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Serelapony gave me the idea for this. So how about another Genius of Sappherios thread?
Translation thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10383.0.html) (If you're having problems with your game)
Old Thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10472.0.html)
So, does anyone have a strategy for the second to last dungeon in the expansion?
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For the last two EX stages, I worked off a strategy of Alice/Satori/Byakuren/Marisa/-physical attacker- in Hyper Library formation for 40% magic buff on Marisa.
Satori inflicted debilitating statuses mostly (although she had a physical too; which arguably did the same since her last two eyes do charm and charm/control on physical hits. And some support skills.), Byakuren buffs Marisa's magic, and Marisa nukes everything with mystic skills (The ones she gets at late levels are so good... although I think you need like lv92 for the last laser nonspell). Alice is there to tank one of the paper def slots and use defensive skills. And the physical attacker is for things that don't die to magic and also MOAR DAKKA.
Some enemies though are just really hard so I ran.
There's likely a better way to tackle it then this, (Especially since having Marisa at 92 helps it a lot so she has Final Laser, and lv92 is uhm, kind of high) but it worked well enough for me.
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Marisa's at 89 so I'll grind for awhile. Are there any enemies i should watch out for?
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Ones that look like battlecruiser ships made of angels.
It's just hard to -damage- them is all :T If you can get past that I don't remember them being that bad otherwise. Maybe your fifth member can handle it.
Reisen might be a good idea for a 5th member actually, since Satori can inflict a status and Reisen can slay it, along with her torrent of natural slayers in one of her passive trees.
The other person who takes a paper def slot should be given equipment for physical resists, by the way. Byakuren is a good idea because she doesn't need much else equipped in her accessory slots and gets divine barrier out of her scrolls.
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I should pick up this game again. I ragequit long ago after another one of those rare, random crashes upon leaving a dungeon (which meant having to collect every damned item again, and losing some rare drops).
If you've converted a GoS savefile to the new engine (started with 2.06, I think) it's compatible with Weekend, right?
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If you've converted a GoS savefile to the new engine (started with 2.06, I think) its compatible with Weekend, right?
Pretty sure it is, yes. If it isn't you'd just have to convert it again I guess, but I'm fairly sure those saves work fine as-is.
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So I plowed through the Muenzuka and Garden Dungeons.
Is, uh, Komachi the only way to get Shinigami Scythe? Or whatever, because I heard she had a Blue Magic Satori can snag, like Iku and Mad Thunder.
Also. Holy hell was the Yuuka-Meddy double boss hard. Took me three or four tries to figure the pattern and gimmick out, the rest was up to luck, hoping Yuuka wouldn't go all USC-Modo.
Once I took her down, I was down to just Mokou and Satori. Mokou shortly kicked the bucket afterwards, but Meddy couldn't do anything to Satori due to Satori being specced for Poison Arts(And thus, immune to Poison). And the fact that she has a Gaea Ring equipped meant that Meddy was doing bugger-all in the way of damage, Satori's regen was clocking 15-30, meddy was barely scraping 9-20.
Just chucked a Crowbar on Mokou, stuck a few points in Axes, and capped Hourai, then let her autorevive do the work for me.
At that point, I could just hit autobattle, go off and make a sammich, and when I came back, she was down for the count.
EDIT: For context, I was around Lv26-28, with a team of Alice, Mokou, Byakuren, Satori, Sakuya, and with Sanae on commander.
EDIT 2: Is it a good idea to farm more than one Sexy Underwear for Byakuren? Because I noted it boosts Control/Charm chance by 25%, wanted to know if it's cumulative, or if it stacks.
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You can get Shinigami's Scythe from enemies in stage 20, 25 and 27. In the past Komachi was the only enemy you could get it from. Took some grinding to get Satori up to level 30 there. :colonveeplusalpha: Not nearly as annoying as having to get Hyper Fang Crusher from Kagami with a 3% learning chance though.
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Thankfully hyper fang crush is 100% learn rate (with skill points in the learning tree) now, because it's actually a move you'd consider using. Samidare Slash with a higher chance of more hits.
Also, you can't get more then 1 of any equipment in this game. If you, say, upgraded it into something else, you'd be able to get another, though.
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Oh, so I was wasting my time by grinding off those guys. :colonveeplusalpha:
Also, I seem to have horrid luck on learning skills these days.
I ping the learnproc, but then the enemies do something stupid that forces me to run away, thus losing the proc.
I've lost Earthquake and Samidare Slash that way. :colonveeplusalpha:
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Happens. I've learned Petro Breath three times while running away.
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You can learn that? :colonveeplusalpha:
What kinda level do you have to be? Because my Satori's hovering around 26-28, and still no luck.
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Req's level 30.
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Ah. Guess I'll level up in Eientei.
On that topic, who should be in Team 1, and who should be in Team 2? And are formations different between the two?
If it helps, I've made Mokou's best Knuckle, the Arondight, the Spangled Kindergarten Uniform, Byakuren's best Scroll, the Sorceress Broom for Marisa, and a couple other things, like the Platinum Shield, which is currently sitting on Tank!Alice.
Should I just grind up for enough sunflower seeds and character items to have the best stuff I can get?
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The party that goes to the right should be focused on magic, and the one to the left should focus on physical attacks. I find it a good idea to stick Alice in the magic party and Sanae in the physical one; the first can be her usual self not letting anyone die and Sanae's physical skills are actually pretty good for this dungeon.
As for crafting stuff, even though that was made easier in Weekend, I suggest looking at the stats of everything (especially future items) on the wiki and planning accordingly. Some things like a broom for Marisa and a two-handed sword for Sakuya are pretty good, while others like fans for Aya and boots for Alice are not.
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The only things I've ever made for Alice were the Shanghai Greaves and Sturdy Doll armor, for more Lives/Bombs/HP. Shanghai Greaves gives you 10% more HP after all.
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Rainbow Greaves are best boots until her ultimate ones, which are rainbow boots but better.
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I don't have those yet, so Shanghai Greaves will have to do for now.
I've noted that Mokou is surprisingly good with a Spear until you can craft the best knuckle you can get prior to beating Eientei.
I forget what it's called, but it's got 70 power.
Until then, I gave her the White Lance, or the West Peak Silver Sect Spear. She's surprisingly good when you stick points into Rebel/Spears.
Of course, for the fight with Yuuka and Meddy, I had to give her the Crowbar because of the anti-tsukumogami effect.
If I had a sword for Sakuya that also had that property, or Slayer: Youkai, then I would've had an easier time.
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I liked using spears on Mokou for the 2 mp column move in random battle spamming (Mokou and Aya have looow mp, so it's convenient)
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I like Imperial Charge/Dragon Wave. WIth enough points in Rebel, they're 5/6 MP, and 0 CD. And Rebel gives you enough MP to spam those like crazy, nevermind that her bombs get stronger. (which up until then, were her best, and just about ONLY source of damage.)
Also, how the fuck does Xu Fu work?
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Xu Fu's Dimension is a single target buff that gives regeneration and reraise on its target. If the target gets hit by an attack that should kill it while the buff is up (it's 99 turns though, I believe), they'll retain 1 HP and survive. However, they will lose all other buffs applied to them including this one.
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Funny, it's never worked for me. Everyone I've given it just dies like normal, no reraise, no pinch survival, nothing.
I'm beginning to wonder if my copy isn't bugged or something.
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It doesn't work on instant death attacks, I think. But yeah, if the regeneration doesn't occur and it doesn't give you that last chance hitpoint you might have a bugged game.
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They were normal, non-instadeath hits. I should know because I mostly used it during the Garden of The Sun boss.
So far I'm stuck with a useless bomb.
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Garden of the sun? I'm not sure if it saves you from Poison, which thankfully would be mostly an incredibly situational flaw; very few bosses have it.
If it's not working on completely average attacks, and you're sure you didn't shove it off via more then 5 buffs or it got dispelled or something, then you should report it to TheNewGuy in the translation thread; it's possible the english patch futz'd it up, although that seems like it'd be a strange thing to break indeed. (Although it'd be a good idea to remove the english patch and try it first if you can.)
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I was only having Sanae's Takeminakata buff, and Alice's Earth Resist+ buff. Marionette Shield as well, but that's damn near mandatory. Of course, in Satori's case, she also had Hyper Trigger on, so as to stick Yuuka with Toxic.
Which, I must tell you guys, is a very useful means of harming her beyond an Enthunder'd Arondight with Fullmoon Revenge.
Incidentally, Fullmoon Revenge is visually that one combination attack from SaGa Frontier 1 whose name I forget.
EDIT: Of course, the fact that the attacks in question were Reflowering of Gensokyo and Gassing Garden might also be the sticking point.
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Xu-Fu's dimension gives regen and prevents you from dying once. If the next hit would be fatal, you would go down to 1 HP and lose all buffs instead. If this is not happening then you should ask about it.
Depending on your team, Alice may or may not be necessary. I have not used Alice in most of my boss fights and it worked out well.
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The team in question was Alice, Sakuya, Mokou, Byakuren, Satori, and Commander Sanae.
I was even using Poison Shield, but I guess that's useless on multi-target attacks.
I do like that after a while, Meddy stopped using GG. I suspect she actually ran out of MP, as she just kept using Sweet Poison, and slinging her basic attack.
Nowadays I'm using Sunlight Lunch, that formation you get for beating them. So far it's proving VERY useful with Alice.
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Stuck at the main last boss (yes again, I lost my save at stage 27)...
My setup :
Reimu Marisa Mokou Sakuya Satori (Aya)
Alice Youmu Byakuren Patchouli Sanae (Nitori)
I have no problem with team 2 and no survivability problem in team 1 though Mokou Marisa and Sakuya deals crap damages I run out of MP/Bombs when they'r only at 1/2 hps :
Mokou lv58 (One-Shot Punch) > Fujiyama Volcano : 2.7k on Lithos
Sakuya lv57(Orichalcum Dagger) > Jack the Ripper : 600 / hit on Anastasis
Marisa lv58 (Rod of Penitence) > Stardust skills : 500~1700
So I'm farming Yukkuri King I'm aiming lv65 but I doubt they'll deal much more damage.
Why Sakuya doesn't do good damages through almost the entire game and why Mokou deals that low damages, I remember her doing 4k in my first playthrough.
... What am I doing wrong ?
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Sakuya's better (she's still shit) with a 2h, using Full Moon Revenge. You could give Mokou the Turtlesmasher or whatever axe with slayer on Aquatics and Reptilians. Hope for lots of double crits. And get 15 more levels.
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^This.
I haven't gotten as far as you man, but even I can attest to Sakuya being better with 2-Handers.
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I find Sakuya a lot more useful in that fight if you give her a Mambele (drops from THOSE damn Unseely Courts in stage 20, IIRC). Strong enough for your JtRs to deal good damage, slayer on the three goddesses (although only Anastasis is going to take a lot of damage form it) and if you get lucky enough to carry her Last Word through the second form, BOY does she kick ass. Marisa's magic won't really deal any kind of amazing damage as you'd expect, also the near limitless MP pool she gets with a broom could help you with your problem. Mokou should be spamming Fujiyama Volcano on whoever doesn't resist strike/fire as you know, also as mentioned the Turtlesmasher really helps.
Also, I like how our parties are almost the same, with the difference being Aya instead of Satori for me.
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Broom for more MP regen, if you're running out of MP you could even consider not using stronger stardusts if you need to. Keep in mind the nonspell cooldown in the Lasers tree covers stardusts too. Rod of Penitence probably has Magic Exorcism, that'd be why you're using it, I imagine; you'll be doing significantly less damage to Lithos with stardusts without it. But only orichalcum versions of the character's unique weapons have it... (Ingame it isn't listed on all of them, but they DO have it)
Sakuya's big damage comes from the fact that 2h swords and their +90 atk bonus in the skill tree is REALLY STRONG. However, orichalcum dagger has MP drain, and you have to actually worry about mp, so... (Mambele could be good as suggested, I wouldn't know)
Full Moon Revenge is actually kind of an eh attack once you get farther into the game. Her multihit nonspells deal a lot more damage per hit. (At least ones past her initial cheap one) So don't worry about that.
I don't think it's good to attack both Lithos AND Biotopos with magic; since their weakness elements are opposites, you end up draining your own land, and in turn reducing your own damage. I went for not attacking Lithos because she has a LOT more mdef -and-, more scarily, a lot more Divine Barrier; my attacks just plain didn't deal a lot of damage to her. But you -are- using Fujiyama Volcano, so... hrm.
Reimu with a gohei could have nice MP drain on physical to let her use lots of skills, but regardless of whether you went for a physical or magical build, her damage would probably be pretty eh, and I imagine she might be on support duty anyway.
If Satori has Mad Thunder that's probably too good to not use on Anastasis along with Self-Hypnosis. However it's fairly unlikely you'd actually have it. It's used by... monster 282 Zera Beetle? Buuuut, this is one of the stage 21 minibosses, and probably more trouble then it's worth, so don't worry about it.
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I'd better not using Mad Thunder since I'm petrifying the two others monsters (reset if there's a boss).
Nonspell cooldown -1 in laser skill tree for stardusts aww yeaaaah.
About MP/bombs I'd better do fast damage because I use at least 1 bomb each loop (Shield Wall then Super Duplex Barrier for Anastasis, whatever she bomb or not), +1 for Reflect Wall if Lithos's decides to bomb refill.
Now some questions about farming :
- What's the fastest way to make mobs respawn ?
- Can we drop 2 weapons/armors/accessories or more ? Like, 3 yukkuri crowns.
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Fastest way to make mobs respawn? Run through more areas, I guess. I've heard it's linked to how many times you enter a dungeon, I'd just run through two dungeons, fighting some enemies and they'd respawn.
You can only have one of a specific item at once. If you use it to synthesize something else you can get another one as a drop, though.
Oh, and do kill every enemy the last boss throws at you, at least once, and then wipe out and go save. You'll never get their enemy data otherwise, and it'll be stuck on 99% forever. I learned through experience. Actually, I think the normal and lunatic forms of the last boss are different enemies as well, so you'll need to not go to the expansion after beating it once, then beat the other form.
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Go to the Hakurei Shrine, step on the magic circle, go out.
Repeat this 5 times, and the enemies will be fully respawned. Most of them.
You get an option to fight the Last Boss of the Main Story again even after moving to 残暑, so you don't have to worry about it. New feature in 週末.
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I've been looking at the walkthrough on the Touhou wiki again recently, since I intend to play the game again now that the English patch for Weekend is out, and among the significant amount of new information since the last time I was there (shortly after the Lingering Summer Heat English patch was released) is lists of treasure chests in each stage. Each list begins with something like this (example taken from the stage 3 page):
Number of Treasure Chests: 56 (20+36) Treasure Chest Percentage: 10.1% (13.5% in version 1.x)
Can someone explain a: the significance of the '20+36' part, and b: what the percentage part means?
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The 20 is how many chests you've opened prior to the area, and the 36 is how many you open IN the area. I think.
The percentage is how many of the game's chests you've opened so far. That I do know.
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@team setup:
I suggest swapping Sanae with Satori, so that you can have a buffer for both teams.
A buffer would help out on your damage output. I would also not bother with Lithos
unless you plan to make the field full fire. You don't really want the field to be in the middle, you want a full field of one type.
If you think this will make fight 3 harder, you can always nullify the field on fight 2 before you start on fight 3.
Another possibility is to have Alice use the Yata no Kagami and have her use Little Legion. Yata no Kagami(I don't remember if you can get this yet) can block void damage, so you can survive the field absorb combo from boss 3. Or have Reimu use the barrier and hopefully she uses that skill that turn.
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The 20 is how many chests you've opened prior to the area, and the 36 is how many you open IN the area. I think.
The percentage is how many of the game's chests you've opened so far. That I do know.
Ah. Thanks.
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This just in, the e-patch did indeed bork Xu Fu.
I tried a fresh install, and it had the regen. Patched does not.
EDIT: Disregard the bit about regen. It does have the regen on both versions, but there seems to be no last chance hitpoint in the patched version that I've noted.
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Then you should report that to the translation thread. http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10383.540.html
Percentage of chests opened can be checked in the ingame records, which is why it's listed.
I agree that adding Sanae to the first party could be a good idea (It's what I did), but you could also possibly switch someone with Patch for better damage instead. If you null the field with her before you switch, there shouldn't be an issue; your final party has means to counteract the boss's super nuke if you need to (With Sanae/Alice/Byakuren/Nitoricommander all together in one party you seriously should have no issue not dying) and without Patch in my second party I still had no issues with her using it. Youmu takes her down so fast with her 100 exorcism god slaying katana, dark enchant, and proper buffs. (For that matter, having the land tilted towards Dark helps, but it's not needed, and she won't nuke if land is light/dark maxed.)
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Well, I still have to run a few more tests, hence my use of 'seems'.
EDIT: After one such test on a 101 HP Marisa, I've concluded something. This spell does bugger-all for guys already down to 1 HP.
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You can now craft the Kusanagi easily, so use that instead.
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It'd probably actually be a better idea to give the Kusanagi to someone else for support damage.
Katana POW tree gives 33% increased critical damage and 10% critical chance, and Human stance gives a good bit of critical bonus as well, along with having an additional critical buff you can use when Youmu's lv60 last spell is on cooldown; so, with all those criticals, the 33% damage boost and 10% extra crit rate is DEFINITELY worth it. And yes, it's not just on paper, with the exception of just plain bad luck occuring, Youmu will crit a lot when set up for it and they deal an ungodly amount of damage.
Sword POW tree has an increase on elemental strength (dark weakness) and slayer effect, plus the Kusanagi has a bit better attack power, so there's that... but seriously, those crits deal a shitton of damage with Katana's, a shitton, it's probably better to go for those bonuses instead. And then with the Kusanagi on someone else you undoubtably get more damage out of things overall. (You can give it to someone in your first party if nothing else, it's got high attack power for that point in the game and that exorcism is VALUABLE right now as well, since orichalcum weapons are scarce.)
The two weapons have the same amount of damage bonus from foreign god slayer, for anyone curious. (And yes, slayer effects vary in amounts of damage bonus depending on what's giving it.)
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Finally beat them after 4 hours of battle/retries.
About team 1 : Reimu Marisa Mokou Satori Sakuya (Aya)
Satori's petro breath too good, else anyone can die if monsters & boss decides to aim for one character.
Reflect Wall only reflects Lithos's charm not petrify, tricked me once.
Reimu too is useful, to counter Anastasis's and Lithos's bombs with barriers.
Sakuya sucks ... until buffed for her accuracy (her last word is so good, got it 2 times). But I think I could have used Nitori instead... because outside of her last word she still can't stop missing doing only about 0~1 hit each turn which deals 300 to Anastasis (weak slash), 150 to Bio and always miss Lithos.
But I think I could have made this battle way easier if I farmed POW for Mokou (+70 PATK) and Marisa (non-spellcard cd -1 in laser and broom trees).
About team 2 : Alice Youmu Byakuren Patchy Sanae (Nitori)
Even if it looks like best team or something I still got some deaths, Alice 2-3 times, Byakuren and Patchy.
Alice spamming earth guard for phase 2 then london doll on Youmu during phase 3 though I did it in one try but the last turn could have turned into nightmare if Youmu didn't finish the goddess because Alice was dead and Nitori's 3sc commander was still in cooldown.
.. Almost forgot : I didn't beat them with lv58-62 (I'm not crazy ...) but with lv65-68.
So uh, thanks for your help and I'll try to make monsters respawn so I can farm Yukkuri Kings again for new characters.
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(I'm not crazy ...)
I beat it with low lv5xs to lv62s XD Just a matter of how you do it. I didn't have Sanae or Patch in my second party, and used the first party to handle the second phase as well (And like two turns of the third since I needed them to eat an Elec land nuke via reraise, due to me using Elec to attack), but I was still nearly invincible regardless. The only issue was I needed a little luck in the second party with either Sanae's LW coming up once and/or doublecast/magic crit procs.
I think part of the reason my third phase party was that good was because I used Poison Shield formation with Alice in the front with the powerful Autobarrier spamming Parrar/Little Legion... and I let her take one turn off (Reimu used a super duplex and Nitori used a 3commander bomb) to cast Doll's War, which I think made a big diff with the shield buff. Minor damage was taken that Reimu could heal off easily, and Byakuren had several free turns to heal as well. Actually, Reimu and Aya (both second party members) were almost useless the entire time... XD With Sakuya being my commander in the first party and Mokou tanking/reraise'ing.
Doll's War definitely made a big difference for me I think.
Aya made sure an important buff/heal went first, at least, and Reimu provided said heals and extra insurance when I cast Doll's War, so they weren't totally dead weight... (Alice took a bit when little legion'ing sometimes, and Youmu's lv60 Last Spell casts fast so if she still needs a Byakubuff, well)
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Hi, is anyone missing a Silver Key in the Netherworld? I only passed by one of them, yet there are 2 silver chests in the zone. Pretty sure I looked everywhere too. I haven't opened the chest nearest to Yuyu.
Wiki says its in West Cave-J (I should have this, a gold key and silver key in different sections of the same room)
There should've been another one in South-E, but all I have to go on is 2 sections of the map that I can't get to... I've been looking for a place to walk through the wall, but none seem to exist...
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Today, I have defeated the Elder Dragon, a fight I postponed for a while because the wiki said it's the hardest, but it was surprisingly easy compared to the Spirit World Challenger. Lv99 Reimu and Sakuya really make a huge difference in that battle due to Quicktime and Neo Fantasy Heaven.
Some questions.
1. How do I get the missing recipes, like Vivan's Excalibur and other upgrades to stage 21 items? Do I need to do the last remaining side quest, or is it something else? I assume it's not in the bonus dunegon's treasure chest, which should contain 2 accessory recipes only?
2. Any ideas or suggestion on how to do the bonus dungeon other than the few points in the wiki, and what to expect in there? Even the first map is full of the hardest, 40+k HP monsters from the rest of the dungeon, so I'm worried about running out of MP. Marisa can regen MP well, so she is good for attacking, Reimu can also regen MP so she can be the healer (being immune to all status helps, too), but what about the rest? Sakuya won't be able to regen, so she'll run out and be useless or I'll only have 1-2k normal attacks VS 40k hp monsters. Mokou and Sanae will run out of bombs so I can't count on resurrection either. Alice might help tanking with Marionette, but even that has a (fortunately low) MP cost, and she doesn't have any MP regen ability I know about. I plan to level all characters to 99 before going in there, but I'm still worried about it. I might also need Aya for going first to avoid killing myself with reflect if there are monsters that cast Reflect Wall, and she'll also run out of MP without any MP regen.
Speaking about Silver Keys, I have 2 extra copies, one for stage 1 and stage 2 but I have opened all chests. Is there any bug that duplicates keys (like getting killed after opening the chest, perhaps) ?
Another question I never got an answer for, How does Gamer Fan work, do I need it on an active party member, or commander is ok? How much does it increase the droprate, should I bother with using it in Weekend now that the drop rates are already much better?
Speaking about the final boss of the non-expansion, crazy would be what I did, I used one party only for all 3 phases. They were around lv 80 though, and I had the luxury of having the Ice Sword for Sakuya. I wish I had recorded it, but I forgot and my characters are far too high level now to be worth doing it now.
Edit : I encountered a weird bug right now. I was doing Lithos's material quest and after switching the party to Lithos+Patchy as commander, I touched an enemy, and after that random encounter, got a quest completed message and the reward. Being confused about it, I ended up touching another random encounter, which was the 10 hairballs for the quest, but I'm not sure if got the quest reward for killing them (although I did get one more material from the drops and an adamantine shard.) The funny part is, the boss enemy icon for the quest was still there after these two battles. Fighting the boss icon gave me the correct enemies (the 10 hairballs again), and got the material reward again, too. So in the end, I got 3 Lizard Tails from one quest...
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Edit : I encountered a weird bug right now. I was doing Lithos's material quest and after switching the party to Lithos+Patchy as commander, I touched an enemy, and after that random encounter, got a quest completed message and the reward. Being confused about it, I ended up touching another random encounter, which was the 10 hairballs for the quest, but I'm not sure if got the quest reward for killing them (although I did get one more material from the drops and an adamantine shard.) The funny part is, the boss enemy icon for the quest was still there after these two battles. Fighting the boss icon gave me the correct enemies (the 10 hairballs again), and got the material reward again, too. So in the end, I got 3 Lizard Tails from one quest...
That happened to me with cirno.
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I've finally gotten back into this game. I'd been playing it in Japanese before the patch, then once I got the English version working I wanted to start over (since I hadn't gotten too far) but got caught up in a few other things and never finished. Once Weekend was announced, I decided to wait on that (though I'm playing on the original difficulty, I'm just happy to have stuff like easier learning Satori spells and getting drops).
So I start it up today, and Byakuren got 4 Last Words off while I was wandering around Stage 1. Two of them hit 190%, one of which was during the fight with Koakuma. Wow...I'm usually not this lucky.
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If Sanae's your leader, I can see why. She makes Last Words fire off more often.
Also, I have no idea what happened here, but when I got Youmu I maxed out her Katana proficiency. Now whenever I Last Word with Youmu, she'll periodically perform the Last Word AGAIN. It's rare, but I was surprised when it first happened. 0.o
Still no luck with the damn missing silver key in the Netherworld, but ah well.
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No, Reimu was in the lead of the party and Aya was my commander.
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If Sanae's your leader, I can see why. She makes Last Words fire off more often.
Also, I have no idea what happened here, but when I got Youmu I maxed out her Katana proficiency. Now whenever I Last Word with Youmu, she'll periodically perform the Last Word AGAIN. It's rare, but I was surprised when it first happened. 0.o
Still no luck with the damn missing silver key in the Netherworld, but ah well.
Youmu has "Physical attacks may be performed twice" in her growth tree I think. Most likely her Last Word counts as a physical attack.
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Yay, starting this up in a bit to then promptly sit around for Byakuren!
Just for clarification, would I have to make it easy mode or whatever to change drop rates and satori stuff? I'm unsure. Is there somewhere I can look for the changes from this and Summer Heat?
Thanks!
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Drop and learning rates are higher in Weekend regardless of whether you enable easy mode or not.
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So I started a new game on this and ran into something rather damn amusing as I've never seen it happen before.
In Stage 1 in the room with the silver chest & key, I run into the fairy blocking something in the NE part of the room (Koakuma) and it just...disappears. No battle, no anything.
So I figured I got off easy and decided to nuke every random in this room.
First random I pick on? Koakuma surprises the team. Ok what did not expect that one. Pretty hilarious TBH.
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I've seen a fairy disappear from the screen once as well, but it wasn't any special encounter.
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... About Satori, are Bio, Comet and Punish the Judgement good ?
I learned Medoroa, Meteor, Medullite Beam, Dark Giga Flare and Cosmic Liner but only Medoroa is good, while Cosmic Liner is not that bad but it's a spell so when I'm using Starlight Barrier I have to wait 6 turns, meh.
Also tried melee Satori but Medoroa is just too good.
Oh and, I don't care about MP cost ... for now.
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I hear Bio is good for a cheap void skill, but I haven't actually used it, so I wouldn't know what it's power is. It's easy to learn though once you get near the end of expansion; those void enemies use it a lot and it's got like, 33% learn rate.
Punish the Judgment is -great-. It even ignores divine barrier if light land is maxed. Getting it is a bit of a doozy though; it's from a miniboss fight in the final stage, and after a bit, it will start -spamming- PtJ, and it -hurts-. You have to bring in a party specifically set up to take very heavy Light magic hits for many turns in a row, as the best way to beat it is probably waiting until it's out of MP, at least when you're first fighting it. And when I say heavy, I mean if you're unprepared everyone might take 1000+ damage. It's pretty great, though; there's a video of Satori being used as pretty much the only attacker against the EX final boss, spamming that skill.
Comet I'm not as sure how useful it is; I mean, it's pretty strong, but you've got a lot of other "pretty strong" skills, it's like a slightly weaker all-target bomb version of Medoroa iirc? There's Yukkuri applicants that might work, but you've got meteor and medoroa for hitting yukkuris, assuming they work for that, which I never tested, but I think they do... Dark Giga Flare similarly is more of a random battle spell, since you rarely need multi-target against a boss and Cosmic Liner is better for single-target.
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Punish the judgment is awesome and strong and godly and all her other spells are nothing compared to it. Like Serela said, you really need to be well-prepared, as even with star light resistance you'll be taking around 250 damage on your characters a turn when Seraph starts spamming it.
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Ok. so... I've mastered all of Sakuya's great sword skills and according to her last one (Full Moon Revenge) it says she gets able to attack thrice. But she isn't attacking three times at all for me, rather... it's still just a single regular hit. Is the activation based on luck?
Also, what are good places to collect regular materials, such as iron... bamboo... etc? I'm really lacking iron and I need it to craft some stuff. :/
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Full Moon Revenge is an attack technique. You have to equip it.
I ran through Forest of Magic 2 a few times in search for iron, got a lot (2-3) each time. This was pre-weekend.
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The game is a LOT looser about crafting materials now (Drop rates are p.much doubled across the board, sometimes more, and recipes take less of them as well), but you still aren't going to be able to expect to craft everything; just try to stick to stuff that seems rather important.
Plus, the less character-specific crafting materials you use now, the less you'll need to farm in expansion via subquests. Subquests make it so it's not too hard to get more, but having to do less of them never hurts either.
The stage's four-flavor mook enemies (Often fairies holding various equipments) are what drop most of the crafting materials. I don't think they drop them in the first few stages, though.
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Does the Gamer Fan's effect work when held by the commander, or does it have to be an active participant in battle?
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@Void Damage vs Yukkuri: I don't think Void type does anything extra to Yukkuris. I could be wrong here, but I believe it still does that normal 1 to 2 damage.
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That's because they have also have 999 mdef. However, Meteor/Comet/Medoroa (Not 100% sure on medoroa) ignore mdef.
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Does the Gamer Fan's effect work when held by the commander, or does it have to be an active participant in battle?
I believe nobody even know how it works, how much it raises the drop rate or anything like that.
The last thing I've seen about it said it adds a flat 0.1% chance to every drop rate, and its upgrade adds a flat 0.2% chance, or something like that.
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I see. I know Medoroa does not do a thing against Yukkuri, because I reflected that when I fought the Reimu yukkuri quest. I am unsure about the other spells though.
I don't know if those spells mentioned actually ignore magic defense. I could be wrong on this though, I'll check on this sometime.
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I believe nobody even know how it works, how much it raises the drop rate or anything like that.
The last thing I've seen about it said it adds a flat 0.1% chance to every drop rate, and its upgrade adds a flat 0.2% chance, or something like that.
That's... pretty bad, really. If that's really accurate, then no wonder I'm not noticing any effect.
I would still like to know if it works when held by the commander, but if nobody actually knows, then, well, not much I can do about that.
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That's... pretty bad, really. If that's really accurate
I'm probably the one that dug that up (part of my analyzing the item tables and effects). Unless I messed up and it was supposed to be one or two percent (by shifting the decimal point) it should be accurate. Even though the value is really low, it would still result in doubling or tripling the drop rate of very rare items like the Ancient Scroll and other ultimate crafting items (which had a 0.1% drop rate).
I have no idea what it might have been changed to in Weekend as I haven't asked TheNewGuy for the updated tables.
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Completed Muenzuka - and Komachi taught Shinigami Scythe to Satorin, too! Getting Satori to Level 30 is easy once Aya teaches Sonic Stream, and you realize there's this one spot 2 screens down from the Muenzuka Entrance that will almost always spawn 1 Yukkuri somewhere in the zone. :3
(I know there are at least 2 other spots but I cannot get that to appear with any regularity.)
Speaking of Yukkuris, anyone managed to Control one? I want the Energy Hand spell. <_< Even at over 100 IND and in the IND-boosting formation, with Youmu halving resistance, the damn game just refuses to let me control a Yukkuri.
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I don't think they're meant to be controlled. They are metal slimes, after all.
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Just put Satori in the baiting position of a formation, go Yukkuri hunting, and pray they don't target anyone else.
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I still couldn't find the recipe for the upgraded Excalibur, and I have done every quest except the expansion final boss and the bonus dungeon. Anyone knows how to get those recipes?
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I think you get a set of recipes for encountering the expansion final boss.
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Oh, so I'm supposed to go there, start the battle, then lose? That's...unexpected.
Thanks, I got them!
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Ok, I have a few questions:
1) What enemy drops the "sunflower seed" item? I need more of them apart from the 2 ones found during stage 8 in order to craft some weapons.
2) ...How am I supposed to do the side quests? I can't find them anywhere. By that, I mean stuff like the Nazrin boss battle.
3) How can I unlock the 5 extra characters from the summer expansion?
4) It's required to split the group in two during stage 9, right? I hated that because I focused all of my levels only on the party I use. All the others are still on level 1. But I still have at least 7 characters on level 25+ (Youmu, Sakuya, Aya, Mokou, Sanae, Marisa and Patchouli). So, I think best thing to do is having group X with 4 characters while group Y with only 3 characters... hopefully I'll be able to survive. Anyway, the question is... I want to know if there are more stages apart from 9 that forces you to split groups as well. (I hope not)
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Nearly all the enemies in the Garden of The Sun drop sunflower seeds. Monster Sunflower, that gourd, and a few of the fairies do too.
What I do is just look through the Bestiary after clearing an area, that way I'll know what the different enemies there drop.
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Nearly all the enemies in the Garden of The Sun drop sunflower seeds. Monster Sunflower, that gourd, and a few of the fairies do too.
What I do is just look through the Bestiary after clearing an area, that way I'll know what the different enemies there drop.
Nevermind, I just got 2 sunflower seeds from the... uhh... sunflower enemies. And two of them at once on the same battle, so... that's enough to craft Suzaku Fan and Magnum Steel.
...Anyway, what about the other questions?
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2. Side quests are expansion only. You have to complete the main game first (stage 21).
3. You get them from quests in the expansion (so you can't use them in the main game)
4. There is one more area where you have to split up to 3 parties. Additionally, you can (but don't need to) use 2 parties against the final boss, and 3 against the expansion final boss. At the end of the split areas there are bosses, so be prepared.
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Thank you for the answers.
Anyway... I started leveling up byakuren and opted to focus on her support skills. Is this a good choice or should I use her for debuffing/inflicting status effects only?
Also, for the last skill on her Support Magic tree (Offset -> Overwrite):
"Condition statuses that would cancel each other out now get overwritten instead"
Eh? Can someone translate this to me lol? Preferably with an example if possible.
Besides, Alice seems to be quite complicated to use... any tips on what strategy to use with her?
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Byakuren is the best buffer in the game. Even if she doesn't do anything else than buffing attack and matk, that in itself is enough to use her. Her damage output is kinda uninteresting, but she has dark and light elements, out of which, dark is rare, and light can help filling up the land for your light nukers (Reimu, Patchouli, etc). Her debuffs are pretty powerful, too, the few bosses vulnerable to these can be rendered harmless by casting a single power down or unquick.
"Condition statuses that would cancel each other out now get overwritten instead"
Means if you cast ATK up on a character that has ATK down on her, then you end up with a character that has ATK up instead of one that has nothing.
Alice, well, I only use her in 3 ways :
- In a column formation, Marionette Parrar with a good shield can boost your defense insanely (expect to see everyone take 0 damage from all attacks the shield works on, very often)
-London Dolls can cover a selected character so if you have a character that can't survive on her own, you can make sure she will, so you can focus entirely on offense for that char. This is especially useful on Patchouli or Marisa.
-Little Legion can cover the whole party for a turn, but has cooldown. Usually, Alice can survive taking damage instead of all 5 people, but in case of party wiping attacks, you can use also her as a sacrifice to eat the damage, then you only need to resurrect one character instead of many. However, there aren't much attacks in the game she can't reduce to 0 or minimal damage with a star resist in the proper element.
I didn't really use any of her remaining skills because skipping a turn on Marionette Parrar is suicide.
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Well... if Byakuren is the best buffer (I thought it was Sanae) Then I'll definitively use her as one. But maybe I can try debuffing as well depending on the vulnerability of the boss. And thanks for explaining the Offset -> Overwrite. Now things are perfectly clear.
As for Alice... Number 1 and Number 3 seems to be the most useful from what I could see through the explanation. I'll change between them depending on the situation.
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On rare occasions Alice's elemental resist/absorb skills come in handy too, and her Doll's War spellcard boosts the effectiveness of shields (including Parrar) to a significant degree, so that can be nifty too. If you invest into her field-boosting POW tree it lasts a pretty long time. Of course, that's for a lot later in.
You can feel free to experiment on character uses since you can always reset your POW allocation, and you -definitely- want to have all the characters leveled up. You don't need to grind to do this; just make sure to switch in lower leveled characters when you're making a party to tackle the next stage.
Sanae is also a great buffer, since her buffs target everyone; Byakuren's non-offense buffs apart from Amplifying Scroll are too much effort to apply onto the entire party, after all, and Sanae's healing capabilities are stronger along with having Resurrrection skills.
Overwrite almost always isn't useful and can be ignored (Letting you save a bunch of POW points for something else); especially since, even if a boss debuffs you, -they- don't have overwrite, so you only have to reapply your own buff.
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My Byakuen's specced for Control/Charm (high IND. ALL the TIME. The only buff she has on her is Trigger, her others are Unresist and that bog standard Mdef Dwn attack). Byakuen's buffs are nice and all (and AWESOME as you max out her Buff tree), but this is a game where a turn wasted on a powerful enemy can be LETHAL, and I found wasting too many turns buffing the party isn't a good idea (nor do I have enough points to max out her Scroll tree).
It's all good, her job is to control enemies into attacking Satorin (so she can pick up skills), and help in item hunting - I hardly ever bring her to a boss battle.
- In a column formation, Marionette Parrar with a good shield can boost your defense insanely (expect to see everyone take 0 damage from all attacks the shield works on, very often)
Plus, once you learn any skill with the keyword [Marionette Parrar] in this you don't need to be in a column formation anymore. Sure its not as effective outside of Free Fight, but that's what the Phalanx is for.
OR you can boost Alice's Craft tree and bring Hourai Doll and Tibetian Doll into battle.
Whichever strat you use, DO NOT FORGET SPECTRUM MYSTERY. It's not a Parrar but you have no idea how many times a teamwide autoshield elemental defense saved my hide, or nulled boss effectiveness to oblivion.
Give Alice the Best Shield You Have. Always. (She does pretty well with the -ROM shields, which can block ANYTHING... and since this is Alice, activation chance? What activation chance?)
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Hmmm... seems like there are even more strategies to use with Alice. Thank you guys... Mine is already at level 27, so, she does have quite enough POW points to max at least a single skill tree. And as for Byakuren... Amplyfying scroll proved to be rather useful for me during my last boss battle on stage 9. At least it's better than having to power up the party members stats one after another. Too bad byakuren won't learn more buffs of this nature.
Anyway... omg, Reimu is TRASH. According to what I read, the best thing you can do is using her as a light magic powerhouse... but even with my Spirit Attack Tree maxed and using "Fantasy Seal Concentrate" she still only does really, really low damage, even against enemies that are weak to Light. For seriously... she is only wasting a space on my party formation. If light magic is the only thing she is good for and yet she doesn't do it right... then I don't see much point in keeping her on my team. Is there not any way to make her actually useful? Maybe as a support/healing member or something?
By the way, from what I can see Nitori can't do much neither. Akin to Reimu, her status are extremely balanced and as such, she doesn't excel at anything. But well... perhaps she can be good against bosses with low physical defense and an elemental weakness... I suppose.
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Reimu can use Evil Sealing Circle and Duplex Barrier-type moves. You'll be needing her in certain boss battles. Aside from that, I don't know how to use Nitori or Reimu. Nitori could be useful as a commander, with her camouflage.
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I find that Nitori, once she gets some bombs, is a VERY effective damage dealer.
She's generally teamed up with Patchouli for Chaser abuse though.
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Both Reimu and Nitori become considerably better after you get good versions of their personal weapons. Reimu is exactly that Light powerhouse you've read about, but she needs a bit more investment than just maximizing her Light growth tree (Exorcism is a lot better than it for damage, in my opinion), so try giving her a few accessories and see how well she might fare. Nitori is basically the number one humanoid killer in the game with any gun, and she can also do a lot of damage with 25 points in her Gun tree so you get Rage Eight/Lazy Eight/Radiate/whatever. Her spell card damage is also a lot higher than her damage with normal skills, and there are the aforementioned chasers too.
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Reimu is a very good character in my opinion. She can
- Provide the most reliable full party healing (it's area targeting so use a proper formation, Hyper Library for example is great with her in center), her healing doesn't cost much MP, heals a lot, costs no bomb and has no cooldown. Area Heal from Satori is about similar, except that Satori is much more fragile than Reimu, and she is more vulnerable to status.
- Do the best Light element damage in the game. Her first 2 bomb skill has no cooldown, so you can spam it 4-5 times, for heavy damage. Her spells are heavily depending on Light land levels, expect to see double damage or more on maximum land, and 0 on maximum dark land. Her weapons provide a considerable boost to her damage, as does her skill trees. To use Reimu effectively, you will need to max out the 1st, 2nd and 3rd trees, and for RES, put the remaining points into the 4th tree. Amulets that boost light damage are also useful as is MATK equipment. Putting her into a spot with an MATK bonus in the formation is also important. I recommend Hyper Library because the center spot is both ideal for healing the whole party AND has a good MATK boost.
- She has excellent RES. You can easily reach 100+ with only your weapon and armor, having all your accessory slots open for damage or defense, making her immune to all status. (4th tree has +40 RES) This makes her excellent at surviving attacks because you can use all 3 accessory slots for damage reduction items, while still being immune to all status.
- Not only is she immune to all status with proper RES, but she can also remove some from the whole party with her normal healing spells. If the speed is set up well, your characters can even take their turn after Reimu removes the paralyze from them.
- Her barriers can give you a whole turn of invincibility against devastating boss attacks. Many bosses use such attacks at a predictable time, for example after concentration, so you can neutralize them.
-She can also remove status effects if necessary like Sanae.
-Most of her attacks ignore reflect, and she can also ignore some of mdef and shields.
If you want to use her effectively, you should farm for power levels.
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Overwrite almost always isn't useful and can be ignored (Letting you save a bunch of POW points for something else); especially since, even if a boss debuffs you, -they- don't have overwrite, so you only have to reapply your own buff.
Overwrite is useless in terms of overwriting enemy debuffs. However, it is excellent when you want to re-apply your buffs/debufs early, which you should always do. This is important against bosses like the terminator where you want to reapply the status effect before it goes away in case you fail.
@Reimu: Reimu's magic is unimpressive unless you face specific enemies. Her healing and barrier skills make her shine, she is pretty much your go to girl for your AoE healing needs. Preventing 1 attack to your whole group is big and prevents party wipes or against Mind Flayers, party paralysis. Her healing can also remove some permanent stat effects, which is very good.
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@Reimu: Reimu's magic is unimpressive unless you face specific enemies.
I found it great against everything that didn't resist light. 20-30k damage to enemies neutral to light with only 2 turns cooldown, or somewhat less with no cooldown (which is great to fill up land with light before the big one), and 4-6k damage from the 0 cooldown non-card attacks. This to endgame bosses, like the Elder Dragon. I have yet to find a character that does more damage than her (although I have to admit I didn't bother trying quite a number of them because I didn't need them...). Enemies weak to light go down so fast it's a joke. (Flandre takes 86k from a buffed up Neo Fantasy Heaven)
At the first half of the game, what made her impressive was that you could spam Fantasy Heaven each turn, while most other bomb spells on the characters I used had long cooldowns, so she could do a lot of damage in a small amount of turns, and also fill Light land really fast meanwhile.
Overwrite is useless in terms of overwriting enemy debuffs. However, it is excellent when you want to re-apply your buffs/debufs early, which you should always do. This is important against bosses like the terminator where you want to reapply the status effect before it goes away in case you fail.
I don't have overwrite and can still cast my spells early without any problem. This ability comes from the 10 point ability in the same tree, the 25 point one is unnecessary.
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Reimu's one of those characters who starts out middling and becomes crazy-awesome later.
Believe it or not, she can actually be a better healer than Sanae, even if she learns her non-Bomb heal later! In fact, you max out her Barrier tree, suddenly her version of the piddly Ofuda of Healing is an AOE. In comparison, while Sanae gets her AOE healing earlier, Sanae absolutely MUST use a bomb to AOE heal - and Satori's learned ones are expensive.
Not to mention Reimu gets a complete set of Debuff removal spells very early...
That said, those 1-turn target all Bomb Barriers where she shines - the 2 I've learnt so far are pretty much Guaranteed No-Sells (vs Status and Damage respectively). With aforementioned maxed Barrier tree, they take precedence over almost anything! Alice Guard s the only other Guaranteed No-Sell spell, but it works only on Alice - and its a Last Word.
Low damage output? Fine - build her as the barrier mage she shoulda been!
- She has excellent RES. You can easily reach 100+ with only your weapon and armor, having all your accessory slots open for damage or defense, making her immune to all status. (4th tree has +40 RES) This makes her excellent at surviving attacks because you can use all 3 accessory slots for damage reduction items, while still being immune to all status.
If you're not far enough in leveling her yet, just put 3 points into her Concentration tree. Watch her shake Paralysis and Lethal Poison off at end of turn, VERY VERY OFTEN.
As for Nitori: she's all about the Chasers. You can do this before Stage 6:
1) Have Satori learn Flame and Frost, give'em to her. And maybe EM Wave, too.
2) Equip Patchy's all-hit Fire, Water and Wind attacks.
3) Build Nitori's Chaser tree until she has at least +1 Chaser Activation. Equip Fire, Ice and Thunder Chasers.
Laugh as Nitori hits EVERYTHING with a laced physical as your build-a-mages cast their all-hit elemental attacks - giving her like 2 attacks every time she casts a Chaser. Oh, and because it's partially physical, even enemies that don't take damage from the all-hit spells *take damage from the Chaser because it's a physical attack*.
For even more lulz, build her Chaser tree until she has 0 recovery for her Chasers, then build her Gun tree because those damage bonuses *are included in the Chaser activation*. And once Marisa learns her multitarget elemental spells, you can boost Nitori's Chaser tree further to get +2 Chaser Activation, and include HER in the fun. Its even useful against bosses that don't have a physical resist somewhat - just swap your build-a-mages into single-target elemental spells to save MP.
Nitori's other speciality is Elemental Physical Attacks. (She's the antithesis of Alice - Alice has Elemental Defends). She'll get a spell that laces her bullets with an elemental effect of your choice. Her Bomb attacks are STRONG elemental physicals that have the power of her Last Word at least. The only thing that can stop her? Physical resist. I still prefer using her as Chaser girl, tho.
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Overwrite is useless in terms of overwriting enemy debuffs. However, it is excellent when you want to re-apply your buffs/debufs early, which you should always do. This is important against bosses like the terminator where you want to reapply the status effect before it goes away in case you fail.
Overwrite doesn't do this. What does is an ability that's much earlier in the POW tree. Oh, someone already said that XD
As for Nitori, Chaser Abuse via Patch+Satori (And situationally, Sanae with Rainbow serpent, or Marisa for against a boss, etc) works awesomely. As well, her gun boosts slayer damage, so the slayers on them are very strong; and, ignoring Perfect Dodge comes in handy on some targets (Yuyuko, yukkuris). But really, her specialty? Damage boost hitting weaknesses/elemental power boost. Her own spellcards? If you slap on an elemental buff on her physical (YES this does make her elemental skills stronger, by a buttload, on a weak target), she then facemelts with her spellcard. I'm talking "Oh I just one-shotted Yuyuko" facemelting. If she's got Slayer though, that works fine, especially if herself or Byakuren can get her to hit a boss weakness as well for massive damage.
As for chasers, also very good, and more universally easy to set up. As well; if you equip a weapon with a chance to hit in a AoE, -that applies to every chaser hit-, multiplying the damage she does significantly. Instant Death axes also work after you get her physical-element chasers, ba-bam, chasing physical attacks to slam the enemy with Instant Death and decent damage. Eventually (in expansion), she starts falling behind in damage on targets she can't slayer-hit; but she's always at least a viable choice with elemental weakness hitting, and she gains strong support skills to back her up, like her own lower-cooldown version of Starlight Barrier, and more situationally, Chameleon Camouflage.
Too bad chasers are falling behind in damage, even if you really pump her up for it with accessories and Apollo Break formation and everything, by the time you get Cirno. I mean, three all-target chasers? Before then you have to use Sanae's elec or Marisa's singletargets to get a third activation in randoms. (Although Sanae can hit a lot with Rainbow Serpent, and drain mp with a snake weapon, so it works pretty well... also can buff your Patk or Matk if you don't need her hit.)
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Well... I just tested Reimu and Nitori with different strategies some more and I kinda take back what I said about them.
Reimu:
I just maxed her barrier tree and as it was said before... her Area Healing skill is really useful and even better than sanae's spells of this category. But I think Reimu only gets truly good on level 31 and up. Since according to touhou wiki, she learns Omnidirectional Dragon Slaying Circle and Encompassing Tiger Stripe Circle. Since it targets the whole party, it will probably really come in hand against certain bosses... not to mention that with the barrier tree maxed, you even get upgraded versions of those moves. Her duplex barrier also proves to be good on several occasions... so, I'll definitively use her as a Support Character instead of a Light Damage Dealer. Seravy said that in order for her to deal decent damage, you'd need to max 3 trees and from my perspective it costs way too much effort. Definitively I won't be able to do so until really later in the game... not to mention you also have to be inside the Light Land Effect and stuff.
Nitori:
Well... I tried both the "main" strategies you guys told me (Chasers/Gun Tree Maxed) and from what I could tell, chasers are better against common youkai groups when you have patchy or satori on the team, but the damage itself isn't so great against bosses, even though I powered up the Research Skill Tree until Elemental Research 3 and the Equip Tree until Offense Enchance 3. I'm not saying the damage was low, but I expected a bit more. And as for the Guns... Rage Eight deals much more damage against a single enemy than a chaser, so it might be better to trade to guns against bosses. Not to mention you can buff her PATK with some character for extra damage on all of the consecutive hits as well as using Elemental Bullet to exploit the boss's weakness for even further damage.
On a side unrelated note and now that yukkuris were mentioned... according to my experience, I think the best members to kill them are Youmu (Yukkuri Slash), Sakuya (Full Moon Revenge), Mokou (Mach Punch) and Nitori (Rage Eight). It's also really adequate to use aya as a commander for Paparazzi. (Maybe patchouli on the remaining slot with Knowledge Storage maxed)
(Anyway... I'm still quite new on how to use those characters, so I might be saying crap)
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I was never able to figure out how to use chasers well, Rage Eight being spammable each turn, hitting 4-8 times, when chasers only seemed to provide one hit/ spell casted for one turn only (so at best 4 hits). Maybe I'm doing something wrong or it's just not that effective in the late game anymore? I never bothered to try it in the early game because most stuff weak to elemental magic died to Patchy+Satori's all targeting spells anyway, so I mainly used Nitori against enemies strong against magic, and as a countermesaure against mind flayers (slayer against transcendent on her gun was very nice for that).
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Magic:Well, against a boss, you'd probably want to chase at least 3 hits to use Chasers.
As well, if someone's attack is elementally enchanted, Nitori will chase that; and if you use Byakuren to enchant someone, you can do it off multihit attacks... and Nitori chases every hit.
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her Area Healing skill is really useful and even better than sanae's spells of this category.
Wanna know whats better? You can now also heal Paralyze, Blind and any level of Poison with your Ofuda of Healing or Aura Gem. Pretty useful indeed! Too bad this doesn't apply to Reimu's Last Word, but we can't have everything...
For Petrify, Charm, Zombie and Control tho, it won't work - you'd probably need the Ofuda of Curing, or someone else with a Permanent Status Removal.
Sanae does get a Bomb Resurrection to make up for her lack of such an ability tho, so don't let the Other Shrine Maiden lag behind.
On a side unrelated note and now that yukkuris were mentioned... according to my experience, I think the best members to kill them are Youmu (Yukkuri Slash), Sakuya (Full Moon Revenge), Mokou (Mach Punch) and Nitori (Rage Eight). It's also really adequate to use aya as a commander for Paparazzi. (Maybe patchouli on the remaining slot with Knowledge Storage maxed)
Youmu can kill a bog standard Yukkuri on her own - give her all the accuracy mods you can (ALL of Them) so she'll never miss. Her Yukkuri Slash does 2/hit instead of the usual 1 (3 on crit); with any weapon that has the upgrade "chance of attacking twice" she could potentially OHKO the thing (which has only 4hp). YuKIRI Shitte Ne indeed.
Sonic Stream is awesome for Yukkuri Hunting. Read the side effect of the formation: Yes, *your party will always move first. Unless they're surprised,* To get this, keep taking pictures of enemies with Aya; eventually she'll come up with this when you visit the Hakurei Shrine to save. To counter this formation's main weakness, Max out Aya's Air War tree.
Unfortunately, it doesn't help me get the damn Energy Hand skill (when I try to wait the Yukkuri RUNS instead) =.=. Also, it only applies to the 1k xp Yukkuri. Any other variety that has more than 5 HP and will require a bit more planning...
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Against Yukkuris, especially the ones with more HP in later stages, Aya+Sakuya is a guaranteed win. Make Aya give her turn to Sakuya and use Private Square. Flee, dodge, etc are all ignored in Private Square, so it's 9 guaranteed hits from Full Moon Slash, although you won't need that many unless you get attacked by several of them in the same battle. If you encounter weaker Yukkuris, and are 100% certainthat you can kill them in a turn, Illusionary Dominance for going first and unleashing all your multi-hit physicals works, too.
Also, void element attacks are not effective against them, those do 0 damage, at least the one I tried did. Cosmic Supercluster seems to be an exception, it does 3 damage to all of them.
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As well, if someone's attack is elementally enchanted, Nitori will chase that; and if you use Byakuren to enchant someone, you can do it off multihit attacks... and Nitori chases every hit.
Wow really!? I didn't know that she could do that nor that she'd chase every hit. Then I think enchanting the weapons of characters with consecutive hits skills would make nitori become a monster! The boss would really take several hits in a single turn.
Wanna know whats better? You can now also heal Paralyze, Blind and any level of Poison with your Ofuda of Healing or Aura Gem. Pretty useful indeed! Too bad this doesn't apply to Reimu's Last Word, but we can't have everything...
For Petrify, Charm, Zombie and Control tho, it won't work - you'd probably need the Ofuda of Curing, or someone else with a Permanent Status Removal.
Speaking of that... is there not anyone with a skill that can remove the whole party's status effects instead of one after another? I'm asking that because it was really a pain in the ass for me to defeat Reisen since she kept inflicting an avalanche of status on me and PATK debuffing. It took me a lot of luck and several tries to beat her, but that was just because of her annoyance... other than that, she is quite weak per se. Tewi on other hand... was plain pathetic.
@Seravy:
Well... for multiple yukkuris, I think Sonic Stream formation mentioned by achicken could work if all your characters can do multiple hits along with the help of Cosmic Supercluster. It'd require a bit of luck, though.
...also, could someone please give me a screenshot on where the Rage Choker II is located on stage 9? I'm nearly giving up on trying to find it and that explanation from touhou wiki is really confusing. Seriously... Right Side East Thicket - I , Right Side North - L , Right Side whatever... ugh, my head... @.@
I think it'd be really helpful and much better if someone came with a map guide such as this (http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/588330-final-fantasy-iv/faqs/48623).
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Eventually (in expansion), she starts falling behind in damage on targets she can't slayer-hit; but she's always at least a viable choice with elemental weakness hitting, and she gains strong support skills to back her up, like her own lower-cooldown version of Starlight Barrier, and more situationally, Chameleon Camouflage.
In my opinion, she gets either better or at least as good as she was before the expansion, simply ebcause of Lithos. Have her use Pegasus Meteor, then chase whatever weapon she used with that, and bam, look at all the damage that pops up. Weapon chasers seem to be considerably stronger than elemental chasers, and then there's Multi Chaser (which sadly seems to prorate awfully, so the strategy mentioned above doesn't apply too well) which is pretty darn strong too.
Yukkuri
My favorite strategy for dealing with them so far is using Sonic Stream, having Aya on your party, using all those multihit attacks and Tengu's Downwards Wind or whatever it's called in the translation so you never miss.
Speaking of that... is there not anyone with a skill that can remove the whole party's status effects instead of one after another? I'm asking that because it was really a pain in the ass for me to defeat Reisen since she kept inflicting an avalanche of status on me and PATK debuffing. It took me a lot of luck and several tries to beat her, but that was just because of her annoyance... other than that, she is quite weak per se. Tewi on other hand... was plain pathetic.
Sanae learns something that does that and revives everyone at level 57.
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Well... nevermind about the Rage Choker II... I just found it after watching a Let's Play of the stage. I feel stupid now... >.>
Anyway... I have another question, since I just slayed 2500 youkai (I think before completing stage 10 this is quite something) Akyuu rewarded me with some really good recipes, those including the PDEF 140 elemental armors. But first I need the elemental crystals to craft them... problem is that I don't have enough elemental shards for any of those. So... where should I go to farm them?
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If you check the bestiary it tells you what monsters drop what, so you know!
I'm pretty sure the big boss mook type things give them out though. I think I got a wind one from Sylph in Heaven and an Earth one from that Rock thing in Garden of the Sun, though I can't be sure.
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I don't know if it was ever fixed, but there was a nice bug/unintended effect with Nitori where if you gave her weapon an element (mostly likely with Elemental Bullet) the -1 cooldown from Ammo Preparation would apply to her physical skills like Radiate.
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Elemental cooldown reductions work with ? element skills when they contain the appropriate element, just like all other elemental bonuses. It's not a glitch; it's the same as spear POW tree's cooldown deduction on Pierce-element skills, which are almost always ? element with Pierce from your weapon.
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I'm not too impressed with Nitori's damage output later in the expansion. Even with the Shade 2010, Nitori's damage output isn't all that amazing. The problem is, if Nitori chases, you are gauranteed to never get a second attack. This means Youmu can never double cast her Cycling Realm Slash. However, early in the expansion, and in the main game, Nitori is excellent. Having her chase 2 or 3 AoE attacks lets her make short work of her opponents.
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Nitori's damage output is nice in the expansion, but you have to either be A.Chasing a lot of multi-hitting attacks (Like, for ice, it could be Sakuya's multi-hit attacks, and Full Moon Revenge is a piece of crap at this point btw, plus Lithos' Pegasus Meteor since with Rainbow Wings her elemental damage is boosted drastically), or be hitting with a slayer effect. Her damage for hitting with a weakness using elementally enchanted weapon hits with her spellcards and her lv8x noncards is passable... although not particularly high, as she hasn't gotten a new spellcard since forever, and her new noncards are only about on par with her spellcards.
On the upside, she also gains useful support camouflages by now.
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"Facepalm Moment" is defined by only realizing that you need Satori at Level 40 to learn Leaf Shield AFTER getting 200+ escapes to your record. DOH.
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...By the way, is it embarassing to play on easy mode? I won't deny this really makes the game quite easy, but it's still challenging nonetheless, especially if you don't come up with the right strategy. I mean... if it wasn't for Touhou Wiki telling me the correct strategy to beat stage 10 and 11's bosses (Using control/berserker/charm on kaguya and the status immunity spell with reimu against cirno's perfect freeze) then I'd probably be still stuck on them, even though my characters are slightly overleveled.
Like... I'm recording all of my boss battles to put on youtube afterwards, but it's just that I'm rather afraid of a retard coming and commenting "eww... easy modo" or something like that. To be honest, I wasn't even aware you were able to shift between easy and original when I first got the game... and considering that easy is the default on GoS weekend, then maybe it'd not be that shameful to use said mode on this version of the game?
Perhaps I can take original, but I'm not entirely sure since I never tried it yet. I'd at least like to know how much "less damage you deal" and how much "more damage you take"
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God... I feel stupid now... sorry everyone, didn't even notice that I double posted by accident. (How did that even happen anyway?) >.>
Feel free to delete it.
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I thought Ezmodo doesn't apply to bosses... in any case, The RPGs made by *this particular designer* (he, or his team, apparently also did the Defiant series) are all notoriously hard/grindy, so I don't think anyone would mind.
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I've been recording a Let's Play of Weekend with easy mode on but I can't say how much of a difference there is between easy and normal for bosses. When I originally played the game (and never finished), I was lazy and did not shuffle points around or party members much even if certain fights were easier with them. Now I shuffle points and swap characters if necessary (plus I am leveling everyone since I know what is waiting for me in Eientei). I do seem to be doing much better in random encounters though (only died a couple of times from them). Boss wise, I have only beaten Yuyuko and Youmu recently so I can't really say if I have gotten to the more difficult parts yet.
As for people complaining, I haven't uploaded my parts yet so don't know. But if people have problems with it, they can record their own stuff on normal mode if they really feel like it. XD
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...By the way, is it embarassing to play on easy mode? I won't deny this really makes the game quite easy, but it's still challenging nonetheless, especially if you don't come up with the right strategy. I mean... if it wasn't for Touhou Wiki telling me the correct strategy to beat stage 10 and 11's bosses (Using control/berserker/charm on kaguya and the status immunity spell with reimu against cirno's perfect freeze) then I'd probably be still stuck on them, even though my characters are slightly overleveled.
Like... I'm recording all of my boss battles to put on youtube afterwards, but it's just that I'm rather afraid of a retard coming and commenting "eww... easy modo" or something like that. To be honest, I wasn't even aware you were able to shift between easy and original when I first got the game... and considering that easy is the default on GoS weekend, then maybe it'd not be that shameful to use said mode on this version of the game?
Perhaps I can take original, but I'm not entirely sure since I never tried it yet. I'd at least like to know how much "less damage you deal" and how much "more damage you take"
No I play with it on.
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Even if I don't eventually crack under pressure and put Easy Mode on, I probably will use it when I'm grinding just so that goes smoother and faster, and I can get back to the actual meat of the game quicker.
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Haven't used Easy mode yet, but I plan to use it for the bonus dungeon and maybe also for item farming on stage 27. The monsters there have crazy high HP and the save circle is too far to be able to use strong, expensive attacks effectively.
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Besides, does anyone know a walkthrough of the game on youtube without voice action from let's plays?
(And is there not a way to view cutscenes again? I was viewing one but then accidentally pressed the skip button and now I can't see it anymore...) ;_;
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You can always look at the Touhou wiki. It has a walkthrough for all the bosses and basic info for all the stages.
Most of the let's plays out there are out of date anyway so their tactics do not work as well anymore. (at least the ones I have seen)
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Mmm, where can I find a cheat engine table or something for this game? I've read that RegalStar apparently used it. But don't get me wrong, I have zero intentions of using it on my playthrough since I'm having a lot of fun with it and cheating would ruin all the fun. (And I'm sure I can take the whole game on easy anyway, it's not being difficult)
But it's just that I want to try some stuff once I finish beating main and expansion modes.
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You have to make it yourself because the addresses change every time you start up the game.
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Well if someone can point me to how to look for the silver key values, I'd appreciate it. It's only so I don't have to futilely search for a key that didn't spawn.
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You have to make it yourself because the addresses change every time you start up the game.
I had made a cheat table for LoT (just for character stats) and people on these boards made the same claim, yet my table worked every single time I launched the game without fail. You just need to get a list of all pointers to a given address and weed out the bad ones. Once you find a good pointer than you can start accessing other stats by using offsets from it.
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That's for Labyrinth of Touhou (right?), some games don't change the addresses like Gensokyo no Nazo. However some games like Genius of Sappheiros change the addresses upon start up.
Um, what are pointers?
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That's for Labyrinth of Touhou (right?)
Yep. And some of those pointers I found would go bad when restarting the game, which is how I weeded them out. Once I had one that was good after restarting the game several times, it stayed valid.
Um, what are pointers?
A data type that holds the address of a block of memory allocated on the heap (with malloc in C, operator new[] in C++). They "point to" to a location in memory, hence they are called pointers.
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If I'm not mistaken, this game changes pointers and stuff every time you leave an area, or something close to that. I remember a way to cheat more items that involved going to Rinnosuke's, crafting basic materials like Iron and stuff, and comparing the values to see which ones would change after you did that. Then it was just a matter of adding/removing 4 bytes to get to the next item on the items list. Kinda complicated at first, but once you get the hang of it it's a breeze. No idea if it still works in Weekend, but I doubt it doesn't.
Obviously, that won't work for items you do not have, keys, drop rates or anything else.
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I tried to play this game just now, but it gives me something like this :
(http://i.imgur.com/nS7D9.png])
(this comes from a friend's save)
Also, the attack animation don't show up at all, neither do the damage number. What is the problem ?
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For the love of god... someone give me a good strategy to beat this @$@!%$ Genji because I've been trying it all day long and none of my strategies worked.
By far the hardest boss I fought so far in the game... I always manage to drop his HP below half but then my characters loses all of their bombs/gets affected by cooldown or something and then I get killed.
If it wasn't for his absurdly high defenses, I'd not need to buff my characters so much to be able to deliver at least "acceptable" damage on him.
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Three things: Byakuren's buffs, light spells (dark works too, but Byakuren is nowhere nearly as reliable at dealing damage as Reimu) and Turtlesmasher (drops from those ugly Pretas, stage 14). Alice is always helpful as well. In fact, I think buffs are the most important thing in this fight because they nearly triple the damage I do. Also, Youmu is basically a Genji-killing machine if you give her that Turtlesmasher I just mentioned.
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Hallelujah! Finally defeated the damn thing... It took me Byakuren, Alice, Youmu, Sakuya and Sanae. But I had to count with a bit of luck as well to meltdown him twice and activate last words (Yasaka's divine wind + dark sword + Sakuya's Perfect world). But now I kinda feel sorry for Genji... Reimu is so cruel... :(
Oh... and I wasn't even aware of the existence of this Turtlesmasher, geez... I should have checked my bestiary before proceeding. Just by looking at the name I'd realize that it's something to kill well... turtles.
Now to stage 16... well, hopefully the boss there won't be that hard.
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Well guess you don't need this then. You can beat him without him getting a turn with this (or almost).
Sakuya's Claymore (slayer vs reptiles)
Stack attack accessories and +40 mp.
Max her Time Stop tree and Two Handed Sword tree. (Private Square, Full Moon Slash)
Patchouli with spell power and spell crit. (Royal Flare)
Byakuren. (Spell Enhance. Light Element enchant)
Sanae with stat buffing tree max. (Attack buff)
Satori with alot of Induction gear and max her debuffing tree. (Defense debuff)
Aya commander bomb to go first.
Just open with Commander Bomb, Royal Flare, Attack Buff, Defense Debuff, Light Enchant on Sakuya, and Private Square. Then just spam Full Moon Slash during the time stop. During the next wave, you can spell buff Patchy for more damage. If you have enough mp, you can keep it going long enough to wear him down quickly.
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Also, the attack animation don't show up at all, neither do the damage number. What is the problem ?
When I got something like that earlier, turned out I used the wrong version of the game. The current version of the patch requires Weekend (note: re-release of the game as of C82) showing version 3.0.0.
You SHOULD post this under "Touhou Projects" in "Rika's and Nitori's Garage Experiments", in the t-patch thread for this game.
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Will do ! Thanks for the tip.
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Nah, it's fine in here o_O It's about help with the game not working at all, which is completely relevant. About the only thing that would need to be in the translation thread instead is error reports about the english patch.
Anyway, started up a second playthrough myself. Because I'm crazy, and figure WELL WHY NOT PLAY THE GAME AGAIN SINCE WEEKEND IS OUT.
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Beated chapter 17. And geez... the bosses are getting harder and harder... I think it started from tenshi and onwards.
I'm with a huge temptation to cheat the number of my crafting materials, but my honest side tells me not to do so... it's like I have a demon on a shoulder and angel on another. :(
But anyway, just a bit more and I'll beat main game mode... so, perhaps it's better to endure it and save the cheating for later.
Anyway, started up a second playthrough myself. Because I'm crazy, and figure WELL WHY NOT PLAY THE GAME AGAIN SINCE WEEKEND IS OUT.
This game is awesome, I'll probably do a second playthrough as well if they rellease another patch... and once I finish it, my next game will be Devil of Decline (just waiting for the translation patch to be relleased, but that's probably going to take a while since the guy that's working on it is currently taking a break).
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Beated chapter 17. And geez... the bosses are getting harder and harder... I think it started from tenshi and onwards.
You play fast. I'm still grinding in Eientei Inner Sanctum, because 2 of my touhous are still getting full XP from the mooks.
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Talking about XP, the last yukkuri I met was that Melty one that's analogous to liquid metal slime. And woah! That thing gives over 10k of XP... I was hunting them on stage 15, and thank goodness the chances of meeting them aren't really completely random... I mean, if you keep fleeing from normal battles they will eventually come for sure, so... it's quite easy (unlike shiny hunting on pokemon, but it's not like I care about getting a palette swap anyway).
The strategy that worked best for me was using Nitori's Rage Eight, Sakuya's Full Moon Revenge and Youmu's Yukkuri slash added to Sonic Stream battle formation, plus aya's Tengu Fall Wind and her Air tree maxed to prevent surprise attacks. So... the winning is 100% guaranteed.
Anyway, I've lost the link... but on pooshlmer I saw a picture of apparently a giant yukkuri reimu. So... when am I going to meet that delicious XP cake? I'll also use the opportunity to ask who are all of the members of yukkuri family and on what stage you meet each of them first. (Since Touhou wiki's bestiary isn't complete yet)
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Anyway, I've lost the link... but on pooshlmer I saw a picture of apparently a giant yukkuri reimu. So... when am I going to meet that delicious XP cake? I'll also use the opportunity to ask who are all of the members of yukkuri family and on what stage you meet each of them first. (Since Touhou wiki's bestiary isn't complete yet)
Yukkuri King is in the final stage of the maingame (last area). The last one, the Yukkuri Emperor, only appears in the final area of the last expansion stage, not counting the extra area of pain.
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And it isn't affected by Illusionary Dominance or her 3 bomb commander so you have to be lucky (though Tengu Report work) to kill it.
So I end up getting xp from quests like diamond/emerald...
Edit :
Woops he was talking about Yukkuri King, you should get there with a team for flee if encounters are too hard, Alice (hinorotori sky dance) + Aya, it's really fast to xp there until 65+.
So basically once you have the healing circle, save, proceed to the last area and get the first encounter which is very close to the teleporter and reset if the encounter isn't Yukkuri King.
Repeat for the 3 closest monsters, then go back to Hakurei Shrine make monsters respawn (5 times uh, thanks again Sungho).
"Have fun" resetting, it's boooring but I guess it's the faster way to get xp at this point.
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Fighting a couple yukkuri kings is good if you need to learn a skill or two on some characters; I did it to get important lv57~60 supportive skills on Mokou and Sanae, and Youmu's lv60 spellcard is perfect for killing the final boss with it's high damage and high accuracy modifier. But, I wouldn't recommend really grinding up on them, since in expansion, using the high-ranking subquests gains you levels far easier, especially into the upper 70s since you'll gain like... a level per battle. And since even gaining 10 levels from grinding on yukkuris barely does anything, unless you gain some great skill from it.
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I'm with a huge temptation to cheat the number of my crafting materials, but my honest side tells me not to do so... it's like I have a demon on a shoulder and angel on another. :(
You don't need to do that, actually -- you are given 10 of each character's specific material throughout the whole base game (if you find all chests, at least), and if I'm not mistaken, in Weekend you only need 9 of them to make every pre-expansion weapon, and 2 for all pre-expansion armors (except for Nitori and Satori, whose recipes mostly didn't change from 2.09). This means you should be able to craft everything as you get their recipes, although doing that is stupid because things barely change with only one tier of difference (except for the items with really good effects).
Anyway, the only weapons that could help you a lot in certain dungeons are Sakuya's, for their slayer effects; Nitori's Carbine, for its ability to kill Mind Flayers more quickly; and Youmu's Doujigiri Yasutsuna, for the final boss.
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And Youmu's weapon isn't even necessary anymore now that you can craft the Kusanagi. But the Doujigiri Yasutsuna is a good weapon, unless you just plan to go straight for the Gekka Bijin --> Touhou Fuhai.
Though I want to craft that Mutsusei Ryusei now that I have enough materials. That weapon can inflict stop status, a fairly powerful and fairly hard to resist effect.
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Regular battles on stage 21 also give great exp, and minibosses even more, so there is no need to flee and wait for the Yukkuri King. It's 30k exp while a normal battle is 2-5k and a miniboss is usually 15k+, so kill everything in your way and it will be really fast on that map. Although be careful because the monsters there are strong.
I have a question. How much does IND affect buffs? Is it worth wearing IND accessories on Byakuren, will it make any big difference? Because I didn't really notice much of a change when I didn't equip them even though it was like 200 IND.
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I thought IND affects how often a given skill user can make a status effect stick on an enemy.
Try equipping that useless 1-Bomb Fragrance of a Makai Butterfly with over 100 IND: You'd be surprised, especially after trying to use it in the earlier stages with little effect. This combination AND a lucky Sexy Underwear drop will guarantee around HALF a given enemy party charmed, at least.
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According to the wiki : " (Induction, chance to land statuses and status duration - applies to buffs too) "
I would like to know if it's true or not, and does it affect how much ATK I get from an ATK buff, or only the duration, or nothing at all, and by how much?
Chance obviously doesn't apply here because buffs never fail, so it is either buff amount, duration, or nothing.
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And Youmu's weapon isn't even necessary anymore now that you can craft the Kusanagi. But the Doujigiri Yasutsuna is a good weapon, unless you just plan to go straight for the Gekka Bijin --> Touhou Fuhai.
The Katana growth tree has double cast for everything (unlike the one for normal swords, which only works for normal attacks), critical damage +33% and crit +10. Those make the Doujigiri a lot better, in my opinion.
As for IND, I remember reading somewhere that it affects the strength of buffs for both Byakuren and Sanae, but it's a lot less effective for the latter and it caps at 100 IND.
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Does anyone have tips for teamwork / dealing with monsters for the bonus dungeon ?
My best try is room 5 but I died mentally seeing the amount of monsters and little space we have for dodges (impossible I guess).
Here are my various problems :
Patchouli : doesn't kill fast enough LGT robots
Lithos : what can she do except petrify ?
Nitori : how does she deal damages ?
Reimu : should she be a damage dealer or support ?
Byakuren : I need to use her less she run out of MP fast even with Magic MP costs -25%
Monsters getting stronger and more numerous ... I don't think levels would help me much ... and I have good equipments (though none of mini-bosses of this area).
As of wiki there are ... 8 rooms and things become difficult at room 4 ? ... help me please ;w;
Also does anyone have monsters stats / formations of this dungeon ?
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I could use some tips for the bonus dungeon, too.
I'm still working my way through leveling everyone to 99 and collecting at least the useful items, but I'm getting closer to finishing that, and still have no idea what I'm going to do inside. Those things are far too strong to fight without using MP and Bombs, but if I use any, I won't last long enough even if I switch characters when one runs out. I have doubts about the usefulness of some characters, too.
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Nitori has to hit a weakness or slayer to deal damage, but then she's golden. But... that would require knowing what you're gonna be fighting :S
Lithos has her 9999 damage last spell at lv95, I suppose. But, well, 2 bombs and 99 mp >_>; There's also, uh, her 6666 damage mystic spell maybe? Apart from that, there's Wild Stab and Pegasus Meteor. If you use Byakuren's elemental sword and combine it with Lithos' Rainbow Wings ability from her Magic Tree, that'll boost her damage by 50% even on an enemy -NOT- weak to fire/water/earth/elec, and makes her awesome if they are.
As for Byakuren, you could consider giving her a staff sometimes to try and use the MP Absorption Staff ability (Never tried it, I know it's ridiculous when the enemy uses it though, so it may be quite nice >_>;)
Endgame you probably have the POW for Reimu to be a good healer -and- damage dealer at the same time, and with her Gohei mp drain, you can even get her to drain significant amounts of mp on physical hits to keep her going. Sanae has this going for her too, if her attacks can actually damage the enemies in there enough to get her mp back; she certainly should have the free turns to do it with every now and then, I imagine. (Sanae's poison on her final weapon is so strong, you might consider trying to get her to inflict it. I don't know how realistic of a goal that is, though.)
Also... 8 rooms? The wiki says it goes up to U. That would be... 21 rooms :V If you don't have all the ultimate weapons (at least the ones that you'd ever want to use, I know some are eh), at least everyone's non-lv99-moves, and some totally kickass gear (Oh man the 15000 youkai kill gear is so amazing if that's realistic; I know I didn't even have 10k kills when I beat the expansion boss, so it was NOT realistic for me. Regalia and Hakurei Ribbon...), then you probably need to prepare more. It's not nice.
Also, as for IND; it does boost buffs, but the amount varies by buff, and overall, Sanae gets little out of it, and Byakuren doesn't get a lot more. Satori gets a good bit out of it on hers, but Kabuff +1 is the only one she's got, and it barely pushes her ahead of Sanae's (I -think- hers becomes better, at least...?) The fact that it stands up to Sanae's at all is great, though, and can make Satori a possible Sanae replacement in parties you were planning to use both Sanae and Byakuren, since Satori also has heals and protective spells. Of course, it'd be more just to speed things up then anything else, by letting you replace Sanae with someone who can deal more damage.
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Wow, thoses tips !
For Lithos, I think use her for the early stages where there are monsters weak to FIR/WTR/ETH/ELE (especially for the one which uses Cry).
And I believe later monsters will be resistant to those.
About Byakuren ... giving could be a good idea but I dunno about Magic Absorption Staff... I don't think Byakuren can have a spare turn.
Sanae's poison isn't that strong, if I remember correctly it did 600 last time it worked, when monsters have 10k+ and may kill you in 2-3 turns...
And Satori's MPs are ... too precious for support spells I mean, it's a waste considering she's a good and polyvalent damage dealer.
Hopefully, first room is N.
And uh ... well I'm giving another try if I might learn some things because I don't have much to say to help.
Oh and I have almost every formations for the first 4 rooms, here if you'r interested : http://pastebin.com/ia5EJz11
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I'm going to try the bonus dungeon for the first time. I don't expect to complete it, I just want to get familiar with what to expect there.
I'll try a team of Sakuya, Reimu, Nitori, Marisa and Satori (Mokou for commander with 20 bombs to revive...).
Having Slayer for 5 different types on Nitori's weapon sounds like she will be useful for most battles. I wonder how far I'll get.
By the way, how useful is the Ultima Weapon? Is it worth using instead of the best character specific weapons? How does it work, more damage on higher HP or on lower? Does it have any sort of hidden effect or ability?
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Oh, when I was mentioning Satori, I meant in general, not specifically on those battle; however, Satori can also regen large amounts of MP if you give her an high Patk staff and use certain melee attacks to abuse the drain. And it works right alongside her magic skills too, if you can manage any spare turns to do it with.
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In the end I used Byakuren instead of Satori because I needed that extra 50% divine barrier from her weapon. I'll switch to Satori if Byakuren runs out of MP, which I see happening as she only regains 2 each turn, so unless I can safely skip turns forever, I won't be able to refill her. I doubt I'll see weak enough monster for that in later levels, but it was possible against that reflect barrier casting lion because ti runs out of MP fast.
Done with the first 2 areas, Sakuya is now out of the party due to having no MP gain whatsoever and out of MP. She was also the most fragile in the party due to no barrier or resistance from Plv. I will use Lithos in her place from now on. If she manages to petrify a monster, free max MP for everyone, so I'll try the weapon that can petrify on a normal attack....is what I wanted to do but it's gone, it was used up for making the other weapon :(
I have the materials to make it again, but I can't exactly go to the shop without risking a respawn, can I?
(I'm doing it on easy, by the way. I might try normal later when I already have the all star resist equipment from the chest, but until then, no way.)
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Sanae's poison isn't that strong, if I remember correctly it did 600 last time it worked, when monsters have 10k+ and may kill you in 2-3 turns...
I believe the poison effect on her ultimate weapon is outright amazing, I've seen a video of it being used in the expansion final boss and it dealt 1400 damage on the first turn (!!), which then increased all the way up to 4000 (!!!!) for some reason after three turns. Or something like that.
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I have a question. How much does IND affect buffs? Is it worth wearing IND accessories on Byakuren, will it make any big difference? Because I didn't really notice much of a change when I didn't equip them even though it was like 200 IND.
Yeah, IND affects buff duration and power. You should be able to see a difference on Byakuren's buff if your IND is low and high. Other buffs that do that affected by IND, but you may miss, because it may not feel like a buff are Youmu's stances and Mokou's Regen/Block 1 fatal attack skill.
I do not know if Yuugi's Last Word is affected by IND, but I would assume so, since it is a buff.
I believe the poison effect on her ultimate weapon is outright amazing, I've seen a video of it being used in the expansion final boss and it dealt 1400 damage on the first turn (!!), which then increased all the way up to 4000 (!!!!) for some reason after three turns. Or something like that.
How'd Sanae's weapon do so much poison damage? I know it starts at 800 and is unaffected by IND. So, I guess they stacked all +% poison damage items? I did not remember the poison damage going up though. Oh and Sanae's poison lasts forever. So, it will be a good constant source of damage if you plan a battle of attrition.
Sakuya is now out of the party due to having no MP gain whatsoever and out of MP.
Swap to daggers to recover MP. The Messe Dagger and the Orichalcum dagger can recover MP. Sakuya's damage should be high enough for you to net gain MP fairly fast, unless the enemy you are fighting has really high defense.
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Successfully completed the bonus dungeon on the first try. The only downside is that it's already tomorrow morning.
I had all the best character armors and weapons (except the useless ones), and every equipment worthy of use. All characters on 99 except for the most useless ones but even those at 90+. With this, and playing on EASY MODE, completing the dungeon only took
-9 hours of time
-Pretty much every resource on every character except about 3-4 I didn't use.
This is how they each worked out (or not)
Reimu : At the end, down to near 0 MP (she can drain MP when attacking with her gohei so she can't really run out), and 1 bomb. She was one of the most useful members, did good damage, healing and never ran out of MP, although she had to normal attack a lot to refill it.
Lithos : At the end, down to exactly 0 MP. Her natural Divine Barrier was very useful and she was ok for attacking with Kusanagi, but she has absolutely no way to refill MP, so eventually she is down to using normal attacks or has to be replaced.
Nitori: Down to 2 lives, 0 bombs and 8 MP. I used her in the front lines most of the time. She regains 2 MP each turn so it's easy to keep her on max in the first half of the dungeon by passing turns. She was surprisingly durable with 90% divine barrier, I used her most of the time and she had remaining lives at the end. She did nice damage with Rage Eight and elements/slayer.
Byakuren : 0 Lives with 300+ MP remaining. The 2 MP regen each turn is not much but you don't need to spend too much for buffing and can pass a lot. She was quite useful.
Marisa : 0 Lives, 0 Bombs and 78 MP at the end, probably the most useful character in here. Hard to keep her alive, but she does a lot of damage for very low MP costs and gains back MP really fast. Hakkero is really nice here, too. You'll run out of lives before MP so don't hesitate to spend more when she is down to 1-2 lives.
Mokou : 0 Bombs. I used her as a commander and she had 20 bombs at the beginning. Resurrection is always good.
Sakuya : Switched her out around floor 3 when she ran out of MP. She can't recover it and her ability to stop time is pretty much a must have for the last floor if you don't want to skip monsters, so don't use her until then if possible. I guess I should have used the daggers, but forgot she can use them. Never used anything except a 2H sword on her.
Reisen : I used her near the end only, she has a surprisingly high amount of bombs, so if you need to replace a party member with another damage source, she is good. She can do nice damage, too. She was down to 1 MP but still had 7 bombs when I finished.
Youmu : I didn't use her, so I can't say much about her usefulness.
Aya : Didn't use her either. I didn't need to kill the Yukkuris as I had max level already. I think she is useful for the first 4-5 floors at most, after that, all the enemies are minibosses with far too much hp, so it doesn't matter there who gets the first turn.
Alice : Also didn't use her. I wanted as much damage sources as possible to save time. Using her would have made survival easier but slower damage*9 hours to complete without her = I saved several hours, at least. I think she can't recover MP either.
Cirno : I only used her in the last few battles when I ran out of better characters and she was useless. Didn't have enough protection to keep her alive either, and she did uninteresting amounts of damage.
Satori : Down to 0 lives and 0 bombs. She had 111 MP remaining. I used her in the first two Seraphim battles, to learn Punish the Judgement and to turn the land element away from light to disable Seraph's regen, and after that mainly to use PTJ to be able to kill faster.
Remilia : Another character I used near the end only. Unlike Cirno, Remilia did some really nice damage while her bombs lasted, but she ran out quickly.
Sanae : Only used her on the last level when I no longer had Byakuren to buff nor any other character I could use in the back row as a replacement magic attacker. She wasn't as good as Reimu but still quite useful. She still had bombs, MP and lives remaining at the end.
Patchouli : I used her on the last floor mostly. 0 bombs and 11 MP at the end but she had 6 lives so I could make some more MP by reading if I wanted to.
Yuugi : I didn't use her. She has low MP and Bombs, so I don't think you can use her for a long amount of time effectively.
About the areas. First five was not too dangerous, a few random minibosses and some dangerous groups of normal monsters, but most of the time it was possible to find a battle where I could refill my MP. The 6th area has the minibosses from Stage 21 paired up in groups of 2. Some of these weren't too dangerous, but others were a lot more so. Have some light damage ready against the snake, it likes to spam death and untankable 10k+ damage attacks. 7th floor has the bosses from stage 27 and the first one is always the Seraph. Some of these are weak enough to pass or refill MP by normal attacking, but others are very dangerous. It's best to clean this floor because if you don't, and have to come through it again, then you have to kill another seraph, and those take a long time. The last floor has the demon and elder dragon you know from the 8 star quests although with different names. These are very hard to kill even if you are prepared to fight them and have all your MP and bombs on max, so reset if you encounter them, unless you actually have all characters necessary to beat them (Sakuya for Quicktime, Reimu fro major light damage, Aya to make sure Quicktime goes off when it needs to, etc). Although the demons seems to appear regularly, it's somewhat random, so you can empty the room eventually by letting the yukkuris run away and killing the less dangerous enemies.
That's all, and there is no way I'll ever do this again, especially not on normal, that's for sure.
Good look for everyone else who attempts it, now I'm going to finally get some sleep.
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Marisa : 0 Lives, 0 Bombs and 78 MP at the end, probably the most useful character in here. Hard to keep her alive, but she does a lot of damage for very low MP costs and gains back MP really fast. Hakkero is really nice here, too. You'll run out of lives before MP so don't hesitate to spend more when she is down to 1-2 lives.
This is kind of weird. How is Marisa outdamaging your melee characters? Even with her best non-bomb spell, she does about the same damage as Remilia(Scarlet Spear the Gungnir), Yuugi(Galaxy), or Sakuya's(Nouvelle Ice Sword) regular attack, assuming you have end game gear. If you are willing to switch to daggers, Sakuya's damage should easily trump Marisa's bombs, except maybe Triple Spark with max Master Spark tree.
I am also not sure how Nitori is doing such good damage compared to the real damagers. I have Shade2010 and her damage is not very good, even if I am hitting slayer. Remilia, Yuugi, and Sakuya all hit very hard and should not need to use bombs or mana. Youmu has Death effect, but I don't know how many enemies you can tag with it at the bonus dungeon. Her stance + skill is fairly cheap though, so you can use it for quite a while.
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Personally, I don't get how Sakuya's good DPS with daggers.
Am I not skilling her growths right? Or am I just not giving her the right dagger?
If it helps, I've just cleared the Garden of The Sun's first visit, and I've used all the Special Item Codes.
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Her DPS with daggers suck. The only reason to use it is to get mana back. With the Sacred Akiba Cherry Blossom or Orichalcum dagger, you can spam her 1 to 4 hit skill all day long without losing mana. The damage is decent, about 1k x 1 to 4, so it isn't like it is bad. This is near end main game and post game items, so you won't be using daggers anytime soon with Sakuya. For reference, those daggers are 123 and 118 power respectively.
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Well, that makes sense. And here I was worried I was doing something wrong.
Guess sticking with 2H is the best bet for a long while.
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This is kind of weird. How is Marisa outdamaging your melee characters?
Maxed out laser and power tree, 30% master spark damage from broom, 10% MYS damage from armor. Quickened master spark and final laser will do really good damage. Oh, I was using Hyper Library as I usually do, that might be part of it. There are 3 MATK up slots in that but no ATK up, is area heal friendly, so it works well with Reimu at center, Marisa and Byakuren/Patchouli/Satori in the back.
The important part is she can get MP back fast enough so you can reliably use these spells very often, while the physical attackers don't (not sure about the dagger, but it's kinda risky to switch to a weapon like that when you don't know what the next enemy is.). Normal attacks from physical attackers did like 1, rarely 2k damage, while these spells did around 6k I think.
I am also not sure how Nitori is doing such good damage compared to the real damagers. I have Shade2010 and her damage is not very good, even if I am hitting slayer.
Her normal attack is about the same as the other physical attackers, but Rage Eight is a low MP cost attack that hits 4-8 times and is spammable if necessary, and you can also hit elemental weakness. The good part is she has MP regen, so whenever you face a weak enemy, you can refill all her MP by waiting. None of the other physical attackers can do that, I think.
Not sure how easy mode affects damage calculation, that might make some difference, too.
Oh and it seems Soleido has no hidden void star resist unlike the components that make it, so it's really disappointing.
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Ahaha something so funny (and sad) just happened to me.
So it was an encounter who ended up as Remilia vs Shuten-Doji because of her perfect dodge and lifesteal, she managed to survive about 4~5 turns then she got her last word.
I used it, he became a Yukkuri King ... I thought victory was mine but he used Total Destruction and she died XD.
> If Remilia wasn't so fast I think I would have won because she would be full hp after using her last word.
Anyway, Mokou is good with a spear (-1 cooldown on stab skills, which includes her spells). At least I'm sure she will kill Mind Flayers quickly.
Remilia is good for dealing with lots of monsters though she's low on bombs.
And Nitori hm ... Rage Eight with Element Bullet is fine but not dealing damage on turn 1 could ... make me loose.
Just tried, about Sanae's poison with her last weapon and +30% poison damage (Poison Lily +10% and Snake God's Robe +20%) she's doing 800~999 / turn.
Still haven't tried melee Lithos with elemental weapon/buff I'm keeping her for later areas.
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I was wondering why the hell Remi should ever use a staff (Because Red Magic is her only magic attack, and I guess you could use that and Lifesteal, but it sounds pretty sucky!)
Then I realized, hey, she gets +150 patk in a tree. She gets Defense Ignore [Medium]. She has strong attack skills. Ergo, she can probably drain a very significant amount of mp with the staves 3% mp drain on physical, nifty. I always was kind of frugal with skills when I used her, which was okay because her normal attacks and super cheap skills for AoE were still pretty strong, but that'd make it nice.
I don't know if you can really get away with it in the bonus dungeon, but.
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Not sure how easy mode affects damage calculation, that might make some difference, too.
The damage you deal is doubled, and the damage you take is halved. Also, that thing about status effects from enemies being harder to stick to you.
Maybe I should try a full easy modo run once I decide I want to go through this game a fourth time (:colonveeplusalpha:), just to see how silly it gets.
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Just posting to ask a quick question...
I got a Trapezohedron from an enemy but my party got annihilated before I could finish the battle... and I don't remember how many I had total. So... did I still get it? I mean, does the game save the item you got even if you get killed before ending the battle?
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Nope. You have to finish the battle if I remember correctly.
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Nope. You have to finish the battle if I remember correctly.
...........................I... just... have to... breath and... calm down.
Okay, that's REALLY frustrating. I rarely get my whole party killed to regular enemies, and this have to happen just when I get a rare item...? Blame those mindflayers.
But rage apart, well... I'm still on chapter 18, currently grinding my reimu towards level 51 to help my battle against kagami (Super Duplex Barrier). It's quite annoying that you're forced to split the party between 3... so, in a way or another... you won't be getting a full party everywhere. But at least that urchin girl is pathetically easy if you use Fujiyama volcano and items to resist poison/stun. So... Just Mokou and another party member is pretty enough for that battle. From my experience, I think the hardest one is chihiro, since she has quite a variety of attacks... but what makes the battle tough are those undesirable status effects.
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Little legion plus regular duplex barrier has worked wonders for me.
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Kagami has always been the easiest one for me, even without Alice. I don't remember how I did that battle in my not-quite-latest run, but in my latest one all I did was give Aya +EVA stuff, dark resistance stuff, and stick her in the front of a Poison Shield formation, spamming Wing God Hiding in Tree Leaves or something like that... every other turn because I'm retarded and didn't give her a fan :V, but it still worked out beautifully in the end (the killing squad was composed of light explosives to circumvent her elemental resistance buff).
The only sea maid that tends to give me trouble is Chihiro, but even then only because I usually forget about her nuke on the first turn. And then there's Akame who always kills me when the RNG decides to be a dick, so I always need to go for her first.
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I just noticed something weird...
While trying to learn Hyper Armor from shisa on bhava-agra, my satori was level 50 with her "Understanding Tree" maxed. And I used byakuren to cast charm on the enemy and so... he casted hyper armor on my party, satori got buffed but she didn't learn the attack.
I mean... if you max out her understanding tree, she will learn a skill that boosts the learning success rate to +200%, and given that you naturally have 50% chance of learning those buff attacks from enemies, then with that tree maxed the success rate would become 150%, in other words... unmissable, right?
Thus, how come she failed to learn it?
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Because she can't. It's not in the list.
She can learn Starlight Barrier and Reflect Wall from those enemies, though.
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Yeah, Hyper Armor and Hyper Weapon are not learnable skills.
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Question: in the Kaguya/Eirin fight, can you still make Kaguya run from the battle if you inflict Control on her?
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Yup, Eirin can't even resurrect her.
Which means that Eirin will heal herself quite a lot.
You wouldn't get Kaguya in the Encyclopedia this way, so I wouldn't recommend it.
Which is what the wiki says.
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And besides, you won't get the experience points from Kaguya, but that's still passable... the worst thing is that you won't get her encyclopedia entry.
Anyway... finally managed to beat the three maids as well as the stage 19 boss... and woah! That girl was STRONG. But the strategy I used was enough to overcome her deadly physical blows and render her useless.
I merely used Patchouli/Marisa as elec attackers, Byakuren to debuff her PATK, then sanae to buff defenses and reimu for super duplex barrier in case she'd get regenerated from the debuff... and aya as commander to make the party go first in case she was regenerated and reimu being unable to cast the barrier due to cooldown. Just so I could ensure Byakuren's debuff would go first.
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Question: in the Kaguya/Eirin fight, can you still make Kaguya run from the battle if you inflict Control on her?
I've noticed that in Weekend, the speed of the controlled target is considered if you try to escape, so if you're faster and the only thing left on the opponent's side is a controlled target you will be able to flee before them. However, since you usually can't escape from boss fights, I believe Kaguya would still try to escape after you failed.
As for Anastasis, if you have Satori with Mad Thunder she is a complete non-issue :]
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Yup, Eirin can't even resurrect her.
Which means that Eirin will heal herself quite a lot.
You wouldn't get Kaguya in the Encyclopedia this way, so I wouldn't recommend it.
Which is what the wiki says.
I know, and I know it works in LSH, but I thought they may have changed it in Weekend. Well, I'm at the stage 9 boss, so we'll find out soon enough.
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I made Kaggy escape for kicks, so yes, it works.
Reloaded because that was doing it wrong. Kaggy's buff spells are sick crazy.
In other news, I had a lucky break yesterday. In the Kanako/Suwako boss battle, On my third try, Suwako was petro'd from turn 1 and never managed to break out, and when I was just 2 characters away from party wipe, Youmu finally managed to land an Instakill on Kanako at ~80% health.
Yes I was specifically going after their weaknesses with cheese, but those 2 don't make it easy to cheese them...
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You can't break out of Petrify, it has a permanent duration.
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SOme enemies have a chance at the end of each turn to recover from permanent effects. Suwako is one of them.
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I don't think you can recover from Petrify at all. I believe allies also have some skill that lets you recover from permanent effects and Petrify is not one of those you can recover from. I could be mistaken on this.
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Don't know about party members, but I have in fact seen Suwako recover from Petrify.
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Many boss enemies have a chance to recover from permanents/varieties at the end of the turn, and such definitely applies to Suwako and Petrify.
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Yeah, I saw Suwako break out of Petrify repeatedly in the original too.
And in Weekend, she never did either. I almost wonder if that's a change in Weekend...
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According to Touhou Wiki:
Suwako has a chance at shrugging off the status at the end of every turn, so you can't just set the game on auto-battle after hitting Suwako with petrify.
So yes... suwako can heal herself from the condition if you're unlucky. But that never happened during my battle against her since I made it sure to kill her as fast as possible after insta killing kanako. (By the way, that happened on the very first turn with one of sakuya's misdirection attacks)
...Anyway, can someone tell me what in the bloody socks I have to do on the "red eyes medusa floor puzzle" from stage 20 to open the second green door?
Please, someone give me the correct path I have to follow or something so I can unlock it.
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Nevermind, finally completed the puzzle. Will update the post again if I find some trouble with stage 20's boss.
-EDIT 2.0-
Well then... beated her easily after following alternate method from touhou wiki's walkthrough. However... I also put aya on the party for Tengu's Fall Wind, due to Turtlesmasher's low accuracy. And the rest of story is history.
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And in Weekend, she never did either. I almost wonder if that's a change in Weekend...
Weekend seems to have changed Iku's patterns as well. She'll not cast her All-Instakill attack twice in a row now, instead alternating every 3rd turn (she still does it first turn). This actually gives you a lot of buffer!
Tho in 6+ turns she'll have raised the Lightning field of the map so high that even Spectrum Mystery can't deal with it, so we still shouldn't be taking this long.
(At least I'm pretty sure Iku has a pattern that doesn't match the wiki's proposed one anymore. After I got wiped ~5 times and finally found the winning formula, I spent a handful of additional turns until Iku finally targeted Satori with Mad Thunder. Thunderclap WAS tempting, tho... it's Satori's only use for Bombs at that point.)
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I see, that's interesting, I did not know Suwako can recover from petrify.
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(At least I'm pretty sure Iku has a pattern that doesn't match the wiki's proposed one anymore. After I got wiped ~5 times and finally found the winning formula, I spent a handful of additional turns until Iku finally targeted Satori with Mad Thunder. Thunderclap WAS tempting, tho... it's Satori's only use for Bombs at that point.)
Now that Mad Thunder is a 100% chance to learn if you max out the learning tree, it's actually a pretty good idea to try to grab it from Iku. Thunderclap is kind of ehh; it's not a lot stronger then her other elec attacks, but costs a bomb and a lot of MP in exchange for alltarget and Shock. Mad Thunder, on the other hand, is a pretty powerful magic attack on the level of endgame elec spells.
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Stuff about Suwako and Petrify
Well, earth and stone are a part of her portfolio, so is it much of a surprise that she can break out of Petrify?
As for Iku, I suppose this bodes well for me now, hm? What level you gotta be to get Mad Thunder again?
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Wiki says 30. My Satorin was at 45 when I challenged Iku.
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Anyone know a trick to make stage 21's enemies respawn quickly? I entered and left 5 different locations of the game, then did the same to hakurei shrine and they still didn't respawn.
I need to grind my characters till level 70 (all of them are above 50) for the final boss, but by this point, the only place that gives me real good XP is stage 21, although, if those unrespawning enemies won't cooperate with me, I'll never be able to reach said level.
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Did you step on the magic circle every time when you entered the Hakurei Shrine?
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Yeah; you need to actually step on healing circles when you enter/leave places for it to work. This goes for both stages and the shrine.
You shouldn't need to grind to 70 though ^^; With subquests in expansion, you'll be able to get levels up to mid70s extremely easily (Mindflayer subquest is free exp via instant death and tends to come twice in a row; each character should gain at least one level per fight until mid70s iirc), and there are almost no skills learned by anyone between 60 and 70, nor do the hp/mp/stat boosts add up to much.
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Oh... didn't know you needed to step on the healing circle. Now that I did it, the trick worked.
And well... Touhou wiki says you have to be at least on upper 60s to challenge the final boss. it's still possible to win on lower 60s, although... it says you'll have a tougher time. But since you're saying it's not necessary, then I'll follow your word and try it.
By the way, I have a question. If you equip Gamer's Fan on your party's commander, will it still raise item drop rate? Same thing for items like yukkuri medal, will it still increase the XP gained?
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XP gain items still work, I don't know about the gamer fan. It was only like a 0.1% drop rate boost before, and I'm not sure if that was boosted, either.
And, yeah; leveling only really helps at all if you learn a cool new skill from it, and there are extremely few learned skills between 61 and 69. Sanae, Mokou, Byakuren, and Youmu all learn a great skill between 55~60 though; so there ARE several people who can use a little leveling and it'll help. Satori's high-tier skills all unlock at lv60 now as well, and I think it's possible to get Medoroa from something in stage 21... Medoroa can do like 10k damage endgame, and probably something similarly powerful before then, but I have no idea how hard getting an enemy to use it on Satori would be before Expansion.
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Defeated Lithos easily.
...and now I'm screaming for someone to help me with the final battle... it's hard beyond belief. Is there not like a really, REALLY good strategy that will almost guarantee a win?
Every boss on the game so far had some strategy to make the battle easier... so, I'm guessing the final battle is no different.
-EDIT-
(When someone decide to reply to this, please also answer this question: If you combo asura strength with Paschal Moon-Reflecting Satellite Slash, will you get a critical hit on each hit? Because if you combo this attack with Byakuren's Dark Sword + Weapon Bless with Kusanagi equiped, the goddess would probably take overly massive damage)
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I believe Asura Strength only gives critical on the first hit, so it is not very good.
Against the final boss, use 2 teams, the first team is to take down phase 1. That team should consist of Patchouli, Marisa, Sanae, Nitori, Alice, and some other person. Just spam spells until ou win. Then clear the element field with Void element or whatever it is called.
Second team should consist of Byakuren, Youmu, Reimu, the last 2 are not very important. You can swap Alice in to the second team and use Mokou as a tank for the first team in Poison Doll formation, if you want more defense.
I don't know if you can craft the Yata no Kagami yet, but if you can, craft that, it is very useful in this fight.
You best move is probably Slash of Eternity, since it is one of the stance bombs, so you get bonus damage from the tree. Pascal's Moon Reflecting Satellite slash is not in any stance, so it doesn't get the damage bonus. It may be better than Slash of Eternity, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Depending on how many points you have, you may want to put all your points in offense, so 10 ranks in Strength. At least 16 points in Asura sword for +40 attack.
Oh yeah, don't make the mistake I did, you need to kill the 3 goddesses in phase 2 otherwise you face a super hard version which you will not beat with your items.
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No, the only thing you won't get from the 2-bomb is the MP cost reduction.
Every other thing applies. such as +ACC and +CRT, and the buff from the stance.
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(I call the Manussya stance human stance out of habit, for reference)
You best move is probably Slash of Eternity, since it is one of the stance bombs, so you get bonus damage from the tree. Pascal's Moon Reflecting Satellite slash is not in any stance, so it doesn't get the damage bonus. It may be better than Slash of Eternity, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Depending on how many points you have, you may want to put all your points in offense, so 10 ranks in Strength. At least 16 points in Asura sword for +40 attack.
It's better then SoE. It also has super high accuracy which you need so that Byakuren doesn't have to buff Youmu's. But yeah; it's definitely stronger. The one thing is that is DOES have one turn higher cooldown; you'll be spending the turns buffing up on the first use anyway, but then you'll have to wait slightly longer for the second. In power vs. cooldown, the two might even out, but I'm not sure exactly how much damage SoE does in comparison. I know with proper preparation, Pascal Satellite Slash does almost enough to two-shot the boss (If Dark land is high, it probably -does- twoshot).
Three uses of it will kill the boss for sure if you're got all the proper buffs applied on each, so the power isn't too much of an issue. Use Human stance and make sure to max the Katana tree for critical boost, along with enough points in Half-spirit for the spellcard reduction (although I'm sure you know that already), the criticals are far more powerful then the strength bonus off of Asura. I'm pretty sure Asura's thing only makes the first hit a critical as well, so the buff in Human stance is a lot better as well as it's passive critical boost.
And yes, use the katana, not the Kusanagi. The critical boost in Youmu's tree and the chance to use physical skills (instead of just normal attacks) twice makes it superior, ESPECIALLY the latter if it triggers, because that will cut several turns off the time it takes to end the boss. If one of your spare people in party 2 can use swords and has nothing better to do, they can whack away with the Kusanagi for a little extra damage.
I'd put Alice in the second party. You should definitely have the Autobarrier unless you've got some other shield you think is comparable. Poison Shield is undoubtably the way to go. With Poison Shield and parrar, magic will still be doing a little damage; keep this in mind and give appropriate people resists/mdef to counter, and do have heals on Byakuren (as well as Reimu/Satori if they are present).
Satori/Aya/Mokou are all considerable people for the first party in addition to the ones he said, especially considering using Chasers will screw up chances to doublecast, and that chasers are falling behind in power at this point. Keep in mind the sisters in phase one have some divine barrier; if you've got a staff with Magic Exorcism, use it. The reason I say Aya is she can blinktank, and her evasion spellcard has application versus Anastasis. Whoever the tank is, though, make sure they've got high Elec resist to take Mad Thunder hits. If Satori is in the first party, she can petrify mooks so you don't have to worry about them anymore. (Don't kill the mooks, having a maid summoned sucks.) Lithos has the most divine barrier and the highest mdef as well iirc, so she's the hardest to damage; I'd just take a break when she comes up, especially since her weakness Fire will counteract the water land you build up hitting Biotopos.
Sanae could attempt using a dagger to petrify mooks in her spare time if you've got the Psycho Dagger from stage 13's ghosts. The mambele knife from the Seely Court enemies in stage 20 (I -think- it's them?) has slayers on phase 1 sisters if you want to try using someone (Probably Sakuya) for that. Actually, Patch might do better damage with a Mambele then with her magic, you'd have to test. Sakuya/Mokou bashing phase one with the kusanagi would be alright since it's high power and has exorcism, even if it doesn't slay them, and would help you hit phase 2's damage quota I think if you saved mp for that.
If Alice is not in the first party, keep in mind you want earth resistance on everyone for phase two's Stone Shower.
You can get away with having one of the elements at max from your party using it to kill the second phase, if your first party has Mokou and you just use Reraise to take the nuke before second party jumps in. (Alice also can try to do this for party 1 spamming london doll/little legion until it's used) Light/Dark don't trigger the murdernuke, either, and having high Dark boosts the damage form hitting the dark weakness.
Keep in mind you'll need to be able to pump out enough damage to kill the second phase in time. It's 50,000hp over 9 turns, if I remember right. You might consider using Team 2 for this phase; if you do, keep in mind Youmu will need enough bombs to handle both this -and- the last phase if you go down that road.
(in my current 100%-goal playthrough I'm in stage 14 right now myself, farming for drops I didn't get before I fight Tenshi. Steady progress~)
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No, the only thing you won't get from the 2-bomb is the MP cost reduction.
Every other thing applies. such as +ACC and +CRT, and the buff from the stance.
So, is the translation wrong then? It says something along the lines of asura stance skill damage +30% or something like that. What does that mean then?
It's better then SoE. It also has super high accuracy which you need so that Byakuren doesn't have to buff Youmu's. But yeah; it's definitely stronger.
Against the unupgraded boss, I don't think you need the accuracy buff. But I could be wrong here, I haven't fought the boss in a while now. Youmu's accuracy buff from the human realm stance should be enough.
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The parameters of the buff is boosted.
When Youmu has 10 IND, Human Realm Stance will give +18% ACC.
When she has the '+50%' skill tree, it will give +27% ACC.
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I see, so you want high IND for Youmu too, if the numbers are substantial. From the texts, I was under the impression that the power(as in damage) of the skills that use that stance was boosted.
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Do those bonuses work for the Conjoined Stance as well?
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IND boosts a lot of things, but most things are not boosted significantly enough for you to care. Byakuren and Sanae's buffs are more potent with IND, but if you throw all your launch earrings on them and test the difference, you probably won't see a particularly significant one. (The effect on it varies from buff to buff; Sanae's offensive buffs get a very low effect from IND, while her defensive get a higher one, and all of Byakuren's are somewhere inbetween Sanae's. As well, with the introduction of Launch Earrings V in Weekend, the difference from using IV+V compared to neither... well, i'unno, maybe it actually sort of does something, if the effect isn't capped at a low number. iirc the effect on poison caps out)
The only things you need to worry about IND for is actually landing bad status effects. (That being said, if Byakuren/Sanae have spare accessory slots for a boss fight, and no one else needs the launch earrings, it certainly doesn't hurt to give it to them)
In any case, Youmu will get far better returns out of directly giving accessories for boosts rather then increasing her IND to try and make the stance give a higher bonus.
And, the boss has 180 evasion, so you need to hit 280 accuracy to never miss. Slash of Eternity has a 25% accuracy detriment, while Pascal has a 40% increase. You do get a bonus from Human stance and from Byakuren's all-up buff to help it out, and the Doujigiri Yo-whatever the katana is has a 117 accuracy base, ontop of +60 from pow trees in human and katana; basically, without using any slots for Headshot Goggles, Pascal will not be missing, while you'll probably have to at least devote one slot for Headshot Goggles III or IV to get Slash of Eternity up to the same standards. (200 acc for Pascal which youmu will practically hit even without buffs, or 374 accuracy for Slash of Eternity, which definitely will need goggles and the help of the human stance/byaku-buff; you'd probably want about 280~300 accuracy going in)
I'm not sure if Conjoined Stance boosts anything other then HP.
There's a page about this in the jap wiki, but while I can grasp what it's saying, I can't be explicitly sure what it means... you might consider testing the effect of IND on buffs just to make sure it's not too significant. I would, but I'm too early in my game to have access to high enough launch earrings for useful research.
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The accuracy bonus you get from human stance is hard to tell from IND boosts, because you can't actually see any numbers.
As for Byakuren's buffs, I can tell a difference on how IND is affecting her buffs, not big, but it is noticeable. So, I do tend to give Byakuren IND items, but I did not know that Sanae's defensive buffs get more bonuses from IND than her offensive buffs. I don't usually use defensive buffs other than the RES one, so I can't tell.
I kind of want to know, because with IV and V, that is a fairly large jump in your IND score. I have tested Mokou's regen(Xu Fu's Dimension), which is the easiest to test, because you actually see numbers pop up. I guess it is also easy to test Conjoined stance and the Sanae buff that gives HP. But everything else is hard to tell, especially accuracy or critical hit chance or stuff like that.
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Simply put, for 'good variety' status, anything over than 100 IND is wasted.
The boost increases for every 10 IND, and is simply propotional, rounded down.
All of Byakuren's buffs can be boosted to 150% at 100 IND
Sanae's DEF and MDEF buff can be boosted to 200% at 100 IND
Sanae's other buffs can be boosted to 125% at 100 IND
Sanae's RES buff and MDEF buff gives a flat +, instead of +%.
And I was wrong about Youmu's Human Realm Stance.
It gives +15 ACC instead of +15% ACC. I'm very sorry about that.
EDIT :
Ah, forgot something else.
MDEF, EVA, ACC, IND, RES all are + instead of +%. For both Sanae and Byakuren,
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Sometimes a pic is worth more than words, so... check it out guys, this is the equipment I plan to use for those characters:
(http://i.imgur.com/vhb6N.png) (http://imgur.com/vhb6N)
(http://i.imgur.com/1xIYF.png) (http://imgur.com/1xIYF)
(http://i.imgur.com/iuAt5.png) (http://imgur.com/iuAt5)
Youmu:
[Level 77] Growth = 7 (Manussya) | 16 (Asura) | 7 (Half Ghost) | 25 (Swords) | 2 (Katana: for Law of Spirit Calming) | 7 (STR) | 1 (VIT: Just to get above 400 pdef)
Serela said Doujigiri Yasutsuna is the way to go, but I still think Kusanagi is better... because you get a considerably high boost on several stats, and I can also use Dragon Fang Strike with the normal sword Tree Maxed, which is a quite good attack with no cooldown. I plan to use it while waiting for Paschal to reactivate.
Shuten Douji's Bracer is there because of the 5% Enchance (Although, I don't really understand how it works)
Even though it was quite expensive, I decided to craft Legendary Fencer's Clothes because it gives +3 bombs, and I will really need them on the final battle.
High Ribbon and Bracelet of Reflection IV are there for better protection against the boss' magical attacks.
Also, the boss has 180 evasion, right? With 250 accuracy, will I be able to guarantee my hits? This is the best accuracy point I could reach for her. I can still boost it further with some accessories, but I prefer to leave those I chose equipped.
Byakuren:
[Level 71] Growth = 25 (Support Magic) | 7 (Casting) | 25 (Scrolls) | 4 (DEX)
Nothing much to be said about her except for the accessories. Well, Ribbon is there for the same purpose as Youmu. Launch Earrings IV for better induction and thus, better buffs. While Squall Hairpin IV to help her cast said buffs faster.
Alice:
[Level 72] Growth = 25 (Manipulation) | 16 (Craft) | 20 (Dummy) | 3 (VIT)
I chose Rainbow Greaves to give her Elemental Resistance while Mononushi's Armor for a Star on ETH. It's gonna help against Stone Shower.
Makai Ring to reduce MYS damage towards 25% so she can tank Minus, while World Olympics Flyer and Sun Ring are there just for better protection against the Slash and Light attacks respectively. With those equipped she can take most of what the boss has to deliver.
...So, what do you guys think about all of this? Is the strategy acceptable or should I make some modifications?
(By the way, I don't understand how to get Poison Shield Formation. Touhou wiki says you have to kill an enemy with toxic, so... I put only satori on my party, used poison art against an enemy group from stage 1, they all took 500 damage and died, then I went to Garden of Sun's Healing Circle with Alice as my party leader and I still didn't receive the formation book. What did I do wrong?)
(Yet another question, how can I prevent Void Gravitation from annihilating my whole party? I used youmu's Paschal slash with Byakuren's dark elemental buff, then the boss imediatelly used this attack and killed everyone in one hit)
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Youmu:
[Level 77]
...I think you ground a bit too much :V
Serela said Doujigiri Yasutsuna is the way to go, but I still think Kusanagi is better... because you get a considerably high boost on several stats, and I can also use Dragon Fang Strike with the normal sword Tree Maxed, which is a quite good attack with no cooldown. I plan to use it while waiting for Paschal to reactivate.
Katanas are better because their growth tree has critical rate +10 and critical damage +33. Guess what makes Youmu so powerful? And well... why would you use Dragon Fang Strike when Youmu's stance skills are better and cheaper than it?
Alice:
[Level 72] Growth = 25 (Manipulation) | 16 (Craft) | 20 (Dummy) | 3 (VIT)
What are you doing how can you not have 25 in both Manipulation and Crafting that's not how you play Alice.
...So, what do you guys think about all of this? Is the strategy acceptable or should I make some modifications?
FYI, the final boss has an instant death attack too.
(By the way, I don't understand how to get Poison Shield Formation. Touhou wiki says you have to kill an enemy with toxic, so... I put only satori on my party, used poison art against an enemy group from stage 1, they all took 500 damage and died, then I went to Garden of Sun's Healing Circle with Alice as my party leader and I still didn't receive the formation book. What did I do wrong?)
Toxic is poison that deals 600 (I think) or more damage per turn. Give Satori all your +poison damage gear, buff her IND with Byakuren and you should be able to get a bubble that says Toxic.
(Yet another question, how can I prevent Void Gravitation from annihilating my whole party? I used youmu's Paschal slash with Byakuren's dark elemental buff, then the boss imediatelly used this attack and killed everyone in one hit)
She always uses that when the land meter is at maximum for any element (other than light/dark) at the beggining of her turn, so it would be a good idea to have Patchouli clean everything before going to the third phase.
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What are you doing how can you not have 25 in both Manipulation and Crafting that's not how you play Alice.
If you're using Doll's War, then the field effect bonus can be good. Alice's doesn't really need the shield pdef bonus in this fight (I -think-, at the least not with what he's using and his level), and you can get by without the HP. ...I'd take them over the +2 field effect turns probably, though, Alice does actually kind of have good use for that +20% hp for once, and she doesn't need the other bonuses she'd lose from 9 less points.
Alice needs to have a lot of resistance. I'm not sure whether there's a instant death attack, but she'll likely have to Little Legion 5 hits of a petrification spellcard. You can always have Byakuren heal it off with a spellcard heal, but that's a turn you aren't parrared, which means a turn that will hurt like hell.
Katana's are better for the critical bonus as said, the fact that especially at that level where you have Full Moon Slash you don't need dragon fang strike at all, and especially the double cast chance. HOWEVER, in the end, the Kusanagi is fine too so it's not a huge issue.
Don't bother putting points into base stats that are not STR or VIT, the returns are next to nil. Byakuren can use them to get another boost in casting speed and one point in Status Magic for +10 IND to top her off at 100 for max effect buffs (Amplifying Scroll likely does this anyway, but this means amplifying scroll itself gets the extra effect. Those points aren't doing a thing in DEX anyway.) Three VIT on Alice is whatever because you can't do anything else with them so sure why not. You probably don't have use for +1 bomb from the offensive tree, as the battle shouldn't last that long.
That much accuracy is fine. Keep in mind Human Stance and Byakuren's Amplifying Scroll will be increasing it.
You should really consider crafting the Autobarrier shield for Alice if you still have an orichalcon left over. In expansion, orichalcons are super easy to get, so don't worry about that.
Youmu probably doesn't need the High Ribbon -and- the Reflection IV, one can be switched out for a Strength Ring III or Rage Choker or dark damage boost amulet (The boss has light, but it comes with a spellcard warning so you can little legion) and the other can go to whichever of the other two unrevealed party members need it more. Alice, also, will be taking minute (More likely, 0) damage from physicals, so you can give her something else instead of World Olympics Flag. Probably something to resist Petrify, or just a Indefagitable Earring in case it does have instant death.
I'm not sure you can use Law of Spirit Calming without a Katana on, but you can check this easily by walking into any random battle. (In any case, Youmu seriously doesn't need it for this fight, get STR instead or something) And, the critical enchancements from Human Stance are far superior to Asura's damage increase, and I think the noncard was also stronger but I forget. But like; with the katana, you'd be able to consistently expect at LEAST one critical, likely two, and the criticals deal enough damage to make the non-crit hits look pretty wimpy. Even when using the Kusanagi and losing 33% damage and 10% chance to crit, they should still be beastly.
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Yeah, I am not sure about Youmu's stat distribution, it doesn't look very good. 20 ranks in sword, 25 ranks is wasted, use one of the stance skills over dragon fang strike. I recommend Crescent Moon Slash and Full Moon Slash. I also recommend Human Realm stance. I find Asura and Devaloka to be lacking, unless you can pull off Heavenly Halo Slash and drop the boss' Light Resistance further. I believe Manussya is the superior stance, but I could be wrong.
[Level 77] Growth = 7 (Manussya) | 16 (Asura) | 7 (Half Ghost) | 25 (Swords) | 2 (Katana: for Law of Spirit Calming) | 7 (STR) | 1 (VIT: Just to get above 400 pdef)
You want, 13 Manussya, 16 Asura, 7 Half Ghost, 20 Sword, 9 STR. You don't need ranks in Katana, I don't think you can use Law of Spirit Calming without a Katana.
I hope one of your party members is Reimu, because she and Alice alternate protecting your team members. Reimu can use Super Duplex barrier and prevent Magic damage, so for that turn all magic damage is negated. This is one of the ways to negate Void Gravitation. For your last party member, if you can, have someone who can use dark element attacks to turn the field dark. Satori is also a good choice here if you want another user that can deflect things. Her magic reflect is useful in this fight and I believe it can reflect Void Gravitation. She also has Starlight Barrier, which is kind of useful and she can heal.
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Just by fighting everything (except for the Two-Headed Dragon because dear god that thing is like a pile of trucks) on stage 21, I got half of my party to level 70 (on Weekend, obviously). I feel that grinding for levels is completely unnecessary in that version, especially since everyone left stage 20 at around level 55 too.
By the way, now that you mentioned Satori and she got considerably easier to use, I kind of wanted to try using her in the second party for the final boss, but I realized that the one I use has no room for changes at all. Youmu for damage, Alice for protection, Sanae for maintenance, Byakuren for buffs and Patchouli for land control (because of Land Amp). I think I could swap Sanae out for her, but then I'd lose the ability to revive people after unlucky shots or status effect spam, her global RES buff and the buff buff she got thanks to the amount of experience, but I guess I could try it out. Then again, she'd be completely useless in the first party, since nobody ever dies or needs any fix in there because of Aya and Reimu.
The only character who I can never find an use for is Nitori. Is spamming her commander spell really the best she can do against the final boss?
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HOORAY GUYS!! I FINALLY BEATED IT~! ^-^
It was surprisingly easy, and I used kusanagi in the place of katana... with the buffs, dark sword and stuff, she was delivering over 20k damage in a single hit of Paschal Moon Slash (but that was probably a crit) Well... gonna try the katana later and see which one is better.
And I made some equipment modifications:
Youmu = Makai Ring, Strength Ring IV, High Ribbon (I noticed some damage difference when Youmu was taking damage from the boss' fire/ice attacks and stuff with the Ribbon equiped, but that's just me. And I gave her Makai Ring because the stupid boss for some reason used Minus on her instead of Alice once. And naturally, Youmu was killed in one hit)
Alice = Cumula Amulet, World Olympics Flyer, Hakutaku's Ribboned Horn (Cumula Amulet because it was the best replacement of Makai Ring I had, and I had to keep WOF because without it, alice would get a Triangle in Slash due to the Amulet, and that'd really not be good due to Samidare Slash. The third one is for full protection against petrification)
at the least not with what he's using and his level
It's sheeeeee!! SHEEEEEEE!! Why does everyone keep calling me a "he" here...? ?-?
Those points aren't doing a thing in DEX anyway.
No no no no! Those 4 points in DEX are there for a purpose. My byakuren got 88 IND with Launch Earrings IV equipped, but for each 2 points in DEX, you get 1 point in IND in return... so, with those 4 points, I can achieve 90, which is going to give me a 135%+ buff enchancement for weapon bless, given that according to my calculations, you get a 15% PATK buff boost for every 10 points in IND. So... if I left it as 88, I'd only get a 120% buff enchancement.
You should really consider crafting the Autobarrier shield for Alice if you still have an orichalcon left over. In expansion, orichalcons are super easy to get, so don't worry about that.
Well, I used the only Orichalcon I had to craft Magus Suit for Sanae due to Mystic Resistance... but gonna get this Autobarrier along with Yata no Kagami and Yasakani no Magatama when I start playing expansion.
You want, 13 Manussya, 16 Asura, 7 Half Ghost, 20 Sword, 9 STR. You don't need ranks in Katana, I don't think you can use Law of Spirit Calming without a Katana.
I hope one of your party members is Reimu, because she and Alice alternate protecting your team members. Reimu can use Super Duplex barrier and prevent Magic damage, so for that turn all magic damage is negated. This is one of the ways to negate Void Gravitation. For your last party member, if you can, have someone who can use dark element attacks to turn the field dark. Satori is also a good choice here if you want another user that can deflect things. Her magic reflect is useful in this fight and I believe it can reflect Void Gravitation. She also has Starlight Barrier, which is kind of useful and she can heal.
Alright, I modified the ranks distribution accordingly. And yeah, there's no way to use the "self" spells without a katana.
I left Reimu and Satori on the 1st party. I think alice can protect the party better on the 3rd phase than reimu, since Little Legion has a lower cooldown than Super Duplex Barrier, and while it's cooldowning, I can simply use Nitori's Hyper Camouflage support skill for some protection.
...I think you ground a bit too much :V
It wasn't that hard to reach this level while you're grinding with stage 21 mooks with a Yukkuri Crown and Yukkuri Medal equipped. :V (Yes, somehow I was able to get them. Seems like lady luck likes me)
Just by fighting everything (except for the Two-Headed Dragon because dear god that thing is like a pile of trucks) on stage 21, I got half of my party to level 70 (on Weekend, obviously). I feel that grinding for levels is completely unnecessary in that version, especially since everyone left stage 20 at around level 55 too.
Oh god... don't get me started on that Dragon. I was never able to defeat it. Although, it's mostly because I wasn't using my party properly. On stage 21, I was using a party to kill most of the possible enemy formations from the stage in general, and not a team to specifically kill that dragon. (Nor that giant with multiple arms for that matter)
My team consisted of Hyper Library Formation with Youmu, Byakuren, Patchouli, Marisa and Reimu (To prevent the stupid mindflayers mind blast or that breath attack from Machine Dragon/Enemies with store power)
By the way, I like how the game used some recurring Final Fantasy enemies along with other stuff. We have: Malboro, Mindflayers, Chimera, Adamantoise, Abyss Worm, Hydra, Catoplebas, Cockatrice, 2-Headed Dragon (Complete with the ridiculously powerful physical attacks), the puddings with high physical resistance and weakness to magic... etc.
I'm surprised that with so many of them in the bestiary, there is no Tonberry, Coeurl, Ahriman and of course... the classic Behemoth (How could they forget him?) and many others could be included as well.
Anyway, this game was quite much THE GAME for me. It's been a while since I last played a fresh old-school RPG and felt so nostalgic. But there's still stuff to do on expansion, and I'm aiming towards it. However, first I'm gonna play the game from start again till Muenzuka because I only started recording my boss battles from Garden of Sun and above. (Didn't bother with it at first because I thought the game would be too hard for me to finish). And once I'm done with that, I'll have a complete video collection from the main game's bosses to post on youtube.
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she'd be completely useless in the first party, since nobody ever dies or needs any fix in there because of Aya and Reimu.
Hrm? She can always be used as a damage dealer. Her magic attacks work fine. Actually, if you got Mad Thunder, she can probably do great damage to Anastasis.
Nitori's commander spell -is- good for the final boss, the other use she'd have here is if you got her to level 65 so she gets her commander spell in non-commander form.
She actually probably DOES have other use in either using her elemental attacks/spellcards in stage 1 to hit weaknesses, which is actually probably fairly strong damage if you take a gun so she can buff herself with an element. Although the issue is you'd only really be able to smash one sister in the cycle real hard, maybe two if juggling elements to spam spellcards feels worth it to you. Chasers are boring here though, even if you have marisa/patch both on this stage, it negates their doublecasting chances which probably add up to more damage themselves. Or she could be whacking the last phase with Kusanagi for minor extra damage while she uses her lv65 Camo.
In my experience, you really don't need patch in the second party unless you're also using it to handle Phase 2. If it's doing phase two, it means she can drain the land and then manipulate for Dark with her spellcard. If she's in your first party and they're doing phase 2, then as long as the land is wiped before the second party enters, you shouldn't have an issue. (Hell, my party one was made to soak a Void Gravitation via mokou reraise) The last boss should die fast enough to Youmu that it doesn't matter, and in a worst-case scenario, that 10000 heal doesn't mean much in comparison to Youmu's damage and you can try to soak Void Gravitation with Reflect Wall/Magic Super Duplex/Nitori Camo/temp measure in Little Legion, etc.
As well, people usually use Sanae in the first party, so as long as you're prepared, I wouldn't worry about whether or not Sanae is in the second. Honestly; she doesn't have room to use more then one buff without getting in the way of Youmu, who will have 1.Stance 2.Amp-Scroll 3.Dark Sword 4.Atk up, and optionally even 5.Crit Boost, which you'd be taking off for a Sanae buff. She's probably better off in the first party. (If you really want revives, you can try to teach Satori Raise Dead off of a phoenix in Stage... 20, right?, but I think it's a bit of a doozy :V I haven't tried it though, I will once I get there in my new playthrough)
With Poison Shield and Alice, and proper preparation for status effects, I don't think you need to worry about unlucky shots anyway. Also, on the offshot Alice DID get Petrified off the boss' spellcard or minus or something (Does she have instant death like that one person suggested? Does anyone really know? In the videos I've seen and my personal experience, if she does, I've never seen it work, at the least) Satori could use Refresh to take it off. Or clearance, but refresh isn't that hard to get and also fullheals.
Satori's use in third phase, lesse here. Dark Manipulation, Healing, Status Cure in emergency, Raise Dead if you somehow actually got it, and... actually I think I managed to land a debuff on her once when I tried for lolz, and all that support doesn't need any stats behind it, so you could spec her out for varieties and take a matk debuff like Psycho Blast or somethin'. With Alice her physicals should be useless already. Then Reflect Wall (not starlight barrier with it's 8 turn cooldown that can wear off if she uses some other move first), Leaf Shield. That would be 7 moves assuming there was a status cure heal -and- an AOE heal, but that would also assume you have Raise Dead which you really probably won't, and you could just drop the debuff slot or Leaf Shield if you did. Actually seems like a pretty useful gal to have around, and between her and Reimu and Alice you'd be able to stop almost all of the boss' attacks.
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Her instant death attack is Chysaor Golden Slash, or something that sounds like that. The first time I fought her (and was doing well enough to have hopes of winning), she used that one Youmu away from dying, and IK'd my Alice :V At least I somehow managed to win after that because of Youmu's beautiful cast speed.
I think I'll try swapping Sanae for Satori in the second party. I don't think I'll need to worry about RES too much because I'll try to keep Youmu covered every turn (which means no surprise Vortexes for her) and I guess everyone would appreciate the extra Leaf Shields and other barriers. Refresh should be enough for Sanae-ish things (as well as Byakuren's Goddess Breath) and save to random lucky shots, I don't think anyone is going to die. Unless her random Goddess Danmaku snipes Patchouli or something.
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If you are really that worried about RES, use Byakuren's RES. But you can only really have 4 buffs on Youmu, because Super Duplex Barrier counts as a buff, so unless you don't mind removing a buff, only put 4 buffs on Youmu. Stance, Attack Up, All Up, and Dark Sword are really all you can put on Youmu. That or do not even cast All Up and use Res Up.
In either cast, between Super Duplex Barrier, Satori's Magic Reflect, Alice's shields, and Nitori's commander bomb, you should be able to negate several turns of the boss' damage.
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Chrysaor Golden Slash is also a spellcard anyway; in that case, Alice is really the only one who needs RES.
Er, at least, I'm fairly sure the final boss version is still only a spellcard.
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Looks like there's been another change in Weekend: instead of needing 25 and 100 party wipes for Komachi's and Tenshi's formations, respectively, you now only need 15 (possibly lower) and 30 wipes.
And yes, that skill I mentioned is indeed a spell card. Forgot to mention that because I am stupid.
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Sadly, you still need 50 oarfish kills for the Thunder Line formation from Iku, which is actually useful for a couple bosses due to high parrarability and significant lightning damage boost. (Notably, the terminator postgame, which will be farmed often, whether to gain Super Ajas, or for exp/quest resets in grinding for levels/materials.)
Oh well, need lots of monster kills to unlock that 15k youkai kill recipe set of killer awesome stuff. My 100%-goal run is currently just finished up with Forest of Magic 2.
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Looks like there's been another change in Weekend: instead of needing 25 and 100 party wipes for Komachi's and Tenshi's formations, respectively, you now only need 15 (possibly lower) and 30 wipes.
And yes, that skill I mentioned is indeed a spell card. Forgot to mention that because I am stupid.
What about the formation that requires Patchouli to die 101 times?
I already killed myself 100+ times for the formations so I guess it does not matter much at this point. XD
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What about the formation that requires Patchouli to die 101 times?
Still the same I'm afraid, but fortunately Patchy dying != party wipe. In the same vein, Last Moriya, Neo Hakurei, Final Burst still retains its requirements.
I didn't know Keystone and Shinigami Formation's requirements were reduced; getting to Komachi and Tenshi gave me enough deaths to make up for the old limits. <_<
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So yeah, now that a re-release that's overall much less RNG rage came out, I'm going to try to play through this legitimately again.
I remember asking this question before, but I forgot the answers, so I'll ask again: what are good skills for Satori to learn? I know Area Heal (and to some extent other healing spells), Enervate, Time Stop and Starlight Barrier are great, but that's about it. I don't know how to use her to attack at all.
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She doesn't have any real attacks, so use her as a support character. Her Poison Art is really her only source of damage for pretty much most of the main game, if you want damage. She does combo with Nitori to do chasers, which is devastating at early and mid game. You can also give her a staff, which is normally my weapon of choice for her.
edit: somehow I missed the doesn't.
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Satori does have real attacks :V Her magic is fine as soon as she's got enough points to have 20 in Satori and 13 in Third Eye (with the rest into Staff). In that case, it's basically any of her magic. Since she's the only one with Dark nonspells apart from Byakuren, picking up the now not-that-hard-to-learn Demon series of spells is nifty since lots of enemies (namely the mook fairies in each stage) are weak to Dark and Demon skills are stronger, but all the other elements also apply. The main thing helping keep her damage up is her ability to hit all weaknesses with her ability to access multiple single and multitarget moves of every element.
If you learn Mad Thunder from Iku (which is not that hard due to multihit and 100% learn rate at max Satori tree, unless you have bad luck with her using Thunderclap first instead, which doesn't seem to happen much), then Mad Thunder is also a very powerful attack in general. At least on a single target. It does 2~3 hits, and each hit by itself rivals the damage of a hit from Marisa or Patch for me.
Poison Art is alright until around Stage 13, and you should have 33 POW by/around then. Having her and Patchouli combine their multi-target magic for chaser abuse is highly effective as well, yeah.
Also does well as a support character for bosses, or for Permanent Status support (as in more then just Poison Art) in randoms. Her default skills work fine for permanents as long as you equip Squall Hairpins and pump the Trauma tree to speed her up, because some of those are slow as shit. It's actually a pretty good idea to have Silence or Great Confusion along for some dungeons (MOOON WRAAAAITH), and Sleep/Paralysis doesn't hurt either.
In expansion though, the damage of all but her most powerful spells is sucky (Stuff like Mad Thunder and her nukes can still be good), as well as chasers that aren't actually hitting a weakness. However, she can still find much use in her status effect moves like Time Stop, Mind Blast, etc, plus with her last two Eyes her physical damage actually becomes competent, opening up her physical skills for use. Even better, her last two weapons inflict Charm and/or Control on physical hits, making her physical skills more exciting there as well. Woo, Death Zapper; you get good damage, and either Instant Death or Charm! At that point you can consider using a Knife too for the knife's status, and the Knife Tree's +20% chance to inflict status on physical hits, although Satori won't be doing much pure damage unlike with an eye. Upside is there's two decent lategame daggers with MP drain (one of which also inflicts Silence), which combined with the status chance perk and speed, actually makes them a quite considerable choice.
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Her elemental hit all attacks aren't all that exciting. Mad Thunder, I did not get, so I don't know how good that is. Using her with Nitori makes her useful, especially if you can have Patchouli in the party for double hit all element attacks. Her dark element attacks are decent, but I don't remember it being that impressive either, but she is one of the few that can use it, so there's that.
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Well there's no kill like overkill! With Mad Thunder, you can kill Matsuba Kurenai (Stage 16 Genbu's Swamp boss) in a single turn.
What a wimp
I even bothered to record it (http://www.livestream.com/tumalu/video?clipId=pla_ef54f386-1b66-4ac9-9209-9612272d0515) (at 5:25, also derp at forgetting to change Marisa's growth tree until around 3ish minutes in), although the quality is kind of terrible because I recorded via livestreaming and my internet isn't too good at such. If I bothered using youtube or something I probably would bother to get some actual recording program.
At first I was aiming for two turns but soon went "...oh dear..." when I saw how close to death she was in turn 2.
Also, power of Mad Thunder seen inside, with a comparison to Patchouli and Marisa's elec power. There's even a comparison of Mad Thunder with 0 matk/elec boosting accessories and then with my best ones since at first my setup was different.
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So guys... I'm going to start expansion mode soon. As for now, I've only watched the intro, took a look at the first side-quests and tried to develop some strategy on how to use Lithos (which didn't go very well).
So, any tips on how to use her properly? (like, how to distribute the power points adequately and stuff). Also, same thing for the other expansion characters: Remilia, Reisen, Yuugi and Cirno. When I get them, how should I use each of them wisely?
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Well there's no kill like overkill! With Mad Thunder, you can kill Matsuba Kurenai (Stage 16 Genbu's Swamp boss) in a single turn. What a wimp
Heh, I spent longer killing Matsuba, but the jump in Mad Thunder's damage as the Lightning Land level increases is crazy.
I had to kill Matsuba and the Combined Boss the old fashioned way tho, those 2 kept on OHKOing Patchy in Turn 1 =.=
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@Mad Thunder: That's very good damage. It does about 3 times more damage than Patchouli's lightning magic, which means it is the strongest lightning attack in the game against single targets.
I don't think the other two have their full skill tree yet, so they can still catch up with Satori in lightning damage. They would do similar damage to that later on.
@Remilia, Yuugi, and Reisen: These guys are fairly easy to use. Yuugi is just pure attack. Remilia has some funny stuff if you use staff. Reisen, you just stack statuses on the enemy and the special slayer bonus will stack. She should be able to hit 99,999 damage fairly quickly.
Cirno's ice magic does full damage to pretty much every enemy. She is a pretty gimmicky character. You can also use her for some special enemies, like any enemies that you need magic reflect to win. She has a spell reflect that lasts several turns, so she will auto reflect magic. Use her against one of the bosses that pretty much auto kill you if you don't reflect the spell. She also has counter attack whenever she's hit. She is best if you give her a staff.
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So, any tips on how to use her properly? (like, how to distribute the power points adequately and stuff). Also, same thing for the other expansion characters: Remilia, Reisen, Yuugi and Cirno. When I get them, how should I use each of them wisely?
Lithos:She can realistically be set up for Magic -or- Physical damage, but you really need to go all out for magic to work out, so you can't do both. At first you'll have trouble in randoms, so you'll probably want to take advantage of her petrification; she gets a natural increase early in some POW tree, and her skills naturally have VERY high petrification rates, along with Minus being decent for damage in randoms at first.
For boss damage, use Pegasus Meteor Attack (or the punch if you don't have Pegasus yet), and if you already have her higher level fixed damage Last Spell that works too. Aging Drizzle is GREAT for randoms but it'll go last if you aren't using, like, Aya to speed Lithos up, and obviously takes up a lot of mp/bombs. One thing worth noting for later is her magic tree's Rainbow Wings boosts elemental damage by 50%; and this applies to physicals. That turns Pegasus Meteor into a powerful fir/wtr/eth/ele nuke with Byakuren. Keep in mind you can get Pegasus Meteor's cooldown to 0.
Remi:Speedy, eva-high, and powerful physical attacks. She's like Aya, except a good attacker. Fairly straightforward, although she carries some other uses as well, such as HP drain (her javelin move Vampire Drill notably has decent power+drain), HP% damage in Star of David, and a high hit chance Charm in Red Magic. Her MP is an issue, but if you hand her off a staff for 3% mp drain on hit and combine it with her +150 patk tree, she can take a battle to soak up mp from the enemies. (One of her low-tier javelins also has MP drain). Can be effectively used as a blinktank with HP drain to keep her up from magic hits, in some bosses.
Yuugi:Get Knockout in Three Steps, and then kill things with it. That's about it. She's a one-trick pony, but her damage potential is also very high, and combined with her special weapon's slayers and maybe even Youmu's three bomb commander to induce KO3S to crit... damn. Like, damn.
Reisen:She gets lots and lots of bombs, slayers on (some of?) her Suppositories, and tons of slayers from one of her POW trees. Her spellcards can inflict a variety of statuses in one move via a choice menu. But her real specialty is her Special Slayer skills, that have a slayer effect on enemies with variety and/or permanent status effects. With 5 varieties and/or a permanent on the enemy, she deals insane damage, and you can realistically get her to hit 99999.
Cirno:Well... her main use is inflicting the Freeze status to stop enemies in their tracks, or sometimes instant death. She also has a niche debuff, the ability to reflect magic from herself, and counter enemy attacks with ice, which are a bunch of niche skills that can be useful sometimes. She can also pierce a good amount of water resistance on enemies, making her WTR-element moveset able to reliably damage even resistant enemies in randoms.
Her special weapon actually -does- improve her, despite being physical on wimpy Cirno and not boosting her magic at all; it has much better freeze infliction rates, ignores a huge amount of WTR resist, carries a good Instant Death move, and actually deals alright damage. You'll pretty much ignore all of her non-weapon moveset apart from her magic-reflecting mirror, if you have it on, but it's weapon moves are worthy, and her normal attacks will still carry Freeze.
You'll not really want to bring her in for most bosses after you have a choice (outside of silly Barrier/Mirror tanking with resistance accessories, or if you feel like it against a water-weak boss), but she can have use in randoms.
Starxsword:Mad Thunder pretty much always greatly outdamages Marisa's elec abilities. Patchouli's final Elec bomb compares, but it also isn't spammable every turn... I don't remember about how Lithos with elec-enchant Pegasus Meteor+Rainbow Wings boost does in comparison, but it's a fearsome thing, I remember that much.
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So guys... I'm going to start expansion mode soon. As for now, I've only watched the intro, took a look at the first side-quests and tried to develop some strategy on how to use Lithos (which didn't go very well).
So, any tips on how to use her properly? (like, how to distribute the power points adequately and stuff). Also, same thing for the other expansion characters: Remilia, Reisen, Yuugi and Cirno. When I get them, how should I use each of them wisely?
1. Kusanagi
2. Mess around with her growth points until you get as many bombs as you can and as much delay reduction as you can
3. Bombs +5 accessory
4. Pegasus Meteor Attack
5. Everything dies.
For added "everything dies"-ness, get Nitori and use Sword/Multi-chaser.
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Anyone here got some Cheat Engine codes for the crafting materials? I've tried to hack it myself but the values I've found keep spazzing out for no reason and when I freezed them, the game crashed.
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PS and OT: Because of references to China (aka Hong Meiling or Kurenai Misuzu), Kurenai Matsuba shall henceforth be known as Taiwan. <_<
It's a pity I don't see those 2 meeting anytime soon. >_>
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Her special weapon actually -does- improve her, despite being physical on wimpy Cirno and not boosting her magic at all; it has much better freeze infliction rates, ignores a huge amount of WTR resist, carries a good Instant Death move, and actually deals alright damage. You'll pretty much ignore all of her non-weapon moveset apart from her magic-reflecting mirror, if you have it on, but it's weapon moves are worthy, and her normal attacks will still carry Freeze.
Against most enemies, staff is superior. I have both the Rivalry staff and the Crystal Sword and Rivalry staff(-1 water resist) generally outperforms Crystal Sword(-3 water resist). Cirno does respectable damage and the mana regen from the staff doesn't hurt either. Cirno runs into mana issues when you use the Crystal Sword and her damage isn't any better than when you use the Rivalry staff.
However, I do not have 9 Robe, so I cannot do a full comparison between Crystal Sword and Rivalry staff. The 9 Robe should make her Crystal Sword more effective with its high counter rate.
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Huh?
I think the counter is magical, so the sword wouldn't be better, but I don't remember what my testing results got on whether it's magical or physical or some combination of the two so whatever. But in any case, the point of using the Ice weapons is more the far higher rate of Freeze infliction, and the AoE instant death attack with damage+freeze as opposed to the damage/freeze-less one. Also blind I guess.
Crystal Sword has a base 60% freeze success rate. Compared to her magic, which has 30% on Icicle Attack, 20% on the stronger+aoe Ice Beam, and 15% on the multitarget Ice Storm. (Ice Counter is 999% so woo mp regen in freeze, plus can stop multi-moving bosses that aren't freeze-immune)
The mp I suppose is a thing, but whether or not that's an issue depends on the person I suppose, and at the least you can regain mp with normal attack freezing some.
Crystal Sword is pretty much better against bosses at least, unless the point is countering 100 times against a boss and getting damage that way (if it gets a significant damage boost from a rod), since the weapon skills just plain beat out the others in sheer single target damage, along with the better freeze (which does occasionally hit on some bosses). In my original playthrough I'd use her when grinding the Machine Dragon quest as a sillytank (If she has slash/mystic resist she's invincible for that boss, so lol barrier counters, and then her weapon attacks for good damage and multihit for nitori to chase along with Sakuya ice sword multihits)
Of course, I've never actually gotten to use her Ice Counter thing, so if it's -not- the same as the ice barrier counter, then I'm silly. (Because jeez, in the previous version, the final character specific armors were hard as fuc to make, and Cirno isn't -that- useful plus her armor looks shitty. It only has pdef... but it's a small armor, which would normally carry several other stats. :T There's WTR damage boost armors to give her instead. Or a fire one for resistance purposes.)
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I have not gotten her Ice Counter armor, since it sucks, and back then end game tier items are super hard to make, so I don't know if the counter from the armor is physical or magical. I just assumed it is physical, because all the other counters are physical.
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I assumed it was the same as her Ice Barrier counter, which is magical, but now that I think about it, it could be something completely different, so I don't know.
I also wasn't sure whether it'd be that or just a 40% power boost to said barrier, which actually sounds kind of nifty except that the barrier is only significantly powerful when you're counterattacking the shit out of everything (lol now I'm questioning actually using a poison shield cirno tank in ex stage randoms via getting her to star/double circle resist in everything but fire)
but it really doesn't sound like a power boost, so.
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Cirno's a gimmicky character, kind of fun to use at times. Her advantage is that she has good consistent damage, as long as everything is hitting her. Unfortunately, her defenses and HP aren't on par with trying to get her to have good consistent damage.
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For crafting, which items do you think are high priorities? I know that Sakuya needs nearly every one of her swords (because of slayer on different things), and Alice doesn't need most of her weapons, but beyond that I'm less sure. Are the generic weapon/armor/shields worth it or should I save my elemental shards for other things?
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For crafting, the vast majority of the items don't make a big difference. It's best to try and save a lot of your character-specific crafting materials for the later items, so that you don't have to farm subquests as much.
I actually liked using Sakuya with daggers, for the boosted infliction rate on Instant Death from her Murder Tree, and the status effects that come on them by themselves. And, if you don't use Sakuya much until later, then it doesn't matter if her latest 2H-sword isn't crafted. I definitely recommend crafting her Trapezohedron-tier sword though, it comes in super handy in expansion. (Same with Youmu's trapezohedron Katana for the final boss)
One decent snake or broom isn't a bad idea for the mp regeneration abilities, and there's a boss or two where having a good Gun for nitori can be helpful. The Rainbow Greaves are also great. Deva Scroll is nice for being the only scroll with IND boost. Apart from that, most of the character-specific weapons aren't super exciting, although they're generally slightly better then what you could use otherwise.
In expansion, you'll be able to craft everyone's best weapons and armors to your hearts delight (especially if you have a bunch of materials saved up to make it super easy), and at that point they're generally pretty great since their bonuses have gone up to a pretty high amount.
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If you are playing Weekend, then you can afford to craft much more stuff, so you don't really need to be stingy on crafting materials. However, with that said, character specific weapons aren't all that much better than regular weapons. I do suggest crafting at least a broom just to get the x2 mana regen that your basic starter broom does not give. Youmu's Foreign God slaying katana is a good one to get.
For shields, the heavy shields are pretty good for Alice.
Mokou's gloves that inflict status effects, like Great Confusion or Blind are good to craft. Death Resistance items are also good to craft.
Quite a bit of Sakuya's weapons are good to craft. They have some cool effects. The ones that give immunity to light/dark, immunity to breath, and immunity to Quick are nice.
Nitori's weapons are also good, if you plan to use her.
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In Weekend, you'll get enough unique materials to make pretty much all but one of a character's unique items, thanks to reduced crafting requirements. You find 10 of each in the main game, and in Weekend, you need I believe 11 to make all of a character's unique weapons/armor (aside from the ultimates, which need different character-specific items anyways). Since unique items are much easier to get in the expansion, you don't have to worry as much about saving up for those recipies.
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GuyYouMetOnline: This is true (apart from Nitori and Satori's weapons which still cost as much as before, for some reason), but you can save a -lot- of farming on subquests by not making a lot of the weapons. Most of them really aren't much better then normal ones anyway, nor do you need to upgrade for every tier at all.
Arguably some of them are even worse then normal weapons, because at some times you'll have some really nice weapon you can get in a stage, or you want a different attack type for weaknesses, or the character's specific gear just isn't that great (Example:Satori's eyes have no MP regen and worse m.atk then a staff, you don't really want to use one until Expansion! Her best 2 have enough cool perks to warrant use then, though, along with MP being less of an issue)
And, they do require different character-specific items, but you craft them out of the normal ones, so. They, happily, only take 4 instead of 6 now, to craft <3
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I actually liked using Sakuya with daggers, for the boosted infliction rate on Instant Death from her Murder Tree, and the status effects that come on them by themselves.
The main thing is that with a two-handed sword, Sakuya usually deals so much damage that she doesn't even need that instant death.
As for the rest of the characters, I'd say at least a few are worth crafting.
- Reimu's Divine Spirit Gohei is the first step in getting her to deal a lot of damage, so for me it's one of those. Her Bombs Gohei helps a lot when she's in the support role as well, and it's really cheap. Eventually, you'll want to upgrade it to the Exorcism Gohei.
- Any of Marisa's brooms is good, but I recommend going for the ones that give her extra bombs.
- For Sanae's snakes, I think it would be a good idea to get a new one whenever you want to use her offensively, and Yamata no Orochi for the double attack. After the expansion, the Asklepios is amazing for its +50% healing power.
- Aya's fans are mostly worthless for damage, but Demon Lord's Fan and Deadly Fan are amazing for their Evasion boosts.
- For Sakuya, I recommend getting Great Maid, Arondight, Vyse Sword, Durandal(expansion) and since it's so cheap, the Claymore as well. Even outside of Weekend, you should have enough materials to make all of these in a single run.
- Patchouli's books will never reach the same amount of damage rods do for her, but they're interesting for their effects. I think the Comiket Catalog is pretty much the most helpful of them, but you should try making a new book for her whenever you want to see physical damage and you have enough points for Knowledge Base and Books. Just stick a few Headshot Goggles on her and watch the damage go, daggers or axes don't come nowhere nearly close.
- Nitori's guns are all good, but I recommend getting the Carbine and never letting it go -- simply because of its slayer effect against Transcendents.
- Rainbow Greaves are the only boots Alice will ever need (until you can make Rainbow Kamikaze Greaves, at least.
- The Green Eyes can help with Satori's poison skills, but I find the other eyes pretty much worthless. Then again, I've never researched too much about Self-Induced Hypnotism, so I'm probably wrong here. If you want to use that, just make her whatever eye is the strongest at the moment, I guess.
- Pretty much all of Youmu's Katanas are good, so craft them to your heart's content. Just be sure to leave enough materials for the Doujigiri Yasutsuna before tackling the final boss.
- Mokou's fists are all amazing. Magnum Steel and Invincible Glove should be obligatory for their effects, and if you get her early you should maybe try the Damascus Knuckle as well. For raw end-game damage, the One-Shot Punch is really good as well, even though it doesn't carry any status effects.
No opinions on the expansion characters because I've never gotten too far in there.
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So... I have finished all of the character quests except for yuugi's. Because I don't know how to unlock the "underworld" map.
Anyway, here's the power point distribution I gave to them (Cirno is probably the lamest, since I'm still a bit lost on what to give to her):
Lithos:
25 (evil eye) / 13 (golden sword) / 16 (rapier) / 10 (STR)
Reisen:
13 (Red Eyes) / 20 (Bunny Ears) / 25 (Moon Secrets)
Remilia:
25 (Supernatural) / 3 (Vampire) / 20 (Javelins) / 10 (STR)
Cirno:
16 (Fairy Power) / 25 (Strongest) 20 (Ice)
So, what do you guys think? Any recommendations?
Besides, what to do first on the expansion? I suppose I have to unlock stage 22... well, Lithos said I apparently have to go to Muenzuka and do something there, but I dunno what.
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Now for the obligatory second opinion! Going in the same order here.
I personally don't really think Reimu ever needs the extra bombs from the Bombs gohei, but if you personally run into situations in support where you need 'em, then it certainly doesn't hurt I suppose o: Starting at the Divine Spirit Gohei, they do give a good boost to Reimu's amulet and spellcard damage, so they're not really a bad craft; however, in the end, not only is the damage not a very big/needed difference, but there aren't any hard bosses where you need the light damage increase, until you can easily make her orichalcon one in expansion. They certainly aren't bad, though. I'm just conservative XD
Sanae's Healing +50% snake is pointless, as she will full-heal super easily; her ultimate Snake gives -1 cooldowns though, which is great. (It goes without saying though that almost every single ultimate character-specific weapon is something you should make though, so I'm not going to address them) They -are- nice for when you want an offensive Sanae, but the thing is; you'll get MUCH better damage return out of Sanae by using her to -buff- in random battles, once you get past early-to-mid game. They do have MP drain on hit though, which is quite nifty, so they're still worth considering to craft.
Aya's final fans have hidden effects (probably because their descriptions are packed); they do carry significant Perfect Dodge boosts and such. In any case, Fan Dance is a pretty nice move, although Aya is kind of shitty for dealing damage if her last word isn't up in the first place. The EVA boost fans are nice considering she's blinktank material. I think HomingCurvyLaser means Stardust Fan instead of Deadly Fan though. Chances are though, you're not using Aya in actual battle enough to really consider forging a fan; seriously.
The thing about getting Durandal is it's an Ostracon weapon; in other words, when you can forge it, you should just be forging the orichalcon weapon very soon anyway. Ostracon weapons are pretty much universally not worth making because of this. It becomes really easy to get orichalcon soon after you can make Ostracon stuff, and you get recipes for the super-specific crafting materials before that.
Point on Carbine is good. Eventually it's Patk will go stale, but for awhile, it's pretty nice, and it both hits weakness -and- slayer on those annoying Stage 14 mindflayers. It also becomes available at the right time for Nitori to be able to use it to great effect on some Warrior/Magician bosses, so it's doubly good to make.
Self-Induced Hypnotism is nice, but Satori's eyes really aren't worth the materials until her final two. They (the final ones) have secret Charm and Control infliction on hit, along with actually making her physical attacking power pretty substantial, and the IND bonus. The Green Eyes are alright though, yeah.
As for expansion characters, they're pretty straightforward; since you get them in expansion, you're already at the point where it's practically obligatory to make the orichalcon weapon, and then later upgrade it into the ultimate. Remilia is the only exception, as her Asgard has 1% mp drain, which is worth making to put on sometimes and turn Remi from limited mp to infinite mp in randoms. However; she can achieve similar effects with a Staff on anyway; the damage is lower, but she has the power and +150 patk pow tree to still deal enough for that 3% staff mp absorption on hit to make up. So. (For obvious reasons, you'd only leave the staff on just long enough to refill her mp, and then put a real weapon back on)
But anyway, yeah; main tip here, ostracon stuff, don't make it. Orichalcon, you just go ahead and make everything in it that you'd like at all, and later orichalcon gear gets upgraded into the ultimate gear, so you want to make it anyway.
Cut by Shastri:You unlock the underworld map by taking the quest, actually :V
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What about generic gears, then? All those elemental stuff are probably not really worth it, but what about the Kusanagi? Also on accessories, which ones are priorities?
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The thing about the elemental stuff is before long they start taking Crystals, which are not exactly in large supply >.o
The Kusanagi is totally worth crafting now that it only takes 5 iron and iron is way easier to get. As for accessories; the accessories that grant multiple bombs are nice (You'd make them in expansion anyway, although the +1 bomb is skippable), exp+ accessories are nice (Your commander's slots are free and they work there, so why not), and eventually you'll be able to upgrade Accessory III into Accessory IV, which is the big thing.
The heavy shields are nice for Alice, but once you unlock it late in the game, there's some really awesome small shields too, like the Autobarrier.
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Then I guess it's time for my opinions about your opinions!
Sanae's Healing +50% snake is pointless, as she will full-heal super easily;
Well, with that snake you can get a full heal for a lot less MP, in case you're as stingy as I am about it.
They -are- nice for when you want an offensive Sanae, but the thing is; you'll get MUCH better damage return out of Sanae by using her to -buff- in random battles, once you get past early-to-mid game.
Offensive Sanae is pretty fun at some points in the game, especially after you're able to get 25 points in buffs and enough to get a nice MP drain/offensive boost. Some stages in which I like to use her like that are Eientei, Great Temple and pretty much anywhere where you want a nice source of elec/earth damage.
I think HomingCurvyLaser means Stardust Fan instead of Deadly Fan though.
I just ctrl+c ctrl+v'd from the wiki, sorry :V
The thing about getting Durandal is it's an Ostracon weapon; in other words, when you can forge it, you should just be forging the orichalcon weapon very soon anyway. Ostracon weapons are pretty much universally not worth making because of this.
Oh, but her almost ultimate weapon doesn't have slayer effect on Satori's entire party :V I'd say that weapon is worth crafting just because of how fun that quest gets. Flan is easy to murder (with Sakuya) anyway, so farming her shouldn't be a problem.
Oh wow, I just noticed I forgot about Byakuren! Not a problem though, as her +25 IND scroll is all you'll need in the main game.
As for Ostracon stuff, I'd say that at least Sakuya's, Mokou's, Nitori's and Youmu's ones are worth crafting, because of slayer effects or other bonuses (+50% crit damage OH MY GOD). Yuugi's Ostracon weapon is also worth getting simply because it's Suika. Why wouldn't you enjoy throwing Suika with a watermelon at things.
What about generic gears, then? All those elemental stuff are probably not really worth it, but what about the Kusanagi? Also on accessories, which ones are priorities?
All the dual element ones are worth making if you want to have someone using those two elements, I guess. Especially the staves, as those boost your magical damage of those two elements by a considerable amount and there aren't many better things in the post-game anyway (save for that delicious 40 MATK staff).
So... I have finished all of the character quests except for yuugi's. Because I don't know how to unlock the "underworld" map.
Anyway, here's the power point distribution I gave to them (Cirno is probably the lamest, since I'm still a bit lost on what to give to her):
etc
Lithos wants as much spell card delay reduction as she can get in order to spam Pegasus Meteor every turn, which you can get with 16 in Evil Eye and 10 in Golden Sword. The rest is up to you, but I really recommend maximizing Family Members -- by now you should know how good Divine Barrier is, right?
Reisen is up to you as well, she just has so many good things it's hard to only choose a few.
Remilia likes attack, accuracy and that's it. Vampire doesn't give enough bonuses in my opinion, and her (only) magic never interested me too much.
Cirno only needs points in Motivation when you're feeling crazy and want to have her tank (which isn't that bad of an idea), and doesn't need anything in Ice if you're not using her physical attacks, which is something I've yet to do.
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What about generic gears, then? All those elemental stuff are probably not really worth it, but what about the Kusanagi? Also on accessories, which ones are priorities?
Dual element weapons are good, they are worth it. If you want an easy time doing Byakuren's quest, get the Grom Glas. That is an extremely powerful dagger that does lots of damage. You can kill the disk with it before it can use format.
The heavy armors are also good as it gives star resistance to one element and also gives regen in that element. All the elemental armors do that and so do the element weapons, so they are useful when you can set up a field.
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GuyYouMetOnline: This is true (apart from Nitori and Satori's weapons which still cost as much as before, for some reason), but you can save a -lot- of farming on subquests by not making a lot of the weapons. Most of them really aren't much better then normal ones anyway, nor do you need to upgrade for every tier at all.
Arguably some of them are even worse then normal weapons, because at some times you'll have some really nice weapon you can get in a stage, or you want a different attack type for weaknesses, or the character's specific gear just isn't that great (Example:Satori's eyes have no MP regen and worse m.atk then a staff, you don't really want to use one until Expansion! Her best 2 have enough cool perks to warrant use then, though, along with MP being less of an issue)
And, they do require different character-specific items, but you craft them out of the normal ones, so. They, happily, only take 4 instead of 6 now, to craft <3
But you can't craft them until the expansion, when basic character-specific materials are easy to get.
I like the unique weapons because of the bonus effects they tend to have. There are quite a few with exorcism effects, elemental bonuses, MP boosts, etc., which makes a lot of them quite nice for magic-based characters. Satori's don't seem to have much in the way of extra effects, though. Sakuya should, I think, get most of hers for slayer abuse (she's been one-shotting enemies like crazy in my current run. I just completed stage 17, and she's still one-shotting things). Nitori should get up-to-date guns simply because of how good her gun skills are, especially against bosses. Youmu's don't seem to be too special; some of them do have some nice effects, but it's generally not a good idea to rely on statuses, though they can help if you get lucky and manage to land them, but stuff like stop and instant death doesn't exactly land extremely reliably. The effects on Mokou's fists seem to land more easily, (probably because stuff like silence and blind isn't quite as good as stop or instant death) and the possibility to attack twice is always welcome. Alice doesn't need a good weapon of any kind; her shield and armor are far more important. Sanae isn't a good attacker at all, and Aya, well, she doesn't seem to do damage very well, either. On the rare occasions that I use her in battle (I prefer to use her as a commander), it's for her support skills.
So, yea, I generally do prefer to give characters their unique weapons, although there's no reason to stay limited to those if you find some good generic weapons, since you can redstripute skill points freely. And material availability in Weekend is good enough that you don't really have to worry too much about conserving materials, either. So I pretty much just make whatever looks good at the time, and if I don't use it for very long, well, whatever.
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doesn't need anything in Ice if you're not using her physical attacks
If you're not using physical attacks you -probably- shouldn't have Ice on, unless they just have that much wtr resist, because Ice kind of doesn't help your magic damage at all, wheras a Staff...
Her Ice weapon skills are actually pretty nice, anyway. Keep in mind they all come with a Freeze rate that's far higher then Cirno's magic, in addition to what they already do.
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It is possible to beat up to Stage 21 boss without synthesizing anything. Although it involves a lot of running away and a bit of luck.
Interesting thing I noticed with Nitori's skills were :
When you give elemental cooldown and physical skill cooldown with skill trees, her ?+WTR attacks will have 1 cooldown.
When you give WTR attribute, it still has 1 cooldown, but with FIR, ELE, or ETH attribute, it is reduced to 0 cooldown.
Since the +WTR part is calculated with (PATK-MDEF)*(percent), it could become in handy with high PDEF enemies.
Sanae's ultimate weapon has -1 cooldown, so you can spam Wind of Miracles every turn, which makes quite the difference.
The 'Fix enemy encounters' exploit is very useful, and it cuts grinding time by a lot. Although it doesn't work with Zera Beetles.
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'Fix enemy encounters' exploit?
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...oh wow, the -elemental cooldown stacks on multielemental attacks? That's interesting. I wonder if there's any other exploits that can be done considering the endgame synthesis weapons with -two- elements, which means you can enchant another one on; hell, Nitori could have a Tetra-Elemental attack. Wait, is that a word? Whatever, I just mean all four elements.
If this stacks with Lithos' Rainbow Wings -three times- then that would make Pegasus Meteor Attack do the most godly damage ever
Also, fix enemy encounter exploit sounds hella useful, yo. I need to be in the know on this.
and... what do you mean that spamming Wind of Miracles makes a difference? Does it stack on itself? o_O
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It's more like 'Save game anywhere', but because of how the game handles encounters, you also can meet the same enemies over and over again.
To perform it, just open and close the menu with the X button(the 'C' key by default).
Then copy the ここはバックアップフォルダです in the 'save\Backup' file, then paste to 'save' file and change the name to TSD000.sav or something.
First heal at the Hakurei Shrine and enter the dungeon.
Once you reach the area where you can meet the enemy, open and close the menu in the dungeon before , then meet the enemy.
If it isn't what you want, just run away or fight, then do the open and close again.
If it is what you want, copy and paste, change name. Then fight the enemy.
If you somehow didn't get what you want, or have to change the party members, or if the Yukkuri ran away, press F12 to reset and open the save file.
You will be where you opened and closed the menu. The next enemy you meet will be the same ones.
When you prepared your party, you have to do the copy-paste again.
Doesn't matter if it is another enemy symbol as long as it is in the same area.
Sometimes you just might get kicked out of the dungeon.
This happens when you either didn't copy and paste the file, or when you got wiped out and didn't heal at a magic circle before meeting the enemy.
If it is the first case, just copy and paste and reset without will fix it.
If it is the second case, you're out of luck. You should go heal at the Hakurei Shrine and try again.
It won't work on Zera Beetles and Harbor Frogs on Stage 21, but it also means that even if they weren't there in the first place,
it might pop up in one of the reset battles.
About Sanae's Wind of Miracles,
One effect is that it gives 'Status Enhance' which boost every Variety statuses that the Ally uses.
This includes 'Wind of Miracles' itself. The fourth one somehow doesn't work.
Second effect is that it boosts varieties already in effect. Except for 'Status Enhance' itself.
Example
Acala Sword : 1332
Weapon Bless + Acala Sword : 2283
Weapon Bless + Wind of Miracles + Acala Sword : 2549
Weapon Bless + (Wind of Miracles)*2 + Acala Sword : 2977
Weapon Bless + (Wind of Miracles)*3 + Acala Sword : 3609
Wind of Miracles + Weapon Bless + Acala Sword : 2528
Wind of Miracles + Weapon Bless + Wind of Miracles + Acala Sword : 2955
Wind of Miracles + Weapon Bless + (Wind of Miracles)*2 + Acala Sword : 3570
(Wind of Miracles)*2 + Weapon Bless + Acala Sword : 2583
(Wind of Miracles)*3 + Weapon Bless + Acala Sword = 2609
(Wind of Miracles)*5 + Weapon Bless + Acala Sword = 2609
Wind of Miracles + Weapon Bless + (Wind of Miracles)*9 + Acala Sword : about 21000.
(I used Acala Sword because it deals PDEF ignoring fixed damage)
Admittedly, I sorta exaggerated the cooldown-1 effect, but taking only 3 turns instead of 5 turns to set up 3 Wind of Miracles is quite something.
Everything else that Sanae has is also reduced to 0 cooldown.
On a side note, I got Mokou to reach over 20000HP with HP Up + Wind of Miracles spamming.
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On a side note, I got Mokou to reach over 20000HP with HP Up + Wind of Miracles spamming.
teaspit.jpg
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On a side note, I got Mokou to reach over 20000HP with HP Up + Wind of Miracles spamming.
Can I have an image? I didn't even know it could that high. The closest I've gotten 1516
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How do I upload Images?
EDIT : Maybe something like this?
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Another thing worth noting; in map E of Genbu Lake (stage 17), the yukkuri encounter for the area is the Stray Yukkuri (melty marisa), and it doesn't seem to be limited.
I seriously just got a yukkuri encounter from every single enemy in that room without much trouble. (Run spamming, not all in a row) Normally the game decreases the chances to run into a yukkuri on a map each time you encounter one, but it doesn't seem to on this one. (From what I remember, this might apply to the King Yukkuri spawn in stage 21 too, but that either goes away entirely or becomes limited after you beat the main game)
Granted, you normally really don't need to bother yukkuri grinding (at least not here when you can do it on Kings later), but I'm trying to get the Yukkuri Medal Of Honor drop.
Edit:Okay after like 12 yukkuri kills on this map they seem to be harder to encounter now. But jeez. Until then they popped up like nothing. On any other maps it only took 1~5 encounters or so for them to start getting pretty rare.
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So, would that mean Youmu can have super high HP, since her stance also ups HP and it is quite significant, from 700 hp to 1300 hp.
By the way, is Wind of Miracles meant to stack like that?
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It's probably not intended, but there's no way we could know without like, asking the developers.
But yeah, when I hit expansion, I definitely have to test if Rainbow Wings stacks multiple times with more elements in the mix, like the elemental cooldown reduction does. Because that would be way too powerful to not abuse. I mean, sure, Nitori would be able to get some mileage out of it (She gets +20% elemental damage), but Lithos gets +50% and on an attack that's pretty powerful already, so.
I suppose it's very possible though, that it'd work, but it'd only increase the specific element's chunk of the damage, rather then the overall damage. That'd still have pretty nice results! It wouldn't be godly, though, but, you get what you can~
...hp increase abuse could really cheese out some bosses, though, come to think of it.
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Sorry to butt in on all of these great discoveries, but...
I'm going after the last few Learn skills on Satori pre-expansion, and I have been unable to inflict Charm on the Stage 20 Phoenix for Raise Dead even with Easy Mode, Byakuren's IND buff, an ALL up, three IND accessories, 25 points in her IND tree and 16 in Support Magic and an Omen in the Purple Mist and Unresist debuff AND a Sanae LW activation off of Youmu's resistance-halving commander spell (out of curiosity), but apparently Charm is possible?
If so, help ;A;
Mad Thunder; I got Thunderclap on Iku (I didn't have Weekend at this time) and I have yet to see a Zera Beetle in Stage 21. Are they on any specific maps?
Iron Drain; Can the Ammonite be Controlled to use this/Charmed into it or is there a way to make its use more reliable?
Smash: I can't find anything pre-expansion that uses this or Dissolve and isn't a boss, but there are apparently monsters that use these two skills somewhere in Stage 21?
Sorry to ask so many questions :C
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Zera Beetles are just rare as FUCK. I've been around the block more than a few times and I've only ever seen two.
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Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but, the formation you get from Iku for killing 100 Oarfish is now only 50 in Weekend.
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errrr it was always 50 o_o
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*looks at wiki again*
Oh! Not sure why I thought it was 100. :blush:
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Edit:Okay after like 12 yukkuri kills on this map they seem to be harder to encounter now. But jeez. Until then they popped up like nothing. On any other maps it only took 1~5 encounters or so for them to start getting pretty rare.
Y'know, I keep getting the feeling that the RNG for Yukkuris is pretty skewed somehow. So far I know these guaranteed locations*:
1. Single Yukkuri - Muenzuka - 2 screens down from entrance, around the pit area.
2. Single Yukkuri Sisters - Eientei Inner - 2 screens up and 1 screen left from the entrance. If the first enemy you run into it isn't, it's probably in one of the litle rooms.**
3. Double Yukkuri Sisters - Mount Youkai Summit - From the boss Save, go left 2 screens, and down the steps. Work from any treasure chest and there should be one.
4. Single Yukkuri Sisters - Forest of Magic Revisited - From the entrance, up 1 and left 1. I always seem to hit one near the other exit.
5 Single Stray Yukkuri - Forest of Magic Revisited - From the entrance, up 1 and left 2 (the area where there's a roundabout route surrounding a pipe entrance). Start from the upper left corner and you should encounter one.
*Note: guaranteed only if you fully respawn all enemy icons an area. If you come back when the area is only partially populated the guaranteed Yukkuri may NOT spawn. I'm also not sure if they are affected by Leveling or Number Killed as well,..
** This may be affected by where you are in the game; I stopped encountering this one after I found the Double Sisters in Mount Youkai for some reason...
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I'm going after the last few Learn skills on Satori pre-expansion, and I have been unable to inflict Charm on the Stage 20 Phoenix for Raise Dead even with Easy Mode, Byakuren's IND buff, an ALL up, three IND accessories, 25 points in her IND tree and 16 in Support Magic and an Omen in the Purple Mist and Unresist debuff AND a Sanae LW activation off of Youmu's resistance-halving commander spell (out of curiosity), but apparently Charm is possible?
You probably want to charm the turtle, I think it is called adamantite turtle or something, in stage 20 to learn Raise Dead.
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Is it even possible to learn Raise Dead pre-expansion?
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Not too sure, but I do know the turtle knows raise dead, but I don't think it is in the control list. So you will need to interrupt in order to get it to raise dead your party members.
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You can't learn Raise Dead pre-expansion. Don't waste your time like I did now.
If Satori is alive, the enemy's Raise Dead will misfire. (No battle animation)
If Satori is dead, the enemy's Raise Dead will hit Satori and revive her, but she won't learn it. (I did put 25 POW on her Satori Skill Tree)
By the way, those Spirit Turtles have some natural resistance to Charm and Control. So annoying.
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The Wiki lies :C
It doesn't even mention the Spirit Tortoises, and says you can do it by using Mokou's Commander spell to revive her before the Raise Dead activates or something.
Oh well, I guess :C
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If Satori is alive, the enemy's Raise Dead will misfire. (No battle animation)
...the spell hitting Satori while she's alive is the way to learn it, so something must have gone wrong :T
Maybe it actually targetted someone else or something? If there's no animation, then, I guess you couldn't really tell. Although I imagine you did it by quickreviving her before the Tortoise moved, and no one else had been dead, so that it'd realistically only could have been Satori.
Raise Dead in general sounds like a nightmare to learn though. You have to interrupt it, everything that has it carries a significant amount of resistance to charm/control (I remember trying forever to charm/control those damn Super Hairballs with no success, although now that Launch Earring V exists, maybe...? :T In general everything that was super hard to control should be a lil' easier now), and you have to do some weird thing with Reimu's lv90 barrier or some kind of dance with a revival skill (I imagine Sanae's work's fine too, it's just you have to make sure it goes off fast enough, Mokou's overall would just be simpler), and then hope the damn thing actually cast it. Combining all those together makes for AUGH.
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I actually didn't try quickreviving. Like hell it works anyway. Wasted another hour trying to check.
I heard that even Control + Manual Aiming doesn't work.
And raising IND is useless against natural resistance.
Reimu's Hakurei Duplex Barrier(Lv. 90) only works because it somehow also has the effect of 50% Decoy.
You don't need to kill or revive anyone. Killing one enemy on first turn, then using Hakurei Duplex Barrier on the second turn works fine.
Reimu has Cast Speed +1000% in one of her trees, so you shouldn't worry about being fast.
You can always use the 'save anywhere' trick I mentioned to cut time drastically.
So, in a grinding sense, it is a nightmare.
My Reimu is only Lv.88 now, so I'll tell you if it works once I reach Lv. 90.
Anyway, who wrote the false information?
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So, how are you supposed to get Raise Dead then? I know the turtle has it, but how would you try to learn from it?
The other method mentioned was the Super Hairball, the second method seems to be as hard as trying to charm the turtle.
I think the Phoenix is impossible, but not sure.
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I'm sorely reminded of how much I hate stage 14.
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I heard that even Control + Manual Aiming doesn't work.
The wiki says you cannot manually target Satori with Raise Dead if she isn't dead, and that's why that doesn't work.
I personally could never land Control on the Super Hairball with the best IND I could manage+sexy underwear and super control spam times, so I have no idea if that's true.
And, what, if the monster has 95% resist, is it impossible to get more then 5% success rate no matter what? That was not the impression I was under.
Someone I know is trying to get it off the turtle or phoenix from stage 20, before they go to stage 21. I managed to get them to give up for a little while saying it wasn't worth the effort, after they tried for two hours, but they insisted on trying again in the morning. :T
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Hup hup, I'm up to Muenzuka now in this run <3
I am currently being incredibly adamant on getting Satori to 30 before Komachi because I will have Shinigami Scythe dammit >:C (And Tentacle so I don't forget)! Currently just have an all physical party+Satori+Melon Sword and going to the yukkuri place described earlier in Muenzuka. Which I must thank you for, incidentally! Grinding otherwise is horrifying.
Currently I'm at level 25. hooplahhhh <3 Although, when the time comes, how do I manage to get Komachi to smack her with it?
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That's easy, Komachi pretty much counters the first physical attack made on her with Shinigami Scythe on whoever attacked her. Have Satori attack on the very first turn with whatever she has on hand while the rest of your team buffs up. If you don't learn it there and then, close, reopen, reload.
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You should attack anything that's not an eye or a spear. She will counter only close-ranged attacks.
I recommend getting Death Zapper instead of this because it has the same rate and is AOE.
Although I don't know how useful it'd be on the stages in between.
And, what, if the monster has 95% resist, is it impossible to get more then 5% success rate no matter what? That was not the impression I was under.
That's how natural resistance works. Says the wiki. Elixir is one of the hardest blue magic to get in weekend just because of this.
If you care for your friend, you should stop that person right now.
It is not hard to use the Hakurei Multiplex Barrier method, once you get Reimu to level 90. (I'm sorry about the typos I made)
The 'save anywhere' trick cuts grinding time a lot. Took about 10 tries to do this. 3 times it hit Reimu instead of Satori.
I found another neat bug regarding sidequests.
First, let the quest boss symbol stand beside you, than let another random enemy engage in battle.
If you defeat the random enemy, then try to face the quest boss symbol immediately when you return to the overworld view,
you will get the quest clear message and the reward.
Somehow the next random enemy you encounter will be the quest boss, but you can just run away.
You can do this on every random enemy symbol to gain lots of material.
Of course, it's next to impossible on some quests such as Byakuren's, but very useful at Sakuya's or Sanae's, or maybe others.
And Sanae's Wind of Miracles spam is so strong it feels like cheating.
Cooldown -1 is just awesome, I say. It would have been more like cheating on Alice or Sakuya, though.
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So exactly what difference does range make, other than determining whether Komachi will counter with her scythe or not?
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Almost nothing. Some other counter attacks are affected by it, such as Blood Slimes.
It is marked as 'Melee' and 'Ranged' in the weapon trees.
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I personally could never land Control on the Super Hairball with the best IND I could manage+sexy underwear and super control spam times, so I have no idea if that's true.
The Super Hairball has ☆ resistance against Mind Control, as does the Phoenix. The Spirit Tortoise's resistance is only ◎.
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I know Phoenix will never use Raise Dead when Controlled, but I'm not sure about the Tortoise.
I think I might go and test that, actually...
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I know the Tortoise does not have Raise Dead on its control list. I am unsure if the Tortoise uses Raise Dead while charmed. The easiest method is probably multiplex barrier and hopefully Satori gets hit by Raise Dead.
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According to the Japanese wiki you can only learn raise dead from Super Hairball. The method mentioned is using reimu's barrier that has the decoy effect to direct the attack to satori.
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As I said, Raise Dead misfires when everyone is alive, and a dead Satori doesn't learn it in the first place. (It does sometimes use it when charmed, but nothing happens).
It misfires even when Satori herself uses it when everyone is alive. Satori will automatically target a dead ally when she uses it on a alive ally, or herself.
Multi-hit attacks check every hit for natural resistance, so if you want to boost the chance,
use Aeroknife+Power Down+Hyper Trigger+Multi-hit attacks or something like that. Or maybe not. I'm not sure how the 'breaking out' works with multi-hit attacks.
If you do want to try. I wasted the time for you. You can't learn it with Interruption or Control + Manual Control, because it automatically targets dead people.
And I'm an idiot for trying to learn Elixir from Elder Dragon. It doesn't have it in the Control list. It thankfully had Cosmic Liner, though.
Now I only have 7 moves left to teach Satori.
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So, are you saying that it is impossible to learn? Because the Super Hairball and Spirit Tortoise both know Raise Dead and I don't see how there is a difference between trying to learn from either of them.
I thought the idea was wait for the enemy to randomly use Raise Dead, and on that very same turn, use Phoenix Feather. Then Satori should learn it. At least that is the method mentioned in the wiki.
The other method mentioned was to use multiplex barrier.
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The wiki is wrong. Dead wrong.
I tried the Phoenix Feather method on the Spirit Tortoise before, with charm interruption(wasted another hour trying to do this),
and it has the same effect as when Satori was alive in the first place.
Raise Dead autotargets one of the dead people on the party, and Satori can't learn it if she's dead.
Not sure if the Hakurei Multiplex Barrier method works on the Phoenix or the Spirit Tortoise.
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But these methods would work on the Super Hairball? What is the difference may I ask? They both have Raise Dead.
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But these methods would work on the Super Hairball? What is the difference may I ask? They both have Raise Dead.
I'm not quite sure why exactly but the Japanese wiki is rather clear about it. 現在、スーパー毛玉以外からのラーニングは不可能 (Currently, except from super hairball, this move cannot be learned). The other monsters that use raise dead aren't even on the learning chart for it.
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Oh well, one less skill to learn! :D
On that note, I'm having trouble with the final boss.
I'm really thinking Sanae would make Phase 1/2 a lot easier, but these are my current teams:
Phase 1-oriented:
Marisa/Mokou/Aya/Satori/Reimu/Sakuya commander
Hinotori Skydance with Aya's blinktanking powers in the middle.
Phase 3-oriented:
Youmu/Patchouli/Alice/Sanae/Byakuren/Nitori commander
Konpaku-Style formation ;C
I don't need help with equipment or bombs, just the actual characters to use, maybe some move suggestions if you suspect I'm just using someone stupidly. Youmu's using her katana, and Mokou's using the Turtlesmasher, before you mention those :P
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I'm at the entrance of stage 17 but Satori is still only level 45. Is it worth it to level her to 50 so she can have a chance to pick up Holy/Flare from Genji? Or can I just level to 50 later and make do with Shadow Flare until stage 21?
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Oh well, one less skill to learn! :D
On that note, I'm having trouble with the final boss.
I'm really thinking Sanae would make Phase 1/2 a lot easier, but these are my current teams:
Phase 1-oriented:
Marisa/Mokou/Aya/Satori/Reimu/Sakuya commander
Hinotori Skydance with Aya's blinktanking powers in the middle.
Phase 3-oriented:
Youmu/Patchouli/Alice/Sanae/Byakuren/Nitori commander
Konpaku-Style formation ;C
I don't need help with equipment or bombs, just the actual characters to use, maybe some move suggestions if you suspect I'm just using someone stupidly. Youmu's using her katana, and Mokou's using the Turtlesmasher, before you mention those :P
Switch Satori and Sanae. You don't need party-wide buffs for the final phase-Byakuren buffing Youmu is all you should need-but you will want a healer; the fight may be over in a few turns, but a party-wide healer is essential to survive even that long (yes, even with Alice). The first phase is the better one for Sanae, especially when you take into account the fact that it lacks Alice; without Marionette Parrar, you'll want Sanae's buffs to aid in survival (the max-HP buff is particularly nice). And her offensive buffs help, too.
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I'm at the entrance of stage 17 but Satori is still only level 45. Is it worth it to level her to 50 so she can have a chance to pick up Holy/Flare from Genji? Or can I just level to 50 later and make do with Shadow Flare until stage 21?
Bah, satori is completely useless. Don't bother with teaching her attack spells because she will never do decent damage unless if she's EXTREMELY buffed. Even acala sword does wimpy damage against regular enemies (I have it). it's better if you just use her for area heal/mass heal and starlight barrier/reflect wall. And maybe sometimes as a debuffer (but Byakuren is still better for this task).
Anyway... guys, I'm trying to beat stage 24 boss and for some reason after I kill Abyss Demon and then only the 4 embodiments of hatred are left, my reimu's Fantasy Heaven and Hell only does 1 damage to each of them. WTF!? Seriously, what does explain that? I can't see any reason for it to do minimal damage since she was buffed and on level 80. And I have to kill the four damned things at once, otherwise they'll revive. Thus, I can't use physical attacks.
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Nevermind... it was just the land power. I merely used Patchouli to clean everything and Ta-Da~! /derp/
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Well, her damage isn't that bad when she can hit weakness, and she can hit a LOT of weaknesses, including some that not many other characters can hit. Demon Blast and Demon Collider, for example, are pretty good since those obligatory sword/axe/spear/staff monsters are everywhere, and they also do decently against those angels that show up too. Her light spells aren's as good (which is why I kind of wanted to learn Holy early), but they good enough to help dispatch the demons. Mad Thunder just melts anything weak to it and is generally decent against other neutral targets too. Also I think Enervate is going to be really helpful... once my level's high enough to pick up the skills.
Looking at the skill stats though, Holy and Flare aren't too much better than Destruction Beam, and I can learn Shadow Flare from other things, so I went ahead and defeated Genji/Matsuba at level 47.
By the way, does anyone know how she does with really high level attacks like Meteor/Comet/Meduora Beam (or whatever it's called)/Dark Giga Flare and stuff?
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I don't have those attacks, but I'd imagine it'd not be so different.
Medoroa might be the best out of those because it's like the only magical attack in the game that ignores MDEF. Although, Satori would still need to be properly buffed and with a powerful staff to be able to do good damage.
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I think trying to level everyone equally is making my party somewhat underlevelled; they're actually getting 150% exp across the board in stage 18 right now.
Should I go level up somewhere at some point?
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I'm at the entrance of stage 17 but Satori is still only level 45. Is it worth it to level her to 50 so she can have a chance to pick up Holy/Flare from Genji? Or can I just level to 50 later and make do with Shadow Flare until stage 21?
I recommend getting Holy from Genji, simply because it's a pain to get that spell before the expansion (since the only enemy that uses it is in stage 21). Shadow Flare is easy to get from the demons in stages 16/17, and Flare is a pain as well but I don't feel it's as important as Holy/Shadow Flare.
In your situation, I'd just carry Satori along with me for the walk through stage 17, then grind what else is needed before fighting the bosses.
Satori being weak
20 points in Learning, 13 in Third Eye and it should be hard to say that again. Her basic elemental spells should hit about as hard as Marisa's ones, she gets a wider selection of elements than Patchouli (hers are more economic and practical at least) and near the endgame she gets some fun stuff. All that in addition to her support roles. She's amazing.
I think trying to level everyone equally is making my party somewhat underlevelled; they're actually getting 150% exp across the board in stage 18 right now.
Should I go level up somewhere at some point?
That's actually a consequence of Weekend, they changed some stuff in the experience bonus table thing and thus you'll most likely get bonus EXP whenever you get to a new level. For example, my main party was in the early 60s after stage 20. Compare that to how levels in the previous version went and how most people would want to grind to at elast 60 before tackling the final boss.
Anyway, why would you grind anywhere else and miss out on all the delicious bonus experience?
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Satori's power really changes entirely depending on how you're trying to use her.
In expansion though, she undoubtedly falls behind in sheer damage, but she still has several worthy nuking skills and is definitely great for randoms with her many powerful status effects; she even gets Charm/Control on hit with her last two eyes, opening up her physicals. I love Death Zapper with one of her last two eyes on. (A dagger is considerable too for higher status infliction and some different status; or even stacking a Death Dagger on, or the MP Drain dagger for efficient skill spamming! Or the other mp drain dagger with silence... etcetcetc)
Her normal hit-a-weakness-for-damage skills kind of fall behind in ex because she doesn't get upgrades in most cases, so only her nukes stand up in sheer damage. (Medoroa, Mad Thunder, Punish the Judgment, Cosmic Liner, or dark skills for random enemies) She's got tons of other uses still <3
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20 points in Learning, 13 in Third Eye and it should be hard to say that again. Her basic elemental spells should hit about as hard as Marisa's ones, she gets a wider selection of elements than Patchouli (hers are more economic and practical at least) and near the endgame she gets some fun stuff. All that in addition to her support roles. She's amazing.
lol what? Did you hit your head? She still sucks, and I can prove it. I added discharge to her skill list which is at least a passable elec magical attack, then used it against the "Venom" enemy. (Those earth elementals from garden of sun whose are weak to elec) with the following equipment:
Bardiche (a staff that increases elec power by 20%)
Lightning Robe (an armor that also increases elec power by 20%)
Zeus Amulet (also gives 20% elec enhance)
Bracelet of Insight III
Wisdom Ring III
With her growth tree raised like this: 25 points in learning, 13 in third eye, 16 in staff, 10 in INT. So... despite all of that, she only gave a wimpy 2K damage to the enemy.
Then, I gave exactly the same equippment to Marisa with her growth tree raised as: 25 in magic, 20 in astronomy, 16 in staff, 10 in INT. Then I used stardust surge on the same enemy. Guess how much damage she did?
14K. (Yes that's right... over 10K damage)
Now how can you say she is able to hit as hard as Marisa? That's beyond unthinkable, she could only possibly reach this CLOSE with several and several buffs, but why would I bother buffing her to reach the same normal damage output as marisa when I can simply use Marisa instead? Seriously... no thanks. I have a better arsenal of magical attackers to select.
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lol what? Did you hit your head? She still sucks, and I can prove it. I added discharge to her skill list which is at least a passable elec magical attack
Discharge is terrible for damage. Absolutely terrible. Plasma Ball would hit harder - based on your numbers, it should do at LEAST 8k, in fact.
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Um, Discharge is one of her WEAKER skills. It does only 0.25x damage as plasma ball. Plasma Ball under the same condition would do 4x as much damage; it should do about 8-9k.
Also, it's not really fair to compare a skill Marisa gets at level 30 with a skill Satori can learn right off the bat, so replacing Stardust Surge with Stardust Missile would end up making it do 0.66x damage, or around 9.5-10k. The difference is pretty small.
That only matters early game though. Chances are, Satori will be able to pick up Mad Thunder shortly after Marisa learns Stardust Surge, so let's compare those. Each individual hit from Mad Thunder does 7/8x the damage as a plasma ball, and it also has inherent elemental strength+25% (which Plasma Ball lacks). On the earth elemental in question (which is 4x weak to electric), the damage per hit is about ~8.5k per hit, and mad thunder hits twice 1/3 of the time and thrice 2/3 of the time. The average damage here comes out to be about 22k damage or so.
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Ok so, I'm about to fight the Existence Hater. Any tips?
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And maybe sometimes as a debuffer (but Byakuren is still better for this task).
Satori's debuff is definitely stronger than Byakuren's. Enervation is stronger than Byakuren's attack debuff. Mad Thunder is Satori's strongest electric damage spell, why aren't you using that to compare?
However, if you do use Satori for pure damage, as everyone else mentions, it does fall behind. Her pure damage potential is mediocre, unless you get her super strong spells.
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Ok so, I'm about to fight the Existence Hater. Any tips?
\
Been a while since I last did that fight (shortly before I lost interest and abandoned that playthrough at the final stage. Yeah, I know. I don't intend to give up this time around), so I don't remember what my exact strategy was, but I do remember that my primary damage dealer ended up being Reisen (slayer abuse FTW). I think the others were Reimu/Satori for healing, I don't remember which (Satori's is stronger, but Reimu's heals statuses. I don't remember if the boss uses any but if it does, Reimu's probably the better choice), Sanae for buffing/resurrecting/backup healing, Byakuren for debuffing (and ATK buffing, since her single-targets are stronger than Sanae's multi-targets and this setup only has one attacker), and Alice for defence. I think that's who I used, though I don't really remember. I do remember clearly remember Reisen being the main damage dealer, though.
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The main body is immune to the 6 elements and weak to physical. So you'll need a physical-oriented team.
It has a front mouth that does support. It starts to use Elixir after 5 turns it was alive, so kill that first. It's weak to FIR and ETH and SLA
It also has another mouth that does some support attack, but if both mouths are dead, the main body will use Abyss Wind and revive both, so leave it alone.
The main body has 1500 PDEF, but has no natural resistance to variety and is also weak to DEF down.
Once you reach it to less than 33% HP, it will use a VOI fixed 999 damage on the whole party.
Ignores divine barriers, magic barriers(set chance to completely dodge magic), magic reflect, magic damage reduction, magic damage nullify, and reraise. How amazing.
You can still use Nitori's 3-bomb, or Super Duplex Barrier, or Starlight Barrier and the such.
Most simple way is to use Little Legion + Yata no Kagami.
Or you can kill the boss before it uses it.
As GuyYouMetOnline mentioned, using Reisen's special slayer is the best way.
I recommend Mokou too because you can kill the mouth with Fujiyama and Final Finger is less affected by PDEF.
I used Alice, Mokou, Reisen, Sanae, and Byakuren with Poison Shield for this fight.
And Mad Thunder actually does 3 hits 75% of the time. An exception when max-min=1.
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@Shastri: Satori is not only insanely adaptable and useful, particularly in boss fights, but she can deal extremely good damage. Mine picked up Medoroa in Stage 21 by chance, and with an Eye and only 3 points in Third Eye, she dealt more in one hit than anybody else on the team could manage, except when they were hitting weaknesses, even with dualcasting. Her utility and ability to deal decent damage with tiny/very reasonable MP costs on bosses and stronger enemies that require strategies means she can hit weaknesses often and repeatedly, and can also be brought into a defensive role when needed.
I haven't taken her off the team since she joined the party, and I can safely say her usefulness is very high, though it seems to dip a little in Stage 16-18 (the enemies are just generally annoying in those stages, though). Marisa may deal more damage than her, but she is a one-trick pony and has access to a limited movepool consisting of three elements and rather uninteresting effects.
Satori can be fitted to deal with mooks, to help bring down powerful minibosses or stronger mook formations, to support or to be an annoyance. Her statuses aren't half bad either.
EDIT: Thanks, GuyYouMetOnline, neople have been suggesting that, so I'll try it out :)
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Wouldn't 99 MP cost (75 after adustment?) makes it kind of not very helpful when exploring without permanent healing point access though?
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and I can safely say her usefulness is very high, though it seems to dip a little in Stage 16-18
Plenty of weaknesses in stage 16 to hit, along with the practically Satori-exclusive dark element. In Stage 17 it's highly effective to use a chaser strat with Satori/Patch and Satori can hurt the difficult Otohime with her dark weakness, and in 18 she's lovely in the third party with her high RES and to hit light/elec/fire weaknesses; especially so because MAD THUNDER is so awesome.
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Medoroa, Meteor, etc. those spells aren't very good. They are costly and don't do the damage that their mana costs.
EDIT: wow terrible typo, I meant AREN'T very good.
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Bardiche (a staff that increases elec power by 20%)
There's your problem. I actually tested this when going up against Taiwan - when she first wiped me, I tried to push as much Lightning as possible into my setup.
Turned out that wasn't a good idea. By the time you got to Taiwan, the Baridiche is sorely outdated. I had a Rod of Mannan at the time too, which wasn't Lightning elemental (it was Water).
Yes I had that lightning booster formation. No land mods because PATCHY DIED... =.=
With the Rod of Mannan, per hit with Mad Thunder does ~ 600+ on Taiwan.
With the Baridiche, per hit with Mad Thunder does ~ 400+ on Taiwan.
No, I'm not joking. 10 bloody difference in MATK (22 vs 12) caused this drastic reduction in damage. The Bardiche's +20% to ELE was *not even remotely enough to cover for the loss in MATK*.
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Does the Bardiche increase all lightning damage? Because if it says something like 'add damage: ele 20%' or whatever the actual phrasing is, that just means regular attacks do 20% extra lightning damage (and maybe physical skills, too; I'm not actually sure on that). It doesn't apply to magic.
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I didn't have Mad Thunder :C
But by dipped slightly I meant she didn't walk all over everything QUITE as much (she's been my MVP for most parts of the game), though Stage 16 was generally just a bit annoying and mean.
17 was fine aside from the Otohime and the crabs, and she was useful there, and I had Satori in party three but had to juggle a little for a learn skill, IIRC.
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Bardiche's description says 雷属性強化：20% in Japanese version, which means that it enhances electric attribute. Weapons that add additional damage in an element looks more something like 雷の追加ダメージ：20%.
Anyways, I took Patchy to stage 8 and tried to fight some sunflowers using only Call Thunder. With Bardiche, the damage numbers were 362 308 333 405 309. I then equipped her with an Eraser Engine (the most powerful staff I have at the moment) and the damage numbers become 318 306 288 309 333 292. The electric enhance definitely is working and working well.
On a side note, Mad Thunder is seriously powerful stuff. On Anatasis Satori with nothing but a Bracelet of Insight II and a Philosopher's Cane (I was planning on having her to heal until Byakuren's done buffing and can take over) was easily outdamaging Patchy with a Bardiche, except when the latter rolls two hits, in addition to her ability to heal and Starlight Barrier for Muscle Revolution. Kind of wish she had such powerful and cost efficient attacks in other elements except dark... oh well.
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Well guys... sorry about that, I don't have Mad Thunder's and didn't know the damage output was so much more powerful than that lame discharge. (To be honest, I thought the former would simply be the equivalent of 3 consecutive attacks of the latter).
Hence why I didn't use Mad Thunder to compare. Didn't bother learning it from Iku since I thought it'd be just another electric skill... and well, things are going to be hard for me now because I've only seen a stupid zera beetle once or maybe twice during my very first battles on stage 21. After that, they never ever appeared for me again... and I have used that place to grind and farm for power points several, several times. Which also gives me the impression their probability encounter rate decreases each time you see em.
-EDIT-
By the way, is there not an enemy that has 100% chance of dropping adamantite and orichalcum shards? I mean, there are enemies with 100% elemental shards drop chance (Princess Undine, Princess Sylph, Royal Earth and Elder Salamander) So... I was just wondering.
I know it's kind of easy to beat Princess Hydra and God Eater for orichalcum and adamantite respectively, but the problem is that those quests won't appear that often... is there not a trick to make them show more frequently?
-EDIT 2.0-
Uhhh... how to dispel hina's physical reflecting barrier? (the one that reimu and marisa can't penetrate)
Touhou wiki says Sanae can do it, but I just don't know how.
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Uhhh... how to dispel hina's physical reflecting barrier? (the one that reimu and marisa can't penetrate)
Touhou wiki says Sanae can do it, but I just don't know how.
Both Reimu and Marisa have reflect ignoring spells and they have a tree that allows them to ignore reflect, so I don't understand why you are failing to penetrate her reflect.
In either case, she's the one you should be putting Cirno in your group.
No, I'm not joking. 10 bloody difference in MATK (22 vs 12) caused this drastic reduction in damage. The Bardiche's +20% to ELE was *not even remotely enough to cover for the loss in MATK*.
10 MATK difference is HUGE on a weapon. MATK is affected by int, the higher the number the larger overall MATK change you will see as your INT goes up. This means that the "10 MATK" you see is actually something like 40 MATK on your numbers or something.
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Both Reimu and Marisa have reflect ignoring spells and they have a tree that allows them to ignore reflect, so I don't understand why you are failing to penetrate her reflect.
In either case, she's the one you should be putting Cirno in your group.
Nevermind... I just defeated her. The spell I was looking for was Miracle of Dispel. (Didn't know that Hina's barriers were classified as variety effects). Well, that along with the anti-reflect spells made the battle really easy, in fact... even easier than Abyss Demon.
Now just 2 more stages to go.
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I seem to have found a glitch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T5Ulgyg580&feature=plcp
It lets you receive quest items without having to fight the quest enemy.
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In either case, she's the one you should be putting Cirno in your group
whaaaaa?
Is she weak to the Freeze status or something...? o_O
I suppose Cirno could reflect stuff, but considering only on herself, is that really of much use? If you wanted reflect, Satori seems like a better choice... reflect wall isn't very hard to learn.
Anyway, if you feel like, Reisen and Satori (if you have Sweeping) can do physical dispels as well, for the other barrier. But it's generally not important. If you wanted, I've heard Vortex can dispel her final one... but I'm not sure about this at all. If it can, you could probably dispel it with a reflected dispel as well. But... also not really important, as there's easier things to do.
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Cirno's reflect is not like Satori's. It doesn't have that insane cool down. I believe you can set it up so that Cirno can have perpetual reflect status, which means Hina's counter will get her killed.
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Both Reimu and Marisa have reflect ignoring spells and they have a tree that allows them to ignore reflect, so I don't understand why you are failing to penetrate her reflect.
Those are magic attacks. Shastri was asking about dispelling the barrier that reflects physical attacks and makes her immune to magic. And reflect penetration only penetrates reflect, not immunity. So if you're using Reimu and Marisa for offense, you'll want to get rid of that barrier. And yes, Miracle of Dispel is the ability I was referring to (I'm the one who initially wrote the page for stage 25, though someone else added the chest locations). Maybe I should add that for clarity.
Also, Reimu can take Hina's final phase out in one hit with a strong enough spellcard, a MAG buff, and a high light land level.
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Oh, that barrier? I just wait it out. Or if you think your Satori is badass enough, use Breath attacks on her.
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Cirno's reflect is not like Satori's. It doesn't have that insane cool down. I believe you can set it up so that Cirno can have perpetual reflect status, which means Hina's counter will get her killed.
uh
you mean Satori's unlearnable move Reflection? :V
Because Reflect Wall, that targets everyone, has a cooldown of one with the appropriate POW trees that you can definitely afford by then.
Also, Cirno still has to have one or two turns without reflect up. (With Satori though, you could get closer to infinite, I suppose)
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I was able to beat Existence Hater. My god Mokou was hitting 11,780 every Fujiwara Volcano and Sakuya was doing 20,000 damage when she had Sakuya's World buff on. At the end I used Private Square but, I didn't see how much MP Sakuya had so, she could only hit with her regular attack. I got Mokou's last word two times throughout the fight which really helped.
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uh
you mean Satori's unlearnable move Reflection?
Because Reflect Wall, that targets everyone, has a cooldown of one with the appropriate POW trees that you can definitely afford by then.
Also, Cirno still has to have one or two turns without reflect up. (With Satori though, you could get closer to infinite, I suppose)
Satori's Reflect Wall doesn't hit 0 cool down. I believe her cool down minimum is 1.
Hmmm, I just tested it, Cirno's reflect lasts 3 turns and has a 4 turn cool down. So, there is a 2 turn delay in between casts. This is weird, I remember it lasting longer, like 4 to 5 turns, with enough IND.
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Where do I get Punish the Judgement? I'm at the last dungeon of the Expansion.
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Argh... I'm nearly giving up on trying to beat this damn Existence Hater. Even with meltdown, weapon bless and wind of miracles my Mokou is only dealing a pathetic 7~8K damage to him. and she has kusanagi equipped! While sakuya is only dealing 3~4K on each hit of her Full Moon Revenge. Not to mention that they're on level 75/73 respectively.
My strategy was first using Sanae to buff everyone's HP with Star Ritual Godly Winds then using Miracle of Otensui to full everyone. After that, I used Sakuya's Colosseo World to negate the boss' healing. The rest was just basic stuff such as spamming Fujiyama Volcano, using Bykauren for buffs and debuffs, alice for little legion + parrar... etc.
My equippment was:
Mokou:
Kusanagi / Composite Shield / A.Muscle Suit / Awakened Soul / Strength Ring IV / Hades Amulet
Sakuya:
Durandal / Eirik Shield / Guardian Deity Armor / Rage Choker V / Rage Choker IV / Echo Amulet
Byakuren:
Archar's Scroll / Golden Turtle Shell / Bodhisattva Robe / Squall Hairpin IV / Launch Earrings IV / Moonlight Ring
Alice:
Rainbow Greaves / Perseus' Shield / Armor of Creation / Yasakani no Magatama / Yata No Kagami / Bracelet of Reflection IV
Sanae:
Lunatic Morian / Large Dakimura / Philosopher's Robe / High Ribbon / Launch Earrings V / Cute Soul
(Youmu as commander to halve resistance for meltdown)
Despite all of that, during one of my attempts against him I got really pissed off because colosseo world's effect wore off in the middle of the heat without me noticing, and right on the same turn the bitch used elixir and restored himself completely.
As if it wasn't enough, on another of my attempts I managed to take enough of the boss' HP in order to cast Tsunami of Hades, but it got me suddenly while I was completely unprepared, so my whole party died in one hit without Alice having the chance to protect.
Seriously... this isn't fun, and the strategy/equippment I'm using apparently isn't good enough. Any good recommendations?
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Why are you using Mokou as a primary damager dealer? She is not a good choice. If you can land lots of debuffs on Existence Hater, use Reisen. If not, use Youmu or Yuugi for damage.
In either case, I did not use anti healing against Existence hater, I just kill him normally.
Also, whoever is carry the Yata no Kagami WILL survive the ultimate. The Yata no Kagami has a hidden Star resistance vs Void. I did not have any trouble against it, because I was doing some farming on other stuff. My party was 90 to 99 at the time I think.
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Kill the mouth that uses Elixir, and let the other live. Or Berserk them, which Reisen can take care of. If you're debuffing it, Reisen is definitely a great strat for awesome special slayer damage (It stacks with multiple debuffs). Definitely bring the Yata no Kagami on Alice, and once it reaches low health, start making sure to alternate London Doll on Sanae, and Little Legion. If Sanae makes it she can still use Source of Rains to full hp revive the party.
Also, Miracle of Otensui to full heal? That's kind of overkill :V Sanae's normal healing spellcards are plenty powerful with the healing tree maxed, and she just got a new one at lv65. If you were abusing Wind of Miracles stacking with the hp buff for insane hp increase I suppose, though...
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Well guys... in this case I'll have to grind my yuugi all the way until level 85 (she is still on 74) because she sucks without knockout in three steps.
I shall replace mokou with yuugi and sanae with reisen. I think Byakuren alone can take care of the healing, and sakuya will be kept because even though she gives crappy damage, if I take at least 3K with each hit of Full Moon Revenge then the total damage will be around 27K on 3 turns private square.
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A 100 IND Yuugi will have 3 turns of Berserker Soul.
If a 100 IND Byakuren with Good Variety +40% uses Hyper Trigger, Yuugi gets +126 IND.
If you set up the MP so that Yuugi can use Berserker Soul twice, she should do amazing damage even without Knockout in Three Steps.
Is what I'd like to say, but Knockout in Three Steps is definitely stronger. Especially against high PDEF enemies.
Anyways, how does everyone use Lithos on normal battles? I find her a bit hard to use compared to other characters.
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Yeah, I find Lithos to be hard to use too. She doesn't excel in magic or physical damage, but she is my goto tank if I need one though. Her defenses are unmatched by the other characters. Poison Doll formation is pretty good with her. I think one of the dual element weapons may be better than her final tier weapon.
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Where do I get Punish the Judgement? I'm at the last dungeon of the Expansion.
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Where do I get Punish the Judgement? I'm at the last dungeon of the Expansion.
1 33% パニッシュ・ザ・ジャッジメント
Punish the Judgment 404 Seraphim (Depths of Resentment)
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Seraphim appears in area K.
Species is Foreign God, 90000 HP, weak to Dark.
It will use Punish the Judgment when LGT Land is pushed to the max, and will usually kill a lot of people.
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Lithos in random battles? Petrification on her orichalcon weapon is nice. Stone Shower is also nice.
Otherwise, you have to kind of spam bombs with her (Pegasus Meteor or a Last Spell). However, with lots of bomb and/or mp bonus accessories on, pairing her up with Aya to abuse Aging Drizzle does work out fairly well... as long as you don't have to go too far or don't mind having to run back to a healing circle a lot.
A magic build to use Energy Riot/Andromeda Neblua and Minus/Blaster kind of works, but it's a little iffy.
She's easier in bosses. Rainbow Wings+Elemental Enchant+Pegasus meteor. And/or abusing whichever applicable status/fixed damage cards.
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Youmu's combined stance is so what.
It is affected by all three stance bonuses. Which means that it will go on for +18 turns and have a +120% bonus when all three stance trees are maxed.
I tried to heal my best, but even Miracle of Otensui and Hakurei Healing Barrier heals only 99999.
I made Youmu reach about 500000HP only with the stance, and she had a bit more than half HP.
I will try again after I get Satori's Elixir.
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Wait, what? The Conjoined stance gets bonuses from the other stances? Does this means Youmu gets accuracy, attack up, critical hit up, defense up, and evade up? Or do you mean that she just gets more HP from the stance bonuses, because that's what the conjoined stance provides?
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Should have been more clear about it.
It is affected by all stance bonuses you get from the skill trees.
Youmu almost jumps to twice her HP with the right conditions.
I haven't experimented how the HP stacks with the Star Ritual.
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That's good to know. I generally do already have points in those trees, so my Youmu has a bunch of HP when I use Conjoin stance. The boost is far stronger than what Sanae can do.
ADDED: I forgot to mention something neat I found out. On Youmu's half ghost tree, there is a buff that adds +1 to resistance of the weapon she is using. If she is using a dual element weapon, like Dual Blade(Fire/Water bonus damage). She will get +1 resistance to Slash, Fire, and Water.
I believe if she uses Heavenly Halo Slash, she will probably drop the enemy's resistance to Slash, Fire, and Water, but I have not tried this, so I am unsure if that is how it works.
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What party should I use for stage 21's map E?Two-headed dragon's stats scare me.
Edit: Never mind. @wiki has a recommendation so I'll go with that.
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Why are you using Mokou as a primary damager dealer? She is not a good choice.
Mokou is great against the Existence Hater if you have one of the last three fists, since Final Finger just rips the thing in half. It didn't even last long enough to use its super attack when I fought it a while back.
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I seem to have found a glitch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T5Ulgyg580&feature=plcp
It lets you receive quest items without having to fight the quest enemy.
I would like to elaborate a bit more on this. Apparently, if you execute this glitch and then fight the quest monster again (with a proper party if applicable) will allow you finish the quest TWICE, thus giving you two copies of the reward(s). Pretty useful.
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Going by that video, it looks like you can just repeat the glitch over and over until there aren't any more enemies left on the map.
Useful.
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Going by that video, it looks like you can just repeat the glitch over and over until there aren't any more enemies left on the map.
Useful.
I will test that out.
EDIT: Yes, it does work. Since you will always encounter the quest boss on the next encounter, you have to run away, then do the same trick again.
Very helpful for orihalcon/adamantium shards, I'd imagine.
Oh yeah, and this can allow you to skip character quests too if you'd like. You can just run from the battle afterwards. You do miss out on exp and bestiary entries though. (I pulled it off accidentally and promptly have Sakuya snipe out Sanae on turn 1 on the actual battle. I wasn't very happy about that.)
EDIT2: Actually you don't even have to run from the quest boss. If your timing is good, you can let another random encounter wander up to you right afterwards, defeat the quest boss(es) (which you won't get credit for since apparently the game uses enemy icon to determine that), turn around and get the reward again, then go find another random encounter and repeat for even more materials. The fairy icon will despawn when you leave the map though, so you can only do this for as long as you actually have the resources to beat the boss in question. This can be very handy for repeatedly killing kedamas or fairies in lithos/cirno's quests for common materials, though. (Lithos with some good gear setup can literally just normal attack and stall until last word).
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Eh, I'll probably just stick to using it for material grinding.
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How exactly does straw doll kamikaze work?
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Straw Doll's attack power scales off of Alice's HP. The attack power is modified by Max HP/2+100 , and the scaling/amplification is altered by current HP/Max HP. Base attack power is 200, base scaling is 101. Seems like you could get it to be quite potent.
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The backup save trick for some reason stopped working for me all of a sudden. Wonder why.
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Any tips for encountering Zera Beetles? I feel like I'm going to die before I get their drop. Or even manage to kill a second one. I just accidentally ran from one and oh my god.
I already have like half of the stage 21 miniboss drops and all the normal enemy drops except Plasma Knife, I mean, I've only found 2 by now... :T Kind of worrying for my 100%-completion goal run.
In other news, I think I'm going to be able to beat the Lunatic-mode goddesses before reaching expansion >_>; My last two characters who aren't at 80 yet are about to hit it, and I already have several at 85.
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The backup save trick for some reason stopped working for me all of a sudden. Wonder why.
It happens when you were wiped out. Go back to Hakurei Shrine to step on the magic circle to fix it.
Or to be more sure, just turn off the game after you stepped on the magic circle and restart the .exe
Any tips for encountering Zera Beetles? I feel like I'm going to die before I get their drop. Or even manage to kill a second one. I just accidentally ran from one and oh my god.
Zera Beetles. They have a small chance to appear with set enemy formations. Very small.
You find a suitable formation, do the 'Save Anywhere' trick, and reset until you get one.
???-B
Queen Flayer + Machine Dragon
Ibaraki Douji + Arastole
Abyss Worm + Golden Baum
???-C
Dryad Queen + Ibaraki Douji
Death Rider + Machine Dragon
Sphinx + Machine Dragon
???-D
Machine Dragon * 2
Cherubim + Dryad Queen
Lesser Dragon + Death Rider
???-E
Cherubim + Machine Dragon
Lesser Dragon + Queen Flayer
Death Rider + Sphinx
???-F
Lesser Dragon * 2
Cherubim + Garugarin + Machine Dragon
Cherubim * 2 + Garugarin * 2
Spellings are a bit off. Pulled off from Japanese wiki.
EDIT : Sorry about those smileys.
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From what I noticed, I only faced Zera Beattles in specific sections of the 4 to 5 part map of the final area of the main game. I think I see them only in the portal to the north east.
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From what I noticed, I only faced Zera Beattles in specific sections of the 4 to 5 part map of the final area of the main game. I think I see them only in the portal to the north east.
I encountered one there (still no drop, unfortunately), but I have also found them in the map north from the entrance, as well as the slightly-less-northeast one. So... it's just that their encounter rate is super duper low.
Just need Bodhi Tree and Capricorn drops before the only ones left are the semifinal map's Lightning Baron and scary 2-Head Dragon! ...and Zera Beetles :T I've also managed to collect all but four of the supermaterial drops. (Zera Beetle, those last two I haven't fought the Baron and Dragon, and Aya's. Not that I need them much either, but it's nice to have for later! <3) ...although, amusingly, I got like 5 drops of these from -random enemies- XD
Party level average is... 84 or 85ish, at this point.
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There's also Crom Cruach or whatever. That thing is tough. BTW, Zera Beetle is one of the final random enemies you face in Romancing Saga 3, which some of this game's mechanic is based on.
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Crom Cramugh is pretty easy if you set up for it, especially since it mostly just uses instant death; Shinigami formation and Sanae's res buff, and that's most of the danger gone already. Didn't hurt that Mokou+Byakuren=Super facepunching destruction with 10k+ damage hits, so I actually kind of speedkilled it without Alice or Sanae a lot while more focusing on Yukkuri Kings; although it was a bit risky to do it like that, got wiped some.
And it is? I see. I never really finished RS3, but it definitely has a lot of stuff based on it, which I think is cool. Maelstrom is practically ripped from it, as well; it looks and functions pretty much the exact same.
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That thing has pain reversal or something, whatever that skill is called. It will pretty much kill whoever he hits, unless you have unbelievable dark resistance in addition to magic damage reduction. Or it uses it when it has fairly high health.
It normally isn't too much of a problem for my expansion team, but it caught me by surprise when I was farming the rest of the items there. I am still looking for Claimoh Soliahs, Abyss Armor, and Drake Scales. I don't even know why I haven't gotten a drake scale yet. I've killed more than my fair share of lesser dragons.
I think you see Zera Beetles once your weapon skill reaches rank 40 or something really high. It should be about the same time you can see the rest of the end game random enemies. You normally beat the final boss before then though. Those enemies are about as tough if not tougher than the final bosses.
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So how exactly do I use miracle wind? Apparently I need to cast buff first then spam Miracle Wind as fast as possible, but eventually buffs wear off and then they seem to go back to original level when I try to stick them back on.
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I took a break from stage 21 grinding for two days (after having gotten like 20~30 hours done in a couple days >_>;; I got into a groove...!) and then I come back today... I got a Trapezohedron drop within the first couple of minutes, and then in two consecutive battles soon after I got Aya's supermaterial drop from the random enemy Alastor (lightning guy), meaning I only have the 3 materials missing of the minibosses I don't have the equipment drop from yet... and then I get THE ZERA BEETLE'S SHIELD DROP.
Oh hell yes I'm so glad I took a break. This is what it got me. Right off the bat. Such a relief... Zera Beetle's drop was seriously risky of becoming ultra-evil to obtain. Now I just need Capricorn (goat mermaid) and then I can move onto the Lightning Baron/2-Head Dragon section. Not that the two-head dragon doesn't sound kind of intimidating himself... plus the random battles in that area are HARD to run from. It'll be a doozy.
Medoroa is a godsend in stage 21, by the way. Use Spell Enhance on Satori and then she pops out 9k+ damage on -anything- (Unless there are divine barrier/exorcism issues), right there. It's pretty expensive, but in stage 21, that's not a big issue! I look forward to making the -50% mp cost staff in expansion... 24 mp cost Medoroa, oh maaaaan.
Edit:Aaaand Capricorn down...
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Does -mp cost stuff work like that? IIRC Mad Thunder costs 13MP with 20+ in learning and an Eraser Engine (15% MP cost reduction), which fits 20 * 75% * 85% more than it fits 20% * 60%.
If that's correct then Medoroa will be ~37MP instead.
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Well, I haven't posted in a while, but guys... I've managed to beat the Existence Hater. It was quite easy once I got my yuugi to level 85, so I just equipped her with awakened soul + cute soul + strength ring IV and spammed Knockout in three steps. It was enough to tear that thing apart. Surprisingly enough, my party ended up being byakuren/alice/marisa/mokou/yuugi. Although, pretty much only Byakuren and my awesome oni girl made the difference on that fight. The former being there for buffing/berserking the heads while the latter for primary damage dealer.
Although, I still have the final boss to defeat and a couple sidequest super bosses as well. (Spirit world challenger and the one that drops Obsidian). But anyway... seriously, I HATED expansion mode... the plot from it sucks, (if that could even be called a plot, when there's pretty much none). Most of the bosses there won't even change dialogue with you, they have no backstory... nothing... they're just, uhh... there. And the majority of the new enemies are merely palette swaps of already previously seen enemies, and some of the priorly unique enemies even stopped being unique because of them. (Did I mention that I HATE palette swaps, especially on RPG's? That kind of thing wasn't even supposed to exist anymore, I think this poor strategy to add new enemies was often used in the past only due to the primitive consoles' limitations). And to make things worse, even the new stages' scenarios are simply recycled from main game mode (Such as garden of sun or Muenzuka). Not to mention 2 of the five new characters you get are completely useless, those being Reisen and Cirno. Well, I know you guys are going to say Reisen is useful, but it demands a lot of effort to make her able to deal decent damage, and since a lot of bosses are resistant to variety/permanent effects, then things get hard for her part. Cirno on other hand is just... uhhh... good for reflecting and stuff. But I never bring her to boss fights while pretty much all of the other characters are so much better. (Seriously, the creators could have put Biotopos and Anastasis on the place of those two characters).
Before reaching the final boss, I was at least hoping for it to have a decent backstory, a solid purpose to cause this incident and stuff... but no. It was just a mindless raging beast only driven by hatred and wrath. That was just so lame... and from my perspective, the intention of the creators with this mode was just adding some more challenge to the game while taking it easy brainlessly. I know it's just an expansion, but still, they could have put some more love on it. Main game mode was excellent for me and I loved each moment, but I must say I was expecting far, FAR more from the expansion... and contrary to my expectations, the only thing I got was a big disappointment. At least I only hope the creators won't repeat the same mistake again in case they develop an expansion mode for DoD (which is quite likely).
Oh well... even though I'm rather unmotivated, I will still tackle this final boss because I just won't let all of my progress go waste. So... do you guys have any recommendations or something? From what I have read on touhou wiki, said boss doesn't sound completely impossible to beat... but some more tips are always welcome.
Also, how can I unlock the synthesis for "Yukkuri Knighthood" ? I still don't have it, and I wanna upgrade my Yukkuri Crown.
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There is an expansion to DoD. It's not as bad as this game's one. It's not too awesome either, though.
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Not to mention 2 of the five new characters you get are completely useless, those being Reisen and Cirno.
There are very few enemies in which Reisen is useless against, I guess Yukkuri's make Reisen kind of useless. I hope you understand that Reisen's special slayer triggers on both positive and negative effects. Each instance is an extra 100% boost or something like that. If you can land just 2 status effects, something like Toxic + any stat down or if they have a stat up, you should be outdamaging everyone else.
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Cirno has some useful viabilities, but I can't argue against that she's just... not that great, yeah.
Reisen is super awesome though. As Starxsword said, her special slayer stacks with multiple varieties. She can hit 99999 the easiest out of all the characters in the game, and easily hits super high numbers against basically any enemy that you can land varieties on without much trouble (Which does, indeed, include most of the expansion bosses.) She can mesh well with a random battle party too with her many slayers in POW tree, and especially if you're using, say, Satori for inflicting status effects.
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Also, how can I unlock the synthesis for "Yukkuri Knighthood" ? I still don't have it, and I wanna upgrade my Yukkuri Crown.
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15000 kills.
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I've been looking through the CSVs for the game in the hopes of making a tool that can fill out the bestiary for the wiki. The wiki's bestiary section is missing a huge number of monsters, a lot of the data is out of date with respect to Weekend and the English patch, and what monsters are filled out are missing a number of useful stats.
http://www.mediafire.com/?1wk4pec746eksu2
This is the CSVs I have, a text file with some of my notes on trying to decode the mess, and a python script that can load the CSVs into an SQLite database. The goal is to use the database to join the related CSVs together to be able to get everything relevant to the GoS monsters: in addition to all that is on the wiki now, I would especially like to see status resistance and which maps a monster can appear on. I think that going all out with be too much data for the wiki, but at the very least it could be populated with the important fields, and anyone that wants to know everything can query the database themselves.
Running the script will require Python 2.x and pysqlite 3. Unzip everything into a folder and start a Python shell session in there. Import the script, then do "script.init()' to load the database from the CSVs. You can then do 'script.run("sql")' to run arbitrary SQL on the database tables.
Unfortunately, the CSVs are exceedingly complex. There's a huge number of fields in each; mroutine is the worst offender, with just under 600 columns. I've managed to decode a lot of the important fields and should be able to recreate all of the data on the wiki now (with the exception of enemy skill data; right now I only get the name), but the extra bits are a mystery now. Status resistances and extra abilities are completely untouched, and it's hard to make progress since everything is hidden ingame.
This is very much a work in progress, and any help would be greatly appreciated. The biggest issue is decoding the remaining CSVs to find any useful information, and anyone with an abundance of time on their hands could help with that. People with Python or SQL experience could help out with the script, but I should be able to handle that myself. Anyone really good with wiki templates and tables could work on something to store the extra data I'm trying to extract, e.g. possibly with collapsible sections.
As a final note, it's possible that this tool will work with DoD as well, since the engines are so similar now. I haven't tried this yet, however. It would be nice, since DoD's bestiary is entirely missing right now.
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After some breaks, finally at Level 21. Now I am grinding for drops and getting caught up in levels.
So far I have only gotten 3 Patch, 1 Youmu, and 1 Sanae rare materials. What weapons/armor are worth crafting? I have crafted the Kusanagi which ate up an Adamantite and an Orcalchum so I only have two of each left.
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You can always farm up some gold and turn them into megatami and kagami. No real need to turn them into weapon.
Otherwise... for weapon, I think Byakuren wins hands down. You can't beat divine barrier 35. For actual damage Nitori's shade 2010 is best in a vacuum, but if you're looking for help to beat the final boss, you probably want to craft the weapon for whoever you're using to attack on the first form (the second form you're almost definitely going to want to use Youmu with Doujigiri anyways), or maybe Patchy's Necronomicon (although it's a pretty crappy weapon outside of those weak to light/dark bosses, or when you need magic exorcism and don't have the Grail/wants to give it to someone else).
For armor, Byakuren and Nitori's are probably best for them because of magic boundary/perfect dodge. Byakuren's has better status immunity but Nitori's has +chaser damage. Sanae's armor is pretty good too for the immunities. but not so much in the final battle (I don't think the final boss uses any instant death attacks that doesn't kill you outright anyways). Satori and Alice's are pretty good for their stats (IND and MDEF/RES respectively). Otherwise, whoever you think needs more bombs I guess.
Edit to avoid double post: Existence Hater is hilariously easy with Supercosmic Cluster. Also Psycho Blast is funny - I accidentally killed both parts and Existence Hater's Abyss Wind ended up doing 0*5 damage to Alice. And for some reason, Tsunami of Hades only did 119 * 5 to Alice (I had Kagami/Magatama/Sun Curtain III equipped on her, but I don't think it's the Sun Curtain that did it).
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Either the Kagami or Magatama (whichever is magic) has hidden star resist to void, so that's why the damage was minimal.
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Yeah, the Yata no Kagami gives a hidden star resistance vs Void.
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Hmm. Even then, shouldn't the damage be 124 instead of 119?
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I've been looking through the CSVs for the game in the hopes of making a tool that can fill out the bestiary for the wiki. The wiki's bestiary section is missing a huge number of monsters, a lot of the data is out of date with respect to Weekend and the English patch, and what monsters are filled out are missing a number of useful stats.
http://www.mediafire.com/?1wk4pec746eksu2
This is the CSVs I have, a text file with some of my notes on trying to decode the mess, and a python script that can load the CSVs into an SQLite database. The goal is to use the database to join the related CSVs together to be able to get everything relevant to the GoS monsters: in addition to all that is on the wiki now, I would especially like to see status resistance and which maps a monster can appear on. I think that going all out with be too much data for the wiki, but at the very least it could be populated with the important fields, and anyone that wants to know everything can query the database themselves.
I've already written something similar, except SQL is overkill and it isn't fit for public consumption. Unfortunately I don't have any tables that were updated for Weekend, but when I have a little more free time I can update the wiki version to include some of the features I already have in the HTML bestiary (mainly enemy status resists).
You can download the plain HTML version here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1565165/GoS/bestiary.zip), the data is kinda old (2.02, IIRC).
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I've already written something similar, except SQL is overkill and it isn't fit for public consumption. Unfortunately I don't have any tables that were updated for Weekend, but when I have a little more free time I can update the wiki version to include some of the features I already have in the HTML bestiary (mainly enemy status resists).
You can download the plain HTML version here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1565165/GoS/bestiary.zip), the data is kinda old (2.02, IIRC).
Do you have notes you're willing to share? Part of why I'm doing this is that I'm after information that isn't on the wiki. You have the status resists, but I'd also like to see formation info. This stems from me hunting for the greater mystic enhance accessory for Marisa; dropped by Mass Production Mech Dragon. I thought that was a Stage 21 enemy, so I wasted half an hour hunting for one there when I should have been looking in stage 20. If I had all the formation and map info I could map out exactly where a specific monster can be located.
I think that'd also help for the quests; the wiki article for Remilia's quest explicitly mentions that it's an easy one because "there are only two spawn locations for the quest boss." None of the character/material quests say where exactly they can be found, and hunting for that fairy icon was what made me especially hate doing those quests.
SQL probably is overkill, but I don't like CSVs and figured that the data would work better in a proper database, which would also let me do joins and where's. Now that I've actually seen how big the CSVs are, this was probably a mistake, but I don't think it'll actually hurt anything.
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Notes are far from exhaustive and mostly explorative, some not holding more than columns in OO to the column in the CSV (J for the id field in Monster.csv). I never figured out where enemies would spawn, but the AQ column in Monster.csv lists the location as it would appear in the bestiary (Dark Space for the Mass Production Dragon God (its name as of that version)).
mroutine.csv - sk10-29 refer to an id in item.csv (which contains spell data in addition to items). the 'eq' field is for the weapon the monster has equipped, shd for the shield.
item.csv - Since you're interested in enemy skills, lng is for the learning chance and lnglv is the minimum level to learn the skill.
Monster.csv - You mentioned status resists, that should be the edu column. That references an id in edu.csv. In edu.csv the fields to note are m1-20 and catl1-20. m1-20 are for the resist level (same as damage resists), catl1-20 refer to an id catl.csv (the "catl" column there is the name of the status).
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Monster.csv - You mentioned status resists, that should be the edu column. That references an id in edu.csv. In edu.csv the fields to note are m1-20 and catl1-20. m1-20 are for the resist level (same as damage resists), catl1-20 refer to an id catl.csv (the "catl" column there is the name of the status).
Aha, so that's how it works. Thanks, just that alone saves me a big headache.
For mroutine, do you know what the ctrl<x> fields do? It's definitely related to controlling monsters; -1 = skill not available in control list, 1 = skill available. But there's also a value of 2. The best I can think of is "This skill will be used when charmed/control interrupted"; it definitely doesn't appear in the control list from my testing.
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It may be related to Satori's commander 3bomb, which selects a skill an enemy has and uses it.
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I don't suppose anyone here knows how I can convince GoS to not use bilinear filtering when I run the game on anything larger than 1x size? Many of the screenshots that I have seen (in these threads and elsewhere) show enlarged resolution, but still crisp pixel boundaries, however nothing that I do with the video settings on my copy seems to produce this. I find the blurring that bilinear filtering produces in pixel art to be quite off-putting, but 1x size is also uncomfortably tiny on my monitor. If anyone knows a workaround to this, I'd greatly appreciate it.
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I've noticed that my subquest board is rotating between distinct selections of quests to offer, namely something like this:
Sakuya/Super Aja Only
Mokou/Diamond/Ori/Devil
Lithos/Super Aja only
Remilia/Diamond/Ori/Devil
Marisa/Super Aja only
Sakuya/Gold/Emerald/Obsidian/Addy
Mokou/Gold/Emerald/Obsidian/Addy
Lithos/Diamond/Ori/Devil
Remilia/Super Aja only
Marisa/Gold/Emerald/Obsidian/Addy
Is this sequence the same for every file, or is a new sequence randomly generated for all of them?
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It's probably the same always.
I know that by always taking Grindflayer emerald quest, I never really got obsidians or adamantites, since they always appeared together, and that grindflayers sometimes appeared twice in a row.
Anyway, since I'm posting; been streaming attempts at the Lunatic mode goddess final boss end phase (Without reaching expansion first), after a few tweaks to my setup I'm pretty sure I can do it. The only issue now is stray casts of Minus/Maenads killing someone in the back row, even though I generally have Hourai Doll up and am using Poison Shield. Technically, I can shift Mokou to be a commander in this phase to have it realllly reliable, but she helps me speedkill the first phase... (Reliably killing them on the first turn lithos' is out). I could probably still do it pretty fast without her though, I'm just being lazy.
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Hooray, Sakuya is finally level 99.
Now I gotta kill 2k more monsters for the final set of recipes of Akyu. This is going to take a while =(
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What made me think that 10k monster wasn't that much, last time, was how before tackling a boss, I always took Satori with a breath attack and the POW spear for a ride in the first three stages, I guess. Then in this Weekend run I didn't do that and found myself with barely over 5k kills after the final boss :V Welp.
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I've been wondering for a while, would it be possible to beat Chihiro (in her own boss fight, not the last one) with only 2 or 1 characters? I've always wondered if there's a special scene for doing so or if it just proceeds normally. I could never manage to make a good enough strategy though, so is there anyone here with any ideas/suggestions?
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I don't think it'd be tooooo hard
Since she manipulates for water, you can put on the Boreal Amulet for star resist to water and regen in water land; now you have HP regen. Then you just need enough defense (and the double circle blunt resist accessory probably makes this not too hard) to take little or or 0 from her tentacles. Last accessory goes to the empty star death resist item (Since you'd definitely upgrade the double circle death resist for this)
You'd still be worrying about Blind with this setup, but you can't change it unless you can either manipulate for fire or take 0 damage without the blunt (or water) resist accessory (Not sure if you can get filled resist to bluntHeavy armor before now; you might be able to). Nitori would have Blind resist on her special armor, and has natural hp/mp regen to help her out a bunch. (She can get filled circle water resist naturally but octopus maelstrom is too strong) Characters that can equip heavy armor, if you can get the filled circle blunt resist one this early, could possibly manage w/o blunt resist accessory; or alternatively, you make the star water resist heavy armor (I -think- you can make it at that point?)
Anyway, you'd either use Nitori, or someone who can equip heavy armor (Either for star water resist or try to make due with filled circle blunt resist) and then slap a star blind resist accessory on 'em. I'm pretty sure the water armor still has regen in water land, and can check later. With a setup like that, you could probably solo her. It WOULD take awhile, though. Nitori with Element Bullet for elec would probably be by far the best DPS wise, if she can survive, considering you cannot equip Headshot Goggles for sakuya or youmu and if Youmu cannot finish her before running out of bombs then your DPS is -gone-.
Sanae might work too, as she gets death resist on her special armor, freeing up the slot for Blind resist that way. She has Elec attacks, mp drain on hit with snakes, and buffs/heals, so she could actually probably manage herself pretty great as well.
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Well, the expansion final boss was... really, really easy, especially compared to the main game's final boss, although I guess taking the time to grind 15000 kills at the bottom of stage 22 (which got Lithos and Sakuya to 99 and most other people somewhere around 90-95) and making use of the accessories were the main reason. (For the main game's final boss I just went in after single passing stage 21 without farming anything, and just basically reset a bajillion times until things go in my favor and let me win).
The first form actually gave me the most trouble since I forgot to put in a healer and Vortex made Active Camouflage quite useless, but Sakuya came through and got LW twice, which helped me take the victory before she herself is killed. Probably would've went smoother if I let Cirno take commander to help resist Dispel instead of staying on the field and be basically useless.
For the second form... does this thing even actually TRIES to kill you? Aside from Lithos who were tanking with 90 divine barrier, I don't think any of my party member got hit for more than 200 damage in total. Probably should've let Satori go to first form and help heal or something, since I was already putting Sanae here anyways. Not that it mattered because the thing didn't even try to fight back. Yeah.
Third form was also surprisingly easy. I totally forgot about Devil's 3-5 so it gave me some headache since Byakuren would always get killed in one hit (I serendipitously had enough HP on Marisa, but not Byakuren), but as she basically just sits there and buff and does nothing else anyways it wasn't too bad. Otherwise this thing doesn't seem to be seriously trying to kill either, other than Emperor's whatever which is telegraphed and easily stopped by Super Duplex Border. I actually messed up a lot and ended up having Youmu ran out of bombs, but I just had Marisa sparked the thing to death afterwards.
Now all that's left is evil map. Yeah. And the bulk of stage 27 mobs since I just escape spammed through it. I think Punish the Judgment and some equipments from those minibosses are basically requirements to get past the evil map, so time for more farming.
EDIT: Apparently the entire stage 27 mobs respawn when you use the save point, not just the evil maps. Welp. This is going to make farming somewhat hard.
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Heh.
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It seems that formations lose their effect if someone in your party is dead. Or is it just me?
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So been working on the misc quests and keep getting the one for Super Aja. What are Super Aja for and how many do I really need? Got four so far.
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It seems that formations lose their effect if someone in your party is dead. Or is it just me?
It seems to me like Moriya destruction or something is less effective when you have dead party members. I don't notice any lessen effect for Poison Doll formation when you have dead members.
What are Super Aja for and how many do I really need?
I think Super Aja are used to get the final tier character specific weapons. So, you don't need any if you don't plan to make those.
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Another question!
I know I can stack things like Rage Chokers to get more Attack Power. But, can I stack things like the Sun Curtains to get up to nearly 100% physical damage reduction? Don't want to waste time on accessories that end up not doing anything.
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Stacking of at -least- Divine Barrier (Not as sure about other kinds) was nerfed in some form in one of the patches because of being too abusable, I don't know about the other Barriers nor in what way exactly it functions now.
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It seems that formations lose their effect if someone in your party is dead. Or is it just me?
It's mentioned on the formation details page on the wiki. If the formation 'leader' (1st position) is dead, you don't receive the special effect of the formation(stuff like fire resist, the poison resist for poison guard) luring, and stat up/downs aren't changed.
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But, can I stack things like the Sun Curtains to get up to nearly 100% physical damage reduction? Don't want to waste time on accessories that end up not doing anything.
You can stack all damage reduction stuff, Divine Barrier, Physical damage reduction, and Magical damage reduction. Doing Sun Curtain 3 and 4 will give you 80% physical reduction. However, there is a cap and I heard it is 90%. This also means that if you have 90% Divine Barrier and 90% physical damage reduction you take 1% damage from all physical attacks.
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Guess I will need to farm lots of elmental shards then to make those stupid Sun Tsu books.
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Sup. http://puu.sh/1nbGL
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I congratulate you. I'm still only about to start Stage 22 in my 100% run. (Lunatic-mode goddesses weren't too hard, actually! ...but only after I figured everything out. That's how bosses go, though!)
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The hell is All-Protector?
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An accessory that gives star level protection to all status ailments. You get its recipe at the end of evil map, the endurance dungeon in stage 27.
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You also get a recipe for an accessory with star resist to all elements, barring Void.
Only the Yata No Kagami gives any Void resist, though, anyway. (It's a hidden property, like the Rod of Penitence's hidden +25% to all magical damage you do)
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Are you sure Rod of Pentinence adds to *magic damage*? The way the hidden property is worded ("ダメージ倍率125%"), it looks like the 25% damage is added to *physical attacks* made with the staff.
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Well I saw 125% Damage Amplification, figured physical amp would be kind of silly on a rod... I guess it's possible? I never actually -tested- it, because I was already wiping everything off the face of the earth anyway, and now already have the 10k kill staves and Holy Grail so it's outdated in any case.
But yeah I guess that's worth testing at some point. 25% damage is pretty easy to tell.
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Ah, right. Those two recipes. I thought it was something new and more overpowered in version 3.00 you get for clearing 100% since you mentioned that percentage.
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Well I saw 125% Damage Amplification, figured physical amp would be kind of silly on a rod... I guess it's possible? I never actually -tested- it, because I was already wiping everything off the face of the earth anyway, and now already have the 10k kill staves and Holy Grail so it's outdated in any case.
But yeah I guess that's worth testing at some point. 25% damage is pretty easy to tell.
If it is actually 25% physical or just 25% to all, then it may be worth using it with Remilia as your primary weapon. Remilia does have pretty high attack power regardless of her weapon choice.
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Remilia's javelins really helps her kill random though, because Psycho Bind is just too good. I guess it could work as a MP drainer.
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If it works the same way as the amplifications on brooms, spears, two-handed swords, guns, and javelins, it actually isn't much for Remilia, because javelins.
And one of her javelins do have MP drain.
Only use it if you want a STK attack or feel the need to boost her Red Magic or something.
I wish I could check things myself, but changing the locale is too much hassle, and I'm too lazy.
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It does, but Mana Drain Javelin's damage isn't that much better than using the D&D Staff. I have also tried going for Induction too and it is pretty good using Remilia's Soul Steal.
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Using the mana drain Javelin is a little better since you still get the patk bonuses from the tree ontop of it's better base power, and, more importantly...
Since the point is MP drain, it's something you'd switch on for a battle or two, and then take back off for a real weapon. Using a Javelin means you don't have to rearrange your POW trees each time, as you otherwise would in order to get Stave's MP Drain pow tree bonuses. It also means access to the good cheap Giant Throw skill for AoE and more damage and such, with a super low MP cost instead of one of Remi's non-weapon skills.
So, it's much more convenient.
A staff is still alright for a plan based on Red Magic and Remi's HP attack skills (Life Steal, Soul Steal, Star of David, etc, but it's a rather dubious idea due to cooldowns and other reasons), or if you don't want to/can't make the mp draining javelin. The javelin isn't a TON better. But it's enough to warrant crafting it.
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I have both and it is hard to see a difference. The Javelin does more damage, but has poor accuracy which you can sometimes notice. The D&D staff doesn't have this issue but the trade off is less damage. If Remilia can use a dagger it would have been better.
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Unexpectedly, 3.01 came out. Looks like it only makes fullscreen better and adds support to Xbox 360 pads though. Also some kind of engine changes.
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Unexpectedly, 3.01 came out. Looks like it only makes fullscreen better and adds support to Xbox 360 pads though. Also some kind of engine changes.
It most likely fixes the EXTREMELY abusable subquest glitching. If you want to abuse that, you probably should skip out on the patch. With material requirements lowered though, they aren't really that bad; it's just that since I'm planning to end up forging everything for completionism, I'm going to need a -lot-, so I'm going to refrain from updating for awhile >_>;
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Unfortunately, there is no quest for elemental shards and the quests in the shop can't be glitched unless I'm missing something. T.T
Wish there is a way to break the crystals back into shards. Wasted alot of shards making them when I did not need them.
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Many enemies at the bottom of stage 22 (The optional area were Resentment Level X enemies appear from the character re-get sidequests) drop shards at a very high rate, and there's a powerful monster for each one that drops a shard at 100% chance (unless you get a crystal instead :V but yes)
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Yeah I know but its more grinding *pouts*
I am still trying to get the High Ribbon from the Cyber Dragons so I can upgrade that into something awesome.
Guess I'll go back down in the caves. Last time I tried, I kept getting Sylphs which drop electric. I don't need electric! *flails*
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So today I learned that London Dolls apparently takes a buff slot.
How did I learn this? By using it as a last resort against a Bomb Refill from the final boss.
The final boss would have died in one more Paschal Moon-Reflecting Satellite Slash. I was using it that turn.
London Dolls overwrote Manussya Stance. :V
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No, it doesn't. What version are you using?
And the caves, you can enter other caves in the area for other Elementals.
In a clockwise fashion, ELE -> ETH -> WTR -> FIR. Or was it?
By the way, I got every enemy drop, every final tier Weapon and Armor. Grinding for the shards are so annoying, I actually sorta quit.
How did people even do it in the 2.xx days?
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How did people even do it in the 2.xx days?
They didn't. That's pretty much what it came down to :V Getting every enemy drop would have been vastly more horrible in those days as well.
Reiska:Did you use Nitori's Hyper Camo commander 3bomb skill? That definitely is a variety buff. I was watching your stream admittedly, but I wasn't looking at the time.
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Reiska:Did you use Nitori's Hyper Camo commander 3bomb skill? That definitely is a variety buff. I was watching your stream admittedly, but I wasn't looking at the time.
That might have been it, I don't really remember. Hardly matters now, I got her on the next attempt :V
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So I've been playing this off and on when I wake up in the morning for the past month or so. Have the final boss opened up, but I'm grinding for equip drops mostly (Working on getting equip/accessory drops from stage 20 right now).
I found it hilarious that the very first Hydra I killed in stage 20 forked over an Obsidian. That went straight towards the creation of an Aegis Shield.
On another session one morning, I got TWO Obsidian drops in a row from two Hydra kills. I was slightly shocked by that cause the drop rate on them is like...4% I believe.
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Pretty lucky. Last time I played their drop chance was like .1%. Weekend sure made stuff easier.
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It most likely fixes the EXTREMELY abusable subquest glitching. If you want to abuse that, you probably should skip out on the patch. With material requirements lowered though, they aren't really that bad; it's just that since I'm planning to end up forging everything for completionism, I'm going to need a -lot-, so I'm going to refrain from updating for awhile >_>;
Subquest glitching isn't THAT game breaking, though. Mostly it lets you get character-specific materials very quickly, and it helps with Orihalcon/Adamantium early on. The other ones mostly take place in Kourindo (except gold piece which takes place in Myouren Temple), which can't be glitched anyways.
I guess it's also good for skipping dry periods in the subquest cycle, because you only need at most 17 super ajas, but otherwise it doesn't see a lot of use.
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Still saves a -lot- of time with material getting, especially if you want all the final character armors too.
And especially especially if you forged a good amount of the gear in main game, which means you don't have a lot of the stuff stockpiled already.
Can be awesome power grinding, too, if you feel like that sort of thing.
Doesn't help a whole lot with skipping dry periods because the longest part certainly tends to just be -finding- the darn monster, which is why working towards a reliable (Not-debilitate-centered) setup for the Terminator is good if you want to grind subquests.
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I, myself, haven't synthesized anything before beating Lithos.
Did I mention anything about Sakuya + Ten Dice Sword?
25 Points to Illusion, 25 Points to Murder, 5 Points to Sword, boost her IND and ACC,
and watch everything that can be instadeathed be instadeathed. Hopefully.
For maximum effect, add Hypnotic Bullet and/or Byakuren's Hyper Trigger.
It helps a lot when grinding for material.
Maybe Youmu's Touhou Fuhai + One-Woman Army works better?
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So I've been playing this off and on when I wake up in the morning for the past month or so. Have the final boss opened up, but I'm grinding for equip drops mostly (Working on getting equip/accessory drops from stage 20 right now).
I found it hilarious that the very first Hydra I killed in stage 20 forked over an Obsidian. That went straight towards the creation of an Aegis Shield.
On another session one morning, I got TWO Obsidian drops in a row from two Hydra kills. I was slightly shocked by that cause the drop rate on them is like...4% I believe.
It's actually less than that, because monsters can't drop two items at once and their drop rate for Trapezohedron is 33% in Weekend.
I, myself, haven't synthesized anything before beating Lithos.
Did I mention anything about Sakuya + Ten Dice Sword?
25 Points to Illusion, 25 Points to Murder, 5 Points to Sword, boost her IND and ACC,
and watch everything that can be instadeathed be instadeathed. Hopefully.
For maximum effect, add Hypnotic Bullet and/or Byakuren's Hyper Trigger.
It helps a lot when grinding for material.
Maybe Youmu's Touhou Fuhai + One-Woman Army works better?
Oh wow that seems amazing.
One of the things I like about this game is that if something can cause some status effect, it will try to cause it every single time it's used (with success rate being affected by IND and RES obviously), instead of just having a chance to cause that effect and then having a chance to work or not. I found out about this when I was grinding for Youmu's formation which you get after some instant kills -- I just put a Golden Mattock or something like that on her, maximized the axe skill tree, +a billion IND, Byakuren's buff and a IND formation and then every time Youmu hit something, that thing died. It's a shame that for it to be 100% I need a lot of setup, but I guess just having Launch Earrings IV and V on someone would be enough most of the time. Or something blabber blabber everyone knows about this already
Ah yeah, Large Dakimakura (drop from Admiral) is written as "Large Dakimura" in the game.
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I think the rare drop takes precedence over the common drop, so obsidian would still be 4%. I think those Resentment Level elemental "king" enemies have 100% shard drop rate and then some chance to drop crystals, for example.
Speaking of the Large Dakimkura, I never got one while getting my characters back, and never found a good area to farm Admirals :T Guess I'll have to farm the bottom of stage 21. If there's any tips on where in that they spawn, it'd be nifty.
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The Admirals are in Stage 22, area N.
Enter the dungeon, step on the teleport, go South two times, then go West->North or North->West.
If you see Undine Queens(or was it Queen Undines?), you've come to the right place.
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I think the rare drop takes precedence over the common drop, so obsidian would still be 4%. I think those Resentment Level elemental "king" enemies have 100% shard drop rate and then some chance to drop crystals, for example.
Speaking of the Large Dakimkura, I never got one while getting my characters back, and never found a good area to farm Admirals :T Guess I'll have to farm the bottom of stage 21. If there's any tips on where in that they spawn, it'd be nifty.
On the japanese wiki they're listed as "95% chance to drop shard, 100% chance to drop crystal", so it's the first drop that gets priority. Hydra has trapezehedron as first drop, so indeed the chance to drop Black Obsidian is only 2.66~%.
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So I got late to Akyu's congratulatory 100 hours party, and now she won't give me her formation. Is there any other way to get it or did I screw myself up?
By the way, wow, are all expansion dungeons going to be just a billion enemies on some annoying place?
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By the way, wow, are all expansion dungeons going to be just a billion enemies on some annoying, reused place?
Yes, with an 'abyss' version of a normal monster as a boss.
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So I got late to Akyu's congratulatory 100 hours party, and now she won't give me her formation. Is there any other way to get it or did I screw myself up?
If you're talking about the 'Wall of Gensokyo',
you have to be in Heida Household when the in-game clock hits 00 minutes 00 seconds.(Even something like 2:00:00 works)
Talk to Akyu after that, and Keine will appear and give you the formation.
Rather misleading explanation, it is.
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...congratulatory 100 hours party?
I've played well over 100 hours in two separate playthroughs and never gotten that... :c
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If you're talking about the 'Wall of Gensokyo',
you have to be in Heida Household when the in-game clock hits 00 minutes 00 seconds.(Even something like 2:00:00 works)
Talk to Akyu after that, and Keine will appear and give you the formation.
Rather misleading explanation, it is.
...oh wow. And all this time I thought that "xxx:00:00" in the wiki meant you had to be in her house when the gameplay clock reached three digits (which actually would mean 99 hours, since the game starts saying "099:whatever" then).
:colonveeplusalpha:
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Pulled an extended morning session today in order to get the last 4 equip drops from stage 20 enemies, even getting a couple Trapezohedrons from some random Hydra kills in the process.
Took a quick jump into stage 21 for kicks and ended up getting Aya's 2nd character crafting item. Yay I guess?
Really just want to get a High Ribbon & Drake Scale, then I think I'll go take on the final boss.
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Whee, I'm stuck on Marisa/Alice in the postgame. Specifically, on how to deal with Modified Straw Dolls Kamikaze's outspeeding nonsense. :P
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Either Marisa or Alice solo is scary, once you take out one (Alternatively, if you let it drag on 12+ turns, they'll go batshit with each still alive!)
Alice is arguably harder because she starts using Alice Guard, her LW that makes her invincible for three turns. And she tends to use it every three turns, along with modified straw dolls spam that will likely take out any non-tank, making it not-easy to dispel. Marisa gets Final Master Spark though, and counters all physicals with Master Spark (although she always does that), so she's scary too...
On the upside, a single good tank with regen or drain ability (Just pump the land for some element and put on armor or a boost amulet for it; land regen for Mokou or Lithos tanks! Mokou's Xu Fu Dimension, NOT Possessed by Phoenix, grants regen too) can just tough out Berserk Alice and nuke her as soon as she fails to put up Alice Guard.
Sakuya and Nitori's trapezohedron weapons slay both of them, although Nitori might have trouble hurting Alice significantly. Alternatively, Alice doesn't have huge mdef to make magic useless unlike physicals, and Marisa can't dodge/counter magic (She has significant EVA and Perfect Dodge). If you bring the Vyse Sword (Ice Sword works out too from sheer power) on Sakuya and use Private Square+Weapon Bless, you can probably take out (or mostly kill) Marisa in two Private Squares, while magic attackers wail on Alice with the best they've got. You do want to get her HP as low as you can, even if you're gonna have someone tank her out.
...if you can take Marisa's attacks (She's vulnerable to Silence! Still has decent physicals.) you probably should get Alice almost dead first, or just outright kill her first.
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Yeah, I'm not having any trouble taking Alice down now (shifted party a bit, used Sanae's HP buffs), but I get one-shotted by Final Master Spark regardless of what I throw up defensively. :/
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I had alot of trouble with the fight as well. I do not use magic attackers often anymore and both Lithos and Youmu's multihit attacks had a tendency to hit Marisa as well (triggering a Master Spark). I used to just kill Marisa first and duke it out with Alice but I always just barely lose (stupid Sacrifice and Alice Guard spam).
So what I did instead was used Sakuya's Private Square to almost kill Marisa then slowly worked on Alice. My only magical attacker was Byakuren so I used her spells on Alice (White hole did like over 1500 each time, hey every bit helps). I think I managed to get both to critical before just killing them both outright. Thankfully, they can't block or dodge during Private Square.
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I had alot of trouble with the fight as well. I do not use magic attackers often anymore and both Lithos and Youmu's multihit attacks had a tendency to hit Marisa as well (triggering a Master Spark). I used to just kill Marisa first and duke it out with Alice but I always just barely lose (stupid Sacrifice and Alice Guard spam).
So what I did instead was used Sakuya's Private Square to almost kill Marisa then slowly worked on Alice. My only magical attacker was Byakuren so I used her spells on Alice (White hole did like over 1500 each time, hey every bit helps). I think I managed to get both to critical before just killing them both outright. Thankfully, they can't block or dodge during Private Square.
This worked, thanks to you and Serela. Now I can move on to stage 22~
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Got my High Ribbon in this morning's session. Came rather damn quickly too as the 3rd Machine Dragon I killed this morning dropped it. Sure surprised me.
Also pocketed a Strength Ring III (Immediately turned that sucker into a Strength Ring IV) and a spear that dropped from a Druid.
Also got two 2nd tier character crafting items...BOTH for Aya.
I guess I could make a high end armor for her with that crap, heh.
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I am still trying to get the High Ribbon. I have killed over 100 Machine Dragons. :(
I got the Drake Scale but that is far less useful.
Been taking a break for a bit while I let my backlog of videos catch up. Also tired of cycling through the same quests over and over.
Edit: So I decided to go clear out stage 21 for good ol sake. First machine dragon drops the accessory. So remember kids, if you not getting the drop, post about it and the game will listen!
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Cool. I had to kill who knows how many lesser dragons to get the scale.
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The game decided to mock me further. I upgraded the High Ribbon and went to see if I could get another. Sure enough, got another. Now I never need to grind at level 21 ever again.
Well, unless I want another drake scale. Meh
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I just use the instant reload trick to farm. Farming anything is so much easier with it.
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I just started playing this a bit ago, after a lot of trouble shooting, and I have a few questions. (Don't want to read stuff, lest there be spoilers)
1. Should I be synthesizing stuff a lot? I haven't really used it that much.
2. How do you use Alice? It seems like she's defensive but I'm can't really get it to work right...
3. Is it better to focus on the character specific weapons?
Gah, this game is fun, but some of the enemies... Game Over
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1.Mostly, no, you don't need to. Some of the weapons have nifty features, though. Even for all I might make them sound cool here, though, you can easily get all you need out of them with only a couple weapon forges total in the main game.
-Marisa's brooms can get you 6 mp regen per turn, and mp drain on physical. Infinite magic! The matk boost isn't too high per broom upgrade, so you don't need to make new ones often.
-Sanae has MP drain on physical, and decent attack power on her snakes, helping her spam buffs in randoms or just plain attack. Some of them have nice poison, too...
-Nitori's gun slayers (or Elemental Bullet) come in handy sometimes, plus Rage Eight is pretty strong. The third gun, that also carries Transcendent Slayer, is a pretty good make, it comes up for a few bosses with that slayer type... and murders mindflayers.
-Sakuya's weapons are all powerful and have cool slayers, but you don't want to make them all- you'll run low on her specific material. Definitely want to make the Vyse Sword, though.
-Alice's Rainbow Greaves give a wonderful resist set.
-Byakuren's Deva Scroll is one of the very few weapons in the game that boosts IND. Definitely worth making. (For that matter, beneficial buffs get increases in power every 10 IND up to 100)
-Some of Mokou's fists inflict status effects. Since the fist tree has a bonus that doubles the chance to inflict them, they have a very good hit rate, even if Mokou's IND is terrible. It's good to disable some pesky enemies...!
Alice... her Marionette Parrar skill is her staple skill to spam forever, even in randoms; it's drastically powered up by one of her Growth trees, and once you get 25 points in said tree, it's simply incredible. Even if stronger when in the same column, it's still very powerful if Alice is separate. She also has skills specifically for defending against certain elements, which are useful when you have to face a lot of scary attacks from said elements; and London Doll is cool.
Alice is more of a boss character at first, but if you're having troubles living in random battles, switching her in to tank your party usually makes a world of difference.
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Cool, thanks.
I'm using Marisa, Sakuya, Nitori, Mokou, and Patchouli. With Sanae as the leader at the moment.
Dang, though. 6mp Regen is cool, is there anyway to buff Patchouli's regen?
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I just started playing this a bit ago, after a lot of trouble shooting, and I have a few questions. (Don't want to read stuff, lest there be spoilers)
1. Should I be synthesizing stuff a lot? I haven't really used it that much.
2. How do you use Alice? It seems like she's defensive but I'm can't really get it to work right...
3. Is it better to focus on the character specific weapons?
Gah, this game is fun, but some of the enemies... Game Over
Alice is very much defensive yes. Generally the best way to use her is to choose a baiting type of formation (Hakurei Type, Hinotori Skydance, and Poison Shield tend to be the common ones here) and then she spends most of her time spamming Marionette Parrar on whatever part of your formation is the most important to keep alive. This can also be augmented with London Doll to further increase the chance she's targeted over other party members, and occasionally Little Legion to eat some threatening boss attack you don't want hitting everyone.
As for the other two questions, they go hand in hand with each other. In my opinion, it depends very much on the character and the specific weapon tier involved. Not every character-specific weapon is worth synthesizing, or even necessarily worth using. However, the armors generally are worth it. As for the weapons, in the main game:
- Reimu can generally get away with using generic weapons (likely staves) until her trapezohedron weapon becomes available. She definitely wants that one, however.
- Marisa can also generally get away with using generic staves for a long time. She ultimately wants either her meteorite weapon or her trapezohedron one; the trapezohedron one gives her a significant casting speed boost and has slightly higher MATK, while the meteorite one gives her 3 extra bombs. The 2x MP regain on brooms definitely is nice, but Marisa tends to be one of the most MP-economical characters in the game anyway, so it may not be that needed depending on your playstyle.
- It's probably worth making Sanae's Rat Snake just for the paralysis resistance, but beyond that she won't really NEED another snake upgrade until Sidewinder or Yamata no Orochi. In the interim, if you really want to use Sanae for offense, she's probably best with daggers, but generally speaking Sanae is better used for her support. Sidewinder's paralysis infliction may be more useful than Yamata no Orochi's multistrike, but you might have a meteorite shortage. That all said, Sanae's snakes are really not terrible.
- Aya's fans are pretty bad in general. You may as well make the Stardust Fan to augment her blinktanking, but if you're actually using Aya for offense she's always better off with a generic weapon IMO.
- All of Sakuya's weapons are worth making, though they vary a bit in how worth making they are. If you need to skip any, Nagerling is probably the one to skip (there are other ways of slaying dragons if you need them). Assuming you pick up every treasure chest in the game, you'll have enough Silver Trays to make all of them, though often late.
- Patchy's pretty much better off with a generic weapon regardless of whether you're using her physically (I favor daggers here, her high innate PATK offsets their low values and she needs all the ACC/SPD she can get) or magically (staves). If you're dead set on giving her a book, it's not worth bothering with anything other than the Comiket Catalog, but Rocks tend to be the scarcest of the nonspecific materials in my experience.
- For Nitori, make the Carbine and Autocannon, other weapons for her are a waste of materials.
- Rainbow Greaves are the only weapon you should make for Alice. They will, in fact, remain her best weapon all the way until you can make her Super Aja weapon near the end of Lingering Summer Heat.
- Satori is another one in the "probably better with staves" boat. However, The Green Eyes are probably worthwhile in the early game for the poison enhance, as in the early game her poison damage often outperforms anything else she can do. Force Eye might be worthwhile late-game if only for the MYS protection.
- Youmu's katanas aren't particularly bad, but neither are they exceptionally great. You can get by just fine making only the Doujigiri Yasutsuna and using generic weapons on her until then, but if you make the Kusanagi, you probably won't even need that. If you are going to make other katanas, Kashasetsu has Undead/Youkai Slayer at a point of the game where neither type is terribly uncommon, and Shichitei Nenbutsu's CRT+5 isn't bad.
- For Mokou, it's probably worth making the Damascus Knuckle, Magnum Steel and Invincible Glove for their status effects alone. One-Shot Punch isn't really necessary, stick with the Invincible Glove.
- Byakuren's Deva Scroll and Vidhya Scroll are both good options. She can use generic weapons until she gets one of those. Deva Scroll's better for when you're using Byakuren as a debuffer/negative status applier, and Vidhya's better otherwise. Byakuren's offense sucks regardless of her weapon, so it's better to focus on the defensive aspects of her weapons IMO, and Vidhya Scroll has 20% Divine Barrier.
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There's a book skill for Patch that regenerates MP, but it costs a life to use it, and books have less passive mp regen.
The 3 mp regen from Staves at 25 points (and the mp drain on physical from staves) is about all you can get! If you switch Patch into her huge Patk boosting growth tree though, you can probably get decent drain off a staff... but you'd have to switch back to magic build after so your magic doesn't suck.
Byakuren's 1bomb commander skill regens some mp for the party, I suppose. Patch has some large mp pool bonuses, which help with that.
Also, another tip that came to mind; this is the kind of game where you want everyone to get leveled up (Except maybe Aya, who is less important, but still nice in the commander slot and for rare occasions). Just switch out for different people every new stage or so. Also; Nitori's damage output is entirely based around hitting weaknesses or slayer effects, and her massive bonuses to damage on such. Just something to keep in mind; her damage is low otherwise, but very high in the right situations.
cut, mostly fine advice from Reiska. On Reimu though; the thing is, when you get trapezohedron stuff, there's almost no enemies weak to Light left until expansion, where you'll be able to make her orichalcon weapon fairly soon instead. So the Trapezohedron Gohei isn't too important simply because her attacks aren't of much importance during that time.
Satori is another one in the "probably better with staves" boat.
Later in, using a dagger to boost status effect infliction (along with dagger statuses and especially if MP drain comes along) is also pretty viable for Satori, but yes
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Okay, wow that's a lot of text.
So far I've actually found Nitori deals a fair bit of damage and her Final Word is rather strong, but Sakuya and Patch are way out damaging her. Which kind off makes sense.
One last thing, is it possible to raise Mouku's Mp? Her spells are strong but she just doesn't have enough Mp to use them often.
Thanks for the advice though, I'm currently grinding my way through the netherworld, can't find my way around this place.
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Mokou's Bombs will become more of a limiter soon then her MP. She only gets noncards in the form of weapon skills. She has a growth tree that boosts MP, bombs, cooldowns, and eventually MP cost; but you can't really afford it without hurting Mokou's attack power drastically, until later in the game. Not to mention that 20% increase on wimpy mp is still really wimpy mp, because, percentages.
I liked using her with spears since they have a pretty cheap AOE attack skill to use. Or just making her attack power good enough to deal heavy damage on normal attacks. She can also attack very fast due to physical attack speed bonuses in a tree, which is really nifty sometimes, because you rarely want to actually bring out Aya for her rapefast speed.
On that note... using a spear on Mokou endgame is nice. Fujiyama Big Eruption, with 0 cooldown? YES PLEASE.
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There! Did all the miscellaneous quests at least once. Now just have to farm up more Devil's Hearts then go after the Existence Hater or whatever it is called.
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This game is really hard :<
I'm still trying to get a feel for it, but I wouldn't mind getting some advice <3
I'm currently level 4, have just beaten Patchy and Sakuya.
I've picked up what I'd like to believe is all of the treasure in Stage 1. Notable things include a 'Magic Shield' (Sanae) and a 'Short Sword' (Aya).
Is Aya supposed to be my sword nuker?
And is Reimu usually a tank?
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In the early game Aya is useful for beating stuff up before you get better characters, late-game uses are Yukkuri hunting and being left out of the party. Reimu is a light-nuker, but you don't really find that many enemies weak to light. She's more useful in specific boss battles, with her guard skills.
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I just picked up Mokou and Byakuren (how annoying it was!)
I'm using the Moriya Wall formation with Reimu in the front, Byakuren is the commander.
What is the commander, anyway?
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A commander is a party character that grants a permanent buff, a commander bonus, on the party, while she is a commander. Different characters have different commander bonuses. You can also have commanders use support spells before starting to choose moves in the beginning of a turn, again, each character has two unique support spells.
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If you find the game hard even in the first couple stages, the later ones will probably make you hate life :V
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A better formation is Hinotori Skydance, with Mokou taking the Center Position. She'll be a good interim tank until you get Alice.
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Characters just kind of get used for whatever earlygame, the further in you get the more specialized they'll become. You'll get to ease into their roles. However, it's easy to overlook how they're properly used in some cases (Nitori and Satori are the most common characters to be incorrectly given a "Terrible" stamp, some people make mistakes with Youmu because of stance shenanigans, and Aya is slightly more useful then most give her credit for, albeit still mostly not relevant)
Coreven:Aya is still nice for a few other things (Stabbing mindflayers or instant deathing them before they move, blinktanking) but yeah it's true that Aya is one of the least generally useful characters- you don't normally need her speed or turn manipulation or blinktanking (Or Breath Reflection, later), and her offensive power and MP is weak once you get a good way into the game.
On Hinotori Skydance, the downside is the non-center slots have a -40% P.def penalty, which is super gross. You probably don't need that much of a tank-centric formation at that point in the game, anyway- but it certainly can be nifty.
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Well, I used it for pretty much everything up to the Okuu-Orin boss fight. Even when I had Alice, Mokou was still doing duty as a damn good tank herself.
(Mostly because I was still figuring out how to work Alice, so I needed a Tank I knew how to work until then.)
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Yeah, Hinotori's fine early game. The DEF penalty becomes more onerous the later you get though.
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Made it into the expansion content yesterday. Main game final boss went off without much issue for any of the phases since I was well prepared for each one. Satori with Mad Thunder really made the 2nd phase go by quickly. So much so that I had plenty of time to setup a couple buffs for my backup team before ending phase 2...and then watching the first move that I see in the final phase be Vortex, haha. Bounced back from that thanks to liberal use of Private Square to buy me some time from not being facerolled.
Expansion wise, got a bunch of characters so far. Going to likely go after Reisen next.
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*flops*
Done! Beat the final boss of Lingering Summer Heat. Only thing I did not do was the extra dungeon since I do not really need it at all.
Final boss was not too bad. Nearly died on Phase One from Comet killing everyone but Sakuya. Luckily the red ogre decided to put a field effect up rather than attack Sakuya, allowing a final Private Square to finish things up. Phase Two had a hiccup when Patchouli died but Reisen and Lithos (with no bombs) finished things up. Phase Three was easy though I forgot to bring a field effect to overlap the final boss's so I just damage raced and ressed Alice once.
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So, Orin / Okuu is pretty easy, up until when Utsuho tries to tag you with Mega Flare.
I'm just cruising along having only a minimal amount of trouble, smacking down Orin in like, 5 turns, when SUDDENLY 130 DAMAGES TO EERYWON
And she only had like 300 HP too :<
Better than my first try, where Patch got Zombie Fairy'd D:
My party's about level 10~12. 14, 15 maybe?
I've already passed the point where leveling up has become.... quite slow here.
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Look for weaknesses, Utsuho is quite easy to take down.
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Does that mean I should take her out first? I've been sticking with dropping the cat because of her annoying skills.
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Does that mean I should take her out first? I've been sticking with dropping the cat because of her annoying skills.
Take out Orin. If I remember correctly, she can revive Utsuho or use something similar to that. Patch should have the water land raising skill by that point.
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I'm pretty sure I dispatched Utsuho first, but you should really go for Rin, or she'll rez Utsuho. You can also blind the cat and prevent her from using skills as well.
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Utsuho will only use Mega Flare after going below half health Ithink. So get her close to half, then blitz her with damage. Actions are decided at the beginning of the turn so you can reduce her to half one round then follow up if you are fast enough. Or you can ensure you go first with Aya's commander bomb and that can allow you to use Sakuya's Private Square to buy you two or three more turns. Turn manipulation can make alot of fights easier.
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Fantasy Heaven on a magic-build Reimu will deal obscene damage to Utsuho. Aya can make you go before Mega Flare, and with Fantasy Heaven, you shouldn't have any issues dealing half her HP in one turn.
...Orin revives Utsuho? Wut? I've never seen that happen. Orin revives dead party members as zombies. Which is harmless if you aren't dying. Orin without Utsuho is pretty harmless IMO.
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I actually brute-forced it starting with Orin's defeat. Looking in the bestiary, I find that Okuu is weak to light. Cue Reimu's re-entry into the active party and subsequent skill spam.
Oh, but how did I get Okuu's data, if I always defeat Orin first?
> Ihakasa's Moon Curse
> Okuu is cursed!
> Lots of damage
> Sliver of health
> MEGA FLARE
Oh! But I've since smacked her down, after extensive (read: +1) level grinding. Thanks for all the help! Now I get to be lost in Chireiden proper.
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*flops*
Done! Beat the final boss of Lingering Summer Heat. Only thing I did not do was the extra dungeon since I do not really need it at all.
Final boss was not too bad. Nearly died on Phase One from Comet killing everyone but Sakuya. Luckily the red ogre decided to put a field effect up rather than attack Sakuya, allowing a final Private Square to finish things up. Phase Two had a hiccup when Patchouli died but Reisen and Lithos (with no bombs) finished things up. Phase Three was easy though I forgot to bring a field effect to overlap the final boss's so I just damage raced and ressed Alice once.
You should definitely do the evil maps. It's fun!
EDIT: I wrote up a gignatic help document on the evil maps. I'll admit that most of this is rephrasing an existent Chinese walkthrough, although I did try a few members that the original writer did not try, and expanded a bit more on the factual infos. So, please try using it and see if it helps, or if there are parts that can be improved.
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I really should contribute to the wiki (I've done a full first almost-grindless playthrough, most of a second 100% completion goal playthrough, and am like an encyclopedia on the game) but I'm too lazy to sign up
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You should definitely do the evil maps. It's fun!
EDIT: I wrote up a gignatic help document on the evil maps. I'll admit that most of this is rephrasing an existent Chinese walkthrough, although I did try a few members that the original writer did not try, and expanded a bit more on the factual infos. So, please try using it and see if it helps, or if there are parts that can be improved.
After 59 videos of Genius of Sappheiros Weekend and 40 videos of Lingering Summer Heat, I have had my fill for now. Thanks though. XD
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What is Transparent Armor? I imagine it's a drop from a stage 27 miniboss, because that's the only kind of item I could possibly not recognize (I know -most- of those...) XD
Edit:Just found it in the accessories list on the wiki. Dear goodness, the final item on it. And dear goodness, it's effects... 90% physical null chance, but X weakness to all physical elements. I'd wear it with a Zephyr Mantle IV just to be safer >_>
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What is Transparent Armor? I imagine it's a drop from a stage 27 miniboss, because that's the only kind of item I could possibly not recognize (I know -most- of those...) XD
Edit:Just found it in the accessories list on the wiki. Dear goodness, the final item on it. And dear goodness, it's effects... 90% physical null chance, but X weakness to all physical elements. I'd wear it with a Zephyr Mantle IV just to be safer >_>
I don't know what the Weekend drop rate on it is, but it's 10% in 2.x.
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I don't know what the Weekend drop rate on it is, but it's 10% in 2.x.
20%. Looks like all the stage 27 minibosses have that.
Minus the 2.5% chance on the secondary drop if you want to be exact.
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Yeah, just kill Orin first, because ally zombies are annoying. Royal Flare + Fantasy Heaven should be more than enough to wipe Utsuho. Both of them cast very fast, so you likely don't even need Aya's 3 commander bomb.
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Okuu actually has priority on her Mega Flare, though, if I recall correctly, so the best plan would be bringing her down to almost 50% and then finishing her off in one turn.
I think I recall using Aya's commander spell once, but even so Okuu went first and literally nuked everyone.
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I don't think it is possible to go before Aya's commander bomb.
Have anyone tried to take Mega Flare? It should be Fire right? So Mokou should be able to take it with spec.
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Mega Flare is MYS.
I just used the MYS special shield that one of the enemy drops and had Alice use her shielding skills.
Dealt 0 damage to everyone everytime. Quite a stupid battle if you have it.
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Haha, awesome. Alternatively Marisa has that commander 3bomb to make you invincible to mystic. That's only once (Cooldown, you'd die next turn), but if you just want to beat up Utsuho right away that works out fine.
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I used Paparazzi to finish off Utsuho before she could use Mega Flare, and even without it one or two of my characters were fast enough to act before Utsuho could use it.
And I suppose yet another option would be to use Hyper Camouflage.
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Well, the Mystic shield seems like the best bet if you have it. It would probably make the fight very easy, just kill Orin first and Okuu will eventually die if you are taking 0 damage from Mega Flare.
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ok, tell me now. I am playing the first game, so.
are the stages going to continue getting longer? stage 5 already took me like what, 2 hours? how the fuck are you supposed to know you have to talk to torches to progress :V I am not paying attention to details like "OMG IT'S NOT BURNING"
so yeah, is there going to be a cap or is the last stage like 10 hours worth playtime?
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I knew I recognized the name somewhere. Thanks for the comments on my Genius of Sappheiros LP, Starxsword. :)
Really depends on the stage. Most stages have some minor gimmick you may want to pay attention to (like manipulating torches). Besides that, depends on how quickly you can fight the encounters. I do not take that long in the early stages but the late game can take a bit simply due to the large number of encounters in each room. But that is like final stage level stuff.
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so I only tookforever because I'm an idiot :V that's reassuring. I suppose I can continue then. will be a pain to grind up youmu to current levels, though. I'll probably leave her in commander spot for a while. /hax
also, does anyone know the artist for the potraits you're shown when you use a last spell etc?
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Yeah, you get boosted exp for low level characters, so you just drop them in the commander slot for awhile.
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The 'Staff' in the official site mentions that the illustration was done by someone named 小川ハリ.
I was unable to find any other evidence myself.
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ok, tell me now. I am playing the first game, so.
are the stages going to continue getting longer? stage 5 already took me like what, 2 hours? how the fuck are you supposed to know you have to talk to torches to progress :V I am not paying attention to details like "OMG IT'S NOT BURNING"
so yeah, is there going to be a cap or is the last stage like 10 hours worth playtime?
Well, the first time I tackled the second to last dungeon I took about 14 hours :V but that was mostly because I believe I was using ineffective strategies and still felt like beating every single enemy in it (there's a billion per room). The first encounter I had took me about 30 minutes to beat because the enemies kept calling more enemies who did the same and used a skill to prevent my escape, and the only area attack I had wasn't too effective on them. It was kind of horrifying.
It obviously didn't take me that long in my latest playthrough, I believe something between 3 and 4 hours (also while killing everything because I like doing that).
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One thing that greatly influences how long it takes is
A.How many of the encounters you want to beat
and
B.How effectively set up your party is for them.
They're both probably more important then what the actual stage is, with a few exceptions. None of the stages are terribly long, unless these two factors amplify things a lot :V
Then again, this might be an unclear answer? Mmmph. Stages can easily take several times as long purely over these two factors, really. (And no, being effectively set up is not based on your level, and mostly not on what equipment drops you've got; it's not a grind-oriented kind of difficulty, the game is just very strategical)
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> very strategical.
WELP, SEEMS LIKE I'M GOING TO BE STUCK AT SOME POINTS :V every strategy game ever I overcame by simply overgrinding. I think I never used any of the strategies for labyrinth of touhou. like, don't debuff the eientei bossfight? fuck that shit, renko all the way :V
yeah. I am like that. turns out I'm bad at RPGs and exploiting useful things. like...orin and okuu fight? you know, the one the wiki recommends killing orin first? I went for okuu first :V I tend to ignore status effects altogether and just throw some high level spells at my enemy. has been like that for everything. ever since pokemon.
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I'unno, I think killing Okuu first is totally the way to go in that fight anyway.
But in any case, you'll have to learn eventually, you'll start hitting sheer walls at certain bosses (and even some random encounters will give you obscene trouble) otherwise :D Buffs and debuffs and statuses can be exceedingly useful in this game, even for not-bosses.
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> I threw byakuren out of the party because she had like 2 moves that did actual damage as opposed to mokou who works wonders, even if she only has very few spells.
if I hit a wall, I will probably stop played for a year only to pick it up again and see why I stopped in the first place. I dunno. I read youmu&yuyuko is pretty darn hard. I can always grind until I oneshot everything :V
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Not really, the stat boosts from a levelup do almost nothing :V and getting the next tier of attacks tends to take awhile. Plus the game gives you lowered exp after awhile.
Also rofl :V Byakuren is an awesome damage dealer by using her offense buffs to double someone else's damage. Or using a debuff to make bosses do zero to you.
Then again I don't think she knows either of those yet, but.
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I can always grind until I oneshot everything
Ahahahahaha... no you can't.
Grinding's only good for getting Power and item drops. Even then, you have to use strategy against a lot of the bosses.
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Pure grinding will get you nowhere. Every boss in this game is a puzzle boss to some degree; they're all very easy if you know what you're doing.
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Though Youmu + Yuyuko seemed rather luck based, they either destroyed my party in the first few turns or I died to to intsa. death, but I might have been way under-leveled.
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With Sanae's RES buff, you can mostly be fine against the instant death. Her def buff helps vs. Youmu too... and from there, there's a couple ways to kill Yuyuko;
either mdef debuffs and then use magic, or Aya for high accuracy attacks that ignore perfect dodge, or Nitori's perfect-accuracy chasers that hit weakness for huge damage, or Satori's Poison Art, or Nitori with a gun to ignore perfect dodge and use Element Bullet+Spellcard to literally facemelt both of them in one hit....
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Does raising your starts reduce the chance of some status effects? For the battle:
I just used Nitori's flame line spell, it hit Youmu on her weakness and Yuyuko for a fair bit. By the time Youmu went down Yuyuko was at half health, and I just used Big Bang or what ever it is to do the final damage. It was annoying watching everyone miss or hit for zero's, though Mach Punch allowed Mouku to actually deal damage.
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I used Nitori's Bad Camouflage to reduce Yuyuko's evasion to 0. She never dodged anything with that up.
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I knew I recognized the name somewhere. Thanks for the comments on my Genius of Sappheiros LP, Starxsword.
No problem. I was looking at your Fantasy Maiden Wars E LP, so I decided to watch the GoS LP too.
Does raising your starts reduce the chance of some status effects?
Yes, sort of, there is only 1 stat(POT) that reduces chance of getting hit by status effects and it takes like 4 points of that stat to get a point of RES(this is your resistance to status effects). Though, if you RES is 100 or something, I don't think status effects can hit you at all. Reimu and Sanae can reach 100 RES, so they are pretty much immune to status effects if you get there.
You can also use Sanae's RES buff or Byakuren's RES buff for pretty much immunity to status effects too. Byakuren's RES buff is stronger, but you don't generally need it unless you are trying to block Vortex. Sanae's RES buff is AoE, so it is more useful overall.
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people, youmu and yuyuko weere piss easy and I had no idea what I was doing. defeated them on my first try and luck-survived resurrection butterfly because sanae had a no-death item equipped.
same goes to komachi. Idon't even know why the wiki says she's even remotely difficult. all she has is a lot of HP
yuuka and medicine however...fuck them :V took me like 5 tries to realize that I have to change something. put the power-up point on different stats, changed reimu's skillset and all was set and go. defeated them then.
OH YEAH, WHO ELSE THINKS YOUMU IS GOD TIER!? she was 5 levels lower than everyone and skill did 1000+ damage to yuuka. as opposed to everyone else.
who else thinks eientei is stupid. do I have to use both parties? because 6 of my members, aka the 2nd party, has an average level of 9.
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The battle seemed to hinge on what stance Youmu uses, cause she'll take apart you party in a few turns or spend the entire time doing nothing. The first time I fought them, I got Youmu down, despite not actually having a prepared party, and than Yuyuko spammed death and killed off all party members. The second battle... I lasted around 4 turns, my entire front line was downed in two hits.
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I wouldn't say she did nothing. she took out large chunks of HP. I just had 2 characters that could heal, so she just wasn't fast enough. though riemu spend half the time dead :V
yuyuko was the one that did _nothing_. all she spammed was ghastly dream that di like 0 dmg to everyone but mokou. I completley forgot about the resurrection, so that one caught me off guard like crazy. but sanae surived that shit, so it's alright.
I'm having trouble in eientei, though. my main party onsists of mokou, sanae, reimu, youmu and sakuya (with byakuren as commander). so a lot of enemies give me trouble. like the bamboo sprouts, the red jelly, the carriage and the rat. that's like...everything, except the silly broom and the bacteria. I believe if it wasn't for youmu's godlike abilities (I.E death inducing normal strike. like, what? it will be a while before I change that weapon), I'd have wiped like 10 times already. I haven't looked at the wiki yet (with the exception of 1 time in labyrinth of touhou, and yesterday where I rad up to yuuka and medicine, I never look at the wiki before I've done it myself), but it will probably tell me just that. physical attacks are shit for party A. it will probably tell me that team A has to be all magical and shit and team B is well suited to be on the physical side.
I can imagine this game pulling that dickmove. because that would mean I have to play both parties. probably making team A fight the first half of reisen & tei and team B the 2nd or something. it will be a while before I can continue, because I have to grind 6 character from average level 9 to average level 25...god, I hate this game's level-up system.
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The issue is you're using a physical party on the side of Eientei that's highly resistant to physical attacks, and uses stuff like Blind and Physical Reflection. Use a magic party on that side, and a physical party for the other side, and you should be good!
On the matter of Youmu- use Human stance for bosses after you get Slash of Eternity. At that point, it's by a landslide the best stance to use for single targets, and that stays the same for the rest of the game. (Arguably Asura could work after you get a new non-stance-specific nuke, but...!)
it will be a while before I can continue, because I have to grind 6 character from average level 9 to average level 25...god, I hate this game's level-up system.
It shouldn't be an issue, especially since you'll get large EXP bonuses on the low level characters. While level 9 might just be too low, your characters can be 10 levels behind and it doesn't make a huge difference; and they'll be catching up that much really fast with boosted exp and the way the EXP curve works.
For that matter, this is a kind of game where you need basically everyone leveled up. You'll get screwed over later in the game if you're severely neglecting half the cast. (Aya is the least important character to level)
You don't need to grind though, just make sure to change up your party when you start every new stage. Even in the non-weekend version (Which has a much less nice EXP curve keeping your average level a decent bit lower, and far lower drop rates) I was able to complete the game without grinding once, without much trouble.
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I can imagine this game pulling that dickmove. because that would mean I have to play both parties. probably making team A fight the first half of reisen & tei and team B the 2nd or something. it will be a while before I can continue, because I have to grind 6 character from average level 9 to average level 25...god, I hate this game's level-up system.
You can use a mixed party between physical and magical attackers for both A and B side. I believe that is what I did the first time around and I did fine. Try to split your buffers(Byakuren and Sanae) in 2 separate parties. Their buffs are very useful, especially attack up or magic up, depending on your party type.
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say, how worthwhile is it to let satori learn some spells from the enemies? like stuff from bosses, which I am sure are learnable, too. until now, she's only got some real weak stuff, but...eh, I'm sure there're strong spells she could learn, but I am just not sure how much it's worth, considering the risk against bosses, for example.
also, tei was super easy, reisen was really weird to fight against. somehow managed on the 4th try or so, though.
another thing is the innerpart of eientei. like what? the enemies were super dangerous and I don't think I wiped as often in the game as I did in that one dungeon. I felt so bullshitted at times. but what's worse was the boss fight. I had no idea how to approach it. both had tons of HP, dealt tons of damage if they chose to and healed for easily a round worth of damage. I had to switch around with parties, formations, equipment and growth-points before I found out kaguya can be dealt with by using charm and control. I never used control before, so I wasn't exactly sure how it'd help me in the fight. turns out having the boss buff me was easier than using sanae to do so :V it was still a pain to deal with considering the sheer amount of HP. marisa and patchouli didn't have enough MP to deal with kaguya after eirin was down so I had to resort to physical attacks, which was really annoying because nobody actually had a powerful physical attack (team was reimu, sanae, byakuren, patchy and marisa). and while marisa dealt 1k dmg per attack with absolute zero and that fire spell, without MP they don't help.
well, that happened. I'm in stage 11 now and the easy encounters are nice for a change. I suppose I'll get those in the 20s up to reimu, sanae etc, who are now 34/35. I don't expect a fight that difficult anytime soon. unless the game's a bitch and the momiji midboss (?) was just to tease me. and then BAM super tough bossfight in my face. preferably momiji 3x as strong :V or kanako with 30k HP or whatever I will have to fight at the end of this stage.
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Satori is a good support with Area Heal, Starlight Barrier and whatnot. Punish the Judgment and Mad Thunder are strong attacks, and she has access to the rare darkness element. I mostly went for all spells to satisfy my collection urges, but a great many of them are useless. Eh, I'll let Serela fill you up on her uses.
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Yeah, most of Satori's spells are unimpressive. There are a few of them that I find very good. Poison Art is very good from early to late mid game. It starts being not too effective maybe around stage 16 or so, around the Heaven area. Mind Blast is very useful, and Enervation is insane. Enervation can single handedly win you both regular encounters and boss encounters. Mad Thunder, I heard is good, but I did not get it. Petro Breath and pretty much most of the defensive skills are all good. Everything else I don't believe is all that impressive. Later on, you can get some pretty crazy spells, but that's post game.
For the second part of Eientei, try to use Sanae and resist buff. There are a lot of enemies with some pretty crazy status effects.
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I see, thanks for the input. I'll think about it a bit more, then. not sure what I'll do with satori yet.
as for eientei: I'm done with it; it was simply a pain to get through. I was so slow at times that the enemies respawned :'D well. that happened.
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Do use Satori. While a lot of her spells are crap, the ones that are worth learning are very much worth learning. Area Heal, Mad Thunder, the Demon series, and later Medoroa, Dark Giga Flare, Tentacle and Vacuum Wave are all fantastic spells, and she also has lots of status spells like Enervate, Time Stop, Death Zapper, Wail, Petro Breath. She also has some great support spells in Leaf Shield, Starlight Barrier, Reflect Wall, and MUCH later, Raise Dead. I can't imagine beating some challenges such as Spirit World Challenger or the entirety of the endurance dungeon without her.
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I'm still a bit under the weather, but the best uses for Satori in mid-game, uhm...
Area Heal is fabulous forever, and using her vanilla multitarget element magic (UFOs give them to you in Cloudy Heaven if you don't get it before) is good for triggering chasers in tandem with Patchouli, which is extremely effective on a few stages with lots of elementally weak enemies. I highly, highly recommend getting Mad Thunder from Iku when you run into her not too far away in the future, too- it's super strong if you get it this early.
She would have been great for Silence/other-debilitating-status on the scary enemies in Eientei, making them harmless, but you made it past that! By the way, the best way to have gotten high damage on the Eientei trio is slayers; they were Magician and Warrior, which are common slaying types, on all of Nitori's guns, and Marisa's laser POW tree has a bonus that gives ALL her magic (not just the lasers) slayer on Warrior/Magician/Giants. Plus, lasers hit both of them at once, so it's convenient.
Once Satori gets lv50, you can go pick up stuff like Reflect Wall and Enervation and Time Stop, if you like. Starlight Barrier is nifty sometimes, as is Leaf Shield (which is a lv40 skill I think but awkward to learn), but Reflect Wall/Enervation are definitely the more useful ones I think.
I like Death Zapper, too (Waterfall Dragon God guy things in the Youkai Mountain Lake)... although I never really use physical Satori until pretty late in the game, because CHASERS and/or MAD THUNDER. It's notable that if she uses a Knife you can get a nice success rate/speed boost on any physical status inflict skills, for that matter. Later you'll also get a nice dagger with MP drain that inflicts Silence too, which makes that a pretty nifty setup idea.
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Satori fight, recommended level/party please
Chireiden's proving to be pretty bullshit so far
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for satori, I just went with level 10~ party, I believe. it consisted of Reimu, Sanae, Sakuya, Mokou and Byakuren with patchouli as commander.
satori's rather easy for a boss, I didn't apply any sort of strategy to beat her. if you feel like you aren't high enough, just try to get a level or two in her dungeon and fight her again. it worked for me with kaguya and eirin. make sure your characters have a set role, though. like using sanae for healing/buffing purposes only. don't do mixes, that will only drain bombs and MP where it shouldn't.
also, I'm on stage 13 now. I guessed momiji would be the boss of stage 11, after all. but I didn't expect cirno. the freeze/attack combo was unfair if you don't expect it to come. but I suppose later bosses will always have some sort of shenanigan. the fgith was fairly easy, though. buffing my resistance with sanae wasn't a sure-way to prevent freeze, but I can't remember any character making me immune to it, anyway. maybe byakuren had something, but I don't think so. eh, that's over with, anyway.
stage 12 was tough, actually easy layout and everything, but after a while, my MP just went down and I was in the middle of nowhere - turning back would let me face all the enemies I left out, continuing would let me face all that's in front of me. I just tried to avoid all in front of me and hoped for the best. somehow worked out.
Kanako and Suwako were fairly easy. once I figured out kanako can be instant death'd, at least. figured it out through youmu, whose sword has instant death effect. Suwako seemed immune to it, so I had to fight her properly. she did have pretty damn high magic resistance, so patchouli didn't help here at all. Sakuya and youmu worked wonders, though, since suwako is weak to all (?) kind of physical assaults. things like slash of eternity did over 2500 damage, with criticals over 4000. that was easy.
now, I think I'll have to fight iku and tenshi either together, or iku first then tenshi. I dunno what to expect from iku (i.e sheer power or some trick that has to be avoided by some strategy akin to cirno/momiji fight), but I think tenshi is going to come at me with sheer strength. I am assuming I need alice for that fight. just a hunch :V expect more to come in the next 2-3 days for that matter
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Get Mad Thunder from Iku for Satoriiiiiii
Anyway, speaking of the Satori fight for the other person, she's really trivial except for her Charge attacks. Earth: She's gonna use Petro Cloud, so you need Reimu's border that prevents status effects for one turn. Water:Elixir=all her HP is recovered=sucks, so use Sakuya's field that prevents HP recovery. Elec is Thunderclap which isn't that bad, and I honestly don't know what Fire is but it probably isn't bad either.
The Earth/Water ones are basically instant resets if you don't use the countermeasure after she charges, so you want to bring them along.
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Satori fight, recommended level/party please
Chireiden's proving to be pretty bullshit so far
Just hit her until she dies. After she changes elements, hit the element she's weak to until she dies.
I... never though about doing what Serela recommended. :V
And Sakurei, you know that you can change your party at any time you want, right? So if your "main" party is running out of MP, you could put someone who fullfills a similar role in their place and move on with the dungeon. That's what I did in my latest stage 20 run where I didn't want to spam that healing circle too much, juggling Marisa/Patchouli/Satori in the back row.
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I fought iku. she was bullshit. I also didn't get thunderclap. well, I did. but died, so satori didn't get to keep it. fuck that fight. it was so much bullshit I looked up how to effectively defeat her. went with youmu + byakuren's dark sword. 1 slash of eternity dealt at least 3000 damage. up to 8000; she just kept bullshitting me that whore. I tried using youmu, byakuren, reimu, alice, sanae. didn't work because she kept not using that death combo until turn 5 or 6 where neither little legion nor reimu's border were active, killing like 3 character. obviously sanae couldn't keep up. I'd have used mokou as a commander, but that wouldn't have worked because I needed aya's first turn thing. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF this fight pissed me off way too much. aven't had this much trouble against any boss yet. I needed like 4 youmu attack at most, but NO, she just wanted to keep being a cunt. really, fuck that fight.
I hope tenshi won't be as rage inducing. but she'll probably have less bullshit going on than iku. I mean instant death is pretty dickmovery. especially when it's as arbitrary as it was.
I never thought of changing the party within a dungeon. god I'm stupid :V yeah, you're right. I can do that. will probably in the future, too. derp.
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@Satori fight: Just hit her regularly and then hit elemental weakness when she transforms and you are good to go.
@Iku fight: I think having good resistance will work. If you can prevent the shock effect, you won't get hit by instant death. If you have items that prevent shock, that will also stop that instant death combo. That is pretty much it for that fight, as long as you can prevent shock, you are good to go.
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I did put 30+ resistance on everyone except byakuren. it will shocked me most of the time. though, when I changed out sanae for patchy (for tiny extra damage) I managed because youmu pulled a 5-hit slash of eternity with all being criticals over over 2k damage. like what the fuck. she is just so god tier in this game.
OKAY LITTLE QUIZ: DO YOU KNOW WHY I LIKE LABYRINTH OF TOUHOU SO MUCH?!
there are basically no bullshit puzzles (safe for f10-12). stage 14 is the biggest pile of shit ever. I liked the straightforwardness of stage 10 and 11. but no, they had to put a ridiculous puzzle (which I haven't solved yet, really) in a stage with fucking difficult encounters. I don't know if it's apparent yet, but I hate puzzles with a passion. fuck the recent shit that's happening in this game, seriously.
I hate this game, but I just can't stop ;_;
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Iku isn't that hard, the first time you go unprepared against her she'll do the shock+instant kill combo, you lose and you realize Reimu can protect everyone with her barriers. If Iku's pattern gets too erratic, just reset and try again, that was most likely just bad luck. In fact, the last time I fought her she decided to only use her combo on the turns Reimu had her barriers up, so it was about as easy as you think. :V!
As for stage 14... I assume you're having trouble with the upgraded Mind Flayers? Just like their younger versions, Sanae shuts them up amazingly. Then you stab them to death with Nitori's transcendent-slaying gun and they die. The only really annoying part about that dungeon are the Shisas and their reflect/barrier spells. The puzzle is a bit annoying because you're going to get stuck on it until you realize there's a shortcut to the beginning of stage 13, and that a very specific switch configuration is needed to unlock the gate forward. From then on, all you need to do is kill groups of 5 Mind Flayers, and enjoy Tenshi being Tenshi!
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Iku isn't that hard, the first time you go unprepared against her she'll do the shock+instant kill combo, you lose and you realize Reimu can protect everyone with her barriers. If Iku's pattern gets too erratic, just reset and try again, that was most likely just bad luck. In fact, the last time I fought her she decided to only use her combo on the turns Reimu had her barriers up, so it was about as easy as you think. :V!
Alice has Little Legion to counter it too- either give her high resistance or a star resist to shock item, which I -think- exists.
Both skills cast super fast, so Aya isn't needed.
As for mindflayers, there's a lot of ways to deal. Just setting up your entire team to resist it (Partially by using characters who can get nice resist without items, like Reimu/Satori/Youmu) is one, or Sanae's RES buff, or just quickly Instant Death them, or use a formation like Sonic Stream (obtain from using Aya's enemy-examining skill on 15 enemies and then go to Hakurei Healing Circle) for insane movement speed so you can beat them all up with stuff like spears (They have a pierce weakness) before they move.
I think on my first playthrough I did the all-resist method, and on this play I did the Sonic Stream method. Sonic Stream worked out better IMO, but you have to be able to take out enemies fast since you have a significant DEF penalty, so the other ones can be safer.
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bad luck like what, in 5 fights?`well, actually sounds like me. RNG hates me in every game I've ever played.
I would use sanae's res buff if she was fast enough. she gets outsped every time, so that doesn't help. haven't used aya's enemy examing skill even once :V I would probably use neo-hakurei formation, too. it ups res, as far as I know.
BUT ALL THE RES IN THE WORLD DOESN'T HELP ME BECAUSE RNG SHENANIGANS CAUSE ME TO GET PARALYZED ANYWAY :V yeah. youmu has like what, close to 40 res? reimu, too. they still get paralyzed every_goddamn_time_
also, figured out the puzzle. the solution is retarded. and I have to reset everything for every wipe I have. that's horrible game dsign, imo.
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40 resistance isn't a whooole lot (Although it is pretty good); what you have to do is stagger out really high RES on one or two characters, and then have some characters use direct status resist instead off of small armors or accessories. Star resist to paralysis accessory, Restrict resist accessories/small armors, a permanent resist accessory for someone with intermediate RES since you don't have any really strong ones at this point, etc. That way you can make most of your team resist it pretty well.
Youmu's main appeal in resisting statuses is each of her stance trees gives a resistance bonus to a certain kind of status group when you put 3 points in. One degree of resistance isn't much, but it adds up when you put in other bonuses from equipment.
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The puzzle in Stage 14 is quite the annoyance.
If Sanae is being outsped, you're putting the Skill Points in the wrong place.
Give 13 points to Wind Priestess, then you'll outspeed everything except for the predictable high-priority attacks.
Sanae's RES buff gives +35 RES even without any bonuses(+52 RES with 20 skill points in Wind Priestess), so use it. It helps almost everywhere.
About Elite Mind Flayer's Mind Blast, you need 60 RES to be able to stop to completely.
40 RES will still give about 30% chance of hitting.
Use Sanae's RES buff with the Wind Priestess skill tree, it's awesome.
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Yeah, I was about to say.
That's probably Sanae's most important skill tree for random battles, and her time is best spent buffing even outside of Mindflayer encounters. The only other thing I'd consider really important is the MP drain in the Snakes tree, but the Faith tree is a useful place to dump points after that. Youkai Extermination and Miracles are pretty useless, IMO. She's never really going to be dealing good enough damage by herself, and autohealing to full after fights make the healing bonuses kind of a waste. Keep a healing spell around for emergencies, but you shouldn't need to use it very often if you focus on ending fights quickly.
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Youkai Extermination's 1 turn cooldown reduction becomes important once you get her final buffing skill that stacks on itself awkwardly, but... yeah, not for a long time. Using Sanae to actually attack goes out of style as soon as you can manage her MP while buffing in randoms. (Although she's actually pretty fabulous as an attacker on some of the early bosses...)
Well, apart from trying to land poison/paralysis with a snake and drain mp, once you've buffed up. Maybe some limited use to trigger elec chasers.
Okay. So there's many good ways to use characters depending on what you're trying out. :V But you get the point.
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duh, tenshi was easy! after seeing what se can do, anyway. upon assuming that all her attacks are earth typed, I used alice's color spectrum thing.
actually, why the fuck is alice so important in EVERY boss fight recently :V also, it took me like 3 or 4 fights to notice that she can dispel youmu's stance :V I was thinking that since iku was weak to dark, tenshi might be weak to light. NOPE. dark again; so I used byakuren again. this time with my other strong physical attacker - sakuya. she didn't nearly do as much damage as youmu, though. still, with negating her only actual powerful attack, she was easy to survive. the bit of damage drill did was quickly healed with sanae. not some bullshit boss for a change. I'm pleased with that.
I also started to look into stage 15. so...super mario? hell, even the sound effect is similar. the encounters I've had weren't too bad, but nothing to sneeze at, either. I might wanna use someone else for sakuya/youmu for this dungeon, since a couple encounters (the skeletons and lizards, from what I have seen) are pretty darn strong against anything physical. so magic it is. I think I'll try elemental physical to see if it's the physical aspect or the non-elemental aspect, however. I can imagine mokou being used as something that is not the commander for once :V
and lastly: is that genji the genji? you know, the one reimu flies on in the pc-98 era?
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The job of a tank is boring. It's hard to split that kind of boring job over multiple characters. Yet it's as important as it is boring.
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tanks are arguiably the 2nd most important characters after healers and buffers. attack only comes in third, imo. I mean, you can often slowly take the enemy boss down if you can survive via tanks and supports, but having a team full of nukers, who are often easily taken out, doesn't help you. especially against trick bosses like iku or yuuka/medicine.
I don't dislike using alice, I just find her use to be very...limited outside of bosses - normally. so she's only around 35, while most others have passed the 40s by now. I should probably go to a lower stage for a bit to grind up the last few character. those I'm never using. because eientei taught me I have to split up my party sometimes. my guess is it comes at least one more. eientei as an introduction thing, while the next time(s) are going to be some hard challenges.
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I remember using Alice a lot outside of boss battles. Mainly because her spamming Marionette Pariar actually allowed me to survive most encounters.
And yes, the party splitting comes back. And it gets worse. Far worse. Oh the painful memories...
Finally, yes, that is the Genji. Reimu sucks at taking care of animals.
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Outside of a handful of the superpowered rare encounters in the final stages, I never really felt like Alice was very useful for random battles either. She's really good at tanking, but not much else, and that level of tanking is pretty unnecessary for random encounters.
I always went with status effects and debuffs for damage mitigation, since characters with those can still contribute when that job's over. You don't really need a tank when nothing can manage to do more than double-digit damage.
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Alice was my mainstay in all battles ever. If I wasn't using her I was dying all over the place.
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BUT ALL THE RES IN THE WORLD DOESN'T HELP ME BECAUSE RNG SHENANIGANS CAUSE ME TO GET PARALYZED ANYWAY yeah. youmu has like what, close to 40 res? reimu, too. they still get paralyzed every_goddamn_time_
Yeah, as others have said, 40 RES is good, but you need higher numbers than that.
@Sanae's buff speed: Her buff is pretty fast, you should not be getting outsped. Maybe you are using a very slow formation or not putting points into her buffing tree?
@Tenshi fight: Alice is pretty good here. I used her to beat this fight, this is the only fight I used Alice to win with, so she isn't necessary in the party against bosses. You just have to think of other strategies. Enervation and Power Down are very good debuffs that can shut down bosses.
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I would use sanae's res buff if she was fast enough. she gets outsped every time, so that doesn't help.
Go to the growth menu, choose Sanae, reset any points you have allocated and pump them all into the first option. Voil?! Sanae's buffs no go before anything in the game and they're quite a lot stronger! In fact, they're only really useful like this!
By the way, her damaging options are actually pretty good in a few stages (Eientei and Great Temple come to mind) where he can easily hit weaknesses. Hitting a weakness with snakes/frog bombs also means she's going to recover a ton of MP if she has enough points in snakes, which is always a plus.
As for Alice, you're going to enjoy her (and the Poison Shield formation, which is tailor-made for her) in dungeons where enemies like to target your entire party -- like, guess what! Stage 16.
In case you haven't gotten that already (and you most likely will on your first playthrough), just kill an enemy via Toxic and step on the healing circle in the Garden of the Sun. The easiest way to do that is with Satori, using Poison Art/Poison Hand in the first few stages, wearing the poison boost armor you get somewhere, as well as the Poison Lily (Netherworld, first map IIRC), and The Green Eyes (one of her first personal weapons), after an IND buff from Byakuren.
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I tried it, it didn't work. a number of enemies fell to venom (I.e satori's poison hand), and walked unto the healing circle, but nothing happened. not when I put alice as commander, either. what am I doing wrong?
am I not allowed to use any attacks on the enemy or what?
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Venom's not enough. The poison needs to be stronger.
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Dagger's Poison Raid + 80 IND might get you somewhere, if my calculations are correct.
Byakuren's Hyper Trigger will give +60 IND even without any boosts.
I did manage to get Poison Shield BEFORE the Yuuka and Medicine fight, just so you know.
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hey, I didn't even know it existed, so shhh. but alright, I'll try to rep up some of my poison attacks to get whatever comes after venom :V
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Don't forget your launch earrings :D
Also, it's possible you used it on an enemy that was somewhat resistant to poison. The sunflowers and fairies in the first screen of the Garden of the Sun should be fine, while the earth-elementals and snakes and weird things probably resist it.
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managed to get the formation. just dumped 25 skills on the appropriate tree and buffed IND with byakuren and I was good to go.
I also cleared stage 15 and 16 today. 15 was fairly annoying because I somehow kept running in circles and i didn't exactly see what to do. somehow I got through, though.
genji was probably the easiest boss in quite a while. though, tenshi was very similar. I don't think he dealt any damage to me aside from the breath attacks - Alice wasn't killed, still. he was annoying to take down, though. he had like what? 30k HP? that was awful. weakness to light didn't help considering I didn't bring byakuren with me (I mean, how am I supposed to know :V) reimu was there, but...yeah.
stage 16 was straightforward and simple. can't say I was a fan of the encounters, but that's alright, still. kurenai was easy, too. mainly due to low HP. I went into that fight with the wrong party :V didn't have sanae with me, instead I had sakuya who didn't do nearly as much damage as youmu or patchouli (as usual, for the former).
oh yeah, where the hell is the silver box in stage 15 xD I got the key, but cannot find the appropriate box for it. I know I saw it somewhere but I cannot remember which room it was. DERP.
also, orihalcum and adamantide: which weapon/armor/shield level do I need those for. I mean, they seem pretty important :V
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Ultimates, pre-expansion (and I think post-expansion, too). Also stuff like Kusanagi.
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I actually have a funny story about the Yuuka-Meddy bossfight.
My team was Reimu, Alice, Mokou, Sakuya, and Satori. Sanae was the Commander.
Mokou, being my headbusting tank(paladin? Well, she's got a revive and buffs I guess..) was equipped with the Crowbar.
Eventually, I ran out of bombs for Sanae. And Reimu, Sakuya, and Alice had fallen.
Mokou, being as stubborn as she is, would often revive. By then Yuuka had already dropped as well. leaving just the durable and toxic Meddy.
Satori, being geared for Poison Arts(Which was a big key to defeating Yuuka.), was functionally immune to poison. And was in fact, able to tank meddy's attacks and regenerate due to land effects or somesuch.
Basically, it came down to Mokou being stubborn as usual, reviving, smacking meddy a few times, dying again, rinse and repeat.
Satori, sadly, due to needing The Green Eyes for the poison bonus, wasn't doing much. So it was all Mokou.
fast-forward an hour or so, and mokou finally knocked down Meddy(Everyone was completely out of MP., thus earning the win..
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yeah, after stage 17 I got the recipe for kusanagi and created it. well, that's some crazy stuff. youmu is like twice as strong now :V I don't know how many of you will call out on me for this but man, satori can do basically nothing. she's got some generic attacks she got hit with but nothing actual strong. I don't feel like having a dead weight in a boss fight, really. she's a great character, but I just can't find any use for her in boss fights, considering a lot of these are immune/high RES to all the stuff she can do.
now in 18, there is splitting up...in 3 parties. HOORAY :V not looking forward to that. I think I'll get everyone around level 50 before I continue, though. I'm not sure what to do with my teams ~.~
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Wait....I had Byakuren, not marisa! I forgot about that.
See, I had Byakuren around for her IND buff. My strategy was to go in and try to land Venom or Toxic with Poison Arts, given the large HP totals Yuuka had, this was a practical choice.
Also, Satori's not as deadweight as you think. Sure, she's dead weight once she runs out of Bombs and MP, but a lot of the cast is like that when they do. Mokou, Youmu, and Sakuya being the rare exceptions in the maingame, due to their nature as physical beatsticks. Yuugi, Lithos, and Remilia are likely the same in postgame. (I wouldn't know, as I haven't gotten there yet.)
In conclusion, Satori's a strong case of Magikarp Power/Lethal Joke Character. She might seem entirely underwhelming, but she's a lot stronger than one thinks.
She's also the only one for a long while who can ignore Magic Defense considerably I think. I believe that's with Medoroa?
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she doesn't help me if she can't inflict poison or stat debuffs on the boss. it's as simple as that. plus I always, for some reason, need byakuren to give sakuya or youmu (depending who's with me) an elemental attack. in addition with sanae and alice, all I have left is one slot. and that one changes depending on the fight I'm in. but it has never been "oh, satori looks like she'd be most useful here, let's take her" oftentimes it's a magical attacker like patchouli or marisa. I actually have a very rigid boss-fight pattern. and with the exception of a few bosses, it always worked. youmu's slash of eternity coupled with byakuren's PATK power up and elemental weakness (if there's one) deal over 3000 damage per hit. even on genji, who had massive defenses. and now, she's actually gained a boost of 80 or so PATK due to wearing kusanagi. I don't think there are many bosses who can stand against this.
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3000 damage per hit, or 3000 damage total? Because if it's the latter, it's not as crazy overpowered as you think, and you might start to have some trouble once you run into bosses with 65k HP and regen. Youmu is great, but I never really felt like she was the best character in the game or anything.
Around that point, I was mostly using Mokou to blow things up for 15-35k each hit with Fujiyama Volcano, depending on the boss.
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Satori's usefulness is highly dependent on what moves she knows; and the more notable ones aren't ones you're terribly likely to learn by chance.
Apart from using generic magic to activate a chaser, I suppose. In bosses you'd probably use Patch or Marisa if it was just a generic spell though, and not, say, Mad Thunder for elec chasers. (Sunburst would make her a decent choice for Fire too... although it's nothing compared to Mad Thunder)
If you only have some generic boring spells for her, then yeah, if she can't inflict status effects she's not worth bringing to a boss fight. (Unless it's with the intention of learning off it)
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she doesn't help me if she can't inflict poison or stat debuffs on the boss.
Most bosses can be hit by one or the other. There are not all too many bosses that can ignore both. But if you do face a boss that ignores or is highly resistant to both, then yes, I don't recommend bringing Satori. Satori's other role is to heal and defend. Her Leaf Shield, Starlight Barrier, Reflect Magic, Area Heal, and Heal are very useful. All of these skills, unfortunately, require you to learn them.
3000 damage per hit, or 3000 damage total? Because if it's the latter, it's not as crazy overpowered as you think, and you might start to have some trouble once you run into bosses with 65k HP and regen. Youmu is great, but I never really felt like she was the best character in the game or anything.
Youmu's not overpowered or anything, but she is the hardest hitter consistently pre-expansion. If the boss has 65k hp and regen and there's no real edge by using other characters, your best bet is Youmu if you want pure damage. If Mokou can do 60k, expect Youmu to hit 90k. Of course, there are some enemies where this isn't the case, like enemies with resistance to her weapons or have high physical defense, you should use magic or have really high raw attack power(something Youmu lacks). Or if your other characters have slayer or can hit weakness vs the opposing enemy, use that instead. For instance, if the enemy is weak to fire, use Mokou, if the enemy is a certain creature type, like Warrior/Magicians, try out Nitori.
Also, if you are up against multiple enemies, Asura is the best, but against single targets, Mannusya is generally the best.
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In conclusion, Satori's a strong case of Magikarp Power/Lethal Joke Character. She might seem entirely underwhelming, but she's a lot stronger than one thinks.
She's actually just a Blue Mage with a few status spells. Mostly useless if you don't get her to learn monster skills, pretty amazing if you get the right ones. Also, put the right things in the right places and you get basically a slower and cuter Marisa, with access to all elements.
In fact, she's the only reliable dark-element magic user in the game, because Byakuren sucks at that and Patchouli needs to spend bombs to use hers. In the expansion there's also Remilia, but her usage of that element is kind of weird.
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Youmu's not overpowered or anything, but she is the hardest hitter consistently pre-expansion. If the boss has 65k hp and regen and there's no real edge by using other characters, your best bet is Youmu if you want pure damage. If Mokou can do 60k, expect Youmu to hit 90k.
I don't know, man. I never really saw Slash of Eternity do what I managed with Fujiyama Volcano.
I was playing the game alongside a friend the first time I played it, and he was shocked that I was able to two-shot most of the bosses from Genji on. And he was using Slash of Eternity! Maybe it was because I went after slayer weapons over raw damage when preparing for boss fights (I one-shot Matsuba using a spear I got from the Garden of the Sun, eight stages ago at that point.), but I tried similar slayer setups on other characters without seeing the same results.
I'm looking at an Anastasis fight on Nicovideo right now and this dude is doing 900 per hit with Slash of Eternity (~2000 with a crit). So somewhere in the realm of 6-7k average each attack, and when I did the fight Mokou was easily exceeding that without a crit and doubling the best case scenario with a crit. And this Youmu was using the Doujigiri Yasutsuna versus my Mokou's Turtlesmasher. Anastasis is weak to slashing and resists bludgeoning. The reason I picked Anastasis for the comparison was because it was the fight where Mokou was at her weakest*, and even then there's still a pretty staggering damage difference. Higher raw attack (Probably not even much, since Youmu's weapon had a good 30 points on mine) and a slayer can't be the only reasons for that.
I'm not saying Youmu's not good, but I think the claim that she's consistently the hardest hitter is a little suspect. Especially when her main attack is something as random as Slash of Eternity. The guy in this video was getting mostly three hits and never doublecast SoE. That probably felt pretty bad.
*I ultimately had her sit the fight out, but only because she needed a few more bombs to take Anastasis down and I somehow never noticed the +bombs accessories.
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If someone's resisting a weapon type, use Byakuren's Elemental Weapon, which 'overwrite's the weapon type, unless you're trying to beat the game without her.
Youmu's Crescent Moon Slash + Byakuren's buff was how I pushed through most of the game.
Slash of Eternity has rather meh accuracy, and 3-hits come out 50% of the time, so that's that.
I, myself, was never aware Mokou can deal that sort of damage.
She becomes very useless when she runs out of bombs, unlike Youmu, so I guess I never used Mokou to the fullest.
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@Youmu and Mokou: That is not a good comparison. You are comparing Youmu with Doujigiri Yasutsuna vs Mokou with Turtle Smasher against Anastasis. Both Sakuya and Mokou should do more damage than Youmu in this scenario without buffs. Anastasis good defense and that hurts your damage output a lot, especially since Youmu does not have raw attack power. Against high defense enemies, you are better off using attacks with higher raw power. You will get better numbers if you switch to Asura stance.
This is the same case as when you try to fight the Terminator Mark II. Your damage on it is nothing, you hit it for zeroes using Youmu with Lightning enchant. This is simply because you do not have the raw power beat their defense. You need Byakuren or Sanae's buff and possibly some attack up items, before you can go nuts. If you want to compare, why not compare Youmu vs the goddesses against Mokou vs the goddesses, both using Kusanagi? Or just compare it against any regular enemies? I am sure Youmu will consistently outdamage Mokou.
In most scenarios, Youmu will outdamage Mokou. But that is assuming you are using buffs, unless you are up against enemies with lackluster defense. Against high defense enemies, her damage is not very impressive and you are better off using either Mokou or Sakuya. If you want to compare Youmu's damage with Mokou, just have them both use similar weapons with similar slayers. Mokou's growth tree only gives her 30 attack more than Youmu, so that is not a very big edge.
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when I say 3k I mean per hit of course, not in total. my youmu is loads stronger than my mokou, but also has level difference reasons.
I ALWAYS go with elemental weakness + byakuren's ATK buff. so of course youmu does tons and tons of damage. I don't see the problem with her. to me, she's the best character in the game, but that may be biased :V seeing how she's my favorite after Flandre. I was planning to go into stage 18 today, but I'm not sure how to split up my party. it's probably similar to last time where one faces physical, one magical...I dunno about the last team, but it feels liek mixed is a good guess.
any tips for that?
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party 1 faces a variety of enemies. Some reflect magic or physical, some are Dragons that are hard to kill without slayer on them, and lots have an elemental weakness. I recommend having Byakuren/Patch/Nitori set up so you have Byakuren buff one, and then chaser rape- and Nitori with a sword for Dragon Fang Strike. You may want Alice for this party! The enemies are kinda scary! Try to get some kind of elemental resists on your guys too, here. Fire Breath, if nothing else, is kind of common here. (If you're not using Alice, then Mokou is the one leftover to tank, but you'll need to set this party up with good enough equipment to make it through in that case)
Party 2 faces some enemies that null or are resistant against magic, and lots of Permanent status effects. You need EVERYONE IN THIS PARTY to be able to highly resist Restrict and/or Permanents. Might wanna throw a small armor with resists on someone even though they can wear something better. The Pinaka spear is great here because there's some spirits to slay and some enemies are weak to pierce. I'd recommend Sakuya/Aya/Youmu (Get Youmu's restrict resist +1 bonus for 3 pts in Deva!) and Sanae using a patk buff and then being on healing/status cure duty if needed. You can get away with going lite on the status resistance if you're gonna have Sanae just use her RES buff when needed, though, so whatever works out.
The third party fights a lot of enemies weak vs. Light (and/or Dark, but just concentrate on Light) or Elec, along with some annoying slimes that you want to blast out quickly with either Fire or Water. Some enemies highly resist or reflect physicals. Those are the three elements you need to cover. There is also a lot of petrification in this party, so get out your petrification resist items! Reimu and Satori are shoe-ins for this party, as long as Satori has moves to cover at least 2 of those three elements; and Marisa is plenty useful to hit those Elec and WTR/FIR weaknesses. If Alice is your party one tank, Mokou is your tank/panic-nuke-button for this one. You'll have to be somewhat careful if you're using Mokou here though. (Also the deer are weak to Elec, which is non-obvious. Iirc the elephant things and cockatrices too, but they are also weak to light along with some of the other enemies)
The individual sections aren't very long and they all have a midway one-time healing circle, so don't worry too much about conserving your MP as long as you don't go crazy.
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Satori's boss killing damage, for pretty much all of the latter half of the main game, comes directly from Mad Thunder, which is a stupidly overpowered attack as far as magic spells goes. If you didn't pick it up from Iku, then she won't be able to do much damage to bosses. She can still pull her weight against randoms with the right status spells though.
Slash of Eternity isn't that strong of a spell. Before level 60 Youmu is a decent damage dealer, but she's not really godly. It's when she picks up Paschal that she becomes peerless at damage dealing. If you're facing high defense enemies before you get Paschal, you might want to try Deva Stance instead. Deva Sword skills have high attack multiplier instead of high damage multiplier, so it gets past high defense a bit better. On Biotopos though Mokou with a turtlesmasher is WAY better than Youmu though no matter what you do.
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If you want to compare, why not compare Youmu vs the goddesses against Mokou vs the goddesses, both using Kusanagi?
The final boss has much higher defense than Anastasis. 800 to 300. If defense actually matters as much as you say, the difference should be more pronounced. At the very least, I'd expect the numbers to be similar, but you could get Fujiyama Volcano to 0 cooldown by that point and be constantly throwing out big damage instead of having to use a weaker attack on off turns. More importantly, if Youmu isn't good against high defense, who does that leave that she's actually the best against? The only bosses from Genji onward that have less defense than Anastasis are Chihiro and Lithos.
But I don't have an endgame save to test it anymore, and I didn't have anywhere near the materials to make the Kusanagi my first time through or I would have tried it then.
Deva Sword skills have high attack multiplier instead of high damage multiplier, so it gets past high defense a bit better.
I suspected this was why I saw Mokou doing as much damage as she did, but my Japanese isn't good enough to really work out the damage formula. If that's what's causing the difference, it's more of a case of Slash of Eternity not being as good as advertised, and they should be doing similar damage if Youmu used Deva stuff more often.
On Biotopos though Mokou with a turtlesmasher is WAY better than Youmu though no matter what you do.
Yep (http://i.imgur.com/6YTdh.png)
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The final boss has much higher defense than Anastasis. 800 to 300. If defense actually matters as much as you say, the difference should be more pronounced.
Having enough attack power matters. You don't need to compare it to just the final boss. Compare it with any enemy. I use the final boss as an example, because that is one of the enemies where you should be buffing your attack and have attack up items.
From my uses of Slash of Eternity, it is very good. But then again, I make sure I buff my characters beforehand. Otherwise, you are better off using the other Sword skills with higher damage multipliers.
I suspected this was why I saw Mokou doing as much damage as she did, but my Japanese isn't good enough to really work out the damage formula. If that's what's causing the difference, it's more of a case of Slash of Eternity not being as good as advertised, and they should be doing similar damage if Youmu used Deva stuff more often.
The advertised damage seems right. It advertises 3 to 5 at low damage. The other sword skills say high or very high damage. They would both be weaker than Slash of Eternity though, assuming you buff or if the enemy doesn't have high defense.
Against Biotopos, that would be a good enemy to compare against by having Youmu use the Turtle Smasher. Buff sufficiently and see if it is possible to exceed 40k. The numbers should favor Youmu.
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well, I started to do stage 17. oh god why. I tried to cheese it by going with a full party per route, backtrack, re-arrange party for 2nd path etc. the way the dungeon is made allows this.
I wiped because the HDD disk crashed 4 of my characters in one hit :V sanae got killed before she could flee. welp. now I have 2 choices: either do something else ingame, wai until every enemy has respawned and repeat everything OR do it like you're supposed to and form 3 four-member parties. also, don't tell me my RES was horrible. that was just super unlucky. I do have proper resistances on everyone by now. Next time I will probably use sanae RES buff just to be sure. that was ridiculous.
for experience's sake, I'll probably do the former and farm for some items and supplies and whatnot on lower stages.
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can't we just leave it at both of them being fabulous :V (If the enemy has high fire resist though that hurts Fujiyama)
Slash of Eternity and Fujiyama Volcano are both fearsomely strong attacks, although SoE is certainly a little more luck-based since 3~5 hits and Youmu relies on her massive crit damage multiplier. For that matter, other stances don't stand a chance on bosses, regardless of what people are saying. The damage is HORRIBLE comparatively in boss situations pre-lv-60, plus it hurts her criticals. Her Level Eighty tier Deva nuke might be okay, but by then you have other options...
Exception is the final boss in expansion, because Asura's nonspells are nifty for AoE damage there, plus you'll have Paschal around. You might have Conjoined Stance by then anyway, though. Reincarnation Slash~
Cut by Sakurei:I think HDD Format ignores at least some of your RES
and why do you have to wait for all the enemies to respawn :V You could just... walk back in, and only a few should be back. The one-time healing circles respawn, for that matter.
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because if I walk in immediately again with a half assed 3 man party, they'll get killed nonetheless. I'd rather kill every encounter again so that I can be safe. it also allows me for more mineral drops :V I'll probably need them.
I only used up one 1-time healing circle until that point, too. I was doing well, I think. that encounter was just complete bad luck. I suppose getting a crushing weapon for the HDDs is a good idea. mokou currently has a sword ~.~
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Having enough attack power matters. You don't need to compare it to just the final boss. Compare it with any enemy. I use the final boss as an example, because that is one of the enemies where you should be buffing your attack and have attack up items.
From my uses of Slash of Eternity, it is very good. But then again, I make sure I buff my characters beforehand. Otherwise, you are better off using the other Sword skills with higher damage multipliers.
The Anastasis example I gave earlier was with buffing. She's got significantly less defense than Biotopos, so what makes you think Youmu would suddenly do so much more damage there?
I'm looking at the damage formula on the Japanese wiki at the moment, and the first step is multiplying the user's attack by the skill's power. The target's defense is subtracted from that, then the skill's damage multiplier is applied. What this means is that attack buffs are going to have a significantly greater impact against high-defense enemies (I.E. Almost every boss in the last half of the game) when applied to skills with high base power as opposed to skills with a high damage multiplier. Fujiyama Volcano has a base power of 350, Slash of Eternity has 105. Attack buffs are over three times as effective on FV than SoE. Mathematically! SoE's 150 damage multiplier (Compared to FV's 101) isn't enough to make up that difference. And it just gets worse when you consider that each individual hit of SoE is reduced by defense. Multiplying for slayer and elemental weakness happens near the end, and having a very high base power will give that bonus a much more profound effect. So you say attack buffs make Slash of Eternity good? They make Fujiyama Volcano even better. Also FV is over twice as accurate and casts faster. :V Now it makes sense why I was seeing such high numbers with Mokou, but someone correct me if I'm reading this wrong. Mokou's the only physical character with such a high base power attack until Yuugi strolls in with her swagger and 800 power Knockout in Three Steps.
Paschal does way better at 275 base power per hit, but she can't get the cooldown there below 2 turns. So unless it consistently does three times the damage of FV (Not necessarily improbable, considering its crit rate), it's kind of a wash. But in the expansion Mokou can use Fujiyama Big Eruption every other turn (500 base power) and can use Final Finger (400 base power, defense piercing) during the cooldown. I can't see Youmu keeping pace with that without being lucky as hell with doublecasts. And if Mokou gets a crit there's no contest.
I don't even really think Youmu's better in randoms. She needs a turn to set up her stance to do any serious damage, and by that point Mokou has already blown something up or nailed something with Soul Finger/Final Finger. And she'll be tagging things with status effects all the time for free too! Can Youmu blind a Hydra? No. She can't.
Is Youmu a good character? No doubt. She's a great! But she isn't far and away the best character. Hell, a little while ago I saw a video of someone fighting the final boss, and buffed Sakuya (Vyse Sword, meaning no Exorcism) was keeping up pretty close with buffed Youmu's SoE (Doujigiri Yasutsuna) by using crappy-ass Full Moon Revenge. She's about as good as other heavy-hitters. Maybe slightly better against the final boss, assuming you're using Paschal, since other characters won't likely reach a high enough level to get a new big attack, but that's about it.
can't we just leave it at both of them being fabulous :V
That's what I'm saying!
It's just a shame nobody ever takes Mokou out of the commander slot.
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They're pretty vulnerable to instant death too- I gave my Aya an Instant Kill axe since Youmu/Sakuya were super strong already.
And, what, did they actually run out of lives? /headtilt Even if they did, there's the healing circles, so it wouldn't have to be a half-assed party... heheh, in any case, whatever works :3 Getting more stuff certainly never hurts.
Anyway, the damage calculating I was cut by is pretty bad :V No, attack buffs aren't three times stronger for Mokou then Youmu, that's silly- your math there is wrong. (If nothing else, it's because Mokou only has 1 hit getting powered up and Youmu has 3 to 5 hits becoming stronger) For that matter, you also don't keep in mind that Youmu gets huge damage boosts off of her criticals, which have several bonuses to damage and chance to occur from her weapons and pow trees and Manussya Stance buff. Also, Youmu gets a new nuke in Expansion to deal with Mokou's new Fujiyama Big Eruption (Which you can use every turn if you use a spear, which can be ideal sometimes depending on how early in the game you learn it)
Which one is better is a situational thing. The criticals are far and away what generally carries Youmu through, though, later in.
edit:AND WHY DOES IT SAY I'M USING WINDOWS NT :boggle:
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Anyway, the damage calculating I was cut by is pretty bad :V No, attack buffs aren't three times stronger for Mokou then Youmu, that's silly- your math there is wrong. (If nothing else, it's because Mokou only has 1 hit getting powered up and Youmu has 3 to 5 hits becoming stronger)
The first step is literally multiplying the character's attack value by the skill's power. If Byakuren is boosting a character's attack by 50, for all intents and purposes, Mokou is getting a bonus of 175 and Youmu is getting 52.5 out of it due to the difference between their skill's power. Youmu is hitting up to five times, yes, but the more important thing is that Mokou's one hit is influenced far less by the target's defense. Which I'll reiterate that all but two bosses in the last half of the game have significant amounts of, and even more do in the expansion.
Mokou comes out of the attack-defense part of the formula with a much higher base damage value, which means a much higher value to multiply by when slayers and elemental weaknesses come into the picture. Youmu gets many hits, but they're all reduced by defense. Five hits of 500 cut by half through defense ends up being noticeably less than one hit of 2500 cut by a tenth, and it's the number after the defense cut that gets multiplied by everything. The crit bonuses do a great job of boosting Youmu's damage afterwards, but you aren't realistically going to get a crit every hit, and each non-crit ends up being pretty insignificant damage. You're fighting the RNG on two fronts with SoE, which is pretty much the opposite of consistency in my book. I want to sit down and actually do some for-real full damage calculation, but I'm still a bit confused on where to look up some of this stuff.
Best-case scenario, I could see them doing similar damage, but even that's a little hard to believe with the evidence I've seen. I mean, my Satori was the same damage per turn on average against Anastasis as this Nicovideo guy's Youmu. Using Plasma Ball. And that attack sucks! High defense isn't really a good excuse there when almost every boss a few stages before and after have even higher defense.
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and what do you know of that guy's youmu? maybe she wore crap equipment because he didn't care enough to craft a proper weapon/armor/whatever for her. I don't know how much damage satori does with plasma ball for you, but I highly doubt that my level 53 youmu would do less, even if it's without any criticals. she did around 1200-1500 damage per hit with SoE against genji, and that without critical. and that 3, 4 or 5 times in one round ended the fight pretty damn quickly. I don't know WHAT you are doing with youmu in this game, but it's obviously wrong. same goes for that guy in the niconico video.
what I am doing now is saying that you're making youmu weaker than she is - not that she's doing more damage than mokou (though, in my case, it applies; unless the enemy's weak to fire and youmu doesn't have fire elemntal casted on her). Mokou's dealing fantastic damage, but she's just less varied than youmu and sakuya due to the element of her attacks. she becomes straight out useless against anything that resists fire, because honest man's death and iwakasa (or whatever it's called) just don't deal the damage necessary.
just watch me :V I'll clear the last fight without using mokou and hax my way with youmu because I am biased like that.
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and what do you know of that guy's youmu? maybe she wore crap equipment because he didn't care enough to craft a proper weapon/armor/whatever for her.
Oooooooorrrrrr I could know that the guy had the strongest pre-expansion katana equipped. Which is probably more effective than the Kusanagi for her overall, due to the bonuses to crit and the doublecast chance.
That's a thing I could know.
I'm not trying to say Youmu isn't capable of killing things. Just that she's not capable of doing 40k per attack with Slash of Eternity against high-defense bosses.
I'm willing to believe it if she can, but I need to see evidence for that. I've looked, and nothing has led me to believe that those numbers are possible, much less common. She's a pretty good character! She just doesn't tower above everyone else in the game like a lot of people I've come across seem to think.
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I'm looking at the damage formula on the Japanese wiki at the moment, and the first step is multiplying the user's attack by the skill's power. The target's defense is subtracted from that, then the skill's damage multiplier is applied.
I request more clarification on this. So you have user's attack multiplied by skill's power. Then you subtract defense. Then skill's damage multiplier? What is the skill's damage multiplier? How is this different from the skill power?
The following numbers I posted would be wrong if I don't understand how the formula works. In either case, I will post them so you can see why as attack power goes up it can only favor low attack power people regardless of the formula you use.
But I would like a more accurate formula, so I can show you the numbers. Because I can see that your math is wrong from your explanation.
The Anastasis example I gave earlier was with buffing. She's got significantly less defense than Biotopos, so what makes you think Youmu would suddenly do so much more damage there?
Huh, I have no idea how you are getting those numbers then. A buffed Youmu would not be doing a total of 2k damage to Anastasis. What kind of buff are you using? Byakuren's buff all and not her attack buff? Do you not have Induction at all? Does Youmu have no attack power at all?
The first step is literally multiplying the character's attack value by the skill's power. If Byakuren is boosting a character's attack by 50, for all intents and purposes, Mokou is getting a bonus of 175 and Youmu is getting 52.5 out of it due to the difference between their skill's power. Youmu is hitting up to five times, yes, but the more important thing is that Mokou's one hit is influenced far less by the target's defense. Which I'll reiterate that all but two bosses in the last half of the game have significant amounts of, and even more do in the expansion.
Your math is off. You put up the numbers and yet you do not see how this favors low attack users.
Pretend the enemies' defense is 100, pretend the buff is +100 power.
Let's do some math here, as you already put up all the multipliers necessary.
Fujiyama Volcano - 350 power
Slash of Eternity - 105 power, 3 to 5 hits.
Let's say Mokou has 370(Mokou has tree that gives 70 attack) attack power and Youmu has 340(Youmu has tree that gives 40 attack).
For Mokou, 370 * 3.5 - 100 = 1195
For Youmu, it would be 340 * 1.05 - 100 = 257 * 4(3 to 5 hits) = 1028.
Now with the buff you have 470 * 3.5 - 100 = 1545
For Youmu, it would be 440 * 1.05 - 100 = 362 * 4(3 to 5 hits) = 1448.
Let's use even higher attack. 670 vs 640.
670 * 3.5 - 100 = 2245.
640 * 1.05 - 100 = 572 * 4 = 2288.
BTW, if you do not already realized, if I do (670 - 100) * 3.5 vs (640 -100) * 1.05, the higher the first number is, the more it favors low multi-hit attacks.
The crit bonuses do a great job of boosting Youmu's damage afterwards, but you aren't realistically going to get a crit every hit, and each non-crit ends up being pretty insignificant damage.
I'll just assume you don't use Youmu much then. Depending on the weapon combination, her crit chances get very high. She has about a 75%(using Human Realm stance) crit chance late game. This is in addition to doing extra damage when landing crits. Unlike other characters, Youmu's crit is about 3x damage, instead of 2x damage.
I'm not trying to say Youmu isn't capable of killing things. Just that she's not capable of doing 40k per attack with Slash of Eternity against high-defense bosses.
And I am saying you are wrong. Did you know that the Terminator Mark II has even higher defense and you can do over 40k damage to that using Slash of Eternity?
Before counting it out? Why not just do 2 trials in game? Use Mokou with Fujiyama Volcano and compare it with Slash of Eternity. Both using the same weapons.
I use both Mokou and Youmu and as far as I can tell, Youmu's damage exceeds Mokou's.
Oooooooorrrrrr I could know that the guy had the strongest pre-expansion katana equipped.
You do know that the strongest katana is not the Doujigiri Yasutsuna right? However, it is the best katana to use against the final boss.
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Also, since it was brought up- I tried Sakuya as a damage dealer against the lunatic version of the final boss, using Elegant Murder Doll with the Ice Sword and Youmu using the Kusanagi (No slayer effect on that version). Youmu greatly outdamaged Sakuya with Paschal, despite having no slayer for advantage (Nor the Katana critical bonuses) and Sakuya using a powerful weapon with 100 exorcism and her best nuke. In exchange, Sakuya has stronger non-cards, but in this case...
Eventually I dumped Sakuya for Satori which worked out a million times better :V
Anyway, even if you go by pure numbers- the reason youmu is strong is a lot because, as I said, her criticals. Her bonuses to chance to deal them, multihits to increase chance of getting them on a regular basis, and the huge bonus to how much pure damage the critical itself does. That boosts the damage significantly.
And... starxsword didn't factor in that there is a 150% damage multiplier at the end of SoE hits, so the numbers should be 50% higher. Mokou, however, ALSO has additional damage in the fire-elemental portion of Fujiyama Volcano. I'm not sure how it's calculated though. I -think- it's a 100 power 150 multiplier fire element attack addition.
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Nope, It's 350% Attack factoring in enemy's MDEF with 100% Multiplier(Has nothing to do with Fujiyama Volcano having 100% Multiplier), with 150 elemental strength.
Double the damage normally. More than double if enemy has lower MDEF.
Hell, Mokou IS strong.
The thing I liked about Youmu was that she was the most MP-efficient physical attacker.
If you're in the later parts of the game, one turn for the stance is nothing too crippling.
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What is the skill's damage multiplier? How is this different from the skill power?
Scroll through this (http://www26.atwiki.jp/touhou_souzin/pages/236.html). The 攻撃力 column is the skill's power, and the 倍率 column is the damage multiplier.
Power gets directly multiplied by the character's attack before defense is involved, while the multiplier is used later in the formula along with all the other multipliers. Slayers, crit damage, etc. I believe the numbers are percentages, because multiplying 400 by 350 gets an impossibly large number when the damage formula doesn't seem to call for any huge division. But I'm still trying to work the whole thing out.
You'll notice that skills with power significantly higher than 100 are very rare, and are usually reserved for two bomb spellcards and last words. That's because they're influenced more directly by the user's offensive stat and tend to ramp up in damage much more quickly as the number raises. It's completely intentional that Mokou's spellcards all have high power. IIRC, Strawberry Bose themselves described her as dealing tons of damage, but with limited shots.
I have no idea how the elemental damage bonus is calculated, but FV gets that too and few bosses in the late game actually resist fire, so yeah.
The main point to take away is that Mokou's base power is much higher, which gives a much higher number for the various multipliers to work off of in the end.
A buffed Youmu would not be doing a total of 2k damage to Anastasis.
2k per crit, not 2k total. It would have been something like 6-7k average. Which is not bad at all, but less than what I pulled with Mokou.
Pretend the enemies' defense is 100, pretend the buff is +100 power.
100 defense is low. Biotopos has 500. The system is designed in such a way that attacks with higher base power will perform better against enemies with high defense, and vice-versa. It's intentional, and it's why axes are described as being better against high defense targets and spears as better against low defense. Their skills heavily favor power and multiplier, respectively.
It's why Youmu can't do crap to the Existence Hater, but Mokou knocks it down in 2-3 attacks. Which I did. I never even saw its super attack and it was awesome.
And I am saying you are wrong. Did you know that the Terminator Mark II has even higher defense and you can do over 40k damage to that using Slash of Eternity?
I'm assuming that involves a defense debuff? Terminator has famously low resistance (As in 0), so it's really easy to neuter its defenses. Biotopos has 80 resistance, which isn't insurmountable, but may take a few casts to get through. Final boss has 110, so good luck with that.
Meanwhile Mokou just doesn't care about defense.
Before counting it out? Why not just do 2 trials in game? Use Mokou with Fujiyama Volcano and compare it with Slash of Eternity. Both using the same weapons.
I use both Mokou and Youmu and as far as I can tell, Youmu's damage exceeds Mokou's.
If I still had a late-game save to test with, I wouldn't be making these posts. :V
And it's not like I'm anti-Youmu or anything. She was in my main dungeoning party for most of the game, and she was in my final boss party with the Doujigiri Yasutsuna. I was just never blown away by the damage she did like I was with Mokou.
Incidentally, Mokou ended up being stuck in the first phase party for the final boss, since I couldn't find anyone else that could end that fight before I died of boredom.
You do know that the strongest katana is not the Doujigiri Yasutsuna right? However, it is the best katana to use against the final boss.
Ah, yeah, sorry. I can't keep katana names straight.
But the point still stands that she had an excellent weapon, and the argument can still be made that it's comparable or better than the Kusanagi for what Youmu needs to do, even in that particular fight.
Incidentally, 1500 on Genji per hit without a crit sounds pretty extreme compared to what I'm seeing elsewhere. To the point that it's pretty hard to believe it's just a level/equipment difference. Are you sure you aren't playing on Easy mode, Sakurei? It's what Weekend defaults to initially, so you might be if you haven't thought to check.
Nope, It's 350% Attack factoring in enemy's MDEF with 100% Multiplier(Has nothing to do with Fujiyama Volcano having 100% Multiplier), with 150 elemental strength.
Double the damage normally. More than double if enemy has lower MDEF.
Hell, Mokou IS strong.
Aha, that's probably the main reason why I was seeing the damage difference, actually. Dealing with high defense better is definitely a factor, but essentially dealing double damage against anything that doesn't resist fire is huge.
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Power gets directly multiplied by the character's attack before defense is involved, while the multiplier is used later in the formula along with all the other multipliers. Slayers, crit damage, etc. I believe the numbers are percentages, because multiplying 400 by 350 gets an impossibly large number when the damage formula doesn't seem to call for any huge division. But I'm still trying to work the whole thing out.
I see, so there is Power of the skill and there is another hidden damage bonus? I did not go to the wiki because it is hard to navigate. I am just mentioning my experience from using both of them.
But yeah, you see what I am trying to say. As your attack goes up, Youmu's damage outpaces Mokou. This is mainly because defense does nerf quite a bit of Youmu's damage.
And yes, Mokou does quite good damage with her Fujiyama Volcano, better than Youmu on high defense targets, and that skill is very useful. I mainly use it against higher defense enemies.
Scroll through this. The 攻撃力 column is the skill's power, and the 倍率 column is the damage multiplier.
I can read a bit of kanji and hiragana, but not nearly enough to read some of the other parts. Some of the stuff there seems interesting and it would be cool to know.
What about 強度125? Does that modify damage too? What is that? Google translate says strength. Is that how much the skill is affected by the land level?
I'm assuming that involves a defense debuff? Terminator has famously low resistance (As in 0), so it's really easy to neuter its defenses. Biotopos has 80 resistance, which isn't insurmountable, but may take a few casts to get through. Final boss has 110, so good luck with that.
Yes and no. You could lower their defense, but not necessary. The thing is Sanae's Wind of Miracles is stackable. So, you can stack that as much as you like. So, doing stupid amounts of damage is not out of the question.
From the png, I saw Byakuren and Sanae in that group, so I am unsure if Wind of Miracles was stacked accidentally or on purpose when Mokou did about 40k damage. Byakuren can re-apply the attack buff before it ends, so Sanae's Wind of Miracles buff to attack will just keep going up. Normally, the stacking ends when the buff ends. So, you have to re-stack the whole thing again.
Incidentally, Mokou ended up being stuck in the first phase party for the final boss, since I couldn't find anyone else that could end that fight before I died of boredom.
I use magic on the first fight. The second fight, I had both Mokou and Youmu in the party, but I did not have the Kusanagi when I fought the final boss. 30 Iron is kinda on the high side...
Hell, Mokou IS strong.
I agree, the only thing I disagree with is that she is somehow consistently outdamaging Youmu, which I do not observe in my games.
Incidentally, 1500 on Genji per hit without a crit sounds pretty extreme compared to what I'm seeing elsewhere. To the point that it's pretty hard to believe it's just a level/equipment difference. Are you sure you aren't playing on Easy mode, Sakurei? It's what Weekend defaults to initially, so you might be if you haven't thought to check.
Does easy mode even affect bosses? I thought it only affected enemies?
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強度, or 属性強度, is what I usually translate as 'elemental strength'.(I'm sure TheNewGuy found a better term for it, but I forgot.)
Most notable in Nitori's Commander Bonus.
Simply put, it amplifies the damage change from affinities.
For a simple example, consider a FIR attack that would deal 1000 damage.
A enemy with ◎FIR(%25) will receive 1000-750 = 250 damage.
A enemy with ?FIR(%300) will receive 1000+2000 = 3000 damage.
If there's a elemental strength +10%
A enemy with ◎FIR(%25) will receive 1000-750*1.1 = 175 damage.
A enemy with ?FIR(%300) will receive 1000+2000*1.1 = 3200 damage.
(example from JPN wiki FAQ)
If an enemy with ◎FIR is hit by Fujiyama Volcano(+FIR multiplier 100%, elemental strength 150%), the additional damage will deal 0 damage. (100-75*1.5 < 0)
That's the one of the reasons why Nitori shouldn't be commander when hunting for yukkuri.
The penalty for hitting resistant enemies doesn't exist in 東方幻想魔録~Devil of Decline. Says some reliable source.
Speaking of other games, Ichigobose made a site for the new game about 9 days ago. Haven't seen any kind of that games to judge properly.
About Easy Mode, I think it effects bosses.
The official site mentions that you can go through the stage with Easy Mode and play the Bosses on normal difficulty.
Sorta implies that Easy Mode do effect Bosses.
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Speaking of other games, Ichigobose made a site for the new game about 9 days ago. Haven't seen any kind of that games to judge properly.
It seems that it's going to be vaguely along the lines of either Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh, but we only have a couple screenshots to evaluate from. link! (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&u=http://wp.gensoukyou.org/tcm/archives/category/%25E3%2582%25B9%25E3%2582%25AF%25E3%2583%25AA%25E3%2583%25BC%25E3%2583%25B3%25E3%2582%25B7%25E3%2583%25A7%25E3%2583%2583%25E3%2583%2588&usg=ALkJrhhmuhfX_W4cK5x8x5Y_wSS1LzDmGg) It's interesting how it uses DoD graphics for everything apart from enemy monsters, which are GoS-style; there's even an entirely new enemy there. (Don't be confused with the DoD ghost; it's because it's a enemy "character" and not a summoned monster) Next update on Dec 13, hopefully it'll have a video!
About Mokou in the first party, she annihilates Lithos if you have a spear with exorcism, so totally worth it. Otherwise she's probably still best on Lithos so she can hit the fire -and- spear weakness, especially due to that 160% (pow tree bonus) elemental strength on fire. If you have Fujiyama Big Eruption, she'll hit like 20k with Sanae buffs and the good attack items on the second party (e.g. playing smartly) but obviously anyone who is SANE will not have FBE yet. It was nice to reliably beat them before Anastasis ever reappears when trying to beat MURDER GODDESSES though.
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Why do so many people flinch at the idea of using three different parties in stage 18? Even if you're somewhat underleveled it shouldn't be a problem at all, because of how the enemies are arranged in it, allowing you to exploit their weakness with basically any setup you want. As long as you have enough equipment, good enough skills and power points nothing should really pose a threat, especially not to force you to backtrack all the damn time. Unless you somehow derped HARD and everyone but Reimu/Marisa/Sanae/Aya is at level 1.
For example, the left path has status effects and flayers. Bring Sanae there. The right side has enemies weak to light and elec magic. Bring Reimu and some other spellcaster there. The middle path has a it of everything, so you bring your strongest attackers there.
On a somewhat unrelated note, the best thing about Anastasis is having Satori with Mad Thunder.
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On a somewhat unrelated note, the best thing about Tenshi/Matsuba/Anastasis/FinalBoss is having Satori with Mad Thunder.
seriously, I cannot stress enough how fabulous that move is (Although on the final boss you can also have Medoroa for lol I just did 9k damage)
also hands down the best attack against Terminator, which is something you'll want to kill many times, ESPECIALLY if you want to grind out some exp in expansion- and you want Satori for that fight anyway because Collapse Art lands -very- reliably, as opposed to Debilitate which misses half the time.
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@Serela: Those GoS monster sprites for Phantasmal Summoners are really, really jarring :/
The game's premise looks very interesting, but I do hope they do something about the pixelated sprites; they don't fit the graphics of DoD's backgrounds very well. I mean, graphics ARE secondary to gameplay, but all the same...
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whoops I indeed have been playing easy mode all this time. no need to change that now, though. in the next playthrough :V
on another note, I managed to get through stage 18. also took a few shots at the bosses. first one is weak to fire, second to thunder, but I couldn't figure out the third yet. considering they're all water typed youkai, if it's either fire not thunder it's nothing, but that would suck.
I experiemented a bit with the boss-fights and can save 2 people in the first by using sakuya/mokou. strife world to stop the healing and fujiyama vulcano for 6000 damage per hit. takes me 4 turns or so to win :V that may actually be a little slow considering that she can instant kill me at any given time with 1000 needles. but there's nothing I can do :V
second fight has byakuren/youmu/alice/nitori wombo-combo. being weak to thunder makes the SoE with electrical attribute pretty damn obvious. I got a lucky hit once and did 25k overall :V like, all 5 hits were criticals. took me by surprise, to say the least.
the last fight seems by far the hardest. if she really doesn't have any weaknesses, I'm stuck with doing just around 1000 per hit and it feels like that would take forever. I can probably do a thing or two, but...eh...if i get countered with every hit due to not knowing she can actually do that, patchouli can't take shit for damage. so yeah, I'm actually thinking about maybe re-arranging the 2nd and 3rd fight to...something. though, from my very first attempts, which had nitori in the last fight, it seems like kagami has fucking high defense. so yeah, I actually need my magical attackers here. maybe I will put alice in this fight, though.
I might make this 5/5 instead of using aya as a commander in this last fight. that way, I can use shinigami formation to resist instant death in the 2nd fight. though, the question is who to put away from the last fight-team to fill the numbers.
I hate these kinda things. just let me use my standard party :V
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Last fight has no weaknesses, and has very high p.def, and can use moves to counter all physical attacks or to nullify physical damage sometimes. However, most of her attacks shouldn't be very scary if you prepare a little. It's okay if it takes awhile.
Second fight people tend to give Nitori a gun to use Element Bullet to make up for an absence of Byakuren, although if you're using her, then there you go. Octopus Maelstrom tends to be the big thing you have to work around for that fight, as if Water land is neutral or active ,then it can cause instant death- and the chance gets higher with the land increasing. Even if you absorb it via Alice bombs, it'll still inflict Instant Death.
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The Instant Death in the second party can be shut off if the land is put to FIR. It still hurts a lot, though. Just use Patchouli.
The 'increases chances according to land' part is new to me. I never let her, so I can't verify anything. Might be true, might be not.
The third boss has a exclusive learnable attack (Hyper Fang Crush), so try to learn it here.
The other alternative is quite annoying. Just be glad that learning rate was boosted to 100%.
Quite reliable for a multi-hit attack. Might need them when you have to Control Dragons. Which is another story.
Defeating this boss after learning, then losing to another boss is acceptable.
I, myself, used Alice for the third party, and 'tried' to evade the second boss's attacks, back in the days of a no-synthesis run.
Satori+Sanae with Hydro Camouflage still won't let you evade everything, but it still is quite a lot.
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Yes and no. You could lower their defense, but not necessary. The thing is Sanae's Wind of Miracles is stackable. So, you can stack that as much as you like. So, doing stupid amounts of damage is not out of the question.
Oh, if you're using what's presumably a glitch to stack buffs in order to get huge numbers on Youmu, then that point is kind of moot. At that point, anyone could do big damage, so it kind of doesn't really matter. :V
If I actually did that with Mokou in the Biotopos fight, it would have easily been a oneshot. I didn't know the glitch existed back then, so I definitely didn't recast the spell for seemingly no reason. It was a crit, though. Youmu's not the only one who can do that, and it's not even all that hard for other characters to do if you're using Youmu as the commander. Might as well use her for something if she's not fighting the boss!
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The third boss has a exclusive learnable attack (Hyper Fang Crush), so try to learn it here.
don't worry about this, it's not particularly great (It's nice if you're using a physical satori but it's not a reason you'd actually do that- it's only a slightly better Samidare Slash)
Spoony:It's not -that- powerful of a glitch to abuse :V (If it's unintended, which isn't clear) It does notably increase how much damage you do, but it's not like some kind of god mode button.
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If Youmu's punching through 1111 defense and still hitting for 40k with Slash of Eternity, yes, it definitely is that powerful.
I mean, you can do it endlessly until attack caps out, assuming there is a cap, by refreshing the buff with Byakuren before it wears off and continuing the WoM spam afterwards.
I find it really hard to believe it was actually intentional, considering how high you can push things with it.
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It caps at 3 uses, and you can't refresh it because Sanae is the one who has it, meaning it will unavoidably end in 7 turns- which, if you don't have Sanae's ultimate snake on, means that you can only get the third cast up the turn it's wearing off- and that, most of the time, it won't be stacked enough to be significantly stronger then normal.
Now, after you get the ultimate snake is a little different in terms of how much you can have it up, but it still caps at 3 times and wears off a few turns later.
Besides, in order for Youmu to do that, you'd definitely be relying on the power of ultimate-grade weapons, enchantments (like hitting the elec weakness), and DEF debuffs. And I somehow doubt it'd be SoE hitting that much, but, if you got lucky with criticals, I suppose that's not too strange sounding. Satori can hit 30k+ with Mad Thunder and Patch does similarly with her strongest elec bomb, anyway.
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didn't learn it due to never having it seen, really. after preparing properly, I have to say the 2nd fight was the hardest. while pretty short, she did a lot of damage and that quickly, so...uhm...yeah. I still outdamaged her with delicious youmu :V
third fight dragged on for a bit, due to not having any weaknesses and stuff. currently plowing my way through stage 19. that COULD take a while. eh
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It caps at 3 uses, and you can't refresh it because Sanae is the one who has it, meaning it will unavoidably end in 7 turns- which, if you don't have Sanae's ultimate snake on, means that you can only get the third cast up the turn it's wearing off- and that, most of the time, it won't be stacked enough to be significantly stronger then normal.
Read this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13298.msg893605.html#msg893605) again.
The effect that boosts variety effects an ally uses after WoM is cast is capped at three.
The effect that boosts variety effects already in place can go on forever.
It's the latter that's going to make you do absurd amounts of damage, and Byakuren can refresh the buff so that it doesn't go away, and then Sanae can potentially boost it even further.
Definitely intentional. :V
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wait whuh
oh wow
wowwww
I missed the final Acala Sword test the first few times I read that because I saw the x5 test doing the exact same damage and etc
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Oh, if you're using what's presumably a glitch to stack buffs in order to get huge numbers on Youmu, then that point is kind of moot. At that point, anyone could do big damage, so it kind of doesn't really matter.
Seems like you misunderstand my post. Since the screen shot is of the party having both Byakuren and Sanae in it with Mokou, the glitch may have been used, whether intentional or not.
This is also why I wanted to do a real test with Youmu using the Turtle smasher vs Biotopos. Youmu's Slash of Eternity has defense ignoring properties and Turtle Smasher, being an axe, also has defense ignoring properties. I don't know if they stack or not, but that will matter.
If Youmu's punching through 1111 defense and still hitting for 40k with Slash of Eternity, yes, it definitely is that powerful.
A lot of Youmu's attacks ignore defense. It has defense ignore 35, which I assume to mean it ignores 65% of the enemies defense. You could correct me if I got this part wrong. 1111 defense goes down to 390 defense. I could be reading this wrong, but I am basing this off the other skills that completely ignore defense and they get labelled defense ignore 0. Hitting 40k against the Terminator is feasible.
@Mokou and Youmu's numbers: Now that I got their numbers clearly, I understand how the calculations work.
Mokou's Fujiyama Volcano: Power - 3.5, Multiplier - 1.01, Fire Element Damage added - 100%, Fire Element Strength - 150%.
If we assume Mokou to have 470 attack power, you get these numbers on enemies with no resistance to fire.
470 * 3.5 * 1.01 = 1295 + (1295 * 1.5) fire damage = 4154
This also means that against enemies resistant to Fire, Mokou's damage is greatly nerfed. Since more than half the damage comes from Fire. At least according to what is being said.
Youmu's Slash of Eternity: Power - 1.05, Multiplier - 1.5, defense ignore - 35, 3 to 5 hits, 100 critical (I think this means +100% to critical hit chance, but I don't know).
If we assume Youmu to have 440 attack power, you get these numbers.
440 * 1.05 = 462 * 1.5 = 693 * 4 = 2772. Criticals were not used for the math. Remember, Youmu's critical hit damage is x3 or so and other people's critical hit damage is x2 or so.
These numbers favor Youmu's damage output for most boss encounters when you include critical hits, which Youmu does a lot more than other characters. This includes Mokou with the Phoenix Hand, which has +20 critical hit.
I have also tested this against the Godeater who has 0 defense and 0 m defense, weak to fire 2x, and it looks about right.
Mokou's regular damage was about 1200. Mokou Big Fujiyama Volcano was about 25k. The numbers say it should be about 27k, but that's close enough.
@3 party split: Yeah, I would split to 3 parties of 4. I generally keep a caster in every party and Sanae goes with the party that has enemies with a bunch of status effects.
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(I think this means +100% to critical hit chance, but I don't know).
she definitely doesn't hit criticals 100% of the time with SoE, so :V A 10% boost wouldn't seem too weird, but... DoD is the game that does x/1000 formulas, not GoS. I don't know how critical chance works though, apart from POT boosting it. I kind of recall it being POT/2=base crit rate, but, don't quote me on that- I mean, my characters with 50 pot don't feel like they get a critical 1/4th of the time >_>
Also, Reincarnation Slash has "150 critical", so, it can't just be a flat percent.
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what is a good tactic against anasticia? you know, stage 19 boss.
from what I have seen, I can count out sakuya, mokou and youmu due to massive defense. so I have to go at it with magical attacks. she's weak to thunder (nothing else from what I have seen), so patchy and marisa probably need to be in. I could probably use nitori for 2x chaser attacks, but I'm actually not too sure about how well it works. I definitely need sanae for healing purposes and stuff, so I have 1 slot open. who do I put in there? Alice? I hevn't tested it yet, so I don't know how much damaged would be absorbed by alice's shields, but I presume not too much. I think patchy would still be one shotted.
oh yeah, for reference: patchouli does about 4000 per hit and marisa's around 3000, I believe it was. with buffs <.< so yeah, help?
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Sakuya/Mokou/Youmu can still work, but a magical approach is still highly effective itself, so yeah. Chasers also work pretty well in conjunction (they ignore some def plus nitori has the massive weakness bonus damage)
Make sure to use Patchy's elec boost field.
And, Alice works fine. Just make sure to give her blunt resist.
Bring some of Sanae's elec noncards. When she has nothing else to do, it'll give Nitori another attack to chase.
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Use Byakuren to buff Anastatis with Elemental Weapon: Earth. She can resist it, but if you're pushing the land toward elec that'll mitigate her damage.
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An interesting strategy, although you should be able to take her attacks with Parrar and Sanae's defense buff, at least considering you're on Easy Mode. If you do decide to bring Byakuren though... no reason not to :3
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These numbers favor Youmu's damage output for most boss encounters when you include critical hits, which Youmu does a lot more than other characters. This includes Mokou with the Phoenix Hand, which has +20 critical hit.
Here's the thing you aren't considering: When you start to bring other multipliers into the picture (I.E. Slayers, hitting weaknesses, physical/elemental damage boosting equipment, land levels, etc) they increase the larger raw numbers by a much greater amount.
It's a simple test, but just try multiplying the numbers you gave by 1.5 to see what I mean.
Mokou goes to 6231, while Youmu goes to 4158. What used to be a 1382 point damage gap is now 2073 points. As you add in more and larger multipliers, the gap only increases. Mokou also has access to several other options to boost damage that Youmu doesn't. For example, throwing on a Vulcan Amulet and having Patchy lay down Hot Spot Vulcan should significantly boost her damage, though it will do nothing to help Youmu. IIRC, the Sword tree also gives a boost to elemental and slayer damage, which Youmu probably won't get due to the Katana's crit bonuses being more valuable to her damage.
And while Youmu does get higher crit damage, Mokou's crit damage is still very significant. Especially when the larger base damage value means Mokou is getting more bang for her crits to begin with. Youmu would have to get two crits every attack to match the damage bonus Mokou gets from one, without any additional damage multipliers. As the multipliers increase, the amount of crits Youmu would need to keep up will also increase. With that one 1.5 multiplier example earlier? Youmu needs all four hits to be crits in order to keep up, and there are a lot more multipliers involved in the actual calculation than that. Again, it isn't hard for her to crit with Youmu as the commander.
Being ineffective against fire resistant enemies hurts a bit, but honestly? There aren't very many of those anyway. Anastasis is the only boss that applies to in the main game after the point where you'd reasonably have FV (Which my Mokou was still outdamaging that Nicovideo guy's Youmu against, as a reminder.). There are a few more in the expansion, but FV is still effective more often than not.
And more importantly, Mokou is using FV literally. every. single. turn. She's not going to be getting a crit every turn, but she doesn't have to waste her time throwing out a lesser attack between nukes. This is huge, because it literally means that unless Youmu consistently does twice FV's damage with SoE, it is worse, barring the rare situations where you don't have opportunities to attack on consecutive turns (I.E. Final expansion boss, but you wouldn't be using FV or SoE there to begin with.). And I'm not getting the impression that she's capable of that.
what is a good tactic against anasticia? you know, stage 19 boss.
Weren't you going to beat that fight with Youmu? She's got lower defense than Genji. Man up. :V
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uh, I said I'd fight the last boss with youmu. but the thought of doing every boss with youmu (uh, there're only 3 left) intrigues me. though, after trying once, I have to say that youmu doesn't do the average damage patchouli and marisa can bring :V on average. she very well may do a lot more, but not a basis I like to call consistent.
I AM TOO BIASED TO SAY NO TO THIS, BUT IT FEELS LIKE IT WILL MAKE THE FIGHT UNNECESSARILY HARDER.
if I choose to do it with youmu, I'll record it, in any case.
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uh, I said I'd fight the last boss with youmu.
but... what
anastasis was the boss i was always talking about in the comparisons
everyone always fights the final boss with youmu anyway
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everyone always fights the final boss with youmu anyway
Even on Man Mode?
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oh, I didn't know that, duh. alright, challenge accepted?
I was thinking that maybe I'm just a little low-levelled. I mean, marisa get's 2.5x the base experience and with a few exceptions (sanae and reimu, to be exact, and youmu ofc) everyone gets 2x the exp. sanae and reimu get the exact base and youmu gets what, a third? or was it half? I forgot. so yeah, maybe levelling a tiny bit helps already.
so, I defeated my first stray yukkuri (they always, ALWAYS run away). 10k experience, really? that's bullshit.
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Elemental Weapons are NOT affected by land power, except for certain +[Element] attacks. Just so you know. Really common misconception.
CRITs are x/1000.
About Elemental Strength, It's just a modifier for the change in damage from enemy's resistance/weakness.
The damage will not change against neutral enemies, whatever the elemental strength is.
About Wind of Miracles, if the buff itself is overwritten, it is reset to whatever it would have been.
About Hyper Fang Crush and Controlling the Dragon,
Hyper Fang Crush is vastly superior compared to other multi-hit attacks Satori has. Useful for 'trying' to control the Dragon.
That said, I think Sakuya with Demon Tooth will do much better. Never thought about that. Although she'll need sky-high IND.
About Man Mode, 'My master never spoke of supernatural phenomenon'.
About Stray Yukkuri, what's the problem?
Trying to get the item drop is rather annoying, but Zera Beetles are even more annoying.
At least 'Insta-save anywhere' works on Yukkuri. (The plural rule for Japanese words really don't work with certain adverbs, do they.)
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Elemental Weapons are NOT affected by land power, except for certain +[Element] attacks. Just so you know. Really common misconception.
CRITs are x/1000.
But the fire part of Fujiyama Volcano is, right? So as you use it and raise the fire land level, that part will get more powerful?
About Elemental Strength, It's just a modifier for the change in damage from enemy's resistance/weakness.
The damage will not change against neutral enemies, whatever the elemental strength is.
Are the boosts from equipment and Patchy's fields considered Elemental Strength, or something else? They aren't described with the same kanji.
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Hyper Fang Crush is vastly superior compared to other multi-hit attacks Satori has. Useful for 'trying' to control the Dragon.
That said, I think Sakuya with Demon Tooth will do much better. Never thought about that. Although she'll need sky-high IND.
The issue is, you can apply and then remove it in the same attack if you use a multiple-hit. Hyper Fang Crush has a better high-hit chance then Samidare Slash iirc, but their damage formula is the exact same, isn't it? Still, having a another Samidare Slash isn't bad.
With the Lolicon Eye in my first play of the game, I've seen many times where I use Samidare Slash and "Charm" appears twice because I inflicted and removed it at the same time.
Sakuya is a worse idea because it's hard to get the IND, and... Satori can still function fine with a dagger, but Sakuya is kind of crippled. Or Satori can use Es, which is already a great weapon for her anyway. (You don't get Dagger's success rate boost, but it has 17% more base chance on the Es anyway- so you don't really lose anything, and get IND out of the eye) Using Sakuya instead is just kind of... why not Satori? Using both is possible but risky, because the second attacker can accidentally remove a control hit...
(Granted, they won't really be dealing damage anyway, but if you're controlling the dragon you're gonna have Satori there, since why would you do it except for Learning? I guess if you really wanted Satori to be actively doing things you could give someone the demon tooth, and Sakuya is at least durable, unlike many other knife users. Sanae/Byakuren would have lots of free turns I suppose... and needs IND anyway.)
I don't know about Patchouli's fields, because I've never used them outside of a boss that's weak against the prescribed element :S
edit:I almost forgot. Part of the reason to use Satori is her POW tree for +50% activation. Ahaha base 100% hit rate and all her IND self-specific gear. I'm not sure how full star resist affects it though, so maybe the additional base rate doesn't matter? *Unsure*
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But the fire part of Fujiyama Volcano is, right? So as you use it and raise the fire land level, that part will get more powerful?
Ah, strange wording on my part. I believe not. It will be affected by land only if Mokou received attributes from Byakuren.
Fujiwara Volcano : about 5000 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + WTR Land extreme : about 5000 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + FIR Land extreme : about 5000 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + FIR attribute : about 5000 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + FIR attribute + WTR Land extreme : about 1800 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + FIR attribute +FIR Land extreme : about 7500 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + WTR attribute : about 5000 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + WTR attribute + WTR Land extreme : about 7500 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + WTR attribute + FIR Land extreme : about 1800 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + ELE attribute : about 5000 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + ELE attribute + ELE Land extreme : about 7500 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + ETH attribute + ELE Land extreme : about 1800 damage.
Fujiwara Volcano + ETH attribute + FIR,ELE Land extreme : about 1800 damage.
Final Finger dealt about 3500 damage in the 9 conditions.
Sakuya's Final Tier Weapon(+WTR additional damage) dealt about 1250 in the 9 conditions.
Works similarly with Nitori's +FIR and +WTR skills, does not work on +MYS skills.
Er, the results are not what I expected. I guess the JPN wiki was wrong about only one attribute working.
You get the idea. The damage is boosted if the skill has [Add Element] and the 'newly given attribute' matches the land. Usually.
I'm not sure which part of the damage is affected by land, but I think it's both parts altogether.
By the way, why does Byakuren's Elemental Weapon increase FIR Land?
Are the boosts from equipment and Patchy's fields considered Elemental Strength, or something else? They aren't described with the same kanji.
Something else. It's just simple damage increase and decrease vs. exaggeration of resistance/weakness.
About star resistance and those kind of things for status, it's like '95% of perfectly evading', and you'll never surpass 5% of inflicting.
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That's really interesting! It explains why having max water level didn't seem to hurt Mokou's damage output against Biotopos.
I just did some testing a little bit ago, and it seems like the boosts to Fire damage will still work after Elemental Weapons are cast, even though the land damage bonus makes it seem kind of like the attack is converted entirely to the new element. So in other words, Hot Spot Vulcan will pretty significantly boost damage (Test FV went from 1000 to 1300 with Star Sword cast), which is actually pretty damn useful against things that have a weakness to light/dark (And thus no Patchyfield to take advantage of normally). Would have been useful knowledge to have the first time I fought Genji. Might have been able to drop him in one good crit. :V
Now I need to figure out if it's better to boost fire damage or a weakness. I'd assume focusing on boosting damage against the weakness is better, but the mechanics of this attack have surprised me enough already that I can't be sure. Maybe boost both? It wouldn't really surprise me if a Vulcan Amulet raised damage more than a Rage Choker. It'll be a while before I actually have the tools to test this fully, though. I ended up Cheat Engining characters' levels up in a backup early-game save to do the initial testing, and I don't know how to use the program well enough to make it give me items I don't already have.
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so I heard you like youmu?
http://www.abload.de/img/unbenannt9lpo7.jpg
yes. yes I do.
stage 20 is awesome, btw. currently fighting my way through.
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I've finally returned to this game after, what, a couple months? I may have played a little a couple weeks ago, but I wasn't really into it.
Since yesterday, I've recruited back Sanae, Reisen, Sakuya, Patchoulli, Byakuren, Remilia, Alice, and Marisa. Just need to get Youmu and Satori and I'll be going after Stage 22.
P.S. Marisa and Alice were difficult. I managed to barely kill them with Lithos alone (everyone else? Four words: Modified Straw Doll Kamikaze). :V
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she definitely doesn't hit criticals 100% of the time with SoE
No, not 100%, I think it is just +100%. So, if base critical hit chance is 5%, it will be 10%. Or maybe it is as Sungho put it? +10% critical hit chance, since it counts by the x/1000? I don't know how it works, but everyone knows that Youmu's critical hit rate is insane. Reincarnation Slash crits like more than 75% of the time.
Here's the thing you aren't considering: When you start to bring other multipliers into the picture (I.E. Slayers, hitting weaknesses, physical/elemental damage boosting equipment, land levels, etc) they increase the larger raw numbers by a much greater amount.
Taking those into account do not make a difference. Adding an x2 multiplier to 2 equations give you the same results, just bigger numbers.
I was simplifying it to show you numbers and why it favors Youmu.
The issue here is Slayers, hitting weakness, etc. all use a multiplier. This means Mokou will not have an edge over Youmu or vice versa, because this is done at the same time as the other damage multipliers. The math says it won't make a difference, so I don't need to take into consideration of slayer effect, because the boost would be the same for both.
If Youmu does 1000 damage and the slayer effect is x2 damage. Youmu will do 2000 damage. The same would be true for Mokou. There is nothing that you need to add here. That said, if you can provide me proof otherwise, I will gladly do the math for everything, slayers, elemental effects, etc.
Mokou goes to 6231, while Youmu goes to 4158. What used to be a 1382 point damage gap is now 2073 points.
Since it is a multiplier effect, it makes no difference. On critical hit, 6231 x 2 = 12,462. On critical hit Youmu's 4158 x 3 = 12,474. That larger damage gap doesn't change a thing. Now let me talk about critical hits and more on multipliers...
And while Youmu does get higher crit damage, Mokou's crit damage is still very significant. Especially when the larger base damage value means Mokou is getting more bang for her crits to begin with. Youmu would have to get two crits every attack to match the damage bonus Mokou gets from one, without any additional damage multipliers. As the multipliers increase, the amount of crits Youmu would need to keep up will also increase. With that one 1.5 multiplier example earlier? Youmu needs all four hits to be crits in order to keep up, and there are a lot more multipliers involved in the actual calculation than that. Again, it isn't hard for her to crit with Youmu as the commander.
Yes, Mokou's crit damage is significant, but she doesn't have bonus to damage. I believe it is the standard 2x damage. Also, we are talking about multipliers, having higher base damage doesn't change a multiplier. I am not sure why you are using that as an argument.
I think your math is off if you think having a higher base changes anything. Youmu will need the exact same number of critical hits in scenario A as in scenario B, because nothing changed. All you added was a multiplier to both equations, which brings you back to square one.
Let's use your example and my example at the same time, I will put them side by side.
Youmu's damage 693 per hit. 3 to 5 hits.
Youmu on crit 2079. With 4 critical hits, it is 8316.
Mokou's damage 4154 total.
Mokou on critical hit 8308.
On average, you would probably see (4154 x 10) + (8308 x 2) for Mokou. 58156. Less than that, since this means Mokou has a 16.6% chance of critical hitting, which I don't think she has.
For Youmu, you will see (693, 2079, 693, 2079) = 5544. Over the course of 12 hits, you get about 66582. Youmu has around 50% chance to land criticals as far as I can tell. Higher if she has the +crit katanas.
Now, using higher numbers with the 1.5 multiplier.
Youmu's damage is now 1039.5. In 4 hits, it is 4158.
For Youmu, you will see (1039.5, 3118.5, 1039.5, 3118.5). 8316. Over the course of 12 attacks, 99792.
Mokou's damage is now 6231.
Damage over the course of 12 attacks, 6231 x 10 + 12432 x 2, you get about 87174.
If you look at the multiplier difference between the two, it is exactly the same. Youmu will do 14% more damage.
Anastasis is the only boss that applies to in the main game after the point where you'd reasonably have FV (Which my Mokou was still outdamaging that Nicovideo guy's Youmu against, as a reminder.). There are a few more in the expansion, but FV is still effective more often than not.
And I am saying that there is someting wrong with it if Mokou is out damaging Youmu. The equations do not add up. Mokou only has a 3.5 power, Anastasis' resistance to fire is very high. Youmu has a 1.05 power, in addition to 1.50 multiplier and gets to hit 3 to 5 times. The math says the person using Youmu does not have enough attack.
This is huge, because it literally means that unless Youmu consistently does twice FV's damage with SoE, it is worse, barring the rare situations where you don't have opportunities to attack on consecutive turns
Are we trying to compare overall damage? Because I have already said, against high defense enemies, don't use Youmu. Go with magic, or whatever, you have a lot of characters and options. It takes setup to get it going, so unless you are in for a VERY long fight, don't do it. Slash of Eternity is not very effective if you do not have sufficient attack to override their defense. This means you have to give up on defensive accessories to put up numbers, which I don't tend to do.
If you plan to use Youmu, make sure you have a buffer, otherwise her damage is mediocre against high defense enemies. If Byakuren wasn't there to buff Youmu for the final boss fight, her damage would be underwhelming.
Elemental Weapons are NOT affected by land power, except for certain +[Element] attacks. Just so you know. Really common misconception.
This is good to know. I had no idea that Elemental weapons are not affected by land power. So Dual Blade for instance is not affected by land power, but Byakuren's buff is. This is interesting.
CRITs are x/1000.
Does this apply to all crits? What about weapons that say critical +20, like Mokou's Phoenix Hand. Or Youmu's +10 critical in her katana tree? That is still normal right and not x/1000?
@Youmu vs Anastasis - She has pretty high defense, so if you want to do real damage, you will probably need to use + attack items and put whatever spare points in the tree that ups attack power and strength. You should also use Byakuren with 100+ Induction to buff. You may need to use Alice to tank for you. Usually I just go with spell casters.
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The elemental weapon + damage influenced by Land seems to only work on 'certain' 'skill's.
I think it was a mistake on the damage formula.
I'm not sure how the Crit works. The only thing I know is that the ones in the skills description are permil.
Although I'm inclined to think that the ones in the weapons and the skill trees are flat percent increases.
Youmu's Human Realm Stance has a +33% Crit with the ACC increase. Mentioned that it is a separate factor.
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Since it is a multiplier effect, it makes no difference. On critical hit, 6231 x 2 = 12,462. On critical hit Youmu's 4158 x 3 = 12,474. That larger damage gap doesn't change a thing.
Youmu's crit damage is 2.66, actually. Bonus of .33 in the stance tree and Katana tree. Looks like Youmu's crit is smaller to me!
And, no. The damage gap did exactly what I said it did. Youmu needs more crits to approach Mokou's level of damage. As the multipliers increase, the gap increases further and at some point five crits won't be enough to catch up with Mokou's crit. And the gap will still increase beyond that, up until Mokou hits the damage cap. That's mostly a hypothetical situation, though. I don't expect the multipliers to ever reach high enough for that to happen with these base numbers.
EDIT: No wait, you're right. the proportional damage never really increases between the two in this situation. I don't know where that came from. I guess I was just trying to get across that the damage difference between the two steadily increases, and my tired brain took it in a weird direction. Basically: Youmu has to get perfect hits and crits to even really keep ahead of Mokou, due to Mokou being able to attack every turn. Additionally, if Mokou ever gets a crit, Youmu's toast.
I made a spreadsheet. (http://i.imgur.com/xQmTz.jpg) I included the damage difference, so you can see how the gap widens as it goes.
And a graph (http://i.imgur.com/O9gmw.png), because I don't get to make those very often. It's predictably linear, so Youmu will never overtake Mokou with the scenario you've provided.
And the kicker? This comparison is overly generous towards Youmu, and Mokou still comes out on top.
Youmu doesn't benefit from land levels or +fire damage accessories or fields (Unless against a fire-weak boss), but anything that can benefit Youmu will also benefit Mokou. Youmu will not get as many damage multipliers as Mokou. Ever.
But the bigger thing is that a significant chunk of a large multiplier comes from using a slayer weapon. Moving away from Katanas drops Youmu's crit damage down to 2.33, as well as gives her a hit to overall crit chance. Not to mention how all these hypothetical numbers are against an enemy with 0 defense, which you yourself have admitted to be the best kind of enemy for her to face.
DOUBLE EDIT: You take Youmu down to 2.33x crit and not even five crits will overtake Mokou's with the previous numbers, which were already giving Youmu too many damage bonuses. So no, giving her a Turtlesmasher definitely won't allow her to deal more damage to Biotopos than I did.
Less than that, since this means Mokou has a 16.6% chance of critical hitting, which I don't think she has.
Nah, she's got higher than that. If you're damage rushing a boss with a non-Youmu character, you're using Youmu's three bomb commander spell at every opportunity. No reason not to. That crit I got on Biotopos wasn't a coincidence, it's just another benefit Mokou gets that Youmu doesn't.
For Youmu, you will see (693, 2079, 693, 2079) = 5544. Over the course of 12 hits, you get about 66582. Youmu has around 50% chance to land criticals as far as I can tell. Higher if she has the +crit katanas.
Why are you counting 12 hits with Youmu? Try six. And throw six Crescent Moon Slashes in there. It's been a while since I've done anything complicated with spreadsheets, but I might be able to make a graph of that too!
Being able to use Fujiyama Volcano every turn is a really big deal. Why are you ignoring it?
Are we trying to compare overall damage?
Uh.
What else would we be doing?
You said "she is the hardest hitter consistently pre-expansion." I disagreed. Definitely not with SoE at least. She's got a very wide damage range that can potentially hit very extremely hard if you're pretty lucky, then her damage plummets the next turn. That's kind of the opposite of consistency!
She still does good damage! I just prefer more consistency in my consistently hardest hitters.
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Youmu's crit damage is 2.66, actually.
there is an unclear bonus from the stance buff to make it higher
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Does this apply to all crits? What about weapons that say critical +20, like Mokou's Phoenix Hand. Or Youmu's +10 critical in her katana tree? That is still normal right and not x/1000?
x/1000 refers to the raw data; the Touhou Fuhai has a listed crit bonus of 150, which is 15% (150/1000 = 0.15 = 15%).
Taking those into account do not make a difference. Adding an x2 multiplier to 2 equations give you the same results, just bigger numbers.
I was simplifying it to show you numbers and why it favors Youmu.
The issue here is Slayers, hitting weakness, etc. all use a multiplier. This means Mokou will not have an edge over Youmu or vice versa, because this is done at the same time as the other damage multipliers. The math says it won't make a difference, so I don't need to take into consideration of slayer effect, because the boost would be the same for both.
If Youmu does 1000 damage and the slayer effect is x2 damage. Youmu will do 2000 damage. The same would be true for Mokou. There is nothing that you need to add here. That said, if you can provide me proof otherwise, I will gladly do the math for everything, slayers, elemental effects, etc.
From my understanding, double damage from a slayer, extra damage from exploiting weaknesses, buffs, etc will add to the total damage done before defense is calculated. This wouldn't have any effect on a theoretical 0-defense monster, but against most targets it would favor Youmu's attacks. I believe the manual explicitly suggests trying to exploit weaknesses on high-defense targets for this reason; "double damage" gives you a lot more than 2x damage.
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Yes, and in the same line of thought, resistances are more powerful then, say, a flat 50% damage reduction, because it means your defense has a higher influence as well.
Mokou also loses out on weakness hit advantages to a degree against enemies that are weak against an element other then fire, as half of her attack is fire, wheras Youmu's entire attack is ? Elemental. This is without bringing up the obvious "if it resists Fire her damage is neutered" factor, including because she has significant additional fire element strength that makes it even weaker.
If anyone knows exactly how POT influences crits, by the way, I'd love to know!
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Objection. The slayers and the weaknesses are added to total damage. After the defense is factored.
You've never 'try'ed to slash Titans before and after elemental weapon ETH.
The damage increase was quite pathetic.
Youmu's Bold Advance gives another +33% to damage.
If you want to, I could show you how much Sanae's Iyasaka can do.
Actually, I should test how much Youmu's skill tree influences Crit damage.
Crit chance : (POT/2 + 20) ?, says the JPN wiki.
x/1000 refers to the raw data; the Touhou Fuhai has a listed crit bonus of 150, which is 15% (150/1000 = 0.15 = 15%).
Thanks for clearing up.
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(POT/2 + 20)
The sad thing is I imagine this has to be out of 1000, then. So... 20 pot is 1% chance more. D'awww. And I was hoping I could get really high crit rates.
Also, uh, you know the glitch to get tons of clears out of a single sidequest take? If you do it with the wrong party and get the Failure result, then the midboss enemy is kind of negated- even if you run away and such, it'll still just be a normal enemy encounter. And then after you beat it, you get Success, and the screen blacks out... and the game has essentially crashed. So you have to close it. XD
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there is an unclear bonus from the stance buff to make it higher
The crit/normal numbers that I'm seeing divide very cleanly into 2.33/2.66 depending on whether or not both skills are taken. If the stance buff is supposed to give a damage bonus, it's completely negligible.
I'll test the elemental thing some.
EDIT: Oh, that other buff. Okay.
EDIT EDIT: Okay, tested elemental stuff.
You are correct in that it roughly halves what you'd expect someone to be doing from hitting a weakness, however the fact that the attack is influenced by land levels ends up making up for it. Hitting a water-weak enemy at not-quite-max water levels did roughly double damage with FV, when an uninfluenced water elemental attack got a 50% boost.
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whoops, fought the second gorgon sister with youmu, too :V
http://www.abload.de/img/unbenannt2mtewb.jpg
I actually took a look for this wikipedia because in my first try, I game over'd because I didn't expect aging drizzle. looked for ways to parry that. though, it was pretty obvious with alice :V
satori also learned mad thunder in this fight, so that's a plus, I suppose.
youmu did 2000 per regular hit with SoE. Of course, she had enwater and PATK buffs. it wasn't as painful as I thought it would be, to be honest. I mean seriously, who the fukck uses patchouli in this fight :V when i saw on the wiki she had mad thunder, I took the chance as put satori in the team instead. she also managed to inflict poison, so there's that. hooray for youmu \o/
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youmu did 2000 per regular hit with SoE.
Cool!
From my testing, Easy mode works out to be a 50% damage boost. So ~1330 damage or so on normal. Turtlesmasher is a 75% damage slayer. Slayers are a total damage multiplier near the end of the equation, so that'd be around 2330 for a normal hit and 6200 for a crit. Five crits takes her to 31000, substantially less than the 36k I have screenshot evidence of. And I don't think anyone's going to accuse you of neglecting Youmu.
This calculation also doesn't take into account the raw damage loss from switching from the Kusanagi to the Turtlesmasher, so the real number would be slightly lower to begin with. And no, Biotopos' defense isn't high enough to hurt Youmu's damage all that significantly at that point. Defense is halved in every damage calculation, and SoE pierces a good chunk anyway.
Can I stop talking about this now? Please? :V
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Whoops. completely forgot turtlesmasher would be better here. well, still managed without any problems after overcoming the desperate death attack.
that said, the paralysis cloud was weird and annoying.
so, after doing like 4 mps on the last stage, I have to say the mobs are bullshit. some have like what, 40k HP? are they minibosses or what? other only have like 10k, in return. I don't get the differences. also, got the sharp blade drop \o/ I could craft youmu's ultimate weapon or armor, if I wanted to. After beating the stage, because I don't want the enemies to respawn before I finish it normally.
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Some of the Stage 21 enemies are minibosses; they aren't random-battle grade enemies at all, but they have like 10~15% drop rates on a character-specific super craft material and a good piece of equipment, often upgradeable later into something even nicer.
On the others, with the more buff ones it's really good to either hit their weaknesses or go all-out with bombs.
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whoops. I see. makes sense why that black knight that dropped youmu's sharp blade was so tough, then. I couldn't find a weakness for that one, either. fucking oe shotted alice 3 times, duh.
I go apeshit with bombs on all encounters, though. I do have the luxury of a "nearby" healing circle, after all. after 3-4 fight (usually) I return to heal as to avoid getting stuck in a tough encounter with not enough bombs left.
team that grinds this stuff is alice, youmu, byakuren, patchouli and sanae, if anyone cares. I set mokou as commander because I desperately NEED someone who can revive quickly (I usually use a healing move with sanae the same turn, so that the revived character has full HP. only need like 2 more POW for the 25 on miracles, so yeah) I might change the commander after that.
I was planning on using satori in this stage, too. to learn stuff, you know. turns out it was a little tough :/ shame. even though she has mad thunder now, she can't use it
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Mad Thunder is still pretty nifty for phase 1~2 on the final boss, it's a big help to have it around.
The most notable thing I'd say for Satori in this stage is Medoroa from Ambivalence. It's a miniboss on the portal area in the middle of the first map (aka go through that portal and it's in that area). It's immune to the physical elements, but weak to the 4 main magic ones. It's a penetration attack, so you can just set Satori in the back of Poison Shield and get it. You'll want to keep in mind it's gonna one-shot anyone without some kind of unavoidable defense though...! (Like Super Duplex, Starlight Barrier, Leaf Shield, Nitori camo, etc) Ambivalence is pretty easy as long as you have a way to damage it, though, apart from that one attack.
Medoroa does a crapload of damage in exchange for a crapload of MP. (It's damage formula includes the number 999, but it's mp cost is 99...!) With mp reduction gear or for dealing a few major blows for a boss, it's highly effective. It's great for stage 21 in general since you have a healing circle RIGHT THERE, once you get to the end of the stage.
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Hey, am I interpreting the probability to get extra hits from the various multihit types correctly?
Type 0: All hits have equal probability (A hypothetical 5-hit attack has a 1/5 chance for 5, 1/5 for 4, etc.)
Type 1: The probability for max hits starts at 1, and the probability for each hit less than that doubles each time (1/31 for 5, 2/31 for 4, 4/31 for 3, 8/31 for 2, 16/31 for 1)
Type 2: The probability for max hits starts at 1, and the probability for each hit less increases by 1 each time (1/15, 2/15, 3/15, 4/15, 5/15)
Type 3: The probability for both min and max hits start at 1, and doubles up to the midpoint (1/10, 2/10, 4/10, 2/10, 1/10)
Type 4: The probability for min hits starts at 1, and the probability for extra hits increases by 1 (5/15, 4/15, 3/15, 2/15, 1/15)
Type 5: The probability for min hits starts at 1, and the probability for extra hits doubles (16/31, 8/31, 4/31, 2/31, 1/31)
Illusion Doll moves Sakuya's multihit attacks from 1 to 3, 4, or 5 depending on the level. Jackpot World moves everything Type 4 and lower into Type 5, so I guess Sakuya doesn't actually benefit from it if she's maxed out her Illusion tree?
Then targeting types:
Type 0: Hits the selected target unless it dies, then it moves on to random targets.
Type 1: Hits the selected target once, then targets randomly.
Type 2: Hits the selected target once, hits a random target other than the one previously hit for all remaining hits.
Type 3: Only hits the selected target and stops attacking if the target dies.
The attacks are written as Number of hits/Probability type/Target type.
Does Devil of Decline work similarly? I remember trying to figure multihit attacks out there and getting pretty confused a while back.
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Yeah, I think that you got most of them right.
Type 5 works differently if there are only 2 numbers to choose from, becoming 3:1. (75% of 3 hits, 25% of 2 hits for Mad Thunder, for example)
Sakuya's Illusion Doll 'pushes the lower bound' of Types, to say.
So you're correct about Sakuya not benefiting from Jackpot World if she has Illusion Doll 3.
Just do Berserker Soul + Ten Dice Sword + Jackpot World for the Quest Minibosses.
Devil of Decline works differently.
Type 0 is the bell curve, Type 4 is the equal probability,
Lower chance of higher hits for lower type numbers, and higher chance of higher hits for higher type numbers, from Type 1 ~ Type 7.
Don't know exactly what the distributions are.
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How exactly does the Ten Dice sword work anyway? Is it a 1~10 hit weapon? The english wiki entry is not english and I'm still grinding my face off before doing stage 23 because I'm lazy.
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It's 1-10 hits at probability Type 4, if I'm reading this right. So 10/55 for ten hits, etc.
When bumped up to Type 5, the max hits seems to be adjusted from the 512/1023 that you'd expect it to be to 489/1000.
I don't know what its targeting is like, and I don't know if the multihits will activate outside of a normal attack. I never had one to play around with. Still, you're looking at a good 70 hits on average per turn with Berserker Soul. That's definitely something.
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@Youmu and Mokou: I'll refrain from commenting on them. I will just say I disagree with your analysis, because I have observed both Youmu and Mokou's damage. The former doing more damage than the latter. I will comment about critical hits, because I am unsure how it works.
Youmu's crit damage is 2.66, actually. Bonus of .33 in the stance tree and Katana tree. Looks like Youmu's crit is smaller to me!
There are 3 ways to read this. +33% could be a multiplier, so 2 instances of +33% is not +66%. Once instance would make it go from 2x damage to 2.66x damage. The second instance would make it go from 2.66x to 3.53x. The third instance would make it go from 3.53x to 4.70x. And if you include the bonus crit Katana, which is not very impressive, but if it is multiplicative, that means, crit damage can go up to 7.05x damage. I don't know how crit multipliers are calculated.
The other way to read this is that it is multiplicative and additive. Additive when it comes to multiple bonuses, like 2 instances of +33% will become +66%. Multiplicative when it comes to actual multiplier. So at +66% you get (2 * 1.66) = 3.32x damage. Less impressive, but still pretty potent, if you have 33% + 33% + 33% + 50% = 149%, which gives you an ending multiplier of almost 5x crit damage.
And the last way is the way you mentioned, additive. So, 2x crit damage + 33% would give you 2.33x crit damage.
Hey, am I interpreting the probability to get extra hits from the various multihit types correctly?
That's pretty cool to know. I saw that part and couldn't make anything out of it. I think Youmu's Cycling Realm Slash is type 4, 1-7 hits.
While Slash of Eternity is type 2, this means her average amount of hits is not 4, but lower, 3.66 hits.
Whoops. completely forgot turtlesmasher would be better here. well, still managed without any problems after overcoming the desperate death attack.
that said, the paralysis cloud was weird and annoying.
Yeah, I hate that cloud, it is annoying. I would rather use the Kusanagi over the Turtlesmasher, unless you are doing a damage race against the boss or looking for bigger numbers.
whoops. I see. makes sense why that black knight that dropped youmu's sharp blade was so tough, then. I couldn't find a weakness for that one, either. fucking oe shotted alice 3 times, duh.
There are some amazing drops these mini bosses give. The Black Knight, Basche, drops one of the best armors in the game, I think it is called Obsidian Armor, upgrades into very impressive medium armor. Another knight, Pendragon, drops a very good defensive weapon, Excalibur.
And some 6 armed titan looking thing drops Zeus' Robe, which upgrades into Golden Cassock, and then Sacred Cloth, the best heavy armor in the game and likely the best armor. Golden Cassock has a hidden effect of 50 hp regen, 2 mp regen. I did not even realize that until I had someone wore it and was wondering why my Sakuya was regenerating 50 hp and 2 mp per turn.
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And the last way is the way you mentioned, additive. So, 2x crit damage + 33% would give you 2.33x crit damage.
The tree bonuses are definitely just additive. Just use SoE and divide the crit damage by the normal damage, and you'll see that the number is 2.33/2.66x.
I dunno about the buff, but it wouldn't be hard to test that either.
And I'm not really surprised that you haven't seen Mokou do as much damage as I have. One of the things that's become pretty apparent in this discussion is that a lot of Mokou's damage comes from somewhat odd places for a physical character. If you just hand them the same weapon and buffs and tell them to go, Youmu is probably going to deal more damage. It's when you start boosting fire damage and land levels and such that Mokou overtakes her. I didn't know at the time that land levels didn't influence most physical attacks, so I was always raising it regardless, and that ends up being a really, really big deal. I had no idea why Mokou was doing so much more damage than everything else I tested the first time through, but now I've got some answers to explain what I was seeing at least.
Going back to the Ten Dice Sword madness: I remembered Yuugi also gets a 30% crit damage bonus in one of her trees, so the next step seems pretty clear: Use Youmu's commander bomb before you attack, and about 2/3 of those 70 hits are going to turn into crits.
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Did I say that Land power has no effect on physical damage(except for Nitori's elemental chasers) unless you get Byakuren's Elemental Weapon?
About Ten Dice Sword,
Did I mention anything about Sakuya + Ten Dice Sword?
25 Points to Illusion, 25 Points to Murder, 5 Points to Sword, boost her IND and ACC,
and watch everything that can be instadeathed be instadeathed. Hopefully.
For maximum effect, add Hypnotic Bullet and/or Byakuren's Hyper Trigger.
It helps a lot when grinding for material.
Getting the Ten Dice Sword is the hard part.
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whoops, beat lithos and all that's left is the (presumably) last fight. Satori learned vortex in that fight. actually the first spell I have to dispel stuff. pretty cool, actually. also, did I do something terribly wrong? lithos satus effect (petrify and charm) hit me even though I used sanae's RES buff (with a full POW tree) + amplified it through that one spell she got in the 60s somewhere.
like what, are they that powerful?
also, after losing the first 2 fights, I felt like I didn't need alice in this fight, cconsideirng lithos didn't hit hard. at all. so i went with youmu, sanae, byakuren, satori and patchouli for this fight. the weakness to fire was easily exploited with patchouli and youmu/byakuren combo. also, 10k per hit :V with...half-moon slash or whatever it was called. new attack I got in stage 21 and seems pretty neat for the rounds I can't use a spell because the cooldown's there.
before I fight the last bossfight, I wanna grind up everyone who didn't find in stage 20 and 21. aya is still level 44 :V
oh yeah, a question. in the room you're in before you fight lithos ar 4 chests on 2 isolated island. how do I get to them? will a path open once I defate the last boss or something?
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There are invisible pathways.
As far as I know, the only maps with visible but inaccessible segments with stuff on it are map S and T in stage 27. In both cases there aren't any items on those segments, just some enemy icons, and if you're actually going to go there, then believe me you'll be glad that they can't get to you =D
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oh yeah, a question. in the room you're in before you fight lithos ar 4 chests on 2 isolated island. how do I get to them? will a path open once I defate the last boss or something?
There's already an invisible path. Just try walking to it from various angles and you'll get it eventually.
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The tree bonuses are definitely just additive. Just use SoE and divide the crit damage by the normal damage, and you'll see that the number is 2.33/2.66x.
Why are you so certain of this? I don't think you quite get what I am saying.
Pretend I say this skill "doubles the damage of critical hits".
If you do 2000 damage on a critical hit, usually, you read it as 4000 damage on critical hit instead. Which is what I mean by multiplicative and additive. The second part being, if you have multiple bonuses, those will add, but the bonus itself is multiplicative.
The same deal is if someone were to say +33% damage to critical hit. Usually, you think of it as +33% damage to the critical hit. If you deal 1000 damage normally, you would do 2000 damage on critical hit. Then, you increase that damage by 33%, meaning you end up with 2660 damage. That means the multiplier effect you got was 2.66x, if it says +33% critical hit damage. This is how I read it, but it is possible that it does not work that way.
I would need to do more testing to get a more accurate estimation, but from what I have observed, it is multiplicative and additive. Meaning, you do 2.66x damage if you only one instance of Youmu's +33% critical hit damage bonus.
If I use Berserker's Soul on Yuugi, I might be able to estimate what the multiplier is. Even then, it is hard, because the random damage is pretty high. I have seen Youmu do about 4000 on a non-critical hit and 16,000 on critical hit with the same attack (3 critical hit bonuses used: +66% from 2 trees, and +33% from bold advancing). But this does not mean anything, because it is just 1 iteration and random damage is random.
And I'm not really surprised that you haven't seen Mokou do as much damage as I have. One of the things that's become pretty apparent in this discussion is that a lot of Mokou's damage comes from somewhat odd places for a physical character.
I am aware of all the places that Mokou's damage comes from. It is not odd or strange. It is the same as any of the casters or element weapon enchanted users. I believe Formation(Okuu's) can affect Mokou's damage, as well as the items that give +elemental damage. Those aren't anything out of the ordinary and can be replicated by anyone with elemental weapon enchant. You can also use Nitori as your commander to further increase the damage, as she adds to elemental strength. But this is something you can do when you element enchant a character, so it isn't like she is receiving bonuses from more places than other characters.
BTW, Youmu is the only character that can lower the weapon/element resistance of the opposing enemy. This is kind of funny, even though I have never tried to use it correctly. This is mainly because the skill description is wrong and I did not realize what it did until one of my random uses of that skill. I think the skill says lowers defense or something.
If, for example, Youmu is fire enchanted, she can lower the opposing enemy's fire resistance by 1 stage. This means if the enemy had a solid triangle vs fire, they now have an X vs fire, from double damage to quadruple damage.
About Ten Dice Sword
I'll probably try to farm for that. The 1 to 10 hits, what multihit type is that?
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Ten Dice Sword :
It's 1-10 hits at probability Type 4, if I'm reading this right. So 10/55 for ten hits, etc.
When bumped up to Type 5, the max hits seems to be adjusted from the 512/1023 that you'd expect it to be to 489/1000.
Anyways, SpoonyGundam's right about the two bonuses being 2.66
Tested with Touhou Fuhai Reincarnation Slash on Resentment.
55 Crits, 34 Normals (That's how Youmu rolls.)
Critical : Avg 3154, Min 2836, Max 3435
Normal : Avg 1175, Min 1066, Max 1291
The ratio for the Min and Max is suspiciously close to 2.66, and the Avg ratio is 2.68.
Will do some more testing for Bold Advance(or not).
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I have a few questions... does anyone have a recommended levels list for areas/bosses? Currently cleared the Netherworld and grinding for Muenzuka. Party range is from 23-19... am I too over-leveled? Also, for the expansion, do I still need to get the expansion to play it if I have Weekend?
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You'll know that you're overleveled if you're are getting less than 50% of the EXP. You're not overleveled yet. Just level up at the new stage, if possible.
Weekend comes with the expansion.
About Youmu's Bold Advance with the two +33% boosts in the skill trees.
Tested with Touhou Fuhai Reincarnation Slash on Resentment.
68 Crits, 37 Normals. (As expected of Youmu!)
Critical : Avg 4213, Min 3788, Max 4587
Normal : Avg 1400, Min 1267, Max 1534
The ratio for the Min and Max is suspiciously close to 2.99, and the Avg ratio is 3.00.
Seriously, if Youmu was any stronger, she would have been nerfed.
Crescent Moon Slash is quite the economic physical attack. It fits my conservative playstyle.
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Looks like Yukkuri Slash has no damage variance, so it probably would have been faster to just test with that. :P
But this is something you can do when you element enchant a character, so it isn't like she is receiving bonuses from more places than other characters.
Yes she is. If you're enchanting another character's weapon with dark, that character isn't benefiting from +fire accessories or armor, but Mokou is. That character's not benefiting from Hot Spot Vulcan, but Mokou is. That character isn't benefiting from land levels (With few exceptions), but Mokou is. There might be some more that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head, but the point is she's benefiting from things that other characters aren't.
Some of the bonuses may seem small individually, but they add up fast. Especially when you're dealing with large numbers to begin with. You might disagree that they're significant bonuses, but you're not the one who's actually witnessed her doing huge damage. They help explain what I've seen her do, and I'm satisfied with that. Let's drop it now?
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Yes she is. If you're enchanting another character's weapon with dark, that character isn't benefiting from +fire accessories or armor, but Mokou is. That character's not benefiting from Hot Spot Vulcan, but Mokou is. That character isn't benefiting from land levels (With few exceptions), but Mokou is. There might be some more that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head, but the point is she's benefiting from things that other characters aren't.
Huh? If you are enchanting someone with dark/light, yes that would be the case. But if you are doing that why would you use +fire accessories? When you have +light/dark accessories? Of course, if you use elemental enchant, then use the appropriate +element items. The light/dark enchant is the only time where you cannot fully replicate bonuses. This is because of things like Patchouli's field effect, armor, mainly the elemental medium and light armors. However, the bosses or mini-bosses that are weak to light/dark are generally resistant to the elements.
I don't remember that there being anything Mokou could be benefitting that other characters cannot. If you are facing element weak bosses, you use the appropriate element and shift the land accordingly. In this case Patchouli has not just Hot Spot Vulcan. The one thing that Mokou could be benefitting from is the formation, Okuu's which ups fire damage. I don't know the numbers, but I don't believe it exceeds Moriya Destruction or some of the other higher bonus formations.
The ratio for the Min and Max is suspiciously close to 2.66, and the Avg ratio is 2.68.
Does going into Mannusya stance increase critical hit damage or is it just critical hit chance/accuracy? I want to do some testing on my own too.
From what SpoonyGundam says, it seems like Yukkuri Slash has no variance, so I'll conduct a test with that.
First with no multipliers at all. Then with 1 instance of 33%, then with 2 instances of 33%.
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Huh? If you are enchanting someone with dark/light, yes that would be the case. But if you are doing that why would you use +fire accessories?
Because there aren't enough +Light/Dark accessories to fill up every slot.
If you are facing element weak bosses, you use the appropriate element and shift the land accordingly.
Most physical attacks don't benefit from land levels, even with an element added. I thought I said that before? Mokou is one of the few exceptions.
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Human Realm Stance increases critical chance and accuracy.
And did I say Reincarnation Slash? Sorry about that. It was Cycling Realm Slash (Soku : Slash of Cycles)
Looks like Yukkuri Slash has no damage variance, so it probably would have been faster to just test with that.
Oh, well. At least Youmu leveled up to 97 and I got two elemental crystals, so nothing lost.
EDIT : By the way, these Super Ajas are getting very superfluous. Why did the developers put the Sidequests this way?
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I currently have over 200 hours clocked into this game! I don't think I've EVER clocked that many hours into any game until now!
In any case, I have all but five of Satori's Skills--three being impossible to learn, and I'm thinking the fourth might be as well:
100 Shots 100 Bullseyes
Reflection
Hyper Elixir
Elixir
Hell Blaze
I'm almost convinced that Elixir is impossible to learn. I've tried the Control-Interrupt method on the Elder Dragon (got INCREDIBLY lucky with Control on the round it uses Elixir!), and it seems to "misfire" in the same manner that Raise Dead does when it's used while nobody's dead.
Unless Hakurei Multiplex Barrier's Decoy effect works in the same manner that it does with the Super Kedama and Raise Dead, I'm thinking it's impossible to learn.
Were the targeting properties changed on Raise Dead and Elixir in earlier versions? The reason I ask this is because the wiki talked about the Charm/Control-Interrupt method on the Phoenix and the Spirit Tortoise, and unless that was posted without any testing, it seems to indicate that it worked in earlier versions.
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Because there aren't enough +Light/Dark accessories to fill up every slot.
So, you want to use 2 +element items and 1 +fire element item then? And you think this does adds more damage than using a +attack item? What levels are we talking about now?
Most physical attacks don't benefit from land levels, even with an element added. I thought I said that before? Mokou is one of the few exceptions.
What? If you add an element with Byakuren, since she is the only one who can apply elements to other people, the attacker will benefit from the land levels. Whatever do you mean by Mokou is one of the few exceptions? Care to explain in more detail?
Tested with Touhou Fuhai Reincarnation Slash on Resentment.
Yeah, I have done the testing with Yukkuri slash and it is additive. I have tested it conjunction with weakness, buffs, and without, to see how they work with each other. I have not tested it with slayer though, since the enemy I was testing against is a plant and Youmu doesn't have any plant slaying weapons.
EDIT : By the way, these Super Ajas are getting very superfluous. Why did the developers put the Sidequests this way?
I have no idea why. A lot of the end tier final weapons are not that amazing either. It is like they want you to get extra Super Ajas.
I'm almost convinced that Elixir is impossible to learn. I've tried the Control-Interrupt method on the Elder Dragon (got INCREDIBLY lucky with Control on the round it uses Elixir!), and it seems to "misfire" in the same manner that Raise Dead does when it's used while nobody's dead.
Elixir is a normal heal spell too, so I don't see why it would misfire. If the Dragon randomly targetted Satori, you should be able to learn it.
Were the targeting properties changed on Raise Dead and Elixir in earlier versions? The reason I ask this is because the wiki talked about the Charm/Control-Interrupt method on the Phoenix and the Spirit Tortoise, and unless that was posted without any testing, it seems to indicate that it worked in earlier versions.
I heard that it doesn't work with those guys, even though they can use those moves. Super Kedama is the only one that you can learn Raise Dead from.
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Elemental Weapons are NOT affected by land power, except for certain +[Element] attacks. Just so you know. Really common misconception.
Bah, the wording was a bit strange. Physical attacks and skills, even with with Elemental Weapon, won't usually be affected by land power.
Just try it for yourself. Youmu's Yukkuri Slash with Byakuren's Elemental Weapon with Patchouli's Active Land.
About Elixir, Control the Dragon, not the Elder Dragon.
The Dragon has Elixir on the movelist, so aim it to Satori. After Controlling, that is.
I would be sorry for you for wasting your time on the Elder Dragon, but I also wasted time on the Elder Dragon. Although I did learn Cosmic Liner there.
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So, you want to use 2 +element items and 1 +fire element item then? And you think this does adds more damage than using a +attack item? What levels are we talking about now?
I haven't extensively tested it, but it might end up being better. The possibility is there, and I'll get around to messing with it myself someday. There's armor too. I don't know how common materials get to be far into Weekend, but I feel like I still probably wouldn't want to make all of the elemental boosting armors, so just making the +Fire would be a good catch-all for Mokou.
And yes, the +Fire armor would be better for damage than using the Muscle Suit. Elemental Weapon overrides the Slash/Stab/Strike attribute of the attack with the new element, so you won't be getting any bonus from it.
But the land levels are probably the biggest thing. To go into a little more detail, the only physical attacks that benefit from land levels will have an additional element to begin with (I.E. +Fire damage, +Water damage, etc), and land will still only affect them if an elemental enchant is added. So that's Mokou, Nitori, and Satori pre-expansion. In the expansion, I think Cirno and Remilia have an elemental physical in their unique weapon trees. I don't know that all of those attacks work with land levels, but I know that Mokou's do, and those are the only ones on the list that are going to be really significant in boss fights anyway.
Additionally, once an elemental weapon is added, the attack seems to be entirely based on the new element for the purposes of determining bonus damage from land levels. So Fujiyama Volcano will be getting just as much of a damage boost with a water enchant as a fire enchant. See this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13298.msg921701.html#msg921701) earlier in the thread.
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There's a scale between whether adding more patk or more %age boost helps more. The more %age boost you have, the less notable having more is; it's not really 20% more damage anymore if you already have 40% boost from shield/armor/amulets/pow trees... and more significantly, that means increasing your patk has 40% more of an effect then it normally would.
I'd probably put on both the +20% boost amulets (And the appropriate +20% small armor, assuming I don't ACTUALLY need a good one on), but the last slot would definitely go to a Strength Ring IV (or a Rage Choker V, which is almost as good, and some characters *coughYuugi* near max level hit max strength with POW tree and a Ring III)
Mmm, slayer weapons are nice though. Yuugi hitting 99999 on the subquest Machine Dragon with enwater/bless from Byakuren only via an Oni's Metal Rod? Yes please. With her Ostracon weapon, Nitori's hitting 80k-ish. This is using Youmu's commander bomb of course, though. Given that the machine dragon doesn't have a lot more then 100k hp (Maybe like 140k? Haven't looked) this makes for some fast gold farming (combine diamonds with Grindflayer emeralds) and EXP~<3
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About Elixir, Control the Dragon, not the Elder Dragon.
The Dragon has Elixir on the movelist, so aim it to Satori. After Controlling, that is.
I would be sorry for you for wasting your time on the Elder Dragon, but I also wasted time on the Elder Dragon. Although I did learn Cosmic Liner there.
Dragon it is, then. I won't bother with the Elder Dragon anymore.
The Elder Dragon did teach a ton of other stuff: Cosmic Liner, Dragon Breath, Comet, Flare, Miniflare, and Bio.
Then again, since my Satori has Punish the Judgment, I didn't waste too much time on the Elder Dragon trying to learn Elixir, as PtJ is STUPIDLY powerful:
Satori + Holy Grail + that angel armor that boosts Light + Apollo Amulet + Awakened Soul + Spell Enhance + Light land maxed on the Elder Dragon = 20000+ damage per shot, and NO cooldown!
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Bah, the wording was a bit strange. Physical attacks and skills, even with with Elemental Weapon, won't usually be affected by land power.
Just try it for yourself. Youmu's Yukkuri Slash with Byakuren's Elemental Weapon with Patchouli's Active Land.
Yes, I misinterpreted what you said. Anyway the first 2 screen shots are with Youmu using elemental weapon with neutral lightning. The next 2 are with Youmu using elemental weapon with max lightning field. Numbers are not high for both(Youmu and Mokou), because I have only applied lightning enchant and nothing else, no defense debuffs either, I need the defensive items to survive that thing for 20+ turns, so no offensive items either. I do not want vortex to mess up my testing, so all the characters there, except Patchouli(Alice always covers Patchouli for land manipulation) can take the Terminator's hits. For comparison, here are Mokou's numbers with Big Fujiyama Volcano with max lightning. I was unlucky or something when testing, it took me 9 tries to land a critical hit on the Terminator. That should not be the case, since I am using Mokou's Phoenix Hand. In theory I should have what I assumed as 5%(assumed) crit chance + 20%(Phoenix Hand bonus) + 5%(Tree Skill) = 30% chance to crit. Damage range for Mokou is 13k to 15k or so. Critical hit would be 27k to 30k.
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I haven't extensively tested it, but it might end up being better. The possibility is there, and I'll get around to messing with it myself someday. There's armor too. I don't know how common materials get to be far into Weekend, but I feel like I still probably wouldn't want to make all of the elemental boosting armors, so just making the +Fire would be a good catch-all for Mokou.
You can do the same with all the elements. There are armor bonuses for every element, including light, dark, and mystic. Not that you'll be doing mystic.
Additionally, once an elemental weapon is added, the attack seems to be entirely based on the new element for the purposes of determining bonus damage from land levels. So Fujiyama Volcano will be getting just as much of a damage boost with a water enchant as a fire enchant. See this post earlier in the thread.
Huh, I think you misinterpret what that meant, even if the final calculations are the same, but the logic is not. Fujiyama Volcano's added element damage (+100% fire damage) will not change its damage, that part is not affected by land levels. That part is set, kind of like using the Dual Blade. If I am reading it right, you don't get extra damage lightning damage from using the Dual Blade by maxing out the fire land effect. Nor would you get extra damage from Nouvelle Ice Sword when you max out water land effect.
The damage bonus you get from land is only from the element enchant and that bonus is only received if you use an attack with +element in it. At least I think that is what is being said.
Satori + Holy Grail + that angel armor that boosts Light + Apollo Amulet + Awakened Soul + Spell Enhance + Light land maxed on the Elder Dragon = 20000+ damage per shot, and NO cooldown!
That's impressive. That guy is hard to hurt.
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You can do the same with all the elements. There are armor bonuses for every element, including light, dark, and mystic. Not that you'll be doing mystic.
Did you even read what I said?
The armors are available, but making an entire set would be costly. Again, I don't know how much more common materials are with Weekend in the long run, but if Steel is even somewhat uncommon I'd much rather be making general-purpose armor than a piece of equipment I'll only use for one or two bosses. I really don't like grinding all that much, so I don't really expect to have access to absolutely everything.
And the Light/Dark armors aren't even available until the final dungeon of the expansion, and they honestly don't matter all that much by that point.
Huh, I think you misinterpret what that meant, even if the final calculations are the same, but the logic is not. Fujiyama Volcano's added element damage (+100% fire damage) will not change its damage, that part is not affected by land levels.
Well, Sungho specifically says that he thinks both types are affected by land in that post. I don't see what could be misinterpreted there.
But anyway, land level adjustment is one of the final steps of the damage formula, after the two types are already added together and the total damage is multiplied by crit and slayer. At that point, there's no distinction between normal and fire damage.
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Well, Sungho specifically says that he thinks both types are affected by land in that post. I don't see what could be misinterpreted there.
But anyway, land level adjustment is one of the final steps of the damage formula, after the two types are already added together and the total damage is multiplied by crit and slayer. At that point, there's no distinction between normal and fire damage.
Yes, there is no distinction, but it would be good to make a logical distinction.
The idea was that because Mokou, Nitori and anyone with elemental attacks get the bonus because it counts as an elemental attack. So, therefore it is affected by Land, if assuming they have an elemental weapon attached to them.
However, the added damage of the skill, Fire, or in the case of Nitori, Water, is unaffected by Land. From the listed damage tests, that was how it worked.
This is similar to back to what was mentioned. +element skills or weapons are unaffected by land. What did get affected was the main part, which is the element enchant. This is why if you have a Water enchanted weapon in a field of max fire, Fujiyama Volcano will be nerfed. However, if you have a Water enchanted weapon in a field of max water, Fujiyama Volcano does full damage.
What I am saying is that the logic is only the first element(Byakuren's element enchant) is affected by land. The extra element is not and the results say that.
The armors are available, but making an entire set would be costly. Again, I don't know how much more common materials are with Weekend in the long run, but if Steel is even somewhat uncommon I'd much rather be making general-purpose armor than a piece of equipment I'll only use for one or two bosses. I really don't like grinding all that much, so I don't really expect to have access to absolutely everything.
Why make those armors?
The only one that is somewhat useful is the Flame Robe, which is gotten in the expansion, and that is because if you want to use Cirno, she should be wearing that. That extra damage is definitely not worth the defense drop. Mokou, Youmu, and Sakuya have an edge in that they can take hits as well as dish them. That is what makes them so useful.
If you are looking for numbers, then making them would make sense, but in a normal playthrough, I don't see the reasoning for it.
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What I am saying is that the logic is only the first element(Byakuren's element enchant) is affected by land. The extra element is not and the results say that.
The damage formula adds the two damage types together, then multiplies them by crit (And damage variance). So let's just say 2000 base damage for each for this example, okay?
(2000+2000)*2 = 8000
In the final step, it multiplies that damage by slayer and land levels, then adjusts for various barriers. If only the non-fire portion was influenced by land, this is what would happen (Just multiplying by 2 to keep the example simple):
(8000/2)+(8000/2)*2=12000
But that's not what the damage formula says. It's just the total damage of the previous step multiplied by slayer and land.
8000*2=16000
There is a difference between the two, and the damage formula is indicating that it's the latter that actually happens. At the point where it determines the land bonus, it's not fire damage anymore. It's just damage, and it gets multiplied like any other damage.
Honestly, it seems pretty obvious even without diving into the damage formula. If land really didn't affect the fire part at all, then those test numbers would have retained at least half of their base damage due to that part being completely unchanged. And that just didn't happen.
That extra damage is definitely not worth the defense drop.
Yeah, I definitely disagree with that. I never really had much trouble keeping mages alive, and they're going to be much squishier than Mokou/Youmu/Sakuya no matter how you shake it. I wouldn't be using weaker armor in random encounters, but during a boss fight, when I know that I'll have Alice tanking and/or Byakuren/Satori debuffing? Doesn't bother me at all to have a bit lower defense.
Chalk it up to a difference in playstyle, I guess.
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The only misunderstanding here is that wording this particular thing is confusing so you aren't realizing what the other is talking about. You've been making several posts trying to explain to the other what they ALREADY AGREE IS TRUE :V
Anyway, the +elemental armor is totally useful, don't be silly. A lot of the time in expansion, you actually... don't have to worry that much about how durable most of your characters are. Fighting the machine dragon subquest? I throw that Aqua Robe on Nitori for more damage, it doesn't matter because she's not going to die anyway. I'd put it on Yuugi but she already hits 99999 so that'd be silly.
Plus, there's the cases where you're putting it on, say, Satori/Patch/Marisa; who would be wearing small armor anyway. You're gonna kill a ton of Terminator Mk.IIs, so +20% elec damage on every Mad Thunder? Yes please.
I usually put the Aqua Robe on Cirno anyway for more damage. The fire weakness is rarely an issue.
The armors aren't too important, but if you want to grind the subquests for EXP/power/lots of materials, they're definitely worth picking up to help speed things along.
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I've been lurking in this thread for a while, but now I have a question for you. Where do you get the recipes for the high level accessories like Hakurei Ribbon, Regalia and Creator's Charm? I just completed the bonus dungeon and got recipes that need those items to make them, and according to the wiki they are synthesis items. I've done all the bulletin board quests atleast once, but Akyuu still doesn't give that stuff to me.
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Kill over 15000 enemies. The enemies killed when you got party-wiped doesn't count, so you'll need a little more than the count on the Records.
Now I seriously wish there was a recipe that uses Super Ajas to create, I dunno, maybe Crystals or Elemental Spheres.
I completed 78.0% of the Equipment Encyclopedia. Hunting for shards are quite annoying.
Byakuren reached Lv. 99, and only Remilia, Youmu, and Sanae is Lv. 97, and the others are Lv. 98. I've come a very long way, I think.
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Sung:I'm surprised you didn't get the lv99 moves first! Reimu and Sakuya's are pretty nifty, even if Marisa's and Patchy don't have quite as usable ones- mystic nukes with hella long cooldowns. If anything was WEAK to mystic... :T
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*checks kill count* 8833 Youkai Exterminated. :ohdear: Time to start grinding it seems...
Thanks for the answer Sungho. :)
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Yeahhhh... if you already beat the BONUS dungeon, and you're only a little over halfway to 15k kills, it sounds like you should probably just declare yourself done rather then go for them XD Is grinding 10+ hours (I don't know how long it'd take, but 10+ hours is not an unrealistic guess at all) really worth it just for some recipes in a game where you already beat everything?
You do get a set of recipes at 10k, if you really want to try to get them, you can see how long it takes for you to get to there. And then realize just how long you'd have to be grinding to get the rest.
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should probably just declare yourself done rather then go for them
I guess I'll just see how boring it gets. I still have some unfinished business in some maps (missing treasures, giant oarfish to kill and a few enemy drops), and I'm not even close to finishing up leveling either (level average of about 90 and Plevel ~84).
But yeah, having only 60 % of the total kill count needed for the final recipes after finishing all the content sounds a bit off. How was it for the rest of you?
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I have 6300 kills and I am not even done with the main game, seeing how I have the final fight left.
then again, maybe I am just weird.
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I guess I'll just see how boring it gets. I still have some unfinished business in some maps (missing treasures, giant oarfish to kill and a few enemy drops), and I'm not even close to finishing up leveling either (level average of about 90 and Plevel ~84).
But yeah, having only 60 % of the total kill count needed for the final recipes after finishing all the content sounds a bit off. How was it for the rest of you?
I was at about ~7500 kills at the end of stage 25. At this point I realized that I don't even have freaking Curtain IVs, so I decided to murder some stage 22 basement mobs to get 15k kill and level at the same time. Azoth and Regalia are HUGE helps in the bonus dungeon anyhow.
As an unrelated but slightly interesting aside, when you talk to Akyu after 15k kills, she asks you "do you remember the first youkai you exterminated?" Do you?
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Sung:I'm surprised you didn't get the lv99 moves first! Reimu and Sakuya's are pretty nifty, even if Marisa's and Patchy don't have quite as usable ones- mystic nukes with hella long cooldowns. If anything was WEAK to mystic... :T
Doesn't fit my 'economic' playstyle. There's a reason why I use Ten Dice Sword Serial Killer Sakuya. Very MP efficient.
About the grinding, switching to Easy Mode makes it much faster. I forgot there was a Easy Mode until I reached more than 15000 kills.
Did anybody try out Nitori's Land Camouflage? 100 IND will be enough to completely nullify attacks with higher Land. Although execution is very hard.
Should be able to block those stupid Ifrits or something.
It's quite fun to try many idiotic gimmicks with the special attacks.
I gathered 81.1%(707) equipments, and Cirno and Aya reached Lv. 99.
Getting the PLv to 99 will be quite tough.
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Doesn't fit my 'economic' playstyle. There's a reason why I use Ten Dice Sword Serial Killer Sakuya. Very MP efficient.
Yeah (I generally am very economic too), but economic isn't something that's nearly as important in, say, boss fights. And, even if you weren't planning on using them, it seems like you'd at least grab them for the hell of it heheh. I mean- everyone at 98 and several at 99 already, so...!
Of course, this is from a viewpoint of someone doing their grinding with subquest bosses, not someone farming enemies for shards. So, it's different. Moves like that have little use outside of bosses unless you were fighting enemies you actually needed a panic button on; and if you're grinding for shards, well, yeahhh...
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What skills Nitori have are affected by IND anyways? You just mentioned Active Camouflage, and if I recall correctly chasers are affected too (not sure how it plays into the formula though). Elemental Bullets and other field spells she have should also be affected by IND, but that's normal.
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Chasers affected by IND? I mean, I guess setting it up is a status effect, but I'm pretty positive they aren't affected by IND. How often Hydro Camo activates might be affected by it.
I suppose Elemental Bullet could have more elemental strength with IND... I never thought about it. It'd be worth a test whether throwing a Launch earring on her could be better/comparable to a different accessory.
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The damage formula adds the two damage types together, then multiplies them by crit (And damage variance). So let's just say 2000 base damage for each for this example, okay?
Is that the damage formula? I don't know enough Japanese to tell which is the damage formula.
Honestly, it seems pretty obvious even without diving into the damage formula. If land really didn't affect the fire part at all, then those test numbers would have retained at least half of their base damage due to that part being completely unchanged. And that just didn't happen.
Not so, it depends on how the damage formula is written. However, I can't read the formula, so I don't know what it is looking for.
Yeah, I definitely disagree with that. I never really had much trouble keeping mages alive, and they're going to be much squishier than Mokou/Youmu/Sakuya no matter how you shake it. I wouldn't be using weaker armor in random encounters, but during a boss fight, when I know that I'll have Alice tanking and/or Byakuren/Satori debuffing? Doesn't bother me at all to have a bit lower defense.
Chalk it up to a difference in playstyle, I guess.
Yes, that would be a playstyle difference. I rarely use Alice in any boss fights. If your defense is insufficient, you are going to die, because there will be no Alice protecting you. I beat both the final boss and expansion boss without using Alice. I should clarify, I did not use Alice for the second part of the final boss fight. For the expansion fight, I just used 1 party. I do use Reimu in those boss fights though.
Anyway, the +elemental armor is totally useful, don't be silly. A lot of the time in expansion, you actually... don't have to worry that much about how durable most of your characters are.
Yeah, in the expansion, but not before. The armor I want to craft are the 184 defense heavy elemental armors. Those are priority if you get your kill count high enough. Land regen + unmatched defense(before expansion) + almost immunity to that element. Get those for your heavy armor wearers and you are set. These armors are still very good even late into the expansion up until you get the crazy stuff, like Sacred Cloth.
Did anybody try out Nitori's Land Camouflage? 100 IND will be enough to completely nullify attacks with higher Land. Although execution is very hard.
Should be able to block those stupid Ifrits or something.
Didn't know about this. The wiki's in Japanese, so a lot of those information is unknown.
@kill count: If you do Scarlet Devil Mansion runs for power, your kill count goes up really really fast.
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What skills Nitori have are affected by IND anyways? You just mentioned Active Camouflage, and if I recall correctly chasers are affected too (not sure how it plays into the formula though). Elemental Bullets and other field spells she have should also be affected by IND, but that's normal.
No, I was talking about Chameleon Camouflage.
According to the Japanese Wiki, that and Nitori's Physical Chasers are affected by IND. Raises damage and crit rate for the physical chasers.
Nitori's Hydro Camouflage is also affected by IND, but it's just the duration that's changed.
Just give the Launch Earrings to Byakuren and use Hyper Trigger or something.
A Hyper Trigger from 100 IND Byakuren with +40% from the trees will give you 126 IND.
Although, it's not like you need high IND for Nitori anyway.
About the whole 'physical skills that are affected by Land Power',
the skills that are affected are ones that shift Land but uses the physical element of the weapon.
The Japanese Wiki mentions Aya's Spellcards(Shifts Land to ELE), Nitori's FIR,WTR,ELE attacks, and Mokou's FIR attacks.
It also says that it is affected by land only if the imbued element matches the element of the Land that the attack shifts.
Maybe it was the case at 2.xx, but it isn't the case at 3.00, as I tested.
Which means that it might have been fixed in 3.01.
The damage formula says that Land is considered after adding the elemental damage.
About the Japanese Wiki, just use Google translate and try to push through.
Google Translate knows more Japanese than you. If you haven't learned Japanese, that is.
I learned of Sanae's Wind of Miracles, Yuugi's 3-turn Berserker Soul, Ten Dice Sword Sakuya, and many more from the Japanese Wiki.
It's quite a interesting read, if you like learning how to crunch numbers. Crunching numbers are what RPGs are.
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I can no longer ignore this game as it appears to be: an RPG, crazy complicated, lenghty and all kinds of stuff that I adore.
However, I am a crazy completionist and thus I must ask first: are there permanently missable stuff I need to watch out for?
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IHowever, I am a crazy completionist and thus I must ask first: are there permanently missable stuff I need to watch out for?
Nah. You should probably go ahead and grab Mokou/Byakuren before starting stage 1 though. Byakuren is by waiting an hour in the Myouren Shrine (seriously; just idle in there and do something else for an hour, then come back. Pretty sure it's fine for the window to be minimized.), and Mokou is from talking to Akyu until she mentions a bamboo forest, and then you go in that from the world map and do the Konami Code directions to find her.
They join later too, but there's not much reason to not get them right away, especially considering those 2 spaces would have no party members at all for the first few stages otherwise.
The ingame encyclopedia will tell you what monsters have drops to nab.
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There actually is one missable skill you can learn with Satori, used by one of the bosses from stage 18. Or rather, there was, because in Weekend you can refight the final boss whenever you want to and that skill is sometimes used in that battle.
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About the Japanese Wiki, just use Google translate and try to push through.
Google Translate knows more Japanese than you. If you haven't learned Japanese, that is.
Your ability to guess what Google translate to is much better than mines. I have tried it and for the most part, it doesn't help. It is sometimes clearer if it was just in kanji.
According to the Japanese Wiki, that and Nitori's Physical Chasers are affected by IND. Raises damage and crit rate for the physical chasers.
Nitori's Hydro Camouflage is also affected by IND, but it's just the duration that's changed.
I did not expect IND to raise damage. That is very interesting. I guess anything that gives you an icon of some kind is affected by IND then.
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I downloaded the game, extracted all the parts into one folder and subsequently replaced the Img.pak and the Game.pak files with the ones in the translation patch. The game shows nothing but a black screen and a couple of options in a toolbar at the top in what I presume to be Japanese (cubes). Was I not supposed to replace them?
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From my understanding, Ultima Weapon's HP conversion formula works exactly like it did in FF6 - the damage multiplier is the precentage of health you have. It also ignores slash resistance.
Anyways, resource management in the first five maps of bonus dungeon mostly boils down to a couple of things: equip your characters defensively so they don't need MP to kill most enemies. Regalia, Kagami + Magatama, Transparent Armor (only do this on extremely frail characters that otherwise just can't survive) + Hakurei Ribbon, 90% Divine Barrier for Lithos/Byakuren, et cetera. Also, know how your characters can regenerate MP - every character in the game except Lithos, Aya and Reisen can do so, so make sure you have the resources (ie. get that Sacred Clothes). This means if worst come to worst, you can always leave the evil maps section, go to the area A (where you can run from battles), have Satori petrify some centipedes and spam Guard to recover MP. Speaking of Satori, make good use of her because she's the only character that can easily regenerate large amount of MP on demand, by equipping the Akiba Sacred Cherry Blossom and using Tentacle/Vacuum Wave on some low DEF enemies and/or plants, and she also has access to easy instant death skills which works on half the mobs you will meet. Also, Azoth is a great help - Marisa can in fact achieve 1MP spells with Azoth and the right growth tree arrangements, which is obviously a huge help.
From the sixth map on you will start encountering minibosses. The sixth map gives you mostly stage 21 miniboss * 2 formations, and most of them are not tough, but Guam Cromch or whatever it's named will still give you pain, so having light-elemental attacker here is pretty important. Seventh map consist of single encounters with stage 27 minibosses. Keep in mind Byakuren's Power Down works on half of them (if you can get power down to hit and you have some decent defensive equipment, you can just normal attack until they go away for the most part), and of the half that doesn't work, Yuugi gets slayer on three of them. Seraphim is no threat as long as you carry one dark spell on someone who is normally slower, and use it every turn (The only threatening attack it has is Punish the Judgment, which it won't use unless light land is at max at the beginning of a turn); Dragon Bungee can be dealt with by having Alice giving someone perpetual London Doll coverage and some HP regeneration, LED Mirage can be dealt with via Private Square or defend until it runs out of MP, and Demiurge... can be dealt with F12 :derp: Or use Quicktime and Aya support and hope you can kill him in three turns. (Seriously, if you don't have Quicktime or Aya Support or projected firepower to have a reasonable chance of killing it in three turns, do not try to fight Demiurge.) Eighth map is just an odd mixmatch that it's kind of hard to summarize, but only Dragon is really tough. This is the last map anyways so you can just go all out if you want.
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I downloaded the game, extracted all the parts into one folder and subsequently replaced the Img.pak and the Game.pak files with the ones in the translation patch. The game shows nothing but a black screen and a couple of options in a toolbar at the top in what I presume to be Japanese (cubes). Was I not supposed to replace them?
if the folder or game name is still in japanese the game won't run
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Okay, so I didn't know one had to update their game to 3.01 first. I thus engaged in the following procedure:
Take the game files (untranslated, 3.00), download the 3.01 patcher and target the containing folder with it and let it run. Apparent success. THEN I replaced two .pak files in the game files with the ones from the translation patch.
It's slightly more succesful, but I still can't play. I get an intro showing the Strawberry Bose logo, then the title screen with Reimu. The game instructs me to "press any key", but only Escape provokes a response, opening two windows. The uppermost is blank, the undermost contains five numbered boxes on the left (from 1 to 5) and on the right eight boxes with asian characters. I can toggle between the boxes, but can't actually interact with them. Only Escape does anything, namely shifting the toggler to the numbered boxes. Once again, I can't do anything but press Escape, wich throws me back to the title screen.
I am most certain I got the right patcher. What could be the source of the problem?
if the folder or game name is still in japanese the game won't run
Renamed folders and game name in English characters. No change observed.
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Okay, so I didn't know one had to update their game to 3.01 first. I thus engaged in the following procedure:
Take the game files (untranslated, 3.00), download the 3.01 patcher and target the containing folder with it and let it run. Apparent success. THEN I replaced two .pak files in the game files with the ones from the translation patch.
It's slightly more succesful, but I still can't play. I get an intro showing the Strawberry Bose logo, then the title screen with Reimu. The game instructs me to "press any key", but only Escape provokes a response, opening two windows. The uppermost is blank, the undermost contains five numbered boxes on the left (from 1 to 5) and on the right eight boxes with asian characters. I can toggle between the boxes, but can't actually interact with them. Only Escape does anything, namely shifting the toggler to the numbered boxes. Once again, I can't do anything but press Escape, wich throws me back to the title screen.
I am most certain I got the right patcher. What could be the source of the problem?Renamed folders and game name in English characters. No change observed.
Make sure you've run config.exe to set the key bindings. If that doesn't help, I'd recommend posting some screenshots of what you are seeing after the "press any key".
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Running the config.exe and changing the key bindings will work. I had a similar problem myself, but it was fixed afterwards. The cause of it is most likely the patch itself, which has something to do with fixing the Twitter functionality. Because Twitter and the config.exe are connected, it somehow messes up the controls.
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I changed the key bindings and everything works as advertised. Thanks!
Currently waiting for Byakuren and then I'll see why this is worth so many threads.
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Finally. Everyone reached Level 99.
I also got enough elemental shards for synthesis. I never have to deal with stupid Reflect Wall anymore. Probably.
Killed 166 Undine Queens, just for your information.
Now I must gather Gold for the Accessories.
Or I should, but why are the Obsidian, Adamantite, and Gold Sidequests bunched together?
And to think I needed 51 Adamantites just for the final armors.(In my opinion, it should have been 17 Adamantites, 17 Super Ajas)
This sidequest schedule is just idiotic.
Kill count : 20373, Equipment : 88.6%(772), lowest PLevel : PLv.93 666/999
Wonder what I can get to first, Max PLv. or the 100% Equipment.
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You've gotten like 50+ emeralds from Grindflayers, right? Then again, you a boatload of grinding doing other stuff, so I wouldn't know. If you did, you can kill Machine Dragon sidequests for the diamonds. Yuugi can deal 99999k damage to it with Enwater+Patk up and the Oni's Metal Rod for 75% Slayer, you should be able to kill it within three turns with Youmu commander luck. (Nitori and Sakuya are also worthy attackers as well. Royal Ordinance slayer+enwatering herself instead of Byakuturns, and huge water bonus on Novelle Ice Sword. 2 turn kill anyone?)
The point here would be you forge them together for gold. My grinding on grindflayers and machine dragons is not only getting me into the mid-90s very quickly with my exp boost gear, but I'm collecting all that gold I'll need, even if in a slightly more roundabout manner.
The irritating part is how often you get "Three character sidequests and Terminator".
Thankfully, the obsidian sidequest is also super easy (Very vulnerable to debuffs which you want to stop it's otherwise not-wimpy attacks anyway, Reisen has transcendent slayer ontop of that, transcendent slayer is common in general and on several endgame tier weapons) and you shouldn't need too many of them either, unlike adamantite and gold.
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I killed the flayer only 16 times. I only have 10 emeralds left. Grinding for the 51 adamantites were a priority back then.
I'm not you.
I now need only 2 more Gold. I'll need 25 more after I get the bonus recipes.
Getting the Trapezohedrons will be a huge problem, though.
Being super easy has no meaning if you can do only the Gold or the Adamantite or the Obsidian sidequest.
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Magic medals aren't used in forging much, but can make trapezohedrons. After you massive amount of shards grinding, hopefully you have a good stock of those? You need a -lot- of trapezohedrons though, so it's surely not enough... :T
Anyway, if you only need 2 gold, it's not a big thing then. ...oh, 25 more. Well, emeralds are a -very- uncommon crafting recipe requirement, so you can probably use most (or more depending on how many of the emerald recipes you already did) to help get some of those golds. It'll save you 3~5 times you would have had to do the gold sidequest over the other Ada/Obsidian.
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The irritating part is how often you get "Three character sidequests and Terminator".
Yep, that quest is very irritating, especially if you don't need anything from that quest.
My issue is steel, since this save is from back when drops were terrible. I want to craft the final tier armors, but I need so much steel. I also need to get my character's level to 99, my power was 99 a while back.
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I synthesized everything that is not the character-specific equipment. Except for the bonus recipes.
Equipment : 91.8%(800), Lowest PLevel : PLv 97 570/999.
Got enough obsidians to synthesize everything. Probably.
Now I should gather more steel. From the New Garden of the Sun. With Izayoi Sakuya.
Probably I'll get enough Magic Medals for the Trapezohedrons while doing that.
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Well, the terminator quest selection is fine if you have a RELIABLE way of killing the terminator that doesn't take a really long time/require you to spend a significant amount of time setting up your party. And you aren't lv99 yet.
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It's interesting to see how differently all of you approached the end game gearing up. I focused first on getting all the Adamantites and Super Ajas to get everyone their best equipment, with a few trips to new Garden of Sun for common materials. Then I rushed in the Bonus Dungeon determined to beat it, no matter how many times I had to "start over" after using the save circle. :D
My party is now around lvl 92 on average, with just over 10k kills. I guess if I go level up in the last areas without touching the quest bosses, I'll reach the 15k kills around the same time as max level on everyone. But first I'll need a way to figure out how to get the last 3% on my treasure collection rate...
Btw, how many of those elemental shards are actually needed to make all the stuff? I guess my 15+ of all types in stock won't get me far.
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This isn't the Thread for it buuut, Strawberry Bose's new game trailer. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WMypFS7Otk)
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I saw it. I actually knew about Phantasmal Summoners for a while. They only just put up a trailer.
Let's pray this isn't as difficult as the first two games, because it looks like a pretty good game so far.
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Devil of Decline was actually a bit too easy for my tastes, so I hope it's harder than that.
It seems like it's a pretty Pokemon-ish sort of game, although with a lot more customization. I got an adventure game sort of vibe from those on-field abilities too, where you see a place you can't get to until you get an ability or upgrade later in the game.
e: Oh, and places like toranoana and melon books are already allowing preorders. It's 1800 Yen, which is a good price for what they claim to be a "mini RPG".
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Devil of Decline was actually a bit too easy for my tastes, so I hope it's harder than that.
Ahahahahahahaha, you've got a real sense of humor. Take another look at the final dungeon AND THEN WE'LL TALK,
This makes me worried about when I get there in my LP. I get to relive the horror. There's only so many TPKs I can take.
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Finally, I synthesized everything except the two bonus recipes.
Got enough Gold and Obsidian, but getting the Adamantites will be bothersome.
Now, I should go try to beat the Bonus Dungeon.
Play time : 308 hours, Youkai Exterminated : 24848
I'm quite sure that I'm NOT going to do this for DoD.
Unless there is a remake that has higher drop rates and recruitment rates.
Main reason I got this completed is because of the Insta-save trick.
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Ahahahahahahaha, you've got a real sense of humor. Take another look at the final dungeon AND THEN WE'LL TALK,
This makes me worried about when I get there in my LP. I get to relive the horror. There's only so many TPKs I can take.
DoD's difficulty curve is a funny thing. Before the expansion, you have three main parts: random encounters, the tower bosses and the final dungeon. The rise from the first to the second part isn't too big (unless you went for Xia first, may a divine being have mercy in your soul), but then you get to the final dungeon and there are enemies blocking your magic, insta-killing you, super Arctic Breaths, and then, finally, TANKS. Everything after the tanks is moderately difficult, but still manageable, but oh god those tanks. I still have bad dreams about those tanks and the only good way I found to beat them was praying that I'd survive and then nuke them with Cirno. Oh yeah difficulty and then you have the towers redux and the buffed bosses which are just a decent challenge as well, and then the final boss which might require a few retries but otherwise isn't as annoying as the Three Goddesses. No comment on the expansion because I am stupid and only got to the castle before forgetting this game exists. :V!
Oh yeah, and then there's grinding for shikigamis as well! 357 Great Demons I HATE YOU. No I refuse to ever try catching a Yukkuri.
Anyway, sorry for this little derail/rant. I still love the game, by the way, it's just that those tanks are a nightmare. I don't think this one will be getting a rebalancing reprint in the future, since I feel that it's just alright the way it is, even with some of the shikigami capture rates.
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The rise from the first to the second part isn't too big (unless you went for Xia first, may a divine being have mercy in your soul), but then you get to the final dungeon and there are enemies blocking your magic, insta-killing you, super Arctic Breaths, and then, finally, TANKS.
Yeah, it's like "Hey, the final dungeon just opened up! Let's go take a look... holy crap! What do you mean my party just got killed on turn 1. Yeah, run away from everything!"
It doesn't get too much easier, but yeah, THOSE TANKS.
I still don't get why Xia is harder than her tower would lead you to believe. Strawberry Bose's idea of "non-linear gameplay" doesn't make logical sense considering the average boss difficulty progression.
Main reason I got this completed is because of the Insta-save trick.
What is this "Insta-save trick" of which you speak?
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The stronger final boss wasn't too hard, using Alice, Reimu, Satori, and Nitori to cheese through everything.
Now I only have to beat the final boss of the expansion and kill and scan the fake Yukkuri.
Those fake Yukkuri. What should I do about them?
What is this "Insta-save trick" of which you speak?
Anywhere in the dungeon, open and close the menu.
Then copy the 'ここはバックアップフォルダです' file in the save\backup folder and paste it in the save folder and change the name to something like TSD000.sav.
If you restart the game without opening the menu or stepping on a magic square or do anything that might save the game, opening the save file will bring you to where you last opened and closed your menu. And the enemy encounters will be in the same order.
Simple and efficient way to do this is to open and close the menu and encounter an enemy symbol.
If it's something you don't need, run away from the enemy and repeat the first step.
If there's something you want, do the copy-paste thing and fight the enemy.
If you didn't get the drop, or Satori didn't learn the move, or the party isn't ready. etc., hit F12 to restart the game and open the save file.
The next encounter will be the same enemy party, so you can simply fight the enemy again, or change your party if you need to.
If you opened the menu, you'll have to do the copy-paste again.
It lets you fight the same enemy again and again until you get what you want, even being able to change your party, so it saves time by more than tenfold.
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Speaking of that insta-save trick, is there any particular reason it stops working sometimes, even after exiting and reloading the game, or am I just doing it wrong now? I was going spell hunting for Satori, and it worked for about half of the Scarlet Devil Mansion, then the game just decided it should kick me out of the dungeon each time I try it? I do believe I am still following the steps correctly?
1. Anywhere in the dungeon (I chose the room with the enemies I wish to fight) open then close the menu.
2. Fight the enemy. If it's what I need, proceed to next step, else kill and and restart.
3. Copy ここはバックアップフォルダです from save\backup, paste to save\ and rename to TSD001.sav (incase I screw up, so I still have TSD000.sav)
4. If for any of several reasons Satori did not learn the spell, hit F12.
5. I'm no longer in the dungeon? But it used to work, I've done it before?
Is it perhaps around step 2~3 I'm doing something wrong, do I copy it THEN fight the enemy and then paste/reset if I didn't get what I wanted? At some point I just stopped knowing how to do it correctly. :V
Anyways I've still managed to learn everything up to Palace of Earth Spirits, but it surely is taking a bit longer. :V Not that I mind grinding, I've spent more than ~1000 hours on some RPGs before so spell hunting is no real problem.
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If you were wiped out and kicked out of the dungeon some time before trying the trick, it won't work.
When you first open the save file and appear beside one of the Icons on the overworld, it might not work.
Just go to the Hakurei Shrine, step on the magic circle, then restart the game. The insta-save trick will work then.
It's good practice to do this when you want to use the insta-save trick, just to be safe.
ここはバックアップフォルダです(and TSD000.sav) still has everything you did before closing the menu, so it isn't necessary to keep the TSD000.sav intact.
Looking back, I did throw around quite a lot of information concerning the game mechanics. The Japanese wiki is awesome.
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If you were wiped out and kicked out of the dungeon some time before trying the trick, it won't work.
When you first open the save file and appear beside one of the Icons on the overworld, it might not work.
Just go to the Hakurei Shrine, step on the magic circle, then restart the game. The insta-save trick will work then.
It's good practice to do this when you want to use the insta-save trick, just to be safe.
ここはバックアップフォルダです(and TSD000.sav) still has everything you did before closing the menu, so it isn't necessary to keep the TSD000.sav intact.
Looking back, I did throw around quite a lot of information concerning the game mechanics. The Japanese wiki is awesome.
Ah, ok. I wasn't wiped out, being unharmed by really everything in there, but I did resume on the next day because I was already tired and wanted to stop, and I did indeed appear beside the SDM icon when loading the file.
So then, Hakurei Shrine magic circle before attempting. Good to know, and that also matches up with why it was working at first, as I started from Hakurei Shrine at that point.
Thanks!
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Guys, after hundreds of hours, I have finally collected all but 3 equipments..
The last 3 equipment I need are Endurance Ring 3 and 4, and the freaking Zera Beetle drop. The Zera beetle will take some time, but at least I know where to look.
Problem is, I can't find any cyclops (For endurance ring) in the lakebed temple..
I am currently searching in stage 19, right map, since I remember finding one there before, but none have appeared, I always find the demon officer or Charybdis, but no cyclops.
Are they really that rare or I'm looking at the wrong place?
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Stage 18, Party 2, a room that has a switch in it (not sure if they can actually reach it in this party or not)
I think that's where I found Cyclops.
And, yeek, Zera Beetles. I feel sorry for you there D: Grinding for every equipment drop in stage 21 without using the insta-save trick because I'm weird took like 30+ hours, and I only saw... 5? I accidentally ran from two, even, because running from stage 21 enemies was generally the norm and WHOOPS. I got the drop, at least.
It's funny though, because after running from one the second time, I found another in the one of the next few encounters, which made me feel less bad about running by accident. In general, my encounter rate for them was far higher the longer I stayed; although it was most likely just random chance (unless it's more likely for them to appear in certain maps due to encounter layouts). Like, my first was over halfway through my stage 21 grinding, and the second wasn't until a good bit later, meaning almost all of them were in the home stretch where I only had a few drops left.
Unrelated:SirBlueberry, your GoS avatar thing is nifty. :3
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Ah, found them at last, thanks man!
Now, to find those Zeras.. *sigh*
Anyway, is it possible to learn Elixir from Dragons by using Reimu's Decoy Barrier?
I never really understood how the decoy works, but it could be used for raise dead, right? Maybe other support skills can be learned using decoy as well?
I was about to test it, but then Satori accidentally landed a control on the dragon, so I learned it without testing if decoy barrier could be used to get elixir. No complaints here, though..
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I don't even know what these things look like. Are they even rarer than the chest frogs?
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They're like chest frogs in how they appear (aka in certain enemy formations they'll randomly pop up as well), but they're FAR rarer.
Notice how I said it took like 15 hours of grinding in stage 21 for drops before I ever saw one?
This is what they look like: http://puu.sh/1uwvs Don't worry about actually killing it, they're easy. As long as you aren't, like, running out of MP or get wrecked by the random enemies they happened to appear with, you're fine.
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To give a number for zera beetles, there's a bunch of formations where they have a 1% chance of appearing. Then there's Lightning Baron; it looks like there's a 10% chance each for two zera beetles to appear with him in one formation. Sadly, I have no idea where that specific formation could occur (if anywhere), as I never figured out that part of the csvs. That really does seem like the best chance of finding a zera beetle.
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The Zera Beetle with the Lightning Baron would be in the Final Room in the Bonus Dungeon.
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Yep, the lightning Baron in extra dungeon last map is the best place to farm Zera Beetles.
Using the save-anywhere trick, I found 2 Zera Beetles in 8 encounters with a Lightning Baron.
Thanks for the tip, man. I have finally completed my 100% save!
......and I don't know what I should do to pass my time
'know what? I'll just start a new game, and hope I can play DoD soon.
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okay, been a while since I played, but during my week without internet, I did a lot of shit. first thing was beating the final boss.
I had no idea what I was doing :V all I remembered was "use youmu against final boss" which was, as I assumed, the final phase.
after beating the gorgon sisters, I continued with the post-game stuff. reimu was 72, lithos 68. my team still isn't very even with their levels :V aya, for instance, is level 53. sanae is 91 :'D
obviously, I also did a bunch of item farming side-quests. and found out that lithos' is great if you want random stuff. with 12 kedama, you're bound to get a few drops. something along those lines.
(http://www.abload.de/img/unbenannt10ye33.jpg)
I have all character by now, missing only a few formations (I am somewhere at 94%) and I do not intend to get all the equipment because that requires bullshit luck and stuff. I used it all up today. getting sharpened blades, millemium mushrooms, legendary donation boxes etc from regular stage 21 enemies was really crazy.
I also got the yukkuri crown from the first yukkuri king I defeated. lol @30k base experience.
the bosses have tons of HP. the dragon and demon in stage 23 and 24 respectively were bullshit HP wise. but you know what's really bullshit? the 2 headed dragon. 1400 damage against alice? she has like 600 DEF. fuck you. I ought it twice, and the best I managed was half its HP. am I not supposed to ever fight it or what?
similar issues with everything in kourindou. I assumed my team being 90 or 91 was enough to give it a try. I fought that huge robot sphere. it destroyed everyone but alice in one hit. alice survived because stab damaged is 1/4'd for her. well, that was a failure :D
I am forced to assume that I am not supposed to do the kourindou quests until I have best equipment + max level on all my characters in the team. speaking of best equipment, when the fuck to I get the recipes for them? after beating every stage? that'd suck :< or I am dying because strategy is still not a word within my dictionary when playing :V
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Nah, you can take em on just fine at pretty much any level you can hit that part of the game at, including the 2-head dragon.
It's just that you have to be specifically prepared to take on THAT boss. For example, for the 2-head dragon, you need it set up so Alice takes just about all the hits (hourai doll and a luring slot) and has Slash resistance. Or you can spam her -90% physical damage skill. For the Terminator Mk.II, it has 0 resistance, so you use debuffs to either make it's Patk or Acc (with eva buffs on your party) very low so it does no damage or always misses. It does have Vortex, though, but you can buff/debuff specifically to take care of that issue.
Most of them are actually really easy if you're prepared, regardless of level.
Okay, there's two exceptions. The demon thing with a girl riding on it (quest for Devil Hearts) and the Elder Dragon (Dragon Fang sidequest) are actually really hard without the final tier of weapons/certain skills.
Stage 23/24 bosses? They aren't that bad HP wise, you just need to bring out Light nukes. Reimu tears them apart with Fantasy Heaven or Hell spam after being Byaku-buffed and the like, for example (Assuming light land is high). I'm not sure about the Stage 24 boss, but the dragon in stage 23 is actually completely vulnerable to HP % attacks... I'm not sure if Byakuren's 3-bomb commander skill actually halves it's HP, but stuff like Star of David from Remi should work, and that's just, holy shit.
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yeah, shame that my team is alice, youmu, patchouli, lithos and sanae :V the best light nuke I have i andromeda nebula. perhaps patchy could, too, but man. just no. I kinda don't like the idea of using her for light/dark attacks, but that's just me being fucking weird :V
well, I have no need to defeat the 2-headed dragon. it's just that I was all "wtf" when it just effortlesslly wiped out my party. for the termiator, alright. will actually prepare something next time :'D but knowing I COULD certainly reassured me.
the last time I used reimu was against Flandre in the sakuya sidequest. holy shit, 30k damage. what did she eat that day? though, light land was already at max :V so that probably helped.
okay, never fighting elder dragon and demon thing :V it's not like I need them *cough*
actually, the hydra probably just vomits breaths at you, so with aya (I never thought aya would be my MVP for any fight ever), I could probably cheese it via breath reflexion, but I can't think of another distinct weakness for the mind flayer, for example. pathetic resistance against petrify, death or paralysis, maybe?
my satori is also pathetically weak. her only decent attacking spells are thunder based, so she can't do shit against enemies strong against thunder. or magic at all. I need to get her up to the front lines soonish.
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Yes, that's just you being weird. Patch is fine for nuking light-dark, even if her cooldowns make her not ideal for it. XD Besides, um... you could always switch other people into the party? XD 20 levels doesn't make that huge of a difference, really. And people level 70ish still gain levels really fast with kourindou bosses.
Hydra is cheesed with Aya, yes. But you also need to be prepared for it to use normal attacks more often as it's health gets lower (It's normal accuracy is still pretty bad though, so, oh look, hi Ayaaaaa). If you want to actually beat it QUICKLY, though, you'll need to take advantage of some kind of Dragon-slayer-boosted nuke, or Reisen's special slayer.
Mindflayer is pretty vulnerable to instant death as long as you have the IND to get past it's RES (Not that hard). They're called grindflayers for a reason; easy exp, just throw a party in there with at least one person set up to Death it and it doesn't matter if everyone else is unequipped entirely. It misses? Go back in and try again, takes a couple seconds :D
If Satori has Mad Thunder, she's probably about fine for now (Great for attacking the Terminator, she can also debuff it, with her +success rate passives she's really accurate against it compared to, say, Byakuren). In expansion, Satori gets to the point where only NUKES are good attacks for her. She doesn't get much that does high damage in randoms; she gets more about spamming debilitating status effects like Death and Paralysis and Evervation. Her Lolicon Eye secretly inflicts Charm on physical hits. (Her better nukes apart from Mad Thunder you can't get quite yet, but oh man, Punish the Judgment)
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You can pick up Dark Giga Flare from the Spirit World Challenger though. It's like Punishment the Judgment, except it's Mystic (so, less weakness but a lot more reliable). Spirit World Challenger is not that hard anyways.
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He's not that hard, but it's kind of hard to win the damage race (Where you have to endure DGF spam until you win) without the end weapons and/or Punish the Judgment. (Not very hard afterwords, though)
Dark Giga Flare also loses a lot of power by not getting a big bonus from land. It's also much harder to get gear to boost it; with Light, you can get a whole lot of equipment to boost LGT damage drastically. Plus, many things -are- weak to Light. (not sure if DGF can be used every turn by Satori)
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As long as you have Little Legion (and an Alice heavily geared to resist mystic and magic attacks, and dark too), Reflect Wall (and about 280+ speed on Satori), and optionally Reimu (you'll need her if you want to learn DGF, and she just gives you extra turns or can deal good damage in general), you can easily buy 10+ turns to finish it off after it goes in DGF spam phase. Youmu with Doujigiri and lots of bombs, and Byakuren with Light Sword is more than enough to take him out.
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a short summary why I think hina fight is bullshit:
barriers that reflect physical and nulls magic or vice versa. aka, she's invincible.
dispel doesn't work. on her. sanae's RES buff does shit.
she fucking heals herself (presumably due to land, but fuck, I don't know)
and she has a OHKO move that does 10k-65k damage.
reimu is like the only character that can do damage even with the barriers up. fuck this fight. this isn't about challenge. if she uses the wrong attacks on the wrong turn, you're screwed (i.e, youmu's stance gets dispelled just when the barrier wears off, thus she can't attack. Or you get inflicted with curse. you either die or don't attack. etc etc)
the spirit world challenger OHKO'd me when I first met it :V if it's the enemy I am thinking of (the other boss that's on the floor with the 2-head dragon)
aside from that: yeah, beat the terminator. it was a long fight even though I used mokou and youmu with enthunder, massive ATK buff etc. 210000 is too much for the poor me :<
and yeah, the grindflayer is easy prey. sakuya killed it 2 times and she's level 58 now :V also defeated the hydra. giving aya that item that reduces hysical damage to 13% was a golden decision. she got hit like 2 times out of the 20 time she was attacked. she could eat the 30 damage pretty well :V
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Dispelling enemies require you to have good IND. Give Sanae Launch Earrings.
You kind of need Reimu for this fight anyhow, because uh, good luck getting through her last phase without her. (Basically you NEED attacks that penetrate barriers, because dispelling doesn't work in the last phase. Satori, Marisa, and Patchouli have attacks that ignore reflect, but Reimu is just easiest.) And yeah, she regenerate in Dark land, so you need to veer it towards Light (Reimu helps here again).
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I used sator's vortex and she has an IND stat of over 150. it dispelled my shit through byakuren's perfect resist. but it didn't do shit to hina at all. you can't tell me that's not enough. she poisons enemies with toxic, for fucks sake.
alright, throwing out youmu because she's actually fucking useless in this fight. this will take forever with reimu doing (approximately) 2000, possibly 3000 with max light levels per hit when it's not a spellcard. same goes to marisa, of course. but my opinion stands, this fight is absolute bullshit and more about luck than anything. if she uses the OHKO often enough, you WILL lose, no matter what you do.
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You shouldn't need any significant IND to properly dispel her; you just have to use the right kind of dispel. AKA, if she has magic reflect up, you have to use a PHYSICAL dispel (Sweeping on Satori, or Reisen), and for physical reflect you need any of the normal dispels.
I never ever had an issue with ANY dispel move not landing the Dispel quick effect on any enemy ever, and haven't seen anyone have this issue either; I've watched several people fight Hina onstream, onvideo, and done it myself.
Marisa also goes through Magic Reflection along with Reimu, and she's not hard to inflict status effects on if you have good IND, so you can debuff stack (You can also do this to make her deal no damage except via Pain Bond) and have Reisen do insane damage with her special slayer if you like.
She regens in dark land (but isn't weak to light). In order to activate the final phase, she needs 10000 hp, so you need to disable the regen with light land or a Poison status. You'll need a nuke that goes through reflection, and preferably deals 10k+ damage (Little Legion makes that not a requirement, though), but Reimu should do that perfectly fine with Fantasy Heaven or Hell and sufficient buffing.
Reimu and Sanae can also both cure the Curse status. Also, you could equip a empty star curse resist item on an attacker slower then Hina.
Pain Bond hurts, but only hits one person. Easy to fix the death via Sanae or commander Mokou. If the fight lasts anywhere long enough to where running out of bombs is even worth worrying about, something is seriously wrong.
aside from that: yeah, beat the terminator. it was a long fight even though I used mokou and youmu with enthunder, massive ATK buff etc. 210000 is too much for the poor me :<
It has really high Pdef. It's better to use magic. Patch's elec field is also super helpful because it greatly increases elec damage, as well as her being able to get elec land maxed in just a few turns with her normal spells. (Satori's Mad Thunder is hands down best attack on this boss with almost 30k damage every turn. Yuugi with the following strat or Nitori with her ostracon gun for huge tsukumogami slayer might be nice too)
Also, the mech dragon can be super murdered by Yuugi with the Oni's Metal Rod item from stage 22 and an Enwater/Weapon Bless buff. Like, it's easy to get her to hit 99999 with KOi3S+Youmu's commander 3bomb in that situation (And Storm on Mt.Ooe would still be pretty great if you don't have that) (This strat might work nice on the Terminator, didn't try it yet)
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I beat hina with reimu doing 23k damage during the last phase. I thought I was death, because I had no bombs left (sanae didn't. no mokou in commander slot, either), and alice was dead. I didn't think I'd manage the damage in one hit, but for some reason, hina became weak to light and I am still confused about that. I don't mind, though.
my satori feels really weak, though :V I know mad thunder is a great attack, but she loses out in damage to youmu, mokou and lithos, even when she's hitting a weakness with mad thunder. I did something really wrong when I was raising her :V she's "only" level 67, so that may change, but...yeah. she also needs a few more spells overall. well...soon
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Satori's nukes can't compare to your other nukers. She is there mainly for support and against stronger defense enemies where you need magical attacks over physical attacks. Until you get stuff like Punish the Judgement and Dark Giga Flare, she won't be able to keep up with Youmu, Reisen, Mokou, etc.
Youmu can force weakness on enemies with one of her stance attacks. I think it is under Devaloka. If you plan to use Youmu against the Terminator, it is best if you use the regular slashes first to decrease its defense and then use your stance skills. Against this boss, raw attack power is important, because you need to overcome that crazy defense first.
Reisen does the highest damage against the Terminator, as she can consistently hit 99,999 damage if you put 4 or 5 status effects on it.
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Youmu can force weakness on enemies with one of her stance attacks.
iirc it only reduces resistance, same with Cirno's -1 resist passives (And assumably Satori's physical resist debuff Special Missile which would be insane if it could inflict weakness)
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As far as I could tell, not so. I am not sure if it further ups the weakness, but I believe it does apply weakness. You could go from Neutral to Slash or whatever element Youmu is using to Weak towards that weapon/element. I believe I have fought an enemy and caused it to go from no glowing colors to glowing colors.
Not quite sure how Satori's Special Missile works, but yeah, Cirno's -1 resist and Remilia -1 resist seems to only apply to resistances.
EDIT: Okay, upon testing, Youmu's Heavenly Halo Dancing Slash does indeed apply weakness. It would also apply FURTHER weakness if the enemy is already weak to the weapon/element. But, it does not look at it is a full stage of weakness if the enemy is already weak to the weapon/element.
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I'm trying to get Satori to learn Vacuum Wave and/or Acala Sword. Are these skills available in the Control menu of any the enemies that have them, or do I just have to hope that they use it and hope that they use it on Satori? Which one of the skills is actually stronger?
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Some enemies have them in the control, IIRC, I just forget which ones.
It's not hard to get, though.
I think Vacuum Wave is preferred, because Acala Sword costs more (again IIRC, I have bad memory)
I prefer to use tentacle than those two anyway, since it costs even less MP and the damage dealt is not so different.
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You're right, they weren't that hard to get, even without control. I just put Satori in the front of Poison Shield formation and gave her defenses to survive the attacks. :)
I also did a bit of testing to see which of the three skills is the best one to use. Acala Sword seems to be the weakest, doing the least damage against all the enemies I tried it against (unless Tentacle was hitting for 0 damage), not to mention it's the only one of the three that has a cooldown (2 turns) with the -1 cooldowns in place. So, between Tentacle and Vacuum Wave, the latter wins in MP cost (18 vs. 15), but against low defense targets Tentacle does almost double the damage. So I would say that if you know you'll be hitting low defense enemies, use Tentacle, but if you're up against a mixed bunch, stick with Vacuum Wave to get consistent damage.
Interestingly, Acala Sword does slightly more damage against enemies with very high defense (Terminator mkII) compared to Vacuum Wave. Unbuffed and undebuffed the former was hitting for 700 damage and the latter for 400 damage.
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No, Vacuum Wave should do more damage.
Did you happen to use a spear with the Stab Resistance -1 in the skill tree? Either that, or Acala Sword one was a critical hit.
Vacuum Wave is a fixed [Slash] attack, so you won't get Slayers or Status Effects from the weapon itself.
Byakuren's Elemental Weapon and the [added damage] works, though.
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Acala Sword one was a critical hit.
That must've been it, I tested again with a few more hits (until the Terminator used Vortex and killed me...) and both skills were now hitting for 350-400 damage. Satori was using a staff (Gambantein) which shouldn't favour either attack.
Oh, about those attack types: does that fixed [slash] type mean even with a stab type weapon you'll do slash damage? Then with [? Element] the game turns to look for the weapon stats to determine the type of attack?
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Oh, about those attack types: does that fixed [slash] type mean even with a stab type weapon you'll do slash damage? Then with [? Element] the game turns to look for the weapon stats to determine the type of attack?
Yes. ? Element also means it will use things like slayers and status effects from the weapon.
There are very few fixed-elemental physical attacks, and they usually come on special weapons where you won't notice or on Satori who doesn't USE the attack ANYWAY, 98% of the time. (An exception is Nitori chasers, but her physical chasers aren't terribly popular. Knowing IND increases their damage though, I tested, and it's actually pretty nice in certain setups. Nothing glorious you'd love to abuse, but.)
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Vacuum Sword does 240% base physical damage and ignores defense. Its base hit rate is 95. (It's also fixed slash elemental as said)
Acala Sword does 200% base physical damage, and ignores defense, reflection, perfect evade, shield, and has base hit rate of 999. It also has 0 damage variance.
Basically if you use Acala Sword, you WILL hit the enemy regardless of what kind of evasive crap they may have. Vacuum Sword still checks for hit rate normally.
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Thanks for the numbers and other info Regal! I guess the never-miss feature of Acala Sword is the cause for its long cooldown.
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Acala Sword is also really fast and allows you to use ?-Elemental benefits, but. Generally, Satori doesn't have much use for sheer physical damage skills that don't have added status effects, apart from Tentacle for it's potential to actually hit pretty notable numbers in some situations, assuming you get it soon after it's available. Since it's affected drastically by defense, after buffs (and maybe debuffs) it's damage goes up more then might be expected, assuming the target has a non-insignificant pdef. It scales okay since Satori can get more physical damage bonuses from a lot of POW, but.
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One thing that Vacuum Wave DOES do for you is to drain MP back if you equip a Sacred Akiba Cherry Blossom. It's really helpful in the endurance dungeon and still pretty useful elsewhere. Tentacle can do the same job, but Vacuum Wave is more reliable.
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Acala Sword does 200% base physical damage, and ignores defense, reflection, perfect evade, shield, and has base hit rate of 999. It also has 0 damage variance.
Are you sure Acala Sword ignores perfect evade? I thought I remember dodging Acala Sword, but maybe I was mistaken.
Yes. ? Element also means it will use things like slayers and status effects from the weapon.
Does this mean Lithos' Andromeda Nebula(the light element attack skill) or whatever it is called, won't trigger slayer effect?
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Lithos's Andromeda Nebula doesn't get Slayer effects from weapons because it's Magic.
Magic Element Physical attacks (like Sanae's ELE/ETH skills or Satori's Breath skills) doesn't even benefit from Exorcism in weapons, in addition to Slayer and Status.
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Yeah, Andromeda Nebula is a magic attack, not a physical attack with Light element.
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you know, the game has become awfully repetitive when all you're doing is trying to grind and collect some rare material (most notably orihalcum, adamantite and super aja. I don't even know how much I need of these). I also occasionally do some others (lithos' quest, the king flayer). I haven't tried my hands on the elder dragon, the demon, the mechanical dragon or the guy that gives you obsidian, because I have no idea how to tackle them. I don't even feel the need to collect all that many diamonds and emeralds, though. it feels like they're less used than the other stuff.
lol@ Mokou doing 40k damage with 1 attack to the maneater plant. after having byakuren's 25 pts ATK buff, of course.
also, I've been grinding in stage 21, but are the newer stages actually better suited for that? I feel like the EXP reward is much lower than in the gorgon barrier, but I might just be imagining things. highest level is currently 95 (sanae, youmu and mokou).
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Grinding for EXP in kourindou quests is best, I think. That's why I farmed mech dragon a lot. I also combine diamond/emeralds to get Gold.
Guy that gives you obsidian is transcendent (common slayer type), weak to debuffs (By the way reisen transcendent in her slayer tree), and seriously just Byaku-debuff it and it can't do anything and will fall over to Reisen's special slayer pretty much.
Mech Dragon is weak to water, has a somewhat annoying field effect, uses non-scary slash/mystic attacks and mostly you just have to worry about Evo Breath, which Aya stops. Aya with Slash Resist spamming breath reflect does all the tanking you need, basically. Give someone the Oni's Metal Rod and enwater and they'll murder it (Yuugi can hit 99999 easy with a crit from youmu 3-bomb commander skill), or just a water based assault in general. Super easy fight, and quick if you use Yuugi like that.
Gaining high levels doesn't do much for your stats, so priority should be characters that actually learn more moves after that. Marisa/Reimu/Sakuya/Patch get lv99 moves, although Patch and Marisa likely won't use theirs a whole lot due to insane cooldown and only being mystic nukes. Lithos and Reimu have lv95/94 moves, too. Remi gets a lv90 move. Youmu gets a move at 90 and... 93? Those are all the skills past lv90, I think. (Actually, I think Reimu/Lithos have lv90 moves too, although Lithos' lv90 is useless)
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Sakuya really appreciates hitting level 99 because Quicktime rocks. Lithos also wants level 95 because Cosmic Supercluster is just straight up really damaging without need of any setup. Reimu and Youmu gets skills at level 99 and 93 respectively that are fairly useful, but nothing that really improves their standing as a character (Reimu just gets a stronger light nuke, while Youmu gets a stance that lets her use all skills). Marisa and Patchy both gets useful danmaku moves at level 92 which you may want to learn, although their level 99 skills are more or less useless. No other characters learn any skill beyond level 90 as far as I know (Satori used to have a few skills that require level higher than 90 to learn, but all of them were bumped down in weekend).
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youmu's all purpose stance doesn't give her the buffs the normal stances give her, do they? I felt my critical rate went down a lot with it as opposed when I was using munassya (I don't care how it's spelled :V). yeah, youmu got that stance on level 93.
why the fuck does it seems like reisen isn't a useless bunny in this game? that's silly :V I didn't grind her past level 50 because I thought she'd be fucking useless. as a matter of fact, I felt a lot of the newer characters weren't as useful as the older ones. I knew yuugi is a beast all along, and I have been using lithos this whole time, too (she's level 92 right now), but aside from that...
grinding characters up to level 99 is a pain in the ass, too. so having to do that with only a few is actually...helpful. still, I don't feel confident to fight most kourindou quests without my strongest team (exchange lithos for byakuren, who's 85 herself), because they all seem so bullshit :V I mean, if I don't take out the terminator maschine quickly, I will mess up with the debuffs at one point and everyone dies.
I am sure, though, I could defeat the hydra (lol), the maneater plant and the mind flayer without those. I just need mokou for the plant, aya + any strong attacker vs the hydra and sakuya for the mind flayer, but...uhh...so much EXP is needed ;_; 600k was what sanae, mokou and youmu needed for level 96. they're somewhat close, but still.
I will see what I can do. I WILL need to go through some dungeons, though. I want satori to learn as many skills as possible. I haven't used her much for sme parts of the game.
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Reisen isn't useless because her special slayer stacks for each status effect, so she can hit massive numbers on anything that can be debuffed. Like, several tens of thousands of damage per hit. And if she can get slayer or weakness on it too, she can probably hit 99999.
And, Youmu's all-stance only gives an HP buff. I'd only use it if you want Reincarnation Slash in addition to Heavenly Halo's debuff. Also on the final expansion boss, where you want Asura's AoE noncards and maybe ALSO Heavenly Halo, I dunno how easily you could land that status.
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Reisen is most useful against the Kourindou bosses and the two random abyss bosses in stage 23-24, but she isn't very much so later in the storyline, or in the endurance dungeon where she is one of the three characters that is utterly incapable of regenerating MP in any way.
Also, Remilia is pretty good at clearing randoms at least, even if she doesn't have good mass damage options against bosses. Cirno is the only one that stands out as being just... not very good. Superconductor is interesting though, and she can also inflict mass instant death (though Satori can do that as well).
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Reisen's considerable for randoms too with her mess of slayers (Permanent slayer is pretty buff for random fight skills), and her special slayer/berserkness can come in handy. And, she's actually still great against ALL the stage bosses in expansion, because they're ALL quite vulnerable to debuffs. Phase 2 of the ex-final is sped up a lot by using her special slayer, otherwise it takes forever.
Remi is beastly on random battles with Javelins, but since her high power attacks have significant cooldown, she's not that good on bosses. She can be considered on the stage 23~24 bosses since they have no resist to Star of David. She's good on the Ex-final boss 1 since she can blinktank as well as Aya and drain hp to keep herself up.
Cirno is harder to justify using. Her ability to pierce water resist makes her damage stable, but it's not particularly high either. It's probably best to try to spam Freeze with her to stop enemies from attacking; her Ice weapons are FAR better for this then her magic, and Ice Destruction allows you to deal good damage and try to inflict Instant Death at the same time as doing Freeze. She can do considerable enough damage with Ice weapon skill spamming on bosses weak to water...
but, basically, you would only use Cirno because you want to. She can be used well enough to make her a good member of your party, but she's not good enough to actually make you want to use her for her usefulness. Exception:Along with Remi, she's good in phase 1 of the final boss, except in this case it's to smash water weakness and use physical elemental attacks, without having to get Byaku-buffed for water.
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I actually enjoyed using Cirno as a tank..
She has water counter, and it fills the land quickly, so the HP regen (along with Amkieh Amulet for more regen) makes her practically immortal as long as she didn't die in one hit (resistance equipments helps). Her regen actually exceeds her max HP..
She's still not as effective as Alice, though, and while the water counter deals 1000ish damage each time she is damaged, fighting large mobs will kill her because she can only regen after the end phase. Still quite interesting to use
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okay, I have a question now: when do I get the recipes for the strongest character-specified equipment? it's not after the final boss, is it? that would be stupid
I would love to spend some of my 20 super aja I have right now ~.~
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After you defeat Existence Hater.
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Yeah, Andromeda Nebula is a magic attack, not a physical attack with Light element.
Eh? It's magic? Oh, that sucks then.
why the fuck does it seems like reisen isn't a useless bunny in this game? that's silly I didn't grind her past level 50 because I thought she'd be fucking useless. as a matter of fact, I felt a lot of the newer characters weren't as useful as the older ones. I knew yuugi is a beast all along, and I have been using lithos this whole time, too (she's level 92 right now), but aside from that...
Reisen is very strong if you can land status effects on the enemy. She does the most damage out of your characters, assuming you can land mulitple status effects. For the most part, against most bosses, status effects will land.
She's still not as effective as Alice, though, and while the water counter deals 1000ish damage each time she is damaged, fighting large mobs will kill her because she can only regen after the end phase. Still quite interesting to use
The only way to tank mass groups of enemies using Cirno is to either use Remilia as the commander and use a bomb. Or, use Sakuya's life steal field effect. You can pretty much tank anything that doesn't OHKO you.
okay, I have a question now: when do I get the recipes for the strongest character-specified equipment? it's not after the final boss, is it? that would be stupid
You get them after the Existence Hater, second to last boss. However, the final tier armor is mediocre and does not beat the final tier items you get if you face the final boss once and either lose or win. There are some amazing drops in the expansion final dungeon, if you can find those mini-bosses.
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I've been playing through this on the side whoohoo
Right before the three maids currently, but Satori just hit 50 so I'm running around getting the skills from the moon people and shisaa and whatnot first!
My one question I ran into is with Alice. I dropped all my power into both her two defensive trees and I have some leftover, but I don't know where to invest it! None of them seem really appealing, especially her weapon line. When it says shield effects halved for the 5 power on Greaves, does that mean for her or the enemy?
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It means the opponent's chance to shield your attack is halved.
You can put the spare points in VIT if you want, although the +RES and +Bomb from her other two innate trees can be useful, especially the +RES ones. A tank under a dangerous status is no tank after all. The 10% physical deflect from boots 10 is also considerable, although I usually don't have Alice wearing any greaves until stage 27.
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Beat the Great Hydra for the first time. I ignored Reisen in favor of Sakuya with the Kusanagi and Dragon Fang Strike. It worked wonders. Plus I got two Orichalcums from it. Now I wait for it to roll around again so I can get more Orichalcum so I can make more unique weapons. I want Mokou's ultimate pre-expansion weapon so badly.
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You mean Godhand? It isn't that impressive. Phoenix Hand, her ultimate item in the expansion is good though, since it does the Burn effect and has a high bonus to critical hit.
Against Great Hydra, if you plan to just use pure Dragon Fang Strike, Remilia is your best bet.
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You mean Godhand? It isn't that impressive. Phoenix Hand, her ultimate item in the expansion is good though, since it does the Burn effect and has a high bonus to critical hit.
Against Great Hydra, if you plan to just use pure Dragon Fang Strike, Remilia is your best bet.
I kind of NEED the God Hand to get the Phoenix Hand, though, remember? Plus I need Super Ajas, which I don't have either. And I haven't even unlocked that tier of items yet, so...
I haven't really been playing that much, and I HATE the Garden of the Sun's puzzle. As if I needed to be reminded of Salerno Academy...
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I kind of NEED the God Hand to get the Phoenix Hand, though, remember? Plus I need Super Ajas, which I don't have either. And I haven't even unlocked that tier of items yet, so...
I haven't really been playing that much, and I HATE the Garden of the Sun's puzzle. As if I needed to be reminded of Salerno Academy...
I feel you. I hated it both times, too. I just think it's entirely retarded. and annoying. REALLY annoying.
I still haven't played ever since I got my 16th super aja or so. I really don't feel like playing stage 26, or grind everyone else up to decent levels <.<
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Hina... beaten...
Holy crap, that was a close call. Thankfully Fantasy Heaven or Hell is amazing and dealt almost 20000 damage during Hina's final phase. She had no chance to counter.
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switch puzzle in Bhava-agra we meet again....arrgh.
At least I finally got my very first emerald ever now, yayyy.
Now i didnt get my first diamond, i got 2 from 1 battle against 2 voids! Eeeeek. Hopefully my alice wont get 1shot by enemies despite having armored panties/full body cushion now that she has their upgrades yay.
Also, regalstar, i notice you seem to know alot of technical data, is this via the japanese wiki? I tried looking at it but alot of the names for monsters and skills are just wtf to me (after google trollolanslate) so i dunno what is what qq.
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Sorry for double post but question and nobody will see it if this stays in page 2.
Where in stage 20 do i find chimera's? Wiki says the center area but ive engaged+flee from dozens of enemy spawns there and ive only seen dem hydras multiple times, but no chimera.
Also, i havent played for a longass time until recently so what kind of damage does two headed dragon do again? Pierce/slash/bash? I ask cuz i have the 12.5% pierce and bash resist amulets but i havent even got the 25% sword one yet (trying to farm dantes but they stubborn), thanks.
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Dragon's have slash-type physicals. At least all the ones I've noticed. 2-headed is definitely Slash.
Chimeras are mostly in the room on the upper right side of the "deeper" part of stage 20, I think. That's where I'd usually notice them when I was farming that place for various things, at least.
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slash?! it just HAD to be the element I don't have a good amulet for. AGHAHGASGH.
Thanks though, killed 60ish dante's since weekend upgrade, with gamer fan, drop rate is 4% (without gamer fan, not sure what gamer fan does exactly) supposedly, still no drop, whyyy whyyyy.
Also, possibly pro-tip (cough) for anybody doing the learning thing. If you're trying to get shield wall, I STRONGLY do not suggest fighting the phalanx dudes in stage 19. I spent like 5 hours trying to do that, and they NEVER EVER EVER casted shield wall while charmed. I give up and try the ones in stage 18, and bam, worked first fight. Thought 19 would be better since I didn't have to worry about group splitting crap between mp circle heal things, and since they tend to spawn in groups of 2 there instead of 1.
Acala sword still looks too tedious to get. Dem lizardmen don't seem to control ever, and my satori gets lolwtfpwnt by virtually everything that hits her at this point still...not to mention that move seems to nearly 1shot my alice, let alone satori.
I should prob just try to win the game again and get the better gamer fan and go back to this stuff but I have this drive to kill every single pre-lingering trash enemy there is before I beat the game, and 2 headed dragon (and a couple of the other stage 21 elites iirc) still proved too badass for my party.
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Gamer fan barely makes a difference... I think? They might have buffed it. I wouldn't know.
Support moves like Shield Wall tend to not get cast while charmed, as well as not being in the control list. You have to interrupt them with Charm when it's already queued up to be cast. So, basically, you can only get it on the turn you inflict charm.
If you use accessories to pull off a tank Satori, Acala sword might not be so annoying to get via a bait slot like Poison Shield formation. I think I just controlled, but I don't remember. I recall having issues landing control before they ran out of most of their mp... plus they tended to cast Acala Sword right after being controlled and then welp no more mp plus I stopped Satori from getting hit :I
I wouldn't worry about it too much. It doesn't have a lot of use apart from mp drain in extra dungeon, which Vaccuum Wave and Tentacle can also handle.
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It seems to ignore defenses though so I thought it might be great for yukkuri's =P (yeah I know multihits work good but if it ignored the yukkuri-specific defense thing who knows).
And I'm pretty sure lizard knights immune to control. I gave byakuren launch earrings 4, and laaunch earrings 2, and I growth-specced her for max charm success, and I used all up + hyper trigger, AND I used youmu commander res-debuff...failed control like that about 15 times outta 15, I gave up. Granted I didn't put on sexy underwear because I don't have any, but I don't wanna go thru that trouble for 1 move.
And like I said, I have no good anti-slash tank pieces, so.. 1 meteorzapper (or any other slash attack no doubt) and bye bye satori qq.
Found a Chimera, got its shield to drop first kill. Too bad I'm not sure if I even like it, all my current shields have more than 2X more resistance, why coudln't dante drop his damn flyer on the first kill, whyy.
edit: Still no olympic fliers. decided to clear out 21f while I wait for them dantes to respawn. Got my first kills of bash, hecto-whatever.. the 7 arm giant dude, and crom caunch...Who dropped a giant snakeskin! Woot. I also killed a few more druids (already scragged one back when I was like 45-50 lol), another capricorn king yukkuri, and a couple bhodi trees.
I feel pretty lucky overall though because I also got a drake scale from a lesser dragon, and a high ribbon from a machine dragon, turbo-yay! Haven't seen 2 headed dragon or the mega demon thing again unfortunately. IIRC Pendragon was one of the easiest of the bunch, I killed it first try way back when I was 45-50...Bumped into one now, first turn, meteorzapper, full party but alice ko.. nooo. whyyy. I thought he was like bash where he just uses single hits, doh.
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I decided to forget completing all the trash before killin baws cuz double dragon just wouldnt spawn (killed 7 lightning barons...). That and that marisa yukkuri juat didnt seem doable for me (my best efforts hit for 30... 30!)
So yeah im starting lingering content for the first time, got cirno so far but did some wiki reading. It says i cannot re-do character quests, but according to the bestiary, some enemies only spawn in level 1 quests. I assume this means 1 star difficulty. Does this mean those monsters are perma missable if i finish cirno and nitori before i find em all?
Also is lithos pegasus bomb useless for everyone or just me? I tried it 5 times so far and got less than 4 hits every time, muscle revolution seems the way to go.
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The drop you want to farm is from the 6 armed giant thing. He drops the Zeus' Robe which upgrades in to the awesome Golden Cassock, which is probably one of the best armor in the game. And that gets upgraded further into the Sacred Clothes, which is just godly.
For the damage type, there are two things you can pay attention to. How they attack or their weapon type. Fangs would be slashing, fists would be bludgeoning, etc. I think you can also pay attention to the animation and see what damage type it is. I think a diagonal looking animation is slashing. A horizontal looking animation is pierce. Not quite sure if that is true or not, but I think it is.
Defense ignoring attacks don't work too well on Yukkuri's in general. They have all sorts of barriers and resistances. Marisa Yukkuri, I think you can do damage if you have resistance lowering weapons, like that one sword that ignores slash resistance.
Which enemies only spawn in level 1 quests? In the last character quest, there is a room underground that spawns earlier expansion enemies. For that quest, it is a dungeon, so the enemies won't go away.
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Yes, you can find all the quest enemies in the bottom of Stage 22, in a large rewardless area filled with monsters. It's easier to farm most of the drops/satori skills in dedicated stages, though... (Like the Alice/Marisa quest has very common giant catfish spawns near the end of the forest, even often multiple in one battle)
Marisa Yukkuri (Darkonium) can be raped by Satori's void magic after you manage to learn Medoroa off Ambivalence, or Medullite Beam off the yukkuri itself. Apart from that, you just have to smash it with physicals... and you do need to use your strongest ones. Unlike normal yukkuris with their cheating, I do think resistance ignorance works on them, so you could try using a Spear for their pow tree resist reduction. But you definitely have to buff up and go all out like it's a boss fight, before you have Satori void stuff. You might be able to try Acala Sword on it with a spear if you learned that with Satori so she can ignore def -and- pierce some resistance... (Vacuum Wave is slash-type, doesn't work)
As for Lithos' bomb, it's luck dependent, really. It's predispositioned to get higher hits rather then low ones, though. But since it has the COOLDOWN advantage over Muscle Revo (unless you use a spear to reduce revo cooldown) it's definitely better. With a little luck it should reliably do more damage per hit, anyway. Keep in mind that Revolution has incredibly high accuracy though, if you need it. ...and that Pegasus is kinda inaccurate, pay attention to Lithos' acc.
Combining Byakuren's elemental enchants with Lithos' magic tree skill Rainbow Wings for 50% boost elemental damage is useful on Pegasus spam.
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All character quest enemies can be refought at stage 22. The fifth floor of that dungeon is specifically for those enemies.
Also, you do know you can easily farm for drops by abusing the system backup save, right?
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Thanks about stage 22 i was nervous about proceeding.
As for armor drops, err uhh. Thanks for the tip but i said 2 head dragon wouldnt SPAWN, not that i couldnt kill it =p. though that may be the case too, wont know until it spawns qq.
As for abusing the system backup save... Im not sure if i know or not. I would goto save circle, hit menu, attack a mob, and reset with f12 if the spawn wasnt something i wanted, remenu on the save, try again, repeat. This works fine for farming bash/marisa thing, kin yukkuri, and crom caunch (and hydras) but is not very helpful for the other rarespawns when they fail to spawn acter like 20 resets.
Plus i killed normals that had goodies i wanted like drake scales and high ribbons too. But yeah, is there a more efficient method i dont know about?
As for marisa thing, 30 WAS with my resistance lowering lol. Sakuya smacked it for 30ish (3 times) using that 3 hit attack and her 2handers -2 slash resist. Youmu using kusangi would only hit for like 9.
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Full moon revenge is terrible, especially against a high defense enemy, her random chance multihit noncards/spellcards would be better. Having her and Youmu go at it (Gradually) while Satori sits around to learn the skill would work, or going to get Medoroa from Ambivalence (entining wings guy who is also in stage 21, same room as with the 6 armed giant thing that drops the zeus robe) since that deals almost all of Darkonium Marisa's hp in one hit.
Only hit for 9 after Weapon Bless while using skills?
But it does sound like this guy still carries yukkuri shenanigans to ignore resist stuff like that.
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my youmu can "oneshot" (like, if the attack has 4+ hits with a critical or two) the darkonium marisa with kusanagi, so I think you are doing something terribly wrong. and that's without weapon bless. You might wanna fix that somehow.
as for me. I haven't played since forever. no progress on anything whatsoever. I might wanna start playing again, huh? :V
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That was with stance and allup... I know i could do better but i was trying a build thhat was more bash AND marisa comaptible rather than just one.
As for full moon, i find it works much better than sakuya's jack spells except her 24 mp bomb, but thats a bomb with a cd so yeah.
Bear in mind im still lacking enough pows to get her 25 point "increase multihit" thing without severely gimping other important things (such as acc stuff and -2 slash resist)... Acc very important for me since i don have ice sword yet with its 40+ greater acc.. Sakuya tends to swoosh alot even WITH headshot googles 4. She was a monster before floor 21 though.
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Stance and All Up is okay, but what you want is Weapon Bless. It is much stronger than All Up. Also, how effective your buff is is determined by IND. Make sure your buffers have 100 IND. I heard that more than 100 doesn't matter, so 100 is what you want to hit.
I think there is a sword called the mithril sword(forgot the name) that has a special ability of completely ignoring slash resistance. It is useful in some fights, but not that useful, since it is only one of the mid tier swords pre-expansion.
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I just got yuugi now (and everyone else, though not really 'just' in their case), went back to farming dantes (havent revissited old content unless quest) with my new pro gamer axe... Olympic flyer continues to elude me, whyyyy. Anyway after i kill all their spawn areas imma go back to 21 and farm rarespawns again and see how loleasy they are now that my cast is like 10-15 levels higher, includes some new seemingly op people, and have several major gear upgrades due to craftable tier 2 character materials.
I wanna rekill the final boss again too =p. might use remi to evasiontank phase 1, not sure how thatll work.
Also, does clearing new bonus quests for the first time count for anything akyu-recipe unlock-wise? Or does she only reward you on main story quests?
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main story only
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For the "solve X requests" recipes (1 - ostracon equips, 4 - elemental armors, 8 - advanced character materials, 16 - accessory Vs), any type of quest will do.
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For the "solve X requests" recipes (1 - ostracon equips, 4 - elemental armors, 8 - advanced character materials, 16 - accessory Vs), any type of quest will do.
In my experience this was not true, but if it works for anyone else, then sure.
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seems to be story only. I've done 13 story quests and still no 16 unlock..and yeah I've done a hella lot more than 3 bonuses. did the sane+aya+nitori one, nazrin, mystia+wriggle,rumia, lithos solo, patchy duo, maybe a couple others.
finally got my olympic flier, yay. Went to 21, killed a couple more bashes, got an obsidian armor, not sure if useful. Killed a marisa doki-whatever too (seemed to take much more damage this time around for virtually no reason), found ambivilence for the first time, got medora, AND holy grail to drop, again not sure if useful though. Killed 4 hectonecheirs and got squat qq (pro gamer fan included of course).
Found my first zera beetle, with 2 robo dragons...I said oh crap, used stardust barrier, AND last word full party camo AND little legion on the first turn. *evolution breath'd alice dies, evolution breath'd, full party wipe before anybody else moved*.. seriously? evolution breath op. Maybe not so bad if I gear right, but I was more geared for taking on hecto+ambililences, not robo dragons.. qq.
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Yeah, evolution breath hurts. Try to do as much damage as possible if you see them. They are weak to water. All breath attacks get weaker if the user has less HP.
Maybe solve X quests, means solve X different quests? So, if you do a repeated quest, it doesn't count?
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Star, he listed at least six different quests apart from the story ones. In my experience, it was ONLY the required story missions, and he's pretty much getting the same result as me.
Obsidian Armor is fabulous because it gives you resistance to all the physical elements. This makes anyone who can equip medium armor kinda tanky.
Holy Grail is fabulous because it's a really good weapon for Reimu (and boosts needle damage, which the goheis don't), but it does get outclassed be her final gohei. Whether or not the orichalcum gohei is better or not is uncertain, because the Grail will give a lot more matk and almost as much direct damage boost plus all the exorcism.
It's forever important for Satori after you get her fabulous light skills (Punish The Judgment is one of the strongest attacks in the game (including factoring in character stats and such) and has 0 cd after pow tree) Medoroa is great, by the way. If you cast spell enhance you should be able to get at least 7k damage on turn one on any target with it. It's pretty expensive though, obviously, but is a miracle for stage 21 grinding.
Also, damn, bad luck with that Zera Beetle :c
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> I fought a zera beetle once and didn't think anything of it. because it appeared together with like 3 other enemies, I thought it was a regular.
it was my first playthrough the stage, so I just went apeshit in that fight. (like on every fight). didn't get the drop, though :V
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Well, I'm just posting to say that I managed to beat the last boss from expansion mode~! My strategy was:
First party: Nitori, Remilia, Sakuya, Byakuren, Patchouli (Cirno) [Hinotori Sky Dance]
Second party: Lithos, Mokou, Reisen, Satori, Reimu [Hypnotic Bullet]
Third party: Alice, Aya, Yuugi, Sanae, Marisa (Youmu) [Hinotori Sky Dance]
First party:
I made Sakuya use Private Square + Full Moon Revenge on Red Teeth first to eliminate the thing quickly. Patchouli for elemental attacks (especially light elemental ones to deal good damage to Green Teeth). Nitori was there to use stuff like Zero Kelvin Buster and Rage Eight, while Remilia was just spamming Red the Nightless Castle. (But Sakuya and Patchouli were still the main damage dealers). Byakuren for buffs as usual... and Cirno as commander just to attempt freezing the two bosses whenever possible.
Second party:
Satori and Reisen for debuffing Fish Head (the former for healing ocasionally as well). Mokou for primary damage dealer (Fujiyama volcano + Fujiyama Big Eruption whenever Fish Head was alone on the arena). Reimu for healing and Duplex Barriers, while Lithos was there to use Cosmic Supercluster in order to clean the field whenever the mirrors showed up (sometimes to inflict Toxic on Fish Head with her ultimate tier Rapier as well).
Third party:
Alice: For protecting with Little Legion/Hourai Doll/London Doll/Russian Doll/etc.
Aya: To use Tengu Support whenever necessary and Tengu's fall wind so Yuugi's attacks may connect to the boss.
Marisa: For Triple Spark and Quickned Master Spark/etc to eliminate the elemental flames from the field.
Yuugi: To use Knockout in three Steps on Ressentment's Incident whenever it was alone on the field for greater damage.
Sanae: To buff Yuugi's attack power and use Ritual for the Godly Winds + Wind of Miracles to increase the party's max HP. (I also adjusted her growth tree and gave her El Moriya Yasaka so all of her cooldowns are set to 0). As such, she was able to cast Wind of Miracles every turn, and make the party's HP bypass 2K easily. (With Miracle of Otensui she was able to easily recover the party's HP by great amounts as well).
(Youmu): To increase Yuugi's critical hit chances.
Overall, I found Sanae to be a far, far more efficient supporting character on the last party than Byakuren. Mainly due to her better healing capabilities and because she managed to make everyone's HP so big that the party was even able to resist the boss's strongest attacks ocasionally, even while Alice was not protecting.
I have the video of my battle recorded, so, I'll later upload it to youtube so you guys may see the strategy more clearly. (It's also showing my characters' equipment)
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First party:Sakuya can deal far superior damage with her non-2h sword noncards. As well, Cirno is an effective damage dealer with her Ice Weapons. And with all those +wtr weapons, Nitori can bring out her chasers to great effect. If you have Patchouli attack with the 10k kills recipe water/elec dagger (Not as bad of an idea as it sounds, seriously) she can deal full damage to the 999 mdef head and Nitori can get two chase hits off her instead of one, as well. You really shouldn't need Byakuren in this phase, but if you aren't using her in the final one then she just exists to make this or the next one go faster.
WTR boosting field on Patch is, of course, used to boost -everyone's- damage significantly (Also benefit from land manipulation since it will max in one or two turns) as well as since she's so slow she'll go after the bad field effect the enemy uses.
Remi blinktanks in front with Poison Shield and 150+ eva (spamming vampire drill for hp drain, strong spellcards when you feel like it) and Nitori's camo helps the party survive random Meteors or attacks that still hit the back on turn one or later. The magic gate should die to private square or just in general (with the alternative opener of sakuya's lv85 spellcard), almost instantly, because it dies so fast to this setup it's not even funny.
Second party is only really helped out by having Reisen nuke the boss after you get several debuffs+poison on it. She should be able to get way higher numbers then Mokou very, very easily.
IMO Youmu>Yuugi as the attacker for the last phase, but if Yuugi was turning out high numbers too then whatever works! Youmu and Yuugi both have AoE noncards to attack flames with so it's covered in that aspect, too... what kind of damage did Yuugi get with KOi3S anyway?
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First party:Sakuya can deal far superior damage with her non-2h sword noncards. As well, Cirno is an effective damage dealer with her Ice Weapons. And with all those +wtr weapons, Nitori can bring out her chasers to great effect. If you have Patchouli attack with the 10k kills recipe water/elec dagger (Not as bad of an idea as it sounds, seriously) she can deal full damage to the 999 mdef head and Nitori can get two chase hits off her instead of one, as well. You really shouldn't need Byakuren in this phase, but if you aren't using her in the final one then she just exists to make this or the next one go faster.
WTR boosting field on Patch is, of course, used to boost -everyone's- damage significantly (Also benefit from land manipulation since it will max in one or two turns) as well as since she's so slow she'll go after the bad field effect the enemy uses.
Remi blinktanks in front with Poison Shield and 150+ eva (spamming vampire drill for hp drain, strong spellcards when you feel like it) and Nitori's camo helps the party survive random Meteors or attacks that still hit the back on turn one or later. The magic gate should die to private square or just in general (with the alternative opener of sakuya's lv85 spellcard), almost instantly, because it dies so fast to this setup it's not even funny.
Thanks for informing me about this strategy... I'll try it out once I get my GoS to work again... (Since I recently formated my computer, it's giving me this strange error, even though I apparently have DirectX 9.0c installed already, according to my dxdiag):
(http://i.imgur.com/gHdTyD0.png)
And if someone can tell me a way to install japanese language packs without the windows XP CD, I'd be glad... because mine apparently stopped working. *roll eyes*
Second party is only really helped out by having Reisen nuke the boss after you get several debuffs+poison on it. She should be able to get way higher numbers then Mokou very, very easily.
Well... the problem is that it was being hard to put debuffs on the boss, even though I was using Hypnotic Bullet as my formation for more IND. By the way, what attack should I use to get the high damage output after several debuffs?
IMO Youmu>Yuugi as the attacker for the last phase, but if Yuugi was turning out high numbers too then whatever works! Youmu and Yuugi both have AoE noncards to attack flames with so it's covered in that aspect, too... what kind of damage did Yuugi get with KOi3S anyway?
Yuugi's equipment:
Galaxy
Reflexes
Guardian Deity Armor
Launch Earrings IV (for criticals)
Awakened Soul (more bombs)
High Ribbon (to resist the boss' elemental attacks)
PATK = 799
IND = 76
[Also, my Sanae's IND was exactly "100" because I gave her Launch Earrings V, so she may give better buffs)
[Note that even though A. Muscle Suit gives a physical enhance to the user, I decided to give her to Alice instead of Yuugi because said armor also gives resistance to all physical types. So... with that + Kagami/Magatama and Rainbow Kamikaze Greaves, she was able to get a Star on every single element. That helped her quite a lot)
Now for the damage numbers according to my video:
1st KOi3S (One Wind of Swords + Six Realm Swords) = 23K
2nd KOi3S (No Critical) = 10K
3rd KOi3S (Wind of Swords + Oni's Roar + Six Realm Swords + Wind of Miracles) = 13K [low damage because there was one resentment flame on the field]
4th KOi3S (All of the above + Yasaka's divine wind) = 34K
5th KOi3S (All of the above again + another 2 Wind of Miracles) = 46K
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Oh yeah, Youmu would probably deal way more damage.
You need the jap locale on, probably, for the issue.
Fish face shouldn't be too hard to debuff with proper setting up for it (ind, satori's id tree, etc) and then you use Lunatic Red Eyes and Disorder Eye, with Reisen's tree that prevents dispelling of bad status.
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I just managed to beat the expansion boss as well and on my first try, having read the wiki about what to expect. I have to say, my party setup looks quite different from the one you posted, Magic.
Party 1: Aya, Sakuya, Nitori, Sanae, Mokou (Sunshine Lunch)
Party 2: Remilia, Lithos, Reisen, Satori, Yuugi and Patchouli (Sunshine Lunch)
Party 3: Alice, Byakuren, Youmu, Reimu, Marisa and Cirno (Sunshine Lunch)
With my setup, the first phase was pretty much an endurance race I had no chance to lose, much thanks to Sanae.
My second party looked good on paper, but due to some very bad luck Satori died on the second turn before she had a chance to heal (I think I messed up setting her defenses somehow). So basically I did the whole second phase without a single heal, with only Lithos and Yuugi standing in the end. :D
My third party had my traditional trio of Alice, Byakuren and Youmu for tough boss fights, so I knew I couldn't go wrong with it. Add Reimu for barriers and Marisa for nuking and it was a very easy finish.
I had a level average of 95 and all the best equipment available, I doubt I could've won the second phase with lower levels. With 172 hours and 15171 kills, I think I'm finally done with the game. :)
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With 172 hours and 15171 kills, I think I'm finally done with the game. :)
Did you do the endurance dungeon?
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Did you do the endurance dungeon?
Yea I completed it when my party was around lvl 85 on average, and then I had to rack up over 6k kills to get the last set of recipes in order to make Solideo and All-Protector. It probably wasn't the smartest order of doing things, but atleast I got a challenge out of it. :D
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Sorry if this is too long feel free to remove all below. Here's a copy of the post here for anyone interested: http://pastebin.com/iLGcD7xp
Sanae's Star Ritual Godly Winds (+Wind of Miracles) and Mokou's Xu Fu's Dimension can be used together to attain 999 HP Regen on every turn, since Xu Fu's Dimension gives regeneration equal to X% of Max HP (calculated on target's Max HP and Mokou's IND), calculation ignores Missing HP so healing isn't required. The amount of HP recovered per turn won't be down after Star Ritual Godly Winds ends, even if the character's HP is below 999 it will still recover 999 per turn. Like this, Perfect Regen:
(http://i.minus.com/jSre6wbbBKbY0_xs.jpg) (http://minus.com/lSre6wbbBKbY0)
Xu Fu's Dimension Regen amount depends on Mokou's IND, at 31 IND it will recover 238 HP on a 999 HP character (24% Max HP), meaning Xu Fu's Dimension must be cast with at least 4300 Max HP to get 999 HP Regen. There are two methods to lessen this situation (which can be mixed as well), using equipment or with Byakuren on the party (besides Sanae & Mokou).
With Equipment:
If Launch Earrings IV are equipped (IND +60) on Mokou, regen will recover 38% Max HP (378/999 HP), Launch Earrings V (IND +75) will regenerate 40% Max HP (398/999 HP), like with Elemental Equipment there is no stacking, if both are equipped only the highest one has priority and the lesser will be ignored (resulting equally in 238+160=398 HP Regen). Using WoM + Xu Fu's will regen 34% Max HP (without accessories), 49.5% (494/999 HP) with LEIV and 52% (520/999 HP) with LEV equipped on Mokou.
This seems to be true for all boosts as well, guess having Launch Earrings distributed between Satori and Byakuren is for the best.
With Byakuren:
Byakuren's Hyper Trigger on Mokou (with Empowered Buffs 4) will give 40% Max HP Regen, and with Wind of Miracles this will actually give 52% Regen (520/999 HP) regeneration, both can be used in the first turn alone, but unlike with equipment Xu Fu's has to be used on the 2nd turn since she is likely to be slower than Mokou.
1st : Wind of Miracles + Hyper Trigger [on Sanae] (WoM effect ignores order, it applies equally to boosts before and after cast statuses)
2nd: Star Ritual Godly Winds + Hyper Trigger [on Mokou]
3rd : Xu Fu's Dimension (since Byakuren is likely to be slower than Mokou it is more practic to wait until this turn)
Result: Current Max HP 190% -> Regeneration 99% of Base HP. No Accessories used. Alternatively:
3rd : Wind of Miracles + Xu Fu's / ex: Current Max HP 222% -> Regen 128% Base HP (500HP on Satori at Lv99). No Accessories used.
WoM turns -> Regen 158% Base HP (618) -> Regen 173% Base HP (678) -> 233% Base HP (910) -> 256%+ Base HP (999).
Satori is used in the example to represent the worst possible scenerio, she has the lowest HP of all characters (7th Turns at best/11th at worst to get 999 regen), turns she needs to reach around 2000HP, ideally one casts this starting from highest HP character and ending with the lowest one, since at 3rd turn Regen is equal to 128% Base HP any character with health higher than 780 HP will reach 999 Regen in this turn.
With Equipment:
1st : Star Ritual Godly Winds [Launch Earrings IV Equipped] + Mokou's Launch Earrings V Equipped [or + Hyper Trigger (On Mokou)]
2nd: Wind of Miracles + Xu Fu's Dimension [100% Base Health Regen on this turn / Base Health +85% -> +115% HP next time WoM is used]
Modified by Sanae's Equipment [IND doesn't affect WoM at all, but it does affect the amount of HP gained by SRGW]:
None : 81% Base Health Recover
Launch Earrings IV : 100% Base Health Recover
Launch Earrings V : 106% Base Health Recover
IND raising Equipment pairing doesn't stack, like with Elemental Resistances, the best gear is the one which will take priority for number calculations, same goes for Buffs highest one has priority or either the cap is too low, ex: Kusanagi + Launch Earrings IV should exceed Launch Earrings V, but it has no effect.
It is not necessary to aim for 999 Regen, only use of this would be to counter fixed turn damage like Toxic or Damage Net, etc. This makes possible to have a 5 character party and reach 999 Regen for all characters during a single cast of Star Ritual Godly Winds, supposing conditions are optimal, this doesn't require Sanae last weapon from the expansion but she has to have Lv.70 in order to use WoM.
Xu Fu's Dimension Regen cap is set at 999 like most enemies (999), however Field/World skill like Genesis don't have this cap, as seen Byakuren and other characters with regen as well as regenerative equipment are able to go over this cap.
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This can be used to boost Alice's Straw Doll Kamikaze into really high damage since Straw Doll Kamikaze damage calculation is based on two multipliers (Current HP/PATK). It does still consumes too many bombs, the only upsides being it attacks all enemies (ignores EVA ?, like magic and can do critical), and if Alice has "Kicking Demon" there is a chance she might use it twice, the second time not consuming two additional bombs and only consuming MP. She will deal about x12.5 damage of her sacrified HP at around 400 PATK.
Damage Scaling: Base (with Unique Attack Enhance) <-> +Weapon Bless <-> + SRGW at 5704 HP
(http://i.minus.com/jb0I4raIAO0b1S_xs.jpg) (http://minus.com/lb0I4raIAO0b1S) <-> (http://i.minus.com/j15MNGDwuk63r_xs.jpg) (http://minus.com/l15MNGDwuk63r) <-> (http://i.minus.com/jbciVsZmCIOrkh_xs.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbciVsZmCIOrkh)
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If Launch Earrings IV are equipped (IND +60) on Mokou, regen will recover 38% Max HP (378/999 HP), Launch Earrings V (IND +75) will regenerate 40% Max HP (398/999 HP), like with Elemental Equipment there is no stacking, if both are equipped only the highest one has priority and the lesser will be ignored (resulting equally in 238+160=398 HP Regen).
Pretty cool stuff, but some questions.
Induction items don't stack? And what do you mean by Elemental Equipment not stacking? Can you elaborate? Elemental regen, damage boost, resistance?
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It's not that IND equipment doesn't stack, it's because having over 100 IND has no more effect on boosting the strength of 'Good Variety' status effects.
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From what I remember Xu Fu's Dimension regen seems to cap around 55%~ Max Health, or moves really slowly beyond 52%, so is a waste of turns to wait to boost it more, basically 2000~hp will give 999hp regen at best.
It's not that IND equipment doesn't stack, it's because having over 100 IND has no more effect on boosting the strength of 'Good Variety' status effects.
Thanks, that confirms the cap being low then, are there any other know stats caps/limits?, I remember seeing a formula for IND vs RES equaling in turn duration for Bad Statuses, this can be observed in game.
I couldn't test this properly at all since I don't have the lesser Launch Earrings after forging IV/V, and there is equipment in the game that sadly can't be readquired after synthesis. Some of the enemies' exclusive shields would have been a nice incentive, like the Athena's New Shield for beating the harder version of the final boss, for Lithos at least (Perseus' is there, with proper effect and all but is not the same).Pretty cool stuff, but some questions.
Induction items don't stack? And what do you mean by Elemental Equipment not stacking? Can you elaborate? Elemental regen, damage boost, resistance?
I meant Element Resistance, and by stackable I meant equipping a character with 2 pieces of gear that boost the same attribute, there are two exceptions (explained below), take ● (50% Resistance) for example:
ex: ●火 (Fire) Armor + ●火 (Fire) Accessory = ●火 (50%) Fire Resistance (not ★ 100%, nor ☆ 87.5%, and neither ◎ 75% resistance)
IND has been answered and confirmed, I can rewrite it if it is too confusing now that there is exact info. I meant stacking cap/limits isn't explained in the game, but out of the top of my head:
Element Resistance: only stacks with a negative/positive resistance innate to character resistance, or to counter a negative one gained by equipment.
Breath Damage Reduction: stackable up to 100% reduction [ex: Phoenix Robe 50% + Hiryu's Lance 50% resistance]
Divine/Physical/Magical Barrier: up to 90% damage reduction [Obsidian Blade has divine barrier]
Physical Null: up to 90% chance (there are only two kind of items with this property I believe, technically not stackable)
Death Resistance: up to 90% (Shinigami Formation) [no stacking here?]
This last is not explained anywhere and would be extremelly helpful to know and avoid cheap deaths, or wrong gear placement:
1- When using Shinigami Formation; all equipment with Death Resistance and resistant abilities like Conquer Death 1+2 are render void, only Sanae's 100% Resistance will go higher and anything equipped is dead weight (RES of course does wonders) ?
2- Two separated calculations, one for formation chances, and a second for character (equipment) chances ? (unlikely)
3- ex: Shinigami Formation 90% + 50% Death Resistance = 95% Death Resistance ?
Another one that should work based on element resistance is this, for Sakuya: Conquer Death 2 + Death Guard (or any 50% Quick gear) should give Sakuya 87.5% (or 90%) Resistance to Death, if they do stack, but this can't be checked in game at all.
I am leaning for the first I have seen extra RES (stat) preventing death, but adding death resistant gear doesn't seem to help.
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Dumb question with wand of miracles. Do i cast wand first THEN a diff buff? Or the other way around? I imagine wand first.
Also if i have a buff enjoying the effects of multiple wands, then i "recharge" it with byakuren when the wand wears off, does it turn gimp or does the uber version remain?
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Also if i have a buff enjoying the effects of multiple wands, then i "recharge" it with byakuren when the buff wears off, does it turn gimp or does the uber version remain?
Fixed your quote, because I think that's what you were trying to mean. Otherwise, if you really meant "when the wand wears off" then I'm pretty confused.
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Try it out for yourself. Youmu's Yukkuri Slash has zero damage variance.
Wind of Miracles has two effects, strengthening buffs that already exists (except Status Enhance) and giving the Status Enhance buff.
Although using Wind of Miracles first does give slightly more damage, it doesn't really matter what you use first. The damage difference is less than 1%.
When you cast a new buff, the strength of the buff will be reset.
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Dumb question with wand of miracles. Do i cast wand first THEN a diff buff? Or the other way around? I imagine wand first.
Not dumb and important, varies due to Buffs % boosts with stats having no apparent variation on initial buff, the order in which WoM is cast will give different results, optimal is Wind of Miracles once first then the desired buff, this is because you have a +1 Turn more to boost the intended buffs, even if on Turn 2 there is a 1%~ loss. Ex: using Satori's Acala Sword (PATK 358 + 40% VOI Damage):
Wind of Miracles + Weapon Bless: 4128 Damage
Weapon Bless + Wind of Miracles: 4169 Damage (+1% exact)
For health rising is always best to do it first (on a 999 HP character):
Star Ritual Godly Winds + Wind of Miracles : 1958 HP -> 2307 HP (+1 WoM) -> 5470 HP (12th turn) -> 30709 HP (13th turn / El Moriya Iyasaka)
Wind of Miracles + Star Ritual Godly Winds : 1918 HP -> 2257 HP (+1 WoM) -> 6583 HP (13th turn) -> 40699 HP (14th turn / El Moriya Iyasaka)
Wind of Miracles x4 + Star Ritual Godly Winds: 1978 HP -> 2267 HP (+1 WoM) -> 40219 HP (17th turn / El Moriya Iyasaka)Diminishing returns on this last, basically the 1.x%~ extra stacked unto WoM (explained below). To summarize boosts gained from Wind of Miracles do not disappear when this buff wears off, they do with the buffs it boost. I had to test this when I wanted to boost HP:
(http://i.minus.com/iht7yIsUx3vzM.png) (http://minus.com/lht7yIsUx3vzM)
What is important is the 'extra turn', stat scaling can go higher from there, is really noticeable in the example above.
Also if i have a buff enjoying the effects of multiple wands, then i "recharge" it with byakuren when the wand wears off, does it turn gimp or does the uber version remain?
Resets, first thing I tried, overwrite sets it at 1x strenght. Note that Byakuren's buffs are stronger than Sanae's and last a little longer (except for her Last Word which is stronger and last longer). This was the first thing I tried to extend buff duration, I remember also trying petrify, timestop, and a few other statuses to see if turn duration stopped at all, but don't remember having luck with any.
Wind of Miracles has two effects, strengthening buffs that already exists (except Status Enhance) and giving the Status Enhance buff.
Although using Wind of Miracles first does give slightly more damage, it doesn't really matter what you use first. The damage difference is less than 1%.
WoM boosts unto itself (once it's present) as far as I know, is that 'broken', for Xu Fu's regen it seems to give as much as a +12% effect with IND 100 (shown above), which translated to it's own "Status Enhance" effect should be a +1,x%~ during the 4+1 turns it has, then resets and starts at +12% again.
Remember IND beyond 100 has no more effect here, and Xu Fu's is fixed once cast, so the amount gained beyond 40% regen is caused by WoM and consequent boosting (from 52% to 59%, +4 turns), meaning it is being enhanced by itself.Try it out for yourself. Youmu's Yukkuri Slash has zero damage variance.
This is the main problem that makes her unreliable, her damage output is too variable, Criticals do 3x Damage at best, Sword of Asura's Nirvana deals damage between 5x~6x to 20x if Critical (6*3~) of her normal damage, basically if she does 500 with a normal attack she can do 10000 with SoA'sN (using Asura's Stance), Asura Strength can help with this but it is only single hit and seems to be lost in Physical Strikeback or Physical Counter.
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I have one question about respawning enemies. I understand starting a quest does that, but is there any reliable way to do it pre-expansion, or do I simply have to wait?
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I forget how exactly but im pretty sure entering and leaving like 5 other dungeons will do the trick. Buuut maybe not.
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the enemies won't ever respawn until you return to the overworld. then it takes forever for them to return, but they eventually do. basically: wipe a dungeon, go to the next via overworld and shit, wipe everything there, return to the other dungeon and the enemies should have respawned.
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To make the enemies respawn: simply enter, leave and re-enter the Hakurei Shrine 5 times, while stepping on the healing circle each time as well. If you just enter Hakurei Shrine without stepping on the healing circle, it won't help anything at all.
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Any healing circles work. Most dungeons have the warp fairly close so you can move around if it helps the monotony.
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It seems stars (☆) for statuses equal to 95% Status Resistance, for damage it equals 87.5% (88%~), this is important when choosing Shinigami Formation, supposing it really gives 90% Death Resistance, it would mean Shinigami Formation > Equipment at 87.5%, but if 95% is Max then Shinigami Formation < Equipment. Though there is no way to know if Shinigami Formation resistance leads to a seperated success rate calculation.
It should be noted that IND also affect Field skills' duration, at these exact stats:
???????????????
(http://i.minus.com/juvwn7xFihtAY.png) (http://minus.com/luvwn7xFihtAY)
ex: Sakuya's Suction World has 9+1 turns at IND 20, 12+1 turns at IND 100, Alice Doll's War has 12+1 turn at IND 50 and 14+1 turns at IND 100, both examples with Growth enhacements. Other field effects are and remain fixed (Serpent Barrier, Quicktime, etc.).
Back at Star Ritual Godly Winds + Straw Doll Kamikaze:
Another particular effect (or bug...) of this buff is that if a character has her HP healed beyond her base rate before SRGW wears off, the character's HP won't be updated (won't go down) until there is an actual change in it, due to damage from a hit or healing, this excludes hits dealing 0 dmg, misses and buffs, except SRWG because it modifies HP, for most characters this means a free extra invulnerability hit, for Alice when the buff wears off the damage output for Straw Doll Kamikaze will remain the same, the HP taken for damage calculation will be the one displayed on the health bar and will be deducted from that, which no longer exists technically, is free HP loss for Alice and SDK tends to go first which makes this viable.
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To make the enemies respawn: simply enter, leave and re-enter the Hakurei Shrine 5 times, while stepping on the healing circle each time as well. If you just enter Hakurei Shrine without stepping on the healing circle, it won't help anything at all.
Thanks! Grinding for King Yukkuris (or any miniboss, really) gets annoying when all the enemies disappear from ????-F. By annoying, I mean impossible until they return...
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Yes. And then saving at the stage 21 healing circle and avoiding the menu unless you fight a good battle (like a king yukkuri) so that you can just use the quick reset button (f11? f12? somewhere around there) helps you avoid having to respawn too much.
Crom Crauch is alright exp too and has drops, so I tried to use a setup that could also have a decent chance to kill it, when I could. And then Mokou learned Fujiyama Big Eruption and could murderize anything... :V Welp, I was so overleveled. Then again, I was aiming to beat the Lunatic version of the goddesses pre-expansion, so I needed it. (And after a long while of work to figure out a good setup, I did!)
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The problem is actually running in an encounter with those midbosses. Don't know if it's just me, but I barely see any of them, just regular enemies.
Not to mention some of them I've only seen once, such as Hekatonkheires. And thank goodness I don't depend entirely on Zera Beetles to learn mad thunder if I don't get it from Iku, because I've only seen them once as well. It's far, far easier to learn the attack from Queen Avalon on Muenzuka 2, since they're extremely common enemies on that stage.
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To make the enemies respawn: simply enter, leave and re-enter the Hakurei Shrine 5 times, while stepping on the healing circle each time as well. If you just enter Hakurei Shrine without stepping on the healing circle, it won't help anything at all.
This the exact amount needed, anything less will respawn half the dungeon, it has to do with how many screens (load) were traversed at the moment the magic circle is used, time isn't a unit for respawn is notable since one can clear areas of the Wicked/Endurance Map and go to every other stage with no apparent time limit and enemies won't respawn on return, unless you use a magic circle.The problem is actually running in an encounter with those midbosses. Don't know if it's just me, but I barely see any of them, just regular enemies.
This is the lowest point of the game, drop rate isn't bad in Weekend I managed to get drops with 0.5% chances multiple times, but some encounters are chosen from a pool of 20 enemy formations and on top of that they only spawn in a single sector, and there are like 6 enemies in that entire sector, likely many players missed the Dominion on Stage 16/17 (only 3 enemies on St.17), or the Cyclops and Great Demon on Stage 18 (not Stage 19).Not to mention some of them I've only seen once, such as . And thank goodness I don't depend entirely on Zera Beetles to learn mad thunder if I don't get it from Iku, because I've only seen them once as well. It's far, far easier to learn the attack from Queen Avalon on Muenzuka 2, since they're extremely common enemies on that stage.
I think I made a mention of this in the wiki, is really important to avoid Satori being gimped, specially if the she happens to learn Thunderclap accidentaly. Dissolve is also a useful skill and won't be usable on the final boss if you happen to miss the learning chance in the previous boss battle.
It should be noted that is possible to alter spawn turn order (as well as parties), you can normally notice this when trying to get Satori to learn Leaf Shield at the Garden of the Sun; using a savepoint a fixed amount of times shuffles spawn order and/or enemy formations, this doesn't work everywhere due to boundary areas, F12 + Load has a similar effect and works everywhere (but takes longer).
For Stage 21 (Load from Great Temple-N or Gorgon Barrier ????-G savepoint):
Basch (????-A / 2nd Battle): use save point 9 times (1st Battle: Death Rider + Abyss Worm)
Darkonium Marisa (????-A / 3rd Battle): use save point 6 times (1st Battle: Abyss Worm -> 2nd Battle: Ibaraki Douji)
Capricorn (????-B / 4th Battle): use save point 2 times (1st Battle: Alastor + Sphinx -> 2nd Battle: Alastor + Ibaraki Douji -> 3rd Battle: Machine Dragon)
Bodhi Tree (????-B / 5th Battle): use save point 4 times (1st Battle: Alastor + Sphinx -> 2nd Battle: Sphinx -> 3rd Battle: Golden Baum -> 4th Battle: Dryad Queen)
Pendragon (????-C / 2nd Battle): use save point 5 times (1st Battle: Dryad Queen + Golden Baum)
Druid (????-C / 5th Battle): use save point 9 times (1st Battle: Dryad Queen + Golden Baum -> 2nd Battle: Lesser Dragon -> 3rd Battle: Cherubim -> 4th Battle: Pendragon)
Ambivalence (????-D / 2nd Battle): don's use save point (1st Battle: Lesser Dragon + Death Rider)
Hecatoncheir (????-D / 2nd Battle): use save point 7 times (1st Battle: Dryad Queen + Ibaraki Douji)
2 Head Dragon (????-E / 1st Battle): use save point 4 times
Lightning Baron (????-E / 2nd Battle): use save point 5 times (1st Battle: Sphinx x2)
Crom Cruach (????-F / 5th Battle): use save point 1 time (1st Battle: Machine Dragon + Cherubim + Galganim -> 2nd Battle: Alastor + Dryad Queen -> 3rd Battle: Death Rider x2 + Ibaraki Douji -> 4th Battle: Yukkuri King)
Yukkuri King (????-F / 3rd Battle): use savepoint 5 times -> 1st Battle: Abyss Worm + Death Rider + Queen Flayer -> 2nd Battle: Lesser Dragon x2
Additional for farming the High Ribbon:
Machine Dragon x2 (????-D / 1st Battle): use savepoint 6 times
Use different combination of attacks, drops are fixed (if no battle has been done since loading), for the Drake Scale any Lesser Dragon x2 is good.Anyone try this to confirm if it works the same for everyone, I believe it was different before Weekend. Accepting a Mission may shuffle all the spawn order, be sure you aren't in one (I think this is only for the Dungeon the Mission takes place in).
For Depths of Resentment, the only two with late turn order are the Sabakitsukasa which normally spawns at 7th or 8th battle in sector 3-G, it comes in the 2nd Battle fixed on the Wicked Map (? ? ? ?-T) after the Seraphim, and the Demiurge in sector 3-H, doesn't spawn ealier than at the 6th Battle which makes this enemy even more annoying.
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THANK YOU SO MUCH! That will make things much, much easier for my side! Especially because I still need to get some drops from those midbosses. Not to mention some of them doesn't even have entries on my bestiary yet, because I've only seen them either once, or just a few times, and back then my characters weren't so strong because I was still on main game, without expansion mode unlocked. So, I could not stand a chance at all against some of the more "brutal" midbosses (i.e: 2-headed dragon for example). But that should not be an issue anymore, not only because my characters are much stronger than before, but also because if I follow your formula, I will be able to predict with 100% accuracy what midboss will show up, so, I can just pre-arrange the best party configurations to bring down each of them respectively.
You're doing an amazing job with your discoveries, Cjd2524. Please, Keep up the good work.
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By "Load from..." I mean the initial game load, with the game being closed before, otherwise spawn order doesn't reset, don't use F12 (game reset) + Load, it moves spawn order and ends giving different encounters.
Stray Yukkuri (Lakebed Temple Depths L / 1st Battle): use savepoint 6 times
Load from Lakebed Temple - O (room before Tatami Room), and loop around teleports Stage 18 -> Stage 19 (exit) to avoid battles.This is the best place for EXP pre-expansion, and to obtain the Yukkuri Medal of Honor, this is the piece of gear with the lowest drop rate in Weekend at 2.5% only. This is a big room with 12 enemies, this helps a lot because it lessens the burden of going back to the Hakurei Shrine to force re-spawn.Harbor Frog (Gorgon Barrier ????-B / 1st Battle): Harbor Frog x1 + Sphinx
Load from Overworld (Gensokyo), enter and exit Lakebed Temple only once (works with any dungeon), then re-enter Lakebed Temple, and go to Gorgon Barrier ????-BBe sure to not make any battle in Gorgon Barrier ? ? ? ?-A and to not use any savepoint, different attack combinations gives different treasures, remember they are random but fixed, the chances of obtaining golden materials are really low, minibosses' are much higher (and even normal enemies are better).
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One question, though. What do you mean by "2nd battle" and whatnot? Does it mean run away from the early battles to encounter the proper enemy?
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Stray Yukkuri (Lakebed Temple Depths L / 1st Battle): use savepoint 6 times
Load from Lakebed Temple - O (room before Tatami Room), and loop around teleports Stage 18 -> Stage 19 (exit) to avoid battles.
Thanks, that's going to help me a lot getting Medal of Honor. I've killed many Stray Yukkuris already, but none of them dropped said item for me yet. (Funny thing is, I managed to get Yukkuri Crown and Platinum Jewel from Yukkuri King and Yukkuri Emperor respectively on my very first attempt for both)
Gonna try many different attack combinations until I get Medal of Honor. It's going to help me increasing my characters' EXP quite much, because if I equip the three items at the same time, I'll get a boost of 80% exp for a single character, since:
Yukkuri Medal = + 10% exp
Yukkuri Medal of Honor = + 20% exp
Yukkuri Crown = + 50% exp
One question, though. What do you mean by "2nd battle" and whatnot? Does it mean run away from the early battles to encounter the proper enemy?
I suppose he is trying to mean... for example:
"Basch (??-A / 2nd Battle): use save point 9 times (1st Battle: Death Rider + Abyss Worm)"
So, you load your game, go to Gorgon Space, use the healing circle there that comes right before Final Boss Battle 9 times, then enter a random battle and you'll find Death Rider + Abyss Worm. Run from that battle and enter on another one again. So you'll find Basch.
Now let's say you want to find Capricorn. So, you close your game, then run it again. Then use the formula that's needed to find him.
And so on. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)
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One question, though. What do you mean by "2nd battle" and whatnot? Does it mean run away from the early battles to encounter the proper enemy?
It is the Encounter # in that sector, it doesn't matter if you run or not (or fight in other sectors), encounter order is fixed for each sector, and only shuffled by using a magic circle, or exiting and entering a dungeon.
The only encounters which are Random are the Harbor Frog and the Zera Beetle, the chance of it spawning works like drop rates, it's rolled based on the actions you took in the previous battles. I took notes of a set of actions to spawn one, but leveling and equipment can modify the outcome of the roll and I can't reproduce it anymore, it used to spawn with the Lesser Dragon x2 on sector ? ? ? ?-F for me.
Thanks, that's going to help me a lot getting Medal of Honor. I've killed many Stray Yukkuris already, but none of them dropped said item for me yet. (Funny thing is, I managed to get Yukkuri Crown and Platinum Jewel from Yukkuri King and Yukkuri Emperor respectively on my very first attempt for both)
I believe I got the Platinum Jewel on the first try as well. The only items which I didn't see a single drop were the Devil's Hearts, this drop varies from 0.1% at Muenzuka to 1.0% at Eientei, then chances are the same until Gorgon Barrier, the recipes for the Milky Way Curtain I/II/III are given after defeating 1000/2500 and 5000 monsters respectively, this mean the recipes are technically available since Stage 1, however they also require Diamonds which only start being dropped at Stage 8 at 1.0%, and 2.0% at Stage 9.
What the game should do is just up the base drop percentage (+X%) of a given enemy for each time you defeat it, then when the player gets the drop be it by luck or because it reached 100%~ drop rate, reset it at default rate and start all over again, something like this would make grinding for materials feasible.
It's going to help me increasing my characters' EXP quite much, because if I equip the three items at the same time, I'll get a boost of 80% exp for a single character, since:
Yukkuri Medal = + 10% exp
Yukkuri Medal of Honor = + 20% exp
Yukkuri Crown = + 50% exp
With the Yukkuri Knighthood you get +100% Exp, so is possible to have +170% Exp, you'll have to reobtain the Yukkuri Crown, another additional 20% for the entire party can be gained by using Lithos as Commander (+2% Exp) and equipping her with the Lucky Shoes (+3% Exp), Hat (+5% Exp), and Bloomers (+10% Exp), the Rabbit's Paw gives an extra +1% Exp but has to be equipped on an active character. Also Byakuren's Last Word can grant up to +90% Exp, but a Yukkuri is likely to run before she gets her Last Word.
"Basch (??-A / 2nd Battle): use save point 9 times (1st Battle: Death Rider + Abyss Worm)"
So, you load your game, go to Gorgon Space, use the healing circle there that comes right before Final Boss Battle 9 times, then enter a random battle and you'll find Death Rider + Abyss Worm. Run from that battle and enter on another one again. So you'll find Basch.
Enemy (Sector where it spawns / Encounter #): # numbers of spawn shuffles needed (if Enemy Encounter > 1 then -> List Previous Encounters in that Sector)
Just remember to Load the game from the specified sector with the game being closed before, and then after making the magic circle shuffles, to go to the sector where the monster spawns.
Load from Depths of Resentment 6-M:
Dragon (Depths of Resentment 5-L / 1st Battle): F12 + Load 8 times Satori can learn Cosmic Liner, Comet, Dragon Breath, and Elixir from this enemy, she only learns one skill per battle making it necessary to fight it multiple times.
Load from Depths of Resentment 6-M:
Yukkuri Emperor (Depths of Resentment 5-L / 2nd Battle): F12 + Load 7 times (1st Battle: Ironclad + Main Battle Tank)This works wells for farming Exp in the expansion, is a big area with plenty of enemies.
The magic circle doesn't shuffle battles in Depths of Resentment, this is likely because it is out of the dungeon boundaries, is possible this was done on purpose to force enemies to respawn in the Wicked Map in case the player decided to heal. This has an excellent advantage, every time the magic circle is used it respawns monsters inside the dungeon, around 3 uses will start respawning monsters, making it possible to grind forever in this dungeon without any need to visit the Hakurei Shrine.
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I'm trying to beat the final expansion boss again without Aya on my last party, but it's being hard to get Yuugi's attacks to connect with the final boss without Tengu's Downwards wind. So, I wanna know if Byakuren's "Never Fail" will be enough.
The boss has 400 EVA, right?
If my Yuugi has 290 ACC and my Byakuren 90 IND, then what number my Yuugi's ACC will become after a Never Fail buff?
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"A Lot"
...or, uh, well, it'll probably work. I mean, that plus Amplify Scroll (which also buffs ACC)
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Only problem is that a character can't have more than 5 different buffs on this game, and I already have the 5 buffs planned for my Yuugi:
Wind of Miracles, Never Fail, Weapon Bless, Hyper Trigger and Star Calling the Godly Winds.
Unless if I take Hyper Trigger out, since the scroll buff also boosts IND.
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...why does Yuugi need IND? *Blink*
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To get criticals. Damage from KOi3S gets much bigger if a critical hit is added.
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IND doesn't determine critical chance. POT does.
EDIT: Every 2 POT equals +1 CRT, according to formulas.
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IND doesn't determine critical chance. POT does.
EDIT: Every 2 POT equals +1 CRT, according to formulas.
.....then, what's the purpose of Hyper Trigger?
I mean, if it doesn't boost critical hit chance, then what benefits would a character get from getting an IND up?
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...To make it more likely to inflict status and to boost buffing power? IND is only for buffs and inflicting status, mind you (and the IND boost to buffs only caps at 100, further IND is useless for buffs only).
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Dear goodness, and I've always used Hyper Trigger on my Yuugi thinking it'd help her getting crits... :colonveeplusalpha:
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If you have Wind of Miracles and Byakuren's Accuracy buff, you should have no problems hitting the final boss. I believe Knock out in 3 Steps is somewhat accurate.
I thought you wanted Yuugi's IND to 100, so you can do Berserker's Rage or whatever that is called and hit 8x for 3 turns instead of 2 turns.
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All right, this is already getting out of hand. I give up on putting Yuugi on the third phase because I'll NEED her on the first one. That Sekigyumon jerk takes too long to get killed without her, and it keeps casting Comet all the time, destroying my whole party.
So... you guys said that Youmu is better on the third phase than Yuugi, right? If that's true, then can someone please tell me what her growth tree should look like, her equipment and the skills I need to use against Resentment's Incident? I mean, what attacks gives the most damage?
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All right, this is already getting out of hand. I give up on putting Yuugi on the third phase because I'll NEED her on the first one. That Sekigyumon jerk takes too long to get killed without her, and it keeps casting Comet all the time, destroying my whole party.
So... you guys said that Youmu is better on the third phase than Yuugi, right? If that's true, then can someone please tell me what her growth tree should look like, her equipment and the skills I need to use against Resentment's Incident? I mean, what attacks gives the most damage?
I was actually able to have Sanae mostly solo the first phase. It's been a while so I don't remember exactly what I did, but she had the all-physical all-magic resistance combo, immunity to poison (the field effect is poison damage), and her toxic-inflicting weapon. I blitzed the bottom of the two with the other party members, and just had Sanae survive a war of attrition against the other. I could heal, he couldn't, he took continuous damage and I didn't. And 1 turn before the end I had her revive the entire party for phase 2.
It's boring and kinda cheap, but it works. Lets you focus your party forming almost entirely on the second phase of combat, and then have a full team for phase 3 as well.
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Phase 1, you can put a bunch of random characters and just go all out damage. Sakuya with Ice Sword does some nice damage to Phase 1.
Phase 2, you can more or less take a break and power up. Sanae's poison should be able to kill phase 2. So take your time and keep your buff up before phase 3.
You can use the same team in phase 2 and finish phase 3 off.
Youmu in Mannyusa stance and use Cycling Realm Slash. Use her ultimate weapon, Touhou Fuhai. Buff with Byakuren's attack up, Wind of Miracles and accuracy up. You may or may not need the final buff, depending on whether you stacked Wind of Miracles or not.
I think you will need resistance to Dark and Null. Have someone with resurrect, usually Sanae, carry that resistance, so you can resurrect after party wipe from the 666 damage to all. If the final boss doesn't have that garbage field spell, you can actually solo it. Phase 3 doesn't actually do enough damage to beat your regen. Of course that will require that 256 accuracy sword, so you can actually hit the thing.
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Protip: Satori is the best. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOukwEL2hwE)
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Thank you for the help guys, I finally did it! Wisdom and persistence was the key, and now I can finally say I'm done with this game, even though I haven't tried endurance dungeon yet.
Here are a few videos I uploaded in case anyone is interested:
All level 7 sidequest bosses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbaIpdl7hCw)
All level 8 sidequest bosses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uZ5L6XIP6w) (The use of Hyper Trigger was pretty dumb, but I didn't know it wasn't made to boost critical hit chance back then)
Three Godess' Enhanced Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zUbALHmEHw) (the lunatic one with 199999 HP)
Lingering summer heat final boss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAqOXcjvbJo)
The final boss of lingering summer heat again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYY0ckPvb-U), except that it was defeated with a single party this time. (Yes, I copied most of your strategy, Battler, except with some differences. The equipment I got after 15K kills also worked wonders) :V
And that's it. Also, note that I uploaded the videos in Japanese, that's because pretty much nobody knows about this game outside of Japan anyway, so, I thought I'd probably get more views if I make those videos to the Japanese audience. I'm pretty sure everyone here will understand what's going on, though.
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Congratulations. I use 2 parties to beat the final boss. It makes life easier. First party is rush down, because on the first part, the boss might kill some members of your main party with some of their bogus moves. So, I just avoid that by using a more damage race party.
It seems like you do not have the Golden Cassock and its upgraded variant. Even the first level upgrade is one of the best armors in the game. The second level upgrade just makes it unmatched by any other armor. That's one of the best Heavy Armors and one of the best Armors in the game.
That armor would have made your life a lot easier.
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It seems like you do not have the Golden Cassock and its upgraded variant. Even the first level upgrade is one of the best armors in the game. The second level upgrade just makes it unmatched by any other armor. That's one of the best Heavy Armors and one of the best Armors in the game.
That armor would have made your life a lot easier.
I do have the Golden Cassock's upgraded variant, you silly. If you pause my 1 party kill of Resentment Incident (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYY0ckPvb-U) at 0:05, you can see that I equipped my Yuugi with it. (it's called Sacred Clothes) :)
Still on the note of equipment, I ironically didn't equip Alice with Kagami + Magatama, since her Rainbow Kamikaze Greaves already gives enough elemental resistance. Then I equipped A. Muscle Suit on her as well for SLA/STA/STK resistance. The accessories I gave her was Sun Curtain IV, Moon Curtain IV and Milky Way Curtain IV... causing her to barely take damage from any attack. (I think equipping those three accessories on the same character reduces all damage by 90%, since SCIV = 50% physical damage reduction, MCIV = 50% magical damage reduction, and MWCIV = 40% both physical and magical damage reduction).
I gave Kagami + Magatama to Byakuren, Regalia to Satori and Hakurei Ribbon to Sanae, so those characters can get good resistances too, instead of only Alice.
I also have Dragon King's Charm (which gives a Star on FIR/WTR/ETH/ELE) -- and I could have given that to my Yuugi, but since she had Sacred Clothes equipped already, I decided to give her Awakened Soul + Acute Soul (plus 25 points on the Sake Tree and 10 points on the Hell Tree, which gives her a total of 14 bombs, meaning 7 possible KOi3S for you to use). The other accessory was just Headshot Goggles V to boost her low accuracy, so she can hit the final boss.
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I do have the Golden Cassock's upgraded variant, you silly. If you pause my 1 party kill of Resentment Incident at 0:05, you can see that I equipped my Yuugi with it. (it's called Sacred Clothes) :)
Weird, I did not see Sacred Clothes effect on any of your characters on the first fight scene, so I thought you did not have it. I must have missed the +100 HP/+3 MP regen provided by the Sacred Clothes.
The accessories I gave her was Sun Curtain IV, Moon Curtain IV and Milky Way Curtain IV... causing her to barely take damage from any attack. (I think equipping those three accessories on the same character reduces all damage by 90%, since SCIV = 50% physical damage reduction, MCIV = 50% magical damage reduction, and MWCIV = 40% both physical and magical damage reduction).
That is not quite how reduction works. Reduction stacks if it is of the same type. There are 3 types of damage reduction. Physical, Magical, and Divine Barrier. Physical and Magical are obvious and affect physical and magical respectively. Divine Barrier affects both physical and magic, but can be pierced by attacks that ignore Divine Barrier, like Punish The Judgement. Do note, Punish does not pierce Magical damage reduction, as it is not Divine Barrier type.
Equipping those 3 is not as good as focusing. What you really have is 50% physical damage reduction, then 40% damage reduction. This totals to 70% damage reduction against physical, 70% damage reduction against magical. If you were to use 2 physical damage reduction items, like Sun Curtain IV and III, then it will add, giving you 80% physical reduction. It does cap at 90%, so going above that will not matter.
Generally speaking, you are better off equipping Moon Curtain IV and III for the same effect(70% damage reduction) as equipping the 3 items you mentioned. However, there are moves that ignore Divine Barrier, so it is not always true.
EDIT: Your video on the second fight is pretty much the reason why you should be using 2 parties instead of 3 for the final fight. The first round sometimes has some high damage, so you might randomly get unlucky if you just use 1 party. The second round, there are no real threats, so you can take your time stacking Wind of Miracles for the third fight. By the time the third round comes, it should be easy since you have likely stacked Wind of Miracles enough times for you to do too much damage.
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That is not quite how reduction works. Reduction stacks if it is of the same type. There are 3 types of damage reduction. Physical, Magical, and Divine Barrier. Physical and Magical are obvious and affect physical and magical respectively. Divine Barrier affects both physical and magic, but can be pierced by attacks that ignore Divine Barrier, like Punish The Judgement. Do note, Punish does not pierce Magical damage reduction, as it is not Divine Barrier type.
Equipping those 3 is not as good as focusing. What you really have is 50% physical damage reduction, then 40% damage reduction. This totals to 70% damage reduction against physical, 70% damage reduction against magical. If you were to use 2 physical damage reduction items, like Sun Curtain IV and III, then it will add, giving you 80% physical reduction. It does cap at 90%, so going above that will not matter.
Generally speaking, you are better off equipping Moon Curtain IV and III for the same effect(70% damage reduction) as equipping the 3 items you mentioned. However, there are moves that ignore Divine Barrier, so it is not always true.
That's pretty confusing. So, does that mean MWCIV gives you Divine Barrier instead, unlike SCIV and MCIV that actually gives you 50% physical reduction and magical reduction respectively?
EDIT: Your video on the second fight is pretty much the reason why you should be using 2 parties instead of 3 for the final fight. The first round sometimes has some high damage, so you might randomly get unlucky if you just use 1 party. The second round, there are no real threats, so you can take your time stacking Wind of Miracles for the third fight. By the time the third round comes, it should be easy since you have likely stacked Wind of Miracles enough times for you to do too much damage.
That's alright, though. Alice and the other 4 members of my party are equipped with good resistance boosting accessories, giving them resistance to all elements, except Yuugi and Sanae that doesn't have physical resistance. so, even if Green Teeth and Red Teeth do attack the other 4 instead of Alice with Hourai Doll + Poison Shield formation, they'll still barely take damage. Sanae's HP boosting buff also gives them extra help.
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That's pretty confusing. So, does that mean MWCIV gives you Divine Barrier instead, unlike SCIV and MCIV that actually gives you 50% physical reduction and magical reduction respectively?
Yes and that means it stacks with other Divine Barrier effects. This makes Byakuren or Lithos a really amazing tank, because with just 1 item, they have 90% damage reduction. Add resistance or physical/magical damage reduction to that, and they are nearly unkillable. While Divine Barrier can be pierced, there are very few skills that do, so it is very good. You can probably count on 1 hand the number of enemies that can do this.
That's alright, though. Alice and the other 4 members of my party are equipped with good resistance boosting accessories, giving them resistance to all elements, except Yuugi and Sanae that doesn't have physical resistance.
The first one knows Meteor and Comet.
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Yes and that means it stacks with other Divine Barrier effects. This makes Byakuren or Lithos a really amazing tank, because with just 1 item, they have 90% damage reduction. Add resistance or physical/magical damage reduction to that, and they are nearly unkillable. While Divine Barrier can be pierced, there are very few skills that do, so it is very good. You can probably count on 1 hand the number of enemies that can do this.
Wow, this is amazing. Thank you very much for informing about this, gonna change my characters' equipment then.
The first one knows Meteor and Comet.
True, and it wiped my whole first party with this attack several times when I was trying to kill it while using 3 parties. Gonna see what I can do about it.
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From the sounds of it, your method is a lot faster but not quite as safe. Mine's pretty much fool-proof, to the extent that I even mess up a few times in the video I posted and still pull it through pretty easily. It could probably still be refined and made a lot more efficient, especially if I bothered grinding out all the best equipment and such, but eh, I'm happy enough with what I've got.
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@Synnae:
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention and it would have helped you for the final fight, but better late than never. The 3rd stage of the final boss uses Dark and Void damage on counter when you clear the regular flames. The Yata no Kagami has a hidden effect that gives star resistance vs Void. This also means you can tank the full counter with Alice if you have it on her without any HP buffs. I think you may need another item, but I am unsure.
This resistance is important for some other fights, because a lot of the top tier moves are Void, so you can have it equipped on someone to tank it.
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Did the entry for the Last Word Charge behavior (http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=5U2wnxYg) which is actually unconfirmed on the JP wiki, I am sorry I couldn't do the one for Shield behavior but that one is harder to understand, and test to be fair as Shield behavior is pretty random varying from shield to shield at times. Here's the rest of the old docs by the way: http://pastebin.com/u/cjd2524
Nitori Lv.75 / pre-expansion equipment (guess the combination):
(http://i.minus.com/jLsUbsUf5bxJe_xs.jpg) (http://minus.com/lLsUbsUf5bxJe)
Takes a real while at that level and could be done with a little I guess, it's a shame there is a unique LW, and not selectable LW types (like Support, Offensive, etc.) because it really shows how Last Word gimps certain characters, Youmu is barely able to stay alive nevermind attack under the same circumstances (that thing can deal 8k damage per turn). Stances would have been nice to further extend formation variation, similar to three sisters Battle Stance or Youmu's, since freefight is fixed (SPD + LW+1).
Also the decision of having the LED Mirage + Basch pair only spawning at end of the of the Endurance Dungeon, the ultimate Sakuya battle ruined by bad placement, though the mistake here is that there is no way to re-enter from the exit (and with no custom arena), I would be happy if there was a way to hack enemy encounters for testing purposes.
Final Boss (from what I remember):
PHASE 1: these ones can be soloed with Youmu if one would be ok with sacrificing the best gear, still fun to try.
Both have 50% Exorcism, making total % Divine Barrier half as effective. After the 12th turn Sekigyumon will be able to use Comet and Seigyumon Hyper Bomb, remember this skills has 25 Exorcism, and Comet has 50 Exorcism which stacks as well, this last nulls Divine Barrier completely.
The most dangerous skill in this battle is Seigyumon's Vacuum Wave, since it can deal 4 digit damage to a character with no SLA Resistance or Physical Barrier, however just like Hyper Bomb and Comet it will be a added to the moveset after the 12th turn (this is not what I remember), unlike their two signature attacks this one is used much earlier and relentlessly (Hyper Bomb is STK Physical, Vacuum Wave is SLA Physical and ignores all DEF, both relatively low Accuracy).
It is best to prioritize Seigyumon if anyone in the party is able to Debuff MATK, while Hyper Bomb damage can be halved in many ways unlike Comet, both Phase 1 Bosses have 95% PATK Down and ALL Down Resistance, but no MATK Down Resistance, or ACC Down Resistance (only Lv Resistance / 18% Variety), both can be easily inflicted with either, reducing Comet damage dealt, or Vacuum Wave and Hyper Bomb Hit Success (remember minimum Hit % is 5% regardless of ACC, so is not secure like MATK Down).
If by any chance Sakuya is picked as Leader (or not, but more likely to be targeted as leader), and she gets attacked and gains her Last Word on the first Turn and there are buffers on the party, Byakuren with her Perfect Resist specially, as both bosses they are likely to end wasting multiple turns using Vortex if Perfect Resist is present, both will be gone before they even a chance to use Vacuum Wave, much before they get a chance to use Hyper Bomb or Comet.
PHASE 2:
The Giant Fish Face has two signature attacks, the most annoying being Indigestion (was that called?), which drains 90% of Current HP and ignores defense and almost always succeeds, this make it soloing almost impossible, even with perfect Regen. The second being Abyss Wind, watch out if using a speed halving formation like Master of All, as it has a high chance of inflicting Curse and cause self-death if the player decided to go on an all out attack in the same turn.
Any character capable of inflicting Poison (or variations) will easily help getting rid of the Giant Fish Face while leaving alive the Mirrors (Sanae is made for this battle), since the battle will go on as long as at least one mirror is present one can take the needed time to heal, and buff prior to the following battle, the Mirrors only powerful skill is Hyper Destruction Beam, which increases damage as it hits more targets, from the top part of the screen to the lower (it is not too powerful anyways).
If there is any party member with the ability to buff this is the perfect time to before Phase 3, again specially Sanae, as only Phase 1 bosses have Dispel capabilities one can easily make room to raise all party HP beyond 1000 HP to secure Phase 3, and if Mokou's is in the party even get Perfect Regen. Even if no one is able to buff one can wait to see if Last Word activates for use in Phase 3.
PHASE 3:
Has 3 signature attacks with Emperor's Pandemonium being the most dangerous, it's VOI Physical based and as such can be Deflected, Alice and Youmu's are likely to, Satori's 1-Star Commander Spell can help a lot if properly used, specially in conjunction with Alice's Little Legion. While it is not mentioned anywhere I think it powers with each missing Resentment meaning it does around 999 damage only when the 4 Elementals are down and is nowhere as powerful when done randomly at will.
Satori's Shield Wall can reduce Emperor's Pandemonium damage to 250 or less, however her SPD better not be halved by a formation penalty, Shield Wall casting SPD is Satori's SPD x10, while Pandemonium's is Boss' SPD x3, with no resentments SPD = 400 -> Skill SPD 400 x 3 = 1200 SPD, good luck if satori has less than 120 SPD due to formation.
Sakuya's Time Stop (if at Level 99) can be used easily to land hits and hold back for one turn the dual attacks.
Alternatively Cirno is made for this battle but I never got to test her, basically the boss has 0% Freeze Resistance when all the Resentments are down, which is a 100% guaranteed freeze, meaning Cirno uses Ice Counter takes the damage of only the first attacks and interrupts the second one. However she has to survive the first one, while only Pandemonium is worth interrupting I think it can also be the first of the two attacks.
Sakuya could as well inflict freeze, but Cirno's Counter is used to circumvent the SPD requirement, she needs to exceed SPD 1200, supposing Aya isn't in the party or as a Leader, the only possible way to do is by buffing her SPD with Sanae or using Sonic Stream which sounds super risky for the other Phases, and since Sakuya can manipulate time by herself is a really inefficient workaround.
I always found a single party to be the best, due to the lack of alternative tiers for equipment, this is really notable in the pre-expansion final boss (MYS Resistance anyone?), but even here with all the extra expansion equipment, it ends coming short due to the new attacks and extra party members. The three phases can be taken down around 20th turns likely if not even less, it can really depend on Last Word Activation.
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Alternatively Cirno is made for this battle but I never got to test her, basically the boss has 0% Freeze Resistance when all the Resentments are down, which is a 100% guaranteed freeze
aya commander with a healthy dose of bombs is not much of a price (you probably have her sitting in the commander slot not doing much anyway) so that's very interesting to know
I think it's easier (if you aren't really overpowered, like with the regalia and hakurei ribbon, which takes 15k kills; like twice as many kills as you'll reach the final extra boss with w/o grinding on not-sidequest enemies) to do it with multiple parties though. The first two phases can be handled really easily by specially made parties that don't take up all your high-demand characters nor too much high-desire equipment. Sanae/Lithos (or Marisa instead of Lithos) can practically duo the second phase (a debuffer plus Reisen can speed it up a lot though) and the first phase just needs a blinktank as the magic side of the duo goes down in no time to it's weaknesses.
I might be mixing up the first phase strat though, because it's been awhile.
If you make yourself OP though then you can certainly just deck out a single party and trample the boss. The high tier gear is insanely good if you actually go to the effort of getting it. Plus if you abuse Sanae's hp buff... that thing is too broken when you start stacking it.
Man, I have fond memories of beating the lunatic form of The Three Goddesses -before- reaching expansion. That was a real trip. I kept the save before I beat it as proof, too. It was fun, as even though it was my second trip into the game, I was still being challenged and having to come up with new strategies. (Grinding Stage 21 was interesting for similar reasons; I had paid the enemies little attention the first time through, especially not the random-encounter-boss ones)
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Cirno's Ice Barrier has 999% probability of inflicting Freeze via counter, so any enemy which isn't immune to Freeze (or Stun, etc.), will be freezed most of the time, her main problem is her damage output, it's a 3-digit nightmare, even with an offensive Last Word, it should be noted she deals more physical damage to enemies weak against WTR than the rest of the characters (except Sakuya, in practice), at the same time if the enemy is strong against WTR she deals less than the rest.
When I went to try the lunatic version of the final boss (prior to the final expansion boss) I used a single character to attack in order to test defense and the supposed enhanced shield of the boss, Mokou decided to Multi-Strike + Critical with Fujiyama Volcano, and she took alone like 170,000 HP out of the boss on the first turn, and the boss shielded both attacks.
I like more the battle against Hina personally, even if it is heavily scripted, I wish it could be replayed, I wanted to see how much is possible to debuff Cursed Doll, she has a special behavior with attack debuffs (Resistance vs Weakness calculation). I have a save at this boss, but the party isn't in the best of conditions.
The final boss shares the same weakness as the expansion one, Phase 2 can be entirely used for buffs, even when Sanae needs a 1-Turn cooldown for WoM, the cooldowns are individual so one can use SRGW and WoM immediately, then fill another buff and keep going, healing, etc, Sanae is more flexible this way, and Byakuren can easily null Vortex.
The main problem I found with the final boss is when using multiple parties, at the time even with the entire gear set synthesized up to that stage, there isn't enough MYS Resistant gear to safeguard everyone, even counting Marisa's Growth Tree, this leaves characters vulnerable to Minus and Ras Algol Maenads.
PHASE 1: Lithos' Temptation is the most dangerous skill if the battle goes on for too long, and while Akame and Chihiro skills are dangerous both can be taken down in 1-Hit or two at most and won't respawn, they're even weaker than in the first encounter.
PHASE 2: Stone Shower deals considerable ETH damage, and Minus deals 666 MYS fixed damage (+ Petrify) to a single character.
PHASE 3: Phase 2 Skills + Ras Algol Maenads, which deals 666 MYS to all party (+Petrify), and Chrysaor Golden Slash which can inflict Instant Death, and the signature attack which can be prevented.
I still have a save at Lv.75~80 pre-expansion, I did really how the EXP Cap worked on earlier levels to dissuade excessive grinding, I remember grinding the underleveled (unused) characters via Stray Yukkuri spawn on the last segment of Lv.19. Grinding for materials is the real grinding in this game, but is painful due to enemy encounter and placement rather than drop rate.
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Unrelated to the precedents posts.
So I'm in the last dungeon of the postgame and have access to the last boss and evil road.
But I'd like to have every high tiered equipment before attempting any serious trip.
When I thought I was done I just found out I'm missing 3 recipe lists from Akyuu.
Ok there's one we get by beating the last boss and the others two by exterminating... 10k and 15k youkai...
So far I only killed... 6690 youkai.
Is there an optimized way to exterminate youkai in big numbers and fast or should I just give up ?
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So I just got to the underground...and I have to ask, why the hell are all the enemies represented on the minimap as
feet?
Just...What?
Also, how do I beat Utsuho?
I've heard she pumps out the nasty damages, and I don't want to walk into a fight with nasty damages without being prepared.
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Is there an optimized way to exterminate youkai in big numbers and fast or should I just give up ?
It's pretty much just running sweeps through the scarlet devil mansion over and over and over. The average amount of enemies per battle is pretty good, and then you target your own party during the last fight to deathwarp on out.
This will take forever though, you really shouldn't bother. Like, if you had a day free without work/school/whatever you'd have to spend just about all of your free time grinding kills off wimpy monsters. The only reasonable way is if you split up the kill-grinding trips to the SDM throughout the entire game, which I did on my second playthrough where I wanted that stuff.
Unfortunately, the 15k kill gear is incredibly good, so you're also really missing out in terms of making the Challenge Bonus Dungeon less super hard. I tried to cheat engine it once and I simply could not find a way; I found a single address that looked about right and went up by one each time I killed a monster, but hacking it up didn't help at all, among some other things I tried.
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Is there an optimized way to exterminate youkai in big numbers and fast or should I just give up ?
Not that I remember, the game lacks in this sense, I finished the game with all the equipment (Treasures/Drops/Synthesis), and I was missing more than 10 levels of PEx for the characters outside the party. Certain areas in stages have larger hordes of enemies, the last area stage 1 has a x10 Kedama spawn, Stage 17 last area has a x7 Puchi Mind Flayer spawn among others.
Alternatively go to Stage 15 and get into a fight with a Harpy and wait for it to start using Hysteric Party, anyone with Pierce damage like Nitori can be forever there, but this is only useful to avoid loading screens or having to travel to the Hakure Shrine to respawn enemies, note that is possible to miss PEx doing this (as it caps at 64 per battle for normal enemies)
Also, how do I beat Utsuho?
I've heard she pumps out the nasty damages, and I don't want to walk into a fight with nasty damages without being prepared.
The wiki has more precise info, but:
Orin
uses Fire skills and is weak to Water so the damage can be halved by using WTR attacks, or using some FIR resistant gear which are more common than the MYS ones at least.
In late turns or if she is low on health or already defeated Utsuho
will start spamming Megaflare which does about 300 MYS damage to the entire party, the Sessho-Seki (#40) in the previous area of hell drops the Crescent Moon Shield, which has ☆ MYS, I remember if Alice was given this shield she could negate all of Utsuho's Megaflare damage upon her, even if not defeated she would run out of MP eventually.
I would try Freefight + Marionette Parrar with that shield (if the problem is Flare and Megaflare).
It's pretty much just running sweeps through the scarlet devil mansion over and over and over. The average amount of enemies per battle is pretty good, and then you target your own party during the last fight to deathwarp on out.
I had to do this to max PEx, it was more annoying to me than Material gathering, it doesn't help normal enemies battles were capped to 64 max PEx, making the Harpy and Garbangol like enemies be nearly useless for grinding.
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Reimu's Fantasy Heaven will do absolutely crazy damage to utsuho if you set her up for it, and you can use Aya's 3-bomb commander skill to make sure you go before Giga Flare; it's probably easiest to just plan on wiping Utsuho off the face of the planet after getting her HP down a little bit.
Yes, it uses pretty much all of Reimu's MP to cast it twice IIRC, but the point is that yes you can probably kill Utsuho in two turns.
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Giga Flare is only in the expansion battle and is disappointedly weak, that's Mega Flare on Stage 4, remember if you finish Utsuho first Orin will revive her, so be really careful, Utsuho will start using it after her HP goes below 1/3, I can't remember if there were other conditions.
If Mokou is in the party (due to the konami code) it may be better to wait for Orin to go down before starting to use Fire skills, otherwise her damage will go up and since Mokou has natural resistance to FIR she cuts the gear requirements, however after Orin is no longer present in battle Mokou can fight without restraints.
Alternatively if timed properly Marisa's 3-Star Commander Spell can null MYS damage, but it better be done properly and Utsuho defeated in the very same turn, because it has a 2-Turn cooldown, there will be no party left for a second chance.
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Ok there's one we get by beating the last boss and the others two by exterminating... 10k and 15k youkai...
So far I only killed... 6690 youkai.
Is there an optimized way to exterminate youkai in big numbers and fast or should I just give up ?
Yeah, the quickest way I can think of is to do Scarlet Devil Mansion runs. Weak enemies and good for power farming while you are at it.
Also, how do I beat Utsuho? I've heard she pumps out the nasty damages, and I don't want to walk into a fight with nasty damages without being prepared.
As the other poster said, use Reimu. She will do tons of damage to Utsuho. Fantasy Heaven is also very fast.
But yes, I also recommend killing Orin first, lest she revives Okuu.
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Yeah, the quickest way I can think of is to do Scarlet Devil Mansion runs. Weak enemies and good for power farming while you are at it.
I find Stage 3 to be better due to the mansion having a maze like structure that requires backtracking, whatever place is used for grinding is better to make a route that has the least backtracking as possible, have Sonic Stream as a formation, and if possible put Aya in the active party with Total Vigilance to avoid wasting extra time due to a surprise attack, those happen regardless of level, be advised if she is a Commander this skill has no effect and the party is still vulnerable to surprise attacks. If the Ten Dice Sword is in possesion and equipped to someone with Multi-Strike capabilities like Lithos it is possible to finish every battle in a single action pressing auto-battle, it doesn't get faster than that.
I remember in FF5 you could get all the characters with Berserk to force auto-battle to grind, however in this game there is no way to force it since status disappear after battle.
Oh, I remember I forgot to document a hidden mechanic. Weapon's Growth Tree which gives additional skills boost the damage of the given weapon skills, basically the lesser skills get a power up. For example with Axes:
Bone Crusher : Axe Skill damage +5% (this boost is always present)
Temple Crush : Axe Skill damage +10%
Hells' Crusher: Axe Skill damage +15%
Feral Howling : Axe Skill damage +25%
Yuugi + Bone Crusher -> PATK 654 ( -/+ 10% Feral Howling):
(http://i.minus.com/jI9LquC1H6X2m_xs.jpg) (http://minus.com/lI9LquC1H6X2m) <- PATK 654 (-/+10% FH) -> (http://i.minus.com/jb06QU2J7piUE8_xs.jpg) (http://minus.com/lb06QU2J7piUE8)
Cirno's Flash Slash -> PATK 383 ( -/+ 10% Ice Destruction):
(http://i.minus.com/jbcwkc34ucOIqw_xs.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbcwkc34ucOIqw)
(http://i.minus.com/jRhMMiQCFTp0u_xs.jpg) (http://minus.com/lRhMMiQCFTp0u) <- PATK 383 ( -/+ 10% ID) -> (http://i.minus.com/jb0HwIsL4QjEWb_xs.jpg) (http://minus.com/lb0HwIsL4QjEWb)
For some reason this doesn't work with Yuugi's rock skills, Rock Guard and the rest of the skills don't give any additional damage. I'll try the rest of the weapons later to determine the characters this applies to and try to add to the docs.
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Well, i guess i'll necropost here. Recently picked this up and i'm having tons of fun playing it. For some weird reason i decided not to use Alice at all and see how far i'll be able to go without using her. My main party is Reimu, Marisa, Aya, Mokou and Satori (teaching her all the spells is quite fun, tho teaching her Mass Heal in Netherworld with only control effect being her Last Word wasn't quite fun, but it was worth it). So far just made it past Momiji/Cirno fight. And i had to improvise quite a lot in most of the boss fights.
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You can beat the game without using Alice, including post game final boss.
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Omg, Iku's fight wasn't pretty. This is pure luck bullshit and gambling on rng. I've beaten her on my ~20th attempt. Without Alice. =)
But on my final attempt it was a quite enjoyable if somewhat nervewrecking boss fight.
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Mad Thunder is the -best-. It's one of the strongest elec attacks in the game, even all the way at the end of postgame. And I don't just mean "Satori's strongest elec attack".
It really helps her usability!
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I have a question about those annoying barrier-changing skeletons, i.e. Heins. What triggers barrier change and is there some sort of pattern to the element they barrier change to? I've seen them use barrier change on the first turn or never use it at all through the fight. Is it based on land levels or something else? Or is it just random? Because it's not fun to fight them. At all.
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(...) Heins (...)
From my experience it's random. But if you outspeed them then they aren't particularly resistant to anything (as in: before they use barrier change).
And if I remember correctly then poison works well.
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Omg, Iku's fight wasn't pretty. This is pure luck bullshit and gambling on rng. I've beaten her on my ~20th attempt. Without Alice. =)
But on my final attempt it was a quite enjoyable if somewhat nervewrecking boss fight.
It is not that luck based. You only really need to avoid the "shock" effect. You can craft one item that gives immunity to shock and I think Reimu can now cast that barrier spell that blocks "Quick" status effects by now. All you need to know is when she does her shock/instant kill combo.
What triggers barrier change and is there some sort of pattern to the element they barrier change to?
I don't think there is a pattern, just random. There is a weapon that ignores resistance and Sakuya and Patchouli has skills that lower resistance to their attacks.
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I went back to this game after a long long time, since I still had an unfinished save. Where I stand right now is that I'm on the final boss in post game. I have made the best weapon (except Alice's. She's wearing Excalibur at the moment) and armor for each character (Byakuren's crafting material was a pain in the ass) and most characters are over 90 (Cirno 83, Marisa 84 and Aya 89 iirc). I have also come to the point that with the proper setup, none of the Korindou quests are particularly difficult, even though the elder dragon is somewhat long. Speaking of the elder dragon: Satori has learned a lot of things by now. A lot of Breaths including Holy - and Death Breath. a whole lot of physical attacks including Acala Sword, Vacuum Wave and Tentacle. She knows most of the demon attacks (aside from demon shock, funnily enough), and some really powerful attacks like Meteor, Medoroa, Dark Web, Medullite Beam, Dark Giga Flare, Cosmic Liner and Punish the Judgment. Of course she also knows a lot of generic attacks that aren't really worth mentioning.
For her supportive/defensive skills she knows almost everything: Area - and Mass Heal, Refresh, Reflect Wall, Starlight Barrier, Leaf Shield, Vortex and Shield Wall. I was thinking of trying to get her Elixir and Raise Dead, too, but the amount of luck I feel I need for both is ridiculous so I wasn't sure. Maybe you guys can help here. As well as Hyper Fang crush for Yukkuri hunting (even if it's really unnecessary at this point). And any other Skills she should learn I didn't mention here before I enter the Endurance dungeon?
At this point I also made every really good accessory. Regalia, Kagami and Magatama, Milky Way Curtain III/IV, Gale Mantle IV, Hakurei Ribbon, Dragon King's charm, Dragon Scale, Zephyr Mantle III/IV, Border of Invulnerability and Immortality, Creator's Charm, Sun Curtain IV, Moon Curtain IV, and of course every IV and V for the stat-up accessories like Rage Choker IV/V etc. Again, anything you feel I am missing and should craft before I enter the endurance dungeon? I'd like to come fully prepared.
Tip on how to optimally set up the Power-points would be appreciated as well. I have no idea, haha.
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Do you have the really good gear as well? Stuff like Gold Cloth and its upgraded versions.
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gold cloth? is that an armor? I don't think I have ever seen an item like that in the shop. I know there's the golden cassock, but it didn't seem like something I'd use over the ultimate armor for those that could wear it, so I never made it.
I do have some random stuff like the transparent armor or amukihaha's amulet.
EDIT: looking at the item lists on the wiki make me think I don't have all recipes. when's the last time I get recipes for youkai kills? I'm at 19k or some shit now. there shouldn't be any quest or so I missed. it's weird and confuses me.
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I think Gold Cloth is a Stage 21 (gorgon barrier) random-boss item that you forge into Golden Cassock or whatnot. It's been awhile but I remember the final upgrade for it being kind of godly? High resists across the board and mp regen, I think. You really need high resists to everything on everyone in order to not die horribly in the extra dungeon, or some other prevention method. And planning out on how you're going to manage MP.
I think actually making use of the ability to switch team members mid-dungeon might be the weirdest part, though. Normally it's not something a person would ever really do, but there's nothing stopping you, and in the endurance dungeon there's a lot of people who become dead weight after their mp runs low and you can't just use a healing circle... or if their lives run low, obviously.
Last set of recipes is at 15k kills.
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Mh? You need zeus' robe to forge the golden cassock. Guess I'll go ahead and forge it anyway. The problem with it is that the final upgrade for it is some recipe I don't seem to have. Are the sacred clothes some recipe you get after the endurance dungeon akin to some accessories?
MP regeneration, eh. Yeah, it seems like that'd be important. Some characters have a fairly easy time with it - like Sanae. Guess I gotta put some thought into that one, then.
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Most of the heavy armor users can't really regen MP otherwise, I think. And no... only two accessory recipes are obtained from the dungeon. You've fought the final postboss and talked to Akyu again, right? I just rememembered you get more recipes for encountering it. Don't think you need to beat it.
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oh, haha. okay. I didn't know that. got them now, saw I need a lot of materials. what's the best place to farm elemental spheres? I need like...a lot of them. also some more korindou quests, I suppose. which means I have things to do now.
I could probably beat the final boss already. the one attempt I gave it ended on its last phase with my first and last party. since I can have 3...I think I could do it now. but what would be the point of the endurance dungeon then? Silly.
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The final postboss is vastly easier then the endurance dungeon. The point of the endurance dungeon is just, well, as the "ultimate" challenge, more or less.
The accessories never really had much of a point, since if you can get them, you shouldn't have any issue with anything in the game anymore. But it's nice to actually have -some- kind of reward lying at the end, isn't it?
Elemental spheres... I don't remember what drops them. Your best bet is probably farming elementals for shards you can forge into one, though. Bottom of stage 22 to find elementals, I guess?
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Are the sacred clothes some recipe you get after the endurance dungeon akin to some accessories?
I got the names wrong. Zeus Robe --> Golden Cassock --> Sacred Clothes. Sacred Clothes is the best heavy armor and probably the best armor you can possibly get. 3 MP regen and 100 HP regen or something. You probably want to farm for Zeus' Robe twice as both Golden Cassock and Sacred Clothes are better than most of the ultimate heavy armor that you can wear.
I could probably beat the final boss already. the one attempt I gave it ended on its last phase with my first and last party. since I can have 3...I think I could do it now. but what would be the point of the endurance dungeon then? Silly.
As Serela said, endurance dungeon is just a bonus. You can easily wipe the floor out of the final boss before you can take on the endurance dungeon.
At this point I also made every really good accessory. Regalia, Kagami and Magatama, Milky Way Curtain III/IV, Gale Mantle IV, Hakurei Ribbon, Dragon King's charm, Dragon Scale, Zephyr Mantle III/IV, Border of Invulnerability and Immortality, Creator's Charm, Sun Curtain IV, Moon Curtain IV, and of course every IV and V for the stat-up accessories like Rage Choker IV/V etc. Again, anything you feel I am missing and should craft before I enter the endurance dungeon? I'd like to come fully prepared.
I forgot to mention, make sure someone uses the Yata no Kagami, that is not the same as Regalia, it has one extra resistance (star resist vs void) that Regalia does not provide. That is important, because there are enemies that use void damage.
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After getting back to it (Lakebed temple really sapped away my motivation) i'm kind of stuck at 3 maids. Any advice? I figured 1st can be pretty much murdered by Mokou with Fujiwara Volcano spam, but 2nd and 3rd give me hard time here.
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The shellfish is probably the easiest apart from Mokou simply murdering the blowfish to hell and back. She can take awhile to wear down, but she's not too tough if you've got a decent amount of support around.
That being said, I forget strategies as it's been so long... a cramped formation for the shellfish so Reimu can AoE heal the whole party all the time is good, though, plus since she charges her strong attacks in advance Reimu can protect your party; and using Fantasy Heaven if she does the double bomb refill charge is important to make sure you can take her down first. You can use the staff dispel skill (Recovery or whatever) to dispel her elemental barrier if you have a not-Laser Marisa or an elemental Nitori in this party, but Patch is probably in the other for the sake of manipulating fire.
You get to concentrate your important party members on the octopus. I'd say Alice is practically a must for this one, especially since you don't need her for either of the other fights. You -need- to keep fire land at least at a small blip on the land gauge, if not more, to stop Maelstrom from being able to Instant KO your party members. Once you deal with that, blindness, and making sure Alice can sufficiently protect your party (Use Blunt Resist accessories if you need to!), you shouldn't have a problem. IIRC her actual weakness is elec, not fire, but it's been a long time so peek at the wiki or something about that if you don't know. Nitori and Sakuya can help blitz her out and Patch isn't half bad for damage either IIRC, and Sanae in addition to Alice/Patch probably makes this fight trivial, but I also recall her evasion not being half bad, so you probably have to prepare some accuracy in some form. She shouldn't be too hard to tank it out against if you're prepared like this, though. Just make sure you don't put so many strong members in this party that you've got almost nothing good left for the shellfish.
Their names... >_>; I'm almost positive the shellfish is Kagami. The octopus is... Chi... something...? (I think it had a yuri or tori or something but that doesn't with with the Chi right) I think the blowfish might have been Akane >>;; Of course, their names aren't terribly important, but...
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Well, thanks. After some experimenting with party setups, skills, growth points and the like finally beat them.
Akame. Used Mokou, Sakuya, Youmu. Murdered by Fujiyama Volcano. Sakuya/Youmu were here just for some bonus damage.
Chihiro. Reimu, Sanae, Byakuren Satori, Aya. Pretty much killed by heavily buffed Mad Thunder (Amplifying Scroll + Wind of Prayers). The fight i had the most trouble with. Everyone had 50-75% water resistance, so i could survive most of her water attacks including her opener. Then Sanae spammed party heals and Reimu used Super Duples Barrier (phys) and Satori kept using Mad Thunder and Aya was simply here for some negligible damage.
Kagami. Alice, Patchy, Marisa Nitori. Was also quite easy. Alice spammed Marionete Parrar and Little Legion (gave her Hades Amulet to pretty much negate her dark nuke), Marisa and Patchy were throwing fire spells and Nitori chase them.
All in all was quite fun.
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Yeah, Kagami isn't so bad so you can generally just throw whatever you have together. If you use Alice for her she pretty much can't touch you, making it so Sanae/Reimu are open for moving into Chihiro's fight if desired.
And Akame isn't so bad since Mokou by herself is practically enough to blitz the fight out :V
I forgot about Mad Thunder, it's murder on the octopus. You probably should have used Byakuren's MAtk buff, though, since it's a good chunk stronger then Sanae's and you didn't really have other magic attackers. Between Super Duplex and Aya's evasion spellcard you probably could have negated most of the physicals entirely.
Regardless, if you won, it certainly worked well enough~ :D
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Omg, Iku's fight wasn't pretty. This is pure luck bullshit and gambling on rng. I've beaten her on my ~20th attempt. Without Alice. =)
But on my final attempt it was a quite enjoyable if somewhat nervewrecking boss fight.
I remember Sakuya could probably solo this battle, but I am not sure if she can outdamage her 666 Regen when ELE Land is maxed, this of course is with base auto-attack damage (without damage stacking). I think it is possible if Iku runs out of MP in moderate time. Besides Regen and Physical Barrier she has 1 Million Amperes in her moveset and can summon Oarfishes. Setup (I wish I would have keep a save before every boss...):
Claymore: Negates Stun (includes Shock thus = Instant Death), Slayer (125%) on Aquans + Hunting, Damage is 250%.
Shield: Atmospheric Shield, if Iku runs out of MP fast Lancer's Shield is better (supposing she doesn't spam summon)
Thunderclap Breastplate: 40 HP ELE Regen when ELE Land maxed
Accessory: Stormhead Amulet or Raiden Ring (25% ELE Damage Received)
Commander: Sanae, aids healing, up Sakuya's World Activation significantly
Mikazuchi's Armor requires an Electric Crystal which only first appears in the following stage, even though the player should be able to synthesize 5 Electric Shards into an Electric Crystal after having defeated 2500 monsters, this synthesis isn't available until the post-game sadly (you can obtain these as rare drops prior so is mostly pointless).
I know no one would ever bother with this since an important point was to have Satori learn Mad Thunder early in this battle, but it comes to notice when all the equipment Sakuya gets up to that point showed as if it was given to battle Iku.
I have a question about those annoying barrier-changing skeletons, i.e. Heins. What triggers barrier change and is there some sort of pattern to the element they barrier change to? I've seen them use barrier change on the first turn or never use it at all through the fight. Is it based on land levels or something else? Or is it just random? Because it's not fun to fight them. At all.
Random, is just in their moveset and is usually their first move like many enemies who also have one, but in rare occasions they will choose another one instead. They can be inflicted with Instant Death and Petrify (though this last with less success I believe).
(http://i5.minus.com/jxA04zGJaB5mm_xs.jpg) (http://i5.minus.com/ixA04zGJaB5mm.png) - (http://i5.minus.com/jEugcR27Cv1al_xs.jpg) (http://i5.minus.com/iEugcR27Cv1al.png)
(http://i5.minus.com/j5gJKCPN0rtLB_xs.jpg) (http://i5.minus.com/i5gJKCPN0rtLB.png) - (http://i5.minus.com/jM3TUpr2MW458_xs.jpg) (http://i5.minus.com/iM3TUpr2MW458.png)
There is also an advanced version with 4 times its HP and higher PDEF/MDEF.
Well, thanks. After some experimenting with party setups, skills, growth points and the like finally beat them.
Akame. Used Mokou, Sakuya, Youmu. Murdered by Fujiyama Volcano. Sakuya/Youmu were here just for some bonus damage.
Something funny from this is that damage isn't really needed, Alice can solo this battle and almost completely negate Akame's 10000 Needles damage, the highest damage skill up to that point and almost for the entire game (Alice barely takes damage above 1 digit), Akame will run out of MP and Alice is free to auto-attack her, she is unbeatable as long as she has Poison Immunity.
Of course again no one would waste Alice in this battle, even alone, she's just too valuable of a member, like Sanae later becomes.