Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: BagelEating on July 03, 2012, 02:52:33 PM
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Hi everyone. On and off lurker here, in need of some confirmation of something big enough to make me register and ask about it. I don't really want to cause a stir with this, but I guess this is a Front Page Headlines thing. So yeah.
While lurking, saw this video uploaded in NicoVideo, bearing the title and description,
【第4回東方ニコ童祭】東方Projectの商標が第三者に乗っ取られた！
みなさん以前、東方Projectの名前を神主以外の第三者
が商標登録しようとしてネットで話題になった事件覚えてますか？
「こんなの通るわけない」「神主が申し立てすれば終わる」
あの時はみんなそんな事を言っていた?
しかし神主の申し立ては却下されたようです?「ウソだろ！！
ここは日本じゃねーのかよ！」と叫んでしまいましたが「阪神優勝」事件
の前例もあるし、これが原因で神主さんが同人辞めたり二次創作禁止
にしたらどうする?orz、みなさんどう思いますか？
http://www1.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/JJ0/htmldata/H/2/3/_/9/0/0/4/423900420_001.html?1346048153
Now, Google translates the title as "Trademark of Touhou Project was taken over to a third party!", The link in the description appears to be the Patent Office's response to ZUN's "petition of opposition to registration for the trademark"
Further google-fu unearths this Kotaku Article, also in Unhelpful Japanese:
http://www.kotaku.jp/2012/07/zun.html
To summarize:
Someone other than ZUN registered Touhou Project as a trademark. Should we be concerned?
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Someone other than ZUN registered Touhou Project as a trademark. Should we be concerned?
Almost assuredly a non-issue.
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I read somewhere that someone registered the "Touhou project" with all characters from the word "project" using katakana while ZUN wrote using romaji (normal letters). For me this should not create problems
but someone does not have creativity for new names
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The full post:
Troll filed a trademark request for 東方プロジェクト, 東方Project and 上海アリス幻樂団. The last two were denied on the basis that they were already in use, and only the first one (not used by ZUN) got through. ZUN objected to the first one, but the court now decided the troll does have the right to own it.
So the real problem is that despite fully acknowledging the situation, the court still allows the troll to have 東方プロジェクト. This case is a demonstration why the copyright holders always register as many variations of their title as possible.
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ZUN has said a few things on his twitter account (https://twitter.com/#!/korindo) telling people not to worry about it. I've copied and pasted the comments here:
@korindo: 商標権の話は、今までの作品は東方プロジェクトという商品では無いと言われてしまったので、逆に言うと今まで出た作品もこれから出る作品も（二次創作含め）商標的には何ら問題ないという事です。しかし円満に解決するよう権利者本人と交渉中ですので少々お待ちを
@korindo: |-`).｡oO(実の話、商標権を維持するのに結構なお金が掛かるし、その有効範囲が極めて狭い事が判ったので余り美味しくない
@korindo: ちなみに著作権と商標権は違いますので、いくら商標権を持っていても物によっては著作権で訴えることも出来ちゃいますが??
@black_ariha: @korindo ZUNさん的には今回の件はお怒りに？
@korindo: . @black_ariha 逆に全部の作品やら何やらの名前を商標取る必要が無さそうでちょっと安心しました。
@T_teketen: @korindo もしも相手が面倒な要求してきた場合の最終手段ですよね、それ。 ところで今後、「東方Project」が商品名として使えなくなった場合の総称はどうするつもりですか！
@korindo: @T_teketen 今まで出した物は全て東方プロジェクトという商品名では無いという特許庁判断ですから、これからもきっとそういう名前の作品は出てこない気がしますｗ
纏めて言うと、自分にも二次創作にも作品に影響するようなことは無いから心配は要らないよ。でも心情的に収まり悪いところがあるだろうし本人と交渉中って話です
I can't give a word-for-word translation but he seems to think it's nothing to worry about. (Though I think the last sentence says he's talking to the person at the moment)
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Give it a week, some fanatic will probably just murder him. Either that or no one will care, still gonna have to adjust my folder names and what not and switch to Romaji for "Project", geesh.
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Someone elsewhere said they were worried this upstart could try to block doujin works from being made. :ohdear:
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No, that doesn't make any sense. Doesn't have anything to do with a guy registering a trademark as a prank.
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Welp ANN has an article on this...
Apparently he didn't just trademark "Touhou Project" but also "Team Shanghai Alice" based on the article. I thought "Team Shanghai Alice" was said to not have been approved. But ANN suggests he has trademarked both.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-07-04/touhou-project-linked-trademarks-upheld-for-non-creator
Course ZUN say he still has control over the his product since he hold copyright. And that is shouldn't affect his work or deviated works out there. And is negotiating with this person who currently hold the trademarks to these two names.
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Okay, so it's not as big a deal as it may have seemed, but I still want to know why this guy trademarked variations of the Touhou Project name. What in the world would he gain from doing this?
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Many possibilities; attention, being a jerk, gaining profit by selling it back - the last one being pretty much the same reason people register random domains in hope of selling them for lots of cash later on. I think the guy who registered pizza.com made quite a bit of money when he sold it, though there are lots of interesting examples there.
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Guh. That's sad if it's just some two-bit punk with no vested interest in the thing just trying to grab and run. >:(
Hopefully ZUN will straighten things out after they finish talking.
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There is a few probability that I can think of about this Trademark problem:
First, this Koji Kaneko man can sell the two trademarks "Touhou Project" (in which Project is in kata") and "Shanghai Alice Gengakudan" to a higher organization or company. Some of you may argue this will be impossible for that company to earn profit because "Touhou" is pretty well-known in Japan. But I think there is still a very small chance for it to happen, especially when it comes to oversea business; let's say that company start using the trademark to sell products in America when "Touhou" become more famous in U.S., like start appearing on TV. Copyrights are scary and sensitive stuff nowadays, that is the reason why ZUN didn't want to sell his game trademarks to any company.
Secondly, this Koji Kaneko guys (if he happens to be a Touhou hater) might try to find a way to ruin Touhou name under his ridiculous trademarks by selling defective stuff for example. Touhou might be popular in Japan but it is only counted in otaku-filled region like Kanto. There are places in Japan from which people are unknown of stuff like manga or anime.
Then again, the two possibility I thought of is just merely what I think, it might not be serious matter nor even going to happen in near future. However, in my opinion, copyrights or trademarks are like cancers; it is more advisable to look out for possible outcomes to counter them than ignoring them then regretting.
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Ah yes. Trademarks and copyright law. Does there exist anything more damaging than the commodification of information to the last remaining auteurs still living in our stagnant civilization? Spengler-Nietzsche-Marx tract ftw. :V
Worst case scenario, there will be a long, protracted, and frivolous legal battle and the guy gets to keep his trademarks.
Honestly though, I wouldn't worry too much about it. As we've seen from the 'Touhou going mainstream' discussion, the official materials aren't mainstream, and if ZUN still holds copyright (Totaku). However, unless ZUN buys the trademarks from him, ZUN have a hard time expanding outside of that archipelago of Chukcha's off the coast of the Great Fatherland.
So we get to be hipsters for a few more years.
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There is a few probability that I can think of about this Trademark problem:
First, this Koji Kaneko man can sell the two trademarks "Touhou Project" (in which Project is in kata") and "Shanghai Alice Gengakudan" to a higher organization or company. Some of you may argue this will be impossible for that company to earn profit because "Touhou" is pretty well-known in Japan. But I think there is still a very small chance for it to happen, especially when it comes to oversea business; let's say that company start using the trademark to sell products in America when "Touhou" become more famous in U.S., like start appearing on TV. Copyrights are scary and sensitive stuff nowadays, that is the reason why ZUN didn't want to sell his game trademarks to any company.
Secondly, this Koji Kaneko guys (if he happens to be a Touhou hater) might try to find a way to ruin Touhou name under his ridiculous trademarks by selling defective stuff for example. Touhou might be popular in Japan but it is only counted in otaku-filled region like Kanto. There are places in Japan from which people are unknown of stuff like manga or anime.
I'm pretty sure the above would fall under industrial sabotage if this Koji guy would try to do that, which I wouldn't be too shocked if there was a law protecting ZUN from that. Koji could cause problems, but then it could wind up costing the guy extreme sums of money to pay for repatriations, since it would wind up becoming a copyright violation.
What I think the most damage that could happen is him creating some other type of game or circle with the above trademarks on it, but it's have to be different enough not to violate the current trademarks that ZUN controls. So we could wind up with a silly platformer game and a shooter game with the different spellings.