pick a fight with Koishi, because of her popularity.
So, my guess is that if something were to cause Koishi to be in the foreground, it is unlikely that she would be forgotten.
心が読めないせいで嫌われる事は無くなったが、自分の心もすっからかんなので、誰からも好かれなくなってしまった。視界に入らない限り存在感が無い。ややもすれば彼女が目に映っていても、存在していない様に思ってしまうだろう（＊1）。視界から消えれば、すぐに忘れ去られてしまう。
Since she cannot read minds, there is no longer any reason for others to hate her, but since her own mind is completely empty, she can no longer be liked by anyone either. Her presence cannot be felt by anyone unless she has entered their direct field of vision. And even if one can see her with their eyes, she will still be thought of as non-existent(*1). When she leaves one's sight, she is immediately forgotten.
Now thinking some character abilities. I theorize that Remilia's power is kind of like red texting. If anyone has seen or play Umineko before, they should know what this means.
From time to time, she will red text something, and it is going to be the truth.
I am saying how I see it. The discussion about Koishi's powers seemed to be more about her pwoers itself rather than Koishi and her relation with her powers.
Have Remilia ever actually used her powers?Maybe yes, maybe not. It's really unknown. Akyuu speculates on her "Sakuya was a vampire hunter" theory that she used it on Sakuya ("The vampire, wanting Sakuya's power for herself, spared her and gave her a new name, which also gave her a completely opposite fate"). And in Remilia's profile, there was commentary from a dude that got badly hurt and was helped by someone in the SDM; Akyuu mentions that maybe his fate of "dying like an animal" was altered (with a footnote even saying that "epending on how she changed fate, you might even become a half-human, half-youkai").
If characters picks fights with Koishi because of her popularity, then that means she was indeed not forgotten, which makes the above passage contradictory. So I don't know anymore.Hopeless Masquerade is special because Koishi has Kokoro's mask of hope. Which she picked up some time before the story started. So technically she's borrowing a facet of Kokoro's power to become popular. Her ending explicitly tells us that
Hopeless Masquerade is special because Koishi has Kokoro's mask of hope. Which she picked up some time before the story started. So technically she's borrowing a facet of Kokoro's power to become popular. Her ending explicitly tells us thatit would be impossible otherwise (ie: she will revert back to her normal state if/when she loses the mask).
Red Texting is an interesting idea I hadn't thought of. I now want to see Remilia as Beatrice and Reimu as Battler in a fangame or something. It would be awesome.
Have Remilia ever actually used her powers?
I know that she can manipulate fate, but I've never seen a situation that made it explicit that she used said power. The only thing I've really seen her using was Red Magic, the Gungnir spear and things of the nature.
If characters picks fights with Koishi because of her popularity, then that means she was indeed not forgotten, which makes the above passage contradictory. So I don't know anymore.
Hopeless Masquerade is special because Koishi has Kokoro's mask of hope. Which she picked up some time before the story started. So technically she's borrowing a facet of Kokoro's power to become popular. Her ending explicitly tells us that
No, we never see that. We only see reported events of what could be Remilia using her powers. For what its worth, Remilia always gets what she wants in the mangas, 3 Fairies, Silent Sinner in Blue, etc.
Huh, really? Her invasion failed and she got beaten up in SSiB.She got to go the moon, experience a fun fight, visit the sea, and came out of it with a pool party. It really depends on what her goals are, doesn't it? I mean, if she wasn't at the center of everyone else's manipulations she would have spent all that time sitting around being bored instead.
Question, can Mamizou's power allow her to alter matter a bit? One of her moves in HM is her taking a page from SMB3 and transforming into a statue to slam down into her opponent. And considering that she comes out of the statue it means she really did transform into a statue. Also, she once transformed int a bonfire, but I doubt she would mimic the heat of it.Her SoPM profile claims that she can't change the properties of anything, so it's fundamentally just an illusion. Well, it's not like falling on top of someone wouldn't hurt, statue or not. I think a more troubling ability would be her teapot spellcard. But, gameplay aside, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be 100% illusion. I doubt she can even change the real size or shape of things.
taking a page from SMB3no :I
Moving on, another thing what wonders me is that can how many thingsshe can really change the appearance of? Like, MamiReimu's spellcard in HM has her flying around while dropping Yin Yang Orbs. Mind you, those are pretty much exclusive to Reimu, So does Mamizou actually just use normal large danmaku but changes it to appear like Yin Yang Orbs? and what else can she do with it? Can she make water look like wine just to give silly example?If she can make herself look and feel like a bonfire, then I don't see why she can't do pretty much anything. Subject to her total magical power of course (like I doubt she has particularly long range for it). Akyuu also says she can only change the appearance of things. There has to be something for her illusion to act on. She can't just create hallucinations from nothing.
She got to go the moon, experience a fun fight, visit the sea, and came out of it with a pool party. It really depends on what her goals are, doesn't it? I mean, if she wasn't at the center of everyone else's manipulations she would have spent all that time sitting around being bored instead.Yes it does, and for some period of time she wanted to beat Toyohime. When your power is to control fate you don't compromise with yourself on what things you make happen and what you don't, you just keep making yourself win until you're done.
We're talking about a fight against one of the most powerful beings in the whole setting. Someone who can call the highest gods whenver she wants. Unless Remilia is the goddess of fate, I don't see how she'd change the outcome of that fight.It's a fair point. These absolute statements do throw me for a loop.
It's the same old "people confusing 'ability to to the extent of x' with 'absolute control over x'". She can manipulate fate and change the outcome of certain events; she's not, however, omnipotent, and there are likely several constraints on her ability. It's vague, and not likely to ever be fully explained; but it isn't a "she has to be able to manipulate the existance of everyone everywhere at anytime whenever she wants, or else she's lying" deal.
Yes it does, and for some period of time she wanted to beat Toyohime. When your power is to control fate you don't compromise with yourself on what things you make happen and what you don't, you just keep making yourself win until you're done.
You are mistaken if you think Remilia wanted to beat Yorihime, that was not the point of this trip at all. If Remilia did not stop with her barrage of attacks, Yorihime would likely lose. Instead, she stopped, flew around the moon and gave Yorihime plenty of time to recompose herself.The fact that Reimu literally tried to kill everyone on the moon kind of supports Yorihime's perspective though.
No one who really wants to win would do this. By the way, this is exactly what Yorihime did to Reimu. She never gave Reimu a second chance to do her other shenanigans, after she cleared Reimu's dark summon.
As Drake mentioned, Yorihime did not think this is a game. This is probably because it isn't a game to her. Her duty is to protect the moon from intruders.
The fact that Reimu literally tried to kill everyone on the moon kind of supports Yorihime's perspective though.
Wait, which part was this?The part where she threatened the moon with impurity, which could potentially make the inhabitants impure, which would mean they eventually die.
The part where she threatened the moon with impurity, which could potentially make the inhabitants impure, which would mean they eventually die.
I think the idea of Remilia having absolute control over fate falls flat then you consider that she could have easily been successful during EoSD. She had a plan to fulfill and would probably have no problem using her powers to make it work.
Perhaps Remilia can easily kill Reimu back then, but for what? She may face the other Guardians, Yukari, the Gods, the Dragon... it's next to impossible to walk away unscratched from those, or she even needed to sacrifice her loved ones in order to do it. So it doesn't worth it.
Doesn't Mitori have a pretty useful ability? "Power to prohibit everything and anything"
In that case, she could simply prohibit the enemy of breathing and kill him/her instantly. :V
Well "Prohibit" is still a vague word. Like forbidden or block, if you could do it anyway if you have the guts to. Like Ikari says, it's somesort of law/permission. She can prohibit people to cross a certain road, they'd obey that if it's possible to go other way or they respect her enough. Some bastard can just ignore it and go on. Prohibitions are only effective if the consequences are feared by the audience.
As for Yuyuko's power it's actually much more intimidating when we hear about it, than after we realize that in Gensokyo there are many beings that can be considered immune to her power. Her ability is taht she invokes death in a person by inviting the soul residing inside the body to leave it and go to the Netherworld. Kaguya and Mokou have their concepts of death absolutely erased from existence due to effects of Hourai Elixir so they can't die. Remilia and Flandre are already somewhat "dead" (undead), although we do not know if this counts as having a soul or not. Gods probably would also be unable to die, as they're you know, gods, it can't be possibly so easy. I am not quite sure about youkai - if we can count them as having souls or is soul a concept native only to humans in Gensokyo. And what about celestial beings like Tenshi, shinigami like Komachi, jiang shi as Yoshika, hermits and of course Youmu, a half-ghost? I rather like to think that Yuyuko's power works only on humans, and not on inhuman beings - that would kinda justify why Yuyuko killed herself instead of using her power to eliminate any threats against fellow humans that came from the youkai of Gensokyo.Celestials and Hermits are trying to avoid death in the form of kishin attacks so, I think its pretty fair to say that they can die, in the human sense. Yoshika is pretty much a zombie right? Sounds dead. Youmu's soul is the ghost flying around her so she still has a soul, but I'm not sure how effective it would be for Yuyuko to invite it to the netherworld since youmu already lives there (no?).
As for Yuyuko's power it's actually much more intimidating when we hear about it, than after we realize that in Gensokyo there are many beings that can be considered immune to her power. Her ability is taht she invokes death in a person by inviting the soul residing inside the body to leave it and go to the Netherworld. Kaguya and Mokou have their concepts of death absolutely erased from existence due to effects of Hourai Elixir so they can't die. Remilia and Flandre are already somewhat "dead" (undead), although we do not know if this counts as having a soul or not. Gods probably would also be unable to die, as they're you know, gods, it can't be possibly so easy. I am not quite sure about youkai - if we can count them as having souls or is soul a concept native only to humans in Gensokyo. And what about celestial beings like Tenshi, shinigami like Komachi, jiang shi as Yoshika, hermits and of course Youmu, a half-ghost? I rather like to think that Yuyuko's power works only on humans, and not on inhuman beings - that would kinda justify why Yuyuko killed herself instead of using her power to eliminate any threats against fellow humans that came from the youkai of Gensokyo.We don't know if vampires from this universe are actually undead, so we can't say that Remilia and Flandre would be immune based on that.
Actually, at one point I really believed that Yuyuko's power is similar to that Tohno/Nanaya guy from Tsukihime. They can kill anything as long as it's able to die. Maybe her power affects the victim's concept of death rather than their soul?I think Flandre's power is more similar to the Eyes of Death Perception that Shiki Ryougi/Shiki Tohno have. The difference being that she can make the "death lines" appear on her hand, instead of having to hit them in the target.
So if you do, you will know that she exists, but you'll more than likely forget every meeting you have with her like as if you never met her before, but you know she exists.
I also just read about the Shinto concept of soul. By using an object, it means that you are sharing your "soul" with the object. And when you discard those objects, they still have the soul that you gave them. These souls will grow resentful, and this is what causes those objects to become a tsukumogami.
The claim that immortals couldn't enter the Netherworld was a mistranslation.
and at the end there's a blurb about Yuyuko not being able to kill people who took the Hourai Elixir. It's pretty much unambiguous.
It's incredibly stupid and infuriating because people have very commonly used this to say that Eirin isn't immortal and other such things, similar to how Fonzi was mistaken.
Then blame the misleading info on the wki and mistranslations, not the people who were misled. From those two lines translated, it really does seem that immortals cannot enter and thus know the Netherworld. If it simply means the fact that they cannot get there by natural means - by dying, then it's quite obvious due to the nature of immortal beings. It's like saying "Humans who cannot die, cannot die" duh. This metaphor does sound misleading whether you admit it or not.I'm not blaming you, at least not directly. It is due to misleading interpretations and the influence of other people's mistaken claims, and it's more that I want to stress that I know where you're coming from and it's an understandable mistake even if it's a mistake that I would normally consider dumb. At least you had the good sense to actually ask about it rather than just continue on.
"Kanako's ability specifically refers to the element of Qian (乾), one of the eight trigrams in Taoist philosophy. Qian is associated with creation, leadership, overtness, reliability, and acting first rather than reacting to others. Suwako Moriya's ability to create earth, or Kun (坤), refers to the opposite element".It's both, sort of. But Qian isn't limited nor specific to "sky" or "heaven", and that's the reason why there had to be clarifications of Qian during the Ability fiasco. It's a very odd and nuanced term that means several different things in relation to Kanako, so it would be wrong to translate it as anything. I'm unsettled even leaving it as "Ability: Creating sky" in Kanako's infobox, despite there being a more thorough description right there. It's an ability that means more in its pronouncement than it does mean anything as an actual ability, in a similar fashion to Yuugi.
So it's not like she can literally "create sky". It's basically a metaphor for how proactive she is.
I guess I have problem with metaphorical usage. Like, Suwako can create earth, and it shows, having multiple earth-based moves (yeah yeah, I know it has more meaning than that, but let's first think it in its basic form).SoPM says that the changes in the terrain that she makes are actually done by the curse gods under her command. Doesn't necessarily mean that she can't manipulate the earth by herself, but it seems to imply most of it isn't her direct doing.
It's both, sort of. But Qian isn't limited nor specific to "sky" or "heaven", and that's the reason why there had to be clarifications of Qian during the Ability fiasco. It's a very odd and nuanced term that means several different things in relation to Kanako, so it would be wrong to translate it as anything. I'm unsettled even leaving it as "Ability: Creating sky" in Kanako's infobox, despite there being a more thorough description right there. It's an ability that means more in its pronouncement than it does mean anything as an actual ability, in a similar fashion to Yuugi.Does the same applies to Suwako's ability? In terms of how Kun isn't limited/specific to "earth", I mean.
Anomalies, strength, disorder, and spirits (怪力乱神, kai-ryoku-ran-shin) is a metaphor for unexplainable phenomena that originates from the Analects of Confucius, where one of his disciples said "the Master never talked of anomalies, strength, disorder, or spirits." (子不語怪力亂神) Furthermore, Yuugi's title is "the so-called unexplainable phenomenon".So that would be a no. She obviously has some magical aptitude, but we already know oni aren't exactly huge in the magic department.
More accurately, Confucius did not talk about unnatural things (怪異, strangeness), mysterious powers (勇力, courage), things contrary to reason (悖乱, devious rebellion), and strange things related to god (鬼神, fierce god). In other words, strangeness (怪異), courage (勇力), devious rebellion (悖乱), and fierce god (鬼神) are why 怪力乱神 is referred to as "anomalies, strength, disorder, and spirits." It is appropriately unclear what exactly this ability allows Yuugi to do, since the ability itself is a metaphor for things that cannot be explained.
Her very name, Yuugi (勇儀), might have come from the courage (勇力) that is represented as "strength" in "anomalies, strength, disorder, and spirits."
Her title is 話られる怪力乱神, or "the so-called" unexplainable phenomenon/anomaliesstrengthdisetc. This does little in explaining the ability, but it should be clear that her ability is not meant to be an actual ability, merely an additional link to the Confucius thread present throughout her character profile.
Important: She does not actually manipulate or cause unexplained/supernatural phenomena. This was a huge misconception that stemmed from the translation, and was essentially the main reason why the Ability subsection explaining the phrase was created. 怪力乱神を持つ itself just means "to have", "hold" or "possess". It's currently translated as "wield". No other character ability uses this wording, and is why Iam going to go objectjust objected to the translation in the SoPM article.
So that would be a no. She obviously has some magical aptitude, but we already know oni aren't exactly huge in the magic department.
So that would be a no. She obviously has some magical aptitude, but we already know oni aren't exactly huge in the magic department.
Usually they use the word "Youjutsu", seen in Reimu and Youmu's profiles at various points, and in PMiSS's description of Mokou, among other places, which uses the same "you" as in "youkai". On the other hand, Suika describes herself and Yuugi as using "Jujutsu", which uses the kanji for curse.
Majutsu is clearly just a way of talking about mahou, so she clear uses mahou as well.There is a bit of difference between -jutsu ("techniques") and -hou/-dou (roughly "way").
Youjutsu: The generic term used most often for supernatural powers like Reimu and Youmu and Mokou. Since it includes Reimu it doesn't seem to have negative connotation, right?
My assumption would be that youjutsu is a very broad category that includes majutsu.
Not sure if I completely agree with that. Reimu does have some pretty shady attacks in Hisoutensoku that looks like they belonged to someone evil. I understand it was Meiling's dream, but I believe the attacks themselves are a depiction of what the character in question can do. She also pulls some shady attacks in Silent Sinner in Blue.While I don't really agree with the implication that Reimu's use of youjutsu means it isn't negative-etc, the point is still that youjutsu shouldn't mean a sort of negative-ish power or technique just because it uses the same you from youkai, especially since the character doesn't mean anything negative or shady either. Is there another reason it should?
Until I see users that have little business with Youjutsu use YoujutsuThis too; while I don't necessarily agree that youjutsu is a broader category (seems probable though), this reasoning sounds unfalsifiable.
Jujutsu: Curse arts. Mentioned by Suika in Yuugi's SoPM article. Not sure what it implies.The character 呪, other than "curse", can also mean "spell", as in the magical words you recite or written down in general.
Reimu's Hisoutensoku spell cardThat one is nothing but a result of Meiling's fervent dream. Going by the example of Mamizou's HM midboss cards, it can be argued that this card should be attributed to Giant Catfish or Taisun rather than Reimu, since it's not used by the real her.
Why does the word "youjutsu" appear so often in the IaMP profiles?The context matters. When writing the profiles for his first fighting game, ZUN apparently felt the need to describe each character's magical and physical capacities one by one. "Youjutsu" is used here as the standard word for "magical capacity", while "taijutsu" was used for the later.
東方の場合は、弾幕は魔法であり、妖術であり、得体の知れない力なのです。Here, a younger ZUN used both "youjutsu" and "mahou" together to describe "mysterious magic".
In Touhou's case, danmaku is mahou; it is youjutsu; it is a power of unknowable nature.
While I don't really agree with the implication that Reimu's use of youjutsu means it isn't negative-etc, the point is still that youjutsu shouldn't mean a sort of negative-ish power or technique just because it uses the same you from youkai, especially since the character doesn't mean anything negative or shady either. Is there another reason it should?
That one is nothing but a result of Meiling's fervent dream. Going by the example of Mamizou's HM midboss cards, it can be argued that this card should be attributed to Giant Catfish or Taisun rather than Reimu, since it's not used by the real her.
Here, a younger ZUN used both "youjutsu" and "mahou" together to describe "mysterious magic".
ZUN might have felt the word "mahou" has become so overused as to be meaningless - it's in almost every RPG, after all, so he came to prefer the less popular word "youjutsu", which has the implication of uncanny sorcery, to preserve the sense that the magic is beyond human understanding. That's my theory.
I'm really not sure what you would consider "having little to do with youjutsu". I mean, what does Mokou have to do with youkai?
Whether or not Reimu is shady as an individual, no one's ever challenged her on the grounds of using inappropriate magic (which they constantly do for Byakuren).
In this context, yes, it would mean that Youjutsu and Mahou mean the same. So, this is his diary?Source (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN%27s_former_blog_%22Touhou_Shofu%22_3)
Yeah the "item existing in-universe" is probably just 4th wall breaking. And I don't think it is worth talking about in this thread.Yeah, breaking the 4th wall isn't really a "power" per se; it's just a cute literary device ZUN seems to be fond of.
The answer to this is "magic".I mean, I wonder how come Miko can shoot fire in HM but I don't bother bringing that up. Or summoning swords from midair. Or teleporting, but the last one doesn't really matter me as much as the other two and I mainly ignore this one.
I mean sure you can decide to continue saying Yuugi's ability really is to "manipulate the supernatural" whatever that means, you'll just be wrong for the same reason saying Sanae's ability is to breathe fire.(In the sense that Miko now has shown being able to st least shoot fire)
Taoist alchemists are actually a historical thing (they invented gunpowder, for example). I can't pretend to know what casting a spell actually feels like, but in most cases it seems to be something they learn to do through experience rather than an innate unchangeable property.
Again, I am not claiming she cannot do that, I am just saying how out of nowhere it feels especially a lot of Miko's moveset focuses on lasers and energy orbs. And bringing Marisa into this doesn't really help your case as she specializes in light and heat magic and she shoots fire out of the corrupted Mini-Hakkero, which was originally a furnace.Again, I really don't think this subject needs any further discussion. Let's just leave it as one of mysteries which doesn't need deeper look at.
Youkai might work a bit differently since their very existence is magical, but characters like Yukari are shown to use traditional forms of magic like onmyouji (binding familiars and whatnot) so they can probably learn spells too. In addition to their innate powers, perhaps.
Youkai might work a bit differently since their very existence is magical, but characters like Yukari are shown to use traditional forms of magic like onmyouji (binding familiars and whatnot) so they can probably learn spells too. In addition to their innate powers, perhaps.Magicians are Youkai so at least some can learn magic.
For example, Mokou as a human probably doesn't have any innate ability to manipulate fire, and it doesn't seem likely the elixir would've suddenly allowed him to. Therefore it's likely he simply specializes in using fire magic.Surprise, being able to shoot fire isn't one of her listed abilities.
generic youkai speciesI think calling youkai a species at all is sort of misleading. It's much too rigid and implies all youkai are sort of the same things, when really it's much more flexible and ambiguous than that. I would indeed say that they possess arbitrary abilities. That's how people have always made up youkai: very arbitrarily.
I actually like to imagine that many of the listed abilities (that is, the self proclaimed "capable of blah" ones) are magic that the character in question specializes in, rather than an innate thing.Mokou is a strange case to me. I don't think there is any canon reason for why Mokou has the phoenix theme, is there?
For example, Mokou as a human probably doesn't have any innate ability to manipulate fire, and it doesn't seem likely the elixir would've suddenly allowed him to. Therefore it's likely he simply specializes in using fire magic.
We have lots of abilities that, as far as I am aware, aren't naturally attributed to any particular type of youkai; border manipulation, elementalism, distance warping, destroying things and so forth. Either those with these abilities belong to a generic youkai species, with members of which possessing arbitrary abilities, or youkai possess some degree of innate magical talent, and their listed abilities are simply determined by their primary usage of it.Now this isn't true, is it? A lot of youkai don't just have powers, the powers are central to their existence. Rumia doesn't exist and then get her control over darkness. The darkness control comes first (fear of darkness, darkness is trying to get people, whatever), and then Rumia comes out of that. Komachi (a little different but it might still apply) didn't learn how to manipulate distances, there was a need for distance manipulation, and that became Komachi.
Mokou is a strange case to me. I don't think there is any canon reason for why Mokou has the phoenix theme, is there?Nope, aisde for being SYMBOOOLIIIC~ *Bufu'd*
Surprise, being able to shoot fire isn't one of her listed abilities.
I think calling youkai a species at all is sort of misleading. It's much too rigid and implies all youkai are sort of the same things, when really it's much more flexible and ambiguous than that. I would indeed say that they possess arbitrary abilities. That's how people have always made up youkai: very arbitrarily.
Now this isn't true, is it? A lot of youkai don't just have powers, the powers are central to their existence. Rumia doesn't exist and then get her control over darkness. The darkness control comes first (fear of darkness, darkness is trying to get people, whatever), and then Rumia comes out of that. Komachi (a little different but it might still apply) didn't learn how to manipulate distances, there was a need for distance manipulation, and that became Komachi.
...I can't seem to think of more examples which aren't gods, who obviously fit this criteria.
Mokou is a strange case to me. I don't think there is any canon reason for why Mokou has the phoenix theme, is there?
Now this isn't true, is it? A lot of youkai don't just have powers, the powers are central to their existence. Rumia doesn't exist and then get her control over darkness. The darkness control comes first (fear of darkness, darkness is trying to get people, whatever), and then Rumia comes out of that. Komachi (a little different but it might still apply) didn't learn how to manipulate distances, there was a need for distance manipulation, and that became Komachi.
Can I just say that I just finished CoLA, and youkai has now officially lost all meaning. Whatever, I guess it's just a term for the weird things in the world.
On characters who's powers are part of their existence, all fairies are born from certain concepts of nature, meaning they would have been created from those things. In extension, they can manipulate the thing they presetent.
I wouldn't say all fairies, otherwise you will be hard pressed to explain the 3 fairies of light.Admireably yeah, but they still draw poer from their respectful things. Sunny Milk is weaker when Sun isn't visible, Luna Child is same expect with the Moon and Star Sapphire doesn't need to worry about the time of the day since she draaws powers from the stars. And I guess Sunny Milk has light control with ability to refractuation of light.
Probably because of the Hourai Elixir. That and Kaguya has the Dragon theme.The Hourai Elixir is the obvious answer but that would then suggest that Kaguya would also undergo some change, which didn't seem the happen. You say she has a dragon theme but I havn't noticed this.
Youkai also have abilities unrelated to their existence. For example, Medicine and Kogasa.Medicine's origins are a bit mysterious but she was supposedly discarded in a field of poisonous flowers. Medicine has been speculated to be a Tsukumogami like Kogasa, and Kogasa could have an origin that would link her to her "power".
Komachi is not a youkai.
Yes, it is a term, but it is a monster for that term. So, you have youkai of falling asleep when you least expect to. And youkai of losing track of time or random things like that.I feel like you made at least one mistake in this sentence so I'm not sure what you're saying. "it is a monster for that term"? I do remember the Murphy's youkai though from SoPM, which it looks like you're describing.
I wouldn't say all fairies, otherwise you will be hard pressed to explain the 3 fairies of light.I wouldn't be surprised if a fairy's power isn't clearly linked to the natural phenomenon it reflects. I mean Lily White exists and while spring doesn't announce that it's hear in any particular way, it sure does seem like things know when Spring arives. Sunny Milk is pretty clear, refraction of light being a natural phenomenon. Luna Child and Star Sapphire are trickier.
I'm just reading the wiki here, which has "Eternal youth and immortality, resistance to and manipulation of fire". In any case, she's hardly the only example.The wiki lists it as an observation; it's never formally stated. So, saying she specializes in fire magic because it's listed, is mistaken to begin with. It was just a small quip though.
My understanding is "Youkai" is a superset (so, a genus or family rather than a species), encompassing oni and tengu and kappa and such, in the same way the term "dog" encompasses a large variety of breeds. As such, characters who are listed simply as "youkai" under the species tab is the same as listing your pet as a dog; the implication is the pet is a type of dog. In the post you're replying to, I was saying the individuals with a power that doesn't seem linked to their species could belong to >>a<< species of youkai that possess arbitrary powers (some catch-all breed of humanlike supernatural beings), not that youkai is a species in and of itself.And as I said, saying youkai has anything to do with a regular biological classification system, or even that youkai is even something you can categorize as "types" at all, isn't accurate. Tengu, Kappa, and Oni I would call species of youkai, but youkai itself I would not consider a level above "species" in the same manner.
In any case, proposing that each youkai in the series with a different power each belong to a separate species is a bit weird, in my opinion; it'd suggest that either the characters aren't nearly as unique in terms of their abilities as one would expect (what with a whole race of peers behind the scenes and all), or that we have dozens of species that include only a single member.Both may be true. We have nice big societies of some youkai, not coincidentally being the same youkai you'd call species, but we also have many solo youkai. One important thing is that tengu and such have historically been said to have a sort of society just as humans do, rather than them existing as lone youkai. The legends themselves naturally have some youkai stories turn into a society and species simply because of how common they are and how they usually physically interact with humans in some way.
The Hourai Elixir is the obvious answer but that would then suggest that Kaguya would also undergo some change, which didn't seem the happen. You say she has a dragon theme but I havn't noticed this.
I feel like you made at least one mistake in this sentence so I'm not sure what you're saying. "it is a monster for that term"? I do remember the Murphy's youkai though from SoPM, which it looks like you're describing.
Medicine's origins are a bit mysterious but she was supposedly discarded in a field of poisonous flowers. Medicine has been speculated to be a Tsukumogami like Kogasa, and Kogasa could have an origin that would link her to her "power".
I mean Lily White exists and while spring doesn't announce that it's hear in any particular way, it sure does seem like things know when Spring arives. Sunny Milk is pretty clear, refraction of light being a natural phenomenon. Luna Child and Star Sapphire are trickier.
None of the 3 fairies of light are nature based. They are based on the sun, moon and stars.
Mamizou says that the Chupacabra is an uma instead of a youkai (although that could simply be a latin american equivalent to youkai. Since it's literally the feminine form of "one" in portuguese, I'm having difficulty finding the meaning of the term as it's intended there)She says it's a U.M.A. (Unidentified Mysterious Animal). In other words, a cryptid.
She says it's a U.M.A. (Unidentified Mysterious Animal). In other words, a cryptid.Ah, the translation I read didn't have the dots, so it didn't look like an acronym. Thanks.
Ah, the translation I read didn't have the dots, so it didn't look like an acronym. Thanks.Acronyms don't have dots, by definition. The main problem here was that the font I use is in all-caps anyway, so you can't tell the difference between UMA and uma. Eventually I settled on both using a different font for it so it stands out and putting a translation note page at the end. Actually it kind of surprised me how many people are unfamiliar with the term (which is a real term in English too), but I probably watch too much anime.
If you missed the translation note page, you probably read an early draft version that wasn't meant to be distributed publicly.Yeah, the place I read it didn't have the translation notes. Thanks for the info.
Excuse me? What makes you think that the Sun, the Moon, and the stars are not a part of nature? Everything in the universe that isn't man-made is nature. Just because it isn't on Earth does not exclude it from nature. Even Lily White's power is nature related, for the cycle of changing seasons is a natural phenomenon. And while you may think that the Moon does not radiate any light, just reflects the sunlight, that reflection too is a part of nature.
"Youkai" also doesn't encompass all supernatural beings; Lunarians aren't classified as youkai, for example, and Mamizou says that the Chupacabra is an uma instead of a youkai (although that could simply be a latin american equivalent to youkai. Since it's literally the feminine form of "one" in portuguese, I'm having difficulty finding the meaning of the term as it's intended there)
This is mentioned in Ghost Team's dialogue.Is that it. Alright, I guess, but that's REALLY not a lot to go off of. We're not exactly short on content involving Kaguya, so has this seriously not come up anywhere else. Maybe Yuyuko's comment can be interpreted differently?
Route A
Reisen: I can't believe this. You're far stronger than I thought...
Yuyuko: Next up, herbal dishes. And that's the end of it, too. Unfortunately, it's not a dragon after all, though.
Herbal most likely refers to Eirin. Route B mentions that the final course is at hand. Final course, being Dragon dish.
This is also where you get the idea that Yuyuko is exceptionally perceptive, more so than Yukari. Her team, being the only route to know ahead of time who the final boss is.
What I mean is if there is something strange that can't be explained, there is a youkai that does it. Youkai isn't really just the strange happenings, it is the monster behind the strange happenings.Which comes first, the strange happening or the monster behind the strange happening?
Youkai are usually description of what they do or what they are, not necessarily their power. Kogasa does not have any real abilities. Neither does Kisume, the bucket youkai. Kisume, being one of the more terrifying youkai around. Medicine is generally referred to as a doll youkai, but you can refer her to as a poison youkai too, both correctly describe her. Medicine definitely does not have the ability to manipulate dolls, for instance.I'm still not sure you can say something like a youkai's powers are unrelated to its existence. Sure there are apparent exceptions but there's also a lot we just don't know about individual youkai.
Which comes first, the strange happening or the monster behind the strange happening?They're one in the same.
I'm still not sure you can say something like a youkai's powers are unrelated to its existence. Sure there are apparent exceptions but there's also a lot we just don't know about individual youkai.It's more that the "ability" of the youkai is just not inherent just from what they are, but what they are can influence an ability they may have. It's a Ability implies Characteristic relationship rather than a Characteristic implies Ability relationship.
I'm still not sure you can say something like a youkai's powers are unrelated to its existence. Sure there are apparent exceptions but there's also a lot we just don't know about individual youkai.
Usually, a youkais existence is tied to their action. Parsee, bridge patrol, Kisume, well youkai, Rumia, darkness, Letty, snow, etc. A youkai's ability helps them do that specific action, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that action. Kisume has no ability, since she just pops out of a well and decapitates you or something. That doesn't really require an ability to do.Yeah, that seems fine.
For some youkai, they are highly related, because well, how do you cause darkness without having an ability to do it? But for others, not really, like the blank face youkai, no real ability needed, since she just has a blank face.
... Dafuq did I just read?
^ I really like that post...
To add:
The Fragments of the Flying Vault in UFO also contain such powerful magic to affect the magics. Faith, Spell, and Life magic are absorbed into each pieces, and they also affect Power and Passive magic. Individually, they don't matter much, but when three fragments are put together, the magic activates, causing the fragment to absorb all power and passive magic nearby. By destroying the activated fragments, you can then release the Spell/Life magic trapped inside. Depending on the fragments, they also convert some of Power/Passive magics onto Life or Spell magic.
Meanwhile in TD, the spirits gather Faith, Spell, and Life magic inside themselves, which is why there are only Power and Point boxes.
In Fairy Wars, Life magic doesn't matter since Fairies are immortal, and the game is over when Cirno becomes unmotivated anymore. Cirno likes freezing a lot, so having a lot of stuff frozen makes her more motivated. However, unknown to herself, her ice can also absorb Power and Spell magic in the air, hence why she gets stronger/get more Bombs when she freeze lotsa stuff.
Capable of riding any rhythmThe correct translation should be, "capable of making anything follow a rhythm" (unlike in English where "ride the rhythm" is a somewhat fancy expression, in Japanese 乘る is the standard verb in things like "following a rhythm".)
The correct translation should be, "capable of making anything follow a rhythm" (unlike in English where "ride the rhythm" is a somewhat fancy expression, in Japanese 乘る is the standard verb in things like "following a rhythm".)
Now this is much more powerful and humorous.
Does danmaku work in water, anyway? I know you can use water as danmaku, but what about danmaku in water?
I don't see why not. If Kaguya can use food as danmaku against Mokou, and Marisa's stars are solid, I don't see why Danmaku can't be done under water....what does those things have to do with my question?
If danmaku were used underwater, wouldn't the danmaku be slowed down? Or if they're lighter than water, be pulled owards the surface? And how can you use water danmaku while underwater?
Like for example, Yuuka's 'flower manipulation' might evolve to 'manipulation of life' or 'manipulation of body parts' (making her has similar ability to Nico Robin from One Piece)How do you get from growing plants to being able to manipulate life or grow body parts? I think next step of her power evolution would be able to fully control plants and make them dangerous (i.e. Poison Ivy).
What's the full extent of Seija and Sukuna's power though? Can Seija like, reflect attacks directed at her or reverse intangible concepts like time, flow of liquid, etc.This is what intrigued me recently.
You people think Wakasagihime's power should taken like it is said? As in, can we really say she actually becomes stronger while underwater? How can we be sure that it is said like that because most people see her outside the water and once she gets back in water she just seems stronger? Or maybe it is because she is just harder to beat underwater because most people then try to go after her, allowing her to kick their asses in her natural habitat?
This is what intrigued me recently.Yeah I think she doesn't have the raw strength to pull off more impressive feats like her attempt to flip social structure.
I think she might have reversed the perception of the protagonist during the fight in stage 5.
But she is probably unable to apply her power on a large scale, since she needed the power of the mallet for her purpose.
How do you get from growing plants to being able to manipulate life or grow body parts? I think next step of her power evolution would be able to fully control plants and make them dangerous (i.e. Poison Ivy).I'm just trying to think in a non-obvious manner. Like, listening to 10 people at once -> hearing ten desires of a person isn't really an obvious step of evolution.
Like for example, Yuuka's 'flower manipulation' might evolve to 'manipulation of life' or 'manipulation of body parts' (making her has similar ability to Nico Robin from One Piece)
I think she might have reversed the perception of the protagonist during the fight in stage 5.
But she is probably unable to apply her power on a large scale, since she needed the power of the mallet for her purpose.
And does Koishi count as 'power evolution'? She might more be 'power replacement' though...
This is what intrigued me recently.
I think she might have reversed the perception of the protagonist during the fight in stage 5.
But she is probably unable to apply her power on a large scale, since she needed the power of the mallet for her purpose.
There's nothing really mysterious about her. She can invert things. Invert them in the sense that she can invert the color scheme of her danmaku. Or invert the game screen (probably a representation of her flipping the protagonist's perception). I doubt she's capable of anything really major. If she were, she wouldn't need the Miracle Mallet to achieve her goals.Implying that either of your examples aren't considered major.
well, the oni thing was for her species in japanese folklore, since we dont have more data about that based on the games or other worksThe second line of her character profile outright says they are not a type of oni. This is literally the only statement about Amanojaku in the official works, so it's incredibly odd that the first thing you had picked to assume about them contradicts that one statement lol.
I was wandering shouldn't the thread about Nue and Rumia power belong to how the power of the ladies work?Agreed, merging now.
Regarding Nue's power,there are some questions that I've been wondering.
Any explanation on why Nue's power of the unknown didn't work on Byakuren? She saw those UFOs only as pieces of wood, it's real form. It can't be that it's because it was the fragments of the Tobikura and Byakuren knew it, unlike the 3 heroines. That will make Nue's power totally useless for something that someone used to know.
As far as I remember, Reimu can't manipulate borders; the only times she seems to do so she was either having Yukari's help (like in SA) or just teleporting in a way very distinct from Yukari's (like she does in the fighting games, where she just vanishes and appears somewhere else).She used Dream Sign "Duplex Barrier" in PCB before having even met Yukari, and Boundary "Duplex Danmaku Barrier" in Imperishable Night when acting alone as a boss. That's what made me think she had border manipulation.
She used Dream Sign "Duplex Barrier" in PCB before having even met Yukari, and Boundary "Duplex Danmaku Barrier" in Imperishable Night when acting alone as a boss. That's what made me think she had border manipulation.I don't think creating barriers is the same as manipulating borders. She never does anything similar to Yukari's border manipulation, like her bringing random junk from around the world, or her "Border between Brain and Feet" spellcard, or those spellcards that run along the border of the screen.
I've been wondering for a while now, how does Momiji's ability work? Her ability was listed as "Seeing a thousand ri ahead", which sounds pretty hyperbolic considering how far 1000 li is and how small Gensokyo actually is. On the other hand, ZUN stated that her ability was telegnosis in the SoPM interview, which is something that I find even more unlikely.I don't get why Gensokyo's size should affect her ability. Just because she wouldn't be able to see past the barrier doesn't mean she wouldn't be able to if there was no obstacles in place. We don't know how old she is, she could predate the Hakurei barrier after all. I also don't get why you'd think that her having telegnosis is somehow more unlikely.
I don't think creating barriers is the same as manipulating borders. She never does anything similar to Yukari's border manipulation, like her bringing random junk from around the world, or her "Border between Brain and Feet" spellcard, or those spellcards that run along the border of the screen.
I certainly wouldn't say that Toyohime's ability is in any way similar to Reimu's "ability to float". Toyo's ability seems more similar to Yukari's gaps. Reimu's just allow her to become intangible.
While I don't think Reimu can manipulate borders exactly, she does know some stuff related to borders. For example, in Hopeless Masquerade, she can jump from one side of the screen to another. Or how when walking in a straight line, she can appear behind you. In that instance, she sort of warps the boundary around you so that going past a specific spot will end up behind you or something like that.Yeah, I mentioned that. Maybe Yukari taught her those tricks.
Reimu's ability to float may or may not be related to her being able to become intangible. Those two are not necessarily related.Yes, they are. Her "Fantasy Nature" spellcard is explicitly stated to be her floating away from reality, both by Marisa in her book and in the spellcards' commentary ("With Reimu's ability to float, she floats from everything in reality and becomes invincible").
Yeah, I mentioned that. Maybe Yukari taught her those tricks.
Yes, they are. Her "Fantasy Nature" spellcard is explicitly stated to be her floating away from reality, both by Marisa in her book and in the spellcards' commentary ("With Reimu's ability to float, she floats from everything in reality and becomes invincible").
色々と究極奥義。霊夢はありとあらゆるものから宙に浮き無敵となる。
もしこれが遊び（時間制限付き）でなければ、誰も勝つ事が出来ない。
Considering the fact that everyone in Gensokyo can apparently flyNot really. It might be an ability that can be obtained relatively easily, but besides a few exceptions like Mokou and Sakuya, the humans that can fly have pretty good reasons. The humans in the human village very probably can't fly.
Agreed. It might be that ZUN kinda mixed 'em up. Though I guess it's common to treat barriers and boundaries as the same thing, so there's that.
Wouldn't she also have a hard time against saints, like Kasen or Byakuren(who got 8 down, if they are the same thing)?
Not really. It might be an ability that can be obtained relatively easily, but besides a few exceptions like Mokou and Sakuya, the humans that can fly have pretty good reasons. The humans in the human village very probably can't fly.It's not like the girls themselves fly that often anyway, outside of incident-mode. We very rarely see them flying in the manga, and when they do it's usually because of some sort of an incident. Even if the villagers can fly, they don't seem to have any reason to actually do.
I'm not quite sure if Miko would have a hard time reading either Kasen or Byakuren. I don't think either of them are missing any of the ten desires.Well, I'd like to explain but because Buddhist teachings and whatnot is so vast and confusing, first I'd like you to be clear on "what you think are the Ten Desires". I've searched but still not sure what those are. Because depending on what they really are, it can either be quick or took forever. It would be great if those knowledgeable in the subject can help explaining this.
Miko would have an extremely hard time reading Yuyuko.
We very rarely see them flying in the manga, and when they do it's usually because of some sort of an incident. Even if the villagers can fly, they don't seem to have any reason to actually do.
I mean really, if being a hermit or saint is to get rid of worldly desires, I'd be surprised if they didn't miss any, especially Byakuren. Besides, Miko doesn't show any signs of being able to read her desires in both SoPM and HM. If she's supposed to be Miko's rival in the setting, it'd be weird if she doesn't have anything to counter Miko.
And if you said being dead makes you lose those desires then maybe you have an idea about it, so please explain it first.
She fails in Youmu's case because Miko is used to hearing human desires. Youmu isn't human.Specifically, Youmu's half-dead state means that her subconscious mind neither fears nor seeks death. Both of those desires are normally woven pretty tightly into the human psyche, meaning that even if Youmu's other desires are pretty normal, they don't combine into a personality in the same way. Miko can't see the overall personality, only figure it out from its components, so her reading of Youmu ends up wrong.